Vegas Con Video: Shatner On Not Being In Movie & More September 3, 2007
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Conventions/Events/Attractions, Shatner , trackbackThe fine folks at ShatnerVision have put up five videos from William Shatner’s appearance at the recent Creation Las Vegas Star Trek Convention (reported here earlier). In the first Shatner jokes around about not being in the new Star Trek movie and in other videos (below) he recounts some funny stories including a recent ‘roadrage’ incident.
By the way…it was this appearance that got distorted by a New York Tabloid and turned into their ‘red faced angry Shatner’ BS.
check out Shatnervision for more videos of Bill in Vegas
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They need some PA monitor speakers at stage right and left for better audio on the cam corder stuff.
watching these videos reaffirms one truth in the world:
William Shatner is the Man!
I guess we won’t know the definitive answer until the bloody movie finally comes out…
What a total “he said, she said” scenario!
Vic
Maybe J.J. should show him different ways of putting him in the movie and he can pick for himself.
bad audio…He did His legacy piece “It was fun” in Generations .now it’s old Len’s turn.
I can’t speak for others here..but I for one am tired of hearing that Shatner will not be in the next Trek movie. Ok we get it already. Nimoy’s in..you’re not. Next story please!
Mike :o
Shatner seems to be haveing a great time NOT being in the film.
- W -
* Keep it up Bill, your far more entertaining then Britney & Paris *
Shatner never disappoints. Class. :-)
I don’t think they need him in the movie anyway. The whole thing seems to be about getting rid of Kirk. i’m beginning to believe there won’t be a Captain kirk in the movie at all; and if they save the Kirk family, he might not be the same TOS character in the new universe. (Like John Connor in the alternate T2 ending) He’s doing great without them and he might be glad he isn’t part of it .
If the new plot rumors are true why not have Shatner play Kirk’s father? Were the Romulans going back in time to kill Kirk or his Kirk’s father? I also read that Chud.com 100% confirmed the latest plot rumor. Is Chud,com a reliable movie news source? I guess it wont be totally confirmed until Anthony backs it up it.
I keep hearing this rumor that Shatner won’t be in the movie. Any truth to this? I’ll bet that when word get’s out, Trek fans won’t even notice.
Can we get a transcript of that please?
For my money, there still seems to be a lot of energy put forth about “not” being in the movie.
Don’t rule out a final scene cameo.
Shatner is definitely the man, #2! We love him, and this has just convinced me that I’m in love with him. ^_^
If Shatner isn’t in Star Trek XI…something will feel as though it’s missing. It’s like watching a TOS episode without Kirk. >_> Ugh. We want Shatner!
This message goes directly to the owner and operator of the site: Not that he’ll care or listen…but
This is such a poor subject and posting. I question why you bothered? Ok…..Mr. Shatner won’t be
in the new film – so until you actually have some concrete news stating otherwise they I’d just soon
not hear it. So….he won’t be in the film – he has more $$ then most of us will ever have so whats the point of telling us that he won’t be in this film? Talk about beating a dead horse. Move on to something worthwhile already – something good – we all seen good material here before…lets see more!
What a collosal mistake if he is not in the movie. It’s terrible. But at the same time, when was this taped?
If Abrams has an ounce of brains, he’ll get Shatner.
Is Shatner still joking around or his he genuinely starting to act like an ass over this situation now?
Either way it’s a bit embarrasing watching him getting upset over this and going on about being an Emmy winner. Sort it out shat, you finally became cool, don’t ruin it now.
What’s truly embarassing is that he isn’t in the film at this time. He has a right to get upset. I’m still hoping Abrams was doing more than paying lip service given the negative reaction to Shatner’s absence from the film.
It’s not embarrassing that he’s not in the film at all. Kirk died in VII, he’s out. There’s no point in complicating the plot by having him in the film. I’d hate to think that JJ had to re-write and re-structure a plot to include an old Kirk just to please Shatner.
With all the talk of Mr Shatner, and web sites chatting about him not being in the movie,
I just wanted to say,,
Is throw your mind back to 1984,,
“The Search for Spock” was comming out,, and all the talk was if Nimoy was going to be in the movie playing Spock,,after all,,,he was,,,,
dead Jim !.
It was the biggest Sci Fi secret to keep under raps until the movie came out,and even then,, to keep people in their seats,, Nimoy was not listed in the opening credits of ST 3 as an actor to keep people guessing until the very last minute.
(However he is listed as an actor at the end of the movie)
Maybe this is another big secret build up,,,
lets keep in mind the story of :
Producer: Paramount Trying To Convince Shatner?
with the date of Aug 14th 2007
Re this link if u want a quick read,,,
http://trekmovie.com/2007/08/14/producer-paramount-trying-to-convince-shatner/
also,, lets not forget,, Kirk said he would know when his time was up,,and that he would,,”Die alone”
( he wasnt )
and also,, Kirk always said,, He turns death,,into a fighting chance to live
and the famous quote from Kirk in ST Gen,,right before he gets sucked into the nexus,,
“Every Starship needs its Captain”
and how many times have you heard at ST Cons, someone saying,, “Anything is possable”
All Im saying is,, anything can happen,, its not over until the fat lady sings,,or in Trek terms,, its not over yet until the red shirt gets it!
:)
“not over until the fat lady sings”
I hate to tell you this, but the fat lady is gargling and getting ready for her big finale…..
Actually, Kirk’s death means absolutely nothing. It’s sci-fi. There are a million ways the character can be written into the film, all plausible. Death need not be the end.
Too many people want to see this happen for such a long time. It’s a black mark on the franchise, and JJ has a shot to redeem it. He SAID he wanted Shatner in the film.
It would be nice to get an update from HIM.
Gotta love that when Shatner finishes talking about road rage, the next video offered is “Man pulls train with teeth.” I have no idea why, but that’s funny.
I don’t know whether Shat’s in the movie or not. I’m tempted to wait until someone else sees it, just so I don’t spend 2+ hours looking for him if he isn’t there.
Love the Shat. Just don’t think he’ll always be Kirk in the movies. He’ll always be Kirk to me, just like Connery will always be Bond. But, we as an audience also move on…
Brother Duane,,, usually agree with you but what does how much money someone has have anything to do with anything. Don’t be a Commie!!!
How much money Shatner has, Nimoy has, Anthony has, Duane has, The Lord Garth has or Anthony has has nothing to do with their love of what they do. Be happy for those who have money, more often than not they have busted their asses to aquire it. Shatner in particular has paid his dues and may have made more money for Paramount Pictures than any other actor. As far as I’m concerned bringing up someone’s income for no reason is like bringing up someone’s race or religion for no reason.
William Shatner certainly talks a lot, but doesn’t say much. For all the good memories he created in and for the Star Trek franchise, I think I’ve had about enough of his ranting and whining.
I hope the people in charge of producing Star Trek 2008 aren’t swayed by his lobbying the public. The more I see clips like this, the more it makes me sad to see Mr. Shatner. All indications are this is going to be a great movie. Mr. Shatner knows this and wants in. The producers I believe don’t want him in, and are trying to be as careful as possible to not cause waves in Trekdom.
Mr. Nimoy certainly didn’t act like this when he wasn’t in a Star Trek: Generations. As far as I see it, this speaks volumes of their character.
479 dtST
#21 StillKirok
“Actually, Kirk’s death means absolutely nothing. It’s sci-fi. There are a million ways the character can be written into the film, all plausible. Death need not be the end”
As I mentioned in a previous thread, this very attitude reduces death to a subplot. Death holds absolutley no purpose when you keep bringing characters back from the dead.
I can appreciate the desire of Kirk fans to bring the character back. But not at the real cost of future plots. November 18 1994, Kirk died when Generations was released. If Kirk must be brought back, at least it should not be back to life.
It’s hardly “embarrassing” for him to go onstage at a huge Star Trek convention and talk about not being in the movie. That’s what people paid their good $ and stood in line to see him for – to know what’s the latest with him and the franchise. What was he supposed to do when asked the question? Answer, “No. Next question…”? I don’t think so! This is SHATNER, baby! He’s a passionate man, not some shrinking violet. His intense charisma and the fact that he portrayed the most popular character in the history of Star Trek go hand in hand.
If he isn’t in the movie, then his current success is some *small* consolation to longtime fans of his such as me. It’s awesome to see him doing so well; out of all the Trek actors from any series, he’s very likely the one who LEAST needs this particular paycheck. He now has fame, awards, and financial success that I’m sure many of his fellow Trek actors can only dream about. But the man clearly wants in one more time. And if he isn’t in, it will be the first time in the franchise’s long and storied history that either the original Kirk or Spock wanted to participate, and were not allowed to. That sucks; we don’t need that precedent to be set! Let Shatner go out on top in what is looking to be a worthy film, just like Nimoy.
I’ll honestly be disappointed in Abrams if it isn’t so. But he and the writers have said the are trying hard to get Shatner in there, so for now I’ll have to take them at their word.
#24 pizza hotdog … “Mr. Nimoy certainly didn’t act like this when he wasn’t in a Star Trek: Generations. As far as I see it, this speaks volumes of their character.”
That’s because Nimoy was offered a chance to participate, and did not want to. The current situation with Shatner is the reverse of that. So it really speaks nothing of their “character”.
#25–Killing Kirk was stupid, and if Kirk’s death has to be reduced to a subplot, so what? His death meant nothing anyway. The number of people happy over a Kirk return will far outweigh the number of people who are upset.
Kirk’s death was a mistake that haunts the franchise to this day. Knowing the character has no future really ruins any future and past use of the character. It’s a severe waste.
Bringing the character back will only strengthen the Kirk/Spock friendship–which is one of the most important pieces of the Trek puzzle.
Spock: You came back for me.
Kirk: You would have done the same for me.
Kirk can be saved. It happened in the books.
We don’t need a consolation prize. We need Shatner as Kirk. One final time, where the two characters ride off into the sunset, onto the next great adventure.
THAT is a movie.
THAT is Star Trek.
Trekkies don’t “need” anything, any more than a three-year-old “needs” an ice cream cone.
#19:”It was the biggest Sci Fi secret to keep under raps until the movie came out,and even then,, ”
Actually, people who were following the making of the thing closely understood that Nimoy would be in it as Spock. It was effectively a “big secret” pretty much only on the press/publicity level.
This movie will be just fine and do just fine without Shatner. I’m sure that if he becomes reasonable they’ll find a place in there for him somewhere.
29. Dennis Bailey … “I’m sure that if he becomes reasonable they’ll find a place in there for him somewhere.”
And how do you know he isn’t being reasonable?? Care to share?
Anybody that uses the excuse ‘it’s sci-fi’ as a reason for bringing kirk back deserves to be shot. Lets have no more talk of it.
People who think this movie will do fine with or without Shatner are probably the same that think that Enterprise and Trek X did well.
Shatner is a money maker, and he’s still one of the top actors aroudn.
And #31, it’s sci-fi. The very nature of it allows for death to not be the end. Anyone with an imagination can think of a solid way to bring the character back.
And since no one here other than maybe Orci knows a thing about the negotiation, it’s pretty foolish to act as if you know whether Shatner is being reasonable. No one knows.
What I’m about to say may seen off-topic at first, but please bear with me: This past Saturday, I finally went and saw Transformers. One of my biggest reasons for seeing it was to get a gauge on the writing style of Kurtzman and Orci. That said, it was a good movie; not great, but good. I think we may get a good Star Trek movie out of these guys, but I’m not sure about a great movie. If Shatner can be brought in and used effectively, which in turn could make a good movie better, then I say get him on board. If they can’t think of a way to insert him, or if his presence doesn’t help the movie, then leave him out. I’m trying to remain open-minded to either possibility.
I would love to know how many blog threads have decayed into this tangent?
Paramount are you paying attention?
#14
Anthony is sharing some funny videos of William Shatner. How is that a ‘poor’ choice for posting? It’s a Star Trek website. If you don’t care for it, just skip it. He’s not holding a gun to your head.
# 23 The Mighty Lord: Yeah….I can see what you’re saying except Mr. Shatner has no reason to piss and moan about his status or lack of in this current film. IF he can or wants to be in it then fine but to whine and carry out like a little schoolgirl sitting in the dark without a date before her first big dance. Isn’t his plate full enough as it is?
IF anyone else but you responded I would have said Ok and left it at that but you always been the true Master of what is cool and fine here in this forum. Time to move on already
What happened to the clip if Nimoy at the LV convention?
shatner is best lounge act in vegas!
Shatner is great at conventions. I saw him at a convention sometime around Generations. He told a funny story about being called back to re-shoot the ending and how they all hated being out there and it was hot as hell, etc….and then he had to go back and do it all over again…
As for being in the new film, I know things look a little bleak right now, but if I was going to bet, I’d bet Shatner will be in it. It’s just a hunch.
37 It dissapeared for some reason.
Brother Duane.. I hear you brother but pissing and moaning is what Trekkers do best and how much someone makes should have no bearing on the arguement as to whether he is in the film or not. Besides that Shatner is one of the most generous Actors in hollywood with respect to both time and money towards charitable organizations that really make a difference. If I were in his shoes I’d be campaigning to be in the film, all of us would. Now enough of this money talk I have to go treat the leather seats in my new Mercedes ML350.
#34 – If Paramount is paying attention, I’m sure they’re thinking, “Why are we sinking so much money into a production for these bunch of drooling lunatics? Have Legal contact Mr. Shatner about acquiring a restraining order against these crazies.”
Frankly, all of this masturbating at the altar of the Church of Shatner is an embarrassment to Trek fandom, and makes me ashamed to call myself a part of it.
Funny Stuff. Don’t know what is more entertaining, Shatner, on stage “griping” about not being in the movie, or posts like #36 who think he is really upset!
I hope they sneak him as an older Kirk at the very end, effectively erasing Generations from the timeline.
That would be the cherry on top what is, hopefully, an already delicous Christmas day sundae.
I actually think we should look towards the number crunchers at Paramount for pushing the idea of Nimoy being in the film—it makes sense. He (aside from Kirk) is the most popular character and what better way to kick off a reboot then with a time travel (or) flashback storyline.
Besides….Nimoy still looks great.
Shatner not only looks too old but his character died a few films ago.
I personally would like NO old cast members- you wanna start fresh then BOLDLY GO and take the risk. They never have forked over hundreds of millions for a TREK film anyway and if anything they know they will get the intial investment back (one final time?) and if it actually makes 150 million then they have at least 3 more films they can squeeze out of the franchise. Win-win for all.
I look forward to it in any case and leave Shatner alone already. He should also have the grace and class to put it to rest and allow Nimoy his final bow.
#30 Shatner fan,
StillKirok in 32 is correct… no one knows. Maybe it’s not enough $$ for Shatner, or high enough billing. Maybe it’s JJ’s production team being hard-asses and saying “no more resurrections”. No one knows. Some of the assumptions in here guess that JJ and co is at fault. It’s highly unfair to either side to assume they are the cause of a hold-up in negotiations, if any are still going on.
Someone mentioned “If Abrams has an ounce of brains, he’ll get Shatner.”
Oh come on…. let’s be mature.
=================================
I can see part of what Duane said. I too am tired of the Shatner in or out BS. I know there are opinions both ways. I wish it was done, so we can move on and not see this subject constantly appear in threads not devoted to it. (Yes, I understand this IS a topic on this thread.)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
X
Shatner fans are often accused of hijcaking threads, making threats, staging boycotts, being crazy and embarrassing – everything short of terrorism. And yet, we have classy posts like #31 Ty Webb, saying that people should be shot, and nobody blinks an eye. Kudos to StillKirok for taking the high road and not lowering himself to the sub-moronic level of the original post!
Isn’t this kind of old news?
I don’t think this really means anything one way or the other.
45. Xai “no one knows. Maybe it’s not enough $$ for Shatner, or high enough billing.”
Exxxactly. No one knows. Which is why I called out Mr. Bailey on his quite definitive sounding statement: “I’m sure that if he becomes reasonable they’ll find a place in there for him somewhere.”
He sure sounds like he has some inside knowledge there. I don’t, but my assumption is that it’s a writing/plot issue. We shall see.
#32: “People who think this movie will do fine with or without Shatner are probably the same that think that Enterprise and Trek X did well.
Shatner is a money maker, and he’s still one of the top actors aroudn [sic].”
Yeah, that’s why his phone’s ringing off the hook with big movie offers – he’s “one of the top actors around.”
God knows, we can all recite the complete list of multiple EMMY winners through the years, because popularity for a few years in a TV series makes someone “one of the top actors around.”
I’m sorry that you feel badly that you’re not going to get what you want – but this continual angry fantasizing isn’t getting you any closer to it. :)
Got an answer for us yet, Dennis?
can we stop with the personal attacks on all sides please
as for why i put up the article…short answer…because I felt like it. Not every article is breaking news….sometimes people just might enjoy watching shat from a con…people pay big bucks to see that live. If there is another site out there that was breaking bigger trek news today that we havent covered please point me to it
Bigger Trek News? Perhaps not….but this site has much less of what you’d call personal attacks on all sides = less garbage. Consider going here. http://www.trektoday.com
Why would anyone bother to pay $$ to see him where one can just access the Internet?
I use to hang out at “Trek Today,” but I much prefer the intellectual discourse, witty banter, and occasional guest stars here…
C’mon this is the ONLY Trek site of worth!!
Oh, yeah. Shat.
My guess is the script is already locked and he’s out. Period.
52. Duane Boda “Why would anyone bother to pay $$ to see him where one can just access the Internet?”
This is just wild speculation on my part, but I think the answer lies in that arcane subject known as “fandom”! Being a fan of something. Enjoying the live experience. Wanting to have fun. Wow, that was a tough one. Thanks for the challenge.
p.s. I’ll pass. Trektoday is alright, but this site is quicker on the news.
Was the Nimoy video from Vegas removed from this site because it was recorded on a cellphone without permission from the convention?
GRRRRRRR!!! Trekkers MAD!!!!! Trekkers SMASH!!!!!!! Stupid Banner thinks he is smarter than Trekkers but Trekkers Crush puny Banner!!!!!!
Trekkers SMASH puny posters!!!!!!!! Madder Trekkers get, STRONGER Trekkers get!!!!! GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!
Well, Lord Garth, I MARVEL at your extensive vocabulary!! ‘Nuff said!
#52 TrekToday seems to be picking its stuff up from on here!
I would like to once again open my post with my usual bow to Shatner_Fan_2000 and StillKirok.
What is really striking about the posts trying to undermine Kirk’s/Shatner’s importance to Star Trek is that their only “argument” is their obvious dislike of the person of Shatner himself and that in the course of the posts a certain aggression and, one might assume, even fear becomes obvious. I can see no other reason for people to post on a Star Trek site, dealing with a new Star Trek movie, sharing the love for the same universe with other Star Trek fans, and at the same time trying hard to drag one character/one actor who embodies the essence of Star Trek through the mud.
Kirk/Shatner being indispensable is not a question of like or dislike, it is a fact you just have to accept and respect when dealing with Star Trek in general and TOS in particular. But this is maybe what you are afraid of.
if CHUD plot revelation will be true, probably jj Abrahams have find the way to rise kirk for trek XII, cause if in this one Spock come back to save kirk family and so he change a little bit the future, perhaps the old kirk survive in the new timeline born from the new movie.
so KIRK will be in the next one, the second movie of this reboot!!!!!
59–
Iowagirl, what are you on? You’re certainly entitled to your own opinion as to whether Shatner should be in the new movie, but to denigrate everyone who disagrees with you and say that they all just hate Shatner is just silly demagoguery.
As is saying Shatner’s Kirk being indispensable to Trek is a “fact”. The facts are, there has been successful Star Trek without Shatner in the past. So why couldn’t there be more successful Trek without him in the future?
Shatner’s indispensability is something that’s particular to you and some other fans here. Don’t act like it’s some universal truth.
And as far as being afrad…you’re the one acting like the fearful person here! Demagoguery is always the refuge of those who feel like they’re about to lose it all.
It is true that Star Trek has been without Shatner in the past, and since they killed off Kirk, Star Trek has moved in one direction–down.
#49–given that Shatner is currently a TV actor, an Emmy winner, and a current nominee, his phone doesn’t have to ring off the hook. He’s working steadily.
Few actors in history have lasted as long as he has, and remained as successful as he IS.
You seem to have a personal vendetta against Shatner. I don’t know why, but it’s silly. You talk about him like you are a part of the negotiations.
Somehow I doubt that’s true.
The man IS one of the top actors around, and no one has done more for Star Trek than he has.
Leonard Nimoy is on record as saying that the movie would be better with Shatner. In other words, Nimoy has a grasp of the obvious.
If Shatner isn’t in the movie, the movie will suffer. Grosses will suffer. Too many people want to see Shatner for him to not matter. Sorry if that bothers you, but it’s the way it is.
Orbitalic…that revised, improved ‘intro.’ is definately coming soon…complete with links…
#27Shatner_Fan_2000 – September 3, 2007
“#24 pizza hotdog … “Mr. Nimoy certainly didn’t act like this when he wasn’t in a Star Trek: Generations. As far as I see it, this speaks volumes of their character.”
That’s because Nimoy was offered a chance to participate, and did not want to. The current situation with Shatner is the reverse of that. So it really speaks nothing of their “character”.
True.
Furthermore, it is just clear understanding of human nature to see why Shatner wants to participate, and why he complains. If any of the anti-Shatner group ever felt separated from something they were so connected to and/or helped develop, perhaps they would “get” it, & sympathize with the man instead of finding new ways to say (paraphrasing) “he does not count / is worthless to the franchise.”
# 61- My, that was a bit defensive.
Methinks there just might be a smidgen of truth in Iowagirl’s post. A lot of people really just don’t like Shatner, for whatever reason, and the fact that he is so popular really gets under their skin. Reading these posts, it’s not too difficult to see who they are.
But, Shatnerbashers are welcomed to their opinions as well and their negativity certainly doesn’t diminish the Shat’s popularity one bit, nor does it negate the fact that he would be an asset to the film..
Admittedly, this place wouldn’t be half as much fun to come to if they weren’t constantly at odds with the BBk’ers.
Personally, I think bringing Shat back at the end of would be great. Nimoy could show up in a scene at the end, that had already been established as post- Generations, and Shatner could smile and say something along the lines of “What took you so long?” Something like that would end the the movie with a fun upbeat tone that leaves you (at least SOME of you lol) smiling when you leave the theater.
By the way Anthony…an interesting poll or two here would be something along the lines of…
‘ What kind of TOS-era Movie storyline would you like to see?’
… Romulan terrorism and war
… Romulans time-travelling to kill Kirk’s dad
… Exploration and discovering new unknown adversaries
… Anything as long as Kirk’s ‘death’ is undone
… Alternate ‘timeline’ where anything goes
… None of the above
‘ What kind of TOS-era settings would you like to see?’
… Total reimagining with absolutely everything is redesigned
… Mostly reimagined but with a couple of things at least familiar
… Keep most of the TOS imagery but change some of it too
… Keep all of the TOS imagery but update with better materials
64. star trackie – “Methinks there just might be a smidgen of truth in Iowagirl’s post. A lot of people really just don’t like Shatner, for whatever reason, and the fact that he is so popular really gets under their skin.”
You’re right. In no time at all, Shatner was called “embarrassing” for discussing a topic that fans at a convention eagerly wanted to hear about, “unreasonable” with regards to his demands for the new film (??), and somone had stated that a fellow Kirk/Shatner fan should be shot. It’s the anti-Shatnerites who always seem to bring the nastiness, no doubt. All I’m doing is sticking up for my favorite actor/character. Which is easy, since as Iowagirl pointed out, most of the “arguments” against him are about as weak and unstable as the Klingon moon Praxis! :)
Still, I don’t pretend to understand why people feel the need to bash. You don’t see me going into any ‘TNG is 20′ threads and saying, ‘How pathetic! You should be shot!’ What’s the point of behavior like that?
“But, Shatnerbashers are welcomed to their opinions as well and their negativity certainly doesn’t diminish the Shat’s popularity one bit, nor does it negate the fact that he would be an asset to the film.”
Agreed.
#61
You just don’t read my posts carefully enough.
1. I did not denigrate any person but doubted the honesty of their arguments as I found them related to only the person (in a very depreciating and sometimes demagogic manner) and not to the character/the subject. (By the way, the noun is “demagogy”…).
2. As I clearly pointed out, I am talking about “TOS in particular” – and as we’re obviously dealing with a new movie that goes back to the TOS timeline we will have to face the fact that this means dealing with Kirk & Co.; whether you like it or not.
Of course, there has been successful Star Trek without Shatner in the past (although recent Next Generation movies and Star Trek Enterprise weren’t thoroughly successful – otherwise they would have made a re-casted Next Generation movie or an Enterprise movie …), but surely there has been no successful TOS without Kirk/Shatner. Every series has its core characters and by them adds to the essence of Star Trek, and for TOS, well, I don’t have to finish this sentence for the umpteenth time. Regarding facts, this is the context I am talking about. You are certainly entitled to ignore these facts, or, if you don’t like the word, obviousnesses.
I’m not fearful for nobody can threaten a legend created within a period of 40 years. And the only thing I am about to lose is my patience.
It’s not a matter of whether or not “Kirk/Shatner is important/unimportant to ‘Star Trek’.”
It’s a matter of how important he is to this movie.
The answer, clearly, is: not very.
The producers have said that Nimoy’s participation was crucial to making the film. As rumors of plot drift out, we’re beginning to see why.
The producers have said that while they want to have him participate, it’s a challenge to find something meaningful for Shatner in this particular film. That’s entirely reasonable, given the above-referenced rumors and the fact that most of it seems to revolve around a much younger cast of characters.
Moreover, there’s the question of money. The studio may simply be unwilling to sign off on more than “X” dollars in order to secure Shatner’s participation. An entirely different group of people runs Paramount than the folks who were in charge during the previous Trek films – and it hasn’t been an evolutionary change, but a housecleaning.
Bottom line is that if a reasonable accomodation can be made between Shatner and the studio he’ll probably appear in it somewhere and everyone will be happy. If that doesn’t happen, then some people will be disappointed and most moviegoers will be indifferent as long as the film is good.
Look I love Shatner. But to you really want to see him playing kirk in this new film? He looks like most peoples Granny now.
#68 – Iowagirl
I find your posts to be quite well written, but I feel compelled to write to defend a group of anit-”Kirk-alive-post-Generations” moderates in here.
There are many of us who loves Shatner’s work as Kirk, and who feel that he embodies the character, and brings true heart to Trek. While I’ll never think that he’s one of the “top actors around”, I’ll always be in awe of his portrayal of Kirk.
However, we also realize that re-working a script to satisfy the cravings of some rabid fans could act to detriment of the overall movie. Many of us don’t believe the “wink and a nudge return from death” proposal that many here profess will work like a charm. We want solid writing, great acting, and exciting direction, and after some disappointing Trek endeavours, we want to settle for no less.
Does that mean Shatner can’t be in it? Absolutely not. However, none of the arm-chair script-writers in here have never made a big-budger feature film that is intended to revive a franchise. If they ever gain that level of pedigree, I’ll listen more carefully to their rants. Until then, I’ll put more trust in the professionals. If they decide that bringing him back doesn’t weaken the script, then I’m all for it.
Besides which, one of your major points is slightly off the mark. True, this film focuses on TOS… and you’ll get your wish. Kirk will be a major focal point of the film, and it’s a guarantee that Kirk that is the heart and soul of TOS will be front and center on your screen. It just won’t be played by William Shatner. If, as you say, Kirk is indespensible to Trek, then people here had better get used to the idea of a new actor playing the part, or else Trek will be forever dead in the next 10 or 15 years.
#71–yes, we really want to see him playing Kirk in the new film. And as the actor ages, so does the character. Ageism is hardly something you would find in the Star Trek universe.
As for Shatner’s importance to the movie, given the highly negative reaction to his lack of involvement, he is VERY important to the movie. They can DO a movie without him, but it will not do as well. The man has a big following, and puts butts in the seats. Ignoring that will not change that.
Saying it’s a challenge to find something meaningful for Shatner is a cop-out. It’s simply a matter of writing the scenes. Nimoy, who actually HAS a track record in judging Star Trek, is on record as having said that the movie would be better with Shatner’s presence.
As for the question of money–since no one other than Orci could possibly be involved in the discussion of money, no one is in a position to talk with any level of expertise. We don’t know what Shatner’s financial demands are so talking as if we do is just ridiculous.
The true bottom line is that Shatner will increase the sales and the nostalgia factor. Not including him is a mistake–one that has been repeatedly made since 1994, and Trek has suffered.
#72 – StillKirok
1. No one suggested ageism. I merely point out that if no one can get past another actor playing Kirk, then Kirk dies when Shatner dies. That’s not ageism, it’s logic.
2. I’ve previously asked you to quantify remarks like this. Set your estimate for the “successful” box office take for the international gross of the film. If the film exceeds it, and Shatner is not in the film, will you concede your point? Conversely, if Shatner is in the film, and the film fails to achieve this amount, will you concede that not everyone shares your view of the “facts”?
3. As I stated, when you have the pedigree, I’ll listen more closely to your “facts”. Until then, your opinion is just that… one persons opinion. No better or no worse than mine.
71. John N … A well-written and balanced rebuttal. I appreciate you having the intelligence to do more than just take a lame cheap shot. But I think you are missing one important point.
“If, as you say, Kirk is indespensible to Trek, then people here had better get used to the idea of a new actor playing the part”
Here’s where a lot of people are mistaken. Just because I and many others want Shatner in the film, it doesn’t means we are also against a recast! I don’t presume to speak for anyone but myself, but I think we’re all smart enough to realize that Shatner is mortal and can’t play Kirk forever. In fact, even waiting a few years for movie #12 seems unlikely – which is why it would be so nice if Abrams and co. struck now, while the phaser is HOT, so to speak, and incorporated Bill into the film. The fact that Shatner – entirely independent of Star Trek, mind you – is arguably in the greatest phase of his career, and the fact that TPTB at Paramount have finally shown some smarts and decided to return to the most popular era of Star Trek, the TOS era, seems like a very fortuitous aligning of events. Put 1 + 1 together and you get: “William Shatner returns as James T. Kirk”. A “no brainer” as StillKirok often says.
I’m not even asking that Shatner carry the film; I know that the older versions aren’t going to be the focus. My only wish is that he be allowed to contribute in some way, just like his old partner Leonard. And I still think it will happen.
I think we’re all ready and eagerly awaiting our new Kirk. I know I am. I want to like the guy, whoever he may be.
#72 StillKirok
Alot of fans want to see Shatner. A lot don’t or don’t care as long as the movie is good. I for one would like to see this resolved. I think if jj really wants him he will be in it. If Shatner really wants to be in it he will. Money and story issues could be overcome(if these are the issues). I am sure jj is smart enough not to ruin a good story. He would not try to fit him in if he knew it would ruin everthing. He knows it would be better. Just do it! Bill certainly is not going broke. If it is money then just do it!
#74 – Shatner_Fan_2000
I appreciate your response, and enjoy the friendly banter when I can get it. :)
I’ll be honest with you… in my wishes of wishes, I’d like to see Shatner back as Kirk… and yes, even alive post-Generations. I just wish that the other side of the debate would likewise concede that it’s not a given that it will make the film a) better, or b) more profitable.
The reality is, writing an intelligent, emotional, rewarding movie isn’t as easy as it seems to some people. If these script-writers don’t put Shatner in as Kirk, it’s not likely because they hate the actor, or want to piss-off the fan base, but rather because they couldn’t find a way to make it work in a believable way to the “average movie-goer”. And I say “average movie-goer” because I know that some of the posters in here would accept just about ANY explaination to have him back, regardless of whether it benfits the larger context of the film.
Anyway… thanks for the response… it’s appreciated. :)
P.S. I hope I like the new actor too… :)
#72
think if jj really wants him he will be in it. If Shatner really wants to be in it he will.”
While this is true, I don’t think it’s any mystery as to whether or not JJ wants Shatner in this film. Why even bother to talk to Leonard AND Bill in the beginning of all this if there wasn’t some desire and chance for their involvement.
And we’re all kidding ourselves if we think that the writers don’t have an idea of how to do it. Hell it was probably already written and thought out before they even approached Nimoy and Shatner….just in case they said “yes”. By the same token, I’m sure there was a contingency in place should both actors have said “no thanks”. These kinds of situations are thought out well in advance.
So for me, the real question is why did Shat say no? It could very well be the money, The fact that everyone in the production states they still want to work Shatner in translates, to me anyway, that they want him in if they can negotiate the price. If not, I think a story is already in place that eliminates his involvement.
Now, had Nimoy said no….that would’ve been a much trickier scenario, but there is no way the writers knew he would say yes, so I would think a script or storyline, eliminating NImoy’s role exists as well, Fortunately they won’t have to play that card.
The “Shatner is in” version is a little more up in the air, but I’d bet the rent it’s there. It’s too close to the prouction kicking off for them to have to brainstorm and rewrite at the last minute. The devil is in the details.
#71- John N: “However, none of the arm-chair script-writers in here have never made a big-budger feature film that is intended to revive a franchise. If they ever gain that level of pedigree, I’ll listen more carefully to their rants. Until then, I’ll put more trust in the professionals”
The problem with this kind of thinkng is that being a so-called professionals does not mean they know what is best, otherwise, Voyager, Enterprise and most of the TNG movies would have soared strong, enough to keep the franchise alive. Obviously, the PTB–professionals–did not know what they were doing, & the franchise died a painful death….however, unlike Abrams, et al, the former “keepers” had well over a decade of experience with Trek material at the time!
Considering that, I would not be so ready to assume the untested Abrams and associates know what they are doing–particularly in the possibility of one-half the one of the most important duos in popular fiction history (so integral to any plot dealing with their era) being left on the mental equivalent of the cutting room floor.
Does that sound wise to you?
#71
Don’t get me wrong – I, too, want a young, hot Kirk in this new, hot movie. It did not escape me that we need some fresh blood to tell us a credible story of the days before the five-year-mission. But I am also saying that we mustn’t disrespect the decades that have levelled the way to this new era. If it hadn’t been for Shatner, for his portrayal of Kirk, there would be no new movie. So, all I’m asking for is solid writing, great acting, exciting direction – a story which thrills not only our brains but also our hearts and souls by spanning an arc and giving us the unique possibility of seeing “two worlds” unite.
#72
You’re absolutely right – the fact that we keep discussing this “controversy” alone shows how important this topic is…
shatner is an absolute legend, he is very funny and whitty and i am sad that he may not be in the movie. I cannot think of anyone else who deserves to be in the movie more than him, he has devoted his acting career, pretty much, to Star Trek and because of this he owes his fame and whole lifestyle to the franchise. I can strongly relate to his desire to be in the film, he has such a personal bond with the franchise that its kinda like he’s being left out or abandoned, forgotten. It would be like a group of our friends having one big party that they have had annually for the last 40 years and suddenly we are mpt welcome anymore, there is no room for us. THAT SUCKS!
I’m sorry for going on and on about the shat but I feel that he has given us fans so much (except trek V- that was a real low point, we’ll forget about that one) and i do not believe that money is his motivation at all (anymore) I think its that feeling of belonging that he desires.
Anyway… saying all of that i do however believe that the shat is having abit of a laugh and joke with us and is actually in the movie and JJ is just telling him to keep it secret, after all what is the one thing thats going to keep people talking about trek?? the controversy and rumour… shatner will he/ wont he be in the movie is all talk that generates huge publicity for the film and unites peoples feeling and their curiosity. here are my reasons why Shatner is/ will be in the movie:
1) JJ has said that they are looking for a way to get him in there
2) Nimoy has said that the film would be better with the Shat
3) The producers are “trying to convince shatner” (look at earlier posts)
4) That banter with nimoy about him”waiting for a call” – this was a very sketchy conversation that maybe indicated that the shat is more involved then we think
5) His relentless whining- if he was NOT in the film FULLSTOP then i doubt he would keep whining about it
and finally 6) Shatner is a JOKER with a wicked sense of humour and a stunt like lying that he has any involvement in the film would appeal to him.
oh just thought of another one… lol probably the most important reason 7)
THE MAJORITY OF FANS WANT HIM… only a brainless moron or the french would be so stupid to keep the fans favourite out of the film!!
#78
i agree. there is much posturing going on. just do it already!!
#79 – COMPASSIONATE GOD
Agreed… we should never blindly follow the powers-that-be. Despite their position, they are human and prone to falter. In fact, erred the worst of all when he agreed to let Kirk die. Let’s not forget, it was this decision that has left us in this controversy. We can blame Brannon and Braga all we want, but if Shatner had not agreed to be in the film, this discussion would likely not be happening.
All in all, I trust Abrams & Co. more than most of the posters in here. After all… I’ve seen Lost and Mission Impossible 3. I’ve yet to see any of the work produced by the arm-chair film makers in this forum.
#80 – Iowagirl
If they can deliver on point #1, I’m right behind ya.
#81 – Jay
Can we hold off on bashing other cultures to support your opinion? we’re discussing a movie…not Freedom Fries.
“So, all I’m asking for is solid writing, great acting, exciting direction – a story which thrills not only our brains but also our hearts and souls…”
Extremely well put, Iowagirl. I am also hoping they inject a “sense of wonder” to the film here and there (think turquoise colored singing leaves).
#84 – Jim Loftus
Or green and purple goats… ;)
Re 68:
“1. I did not denigrate any person but doubted the honesty of their arguments as I found them related to only the person (in a very depreciating and sometimes demagogic manner) and not to the character/the subject. (By the way, the noun is “demagogy”…).”
“Demagoguery” is also the noun form, Iowagirl. Pick up a dictionary once in a while!
And again, you have acted in an irresponsible fashion. I didn’t accuse you of denigrating any _one_ person. I accused you of maligning an entire group of people who don’t happen to agree with the BBKers. Which you clearly did, by lambasting them all as carrying some sort of irrational, aggressive grudge against Shatner, as opposed to listening to any of their more well-reasoned arguments here. I stated nothing more or less than the truth.
” but surely there has been no successful TOS without Kirk/Shatner. Every series has its core characters and by them adds to the essence of Star Trek, and for TOS, well, ”
Well, nobody has tried making TOS without Shatner before, have they? Does that prove it can’t be done? Hardly! The “evidence” you keep refering back to doesn’t exist!
And in the above quote, we see the real essence of your problem with not having Shatner in the movie. You have problems distinguishing Kirk the character from Shatner the actor. Kirk _is_ appearing in this TOS movie, because you’re right in that sense–Kirk is part of the vital mix of TOS. It just may be Shatner may not appear as Kirk in this movie. If the writers and J.J. didn’t plan this entire movie around Shatner’s Kirk, then I don’t think not having him will necessarily cause box office doom and gloom. Again, none of you BBKers have evidence to support that conclusion.
And by the way…the fact the BBKers won’t shut up about this topic doesn’t prove it’s “importance” any more than an old crazed man who keeps rambling about how he got served some cold soup back in ‘48 is discussing anything of great worth, either.
#84
Thanks!
I know exactly how to inject a “sense of wonder” to the film…
#88 – Iowagirl
Let me guess… a wink and a nudge, right? ;)
87. Sleeper Agent X “…the fact the BBKers won’t shut up about this topic doesn’t prove it’s ‘importance’”
It’s more than a select small group who’d like to see Shatner as Kirk back. It’s a lot of fans, and one can reasonably assume that acceptance of the idea would be even more widespread amongst the general public, who recognize TOS as the true Star Trek. I’m not saying this new film will fail without him. I never have made that claim. But it’s wrong to make it sound as if only a small number would like to see him return.
And, please, the anti-BBKers won’t shut up about it any more than those who are pro; they’re often the most vocal. Perhpas you should tell Anthony how to run his site and ask him not to post anymore Shatner threads?
I think Shatners ego might unbalance the film. That’s exactly the sort of thing the new producers don’t want. Just having Nimoy is the ideal compromise. He’s the real star of ‘Trek’ anyway. Even non trekkers know who Spock is.
#81 Jay
All good solid relevant points. I still think that conversation with ‘the phone call’ is of some importance. Your point #5 is correct. if ‘Ner wasn’t in it he wouldn’t be crying about not being in it so much. And he IS a joker so he’s probably taking us all for a rollercoaster ride.
I agree that it would be foolish for JJ not to have ‘Ner in the movie when there is a possibility of a blockbuster looming in the very near distance. And don’t directors want to give their movies the best chance of BLOCKBUSTER stamped across a poster or something? Getting ‘Ner involved would do just that, with his recent upwards spike in popularity now. And I would like to see Kirk return. He is the essence of Trek, although I might get flamed later for saying this.
I am a complete devotee to Shatner and love him so much. In a world now devoted to the Lindsay Lohans and the Paris Hiltons Shatner is a sight for sore eyes, very sore eyes and often comes across as very witty and intelligent. This guy has been around for a long time and knows what he is talking about, besides him being an excellent actor, he is a superb role model. Even if we have all heard enough of his ‘whining’.
All of this ‘crying for attention’ thing would not happen if he was not in the movie. I am not sure if he is in it but I sorely hope that he is. I do not think that he is holding out for more money. I believe that he realizes that and will be doing his fans a service if he appears in the movie next year and he will be doing us a disservice if he is not in it. Most likely, he really wants to be in it and I hear that they are rebooting the script possibly to fit Shatner in (from williamshatner.com’s administrator Paul) as I frequent the site a lot and am a member there, but it could just be another rumor. I really want a Star Trek movie that is reasonable, works, and includes Shatner. I do not think that his ‘whining’ as some call it, is a plea for attention, although it brings to light that there is a new movie and in turn creates buzz. Believe me, there will be adequate buzz when the movie comes out. I can see the headlines now, ‘Paramount’s JJ Abrams Resurrecting Trek – Thought Long Dead After how Many Years?’
Kirk might be ‘dead’ but as Spock says, ‘There are always possibilities.’
I, like many of the Shatner fans here, are waiting for the possibility of Shatner.
I leave you with Kirk’s famous ‘last’ words:
‘Every starship needs its Captain’
“It’s more than a select small group who’d like to see Shatner as Kirk back. It’s a lot of fans,”
Maybe. Maybe not. I kinda suspect every single ardent Shatner fan is on the internet and posting about the subject, while those who aren’t that passionate about whether he’s in the movie or not probably don’t post that much about the topic (seeing as they’re not vehemently passionate about it!).
“one can reasonably assume that acceptance of the idea would be even more widespread amongst the general public, who recognize TOS as the true Star Trek.”
Now there you are wrong, sir! There’s no sense in saying the internet crowd represents the general public, when time and time again, in any area you choose to look at, the exact opposite has proven true.
Die-hard Bond fans on the internet railed against a blonde 007, but guess what? The general public thought Daniel Craig was great as Bond. Transformers fans on the net raised a hue and cry over flames being painted on Optimus Prime –”they’re like nipples on the Bat suit!” but the movie went on to be a big hit anyway. I seriously doubt the general public cares that much whether Shatner appears in the new film.
You’re right most people think of TOS when they think of Star Trek. But they’ll be perfectly happy with the new cast portraying TOS (so long as they new cast can act) because they’re just not wedded to original portrayals the way the die-hard fans are.
Where the BBKers really astound me is they always think they’re in the mainstream…without a single iota of proof to back them up whatsoever! Fellas, you’re not the mainstream! You’re not even in the mainstream of fandom, let alone the general audience! Why do you think Shatner got a big laugh with that “Get a life!” skit on SNL all those years ago!
#90 – Shatner_Fan_2000
I appreciate your moderate tone to your argument. And you’re right… the truth is that there IS no right or wrong in this debate.
However, there ARE I do seem some parallels to other recent outcries. I’m not sure if you visit other entertainment sites, but there was any equally large outcry about painting flames on Optimus Prime. James Bond fans were adament that Bond could not be blonde.
I think that it’s safe to say that neither one of those travesties adversely affected the respective films. While I wasn’t particularly impressed with Transformers, it’s because I found the story and character development to be weak. Conversely, I loved Casino Royale because the acting was strong, and not because of Daniel Craig’s hair colouring.
I guess what bothers me the most is the irrationality that people take in these debates, on both sides of the fence.
That’s why I appreciate the last few posts of yours… I prefer intelligent discussion, with both sides considering the other’s points of view.
# 87
Just take a close look at all other recent posts and you will have the answer to your post – regarding content and tone. You will not receive another answer from me; it would be irresponsible to do so.
#93 – Sleeper Agent X
I see that we’re borrowing the same brain today… better stop that… people might think that we’re sharing notes or something… lol :D
Re 95:
I’m gonna give you a wink and a nudge as my response! You can’t argue with that, can you? ;-)
re 96:
LOL! Good to see you posting here again, by the way, John N!
#94 – Myself
Yikes… I just re-read that post… I obviously decided to change my train of thought, but my figners protested… it’s uspposed to read:
“However, there ARE some parallels to other recent outcries”
#98 – Sleeper Agent X
Thanks… I’m always visiting the site, but I try to resist posting when I can… it becomes a bit addictive.
I can’t help but notice how you and I always seem to be on the same side of the debate… regardless of the topic! :)
Re 100:
“Great minds,” and all that! :-)
ok folks….maybe find a way to express your opinions without attacking fellow posters…it is the post not the poster.
And I feel I must express an opinion backing up what has been said by some here. If you do not believe that putting one particular actor into a film regardless of the effect on the script, that does not mean you are not a fan of that actor or of Star Trek. No one has a monopoly on who is a fan and what is the right way to be a fan.
Abrams has stated they will not ’shove’ Shatner into the movie and pointed out that it would do a disservice to Shatner and to the fans to do so. I agree and I think most agree. It would be nice but dont ’shove him in’
…and that really seems to be it. We will wait and see if it can be done and is worth the cost (in terms of money and effect on the story).
Personally I want him in the movie. But I want a good movie first and foremost
Anyway play nice
# 89
That would be almost all I’m asking for…:-)
#91 Even non-Trekkers know who Kirk is as well! I would counter that they ESPECIALLY know who Kirk is. I grew up correcting people when they described Spock as Doctor Spock.
Doesn’t show the greatest depth of understanding of the character, does it! :D
Perhaps not the strongest argument that you could have come up with!
93. Sleeper Agent X – “Now there you are wrong, sir! There’s no sense in saying the internet crowd represents the general public”
I think you misinterpreted. What I was saying is that a mainstream audience – who you ageed think of Shatner/Nimoy/TOS as the “real” Star Trek – would be receptive to the idea of their return. That was the sum of my statement. I in no way implied they’d boycott the film if Shatner *isn’t* in it. Hell, I’m not even boycotting the film. I want a success story, and I’ll pay my $10 at the first showing no matter who is or isn’t in the cast.
Awhile back, I noted that as Star Trek geeks playing on the internet, we represent a unique group that is divided as to which incarnations of Trek we prefer. But go do a poll on the street and it’ll be much more clear – TOS is Star Trek. And Bill Shatner is the star of TOS. And he’s more popular today than ever. That’s all pretty indisputable. In fact, someone did conduct just such a poll amongst non-fans. VOODOO, was it you?
“every single ardent Shatner fan is on the internet and posting about the subject, while those who aren’t that passionate about whether he’s in the movie or not probably don’t post that much about the topic”
Anyone who’s ever studied demographics or statistical sampling, as I did in college, knows that for every one person who takes the time to voice their opinion, there are many others who silently agree. That’s how ratings are measured in tv, radio, marketing, etc.
“Where the BBKers really astound me is they always think they’re in the mainstream…without a single iota of proof to back them up whatsoever!”
We ARE in the mainstream when it comes to demonstrating a preference for TOS/Shatner. The mainstream didn’t watch Enterprise, or go see Nemesis, or know much at all about Berman-era Trek. Everyone knows TOS, everyone knows Shatner. The popularity of both show and star have aced the test of time, lasting more than 40 years and burning as bright as ever today.
Why don’t we just get them to commission Bill Shatner to play himself in a 15-minute short that can precede the new movie in theaters? Just get him to do a 15min travelogue as he and Leonard Nimoy good-naturedly rib each other, go shopping for groceries , have an awkward run in with a traffic cop and finally pull into a drive-in where the new Star Trek is about to begin.
You could then fade out as they open the bags of popcorn and Shatner says “I still think I should’ve been in this movie ya know…” and Nimoy says,
“Let’s just watch the film Bill”
And then just segue into the movie proper. :)
Re 105:
“who you ageed think of Shatner/Nimoy/TOS as the “real” Star Trek ”
Now, now. Don’t go twisting my words, ShatFan! I said people tend to think of TOS when they think of Star Trek. They think of Kirk, Spock, and “beam me up Scotty”. That’s not the same as being completely wedded to Shatner and/or even Nimoy in those roles. I think it’s fantastic Nimoy is in this movie, because I am a big fan, but that doesn’t mean a successful Star Trek TOS film couldn’t have been made without either him or Shatner. Eventually, Star Trek will have to go on without Shatner or Nimoy, sad to say. I doubt either of them would want Star Trek to end when they’re no longer able to act.
” I in no way implied they’d boycott the film if Shatner *isn’t* in it. ”
I never claimed that you would. I was merely pointing out fan sentiments are often very different from the mainstream public.
“Anyone who’s ever studied demographics or statistical sampling, as I did in college, knows that for every one person who takes the time to voice their opinion, there are many others who silently agree. That’s how ratings are measured in tv, radio, marketing, etc.”
Ummmm….well perhaps it’s time you took a refresher course? Because what I remember being absolutely critical to polling or sampling is that the sampling method needs to be representative in order to get accurate results, and that it’s easy to get skewed results with improper polling methods. And the internet is the biggest dangling chad ever, skewed towards those who have the most passion to type or click away.
Why do you think when networks or newspapers run internet polls on who your favorite political candidate is, they always provide the disclaimer that the results aren’t scientific?
If you really did study statistics in college, this should all be readily apparent to you, and you should know what exactly what I mean when I say that your line of thinking is flawed by “selection bias”.
#104
Agreed.
Anyway, this “doesn’t show depth of understanding the character” seems to be a general problem, or maybe it is more a problem of “doesn’t show understanding of the depth of the character”…
Just a thought that occured to me…
#104.
I disagree. When Nick Meyer was asked to direct Star Trek II he asked, “Is that the one with the pointy ears?”
Non trekkers are more likely to associate Spock with Star Trek, rather than Kirk.
I have seen people describe Kirks death in Gen in any number of ways.
“They made a huge mistake”….”The dumbest thing they ever did”….”A black mark on the franchise that needs to be undone”
And in all of these descriptions, and more, there seems to be the idea that Shatner was a victim as much as the fictional character of Kirk. He wasn’t.
“THEY made a huge mistake” Yes, THEY is comprised of Paramount, B&B and William Shatner.
“A Black mark on the franchise” that wouldn’t have happened without William Shatners willing participation. In the end, HE bears ultimate responsibility for Kirks death more than anyone else. They can write all the Trek scripts in the world, having the characters do any number of things, but if the actor refuses to play…….then it doesn’t happen. No one showed up at Shatners house and forced him to be in Gen at gunpoint.
And no, they would not have recast him. So please stop with the blaming everyone else but Shatner. You wanna get mad that some writers wrote a script killing Kirk…..go ahead. You wanna get mad at Paramount for greenlighting it….go ahead. But you need to be mad at the only person who *could* and *did* make it happen: William Shatner.
He made his bed for himself and for the fans so stop acting like he didn’t.
And the idea of undoing his death…..uh..who cares? You’d see old Kirk and old Spock and……then what? It doesn’t matter because they’re not going to make a series of movies with old Kirk and Spock. It’ll be a few seconds and a little switch will go off in your head telling you that you can now imagine that an imaginary character is no longer dead. Even though he didn’t get de-aged so he’ll prolly be dead again in a few years.
And in “Unification” Spock, unlike fans, has moved on in life. He looks back at Kirk the way many of us look on a close friend that has died. Fondly, but *our* life didn’t end and we get on with the business of living. Spock did not spend every day mourning Kirk. He went on to new career, made many new friends as he outlived most of his old ones, got married and so on. And after almost a century prolly doesn’t even think much back to the relatively short time he spent with Kirk and crew. Any more than a 80 year old thinks back to his high school days.
So no, the idea that 24th century Spock is trying to bring Kirk back in the 24th century is just not interesting. Nor were Shatners books that did so.
“Few actors in history have lasted as long as he has, and remained as successful as he IS. ”
This is just ridiculous. Too many actors to name have lasted as long as he has (jesus…watch any ep of Diagnosis Murder or Murder, She Wrote and you’ll see plenty of actors who have lasted as long as he has) and as far as success…..uh…he was in Star Trek…roughly twelve years later he was in a show about a cop (that wasn’t any more succesful than crap like “The Fall Guy” nor any more deep) then roughly twenty years later he’s in a legal show.
The guys career happens in blips. He’s known, then forgotten, then comes back. Like John Travolta.
“The man IS one of the top actors around”
No….he’s not. Not by a long shot or by any definition of the words “Top Actors”. He’s no where near one of the top actors around. He’s a capable actor and that’s it. Looking at the history of Hollywood, from Mary Pickford to Robert DeNiro, Shatner doesn’t even register.
It’s true. Shatner chose to kill off Kirk in the films. We should respect those wishes.
# 109
Ok, now we have the solution to all our problems. Let ALL roles be casted with Spock and his re-casts, make sure his pointy ears are clearly visible all the time and JJ Abrams will have his blockbuster!
End of discussion; we can all go to bed…
#109 ok, we can disagree all day long! The fact that we don’t agree with each other isn’t going to change either of our minds! ;)
Point to pose a thought.
At this stage of the game, shouldn’t we, as Star Trek enthusiasists,
be more invested in whether the new Kirk is casted well, as opposed to all this blather about William Shatner being available to get a proper curtain call?
I’m ready for some good old fashion futurism!
When it comes to the popularity of Spock’s ears, we get the point….or is that points?
Still hoping this one’s a musical. Spock Rock. Yeah!
#112 “End of discussion; we can all go to bed”.
Don’t let us detain you. ;)
Live long with lobster!
Harry.
I don’t know if Shatner’s the center of the universe, but his big butt is certainly a black hole drawing all conversation towards him.
Again… I love Shat. I love him as Kirk or this elder jester he’s become. But, there’s a lot more to Trek than the Shat. I’d rather see speculation on the plot, or the sets or the ship. (Yes, the ship. I can’t wait to see the TOS E fully realized!)
Oh, what’s the use…
“live long with lobster”
Hey, that’s better than wishing the crabs on someone!!
Especially to a guy named Harry Ballz!!!
# 119.
I agree with those sentiments . The new film should not hinge on Shatner. There’s so much more to Trek.
Thanks Kobayashi, that’s very lice of you!!
There is not a single actor in the world that would bring more people into a Star Trek film than William Shatner.
That may not be true in any other film,but Shatner as Kirk brings back the legions of fans who have left the series.
Not a single star Tom Cruise,Reese Whiterspoon,Brad Pitt..etc would bring more people to a ST film than Shatner.
Combined with the buzz it would case if he is brought back it seems like a no brainer to me.
Using this site as a microcosom Shatner’s return seems to be THE big issue on ST fans minds.
#110
- No one showed up at Shatners house and forced him to be in Gen at gunpoint. -
Did somebody force Nimoy to let Spock die in ST II? Did they blackmail him or something? Maybe you know a story we weren’t aware of yet…
Reese Witherspoon as Kirk??
Well, she is cute, but talk about a reimagining….
Witherspoon as Kirk? She certainly has the CHIN for it!
#110
My sentiments exactly.
Honestly, if he doesn’t make it into the movie, it’ll be no big deal from where I am standing.
Although, as some have mentioned, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was just some publicity hoopla and he is actually already in the movie but it’s just promoted otherwise to draw more attention to the project.
William Shatner is a great character, a parody of himself that people enjoy watching. Hardly anyone to be ranked as top actor. He’s fun to watch, and he works steadily, which is not easy in Hollywood.
But his casting should only serve the story, nothing else.
#124 – Ivory
Oh come on. I love Shatner at Kirk, but statements like that are beyond ridiculous.
If you put Justin Timberlake in the freakin’ film, I’d bet the house that the teenagers alone would guarantee a bigger box office than any previous Trek film. I’m not saying that the film wouldn’t completely suck, but you cannot discount the popularity of actors out there. If you cast Nicholson, Deniro, or Hoffman in the film, they would draw less people than a film without Shatner? Let’s at least keep common sense in the discussion.
#125 – Iowagirl
I’m not sure that’s relevant. Nimoy wanted Spock to die because he no longer wanted to appear in subsequent Trek films. However, due to his good experience during the filming of TWOK, they left the door open for an obvious sequel and resurrection of the character. There was a plausible story arc to follow and conclude. In other words, they left the door ajar.
That’s not exactly the case that’s being discussed here. Here’ we’re trying to force open a door that’s been shut… and the hinges have been rusting for 13 years and counting…
107. Sleeper Agent X “people tend to think of TOS when they think of Star Trek. They think of Kirk, Spock, and “beam me up Scotty”. That’s not the same as being completely wedded to Shatner and/or even Nimoy in those roles”
Uh, now you are truly splitting tribble hairs! Of course they think of Kirk & Spock … who just happen to have the faces, voices, and mannerisms of Shatner and Nimoy! It’s not the same as asking someone to picture Batman, where they might imagine anything from a drawing to George Clooney. While it is good to remember that actor and character are different entities, as of this point in time, those 2 actors embody the characters in everyone’s minds. They are indelibly linked with the roles. Shatner gave Kirk the halting vocal delivery style that became famous the world over. Nimoy created the Vulcan salute that even non-Trekkers recognize. And you’re trying to tell me that thinking of Kirk & Spock does not = thinking of Shatner & Nimoy? We can debate the semantics of that ’til we’re blue in the face, but it is so, and we all know it.
“but that doesn’t mean a successful Star Trek TOS film couldn’t have been made without either him or Shatner.”
Yeah, I said as much. Did you read the part where I wrote, “I want a success story, and I’ll pay my $10 at the first showing no matter who is or isn’t in the cast.”
And if you don’t think internet sampling provides an accurate gauge of the number of Shatner fans out there, refer back to point #1. You and I BOTH agree that the general public thinks of Kirk when they think of Trek. And regardless of what you might wish to believe, they DO think of Shatner when they think of Kirk! Why do you have such a hard time accepting that in Shatner’s portrayal of Kirk, Trek had its most popular character?
Yikes!!!!!!
The inmates running the asylum!!!!!!
Re 130:
Oh, come on, Shatfan! Yes, when people think of TOS, they think of Kirk and Spock. And when people think of Spy movies they think of 007. But just as the general audience can accept a number of different actors playing Bond, and not just Sean Connery with his gravelly voice and Scottish accent, and the way he slurs his s’s, so too will the general audience accept a new Kirk who doesn’t speak with Shatner’s particular inflections. Hell, even Shatner doesn’t talk like young Shatner anymore!
So in the end, it’s not all about Shatner. That’s all I’m saying. And as to why I care about the subject? It’s because I’m a fan of Star Trek, not just a Shatner fan. There’s a lot riding on this movie and there’s a lot more to whether it’s good and whether it’ll succeed than whether Shatner appears in it or not. Reading about some people here claiming that Shatner is the be all and end all in Trek is just annoying, and the fan in me sometimes insists on correcting them.
“And if you don’t think internet sampling provides an accurate gauge of the number of Shatner fans out there”
You, sir, need to do more homework on the perils of internet sampling! As someone who supposedly studied statistics seriously in college, you shouldn’t even be arguing against me on this point. I refer to you to Wikipedia on the topic of “selection bias”, if nothiing else.
things to bear in mind.
1. this is a site for hard core fans. Everyone visiting this site will see the movie (even if they say they will not)
2. only a tiny fraction of visitors post
3. only a fraction of posters seems to be on the ’shat MUST be’ in the movie.
therefore do not extrapolate what a half dozen repeated posters say over and over for some kind of mainstream mandate. Polling even on this site shows that people can take shat or leave him for the most part. The all or nothing crowd is a minority of a minority of a minority.
I do not like people laying claim to saying this site or even the visitors of this site are some kind of endorsement of their particular view…whatever that is
#133 I’m interested to know – What do you class as a hard core fan, Anthony?
JJ Abrams is a fool NOT to have Shatner in the movie. It goes to show you how disconnected Abrams and Paramount is from the fans of Trek and what is NEEDED besides some “tiny toon TOS story. I mean who the hell really cares about Baby Spock? Just silly…..
Bring back Shatner as Kirk…don’t be a total ass JJ!! JUST DO IT!
BE VERY GLAD FOLKS THEY DIDNT CAST LEONARDO DICAPRIO OR JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE TO PLAY THE ROLE OF YOUNG KIRK….THEN THE MOVIE WOULD REALLY SUCK…………………………………
132. Sleeper Agent X “But just as the general audience can accept a number of different actors playing Bond, and not just Sean Connery … so too will the general audience accept a new Kirk who doesn’t speak with Shatner’s particular inflections.”
Wow. You really do not pay attention, do you? Way back in post #75 I said – as I have from the very beginning – please pay attention here: I am IN FAVOR OF RECASTING KIRK. I want it to work out. Why are you defending a position no one challenged?
“there’s a lot more to whether it’s good and whether it’ll succeed than whether Shatner appears in it or not. Reading about some people here claiming that Shatner is the be all and end all in Trek is just annoying, and the fan in me sometimes insists on correcting them.”
Well then, “the fan in you” should pay more careful attention to what other fans are actually saying. I already said – as I have from the very beginning – that I hope the flick is a success, Shat or no Shat. So what are you bothered by – the fact that I like the guy and I’d enjoy seeing him in the movie? Does that really “annoy” you? If so, you’re pretty high-strung! And please point me to the post where ANYONE said he’s the “be all end all in Trek”? I think you’re jumping the phaser and overreacting to things that haven’t been said. It’s clear that for some reason, you feel threatened by Shatner’s popularity. As Spock once said, “Please get a grip on yourself.”
“You, sir, need to do more homework on the perils of internet sampling!”
I was offering you a real world alternative. Joe and Jane Public – the people out there on the street right now – think of Shatner/TOS as the definitive Star Trek. Anyone who says otherwise would be just plain silly (sorry, Anthony). And you and I already agreed on that, Sleeper, so why belabor the issue?
Ok, you’ve tired me out now. I enjoy debating, but having to repeat oneself over and over because the other person doesn’t listen is just draining.
Quote:”Everyone visiting this site will see the movie (even if they say they will not)”
Sorry but I am not interested in seeing baby Spock. So I will not be attending.
Say the seat for the American Idol audience they are trying so desperately to attract.
Boycott STXI
#137 – Shatner_fan_2000
In defense of Sleeper Agent X, there are a number of posters on this site that imply, if not outright state that Shatner is the “be all end all in Trek”.
#135 is an eloquent example. #28 is another passionate fan who implies as much
Not you however… you’re much more reasonable. ;)
Hey John N, thanks. I’ll see you your #135 & #28 and raise you a #29 & #31. :)
I have no problem with somone playing peacemaker, stepping in and calling a timeout. I just don’t want my side singled out as the bad guys, when in fact many of us are just expressing our love for something, only to have to defend it from a people who are annoyed by other people’s happiness.
#140 – Shatner_Fan_2000
Well played sir. Well played. Even I have not defense for #31. ;)
And once again, I’ll be happy to join your side, so long as Shatner’s inclusion serves the overall story, and is not, as Abrams put it, an attempt to just “shove him in”.
Peace…
John
What does Abrams care? He never wrote the script. It is clear he is not a fan of Trek. Saying your fan and actually being one are two different things. I don’t believe for a second he is a fan of Trek. I would believe that like he said he was a fan of “Superman”. hahah
Should of got Manny Coto on this project.
You blew it again Paramount!!
Re 139:
Thanks, John N! There certainly have been people here who’ve said Trek is nothing without Shatner, and that is what I was speaking to, though maybe I should have been clearer.
And I agree with you when you say Justin Timberlake would be huge draw…though that idea frightens the heck out of me!
Re 137:
“I was offering you a real world alternative. Joe and Jane Public – the people out there on the street right now – think of Shatner/TOS as the definitive Star Trek. Anyone who says otherwise would be just plain silly (sorry, Anthony). And you and I already agreed on that, Sleeper, so why belabor the issue?”
Again, ShatFan, we didn’t _quite_ agree! Like I said before, there’s a distinction between TOS and Shatner, so please don’t put words in my mouth! Anyone can go back and actually read what I wrote, anyway!
To say it again, when people think of Trek, I’d say they’d think of Kirk and Spock…but that doesn’t mean they’d be thrilled to see Shatner again–especially if it meant shoehorning him into the script in a way that didn’t add to the story or required a lot of deep fanboy-esque continuity knowledge (like all that stuff about the Nexus that sometimes gets bandied about here).
Also, I notice that even though you were the one who brought up how you studied statistics in college, you’ve now completely ducked out on that aspect of the debate! Not to be too blunt about it, but you really haven’t shown much understanding about the subject at all here, and now you’re reduced to the same “I know in my heart the public loves Shatner and wants to see him again” line of argument others have made here–and with the same lack of evidence. Sorry, but that doesn’t cut it in the world of statistics. It sure doesn’t with me, either.
Whew. Enough for me now on this subject too…for now!
Hey VOODOO, once you beam in, please read my post #105. Weren’t you the one who conducted the General Public’s Opinion on Star Trek poll? I’d be interested to see the results of that again.
Sure, why not? It was meaningless, unscientific and loaded, but it *was* a poll. :lol:
Am I the only one who thinks that Shatner is becoming more of an ass everyday? He keeps saying he’s not in the film and that we should complain to JJ, but JJ and his crew keep telling us that they want him in the film. And I’m starting to think that JJ and his crew are right and Shatner keeps holding out for something? I’m just sick of Shatner and his Abrams bashing. Hey Bill, he wants you in, you want in and we want you in (for now), so what’s the problem?
Re 145:
Hee hee… I must have missed Voodoo’s “poll”. But just knowing his posts in general I somehow don’t see him as the most scientific, unbiased polltaker out there.
Re 146:
“Hey Bill, he wants you in, you want in and we want you in (for now), so what’s the problem?”
$$$$$$! $$$$$$$ $$$$$ $$$$ $$$$$ $$$$ $$ $$ $$$$$$$$$ $$$$ $$$$ $$$! $$’$ $$$$$$!
Am I the only one who thinks that Shatner is becoming more of an ass everyday? He keeps saying he’s not in the film and that we should complain to JJ, but JJ and his crew keep telling us that they want him in the film. And I’m starting to think that JJ and his crew are right and Shatner keeps holding out for something? I’m just sick of Shatner and his Abrams bashing. Hey Bill, he wants you in, you want in and we want you in (for now), so what’s the problem?
If he wanted Shatner in the movie then the script would of had him in it in the first place. So Abrams had no intention of having him in it and just feeding everyone a line. If I was Shatner I would be pissed at him because he is just feeding everyone a line. He probably mentioned to something about having Kirk in the movie during one of his meetings with Shatner only to turn around and say “nope…get lost”.
To have Shatner in the movie now would require a major rewrite and there is no time to do that. So Abrams is just stalling and giving everyone “nice lines” to keep everyone happy.
If Abrams and crew keep saying they want him in. Then do it. What is the hold up? Why are we not hearing about a major rewrite right now? Why are we not hearing about Shatner announcing that he is going to be in the film like Nimoy doing a 6 min cameo? Answer: Not happening. Abrams is just blowing smoke up everyones ass.
Boycott STXI!
#146: “And I’m starting to think that JJ and his crew are right and Shatner keeps holding out for something?”
Eminently logical. ;)
What could Shatner possibly want? Why don’t they just say what this “magical thing” is? There was never a plan to have Shatner in the film so they are going to turn it against Shatner now. How incredibly sad. They have a great opportunity to bring Shatner back as Kirk which means $$$. But instead they are just wasting it. Abrams and crew shouldn’t be doing this film. Period!
Again, they keep saying they want him. Then what is the hold up? Where is the rewrite? Where is the announcement that Shatner is in? None of this is going to happen because they never wanted Shatner in the first place.
#150: “What could Shatner possibly want? Why don’t they just say what this “magical thing” is?”
Because negotiations are not carried out in public on the Internet and it’s therefore none of your business.
#151. What a cop out! The fact remains Abrams says he wants him and we are seeing “nothing” to suggest that he is even trying. Getting Nimoy would of been the hardest part seeing how Shatner has wanted to do another film for years now. So this idea that “Shatner wants something” is a big stretch. The fact remains is that Abrams is in charge and could easily get Shatner into the movie and he is not doing it. If so then where is the announcement to validate this? Answer: He doesn’t want him in the film.
#129
And what makes you think this would not be true for this movie? We’re by no means trying to force a door open that’s been shut. 13 years ago, the times were different. The TOS era was supposed to come to an end and level the way for TNG, the then new series and its subsequent films. Meanwhile, the TNG era as well as all other subsequent series have come to an end and, therefore, Paramount was on the search for something entirely new to attract the audience and what did they find – TOS. So, we are now facing a totally different situation im comparison to 13 years ago. A fresh, new, bold situation with new possibilities. Decisions have to be reconsidered. It seems like the human adventure has just begun.
#137
– Ok, you’ve tired me out now. I enjoy debating, but having to repeat oneself over and over because the other person doesn’t listen is just drainining. -
Glad that you realised it, at last.
#152: “What a cop out! ”
No, it’s a pretty straightforward answer. What makes you think that anyone involved in this would share the details with everyone in creation? That’s just not the way things are done, and if you think differently you’re misinformed.
151. Dennis Bailey – “Because negotiations are not carried out in public on the Internet and it’s therefore none of your business.”
Really? Yet you sure seemed to know the private side of these particular negotiations when in #29 you said, “I’m sure that if he (Shatner) becomes reasonable…”. Of course, when I asked you how you could possibly know for certain what you’re talking about, you had no response. That’d be because you don’t know anything more than the rest of us. Yet here you are again, pulling implications out of thin air. When a book comes out explaining why Shatner wasn’t in the movie (IF in fact he is not, which I do NOT believe will be the case), then we can all discuss it. Until then, all these ‘He’s pricing himself out!’ posts from you and others mean absolutely zip. Abrams and Nimoy suggested that the issue was finding a worthy role for an already killed-off character. That is ALL we have to go on at this point.
147. Sleeper Agent X “Hee hee… I must have missed Voodoo’s ‘poll’. But just knowing his posts in general I somehow don’t see him as the most scientific, unbiased polltaker out there.”
Don’t be mistaken, SAX – since I’m often defending the Shat from you, you’re not exactly viewed as an unbiased contributor yourself. You and Mr. Bailey are two of the biggest Shatner Bashies around. What I don’t understand is … why? Like I said earlier, you don’t see me in any TNG threads continually trying in vain to bring down that show or its stars. I don’t need to get my kicks that way; I’m mature enough not to feel the need to attack what doesn’t appeal to me. At least in Bailey’s case, I’ve heard that he was associated with the now closed for business era of Trek, the Berman-era. What’s your beef, SAX?
And hey, all that poll I remember showed is that the general public was overwhelmingly familiar with TOS and Captain Kirk vs. other incarnations of the Star Trek franchise. We all already know that. You’ve already agreed to it, SAX:
#107 “people tend to think of TOS when they think of Star Trek. They think of Kirk, Spock, and ‘beam me up Scotty’.”
And you’re right, because to suggest otherwise would be ignorant. So that places you in agreement with the results of the poll. Thanks for your time. :)
Re 155:
Ah, you’ve displayed a lack of understanding about statistics again, Shatfan. Because even though you think you’ve made a point about me supposedly agreeing with Voodoo’s poll results, the REAL point was that Voodoo’s poll was in all likelihood done unscientifically and with perhaps no small amount of bias. So whether the poll happens to back up whatever you happen to believe or not, it is still worthless.
See, if you remembered anything from those statistics courses you say you took, you’d know that the search for the objective truth means divorcing how you get your data and calculate your results from whatever you personally want to believe in. I have a hard time believing you took any statistics courses at all, because without that fundamental grasp of the scientific method, everything else is worthless.
As far as being a Shat-basher…c’mon! I’ve pretty much steered clear of saying anything bad about the man (unless you think saying he’s not the be-all and end-all in Trek is blasphemous!) but since you can’t find any real facts to support you here either, I guess you’ve decided to go with cheap shots and falsehoods.
Thanks for playing, though. We’ve got some great consolation prizes for you backstage…textbooks on statistics and debating!
All good solid relevant points. I still think that conversation with ‘the phone call’ is of some importance. Your point #5 is correct. if ‘Ner wasn’t in it he wouldn’t be crying about not being in it so much. And he IS a joker so he’s probably taking us all for a rollercoaster ride.
I agree that it would be foolish for JJ not to have ‘Ner in the movie when there is a possibility of a blockbuster looming in the very near distance. And don’t directors want to give their movies the best chance of BLOCKBUSTER stamped across a poster or something? Getting ‘Ner involved would do just that, with his recent upwards spike in popularity now. And I would like to see Kirk return. He is the essence of Trek, although I might get flamed later for saying this.
I am a complete devotee to Shatner and love him so much. In a world now devoted to the Lindsay Lohans and the Paris Hiltons Shatner is a sight for sore eyes, very sore eyes and often comes across as very witty and intelligent. This guy has been around for a long time and knows what he is talking about, besides him being an excellent actor, he is a superb role model. Even if we have all heard enough of his ‘whining’.
All of this ‘crying for attention’ thing would not happen if he was not in the movie. I am not sure if he is in it but I sorely hope that he is. I do not think that he is holding out for more money. I believe that he realizes that and will be doing his fans a service if he appears in the movie next year and he will be doing us a disservice if he is not in it. Most likely, he really wants to be in it and I hear that they are rebooting the script possibly to fit Shatner in (from williamshatner.com’s administrator Paul) as I frequent the site a lot and am a member there, but it could just be another rumor. I really want a Star Trek movie that is reasonable, works, and includes Shatner. I do not think that his ‘whining’ as some call it, is a plea for attention, although it brings to light that there is a new movie and in turn creates buzz. Believe me, there will be adequate buzz when the movie comes out. I can see the headlines now, ‘Paramount’s JJ Abrams Resurrecting Trek – Thought Long Dead After how Many Years?’
Kirk might be ‘dead’ but as Spock says, ‘There are always possibilities.’
I, like many of the Shatner fans here, are waiting for the possibility of Shatner.
I leave you with Kirk’s famous ‘last’ words:
‘Every starship needs its Captain’
Geez, this whole conversation has been rerun so many times, you folks should start getting royalties from the syndication rights!
156. “So whether the poll happens to back up whatever you happen to believe or not, it is still worthless.”
Oh brother. Where’s the eye rolling emoticon? For review: I said the poll “showed that the general public was overwhelmingly familiar with TOS and Captain Kirk vs. other incarnations of the Star Trek franchise.”
That is 100% true, no one in their right mind would disagree. And you said, “You’re right most people think of TOS when they think of Star Trek.”
Maybe I’m crazy, but that sure sounds like agreement to me, SAX. I think any court in the land would view that as concurrence. But you’re the type who’s so hard-headed and argumentative, you can’t even agree that we’ve agreed! Arguing whether we agreed is waaay off topic and waaay pointless, so let’s just drop that doggies chasing tails scenario, shall we?
As far as you getting pointlessly hung up on what we studied in college(!), another bizarre attempt by you to go off on an unrelated tangent, the only reason I brought up statistics in the first place is that in #93 you made the extremely unrealistic, sweeping statement that “every single” Shatner fan was on the internet and that there were none else anywhere. Dude, no one needs to get bogged down in “the scientific method” to realize that’s naught more than silly sour grapes from a man who, in his own words, is “annoyed” by Shatner fans and “insists on correcting them”.
“As far as being a Shat-basher…c’mon! I’ve pretty much steered clear of saying anything bad about the man”
And yet, here we are again, me defending him from you. Funny how that mysteriously happens, isn’t it? In #147, you cited greed (”$$$$$$!”) as the reason Shatner’s not yet in XI. And based on what? Certainly not facts.
Look, I already agreed that a recast Kirk is something I look forward to, and that the success of the movie doesn’t hinge on Shatner’s participation. Seeing him in it is simply my preference. You on the other hand are fanatically relentless in disputing every single positive thing said about the man. Try coming back down to Earth.
p.s. #158 – I agree! But what can I say? I defend against the haters.
Re 159:
Oh good grief, Shatfan! I thought you were going to take a break from this topic? If you can’t show some restraint here, I’ll go ahead and do so.
But you don’t get to label me or anyone else who’s spoken out against the BBK in a more or less respectful fashion as “haters”. Again, these are cheap tactics and outright lies.
Be better than that, Shattie.
“Oh good grief, Shatfan! I thought you were going to take a break from this topic?”
I thought you were too (#143). Then you and Dennis graced us with your insightful … ok, actually desperate and baseless ‘Shatner is greedy!’ series of posts and I returned. In all seriousness, I think that sort of malarkey needs to be stopped in its tracks, lest some casual readers scanning the threads mistake your lame speculation as actual facts.
“Be better than that, Shattie.”
I was already quite good, thank you. I stood up to you with cold, hard-to-deny logic and you went for your escape pod. If you can’t stand the heat, stay off Vulcan! See you next time. :)
So after 161 posts this whole long and boring thread can be summed up like this…
Shantner is not going to be in the next movie!
OR
He really is, but won’t tell us because he likes to tease his fans and wants it to be a surprise.
OR
He’s not committed yet, and holding out for alot more cash.
OR
He’s still waiting for the writer’s to find a way to weave his character into the new script, but as of now has no role.
OR
He knows he won’t be in the next movie, and it just trying to put on the best face possible. In reality he is quite upset and disappointed.
OR
He wants to be in the next movie, but his contract with Abrahms and Paramount stipulates he lose 75lbs before filming begins. So far the Nutri-System and Jenny Craig diest aren’t working.(See above video.)
Mike :o
Yeah, Mike, that’s pretty much it. :)
i hope you guys are all talked out now.
But if you must continue go at each other then I demand all posts include the word ‘kitten’ or ‘bunny’
Re 164:
“But if you must continue go at each other then I demand all posts include the word ‘kitten’ or ‘bunny’”
Tempting…tempting…
Trust me, Anthony, I could do that EASILY! :-)
#162
Nice summary – I just wonder why you made every effort to keep track of the posts in order to summarize them correctly when this whole thread is so boring. This must have been a really difficult time for you…
For us posting and, thus, doing the work for your nice little summary, many feelings are involved when dealing with this thread – boredom surely is not on my list.
And Lord Garth, The living legend gets the last word,,,,,,,
trapezoid!!!!
#166….
I visit Trekmovie.com a few times each week, and yes I did find this thread boring, repetetive and quite unimportant in the grand scheme of things. In fact everything posted on this thread has already been posted over and over again (ad naseum) on previous threads.
Anyway, sorry if my semi-sarcastic post hurt your “feelings”. I realize that many here take their Trek a whole lot more seriously than I do.
I guess I’m in the minority here when I say that I just hope the next Trek movie is a good film, great entertainment and successful- with or without William Shatner. As much as I admire and respect Shatner’s contribution to Star Trek, his involvement in the next movie is not important to me.
If the writers of ST XI can find a meaningful role for him in the next movie, that’s great. If not, it’s no big deal to me. It won’t hurt my “feelings” and I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.
Having said that, William Shatner’s legacy as the one and only Capt. James T. Kirk, will not, in any way, be diminished if he’s not involved in this project. His impact on the Trek franchise is indisputable.
The success of Trek is not dependent on any one character or actor, including Shatner. I for one see a promising future for Star Trek even without the talents of Nimoy, Shatner or any other actors involved in TOS or the spin off series.
Mike :o
Oh, no you don’t:
rhombus!!!!
Re 168:
Well said, Michael. I don’t think you’re really in the minority, either, although it sometimes seems that way.
….And the last word is…ISOSCELES!!!
#164:”But if you must continue go at each other then I demand all posts include the word ‘kitten’ or ‘bunny’”
It’s unclear to me whether Shatner wore a sedated kitten or a dead bunny on his head as a toupee in “Star Trek: The Motion Picture.”
171 – I hope you’re kitten about the toupee – it looks so real!
Dodecahedron!!!!!
octagon
Anyone seen shadow6283? I quite enjoyed his incendiary posts! :) Last I saw him, he was hitting on Iowagirl, then he just wanished, like the Tholian Veb.
Larry Craig looks alot like Patrick Stewart,
Star Trek the Randy Bathroom Stall Adventures
What good would stalls be on the Enterprise? Everytime someone walked past one it would whoosh open!
Re 175:
Lord Garth, use “bunny” or “kitten” in those types of posts, as Anthony requested, if you’re going to make them at all…
Re 174:
I think I saw him on an episode of “To Catch a Predator,” being hauled away!
His hitting on Iowagirl was just creepy…
Larry “Naughty Bunny” Craig looks alot like Patrick “Kitty” Stewart
Star Trek The Randy Bathroom Stall Adventures
Hows that ???
Better! But next time try to incorporate the references better. Here they’re clearly just slapped in there.
I’ll work on it SAX
I’m sure you will, Garth. ;-)
Howler Monkey
Mandible
shadow6283 tried to make Iowagirl his kitten. But he ran like a bunny when Chris Hansen and Dateline NBC showed up at his door!
(just kidding, shadow! just kidding! :))
Shatner_Fan
I did not see the #31 Ty Webb reference to “fans being shot” otherwise I would have mentioned it earlier and denounced it. There’s no place on this thread or any for that BS, even in jest. I agree that it was glossed over and should be dealt with. On that we agree.
Is anyone else as surprised as I am that we are only a couple of months away from the shoot and there is no official young or old Kirk news?
I thought for sure we would have at least had some strong rumors on the net by now.
Shatner_ Fan_ 2000:
It wasn’t me who put that poll up.
Was it StillKirok?
Oh who knows, VOODOO. What does it matter anyway? We’re all part of the same diabolical cadre. Serial rapists, Al Qaeda, those who enjoy the work of William Shatner … same difference. ;)
On second thought maybe I did put up that poll.
I don’t remember.
I think senility may be setting in.
VOODOO, an awful thought just occurred to me! What if, as someone suggested, they DO recast older Kirk! I tell ya, those who raised holy hell about not wanting Shatner in the film are sure gonna regret it when they buy their ticket on Christmas Day and are greeted by the sight of Leonard Nimoy and Andy Griffith as Starfleet’s saviors!
So my responses are being deleted? Nice website. hahaa
#191- Yikes! Now that would be scary. I can see it now…
“mmmmm mmm…Even multi-colored food cubes taste good on a ritz.”
Well, “kitten”…..the doctor called……..the bunny died…….guess I’ll have to marry you NOW……..
Oh, my – this whole posting thing must have really worn you out…
Ok, my dear fellow Shatner_Fan, I’ll never ever let anyone MAKE me his kitten, but, re-reading some of the posts, I get the feeling I could become a bunny boiler…
The bunny looked so frighteningly like a kitten that it would make your hare turn grey!
#193 – Now that’s funny! LOL!
#195 – So you’re telling me Shadow isn’t your “Caesar of the stars”?
#197
You should have an idea by now of who my “Ceasar of the stars” is. And, thanks to the powers of light, I’m not (yet) a serial killer… on the contrary – when I kiss the frog, ahem, the captain, he shall rise from the dead…
“when I kiss the frog, ahem, the captain, he shall rise”
Yeah, I’ll bet!!
See how a reporter can twist a soundbite?
What did I miss?