John Logan On New ‘Star Trek’ December 9, 2007
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Feature Films (TMP-NEM), Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback
Oscar-winning screenwriter John Logan is looking forward to the Christmas release of his next film Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street, but he is still gets questions about being associated with the only bona fide flop of the Trek franchise: Star Trek Nemesis. The Edmonton Sun quotes Logan defending his time on Trek and giving the new Star Trek his endorsement as well:
Did it feel like I killed the franchise?” he says with a laugh. “No. We all felt we put a great movie together. But I remain a huge Star Trek fan, and anybody who makes one, I’m first in line at the box office. I hear (Abrams’ script) is great.
It appears that Paramount/DreamWorks isn’t holding Logan responsible for Nemesis. Paramount is the studio behind Sweeney Todd and in 2009 Dreamworks will be releasing a Steven Spielberg directed biopic on Abraham Lincoln based on a script co-written by Logan.
Is Nemesis the worst?
The last Star Trek film may have been the biggest financial failure of the Trek film franchise, but was it the worst? Vote in the latest poll for the bottom of your Trek barrel. (see right sidebar)
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Takes a lot of talent to cobble together ideas from Star Treks II, III, V, and VI and then present them as your own.
Nemesis wasn’t all that bad, but it could and should have been much better. Hopefully ST XI will remove some of the bitterness Nemesis left in many fan’s mouths.
Nemesis……….sigh. Such a missed opportunity. Tom Hardy was a huge mistake as Shinzon…the director was a huge mistake. So many out of character moments….and it just continued to deviate from what Next Gen truly was.
i am first, and therfore the biggest winner in the history of the universe.
Nemesis was the Star Trek V of the Next Generation movie era… a pretty interesting idea that failed due to horrible execution.
It’s the only Star Trek movie I don’t remember at all. I know the basic plot only because I’ve heard people talking about it, but I honestly can’t remember a single scene from the movie. I may have seen it in theatres, but I’m not sure. I think I tried to watch it three years ago, but I don’t know if I ever finished it. Maybe I should refresh my memory sometime…
I guess am not first. I am the biggest loser in the history of the univers.
MORE DULL AND LACKLUSTER THAN ACTUALLY BAD…
I’m not here to defend NEMESIS (I, too, think it’s the weakest of the TNG films), and I only saw it once in the theaters (don’t even own it on DVD), but I don’t seem to recall the filme being out-and-out BAD, as say, some of the more embarrassing moments of STAR TREK V (which, arguably, is still an overall better film/story than NEM). I just remember it being deadly DULL.
I seem to recall Shinzon taking FOREVER to walk down that staircase for his big reveal and thinking, “God, this movie is HORRIBLY paced” and then looking at the actors on screen and realizing they all looked TIRED. Not old, not badly-lit… just tired, you know? From then on, I just couldn’t get into the rest of the movie.
I remember walking out of the theater and there was no electricity in the air, no excited chatter at what a great movie is was, like after walking out of TREK’s II, III, IV, VI and FIRST CONTACT. It was a sad and depressing feeling and I knew we were in a for a TREK sabbatical of some kind, although I never expected it to be the last TNG film. A real shame.
Okey. heres my take on NEMESIS. Logan knew what he was doibg with this movie. it’s just that the director went and f***ed it up. (and i do mean f*&^ed it up). first and for most a trek movie must be a trek movie, then an action movie second. What do I mean by that? A trek movie would have allowed the Riker?Troi wedding to have it’s due. At least the dancing sean would have stayed in, if not the Wesely bit. Baired (Alright, I remembered his name now), killed that whole bit. he didn’t have any respect at all for Star Trek.
And to the guy who comment about Hardy being the wrong guy. I think he was fantastic. I would like you to name an actor who could have done it better. Hardy is a young actor, with not to many movie credits under his belt. So the fact that he did so well on a big deal action flick is commendible.
The only thing that I can really really down on Logan is that he wrote the charcters doing a few things they wouldn’t normally do. Picard just seemed to welding his phaser a lot more in this script. but…. that said I loved the Data B4 bit. I liked the Shinzon/picard bit. I liked the wedding short as it was. And in this script there was an attempt to let each charactor have his moment (although Worf unfortunatly got the short end of the stick)… and For once Troi has something meaningful to do, and she doesn’t destroy anything in the process.
And who can deny that the two ships crashing is not the coolest thing to hit the big screen. You can’t
so there you go. Theres my case for why Nemesis was okey, why it should have been great, and why it it wasn’t great.
please feel free to despute my points.
The *only* bona fide flop? I thought Star Trek V: The Final Frontier was a flop as well.
In any case — Nemesis was a terrible, terrible movie. The plot was simply retarded. If they were gonna do a TNG movie with the Romulans, why not bring back Sela? Tomalak? Those are folks who had REAL beef with Picard & Friends. Sela in particular would’ve been an excellent film villain, given the right plot. It was truly a lost opportunity, and it’s a shame that it killed the TNG movie franchise.
#5
Agreed, except what makes Nemesis even worse is it lacked the few rewarding character moments V managed to squeeze in. Of course, based on the cut scenes it doesn’t seem that was necessarily Logan’s fault.
I had a lot of hope for Nemesis, but in the end it sank because the story was simply not logical. Shinzon was cloned from Picard and, because of regime change, grew up at a normal pace — meaning the Romulans were trying to infiltrate Starfleet with a clone of a captain who was commanding a deep-space vessel (Stargazer) on a multi-decade mission, with no indication that he would eventually become the influential officer he ultimately became. Then there was B-4, who was somehow detected light-years away by the Enterprise after Shinzon, presumably knowing where the Enterprise was headed — heck, who needs a clone spy? — reprogrammed him. And Picard became a complete basket case in all this, even worse than the emotional damage done to him by the Borg — hardly someone you’d want to leave in command of the Federation flagship.
There’s more … but the simple fact is, the story was made secondary to lots of shooting, explosions and a villain intended to better (but falling woefully short of) Khan. I’m willing to believe this was not Logan’s fault, but the result of pressures unrelated to the story.
I’m still not ready to rate Nemesis as worse than ST V … but it sure didn’t help.
Well I still think ST V is by far the worst Trek movie. Yes, Nemesis was pretty dull, but The Final Frontier spat in the face of all Trek.
I still say Insurrection was the truely worst nextgen movie, but Nemesis should have been alot better…and the dune buggy scene….well pure shit like that shouldnt have gotten anywhere near the filming stage. The movie should have been about Romulans not some horseshit about a sub species, B-4 was an embarassing concept. I still love the battle scenes, but other than that it blows…so on second thought maybe it was the worst nextgen film…..
oh and the director was totally wrong for this project…and reinforced by listening to his embarassing commentary….Braid didnt even seem to have a passing familularity with the show….go back to Bond films….there you kicked mighty ass.
the story was horrible..the villians cliche’ to the max there was a few very few ‘ok’ moments in it but overall I wish to forget this movie every happened which is relatively easy..
We’re too hard on this guy.
The studio killed Star Trek, and Nemesis was their fault. As I understand it, they were behind the selection of the B-rate director (all though I thought he directed a DECENT movie, but a poor Star Trek movie.)
And If the script was so terrible, the studios should have said it was a no go.
There’s no greater crime in my mind than being boring–it’s why I still prefer TOS to TNG and it’s shown by the comparison of Trek V to Nemesis: Trek V is outrageously, entertainingly bad (and also has a few moments that are actually good) while Nemesis is just plodding, flat and dull. I have to say I have never liked Logan’s work–I walked out of Last Samurai…after NINETY MINUTES. If you can’t get me involved in a period epic after an hour and a half you’re in big trouble.
But on the other hand, reading these comments, I still feel like we Trekkies are Star Trek’s worst enemy. Yes, character moments are great, but they should be the spice of a good story, not the raison d’etre. I can’t believe people still fall for the “TV characters get married” ploy…this is the oldest, cheapest “sweeps” trick in the book and it’s about the equivalent of Fonzie jumping the shark. I never bought Troi and Riker’s “relationship” and Nemesis’ creepiest, most dumbfounding moment HAS to be the depiction of the Big Wedding Night, including a ghastly shot from Troi’s POV of hairy-backed Riker mounting her! i mean, I could feel the WAVES of nausea rippling through the audience in that scene! TNG and Voyager soft-pedaled sex for so long, treating it with the sophistication of a 12-year-old who hadn’t been on a date yet, that to turn around and then just say “hey, we’re gonna show these sophisticated adult characters DOING it” just doesn’t work.
Nemesis’ problem was, the basic story didn’t work. Not because it didn’t reference enough previous episodes, but because it just lacked inherent drama in and of itself. Who can relate to “someone’s created an evil clone of me and now it wants my bodily fluids”?
I will never understand why they did not just have Patrick Stewart play both roles instead of hiring Hardy. It would have really given Stewart the opportunity to let loose and chomp on some scenes. It also would have helped the film if Shinzon wasn’t so frickin’ crazy and actually had some believable motivation. He was not enough like Picard to make the cloning plot device believable. They also could have held onto the question of whether Shinzon was good or bad A LOT longer. It was revealed too soon that Shinzon was evil.
But I would also agree that there was far more wrong with this film than Shinzon alone. I can distinctly recall laughing out loud at several points in the film at which the actors delivered lines awkwardly or just behaved out of character. It was embarrassing to watch. I feel as if the film would have been far better if LeVar Burton had directed.
“Insurrection” takes the cake as the worst of the franchise. How quickly we forget a completely forgettable movie.
Guys I love Star Trek in all its forms, so I am hesitant to criticize the hard work that everyone put into Nemesis. I remember reading the interviews with John Logan at startrek.com before the movie came out and how excited he was about the movie. I went to see it with a couple friends, and I remember how often they got up to go get popcorn or go to the bathroom. Despite all the good ideas behind the movie, it just turned out…dull. I remember it lost out to some Jennifer Lopez chick flick that week, what a slap in the face….
I watched Nemesis again recently. Its an okay action film. What I think bugs me most was we were finally getting a movie about the Romulans and then there weren’t any important Romulan characters in it!! We get a baddie human and those Remans. Remans would be an interesting footnote but the true Romulan society never gets their due. I would have preferred following up on the things alluded to in Unification.
Also Picard and Data got too much of their ‘contractual screen time’. Not enough ensemble acting.
#19… agreed, I always thought it would have been a lot more dramatic if they has simply had Stewart play his double.
Any Trek Movie that centered on a Space Probe heading to Earth was bad.
I mean….that was dead and pushing up dasies within the first few minutes of the first film.
We need a film centered on character interaction – action – plot to the film or it
will just come up DOA before the first sip of your overpriced Fountain drink.
After all if the characters don’t care or come across well then why even bother?
Nemesis just sucked. I don’t get it why it did especially since the guy who wrote it was a Trek fan, I didn’t see any love there.
Nemesis wasn’t so bad, for what it was. I haven’t really enjoyed any of the TNG movies, so it was just more of the same old song. And as much as the TNG movies bore me, I found Nemesis much more entertaining than “Insurrection.” With the bad humor and boring story it misfired on all thrusters and gets my vote for the worst.
Trek 5 is nowhere near the badness of those 2 films. In fact, Trek 5 was a great look at what made TOS tick TOS was never about kick-ass effects, it was about Kirk, Spock and McCoy and how they reacted, as human beings (and a half human being), to the dangers and mysteries of the unknown. Trek 5 has more moments like that, where the characters really seem like the characters of the TV show, than any of the other movies.
In TMP, the characters were off base…distant.
In Trek 2 they were much better, but still felt out of place at times. I mean, Spock spouting lines like “I have been and forever shall be, your friend.” What the hell? SPock NEVER spoke like that in the series. Why they wrote him as some Guru of Mt. Selaya is beyond me.
In Trek 3, Harve Bennet’t’s dialog, is equally as bad. Kirk spouting off lines like, “We’ve paid for the party with our dearest blood.” What??? Pretty flowery dialog from ol JImmy boy.
Trek 4 started to finally get it right and by Trek 5, the writing and acting of the characters was on the money.
A common complain about the story, that it’s the crew searching for God. Uh….no…the story was about a madman hijacking the ship. HE was looking for HIS god. The Enterprise being hijacked by another alien or force to be used for personal gain. Nothing new there, it was done quite often in the TV series. Maybe the story wasn’t highly original, but it wasn’t any worse than this ship being taken over by the Kelvins, The Scalosions, Sargon, Frank Gorshin or Melvin Beli.
Many cry about the techon canonical “goofs”. ” It’s not the center of the galaxy, Spock doesn’t have a brother. the ship has 70 decks, yada yada yada,,” The original series had Kirk’s evil twin from The Enemy Within sport scratches on one side of his face…then in another scene they appeared on the opposite side!! Horrors!! By some people’s rationale, that must make that episode a stinker. Go figure.
Then, of course, there are the Shat bashers who need no other reason to dis the movie, other than it was Shatner’s baby.
Not only was Trek 5 not a bad Trek movie, it’s acutally one of the best.
Why? Because it is closest in spirit and feel to the original series. If you’re a fan of the original series you can’t ask for much more than that.
If you’re not a fan of the original series, then I can fully understand why you wouldn’t like it.
Just for trivia fans ,
the Jennifer Lopez flick that beat out Nemesis was Maid in Manhattan.
Nemesis was bad, but The Final Frontier was worse, which is even more shocking than Nemesis considering Shatner should have known better. Insurrection was the only other movie that was a disappointment to me.
John Logan’s Nemesis script was probably fine, if the director had a clue about the characters. One could almost sense Brent Spiner, Patrick Stewart and Michael Dorn (in the early sequences with the stupid dune buggy) saying their lines with a great deal of pain, like “you want me to do what?”. Director Stuart Baird had no clue as to who the characters were.
The good news is J.J. Abrams is a stickler for and a master at character development and everything we’ve heard from Orci indicates the production team loves and knows the characters. Trek XI should be a great story even if purists are disappointed with a few continuity issues.
Personally I think that, beyond all the technical goofs, ST V was way too cheezy. That being said I’m glad to see at least someone enjoyed it.
I can still watch ST V and have a great time, it’s especially great to watch with large groups and lots of alcohol. Nemesis is just infuriating.
And say what you will, but I really do love the guys singing around the campfire.
that poll makes harsh reading for trek 5 and i am surprised somewhat. ive always liked this movie but some things were way beyond shatners control. the studio got cold feet on several levels ie the god theme, the fact that there was a lot of competition that summer from other blockbusters, plus they were now also funding (and concentrating on) the next generation series. TNG was probably their main concern at that time as the future of the franchise was top of their agenda.
shatners vision of the film particulary that ending was severely hampered due to lack of cash. shatner did the best he could with what he had to work with.
it always surprised me because having had unprecidented financial sucess of star trek 4 the voyage home you would have thought the studio would have been a bit more confident and ready to splash out a bit. they would have had a far better movie had they put more money up.
but for me, i love the film and its classic star trek.
looking forward to trek 11.
cheers
greg
UK
Nemesis was horrible. It took me four tries before I could even sit through it. Final Frontier gets blasted most it seems, but, while not my favorite by far, in my opinion it had some of the best character moments of the entire movie franchise. It may have it’s moments of cheese and the effects are subpar, but it’s a great Saturday afternoon adventure flick. I could certainly stand repeated viewings of it over Nemesis any day. The true deciding factor in which is worst would of course be box office revenues. Nemesis wins the award in that race. I find it amusing that Rick Berman, John Logan, etc still maintain they believe they made a good film. I’m afraid a clone isn’t even close to being Picard’s “Khan” as Berman once said they were attempting.
I recently watched Nemesis and what made it work for me this time was to use the chapter button and skip the wedding, the planet when they find B4, skip the part when Picard and Shinzon meet for dinner, skip the briefing room stuff after that and get to the point, the action scenes are mostly the fun part, though Picard seemed to be lost at some point after ramming Shinzon’s ship. Saw it in about an hour! I’m sure there will be someone on Youtube whose re-edited it!
Simple reasons why Nemesis doesn’t deserve the name STAR TREK.
The ARGO.
Invaders on deck 29 (so where are they, in space below the ship?)
Long vertical shaft in the ship.
Suddenly there is yet another brother for Data.
It all reminds me of STV:
ARGO = horses; deck 29 = deck 70; shaft = shaft; B4 = Sybok.
But the worst mistake was:
The shield status diagram!!!! Did nobody notice? They used an OLD version of the ship’s design! It’s an early drawing from John Eaves for First Contact. The one Playmates used for the FC ship model, which was simply not the one that was used in the three movies.
Nemesis’ greatest flaw (in my opinion) is that, like most of TNG and VGR, it plays it too safe; sure, Data is dead (in a rip-off of Wrath of Khan) but we have B-4 as a backup! Sure, the Enterprise E gets trashed, but you see her in drydock at film’s end, getting spruced up for the next NG movie (which thankfully never happened). One reason why this film seems so dull next to shows like the new (and way improved) Battlestar Galactica, is that it didn’t really take any big risks; it was safe, Paramount-manufactured pablum. I did like Generations, where Picard gains new insights in light of his family losses. Kirk dies, no ressurection. Even the Enterprise D is truly destroyed. First Contact was darker, but the ending played it safe again. Whatever JJ Abrams puts together, remember, “Risk…is our business!” (as Kirk himself put it so well).
Logan’s original script for Nemesis read like cheesy fan fiction– what with all the nonstop cameos and episode references– but it was still LIGHTYEARS better than the version that ended up on the screen.
At least the idea that this was the “last mission of the TNG crew” gave the story a little bit of resonance and meaning. But once they took all that stuff out, the movie no longer had any reason to exist. It became just another boring, routine adventure.
And to me the WORST Trek film is clearly Generations. TFF was at least corny fun, and Insurrection had the good sense to bring back the original, more diplomatic Picard from the series.
But Generations was just unbearably cheesy and made a complete JOKE out of TNG. It makes me embarassed to be a Trek fan.
biggest stv problem: how the hell could they warp from earth to the center of the galaxy, a 40-year trip at Voyager-level maximum warp, which would probably be more like a 60-year trip for kirks era, in a couple of days with no engine modifications? did scotty use the excelsior transwarp control crystals he gave to bones on st3? and wtf was with that planet of galactic peace crap and now that we know george takei is gay wtf were sulu and chekov doing in the woods on their shore leave….reenacting brokeback mountain?
At one point watching nemesis on opening night, I turned to my wife and said, “these two (Picard and SHinzon) are boring me. Talk talk talk.” I was disappointed by the B4 concept–been there done that. And REALLY disappointed in the lack of involvement by Geordie.
And I loved the opening scene so much–what a great start.
So many factors contributed to the downfall of this movie. I have to say I side with those who blame the director. The person helming this movie did not understand Star Trek. That said, the final script, whoever is to blame for it, was emotionally bankrupt and devoid of originality.
Much higher hopes for ST08.
I think Nemesis had soooo much potential. It was that stupid director!!!!! Sorry, my rant is now over.
Overall, I think the story could have been stronger, but some of the directing/editing choices were very poorly made.
The problem with Nemesis is the script – it was a blatant attempt to write the Wrath Of Khan story over again for TNG. And also, whoever wrote that Picard freezes at the crucial moment of the movie, letting a subordinate bail him out and get killed, doesn’t know the character. Picard wouldn’t have frozen, and he would have had Data beam out and sacrificed himself instead – which would have then ended the TNG movie franchise with Riker as captain, and Picard dying a hero (getting a better death than they dished out for Kirk, certainly). Tying that into Riker’s wedding, and you get an ending and a beginning at the same time – a poetic story.
#26 Well Said.
I just finished watching STV, and thought, That is not a bad Trek! Sure effects were below standards, but there are some of the best Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes in all of Trek. It in many ways DID feel like TOS.
I was fortunate enough to get a tour of the Paramount lot during the summer of 1988, during that writer’s strike, and saw the Enterprise Bridge being built. And asked “Wow, they have to build all new Enterprise sets?” It was explained that TNG had used most of the movies sets to the point where they required new sets built for STV. I thought then that the budget for this movie will skyrocket since STII-IV has standing sets to use.
Nemesis gets a bad rap, and as Trekkers, we seem to be constantly searching for the worst in things rather than looking for the best. I’m not going to try to defend the movie (I’ve done that at great length elsewhere), but I am going to say that I think the only reason it gets labeled among the truly worst is because it was heralded as the last Next Gen movie and they finished it with the death of what is arguably the most loved character from the TV show. Had they had their last big adventure and rode off into the sunset like the original crew did in Star Trek VI, I think it would be embraced by the fans.
I’m not trying to say that the movie was perfect, but none of them are, not even the much loved TWOK. Finally, although I did not choose it as my least favorite, I’ve never really understood the love of Star Trek IV. Give me the Star Trek universe in a Trek movie, not something that is set primarily in what was at the time, the modern day. Even though I’m not a big fan of time travel, at least First Contact didn’t set them down in the middle of modern day San Francisco. Surely they could have come up with something better than that if they would have tried a little harder.
I went to see Nemesis in the theatre, as I have every ST film. I don’t remember very much about Nemesis, so I’d have to say that, for this Trekkie, the film-makers fell short. You can’t realistically expect every movie you go to to be a major or minor masterpiece. ST fans are probably the most demanding, anyway.
I disliked Generations the most, because of the “kill-off-Kirk” whamo the producers/writers felt compelled to put in the film.
The thing that made the popular ST films hits (to whatever degree) is that something about the film touched some feeling/vibration with the audience, and it made people ENJOY ST movies. I’m thinking mostly TWOK, TVH, TUC, FC which are, generally, considered to be the most “artistically” successful films of the franchise.
Based on everything I’ve been reading, the new Trek-makers seem to understand this, so I’m expecting a lot of respect for the original concept of Trek to shine through. That original concept is what still touches people, IMO. Hope for a positive future seems to be a common wish these days…
I think the major problems with the TNG movies was that they weren’t acting like themselves. They were trying to copy the TOS formula which wasn’t them.
The movies centered around Picard and Data. While they were great characters, anybody would watched TNG knew it was an ensemble.
Picard was more of a cerebral man not John McClane. If they did storylines based on ideas and problem solving rather than The Wrath of Khan version 3.0 I am sure they would of been more successful.
I am sure I will get flack for thinking this way but I enjoyed star trek v. I enjoyed it more than te motion picture. V had a lot of human and good character moments. It is not my favorite movie but it is far from my least favorite. Most Next Generation movies were worse, especially Generations.
Also my opinion on this new star trek movie – I am excited but cautiously optimistic. I cant wait to see Leonard Nimoy play spock again (I have never seen him on the big screen). I am very curious to see how these new actors play out beloved characters. I also am curious to see how they handle the 60’s style sets and convert them to the big screen. I i would ideally like to see an exact replica, but realistically that is not going to happen. This movie is getting targeted at a younger audience (although i am 25) there will atleast be some changes. I think we will be lucky if we can recognize the sets from the original series in this new movie
Well now let me enlighten you all out there – Nemesis was technically & artistically done professionally enough – but it was different in ‘too’ dark a style & admittedly ‘outsider’ direction, which but does NOT make it ‘bad’ at all, on the contrary, in itself it is a very polished film, if not ‘true’ Trek, but I don’ t see why people keep putting the blame on Hardy or the perfectly good director besides, that’s all BS, & only shows they have to ‘blame’ someone – instead of seeing the obvious facts.
ALL the actors did as usual perfectly well at that, even though knowing this would be the ‘end’, they seem to have looked all a bit, ‘tired’ – not even ‘old’, or fed up, & given a good script, they all would return at once as simple as that, never mind all the illogical or tech hic-ups that occur in any film, the dune scenes were perfectly fun & the overall look is refined.
BUT, the ONLY reason it ‘flopped’, was because Data was killed off & no other ever, the most popular & beloved character of all ST, & the fans simply did not take nicely to that, why should they, some even knowing beforehand he would, & simply avoided the film, & people in the cinema who didn’t expect that, became very ‘upset’ when it happened, that’s why they also blame Logan – no comment on that – because they could have easily let him ‘retire’ a la last episode, ‘All Good Things…’
Like in, ‘Captain I am tired of saving the ship & your crew every week, & not ever see a deserved promotion for doing so, have a nice future but I believe it is time for me to retire now if I may, Sir…’ sort of thing –
THAT would have been much nicer & even funny, to ‘close’ the TNG franchise, if they really wanted to, but by making him depart this tragic way, & thinking that would make the character achieve his ‘final’ goal of being fully ‘human’, to sacrifice himself for his friends, (as if he hadn’t done or tried that all the time) it simply backfired & they killed it all no doubt, for all the wrong reasons, just like good Data. Full stop
Star Trek V is another one that gets a bad rap. “True” trek fans who trash STV are hypocrites–but they are not aware that they are hypocritical. I plan to provide a detailed argument and explanation on this point elsewhere.
Years ago a few people decided that STV was absolutely shameful, and then the rest of the community followed like penguins. Today, the fan reaction is nothing but a hasty reflex. You see the same thing when it comes to discussion about STII (TWOK)
Trust me, there are ONE or TWO Star Trek movies that are far more difficult to sit through than STV–or even STX.
Nemesis delivers some intensity (with minimal silliness), and is replete with stunning visuals. Some of you have simply forgotten how to enjoy sci-fi.
The title Nemesis really summed up went wrong with the TNG films. Instead of a multilayered plot what we ended up getting every time was Picard vs. some villain.
If they had made another one it probably would’ve been called ‘Star Trek Adversary’.
My biggest problem with the script, beyond all the obvious “inspiration” from Treks II and VI was the lack of a credible character arc for Jean Luc Picard.
TOS movies are memorable because they touch on the inherent issues that trouble their main characters, organic moments of evolution. TMP sees Kirk as obsessed with regaining command, with holding on to his youth in many ways. In the end, he witnesses the birth of V’ger and feels a sense of renewed vigor. That’s very much at the heart of TWOK as well. This time, Kirk accepts his age and his mortality and embraces it in the face of the birth of Genesis and his best friend’s death.
Kirk’s reckless abandon, his love of command and his friendship with Spock were there from the beginning of the series. The Kirk we saw evolve was the Kirk we all watched in TOS. His character arc was based on established traits. Same with TSFS. Kirk’s loyalty to Spock was something that was always at the heart of the series, so it made sense for him to risk it all for his friend. I could go on about TOS film series, but you get my point.
TNG series really only addresses established traits within our main characters in the first 2 films. GEN, for all that is disliked about it, holds a true emotional core for Jean-Luc Picard. This is a man who is alone in the universe. Family is everything to him (and we KNOW this from the series, have SEEN Picard’s devotion to the Picard family line) and he sees his family at an end. Picard’s guilt at never starting his own family informs so much of GEN and makes it superior to INS and NEM. Like TWOK, GEN is about our hero and how he faces death. What mortality really means. That’s even without getting into Data’s character arc. Though played for comedy, there is pathos in his rejection and acceptance of emotion.
FC obviously draws directly from Best of Both Worlds and is the most emotionally compelling TNG film. You really feel as though Picard has gone through something, that he has gone through a true character arc.
INS and NEM invent conflict, superficial conflict., for our characters. INS SHOULD be about Picard’s sense of loyalty to the principals of the Federation being tested. All that he has fought for seemingly being a lie. Him being forced to reevaluate the values he has fought to protect. The values that he gave up a normal life to protect. Instead, it’s some goofball jaunt through the forest, with Picard and Data fighting some meaningless villain with uninteresting motivation and no connection to our heroes or the internal conflicts that they face.
And finally, NEM. At least Logan TRIED to address Picard’s guilt and desire for family. This film needed something emotional to ground it. What Logan gives Picard is not a mirror image, because let’s face it, no one looks at Tom Hardy and says “That’s a young Patrick Stewart.” No one bought it. No one saw them as the same person. What you have given Jean-Luc Picard is a SON.
Picard is face with offspring. With ANOTHER PICARD. Finally, after thinking that the line would die with him after the events of GEN. After losing his surrogate son (Wesley Crusher), and the tease of the episode “Bloodlines,” here is a real Picard. It just happens to be a Romulan clone bent on galactic conquest.
What a perfect way to cap the series than to bring that internal conflict to a head. To close that door for good. That in the end, the only family Picard needs is on the Enterprise. Riker, Troi, Worf, Geordi, Crusher…and Data. In the end, Picard sees that through what he has taught Riker as Captain, what he has taught Data about being human, these are the things a father does for his children. That Picard’s final lesson to Data about being human is that the most human thing possible is to face death with courage. Mortality is what defines us as human beings, and Data’s final act allows Pinocchio to become a true “real boy.”
Logan tried to touch on those issues, but even in the script stage, it was very vague and muddled by Data’s meaningless subplot with B-4. What is left of that thematic material was gutted by Stuart Baird, but at least Logan *attempted* it.
In the end, TNG film series suffered because in at least 2 cases, either the writer or the director forgot that movies are not about cool set pieces. They are about people.
And, I almost forgot to address the fact that Picard starts cracking jokes and driving dune buggies.
FOR NO REASON…
Even IF Picard was going through a late life crisis where he wants to recapture his youth, for most of his career in Starfleet, he’s been a stuffed shirt. Sure, in FC he flexes his muscles and is an action hero, but he’s not James T. Kirk. He doesn’t make jokes. He’s a serious dude. A stoic kinda guy. Very rigid, but with occasional moments of warmth. Intellectual, idealistic, moralistic. Where was that Picard in NEM? I don’t even recognize Patrick’s performance or the way the character is written in the film. Even during his broadest moments (think Trek IV and V), I always recognized James T. Kirk.
Logan’s “Nemesis” screenplay reads like bad fan fiction. The dialogue is mediocre, the action descriptions are terrible:
EXT. ENTERPRISE – SPACE
And the Enterprise jumps to high warp — disappearing in a
flash of dazzling light. Yes!
or:
HEAD
I have two arms and ten fingers.
Do you know where my arms are? I
cannot see where we are going.
Where are we going?
(Etc… like Threepio in
“Empire” when he’s
strapped to Chewbacca’s
back.)
@49
You think too much.
Good movies rely on good stories (the people are incidental), and Star Trek requires us to suspend our critical judgments because we are presented with stories about times, places and characters that are NOT REAL.
We do not turn to sci-fi to be immersed in matters about people. That is what DRAMA is for.
Womble,
No one debates the technical savvy that was used to make Nemesis. They spent over 80 million on it, it had better look good. The effects were standard, not ground breaking but par for the course, the sets were fine, costumes, ok.
However, all that is irrelevant when you have an engaging story. How many styrofoam rocks and shower curtains have we not only been subjected to but embraced during the original series’ run?
This movie was flawed at its very nucleus. It had a terrible script! An unimaginative, derivative, patchwork of previous elements. That, more than anything else is what led to the film’s demise.
Dark Trek had been done before and was very successful. Undiscovered Country and First Contact were darker entries into the series and were not only enjoyable films but turned a profit.
Your argument that people turned their backs on this film because Data died is completely specious. I mean, I understand, you’re a Nemesis apologist and there’s not much to work with there. But, maybe you should do a little more research before making such naive and patronizing proclamations.
Nemesis opened to poor advance word and only 5 days before Two Towers released. Towers was expected to be a holiday juggernaut and effectively crushed Trek following its subpar opening weekend.
Also, the reason why Nemesis is the worst Trek film (yes, more so than Final Frontier) from a business standpoint anyway, is that so far it is the only film in the series to lose money in its theatrical release.
1
Dave, that was a good analysis, thank you.
52,
Star Trek is a drama that happens to be set in space. To say that TWOK is not inherently a DRAMA is to sort of miss the point of the film. I think most of the WRITERS of Trek would be surprised to hear you say that their work has nothing to do with people.
Good stories come from interesting characters. Look at Shakespeare, for instance. Hamlet was a character study about a man’s thirst for revenge and his acceptance of death. The undiscovered country. Romeo and Juliet. Star-crossed lovers, doomed from the start. Their love too intense for the world. They die together. Those are just the most obvious examples. Drama without people, without characters is non-existent. What is drama without people? The interactions and conflicts between people, characters, is what makes drama DRAMATIC. Even the most absurd fantasy is about conflicts between characters (be they people, hobbits, dragons, dwarfs, etc). Yeah, Star Trek is not “real”, but neither is Citizen Kane, The 400 Blows, Rules of the Game, or any of the other great films. Contemporary dramas are not “real.” All drama is the same. It’s about people and characters. I think Ron Moore’s Galactica is a prime example of that.
I also take umbrage with the notion that I “think too much.” Drama is supposed to make you think, Star Trek in particular. If I wanted to think less, I would obsess over The Hills or something far less cerebral than Star Trek. I always imagined that Trek would encourage people to be critical, to analyze rather than the other way around. I appreciate your difference of opinion, but my amount of thought is just fine the way it is.
I should also add (because I am watching the movie while I cook dinner), that one of the few moments in INS that fans responded to and is generally looked at as positive was Geordi watching his first sunset on the Baku planet. Was that not a moment about people? About our heroes? About a moment of emotion?
Nemesis wasn’t the best Star Trek movie, but it wasn’t the worst either. What killed this movie and ultimately stalled the Star Trek movie franchise was that it came out at the wrong time. We’re talking about the winter of 2002, when Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, Die Another Day, and The Two Towers, among other movies, were all in the theaters playing at the same time as Nemesis was. Additionally, unless I’m wrong, I don’t recall seeing Nemesis being promoted from Jay Leno’s Tonight Show or The Late Show with David Letterman. Being promoted from these late shows might’ve made a difference or not. In either case, we will never know. From a financial standpoint, the competition killed Nemesis, and Paramount put the movie series on hold.
There’s nothing wrong with Trek V, other than Shatner was unable to shoot a satisfying ending. The rest of the film is huge fun.
Nemesis on the other hand is a huge bore that makes me want to tear my hair out.
#18 Jeff-
You said it better than anyone could EVER say it.
All I could think of while viewing Nemesis was, “why” and ultimately, “who the hell cares??”
I still can’t believe Patrick Stewart was involved with script approval.
Was he on crack?
For sheer entertainment, I’ll take TFF any day.
And I’ll support Frakes’ statement that Insurrection was a wonderful film.
It was MEANT to be lightweight. Marina said that the cast had the best time making that film, and it showed.
The highpoint of the film:
“I’ve dissolved the Senate.”
It was all downhill from there.
nemesis is by far the worst of all the films if for no other reason than the entire story was based on cherry-picking what was thought to be great moments in trek films prior!
it’s basically a horribly bad version of star trek II, only the villain was a complete waste of imagination. shinzon’s entire story, existence, and revenge plot was a complete disaster. a joke. data’s death had no emotional punch, nothing like spock’s.
at least in ST:V, no matter how bland or bad you think it was, the story itself was not such a lame attempt at going where Trek had gone before (in the movies. of course they debunked gods several times in ST series.)
it’s like the producers/writers/paramount suits screened star trek 2, got really drunk, and wrote Nemesis on a cocktail napkin. “trek 2 was great because it had a great villain and a main character death. so, let’s give picard this awesome clone who hates him and let’s kill off data!”
Here are some lowlights….
- the ONLY Romulan storyline that could possibly matter after TNG was what happened after Spock’s unification efforts. there was SO MUCH untapped potential there! this shinzon thing was a feeble attempt at creating a new Khan.
- brent spiner looked too old to play data. he looked nothing like an android that couldn’t age.
- the entire B4 plot line was an INSULT to ST:TNG. We already covered this ground with the Lore stories….
- Riker and Troi in bed? ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? 20 years too late for THAT!
- Shinzon was a terrible villain. he was truly unbelievable and did nothing to draw any sympathetic emotions from the audience. (why the hell didn’t the romulans just kill him when they abandoned their plot??? they should have, and logan should have, too.)
- Worf — i thought at the end of DS9 he became an ambassador. he had no real purpose in this movie nor was an any creative attempt made to write him in as the character deserved. nice job with the hangover scene..
- killing data was a terrible idea and very poorly executed. they wanted to recreate the power of spock’s death but failed miserably. that whole “personal transporter” thing was laughable.
- dune buggy = STUPID
Nemesis was an exciting movie. However, it was one of the worst productions of Star Trek I’ve ever seen. The script from start to finish made little sense, and departed from Star Trek in general and TNG is so many ways. They should have just let Jonathan Frakes direct the thing.
PS: 42% voted The Final Frontier? LOL, do the folks frequenting this website hate Shatner that much?!?!
Nemesis, to me, reinforces something I have long believed about film: it’s all about execution. Even a mediocre idea can turn into something watchable if all the pieces fit together.
61. vanedge – Great post, I would never have remembered all those aggravating things. Nemesis always seemed like it was the same actors as TNG but playing different characters or something. Like an out of body experience. A fairly accomplished director, an excellent and awarded writer, a seasoned production team, and fine actors. What happened? You almost don’t blame Data vaporizing himself.
The worst Trek film? There’s been quite a few! TSFS sucks for a retarded idea just to bring Nimoy back. And destroying the Enterprise….sacriledge….IV was a great film just not a Trek film, TFF was a Trek parody a la Monty Python, Insurrection and Nemesis were just extended TV shows. No, the worst Trek film for me is still TWOK….from the heartfelt, artful, intelligent “Wise”, TMP….Paramount dumped Roddenberry the Goose that CREATED the Golden Egg, and put in The Six Million Dollar’s Harve Bennet in charge. So, we get totally out-of-character moments (Spock would never command a starship as established in TOS), British Army Uniforms circa 1890, minus the Bearskin busbies, spacecadets on the Bridge, a female Vulcan with a male name (and no Vulcan eyebrows), and a wonderful three-dimensional antagonist replete with social commentary relegated to a two dimensional villian out for revenge. Woo hoo! A real stinker that still leaves me as disgusted 26 years later as the day I saw it for the first and only time in the theatres.
But, have no fear, with JJ Abrams about to make a $150 Million manga comic version of TOS, rather than delivering something new, TWOKmay get a replacement real soon.
Savour Season Four of Battlestar Galactica and may Ron Moore someday sit in Gene Roddenberry’s seat and do Trek the way it’s creator intended.
I liked Nemesis, didn’t know why people hated it so much. The story really wasn’t that bad. The only problem was that the director didn’t know sh*t about Star Trek or how to make a Trek movie.
I like all of Logan’s work, and Nemesis’ story is no exception.
As an addendum to my previous post, I would like to site TFF as a film that could have been great if circumstances had been different. In Shatner’s defense, there were so many problems with the production that were beyond his control: a writers’ strike, budgetary issues with the studio, and not being able to get top-quality effects, primarily the first two. Besides, it wasn’t the first time someone tried to introduce a high-concept premise like the pursuit of God into Star Trek (wasn’t that essentially V’Ger’s goal in TMP?).
Nemesis was marginally better than Insurrection, which was truly horrible, but it was still an awful and pale attempt at remaking TWOK with the TNG characters. But I think the movie ultimately because *the* flop of the franchise because, at the time it was released, the general audience was just tired and burned out on the same bland, paint-by-numbers entertainment that Star Trek had slowly slid into. By that point, it all looked the same, sounded the same, and eventually ended up in the same place, and most people had ceased to care (to the extent they ever did).
Just read the Nemesis script, has better continuity than the final film- it explains where B4 came from, why Worf was back on the ship, also had Shinzon with hair!
That’s gonna be a hard sell, 65
I still think the beginning with the assassination of the Romulan Senate is very cool. But the wedding scene fell flat and the film never really recovered. I just never formed an emotional connection to the film. I just kind of sat there throught the whole thing.
Logan is an otherwise fine writer, but I think he forgot to take his fanboy hat off when he went to work on Trek.
@Dave
“Star Trek is a drama that happens to be set in space.”
Now you are being silly. A comedy is a drama that happens to be funny, right? A horror flick is a drama that just happens to be scary.
Star Trek relies on elements such as warp drive, transporters and non-human species; it is most certainly sci-fi, and you cannot change this by exploiting the English language.
You are free to agree/disagree about best/worst movie (that is the theme of these comments), but this is not the place to be needlessly verbose in an attempt to invent (or mask) angles to your logic.
All I really wanted to say is in #47. In hindsight, I should have just ignored your post, as it is doesn’t speak concisely to the parent article. But don’t be so offended: Thinking too much is a common fan distraction.
Writing too much can be a problem, too ;)
Happy holidays
I agree–#65 lay off the Tranya.
^Was that comment needlessly rude or am I just keerazy?
“Happy holidays” indeed.
BTW, and I will leave this issue with this final comment:
“Now you are being silly. A comedy is a drama that happens to be funny, right? A horror flick is a drama that just happens to be scary.”
Umm…no.
I didn’t say that?
A comedy is a comedy. A drama is a drama. One is serious, one is funny. And yet, a science fiction film can be funny or it can be serious. Science fiction is not defined by TONE, now is it? It is defined by settings, themes, and concepts. How can a sci-fi film not be considered dramatic?
And yes, these comments are egregiously off-topic. But my original comment certainly was. The article is about NEM, the script by John Logan and what was wrong with it. I feel like I explained how I felt about what was wrong with the movie. Now, we’re talking about other matters, but I can’t help but respond to ideas that seem false to me. If you want to tell me to shut up in your own special way (you think too much, you write too much), then so be it. I doubt any number of smilies can mask that fact.
The Nosferatu’s..er. Remans were bad. Shinzon was bad. Dune buggy was bad. In Trek V, Sybok was a bad, out-of-left-field idea and it was ham-strung by the studio. But Insurrection was the worst movie. It wasn’t even a good TNG episode. It could only have gotten worse if they had decided to make the plot about cooking casseroles.
As I’ve said B4 about Nemesis to some folks: Nemesis was a great idea but given to the wrong director, Frakes should have directed and instead of a clone of Picard they should have gone with Sela (IF whe was still alive and not killed off by someone) as Picard’s nemesis. Just my uneducated opinion though.
Nemesis = DULL. Not terrible in the way Star Trek V is…just BORING! And I agree wit those who said the cast looked tired. Logan’s story was INSIPID!
I had high hopes for Nemesis because I like the Logan-scripted Gladiator…and thought if Trek had some of that epic scope it would make for a good movie. But it really didn’t have epic scope…and the story was…well, I just could never get past it.
Plus, I hated the yellow lighting on the B9/Dune buggy planet. That was almost as bad as the horrible lighting in ten forward in Generations. What…was up…with THAT?
Horrible. And unlike Star Trek V, I can’t even watch it to laugh at it. It’s just unwatchable in my opinion. Like Jeff Bond said above, being dull is an unforgiveable sin.
#76, I agree…Insurrection is just as bad as Nemesis. So, because of that, I can’t jump on the “Jonathan Frakes could have saved Nemesis bandwagon”. Both films are unwatchable and I’ve only seen each one ONCE — in the theater when it came out.
I’d rather be waterboarded than forced to sit through either one of those ever again. I envy those who waited for DVD! lol!!!
I really don’t get the hate of Insurrection. I like it pretty close to the same as First Contact. The only Next Gen film that I think was truly sub-par was Generations, and that had to do with the fact that the film focused so much on Picard rather than the other Next Gen characters, and the fact that they killed off Kirk simply because they thought it probably should be done. I can only imagine how much better of a movie it would have been if the Shat would have simply refused to be involved with any movie that had a script that involved Kirk’s death. I’m pretty sure he wasn’t contractually obligated to be in it, and I’m reasonably convinced that he wasn’t hard up for the money at that time.
78, I imagine the lighting in Ten Forward had to do with the fact that they were so close to a rather bright Armagosa star. That yellow light was certainly logical in that instance, even if it wasn’t necessarily aesthetically pleasing to everyone.
And while I agree with Jeff Bond that NEM certainly was dull, I think the best of TNG was far from dull. At least from my perspective, and I will always be a TNG fan first and foremost (though I love TOS as well).
Insurrection is the worst Star Trek film IMO.
Final Frontier is the second worst.
Nemesis is the third.
The thing that pissed me off about Nemesis was it just
did not live up to the hype spewed by Spiner & Logan.
They acted like there was going to be all these great things
in the film for the fans. There was nothing IMO.
Tired old Data plot. Yes another Brother.
I know his Mom told him they’re were others,
but damn you don’thave to go there!
From what I’ve read the director was a ass to everyone
& it probably was no fun to make.
All the interviews with him he seemed like he could of
cared less about Star Trek.
Anyway wrong director or not, the script sucked for a Trek movie.
It maybe could have been ok tv episode.
Like Insurretion there we’re better stories in the original TNG tv show.
#82
The best TNG stories were from the TV show, not the movies. I like to think of the films as catching up with old friends rather than adding anything substantive to the Star Trek universe. I think that’s why so many fans avoided the movie when they learned that it was the last one and Data was doomed. Why spoil the memory of a great show for a plot twist that would forever remain unresolved? That was exactly the reason I avoided it for so long, but when I finally sat down and watched it from a truly objective point of view, I actually found myself liking it quite a bit.
Random thoughts:
- Insurrection was easily the worst of the Treks. Trek dares to take on the big issue of … plastic surgery abuse. Oooh. What a gripping story. To this day, it’s the only 1 of the features I’ve only watched once. Just a terrible waste of an opportunity, using up one of the films on that banal plot. Clearly demonstrated that Berman at that point thought the public would accept ANY paint by numbers tv episode they churned out.
- Star Trek V wasn’t that bad for the many reasons stated above. It was the least of the films with the original cast, but it had its strong points: the family moments between the Big Three, the sense of awe at discovering a strange new world, and whether you dislike the idea of the character or not, Laurence Luckinbill turned in a fine performance.
- I remember thinking at the time of watching Nemesis that it was a shame they weren’t doing something more EPIC with the Romulans, a story that could also include Leonard Nimoy as Spock. At the time I thought it inconceivable that I would ever see Spock again. Thank God that has changed! :)
I agree with #65. It is only with MINIMAL RELUCTANCE that I voted for STIII as the worst feature film.
BEST TO WORST
ST06 : Is superior to TWOK in almost every category that makes a sci-fi film “fun” to watch. Good pacing, dialoge, character performances and thrills.
ST02 : Would be ranked lower if not for RM.
ST04 : Gillian; and Scotty on the Mac computer.
ST08 : Pacing, tension and visuals.
ST01: For purely nostalgic reasons, I am compelled to rank this movie a bit too high.
ST05 : This is classic “TOS” trek on the big screen.
ST09 : Worf gets a HUGE pimple, and the outdoor scenes are gorgeous. [The problem with Insurrection is that there is little reason to hate the villian.]
ST07: The saucer crash sequence! And we get to see Kirk and Scotty in one final thrilling adventure (albeit a brief one).
ST10 : The death of Data is a downer, but was handled with much more tact and honor than was afforded to Kirk in ST Generations.
ST03 : The story is ridiculous… even in the Star Trek universe.
#84
Reducing the plot of Insurrection to daring to take on the big issue of … plastic surgery abuse really shows that you either need to watch that movie again or never paid attention to it in the first place. There was an actual plot that was relevant to Trek, despite the fact that some people can’t seem to see past the skin stretching aspect of the film.
#84 LOL!!!! “Plastic surgery abuse”…well, not quite…but it might as well have been. Insurrection was dull…and who cares about the stupid Son’a?
See, we’ve got two movies here with villains we CARE NOTHING ABOUT! You can’t have drama when the audience has no vested interest. Same thing with Soran…what’s to hate about Soran? He’s a crazy nutjob who wants to live in the Nexus and will do ANYTHING to get there.
So what? Let him go! LOL!!! Movie over.
That’s it in a nutshell: three TNG movies that generated zero, zip, nada interest or drama (at least for me). Now, had they had Tomalak or Sela (as others have said) at least THEN there would be some interest in the villain and thereby some kind of emotional investment. One thing about Trek is that two hours doesn’t allow enough time to develop a compelling villain that isn’t based — at least in some way — on something or someone from one of the episodes.
Oh…and I never said TNG was dull. The series was great, but the films in my opinion — save First Contact — were not. They were forgettable and unwatchable — unfortunately.
Ok, with regard to Generations, we did have Veridian III threatened by the Nexus ribbon…ok…but again…who cares? LOL!!! I don’t know nobody on Veridian III! Was Spock there? Was Veridian III a planet we’ve seen in the series? No.
So, who cares?
If Bajor or Betazed or Andor or some other well known Trek planet was at stake then we *might* have something…
6. I agree. At least with V I remember t well and to be honest there’s a lot about V I like, the releationship of the charactor’s basicly seen threw Shatner’s eyes, I like the opening shot of the guy digging the holes in the desert.
Buttom line, Nemesis was easy to forget, and clearly for a reason. What was the name of the film before? I actually can’t remember in this moment. I least I remember the plot of that one.
87. Agreed. The biggest if not the only reason why First Contact worked was the borg, ok they threw in an “Alien Queen” idea but it’s still the borg, it’s a pretty hard concept to screw up, god knows they’ve tried.
Still even in First Contact the borg could have been for frightening frankly. They’ll never be as scary as when they first apeared in that Q episode, and of course the two parter.
I think Nemesis would’ve been better had Frakes directed, say what you want about Insurrection but at least the actors seemed there.
Also, the Remans would’ve been scarier if their heads hadn’t been so big.
#85 – ST6 was OK, but a little too jokey in some spots: the Uhura/Klingon translation schtick, the Sherlock Holmes ancestor bit, the whole Klingon Hamlet thing was a little too far fetched IMO (why would a Klingon care about an old Earth play?).
ST3 wasn’t bad, the Genesis [planet was too stagey; Lloyd a little too hammy. Robin Curtis was a poor substitute for Kirstie Alley. ST3 was best when it focused on the characters: the Kirk/Sarek mind meld, the prison break scenes: Don’t call me Tiny, Uhura and Mr. Adventure. Kirk risking his career for Spock. Kirk’s reaction to David’s death: probably Shatner’s finest acting. The circumstances may have been incredible, but the characters and their actions were spot on.
ST2 is not perfect, but I think it is the best of the movies.
THe NetGeneration movies were a disappointment, even First Contact was just OK. #65, If ST2 was not true Star Trek, FC was even less so.
Nemesis was dull as far as the story went but the FX were top-end. The Scimitar vs Enterprise-E in the Bassan rift scene gets my blood going every time I see it.
some have agreed with me which proves to the oak tree outside that I am not crazy!
Tom hardy = tom hardy
Patrick stewart = Patrick stewart
Tom Hardy = Patrick Stewart? Not even close..
Nemesis had it’s micro-moments as well as insurrection and STV
but micro-moments dont add up to much
Haven’t read any disparaging remarks about IV, I guess it was the best one after all.
#26, you got it exactly right about ST V!! Even Uhura’s much-maligned fan dance pays homage to some of her character moments in TOS where she performs in the mess hall. Shatner knew star trek. Give him that. I’m not even sure the complaints about going to the “center of the universe” are even justified. I don’t think the ship goes to the center of the universe in this picture. I think the “great barrier” is a prison cell…
Anyway, so, I’m not really surprised by the debates about ST V and Nemesis, but I’m totally shocked by the negative reception for Insurrection. Wow. 3rd worst?
Problems with the Aryan paradise — Ok. Is someone suggesting there may not be an Aryan paradise anywhere in the universe? That the very notion is theoretically impossible? That as soon as you have a place with a lot of one race living together it reeks of hate? Ludicrous.
A villain without enough reason to hate him — Who needs these master-minds like Khan and God and Shinzon in every film. What about getting back to the basic human issues. Forget saving the universe for a second. Let’s try to understand what possible justification (in IX it was eternal youth) could have been enough for the early settlers to relocate the native Indians? This is trek picking at the little questions that aren’t flashy, but really do mean a whole lot.
It’s like an episode — let’s be honest with ourselves for a second. TNG was only really great on TV. Even the best-received of the movies is basically just a third part for The Best of Both Worlds. Xi was a long movie that had the same subtle, human feelings as the TV series, and that’s where TNG feels right. It might not be epic, but it was damn fun.
My point is, I was thrilled when I walked out of Insurrection. There was spirit to it — just as STV had spirit. What killed Nemesis was that it was trying to draw in a mainstream audience. Nemesis is the worst because it had not heart.
I saw “Nemesis” for the first time about two years ago, right after my last LOTR binge. The first time I saw the Remans, I kept thinking of Orcs, a whole *planet* full of Orcs. I guess Romulan Sauron got the Ring from Romulan Frodo.
And, oh, yeah; it sucked.
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#95
Go back to my comment on post #42. I think Trek IV was a throwaway since it’s set in the 1980s and lacked a lot of the imagination that we see in the other movies of the series.
96. TOS was after all just a TV show as well just like what you describe TNG being.
98. Yeah but most of the criticisms still seem to be aimed at every movie EXCEPT IV.
#90, I’m with ya! For me, those early Borg episodes — Q Who? and BOBW will never be beat. They’ve really diluted the whole Borg thing…
When I first heard details about Trek IV, I had serious concerns….I actually didn’t like what I was hearing about it. But, Nimoy is such a great director and the writers did such a damned good job with that script that, yeah, it’s one of my favorites.
Still, you can see the budget-saving aspects of the film by setting it in then “Present Day San Francisco”…that’s obvious. Normally that kind of clear budget conscious creative decision making would bother me, but again…hats off to Nimoy and the whole cast and crew for pulling it off.
With lesser talent behind and in front of the camera, the whole thing could have been a disaster.
in my eyes and heart, “STV” is the lowest of the low [sorry shat lovers;-] ]
it was the first time i ever felt like they didn’t get it…
shat could and should have made an epic and came away with a lower third walk through… snore…
because it should have been better, it is the worst of the films.
don’t ask me about the worst ep of TOS…
if paramount had given shatner more than a token budget, and didnt insist on writing ‘jokes’ into the script among other meddling, V would have been one of the best films in the bunch. it wasnt the shat, it was the suits that ruined V. too bad, too.
nemesis was just ridiculous, it was like a large scale practical joke on trek fans. between worf singing show tunes and picard driving around in a mad max dune buggy, to yet another data prototype, and killing off the character… ugh… dont get me started…
but everyone seems to forget how utterly awful insurrection was.
Nemesis was a virtual remake of TWOK…genetically engineered villian with a grudge against the captain….preparing for battle scene showing the crew loading torpedoes/charging phasers etc….battle in the system disrupting nebula…enterprise limping away from destruction as the science officer makes the ultimate sacrifice to save the ship.
Plus the ‘absent friends’ scene from Trek III was tacked on at the end…plus we learn that Data implanted his memory into B4 who now is showing signs of Datas personality! and what about Riker booting Ron Pearlman off the ledge?…i was expecting him to go ‘I…have had…enough of YOU!’
And dont forget Trek VI as well – the whole Romulans want peace thing – taken from the klingon peace stuff of VI..the end battle with the Ent and back up fighting a ship that can fire when cloaked..
nemesis was like a Trek greatest hits movie..or a greatest Rips movie…
Generations was a decent movie, but if they had not killed Kirk, I don’t think you would have heard much criticism for it. The special effects were very nice, and the Enterprise-D looked great, as did the “new” Enterprise-B. Data got to sing and curse! We saw Spot the cat, Butler the dog, and Picard actually got in a bare-knuckles brawl (although he lost to the pipsqueak from Clockwork Orange). There were bad Klingons, Stellar Cartography, Saucer separation, and Work cannot swim! I have railed on Generations because the Nexus concept was a bad one, with many inconsistencies. But was it any worse than Sha’Ka’Ree or the Whale Probe? The one problem I had with it was that the TNG finale All Good Things was 100 times better than the movie!
Insurrection, again, not a fantastic film, but it had all the right elements. I thought Donna Murphy was excellent and played off Picard very well. It was an all around nice movie, and not the worst. Was certainly a better “kiddie scifi” movie than The Phantom Menace, at 10% the cost.
Nemesis, I don’t know how to explain it, but only to say at least it was bad enough to prevent Logan and Spiner from doing a sequel (yes that was the original plan)!
Final Frontier was awesome, it was the movie which hooked me on Star Trek. If you find me a person who can say the same of Nemesis, let me know. If you ignore the stupid plot and inconsistencies of FF, and the miniscule budget it was given, and focus on the characters, it was still good.
Sorry, this not really on-topic with this thread, but it bugs me . . .
In message #26 it is said “The original series had Kirk’s evil twin from The Enemy Within sport scratches on one side of his face…then in another scene they appeared on the opposite side!!”
This gaffe gets reported all the time, but what is never mentioned is that the mistake was NOT made on the set. The film of these close-ups is simply “flipped” and shown “backwards.” This was a common occurrence on Star Trek (there was one on this weekend’s Return of the Archons) and it’s usually pretty noticeable when it’s Kirk because the part of his hair is suddenly on the wrong side. Viewers don’t notice it with the so-called “wrong-side scratches” because you can’t see much of Kirk’s hair in the close-up. These backwards shots could easily be fixed in the remastered episodes, but it doesn’t get done.
#86 … I know Insurrection was about more than plastic surgery. The problem is, the main plot regarding Picard and co. disregarding Starfleet’s orders and protecting those natives meant nothing, because by that point we’d already seen … Kirk and crew disobey Starfleet and risk it all to save Spock in III, Spock and Sulu disobey Starfleet to save Kirk and McCoy in VI, and even First Contact, where Data and Picard said, “To Hell with our orders” and joined the fight against the Borg. So by the time of Insurrection, when Picard was breaking the rules to save some boring people the audience didn’t care about, there was no drama in it.
This is really something that should’ve been obvious to the makers of that film. Instead of showing us something new, they showed us something we’d already seen done better! That’s what killed Nemesis too.
The whole Picard clone thing was stupid….not even close to being as good as Khan!
When I saw Nemesis for the first time, I was very dissapointed, as nearly everyone in the cinema this day (opening night in Germany). This are my personally observations:
1.) When they really spend out 80 million $, you don’t see it. Ok, some new design for the handphasers, new tricorders and that ridiculous buggy. But was that ALL? I’ve noticed, that they saved money on every corner. After the first two Star Wars prequeles the audience (me included) was awaiting something NEW for Star Trek, but they simply go on, where they ended with INS. I was very dissappointed about this.
2.) The plot. It may be Logans mistake, but I can’t deside that without reading the original script, but I’ve heard Spiner, Stewart and Baird had they fingers in it too. It was dull for the very beginning. The Romulan Senate was murdered, but WHY? And then Shinzon. He was never a really brute, hatefull dictator, nor was he a tactical genious (he just had a very advanced and powerfull ship) or was he a really mad man (like Logan’s Commodus in “Gladiator” for example). He was nothing more than a jelaous clone. Wow, what a menace… And the plot missed it, to make the audience clear, WHAT the menace was. That was only revealed when Shinzon captured Picard. Everything prior to that was just dull and not suspensefull at all. And there where to many plot holes as well. WHY the viceroy made telepathic attackes on Troi, just for example (not to mention the 29 decks and Worf back as tactical officer) Killing Data was just stuipid. They should never have done that. And WHERE ARE the Romulans? All dead, all quiet, only five lousy clowns left on Romulus?
3.) The directing and editing was much worse than the writing. When there should one person punished, than it should be Stuart Baird. He made one mistake after another. The biggest mistake was to take out nearly all character scenes of the ensemble and left only some of the Picard/Data-elements. The next big mistake was the “tone” of the movie. Was it a political thriller, a slower movie about old friends, an action movie? The tones varied from scene to scene and left a very uncomfortable feeling. And at last Baird was able to destroy every scene with potential surprise elements (buggy jumped over hill, trough the air and crashes in the shuttle, for example. But you know that this would happen, because Baird showed it in every detail). It was very clear Shinzon was the bad guy, so why Baird lost so much screentime to pretend he could be a good guy?
4.) The SVX are poor (only one exception). The ships look like CGI-ships in every moment. I’ve seen Nemesis and First Contact now severel times, bit the FC-Enterprise looks much better than the NEM-Enterprise. A Space Battle against a cloaked vessel is all but not impressive (except you do like they did in TUC). You see the huge starships the most time of a great distance, like tiny starfighters. No impressive visuals in the entire movie, except the crash. That was one SVX-shot really good made.
But i like still some elements of the movie. The wedding in the beginnig, the Valdore-design, most of Worfs reactions about the wedding and the Romulan Ale and I like the movie’s ending with B4. I think the B4-things are generally very funny (especially the cutted scenes where he is with Data in Ten Forward) and sad together. You see a beeing, that could be like Data, but it’s not capable of and don’t know it.
No, Nemesis is not a good movie, but the worst Star Trek movie is in my opinion TMP, when Roddenberry tried to make Star Trek like 2001.
Nemesis is really boring, Jeff Bond is right on with that. I think that Patrick Stewart and Brent Spinner needed to have such big story elements really hurt the story – both of which were pretty weak.
The directing was bad, sometimes a great editor does not make for a good director.
I actually feel bad for Rick Berman on this one. He had a lot of masters to make happy on this one. The fact that Brent and John Logan were dating during all of this could not not been easy and put him in a tight spot as to whom to your please, the writer & star or the film and the audience.
110 – “The fact that Brent and John Logan were dating during all of this could not not been easy”
Whoa!! Bonbshell !!-
That aint true…is it?
Remember…it’s never wrong to love, well maybe Man/Boy is little creepy.
But yes, it’s true. Not that there is anything wrong with that. It was more an observation that the star, or one of the two stars is evolved with the writer and together they have more power going to the producer and getting what they want out of the story.
If you were edit out all the scenes of the movie that did NOT have Patrick Stewart, Brent Spiner and the Shizon character, it would be the same movie. It was 75% them and I think the story suffered as a result.
As a Trek movie, Nemesis sucked.
As a stand alone movie, Nemesis sucked.
Lets face it: Nemesis sucked.
I went to Nemesis on opening day, really excited about the possibilities, and my first shock was seeing only 25-ish people in line (for the first showing). Plus it was raining. I don’t even know if the theater filled. I was happy to see my old TNG friends, but the moment where Shinzon walked down the stairs it pulled me out of the movie. I realized I was kinda bored (like someone above also noted). That’s never happened with a Trek movie before — the whole middle act was deadly dull. I loved the end battle, but hated Data’s death — mainly its similarity to Spock’s death, but also the fact that he doesn’t say a WORD to Geordi or Picard! At least the crew toasted him in the end, which was nice . . . more than Kirk got. I walked out of the theater on a downer, but generally liked it. But it sure didn’t hold up in repeat viewings.
Since everyone else above has pointed out the bad stuff, here’s what my wife had to say — mind you, she is a casual fan who loves the TOS movies and First Contact. She said Nemesis was an “ugly movie.”
This question goes out to Mr. Bailey………whenever any of the posts here criticize a writer, producer, director…..it seems to ring a bell that you would scold the poster for daring to admonish “the professionals”, almost as if the people working in Hollywood could do no wrong and nobody should question their “vision”…..thus, my question……
With an acclaimed screenwriter like John Logan penning Nemesis, in theory, it should have been a good movie…..but, it wasn’t. Does this demonstrate that even the so called “experts” of Hollywood can be as inept and misguided as the viewing public?
Was William Goldman right when he said that nobody in Hollywood knows anything? Doesn’t the whole thing seem to hint that there’s room for new talent out there that should be embraced and encouraged by the studios? :)
Yes, Nemesis sucked quite alarmigly!
TFF was better in my humble opinion. How could it not be, it has Kirk, Spock and Bones in it.
In my opinion, the problem that I had with the Next Generation movies, especially the last two – Insurrection and Nemesis, is that they didn’t feel epic at all to me. At least with Kirk and crew, each of the movies kind of
play into each other, at least starting with Wrath of Khan. There were big changes (Kirk’s son killed, Enterprise destroyed, Spock dies/returned, Klingons finally make peace) and things that affected the characters lives.
I didn’t really feel any of this in any of TNG movies, except for Generations & First Contact to a point (Picard’s brother’s family dies, Enterprise destroyed, Borg return, Picard defeats old nemesis). What killed it for me in the last two movies is that, as a friend of mine correctly described, the TNG movies turned out to be “glorified episodes”. The encountered a problem, took care of it, and moved on. Each of them are disconnected from each other like a TV show. While I thought the message to Nemesis was great, the story and casting was sub par.
#110, Brent is not gay. See link below…
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0564344/
Please don’t spread unfounded rumours about people…that’s not cool….
Mr Snuffleupacus,
Well, I have to admit that your link is very convincing and I just may be wrong on this front.
My point was not about whom he was sleeping with, just that when the star and the writer have that kind of relationship whether they are gay/straight/ whatever it puts a lot of pressure on the producer to make everyone happy. On Nemesis it seems it was trying to make them happy and we got a pretty bad film…which didn’t even beat “Two Weeks Notice” to be the #1 movie opening weekend, five days before Lord of The Rings opened
Mind you Tom Crusie, Slyester Stallon, John Travolta, not to mention Debbie Reynolds, Rock Hudson, Roddy McDowel all have or had the same type of proof about their relationships. I will have to check my facts closer next time.
Okay, as I see it, Mr. Logan really is one of the three people who really killed Trek with Nemesis. First, it was Logan’s awful script, which could have worked (maybe if he got some help from another writer- *cough*Nick Meyer*cough*), plus all the stupid moves on Berman’s part that lead to the third person who really killed Trek, Stuart Baird. Clearly the guy had no interest in doing a Star Trek film, but instead making a big giant action film set in space (which would have been great IF it hadn’t been billed as a Star Trek film). Sure, after seeing his work Baird would have been a great addition to the Star Trek crew- but as an editor, not a director. The guy’s one of my favourite editors- everything that he’s done from Superman to Casino Royale has been great, but he doesn’t know how to direct. Seems like I’m just bashing Baird, but it’s really the three of them- Johnny, Ricky and Stewie who are the reason’s why Trek is dead. But it could also be said that it’s because of the disaster of Nemesis that’s the reason why this new film is going in a new (and I think much better) direction that’ll leave us with plenty of more years in the future of Trek.
Let’s not forget that even if Nemesis was a terrific film, no one but hard core Trek fans were going to see it. The competition was stiff, and Paramount promoted the film for like a couple days. At one point, they strangely shifted from promoting the film (the early trailers looked really good) to hyping it as the last one for TNG. Those trailers were just pathetic.
As for the script, and the blame to John Logan……yeah, it wasn’t a good script. However, did he cast Tom Hardy, or create the Reman makeup, or kill Data? I’ve always viewed him as an unfortunate passenger in this.
That said, the battle at the end was really well done and I was quite riveted in my seat. I wasn’t bored though. Not like Star Wars Attack of the Clones, maybe the most boring movie I’ve had to sit through, or Star Wars Revenge of the Sith, where I actually fell asleep…….twice.
To those who think Star Trek V works as a good TOS episode, I think its all due to David Loughery the scriptwriter rather than Shatner.
I thought what I read of his prequel script also ot the characters right. I could easily see Shatner and Nimoy saying those lines even though they weren’t going to be in it.
Not Logan, but Stuart Baird killed Star Trek.
In all the deleted scenes there are some wonderful moments. Logan wrote these moments, so he can’t be blamed, but Baird cut them out and made of the last journey of the TNG crew an Actionmovie. Such a fool!
#26- I have to respectfully disagree with you on STV. It was indeed the absolute worst of the original Trek movies. I can see where casual Trek fans might see TMP as slow, or even boring, but it was a classic Star Trek storyline with some fantastic scenes (Vulcan, Klingon D-7 Battlecruisers, refit Enterprise closeup). TWOK is the greatest, with IV, III, TMP and VI rounding it out. I never felt the magic in TNG, nor in its movies, however, I did watch it all (albeit less enthusiastically than TOS). Nemesis was bad. So was Insurrection. Generations had a couple of nostalgic moments and a good battle scene, but the only hit of the series, to me, was First Contact.
Let’s get back to some real Star Trek, please…This may be blasphemous, but I actually would take ENT over any of the other spinoffs. The time period made the rawness of the show very believable, and it actually had the feel of a true Sci-fi adventure into the unknown, unlike the TNG-era spinoffs.
My dream for Star Trek is a new series, involving the TOS crew, perhaps in between TMP and TWOK, or in between TOS and TMP. Eventually, it could evolve into a show centered on Excelsior and then Enterprise-B.
I think my problem with the TNG movies is that after First Contact they seemed to have no idea how to progress the Data story. We had him facing emotions with equal parts joy and fear in Generations, then coming to grips with the more serious ramifications of having them in FC to essentially dropping the concept altogether in Insurrection – save a brief mention of ‘not taking it with him’ – to not even bothering to acknowledge it in Nemesis.
I find myself far less bothered by prop or set continuity (say, the Klingon Bridge changing so drastically between TSFS and TVH) than I am by story continuity. And the fact is that Paramount/The Writers/Rick Berman really dropped the ball when it came to that. It felt like every movie after FC simply started the characters off at square one with no real nod to the developments of previous stories.
#119, I suspect the actors you mentioned being gay and having a reason to cover it up might have something to do with their “action hero/megastar status”. However, in this day and age I can’t see why any actor would cover up their orientation — other than preservation of a certain image.
Being gay doesn’t have the stigma attached to it that it once did.
Spiner could be gay…who knows? I’m not certain it’s my business or anyone else’s who he chooses to sleep with. That’s between him, his wife and whatever dietie he believes in…
I hope he’s not since he has a child to consider.
#124, the problem with setting a series “in between” established eras of Trek history is that we know that whatever happens in such a series CANNOT be of any importance — or rather we would know how it must end. This was the problem with Enterprise as well.
To me, that automatically sucks the drama right out of such a premise…
I’d rather see either a reboot (and I am traditionally NOT a supporter of reboots) or a sequel series.
Getting back to Nemesis: Logan is only responsible for the stupid storyline for Nemesis. Baird (who I respect TREMENDOUSLY as an editor of films such as The Omen and Superman I & II) is to blame for the direction as the director.
Whatever wound up on film is his fault.
I’ve never read Logan’s original treatment for Nemesis…so I can only surmise what was in that. Logan professed to be a Star Trek fan — much the way Orci does — and at the time, that generated some hope that Nemesis MIGHT have been something good.
Unfortunately…and I don’t presume to guess how…the project got off track.
If Anthony is really in a “go-getter” mood, it would be cool if he could get Logan here to discuss the behind the scenes happenings with regard to the writing of Nemesis…;-)
Mr Snuffleupacus wrote (#78):
“I had high hopes for Nemesis because I like the Logan-scripted Gladiator…”
Interestingly, the script to “Gladiator” was not just the work of John Logan. In fact he was only one of three credited writers that were hired to work on the script. According to the Wikipedia entry on Gladiator (which has footnotes for the sources of this info):
“[John] Logan rewrote much of [original screenwriter David Franzoni's] first act, and made the decision to kill off Maximus’ family to increase the character’s motivation. With two weeks to go before filming, the actors still complained of problems with the script. [The third and final screenwriter] William Nicholson was brought to Shepperton Studios to make Maximus a more sensitive character, reworking his friendship with Juba and developed the afterlife thread in the film, saying “he did not want to see a film about a man who wanted to kill somebody.” David Franzoni was later brought back to revise the rewrites of Logan and Nicholson, and in the process gained a producer’s credit. When Nicholson was brought in, he started going back to Franzoni’s original scripts and putting certain scenes back in. Franzoni helped creatively-manage the rewrites and in the role of producer he defended his original script, and nagged to stay true to the original vision.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladiator_(2000_film)
#127- I guess that is a matter of opinion. I did not personally find that to be the problem with ENT at all. I thought limited access was (I did not get to see it regularly until it came out on DVD). I would love to see a young Gary Mitchell, Samuel Decker, etc. in a series. It would be good to see the voyages of NCC-1701 in between TMP and TWOK, or a Sulu commanded Excelsior series, or even an Enterprise-B series featuring Demorra Sulu and Capt. Harriman. There is plenty of room for fresh, new characters (and even some tie-ins with events/people in future/past series). I just like 23rd Century Trek better.
I chalk it up to the “no ILM = not very good or not successful” formula.
TMP: no ILM
II: ILM and considered the best Trek film
III: ILM, successful with a couple flaws, but in whole very good
IV: ILM & most popular Trek film
V: No ILM and the worst VFX of any Trek film (or any other films in that era)
VI: ILM & Nicholas Meyer resurrect the Trek film franchise
Generations: ILM – criticized somewhat, but succesful
First Contact: ILM, considered best TNG film
Insurrection: No ILM, criticized and downright hated by some fans
Nemesis: Digital Domain has the Enterprise leaving smoke trails, flops
JJ Abrams new film *is* using Industrial Light & Magic…so draw your own conclusions!
I don’t think the Nemezis is the worst tng movie. The Generations was that, and the Insurection has’t been better than the Nemezis.
#131- For the most part, I agree, except that I believe TMP WAS good and was certainly successful. I don’t think it crosses over well into mainstream, but since when do we care about that? First Contact was the ONLY TNG film I enjoyed at all, save a few brief moments in Generations.
It was the worst. Bad story, bad villain, bad cast. I am sorry, but Marina Sirtis, Gates McFadden, and Levar Burton are not big screen actors. Stewart can do it, Frakes is ok, and Spiner is ok…
I’m not saying that TOS actors are leagues ahead, but there is NO denying the chemistry of Kelley, Shatner, and Nimoy. Plus, in Ricardo Montalban, Christopher Lloyd, and Christopher Plummer – they had superior villains…
I don’t know what movie theater any of you Nemesis haters was in, but the one I was in there was gasps and applause finished with a standing ovation. From excellent story (though admittedly slow at times) and great action sequences came one hell of a ride. When the Enterprise actually rammed the Scimitar it was amazing! I had always wanted to see that, and here finally it was… and judging by the reactions of the crowd they had wanted to see it too.
The only real concessions I can give to the haters are; yes, B4 was kinda lame, the sex scene was kinda icky, and they could have got a better actor to play Shinzon…
But all in all, it was just what we needed to get the taste of that crappy Insurrection out of our mouths. I sat through that one wondering if it had been made for Hallmark or the Family Channel…. that supporting cast was like a Seventh Heaven episode….
Star Trek: Nemesis may have been the worst Star Trek film as far as financial performance figures go (and let’s be honest, that’s the ONLY reason why there was no follow-up in the shape of a TNG cast Star Trek XI) but it was certainly not the worst of the series in my opinion (in terms of overall appeal). Unfortunately I have to agree with some of you out there that the honour goes to Star Trek V. I love TOS, I love Shatner too and the way it turned out wasn’t his fault entirely. The writer’s strike and budget restrictions had a lot to do with it. Star Trek V is a fun, enjoyable “romp” and very much in the spirit of the original show but I think it tried a little too hard to live up to the high water mark, both financial and comedic, left by Star Trek IV and maybe pushed the gags one step too far. It’s biggest crimes in my opinion were 1) The terrible, awful (even ghastly!) special effects delivered by Bran Ferren & associates for the film which, after ILM’s usual 80’s magic had been worked on the previous 3 films, looked like they belonged on a YouTube mock-up, in fact I’ve seen BETTER effects on some fan-made projects, even though admittedly they are more recent and digital technology has advanced greatly since 1989, but still – they were far worse than what was achieved 10 years earlier for Star Trek: TMP in 1979! Secondly 2) Some of the character moments were ridiculous – when the mountain climber is revealed to be none other than the “Shat” himself at the beginning of the film I clearly remember some fellow cinema-goers laughing out loud at the implausibility, plus a whole scene/set being created just so Scotty could bang his head??….please….and as for the “naked” Uhura dance sequence…well, enough said. It felt it an over-exploitation of the characters we know and love and, ultimately, unnecessary. As far as TNG movies go I’m afraid Insurrection takes the prize for the worst of the bunch – and not that “worst” really means bad, more that it just felt like a T.V. movie, an extended episode – that also borrowed heavily from previous TNG plots (Who Watches the Watchers?, Journey’s End etc). Nemesis may have been slow in parts, borrowed heavily from The Wrath of Khan, had some un-characteristic character moments/dialogue and a few plot holes but the “worst” Trek movie as an overall experience? far from it. Hopefully the new JJ Abrams Star Trek film will re-invigorate the franchise but, in my humble opinion, they should have gone with a really well scripted DS9 movie years ago to reward the fans (and the DS9 cast) with a final big screen outing the show truly deserved which will now, sadly, never happen. Live Long & Prosper!