Shatner Thinks Pine ‘Looks Good’ + Other TOS Stars Talk New Trek Stars | TrekMovie.com
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Shatner Thinks Pine ‘Looks Good’ + Other TOS Stars Talk New Trek Stars October 22, 2007

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Shatner,ST09 Cast , trackback

William Shatner may not be happy that he hasn’t (yet) been asked to be in the new Star Trek, but he does seem to like the choice of the new Kirk, Chris Pine


TOS Stars @ Scream Awards
This weekend Shatner attended the the Spike Scream awards along with Leonard Nimoy and rest of the TOS crew. As you would imagine each was asked by media outlets for their thoughts on the new stars of Star Trek, and they were all very positive. Walter Koenig told IESB that Anton Yeltsin was 13 years younger than he was when he started, and George Takei noted that John Cho is 7 years older than he was while Nichelle Nichols seemed confident that Zoe Saldana could ‘pull off’ wearing one of those red mini skirts.

The new Spock, Zachary Quinto was also at the event, and had this to say about the new film:

…we start filming in just a couple of weeks. It’s a really exciting time. It’s an incredible honor and I feel really humbled by it and really grateful that I’m doing it with the support of Leonard Nimoy and the original cast.

shatnimoyscream.jpg
Kirk and Spock Classic at Spike Scream Awards (TMZ.com)

For more Trek related pictures, video and more from the event – goto:
IESB, WhatsOnTV, TMZ, and CBR
[NOTE: more links will be added as more reports appear online]

OMG! Shat Snubbed By Lucas?!?
check out this headline


…this proves that you must believe everything you read on the Internet

Video courtesy of ShatnerVision

Comments

1. steve - October 22, 2007

I don’t care what anyone else says about the TOS stars (Shatner included), but I’ve always found them to be a classy group (in public anyway).

2. Harry Ballz - October 22, 2007

Is this Shatner’s way of saying, “bring me on board for the movie and I’ll play nice”??

3. Mazzer - October 22, 2007

Well that sounded sincere, didn’t it? You can almost see him spitting under his breath.

4. DavidJ - October 22, 2007

I’m sure it’s gotta feel pretty weird to them to see new actors playing their parts now.

5. Pragmaticus - October 22, 2007

Paul, thank you so much! You made my week.

6. Shatner_Fan_2000 - October 22, 2007

Way to go, BIll! Doesn’t look like he has any animosity to me. Interesting that he zeroed in on what many of us were saying too – the Kirk actor should have a theatrical background.

So far I’m liking Pine and I want him to be a big success. But we love you, Bill, and you’ll always be THE Captain!

7. shatner or bust - October 22, 2007

Shatner now NEEDS to be in this film….

otherwise fans will be like this in cinemas Xmas day 08 :

“OH Man i bet shatners at the start somehow”..*film starts* “oh christ theres Nimoy as Spock!!! *fans ejaculate in unison*…oohhhh man…wait wheres shatner? no shatner?…ok…thats ok fair enough he’ll be Kirks father..*half an hour later* “no shatner as kirks old man? they chose ***** ****** instead?..ok no worries I know what they’ve done – he’ll be at the end in a suprise cameo…*film ends* “WHAT THE F**K ?!? NO SHATNER!!! HOW THEF**K COULD THEY !?! WHAAAAAAAAAAA THIS IS THE WORST FILM EVER WHHHHAAAAAAAAA !!!”

*gets on mobile to tells friends not to bother seeing it/goes on trekweb, trekmovie.com etc and posts about how childhood has been raped*

8. The Master - October 22, 2007

H e was playing nice, but seemed a bit irritated. like ok you damn trekkies leave me alone with this movie already. wht will be will be its not up to me attitude.
Personally I hope they find away to get him in. They are having Kirk’s parent in the movie and Pike, plus some other fleet Captin, could this be Commodore April, Comodore Decker, or Admiril T’Pol?
The point is let get the rest of these flushed out along with what the F or the modifications to the Enterprise then lets work about the Shat.

I hope that one of the surprises is that Nimoy will do double duty as Sarek ( not holding my breath)

9. The Master - October 22, 2007

*LOL* at number 7 thatis so f-ing true. *LOL*

10. ShawnP - October 22, 2007

Sounds like an endorsement to me.

And #7: “fans ejaculate in unison” …OMG, too funny.

11. Pragmaticus - October 22, 2007

7 – I don’t think it’ll matter much in terms of ticket sales, honestly. All the diehard trekkies are going to go see it opening day/weekend no matter what.

12. DavidJ - October 22, 2007

Agreed. By that point fans will know definitively whether Shatner is in the movie or not (whether it’s announced or just leaks out), and won’t be surprised if he doesn’t show up on screen.

13. T Negative - October 22, 2007

The Shat was respectful but you could tell that it was killing him to talk about it. Inside he was thinking “my God, I am no longer Kirk!! ” “SSSHHH——T!!!!!!!!” I have got to be in this movie!!”

Or, I could be wrong and he realized long ago this day would eventually come and he is fine with it.

14. Classic trek - October 22, 2007

sadly, to me shatner does not look interested in this issue. may be he’s very dissapointed not to have been asked ( or so were told) and is upset. on the other hand abrahms says he is ‘deserately looking for away to get him in it’. so its confusing. Shatner needs to be in this movie…badly. you cant do it properly without him. there would always be that hanging over it. nimoy and shatner must be signed up together. PLEASE

15. Adam Cohen - October 22, 2007

Shatner is looking good! Is he trying to lose weight so he can fit in the space suit again?

16. DJT - October 22, 2007

Hmmmm….

“Galloping around the universe is a game for the young, doctor.”

I wonder if Mr. Shatner realizes the baton passing is for real this time, and that there is a chance he might not be included in the ceremonies.

Yeah. They better fit him in into the movie somehow. It’s the human thing to do.

17. DavidJ - October 22, 2007

Wow, Nimoy is looking really thin and gaunt in that pic (well, more than usual anyway).

18. Jon - October 22, 2007

I love William Shatner, I really do… he will always be Captain Kirk, but eh… he didn’t have to sign up to killing himself off in Generations. I remain hopeful eitherway, if Nimoy is in there’s gotta be room for Shat, surely- this could be the last opportunity for him to be Kirk again. Nimoy has got his…

If only this was really a ‘re-imagining’ or whatever, instead of another attempt to wedge something into the bloated and wheezing continuity. Generations? Did it really happen? It contradicts some stuff in TNG, can’t STXI contradict some stuff in it? :p

19. JPH - October 22, 2007

Here’s how to keep Shatner in the movie:

Have him do the classic “Space, the final frontier..” narration at the end of the film as, I suspect, the new crew begins their five year mission. It might not be a lot for him to do, but it would be majestic.

One of the toughest elements of the Kirk character for Pine to equal in quality compared to Shatner will be voice-over narrations — if, that is,they’re part of the new movie. As a framing device, Kirk’s “Captain’s Log” entries were always beautifully spoken.

Shatner would have been a great radio actor.

20. Luke Montgomery - October 22, 2007

“Galloping around the universe is a game for the young, doctor.”

Indeed. Look kids, Shatner being or not being in the movie is not going to dent sales or boost sales in any relevant way. I love the guy (even his music) but let’s not overstate things. Anyone here who is bitching that Billy won’t be in the film is still going to go see it several times and by the dvd and download it, and…

Shat has made millions from this role. Millions many times over. If money weren’t the issue and it was just that the guy wanted to be in it even as a small way as a send off and final connection to something that has been a major part of his life he would not be saying that he would NOT do a cameo. So ego and cash are involved here and it’s sad for him but he’s just not esential to the mix.

Let’s move on.

That being said, I want him back for at least a sentimental cameo and moment with Leonard even it’s just him as a recording as a captian’s log or something.

But again, let’s move on.

We as fans are being given something amazing in the rebirth of something so important to us… TOS. This is not some Berman hacked up cookie-cutter spin-off. THIS IS TOS!!! Let’s focus on what’s ahead and the possibilities of how this may continue for many more years. We don’t have Shat back but we do have KIRK and the rest of the gang. It’s all pretty amazing when you consider that this was a canceled television show from 40 f-ing years ago.

I’ve been involved with the series on a very tangental way with having friends work on the TNG – ENT shows both in front of and behind the camera. I’ve written for Star Trek Communicator and hung out on the sets during filming (and swipped many a sweet prop from starships and spacestations) so,in addition to be a fan, I’ve had a real connection to what has been done from a personal point of view. With that being said and my biases that come out of that, I think we are in for something with hi snew film and team that will wipe the deck withwhat we’ve had on the small and big screen for the last 20 years. This is huge and the team behind it is killer.

Can we stop the Shatner talk and hand-wringing and focus on the coolness that is about be bestowed on us?

What are you going to do when you like Pine better than Shatner as Kirk? Get ready for it. I have a feeling that that will be the case.

21. NCC-73515 - October 22, 2007

has anyone noticed… when you look at the startrek.com main page you’ll see pictures of urban and pike… well, compare the two :D

suggestion for new poll: should the 1701-E have a cameo apperance?

22. Luke Montgomery - October 22, 2007

To rephrase what I just said and sum it up…

SHUT UP ABOUT SHATNER.

23. trektacular - October 22, 2007

I feel bad for the Shat…

24. flier1701 - October 22, 2007

I was watching the “Captain’s Log” series, specifically what Shatner had to say about Captain Kirk. He said that the one thing he tried to keep consistent was a sense of wonder and adventure. Once I started looking for it, it was certainly there. I hope that Shatner and Pine can sit down and talk about the character, so at least that one part stays intact.

However, Shatner is the new Sean Connery; beloved as the character, but no longer in the part. He will always be the best James Kirk, but at the end of the day, James Kirk is just another character, and another skin can inhabit him. I don’t care weather or not Shatner is in this film or not. I would like very much to see him come back as the indomitable Captain James T. Kirk. However, I came to terms with the fact that this was unlikely a long time ago. My focus during this endeavor has been to preserve the characters, and not the actors. Granted, the actors played these parts for 25 years, and have become a part of each other. However, they are just characters; and the lesser ones (Sulu, Uhura, Checkov and others) still have a large canvas to explore. Kirk, Spock and McCoy, and to a lesser extent Scotty have less free space, and my hope is that elements of their characters are still there with these new actors in place.

I hope that Pine plays Kirk with that sense of “wow” that William Shatner talked about in those videos. If he does, and manages to preserve the character while bringing something new, I, as a fan, will be incredibly happy.

25. Stanky McFibberich - October 22, 2007

I am amazed at the things people can read into a short video clip like this.

re:20. Luke Montgomery – October 22, 2007
“What are you going to do when you like Pine better than Shatner as Kirk? Get ready for it. I have a feeling that that will be the case.”

GoooWaaaaHaaaaaHaaaaaHaaaaaHaaaa :)

26. DJT - October 22, 2007

Oh SH*T! i got my TWOK quote wrong. All those fires outside must impairing my memory. That’s it. I’m demoting myself to waste extraction.

27. Jay - October 22, 2007

Didnt he sign a contract giving him some control or leeway in the decision of who was to play the young James Tiberius Kirk???

Curious

28. Stanky McFibberich - October 22, 2007

and for Pete’s sake quit calling this movie TOS.

TFSTM maybe ;)

29. Dennis Bailey - October 22, 2007

I don’t even call the TOS-based movies 1-6 “TOS.” There are only about eighty hours of TOS, and never will be any more.

Good for Shatner. As others have said, very classy attitude.

30. Jon - October 22, 2007

That piece was rehearsed.Especially when He looked at Pine’s shot (for the first time?). You can’t blame Him either.There must be a great deal of mixed feelings on His part. I admire the effort.It’s going to take Bill a little while.He’ll be the better for it.Especially when He separates Kirk from His own “identity”.

31. dalek - October 22, 2007

He doesn’t look bitter at all. He’s just speaking candid in the very same way he does on all his vids. He’s chatting to his daughter just like you would chat around the coffee table to a friend. If he’d have had a grin he would have been accused of over-reacting to hide his jealousy. There was nothing in that vid that didn’t come across as genuine.

He has nothing to lose by saying “this kid looks awful”. As far as he’s aware Star Trek is through with him. But thankfully, the Shat is not through with Star Trek.

32. Classic trek - October 22, 2007

if shatner isnt in it then id rather they (nimoy and shat) werent in it at all. then we might have a completely new start for this new crew. i of course will go and see it if shatner isnt in it – goes without saying- but if he was then for me at least, it would be the icing on the cake. to see nimoy and shat as kirk and spock one more time would be very emotional indeed.

ys you can do the film with out them but if its nimoy only id feel like something was always missing. wouldnt it be great to see the original capt kirk meet his younger version. now that really is handing the baton over instead of that nonsense in ‘Generations’. cheers
Greg
UK

33. Jon (30) - October 22, 2007

30 Jon .Different than 18 Jon.

34. Luke Montgomery - October 22, 2007

just made a comment and not seeing it posted….hmmm?

35. Robo- Cop - October 22, 2007

I’ve always said and believed that it would make a HUGE difference if they were to rename the entire cast. Just their names not the actors. Why do they insist on using the names of a old cast with new actors? Sounds like nothing but trouble to me. After all you wouldn’t call Chocolate Vanilla would you? It is what it is and its as simple as that as I don’t think they should try to recast a old crew with new actors. Also….why must they use a Constellation class starship? I would certainly think that they would consider using a different or perhaps even a new ship that we never seen before except in blueprints. Well we can only hope that the story is good enough to deter us away from this obvious blunders.

36. Chris - October 22, 2007

32. I agree, without Shatner in it but Nimoy there, there would be something missing. Look at the Kirk scenes in Generations (as bad as the film was), I enjoyed them but it wasn’t right, especially at the beginning not having Spock. I feel they may make that same mistake again. :(

And I really hope this brings about a new era for Trek on TV too. I’m gagging for a Section 31 show with bashir in it (it’ll never happen tho).

37. Trekkie, Trekker - Hell, I'm both - October 22, 2007

My guess:
William Shatner is used to top billing. The older Kirk role isn’t top billing; it’s a cameo, designed for him to appear after the timeline is altered (thus enabling technology updates, different NCC-1701 changes, costume tweaks, etc.).

Shatner is frustrated as this is the LAST time he will be appearing as Kirk. He wants more lines, more onscreen presence, etc. – and the script doesn’t call for it.

And Leonard Nimoy is getting the spotlight. Not a cameo, but a meaty role.

38. DavidJ - October 22, 2007

Can we PLEASE all agree that all the Shatner arguments have been MADE already??

We really don’t need another 500 posts here repeating the same exact points.

39. Bono Luthor - October 22, 2007

#11 With respect, the die hard Trek fans are not really the point. They will be there because it says Star Trek on the tin. Some of these people may have even enjoyed Voyager for crying out loud!

Shatner reaches out beyond that. To casual fans, to non Trek geeks, to people who have fond memories of Kirk and Spock from their childhood but have not followed every episode of every weaker spin off since.

Again, not trying to offend, this is just my opinion, but Kirk and Spock (Shatner and Nimoy) makes this a HUGE event.

Spock on his own? Great for Trekkers but not reaching out for the larger cultural impact that they SO want this film to have.

Keep the faith.

40. Harry Ballz - October 22, 2007

When Shatner finally gets around to talking about somebody other than himself, he really exudes amazing enthusiasm, doesn’t he? (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

41. Dennis Bailey - October 22, 2007

There’s no evidence at all that William Shatner is a big box office draw at the movies, sorry. If that were the case, he’d have headlined more than a few – but in fact, for a quarter of a century he’s been a movie star *only* in films that were directed primarily at “Trekkers” – that is, old-style “Star Trek” movies.

42. Kirk's Girdle - October 22, 2007

RE; #37
My guess:
William Shatner is used to top billing. The older Kirk role isn’t top billing; it’s a cameo, designed for him to appear after the timeline is altered

Sort of like “The Search for Spock” in reverse, where we wait 2 hours to see an newly-old Spock quizzically greet his friends.

I also have to admit, I really would rather this movie were starting fresh, not as a reboot, or re-imagining, but simply being presented as previously untold adventures of Kirk and Company, without all the continuity, timeline, and canon baggage the introduction of old Spock carries with it. I’d prefer to see this movie as if there were no TOS to compare it to, as may no doubt be the case for many of the younger viewers who might just see this film. It really needs to stand on its own.

Originally, I would have thought Kirk could have done an intro narration, ending in something like “I am James T. Kirk and this is my story….”, but I’m not completely certain any more that Kirk is actually the star, at least this time around.

43. Jon (30) - October 22, 2007

He’s not (a box office draw).Star Trek is.Outside of Star Trek He’s not box office.Star Trek was a unique situation.

44. Bono Luthor - October 22, 2007

#22 No. Never.

Still keeping the faith.

45. Kuvagh - October 22, 2007

If it were up to me, I might have Shatner and all of the original players appear in one or more cast “bridge crew” photos in future-Spock’s domicile. Unless he’s still living in ancient Romulan catacombs or something. Such evidence of his presence would be unwise in that case.

Imagine what it would be like if they rebuilt the set for Kirk’s San Francisco apartment, which Starfleet has kept unmolested for 90 years, and Spock went there to reminisce or find some item or important journal entry.

46. jonboc - October 22, 2007

#38-
“Can we PLEASE all agree that all the Shatner arguments have been MADE already??

We really don’t need another 500 posts here repeating the same exact points. ”

And why not? This is a Shatner themed story and a Shatner themed thread. Let both sides debate to their hearts content. If someone doesn’t like it they can hop over to the “Gamesters” story. This IS the place for such discussion.

It’s only when this kind of talk gets going in non-related threads that it’s a problem.

47. Richard Daystrom - October 22, 2007

I have only posted here once or twice. I check out the site everyday and read with great interest the responses from everyone about this and that. Here lately it is about THE Shat not being in the movie. (As Far As WE Know!). I have been a fan since I was a kid and caught the “ORIGINAL” series in it’s first run on NBC. I watched the other series and in my opinion none have ever come close to the ORIGINAL. I would love nothing more for Shatner to be in it the new movie, but I think for the most part he shot himself in the foot by being in “Generations” and allowing them to kill Kirk off. That whole movie was stupid as hell anyway. If JJ and Co. can come close to the original as far as story telling I say bring it on. And for all you doomsayers who are whining, you better hope this movie is great or I believe it will be the nail in the coffin and kill the franchise for 10 years or more.

48. DRE - October 22, 2007

I asked this question in the wrong thread, but I’m really interested to know the answer.

Let me ask this question to the Pro-BBKers/Anti-TNG crowd.

Would you accept the inclusion of at least two TNG cast member cameos if it meant the undoing of Kirk’s death in this film?

I ask this question because some of the most venomous TNG haters (Who just absolutely wish beyond anything that Gene had never created them, and in most cases refuse to acknowledge that he did create them) are those who are most loyal to Shatner/Kirk, and I wondered just how much would they accept to get Kirk back, even if it meant the inclusion of their “Enemy.”

Also, which TNG character do you think could feasibly fit into the Nimoy scenes?

49. DavidJ - October 22, 2007

#46

It’s not really “debate” though. It’s just people stating their position on the matter… the same way it’s been stated countless times before.

But oh well. Clearly there’s no stopping it anyway. :)

50. Daniel Broadway - October 22, 2007

I must be one of the only people on Earth who likes Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, and Star Trek Generations. They aren’t the best, but I think they each have enjoyable moments in them.

51. Tim Handrahan - October 22, 2007

Shat still wants in!! Let Him!

52. Kobayashi Maru - October 22, 2007

“Beware of Romulans bearing gifts!”
There’s more to this than meets the blog…

53. Classic trek - October 22, 2007

talking about shatner and nimoy in this movie is a BIG deal. they were the heroes who played a big part in launching the whole star trek bandwagon. you cant really complain when lots of different people want to share their feelings on this subject. its important to them. they have been a huge part of the star trek legend for so long. its only natural it is raising such passion on this board. its probably the last time they will ever potentially portray the iconi characters they helped bring to life.
cheers
greg (UK) classic trek

54. JCool - October 22, 2007

How did the Shat know about Pine’s theatrical background?

Wow! I had no idea.

*Sigh*
Google should be my friend. :(

55. Richard Daystrom - October 22, 2007

48) I am not a “Venomous TNG Hater”. TNG had it’s moments, but I always felt for the most part they were a bunch of pussies. No TNG in the next movie. What happen to the argument of Canon in ST11?? Kirk is dead. Get over it. Kirk was not a god. We all die!

56. TK - October 22, 2007

#48 DRE

I don’t know if I can include my self in the Pro-BBKers/Anti-TNG crowd, I really haven’t watched that much TNG (it didn’t catch my attention as much as TOS did, so I just stopped watching- doesn’t mean that its worse or better, just personal taste i guess) so I am not particularly anti-TNG. But I wouldn’t mind being counted as a Pro_BBKer.

Anyway, personally I wouln’t mind if there were a few TNG cast members included. Don’t mind who. Indeed I wouldn’t mind if there were characters from the other series either. I don’t mind whatever means they use to bring back kirk, *as long as it is not a silly, unbelieavable one*.

57. Roberto Magana - October 22, 2007

I heard Shatner being eyed to play Kirk’s father.

58. Viking - October 22, 2007

#21…..sweet Jesus……you’re RIGHT! :D We have found our Pike! Get Sinese on the blower – we got a vacant role to fill! LOL

59. Ruthless Nate - October 22, 2007

Interesting that nobody seems to care what the other actors have to say about the people playing the characters they have carried with them for forty years. Takei seems a little more enthusiastic about Cho, as was previously stated, but we’ve heard little about what Nichols and Koenig think of Saldana and Yelchin.

60. Roberto Magana - October 22, 2007

Sorry for double posting, but this way he could appear in more than one movie and perhaps if he grew some facial hair it wouldn’t confuse the audience that are in the know that he played Kirk. This is better idea than brining back to life for a little cameo…

61. NZorak - October 22, 2007

#18

Hit the nail on the head. Nimoy was asked to be in Generations so they could kill him off and he refused. Now Spock is alive and he can reprise the role. It’s amazing how that works, isn’t it?

I really think Generations would have been a much better movie if Shatner would have not been in it. It should have been a Next Gen movie and not tried to bother tying up any loose ends from the original cast. If there’s anything positive about it at all, it’s simply that James Doohan and Walter Koenig got to reprise their roles one last time.

Personally I could care less whether the Shat is in the movie. Let’s say through some miracle they used this movie to resurrect his character. Great! Kirk lives. So what? It isn’t like we’re going to see him as Kirk again after this. Even if they do make more, it isn’t likely that Shatner himself will be around to continue playing the role.

I prefer to leave the Generations fate of Kirk apocryphal and consider Star Trek VI the final word on that crew. It was a classy way to end it, so why screw it up?

62. Roberto Magana - October 22, 2007

I changed my mind after reading NZorak post. Keep the Shat retired from Star Trek.

63. Xai - October 22, 2007

So Shatner thinks he’s ok. I was sooooo worried.

“Debate” that.

64. JCool - October 22, 2007

I heard George Clooney bowed out of “White Jazz”

65. Xai - October 22, 2007

61. NZorak – October 22, 2007

EXACTLY!

66. NZorak - October 22, 2007

#50
It may surprise you after my last comment, but I also like both of those movies. V is definitely a watchable movie, even if it raises a number of troubling questions. The “God” character is clearly not God, any more than Q or Trelane, or any number of other characters we’ve met that are mysterious and all knowing.

Generations had some good stuff in it. I’m one of those people who doesn’t think Data implanting the emotions chip was a bad thing. Finally dealing with the Durhas b*tches was also definitely worthwhile. I loved Malcolm McDowell, so my only real complaint with the movie is the pointless way they killed Kirk, and the fact that the ending focused so much on Picard and ignored other members of the cast.

67. Ty Webb - October 22, 2007

I like Star Trek V. More than I like Generations.

Generations is a film with some good scenes and sequences but they don’t glue together to make a decent film at all.

68. Kobayashi Maru - October 22, 2007

Generations was a half-baked attempt for Berman & co. to drive the last nail in the coffin of classic Trek and get out of big Gene’s shadow.
When Nimoy and Kelley passed, the script’s lines didn’t even change to suit Scotty and Chekov, just the names.
What the writers couldn’t anticipate was the over all affection for the TOS characters, and they will be immortal in all their chronological incarnations.
It’ll be real interesting to see if the retooled franchise can sustain full circle to the so-called “movie era” all over again.
Those have my favorite uniforms anyway!

69. DRE - October 22, 2007

Shatner looks generally hurt to not be in the film, but if it is his own need to be in a bigger capacity then someone is gonna have to break somewhere, either him or Paramount or JJ.

JJ has to do what’s best for his film, and not compromise it in anyway.

Paramount has to do what makes sense business wise as well as stick by JJ’s vision for the film, even if that means not altering the script they approved and green lit.

Shatner has to do what is best for himself and not take anything less than what he expects (Creatively and financially) for what could be the last in something he feels totally responsible for.

Who is right and wrong in this case?

70. Penhall - October 22, 2007

Shatner just cant win with some of you.

He says that the new guy should do a good job and is supportive of the choice, and you think he’s faking it….

He says he’s disappointed about not being in the new movie and you think he needs it just get over it….

71. Aaron R. (Sisko FAN 427 @ WE LOVE SISKO . NET . ORG . COM . COM) - October 22, 2007

Do we have the composite of what we think the whole cast will look like as their characters together yet? Maybe that nice shot of all of them in uniform on the ole bridge???

Just think it’d be coooool. . . . . . .

Aaron R.

72. StillKirok - October 22, 2007

#48–OF COURSE! The whole BBK movement seems to be about getting the character back. I know I wouldn’t care if TNG characters were there if Kirk came back. TNG is NOT the enemy.

The writers of TNG made TOS their enemy. But TNG really overall only sucked in the movies. The TV show was decent.

Shatner has been royally mistreated. Yes, he screwed up by agreeing to kill Kirk. But that’s not a mistake he needs to pay for the rest of his life. It’s sci-fi. It can happen. It’s Star Trek. It SHOULD happen.

Shatner is showing a lot more class than the producers, who didn’t even call him.

73. Jeff - October 22, 2007

lol! The Shat is awesome

74. Marbals - October 22, 2007

I watched the Chris Pine interview from Access Hollywood

He seems funny and charming.

I like how he made fun of his huge head.

Video
http://www.accesshollywood.com/news/ah7134.shtml

75. Xai - October 22, 2007

#72 Stillkirok

Shatner was mistreated how?
He and Nimoy were consulted, (now many months ago, reported here) the story was written and it’s been stated that they’d love to have him in the movie if it can be made to work.
He may yet be cast. But if the story isn’t about Kirk “coming back”, what is the point?

76. Pragmaticus - October 22, 2007

74 – Wow. He just has the right energy for Kirk, not to mention having the resemblance to Shatner.

Paul – please, talk to Bill, and see if Bill’s people and Chris Pine’s people can arrange for some kind of meeting between the two. I want to see them interacting with each other in the worst way. Invite Chris Pine to Bill’s house, do a ShatnerVision. It would be amazing.

77. USS SANTA - October 22, 2007

#28 I agree, Shatner and Nimoy both have portrayal rights in this movie. Shatners just being coy as usual.

78. Harry Ballz - October 22, 2007

You’re suggesting the Shat can be coy
That trait is more prone to Nimoy
The Shat can be cagey
And act over stagey
But coy is not a Shat ploy!

79. Robo twerp - October 22, 2007

Just saw this.

#35

PLEASE SHUT UP,

80. Leonel - October 22, 2007

#25 – I’m so with you on that. Sounds like you and I saw the same video. I’m not understanding where everyone is coming from with regards to his commentary on Chris Pine. At first I wasn’t going to watch it in an attempt to move on and I’m glad I sat down to watch it.

Moving on.. :-)

81. Robo- Cop - October 22, 2007

Ok….this isn’t related to the headline topic but I was wondering:
Will the original (pilot) episode of the Cage be included in the 1st
season of Star Trek on DVD – HD next month? I’m not sure but
has it been aired already on TV?
Thanks for all the help.
Have a nice week!

82. toddk - October 22, 2007

I was really hoping that shatner would be in the next star wars prequel..he was going to play the part of george lucas…hahhaha…hahhahaha…um….

83. JCool - October 22, 2007

I hope the new movie’s successful

or the future of Star Trek

is

D. E. A. D

:(

84. Mr Deltoid - October 22, 2007

I must be honest… I think it is a mistake to put Shatner or Nimoy in this film. There is no need for it except from a sentimental standpoint. If the movie is good, We’re all going to see the movie a couple of times wether or not Shatner and Nimoy are in it. All it will do is add an unnecessary 5 or 10 minutes to the movie. If we are going to buy these new actors in the roles I think we should just start fresh.

Haven’t we seen enough of Shatner and Nimoy? Do we really want to see an old, fat Kirk. Don’t get me wrong, I love Shatner… I’d just like to remember him as the younger, pre Star Trek 5 Captain. And by the way, isn’t Kirk Dead?

And frankly having Chekov in this thing is another huge mistake. Other than Walter Koenig, nobody really gives a crap about Chekov. And if he is going to be some sort of teen wunderkind…. I have just two words… Wesley Crusher.

What ends up happening is that the writer is forced to spend a lot of time giving all these secondary characters their moment in the sun… at the expense of good story telling. Maybe JJ will surprise me and pull it off. But frankly its hard enough watching an ongoing show like Lost with 20 different characters all getting their own storylines. Imagine what it will be like in a two hour movie.

I’d be more interested in meeting a young Gary Mitchell… or a young Captain Pike.

Just my two cents. I hope I’m wrong and JJ makes it work. But I am doubtful.

85. Iowagirl - October 23, 2007

You wanted Shatner endorsing Pine – there you are. Now it’s your turn to shut up for a change.

86. Kirky - October 23, 2007

Bring back the Shat in a starring role not a cameo!!!

87. StillKirok - October 23, 2007

#75–how about by the fact that he wants in, was told they wanted him, and they didn’t even bother to write him in the script? They keep using his name, but they aren’t actually doing anything else. Both Shatner and Shatner’s fans have been royally mistreated by the producers, and yes, it’s going to backlash at the box office.

The story doesn’t have to focus on Kirk’s return to use Shatner. Yes, it does have to show Kirk post-Generations, but it need not be Search For Kirk.

Nimoy barely was in ST3.

88. The Realist - October 23, 2007

My wish list –
Seeing a cast member from the TNG era – Riker and the Titan as an example – probably wont happen
An enterprise cast member – T’Pol maybe – Probably wont happen…oh well I’ll get over it.
William Shatner – Doing the Space the final frontier – voice over, he and Patrick Stewart have got to be two of the best voice over artists ever!

Realtiy – One of the big failures of Star Trek was that after 18 years an 4 tv shows, some running at the same time, and 5 movies (Including – TUC) Trek was old and tired. Although I liked all TNG era shows and ENT and I actualy like Berman and Braga, I still felt Trek should be rested for a while. Trek was worked to death by it’s owners, Paramount, they demanded new shows and movies from the Creative team and to their credit they did try to hand over to a new creative team, but I doubt that would have helped.

Paramount has realised that it flogged the Trek horse close to death, now they are making up for it. The “cow” that once made Paramount hundreds of millions of dollars is getting what it never really had, money, re-invested in it. They have realised that Trek is truly unique, it inspired people like Lucas and alot of writers actors etc, TOS and it’s spin offs have inspired not one but many Generations of Scientists, Politicians, explorers teachers etc. I think they also know that Trek is more than just William Shatner, now before people lynch me, no one can take away the fact that Shatner created Kirk and that Kirk is Iconic and as a result Shatner is Iconic and I would not presume to argue with anyone about his contribution to the Trek Univers that he helped create, but if Trek is to survive we must accept that Shatner may not be a part of it any more. It thrived with out William Shater in TNG and I have no doubt that with a true and compelling story it will flourish once again, do I have doubts about this movie? Absolutely. Will having Shatner in it help me have more confidence? No. I am hopeful about this movie but I am worried that they can not pull off a movie set in the TOS era with the Original characters, but I hope they can.

At the end of the day people who truly love and enjoy Star Trek will support this movie and go see it, as Star Trek is not just one man, and it is not just the “property” of one generation, Trek truly belongs to the future as that it is where it always looks, to the future. Trek will hopefuly be around for another 40 years, and for many years to come Shatner will always be remembered as the man who helped start the legend, he may just not be in one movie.

89. StillKirok - October 23, 2007

#88–I don’t know if that last paragraph is true. People who love and enjoy Star Trek have been treated like garbage by Paramount for a long time, which is why they stopped watching. Paramount for too long has held the belief that Trek fans will just buy into anything, regardless of quality. To a certain extent that is true, but the lousy product they put out caused people to bolt and that number of “I will take anything” people has dwindled.

Star Trek did NOT thrive without Shatner. When TNG was at its height, TOS movies were still being made. Shatner was still around, playing Kirk. Once they killed the character, the franchise began freefall. The ratings declined every single year post-Generations. And while the Borg gimmick worked to an extent in FC, when compared to other non-Trek movies, FC did not hold its own as well as the movies before it (not including ST5 which was a dud). TNG killed the movie franchise because the movies stunk. Is the death of Kirk the only reason the franchise failed? No. But it is the turning point. The catalyst. The shark jumper.

I wouldn’t care if Patrick Stewart was in this movie, though obviously, that’s not in the cards. There’s a reason these characters established the franchise to begin with.

But there’s also a big reason to have Shatner in the movie. He CAN still play older Kirk. There IS a demand for him. He is a publicity machine. He brings butts to the seats. They will make more money with him than without him. Like it or not, people are still angry about Generations, and resolving that anger will be a draw.

90. Robert April - October 23, 2007

reply to # 50. Daniel Broadway

The camping scenes were fantastic in Star Trek V. They were humorous. They brought a depth of thoughtfulness and realism to the production and really highlighted the troika of Kirk-Spock-McCoy. This helped (for me anyway) to make that movie bearable.

Ditto for the Enterprise B bridge scenes at the start of Generations. Just pretend it is Kirk, Spock and McCoy saying the lines and you will see what I mean.

91. Driver - October 23, 2007

The less we see of Shatner’s play by play sideline comments, the less we’ll bemoan his non participation in it. I’d rather get jazzed for the film for what it’ll be, not for what it won’t be. That’s a double neg, I know.

92. Stanky McFibberich - October 23, 2007

re: 84 Mr. Deltoid
“And frankly having Chekov in this thing is another huge mistake. Other than Walter Koenig, nobody really gives a crap about Chekov.”

I don’t know about anyone else, but I agree with that. On the other hand, that would be the one recasting that doesn’t bother me.

93. Iowagirl - October 23, 2007

#91

If the saying “what the eye doesn’t see, the heart doesn’t grieve over” applied to us, this site wouldn’t exist at all.

94. Dennis Bailey - October 23, 2007

#91:”I’d rather get jazzed for the film for what it’ll be, not for what it won’t be.”

Exactly so. This film is going to be fine regardless of how this nonsense plays out.

95. ZoomZoom - October 23, 2007

i have it on good authority- Pine is cute, but Shatner is properly handsome. Apparently!
Anyhoo….
Anybody else completely bored- and getting more bored by the day?. I am! Come Christmas 2008 I may have lost all interest!
May well have to disconnect entirely from this film or i’ll burn out way before its released.

96. The Master - October 23, 2007

95. I agree I need some more news like Who will play Pike, what is the enterprise going to look like, who is playing Ma and Pa Kirk, will Sarek, Matt Decker or T’Pol be in the Movie? will the time travel include visits to All ofthe Ships named enterprise starting with Archer’s and ending with 1701E? are they referncing the Tempral War? how much are they discounting Enterprise making a time line more consitinet with TOS??
That is I want to know. The on going Shatner debate has out-lived its usefulness and is tired already. move on.

97. Dennis Bailey - October 23, 2007

Pa Kirk is played by Connor Trineer; Ma Kirk by Grace Lee Whitney.

Sales at theater concession counters will plummet.

98. Dr. Image - October 23, 2007

Hey, Shatner AGREED to Kirk getting killed off in GEN. did he not?
If it mattered to him he should have spoke up.
Now, courtesy of shitty writing which has created “canon,” Kirk’s dead and that should be that.

99. Driver - October 23, 2007

#98. But, then he couldn’t have written all those novels about his return. Maybe he thought Kirk would return in the next ST film, and the next after that, and……..

100. Kev-1 - October 23, 2007

More Shatfinity….

101. I AM THX-1138 - October 23, 2007

This is a great story.

For me to poop on.

102. Bono Luthor - October 23, 2007

#95 Can kind of see what you mean…

103. Rastaman - October 23, 2007

I commend him for his endorsement of Pine (albeit through gritted teeth). Must have been hard for the Shat.

95, 96, & 102: EASY THERE pilgrims! Bored already? We only learned about all the principle cast members like three days ago.

Shooting begins in a couple weeks. That’s when the REAL leaks begin.

104. The Master - October 23, 2007

97 I was thinkin more like Biilly Bob Thornton for Pa Kirk and for Ma Kirk 6 from BSG. *LOLROFL* ;)

105. ZoomZoom - October 23, 2007

#103 problem is, Rastaman, I don’t want to know! I don’t want the thing spoiled by leaks.
Hence the may have to disconnect thing. Trouble is I can’t help myself, I always end up in here looking for the latest news!
HELP! LOL

106. StillKirok - October 23, 2007

#98–he did speak up. It was too late to change Berman’s mind. He even tried to propose what would become The Return for ST8. Berman blew him off.

Shatner has tried to fix this mistake since it happened. He’s been blown off.

Shatner wants back in, and there is overwhelming support for that. It’s a no brainer.

107. Dennis Bailey - October 23, 2007

“Overwhelming support” among a few people on the Internet. That’s the extent of it, far as can be demonstrated by anyone.

108. Driver - October 23, 2007

#106. Shatner must not have a lot of pull at Paramount, then. That fell through, and getting more money to finish//fix STV, which He starred in, He directed, And is widely considered The Worst in the TOS films, And the Fanboys want Him back, And Ad Nauseum.
But, hey, I really liked STV. Always have.
This interview reminds me of Generations at the beginning, where Kirk is saying “Oh, fine, fine, good, keeping busy….”

109. Greg2600 - October 23, 2007

Star Trek V was a project snake bit from the start. Shatner tried to get a well respected scifi author to pen the script, but he was not available. They tried to get Nicholas Meyer, who was doing something else. Sean Connery did Indiana Jones instead. Goofy comedy like the overly vague Scotty-Uhura romance and other things were inserted by Paramount, who rejected Shatner’s darker tone. Even a decision as stupid as refusing to allow Nichelle to sing her own part, but dubbed in some other woman. The last nail was that Industrial Light and Magic were completely booked on other films. Instead they had to use an undermanned and underprepared FX company.

If J.J. cannot get Shatner into this film, I would hope the least he might do is convince Paramount to allow Shatner to spruce up The Final Frontier.

110. StillKirok - October 23, 2007

Actually, if only a few people on the internet were fans of Shatner as Kirk, there would be no Star Trek.

An emmy nominated actor, who is still on top and all over the place hardly needs to audition for his iconic role. It’s ridiculous to even think that his return wouldn’t be viewed positively and overwhelming.

111. RaveOnEd - October 23, 2007

Not meaning this in a sarcastic way, this is from a curiosity standpoint:

At what timeframe would you put older Kirk, since he would be well over 100 years old (and require a good bit of makeup) in the TNG timeframe?

Assuming, of course, the timeframe we’re seeing older Spock is TNG.

112. StillKirok - October 23, 2007

Actually, the only thing limited to a few people on the internet are the people that DON’T want Shatner in the movie.

His mainstream appeal is undeniable–except to a few people that visit some Star Trek sites.

113. Dennis Bailey - October 23, 2007

#110: “Actually, if only a few people on the internet were fans of Shatner as Kirk, there would be no Star Trek.”

:lol:

Even if that were true, would you be unable to see that it doesn’t prove this mythical “overwhelming support” some folks are claiming for his appearence in this movie?

Even on the Internet, beyond a few Trek boards there’s a great deal more interest at this moment in whether Britney Spears will regain custody of her kids than there ever will be in anything having to do with Shatner per se. Sad but true. :lol:

114. Stanky McFibberich - October 23, 2007

113. There may be no hard figures to prove support, but conversely there aren’t any to disprove it, either.

If anyone is counting, I am for whatever Mr. Shatner wants to do.

115. Rastaman - October 23, 2007

ZoomZoom

“I can’t help myself, I always end up in here looking for the latest news!
HELP! LOL ”

O how I suffer with thee! The last Star Trek film I saw spoiler-free was Star Trek VI, and I think my Trek movie experiences have suffered ever since. I recall seeing an entire draft of the First Contact script online months before the movie.

Then again, my suffering might have more to do with the movies themselves than any of the spoilers. Still, here’s hoping JJ runs a tight lipped ship.

116. Harry Ballz - October 23, 2007

Go ahead, say the phrase, “tight lipped ship” five times, real fast!!

117. StillKirok - October 23, 2007

The only mythical claim is that people don’t want Shatner. In reality, his return would be a nostalgia feel good story not unlike Stallone as Rocky, or if Connery came back as Bond. Take Nimoy’s positive buzz, and magnify it.

Shatner is simply a bigger name, and bigger star, and there’s a reason to bring him back.

118. Silhouette - October 23, 2007

117. StillKirok – October 23, 2007

You and about 8 others posting here seem to be the core of “must-have Shatners”. So I’ll ask you.
Have you considered the possibility that your constant call for the return of William Shatner, spanning multiple threads, turned more people off to Bill’s return? I find myself p’od over the constant SPAMMING repetitive reasons that he could, SHOULD be in the movie. I’ve gone from not caring one way or another to sometimes loathing the possibilty of another TrekZombie returning from death.
He’s not owed a thing. He is not being cheated, he’s an actor and the producers did talk to him at the start as a courtesy and a possible cast member. He’s a big boy and if the fabled PTB decided to keep his character dead (and you’re right, he helped..mistake or no), he’s been an actor long enough to know not every part comes your way. Besides none of us here know what’s being discussed… and I don’t want to hear the “why would he lie?” response. If there are negotiations going on… would YOU give a complete truth? And it’s likely that if they are negotiating neither party can acknowledge what’s going on.
You may not want to believe it, but no one here hates Bill. But this constant drumbeat of his name is not persuading a soul and may be doing the opposite. And this is not the avenue to push the agenda. Ask Anthony Pascale. If I am wrong he certainly can tel me I am wrong.

119. jonboc - October 23, 2007

118 “And this is not the avenue to push the agenda. Ask Anthony Pascale. If I am wrong he certainly can tel me I am wrong. ”

Other threads may not be the avenue, but this one, and others, that feature Shatner discussing the movie, are fair game for such discussion as far as I’m concerned.

120. Harry Ballz - October 23, 2007

Discussion is one thing, but when a lament turns into a grievance, then an endless mantra repeated over and over……that’s not a discussion, that’s a lecture.

A little more dialogue, a little less diatribe…….thank you!

121. Shatner_Fan_2000 - October 23, 2007

#118 … You said it yourself, you did not care “one way or another”. And if you’re now turned off to the idea, so be it; there are always going to be opposing viewpoints. But Kirok is right … the return of Shatner as Kirk is something a lot of people want to see. In the other enormous thread with Shatner’s videos, people were coming out of lurkdom in support of him. Voodoo said about 70% of us were in favor of the idea, compared to 10% who weren’t.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the pleas wouldn’t be as loud or as constant if this were not a TOS movie. But it is, with Nimoy as Spock no less. And as you mention, the producers DID kinda get hopes up earlier in the year by saying things like:

“…the involvement of William Shatner and Leonard
Nimoy means a great deal to us on many levels, not the
least of which is just the respect of who they are and
what they do. They are the carriers of this torch and,
without being too reverential; we want to show them
the kind of appreciation and admiration they deserve.”

-JJ Abrams

So the idea of Shatner returning is closer to reality than it’s been in years, and that gets people excited. Particularly people who really love TOS.

As far as this “not being the place to push the agenda”, I say this is the BEST place to “push” it. One of the film’s writers is reading our comments. And he even called Ivory’s open letter calling for the return of Shatner “compelling”. Lastly, Anthony lets us know when he thinks the topic has spilled over unneccessarily into other threads. But he opens up new Shatner threads every few days, and we are welcome to discuss it there as much as we like. If you don’t like it, no one is forcing you to read it. You’d feel the same way if it was something you were passionate about.

122. The Realist - October 23, 2007

It is not the fact that people are pushing for Shatner to be in the film, the issue is, people are getting sick and tired of reading the same reasons as to why Shatner should be in the film, they are sick of reading the same crap every time William Shatner is mentioned, the only role I have ever enjoyed Shatner in is Kirk, I can’t stand the man’s acting other wise, as Kirk he is brilliant. But you know what? After hearing all the reasons time and time again, and the oh poor shatner posts time and time again, I don’t want him in the movie! He agreed to the death of Kirk tough luck for him, I feel no pitty for him, a good story is more important than just one actor period. And I realy love TOS as much as I do the other series, but I can no longer stand this continuous whinging, demanding, poor shatner crap.

123. Shatner_Fan_2000 - October 23, 2007

#122 … I skip over threads I’m not interested in. No one placed a Ceti eel in your ear and is commanding you to read. No pity for you, either. ;)

124. Joseph Brown - October 23, 2007

I’m a moderate supporter of bringing back Captain Kirk and I like all of the various Trek series. I truly hope a way is found of including Mr. Shatner in the new film without changing the established timeline and continuity of the Star Trek universe. I believe the best way to do this is to have him appear post-Generations and have there be brief allusions to Mr. Shatner and the Reeve-Stevenses’ first trilogy of novels (also known as Star Trek: Odyssey) mentioned. Then, I think Star Trek: Odyssey should be made into a trilogy of canonical animated films which are faithful to the novels except where they don’t match established canon and continuity. The problem with this is the legal issues. Would Mr. Shatner and the Reeve-Stevenses make a deal with Paramount to allow my idea to proceed? The answer is probably yes if the money is right and the changes made during the adaptation are relatively minor.

Besides having Mr. Shatner in the film, it would be nice for Captain (or Commodore) April, Captain Archer, and Captain Garrovick to at least be mentioned ,especially Captain April, that way he’ll finally be canon whether or not TAS is.

125. Driver - October 23, 2007

The ultimate fate of Captain James T. Kirk now rests in the hands of 21st Century scriptwriters. What a cliffhanger! Tune in tomorrow, folks as the Shatner Saga continues. [Biting nails]

126. Iowagirl - October 24, 2007

#122

The bashers are also repeating their position over and over again. Whenever I can’t stand it any longer I

a) don’t read them anymore
b) cook a meal (I must admit, I look a bit like Shatner meanwhile..)
c) tend my other obsessions

You may consider one of the above options, as well.

127. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - October 24, 2007

#122 — I’m so sick and tired of it, too. The Shatner fixation is a morbid obsession by now, sucking out any discussion about Star Trek’s other merits and possibilities on these boards.

You know how you can tell when something is truly dead? It’s when people no longer imagine anything new, they’re just wholly preoccupied with reliving the past. The whole point of ST11 is to move past all of that, and get Star Trek a new, revitalized lease on life.

Hopefully, this Shatner thing will die down once we get closer to seeing what this new vision is going to be like.

128. tiberius - October 24, 2007

Would anyone have liked “ST:Generations” better if Nimoy had had a nominal cameo in it (as was originally planned)?

Nope. Neither would I.

Looks to me like Nimoy’s part is going to be substantial enough to the plot that it could make or break the film. Whether Shat has a cameo won’t make a difference at all, and I find it hard to believe they can re-write the script sufficiently enough now to make an extended role make sense.

Let it go, folks. Let it go.

129. Cervantes - October 24, 2007

Bring back older Stallone as Rambo!

Can’t wait to see him in that…

And the older Harrison Ford as the new ‘Indy’ too…

Wait, I see a pattern forming…great.

130. Tino - October 24, 2007

Oh no … is he being interviewed by his daughter again? How pathetic. Hey look guys, I don’t get enough interviews so I’ll make my own ones. *doh*

131. Pragmaticus - October 24, 2007

I think The Shat would make the coolest dad ever.

132. Star Trackie - October 24, 2007

The Shat is cool to the extreme. The bashers just don’t get it and they never will. That’s why their posts, filled with not-too-clever backhanded compliments fall on deaf ears. The most important thing in this discussion is 1) JJ , Nimoy and the writers think Shatner is cool and want him in the movie and 2) JJ, Nimoy and the writers think Shatner is cool and want him in the movie.

Those who are tired of seeing Shatner on Boston Legal and Priceline and Shatnervision and CD’s and documentarys and horse shows and award shows etc etc, and really can’t stand the thought of him being popular, well…too bad, so sad.

All the “he’s too fat” and “being too old to dropkick” jokes in the world won’t change a thing. Despite the Shatnerphobia that exists among many that frequent these boards…the man is still wildly popular and they still want him in the film. If there is a way to make it happen, it will happen.

So forgive me Shatnerbashers, but I have to side with JJ and Nimoy on this one…I want him in.

133. Iowagirl - October 24, 2007

#132

“Shatnerphobia” – that’s a really good one…

134. Harry Ballz - October 24, 2007

How about people suffering from the Shatbola Virus?

135. star trackie - October 24, 2007

#134 -” How about people suffering from the Shatbola Virus? ”

If it will give me the looks and energy he has at 75, I hope I’m not immune!!

136. Harry Ballz - October 24, 2007

He’s 76 and, you’re right, he looks good!

137. Michael Hall - October 24, 2007

Dennis,

“Exactly so. This film is going to be fine regardless of how this nonsense plays out.”

Do you know something we don’t? :-)

138. Silhouette and the can of worms - October 24, 2007

#119, 121, 123, 126, 132, etc.

First, yes I could skip threads, but I like to read what is on this site and you all DO have good things to say, when the subject is something else.
Second. I said “agenda”. I should have called it an advertising campaign. It’s not discussion. It’s jamming a message into a place where you hope to influence someone.
Are you influenced yet, Mr. Orci?

Your opinions on this have been heard dozens of times. We got it, he got it.
Onward.

139. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - October 24, 2007

#132 — It’s not the “Shatner lovers” versus the “Shatner Bashers” or the “Shatnerphobes”, it’s the Shatner Fascists versus the people who put good storytelling and Star Trek’s long-term endurance before fetishistic, uncritical idolatry.

If I were a Shatnerphobe or basher, why do I have copies of I:TMP, II:TWOK, IV:TVH, VI:TUC, and a half-dozen (and growing) downloaded TOS episodes? I *love* Shatner as Kirk (in most instances — you admit he has hammy moments), but that era is OVER, especially the end-of-careeer/end-of-life Kirk.

The Shatner Fascists, on the other hand, have a clear and aggressive agenda (that is the right word): to demand insistently and obdurately on every board on this site, without regard to relevance, about one narrow issue, and to stamp out every opposing and critical voice. You steamroll over every nuance of your opponents and hasten to turn them into straw men, so you can bash them while bellowing your monomaniacal slogans.

I call you Fascists because you pursue your single objective without regard for the needs of the greater good (i.e. in this case, what is good for Star Trek 11 and the future of Star Trek), and at the same time proclaim that the greater good can be reduced to one thing — the attainment of your objective.

I have not seen any Shatner Fascist propose a single plot development that does not go against the grain of Star Trek 11′s purpose. Rather, every proposed plot device is an ad hoc, perfunctory negation of Generation’s climax, and plays exclusively on the audience’s nostalgic heart-strings. Why is it a foregone conclusion that resolving Kirk’s death is paramount to the success of Star Trek 11 and any future incarnations?

I have yet to read a valid reason, i.e. one that addresses the wider objectives of the Star Trek 11 movie, namely to launch fresh faces in familiar roles. Instead, all the reasons given rely on circular reasoning: We need to save Kirk in STXI because we can undo his death in Generations; What is it about STXI that necessitates Kirk’s being brought back? The fact that Generations messed up Kirk’s death.

The bottom line:

JJ , Nimoy and the writers think Shatner is cool and want him in the movie

They may have the utmost respect for Shatner as Kirk, as I do, but clearly STXI was not written with undoing Generations in mind. Any attempt to include him is an afterthought, and it would surely undo what seems to be at this point a good, tight script.

140. Iowagirl - October 25, 2007

#139
I hope you’ll never meet a real fascist in your life. As we are living in a world in which fascism is one of the most terrible threats to peace, your unbelievable post is both deeply shocking and scary. It is my sincere hope that your own demonstration of extremism is not shared by anyone at this site.

141. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - October 25, 2007

I hate to break it to you, Iowagirl, but there are fascists all around us, “real” ones as well as petty ones. But I won’t digress, nor will I be baited.

I am deeply shocked and scared by the behavior I see on this site. If only everyone were as civil and thoughtful as you, I’d have nothing to complain about — it’s not like I can’t handle people with opposing viewpoints, just not people who take an attitude that is sanctimonious and recalcitrant. All anyone has to say on any thread on this site, whether it is relevant to the question of Shatner in the new movie or not, is “I’m not so sure Shatner will fit” or “Why does Shatner steal the limelight from his fellow cast members?” or “Shatner no longer looks the part”, and the resident Inquisitors rain down invective upon the poster, complete with a tone of pious reverence with reference to Shatner, like “How could anyone question unser Füaut;hrer“.

142. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - October 25, 2007

^ Correction — Er, the HTML didn’t get rendered correctly, “unser Fuehrer

143. Iowagirl - October 25, 2007

There it is – you said it. This word and all connected with it brought horror, fear and death upon my homecountry and it is, therefore, forbidden to say or write it in Germany. You are entitled to your own opinion, but nobody has the right to use such a vocabulary in a debate like this. Making a reference to Hitler when talking about Shatner or your opponents in the Shatner debate is beyond anything I am able to comprehend. Please, stop your posts – you clearly don’t know what you are talking about.

144. Cervates - October 25, 2007

Yesiree, ‘Star Trek’ is most definately back… ;)

Bring on William in this Movie, in a wheelbarrow if we have to.

145. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - October 25, 2007

#143 — That’s a knee-jerk reaction if I ever saw one. Now you’re advocating censorship, because I’m pointing out the bullying and intolerant nature of my opponents with a bit (not much) hyperbole. I also notice that in neither of your responses to me have you actually addressed any concrete complaints, you’re just posturing with this “outrage” stance. Typical. This is just another form of what I was pointing out — Inquisition attitude, crying “heresy” etc.

And for your information, the word in German that means “leader” is not forbidden to say or write in Germany — the swastika, SS insignia, etc. are, but not that word. In fact, having taken German for six or so years, I can tell you it is commonly used, it’s just used judiciously.

If you have a problem with my posts, just ignore them. I see right through your righteous indignation.

146. Shatner_Fan_2000 - October 25, 2007

So we sometimes get our wrists slapped for being fans who’d like to see Shatner return, but it’s ok for someone to call us fascists and compare us to Nazi’s and Shatner to Hitler?

Uh … Anthony … ?

147. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - October 25, 2007

Oh, and “Shatner Bashers” and “Shatner haters” and “Shatnerphobes” are all okay things to call people who are bone fide Star Trek fans, just because they express opposition to putting Shatner in at the expense of all other considerations?

By the way, this is a legitimate explanation of the word “fascist”:

I call you Fascists because you pursue your single objective without regard for the needs of the greater good (i.e. in this case, what is good for Star Trek 11 and the future of Star Trek), and at the same time proclaim that the greater good can be reduced to one thing — the attainment of your objective.

And, I did not compare Shatner to Hitler, I compared the attitude of the pro-Shatner camp to that adopted by Nazis. However, since you seem to be all up in arms about that particular historical comparison, I will use Shatner Inquisition instead.

You, Shatner Fan 2000, are a perfect example of a Shatner Inquisitor.

148. Iowagirl - October 25, 2007

#145
Forgive me – I meant forbidden in terms of unacceptable, forbidden to any human being with a mind to think clear. And you don’t have to tell me what the word you dared to use actually means as I am German and have taken German for all my life. Trust me, it is not commonly used. People shrink away from using it, unless…

I won’t address any concrete complaints of yours because they were not addressed at me. I just express my opinions like everyone else does and I am able do it without a fascistic agenda. I see right through your gamesmanship and I won’t be available for further comment on this issue. If you consider this as a knee-jerk reaction – just feel free to do so. I have nothing to hide and nothing to prove; not to someone who considers national socialistic propaganda the correct discussion level.

149. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - October 25, 2007

Alright, alright already, the point was not to start a flame war over the word “fascist”. Rather it was to get at the behavior of a certain camp.

I am incensed at what I see on this thread, on the 630+ Shatner thread, and on the thread about the TOS crew appearing on Spike — this constant yelling and stamping of feet over the Shatner issue, even in places where it is hardly the matter at hand, and the tactic of labeling people “bashers” and “haters” and “Shatnerphobes” when they express the slightest doubt or criticism about Kirk’s resurrection.

This last tactic is very alarming, because its intent is to make the people thus labeled out to be less “true” to Star Trek, and necessarily “against” Shatner, when it is more about other issues taking precedence, and not reducing everything down to the question of Shatner.

If not “fascism”, then I’ll compare it to other things: the Inquisition, a witch hunt, McCarthyism. But I will not stand for this bullying, this attempt by a group that sees itself as a kind of righteous majority to quash, belittle and deprecate their minority opponents (assuming that they are a minority).

150. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - October 25, 2007

#146 — Here’s your proof. You said this to me in the 630+ Shatner thread:

Oh my. You poor fellow. Hey, Trek has been pumped full of posion for years. You might call it Bermacide. It seems TPTB wised up somewhat and now feel the antidote lies in a little known show called Star Trek (the original series). Which owes a sizable chunk of its success to its star. Whose name is Shatner …… any of this registering yet?

What an unbelievable tone of condescension you mustered, all because I said that putting Kirk in at the expense of all other considerations would be poison to the new movie. And you are taken aback that I compare you to a dogmatic bully? And you go crying to the referee?

151. Shatner_Fan_2000 - October 25, 2007

“Fruity as a nutcake.”

152. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - October 25, 2007

I rest my case

153. Michael Hall - October 25, 2007

Wow. Turn my back on a thread for a day or so, and look what happens. . .

I find pretty laughable the notion that there are strictly “Pro-Kirk/Shatner vs. Anti-Kirk/Shatner” factions in Trek fandom, or even on this site. Such pigeonholing of a diverse spectrum of opinions/feelings may be even dumber than designating someone as “pro-life” or “pro-choice”–which means it may very well be the dumbest designation that’s ever been. That said, I have to admit being genuinely amazed at some of the “Pro-Shat” postings which seem to imply that the decision of whether or not to include him outweighs all other creative considerations in this film. You get the distinct impression that such people would be much happier with a film which featured Shatner–squeezed into uniform for his last hurrah, staring into the camera and chanting “Om Mane Padre Hum” for two hours–to an well-written, thought-provoking SF-adventure film that didn’t. (Or, in the case of one notorious poster, a film which tossed out an anonymous subspace message stating that Kirk hadn’t died in the Nexus after all.) I’m not offended by such stuff, but truthfully, I do find it kind of sad.

Which brings me to the second issue: tossing words like “fascist” around with regards to honest disagreements on the revivial of a 40 year-old television franchise isn’t exactly helpfulm, either. There are, unfortunately, a good many actual fascists in this world, many of them close to home. Let’s keep some perspective and not dilute such words to the point where they don’t actually signify anything important, okay? :-)

154. jonboc - October 25, 2007

I want Shatner in the movie. So does Abrahm’s, Nimoy and Orci.

4 8 15 16 23 42 and many others ( you know who you are) do not.

I honestly don’t know what the “Shatnerphobes” are afraid of. Apparently it doesn’t seem to pose a problem or threat to Abrahm’s. Or to Nimoy. I mean, are they dead set against Nimoy being in the film? He is in it, you know. But everyone is OK with that but NO SHatner!! Let the new cast shine they say. No SHat!! He’s old and fat!!

No Shat because it will hurt the script (that they’ve never read) or ruin Pine’s Kirk…supposing there are even scenes with the two together… in this script….they’ve never read.

Or, it will hurt the film to just drop him into this movie…writing him into it, just for the hell of it….will ruin the structure and pacing and drama of this script…that they have, umm…never read.

Hmm. Well, you know, Abrahms, Nimoy…Orci…they all HAVE read the script, and they would like Shatner in the film. It may not work out, but they do want it to happen.

That’s good enough for me.

155. Silhouette - October 25, 2007

Ok, this has become far too extreme.

4 8 15 16 23 42, while I agree for the most part with your overall stance, I cannot agree with the other terms you are using. This is a movie, not world politics or social sciences.

I won’t be labeled as a phobe or a basher. I’ve not used a derogatory term to describe Shatner or his ardent fans. I do stand by what I said in #118.

156. King Anthony - October 25, 2007

20-

Hardly.

Pine more than Shatner?

Pah.

Speak for yourself.

157. King Anthony - October 25, 2007

Bill.

You’re a class act. Don’t ever change.

Steer clear of that film, just like everyone else will.

158. Kirk: The Jack Bauer Of Space - October 25, 2007

Keep Shatner healthy!!!!

Because if he’s not in the first (2008) film, he WILL be in the next one…

(this of course assumes that the 2008 film will be a blowout success and there will be a demand for a follow-up)

159. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - October 25, 2007

#154 — I will try for a moment to ignore the fact that you used that hateful “Shatnerphobe” term. We’re coming up on filming, and there is still no part for Shatner. That is telling. I’ve never read the script, true, but if there was no part for Shatner to begin with, then shoehorning him in at this late stage would surely ruin it. Why? Because undoing Kirk’s death can’t just be thrown in. It would require a dedicated story line. Doing it in a perfunctory, ad hoc way would just make for sloppy storytelling.

Shatner had his time and place, I appreciate him there, and I don’t want his character perverted by cheap ploys, the only aim of which is to coddle the fanbase. If this movie had been conceived as a vehicle to save Kirk from the Nexus, I’d be wary but supportive. That is simply not the case.

So, now, that moment is over. Stop trying to bully and marginalize your opponents by using that despicable “Shatnerphobe” language. For your information, I enjoy TOS era TV and movies as much as just about anyone on here, so labeling me a “Shatnerphobe” is just plain false. Enough!

160. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - October 25, 2007

#153, #155 — Michael Hall and Silhouette: You guys are right. I was very upset at #132 and #133 (Star Trackie and Iowagirl), as well as Camaro09 on the Scream 07 thread, and I thought to fight fire with fire; plus, their rhetoric has gotten so disrespectful and extreme, that it became like a social issue for me — one group of this community trying to strong-arm another group into submission and silence. I’ve backed off using specific emotionally charged labels, but I will nevertheless refuse to abide that kind of behavior.

161. Anthony Pascale - October 25, 2007

enough

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