to do so be a direct violation of the temperal prime directive.
request denied.

the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

What kills me about all this ‘No one remembers Generations/It’s a minor canon obstacle’ talk, is that Kirk’s death is being treated like a throwaway reference. This isn’t as simple as ‘Oh, the Enterprise suddenly has 29 decks instead or 26′ or ‘Spock has a half-brother no one ever mentioned’.

I mean, good lord, the character DIED. It was a huge media event at the time! Patrick Stewart and Wiliam Shatner were on the cover of f&*king Time magazine for god’s sake! They both were appearing on every nightime talk show from Leno to Letterman to talk about the fact that he was killing the character. TV Guide released a special Trek issue. Dozens of other mainstream publications were dedicating prime space to the movie/Trek in general. Trek was probably at the peak of it’s popularity with the general public at the time. Believe me, people DO remember he died.

I think it’s with that in mind that Orci says they have to take special care in how they bring the character in, if they do at all.

And on a personal note, all of my friends who are NOT ST fans happen to name Generations as one of their favorite ST movies. People remember it, even if we fans sometimes try to forget it ;)

The whole Shatner debate is so old and pointless and I honestly think having him in it would be detrimental to the film’s quality, in terms of storyline.

Again, you are incorrect. To reiterate, based on their last high-profile work–Transformers–it would be a stretch for anyone to think the ST project would illustrate a significant difference in qualiy, no matter the demands of the material. That is a fair assessment.

“You are here enough to have read the other quotes as well. This isn’t just for new fans, but old as well. ”

But we cannot ignore something as telling as the statement “its not your daddy’s Star Trek.” There’s no other way to read that, other than TPB making an effort to cater to a new generation–a new taste, as in the case of the new Battlestar Galactica.

“He had the power to say no to the script. And while Kirk’s death could have been written in as a line, that’s highly doubtful. Kirk saved or helped save two Enterprises and countless lives in that movie. He was a big par of it, not a throwaway line.”

Considering how facts, continuity, character personalities and other issues have been handled/changed over the Berman years (examples: Zefram Cochrane in First Contact, many elements of Enterprise) of major and minor positions in stories, Kirk’s death could have been mentioned.

“you don’t sway me..I don’t sway you”

Well, that we can agree on with no doubt.

Two scenario’s exist.

1/ Shatner will be in this film in a cameo at the end (that will film in March) and they want to keep this quiet because it is a major plot point.

2/ Shatner is not in and they never wanted him. All the Shatner talk was a way to create plausible deniability to keep the Shatner/Kirk fans engaged + at least show they tried to get Shatner involved.

I am 99% convinced the Shatner issue has been already decided one way or the other. I can’t believe they would go into a $150 million dollar project and not know what direction they want to go in the the most popular Star Trek celebrity + the face of the franchise.

As a fan of Kirk who I take heart in the fact that they have not publicly ruled him out even at this late date. If they had zero interest in him they would simply have said it by now.

Please give Kirk the ending he deserves.

True, Roddenberry created Kirk, but it was Shatner’s convincing portrayal that was responsible for Kirk’s high recognition value, for him becoming a cultural heritage. It would be coherent to reason that because Kirk has become an archetype and Shatner has been the only person so far portraying him.

As for his pre-Trek career, I’d call receiving the Most Promising Actor Award, already having a seven-year contract by 20th Century Fox, a movie-debut in the Brothers Karamazov and the starring-role in The World of Suzie Wong quite promising. After Star Trek, he, like all other Trek actors had the typecasting problem, which he, unlike most of his fellow actors, successfully managed to overcome; most recently with his role as Denny Crane.

Anyway, I don’t think it makes much sense to have another lap of that discussion – all of this has been said numerous times before. But it should be made clear that your truth isn’t necessarily THE truth but rather your opinion which, I said it before, your are perfectly entitled to.

Re: 242. Litenbug – December 20, 2007
“The character is dead and I don’t think we can stretch the incredible any further with ANOTHER “Raising of the Dead” even if this is “SciFi”.

CG-”That’s the point; TALENTED sci-fi writers–or writers who happen to pen sci-fi for the occasion can make the impossible seem possible. That’s how great sci-fi works. Anything less speaks to the failings of the writers, not the plausibility of the story.”
We spoke of fresh faces and who the target audience is
Litenbug.-“They need and want both new and old fans. Lindelof has stated that.”

CG-”He say that but the stand out comment: “its not your daddy’s Star Trek” part. That suggests new, uninitiated fans are the focus, instead of trying to recapture all of the faceless legions who abandoned the franchise.”

You are here enough to have read the other quotes as well. This isn’t just for new fans, but old as well.

You mentioned “Recasting is not the issue, as they are going into the past. Failing to ignore that which helped destroy the franchise, then using Nimoy, but finding no place for Shatner is the issue. Again, serious talents whether they write sci-fi for the task, or are seasoned sci-fi writers, can come up with anything…but holding on to a terrible part of canon makes no sense.”
That terrible part of canon you mention…I assume is the death of Kirk, by Shatner’s hand. He had the power to say no to the script. And while Kirk’s death could have been written in as a line, that’s highly doubtful. Kirk saved or helped save two Enterprises and countless lives in that movie. He was a big par of it, not a throwaway line.
But now, he’s dead. We will see if Shatner is once again brought back, although from what I’ve heard..again, doubtful.
The rest is opinion…you don’t sway me..I don’t sway you