Preview of Dochterman’s ‘Enhanced’ Doomsday Machine’ [UPDATED] | TrekMovie.com
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Preview of Dochterman’s ‘Enhanced’ Doomsday Machine’ [UPDATED] January 31, 2007

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Fan Productions , trackback

As reported last week, Daren Dochterman is ‘finishing’ his Trek Enhanced Doomsday Machine project. TrekMovie.com is now proud to show this exclusive premiere of the ‘eye candy’ preview.


click image to play QT movie [or click for WMV]

Just to show you how long Daren has been working on Trek art – check this out.

The Trek Enhanced "Doomsday Machine" will be available for download next week.

NOTE: that Dochtermans ‘Trek Enhanced’ is a personal project of Daren Dochterman and not to be confused with CBS’s Remastered Star Trek program.  

UPDATE: Daren has put up this preview at his site and has also written a bit on the project. On the subject of why he chose to release it now, Daren states

I realized that an arbitrary deadline of “before CBS releases theirs” would be the best way for me to get off my ass and actually get it done. This would give me a specific target… and I also reasoned that releasing it afterwards would just open the can of worms of “Well, he just waited to see what CBS would do so he could make his better, or so he could steal some good ideas…” or what-have-you. I realized that I would get criticism either way… so I decided to have a clean approach… and not be influenced by anything that CBS had done

for more see his posting at betafive.com 

Comments

1. Michael - January 31, 2007

Wow! That has to be one of the best, or THE best CGI shots of the Enterprise I’ve seen.

Very impressive.

2. Kelvington - January 31, 2007

The shuttle moving out of the back of the E looks very cool. I also like the particulate matter floating in the maw of the machine. Very, very nice.

3. Dustin - February 1, 2007

Very Cool!

4. Michael Appleton - February 1, 2007

Yowsa! I’m jazzed! Seeing this clip has convinced me. Once all three seasons are released on HD with these improvements I will be buying the complete set! Who says you can’t go home again? And look, Mom’s put in new carpeting and curtains in my room…

5. chuck - February 1, 2007

Awesome! I can’t wait for the finished product!

6. Adam Cohen - February 1, 2007

Unmitigated coolness.

Daren, bravo!

7. Yiggy - February 1, 2007

The Doomsday Machine looks awesome. CBS-D has their work cut out for them!

8. Fortyseven - February 1, 2007

Holy hell, that looks great. :D

9. Anthony Pascale - February 1, 2007

Michael.

just to be sure…this is not the ofifical Trek Remastered from CBS, but from a personal project of Daren Dochterman (the visual effects supervisor for the Directors Edition of Star Trek: The Motion Picture)

I have added that as a note above…it can be confusing that his Doomsday is coming out the same week as CBS’s. The CBS Preview Trailer should be available here later…probably Thursday afternoon.

10. Josh T. ( The Undiscovered Wrath of Spock Voyage) Kirk Esquire' - February 1, 2007

The warp nacelle dome caps are entirely too saturated in lighting, the rear balls are entirely too big, the lighting is cartoonish and animated in appearance. The impulse engine illumination is too animated, the shuttlecraft landing sequence is entirely too animated appearing. The hull plating is entirely too pronounced, the bulbous protrusion on the rear of the bridge is not off center as per bridge set, the lighting source is too pronounced resulting in lack of contrast and reality to the renders, the preview features Kirk and not Picard which immediately nullifies and negates any significance or coolness since has beens should be kept away from Star Trek, Hitch is nervewracking, I’m a bully, Matt Decker is Willard Deckers father, AP will chastise me about how I am too abrasive with my posts, Daren is still bitter at not having been awarded the task of remastering Star Trek, No TOS actors in Trek XI, George Takei is leans slightly towards the male oriented gender, J.J. Abrams hasn’t revealed a damn thing STILL about the plot for Trek XI, Nemesis still sucks, Paramount is slighting the fans and Star Trek by accelerating the schedule of remastered episodes to be released on DVD/HD.

I’d say that about covers the state of Trek currently.

11. Duane Boda - February 1, 2007

Well…its a fair guess to say that Mr. Dochtermans version will be vastly superior to anything CBS will do. I can’t help but wonder that IF those who are in charge at CBS were to contact him about a job about taking over the head responsibilities at CBS remastered….would he be able to take it and perhaps more importantly….he is interested in such a job? HIRE these immense talent. Makes me wish I had the $$ that Bill Gates had….I’d send him there myself.

12. Kevin - February 1, 2007

my god! is there a WMP version of this file? I hate QT.

13. Cyrus - February 1, 2007

Looks damn good. I had goose bumps watching the preview. Is the download going to be a complete episode? If so, are there legal issues with that?

14. dannyboy1 - February 1, 2007

My computer hates Quick Time too. I hope the download will be available in WMP….please…!!!

15. Stefanbkk - February 1, 2007

I’m in total agreement. My computer also despises QT… please please release this in a more “computer friendly” format.

Thanks :-)

16. Admiraldeem - February 1, 2007

Josh T – you miised all the WMP vs. QT complaints–but lol anyway!

17. Cervantes - February 1, 2007

Lovely work Mr. D.
…and that’s from someone who STILL prefers miniture optical work…

18. Cervantes - February 1, 2007

Actually…a COMBINATION of miniature model work AND cgi ( I admit it does achieve CERTAIN things that would be impractical otherwise, and gives terrific creative scope for certain sequences), but there’s just something about “lighting”, that filmed models convey, if done well, and at a certain scale, that CGI just still doesn’t match, no matter WHO does it, in my own opinion…personal favourite examples being 2001:A SPACE ODYSSEY (now nearly 40 years old!), Original STAR WARS trilogy, EVENT HORIZON, ST:TMP…

19. Cervantes - February 1, 2007

Oh, and come to think of it, the often overlooked Peter Hyams sequel…2010:THE YEAR WE MAKE CONTACT featured some amazingly good miniature work that CGI just wouldn’t have matched in it’s lighting. It’s just an “apples and oranges” situation looks wise I suppose.
I’m just happy that while I might not personally appreciatiate CBS Digital’s every “creative choice” on this project, that it IS being done at all, and that is therefore going to generally enthuse fans of the show, and make it more marketable for future viewers. AND it’s also great to see YOUR version of a favourite episode of mine TOO Daren!

20. Tom - February 1, 2007

That CGI model captures the studio look of the original minature more so than any other, even the CBS remastered version.

CBS is going for a different look though (no bright studio lighting), but then that creates a more “modern” look to the effects.

21. Herbert Eyes Wide Open - February 1, 2007

#10. Josh T

I’m very much a moderate kinda guy… live and let live, ya’ know? But I really take umbrage to your post… “George Takei is leans slightly towards the male oriented gender…”

Slightly?… SLIGHTLY?… I mean for God’s sake! He was inside Peter’s butt… “Helloooo” ;)

22. Herbert Eyes Wide Open - February 1, 2007

Oh and lest I forget… Very, very nice work, Herr Dochter!

Your highlighting is heavenly… Your texture is titillating… Your lighting is luscious… Your raytracing is remarkable… Your specularity is spectacular!

Can’t wait to see the whole shebang! Again, kudos and treat yourself to a Snickers… you’ve earned it, mister!

23. JB - February 1, 2007

I prefer Daren’s approach to CBS-D’s. It’s like TOS on steroids. The ships look more like lit miniatures than CG cartoons. CBS-D is clearly doing some good work in a couple episodes, but not like this.

24. Jim J - February 1, 2007

I like all of it except two things. The Doomsday Machine itself looks rather fake to me and the far off shot of the Enterprise moving at a angle away from the camera looks “plastic-like”…just as I used to say about that shot of the “E” by CBS-D when they do a course change (example: I, Mudd). Other than that, very nice…but I sound exactly the same way as I do about CBS-D. So, I call it a toss-up in my book so far. Seeing the entire work of art oughta help me along.

25. Kyle H - February 1, 2007

This is FUN.

(Isn’t “Star Trek” supposed to be fun?)

When I was a teenager, around the time ST IV and V came out, I used to make little Trek animations on my Commodore Amiga 1000 using Deluxe Video and Deluxe Paint (would have loved a Video Toaster, but that wasn’t in the parents’ budget… anyone remember this stuff?). If only…

THANK YOU, Darren Dochterman, AND CBS Digital!

26. jonboc - February 1, 2007

# 11- you said “Well…its a fair guess to say that Mr. Dochtermans version will be vastly superior to anything CBS will do.”

…not exactly fair….having well over a year to work on and fine-tune ONE episode, as you please, hardly compares to having to crank out a weekly episode, following studio mandates, in the short time CBS has…even if they do have more people. DD does exceptional work, but to compare the two is anything but fair.

27. Lao3D - February 1, 2007

Now that’s a TOS shutle bay! LOL!

There’s some great work in there, Daren. Kudos! Some of the shots of the E are less convincing than others (mostly the reverse angle ones) but that opening shot of the ship — just brilliant. Indistinguishable from hi-res model photography, truly great. Can’t wait to see the finished piece!

28. Doug - February 1, 2007

Coolness -d

29. JGG1701 - February 1, 2007

Beautiful work Mr. Daren!
Absolutely beautiful! :-)

30. Jeff thorn - February 1, 2007

That is terrific the Enterprise looks fantastic!

31. Deckard - February 1, 2007

The shuttle taking off looks very bad. It makes this sharp turn which is indicitive of not properly using keyframes in an animation slider.

The first shot of the E looks very good.

As someone who’s been in computer graphics for the last 15 years, I can say that this really needs some polishing. Is it better than CBS-D? That’s a terribly unfair comparison.

32. ZtoA - February 1, 2007

The fans definitely win in this scenario. That DDM looks awesome with the jagged edges and the appearance of wind currents on the interior… looks like a giant version of a jet engine intake… very cool interpretation.

The Doc most certainly has the prescription for fixing up DDM. I’m sure CBS-D will pull a few tricks out of their sleeve too… either way.. .we the fans win because I’m certain that this is going to spill over into new found interest in the original characters and setting and perhaps new actors and new episodes.

I think Battlestar G has created the template to bring back TOS… they can incoporate new stories and re-tell old ones at the same time.

33. Kobayashi - February 1, 2007

Thank god for the QT file. I hate wmv and all the Microsoft wannabe formats.

Kobayashi

34. Kyle H - February 1, 2007

I’m assuming the strange horizontal line on Shatner’s forehead is a shadow… not an oddly low edge of the mesh from his hairpiece.

It strikes me that in Sci-Fi in general, and maybe TOS in particular, the interaction of makeup and lighting could dictate the performance: if the actor moves off his mark, the makeup (whether alien makeup or a hairpiece) could become more obvious. I wonder if that’s why, sometimes, Shatner keeps himself so stiff. Just a thought.

(Work is slow today, so I’ve now commented TWICE).

35. Mike - February 1, 2007

I can only say – WOW!

36. Scott - February 1, 2007

Great, great work Daren. Can’t wait to see the final product.

Anyone else notice that the “lips” of the DM’s maw are translucent? Is it just me? Daren, were you intentionally codifying the probably unintentional translucency of the original effects? Am I seeing things?

Scott B. out.

37. Clinton - February 1, 2007

Looking great! I can’t wait to see both versions. Not to pit one against the other, that’s not fair (two visions, two timeframes, etc.) but jut to enjoy all the Trek goodness.

38. Rob Walley - February 1, 2007

I have really liked all of the Enterprise ship work that Mr. Dochterman has done. My personal favorite is the CGI version of the last scene from TMP of the Enterprise (refit) as it slides over and past the camera. He tells the story of how he did this on a laptop and showed it to Douglas Trumbull years later. It is every bit as good and maybe somewhat better than the original TMP shot and it is unfortunate that it wasn’t included in the Director’s Edition of TMP.
Watching this preview of Dochterman’s Doomsday Machine comes with mixed feelings. His TOS Enterprise is absolutely magnificent…but not without problems. It is gorgeously sharp and detailed and moves smoothly. But I feel that Dochterman’s lighting style is too bright, much like the original series model. Over the years, fan’s have clung to the whole story about the TOS Enterprise was coated in a “therma-coat” paint or some nonsense like that and thus the white appearance. But now we have 40 years of Star Trek to contend with and ships prior to and following the TOS era have a much more metallic look. What CBS- Digital has done is strike a peaceful in-between so that the TOS era actually fits in with the rest of the Trek Universe while remaining almost slavishly faithful to the original series. Granted, the CBS-Digital stuff still has many possibilities for improvement, but I get out of my seat for the slow panning beauty shots of the Enterprise like we saw last week in “For The World Is Hollow.” Fans like myself who were there in the sixties really love shots like that that really show off how big and majestic our first love (the TOS Enterprise) can be.
But what really bothers me when seeing this preview is seeing Dochterman’s shuttlebay on the same week that CBS-Digital released their reworked shuttlebay. CBS-Digital’s is simply better. More important, it solves 40 years of the problem of disproportion AND is beautifully reminds one of the shuttlebay scene from Star Trek V. Dochterman’s looks…hardly different from the original episode and restores the proportion problems.
The main thing for everyone to remember is that whichever version you prefer, this is a very good time for STAR TREK, and for that we should all rejoice!!!

39. Dip Thong - February 1, 2007

Daren,

You need to let it go, man. Seriously.

Let. It. Go.

You didn’t get the job. That sucks, but it’s just the way it is. Putting out your own version of Remastered (of Enhanced or whatever you want to call it) is now just about ego. It’s sad. It’s just a petty way of saying, “See? CBS made a BIG mistake by not hiring me because my version is better.”

And that’s unprofessional.

It DOESN’T MATTER if your version is better (which is simply a matter of taste anyway) or if CBS made a mistake (which is pointless to debate). I understand your disappointment and bitterness. I do. I’ve been there myself. But continuing on only reflects poorly on you as an artist and a professional. Some fans might give you props (and your talent is not in doubt) but it’s doing a disservice to the very thing you claim to love: Star Trek. Like it or not, CBS-D is doing the official versions. While it’s fine to debate their efforts and critique their work, releasing alternative versions is insulting to the artists who DID get the gig. Imagine some actor who was passed over for the role of Kirk editing himself into all the Trek footage to replace Shatner. Like you, he could simply claim he’s offering a “what if?” version just for fun. But the reality is that the motivation is bitterness and disappointment. The underlying message is, “See? It would’ve been soooo much better if I was the Captain!” That would be sad. And that’s exactly what I thought when I saw your clip. It’s one thing to show people your pitch reel and say, “This is what I showed them and this is what they rejected.” That’s fine. That’s just presenting history.

But continuing on is something else entirely.

Now you’re attempting to steal CBS-D’s thunder. Now you’re attempting to prove them wrong. And what it does is establish a split between the fans, with people debating the merits of “official version” vs. “Daren’s version”. How does that sort of animosity help Star Trek, the thing you claim to love and want to honor?

It doesn’t.

It’s not about fun. It’s not about the fans. It’s not about your love of Trek. It’s about you and your ego.

You need to go on and do something else. Adults accept their defeats and look to the next thing. When a batter strikes out, he sits his ass down in the dugout and waits for his next at-bat. Arguing with the ump about blowing the call is pointless. And telling the fans that the ump made a mistake ain’t going to change the outcome. It just makes the batter look like a sore loser.

Don’t be a sore loser. Accept your defeat gratuitously and congratulate CBS-D on their efforts.

And then walk away.

The world will go on without your version.

40. Father Rob - February 1, 2007

I can’t believe this crap that is being shelled out on us fans. I mean, come on…

Did Daren even watch the show? Yellow phaser beams? Name me one episode where yellow was the color of a phaser beam! And what is up with the nacelle placement? They are too far forward! The pylons are too tall, they join the nacelles too far back… and what is with the nuTrek blue all over the warp engines? And far from the colorless deflector that we have previously had, we now have a red one… red! The primary hull is too thick, there are only three inboard grilles on the pylons – there should be four if this is supposed to be the production model… and just when did the Enterprise ever have the inboard nacelle with a decal? Window placement is all wrong, the planet looks cartoonish, and outer space is unconvincing… I mean, it looks like something a seven year old did!

(Pauses… reviews date… October 1974… reviews signature… Daren Ross Dochterman, age 7…)

Holy crap! That’s great stuff! ;)

All kidding aside, I remember being in the same boat as Daren when I was seven, and my warp nacelles had no taper, my dorsal had a uniform width, and my saucer was too darned flat. But the one thing I remember so much about being seven was just how much I loved Star Trek.

While I may take issue with several parts of Daren’s interpretation, I see the love he put into both TMP:DE and now this redux of TDM. Thanks, Daren, for showing us all what a fan can do… even if you have to give our favorite lady big balls in the process ;)

Rob+

41. Father Rob - February 1, 2007

#39 –

I don’t see the first bit of disrespect in what Daren is doing. If Leslie Neilsen or Jack Lord wanted to release their own version of TOS, I will admit that I’d head online to give it a download.

People have been working on ‘remastering’ TDM for years now. It is one of the greatest TOS episodes, and everyone has their own take. I will be very interested to see Daren’s when it is fully avaliable.

If the artists who are working on the ‘authorized’ version want to put Daren to shame, well, then it means they need to step up what they are doing. Otherwise, IMO, it’s all fair game – provided Daren isn’t making a profit.

If I could, i would change countless things about TOS… I would refilm the entire series… but that doesn’t take away my love for what came before.

Rob+

42. Picardsucks - February 1, 2007

F- YEAH!!!!!!!

43. Dip Thong - February 1, 2007

#41 –

Rob, this difference comes in the fact that you’re not a professional who attempted to get a job refilming the series and Daren is. I have NO problem with FANS making their own versions and messing around. They’re amateurs. Daren is not. And not only is he not an amateur, he’s not just an ordinary fan. Not anymore. He actually has a Trek resume and pitched THIS VERY CONCEPT. And his version was rejected. The “it’s all in good fun” argument no longer applies in his case because he attempted to do it professionally and failed. And as a professional he should accept his defeat and let the people who DID win do their thing without being an armchair quarterback. That’s why his version IS an insult while yours is not.

44. ZtoA - February 1, 2007

I have no problem with Doc doing this at all… and I don’t intend to view it as his version vs. their version… even if they were each armed with the same software and same rendering farms and same deadlines… each team would end up showing two different interpretations of the same sfx shots… I think it’s cool that we live in an age where we can breathe new life into old shows and relive our childhood… wonder and all.

Like Darren… I was constantly drawing the Big E on whatever was in front of me and was scolded by teachers for doing so… I turned one text book into a animated flip-book with the E cruising across the bottom of the page. If I had the talent and the hardware… I’d be submitting alternate sfx shots for the fans to enjoy.

ENJOY THE SHOW(S)!! That’s why they were made in the first place.

45. CmdrR - February 1, 2007

Maintaining my hard won reputation as a master of focusing on the obscure…
What the heck is Decker’s insignia supposed to be? Did the Planet killing waffle cone attack during breakfast? Is that a bagle Decker was eating that got stuck on his tunic? Originally, all star ship crews were supposed to have unique designs, but this looks like a clover leaf on the freeway. Whassup?

And now, back to our regularly scheduled reality…

46. CmdrR - February 1, 2007

bagel — I’m also the master of crappy spelling

47. Commodore Z - February 1, 2007

Daren’s timing does seem a lot like sour grapes.

48. Commodore Z - February 1, 2007

His Enterprise looks pretty good, though. Almost as good as CBS-D’s.

49. steve623 - February 1, 2007

#47 – exactly what i was thinking

50. T Negative - February 1, 2007

I think Daren’s work is only making CBS digital’s work better, and that, IMO is commendable.

Great Job with the trailer, your first shot of the E is amazing! As are the shots of the Constellation. I will enjoy watching your version and CBS’s

51. Nelson - February 1, 2007

Pretty neat! Thanks for the preview!

I like the very first glimpse of the Enterprise, I like the texture mapping and hull color and even the lighting! It’s a stylistic choice. As mentioned, the floating bits of rock and planet chunks in the maw of the machine was a great touch. The shuttle launch did look a bit in complete, or lacking it smooth motion. Look forward to seeing the whole thing, good stuff!

What struck me was Daren doesn’t have access to a high definition remastered live action footage CBS has. So his live action will look like the DVD’s with the colors a bit off. Not a problem as we should all understand that difference.

This is all fun and great for the fans. As long as Paramount doesn’t have any issues here, I think it’s fine and dandy to see an alternative version of TDM!

52. Greg - February 1, 2007

Nice work, but I prefer the look that the CBS team have achieved. DD’s latest is not his best work.

53. Herbert Eyes Wide Open - February 1, 2007

#45. CmdrR

Chuckles :) My guess is some Wardrobe Assistant had extra piping trim and said, “Yeah, this’ll do. It’s just a wacky outer space show… I mean, it’s not like somebody will notice or care fifty years from now.”

Oooops, almost right!

On to the Doomsday Debate…

As a fan I’m happy to be offered any eye-candy that has Star Trek on the wrapper. If I don’t like it I’ll spit it out. If I do like it… well, I’ll sit back, enjoy and savour the flavor.

Funny thing about people’s tastes… some will say it’s sour… some will say it’s sweet… and of course, some will say it was okay but I’m gonna stay with the candy I like. Don’t need the extra calories and all. ;) Nobody’s wrong.

It does bother me a bit though, when someone says, “This is the OFFICIAL candy. And if YOU’VE made candy before you should stop because it is an insult to the OFFICIAL candy-makers.”

My guess is the OFFICIAL candy-makers are secure in their abilities to make THEIR candy as they should be (’cause their’s is mighty fine tastin’ candy.) Further, because the OFFICIAL candy-makers have a great love for candy in general, I would imagine it is always pleasant to see what confectionary treats other candy-makers come up with.

God, I really want a Snickers…

54. Screen Rant - Movie and TV Commentary - February 1, 2007

What the heck is with you people. This was a labor of love for this guy and the result looks amazing (I’ve seen some of his other test clips). The Enterprise looks like it came out of one of the movies in the scene above and looks awesome.

I think that it was probably his efforts in pitching the idea to the studio and online reaction to his work that gave them the kick in the pants to do the updated version. If you ask me it sucks that they didn’t involve him in the re-working of the series.

Having said that, I think that the ship version that was created by Paramount “fits in” to the episodes better. Although everything is updated and much more clear, the overall look matches the rest of the cinematography of the episodes better. And I have to say that I really do prefer the images of the shuttlebay that were releaseed by Paramount to what was shown above.

Still, I give huge props to Daren for his work!!!

Vic

55. Ralph F - February 1, 2007

Quicktime rules, WMP drools. ;)

Love the preview; competition is always healthy. Looking forward to the side-by-side-by-side comparisons on the episode.

56. Stanky McFibberich - February 1, 2007

OK, I will have to come out of retirement for this one. First, I think Mr. Docterman’s preview looks very good. I have no problem with having the two versions, because then I can enjoy them both, as I know I will. How can I not, with William Windom’s overacting (completely appropriate for the episode)?
What does continually bother me as I read some of the comments, is that people find it necessary to trample on one version in support of another. That would apply to this issue as well as many others. I may have even been guilty of that on occasion in the past, but the way I feel now is that we should be happy to have these “new toys to play with.” Several others have made my same point in different ways, but let’s all just look forward to Double Doomsday!
I did download The Corbomite Maneuver from I-Tunes and it looks great. Much better than my basic cable vhs recording. The CBS ship looks much brighter and realistic viewing it on the computer than it does on my standard defintion TV, so I assume that would apply to the HD version as well. It looks a lot less battleship gray on the monitor than on the TV. I was quite impressed.

57. Scott - February 1, 2007

As someone who makes his living in the creative arts field, I completely understand Daren’s need to finish what he started. I applaud him for that.

I can’t speak for Daren, but his timing seems to me to be more a case of “if I don’t finish it before their version comes out, I probably never will” rather than a case of sour grapes, as others claim. He did this for the love of the show. Anyone who’s ever pieced a costume together, crafted a Trek prop from scratch, written a spec script for a Trek show, or who has an unpublished Trek novel in a box in their basement can relate to what Daren has created, and his need to see it through.

As far as comparisons, that’s inevitable and all well and good. In fact, I imagine two versions of this fan-favorite episode premiering together will only increase viewership of the “official” version — so CBS-D shouldn’t be too unhappy about that!

Scott B. out.

58. Jeff Bond - February 1, 2007

I echo the above comment…it’s one thing to debate the merits of different approaches, which on message boards INEVITABLY devolves into angry warring camps. It’s another to start trashing an artist personally, telling him what to do with his life and psychoanalyzing him. Are we going to start telling Dave Rossi what he should do with his life? The presumption of some of these posts is amazing…given the tone established I’m sure Daren was aware of what he was letting himself in for by doing this but again, this is not a competitive product–it is free and it will be seen by a tiny fraction of the viewers of the CBS version (or maybe we all imagine that this message board represents the entire viewing audience of Trek Remastered…). If Daren wants to do this, which he clearly does, for God’s sake let him–man, talk about someone needing to ‘let it go’…in a couple of weeks we’ll have all seen both versions of “Doomsday” and this national controversy will be behind us…

59. Jim G. - February 1, 2007

WHOA! The Enterprise looks awesome, not sooo dark. Dochterman is the man!

60. Spockariffic - February 1, 2007

Looking at the shuttle bay shots from CBS-D vs Daren’s, I’ve got to say CBS-D has nailed it. It’s like a real ship! The way they’re doing it just brings Star Trek alive for me in a way I’ve never seen!

I appreciate Daren’s talent, but his stuff is, I don’t know, too animated looking or something. His is evocative of what I remember as a 7 year old as well. Now to some that’s a fine walk down memory lane, (and fun to see) but if I want to go down memory lane, I’ll watch the original series!

Okuda’s team and CBS-D have given us an evolution of sorts. That shuttle sequence from Babel just makes my heart flutter. While Daren’s is fun in a quaint, kitchy kind of way, CBS-D is doing what I’d always hoped Star Trek could be. I wish their work wasn’t so uneven, but the shows that are good are REALLY good and I hope they reduce me to quivering slag with their Doomsday Machine!

61. Dip Thong - February 1, 2007

#53 – Herbert “It does bother me a bit though, when someone says, “This is the OFFICIAL candy. And if YOU’VE made candy before you should stop because it is an insult to the OFFICIAL candy-makers.”

Here’s the problem with your anology: it’s not just that Daren has “made candy”, it’s that he tried to get hired by the candy company to make a SPECIFIC type of candy and was turned down. The specific candy in this case is Trek Remastered and Daren’s services were declined. Fair or unfair, that’s what happened. Instead of accepting this decision, however, Daren has decided to ignore that decision and make the same candy anyway in order to show that his approach to making that candy is tastier and sweeter. Whether he’s right or not isn’t the issue. The issue is that while his candy might be sweet, his motivation is sour. And as a professional he’s hurting his own chances of working on the franchise he loves ever again by offering up a competing version of the same specifc product.

Whether he intends it or not, Daren’s version serves to diminish the impact of CBS-D’s work. He’s intentionally attempting to draw some attention away from their efforts and set up a comparison. Even in the spirit of “harmless fun”, the outcome (as we’ve seen) is to split the audience into rival camps. That doesn’t help to make Trek “fun”.

Here’s the bottom line, CBS-D won the contract for the show. Period. And as the winner, they should be afforded the professional respect to present their hard work without the rejected artist (Daren) attempting to draw away their audience (regardless of how small), diminish their work or present an alternative.

#54 – Screen Rant “This was a labor of love for this guy and the result looks amazing (I’ve seen some of his other test clips).”

I’m not questioning Daren’s love for the show. Or his talent. Or his labor. I question his motivation based on the timing and the fact that he is doing something for which he’s already been rejected. Again, showing us his pitch reel is VERY different from going ahead and finishing the entire episode to compete with CBS-D’s version. It’s a competition Daren already lost but he’s apparently unwilling to accept.

#56 – Stanky “What does continually bother me as I read some of the comments, is that people find it necessary to trample on one version in support of another.”

An excellent point and the prcise reason why I think Daren is doing himself and Trek fandom a disservice by releasing his version. Even under the BEST scenario, there are still going to be those that feel the need to choose sides and dimish one version in favor of the other. Notice I’m not saying CBS-D’s version IS better. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that, like it or not, they’ve got the job. Daren doesn’t. And he should respect the guys who WON by letting them present their work without offering up a rival version for comparison. He’d expect the same courtesy.

Put yourself in CBS-D’s shoes. Your’re an artist. You bid for a job. You won the job fair and square. Now, after months of hard work, you’re ready to show your efforts to the world — and suddenly the guy you beat out for the job is going to display HIS version at the same time. He claims it’s all in “good fun” but regardless he’s stealing some of your thunder and making audiences view your work from a perspective never intended. You’d be pissed. And rightly so.

62. diabolik - February 1, 2007

I enjoy seeing Daren’s work, because I’m in love with the show just like he is, and want to see upgraded versions of the ship more than anything, even if it’s not an official source, it’s great to see.

But if I were the CBS people I’d be a little (or a lot) put off because of the unfair pressure and comparision that they are now subject to. If Daren was hot to finish it, he should have at least waited until well beyond the airing of the the official version, just to avoid stealing their thunder… as a professional courtesy.

63. diabolik - February 1, 2007

I enjoy seeing Daren’s work, because I’m in love with the show just like he is, and want to see upgraded versions of the ship more than anything, even if it’s not an official source, it’s great to see.

But if I were the CBS people I’d be a little (or a lot) put off because of the unfair pressure and comparision that they are now subject to. If Daren was hot to finish it, he should have at least waited until well beyond the airing of the the official version to releas it…. just to avoid stealing their thunder, as a professional courtesy.

64. diabolik - February 1, 2007

And I didn’t mean to post that twice.

65. Ron Jon - February 1, 2007

Daren’s work is perfectly fine, although I like CBS-D’s better. I can’t see it bothering the CBS-D people – I’d be surprised if they took notice at all.

66. Anthony Pascale - February 1, 2007

what jeff bond said is (as usual) correct

dip thong…tone it down or be removed. The guys at CBS are friends with Daren and they do not need you to defend them…they are big boys (and girls)

67. Ron Jon - February 1, 2007

I don’t think Daren’s work is “unfair pressure” to CBS. Anthony’s right – they are big boys and girls whose work obviously doesn’t need defending.

I do think it’s pretty tacky that Daren’s trying to ride their coat tails for his personal glory.

68. Dip Thong - February 1, 2007

#57 – Scott “I can’t speak for Daren, but his timing seems to me to be more a case of “if I don’t finish it before their version comes out, I probably never will” rather than a case of sour grapes, as others claim.”

Well, therein lies the problem. None of us know Daren’s motivations for sure, only Daren does. Maybe he does simply want to “finish what he started”. Who knows??? What we DO know is that by choosing to release his version at this time he’s intentionally opening up a can of worms. He’s inviting a direct comparison between his work and CBS-D’s. Maybe he intends this comparison to be fun, maybe his motivations are completely sinister. I don’t know. The point is that the comparison itself, based on WHO Daren is and the HISTORY of his rejection from the project, is unneeded and unwelcome. Daren should afford the CBS-D team the courtesy of presenting their work to the audience as they’ve been contracted to do with out the distraction of a rival version (regardless of how well intentioned that version may be).

Scott – “He did this for the love of the show. Anyone who’s ever pieced a costume together, crafted a Trek prop from scratch, written a spec script for a Trek show, or who has an unpublished Trek novel in a box in their basement can relate to what Daren has created, and his need to see it through.”

Daren is not an ordinary fan making an amatuer fan film. The very nature of his Trek resume and the FACT that he WANTED to do Remastered and was REJECTED means that his efforts cannot be viewed in the same light as any other amateur fan film. Yeah, I understand his creative need. But as a working professional he should know that sometimes you have to suck it up and take a step back. Otherwise people will inevitably question whether that “need” is just ego.

#58 – Jeff Bond “It’s another to start trashing an artist personally, telling him what to do with his life and psychoanalyzing him. ”

Let me clear. I’m not saying Daren is a bad person. I’m sure he’s a nice guy. I LIKE his work. And I’d LOVE to see him work on Star Trek again in some future capacity. Suggesting he should back off from releasing a competing version of TDM is not “telling him what to do with his life.” It’s point out a professional mistake — one that could very well HURT his chances of working on Trek again.

The bottom line is that Daren is the one who is driving this controversy by going forward with a project he’s already been rejected for. If Daren were augmenting and remastering Star Trek V, for example, I’d applaud his efforts! It’s because he’s chosen to do a show currently in production that he was declined a role and his releasing his version at the same time as the official version that HE is inviting questions about his motivations.

69. Gary - February 1, 2007

I like the clip. In fact, I think I soiled my pants….

70. Anthony Pascale - February 1, 2007

WMV file has been added

71. Dip Thong - February 1, 2007

Anthony, Am I being rude to anyone here? I’ve been very compllimentary of Daren and his work. I’ve been rude to no one. I think my points are legitimate. You don’t have to agree with them, but if so how about a discussion? Isn’t that the point?

72. diabolik - February 1, 2007

Well, whether or not it’s unfair to the CBS crew for Daren to release it without waiting till after the official version runs, we now have more pretty shots of the ship to enjoy that we wouldn’t have before. So we fans are winning in any event.

Because new improved views of the Big E are always desirable, whereever they come from.

73. John N. - February 1, 2007

Help… I’m trapped in the spam filter!!!! :(

74. Michael Hall - February 1, 2007

The reel clearly demonstrates Mr. Dochterman’s enormous talent and love for this franchise. The claim that the release of this footage to the ultimately miniscule number of people who will every choose to view it as somehow damaging to the “official” version is absurd on its face. As to motivation, I have have seen nothing on his website suggesting bitterness or a need to “get back” at anyone. His take on CBS-D’s work, almost entirely critical at first, has become much more positive as the effects themselves have improved–no one reading his posts, even should they disagree, could characterize his views as arbitrary or unfair, let alone the product of jealousy over losing the opportunity to do the work himself.

Dochterman has stated that given the amount of time he had invested in this project he felt compelled to see it through to fruition, something any serious artist or craftsman can understand. He also claims to have no hard feelings towards Paramount or CBS-D at how things worked out. Astoundingly, rather than psychoanalyze him, some of us simply choose to take him at his word.

75. John N. - February 1, 2007

Hooray for the webmaster!

A hero the likes of you has not been seen since the original James R. Kirk! ;)

76. THEETrekMaster - February 1, 2007

Beautiful, beautiful work Daren!!!!!

That first shot of the Enterprise is breathtaking…and everything else that follows is just as incredible.

You are da MAN!!!!

No pissing contest…but damn…Daren, your work blows theirs away. THAT is the Enterprise!

TTM

77. Herbert Eyes Wide Open - February 1, 2007

#61. Dip Thong

Not to be contentious…

Daren pitched his candy to the candy company before the candy company even considered making that SPECIFIC candy. The candy company wasn’t even interested in making that SPECIFIC candy.

So, even though the candy company, years later, thought, “We should make this candy now.” and they found some very talented candy-makers to make their candy, Daren, as an exalted candy-maker himself, should be free and encouraged to make the candy he originally wanted.

And, again, as clearly exhibited in this thread, the notion that “his approach to making that candy is tastier and sweeter” is ultimately decided upon by the taster… you.

As far as “hurting his own chances of working on the franchise he loves ever again”… I suspected, and as Anthony pointed out, Daren and the candy-makers at CBS-D are amigos.

Even though I’ve enjoyed your posts in the past, this last flurry from you has had a bit of a bite. So, here’s what we should do… I’m gonna post this… go get a Snickers and throw it in the freezer… you should do the same… wait a couple of hours… take that scrumptious bad-boy out and snap a piece off and ENJOY!… and then we’ll come back and post again… I mean, it could be your blood-sugar’s a hair off… A Snickers always makes me feel a little better ;)

78. Dr. Image - February 1, 2007

I eagerly am looking forward to Daren’s finished DDM, but with some reservations.
Knowing all the structural inaccuracies and growing pains the CBS-E has gone through should have TAUGHT him to not make the same, or similar, mistakes. (Nacelle ball proportions, etc.)
He’s so close to the visual style of TOS, any obvious mistakes depicting the Enterprise at this point would be tragic.
PLEASE, Daren, carefully look over your fine work before you release it- or else you will feel the wrath of Trek history forever.

79. Paul - February 1, 2007

Daren…your work is awesome…as usual. Really looking forward to seeing the whole thing.

I’m also looking forward to seeing CBS’s interpretation. It should prove interesting, if not just downright entertaining for all us fans.

As for the timing of your release, I’m just glad that you decided to complete the project at all!

We Trek fans are one lucky group…IMHO.

Cheers!

80. Martin Pollard - February 1, 2007

#71 – Thing is, Dip Thong, that you’ve gone far beyond “discussion” territory, and are now in the land of “pissing in the sandbox so that no one has a good time.”

You’ve made your point. You don’t agree with what DRD is doing. Fine, that’s your prerogative. We’ve seen your point. We understand your point. Most of us don’t agee with your point; some of us do. Again, fine.

Continuing to argue your point against an audience that is clearly hostile towards you (or, more specifically, your POV and your increasingly argumentative tone) is going to accomplish nothing good, and in fact is likely to generate even more hostility and ill will. My advice would be to show a little class and take your own advice: Let. it. Go.

81. John N. - February 1, 2007

I don’t want to get caught up in the fray that “Dip Thong” is engaged in, though I do defend his right to say it. He’s been articulate in each point that he has made, and manage to steer clear of being rude or offensive. I too think that the timing could be better…

I definitely agree with one thing that “Dip Thong” said… I would rather see Daren put his fine talents towards fixing up Trek V than to complete an episode of TOS that CBS-D is just about to show anyway.

However, I realize that would be a much larger project, and I have no idea if Daren would even be interested in doing it.

82. Dip Thong - February 1, 2007

Whether the CBS-D staff takes offense to Daren’s efforts is one small part of my issue with this scenario. As Jeff Bond said, “different approaches… INEVITABLY devolves into angry warring camps.” Very true. I don’t see that as the fans “winning” anything.

I’m not choosing sides or saying one artistic approach is better than the other. I just question why Daren — who certainly knows the inevitable will happen — feels the need to light the match under the gasoline.

And I also understand that some people here are Daren’s friends and feel they need to defend him. But he’s a “big boy”. He surely knew what his decision would mean and debating that decision was inevitable.

83. Stu from the UK - February 1, 2007

This is a million times better than the work we’ve seen from the Trek Remastered people.

I can’t wait to see it all.

84. Dip Thong - February 1, 2007

#80 – Martin

I’m not attempting to “piss in the sandbox” as you put it. People respond, bring up counter arguments, I respond, etc. I’ve been cordial to everyone even when disagreeing.

What’s true is that the “fray”, including everyone’s posts in response, get attributed to me as the one making the original post. So I’m credited (or damned) for a “tone” that includes comments by a multitude of people.

85. John N. - February 1, 2007

#83 – Stu

A million times better? Am I the only guy who looks at the comparison between Daren’s hangar and CBS-D’s hanger and says… hey… maybe CBS-D is getting the bum wrap from all the people who blindly love Mr. Dochterman’s work?

Never used imageshack before, but this unfair comparison compelled me to do so. Please look at the following and tell me that Daren’s work is a million times better:

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/9265/cbdddcomparisonvg5.jpg

86. Deckard - February 1, 2007

#83 – A MILLION times better? Yes, the E looks great, but please take a closer look at that shuttle takeoff. It’s horrendous. Don’t disrespect CBS-D, they’re doing a hell of a good job, and listening to people like us that just want it done right.

87. Dip Thong - February 1, 2007

#74 – Michael Hall “The claim that the release of this footage to the ultimately miniscule number of people who will every choose to view it as somehow damaging to the “official” version is absurd on its face.”

Hopefully, I’ve illustrated a few ways that it is damaging. Maybe not to a degree you find critical, but it’s there nonetheless. If nothing else, the fact that Daren’s version provides amunition for fans willing/perhaps hoping to discredit CBS-D’s work (and we’ve all seen the comments) is example enough.

I would also question the idea that none of this is a big deal because of Daren’s “miniscule” audience. Daren gets a lot of hits and once on YouTube he’d get even more. His work is often times MISTAKEN for being offical. Given Trek Remastered’s late night time slot in some markets its quite possible that as many people will see Daren’s as the official version.

Michael Hall — “As to motivation, I have have seen nothing on his website suggesting bitterness or a need to “get back” at anyone.”

I wouldn’t expect a “I’m angry and bitter” statement on his site either. I’m not even saying with certainty he IS angry and bitter. But I’m suggesting it’s a possibility. And since he’s the one deciding to air his version when he is, HE’s the one opening up the discussion of that possibility. I’m not the first one to suggest “sour grapes” and I’m not the only one considering if this may be the case.

88. diabolik - February 1, 2007

Deckard,

That side-by-side does show the CBS version of the shuttle landing and bay to be far superior in that area.

89. Dr. Image - February 1, 2007

That’s why I think Daren should be very careful about his final release before going to the mat with CBS-D. (Ironic, since it used to be the other way around!)

90. Anthony Pascale - February 1, 2007

Dip thong..you keep insinuating things that are just flat out not true. Daren is not angry, bitter, etc. So stop suggesting he is

you are simply wrong…I suggest you move on to another thread

91. John N. - February 1, 2007

#90 – Anthony

I believe you about Daren… but since you seem to have the inside scoop, can you explain his motivations for releasing it the same week as CBS-D if it’s not in fact to steal some thunder?

92. Rob Walley - February 1, 2007

I am really enjoying this. Not since the 70s have I participated in such a “spirited” discussion of “what is best for STAR TREK” or better still “what is the best STAR TREK.”

As I have said in a previous post, this is a great time for STAR TREK and we are all winners.

For better or worse, DipThong brings up some very valid points to consider. And I do not think he is being mean spirited (maybe too devensive, but not mean spirited) but the moderator is calling entirely too much attention to the comments, and thus fueling the direction this discussion is moving in.

Who thought that in 2007 we would be anxiously awaiting TWO new versions of the Doomsday Machine! Wow!

(Anthony, I didn’t say anything disrespectful or incite any bad feelings here so please lay off!)

93. Vifx Twokay - February 1, 2007

Such a better understanding of the OS’s color, lighting and texture than the “official” team has. Darren you was robbed…

94. Herbert Eyes Wide Open - February 1, 2007

#90. Anthony Pascale

Hey Anthony,

I won’t argue that Dip thong came on too strong and, as you aptly pointed out, many of the assertions were unfounded and incorrect.

But… when you tell one of your posters to move along… There’s a fatal feeling of exclusion that is implied. Dip Thong’s tone was not solely Dip Thong’s. And Dip Thong, no matter how wrong I think he/she may be, never ventured into that expletive hot button area.

The reason I love this site is oft times there is an extreme position taken by someone… *cough* Josh T, *ahem* ;) and the subsequent dialogue makes for compelling, illuminating, enlightening, vitriolic and, yes, even cathartic reading.

However, in the end there is this strange equilibrium that occurs… as if people get to vent, explore, rant, cajole, irritate, laugh and bond all together about this crazy show that they all love.

Don’t misunderstand me… I’m not wagging my finger at you… you are the Boss… the Big Cheese… the biggest Snicker bar on the block… and we owe you a debt of enormous gratitude for allowing us this forum…

But I just hate to see anyone feel like they’re not welcome. If the foregoing bounces me… it’s been a pleasure.

And this has nothing to do with not being invited to your Christmas party or you pooh-poohing my gift of wine. :)

95. New Horizon - February 1, 2007

Why shouldn’t Daren release his before CBS…or at the same time? He planted the seed years ago, and I seriously doubt this would have happened had the seed not been planted in the minds of those in charge. CBS-D have quite a few episodes under their belt now….it’s not like Daren has been enhancing every episode that CBS D remastered and then releasing them head to head all this time. lol Lighten the hell up folks. The guy has earned the right to strut his stuff for this episode. :)

96. Stu from the UK - February 1, 2007

@ post 85. John N

Sorry John, but I actually looked at the CBS hanger before I watched Darrens preview here and thought the CBS hanger looked awful. It looks like video game CG from 2001.

Trek Remastered haven’t really stepped up their Enterprise work like they promised IMO. Just look at the recent two episodes.

97. Kev - February 1, 2007

Briefly, this short just nailed it; that’s got not only the look, but the feel of the show. Just like the model; as close as it gets without plywood & plastic. Bravo.

98. Dip Thong - February 1, 2007

Anthony, I mean no disrespect to you or Daren. I appreciate that you have the luxury to know Daren’s motivations while I do not. He’s your friend while I can only speculate based on people’s decisions, actions, history, etc. You have the right to flatly declare I’m “wrong” (and I might be) and shut down the discussion, but I fear the message you’re sending is that people are free to discuss issues respectfully — as long as you agree.

99. John N. - February 1, 2007

#96 – Stu

I suspect that our difference in opinion comes from our difference in design preference. You seem to like the 1960’s model look, which Daren has faithfully reproduced, complete with no human beings, etc.

I prefer a step towards realism, such as the delegates in the windows. I think that it’s unfair at this point to say that CBS-D’s looks like a video game compared to Daren’s, because you got to see Daren’s in motion, and CBS-D’s from a still.

Personally, I think that Draen’s work in this clip looked very CG, much more than in his previous work, and I’m surprised that he’s getting such a free pass in this thread…. but as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

#97 – Kev

I agree… the shuttle hangar looks very much like the original model… which is exactly why I think I’ll prefer the work of CBS-D’s when we get to see it in motion.

But again… everyone has their own favourite approach to visual design.

100. steve623 - February 1, 2007

I echo the question posed in post #91. I can certainly appreciate the man setting himself a deadline of finishing his version the same week the CBS people finish theirs, or not finish it at all. But it does not follow that means it also has to be released for public comment and consumption the same week. Doing so certainly gives the impression of trying to deliberately make it a head-to-head “whose version is better” situation, whether that’s the intent or not. Releasing it a month or even a week later would avoid any appearance of thunder-stealing and still get the product seen by the same people. Dip Thong and others may be completely wrong in their assumptions, but I don’t think its a riduclously invalid conclusion to reach, and is certainly not an improper question to ask. Given the history we’ve all been made privy to, the timing simply begs the question – why go head to head in the same week?

101. Spockariffic - February 1, 2007

Well this is the fundamental difference between both approaches.

Daren is using the color scheme and “model feel” and exact set replications (ie the shuttle bay scene) to bring the original series into the future while maintaining its quaint, oversaturated, “this is called ‘color television’ folks” appeal.

CBS-D is producing a more realistic universe, where ships are made of metal alloys and not colored in baby blues, etc.

Lets just sit back and enjoy it all.

IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC IDIC

102. Rob Walley - February 1, 2007

To #101
Amen!

103. John N. - February 1, 2007

#100 – steve623

That was my thinking exactly… particulary your point about the difference between completing the work and broadcasting the work.

104. Herbert Eyes Wide Open - February 1, 2007

Hey Dip Thong,

How’s the Snickers?

105. Dennis Bailey - February 1, 2007

#68:”Well, therein lies the problem. None of us know Daren’s motivations for sure, only Daren does. Maybe he does simply want to “finish what he started”. Who knows???”

And yet you’ve characterized this project at some length as an outgrowth of immaturity, bitterness, “sour grapes” and so forth.

This situation simply doesn’t merit being taken so seriously. I wish Professor Moriarity was releasing his version of “Doomsday Machine” this week too. I wish “Vektor” would do an entire version of “Doomsday Machine” along the lines of the test clips he released quite a while ago.

Warhol remarked that in the future everyone would be famous for fifteen minutes. I think everyone should release their own version of “Star Trek” in the next fifteen minutes. :lol:

Can’t wait to see the preview for CBS-D’s version, BTW. I expect it’ll be startling and different and very intriguing (not to mention controversial and villified in some quarters).

106. Cafe 5 - February 1, 2007

The visuals that Daren came up with are very good. The original shots were
at the time fun to watch but due to the passing of time and the budgetary
constraints under which the shows were produced, have become very
dated. If Daren wishes to produce these works for his own reasons he has that right. Passion in what we do and who we are is very rare. This is who
Daren is a person with a passion. This is a good thing. No one has the
right to tell you you can’t do something. You have to enjoy what you do and
who you are in order to get through this adventure we live in. More power to
you Daren. Its too bad that this kind of motivation isn’t contagious.

107. Doug - February 1, 2007

re 39….

yo dip thong… i’m sorry, but i don’t think you get why he’s doing this at all.
It’s a passion. pure and simple.

d

108. chris - February 1, 2007

Dip Thong,
Now You really need to “let this go and move along”. You made your point, again, and again, and again…
There is some pretty funny irony here.
Just as you advise Doc, time to “let it go and move on….”

109. THEETrekMaster - February 1, 2007

Can’t we all just git-along…dip thong? :-)

110. steve623 - February 1, 2007

#107 – I don’t think there’s any question that Mr. Dochterman has invested the time and energy in the project out of passion, pure and simple. Some of us are just curious about the motivation behind the timing of the release. If its purely promotional – i.e. “more people will watch it if it looks competative” and he wants to get his work in frotn of the widest audience possible, for reasons of his career, or perhaps merely for benign ego stroking, I think we’d all understand that. And even if it were “sour grapes” and the need to try and show up the CBS people, it may not be the noblest motive, but I think most of us could understand that too, and even empathize. But I don’t think its improper to not buy that its a purely arbitrary or coincidental happening. Its a question, posed in a place where people are invited to discuss things. I don’t see that its improper to pose or discuss it.

111. John N. - February 1, 2007

I think that a lot of people in here are being unfair to Dip Thong, who raised a good point, and then was bashed by a number of people who never bothered to answer the most salient point of the issue he raised, and that is this:

Why would Daren rush to release his version the same week as CBS-D if not to steal their thunder? Why not complete the work by an internal deadline, and then release it a week or a month later? That route would have equally satisfied his ‘need’ to complete what he started, or his ‘need’ to express his passion and creativity.

The only logical reason I can see why he’s chosen this route is to invite comparison to CBS-D, which will inevitably result in a competition between the two products, at least in forums such as these.

Until some of you can come up with an alternative explanation, I suggest that you give Dip Thong a break for raising a legitimate question.

112. ScreenRant.com - Visit For Movie News & More - February 1, 2007

Dip Thong said:
“Put yourself in CBS-D’s shoes. Your’re an artist. You bid for a job. You won the job fair and square. Now, after months of hard work, you’re ready to show your efforts to the world — and suddenly the guy you beat out for the job is going to display HIS version at the same time. He claims it’s all in “good fun” but regardless he’s stealing some of your thunder and making audiences view your work from a perspective never intended. You’d be pissed. And rightly so.”

I echo the thoughts of “Herbert Eyes Wide Open” in post #77 completely…

Well I put myself in Daren’s shoes. Apparently he came up with the idea to do a SFX remastered version of TOS, worked his butt off to come up with demo material and was turned away by the suits. Fast forward a couple of years (and in typical H’wood fashion) some bright-eyed suit says “Hey! I have an idea, let’s update Trek with new SFX!” I am so very sure that whoever that was had never seen nor heard of Daren’s work.

Riiiiiiight.

I think it’s Daren who ought to be annoyed and why the heck shouldn’t he post his work?

Vic

113. John N. - February 1, 2007

#110 – steve623

Again, I find myself in complete agreement with you. I wouldn’t be surprised if Daren WAS trying to steal their thunder for professional reasons.

If it’s not “sour grapes” (as Anthony assures us it’s not), I would at least expect it to be a sort of publicity stunt to get his body of work noticed… and to be honest, I have nothing wrong against that… everyone is entitled to try and promote their career.

But like you, I don’t like the idea of everyone believing that it’s just a simple coincidence, that if he hadn’t released it before CBS that he would never have finished it, or that he has no intention of competing with CBS-D. Those explanations just don’t ring true to me…

114. John N. - February 1, 2007

#112 – ScreenRant

I’m not sure if you’ve read the entire thread, but all that you just did was support Dip Thong’s original assertion that Daren is doing this out of sour grapes… ;)

115. steve623 - February 1, 2007

We’ll probably be banned from the site for this, John. LOL

116. Stu from the UK - February 1, 2007

#99 – John

Yes I feel the CBS hanger is a bit too far in the direction of being more movie like. Also It doesn’t fully convince as being real either, it still looks like CGI fan art you might see on a website for 3D hobbyists. Ideally I’d prefer something in between Darrens faithful hangar and the CBS version.

117. Ron Jon - February 1, 2007

I can’t imagine that CBS-D cares one way or another about Daren’s version, but his timing suggests that he is trying to ride CBS-D’s coat tails. Whether or not it’s because he’s bitter that he didn’t get the contract to do the real work is something we can only speculate, although the evidence of his actions seems pretty clear to me.

118. Thomas Jensen - February 1, 2007

Cool. Now I get two versions of one of my favorite episodes. How can that be bad?

119. John N. - February 1, 2007

#115 – steve623

Naw… Despite his threat to Dip Thong, Anthony’s too nice for that. He always gets mad at us when we talk about him banning us… calls it “us throwing ourselves on the ban grenade” or something like that… :D

#116 – Stu

I think that would be a fair compromise… :)

120. Greg Stamper - February 1, 2007

#118 — Thomas,
Agreed my friend.

121. Marvin the Martian - February 1, 2007

As mostly a lurker to this site, and an admirer of Daren’s work, I have to wholeheartedly agree with Dip Thong’s basic premise on this. I daresay that many people who see no harm in Daren releasing his version of DM at the same time as CBS-D have never worked alongside anyone at a high level in the entertainment business. I have, so let me give a case in point. I’m being deliberately vague about some details to not embarrass either myself or those involved.

About eight years ago, I was working as the assistant to the showrunner of a highly rated and critically praised cable TV series. Our third season cliffhanger ended with the two main characters at odds with one another. Given my online interaction with the fans, I was concerned that this story development would be misenterpreted as a permanent separation between the two characters. After a viewing of the rough cut, I made an impassioned plea that an additional voiceover be recorded and added to the end of the episode over the final title card to clarify the future direction of one of the characters. My suggestion was implemented and the fans responded positively to this change, as I had expected they would. At the time the episode aired, I was asked on a TV messageboard by someone who had managed to secure a copy of the shooting script prior to the airing of the episode (I have no idea how) whose idea it was to add the line at the end of the episode, since it wasn’t in the script. I responded, honestly, that it was my idea, and I pointed this out within the context of how open-minded the writing staff was when it came to suggestions on how to make the show better. In other words, my motivation was positive; I tried to spin it in a way that would make the writing staff look good.

Well… I should never have done that. Yes, what I stated was true, and yes, the fans did like the change that was made, but the writer of that episode was absolutely furious with me over that. In his mind, by taking credit for that change, it diminished his contribution to the series and make it appear that his writing was somehow lacking. One of the co-producers later came up to me and also admonished me for doing this. At the time, I was shocked–I thought I was praising the writing staff. But you know what? Both of them were right. It didn’t matter that my motives were pure or that I was praising the staff–the end result was that I made one of the writers look weak on a public messageboard, and that was a *major* no-no and a significant lapse in judgment on my part.

It took me several years to rebuild trust with the members of the writing staff after that experience, and had I not made a serious attempt to mend fences with them, it could have had a serious long-term effect on my career. It certainly had a short-term effect; there was *no way* they’d even consider reading anything I had written for at least a year until I earned trust with them again.

So, what Dip Thong says about it being a serious professional mistake for Daren to finish and release this episode at the same time as CBS-D has real merit. If I were him, I’d wait at least a few months after CBS-D has had time for their version to seep into the public consciousness before even considering releasing his version.

However, I think it’s foolish for him to even do this, regardless of his motives. Sure, it will titillate and excite a handful of die-hard Trek fans (myself included), but at what cost? Pissing off potential future employers? It’s not worth it. If I were him, I’d box it up and move on.

The number of real decision-makers in this business is very small, and word gets around about someone who is viewed, however unfairly, as “difficult” and not a team player. As much as I admire Daren’s work, he’s hurting his career by doing this.

122. Jim G. - February 1, 2007

Ok…now after looking at this thing numerous times. I see 1 flaw or oddity. Why have the shuttle craft banks portside before it clears the bay doors. It looks odd. Another skid perhaps? It still looks great but a bit odd. The approach shot of the Enterprise still looks awesome. I wish CBS would slow more of their shots like that down so you can see something. They move too fast in a lot of the scenes. My 2 cents.

123. Scott Gammans - February 1, 2007

Good lord, this thread’s gotten more activity than the regular “Remastered” threads! I guess that just means we’ll have more to talk about *after* Daren releases “Doomsday 2.0″ into the wild.

124. Michael Hall - February 1, 2007

Jesus, but what a load of crud.

“Why would Daren rush to release his version the same week as CBS-D if not to steal their thunder?”

Uh, steal their thunder how, exactly? You folks really think that the opinions of a few dozen people who troll a specialty website count for anything against the hundreds of thousands who will view the CBS effort when it airs next week? Let alone those who will eventually shell out money to buy the DVDs at Circuit City or Best Buy? With all due respect to Daren Dochterman, this is a vanity project for him, pure and simple, and one that will have no discernable impact whatsoever so far as the Trek audience is concerned–much less the general public, when measured against the ability of CBS/Paramount to market what is, when all is said and done, a product. This would be the case regardless of which version, in the humble opinion of those who congregate at a little website, is “better” than the other. Anyone who thinks otherwise has problems (as Harlan Ellison would put it) distinguishing between Shadow and Reality, and needs to get out of their parents’ basement a bit more often.

What really irks me about all this not so much questioning the timing of Dochterman’s release, which I suppose is a legitimate question (if an utterly inconsequential one). It is, rather, the assumption on the part of some that it can really be logically reasoned-out that he must have had some ulterior motive in all this–jealousy, sour grapes, stealing CBS-D’s thunder, whatever. That he has written about why he did this, and obviously has had a successful career in his chosen field (including acclaimed work in this franchise itself) doesn’t seem to matter, when they can analyze how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and spend idle time amusing themselves by impugning someone else’s character. Well, the sad fact is that Star Trek fans used to be better than shit like this. I believe Dochterman not because he’s a friend of the owners of this website, or because he Mr. Cool FX Guy, but because in the absence of any convincing contrary evidence it’s the decent thing to do. That’s what Trek used to stand for: believing what was best in the human condition, rather than assuming the worst. And while there is far worse that’s gone wrong with Trek fandom than that since Gene Roddenberry’s death (as evidenced by some recent ahistorical nonsense-positings here claiming that Roddenberry was originally a conservative who only was turned by evil Hollywood into a raving hippie–or, failing that, that Gene Coon was really the guy responsible for it all), I’ll submit that this sort of thing does far more damage to the legacy Roddenberry wished to leave to posterity than any miscues by CBS-D, or by Daren Dochterman.

125. Magic_Al - February 1, 2007

What the hell is the deal with the psychoanalysis in here? The guy’s sharing his project. I’m keen to see it!

The only motive I’d assign to wanting to release before CBS is to avoid being influenced, or being thought to have been influenced, by their choices specific to this episode. Doing his own version AFTER seeing CBS’s would seem less sporting to me.

My review of the clip:

The Enterprise model looks REAL. The physical model from “Trials and Tribble-ations looked more “CG” than this.

Still LOVE the starfield, far more than CBS. Only the starfields of Star Wars when seen in a theater look better.

CBS’s shuttlebay is better. This was a case where absolute recreation of rather clunky 1960s models wasn’t the right call, IMO.

The colorful light on DD’s asteroid field is more faithful to the show than CBS’s flat lighting of Yonada. The interior and exterior should have the same director of photography, should they not? DD’s right on this one.

The Constellation finally isn’t a toy, but I’d make the holes a bit more gaping, and rip open the bridge to show why it’s supposed to be uninhabitable. But that’s just me.

The doomsday machine is perfectly realized. It’s the original, with more detail.

Love it.

Thank you, Daren Dochterman!

126. steve - February 1, 2007

re: Dochterman’s “competing” with CBS Digital and trying to “steal their thunder” etc…

And forgive me if this has been mentioned before…

Hasn’t Dochterman said on his website that his version of “Doomsday Machine” is going to be released in high definition? Where would he be getting the high def elements of this episode if not from CBS itself? That would tell me that he is doing this with CBS-D’s cooperation and probably its blessing as well.

127. Commodore Z - February 1, 2007

I went back and read a bunch of Daren’s comments over the past few months, and I think it’s perfectly reasonable to conclude that he is acting out of petty bitterness over not getting the contract. #124 is correct in that he is obviously not going to steal any thunder from CBS-D, but it is a sad reflection on an obviously talented artist.

128. KDoug - February 1, 2007

I say, “Good show, Mr. Dochterman!” I support your efforts and look forward to viewing them in full.

129. steve - February 1, 2007

As for the effects, I have to say one thing:

Daren’s Enterprise is at least the same COLOR as the one I grew up with — NOT gunmetal gray!

130. Spockariffic - February 1, 2007

#129 This is the point I was trying to make earlier. If you want what you grew up with, Daren is your guy. He’s obviously trying to capture that feel and succeeds in many ways. (just not what I wanted to see out of this project, but fine work!)

If you want a different artistic take however, that brings the Enterprise to life as a more realistic vehicle that today’s younger audiences (and some of us that like the Enterprise represented as more metal and real) would find appealing then CBS-D is your meat and potatoes.

LL&P

131. Skippy 2k - February 1, 2007

I am in the process of going thru an my old hard drive and organizing and found an old animation made by I believe Nova Class from the trekbbs (hence novadesigns). I thought this was awesome, well still do….with all the different versions of the old Enterprise going around I thought I would re-post it. I like how just before it jumps to warp the impulse engines power down, it even has that fourth unlit rectangel like the original. :)

It was dedicated to Matt Jeffries, nice clip.

http://media.putfile.com/Dedication-57

132. TomBot2007 - February 1, 2007

Wow… um, so if I release my Stick Figure Doomsday Version will it steal some thunder too?
;-P
#124 spoke pretty much my mind- without all the effort.
As someone, who vainly, tried his hand at customization… I had “several” decent attempts staunched by the “Official” release. I do regret sometimes NOT completing my OWN version, and this is why I can underestand the motivation to complete it and get it out there… before it dies on the vine. Yeah, he coulda waited… so what. What’s like the percentage of people who will see his versus CBS-D’s? Miniscule.
Will we even care next week? I don’t think so…
Kudos, to those keeping an open mind and just keeping the judgements to what works or doesn’t for their tastes.
:-)

133. steve - February 1, 2007

Hey Spock,

I guess my point about the color is not about the quality of the effects themselves, but about the historical accuracy of the whole thing. The Enterprise in the original effects was a real thing (albeit a model) with a definite color, which we can see in all the original series shots or the many behind-the-scenes photos that you can find around the internet. Much as I enjoy CBS’s efforts, I would have preferred that they tried to recreate that original color in their shots. Not only would it be more “in harmony” with the original special effects, but I think the shots would look better too (more contrast-y,for want of a better word). And it could be done in a way that looks just as realistic as the shots they are doing now.

134. Jeffrey S. Nelson - February 1, 2007

Daren…. thanks for putting this on windows media player. Can you do the same for the other posting from January 25th.? I guess my computer is made of stoneknives and bearskins, cuz it won’t take the quick time player, lad… aye, the haggis is in the fire for sure.
Your stuff looks terrific! Now all we need is the blooper where Kirk says, “did you get a look at its paw?” In reference to Matt Decker saying, “it had a maw this wide…”

Ensign Jeff

135. ScreenRant.com - Visit For Movie News & More - February 1, 2007

#114 – John N.

“I’m not sure if you’ve read the entire thread, but all that you just did was support Dip Thong’s original assertion that Daren is doing this out of sour grapes…”

LOL!!! Heh, I suppose you’re right, I *did* do that, didn’t I. :-)

Vic

136. David C. Fein - February 1, 2007

Daren is certainly the only one on the right Trek with this whole idea…! Cheers Daren… I can’t wait to see your finished work.

Best!

David

137. mikeg - February 1, 2007

wow, this has been a looooong thread, and I am probably a day behind the chatter…..
Daren, I can totally appreciate where you are coming from… what you are doing is based upon a real love for the material! Whoever doesn’t see that is missing the point. Star Trek has spawned a gazillion fans, every one of whom might cut off a limb for the chance to do ANYTHING associated with ST, hmm?
Some ST fans have truly shown their “cultic”, tendencies by NOT having an open mind about some… well, many…. aspects of Trek.
ST is 2 things: 1) ST is what the STUDIO gives us; and 2) ST is what the fans invent. What the fans invent is wide open, and, while it might merit some constructive criticism (like you might get in a writing class), it does not merit ANY sort of personal attacks or criticisms.
For every person who tosses out a criticism: you SHOULD be able to show what you have done/are doing, before you start bashing.
Daren, you’ve done some truly impressive work, which I respect, BECAUSE I love ST. I appreciate everything CBS/D is doing with ST:En, BECAUSE I love ST. Now, really, is there anything to add to this?????

138. Dan Siciliano - February 1, 2007

We are soooo excited…we can’t wait!!!!!!!!!!!!

139. chuck_norris_69 - February 1, 2007

ugly

140. John N - February 1, 2007

Wow… some of you really astound me. I feel like I’m in the movie “Zoolander”.

Maury Ballstein: Dochterman is so hot right now he could take a crap, wrap it in tinfoil, put a couple fish hooks on it and sell it to Queen Elizabeth as earrings.

I only wish that CBS-D could get some love like this…

141. John N - February 2, 2007

#124 – Michael Hall

Life is relative.

“Stealing thunder” compared to the Earth being destroyed to make way for an intergalactic highway? No.

“Stealing thunder” when it comes to the regular inhabitants on this site who have been dying to see TDM, and will likely compare the two offerings shot for shot? Yes.

I’m sorry that you think we have “problems”, as you put it, for asking what you admit is a “legitimate question”. You say that it’s not the question of timing that irks you, but rather the implication that he has ulterior motivations behind the timing.

I’m curious though… how would YOU ask this “legitimate question” about the timing of the release WITHOUT addressing the issue of motivation?

142. John N - February 2, 2007

#121 – Marvin the Martian

Thanks for coming out of the shadows to share your story with us. :)

We’ll wave every once in a while to the dark corners of the thread in case you’re lurking… ;)

143. Mark - February 2, 2007

# 74 and # 124 (Michael Hall) – with the exception of the language and taking the Lord’s name in vain, you nailed it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what Daren is doing, and besides the fact that dip is just plain wrong (and being a jerk – a nice jerk, but a jerk nonetheless) we all benefit from Dochterman’s efforts. Daren is obviously a very talented fan offering his versions/interpretations for us to accept or reject for our own personal pleasure. His work is no threat to CBS in any way, shape or form, and is simply one more example – in this case a good one – of a fan sharing his love of Trek. There are plenty of other fan offerings out there: pictures, drawings, costumes, aliens, short stories, films, etc. A few are “official;” most are not. For the most part, they all add to Trek, not diminish it. What diminishes Trek are people that want to censor fans’ contributions to the Trek universe (especially those that assign devious motives to someone who already explained why he was doing something – in effect calling him a liar.) We can do without those people. As Shatner said, get a life.

144. Mark - February 2, 2007

#142 asks: I’m curious though… how would YOU ask this “legitimate question” about the timing of the release WITHOUT addressing the issue of motivation?

Can’t you read? At the top of this thread, Daren answered your question before you asked it:

I realized that an arbitrary deadline of “before CBS releases theirs” would be the best way for me to get off my ass and actually get it done.[number 1] This would give me a specific target… and I also reasoned that releasing it afterwards would just open the can of worms of “Well, he just waited to see what CBS would do so he could make his better, or so he could steal some good ideas…”[number 2] or what-have-you. I realized that I would get criticism either way… so I decided to have a clean approach… and not be influenced by anything that CBS had done[number 3]

He just gave you three reasons why he did it when he did it. Which one(s) are you calling him a liar about?

145. Robert Bernardo - February 2, 2007

Kyle H. wrote:

> When I was a teenager, around the time ST IV and V came out, I
> used to make little Trek animations on my Commodore Amiga
> 1000 using Deluxe Video and Deluxe Paint (would have loved a
> Video Toaster, but that wasn’t in the parents’ budget… anyone
> remember this stuff?).

Hey, I still have Amiga computers! Do you still have those animations?

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

146. Cervantes - February 2, 2007

I KNEW it! They should have hired Douglas Trumbull in the first place…;o)

147. Father Rob - February 2, 2007

Well, having now seen the preview, I have to say that I am impressed by the skills of anyone who can put together digital animation of any form – I sure can’t. However, I am not all that impressed with what I see. Most of the shots of the ship look too cartoonish, and the shots just aren’t believable to me.

Sorry…

Rob+

148. Deckard - February 2, 2007

After taking some time to digest all this, I watched the clip again.

The first shot of the E looks impressive at first, but after watching it again, it looks like a plastic toy. The shuttlecraft taking off still looks pathetic. The shot of the Constellation from the rear looks like another plastic toy.

I don’t know, maybe people are seeing it with rose colored glasses simply because it’s new and it’s from a fan, but I really don’t think CBS-D has anything to worry about.

149. Cervantes - February 2, 2007

Imagine if say, the exact effects shots of CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND were done now in best CGI available…would it really capture the “weighty realism” of a lit object really being there, as Doug Trumbull’s miniature photography achieved?…I don’t think so for one second.
Having new Star Trek:original series CGI is all well and good, and while, as a fellow artist and designer, I LOVE some of CBS Digital’s stuff, especially their planets, I do miss the original MORE COLOURFUL ethic, which Daren seems to have expertly caught…but no matter WHICH “camp” certain posters seem to be in here…BOTH of these approaches are a step BACKWARDS in my own humble opinion, as their is an inherant “artificial, painterly” look to CGI that cannot compare to well filmed Models with built-in lighting.
Sheesh, I’m depressed at that realisation again…maybe I too need a Snickers bar and a quiet lie down now…

150. Herbert Eyes Wide Open - February 2, 2007

I went back and re-read this thread and I want to share something about this site and internet posting in general…

Again, great gratitude to Anthony and all his cohorts that contribute to this site. It is a wonderful forum for expression, exchange, and enlightenment. And from what I’ve gathered The Trek Movie Report is far superior to many other sites that offer similar fare in content and exhibition… in the level of intelligence of it’s participants and the information and observations they share… in the generally good-natured and respectful flow of communication that occurs.

I’ll admit I am a neophyte when it comes to internet posting. More accurately, this is the first site that I have ever participated in. I come here for the reasons I mentioned above but also over the past many months because I enjoy the cast of characters that visit here. All of you, at some point or another have made me… smile, consider, reevaluate, irritated, laugh, exasperated and the list goes on…

But what is most interesting to me is I don’t know any of you and yet you see character emerge… likes and dislikes… humor or lack thereof… political and sociological leanings… rhythms to each of your writings that reflect the beats and cadences of your personality… And, yet… even though I interact with you on nearly a daily basis… you are all anonymous to me… whether you use your real name or a posting moniker, you will always be, to large degree, unknown.

This paradigm offers an amazing freedom… to present exactly the image YOU wish… to allow others to see only what YOU want them to… No preconceptions as a result of the way you look or where you live or what car you drive or your job… It is wonderfully liberating and allows for great personal expression.

However, there is another edge to that freedom… Because the only method of communication are the words that spring forth from tapping that keyboard without the benefit of the subtleties and nuances that accompany body language, vocal tenor, facial expression, and visible demeanor… the resulting post can be… to be kind, misconstrued.

I am in no way suggesting censorship… the thoughts and feelings and observations that bounce around this site make it compelling, invigorating and so much fun to visit.

I guess what I’m saying… what I’m asking… Is if you write something directed toward another fellow poster or posters, would you say it to their face? Would you make the comment or joke or admonition the way you wrote it directly to them if they were across a dinner table or sitting next to you on the train or elbowed at a bar?

If the answer is yes… then “damn the torpedoes” and let the discussion begin. However, if the answer is no… just food for thought.

I’m sure some will read the foregoing and think, “Mmmm, interesting?” Others will think, “What a self-righteous schmuck!” And then there are those who won’t care and wonder, “What the hell does this have to do with milkin’ ducks on a chicken farm?”

At any rate, the foregoing was intended simply for reflection… my own included. And not that anyone gives a hoot… I’ve gotta lay off the Snickers bars… nearly went into sugar shock yesterday. ;)

151. Jonathan - February 2, 2007

The first image of TOS effects redone that I have viewed is Daren’s. I loved it. I am not interested in whether or not he is going to hurt his career by completing his version of the “Doomsday Machine”. I am not truly interested in his reasons for finishing it. I for one have not even viewed it yet. I just look forward to it. If the CBS version turns out the way I figure, I will like it and still criticize it.

Daren, I am not a big fan of making statements about people or their work ,but if you get any feedback that is positive or negative from “the fans” you have made life interesting for us. . . BRAVO YOU GO MAN!!!

I am supporting the creative process. IS HE KILLING SOME ONE? IS HE THREATENING ANY OF US FANS HERE? WE HAVE BIGGER PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD WHERE CRITICIZING THE MOTIVATIONS OF OTHERS IS CRUCIAL .People in uniform are fighting a war for reasons that are not entirely clear to see. Our leaders make calls based of their personal reasonings that eventually get people killed. An artist makes a choice to show his work so what?A discussion about an artist’s manuevering against the product making machine can be fun, but after all is said and done it is the artist who lives with the work. I am going to see Daren’s version after I finish my soap box writing here. IF it is a bad or good as I have heard I will have fun anyway.Because I just admire the process. Live long and prosper… Everyone!

152. Stanky McFibberich - February 2, 2007

151. Herbert Eyes Wide Open

Well done, Herbert. We could all benefit from your advice.

??What is the deal with all the Snickers talk lately??
I don’t like Snickers…especially when they are poorly lighted, the wrapper is not positioned correctly, or if I don’t know the motivations of the person selling them to me.
I like Milky Way, as any Star Trek fan should, because it has more to do with space.

And I am eagerly awaiting the Journey to Babel.

153. John N. - February 2, 2007

#145 – Mark

I’d appreciate it if you would dial it back a bit… I don’t appreciate the tone of hostility.

I was posting to this thread LONG before that update, and I apologize if I didn’t notice that it had been updated with Daren’s comments.

154. Nelson - February 2, 2007

Quite a controversial topic we have here!

Was that the real David C. Fein who produced Star Trek The Motion Picture Special Edition DVD above chiming in on post #136?

Marvin the Martian had quite an interesting post about the internal workings of the small entertainment industry.

Perhaps Daren has discussed his intent with Mr. Rossi and company.

Has anyone actually read the blog on Daren’s site with his Doomsday preview and his explaination of his motivations for this project? He knows about the controversy here and he’s directly addressing you guys.

One things for sure, amongst the small vocal group here, it’s certainly giving CBS a ton of attention for when their offical version airs. Perhaps the attention will cross over to the mainstream? I wonder.

155. Nelson - February 2, 2007

Opps, didn’t realized this thread was updated this morning with Daren’s comments on top! Apologies for my last comments above in post #155.

156. Marvin the Martian - February 2, 2007

#143

Thanks, John. :)

#152
> IS HE KILLING SOME ONE? IS HE THREATENING ANY OF US FANS
> HERE? WE HAVE BIGGER PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD WHERE
> CRITICIZING THE MOTIVATIONS OF OTHERS IS CRUCIAL.

I can’t speak for Dip Thong (who seems to have disappeared from this thread), although I’d suspect he’d agree with me.

I don’t care what Daren’s motivations are. They may be pure as the driven snow. And, as a Trek fan, I like his work and look forward to seeing more.

The bottom line that everyone seems to be ignoring is that, no matter his motives, his need to finish DM and release it at the same time as CBS-D releases will be taken as a professional insult. *You* as a fan who has never worked in the entertainment business may not see it that way, but those in the business *do*. And in this business, people do not forget those things. Entertainment decision makers (and their assistants who are bored out of their heads answering phones on a slow day) also surf the web, too, you know.

And they all talk to each other.

But hey, it’s Daren’s career and his choice to make. I’m just saying (along with Dip Thong) that doing what he’s doing is professionally unwise at best, and could be damaging to his career at worst. That’s all. And I’m speaking from experience.

Let’s hope none of that happens. He’s obviously a very talented guy. And I prefer the red deflector dish, too. :)

157. Michael Hall - February 2, 2007

#144 and #145

Mark, no offense meant on the name-taking. Again, just to be clear: my problem is not so much with addressing the issue of the timing itself, or even questioning Dochterman’s motives for releasing the footage when he is (though, in truth, I find such questions themselves a little on the petty side at best–the guy is offering up his work for comments, not his motives for psychoanalysis). What I resent is how some feel perfectly justified in assuming that the motives of someone they’ve never even met were unworthy of what was clearly a serious outlay of time and energy. Frankly, I think that says a lot more about the motives Dochterman’s accusers than it says about him.

#152: Word.

As for Daren’s work itself: while I’ll wait to see the episode in toto before voicing definitive opinions about it, suffice to say that if this sample is representative of its quality I’ll be having lots to offer in the way of praise, but praise tempered by some fairly specific criticisms.

158. Joe Coatar - February 2, 2007

wow 157 posts, this whole dommsday machine mess is a big deal, i’d better tune in this feb 10th

159. John N. - February 2, 2007

#157 – Marvin the Martian

I don’t know about anyone else, but I completely believe your story and insight. I have two close friends in the 3D animation industry, and I’m often shocked by the stories they tell me. After years of slaving for his boss, building the animation team from scratch, my one friend got sued repeatedly by his now ex-boss just for starting up his own company!

Everything I hear about that industry reminds me of being back in high-school… back-stabbing, irrational petty repsonses… it’s everything that you would expect adults NOT to be like.

160. THEETrekMaster - February 2, 2007

Oh good lord. I can’t believe what I am reading here.

TTM

161. Jim J - February 2, 2007

#56-Thank you for this. It proves my point:

“I did download The Corbomite Maneuver from I-Tunes and it looks great. Much better than my basic cable vhs recording. The CBS ship looks much brighter and realistic viewing it on the computer than it does on my standard defintion TV, so I assume that would apply to the HD version as well. It looks a lot less battleship gray on the monitor than on the TV. I was quite impressed.”

162. trekGurl1975 - February 2, 2007

Hey Darren,
I want to hear back from you about what these areas circled in green are? I didnt notice them on the original ddm. Maybe you can shed some light. I was hoping someone would add more eroded material and corosion. Is that what those areas are supposed to be?

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w80/stuffisboring/daren_ddm.jpg

163. doubleofive - February 2, 2007

We’ve been getting the CBS-D previews a week and a half before they air, but the “official” DDM preview is nowhere to be seen. Are they perhaps working so hard on it they didn’t have time to make a trailer this week?

164. Matt Wright - February 2, 2007

#162 — which point is that?

165. just cruising thru - February 2, 2007

#163- trekGurl: those would be texture seams in the circled areas. basically… how to explain this this most clearly… a 3D model is covered in a bunch of flat 2D images: textures. these images are wrapped onto the 3d model almost like decals on a car, using UV coordinates, which basically say which pixel of the texture goes in what position on the model. if the person making the model and laying out the UV coordinates is not careful, then the textures will stretch, or in this case, line up poorly.

misaligned and poorly painted textures are kind of considered ‘freshman mistakes’ that most people do not even notice, but you spotted these ones, which means they need revisiting. darren, are you working to fix these? i’m guessing this is still a work in progress, but it is certainly looking good, keep it up! if you haven’t already, you might want to check out body paint, or deep paint to help fix these areas. i know how hard it is to do all of this, especially as just one man, so kudos for sticking with it, and good luck!

166. Drew - February 2, 2007

Well done Darren! You should be proud.

167. dannyboy1 - February 2, 2007

Thanks so much for the WMP version of the preview. This website totally rocks. Those of us in Australia haven’t seen any of the Trek Remastered episodes yet (I expect we won’t until they’re released on DVD) so you can imagine how I enjoy the previews and reviews on this site. But back to the topic – Daren’s “Doomsday Enhanced” looks sweet and will be very much enjoyed.

168. EBAR - February 2, 2007

I for one don’t care why Daren is finishing/releasing his version of The Doomsday Machine. The fact exists, he is doing it. I would like to hear more opinions about the results.

I really like the original work Daren did on Doomsday Machine. However, I hate almost everything I saw in the new preview. I find it hard to believe it was done by the same person. My biggest concerns:

• the lighting of the ships is terrible;

• all of shots of “space” look flat rather than three-dimensional; and

• the movement of the Enterprise and shuttle look very artificial.

I went back and watched Daren’s teaser and Act 1 segment he had done previously. These are far superior to the work shown in the trailer.

I have been very critical of CBS Digital’s early work on TOS, but I think their latest work (e.g., Journey to Babel) is far superior to Daren’s current work. It looks to me like Darren was rushing to complete it. It’s too bad; he had been setting the bar higher for CBS Digital. I’m really shocked that so many of the posts have raved about the high quality of this work. I couldn’t disagree more.

169. Charlie - February 2, 2007

There is an article over at Star Trek.com with the digital remastering team. One the home page is a small picture of the new remastered, but unfinished DM. The description of the machine sounds really awesome and I think CBS digital version of the DM will give Daren a run for his money. I like Daren’s work a great deal and I am not bellittling his work. And the fact that we are going to have to new versions of the DM is any Star Treks fans wildest dream realized.

170. John N - February 2, 2007

#169 – EBAR

I agree with you completely, but have held back from saying so as I was afraid that it would seem to much like sour grapes after I was so involved with the other major issue in this thread.

However, refer to my earlier comments (#85, 99, and 141) to see that I echo your sentiments.

171. John N - February 2, 2007

#170 – Charlie

Thanks for the heads up! That’s a great article!

172. New Horizon - February 2, 2007

#166

Those are certainly not texture seams. Daren explained, either here or on his website, that the further out towards the end of the doomsday machine you go, the slighty more transparent the funnel becomes. You can’t really tell from the still pictures, but you’re just seeing the outer layers show through…in addition to a banding effect from the light as it filters outward. With todays tech, it’s pretty hard to muck up unwrapping a UV map.

173. Herbert Eyes Wide Open - February 3, 2007

#153. Stanky McFibberich

Thanks for the props… Just wanted posters to remember there are real people on the other end of their message.

Milky Way bars are certainly a close second… just as long as they’re frozen. That’s the way they should be served in space. ;)

174. Stu from the UK - February 3, 2007

# 171. John N

To be fair, let’s wait until we’ve seen *all* the work in Darrens episode.

175. John N - February 3, 2007

#175 – Stu

You are absolutely correct… :)

176. J. Parker - February 3, 2007

Responding to no one in particular, I “joined” Daren’s Beta Five forum, and made a post. While I shall his right to delete some of my “wishes”, and perhaps one mentioning working again with a past colleague was not to his liking, I find it interesting that suggestions that he redo Star Trek V: The Final Frontier were left on his board, but my hope that he gets the job to do design work, which he does quite well, see his portfolio, with Abrams on the new Star Trek film was deleted.

I do really like the lighting and texture of his Enterprise in orbit in his opening credits; and, remembering my manners, I am grateful for his effort, and appreciate the work of CBS Digital, when it’s good.

And critics of Daren should go to his site and see that he has made numerous positive and support remarks about the efforts of CBS Digital.

I myself would have preferred an Enterprise that has the detail of Doug Trumbull’s STMP model, with the nacelle caps, and the self-illumination features.

Well, I enjoy both Daren’s and CBS’ work; it’s great we can see both.

177. THEETrekMaster - February 4, 2007

#169 You must have seen a different trailer than I did.

I thought the lighting of the ships was great! Much closer to the original lighting than what CBS is doing. Although I like their work too…it’s just different.

The only nitpick I have is the shuttle shot in Daren’s trailer…the movements weren’t that good on that.

178. New Horizon - February 4, 2007

#178 -“I thought the lighting of the ships was great! Much closer to the original lighting than what CBS is doing. Although I like their work too…it’s just different.”

I agree, on both counts.

179. David C. Fein - February 5, 2007

Nelson, yes, it’s me.

Daren is a brilliant talent, and a good friend.

In general, Daren is the only artist I’ve met who consistently delivers beyond my expectations.

Cheers!

David C. Fein

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