Exclusive: Lindelof Talks Trek Essentials + Lost/Trek Connections February 28, 2008
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Interview, ST09 Creative , trackback
The core team behind the new Star Trek has been described as a "Supreme Court" comprised of co-writers Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman, along with director JJ Abrams, executive producer Bryan Burk and producer Damon Lindelof. Lindelof (also the Emmy-winning show runner for Lost) is said to be one of the bigger Trek fans on the team and so TrekMovie.com decided it was time to have a chat. In part one (below) of our interview, Lindelof describes his Trek favorites, Lost/Trek connections and what he sees as essential in the new Trek.
TrekMovie.com: I have met everyone else on the Supreme Court, but not you
Damon Lindelof: Well I am the silent judge who sits in my robe in the back and quietly waits for everyone to get locked up in a vote and sweep in to write the majority opinion
TrekMovie.com: What kind of robe do you wear? A Vulcan robe or a bath robe?
Damon Lindelof: Its a little bit of a combo. It terry cloth Vulcan robe. It is interchangeable. You can use it to sit on the high council or to just step out of the shower. It is handy dandy…available soon from Paramount marketing
TrekMovie.com: I know you are on the Trekkie wing of the court
Damon Lindelof: Just for the record the true Trekker is Bob. I would say that on the spectrum of Trekkers, on a scale of 1 to 10, Bob is about a 7 and I would be somewhere in the 5 neighborhood. And Bryan, JJ and Alex would be somewhere in the 1-4 range varying. I have seen all the episodes of The Original Series and am a huge fan. Plus pretty much all the episodes of Next Generation and then I sort of floundered in the Deep Space Nine, Voyager, Enterprise era. I have seen all the movies, of course. But I would not hold myself to the high standards of Bob Orci.
TrekMovie.com: Well he has read the books too
Damon Lindelof: Yes that’s true so he is even outside canon.
TrekMovie.com: So quickly then, what is your favorite series, movie and episode?
Damon Lindelof: Favorite movie: Wrath of Khan. Favorite series: Next Generation. Favorite episode: the series finale of Next Generation, where it starts with Picard picking fruit with Geordi and he sees Tasha Yar and so on and so forth. I would go on to say that it is probably the best series finale of any television series ever.
TrekMovie.com: In a way it almost feels like Lost feels now, with the flash forwards and flashbacks.
Damon Lindelof: The episode tonight ["The Constant"] is our version of "All Good Things" which we had to do at this point in the series and not at the end or we would be really ripping it off. It is definitely an homage to that sort of storytelling
TrekMovie.com: Can we expect any Lost ‘Easter eggs’ in the movie? I know there was one in MI3.
Damon Lindelof: And there was one in Cloverfield as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if something like that happened…All I have to say is Trek is its own universe and we would never impinge on it with something that affected story. But we might throw a nugget or two of fun little things to acknowledge that might pop up in the movie
TrekMovie.com: As a Trek fan. What do you think is the essential component of Trek that will appeal to audiences today even though it is a forty year old franchise?
Damon Lindelof: What has always been appealing to me about it — aside from the sense of exploration and the wonder of waking up in a job and never know what you are going to find that day as opposed to the monotony of it all. What always has been awesome about Trek for me, and what makes this movie great, is the idea of this real team of people. This iconic crew of people and each person has their own function and they all interrelate with each other in interesting ways. Although the center of the movie is the relationship and conflict between Kirk and Spock, the reality is, when we are on the set…when they are all together — Scotty and Uhura and Spock and Kirk and Chekov and Sulu and Pike — that you go ‘wow’ This is what it is all about, the crew.
More Lindelof to come
Check back in the next couple of days for Part 2 of the TrekMovie.com interview with Lindelof where we talk about the change of release dates, promotional plans for the movie and more.
Watch Lost tonight
The time twisting and Trek homage “The Constant,” written by Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, airs tonight at 9PM on ABC. See previews below
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Comments»
Cool interview.
I cannot wait for this movie!!
first…sounds interesting
This dang movie is so far away, and I hate to think about this, but other movies are gonna be scheduled very close to it, and might hurt the B.O. It’s too bad the WGA strike forced Paramount to shuffle the release date deck…
Nice!
First!
Cant’s wait to watch LOST tonight even more now if’s it’s going to be their “All Good Things”
You think you have all the time in the world, and then….yep….
I know this is a vapid thing to point out, but… does every single person on this “supreme court” wear dark rimmed hipster glasses?
“All Good Things” tossed out linear storytelling to round out a series that virtually always stayed linear. And the world, as we all remember, ended.
I think the movie is going to be fun… if May 2009 ever actually arrives.
WHAT WAS THE “EASTER EGG” IN “M:i:III?”
I consider myself a pretty big “Lost” fan, but I don’t recall picking up on any “easter egg” in MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE III? Does anyone know what it was???
Dear DaiMon LindeLoffagus™
The interweb’s hitch-one-nine-six-nine here. Thank you for coming to the Trek movie.com with interviews and whatnot. You, Sir JJ®, the Orcster©, and dem other blokes seem like capable massive handspans to care for the future of da franchise. Me has never seen the Lost, but me watches tonight on dis referense.
BEST!!
=h=
re:8
Oh crap, man, you are gonna hate J.J.’s costumes then…
He should revisit DS9 for obvious reasons.
To lump it in with VOY and ENT really shows he’s not familiar with it and the quality of writing it exhibits.
Ah, the Producer—often forgotten member of the TrekXI supreme court. Nice to hear from him, although I am disappointed that he chose TNG as his favorite series. He must have had some input on the dialogue. Perhaps that explains the whole Yelchin “away team” thing. Still, a 5 on the Trekker scale is better than anything 4 or below.
“All Good Things…”, huh? That wouldn’t even make my top 80, but ok. IDIC.
At least his favorite movie was TWOK.
#4—-That’s quite the assumption on your part, considering the director, writer/executive producer, and studio have all stated that the move was 100% due to their increased confidence in the film after seeing the dailies. In fact, they have stated clearly that the writer’s strike had nothing to do with it at all. Are they flat out lying? Where is this inside information coming from? I’m sure the carbon units that infest trekmovie.com would want to know!
interesting slip… obviously we all knew that Pike appears in the movie and would have interaction with of course Spock and most likely Kirk, but he mentions him as appearing with the ENTIRETY of the classic bridge crew! fascinating…
hhmmmmm
#15—Maybe he does….during the change of command.
Ahahahaha! Bob Orci a “7″? He knows more than most of the people on this incredibly nerdy site, and, I daresay, a good bit more than, say, Brannon Braga. His explanation of “built on Earth” was the single best encapsulation of how canon works in a particular instance of writing that I have ever seen.
Orci is -at least- a 9.5. Which makes me think that D.L. is being modest. Maybe a 7, with Abrams a 5 (5 equalling “casual fan”)
Of course, the fact that D.L. agrees with me on favorite movie, series, -and- episode counts in his favor, too.
Great part 1 interview!
15 maybe it was a slip of the tounge
#17 - i’ll readily admit that’s all it might be; it’s just that the way he phrased it made it sound more… significant than that. intriguing possiblities!
…and i may be reading more into it than there really is because i’m sitting at work bored out of my skull.
is it me or does he look like a bald JJ at the top pic
#22—Fascinating….
Hmmm is he insinuating that some of the events in the future do not take place in Lost like they did in “All Good Things…”? Probably not.
At the moment the only team of “collaborators” that I really enjoy at the moment would be the Bad Robot team and Judd Apatow’s group.
#18
re: fan scale, I concur.
#4: As I understand it, the strike didn’t force the release-date change, but rather the strike opened up what the studio percieved as a business opportunity. By reducing the number of potential summer blockbusters being hustled by other studios at the same time, it opened up a ripe window into which they’re inserting Star Trek with hopes. Depending on how you interpret that, it’s either a compliment to the movie (The dailies look greatl This movie is aweome! This can hold its own as a blockbuster!) or something other (This movie is a dumb enough actioner to be gobbled up by the summer popcorn crowd … provided the competition is light!). As an optimist I cling to my hope that it’s more of the former, less of the latter.
As for the interview: I certainly agree that Trek is about the cast, although speaking from my own fannish bias it all centers on the man he didn’t mention: Leonard McCoy ;) Anyway, Lindelof seems like a reasonable dude, so that’s cool.
RE: James and the scale
I actually did say to Damon that I thought he was underselling himself and bob…bob is certainly in the 8 to 9 category. But from all my talks with these guys they seem humbled by the ‘trekkers’ and I think he is just being modest.
even though I run this site I dont know if I would put myself above an 8 or 9. I dont own any Trek costumes, and dont really collect stuff. I had only gone to one con before I went to cover it for the site. I have seen every episode multiple times and read a couple dozen books, but I often find myself needing to call on people like Jeff Bond, Daren Dochterman or John Tenuto to help me with stuff.
#26—I noticed that ommission too. Bones is the missing piece there. I’m sure that if he thought about it again he would agree. It’s hard to miss that key force in the great TOS-era and the original films.
“He’s dead, Jim.”
“Damnit, Jim!”
“Now wait just a damned minute”.
“You’re in bed, holding a knife at your doctor’s throat!”
“Suppose they went nowhere?!?!”
“You green-blooded, inhuman…”
“Who’s holding up the damned elevator?”
“Damnit, do you want an acute case on your hands?”
“Spock, so help me, I’m actually pleased to see you!”
“It’s his revenge, for all those arguments he lost.”
Enough said.
The DaiMon™ is correct in his assessment of the TNG finale. I’ve always thought that, too, about it being the best finale ever of any show of all time. That kind of story telling reminds me of a chick that I dated back at University. The romance was all over the place, time was non-linear yet in perspectus to my rectus… had a definite beginning middle and end. Starting with the child support hearing, then cutting back to the first two weeks of the relationship, all that wonderment… throw in her catching me cheating on her, then end the story with a Saturday dad taking his young son to Chuck E. Cheese™ during visitation. Or maybe you switch those last two around, so its like the father son moment followed by the infidelity moment. And you end it on that note because deys mo fish in that sea where that one came from. Then the father passing on the knowledge and experience to the young man. But not in a badmouthing his mother kind of way.
I think that Star Trek can be like that… like James T and his son David - these things are cyclical in nature, and the one constant being the human heart. SO you’re a great starship Captain, Starfleet’s finest - but what about your interpersonal relationships with the chicks? Did time not teach us the lessons of time? NO. It’s the human heart, ya dig? Instinct, passion and emotion. Logic is only the beginning of wisdom, Valeris. That’s what makes us Humans Being.
Shine On!!
=h=
Am I the only one who caught the soundbite from Lindelof about, “the center of the movie is the relationship and conflict between Kirk and Spock”
Is the story arc to the movie that they start off at odds with each other before developing their lifelong friendship?
Hitch…..yo da man!
Thanks to both parties for the interview.
I hope one of the Trek Council will step up and state whether or not the 5 extra months will be utilized, if needed, for rewrites and/or reshoots? Now that the strike is over will JJ revisit any filmed scenes for redos?
The adventure continues…
lets not get caught up in him not throwing in McCoy’s name…it was a conversation. We all know that McCoy, played by Trek fan Karl Urban, is a key part of the film and (as Bob Orci said in his interview) the kirk/spock/mccoy troika dynamic is part of the film
but hey this is trek so nitpick away
can anyone tell me what the Easter egg was in MI 3?
The easter egg in MI:III was during the thank-you section of the end credits, where a “very special thank-you” was given to The Hanso Foundation.
after reading that all I can say is that ,trek is very good and capable hands, we have nothing to worry about her. But the wait till may of 2009 that is really going to be a killer.
#33 - “but hey this is trek so nitpick away” - Sounds good to me! >;>}
#13: “He should revisit DS9 for obvious reasons.
To lump it in with VOY and ENT really shows he’s not familiar with it and the quality of writing it exhibits.”
Nah, he’s got it right - the Franchise foundered after TNG, which is why the ratings went south on DS9 faster than anyone would have thought possible. It wasn’t as remarkable a show as its fans would have it - which is why the audience tuned out and never returned.
hitch#29- Your cyclical analogy was touching hitch - it is obvious that you have given much thought to your time on the planet. Yesterday’s mistakes serve as today’s road markers.
Anthony- Never gave much thought to where I rate on a fan scale - no costumes, a few fanzines, only a few of the TOS novels read. Do you think Lindelof judges fan mania based on whether said fan is a devotee of all the ST series? If that is the case, my fan rating stops after the TOS films!
Closettrekker#28- Good list of McCoy quotes!
Harry#30- That brings to mind the spoiler about Chris Pine’s speech in front of the academy command structure, his demand to know his accuser and the fact that Quinto stands up. Sounds like there will indeed be conflict, at least at the academy level. So what the heck happens that draws Kirk and Spock into such a tight friendship? I say shared danger, perhaps something having to do with a downed cadet ship on an icy planet? And perhaps some other cadets (and/or crew) on board that
downed ship might be McCoy, Scotty, Sulu and Uhura (don’t know where Chekov would fit in but he would be too young to be at the academy at the same time as Kirk and Spock).
MY FAVORITE McCOY QUOTE:
“I’m a doctor, not a moooon-shuttle conductor!”
#35 thanks, now I have figure out what Hanso foundation is, I will google it. Sorry for my ignorance.
Also I am going to have to dig out my ST TNG DVD’s and watch the finale. I am sure I watched it when aired, but its been a long time.
All in all a good day in trekmovie, thanks Anthony and can’t wait for the next part of the interview.
#38
I’m with you Dennis, DS9 is terrible.
#38 and #42 Im sorry i have to respectfully disagree with the both you on this point. DS9 was the best of all the trek Series.and one of the best scifi series of all time. It had best writing the best acting and the best Captain Benjamin Sisko. Yes I agree that both enterprise and Voyager were wanting they were where the franchise foundered . So no Ds9 does not need to be revisited.
So…
He keeps referring to us as “Trekkers.” LOL!
Guess he wants to stay away from the “geek” matra that comes with “Trekkie.”
So, would it be safe to say that fans that are born form this movie could be calloed “Trekkers” as we Trakkies” were coined that way by the Great Bird himself?
LOL!
the ratings dont lie. A lot of fans, like lindelof and Abrams, walked away from trek in the mid nineties. I myself only caught the occasional episode of DS9 and VOY during their first runs. I have since seen them both entirely on DVD and found DS9 to be exceptional….but the fact sill remains that many trek fans didn’t give it that second chance. I do hope that Damon gets the chance to review it now, but he is a pretty busy guy.
Lindelof certainly wasn’t critiquing the shows…just noted that he didnt watch them that much…of course the period they were on was also when his career started to take off so that can also be a factor.
#45 apologies for the rant Anthony, I hate it when people dismiss this show the way they do.
#42
I agree also, I was never a fan of DS9 (it never “felt” like Trek to me)…but it was never as bad as Voyager was on a constant basis, IMO.
Garovorkin…it wasn’t a rant, it was a passionate observation!
#40. And don’t forget to purse your lips when you say “moooon shuttle.” Love that line, too!
IMHO, DS9 was tyhe most innovative of all the Treks. The rest of them tried to re-capture lightning in a bottle by revisiting TOS. The ensemble cast really worked as a group, instead of just a few stars with regular sidekicks. Of all the Treks, I love TOS the best but I respect DS9 the most.
it is great to see the guy who runs what is the best show on TV, LOST say that the TNG finale was the best ever….and to say that what Trek is about is the crew (not explosions, etc)…talk about the ‘right answers’
…yet all some people can do is complain that he didnt watch enough episodes of their fave series or that he left one characters name off a list of other names. Anthony is right…pedantic. I think there really is something wrong with a lot of trekkies.
Personally I would never give interviews because there really is no way to not end up getting attacked. I look forward to part two where I am sure the same people will be back nitpicking and looking for stuff to attack
DS9s episode “Visitor” is the sole reason I got into Trek at all
#28
I too love the verbage spilling from McCoy…
“That green blooded son of a bitch. It’s his revenge for all those arguments he lost to me”
And we’ll forgive him for his one stinker…
“it seems they’re bisexual, reproducing at will”
Mayhaps a trip back to the medical journals was in order ;)
I agree that DS9 was indeed one of the finest Trek series (more consistent than even TNG) but I don’t read anything derogatory in his remark. Even though I loved DS9, the fact is many fans didn’t watch the show when it was on the air (of course, a lot of people weren’t watching TOS when it was on the air either).
I’m thrilled he cited ‘All Good Things’ as a favorite. That is the most satisfying conclusion to any Trek - or hell, any series besides ‘Quantum Leap’ maybe - and a really fantastic 2 hours. It paid respect to every character in a way that none of the TNG movies ever managed. In retrospect, I think I’d have preferred TNG to have gone out that way, instead of floundering on the big screen for almost a decade.
#50 Sisko while I agree that All Good Things Was a very Good Finale, The best ever trek ? in my opinion no it wasn’t. Have to go with the seaon finale of DS9 What You Leave Behind. that had wonderful ending with Sisko ebracing his destiny with the prophets and Telling Kassidy why he couldn’t be with her, it was poetic in a way that All Good Things was not . When Lindelof make that statement without having considered all the trek series then I have to say that he is not entitled to that opinion.
“Nah, he’s got it right - the Franchise foundered after TNG, which is why the ratings went south on DS9 faster than anyone would have thought possible. It wasn’t as remarkable a show as its fans would have it - which is why the audience tuned out and never returned.”
Really surprised to hear you say that, Dennis. Not only do I think your assesment of DS9’s quality is off the mark–pound for pound I’d rate the writing, acting and production values with the best of TOS and TNG at the very least, even as I found a lot to dislike about the show’s direction in its final two years–but claiming to know for certain why the ratings were in decline is pretty problematic and simplistic in any case. You can put it down to quality all you want, and maybe it’s even so, but franchise fatigue is just as likely a possibility.
#30 Harry
Sounds like that’s the case.
Lindelof himself!! Thanks for feeding the geeks, Anthony! This one’s a tasty morsel of prime rib!
Time for Lost…
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
i have added a poll on best finale for Trek. I gave ENT two choices
nothing like wiki, Hanso was the financial backer of the Dharma inatitive from the show lost, cool stuff. I remember someone telling me that there was something simuliar at the end credits of Cloverfield, wasn’t it Nimoy saying The Final Frontier” but I don’t thats correct, can anyone refresh my memory of that Easter egg?
Now its time to settle in for Lost the constant, now even more excited with what was mentioned by Mr. Lindeoff.
I did search for Mission: Impossible/Lost easter eggs. Here’s what I found, form a guy’s blog:
From Keri Russell having a bit part in the movie, music snippets from Lost, to Greg Grunberg (who has been in Alias, Lost and Felicity) having a cameo role, the call sign “Outrigger” being used (Dixon’s in Alias), the Rambaldi artifact reference, the Marshall-clone techy guy and much much more. The last episode of Alias had a guy with a bomb implanted in his head and the movie has this too - not quite the same, but similar enough to know it’s no co-incidence in cross-promoting Alias. Oceanic Airlines pops up and so does the “Hanso Foundation” from Lost.
Someone actually voted for “Turnabout Intruder”? How pathetic. Not only was it the worst of all the Trek final eps, it was one of the worst Trek episodes of all time. The hissy-fit that Kirk/Lester throws at the court martial hearing is one of the great Trek embarassements of all time. Even that monumental ham, Shatner, should have been ashamed of himself.
#56 Michael I don’t dispute your argument on the ratings number s i can’t. DS9 was far superior to the Next Generation Why? Simple because in dS9 you had characters that actually had depth , dimension and flaws, they could work together but did not always get along ,they weren’t the perfect well adjusted everyone always gets along little robots on the next generation The character on Ds9 were more real and more believable then the Next Generation cast. Also in Ds9 the actions and mistakes of characters had consequences, the continuing story arcs allowed for character development in a way that next generation could not. In the next generation mistakes tended to not have consequences, every new episode things went back to zero. I will concede that they did make some efforts to address this problem of Next generation they tried to change this with mixed results.
Like most Trek shows, DS9 had some weak moments in the first two seasons (but there was also some GOLD in there).
As it went on it quickly gained momentum to become what is my favourite Star Trek series.
Damon Lindelof lists TNG as his favorite ST series so I see where his loyalties lie. Are we going to see a return to Rick Berman’s anti-TOS attitude? I personally find this information very disturbing.
I’m watching Lost right now and it IS just like All Good Things
And for the record DS9 is the best series! Obviously!
Hey Moogie…
thanks for making my point.
did you even read where he said he had seen ever TOS episode and was a “huge fan”….and from this you come away with he is another ‘anti-tos rick berman’ what is wrong with you?
54. look at my name…you dont need to tell me how good the ds9 finale is. My point is that a guy who considered the top of his field in TV things that a star trek episode is the best finale of all time….I think that is kind of cool. Of course if it were me interviewing (no offense Anthony) i would have told him he needs to see “what you leave behind” before making the call
#66 yes Sisko I can read your name just fine. Sorry im just a little bit biased on this one. If he’s going to make that judgement he should at least see and compare all of the episodes first, i don’t think he has seen all the trek series at least thats the impression that i get. He seems to be causally dismissing Ds9 and its accomplishments and that is where I have a problem with him
#33: Nobody nitpicked or got worked up, or even anything close … Not even a little teeny bit close. Sometimes I wonder if you’re reading these boards through some kind of Response-O-Magnifi-O-Meter :)
#68
Well, in all fairness, it’s a natural response on A’s part.
But he did give his blessing for the Sacred Picking of the Nits Ritual.
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#69: And a fine blessing it is, a welcome and warm blessing … but I couldn’t indulge even if I were inclined to. I haven’t even seen all the Trek _films_ let alone the eps past a certain year :)
Vulcanista#68- “Sacred Picking of the Nits Ritual” needs to be canonized.
Good Lost tonight.
One can only imagine how much more we would have seen of the inner lives of our beloved TOS characters if they had been given support by the network suits and stayed on the air as long as the spinoffs series decades later.
#70
LOL! Well, you better get busy!! You got a lotta work to do!
#71
Shaya tonat!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
Re: #63 Moogie
“Damon Lindelof lists TNG as his favorite ST series so I see where his loyalties lie….”
Don’t jump to conclusions, Moog. It may be his favourite but I don’t think he’d shoot himself in the foot by not making a good movie. These are intelligent men who know that there are gazillion TOS fanatics out here (and I’m one of them) so I will just choose to believe that they will realize the weight on their shoulders and the responsibility they have and not act like fanboys (by insisting on their individual favourites) and produce a great movie.
Speaking of favourites, maybe there is something wrong with me but I love all five of the Treks. Each one had it’s bad and great moments. I loved it all. Actually watched TAS but couldn’t quite get into it. (Sorry guys.)
kg
What an awesome season of Lost - another excellent episode tonight.
Loved Desmond asking Dan about not using any shielding for his head.
And his phone call with Penny was pretty darn touching too!
ONE of my favorite McCoy quotes:
“If I jumped every time a light went on, I’d end up talking to myself.”
Since many say here they don’t… well, I personally liked DS9 to some extent. The title theme was awesome! The cast was great and they had good story arcs, character development etc. What I absolutely loved was the Section 31 thing. That would’ve made a good spin-off. The idea of the Federation having a darker side was very appealing.
Vulcanista
hope you saw my response in the “chat” section!
Not to mention my post in the Shatner/Oprah thread!
#79
Thanks, Harry! Message received and understood.
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
#76
Yep, that Dan is one squirrely genius. I imagine there’s much, much more to be said for him and his “work.”
W/o being too spoilery, very romantic episode. Loved it!
Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|
WHEN DID DS9 START TO KICK INTO HIGH-GEAR?
Just curious as to what the general consensus might be…
I remember HATING the first two seasons of DS9 with a passion; by the time the third season rolled around, VOYAGER was now on the air, too, and I was simply burned-out on ALL things STAR TREK. I wasn’t happy with the last 2 seasons of TNG, either, and had pretty much given up on the “Berman-era” sameness/blandness.
However, I’ve certainly heard over the years that, much like the initial seasons of TNG, DS9 rapidly got better around the 3rd or 4th season and once Berman loosened his iron grip on that show to concentrate more on VOY.
So what would be a good starting point/season to try and rediscover DS9? I’m somewhat eager to give it another shot and Netflix some DVD’s (there ain’t no way I’m paying more than $50 to own a series that I’m not so sure about to begin with). I’m open-minded and all ears!
Re: #10 SPB or #34 cyberghost or #35 Alex or #59 Nelson
Okay, so I’m not in the inner circle. Would someone please tell me what is meant by the term “Easter Egg”?
Re: #45 Anthony
If the ratings were so low, how on earth did DS9/VOY manage to stay on the air for seven seasons each? (It’s not an attack — I’m just asking a question.) What keeps something on the air if it’s not the viewing audience? Obviously there’s a lot I do NOT know about television broadcasting.
kg
#43 etc. - DS9, for the most part, was good: solid storytelling and characterization. Voyager was pathetic: lame Braga gimmick of the week episodes. Enterprise had some potential, but also ultimately suffered from terminal bragaitis.
I hope some of the “Supreme Court” have TOS as their favorite since this movie is in the pre-TOS/TOS timeframe.
#83 -
(From Wikipedia because I am lazy):
A virtual Easter egg is an intentional hidden message or feature in an object such as a movie, book, CD, DVD, computer program, or video game. The term draws a parallel with the custom of the Easter egg hunt observed in many western nations.
This practice is analogous to hidden signature motifs such as Diego Rivera including himself in his murals or Alfred Hitchcock’s legendary cameo appearances.
I’d rate TNG somewhere after TOS and DS9 in my Trek line up but All Good Things was an exceptional finale in many ways. I would not presume to dispute Mr. Lindelof but I think Bob Orci is a level 8 or 9 Trekker. It’s a much harder today - I knew the titles of every TOS and TAS episode but I couldn’t be bother with the later series.
Speaking of TNG etc. I hope be don’t see too much TNG influence in STXI. With all the talk about reboots, TNG was the biggest reboot of all in my book. It looked and felt completely different and very very seldom ever built on anything from TOS. The Action/Adventure ethos of TOS was very different that the melodrama of TNG.
I personally am not thrilled about the movie having a conflict between Kirk and Spock at the center. I don’t expect them to love each other immediately, of course, but I don’t like them starting with a conflict. It doesn’t feel like TOS to me; rather it feels like a dramatic contrivance that doesn’t belong. I can’t see Spock disliking Kirk or even Kirk strongly disliking Spock. They both seem like reasonable enough people not to have a big dislike each other. Of course maybe there is just a conflict, as in Spock reporting on Kirk for cheating, which is ok. But if they’re going to make it a dislike/anger thing, I don’t care for it.
#61 Thank you.
Anyone who can’t acknowledge DS9’s superior writing, acting, and production quality is truly pulling the wool over his own eyes. (And superior to TNG, I might add.)
Oh yes, ratings are EVERYTHING!!!
Obviously then, a show like Firefly wasn’t any good because the RATINGS said so….
How sad is it that some people actually believe things like this??
There are certain episodes I never get tired of seeing, and “All Good Things…” is one of them. The only one I like better is “Best Of Both Worlds,” in spite of a weak-ish ending. TOS has the most number of episodes I never get tired of seeing, with “City On the Edge,” “Trouble With Tribbles,” and “Doomsday Machine,” amongst them. I’ve enjoyed rewatching the VOY premiere on occasion, as well as the finale. DS9 and ENT had some moments, but they don’t really do anything for me.
Gary Seven
Spock to be angry at Kirk would be………………..,wait for it,……………..illogical!!!
Re: #28 Closet-Trekker
More McCoy Moments:
“Dammit, Jim, I’m a Doctor, not a bricklayer” (when ordered to treat the Horta in a TOS ep)
“I’m a Doctor, not an escalator” (when trying to help the very pregnant Eleen up into a cave, TOS ep “Friday’s Child”)
“I liked him better before he died” (speaking about Spock in ST:IV).
“You really have gone where no man has gone before” (ST:IV)
Spock says “One moment Doctor. I’m receiving distress calls” to which McCoy replies “I don’t doubt it…” (ST:IV)
“Shut-up, Spock. We’re rescuing you.” (TOS ep “The Immunity Syndrome)
“Of course, Mr. Spock. Your emotional reaction was quite logical… in a pig’s eye…” (comment after Spock reacts ecstatically on discovering he did not kill the Captain in “Amok Time”.
Can’t think of any more at the moment.
Great memories. Thanks for bringing it up.
kg
MikeG
you nailed it! I feel EXACTLY the same way!!
The only thing I’d add is that TNG had some SUPERB episodes such as Inner Light, Tapestry, Family and others……………ain’t Trek great??
Katie G
Ratings for Star Trek grew during TNG and peaked with the last seasons for TNG…every year since on both syndication and on UPN the ratings declined.
DS9 stayed on the air because syndication is still a good business even without huge ratings so DS9 still made good money.
VOY stayed on the air because it was on UPN and for a while was the best show, but on the worst network. Voyager ratings would never have survived past a season on CBS (who just happen to own Star Trek). As for ENT, well it is likely if it werent on UPN it wouldnt have lasted 4 years either.
but the evidence is actually all around you. TOS and TNG are part of pop culture. The only ones to justify film franchises. The final 3 series were popular to varying degress with Trekkies…but do not have the mainstream appeal. So (like Damon) may walked away. As I admitted, I too walked away only to come back later.
Re: #85. cd
Yes! Thank you!! We have always looked for Alfred Hitchcock’s cameos in his movies and found that Peter Jackson did it in the LOTR trilogy as well. Don’t know if he did it in his other movies because I haven’t seen them.
I wonder if Patrick Stewart (Picard) was doing it when the “Moby Dick” reference came up in ST:VIII (First Contact) when he and Lily were arguing about whether to blow the ship up to destroy the Borg on it. For those who do not know, Stewart played “Ahab” in a production of “Moby Dick” so I found that interesting. Don’t know the timing so it could just be a tremendous coincidence.
It will be interesting now to look for Easter Eggs in ST:XI (so fa-a-a-a-r away).
Thanks again!!
kg
Re: #93. Anthony
Wow — that’s very interesting info. (And I forgot about Enterprise…). Thank you for taking the time to type that indepth answer!
kg
I haven’t noticed any comments on the other influence on the later Trek’s ratings–time slots!
More specifically, the lack of consistent time slots. Even with TNG I sometimes had difficulty in catching all the episodes since it often got pre-empted by sports programming on my local affiliates. Oh, and then there was the time it changed affiliates as well. This type of programming continued with all the series even when they were on a “network” since my local stations (cable or broadcast) managed to find something more important to pre-empt it and/or rebroadcast at a ridiculus time–even for the good old VCR since they didn’t always start the programs at the exact time it was supposedly scheduled.
Now, maybe this wasn’t true in some of the larger markets (I started with the Dayton, Ohio market with TNG and moved into the Grand Rapids, Michigan market for the remainder of TNG and the other series). I can’t help but think if this was commonplace elsewhere then program schedules and the increasing programming competition contributed to the “decline” of Trek as much as any of the other reasons given (i.e., Berman/Braga, decline in quality/orginality, etc.).
Even now, with some of my current favorite shows on cable it gets frustrating when they take a “break” and return at some oddball date or broadcast a “special” episode in between (like Battlestar Galactica, for instance–even I didn’t watch some of the other programming on SciFi I would not be aware of when these programs were airing new episodes). Say what you will about the Big 3 (or 4) but you at least have a somewhat dependable schedule that allows you to pretty much keep up with your favorite programs and when the new episodes will air.
In summary, DS9 is actually my favorite Trek series apart from TOS but it might have suffered from both the serial storytelling and slippery time slot when it came to ratings rather than it being a lesser quality Trek. Although, I caught the rebroadcast of “How William Shatner Changed the World” and realized that the darker side of Trek might have not been as appealing to a lot of the TOS fans because it lost the optimism of original Trek. As for storytelling, however, DS9 was in many ways superior to the other Trek incarnations if you don’t think of it terms of Trek alone.
Lost actually reminds more of DS9 then the other Trek series which is probably why I am now a fan and looking forward to the great potential of the new movie next year!
Oh, I didn’t see that coming:
“Captain’s Log. The Enterprise is on route to planet Dharma IV to pick up a group of shipwrecked Federation citizens who had been lost there for six years.”
:)
I loved DS9… its my second favorite series after TOS.
I think DS9 was a perfect follow-up to TNG… in TOS, while it was a future of optimism, Kirk was not afraid to get into fights, or wars, or to do the right thing. He had a strong moral centre and it got him into trouble sometimes. Same went with the Federation… they didn’t want war, but they were ready for it all the time. The Prime Directive was a guideline… he’d resort to anything he needed to in order to protect the Federation.
TNG was this arrogant, stitled, utopian future built off the efforts of the comparatively rough Kirk era and a period in between where the Federation seemed to have regressed militarily. Diplomacy, research and warm feelings were the mantra, and a pure scholar and explorer like Picard fit in great. There was this air of invincibility, despite falling behind militarily and narrowly avoiding obliteration by the Borg, amongst others.
DS9 showed the dark side of arrogance. The federation’s unbridled enthusiasm lead them vicariously into a war that they nearly lost. They were not prepared for combat and got their asses handed to them more often than not. Sisko (while intolerant of Garak and S31) resorted to their level of tactics to protect what he loved, and cast aside the arrogance of the TNG era. It was gritty, dirty… but it was real. There was always optimism… even when they lost DS9, the baseball was there as a beacon of optimism that they’d be back.
Re: #40. SPB
“I’m a doctor, not a moooon-shuttle conductor!”
Which episode was that in? I’m drawing a blank.
Will check back tomorrow. I’m bleary.
Goodnight.
kg
Anthony, you’re a tease! :) It sounds like you’re saving the juicy tidbits of the interview for part 2. I’m really looking forward to it.
As to DS9: I love the series, and I think it was one of the best written of the spin offs series. It’s unfortunate that it’s grouped with Voyager and Enterprise, but sadly DS9 started the trend of Star Trek hemorrhaging viewers. I really think it hurt that DS9 started out when TNG was still on air, and DS9’s first two seasons were very weak over all. It didn’t start to hit it’s stride until season 3.
But by then many people had already made up their minds, and it was too late to lure them back. Still, it did well enough to last 7 seasons which is more than MANY shows get, and we got some wonderful stories and compelling characters that I hope people will continue to discover through reruns and checking out the DVDs.
Re: #40. SPB
“I’m a doctor, not a moooon-shuttle conductor!”
Which episode is that in? I can hear him saying it in my mind, but can’t remember in which context and episode it’s in.
Will check back tomorrow. I’m beat.
kg
Ooops. Sorry about that. Malfunction at this end…
kg
Also, DS9 is my seconf favorite behind The Original Series. As for when DS9 kicked into high gear, I would say it was around season 4 when the show really started to take off. That’s not sayind season 1-3 aren’t great either…
Tonight’s Lost was brilliant. Made me, again, so happy these guys are looking over the new Star Trek film. If any bit of the quality of mind bending sci-fi madness seen in tonight’s episode makes it into Trek, then we will be some happy fans. I never picked up on the All Good Things riff, but now that I think of it, yeah the two episodes were rather similar!!
Forgive me here, but what was the Lost easter egg in Cloverfield???
sorry about the typo. “second” not “seconf” …
First, the McCoy line, from “The Corbomite Maneuver”, was, “What am I, a doctor or a moon shuttle conductor? (pause as Kirk leaves Sickbay) If I jumped every time a light flashed around here I’d wind up talking to myself,”
As for DS9’s weaker ratings, compared to TNG, keep in mind that when TNG premiered, it had the one-hour syndicated drama market pretty much to itself, so naturally, it kicked ass.
By the time DS9 came along, it was a lot more crowded. Hercules, Xena, Babylon 5, and a whole bunch more that have come and gone without leaving much of a ripple, But even then, DS9 usually came in towards the top of the heap, if not Number One. And the serialized nature of the stories, especially as the show progressed, made a lot of viewers feel like they’d been left behind, so they never got on board in the first place.
As far as the quality of the writing goes, I think they actually surpassed TOS on a number of occasions, mainly because they could push the envelope a lot further than they could in the 60’s, and tackle stories head on instead of having to resort to clever little tricks like painting folks pink with purple polka dots to slip the message past the censors.
Voyager and Enterprise, on the other hand, were lucky if they could match TOS on its worst day.
My post didn’t appear over the course of four hours, so I’m going to assume the database just lost it. Fortunately, I recently started saving my posts until they appear. :)
#27 Tony - Re: The Scale
I think the number of people who have actually seen every single episode is vanishingly small. I consider myself a hardcore Trekkie, well-versed in every aspect of canon, non-canon, and behind the scenes work. I even run an audio drama. Yet -I- haven’t seen every episode. Neither has a single member of the fifteen-person Trek roleplaying game I run.
There’s a certain stereotype in the community of an “ideal Trekkie”, supposedly a fan who knows the behind-the-scenes story of every shot of every episode, who collects a ton of stuff, can quote the complete script of every episode backwards, owns a dozen uniforms, knows the production number of every episode of TOS, and owns every book, comic book, CD, or video game ever produced. I’ve never met such a person. I’ve met people who meet at least one or even several of those criteria, but I don’t see any evidence that any single person actually embodies it. Given the sheer volume of Star Trek, I don’t any single person -could-. It’s every bit as false a stereotype as the popular view of the Trekkie–the nerd who lives in his mother’s basement watching porn between Voyager reruns and has never kissed a girl. We -all- need to use Memory-Alpha from time to time, and those of us who don’t have the privilege of regularly hanging out with Daren Dochterman would certainly use him as a reference if we had the opportunity, too. And, really, what percentage of fandom has read more than a few dozen of the Trek books?
You, Tony, know your franchise backwards, forwards, and inside out, even if your recall of arbitrary facts like the planet on which Picard was captured in “Chain of Command” isn’t instantaneous (Celtris III, if you care). You know half the production staff and are intimately involved with the entire Supreme Court. You’ve seen every episode of every series, read a bunch of the books, and goodness knows what else you’ve done. Most importantly, you contribute to the Trekkie community with many hours of your own time, and, currently, because of the visibility and important TrekMovie has in reporting the news and communicating back to the producers, you are the most important living member of fandom. Last but not least, you knew enough to put two options for ENT on the finale poll. If that doesn’t make you the “ideal Trekkie”, I don’t know what does.
Of course, we could consider a Trekkie score of 10 to be the transwarp of on the Trek scale, a point of “infinite Trek grasp” which is unattainable in actual practice but a useful theoretical goal. This actually makes some sense because, as I argued above, it is impossible for any real human being to ever become the “ultimate Trekkie.”
In that case, you would only rate a 9.47, and head and shoulders among most people on this site.
As for D.L., if I read this page, I’d be scared, too. But we’re not exactly a cross-section of the population, or even of Trekdom. Or even of just online Trekdom, which varies from the vicious (StarTrek.com) to the pollyannaish (TrekUnited.com) to the lackadasical (FiveMinute.net) to the inexplicable (really, could someone explain to me why everyone at BravoFleet.com is a huge Voyager fan?). He’s not exactly seeing the big picture, and so he’s feeling humbler than he needs to be. He is welcome to his modesty, though.
That’s all. Hm. That post was too long. Sorry.
I think forgetting McCoy was just a slip, an oversight, something for the nitpickers to grumble about…
No, I’m not grumbling about things like that anymore. It’s a new day, a new interview. I’ going to put this slip in the back room of my memory where it will stick - forever.
…when they are all together — Scotty and Uhura and Spock and Kirk and Chekov and Sulu and Pike — that you go ‘wow’ This is what it is all about, the crew.
forgot somebody there.
105, just perfect dialogue/character writing. TOS was straight in there with the writing in the very first episodes, genius. ( and De’s performance of course) I smile every time I hear Maac-coy say that line in TCM.
#52
IIRC he said A-sexual
#28
great list
#30
i caught that too.
makes me think spock turns in kirk for cheating, kirk hates spock, by end of film, bamn their friends….. oh wait a sec that reminds me of that scene from 3 amigos :D
#33
i like nitpicking :D
#40
yes my fav
what am i? a doctor or a moon shuttle conductor?
if i jumped every time a light came on around here…..
#77
i always put the two together
now as to great trek eps
i would have to say ‘pale moonlight’
and finale goes to DS9, im sorry but tng’s just didnt work for me.
ent and voy finale can be forgoten.
and tos well. they sould have gotten another season at least, if they would have looked at the demo’s that year instaed of later, im we would have gotten a season 4. that would have put tos on air during the moon landings, a great step (no pun intended) forward for audiances to accept sc-fi and the possiblities. im sure treks numbers would have picked up at that point. can you say tos season 5? :D
I grew up in the Uk with re-runs of TOS ON BBC2 but when I went to high school in the late 80s all we could talk about was TNG. From when Q introduced the Borg to the fantastic finalle we were all in for the ride and what a ride it was.
And ‘ All Good Things…’ encompassed everything that was magnificent about TNG story telling.
I still now feel that tear swealing up in my eye as they played that final Poker game together and the ship went off into the stars.
Storytelling at its best, as is this forth Season of Lost which has had the hair standing up on the back of my neck these past few weeks.
If this new movie has a story like we know these guys can produce and that pays homeage to some of the best Trek storytelling, it will be perhaps one of the greatest Trek masterpieces of all time and giving it a Summer 2009 opening sits just fine with me!
So Pike is among them all, and not in his one light beepy chair?
#111
im sudenly reminded of futurama :)
I watched 7 seasons straight of TNG in first run just out of University, and by the time DS9 started, my “real life” sorta kicked in. I watched it all later on video, and it’s fine.
My only quibble was that it would have done better without the Bajoran religion featuring so prominently.
Also, the Defiant kicked-started them out of the usual “Season 1/2 doldrums” and into something far more interesting.
DS9 Episode “Trials & Tribbulations” is the best hour of television ever!
Even DS9 Haters should check it out.
Oh, and also Futurama episode “Where No Fan Has Gone Before” is easily TV’s best half-hour.
Just Saying..
I haven´t read all of what was said before but I totally agree with those who say that DS9 is probably the best Trek show ever. I never saw it when the show first aired because DS9 never made it primetime in Germany, as did Voyager. But I gave the show a second chance and watched it on DVD and really - it is damn good writing! Voyager and Enterprise felt much more … commercial.
So, based on this, McCoy is out. Hmmmm….
No, wait, I was reading the comments instead of the interview. Always a mistake.
Best forgotten McCoy quote, to Scotty in TVH: “Don’t bury yourself in the part!”
Unbelievably great episode of “Lost” last night. What fabulous storytellers work on this crew. . . can’t wait to see what they do with Trek.
This is off-topic, but I am seeing PK Dick imprints all over “Lost” lately - consciousness, reality-bending, time-travel. . . plus a ref to “Valis” last week. They’re up to somethin’.
What made “Trials and Tribble-ations” so great? The TOS episode it was based on….
Anthony is right about the ratings slipping (Can you say “Hello, Worf!”). DS9 took Trek into extended story arcs, and visited the mirror universe a few too many times. For Trekkers, the MU is like candy for a baby, and should not be mined too much. I enjoyed how Section 31 kind of crept into the whole oeuvre, as well.
#82—The last two seasons. Don’t expect a real “Trek” feeling to it, but the Dominion War does bring some good drama into the series and made it much more entertaining. The same with the “Section 31″ theme.
#119–Yes, you have to love DS9, “Trials And Tribble-ations” if you are at all a TOS fan. Great tribute.
#91—”Well, don’t look at me. It’s the tribbles who are breeding!”
If I tried to count all the great McCoy moments in TOS, I’d probably get a number somewhere in the mid-70’s!
#117–Absolutely! I’ll even give a nod to TUC—”I’d give real money if he’d shut up!”
……… Wow! I like this guy! Understandable, about not bein into DS9 and all, you either liked them or not. Kinda figured Orci was the bigger Trek fan somehow. Oh and yes, can’t wait!
51. rizzle - February 28, 2008
DS9s episode “Visitor” is the sole reason I got into Trek at all
Yo Rizzle™!!! “The Visitor” is da best Trek episode of dem all. Hands down. That’s the kind of thing that I am talking about. I like the way you think.
fo shizzle!!
=h=
I am so happy Lindelof is part of the Star Trek team.
Lost is probably the best tv show since DS9 & Babylon 5 ended. You can’t have enough Lost autors writing for Star Trek.
I hope they also will make the new Star Trek movie as complex and confusing as Lost, so that you really have to sit in the cinema taut until the very last second before you finally know how it ends and what the solution is.
The new Lost episode was great, once again. And really a bit like “All good things” with 2 instead of 3 time levels.
RE: DS9
First, I will say that DS9 did have some very good writing, and I liked the cast.
What didn’t really work for me was associating it with Star Trek. Now, I realize that the ST Universe is big… big enough for more than just starship adventures. But, honestly, that’s what ST is about for me… the TREK, to boldly go, to seek out new life-forms, etc. If one removed the ST association from DS9 you would have…… Babylon5-ish?
Recently, I watched a fan-made program called Star Trek: Aurora, a completely CGI project. A great deal of care has gone into the program; the story is decent, the graphics are decent. But, as others have commented, what exactly does this story have to do with Star Trek, other than associating it with that “world.”
Whenever I watched DS9, I often wondered if the show would have attracted an audience if it had no Trek references and was simply called “Deep Space Nine.”
Finally, I am not attempting to diminish anyone’s love for DS9, and, in fact, I watched most of the episodes during its run, and will still watch it in re-runs when I come across it, so I don’t think of myself as a DS9-hater. I suppose my preference for starship adventures has something to do with my desire to leave the earth…
124: There was a controversy a while back that DS9 was a direct ripoff of a pitch made to Paramount at the time to do a show on a space station which stood at the edge of a wormhole, which they rejected, and then re-tooled into DS9.
J. Michael Straczynski (sp?), who is a long-time Trek aficionado, made the pitch, then went ahead and created B5, which now, after several years, has its own acclaim and dedicated fanbase.
He also pitched a re-boot of Trek not long ago which I have not seen referenced for a while.
He was officially bitter for a while that the DS9 idea had been legally filched from him. The connections are closer than you may think. Anyone with more info, please chime in, because I am accessing old brain cells here.
#125—”He also pitched a re-boot of Trek not long ago which I have not seen referenced for a while.”
Interesting. Any more elaborative details?
#14
agreed on both.
oh and
Welshiieeeee
why is it every object we dont understand always called ‘a thing’ ?
ill never live this down, this vulcan is telling me how to operate.
Seems were centering on DS9, in the Uk were watching the re-runs on Virgin 1 and for me the best episode was ‘Far beyond the stars…’.
Once again this story has to be one of the all time greats. Avery Brooks acting and directing in this episode would be ocscar winning if this had been a movie.
All the classic Ds9 actors playing human parts in a part of American history that some don’t like to think about.
A truely inspired piece of work that sits right at the top with episodes of Trek such as ‘City on the edge of Forever’, ‘The Inner Light’, ‘ All Good Things…’, and another DS9 classic ‘ The Visitor’
Am I the only person in the world that actually like Q episodes in Voyager?
[…] All Good Things: The series finale of Star Trek The Next Generation features Captain Picard in three different timelines. He becomes unstuck in time, like Desmond and Billy Pilgrim. As he bounces back and forth, he becomes aware of a temporal anomaly in all three timelines. In essence, this anomaly is The Constant. Only when he identifies the constant and directly contacts it is he able to stay in one timeline, ignorant of his future. Also, Desmond’s trip to contact Daniel at Oxford is reminiscent of Picard’s trip to visit Data at Cambridge. Damon Lindelof confirmed that “All Good Things” was a big influence in writing “The Constant” here. […]
Sela gonna be in it, that Tasha Yar Reference from “All Good Things” is practically a Neon Sign post especially since they already reference “Yesterday’s Enterprise” an episode vital to Sela’s backstory and lets not forget Unification and her history with Ambassador Spock.
#131—I hope not, although I had forgotten about that weak Sela–Tosha Yar plot piece in TNG, “Unification”. That seemed to be a cheap way to get Denise back for an appearance on the show.
I hope they ignore that and use “Unification” only as a reference as to where Spock is last seen in the TNG-era.
There is much more dramatic “motive” material as to why Romulans would be out to get Spock and the Enterprise NCC-1701 within the TOS episode, “The Enterprise Incident”.
Think about it. If Nero is the illegitimate son of the Romulan Commander and the half human/ half Vulcan Spock, then imagine his feelings about how Spock seduced his mother and tricked her into falling into that trap, losing a cloaking device, and disgracing herself in the eyes of the Praetor and the Senate. Perhaps she briefly escapes execution, gives birth to Nero, and is eventually found–but takes her own life, leaving Nero with a huge axe to grind. He, with great cunning and ruthless single-mindedness to his objective, obtains the means to travel back in time and sets out on several attempts to alter history, and ultimately, has to confront his absentee father (Nimoy’s Spock)face-to-face!
Now THAT is the basis for a great revenge story (TWOK, FC, and Greco-Roman mythology meets Maury Povich! ), and this time it would involve Spock (instead of Kirk, which has been done to death) as the object of the villain’s hatred and desire for revenge.
I’m telling you, if this isn’t the plot—it should be!
Picard wasn’t picking fruit in ‘All Good Things’. He was tying vines. Oh God, this movie is doomed.
#133—Worry not, my friend. Lindelof is admittedly not as big a fan as Bob Orci, and he didn’t write the script—Orci and Kurtzman did.
It’s interesting that the writers rate “All Good Things…” so highly as a series finale. I seem to recall the critical review at the time was that the episide was just okay as a finale, but not great.
I really like “All Good Things…”, but I guess it’s hard to create a finale that tops other episodes when the series has so many stories that are just flat-out brilliant. But I can’t think of a more fitting and emotional ending than the scene at the card table.
#135—Lindelof is the producer, not the writer. Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman are the writers/executive producers.
That finale is ok, although I can’t say I would put it anywhere near the category of all-time best telvision series finales.
What “brilliant” stories, other than “Yesterday’s Enterprise”, are you referring to in TNG? Admittedly, I am not much of a TNG fan, but maybe you can give me a reason to rewatch more than just that one episode. I would say that “YE” is one of the best Trek stories, period—in all 5 series. But I just can’t think of any others which I would classify as “brilliant” during TNG’s run.
Closettrekker, et al: please link JMS reboot of Trek:
http://bztv.typepad.com/newsviews/2006/06/spaced_out_star.html
There is a file in there which is his “pitch.”
#137—Thanks, AJ!
I was not a big fan of DS9, but the episode “Duet” features what is IMHO the finest performance anyone ever gave on Star Trek - Harris Yulin as Marritza.
#139–it’s a pretty crowded field if you take all the shows together, but as far as DS9 is concerned, at least–agreed. That was one helluva bit of stagecraft that Yulin should be very proud of, goofy alien makeup and all.
#119 “What made “Trials and Tribble-ations” so great? The TOS episode it was based on….”
That was a big part of it. The DS9 Characters out of their element, the effects and the story also helped. Everything was awesome.
#119& #141 “What made “Trials and Tribble-ations” so great?
Surely it was Jadzia in that mini skirt
#142
Amen
Re: #129. Valmorg
“Am I the only person in the world that actually likes Q episodes in Voyager?”
Nope. I like them too. It took me a while to warm up to Q (in TNG) but I did once they made the character less obnoxious. I especially loved the Voyager episode where Q and his son visit Captain Janeway then Q leaves him behind and he creates chaos.
What’s that line…
“If I’ve told you once, I’ve told you a thousand times - - DON’T PROVOKE THE BORG!!!”
And “Aunt Kathy”? Priceless. That was a great story. I also happen to love the character “Icheb” so having them both in the same episode was great. Love the interaction between them.
You are not alone (although I know it may feel like you are…).
kg
“Trials” pays a fanboy tribute to one of the most famous TV eps of all time, and does so with reverence down to the microscopic details. My jaw dropped when the CGI Big E first appeared, and I was reeled in for the whole show, drooling all the way.
Hey Anthony, thanks for talking to Damon, great scoop!
Damon, I’ll see you at the premiere in Berlin and will bring some Weizenbier!
A producer who picks TNG as his favorite Trek & then can’t remember in his favorite episode Picard was in his vinyard, not picking fruit assure IMHO that he isn’t qualified to be on this production. A Kirk era producer should be a student of Gene Coon & DC Fontana, not Rick ‘I hate TOS’ Berman.
149. I Love My Moogie - March 1, 2008
A producer who picks TNG as his favorite Trek & then can’t remember in his favorite episode Picard was in his vinyard, not picking fruit assure IMHO that he isn’t qualified to be on this production. A Kirk era producer should be a student of Gene Coon & DC Fontana, not Rick ‘I hate TOS’ Berman.
You’ll get over it.
Yeah, don’t get picky about not knowing what fruit he picked!
Just remember, you can pick a fruit and you can pick your nose, but you CAN’T pick apart a Star Trek episode!!
#151: “Just remember, you can pick a fruit and you can pick your nose, but you CAN’T pick apart a Star Trek episode!!”
Unless it’s TNG’s Shades of Gray
Well, ok……………I’ll give you THAT one……………
#138, incorporating those facts would have gotten in the way of my joke. It was a swipe at the nit-picking nature of this board. oh well, wasn’t that funny anyway. :)
Which one was “Shades of Gray”? I haven’t got them all memorized yet.
kg
[…] now’s the time to do so. If nothing else then to not be spoiled here. Lost season 4 episode 5 is a re-interpretation of Star Trek’s “All Good Things” episode. That means it’s full of awesome. […]