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Berman To Write Book On Trek Experience April 20, 2007

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Trek Franchise , trackback

In the latest issue of Star Trek Magazine, Trek’s longtime producer Rick Berman has a sort of ‘exit interview.’ The interview was conducted last December, shortly before he packed up to vacate his offices on the Paramount lot after 22 years with the studio. When asked if he is considering writing about about his experiences not only did he say he would, but he has already started…

I have started writing a book because I realized that in 1986, when Gene Roddenberry asked me to get involved  in work with him on this thing, the number of stories that I have accumulated is amazing.

Berman says that the book (which does not yet have a publisher) will be ‘warts and all,’ but says the focus will be on all the ‘wonderful and bizarre and funny things’ that happened during his 18 years with the franchise. Trek’s former honcho is also reaching out to former colleagues to help him recall certain events. Berman has witnessed more Trek history than just about anyone, and so a candid chronicle of that time could be a good read.

In addition to the book Berman says he he has some some other projects going, but provided little in detail:

There are two projects that are possibly in the works here at Paramount and two that are not connected to the television business, but time will tell. 

 

VOTE: Want it?

would you buy Rick Berman’s Book on his Trek experiences? 

…vote in the new poll (right column) 

 

For more pick up Star Trek Magazine (#132  in the UK#5 in the US) on newsstands this week.

 

Comments

1. Kev - April 20, 2007

First, and it has to be this? Oh well.

2. Anthony Pascale - April 20, 2007

before you guys get going….lets not turn this into another berman bashing fest, or at least get a bit more creative. Lets not forget Rick was there in the good days too. His last years were not his best, but he saw it all and worked very closely with Piller, Roddeberry, Behr, etc and if his book is truly \’warts and all\’ it is likely to be a good read.

3. frobogods - April 20, 2007

sounds good im looking forward to it

4. Michael Hall - April 20, 2007

Yes, the reflexive B-bashing does get old. I’ve always thought he was probably one of the hardest-working people in show business, whose main flaw was the kind of arrogance that led him to the conviction that he had talent as a screenwriter. But even if he had been much more competent at the writing trade than he was, it’s likely that burnout and fatigue with the Trek franchise would have reared its ugly head sooner or later, as it inevitably did with much more talented writers like Gene Coon and Michael Piller. I’ve also long suspected that many of the more egregious pandering the latter series did (e.g. Seven of Nine and T’Pol in their suffocating catsuits), which the B-bashers always held him liable for by default, was in fact imposed by the studio.

All in all, I’d be interested in checking this one out.

5. Aatrek - April 20, 2007

Yeah, I’d buy it. I’ve only ever heard his POV from interviews – something “in his own words” sounds very interesting.

6. CmdrR. - April 20, 2007

“warts and all” … shouldn’t that be ridges and all?

So many jokes, so little space.
OK, I LIKE TNG. I think for its time, it was good. I DON’T think all of it has the lasting power of TOS. But, about half the episodes are a welcome hour out of my day anytime.
Thanks Rick. Oh, and all those bad things people say about you…
…um… we’re deeply emotional creatures. We’re only human. I’m sure you’re with us all in wishing a tremendous new beginning for the franchise.

7. CmdrR. - April 20, 2007

yes, i’d buy the book. Shatner’s was surprisingly good and interesting.

8. CmdrR. - April 20, 2007

(and he’s been almost as maligned as Berman)

9. devolved - April 20, 2007

i’ve always thought a book like ‘disneywar’ (about the eisner regime at disney) should be written about star trek. a no holds barred look at the last 20 years of star trek would be really interesting…seems more like it should be ABOUT him, not written BY him, though.

10. Bob, The Evil Klingon Frontline Leader - April 20, 2007

I wish him all the best and I hope the book is a good read. I agree with #9, though. A no-holds-barred book by an outsider might be the best.

11. SPOCKBOY - April 20, 2007

Here is my problem with Berman.
It’s not so much that Enterprise was awful, I mean nobody’s perfect.
It was his attitude. I watched countless interviews with him and he always made a face like he had sucked a sour lemon whenever people would mention TOS. I think it bothered him so much because it was a stiff reminder that he was merely a passenger riding the Star Trek “gravy train” A small example of this attitude was his statement that he immensely disliked the “over the top” music from the original series, which finally explains the Star Trek MUZAK the later followed.
He invented nothing.
He took a HUGE multilayered universe that was already created by brilliant creative men and women and millions of loving fans and said…
“meh”
Came up with some fomulaic “Star Trek Lite” shows and when he finally had the chance to honour the brilliance of TOS by doing a “prequel show” he AGAIN said in a loud steady voice:……..”Meh”
and completely disregarded things that had already been established for 30 years.

“Lets have cloaking devices (although they haven’t been invented yet )because we cant think of anything new and innovative ourselves”

Sacrificing a clever and original idea, because you dont have the talent to find your way out of a dramatic corner you may have painted yourself into, is hardly worthy of anyone’s repect.
Berman’s tenure with Star Trek and consequent “passing of the torch” was obviously a RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME situation.
And now that he is THANKFULLY out of the picture, he is desperately trying to cash in on his already fading legacy.

I think Mr. Abrams is going to show him how it’s done.

Creative enough Anthony?

: )

12. Bobby - April 20, 2007

#11 i agree. and to berman’s book i say “meh….”

don’t care for the studio puppet.

13. MichaelJohn - April 20, 2007

It seems to me that Berman was involved with Star Trek for too long, and maybe that was part of the problem towards the end.

During his 22 year run he definately left his mark on the trek franchise, but I’m glad he won’t be involved with future Star Trek projects. I’m not trying to be critical of him, I just feel that the franchise needs fresh new ideas and a completely new direction.

LIke him or not, he was instrumental in the expanstion of Star Trek beyond it’s core audience of TOS, which resulted in many new and younger fans. I think most will agree that was a good thing.

I also give him credit for being part of the team that brought us Deep Space 9. This is my second favorite ST series after TOS, and argueably the best spin off series in the trek franchise.

Go niners!

Mike :o

14. Gary Seven - April 20, 2007

My personal opinion about Berman is that Star Trek, under his tutelage, lost its positive and inspiring vision of the future. I am not an expert on how much he was involved in this issue, and I would be interested if others knew about this. But my problem with Berman is several years after Roddenberry died, culminating in Deep Space Nine, too much of Star Trek just became just another Sci-Fi show, at least to me. I know DS9 is liked a lot but to me it was just not Star Trek. Too dark, too much about fighting and enemies and space battles, and too little on demonstrating a positive way forward for humanity. To me it could Babylon 5, or The Terminator for that matter; enjoyable at best but not particularly inspiring.
And I can’t imagine that happening under Roddenberry, to whom Star Trek and humanism were always fused.

15. Driver - April 20, 2007

What is Treble? A Tribble planet?

16. Michael Appleton - April 20, 2007

Even though TNG was good in it’s own way, Berman has always bugged me, as someone mentioned above, because his arrogant attitude pervades everything we think of him. You can be sure if Rick Berman claims to be writing a “warts and all” book, somehow you can count on the author himself to come off as being remarkably unblemished regarding his actions and decisions throughout the retelling of his Trek days. Someone else will ALWAYS be to blame, of course, for any negatives he chooses to address. What an ego!

17. paul austin - April 20, 2007

meh is right….lets have another book by Justman instead

18. stallion - April 20, 2007

I’m sure about 90% of the people that worked under Berman during his run on Star Trek will say nothing but positive things about him. I believe one reason Voyager wasn’t the show it should had been was because of UPN. They wanted the show to be like this and they gave in. I do believe the stuff that people complained about Voyager Berman made it up with Enterprise. The concept and characters of Enterprise was great but B&B didn’t do their homework. He made a good call on putting Manny Cotto in charge but it was to late.

19. stallion - April 20, 2007

It would be interesting to hear Berman side of the story. If you listen to the B basher you would think all Berman did all day was try to figure out how he can ruin Star Trek or how he can cause it’s downfall. I don’t think he is hte evil bastard other people make him out to be.

20. Stanklin T. McFibberich - April 20, 2007

I am only familiar with Mr. Berman through this forum and he has generally not been cast in a good light here. I guess the reason I’m not interested in his book, though, is because I am not interested in the shows he produced for the most part. I lost interest in the Next Generation after about the 3rd year and never got past even a couple episodes of the later series.
I for some reason recently NetFlixed the “Mirror Darkly” disc of “Enterprise” and was surprisingly not all that repulsed by it, except for the lame Tholian web effects and the even worse Tholian.
Voyager was just unwatchable and Deep Space Nine was a borefest whenever I tried to watch it, except for the flashback gimmick episode with the tribbles.
At least he never tried to cast a fake Kirk.

21. MiguelSan - April 20, 2007

The problem I had with Berman was the direction of Trek after TNG.

DS9 had awesome writing, and could stand alone as a sci fi series. However, it didnt fit with Gene’s ideals for the trek universe.

Voyager had interesting concepts, but fell short as the ship never lost a naclle or had even a scratch, considering the amount of fire it took over seven years. Don’t get me started on the borg.

And dont get me started on Enterprise.

But through all of that, he insulted the fans more times than we can probably count.

Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis creators love their fans and listen to them, no matter how juvenile a small percentage of them can be at times.

B5 kept it’s storyline straight. Fans appreciated that.

Point being, Berman and Braga, even to this day, disrespect the fans when asked about their mistakes. That’s the beef with berman, imo.

So, would I like to see a book? Sure. But i’d rather there be a focus on TNG, but i’d rather have Jeri Taylor write it. Or Majel Barrett. It might be interesting.

22. Campe - April 20, 2007

Long time reader, first time poster here…

There were a lot of things that Berman did that I didn’t agree with and there are a lot of things that he did that I enjoyed with Berman’s name on it. I think that he is unfairly maligned rather frequently. Sure, he made some mistakes: Nemesis and Voyager plus episodes of TNG and ENT, particularly “These Are the Voyages” come to mind. But, think of what he gave us: first, he kept Trek alive. Second, TNG (while the early years are rather dated) would not have truly survived had it not been for him and Michael Piller. While he certainly wasn’t a part of what made it great, he and Piller also created DS9 which portrayed Roddenberry’s vision in a different light. Say what you will about the films and Enterprise, but for the most part I found those adventures entertaining.

His stories have got to be very interesting and I for one look forward to seeing what he has to say. Of course there will be a certain level of trying to paint himself in a good light when perhaps there shouldn’t be, but maybe we’ll see him in a different light after this book.

23. Josh T. ( The Shatnastic duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire' - April 20, 2007

My God it takes willpower not to launch a tirade the likes of which God would admire,

however, in deference and respect to Anthonys request, and just to show some of the Next Gen, Voyager, DS9, and , and, I can barely stand to type it, Enterprise fans, I can be reasonable, I’ll …

Oh the hell with it! Berman you take your book deal and stick it up your swollen turboshaft fella!

Would anyone expect anyone less of me here? :P

24. Josh T. ( The Shatnastic duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire' - April 20, 2007

Expect *anything* less too, errata resolved.

25. Penhall - April 20, 2007

I’m not the biggest Berman fan, but come on, a book about his Trek experiences? It’d definitely be worth a read.

26. Sithmenace - April 20, 2007

Once again this arrogant SOB is sucking a paycheck from someone else’s creation. A creation that he never liked, but why should that stop him from getting paid?

If he’s so talented why doesn’t he move on to something else instead of once again sucking Trek dry? It’s because he’s not talented, he’s a savvy businessman that saw an opening then exploited it, ruining the product in the process. He changed Trek to what he wanted instead of creating his own brand so that he could sell his uninspired crap under a known name. He’s an opportunist, he lucked into the opportunity of a lifetime and is still profiting from it.

The reason there’s so much Berman bashing is because it’s warranted. If he was so great, there would be very little venom.

27. OM - April 21, 2007

…anyone care to guess how many fingers on one hand will be required to count all the “warts” he attributes to himself? Based on his arrogance with regards to the Enterprise theme music debacle, I bet he dedicates an entire chapter to explaining a) why he picked the song, b) why he wanted to use the original, lamer, Rod Stewart version, but Rod refused to allow it, c) and blames fans for causing the show to be cancelled over the use of the song while d) expousing his superiority in the matter simply because he was the producer of the show and fans haven’t a clue what’s good or bad.

Again, someone needs to do an in-depth analysis on why Enterprise and the entire Trek franchise was allowed to go into the toilet under Berman’s tyranny…

28. operations - April 21, 2007

How obvious can it be, this is nothing more than what he’s been doing all along, and that is MILKING THE COW.

Berman, STFU already.

29. ZoomZoom - April 21, 2007

Who is Rick Berman? :-p

30. Josh T. ( The Shatnastic duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire' - April 21, 2007

Rick Berman and Brannon Braga have consistently thumbed their nose to the core of Trek, assigned blame to the fans for the decline in interest and viewing, and smeared the inspiration for EVERY followup every chance they had, yet people can still defend their decisions and creative choices? It boggles the mind.

31. James T Kirk - April 21, 2007

I… Am… Captain Kirrrrk!!!!!!!

32. Stanklin T. McFibberich - April 21, 2007

Looking for positives here.

At least he never had an idea like casting another actor as James Kirk.

33. Josh T. ( The Shatnastic duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire' - April 21, 2007

If it ISN’T titled “The dummies guide to burying a cherished franchise” then well, it’s false advertising. ;)

34. Josh T. ( The Shatnastic duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire' - April 21, 2007

Stanky, Berminator wanted the Shatness to play “Chef” on Enterprise.
The meeting did not go over well.

Nuff’ said I daresay.

35. Josh T. ( The Shatnastic duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire' - April 21, 2007

Addendum:

This “Tiberius Chase” echoing visionary idea of Berman’s, in lieu of a wonderfully elaborate Reeves-Stevens/Shatner hatched idea to mark the return of the Mirror universe Tiberius Kirk to the Trek universe.

But no, “well , we thought you could be Chef” murmurs Berman as drool runs down his chin.

The Shat should have bitchslapped the mans eyes STRAIGHT right on the spot.

36. Tony - April 21, 2007

34:

Berman wanted the Shat to be Chef? WTF? Where did this come from?

37. Still Kirok - April 21, 2007

Here’s a challenge. With all the combined intelligence on this board, we could come up with some creative titles for this baby. I started a similar line of thinking at Trekweb:

1. How to Cook the Golden Goose!
2. Failure!
3. I Fell Out of a Boat and Didn’t Hit Water.

38. James Heaney - April 21, 2007

I’ll buy it. It’ll either be just a great yarn or a deep insight into the mind of one of the most (irrational, IMO) hated men in Star Trek.

#36: There was major negotiation last year, prior to “In A Mirror, Darkly,” to get the Shat back on the show as Tiberius Kirk. It didn’t pan out, and they went with the completely different IAMD script, instead. However, I’ll note that the plan seemed at the time to be coming from Manny Coto, not Berman/Braga.

39. SPOCKBOY - April 21, 2007

#35,
God that was funny…

: )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v617/spockboy/trekjoke.jpg

Sorry Anthony, but I simply could not resist.

40. Redshirt - April 21, 2007

IIIRC One of the ideas was Shatner to appear as Chef on ENT. Something happens to Kirk before his death in Generations that effects the timeline Since Chef has this remarkable resemblance to Kirk he replaces Kirk in the timeline

I believe the other was another time travel story what if Kirk did not stop McCoy in “City on the Edge of Forever” . Requiring also Jackie Collins to make a appearence, It seemed both sides were interested but Paramount didn’t want to flip the bill. Shatner’s asking price was just too high for a show that was struggling in the ratings.

Both stories sound far fetched. but I believe one of them was going to be written by Garfield Reeves Stevens.
I rather read about Berman’s involvement in TNG. He was pretty much assigned by Paramount to watch over Roddenberry. Roddenberry’s relationship with the studio was rather strained since STTMP. From what I gathered not a lot of TOS people that worked on TNG were ecstatic on him. They ultimately all quit after Season One because Roddenberry was told from his lawyers and the studio that they were not the people he should listen and trust.

I really think he was a good money man but I found his ideas lacking . His execution was utterly off . Thier were times He could surprise me but thats it . He gave a lot of people great starts. Or we wouldn’t be enjoying so many cool shows today. I think at some point he was looking to replace and to groom somebody to head the “franchise” . I don’t think he could have found anybody. One of the reasons they ultimately left Trek and Paramount all together was the studio and possibly Berman. From what i understand he wasn’t a easy guy to get along with, Most of the people have moved on to another production company and have success elsewhere.
His job was difficult because he had to please the fans and the studio alike. I’m not ecstatic on the man myself

41. Reptileboy - April 21, 2007

This is fantastic news, and I sure hope that some publisher out there realises the significance of this book. While there has been numerous books written by TOS staffers and producers, we have had virtually nothing written by the modern franchise staff.

I have always hoped that Rick would write about his work on Star Trek, as he has probably more to say than anybody who has ever worked on Star Trek. I kinda got tired of all those people who milked the fascination with TOS by writing tell all books that were really just a chance for them to get out grievances and stroke their ego.

From what is being said, it appears Rick wants to avoid the bashing and petty name calling that seemed to be a hallmark of most behind the scenes books.

You make not like Rick for whatever reasons, but he has virtually said nothing bad against anyone. And I’m glad he is not using a book to do this.

I’m excited about this, because there is so much I want to know about the modern day franchise that only Rick can really elaborate on.

42. Ranganath Bobba - April 21, 2007

I think Berman did a fantastic job, 20 years of constantly working on one series would make anyone tired but not Berman he always kept the importance of Star Trek at the forefront of his mind. I do not think he is arrogant, I can not understand people who act like they know him when they have never physically met him, when you see him on the screen he is answering a set of questions that have been predetermined and that is the way he answers them, there is a difference between that and arrogance. People are always first to criticise and secondly hindsight is a great thing, but people only come out after the event and they think its some kind of cool thing to join in this inane ‘bashing’ ceremony. Star Trek (All Series) is my favorite programme of all time ( I loved Enterprise), it has helped me through a life of hardship. Along with Gene Rodenberry I think Rick Berman stands as a true monument to the greatness that is Star Trek. We celebrated 40 years because of both of these men, I think Rodenberry knew that Berman would keep Star Trek alive and he trusted him, I can think of no higher commendation. I salute you sir.

43. Kirk's Crotch - April 21, 2007

I still remember going to a Trek convention back in 1991 and having a brief conversation with Richard Arnold shortly after Roddenberry’s death. Arnold and several other longtime Roddenberry aides had just been fired by Berman and replaced with Berman loyalists. When I asked him why, he smiled and said, “Well, you know what happens whenever a king loses the throne.” It wasn’t that these people weren’t good at their jobs, talented, or knowledgeable about Trek — it was that they weren’t Berman’s guys. I kept that in mind as I watched Berman’s decisions over the years. His greatest achievement was to create a loyal band of supporters around him that made it tough for the studio to replace him. It took until the flops of ENTERPRISE and NEMESIS for the studio to bite the bullet, clean house and start over.

44. Paul - April 21, 2007

What’s all this “DS9 does not fit to GR’s vision of Trek”? I think it fits original Star Trek more than well. Do you think there are no wars in Star Trek? We didn’t see any, but they are there and somebody has to fight them. Kirk did. Sisko did, too.

Look at Sisko – there was NEVER more kirkish captain in modern Trek, especially in later series. They’re both soldiers, not some warp-propelled new age coffee-bar pseudohumanists like Picard and his gang.

I agree that DS9 is un-TNG series… but not un-Trek series, not at all.

45. Lord Garth Formerly of Izor - April 21, 2007

Who cares

46. Cygnus-X2112 - April 21, 2007

I have a bad feeling about Rick Berman. My impression of him is that he’s a businessman who took the inspiration and wonder out of Trek, and replaced them with formulae. He strikes me as an anti-artist: a man on the wrong side of the Art/Commerce schism.

(I’m sorry, Anthony, but, try as I might, I find myself unable to abstain from Berman-bashing here.)

And, I must concur with others’ impression of Berman’s “attitude” as well. So, I’m not buying his book, unless I hear such great things about it that I’m otherwise compelled.

Perhaps, if someone could reveal something good about Rick Berman – something that I’d actually appreciate him for – it would ameliorate my feelings about him. But, no one has yet…for some reason.

P.S. – “Star Trek Movie Memories,” by William Shatner. This was a fun book.

47. Michael Appleton - April 21, 2007

#41 “not some warp-propelled new age coffee-bar pseudohumanists like Picard and his gang”
I like that phrase. Is there any chance we could have it be a lyric in a new rap song? Boom, ba, boom…”yo,yo,yo…not some warp-propelled…mo’ fo’..

48. Stanklin T. McFibberich - April 21, 2007

re: 34. Josh T. ( The Shatnastic duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire’ – April 21, 2007

“Stanky, Berminator wanted the Shatness to play “Chef” on Enterprise.
The meeting did not go over well.”

I was not aware of that…and glad I was not.

49. Crusade2267 - April 21, 2007

I think I’d want to read it, Because even though Berman did bring us Enterprise and Nemesis, he also brought us much of TNG and First Contact. And about half of DS9 and Voyager was awesome, and half wasn’t. He’s the most controvercial figure in Trek, he’s finally gotten the message that most of us blame him for wrecking the franchise, and I’d like to see how he’s dealing with that. Star Trek’s Off-screen tragic hero, so to speak.

50. Cafe 5 - April 21, 2007

Berman did fine with Star Trek as long as he was somewhat
reined in and held in check. At some point he broke free and
ran amuck. He turned the last movie and series into the New
Coke of the franchise. Altered the formula and proceeded to
run the entire structure into the ground. He had massive
amounts feedback and failed to heed any of the advice.
Then after “his” vision failed he blamed the fans for losing
interest. Rick Berman wasted potential beyond imagination.
The fans and everyone involved in the Trek franchise were
made to suffer because of his excessive pride and
arrogance. The perfect example of a little tin god. When he
admits to himself and the fans his failures then I might read
his book.

51. Cafe 5 - April 21, 2007

Berman did fine with Star Trek as long as he was somewhat
reined in and held in check. At some point he broke free and
ran amuck. He turned the last movie and series into the New
Coke of the franchise. Altered the formula and proceeded to
run the entire structure into the ground. He had massive
amounts of feedback and failed to heed any of the advice.
Then after “his” vision failed he blamed the fans for losing
interest. Rick Berman wasted potential beyond imagination.
The fans and everyone involved in the Trek franchise were
made to suffer because of his excessive pride and
arrogance. The perfect example of a little tin god. When he
admits to himself and the fans his failures then I might read
his book.

52. John Cocktoasten - April 21, 2007

Fans are quite ungrateful, if we look at things objectively. It’s easy to fall into the traps and bitch about some things we didn’t like. But we’re spoiled for choice. We’ve had TOS, then the Movies, Spin-offs and more movies. Now another movie . And still they bitch…

53. John Pemble - April 21, 2007

There are only two words that can describe why there is a Star Trek anything for the past two decades and they are Rick Berman. If it weren’t for Rick only two words would be available to describe the state of Star Trek. Those two words are Jack and Shit.

54. Cafe 5 - April 21, 2007

No one is denying that Rick Berman did good for Star Trek. But at some
point he turned into a “pod” person. In the last few yers he did more harm
than good.

55. Ranganath Bobba - April 21, 2007

Nemesis was an idea that was generated by Spiner, Logan and Patrick Stewart which is why Mr Stewart was so annoyed when it flopped, I asked him when I met him early this year in London. Berman might have been involved in the production but if you think it sucked I can assure it wasn’t because of the production. I agree with John Pemble Star Trek would have been over if Berman and the crew had not continued and then there would not have been a First Contact or the new 2008 Trek movie. I mean even morons realise that he was a major driving force.

56. mrregular - April 21, 2007

#41:
Preach it, brother!
Captain Sisko is a character that I will never forget, played brilliantly by Avery Brooks.
DS9 was perhaps the most fully realized Star Trek spinoff. Why do I say this? Look at the actors. The scripts. The writing. The special effects. The arc of the whole show after the Dominion threat was established-there was a story being told by some incredibly talented people.

As to the forthcoming Berman book, I would suggest to everyone that if you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Vote with your wallet and the rest will take care of itself automatically.
Case in point, Star Trek: Nemesis. Need I say more?

57. Bill K - April 21, 2007

Why not, he’s not going to make any more money with new Trek movies or TV shows so let’s re-sell the old ones.

58. Hulk - April 21, 2007

WHOOO! THAT’S WAY TO GO, RICK MY MAN!

I wish you to return on the helm of franchise soon, and make it right.

59. John Cocktoasten - April 21, 2007

#56

“DS9 was perhaps the most fully realized Star Trek spinoff. Why do I say this? Look at the actors. The scripts. The writing. The special effects. The arc of the whole show after the Dominion threat was established-there was a story being told by some incredibly talented people. ”

But it wasn’t Star Trek. If you know what I mean.

60. MichaelJohn - April 21, 2007

#56 Good post and I agree! Go niners!

Mike :o

61. jonboc - April 21, 2007

For me, Berman writing a book is every bit the non-event that most of his “alleged” Star Trek turned out to be.

..having said that, it will sell. He may not understand Star Trek, but the man understands money.

62. ObiWanCon - April 21, 2007

I know Berman had a lot to do with TNG but it was created by Gene Roddenberry and really from season 3 onwards was more the Michael Piller show then Berman, Voyager is 100% Berman that’s why it’s SH!T.

I don’t hate Berman or Braga but I dislike a lot of what they did later on in the Star Trek franchise.

63. Cafe 5 - April 21, 2007

You can’t have a kinda Star Trek. It has to be what it is. Not someones sorta
trek. Berman and Braga wanted something different so different in fact they
removed the name Star Trek from the title. When you continue to do what
your doing wrong it becomes contagious. It becomes error upon error. Is
it human to screw up once in awhile, yes very much so. But to continue to
be wrong in spite of the facts just because you can’t admit you’re wrong is
utter madness. Star Trek was taken down paths it should never have taken.
Star Trek:Enterprise could have been a grand adventure instead it was an
exercise in futility. Potential is something that should not be wasted. Berman
and Braga squandered what could have been and turned it into what will
never be. The fans will not pat him on the back for the harm done to the
sustainabilty of the franchise. At one time Berman may have been an asset
to the Trek universe but towards the end of his tenure anybody and I do mean
anybody with one eye and half an asshole could have done better than he did.

64. Jeff J - April 21, 2007

There isn’t a snowballs’ chance in hell of me buying his book.

65. John Cocktoasten - April 21, 2007

# 63 “Berman and Braga wanted something different so different in fact they removed the name Star Trek from the title.”

I didn’t get that impression at all. I presumed it was so as not to put off a potential wider audience that weren’t Trek fans. Makes sense right?

66. James T Kirk - April 21, 2007

Rick Berman’s book title should be–

My So Called Star Trek: The Wrath of Berman.

I can see the opening lines now…..

“I’ve done far worse than kill you. I’ve hurt you, and I wish to go on hurting you. I shall leave you as you left me, marooned for all eternity in the center of a dead franchise, buried alive. Buried alive.”

To Mister Berman I have this to say: I’m laughing at the superior intellect.

67. Nathan - April 21, 2007

Whew! It’s amazing how many hate-filled diatribes you can get just by mentioning Berman’s name…….. I mean, sure, I’m not a big fan of Voyager and Enterprise, but I don’t feel the need to personally attack every single person involved with them whenever they’re mentioned. Even if you’re one of the TOS purists, it doesn’t mean you have to personally point out where exactly every single one of them went wrong, and spout blistering diatribes about how they ‘ruined your childhood’ or any of that stuff. If you don’t like ‘em, don’t watch ‘em, and please don’t feel the need to remind us that you do, in fact, dislike them every single time they’re mentioned.

Okay, rant over. Anyway, to Berman, Piller, Behr, Moore, Braga, Roddenbery and every other person involved in bringing Star Trek to life, thank you and God bless!

68. Lord Garth Formerly of Izor - April 21, 2007

Still don’t care

69. Josh T. ( The Shatnastic duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire' - April 21, 2007

Maybe it will be a pop-up book.

70. Josh T. ( The Shatnastic duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire' - April 21, 2007

I can’t speak for anyone else but myself of course, but as to the earlier question about the tirades and why Berman ellicits such hostile responses, I’ll give you my answer and why I despise the man:

Put simply, I love Star Trek, and loathe what became of Star Trek under the mans creative watch.

Some people are quick to give credit to Rick Berman for whatever percieved success they believe the various series had, when in reality, the man was a corporate hatchetman whose sole responsibility as executive producer was ensuring episodes, and films, were brought in ON budget.
If you want to give credit to TNG , start by giving it to Gene Roddenberry, then secondarily the Gene Coon of TNG- Michael Piller, or Jeri Taylor, who were responsible for the day to day creative decisions of the series. Not Rick Berman- the sniveling bean counter, whose sole contribution to the Trek mythos was Professor Berlinghoff Rasmutin. Yawn.

Rick Berman despised living in Gene Roddenberrys shadow, and contrary to taking the responsibility he was maneuvered into, not entrusted with, but rather maneuvered into seriously, he simply HAD to put his own personal spin on everything to make it his own.

Ask Ron Moore how he feels about Rick Berman and Brannon Braga.

People , nor myself, do not typically hate and despise arbitrarily for no legitimate reason. There is a definitive reason this man is so villified, and that reason is, this bastard took something once respected, and made it a laughing stock. Something to dread, not something to look forward to.
If Rick Berman had truly loved and respected Star Trek, rather than churning out series after series like a fricking factory, his sense of duty and obligation first and foremost to TREK, not himself and his mortgage, would have prevented him from continuously making these damn series and stretching the concept too thin. He has said himself he didn’t want to rush in with another series after Voyager, but like the corporate whore he is, rather than stand down and maintain his integrity, Paramount threw that check at him and he grunted out Enterprise from his borrows bag of tricks.

Yes, I revile the man, because don’t kid yourselves, the man has no joy for you, I assure you.

71. xizro345 - April 21, 2007

Fact is, you’re basing a lot of this pointless hatred (hating the work can be understandable, the man, no) with one-sided arguments. I for one am interested in this book, because there is need for his point of view, which is necessary to understand what was going on back then. He couldn’t reply to some stuff people said because of his position, so I’d rather see his take on certain events.
He was a producer, and like others pointed out, he did bad and good work over the years. Flaming him like that is, IMO, childish.

72. Cygnus-X1 - April 21, 2007

…and, to those who feel indebted to Berman, I would ask: what did Berman bring to Trek that was unique?

What, was there a shortage of Line Producers to take over the franchise, or something? Was a there a shortage of creatively bereft accountants to recycle the brainchildren of Roddenberry, Coon and the inspired writers of TOS and TNG?

73. xizro345 - April 21, 2007

I personally think that without a solid producer TNG wouldn’t have lasted long.

74. samwiseb - April 22, 2007

Interseting how THAT picture of Berman always gets used on this site whenever there’s an article focussing on him. It’s a rather unflattering picture. I wonder if it’s deliberate.

75. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 22, 2007

Thats the expression Berman wore on his smug mug when he said “Shat, you can be Chef!” Chef Shat!

It’s a pity the drool isn’t clearly evident in the photo.

Rick Berman CONTINUES to rub his ass with the faces of the fans, and still people come back for more to lap it up.

True story for all you peeps, I shit you not:

Way back when I was a wee lad, I wrote Nicholas Myer a fan letter, complimenting him on his work and contribution to the Trek mythos, and the man HAND wrote me a letter, I shit you not, from Europe, he said the letter I sent him made his day.
Within the body of the letter, I of course offered my immature, uninspired hopes and ideas for another film he could produce, which he RIGHTFULLY dismissed and said why don’t you send your thoughts and ideas to Rick Berman.

Alright, heres the clincher.

I swear to God on a stack of Bibles, I sent Berman a similar type letter, and included a drawing of Captain Kirk, Captain Picard, the USS Enterprise, and the words “Star Trek-Generations.” This would have been circa 1991 after Vi came out I’m guessing.

You can make of that what you will, chastise me, criticize me, attack my character, it doesn’t matter, but me and Rick Berman know the truth.

Of course, I have NO way on God’s green Earth to back up that claim, and I won’t even try to. I know the truth, I just thought I’d share a little something.

76. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 22, 2007

Somewhere, he has that *** Damn drawing in a filing cabinet.

77. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 22, 2007

Oh, and just below “Star Trek- Generations” it said “yesterday, joins today, to save tommorow”

78. John Cocktoasten - April 22, 2007

#75

So we can blame you then.

79. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 22, 2007

I believe wholeheartedly in my mind and heart you can blame me for the title, and perhaps the basic concept.

80. James T Kirk - April 22, 2007

Rick Berman dismissed the TNG episode, “Darmok.” He hated it, in fact. I remember reading this somewhere, and if it was not for Michael Pillar seeing the script it would never have been made. That is one reason why Berman’s sensibilites are suspect.

79 – Please. I just spoke with Nicholas Meyer. He has no Idea what you are talking about. He saves all his fan letters.

81. xizro345 - April 22, 2007

I know it’s harsh to say, but I’m really disgusted by some comments here, which can be (rightly) considered trolling and unnecessary flaming. I really hope some action is taken, because this is a place to discuss, more than everything else.

82. John Cocktoasten - April 22, 2007

#80

Sorry I found Darmok really boring as well.

83. Stanklin T. McFibberich - April 22, 2007

Yes…I have vague memories of being repulsed by Darmok.

84. Admiraldeem - April 22, 2007

IMO, DS9 was NOT Star Trek and it stunk. VOY stunk. ENT really stunk. A man is to be judged by his works and it is obvious to me at least that Berman has been found guilty of taking Star Trek where no one has gone before–into the rubbish heap.

Anthony….I think the only way you can avoid Berman bashing is to not run any stories on him.

85. mrregular - April 22, 2007

#59:

“But it wasn’t Star Trek. If you know what I mean.”

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. It was more far,far more Star Trek than the last two movies were!!
Again, it comes down to the acting, the writing, the scripts, the arc of the show..so incredibly rich and compelling after the dominon threat became established.
And no, #84, DS9 did NOT stink.. Are you telling me that “And The Children Shall Lead” is perferable over DS9’s best episodes like “Sacrifice of Angels”?

86. Michael Hall - April 22, 2007

“Look at Sisko – there was NEVER more kirkish captain in modern Trek, especially in later series. They’re both soldiers, not some warp-propelled new age coffee-bar pseudohumanists like Picard and his gang.”

Oh, bullcrap. The only episode where Kirk refers to himself as a “soldier” is in “Errand of Mercy,” and when it becomes clear to him in Gene Coon’s antiwar script that the Organians are not about to allow a senseless conflict with millions of possible casualties, he wisely backs off and is even sensible enough after the fact to be embarrassed by his own intransigence. Kirk may have been a warrior on occasion, but always a reluctant one, who employed violence only defensively and as a last resort. (In “Elaan of Troyius” he even makes the point that he’s more than willing to run away from a fight if it will successfully allow him to complete his mission.) First and foremost, James Kirk was an explorer, not a soldier, same as PIcard.

87. Admiraldeem - April 22, 2007

I stand by my assessments. And the very best of DS9 is still a steaming pile next to the worst of TOS or TNG. IMO, anyway.

88. Cygnus-X1 - April 22, 2007

Josh T. Kirk,

Those are great stories, and I believe you, because I, too, sent Berman a similar letter, with a similar drawing and the same title suggestion, and so did my wife. Her name’s “Brian” as well.

(Just a little joke. I sincerely do believe you.)

But, “Darmok” was, perhaps, THE most annoying TNG episode made, as far as I’m concerned:

“DARMOK – AT – TENAGRA!!!” – Oh, shut up, for Chrissakes!!! GAAAAH!!!

89. Alternative Factor anti-Chris - April 22, 2007

While most everything has already been said, I agree that Berman probably stuck around for far too long.

But really, was it really a bad thing that he “tinkered” with Roddenberry’s “vision” or “ideals”? Putting aside the original series, what did Roddenberry’s “vision” give us? Season one and two of TNG, the two weakest TNG seasons and rivals to the later Berman Voyager seasons as to which is worse. Eugene Wesley Roddenberry gave us one of the most hated Star Trek characters ever devised – Wesley Crusher – a representation of Roddenberry as a child. Not to mention the ultimate “grasping for relevancy” comment – the V’Ger/Borg “connection”. It is still propagated even to this day, regardless of whether or not it would be one of the worst ideas Trek has ever come up with.

As more of his “day to day” power slipped away from him, I felt the series got a lot better (the “golden age” of the series is the latter half of season 3 to the end of season 6).

90. yo - April 23, 2007

#86:
> The only episode where Kirk refers to himself as a “soldier”
> is in “Errand of Mercy”

True.

You also remember McCoy telling Kirk:
“Maybe you’re a soldier so often that you forget
you’re also trained to be a diplomat.” (“Metamorphosis”)

(Note that Kirk does not challenge Bones’ assessment of him.
Kirk does not say: “A soldier? Moi?? Surely you jest, Bones.”) ;-,

> Kirk may have been a warrior on occasion,
> but always a reluctant one …

I get your point and I’m not necessarily disagreeing,
but those who would disagree might quote from “Arena”:

Kirk: “If the aliens go unpunished, they’ll be back ….”
Spock: “I merely suggested that a regard for sentient –”
Kirk: “There’s no time for that. It’s a matter of policy.
Out here, we’re the only policemen around.
And a crime has been committed. Do I make myself clear?”

Such a reluctant warrior.

> James Kirk was an explorer, not a soldier, same as Picard.

Same as Picard. OK

Kirk: “Uhura, signal the following in all languages and on
all frequencies: ‘We surrender.’ State that we are not
asking for any terms or conditions.” …
“Earl gray, hot.”

Picard: “If the aliens go unpunished, they’ll be back.”
Data: “I merely suggested that a regard for sentient –”
Picard: “There’s no time for that. Out here, we’re the
only policemen around. Do I make myself clear?”
Data: “Very clear, Captain.”
Picard: “I’m delighted, Mr. Data.”

91. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

Kirk was both a warrior and a diplomat, what he clearly wasn’t, was a bureacrat or pencil pushing, seat shining administrator.

Kirk graduated from the talk softly but carry a big stick school of diplomacy.

92. mrregular - April 23, 2007

#87:
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree..from my point of view, though, DS9’s finest episodes will be at least to me the some of the best moments in all of Trek.
This is not to say that DS9 did not have its clunkers, as did all of the series and the movies.

93. xai - April 23, 2007

…. joining the thread late…. apparently the request to “not bash” wasn’t listened to.

94. Lord Garth Formerly of Izor - April 23, 2007

Sigh……………………………….

95. Cafe 5 - April 23, 2007

I don’t quite think this is bashing more of a critique. I work with a person
who has has a drug and alcohol problem for 20 years. He honestly
believed he pulled his weight on the job while he was under the
influence. Maybe Mr. Berman thinks the same way.

96. Tim - April 23, 2007

93. xai…not is wasn’t. It appears that it does not matter one iota that many of people bashing him watched DS9 Voy and Ent, they don’t take into account that he did keep a franchise alive for over 15 years, nor do they take into account that he was answerable to paramount who are well known for fidling and tinkering with shows and thus killing them. And the fact that he snubs the fans? To be honest after reading the self righteous claptrap in here I do not blame him, I would ignore most of you as well, you seem to think that only you can write trek, only you can save trek, Josh T. (The Phantom Shat’s duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire, you are a self righteous prat, why don’t you start a show and keep it fresh and interesting for 18 odd years, and then you turn down an opportunity to create a spin off, get a life for pitty sake, Star Trek is a show. I don’t get this “purist” rubish either, from what I have seen, Rodenberry was also good at ignoring “the time line” of trek, one week phasers would come from one part of the ship the next they would look like torpedos or come from a completely different part (this is during the sacred TOS run!) To all Berman haters remember he gave you 18 years of trek, also Enterprise was a brilliant concept and was more than worthy of Star Treks name, you have to take each serries for what it is an entirely new show!

97. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

Hey Tim simply because you can rationalize mediocrity, openly embrace inferior and substandard work, and clearly delude yourself into thinking Berman Trek cut the mustard and had the same cultural, or hell even low brow impact as the Original Trek , hardly makes me self-righteous, if anything, it makes you abundantly disillusioned.
Alright, you like some of this tripe shit, that’s fine.
It has nothing to do with “purist” mentality. It has everything to do with quality, and Berman era Trek was sadly lacking in that particular arena.

I seriously hope you aren’t using the fact Berman had nude photographs of Paramount shareholders wives to blackmail them to keep his job 18 years as some sort of guage for the quality of his work.
Berman was and is a corporate whore that kept his job because he was friends with Paramounts brass. When regime change occured, Bermans ass was GONE. Convient isn’t it?

Berman didn’t give ME 18 years of Trek, Berman alienated me, and many THOUSANDS of other fans to the point his shows and films BOMBED magnificently.

If you want to marginalize me as self-righteous, given my druthers, I’ll gladly take that label ANY DAY over being someone content with mediocrity that makes excuses for spoon fed cookie cutter product dished out assembly line style to your eagerly awaiting lap it up sensibilities.

Berman poo poo’s on you Tim. Please, come back for more.

98. John Cocktoasten - April 23, 2007

#97

“and clearly delude yourself into thinking Berman Trek cut the mustard and had the same cultural, or hell even low brow impact as the Original Trek , hardly makes me self-righteous, if anything, it makes you abundantly disillusioned.”

You seem to forget that “original trek” had no cultural impact at all until the 70s. It was a total flop when it originally aired. And in all honesty, Bermans spin offs (as much I dislike them) probably have more fans than TOS.

99. Tim - April 23, 2007

“I seriously hope you aren’t using the fact Berman had nude photographs of Paramount shareholders wives to blackmail them to keep his job 18 years as some sort of guage for the quality of his work.” give me a break Josh, where did you get that from? Got any evidence to back it up? You do know defimation is a crime, and you can be sued? Thousands of fans alientated as well, ok, the other millions of fans must have been happy then?

And I am actualy very hard to please, but I take t.v for what it is, entertainment nothing more. I enjoy shows but do not live my life by them, nor do I take offence if some one changes “cannon.”

“to the point his shows and films BOMBED magnificently” actualy only Nemesis bombed, the others both passed the one hundred million mark, surpassing most of the original movies ecept for ST:IV. Ent had the highest viewed opening for any serries (yes this show eventualy died). So not all aspects of his stewardship were bad, and I freely admit that Nemesis was nothing short of a joke.

I must admit though Bermin never did put dancing hippies in, what a shame that was.

100. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

#98

Well if we are going to have a spin-off war let’s do it then, only, let’s be intellectually genuine rather than disingenuous.

Star Trek as originally aired was an instant success, the fault was with ratings, which werent measured in demographics during the original run. Demographics the year Trek was cancelled, revealed Star Trek was reaching the all-important male 18 to 35 demographic. By then all standing sets had been demolished, yet IMMEDIATELY Roddenberry was given a deal to continue Star Trek. The initial notion was a spin-off focusing solely on Spock and Vulcans.
I find it telling Star Trek launched not one, but two campaigns to prolongue the shows run, yet Enterprise could not mount one.
The fans and viewers were there. The miscommunication was between execs and local affiliate program directors and producers.

#99

Sue me Baby,

Millions of other Enterprise fans Tim? The same 17 you mean that lobbied to continue the series but didn’t make a big enough stink? The same millions of fans that showed up to Nemesis, Insurrection, First Contact and Generations?

I’m glad you bring up Box office returns, that gives me the oppurtunity to educate you a bit.

You see, inflation, is a relevant factor here Tim. The next time you look up Box office gross, both foreign and domestic, rather than looking at yearly totals, try looking up tickets sold. Thats where truth begins manifesting itself.

A 100 million dollar earning film today, is small peanuts compared to a 100 million dollar earning film 20 years ago.
Why do you think the industry continues raising ticket prices?
They want that initial explosive opening, because audiences won’t continue going to see a film for months the way they used to because of the advent of home entertainment systems that rival theaters.

Let’s do a little comparitive analysis shall we Tim?

Let’s say Star Trek- The Motion Picture earned a domestic gross of say 110 million hypothetically, with tickets in ’79 say 1.25 for adults, which is probably high.
Contrast that, with we’ll use First Contact since alot of TNG fans cite that film as the series greatest Box Office success.
We’ll say hypothetically 110 million gross, with ticket prices say 6.00 for adults in 1996 .

Surprise Tim! Do the math.

It’s called the law of diminishing returns. Star Trek has been on a continual downward spiral with every subsequent new spin-off series released, culminating in a lowpoint with Nemesis in box office returns and viewership ratings of Enterprise. If memory serves, Enterpise commanded a laughable 2 million viewers per week, whereas the TNG averaged 15 million per week.

Yet people have the presumptuous, misguided audacity, the blatant fricking audacity to somehow suggest these spin-off series in some way, shape, or form came close to the impact STAR TREK had?

People have the audacity to defend Rick Berman for PERMITTING Star Trek to grind itself into the gutter from such once impactful cultural significance?

Shame on you.

“And I am actualy very hard to please, but I take t.v for what it is, entertainment nothing more. I enjoy shows but do not live my life by them, nor do I take offence if some one changes “cannon.” ”

I think that attitude says it all, and that attitude defines precisely why Star Trek as an intellectual property reached a lowpoint with Enterprise, and why there was question as to whether it would even continue as a form of entertainment.

Stop settling. Stop being content with any old shit shoveled in your face on TV every week. If this was Joanie Loves Chachie, no one would give a rats ass, but people CARE because of what Star Trek once was, and what we who were there saw it to be, what it represented and what it stood for.

THAT’S why people can’t stand Rick the Hatchetman Berman.

101. Xai - April 23, 2007

Josh, your info would be so much easier to digest without the attitude.
Tim, you got both barrels for calling him a few choice names.
Shame on you both. Act civil and really discuss it without the stabbing and people might actually listen.

Neither of you speak for anyone but yourselves and I think we all need to keep that in mind. Opinions are just that and not facts.
True?

102. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

No Xai, not really, it isn’t really an opinion that Trek has been on a downward spiral in terms of popularity, significance, import, or impact with every subsequent Berman incarnation.

If people like these shows fine, but when someone has the audacity to somehow begin contesting or challenging how TOS fits in here well, that’s when I begin taking issue.

103. Tim - April 23, 2007

101. Xai, I was not presuming to speak for anyone and I am sorry if it seemed I was. My outburst is due to the fact I cannot stand people making claims like this “I seriously hope you aren’t using the fact Berman had nude photographs of Paramount shareholders wives to blackmail them to keep his job 18 years as some sort of guage for the quality of his work” I do not care if you hate a person but to make a public claim like this is outrageous, and low, I am here to defend myself, Rick Berman is not, it is like hitting someone while their back is turned. Let him give me both barrels, I would rather defend Berman and cop it.

And adjusting for inflation First Contact is both the highest grossing and most profitable of all the movies followed by ST:IV. Again Xai i am sorry but I cannot abide the sort of attack Josh was launching, it had no resemblance of decency.

104. Tim - April 23, 2007

Josh, at what point did I contest TOS’s place in Star Trek, it started it, no one is disputing that. The dispute is this un-necessary bashing of Berman and his work. At no point have I mentioned TOS before, indeed my favourite flick is ST: VI, and favourite ep is Balance of Terror. Both of TOS lineage. My debate is about Berman bashing, not TOS rights.

105. Tim - April 23, 2007

I will correct myself, I did mention it in my first post though in no way did I attack it, I remarked about the “purists” at no point did I questions TOS place. And I made a reference to the hippies, from the shows 3rd season, another ep I liked.

106. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

Dude, I don’t know what made up resource you are citing but Star Trek- The Motion Picture is the highest grossing film, as well as selling the most tickets.

It’s arbitrary wankery such as making up “facts” that get’s my crawl.

Are you Rick Bermans nephew or something? How in the hell does it affect YOU personally if I insult Rick Berman exactly? How are you emotionally invested? Are you on his payrole? Are you Rick Berman? What business is it of yours what I say about Rick Berman?

107. Xai - April 23, 2007

#102 Josh
Well I do happen to like the other shows, and yes, it IS an opinion on the “downward spiral” you mentioned. But my point on #101 is that you both have good arguments to make but the BS you both spouted to insult the other degrades the value of your arguments.
I realize Tim fired the first salvo your way. I just point out that the conversation would be more valuable if it continued without the crap.
MY opinion.

X

108. Tim - April 23, 2007

Josh, some people in the world find it hard to swallow unsubstantiated attacks. I have never met the man. My issue, is such a statement like you made is utterly un-called for, it is not an insult it is a dirty and cheap shot.

“It’s arbitrary wankery such as making up “facts” that get’s my crawl.” And practice what you preach

109. Tim - April 23, 2007

107 Xai, yes I fired the first shot, and I fully accept that no argument.

110. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

Is Star Trek not on a decline?

Did the last series and last film not fail miserably?

Wasn’t viewership down for each progressive series?

Where exactly is the opinion here, I want to know?

Rick Berman is DESERVING of unsubstantiated attacks, you don’t find a fault with the man, since you find no fault with Star Treks current state of affairs evidently.

Where WOULD you then assign the blame for Star Treks faltering appeal and significance? Like Rick Berman says, the fans?

Why does everyone dance around the issue and not call a spade a spade?

Ricky Boy wont be hurt I promise, his feelings wont be hurt. He milked the sow long and hard and his mortgage is paid off.

111. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

Someone with far more influence than I, must have agreed with me, as Berman didn’t “resign”, the man was canned, kicked to the curb.

Why exactly? Wouldn’t 18 years of such a profound and insightful impact deserve some grace period and a few bad apples? Why was Berman abruptly canned?

The man was an embarassment to Star Trek that’s why. His wealthy studio benefactors left and left him high and dry, so rather than keeping him on as the briliiant keeper of the Trek flame he was, he was given his pink slip.

112. Tim - April 23, 2007

You know what? I liked TNG, DS9, ENT and alot of people did , and all the movies except Nemesis and you did not. It is my opinion that these shows were great, you disagree, I never denied ST declined and it hit rock bottom during ENT, no arguments.

Berman, Piller and later Manny Cotto delivered many hours of great Trek and not so great Trek. Rick Berman is gone and J.J Abrams is in, lets just see what direction the series heads in. I am tired of arguing, it is a persons perspective what shows they do or do not like same as a person may like a book and another hated it. I called people names and I am sorry, I feel that I was in the right but I should not have acted imaturely and for that I am sorry.

113. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/records/inflation.php

There it is for all the world to see.

Star Trek – TMP #131

Star Trek – First Contact #339

114. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

Someone owes me a God damned apology

115. Anthony Pascale - April 23, 2007

josh, tim tone it down and take it outside

and Josh…why is it every time there is some kind of argument going on it is always you?

116. Tim - April 23, 2007

Fine, the figures I was looking at were wrong, I freely admit it, no arguments. I am more than happy to admit when I am wrong.

117. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

I dont know Anthony, why dont you scroll up and read post #96 and ask the guy why out of nowhere he made some sort of personalized attack when I wasnt even posting messages.

#96

118. Tim - April 23, 2007

115. Anthony Pascale – April 23, 2007 – I am finished arguing. As I have said before I am very sorry.

119. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

Alright then Tim accepted.

Let me clue you in on a little fact about me since you don’t know me.

I don’t arbitrarily spout opinions and try to pass them off as facts. If I postulate a “fact” on here, it’s either something I know, or something I was uncertain of and went and looked up, if I’m uncertain about something, I keep my mouth shut. If I’m certain about something, I am vehement about it.

120. Tim - April 23, 2007

Anthony my reply was in respone to this post.

75. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat’s duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. – April 22, 2007.

121. Tim - April 23, 2007

Josh.T – I admitted my figures were to you, I did not appologise to you but to Xai and Anthony.

122. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

Well, there’s no way to prove that now, that was 20 years ago, I wouldnt even try. I know I sent the letter, and I know what it contained. So, it isn’t important anyone believe me, it isn’t like I am getting any money out of it or anything.

123. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

#120

Given everything, well, that makes perfect sense and sort of puts things into perspective.

124. Tim - April 23, 2007

122. Josh T. – A bit of advice? if you ever send anything to a film studio liek that again, make 3 additional copies, one for to with you, one for a relitve, and one for a solicitor. make sure that they are all signed by yourself and witness, with the date stamped, not written. That way, if something like this happens again, you will have claim to recognition.

125. Tim - April 23, 2007

Oh and I am not a producer I work in contracts. No hard feelings Josh?

126. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

None taken.

I was a kid back then. The drawing I did had absolutely nothing to do with the pedantic story ideas I had and submitted, it was completely arbitrary and just a mock up poster type image of Kirk, Picard, the Enterprise, and “Star Trek -Generations. Yesterday joins today, to save tommorow. ”
The image wasn’t related at all to the body of the letter.

Granted people can say that title is a “logical” title and anyone and their brother could have come up with it, but this was around 1990 or 1991, a full 4 years before that film was released, the show was even still on the air at that point. It was just entirely curious and coincedental.

127. Tim - April 23, 2007

Good point regarding “logical” the thing that interests me is the “sub heading” you had. Was not the official one Two Captains? From my point of view it sounds like an abridged form of the one you submitted. If you look at them closely they both have the same point, if you know what I mean?

128. Tim - April 23, 2007

Sory two captiain one destiny?

129. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

I know, thats why I always felt and truly believed when it came time to produce a motion picture, Berman already had the basic core concept sitting right there. The “poster image” for the film.

But that’s the dilemma, it’s only something only I know, it could never stand in a court of law, the letter and drawing would have LONG ago been discarded.

The only satisfaction I have and carry, is the knowledge that if all things are truly “revealed” as some people claim, upon all of our deaths, there is a very real possibility we will all learn I was responsible for the title of the Seventh Star Trek film.

130. Tim - April 23, 2007

One thing josh, please don’t claim credit for crashing the E-D, I liked that ship, and as a kid it killed me watching it crash.

131. Josh T. (The Phantom Shat's duotronic hairpeice removal kit) Kirk Esquire. - April 23, 2007

Oh no the drawing had nothing to do with the story ideas I submitted to Nicholas Meyer or Rick Berman, which were absolutely childish and lame, if memory serves, something about a renegade cyborg. How original. I was just a kid.

Trust me, had I had any sort of story approval, the Fat Swan Enterprise – D wouldn’t have even factored into the film. ;) heh

132. Tim - April 23, 2007

Good then.

133. brady - April 24, 2007

probably wayyyyyyyy to late in this tread to add to it but here goes…what was star treks downfall……going back to a network…..why did tos last 3 seasons…network,,,why did enterprise last 3 but end up with 4…network. syndication is the only way to be creative and get away with it…the show is bought by stations as a season run ,,,moneys paid its a done deal…sure ratings have a part but more stations pick up the show and theres not the you better be ready to watch at 8pm wed. constraint. you dont get the noone watched us last week we may be cancelled pressure that affected tos,enterprise and voyagers last few seasons. if they ever do make another series they realy need to get back to the syndicated way of selling the show. ps manny coto and season 4 of enterprised rocked.

134. SithMenace - April 24, 2007

This was hands down the funniest thread I have ever read on this site.

135. Woulfe - April 24, 2007

Let’s see….

1. Rick Berman hates Star Trek fans….
2. Star Trek fans forgive him ?

What’s wrong with this picture ?

– W –
* Personally Speaking, I’m Glad He’s Gone *

136. Lord Garth Formerly of Izor - April 24, 2007

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz………………What were we talking about??? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

137. xai - April 24, 2007

I am glad most of the venom was spilled in here and not all over the important news threads

138. xai - April 24, 2007

Throwing some other information into the room about TV viewership of the “berman” shows…

http://www.treknation.com/articles/ratings_history.shtml

for your consideration…

139. Lukas - April 24, 2007

Thank you Rick Berman for giving us 20 years of fantastic Star Trek (the laster and better years of TNG) DS9 (even though it was mainly Behr, Moore and Pillars show) Voyager (FORGET IT) Enterprise was a Masterpiece from day one Generations was a cool way to continue the Trek movie franchise and what can I say about FC other than the best Trek Movie ever made Insurrection was also pretty good and Nemesis could’ve been better.

By the way ask any critic TNG is the greatest Trek show! The most celebrated and the highest rating and hell when you think about it just to get back at all you TNG bashers Enterprise went longer than TOS.

140. Xai - April 24, 2007

Lukas…. I liked the later series as well… but do you feel the need to “get back” at the bashers? A little peace goes a long way…

141. Stanklin T. McFibberich - April 24, 2007

re:139. Lukas

A big reason the later series went longer than STAR TREK is that they were not on major networks. None of them would have lasted as long had they been primetime shows on CBS, NBC, or ABC.

As for Next Generation being the most celebrated…I don’t think so. Even though I am not crazy (to put it mildly) about this new movie, it does show that Kirk-era STAR TREK continues to have the following for the studio to want to bring it back. The Remastered project is another example of this. I seriously doubt the Next Generation will ever be brought back.

142. Xai - April 24, 2007

#141 Stanko
Huh? On your first paragraph… I don’t follow the logic of that. TNG and the following sisters had to compete with those network shows…. not with the shows on their own network. If anything these shows had to be stronger to make up for being syndicated or on the stupid UPN network which had less than 60% coverage of the American TV market at the time of ENT.
Check this out.
http://www.treknation.com/articles/ratings_history.shtml

143. Xai - April 24, 2007

Josh….
wait a minute, YOU invented Generations?

(snicker…)

And they say God has no sense of humor…. well except for the giraffe fiasco.

144. Josh T. ( The Phantom Shatner's Nacelle spinning hairpeice removal kit ) Kirk Esquire' - April 25, 2007

No Xai,

I merely mailed Rick Berman a letter in roughly 1990 or 1991 with some immature, pedantic, childish story ideas, and just happened to include an arbitrary drawing featuring Captains Kirk, Picard, the Enteprise, and the words “Star Trek- Generations. Yesterday joins today, to save tommorow. “

145. brady - April 25, 2007

as for the most viewership…i dont have those numbers but i do know that in the 60’s with only 3 networks….to be a hit you had to have around 50 million viewers…so im sure even though tos was cancelled it by far had the most viewers of any star trek series ,,just not enough for a 3 network system…which leads back to a previous posting of mine..if anyone has the actual numbers please link them.

146. Tim - April 25, 2007

138. xai – April 24, 2007 – Thanks for the link, it was very interesting reading. I’d always felt, that too much pressure was placed on the later series being only broadcast on UPN. But I must say that I do feel some of the blame for VOY is that at times, I personaly felt liek it was the Cpt. Janeway show, and not an ensamble like TNG DS9 nad ENT. But expecting any show to survive and be a hit when it can only reach 60 percent of an audience is a tall ask. I would love to see the ratings for ENT, I have a feeling the last season with Manny Cotto guiding the show would have seen a pick up in viewership. But unfortunately the networks took Star Trek for granted at times, changing it’s time slot and days, and putting it on a network heading for disaster. I have said it before and will say it again, if there is to be another pre-qual show, or any show Manny Cotto should be heading it up.

147. Lukas - April 26, 2007

Coto and Moore should be brought in for Xi as well as Taylor NOW THATS A GUARANTEED PERFECT SCRIPT. Also Chattaway for the score at least he knows Trek, Zimmerman should’ve been brought in as well even that spin off haters can agree those people were fantastic at their jobs!

148. Xai - April 26, 2007

#147
Script’s been written.
Composer’s been hired.
Z has retired.
Good thoughts, but too late..sorry.

149. Tim - April 26, 2007

147. Lukas – April 26, 2007 – Agree a perfect team! Also bring in Nic Myer, he was involved in some of Treks greatest sucesses.

148. Xai – April 26, 2007 – unfortunately you are right :-(

Possible a team for Trek XII, or the next series.

150. David - February 8, 2009

Still waiting… Can’t wait to read this book!

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