Daren Dochterman’s Doomsday is Done! | TrekMovie.com
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Daren Dochterman’s Doomsday is Done! February 9, 2007

by Matt Wright , Filed under: Fan Productions , trackback

After long wait, Daren’s take on the most effects heavy TOS episode is available. He has a list of notes for the fans about his artistic desisions:

  1. Yes, I know there is a “mistake” in (a certain shot… name it)… it is intended. An homage to 60s FX technology. (lol)
  2. Yes, the Doomsday Machine is transparent in some sections. This is intended. I still maintain that part of the transparency in the front of the cone was meant to be.
  3. The shuttle name I’m using is the NCC-1701/1 “Spinrad”
  4. I know the shots are grainy. They’re supposed to be. :)
  5. I don’t show exterior damage to the Constellation’s bridge much. There is a little bit of a burn mark… but that’s it. The original model shot had no damage to the bridge… and yes, I’m trying to duplicate that… but not have it look a foot long.


For now Daren is releasing an effects only reel, but notes he may release the full episode at a later date. From his blog:

As I stated before… I’m gonna start out slowly… so here is the FX only reel… I’ve left a few of the live action clips to bracket everything so you know the context of the shots… and it is quite choppy… but it should give you a good idea of what I’m doing here.

To begin with it is available on RapidShare:

WMV: small version (29 mb) | WMV: Large version (75 mb)
QT h.264: large version (96 meg)

additional mirror sites and more information at BetaFive.com

Comments

1. Neil - February 9, 2007

Fantastic! Very nicely done, Daren!

2. Matt Wright - February 9, 2007

First impressions:
Major kudos on redoing the transporter effects that and the viewscreen rotoscoping must have been time consuming.

One word to describe Daren’s efforts is “faithful.” In many shots I could swear I was watching the original, but cleaned up and in a high quality that wasn’t possible in the 60s.

Only things I dislike are the balls on the back of the engine and the inital views of the Constellation sparking seems to be doing so excessively.

3. ObiWanCon - February 9, 2007

Compared to the Remastered Star Trek done by CBS this is….

SH!T

4. Michael - February 9, 2007

Trivia Question…
Just how many different takes are there on this episode anyway?

5. Dan S - February 9, 2007

What a let down. I thought, from what he stated before, he would release the ENTIRE episode, not just an “effects reel”. Although very nice, it’s not complete. Oh, well, i hope the TV version is better, at least it will be a complete show!!!!

6. Dr. Image - February 9, 2007

I Just saw it!!!!!! WOOOHHAA! History in the making!
Ok…let me breathe…now to be objective:
Yes, it’s a bit choppy, but it seems to live up to expectations for the most part.
My least favorite thing was the anti-proton beam- maybe a little too War of the Worlds and frenetic to convey the power suggested. Yes, he kept the phasers red, but the yellow impact effect looks out of place.
Some of the ship movements and curving trajectories somehow seem off. Deliberate? Hmmm.
On the plus side- his big E captures the “feel” of the original footage effortlessly. (Nacelle ball size notwithstanding) Although the starfields are a little too snowstormish for my taste.
The Constellation has the appropriate amount of damage to honor the original, and the shuttle bay scene looks GREAT!
It all just goes to show that the best future for Trek lies with it’s fans.
Gotta watch it again— later!
CONGRATS Daren!!
-Donn

7. Stanky McFibberich - February 9, 2007

I commented on this in another thread, but just want to reiterate my thanks to Mr. Dochterman for making this available. It was a lot of fun to watch and to my surprise, the download went smoothly and I was watching in no time. I usually have trouble with things like that.
I don’t really like to make comparisons, since the two philosophies are somewhat different, but I guess one thing I like about the Dochterman effort is that the ship does look more like the original model. I have no problem with CBS Digital’s model at all, but I do like the lighter color of the Dochterman version better. I also like how he subtly integrated his name into the closing credits. I am not a big fan of the big lit-up hemispheres on the end of the warp engines, but it really makes no big difference to me.
Very much looking forward to tomorrow to see what CBS-D came up with.

8. Matt Wright - February 9, 2007

#5 — you realize that for Daren to release the whole episode may infact be considered a copyright violation as more then half of that would be Paramount’s own content. So relax, Daren said he might do the full version for fun later on his blog.

9. FlyingTigress - February 9, 2007

The ‘homage’/'mistake’ wouldn’t happen to be the scene following Decker opening the center forward port in the shuttle — and the subsequent exterior visual showing that it was still closed — would it?

10. Matt Wright - February 9, 2007

#9 — I noticed that too, I think that is it.

11. Commodore Z - February 9, 2007

Not bad for a fan film, but kind of a let down after all of Dochterman’s build-up and all of his postings of “here’s how I would have done it.”

12. chuckNorris69 - February 9, 2007

I should have expected this quality of work from someone who dresses up like batman and glorifies his ego on message boards. What an extreme let down. Im depressed now. Thanks Daren. =(

13. Michael Hall - February 9, 2007

Man, I just have to wonder who raised some of these people. :-(

14. Brian - February 9, 2007

The texturing of the Enterprise hull is perfect, COMPLETELY faithful to the original look and it blends in nicely.

15. Solange L'Montier D'l soilar - February 9, 2007

Could I inquire on how long has Mr. Daren has been working on this episode?

16. Greg Stamper - February 9, 2007

One Man working on his own – - in his spare time with finite resources. Very Nice Work! Enjoyed the different angles and translucent Doomsday Machine – - that appearance pushed to the limit upon its destruction.

17. hotPantsRule - February 9, 2007

I think he has been working on it for what, 12 years? He started using a commodore 64 with a beta release of strata pro studio

18. Deckard - February 9, 2007

OMG can I have the last 20 minutes of my life back?

19. Ron Jon - February 9, 2007

Looks pretty good, but if the goal is to duplicate the original series style, I think that Dennis Bailey does a better job with his work on Starship Exeter.

20. Solange L'Montier D'l soilar - February 9, 2007

I believe that Daren’ s work clearly reflects the effort that it took to accomplish this task. What you see is exactly representative of what he did, and what he did can be seen by what he has shown us. Congratulations Daren.

21. Scott Gammans - February 9, 2007

CONGRATULATIONS, DAREN!! This is a *major* accomplishment and you should feel justifiably proud of your work on this project.

22. Michael Hall - February 9, 2007

“OMG can I have the last 20 minutes of my life back?”

For what they’re worth. And you’re welcome to them.

(Jeez. An effects professional takes years of his life to complete a project and put it out there for the edification of people with like interests, with no more expectation than maybe a little ego-stroking tempered with some constructive criticism. Instead, he starts getting gummed to death by nerds.)

Solange, that’s a close to a perfect Zen posting as any I’ve ever read. :-)

23. Doc Horror - February 9, 2007

Heh, I lucked out and happened to see it and download it as soon as the post appeared. Unfortunatley I’m at work and can’t watch it yet. Grrrrr….

24. Kelvington - February 9, 2007

I don’t think I can be any more impressed, the death of the planet killer was amazing! I really liked the transparent part of the machine. My only question is, was this all CGI? or was it both CGI and models? Either way, you should make a loop of it, and send it to CBS-D and say… oh this is what it’s SUPPOSE to look like. Well done!

On the jump cuts, you might consider putting blip/flashes between cuts, it’s the only way I can think to make them a little less jarring.

25. dggjag - February 9, 2007

What an incredible gift!! This is an amazing time to be a Star Trek fan. Two different versions of one of the best episodes are here for our viewing pleasure. Thank You Darren for your hard work. Although, judging from the still shots posted on the web, I may prefer the look of the CBS effort. Of course taste is always subjective. I feel like a young child again watching Star Trek on Saturday nights with my Dad. Once again, Thank You!!!

26. Jeff Bond - February 9, 2007

I wonder if one person who made up their mind about both of these projects months ago will emerge from this weekend with anything like different perceptions…

27. Daren Doc - February 9, 2007

I’m just gonna jump in here to say thanks for the interest… and the constructive and not so constructive comments… fun to read, all of them.

To answer the question of how long this took me… sure, I started it seriously years ago… but I hadn’t done anything on it since mid 2003. Then in November of last year, I decided to finish it…and worked a couple hours here and there… then in mid January, I started the big push and worked every night and weekend until this past Wednesday… much to the chagrin of my still understanding girlfriend. But at last, it’s done… no more excuses. It is what it is… and I’m fine with it. I figured this was a better way to state my opinion than constantly commenting on the CBS Digital project.

To the comments that have said I did this out of spite and bitterness… you’re entitled to your opinion… but it’s uninformed. I have no animocity… and have freely left myself open for criticism and snide remarks that some have accused me of making.

Thanks again for the encouragment… Now I’ll go find something else to do. lol

drd

28. Peter Nolan - February 9, 2007

I think the thing to remember is that Darren and CBS-D are trying to achieve very different things. CBS-D is trying to make the fx shots look like what you get today, but retaining the artistic decisions of the original crew as much as possible. Darren’s approach, it seems to me, is to say “okay, so busting the original model of the smithsonian and doing passes of it with a HD camera is out of the question… but if you *could*, what would it look like?”

Those are *very* different goals and, while I prefer CBS-D’s approach, I think they’ve *both* achieved their objectives spectacularly. If anything, Darren’s is probably closer to what *he* wanted than the CBS eps are to what *they* wanted.

29. Nostromo - February 9, 2007

I’m very impressed with the Doomsday Machine itself which looks, to my eyes, consistently far more effective and convincing that then photos of the CBS version. The crystalline appearance is very good.

However I do have reservations about some of the other effects. Apeing the ‘Sixties look is one thing, but I find it a bit jarring that the effects also ape some of the awkward camera angles and wobbles of the original ship movements so perfectly. That said, when the ship is flying towards the character on an even keel it looks tremendous; not precisely model-like (compared to the Starship Exeter effects which are nearly indistinguishable from the original model work – in a good way), but very reminiscent of the original model.

It’s therefore a bit of a curate’s egg to me, but I greatly enjoyed watching it and I have to give massive praise to Daren simply for the sheer effort and artistry which has gone in to this endeavour. It’s so great to have multiple versions of the episode to watch, and multiple new TOS effects to admire.

30. Nostromo - February 9, 2007

One or two typos in that last post, sorry!

31. T Negative - February 9, 2007

I enjoyed watching this greatly. Great Job Daren! Ignore the A-holes.

32. Axinar - February 9, 2007

That is, beyond question, the most incredible CG rendition of the Enterprise I have ever seen.

The Constellation shots are downright eerie in spots too.

Nice touch on an explanation for the transparency of The Planet Killer.

Excellent, excellent work.

I’d love to see your vision of the first “zoom in” shot from the opener of “The Cage”.

Although, judging from a couple of your shots in “Doomsday Machine”, something tells me you have been working on that one too … :)

33. steve623 - February 9, 2007

I just wanted to congratulate Mr. Dochterman on the completion of his project. Its quite an accomplishment.

34. Longwinded - February 9, 2007

Congratulations to Darren, and very nicely done. I just sat back and enjoyed it the show the way it was intended and had a good time. Oh sure there were things wrong, but as I’ve said with the CBS-D products no one is perfect and this isn’t a perfect show.

Now Darren how about giving The Ultimate Computer or The Enterprise Incident a re-fit?

35. Drew - February 9, 2007

Darren – NICE!!!! You did great!
Thanks for all the hard work you put in.

Hopefully in the near future you will be able to release this in its full length episode – the way it was meant to be seen!

DREW

36. Lao3D - February 9, 2007

Just re-watched it in the big version. Again, awesome work. Some people aren’t going to “get” the approach you took. But Kelvington’s post said it all when he asked if you were mixing models with the CGI. In some shots, there was no way to distinguish.

You attained the slightly garish, but always cool look of TOS and gave it a kick in the side to let us know its alive, if you’ll pardon the expression (wrong episode, I know). I like alot of CBS-D’s work as well, but sometimes find it a little too modern and drab. But I look forward to their Doomsday with glee as well.

Again, thanks for sharing this highly personal vison with the world.

37. Deckard - February 9, 2007

Maybe I’m the only one that can see the massive number of mistakes in it.

38. Stu from the UK - February 9, 2007

#37

Maybe you’re the only one that doesn’t realise they are intentional?

Yes, I think you are.

39. brady - February 9, 2007

WOW…never actually saw someone commit career suicide before ;)….that was awful DOC…new voyages looks better and doesnt have your resume…time ta get back on your feet brush yaself off and start hitting those want ads buckarro…sad

40. Daren Doc - February 9, 2007

To be fair, they aren’t ALL intentional… :) But that’s life.

41. Daren Doc - February 9, 2007

lol… hey brady… this isn’t my career. This is my hobby. :)

42. Magic_Al - February 9, 2007

I’m amazed at how non-CG this looks. Many of these shots could coexist in an edit with the best 1960s shots (third-seasonish). It’s like what one might imagine they could have done in a fourth or fifth season. CBS’s work looks invariably like something done today.

I see it as, CBS is trying to “update” the show commercially, while Daren wanted to “perfect” the show artistically. Both approaches have merit. Daren’s version is perhaps more staid than CBS’s but at the same time he avoids the clash of styles created by CBS’s work.

43. Mr. Atoz - February 9, 2007

Nice Work! The E looks beautiful! You should be proud of the work you have done here! Thanks for the time you put in. I can’t believe some of the comments from some people. Unbelievable!

44. Spockariffic - February 9, 2007

Daren, interesting take. It fails on the following level for me (and I hope CBS-D doesn’t fall into the same trap):

This is a chance to see the Enterprise moving and attacking in a dynamic way. Daren simply recreated the shots that existed for the most part. The same repeated cuts to the DDM with phaser hits. The geography of his battle sequence just doesn’t work as it didn’t in the original episode. The whole timing sequence of the Enterprise attacking and then getting caught in the tractor beam really doesn’t work. Decker’s whole battle plan is POINT BLANK and yet it’s firing from way far away and then gets caught in the tractor beam as if the Enterprise was just sitting there at 5 mph the whole time. I really hope Okuda/Rossi did their homework and figured out a way to make the battle dynamic and interesting. It’s got to be more than cool phasers. It’s got to make sense.

Thanks for the effort though Daren. Not my cup of tea, but I appreciate all your work.

45. Michael - February 9, 2007

To start with, this is my favorite TOS episode and I credit it with my becoming an engineer. if I could do better, and prove it, I might be in a position to be more critical but since I can’t let me start off by saying thanks Darren – I liked it and wish I had time to play around like that.

Like all of the remastered/enhanced work so far and including the original, there are parts I really like and parts I don’t and it seems that TOS will never be perfect.

For Example, in Darren’s version, there is a big-E pass-by that I REALLY REALLY like. It was repeated twice and was part of his early post a few days ago. I like it so much I’ve watched it several times over it is so good.

In the TOS original the old AMT model shots and the phaser shots bouncing off the DDM hull with a bubbling effect always bothered me – sorry, light and directed energy discharges don’t bubble like water. Since it has to match the dialog, at least it should reflect or refract off the surface. Thanks to both CBS-D and Darren for not recreating that!

BTW: Despite the obvious use of a commercial model in the “Kirk Does it Again” sequence, I burned up several of my ATM models in the early 70’s trying to make my own wrecked Constellation so go figure.

I love all the various shots, including the original, of the shuttle bay. I always thought it was their high water mark.

Can’t stand the old TV interference effect on the view screen in the Constellation’s auxiliary control room. I was a bit disappointed Darren reproduced that. Really folks, I realize they didn’t have a clue in 1967 what a malfunctioning computer screen might look like but really, it’s not “miss-aligned rabbit ears”.

The only thing I really didn’t like in Darren’s was the DDM’s anti-proton beam. As was mentioned here already, it looks like the Martian’s ray effect from the 50’s War of the Worlds. Sorry Darren. Please try again and culminate it down to a tighter beam. At least they got that somewhat right in the original even if we could see stars through both the E and the DDM.

Star fields at warp – TOS-whatever has never really made me think, “wow, that’s realistic looking”. I know this is likely to earn me a flame or two but the Doppler effect in TNG era shows (and the TOS movies for that matter) are more believable and consistent with everything I learned in physics.

46. Clinton - February 9, 2007

It was exciting to see Daren complete his quest.

Above all else, I thought his Enterprise model was VERY well done. During those close-up flybys, it looked amazing.

The only thing that puzzled me was what I guess I would call the contrast ratio. That is to say, the ships seemed to stand out too much against the background. But I will gladly admit that might be my LCD monitor and not the effects.

Thank you for sharing this with us, Daren.

47. Michael - February 9, 2007

BTW: Darren – thank you for making the scale of the shuttle to the DDM more- beleivable. In the original the shuttle looked bigger then the E!

48. YARN - February 9, 2007

39.

Have you seen his shots of the Enterprise in the director’s cut of the motion picture? This little reel here is what he did screwing around in his free time – and it is still the best looking version of the original series ship I have seen. Career suicide? If I was making a movie, he’d be one of the first people I would call.

To each his own, but at the very least one should be polite. Without Darren’s efforts we might not even have the CBS team’s project.

49. Michael - February 9, 2007

Also – sorry for the continued misspelling of your name, Daren :-)
I’m an Engineer, not a linguist!

50. Jay - February 9, 2007

Great job Daren, thanks for putting this up for us to see! We really enjoyed watching it, very nicely done!

51. Chunkay - February 9, 2007

Those effects were definitely on par with anything that CBS has put out, but the syndication cuts were pretty noticeable.

Please note sarcasm.

52. Thomas Jensen - February 9, 2007

Sheesh, give the guy a break. He did this on his own time because he loves the original Star Trek. What can be better then that? Is it perfect? Who knows? Personally…. I liked it. And I like what CBS has done. It’s a great time for us original series fans. Step back and ponder, they are actually updating the special effects! I, for one, certainly didn’t expect this and I welcome Mr. Dochterman’s version of one of my favorite episodes.

Thanks Mr. Dochterman.

53. Lee - February 9, 2007

Awesome, especially the destruction of the DDM! The Enterprise looked like the ideal model shots. Great work!

54. Spirit - February 9, 2007

I’m exhilirated! This gotta be some of the most real-looking space SFX i’ve ever seen – with models looking like real, three-dimensional, solid objects and not flat computer game sprites. If this wasn’t enough, this version is a faithful rendition of the 1960s design and lighting philosophy. A boldly lit Enterprise, at last, as it should be! Everything blends in perfectly and attention is paid to all important details (see the colorful, big stars for instance). This is remastered done right!

CBS, watch and learn. If one man can do it in his personal freetime and home resources, you sure can do it with your professional team and equipment.

55. Michael Hall - February 9, 2007

Daren,

What’s with the “lit squares” on the top of the primary hull winking in and out at 5:59? Rendering issue?

56. Michael - February 9, 2007

I’ve been watching TOS again because of the re-mastered stuff coming out, and I goda say that Star Trek is certainly not dead when you got quality work like this coming out.

Voyager and Enterprise were crap compared to TOS.

Very good job!

57. kaygee68 - February 9, 2007

If nothing else, Daren has proved his commitment to Star Trek by completing his labor of love and putting his money (and precious time) where his mouth is. Unlike some who are content to sit back and criticize others and say they could do so much better, he got off his ass and actually did something and shared it with fellow fans. I don’t know him personally, but simply by the way he has responded to criticisms of his work and questions about his motiviations, he seems like a class act.

58. Scott Gammans - February 9, 2007

kaygee68, Daren certainly showed infinitely more class than some of the uncouth loudmouths in this thread. I don’t know that I would have been as gracious in his shoes.

59. Commodore Z - February 9, 2007

I agree that it’s unfair to judge Daren so harshly. Like the folks who do New Voyages and Starship Exeter, Daren’s efforts are a celebration of fannish love for Star Trek. It’s all there to enjoy, flaws and all.

60. chris - February 9, 2007

wow, just wow.
Is it perfect, maybe not. But man, at times I thought I was really looking at model shots of the old E. Very nice work!

C

61. CmdrR - February 9, 2007

Congratulations, Daren! It’s obviously a labor of love. Your lighting of the E is subperb! Yes, even the deflector dish has the right color balance. I could list some nits, but this is a day to rejoice! In fact, it’s a whole weekend of partying like it’s Doomsday! Woo-hoo! (Someone make sure I don’t have the keys to the shuttle.)

62. Lao3D - February 9, 2007

Not to take anything away from CBS-D, but I know I for one will mourn a little bit not seeing Daren’s “retro” touch applied to the rest of the episodes. I remember having dreams from time to time as a kid that I had stumbled across a previously unseen episode of Trek [yes, sad, I know!] and his treatment somehow tapped into a little bit of that sensation. It was still good old Trek, just from an angle we’d never seen before, sharper, more polished.

Sure there are some things I’d nit-pick — too-big stars occasionally, not crazy about the bleaching of color suddenly after the PK’s demise — but overall he’s really made his case for the vision he had for the enhancement project. And I don’t know the guy from Adam, and in fact, was a little skeptical going in based on some of what I’d read and seen from him. But I get it now, and hope he get’s a chance someday to do more in this vein.

63. Picardsucks - February 9, 2007

very proud of you, beautiful stuff. Many criticize but few can actually do. The whole remasterd trek was originally your baby. Take a bow. Who would have evr thought we would be so fortunate to be getting these wonderful Star Trek goodies after all the horrible Trek of the 1990′s (except DS9 and Star Trek VI) Hell everyone was saying what we loved was dead. Now Daren , please tackle Trek V

64. Jim J - February 9, 2007

Frankly, I really like it, but the preview reel and still photos of CBS-D work has me even more fired up. What will be intersting to see is IF I feel that way afterwords. Daren, I am guessing you can’t show the episode as a whole because of copyright issues?? It’s understandable but a shame, because I truly think that might help some of the critics. Some people can’t handle the jarring cuts. Look at how much many of us bitch about the syndication cuts.
That Enterprise effect that you used in your preview video and used twice (or a variation of) was PERFECT. Some of the other shots I put right there with CBS-D’s…and a few I put with CBS-D’s poorer work. All in all, your work is comparable to their work, but it’s in your own way and style. Excellent effort and don’t let the critics get ya down. What goes around comes around. CBS-D has taken their share of hits and glorious praise…I’m guessing you’ll do the same.

65. Chris - February 9, 2007

YAWN..more fanwank

66. chris - February 9, 2007

Not terribly exciting. OK for what it is I guess, but that’s about all.

67. New Horizon - February 9, 2007

Well Chris, it’s like this. If you ‘get’ what Daren was trying to accomplish…it’s awesome…if you don’t ‘get it’…then you will likely perceive it as ho-hum. It’s not about flash, it’s not about being in your face. It’s a demonstration of restraint, respect and attention to a look that is hard to replicate. It’s no easy task to make CGI look like 60′s model work.

I suspect the majority of folks are going to say…”blah, cheesey fx”. Well, they look like the original effects, only better…and that’s what TOS was built on…and to be honest, I LOVED IT. :)

The CBS stuff looks great too…but it isn’t original Trek, it’s contemporary Trek shoehorned between live action shots.

68. Gary Seven - February 9, 2007

1) First and foremost, THANK YOU Daren! I’m so appreciative- as a boy I visualized “cooler” scenes in my head, and you can actually bring something like them to reality. What a skill! (Just remember what happened to Gary Mitchell).

2) I also want to express my appreciation for all those who stood up to the petty and cruel commentators. It’s ok to criticize, but not to be mean. I’m pretty new to postings on the web, but I’ve read how vicious and immature it can be in cyberspace, and I’m appreciative that all the mature people stood up for what’s right. If this continues this will be the place it should be.

3) As to the matter at hand, overall it was great. Loved the transluscent DDM, the E was magnificent, the floating “rubble” terrific. Some of the movements of the DDM and shuttle looked “jerky” and unreal, and a few shots looked too cartoonish/CGI. But overall wonderful work. Also, I know it has improved, and it’s been talked to death but the problems remains:
How come one man can get the color and essence of the nacelles right while a whole team at CBS can only make a bright orange cartoon? (I love their work too, but what’s up with this?)

Thanks Daren!

69. Marvin the Martian - February 9, 2007

Well, I guess I’ll be another one to throw cold water on this thread.

Let me say up front that the ship fly-bys of both Enterprise and Constellation are completely believable and really, really beautiful. The departure of the shuttlecraft from the Enterprise was also very nicely done… in both angles. The shuttlecraft movement felt just right.

However, the rest of the effects are pretty sub-par. The movement of the ships near the DM felt like something out of a video game, and not a modern one. (They also didn’t flow, continuity-wise. At times, the E was super close to the DM, then it wasn’t, all while the DM was controlling the E’s movements.) The DM itself was pretty clumsily animated, and its movement wasn’t natural, either. The phasers’ convergence upon the DM felt incorrect and jarring compared to how they “split off” from the Enterprise.

Much of this wouldn’t even have cut muster with what Babylon 5 did, as “video gamey” as their effects appeared at times.

I have to say that CBS-D has DD beat hands down on this ep, judging on what I’ve seen in their trailer. Yes, I know… DD only had himself with whom to create this, but the overall effect appeared really rushed and shoddy. Better to have taken more time to improve things and release it later this year.

Love the gorgeous fly-bys, but that’s about it for me.

70. foobar - February 9, 2007

Meh.

Still looking forward to the CBS-D version.

71. THEETrekMaster - February 9, 2007

Excellent work, Daren!!!!

You nailed the look perfectly…with the exception of that transparency on the DDM of course…;-)

Otherwise, BRILLIANT work…and BEAUTIFUL work!!! Well worth your hard work and our wait.

Picture perfect!

TTM

72. THEETrekMaster - February 9, 2007

Oh…and Daren…

I have to echo those who would love to see you do Star Trek V’s visuals. If anyone should do it…it should be you.

TTM

73. Buckaroohawk - February 9, 2007

When you put something out there for the public to view, you know you’re going to get criticism, both good and bad. Hell, you’re asking for it. If you’re lucky, the negative criticism will be as well-worded and precise as the positive. True critics understand and respect the hard work that goes into any artistic undertaking, even if the final product isn’t to their liking.

There are true critics here. People who know Mr. Dochterman put a great deal of care and skill into his version of “The Doomsday Machine.”

Then there are lowbrow knuckle-draggers who seem to thrive on tossing their own excrement onto the efforts of others. They don’t review, they don’t critique, and they don’t use (or have abandoned) their intellect in favor of acting like angry little monkeys. The only skill they’ve developed is the desperate attempt of belittling the considerable skills of others. For some reason, these people feel that because they have an internet connection, their voice and opinion counts as much as (or more than) anyone else’s.

They don’t. They’re pests, nothing more. They know who they are because before they fall asleep at night, that little voice in their head they try so hard to ignore reminds them how pathetic they are.

To those who have critiqued Mr. Dochterman’s work with intelligence, foresight and integrity, I salute you. You understand that even a negative critique can and should be constructive.

To those who consider phrases like “sh!t,” “…dresses up like Batman…” “career suicide,” and “fanwank” to be ligitimate criticism, I can only say that the human race will be better off when your ilk is finally squeezed out of the gene pool.

Mr. Dochterman, you are a better man that I for putting up with people like that. Keep smiling and keep producing your fantastic work. Kudos!

74. Daystrom Lives! - February 9, 2007

#72. You’re absolutely right. Daren’s take on “The Doomsday Machine” isn’t my cup of tea, but I respect the passion and the sweat that obviously went into it. The fact that it doesn’t measure up to the work of a big special effects house does not lessen the love that this guy obviously has for Star Trek.

75. Michael - February 9, 2007

Buckaroohawk I totally agree with you. It embarrasses me to read those kind of pointless jabs and it only serves to remind me why I stopped going to cons and even to this day I keep me “fanboy“ hat hidden in public for fear I get lumped into the same category as them.

It serves no one to be cruel when it is obvious that folks like Daren and the New Voyages & Exeter teams are putting their heart and soul into what they do. If you don’t like what they are doing and you can’t express it constructively then please don’t at all.

Here’s to all that keep the dream alive. I salute them all!!

76. Michael - February 9, 2007

BTW: Daren’s work on STMP was fantastic. The directors cut with the new effects makes it a really nice film now and I just want to say a much deserved and long overdue THANK YOU!

77. Rainman - February 10, 2007

Daren,

I just want to say “Thank you” for sharing your hard work and love for Trek with us.

78. Daystrom Lives! - February 10, 2007

That should be #73, BTW.

79. TomBot2007 - February 10, 2007

Whew! I’d love to see this, but since I’m barely on a dirt road next to the information super highway, I doubt I’d have the patience to wait.

It’s great though to see people’s stepping up to challenge the rancorous attitude of some posting on here.

I too endorse that it is an exciting time to be a TOS fan, even if XI doesn’t lead anywhere, just the possiblity and Remastered effort is a fun diversion!

I once went to a Halloween event dressed as a Star Trek red shirt and my then girlfriend as just some weird alien. Some putz compliments me on the accuracy of my outfit then proceeds to berate my girlfriend on her outfits inaccuracy. It didn’t ruin the evening, but in my mind, that guy’s forever an asshole to me. Why be a jerk? If you don’t like it, fine, but step out of yourself a minute and consider not everyone is you or even wants to be… ~:-p

80. DEMODE - February 10, 2007

I really love the look of the inside of the shuttle bay! This version looked more like the original then the CBS-D version did. All the colours where spot on. Great job!

81. Deckard - February 10, 2007

See, here’s the problem: it needs to be cleaned up here and there. Maybe I see these things because I’ve been in this business for more than 15 years. After a while you pick up little things like the bouncing DDM, the odd directions the phasers come from, how ships fly by, all these little things really distracts me from watching it. If it were cleaned up a bit it would look a little better. I think he needed someone over his shoulder showing him where the flaws were.

I just don’t get why people love it so much. Maybe it’s because I see the flaws and nobody else does.

82. Davy M - February 10, 2007

The shot of the E at 1:24 in looks EXACTLY like a cleaned up, sweetened original series FX shot IMHO. Nothing that CBS-d has done yet has equaled just this one shot.

83. Deckard - February 10, 2007

#82:

So you haven’t seen the opening shot from “The Cage” used in “The Menagerie” yet?

84. Davy M - February 10, 2007

yep, have, nope, IMHO

85. Buckaroohawk - February 10, 2007

Deckard (#81):

It’s not that we don’t see them, we just appreciate the overall quality despite the flaws. Even when ILM was at the top of its game in the mid 1980′s regarding FX model work, there were still flaws aplenty. They didn’t stop us from loving what we saw, though.

I appreciate when Mr. Dochterman did (and what CBS Digital does weekly) regardless of the flaws because I believe what he (and they) are doing gives me something new to look at, enhances the telling of these Trek stories, and sparks my imagination for my own CGI work. Overall, I’d say that’s more than I could ask for.

86. Reign1701A - February 10, 2007

I’ve been waiting for Mr. Dochterman to finish this project since I saw the early fx reel from years ago. This is my favorite TOS episode and he does it justice. The technical work is great, but I don’t dig the retro-feel. It feels too forced and artificial, especially the movement of the ships. I also didn’t like the starfield, moved way too fast. The E and Const. looked great and are closer to the original than CBS-D’s, although I think CBS-D’s versions look more realistic. I don’t like the transparency of the Doomsday Machine, but overall I like the look of DD’s than CBS-D’s…it’s more faithful to the original. The “nuclear furnace” is awesome. However the movement of the machine was way too awkward. I was also disappointed, as someone has mentioned, that he didn’t fix the geography of the battle, it has the same errors as the original. All in all, great work though, and I can’t wait for the full live action version to come out!

87. Steven Melching - February 10, 2007

My heartiest congratulations on finally completing your mission, and in such spectacular fashion. You have much to be proud of.

As for the nattering nabobs of negativity, it’s amusing to note that not one of them was brave enough to post their bile under their actual, full names. Way to hide behind anonymity, while Daren puts his money where his mouth is! To quote our favorite Vulcan, “As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to destroy than to create.”

88. Cervantes - February 10, 2007

To steal a recent quote from a certain regular contributor here Daren…

“WOW” !

89. paul austin - February 10, 2007

CBS digital could learn alot from the way the hull is lit here…the big E has mass again

90. Scott V. - February 10, 2007

This was absoulotly fantastic to watch. Just the amount of work that was involved made it worth watching. I would love to see these shots on a big screen.

91. brady - February 10, 2007

my JAB at Daren was cumlative of his remarks very early into tos-r. I didnt like his,I woulda done this they shoulda done that….I came up with the idea….etc. al gore invented the internet too! If he had blown me away Id be on the dd bandwagon,,,but he hasnt. close up shots look great…movement and phasers look silly,,,could I do better …no of course not…but i dont build up suspense and not back it up…however Great job on the kirk walking past the e viewscreen that was a great addition hope mike and the boys did the same. and kudos to dd on being able to take the heat as well as cbs-d has taken it from the pro DDers.

92. KT - February 10, 2007

This is simply outstanding work. I am impressed beyond words.

93. Herbert Eyes Wide Open - February 10, 2007

Firstly, thank you Daren… for your work, your efforts and your dedication to Star Trek which culminated in this labor of love.

Secondly, I LOOOVVVE your version of the Enterprise! I feel it captures the best of what the Big E should look like in CGI. Largely, because I think it looks closer to the original filming model than any other efforts to date.

When I was first introduced to your work whether viewing your “First Attempt” or the “Side by Side Comparison” I was gratified that you were pushing the envelope to truly re-imagine Star Trek. The shot dynamics… lighting choices… star-fields… virtual camera movement… All these things seemed to herald this wonderful potential of taking the images that are burned into our DNA and making them explode with new life… making them better certainly but more than anything… making them different.

I think that’s why my biggest criticism is the choice you made to adhere very closely in execution of your effects to the original episode. Certainly there are different camera angles and obviously the effects work is far superior to the original episode however I felt unfulfilled at the end of viewing your work. It was the same lack of fulfillment I experienced at CBS-D’s first few episodes.

Fortunately, they have much to everyone’s delight begun to really hit their stride by moving away from the standard “fly-bys” and stock shots that populated the original show. And, of course, there are all the little gems they’ve improved upon… matte paintings, phaser fire and chronometers, oh my!

It isn’t that I didn’t enjoy your efforts, I guess I had just hoped for more especially after your extraordinary work in the Director’s Edition of TMP. Again, it is all so subjective and my criticism is based upon something I perceived in your earlier work… something I wanted to see.

Fairly, as the artist, you made certain creative choices based on your vision and the resources and time available to you.

On another note, I very much echo the sentiments of Buckaroohawk et al.

The disconnection of posting makes it too easy to be flippant or glib or harsh or mean without paying attention to the fact that there’s this guy who simply wanted to create something… for himself… for other fans… and he did it without remuneration… he did it simply ’cause he loves Trek.

I said this once before… I wonder how ardently some of the less evolved posters here would have attacked Daren’s work or him personally had he been sitting across a dinner table from them or having a cup of coffee together or elbowed at a bar. Might they have the same opinion? I’m sure they would… but my guess is the commentary wouldn’t be nearly as inflammatory.

It is easy to be kind… respectful… civil… even if you aren’t a fan of Daren’s version.

The way you do it is put yourself in the other guy’s shoes… see yourself frustrated because a shot isn’t working exactly the way you wanted… or the joy you take when you make a lighting choice and the Enterprise looks magnificent… or you wake up and look at the bags under your eyes because of too little sleep… or your girlfriend is pissed because tonight was supposed to be “her” night but you’re behind schedule… or fill in your own personal sacrifice for the act of creating because big or small… nothing gets created without sacrifice. By the way… It’s called empathy.

So, Daren… again, thanks for your good work… your efforts and your sacrifice. Best to you and yours.

94. Jon - February 10, 2007

It seems like you have to download and buy some software to view this.i really don’t want to buy anything to see a FX trailer.Is there a way I can click something and view it for free?

95. CmdrR - February 10, 2007

95 – Thanks for asking. I thought I was the only one who didn’t have proper pirating skills. Saw this at work, where a friend downloaded it. The E is wonderful. The anti-proton weapon, not so much. Some of the shots are great, others look like forced cell animation. It’s a tremendous effort, and is greatly appreciated. If we all spit on our palms and swear to pay $59.95 per season for a 40 year old show, will Paramount hire Dochterman and CBS-D and let them do this right before they release it on DVD??

96. CmdrR - February 10, 2007

Ah… so much nicer to work at home, where I’m not distracted from Trek by pesky bosses.

http://www.creativedigitalmoments.com/publicfilms.html

97. Tony - February 10, 2007

HerbertEyesWideOpen, I could not agree with you more!!
Perfectly said.
Hats off to Daren D.

As for ObiWanCon, he can eat his words, LITERALLY!!… lol

98. OM - February 10, 2007

…Bah. The fact that it was made available on one of those bulls’hit “pay extortion or suffer through popups and time delay” file “sharing” sites really detracted from the experience.

99. Matt Wright - February 10, 2007

#98 — Daren has a simple blog, with the bandwidth to match, he doesn’t have the bandwidth to deal with all the downloads, so he used RapidShare to get it out there quickly. You’ll notice he added mirrors of a more traditional sort as well.

100. Jon - February 10, 2007

Thanks#96 Cmdr.

101. Sybok - February 10, 2007

My surprise is the Daren chose to duplicate the original so much that even the battle choreography against the doomsday machine was almost identical to the original. CBS Digital has chosen to go out on a limb, and update it.

I am delighted to have to wonderful examples, and for all you critics, buy your Powerbooks and Lightwave software, and have at it!

102. ZtoA - February 10, 2007

I give a huge thanks to Darren. Thanks, Man!! The new life being breathed into trek by him and CBS-D is nearly overwhelming… I’m willing to bet a c-note that within a couple of years we’re going to see TOS recasted and reshot for TV and their first episode should be a complete re-make of Doomsday… hell make it a two-parter with a second DDM arriving shortly after the first is nuked… even better… have the 2nd DDM revive the first one and they both head to Rigel. Now that would be one hell of a kick-off for the new adventers… Are you listening Sci-Fi channel???

My writer’s fee is double scale plus 10%… LOL :-)

Live long and prosper… y’all…

103. jonboc - February 10, 2007

Nice job! I love the work CBS does, and this was great fun as well. Can’t get too much of this sort of thing. I enjoyed it very much, thanks for the effort!

104. Tony - February 10, 2007

re: #102

An interesting idea ZtoA.

But I definitely think the 2 -hour episode should START with the Constellation entering sector L-374 and engaging the Planet Killer!
What a battle scenario that would make for some serious SFX, huh?!

105. Michael Hall - February 10, 2007

“Deckard” and the others of his ilk still don’t get it. Daren’s work is not above, or immune from, criticism–not should it be. But there’s a big difference between offering-up reasons why you didn’t like something and pointless denigration of someone else’s hard work. Pointless denigration would be using words like “sucks,” “career suicide,” “can I get the last 20 minutes of my life back?”, etc.

Constructive criticism, OTOH, goes something like this:

“Daren, IMHO your introduction of the planet-killer was, unfortunately, something of a botch. The original managed to be menacing not because (as the dialogue states) it’s fast and maneuverable, but because it’s uber-powerful and relentless. Your having the machine almost turn on a dime reduces the sense of scale and the awe we should have for the threat it poses. Since your previous version of the shot pretty much duplicated the original (with the added bonus of the planetary rubble drifting from its maw), this was probably just the result of your over-thinking the concept while wanting to put your own spin on it.”

See? Not so hard, and no more personal than Dochterman’s own critique of the CBS-D team’s work. But somewhere along the line, your mommas apparently didn’t teach you about playing nice with others. Too bad, Deckard, but maybe you’d like to provide us a link to some of that work you’ve been doing for the past 15 years. No doubt it would be instructive, as would be our reactions.

106. Anthony Pascale - February 10, 2007

critiques of work are fine for DD as they are for CBS-D. The only thing I dont like to see are personal attacks on either.

I think that all the work has merit and amazing qualities and in both cases there are things I may have done different but those things are a matter of taste. In the case of Daren’s work it is important to realise it is one guy in his spare time as a labor of love…that alone makes it very impressive.

107. Dennis Bailey - February 10, 2007

#105: “But somewhere along the line, your mommas apparently didn’t teach you about playing nice with others”

Too true. A friend of mine used to have a sig that read “Criticism is a life without risk.”

Of course, everyone has a right to their opinion. That right, however, doesn’t guarantee that the content of their opinion is worth a spit – as demonstrated by several of the meaner, dumber negative posts in this topic.

108. ZtoA - February 10, 2007

Re 104

“But I definitely think the 2-hour episode should START with the Constellation entering sector L-374 and engaging the Planet Killer!” – Tony

Oh yeah… and better yet… show the drama of Decker’s efforts to save his crew on the doomed planet as well as the details of their demise as Decker looks and listens helplessly… It would provide the perfect backdrop and motivation for his later take-over of E.

The remake would absolutely-positively have to show a planet being carved up and devoured.

109. Tony - February 10, 2007

Re: 104

Great idea!

Especially the part on the torment Decker goes thru watching the 3rd planet being gobbled up as his crew cries for help. And your suggestion as to expanding on his motivation to quote regulations in order to commandeer the Enterprise in order to exact his revenge on the Planet Killer.

I think we have the makings of another Hugo Award winner here…

110. ZtoA - February 10, 2007

Re #109

“Great idea! Especially the part on the torment Decker goes thru watching the 3rd planet being gobbled up as his crew cries for help. And your suggestion as to expanding on his motivation to quote regulations in order to commandeer the Enterprise in order to exact his revenge on the Planet Killer. I think we have the makings of another Hugo Award winner here… ” – Tony

Oh no… I smell Emmy here… LOL

On a small technical side note… we couldn’t kill one machine… how do we kill two? Keep in mind that one of them is really PO’d about being force-fed a 100 meg nuke.

Hmmm… I’ll have to noodle on that one… hmmm

111. Jon - February 10, 2007

104 & 108.We don’t necessarily have to wait for a re-casted TOS crew.I suggested in a previous post that paramount shoot new authenticTOS footage.Both live action and special effects to compliment an existing TOS Star Trek episode and turn it into a 1-1/2 of 2 hr Trek TV event.Imagine a storyline with subplots that support the story of an existing classic episode with the newest CGI effects (sister ships ,starbases etc.) and new live footage(perhaps aboard the bridge a enterprise sister ship).I believe” The Untimate Computer” would be an ideal episode for EXPANDED VISION STAR TREK.

112. Jon - February 10, 2007

HEY EVERYBODY!! READ MY POST # 111 AND THE BUNNY RABBIT GET’S TO LIVE!!

113. Dip Thong - February 10, 2007

It’s not a personal attack to speculate on DD’s motivations behind this project because his history and timing open the door to such speculation. We can accept his explanation that it’s simply a “labor of love” and leave it at that, but why should we? No one can say this is true with any accuracy any more than one can say he’s “bitter”. We just don’t know.

What we DO know is that it was HIS decision to pick THIS episode and HIS decision to rush to get his work done by THIS weekend. We also know that he is not a normal fan doing a fan film as a “hobby”. He pitched this concept to the powers that be and was rejected. Then when the powers that be decided to go ahead with a similar project, they didn’t call him. He himself expressed disappointment at this decision. When an artist rejected for a project decides to go ahead with the same project he was rejected for and release it ONE DAY before the official version debuts, I’m sorry but THAT RAISES EYEBROWS. And it is FAIR to speculate as to why. DD could’ve chosen another episode, one airing next season for example, or he could’ve waited a month, a week, or even a few days to let CBS-D display their work. But he didn’t. He rushed to release it 24 hours before CBS-D’s version. It’s fair to wonder why. Its also fair to not immediately accept the claim that it’s motivated by “love”. And to curtly dismiss such speculation as “uninformed” or “wrong” only fuels that speculation, whether true or not.

The fact remains that now we are in a situation where it’s impossible to debate the merits of CBS-D’s work on this episode without DD’s version entering into the debate. Already we see fans picking and choosing pro-DD and pro-CBS-D sides, frequently with hostile results. While sometimes these debates are inevitable, the timing here is significant because DD’s decision to release his version 24 hours BEFORE CBS-D’s version seems intended to draw a direct comparison between the two. Now, some would say, “So? What’s the harm?” Here’s the harm. It’s disrespectful to the artists at CBS-D, the guys who DID get the contract for Remastered, to have DD invite himself to their party. Whether DD is friends with the people at CBS-D or whether the people there mind what he’s doing is irrelevant. Again, DD is not a joe-shmo fan. His background and history with this project brings a “this is what it COULD have been” dimension to the debate whether DD wants to acknowledge it or not. No one wants their hard work critiqued under such a situation, friends or not. In fact, it’s fair to speculate that DD’s rush to get HIS work out BEFORE CBS-Ds is in part motivated by this very point.

It’s also creates unnecessary volatility among the fans. This very thread is evidence. It’s true Trek fans are notoriously passionate about the show, and don’t always play nice, but DD surely knew he was throwing gas onto smoldering coals. Yet he went ahead anyway. With THIS episode. THIS weekend. 24 hours BEFORE CBS-Ds. That’s why I object to the suggestion that any speculation about DD’s motives are somehow out of bounds. These were his decisions. He’s a “big boy”. And he can’t have it both ways. He can’t boast of his Trek resume and the legitimacy it gives him as a Trek alum when it suits him and then pull back and say, “but now I’m just a fan showing you my hobby.” Not with this episode. Not with his history. Not this weekend.

That being said, no one is denying — certainly not I — that DD isn’t talented. He’s very talented. His work is inspiring, not so much because of what it says about Trek, but what it says about the power of one artist working on their own with limited resources. We’re entering a truly amazing era in visual storytelling where artists are increasingly liberated from the money, pressure and politics of Hollywood. I truly believe DD is leading the way in this regard. That’s commendable. And I look forward to seeing what he does next.

114. Dennis Bailey - February 10, 2007

#113:”It’s not a personal attack to speculate on DD’s motivations behind this project.”

This late in the day and after so many go-arounds it not only *is* that – it’s quite tiresome.

If you can’t let this rest, let the rest of us. ;)

115. Nelson - February 10, 2007

I was going to stay out of this thread because it’s a minefield!

Mr. Dochterman made a very nice “sketch” to demonstrate his vision of the new CGI effects. He’s said he’s not a CGI specialist. Even in Star Trek- The Motion Picture, he didn’t do the work, but managed and drove the effects.

His vision is out there now and we can see how he would render the ships and block out the action. Some if it was very nice and some didn’t quite make it, such as the Planet Killer turning on a dime and the anti-proton beam.

But I had a thought, even if Daren Dochterman was hired on this whole project, Rossi and the Okuda’s would still be working on this and driving the vision. So it would still have been a colaborative effort with Daren’s input. One that we can only imagine because I’m sure the results would not be as they are now! In either version.

116. Kev - February 10, 2007

Excellent . His Enterprise is the best CGI of the ship I’ve seen. His “faceoff” shots of the machine and ship are stunning. The phasers have power and force. I won’t compare this to CBS, because I’m predisposed to see Trek as an infinitely optimistic show, and I prefer the brighter color palette of the orignal. But, some obviously like it. Still, I like the original Doomsday best; the physical models just have more presence to me, and the shot choices just seemed to serve the story, rather than the spectacle.. And some decisions; like using the big shuttle which was out of scale were probably just made because of time and money. Sometimes all these extra details are distracting; the acting and story were Trek’s strengths anyway. Don’t want to beat a dead horse; this is great stuff and very much in the spirit of the original show. Bottom line; he did a great job and I’m overloaded by Doomsday about now.

117. Michael Hall - February 10, 2007

“#113:”It’s not a personal attack to speculate on DD’s motivations behind this project.”

Since he has written at fairly exhaustive length on the very subject of why he chose to complete and release this project when he did, your “speculations” as to his motives are, in essence, painting him a liar. And that’s not a personal attack in your book? Okay.

“This late in the day and after so many go-arounds it not only *is* that – it’s quite tiresome.

If you can’t let this rest, let the rest of us.”

Count your blessings–at least it’s a posting that doesn’t mention the dreaded turbolift offset.

118. MJPollard - February 10, 2007

Politics and motivations and personal attacks aside, I’ll just say that I’m going to have fun creating my own full version of the episode using DD’s F/X reel. I ripped the original episode from DVD, converted it to AVI (retaining the 23.976 frame rate), and converted the F/X XviD AVI to a format more easily editable (and widened the frame to 720×480). Now that the episode and F/X AVIs match, I’ve begun the process of splicing in the new F/X shots into the original episode, and so far they’re matching up beautifully.

Sure, I could’ve waited for DD to post the whole episode, but this gives me the chance to stretch my video editing muscles (and besides, DD may never post the whole thing due to copyright concerns). Plus, I can put the DD “Enhanced” version and the CBS “Remastered” version onto one DVD (and if I ever get around to getting a dual-layer burner, I can throw the original version on there, too).

This is gonna be a fun weekend!

119. Michael Hall - February 10, 2007

MJPollard–that’s exactly why Docterman’s work is a such a gift, and know-nothing criticisms of his motives or its quality so petty and mean-spirited: it gives us a chance to see alternative visions of something we all have a comman fondness for, which should make for some good-natured controversy and debate (it’s only a friggin’ TV show, after all–it’s not like a pre-emptive war or something that’s getting folks killed as we speak). And for the creative types among us like yourself, it’s an inspiration for working on your own projects and skill-sets. In anyone’s book, I would think that would be a good thing.

120. Dr. Image - February 10, 2007

Before anyone else bashes Daren’s work, they should check out his resume and accomplishments- things most fanboys would kill to have.
This effort is hardly “career suicide.” Please.
BTW, notice the overlay of his CG-E in shots in the closing credits. Sneaky guy.

121. chris - February 10, 2007

Some of use don’t give a damn about Daren’s resume. We base our opinion only on the final result.

In this case, an ok, but not particularly compelling result.

122. Mark - February 10, 2007

Deckard – M Hall beat me to it: You forgot to provide a link to your work so we can compare it to Daren’s. Please provide that right away, ok?

And it’s sad that dip is at it again. Unless you have information other than your baseless speculation regarding Daren’s motivation, stop calling him a liar, quit being a jerk, and shut the hell up. You must have a pathetic little life.

123. Magic_Al - February 10, 2007

^118. Me too! I downloaded the largest .mp4 version, converted a rip of my DVD to .mp4, and dropped both files into an .mp4 project in iMovie. The downloaded video is excellent quality, only slightly blurrier than my DVD rip, so it’s a pretty good match. Almost all the shots match up within a frame or two (I added or removed frames as necessary to maintain sync with the uncut DVD audio). The hardest edits were the viewscreen-walk scenes; I cut to the correct in/out frames but a little jump is unavoidable. I didn’t use Daren’s transporter effects because those would have been jumpy cuts too.

One tricky part to edit is when Decker flies into the planet killer; Daren didn’t match the original editing and cut the last shot of Kirk before Decker dies to make the shot of the shuttle entering the maw longer. I put Kirk back in, kept Daren’s longer shot and cut some of the not-good-looking burry fire after Decker vanishes to get back in sync.

I used the TrekEnhanced “commercial” as the background for my DVD menu and one of Daren’s distant shots of the Enterprise for a chapter menu, and my disc is almost done encoding right now! I should have time to watch it on TV before the CBS version airs tonight. :-D

124. chris - February 10, 2007

It’s idiotic to put the onus of “well, show me how you can do better!” on someone for the crime of merely expressing a subjective opinion.

It’s akin to sarcastically saying “Gee, you don’t like that bestselling book? Show me the bestselling book you wrote!”. “Don’t care for that blockbuster movie? Show me the last one you directed? I mean, you do know you need to be a director to be able to express an opinion on film right?” Yeesh.

Folks should be able to express opinion without some dork telling them they can’t unless they’re an author, painter, director, writer, etc. themselves. Very intellectually dishonest to require this, as many (most?) professional reviewers do not even meet that criteria.

So kindly don’t insult us with this nonsense.

125. Michael Hall - February 10, 2007

*Sigh* Amazing how you have to keep explaining this. . .

The issue isn’t that “Deckard” has to prove that he could better Daren Docterman’s work himself in order to have a critical opinion of it. I play with CGI myself as a hobby, and will sadly never begin to equal his talent–and yet I will have no trouble writing about what I found wrong with his his version of “Doomsday” when the time comes. But “Deckard” (along with “foobar” and “brady”) wasn’t just being critical; he was going out of his way to be a jerk. Sorry, but Dochterman’s efforts–whether you think they paid off or not–deserved better, just as a matter of common courtesy. And under those circumstances, such people may rightly be told themselves to put up or shut up.

126. Herbert Eyes Wide Open - February 10, 2007

#113. Dip Thong

I’m guessin’ you didn’t take my suggestion…

About the Snickers, I mean. Mmmmm, too bad ;)

127. Michael Hall - February 10, 2007

From what I’ve heard, no one’s gonna be eating them Snickers bars anymore after seeing that commercial, so I guess you and I will have them all to ourselves.

128. chris - February 10, 2007

At #125.

I was referring to specifically nonsense found in this thread such as “You forgot to provide a link to your work so we can compare it to Daren’s. Please provide that right away, ok?’” Telling people to “put up or shut up” is pretty silly. You don’t know them and they don’t know you. That you let sometimes petty comments get to you so much says more about you than them. :)

129. Longwinded - February 10, 2007

#124 Chris

I think you need to fully understand what has brought about the put up or shut up point you were referring to in your post.

In post #81 Deckard stated the following:

See, here’s the problem: it needs to be cleaned up here and there. Maybe I see these things because I’ve been in this business for more than 15 years. After a while you pick up little things like the bouncing DDM, the odd directions the phasers come from, how ships fly by, all these little things really distracts me from watching it. If it were cleaned up a bit it would look a little better. I think he needed someone over his shoulder showing him where the flaws were.

I just don’t get why people love it so much. Maybe it’s because I see the flaws and nobody else does.

That’s the whole post, nothing taken out context. Now notice his line “Maybe I see these things because I’ve been in this business for more than 15 years”. Now to me and maybe I’m wrong here but that says he’s been in this business for the past 15 years. So the next question would be what has done in this business for the past 15 years? He should have a similar resume as Daren then right? I mean 15 years as a CGI artist he should have some impressive credentials too, right?

“Maybe it’s because I see the flaws and nobody else does”.
He not only attacks Daren but the rest of us as well BECAUSE we aren’t attacking Daren’s work in a mean spirited way like he is.

“I think he needed someone over his shoulder showing him where the flaws were”.

Maybe the only way he has been in this business for the past 15 years was looking over somebody else’s shoulder while they did all the work.

Maybe I being a jerk, maybe I’m not but Deckard what do you think your post sounded like? It’s not the first time you have mentioned your years in the business. Well then, as someone else has already said and I will reiterate it for you…put up or shut up.

130. Michael Hall - February 10, 2007

“Telling people to “put up or shut up” is pretty silly. You don’t know them and they don’t know you. That you let sometimes petty comments get to you so much says more about you than them.”

Oh, really? And how well do you know me, then?

Shorter Chris: taking the time to call someone on their “petty comments”doesn\’t speak very highly of you, but my commenting on what you wrote is just peachy.

131. Stanky McFibberich - February 10, 2007

Please take it outside.

132. chris - February 10, 2007

The point is. Folks should be able to express their opinion without feeling the need to justify it to others.

Sometimes I subjectively feel something is good or bad and just want to give a final take on it (i.e. “not too impressive, great, kind of blah, etc.) Sometimes those opinions are offered up, not to convince anyone to also feel that way, but merely express how one is feeling themselves about something. If a negative impression is thus offered, I (or others) don’t owe you, Daren, or anyone else one damn thing in way of justification.

At #130 – I don’t know you at all and also not telling you to “put up or shut up”. (which is a pretty silly way to try to marginalize someone’s subjectively held opinion). In fact I’m perfectly peachy with you saying whatever you wish. It’s no skin off my teeth if one wishes to look foolish by being supportive of that “put up or shut up” goofiness.

133. Robert Meyer Burnett - February 10, 2007

Hmmm.

I haven’t read this deep into a thread since PHANTOM MENACE came out, much less posted in same thread.

First off, Daren’s original concept for the TREK ENHANCED project originated with the idea of re-doing TOS’s most effects-heavy episode, so it seems only natural for him to complete his initial effort.

Releasing the finished product this weekend would be the obvious choice, since fans can compare and contrast the two approaches, which is the whole point of Daren finishing his version.

The CBS approach and Daren’s approach are in direct opposition of one another, which makes direct comparison rather interesting. CBS decided to re-imagine the effects work of the original, mostly because of how the original multi-layered and optically printed efx would’ve looked in HD. Not great. So they took the opportunity to update the original series to make it more accessible for today’s jaded audiences, breathing new life into a 40 year old television program. They’ve succeeded.

Daren’s approach is just what he says it is…enhancement. His work painstakingly attempts to recreate what might have been 40 years ago had there been more advanced tools to work with.

Personally, I applaud each effort.

However, the CBS effort, while having many talented folks behind it, was compromised from the very beginning because of the limited budget afforded them by the studio. They don’t have enough money to fully realize their ambitions, which is why they’ve been constantly striving to make their efforts better by stretching their dollars as they move through the series.

But I remember a Klingon mentioning once that ten thousand throats could be cut in one night by a running man. I’d like to think that’s kinda’ what Daren did with his version.

He’s put himself and his efforts out there for all to see, provoking just the kind of discussion we’ve had here (well, some of us).

So what have you all done today?

134. Robert Meyer Burnett - February 10, 2007

Folks,

What I believe is most important regarding Daren’s work is his desire to retain the historical legacy of the Original Series. His work doesn’t try to update the look and feel of the show through today’s sensibilities, which is exactly what the CBS approach does.

This is the single greatest difference between both approaches and I’m surprised there’s been so little debate about it.

135. Deckard - February 11, 2007

#129:

Have you watched the CBS version? That was damn impressive. Now tell me the DD version is as good.

136. Longwinded - February 11, 2007

#135:

Unfortunately I haven’t seen any of the CBS versions but hopefully when my tour in the sand is done I can. Oh and let me apologize to you, it was just another bad day here and I lashed out. Sorry, it just sounded like some of the Fobbits we have around here complaining to us about this and that. They say they can do better but then they never leave the FOB to prove it and these guys are the ones in charge who do this complaining. So it just sounded eerily familiar.

137. Robert Meyer Burnett - February 11, 2007

Deckard,

Oh…I think the CBS version was impressive…however, I’m not now, nor have I ever been, a fan of how the movement of Starships is portrayed in modern, CGI Trek.

When the CBS version of Trek is good (“Space Seed,” “Journey to Babel”), I all in favor of it. But I’m from the school which still thinks TMP, WOK, SFS and TUC nailed the portrayal of Starships in flight.

While I loved seeing rubble bounce off the hull of the Constellation in the CBS version, I felt the Enterprise flying through asteroids was not believable. That’s what the navigational deflector is for.

Ultimately, I prefer Daren’s approach, because it more accurately reflects the origins of the original program…and his model of the Enterprise is simply much more effective.

Now…bring on “The Immunity Syndrome” and “The Ultimate Computer…”

138. KDoug - February 11, 2007

I thought it was pretty good! :) In terms of the Constellation’s wreckage, it isn’t as realistic as CBS Digital’s take (and I generally appreciate realism), but I did particularly love the shots of the Enterprise. The old girl has never looked better. And even if it wasn’t the original intention to have the Doomsday Machine be translucent, I thought that Daren’s take on it was 100% valid. It served to make the Machine look more alien and eerie.

139. Mark - February 11, 2007

132: “Folks should be able to express their opinion without feeling the need to justify it to others.”

It’s one thing to express an opinion, it’s another to be a complete jerk and denigrate someone (esp someone who you know reads this board). To say something like “I would have preferred if….” or “I thought the way they did….” is one thing. It’s another to be a complete jackass as some on this board were. The implication is they can do better. Well, then let’s see it.

140. pat - February 11, 2007

daren’s version is superoiu.the ships look real not computer generated
they look like filmed models!!! love it..i say have daren do the whole series for dvd’s

141. Deckard - February 12, 2007

137 – You proved my point. People here have no clue what good CGI is. Look how TDM turns on its front axis. You talk about how spaceships SHOULD look, and that movement is laughable. I wonder if people like this just because it’s fan Trek.

142. Jim J - February 12, 2007

#140-Filmed models? Some of the time, yes, but not in all of the shots.

143. Big Bill Cox - February 12, 2007

Even though I like DD’s version, I still think CBS’s is better. On the other hand, they have a crew of people working on their product, whereas Darren is just one guy and this is his labor of love. So he deserves kudos for that at least.

144. OV-101 - February 12, 2007

I have been waiting for Daren’s product to be released for a while now so I watch with anticipation. As people have posted before I thought the Enterprise looked just like the original model (color, etc.). The Constellation was good too. I do not want to criticize someone elses work, especially when it was all done on one’s own dime, but I wanted to make a few comments.

First, I thought the stars were not done very well. Their motion is similar to the original opening of “The Cage”. I am glad they’re not streaked like in TNG but I think they need more depth. The other major gripe was the doomsday machine itself. I think Daren stuck too close to the original FX. I didn’t like the stars moving with the machine and the maw looked as cartooish as the original. It was also too transparent. I think the machine need to be even larger. The one thing I liked about the CBS digital version is that it looks much more ominous just by its size alone.

Now, comparing the two techniques, I say that CBS Digital did a super job with the external effects. I like their machine better and I like how CBS portrayed a denser asteroid field, where the plantets one stood. I do give Daren a nod for his work on the Enterprise itself. She is definitely a beauty. I give CBS digital a nod for their work on the Constellation. I thought the damage was slightly overdone but it was awsome nonetheless.

So, in general, if we took DarenDoc’s Enterprise and CBS’s Doomsday machine effects I think the result would have been awsome, IMHO. Daren deserves much credit for his work and I hope he gets to work on future Trek projects.

Good work done by both camps. Lots of eye candy!!

145. sunspot - February 12, 2007

Well, I saw the CBS Digital version of this episode last night, and downloaded Daren’s version of the effects today. I have to say that both had their strengths and weaknesses.

1) Daren’s Enterprise and Constellation models are vastly superior to the ones CBS Digital uses. I don’t know if it’s the proportions, or the textures or the lighting (I suspect it’s the lighting), but Daren’s models look almost identical to the original filming models from the ’60s. CBS Digital’s work looks like a videogame, very flat, CGI and fake. Their asteroids looked awful, too (although the shot of one bouncing off the hull of the Constellation looked good, and was a clever touch). I did like the hull damage on the CBS Digital Constellation model, where you could see inside the decks, but I thought Daren’s burning nacelles were even cooler, especially the way they lit the saucer (and went out as the episode progressed).

At least the deflector dish on the CBS Digital version is finally copper-colored . . .

2) Daren’s planet killer rules over the CBS Digital version. I love how he captured the blue, luminous quality of the original, and the sparkly quality of its internal fires. Neither of them carried quite the suggestion of mass though that the original model had. Some of the moves they made – especially the spins on their axis – were perhaps best left unshown.

3) The explosion that destroyed the planet killer was much cooler in Daren’s version. I loved how the color drained from the machine when it “died”. The CBS Digital version was pretty corny in comparison, I thought. What’s with the blue pixie dust? Very videogame. Daren kept in the transparency of the original, which made it seem to be carved from a solid hunk of some kind of exotic crystal or mica. Alien and somewhat eerie.

4) CBS Digital took more liberties with the geometry of the battle, as others have noted, repositioning the ships and radically adjusting the apparent trajectories and approaches used by the various combatants. Daren stayed true to the original blocking. I think CBS Digital made the right call here – their version makes much more sense than the original, and is more exciting to watch. I just wish their ships carried some suggestion of mass as they moved.

5) Blue phasers RULE. CBS Digital made the right call here, too.

6) Daren’s shuttlebay exit copied and enhanced the original. CBS Digital reworked the shot, but their shuttle just looks way too big and the shot was – yet again – kind of videogame.

7) Both versions showed the impulse engines blazing away. How cool is that?

8) Both versions kept the TV tuner effect on the Constellation’s viewscreen. Faithful, but it doesn’t make a lot of sense. You’d think CBS Digital would have updated it.

9) For once, CBS left dark some of the interior scenes that were supposed to be dark. I wish the guy they had day-glow brightening every live action shot in earlier episodes had spent his time brightening up their new effects shots, instead.

In all, I’d say Daren’s version had better models, better lit. But I loved the way CBS Digital restaged the battles. In an ideal world, we’d see the CBS Digital version re-done with Daren’s models and more realistic physics for the massive starships and planet killer.

146. tuc - February 12, 2007

My local station pre-empted the remastered Doomsday for sports, so I stil haven’t seen it, but it sure seems that Dochterman pays more attention to lighting and hull texture than CBS Digital does.

When the lighting is right, it’s easy for one’s brain to miss it and just take it for granted. I think this has happened to some of the brains that have criticized Dochterman’s work on this forum.

It sometimes seems like CBS Digital either doesn’t care or is ignorant of lighting issues. It feels like they need someone like Dochterman (not necessarily Dochterman himself) on staff to veto the occasional shot and make a few pointed suggestions.

#113: “he could’ve waited a month, a week, or even a few days to let CBS-D display their work”

I’m not sure why Dochterman’s timing bothered you, but if he had done as you suggest he would have left himself open to criticism that he had cribbed from CBS Digital’s work. With the near-concurrent release we know that the work is his own. (Though I guess one could argue he could have cribbed from some of the stuff CBS Digital pre-released.)

147. sunspot - February 13, 2007

>It sometimes seems like CBS Digital either doesn’t care or is
>ignorant of lighting issues.

Well, they’ve got the Okudas managing the effects work on the remastered series over at CBS Digital. While I think they did a fantastic job on the Next Gen and its spawn, designing two-dimensional elements and such, I don’t think they really get how to compose three-dimensional shots and elements. It’s a different skillset from their 2-D background, it requires the eye of a cinematographer, and not many people have that. They don’t seem to have an instinctive understanding of lenses and lighting the way they probably need to, which is a problem since they seem to be under amazing time pressures. If they had the time I’m sure they could just fiddle around with shots ’till they found the angles that looked “right” – given their design background I’m sure they must realize something is “wrong” with a lot of their shots, compositionally – but they don’t have that luxury.

148. Jeff - February 19, 2007

Is the mistake in the shot after the first attack of the Doomsday Machine where the Enterprise flies by the camera and the window (I am guessing it is a window, looks like a white square) on the rear side of the saucer section disappears? This scene is about 5 minutes and 55 seconds into the wmf file.

149. Me - April 26, 2007

A lot of wannabes but so little actual DOERS.

Hey, whinners, can you do better?

Put your being where your mouth is and DO something…although americans are the kings of procrastinations…no wonder stuff gets done by legal immigrants (NOT born in the US) and illegal aliens (got through the customs unionized idiots)

Good work Daren!

150. Batts - May 18, 2007

Still would like to see what improvements can be done to “Who mourns for Adonais”? Apollo’s hand? The ships firing on apollo’s temple? Perhaps showing the distance of travel between the ship in orbit and when Apollo is firing on them with his thunderbolts? Remember, Spock asked kirk is there a structure or some type near him to fire on!! MAybe highlighting that this was almost shooting in the dark, perhaps that POV can be shown!! This episode needs work.

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