Giacchino Excited By Challenge Of New Trek Score January 31, 2008
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Music, Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback
Michael Giacchino is currently at work on the score for the new Speed Racer movie, but he is already thinking ahead to how he will approach scoring JJ Abrams’ Star Trek. The 2008 Oscar and Grammy nominee talked to the LA Times about how scores for both Racer and Trek will have connections to the original sources, but also stand on their own.
For Speed Racer, Giacchino wants to be sure of a connection to the past
It will have an injection of feeling from the old show, but just on a bigger scale. I have every single score from ‘Speed Racer.’ I found them in Japan on CD, and I love that music. I want to make sure there’s a thread to it, so this feels like it was born out of the show
Giacchino tells the times he will start work on Trek in April, but he already has put some thought into it:
What I am thinking about is how so much amazing music has been written for the series, whether it be for the show or TV or the later shows. There’s so much stuff there that I love, so to have to put something into that world is very daunting.
But, Giacchino still wants to the score to stand alone and sit well with Abrams vision for the film, saying:
In the same way that J.J. took the story and is re-inventing what it is, this is a chance to create something new, thematically, so I am excited about that challenge, but I want it to feel like it deserves to sit up on the shelf with the other ones.
For the full Giacchino interview, goto the LA Times.
For a full list of Giacchino’s works, goto his official site
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Great article! I am so excited about this score — he is a terrific choice. Not too excited about Speed Racer, though…
Sounds like this man has the passion to take on past trek score composers. I am very excited.
I think that his score should have elements of both Alexander Courage’s Theme and also Jerry Goldsmith’s. It would also be interesting if he put motifs from other Kirk era films every once in a while, such as those of James Horner, Leonard Rosenman, and Cliff Eidelman. Finally, add some original series music motifs along with original Giacchino motifs and I think that this will be the best Star Trek Film score yet.
first?
I hope the score will stand on it´s own and also fit for trek, like the score from star trek VI did.
well…not first
Glad to hear he enjoys the original themes
Oh and Last! or not, hey wait a minute I’m not really F!!!!!!!! am I
wow! no ones jumped on the re-invention quote to start a movie buycott yet!!
“In the same way that J.J. took the story and is re-inventing what it is”
Well folks, Giacchino confirmed canon is being tossed out like yesterday’s newspaper. All that we have know, all that we loved will be lost.
Well, #7, it didn’t take long. Jeez.
Jeez, here we go again, taking one sentence out of context, and blowing it out of proportion…
And stop with the melodrama about canon being tossed aside. People who are making the movie said so themselves that Trek will be appropriately honored in this movie.
Yep, there’s that ugly word… Re-inventing. Sigh. At least what we have heard about uniforms is encouraging.
If what I’ve heard from Speed Racer so far is his work, I’m sorely unimpressed. But even John Williams and Danny Elfman have bad days :)
I do agree it should carry elements of the Trek music we know, but he should not be grounded by it, either. That’s a sure way to get a score he feels no heart for. Or we get a score that sounds the same from scene to scene (ala Superman Returns)
Hint at the old scores, but tell the story first.
I have heard some of his work, and I think he’ll be fine.
I think something similar to the TSFS score would be best for this movie (yeah the TWOK score was great, but a little too militaristic for my taste).
Say what you will about the movie itself, but I don’t think any other score captured the magic and wonder of the Star Trek universe as well as that one did.
The music during the “stealing the Enterprise” scene is as good as it gets, IMO.
#8…. only if you let it be so. You will still have everything you had before… if you don’t accept the new movie as canon, you can still enjoy it as an alternate version.
So cheer up! Nothing they do now can affect what we already have.
On the score subject, I think we’ll have a great one, especially if he references some of the well-known themes of the series, something rarely done in the movies before this.
13 - That’s one of my favorite all-time Trek scores, is the piece for “Stealing the Enterprise”. That and the use of TOS theme for the return to the Enterprise in TVH.
If all you think of Giacchino is for Speed Racer, check out his score for The Incredibles. He completely nailed the James Bond/superhero/over-the-top style that would set it up there with the John Barry scores for Goldfinger and Thunderball.
He knows what to do with genres of music, and I think he’ll do it just fine.
To me, he sounds like the approach David Arnold takes with the Bond movies currently. He knows when to cue the classic musical themes, and integrate them into something new.
The “stealing the Enterprise” scene is probably one of my favourite scenes spanning the entire 40 years.
All of it was beautifully done; sight, sound, pacing, and all other elements perfectly combined
Giacchino has done excellent work with The Incredibles and Lost to name a few pieces.
I’m really excited to see what he can do with the Star Trek franchise.
12,
Absolutely.
Giacchino has done more than I realized. His work is wonderful.:)
#14 “On the score subject, I think we’ll have a great one, especially if he references some of the well-known themes of the series, something rarely done in the movies before this.”
I rewatched TWOK recently, and there were a surprising number of interludes lifted directly from the series, particularly during the scenes where Kirk & Co. are hunting down Kahn after he’s stolen the Genesis device. So, being the geekala that I am, I watched the “Space Seed” episode again, and note for note, the music was almost identical.
Would *lovelovelove* to see that treatment again!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
Where the heck were all the “geekalas” when I was in high school? Of course, there were some, but there was no internet to find them!!!
for those not familiar with his work I have added a link to a full list at his official site. His MI3 score was excellent and showed a nice mix of original with new.
and please don’t read into things like ‘re-invention’…people like Giacchino aren’t steeped in Trek mythology and terminology. And of course people like Orci, Abrams and Lindelof never use words like that.
I’d like to hear something along the lines of the original series, dramatic and emotional. Music with real personality, not something vanilla like was done over and over in the spin-off series.
#14 ,#19
I too watched TWOK recently and also noticed a repeating theme throughout the TOS series, like in the scene where Khan first finds Chekov and interrogates him. That to me stood out as such a great example of how the original music could integrate into the feature films.
#16 - totally agree.
Throughout the different series and the movies, there have been musical moments which froze it in time for the viewers.
The Klingon’s theme in STMP.
Khan’s theme? I still get goosebumps.
Amazing Grace? Classic when used in the right way.
Oddly I never liked the STMP theme, but came to love it with Next Gen.
Anyone still tear up at the theme from “Inner Light”? Absolutely brilliant!
For me, Courage’s original trumpet opening is paramount (no pun intended), and should be used in some context. It is (the original Courage theme) as much Star Trek as is the Enterprise.
But we are talking about the beginning of the franchise again, so the music should have a character all its own. Fans will want that original theme somewhere, and used respectfully. If the initial trailer is any example, we won’t be disappointed.
#15.
I’m with you. We all have nothing to worry about on this score — pun intended.
Between his work for The Incredibles and Lost, it’s clear that Giacchino’s ear for idioms and his ease with different types of orchestration are both good omens. He doesn’t churn out characterless dreck like some TV & movie composers Who Shall Remain Nameless.
I’ve always loved the music from the original show, not just because its leitmotifs fit the characters & action so perfectly, but because it reflected trends in 20th-century classical music — especially Russian. There’s some pretty discordant, propulsive, spiky stuff in there, imaginatively arranged.
I doubt that Giacchino will be parroting it exactly, and he shouldn’t. But his work is so good & so imaginative that we can rest assured he’ll churn out something well worth hearing.
#16 - you know that the score for Stealing the Enterprise was itself stolen, almost note-for-note, from Prokofiev’s ballet for Romeo and Juliet? In fact, Horner basically cribbed either from Prokofiev (Star Treks, Battle Beyond the Stars, Krull) or Khachaturian (Aliens, Clear and Present Danger), or indeed himself…
I hope while Giacchino acknowledges those scores in some way, he at least makes an attempt to be ORIGINAL instead of raping public-domain compositions.
Giacchino will do a terrific job, as long has he maintains his own voice. Although it would be wonderfull to see Steiner’s and others work beeing recognized, this one needs to be an original. I’d love a new Star Trek on my soundtrack-shelf and not just a adaption. Same thing counts for for the movie, by the way.
Off course, an exception needs to be maid for Courage’s theme. In teh words of James Horner: making Star Trek without it is like making Star Trek without the Enterprise
Speeking of wich, #19
Space Seed did not have original music, but was tracked with music from other episodes. Also, except for the basic texture, I find the music in TWOK quite different. Could you tell what sequence you’re refering to?
#8: ““In the same way that J.J. took the story and is re-inventing what it is”
Well folks, Giacchino confirmed canon is being tossed out like yesterday’s newspaper. All that we have know, all that we loved will be lost.”
I’m sorry, are we caring about that now?
My thinking of the score for this movie should parallel what was done for Casino Royale:
Since we were seeing the “beginning” of James Bond, in essence, Arnold had scored the movie with his own compositions, mixed in the title song (an essential to a successful Bond soundtrack), and liberal sprinklings of the Monty Norman theme (also called “(Theme from) Dr. No”).
At the very end of the movie, you get the whole package in the last sequence: Bond corners his target, he finally says his name in the classic way (which was not done until that scene), and the complete and original theme is heard.
My thinking is that this may follow that track (or Trek): you’ll hear those little echoes of the original music, then by the end, you will see the complete TOS crew on the Enterprise going into space, then hear the complete theme music from TOS as we go into the end credits.
Anyone for Fred Steiner and the Corbomite Maneuver?
#28 - yes.
#13….right on. I sometimes throw STIII in just to see, and hear that one scene. I agree totally.
He has enormous shoes to fill, and I wish him luck, inspiration, and endurance :)
Also, a good getaway car, just in case the purists hate it and stage a riot.
8. Sybok Amok -
Heh, someone named Sybok is complaining about JJ not following Canon…despite the whole Sybok thing being a bit dicey.
I could care less if we refers to any of the trek movie themes. I mean referring to those aweome original series music compositions that have been engraved in our minds for years. It had, hands down, the best incidental music of any TV series.
I’m not looking for wholesale reproductions, just a reference here and there. And considering his MO, we’ll hear a little more familiar music than just the Courage theme. Those will be spine-tingling moments.
Steiner rocks! (In a manner of speaking)
As to canon: we are seeing a lot more attention to canon details than I would have expected given my initial fears upon first hearing of a “re-imagining”. George Kirk, Pike, Kobayashi Maru cheating, allusions to “Enterprise” - sounds like if I closed my eyes it would totally fit within the established structure of the Trek universe. And if I opened them, I would see . . . not sure yet, but am willing to give the creative team the benefit of the doubt in that regard. The key will be whether it is a good movie - one where people WANT to pull it into the overall Trek universe. If so, I am convinced that a canonical explanation of differences will either be provided by the film itself or engineered by clever fans.
is the small piece of music from the trailer part of the overall score?
greg
uk
One of my favorite parts of Nemesis was near the end when we see the Ent E in drydock and Goldsmith gives us a few measures of his original TMP theme.
I’d love a new theme with nods like Goldsmith gave us. That would be very exciting.
#26 - Right you are! There are certainly many other film composers out there that “borrow” material from other composers (for instance, John Williams with Holst, Stravinsky and Shostakovich, to name a few), but few are as egregious as Horner in outright stealing.
Horner was the most moving score- hope he pays some attention to that as well.
Just my 2 cents
All this moaning about cannon and junk is really tiring. “i want the movie to be just like the 60’s version!” Go watch TOS remastered then.
If you (canon wonks) seriously think that a modern audience is going to accept go-go boots, vacuum tubes, and rubber hortas, you’re nuts.
Michael Giacchino: WELCOME ABOARD! Your name is about to become legendary in ‘Trek production lore; we hope you are not overwhelmed by that notion, but rather will embrace the challenge and bask in our purchasing of the soundtrack when the film is released. And I KNOW WE WILL! Here’s also hoping that the studio orchestra recording sessions will be documented in JJ’s “STAR TREK: Behind-the-Scenes” production DVD, which has been [rumored to be] considered for simultaneous release (or something such as that).
BTW, it’s also hoped (by SOME of us, anyway) that there may be a scene in which Nyota Uhura may sing the LYRICS to TOS series theme, “REMEMBER ME,” for some reason that actually makes sense in the story, such as when Nichelle sang songs such as “Beyond Antares” in TOS—in the ship’s rec room, or humming to herself while working on the bridge—if Alex and Roberto haven’t already written that type of scenario into their storyline. Sure, some will read that idea and say it may clutter the story too much, but SO WHAT??? A 2-hour STAR TREK movie with Uhura singing is just what [Dr. McCoy] ordered, don’t you think?
Good luck, Michael—we’re all looking forward to your musical take on STAR TREK!
“If you (canon wonks) seriously think that a modern audience is going to accept go-go boots, vacuum tubes, and rubber hortas, you’re nuts.”
I think you’re confusing ’60s production design with ’60s production value. I haven’t seen anyone advocating the latter.
Space Seed did not have original music, but was tracked with music from other episodes. Also, except for the basic texture, I find the music in TWOK quite different. Could you tell what sequence you’re refering to?
I did notice that music in other episodes as well. The interludes I’m talking about are very, very small. It’s really just a hint of what was used in Space Seed and others. There’s one scene with Khan on the bridge of the stolen ship during the cat-and-mouse sequence and as mentioned before, the scene where Khan puts the space slug in Chekov’s ear. They’re some type of horn, maybe trombone. Hard to put into words. You’d simply have to hear it.
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
Dare I hope for a new version of the “Amok Time” fight music?
Duh-duh-DIE-DIE-DIE-duh-te-DIE-DIE!
Ooops #43 meant for #27 Doorchime.
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#39 Yes!
Horner’s stuff (stolen or not) was fantastic. Also, in TMP, shortly after E leaves spacedock, Goldsmith uses some of the orignial series’ theme song (not the 8 note fanfare). That would be cool to hear as well.
#38, re: #26.
Actually, Steiner’s original stuff referenced Prokoviev and Shostakovich quite boldly. I’m all for it myself. No one wrote syncopated fanfares like those Russians.
Yeah, I was about to ask, who did the musical cues for the trailer?
#47 and just to add — so long as Giacchino doesn’t ape Carmina Burana, I think we’ll be okay. If I hear one more imitation of “O Fortuna,” I’ll pop my cork.
Michael, if you capture the sense of awe and wonder that the original series had(especially season 1 and 2)you’ll do just fine.
I thought that all of the TV incarnations after TOS had the most boring nondescript MUZAK I’ve ever heard(other than the themes) Apparently Rick Berman hated the over the top music of TOS and insisted it be played down several notches. The problem with that is, the strength and emotion ALSO get diluted in the process.
Gene Roddenberry apparently told composers that he wanted the music in TOS to sound like “Captain Blood” which was a classic pirate movie.
CHECK OUT:
-BALANCE OF TERROR
-THE CORBOMITE MANEUVER
-WHO MOURNS FOR ADONAIS?
-THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE
-THE NAKED TIME
Good luck!
I’m sure you will blow us away.
P.S.
Here are the most INTERESTING interpretations of STAR TREK 2 & 6 I’ve ever heard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_6dcUDBNbg
Oh god, let’s please not have Uhura singing!
Giacchino is my all-time favorite composer!! I love that guy…a total genius!! If everything about JJ’s Trek movie completely sucks, at least we’ll get an AWESOME soundtrack out of it!!! :D
I can’t wait to hear his rendition of the original theme. *dances around excitedly*
Don’t know if it’s Giacchino’s work, but the short musical piece in the teaser is fantastic, and moving too.
#47 - Sure, borrowing is very common, for very good reasons - Composers are influenced by what they like, deadlines for completing scores plays into it and sometimes the director will say something like “I want the music here to sound like ‘The Rite of Spring.’” The vast majority of film composers will capture the feel of another work and attempt to make it their own (to varying degrees). Horner, on the other hand will simply lift “Battle on the Ice” from Prokofiev’s “Lt. Kijé” or “Love Duet” from Khachaturian’s “Gayne.” To be fair, Horner does add other elements and connective tissue, but unfortunately he uses the same elements in virtually all of his scores (referring to #26 reference to stealing from “indeed, himself”). That said, his TWOK (it remains, along with his TSFS and Brainstorm scores as some of my favorites) score blew me away when I first saw the movie as a teenager and was among many experiences that led me to study music in college. He indeed has a talent for matching appropriate material to film for maximum dramatic effect.
#33: “Heh, someone named Sybok is complaining about JJ not following Canon…despite the whole Sybok thing being a bit dicey.”
Sybok is canon. STV:TFF, as will all related TOS incarnations starring William Shatner is canon. Just as original fine art comes with a letter of authenticity, inclusion of The Shat officially validates anything Trek.
TMP is the best score, IMO. Much as I enjoy James Horner’s Trek music, Jerry Goldsmith’s has an elegance & scale of grandeur that not even his later work on TFF,FC, INS or NEM could recapture. TUC also had a good stand alone score, though I would have prefered more of a set theme during the main titles.
#50 Captain Blood? arrr… Whar?
So Trek is meant to be broad and over tha top… interesting…
It’s been a long road…
-Speed is good…!
55 - To me, TMP is the only really original Goldsmith Trek score. Everything he did in Trek after that was rehashing of the original thematic cues.
He also did a nice rendition of TOS theme, both when Kirk records his log entries (the most prominent being after Spock boards - which as a 7 year old seeing TMP in the theatre, had me in awe hearing an entire theatre cheer when hearing it play).
As much as I love James Horner’s work, I tend to hear too many similarities in all his scores (TWOK, TSFS, Titanic, Uncommon Valor, Cocoon, etc.)
Apart from that, I’ll reiterate that I feel very confident in Giacchino’s ability to give this movie some expansive feel, some TOS feel, and something wholly original, all at the same time.
#55
I think the nature of TMP compared to the other Star Trek movie scores are a reflection of the movies themselves.
TMP was created very much in the 2001 mold in many ways, with a large, epic story, and a sense of awe and foreboding that permeates the score.
Star Trek II onwards went back to the Action-Adventure framework of much of the original series, and thus Trek II was given the “Nautical but Nice” treatment under Nicholas Meyer’s guidance.
Trek II’s main titles sound more like a seafaring adventure than the heroic march of TMP.
I’m hoping and praying that Bruce Hyde gets a cameo singing “I’ll take you home again Kathleen”
No, seriously… I think all the movie themes have been strong (except the dingdong Christmasy Whale junk from Star Trek IV) but I have to agree… we need some bits of Amok Time fight music and Doomsday Machine threat music, or at least pieces that are as dynamic.
Who are we kidding. We’ll all be downloading the soundtrack at first chance. Uh, legally, from Itunes or somewhere… ;)
#8–Wow. You are taking that remark quite literally, aren’t you? What makes you think he has even seen the script? He doesn’t start work on it until April, and they are not even finished shooting yet. You sound desperate to find a reason to believe yourself. There is nothing of substance to lead you to believe that. Zero. Nada. Zilch. Yet here you go…
…Three points of order:
1) RE: the TWOK score: It was common knowledge in Hollywood at that time that James Horner had four basic stock scores that he simply rearranged the notes in order to create “new” scores on a very quick basis. Which is why a) he got a lot of gigs in the 70’s and 80s, and b) they all sounded annoyingly alike. Best example? TWOK’s soundtrack and the one for Corman’s Battle Beyond the Stars, AKA “John Boy Walton’s Seven Samurai”.
2) Sybok is canon. His relation to Spock is not. I’ll stick with Gene Roddenberry’s ruling on this one, kids - just as I’ve long agreed with his denoument of the K/S freaks and their twisted views on Kirk and Spock’s friendship being more than what it is.
3) A note to Giacchino: during the development of the sountrack, stay *FAR* away from any music performed by Rod Stewart. We do *NOT* need another limpwristed theme song like “Faith of the Heart” polluting what should be a grand and epic soundtrack.
I’d love to hear the guitar playing a few notes of Spock’s theme from Amok Time and Journey to Babel, at some poignant moment in Spock’s life.
“Deep Dish Horta”
That just made me laugh out loud.
#60 - “the dingdong Christmasy Whale junk from Star Trek IV”
:D
A better description I’ve not heard. For a long time I referred to that score as “A Star Trek Christmas.”
Interesting (to me, anyway) how Leonard Rosenman got the gig for ST IV.
Seems that an agreement was made with the musician’s union that no two consecutive scores could be done by the same composer (to help spread the employment around). Paramount violated that (obviously) so to appease the union the score was given to Rosenman (who I believe was the head of the union at the time).
#60 - “the dingdong Christmasy Whale junk from Star Trek IV”
I ALSO AGREE 1000% - omg, what crap when compared to the good stuff.
Is it just me? I couldn’t tell you anything about any of the scores for any of the movies. Yeah, I know the TOS theme and the TNG theme, but short of that I don’t think I’ve ever paid attention to the score of a film.
66
I agree the TVH theme is a bit more grating today than it was in 1986, but overall I still think it works pretty well in the movie.
It’s a very fun and bouncy score, and it absolutely MADE the scene when Checkov gets rescued from the hospital. It still makes me smile when I hear it.
Well, I for one happen to LIKE the “dingdong Christmasy Whale junk from STAR TREK IV,” because, well, it DOES remind me of Christmas!
Christmas 1986, to be exact,,, when I went from being a passing TREK fan to a hardcore, full-fledged TREK nerd, after seeing THE VOYAGE HOME in the theater. Before long, I was raiding all of my father’s taped-from-the-TV VHS cassettes and memorizing the “Star Trek Compendium.”
If it’s possible to be nostalgic for a time when I was the only TREK fan I knew in high school and girls looked right past me, then Christmas ‘86 will always hold on odd place in my heart! :)
46…
“Also, in TMP, shortly after E leaves spacedock, Goldsmith uses some of the orignial series’ theme song (not the 8 note fanfare). That would be cool to hear as well.”
The Star Trek TOS main theme (not Courage’s fanfare) was heard several times in TMP, whenever Kirk made a Captain’s Log entry. For some reason it isn’t included on the movie’s soundtrack CD.
No, it’s not just you. That’s kinda where I’m at with it.
TOS we have burned into our minds for obvious reasons (it’s dramatic, powerful, plus we’ve watched those episodes dozens of times)… the main TNG theme (STTMP) because it - IMO - is also pretty powerful, memorable…
The new-age elevator muzak throughout that series was god awful though. I wish I could say it was “ahead of its time,” but I’m sorry, it really was and still is terrible.
The score for TVH was lifted by the composer himself from his score for “Lord of the Rings” but every one Rosenman does is deriviative of his earlier ones, to a much greater degree than Horner, even.
I just hope the themes sounds like space exploration, like on the old star trek, not some subdued 90’s theme which doesn’t get anywhere (emotionally speaking)
I would like to see the same approach Jerry Goldsmith did with TMP. A new exciting score with hints of the TOS theme(s). Not that I would be upset if some of Goldsmith’s or Horner’s work was slipped in, but a fresh exciting score with just a hint would be good.
71-
Re: the ‘new-age elevator muzak” for STTNG— LOL– I agree.
That was another of Rick Berman’s wonderful contributions- his mandate to let the music underscore the action rather than enhance it.
The result– not a bar of music stands out in my mind from any of the Berman TV shows (other than the main themes of course)
I challenge anyone to recall and hum a few bars of Berman era background music.
The Lost, MI:II, Alias, Incredibles, and Ratatoullie scores are excellent. This guy is a future scoring legend and deserves his place along side Goldsmith and Horner.
Very excited with him doing the soundtrack.. if you havn’t seen cloverfield yet, the final music of the film.. as the credits are rolling.. is a song called
ROAR!
very good song that knows its subject matter.. monsters.. I think he will do an excellent job
you can listen to it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4p3rM9jOdE
Considering how Giacchino strives to invoke the feel of the original when doing a score for an pre-existing creation, I’m sure we’ll hear some of the old famiiar themes sprinkled in… but more inportantly, the “sound” of the original is referenced. For example, he used only live instruments, played at the same time, on analog tape, for “The Incredibles” to evoke the 60’s jazz/Bond feeling and sound.
Since the new movie is of TOS, not the movies, I expect it will have a lot of the series sound, done in a big way. And that’s a good thing. The TV show music was as good as any movie score, only done with a smaller orchestra.
The music of the spin-offs was alway so forgetable, and worse than that…interchangable. When Enterprise first came on and everyone was telling me that it wasn’t like any Trek before it, well, I couldn’t tell that by the music. Lord, you could have pulled the musical score off of Enterprise and replaced it with any number of scores from TNG, Voyager, etc and it would have sounded the same. Dull.
I hope we get back to the brash, in your face and memorable cues from TOS. Music like classic fight cue from Amok Time, or the Doomsday Machine. Or the wonderfully yet creepily alien music of the Cage. And I’m not saying copy those themes to the letter, but, rather, bring that type of creativity to the score.
I really hope Giachinno is more influenced by the music of TOS than the TOS movies. It’s a whole different animal. The music truly is a key ingredient of what makes TOS tick.
I sincerely hope that JJ will give the TOS music the reverence it deserves and treat it like he did his MI 3 score by bringing in some very familiar themes here and there.
#75 -
I’ll try. I think the Berman-era soundtracks went something like this…
LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Followed closely by:
ZZZZZZZZZZZ
Chill out people! Giacchino is going to be perfect for this. Listen to the score for “The Incredibles” and how it fits the tone and mood of the film. Then shift gears and listen to “MI3″ and how he nails that with a genuine respect for the old TV series. Then jump to “Ratatoille” and compare that to some authentic French stuff and how he absolutely knocks that one out of the park with authenticity, excitement and fun.
Then, compare all that to the plodding, lifeless background noise from Trek Series like Voyager and Enterprise…or even the monotone score from “Batman Begins”. I can’t say how thrilled I am that Giacchino is doing this. I am certain he’ll pull in elements that will reflect the mood of TOS, and he’ll incorporate those rare forgotten things in music these days - Melody, rythm and dynamic range. He’ll get this right. Nobody else I’d rather see doing the score than Giacchino.
Nobody beats Horner and Goldsmith, McCarthy came close.
To be fair, the Berman era underscoring of music wass kind of the style for drama back then.
#80- You nailed THAT, exactly.
Giacchino’s score is one aspect I’m REALLY looking forward to.
He should stay away from the nautical Hornerisms of TWOK/TSFS at all costs. Why? IT’S BEEN DONE- to death!
I imagine an update of the brilliant TOS-themed material, simple but not sparse, a break from the Big Scores of Movie Trek.
Goldsmith- God love ‘em- got too bogged down and repetative in his later Trek scores, but I think that was probably due to Berman’s stranglehold.
#54.
I would just like to say I am lovin’ this conversation. There aren’t too many folks out in the real world with whom I can discuss 20th-century Russian influences on “Star Trek” musical scoring.
Still, I hope he makes cues to both the TOS and Goldsmith’s movie theme. I dont think an opening or ending cue of the theme is needed at all (Think along the lines of ST II and ST VI in their score originality coming from the type of films they were and the tone of the piece.) Instead, have just brief moments or cues from TOS and Goldsmith at moments in the film to help express key moments that represent Star Trek itself.
oh and #81,
The Batman Begins score is not monotone at all. You simply have to not inject Burton/Elfman notions of extremes into what your preconception of the piece is. Howard and Zimmer’s score undertones the aspects of Bruce Wayne during the film wonderfully and really capture the journey of the character.
Personally I think it’s time to give TMP / TNG theme a rest. Blend the Alexander Courage music into something new.
Berman’s Trek scores dipped in quality as soon as Ron Jones was fired. His compositions on Best of Both Worlds soundtrack remain the most unique and effective in all of the modern Treks- IMHO.
82. “Nobody beats Horner and Goldsmith, McCarthy came close.”
Oh, boy. McCarthy is a hack compared to Goldsmith. Okay, maybe that’s not fair because McCarthy’s work was all in the Berman era. Then again, Goldsmith’s Voyager score (also the Berman years) is one of the greatest TV themes ever while McCarthy’s DS9 is an entirely forgettable snoozefest. The “Generations” score is a big yawner, too, with a couple of exceptions that come close to being memorable, but not quite. McCarthy’s “MacGyver” theme is terrific… bouncy, full of fun and energy… the complete opposite of his Trek work.
Horner’s scores are much better, but still pale next to the late, great Goldsmith. Horner’s Trek II score is brilliant… until you happen to catch “Battle Beyond the Stars” and realize it was largely rearranged for Trek II. (Of course, not many know this, since all of about 450 people have ever seen the awful BBtS.) He really outdid himself with “Titanic”.
There were a few episodes of TNG that had very good background music. Ron Jones’ work was usually pretty good. Jay Chattaway’s work for “Tin Man” and “The Inner Light.” stand out in a series not known for good scores.
Ron Jones was awesome, but had his creative hands tied by the mandate that new Trek be bland. I have enjoyed Ron since noticing his music on the Ruby-Spears Superman animated series.
#62 - That’s bull. And you don’t support your oppinion by naming two scores Horner composed early in his carreer! The guy was starting out in 1982 and had no body of work whatsoever! Second, you can’t even count the times Horner of every other composer was asked to “make it sound like this or that.” That said, TWOK, Krull, and Brainstorm are three of the most original, functional and best composed scores of ’80’s and every score Horner wrote (or: writes!) is cut to the bone of the film. Every score, how remnicent or even alike a theme may be, does his job and that is endorse the emotional setting of the film.
And to #70 -Those versions of the TOS-theme were actually done by Alexander Courage himself! Courage orchestrated the TMP score for Goldsmith and Goldsmith asked him to do the short “Captain’s Log”-cues. And they aren’t on the album because Goldsmith didn’t wan’ them on it.
Music is so important to Trek. I hope he creates a distinctive theme that can be readily identified as being for/from this movie. Just as Goldsmith did with TMP, and Horner did with TWOK.
I also hope he incorporates both Horner and Goldsmith’s themes in there from time to time, and of course Courage too.
I think Giacchino will do a great job and i do agree with his idea about creating something new.
I love Goldsmith scores for Star Trek and i agree with most comments here that his epic TMP score(masterpiece) was his best soundtrack for Star Trek(thou off-topic i consider his best score ever was for Legend ).
Personally i feel Horner scores little overrated and i didn’t like his seafaring approach(way to Nautical). Besides i do think Giacchino should avoid Goldsmith and Horner works and create his own legacy in the Star Trek franchise
#91 How true!
Ron Jones was fired because he was injecting theme-related pieces to tie in with the characters. To Berman, this was horrible! What an idiot.
Obviously, the guy knows NOTHING about the value of music in film.
Ron Jones was the best composer TNG ever had, by far.
Batman Begins’ score was a disappointment, especially having both James Newton Howard AND Hanz Zimmer work on it. Zimmer is overrated in my opinion. He uses a plodding, repetative bass line too much, which can be heard through mont of BB. JNH is generally brilliant. His Waterworld score will give you chills. He’s taken over for Goldsmith as the most brilliant composer to be stuck with bad movies to work with.
(BB excepted.)
Hey guys, has anyone heard about whether they’re going to use the TOS TV theme, the TOS/TNG movie theme or some combination of both?
#95 IIRC Ron Jones was officially fired because he continuously went over budget due to his insistance on big orchestral scores and thus hiring musicians etc for those scores. But unofficially there were a number of issues. Berman and Jones clashed over the fundamental importance of music to Trek- Ron wanted it to be synched to the action on screen, Berman wanted generic themes such as “Action”, “love” etc that could be played whenever called for. Also, Berman wanted the Enterprise sound effects- engine hum, the various beeps and Lcars sound effects to overshadow the music whereas Ron wanted the music more prominent. Finally, Ron and Berman clashed on Ron’s use of synthesizers for the Borg theme- he said it was to illustrate the mechanical nature of the Borg, whereas Berman thought it sounded cheap. Soon after the Borg two parter Jones was gone.
#85 - “I would just like to say I am lovin’ this conversation.”
Yeah, me too! I have to say I was mighty pleased when I read your initial comments about the “Romeo and Juliet” lift. It’s nice to run into someone who knows their art music **and** likes science fiction. My best friend is a composer, but doesn’t much care for sci-fi and my sci-fi buddies pretty much stick to rock music.
#92 - ” The guy was starting out in 1982 and had no body of work whatsoever!”
Actually, Horner had scored 14 films prior to ST II.
@90
Dear oh dear. You’ve completely forgot the Trek VI score.
#98 Ahem. I believe that was me, actually. :)
And the “Battle on the Ice” lift was not from Kije, it was from Alexander Nevsky.
It’s pretty shocking how bald-faced he is about his thefts, too; I grew up on Horner’s scores, and then when I started listening to real classical music I became more and more horrified.
Much of the score for Troy (which is what…2004?) is also blatantly stolen from Prokofiev. Horner’s a hack.
I loved Horner’s stuff. I love Goldsmith’s stuff. I hope Giacchino does something from himself (something new and fresh always lives on and gets the audience involved) but I’m hoping he pays more homage to the original show.
Those old guys who had studied with European masters and were steeped in the 20th century sound were masters of orchestration. That’s where it’s at for me.
When you listen to the original show they had guys that knew all the potential and limitations of the instruments of the orchestra. And used it! Like Crazy.
In one musical cue they would be stretching a bass clarinet from the lowest depths of it’s range to the highest. Or perfectly blending a trio of clarinet, bassoon, and flute to create a whimsical mood. That kind of stuff really connects to a listener on an emotional level whether they know what they’re listening to or not.
It seems that kind of treatment is a lot art in musical scoring. I miss it. But here’s hoping.
100
As far as borrowing….everyone borrows. Listen to John Williams. He’s a genius at borrowing the mood or little thematic ideas from the best. It’s how well you disguise it.
“Horner’s a hack. ”
A hack that made the best Trek scores beside TMP.
#103: With Eidelman and Rosenman as competition, that’s not saying much…
And yeah, I like Trek 2. It’s a hell of a fun score. It’s one of his more original ones too (though he riffs on Goldsmith’s “Patton” throughout most of the Khan bits).
And I don’t mind borrowing, 102, it’s outright lifting of ENTIRE PASSAGES (as Horner does) which is pretty offensive and incredibly lazy.
#98.
Amen. Hey, Philip K. Dick novels are *full* of classical music references. But that’s wayyy off-topic. . .
#100 - D’oh! Sorry about that!
And thanks for the correction on “Battle.”
“I grew up on Horner’s scores, and then when I started listening to real classical music I became more and more horrified.”
I had the exact same experience. It was a real shock and major disappointment (the ST IV score - as did Brainstorm - made a huuuge impression on me and I near idolized him).
I can’t think of another film composer that out-and-out thieves with anywhere near the frequency as Horner.
I agree with those who are happy about Giacchino scoring this movie. I’m only familiar with his “Incredibles” score, but it’s brilliant. I feel we’re in for a treat.
I’m sorry to hear so many denegrating James Horner, theme-cribbing or not. Two scores of Horners I haven’t heard mentioned are “The Rocketeer” and “A Beautiful Mind.” With the exception of a little Khan-like fanfare and some “tension’s building” theme work in Rocketeer, these two scores and that of TWOK have little or nothing in common, and are all excellent. Does anyone know if he lifted themes or styles for those two non-Trek films?
I’m surprised Michael “The Music of Star Trek” Hall hasn’t commented on this thread yet!
Scott B. out.
Again….everyone borrows. It’s just to the extent you’re able to integrate your essence into that differentiates you from your influences.
Listen to Strauss or Holst’s, The Planets and then listen to Superman and you’ll go, “hmm, I think John Williams was influenced by this.”
#107 - To be fair, Horner did have SOME original scores; I agree, the Rocketeer is beautiful, and (as far as I know, aside from some references to Wrath of Khan, as you said) fairly original. I enjoy his work for Krull too.
I just think a _lot_ of his stuff, especially his Trek stuff, is really, really unoriginal, alas.
I can’t wait to hear Giacchino’s take.
#92 Great observation re the relationship between Courage and Goldsmith. Courage orchestrated many of Goldsmith’s scores over the years.
Which leads me to a musical question that has puzzled me since 1979. I have no formal musical training, but can play guitar/piano/violin by ear. I have always thought that Goldsmith’s TMP theme was basically Courage’s main TOS theme (the long part from over the credits, not the fanfare) orchestrated as a march, rather than a sweeping melody. (I’m probably not saying this correctly, sorry). What I mean is that I think I hear essentially the same chord progression, but Goldsmith “marches” to the chord change, where Courage sweeps. Need one of you properly trained folks here…
As for Giacchino, I think he is a genius. The Incredibles, and Ratatouille are the two best scores of the last 20 years. Period.
As much as I loved TWOK, I was disappointed when 48 Hours came out in December of 82, and sounded like they were playing TWOK’s soundtrack behind it. Sounds like all he added was a steel drum. Aliens as well.
I hope the original theme music figures into the story: ie: the fanfare is revealed to be a trumpet call from a Federation world. It could even be stylized, but I’d love finding out that small things we’ve taken for granted turn out to have their origins in pre TOS. ENT was good at doing this, especially after Manny Coto took over.
I am a huge fan of Jerry Goldsmith’s work, and he certainly made his mark in Trekdom. His score for TMP is still the most grand, the most epic, imo.
James Horner’s score for TWOK was good, and worked well with the look and the mood of that film. But I had to smile when others previously mentioned the connection of this score to Horner’s “Battle Beyond the Stars” score, which I do remember (and thought no one else could have seen that film). I remember seeing TWOK the first time, all the while thinking, “This music sounds awfully familiar…”
Cliff Eidelman’s score for TUC is another one I like very much. I really appreciated its darker sound, and how it gave a Trek film a bit more edge… as opposed to the fluffy Leonard Rosenman score for TVH, which I didn’t care for.
I’ve been listening to Mr. Giachinno’s score for MI:III. I thought he did a great job melding pieces of the original series music into his own music. I think he will do a good job with Trek in this regard. Personally, I wouldn’t want him to do much more with the original series music than Goldsmith did in TMP. The rest of the score should be new and original, just as we hope the film, itself, will be.
Someone mentioned Hans Zimmer. All I know is, I can count the number of movies on one hand that gave me the same type of chill as did Gladiator. What a fantastic, emotionally-charged score!!
#97 OH, Really (!!?)….and where might this information be from??
Also, perhaps you would like to share YOUR opinion of Mr. Jones’ firing?
Do you think his work was inferior and that he deserved it?
That Berman’s “sonic wallpaper” concept worked brilliantly?? Hmmm???
(I just realized- I’m sounding like as much an arrogant a-hole as many others on this board have become. Gosh…)
#114
Information is from what I read in IIRC- a Cinefantastique issue around TNG’s 4th year when I noticed the music turned to shit- it was a end of the season review of Trek’s 4th year and featured many articles with one that focused on the music. Ron Jones was interviewed as towhy he was no longer on the show. if anyone has those Mark A Altman articles they can back me up on this. His critique’s of Trek were amazingly well done and researched- Berman eventually banned him from the sets because he wanted universally positive reviews rather than the balanced stuff Altman wrote.
As to my opinion of Ron’s firing- that was when Trek turned uninsipring for me. I still love DS9, and a few eps of VOY and TNG here and there, but I would give my left nut to hear truly inspiring scores on some of those DS9 space battles or character moments- I would give anything to hear what Ron would’ve come up with for “Sacrifice of Angels”.
I play Ron’s Best of Both Worlds soundtrack all the time- in 18 years it still hasn’t lost the ability to send chills down my spine- I can practically hear Riker say “we are about to intervene” to Locutus.
Berman’s decisions concerning the music might make business sense but he took the emotive quality out of the show. Capt Picard was already written as an aloof, emotionally spartan character, and the music being hobbled just added to that perception for me. Even the emotional, more human DS9 suffered because of it. I hope this new guy delivers some emotional resonance and feeling back to Trek.
#113….Zimmer copies from himself almost as much as Horner does. I was listening to “Pearl Harbor” and a buddy of mine asked if I was listening to “Gladiator” (which in turn has themes similar to “Crimson Tide”)…
I hope Giachinno uses Goldsmith’s Enterprise (for the starship) theme. Those unfamiliar listen to the music during the ship’s flyovers in “First Contact”, “Insurrection”, and “Nemesis”. Goldsmith even reprised his TMP “Enterprise in drydock” theme for the shot of the Enterprise-E in drydock near the end of “Nemesis”.
#115: I would give anything to hear what Ron would’ve come up with for “Sacrifice of Angels”.
If you’ll notice the composer David Bell basically did “Mars: God of War” from Holst’s “The Planets”. Pretty cool actually.
Most of the movie Gladiator is “Mars: God of War” from Holst’s “The Planets”. It drove me nuts the whole time I watched the movie. And the next year marching bands were doing that stuff on the field. I thought, “Why not do Holst instead?”
#117
“If you’ll notice the composer David Bell basically did “Mars: God of War” from Holst’s “The Planets”. Pretty cool actually”
I’ll have to check that out, I don’t remember the score standing out as Jones’s did.
Lemme illustrate my point about how genius this Jones guy is- for the Borg theme he hired a chorus to sing over a full wind and metal section orchestra, then took those elements and ran it through a synthesizer to mechanize the sound with reverbrations. To have the Borg- an entire race unified by mechanical elements represented by different voices and instruments all unified and similarly mechanized by synthesizer- tell me that aint genius.
And the effect is not immediately obvious- if you watch the show you hear the chorus, only later, if you have the soundtrack do you pick up on the subtle mechanical reverbrations of the synthesizer. I didn’t hear it myself until I read the Altman article on Jones, went out, bought the soundtrack and listened for it intently- brilliant and subtle.
Arrrrr….
Just started listening to Star Trek IV theme because of the postings that be here…
What’s so bad about it? Now I’ll just think “Christmas” every a’time I hear it!
“Captain…thar be waissaling here!”
Thanks… arrrrr….ha!
#120 - ““Captain…thar be waissaling here!””
That’s incredibly hilarious!!!!!!!
I’m in agreement with many of the people here.
So I’ll add this to the mix: If you want to listen to original series music… watch the original series. I mean lets face it, if they’re re-inventing the universe, why bother keeping the same musical themes?
No one wants to hear that outdated 60s music anyway, all those new potential fans who might see the film would be turned away.
#110 - Interesting point! I have to look into that!
#114, 115 - First of all, good to see there are more Ron Jones supporters here. He wrote the best scores for TNG. Incomparable to the LAAAA - DAAAA - ZZZZZ-scores from McCarthy (Great discription! Kuddo’s to SPB!). There’s this great anakdote where Berman barge’s in the scoring booth to Ron Jones shouting: “You can’t write anything un-emotional, can you!!” Jones, and McCarthy, were always trying to do more with the music, but Berman insisted on “no themes” and “no cutting into the sound-effects”. Even given these parameters, Jones wote great scores for episodes like Lonely Among Us, When The Bough Breaks and Boobytrap.
And in support to McCarthy, I’d urge everyone to digg into McCarthy’s V or The Utilizer. Great music.
And oh, to #98 - Not to be picky, but actually it’s 13. And for a composer with well over a hunderd scores to his name. I wouldn’t call 14 a lot. Besides, the music budget on Wolfen (wich was bigger than TWOK, by he way) was probably biger than the rest of the12 together. ANd as I said, more often than not, a composer, especially one starting out, will be asked to mimic something, like music on a temp-track. Horner was asked to come-up with TMP-like music, wich is evident during the Hephastus station (sp?) sequence. Battle Beyond the Stars (and Wolfen) got Horner the job for TWOK. And besides, Horner dated Goldsmith daughter at the time, so.. ;-)
I agree, If the film is good then it won’t matter if it tossess out a bit of Cannon. I would be kind of irked if it completly tossed out the book, and started fresh with these characters. I think Trek fans would watch it on the opening day, then boycott it by the tousands.
Go for an Oscar!!!
I already like the music in the teaser (there is a new theme, when “from the director j.j. abrams” appears). Does anybody know, if this is already new stuff ? Was that especially recorded for the teaser and composed by Giacchino?
#126 i agree… i love the teaser music and especially that part when Abrams name appears!
All i want to see in this movie is a similar theme and you’ve got to have the Klingon music (if they make an appearence) but most of all i really hope the classic trek fight music is used:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyhhFzE5O5U
#123 Doorchime; Thanks for reading the post. But you have me on the edge of my seat. Which one was my good point? I hope it was the one regarding the TMP theme’s relationship to TOS’ theme. We rarely get into interesting music talk around here, so if we don’t talk about it here, we probably never will. Thanks again.
I’m all about interesting music talk. What I say may not be interesting to anyone else but me, but I say my peace.
Alas, if only we had forums…
I’ve been a huge Giacchino fan ever since that one moment in The Incredibles at the start, you know, when the logo is first revealed and the theme plays up. That one, plus his work on M:I:III and Ratatouille (which I’m so happy and excited finally got him an Oscar nomination), he’s proven himself as the next great composer. I can’t wait to see his approach to Trek. From what it sounds like, and from what I’m hoping, is that he’ll do the same thing that he did with Mission: Impossible, do a big sounding score, that gives us a new, and probably the best, version of the classic theme, then uses his own themes, plus a bit of the themes from the original show that have kinda been “lost” over the years.
So, if Mr. Giacchino sees this, good luck! I know you’ll do an awesome job and can’t wait to hear it!
131
Well if you’re talking about the “in-credits” at the beginning of The Incredibles then you need to give some of that credit to Gordon Goodwin, of the Gordon Goodwin Big Band fame. He arranged that, from what I understand, and I believe he won an Oscar for that.
130
I kind of like the set up here. Although it I would like to opine on other subjects with like minded people at times, I know it must be enormous taking care of a site like this. I wonder sometimes when Anthony sleeps. After I’ve gotten the boy and the wife down for the night I often come back to the computer late and notice Anthony’s put up something new. And I think, “when does he sleep?” “When does he eat?” The hardest working guy in show biz.
I think James Horner had some nice music but was overall EXTREMELY unversatile, which is VITAL for composing movie music.
Jerry Goldsmith on the other hand, was a DAMN genius.
Check out his versatility…
-OUR MAN FLINT
-THE SAND PEBBLES
-PLANET OF THE APES
-PATTON
-TORA TORA TORA
-ANNA AND THE KING
-PAPILLON
-CHINATOWN
-LOGAN’S RUN
-THE OMEN
-BOYS FROM BRAZIL
-ALIEN and ALIENS
-STAR TREK the motion picture
-OUTLAND
-FIRST BLOOD
-POLTERGEIST
-TOTAL RECALL
-BASIC INSTINCT
-GLADIATOR
and a ton of TV stuff including the Twilight Zone.
Compare the OMEN to STAR TREK TMP, or LOGAN’S RUN to PATTON, or PLANET OF THE APES to OUR MAN FLINT. The guy had serious talent.
# 128 - That was it.
I hope I’ll come ’round to comparing the themes to more detail. But with the Rotterdam Filmfestival going on, there’s only so much time. If you know what I mean ;)
And yes, we *should* discuss music here! All hail Gerald Fried :D
http://www.supervisor194.com/sounds/piccolo.wav
a little music for a Friday.
#134 Doorchime.
Awesome, enjoy the flicks. I never took the time to noodle out the notes on the pie-anna. Maybe I have “wishful hearing”, but I’m pretty sure it is in there!
i would be delighted to hear Jerry Goldsmith’s theme in this movie =]
greetings from Brazil!!!!!!
Giacchino is my favorite living composer (him and Bear McCreary). I cannot wait ’til the soundtracks for SPEED RACER and STAR TREK.
I loved Goldsmith’s work — ST:TMP is a regular listen for me.
And agreed with Giacchino; those Speed Racer soundtracks are a hell of a lot of fun to listen to.
BTW, I’ll pay any price for Giacchino to put the “Amok Time” fighting music into the film.
(Secret lyrics to that music: “We are on STAR TREK and now we are fighting (fighting)… on an alien planet and FIGHTING (fighting)…) :)
Cool! Let’s hope Michael Giacchino’s score to the new “Star Trek” motion picture should incorporate the Alexander Courage-composed “Original Series” fanfare and theme (but not necessarily the Jerry Goldmsith-composed “Motion Picture” theme) and–if there’s a flashback scene involving a teenage James T. Kirk’s learning from (and discussion with) his elementary or middle school history teacher about Captain Jonathan Archer, skipper of the NX-01–the Dennis McCarthy-composed closing theme from the Trek prequel “Enterprise”.
#44
Definitely. The fight music is awesome every time. Hope it gets in.
“BTW, I’ll pay any price for Giacchino to put the “Amok Time” fighting music into the film.”
Dunno.
Ever since Eddie Murphy turned it into pron music it’s not the same (watch “Delirious” if you don’t know what I’m referring to)
#55–Yes, however unfortunately, STV is canon….It is difficult for me to even say, much less accept…but it is… I just threw up in my mouth a little…
#139–I’ll match every penny you put up!
#143 Hey Marine, I’m in for real cash if you get that in there!
But what’s up with the hate for STV? I look at all the movies as gifts we were never supposed to get. It’s another episode, worse than most, better than the TNGs because I get to see my favorite characters. There are some nuggets of acceptability in there. Kirks’ s line “Damn it, Bones, you’re a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can’t be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They’re the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don’t want my pain taken away! I need my pain!” is one of the most profound, and meaningful lines in all the ST movies. I never appreciated how good it was until the remastered Enemy Within just aired. Kirk knows he needs his pain. The Alternative Factor is FAR worse than STV.
#144 But what’s up with the hate for STV? I look at all the movies as gifts we were never supposed to get.
I agree, the TOS movies were gifts & The Shat back in the center seat as the authentic James T. Kirk is the gift JJ Abrams seeks to deny us.
#133
I’m in full agreement with you.
John Williams has gotten *a lot* of attention, and deservedly so, but in my book, Jerry Goldsmith was the best film composer ever. Unendingly versatile, creative and sensitive. He certainly had his influences but never stooped to the equivalence of photocopying a Picasso and calling it his own.
#108 - “Again….everyone borrows.”
There’s a huge difference between borrowing and outright theft. Taking 98% of the notes and 100% of the orchestration isn’t borrowing.
#123
I count 14:
The Watcher
Up From the depths
The Lady in Red
Humanoids from the Deep
Battle Beyond the Stars
Angel Dusted
The Hand
Wolfen
Deadly Blessing
A Few Days in Weasel Creek
The Pursuit of D.B. Cooper
A Piano for Mrs. Cimino
Rascals and Robbers
Sorceress
At any rate, I consider 14 scores a far cry from “no body of work whatsoever!”
“Besides, the music budget on Wolfen (wich was bigger than TWOK, by he way) was probably biger than the rest of the12 together.”
I don’t know how this possibly factors. Work is work, a job is a job, experience is experience.
“ANd as I said, more often than not, a composer, especially one starting out, will be asked to mimic something”
Granted, a point which I acknowledged earlier. So why don’t other composers fall into the same trap to the same degree?
“Horner was asked to come-up with TMP-like music”
Yet 98% of it doesn’t sound like Goldsmith’s score.
“And besides, Horner dated Goldsmith daughter at the time, so..”
So he disposed with Goldsmith’s score to impress his girl? — “I ilke you Jimmy, ’cause my parents hate you.” ;)
No one else be posting here anymore so here goes….
It be a loooooong road
Gettin’ from thar ta heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere….
Be a long time….
But me time has come at last!
And I will see me dream come alive at last
I will touch that thar sky
Anna I dunna hold them down me more
No Thar not gunna change me mind
I gots me that thar Faith in the Heart….
#148 - From a moment there I thought you were gonna sing “it’s a long road” from First Blood — another awesome Goldsmith-score ;)
#147 - Horner din’t write anything for Sorceress. It was tracked with Battle beyond the stars, as were quite a lot of Corman’s past-BBTS films.
And although I would never dare to state that Horner never borrows (that would be ridiculous indeed), I just ask to pay attention for the circumstances in wich filmscores are sometimes written. Most of the times compesers only get a few weeks to spot, compose and record the score. In small-budget films the time will be less than most big-budget films. (With the exception of replacement scores. Horner had only two weeks on Troy, reportedly)
Back on topic, Imm very, very satisfied that Giacchino is on board so damn early! He has the time to get insipred by the subject, come up with themes and establish a musical identity for the film. Not only because it’s a new Trek score, that fact makes me looking very foreward to Michael’s work.
#144–I just can’t stand Sybok, the frightened Romulan Ambassador, the broken down Klingons, Spock singing “Row, row, row your boat”, Scotty and Uhura acting like middle school sweethearts, the Enterprise being a “lemon”, and the whole concept of the “Planet Of Galactic Peace” that is inexplicably left to rot by the benevolent Federation.
There are a few “throw away” TOS episodes, sure–but I don’t re-watch those either, and for some reason, they seem a little less significant than a feature film which ends up being a Trek turd. To each his own, of course, but this Devil Dog prefers to pretend it never happened…
#145—That’s one gift that I would stand in line the day after Christmas to return.
# 150 Fair enough, and I agree with every point. I almost never rewatch STV all the way through. All the things you cite aggravate me, but I look at it this way; it is still the real cast. Saying and doing stupid things, but I enjoy a few moments. Moments. For my taste, I would choose to watch STV over any TNG movie. Just my preference.
Carry on.
STV:TFF is the one film truest to TOS & the only one to solely focus on the Kirk/Spock/McCoy bond. It does have severely flawed FX, but in all it’s a rousing ‘fasten your seatbelt’ adventure helmed by The Shat.
It’s very sad how Paramount is giving JJ a blank check to delete 42 years of canon but refused to fund Shat’s Special Director’s Edition DVD re-imagining of STV, the final TOS era adventure with the entire Enterprise crew intact (before Sulu got delusions of grandeur & defected to the Excelsior ).
131
Well if you’re talking about the “in-credits” at the beginning of The Incredibles then you need to give some of that credit to Gordon Goodwin, of the Gordon Goodwin Big Band fame. He arranged that, from what I understand, and I believe he won an Oscar for that.
Actually, the moment I’m talking about is in the film, right at the start when, just as they fade out from the interviews to reveal The Incredibles shield. It’s on the soundtrack as “The Glory Days” (right at the start). But everything that Mr. Giacchino did for that film, M:i:III and Ratatouille has been incredibly (no pun intended) awesome! Definitly an added bonus to get him in scoring this thing. It’s already looking to be an awesome film, and this is just gonna make it better.
Our Mikey G did Ratatouille,
And MI3 with Mister Tom Cruisey,
The Incredibles were great
Because of his trait
Of brass sections that like to go “blooie”.
#152—Sulu’s “defection” to comman of the Excelsior was one of the only things that really made sense in the last two original films about the pattern of some of thier careers. How could they have all reamained stuck under Kirk’s command? Was he blackballing their rise in Starfleet? Why are their two “captains” on the bridge? How many “commanders(rank, not position)” could the Enterprise have on board?