James Cawley On The New Enterprise November 13, 2007
by James Cawley , Filed under: Editorial, Star Trek (2009 film) , trackbackThere have been some reports about comments made by Star Trek New Voyage’s Creator James Cawley regarding the new film and the Enterprise design he has seen. TrekMovie.com has invited Mr. Cawley to share his thoughts with the TrekMovie.com community as well as clarify some rumors. More below
————————————–
First off, I would like to start off by saying that I am surprised, and flattered that anyone would care anything about my opinion(s) at all. That being said I do not know who started the rumor that that the new Enterprise “has wings,” but I certainly did not. I have been asked by Anthony to try and describe what I saw, and all I will say is that the ship design seems to borrow heavily from “Contemporary Trek”. That is as much as I feel comfortable in sharing.
Much has been made about me not liking the design. So, let me explain why I don’t. I have been a fan for 35 years. I grew up with TOS. I am a TOS purist. I see Matt Jefferies designs as "Timeless" not dated. To me they are pure Sci-Fi, we do not have anything that looks like them at all. They were clean and streamlined, I love the candy colored buttons with multiple functions, I prefer the Fantasy look, as opposed to The LCD screens and Computer type buttons we have right here and now as featured on "Enterprise". I believe the Original design especially the exterior of The Enterprise is so iconic, that it should be used with only minor updating. But, Just because that is my opinion, does not mean that many more of you, won’t like the possible New Look. Star Trek is an amazing piece of our pop culture, and it’s fan’s are as devoted as they are diverse. I have the utmost respect for Mr. Abram’s and his team. and I wish them all well, in what is sure to be a VERY HARD TASK. I really would love to see The original designs on the big screen, with loving details, I have been waiting for that ever since the announcement of STMP back in 79′. I know that I am not the only one who feels that way.
I more than anyone want this film to succeed! I do not want Star Trek to fail, I hope it continues to speak to all fan’s new and old for many, many years to come. I am dying to see Leonard Nimoy as Mr. Spock once more, and disappointed that The Ultimate Captain, William Shatner so far, is not in the film. Sorry, that’s the purist thing speaking again! So let me close this all by saying I will be in the audience opening night, with my fingers crossed that J.J. and Co. will have achieved their goal, even if I don’t like the ship, or the costumes, or the color of anyone’s eyes.
The majority of fans said similar things to say about my New Voyages, but in the end many of them have come along for the ride. Gene Roddenberry was sure that the human race was full of "Optimism and Hope". So let’s all remain full of both, and actively look forward to what could be a fun ride. "Go get em’ J.J. "
-James Cawley
The Enterprise as seen in the upcoming STNV episode in "Blood and Fire"
James Cawley is the star and executive producer of Star Trek New Voyages.
As with all guest editorials, the opinions are those of the writer and not necessarily those of TrekMovie.com
Comments»
First? Thanks for that, James.
First?
I hope they pull it off.
Well said, James. I’ll be sitting beside you in the cinema hoping for great success here, as well.
CAWLEY IS KIRK!!
Awww man…. just leak the darn pictures and get the wars over with.
BTW- first?
How close is the new ship to the original? Will it be recognizable as the TOS Enterprise, or will we need another wild stretch of the imagination to believe that a refit could change the ship so much?
I’m up for whatever they throw at us. I can’t imagine it being drastically different from the original so time will tell.
Oh my, this thread is going to explode…
just finished watching in harms way again, my girlfriend screamed NO! at the tv when the planet killer came through the planet at the enterprise!!
class!!! quinto looks amazing, im convinced that some cloning is going on in hollywood!!!
Damn… when they said the Enterprise had “Wings”, I was hoping that meant that Paul McCartney was doing the soundtrack… ;)
James:
I was stoked with TMP as well. Remember the 1st time you saw the D7 battlecruisers as it opened? Holy Crap! They looked absolutely right, but the level of detail as they made their pass was uncanny, and still sticks in my mind (with the that music pulsing as well).
I would like to see JJ do THAT with the classic design. It IS possible to generate wonder and awe with these classic ships. Just try.
On BBS, A poster calling himself General Custer mentions “the wings.”
In context, it sure seems like he’s attributing it to James.
Over at the New Voyages website James Cawley who plays Kirk has answered threads that he has seen the ship and has confirmed that it has been redesigned and he doesn’t like it. He said he had friends in high places and they showed it to him when he was out there. It does not even resemble the one that we know of in the original series and was pissed they didn’t keep it true because Star Trek has stayed alive for 40+ years because we love what we see. It has wings. If there is any source to trust then it is Cawley since Paramount gave him permission to create New Voyages and he has spent 100s of thousands of dollars of his own on sets and costumes from the original series. I will try to get a link to the threads. I think he is right when he says you shouldnt change something that has worked for all these years such as the Original Series. Anyway are ou ready to see the ship with wings?
James, if this is not your view, then apologies. However, we’re all VERY hungry for input on this project, so I can’t quite blame myself or anyone to reacting to something that seems like news. I’d LOVE real news releases from the actual studio, but I guess that’s a lot to ask.
Thanks for that James… Well said.
Perhaps It’s not about the ship- It’s about the Human Adventure.
(as long as it’s believable Enterprise- I s’pose for the New Fans they didn’t want her to look TOO ’60’s old school)
I have been with NewVoyages since the beginning, and have enjoyed watching your production team and actors mature into that great group that made World Enough and Time.
Wow.
I look forward to Darren D’s further influence on your very good (and well lit!) take of the Big E- and wish you much success.
I also love the nods to Phase II that seem to be coming…
Oh, and PS-
Don’t forget about our friend Gary Seven- If you’re going to bring back Mudd you’ve got to find a Gary Seven & Roberta Lincoln.
can anyone tell me where he has seen the new enterprise design?
11. Agreed. I remember seeing TMP on opening night on the big screen and being impressed with the sense of 3D as the camera flew over the D7 with the stars flying behind it. It was that shot along with the first and final shots of the 1701A that were truly memorable for me.
Contemporary Trek–HMMMM -
WAAAAAAAAAYYYYY too much blue neon
WAAAAAAAAYYYYYY too many bright white overly large portholes that would make lovely targets to any enemy with a brain and a descent targeting system
Stupid phaser ring instead of individual banks.
A nursery / pre-school three decks away from the torpedo bay???
Looks like a flying shoe????
Am I on the right track????
This has been one huge rollercoaster for me. I will be very disappointed if the design of the original 1701 has been radically changed — I could not agree more with Mr. Cawley. Change for the sake of change NEVER WORKS!!!! NEVER HAS WORKED!!!! NEVER WILL WORK!!!!!! Abrams is treading on dangerous territory here — this is a 40+ year old franchise with a fan affinity that is second to none!!!! I only hope that Cawley’s friends at Paramount are playing a practical joke on him!!!!
This may be the next best thing we can ever have besides having a young Shatner, Nimoy, and the rest, back doing new shows and movies. I for one will be willing to suspend my disbelief at a new cast just to see Kirk and Spock together again. For the first time.
Contemporary Trek could mean only that it has all the details and layering that we have seen on the Enterprise E, Archer’s ship, etc., in order to bring it more in line with all the other Treks we have seen since, including ST:TMP.
From what I’ve read above (thank you for clarifying, James!), it is merely a case of being a purist seeing changes, where to his eyes and heart there should not need any.
Its merely aestetics. James feels his way, and someone else would like it if Enterprise were tweaked or changed a bit.
I don’t think there is any cause for great concern.
BTW, James, I remember reading your resume, and I portray Buddy Holly in shows, so we have a close lineage with doing tribute acts!
Pathetic that it has been redesigned when IT HAS BEEN PROVEN that the Classic TOS looks beautiful in CG. Let’s see the new red-headed step child.
I’m sure whoever let James see those designs did it with the strict confidence that it would be kept private. Cawley should have just kept his mouth shut. This is a non-issue really and he could have saved all of his opinions for when the ship is actually unveiled. This sort of public discussion about what is still a confidential item is not good press for Cawley or New Voyages.
You know, IF the ship does have wings, one way to redeem this movie is to use this movie to erase Generations.
Since it’s supposedly a time travel movie when Spock hopefully returns from his mission to save Kirk he finds he altered the future and Kirk is alive and survived his run in with Soran. With that I could overlook the wings, barely, if there are wings. We’ll see in a little over a year.
I don’t have a good feeling about this…..
I can accept moderate updating and was expecting the design to be to a certain extent, but I’m hearing terms like “radical change” being used on other forums to describe the new look.
Now with James Cawley describing it as looking “Contemporary Trek”, I’m remembering how disappointed I was with the look of the NX-01.
Please don’t mess too much with the 1701, or we’ll end up with another “Americanized Godzilla”
I won’t get up in arms if the Enterprise is a total redesign as suggested above, but I will be *very* disappointed. If it’s the Enterprise, I think it should look like the Enterprise. If it doesn’t, it just won’t work. Updating it is fine — I know we’re not going to see the ship exactly how it looked on TOS — but the design should still bare a resemblance to the classic ship.
Having said that, I am not jumping to conclusions. With all due respect to Mr. Cawley, I need to see the design myself before I believe it’s been redesigned. Perhaps the design he saw was a draft? Maybe it was another ship? Or maybe even a fake? It’s not likely, and again, no disrespect to Mr. Cawley or his ability to tell what’s what, but you just never know with these Hollywood types. All this time we (or at least I) have been led to believe that we will be able to tell it is the Enterprise, even though it will *not* be the TOS Enterprise. So I will reserve compliments and/or complaints until I see an actual design for myself.
But I really do hope they remain true enough to the original design that we can tell it is, indeed, the Enterprise. As Abrams himself said, you can’t screw this up. ;)
As I stated over at the NV forum, this franchise deserves more respect than this move- giving the E a “contemporary Trek” look, ala “Enterprise”- indicates.
I am a purst as well, and I did not think that this would happen, especially now that Berman is not involved.
I firmly believe now that James, through his efforts with NV, and the others with Classic Trek inspired series, are the ones who will continue to honor and respect the original vision, NOT these guys. Now I’m certain of it. And I don’t CARE about the script. That’s right! It can be Shakespeare, but if they stylistically trash what’s been established- for over FORTY YEARS- it’s an insult, plain and simple. There is MORE to it this time around.
-Donn aka/ QuasiOdo
And if it IS a reboot, they should have the balls to just SAY SO!!
Maybe then I and others will consider respecting the changes.
I had no idea they were actually changing the design of the Enterprise as well as the uniforms. I can’t believe Leonard Nimoy would be a part of this disgrace! The Enterprise is such an iconic image, as well as the uni’s. I hope this is just an earlier version of the NCC-1701 we haven’t seen before and not a whole new one just because. If it is, I will cease being a lifelong Star Trek fan and boycott the movie.
They didn’t need to overhaul it to this extent. The Constitution-class ship looked amazing in CG when compared to an NX-01 class ship.
Mr. Cawley: Despite my goofy name this is a real person here. Thanks for your unique insight and devotion to Star Trek in your version as despite questionable actor portrayals yours as Kirk is really good and deeply appreciated. I’d love to see you as Kirk in the new movie or to see your show have the budget required and needed to properly address the casting issue because your show does
have excellent highlights and shouldn’t be overlooked. I LOVED the show with Sulu - it shined!
Please continue your vision of the show. Have you ever considered having first time professional actors on your show just to add the needed credence in that area? You’re # 1 never forget that. Ok?
WHY GOD WHY??!?!?!?!? can they not just make moderate changes and an earlier version.????? WHY????????
#20 RaveOnEd — I agree. Mr. Cawley is a purist, after all, so let’s just wait until we see the design for ourselves before, um… panicking. ;-)
Listen, J.J., Don’t you DARE change the Enterprises Original design! The fans will be mortified to say the least. I know I will. That ships iconic symbol is a part of history- thats why the original fourteen foot model sits on exhibit at the Smithsonian Institute. We trust in you. Don’t blow it.
You might as well tell me that Santa wears a blue suit.
Errrr
I for one will not be able to accept this movie even with Leonard Nimoy as spock, if the Enterprise does not look like itself as much as Quinto looks like Nimoy!
It will just not feel right and I wont be anything but angry and upset while watching the movie. It may very well be a fault with me, but I do believe that will be my reaction. A slight modification and update, I could accept but anything to far off and it will not be Star Trek to me. Just another footnote in Trek History like the TV series Enterprise is sure to be.
He could also have seen the ship in an earlier version… we know the trailer has it under cosntruction! That said, I don’t mind more hull detail, ala ST:TMP, at all.
Wow….this is good publicity for New Voyage’s…..
My guess? It’ll be the same *amount* of change as from TOS to TMP but *different* changes. Lots more detailing on the hull, and some big changes to some things like the nacelles and the dish, with lots of minor changes to things like the bridge, the impulse engines..
I can see a purist being upset with that, but I think it will become invisible to most people within ten minutes of screen time. I really can’t believe they’d do anything more drastic than that. I can’t imagine it looking even as different as, say, the Enterprise-E. That’d be crazy, but I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
So long as the Enterprise has two nacelles and a saucer section, I really don’t mind if they update the ship. I thought the Motion Picture did a fantastic job of staying faithful to the Original Design. However, if the new designers had depended upon even that design for Abram’s new Enterprise, fans like Crawley would still be crying foul.
With a 150 million dollar budget and the evolution of special effects, I would expect the level of detail on the models to increase substantially. It will be interesting to see how the ships move as well. Changes in our understanding of technology since the 1960s should certainly be incorporated. Maybe they are looking to update some of the science of Star Trek in this film in order to improve its believability. Whatever the case, I’ll withhold judgment until I see the ship myself.
Isn’t the short teaser rumored to feature the new Enterprise? If so, can’t wait to see it.
#35
How true it is…
I’m getting ugly….
“It has wings” is a common phrase meaning that something has taken flight, begun its journey, etc. For instance, if I recall right, Buzz Aldrin said that the Eagle had wings when it separated from Columbia on its way down to the lunar surface.
I imagine that is the source of the misunderstanding.
The constitution that appeared in a mirror darkly loooked fantastic and with subtle but not sweeping updates worked well- I’d love a faithful big screen recreation. But I can accept and understand an updated look- I will be majorly disappointed if the configuration and general shape has changed though, ugh.
The remastered TOS episodes has beautifully shown how good the Enterprise can look with modern special effects. No more “tweaking” to the design is necessary.
If the LCD-screen had existed back in the 60s, I think Gene Roddenberry would’ve included some on the bridge of the USS Enterprise.
Back then there were candy-buttons, today there are touch-screens.
Vulcan logic clearly states that there should be LCDs on the new Enterprise.
End of line.
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Gene Roddenberyy, in his novelization of TMP, when he describes Kirk’s flyover, allude to the classic design (Saucer, neck, nacelles), as something distinctly female? Perhaps in Kirk’s brain only? My copy is long since destroyed, but I remember it.
I mean, what are the coolest ships in 2007 that the kids will buy? Transformers? Star Wars ships were either cities in space or fighters, or pieces of crap held together with duct tape and love. The BSG ship (I don’t watch) was a relic with telephones on board.
JJ has a chance to introduce the classic “female” design to an unsuspecting public, as anything else will be a guess based on focus groups, which are usually wrong
When James said “contemporary”, I heard one word: Akiraprise. *shudders*
Really, I have very much been hoping for a “classic” Enterprise–and I still am. That fracking red railing and the original blinky-blinkies is so crucial to the old bridge, and as for the exterior… well, it’s the Enterprise. The Original. The Big E. Don’t go messin’ with it. And get the d*mn spinny lights in the nacelles right, for Q’s sake!
That said, it’s far from a deal-breaker for me. Looking forward to seeing what it looks like.
I love the original Enterprise, however I also really liked the changes/updates they made for the original crew movies. I was never a big fan of Picard’s Enterprise D… sure the saucer separation was interesting but the ship just seemed too huge and curvy for my tastes. I liked the final Enterprise E design from the last couple movies, they had an updated back to basics look. I think what they did for the Enterprise series with the NX01 was a pretty cool look as well… I’m talking ships here not the insides of the ships, wasn’t a big fan of the bridge of the NX01. I did like how they made the warp engines look a little more like engines, while still keeping a very similar design.
Point is if they update the look I hope they stick to what made the original ship special to begin with… the hull, the engines, the saucer attached to a riser off the hull. As long as they stay within that design spec and update the ship to have more detail and more realistic, science/technology based ship parts then I’ll be happy with the look. It seems silly to think they would move completely away from the original basic design of the ships of the original series era…
If wings can work for MaxiPad, they can work for the Enterprise too!
Sorry if this has been addressed already as I skimmed through the comments, and this is meant as NO disrespect to Mr. Cawley.. but I wasn’t even really aware of who he was. So how is it that he wound up seeing the designs?
ummmm okk
Maybe what he saw was the Enterprise-F? :-) (I mean, come on, part of the movie *must* be taking place somewhere around Nemesis or post-Nemesis, so we’ll probably get to see something. Would be nice to have a little connection there a la Nimoy/Quinto. The old and the new. Or hell, maybe it was just the Titan he saw afterall…)
Some time ago, it was mentioned that Eaves was brought back to the team, but not as the head designer. Maybe the new guys take care of the 1701 while he’s back to do some 24th century stuff to stay consistent with his previous work on Trek? Keeping the big E a secret as long as possible would be my top priority as a producer here.
Or maybe someone just showed him a picture of Gabe Koerner’s (cool but completely Trek-Xi-unrelated) E-redesign?
I think the important thing is not necessarily the outward appearance of the ship, but the sense of how it operates and maneuvers. TOS Enterprise felt like a naval ship: it had momentum, it couldn’t turn on a dime, there was a sense of pitch and roll, commands used nautical and naval terminology. “Modern” Star Trek ships seem more like fighter jets. This seems to be a side effect of improving special effects technology (and possibly of the fact that there are fewer military veterans among the cast and crew).
I think as long as the viewer feels like he is watching people interact with a massive, powerful, complex, and dangerous machine, the ship design is secondary. The details don’t really matter, except as tools to encourage the viewer to overlay his preexisting notions of a ship at sea onto a new medium.
It’s supposed to be an earlier Enterprise that’s the problem. They need to De-evolve the ship ever so slightly.
this was a problem with “Enterprise Enterprise” in that it looked more advanced than the TOS. Looked great CG-wise but just a little out of time……
…that was until a Classic TOS ship OBLITERATED an NX in In a Mirror Darkly. Then I thought okay, Kirk’s time was streamline but could still kick serious ass!
I think the important thing is not necessarily the outward appearance of the ship, but the sense of how it operates and maneuvers.
Tell that to the 1701 that rests at the Smithsonian
What about a general description istead of a “no liking” commen? and “it has wings” is meaningless… those could be the pylons, nacelles or some weird protuberances coming out of the saucer!
So… let’s put this a simple way:
Or we get a somwhat “decent” description of the ship of this is a NO NO
Defiant looked great in that ep., in CG, right next to mirror NX-01. Imagined that redesigned for the massive screen. F-ing wonderful.
49- Alex
I really like Gabe’s design..it seems like a perfect update to bridge into the new movie designs…
Wow. The stupidity level here is really off the charts. “I can’t believe Leonard Nimoy would be a part of this disgrace!” Seriously, do you actually read what you write?
(1) You haven’t seen the new design yet. Stop calling it a disgrace.
(2) Do you think Nimoy saw the new ship before he signed on? Probably not.
(3) Fans need to get over themselves. If all of the hard-core ST fans jumped in a lake, it would barely be a blip on the opening day box office.
(4) Isn’t this a dumb thing to get worked up about? What if you had two choices: (A) a medicore or poor run-of-the-mill story with a perfectly-accurate TOS-era ship, or (B) a terrific script, awesome story with a re-designed ship? If you choose (A) instead of (B), well, then I can’t help you, but I think your priorities are horribly screwed up.
Man, I really like the New Voyages and what my main geezah J.C.™ brings to the table with them. I remember coming across them I think a couple of years ago, maybe 3… what excitement to see what the fan base had put together in the waning days of the franchise.
Call me a sentimentalist but I think that I’m about 100% on the same page with Cawley.
Why did they put wings on the Enterprise? What’s that all about?
This reminds me of a time when I was about 6, maybe 7 years old. My buddies and me used to play Star Trek out in the fields, I, of course always being Kirk. I had an introspective brooder of a friend who always wanted to be Spock. I could never understand that. I remember thinking at the time that I was amazed that it was so easy to be the Captain. Because I would always go, “Ok, I get to be Kirk” and this other dude would go, “Well, I want to be Spock” and then the other dudes were happy being Scotty, Chekov, a redshirt… whoever.
I think I understand it better now some 30 odd years later. Me main geezah, J.C.™, he’s been teaching me much repsectah. It’s like I had this girlfriend once… great gal, all that… but she wanted to wear the pants in the deal. She wanted to be the boss. And I knew right away that it would not work out, because hitch is old skewl and the tribe cannot have two chiefs.
Remember on Guns N Roses at the beginning when that old dude says, :some men just cain’t be reached, and that’s the way he wants it”. I think it was Use Your Illusion 2. Great album.
BEST!!
=h=
No — just NO! No Stealth. Nothing rocket-like. NO BSG turrets. NO blasted transformations.No harrier-like liftoffs OR landings. And Lord forgive you, J.J. if there are any Goddamn wicked looking *WINGS* on my favorite ship. Of all the hare-brained shenanigans…whats next? SHUTTLETANKS!?!? My God, man KEEP TREK ALIVE!
I’m still holding out for the original design, only with spinning chrome rims on the naecelles and “NCC-1701″ all lit up in blinking purple neon lights, gun racks in the shuttle bay, and a great big ole Confederate flag over the bridge dome.
Oh, yeah, and flames, big honking orange, yellow, and red flames all the way down the sides!
(Sorry. Just thought this thread needed a little silliness at 4:16 p.m. EST) ;-D
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#52:”Tell that to the 1701 that rests at the Smithsonian”
And let us know what happens. The last time I started talking to one of the dinosaur exhibits in the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History I was detained by security and sent for a psych evaluation.
And why is everyone going on with the “wings” thing? James specifically said that the new design doesn’t have wings.
The more I hear and read, the less I’m liking it. I echo Mr. Cawley’s comments but unlike him will not be in the audience if the raft of changes continues. First the “nod to the ’60’s” re: the unis, now this bastardized sounding Enterprise. In the words of Scotty, if it’s not “NCC-One-Seven-Oh-One. No bloody A, B, C, or, D” I’ll stay home and watch the remasters on my iPod thank you very much.
While JJ&Co. didn’t start the fiasco that became the “MI” series, I am growing more fearful by the day that it is starting to sound like he’s got the same thing planned here. The only the the “MI” film series had in common with its TV progenitor was the name and the theme music. The concept of teamwork and planning that made the TV show so cool went into the trash can. I only hope that doesn’t happen here…
Nice to see Mr. Cawley’s post with good punctuation. (See the TrekBBS post for comparison.)
All humor aside, I remember when ST:TMP arrived in 1979. I was floored when the CBS Evening News showcased the flyby sequence… and showed a VERY different looking U.S.S. Enterprise. Thanks to the work of Andrew Probert, Mike Minor and others, this TOS ship had changed radically. Part of me loved it, another part of me despised it. After all, what was wrong with the original design?
Ultimately, I LOVED the upgraded NCC-1701. Three Art Asylum models of the NCC-1701 (TOS TV, TMP and TWOK) sit side-by-side, all loved and admired for their designs.
When the ship is unveiled in 2008, I hope to have a similar reaction.
Like you, Mr. Cawley, I love the original series. TOS is–and will remain–my favorite. I’m open to something new. And if you want the TOS NCC-1701 on the big screen, I’m sure you’ll see it tonight @ the “Menagerie” screenings across the globe. I’m looking forward to seeing the TOS Enterprise fly across the big screen. Enjoy… because it’s the last time we’ll see it there.
This whole redesign talk makes no sense to me. The new movie’s composer has confirmed he is working in the original Alexander Courage theme music into the soundtrack, so then why go and change the original Enterprise? Why would CBS go through such painful processes of accurately show the original Enterprise in CG for the Remastered episodes just to throw everything out the window for the new movie?Totally illogical. More likely Cawley saw a future Enterprise since part of the movie takes place post-TNG (Spock is still on Romulus working on Re-unification).
You know, the fact that the first 1701 is in the Smithsonian is actually pretty darn important.
I’ve seen other Trek ships in Vegas, but the one in DC, with its adventures, actually inspired NASA to name a prototype shuttle after it., and has been viewed by millions and millions.
She is untouchable as far as her outside is concerned, as big changes would render that long-hanging display useless to the new younger ‘base’ who only know the ‘new’ design.
Even the April Fools design is acceptable compared to what I am worried about seeing
When “contemporary Trek’ was mention,I imagined a Enterprise with more smoother lines. And less straight and angular ones as the original.
But the Dennis Bailey re-design is perfect for old fans and new ones.
(hope my post doesn’t get erased)
Star Trek’s production history is punctuated with second chances - the second original pilot, the 2nd motion picture, the next generation itself, even the odd numbered movies had second chances - i never expected the curse to be broken, nor do i subscribe to odd number theory, anyway…
for me this is another in a long line of second chances, i sense it will work, and yes there will be a few naysayers, BUT
i dearly hope the ship looks like the ship…
1701 is iconic - it is equal to Abbey Road, Marylin Monroe and the Empire State Building.
Simply lighting it correctly would do the trick - but it needs to be sufficiently detailed for a 21st century eye and justifiably & plausibly enhanced for a new audience.
but no more than that…
this is the only second chance I’m prepared to give this franchise
the ship is an icon - please be careful JJ
James Cawley is clearly a purist on the design and really so am I. I love the TOS enterprise. As a matter of storytelling, the refit makes perfect sense for the movies and that design is also pretty stunning, so that all works.
If you’re to view the new movie as a prequel however, the design should be reasonably close to the original. The effect of the ship will obviously be more detailed and dynamic than anything we saw in classic trek, but the design doesn’t need much improving on…. I think the look of the Enterprise was pretty timeless.
I’m sooooooo curious to see what they come up with. Off to Menagerie in a few hours, that’ll be a fun little precursor for seeing classic E on a big screen.
Doug L.
Maybe it is powered by Red Bull, rather than matter/antimatter.
/Red Bull gives you…. oh, never mind.
@57 Right on! Face it - this is JJs vision so things are going to change. The ship, props, uniforms etc are window dressing. What matters is if whether or not JJ can recapture the sense of fun and adventure that the original era had. Make a movie that does that, tells a good story, and captures the essence of the original cast in a contemporary way.
That is what the focus should be on.
Firstly I wanted to thank James for offering up his editorial and thoughts.
It is all going to be a matter of perspective with regards to the production design of the interior and exterior of the Enterprise. James is a self described ‘purist’ and so he has his reaction based on the view that there should be essentially no change. Some are on the exact opposite and want radical change. Personally I am in the middle and would prefer ’some’ change. Then there is the general movie audience who really don’t think in terms of ‘change’ at all. Bottom line is that the more specific you envision the new movie to be, the more likely you are to have difficulty accepting the film…even if it is the best movie ever made. Abrams and his team have committed to respecting the canon, but have also asked people to keep an open mind.
I for one am keeping my mind open
I prefer the Motion Picture enterprise over the TV one without a second’s hesitation. I would also like to see a nice bridge, with some kind of Okudagrams, and not toothpaste tops and non-senscicle blinking lights. Why restrict ourselves to a 60’s TV Show budget design,, you all know Rodenberry would have prefered it to be the best it could be with a modern budget, just look at the bridge from Star Trek 6, and you can see his “look” was formed by budget.
#64: The theme has nothing to do with the ship. CBS’s recreation of the effects for Remastered Trek has nothing to do with the movie. Your logic is tortured and wrong.
#65: The original ship didn’t inspire NASA to do anything. President Ford wanted the prototype shuttle named Enterprise for publicity purposes.
To the rest who plan to stay home if the ship changes: enjoy your time at home with no new Trek. Those of us who aren’t Luddites will be at the new film to see if it’s any good.
He didn’t say, “It has wings”. He said, “IT’S A LION!”
ho, ho, ho! Okay, now that I have that out of my system, I have to ask this question for the purists, including Mr. Cawley: Where do you draw the line? I look at the image above from NV (excellent btw!), but one could argue that it is not what was seen on TV. The artist has taken some liberties with Jefferies’ original design, right? Enhanced the surface, added some detail that wasn’t there or visible before, changed a few colors here and there. Don’t get me wrong, it really works, IMHO. But someone demanding a deeper level of purity and canonicity could argue with the choices that were made. Heck, I’ve seen fans unable to agree on what COLOR the hull is!
So if I were to complain that the NV rendering goes beyond “minor changes”, how would you defend it? Or is this NV rendering (and those like it) The Line? Can it be pushed a little further? What if they put spikes on bussard collectors? What if they don’t!!? What is the hull is smooth instead of plated? Stainless steel instead of grey? What if the pylons look more “refit”? What if it looks like something that could evolve into the above, the same way the TOS evolved into the TMP version?
Just rhetorical questions. I’m not concerned because whatever they do, the film will not have the ability to erase my memories, or change the models in my den. And in the end, there’s no way we’d all agree 100% no matter what they choose to do, right?
Like Mr. Cawley, I also would like to see Mr. Shatner, the 18th greatest pop icon of all, back in this movie.
Shatner, not Kirk, comes in at #18 in the latest “list” from TV Land.
18. WILLIAM SHATNER
There are many adjectives one could use to describe James Tiberius Kirk, interstellar man of action. Brave. Suave. Empathetic. But the one that best exemplifies the captain of the Enterprise is confident. Shatner was all swagger, like a blend of James Bond and young Elvis. (It’s a blend he now uses to an exaggerated — and Emmy-winning — degree on Boston Legal.) Whether he was negotiating with mad geniuses, troubling with Tribbles, or macking on a bevy of space hotties, we bought Star Trek because Shatner sold it to us.
I have to say I agree with much of Cawley’s take on design. I don’t want plasma screens or calculator buttons on this Enterprise either. I want displays and controls created FOR this ship…something unique..never seen before..that’s where TOS suceeded. They didn’t buy their bridge at Best Buy…it was created. And it’s that very uniqueness that stands the test of time.
But we will see changes..it’s inevitable. And because of the new timeline, I’m cool with it.
#42 “Back then there were candy-buttons, today there are touch-screens.”
Ever shut your eyes and try to operate the flat smooth controls on a microwave oven? Shut your eyes and see how well you operate that I-phone interface.
Tactile functionality is what you need on a starship bridge, not boring “must see it to operate it” touch panels.
I really wish our message board pal, Herr Orci would join in….
#71 “I for one am keeping my mind open ”
Well said.
#73 - it’s not about changes - it’s about internal logic and the willing suspension of disbelief required to make fiction work. Don’t ask me to believe the story is set BEFORE events in TOS then give me a ship that is clearly an anachronism or characters in clothing that more appropriately “live” 200 years later. IMHO, the reason TMP Enterprise worked was because the events in TMP happened AFTER TOS. This is also the reason I could never swallow “Enterprise” - although the stories were set before TOS, the ship looked and the crew acted like it came out of a much later era. The incongruity was distracting to the point of making it unwatchable.
It was just 24 hours ago I was so excited about this movie — I just pray that Mr. Cawley (as I stated before ) is the victim of a practical joke. If Mr. Abrams intends this to be his version of Battlestar Galactica — this movie will be a FAILURE!!!!
IT DOES NOT MATTER.
Let them have their little redesigned ship.
Every other gifted amateur can make professional-looking CGI these days. All we need Abrams for is *story, actors and sets*.
So, let them make the movie the way they want… when it is done, we’ll take it and remake the CGI to our liking. They will bring the money, actors and sets, we will bring the Enterprise. :-)
If the ship is changed too much, it will be a distraction from the story. I have to wonder if this “wings” rumor has anything to do with some pics that floated around the net several months ago that show the Enterprise with what could almost be describe as wings along the engineering hull. From just near the deflector dish to about half way back tapering closer to the hull the further back they went were these wide kinda square platform. I am not describing it very well, but if you have ever seen the models of the original Enterprise EMT put out, there are the small structures near the deflector dish. In these images those had been widened and followed along the hull nearly to the hanger deck. Someone was trying to sell them as the redesigned Enterprise.
Ok, didn’t read /all/ the comments, but I was wondering why they don’t use the retouched Enterprise from the new HD DVDs… its looks great and is still true to TOS and it’s fans…
I’m a 2nd gen. trekkie who’s only recently fallen in love with TOS… I’d like to see them keep this movie in line with canon. I mean, the trekkies are the ones who are going to decide whether this succeeds or flops… there’s a certain stigma attached to ST for my generation (I’m 15) and I’m perfectly aware that the special effects will have to be pretty flippin’ fantastic if they want to draw in any sort of audience from the younger bracket, but they’ve already filled the movie with the other necessary elements needed to make a movie succeed with teens… filled it with hot guys (and girls), got actors from our favorite shows (Heroes and House, anyone?), and are supposed to have a great plot. So, could they please just keep the 1701 in it’s original glory? Plus, I’d love to see the costumes in their 60’s primary glare…
In 2 1/2 hours, those of us on the east coast can see the original E on the big screen.
I’m glad the “wings” rumor is spurious. But, I would like more description about the new, old E than “blecch.”
Oh and…
Shout out to Vulcanista!! Do you have wings?
The Ships of Trek should be streamlined and smooth. it’s their signature look that sets the Trek universe (24th century excluded) apart from it’s counterparts. For crying out loud isnt there ENOUGH detailed ships that look like every other ship that has been designed since Star Wars came down the pike??
Let Star Trek keep its identity, don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I do not believe for one moment that this design has wings in the literal sense.
Also after everything that JJ and his team have been reported to have said about respecting canon, they and I mean all involved would have to be complete plonkers (It’s an English term, just google it) in the creative and business sense. I think that the look of the Enterprise is something that will (imo) honestly play a large factor in whether this film flies or burns.
What I hope is that we are going to keep the basics of the original design, Saucer, neck, engineering section, pylons and two warp nacelles thank you kindly….
What I would not mind is the spinning light effects on the nacelles to be updated so that it conveys the magnitude of the energies at work inside. I would also like to see more detail and texture on the exterior to give the old girl a proper sense of perspective, size and mass. I also would love to be able to see through the portholes and catch glimpses of the interior.
The interior designs are even more of a minefield, there is no way that 21st Century audiences are going to accept unchanged interiors. We as original TOS fans would love it, but it will not work on either aesthetic or business models.
Why?
Because the film would just be a joke to moviegoers and sales would suffer.
FWIW I would be happy to see something that is similar to but different to what was seen in ST-TMP
Which I think had the best set designs of any Trek movie, certainly it convinced me at the age of 15 in early 1980 that this really was the 23rd century.
There are not enough purists out there to make this movie the success it needs and deserves to be. Star Trek needs to attract and hold an entire new generation to survive and flourish.
Some changes I am sorry to say, need to be made. And I do not envy JJ and his team with the task.
Phew!
Hope this makes some sense, because I think I have begun to ramble. All thoughts and text in this post are copyright to ML inc…. ;)
Good night and good luck :)
If John Eaves is responsible for the new design, or even had any influence on it, I’m not surprised. All his designs are extremely blocky, busy, “industrial” - in short, the opposite of the organic, flowing, (seemingly) simple yet elegant and “polished” style of Matt Jefferies and TOS.
The former is Star Wars standard affair, based upon today’s narrow-minded view on spacecraft design. The latter, a truly evolved vision of the future.
Well… for example, the TOS pylons look… well… meh. The secondary hull is somewhat stale on some places (near the shuttlebay), but i still love it.
Now if they make some parts of the ship more refit like there i won’t be angry :-P
Maybe the dilemma is… Antenna or no Antenna?!
The recent work of the New Voyages team and CBS Digital at creating CGI versions of the Enterprise have only show that Matt Jefferies design is Timeless.
Who cannot say that they would not expect to be blown away by the style and detail of the original Enterprise on the big screen with the big budget afforded to this movie?
I am not exactly a purist like James Cawley, but I do know and feel that to change Star Trek beyond reason is only robbing the true ideals behind it.
Hopefully JJ Abrams and his team are working on creating a spectacular movie experience in Gene Roddenberry’s Star Trek universe and are not merely attempting to shoehorn their own ideals in the it.
If fans want Star Trek to be anything but Star Trek, then they are missing the point. Frankly if this movie does mess around with Star Trek’s crown jewels, it will only end up fracturing the fan community and create a horrible situation where nobody is happy with Star Trek.
New Voyages may have its problems, but it does its best in earnest. And although James is just a fan like us, I think that he is speaking both from his heart and his head when discussing this movie.
Ditto to Mr. Cawley et al. If it doesn’t look like the original, then I hope it does have wings and rockets, because I’ll need a few laughs to offset my blood pressure on this issue.
#77
He added a comment about “flames” (and not referring to people’s posts here) a few days ago.
What more would you like? ;)
It make all sense that they(producers) want a new Enterprise and i am very interesting seeing what they will come up with. They aren’t stupid so i am pretty sure new(hopefully cool) Enterprise will have saucer, engineering and nacelles section.. Personally i feel ENT E & Refit are the best ENT designs ever.
for a guy to didn’t mind portraying kirk with an elvis ‘coif, he’s pretty hard on the designers.
i just adore new voyages, and i think it makes a perfect cultural balance to what abrams is doing.
…but if the new enterprise DOESN”T have wings, i’m going to boycott the movie! that’ll show ‘em!
People went insane about changes to the look of the Transformers & BSG and look how they turned out both very successful. Leave em alone to get on with it and lose the delusions that the look will be the same and that canon will be untouched because the 60s stuff - iconic and timeless as they are - will not cut it in a $150 million dollar hollywood blockbuster.
If u want to see em get the DVDs out.
The orginal E (not what the fools did with the last Smithsonian paint job) and Excelsior (not the annoying Ent-B, Lakota, etc.) are the best designs by far.
To back track for a second here… how did James get to see this new Enterprise model?
Dunno what to add - I agree with everything James Cawley said.
(Whom I happen to think is a better keeper of the flame than Rick Berman and about a thousand times better than Brannon Braga).
For what it’s worth:
Simon Pegg as Scotty? Well, I’ll wait till I see him in the role to decide.
No Shatner in the movie? Well, maybe the plot makes it impractical.
Time travel plot rumors? Well, maybe they are false rumors.
The big 1701’s design being changed?
OK - that’s a red line for me right there. For the first time I am starting to worry about this movie…..
No idea really, besides he never said model but design
I feel like Scotty at the K-9 Rot Gutt Inn and the Klingons just pulled out a crayon drawing of the E with wings on it.
“JJ, doncha think ya oughta re-draw that, laddie?”
Seriously, I really want to see it before I pass final judgement.
or K-7… i get so worked up.
Something tells me this is going to be SR all over again. Some people saw the new supersuit as a RADICAL redesign that changed way too much, and some saw it as the same traditional design with just a slight updating.
For some people here, anything other than the same exact Enterprise design as on TOS is going to be seen as a HUGE departure.
Frankly I’m surprised at how rigid and unimaginative everyone here seems to be.
Having just seen the HD screening, the original E design presented in HD on the large screen was just phenominal - those close up details of panelling and window interiors etc. gave tremendous scale, power, grace, realism and therefore dramatic impact. Why on earth, or Talos, they feel the need to throw that out is beyond me. I for one echo entirely James’s thoughts on the original production design.
Im just wondering if what he saw was the “real” design. For all we know only certain people know what the “real” Enterprise looks like in the film. And JJ put out a fake design to throw people off. Or thats what it looks like in the beginning of the film and then at the end it looks like the orginal Enterprise. So you never know. With that being said, im just going to wait and see. If they changed it im fine with that. I was ok with them changing Optimus Prime and Megatron. Im sure I will be ok with this one. Just has long has they have the basic shape and outline of the Enterprise and don’t add stuff like gun turrents or missle launchers to the sides then I think people will be ok. Don’t jump to conclusions just wait it out, has my father would say.
well… maybe Anthony should put up the april fools enterprise again and see what happens ;-)
completely agree with james. good interview. i dont think they should mess too much with the ship, the buttons on the bridge etc. id like to see it pretty much as it was but on a much grander scale, vibrant colours as of the old series. i want the old colour uniforms, spock in blue, kirk in that beige/gold top and scotty in red. i want all the old bridge noises when they press buttons etc. i also want that little row of lights under the main view screen! oh and that blue scanner that spock always looks into.
i also want shatner too! i guess that makes me a purist too!!! im ok with that.
cheers
greg
united kingdom
re 103… I am cyked to be seeing this shortly!!!
Just looking at this from a purely aesthetic level, The TOS Ent. is a reeeally cool design, why change it? A few tweaks are cool, and fine tuning the detail etc… (and maybe that’s all that they’re doing for all we know. everybody does like to freak out over this stuff me included)
But I’m just asking, why would you change this design? It doesn’t impact the storytelling or success of the movie to do so…
I’m wondering what people think? Doug L.
re 107 (i’m talking exterior design) d
I think it rather unfair to compare the recent Transformers movie and the Reimagined Battlestar Galactica to what is going on with the new Star Trek movie.
Transformers was a standalone product. It did not conform to the various stories that went before it. I mean, just look at the number of Transformers fans who have tried to reconcile the various series and comics into one cohesive continuity. It’s frankly an impossible task.
Indeed, the biggest gripe that seemed to get the fans of Transformers up in arms was the voice casting. And for many fans, the Enterprise is a character just like Spock and Kirk. We are not simply talking about having a younger version, or suspending belief that new actors are performing classic characters. The Enterprise must look just as believable as any of the other topline characters.
Likewise, Star Trek has a heritage of over 40 years and 100’s of episodes. And while being a HUGE fan of the original Battlestar Galactica, that series, while being fondly remembered by fans and casual viewers alike, only lasted 1 Series. To reimagine something that has essentially been dead, or at least sleeping, for 20 years is infinitely easier than reimagining a successful franchise that only recently went on a hiatus.
Would anyone bother to watch a reimagining of Buffy The Vampire Slayer if it was made today? There is a reason shows like Star Trek and others are successful, and while some fade over time and leave only the memory of good times, Star Trek remains very much alive and is still in the public eye. Why else would Paramount be investing such a huge amount of creative talent, time and money into the project if they didn’t feel the movie would not be HUGE.
If they are mucking around with the Enterprise design, then why should they bother having Quinto with pointy ears and eyebrows. It would be mindboggling if the producers choose to remain faithful to the alien makeup over the design of the ship. I also feel it would be rather lazy if they did not at least try and see what the original Enterprise would look like onscreen.
The movie is still over a year from being released. And while I’m sure that they’ve already done most of the design work, any thing is really possible.
My concern is that they’re going to turn it into an ugly, hulking mass. Something outfitted with guns, huge bulky paneling…just all the modern Trek crap. I was truly hoping we would see an improved Enterprise, but keeping with the clean lines and majesty of Matt Jeffries original. GAH.
wings? they are probably redesigned nacelles .
I’m gonna take a “wait and see” attitude, but with Orci & Kurtzman being writers AND producers of this film and also responsible for the writing of Transformers and defenders of those robot designs… well, lets just hope for the best any way.
I am hoping that this movie is like the cover to a piece of music. In other words, it has the same beats, melodies and lyrics but with a slight alteration to arrangement. As long as their is a Captain named Kirk, a Vulcan named Spock and a cranky doctor named Bones all on a starship called Enterprise, I’ll be happy (oh, and a kick-ass, well-written yarn would help as well).
And I know that this isn’t always a popular example, but if it’s like how Singer and crew approached Superman by mining the history and tying it thinly together than this Trek might just work.
To quote Alfred E. Neuman, ‘what, me worry?’
Frankly, the only thing being committed to film right now are the scenes with live actors.
Space sequences will be worked upon right up until the prints have to be run for delivery to theaters, about a year from today. Glad James spoke out. If the model they’re planning to use sucks that bad, gripe and complain about it *now* when there’s still a chance to change the final result.
Plenty of time to… to quote Barney Fife… “nip it in the bud”
Of course, there’s no reason one couldn’t accept minor tweaks to the pre-WNMHGB Enterprise, explaining it as “refit from its Pike missions, but yet to receive its thick gray perma/duracoating, so more detail is visible on the outer hull…”
Sort of a “reverse engineering” of the same thing Probert said about why the TMP refit looked rather different….
re 109. Nicely spoken! My sentiments exactly on all counts. (love the new BSG too, and I’m a huge fan of Classic BSG… diehard fans do have open minds)
dl
#71
Andy,
I respect what you say. I AM open to change, but I believe some things should NOT be changed. The 1701 is the 1701, period. They can give us more detail, but they can’t change the original design. If they want to stick to canon they should start where it counts the most. The reason for the Smithsonian Exhibit of the Enterprise is because the 1701 is an historical icon.
I agree with number 19, Diabolik. That was the first thing that came to mind when reading Mr. Cawley’s comments about the “Contemporary Trek” look. If not, too bad and J.J. should and I hope does read this site and react accordingly as the ship design won’t be affected by the writers’ strike. On the other hand, everyone who’s panicking here should recall one thing…the people responsible for this film have repeatedly stated they are updating while honoring the original, that they are well aware of what we all think and they respect us and our opinions (unlike a certain man by the name of Rick Berman who couldn’t have cared less about what we thought).
I’m not sure the new Enterprise design will please hardcore fans, but JJ seems to like it:
http://www.plaidstallions.com/images/remcotrek.jpg
what the f*ck does a vehicle designed to fly solely in space need wings for anyway???
As far as the Enterprise design goes, the closer it looks and feels like the original series– the better. Years ago a few “bright” individuals decided to “update” the look of Godzilla, and we all know how that turned out. If you want to make a Godzilla movie, then the monster should look like Godzilla. And if you want to make TOS Star Trek, I think you’re going to be most successful if you do every thing you can to capture the look and feel of the original series. It’s such a fantastic look, and none of the other ST series even came close to it. I’m going to a “The Menagerie” screening tonight, and we all know that that film will certainly have the look and feel of classic Trek. It could certainly be done by Abrams and Company. I just hope they’re smart of enough to know that. And smart enough to actually do it.
This is silly. “Wings” is quickly becoming the 2008 version of “flames”. Unless someone can specifically point out an individual or post written by someone who claims to have seen these “wings”, maybe we can just drop it? Because so far AFAIK, only James has said he’s seen the design, and he says “That being said I do not know who started the rumor that that the new Enterprise “has wings,” but I certainly did not.”
Hey, CmdrR!! Thanks for that!!!!! Frikkin’ hilarious and a blast from the past for me!! I used to have one of those!!! Love it!!!! I wish I still had it so my kids could check it out!
It’s amazing how often people put the cart before the horse here. I’ve been guilty of it myself, and every time I end up regretting my words.
People, we haven’t seen the new Enterprise yet. Cawley has, and he’s made his opinions known without giving any details away. As a self-confessed Trek Purist, he wasn’t thrilled with the design. Roberto Orci has mentioned that the design stays surprisingly true to the original, however. Let’s face it, the ship won’t look 100% like the one from TOS, or even the Remastered episodes, but I’m betting it’s not too far a walk way from the iconic design.
Until an image of the new design is released, can’t we at least try to restrain ourselves a bit. Collectively, we’re beginning to sound like a bunch of Chicken Little’s, screaming that the sky is falling with each new tidbit of info or opinion. Thank goodness that Abrams and company have shown some respect for Trek, because they’d have to go a long way to have any respect for US after reading many of the comments here. They’re probably laughing themselves silly over all of this.
Angels and Ministers of Grace protect us…from ourselves. Everyone chill until we see it for ourselves. Yeesh!
I have always been against the recasting.
Changing the ship design significantly is as bad or worse.
I will wait until I see the design of the thing before commenting futher on that.
Maybe the Enterprise looks different because the Romulans have changed the past and so some things don’t look the same anymore. But wait Spock will travel back in time and changes things back to normal.
My God, how ridiculous are some of these posts? I love Star Trek as much as anyone here, but come on guys, some of you really need to get a grip - the hatred of anything other than those 76 original episodes that dares call itself ‘Star Trek’ (TNG etc) - so its your favourite series, but Star Trek is about more than just one series and one cast. Relax a bit, wait for the film to come out and be thankful that the spirit of Gene’s original series is continuing! It does seem that anything less than Shatner putting on that Girdle again and a tight yellow shirt won’t satisfy a certain purist desire among some!
Now, rant out of the way, of course the ship can be re-designed, and don’t forget John Eaves is on the design team, so it will probably borrow heavily from the Enterprise - E (Shock horror to the aforementioned purists of all things 1960’s!).
In terms of the story, its fairly obvious from the leaks so far that the change in history will have taken place BEFORE the 5 year mission, so the point is that the timeline is altered when Kirk etc are very young (maybe before they are born?), so the ships, uniforms etc will and can be different.
I like this idea, as it gives the connection to the original look and timeline, but also allows an update for new audiences. Don’t forget, a lof of the audience will probably have seen First Contact as their most recent Trek film (the last one that had huge box office appeal), so they will expect more than a cruelly oversized exact reproduction of 1701 on the screen. Its an iconic design, but…well it reflects the modelling technology of the time, hence the constant change of design.
Lets all enjoy someone else’s vision of the design, not condemn it before we’ve even seen it!
Incidentally…as much as I respect James Cawley and what he’s managed to accomplish (with lots of help…don’t want to leave anyone out) with New Voyages, I think it would be far more important to fans to know what Leonard Nimoy thinks of it.
# 38… Santa wore Green originally dude… before the red it was green… sorry man
I dont care too much about the design of the ship… come on guys, thats sooo geeky, that is what gives Star Trek Fans a bad name to all non-trekkers!!! I just want the Ship to look like the Enterprise from the outside… with a ST:VI style bridge and uniforms that look something like the original… as in have the same rank style on the sleeves and are either Gold/Green, Yellow or Blue… thats it!! oh and Romulans look like Romulans and Klingons look like Klingons… the nitty gritty details arnt important to me its the basic familiarity… the fact that it looks Trekish and preferably TOSish
This film is going to look modern whether we like it not guys… all we can hope is that it look familiar and feels Trekish!
I really hope the powers that be creating this film realize that the Matt Jeffries design is indeed timeless. To create a complete redesign of the ship as well as the show makes no sense when you have Nimoy in there. It just screws with the ever troublesome continuity. Enterprise bombed not only for repetitive stories from earlier TNG spin offs, but from the effects design. When I saw the Defiant on the “Mirror” something episode I was so happy to see that TOS design and almost correct sound effects. The Enterprise TOS design is a very important part of the series. It has it’s own character, identity, if you will.
I can’t wait to see what happens with all this.
I’m almost, kinda with the whole chrome fins and rocket booster engines thing…
Flash Gordon meets Matt Jeffries.
Spocko hanging out the window, waving at the girls…
Maybe fins, rather than wings?
But yes, stupidity aside, I think that there were so many things I wanted this to be… but basically I wanted it to be TOS on the big screen. And they did that, it was Star Trek: The Slow Motion Picture, so be careful what you wish for..
There’s no Shatner, so I’m a bit sad. There is no original TOS Enterprise, so I’m a bit sadder. Sylar in Spock hair just looked depressing somehow (but what did I expect?) I just need to see the new spandex Bridge Combat Starfleet Survival Suit Body Armour and I’ll be completely melancholy…
But, and to agree with almost everyone here (I think). It might very well be very OK, maybe once the dashing of all one’s hopes on the rocks of Updating and Contemporarifying are done, it’s still something I want to see.
Very. Very much.
Sucks being a fanboy doesn’t it? :-)
PS. I liked this thread a lot better than the ‘lets jump on Harlan’s head’ thread.
Didn’t Nimoy respond to TOS-R with “shame on them” and without even seeing any of the eps?
Things that would be cool:
The Enterprise-era sfx of the reactions going on in the nacelle caps…
CGI-enabled looks at here-to-fore never noticed details…
A deflector dish (I always thought it was the sensor array until TNG came along) that looks something other than 1965 tech…
CGI-enabled tours of the ship in great detail, a la the loving shots of The White City in LOTRROTK…
some CGI-motion-capture enabled aliens to crew the new E…
red panties…
new phaser/photon/warp effects…
There’s tons of room for creative people to play. I seriously hope they consider keeping the very basic aesthetics of the E.
not XI related, but a cool redesign:
http://www.gabekoerner.com/ent/ent_010706_0003.jpg
Movie has romulans right? Maybe someone mistook a TOS romulan bird of prey for the enterprise.
I can’t see why or how, on a production this closely guarded and secretive, they’d let a guy that makes internet fan films see what is most likely the most guarded design in the new film. No offense to James Cawley, but I don’t think he has friends THAT high up. Hell, Zach Quinto said he was one of the only actors allowed to have his own copy of the script! I’ll wait for a trailer to see what they’ve really come up with or get worked up.
Look if Cawley wants to break down and cry then pull himself together and fly into a screaming rage and poop into his hand and then throw it at the screen before finally slitting his wrists when the new 1701 Ent appears on screen with wings and takes off from san francisco airport with flames coming out of the new jet portals and the Millenium Falcon flys out the hanger bay (which is now found where the bridge used to be) come 25th Dec then thats ok with me providing that i aint in the same cinema….
Seriously though i hope they DON’T change at all……or if they do they keep it very minor. I dont mind some changes to make it look more futurstic (like the TMP Ent)
anyway like some one on here said - whoever it was that showed Cawley the design probably showed him the Enterprise E or the new Ent F for Nimoys Spock scenes set in the TNG era LOL….so Cawley pukes his guts up thinking its the classic 1701 enterprise and runs like Shatner Shore Leave style to his computer to tell everyone (which like…um…you’re like not supposed to do when someone entrusts you with secret info? - I bet whoever it was that showed him is going ‘Well i was about to give him a copy of the script, show him all the new uniforms, introduce him to Nimoy and get him a part as a redshirt but he can totally f**k off now!’) lol again…
oh dont mind me - i just jealous cause i dont get to play Capt Kirk alongside Takei and Konig etc in my own star trek episodes…
#126- “the hatred of anything other than those 76 original episodes ”
79 episodes actually.
“so they will expect more than a cruelly oversized exact reproduction of 1701 on the screen. Its an iconic design, but…well it reflects the modelling technology of the time, hence the constant change of design.”
The modeling technology of the time simply created what was designed. That’s what determined the look of the ship, not the construction technique. And the ship’s design holds up just fine, thank you.
In fact, in about 2 1/2 hours, we’ll see just how much that design does hold up on the big screen. We’ll see how many laugh and walk out snickering at this outdated relic.
Not many, I’d wager.
agree with #22 John
JC…you arse! James pelase keep your “inside scoops” to yourself. First off you are jeopardizing someones job by talking about how you have seen the design of the Enterprise…or anything else. Don’t you think the production staff read stuff here? And, who made you an authority? Second i don’t care about recieving news from you…especially in regards to design.
UUUUPA, people stop attacking each other!!!!
Why are people here still going on about wings when his post states that he did not propigate that rumer and that it is just that, a rumer? We all should read a little closer I think before we get worked up.
Okay, so long as it keeps the same basic shape, I’m cool with it. In the same vein that the refit Enterprise was similar to the original. I just hope they don’t make it too radically different in shape, for example the Enterprise-D as compared to the original.
It’s probably misinformation to keep fans interested while the design work continues. This tactic was used by the crew of Alien back in 1979 with huge success.
I’ll wait until opening day before making judgements on the aesthetics.
Oh and I should add: of course they’re going to change it a bit! By late 70’s they realized the original design did not have nearly enough detail to awe audiences on the big screen. So now that it’s over 40 years later, people still expect them to use the same exact design?
#128
Christmas will never be the same…
#136 - no offense, i love the original design, i’m just realistic about what will be seen in the film.
But I really don’t think the showing of the Menagerie is a good comparison - several tens of thousands of fans watching a favourite episode doesnt really tell us that the roughly 50 million cinema-goers who will be expected (hopefully) to see the new movie will have the same appreciation of the original design.
Its like trains - some people love steam trains, but if one pulled up at the station for your daily commute into London, you’d be pretty pissed off! You expect all mod-cons, just like when you go to the movies
I think we will see something similar but new - just like the Ent A, B, C, D, E and J are all twists on the classic design.
The point is its great to see the crew out treking, no matter what the ship looks like
#135
LOL funny stuff..and i agree! he needs to be sensative to what he says, when and who he can get in trouble by talking about stuff he may be pervy to.
Uh-oh. I’m not liking the sound of this. So far, the glimpses of the uniforms under the raincoats (if those are the uniforms, it doesn’t even look like they kept the original colors) and now hearing that the Enterprise has been radically changed.
Ah well. I don’t actually have to like or go see this movie. A little disapointing all the same.
#134 Sean, it was words to that affect that I stated in the post about the Quinto in Spock’s makeup thread (#150, I think). I ‘aint from Missouri, but I think if you saw the Enterprise drawings, why don’t you post a sketch of what you saw and SHOW US. My point here is that it starts to sound like a flaming type of comment to just say hte ship is redesigned and I am not happy with it. And then just leave it at that. Why don’t you like it? What was changed? I can guess that James Cawley can draw a decent picture, so again I ask; why don’t you post it and end the pointless debate?
Right now, I am not buying into anyone having seen anything. It doesn’t make any sense to show an outsider who would air his criticisms of the design publicly. Hate to say it, but it defies logic.
The ship/bridge scenes don’t begin filming until January, remember? The uni’s you’ve seen could easily be civilians or Romulans, or 24th Century, or early 23rd Century.
We’re ALL reading too much into too little info. Very illogical.
The costumes seen in the Quinto video clip are clearly just Vucan or Romulan clothing, looking like the stuff Picard and Spock wore in Unification.
Everyone seems to have a bee in their bonnet over all these details. CALM DOWN! Breathe in, breathe out…and relax.
Oh, no, hang on, there’s a button that doesnt look like it did 40 years ago, OH MY GOD……….!!!!
It is getting a tad silly
132 - I actually like that.
Seriously guys, chill out. For those unfamiliar with the production of Transformers, before the movie came out the design for Megatron was leaked out. The fan protest was vehement enough that Megatron’s face was completely redesigned to more resemble the original version. So don’t worry, they are listening - and will likely make changes based on our reactions.
I am totally open to new ideas, after all that’s what is best about Trek–the new and unexplored. Not the phoned-in, backstory-entangled, political storylines and vapid technobabble handwavium. But the way art forces us to perceive ourselves in a totally new way. The premise of this movie has potential to go either way, so I’ll withhold judgment. As a common fan, I very much hope this film doesn’t suck. (Remember when SG1 “200″ showed a re-imagining for a younger, edgier crowd? If Trek is done this way, TPTB harakiri is in order, and I’d welcome the death-by-tribble-pelting of this beloved franchise).
Its true heart will continue to beat in fans like Mr. Cawley and his team’s awesome work. Trek is bigger than its canon. But I think it’s not which series, which ship, or which crew. I think it’s the right attitude–and the irremovable element of hope for a more civil human race. And cool explosions.
Oh: if I had to work on the TOS bridge I’d go bat**** in 5 minutes with all that noise and blinking. Surprised it didn’t trigger seizures in the command crew.
PS These days, why is youthful attractiveness glorified over experience and character? I like ugly people in major roles too. One would hope future society be more concerned with individualistic potentials than sexual attraction, but, it’s an old story.
Liked Batman Begins. Didn’t like Star Wars 1-3 (I don’t care for CGI actors no matter how slick).
Like New Voyages. Delancy. Majel Barrett. You know, the human element.
I hope they don’t change the Enterprise. Maybe a few details, but do we really need ‘em? Look at our own space shuttle -basically a 2 tone curvy airplane. and our navy fleet and planes - do they have “Aztec panelling” on them?
Besides the Enterprise was more than just a ship… she was as much a Character in the show as Kirk SPock and McCoy. That’s why, moreso than the Ent D - people were genuinely upset when Kirk blew her up in ST 3 - that was like watching Spock die. - and we all hoped we’d get a new 1701-a and we did!
“She’s a Beautiful LAdy and we love her! - James T. Kirk
The heck with how Big E looks, are they going to have the buffont hairdos, miniskirts and go-go boots? Because it’s just not Star Trek without them! I will never accept this movie if the dress regs are different.
I’m kidding of course…. I was able to accept TMP Enterprise and while I don’t expect to compelely agree with the new design for 2008, I expect it will be something I can grow into…
I had been feeling quite positive lately about ST08. I liked most of the casting choices. If what James says is true, then the ST08 producers have their second major fan revolt in the offing (the first being Shatnergate ‘07).
I have posted several times my opinion on the good old Enterprise. If ST08 producers have changed it too much then they don’t know what makes Trek Trek*. If there is only one design aspect of TOS they have to keep to make it “real” STAR TREK, its Matt Jefferies’ Constitution Class. If they have changed something as iconic to Trek as the Starship Enterprise then are in for the mother of all internet flamewars.
And now I’m off to see the real Enterprise in the best Trek movie ever, The Cage. Okay The Cage with those annoying framing bits from TOS.
*What about the new Enterprise in STtMP you ask? I’ve never liked it stylistically. STtMP barely passes my test for “real” Trek because it includes the original cast. Otherwise, meh….
“…all I will say is that the ship design seems to borrow heavily from “Contemporary Trek.”
Well, what’s the point, then? And this after those great pictures of young Spock! I’m no absolute purist and have been on board with most the decisions made so far, but if they drop the ball on this one, well, that’s worse than poor judgment, it’s poor taste. Does it really take a rocket scientist to appreciate and retain what is timeless (i.e., classic) while adding some contemporary dash? There’s no reason and no excuse for a radical redesign of the ship. And there’s no reason to go back to TOS if you aren’t going to proceed from its strengths, Matt Jeffries’ designs among them. I have faith that J.J. and crew will make the right decisions.
“What, me worry?” is right.
Wayne Spitzer
I can’t wait for the new movie but please don’t mess with the enterprise design its iconic. But maybe the story will transition pikes enterprise and kirks enterprise.
Next from J.J. Abrams will be an updated version of “Lassie”.
Lassie will be played by a pitbull who, in the climax of the film, will attempt to save Timmy from the well using a grappler built into his collar…but it won’t be necessary because Timmy will have wings and fly himself out.
“You don’t pull the mask off the ol’ Lone Ranger and you don’t mess around with the “E”!
As long as the design is done more faithfully than Megatron and StarScream, I’ll be content.
I have a feeling if the Enterprise looks like I think it might, it maybe a very short stay in the theater for me.
What I would love to come of this film is for it to be so good and so cool that it becomes popular again; I’d love to see like a load of schoolkids wanting desperately to play with new Trek action figures etc. or having pretend phaser battles across the schoolyards and get swept up with the franchise, just like UK kids have with the new Doctor Who, so that Star Trek survives in the memory for aeons to come. If that means a redesigning of the Enterprise (such that the TOS Enterprise design can be explained too…) then I’m OK with that. Just make a good film that puts Star Trek back on the map, in the public hearts and minds!! I’ll reference #104 here and just note how the redesigning of Optimus Prime etc really reinvigorated what was a dead/dying 80s franchise in Transformers…
And when you think about it, the NX-01 was a “new Trek” design, so maybe the Enterprise should follow on from that…
And does that mean that Anthony’s April Fools design was closer to the final design than we originally thought…? (Can we see that again, pretty please? Infact if the Enterprise did turn out like that I wouldn’t be too bothered, though I am well aware that not all out there feel as I do…)
And as much as I love James Cawley and ST:NV don’t you think that “closer to ‘Contemporary Trek’” is only something that is a matter of opinion? We’ve all got thousands of images in our heads of what this exactly means, I’m sure…
Guys, don’t panic. I’m sure JJ’s lot know what they’re doing with this. Just pray that this is the new lease of life the franchise has been praying for…!
Atlas: I agree about the noise. Talk about noise pollution in your work environment!!!
But really, the best Trek is about characters, stories, and ideas. Not about how many black panels there are on the inner side of each of the 1701’s warp pylons. (Four in TOS Remastered, I believe.)
On the one hand, the 1701 design shouldn’t be the make-or-break factor in the Trek ‘08. On the other hand, it IS a character and it is well-known and much loved by Trek fans. Even non-fans recognize it. And if JJ is smart he’ll try to turn former non-fans into Trekkers.
I like the contemporary look of Trek, so this is a plus for me… I prefer the more sleek, more designed and textured look over the “dated”/”timeless”/ whatever you wanna call it look of the original.
Starship designs are crucial. They tell a story about, who built them (was it a peaceloving species driven to space by curiosity, exploration, survival, trader, or war?) and how advanced were the builders, and when were they built (federation starships are easily placed on a timeline because we know Trek’s history)… However all of this, plays heavily on our expectations: The audience comes with certain expectations. In reality, we may be easily fooled because we compare everything to “what we know”.
We don’t know in reality, how an alien species would design warships compared to civilian ships. We don’t know what constitutes “advanced design” from their perspective… They may favor minimalism or not; its a cultural thing.
Anyway: Colours, materials, and even shapes, envoke moods in us… Personally I always loved the NCC1701-D for its bright and warm colours - and not to forget, the bridge is so uncluttered! I feel that’s the right direction to go in keeping the spirit and message of Star Trek… The newer designs are also quite nice, but I see some problems with the NCC1701-E in particular due to its dark, militaristic design. The same goes for the Defiant. While these designs may come from a desperate need for survival, it just doesn’t sit well… remember there was a time when the federation didn’t need warships. That was more in concert with Roddenberry’s bright future.
On a related note, I’ve always had a problem (and I know I’m not the only one, though this IS a matter of personal reference - so it seems) with the overly twisted exterior shape of the NCC1701-E… It makes it hard to “grasp”. The ship may still look “federation-like”, but its an odd shape that is hard to “see”.
Aside from these considerations, starships are noticable landmarks of humanitys scientific advancement… I’m sure we will be proud of them in the future. Provided we have the resources, we will make it a priority to design them well, and make them aestetically beautiful… Though I do suspect, the design will remain primarily an outgrowth of function, and the first many generations of starships will probably favor a simple, economic design. It makes a lot of sense that the TOS era doesn’t look as technologically advanced as the TNG era.
I’ve also been told that Gene Roddenberry said, the technology will sooner or later become so advanced that you can barely see it … I think that’s a good point! And generally, I’m not impressed with lots and lots of buttons and flashing leds (its usually nonsense) nor do I appriciate that every single function on the ship is readily accessible - “on screen”… No, functions should be hidden in a hirachy and only the most important functions are visible at any given time. What this means is, the viewscreens should not contain a lot of information that you don’t need, and the consols don’t need to be lifesize.
Yes, starship designs are an interesting topics. I love them, not for the flashing buttons nor the insane speeds or the powerful weapons, but because they signal mankinds expansion into space. We come in peace with the purest motivation, not to conquer but to learn.
However the fact is, we don’t even know if faster-than-light travel is possible, without using some sort of wormhole. Is warp-speed a realistic dream? Maybe so, but what about the intertial dampeners? Some say they are a little too fantastic… but never say never… But the point is, we don’t know the technology of the future. We can only make guesses.
I look forward to see what Abrams has in store for us… His interpretation of Star Trek will no doubt be slightly different and new to us, and it could be great. In any case, its a new chapter in the saga, and I hope the ship designs will honor the Trek tradition; surely, the federation starships are the most unique designs I have ever seen in sci-fi… They do not really resemble any natural shape, like a bird, but they still look so “natural” and simply makes a lot of sense.
How can you compare Transformers to Star Trek — that is like comparing Super Bad to Gone With the Wind!!!! The ship should be the original design period — there is no logical reason why it should not be. Was the USS Defiant in “In a Mirror Darkly” radically different? NO OF COURSE NOT!!! Was the U.S.S. Enterprise in “Trials and Tribulations” radically different? NO OF COURSE NOT!!!! Hey J.J. and company if it ain’t broke don’t break it. Of course the Enterprise had a new look in TMP (DUH!!!!) — since it took place AFTER TOS. This is a (supposedly) time travel story that takes place in Captain Pike’s era — how can anyone logicall explain the Enterprise looking radically different??????
Anybody remember this earlier re-design of the Enterprise done by Ralph McQuarrie for STTMP?
http://jrients.blogspot.com/2006/04/uss-enterprise-phase-ii.html
Say what you will about Gabe Koerners’ design,but you have to admit that this click Rocks!!! (remember this is not cannon,just an excuse to show this)
http://www.gabekoerner.com/ent/trekreel002.mov
#132
Cool designs… looked at some of the other stuff and I’m impressed… I bet most fans could live with the changes presented in those renders, I know I’d be fine with the Enterprise looking like this, it’s a classy almost deco rethinking!
Check out this quicktime demo using this dudes kick ass model…
http://www.gabekoerner.com/ent/trekreel002.mov
PS this stuff belongs to a guy named Gabe C. Koerner, according to his resume he worked on the final few ep’s of Enterprise.
looks like WIll Doe and I had the same idea ;)
Nice video, but that ship does not look peaceful at all, in fact it’s the Enterprise on steroids. Why is it so inmense? and why does if look so industrial? It’s closer to a transformer than to the other Enterprises
That is a great design — but still it is not the original……
Not trying to be stubborn — but just for sake of continuity, why can’t we just keep the original design????????
@170. out of date. the same reason they used the “Constitution refit” design in TMP.
#166
It is good. But still, no.
#165
Hell no! RM is genius, but Hell No!
#57: Holy frack! Have I been buried somewhere and somehow missed the triumphant return of ol’ Hitch “Mac in the Pants” 1969? Good to see ya, sir!
#171 — NOT of out of date, if a good chunk of this film revolves around the Captain Pike era — it should be the same original design that ALSO APPEARED in DS9 and ENTERPRISE (why weren’t different designs used then). AGAIN as I stated in a prior post, re-fit for TMP was because it took place AFTER TOS. Pike’s ship took place in the TOS. My G-d what is it that we’re not getting here???? Besides being a new movie can someone please give me a logical reason why the original look cannot be featured in this movie?????
BTW kudos to the Yankees for keeping Jorge Posada!!!!!!
The Enterprise design “borrows from contemporary Trek”? That makes me a bit nervous. If he means the TMP Enterprise, okay. But TNG onward… bleah.
Thank you James Heany, you are a Starfleet officer, and a gentleman.
And for clarification on my post #57 - the reason that we were playing in a field was because it was rural midwest Colorado in the late 1970s and we were pretending that we just beamed down to a planet.
I thought that kind of explained itself, but you never know. I can’t understand why any kid wouldn’t want to play the part of James T. Cawley.
Rock on New Voyages!
=h=
ok, maybe some minor cleanup to interior, but again, leave the exterior alone. Changing it adds no value, except to create some buzz around the release of the movie. I can already see Entertainment Tonight doing a text message survey for old vs. new 1701.
BTW, no one could ever replace the Shat as TOS Kirk and my childhood hero, but I won’t cry if he isn’t in the movie (sorry Shat).
Thank you #177 — Changing it adds no value! Or perhaps (my theory) is that the “Enterpise on Wings” is 24th century altered timeline version — perhaps giving Spock another reason to go back in time and fix things. That is the only logica that I can come up with on that one.
Yankees offered Mariano Rivera 45 million for 3 years. Hey MO — just sign the dotted line already.
It does not matter to me what it looks like. The enterprise and her crew by the end of the film will be born again. I am not going to lose my composure over how it will or will not change. The irony of all of this debate is ,that the message of trek is the hope for the future . If fans cannot be positive over what is new and unexplored how can the message of trek flourish? Love the past but embrace the future. I love all trek. I have my favorites. But I respect each attempt to entertain while spreading the messsage of a hopeful future. I will hope that this movie will do the same …regardless of how it attempts to further the message.
I will be disappointed if the E is changed radically. I would expect some updating, sure, but the essential style should remain the same, just as Mr. Cawley said. Still, like James, I will want the movie to succeed, and of course I’ll be at the movie! The recent pics of Zachary Quinto were simply amazing!
On another topic (please excuse the off-topic question here)–James, if you read any of these–where can I see a video of you doing Elvis? I have seen stills of you in the Aloha suit (looks amazing), but I have never heard you sing or do the moves. I’ve not found anything on youtube, etc… I would love to see a video of you doing Elvis!
As much as I love to complain about things, I think we just all need to relax. If you don’t like it, then don’t see it. Then you can complain that we have to wait 10 years for Trek.
So they changed the Enterprise… the film has to appeal to the masses, as well as to Trek fans. While I wouldn’t mind it staying the same, who nowadays wants to go see a movie with a CGI ship that looks like it’s plastic? If it’s supposed to be in the future, then why use all those 60’s dials and such? Again, I wouldn’t mind, because I am cool with Trek. However, if they don’t redesign it to some extent, it will look cheesy to the average movie-goer.
Great…so it will be a deimagining then. Back to pessimistic… >|>{
So Leonard Nimoy’s Spock is a different Spock then we know, or does the GoF send them back to an alternate history, or what?
With as much attention as the producers say they are paying to the canon, with as much detail as they have given to the look of Spock, the look of Chris Pine as a Kirk, the look of Zoe Saldana as Uhura and Anton Yelchin as Chekov, I cannot imagine they are going to totally blow up the original design and start over. Orci said in an earlier interview here that the desig