Shatner: Not Putting Me In Is Not Wise October 26, 2007
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: ST09 Cast, Shatner , trackback
It seems the ‘Shatner not in the new Star Trek movie’ story has worked its way into the mainstream media. The AP talked to The Shat today and he let it be known that he is not pleased that he has not been asked:
I couldn’t believe it. I’m not in the movie at all. Leonard [Nimoy], God bless his heart, is in, but not me. I thought, what a decision to make, since it obviously is a decision not to make use of the popularity I have to ensure the movie has good box office. It didn’t seem to be a wise business decision
Shatner of course is not hard up for work, with a spot on Boston Legal, a new book out (Collision Course) and narration on the upcoming Christmas Spoof “Stalking Santa” due on DVD on Nov. 6. “I’ve got a lot to do,” says the original Captain Kirk. However his disappointment at not being in the new Trek film seems genuine, saying:
Having been in on the creation of it, I was hoping to be in on the re-creation.
Of course there is still a ray of hope. As noted before, co-writer Roberto Orci stated that they still may decide to put Mr. Shatner into the film and that the decision may come after shooting starts in early November (the film will be in production all the way to March). Of course Shatner’s critiques of the film makers are likely not doing him any favors, and may become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
J.J., please end this
The above statements and Shatner’s other recent statements regarding the film should really put to rest any lingering doubts that his lack of involvement is some form of publicity stunt. News reported here or at ShatnerVision works its way around the ‘geekopshere,’ but AP articles end up in newspapers around the world and likely on TV as well (CNN, E!, etc). This seeming tension between Abrams and Shatner is not the kind of thing that Paramount publicity want. The AP article also discusses how at this summer’s Comic-Con J.J. Abrams left many in the media with the impression that Shatner would end up in the film. AP states that J.J. Abrams said Shatner would ‘probably’ end up in the film, but for the record Abrams didn’t actually say that. He said “We are desperately trying to find a way to put him in this movie.” However most reports took that as a ‘yes,’ which is why TrekMovie.com is on record recommending that Abrams himself make the final and definitive statement regarding Shatner…and hopefully do it sometime soon.
(source: AP)
UPDATE: Shatner on TOSR and the past
In an unrelated new article regarding Shatner’s new “Stalking Santa” DVD, there was this tidbit where The Shat was asked about the upcoming release of the digitally remastered Original Series on HD-DVD. Shat didn’t seem to know much about it, but went off on quite a tangent about the past:
I recollect them saying they were going to do that. You know I don’t collect those things. I’m sure they’re around somewhere but I never look back at those things. I don’t even take pictures. I’ve got all kinds of cameras, I love cameras but I find myself reluctantly taking pictures because what’s past is past. You can’t recapture it and I hear these heartbreaking stories of people who lose everything in a fire and the thing they most care about are pictures and I’m thinking, “Why?” The pictures remind you of something that can never be recaptured, the time is gone, the only thing you know is the present. That’s all that’s knowable and even the present isn’t knowable. The present becomes the past… so you really don’t know anything. Least of all, either seeing a picture of you when you were younger which is somewhat horrifying, or someone you love who was younger. I’m kind of trying to discover the answer to the mystery of why pictures.
(source: Movieweb)
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Comments
LoL!
Get the Shat in there…(in my opinion all the original cast should’ve found a spot in the movie)
If it fits with the film, get him in.
However, the film has to come first.
The man has appeal at his age. I do not think there is a sole on this planet who does not know who he is. He definitly would bring in box office reciepts more than Cruise would.
Put TWO tractor beams on that actor!
This is such sport for them. Lots of the fans would just like to know for sure. But, what do we matter?
QUIT PLAYING GAMES WITH MY HEART
Even in my heart I see
You’re not bein’ true to me
Deep within my soul I feel
Nothing’s like it used to be
Sometimes I wish I could
Turn back time
Impossible as it may seem
But I wish I could so bad baby
Quit playin’ games with my heart
Quit playin’ games with my heart
Before you tear us apart
I should’ve known from the start
Before you got into my heart
I live my life the way
To keep you comin’ back to me
Everything I do is for you so
So what is it that you can’t see
Sometimes I wish I could
Turn back time
Impossible as it may seem
But I wish I could so bad
You better quit playin’ games with my heart
Quit playin’ games
Baby, baby the love that we had was so strong
Don’t leave me hangin’ here forever
Oh baby, baby this is not a lie, let’s stop
This tonight
Baby, quit playin’ games
Sometimes I wish I could
Turn back time
Impossible as it may seem
But I wish I could so bad, baby
Quit playin’ games with my heart
Quit playin’ games
Baby, baby the love that we had was so strong
Don’t leave me hangin’ here forever
Oh baby, baby this is not a lie, let’s stop
This tonight .
best song for topic.
The issue that’s pre-occupied us has finally escaped into the mainstream. And as someone earlier pointed out, the question the general public will focus on is “Why not?”. JJ & Co. – you’re out of running room on this issue -
OMG, not again…………..
I couldn’t watch this film if Shatner wasn’t in it. God bless Nimoy… I love that he will be in the film, but without Shatner, I would feel hard pressed to go out and see this. It just wouldn’t feel right, and I would end up feeling angry that Shatner wasn’t in it.
Don’t get me wrong… I firmly believe this is a “one shot deal” for Nimoy, as it would be with Shatner if he is in the film. Any future movies should be with the new crew only, and not involve the original actors. But this film is clearly a passing of the torch, and to do it properly, I feel it needs both Shatner and Nimoy. This really is the last chance to get them both in a Trek movie together again. To only have one in the film is a cheat to the audience.
I want my Shat Attack value meal.
For the most part I dont get emotional about movies. In thi scase, I’m so upset I can’t find words.
Please put Willian Shatner as Kirk in this movie.
Paramounts got my money for tickets multiple times over if he’s in it. Do the right thing!
Peace.
Well…CNN put the AP story on their entertainment page…I have a feeling the question might have to be answered by JJ & Co. sooner than later..just to stop the questions from being asked so they can move on and make their film.
JCool — we haven’t had a good Friday night video on this site in a long time. This spoiled-rotten fan would like to see a new one.
hint-hint-hint
Doesn’t anyone else see this form of public lobbying as tacky and distasteful?
I love Mr. Shatner (Yes, love, I grew up with the man as my hero. Along side Christopher Reeve), and I know he (and his ego) is deeply hurt by the fact that the film can go on without him, but this public whining is so befitting of him and his character.
I am not use to seeing Kirk beg for anything, and this is a pathetic sight to be seen. If James T. Kirk can take falling off that bridge like a man then Mr. Shatner should be able to take the consequences of allowing that action to happen in the first place, like a man.
If this were Patrick Stewart or Brent Spiner lobbying for a part, you all would be having a field day shooting them down.
For all of you proclaiming that Shatner should be in TREK XI… or ELSE… please explain to the rest of us how you can adequately include Shatner’s Kirk into this new film without wasting pages and minutes of exposition about GENERATIONS and the Nexus, without making the general public’s eyes glaze over and the film itself grind to a screeching halt like a 2-ton mack truck of technobabble. I’m all ears.
14. DRE
I agree. I think that if this is going to be a Spock-centric story, and Shatner is anywhere near the set, it will become Kirk-centric. I love the Shat, but I think he should give Leonard his own spotlight.
Looks like the ’shat’ has hit the fan now.
I’ve been reading these threads for awhile, but haven’t yet been compelled to comment. However, I must at this point go on record as being in support of William Shatner being in the movie.
Shatner must be in this movie. And, although I would settle for him playing Kirk’s dad or grandpa, it would be even better if he played the old Kirk. Others have put forth good arguments about why he should be in the movie, but I believe I have an argument that has not yet been offered…
I have high hopes that Chris Pine has the potential to be a good Kirk, and that he and the new cast can competently guide the Enterprise on to great new adventures. But… whenever I watch Chris Pine’s Kirk get in any danger, I will know that he will survive and live on… so that he can later die a meaningless death falling off a bridge.
You see, when Shatner made the mistake of agreeing to be in the flawed Generations movie, he agreed to kill Kirk… not just his Kirk, but Chris Pine’s Kirk as well.
If they don’t somehow undo Generations, then Kirk (whether it is Pine or Shatner) still dies at the hands of stupid Soran. Although Generations had some cool things about it, and had some potential, it is deeply flawed. Consider these facts, for example:
- Soran, Guinan, and Kirk originally get into the Nexus in a ship, yet Soran ridiculously thinks that the only way to get back in is to have the Nexus come to him on a planet.
- Soran’s rocket hits the sun as if the sun is an object just a few hundred feet up in the sky. The rocket doesn’t leave the atmosphere, go through space, then strike the sun. No, it just hits the sun in the blue sky like a bullet from a rifle might strike a flying duck. And of course, the nexus, which also appears as an object no farther from the surface than a cloud, immediately has its path changed by the absence of the sun’s gravity. All of this is absurdly stupid.
- Picard decides to risk Kirk’s life by pulling him out of the nexus at a time and place that is extremely perilous. Why didn’t Picard pull Kirk out a little earlier, so that they could destroy Soran’s rocket before he was about to launch it?
These are the things I think about when I think about Kirk’s death. And in the future, whenever I see Chris Pine beat the odds and come out on top against a nasty villain… I will always think: Okay, so he managed to get out of this one, but so what… The idiot Soran still makes him fall off a stupid bridge and die.
By no means do I think that they should refilm any Generations stuff… that should be left behind for good. But there are various ways to explain old Kirk being alive. The simplest way? … have a Snake Plissken moment. Someone could say, “I heard you were dead.” He could respond with a Picard comment: “Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.” That would do it.
Please, I don’t want to think of Chris Pine’s Kirk as a guy who will one day fall off a bridge and die.
Lets clear this up! He took the part in Generations because he was trying to give the character a proper send off. Paramount, in their not so infinite wisdom, had decided to retire the Original cast. Berman and Co. decided to finish the job by killing off Kirk. Shatner, and everyone else, was led to believe that this was the end of the line for the Original Cast.
Now is the time to rectify this horrendous error in judgement by Paramount:
BRING BACK WILLIAM SHATNER AS CAPTAIN JAMES TIBERIUS KIRK!!!
shat is awesome but needs to let it go- agreed with 14 and 16.
Whatever pretense folks were making last week that the Shat is not campaigning in the press are thoroughly flattened by this story.
Doubtless someone can construct a superficially logical defense for the actor managing somehow *coincidentally* to go on in two interviews within two weeks about how he ain’t and how he oughta be in the Trek movie, but it failes the smell test. One really has to be drinking the Kool-Aid to buy into that.
There’s a bigger, more immediate, and more essential question created by this latest interview, however – and it’s one that we as fans can actually influence. To wit:
Will this be the Trekmovie Shatner thread that actually hits 1000 posts?
Shat-NER!
Shat-NER!
Shat-NER!
15 – If they put old Kirk in this film, they DON’T HAVE to explain it. Let that 500 page techno-sleeping pill be shunted to some lame-ass book tie-in. JUST let the movie be the movie.
Here we go again… I’m bowing out of this one early, as I can’t imagine that anything new can be said on this topic since 2 days ago…
This really bums me out. This could be our last chance to EVER see William Shatner as Captain Kirk. Please put him in this film.
For a man who spent half his career trying to distance himself from Trek, Shatner seems to be suddenly concerned about the franchise. I think he should just relax and enjoy his well-earned Emmys and keep kissing a*s on Boston Legal. Denny Crane is perfect for Shatner now; Kirk isn’t.
#14 “Doesn’t anyone else see this form of public lobbying as tacky and distasteful?”
No, you’re reading too much into it. I’ve you seen many Shatner interviews, you know his answers are always about 50% truth mixed with 50% hyperbole for effect. He’s not begging. He’s not boycotting. The man qets interviewed EVERY WEEK. People ask. He answers. He adds a bit of drama to make it all more interesting (recall his “screw Leonard, let’s get Shatner!” speeches at conventions during summer). And that’s it.
Mark my word … even if he isn’t in the movie, come X-mas 2008 he’ll be right there on the red carpet, mugging for the cameras with Pine.
#14 — I agree. Whether it would or would not be a good idea for Shatner to be in the movie is neither here nor there. But for Shatner to be lobbying like this — especially framing it as a “bad business decision” on Paramount’s part, which strikes me as disingenuous at best — just seems, well, sad.
OK,
I love the Shat as much as any Trek Fan, and would like to see him in the new movie if it can be done in such a way that we don’t waste precious time undoing what was done in Generations.
But with this movie we have a chance at a true return to the Star Trek that started it all–the original series. We’re going to see a new take on the legendary ship and crew that’s been with us for 40+ years and there are fans out there saying they won’t see this film if the shat isn’t in it?
PUH-LEEZE
We’ll all be there, and everyone knows it.
The answer is obvious: write in a scene in which Captain Pike has to be defended against court martial charges stemming from the Talos IV incident.
His defense attorney? “Denny Crane!”
[...] Shatner: Not Putting Me In Is Not Wise | TrekMovie.com Zitat: [...]
#25 “For a man who spent half his career trying to distance himself from Trek…”
I don’t think that’s been true since about the 1970’s.
I knew this would happened. Abrams casting Nimoy in this movie an not Shatner was a mistake. He scould have hired them as advisors nothing more.
What’s up with Shat? It has appeared all along that this is going to start off as Post TNG, because of Nimoy being in it, going back in time to the beginning of their friendship. Kirk is dead Post TNG. I have a feeling that THE SHAT will appear in this movie in the end. It would only be logical if Spock has to go back in time, he will make certain Kirk will not be on the Enterprise-B. What do they say “Even bad publicity is better than no publicity at all.”
The Big Giant Head earns his name
I honestly think that the only thing more pathetic than the masturbating Shatner-worshippers crying about how ‘the Shat’ isn’t in this movie… is Shatner himself crying in the press over not being in this movie. It’s the equivalent of stamping your feet and screaming in the middle of the shopping mall until Mommy gives in and buys you your favorite toy. Doubleplus ungood, Billy; bad form. Have a little dignity, for God’s sake.
I said it before, just have Kirk show up with old Spock at the end and have so reprise of the aren’t you dead, I’ve been dead before line from ST2.
Never explain how Kirk was brought back from the dead, just have him there!
ShatFan
seriously? is that what you are going with here? He was asked? Did he have to answer? Did he have to attack Abrams? Do you really think he and his agent don’t know the decision is still pending? Of course he is lobbying and more importantly he is defending himself and HIS EGO.
cant he just say “no comment” or “I had hoped it would work out” and not all this ‘unwise’ crap? Does he really think this would help?
I love the Shat…I want Kirk in STXI! But this is just unseemly!
I’ll say this if there is no Shatner in this movie, then it BETTER BE AN ASBOLUTELY MIND-BLOWING SCRIPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It WILL HAVE TO BE BETTER than anything we have seen in the movies and TOS COMBINED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It just will not work. Not as Kirk at any age, as Kirk died much younger than any Kirk Shat could pull off. The only way to avoid canon inconsistancies is to make use of the mirror universe, which has been well established through episodes in TOS, DS9, and Enterprise. Of course Kirk then would be a screaming, angry, and insane charactor, as he was in that universe. Much as Shat seems to be lately with his wining about the writers not wanting to throw in every cheap wink and nod to the audience, which would bring down the credibility of the whole film.
Leave it to Bailey to slice like a phaser beam right to the heart of this issue.
Of course, Bill wants in the movie, just like Leonard wanted into ST:TMP thirty years ago. The difference is that thirty years have passed and a number of bad decisions have been made regarding the franchise. Notice that word: franchise. As Paramount told Lucas in the seventies, “We have a space franchise”. This is (a rather large $) business decision.
We are fans. We can moan about it all we want. But in the final analysis this will be a business decision. It was made as certain way, Bill was out and he is playing the only hand he thinks he has. My opinion is that it is a bad one.
This recasting is what has been needed for a long time. Let’s wait and see. Can it really be any worse than “Q Pid”?
At the time of posting: only 973 to go, Dennis!
Shatner did one without Nimoy. Why can’t Nimoy do one without Shatner?
3 – I agree with you 100%. If it doesn’t work with the film, then I’m sorry, as much as I want it to happen, it shouldn’t happen.
Well said, DaddyTodd! Leonard and De bowed out of Generations because they didn’t want to play backup. Walter and Jimmy were all too happy to step in as I recall.
958 to go, Dennis.
38 ^ very happy I bought into ‘!’ stock.
I hope Shatner is in this movie, but wont cry if he isn’t
Oh no….another thread creating the false dichotemy of shat lovers and shat haters. The real debate is between the tiny group that feel that shat MUST be in the film and the rest of us who would like it, but can live without it. Does that make us ’shatner haters’ because we dont dictate to the film makers.
They have said they will try and work it out…and so that is good enough. Clearly none of us have read the script and so if he isnt in it, then he just didnt fit…enf of story. That should be enough for everyone…including Shatner himself.
I have to say that the way he has handled himself during this has lowered him in my eyes. I still love him, but jesus Bill….calling Abrams names…come on
THIS TOPIC IS GETTING REALLY OLD!!
I don’t get it. The have a finished script, Shatner is not in the script. So, how are they going to put Shatner in the film after all? Mmmmm……. my bet is that they have more than one script in case Shatner is in.
Bill, you shouldn’t have accepted the part where they killed you off if you weren’t ready to stop playing the character.
That said, he’ll be in it.
46- Soup Nazi
what did BIll call him? I didn’t see that in the interview….
Personally I think Shatner’s getting way too greedy. He’s been the star of 7 out of 10 Star Trek films, isn’t that enough?
Kirk is dead. He should get over it!!
JJ and his team shouldn’t screw up their chance to re-launch the franchise just to appease Shatner and his fans.
I love Shatner (which ST fan doesn’t?) but come on everyone you’ve got to think with your head and not your heart.
It already reached CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/10/26/people.williamshatner.ap/index.html
How arrogant of the Shat.
Bill, your days of camo\hogging is over. Get a life!
Begin the movie with Spock entering the Nexus to kill Picard before Picard can lead Kirk to his death. Then Spock & Kirk go about their merry little way and we even have a convenient time travel device.
In the meantime, later when they inevitably decide to recast the TNG crew and do a prequel, Patrick Stewart can argue with the production team about not being in the movie because of what Abrams did “way back in Trek XI.”
Really, come on.
JJ get Shatner !
I’m bored of this s**t now.
This doesnt look good on Shatner or the new movie. I agree with Anthony. Make the decision for crying out loud.
Either way I dont care.
I honestly dont care any more.
How desperate Bill is.
*sighs*
Also I’d just like to point out, the MASS AUDIENCE (of whom this movie will be aimed at) honestly dont give a s**t either. Whether or not a few Trek fans have their panties in a bunch wont affect the bean counters.
Not one bit.
Frank Welker didnt play Megatron in Transformers. Boy, was that a mistake…
Movie patrons who are not mainstream Trek fans will likely go see the movie based more on the character names (cultural icons) rather than the actors themselves. That will be good for opening weekend.
However, I do believe that not including Mr. Shatner will reduce the repeat business of the core audience.
Personally, having watched ST since it premiered on NBC, I will be less inclined to go more than once or purchase the DVD if Mr. Shatner is not featured as Kirk.
Putting Shatner in the movie will only cause the stench of the franchise’s rotten corpse to infect the new movie.
Please its time for a new direction. No more creating bad stories to get around previosuly seen events – James T. Kirk is dead. Let the franchise breathe with new life and new ideas, and not having to clean up the stench of Paramount’s bad decisions over the last 20 years.
He’ll be in it. It would be monumentally stupid not to.. kindof like if they made a Star Wars movie about the origin of Vader that didn’t have him slingin the blade.. oh wait.. stupid hollywood.. all I got was the stupid NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I’m really tired of the debate. Either put him in or don’t. I don’t care anymore. I just wish the site would start posting reviews of the new remastered episodes again. I miss them.
46 – Exactly. We’re looking for the best possible film and the best possible future for the franchise. If Shatner’s in it, wonderful, but it has to be worthy of James T. Kirk and not something that kills the movie. I seriously doubt any of us hate Shatner.
If I was making this movie I would keep Shatner’s cameo at the end of the film (which if the plot rumour is to be believed is about Spock saving young Kirk and “re-booting” the time-line, in which Kirk doesn’t die in Generations) a big secret. Shatner would then play along pretending to be greatly offended, thus creating lots of publicity for the movie. Genius.
1. The AP is reporting this, just as the AP was publishing the story last week about Shatner having a cameo in the film. Nothing about this, but I just wanted to point this out.
2. The story has now way beyond played itself out. TIme to put this one to rest once and for all, before Shatner destroys further any chances he has of being in this film at all.
The story’s made it to the front page of Yahoo.
Actually…it can be done.
Kirk was (or will be) born in 2233. He vanished into the Nexus in 2293 at the age of 60. Inside the Nexus he doesn’t age.
He finally exits the ridiculous plot device in 2371. Physcially he is still 60.
Spock was born in 2230. His last appearance is in Unification, 5th season of TNG making it around 2369…so at that time Spock is 139.
Unification took place in 1991 our time, so Nimoy has aged 16 years.
So, let’s say the “current” time frame for Nimoy is 2385.
If he does something during his time travel to warn Kirk about the bridge
and Kirk lives…then Kirk would be physically 14 years older than he was when he went into the Nexus. 60+14=74…Shatner is 76 I believe. Close enough.
At LEAST get him to help advise the new actors!
Its not Shatner’s fault that Paramount screwed the franchise – but unfortunataly trying to unwind a decision made a decade ago will only cause the NEW story to suffer.
Please don’t do it.
Mirror-universe stuff was fun, but anytime use Mirror-Universe to right past wrongs is just stupid and confusing and leads to narrative dead-ends.
I’m not even that big of a fan of Nimoy being in it, because that dictates time-travel..and guess what Star Trek is NOT all about time travel. Some of the great stories have been because of time travel…..but you have to work to establish foundations before you start screwing with time. Look no further than Enterprise.
#59- I’ll second that. This is all a big publicity stunt.
And the more I hear this stuff, the more I want him to STAY DEAD.
I meant to say “not befitting of him and his character” sorry.
#26, you may be right in that. But, he is obviously trying to force JJ’s hand by doing this out in the open, and that’s just not a Kirk maneuver. Kirk would corner JJ and give his own ideas on how to bring him into the film, and if JJ declined then that meant a few chops to the neck and a couple punches.
We all know Mr. Shatner has an enormous ego, and that’s part of the charm, but if he can’t sit on the sidelines and allow his friend and equally important co-star Leonard Nimoy have this moment, then that reflects rather poorly on him. For all we know, the story could be written so that Nimoy’s scenes actually depend on the fact that Kirk is dead, and to undo that would undo the narrative flow of the whole story.
Would it be fair to Nimoy to alter the course of the story just for the purpose of bringing Kirk back? I believe that is the real question to be answered.
CNN : Shatner: How come I’m not in new ‘Star Trek’?
LMAO!
Hilarious! Love it!
The best he could get would be a flashback cameo, which he most likely would turn his nose up at.
Sadly the Shats inflated ego is making him look like a big ass.
64:
AP did not report that shat would have a cameo…WENN did. And this site has repeatedly stated that WENN wire service cannot be trusted…they were merely using a single comment by an editor (not a story, but a forum comment) as their source. Plus AP is actually quoting Shatner.
Could it be that they want to surprise us when we see the movie? Imagine the audiences reaction seeing Shatner in their and they thought he wouldnt be. Could he play Kirk’s father or wasn’t their still a Federation Captain to be cast? Maybe he could play an Admiral giving Pike or Kirk their orders?
#66
I’m sorry, but no.
Any mention of the Nexus or Veridian III or falling off a bridge and this movie will be dead. Stone dead.
People will walk out the movie theatre going “what the f**k was the end about?”
As for Shats ego.. Its not like he doesn’t have anything attached to the character.. he DID write all those books.. and they weren’t bad.
“You see, when Shatner made the mistake of agreeing to be in the flawed Generations movie, he agreed to kill Kirk… not just his Kirk, but Chris Pine’s Kirk as well. ”
Well, not if Pine is playing Kirk before he took command of the Enterprise. How do you reckon he’s killed his younger self?
Yes! And my same analyis goes for using the Nexus/Time Travel – don’t use that cop out! It wasn’t done well in Generations…and going back to it is just asking for trouble…
73 – Sorry, Anthony. I was going from one of the Shatner cameo links last week, that credited WENN and the AP for the story.
The Shatner article is now the second most popular article on cnn.com!
This is Shatner being Shatner. Remember before new Kirk was cast, when the question he was always being asked was who should succeed him? He would reply, ‘He needs to be very handsome, and have lots of women, and be very rich…’. Bill has fun with interviews.
Does he feel that he’d be a boon to the new film? I’m sure he does. As do many of his fans. But people are really over-reacting if they say he’s begging. Please. They forget that for the past few years, Shatner’s popularity HAS eclipsed that of the franchise. He’s been on top of the world while Star Trek has been six feet under, killed off by you know who. Bitterness is not what’s in store here. It’s only a matter of time before Shatner and Pine meet and then appear together somewhere all buddy/buddy, be it a convention, talk show, or whatever. Does anyone really think that’s not going to happen?
#57 “Frank Welker didnt play Megatron in Transformers. Boy, was that a mistake…”
Nor did anyone in the general public even know the name Frank Welker. Not the case with Shatner.
And I’m not worried. I’m betting he WILL be in there.
Anthony: Here is a link that has WENN as the source, and AP listed below as the source, as well:
http://www.newswatch50.com/entertainment/story.aspx?content_id=930c34c8-fdb4-4522-887e-226b30dfd056
Maybe when it comes out on DVD there will be alternate ending with (Old Kirk ) Shatner.
With articles like this, it really distances Shatner from his character of Kirk. While I admired and looked up to Kirk all my life, I now find myself in complete disbelief of the tasteless approach he has taken with this film. It’s just wrong. I really hope that paramount and JJ’s crew don’t buckle under this type of schoolyard bullying.
#81
“Nor did anyone in the general public even know the name Frank Welker. Not the case with Shatner”
Perhaps, but its hard for us, as trek fans, to get a sense of perspective on an issue such as this. We have an inflated sense of Trek popularity.
Ask someone who ISNT a trek fan whether they care about William Shatner in the movie or not, and honestly, they dont care either way. The only question is
“Is the film any good?”
Personally I don’t think Paramount or the production team is pissed about this at all. In Hollywood, any publicity is good, and this back and forth keeps STXI in the news, and Trekers everywhere debating…well okay, they’d be doing that anyway…
If the money is right, if the part is more than a walk on cameo, if the explanation of dead man walking makes sense…then Shatner is probably in it.
I would like to see the original Kirk one more time, especially in a scene with the original Spock. Shatner should be in the film.
On the other hand, if it doesn’t work out, and the Shat isn’t in, I’ll still be there to see if Pine & Company can fill the original cast’s shoes or if
it turns out to be Butch & Sundance: The Early Days.
shatner simply must be in this movie. it will seem incomplete without him abrahams said that he’ was desperately searching for a way to get him into the film’. so whats happened? where there’s a will theres a way. something would be missing if he werent. in this. it wouldnt be right.
come on guys make it happen. star trek needs shatner and nimoy in this movie to hand over the baton properly and not like the half baked effort that was generations.
cheers
greg
UK
I’d like to share one distinction that may be holding back Shatner’s involvement. It would seem that with the new movie being a Spock-centric story, the main thrust of the film is to have an old Spock interact with a young Spock sometime in the past. This is the “spine” to the story. That being said, it would then be more effective to have Shatner appear, if at all, near the very end of the film. The reason being that the storyline of the movie is not about rescuing old Kirk from dying, but that the “icing on the cake” is that he doesn’t die in an altered timeline. In other words, the symmetry of the Star Trek saga comes full circle and provides effective closure for all fans who ever lamented Kirk’s passing. The movie isn’t about saving old Kirk, it’s about some other major event, but it just happens that we have Kirk being brought back to life as an added bonus!
Now, here is where I think the producers are having great difficulty with that idea. Since the new film is, in effect, attempting to relaunch a franchise of Trek movies showcasing the “new” young crew, then the movie, by sheer necessity, has to “fade to black” at the end with the audience watching THAT world, not the old one. Probably, as it stands now, you’ve got Nimoy having some dramatic discussion with Quinto at the climax of the film, before disappearing forever. It would be tremendously jarring to have the audience “ripped” from the new world they just came to accept, simply to switch back (at the very end) to the old Trek world so we can have the Christmas present of seeing old Kirk walk off into the sunset with Spock. That punchline scene would diminish what is probably, at this point, an airtight crackerjack script ready to film next month….anybody think I’m close with this guess?
No need to rehash Generations. You can handle his revival in two lines of dialogue as an accomplished fact and move on with the story.
Unfortunately for the film, if Shatner is not in it, his absence very well could remain the dominant “Star Trek” story throughout 2008.
And for many years to come, people will be wondering why, with one last chance to reunite Nimoy and Shatner, the opportunity was missed.
#75 Jon1701—
I said it could be done…not that it could be done well.
So much for his lack of being in the movie NOT being mainstream news…
It’s a bad decision, and given that they strung it out, the bad publicity is going to cost them money.
I know I won’t pay to see this movie without him.
And the idea that SHATNER is being tasteless is laughable. He’s not the one who got everyone’s hopes up. He’s not the one who had the control and did nothing. The finger of blame can only point at the producers.
I agree with Anthony–it’s time for Abrams to either put him in, or just own up to the fact that he was just using the name for publicity.
The Shatner article is now the most-viewed entertainment article on Yahoo News.
RaveOn
that seems to be an artifact of that site. see this link:
http://www.hollywood.com/news/Shatner_to_Appear_in_New_Star_Trek_Movie/4949771
that story was from WENN. The difference is quite apparent, just do a google news search for shatner now and choose \’remove duplicates.\’ you will see this new story listed in dozens, maybe hundreds of places from CNN, to Forbes, to various news papers, to even places like NewsMax.
WENN and AP are not in the same league…not even in the same sport. The other \’cameo\’ story was from WENN and not AP for certain, and it is pretty clear they used the filmsy comment from AICN as their \’source\’. The AP are quoting Mr. Shatner. It may be possible that WENN use AP\’s infrastrucutre to distribute their stories….but AP never reported that Shat had a cameo
So I really dont see your point. Are you saying this story is just as believable as the previous one….because I can guarantee you that it is not…the other one is BS and this one is genuine. I guarantee you that Shatner is not currently in the film
Frank Welker was not in Transformers, and I can honestly say I have not seen the movie.
totally agree gallifrey1983. well put. however i do agree that shatner should never have agreed to do generations. i still to this day dont know why he agreed to have kirk killed off.
your right, this would a be fantastic opportunity missed and probably the last time it could happen. time is ticking on.
Oh please Bill give it a rest! It’s not all about you. He’s just sounding pathetic at this point.
I can’t believe the religious devotion to the actor who played Kirk. Kirk died get over it people. Shatner is not Kirk.
Shatner over the years has mocked the franchise, said he is sorry, and made a lof of money off of it. Now he is just a old man who can’t let go..can’t understand that Trek was never just the Captain Kirk show. \
It was a show about the human condition. Yes, a lof of that human condition involved Kirk, Spock and Bones, but Kirk was not the alpha and omega.
Yes,Shatner’s acting and overacting is what has kept the show funny and refreshing, but in the end, he is just an actor.
Don’t let Shatner dictate the future of the Trek franchise.
Regardless of whether Shatner SHOULD be in the film or not, I agree that JJ needs to settle this question sooner rather than later.
For one thing, too much of the fan chatter is centered on the Shat when I would rather hear their views on the many other elements of what appears to be a promising production. All the Shatner talk is distracting from what I care to hear more about.
Might I add that it does seem a little disrespectful to Bill not to have given him a definitive answer at this point.
“the main thrust of the film is to have an old Spock interact with a young Spock sometime in the past. This is the “spine” to the story”
Harry — Are we really sure XI is the Spock-squared show?
I honestly hope that Nimoy has a somewhat longish and classy cameo, but I would feel silly watching two Spocks have lengthy scenes together. That would just have too much of a comic book feel to it. Likewise, while I hope Shatner’s in the movie, I want the torch passed in the early minutes of the film. And no backsies. Let the new cast carry the story. This is not TOS, it’s a new Trek based on TOS.
imho
ps- Now, can we please get back to speculating on the design of the new E and the length (or lack thereof) of Rand’s skirt?
I don’t buy the idea that there is a plan to keep Shatner’s appearance a secret. Not only would Shatner’s involvement be a big marketing boost for the film, you can’t keep that big of a secret in this day and age.
The Generations script hit the net in March 1994, 8 months before release. The Nemesis script, complete with commentary, was out about 10 months before release. In the Star Wars arena, extremely detailed plot outlines were floating around for Episode II by January 2001, over 16 months before release. Once shooting starts, spoilers abound.
The longer this drags on, the more it will hurt the marketability of this reboot if Shatner is not in it.
#40:”We are fans. We can moan about it all we want. ”
Yes, we can! We can and we will! And as proud ShatNerds, it’s our job to keep the all-day, all-night Dancing Vigil alive.
“At the time of posting: only 973 to go, Dennis!”
We can do it!
I’m sorry he won’t be in it, think it’s a mistake for the film. I don’t understand how people think he’s singlehandedly manipulating multibillion $ CBS Paramount or acting selfishly. Anyway, I hope people enjoy the movie for their money when it comes out. What is it about Kirk that gets him into trouble with anybody but Roddenberry running this show?
Wow #101–
One might think that calling people names like that would be considered flame baiting.
ShatNerds?
If De Kelley were still alive I’d sooner see him in the movie interacting with Nimoy “one last time” instead of Shatner to be perfectly honest. Given that Shatner stopped ‘acting’ more than a decade ago I wouldn’t be particularly jazzed about seeing him as Kirk. Did you see his smarmy ‘performance’ as Kirk in the Star Fleet academy game. Christ, let old kirk remain dead, Please.
#88…Well Harry, try this on for size…
What if the Shat-as-Kirk cameo happens at the beginning of the film?
What if Spock (Nimoy version) finds out about this Romulan time travel plot and seeks out the advice of a friend about what to do. The friend…
not McCoy, not Picard…turns out to be Kirk. His resurrection could be explained by some brief dialogue — Spock went back to rescue him in 2372 say, and brought him back. The age thing still works and when Spock explains the Romulan plot Kirk could joke, “I’m going to die…again?”
Anyway you slice this it’s not pizza. As much as I want to see Nimoy and as much as I would like to see Shatner, the more I think about it, the more I wonder whether the right choice would have been to recast, reboot and forget about including anyone from TOS.
It wouldn’t matter if it were the beginning, end or middle. The point is that he would be in it. I’m thrilled he’s speaking out.
All Abrams has to do to fix this is put him in the movie.
I think it comes down to the fact that Shatner “allowed” Kirk to be killed off in Generations. It took an entire movie to bring back Spock. This new adventure will be about the young crew That leaves no time for a major plot concerning the resurrection of the good Captain.
82 – Here’s a better way to look at this:
AP = respected, independent news organization
WENN = tabloid
End of story.
It would be wonderful if having Shatner as Kirk worked and enhanced the story, but it sounds like the story they came up with has an integral, relevant part for the older Spock, but not Kirk (he is dead after all). Shatner says that since this is science fiction, they can do anything, but I think resurrecting one main character is plenty. The filmmakers in this case seem more interested in making decisions for cinematic purposes, not on how much money they can make. That will pay off down the road. A great movie without Shatner is a lot more appealing than a bad movie with him. And I don’t particularly want to see some stupid contrivance just to get him in the film.
OK people….lets try for once not to turn this into flame fest. too many of these things devolve into wars. I hate to sound like a dad….but I will close this thing down and start banning people if it goes bad again
#97 “Now he is just a old man who can’t let go..can’t understand that Trek was never just the Captain Kirk show.”
Yes, it’s amazing how he can hang on so desperately while he’s appearing on tv daily, making millions and winning Emmys. Please. Like I said, Shatner’s answers may not be humble enough for some, but the man hardly needs to beg. He wants to be included and he should be. He probably will be.
As for Trek not being the Captain Kirk show, he WAS the main character. And Paramount has had to go back to the TOS well since people stayed away in droves from Enterprise and the last few films. So in a way, yeah, it kinda IS the Captain Kirk show. If it weren’t for Shatner and TOS, there’d be no Star Trek 2008!
#105 – “What if the Shat-as-Kirk cameo happens at the beginning of the film?”
That has me thinking. And I know many would be up in arms at this, but…
What if Kirk’s presence at the beginning of the film (i.e. Kirk as a very-very-old man) were actually the clue that led Spock to try to “fix” history–because Kirk was *supposed* to die? IOW, what if this were Spock’s “City on the Edge of Forever” — in order to restore history, Kirk must die?
No, I really don’t want that — way too fanwankish. But people wouldn’t see it coming….
This is why I don’t think they should have brought back Nimony either – either bring back everybody or no one….Shatner is using Nimoy’s appearance to whine about his lack of apperance..Guess what Shatner – you decided to participate in the murder of Kirk because you needed the cash…..Nimoy was smart enough to say no.to Generations.
106 – StillKirok, that’s way easier said than done. It would have to be done in such a way that it doesn’t disrupt the rest of the movie. I mean, what would you rather see – a choppy movie with Shatner as Kirk in it, or a tight movie without him? I’d love to see a tight movie with him in it, but the options are very limited for that happening. If it disrupted the rest of the film’s flow to have him appear, I’d rather he wasn’t in it, and for it to be the best film it can be. He can’t be shoved in haphazardly – it needs to be done the right way.
They did bring back Nimoy. And Nimoy, the guy who’s judgment everyone agrees is top notch, has said that the movie would be better with Shatner in it.
Nimoy–the guy who actually MADE a successful Star Trek film.
Couldnt agree with Anthony more, in fact i’ve been saying it myself: Time for JJ or Mr Orci to definitely break silence.
As for the, only if it works for the story etc. Nimoy is the ultimate authority as far as im concerned re: quality control, and he said the movie WOULD be better with Shatner in it. He’s read the script. He knows better than anyone.
And it didnt take a whole film to bring Spock back. It took ONE torpedo tube crash landing and one mind meld. The rest of the movie was about them FINDING Spock, not ressurrecting him, it had been done in the prior movie. Just like Generations had given the non-sensical nexus formula in Generations in which Kirk can still live. In fact Kirk could come out of the Nexus and be the one that warns Spock that the timeline is being changed as anything happening outside the Nexus wouldnt affect Kirk.
Shatner stabbed Nimoy in the back with his comments today. How Shatner could ever look Nimoy in the face again..I don’t know…
dreaming of Rand… not thinking of Shat… dreaming of Rand…
I wonder if Shatner is aware of the significance of the words “God bless his heart” in Southern culture. Down here, it’s been referred to it as the Southern Belle Slam. It carries a lot of meaning, not always meant as a blessing. It can mean anything from “that boy don’t know any better” to “damn you/him/her/it!” to “f-off and die.”
Bless his heart.
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista };-|
peacefull thoughts of Rand… checkerboard hairdo…. red velour underoos… mmmmmm
Gee ummm…Get Shat…You know I just want a cool fun and adventure filled TREK film. I can live without Mr. Shatner is in it. I have nothing at all against him. But whether he is in it or not is not the end of the world. Looking back I do have to wonder why he went and did the ST:GENERATIONS now. Oh well the past is the past. But it is STAR TREK where anything can happen.
Beam me up.
Anthony –
Sorry, I really didn’t have a point to the AP listed on both. It was merely an observation.
Actually, I have more faith in this story actually from the AP than the rumor last week, simply due to the truth and detail in this one.
All I want is a good Trek movie, and to see TOS era put on the big screen in all its glory!
does TOS have sonic showers?
Shatner didn’t stab Nimoy at all. That’s ridiculous.
The guy is absolutely upset that he was used. Don’t kill the messenger. He’s saying the same things his fans have been saying. And he’s right. Shatner would do more for this movie than Nimoy, who has been out of acting. And Nimoy is an OUTSTANDING addition.
Nimoy brings a lot to the table, but he’s just not in Shatner’s league in bringing in money.
#114–HOW to get Kirk in the movie is the easiest part. The idea that they CAN’T do it is a copout. And the thought that Kirk could HURT the movie is ridiculous, especially if there’s a time travel thing going on.
There is absolutely NO WAY that this movie would be worse with Shatner as older Kirk in it.
And again, Nimoy–considered by many to be the ultimate judge–who has actually SEEN the script–said it would be better WITH Shatner.
Nimoy is on our side.
As far as I am concerned the original crew era ended at the end of Star Trek VI when the whole cast signed their names on screen to the original theme music.
I would like to remember Kirk and crew as they were sailing off into the unknown to what awaited them.
I don’t want to remember Kirk’s last words being: “It was ….FUN….Oh my!” The acting was cheesy and the death of Kirk did close the door on any future movies involving the younger Kirk convincing us he was in mortal danger.
The only answer is a new time line with it’s own canon. Not to drag the remnants of the original crew back for one last bow! They had their time. I’m not crazy with Nimoy being in it and I hope his part is more outside the timeline than interacting with it. As has been said I don’t want to see too much of him with the younger Spock.
After the shameless tactics Shatner is using to force his way into the picture I am convinced I don’t want him in it.
And to those who keep saying that Shatner deserves an answer–has it dawned on you that the answer was probably NO and he can’t swallow it?
#125
Actually Shatner’s saying NO I havent been asked. Im not in the film.
The producers are saying MAYBE we havent made that decision (for too long now).
And the Trek Movie readers are saying YES we want him in it (a recent poll of a few hundred had an overwhelming majority wanting him in the film with only 1/10th not wanting him in it).
It’s time for the definitive YES or NO from the MAYBE crowd, the Shat and the fans have spoken again…. and again…. and again….
Jessica Alba? Not Kate Bosworth, no. Maybe Scarlett Johansson? Who will be Rand?
Ways Not to Bring Back Shatner
Anything involving Q
Anything involving the Guardian (City on the Edge of Forever)
As a holodeck program with Riker and Troi
The last 90 years were just a dream.
Cloning
Shatner as his father, grandfather, uncle or god forbid, mother.
Shatner as April.
Shatner as a ghost.
Shatner as a hologram.
Shatner as narrator.
Shatner as a flashback.
Shatner as created by Dr. Soong
Shatner as the Alternative Universe Kirk
shatner IS capt kirk. he played a major part in making the show what it was. we need a definate answer so we can all get excited if hes in it or if hes not then we can start to hopefully try to get used to it. all this speculation isnt good as its dividing the trek nation.
he apparently wants to be in it, the fans want him in it. it makes sense for him to be in it so what the problem!
greg
UK
#117 … “Shatner stabbed Nimoy in the back with his comments today. How Shatner could ever look Nimoy in the face again..I don’t know…”
LOL. Now I’m convinced you’re just kidding around with us. Every Star Trek fan knows those two are best friends and always will be. Stop being silly. :)
#125 “After the shameless tactics Shatner is using to force his way into the picture I am convinced I don’t want him in it.”
Whether you agree with what he says or not, he’s merely giving his honest answers to questions posed to him. And, yes, playing it up a bit for added effect. Like he always does. He’s not trying to force anything.
His comments about Nimoy are condescending ..if you can’t see that I’m sorry. he threw him under the bus. “bless his heart” as someone mentioned earlier is the equivalent of saying “I know he means well but..or he is a little slow” or some other condescing feature.
The fact is that Shatner, for whatever reasons – maybe his insatiable need for cash, or him being tired of Kirk and ST in general, agreed to have Kirk killed. He could have prevented that by not being in the movie. I’m pretty sure Nimoy was offered a small role and said forget it.
So Kirk is dead. Spock is not. End of story.
Star Trek is bigger than William Shatner.
Time for some new blood.
This ongoing development reminds me of the troubles that the movie studios had with another well-loved television franchise that tried to re-invent itself. Does anybody remember the Lone Ranger?
The producers made the bad decision to not only ignore the original star of the television series, Clayton Moore, but forced him to wear wraparound sunglasses instead of his famous mask in public.
What does this have to do with Shatner? Does anyone remember “The Legend of The Lone Ranger” or have it on their DVD shelf?
Let’s revisit “Star Trek (2008)” in 25 years and find out if they continue down this path.
If there’s a way to logically fit Mr. Shatner in, I would ask JJ Abrams to consider it. The movie would do better with him than with. Comments?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_the_Lone_Ranger_(1981_film)
dalek, please do not misrepresent TrekMovie.com polls….only around 30% stated that he ‘must’ be in the movie and about 10% said he should not be in the move with the rest somewhere in between.
it is true most trekkies who visit this site and vote in the poll want him, but not true to say most fee it is a requirement.
anyone can visit the poll achieves to see for themselves (link below current poll)
By the way the current poll shows that this shatner issue actually ranks below questions about canon and the design of the enterprise as ‘big questions’ about the film
Picking Scarlett Johansson as Rand
Would sure draw a line in the sand
Her beauty’s renowned
casting her would be sound
Anyone else would seem to be bland!
This is tired.
Just put Shatner in the film.
I noticed that about the poll to Anthony. Glad to know that others aren’t so shatcentric. I mean who can’t wait to see Enterprise!? I”m more concerned how the chacter of Kirk is treated.
I understand why Shatner feels hurt that he isn’t in the film, but I’m getting real sick of his hubris. If you want to say you are personally disappointed at not being in it, that’s fine and I’m sympathetic, but don’t try to tell me that you must be in it to “ensure good box office” when this is going to be a huge-budget, massively-marketed, extremely-high-production values film that is, not to mention, supposed to appeal to new audiences not just Trekkers.
It’s like when someone breaks up with their girlfriend or boyfriend and instead of admitting they feel rejected and hurt they instead say something like “I don’t care, I’m just sad because I know you are making the wrong choice.” Anyone ever know someone like that? It’s horrible…
I think I lost my sympathy for the Shat-in-Trek 08 cause when he said in that one interview that he would absolutely not accept a cameo in it, that he’d have to do a big role. This has nothing to do with the film’s box office prospects and everything to do with the Shat’s ego.
Rand is grand, she makes me feel like a man.
Rand? Yeah, in this movie she’ll crash a shuttle craft into a Vulcan’s head, killing Spock’s predecessor, and kicking the movie off.
I would agree that J.J. needs to make a decision on Shatner. Are they simply stumped on how to fit him in? Are they short on budget? Are they fighting with Paramount? Comic Con was months ago, and they keep making statements that they are working on a way to get him in there.
Honestly, however they get Shatner would just feel forced, waste valuable character time for the others and be pointless. Unless the whole movie was about reanimating Kirk, just let him be. He really ought to Shat-up.
#133 i didnt misrepresent the poll
Must Have (33%)
Would Prefer (33%)
Thats 66% which is the majority, who said they want him in the movie.
Must Have and would prefer = want him in the movie.
only 10% said they didnt want him in.
There is nothing infactual about what I said. The majority in that poll want him in the film. The minority don’t.
The other poll isn’t about Shatner its about a multitude of things.
Shatner should really be in the film — it’ll be more fun and make a lot more money!
In fact, Grace Lee Whitney should make a cameo at the start of the film, passing the torch to the ultra-smokin’ new Rand.
Danya, J.J. Abrams said he wouldn’t even ask Shatner to do a cameo, because it wouldn’t be fair to him or the fans. Also, Shatner again is not initiating these videos he makes. Articles are being posted on major SCIFI websites or in regular print saying he is in the movie, and he is responding to them.
If there are no red velous underoos and go-go boots in this movie, I will not go… more than ten times.
#116: “Couldnt agree with Anthony more, in fact i’ve been saying it myself: Time for JJ or Mr Orci to definitely break silence.”
It would seem to be to their advantage to do so. There may be reasons for them not to that can’t be reasonably discussed in public, or there may be unresolved issues.
The truth is if this movie turns out to be any good people will go and see it with or without Shatner. That’s pretty much a fact.
I understand Generations wasn’t that much of a hit comparatively, and that included Shatner.
#144:”Also, Shatner again is not initiating these videos he makes. Articles are being posted on major SCIFI websites or in regular print saying he is in the movie, and he is responding to them.”
No excuse. There’s no reason for him to go on and on, and self-dramatize, when asked simple questions. Most performers who are passed over for roles in films or who do not negotiate deals to their satisfaction don’t make public shows of themselves over it.
For the love of Pete! Enough already. Is this going to stop?
How many times do we have to listen to this same broken record. Mr. Shatner is sounding like the only kid in town who didn’t get an ice cream from the ice cream truck.
A few weeks ago I was indifferent one way or the other about Mr. Shatner being in the film. My main concern is a good story since the last two movies sucked! With all Mr. Shatner’s public whining now, this is becoming silly and adolescent. Someone please tell this man to shut up!
This is not an election, he’s not a politican, he’s not running for office and I’ve had it with his self righteous rhetoric.
As Pete Townshend once said “Who the @#$%^ are you” Bill?
426 dtST
Actually, there is a reason for him to go on and on.
He’s a public figure constantly being asked the same question. Since Abrams isn’t talking, he’s answering the question and telling the truth.
This isn’t most performers. This is legend in a legendary role, where the producer told the world he was desperately trying to get him in the movie.
Yet despite that public comment, he didn’t bother to actually contact Shatner.
Abrams, to date, has botched this major issue big time.
It’s going to cost him dollars, and it’s going to cost him good will.
And now it’s mainstream news, big time.
There’s still time to fix it, but he needs to speak.
This should put to rest the speculation that Shatner is not in the film due to negotiation issues, i.e. him holding out for a meatier role or more money.
To persist with such speculation, after Shatner’s statements in the above AP article, would be to call him a liar.
Further, implicit in Shatner’s statement that he has “not been asked to be in the film” is the justification for the statement, itself:
In order to apprise us of the facts, Shatner has had to open his mouth and state them plainly. Thus, the additional speculation about the purpose of Shatner’s talk — that he’s been talking as he has in order to achieve a better negotiating position, for example — is also dispelled.
The situation with Shatner vis-a-vis the new Star Trek film would seem to be as it has appeared on its face all along. Shatner has not been asked to be in the film, and he is disappointed by this because Trek is meaningful to him and he feels left out.
No conspiracies, no collusion, no lies within lies, no angling….just a guy who feels left out and has been saying as much.
My two cents:
Don’t mess up the film in order to include Shatner. But, if it’s possible to include him, and have it be meaningful to the film (imagine the brave, new film ending with one final scene of Shatner and Nimoy, not seen together on screen as Kirk and Spock for almost 20 years, waxing philosophical about their long, adventurous lives, in the heart-felt coda of the film, after the young cast has been hitherto battle-tested and run from pillar to post) — if it’s just a matter of tweaking, imagination-jogging and logistics-massaging — do it one more time…
For the Gipper.
#150. “Yet despite that public comment, he didn’t bother to actually contact Shatner. ”
I’m afraid I’m convinced Shatner is holding back. He was maybe offered a cameo or some kind of deal he didn’t like. When asked what was said at his initial meeting with Abrams he claimed to not remember. Sounds a bit weird doesn’t it?
If they cant work Shatner AS CAPTAIN KIRK into the film (which is understandable if they cant ) then they should just cast him as J T Kirks old man (as he played his bro in Op Annihlate ) and if Shatner is offered that role he should say YES
I hope we hear of Pikes casting AND of Shanters involvement in the next couple of weeks…
There is not one bit of evidence that Shatner was contacted.
He hasn’t seen the script.
“Shatner: Not Putting Me In Is Not Wise”
No, it’s not ‘Wise’, it’s ABRAMS. First thing to do if you want the job is keep your directors straight!
Ah… the Shatnerphobia rages while the ShatNerds (luv that one Dennis) immune as they are, continue to look for the cure.
I just hope the pressure works. And there is a lot of pressure now that this has hit the mainstream. Damage control must now come into play. Will the bean counters give Shat what he wants? Will the bean counters say “NO”, and pressure JJ into making the announcement that Shat is not in the film and release the studio from blame by saying that they just couldn’t find a way to “write him in.”..despite the likely scenario that a “Shat is in” version of the script likely existed before they even talked to Leonard and BIll a year ago.
Or will the bean counters agree to Shat’s requested salary, allowing JJ and company to announce their deep regret at not finding a way to get Shat in the movie…only to deliver the surprise of the century rivaling the remastered TOS that snuck up on everyone last year.
Interesting times indeed.
“And again, Nimoy–considered by many to be the ultimate judge–who has actually SEEN the script–said it would be better WITH Shatner.”
Man, this gets tiresome. Nimoy, class act that he is (unlike some, it’s not always about him), makes a nice generic comment to the effect that he’d prefer his longtime friend and colleague to be in this movie if possible, and some just have turn it into a virtual testament to the idea that the script must be better if Shatner’s Kirk were in it. But if Nimoy truly felt strongly that was the case, he was certainly in a position to offer his suggestions for such a rewrite, and barring the producers’ cooperation, decline to appear in the film at all, just as he did with “Generations” a dozen years ago. Since that didn’t happen, I have to assume that he’s just fine with the script the way it is, however much in theory he would like to re-unite with Shatner one last time.
Honestly–if Kirk could reach as far as some of his fans, having that bridge fall out from under him would have been no problem at all.
Frankly, if Nimoy was “essential” to the script, but Shatner isn’t, Abrams has no choice from a budgetary standpoint but to say “we’d _like_ him in the movie” because they won’t want to pay him a jillion dollars to do a cameo.
If the Shatner/Nimoy favored nations clause still holds, they may not have a choice on not paying Shatner exactly what they pay Nimoy, even if he is only in the movie for 2 minutes. If that is true, they certainly aren’t going to unload the same amount of bank to get Shatner in a cameo versus Nimoy being “essential”, but, frankly, they SHOULD, because he’s Captain Kirk!!
Anthony, you often call out the pro-Shatner crowd for spamming, flame baiting and other evil internet things. But what about this new term, coined by Dennis Bailey, ShatNerds? Now used in the post above?
Why is it that the anti-Shatner crowd is allowed to do that? I choose not to respond in kind.
The strength of my pro-Shatner argument speaks for itself. I could stoop to the level of the anti-Shatner crowd, but it’s not necessary. Not only that, based on history, you would ban me.
I don’t want that.
But wouldn’t it be consistent to delete posts that flame bait from the anti-Shatner crowd? I’ve been warned by you for much less.
Just curious, because like you, I do not want to see the anti-Shatner crowd drag this thread into the mud, nor do I want to be banned.
re: 155
lol!
Abrams, Orci, and Co. must LOVE the press this movie is getting.
They are still a week or two away from starting production and everybody in Hollywood and in the industry is talking about Shatner, Nemoy, the new cast, and the fans!
I smell a hit….
Abrams just needs to make a statement reminding the general public that Kirk died in a previous movie and that putting him back in would be silly and disrespectful to the credibility of the project and all will be golden.
The press is negative. Upsetting your fan base is not a good way to get people to show up. This movie is going to tank.
162. “This movie is going to tank. ”
I really can’t take statements like this seriously.
#161–that wouldn’t work at all since:
1. This is sci-fi, and even the Yahoo article acknowledges the ease in Kirk’s return.
2. Abrams said he was trying to get Shatner in the movie–desperately. Kirk’s death was there when he made that comment.
So basically, he would have to think the fans are pretty dumb to buy into that reasoning.
What Abrams needs to do is give the people what they want and sign Shatner to this movie.
Guaranteed the fighting and negativity would stop, but the buzz would keep going.
can anyone tell me why its not good to have shatner in this movie?
greg
UK
152
I remember!
Get THE SHAT in the movie.
If he is not in the movie then after all this I am not bothering with it. I’ll take TOS remastered on DVD.
If he is there then JJ and co will have so much good will from me they can do what they like in the re-boot, pre-boot or whatever you want to call it.
WE WANT SHATNER!!!!!!!!!!!!
“can anyone tell me why its not good to have shatner in this movie?”
Isn’t he seen as something of a figure of fun these days? The new movie presumably wants to be taken seriously.
Lets hope that Abrams makes the film he originally intended to make and does not yield to the pressure of an actor or his fans. I can’t imagine Kubrick, Wells, or any other great director for that matter, changing his vision for “needs of the few, or the one”!
i just want to see him one last time, that’s all!!
Can ‘t we just have him appear at the end, walking somewhere with Spock, talking casually, those of us who know what happened in Generations will certainly go “what? why is he alive?” but who cares? the fan fic writers can come up with multitudes of explanations, multiple versions of novels can be written, Pine and Quinto can do a movie on what happened betweeen generations and XI in what, 30 years time if they want. leave it a mistery for years to come.
gotta say i’m with the ones who suggest that the needs of the film outweigh the needs of the shat. and um, just because we can do something doesn’t mean…
still, the debate is heart wrenching. people here make great passionate points about how much they want to see our original JTK, if only to wave a proper goodbye.
nevertheless, i’ve always felt shatner was pretty lousy in generations. i’m certain he spent more effort depicting kirk as an equestrian than keeping the character alive. i wasn’t keen on our heroic captain living out his nexal fantasy as a solitary kaczynski, snatchwhipped by a waving silhouette in the distance that we’d never heard of.
now his behavior is an embarassment to me. i do hope that this doesn’t get “the bean counters” to force an apearance that weakens the film.
# 166 In regard to The Shat having a decent offer to be in the movie and letting his ego get in the way, then Leonard Nimoy, JJ, and you Mr Orci should kick his arse and get him to see sense.
My protestations about Shatner are based on the notion that he has not been offered anything.
If he has, and he is being a dick, then someone he respects, like Nimoy, should tell him that.
All concerned need to work this out quickly or there are going to be some very negative feelings associated with this project for some of us, which it probably does not deserve.
My interest at a new Trek film has given way to this whole big hope that I might see Shatner as Kirk once more and see something that mends the wound of Generations.
That may well be an expectation that JJ an co. never wanted this film to have on its shoulders, but now, for many of us it has it.
If it IS Shatner who is being the arse in all this then it should be made public.
If on the other hand it is Shatner who is being treated badly it should also be out there.
You all need to just clear the air, get it out there and reach a damn conclusion.
Keep the faith.
#166–this was a mainstream media report on basically everything that’s been said to date. How much longer before JJ makes a statement or does something to actually get him in the movie?
#163–it doesn’t really matter if you take it seriously. They are coming off a movie that grossed $45 million domestically. People are down on the franchise. And now, they seem to have turned their back on Shatner, despite claiming that they were interested in him.
I don’t buy the whole, “it’s not good for the movie” argument. If they can’t figure out a way to write him in, they are not the right people. And I don’t believe that they can’t do it. They definitely have the ability. They just haven’t chosen to do so.
But this whole situation has been botched.
But not to the point where it can’t be fixed. Hell, if they could reshoot the ending of Generations (even if they still got it wrong), they can still write Shatner in.
1.) If it’s a reboot, having Shatner in it – while I love the guy – isn’t a necessity. In fact, if canon is observed, Kirk is Dead. Get over it.
2.) If the rumors regarding the story now leaking are true, young Kirk doesn’t play a major part until the last half of the movie.
3.) Old Spock is operating after Kirk died, but where not sure when. (Pre Generations, or Post). In either case, to old Spock Kirk would still be dead.
Look, I like Shatner. He will always be ‘my Captain’. But I am looking forward to seeing someone new take up the mantle. Good God – don’t force the issue and write something just for him to be in it!
Shatner’s whining – and yes, it’s embarassing – in my opinion is just spoiling the moment. If he had any grace, he’d stay quiet. If Abrams had any professionalism, he’d share the script with Shatner and risk his response.
*imagining the conversation*
“Look Bill, it just wasn’t written with an old Kirk. You’re kinda dead. And Spock’s alive.”
“uhm ok, JJ. But isn’t this sci-fi?”
“Hell yes. But we stated, and we firmly believe we need to honor canon. The fans are smart Bill. They notice that sort of thing.”
“why? we made it up as we went along. Couldn’t we just fudge it a bit for old times sakes?”
“sorry Bill They did that with Enterprise, and look what that did…”
StillKirok – Shatner has had contact with Abrams. He says so in the AP article:
“But while Shatner said he had a couple of meetings with Abrams, nothing came of it.” It’s the end of the fourth paragraph.
And hey, Roberto, since you were privy to the Shatner-Abrams meetings, you wouldn’t perhaps be able to divulge what was said, would you?
red velour underoos….
“What Abrams needs to do is give the people what they want and sign Shatner to this movie.”
Nick Meyer’s riposte to the notion of an artist “giving the people what they want” is so well-known–or should be–that I’m not even bothering to repeat it here.
And Mr. Orci, I know y’all have to be enjoying the hell out of this “controversy,” and must find the notion that it’s “bad publicity” even funnier than I do. But seriously, some of these folks are your fanbase, for better and worse, and I’m getting the feeling that until this is resolved they’re not going to get a whole lot of sleeping done. So please, be kind (like Spock or Kirk would do), and for their sake, put this matter to rest once and for all.
These are my speculative ideas about what is really going on:
1.Shatner has been offered a scene or a cameo, but he’s not happy with that. It wouldn’t be hard at all to write one in, so we must assume he doesn’t like the idea of a small cameo.
2. If he’s in the film his role must be equal to Nimoy if not moreso, these are his demands, maybe.
3. He hates the idea of another TOS cast member, even his beloved friend Leonard, taking center stage in a Trek movie without him.
I would pay good money to see a video of that first meeting between Shat and the Abrams Posse. Bob…please tell me someone recorded it! It can be on the third or fourth special edition that Paramount are bound to put out
175 —
Sure — Damon, Alex and I pitched him the basic version of the story we pitched J.J. and the studio, which we eventually went on to write.
Sadly, that’s probably all I can tell you until my Trek memoirs.
If this were my project, I would have given cameos to both Nimoy and Shatner to pass the torch, and I would have avoided time travel like the plague it has become. But what the hell do I know.
The way I look at it is, Old Spock is likely written to have some sort of companion or whatever, characters from the 24th century. Why not just take them and convert the lines to Shatner? I just don’t see how Abrams is going to get a part fitting for Shatner or comparable to Nimoy’s. Then again, Shatner has been so outspoken about being in it, they could probably get him to play Janice Rand.
179-
hell no it wasn’t recorded…although I did transcribe it from memory immediately following.
I agree, Shat…not wise at all! With all due respect, Roberto…
I’ll still go see the film, but it won’t be the same without THA SHAT!
177 –
Sadly, we don’t enjoy this publicity because if it were up to us, no one would know a thing about this movie until much later.
Also, we take no pleasure in WS’s distress.
I’m not really sure how to view this growing imbroglio, partly because I don’t think we have all the details; for all we know, Shatner may have wanted some epically disproportionate recompense (points on the gross, points on the merchandising, a Gulfstream jet, whatever) and Paramount and Bad Robot just didn’t think it was worth having him in the film for what he asked.
Roberto, since you’re here, I have a question I’d love answered – who wrote Optimus Prime’s opening monologue in Transformers, you or Alex Kurtzman? Because personally, I thought it was extraordinarily well-written.
187 –
Thanks. Generous of you. We write everything together.
I’ve visited this site daily for a long time and have never felt the desire to post feedback. But this lack of Shatner in the new flick really ticks me off.
If there was no Nimoy and no Shatner, fine. But to connect us to one of my childhood heroes to pass the torch and not the other frustrates and saddens me and will leave me wondering if I need to even partake in this re-boot.
It was bad enough that the Kirk character was killed in such a stupid meaningless manner. To think that *maybe* this could have been corrected (just speculating) in cannon and before the actor is incapable of performing further ticks me off.
I want my connection to the past in this damn reboot. I want my childhood heroes in this reboot. I want it to feel like they (Nimoy and Shatner) bless and handoff these new people in the iconic roles. If I don’t get what I want, Par won’t get my money…
Get the shat in this movie, now Please!!!
#168 shatner can laugh at himself and thats one of his endearing qualities. for me he IS captain james t kirk and always will be. i love the look of the new guys but lets hand this torch over properly shall we.
abrahams should give the fans what they want shatner as KIRK!
bring it on.
greg
UK
Thx for the comments to Roberto O., great to see the gang behind the new one stopping by. Look, I love the Shat’s protrayal of Kirk as much as the next fan in his early forties who grew up with him but hey, if it’s not meant to be then…… Captain Pike is there!!!! can not wait!
I will be taking my son a couple of time min. if the movie is great!! I expect it will be as long as the script is as good as the writers have described. For gods sakes, their fans of the show too, it has to be good! Enjoy the next year of pics interviews etc., If WS can get in there it’s icing on the cake, if not enjoy the heck out of LM and his aged pointy ears, I will be.
182 Greg2600: “Then again, Shatner has been so outspoken about being in it, they could probably get him to play Janice Rand.”
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
Get me a spoon to gouge that image from my brain!
Anyone else find it amusing that the director of Star Trek V is giving business advice to guys behind Lost and Transformers?
OK, Roberto., you heard our Grand Wazir – put a bullet in this shit(ner) and sent it to the glue factory. LOL :D Seriously, if you were a gambling man, straight up, what sort of book would you make on getting him in front of the camera? 50/50? 30/70? 10/90? Or Ron Paul getting elected? LMAO :D
Mr Nimoy read the script for Star Trek Generations and thought the script was not up to snuff–it needed work. There were problems and reservations he had and he made that known to Rick Berman. Mr Berman said there wasn’t any time to address Mr Nimoy’s concerns so Mr Nimoy smartly passed on the film.
Mr Shatner read the same script that Mr Nimoy read. And he DID NOT have any problems or issues with the script. Or if he did, he did not make them known. I would wager that if he said, I won’t be in Generations until you address these concerns and these issues that Berman would’ve been up a creak with out a paddle – they needed him in the film. Shatner had a big roll to play. It was, after all, the death of Kirk film.
Mr Shatner agreed to be in Generations–a stinker of a movie if you ask me–and he agreed to the death of Kirk as envisioned by the writers. He did not ask them to change a thing. It took a test audience to make them reshoot the horrible death scene, and it still stunk. The time for Mr Shatner to speak up was when Mr Berman handed him that terrible screenplay where his character was killed. The time to speak up was when the studio started talking about the next Next Generation movie–First Contact. Mr Shatner could’ve brought his idea of resurrecting Kirk to the table then.
The new movie is not a RETURN OF THE OLD KIRK story. It is not a story like the Search for Spock, where the character is brought back to life. Why? Because that is not the story Mr Orci and Mr Kurtzman wrote. For Mr Shatner to except them to REWRITE their script in an effort to PUT him into the movie is an act of hubris on his part. It’s shamful. And as much as I love what Mr Shatner brought to the role of Kirk and to Star Trek (minus Star Trek V), he needs to shut up. Period. He needs to bow out gracefully. He needs to respect that the story Mr Orci and Mr Kurtzman wanted to write is not the story that he wants: The resurrection of Kirk. He wrote that story. It’s called The Return. And, sorry, it’s not part of canon.
I’m okay with this. I just want to a good story. And I want it executed properly. And I believe that is what I will get come December 2008.
Thank you for reading. Now stop surfing the internet and go read a book.
One wonders if the Transformers fan base had this level of passion or if it was a different kind. I wonder how it compares in Mr. Orci’s eyes.
Mr. Shatner’s distress is unfortunate.
#128 RDL “Shatner as his father, grandfather, uncle or god forbid, mother”
Hey, RDL, I think you may have hit on the solution regarding Shatner being in the film when you listed the roles you WOULDN’T want to see him portray!!
William Shatner could play a young Jim Kirk’s GRANDMOTHER!!
Think about it!! Movies like Some Like It Hot, Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire were very entertaining with this theme!
Oooh, the Shat in a flower print dress and a grey curly wig (no, not one of his earlier ones) waddling after a young James, who’s packing to go off to Starfleet…..”now Jimmy, don’t forget to pack your undies!”
Now we’re talking!
You laugh, but do you know how many people would pay good money to see THAT??
Please people….Please.
This is all about Money…MONEY!
Of course they have offered him a part, of course!
He is holding out for more money than they want to pay him. That is why he is talking about it all the time, to build pressure on them to give him what he wants.
Who will cave first?
#4:” I do not think there is a sole on this planet who does not know who he is.”
There are billions.
” He definitly would bring in box office reciepts more than Cruise would.”
The day that there’s *any* evidence that Shatner can bring in a sizable *fraction* of Cruise’s audience he’ll be able to get a leading role in a non-Trek movie.
Hasn’t happened yet. :lol:
195 – re: Generations, btw Nimoy wanted Generations changed not because he thought it not up to snuff, but because he wanted a larger role. As it wasn’t changed he said “No” because he wanted more than just the cameo that James Doohan got in his place.
Re: 200
That was not Mr Nimoy’s only concern with Generations. But, yes, it was one of his concerns. He was not interested in a Spock cameo. He was a meaningful role to play. But he also thought the basic premise, the villian, the Nexus plot device and how they handled Kirk’s death needed serious revision. He said so in an interview.
i shall pray to jesus tonight to make shatner appear in the movie
just kidding! – (although i might actually do it)
Like any other classic trek fan i hope he appears – but if not I’ll understand…
i mean he was killed off and all in Generations so it aint gonna be easy at all to have him back as Capt Kirk like the way Nimoy is back as Spock (it’d be difficult even if he hadnt been killed off in VII as Nimoys Spocks scenes are – initially – probably either TNG or post TNG era)…and this movie is first and foremost about the return of ‘Star Trek’ – not the return of William Shatner as Kirk
However it would be wonderful if he appeared somehow – even if it were as Kirks father…(if Kirks father is in it)
Mr Orci – a quick Q regarding Transformers – was that Nichelle Nicols
of today or a sample from TOS voice cameoing ?
you guys need some good publicity
1. the Simon Pegg casting news…
2.the recent LA TIMES article :fans are “Cautiously Optimistic”
3. Finding Nero…..
4.William Shatner
Yikes!
IMO
I have faith in you guys….Do whatever.
#151:”This should put to rest the speculation that Shatner is not in the film due to negotiation issues, i.e. him holding out for a meatier role or more money…
To persist with such speculation, after Shatner’s statements in the above AP article, would be to call him a liar….\he additional speculation about the purpose of Shatner’s talk — that he’s been talking as he has in order to achieve a better negotiating position, for example — is also dispelled.”
Sounds like there are negotiation issues, and that these interviews are intended to achieve some leverage.
Or maybe not. No way to tell.
Re: 200 part Two
But you’re missing the point. The point is, that the time for Shatner to speak up was then and not now. Shatner agreed to Kirk’s death as envisioned by Braga and Moore and Berman. Why can’t Shatner agree to Mr Orci and Mr Kurtzman’s vision of a Star Trek movie–one that does not involve the “course correction” of resurrection for his beloved character?
hey Roberto,
you can see the fans have been polarised by the Shatner issue. I already wrote #51 where i think we should use our heads not our heart (thus keeping him out)… but seeing the hysteria, if you can find any way to give Shatner even the tiniest of cameo’s, please do it. It won’t please everyone but it’ll appease enough of the fans in favour of Shatner.
If not, then someone else on this website mentioned Shatner doing the prologue. I think that’s a very good idea and one you should seriously consider.
#206:”…if you can find any way to give Shatner even the tiniest of cameo’s, please do it. ”
Wonder how much that would cost? ;)
Gee I have been reading through these posts and there seems to be this obsessive demand that they know if Shatner will be in this film or not. It is like if they know then they will object or just not see this film or support it full steam. Seems nuts to me. It could be a great film even without Shatner. Maybe it will be a great film with him in it. Either way I will look forward to seeing what they come up with.
I don’t need to know either way if he is in it. It might be a nice surprise to see him pop up in it. Why not let it be that way. If he isn’t and it turns out to be a good film. Well I will be satisfied either way. I don’t see why some have to just be so crazy about Mr. Shatner’s participation either way. Let the events unfold as they should be.
Remember it is just a film and not real life.
Hopefully it is a good film though.;)
Mr. Orci -
Please do not cave into the demands of William Shatner. If he can be fit into the existing storyline, please do so. If he can’t , he can’t . Please don’t try to cure Generations mistakes, it will only drive people away.
He was great as Kirk, but his time has passed. Please produce a great story!..thats all I ask. Thank you Mr. Orci.
Nicely said Rick (#200).
I also suspect this is a money issue.
Here are my two cents – mis dos centavos.
After a ba-zillion posts on the subject, I figure I’ll finally chime in.
Speaking in general terms, I think it is not wise for a performer to display his/her displeasure with not being in a movie, in so much that it sets up and adversarial dynamic which is not at all conducive to the performer’s original goal.
That performer should keep in mind that this very very likely the RELAUNCH of the series and that there is a POSSIBILITY for future involvement should any sequels be made. Perhaps the producers are unable to fit him into this movie, but might consider making the sequel more tailored to that performer.
Perhaps, changes in the shooting script may be made in the production schedule down the pipeline. There are always possibilities.
However, I understand mortality may play into a performers angst as one reaches the autumn of their years. He/she may feel a need to make a contribution while one still can. I’m sure most of us can empathize with this.
Hopefully, the powers that be can shoot extra material for the eventual DVD release. A coda of sorts that may or may not be included in the final cut.
Keep the faith.
-DJT
The fact of the matter is a story was pitched and taken up. If the pitch hadn’t happened there probably, might not be a new Trek movie being made. For shatner to demand the story be changed to include him is a little ridiculous. The story came first. If Gene Roddenberry were still alive I’m sure he’d put things into perspective and knock the Shatner of his perch and put things into perspective a little. I seem to recall a Guy called Jeffrey Hunter whom I really liked as the Captain, and I’m sure had he decided to continue to a full series it would have been just as cool.
I know someone mentioned it earlier, but it needs to be brought up again because it was largely ignored (As most good points are.)
What if Old & Young Spock’s actions create an alternate timeline by the end of the film? Thus effectively undoing Kirk’s death without the need to even show Mr. Shatner, all the while making way for all new adventures for the recast crew.
If this is the case (and it is possible), then I completely accept and understand why Mr. Shatner’s involvement is not required. I only hope that Mr. Shatner and his most ardent fans come to terms with his possible non involvement, and not take it out on the film.
Or it’s entirely possible that Paramount themselves may be the ones prompting Mr. Shatner’s non inclusion, and all the vitriol shot at JJ and crew would be completely unwarranted.
Well if there was ever any doubt about what his TOS castmates wrote about him and his GIANT EGO in their books before, there shouldn’t be now. Wow.
Clearly he hasn’t changed or matured as much as he thinks he has.
Look, I like Shatner but he can be a jerk. Was Nimoy crying that he wasn’t in Generations. If he wanted to preserve his character than he should have never agreed to kill his character in the movie. Even in Sci-fi it’s difficult to come up with reasons to raise people from the dead.
What’s in the past is in the past and can’t be recaptured maybe he should adhere to his own sayings.
Anybody have any idea how much Nimoy is being paid to reprise the role of Spock in the new movie? If Shatner and Nimoy enjoy a “favored nations” clause, as is suspected, it might explain why the Shat is pushing for more money……if he IS doing just that……
Here here #216! You boiled down what I was trying to express with my over-long post into a very clear and concise few sentences.
I think the whole thing is contrived hype. Don’t believe everything at face value in Hollywood. My gut says the more WS “doth protest”…the more likely the opposite is true. Yes, you know he wants a stack of cash, his box office draw alone would cover the $alary for XI and the suits know it.
Hmmm lets see…Shat’s new Trek book (blessed by PRMT) is coming out, movie starts filming in 10 days or so….I’d say the whole dust up is a big publicity spotlight for WS, Nimoy Trek XI and the dang book!
What say you all? I smell WS in “acting high gear”. It’s funny!
The entire future of the Star Trek franchise is in Mr Orci’s hands
If the movie bombs ..R.I.P Star Trek forever
and many will blame him
I don’t want to be in his position, No, sir.
I feel sorry for Mr Orci.
If Shatner is in it, great. If he isn’t, then that is OK too. What I want is just a great Star Trek movie. I am not sure what Shatner is doing with all the press about him not being in the movie. Is he lobbying for a job? I think someone needs to stop the bleeding and finally say what is going on. Officially.
I can’t believe you fans are embracing this unoriginal Star Trek script. To go back and see kirk and spock, when there so much to explore. I can’t believe these comments bringing Nemoy and shatner into this mess would only make it a comedy. What are you fans smoking.
We should be be telling stories about Sisko and Voyager. I coundnt give a shat about kirk and spock anymore.
I really hope his apperance in this movie is not a lost cause… I really can’t see any better way to bring in this new version of the original cast without both Shatner and Nimoy being there to give them a good send-off.
#176 CmdrR “red velour underoos…”
An ode to red velour underoos…….
There once was a yeoman named Rand
Her panties were anything but bland
One day she did smile
I jumped half a mile
And now you know where I stand!
Great poem Harry!!
Most Trekkies will go out and watch Star Trek XI Shatner or no Shatner…but if he really isn’t in it, those same Trekkies will leave angry/sad/dissapointed.
Shatner has in a way *created* Star Trek…Kirk is a legend in the sci-fi world, and you can’t just ignore that for the sake of plot continuity! We’re talking about Hollywood, capable writers not being able to think of a creative way to fit Shatner into a script! o_0 Sorry, J.J….I’m not buying that.
Whatever the cost, Star Trek needs Shatner!
I don’t know what’s to be gained at this point by Shat acting like a money-grubbing pig (if indeed that is what he is doing). Either he truly wants to be in the film or not…if this is about money, I find that somewhat pathetic.
He has fame…and he has money already. Add to that the fact that his career has been revitalized a bit by Boston Legal and his emmy noms.
I think if he wants to be in the film, he’d do it no matter how much or how little he gets paid for it — just to give his character a proper last moment on film.
Mr. Orci: 166 180 183 185.
You are such a tease! Thanks for the tidbits none the less.
I hope you guys write a book about all of this. (As you mentioned about your memoirs). There has been so much speculation, and no doubt we will not get to know about all the processes (for now). A lot of Star Trek fans are very passionate about this franchise and would really like to know what has gone on from start to finish during production. Myself included.
Live long and write well.
Old Trekker chiming in again for a moment. Two times, thats a record for me. I respect the younger fans who just pray to get on with the entire franchise and move to fresh territory. I’ve felt that way personally for a very long time for a number of reasons, but one of the most sensible opinions I’ve seen in these posts spoke of the franchise being in a new set of hands now. That really is the truth to all of this, and whether its a go or throw away situation, I might have doubt of. One thing is for sure though, if this flops and the box office receipts aren’t there after it all, I’d be willing to bet that it will be another decade or longer at least until theres even a hint of another chance for more of the Trek Universe on any screen. Mr Abrams, Mr. Orci, given what I’ve heard you speak of in your interviews thus far, I as an older fan do have the faith that you have the finest intentions with all your doing for Trek. Please include Bill Shatner. In the end of it all, it will only mean success and more success for this film and then future films. I’m personally getting awfully nervous from reading all the boards of fans who say that they would consider just passing on the theater presentation of it, if Bill Shatner isn’t in it.
You know, those of us who lived through the early to mid seventies dreaming of the “act of miracles” that would bring the crew back to us in some way, got what we waited for for so long, and it was like feasting on caviar and champagne when the Theater dimmed and the screen lit up on opening night (yes I was there, 20 of us to be exact:)). Well as some have spoken of, and I dislike self-fulfilling prophecies, but this very well could pass. You have no idea how much I’m praying it doesn’t. This film is almost on the par with our “hail-mary”. Well, you know what I mean.
I’ll say one thing, that if Bill Shatner is in the film, this all is one heck of a good publicity campaign tactic on the part of J.J. Abrams and team. Not that all of this is intentional. But what publicity to draw out people! You guys couldn’t have paid an Ad Team to create all of this press! :)
Best all!
if shatner has been offered a cameo all he has to do is accept it and his distress will be over if he hasent been offered a part taking it to the media doesnt help his case
230. Shatner has already stated he doesn’t do cameos.
In other words Shatner’s saying to JJ, “Put me in your movie or there will be trouble. Capiche?”
In on the creation? Dude you weren’t even in the first pilot episode, who was? Oh yeah Nimoy!
Bill you’re kicking ass on Boston Legal and various other things don’t embarrass yourself further by holding your breath cuz big mean Mr. Abrams didn’t put in the film.
-cs™
#222
Too bad no one would watch a movie about Sisko or Janeway (this coming from a huge DS9 fan). I hate to be the Acme mallet of reality connecting with the head of your imagination, but that’s just the simple truth. Janeway’s story ended with Voyager’s end, and while there’s still a story to tell about Sisko’s fate, very few would pay to see a film about it. The best we could hope for is a TV movie.
That being said, Shatner is creating a very awkward situation here. I get he wants to be in the thing, but maybe that’s just not the story they want to tell. Maybe he can wait for the sequel?
Here’s a wacky off the wall idea,
“UnGHHH!!! Shatner want brain!” Get it?
bring him back as a zombie and they can bring in the zombie lover contingent! I am a genius, no need to pay me Mr. Orci just gimme a screen credit like 20 minutes into the end credits or maybe tix to the premiere? huh, huh… c’mon…
To Bill,
WTF are you talking about, JJ has said a number of times that he wants you in, and that you’re just being stuborn. And to be honest, I trust his word a lot more than yours. So, just sit down with him, say yes, or shut up and quit trying to ruin what we all know is gonna be a great film!
#235 That’s bull when did JJ Abrams say Shatner was being stubborn? This is complete fiction.
“Also, we take no pleasure in WS’s distress. ”
Mr Orci, one phone call can ease that stress. We might not know the end game but you could put the ole shat out of his misery at least. The problem is that nobody the promise of “maybe” is redundant if there’s no communication with the main man.
However, i would like to point out that to the fans on this board you have been nothing but diplomatic, gracious, and never quick to side with anyone over anything or talk rude or down to anyone. Thank you for being 100% cordial.
Now please call the Shat ;)
It seems to me that perhaps Mr Abrams and his team would like to have a movie that could stand up alone by itself without haveing a need to have previous cast members to make it worth while. Having even one (Mr Nimoy) is probably pushing their limits of creditability to do a new movie justice, and as much of a tie-in as they feel that they need.
Yet I am willing to believe that perhaps they are saving up a nice sizeable role for WS in the next movie. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them leave an opening at the end for WS to make his comeback appearance. It would certainly leave us all drooling for more!
WE WANT SHAT! WE WANT SHAT! WE WANT SHAT!
Here’s the perfect way to work the entire original cast into the movie:
Spock goes to a restaurant on Rigel with his commanding officer – Pike. The folks at a nearby table are contending vainly with a drunken old uncle who’s putting on quite a show for the other patrons.
Shatner’s the uncle, but the rest of his party are Nichols, Koenig, Takei, Whitney and Barrett-Roddenberry.
This will work – it worked wonderfully in “Here Come The Munsters,” which should be the model for Old Cast cameos. So much classier than the “Lost In Space” movie. ;)
Doesn’t anyone here think that the real mistake was in having Captain Kirk killed in the first place? As far as I was concerned, the situation in which Captain Kirk was killed didn’t even need him to be killed to make it work. Now everyone expects to reverse that, like Spock’s death was reversed. I agree that William Shatner should be included in the new film, but I wish they would quit killing off the original cast… they are dying off soon enough as it is in real life. I have the utmost respect for the character of Captain Kirk, but I also feel there are many other noteworthy characters that have been developed in the other Star Trek series. If they don’t put William Shatner in the next movie, who knows if they will ever get another chance? Wouldn’t it be fantastic to have V’ger (in the role of it’s new life form – using outstanding special effects), from the very first movie, be involved in restoring Kirk…. perhaps in the movie after this one to be released in 2008? That could be a nice final farewell for the character of Captain Kirk… if he really is to be excluded from future movies.
Dennis 199
Clearly nobody can argue that Shatner is a bigger star than Cruise, but William Shatner’s name on a “Star Trek” film does mean something.
#241:”Clearly nobody can argue that Shatner is a bigger star than Cruise, but William Shatner’s name on a “Star Trek” film does mean something.”
Of course it does.
The craziness results from the anxieties of some folks who think it means *everything.*
Another possibility that may be contributing to the difficulties with getting older Kirk in might be that older Spock is coming from post-Unification era. If this is true, then even if somehow Kirk didn’t die on Veridian, he’d be over 135 years old at this point (or over 141 if after Nemesis) — high even for 24th century life expectancies (males 115 years). If alive at all, he’d have to be pretty damn old, or they’d have to jump to a 3rd time point (besides older-Spock time and younger crew time), which could get cluttered.
I can understand people’s desire to see Kirk’s death redeemed, but film this may not be set in the right time frame(s) for that.
Of course this is all speculation…
226. This movie may be budgeted $150 million, but history has certainly shown that in the production side of Star Trek, there is no such thing as “whenever the cost”.
214. The idea that it’s the studio and not JJ and company keeping Shatner out is something nobody is really considering on these threads, but it could be just as true as everything else everyone has theorized. Very good observation.
#241
Exactly- which is why I stated that no one should believe the hype. Clearly all involved have a PR agenda due to various projects, movies books etc….
Shatner will be in the movie
I’d bet Shatner was offered some type of cameo. Perhaps at the end of the film where it is revealed that Kirk survived the rumored alternate time line of ST XI.
I’d also bet that Shatner wants a part + salary equal to Nimoy. I wonder if Shatner is the one causing the hold up? He has met with J.J. Abrams and co.
That said. If Shatner is not in the film I have very little interest in it.
Not that I wish the film to do poorly or have the new actors fail. I just don’t want to see a ST film where Kirk remains dead. It ruins the whole series for me.
With Nimoy in it and not Shatner the film will not feel complete.
I would be upset if Shatner was never offered the chance to play Kirk one more time.
“Whatever the cost” is what I meant to say.
I hope he’s in it for the fact that maybe Paramount would hire Shat a personal trainer to slim down……yes I realize he’s 76 but c’mon, slim down that paunch and let me see that jawline again!
Too much horse riding Denny, a little more sweatin to the oldies and Starfleet would recall you to service immediately. Jeez ,Nimoy is a good friend, maybe he could help him with the nutrisystem part or something. He’s as slim as he was 40 years ago.
why must we do this? This isn’t new news, just an opportunity for the same comments to be made… again.
So tiring and doesn’t make me like any of it.
No Shat, no Trek.
^41. One could argue that Nimoy is already two or three Trek appearances ahead of Shatner because of “The Cage” and “Unification Part II” and technically “Unification Part I” with Nimoy’s one line was a separate episode (it even had a different director), or you could say that Nimoy’s two Shatnerless hours of TV Trek equal one Trek movie and so Generations made Shatner and Nimoy more or less even. I would argue that Nimoy’s presence in “The Cage” means he has a relationship to Star Trek independent of Shatner. There would be pleasing symmetry to Nimoy’s Spock being both the first and last TOS character. Majel doing the computer voice in XI would be a nice bookend too.
^66. Nimoy’s age does not predict Spock’s. He played Spock twice in 1991 at two ages eight decades apart. If he hadn’t made that TNG appearance it would be just as reasonable to appear as Spock 16 years after TUC. If Nimoy aging faster than a Vulcan is taken into account, perhaps many more than 16 years have passed.
# 77
When the Kirk character fell with that bridge and died in Generations, Kirk died.
Therefore, Chris Pine will be playing a character that eventually falls onto some rocks and gets crushed by a bridge and dies a meaningless and stupid death.
If this franchise is going to be revitalized, please please please offer us some hope that the character played by Chris Pine does not really end up dying in such a pathetic way.
Bring back Shatner, and give us some hope that Kirk’s life will have a better conclusion.
This whole argument is tired and pointless at this point. After thousands of posts on the subject nobody is talking. I take that back. Everyone is talking but nobody is saying anything.
I wish that Roberto + J.J. Abrams could give us an answer one way or the other.
The fact that they can’t most likely (simply my best guess) means they are still either:
a) Writing a part for Shatner
b) Trying to convince him to take a small part + less money
c) Trying to convince tptb that Shatner is worth the money that he asked for in the first place.
If they didn’t want him I think they would be decent enough to just say it + explain their position.
I hope Shatner does not talk himself out of the film with these daily updates about not being contacted for this film yet.
What makes me wonder about Shatner’s motives are the following.
a) “The business side of this” – A.K.A. I want more money than they offered me at the initial meetings. If you remember Shatner said “J.J. Abrams wants me to be in this film” He keeps bringing up the business side of it. Why talk about money in public?
b) “I don’t do cameo’s” – It seems the part that was offered to him (if infact he was offered a part) was a cameo type role. He wants equal screen time + the same money as Leonard Nimoy.
My bet is that they have a part written for him that is a small, but pivotal role and that Shatner thinks he should get more money + more screen time.
I’d also guess that there are two versions of the script. One with Shatner as Kirk. One without Shatner.
I’d bet that tptb might have been turned off by Shatner’s original demands and decided to move on without him. While at the same time hoping Shatner would change his mind in time to be in the film ON THEIR TERMS.
If my guess is true both sides are telling the truth from a certain point of view.
Abrams + c.o. want Shatner (on their terms) + Shatner is correct when he says he has not been contacted of late. What he may be failing to mention is that he met with them within the last year or so + wants to be included on his terms not theirs.
If they didn’t offer him a part shame on them.
Only time will tell what is really going on.
How about a scene with Shatner as Kirk drop kicking the fake Chekov and then apologizing after realizing he was not Koenig. Could be a very small, but poignant scene.
Hey Roberto,
In the October 8th interview, you stated the following:
“What J.J. said at Comic-Con is still true. We are actively perusing looking for a way to make a part that is worthy of him and that is not pandering to either his role in Star Trek or to the fans.”
It is now October 27th. Does the above statement still hold true? I sure hope so.
In case anyone cares this story is hitting the mainstream media tonight.
It was a lead story on Yahoo also well as CNN + various other web sites. It was also on Fox News and local news stations.
This negative news is not good for anyone involved.
For Christ’s sake just sign the guy + get it over with. Please don’t leave everyone hanging.
I too have little sympathy for Shatner, and am fast losing what respect I did have for him. His complaining and whining is really making him sound like a sore loser to me.
Shatner AGREED to have the character killed off and then goes on to make a tidy sum of money OFF that character’s deaths in a series of books. I don’t care if they find a way to work Shatner into the movie or not, but a part of me hopes they don’t just to prove Shatner’s egotistical claims wrong.
I would have had much more respect for Shatner if he would have taken the high road, and wished this movie success and given it words of encouragement.
Personally, I am upset that WS is not in it as of yet….. but to be fair- LN was not in ST Gen.. so they would be equal…
GUYS THE MOVIE COMES FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
258
The problem is that Spock had a great send off in TUC. While Kirk fell off a bridge to a meaningless death.
Kirk needs a better ending + this is the only chance for it.
I don’t see how you can lose by including Shatner in the movie. For every fan that is irritated by his appearance, there will be many that will be thrilled by it.
I think the ongoing controversy here is indicative of how things will play out in the future. We can see here that more than half of the fans want Shatner in the movie, and will be disappointed if he is not in it (especially because of Nimoy’s presence). This means that even if it is a very good story, the BEST you can do with a Shatnerless film is please less than half of the Trek fans. That’s a losing hand right from the start. On the other hand, if Shatner is there to pass the torch to Pine, the Shatner fans (who are obviously numerous and outspoken) will be on board, and the movie will have a fighting chance… it will be judged on the merit of its story.
I can’t wait for the producers to get in touch and tell Bill that they have found a spot for him and very much want him to appear and Bill says ‘no thanks, I’m just too busy’ pmsl. Nothing less than they deserve. All of this nonsense is really cooling me on this film. May just skip it come the day. Its given me a bad feeling towards the writers and producers. Not so much that they haven’t included him, but simply beacause they insist on dragging it out. Wally’s.
204. Dennis Bailey –
– Sounds like there are negotiation issues, and that these interviews are intended to achieve some leverage. Or maybe not. No way to tell. –
Well, now that I see Roberto Orci talking about an “initial meeting” with Shatner, I realize that my previous post (#151) is null.
If they pitched Shatner the idea, as Orci says, then, by definition, they’ve asked him to participate in the movie. That’s what a “pitch” is.
In light of the aforementioned “pitch,” Shatner’s “they haven’t asked me to be in the movie” now looks more like a half-truth with a significant clause purposefully omitted: “They haven’t asked me to be in the movie [in terms or a capacity that I can agree to.]”
What, exactly, those terms and capacity might be — what, exactly, the “pitch” was — is, as you say, unknowable at this point.
I’ll tell you one thing, though: the above AP article is like a bucket of chum dumped into a shark tank around here.
I can think of a few chums I’d like to dump into that tank!
Shatner is being Shatner.
Shatner smells a possible big payday and is using the available media to posture himself as best as he can to cash in. Simple enough.
As a Trek fan since its beginning, I would love to see Shatner return one last time as Kirk. He has been Kirk for 40 years and will always own the part. That said, I would rather see the franchise reinvigorated and become truly epic in its movie incarnation (as so many of us have always hoped it would be) than simply see Shatner ride off into the sunset with his saddlebags stuffed with legal tender.
I don’t think the part offered is nearly as important to Shatner as is the money. Sadly, Shatner’s Kirk and Nimoy’s Spock will have to give way to these new actors for the characters to continue to live. Why can’t Shatner take a decent role with a respectable payday? Because it is all about the money.
I put my trust in Abrams, Orci, and company to give us the theatrical Trek we have longed hoped for. I think they have done all that probably can be done to bring Shatner on board. It’s time to move on.
Mr. Orci, all the best! I think we will have a great Trek with you!
Anthony, best Trek site ever!
One possibility:
To Old Kirk: I thought you died!
Old Kirk: So did I. But then I woke up under a pile of rocks. A remarkable thing, that Nexus. It has some astounding regenerative properties. It kept me from aging for nearly 70 years. And then, even when I left it, the effects stayed with me for some time. For almost three years after leaving the Nexus, I didn’t age a day, according to the doctors. One day a horse I was riding rolled over on me, broke nearly every rib I’ve got. The next day, I felt as good as new. Eventually the effects of the Nexus wore off. Now, I’m as mortal as ever.
And on with the story…
He doesn’t do cameos, huh? Then what was that part he had in AIRPLANE 2??? That damned sure was a cameo and it was Star Trek and he wasn’t playing an ICONIC character that Kirk is!
What a joke.
I am a fan of the Shat, but when he says crap like that, it pisses me off…and likewise if he’s being stubborn over money and screentime!
RE: 260
No. The problem is that William Shatner agreed to have Kirk fall of a bridge to a meaningless death. Don’t you think he could’ve changed that ending if he really wanted to? If he really cared to? He willfully participated in Kirk’s meaningless death. Stop blaming Berman. Shatner shares the blame. He could’ve said, No. He could couldn’ve said, Okay but I want Kirk to die a more heroic death. Shatner no longer has the artistic weight to say what is good for Trek and what is bad.
He should have the decency to wish the new cast well and to stop casting the filmmakers in a negative light.
260. VOODOO – October 26, 2007
258
The problem is that Spock had a great send off in TUC. While Kirk fell off a bridge to a meaningless death.
Kirk needs a better ending + this is the only chance for it.
I love Bill, but if he’s holding out for money or an equal role to Nimoy, he’s stupid. If he gets offered a cameo in the sense that he only appears at the end of the film, perhaps after Spock (Nimoy) alters the time line, and saves the day or whatever, he SHOULD take that! BTW, Roberto I declare I will not seek any royalties if you use my idea. LOL, I am serious, none! In reality, I took it from the second Planet of the Apes film, when Heston only appears at the end, albeit to kill his character for deathly fear of scifi type casting.
Once again, everybody knows Bill has a huge ego, that’s what makes him so well known. His antics and acting are a major reason Star Trek is part of the popular culture. The Bill bashing and Bill worship is getting really old and pointless and lame. Kudos to Orci for ignoring those posts. I feel if they offer him something more than just Kirk’s dad or something for 90 seconds (Wil Wheaton cameo), and he doesn’t do it, then it’s on Bill, not the J.J. team.
Catspaw, Shatner had the same size role in Airplane II that Robert Stack had in the first one, and it was not a cameo. A cameo is more like what he did in Showtime (why was that movie made?) or Dodgeball. However, I would think it would be a waste to get Shatner in a Star Trek movie for 60 seconds, wouldn’t it?
Horta, Shatner has accepted blame for Generations. This issue has nothing to do with Generations anymore. Even the BBKers have been silent more or less on redoing the canon. This is about getting Shatner and Nimoy on screen together again as Kirk and Spock. The living Kirk and Spock, not a holodeck or a dream that comes off really cheap. Many, like me, say ignore Generations, and stick Shatner in as Kirk anyway. It’s science fiction! We want to see those two guys in a Trek production again! But I agree Shatner needs to shut up until a decision is finally made.
#268
The fact that Shatner agreed to have Kirk killed off is not the point. The point is that Kirk died a stupid meaningless death. Why would anyone wanting to revitalize the franchise allow Kirk’s death to remain as is? Ask Chris Pine if he likes the fact that his character dies by falling on some rocks and getting squished to death by a bridge. What do you think he would say?
The new team wants us to get interested in the Kirk character again. They want us to care about him. But how interested in him can we get when we already know that he just gets squished to death later on?
Imagine this: You are watching Gamesters of Triskelion. Kirk is fighting some thralls, and a voice in the back of your mind says: “He may win this battle, but he’ll get sandwiched between some rocks and a bridge later!” Well, it ruins it for you. He might as well let the thralls kill him – it would be a much better death. I feel good about Pine as Kirk, but that voice is going to be pestering me when I watch him if Old Kirk doesn’t make an appearance in this movie.
If it’s really a time-travel story, then Kirk can easily appear at the end, alive and well, with little or no mention of the Nexus required.
If I was a betting man, I would be willing to wager that William Shatner will NOT end up in this movie. His stubborn and steadfast refusal to even consider a cameo or small part in this film will, in the end, keep the older Capt. Kirk out of the script.
And that’s too bad…. It would have been nice to see Shatner stretch into his Capt Kirk suit one last time on the big screen!
Mike :o
Why not just have Shatner ALIVE in the 24th century and not even bother explaining it? Let someone else fill in the blanks in book form, or let Shatner’s novels be the reason he’s returned.
Just dont worry about it and give us a great story that Shatner and Nimoy can go out on.
Mr. Orci if you really care about the future of the Star Trek franchise…worry less about Shatner and more about making a great movie!
If Bill’s not in the film, then I’ll just pocket my money and wait it out for a dvd rental.
Please give the “franchise” a breath of fresh air! Reinvision the H_ll
out of the Star Trek concept. It’s been getting a bit boring. I believe
it’s the “We’ve seen it before” factor.
Frankly, I am a bit disapointed that Nimoy WILL play Spock again.
The whole Star Trek concept needs a new look. Also, If you really care
about Star Trek then please have some moments in the film where you
can REALLY explain how things actually work in the ST universe.
Some of my complaints about the current/ previous ST Universe are:
1. Currency. WTF? I think all fans are still mystified by this. Currency is an
important part of all civilized societies. WHY not Star Trek?
2. The global political system. After 40+ years of Trek we still only have
a vague understanding of what Starfleet is. A branch of the Navy?
If so, then what is the prevailing Earth Government system?
Is there a world President? Basic stuff.
3. Technology.
Please explain the Tech. better. The transporters should not scramble
and decode molecules. Most of us understand that would take
computers and hardware that is magical. Not technological.
How about this…
The Transporter uses the ships main engines and deflector the create
a Warp field to deposit people and things there and back again.
4. Wonder.
Bring back the awe and wonder factor of the original writing.
For example, if you watch any original episode there will be four or five
plot points that stop you and make you think. That’s the wonder factor.
An example would be The Apple. A bad episode in my opinion, but
there are a few gems there in the plot. Kirk telling Scott to separate
the ship. A society controlled by machines (with the need for implants
even). A paradise, with no children, and controlled by a Snake god?!!
Just do not write/use stupid plot elements please! Make sure everything works well together emotinally AND scientifically. This could be the
only thing that saves this movie.
AND HEY HOLLYWOOD!!!!
SHATNER WILL NOT SAVE THIS MOVIE OR MAKE IT EARN ANY MORE MONEY THAN IT WILL!!! ONLY GREAT, GREAT, GREAT WRITING WILL DO THAT TRICK, AND ALSO SUPPLY THE TREATS!
IMHO Writers should be paid the top dollar.
Just give us a NEW updated look that TOS deserves along with GREAT
writing. Once we hear this is accomplished we’ll fill the seats and
bring others.
Note to studio execs… It’s not all about the money guys. Star Trek has inspired countless scientists and engineers. Take a look at your cell
phone. It’s OK to go the extra mile to be (what was the word they used
way back when) CEREBRAL. It really inspires us all to greatness.
To finish…I say say NO to the Shat (not needed) and YES to the
Star Trek vision. Only please, massivally upgrade the ST look, and please
keep it logical. A good help may be to envision that you are watching
your completed film on Mystery Science 2000.
#274 I agree with you 100%
After watching his “Star Trek Memories” video I can live without Shatner being in the film.
I love the character of Kirk but for the most part have always had a pretty uneasy feeling about William Shatner. He’s always come across as a prima donna. I don’t know all the facts to what’s going on, but to me Shatner is the one coming off far worse. He’s certainly not doing any favors by throwing tantrums and (apparently) appealing to the audience to get them to “convince” the producers to get him a role. He realizes he’s loosing out on a potentially huge paycheck, and to be honest if they’ve gotten Nimoy they most likely had already reached out to Shater – who probably turned him down due to the check not being as large as he wanted/expected. His loss.
At the very most Nimoy’s role will probably be a cameo – something mostly inconsequential to the movie at hand.
To be honest none of the trek films pulled in HUGE numbers – at least not as huge as this film’s budget has been made out to be.
202
Uhura’s it was a sample from the original series.
# 274, #277…
You state:
“Mr. Orci if you really care about the future of the Star Trek franchise…worry less about Shatner and more about making a great movie!”
Everyone wants a great movie, no doubt. But they don’t need the TOS characters to make a great story. And yet here they are, choosing to go forward with the TOS characters. Why?
Why did they choose to use the TOS characters???
If they’re trying to appeal to people who are not currently Star Trek fans, then they could go right ahead and create new characters. But they decided to use Kirk, Spock, McCoy. So there must be a strong sense in which they want to draw on some familiar things in Star Trek, and satisfy those of us who are life-long Trek fans.
Well, most life-long Trek fans do care about Shatner, and do think that Nimoy without Shatner is unsettling, and do think Kirk died a useless death. Most of us do want Shatner in the movie.
And, by deciding to make the movie about the TOS characters, and by deciding to include Nimoy, tptb have made this not merely an issue of making a great movie, but an issue of making a great movie that satisfies TOS fans. And many TOS fans love TOS because they love Shatner as Kirk.
Orci – If you’re just trying to make a great movie, and don’t want to worry about Shatner or any of the fans’ desires, then make a Trek movie about other characters! If you want to make it about TOS characters, then just know that for many of us, Shatner is Kirk, and Kirk is Star Trek.
We’re ready to accept Chris Pine as Kirk, but it feels wrong if Shatner isn’t on board as well.
I just tought of something else.
IT’S SUPPOSOSED TO BE THE FUTURE!! RIGHT EVERYBODY!!
It strikes me as being funny, that the typical Star Trek Federation Ship is not much larger than TODAY’S largest navy vessels.
Gravity’s lock on design was broken long before Kirk’s time.
I would not mind seeing the redesign of the Enterprise appear
as large as the Spacedock (from ST III.)
Thoughts?
Note to TrekMovie.
Perhaps you could create a (multiple choice?) form on this website
that asks: What do you like best about Star Trek?
I think it would be interesting and revealing to read the responses.
For me? Of course. It was the Sense of Wonder that the show inspired.
An appreciation of the Future!
And hey, Shatner. I think that’s a double negative you just used!
#62
- If Shatner’s in it, wonderful, but it has to be worthy of James T. Kirk -
Agreed – I just think that being alive is worthy of James T. Kirk.
And for everybody saying the film comes first: Agreed, as well – and this scenario is already influencing the film in a very negative way. The general audience, i. e. the audience not that familiar with ST, is yet well aware of Nimoy‘s and Shatner‘s iconic status regarding ST. They have the high recognition value, Quinto and Pine don’t have (yet). People „outside“ don‘t give a damn about our debate, but they may read an AP interview and Christmas 2008 I am sure they will observe the absence of Shatner as Kirk and there IS a risk they will be disappointed. This “risk-group” can be added to the group of fans of whom we already know that they will be disappointed. We know it because they stated it.
Furthermore, the statement that this film may be weakened by Shatner’s involvement/Kirk’s resurrection remains a mere speculation as none of us knows the script nor can tell for sure whether Abrams and Orci are capable of making an excellent film AND bring back Kirk at the same time. But I think it’s about time you felt some of the trust yourself you keep telling us we should have in Abrams & Co.
Kirk died a hero. To bring him back cheapens the sacrifice. Let his legacy rest.
UNGHH!!! Shatner Zombie angry! Shatner zombie want brain!!!
Yes, Kirk died saving the galaxy AGAIN…
He’s been back and forth in time, met more new life forms or “First Contacts” than any other starship captain [I seem to recall that being the case...] and holds the human record for “most-different-aliens-slept-with”… all in all a GREAT MAN!
If they want him back STORY WISE they could make it happen in ANY WAY AT ALL and it would be as logical as 80% of the series… Just think of reuniting the Kirk[s] in “Enemy Within”… [oh yeah !...]
C’mon. It’s a STORY! A story can make ANYTHING happen if the writer wants it to happen.
The issue is either MONEY, EGO, or HYPE.
#285 or my favourite- writers lack of imagination. Transformers anybody?
I think William Shatner needs a bit more self-confidence. (Yes, sarcasm).
Rather than the film-makers ‘desperately trying to find a way to put him in this movie’, it would have been better if the original intentions of the film-makers had been different, and that they had deliberately written a story with William Shatner’s ‘older-looking’ Kirk in mind in some capacity IN THE FIRST PLACE… Even with a storyline that deliberately excluded him, it is still possible in certain ways ( as even some here have imagined ) to come up something that includes him, even at this late stage, without ‘destroying’ whatever storyline has been concocted, ESPECIALLY one that involves ‘time-travel / alternative timelines’…
This news getting into the wider media already is the last kind of negatively-impacting image this so-called ‘TOS-era’ Trek Movie needs…and will no doubt be focused upon at the launch too, if things remain the same…
A ‘Spock-centred’ storyline, using the original actor that portrayed Spock is all well and good, but that left a still-alive ( in the real world ) William Shatner role expected as well by many fans of TOS, and as this is a dearly held TOS franchise ‘re-launch’ using all-new actors in the classic roles, this Movie would have been far better received if it had incorporated the other main, still-alive actor in it’s story to smooth the transition…or it would have been better leaving and older Leonard Nimoy out too in my opinion. Or even better, would have been better set using a DIFFERENT Star Trek crew altogether, rather than play around with different ‘time-lines’…
Excuse my typos. Thankyou.
I don’t think Shatner will agree to appear as Kirk in this film unless his role is as substantial is Nimoys, that would mean essentially re-writing the story completely I’d guess, if it’s about Spock. Do you fans really want a potentially good storyline that Nimoy has said is great tampered with?? Do you??
Not really acceptable in my opinion to pander to Shatners ego, especially if it means the story suffers. As I pointed out the dude directed V and it bombed, he appeared in Generations but that film would have been better without him. You can see where I’m going with this…
Oh, and love that ‘pained expression’ pic of William, Anthony…
Greg: 269
“I love Bill, but if he is holding out for more money or an equal role to Nimoy’s he’s stupid”
Well said.
Take the cameo Bill.
#290 Insane?
so you’ve cherry picked a couple of duds to prove your point- big deal. how about Wrath, Voyage, Undiscovered country…. He was in those- and many more episodes besides- that were great.
Already over 1,000 posts about Shatner’s return in less than one week.
I really hope they can come to terms + get Shatner in the film, but I am tired of
hearing about it.
The bad news is the story is just hitting the mainstream media. So get use to all Shatner all the time.
How would the producers feel if a person who is not in the film gets more publicity about not being in in than the actors who actually are in it?
This film will not be complete with Shatner + his admittedly big ego.
269–Agreed well said.
It’s funny to me that Trek fans–known to be sticklers for canon. Want to seem to just “look the other way” when it comes to Kirk’s DEATH in Generations. He should have never agreed to that if he wanted to come back as Kirk again.
#296 KennyB
Why can’t it be the ‘continuing’ canon of the ‘current’ Trek ‘timeline’?…
The latest film-makers put ‘older’ Kirk ( in whatever alive capacity ) into their Movie an voila…the character remains ‘officially’ in the realm of a ’still fighting the odds’ fantasy character…
I personally don’t think that the shat is really doing himself many favours by continually whining… I think he should be in the movie but man… quit trying to bully your way into it!
he needs to pipe down and stop pushing his weight around then he may get some respite!
Roberto, quick question(s)… Without giving anything away, are all generations of trek fans going to be given their fix of trek?… what i mean is… I personally am a later trek fan, (i do like TOS, but only love the movies… I own them all on VHS :P) will i be given a significant fix of my preferred trek? I realise that in a previous interview you mentioned that later trek would get some kind of mention, but will it be obvious and significant, not just a panel saying ‘USS Archer’ etc??? of course i do also realise that for older Spock to be in the movie it needs to be in the TNG era, but i am personally looking for an on screen verification of this e.g. Seeing Starfleet officers in Nemesis uniform or maybe seeing the USS Titan *drools* I NEED MY FIX MAN!!…. Thanks
Fox news reporter Bill McCuddy was just on tv and he claims Shatner will be in ST XI.
Fox just had a story about Shatner being upset about supposedly not being in the film.
The anchor team alluded to the fact that few people outside of Trekkers would care about the film if Shatner + Nimoy are not involved. He also claimed and that there would be little buzz w/out them.
McCuddy hinted that Shatner’s rant may be a way to drum up publicity (which I don’t believe) for the film.
I don’t know if McCuddy knows something or if this is all speculation on his part.
The interesting thing was to see how non-trekkers reacted when they heard Shatner may not be in the film. They seemed to indicate that it wouldn’t be the same w/out Shatner.
Kirk was killed off in Star Trek GENERATIONS lest we forget.
Kirk is dead deal with it people.I for one could care less if he is in the new movie or not.I will still go and see it either way.
Yeah, Kirk was killed in Generations in 1994. End of story.
But wait — so was every single member of the Enterprise-D crew! Except for Picard, they all died when Veridian III exploded following Picard’s first battle with Soran. This did not affect Nexus-echo Guinan. Nor did it prevent them from reviving everyone by the end of the movie, and most of them went on to participate in three more TNG movies.
Kirk’s death in Generations felt strangely disconnected from the TOS/ST 1-6 franchise. It has never been referred to in canon again (although ironically this may change with Star Trek XI). Saying that Kirk’s story did not end on Veridian would be a good addition to, not a destruction of, canon.
Re: 271
The voice won’t be pestering me.
And the point is that Shatner could’ve changed that death if he really wanted to, yes he could’ve have thrown is weight around and said rewrite this or I won’t be in it… So, you can blame him for that voice in your head if you really have to. And because he accepted it as is, I’m saying that I don’t trust his judgment or care much for his “star power” these days…
Every single major character in TOS was killed off at one point or another. Spock even got his own film about bringing him back from the dead.
It’s time to bring Shatner back as Kirk.
Roberto Orci
185
With all this publicity that you don’t want, Do you still want William Shatner?
#305
Huh? Where is Trekmovie.com saying that is out for good?
lovely red velour…
Re: 304 – Resurrecting Shatner’s older Kirk does not appear to be the story that the screenwriter’s wrote… Maybe you should pitch your resurrection Kirk story to paramount and let these people make the Trek film that they want to make!
Now: Get over it. Grow up. Move out of your mom’s basement. Kiss a girl.
it occurs to me shatner does do cameos, or did. he parodied the kirk character in “airplane II”.
at the time I thought it would be the first and last time we’d see the enterprise on the big screen.
but now we must turn to more important things: as a previous poster asked…
DID tos have sonic showers?! we have a right to know.
#270 Shat didn’t show up in Airplane 2 until near the final scene of the movie…the moonbase scene…
That, to me, makes it a cameo.
Stack was all through the original airplane — not just one scene. Ergo, NOT a cameo, true.
Shatner’s was though.
#305, I would think he’s out for good this time — aren’t they starting shooting of this thing in November?
That does seem all too brief a time to acquire the skills to coax the Shat into the film…doncha think?
#312
Pike hasn’t yet been cast.
So no, it isn’t too late. Shatner wouldn’t be the only one joining the cast this late. Besides, it’s supposed to shoot until March or something. That’s plenty of time to get him in.
#288 Cervantes, and #240 Dan — These are a critical points.
1. Dan, yes, it was a mistake for the scriptwriters of Generations to hem Star Trek in by giving him a definitive end. Their attempt to give Kirk a heroic death backfired. Now it’s part of canon, and wiping the slate clean again would require dealing with that whole Nexus plotline again — not something that is worth revisiting, in my opinion.
2. Cervantes, the fact that the Old Kirk role wasn’t written into the script to begin with is the key reason why I believe Shatner was never realistically meant to be put in this film. From the beginning, it has always seemed to me that the writers/producers have merely expressed the desire in the abstract to have Shatner in the film, but belied an underlying pessimism about its feasibility with that phrase “desperately trying to find a way”.
And ultimately, my gut and by head both tell me that the reason for this pessimism has to do with the complexity of undoing the Generations ending well.
Let’s not kid ourselves — the ideas kicked around on these threads for resurrecting or otherwise nullifying the death of Kirk on Veridian 3 are clearly not the work of professional writers. I think the actual writers of STXI took a hard look at the situation and saw undoing Kirk’s death as the bugbear and killer of fresh ideas that it really is. It is not necessary to have read the script, nor is it rocket-science, to come to these conclusions.
- 306. Tom – October 27, 2007
- Roberto Orci
- 185
- With all this publicity that you don’t want, Do you still want William Shatner?
I know I wouldn’t. The Shat is being a Prat!
#14 Dre, et al — I understand your point of view and I feel similarly regarding Shatner as Kirk in the “classic Trek”, but I must point out that William Shatner is just a man, just an actor. I don’t see this as a publicity stunt on his part, nor do I think he is lobbying in earnest — I think he’s genuinely telling it like it is, and his public reaction to this is completely honest and transparent. Keep in mind that the “Shatnervision” clips we saw earlier are essentially his blog. And if reporters from AP ask him, what exactly does he have to gain from saying “no comment”, and what does he have to lose from just telling them the truth about how he feels, without going so far as to speak ill of the writers? Here as well, I see it further evidence that Shatner is definitely not in this film. It is over.
#314
What a poor point you make. What a poor point.
So none of us are professional writers? Hmm.
Are you a professional editor or something? What do you know about us or what we’ve published?
And remember, Generations was written by professional writers. That’s why it was so great. Professional writers always have good ideas, and people who aren’t professional writers don’t.
Right!
How embarrassing!
Imho it cannot be a story-issue as Leonard Nimoy himself said that the movie would be better with Shatner in it after he read the script. So if he sees a place where Shatner fits in, he fits in.
Could this whole thing just be a publicity stunt for promoting the movie and Shatner is in the movie but they are trying to keep it a secret so we will be surprised when we see the movie?
I don’t think it’s a publicity stunt – I think this is Shatner’s ego on full display (and I like the guy and would prefer he was in the movie, though I’ll check it out without him too, like almost all of you will whether you say you will or won’t). I think Bill is genuinely stunned that he’s not in it, because with his ego, he can’t grasp that there is any way the film could be good without him in it. He says as much when he says it’s a bad business decision – I’m so popular (he tells himself as well as us), how can it be a good idea? It’s such an affront to him (and his ego) that he’s acting out on it.
Lets face it, if you’re a regular on this site, you’re a hardcore fan – I know I am. But we’re not the regular everyday fan, nor are we the general public that only knows Star Trek in generalities. This movie is being aimed at the general public and average fan because there’s frankly more of them than us, but they’ve also already included (they promise) a lot of stuff for the hardcore fan to “get” when we see the film. I just don’t see Shatner (known more as Denny Crane and the Priceline guy to people under a certain age that make up a greater percentage of the movie-going public than they do of the overall population, so they have a disproportionate impact on movie-making decisions) not being in the movie being a deal breaker to most movie-goers. Just to the Shatner fans.
Well, my 2 cents is thus:
Having just watched Transformers and having seen the “intelligence” present in that film… And keeping in mind that the Trek movie wil be written by the same folks and that the leaked details of it so far include time travel (yay. )…
Sigh. I doubt this movie will live up to its hype at all. Transformers sure as hell didn’t.
They should put Shatner in. And Koenig, Takei, and Nichols. Put all of teh surviving members in. Because one last chance to see them all together will be the only reason to see the movie.
Out of respect for the fans and the franchise and the man himself, Shatner deserves to be in there. Especially since I doubt little respect will otherwise be shown to fans’ intelligence if the film is as “smart” as Transformers.
I love that image of Shatner. Does anyone know where it’s from? (BL I guess) I want that as my new wallpaper!!! :-)
#317: “So none of us are professional writers? Hmm.”
All right, perhaps he should have said “based on the evidence, not very *good* writers.”
That would certainly be fair comment upon the many ridiculous proposals made here for how to bring Shatner back.
#317 — More baiting and bullying from the dogmatic pro-Shatner camp… take it somewhere else.
I’ll just say this: I’m already convinced of the professionalism and narrative prowess of the writers of STXI from their other work, that’s what I’m going by.
As to Generations, I’m convinced that the poor writing had to do in no small part with trying to coddle the fanbase with a “passing the torch” ploy. The bottom line is that good writing concerns itself with good storytelling, not gimmicks. Trying to explain away the end of Generations with a few jaunty lines, a single scene or even a 5-minute sequence would inevitably reveal itself to be a mere facile, perfunctory gimmick. It’s that simple.
Look at it another way: What I’m saying is that the only real show of respect for the Shatner-as-Kirk characterization is to write a serious, meaty story about it, not to just squeeze it in as an afterthought in a script that has already been written. (Heck, we’re talking about a script that hasn’t just been written, but has undoubtedly already been refined through the course of several drafts, and then green-lighted by the studio/producers/execs.)
“Unwriting” Generations is no small task, doing it would go against the grain of STXI, and that sealed Shatner’s fate vis-a-vis this movie. I stand by position.
This polarizng subject is not surprising. Shatner has been the target of dislike, jelaousy, mud slinging, for whatever reasons, since the 70s. These types have been a vocal crowd for decades going on about how he treated the co-stars like dogs, wears tribbles on his head, is an ego-mainiac, he’s an awful director, uses ghostwriters, can’t act his way out of a paper bag etc etc. It’s nothing new, it’s been around in fandom forever. It just died down a bit with his resurgence in popularity. With emmys under his belt, this “in demand” actor is more popular than ever and this has silenced the Shatner bashers to some degree. BUt this type of stuff just opens the door enough for them to peek in and say “hi”, just to remind us all that they are still around.
But for the most part, people like him. A lot of people like him. A lot of people who, oddly enough, have never laid eyes on the man as Captain Kirk. And, as witnessed from these threads, there are also many who don’t like him. They seem to take the man’s personal side a bit too seriously and don’t wan’t the character of Kirk in the film, because they don’t like the percieved “character” of William Shatner, the man. The underlying dislike for the “man” Shatner comes shining through on so many of these posts. I find it interesting that so many are livid that he may be brought back. It’s like his death in Gernations was welcome and now the producers may -gasp- undo it.
For whatever reason, they are mortified that Shatner may reprise his role. The role of Kirk, who just happened to be the center, star and focus of Star Trek. How can any Trek fan be against that? I suppose Berman era fans might dismiss it, as many have, but this is a TOS-centric film. So, how can Shatner’s involvment, in any way, be a bad thing in a TOS film? Honestly, I don’t get it. Maybe someone named Shatner stole their lunch money as a kid, I don’t know, but there really is no good solid reason or argument that makes Shatner appearing in this film a bad thing….unless you really strongly dislike William Shatner and or his portrayal of Captain Kirk. There have been dozens of reasons why he shouldn’t be in it, but the bottom line is, his involvement would be a plus. I mean Nimoy is in it, how can Shatner’s participation, in light of that, be bad?
You have to give the writers credit for knowing whether or not they can make it work. If his involvement results in story structure issues, or plotting problems, then don’t put him in. Notice I said IF. Only the writers know for sure. The story shouldn’t suffer and I’m fine with that.
But If they have a “Shatner is in” version, waiting in the wings, which I would bet they do, where his involvement compliments the film, then the studio needs to just pony up the $ and “shat” or get off the pot.
#185
Mr Orci, thanks again for your time.
I was just imagining the following scenario – maybe you can use it for your film:
Shuttle:
Enterprise, come in, this is a distress call.
Enterprise:
We can read you, shuttle, what is it?
Shuttle:
Enterprise, we’re in distress. We are threatened by an unidentified force field which is blocking all our systems. We have only this one communication channel left to make contact. We were crossing the neutral zone when we lost navigation; might be approaching Klingon territory by now. We cannot sustain any longer. Repeat – this is a distress call; please come in, Enterprise.
Enterprise:
Understood, shuttle. I can assure you, we take no pleasure in your distress. Enterprise out.
#323 — Actually, I didn’t want to make a value judgment about the proposals being “good” or “bad” per se, just that the proposals weren’t in the league with professional screenwriters like Orci, Abrams, and Kurtzman.
Shatner today does not look like we would expect Kirk to look at this point.
It’s different with the Nimoy/Spock thing because Vulcans are suppose to live longer and Nimoy certainly has aged better.
James T. Kirk at an older age would be in better shape and still have a swagger. I don’t want Shatner in this film, …..I don’t want to see Shatner busting out of a starfleet uniform.
Leave him out.
I don’t want to see this movie if Shatner is not in it as James T. Kirk.
It’s really unfortunate that the Shat has seemingly morphed into a parody of himself. He’s really starting to remind me of the way Frank Caliendo played him on MAD TV. See below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSLvGH1mw2Q
To the screenwriters:
Please stick to your guns, your heart, and your insticts. Don’t be bullied by Mr Shatner or his rabbid attack-dog fan base with their adolescent whining about not seeing your film if their “boy” is not in the picture.
Don’t pander to anyone. This is not a committee. It is not a democracy. It’s your story. You are the writers. Period. It’s your voice and your vision of Gene Roddenberry’s creation. And I for one respect that and look forward to seeing the fruits of your labors.
All the luck in the world to you.
To the fans:
What would have happened if the fans pressured Nick Meyer and Harve Bennett into changing the ending of The Wrath of Khan because they did not want their beloved Spock to die?
Leave these people alone and let them do their job. You want to rewrite Generations so that Kirk lives, make a fan film.
Craig is NOT Bond. Whoops sorry, wrong rant, wrong franchise.
Same lunacy. ;)
What would have happened if the fans wouldn’t have pressured the producers when they planned to cancel TOS after season two to go on with another season?
The producers/writers can do ith this movie what they with it. It is their story.
I just voice my opinion. If they don’t put in Shatner, fine. Then Star Trek stays dead for me. Not that they don’t care. It’s just my opinion.
Err, I mean “not that I think that the producer care…”
I don’t care if one person says they don’t like an article I write (in the magazine I work for) and doesn’t buy the magazine, so why should the Star Trek producers care if someone says he won’t go see this movie?
We just voice our opinions here…
#330: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSLvGH1mw2Q
Best…Shatner impersonation…EVER! :lol: :lol:
333 – So it is Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations – BUT only if Shatner is involved? Star Trek teaches us to be tolerant. To embrace that which is new or different… Or as your favorite hero once said: Come now, young minds fresh ideas. Be Tolerant.
A lot of people are afraid of change. I understand that. But to close your mind to this film simply because you don’t get your way is childish at best. To be closed minded because you only see one vision–the vision that Shatner must play an older Kirk in this film–is sad.
Shatner as Kirk’s dad would be OK.After all He kinda IS the father of Kirk,as He rendered the first interpretation of the character.It would be a fitting homage to the actor.
#331
You are right that it is not a democracy or a committee.
But …
The movie-going public is.
If they want it to be successful, it’ll have to appeal to lots of people, and not just fulfill their own personal vision.
They should be doing both – making a great story and also making it appealing for TOS fans.
Perhaps someone needs to go to Bill, and simply state…
“You’re dead, Jim”
James Kirk will return in the “Man with the Golden Deal” coming soon….
This whole thing is so bloody frustrating. I am at home with a cold today, so just watched Wrath Of Kahn on dvd, while my lovely wife went to the shops for supplies.
Laying there under a blanket on the sofa I just kept thinking about how I want to be excited about this new movie, but I just can’t until this whole Shat thing is worked out. Hopefully with the result being he is in the movie.
I don’t actually care who is to blame, be it Paramount suits, JJ and crew or Shatner himself.
It is in the best interests of all concerned to resolve this, whoever is causing the problem.
If it is you Shat, don’t be a prat. Take a really cool cameo that re-establishes Kirk is alive if it is on offer. If they are offering you anything other that Kirk on the other hand, tell ‘em where to stick it!
If it’s you JJ, you ‘aint Spielberg powerful just yet. I say that as someone who has really enjoyed your work so far. Make changes to Trek, but bring the geeks with you by having Shatner and Nimoy in there.
Paramount, despite what the future may bring, William Shatner is still Kirk and if you want to have maximum goodwill towards your new boy then you don’t do it by having just Nimoy in the picture and therefore reminding everyone of the big hole created by the missing Shatner.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. I’m getting angry now. It must be my cold.
ok never posted here before
but i was thinking that perhaps they could use the talosians again as a plot device? ala “the cage” and “menagerie”…now as we all now they can make reality out of nothing, or at least an illusion, since they havnt been seen since “the menagerie” i thought perhaps they could use that as a way to get kirk back in. So let’s imagine at the end of the movie (assuming nimoy’s spock dosnt die, which would just be such a bad decision) spock goes to talos IV to “retire”. Granted it sounds a little cheezy, but this would allow kirk to exist again on talos. To me it would seem like a fitting end for the character of spock, as we first saw him chronologically in “the cage” and then to end so many years of service to the galaxy in the company of old friends lost long ago. It would complete the journey of the original cast, without violating “generations” and at least leave the audience with the idea that kirk can never be killed as long as he lives on with spock, and on talos he can, in a sense really live again. To me this would give closer to what happened in generations and complete the circle that is TOS. Im sure handled properly with good writing they could make this work.
id be interested to see if anyone agrees or disagrees with an idea like that
cheers
You’d think that all of ‘his’ books would have satisfied the ego of most mortals, but, not WS’.
To borrow elements of a line of dialogue from “Mission to Mars”… “There isn’t enough rocket fuel in the universe to lift that ego off of the ground.”
Bill? Get a life.
/old-time Trek fan
#336 You are probably right.
But as I cannot watch many movies in the cinema (I hav a little child to attend to) I have to carefully choose which movie to watch.
And if William Shatner would reprise his role as Captain Kirk one last time THIS would be the movie I simply would have to watch on Christmas 2008.
Of course, Trek without Kirk has been so good, hasn’t it?
Loved that Voyager and Enterprise. Oh and that DS9. They all filled me with a sense of wonder and adventure.
So, Shatner doesn’t do “cameos”, eh?
Of course, some of us could remind others of the quote, “there are no small parts, just small actors”……..but, I digress……
If a small, but important, part has been offered to the Shat, tell him to take the role, be happy if he even gets the SAME money as Nimoy….and to SHUT THE HELL UP already!!
Maybe the real trouble is that the producers can’t squeeze Shatner’s MASSIVE ego into the small part they have ready for him……
345 – That has NOTHING to do with Kirk and everything to do with Rick Berman and Braga. TNG was one of the most beloved and successul shows on TV and KIRK was NEVER in it. And, it had some wonderful episodes – Inner Light, All Good Things…
And while we are on the subject of DS9 – Far Beyond the Stars was a slam dunk – great Star trek writing.. Up there with City on the Edge of Forever.
So take your Cynicism and bury it.
345…I sense your sarcasm there lol
No sarcasm here, I just flat out didn’t care for anything from the 24th century. Completely different animal, like changing the channel from TOS to Barnaby Jones. That’s why this movie excites me, Shat or no Shat…it’s a throwback to old school Star Trek storytelling with all creative ties to the 24th century Trek assembly line mostly severed.
Shatner’s involvement would be Shat-tastic, but the sheer fact that they have shown Berman, and his sensibilities, the door, will put me in the seat on Xmas day.
Kirk died get over it!
Over at CNN.com it’s the second most popular story! But no where in the story does it say that his characther died in 94, so it makes it sound like JJ and crew are being really stubborn!
And who cares if his charakter died in 94? Spock died, too (not to mention Chekov died in “Spectre of the Gun”, Scotty died in “The Changeling”, Tasha Yar died and came back etc.).
As Shatner said himself: This is science fiction. It wouldn’t take much to bring Kirk back from the dead.
350- It was the top story yesterday when I read it. If nothing else, alot of CNN surfers are at least interested in what’s going on with Shatner and Trek, most of which probably weren’t even aware that a new Star Trek movie was in the works.
Even in science fiction there is a basis of reality. And don’t use Q as an example. Bringing Spock back to life was cleverally done and with all the intention of possibly bringing him back. The only way I can think of bringing him back would be through the Nexus, but it’s been used.
Dennis,
Writing — like any other art form — is a subjective thing.
Just because YOU don’t like something doesn’t make it bad or without merit.
Having said that, Tin Man is one of my favorite TNG episodes and I like your CGI work too. Others, however, could see all of it as crap.
;-)
I LOOK AT IT THIS WAY IN SCI FI ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IF YOU BRING SPOCK ON YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE ORIGANAL KIRK BACK TO!!! ANY GOOD WRITER COULD IMAGINE THIS WITH THE STROK OF THE PEN. DONT GET ME WRONG IVE BEEN A TREEKIE SINCE THE FIRST STARTREK AIRED!!! BUT WITHOUT THE ORIGANAL KIRK IN THIS STORY THIS MOVIE WILL HAVE SHACY LEGS TO STAND ON!!!!! ITS NOT THAT KIRK IS A GOD IS RATHER FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OVER16 YRS KIRK STANDING SIDE BY SIDE AGAIN WITH A GOOD STORY IS THE BEST WAY TO SEND THIS NEW GENERATIN OFF ON A GOOD START!! YOU DONT HAVE TO HAVE A Q TO BE THE ONE THAT GETS IT DONE. TIME TRAVEL FOR ANY FEDERATION SHIP IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE LOOK AT ST4 THEY DID IT USING SPEED AROUND THE SUN, OR FROM THE NAKED TIME WHEN THEY IMPLOTED THE ENGINES!!! HEY JJ ARE YOU HEARING THIS?????
Re: #346.
Ah, but a more Shatneresque quote would be this one, from Sunset Boulevard:
“I am big. It’s the pictures that got small.”
I do think he has a ginormous charisma that would give the film a jolt, but on the other hand, he has a ginormous charisma that could throw off the balance of the entire film. You remember that feeling, when you first watched Generations? Every time Shatner appeared on screen with Patrick Stewart, Stewart seemed to shrink a size or two. And I say this as a fan of Patrick Stewart.
It’s safe to say most of us here are on Brother Shatner’s side and would like to see him in the movie. But as much as we love the man, and as much as we’re enjoying this whole tempest-in-a-teapot, the movie will not sink or swim on Shatner’s involvement. It will be made regardless. I will see it regardless. It will make boatloads of money regardless. But ain’t it fun making noise about it?
Now I need to return to the real world. This website is addictive. Save me from it.
its showing up on all the major news websites now…e.g BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7065470.stm
Heed Shatner’s message here –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wed_b6yShc
Why would they “snub” William Shatner as the article claims? I have read this in several places over the last couple of days.
It seems like a very poor decision from whoever is writing this film.
That is very sad news. I thought he was in this film.
Well I agree that it’s pretty shocking that Dumbledore is gay.
Just give it a frickin rest folks. An old Kirk cannot be in the film. No old Kirk ever existed. To add Shatner as an old Kirk would require some serious lame explanation or re-writing canon.
So enough already.
Shatner Zombie demand sacrifice! Wonder where Shatner Zombie could find virgins?
PS. That was a joke because I am a virgin myself if anybody takes offense. Also just like to say I will be in the theaters Xmas 08 no matter what because I want GREAT STAR TREK!!!
# 347 It’s not me being cynical, it’s me stating my opinion.
If you can’t cope with an opinion which does not chime with yours then I’m sorry.
I would not be so rude or stoop so low as to tell you to “bury” your opinion. I respect it even though I do not agree.
IDIC ring a bell? Sheesh.
In my opinion DS9, apart from a handful of good shows, was just not what I look for in Star Trek. Voyager was simply awful and Ent was a nice idea and had some good episodes in the last year.
As I have stated before though, I would only claim to be a fan on TOS and some TNG.
I never said anything against TNG. I would be happy for Patrick Stewart to be in this movie along with William Shatner.
Kirk of course was mentioned in TNG, and a shiver went down my spine every time it happend.
Still keeping the faith.
#354: “Writing — like any other art form — is a subjective thing.
Just because YOU don’t like something doesn’t make it bad or without merit.
Having said that, Tin Man is one of my favorite TNG episodes and I like your CGI work too. Others, however, could see all of it as crap.”
And many do. Thanks for the kind words about my work; I appreciate it.
#345: “Of course, Trek without Kirk has been so good, hasn’t it?”
Well, it’s been enormously successful and popular – far more so, in many ways, than TOS – and there are millions of people (especially outside the United States) who definitely consider it not only good but better than the original.
If you require further clarification, see #354, above. :)
Just So Sad that Bill Shatner is not in the movie.
Opportunity lost to get Bill & Leonard back for one last mission!
And Leonard was the hardest to get.
Surely there was a way to make it so!
#364 While I enjoyed TNG and agree with you to a point, success and popularity in popular culture does not always equate with quality.
Trek as a strong brand was able to ride for several years on the good will and love created by TOS and TNG. Fans kept coming back like someone in an abusive relationship hoping things would change.
I do not think the quality of output since 1993 has been anywhere near the good work which built Trek’s fanbase to that point.
In my personal opinion.
If the movie was bookended with Picard helping Spock go back in time and Kirk being there at the end to rescue his shuttle adrift in space, now alive as a result of timeline changes, I would be immeasurably happy.
If only ego and money were not involved.
Sorry about my poor spelling and grammar, I have a stinking cold!
Keep the faith!
#330
that was THE funniest shatner Impression *ever*!! thanks for sharing
Its made the headlines around the world because Bill is not in it.
Imagine the headlines if he was in it!
If this was 1990’s I’d be really pissed they’re making this movie without the original cast.
But today with two actors gone and the remainder a bit aged to tell anything but one type of specific story, I’d like to see the new movie with all new actors. And yeah, I’d like to see Shatner in it too, Kirk died a lousy death. But frankly, if I don’t like it, I ignore it. To me Kirk is still alive. Sure, it would be great to see them bring him back, but all that has to be a natural outgrowth of the story. If it isn’t, then I’d just rather it be as it is, introducing the characters before the original series.
I’m more interested in how they’ll depict the Enterprise, the sets and the history and if it will fit in fairly well with the original series.
In actuality, I’d prefer they just reboot the whole thing and start over with elements of the classic. Then they could just create the future history all over without having to integrate the story into everything that’s gone before. But from what I’ve read, it seems the story will explain the changes they want to make.
If having Shatner enhances the story, bring him in, if not, leave him out.
Big deal.Nimoy wasn’t in “Generations” (Shatner’s good bye to Kirk)) and Shatner won’t be in this one (Nimoy’s good bye to Spock).
369
Good point.
Thank you Jon(30) and Bubba Hot tep (great movie by the way). If Kirk was not dead, than sure I would like him back, but it is almost impossible to think of a legtimate reason to bring him back that does not retract from the current story.
370, I think you have it perfectly.
And at the very least the people talking about how Trek’s “continuity” lapses at times – as far as I know they’ve never pulled the crummy “B-movie” staple where a character that died a scene or two earlier shows up in the background of a following scene. Bringing Kirk back to suppress Shatner’s ego (or paycheck demands) just doesn’t cut it.
Wow I go away for a few hours and this thread has grown…
Just read…your 369. and I would agree with you 100% a big part of me would of been just as happy with a nice reboot taking all the great elements from the classic original series and go from there. Part of me can’t believe I would say that as some reboots can be quite horrid. But of late I really have enjoyed many restarts on the small screen and big screen. No need to trot out the usual suspects on this subject.
But they are hanging in continuity, although with the hot rumors of the plot line that tweaks the original time line so they probably can change elements such as the style, designs, etc. Although I really want to see TOS series look on the big screen! They seem to have teased that with all the posters promoting this film. But hey in the next few weeks there will be some classic TREK on the big screen.;)
Hmmmm now what were we talking about. Oh yeah bring back KirK! eerrrr… I mean the SHAT! ;)
325
Subtle.
Shame on everyone to have forgotten, with all this arguing going on, another crucial figure in Trek history!!
I am, of course, referring to………….MUGATU!!
Am I the only one who longs for the return of Mugatu????????????
Some fans want the return of the Shat
Even though he’s now silly, old and fat
He plays the fool well
And you never can tell
He might be in Trek XI at that!
This is reminding me of that big budget film “The Legend Of the Lone Ranger”, anybody remember that turkey? Here the producers had a clear opportunity to incorporate one of the most beloved characters of modern western mythology “Clayton Moore” as the aging Lone Ranger who comes across a younger man ambushed and left for dead, who nurses him back to health and trains him in the art of Law Enforcement Old West style. Then when the younger man is ready Clayton Moore with his back to the camera removes his mask and hands it over to the other man as he rides off into the sunset. The younger man gives a fond farewell wave as the old man rides away, then dons the mask turns to the camera as The Lone Ranger Theme plays loudly and were off for new adventures with the masked man of the plains. Man that would have made that film for me.
Sadly the producers chose another path and rest is movie dumpster history.
342: I like your idea. It’s original and would wrap up the Spock saga in a nice set of bookends.
But to say that an illusion of Kirk is like having him alive is the same as saying he will always live on as long as we have videotapes of him.
It would be less satisfying than just accepting he is dead.
I for one would like some more info on sets ,ship design,production design,interviews with the creative staff etc. scketches?
Mr Orci
How about a candid cast picture.
Me want pics of new cast!
Please?
362 – IDIC… let me think… Oh yes, I mentioned IDIC in an earlier post on this same thread.
I did not mean to come off so… well, mean. So I’m sorry. I must’ve misread the tone of your email. That or all this Bring back Shat or else crap (nice pun, right?) is just making my head spin.
The Shatner ‘news’ stuff will die down and ultimately not harm the film. Nimoys in it, which makes it must see IMO. If the public like the teasers and previews they will see it. The only people likely to boycott the movie would be a few Kirk diehards and I honestly believe they would be in the minority. This Shatner stuff will not harm the film at all.
This is the headline over at CNN –
Shatner: How come I’m not in new ‘Star Trek’?
And I have an answer. Because, Mr. Shatner, you are a bloated parody of your former self. I do not believe you can pull of the great performances you once commanded in Star Trek TMP, II, III, IV and VI.
Sorry. It’s my opinion.
The most pressing, and valid, point in bringing Kirk back from the dead is that it brings legitimacy back to life-or-death situations where the main character, Kirk, is concerned. At the time he was killed off, it wasn’t expected that the character would ever be used again. But now that he is being used again, it seems necessary to do something in this film that negates the death of Kirk. It seems that it’s up to Shatner to take the part written for him that does that, but I think that it will be undone with or without the Shat’s help. Right now, we’re in a situation where we want to read a book, but the ending has been spoiled already. Scenes of life-and-death will lose their urgency because we already know how he dies. We know he survives to fall off a bridge. I’m sure Roberto and Alex have figured out how to fix that, but are getting nowhere with the Shat. I hope it does end up fixed, though, because if it isn’t, it really punches holes in scenes with intensity.
379: yeah i agree that its never going to be satisfying having just an illusion of kirk. I think it would be better for trek itself if there was some mystery to his death/revival…illusion or real? maybe having him in there and not explicitly explaining how/why he survived, and with the talosian element, the rest can be left to our imagination….but then again im not making the movie. I wonder if the writers have considered something like this.
like you said though i think the original cast need some bookends to wrap up TOS and the movies. Maybe by doing justice to the spock character and wrapping up his story properly may give some credibility to the way in which kirk died. I don’t have as much of a problem with his death as others, i just think they have a really good opportunity with the new movie to fix the blunder.
on a side note though i still dont understand why we havnt ever seen the talosians since.
349 – It is in the article:
“Past “Trek” films presented an obstacle to the revival of Shatner’s Kirk, who died at the end of 1994’s “Star Trek: Generations.”"
#378: “This is reminding me of that big budget film ‘The Legend Of the Lone Ranger’…”
Despite your eloquent recounting, that film had so many shortcomings exclusive of the non-participation of Clayton Moore that it’s disingenuous to suggest his absence was the reason for his failure.
#384. “Shatner: How come I’m not in new ‘Star Trek’?
And I have an answer. Because, Mr. Shatner, you are a bloated parody of your former self. I do not believe you can pull of the great performances you once commanded in Star Trek TMP, II, III, IV and VI. ”
…sigh….See my previous post @ 324.
#324 … WELL SAID, star trackie. There’s really nothing to add, I believe you covered it all.
#384 “I do not believe you can pull of the great performances you once commanded in Star Trek TMP, II, III, IV and VI.”
Yeah, because actors forget how to perform once they get older. That makes a lot of sense! We’re not talking about professional sports here. Put Shatner in the film, and he’d deliver one of the best – if not THE best – performance in it. He’s been nominated for/winning Emmys for how many years running now?
Saying Shatner can’t act anymore is like saying Star Trek fans have too much of a life to be posting on a website all weekend long. It just ain’t true!
#390:”Put Shatner in the film, and he’d deliver one of the best – if not THE best – performance in it.”
That would be unprecedented among the Trek films he’s appeared in – well, among all the films he’s appeared in really (not excepting “The Devil’s Rain”).
#329 Pragmaticus…That Shatner/Boston Legal spoof on MadTV was hilarious! I’m amazed how much his voice sounded like the Shat’s.
Mike :o
Another Shatastic performance: http://www.bigbonuschecks.com/collins
399 posts at this point. I think this speaks for itself. No one else generates this much excitement.
No doubt a bigger box office draw with Mr. Shatner in it.
Do it.
# 390 What you said? It’s all good.
# 382 Respect.
Keep the faith.
#394:”399 posts at this point. I think this speaks for itself. No one else generates this much excitement.”
Yep, about 400 posts so far – mainly by ten or twelve people, some of whom are against Shatner being in the film.
Clearly, if Abrams doesn’t cast Shatner he’s throwing away a cool 70 or 80 bucks at the box office!
Surely at this point Shatners presence has to serve the story. I would have no respect for anything it the story was changed just to serve the Shatner.
Sure, it it works, great, I’ll do a happy dance … but otherwise let it go.
And don’t forget, Shatnet ALLOWED himself to get killed off in Generations. If he didn’t want the Kirk character to be out of the system and out of the Trek timeline, he should never have agreed to be in it.
Nimoy agreed to kill Spock too…
Anyway besides the money argument, Shatner has a genuine love for the character. And why wouldn’t he. He helped develop the character.
If you dont believe me read the making of Star Trek (I believe its by Stephen Whitfield), it states that Shatner would often go into Roddenberry’s office and help flesh out the character.
Also Shatner and Nimoy came up with many scenes for TMP by acting them out in front of Roddenberry and Wise after they improvised stuff.
Shatner has an interest in the character not just the money. It’s a character he helped mould and form, on and off screen.
To Dennis Bailey. Hi there. I’m curious as you are a writer, how you would introduce older Kirk, given what plot details we know if you had to. As a challenge, how would you integrate older Kirk in the script? I’m not asking to rubbish whatever idea you come up with, im genuinely interested.
PS – Mr Orci always responds to IowaGirl… if i changed my name to FemaleDalek do you think i’ll have a shot ;) Anyway Mr Orci, non-Shatner related, I’ve got hold of Jack of all trades, and its bloody brilliant. Laugh out loud good. All the one liners are equal to those of Army of Darkness. Black Beard and Napoleon, inspired casting. I’m near end of season 1, why the short season 2. This series was too good to end suddenly.
#391 “That would be unprecedented among the Trek films he’s appeared in”
It comes as no surprise to anyone at all that you’d think so, “Shatner Fan 2008″.
I’m sure Chris Pine isn’t feeling any pressure at all (kidding).Honestly though.I’m really really looking forward to his performance.I think He’s gonna be great.He looks so right.
Jon# 400
Isn’t it funny that nobody is talking about Chris Pine. Yet there are now thousands of posts about William Shatner returning as Kirk.
#399: “It comes as no surprise to anyone at all that you’d think so…”
Well, as long as we’re going to speak for a large unseen and un-polled “anyone” – it should come as no surprise to anyone with taste that *anyone* would think so. What *would* surprise most folks is that *anyone* might consider Shatner a major figure of the American cinema (as opposed to TV, where he plausibly can be said to matter).
#402 “What *would* surprise most folks is that *anyone* might consider Shatner a major figure of the American cinema”
Hmm. I don’t consider him that. “Kingdom of the Spiders” was sure no JAWS. But I think anyone who knows anything about Star Trek knows that 1) He was the series star; 2) he’s the most popular veteran of the franchise, riding higher than ever today even without Trek’s help, and 3) Paramount, after years of dismal failure, is now desperately attempting to go back to the old well and piggyback on his and his old show’s success. Ok, that’s all for now. I have parties to go to. Take it away and knock yourself out here for the rest of the night. :)
#398 “Mr Orci always responds to IowaGirl…”
That’s because she rocks.
Dennis #306
You underestimate the popularity of Shatner and TOS.
TOS is the pop culture icon, not it’s spinoffs.
Nobody in the mainstream could tell you anything about the more recent series or the actors/characters in them.
While on the other hand Shatner/Nimoy as Kirk + Spock are as familiar to the pop culture landscape as Coke + Elvis.
It’s that fact that people like you and Rick Berman simply don’t get. Star Trek turning it’s back on these iconic characters nearly killed the franchise.
Kirk + Spock’s iconic stature is also the reason we are getting a Kirk + Spock film rather than any of the other series or a film based on all new characters.
If as you submit the other series were just as popular we aren’t we getting a Voyager or Enterprise film?
Let me answer my own question. The reason we are getting a TOS film is simply because TOS and it’s characters + actors dwarf the popularity + stature of the other series characters + actors.
I understand that you prefer the other series + don’t care if Shatner is in the film, but please get real about TOS and Shatner’s stature compared to the other series,characters + actors.
Sorry, I meant to say Dennis # 396
Dennis,
Actually, my guess is that given a good script and direction Shatner would probably turn in a really good performance; certainly, his best since THE WRATH OF KHAN. It would be his last time up at bat, and no one knows that better than him. Which still isn’t sufficient reason to include him in this film, though, if his presence wouldn’t serve the story.
Mr. Orci
No disrespect intended, but why won’t you just make a statement about what is going on?
#407 Maybe he can’t!
#404:”I understand that you prefer the other series + don’t care if Shatner is in the film, but please get real about TOS and Shatner’s stature…”
Actually, I prefer TOS to all the other series. I prefer TOS-as-in-*Original TV Series* to the TOS-based movies. And I don’t care whether Shatner is in the film.
As for popularity…again, Paramount has done very very well since 1987 with TNG and to a lesser degree the other spinoffs. You would not have to look very hard in the U.S. – hell, go check out the other Trekkie boards – to find younger people who far prefer the modern Trek shows to TOS. That’s even more true in Europe.
Actually Mr. Orci has made a few statements about what is going on RE: Shatner…these two may be most poignant.
“we might start shooting without closure to this issue — our deadlines for various actions are not subject yo intuitive rules.”
- Orci, Oct 22, 7:14 PM
“Debate rages within us, too.”
- Orci, Oct 21, 12:30 AM
#410 Speculating for one second Anthony, do you think there’s a possibility whatever is happening they don’t want to inform Shatner, god bless him (and i love him), because he can’t keep his mouth shut :) I say that because if there’s one thing I know, Bill is very open with his fans.
“As I recall you took the test three times yourself. Your final solution was, shall we say, unique? “
Remember, this is the longest scheduled shoot of any Trek film. There is still time to film arouund him and still get him in the film….assuming they have an idea already in place, which I’m sure they do.
Not much time though. If Shatner is signed for the film, and if the producers and Shatner don’t want to keep it under wraps, we should be hearing something by Turkey day as I would assume they would want to pick up Shatner’s scenes during the holiday hiatus of Boston Legal..
Re: #398
Nimoy agreed to a great script where his character’s death was meaningful, heroic, and treated with respect. There is the difference between Nimoy (and Spock’s death) and Shatner (and Kirk’s death).
Re: 404 – That is utter crap. Data and Picard are in the mainstream as Star Trek icons. “Engage” is just as famous as “Beam me up Scotty,” or “He’s dead, Jim.”
If the Red Sox (go Sawx!!!) can win the World Series twice in the last 4 years (and they are going to) it is proof that miracles can happen. Thus, Captain Kirk can return from the dead. Just get it done.
#396 Dennis..A very funny post! You made me laugh with your sarcastic and hilarious comments!
Off the Shatner thread for a moment…I just read the list of “TV Guides 50 Greatest Television Shows of All Time”…and you know Star Trek TNG was in the list..but not TOS!!??
While I don’t have a problem with TNG being in that list, it dumbfounds me that TOS was omitted! I really dont get it….
Mike :o
#396 Dennis…A very funny and sarcastic post- you really made me laugh!
Off the Shatner thread for a moment…I just read the list of “TV Guides 50 Greatest Television Shows of All Time”. I was dumbfounded to see that Star Trek TNG made the top 50, but Star Trek TOS was not even listed!
While I have no problem with TNG being honored in this list, it does seem outrageous that the orginal show, the program that set a new standard for intelligent, quality science fiction television, was omitted. If not for TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT would never have existed!
Mike :o
Anthony P kindly remove one of my last two posts. Sorry about the double posts, my connection speed to your site is horrible tonight!
#415
Horta – you are mistaken and Camaro 09 was right.
Data and Picard are not as well known and Spock and Kirk.
And “Beam me up Scotty” is much more well known than “Engage.”
This might not be true in a younger crowd (people under 30). But overall, I am quite certain that the TOS characters and quotations are known to more people worldwide. Call it crap if you want, but your ability to make use of colorful metaphors does nothing to validate your claim.
#414 Actually if you read the literature, and I have, both Nimoy and Shatner were promised glorious deaths. That Nick Meyer could script it; and Braga and Moore couldn’t, is incidental.
Shatner did NOT sign on, on the basis that Soran shooting him in the back, or being chucked off a bridge was the way to go.
He didn’t know the HOW. Just the result.
Anyway Generations is redundant, the real issue is: Have they got a part for Shatner as older kirk in the new movie? Then we can debate Generations til we are blue in the mouth ;) Right now the only thing relevant is if he’s in it. If not the debate about Generations is pointless.
#415 -”“Engage” is just as famous as “Beam me up Scotty,”
You’re kidding, right?
415 – You must be joking. I really hope you’re joking. TNG is nowhere near as mainstream as TOS.
#388 “Despite your eloquent recounting, that film had so many shortcomings exclusive of the non-participation of Clayton Moore that it’s disingenuous to suggest his absence was the reason for his failure.”
Well, I have to agree with you there and I was not trying to suggest that his absence was the primary reason this movie tanked, only suggesting that if Mr. Moore had been in the film, it would be in my collection now.
#375
Thank you.
#415 — Although I am a big TNG fan, and I prefer Picard to Kirk and Stewart to Shatner in the role of starship captain, I have to agree with the others on this: “Beam me up, Scotty” and “He’s dead Jim” are used by people who have marginal knowledge of Star Trek (the mainstream), whereas “Engage” and “Make it so” are known pretty much only to people closer to Star Trek (call them Star Trek casual viewers, at the very least). That’s my experience anyway.
P.S. — I was watching a TOS show the other day (don’t remember which one) when I was shocked to hear *captain Kirk* utter the word “Engage” to the helm.
Hearing Kirk say anything would keep us engaged
The fact that he’s dead has us all so enraged
He’s our kind of hero
To face up to Nero
Romulan Ale tastes better when aged!
Shatner is big, heavy and maybe even FAT. Unless he can lose 50 pounds by shooting time he shouldn’t be in the film. How can I judge on his size…..easy…..if Kirk were real, he wouldn’t look like Shatner does today. Kirk would be in shape, buff, etc. Maybe I’m being silly about this, but like it or not, he died already in that awful Generations movie…..Do you think they’re going to spend time in the movie telling us how Kirk came back from the dead.
SHATNER IS FAT. KIRK IS DEAD. Leave ol billy boy out.
Personally, I’m just thrilled that Berman is no longer a part of Trek….it needed a new direction that Berman could never give it…Good night!
Well, well.
Times they are a changing.
Some things [and people] still matter to the public at large, especially when the mainstream media get ahold of it. I sense a sea change, and I wonder how long it’ll be before many Shatner detractors here and elsewhere are now for his inclusion before they were against it.
Mr. Abrams made a critical error in not including Bill, one that will most definitely sink this film, as opposed [and including] the stated premise, and writing of its creative team, if it’s anything similar to what I was subjected to in Transformers; and in my opinion, he’d be far better off staying as far away from this upcoming Christmas 2008 turkey as he possibly can.
Let the games begin.
409-
Really? TOS? When did that happen?
429
maybe we’ll ask him to be in Transformers 2 to really make you happy.
#415 … Allow me to add my voice to the chorus that is disagreeing with you. You’re way off.
#409 Dennis Bailey … “You would not have to look very hard in the U.S. – hell, go check out the other Trekkie boards – to find younger people who far prefer the modern Trek shows to TOS. That’s even more true in Europe”
LOL. The man who’s constantly engaged in a Quixotic quest to prove the “unimportance” of Shatner expects anyone to care what a few young people in Europe supposedly think? As you are so fond of saying: Prove it. Let’s see some figures.
And hey, does this trend in Europe account for the fact that Star Trek flat-lined a few years ago, and Paramount is now grasping for Shatner-era Trek and the character of Captain Kirk as its only lifeline? Where were those young Euros when we needed them?
the film will fail because shatner wont appear for a small moment?
I doubt it
Look, this is a recreation of the original concept, there’s absolutely no need for the old cast. Sticking Shatner in just because geeks are calling for it might only lead to stupid weak writing to make it happen. And anybody suggesting the entire original cast should be in the film must not care if the movie is going to be any good or not. You idiot mega-fans would be the death of the movie if you got your way.
William Shatner, warts and all, brought Kirk to life and made Star Trek (along with Nimoy as Spock).
Without that you would never have had TNG and all the watered down spin offs.
Sure he has an ego the size of the Albert Hall. Hmmm. Wonder how many people in the entertainment world you could say that about?
Some of the critical comments (by no means ALL but SOME) on here seem to amount to nothing more that:
“Damn that Shatner, he got old!”
“Damn that Shatner he got fatter than he was in his 30’s and 40’s!”
Poor guy. He’s 76 and still plugging away and let me tell you I would be quite happy to be doing so well when I am that age.
Maybe he can be a pain to negotiate with, but from a punters point of view, the world is a better place with the Shat in it.
And as for any cheese factor that he may bring, if you think the only thing in Star Trek that was ever cheesey was Shatner then I beg to differ.
Keep the faith.
All these Shatner lovers kinda scare me.
I’m not way off, people. TNG is just as much a part of pop culture as the the original series. It ran for 7 seasons, and was the highest rated show on syndication. People the world over know what a BORG is. When someone says, “make it so” they know you are referring to Picard and they know WHO Picard is.
#436 Don’t be scared.
; )
#436
Trick or Treat?
#437
- People the world over know what a BORG is. -
The secret has been disclosed – they’ve chosen a TOS-based film to appeal to a new target group, the EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL audience.
First CNN, now it’s headline news on the BBC:
“Shatner Sad Over Trek Movie Snub”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7065470.stm
#441 Sorry. The BBC thing has already been reported above. Forgive me.
#437 in my honest opinion, TNG is NOT as big culturally as TOS. I’m sorry- but whenever you read about anything that is faintly futuristic its always described as being something you would find on Captain Kirks bridge or some such description. I’ve never, not once, seen TNG used in this way. And I look- boy do I look! And it feels my soul with joy that TOS still, after all these years, is the first port of call when writers wish to convey the future with the help of something that EVERYBODY knows.
#431 I love the way you can be coaxed out so easily! pmsl
#442. I think Captain Picard is equally as known as Captain Kirk. Perhaps morso for non fans because of his status as an actor.
TNG was a ratings phenomena, don’t just judge how well it did as movies
It wasn’t like TNG was NATIONALLY a top rated show. It just did extremely well for syndication, and for good reason. It deserved that. It was a well written show.
The movies tanked. For good reason. They were terrible.
#443
Damn, I’ve always suspected Captain Picard of being an actor. Thanks for the confirmation.
#429 … “and in my opinion, he’d be far better off staying as far away from this upcoming Christmas 2008 turkey as he possibly can.”
Oh please!
I see some of the BBK extemists feel if they can’t have their way, they might as well trash the movie, the writers and anyone else who dare comment that it’s OK for Shatner to NOT be in the movie.
It is the same few BBK extremists here that say the same thing over and over. You can exercise your displeasure Dec 25 2008 by staying away from the theaters.
Here’s a thought, make your own movie. Call it
“Brokeback Mountain II: The Search For Kirk”
424 dtST
The thing that’s hard about the question of TOS versus TNG knowledge in the mainstream is that everyone on here is a Star Trek fan, so our perspectives are inherently biased. You have to take a sample from the people who *never* ever watch science fiction of any kind, TV or film. I have some of these at work — one woman in her early 50s didn’t know what a lightsaber was. If you ask a person like that whether she knows who captain Kirk is, and what “beam me up, Scotty” means, I’m pretty much sure she’d know (for one thing, she’s in the right age group for some of her peers to have referenced stuff like that in her teens). However, I am *positive* she wouldn’t know who Picard is, or the phrases “engage” and “make it so” and certainly not (my personal favorite) “tea, Earl Grey, hot”. Another example: my own mother watched plenty of TOS in her early 20s, but I know for a fact she doesn’t know who Picard is, nor would those phrases have any meaning to her (but she sure as heck knows what a lightsaber is :-))
#428-
“ess he can lose 50 pounds by shooting time he shouldn’t be in the film. How can I judge on his size…..easy…..if Kirk were real, he wouldn’t look like Shatner does today. Kirk would be in shape, buff, etc. Maybe I’m being silly about this,”
Yes, you’re being extremely silly. Both William Shatner and Shatner, as Kirk, would be 76 years old. To suggest that he, or ANY 76 year old, should be “buff” is a bit much, don’t ya think?
#447–why are you flamebaiting? And why are you calling people who support Shatner “extremists?” It’s the exact opposite.
It seems that there are people that will trash Shatner at any cost. THEY are the extremists. Fact is, William Shatner is still one of the more popular actors out there, and there’s a reason this story became mainstream. A LOT of people like this man.
And everything Shatner has said, has been honest. I don’t even think the Bring Back Kirk campaign is here.
The fans matter. And people are speaking up. These are the same people that are being targeted for their money.
If someone is trying to sell you something, are you obligated to buy it if it isn’t to your satisfaction?
A Shatner return would only HELP this movie. There is no way it will hurt it. No one is going to say, “gosh, William Shatner is in this movie, so I’m NOT going to see it.” But the OPPOSITE? With THIS fan base? With THIS passion? THAT will affect the grosses. One can’t accurately predict how much. But it will affect the grosses, and far beyond the few hundred people that visit this site.
Again–Shatner’s absence from this movie has caused it mainstream attention.
Negative attention.
The producers don’t want that. I don’t believe they are sitting around cheering the thought that negative publicity is good.
They really need to give the man a call.
reply to # 431. roberto Orci – October 28, 2007
“429 maybe we’ll ask him to be in Transformers 2 to really make you happy.”
LOL That was your best retort yet!
#450
I did not say people who support Shatner are extemists. Although a few here are. As well, there are some here, yourself included who appear hell bent on wanting Shatner back. Yes, you have brought up some good points as to why Mr. Shatner should be in the movie. Some I agree with, some I don’t. I now care not to hear your reasons (again), I’ve read them too many times to count. You keep saying the same thing over and over. And this holds true for most of the BBK’ers here. And yes, you are entitled to your collective opinions, I just find them repetitive. If you were to say something new, I would try to understand your point.
As I have said in the past, I am indifferent on Shatner in the movie. My primary concern is a good story to reinvigorate the franchise. (With or without Shatner). If you compare how Mr. Shatner is reacting in public over this movie, and compare how Mr. Nimoy reacted over his (non) roll in Generations you can see a big difference.
I find Mr. Shatner’s behaviour regarding the movie in my opinion to be adolescent, and self righteous. He is losing whatever credibility (and likeability) he had towards this project (again in my opinion).
424 dtST
#450 Come on, you can’t really deny that there are some in the pro-Shatner camp who are extremists, just as there are in the anti-Shatner camp. Take a step back from this debate, and think about the folks who are declaring that this film will tank without Shatner.
The Undiscovered Country was very successful with Shatner, First Contact was very successful without him — If it wasn’t him, then what were the common denominators? I’ll tell you: good scripts, good directors. If those two things come first, STXI will be a great film.
Okay. I love the orginal series. I grew up watching it in reruns. I watched the films. I watched the TNG. All this crazy talk about Kirk and Spock and the original series being better than TNG or more popular in the mainstream is just plain wrong. And remember all those open-minded Star Trek fans were screaming the Captain can’t be bald! when the TNG first aired. They were also screaming Star Trek = the original crew. There is no other crew. And they were wrong. And you are wrong today.
The TNG is as well-known as the original series. In fact, I would argue that it helped cement Star Trek’s place in the world as a pop-culture phenomenon.
From Wikipedia:
Toronto’s SkyDome, which was renamed ‘Rogers Centre’ in 2005, played host to a massive CITY-TV-sponsored event for the TNG series finale; thousands of people packed the stadium to watch the final episode on the stadium’s Jumbotron. Five seventh-season episodes were nominated for nine Emmys, and the series as a whole was the first syndicated television series nomination for Outstanding Drama Series.”
Star Trek and its spinoffs have proved highly popular in television repeats, shown endlessly on TV stations in the US and worldwide. The Star Trek franchise is similarly prolific: arguably, only Star Wars has had as significant an influence as a science fiction and pop culture phenomenon.
According to Forbes magazine:
The five live-action Star Trek series have garnered 31 Emmys and 140 nominations, and at least nine specials have been produced. 31 Emmys and 140 nominations, people, and we’re not just talking about the original series.
The ten movies have cumulatively grossed $1.76 billion at the box office: the most successful movie was Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (1986) grossing $133 million worldwide ($235 million in 2005 terms); however, none have garnered Oscar wins despite a combined nine nominations for four films.
At least 120 video games contain “Star Trek” in their titles. About 70 million books are in print.
The franchise entails a merchandising business with a total lifetime gross of about $4 billion from companies including Playmates Toys, Hallmark, and Hasbro.
Resorts include rides and attractions at Paramount-owned amusement parks as well as Star Trek: The Experience at the Las Vegas Hilton. And I’d bet these resorts and amusement parks are more than just Original Series themed places.
The show’s cultural influence goes far beyond its longevity and profitability. An entire subculture grew up around the show and, anecdotally, there are indications that Star Trek has influenced many peoples’ lives. This is apparent from the reported testimonials of people, such as scientists and engineers, who claim that their professional and life choices were influenced by Star Trek. Whoopi Goldberg, harking of Nichols’ portrayal, was compelled to act and would later appear on TNG regularly. In addition, phrases like “Beam me up, Scotty”, “Resistance is futile” (from the iconic Borg,), and Treknobabble have entered vernacular, and “Trekkie” is the only fan label listed in the Oxford English Dictionary. Fictional devices in the show have also been claimed as inspirations for actual devices like mobile phones (communicator) and medical technology (hypospray).
So, there you have it. Resistance is Futile. TNG has earned it’s place along side the men and women of the original Enterprise crew as pop-culture icons that are known the world over.
Man, this is all too much. I have been a Trek fan since the early movies, Love Kirk and his crew more than the others. (with the exception of Pike’s Crew) As long as the story is meaningful, true to Trek, and you can have a good time watching it. Who gives a flying F*** if Bill is in it or not. If the movie keeps Star Trek alive, then I am for it.
—IDIC
445 – I am with you on that!
I’m gonna crack my knuckles and jump for joy, I got a clean bill of health from Doctor McCoy!
Re: 452
“As I have said in the past, I am indifferent on Shatner in the movie. My primary concern is a good story to reinvigorate the franchise. (With or without Shatner). If you compare how Mr. Shatner is reacting in public over this movie, and compare how Mr. Nimoy reacted over his (non) roll in Generations you can see a big difference.
I find Mr. Shatner’s behaviour regarding the movie in my opinion to be adolescent, and self righteous. He is losing whatever credibility (and likeability) he had towards this project (again in my opinion).”
I agree. Enough said.
Star Trek the Next Generation was nothing but a big talkfest….other than the Borg episodes all they did was talk, talk, talk, ….where the hell was the action?
There was seldom ever any dramatic tension in the scripts and Riker was as wooden as they come.
I did enjoy the NG movies somewhat, but you can have series. At least the original had strong stories for most of the episodes, but of course not all.
Shatner doesn’t need to be in the movie….his role won’t make or break the quality of the movie and those who don’t want to go because of it stay home and whimper…..but you should be hoping for a great revival and support it despite any Shatner decision.
#454 — There’s no question TNG and the subsequent spin-offs made a significant impact in cementing Star Trek’s place. What I think the expansion of the franchise from the TOS TV show and the movie did was to broaden the audience for Star Trek, so now you have a fan base that is much bigger than it would be if no spin-offs had been made. But what I think the question is, is what show has the greatest impact *outside* the fan base and in the world at large– and I still maintain that is TOS.
In other words, more abstractly, a franchise needs to grow and branch out in order to remain a vibrant “brand” in the public consciousness, but what will almost always be most iconicin the public’s mind is still the original incarnation.
It’s like, to make an analogy that’s a bit of a stretch, Coca Cola is always most famous for Coke Classic, but nobody can deny the brand as a whole is stronger for having Diet Coke, Cherry Coke, Lime Coke, etc.
Okay, now I feel slightly silly for comparing Star Trek to Coke, but I think my point is still valid.
^correction — “What I think the expansion of the franchise from the TOS TV show and the movies…”
454 – Yeah, the Borg are part of pop culture. But not “make it so”. As somebody who has only gotten into Star Trek in the past year, I can tell you for a fact that THAT is nowhere near pop culture status, nor is “engage”. And I was a kid when TNG was on. People know who Scotty is; they don’t know who Geordi LaForge is. They know who Dr. McCoy is; they have no clue who Dr. Crusher is. So I’m sorry, your arguments simply don’t hold water.
the film is going to bomb because shatners not in it for a small moment not bloody likely
#458 — Yeah, “Yesterday’s Enterprise” and “The Best of Both Worlds” were real talk-fests….
#429: ” as opposed [and including] the stated premise, and writing of its creative team, if it’s anything similar to what I was subjected to in Transformers”
You weren’t “subjected” to anything in “Transformers” – you were a voluntary viewer and, unless you live in a cave or are stupid, an informed one.
#434 “You idiot mega-fans would be the death of the movie if you got your way.”
If we wanted Trek dead, we’d just follow the business model laid out by Berman & co. Hey, it wasn’t us who decided to go back to a TOS setting, then cast Leonard Nimoy, then stopped just short of what many fans would consider the next logical step in that process.
#447 “It is the same few BBK extremists here that say the same thing over and over.”
What a tired statement. As if the same few anti-BBK extremists aren’t repeating themselves over and over? Several from that camp have posted in this thread 3 times as much as I have. Which, honestly, I do not understand. Why devote so much time and energy to being negative and arguing against something??
#462 “the film is going to bomb because shatners not in it for a small moment not bloody likely”
I must’ve missed where someone said that. I for one have never said the film’s success depends on Shatner; only that I prefer to have him in it. Yes, I absolutely think he would assist the film’s performance, but I hope it succeeds regardless. Remember, we’re 2 strikes at this point. One more bomb and we’re all out.
I don’t really want to engage in the TOS vs TNG debate, but suffice it to say that TNG, a good series, will never have the lasting impact of the original. After being off the air for 13 years and a string of forgettable features, it’s already begun fading.
sorry for post#462 when i woke up this morning i saw only 432 posts
i posted#433 before i went to bed the phrase “Not bloodly likely’
was more about my anger at reposting then anything to do with mr .shatner sorry if #462 upset anybody
my sincere apologies
Mr Orci, I’m not asking you to come out for one side of the argument or the other, but I’m a desperate man who needs to cling on to hope, so at this late hour I ask you if it is at all possible for you to make some statement, be it implicit or explicit, that will let me be able to believe that negotiations are still taking place behind the scenes and that the dream which I hold in my heart may still come true.
In short, please Mr Orci, make it possible for me to once again have hope that Neelix might be in this movie.
You win. I give up. Never mind the fact that as I walk the streets and ask people if they know who Picard is and they say: He’s that bald guy on that Star Track show right? And it was obvious that these people were not Trek fans.
Besides, regardless of who is “right” in this debate it does not negate the quality of either show.
#454
Thank you for such a wonderful overview regarding Star Trek’s influence on society…………..as Q would say, “oh, you’re good….you’re really good!”
This is a movie. I will only make a comment on it after I see it. As a movie lover , and a lover of sci-fi, I would like to think that once there are actual promotions, previews , reviews and such I will make a judgement call on whether I will watch it. I think that all this postering about who is in it or who is not is pointless. I will only make a call when I get to see the crew in action.When I see the story unfold I will know if the director made good decisions with HIS movie.
It’s funny how it’s all subjective……….for all you people who say, “as long as it’s a good movie”…..I personally disagree……..
I WANT IT TO BE A GREAT MOVIE!! IT SHOULD BE A FRIGGIN’ CLASSIC!!
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest…….I feel better now!
452 – Pizza
457 – Horta
You guys think that Shatner is acting adolescent, and self righteous just because he is disappointed that he isn’t in the movie, and yet you think that Nimoy wouldn’t express such displeasure.
Well, this is what Nimoy said about what he was offered in Phase II:
“I rejected the offer completely, because I was asked to appear in only two of every eleven episodes. In effect, it would have been a part-time job. I couldn’t believe it.”
Hmm, that “I couldn’t believe it” sounds familiar.
Then… Nimoy had his agent contact Paramount, and his agent said:
“Guys, I think you’re making a big mistake with this offer. Why would you offer my client such a limited opportunity?”
Hmm, “making a big mistake”? That kind of sounds familiar too.
Later, Nimoy states: “My participation in the series was being restricted, limited to a small number of appearances. That bothered me a great deal. That’s why I passed.”
So, to you guys who think that Nimoy reacts to disappointment so differently that Shatner, you are quite clearly mistaken.
Both have been in a situation in which they “couldn’t believe” that they were not more involved that they had hoped they would be. Both were either bothered or disappointed, and both stated their displeasure in public!
I’m glad to know now what movie NOT to bother go seeing…just like its prediccesor Nemesis…Star Trek will be without me again.
Pity….they had a real chance to do something special with even a 15 min cameo with the true star of Star Trek…William Shatner.
Now all they got is another turkey with another producer that nobody will bother to see…in big numbers…they have and are alienating the fan base and the population s a whole by NOT putting the Shat in it with the unknown, untalented cast of wannabees, and nobodys…except for the traitor to all of Star Trek now….Leonard Nimoy from Boston Massachusetts.
I think Mr. Orci has the sense to know that it’s just a few extremists that are saying the film needs Shatner to be any good. In fact I think it may just be one or two extremists and they’ve both posted many many times in this thread, so it just seems like more.
Star Trek is pretty cool to see what really in it but does not make any sequel any better. I prefer to keep the classic by Captain Kirk and Spock the way they were. The every decades 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s. All the pictures are completly different views in those years. I love the 80s pictures but after that these change dramatically when no legends continues. They change plots and thereafter. That does not going to keep the sequel to happen. The pictures of all the technologies are very cool. Things are getting better and better and the cost of making movies go sky high than in 70s. I rather to keep the classic for life. If the captain kirk in the picture if he is going to be an ambassodor or something. It will be better.
JRFraser
474 “it’s just a few extremists that are saying the film needs Shatner to be any good. In fact I think it may just be one or two extremists and they’ve both posted many many times in this thread, so it just seems like more.”
Really? In post # 163 you accused someone of making comments you “couldn’t take seriously”. That being the case, why even expend the energy to type the totally invalid comment above? After all the months and years and thousands of posts and fans, you would seriously have to have your brain removed by the Eymorgs to believe that “only 1 or 2 people” want to see Shatner back. If you have something substantial to add to the debate, I welcome it. But please don’t waste everyone’s time with ridiculousness like that.
As far as people posting “many many times” and inflating the thread, you are counting yourself too, I hope? Because I think you’ve posted at least a dozen times here.
#472 You guys think that Shatner is acting adolescent, and self righteous just because he is disappointed that he isn’t in the movie
No. He is adolescent and self righteous because at every opportunity including “Shatnervision” he whines.
#472 yet you think that Nimoy wouldn’t express such displeasure.
#472 Later, Nimoy states: “My participation in the series was being restricted, limited to a small number of appearances. That bothered me a great deal. That’s why I passed.”
#472 So, to you guys who think that Nimoy reacts to disappointment so differently that Shatner, you are quite clearly mistaken.
This is not a box of chocolates Forrest, there is a difference. Look closer!
As another famous W.S. once said:
“ The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool. ”
#467
;-)
#474
Mr Orci, please add my post 325 you had the cordiality to call “subtle” to that extreme group. Thank you.
#477
Interesting how you say there is a difference, but don’t say what it is.
# 477. I had to have a chuckle at your post. It’s exactly the sort of post (and poster) that Mr. Orci should be ignoring.
Sorry I meant to refer to post 476 in my previous post. Apologies to pizza.
431
Should I play harder to get?
411
hmm….
How about at the end of the movie we see Shatner (older Kirk) but do it like X- MEN did to make Patrick Stewart look younger they could make the older Kirk fit for duty or make him look like he did in Generations when we last saw him.
Maybe Q brings back Shatner?
I know it’s early but is Diamond Select Toys making the action figures for this movie or is Playmates Toys back in the action, Mattel or Hasbro ?
#480 “I had to have a chuckle at your post. It’s exactly the sort of post (and poster) that Mr. Orci should be ignoring.”
You also couldn’t refute a single point I made. Someone who definitively claims that “only 1 or 2″ people want Shatner … now that’s chuckle-worthy.
#483 Roberto Orci … Fascinating. :)
#472 I agree, based on the quotes you provided, that Nimoy acted egotistical and arrogant during the Phase II negotiations. Now Shatner is also acting egotistical and arrogant during this movie’s negotiations.
Further to some recent threads:
#472 Well, this is what Nimoy said about what he was offered in Phase II:
#472 “I rejected the offer completely, because I was asked to appear in only two of every eleven episodes. In effect, it would have been a part-time job. I couldn’t believe it.”
Weak attempt to compare Mr. Nimoy’s and Mr. Shatner’s personalities here. 472, you’ll have to do better, pretext creation failure.
In case anyone doesn’t know the rest of the story, Phase II was a proposed new Star Trek series, THAT WAS PULLED!!! A big reason why there was the first movie, studio execs wanted to recoup monies spent.
Then again, I could use the same argument others have used and say the reason it was pulled was because of the limited use of Mr. Nimoy, but I digress!
I cannot believe I’m being sucked into debate with a strawman tactic.
Shame on me. Time to move onto another thread.
424 dtST
484 – No, please, no Q. It’s way too much of a cop-out and would require way too much explanation. I think you’d have to devote a whole film to Q to make it work.
# 452- “Some I agree with, some I don’t. I now care not to hear your reasons (again), I’ve read them too many times to count. You keep saying the same thing over and over.”
Um. If you don’t like reading the arguments for Shatner being in the film, why do you choose to read a thread that is expressly about Shatner’s involvement in the film?. What exactly are you expecting people to talk about in a thread of this nature, Uhura’s first name? If the posts from previous threads have grown so repetitious to you, then you’re bound to know what to expect and should probably just refrain from reading comments on any story that is about Shatner and this movie.
It is not wise to omit William Shatner from this project! I mean please, JJ Abrams must be able to fit him in somewhere!
Q is gone…over…finito…
Q is gone…over…finito…
He ended his run in bad episode of Voyager. lol
I don’t necessarily agree with everything that WS said in the article, but I do like the term “recreation” he used for the new movie (if we can believe that there can be a new canvas on which to paint while respecting that which has come before). But I also agree that his involvement in the film would only enhance the final outcome. In order for ST to have a new alpha, its omega must remain hopeful. And if we are to have this brave, new timeline, we should hope the makers of the film keep this in mind. Of course, we are not privy to all the “goings-on” in the production aspect and nor should we. (I loved Orci’s comment about wanting to know when the surprise party was to take place). But if negotiations fail then I suggest the following for the film’s epilogue:
Older Spock (LN) returns to his home world. The changes in the alternate timeline have worked and appear to be holding. Everything is as it should be… with only slight differences. As he walks down the corridor to his home, he is logically satisfied with the conclusion to this most recent adventure. Now moving to a certain point, he notices the memorial to his old friend (seen at film’s beginning) is now missing.
He stops – puzzled at its disappearance. Only a bare wall remains.
A shadow suddenly appears on the wall next to him.
Spock turns.
A raised eyebrow.
Fade to Black.
494 – Very nice! I like it!
483
Mr. Orci, that’s a very curious “hmm…”.
Did dalek connect here?
Of course, you cannot give open comment on this or any other detail. We understand that.
However, I have faith that you will give us a great Trek with or without Shatner.
And regarding the comparisons between the Transformers and Trek fiims: this is like comparing apples and oranges. I would not want Trek to be in the same vein as Transformers. However, these are two different genres. Orci and Kurtzmann certainly understand this. I cannot project what Trek will look like based on seeing Transformers. However, if the writers can do with Trek in its context what they did with Transformers in its context, well, it should be a heck of a ride.
I have faith in the new stewards of Trek. Go boldly.
#472
There is a HUGE difference between Nimoy’s rejection of “Phase II” and Shatner’s displeasure at not being included in Trek XI: He didn’t allow his displeasure at being offered part-time work to be turned into a three-ring media circus.
The fact that he’s staying the hell out of this increasingly public BBK brouhaha speaks volumes about his professional character.
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
nearly at 500 posts
Please Mr Abrams – I’m begging you put The Shat in the movie!
PLEASE!
#490 “If the posts from previous threads have grown so repetitious to you, then you’re bound to know what to expect and should probably just refrain from reading”
Right on, jonboc. It consistently amazes me that some people have the nerve to complain about these threads when they’re right there in the middle of them, adding fuel to the fire. Pots calling kettles black.
Back to the subject; time for more speculation. In post #180, Robert Orci gave us some very useful information:
“Sure — Damon, Alex and I pitched him the basic version of the story we pitched J.J. and the studio, which we eventually went on to write.
Sadly, that’s probably all I can tell you until my Trek memoirs.”
I find that very interesting, as it provides the most definitive proof yet that the filmmakers did meet with Shatner and offer him SOMETHING. What went wrong after that we don’t know. Then, in #483, Orci made it a point to cryptically reply to dalek’s post #411, which read:
“do you think there’s a possibility whatever is happening they don’t want to inform Shatner, god bless him (and i love him), because he can’t keep his mouth shut I say that because if there’s one thing I know, Bill is very open with his fans.”
Orci’s response of, “hmm…. ” might be interpreted several ways. It could simply mean Orci thinks Bill is NOT being open with his fans. Or it could mean that dalek is onto something, and Shatner simply hasn’t been informed of the plans to include him yet!
I got excited and chose the latter interpretation. I hope it’s true. :) And once again, Orci, you are a cool dude for hanging out with us here. We do appreciate you. Can you indulge me and answer 1 question? Who did the story idea originate from? I’m a Damon Lindelof fan, so I’m just curious how much of a role he’s played in helping craft the story.
Is Shatner the problem ? You bet other wise he would have been written in the script at the start. If he ends up in the Star Trek movie it’s a small part at the end with just him and Nimoy. And it can be filmed at the very end like in march, they know all about Shatner so this script was well prepared for him or without him. This movie is about Spock and the young captain and his crew of the Entreprise.
All I can say is, thank god Roberto has a sense of humor as he reads these comments. Otherwise he’d probably run from this project as fast as he could.
On a sidenote, I noticed that the “Shatner not in new Trek’” story was #1 on the news headlines on my phone.
#499 I hope so too. I dont think Mr Orci is the sort of person who would ever imply Shatner was being dishonest to his fans, so we can rule that out.
What we do know:
a) Shatner cant keep his mouth shut :)
b) Mr Orci stated something along the lines of if they had their way no one would know anything about the story.
c) Mr Orci has also stated in so many words that this issue may not have finality before filming (he didnt state what aspect) he could very well mean Shatner and the fans may not get any final answer on something that has already been decided by then.
This of course doesnt mean they’ve decided to put him in and not to tell him with certainty yet. It could very well mean the opposite.
However, given the last few months the second they tell Shatner, the cat is out of the bag with absolutely certainty.
Could it be that Mr Shatner’s openess with his fans would interupt their timetable and PR Machine?
I haven’t given up hope. I am hoping we find out soon tho. It is getting intolerable waiting in hope lol
#473
Bless your heart.
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#500 “they know all about Shatner so this script was well prepared for him or without him.”
I dare say the same applies to Nimoy. There was never any guarantees that either Nimoy or Shatner would agree to do this film. They had their bases covered, I’d bet on it. It’s just a testament to how kick-ass this story must be, to lure Nimoy out of retirement.
Its CNN ticker tape now!
Hey #2 I agree, all of the TOS cast members that are alive should be in.
Even though Nimoy is in the film, I smell a reboot.
Also I really like thing Anthony wrote about this mess.
Yes it is a mess.
Shatner should be in JJ. It will make your reboot better.
Tell him Bob!
how daft is is that here we have THE original kirk and spock (shatner and Nimoy) alive and well and willing to be in this movie – but only one of them is!! it doesnt make any sense. come abrahams sort it out and get BOTH of these legends into your movie. it will all the more richer if they are in it and the more poorer if only one is present.
dont miss this golden opportunity two have them back in starfleet uniforms. it would be the perfect way to re launch the star trek franchise and the ‘new’ crew of the starship enterprise.
greg
United Kingdom
Please put Willian Shatner as Kirk in this movie. And no fart jokes in the movie, no fart jokes in the movie, no fart jokes in the movie, no fart jokes in the movie….
# 473 — A little heavy-handed there Mr. Open Minded Star Trek fan. I mean who decides who is a “true” Star Trek fan? You? How do you decide? What is the criteria for deciding?
I think you owe the new cast an apology for calling them untalented. You know the entire living cast of Trek has given the new cast their blessings. Even Shatner said Mr Pine looks like a good choice for Kirk on one of his Video Blogs. You also owe Nimoy a huge apology. Why is he a traitor? For being in this new film? Does that meant that Shatner was a traitor for being in Generations without Nimoy?
You are being silly. You also owe the entire creative staff–the writers, the director, everyone, a GIANT apology.
I really think this film is meant to create a new generation of Star Trek fans, rather than cater to an ever-aging fan base. Therefore, all decisions made should be in the best interest of the film and the franchise, rather than in the best interest of individuals. For kids born after the turn of the century, Chris Pine will be their Captain Kirk. He’s going to be their hero, just as William Shatner was to those of you who grew up in the 60’s. Think of this movie as an ice cream sundae. The story is the ice cream, and the actors are the toppings. William Shatner would be the cherry on top of the Star Trek sundae – a wonderfully sweet finishing touch, but not something absolutely necessary.
473 Unbelievable bovine excrement
481 Accepted.
497 Thank You!
499 More Blah Blah Blah
508 Amen!!
424 dtST
472 – I’d love to know where your Nimoy quotes come from. Why would the creator’s of Star trek Phase II create a NEW Vulcan character (Xon) to appear every week and then want Nimoy’s Spock to return for a few episodes in the whole season. Everything that I have ever read on this topic states that Nimoy declined to reprise his role and so they created the Xon character to replace him. They tried to convince him to at least appear in a few episodes and he said No.
From Wikipedia – Re – Phase II
The series was planned to have included William Shatner and DeForest Kelley reprising their roles as James T. Kirk and Leonard McCoy. Conspicuous by his absence was Leonard Nimoy, who declined to return due to a marketing issue over the Spock character and obligations to the play Equus, although early scripts included him. Nimoy turned down an offer to appear in two of every eleven episodes.
And, even if what you say is true–which I doubt. The difference still would be that Nimoy did not repeatedly go to the media and say “I can’t believe I’m not in the new Star Trek series. They are making a huge mistake.” Which is what Shatner is doing at every opportunity.
#511 says …. “The difference still would be that Nimoy did not repeatedly go to the media and say “I can’t believe I’m not in the new Star Trek series. They are making a huge mistake.” Which is what Shatner is doing at every opportunity. ”
What’s all this talk about Shatner haunting the doorsteps of every paper in town, begging for an interview?? He did a couple of Shatnervisions, addressing the issue that visitors to his website have been asking. Then AP approaches Shatner for comment. His answer is then picked up across the net and even overseas at the BBC.
Guess I missed the part about how Shatner is dogging these journalists, over and over, and forcing them to sensationalize his sad tale….oh wait…maybe it’s because it never happened.
Shatner sucks and so do his fans, Chris Pine is the new and improved Captain!
“Shatner: Not Putting Me In Is Not Wise”
The only thing I require is a really good Trek story. No one actor is above that simple fact.
Serve the story, not the demands made here or anywhere else.
I really get a kick out of the posts that warn JJ of a doomed movie if Shatner isn’t in it. Or, better yet, there will be “consequences”. That almost sounds like a Mafia hit is planned. Isn’t that subtle?
………………………………………………………………
Mr. Orci, I think it’s great you frequent the site and comment when you can, but it may not have been the best idea to tell us you were here. We have fans pleading to you, begging for their casting choices or story ideas and pushing for answers that you can’t give yet. IMO, it’s lead to a lot of unneeded posts and a few bad feelings.
514 – I could not agree with you more Silhouette.
I can’t wait to see the first teaser trailer for the new Star trek movie.
I still tend to think that Shatner will wind up in this somewhere.
What clearly will not happen at this point is:
A) The movie being rewritten or restructured to make Old Kirk the pivotally important character to the film that Old Spock apparently is;
B) The movie being rewritten or restructured such that resources are devoted to “undoing” Kirk’s death in “Star Trek: Generations.”
After all, the movie starts shooting in one week(!)
Doubtless Shatner can be slipped in there somewhere. Maybe he can do a voice-over or appear in a flashback or something.
#510 “More Blah Blah Blah”
Yes, that’s about the level of rhetoric I’d expect you’re capable of.
# 513 “Shatner sucks and so do his fans”
Ditto.
Thanks both of you for proving my point that it’s the antis who are adding zip to all this.
The Shat could be likened to a Black Hole
He draws your attention, body and soul
His weight causes gravity
To pull us into his insanity
All in search of a bigger role!
Shatner said he’s a busy man, so how could he fit in the time to do Star Trek? Come on Shatner show up for the ending it will be the best cameo with meaning.
@#490
Dear Mister (I assume) Magister,
Dare I say it, could it be play-time again?
I seem to recall some REALLY interesting messages of yours, not unlike this one, from another place a while ago.
Correction for 521:
@#494, not 490, Sorry!
” 431. roberto Orci –
maybe we’ll ask (William Shatner) to be in Transformers 2 to really make you happy.”
But Robert, that doesn’t even things out! Leonard Nimoy has already been in a Transformers movie – back in 1986!
500+ posts on a “No News” news item?! Someone really needs to “get a life”.
483
hmm…
That ‘hmm..” from Roberto Orci may speaks volumes.
Shatner may still be there yet.
Just a hypothetical to all you Shatner supporters out there………
What if it were confirmed to your satisfaction that it was indeed Shatner holding out for both a bigger role AND more money than Nimoy? Not one factor or the other, but say BOTH…..if these were, in theory, the actual demands of Shatner to the producers and he refused to budge on those terms…..if you were TPTB, what would you do?
Josh Lucas and Eric Bana were in The Hulk together Lucas was the bad guy.
Here is why you put Shatner in this film
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8fCgJXkcUQ
The man would bring the fun back to Star Trek.
Harry # 525
I would be quite upset with Shatner is that scenario played itself out. I would not be shocked if Shatner was asking for more $ + a bigger role.
That said I still want Shatner in the film.
A) I don’t know if this thread is still generating noise, and B) I don’t want to sound overly negative, but sometimes I get rather annoyed that some Trek fans are so pig-headed that even the new team have to endure the sort of badgering Berman and Braga had to endure. There’s no satisfying some people, especially the people you’re trying to satisfy, eh? I’d love to see Mr. Shatner in the film, but I don’t think it’s appropriate to be laying blame if he isn’t in it. Most of us have no clue as to what goes on behind closed doors, so most of these comments are pure speculation. Take a lesson from the Vulcans: “Vulcans never speculate.”
I’m seeing a kind of committment from the new team that we did not see with the previous owners, and I like what I’m seeing. I’m willing to give them a chance… why wouldn’t any other devout Trekkie be willing to give them a chance, when they certainly seem to be in-sync with what Trek-world has been criticizing, complaining about, and hoping for for years now.
Hey #525 – Harry
It depends, I would need to know some details.
Does Shatner even know how much Nimoy will be getting paid?
If Shatner is holding out for a big role and demanding that he gets paid more than Nimoy, then I would be disappointed and frustrated with him, no doubt.
If I were TPTB, I’d probably be pissed, but I would still be “actively perusing looking for a way to make a part that is worthy of him.” And, I would keep negotiating. A couple of million dollars or so could make a big difference at the box office.
Part of the problem here is that TPTB have committed to doing a TOS era movie, and they have also included Nimoy. So at this point to not include Shatner seems like a cruel tease to many fans.
On a slightly different note…
Some have said they won’t see it if Shatner isn’t in it.
Others have said that everyone here will see it regardless of Shatner.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I do think that everyone here will see the movie either way. But, there are different ways to see a movie these days. You can see it 12 times in the theater and then go on to buy the DVD. Or, you can go see it once and buy the DVD. Or maybe rent it. Then again, you can watch it at your buddy’s house when he rents it, or borrow the DVD from him a couple years down the road. You might watch it on TV in a few years. Of course, you could just download it and watch it on your computer.
Everyone here will see it. But the more it thrills and excites us, the more money it will make.
RED SOX WORLD 2007 WORLD CHAMPIONS!!!!
BBK
Ooop’s
You knew what I meant.
Dennis,
I agree…I also think Shatner will be in the film but I also do not agree this film should be all about “fixing” Generations. It’ll be interesting to see how they work around Generations.
#488 – pizza
YOU made the initial point that Shatner’s behaviour is adolescent, and self righteous because he has expressed his disappointment that he is not currently in the movie. You also said: “If you compare how Mr. Shatner is reacting in public over this movie, and compare how Mr. Nimoy reacted over his (non) roll in Generations you can see a big difference.”
I responded by pointing out that Nimoy has previously reacted in almost exactly the way that Shatner is reacting. Nimoy expressed very similar feelings with regard to Phase II.
You then said that there is a difference. When I asked you what the difference is, your response was to point out that Phase II “WAS PULLED!!!” You then accused me of constructing a straw man argument.
I don’t think you are making much sense here. The fact that PHASE II never made it to the small screen is quite irrelevant. We are talking about Shatner’s reaction and Nimoy’s reaction, and they were very very similar. If this movie (Star Trek XI) ends up getting cancelled, would it change the validity of Shatner’s disappointment? No. It would have no impact on how reasonable Shatner’s disappointment was. So you have still not sufficiently explained what relevant difference exists that makes Nimoy’s disappointment reasonable and Shatner’s unreasonable.
You also claim that I have constructed a straw man argument. Well, that isn’t much better than name-calling. If my argument is a poor one, please explain why. For the record, I don’t think it was a straw man at all. You asserted that Nimoy and Shatner react differently, and I merely pointed out that their reactions are not so different after all.
In fact, if anything was a straw man, it was your comparison between Nimoy’s status in Generations and Shatner’s status in Star Trek XI. To use your terms, whatever they mean, “This is not a box of chocolates Forrest, there is a difference. Look closer!” But unlike your post, I’ll tell you clearly what the difference is. Nimoy was offered a role in Generations. He was also offered the opportunity to DIRECT Generations. He passed on it because he thought his role was unimportant, he thought that the script needed work, and he was told that he would not have sufficient power to make the script changes he thought were necessary. The point here is that he was ASKED, and he was asked not just to be in it, but to play a crucial role in its creation (as the director). According to everything that I have heard and read, Shatner has not yet been offered such things. And for your initial comparison between Nimoy and Shatner to hold any water, you need to establish that Shatner has been offered a similarly important role in this movie’s creation.
Although I disagree with Michelle’s assertion that both Nimoy and Shatner are acting egotistical and arrogant, even she admits that their reactions deserve the same judgement.
#530 “If Shatner is holding out for a big role and demanding that he gets paid more than Nimoy, then I would be disappointed and frustrated with him, no doubt.”
I agree. Kirok Fan, glad to see you here, by the way. You’ve made a lot of good points since joining us. But, Harry, I think it’s unrealistic that Shatner would want MORE than Nimoy. That wouldn’t be the case. He might want as much as Nimoy, since their favored nations clause has been well known and in place since the sixties.
#530 “Everyone here will see it. But the more it thrills and excites us, the more money it will make.”
Agreed again. I saw Insurrection once, and was so offended by it I never watched it again. Needless to say, I also did not purchase it or Nemesis. By contrast, I saw TUC something like 6 times theatrically and couldn’t wait to buy it. Having Shatner in the film would mean repeat box office business and more DVD sales from quite a few of us fans. Not to mention the thousands of Americans who would read the news headlines & stories about Shatner’s return and become curious.
“I disagree with Michelle’s assertion that both Nimoy and Shatner are acting egotistical and arrogant”
Me too. At many points during the franchise’s history, both men have realized their worth and held out for it. This is nothing new. They’re well within their rights. Both actors are HUGE reasons we love Star Trek.
511 – Horta
The Nimoy quotes I have posted are from:
Star Trek: Movie Memories, by William Shatner with Chris Kreski, pages 63-64.
Horta, you stated: “And, even if what you say is true–which I doubt.”
Now that I have provided you with the source, do you believe it, or do you continue to doubt it?
If you haven’t read the book, I should point out that it isn’t just Shatner recollecting a bunch of stuff. It contains long passages of quotation from many of those who were involved in the creation of the first seven Trek movies. It’s an informative and interesting read.
If you want to invalidate something in Star Trek: Movie Memories, you’ll need a more credible source that Wikipedia, which is often informative, but also often flawed.
Again, Nimoy gives the following reason for his rejection of Phase II: “My participation in the series was being restricted, limited to a small number of appearances. That bothered me a great deal. That’s why I passed.” It is true that Nimoy did take issue with Paramount using his likeness on a wide variety of items, but in Star Trek: Movie Memories, Nimoy’s problem with Paramount seemed to be more of an impediment to his involvement in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. In fact, he refused to do STTMP until the lawsuit was settled.
Why did they create the Xon character in the first place? Well, according to Shatner, Xon was created AFTER Nimoy passed on the project. Shatner states: “With Leonard now officially out of the picture, Roddenberry and Livingstone quickly replaced the Spock character with a very young, very brilliant full-blooded science officer named Xon” (p. 64).
Why was Nimoy only asked to be in 2 out of every 11 episodes? One can only speculate, but Shatner gives some clues. Shatner (and Nimoy) explain that Nimoy had a strained relationship with Roddenberry for at least three reasons: 1) because Nimoy didn’t approve of Roddenberry showing the Trek bloopers at conventions, 2) because Roddenberry didn’t really support Nimoy in the Trek merchandise lawsuit, and 3) because Nimoy felt screwed by Roddenberry when Nimoy was excluded from The Questor Tapes. So I’m sure that had something to do with Nimoy’s limited offer. But also, there was the matter of money. Shatner states: “All of those things, combined with the fact that like me, Leonard, too, was now getting older and more expensive, resulted in the character of Spock being virtually eliminated from the planned series” (p. 63). So, it seems that saving money was one of the reasons. Incidentally, this is the same reason that Decker was originally created. Shatner was only signed for 11 episodes, and the thinking was that if he demanded too much money later on, they could just slide Decker in to replace him.
#534
Of course, Shatner’s disappointment is quite reasonable, given his role in Trekdom. Other posters are also correct in saying that he’s not seeking this publicity out, just responding to press inquiries. However, all he has to say to further inquiries is, “No comment. I’ve said all I have to say on the subject.” Much classier, n’est pas?
The difference is in how the two men reacted publicly to two entirely different situations.
Also, I’m not sure how you’re coming up with a comparison on Pizza’s part between Nimoy’s non-role in “Generations” and Shatner’s non-role in Trek XI. “Generations” wasn’t even mentioned in that post.
Just my 2 quatloos.
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#534
Forgot to add: :-) !
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
536
You wrote:
Why did they create the Xon character in the first place? Well, according to Shatner, Xon was created AFTER Nimoy passed on the project. Shatner states: “With Leonard now officially out of the picture, Roddenberry and Livingstone quickly replaced the Spock character with a very young, very brilliant full-blooded science officer named Xon” (p. 64).
Well, in my old post, I did write:
“Everything that I have ever read on this topic states that Nimoy declined to reprise his role and so they created the Xon character to replace him.”
And I wrote:
“Leonard Nimoy… declined to return due to a marketing issue over the Spock character and obligations to the play Equus, although early scripts included him. Nimoy turned down an offer to appear in two of every eleven episodes.”
And you wrote:
“It is true that Nimoy did take issue with Paramount using his likeness on a wide variety of items, but in Star Trek: Movie Memories, Nimoy’s problem with Paramount seemed to be more of an impediment to his involvement in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. In fact, he refused to do STTMP until the lawsuit was settled.”
So.. it looks like we’re kinda maybe talking about the same thing here. So take it easy. We’re on the same side here. We all want a great movie. We’re all excited for December 2008. Emotions are running high. Let’s not be governed by our passions, Bones.
I only used Wikipedia as a reference because I don’t have the books and articles handy. I don’t even know where they are since I’ve moved. Do I question the recollections of one William Shatner? I might. In fact, I kinda do after some of the trek stars came out and questioned Shatner’s recollections. Do I question the recollections of Gene Roddenberry? I might. No one is perfect. Except Nimoy. He’s pretty close to a perfect human being.
Also, is this just a rumor or truth: Didn’t Shatner and Nimoy have it in their contracts that they had to have the same deal so that their salaries were always the same? And since Nimoy directed two Trek films and co-wrote one of them, Shatner had to direct and write one. Thus, Star Trek V was born. And as far as Shatner being a bit of a whiner… have you heard him complain about who’s fault it is that V tanked? Instead of accepting that his idea was at fault and the execution of that idea was even worse. Anyway, I know you love the man. It’s nothing personal. Something disconnected for me and Shatner somewhere down the line. That’s all.
Good night and good luck.
# 537 – Vulcanista
To justify his original claim that Shatner is adolescent and self-righteous, Pizza said that we should compare how “Mr. Shatner is reacting in public over this movie, and compare how Mr. Nimoy reacted over his (non) roll in Generations you can see a big difference.”
So “Generations” WAS mentioned in Pizza’s EARLIER post.
I don’t think those two situations (Nimoy’s status in Generations and Shatner’s status in Star Trek XI) are very similar. Nimoy was offered the opportunity to contribute on a much greater scale than it seems Shatner has been offered in Star Trek XI (from what we currently know). So it’s sort of a false comparison to begin with. It is much more appropriate to compare what Nimoy was offered in Phase II and his subsequent public reaction with Shatner’s current situation with Star Trek XI. In both of these situations, the actors have been, to one degree or another, squeezed out and offered much less than they expected. And in both situations, they reacted in a similar way.
Which proves that Shatner’s behaviour is not so much worse than Nimoy’s, as Pizza implied.
As far as class goes. I don’t think I agree with you. If I were interviewing a celebrity, and asked him a question that he had already answered elsewhere, I would feel a bit put off and uncomfortable if he said “No comment. I’ve said all I have to say on the subject.” I don’t see how that is classy. To me it seems unfriendly. I’d rather he be more laid back and answer the question, even if it is repetitive.
It isn’t like he’s attacking those who are making the movie. He is just saying that he wants in, and he is disappointed that he isn’t in, and that in his opinion, the movie would do better if he is in it. If Shatner were really adolescent and self-righteous, he could be a lot more critical than he has been. So far, he seems pretty supportive – he says nice things about Pine, he hasn’t criticized JJ.
Obviously very few of us know exactly what is going on behind closed doors, but we do know that Nimoy has been signed to play a pivotal role, and Shatner wasn’t in the script at all (the draft Nimoy read). That being the case, I think he is showing a tremendous amount of class.
After all this, if I were JJ I would put Shatner in the film in a role that would be of his creative and financial satisfaction…..
BUT….
As retribution for all the unfair demands, and rude comments towards the JJ and crew, I would NOT undo Generations. It would be a bittersweet compromise on both Pro and Anti Shatner fans, Shatner would get his part in the film and his financial demands met, but Kirk would still be dead at the end of the film.
I can’t believe some of the behavior I’m seeing on these boards, and I thought we could acted with a little more class and sense than Star Wars Die Hards, I guess not. And that goes for Pro and Anti Shatner fans.
There is no reason in the world to call the man out on his weight, that’s just plain childish and pathetic. There is no doubting his contributions to Star Trek, he was the star of the show (Along with Nimoy), he deserves more respect than some non-TOS fans show him.
On the other hand, to beg and plead and go so far as to demand and threaten the creative team behind Trek 08 is the worst behavior I have seen out of a fan base since the “Craig is NOT Bond” fiasco. It is not Orci, Kurtzman or Abrams place to fix Berman, Braga, Moore and Shatner’s mistake. They are not obligated to put anyone from the previous Treks in the film at all (Be it TOS, TNG, DS9 or those other two), they only have to make the best Trek rebirth film they can, and that’s all the majority of us want.
Now, they were kind enough to even go so far as to try and tie this into the previous franchise, and gave us Nimoy as Spock and presumably a part for Shatner in there somewhere (As well as some TNG tidbits – thanks Roberto!) but even that is not enough for some of you. It’s “resurrection or nothing at all!” and that is not fair to JJ and crew. I can guarantee that needs of the many (people who want a great film before anything else) totally outweighs the needs of the few (those who want to use this film to selfishly BBK) and the one (Mr. Shatner.)
Mr. Orci, I personally apologize on behalf of the fans that insult you and the crew’s work, solely because they are upset about Mr. Shatner’s possible non involvement, they have no idea of your plans and their outspoken negativity could backfire on them.
I think modern Bill Shatner is very annoying compared to Trek era Shatner, the man is embarrassing now.
#541
- I can guarantee that needs of the many (people who want a great film before anything else) totally outweighs the needs of the few (those who want to use this film to selfishly BBK) and the one (Mr. Shatner.) –
Mr Orci, this statement has already been outweighed by means of canon.
# 509. Pragmaticus
I agree with you, but how wonderfully sweet a finishing touch it would be!
#543: “#541
- I can guarantee that needs of the many (people who want a great film before anything else) totally outweighs the needs of the few (those who want to use this film to selfishly BBK) and the one (Mr. Shatner.) –
Mr Orci, this statement has already been outweighed by means of canon.”
That’s really a thoroughly incoherent and unintelligible response, there.
57. jon1701 – October 26, 2007:
“Frank Welker didnt play Megatron in Transformers. Boy, was that a mistake… ”
Poor analogy; The general population does not know who Welker is at all, and never will, so his lack of participation in Transformers meant nothing–no potential for loss. Shatner and his character are internationally known as one of the “faces” of Star Trek–even to non-fans, which only adds strength to the argument that if Nimoy is inlvolved, certainly a likely “framework” story should include one of the two most important characters of the franchise, whch can only aid in launching this reboot.
You know what is sad?
1. The press won’t leave “the Shat” alone about this.
2. The Shat should have been in it since the get-go, thus ending the controversy but adding to the excitement.
3. People that can’t understand that having Nimoy but not Shat IS controversial. Think of it this way, IF Nimoy and Shat were in it, most people (not all) would be even more excited for this film. Leaving either one out (but especially Shatner) creates all of this controversy.
4. The leaving “the Shat” out of the movie is creating more buzz than anything else.
5. If you had left ALL of the originals out, there wouldn’t be all of this controversy, BUT, I bet there wouldn’t be this kind of tabloid AND mainstream hype for the film.
6. We still have no clue what the Enterprise is going to look like.
7. Some fans are being petty, bickering, and are small minded about this (on both sides).
8. and…the final sad fact that JJ and company ought to look at is: WHO always commands the most responses on this board at this site (and others)??? “The Shat”, that is who!!!! Maybe that should be a clue?
Ok, now my take on the whole thing:
I have been looking forward to this movie for quite some time. I’m thrilled that Nimoy is in it and I think “the Shat” should be, too. It’s kind of like a hot fudge sundae, but someone forgot to put hot fudge on it. Without both, it’s just a dish of ice cream. Will I go anyway, no matter who is/is not in it? You bet!!!!
If they didn’t want this mess, then they should have kept both (all) of the original actors out of it. Frankly, I think JJ & Co. want to have their cake and eat it too. They want at least one original to “bridge the gap” and haul in all the old Treksters, yet they want to appeal to the new would be fans. It’s kinda funny, the character of “Spock” has always seemed a bit more popular, yet the ACTOR who is most popular at the moment is Bill Shatner.
JJ & Co., my two cents is, why not serve us more than ice cream, give us a hot fudge Sunday and add “the Shat” to the movie. Who knows what he would cost and how big/small of a part he’d have, but let’s say you have to pay him $15 million (random number). Do you really think he won’t help bring in an additional $15 million in box office receipts? Or, think of it this way, Pirates of the Caribbean without Johnny Depp???? Some people don’t like him, but you KNOW what would happen to that franchise without him. Give this rebirth a great tribute or two and a fantastic launch, and Trek will live long and prosper. I know that is what you want and most Trek fans want.
End of rant…hailing frequencies closed!
#540 “It isn’t like he’s attacking those who are making the movie. He is just saying that he wants in, and he is disappointed that he isn’t in, and that in his opinion, the movie would do better if he is in it. If Shatner were really adolescent and self-righteous, he could be a lot more critical than he has been. So far, he seems pretty supportive – he says nice things about Pine, he hasn’t criticized JJ.”
Right again, KF! So what if his answers to the questions he is being asked repeatedly are a bit cheeky and brutally honest? In this overly-PC world, there are those who will be offended by ANYTHING, and too many people are getting too upset over nothing here. I agree that “no comment” would come off worse than what he is saying. And he’s not criticizing the movie; on the contrary, he’s made many comments over the last few months suggesting that he is excited by Abrams being in control.
A lot of people bashing Shatner now aren’t going to have much to say once he and Pine make their first convention appearance together, then are posing for pictures at the movie premiere come Christmas 2008.
#513, 542 … How old are you? Isn’t today a school day?
I dont have time to read all of the above messages, so forgive me if this has been said before.
If Shatner is not in the film, I see it as a good thing. It means that whether or not we liked Generations and the death of Kirk, the writers of this film are sticking to continuity and they refuse to invent an outlandish plot device to stick Shatner as Kirk into the movie.
As much as I would personally like to see him again as Kirk, I think this is for the best.
Yeah.How’s THAT for sticking to canon.
549. JC, 550. Jon (30) –
I’m as big a stickler for canon as anyone, and I’m all for obviating the Generations events, because I’d rather not have to regard that awful movie as canon.
That treatment worked well for Tasha Yar. I don’t see why it wouldn’t work out even better for Kirk, who was much more important and beloved character.
#280 — Well, most life-long Trek fans…do think that Nimoy without Shatner is unsettling…
WHY? I really don’t understand this…Nimoy was great in Galileo 7 and Tholian Web, both of which featured Nimoy without Shatner for a great deal of the episode. I thought he did a fine job in Unification II as well.
To say nothing of the fact that Vulcans have an average life expectancy over twice that of humans…it is unreasonable to expect that Kirk would live as long as Spock.
I am not trying to be rude, I just honestly don’t get it. If someone could explain why they find this unsettling, I would be interested in hearing it.
A couple of further notes:
1) I hate they killed Kirk off in Generations – and I blame Shatner as much for it as Berman. He said in his book he was okay with it; if he’d said “Sorry, I don’t want Kirk to die” (which the producers thought he might do) then they would have HAD to keep Kirk alive, because they NEEDED Shatner as Kirk in the movie for the the whole plot to work. He had the power to keep Kirk alive, and he blew it.
2) I can’t imagine what it’d be like on the set if Shatner now got added after his comments – he’d be arriving like the conquering hero and it would give him power on the set to make changes to anything he didn’t like. Maybe that’s why they don’t have him in the movie now.
I haven’t read a comment or mention of this fact so here goes-the writers strike is suppose to start Thursday, Nov.1 unless an aggreement is reached. How does that play in to all this stuff going on in the press right now. Just food for thought.
I have this theory that if Leonard had said No! then they would have gone with Bill. Seems logical.
I wish it could have been both of them.
#545, 541
I’ll try to make it more transparent for you.
1.
The quote itself was cited in STII and opposed to the reverse quote in STIII, after Kirk had saved Spock’s life. IMO, one of the most poignant and candid moments in all ST films. As the reverse quote is the synthesis at the end of the film marking a milestone regarding the relationship between Kirk and Spock as well as Spock’s comprehension of his own life, it is also the quote consistent with canon.
2.
None of us is in the position to give guarantees to Mr Orci, least of all on behalf of others. To start the sentence in question with this phrase makes this phrase a premise. As this premise is obviously wrong, the line of argument must be wrong, too.
3.
The modified quote in 541 implies that the group of people “who want a great film before anything else” and “those who want to use this film who selfishly BBK” are
a) proven to be a majority with regard to the first group
b) proven to be a minority with regard to the latter
c) proven to be mutually exclusive/proven to be not supportive of the film itself (again, with regard to the latter).
As nothing of the above has been proven and cannot be proven, those hints must be considered mere polemics.
Further @541, I think you owe Mr. Orci and the production team an apology for accusing them of not being able to create a film which will embrace good storytelling AND the return of WS as Kirk. A substitutional apology will not outweigh a hidden accusation of the very same addressee in your own post.
Shatner’s wrong, of course, on one count – the “story that they chose” *does* include the character that he played (past tense). It includes that character at a much younger age, and he will now be played by Chris Pine.
556 – You’re making less sense as you post here.
I think the posting to backhand slap Roberto Orci with your reposnse to his “distress” concern should merit an apology to him.
You and those that repeatedly post about bringing Shatner back have been venturing into the territory of being condescending to someone who is actually working (indeed, writing!) the movie. That also merits an apology.
I just don’t believe how badly some folks here speak to and address each other. Quite surprising for fans of a universe that demonstrated tolerance and appreciation of differences.
#557: “1.
The quote itself was cited in STII and opposed to the reverse quote in STIII, after Kirk had saved Spock’s life. IMO, one of the most poignant and candid moments in all ST films. As the reverse quote is the synthesis at the end of the film marking a milestone regarding the relationship between Kirk and Spock as well as Spock’s comprehension of his own life, it is also the quote consistent with canon.”
That’s a marvelous lot of gibberish in the context of your attempt to reply to #541’s point – which was that it’s far more important that the filmmakers create a good film with broad appeal than that they try to humor a relatively small group of people who are making demands based upon a rather obsessive sense of entitlement.
Your quibbling and playing with the paraphrased dialogue rather than trying to directly address the real point being made was a waste of everyone’s time.
Shatner it’s about Kirk’s past when he was very young your too old to play the part of young Kirk.
#559
You should have read on and would have noticed that I addressed every single point of 541 – but obviously I’ve expected too much of you.
Quoting and answering regardless of context the way you do it quite skilfully in your post is always the favored instrument of those who do not want to debate but to polemize.
No, you didn’t – not coherently or effectively.
The only “polemicizers” here are you and the other Shatner-holics; one has to care a great deal more than most of the rest of us do in order to deliver polemics.
You’re right that I’m not debating you – you offer nothing for debate other than insistence that you should have your way. You’ll either get what you want, or not. Either way, you don’t rise to the level of an interesting adversary in debate.
OK people….it is getting personal and flamey in here. There is a fresh new shatner story for you to all start over and try and be a bit more civil in please
next personal attack will get a one week ban
to simplify I am closing this one down
make comments in the latest thread on the Shat
http://trekmovie.com/2007/10/29/shatner-no-star-trek-cameo-for-me/#comments