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Takei Dishes On Shatner April 3, 2008

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Shatner,TOS , trackback

George Takei appeared on Conan O’Brien last night and immediately Conan asked George about his ‘hate’ for William Shatner and how he got a chance to roast bill on Comedy Central. Takei talked about how Shatner never got his name right and how he thought Bill’s acting “sucked.” The original Sulu also talked about the Stern show, dubbing Godzilla, and appearing on a new talent show…check out video below.

Shat Roast
Takei started off talking about the Shatner Roast, below are clips from Takei’s segment…and my favorite part…the drinking of the Tranya.

More clips at Comedy Central.

The uncensored DVD is available at Amazon

Takei Country
George was on Conan to promote his upcoming appearance on the CBS show Secret Talents of the Stars…and if you missed it in last week’s Celeb Watch…here is the promo for that…watch Takei sing if you dare.

Comments

1. Colin Campbell - April 3, 2008

I hope they got him to do another edition of “Takei — SECRETS…”

2. Mickey MET - April 3, 2008

>>Takei talked about how Shatner never got his name right. . . . <<

What’s so hard about ‘George’?

3. Wrath - April 3, 2008

Yeah we get it. Shatner was a dickhead. Not really important. He was a great leading man and in large part his acting talent, such that it is, helped make Trek iconic.

4. Wrath - April 3, 2008

That roast was genius. The swear-tastic one is so close to the bone. Love it.

5. dannyboy1 - April 3, 2008

Wah…wah…”He never got my name right”… The complaints from the jealous supporting cast remain as pithy and shallow as always. Just because between them they couldn’t muster even 1% of the charisma Bill carries in his little finger doesn’t justify decades of whining and character assassination. They really are fairly pathetic.

6. Iowagirl - April 3, 2008

While some have a career, others still have their jealousy.

7. noirgwio - April 3, 2008

Re: 6… Bill not only had charisma, he had CHAIR-isma, as in the center seat!

8. AJ - April 3, 2008

Yeah, it’s pathetic how so many people can hate this one guy.

Personally, Bill Shatner probably is as bad as they say, but he wasn’t hired to be a nice guy. He was hired to act. And his Kirk is a legend.

Takei doesn’t have much to be jealous of. I bet you he’s doing just fine.

9. noirgwio - April 3, 2008

Um, apparently I meant Re: 5…

10. Battletrek - April 3, 2008

Takei makes Shatner look humble.

11. AaronA - April 3, 2008

So William Shatner was a leading man and Kirk was the charismatic central focus of TOS – get over it, George!

Your campaigns for an “Excelsior” show makes it obvious you were gunning to be the same.

I really don’t believe Trek would have been around today without Shatner as the main star. His ego played a huge part in that.

Still, I love ‘em all!

12. Harry Ballz - April 3, 2008

Takei criticizing Shatner’s acting style is like a turd telling an air freshener that it stinks!

I would point out that Takei’s acting is wooden, but that would criticize trees everywhere!

13. Iowagirl - April 3, 2008

#8
- And his Kirk is a legend. -

Exactly. And in the end, that’s all that counts.

14. Chris Pike - April 3, 2008

but, hey he IS belly achingly funny! Surely the most entertaining of the orignal cast as himself….the Shat being a close runner up, and that may be something to do with the exaggerated rift between them, they play it up a tad!?

15. I Love My Moogie - April 3, 2008

OH MY!!! George, give it a REST already! Howard Stern gave you a new career, be grateful & stop the all too public sour grapes against our beloved Shat.

16. Batts - April 3, 2008

This guy Takei is funny! But I said WTF! This guy just kissed another man. What is this?? I almost dropped my coffee.. Then started licking his lips. I am sorry, I am not trying to get personal, but I can never LOOK at Sulu the same again. And yes, I know he is openly homosexual.

Love the part when he says its Takei as in toupee or 2 GAY! Yikes. LOL!!

#12 Harry Ballz
I like those lines.

17. focuspuller - April 3, 2008

2 things. 1. If Takei didn’t “hate” Shatner he would have little, if anything, to talk about. 2. Takei’s ego is at least as big as Shatner’s, the difference is Shatner has more talent and charisma.

18. Batts - April 3, 2008

Shatner’s look on his face is priceless when he saw the kiss!! I dont believe this BS! But in all seriousness, I wondered was Takei’s sexuality ever really known back in the 60′s. If so, were there others of the cast?? Were they all sworn to secrecy?? I still admire his Sulu character and even Takei’s sensitivity towards ethnicity.

But that Comic Roast, Whoa!! He must have been drinking Tranya. LOL!
Now what would happen if Shatner ROASTED George on TV?? (Hint: Phaser Rifle) LOL!!

19. TonyD - April 3, 2008

Takei is the the last person to be calling anyone else a bad actor. Here’s a newsflash for George: Shanter, Nimoy and Kelley were the stars of TOS Trek; he was just a supporting actor who’s name didn’t even appear until the closing credits.

Takei’s sour grapes against Shatner got old years ago, and all his appearances on other shows like Stern and the Shatner roast have turned him into an embarrassing buffoon. He’s become a walking joke who is ridiculed by the very people who’s shows he appears on. Too bad he’s too blind and egotistical to realize it. It’s really pathetic to see him humiliating himself like this. I’ve lost all respect for the man and shudder to think of the depths he’ll sink to in the years to come just to stay in the limelight a little longer.

20. Stanky McFibberich - April 3, 2008

As someone said above, “Pathetic.”
I could go on, but most of it has also been said.

21. Fansince9 - April 3, 2008

I know Mr. Takei may have a few issues with Shatner in one way or another, but it takes the better person to “make like a duck” and let it roll off of your back. Besides, if it weren’t for Shatner’s popularity in Star Trek, George Takei’s acting career may have never seen any light of day past the 1960′s. Star Trek is what made George Takei (Sulu) a household name, even if it was cancelled.

What Mr. Takei said and did was in very poor taste, and I’m saddened to see he has such little class.

22. D - April 3, 2008

You know, I think it’s funny that Takei continuously talks about how much he hates Shatner, yet, I remember in a interview right before the roast, him talking about how he and Shatner had “buried the hatchet”. Shatner made similar statements.

What happen, did he bury so he could roast Shatner, then run back out and dig it up again?

23. trekgeezer - April 3, 2008

Actually George’s opinions of Shatner pale in comparison to what Walter Koenig and James Doohan thought of him. James Doohan refused to even talk to Shatner when he was writing his Star Trek Memories books. I think Shatner and Koenig finally came to an understanding.

This always puzzled me because the two of them got way more screen time and lines than the rest of the supporting cast.

Most of the cast will claim their adoration for Leonard Nimoy who says Shatner is his best friend.

24. Paul B. - April 3, 2008

Having watched these clips, I am now officially disgusted by Takei. I can take crude humor as much as anyone, but this is just disgusting. I like plenty of vulgar comedy (“Blazing Saddles” anyone?), but Takei seems to think being vulgar IS comedy. Now I see why he’s on the Howard Stern show: like minds…

The more I see and hear of Shatner these days, the more I like and respect him (except his whining about the new Trek film–get a life, Bill!).

But the more I see and hear of Takei, the less I like him.

25. Dif - April 3, 2008

# 19 I completely agree.

I’m guessing its his last name that Shatner never got right – he’s always seemed rather anal about it as I cannot remember an interview or article with him that he *doesn’t* whine and moan about how people don’t pronounce it correctly and say how ‘easy’ it is to pronounce. Yeah. Whatever.

Conan is clearly uncomfortable with Takei’s attitude. I thought it was great that he questioned him about the hand sign mess, too.

I’ve never seen him do anything where I thought he was a good actor. Outside of ST, Takei has no “Intruder” he has no great “Twilight Zone” or “Alfred Hitchcock Presents” episodes.

Takei’s acting is largely unmemorable – he’s attached to the legend of shows, not his own. Unlike Nimoy, Shatner, Kelley, Stewart, and probably a few others I’m forgetting…Takei is known for being Sulu, not known for being a great talent. He’s on Heroes and people think its cool BECAUSE HE WAS ON ST. Not because Takei is some awesome actor.

Takei is like those idiots who still whine and moan about high school 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, 50 years on. He’s had how many years to try and make an impression on people with his own name…and the only way he’s done it is by hanging onto Sulu…oh, and finally going, “Btw, I’m gay!”

I honestly think he only ‘came out’ because Enterprise had been cancelled and there was talk of ST being ‘dead’…at least for a good chunk of years. Now he’s back to pimping the Sulu thing with the movie coming out. Remember, he ‘came out’ in October 2005…shortly after “Oh, man! There’s no ST on the new schedule, what do I do?!”

I like the actors who are cool with the whole fandom thing, but at this point, I’m thinking Takei cool with it for ego reasons, not because he respects his work/the series/or the fans.

I’d say he needs to “move on already”, but he’s had 39 years already to try to do that…doesn’t seem to have worked.

26. star trackie - April 3, 2008

….funny how these supporting cast members often forget that their names were in the closing credits…if they were there at all.

Having said that, I applaud George for taking a page from Shatner’s playbook. He’s certainly learned how to take just about any paying gig and use the media coverage to stay in the public light.

27. Hat Rick - April 3, 2008

There are, I think, better ways to publicize one’s career than to resort to vulgar humor. I haven’t watched the clips, and, given what has been described of them, I don’t intend to.

On the other hand, O’Brien probably appreciated the hell out of it; his core audience appreciates irreverence, and the more of it, the better.

28. 1701 over Gotham City - April 3, 2008

I’ve about had it with Shatner bashing… I’ve listened to it for years. Maybe he is arogant, or pompous, or stubborn, doesn’t matter… the Emmy’s say he’s a great actor, and I agree.

You either get Shatner, or you don’t.

I still think a lot of the hate stories came from a particulary bitter source, one that played an engineer. His hatred was infamous, and it apparently spread farther than Shatner. Making a career out of complaining about how a person spoke to you once 40 years ago is sad. I like Takei a LOT, but really, aren’t there better things to do?

Feh. Whatev. Shatner rocks.

29. Trek Nerd Central - April 3, 2008

If you go back and look at earlier interviews with the original cast (in the 70s, I’m thinking), they all had *much* nicer things to say about Shatner. Very generous and admiring remarks, in fact. It wasn’t until the late ’80s or early ’90s or so that they all collectively decided he was a bodily orifice of some kind. Sort of a mass hypnosis.

30. Hat Rick - April 3, 2008

For all the bad things that were said about Bill Shatner, I think that few if any would deny that he has brought credit to Trek if only because of his position. This is despite the fact that he once participated in an SNL parody of Trek fans and may even have shown a bit of frustration in that respect. Thus, we can either focus on the positive or the negative.

I, too, am tired of Shatner-bashing and wish that more people in the public eye and positions of influence would simply look at the up side of things. An optimistic and supportive view of the world is what Trek is supposed to promote, and frankly there’s too little of it in the world already for me to contrbute to negativism about Shatner, or any other Trek cast member, in any way, shape, or form. Absent sufficient reason, of course.

31. Captain Otter - April 3, 2008

I get the feeling that have of Mr. Takei’s hate of the Shat is half real and half a bit to get interviews. In that regard, it isn’t just sour grapes, it is a smart way of getting publicity.

For instance, CBS’s crappy celebrity talent show is hard to promote. Most of the has-beens the will have one will have next to zero appeal. But if you roll our Mr. Takei, Trekkies and Trek haters alike will tune in because both camps, for what ever reason, cannot get enough. So when he goes on, playing up this “I hate Bill” bit makes for a good interview which, in turn, means the difference between this show getting promoted on Late Night with Connan O’Brian or getting a 30-second mention on Good Morning Nebraska.

As far as the crudeness of the roast, don’t you imagine his buddies on Howard Stern’s crew helped him write some of that? Besides, most roasts are nothing but foul mouthed bashing.

At least Dana Jacobson wasn’t there.

32. Diabolik - April 3, 2008

I watched “Galaxy Quest” again the other day and realised just how on target it is about practically everything Trek. That is one under-rated movie. And it nails the way the hero treats the secondary actors.

But for George to keep harping makes him look bad. He should show some grace and he’d come off better.

33. thomoz - April 3, 2008

Shatner admitted (in his Trek and Trek Movie Memories books) that his behaviour toward other cast members was insensitive, and he corroborated their accusations that he would plead with the director to “steal” other cast members’ lines from the scripts.

None of this excuses George’s inability to lest the past be the past.

George has appeared in several movies, he grew up in an internment camp and has held public office as an elected official. He has nothing to be embarrassed about (other than crude behaviour on Howard Stern).

34. newman - April 3, 2008

Comedy Central clips not working…probly can’t access them cuz I’m in Canada. Sure, you guys will send us your acid rain and your fast food restaurants, but do I get the privilege to see your comedy clips? nooooooo. We demand you return Shatner, Pamela, Jim Carrey, and all our NHL players this instant!

35. Paul B. - April 3, 2008

#32 – I agree that Takei should “show some grace,” and that’s what I used to like about him. Along with Nimoy and Nichols, Takei seemed to be a smart, classy, graceful guy in the way he spoke and acted. Now he’s just a foul-mouthed hater with a chip on his shoulder.

And yes, Galaxy Quest is underrated. I like it more every single time I see it!

#31 – I think you’re right, Takei’s playing up the Shat-hate to get attention. I’m sure it’s real, but it’s exaggerated. As for the foul-mouthed roast/bashing, you’re right, roasts are usually vulgar, but Takei went beyond. By the time he got to the line about Farrah, I was glad he never got a “Captain Sulu” show after all. It wasn’t Shat-bashing, it was high-school level “crotch humor” at its worst.

Still, Shatner gets the last laugh: after all, he’s the one they were roasting, not the bit-player Takei. Still, after the smoke clears, I still think Sulu is one of the coolest Trek characters ever.

36. StarTrekkie - April 3, 2008

The whole idea of the Shatner roast was pathetically sad in my opinion. The idea is to give everyone license to be hateful and mean, but it’s ok because it’s the shatner roast.

The only good part about that show was Clint Howard and his Tranya

37. FREAKAZOID - April 3, 2008

I would love see if Takei can pronounce my last name! EVERYBODY gets it wrong the first time. In fact I always make people say my last name just to hear what they come up with.

One time when I was in college I mispronounced some guy’s last name and he got all offended and in my face about it. I took out my school ID and asked him to say my name. He couldn’t. He mellowed.

38. rj@yahoo.com - April 3, 2008

I’m not convinced Takei hates Shatner.

I think it’s all just a cheap attention getting ploy.

39. Sebastian - April 3, 2008

Ironically, Takei’s best performance as Sulu came decades after TOS wrapped. In the New Voyages/Phase II episode, “World Enough and Time.” As for the bad feelings between Takei and Shatner, there may have been some legitimacy to that whole thing early on, but now it’s just to generate cheap laughs and ratings for Howard Stern. Rise above it, it’s petty. Not to mention ancient history.

40. David L - April 3, 2008

Takei is showing absolutely no class. I have had people in my past who were rude, or nasty to me. I do not, years later, look to bash them. Sometimes you have to be the bigger man. I guess that’s not part of George

41. justcorbly - April 3, 2008

I gotta say I don’t care about maybe real, maybe not, petty feuds between actors.

But, I’ve also gotta say that when I watch TOS reruns these days, I find Kirk to be a pretty insufferable guy. Not charismatic, not inspirational. Just hammy and hamfisted. And loud. And histrionic.

Shatner was much easier to take in the movies, but by then I assume he was playing “Shatner”, as he has ever since.

42. Batts - April 3, 2008

This is really turning my damn stomach! Shatner looks shocked! I thought Takei had a measure of class, but this homo overtones is sick!! IMO Keep what you do in YOUR closet, cupcake!! Him giving Nichelle herpes from the kiss joke! They are looking at George in disbelief!! I cant believe he’s going there??

I think Shat should call Nimoy and they re-enact the bridge scene from “Naked Time” and drop George on his ass!! Shatner is the MAN after all of these years and yes I agree that Star Trek probably would not have been where it is if he was not cast as Kirk. But, this in NO WAY downplays Nimoy, No way in HELL! His Spock was shining brighter than Kirk and that bothered old Billy Boy.

43. AJ - April 3, 2008

I’ve heard Takei is a class act in person. The Shatner hatred is such a Hollywood legend, he was just taking the piss.

Shatner as Kirk IS legend, and all the impressionists’ love him for his amazing performance (Kevin Pollack, Jim Carrey), and the animated spoofs (Family Guy comes to mind) are over the top.

But he wouldn’t be spoofed so often if he weren’t so memorable and so good. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

I hold nothing against Takei when he gets ribald and silly. Shatner can handle it.

44. ensign joe - April 3, 2008

Man George just needs to get a reality check… No Bill really is a jerk!

Ugh… Really? … Really?

45. Canadianknight - April 3, 2008

I couldn’t watch the whole roast. I admit that Takei’s segment made me laugh… but this (on the whole) wasn’t a roast, so much as a crude, vulgar lambasting. A celebrity roast should be clever and fun … full of double-entendre and witty humour. Not rude & crude. In short, it was a bucket-o-fail…

46. star trackie - April 3, 2008

#41 “But, I’ve also gotta say that when I watch TOS reruns these days, I find Kirk to be a pretty insufferable guy. Not charismatic, not inspirational. Just hammy and hamfisted. And loud. And histrionic.”

Shatner really is quite good in the role … what rotten luck, you seem to be catching Turnabout Intruder everytime you tune it in.

47. DaveM - April 3, 2008

Oh good lord, I’ve never seen so many nasty comments in one thread.

There is not one person in the cast of Trek who can be called an angel. They have all said or behaved badly at some point during their careers. Shantner comfirmed he did some nasty things during his tenure as Kirk. Actors who have line stolen away from them consistently have a right to be upset and bitter when it happens week after week during the run of a show.

So they are not politically correct by today’s standards. 20 years ago any of these comments would be a non-issue and today everyone has to get on here and pst there two-cents about Takei said this… Doohan said that… Koening related such and such.

Does it really make that much difference to any of us? We are not actors. We did not have to go through what they did and I’m pretty sure that all the accounts we know forward and backward are still highly watered down versions of what actually happened to all of them due to some level of face-saving on all fronts.

Whether the star or a supporting actor… everyone deserves some level of respect in this business. The star stealing dialogue from a supporting actor is not respectful, its ego. I’m the star… I get more words or lines of dialogue then anyone else or I’m leaving. Well isn’t that the adult attitude.

People wonder why things ar being said now about all this poor behaviour… the world has changed. The news is full or reporting and details we would have never seen in the 60s. Lousy attitudes on the set of a TV series were just not reported to keep from tarnishing someone’s image. It can come out now because its now the new norm.

With all the venom, in this thread, I’m quite surprised Anothony hasn’t shut it down.

48. Batts - April 3, 2008

My posts at #16,18,42

I just watch that Conan clip and Conan’s look at George’s remark about if his partner can suck as hard as Bill’s acting, we might have something!! C’mon, I bet if Nimoy was watching that he would have puked in disgust!!

I am trying to keep it clean here, But Takei’s envy for Shatner kind of tells me one thing!!………..Yea, that’s it!! He probably wanted Bill to use his phaser rifle on him.

49. Jorg Sacul - April 3, 2008

You guys are spoiled on the Don Rickles-era roasts of yore. In reality, the roast was just that– a vulgar, purile verbal assault on the man of the hour.

Not justifying, just testifying…

I loved the Balok part. Genius!

50. AJ - April 3, 2008

41/46:

I cannot imagine my opinion of TOS performances changing in reruns.

To a certain extent, I still watch through the eyes of the 6-year-old I was when I first watched and became enthralled. And as someone once said, “I’m not a drama critic.”

I find Shatner in the first season to be perfect, second, almost as good, and third, doing his best with the material, and slightly hammy. But Kirk is Kirk is Kirk is Shatner, and in those 79 episodes, he can do no wrong..

51. Brian - April 3, 2008

Man….I’m really tired of the Shatner-bashing from the supporting cast, and I’m surprised it’s still coming from George. I fully understand that Bill has been(and likely still is) a self-absorbed ass, but still talking about it 40 years later kinda wears on me. Move on. And George really shouldn’t be criticizing anyone else’s acting. He’s not exactly one of our great thespians. The “My God!” line reading in STVI makes people laugh out loud.

52. Batts - April 3, 2008

Alright I apologize for my venom. I dont want to be banned from the site. I got a little carried away. I will just keep my comments simple and to the point and try not to mix in personal beliefs as far as someone’s life choices are concerned.

Sorry my fellow trekkies:)

53. Hat Rick - April 3, 2008

Yeah, roasts can be pretty cruel. I remember the Rickles era, but only vaguely. If the Comedy Central roast is where the crude humor came from (and as I said, I haven’ seen the clips), then I guess I’m not surprised.

Also, I agree that Bill Shatner can take it. He’s probably one of the two richest guys of all the Trek cast members, of any series (along with Leonard Nimoy). He’s probably laughing all the way to the bank (and good for him, too!).

54. Batts - April 3, 2008

Hey! what happen to the ladies of TrekMovie.com?? Denise de Arman, the Vulcanista and Katie G? I would appreciate reading their comments.

55. James R. Kirk - April 3, 2008

Nimoy’s intro to the roast was pretty good. He really didn’t bother hiding the “this is beneath me to bash you” feelings.

56. Teleportation Girl - April 3, 2008

some of us ladies read here but don’t comment. :)

57. Cervantes - April 3, 2008

I don’t let real-world personalities in actors or actressess distract me from enjoying the ‘characterizations’ that they portray on T.V. Shows or Movies…I just ignore all that, it’s easier. Although Tom Cruise does make it a little difficult at times. :)

Off topic –

Here’s a little item on Star Trek’s newest composer Michael Giacchino’s excellent ‘Cloverfield’ end titles ‘overture’ which a lot of moviegoers probably missed hearing. It was epic and great.

58. Andy Patterson - April 3, 2008

3.

Exactly what I’ve always said.

People say things about Stan Lee too. He and the Marvel comics of those days are still great to me.

59. hitch1969© - April 3, 2008

I doubt that the animosity is anything more than schtick these days. Ironically, I was thinking about this last night after listening to George on the Howard Stern show. In looking back, was there anything truly hostile that Shatner did to him? No.

Look, Shatner never outed the guy. Takei’s main complaint with Shatner the person was that he was duplicitous, hogging screen time from the other actors while putting on a pretendsy “George, baby, how have you been?”. I think was the quote.

Takei is a pretty classy guy and I am just tickled every time he does a week with Howard. I like that he doesnt seem to take himself too seriously while maintaining an aire of respectability and decorum. He answers questions from Howard and the crew about his sexuality honestly, even when they are goofing on it. He seems to get the bigger picture about what Howard does when others get lost on semantics. It’s good that he felt ready to come out a few years ago and where his career has gone in relation to that.

I’m pretty sure that when he’s on Conan promoting his singing thing, of course the legend of the Shatbashing is a familiar and accessable topic. I think that’s all we’re seeing here.

=h=

60. Cervantes - April 3, 2008

Mmmm, it would have helped if I’d included the link…

Here it is – http://www.aintitcool.com/node/36217

61. US Taxpayer Dude - April 3, 2008

Takei: rhymes with Tacky.

62. Dom - April 3, 2008

I think the former SUPPORTING cast of TOS looked at TNG and its successors, which were build on the 80s ensemble show model and got jealous. They saw TNG whole episodes devoted to Beverley Crusher, Wesley Crusher, Deanna Troi, Geordi LaForge and so and an went: ‘Wah! Why couldn’t I have had that?’

Simply put, TOS had three main characters and a lesser group who added colour (in every sense!) and detail to the Trek universe. That’s how TOS was structured, way before the ensemble structure hit sci-fi TV. TOS was simply never intended to be an ensemble show.

Quite frankly, for me, Worf-, Alexander-, Deanna-, Geordi-, Wesley-, and Beverley-centric stories bored me to tears. None of them were particularly exciting characters and would have served the show better, had they stayed in the background. IMO, the only characters beyond Jean-Luc, Will and Data that could comfortably carry a whole episode were Guinan and Ro Laren.

What saddens me about the former TOS supporting cast and their vitriol is that is has soured some aspects of watching the original Star Trek. Ironically, for all their complaints about lack of lines and not big enough roles, each and every character was memorable: more so, IMO, than any in most subsequent Treks.

I can name every major TOS character off the top of my head. I’d have to think twice before listing characters in the spin-off shows!

63. crazybeach - April 3, 2008

Coupla quatloos’ worth…
I saw the Comedy Central Roast of Shat the night it aired, and it, indeed, was nothing but a bunch of foul-mouthed, stand-up comedians (term “comedians” used VERY loosely) who were only there “roasting” The Shat because they couldn’t seem to get any other gigs that night. Not one of them had or implied that they had, any connection to Shatner whatsoever. I mean, serious, Lisa Lampanelli? She doesn’t know Bill from shinola.

Back in the day, Roasts were like what has been mentioned above. Witty and full of double-entendres and above all, all in good-natured fun. You oculd see that they Rosters had love and affection for the Roastee, or they would have bothered to show up.

This was not any of that, folks. It was a complete waste of time.
The idiots roasting Shatner were only there because some people, famous and non-famous alike, will do anything to be on TV.

George continuing to complain about The Shat 40-plus years on is a complete waste of our time, his time, and the media’s time, too. Though, I must admit, James Doohan’s (GRHS) hatred of Shatner still bugs me to this day. He never once publicly said what it was (or what several its) that Shatner did to tick him off so. I saw him at a con once and he refused to mention it. Strange.
At least Koenig and NIchols have said, publicly, that, yes, Shatner was and is an @$$hole, but that they’ve gotten over it and moved on.
George, take the advice of your friends and (former) co-stars.
Move on…

64. lodownX - April 3, 2008

Thanks for including the Conan clip.. missed it last night.
I’ve been listening to Howard all this week and George is great! The Shatner rant is all for jokes… Although there were sour grapes – That hatchet was buried a long time ago.

65. Jon C - April 3, 2008

Tip Trekmovie; http://www.autoblog.com says Leonard Nimoy will appear with other celebrities in new Volkswagen TV ads.
I counldn’t get the ‘Tips’ e-mail to work for me.

66. justcorbly - April 3, 2008

#50:

A lot of TV from 40 years ago doesn’t wear well today. Sometimes I just wanna tell Kirk to go off and meditate somewhere, please. Or check in for ego-reduction surgery.

Sure, he’s an iconic character. But the person I am now finds him a lot more annoying and less believable than the person I was then.

67. Quatlo - April 3, 2008

As always, Tacky, George.

68. Norm! - April 3, 2008

US Taxpayer Dude: “Takei: rhymes with Tacky”

Dang, you beat me to it. Takei: pronounced TAC-KY

As a gay guy who is enjoys lewd humor, I thought Takei’s suck-as-hard-as-my-partner comment was tacky, offensive, embarrassing, and worse, unfunny. Even Conan seemed to be a little shocked.

I’m sure Shatner was a jerk, but it excuses Takei’s juvenile comment.

69. Teleportation Girl - April 3, 2008

hey cervantes, i really also like his score for Lost. I must have missed paying attention to the soundtrack in Cloverfield, however, as i was so nauseous from watching the movie.

70. CmdrR - April 3, 2008

Dom — ditto.

Move along George. It’s a wonderful life, and you still make more money than most of the people watching Trek.

71. NC Trek Fan - April 3, 2008

Love the Balock clip. Always wanted to know what happen to that guy.

72. bono luthor - April 3, 2008

George Tacky really disturbs me.

I find him very creepy and vaguely sinister.

Can you imagine how totally awful an Excelsior show would have been?

Urgh!

73. Spoctor McKirk - April 3, 2008

I’d much rather meet George Takei on the street than Shatner. I’m not a convention goer so I don’t speak from experience but I’m sure George would be gracious, and Shatner would probably say hello like a politician in a crowd of supporters…you just wouldn’t show up on his radar.

However, if I were casting a movie I’d pick Shatner over Takei in a nanosecond. That man……can act!

74. Dennis Bailey - April 3, 2008

#27:” There are, I think, better ways to publicize one’s career than to resort to vulgar humor. ”

True; Shatner shouldn’t have agreed to be roasted. :lol:

75. Cervantes - April 3, 2008

#69 Teleportation Girl

Yeah, I think a lot of people would have missed his music over the end credits. I only stayed to listen myself, as it had been raved over by someone in a link I came across before I went to see it. Glad I did. I am anticipating that his work will be one of the upcoming Movie’s better qualities. :)

By the way, I had already posted a comment to you at the bottom of the ‘Ellan of Troyius’ video and screenshots ‘thread’ several back.

76. AJ - April 3, 2008

71:

“That guy” is Clint Howard, brother of Ron Howard, the big director and former Richie on “Happy Days.”

77. I love the new Star Trek - April 3, 2008

What do you expect him to talk about on a late night show? How he loves everyone except for The Shat?

Honestly, I thought it was a funny segment on Conan.

78. SB - April 3, 2008

Heaven forbid that anyone should ever say anything the least bit negative about the great Captain Kirk.

Particularly not people who worked closely with him for years. I mean, how could they possibly know better than fans, right?

79. Nathan - April 3, 2008

Takei has always struck me as a bit full of himself…Shatner was too, but at least he’s finally gotten over himself… unlike Takei, apparently. I have nothing against him personally, but from what I’ve seen and heard of the guy, it would seem he needs to deflate his ego several sizes… or risk a blowout.

It’s kind of sad, really; his classless and vulgar comments have made him my least favorite of the TOS cast members, even though his TOS character was one of the greatest (pistol fights? Sword fights? Rock on!)…

80. ensign joe - April 3, 2008

All you cloverfield ROAR! fans out there..

here is the youtube link again ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4p3rM9jOdE

off topic for sure sooooo I wonder how George Takei has seen cloverfield :P

This guy is gonna rock the trek soundtrack yo..

81. runner - April 3, 2008

For god’s sake, can George Takei get any more sad or pathetic. This guy who was pretty much window dressing on the Star Trek show (and I’m sorry but I don’t think that was Shatner’s fault – the fact they couldn’t even be bothered to give Sulu a first name says it all) waits until all the potential opportunities for the crew to be together on TV or movies are gone. Then when the gravy train ain’t rolling anymore, he and some of the others decide to lay into Shatner with their books, TV appearences, or any opportunity they could get to be seen and heard. Even now, after he’s finally managed somehow to attain some pseudo-celebrity status in recent years, he still publicly rips on Shatner.

Maybe if he or one of them or all of them had the cajones to confront Shatner at that time and tell him how they felt, it would have been better. Or worse, perhaps. the point is, they should have stood up for themselves if they felt slighted but they didn’t and it’s turned into forty years of unrelenting pent-up hostility. Hey George, maybe the reason Shatner never bothered with you or gets your name wrong constantly is simply because he just doesn’t like you. After listening to the way you carp on, I can see why that may be so.

It’s funny to hear him rip on Shatner’s acting for two reasons: One, Takei is an even worse actor with even worse delivery and two, I have seen and read comments from him where he said he felt Shatner was a good actor. The guy is shameless and he really ought to shut up and thank Shatner for helping to keep the Star Trek train moving all these years.

82. Diabolik - April 3, 2008

Takei is full of himself.. but a good laxative would take care of that!

83. Desertrat - April 3, 2008

Some appear on internet shows and some appear on emmy winning shows.

Guess who?

84. SPB - April 3, 2008

SHATNER’S ACTING “SUCKED…?”

Shatner has an Emmy. Takei doesn’t. The end.

85. jon1701 - April 3, 2008

Shatner may be many things, but I doubt he “hates” the others the way they hate him. I don’t like to see Takei like this. I’ve never heard Shatner say a bad word about the other members of the cast.

Ok, so maybe he was inconsiderate, maybe he did nick their lines, he was the star for crying out loud. Is he the ONLY star in Hollywood that can be arrogant and self centred?

There’s just no call for this.

86. Alexander - April 3, 2008

Howard Stern has turned Takei into big mouth fool.

87. ensign joe - April 3, 2008

Ugh its just showbiz people..

or

THAT’S SHOWBIZ BABY!!!

88. Mazzer - April 3, 2008

Great clips! That guy from Corbomite Maneuver is still CREEPY!

89. S. John Ross - April 3, 2008

Takei is always a joy :)

90. JimJ - April 3, 2008

Shatner has his own style. A lot of people don’t get it, but it works for him. hence, Emmy nominations and Emmy’s. Envy is a terrible thing. The Shat may have been a jerk, but, he was one of the stars and is still a “leading star actor”.

91. Jorg Sacul - April 3, 2008

Well, if it’s all schtick, it’s worn out. I find it annoying anymore, like watching two old friends fight.

92. Anthony Thompson - April 3, 2008

I’ve met most of the TOS and Gen. casts at autograph signings. George takei was, BY FAR, the friendliest. George interacted with the fans and showed a genuine liking and interest in them. He is truly a class act. Shatner tied with Frakes for being the worst. He didn’t even look up at the fans – just a production line signing by him (and a poor signature at that).

93. THX-1138 - April 3, 2008

I refuse to comment on any more of these Shatner threads.

Dang it!

Takei doesn’t like Shatner. Who cares? Doohan didn’t like Shatner. Heard that one. Koenig didn’t/doesn’t like Shatner. Well, he honestly seems to not like a lot of things.

Takei just wants attention. Well, it looks like he got it. He had been building up a modicum of respect and good will within the Trek community that he seems to have destroyed. Good goin’, George.

94. Papa Jim - April 3, 2008

I am sorry, but I think Mr Takei humor was in very bad taste. But, then again he does work for Howard Stern. If Shatner’s acting was so bad, How come he has had more work and success than you?

95. jabba the hut - April 3, 2008

Anthony,
i check IMDB and Pavel Lychnikoff is on the cast list

what role is he playing?

96. Danpaine - April 3, 2008

Jealousy is ugly.

97. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 3, 2008

#85—That is easy for you to say. It was not you that he repeatedly disrespected by not extending the common courtesy of learning to pronounce one’s name, despite decades of working together in which to finally do so. I think that after such a long period of time, I would probably harbor some resentment for the man as well, and I would venture to say that most others might as well. It is a terrible act of indignity. After all, it is his family name.
Bill has never disputed that and other poor behavior towards others, so I find it odd that so many would defend him still, and even worse, some of you would make him the victim. IMO, Shatner deserves every bit of it. If it makes George feel better to sling some dirt in Shatner’s face, after all these years, so be it. He is finally in a position where he has a public forum in which to do it.

As for Bill, he has an Emmy, a hit show, endorsement deals, etc.

Do you really think that a guy who Bill thought so little of in the last 40 years is going to hurt his feelings? I certainly don’t. I love both of these guys as Star Trek actors, but I have very different opinions on them as people. If William Shatner slapped George Takei, I would have no issue with George slapping him back. What’s the difference? An insult is an insult. The only difference is that one is subtle and more demeaning, while the other is no different than what people have said and done to ridicule Bill Shatner in public for a very long time. What George is going on about is not enough to make me jump to Bill’s defense. He doesn’t need or deserve it.

98. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - April 3, 2008

85. jon1701 – April 3, 2008

“Ok, so maybe he was inconsiderate, maybe he did nick their lines, he was the star for crying out loud. Is he the ONLY star in Hollywood that can be arrogant and self centered?”

Bingo. Most leading men and women were like this and some still are I am sure. Its survival of the fittest. It’s just a fact of life. Just like the list of actors who are labeled “difficult” for their exacting nature. (Like Nimoy)

And for that matter, Nimoy was nicking lines and looking out for number one as well. In fact, at one point Shatner and Nimoy made a contract that what one gets the other gets. So if the cast is mad at Shat for what he done, why does Nimsy get a pass?

The reason? Fandom. The anti-Shatner stuff began in organized Trek fandom in the 80s. The SNL skit was a watermark but it began before that. Why? Simple. He would not kiss their ass. Shatner made it clear he doesn’t recall the specifics of the show, he even recently pointed out he never watched the show. He also never understood the following of the show. The extreme fans made him uncomfortable. He started doing less conventions and then stopped entirely and then did the SNL skit. So Shat became Shat the Bastard.

Meanwhile the supporting cast were picking up on this, their own minor bitterness and dissatisfaction (common among supporting people who never make it big) and who were making good money from Trek fandom just started turning up the dial. So they became more and more anti-Shatner. Especially Doohan who was making a living off con appearances

And that is what George is doing now. People want to talk about Shatner. He knows and has said he dislikes Shatner. That lets him go on a national talk show and talk about Shatner and hype his projects.

So really no harm, no foul. If you see how he hesitated about what he said to Shatner at the end of the roast you can see he doesn’t really hate the man. He is just using the man.

In fact it seems like George is taking pages from Shat’s book and its working for him. More power to him. He finally learned the lesson. Be like Shat. LOL

And as for the roast. Keep in mind folks, the Dean Martin Roasts (not Don Rickles guys, though he was a regular roaster) were cleaned up and made for TV. REAL roasts, such as the infamous Friar’s Club roasts are lewd and crude and harsh and such. Its comedians lambasting other comedians out of love. The Comedy Central thing is a lame version of that. And yes the main problem were the roasters who had no connection to Shatner. Betty White was one of the best. And the Clint Howard moment was priceless. By the way, notice how all the older actors like Betty, Bill, Nichelle and George did their bits from memory and the young comedians needed notes? Interesting. I saw a Jack Benny show the other day where tons of dialouse had to be delivered and it was obvious there were no cue cards. Just awesome.

99. AJ - April 3, 2008

Takei is a lot like Danny Bonaduce of the Partridge Family. He has stayed out of the “Where are They Now?” file thanks to crude humor, and remains barely visible to all on the fringes of fame.

Let’s not forget his political views and his past in the US internment camps during the war. That experience, and his being a liberal, happy, outed homosexual, put his views firmly in the Star Trek camp.

He has mentioned Roddenberry’s vision many times when discussing the show. His foul mouth may not be to everyone’s taste, but his heart has always been in the right place. Cut him a break!

100. New Horizon - April 3, 2008

96. Danpaine – April 3, 2008

Yes, it is…as jealousy lead Shatner to wrestle lines from his co-stars and essentially push HIMSELF into the spotlight. Roddenberry had wanted Trek to be an ensemble show..it was Shatner and Nimoy who basically turned it into the Kirk and Spock show. Roddenberry tried to correct this with Next Gen…and for the most part, that series succeeded..until the movies when it became Picard and Data. Hell, Shatner purposefully flubbed the lines about Sulu gaining captaincy of the Excelsior in ST3 so Takei wouldn’t get his own ship. I don’t think a person like that needs any defending. Sure, there are self centered actors…but that doesn’t make it right. I appreciate his work, but my respect for the man is rather thin. I think he has smartened up in his old age…but you have to have some consideration for the deep wounds his treatment of his fellow actors caused.

101. Anthony Thompson - April 3, 2008

I just watched those videos (they were down for awhile). Man, “The Shat” really took it on the chin! Hahaha. Not much love in the house for dear old Bill. : )

102. Batts - April 3, 2008

I guess we are so used to seeing TOS cast act so perfect and flawless in their values, we cant see beyond the 79 episodes. But let’s face it, they are ACTORS!! What I mean is, Takei’s foul-mouth and crude humor was shocking, But not Sulu!! I was even surprised to see Nichelle Nichols in the Truck Turner movie!!

I could not believe what came out of that mouth! Whoa..But hey! They are just people.

103. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 3, 2008

#100—”Sure, there are self centered actors…but that doesn’t make it right. I appreciate his work, but my respect for the man is rather thin. I think he has smartened up in his old age…but you have to have some consideration for the deep wounds his treatment of his fellow actors caused.”

Well said. I don’t think that the insult which Shatner carried out for decades (the indignity of not learning a man’s name in all that time) can be quantified. I would hold a grudge too.

I love Captain Kirk, but the Shat is an a__hole, and always has been.

104. Penhall - April 3, 2008

Shatner rules.

And yes, Shatner buried the hatchet with the TOS co-stars (even Doohan before he died). I’ve read a lot about Shatner and I dont think he was as bad as some make him out to be.

105. jon1701 - April 3, 2008

#97

Sorry, but if he has a problem with Shatner – he should take it up with him. If he can’t, then he should keep if to himself. Whatever Shatner did or didn’t do (and I’m fairly sure he could be a dick from time to time), I’ve never heard him say a bad word about a fellow cast member, it doesn’t make Takei look cool to rattle on about how he hates him.

It paints an ugly picture. You can almost hear the audience gasping as he flings some of that mud.

106. jon1701 - April 3, 2008

Oh, and I urge you all to check out this clip here. About 0.54 in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9ynP5WL2Sg&feature=related

Great documentary by the way. I suggest you check it out.

107. Irish Terran - April 3, 2008

Hilarious

108. JoshC - April 3, 2008

I thought that was funny.

I also think its funny when people rush to the aid of Shatner.

Personally — I GET IT. I’ve worked with people I loathe too. And I could understand why he LOATHES Shatner. Still, I like both of them. I only feel slightly bad that they had to be in each others lives their entire lives. Of course their millionaires off of this show … so I don’t feel THAT bad.

109. star trackie - April 3, 2008

#100 “it was Shatner and Nimoy who basically turned it into the Kirk and Spock show. ”

Was it Shatner and Nimoy that forced the credits to feature only their names because they were the stars of the show? No.
Did Shatner and Nimoy force the writers to pen stories that revolved around the two stars of the show? Of course not.
Were the writers open to writing more for other characers? Yes, that much we know from the eventual expansion of the McCoy character and the addition of Deforest to the opening credits.

From everything I’ve read and heard, the supporting cast was never ever meant to be prominantly featured as “stars” to help carry the show. They were cast as window dressing with the intent to show diversity in the crew…and that is all. Except, of course, Walter, who was cast to cash in on the teen girls who loved Davy Jones.

110. Myrth - April 3, 2008

The “Shatner was an ass lets roast him for it” made for some funny anticdotes over the years, but at this point, after parroting it everywhere, Takei jsut sounds like a little kid. He has not had to work with him in over a decade. Its pathetic.

111. Buzz Cagney - April 3, 2008

Poor George. So much hatred in such a little man.

112. AJ - April 3, 2008

105: No one was gasping, and no, Conan was not offended.

This is Takei the 21st century Howard Stern announcer taking a Hollywood myth and having some fun with it.

I can’t imagine that all these actors lie awake at night worrying about how they were dissed by Shatner in 1966.

By the way, Shatner is considered by most to be a poor actor, and we have heard that directors have had to tire him out before he can say a line without shouting and over-emoting (Family Guy Fiddler-on-the-Roof as a possible preview)

But when he gets a character that fits him, Watch Out. Kirk and Denny Crane.

113. Teleportation Girl - April 3, 2008

Alpha males are always grough until you stop taking it personally, like Takei did, and learn to love their inner tribble. Shat is King.

114. Buzz Cagney - April 3, 2008

and the Big Giant Head No 112!

115. Mike - April 3, 2008

George Takei is awesome. So is William Shatner. Shatner is, however, an ass.

What is TRULY pathetic is people that feel the need to make him an object of worship. Calm down guys, and as Bill himself said, “Get a Life!”

116. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - April 3, 2008

100. New Horizon – April 3, 2008:

Television didn’t work like that back in the day (and frankly I don’t think it should work like that today, but thats a debate for another time.).

Shatner and Nimoy were the stars because they were meant to be the stars. And Kelly joined them very quickly.

We really need a list of Star Trek urban legends/false facts. A Star Trek Scopes. :) Roddenberry put that crap out very late in life during his dementia and TNG fans ate it up. But it simply isn’t true. Now, do I think he may have WISHED TOS had been an ensemble, sure. But Roddenberry knew TV backwards and forwards and he would have had better luck selling a female first officer than making the show an ensemble. Of course he didn’t have any luck with the later either. :)

And TNG never corrected anything…except my insomnia. Ba dump bump.

117. Jovan - April 3, 2008

#112: Nicholas Meyer had to do exactly that in Star Trek II.

Guys, chill out. All he said was that he consistently mispronounced his last name. I saw no “bashing” whatsoever. Most of us posting have probably only been on this planet for about half as long as they’ve known each other. (40+ years) Put that into perspective — you’d get annoyed if someone you worked with for just a year couldn’t get your last name right. Now think, 40 years? I think he has a legitimate complaint.

No, it is not REQUIRED that actors get along. But when you’ve made a career along with other actors that you’ve worked with forever, it kind of helps to develop a good rapport with your co-stars. Shatner may have been the star, but when supporting characters have been with the leading man just as long and gotten a lot of adoring fans, I think it’s easy to say they deserve a bit of screen time and their time to shine and develop their characters.

118. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 3, 2008

#105—”It paints an ugly picture. You can almost hear the audience gasping as he flings some of that mud.”

It IS an ugly picture, but I didn’t gasp. I smiled, and I have enjoyed Shatner’s first twenty years as Kirk as much as the next fan. Besides, I believe what you are referring to was a “roast”. Much of it was devoted to poking fun at Bill’s overacting and hammy performances.

“I’ve never heard him say a bad word about a fellow cast member, it doesn’t make Takei look cool to rattle on about how he hates him.”

He may have done his part in private, but he has also confirmed what his co-stars have said about his behavior, so whether it was public or private then is irrelevant. It is all public now, and Shatner is as responsible for this situation as Takei. Perhaps if he had just taken the time to extend a basic courtesy–that is, learn a man’s name, this wouldn’t be an issue.

And let’s not forget that George has said he has forgiven Bill in the time since the roast. Naturally, people like Conan are still going to ask about it. Since Takei wants as much exposure as he can get for his own projects, it is beneficial to him to be willing to tell that story as much as people want to hear it.

As for being “cool”, Stern listeners seem to think so, and there are alot of them (although I am not one of them). It’s Hollywood, and exposure is exposure. I don’t think Takei’s behavior is any less dignified than Shatner’s whining about not being in STXI. That much is certain to me.

119. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - April 3, 2008

118. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) – April 3, 2008:

Dignity has no real place in Hollywood. Even the most dignified and classy such as Morgan Freeman I am sure has had to do things that would go against his public persona. Acting is a job. A job for narrasitc people with egos who all want to land the big part. So I see no problem with whatever Shatner or Takei has done.

The only mistake Shatner may have made is that he really didn’t get what a phenomena Star Trek was. He understood it was popular and had a cult following, but I don’t think he understood the scope of in depth as compared to width. He treated it like a job. Just like he treated Twilight Zone, T. J. Hooker and Empire of the Spiders. He has since learned that the old cast have become like family and that the fans think of the casts as family as well. He has come around on that and he embraces that much more now. Hence his bonding with the cast on Boston Legal. (Tho that has to be difficult with how they change over the supporting cast so much. Rene we miss ya!)

But one thing still always gets looked over. He was VERY good friends with the two TOS stars that everyone looks up to the most. That being Nimoy and Kelly. Now either these men were not everything people make them out to be or else there must be something to this Shatner guy for two great guys like that to befriend him.

And please not that Nimoy and Kelly were co-leads….and the rest weren’t. Coincidence? I think not.

I love Nichelle, Walter and George. I am happy to see them get more and more of their just reward for their undying loyalty to Trek and enjoy seeing them more now that the Mod Trek cloud has finally lifted. And I loved James. But whatever real feelings they had, I certainly hope its dealt with by now. And I think they are. As I said above, I firmly believe this is just publicity stunts by George. And very shrewd ones as well.

120. I am not Herbert - April 3, 2008

Ahhh! Tranya!!

Good stuff!!!

121. CmdrR - April 3, 2008

George could live to be 135 years old?
So that, what? 60 more years of whining about the Shat?

122. David L - April 3, 2008

#92 I feel I have to make a small comment in reponse to your remarks. I have no firsthand knowledge of how Mr Shatner treats the fans, I do however have some knowledge of how Mr Frakes treats fans. I ran into him in Belfast Maine a few years ago quite by accident. (I think it was 2002) I was working as an accountant for the Belfast & Moosehead Lake Railroad, and my boss had me manning the ticket booth on a weekend. I could not believe who walked up but Mr Frakes and his wife Genie Francis (General Hospital’s Laura)They wanted two tickets for the dinner train. I immediately recognized him, and told him I was a huge fan of Star Trek, and was very fond of his character. He was very gracious, and even signed one of our promotional flyers for me. My boss later informed me that he was a “regular” when it came to riding the train, and a supporter of the railroad. I also later found out he owns a home in Belfast Maine. Everyone I worked with loved the man and had nothing but good to say about him. He also supports local theater in the Belfast school system. I am also a member of Starfleet (Bangor Maine chapter). Folks in the group have met him as well and say he is a nice guy. Maybe you simply caught him on a bad day,

123. Fuabmushu - April 3, 2008

Hey Jonestown Wannabes,

When the Shat tells you all to drink your cyanide laced Kool-Aid, make sure to leave the PIN numbers to your bank accounts out in the open as you drink down that last swallow.

124. NCC-73515 - April 3, 2008

Takei rulez… Pike would have been the better captain!

125. jon1701 - April 3, 2008

#118

Yeah, I take some of your points – I hope you take some of mine. I was more concerned with Takei than Shatner. I certainly wasn’t attempting to defend Shatner (he can take it) , I was more disappointed (and shocked) in George’s behaviour. Whilst it does seem lighthearted on the surface, i still detect a bitter undertone which doesn’t sit right with me. At the roast ( I saw the whole programme), he was the only one that seemed to have real vitriol in his voice. The others seemed to be affectionately taking the piss. If he has a problem with Shatner, I’d much rather he duck the question. Sometimes silence speaks louder than words.

Oh and I was using cool as another verb for “good”. George Takei, sadly, will never be “cool”…

Walking onto every talkshow set showing the Vulcan Salute before opening with “Live Long & Prosper” takes care to that…

:D

126. jon1701 - April 3, 2008

Oh, and I still love takei, but some things can never be forgiven…

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=3kCvvjzMxeo

127. Chris Doohan - April 3, 2008

I won’t get into specifics, but there is much more going on here than most people know, and the problems that most, or all of the supporting cast has with Shatner, goes much deeper then pure animosity, hatred or jealously. I too have had a few “I can’t believe Bill did that” moments, but I will keep those to myself.

Although, George, Walter and Nichelle have said negative things about Bill, I believe they are warranted and do not in anyway stem from any type of jealousy. A matter of fact, I believe they are showing great restraint and handling their distain for Shatner in a fairly dignified manner. Had they not laid their cards on the table, they would have been lying to their fans by saying that there was nothing wrong. I, for one, appreciated their restrained honesty.

Yes, Shatner calls Nimoy and Kelly his friends and I believe that this friendship came out of mutual respect for one another. I also believe that had Shatner shown the same respect for the rest of the crew, we would not be here talking about this today.

128. Captain Pike - April 3, 2008

I don’t think all the cast’s opinions of Shatner changed in the 80s. Jimmy Doohan always had candid opinions about different people. Which I won’t repeat.

I’ve met J. Frakes a couple time at events and he was always gracious. If anybody as an actor should be bitter about Star Trek it’s him. Riker was supposed to be the dual lead character in TNG – the new Kirk in fact. Instead he was always second fiddle to Picard and was soon eclipsed by Data and Worf as fan favorites. But I’ve never heard him complain about it.

129. I Love My Moogie - April 3, 2008

One of George’s biggest moan is how Shat ‘ruined’ the takes for Sulu’s promotion to captain scene in TWOK. Shat later explained in Starlog he was looking out for George’s best interest because how could Sulu be in further movies if he no longer was on the Enterprise—-just look at TUC, if you add up George’s screen time it’s less than 5 minutes. George should be grateful The Shat’s wisdom made it possible for Sulu to be in TSFS, TVH & TFF.

Stop the blind bitterness & make peace with The Shat, George!

130. CmdrR - April 3, 2008

As to autograph signings. We all want ‘em, but beyond the pain that goes with writing them, think about how a star feels when he’s signing as fast as he can and still the line is backing up.
Personally, I’d rather see these events handled with photo ops (seated or standing) than autographs. After years of it, most of the biggies just zap a virtual straight line I could do myself. At a James Doohan signing, a handler informed me that I’d get his name, but nothing else — wasn’t possible. In hindsight, I understand, even if I was disappointed at the time. (Anyway, I was the only one in line with a Tech Manual signed by Scotty!) Away from that dreadful line, Jimmy Doohan couldn’t have been more fun. His WWII stories on stage were breathtaking. I also heard from a few of that con’s organizers that he held court at the bar in pretty fair fashion.

Chris — Just now seeing you’re in the room. Your dad was a pure pleasure to be around. (Sorry about the Shat-bashing, even if it is deserved. My only comment there is that had Shat been a shrinking violet, the show wouldn’t have lasted thru season one.)

131. AJ - April 3, 2008

I ran into the Shat in November 1992, the day after Clinton won the election. I was walking down Columbus Avenue in NYC reading my NY Times and heading toward the HQ of channel 7, the local ABC affiliate, while on the way to work. I looked up, and there he was, crossing the street and B-lining for the front door.

“Um…Mr. Shatner?”

He signed my NY Times right on the headline, and ran on in. How flipping cool is that?

132. I Love My Moogie - April 3, 2008

#128:

Captain Pike, Jonathan Frakes is a class act all the way!

133. Iowagirl - April 3, 2008

I like Sulu, but TOS has not become iconic due to the man in the helmsman‘s chair. I think *that’s* what‘s still wearing Takei the most. Is Shatner to blame? Yes, of course, HE was cast as the Captain, and he did it well enough to make Kirk the icon he is today. Sorry, George.;-)

Anyway, for each one who says Shatner is a d___d (Takei, Nichols, Koenig), there’s a friend (Nimoy, Kelley, Stewart), so who cares. That’s life.

I for one will always be very, very grateful for TOS, and all its wonderful characters.

End of story. Next.

134. AJ - April 3, 2008

127 Chris:

I met you dad a bunch of times at signings, and as you have heard 10,000 times, he was such a sweet guy. I went up to him all nervous with my “Mr. Scott’s Guide to the Enterprise,” and he signed it twice because I had no idea what I had asked him to do. He was a kind and gentle rock star to all of us who met him.

What you said sounds really crappy, and it would be tough for us fanpersons to imagine something as bad as you say.

Maybe it was corporate politics, but I cannot imagine what Shatner would have to gain from it. He was the star, for Christ’s sake.

135. I Love My Moogie - April 3, 2008

Iowagirl, Shat & Patrick Stewart also became good friends during & after GEN. Maybe George is bitter he didn’t make it into Shat’s Captain’s Club.

136. The Vulcanista - April 3, 2008

#127

Wow!

Thanks for the input, Chris.

Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|

137. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 3, 2008

#129—-He was looking out for George’s interest? That is not his place, and I don’t believe that explanation for a second. His actions during the filming of TWOK were simply consistent with what he has admitted to doing during the filming of TOS.

As for George’s scenes in TUC, the scenes aboard Excelsior were some of the only ones I found myself able to take seriously.

It made no sense whatsoever, to this former military officer anyway, that Checkov, Uhura, Mr. Scott, and even Spock and McCoy, would still be serving at the side of Capt. Kirk during the timeframe depicted in the last two original films. Spock held the rank of Captain as early as TWOK. Why didn’t he have his own command by then? Even if he didn’t want one, it seems completely unrealistic that Starfleet wouldn’t find a more pertinent and permanent duty for Spock. McCoy should have been head of Starfleet Medical by then (if not back in retirement), or perhaps teaching. He would be too valuable a resource to allow to remain in fleet service duty. Checkov and Uhura held the rank of Commander in TWOK, so was Kirk blackballing them and keeping them from enjoying the priviledge of their status in Starfleet? Or was Starfleet simply squandering valuable personnel resources by failing to spread them out and allowing them to continue serving aboard one ship and under Jim Kirk? This is one of the reasons that the original cast shouldn’t have even made TFF and TUC, or at least they should have been on other ships or positions which made more sense. The way it was written was somewhat ridiculous, and very hard to take seriously.

Even if Bill WAS looking out for George’s interests then (which I don’t buy for a second), someone sure neglected to look after the believability of the storylines and the continued development of the characters. Sulu’s promotion was the only one which really made any sense.

138. Battletrek - April 3, 2008

Iowagirl defends Shatner, how surprising!

139. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 3, 2008

#127—Interesting perspective from someone who knows these people better than the rest of us. What some here may see as extreme reaction, may actually be very restrained, considering what often took place behind the scenes.

140. I Love My Moogie - April 3, 2008

#137:

Mr. Poopey face (formerly known as Closettrekker), The original crew continued to serve under Kirk as a sign of respect & family, which is more than the Takei is doing.

The is no doubt Shat was looking after George’s interests during TWOK, he knew Trek’s core is Kirk/Spock/McCoy & didn’t want to see the Sulu role further deminished due to George’s need to grab a ill advised onscreen moment.

PS: TUC, IMO is a great film.

141. CmdrR - April 3, 2008

Sulu hated Kirk.
Gilligan smokes pot.
Mrs. Brady and Greg doin’ it in Tiger’s dog house.

My childhood has been a lie! One big lie!

142. AJ - April 3, 2008

Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker):

You are absolutely correct. Why are they still together in TFF or TUC? I think the answer is, as someone once said, “This is Fantasy.!”

We paid our money to see this crew together, not splitting apart. TUC finally gave Sulu the damned ship, and it worked.

In TNG films, ´’DS9 Worf’ was always tossed into the mix, hell or high water, because he was part of the original cast.

And Riker just never took that promotion because if he did, he would leave the show.

Better to show real life in the 21st century, like LOST (Wow, that main character just died) than rely on the full ensemble. Let them be promoted or killed.

143. NC Trek Fan - April 3, 2008

I have only got to meet one TOS actor, DeForest Kelly. He was a true southern gentleman.

144. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 3, 2008

#140—”The original crew continued to serve under Kirk as a sign of respect & family…”

That attempt at an explanation doesn’t make it any more believable.

” …which is more than the Takei is doing.”

That’s funny. I can pronounce the names of everyone in my family.

“…he knew Trek’s core is Kirk/Spock/McCoy & didn’t want to see the Sulu role further deminished due to George’s need to grab a ill advised onscreen moment.”

If he didn’t want Sulu’s role to be further diminished, he would have helped make it more meaningful and realistic by allowing the promotion scene to take place as it was supposed to. As it was, it made no sense that Sulu was stuck, as were some of the others, at a subservient position.

And what would have made it “ill-advised”? Sulu’s position as Captain of another ship could have made an interesting element for future stories. As I said, the Excelsior scenes in TUC were the only ones that made any sense, as far as further development of the original characters.

Maybe Sulu and his ship, as an added plot element, could have made for a better story in TFF (aka The Great Trek Turd) as well.

Who knows? Maybe Captain Sulu could have saved Kirk from having his ship hijacked by a gang of goofballs in need of a bath, only to regain control through the good graces of a crazy Vulcan in a hotel bathrobe!!!

Oh well. I guess the big 3 singing “Row Your Boat” while “toasting the marshmelon”, the whole Scotty/Uhura middle school flirting thing, and of course, an Enterprise that did not function (despite the best Engineer in Starfleet) was the best we could get.

You were talking about “ill-advised scenes”? Hmmm…

145. Chris Doohan - April 3, 2008

To make myself clear, I meant no disrespect towards Mr. Shatner and I believe he’s a good man. For what it’s worth, Bill Shatner has always been nice to me.

143: He was a true Gentleman. He is missed

146. Ethan Shuster - April 3, 2008

Yeah, I’m getting tired of this Shatner stuff. So, maybe Shatner was a pompous jerk. So what? He WAS the star of that show. And if his acting sucked so bad, George (and the others) then how bad do you guys have to be for him to continue on to be a successful actor. Now, some might find it disingenuous that Shatner sometimes has acted like the old cast were all friends, but I rarely recall him bad mouthing any of the rest of them. Get over it, people. We all know Shatner’s reputation. This stuff’s getting real old. Shatner isn’t some great, extremely talented actor, but he does generally seem professional. At least in front of the camera. Takei’s recent career tends to be all built around him being a joke. His odd voice, his being gay. His wonderful Howard Stern appearances seem to be about making fun of gay people.

I don’t mean to rant, but this subject has been done to death.

147. CmdrR - April 3, 2008

Thanks, Chris.
We know you’re polite — unlike many of us (myself include) in these threads.
Awhile back, we saw Billy Blackburn’s on set home movies of the cast having fun. It would be nice to get a few more of those stories, to counterbalance the stories of strained relationships.
I work in TV news, Land of the Giant Egos. As I’ve said, shrinking violets fail here. Sometimes people are jerks. At some point, everyone has to make peace with what’s what… or move on.

148. Steven X - April 3, 2008

I’m tired of people blindly supporting Shatner just because he was Captain Kirk. Guess what? George was not only a better actor but his career is doing better.

149. Iowagirl - April 3, 2008

#137
- Spock held the rank of Captain as early as TWOK. Why didn’t he have his own command by then? -

Because he wasn’t interested in an command of his own. He stated that several times. Furthermore, Spock’s loyalty towards Kirk has always been his Prime Directive – loyalty on either side, the first and most important grounding for the Kirk-Spock dynamic. It may have been somewhat unrealistic from a Starfleet pov, but this is how TOS and the films worked. This is how the characters were portrayed, as a family. This is how the people watching felt as if they belonged. Say it was make-believe, but TOS being such a cult, such an icon, tells a different story.

We shouldn’t let the actors’ personal differences interfere with TOS. Their professionalism made it possible that TOS reached its iconic heights despite any possible interpersonal problems.

#138
How flattering, Battletrek, that you single me out from the more than usual pro-Shatner posts there, but believe me, even I am sure that the Shat doesn’t need my defense…:)

150. Chris Doohan - April 3, 2008

147

They did have a bunch of fun on the set and it shows on those blooper reels. My personal favorite was when they had their hands on each others shoulders while skipping down the hallways.

They would always get a big laugh when the guys didn’t open the door fast enough. Every one of them slammed into a closed door or two during filming.

151. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 3, 2008

#149—I don’t dispute that Spock made that lack of desire to command known. He says in TWOK that, ” (On a training mission)I am content to command the Enterprise”. Given the caveat, that does not exactly exude desire. However, that does not explain why Starfleet would not assign him somewhere else and avoid the misuse of personnel resources. Not all man and women who hold the rank of Captain command a ship. “Captain” can be a simply a rank, or indicative of a position held.

While you acknowledge that it may be unrealistic, you also claim that this is how TOS and the films worked. It was not that way in TOS, and it was also not that way in the films until STV. You speak of TOS being a cult and an icon, and that is true. But I do not feel that I am going out on a limb in saying that after TVY, the quality of the stories and films were never the same, and that is where the lack of realistic development of characters comes into play for the TOS-era. I don’t feel that it was ever a problem before.

My point was to dispute the notion that Sulu’s promotion in TWOK would have been in any way detrimental, thus Moogie’s (and Shatner’s) claim that Bill was looking out for Takei’s interest by intentionally tanking a scene is ridiculous.

As for letting their personal differences between the actors interfere with our love for TOS, I wouldn’t dream of it. People who do not like each other work well together quite often. This is no different.

152. Dif - April 3, 2008

I don’t think it matters if Shatner was a butthead – the issue for me is that Takei was on the show to promote something totally unrelated to ST or Shatner and 99% of the interview was “Shatner is a meaniepoopoohead.”

That is ‘tasteless’ to me – when you go on and on about a bunch of mess and the interviewer has to basically say “Remember, you’re hear to promote such and such completely un-related to your current tirade!”

Now, if it was an actual interview for ST, then I would get it. Kind of. I really don’t get the point of complaining about a situation you are no longer in…and haven’t been for numerous years. And one that you could have opted out of at anytime. It just makes the person griping look ridiculous. I can accept ‘needing to get your side of the story out’ – that’s fine. But if you feel the need to do it everysingletime a microphone is shoved in your face, then you’re just as big of a jerk. Even more so if the target of your ire doesn’t accept the bait.

(I really don’t consider the name thing that big of a deal, realistically, they didn’t work together all that much, probably didn’t interact personally all that much, and pronouncing it “Tack-EYE” is pronouncing it phonetically – everytime I hear him get all up in arms about it, I thought “Gee whiz, I better not ever meet him, I didn’t learn to say his name correctly until I was in high school!” And, some people are absolute angels and just horrific with names – not that I think Shatner is an ‘angel’, but the point is made.)

153. Garovorkin - April 3, 2008

Takei doing this Shatner is disappointing to me, even if he doesn’tpersonally like Shatner Why lower himself by dissing Shatner? I have heard that Shatner was no angel, really George there was no call for that.

154. CmdrR - April 3, 2008

Thanks, Chris. Apparently, gentility and good humor are genetic.

155. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 3, 2008

#152–And why do you think he was deemed interesting enough to the Conan producers to be asked on as a guest? Promoting his current projects was the benefit Takei received by appearing on the show. George is not stupid. He knows what they wanted to hear. You can bet Shatner knows that business too. It may be tasteless, but the truth is, they want to hear what he says about Shatner. They couldn’t care less about what he is promoting. They just let him promote it as long as they get the juicy stuff. That is Hollywood exposure. If that is what he has to do to get his name and cuurrent work out there, then that is the wisest course for him. Conan has alot of viewers. Let’s keep some perspective.

Tasteless? Yes. Good business? Absolutely. Any press is good press in that industry.

156. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 3, 2008

#152—”I didn’t learn to say his name correctly until I was in high school!”

That’s understandable. You did not know him personally, much less work along side of him for decades. There is a big difference. Whether Shatner was an a$$ to his co-stars is not up for debate. He has himself admitted this.

157. T Negative - April 3, 2008

Takei is a freak. Horrible actor too.

He was OK in TOS but after that he stunk up the place.

158. Katie G. - April 3, 2008

I feel very sorry for George.

Don’t you guys get it? He has to blame SOMEONE for never making it as big as others in Hollywood. He can’t blame himself. God forbid he should ever admit that it’s because he is just not that good. (Sorry George.) If Nimoy or Shatner didn’t attract fan mail, they would have been forgotten just as easily. He was fine when he had the odd line here and there but when they gave him more substantial parts, he crashed and burned. (In my opinion.) I was mortified when I watched the Roast (and not just at George but that’s a thread of another colour). What he chose to say made him look like he was desperate for attention. Pitiful.

Just like in “Lost in Space”, the doctor and the robot probably got the most fan mail so, with visions of dollar signs dancing in their heads, the producers milked it for all it was worth. Poor Guy Williams. He couldn’t believe what they were doing. His excitement at scoring this role must have disintegrated fairly quickly. (Same with Mark Goddard.)

There is something wrong when you can look at the screen, watch your own horrible acting, and still think you’ve been railroaded. He is obviously someone who has been deeply wounded and just covered it up because he didn’t know how to deal with it. Someone who is secure in themselves could admit their shortcomings and move on or at least try to improve.

I am a soloist. There are times when, after I have listened to my taped performance, I cringe and sometimes even cry because it did not sound very good. Still, people ask me to sing. I just don’t get it. However, I am not fooling myself. I enjoy singing and if they want to hear me, fine. I do not have ANY delusions of grandeur whatsoever. It took a while for me to get there but it is such FREEDOM!!!!!!!

I do hope George can find some peace. He is just alienating himself from the fans that he wants to win over.

As for me, I wasn’t there so I don’t know who to believe. It’s all so sad…

kg

159. toddk - April 3, 2008

yeah i watched the comedy central roast. While it had its moments (baylock as an example) the rest of the roast was a cringe fest and I kept reaching for the mouse to click it off..but made it through. I dont think that this was the roast that shat really wanted. His kind of roast would have been the dean martin type, Not surrounded by trek co-stars but better known hollywood types, alas it could have only happened in the 80′s..and the 80′s are now decades behind us.

as far as seeing takei in a different light when watching older trek, It has not changed. it’s seeing takei talking in vulger tones on talk shows that make me unconfortable.

160. Ro-Dan - April 3, 2008

BANANA OIL!

We Godzilla fans know all about that infamous line. ;)

161. I Love My Moogie - April 3, 2008

Chris,
When your dad was on Howard Stern, no matter how hard Howard tried to get him to bash Shat, Mr Doohan took the high road & REFUSED. That’s class!!!

Takei has a new career thanks solely to Howard Stern, it’s time for him to zip the Shat-bashing & move on!

162. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - April 3, 2008

144. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker):

And just how would you go about writing something with all the characters to hither and yon? Seems like a muddle ready to happen. Yes it can be done once perhaps like it was done wonderfully in TUC but from there it would be even more ludicrous than the fact they are all still together.

You can’t treat fiction with too much realism. The fact is most people want to see the familiar old crew together, not scattered across space. Unless the point of the story was for them to all get back together.

The fact is if that scene had been done when it had been, we may have gotten to see Sulu once more but then likely he would be out of a job. That is what Shatner meant if indeed he did what is reported for the reasons he stated. George likely had visions of Star Trek: Excelsior dancing in his head and likely feels Shatner robbed him of that. Who knows. The real issues are private. The public stuff is just for publicity.

163. sean - April 3, 2008

As is apparent from not only the comments from Nichelle, George, Jimmy & Walter, but Majel Rodenberry, Harlan Elison, DC Fontana, Bob Justman & others, Bill could be an insufferable ass when he felt so inclined. Hell, Bill’s own Star Trek Memories books allow for this. Nimoy (as good of a friend to him as he is now) has even admitted that Spock’s increased screen time grated on Shatner at the time.

Now, we can either accept that as a younger man Bill rubbed a great number of his cast & crewmates the wrong way, or that literally dozens and dozens of people are lying out of jealousy. The simplest answer tends to be true, but if you want to go the conspiracy theory route, then I suppose everyone that offers anything but a glowing memory of Bill is ‘jealous’ and ‘attention starved’.

That being said, yes George’s schtick is getting old. I think he’s playing it mostly for laughs, but it’s just coming across as bitter. I could use the same defense many use for Bill, that it’s the interviewers that bring the subject up (as Conan clearly did here), but I think that’s a pretty weak defense for Bill or for George. He can choose his words, and in this case, he chose to go on about it in an unpleasant way. So yeah, George, let’s find a new subject.

Of couse, that Bill chose to continue pronouncing his name incorrectly for over 40 years is probably a very sore point – I say ‘chose’ because there’s no reasonable explanation for Shatner not getting the name right after knowing the man & working with him for that long. I’ve heard him mispronounce it on many occasions, so it’s not just Takei’s imagination gone wild, either.

164. sean - April 3, 2008

#150

Chris, not to get into anything that you wouldn’t be comfortable discussing, but any idea why your dad didn’t want to do the Futurama episode? ‘Welshy’ was an amusing substitute, but not nearly as great as if your dad would have been there! :)

165. hitch1969© - April 3, 2008

Alls I would say to those who are “disgusted” with Takei’s new foul humor… first of all you have a choice and do not have to expose yourself to it if it makes you that upset. Second of all, as a gay man, do y’all have any idea what this guy does with other men in his private life? That doesn’t disgust you? Or just when he talks about it in detail on Howard Stern?

I personally like gay Sulu. I think it’s interesting that he is honest to discuss that he avoids certain practices because it caused him hemmoroids or how he prefers a man smells. Or number of other details he’s given about his sex life on that show. – like everyone on that show does. He’s not crass about it at all, doesn’t flaunt it or anything to make anyone uncomfortable – he will matter of factly answer questions about his life when Howard and the crew ask him.

If anyone’s been listening this week, everyone’s been all over Artie Lange and his use of the F bomb – Takei had wanted him to do an anti-gay slur PSA. Lifebeat unilaterally decided that they would not take Artie’s money or endorsements because he used the F bomb – but Takei is sticking up for him. He understands that Artie is a good person. Sure, he wishes that Artie would not use that word…. I don’t know. I just see Takei as a very reasonable, caring, and forgiving person and I think that says alot about him. He’s always a gentleman.

Chris Doohan, I understand that the stuff between your dad and Shatner (mainly the one way, your dad to Shatner?) ran pretty deep. Shatner’s probably a bit of the duplicitous guy that Takei claims him to be when he wrote in his book to your dad something along the lines of I don’t know what your problem is, but if you ever want to sit down and talk it out over a drink… you know, whatever he wrote, its been years since I read it, but I do remember at the time thinking it was a little condescending to your dad.

However, if you’re going to be commenting on a topic like this and if you have something relative to contribute, I don’t think it fair to hold back like that by saying you’re not going to go into it. You have specifics, I want to hear them. And, I’d probably believe you.

When you leave it ambiguous like that, you perhaps make it sound worse than it actually was. I mean, was this like a situation where one dude is screwing the other dude’s wife or stealing from him or something? I think you should clarify what you mean, beyond whats already out there as common knowledge. Because you certainly seem to imply that there is more.

And finally man… I gotta tell you. You don’t have to take the high road here. That was your dad. If it was my dad, I don’t care how many people who loved Shatner that I would alienate. If you feel that Shatner did wrong by your dad, that’s the road you need to take, man. Don’t waffle on it. I would hate Shatner too if I were you. Very understandable. That’s your dad, dude.

BEST!@!

=h=

166. I Am Morg Not Eymorg - April 3, 2008

162. sean:

I for one don’t doubt Bill was an ass. As Closettrekker and yourself point out, Bill said as much in Star Trek Memories. I do not contest that. What I contest is that its such an oddity in Hollywood of all places. I have heard tons of stories about all kinds of stars. It takes a special sort of group of aspects to make it as a star. More often than not ego and attitude is among it. And once again I remind people that Nimoy was seen as a pain in his own way by the producers, directors and writers.

And honestly the name thing is silly. Some people just have problems remembering how to pronounce things. My Grandfather could never pronounce my friend Darrell’s name. And my friend Darrell can’t pronounce the street he lives on, McKown.

It happens. Not saying for sure that is what happens but its just as possible as Shat screwing it up on purpose. Although it does fit Shat’s sense of humor. Because I would be tempted to do that to someone I work with who is that anal about it as well. Just saying.

And frankly…I think that is behind some of this. Shatner’s humor. The bike stories alone are indicative. It is very possible that some of the cast didn’t find him as funny as others did and took it personal. Lets face it, does Walter have a sense of humor? :LOL

167. SPOCKBOY - April 3, 2008

Here is George taking a stab a Shatner in cartoon form.

http://www.livevideo.com/video/gmoney/01353761B20C42ADB2D7957FF67D0F5A/george-takei-the-bill-shatne.aspx

168. Anthony Thompson - April 3, 2008

122. David L.

You may be right about it just being a bad day for Frakes. On another occasion, when I was taking a VIP tour of Paramount, the tram passed Frakes and he smiled and warmly waved to us. As for the earlier encounter I don’t think he wanted to be signing autographs. But that was certainly in his contract with Creation. Still, I think he should have made the best of it and at least looked up and greeted the folks who were there to see him.

169. litenbug - April 3, 2008

A Guilty duo…
Takei continues to talk about his dislike of Shatner and doesn’t get over it. Or brings it up for attention…

Shatner has no excuses. “Leading man”, Iconic Character” “Charisma” and like, gives no one the right to make others feel inferior or demean them.

Just more whine and ego.

170. NoonienSpock - April 3, 2008

Takei = (Tick Tock) -(Tick) +(Eight) – (t) = [tock-eigh]  たけい 「武井」

Takai = [Tock-Eye] = ‘tall’ or ‘expensive’ in Japanese  たかい 「高い」

171. Mr. AtoZ - April 3, 2008

Ok, get up off the floor and stop throwing a fit like a baby. It’s over you don’t have to work together anymore. We ALL know the story.

172. Mr. Bob Dobalina - April 3, 2008

Well well well. George is feasting on his sour grapes again I see. And many fans, I see, still haven’t gotten over the “Get a life” sketch.

Frankly I don’t think Shat will lose much sleep tonight over any of it. The world still loves him, the fans (most of them anyway lol) still love him, the cast of Boston Legal still loves him and emmy voters still love him. So what if George, the other “supporting players” of Trek and a few disgruntled Trek fans do not?

Yep, despite the wishes of some, the Shat will sleep just fine tonight…drifting silently to sleep, soothed by the peaceful sounds of his uber-coolness.

173. sean - April 3, 2008

#170

I always found the ‘Get A Life’ skit hilarious, yet still think Bill is 90% responsible for the bad rep he has with castmates & others in the industry. In fact, I bet far fewer Trek fans were actually ‘offended’ by that sketch than is commonly believed.

It doesn’t mean he has the same issues now, and in light of how much affection his current castmates have for him, it seems likely he’s shed that particular character trait. But to deny it existed, and that certain relationships have been permanently damaged by it is silly, given the abundance of testimonials from former castmates.

And I’m sure Shatner will sleep just fine, though I think that might be part of what led to all of this in the first place – his lack of ‘awareness’ of how his actions affected those around him. He actually talks about that in the ST Memories books, as well.

174. I Love My Moogie - April 3, 2008

The Shat discussed this in his ST Memories books well over a decade ago, Shat is the one who made this public in the first place. George, just as Sulu rides Kirk’s coat tails, you ride Bill’s. Shat will ALWAYS be more famous & beloved, accept it & move on.

175. Garovorkin - April 3, 2008

I seem to recall that in wrath of Khan sulu was supposed to be about to get his own command, ans the script had Kirk congradualating Sulu but that Shatner had the line cut from the script, I think Takei is still mad about that one.

176. JoshC - April 3, 2008

#115.

Mike!

I like that.

177. The Vulcanista - April 3, 2008

#149, and it bears repeating over and over: “We shouldn’t let the actors’ personal differences interfere with TOS. Their professionalism made it possible that TOS reached its iconic heights despite any possible interpersonal problems.”

DINGDINGDING! Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

Peace. Live long and prosper.
The Vulcanista }:-|

178. Garovorkin - April 3, 2008

I would like to see someone drama about the cast and crew of trekand life on the set of the original series. It surprises me that no film maker in Hollywood or cable has ever though of doing a project like that. I must say i would love to see that film. here is definitly a movie here.

179. Xai (bring on more movie news and less TMZ) - April 3, 2008

New subject please.

Takei has work, so does Shatner.
Both need to grow up. Forgive and forget or at least shut up… life’s far too short to hold a grudge or bring up past sins.

180. Wick - April 3, 2008

Does anyone remember that episode, “Balance of Terror”. There was a scene where at the conclusion to a briefing, Kirk waits in the briefing room a little while longer to talk to McCoy. The whole time, Sulu stands at the door. Then when Kirk leaves, Sulu walks briskly next to him, escorting his captain like a good officer. It was such a simple little thing, but is was so very cool because it made Kirk look cool. I think that this emulates what it was that made TOS a success. It was not the space ships or the strange new worlds that made TOS, it was ultimately about Captain Kirk. That is what everyone was watching. Shatner understood this, and he knew that in order for the series to work, then the cast would need to build Kirk up and act more in a supporting role. Some people may call this arrogance, but it is really about selling a product. TOS would not of worked with an ensemble cast, and I think that the ensemble cast was a failing of some of the later series (not including ST:TNG). Star Trek has made alot of money, and has made George Takei rich. And that success comes from Bill Shatner understanding what Star Trek was really about, and I think that his co stars owe him a debt of gratitude.

181. I Love My Moogie - April 3, 2008

#176:
All a behind the scenes type drama would show is how The Shat looked after his underling actors & knew their artistic shortcomings which in turn put the heavier burden on him to carry TOS. Shat knew George couldn’t carry a Sulu centered story & would have the focus turned to Kirk for the good of the show.

182. Garovorkin - April 3, 2008

#179 such a movie would also deal with Roddenberry and his efforts to get the series made, I t would deal studio and Network politics, it would be more then just the cast it would be a reflection of the time and era that trek was produced in.

183. Canadianknight - April 3, 2008

I’d just like to go off-topic for a bit, and compliment Chris Doohan. You’re obviously cut of the same stuff as your Dad. Classy responses Chris.

I guess I’m in the minority, but I didn’t lose any sleep over Mr. Takei’s “bashing”. It was amusing, and Conan asked… I guess George could have refused to answer… but why bother at this point?

Hey, I love Kirk as much as the next Trek fan. Shatner, on the other hand… well… that’s a different story…

184. I Love My Moogie - April 3, 2008

#180:
And it would clearly show how Takei skipped out on the show & his castmates by leaving for most of the 2nd season in a futile attempt to jumpstart his film career.

185. Garovorkin - April 3, 2008

#182 other Then that John Wayne Vietnam movie and an appearance on the Six million Dollar man,Third Rock from the Sun and Heroes , I can’t recall to much else that he’s done in cinema outside of trek now that you mention it.

186. Jeffrey S. Nelson - April 3, 2008

Nimoy’s intro to the roast didn’t make it to the dvd. The only reason to pick up the dvd is to see Shatner’s Promise margarine ad.

187. Garovorkin - April 3, 2008

#183 sorry moogie two number typos in a row.

188. I Love My Moogie - April 3, 2008

#185:

Takei also did a Chico & the Man episode. Without question TMP-TUC somewhat rescued his modest career.

189. Petey - April 3, 2008

I’m glad that in over 180 comments, only some six people bothered to mention that it was Conan who was responsible for opening the floodgates by:

(1) Mentioning Takei’s “hatred” for Shatner
(2) Mentioning Takei’s role in the Shatner roast

Indeed, before these two topics came up, Takei seemed perfectly happy to talk about health and longevity and… fibre. *LOL*

It saddens me to know that certain readers will go out of their way to defend Shatner at the cost of trampling upon yet another brilliant actor in George Takei. From the perspective of one who has great respect and admiration for BOTH, it really is very painful to read.

190. Garovorkin - April 3, 2008

#189 Takei could have chosen not to discuss the matter on Conan,. All he had to say is Conan” I would really rather not delve into that topic, its past history” and Conan most likely would have let things drop. Takei instead decided to elaborate.

191. James R. Kirk - April 3, 2008

Star Trek XII: The Final Feud-tier

192. JoshC - April 3, 2008

181

Whoa. You’re joking right?

Who is Shatner to presume he knows the other actors shortcomings. That would be pretty darned arrogant and self absorbed.

I hope you’re wrong and he didn’t feel that way, or joking, because that would be obnoxious. And if it were the case I could see why Sulu can’t stand the guy.

For the record, I always wanted to see a Sulu centered storyline.

Besides, the actors just acted the material the writers gave them, Shatner had no say in how Takei affected a Sulu centered storyline.

193. sean - April 3, 2008

#178

I think someone already mentioned it, but they did do that film – it was called Galaxy Quest! ;)

#181

You can think of Shatner as you wish – personally I think he’s neither sinner nor saint – but it’s pretty outrageous (not to mention condescending) for you to insinuate Shatner was somehow acting in a ‘daddy’ role, and protecting the poor little peons from their own shortcomings. Neither you nor I nor Bill has ANY idea whether George could have carried a Sulu-centric storyline.

Critcising George for his outspoken hostility toward Bill is one thing, but it’s quite another to overcompensate by elevating Bill to God-like status.

194. Buzz Cagney - April 3, 2008

#193 we can certainly strongly doubt that Takei has enough to carry a Sulu based story.
He is a weak actor.
Bill is not a God- but he is certainly an iconic actor.

195. sean - April 3, 2008

#194

Based on what, exactly? People have raved about his New Voyages appearance (even though I’m not personally a fan of those), and he’s great in ‘Heroes’ as well. I certainly never saw anything in Trek that led me to believe he’d stink up the screen if given too much time. So again, what exactly are we basing this assumption on?

196. I Love My Moogie - April 3, 2008

#193:
The Shat said these things in old Starlog interviews during the 1980s. He said that ST was about Captain Kirk, how his character saves the crew and how he would point out to Roddenberry & Coon that certain Sulu or Chekov story advancing plots or dialog were better suited for Kirk. Since TOS is a classic, Shat was correct & made Trek what it is today. If Bill saw himself in a parental role towards the secondary cast, I think it shows his virtue, not his ego.

Takei’s other big grudge against Shat is that the great Starfleet helmsman Sulu got lost in the park during TFF, which he considered disrespectful to the character. This shows how petty levels Takei’s bashing of Bill.

The main issue is, the great James Doohan how disliked Shat refused to bash him on the radio no matter how hard Howard Stern pressed him, Takei should have showed the same class on Conan. ‘Nuff said.

197. Battletrek - April 3, 2008

I was against Takei at the beginning of this but the Shatner sycophants turned me around.

198. Dif - April 3, 2008

#195 Takei’s work outside of ST was mostly junk. It consists of guestspots and most of them were clearly due to his ethnicity and *not* what he brought to the part. I found his appearance in The Twilight Zone to be largely unmemorable. I doubt he would have the role on Heroes if he hadn’t been in ST. I can think of a lot of actors who started off doing guest appearances and bit parts in early tv shows who were much more talented and memorable – and they didn’t even go onto movies like Lee Marvin, Walter Matthau or Takei’s contemporaries on ST – Nimoy and Shatner. (To name a very very few.)

I always cringe at Takei-centric scenes in TOS. He has very limited range as an actor. He’s not particularly outstanding in Return of the Archons and he’s not outstanding in The Naked Time. And I say that because anyone could have played those parts – there was nothing that he brought to it personally that made them memorable. They were just “Sulu goes nutso with a sword” and “Sulu gets zapped and spaces out thanks to Landru”. The ‘memorable’ stuff wasn’t just due to the script, it was due to what each actor brought to the part – Shatner looked out for his character, Nimoy was very hands-on in his character’s development, as was Doohan. I’ve read/heard lots about Takei being turned down when asked for more lines or screentime, but very little about him personally coming up with any ideas himself. And during that time frame, and with a series like ST, it makes a big difference between who stands out and who doesn’t.

Doohan was also in several similar guest appearances and I thought he was extremely believable in his roles and definitely *very* talented. His voicework alone in the animated series was amazing.

I’ve yet to see or hear of Takei doing something memorable other than something related to ST or now, Howard Stern.

199. Shatner_Fan_2000 - April 4, 2008

I find George quite humorous. I’m glad Takei’s career is thriving, and I’m sure Shatner doesn’t lose any sleep over his comments.

re. #197: Not surprising that you’re so easily “turned around”!

Anthony … can you run anti-virus on the site? Trekmovie seems to have been infected by Battletrek again…

200. Jan - April 4, 2008

Shatner is self-ironic enough to stand such attacks! :-)

201. Iowagirl - April 4, 2008

#200
Not to mention self-iconic…;-)

202. Anthony Pascale - April 4, 2008

battletrek,
warning for trolling

203. Battletrek - April 4, 2008

Anthony how am I trolling any more than the Shatner groupies who burst onto any thread not Shatner related to continually remind us how great He is?

204. Anthony Pascale - April 4, 2008

by ‘labeling’ people you are trolling
second warning for trolling
three strikes and you are out
comments to http://trekmovie.com/about/feedback

205. Diabolik - April 4, 2008

I don’t get George… if he thinks Shatner’s acting “sucked…” shouldn’t he have liked it then? :)

206. Captain Amazing!! - April 4, 2008

Vile, vulgar & offensive.

Incidentally, George saying Bill’s acting sucks is like the pot calling the kettle black. At least Bill is entertaining no matter at what he tries his hand. George dubbed English dialog over Godzilla Raids Again & Rodan. That should tell you something.

For the record I’m a huge kaiju eiga fan…the original Japanese versions, not the horribly edited and dubbed English versions.

207. Garovorkin - April 4, 2008

In the acting profession I don’t think you can really label anyone a saint. Shatner could be a little bit of a diva on occasion, he was after all the star of the show and when that gets int to your head there is no living with you .He would get a little bit put off If he had fewer lines in script then Nimoy or the other cast members, He wanted to shine above the rest of the cast and Im sure the rest of the cast had their own share of individual hang ups and diva complexes as famous human beings often develop. There is a significant portion of fandom that believes that famous people can do no wrong,what they forget is these icons are very human and their flaws get magnified to the nth, once they have achieved fame. If enough people keep telling you how wonderful you are then you start to believe that you can do no wrong and you no longer worry about personel conduct toward fellow actors or your fans.

208. ensign joe - April 4, 2008

lol George should get a warning for trolling!! :)

209. David L - April 4, 2008

208 too funny

210. I Love My Moogie - April 4, 2008

#208:
You made my day, very funny, lol

211. sean - April 4, 2008

#196

Moogie, I don’t even know where to start with what you’ve said there, other than I’m starting to get a little worried about you. You aren’t sacrificing neighborhood children to your Bill shrine again, are you?

#198

I could say a lot of Bill’s work outside Trek is junk, too. His guest stints throughout the 70′s weren’t exactly showstoppers, and there are things like Kingdom of the Spiders & Loaded Weapon (not to mention a little film called The Final Frontier).

Now, that doesn’t make him a bad actor, by any means. It just means the body of his work is mixed (which isn’t such an uncommon thing). I think the same criticism can be levelled at George, though admittedly he hasn’t had a breakout role (Heroes is close) like Bill has with Denny Crane or Capt Kirk.

And again, I think part of his bitterness with Bill is he feels as though he squelched any chances he might have had to find that role. I have no idea if he ever would have, though I never found anything he did in TOS to be ‘cringeworthy’, as you apparently did. Still, if Bill did what he claims to have (and I’m not convinced of that, he seems to be fond of hyperbole) I can understand why many of the cast have found it difficult to bury the hatchet with him.

And that’s all. I don’t think William Shatner is the devil nor do I think George Takei is an angel. One is just a guy that might not have known how to treat his peers when he was younger, and the other has taken a perceived wrong to a level beyond where he should have. Hey, many of us have gone down those same roads, so it just makes them human after all.

212. Garovorkin - April 4, 2008

#211 I agree after The original run of trek his career went nowhere through much of the 70′s He did a guest spot on Hawaii 5-O. a made for tv dramatization dealing with the fictional Court Marshall of George Custer and Who can forget his sidekick Artemus Gordon wanna be in the short lived and forgettable Barbary Coast tv series, the more hokey then scary movie Terror at 37,000 feet, the absolutely atrocious Horror movie The Devil’s reign. Nobody really wanted him it seems, which was sad because the man can act, no question.It was Star Trek The Motion picture which put him back on the map, afterwards his career took off as never before.Without trek he might have vanished altogether and that happens all to often in the entertainment business.

213. Dif - April 4, 2008

#211 – I don’t find it “cringeworthy” – I just think anyone could have done the role(s). They could have stuck one of their red shirts in there and it would have been the same thing to me. What was memorable to me about the Sulu scenes wasn’t his prescence, it was what was going on – anyone could have gone around with a foil, anyone could have been zapped and acted stoned, anyone could have done it!

His acting was just very ‘bland’ to me.

Aside from Shatner, just about everyone managed to find lots of work doing something outside of ST, while it might not have been award-winning television – *they were getting hired*. *They were being approached.*

What really grates on me is Takei’s continuing whining and complaints about how he basically was screwed out of an acting career because of Shatner. Right. What about the other ‘guest spots’ he managed to get in? Why didn’t those series call him back? Why didn’t other casting directors want him? Probably because he has a limited range – trying to be serious, gazing in wonder, and now, raunchy humor (which still somehow manages to feel so stiff and forced!)

Perhaps I just can’t stand the whole drama thing – he comes across as one of those people whose important years of their lives were the ones spent in high school and nothing since has ever been close to topping those “glory days”. Sort of like the football player who was so popular but never got to be quarterback or the cheerleader who was so talented but that manipulative head cheerleader kept stealing the spotlight. Whatev.

214. Garovorkin - April 4, 2008

again Diva Celebrity Syndrome all of them.

215. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 4, 2008

#213—”What really grates on me is Takei’s continuing whining and complaints about how he basically was screwed out of an acting career because of Shatner”

Maybe I missed it, but I’ve never heard him say that. He is not the only one who complained of Shatner nicking scenes and lines, and even Shatner has admitted to that. If acting is your profession, how could such a thing not piss you off? I suppose that maybe if you take no pride in your job, it might not…Otherwise, it is a legitimate complaint, no matter how often it happens with other actors (“wrong” and “common” are nowhere near being mutually exclusive). The only story I hear him repeatedly address is the one about Shatner not being able to pronounce his name after 40 years, and in this case, such a telling was solicited by Conan (and it will likey continue to be solicited because of its entertainment value). It seems to me that the only people overreacting are those here defending Shatner and attacking George for having sore feelings over Shatner’s behavior.

216. Shatner_Fan_2000 - April 4, 2008

#215 … You’re getting yourself all worked up again. I think you, Bill, and George just need a big group hug.

217. Garovorkin - April 4, 2008

Look how many lines of comments this whole story has generated, it amazing that this has gotten all us worked up. If you stop and examine it, the Whole George vs Bill thing is really quite silly. The whole bill can’t pronounce Geoge’s last name is either disrespect or Bill really can’t say it the righ way, either way is a trivial issue at best, Now the whole issue of Wrath of Khan where Kirk was supposed to congradulate Sulu on his promotion to Captain, which Shatner supposedly got it taken out of the script, that could be considered a more serious issue of dispute between them, but still its a petty issue. IIts more about egos then preceived slights.

218. sean - April 4, 2008

#213

You had said Sulu-centric scenes made you cringe, so that’s where I was getting the ‘cringeworthy’ bit. If you think he’s bland, I understand, even if I disagree. I always thought he was a bright spot in Trek.

I remember one particular scene (albeit brief) between Sulu & Rand in ‘The Man Trap’, and how natural the conversation & general demeanor between the two characters was. You never really saw that again (Rand dissapearing in before Season 1 was even over), but it always stuck in my mind as a cool moment. Sulu seemed to embody the ‘everyman’ on the show, and had fewer moments of melodrama than some of his castmates. Again, I don’t think we’ll ever know, as it’s all a ‘might have been’.

In terms of his ‘whining’, think of it this way – for an actor, sometimes all it takes is that one big break. If you don’t get it, you don’t end up going anywhere. Shatner’s big break was obviously Boston Legal (Trek is there too, but it was a handicap as well), and without out it we have no idea if he’d have had the career he has now. Whether it’s true or not, Takei feels Shatner might have robbed him of that moment.

As for the other stars finding lots of work outside Trek…that’s debatable. They all suffered from typecasting. I don’t recall seeing Deforest doing ANYTHING after Trek, aside from half a dozen guest slots on TV shows over 30 years. Same goes for Nichelle Nichols, James Doohan, etc. Hell, that was the problem William Shatner faced after Trek, and it wasn’t until he turned that typecasting to his advantage that his career really started to boon. George is now doing something similar, so I do agree he needs to leave the Bill rants in the past and just embrace his present, even if I understand why he might not feel warm & fuzzy about him..

219. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 4, 2008

#216—Nothing about George Takei will ever get me worked up…

#208— While Bill’s behavior towards his co-stars on Star Trek may be old news to us, I think it is safe to say that most of Conan’s viewers knew little or nothing about what went on behind the scenes until George answered the question. Probably 75% of the viewers were hearing about it for the first time. It is not as if George is telling the same story to the same people all over again.

220. Garovorkin - April 4, 2008

Honestly after see Conan bit and reading the article and comments, i think the George and Bill deserve each other. This snipping is just flat out crazy, both of them are wealthy and successful and yet im seeing so much pettiness, its really sad to see this. Neither one of them wants to let go of past gripes, what good is any it going to do either of them in the long run?

221. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 4, 2008

#220–It is not about forgiving. According to George, that is done and he is over it. However, as long as George is looking to promote a project, and someone like Conan O’Brien wants him to come on and tell stories, that one will always come up. Why shouldn’t Takei use Shatner’s poor past behavior for his own benefit? IMO, Shatner deserves it, and the least he can do is look the other way (which he seems to do). Conan (or whoever else has that kind of exposure to offer) gets a laugh for his viewers, and George gets in a plug about his current work for the inexpensive price of having to tell that story one more time. Not a bad deal for Takei, and let’s face it—it is Bill’s fault that such a story exists (although I am sure Bill doesn’t care) in the first place.
This isn’t really an ongoing issue. It’s an old story that people (who have yet to hear it )find entertaining. That’s all. The truth is, if George were to go on the show and say that he’d rather not talk about it, who would want him on their show? It’s not as if he has a lot of stand-alone star power outside of Star Trek conventions! In Hollywood, you had better use what you have. Refusing to tell that story anymore would not be a wise marketing decision for Takei. That is the bottom line.

222. Iowagirl - April 4, 2008

#220
- George and Bill deserve each other. -

We all here obviously deserve each other, too.

I think we actually should stop the bashing ourselves (won’t happen though), let their private affairs remain theirs, and concentrate on TOS instead – its wonderful characters, the unique chemistry, and the magic.

Without Bill, Leonard and the wonderful gang we wouldn’t be here tonight, bitching merrily along.

Good night t’ya all.

223. JoshC - April 4, 2008

Moogie…

If Shatner stole storylines from other characters and by extension other actors, then they SHOULD bear a grudge and they should let the world know that someone could be so self-centered and distateful that he would opress the careers of his fellow actors to promote himself and then have the tenacity to say he was looking out for them.

Before Denny Crane, all Shatner was was Kirk … no one is impressed by Kirk being Mr. Priceline.

Before Heroes, all Takei was was Sulu. Neither have had overwhelmingly stellar careers. And if Shatner did in fact steal storylines from the supporting cast — then he got what he deserved because Takei probably would have gone farther.

I have a hard time believing what you say because I have a hard time believing someone could be that much of a scum bag. If you believe that was justifiable I too would worry about you.

Now “nuff”s been said.

224. Garovorkin - April 4, 2008

#221 #222 and 223 I agree enough said, Im done with this one myself. Remember one thing truth has thee sides, there Bill side, Georges side and then there is the actual truth. which none us will ever know for sure.

225. I Love My Moogie - April 4, 2008

#223: “Before Denny Crane, all Shatner was was Kirk … no one is impressed by Kirk being Mr. Priceline”

Shat made millions off his Priceline stock, I would say that is actually quite impressive!

Shat never stole storylines, he saw the underling cast members larger roles less supportive to advancing the story & the writers agreed to convert Sulu or Chekov dialog to Kirk. Shat is the actor who worked besided Spencer Tracy, not George or Walter & was much better trained as an actor to carry the weight of the show.

When George goes on these tired tirades about Shat, he like V’jer is behaving like a child & should be treated as such.

226. Anthony Thompson - April 4, 2008

What everyone seems to forget is that Nimoy, not Shatner, was the real star of the show, in the eyes of the audience in those days. Nimoy’s fanmail far eclipsed Shatner’s. If anyone “carried” the show, it was him. And Roddenbery had to have a discussion with Shatner during the first season about his low “likeability” numbers. ‘nuf said.

227. sean - April 4, 2008

I’m going to have to side with Iowagirl at this point. I know what you’re all saying to yourselves – ‘He’s what? Banana Oil!’. And it’s true.

228. Marlena Moreau - April 4, 2008

George, George, George. As the great Arnold Schwarzenegger once said, “STOP WHINING!”

229. Kat - April 4, 2008

I really doubt that Shatner was saying George’s name incorrectly on purpose. I mean, we’re talking about the same man who says “Gnatzi” and “sabotaaage” here. My grandfather, who coincidentally also grew up in eastern Canada, totally has the same problem. He doesn’t pronounce ANYTHING right, let alone Japanese surnames.

230. JoshC - April 4, 2008

Look, Moogie.

I like Star Trek, I like both Takei and Shatner. As you said, and I said before, Shatner made millions so did Takei. No one needs to rush to their defense because they’re living a heck of a lot more comfortably than the rest of us. All I’m saying is, if what you say is true and Shatner stole lines from other characters — then I find that that is qualification of a dirt bag. I’d like to say I lost respect for him for that but the truth of the matter is, I didn’t have any respect for him to begin with, he entertains me and that’s the end of it from where I stand. I enjoy his quirks and I enjoy his antics.

I don’t know what Takei’s training is. But I know Shatner doesn’t have a lot of training, he majored in business, and you know what … I think it shows. There’s a reason the audience was hysterical when Takei was making fun of Shatner, no matter his iconic status or the fact that he’s a legend, he’s still and always will be the butt of his own joke. And that’s why the man entertains me.

231. Iowagirl - April 5, 2008

#226

You’re right about the beginnings. Nimoy/Spock was already known from Cage and Spock’s alien nature obviously appealed more to them. But Roddenberry himself was eager to change that situation, as his memos and his elaborate correspondence with Isaac Asimov demonstrate (if you’re interested, you may check that out in Star Trek Creator by D. Alexander). Roddenberry wanted to correct that imbalance, as Kirk was equally important to him, and he saw a great capability in Shatner. And together they did manage to create that famous Kirk-Spock dynamic which is one of the most important engines of TOS. For me, that friendship and loyalty, greatly delivered by Shatner and Nimoy, always was the most important thing about TOS.

#230
- But I know Shatner doesn’t have a lot of training.. -

I wouldn’t say that classical theatre, Shakespeare plays, and Broadway productions, leading to the Most Promising Actor Award and the Theatre World Award is equivalent to “doesn’t have a lot of training”, but to each his own.;-)

Accordingly, Joe D’Agosta, ST’s casting director said about Shatner “As an actor, Bill was of a higher echelon, and hiring him was really a coup.”

BTW, in Shatner’s ST memories he’s talking quite openly about his “lapses”, but the picture we’re getting from his talks with GR about the scripts etc., and especially from his later talks with TOS’ “supporting” acts is, particularly with respect to Takei, a different one. Again, we weren’t there and we don’t know what the eventual truth is, but we shouldn’t forget that each coin has two sides, and we’re not the ones to judge.

232. ASC-1138 - April 5, 2008

you know, my first name is usually mis pronounced and I’ve made it an icce breaker/joke when meeting people for the first time.

Takei really does need to get a life. The man use to be classy, but has gone down hill. Enough with the explicit gay jokes. Ok, we get it, your gay! Do heterosexual people need to go around proclaiming “I’m Hetero, I’m Hetero”, all of the time? The licking of the lips after kissing the guy on stage was repulsive. Do you see Ian McCellan behaving this way George? Maybe you should take a lesson, that guy is a class act and an outstanding actor.

Try acting 1 tenth the caliber Shat acts, and maybe I’ll take you seriously. I was even hoping for an Excelsior series, but you’ve ruined that idea for me now.

Utterly disappointed and disgusted.

233. COMPASSIONATE GOD - April 5, 2008

Re: 109. star trackie – April 3, 2008

“Was it Shatner and Nimoy that forced the credits to feature only their names because they were the stars of the show? No.
Did Shatner and Nimoy force the writers to pen stories that revolved around the two stars of the show? Of course not.
Were the writers open to writing more for other characers? Yes, that much we know from the eventual expansion of the McCoy character and the addition of Deforest to the opening credits.

From everything I’ve read and heard, the supporting cast was never ever meant to be prominantly featured as “stars” to help carry the show. They were cast as window dressing with the intent to show diversity in the crew…and that is all. Except, of course, Walter, who was cast to cash in on the teen girls who loved Davy Jones.”

Good post!

You know, in the endless complaints tossed at Shatner, the bashers turn their reasoning off when the subject of a studio–a property–leading actors and how best to sell that property is the subject.

Toss all facts about business practices out of the window, just to bash Shatner.

Sandbox nonsense to be sure.

234. COMPASSIONATE GOD - April 5, 2008

Re: 231. Iowagirl – April 5, 2008

“You’re right about the beginnings. Nimoy/Spock was already known from Cage and Spock’s alien nature obviously appealed more to them. But Roddenberry himself was eager to change that situation, as his memos and his elaborate correspondence with Isaac Asimov demonstrate (if you’re interested, you may check that out in Star Trek Creator by D. Alexander). Roddenberry wanted to correct that imbalance, as Kirk was equally important to him, and he saw a great capability in Shatner. And together they did manage to create that famous Kirk-Spock dynamic which is one of the most important engines of TOS. For me, that friendship and loyalty, greatly delivered by Shatner and Nimoy, always was the most important thing about TOS.”

Agreed.

“I wouldn’t say that classical theatre, Shakespeare plays, and Broadway productions, leading to the Most Promising Actor Award and the Theatre World Award is equivalent to “doesn’t have a lot of training”, but to each his own.;-)

Accordingly, Joe D’Agosta, ST’s casting director said about Shatner “As an actor, Bill was of a higher echelon, and hiring him was really a coup.”

Strong, timely points. A side of the moronic comedic end of the media largely beats that (false) dead horse about Shatner’s acting (they–and a few bitter former co-stars), when the historical accounts prove the opposite. But, bashers care little about facts. Go figure.

235. New Horizon - April 5, 2008

I don’t see how George is Whining…Conan brought the subject up and made it the hot topic for the interview.

In any case, I worked professionally as an actor for over five years and in that time…I saw a few people like Shatner. It’s really stressful to work with self centered people like that…they think the world revolves around them and can easily convince themselves that what they’re doing is in the best interest of the show…and their co-workers. They’re not…and their behavior is often somewhat sociopathic, as they can easily manipulate, charm/convince others to do their bidding. Thankfully, I didn’t have to deal with those types for long…because they got themselves fired. I found a much more enjoyable line of work by being self employed as a graphic designer. I have respect for those who stick it out and put up with that kind of nonsense though.

236. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 5, 2008

# 233,234—-It is not “bashing” to point out things that Shatner himself has admitted to doing. Bill’s poor behavior is not in question. We all love Captain Kirk, but let’s seperate Bill the actor from Jim the Captain. #235 is absolutely correct. George is not whining. He simply answered the question that Conan asked. He told the story that the show’s producers invited him on to tell. In doing so, he got in a plug for his current work. Since you want to taught the “facts about business practices”, there is one of them there. I don’t see where anyone has “thrown them out the window”, to bash Shatner or to accomplish anything else.

Shatner’s approach to his career has been everyman for himself. That’s fine, but there are consequences to that approach in life, not the least of which is the fact that occasionally, some of that behavior is made public.

He nicked lines from co-stars. He intentionally tanked scenes centered on other characters. He also never paid Takei the respect (due any man) of pronouncing his family name correctly in 40 years of knowing him. And these are just the things which HAVE been made public. As Chris Doohan pointed out earlier in this thread, not everything has. What has been portrayed by some as “overreaction” on the part of George Takei, may actually be genuinely “restrained” in the greater context of the whole truth. Chris seems to believe that such stories and alleged beefs are a lot less nasty than they could be. For the most part, Shatner’s co-stars on Star Trek have been very restrained in keeping those issues private. But George’s feelings are his to do with as he pleases. Bill isn’t complaining about it. He knows he has been an ass. He also knows this business. He understands that such things have some entertainment value, and thus have, in turn, some marketing value for Takei. Bill doesn’t need or deserve defending on these issues. he seems more than content to take it in stride, even if he has to reap a little bit of what he has sewn.

237. I Love My Moogie - April 5, 2008

George had no issues attending Shat’s roast when someone was willing to point a camera at him. I think Takei has turned into a sad caricature.

238. COMPASSIONATE GOD - April 5, 2008

Re: 236. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) – April 5, 2008
“# 233,234—-It is not “bashing” to point out things that Shatner himself has admitted to doing. Bill’s poor behavior is not in question. We all love Captain Kirk, but let’s seperate Bill the actor from Jim the Captain.”

I’m talking about Shatner, not the fictional Kirk, and to address the following:

“Shatner’s approach to his career has been everyman for himself. That’s fine, but there are consequences to that approach in life, not the least of which is the fact that occasionally, some of that behavior is made public.

He nicked lines from co-stars. He intentionally tanked scenes centered on other characters. He also never paid Takei the respect (due any man) of pronouncing his family name correctly in 40 years of knowing him. And these are just the things which HAVE been made public. As Chris Doohan pointed out earlier in this thread, not everything has. What has been portrayed by some as “overreaction” on the part of George Takei, may actually be genuinely “restrained” in the greater context of the whole truth. Chris seems to believe that such stories and alleged beefs are a lot less nasty than they could be. For the most part, Shatner’s co-stars on Star Trek have been very restrained in keeping those issues private. But George’s feelings are his to do with as he pleases. Bill isn’t complaining about it. He knows he has been an ass. He also knows this business. He understands that such things have some entertainment value, and thus have, in turn, some marketing value for Takei. Bill doesn’t need or deserve defending on these issues. he seems more than content to take it in stride, even if he has to reap a little bit of what he has sewn.”

If he was as guilty as you are suggesting, then the segment about his relationships to the co-stars as coverd on the “Mind Meld” DVD (with Nimoy adding his own perspective not too dissimilar from Shatner’s) would have no need to exist. Clearly, the big two were treated and handled themselves in a way not shared (or intended to be shared) with the others.

Can anyone argue that a swiped line or scene from the supporting cast really altered the course and fate of their characters’ TOS (or TAS & TOS-movies) “lives?” Even in a fantasy timeline where the supporting cast had every scene as oiginally scripted, every bit of dialogue, there is no evidence pointing to the TOS–or franchise’s legacy playing out in any different manner.

Scenes and episodes deliberately written for Kirk and Spock (as performed by the respective actors) still would result in the characters’ global popularity. There’s no getting around that; it was the way TOS was structured, so in complaining, Takei seems unusally bitter over a situation he realized was DESIGNED for other actors.

Hypothetically, petty complaints of this kind would be no different than the James Bond actors behind the Q or Miss Moneypenny characters complaining about Connery, Lazenby, Moore, et al, for the same reason–when they all damn well knew the films were about BOND–with occasional support from the aforementioned characters…not the other way around.

239. sean - April 6, 2008

#238

The Bond comparison is pretty off base – How many people became a secretary because of Miss Moneypenny? Or a CIA agent because of Felix Leiter? Because I know many engineers, scientists & doctors that credit their career path to Scotty, Spock & McCoy. Martin Luther King, Jr. himself spoke of the importance of the Uhura character with Nicelle Nichols – a black woman on the bridge of a starship, sharing equal footing with her male co-stars, regardless of color. How many children in Japan or Russia were inspired to see former enemies sharing a common mission in the form of Chekov & Sulu?

Those characters – regardless of their screen time – were important, and not merely backdrops to the adventures of James T Kirk.

240. TrekNerd - April 6, 2008

Did anyone catch the comment Takei made about wishing his partner would do something as hard as Shatner does?

241. COMPASSIONATE GOD - April 7, 2008

Re: 239. sean – April 6, 2008

“The Bond comparison is pretty off base – How many people became a secretary because of Miss Moneypenny? Or a CIA agent because of Felix Leiter? Because I know many engineers, scientists & doctors that credit their career path to Scotty, Spock & McCoy. Martin Luther King, Jr. himself spoke of the importance of the Uhura character with Nicelle Nichols – a black woman on the bridge of a starship, sharing equal footing with her male co-stars, regardless of color. How many children in Japan or Russia were inspired to see former enemies sharing a common mission in the form of Chekov & Sulu?”

We’re not talking about influence OUTSIDE of the series; Takei’s rants focus on how his character was allegedly short-changed WITHIN the series by Shatner–how the Sulu character should have enjoyed more scripts and screen time. That’s a personal, entertainment career / character growth discussion, so the Bond supporting player comparison is on the mark.

“Those characters – regardless of their screen time – were important, and not merely backdrops to the adventures of James T Kirk.”

No one ever said they were backdrops, but again, the heart of TOS IS the relationship and point of view of Shatner’s Kirk and Nimoy’s Spock, (and in the long run, Kelly’s McCoy). Any continuing drama has its leads and supporting players; whether actor C resents his treatment is a dead issue, because many TV dramas work to create central leads to be the eyes and ears of the series–the vessel the audience uses to explore that fictional world. Shatner and Nimoy were that vessel for TOS, TAS and the TOS movies.

This is not a situation like 1966-67 series The Green Hornet, where star Van Willians argued in favor of his co-lead Bruce Lee to recieve more lines and screen time. In that case, it was more than justified, as Lee was the “other half” of the crimfighting duo–the actual stars of the series in every sense of the word. That was simply not the case on Star Trek where the SUPPORTING cast was concerned.

242. ensign joe - April 7, 2008

I’ve enjoyed reading these last several posts.

Thanks all.

243. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 8, 2008

#238—”Can anyone argue that a swiped line or scene from the supporting cast really altered the course and fate of their characters’ TOS (or TAS & TOS-movies) ‘lives?’ ”

I certainly can. If Shatner had not admittedly tanked the Sulu promotion scene in TWOK, the course and fate of Takei’s character would most definitely have been altered.

244. COMAPSSIONATE GOD - April 8, 2008

Re: #243 Mr. Poopey face,

Still, TWOK’s central plots–all having nothing to do with Sulu’s promotion–still carried the film, which is still considered the best Trek movie by far. All of that accomplished WITHOUT a minor sub-plot about a supporting character, which goes right back to any observations about TOS, and why Shatner and Nimoy were the necessary focus, whether by the hands of Roddenberry, et al, or Shatner (and/or Nimoy).

245. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - April 9, 2008

#244–But his “course and fate” go well beyond the boundaries of TWOK. Had he been promoted in TWOK, he would likely have had his own command in TSFS and certainly by TVH. Maybe Captain Sulu and the USS Excelsior could have even rescued Kirk in TFF after he allowed his ship to be hijacked by a crazy Vulcan in a hotel bathrobe!!!

You asked how it could/would have been altered. I say a thousand ways…we’ll never know, since the Shat took it upon himself to decide for everyone.

246. Ronnie - April 11, 2008

Just crude and rude. We don’t have the concept of ‘the Roast’ here in the UK, but we can take risque humour more than most (check out The Jonathan Ross Show). To do it properly though you need to be unscripted and natural. Here it’s obvious Takei is reading the whole thing and it’s just rubbish. If you ask me now he’s out and proud he’s decided to make up for lost time, but ironically he’s doing the gay community no favours at all with this crass nonsense, more likely to repel than appeal. As #232 says – take a leaf out of Sir Ian McKellen’s book and behave with some dignity.

247. bk - May 20, 2008

I’m pretty sure that shatner lacked the people skills of Leonard Nimoy, but George, get over it!

cripes

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