Don’t go bashing Cosmos, that was the greatest f-ing documentary ever commited to tape.

Anyway, I agree that the endless technobabble was a major failing of TNG/Voy. I think a major factor in the success of the new film will depend on an absence of technobabble.

Monetary motives, however, I would tend to agree with. Berman may well have put his own financial interests over the quality and integrity of Trek, espeically toward the end of his reign. Either that, or, as you said, incompetence. I just don’t say any other way to explain so much dumbed-down, bad art.

His quality control paradigm seems to have shifted at some point, where we see the valuation of the superficial over the substantial, and, the appeal to our eyes over our hearts and minds.

As has been said, Nemesis looked pretty good. But, it wasn’t pretty good. Enterprise was the best-looking Trek show to date. Nuff said.

Though, to be fair, this shift has been happening in Hollywood, across the board.

Zero complaints about the VFX. In fact, I loved the gritty, almost alien look to the E’s interior. It’s a shame we’ll probably never see it fly again.

Sad.

I’d love to think Gene Roddenberry had everything to do with the success of TOS and TNG, and that Berman had everything to do with the fall of all things Trek. It’d be simple. It would give me a specific person to be upset with.

Roddenberry created the TOS and TNG characters, and much of the series’ “bibles”. He had a good hang of what characters might or might not do. He knew the future his show was supposed to represent. He also took a lot of credit for things that he didn’t come up with. Some of the best TOS episodes were the brainchild of a writer. I’m not giving Roddenberry credit for Mirror Mirror, or City on the Edge, or The Trouble With Tribbles. Those episodes were the product of someone else’s creative writing!

All I know is that DS9 was pretty good, and it got better just as soon as TNG ended and some staff went over. This staff wasn’t there for Voyager when it started, nor did they really move on to it when DS9 ended.

Despite what it might sound like, I don’t like Berman. Having read some articles, and major parts of the DS9 Companion, I know Berman can be a negative element. He was opposed to some of the good ideas that came out of the DS9 staff. They still fought for their ideas and got most of them through. In the end, the staff and the more involved producers got their way because they actually cared about their show. They never took their audience for granted and ensured that DS9 would continue strong for 7 years.

Yeah, you can blame Berman for some of Voyager and Enterprise, but you can’t put it entirely on his shoulders! What about the guy who handed in a crappy script full of technobabble? How does this guy not get any of the blame? Or, if you’re an actor, and you’ve got a starring role in a major tv show, how do you read that script and not ask the writers, “what the hell is my motivation? Who is this guy supposed to be?” If you care for your career as an actor or a writer, how do you give less than 100%?

Like I said before, people single out individuals when a sport team fails, but it’s a team sport! Everyone from the owner to the coach to the players to the trainer to the guy who takes care of the field has a part to play!

wookie:

I liked the concept of Enterprise, but not the execution. They had some interesting episodes in the 3rd and 4th seasons. Otherwise, it had more than its fair share of anomalies, technobabble, and senseless, gratuitous time travel. I felt like I was watching Quantum Leap, but without the purpose! Its only saving grace is that it wasn’t as bad as Voyager.

In fact, the #1 voted episode of Enterprise, “Twilight”, borrows heavily DS9’s “The Visitor”. They were reinventing events for the sake of nostalgia, and their results were a pale imitation. The show certainly lacked in originality.

The sets may have been pretty, but the writers were out to lunch.

I didn’t know more about any of the characters at the end of the series than I knew at the begining. Same goes for the Voyager characters, except maybe the Doctor. He seemed like an interesting idea. I think he’d have been GREAT on TOS if they had thought of it. They could have had him arguing with McCoy, and then Bones would say “he’s worse than than a godamned Vulcan!” and then shut him off.

no one:

The reason they turned Picard into an action hero is because they didn’t know what else to do. Poor writing once again.

I gotta say, Patrick Stewart is running out of franchises. X-Men 3 didn’t quite pull it off like the first two movies either…

Well, Digital D., if Berman had as much creative input as you say, and Gene had as little influence as you imply, then, I don’t know what went wrong.

It would still seem that Gene’s genesis of the show had a great deal to do with its success, even after he’d stopped producing it. And, that Berman, as the HNIC, after Gene’s passing, would have had the responsibility of hiring good writers. I totally agree with you about the importance of the writing. But, someone’s gotta see to it that the people doing the writing are living up to the great standards of the past.

Gene Roddenberry is credited as a writer on some of those early TOS episodes. And, he envisioned the series. Same deal with TNG. I’ll give Berman credit for not ruining TNG, while he was “entrenched” in it, as you say. But, that’s about all I can give him credit for, from my perspective. Maybe if I was as fond of DS-9 as you are, I’d feel differently.

All I know is that Trek, before Berman got the wheel, was much better than Trek after he got the wheel, as far as I’m concerned.

I would make exactly the same case for the TV versions of TNG and especially for Voyager (a temporal rift or anomaly per episode!) DS9 grew stronger towards the end (IMO).

I might be in the minority, but I really liked Enterprise. The show was not predictable, the stories and the crews struggled not having the “end all of technology” to solve every problem, the graphics were great, and, as a former carrier aviator, I even liked that Enterprise actually resembled a ship with real ladder wells etc! It was a real good show IMO, more like the original with imperfect actors and characters, while TNG, DS9, and Voyager (yuck) were trying to be to perfect.

Thanks for listening.

Tom

I would make exactly the same case for the TV versions of TNG and especially for Voyager (a temporal rift or anomoly per episode!) DS9 grew stronger towards the end (IMO).

I might be in the minority, but I really liked Enterprise. The show was not predictable, the stories and the crews struggled not having the “end all of technology” to solve every problem, the graphics were great, and, as a former carrier aviator, I even liked that Enterprise actually resembled a ship with real ladder wells etc! It was a real good show IMO, more like the original with imperfect actors and characters, while TNG, DS9, and Voyager (yuck) were trying to be to perfect.

Thanks for listening.

Tom