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Meet Little Spock February 27, 2008

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: ST09 Cast , trackback

In early January Leonard Nimoy revealed that the new Star Trek movie will not only have two Spocks (himself and Zachary Quinto), but three Spocks. TrekMovie.com has identified this third Spock as twelve-year-old actor Jacob Kogan, who will be appearing as the adolescent version of our favorite half-human half-Vulcan. As a child actor, Kogan has few credits to his name, but he did feature in the title role of the 2007 horror film Joshua, starring Sam Rockwell.

[MINOR SPOILERS]
Kogan’s younger Spock will only appear briefly in the film and apparently has at least one scene with Winona Ryder who plays his mother Amanda Grayson (it isn’t known yet if Ben Cross’ Sarek also appears with Kogan). Last month TrekMovie.com reported on actors being cast to play adolescent versions of James T. Kirk and his brother Sam. However, it appears that they do not have any scenes with the young Spock. All of these young actors are befitting the epic and time-spanning nature of the new Star Trek movie which is truly an ‘origin story’ for the franchise and in particular Kirk and Spock. Kogan has already finished his work on the film and it required him to get a ‘Spock haircut.’ [END SPOILERS]

About Jacob
Jacob Kogan was born and raised in New York and is the son of Russian actor Pavel Kogan. Jacob started his career when he was asked to audition for a film from director Lasse Hallström (Chocolat). Although that film’s financing fell through he has been perusing acting ever since. Jacob appeared in multiple episodes of the MTV2 sketch comedy show Wonder Showzen from 2005-2006, but it was his creepy performance in the 2007 horror film Joshua that was his biggest break. Jacob’s mother has set four strict rules on his acting career: (1) no sitcoms, (2) no commercials, (3) no dumb films, and (4) no relocating to Los Angeles. Jacob will be seen next in the comedy Wherever You Are which is currently in post production. More on Jacob at IMDB.


Kogan in “Joshua”

Not the first Spock kid
Spock has been portrayed as a child before. The first time would be in the The Animated Series episode “Yesteryear” written by D.C. Fontana. That episode showed Commander Spock using the Guardian of Forever to travel back in time to help his younger self (voiced by Billy Simpson) through an ordeal in the deserts of Vulcan. The second time we see a young Spock we actually see him grow up from a child all the way to an adult on the Genesis planet in Star Trek III The Search For Spock. In that case four different actors portrayed Spock at various ages from child to young adult before he grew into Nimoy’s Spock.

It will be interesting seeing Spock as a child. The episode “Yesteryear,” which is considered canon, shows that young Spock’s time as a child was troubled. His main problem was dealing with his conflicting Human and Vulcan sides along with the taunts of “Earther” coming from his Vulcan school mates.


(L) Spock at 13 in “The Search For Spock” (played by Vadia Potenza) & (R) Spock as a child in “Yesteryear”

Kogan Video
Kogan dicusses Joshua w/ clips

Still More to come
Kogan is the sixth casting scoop from TrekMovie.com in February (see previous reports: here, here, and here). And we aren't finished yet. Expect at least one more by the time the month is over and more to come in March. It is not that we are 'holding back' but just always want to be sure we have our facts right. For the full list of the known cast, CLICK HERE.


Comments

1. Charles Trotter - February 27, 2008

Holy crap, they traveled back in time and abducted a young Zachary Quinto!!! Seriously, the similarities between the two of them… wow. Even if Quinto wasn’t cast, the kid is still a dead ringer for a young Spock (or any other Vulcan child for that matter).

sorry about previous post, dunno what happened there… very odd…

2. (K)night - February 27, 2008

So how many actors have portrayed Spock at this point? Is it 5? He is almost as popular as James Bond! But not quite Sherlock Holmes territory yet…

3. S. John Ross - February 27, 2008

In that top pic he’s totally got the eyebrows. Cool.

4. Papa Jim - February 27, 2008

He definitely has the look

5. Kevin - February 27, 2008

Wow! Can anyone say young Zachary Quinto? This little guy totally looks the part!

6. matt D - February 27, 2008

Woo Hoo! Kid’s Mother doesn’t think Star Trek is a “dumb film”!

7. Cranston - February 27, 2008

Agreed – not a bad likeness at all. Much better than the “young Spocks” from ST3.

8. Kapitaen Stephan - February 27, 2008

I thought even Gene Roddenberry said that “The Animated Series” was NOT canon???

9. Commodore Redshirt - February 27, 2008

Looks like he’ll do fine. Looks like a young half-Vulcan should…

The [MINOR SPOILERS] are great! More food for the starving! :)
Thanks for another fine job, Anthony!

10. SirMartman - February 27, 2008

I hearfor the next Trek,,they are going back to when Spockand Kirk are still sperm !

11. Iowagirl - February 27, 2008

#10

I must admit, I’d be very curious about *that* casting…;-)

12. Stringfellow Hawke - February 27, 2008

#11 Hope it wouldn’t be Bruce Willis, if you get my meaning. I couldn’t bear the thought of either one calling out ‘Yippee-Kai-ay!’ as they barrel out of the womb, finger-guns blazing (in Kirk’s case).

I never saw Joshua, but he does look creepy enough to portray a Vulcan. Thank god they aren’t using that kid from X3. I’m tired of that one. The fresh faces approach JJ and his team are taking is impressing me big time. No ego baggage. :)

13. theSpockette - February 27, 2008

He’s so cute! He’ll be an adorable little Spock.

Cuteness aside…he looks great for the part. Definitely like a young Spock!

14. Pappy Boyington - February 27, 2008

The resemblance to Quinto is uncanny. Joshua looks like a Omen type movie where the kid is possessed.

15. Jovan - February 27, 2008

I agree with everyone. He has the same long face… even at 12! Good casting choice.

16. diabolk - February 27, 2008

#8… true.. but certain elements have become canon since, and it looks as if more are about to. I love it. There were many good things in it that added to the Trek history.

17. Fleet Captain Kor'Tar - February 27, 2008

MINOR SPOILERS keeps us hungry Trekkies fed everyday till May of 2009.
Keep offering the tasty tidbits of info and we’ll keep visiting !
Dead ringer for Nimoy and Quinto!

18. Ron - February 27, 2008

#8: Roddenberry had the habit of going back after the fact and trying to “de-canonize” things he wasn’t happy with. Remember that he also claimed ST5 and ST6 weren’t canon, either. Ultimately, his opinions simply aren’t the final authority on the subject.

19. Garovorkin - February 27, 2008

Yeah looks like young Spock alright. they really go all out on ther flashback thing.

20. Cervantes - February 27, 2008

This is a nice piece of casting. So where are we now?…three ‘Spocks’, one young, one older, and one elderly…and two ‘Kirks’, one young, one older, and…wait a minute!

I loved Animated TOS as a kid. If only they’d remaster THAT using the voices and more contemporary animation.

21. Batts - February 27, 2008

My God! This flashback business as already stated in prior posts is really DEEP! I hope that this can be convincing other wisw you are going to have a Flashy MESS!! and quite boring. A movie with Kirk and Spock as kids. I dont know??

22. Cervantes - February 27, 2008

A TOO young ‘Darth’ didn’t prove to be a good thing either I seem to remember…

23. section9 - February 27, 2008

So, does the Young Spock get to fight the Young Darth in a lightsaber battle? And does Jar Jar get beheaded ?

24. Samra - February 27, 2008

What about Gary Mitchell???

25. j w wright - February 27, 2008

epic spock story in the works, i have a good feeling about this. why arent more photos and spoilers leaking from the set? are they shooting the picture in fort knox?

26. StarTrekkie - February 27, 2008

It’s true that Gene Roddenberry can’t pick and choose what becomes canon and what doesn’t. But who decided that the animated series was canon? It’s a cartoon, which might as well be illustrations in a book. You can’t consider that to be canon in my opinion.

I think there’s a good amount of Trek fandom represented here, let’s make a new poll to decide the issue.

27. The Quickening - February 27, 2008

25. j w wright wrote–
… why arent more photos and spoilers leaking from the set? are they shooting the picture in fort knox?

I’m kinda glad we aren’t seeing too much right now. The movie doesn’t premeire ’til May, ’08!

28. Sarah James - February 27, 2008

Charming little Vulcan :)
I like how this movie features Spock without becoming absorbed by one character only. It leaves room for a good story with a whole lot of good characters. The way TOS should have been.

29. thebiggfrogg - February 27, 2008

Animated–canon. Almost all the original Trek stars voiced. Roddenberry was involved. Stories by quality writers from the original show. The look of the show was consistent with the TV show (even if the Filmation style doesn’t hold up today). Of course, given the above criteria the new movie wouldn’t be canon ; ). We could just rely on Shatner’s advice, “For God sakes, it’s just a TV show!”

30. BOARDROOM - February 27, 2008

What’s next, fetus Spock?

31. thebiggfrogg - February 27, 2008

I remember making a fetus joke to a workmate in Japan and getting the biggest laugh I had ever gotten in my life. If I were gay I would have married the guy right there on the spot. You can’t pay for that kind of reaction.

32. CLS USMC - February 27, 2008

Not that it meant much, but when the people who actually knew what they were doing were running startrek.com, I seem to remember them running a poll where the fans actually voted and the fans voted it as cannon. Not there can’t be another poll of course.

And i think one really big difference is that the ENTIRE movie isn’t going to revolve around young Spock like SW Ep I did with anakin (shudder). Flashbacks are a fine storytelling tool, but we know we are going to see old Spock and TOS age Spock. SO I think they can lay the concerns of Anakin and Jar Jar drop.

SEMPER FI

33. Garovorkin - February 27, 2008

#26 correct me if im wrong but did not Roddenberry sign off on the animated series. If thats the case then why wouldn’t these episodes be accepted into the cannon?

34. StarTrekkie - February 27, 2008

Ok, found an article where the fans voted in favor of canonization by a margin of more than 2-1. So I guess I’m outvoted. *grumbles*

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/editorials/article/17178.html

But I’m still gonna side with Roddenberry on this one, I think mostly because it’s too easy to pick and choose what you want to be canonized. If something from one of the other series or movies conflicts with TAS, it’d be very easy to just write off TAS in explaining it, say “Oh, that was just the animated series”.

I don’t think you can have levels of canoninity, it’s either canon or it’s not. No in between. And I simply don’t think there’s any way that TAS is on the same level as TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT. Those were quality high budget TV shows, with real people. There’s no way I can put TAS on that same level.

The mere fact that there’s a DEBATE about it ruins it’s crediblity. Nobody would question any of the other series. (unless you’re talking about Voyager’s Threshold maybe) The vote has to be at least very close to unanimous I think.

35. Thelin - February 27, 2008

Don’t forget that DC Fontana also penned the animated episode featuring young Spock.

The whole issue of TAS being or not being “canon” is ridiculous.

Almost the entire TOS crew participated, the episodes were written by TOS writers, the whole thing was overseen by Gene Roddenberry himself, insisting that the look of EVERYTHING be consistent with the original show.

Like it or not TAS is original Star Trek. It is there on DVD for anyone to verify with their own eyes.

Cheesy some may complain, maybe, but so was TOS.

36. JBS - February 27, 2008

I think Jacob looks more like Leonard than Zachary does. Good choise.

37. Garovorkin - February 27, 2008

#34 and #35 the whole what is Cannon what is not debate is starting get a little tedious at this point, and I don’t think any of us are going to settle this now or in the future. When I go see the movie im going to put the whole debate out my mind and just enjoy the film. In the case of the flashback Im am wondering if they will be doing it for all of the main cast members ?

38. British Naval Dude - February 27, 2008

arrrrr….

My Three Spocks…

drove Uncle Charlie crazy with their incessant logic…

arrrr….

39. richpit - February 27, 2008

hasn’t anyone caught that this kid’s father’s name is Pavel??

40. raulpetersen - February 27, 2008

so we wont be seeing him in harold and kumar vs predator then!

he looks well vulcan tho!

41. Yendis - February 27, 2008

CUTE!

42. Jorg Sacul - February 27, 2008

By Grapthar’s hammer….

it’s CANON not CANNON.

And yes, the Animated Series is canon. Produced and paid for by Paramount, it’s 100% canony goodness. Even the giant clone Spock and BEM.

Yep, that Trek Animated Series… it’s canonlicious.
If it were a heart attack it would be a “canonery”.
If it were a nation to the north of the USA, it’d be “Canonda”.
If it were a snake, it’d be an “anacanonda”.
If TAS was recognized as having performed three documented miracles, the Catholic Church would “canonize” it. Oh wait. That’s already a word…

back to topic:

Young Spock… will the Romulans try to kill him as a child, also, so that he doesn’t travel back in time as an adult to save young Jim Kirk??? Jeeze, I’m going to have to watch this movie from a DeLorean to keep track of all the time permutations! I am SO looking forward to this!

43. raulpetersen - February 27, 2008

voy and ent should be fired out of a canon! hehe

44. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

It was my understanding that only something depicted in a live action Trek series or Paramount film is considered canon. It could be that because certain elements of TAS( “Yesteryear”) have been confirmed in ENT (“The Forge”), for instance, that we now accept the entire episode as canon. If so, I have no issue with that. It is my absolute favorite of the animated series episodes. D.C. Fontana is great.

With that said, there are episodes of TAS which I would hope are never canonized…

45. maspill - February 27, 2008

he looks a bit scary is his name damion !!

46. maspill - February 27, 2008

majel for trek xi people !! start voting

47. sean - February 27, 2008

#22

Origin stories for heroes can work – Superman, Batman, etc. Origin stories for villains – Episode I, Hannibal Rising – eh, not so much.

48. Diabolik - February 27, 2008

I’m betting we will see his pet Sehlat and the city of ShiKhar, at least in passing. Wouldn’t that be cool?

49. StarTrekkie - February 27, 2008

@35 Don’t forget, D.C Fontana wrote “To Serve All my Days” too :P

Since trek canoninity is obviously a subjective matter. I choose to throw TAS out. IMHO, being a cartoon automatically disqualifies it.

But you have your right to your opinion.

The big question is.. what does J.J Abrams think? I’d be very interested to know THAT.

50. Michelle - February 27, 2008

Aww…such a cute looking kid! I think he’ll be great as little Spock. I cannot way to see this movie. :)

51. Dr. Image - February 27, 2008

#20- Remaster TAS? YES- with cutting-edge performance capture CGI! Now THAT would be an idea worth pursuing. The only minor drawback would be some of the voice performances, which were in fact all recorded seperately by the actors at different times. This resulted some very bland deliveries.
Still, imagine how cool that would be!!

52. CmdrR - February 27, 2008

So, Vulcans get a haircut at 12 and that’s it for life? Yeah, kinda always looked that way.

I’d offer advice about dealing with being teased, but more likely this guy’s in a Hollywood area school and is being hit up with requests for an introduction to JJ.

Welcome to a very wierd world, Jacob Kogan.

Save your money!!!!

53. Sebastian - February 27, 2008

If the care taken in the physical casting is any indication, then the people involved care very much for the franchise. It bodes well for all Trekkies (no, it’s not a dirty word; I consider myself a proud Trekkie…I take the word back!). And as for the TAS/canon nonsense; it was on the screen, written by Trek writers, overseen by Roddenberry, even voiced by the original actors. It happened, OK? And besides, this IS a fictional universe we’re talking about, right? It’s for fun, and to make you think. Good enough for me. Yes, some of the animated stories are a little goofy. So, by that reckoning, then Spock’s Brain ‘never happened’, right? Or Trek 5? Ridiculous. And as #49′s dismissal of animation, I take issue with that. Animation is a viable entertainment art form, even recognized by the Academy Awards. And ‘Beauty and the Beast’ in 1992 was nominated for Best Picture, not Best Cartoon! So, re-evaluate any dismissal of animation (done well or poorly) made in haste. And I look forward to the next Trek movie. Looks like a healthy injection of fresh blood for a once ailing franchise. And whether or not every button on the bridge is in the right place or not, it’s on the screen; it’s Star Trek.

54. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

#33, #34, #35, #49—I submit that TAS episodes are not automatically canon. It takes, at the very least, a reference to an event, which took place in a TAS episode, on screen in a live action series or film to make it so. If I am not mistaken, I read that at Memory Alpha once. Anyway, it makes sense to me. Fontana did write “Yesteryear”, and that episode has been canonized by DS9 and ENT. That has nothing to do with “To Serve All My Days”, which she also wrote, and to my knowledge, has never been canonized in live action.

55. StarTrekkie - February 27, 2008

@53 – Animation on it’s own has merit. But TAS is animation *highly* overshadowed by live action, making it subpar by definition.

56. British Naval Dude - February 27, 2008

#53
arrrr… a big old “ar Yeah” for animation….
I be a cartoon character meself…

And origin stories… like them thar Muppet Babies?
Or hopefully moreso along the lines of tha first Muppet Movie which, if I quote Leonard Maltin correctly- and I do not- was “a sprawling masterpiece of carefully threaded, interwoven webs providing not just a lovingly conceived epic backstory to pre-established characters, but also providing a gentle, fan-friendly, and contemporary revisitionist outline for non-existant clothe puppets.”

and ta think I thought Gonzo was just a purple rat and not some inherently complex character…

let’s hope tha same be for Trek Babies… I mean The Star Trek Movie

arrrr….

57. I Love My Moogie - February 27, 2008

He doesn’t look like Little Spock from TSFS, canon is officially destroyed!!!

Anthony, I’m joking, not trolling ; )

58. RM10019 - February 27, 2008

#27, That’s May ’09!

59. Sebastian - February 27, 2008

#54; That’s some fuzzy logic! And Memory Alpha is only a website, it’s not canon, right? So, only if it’s cross-referenced in another live-action show? So….Plato’s Stepchildren, Spock’s Brain, And the Children Shall Lead, they just…never happened? No future references to Platonians or the Gorgon that I recall. When you love a show as much as Trekkies do, you take the good with the bad, like a marriage. You can’t selectively imagine whole episodes never happened, and yes, the Animated Series DID happen. Watched it as a kid; it’s Star Trek. For better or worse! And some of those stories were truly on a par with the original series. Many weren’t. But there was plenty of bad live-action Trek, too. And not just all the 3rd season (hell, while we’re at it, let’s just erase all of season 3 too, right?). “Gamesters of Triskelion” comes to mind. As does “The Alternative Factor.” It just troubles me that people who celebrate imagination and creativity as much as Trekkies do can so easily and summarily dismiss the entire genre of animation in a few keystrokes. As for time-line/continuity errors, TOS contradicted ‘canon’ constantly. Remember Warp 15 in the Changeling? So what! These flubs are not terminal! Appreciate the stories and characters (animated or live-action), don’t dwell on the superficial.

60. Buckaroohawk - February 27, 2008

I’ve seen the preview for the horror film “Joshua” in which young Mr. Kogan stars. His performance (even in the short preview) is absolutely riveting and downright creepy. It’s made me curious to see the film, despite my aversion to stories where children are the antagonists or villans. Throughout the preview Kogan’s face is a blank mask that hides very deep, VERY dark thoughts. If Abrams hired him based on his performance in “Joshua,” then he chose his young Spock wisely.

These little casting tidbits are wonderful, but I’m desperate to see the Enterprise in all it’s glory, especially after the glimpses in the teaser. I know the movie’s premiere is more than a year away now, but please, guys, don’t leave us hanging out here too long!

RE: Canon. At this point, any discussion of canon is purely academic, and usually a waste of time. It’s entirely subjective. Canon is whatever each individual Trek fan wants it to be for themselves. It’s pointless to argue what is and what isn’t canon any longer.

61. NCC-73515 - February 27, 2008

Why does Spock have no beard on the Genesis planet?

62. thebiggfrogg - February 27, 2008

The Way to Eden, And the Children Shall Lead, Spock’s Brain or Yesteryear? I know what I pick for quality, so I wouldn’t say “highly” overshadowed. Besides, the point is mostly moot. My guess is most fans themselves are going to accept what they like (it is after all, just a TV show). I’m sure Enterprise is canon, but after giving it a chance I decided to quit wasting my time. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen in the vast Trekverse, but it is just fiction after all. Sometimes we Trekkies need to just lighten up.

Besides, I’m sure the “canonical” answer will be forthcoming in the Trek movie. If Pike is the Enterprise’s first captain then a big wack has been taken against TAS. If we get a glimpse of Robert April, or a mention, then we can start writing it in to our King Rod’s Bible. Personally I’m hoping for an April mention.

63. Shatner_Fan_2000 - February 27, 2008

#10, #11 … I’m pretty sure there already was an episode where we saw Kirk as a sperm. I don’t recall which, it may have been an episode of TAS. But it was definitely canon!

64. GiltProto - February 27, 2008

I shall call him Mini-Spock.

65. trekofficial - February 27, 2008

whos gonna play the baby fetus Spock??? I really need to see him at every stage of his life span.

66. Thelin - February 27, 2008

TAS won an Emmy Award.

I think Roddenberry very wisely chose Filmation to do the animation, in conjunction with Paramount.

Filmation was one of the last, if not the last animation studio doing all of their animation artwork, background cels, etc. inhouse in the USA.

Some of the artwork in TAS is some of the most fantastic sci-fi animation ever done IMO. Take a look at “Beyond the Farthest Star” for example (Written by Samuel Peeples BTW who also wrote WNMHGB) or “The Jihad”, “Yesteryear” , or many others.

This is the stuff of science fiction fantasy, that could never be done with live actors. It is like science fiction coming alive.

Roberto Orci has been quoted on this website as having been impressed with TAS yesteryear, and may very well have used some of his impressions of young Spock from TAS in the upcoming movie.

67. Sulu was better - February 27, 2008

But hes so….. Human

68. Dierna - February 27, 2008

#8: TAS isn’t canon except for the ep “Yesteryear” cuz some parts of it was mentioned in the TOS ep “Journey To Babel”

69. Kigs - February 27, 2008

Very nice! I saw him in Joshua and it was a creepy movie, but he did do an excellent job. Hope he brings that quality to young Spock. I wonder if he has meet LN or ZQ yet?

Kigs:)

70. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

#59–”So….Plato’s Stepchildren, Spock’s Brain, And the Children Shall Lead, they just…never happened? No future references to Platonians or the Gorgon that I recall…”

I’m not sure how you got that from my post. Those episodes WERE live action (TOS), and therefore do not require “confirmation”. I was strictly referring to the 1970′s animated series (TAS). I don’t think it’s “fuzzy” logic at all. You can accept it as canon in your mind–be my guest. But to me, Christopher Pike was the first Captain of the Constitution class USS Enterprise NCC-1701. Unless otherwise referenced in a live action series or film, Robert April is not a canon character.

“As for time-line/continuity errors, TOS contradicted ‘canon’ constantly. Remember Warp 15 in the Changeling? So what! These flubs are not terminal! Appreciate the stories and characters (animated or live-action), don’t dwell on the superficial.”

On that, you’ll get no argument from me…That has always been my position regarding the complaints about potential loss of continuity in the new film. My only point was, that TAS being canon or not is controversial, so asking that it be “confirmed” in a live action series or film before calling it canon makes sense to me. You don’t have to accept that logic, but I will.

71. Garovorkin - February 27, 2008

In a way the the flashbacks make a certain amount of sense if they are doing a reboot. We never got any origin stories or early years of the various characters in the original. I suspect that had the original series gone into a 4th ot 5th season we might have gotten those stories. Some of the trek books which are not accepted as canon , have attempt to reconstruct the early years of Kirk and Spock and Scotty with mixed results at best. Two written by Dianne Cary dealt with Kirks father George Samuel Kirk and actually had him on the enterprise of Robert April and second one had Young troubled teenage James T Kirk on Aprils Enterprise.

72. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

#61—Good question. I guess Vulcan facial hair is only “canon” in the mirror universe!

73. maspill - February 27, 2008

anthony have u seen the pics on jfxonline more sulu and a closer look at the outside set

74. maspill - February 27, 2008

72 sybok had a beard if memory serves me !! but maybe they get facial hair after pon far and we only saw young spok up to pon far

75. NCC-73515 - February 27, 2008

72, 74: Tuvok shaved his face in Year of Hell…

76. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

#74—Sybok??????? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#75—-VOY???????? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, post #72 was just a joke, guys. But my opinions of Sybok and VOY are not…

77. maspill - February 27, 2008

75 yeah but he was a grown man im sayin they have to hit puberty at there first pon far

78. Noleuser is now Morn Speaks - February 27, 2008

You forgot to mention baby Spock in Star Trek V.

79. Garovorkin - February 27, 2008

#70 Closettreker I seem to recall that the TreK Episode A Rose by any other name also contradicts the Canon. The Kelvans modifiedthe Enterprise to go to warps speeds greater then say warp 15? The next episode all this is forgotten. The enterprise can no longer go warp 15 or greater, Also that which survives in which the Aline losara sabotages the warp engins causein it to go beyond warp 10. The n in Star trek the search for spock they had Transwarp then suddenly they don’t is this the canon we want Abrams to adhere to? The Canon is useful maybe as Guideline not the Bible( which also contradicts itself). Abrams by doing the whole young Spock young Kirk is trying to establish a coherent history. not to satisfy Trekies but rfor the sake of good story telling.

80. Jorg Sacul - February 27, 2008

The USS Antares was remastered as a freighter based on TAS designs, as was the Woden. In “Amok Time”, we see the city from “Yesteryear”.

Is canon a Trekkie buffet/salad bar? No more than any history. You may deny an event having happened, but it still happened.

If a 20 foot tall clone of Spock falls in a forest, and nobody sees it, did it still happen?

If the Enterprise travels at warp 14.8 as it’s engineering computer has gone into overload, was that just the imagination of Scotty as he shoved a probe into the warp field?

There are many things in Trek that really follow no rhyme or reason, other than it made sense to that story’s plot at the time. We either live with it, or live in denial.

Watch those canon crocodiles in “de-nial”. They’ll bite yer perceptions.

81. The Vulcanista - February 27, 2008

Ya know, when Abrams is finished with Jacob in Trek, he could cast him as Sawyer and Kate’s love child in “Lost”! He looks like he could be Evangeline Lilly’s kid in that top pic.

82. I AM MONGO - February 27, 2008

Mongo think funny that Star Trek canon depend on individual perspective. People argue about cartoon. Everyone talk, nobody listen. Star Trek not bible. Star Trek not Torah. Star Trek not any kind of religion. Star Trek entertainment have many mistakes. No canon. Still fun. Mongo like watch cartoon. People no move much but story good. That what matter.

Spock pup look good. Wonder Showzen confuse Mongo at time but Mongo laugh.

83. trekkie1415 - February 27, 2008

Woot! new cast member! Is been said a lot, but it is uncanny, he does look like a 12 year old Quinto. This just keeps getting better and better! All this makes me wonder what their going to do with the sequels? Is it still going to be Spock chasing Romulans through time till he fixes everything? Hmm…

May 8, 2009! Still can’t wait!

84. trekkie1415 - February 27, 2008

IT’S been said a lot, not ‘is’… sorry everyone…

85. sean - February 27, 2008

#79

TSFS use of Transwarp wasn’t a contradiction. They state clearly in the movie it was a ‘great experiment’. I think common sense just tells us it didn’t work.

And even though it seems a bit silly, they did say the warp scale had been redone by the time of TNG, making warp 15 in TOS around warp 9.999 in TNG, DS9, etc.

Not that I’m a canon guardian. There are plenty of goofs that can’t be satisfactorily explained, no matter what elaborate loopholes some fans come up with. I just don’t think those two are the chief offenders.

86. NCC-73515 - February 27, 2008

77 – When Spock was played by Nimoy again, he was perfectly shaved ;)

87. thebiggfrogg - February 27, 2008

Speaking of canon kerfuffle and references to TAS in the live action shows, wasn’t “Tiberius” (referred to in Trek VI, if no others) first spoken on TAS. Thought I heard that somewhere.

88. thebiggfrogg - February 27, 2008

Mongo funny. Mongo right.

89. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

#87—Yes, that’s correct.

90. Sebastian - February 27, 2008

#70, Closettrekker, HERE’S what I get from your posts (correct me if I’m wrong) you feel that TAS doesn’t matter unless it is referenced in some way in a live action format. And that TAS should be dismissed because it is a “cartoon.” So, the inference (I got, anyway) is that the animated series is a juvenile cartoon that should not be taken seriously. My point was to remind you that live-action Trek had many a juvenile moment as well (it was competing with Lost in Space, for goodness’ sake). Your posts came off as dismissive of all TAS except those elements you find agreeable and the rest (on the basis of it being a “cartoon”) should be discarded in Trek memory. By the way, the giant Spock episode? The Infinite Vulcan (written by Ensign Chekov himself, incidentally)? It referenced the Eugenics Wars, so by your logic, it’s canon! It’s cool to like part of something and not the rest, no problem. But to treat the whole animated series like a failed experiment is a big injustice to the many creative folks involved. Thelin in #66 has a very good point; animated Trek won an Emmy (just like live action Trek). It has merit, like it or not.

91. Garovorkin - February 27, 2008

#85 Good point Sean. the whole transwarp concept is not really a contradiction, interesting that scotty sabotaged the Transwarp drive and for some reason the federation chose to forget about transwarp. I would file this more under my pet peeves of trek. They come up with incredible technology and they don’t use it. or they give it away. When Kirk stole the clooking devisce from the Romulans, what happens? rather then taking advantage of it they sign a treaty vowing not to develope cloaking technology if the romulans agree to play nice. Pet peeve next gen momnet the Transwarp cloak which Picard and the federation brainlessly reveal to the Romulans. and they never persue it. Dont get me started on the follies of the non interferece directive which proves the old adage “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”

92. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

#90—Again, you don’t seem to comprehend what I’m saying. No, “The Infinite Vulcan” does not become canon (IMO) simply because it references something in a live action Trek. If the Giant Spock were referenced in live action Trek, then “The Infinite Vulcan” would become canon. See the difference?
Also, perhaps you confused me with someone else. I enjoyed the animated series very much. I don’t dismiss its value at all. In fact, I like “Yesteryear” as much or more than many TOS episodes.
My acceptance of it as canon, or my non-acceptance, has nothing to do with its artistic merits. Nor does it have anything to do with who wrote it.

You, Sir, seem to infer quite a bit from very little. My “logic” on this subject is not complicated. If an event which occurs in a TAS episode is referenced in live action Trek, then that episode is validated as canon. If Abrams’ new movie depicts the first captain of the Enterprise as being Robert April, then that TAS episode is “canonized”. If not, then I will continue to assert that Chris Pike was indeed its first captain, and I’ll treat that TAS episode the way I would a novel.

Since that seems to be confusing to you, let me be clear. It has NOTHING to do with me, or my opinion of what is juvenile or silly. “Spock’s Brain” is canon. STV is canon. Once again, if JJ’s movie talks about the time that Spock turned into a Giant, then so be it. Then it becomes canon to me. If it doesn’t, then it’s no more canon to me than it would be if it were a Koenig novel. I don’t see how you are becoming confused with that.

93. maspill - February 27, 2008

yeah but in voyager they say starfleet experemented with transwarp drive but it did nt work so the excelsior could have bin the test ship and did nt work like when voyager tested the transwarp also transwarp in tsfs was transwarp drive and voyager was corridors therfore could be different transwarp techs maybe :-/

94. maspill - February 27, 2008

are spocks fillings in his teeth cannon !!!!!!
NO live with these things

95. Mr. Trek - February 27, 2008

Wow!

96. Katie G. - February 27, 2008

Re: #38 British Naval Dude

Arrrrrrrr… good one!! LOL

Re: #39 richpit

Yes, I did. Right away. My brain couldn’t wrap around it so I had to read it a few times to make sure it didn’t say “Pavel Chekov” or “Walter Koenig”. Must be kismet.

kg

97. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

#93—If I remember my VOY correctly (I make it a point to avoid rewatching that show), transwarp was referred to as something which Starfleet failed to make practical during their experiments (I took that to mean Excelsior in TSFS) in the 23rd Century. The whole “corridor” concept is possibly the only way transwarp can exist. Transwarp corridors are also mentioned in DS9, “One Little Ship”, as a possible tactical advantage which Starfleet could potentially gain over The Dominion as a result of their experiments.

#94—Canon is something that fans created to have fun with. Yes, some people can take it too seriously, but it isn’t hurting anything or anyone to talk about it. No matter what one’s opinion might me, of course we are going to “live with it” either way.

98. maspill - February 27, 2008

97 yeah i know i like the chats but some people seem to take it too far and we should just accept we all love star trek

and that was my point about the transwarp drive

99. Garovorkin - February 27, 2008

Funny the subject was I believe young Spock and like in other stories in columns it seems to fall back onto the slippery slope known as the canon arguments. We all seem to come back to this one time and again, im not pointing any fingers i seem to fall into this trap with the rest.

100. Jorg Sacul - February 27, 2008

>>Canon is something that fans created to have fun with.

Not really, as there was once a “Star Trek writer’s guide”, which set forth ideas and principles of the show. Dig up your ancient Lincoln Enterprises catalogue, it’s there right before the Kung Fu and Questor episode scripts.

Yes. I’m a nerd and a geek and a Trekkie. :-)

101. maspill - February 27, 2008

Garovorkin so what do u think of the whole young spock thing ?
99 agree

102. Garovorkin - February 27, 2008

#101 I think Abams was very wise to do this, we never really got any signicant background on these iconic characters with maybe the exception of star trek 5 and that movie did not give us alot. Abrams needs to flesh these characters out, make them seem real to the audience rather then simply larger then life. I think that is what Abrams is aiming for. He wants the audience to give the characters believability

103. I AM MONGO - February 27, 2008

#100

What guide say about all this? Mongo not have one. Maybe someone have guide can tell what is right from wrong?

Talking good. Passion for subject good. Passion expression of love. Arguing not love so much.

104. Doug - February 27, 2008

Initially Gene Roddenberry had said the animated cartoon was canon, and in later years decided it was not.

In spite of GR’s declarations to the contrary, too many details have “leeched” into the live action series and movies to NOT consider the TAS to be part of the TREK universe.

I agree with an earlier posting saying that the original actors, writers, and Gene’s participation in the animated series validates its existence. Not allowing it in the “big boys club,” to me, would be a slap in the face to all the talented people involved.

In the episode “The Jihad” a female character told Kirk “she wanted him (with a very suggestive tone).” In “The Magicks of Megas Tu,” we saw Lucian (the devil). It preached tolerance (“How Sharper Than a Serpent’s Tooth,: for example). We saw Uhura in command of the Enterprise when this had been aid was forbidden in TOS live actio series.

Let’s face it, while the animation is not the best (and for its time it actually wasn’t too bad at all), the cartoon covered some extremely adult and intelligent themes. It did a very credible job of maintaining the mythos of its roots.

Personally, I think it would be dumb to discount the animated series.

105. Jorg Sacul - February 27, 2008

The most prophetic line from TAS, ironically, Yesteryear. This was at the end of the episode, after he’d successfully returned to the corrected present.

SPOCK: Times change, Doctor. Times change…

I guess we’ll see what happens from all this time/galaxy hopping, won’t we.

106. maspill - February 27, 2008

garovorkin i hope as u say it is character based and lead rather that an action film for the sake of an action film other wise i think the film would be a bit redundant

107. maspill - February 27, 2008

maybe tas is an alternate universe of cartoon people therefore its cannon but not this universe cannon !?

108. Red Shirt - February 27, 2008

Did someone say this movie has been delayed?

109. Etha Williams - February 27, 2008

I rarely say this about children, but:

ADORABLE.

110. trekkie1415 - February 27, 2008

#107 – Totally!

weather or not TAS is cannon… (giggle) TAS just rocked. I loved it. I veiw it as cannon, but others don’t. Thats no biggie!

To each ,trekkie or just fan, their own.

111. trekkie1415 - February 27, 2008

#110 – WHETHER! Whether not Weather! Gosh Darned Me!

Sorry everyone again!

112. Rhett Coates - February 27, 2008

#39; #96 — Yeah, that leap right out in front of me. Wow—perhaps this is a “new” way to describe what may be canon and what may not be: who’s REAL name is PAVEL (Russian for English language “Paul” if I’m not mistaken) and who’s isn’t. Actor vs. Character vs. the dad of the young actor portraying Spock as a youth in ST XI………..? (LOL)

And yes, far too many items from TAS have crept into filmed ST episodes and/or ST movies. ST:ENT is full of those, whenever they went to Vulcan. They even showed a wild sehlat chasing Archer and T’Pol in “The Forge” (Vulcan’s infamous HOT HOT desert) — which is itself yet another creation of non-filmed ST but that ended up in a filmed episode of this continuing saga.

And how many of us noticed the CAITIANS on the Federation Council in ST IV? Yes, according to back-story notes from Paramount, those people were considered to be Caitians, based on the homeworld of M’Ress in TAS……..

MORE: If a fifth season of ST:ENT had been filmed, the Kzinti would have made an appearance, as per what is now being read on websites such as MEMORY ALPHA, and the making of new stories for Star Trek: Phase Two. No kidding! (“…TIBERIUS…” spoken aloud in the Klingon court scene in ST VI clinched TAS link for me as well, which was first heard in TAS episode “Bem”).

Now, just look at the way CBS Digital is remastering TOS: with elements INSPIRED by things seen in TAS……….. It remains to be seen just how much material for ST XI is taken from TAS and the novels, although hasn’t Roberto said he and his co-writer(s) are fans of ALL of Star Trek—-including [certain elements] of TAS and the novels? Whatever IS used from those sources, I trust they will add to the story being told, and will enlighten and inspire us all as the movie unfolds before us on the Big Screen. Darnit: May 2009 can’t come SOON ENOUGH!

113. Rhett Coates - February 27, 2008

#112: CORRECTION: PLEASE add the following to the last part of this sentence:

“…..And yes, far too many items from TAS have crept into filmed ST episodes and/or ST movies FOR THE ANIMATED SERIES TO SIMPLY BE IGNORED.”

114. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

#59, #90– Memory Alpha, according to Roberto Orci, has been a very useful source for keeping the new script within canon. They have even gone so far as to seriously consider giving Memory Alpha a credit in the new film. MA defines canon as anything within the 5 live action series and 10 films. They also go on to point out that TAS is officially (according to Paramount) not canon as of 1988.

This is not a slap in the face of anyone. Some of the novels and reference materials are fantastic, but they are not canon either.

#104–”In spite of GR’s declarations to the contrary, too many details have “leeched” into the live action series and movies to NOT consider the TAS to be part of the TREK universe.”

The same can be said about some of the novels, particularly some of the Vulcan background material written by original Trek writer Dorothy Fontana. But just like the novels, any such details only become canon when they are confirmed in a live action series according to that criteria. Everyone is free to decide for themselves, but to me, Christopher Pike is the first captain of the Enterprise until live action Trek tells me that it was Robert April.

MA calls TAS a valid resource, despite its existence outside of canon. Here is how I take it.

I consider TAS, “Yesteryear” to be canon. It is legitimized by DS9 and ENT. I also consider the one with Kirk’s middle name to be canon, as it was validated by STVI. I don’t consider TAS, “The Infinite Vulcan”, or the one with the cat race(?) that fought a war with Earth centuries before the TOS-era, to be canon.

Not everything GR said during his revisionist days was without merit. TAS had some great moments, but often went way off the reservation—even for Trek. One of the things he said was that if he had known that they would one day continue telling live action Trek stories, that he would have made sure that TAS was more logical and made more sense.

To me, it is what it is—-not unlike the novels, games, comics, technical manuals, etc. It can be fun and even worthy of honors and awards in some cases. It’s just not official until live action Trek makes it so.

Of course, that’s just my not-so-humble opinion.

115. British Naval Dude - February 27, 2008

funny how an article about a child has turned into an adult debate over a cartoon…

arrr arrr

*****************************************************

oh- I thought me Muppet comment above #56 was really profound… while I try not to toot me own horn, I find I need ta sometimes… lonely nights at sea and such…

ta further me Muppet thesis that an “origins movie” need not be ridiculous like Muppet Babies but rather like tha Muppet Movie, I be sayin’ that The Muppet movie had a bunch of guest stars that added ta the film as well…. course it was a comedy and not a Trekedy… but guest stars thrown in scripted roles could add a twinkle…

that be Sulu dressed as an adorable Andorian? huh?….

*******************************************************
arrrr… if I go on ’bout Muppets again, me fellow shipmates gunna beat me… & rightly so…

116. Sebastian - February 27, 2008

#104 To quote “Way to Eden,” “Yeaayyy, brother!” You can’t pick and choose bits you like from the animated series and decide, because they come up later, that they are valid or not. TAS happened; it’s out there. As for Robert April? Well, whether he’s referenced or not, he was on MY TV screen (albeit in animated form)! So, I’d look upon any future omission as one of many continuity glitches that are part of the Trek matrix, that’s all. Won’t make the movie any more or less an experience for me (my first criteria is, is it a good MOVIE?). As for Closettrekker, what I responded to was your earlier quote that because TAS is a “cartoon” is is automatically non-canon. Your posts made it seem as though you thought only those TAS elements referenced later on (in later incarnations of the show) were “canon.” That’s what I found erroneous. And I am NOT confused, thank you. As for future “canon,” I hope the movie is a good movie first; and if it is, then maybe it’ll put ALL of Star Trek on a bold, new trajectory!

117. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

All that being said, while I don’t consider all of it to be canon, I do have the TAS dvd’s on my shelf right next to TOS and the movies, and I rather enjoy watching selected episodes from time to time. For what it’s worth, the only other TOS “spinoff” I have in my dvd collection is ENT.

118. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

#115—The Muppet Babies is not canon (LOL). However, “The Muppets Take Manhattan”…..

119. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

#116—”As for Closettrekker, what I responded to was your earlier quote that because TAS is a “cartoon” is is automatically non-canon”

That’s not a quote from me. In fact, I have never referred to it as a cartoon. “Yesteryear” is an animated episode. I think of it as canon, and I think of it that way because elements of it are referenced in live action Trek. Even if it wasn’t “canon” to me, it would still be a great Star Trek story centered on one of my favorite characters. I would enjoy it like I do a good Trek novel. But because it is validated to me by DS9 and ENT, I feel comfortable calling it “canon”.

Anyway, “canon” is for fun. Use your own criteria. It doesn’t affect my enjoyment of my particular favorite brand of Trek either way, as I am sure my criteria has no effect on yours.

120. Garovorkin - February 27, 2008

#106 if it was anyone other then Abrams , I would have a lot of misgivings about this whole movie. But we’ll see.

121. CLS USMC - February 27, 2008

#114 Hate to contradict you but officially as of 2007 Paramount now officially considers TAS canon.

At the end of the day each individual can decide what they consider to be canon, but there’s no need to chop someone down if they consider something different as canon. Seeing how GR and paramount had issues deciding what is and isn’t canon, I think a little individual leeway is called for. I chose to consider it canon. If you don’t, that’s ok too.

My 2 cents.

122. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

#121—I guess Memory Alpha is slow to report that. When I checked earlier today, the latest was that they MAY change its staus to canon in the future. Whether Paramount does or not, I find it difficult to accept the whole Kzinti thing or Giant Spock. But you’re right. There has to be leeway, Devil Dog. It’s always up for debate. I hope I didn’t give the impression that I was attacking someone else’s view. I was just defending mine. I choose to limit what I consider canon to what is validated in live action Trek. I have to admit that after all of this talk, I do have an urge to watch “Yesteryear” (my favorite) again tonight. I haven’t seen it since I first bought the dvd’s. I used to wait for it to show up on repeats on Nickolodeon. I like a good Trek-fest at least once a week. Looks like tonight, it might be an animated one right after NFL Total Access.

123. Closettrekker - February 27, 2008

My wife is gonna be pissed…

124. Go Spock! - February 27, 2008

he looks GREAT for the part! very cute! :)

125. LostOnNCC1701 - February 27, 2008

Dear god, he’s perfect!

126. CLS USMC - February 27, 2008

#122 No offense taken… Just preaching some tolerance. I get little of it from my day job :)

SEMPER FI

127. girl6 - February 27, 2008

#64 ,,,tee hee,,,

This kid looks like Adam Nimoy at that age.

128. Irishtrekkie - February 27, 2008

Animated Series is NOT canon

129. Spocko - February 27, 2008

#128

If it has the Enterprise with William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, Deforest Kelley, James Doohan, Nichelle Nichols, George Takei, and Majel Barret, then it’s canon. Except it.

130. Charles Trotter - February 27, 2008

#129 Spocko — I think you mean “accept it.” Irishtrekkie is already “excepting” TAS. :-P

Enough about the whole TAS canon issue, folks. Really…

131. Divulgado ator mirim para o pequeno Spock « Startrekbr’s Weblog - February 28, 2008

[...] acordo com o site The TrekMovie o jovem ator Jacob Kogan interpretará a fase infantil de Spock no novo filme de Jornada nas [...]

132. Cervantes - February 28, 2008

#51 Dr. Image

Although I treasure my memories of the old ‘Filmation’ style animation, I would love to see the voice elements remastered along with the music/sound effects, and some additions to those done to a standard of something like this even. I’d sure buy ‘em up again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vu_wPUIh-c

133. Diabolik - February 28, 2008

Speaking of Adam Nimoy, I wonder how he’d look in Vulcan makeuo now… ever since seeing him with Spock ears in the blooper picture, I have wished he would get a role as either a young Spock or a relative…

134. Diabolik - February 28, 2008

Picture of young Spock… er, Leonard, for comparisons…

http://www.ponilla.org/Nimoy/Shows/Bio_18.jpg

135. The Vulcanista - February 28, 2008

#134

Wow! Leonard was a little cutie back in the day!

Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|

136. The Vulcanista - February 28, 2008

#122, 123

Uh, I’m thinkin’ you might owe your dear and patient wife some Lifetime Channel movietime this weekend… Just a thought. :-)

Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|

137. Captain Canucklehead - February 28, 2008

Little Spock – LOL

138. Closettrekker - February 28, 2008

#136–I’m afraid Lifetime and “musicals” are always off the table (I might as well ask her to watch TAS with me!). That is why I bought her a TiVo box for her own “personal” use, and a 40″ TV on the bedroom wall to use it with. As I’ve said before, though, she will occasionally torture me with Chick flics. I’m actually pretty good about it, and she tolerates the Rocky movies, Godfather films, Jaws, and other stuff in the “movies for guys who like movies” category. I love my wife, and from what she says, she loves me too! My kids are my Trek buddies (along with all of you of course).

139. The Vulcanista - February 28, 2008

#138

Wouldn’t it be great if Trek fans had a compound (much like the mythical feminist compound in Idaho) where we could send our SOs to indoctrinate them into the ways of Trek?

Imagine the ensuing domestic tranquility!

Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|

140. Closettrekker - February 29, 2008

#139–Yes, but I’d have to lie and say that I was sending her to a 24 hour spa!

141. eagle219406 - February 29, 2008

In my humble opinion. While the Animated series was pretty good, it was not considered canon. Gene didn’t consider it canon, and neither do I. It is not even in the encyclopedia. I my opinion, Star Trek: New Voyages/Phase II is more of a connection than the Animated series was. I mean you never saw them wear life support belts in the movies or The Next Generation. Which means, they didn’t really exist.

142. indranee - March 1, 2008

cool! a dead ringer for Quinto. but can he do the Vulcan salute?!

143. Cali-Trek - December 28, 2008

Judging by the Kogan’s acting ability, he sucks. Joshua was one of the worst films I have seen, thank god his part will be brief in this film

144. team mobile phones - October 28, 2011

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