Playmates Prototypes Provide Clues To New Star Trek Uniforms January 30, 2008
by John Tenuto , Filed under: Star Trek (2009 film), Toys , trackback
Earlier this week, TrekMovie.com broke the news that Playmates Toys was granted the toy license the new Star Trek film. Now a new article from one of the Internet’s most popular collecting websites, Action-Figure.com, not only confirms the Trekmovie.com news, but also gives details on some of the first prototypes being shown off at UK ToyFair which kicked off today.
According to Action-Figure.com, Playmates was showing off prototypes of three different lines: 4″, 6″ and somewhere between 9″ and 12″ versions (approximated). There are also interactive playsets, including the Enterprise bridge and transporter room scaled for the 4″ action figures. These sounds similar to Playmates Enterprise D Bridge and transporter playsets from the 90s, which featured authentic sounds and visual effects.
Playmates was showing off figures for Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, and (probably) Uhura as well as one that “looked like Sarek” (more likely Nimoy’s older Spock). The larger action figures have cloth costumes. Articulation or exact scale details were not available from the prototypes.
TOS-like uniforms
Action-Figure.com’s description of the action figures’ Starfleet costumes is that they are “very similar to the designs of the original.” Trekmovie.com has received similar reports of the actual costumes, which apparently bear strong connections to The Original Series era uniforms.
The New York Toy Fair (opening February 17th) may provide more details about the Playmates Toys upcoming Star Trek line. For more goto action-figure.com
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Comments»
first, nice
Let the image leakage begin!
Hmmm….a Lt. Uhura doll. Nice :-)
good to know that the will look similar
Cool. I look forward to seeing them.
Of course, let’s keep in mind what happened with the “Generations” action figures. They produced them with the uniforms that the movie didn’t use.
umm how about the 5 foot inflatable model for Uhura?
I certainly hope the uniforms are very similar to the TOS ones. I’m gonna be pissed if they screw them up.
Guardian…. what did the story say?
Skirts for the ladies?
Yes, if the starfleet uniforms aren’t canon, I am boycotting the film!
-wink-
hahahahahaha!
I wonder if they are using the same head from the Unification Spock figure from 1993 for the old Spock now?
I can’t believe JJ Abrams didn’t invite Shatner to be a Kirk figure. Doesn’t he know Shatner IS Kirk figures?
13. Green-blooded-bastard – January 30, 2008
Shatner isn’t the subject.
#8. The Guardian of Forever -
If you were really the Guardian, you would know what they looked like on ALL time lines.
Riverside,
I think it was fairly obvious that Green-blooded-bastard was being sarcastic.
When describing the uniforms as being similar to the original series – they could have been thinking of the original characters in the movies (ST II-VI).
In which case, they would look very similar to the leaked red “bellhop” uniforms.
The biggest hint, to me, was James Cawley’s reactions to the movie set and costumes. The sets were (paraphrasing) “not what (he) would have done” but the costumes were “perfect”.
#7 LOL and EWWW!!
I want an official costume pic from TPTB at Paramount. Now.
Please?
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
Yea I knew it.
Hmm… leaks leads us to believe there is a reboot on the looks. Wouldn’t it be exciting that most of it wouId be the same? Only that the looks are updated. That would be a pleasant surprise at the theater. It may even bring a tear. If this is true, I would rather wait to see them. No leaks please.
#17
NOOOO! No more Royal Canadian Mounted Police in space anymore, please!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
The old playmates line is woefully outdated by modern figure standards, so I hope they spent some time on better casting/molding techniques.
#22. The Vulcanista -
LMAO that’s great! RCMP in Space!
That’s it! Shatner is Canadian. He could be the new Sgt. Preston.
By the way, the offer is always open! (Especially for a fine Southern Lady such as yourself). LOL
Oh how nice it will be to restart the 4″ figure collection again and it’s finally about time for a new bridge playset, although being 15 years later I don’t expect to be playing with it….that much ;-) i was disappointed they never did an E-bridge set, or Defiant, Voyager, etc…the D-bridge was great. Having Playmates release movie-related products….it just makes Star Trek movies right again….and as much as I’m dying to see the movie uniform, I think waiting is worth it
#24
Are you the one who proposed marriage a while ago? Why, sir, you *are* kind!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#26
Yes’m it’s me.
There were just too many Michael’s posting, so I had to add a little backstory.
I’ve been here since the beginning, and very much appreciate the humorous attitude of MOST of the regulars.
Ah well, if it’s not a slavish rehash of absolutely everything then they probably should update the uniforms too. I’d prefer maybe toning down the colours a little and adding some detail rather than a whole new line of Jean Paul Gaultier see through plastic jobs mind you.
Be honest, even in that great Enterprise episode, the uniforms did look, well, a tead over vivid? and even (whispers) a little out of place compared to everything else?
If it’s cloth then we at least know they don’t wear kevlar body armour – Starfleet Marine style. Talking of which, since I’ve probably dissed the original uniforms, I’m off to put mine on right now…
#22 “NOOOO! No more Royal Canadian Mounted Police in space anymore, please!”
Wow, seems like I am not the only one disliking the uniforms from ST II-VI.
re: 28 trekee
“Be honest, even in that great Enterprise episode, the uniforms did look, well, a tead over vivid? and even (whispers) a little out of place compared to everything else?”
What looked out of place WAS the “everything else”
A figure that “looks like” Sarek… GROAN!!!
Here we go again – Playmates action figure lines have always been PATHETICALLY inaccurate.
Yeah, this one sorta looks like Picard… and yeah… by the suit alone, you can sorta tell this one’s Data… GROAN again.
Paramount should have struck a deal allowing AA to provide the casts and Paramount to do the mass production, marketing, retail channels, etc.
Just my 10 cents’ worth…
I couldnt care less if the uniforms dont look anything like the TOS ones, considering how often Starfleet changes fashions. If they’re similar, great, if they’re not, I hope there’s no crying around here…
messing with too much of the “design” of TOS in this movie I think would put off even the casual viewer of original Star Trek. I am not on a tirraid about purrity to the last detail, but, keep most of it please. I already have a refrence point for this era of star trek, don’t completly obliterate for me, please.
Of course, it’s too late now for that comment to be of any use to the movie makers. Oh well, just a rant from a fan who cares.
well james cawley says theyre perfect, so well see
is there a possibility of photos from one of these toyfairs? i wanna see them now!!!
oh,, and the reason the generations uniforms werent used apparantly they all got stolen .
10 schmedeman: Skirts for the ladies?
Yeah, let’s say ladies are allowed to work on the bridge or elsewhere before they get married. But they have to wear skirts, so that they attract men to marry them. Each gender has to have its specific role and look.
Where are we? Back in the 50s or 60s? lol
Only because it’s “canon”, or the illusion that people form to a canon, that does not mean we have to countermand major advancements of OUR time… ;)
For the movie to work, it’s sufficent to let the interpretation be possible that it is all still happening in the same old universe and timeline. The rest is done by the viewer. The canon only exists in our minds. Or have you ever seen a real canon in the movies? It’s full of errors. Only because the viewer wants it all to be coherent, it seems to exist. Of course some filmmakers make the interpretation easy, some make it more difficult. As long as JJ doesn’t make it utterly implausible, it should work.
#6
You cannot blame Playtmates Toys for the costumes. The decision was made after costumes were made that too many changes were in the film and the action figures could not be changed. Eventually, they did offer fans the proper costumes. It is unlikely this would happen with this film.
#17
As the article indicates, the uniforms are from the television show era.
#31
The article linked to from Action-Figure.com notes the reason for the inability to get some details was these figures are in prototype form. This means there is likely no painting, think of a brightly colored statue of 4″ scale shown on the stage to the audience. It doesn’t mean the sculpts are bad.
If fans like to see what a prototype looks like, check out WilliamShatner.com’s store where they sell from DST’s Kirk action figure prototype. This prototype is closer to production than the Playmates Toys would be and even this is difficult to see much detail. The actual toy is very detailed, yet the prototype isn’t.
While this is merely opinion, Playmates Toys 9″ and 12″ lines were incredibly detailed and accurate to us. The 4.5 ” Star Trek line was superior to those of Hasbro’s Star Wars figures at the time. You cannot compare 2008 toy technology with 1994. Isn’t it fair to wait to see what they make for the feature film? They might be great, they might be dissapointing. Then, Christmas 2008, fans could buy the toys or get other collectibles. The nice thing is we will be able to make that determination at retail stores instead of niche online sites.
Thanks for the reply, although we disagree.
#34
Larry Nemecek provides the history of the costume changes of the film, including talking about the popularity of the Playmates Toys, in Star Trek The Next Generation Companion. It was a decision made by Rick Berman near filming to utilize the TNG and DS9 costumes, although maybe they were stolen later by someone named Christie!
FInally a surefire way to get my 7-yr old hyped for TREK. Toys wil do it every time!! LOL.
Speaking as a former military man myself I always preferred the movie era uniforms to TOS uniforms. The movie era were far more miitary to me, and actually had that feel to them not so much the pajama party feeling to the TOS. Of course it should be no surprise that I’ve dressed as TOS era Kirk for halloween many many times. LOL.
Either way my little one and myself are getting very excited!!
SEMPER FI
Nice to hear that they will be making the larger size figures with cloth costumes. I never liked the short squatty ones but some of the 9″ figures were very nice.
And with Cawley’s report and now this, it looks like those non-fans of the 60’s “look” , will actually get their chance to “laugh those cheesy uniforms off the screen!!”. Ot at least try to…without getting popcorn tossed on their head by the rest of the audience who are loving it!
A little bit off-topic, but has there ever been footage on the web or elsewhere of the actors wearing the original Generations-uniforms? Personally, I thought they were not that bad. A nice step into the direction of TOS-Movie-Uniforms (although one might argue that they seem to predate the TNG uniforms in terms of design-lineage)
#42
I don’t think they ever filmed with them, but there are designs shown of the characters in The Art of Star Trek. Check out Trekcore.com for more details about the deleted scenes of the feature films.
It’s worth bearing in mind that the reporter doesn’t seem to be a big Star Trek fan. I don’t mean he doesn’t like it – I’m just saying he has about the normal amount of awareness of the franchise as the average person.
I just mean that the ‘looks like Sarek’ doesn’t really mean that the sculpt is bad quality. It’s a comment from someone who hasn’t been following the development of the movie so probably doesn’t even know Old Spock is in the movie. Assuming a figure of an older Vulcan in, presumably, robes is Spock’s father would be a natural assumption. If it looked a bit like Leonard Nimoy, even more so.
This article was eye candy just for the interactive playsets part alone!
It is impressive having the uniforms so similar! Very pleasing to me.
–Manrum
If the uniforms are to be perfect for this film, they’ll inevitably have to be different from the inimitable original.
#19
I am with you …we need a pic of the uniforms…now…pretty please?
@22 Hey Vulcanista – we Canadians are proud of our Mounties!
Seriously this sounds very promising. Between this article and Cawley’s feedback it sounds like the costumes will be at least… recognizable.
I better start saving. I’m probably going to buy toys again for the first time in 15 years…
If my wife lets me…
I would like to see jackets like in the Cage, worn over the TOS style tunics. It would provide a link between Pike’s era, TWOK uniforms, and make the new TOS era uniforms seem neater,
I mean, how cool would it be to see Kirk and Spock and the rest in uniforms that reminded one of TWOK style, but with a Pike-era look, over TOS shirts? A great hybrid look that unites the old and the new.
I always thought the outfits the crew wore in STTMP made them look like dental hygenists – ESPECIALLY Kirk. Next time you watch the Motionless Picture, pay attention. “Paging Doctor Kirk… paging Doctor Kirk…”
Look at that – toy prototypes get shown around, and info starts leaking. Images will be next.
Who’d have thought? :lol:
Keep in mind, the “prototypes” may have been a rush job for the Toyfair. They may have just used the TOS uniforms for their iconic look.
Also since the movie is so epic. It will cover different timeframes and be pre-TOS, the classic syle uniforms may not get much screentime.
Pirates of the Carribean was good at keeping with canon.
And yes, I’m really going to miss posting anonymously when they put out real forums. Guess I’ll get this in one last time as well, just in case someone wishes Matt was Kirk again.
+1. Matt – January 31, 2008
http://www.moviewavs.com/0058536645/MP3S/Movies/Team_America_World_Police/mattdamon2.mp3
I guess you meant Pirates of the Carribean was good at keeping with “cannons”.
Aargh!
I still have the CmdR doll from Generations, that has braid on the sleeves and other minor mistakes in the uniform. Cool stuff.
I just really hope that they will tone down the colours and possibly make them darker because seriously, we’re not in the 60’s anymore. I’m all for keeping the design itself though. But mini-skirts for the women? I certainly hope not.
A 12″ inch action figure of Bones would be so cool! :D
#57 Arrrrr…. Pirates? Whar?
Ya know the grand thing about the TOS uniforms was that security was in bright red… as if being so ballsy to say “Go ahead- try ta shoot me. Here I be.”
I liked the Santy Claus uniforms of the movies. But being true a military organization, Starfleet would not use bright colors… it be all tan and white and blue in the Navy…well, occassionally ya wore the red if you were aboard in the 1850s…made it easier for sharks to spot ya…
But Canadians! Ugh! They be our red-headed stepchildren fer sure…
(that be just funnin’… dunna want Prime Minister Harper and Michael J. Fox to come after me… Shatner be as American now as… well… Kentucky horsies.)
Sorry- What was the topic? Cannons? Arrrrr….
#55 last o’ the timelords
You make a good point about screentime, but if this Movie features even a little of that TOS costume design sensibility then it will be all the better in my book.
It looks like they’ve already screwed up the exterior of the E, so why should uniforms be any different?
This all sounds well and good, but no scaled Enterprise model with lights and phaser fx? :(
Surely, there HAS to be one, they just didnt have time to prototype it, right? Right? *goes off and starts crying*
I have to say – I’m one of those who is all for JJ’s vision, updates and redesigns of sets and such to fit in to a more realistic world. So I have to say reports that uniforms bear resemblance to the original series uniforms makes me shudder. The same way I would if I heard they were making a TNG movie in those horrid jumpsuits.
Hard not to agree that the functional uniforms from ENT were probably the most realistic and proabable costumes for a crew of explorers headed to SPACE!!! Those TOS costumes were rediculous then and even more so now.
Not to mention DS9 and ENT epidodes featuring TOS era uniforms have made them the punchline of too many a joke.
These are the little details that keep Star Trek from becoming mainstream, and why many casual fans finally give up. Star Trek may be fantasy, but it’s rooted in the history and fabric of our society and technology and has to maintain believeability in that context.
So, if I see anything that resebles brightly-colored long sleeve t-shirts and knee-high, pointed toe boots – I’m gonna be pissed.
I would be even more excited to see new creative minds take the original series stories and apply present-day sensabilities, politics, etc. Maybe approach it like the stories in Star Wars Infinities comics. Same universe, same characters, same story, but one action changes the outcome.
And Darth Vader’s costume isn’t hokey, or stormtroopers, or???? Hmmm…how about the fact that James Bond always wears a tux. Or Batman’s costume. Most consider those things mainstream. People throwing a fit about TOS style uniforms and saying that is what drives fans away is just plain silly. They are just looking for an excuse to leave, then. Stories are what matter, not uniforms, special effects, etc. Those things are just the frosting for the cake (or “sauce for the goose”, as Spock likes to say).
I think you’re going to see more realistic versions of TOS uniforms, but with a rooting in reality (so far, that’s what the look and feel of this movie conveys, from the teaser trailer and the glimpse of the Bridge in the Abrams pic – futuristic and advanced, yes, but quite conceivable in a logical progression).
JJ and Orcster have done a great job being extremely secretive on set and with respect to leaks. You all realize that it will be all in vain as soon as we start seeing all the toys, merchandising , Star Trek mountain dew bottles featuring the new E, ect. All the stuff they were covering in trenchcoats (or at least most of it) will be spoiled in the next month.
#40–As a combat veteran Marine myself, I second your “Semper Fi”, and add an “Oorah”, but I have to disagree. One of the things Mr. Roddenberry disapproved of in the original movies was the “militarization” of Star Fleet. The uniforms, along with Dr. David Marcus’ labeling of Star Fleet as “the military”, were a large part of that. Unfortunately, he left this Earth on an even more sour note in that regard. STVI went too far in that “militarization”, and one of his last public comments was about how much he hated it. To revisit his utopian 23rd Century Federation, I think it is important to re-emphasis that Star Fleet is the UFP’s exploration arm, first and foremost. While I support most efforts to “modernize” this film’s journey back, I feel that the uniforms would be an appropriate nod to Gene’s post- war vision(born out of the many horrors his generation witnessed man perpetrating) of mankind’s wonderous future in space exploration. It is a simple gesture, but maybe it can begin to help correct one of the great injustices done to Gene’s Star Trek. Of course, that’s just my not-so-humble, but optimistic, opinion.
Lucas was smart enough to set Vader and Stormtroopers in “a galaxy far, far away” to avoid any and all convention. So I’m already past that shit before the opening credits are even finished rolling.
The foundation of any Star Trek story (which you say is all important) is that it takes place in our universe, in the future of present day earth and all of it’s historical context. That’s how Roddenberry set it up, and there is no denying it.
I hear your argument loud and clear JimJ. I’m just the type of guy who wants icing so great that you could eat it straight from the bowl…but because the icing is so much better in concert with the cake that you wait until the two come together for peak enjoyment. One without the other, just doesn’t cut it.
67.
They can allways say that it was the plan from the begining. XD
But I’m sure they know preety well how that works. They may have some kind of control over that. Yet, JJ told us that we where going to see the whole E soon, maybe he said so because of merchandising previews.
The STII-VI always looked like such overkill, and the stupid doorman red-burgundy color choice just makes it worse.
How would you like to sit around in a formal uniform EVERY day, ALL day even though you’re on a climate-controlled starship? That’s where the TMP uniforms make the most sense, if you really think about it.
If Cawley thinks the new ones look good, that’s enough for me. And color-coding makes sense. They use it on carrier decks to differentiate personell.
I was always partial the the ENT uniforms. I was hoping it would be something between ENT and TOS
Nobody’s asked the most important questions of all…When do the new action figures become available to us mortals?
I believe that having uniforms with a resemblance to the original series uniforms would provide a nice contrast to the new Enterprise.
Subtle tweaking could take the basic idea for those uniforms and make them more in line with the reported epic scale of the movie.
We need a balance between the original series; basically keeping what would work on the big screen, but not straying too far from what Star Trek is.
Uniforms as described here might be a good example of that.
I suspect that they will be different, perhaps more believable, but still in general keeping with the original series.
If they take The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before as partial guides, I think this could be done well.
Speculating is so much fun, but of course, the make or break will come when the film is released. Or publicity shots ;-)
#65
“Stories are what matter, not uniforms, special effects, etc.”
EXACTLY. THANK YOU.
Well, if the “Master Purist “James Cawley approved of the uniforms, I’m actually feeling pretty optimistic about them. Probably the only aspect of this movie that sounds like it’s going to be okay.
Given the iron curtain of secrecy surrounding practically every aspect of the film, I’m surprised they even showed prototypes ay the UK Toy Fair. There’s certainly precedent for high profile films to keep their toys underwraps until much closer to their release.
A note on the Military nature of Starfleet:
It is very much a Military organization, as evidenced by the following:
- Missions include peacekeeping, diplomacy and general policing of spacelanes.
- Rank structure is vaguely Navy-like in structure, and they wear Uniforms.
- Even described by James Kirk as “A Combined Service” (TOS, “Tomorow is Yesterday”)
- Starfleet has often been utilized for military defense, and are well armed.
However, although Military in organizsation, it’s mission is primarily rooted in exploration, science and diplomacy:
- The Enterprise has at it’s core “to boldly go where no man has gone before”.
- The first officer is a Scientist, and does not like violence.
- The crew’s mission to Seek Out New Life is what they are there for.
- There is a fair amount of exploration seen on screen, right from the Pilot.
I have no issue with military discipline; these are professional astronauts, soldiers, scientists and diplomats.
Multiple roles in a single organization.
Disciplined enough to handle any unknown.
The best of the Federation and Humanity.
#78–”However, although Military in organization, it’s mission is primarily rooted in exploration, science and diplomacy”
This is the key point. Star Fleet’s military mission is secondary. The fact that it uses a military structure and chain of command is not inhibitive to its mission, or the way it is meant to be received when seeking out”new life and new civilizations”, or in bodly going “where no man has gone before”.
Gene’s dislike of certain elements of TWOK, and the entire plot of STVI, was due to it’s potrayal of Star Fleet as being equivalent to what we know now as “the military”, when he really did not believe that it was equivalent to anything we know now–that was the whole point. He never thought that his benevolent Federation would ever be besieged by such corruption and militarism as it was in STVI, nor did he feel that, by that time in our future, that scientists would see his Star Fleet as “the military”. To Gene, that did not define it at all, nor could someone so educated perceive it as such, even in anger.
I have no problem with military discipline and structure, either (I am a Marine).
With that said, I hope that JJ gives Gene back his “unmilitary-like” uniforms, perhaps symbolically, giving Star Fleet back to Gene’s vision. It appears he will.
By the way.
Regarding the uniforms: http://es.geocities.com/arthalas/uniforms.jpg
I hope my english is understandable on it.
(If liked, I’m more than open for it being actually shown)
Nice to hear the uniforms in this re-imagining are going to be close to the originals. I wonder if they will have unique assignment patches for ships/stations/command departments, as they did in ENT, TOS, TAS and TMP (the first movie only)? I always loved that – give each ship a unique feel, and you could easily tell when Starfleet guest characters were from somewhere other than the Enterprise. Since Abrams uses assignment patches for the different stations in ‘Lost’, I’m hoping so.
Damn. Geocities screwed the link. Sorry. I’ve uploaded the comic trip to Imageshack also. http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2409/uniformsqn0.jpg
I can’t believe so many people are dogging the movie uniforms! They were great. Everyone I knew at the time of TWOK loved them. They certainly looked better than the pajamas from TOS! The 2nd generation DS9 uniforms (First Contact) were definitely an improvement as well. The ENT uni’s may be the most realistic, but are visually unpleasant.
As for the military angle, it was Gene himself that introduced the dichotomy of scientists carrying out military & diplomatic missions. Can’t really blame Meyer & others for exploring that aspect.
#80 — Funny! The English is fine, except I have no idea what “reglammentary” means. From context, I think you mean “duty uniforms”? Or maybe “replacement uniforms”? It even works fine if you just delete the word “reglammentary” altogether.
And I did laugh out loud.
One other nitpick: there shouldn’t be an “a” before “nonsense”. :)
Cheve — One other suggestion; Kirk’s line might work better colloquially as something like “You woke me up for *that*?”
Nice work, though.
#83–You said,
“As for the military angle, it was Gene himself that introduced the dichotomy of scientists carrying out military & diplomatic missions. Can’t really blame Meyer & others for exploring that aspect.”
I loved TWOK too. It is the best of the films, IMO. But there were flaws. Gene apparently saw David’s line, referring to Star Fleet as “the military”, as one of them. Specifically, it was contrary to his core vision of the Federation he showed us in TOS. The fact that Star Fleet also defends that Federation was nothing new. It was simply overemphasized in those two films–especially STVI. It is a shame that he died seeing what he built being perverted in that manner, and he said as much before passing.
Now, I personally never saw the uniforms as being too “militaristic” in the films, but Gene did, and someone else mentioned it as well. I do feel his vision was betrayed in STVI, and in some of the later spinoff series, particularly the civilian government and Star Fleet’s brass in Gene’s benevolent Federation being so complacent about the existence of Section 31 and their actions. Would Gene have approved of their utter complacency over Section 31’s use of genocide as a battle tactic? No.
Anyway, I’m glad to see that they are going back to the “pajamas” (as you referred to them) seen in TOS. It’s too bad Gene won’t be here to see it.
Thank you Cranston.
I’ll eventually fix it and post it again somewhere.
Well, as far as I’m concerned, I liked the uniforms in STII to STVI. They kinda looked like real uniforms, and you know… gilrs like men in uniforms ;-) I like also the ones from DS9 (the last seasons) and those in the last movies (ex: Nemesis). I’m really not fond of the uniforms from TOS, actually, even if it’s my favorite show.
So what do I expect? Dunno. What do I wish for? Pants with legs that go to the feet rather than to mid-calf, duller colors (like in “The Cage”) and I don’t expect to see red shirts actually, since we didn’t see any in The Cage (maybe they were all dead!) And I especially wish for pants for the ladies… what kind of a uniform was that??? Mini-skirts and gogo boots? Come on! ;-) I kinda like the uniforms from Enterprise, actually. So I wouldn’t mind.
So as long as they make them contemporary, it’s fine with me.
Here’s the thing. The uniforms should look something more like the Pilot episodes uniforms. ie turtlenecks. THE CAGE and WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE link the Pike era to the first voyages of Kirk’s. Not to step on toes, but that’s that.
Will they keep to that? Who knows. But that’s all there is to that.
68, good question.
89, that’s what I’ve always wanted for the new movie, because it came before.
#35,
Paramount’s Trek Canon isn’t that static.
Feel free to ask if you’re confused.
#86
I can’t say I totally agree, as VI is one of my absolute favorites. And really, Starfleet isn’t representative of the military in TUC as much as it’s representative of the United States in general (politically as well as militarily).
That aside, David referring to Starfleet as ‘the military’ wasn’t exactly a revalation. We already knew Starfleet was the military. They battled Klingons, Romulans, Tholians & how many others during the course of TOS? Scotty once said his favorite diplomat ‘was a fully charged phaser bank’. Kirk & co were consistently armed when beaming down to a planet. They hold military ranks and follow a similar command structure. The military angle has been there right from the start, as part of Gene’s ‘vision’. I think in his later years he started to have a revisionist view of his own work (not to disrespect him or his work).
Well uniforms aside, lets hope the Playmate’s likenesses are better than they used to be. Hopefully Paramount hasn’t screwed the pooch by not licensing this to AA/DST. And the better question is why didn’t they ?
Huh. I always liked the ST II – VI uniforms, thought they were awesome. But then again, I’m not anti-military. For me, they were more naval, and that was a good thing. For me. They were certainly better than TMP, and I didn’t like the TNG uniforms as much, although they were kinda similar, only slimmed down and (for seasons 1 & 2) a one-piece jumpsuit. Season 3 – 7 TNG uniforms were MUCH better, but still not as cool as the movie uniforms 2 – 6.
I hope the new uniforms are a little more… substantial than the velour shirts. Perhaps with cooler insignias, metal rank pin insignias, etc.
There wasn’t anything wrong with the Playmates sculps. They were fine as TOYS. The only complaint I had with PM is that there were WAY too many versions of the same characters (different costumes)…
#94. Oregon Trek Geek – January 31, 2008
“metal rank pin insignias”
IMO, they should stick to the TOS rank insignia scheme. They look far more contemporary (kinda nautical) than metal pins worn on the collar or shoulder. Plus they won’t fall off in battle :P
I loved the rejected uniforms for ‘Star Trek: Generations’. They were essentially the same as the TNG Season 3-7 ones, only a TWOK-like flap was added on the chest. The rank pins were moved from the collar to the shoulder (more-or-less where they were on ENT), the tunic collars themselves were changed and, best of all, there was the addition of stripes on the sleeves (though they weren’t based on the TOS scheme – they were like modern navies, with 4 stripes denoting Captain, 3 Commander etc).
I say again, the II-VI uniforms were impractical. Sure, I liked them BACK THEN, but in retrospect… come on!
Same for the early TNG uniforms, “oh, Captain, can you zip me up?”
The FC-DS9 versions were a good balance, but damn- hot, heavy material, anyone?
Ironically, the early DS9/Voy jumpsuits make the most sense- lightweight, color-coded- and practical.
My 2c.
everyone is missing the point. what we really want is the uniforms from the cage. now that would be ace!
Miniskirts! Miniskirts! Miniskirts!
96. mada101 – January 31, 2008
#94. Oregon Trek Geek – January 31, 2008
“metal rank pin insignias”
“IMO, they should stick to the TOS rank insignia scheme. They look far more contemporary (kinda nautical) than metal pins worn on the collar or shoulder. Plus they won’t fall off in battle”
ok, that works for me :) And the sound of the rejected Generations uniforms sounded pretty cool!
Cage uniforms – ugly
TOS uniforms -retro cool, the basic designs still hold up visually, and especially loved and hope they keep the miniskirts and go go boots
Movie Era uniforms – laughable marching band uniforms
TNG- good designs and hold up well
DS9- ugly mechanics jumpsuits, same can be said for the Enterprise jumpsuits
First Contact – DS9 – hideous car upholstery type material, and ugly design overall
#92–I disagree with your assertion that he ever had a “revisionist” view of his own work. From the beginning, he wanted his Federation and its exploration arm, Starfleet, to represent his vision of a much more enlightened future for mankind. His generation endured the worst that mankind had to offer, and his imaginary Federation was not supposed to parallel the United States or anything we know today–that was the point of setting this vision in the future. Whenever TOS tackled an issue, it was done in such a format that it almost looked down upon the unenlightened past.
His Federation would never have fallen victim to such corruption seen in STVI at the highest level in Starfleet. Part of Gene’s vision was that 23rd Century mankind would be too enlightened for that to happen.
As far as your contention that the “military angle” was already there, defense was always a secondary function. Why shouldn’t he have been upset that, instead of being called “explorers”, they were bluntly referred to as “the military”? Starfleet was a multi-function organization that was, first and foremost, the Federation’s explorers and frontier diplomats. The Enterprise’s first officer was a scientist–not a soldier. Its next in line was an engineer!
It’s rather presumptuous of you to suggest that Gene’s look at his own objective was incorrect.
With that said, I liked the original movies as well–for what they were. The whole point was to say that it is nice to see that the uniforms will be more in line with Gene’s Star Trek than the movie uniforms ever were. In today’s turbulent environment, we need Gene’s vision for a brighter and more enlightened future– now more than ever.
re: 102
I don’t know if I agree with all of your post, but the part about Star Trek being about exploration hits a home run. It’s a starship, not a battleship.
I think Roddenberry did change some of his views over time, but who doesn’t? I don’t like Star Trek VI all that much either and over time, the Nick Meyer influence on Star Trek has not aged well. In fact, the only movie that has aged pretty well is The Motion Picture, especially since the Director’s Edition came out.
As for the uniforms, the more they are like the TV series and the less they are like the movies the better. Just too bad the occupants of said uniforms will be imposters.
103. “In fact, the only movie that has aged pretty well is The Motion Picture, especially since the Director’s Edition came out.”
I agree with that comment. The Director’s Cut has really improved TMP vastly.
“very similar to the designs of the original.” “…apparently bear strong connections to The Original Series era uniforms.”
C’mon!!! WTF does that mean!?!?!?!!!!!!
Give details or don’t say anything that at all! Photos or details, take your pic. Not you trekmovie.com but Action-Figure.com
What’s all this complaining about “toning down the colors” of the TOS uniforms? What does everything today have to be gray and dingy to be “realistic”? It’s not office attire, it’s a costume in a dramatc presentation. The design should facilitate easy character identification, and communicate information about them. Costumes should add to the drama, not mute it. Trek’s attitude was always bold, bright, new, young, even in the midst of harrowing circumstances. It was never dark and dirty and gritty. Casual fans need an anchor point to something familiar. Less than 1% of the people that see this movie read this website. They aren’t purists demand slavish adherene to “canon”, but they will want to see something that looks like what they remember.
#103 Stanky- Yeah.
As I’ve also said- the only movie that has aged well is TMP.
Primarily, the uniforms and hairstyles DO NOT date it. Hard to believe it was made in 1979. (!!)
I’d be very happy with Cage-ish uniforms… and miniskirts… of course.
That is all.
106 – Odkin, buddy, I just can’t agree with you. Loud colors scream of comic books. Easy character identification should come from the actor, not a bright red shirt. I don’t know how that would present any more information about a character than a more muted color. Besides, I didn’t see the description “gray and dingy” so you may be assuming something.
The costumes from TOS are just that – costumes. They SHOULD be uniforms. Sorry, but Starfleet is military. I support something more uniform-like. But not like Enterprise jumpsuits, either.
Unfortunately, this idea probably precludes the return of the miniskirts, so I wouldn’t have a problem if they went retro enough to do that. It would be fun, but it wouldn’t be realistic.
Either way, I’m not gonna let the costumes spoil anything for me. They got me pretty curious now. I wanna see some designs soon, or butts are gonna be kicked. And we need to see a full Enterprise picture as well. And soon.
#102
I didn’t say Rodenberry was in any way incorrect. I merely said he seemed to change his mind/viewpoints over time. As Stanky pointed out, we’re all prone to do so. I have no problem with it, I was just acknowledging it.
I still maintain he introduced the very militaristic undertones he later seemed to disown. The Starfleet of TOS is an exploratory organization, but it is also clearly a military one. If Rodenberry didn’t want anyone to draw those inferences, he could have left things like ranks, court martials & the like out of it. He chose to include them, and having served in the military himself he clearly had some idea of what he was doing.
And to be fair, it wasn’t solely ‘his’ work. It also belongs equally to DC Fontana, Gene Coon, Bob Justman, Harve Bennett & Nick Meyer. They all had great influence on the franchise.
That aside, he included stories of corrupt members of Starfleet in TOS – Capt Tracey in ‘The Omega Glory’ – as well as stories of Starfleet engaging in espionage/being aggressors against other powers – ‘The Enterprise Incident’. Their are obvious racial tensions between the Federation and the Klingons in ‘Day of the Dove’, but he objected to a logical extension of that in TUC. Those are the kinds of things I’m referring to when I say he sometimes seemed to have a revisionist view of his own work (that and his ever-changing views on ‘canon’).
And Stanky, I have to vehemently disagree that TMP has somehow aged better than TWOK or TUC. While I love the Director’s Cut of TMP, it’s still a very flawed Trek with stilted dialogue and stiff characters. It’s head was in the right place, but it lacked a heart in many ways. It looks very 70’s to me, whereas the Nick Meyer films (aside from maybe IV) still look very futuristic and proper. And the uniforms, while perhaps being practical, are very bland and unappealing from a visual standpoint.
re: 109 sean
Yes, there were military elements in Star Trek, such as the ranks, etc., and Roddenberry did come up with that, but at its heart it was about exploration.
Good point about others having influence on the development of Star Trek. I tend to see the movies as a whole separate deal, so for me, most “canon” comes directly from the TV series.
Yes, Star Trek The Motion Picture has its faults, but I think it looks the most futuristic by far of the movies. I despise the burgundy uniforms of II-VI more every time I see them. Although I don’t like the pastel nature of the TMP uniforms, I do like the style (well maybe the shoes hooked to pants part is not so great).
No pics of the prototypes yet? Don’t these retailers know we’re patiently waiting??
A lot of folks seem worried about what the uniforms will look like, whether they’ll have rank braid or pins, etc.
In the Navy, those who work on the flight deck wear t-shirts that are colored based on what their duty is. Those who work below decks either wear khakis and button-down short-sleeved shirts (for officers) or military versions of cargo pants and t-shirts (for enlisted).
It wouldn’t bother me much if Trek went that direction with the uniforms, but based on comments from Mr. Cawley and others, it sounds more like they’ll be variations on the TOS theme. That’s good enough for me.
#109– I don’t think “Day Of The Dove” is racially fueled, but more “nationalistic” instead. I don’t think Starfleet itself was ever “racist” in TOS. “Racist” and “Nationalist” are two very different things.
The rank struture used in the Starfleet Chain of Command is about as militaristic as the Coast Guard and the Merchant Marine (which, in addition to the Navy, use the exact same rank structure)! I guess, being a combat veteran former Marine, my idea of what is “militaristic” is a bit different (sorry, squids and airmen!). There is the very human element of corruption in TOS, but never involving Starfleet Command (Starfleet’s highest ranking officer, at that), and certainly not to the point where they would orchestrate interstellar assasination and treason, while undermining the very values of the Federation itself.
No one is suggesting that Starfleet has no military purpose (albeit defensive in nature), just that referring to it as “the military” is inappropriate and unrealistic, given its primary purposes of exploration, scientific research, and frontier diplomacy. That is the way Gene saw it, and I cannot disagree with his assessment of that.
Of course, there were others who contributed greatly to making TOS, but Gene was speaking of a departure from what HE wanted Star Trek to represent from the beginning–a future so enlightened as to assure that things of that nature would never happen at that level. Have you ever noticed that, in 79 episodes of TOS, ship to ship battles rarely ever took place, yet in nearly all of the films(other than TMP) there is at least one involving a Starfleet vessel? It’s quite obvious, from that fact alone, that the film series took a much more “militaristic” turn. I think his disappointment was justified.
Again, I love the first 4 films, especially TWOK–but I also want to see this return to the TOS-era better reflect the Star Trek Universe that Gene imagined, and I loved. Call me silly, but the knowledge that we will see the original uniforms again makes me all warm and fuzzy…
#103–And Stanky, they are no more “imposters” than Christopher Reeves was in that Superman suit! The characters….the characters–I tell ya!! Nice to see you true to form, though. I do agree with you about TMP. Despite its awkward pace, it has the most Trek-like storyline of any of the films. Obviously, if you want mass appeal, you have to go the route of TWOK, which I am equally fond of for what it is.
I agree that racism & nationalism are two different things, though they are often used in conjunction, and tend to feature similarly closed mindsets. It’s difficult to seperate the two in Star Trek, because it had a tendancy to depict entire empires as being represented by one race (Klingons, Romulans, Andorians, Vulcans). ENT – as bland as it was – did begin to show more realistic depictions of alien races by showing divisons & differences between Vulcans, Andorians, etc.
Because of that, it is difficult to seperate the slurs & anger in ‘Day of the Dove’ to determine whether it was nationalism or racism (Spock even makes reference to ‘racial bigotry’). I always saw it as both, personally. When McCoy or Scotty or Chekov are describing the Klingons in unpleasant terms, it’s difficult to determine whether they’re speaking about the race (racism) or the galactic power (nationalism).
In addition, Kirk & Spock both describe the entitiy as ‘feeding’ or ‘thriving’ off the hate of others. This implies the hate has to exist in the first place. It’s never described as placing that hatred or bigotry within the characters, just that it amplifies & feeds off of it. So the obvious leap there is that the characters experienced those feelings, but normally rose above them.
Add to that the 30 years of almost constant conflict with the Klingons by the time of TUC, and I still say the movie stays consistent within Star Trek lore and what had been established on TOS by Rodenberry himself. Plus, the entire message of the movie is overcoming fear or hatred, and accepting change. I don’t think a fear of change will be gone by the 23rd Century, we’ll just (hopefully) be better equipped to deal with it. The theme of the movie is VERY Rodenberry (improving oneself, rising above, helping an enemy).
I’m not sure where you’re getting that Starfleet’s highest ranking officer was involved in the assasination? The C&C wasn’t involved in the plot. Admiral Cartwright was, but he wasn’t the highest ranking officer. Nor was Colonel West. Those that were involved could be described as good men doing bad things with good intentions for the wrong reasons. That’s happened time and time again in history, and I don’t know that we’ll be free of it by the 23rd Century.
Ship-to-ship battles weren’t depicted as frequently for several reasons beyond what you’re suggesting. For one they were expensive, and as we are all aware, TOS wasn’t known for breaking the bank on new effects every week (2001 was made at roughly the same time, and STILL looks good). How many times did we see a fuzzy dot on the viewer that supposedly represented an alien ship?
That aside, just off the top of my head I can reference ship-to-ship battles in The Deadly Years, The Corbomite Maneuver, The Ultimate Computer, Balance of Terror, Errand of Mercy, The Doomsday Machine, Journey to Babel, The Enterprise Incident…I’m sure there are more, but I can’t think of them at the moment. Point being, there were plenty of battles. The films had battles because the big screen is a different medium, and they needed more exciting stories to keep butts in the seats. Plus, how many times did Kirk rip his shirt while engaging in a fist fight with someone? That may not qualify as a ship battle, but it was certainly not typical scientist behavior.
I’m not trying to put down GR or suggest Star Trek is a purely military storytelling vehicle, just that everyone that came after him basically used the rules that he created. And like it or not, he did create the basic military influence that others elaborated on in other stories/movies. I think there is a tendancy among fans to treat GR like some kind of all-knowing authority, when he was just a creative guy with some great ideas. A lot of Star Trek’s strengths came from the smart people he surrounded himself with, like those I named before. Left to his own devices, he seemed to suffocate his own product – just look at the first two seasons of TNG, where he was incredibly hands-on. It’s even more stiff and stale than TMP (not to mention it features an episode so blatantly racist, I can’t even watch it in repeats – “Code of Honor”. How GR let that one air is beyond me.) I don’t think Trek would have survived had Rodenberry not surrounded himself with people that disagreed with him from time to time. His ‘vision’ was great, but if taken as strictly as he’d wanted lacked the conflict and drama necessary for good storytelling.
#114–You said,
“…the entire message of the movie is overcoming fear or hatred, and accepting change. I don’t think a fear of change will be gone by the 23rd Century, we’ll just (hopefully) be better equipped to deal with it. The theme of the movie is VERY Rodenberry (improving oneself, rising above, helping an enemy).”
This is where I think you are misreading Gene’s criticism, as well as my own deference to that criticism. I don’t think you would get any argument from gene about the worthiness of the movie’s theme. You certainly won’t get it from me. Nor have I suggested that “fear of change” will disappear from human nature by the 23rd Century. It was more about corruption at the highest level of his benevolent Starfleet, and the very idea that its members would go to such lengths as to attempt to maintain the “Clod War” between the Klingons and the Federation. I understand that it was meant to parallel the stance taken by the military and intelligence hierarchies of the Soviet Union and The United States, but he felt it shouldn’t have. When TOS wished to make a social comment, it most often did so by depicting other worlds and other governments as suffering from similar issues to those they wished to comment on. Kirk and co. would retrospectively speak of humanity’s own “past”, and how they overcame that particular issue–whether it was racism, global war, disease, etc. STVI was a departure from that format–as it was so much more direct in its comparison. Instead of showing another culture the error of their ways, Starfleet itself was portrayed as having learned nothing from Earth’s past! Is this clearer to you now?
As for the “military angle”, you will never convince me that, in TOS, a scientist would ever have referred to Starfleet as simply “the military”. It was way too many other things, first and foremost, and not comparable to any orginization we know today. STVI turned it into just that.
Orginization????—I meant organization. Sorry.
In terms of what David said in TWOK, you have to also remember that Carol CORRECTS him. It’s not that David was giving a fair-and-balanced view of Starfleet, anymore than Kang’s wife when she described the Federation as having ‘death camps’ (admittedly, the latter example being more extreme than the first). David wasn’t part of Starfleet, and his feelings about his father were likely colouring his comments. I don’t think Nick Meyer ever expected anyone to just take the comment at face value as a commonplace description of Starfleet. Just an outsiders’ possible viewpoint.
As for Gene agreeing with the social commentary but not how it was presented…I always felt it was a bit pompous that our heroes had magically progressed beyond these issues (something never explained in any Trek in a satisfying way), and they were only dealt with in the context of other species. For me, Trek VI was not only a more realistic depiction of these issues, it was more effective because it was our heroes dealing with those feelings. It makes Kirk’s sacrifice to save the Klingon Chancellor, as well as his final words to her (”You’ve restored my son’s”) all the more moving. To have had the same storyline tackled through another culture would have diluted it’s impact.
To me, that was a fatal flaw in Gene’s thinking – he wanted to tackle these problems, but he didn’t want ‘his’ characters involved as anything other than 3rd-party observers. That removes the drama from the storytelling.
#117–I never found the TOS stories to be lacking in drama. But I did find the TOS format of story-with-a-message to be much more optimistic about our future than STVI was.
David had no idea, at that time, that Kirk was his father. And Carol only said that “Starfleet has kept the peace for over 100 years…” She never pointed out that they were not “the military”. And they did not “magically progress”. It took centuries to happen. As far as Nick Meyer’s thoughts, I am sure it was an honest oversight, as was Khan’s line that “…on Earth–200 years ago, I was a prince…” We all know the line should have read–”…300 years ago…”.
Anyway, the whole point of this was just to say that Gene felt that the post-TMP films depicted Starfleet as too “militaristic”, and forgot all about their mission to explore. Sadly, the only film (post-TMP) that had them “exploring” anything(albeit reluctantly) was perhaps the worst of the films–STV!
Mmmmm….miniskirts!
Well, at that time Meyer was following the line from Kirk in Space Seed about it being roughly 200 years in the future. It’s not really his fault that Gene didn’t come to a definitive conclusion as to how far in the future the various Treks were taking place until the end of Season 1 in TNG. And I always thought it was pretty obvious that Dave had at least some idea that Kirk was his father. His references to ‘that overgrown boyscout’ and his resentment of Starfleet seemed – to me – like misplaced resentment about an absentee father. That could just be my interpretation though.
It would seem Carol was correcting him, given what she said was a direct response to David’s assertion about Starfleet. It would have been awkward for her to say ‘David, you know Starfleet aren’t the military, they’re a scientific organization dedicated to exploration..!’. Instead, she points out that Starfleet are peacekeepers, as if to say ‘David, you know better’. It seemed like a clear and concise counterpoint to what he was trying to say.
And I didn’t mean to imply that TOS lacked drama. Far from it. Just that if Rodenberry had always had his way, it likely would have been less dramatic than it was. One has only to look at the monumental battle between Gene & Harlan over COTEOF to see that. The finished product is a fantastic thing, but compared to the original it was a butchered work (I won’t even get into his false claim that Ellison had Scotty dealing drugs). As I said before, part of why TUC drives the point home is it’s our heroes dealing with a difficult internal struggle, not a misc alien culture we have no investment in.
I understand Gene had reservations about some of the films, and I respect that as well as your opinion that they were too miltaristic. I just disagree with it. I think Treks II-IV are a special case in the issue of exploration, as they were all chapters in one story that was focused on the characters and not their mission. Plus they still manage to deal with great scifi concepts like the Genesis Device, Spock’s Katra, Time Travel, the alien Probe, etc. So I don’t think the films were really so far removed from the series as you might think. Trek VI we’ll just have to agree to disagree on, as I think it’s just as optimistic about the future (if not moreso) than anything in TOS.
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..saw this in anotehr forum where this guy had reportedly been to the UK toy fair; All in all, sounds very promising.
“just been 2 toyfair,bridge playset on view there,faithful layout to trek canon,champagne coloured metal finish around consoles,and view screen in front as always.transporter room slightly different but retro,costumes almost exactly like st tos,kirk in jumpsuit,and also space suit “.
#120–I respectfully agree to disagree on TUC. After all, everyone here has their own preferences. I love the films II-IV (the first continuing storyline in Trek history beyond the two-part episode format). But I also have great love for the stand alone TMP. Part of my natural distaste for the post STIV films has nothing to do with anything Gene said about STVI, rather it is Shatner’s choice of direction in which to take the Kirk character. This is my own speculation, of course, but I think after the success of STIV he tried way too hard to make Jim Kirk a funny guy. The comedy in STIV was so natural in that it was set up by the very circumstances the characters found themselves in once they got to 20th century Earth, as well as the awkward reintegration of Spock’s mind and body. Shatner tried too hard to build on that in STV, and we even get him throwing out one-liners in STVI while participating in an almost too embarassing to watch fist fight with a shapeshifter in the snow. The man was in his 60’s!
I will freely admit that upon seeing them get the new Enterprise-A at the end of STIV, I was elated at the thought that there could be new Star Trek adventures to come, possibly introducing new and younger characters somewhat worthy of replacing those the actors were becoming to old to realistically portray (under Kirk’s command, especially). But it didn’t happen. In retrospect, I would rather have seen them ride off into the sunset on the high note that was STIV. There are plenty who disagree with me, who feel as you do about STVI, but I stand by it as a valid opinion. With that said, I am nervously excited to see the newest additions to the legacy of those characters. I have often thought about how great the possibilities could be in taking the franchise back to the glory years of the TOS-era. There is so much unexplored history there—Pre-TOS, in between TOS and TMP, in between TMP and TWOK, etc. Well, I’m getting my wish.
TUC was a great movie…and should have been the last one with James T Kirk and crew of the original cast films.