25 Years Ago Today… June 4, 2007
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Feature Films (TMP-NEM) , trackbackJune 4th 1982 Nicholas Meyer and Harve Bennett saved Star Trek.
I will never forget seeing Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan on that opening day – the first of many times. Like many other kids, Star Trek: The Motion Picture in 1979 just didn’t work for me after falling in love with Trek through syndicated reruns. I had even begun to say things like "Star Wars is better than Star Trek." Khan restored my faith and my loyalty. It is still my favorite film in the franchise, and to this day I get chocked up during the Spock scene in engineering. I am not alone, JJ Abrams also says that TWOK is his favorite.
It is also undeniable how important the film was to the franchise. After Paramount was somewhat disappointed that TMP didn’t make Star Wars like money TWOK made the franchise viable again (albeit on a smaller scale than they had originally hoped). The film launched what is considered the ‘holy trinity’ of Trek films…the II, III, IV trilogy. The success of those films in the 80s convinced Paramount to make Star Trek: The Next Generation and the rest is history.
Lets hope that 12.25.08 is just as big of an event in Trek history, and brings in another 25 years for the franchise.
Star Trek II Links:
Star Trek II Trailer (YouTube)
See Wrath of Khan in LA with Nicholas Meyer.
Geek Monthly is hosting a 1982 Film Festival at the Aero Theater in Santa Monica. Star Trek II will be shown on Sunday June 17th and Nick Meyer will be there to talk about the film. I will be there along with my fellow Geeks Jeff Bond and Mark Altman who put it all together. A full report will be up at both GeekMonthly.com and TrekMovie.com following the show. More info at the American Cinematheque
VOTE in the latest poll – how great is TWOK?
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Comments»
KAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHNNNNN!
Well, at least your version doesn’t drag like the director’s cut. (joke)
(The first post just HAD to say that!) :-)
yes…but spelling it right would have helped.
it is KHHHHHAAAAAAAAAANNNNNN!
the Hs are in front of the As
TWOK = the Jewel in the Crown of Star Trek, Myer gave Trek back to itself and the fans.
I’ve seen it over 200 times, and I still have it memorized to this day.
i was there opening day, baby!!
The first time we went to see this, I heard someone complaining it was too much like an episode from the series. I remember thinking how great that was. TMP tried way too hard to be Star Wars. TWOK was Trek pure and simple. Seen as a sea adventure, sure, but that IS one good approach to Trek.
If Frank Miller “gave Batman his balls back,” then Nicholas Meyer gave Trek its swagger back.
They wrote in themes beautifully. It worked so well. Such a perfect blend of hardcoreness and Drama. I love this movie.
Abrams had better do something of equal, or at least close, magnificence !
Let’s all give thanks for the outstanding contributions of Nicholas Meyer and Harve Bennett towards saving Trek. The work these men did cannot be overestimated. “The Making of the Trek Films” presents great insight into the making of Trek II.
Star Trek II is the best film in the whole franchise. Hands down, it’s the one!!
wooo wooo wooo wooo wooo wooo wooo wooo wooo wooo wooo wooo wooo wooo woooo wooooo
It’s so funny to think of Kirk’s really over the top KHAN! scream and his current excitment during his race with the stars adventure
Am I the only one that rates the first motion picture as the best (especially The Directors Edition!!!). While I do admit …II , IV, VI were good fun, I admire the strong effort made with the first one. With it’s impressive visuals and superior soundtrack it took Star Trek to another level. After watching it again (The Directors Edition), I do believe it has aged much less then the others. Call me crazy…..
I remember I went to see this film on opening day at the theater. When the film started, and the old TOS fanfare started playing as the stars were displayed on the screen, the audience went wild. One curious thing I remember from the first showing, the opening credits showed the title of the film as Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan” without the “II”. The next time I saw it in the theater, it appeared to be a different print because the “II” had been put in the title.
#12 – Moonwatcher, I agree with you completely. I can’t exactly say why, but STMP holds up best to repeat watchings. I have even grown fond of its, let us say, stately pace. Most of the later movies — as much as I dearly love them — look a bit dated today. Not so, STMP.
http://khanatemyicecream.ytmnd.com/
While I still enjoy the first TREK film I feel they were going for the 2001 A SPACE ODYSSEY vibe. I recall my father took my brothers and I to the first film and I think he got a bit bored. I think he would of done better at the second one.;) Ironically I think KHAN got the human adventrue moving. I like the character driven feel with action of this film. The death scene is still strong and I wonder what if Spock had not been brought back?
I stand correeeeeeeeeeected (Guess my Trek Spell Checker missed that one.) Can’t you edit that out or something? How embaaaaaaaaaarrassing!
:-)
Guess this answers my questions from earlier today
The most over rated movie ever made. Militant, corny, inconsistent, and the antagonists never even meet face to face.
Windsor Bear, I saw a print of Trek 2 a few years ago and noticed the II missing as well. I think they did that to make it seem lke it had nothing to do with TMP as it was also left off the novelization.
http://khaaan.com/
The Wrath Of Khan does have a powerful death scene, but you would think they could have sprang for a few more bucks on the radiation chamber set. I swear Spock was going to rip out the entire (cardboard???) fire hydrant ???… when he manually??? took It’s lid off… to reach in???and put “the mains back on line”. I’m just saying.
#6, re: having TWOK memorized —
Back in those days, before VCRs were common, before DVDs and before BitTorrent, a friend of mine snuck a tape recorder into the theater and taped TWOK. No, not a videotape recorder — an audio cassette recorder. I made a copy of his tapes, and *listened* to TWOK, sound only, dozens of times in the years that followed. I had all the dialogue memorized, and could recite the thing from start to finish (or at least I was convinced I could — nobody ever had the patience to find out). I even had the audience responses memorized. In a way, I think the audio-only experience added its own kind of power to the film, the way listening to a good radio play does. In my mind, it grew to be this amazing, epic thing.
I still think it was one of the best Trek movies, despite its faults (and my opinion of TMP has risen a lot), but it’s definitely the one that I’m most nostalgic about.
#23 — I always thought of it as some kind of giant thermos, myself.
#23 A giant thermos, not bad … : ) Anyone else have an idea what the hell it was….and how something like that would work on a star ship in the 24th century. It looked like something right out of Flash Gordon!!!! OK,… breath breath… I’m done venting. It’s still a good movie, but not the best.
#23, you’d think an actual engineer would have risked his life for the entire ship. In fact, I don’t understand why Kirk didn’t order someone to fix the “mains” instead of waiting for death. And why did the radiation clear up after the mains went back online?
This movie was my first real experience with Trek, and it was what drew me into it. I agree that it is the best movie in the franchise, though I do feel that the dialog was a bit stiff in some scenes, especially when compared to the show it was continuing. I agree with the assertion that this movie is what saved Star Trek.
27 – I agree. The only way it makes *any* sense is if all engineering personnel were so physically incapacitated that they *couldn’t* do it. Scotty certainly seems to be having problems, but he perks up a lot once Spock goes into the thermos chamber. I don’t know…maybe what Spock was doing would simply have killed a human. But isn’t that what those radiation suits are for?
And actually, now that I think of it, weren’t the mains taken offline by Scotty? “Sir, I’ve got to take the mains off the line….it’s ra…diation…” That starts to sound like he wasn’t taking the system offline because it wasn’t working, but because it was killing the personnel in engineering. Certainly regrettable if so, but it seems to me that it would be better to leave them online and warp the rest of the crew to safety than to let everyone die….
The choice of title for this thread is entirely subjective and relative to individual taste and I have to disagree with the notion.
Khans’ critical and commercial success notwithstanding, Harve Bennett and Nicholas Myer were not responsible for “saving” Star Trek, as it was not LOST.
Theres’ was simply a different approach and take to the material, departing from the grander conceptualization of Star Trek, and returning to a more dimestore shoestring mentality where spectacle alone wouldn’t suffice and characterizations would have to take center stage again.
It’s a common misnomer that The Wrath of Khan is the most commercially “successful” Trek film, when in reality that distinction belongs to the predecessor, The Motion Picture.
The Wrath of Khan and The Motion Picture actually make good companion pieces, stark contrasts that as a whole give a more unified image of Roddenberrys universe.
Whereas in The Motion Picture, the events propelled the characters forward and they served the story, conversely, the characters in Wrath of Khan propell the story and the events serve the characters.
The Motion Picture is commonly regarded as bland and too conceptually stylized, high brow, I would argue The Wrath of Khan is entirely too militaristic and gunboat diplomacy oriented. From the Napoleonic blood colored uniforms, to the submarine like Torpedo bay, it’s very easy to see why Roddenberry was mildly put off by some of Myers decisions.
If a happy medium could be found between the first two films, I suspect a true representation of Roddenberrys vision could be experienced.
Wrath of Khan is an excellent adventure story, and good character study, but make no mistake, it completely undermines the very notion and concept of what Star Trek represents.
Where are the strange new worlds? Where are the new life forms and new civilizations?
Genesis was incorporated into the film last minute as an attempt to address and appease these glaring omissions, where before, you had a simple revenge story, and even with the addition of Genesis, it still remains a film about the inability to let go of hatred.
Wrath of Khan is a good amalgamation of literary concepts, but at the end of the day, it doesn’t really do much to move the Star Trek concept forward- with the death of Spock and subsequent film, it actually took a step backwards, or at minimum, sidestep.
As far as the concept of Star Trek is concerned, the first and fourth film probably best capture the essence of what Star Trek is trying to say, despite how people may percieve how successful the execution of the concepts were.
Vejur, and the Cetacean probe scream of Star Trek, and exploration and discovery of new life.
I agree with you Josh T.
i use to love trek2 thought it was the best but over the years as i get to understand trek more im not such a fan, tmp is such a better film dont get me wrong i still enjoy it but its not true to genes concepts and after its his baby
While we are on the subject of nostalgia, my GOD look at this GEM!
Anthony this may deserve a special link and headline geez.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEgsfo0JDU4
I semi-prefer Star Trek – The Motion Picture because it has an almost Illiad/Odyssey quality to it. These characters were larger than life and assembled together to confront probably the most epic threat Earth has ever faced, even worse than the Borg.
The merging of Decker/Illia/Vejur is PURE Star Trek and the film is all about growth and expanding your horizons. The score is unrivaled, the Enterprise never looked better, and this film is the only film in the entire series that looks and feels “futuristic”, even the 70’s hairstyles, uniforms, and color schemes of the film are tommorow-like.
Klingons.
These were real Klingons, not the grunting, sweating, Barbarian variety but highly intelligent, sophisticated, and intimidating aliens. The first shot you are instantly transported to an alien submarine that’s been at “sea” too long. Mark Lenard has more charisma and presence as a Klingon than a combined 21 seasons of TNG/DS9 and Voyager, and he didn’t utter a word of English. Powerful.
This film is HIGHLY underrated.
I remember how disappointed I was on a rainy day in Brighton, when my aunt took my brother and me to see the film and we couldn’t get into the cinema. I was seven and it was 1982.
TMP and Khan reflect two opposite poles of the Star Trek universe. There were similar stories in TOS, but TOS, as it originally was could never transfer directly from TV to cinema. TMP went for the purely cerebral, favouring intellectual discussion and the minute details of a mission. It’s a film with great intellectual pretensions and great visuals. However, it can be said that the humans play second fiddle to the machines in this film, especially as the film’s lit and angles to make the crew only look a couple of years older than they were in the TV show.
TWOK, on the other hand goes straight for the balls. The story reflects the likes of Space Seed and Balance of Terror. The people are most important thing here. TWOK strips Trek back to its basics again and gives it a Hornblower veneer. For me, the film works better. TOS was about exploring strange new worlds, but we often had stories featuring fun bad guys and, after the first movie, TWOK was a nice change of pace. Oh, and as in Balance of Terror, I like the fact that the commanders of the two ships don’t meet in the flesh. I mean, why should they?
It’s easy to be critical of TWOK now, given the rest of the later film series tried to emulate it and always feature (excepting STIV) a major guest villain.
But for sheer visceral thrills, great music, great visuals, great dialogue and great cast chemistry, TWOK is unbeatable.
Bring it on JJ!!!
‘lit and angled’ even!!
Damn typos!!
Trek II = Fucking godamn bone fide MASTERPIECE!!
TWOK isnt only the best Trek film BY FAR its also one of the best Sci Fi films ever made…up there with the likes of Blade Runner, Empire Strikes, Aliens and 2001…I’ve had friends who have absoultly HATED star trek yet upon seeing WOK they’ve gone ‘man that was fricking awesome..’
I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that Abrams MAY be gonna use TWOK as a kind of springborad for his prequel (Kobiashi Maru, Carol Marcus, similar militeristic tone etc)…
i’m still pissed at there being no Comic Adaptation though…my comic shelf looks so empty without it (DC didnt aquire the rights untill after II from Marvel so there was no comic for Trek II)..u’d think some comic company would say ‘fuck it lets do it!’ and do a fucking awesome graphic novel…
Anyone bought any of the new 25th anniversary action figures yet? what about the battle damaged Enterprise model? is it worth getting??
btw for the record after Trek II (which is in a league of its own) I think the next best film is SEARCH FOR SPOCK (yeah thats right – u heard me right – EAT IT!), then First Contact, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country….then u got the ones that are ok – Motion Picture and Generations…then the 3 that are downright awful – Nemesis, Final Front and Insurrection..
I saw TWOK on opening day at the Warner Theatre in Pittsburgh. It was one of those single-screen urban theatres where the screen was huge and the sat several hundred people (not so anymore).
When the movie started it was just STAR TREK, no roman numeral II was ever present. The audience broke into huge applause. I’ve never seen any such reaction since or at any TNG movies (but then TNG fans didn’t have a 10 year gap between series and movies!).
I couldn’t believe how many people were in tears at the end. And I remember the woman sitting behind me, gasping for breath, as she said between desparate sobs “he’s not dead” at the final torpedo seen on the Genesis planet.
That was a great movie experience that has yet to be repeated. I don’t know if JJ Abrams can match that but wish him luck. TWOK casts a long shadow that no other Trek movie has been able to step outside of.
“TWOK casts a long shadow that no other Trek movie has been able to step outside of. ”
yep – this is especially true of TNGs movie efforts which always seemed to be trying to find its own ‘Wrath of Khan’ – they did manage it with the 2nd film – First Contact which had plenty of references with the need for revenge theme, Moby Dick (i remember when i saw it at the cinema and my friend whispered ‘Wrath of Khan’ when Picard went into his moby dick speech) and was the 2nd much improved action packed film with different uniforms….
They made Nemesis a virtual redoing of WOK – its structurally very similar…plus tacked elements of Star Trek III on the end (absent friends….Datas ‘katra’…spacedock..everyone going their own way…)…Didnt work though…
Good lord, it cannot *possibly* have been a quarter-century ago. Damn I’m old.
Yep, I was there opening day, too, and I do feel old when I remember that it was 25 years ago, but that was also the year I graduated from High School (a week or two earlier) so lots of great memories about the summer of ‘82. Wrath of Khan, E.T., Poltergeist, Rocky III… one fun, exciting movie after another that summer. (Obligatory old-timer whine… “they don’t make ‘em like they used to!”)
#12 moonwatcher
Love the original Movie best too…despise the new dull uniforms and Bridge though…
As a kid I was much more impressed with WOK, as an adult, I’m much more impressed with TMP. In the case of the directors cuts, The Directors cut of TMP vastly improved that movie, while the directors cut of WOK, brought it down and slowed the pacing (particularly Scotties nephew… booooring).
TMP lacked a bit of human dramatic interaction, I feel if they played up the emotional impact between all the characters a bit more it would have been great. There was a bigger story to tell between Decker & Kirk, as well as the big three. (I also would have dramatically edited down the wormhole sequence which contained some of the most embarassing bouncing around in Trek History)
In the end I do find myself going back to TMP more often than the others. But will agree that WOK put that shot back in the arm after TMP failed to impress across the board in what is really it’s unfinished form when released.
Doug
I remember seeing a print ad for STII as a kid, with Kirk’s son David holding a knife over him and was freaked out that they were going to kill off Kirk! Alas, a beloved character did end up dying anyway.
Anyone remember In Living Color’s “The Wrath of Farrakhan”? :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNCYcYQXKHI
I, too, was there on opening day (at age 13) and I will never forget it. I remember a series of daily ads in The Chicago Tribune starting 7 days out: “7 Days to Star Trek — The Wrath of Khan … At the End of the Universe Lies the Beginning of Vengeance.” Of course I clipped them all, as well other ads and the reviews from all the papers I could get my hands on. I probably have video of TV reviews somewhere as we were the first family on the block to get a VCR in 1981 ($750!). I remember snagging a glossy brochure about the movie at the theater and then later buying the novelization by Vonda McIntyre and the photobook, which I subsequently cut into pieces to make a huge storyboard of the movie on my bedroom wall … for years it was the first thing I woke up to and I remember often lying in bed in the morning reliving the story.
Ah, misty water-color memories …
Imagine if you will, that instead of Khan, Harve Bennett chose another of Kirk’s notible advacaries with so-called delusions of galatic grandure,… imageine……. “GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
One favorite scene, Enterprise slowly backs away and banks to starboard trying to flee damaged Reliant.
See this film using an 1080i upconverting DVD player. I’m getting an Oppo 981HD player soon and then will revisit all the ST films again. Got to get my Trek fix every so often.
RE: cassette tape memories….
I went to a drive-in theater showing of it after the first run, and took along my boombox tape deck. I tuned it to the radio channel that broadcast the audio (for those that didn’t like the speakers on the pole). I taped the whole thing in STEREO and listened back to it numerous times, as I did the TV episodes I had taped in years before.
Yes, life was good.
I liked TWOK. Anything with Ricardo Montalbahn is already a few notches better coming out of the gate.
Several things:
- I never liked the movie uniforms, especially the ones TWOK spawned
- It’s too bad that Kirk and Khan did not square off face to face. The viewscreens didn’t quite get to an in person confrontation.
- I never understood why all the surviving followers of Khan were young (and white)
- With the sophistication of 23rd Century technology, how could Ceti Alpha V be mistaken for Ceti Alpha VI? Wouldn’t some Federation astronomical observatory or probe taken notice a planetary body exploding? Couldn’t the crew of the Reliant figure it out?
- How could the Reliant have trouble finding planets without life? That seems strange…
However, TWOK did save the franchise and propelled it to unforeseen heights. Maybe if Gene Coon had not died, TMP might have been better. (Roddenberry almost killed his baby twice. First with TMP and then with the first 20 episodes of TNG. Thank God ST5 came out after TNG launched….)
Best line:
KHAN:
“You are in a position to demand nothing. I, on the other hand, am in a position to grant nothing.”
Nice.
Both TMP and TWOK are great films! They are different. I’ve seen TMP first and it amazed me more than TWOK, but overall I like TWOK better.
Garth: It would’ve been an interesting idea! A shape-shifting megalomaniac ex-starship captain… Maybe we could’ve seen great morphing effects! :-D
I’ll never be able to understand people dissing TWOK uniforms….They are THE BEST Star Trek uniforms out of them all!!
what u prefer TMPs pjs? or TNGs awful jumpsuits?
Uniforms? Are we talkin’ ’bout uniforms? Not the movies, but uniforms. Uniforms. Uniforms? I can see movies, but uniforms?
Thank you, Allen Iverson.
Anyways I always liked 6 best, but who’s counting.
Oh, and to no. 39…don’t forget bolting on bits of The Undiscovered Country (making peace with big Federation enemy, enemy ship with cloaking device, Enterprise being owned by this ship until an ally shows up to take some fire until they figure out how to locate it)
23 – Thank you. There are a few thing only to complain about in TWOK. The fact that the E went from matter-anti-matter to nuclear NEVER makes sense. That, and the image of Spock in Mickey Mouse gloves.
54: Nuclear? Not sure I follow…. Anti-matter engines all the way as far as I could see… but the radiation leakage coming from the intermix chamber is not nuclear radiation, simply radiation from the energy that results from destruction of matter.
On the uniforms.. the best Trek uniforms ever, came out of TWOK. Better than the TV show even. The only time Picard ever looked dashing in a Starflett uniform was when he wore the movie one in “Tapestry.”
“It’s a common misnomer that The Wrath of Khan is the most commercially “successful” Trek film, when in reality that distinction belongs to the predecessor, The Motion Picture.”
firstly i believe the word would be ‘misperception’ and not ‘misnomer’
secondly ‘commercial success’ would clearly be defined beyond just ‘total gross’ STII made almost the same, but cost a fraction of the original. Plus the first film was targetting Star Wars kind of money and Star wars made 3 times as much as TMP, also with a much smaller budget. If Paramount considered it a success they would not have bought out Roddenberry and then kicked him to the curb. They would not have gone forward with a movie that essentially ignored the previous one in both the story and the look.
People hate the word, but TMP was a ‘reboot’ of Star Trek and it didnt work, Star Trek II was a second reboot that did work. The trilogy it launched and the TV show those luanched is proof.
And when you look at popular culture…how many TMP parodies are there out there? how many TMP mashups on youtube? the film still has resonance and just look at the poll.
Yes TMP has its moments, but star trek should never have been shoehorned into the 2001 intellectual model…it was always a classic adventure story and that is what STII remembered
I must admit i was too young to see it in theaters, but i still remmeber the first time I saw it on VHS does that count?
Random Thoughts and Reactions to the above:
As for which movie is the best – I say…Star Trek the Motion Picture…I have it on regularly…
In order…I, III, II, IV, (VI and V tied for last)
Wrath of Khan is a good movie for sure, but does not hold up as well as the first movie…I do like how The Wrath of Khan is kind of like a TV episode…
And count me as one who does not like the uniforms starting with Star Trek II…I like the series uniforms the best…not even close…
just checking in here….glad so many others feel as I do about STII. current poll has it at 70% ‘greatest’.
But to be clear as I talked about star trek, I was talking about how STII ’saved’ trek for me personally…as the rest of that notes. Some may hate this notion, but Star trek has to have kid appeal. the show did, STII did, but TMP did not. I have grown to like it more as an adult. However I hope that JJA makes star trek have wide appeal and kid appeal again.
anyway this is just a anniversary thread and not the place for heated debates.
I love all star trek….from TMP to STV to even VOY
Just watched TMP recently(for the umteenth time). Robert Wise sure had a great understanding of framing for and placing objects in widescreen. The V’Ger encounter at the climax always struck me as being very much like a stage play, and I love how everybody chimes in with figuring out what V’Ger is and wants. And, Boy, Miss Khambatta was a Hottie!
TWOK is definately not the best scifi ever. There’s so much wrong with this movie. Including the insulting inclusion of an instant family for kirk to give him motivation. We know that this man is motivated by his ship and crew, he doesnt need more. I understand hes having his midlife crisis, and thats a good concept, but a son and wife were not a good solution. Even the writers knew it was bad since they kill david in the next movie.
And lets not forget that Kahn and Kirk NEVER MEET. There’s no direct contact between the two. They say no more than 5 lines directly to eachother. They don’t speak during or after the battle. These are two archnemeses with planet sized personalities and they never interact. We actually get more direct interaction between Kirk and Krug in TSFS and they have zero history.
I could nit pick this movie to death, including the near unlimited power of genesis to make planets and stars, or Scotty bringing his nephew to the bridge not sickbay, or spocks unrealistic suicide. But the fundamental premise of the movie stinks.
The film sets the standard for TREK now and forevermore. It rescued the franchise when it was down. It changed Trek as we knew it.
#62 “Spock’s unrealistic suicide”
Let’s see, Spock is on the bridge when he hears Kirk say “we need warp speed in three minutes or WE’RE ALL DEAD!” Spock realizes that he must SACRIFICE HIS LIFE in order to save the rest of the crew, since if he doesn’t, they ALL DIE ANYWAY! Seems pretty darn logical, not to mention noble, to me. Why do you consider such an act of bravery and sacrifice to be unrealistic?
If anyone’s going to nit pick TWOK, might as well start with The Cage or Where No Man Has Gone Before. As Uhura says in TSFS, “This isn’t reality, this is fantasy!”. You can find your logical Sci-Fi elsewhere.
Sorry folks, Khan takes it.
TMP…. if you have to watch it over and over to have it “grow” on you, forget it. A good movie? Heck yes. But I can only watch the pulsing, budget-busting, V’ger SFX for so long before the fast forward button is utilized. The story suffered because of the over-long V’ger sequences and frankly, there was not much story to be had. There were “possibilities” of a fleshed-out story, but it never materialized. A pity.
I thought the five second cut dragged.
Josh T. — Thanks for the link to the PM Magazine take on Trek.
So many mixed feelings… on the late Persis Khambetta (sp?), disco Shatner… and the cheeseball way PM Magazine was put together. (The host doesn’t even acknowledge the reporter.)
All seriousness aside, those who don’t think TWOK is the best are weirdos with cooties. :D
I still feel The Motion Picture captured the Heart of Soul of Star Trek perfectly. Star Trek is about the human adventure not space battles.
( I can see how DS9 rotted peoples brains with that)
Yes TMP’s script done it was something that did hurt the film on the fly and the film franchise itself owes its existence to Star Wars. Whcih also owes did Disney with Black Hole, So did universal with the Classic Battlestar Galactica and the list goes on.
Frankly the directors cut for the first two films is simply a better cut. Taking the crap out of it. Their are missing scenes of Wrath of Khan still never made the last DVD. Which is disappointing which you can find loose on the internet somewhere.
I like Wrath of Khan its a decent film better costumes better drama. Best Trek critically yes ….Ever? No.
At least I’m employed more educated out of my parents basement, and yes better looking .
64# Spock isnt even an engineer. There were tons of engineers downstairs and Kirk couldn’t make the decision to sacrifice one for the rest of the ship? They even touched on this in TNG when deana was taking her command test and had to order jeordi to die.
I think that TWOK is a better movie than TMP; it has narrative momentum that grabs you and pulls you through. But TMP, to me, is the last time the characters were all, recognizably and unequivocally, the same people we’d seen on the TV series. They were a but more dour and sober, but they were the same people. TWOK was the first one to start straining credulity in bringing all of the characters back together again, and also the first to start charicaturing them.
I actually don’t mind the uniforms so much, but it would’ve been much better if they’d kept the original bright color scheme (black pants, r/g/b shirts).
I remember the teaser poster in the lobby of the movie house, that read “Guess why they’re putting seatbelts in movie theaters this year?” I also remember being allowed to skip school to see the first afternoon showing. Then when the fanfare started I was in love. It’s the closest a 9 year can come to an orgasm, imho. LOL I remember being startled when I first saw the Reliant. I thought it was the E until I saw the registry number, during the overhead flyby. I also remember how sad we were walking out of the theater. Who knew Spock would be back in III? It seemed so final. Man, what an emotional rollercoaster! What a mindf#%k! Never felt that way about a piece of entertainment before, & only twice since – TSFS, TVH. – The best sci fi trilogy of all time!
Hmm…I think I remember the “guess why they’re putting seatbelts” teaser as being related to ST 5. Did they use it more than once?
#71
Your opinions have been rendered moot as you can’t spell “Geordi”.
I believe that as far as what TWOK set out to acomplish, it did well. That was to put asses in the seats. It was a good time watching a Star Trek movie and it helped to further the franchise.
#70 Redshirt
Really. My brain doesn’t feel rotted. Perhaps in the Trek universe, like the real one, things happen. People seek revenge, wars take place, people die. Not every day can we seek out the new civilizations, because sometimes a madman comes calling or a space probe comes home.
I like the Trek Universe now at 40 years old because it ISN’T always about finding a new Earth-like planet with a Roman/Nazi/Amerind/Computer ruled group of human look-alikes that need to be saved from themselves.
72…
To me, Spock was VERY different in ST:TMP than he had been in the series (deliberately so, he was supposed to be post-Kohlinar Spock). Kirk was a little off, too. McCoy was pretty close to normal. The others had too little to do to really make a call, although Uhura has a great line not heard in the theatrical version (her line about their chances of surving doubling because Kirk has taken command, not heard until the ABC edit.)
I love ST:TMP. The original theatrical version was poorly edited (due to Paramount-imposed time constraints) but the story was interesting (only the long approach to Vger is really boring, I greatly enjoy -then and now- the long initial flyaround of the Enterprise) and Goldsmith gave us one of the all-time great movie scores. Even so, first the ABC TV version was better, and then the 2001 Director’s Edition was better still. It is an unfairly maligned movie, almost exclusively because of the overlong Vger flyover in the initial release, but the pajama uniforms and the stilted performances (especially Ilia, the Epsilon 9 crew, and the bland Enterprise crewmembers like DeFalco) works against it.
But TWOK is better. It was 15 years after TOS, so it wasn’t a bad idea to acknowledge the passage of time via Kirk’s midlife crisis. Despite its faults (my main gripes are that the Reliant failed to notice a planet missing in the Ceti Alpha system and thst the Enterprise was said to be the only ship in the quadrant even though the Reliant was supposed to be there, too…), it remains the finest Trek film.
Tom (#39),
Well I’ll be damned. I’m also from Pittsburgh and I was at the Warner Theater opening day as well! I was 15 and I skipped school with a bunch of my friends to go see the movie. I’m so glad someone else remembers that the original title had no “II” attached to it. I’ve been arguing with my friends for what seems like 25 years about that.
Wait…it has been 25 years. Oh my God.
Your story about the woman sobbing reminded me of the couple who were sitting behind me. The woman was crying uncontrollably repeating over and over “he’s not dead…he can’t be dead.” Her companion was very comforting, saying “it’s okay, baby, it’s gonna be okay…”
I still remember looking over at my friend and seeing a tear roll down his cheek, then realizing that one was rolling down mine as well. Then an uproarious standing ovation at the end as the credits rolled. It was obvious to all of us that Star Trek was back. We stayed planted in our seats for two more showings that day; it’s one of my fondest memories from my teenage years.
ST:TMP is a great film (especially the finally-finished Director’s Cut). It makes the 23rd century seem real and there is a palpable sense of awe and wonder to it. But for pure, punch-to-the-gut emotional impact and spot-on-target characterizations, TWOK simply cannot be beat. It has been, and always should be, the benchmark against which all other Trek films will be judged. And justifiably so.
#71
It’s difficult to accept your argument that because they addressed the issue of ordering a crew member to their death in TNG, that Kirk should have thought of it in TWOK. Firstly, we’re talking about 78 years prior, so maybe that wasn’t a strategy recommended by Starfleet during that era. Secondly, Kirk had just found out the dynamics of the dilemna and was reacting, as he always did, in trying to save EVERYBODY on the ship. You’ve had many years to ruminate on the scenario and play “Monday morning quarterback”, Kirk had three minutes. I would also suggest that there was insufficient time for the Captain to pragmatically conclude to sacrifice an “engineer”, call that lucky individual up on the intercom, convince them to die for the good of the ship and have them carry out the repairs in the time allotted. Nice try, but no dice!
Ah.. 25 years.. admittedly I’m not sure when I first saw TWOK because I would’ve been a touch too young to see at the theatres! Somehow several years later I’d find out about TOS reruns and since then, well..
You know you have TWOK on the brain when you’re cleaning the cat’s litter box and suddenly Khan’s pets (of course, not QUITE domesticated) come to mind..
;-)
#71 – Kirk wouldn’t have had to “pragmatically conclude to sacrifice an engineer” and then call that person to the intercom, and especially not “convince” them. He would only have had to say “Engineering, get warp drive back online NOW.” Engineering personnel should have done the rest as a matter of course. Self-sacrifice as one’s duty in that scenario, particularly in a military (or quasi-military) setting, should be assumed.
Even in Starfleet. Kirk said as much in “Court-Martial.”
I’m sorry, I meant #79
And I should add: refit Enterprise as seen in the first two movies is the best looking ship of them all. No bloody A, B, C, OR D!!
77 — I see what you’re saying about the characterizations, and I recognize that too. I think what I’m trying to say (and I recognize that this is my own subjective feeling about things) is that the characters in TMP feel like the same people in TOS, despite some changes in the last few years. Kirk is going nuts at a desk job, and Spock’s self-guilt about letting his logical standards slip after so many years with humans has led him to try to out-Vulcan the Vulcans, but those developments seem “in character,” and they get back to where they’d been before by the end of the movie, more or less. Heck, I’ve had even more awkward reunions with old friends than that. The contrast to me is that in TMP it feels like the same guys, but having moved on in their lives, whereas in the later movies they’re actually out of character. Your mileage may vary, of course.
#81 I still don’t buy that during Kirk’s era that ANYBODY in a position of command would say, “Jenkins, you’re up! Go into the radiation chamber and die for us NOW!” Nah, it just doesn’t ring true!
#85 — Why not? Seems perfectly logical and natural to me, now or in any era. If the warp drive isn’t fixed in 3 minutes, we all die. Not many options beyond having the engineers fix the warp drive at any cost.
That’s what command IS, ultimately.
81- I agree with you. And yet Kirk DIDN’t just ordered the warp drive back online. I think that’s offensive that kirk basically froze. He Froze! Not my Kirk! No sir! And you couldn’t be more right about Court Martial. That was an instance where kirk was prepared to push the button to kill a man. A FRIEND. Does anyone think the real kirk would have paused for a second to tell Jenkins to get in the radiation chamber? Give me a break.
Star Trek – The Wrath of Khan is a sea-faring adventure,
Star Trek – The Motion Picture is a space-faring adventure.
Kirk left the Mains getting back online to Scotty, hence Kirk’s line “Bless you Scotty” when the ensign reports that they are. Delegation of duty.
After Kirk finds out that Scotty actually didn’t do anything but try to keep everyone out of the sealed Radiation Room, Kirk went ballistic and chased him round the Moons of Nibia and round the Antaries Malstrom and round Perdition’s Flames before he gave him up.
I agree — Scotty dropped the ball here, not Kirk. Kirk did, in fact, say to Scotty “Scotty, we need warp speed in 3 minutes or we’re all dead.” And his “Bless you, Scotty” showed that he thought Scotty had followed through.
Somehow I managed to use the word “Scotty” 5 times in 3 sentences.
It has been 25 years since TWOK? Geez, I was 20 years old when the film was originally released. Absolute depression is about to set in, thank you. It’s amazing just how quickly time passes.
;-) Sometimes I’ll have conversations with my boyfriend during movies, kind of like the conversation going on here. He’ll point out things that should’ve been obvious. I’ll agree and follow-up with a most tounge-in-cheek response: “where’s the drama in that!?!”
Yes, I must confess: perhaps Scotty should’ve been saving his beloved Enterprise. I guess we’ll never really know what happened. All we know is that the energizers were bypassing like a Christmas tree, Scotty got the bumps he didn’t ask for, then there was the radiation, and finally Scotty collapsed in Dr. McCoy’s arms.
*sigh* where would we be without TWOK..
The movies should have kept the series-type uniforms and red bridge door and railing. The departure from the series color scheme is one of the big disappointments about the movies. They could have “modernized” things without giving up the basic look and, no, it would not have looked “cartoony.” They might as well have filmed the movies in black and white.
Those Wrath of Khan-type uniforms still make me gnash my teeth.
As for the movie itself, I agree with those who say the initial viewing of Wrath of Khan was a tremendous experience. I’m glad I don’t get caught up in overanalyzing story elements. The movie either works or it doesn’t for me. Khan worked. It worked better originally than it does now, but it still worked.
TO THOSE THAT THINK TMP IS BETTER THAN TWOK:
I think you did a little too much LDS back in the 60s
Anthony – how about a poll of favorite Wrath Of Khan moments?
#70: Redshirt:
I beg to differ.. DS9 is far, far more realistic in its depiction of 20th-21st Century Earth and the war with the Dominion than the original series’ parallel Earths where Rome/Nazis/Gangland Bosses were in charge. Real issues of social injustice/warfare/and relationships were addressed compellingly in DS9 by an outstanding cast and crew.
Yes, the recently issued directors cut of TMP is brilliant, but that wasn’t the cut that showed in the theatres. As much of a fan of some of the scenes of ST V as I am, I will readily acknowledge that film was flawed. TWOK is the top of the heap, as many people here have said. The best cut of it was shown on ABC some years ago with deleted scenes exploring the relationship between Scotty and his nephew.
#73….
Sorry to disillusion your memories…. but the tagline “Guess why they’re putting seatbelts in theaters this summer?” was from ST 5. The one for ST2 was “At the edge of the universe lies the beginning of vengence.”
To the nitpickers: “No human can tolerate the radiation that’s in there.” I took that to mean that no human could have lasted long enough inside the chamber to effect repairs. That’s why Spock took it upon himself to do so.
RE 84 Cranston…
I like the way you put that. It’s taken years for me to come to the conclusion that WOK (while I still love it) is not the be all end all Trek Movie everyone gushes about.
You’re sense of the character development from TMP makes good sense and rings true. The directors edition bore some of that out as well, by timing the moments with better cuts.
While I will never argue that WOK isn’t a more fun movie, TMP feels more classic Trek to me in a weird way. I was also not as big a fan of 6 as the rest of the world. To me the characters became more caricatures of themselves in the later movies.
My favorites are 1,2,3,4 & first contact. The rest not so much. 6 was off, it had elements of greatness and the right look and feel, but their were some really weak plot elements that lessened the impact for me.
Anyway it’s all fun. Doug L.
Wrath of Khan along with its sequel The Search For Spock are two of the best Trek films to date. Both films explored the characters dealing with being older, and their relationships with eachother. Each film had some great character moments. They jammed in everything that made the original series work.
#50 – While I won’t attempt to answer all your questions (after all, show me ANY movie without small plot holes and I’ll show you a unicorn…), I do think I can answer the one about finding a lifeless planet using what we know about astronomy and planetary bodies today.
First, we must take into account that they couldn’t pick just ANY lifeless planetoid. After all, after the Genesis effect was tested, they would want this planet to last, to be available for study, and to perhaps even colonize.
In order for the Genesis planet to be able to sustain humanoid life forms, it would have to conform to certain laws of planetary physics. For example, planets that could be Earth-like and sustain our life form need to fall within a very narrow band in orbit around their parent star. Too close, and the temperatures on the planet would bake everything to death. Too far, and your nice new “accelerated life forms” are popsickles in no time flat. For example, we have a number of lifeless space bodies right here in our own solar system in Mercury and Pluto. However, I think you’d agree that firing the Genesis torpedo at those planets would be a waste of resources. None of the plant life would be able to survive or grow!
Now that we’ve narrowed the search for acceptable planets to that narrow range, we also need to make sure the planet has a suitable mass. (Remember, Carol Marcus even states that the terraformed planet has an equal mass to the progenitor planet.) Planets too large would have oppresive gravity, making it impossible to stand or move. Planets too small would have insufficient gravity and would not be able to maintain the dense atmosphere of oxygen/nitrogen humanoids need to survive. (For example, modern astronomy theorizes that Mars once was quite Earth-like. However, it was too small to maintain an Earth-like atmosphere, which gradually evoporated into space leaving the much-less-dense Carbon Monoxide atmosphere it has now.)
So now that we’ve even further narrowed our search parameters, we now have to factor in the fact that the planet had to be COMPLETELY lifeless. In Carol Marcus’s own words, “There can’t be so much as a microbe, or the show’s off!” Since, in the mythos of Star Trek it seems that any world that is cable of supporting life generally does, one would have to believe that given the right position around a star and the proper mass, that some form of life would have sprouted on a planet. Sure, it may have been little more than primitive bacteria still evolving out of their primordial soup… but that alone would have invalidated a planet according to the search parameters.
So… given ALL those limitations, I could see why finding a proper planet would be a difficult task!
Hope that helped!!
101, all that work! When all they needed to do in the end is detonate it in the middle of nowhere and it would make its own planet AND a star just the right distance away.
#102 Mark,
And watch it fall apart
#93 Stankish
Things change, even in the “real” Trek Universe.
103 – but that blamed on protomatter, not on there being no planet there already.
There was a planet there… Regulus.
Regulus was re-formed as the Genesis planet, while the Mutara Nebula coalesced to form the star. Remember, they limped away from Regulus to the nebula on incredibly slow impulse power, and made it there in only a few minutes. If we had a ship today capable of travelling the speed of light, it would take 8 minutes to reach the sun… the Enterprise travelled from Regulus to the nebula in much less time, moving at speeds well under the speed of light. When the Genesis torpedo exploded within the Mutara nebula, Regulus would have been enveloped in the blast radius, and the Genesis effect would have gone into action.
Genesis, accelerated the “life-giving” process of anything the Genesis wave contacted. Since stars are formed natually over millions of years in stellar nebula, it only makes sense that star formation was rapidly increased by the effect of the explosion.
I believe there was a story written around this idea… and that the reason for the instability of the Genesis planet had nothing to do with the protomater (as Marcus had speculated), but was caused by the Genesis torpedo being forced to do too much, with too much, for its programming to handle.
I’m pretty sure that wasn’t what the writers had in mind, but if you say so.