More Trek Plot Rumors February 2, 2008
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Uncategorized , trackbackOur friends over at ScreenRant, who have a good track record, have some more Star Trek rumors for you to enjoy. A snippet below and they do involve [SPOILERS]
Alternative Timelines…Oh My
According to ScreenRant the new Strar Trek involves not just the previously reported (and confirmed by TrekMovie.com) time travel, but also alternative timelines. TrekMovie.com has previously noted that one of the influences for the new Star Trek is the classic TNG alternative timeline episode “Yesterday’s Enterprise.” But ScreenRant has a nice new spoilery tidbit:
…in an alternate timeline there will be a significantly different version of the NCC-1701. From what I’ve been told it will be a very kick-ass version - essentially an all-out warship.
Of course alternative timelines are nothing new to Star Trek. The above mentioned “Yesterday’s Enterprise” is only one of dozens of episodes that have some form of alternative timeline. They have also shown up in the films; Star Trek Generations and Star Trek First Contact (and arguably Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home) use alternative timelines.
ScreenRant also notes that part of the film takes place in the time of Star Trek The Next Generation. TrekMovie.com has reported that Nimoy’s Spock starts off in a post-TNG setting and it isn’t clear at this time if this is what they are referring to. In our October interview with Star trek co-writer Roberto Orci, he was clear that there there were references to TNG that were “pivotal to the story.”
For more check out ScreenRant.
Alternative timeline in “Yesterday’s Enterprise”
Comments»
Doesn’t sound very impressive to me.
I miss ST TNG
Wow, will I be the first on a post referring to my own site? :-)
Cool.
Vic
Interesting, I suspected that Leonard’s Spock would be in TNG time.
This doesn’t seem to be a spoiler, as much as a confirmation of what people were thinking all along…
Can you verify this, Anthony?
Oh, and just so you guys know… I withheld a REALLY big spoiler (that I’m sure Anthony knows about as well) because I have no intention of ruining this movie for anyone.
Vic
Well, it would have to be in the TNG timeline at some point, no? How else to explain Nimoy’s age? That’s not too spoilery. Alternate universes? Cool. We get Spock with a goatee at some point in this movie and half the posters on this board will geek out and have coronaries in the theater!
That sounds crazy, but cool. I look forward to it!!
C’mon, Vic! What’s the deal?!!
i want a patrick stewart cameo.
Sorry, Crusty. If you want no holds barred spoilers big enough to ruin the movie experience you’ll have to head on over to IESB.net. I care too much about my readers to step too far over the line.
Best,
Vic
Cool, this is what I sort of suspected all along, and if it does come to pass it sounds very cool. I just hope we don’t spend too much time in the 24th century unless it’s WAY past TNG’s time. Sorry, but that whole era hold no appeal to me at all.
And a BIG thank you to ScreenRant, and Anthony as well if you truly are holding back.
I have no need to know every little detail and I appreciate the efforts of those that willingly keep the lid on the pot.
i come to this site to ruin the movie. to get spoiled!!! so u wont hurt my feelings.
Hmmm…sounds a bit overdone and annoying. I think I would have preferred a high quality story that doesn’t resort to the forced and artificial drama of alternative timelines to remain compelling. Alternative timelines have have been done so many times before. A story of the genesis of the original crew seems more than enough to keep me interested. But I will keep an open mind of course, and hope it’s good.
7.
While I appreciate that, it’s going to drive me nuts.
It’s going to be a long wait for Christmas.
Bless you, Vic — you bastard!
This movie is going to rock my socks and shoes off.
I want Quark in this movie!
Alternate Timelines, tribbles, time travel…
I’m starting to have doubts. I know that this is going to be different, but why does it have to be impossible to follow?
Sounds like an episode of Lost, intriguing.
So we know Spock goes back in time wonder if he steals the Enterprise E to do it.
And is the beautiful new supergigantor E we have seen the superbattleship E??? Or reimaginined E ???
And who is in the coffin Jack visits on Lost, could it in fact be Spock ????
I like the idea of old Spock finding one day that everything he knew is gone, indicating that someone has messed with the timeline — like a massive multilevel simultaneous attack that he needs help to fight… He goes back and brings together the original crew of the enterprise, figuring that even young and inexperienced they will have the traits they need to get the job done. Knowing that he can never perfectly undo the damage that has been done, he simply does his best, and hopes it will be good enough for key future events to play out in a similar way. That’s the reason for the epic battle across timelines, and explains any changes to cannon.
Re spoilers:
“After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical. But it is often true.”
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
Maybe that’s why Yelchin saw Klingons. Bet the Battle-E kicks their ridge-covered arses back across the neutral zone!
Greetings and felicitations, Vulcanista!
My above guess would also make sense in a symetrical sense, since JJ referenced ‘Yesterday’s Enterprise.’ They were fighting Klingons because of a missed opportunity involving a battle with the Romulans. So, this would go along with that timeline. (Kinda — this is where my head starts to hurt.)
I love Lamp…… and Spoilers
11.
Yeah buddy! Patrick Stewart Cameo!
Well if no one else will say it then ScreenRant STFU.. if you need to promo your site go elsewhere… I for one don’t GAF if your right or wrong… just wrong to use this one as a springboard.
Sorry Tony couldn’t help meself.
Meh. It’ll probably still be good, but I agree that I would have been happy with a straightforward “genesis” of TOS story line.
After setting the timeline right Spock stops off in 1997 to Pon Far Carmen Electra
Greetings, CmdrR!
All I really want them to do is tell me a good story. That hasn’t changed since I was three, and it’s not going to change anytime soon.
PS: How’s that young’un of yours coming along? Is it done yet? :)
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
Back to Mirror, Mirror.
I for one like time travel stories in Trek….
…and I wonder if the big giant spoiler that cannot be spoken involves…. the Shat?????? :D
He was due today, Vulcanista. Must be a fluxuation in the chronoton collated gestation field. I hope to have a bouncing baby geek soon. I’m so psyched about all the cool ST toys he’ll be getting that are just for him and not for his father to play with really no foolin.
Amen to good storytelling. I don’t know if 126 pages means a two hour movie, or if there’s a lot of time burned up in FX. (Wonder how many pages of screenplay it took to write the psychadelic tunnel at the end of 2001?) This movie certainly feels overstuffed, but if it keeps chuggin, then they can mess with the timelines a little, I suppose.
Oi. I’m with others in that, while I certainly don’t think all this time travel and alternate timelines stuff will make it a BAD movie, I would have preferred a more straightforward storyline. Time travel storylines have of course been done very well in Trek… but they have already been done many, many times.
#34
Countdown begins…
Good luck!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#33
Really?
Ya think? ;-)
Would be cool, indeed.
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
I told you Closettrekker,
From TOS:
J.J.’s teaser trailer mirror Footage of Steelworkers building war-machines in WWII.
From Trekmovie.com:
From what I’ve been told it will be a very kick-ass version - essentially an all-out warship.
———————
Ps Thank God, it maybe an alternative timeline and does not have to with the TOS Timeline. But, why did J.J. not make his own crew??????
If you are dealing with alternate timelines, do we see a old James T. Kirk in there somewhere?
There is your way out, timeline is altered and Kirk survives…
Alternate timeline… Ehh… I mean, yeah, it’s a way to preserve canon so the original storyline is not tampered with, but… I dunno.
I guess I’m just skeptical because I still hate seeing all that history go to waste.
It’s still 11 months from release, I could be worrying about nothing.
YUBinit
warning for just being rude
screenrant vic is welcome here anytime
#34 CmrdR
PS: Post in the chat folder when the little geek/geekala finally arrives!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
YUBinit,
Um, if you notice, Anthony mentioned my site in the post, dude.
Thanks for your polite words.
Best regards,
Vic
Wow, this just keeps sounding more interesting. How, tell me HOW I’m supposed to wait until December >>>>>>> :(
Yes, Mike T. In an alternate time line Kirk could still be aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive!
So there it is, a reboot using an alternate timeline as the explanation. So no worries about canon violation.
Unless the alt. timeline seen is the changed one, and the real one is reestablished by the end.
So many questions!
I prefer to stay open minded and use wait and see attitude about the rumors surrounding the story.
I’m not seeing a coherent story here, just a lot of canon erasing.
Just bring back The Shat & revive the authentic James T. Kirk.
This is the cherry on top! I’m am now fully revved up! Didn’t Orci or someone say we’d hear the name “Picard”? Alternate Enterprises? Hell yeah!
It is possible that the Shat will be in the movie thanks to the spoilers.
Forgive me for staying away from this article…
There is a breakthrough in the Hollywood and Writers talk.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080202/striking_writers_080202/20080202?hub=TopStories
I wouldn’t mind seeing Tasha Yar again. That reminds me. I ran into Chris McDonald when I was moonlighting in a little bar in Hollywood back in 2001. I mentioned to him how Yesterday’s Enterprise was my favorite episode. He laughed and said to me, “The funny thing is in 20 years that’s the only thing I’ll be remembered for.” True story. Nice guy.
I’m intrigued more than ever! Classicaly most of the best stories have involved time-travel, so this one sounds like it could be rocking-and-rolling all over the inter-multi-dimensional time map, with plot twists around ever corner!
I look forward to the fun! :))
The thing all you canonites are failing to come to grips with is the fact that time travel IS canon. If time travel is canon then you must accept that infinite timelines are also canon because once the timeline has been traveled it has also been changed! The very act of moving through time will bring change, however small. Someone much smarter than me said that. Asimov? That sure as heck ain’t JJ’s fault.
Well said, Rocker Girl.
whopper of a spoiler?
The alternate timeline is kind of obvious from Mr. Orci’s “Star Trek Zero” reference and that it would be “in canon”: it is not a reboot per se but a change to an alternate timeline. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. It is in effect a reboot.
One of the arguments against sticking to canon is that it would be a hinderance in making a movie that mainstream audiences could follow.
So, alternate timelines would be easier for mainstream audiences to follow?
I just want to see the “real” timeline; the “real” Star Trek. Time travel has been done to death in Star Trek and done badly (temporal cold war).
Can they not do just a straight forward, non-time travel story?
I really want a Patrick Stewart cameo. Capt Picard is just as important to the Trek legacy as Kirk and Spock. Of all the “new” series set in the 24th century, Picard is the best loved character. The fact that he and Spock have a connection (due to his mind meld in TNG with both Surak and Spock) makes his appearance in the new film a possible important one, if they choose to put him in it.
“Yesterday’s Enterprise” was my all time favorite episode of TNG! I’m so excited that the movie will be taking influence from that awesome episode!
That sounds awesome! Alternate timelines create really interesting dramatic avenues.
I hate to do a shameless plug, but we’re really short on RP players. We have an NX-01 era RP called Star Trek: Poseidon - The Birth of the Federation. It’s awesome. Join up with us please?
http://www.ussposeidon.net/botf/
Sounds worse all the time.
15
Agreed. I really hope Abrams can keep this from being too much of a gimmicky, plot-heavy movie.
In my opinion that was the thing that sank the franchise in the first place. Instead of just telling stories about CHARACTERS, Berman and his writers began focusing too much on all these weird, twisty, high concept gimmicks.
To me it’s compelling enough that you’ve got people exploring the unknown depths of space in a fantastic starship.
Interesting…
In other words, I really hope we don’t have ourselves another “Nexus” here….
AICN ran this story about alternate time lines months ago. We have known that the series will keep the established time line and create an alternate for since last year.
I think it’s a pretty cool idea. It keeps everyone happy.
Any ideas on what that big spoiler is all about?
link to iesb and the major spoiler?
65.
“I think it’s a pretty cool idea. It keeps everyone happy.”
Not everybody.
A Warship version of the NCC 1701 sounds awesome!
I’m willing to bet that Shatner is the spoiler they’re keeping under wraps.
Spock in TNG era make sense with a Romulan villain and the last we saw of Spock he was on Romulus in “Re-unification”
I just looked at iesb.net and could not find what the major spoiler was
I thought the Enterprise we saw in the trailer was this warship he was referring to………
#52 elmachocombo “I ran into Chris McDonald”
Cool post! Isn’t it true that back in the audition days for TNG Chris McDonald came close to being cast as Riker, but Roddenberry opted for Jonathan Frakes instead? Frakes seems nice enough as a person, but McDonald is clearly the better actor! The whole dynamic for TNG could have been so much different and better with McDonald working with Patrick Stewart lo these many years. Just another example of where Gene had his head up his ass with a consistent pattern of making stupid decisions! Shame!
#69 I’m hoping so too!!!! Shat could just be throwing us all off with the fuss. All will be forgiven when we see him back on the screen, or even Nimoy ending the movie with a suprise smile saying “Jim!” like in Amok Time. This movie needs to right the wrong done with Generations while Shat is here to play the part. If they can bring Spock back in III, they can bring Kirk back in XI. I almost feel it would be out of character for Spock not to go after him after what Kirk did for him. It should be easy to do with alternate time lines taking place! Didn’t Kirk think that he would die alone? He didn’t in Generations. He needs a proper death….someday.
Other bonuses this movie could give us:
“Fleet Captain April” giving Pike command of the Enterprise :-)
Carol Marcus
Number One and with a name!
Gary Mitchel
J class starships
As a super-spoiler fan, would it be possible for someone to publish the big spoilers somewhere, maybe with a double opt-in sign-up kind of situation?
I don’t want people to casually come across anything that might ruin the experience for them, but for those of us who like this sort of thing, and respect others enough not to let it out, it would be very much appreciated.
And yes, I’m the guy that reads the end of the book first. I just don’t like surprises, what can I say?
The only thing that bugs me is if you know a super big spoiler. And do not what to tell anyone, don’t say anything about it. Please Vic I hope you do not think I am attacking you. But its such a tease to tell that you know a big secret about the movie, and not tell.
#76 “you know a big secret about the movie, and not tell”
Yeah, there’s nothing worse than a plot-teaser! :)
When I first heard the new TREK film was to be a time travel story, I was bitterly disappointed, but then I thought maybe the film makers would find a new approach to an over-used and convoluted sci-fi concept.
If there is any truth to this story, it looks like my worst fears have been realized. Unlike most fans, I was never that big a fan of YESTERDAY’S ENTERPRISE–just seemed too gimmicky a story and now it appears we may get too gimmicky a movie.
The Guardian of Forever concept sounded a lot more interesting to me.
Hmm…interesting , we shall have to see where all of it leads Dec. 25th!
78. To be honest, “Yesterday’s Enterprise” is one of my favorite TNG episodes. Also, personally, I think The Guardian of Forever idea was MUCH more “gimmicky.” But that’s just my opinion! :-p
Harry, I can tell you Frakes is a nice guy too. When I was living in L.A. I occasionally worked on film sets. One gig was a little Disney flick called Clockstoppers. Frakes was the director and had everybody laughing alot. I think we were both happy to have a job! Small world. Just first impressions, but Chris has a certain presence that I think would have been much better suited to the right hand man on the Enterprise. Frakes’ Riker always struck me as a bit of a blow-hard.
Why does this movie seem worse every time I find out more about it??
It’s pretty lame, and it shows how much they don’t even really understand or like the Star Trek universe, if they feel Gene’s vision is so inadequate that they have to make their own version of it in an “alternate universe.”
If they are intending this film for a general film audience as well as for the fans, why are they writing a time travel episode? This I feel will add complexity to the storyline and may confuse the non-Trek fans who don’t know the details as intimately as us.I feel the best solution was for the film’s writers to have concentrated on a story which is set in one time period. And, if they wanted to introduce other time periods, then this could be pursued in a later film.
This is not promising news. The last film written by a fan failed at the box office, and I fear the same may happen for this film.
(This film shares some common plot ideas with a Voyager episode where Seven of Nine is recruited by 29th century Starfleet agents in an effort to preserve the time period. )
#83
Unfortunately that was one of the episodes of Voyager I actually LIKED. I’ve been watching Star Trek since I was a little kid so all this time travel business is no big deal. However I have to wonder how the general movie audience is going to stomach all this alternate time line stuff.
Purist, we’ve been over this before. Gene is dead. Nobody but the New Voyages guys are going to live up to “Gene’s vision” as you see it. And where do you get this notion that JJ and co. see what came before them as “inadequate”? You seem to enjoy shoehorning a lot of baggage between the lines. You seem desperate to convince yourself that this is going to be a bad experience. That is unfortunate. Life is too short. Based on everything I’ve read this sounding more and more like an epic adventure movie the likes of which we haven’t seen in a loooooong time. Sh*t! Even my dad is excited and he hasn’t been to movies since we saw E.T.! Call me naive, but I want this to be a rip-roaring roller-coaster of a movie with great music, a great villain, lots of surprise twists, and an “Oh my God!” ending, not a 2 hour episode of yaaaaaawn.
MAJOR SPOILER!
Spock has to travel into the past and rescue the crew of the Enterprise from an alternate time line in which his comrades are all 20th century actors with different names doing a TV show called “Star Trek.”
Spock: “Jim, listen to me. My mind to your mind. You are not William Shatner. You are Captain James T. Kirk. Do you understand? Captain James T. Kirk!”
Kirk: “I am Captain James T. J. Hooker…”
Spock: “No Jim! Pay attention! Were running out of time!”
I could be okay with time travel and an alternate universe for some part of the film. I’m not really thrilled about either one, because as folks have said, we’ve seen this before, and IMHO both are hugely over-used plot gimmicks, but I can go with it.
However…
For me, the key issue still devolves back to the same question I’ve been asking since the first rumors happened. To wit: “Is the Trekverse in which this film ends, and in which future films would be expected to take place, the same, or so close that it really doesn’t make a difference (a la “Yesteryear”), to the one in which all the rest of Trek (except for clearly demarcated exceptions such as the Mirrorverse) has taken place?” If yes, then it’s all good as far as I’m concerned, though I’m also pretty sure that this sort of stuff is not going to remotely contribute to gaining new audience for Trek. If not, if this is some sort of backdoor [ptui!] reboot, with the concomitent lame excuse-making that “we’re not doing anything to canon, because it’s an alternate universe now”, then add me to the disappointed/disillusioned crowd, and TPTB can start counting the money they won’t be getting from me in repeat viewings.
I liked “Yesterday’s Enterprise”, and I thought the War Universe was a fairly effective way of showing how messed-up things could get, but at the end of the episode, the proper universe had been restored/returned to, and I have no less of an expectation for this film. I hope that the team can live up to that.
I have a bad feeling that the major spoiler is………….KCOPS SEID
@23 The Vulcanista
Truer words were never spoken.
I predicted this alternate timeline theory in the post teaser Orci reply thread in a moment of wild fanboy hyper-extrapolation specifically regarding why the ship could be different but I was aiming for cheap laughs due to it being just a bit TOO much.
Be careful what you wish for…
Ahh, it could work… If they do it, be prepared to have to explain alternate timelines to all your Significant Others and any other poor souls you drag along to opening night…
89 - nah, I think it is ………………. TAHS SI NI EHT EIVOM :D
i scoured iesb.net and really didn’t find anything there that would suggest a rumor that ruins the film for me….
but the above is making me cringe a bit. multiple time periods, alternate timelines…??
will wait and see
to be honest, was kind of hoping most of these time travel rumors were false, and that we would see a TOS-Menagerie style stroryline (i.e. Spock shows the past)
regardless of anything, still will be there in line Christmas Day at midnight. Less than 11 months to go ! looking forward to it
“# 1. Penhall - February 2, 2008
Doesn’t sound very impressive to me.”
Hard to make that call. But then if this was any of the other 10 movies and we were hearing certain aspects of those films this early on, I’m sure plenty of people would be saying the same thing.
It’s all in the execution and if it’s made as a good movie folks. Christmas isn’t here yet, so don’t freak out. It’s safe to sleep tonight because the sun WILL come out tomorrow ;)
“to be honest, was kind of hoping most of these time travel rumors were false, and that we would see a TOS-Menagerie style stroryline (i.e. Spock shows the past)”
We already had a movie somewhat like that, it was called “The Inconvenient Truth.”
#87 - LOL
Alternative timelines losing their way into the TNG timeline, old Spock starting off in a post-TNG setting, then travelling back to meet his younger self, explaining to him the wisdom of friendship while chatting to baby Kirk whose slightly elder self is busy beating the Kobayashi Maru computer while trying to prevent himself from being killed by Nero’s second henchman, then travelling back (or forth?) in a significantly different version of the NCC-1701 in order to re-invigorate his relationship with his now considerably younger father…
And throughout that entire time travelling hassle and changing from one alternative timeline to another, old Spock keeps twisting his mind with that one burning question “Is there nothing more“?
Spock is travelling back in time to kill Kirk.
They probably have to do a timeline story so they could put Leonard in it and make it an active role. But I hope the next one doesn’t involve time travel.
Pretty please?
Alternate time line? Warship Enterprise?
Sounds like “Of Gods and Men.”
Man, you yanks get worked up about this stuff. Chill out and wait for the movie, then debate based on fact and not speculation… In the meantime, there’s a big world out there, try leaving your bedrooms for a while
Stanky… remember over a year ago when I called you “Spanky” by mistake? Boy, those were the good old days. We had to walk miles to school rather than ride shuttlecrafts…we didn’t beam down because the transporter didn’t work right…we sucked up radiation from warped baffle plates…and we liked it!! One beep for yes…two for no.
#1: “Well, what WOULD you like?”
Here we have a new Trek with a massive budget and a massive creative vision–what else do you want? I mean, really. Movies can only do so much. Maybe it’s time to convert to a new religion, or something. I’m an old school Trekker (Trekkie, whatever) and I can’t stress enough that while Trek as a mythology deserves respect; cowering before its sometimes rabid fan base is a sure-fire way to failure. Make your movie. Knock it out of the park. I rather suspect most of us will be there. The “Littleness” of the discussion is just nauseating sometimes. This is why Shatner did the SNL skit. Can you blame him?!
#20 Josh ; #48 Sybok Amok ; and others…
I have to laugh at these comments about the movie sounding “incoherent” or “impossible to follow.” I guarantee you all that J.J. has a complete script to work off– not just a few stray threads of partial stories. Give me a break!
So, we get alternate timelines and with those it is not possible to include an older Kirk?
The excuse by JJ Abrams gets eben more ridiculous by this…
Ahhh, not the Shatner argument *again*
#106
Agreed.
I couldn’t imagine Abrams’ excuses to get even *more* ridiculous, but the sky‘s the limit…
#8. “Alternate universes? Cool. We get Spock with a goatee at some point in this movie and half the posters on this board will geek out and have coronaries in the theater!”
They said alternate timelines NOT alternate universes. There’s a difference!
See this is how they could have brought Shatner back with alternate timelines!!!! But that would be to easy!
The people involved have described this product as a kind of reboot for the franchise. Of the two other ‘reboots’ I know of, the most successful for me was the film Batman Begins. instead of complicating the film with unnecessary details, they simply created a believable, fun origin story that wasn’t hard for me as a non-Batman fan to enjoy. This is the best approach I think for re-energizing the franchise.
Instead, what do we have? An overly complex time travel story involving different eras of the Trek history with the elder Spock doing something to keep time on track (isn’t that always the case in these stories)? Why don’t we have a simple origin story, showing the crew’s first voyage? I read a Star Trek novel where this approach was attempted. This would be such a better idea.
I have faint hopes for this film. After the debacle with Nemesis, I am wary of fans writing Star Trek movies. They inevitably want to impress the other fans with their knowledge of the franchise and create a story that they may like, not necessary other fans and the general audience may like, and what is created is a mess.
This film may end up a DVD rental for me.
AWESOME ABOUT TNG LINKS im just hoping they don’t make it too complicated for non fans and it ends up like a long episode and fails like nemesis due to lack of appeal.
Interesting except for one small thing, rumors about this film have a amazing ability to turn out to be a load of dog doo. Remember the City on the Edge of Forever story line. What about the protestors outside the acadamy.
LLAP
105
Good point. If memory serves, we gave him a whole script that said “THE END at the end.
RE major spoilers, it would be good if the site put spoilers in say white text on a white background so the user has to high light them to see what it says. Often reports contain other interesting non spoiler info and it’s hard not to read the spoiler bits…
I thought that the movie will be a TOS movie. Now there is a TNG part in it. I personally never liked TNG. Except Data. Are they not capable of, simply telling a real TOS Story, without Time Traveling and the Mirror Universe? :(
115
Correction — message just from me.
There is no Star Trek without The Shat, this movie will be no part of canon than New Voyages. Shat is the Letter of Authenticity for anything Trek.
A true ‘reboot’ would be restoring Kirk to the Enterprise B & delete TNG, DS9, VOY & ENT from canon. Star Trek is about Kirk. Lets bring Shat home in XI & make Star Trek XII, XIII, and onwards about James T. Kirk’s new voyages aboard the flagship USS Enterprise-F, with Spock back at his side & a new crew warping into the 25 century.
I RECKON ERIC BANAS CHARCTER NERO IS IN FACT SPOCKS SON AND THAT HIS MOTHER WAS THE ROMULAN BIRD IN TOS THAT SPOCK GOT IT ON WITH!
ahh i feel so much better having got that off my chest!
ENTERPRISE Vs ENTERPRISE?
*YAWN*
So far we’re going boldly where every Trek series has been before. Big deal.
The irony of the “oh no time travel” arguement is that the most finacially successful Trek movies used time travel in the main plot. However this alternate timeline story sounds a bit much to handle. Hopefully the action and the nuances of the story will make non fans appreciate the whole deal. If not at least it should be entertaining!
This fits with the very first spoilers on AICN - an alternate in which Vulcan is toast and Spock is the last of. If I recall, there was talk that this would reboot the franchise into an alternative universe.
I hope the Big Spoiler is Shatner.
I don’t mind timetravel as a vehicle connection the “old” Trek universe with the “new”, but I always hated alternate timeline stories like Yesterday’s Enterprise or the Mirror Universe.
above should read “… connecting…”
What really bothers me is the fact that I feel as thought this movie is getting so complicated with alternate timelines, time travel, characters from multiples eras of Star Trek, and a plethora of alien species, that this movie is going to be too elaborate for the average moviegoer. Abrams claimed that this movie will appeal not only to Star Trek fans but also people who know nothing about Star Trek.
…at this rate, the movie isn’t going to make sense to anyone. Especially fans like us who will try our hardest to try and piece everything together (even at much expense to our sanity). I’m still quite optimistic for this new take on Star Trek but I’m afraid JJ is going to alienate people more than welcome them to the franchise.
#123 that wouldn’t make sense There are millions of Vulcans on Thousands of planets and Starships plus it sounds to me they took the Doctor Who plot with that story and replaced Galifey with Vulcan and the Doctor with Spock…or though DW did pinch the half human idea from Spock perhaps its karma
-An alternative timeline sounds better than ‘a remake’..this is one of the things that i liked in ” Enterprise”
The rants against time travel continue to amuse. The most popular episodes and movies have time travel elements.
There is an illogical disconnect here.
The adventure continues…
I for one loved every time-travel episode, i especially loved it when time repeated itself (al la Cause and Effect) so i am really REALLY excited about this film!
TNG era was my favourite era, i only liked the TOS movies and the “better episodes”. DS9 was really political which was a bore, but then turned into a kick ass show, however, although i did really like it, it was never as captivating as TNG trek. I also loved VOY, I was f***in sick of Klingons, Cardassians and Alpha Quadrant species that i needed a break, VOY gave me this break and was really well done IMO. ENT… well lets say I only watched 5 episodes… the theme tune was enough to p!ss me off!!
so in conclusion my trek ratings go like this:
1-TNG
2-TOS (Movies, Balance of Terror, the menagerie, COTEOF, [good episodes])
3-VOY
3-DS9
4-NV
100000000000000000000000000000000000-ENT
As you can see i prefer latter trek and with this trek, time “stuff” was ace, and although i still haven’t seen Mirror, Mirror i’m sure it rocked!
As for the “Big secret” - its Shat.
Will this movie suck? - no.
Should they make Star Trek: Titan a series? - YES DAMNIT!
Should Picard have a cameo? - yes.
Should Archer, April, Garrovick, Mitchell, Finney and that Irish bully (who i can never remember his name) get a cameo? - YES DAMNIT!
rant over.
(BTW I am only 20 - TNG i grew up with)
SPOILER ALERT…From an Insider on set. Spock will meet with the King of the Tribble Empire and Kirk will be brought back to marry the Tribble Queen….this will be Canon, in years to come.
#119
Wow! Finally an original thought - most of the lame fanboys and fangurls around here are endlessly rehashing the same tired speculations and scenarios for bringing back tired has-been actors.
Nero being the offspring of Spock’s liason with the Romulan Commander of the Enterprise Incident would be a cool tie-in with TOS.
to u guys still bashing JJ about the Shat- it seems that the end of the film would have involved kirk surviving in a slightly different timeline as a reward/pay off/ insentive for welcoming this alt timeline but the Shat wouldnt do a cameo so it is he who is responsible for him not appearing in the film.
he wanted a big part- this want going to happen and he ultimately robbed us of witnessing Kirks return in the movie/post next generation universe.
I like the idea that Species 8472 have invaded the alpha quadrant at the end of the movie after Spock brings the Alternate crew to the 24th century they fight alongside Riker and the Titan to Repell a 8472 attack after the alternate universe is destroyed by Nero
Yes, please no serious spoilers that you could easily happen upon. I like the veil of secrecy building up the anticipation. Same thing with Cloverfield, the build up and intrigue from the viral was exciting, and the movie the best cinema experience I have had for years. The movie was way better than the hype build up, and I expect even more from JJ’s team’s Trek. I was so blown away by Cloverfield, without question the best monster movie of all time for me and my brother.
#81, hey did you work on the set at the Boeing plant in Downey. I worked on Clockstoppers as well and Frakes was a great guy! I’m glad Roddenberry picked him.
^
Okay, gang, let’s just accept that Roberto, et al, have Spock going back to fight the NBC executives that cancelled TOS. Expect Jorge Garcia to step in as BelushiKirk. Mark it down. That would mesh up perfectly with the script I bought on ebay from user “THE_FRINGEDUP_ALLSPARKED_TREKKIE”
I will say this though. If Bana’s “Nero” gets anywhere near a fiddle, or has one on a wall in his quarters. I will throw up in my mouth a little. That would reek of writer’s hackery.
#118. You have got to be drunk on Tranya.
#126, what’s so hard to grasp. Its an alternate timeline. Ghesssh your a Trek fan and you can’t handle this concept.
I am not impressed. I hate time travel and alternate timeline plots. But these are only rumours.
I have reservations about all this talk of time travel and alternate timelines. They’re Clichés that Trek has worked itself into over the years. Now we’re being told that they’re both stuffed into one movie, and that we’ll get to see an Enterprise warship? I have great faith in the people doing this movie, they’re all supremely talented, but these rumors do nothing for me. We’ve been there so many times….when will Star Trek being about exploration of ideas, worlds and spirituality again? I hope the rumors are false and that we get to see something fresh.
#142 “I hope the rumors are false and that we get to see something fresh.”
I hope it too.
80. Freddie Wise wrote:
To be honest, “Yesterday’s Enterprise” is one of my favorite TNG episodes. Also, personally, I think The Guardian of Forever idea was MUCH more “gimmicky.” But that’s just my opinion! :-p
The bottom-line, to me, is City on the Edge of Forever was a love story. Yesterday’s Enterprise was about the mechanics of plot and time-travel mumbo-jumbo with a love story thrown in. I never thought the love story in COTEOF was incidental. The love story in YE, felt forced and contrived. And, of course you can see how the YE story was ripped from COTEOF.
The best comparison I can think of in a broad sense is comparing Back to the Future 1 and 3, to BTTF 2. The former were about the characters and human feelings. BTTF 2 was just plot, plot, plot, mechanics, mechanics, mechanics, gimmicks, gimmicks, gimmicks. I get this feeling from YE as well, though not as much as BTTF 2, but compared to COTEOF, it comes off that way to me as well.
. TOS explored time travel 5 times. FIVE times. 4 episodes out of 79 dealt with time travel. ONE movie out of 6, dealit with time travel..
I don’t care if time-travel wore out it’s welcome in the spin-offs, this is TOS we’re talking about here and TOS handled time travel quite well. The only TOS movie to deal with time travel was the most successful movie all ALL Trek movies. So all this belly aching about “I’m so sick of time travel” just doesn’t hold any water. You may just have a dislike for the concept in general, but you can’t hate it because it’s been done to death. Not in the TOS universe anyway.
The whole idea reminds me of one of my favorite movies, Nicholos Meyer’s Time After Time. Chasing someone through time can be quite fun, very dangerous and very epic. I think it’s the perfect way to introduce a new audience to these characters and retain ties to classic Trek, while at the same time providing a plot device that allows things from the TOS universe to slightly change.
Let me say that to me these rumors sound quite incompatible with the message of the teaser. “The future begins”, “the eyes of the world now look into space”. Make me think of exploration, strange new worlds and new civilizations.
We all knew this had to involve some kind of time travel as soon as we got indication that “Old Spock” and “Young Spock” were in the plot…
Gimme a break with all this bellyaching…what did you THINK it was gonna be?
#123-
Waitaminute… first Abrams writes a script for SUPERMAN RETURNS where Krypton WASN’T destroyed…
…but now we have a STAR TREK movie where the planet Vulcan is toast, essentially turning Spock into the “Last Son of Vulcan?”
Something sounds a little fishy. I’m still not buying ANY of these spoilers until I see the finished product.
Hmmm… plot prediction:
In the future, the Romulans send several agents back in time to kill Kirk; they succeed, resulting in an altered “Yesterday’s Enterprise” timeline. Spock must then go back in time, through different periods of the alternate timeline, and perhaps some of the normal timeline (?), and saves Kirk. In this, Spock is aided by his younger self and the rest of the crew of the alternate Enterprise; after they save Kirk, Spock and young Spock have a farewell scene, then future Spock either leaves, or perhaps dies (probably just leaves, though). Voyages continue.
A disclaimer: all of the above is pure speculation, and should not be mistaken for real-life plot elements or “leaks” or whatever. I made the whole thing up just now at my computer.
So what does everyone think? Plausible?
146 — it also says “under construction” which could be a I’m-style reference to the fact that the present is the mechanism for building the future… A kind of philosophical statement about the entire concept of using the realworld space program audio clips in the teaser. The bold TOS-style positive message is that contrary to the popular belief that we are destroying our own future day by day — we are actually building the ST future gene Roddenberry dreamed of.
Hmm- reading this in concert with Orci’s October interview, I notice this quote:
“…we are purposely not saying if it is a reboot or not is that the solution we have for maintaining canon while liberating us is inherently part of what the story is and something we are reluctant to give away.”
Might this be a reference to ‘alternate timelines’ that can liberate them from canon and show wild and crazy things?
#12 and where on iesb is this script explaination hat ruins the movie?
A battleship style Enterprise(spoilers) may support the idea of an alternate timeline which Spock would have to fix somehow.
In my opinion alternate time lines are a little too far flung.I’d rather follow a linear logical story.
YES!!!!!!!
THE MIRROR UNIVERSE!!!!!!!!
YES!!!!!!!!!
ZOE SALDANA WITH HER BELLYBUTTON, A DAGGER, AND A PAIR OF FMB’S!!!!!
YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am so looking forward to this movie. Alternate timeline Trek stories have been some of my favorites. I’m surprised so many Trekkers here are against them. I find them interesting and thought provoking. As for changing the Trek universe slightly in order to modernize the look and fix some of the inconsistincies of TOS, it seems to me that this would be the only logical way to do it. TOS stories would have occured the same way only in a more updated setting. It would not violate canon because it would become canon. It would be very similar to the way DC Comics updated their universe with their crisis series. In short, I wish JJ alot of luck with this revitalization of the franchise.
“Gene L. Coon (was the better Gene because he) was a U. S. Marine”
Granted, however, Gene Roddenberry was an Officer in the USAAF during WWII.
What is significantally different today is that back in teh 1950s and 1960s almost everyone of significance was a veteran of WWII or the Korean War.
As to the Subject…
Star Trek in an iconic part of the fabric of modern Western Civilization (like the Alamo, Rock Music and Penicillin). Be advised that if this turns out to really “put boogers in the oatmeal,” it will seriously alter an iconic element of what we call TREK.
Alternate timelines have a tendency to devolve into “gimmicks.”
Please, no TNG characters. Still haven’t recovered from the way B&B horned in on “Enterprise’s” last episode. I can understand Spock starting things out in the post-Picard era, but larding the movie with TNG characters is a good way to bog the movie down.
Orci did say that the Enterprise’s appearance was part of the story… so there ya have it.
Maybe instead of seeing Shatner at the end of the film, we’ll see the real TOS Enterprise restored.
Lets see here.. an alternate timeline,a kickass version of the Enterprise, Vulcan distroyed. Are we talking about STXI or Of Gods and Men? I think someone is getting their wires crossed.From what I am reading here, maybe Charlie Evans is the big Spoiler.
#107 The Shatner thing is very relevant as the more we hear about this plot the MORE JJ’s excuse of wouldnt fit into the story they are telling becomes more and more ludicrous:
- A time travelling Spock sent to save Kirk
- Alternate Timelines
And a writing team who cant figure out how to write a role for older Kirk that would fit in the plot???
DOH !
Hey, people remember that JJ said that both he and his wife were able to follow the script and enjoy it, so I for one am not that worried that this will be “too complicated” for non-fans to understand. Also, if Roberto Orci and James Cawley think that the movie will be good, I trust that it will.
161. Juli - February 3, 2008
Also, if Roberto Orci and James Cawley think that the movie will be good, I trust that it will.
I hope Bob Orci thinks the movie will be good. Hell, after all he has co-written the script! So he better is convinced the movie is good. :)
I do not like this alternate time-line & time travel plot in XI. It is so overrated & overdone in Star Trek.
More a read about this film the more doubts i have. I think i remember that Orci had stated that Yesterday´s Enterprise is among his favorite TNG episodes. Also he is TNG fan and it seems he making fan-boyish script . Perfect sample for this is writing Nimoy into this film and TNG timeline.
They should have rebooted the franchise and going back to basics. I do think general audience have zero interest in alternate time-line and another time traval in imaginary universe.
My interest in this film has gone from 10/10 to 5/10 in recent months. Sorry.
#123 - I’m pretty sure that Vulcan being destroyed has never been directly claimed to be in the film. “Moriarty” from AICN used that as a speculation as to what could be done in an alternate continuity (perhaps the best example of why I think creating such a thing would be an incredibly poor idea).
(’Course, with some of the rumors out there, I really do wonder if folks have been getting this film confused with “Of Gods and Men”.)
#114/116 - “If memory serves, we gave him a whole script that said “THE END at the end.”
[chuckle]
Glad you’re still reading, Roberto. :) Honestly, without asking for any plot points, would it be possible to give just a yes or no answer to my question in #88? I might have a bunch of different opinions on specific plot and production elements (rumored or otherwise), but that question is really the only make-or-break issue for me.
In one of your previous Q&As, you commented on understanding one poster’s fear. Well, that’s mine. Call me an unreconstructed old-school fan if you want, but the only real “fear” I have about this film is that when it’s over, within its own context, the Trekverse we’ve largely played in for the past 4 decades will be gone. Now I realize that even the new ScreenRant rumors don’t say that, but look at the reactions on here. I think it’d set a lot of folks at ease if you could just reassure us about the state of the Trek world as of the words “The End” on the last page of your script. No need to explain the path of how we get there. Just that Yes or No answer will do just fine. :)
Just MHO, of course, but there it is.
#160 - These are just rumors about the plot.
#154 - Sorry to burst your bubble, but its alternate timeline not universe.
I think this idea is brilliant. This can give the audience an explanation for why some aspects of original series history are changed, some the same. I’d love to see two versions of the classic Enterprise, the original and a combination of original and a very close new design.
This really can be a great movie depending upon the execution of the ideas presented, so I’ll wait to see more detail before I make up my mind one way or another.
The only thing I’d like to see is the exclusion of references to all the other series. I’m not so into the other ones especially Enterprise. I’ve never accepted the overall premise of that show: “Well you see the original series Enterprise wasn’t really the first ship to go into space and have fantastic adventures. Years before there was another Enterprise and it’s crew and Captain saved the earth and paved the way for the Federation. What? No it was never mentioned in any of the other series before because, it was, uh, well, the newer series never referenced it because, well, uh, uh, uh. Oh, never mind!”
127-
My thoughts exactly when I read that - it’s “Last of the Vulcans”! Now, when Spock goes time traveling, is it going to be in a police box? Accompanied by a shopgirl from London? ;-)
Hey how about this plot? The Romulans try to save Kirk on Veridian in order to somehow change history (for their own nefarious purpose, yet to be explained) and Spock must go back in time to make sure his friend dies.
I so much fear, that Spock will die. He’s old and everybody dies someday. But I so much fear this.
I really don’t know if I can survive the death of this man a second time. Please don’t.
Let him live … somewhere, someplace … don’t let him die again.
#165 - Semantic hairsplitting. ;) In any real sense, the difference between “alternate timeline” and “alternate universe” is nil. What both are describing are different space-time continua, with some differences in events or situations. And with an infinity of possible differences, some of the variations from continuum to continuum could be quite small, while others very large.
e.g., the continuum to which Spock returns at the end of “Yesteryear” is essentially indistinguishable from the one he left when he first went to Orion’s past, except that his pet had died when he was a child. Minor difference. In “Mirror, Mirror”, the differences are much greater (and determining where and when the divergence point is has been the stuff of fannish speculation for many years). And so on. Both can be correctly described as both alternate timelines and alternate universes.
Here’s a new plot idea the Romulans go back in time and kill Kirk before he goes aboard the Enterprise-B. That way he won’t die on Veridian. We can have old Kirk in the movie and he won’t die a meaningless death. Just re-do his death! It’s as simple as that!
#166 - “I’m not so into the other ones especially Enterprise. I’ve never accepted the overall premise of that show: “Well you see the original series Enterprise wasn’t really the first ship to go into space and have fantastic adventures. Years before there was another Enterprise and it’s crew and Captain saved the earth and paved the way for the Federation….’ ”
Oh, that never bothered me (and ENT is, admittedly, my third favorite Trek). Except for the ship in question being named Enterprise (whch also never bothered me that much, ’cause if one considers how many ships have had that name in reality, the idea that we’d go for a couple of hundred years and not have it used is kinda farfetched… ;) ), I took it as a given that there must have been ships out there having adventures and doing stuff that would eventually found the Federation. Such entities don’t just magically materialize, and the stories of how it would come together make great series fodder. My only real complaint was that they didn’t get serious about it ’til Season 4. At least Manny Coto “got it”, and set out to do something with the premise, instead of ignoring it the way B & B ended up largely doing.
So, Spock is to be the only surviving Vulcan in the current timeline?
Hmmmm…….remember The Last Mohican?
THE LAST VULCAN…………….nah, doesn’t sound right! :)
While part of me wants to kidnap Vic from Screenrant and extort the ‘big spoiler’ from him, the more logical part of me is thankful that he is withholding this kind of information. It’s kind of like watching a Criss Angel illusion…I’m curious as hell as to how he does it but knowing would take the fun out of it. Thanks for your restraint Vic, it’s going to be a looooong wait until December…..
Anyone thinking about what mechanism Spock uses for time travel? It seems like he will be moving all over the place with pinpoint accuracy. Also, it sounds like he has a method of locating disturbances caused by the bad guys and a way to avoid being personally affected by the timeline changes. Tough stuff….
-Guardian of Forever (confirmed not in the movie in an older post, but does exactly what the movie needs)
-slingshot maneuver (needs a ship and would get tedious if used repeatedly)
-Q (kind of a cop-out)
-Weird Romulan technology (gets his hands on the Bana-mobile)
-something else?
Ack, you folks getting worked up over these incomplete details and rumors are no better than 7th grade school girls and their gossip. How can you possibly formulate an opinion on the story of this movie when all you have are snippets? Shall we recall the story of the blind men and the elephant?
139: You have got to be drunk on Tranya.
I’m quite sober, but must confess your zinger was very original : )
145 - “TOS explored time travel 5 times…4 episodes out of 79 dealt with time travel. ONE movie out of 6, dealit [sic] with time travel…So all this belly aching about ‘I’m so sick of time travel’ just doesn’t hold any water. You may just have a dislike for the concept in general, but you can’t hate it because it’s been done to death.”
So following your line of argument, if they wanted to do a film where a super-machine comes back looking for its creator, that would be ok because it’s only been done twice, once in an ep and once in a movie? That’s an absurd argument. Further, it’s a cheat to just ignore the fact that other ST series and films have used the time travel plot device, and used it often. The simple fact is that it has been overused in SF in general and ST in particular. That doesn’t mean STXI can’t or won’t be a good story, but so far it doesn’t sound terribly original, and that is why some of us are reacting with skepticism. A film a la “Superman Returns” might make for good comfort food, but the satisfaction is short-lived.
First, I would like to say “thank you,” to Vic, Anthony and anyone else who might have some super-duper major spoilers, but opted to keep them under wraps. I don’t mind a few tid-bits, but I am hoping to be really surprised when I go see the film (l learned my lesson after reading the novelization to TWOK before I saw the film…).
Second, I don’t see any way in the galaxy how Star Trek can continue to survive if it doesn’t take chances and grow. From everything I read and hear from the new Trek Team, it sounds like they know Trek well enough to construct a story that fits into the “playground” Gene Roddenberry created, while also shaking up that playground enough to break down some of the “mental barriers” we have about what Trek should be.
What must happen in this film, IMO, is that we’ve got to care about the characters, period. Yes, we all love Kirk, Spock, McCoy, etc., but I think that is mostly “in general,” and somewhat abstract. We need to care about the characters in THIS story. So, all the time-travels, alternate universes, and homages to Star Trek ultimately mean nothing if we don’t care about the characters. I’m certainly not presuming to tell the Trek Team how to write movies, but its all the “fan-boy demands” that drive me nuts… as if the only way the new film will be succesful is if the crew still wears the original series outfits, or the lettering on the Enterprise must be exactly the same as the original. This sort of “keep Star Trek in the box” kind of thinking is what would kill it permanently.
Please, please just promise me they won’t DWELL on TNG in those scenes - I understand need for the time period given Nimoy’s appearance — but we all remember how they absolutely ruined the last episode of Enterprise by bringing those tired TNG characters out of retirement instead of focusing on bringing the then-current series to a dignified conclusion with a primary focus on the Enterprise characters themselves!!!!!! If I see Riker onscreen again, I think I’ll walk out of the theater screaming@!
re: 103. Jeffrey S. Nelson - February 3, 2008
“Stanky… remember over a year ago when I called you “Spanky” by mistake?”
Yes….good times…………
This may turn out to be the best Trek movie ever made FOR US FANS! But I highly doubt this multiple universe plot with all this time travelling and stuff is of any attraction to the general audience. If the execution is well done it may do twice as good as Nemesis but it’ll be far away from those 200 million bugs domestically that would justify such an incredible budget…
I just don’t get it. If these rumors are true…how could Orci, Abrams and Co. think of it as a movie for the general movie goers? A film for girlfriends, wives and hip hop generation youngsters?
C’mon…We’re talking about time travel, alternate timelines, Kobayashi Maru, mind melds, Picard, a Romulan called NERO, an alternate warship Enterprise, a battle with the Klingons etc…How could someone who doesn’t know about the old timeline even notice the difference? How could someone, who has never heared about Kobayashi Maru or Picard get his kicks of of something like that? It’s just way too fanboyish to attract more than 10 mio. latent Trekkies…
Don’t get me wrong! I’m so excited about this movie but that’s because I’m the archetype of an overgrown fanboy who loved every second of New Voyages so far! This will be our movie. It’s gonna rock! But it won’t revitalize the franchise. It can’t attract a new generation of viewers…And that’s a pity…
I hear if Frakes gains six more pounds they’re going to cast him in the lead of Free Willie:The Return! :)
#136, Steve Adams, No I don’t remember Downey studios at all. We were at a church or school for a few days - in Orange I think. Then at an airport, Burbank? The one thing I do remember well is craft services was awful on that show! It’s all about the food.
Maybe the Xindi are causing trouble again with the timeline and Spock has to go back and fix it.I dont care as long as it is done right.No matter what they do, someone will have a problem with it. I dont give alot of credibility to all of the rumors, I just want to see Star Trek brought back to the big screen in all of its glory and I think it is good hands. Transformers was a kiddie cartoon with a thin (or zero) plot and it was turned into a decent movie. I think Orci and the boys are on the right track with this one. As long as we dont see another of Data’s brothers.
#182 Smike van Dyke “latent Trekkies”
Latent??
Why, I…..I resent….that remark! Latent? My gawd!! What are you trying to imply? I like Merchant+Ivory films! I’ve never had a Trek experience in my life! Not that there’s anything wrong with that! :)
Alt timelines? Yeah.. ok, but… BEEN DONE. There is so much that could be done with the Pike-era, WHY overcomplicate things??
Time travel? Kiss of death. Romulans? Uh, Nemesis anyone?
In addition, the further away they stay from the tepid, tiresome, wimpy, B&B-saturated TNG universe, the better.
This is all going to be a hard sell. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out, and it’s good to know they’re really not throwing TOS out the window.
It better be well written if they’re stuffing the plot.
And I’m sick to death of you people automatically bashing anyone who even comes CLOSE to referring to themself as any kind of “purist.”
What’s your problem, you IDIC worshipping, rabid proponents of “open mindedness?”
More than a little hypocritical, isn’t it??
Time travel, time paradoxes… GREAT SCOTT! The surprise guest star is Darth Vader, from the planet Vulcan!
Seriously. This time travel business is going to melt my brain! :-D
#179 - “Second, I don’t see any way in the galaxy how Star Trek can continue to survive if it doesn’t take chances and grow. From everything I read and hear from the new Trek Team, it sounds like they know Trek well enough to construct a story that fits into the “playground” Gene Roddenberry created, while also shaking up that playground enough to break down some of the “mental barriers” we have about what Trek should be. What must happen in this film, IMO, is that we’ve got to care about the characters, period.”
Yup, agreed with this. I also think that the playground we have is plenty big enough to do just that, without having to round up the characters and drag them over to another playground across town.
So now we have Starfleet Academy, Kobayashi Maru, time travel, alternative timelines, the construction of the Enterprise, 3 ages of Kirk, 2 ages of Spock, Captain Pike, Klingons and Romulans. All that in two hours???
Will the kitchen sink be in it? : )
Harry, No joke. Frakes has a bad case of mid-life spread. He’d have to give Shat’s girdle maker a call stat! Y’know it’s weird that only a few of us seem to support the idea of time travel as a plot device. As posted above, it’s been a successful tool in the past. It’s the only way to bring Spock back. It’s NOT hard for people to follow. Remember a little crowd pleaser called “Back to the Future” anyone? I think the mechanism used to travel through time is important though. No slingshots, no wormholes, they need to come up with something new.
elmachocombo, you bet! I love time travel stories IF they’re done well. As an example….remember years ago a little film called Time After Time by Nicolas Meyer? It had an airtight storyline BECAUSE it conformed to all the established rules of time travel. Loved it! Let’s hope they get Trek XI half as right!
#190 - ‘Will the kitchen sink be in it? : ) ‘
Yep - it’ll be in the galley. Rumor mill has it they’ll slingshot both the sink and Chef forward in time from the NX-01, and Frakes (and his belly) gets a cameo. ;-)
Say what you will about Frakes and his gut, but how many of us have done a love scene with Marina Sirtas?
As much as I hate the idea of time travel in Star Trek again, I wouldn’t mind so much if they really are drawing some inspiration from “Yesterday’s Enterprise.” I’m openly a non-fan of TNG, but YE was the finest hour of Trek since “City on the Edge of Forever,” if not better. Like so many, I think YE would’ve made an amazing first TNG feature film.
I still think we’ll be surprised by whatever time-travel trick Abrams and crew are using. We might be disappointed or underwhelmed, but I think we’ll probably find that they gave it a fair shot. Somehow I have the feeling we’ll be leaving the theaters next Christmas saying, “Those clever bastards!! Where’s the next film?!?!”
(Or we’ll yell, “Kill the bastards!” but we always do that.)
#194 - OK, so he’s Ron ‘Hedgehog’ Frakes. ;-)
Maybe it(Trek 2008) will follow ‘A Christmas Carol’ type track and Spock will be an Ebenezer Scrooge type stubbornly locked into logic (once again),and be compelled somehow to go back and fix the timelines.by some outside force.
The film IS being released around Christmas.That would make it both seasonal and give it the possibility of being a traditional holiday movie that’s shown every year at Christmas.You know,like ‘A Christmas Story’ or ‘It’s a Wonderful Life’.
Oy. All this angst over the supposed plot details of a fim that hasn’t completed principal photography yet, and which won’t be released for another eleven months. Are Trek fans in 2008 even capable, I wonder, of getting this worked-up over something that really matters?
#193 Viking “Frakes (and his belly) gets a cameo”
Yikes, they better use a wide-angle lens! Thar she blows!! :)
#198 Oy. All this angst over the supposed plot details of a fim that hasn’t completed principal photography yet, and which won’t be released for another eleven months. Are Trek fans in 2008 even capable, I wonder, of getting this worked-up over something that really matters?
Right on! I say see the movie then complain the lettering on ship not being right or whatever.
194
I have. With one hand holding up her picture.
#197 - A ‘Peanuts’ Christmas Special’ in space? I think Star Wars tried to go that route about 30 years ago, and in the words of Jason Alexander at The Shat Roast, “Shitzum stinkum biggum” ;-)
#201 I have. With one hand holding up her picture.
Should that count though? Frakes was actually there with her, gut and all.
Love how the plot goes from the very beginning of the film takes place in the POST TNG era to many thinking this will have Picard and elements of a blown out TNG film. Will you all please stay away from the crack pipe, it can only end badly.
1. The very beginning of the film takes place in the POST TNG era. I imagine there will be a couple of nice (and brief) TNG references for you diehards. Maybe Spock steals A TNG era ship to go back in time. (If it’s not the Guardian of Forever as I’ll wager it turns out to be afterall)
2. There are to be multiple timejumps throughout the film. IN THE TOS ERA. Kirk’s youth- Academy- Pike with Spock - Kirk as Captain. Much like an episode of Lost where the story goes back and forth over the course of a few years. We also already know this.
3. If it is the Vulcan gets blown up by a superweapon as huge rumor, we already heard it here over a year ago and Spock (and old Spock) are the last of their kind. OLD NEWS
4. If Spock sets the timeline right (or as right as he can with all the damage) there are going to be subtle changes which keeps cannon but allows for a bit of flexibilty. (New look to E, cooler technology that Spock leaves behind in case Romulans come back, whatever)
5. Yes there is still a possibilty that Shat is in this. If the timeline gets changed his cameo could be Spock returning to his timeline to find him alive. This could also be the huge rumor. Could be anything. Spock could stop off in 1980 and buy up all the Microsoft stock. Or swing by Carmen Electra’s pad in 1998. It’s timetravel, the big plot eraser/ bottle of whiteout.
6. Don’t smoke crack !!!
“#163 - Perfect sample for this is writing Nimoy into this film and TNG timeline.”
No more fan boyish than when they wrote him for “Reunification.” Also was it fanboyish when they brought DeForest Kelly in for a TNG episode? James Doohan? William Shatner or Walter Koeneg?
Even if it is, so what? You are there to watch the movie, not the intentions of the writers putting a character in. You’re over thinking things.
#190 - Try *3* ages of Spock!
Kirk may be dead in our timeline or universe, why not Kirk alive, as the evil Kirk, in another timeline? In the realm of Science Fiction and Star Trek, that is most defiantly conceivable. In Yesturday’s Enterprise, correct me if I’m wrong, was Yar not with the living. It’s been a while since I’ve seen that one, I know she comes back and has the Romulin Child. Kirk would be an unstoppable Villan in an evil alternate universe.
Maybe Spock is just teaching a bunch of Romulan kids what really happened during diferrent time periods instead of the Romulan version of history and its a memory trip. Who knows? We will at Christmas. Most of the rumors seem to coincide with events that take place in Of Gods and Men.I think STXI and OGAM are being confused.
#178–
Sorry, but your analogy is too clever by half. An intelligent machine returning to Earth looking for its creator is a plot, and you better believe that lots of folks back in 1979 noted that it had already been done. Time travel, OTOH, is a plot device, and can result in stories as divergent in intent and quality as “City on the Edge of Forever” and “Carpenter Street,” depending on the talents and inclinations of the people involved.
For me, what Abrams’ film has going for it at this point is Nimoy’s endorsement and participation, along with the proven abilities of its director and producers. What it has going against it at the moment is mostly the AICN rumor mill and a lot of wankish fanboy speculation. That said, I have no idea whether it will end up being the best thing that’s happened to Trek in the last thirty years, or the final nail in the coffin (or, perhaps more likely, somewhere in between). For those who are absolutely convinced they know what the future holds, my sincere advice would be to get off these boards, and into stocks.
Mr Ballz, they do shoot in Panavison widesreen.
^
But this would not work on the full-screen dvds. You wouldn’t be able to see past Frakes.
^
Ah come on guys let’s not bash Frakes.
^
And too that poster that never saw Mirror Mirror, dude go get the dvd! What a classic trek.
^
Also did anyone notice the Nod to the Twilight Zone in “City on the Edge of Forever”?
#178–
Sorry, but your analogy is too clever by half. An intelligent machine returning to Earth looking for its creator is a plot, and you better believe that lots of folks back in 1979 noted that it had already been done.
V Ger or Nomad ….the same. It worked then though. I do think they drew it out a bit much. How long did it take for them to actually board the ship in TMP? I know they flew around it quite a bit.At times I thought I was watching the Slow Motion Picture. But it was good.
Alright, alright, all this speculation is just getting………….speculative. ;-) Let’s take a real flyer here: if Spock is jumping back and forth between points in time and quantum states (as we’re all ASS-U-MEing), then, in his regret for not accompanying Kirk to the launch of the Enterprise B (thereby insuring that he DID die alone), makes a pit stop on Veridian III on the way to/from the 24th century, and pings Soran in the noggin with a rock or something just as he’s about to fire at the bridge. As Spock emerges back in ‘his’ present via the (insert the sci-fi mechanism of your choice here), Kirk is standing there, asking, ‘Did it work?”, to which Spock replies, “If you and I are here together, it did.” Simple, plausible way of writing in The Shat, if you’re going to be pinballing all over space, time, and (*THERMAL UNDERHOSEN ACTIVATED*) canon.
What the hell. Might as well contribute to the other 1300 potential storylines buzzing around here like flies. ;-)
The phrase “all-out warship” concerns me.
#210 - Also did anyone notice the Nod to the Twilight Zone in “City on the Edge of Forever”?
More of a nod to The Andy Griffith Show. Kirk was trying to finesse a little trim right in front of Floyd’s Barber Shop. LOL :-)
Alternate time lines would make it very easy to bring Shatner back as Kirk.
The writers would not have to waste time bringing Kirk back to life (or out of the nexus) if an alternate time line exists.
ps: It looks like there may have been a breakthrough in the writers strike this weekend.
Why do so many people here think that the audience is just plain dumb?
I hear so many people mention things like.. the average person won’t understand a time travel story. Or alternate time frames will alienate people. Or, Shatner would be nothing but a distraction to the audience.
Come on people, give the audience a little credit. I don’t think the average person will stay away for the reasons stated above (and about a million others people are whining about) This film will sink or swim on it’s own merits. Besides haven’t some of the most popular films and episodes dealt with alternate time frames, time travel and characters (Spock, Tasha Yar) that were thought to be dead?
Would the people who are complaining about the perceived complexity of the plot prefer the writers just dumb it down?
ps:
Patriots 70
NYG 3
GO PATRIOTS!!!!!!
19-0
So its a sequel (post Nemesis)..a prequel (young Kirk Spock, Kobiashi Maru, NCC 1701 being built etc) and maybe a reboot as well (alternate timeline)
But really its first and foremost a sequel (star trek XI) as i assume it starts off with the TNG or post TNG era…whether it ends in that era is another matter
#142
“We’ve been there so many times….when will Star Trek being about exploration of ideas, worlds and spirituality again? I hope the rumors are false and that we get to see something fresh.”
Exactly 145 people want the latest Trek to be about ideas, worlds, and spirituality”.
The other 99.99998 percentile want an escape, an enjoyable story, and reasonable acting.
Please.
Gene is dead. Gene used Trek to get laid. He was a hack and a horndog, who was wise enough on occasion to let the talented people like Coon and Justman do the heavy lifting.
All this alternate timeline talk, and they couldn’t come up with a way to bring in Shatner? Flimsy excuses. Which is what I said back in August, that the “he’s already dead” was a lame excuse and a cop-out. Of course, I could be wrong, but will have to wait for the final product to make a determination. But as of right now, I am still perturbed at the Shatner snub.
Spork, I agree with you about what the viewing public wants, although greatly disagree on the importance of Roddenberry. He was more than capable and willing to run the show, but NBC wouldn’t let him do anything, and he got tired of fighting with them. Producing a risky TV show must be mind numbing. I followed the scifi show Sliders, and the original producer, Tracy Torme, was constantly fighting with FOX, and eventually just quit when his contract ran out.
#218 - “Exactly 145 people want the latest Trek to be about ‘ideas, worlds, and spirituality’.
The other 99.99998 percentile want an escape, an enjoyable story, and reasonable acting.”
I think the vast majority would like both. Tall order, maybe, but so what? No reason not to aim high.
‘Gene used Trek to get laid.’
And who among us hasn’t partaken of THAT fringe benefit of gainful employment? ;-)
Rumor rumor rumor…
[*snore..]
…just give me the facts! …[spoilers are okay by me!]
…and re: 7. ScreenRant.com
“Oh, and just so you guys know… I withheld a REALLY big spoiler (that I’m sure Anthony knows about as well) because I have no intention of ruining this movie for anyone.”
Please Vic, that was a rude and immature thing to post. I was expecting you to follow with a “nanna nanna nann-nah!”
If you ain’t gonna say, then keep a lid on it!
As it is, you sound like a cruel jester who can not be taken at their word. After reading that, I know I would never trust you with a secret.
You would make the world’s worst spy!
Anthony [if he knows what it is you are talking about] has kept it and all top secret info to himself.
If I was involved in the production of this film [or this website] and I saw your post, I would make sure you were kept as far out of the loop as possible!
So please, If in the future you know something that you can’t divulge, then JUST KEEP QUIET!
I have been reading all these little rumors and tidbits and I have formulated a theory as to what the movie is about. In TNG, there was a faction of Romulans that wanted peace and Spock was last seen working towards that goal. So in the new movie, Spock was successful and there is a renegade group of Romulans who don’t want peace. They go back in time to kill Spock when he is still at the acadamy to prevent the unification and that creates the alternate timeline and sets up the storyline. That is why Leonard is in the movie and not Shatner and that would fit nicely with the tie in to TNG.
It’s good they have Nimoy; someome has to fix these plot threads. He will be the only familiar face, and the only reference point for most moviegoers. The new TOS crew is an “alternate universe” too. I wish they had just given us a new mission during year four of the five– slighlly upgraded.
#220: Yeah.
For my part, all I want from any Trek film is (A) a sincere take on the Trek vibe & ethos and (B) a movie that isn’t disposable fluff.
I have no worries about (A) at all; the folks involved have entirely allayed any concerns I might have had about that (I’m no purist and don’t care about Trek canon unless I’m being paid to, and I’m not, at the moment). I still have lingering concerns about (B), but I remain hopeful.
218. Spork
Without Gene, there would have been no Star Trek at all. Nothing for Coon and Justman (whom he hired to labor on). Coon’s role has been exaggerated by Shatner and others because they didn’t like Gene. Gene was the BOSS and didn’t coddle their big egos.
That “hack” created, visualized (and fought for) virtually everything that we know and love about the Trek universe. Spork, may I ask what YOU have contributed to the world?
209: You’re splitting hairs. Placing the timeline in jeopardy is an overworked concept. A difference that makes no difference is no difference.
This is ridculous. First, every detail has to be right to keep canon and the characters have to be perfect and you can throw the general audience out the window. Then, you don’t think the film is going to appeal to the general audience because it’s too complicated. Come on people, make up your minds!
re: 221.
I’ve used Trek to not get laid. Let’s just say that we all know it’s a deal breaker sometimes. Maybe if there was an internet when I was a teenager, it would have been different. And you fellas here know EXACTLY what I am talking about. :)
re: 228.
Thanks for being a voice of reason. Let’s put this sucker to bed. The filmmakers have to walk a fine line between the loyal trekkies/trekkors, and establishing new fans/bringing in casual fans. That is their mandate, and I bet the studio suits agree. Now, discuss…
#226: “Without Gene, there would have been no Star Trek at all.”
Roddenberry created Star Trek in concept only, The Cage went no where. The Shat made it immortal.
All things Trek begin & end with James T. Kirk and the fans should accept nothing less than this film being a springboard for a new series of movies with ‘the true’ Kirk & Spock. JJ knows The Shat means assured box office but perfers to castrate canon by keeping him off the casting call.
I think it’s important not to alienate the TNG/DS9/VOY fan base that never watched TOS especially internationally, I’m from the UK and TOS seems to be concidered camp and corny here. The TOSR shows aren’t even shown here someone on the official movie forum said :
“I am from germany and TOS was treated like a children´s program.
The first “serious” ST Series was TNG (and I still kinda think like that.)”
I see alot of people talking about “City on the Edge of Forever” I gotta say I never seen it.
Okay, two things:
1: Maybe those who doubted time travel in the plot will stop doing so.
2: With alternate timelines there is NO REASON why Shatner can’t be in this. NO REASON.
230.
Who hired The Shat?
As for the new movie, Shatner is just too old and out of shape. That’s the bottom line.
Stop with the Shatner-bating!
Spock wakes up in bed next to his wife, Susanne Pleshette, and realizes that everything after “Turnabout Intruder” was a dream.
#225 - I freely admit, I’m a huge continuity guy. I think part of that is because I left behind the notion that Trek was just about a set (or several sets) of characters, once the number of main characters passed about 30 or so, and certainly now that the number of distinct Trek series has reached a dozen. For a long time, my love of Trek has been as much about its fictional world as about anything else, and I’m very protective of that.
I’m not so extreme as to get bent out of shape if they change a console or the markings on the ship (e.g., I thought it was amusing that they used the FJ microgramma style in the trailer, not upsetting), but I would be very upset if they did something extreme like destroy a whole planet which we know to be alive and well on into latter-era Trek. I think denying the need for some adjustments in production design is just being short-sighted, but the overall Trekverse, in the broad sense (an important phrase, mind you), holds together just fine and does not need to be changed, nor should it be.
I wonder if the apparent fact that they don’t feel they can bring Mr. Shatner into the movie bespeaks a commitment to preserving at least the general outlines of the Trekverse, since as so many folks have noted, if they’re not so committed, it’d be almost insanely easy to have brought him in.
234.
If you’re referring to me, I am NOT “Shatner-bating”. I grew up with the original series and loved it. Shatner, Nimoy and Co. made it a true classic. I am a Shatner fan - love him in Boston Legal!
But, I stand by what I wrote in 233. He is too old for the role. Just like Harrison Ford is too old to play Indiana Jones. Yes, we love them and their characters. But it’s time to recognize reality and move on.
#235 - and realizes that Kirk, McCoy, and Scotty were Larry, Daryl, and his other brother Daryl? :-)
“Gene used Trek to get laid. He was a hack and a horndog, who was wise enough on occasion to let the talented people like Coon and Justman do the heavy lifting. “
As another poster has already pointed out, that “hack,” pustulent twerp, conceived and fought for everything about this franchise that millions have found entertaining and, at times, inspiring, for the last forty years.
Since you’re apparently unaware of the definitions of the words you like to toss around to disparage the accomplishments of other people, a “hack”–e.g. an Irwin Allen or Glen Larson–is someone who, given the opportunity, will always take the money and run. And anyone who knows anything at all about the history of Trek will tell you that if that description had fit Gene Roddenberry, the lives of NBC executives, Harve Bennett, Nicholas Meyer, and even a certain Leonard Nimoy, would have been a lot less complicated. Literally–right up till the time of Roddenberry’s death.
Sheesh. In this day and age of soundbites that substitute for nuanced historical truth I know it’s impossible for some to get their little minds around the notion that Gene Roddenberry was not only responsible for the creation o