TNG@20: DeLancie On TOS v TNG + EW Countdown Top TNG Episodes September 20, 2007
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: TNG , trackback
Our friends at VoicesFromKrypton have an audio clip from a 1987 John DeLancie (Q) interview discussing the differences between the new Star Trek and the original. DeLancie said that when they were shooting the pilot there was no mention of the Original Series and that he felt that Patrick Stewart brought a ‘weight’ to TNG that the Original did not have. (Listen to the rest at VOK)
EW TNG Top 10
In honor of the anniversary Entertainment Weekly have put up a special feature counting down their top 10 Next Gen episodes complete with episode summaries, critques and trivia. It is a pretty good list and (as they point out) does not include any Holodeck malfunctions, but does include a few episodes with the aforementioned Q.
The EW Countdown List
10. CHAIN OF COMMAND
9. THE FIRST DUTY
8. FIRST CONTACT
7. SINS OF THE FATHER
6. THE MEASURE OF A MAN
5. ALL GOOD THINGS…
4. TAPESTRY
3. THE INNER LIGHT
2. THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS, PARTS I AND II
1. YESTERDAY’S ENTERPRISE
VOTE: Best of TNG?
Which one of EW’s top 5 do you think is the best. Vote in the new poll (right column)
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Comments»
frist! i mean tirfs! er… sirft!
oh forget it.
Yep, That’s a pretty definitive list. I think I’ll watch those over the next couple of weeks.
Yeah, “a weight” that’s why the current movie is back to the original. TNG never replicated the impact of Star Trek. In 40 years no one will care about this show. It had some great episodes, but he cultural impact is a media creation.
Stewart brought more “weight” to the show that the other lacked.
Hoooo-kaaaayyyy….
IMO, they both had pretty much the same “weight” as each other. It’s VOY and ENT that lacked any type of “weight”.
I like TNG. TNG is a friend of mine. Mr Q, TNG is no TOS!
#3 Ditto your comments.
Let’s not hijack this thread with yet another useless TOS versus TNG bashing. Both were great examples of Trek and both had their glorious and dreadful moments.
About the top-ten list – I totally agree with the top three – they are also my three favourites. The others are good eps too, but I would take out Chain Of Command, First Duty, First Contact, and Tapestry; and replace them with:
- The Wounded (about the renegade Captain who goes “Cardy-bashing” in a Nebula-Class starship).
- Parallels (about Worf shifting between alternate realities and encountering ever-different Enterprises – this ep is the natural extension of the whole “Mirror Universe” concept”. I wish they, or later ST series’, had used the concept more often and visited other “mirrors” besides the Terran Empire version).
- The Neutral Zone (a nice introduction of the Romulans to the TNG series and a preliminary to the Borg story arcs)
- The Chase (very nice genetic puzzle story with lots of action and a very clever way of explaining why so many of the intelligent races in the galaxy look similar).
I agree that’s a decent top 10; however, I would substitute “Darmok” where “First Contact” is and “Unification” or “Family” instead of “First Duty”.
Darmok has a lot of the same themes as “First Contact” but conveys them in a much more exciting/interesting manner. “First Duty” never really did it for me.
Re 6:
Hear, hear. For whatever reasons many of us Trek fans are big prima donnas, always looking for any excuse to get our undies in a bunch. Back when TNG first began, people wanted to know what ways the new show would be the same/would be different from TOS. DeLancie gave them his opinion, and let’s be honest–Stewart did bring some serious acting chops to the show, of a different sort than TOS had (not to knock any of TOS cast). I doubt TNG would have worked as well without Stewart.
I have to say… Yesterday’s Enterprise was amazing, stellar, fantastic and belongs on any top 10 TNG list.
But for me, NOTHING will ever beat the cliffhanger on BOBW Part 1. I have never stood up and yelled at the TV in outrage, anguish and sheer, utter, goosebumpy delight like I did the day that episode aired and the words “to be continued” appeared on the screen.
BOBW is THE gold standard and tops on my list. Can’t argue with any of the eps on this list. They’re all classics!
9- Totally agree, BUT what about “Q Who,” the Borg debut? (rhyme unintentional.) THAT ep. personified and epitomized the Borg like no other- and it had Q.
Ahhh.. gimme DS9 any day.
For me, it’s gotta be Best of Both Worlds. I mean, that cliffhanger revitalised the use of end-of-season cliffhangers in TV *everywhere*!! Actually, now I think about it, it’s not a totally bad idea to help judge episodes by seeing how many classic lines you remember…let’s see…”Mr Worf…Fire!!”, “There are FOUR lights!”, “Five card stud, nothing wild. And the sky’s the limit…”. And who can forget prune juice being a “Warrior’s drink”?! Wow…I could go on and on… but yeah, definitely a good list at the very list of “TNG eps to see before you die” :)
I miss New Coke :(
I would put Q Who on that list.
Not a bad top-ten list from EW, surprisingly. (Unlike their ridiculous science fiction movie top ten.)
As Rasterman said, I’d also push “Unification” and “Family” into the ST-TNG list.
All the good episodes are on that list. And that’s really sad. While there are some very strong episodes here, showcasing the series’ potential, there are literally a hundred more out there that boil down to nothing but hours and hours and hours of well crafted, paint by numbers mediocrity.
most of those episodes are already on my list, how about
Brothers
family
skin of evil
the arsenal of freedom
starship mine
night terrors
powerplay
conundrum
the high ground
the defector
the nutral zone
conspiracy
the child
the schizoid man
unification
thine own self
the game
where silence has lease
where no one has gone before
the naked now
silicon avatar
the nth degree
who watches the watchers
the survivors
relics
the chase
ship in a bottle
elementery , dear data
booby trap
and all the Q episodes except the one where it’s about robin hood..
and yeah I went over 10 but I don’t care
Nooooooo!
The TNG-bashers have returned! Will horrors never cease?
Ah well. Yeah, I think that list does a good job of selecting the best TNG eps, though there are literally dozens more that could be considered as well. Say what you want about TNG, but from season 3 on, it did maintain a pretty consistent quality level.
Happy 20th!
I think Patrick Stewart was a big reason for the success of TNG, and by that I mean becoming a series that non Trekkies watched every week. It was the most successful Trek show in terms of ratings on television, was it not? I think people thought, wow, here’s this powerful compelling British Shakespearean actor doing Star Trek, he made them watch. There were loads of powerful moments and moral issues that he carried with such conviction and style. He owned scenes, he made people wish they were like him.
To 3.
Sorry that you see it that way. I just hope fans in the future will be open to new things.
TNG is how Roddenberry wanted TREK to be.
It will last as long as TREK will last, as it is a part of the franchise, as are DS9, VOY, ENT and of course TOS.
It is sad to see close minded people who want to hurt other fans.
i think we have to put this all into context. In 1987 I can see why Delancie would think that Patrick (I, Claudius) Stewart had more weight than William (TJ Hooker) Shatner.
and Storma
although I agree with others that the silly ‘my trek is better than yours’ stuff is not cool, you are quite the pot calling the kettle black as you seem to have nothing nice to say about TOS and have been the most close minded person here about the new movie.
some of us are open minded enough to like them both, like the TNG movies and look forward to the new movie.
and for the record….Inner Light was the best TNG episode by far. If you were going to show a TNG episode to someone who is a fan of drama, but not really a big trek fan…that would be it
RandyYeoman is smart. She (or he, sorry) said something smart. I like TNG. It made me think. Thinkings good. It makes you smart.
#15
I agree TNG only had a handful of truly GREAT episodes, but there were still tons and tons of really good ones over the years.
Eps like Booby Trap, Ship in a Bottle, or The Nth Degree will never be considered classics, but they were still damn entertaining.
“6. cugel the clever – September 20, 2007
Let’s not hijack this thread with yet another useless TOS versus TNG bashing. Both were great examples of Trek and both had their glorious and dreadful moments.”
I think that is the point. Both DIDN’T have the same impact. TOS has lasted 40 years. They aren’t re-doing TNG special effects. They are doing TOS. TNG had some decent episodes, but to suggest it has the impact “Star Trek” (TOS) is simply not the case. Not even close. And considering TOS had only three seasons, that is even more testimony to its impact.
IT’s fine to like one or the other more, as to each their own. But there is no debate. TOS has had way more impact that TNG. No question.
TOS…TNG…DS9…VOY…ENT…
They all have great episodes!
Hey… TNG-bashers….Remember…IDIC!
I’d like to add, I like Battlestar Galactica more than both (combines) but it too doesn’t have nearly the same inpact. My point being, just because TNG didn’t have the same impact, doesn’t mean it’s fans should enjoy it any less.
#23. “Both DIDN’T have the same impact. TOS has lasted 40 years. They aren’t re-doing TNG special effects. They are doing TOS.”
I think you may be eating those words in the coming months. TNG may well be next on the list for HD facelift and new effects.
I’m gonna be confrontational here by saying that, yes… “Inner Light” was one of the greatest TNG episodes ever. Mostly because it didn’t even deal with the regular characters… Which, on the whole, and in my opinion, were often boring.
There, I said it.
But, with that out there… I have to say that I did enjoy most of TNG… but after a couple of viewings, the joy is gone and it all melds into a blur of cranberry and tan… I have much more enjoyment watching reruns of TOS.
Now you know. :)
“I think you may be eating those words in the coming months. TNG may well be next on the list for HD facelift and new effects. ”
It wouldn’t change anthing since they chose TOS first, for a reason. The impact it has had. Oh, and Shatner’s had Shakespearan background too.
Again, if you like TNG better, there is no reason for you NOT to continue to.
Bigger impact does not equal personal favourite.
Well…so much for not hijacking the thread! I expect the BBKers will be here any minute now…
Of course TOS has had more impact. Good for it. Stop being so defensive, TOS purist people! You’re always so worried that you’re going to lose Trek. You’ll always have TOS’s legacy, so take a chill pill and relax.
At least…until you see what changes are in store for Trek XI! ;-)
Daren, you are doing a lousy job of lobbying for that lucrative TNG remastered gig.
But hey, we like what we like. One man’s cranberry and tan is another man’s crimson and beaver.
Down Harry.
“Of course TOS has had more impact. ”
Well they made a movie series. It’s part of culture, just like Columbo is part of pop culture. How many folks that aren’t Trek fans would ever watch it though? This is where I think TNG crossed that barrier.
oh boy do tng v tos debates bore me
I cant really argue much about the EW list, but maybe the order. I think Tapestry is my fave…or maybe inner light
I think I might watch all the above episodes over the next month for old time’s sake.
Another vote for Conspiracy
“Of course TOS has had more impact. Good for it. Stop being so defensive, TOS purist people! ”
Actually it is the TNG people being defensive about the fact TOS had more impact. They seem to take it as an insult that TOS had bigger impact. IT’s not an insult. It’s a matter of fact. TOS spawned it all and forty years later we’re still talking about TOS. TNG I hardly ever hear about. I still hear references to TOS. It’s apart of pop culture, whereas TNG was just a good science fiction show in the 80’s and 90’s.
“Actually it is the TNG people being defensive about the fact TOS had more impact. ”
Who’s doing that? Give it up with these shadow enemies you’ve created to justify your actions, ross! You’re obviously very insecure. But there’s no need to be here…we’re all fans of Trek!
TOS is classic. TNG is great. Less defensive is good.
This discussion is not smart. People arguing makes me sad. Star Trek is good. Being nice is good. Good people are smart.
That ep is not one of my faves, but I like to throw it in to grind arguments down to a halt.
Every now and then, you need a bad episode to remind people just how good the good episodes are. ;-)
drumhead and contagion
“… it all melds into a blur of cranberry and tan ..”
Hilarious!
I wouldn’t have put First Contact, nor The First Duty on there. The Offspring would be a good pick and so would The Drumhead
Hmmm….
#1 – Inner Light
#2 – BOBW part 1 (for shear impact)
#3 – Yesterday’s Enterprise (that’s the episode that really declared TNG had come into its own as a series)
#4 – All Good Things (best series finale for a Trek series…heck, any series I can think of! If you don’t like it, just be glad they didn’t cut to black “Sopranos” style)
#5 – Chain of Command – seeing Picard trying to hold up under torture was amazing–you see his frailty and his courage at the same time
And some wince inducing acting to.
Re 42: Rubbish, you coward! You must have gotten this episode confused with the T.J. Hooker episode, “The Confession.”
“The Big Goodbye” may not be in the top 10 but it was a good episode. Holodeck malfunctions became a cliche, but this was the first one, not counting TAS’s “The Practical Joker”, although one could also cite TOS’s “Shore Leave” as being essentially a holodeck story with only a different sci-fi conceit. OK, so maybe it was already well on its way to cliche status.
TNG will have had the same inpact to the 9 year olds that watched it, as TOS did to us when we watched it as 9 year olds. TNG still feels like it’s barely ended, far too soon to try and view its impact.
“Who’s doing that? Give it up with these shadow enemies you’ve created to justify your actions, ross! You’re obviously very insecure. ”
And you’re calling ME insecure? Look at your over the top reaction. It’s like Shatner’s acting.
The sooner you admit you’r wrong, the better off we’ll all be.
“But there’s no need to be here…we’re all fans of Trek!”
Then why are you saying I shouldn’t be here? You’re contradicting yourself.
Q Who was really good; though I understand why some like BOBW better. I like Hide and Q also. And Devil’s Due, the Phase II episode.
I agree with #42 – I thought Stewart was the best thing on TNG and he was (and is) tons of fun to watch, but he gave some performances as Picard that were as over the top and campy as anything on the original series. To wit:
Chain of Command: “THERE ARE … FOUR LIGHTS”
Sarek: “BEDLAM! BED-AH-LAAMMMM!!!!!”
Star Trek – First Contact: “The line must be drawn HEE-YAH! This far … no farther! *EYE* will make them PAY for what they’ve done!”
Stewart could chew scenery and play it as big as any other captain of the Enterprise.
And regarding this becoming a TOS vs. TNG thread – the article quotes DeLancie saying “… Patrick Stewart brought a ‘weight’ to TNG that the Original did not have” so, really, what else could one realistically expect people to talk about? Its like expecting people to ignore the pink elephant you put in your living room.
“This discussion is not smart. People arguing makes me sad. Star Trek is good. Being nice is good. Good people are smart”
Unfortunately some in the TNG “crowd” take it as an insult that TOS had a bigger impact on pop culture. Whichever one you prefer is a matter of taste. For me, I like BG. But I can admit it has NO where the impact TOS had and never will.
But people are confusing personal taste with bigger impact.
Those who love TNG should continue to love TNG. The fact it didn’t have the same pop culture impact as TOS, shouldn’t be personal to you. If it does, then you take what is suppose to be entertainment, tooo seriously. Especially you, Sleeper Agent X. Take a pill and stop resorting to name calling
TNG may be less remembered than TOS in the coming years (although I personally doubt it), but I must say TNG certainly seems less a cartoon than TOS was, which is why I tolerate it now more than the old show.
“TNG will have had the same inpact to the 9 year olds that watched it, as TOS did to us when we watched it as 9 year olds. TNG still feels like it’s barely ended, far too soon to try and view its impact. ”
I don’t think so. I respectfully disagree. The Original had iconic characters, and little kids I know today KNOW who they are. When I ask them about Picard and Worf, Data, they look puzzled. If TNG had been an entirely different show (different character names, title) in a different TV universe, then maybe. But because TOS was the first, all the others will always be in its shadow.
I mean the word “Kirk” appears in pop songs. Does Picard?
Re 45:
That’s true, Ty Webb. I think nostalgia for TNG will only grow as time goes on. There’s always a period when a show feels “tired” before it then gets remembered more favorably as a classic. I think we’re in that low point right now with TNG.
“TNG may be less remembered than TOS in the coming years (although I personally doubt it), but I must say TNG certainly seems less a cartoon than TOS was, which is why I tolerate it now more than the old show.”
TOS is certainly “campy” (like many shows of the 60’s). But there is no doubt TOS has stood 40 years later and has had more impact than TNG. They are going back to the TOS characters for the next movie. TNG movies fared the worst at the box office.
Again ,if you Love TNG, then Watch it. The fact TOS had more impact doesn’t mean YOU should watch it.
“That’s true, Ty Webb. I think nostalgia for TNG will only grow as time goes on. There’s always a period when a show feels “tired” before it then gets remembered more favorably as a classic. I think we’re in that low point right now with TNG. ”
Well time will tell, but considering TNG movies have come and gone, it seems very unlikely they will ever revisit it. And there were only 3 solely TNG films (4 if you count Generations), the last performing the worst of all ST films(Nemesis). Solely TOS films were 6 (7 if you count Generations) with another TOS movie being made, right now.
That says lots about impact.
Um, The Best of Both Worlds Part I & II in my opinion are the best two episodes of any Star Trek series ever. While I think Yesterdays Enterprise is a very very good episode, I’d rank it probably number two.
ross, you are so insecure I’m laughing as I type! Sheesh, did I try to compare the impact of TOS and TNG with my last post? Give me a break!
As for revisiting TNG…never say never! If Abrams’s movie is successful and generates its own series, eventually it’ll run its course. Where to turn to next? A re-imagined TNG tv series or movies wouldn’t be out of the question.
To quote the most over-quoted line in all of Trekdom…”There are always possibilities!”
Yes, TOS is different that TNG. It had action, they got dirty, there was loud music cues at every clif hanging commercial break, the sets were colorful, the colors loud, the characters argued, the lighting wasn’t realistic, it was stylistic. The show had style and was good old fashioned action adventure fun.
TNG, on the other hand was comfy, it was talky, it was intelligent, it was subdued, it had an ensemble cast, it was somewhat ordinary.
These two shows are completely different as night in day in every aspect of how they were put together, written, acted and executed. Because of that its very easy to like TNG and not like TOS. Just as one can like Deal or No Deal more than TOS, or some may like Law and Order, but not TOS…..it should come as no surprise as they are nothing alike. With no similarities, why should anyone like them both? I mean they can, but It sure as hell wont be because one reminds them of the other! .
Sleeper Agent X , do you really think writing:
“ross, you are so insecure I’m laughing as I type! Sheesh, did I try to compare the impact of TOS and TNG with my last post? Give me a break!”
makes it so? Where have I shown any insecurity? No where. But you, have a heart attack with anyone saying that TNG had the most impact.
Tis world is full of differing opinions. You need to learn to tolerate them without resorting to name calling. Gene Roddenberry had that vision and so should you.
“As for revisiting TNG…never say never! If Abrams’s movie is successful and generates its own series, eventually it’ll run its course. Where to turn to next? A re-imagined TNG tv series or movies wouldn’t be out of the question.”
No, as it is too predicable. But again, the issue was which had the more impact” TNG or TOS? If it was TNG, why aren’t they making a new movie with new cast, of that? You know the answer and that is, because it didn’t have the same impact as TOS.
“To quote the most over-quoted line in all of Trekdom…”There are always possibilities!” ”
No where have I seen any write anything about any impossibilities so your remark, while one of hope for yourself, is moot.
Learn to tolerate other opinions Sleeper Agent X. And learn not to call those with differing opinions, names. Gene would not approve.
“…..it should come as no surprise as they are nothing alike. With no similarities, why should anyone like them both? I mean they can, but It sure as hell wont be because one reminds them of the other! .”
Yeah, what a shame they wanted to use “Star Trek” in the title. Obviously for marketing purposes. And why was that, I wonder? LOL.
Again, people like, what they like. But for Sleeper Agent X to resort to name calling because I feel TOS had more impact on pop culture is very juvenile.
ross sleeper stop now
What allowed TNG to be remembered AT ALL was that very difference from TOS. No one wanted to see a rehash of TOS. It would have bored critics and insulted fans. TNG was a modern (for the time) reexamining of the Star Trek concept. It was Trek with a 90s flavor. Star Trek, like all the great enduring stories, needs to be reinvented and updated to remain relevant. Bond, Batman, Superman, etc. They are archtypes, themes, and ideas that can be applied to the present forever. Same with Trek. TNG was right for its time and it is the Trek I remember from my youth. I will always see that as “my” Star Trek, like older fans see TOS as “theirs.” Hopefully, the children of TNG generation get to have JJ’s Trek as “theirs”. The tradition continues…
Dam, I hate the Trek vs. Trek pissing matches. More people trying to defend their tastes and tell others what to like.
“Dam, I hate the Trek vs. Trek pissing matches. More people trying to defend their tastes and tell others what to like. ”
To be clear, that is Sleeper Agent X, I have never stated what I prefer. I am smply stating a fact, that TOS had more impact. It is Sleeper Agent X who takes that fact, as an insult and resorted to calling me a name. I have been clear from the beginning, impact does not equate personal taste. If you like TNG more, great. Fill your boots.
You know usually when I post there’s no comment. Which is fine. But this time, I knew once I pushed the “say it” button, someone would have interesting things to say about it. I gotta tell you, I’m very amused at the comment about being close minded; that, I’m not open to new things and want to hurt other fans. Sheesh, can you read anymore stuff into my post? I won’t address this beyond what I’ve said, but here’s what I really think about these two series.
TNG was a great show. In it’s own fashion. It wasn’t necessarily my kind of trek. Sure, I watched it and as it got better, it grew on me. Certainly it’s been mentioned that “The Inner Light” was one of the best episodes of the show. I agree. And there are other very fine episodes, too. But as it’s aged, I’ve seen the episodes a few times, enjoyed ‘em and now have moved on. There’s only so much time I want to spend roaming the stars.
Patrick Stewart is a fine actor in all respects I’d say. However, how you like your drama depends upon the style of escapism you find most enjoyable. Star Trek was much different then TNG in it’s presentation of the, ‘play of the week’. So when I read that Mr. DeLancie thinks his trek has “more weight” to it then the original, I get irritated. What does that mean? Were the original actors inferior? Do production values supercede well told stories? I simply found that comment to ignite thoughts about trek I usually keep to myself. My beef was with DeLancie’s comments, not fellow fans.
If Star Trek didn’t exist, TNG would never have had the ‘head start’ it had. Some would even argue that the show never would have sold on it’s own. TNG was evaluated by it’s comparison to the original. So, to minimize the impact the original show had, is to miss it’s significance.
All the spin-off series had the advantage of concepts developed for the original show; the original went out and did it first and did it basically right. Certainly it’s impact on the public hasn’t been seen with the other shows. Just one indication of that is that it’s lasted all these years….
Star Trek had a lot of things going for it that the subsequent series really didn’t have. Some things were never really replicated. Some superficial aspects were. But the original Star Trek was groundbreaking. Some of that was even recognized when the show was in production. Oh, and in the day, it certainly wasn’t a commercial success, but it’s ratings were better then the spin-offs in sheer numbers.
So I’m not saying all shows after the original Star Trek were not good. Would I articulate my views, comparing and contrasting all of the shows which would evoke great criticism by defending the original Star Trek? Sure. But not here.
I watched all the series, but the original Star Trek holds a special place in my heart.
And if you want to feel the same about your favorite trek show that’s fine with me.
Thomas, I knew exactly what you meant. Neither TOS nor TNG are all that great to me. But I feel you are correct there there is no comparison in terms of impact. TOS had the biggest impact BY MILES!
I think TNG only gained popularity because people were STARVED for more Trek on a regular basis, and it owes its “jump start” to TOS. No doubt.
Heck, I prefer BG to both of them, but I’m not getting upset at the fact it doesn’t have the same impact on pop culture.
The only thing that will make some people happy is if we say “TNG had the biggest impact of them all.” Completely false but I guess they equate what they enjoy with most popular.
“And if you want to feel the same about your favorite trek show that’s fine with me.”
touche
Lets put all this ‘TOS had more impact’ guff into perspective. TOS was made in the 60s, and pretty much bombed while it was on the air for 3 years. It then gathers a strong dedicated fandom during re-runs in the 70s. After the success of Star Wars in the Cinema, Paramount take their franchise and make movies out of it. TNG was born out of Treks strong franchise. TNG enjoys more success on TV than TOS ever did, only in a strange rile revelsal, it’s movie franchise never quite reaches the heights of TOS. Putting that into perspective, I’d say they were pretty much even.
Sorry for the typos, it’s very late here in the UK.
“After the success of Star Wars in the Cinema, Paramount take their franchise and make movies out of it. ”
Actually the movie was in the works before Star Wars was released. In fact, the success of Star Wars nearly stopped it from being becoming a feature film.
“TNG enjoys more success on TV than TOS ever did, ”
IF you’re speaking of while it was on the air (new shows) then yes. But if speaking of syndication, no. IT is the syndication that showed how people TOS really was.
typos are catchy:) I should have written “It is the syndication that showed how popular TOS really was.
Re: #43
You watched TJ Hooker? Why? LOL
All TNG can do 20 years later is glom onto Classic Trek’s legacy. Modern Trek has been run into the ground, that they have had to go back to the original series to start up the franchise again. The 79 original episodes are more memorable than the hundreds of hours of TNG.
#30 “crimson and beaver”
The mind reels……..crimson is enough to make one see red and beaver is enough to make one……well, let’s just say enough is enough!
The weight Stewart brought was largely one of the weight of boredom for me. Although I watched it regularly the first several years it was on, TNG never got me all that excited about it. It is very difficult to watch it now. Stewart, in particular, I thought was very stiff and the tone of the show was much the same. There are those who like it still, and that is good for them, I guess, but I have no need to revisit any of those episodes.
Ross, yes you do understand my post. And I can see from reading other posts many of the people above understand as well. And I completely agree with #18, 27, 48 and 57’s… just say’en..
And Battlestar Galactic is a very cool show, too…. (i.m.h.o.)
IDIC, people. IDIC.
Issue’s
1. TOS – Had and still has alot of inluence of society, but the impact was mainly those who grew up on TOS Trek, when it was still “Young” naturaly it is the Original and it still has a great impact on people.
2. TNG – Has had a great impact on me as I grew up with it. It tackled different issues to what TOS tackled. To me racism was never a big deal, unlike in the 60’s when TOS tackled it, where as gay rights has been, and in it’s own way it has tackled that issue. Many people point to TNG as been the reason why have followed certain career paths.
In my own honest opinion, both shows have had a very similar impact on our society. Both have weak points, both have strengths and both command a great deal of respect.
3. Shatner v Stewart – Both have very different and unique styles of acting, Shatner is for want of a better word a “Showman” he put alot of bravado into his work which gave TOS a “raw” feeling which is enjoyable – while Stewart is a more “sedate” actor, to TNG he gave a wieght of seriousness and thought. Both series had great leads, and in my eyes they are both equaly good and both reflect the times in which they were made. I do not have a favourite as they are both deserving.
4. The list is good, add Q-Who and Conspiracy.
5. Ratings – I always thought that TNG was the highest rated show to ever be in Syndication and it was released straight into syndication to I believe.
6. BSG – It is a very cool show and a product of the times in which it has been made.
In conclusion, there are bashers on both sides, why not give it a rest. As I have said both shows have their strengths and weaknesses.
Well this didn’t start off as a comparison of quality. It started off as a statement of fact-the impact on pop culture and there can be no question TOS has made it. “Beam me Up Scotty (yes I know, never actually said)” “live Long and Prosper”, “raise Shields” All now part of contemporary vernacular. What of TNG is there? “Make it so”? I haven’t heard that since it was on the air.
That’s all Thomas was saying. It’s unfortunate TNG fans consider that an insult as to the quality because it isn’t. It’s simply a observation of fact. Quality is a matter of taste and preference.
Re 76:
Thanks for some clear-headed talk, Realist. This thread sure needs it right about now!
77. ross – September 20, 2007 – Ross I fully agree with you that quality is a matter of taste and preference.
78. Sleeper Agent X – September 20, 2007 – Thanks Sleeper Agent X.
I do feel that both have contributed to our society, yes TOS has many “cathc phrases” and the like and an entire generation was influenced in which careers they would pursue and how they would live their lives.
While TNG admittedly has not had any cath phrase besides Make it so, and We Are the borg…. it to has had a massive impact on the current generation and with the kids who grew up with their “Trek” I always wanted to be like Picard and in many ways I am very similar to Stewart, while my brother always wanted to be like Kirk, and he is personality wise similar to Shatner.
Both shows influenced us equaly.
Nothing can take away the fact that TNG would more than likely not exist without TOS, everything has to have a beginning, just as it will one day have a definitive end, that, I feel that is what truly set TOS apart from TNG. TOS is the beginning.
TOS will always be the show that “started it all,” that’s for sure.
Favourite Trek lines would have to start with I’m a doctor not……. Bless FeForest, my Favourate actor and character from TOS and one of the best TV characters in general.
“Both shows influenced us equaly. ”
That’s the issue, and it isn’t so. The cultural impact of TOS is undeniable. TNG is debatable, at best. People remember it as a good science fiction show, but not as a cultural phenomenon. I mean 40 years says it all.
The Realist , forgot about that one. LOL.
I would say for people growing up in the early Nineties, TNG probably had more of an influence than TOS did. Nothing controversial there!
We’re not talking about what individuals grew up with and when. We’re talking impact on pop culture and there is no comparison. TOS spanned all ages. I mean 40 years later and we’re still talking about. Look at where TOS was 20 years after (where TNG is now). Again, no comparison. TOS was hitting it’s stride. TNG, 20 years later, is just a distant memory.
ross, you don’t get to use the royal “we”! (Talk about compensating….)
Also, you don’t get to dictate the topic…no matter how many times you post the same thing over and over!
Time for you to move on, I think.
what part of stop do you two not understand…you are both essentially spamming, flaming and ignoring warnings
EDIT: reviewing this thread and ross and sleeper agent both banned for a week.
comments to http://trekmovie.com/about/feedback/
TNG was less campy than TOS, can we agree on that?
If Riker stood at an angle of 12 degrees…. it was a good episode! :-)
More strong views, more bans…Star Trek lives!
Can’t wait till we get to the casting of ‘young’ Kirk…the final confirmed production design ethos of the upcoming Movie…and the reviews of the actual Movie itself… May this site live long and prosper. :)
#88-
“TNG was less campy than TOS, can we agree on that? ”
Nope. Camp has to be elements that were put in by the creators to be funny or ridiculous on purpose. “Camp” is by design, just like the Batman TV series or the second and 3rd seasons of Lost in Space. Star Trek’s intent, despite what some percieve, was to be serious, so the term “camp” just doesn’t apply.
Whoa!
Picard to security. This thread has been HIJACKED!
(or Kirk to security. Whichever your preference!) :)
Dirty Daren Doc you are my hero!!!
Incidentally any chance of remastering a scene from TOS, any episode will do, of a bridge scene adding new displays to replace the paper overhead monitors??? Even a still would be cool!!
#63 Ross….
I suspect that you’ll read, even though you are banned.
I’ll make myself clear.I don’t care which side of Trek you were arguing from…either one of you. The argument gets old and pointless in every thread it appears in.
#93, Lord Garth
If I were to do a remastering of a bridge scene, the only difference would be to make the images moving… a still wouldn’t look any different… I would just make the graphics move.
Thanks for the illiterative nickname. Oh, wait, that’s ALliterative. :)
jonboc you’ve never heard of unintentional camp?
although this is a great list, i have a few additions:
Redemption 1/2
Descent 1/2
Frame of Mind
Future Imperfect
Parallels
Cause and Effect
Relics – gotta love scotty
and finally, the most under-rated episode (cue drum roll)
GAMBIT
Thanks Double D
That would be quite cool!!! To see the funky airbrushy space scenery moving on the displays. The pictures have charm and are iconic on the displays but the crinkled paper really is more prominant now that the prints are even sharper.
I’d love to see it
#92 … My preference is Kirk. :) Anyway, stand down from red alert. Enemy hijacker has been neutralized (actually, placated with an autographed photo of Wil Wheaton)! Secure from gereral quarters. LOL!
I preferred TNG overall but love both. But Shatner and Nimoy were both excellent lead actors of their day. We all like to make fun of Shat’s mannerisms and such but one has to admit he did a couple of Twilight Zone eps that were very powerful. He was and remains a real talent. I personally think he does better when he has a strong director keeping his comedy from going over the top but when it comes to drama, he’s one of the more memorable performers of the past 50 years.
Not knocking Stewart–I love him as well.
Again, for me, this whole TOS-is-so much-better-than-TNG stuff is pretty stale. They both have their place. It is very true TNG would never have existed without the power of TOS. However, JJ Abram’s movie would never be seeing the light of day had TNG tanked (nor would DSP, VOY and ENT). I still believe the best of TNG is equal to the best of TOS. And the worst of TNG is better than the worst of TNG.
100…WHAT??????
Should I spell it phoenetically for the obvious-impaired?
You dare challenge Lord Garth?? Oooh, this is going to be good!! My Lord, we beseech you to smite this wacko!
Yes spell it Genius, You said the worst of TNG is better than the worst of TNG (read your own post before you attack) and Again … What???
Perhaps the Admiral should hire a proof reader
And thanks Brother Ballz!!!!!
My Lord, has my small gesture of support …..er….um….earned me a “mouth hug” from the lovely Marta?
I think the worst of TOS is certainly more fun than the worst of TNG. Bad TOS still had an irresistably cheesy charm, mainly due to the larger-than-life performers – especially the Big Three, who ALWAYS looked like they were having a blast. Bad TNG was just borrring.
To put it in movie terms, give me The Final Frontier over Insurrection ANY day!
Brother Ballz may have his way with Marta and her twin sister Barta.
Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you going to tell me that Marta and Barta are so old they were around during the signing of the Magna Carta?
Lord Gart and Harry Ballz.
You guys are champs!
Thank you, T.R….it’s nice to know our comments don’t go unnoticed!
Tsk, tsk..
Shadow, you should see a doctor about that stutter….
#111 Shadow…. back to being “superior” again? Your silence has been far more informative.
How low can the Shadow go?? The Shadow knows!!
Bwahahahaha……………….