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Galactica Preview: Six of One April 11, 2008

by Staff , Filed under: BSG , trackback

[NEW FEATURE] There may be no new Star Trek episodes these days (excecpt TOS-R), but Ron Moore’s Battlestar Galactica is keeping it real for ‘space based’ TV series. A Trek fan favorite, the show features many Trek vets behind (and in front) of the camera and so for it’s fourth and final season will run a special preview for each Friday’s episode and also BSG news.

Airing tonight, April 11th at 10 PM (9 Central)

“Six of One” [Season 4 Ep. 2]
Synopsis: The Cylons learn that the Final Five are in the Colonial fleet. Some of the Cylons want the Cavil model to stop lobotomizing the Raider ships. Starbuck desperately tries to convince the others that the fleet is going the wrong way in their search for Earth.


Battlestar News of the week (some spoilers):

Moore on final cylon and DVD movies
Ron Moore revealed the final Cylon will be revealed “late in the season” and that it is “possible” there will be more direct-to-DVD movies (like Razor), but there are no current plans. More at Total Scifi

DS9 gave birth to BSG?
BSG supervising producer (and former DS9 writer/producer) David Weddle, talked to SyFy Portal about DS9 and BSG

I think ‘Star Trek: Deep Space Nine’ will be seen as a ground-breaking series that made ‘Battlestar Galactica’ possible. Ira Behr saw how ‘Deep Space Nine’ could be an unfolding, epic story. He kicked open a door for all of us and gave us a glimpse of what was possible. Ron Moore embraced this concept [and] applied it brilliantly in ‘Battlestar Galactica.’ Fans could easily look at BSG and DS9 like how fans of westerns of John Ford and Sam Peckinpah are viewed today.

Episode List
GalacticSiteRep has a spoilery list of upcoming episode titles.


1. Angry but i'll get over it - April 11, 2008

After the fourth season’s over, then what will be new?

2. Mike T. - April 11, 2008

It’s good to see someone giving Deep Space Nine some respect. I would really like to see direct to DVD’s of any of the modern Trek series like Stargate has done.

3. Cyberghost - April 11, 2008

they showed tonights episode early on which I didn’t watch. I wanted to wait to watch it on the big screen in hi def

4. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

The Caprica series? I do hope that this series is not going to end everybody dying that would be a real let down of an ending and it would dampen my desire to see the Capraca prequel series, What would be the point?

5. CmdrR - April 11, 2008

A synopsis of a trailer? huh? For people who find TV clips too challenging?

Anyway — glad to see BSG getting attention here. There are strong links with Trek. Plus, it’s just a well written show.

6. OriginalFan - April 11, 2008

Wgen I get onto a site about Star Trek that’s what I want to see. I don’t need updates on non-Trek garbage…especially this! You may as well change the name of the sit to SciFi part 2…

7. CmdrR - April 11, 2008

OriginalFan — with respect, is lightyears better than, despite limiting its scope. I don’t mind the addition. No one’s putting a frakkin’ phaser to your head to make you click. (There. How’s that for crossover?)

8. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

One of the problems that i have is people are saying this show is better then Babylon 5 and that is just not the case.Galactica is an execellant series but from a story telling standpoint It its not better then b5. It alos lacks the heart that Ds9 had.

9. Cyberghost - April 11, 2008

there are all kind of side stories they could tell, I just hope RDM does not soprano us at the end of the 4th season which he referred to as brilliant, I thought the end of sopranos stunk, but my guess on the 5th and final cylon will be starbuck, even though RDM said starbuck is not a cylon, but I bet he was referring to the first and dead starbuck, not the new one that came back from the dead, its a crappy way out, but that’s my guess.

10. Dom - April 11, 2008

OriginalFan, this site is dedicated to Star Trek, but part of its attraction for many readers is that it knows there is a world of other science fiction and fantasy out there that is watched by many Star Trek fans.

Indeed to be a Star Trek fan doesn’t mean it has to be your favourite series. You might like it, but be more interested in other stuff.

The day devotes itself to myopic geek scum is the day the majority of its readership will go elsewhere!!

11. ety3 - April 11, 2008

#8 – I don’t know what show you’re watching.

B5 was amateurish on many levels that distracted from the generally excellent story arcs.

DS9 was fantastic and certainly had great drama and heart, but I would in no way say that BSG lacks it.

12. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

#9 When Isee a rerun of Sopranos on I change the channel, the ending of that series was letdown of epic proportions ,there was nothing brilliant about that . I do hope Galactica avoids from that kind of Artsy ending.

13. ngl;sdb;ga - April 11, 2008

i just sneezed up something that was a better show than babylon 5

14. CmdrR - April 11, 2008

Garovorkin — B5 and DS9 were (are?) truly great. Both were also largely optimistic (although DS9 may certainly seem dark when compared to TNG.) BSG is dark chocolate baby. This is the gal you know you shouldn’t date, but you do and it goes all to hell just like you knew it would, but you wouldn’t change a thing and you’ll hurt forever.

As for endings, I think the predictions are hilarious, since RDM hasn’t held any straight lines since day one. My personal prediction: Galactica will reach Earth with the Cylons close on its aft. There’ll be a chance for reconciliation, then a final battle that totally destroys both sides. Cut to a small group of scientists in Roswell, NM in the 1950’s, watching a fireball hurtle to Earth. They follow the trail to a crater. There, at the bottom is a single perfect boob that once belonged to Six. One scientist turns to another and says, “We can rebuild this. What could go wrong?” Fade to black.

15. Cyberghost - April 11, 2008

an onion ring :-(

16. Anthony Pascale - April 11, 2008

in a poll we did last week 62% of TrekMovie readers said they watched (or were going to watch) the premiere of BSG season 4. That told me there is a lot of cross over. BSG is the best scifi show on TV today and is made by veterans of Star Trek. This site will run one story per week for the remainder of the season…that is 18 more stories mixed in with the hundreds of Trek stories we will run over the same period. Maybe we can get that number up to 80% and increase interest in this show.

Certainly if you are a fan of DS9, you should be watching BSG

17. Randy Holland - April 11, 2008

While the weekly “sci-fi media universe” round-up is fine, a concentration on BSG at this site just seems wrong. Like there isn’t anything to report on Trek, so we’ll talk about another show that some people like. Why not any of the other dozen or so shows that have a science fiction aspect to them?

If this site it going to shift its focus from *almost exclusively* Star Trek to *mostly* Star Trek, I will probably also shift my focus from checking it out at least daily, and instead wander in now and again to see if it has anything on Trek. Just like any other general SF site.

18. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

#11 Babylon 5 was well produced and well told. BSg has a number of problems. first off if you create something as dangerous as a Cylon, how is it that you dont put in shutdown codes or safety protocols to prevent the possibility of rebellion, second where did the Cylons get their ships from? and third off your fight a war with tactical nukes,what do nukes do to electronics? answer electro magnetic pulse would fry them. Also why would an technophbic societynetwork link their fighter with their mane computers< so that the cylons could easily disable them? Also how is it that the coloniels seem to have no anti virus protocals or software to deal with cylon virus attacks

19. j w wright - April 11, 2008

deep snore nine has nothing on bsg, or bab5

if it wasnt for bab5, ds9 would have been even more of a snoozefest, thank god for competition, it brings out the best

now, when is the starlost remake going to happen?

20. CmdrR - April 11, 2008

Garovorkin — the answer to most of your above questions is: Because Baltar was such a dang evil genius. He got around ALL of those protocols. As for “where did they get their ships,” there was an armistice (sp?) after the First Cylon War. The Cylons disappeared to a never-revealed homeworld and came up with… “a plan.” And ships. And a super-cute Sharon model.

BSG has fewer gaping holes in its logic than TOS ever did. Regardless, if you will ONLY accept perfectly logical stories, you’re limiting yourself to history, not sci-fi.

21. Cyberghost - April 11, 2008

Babylon 5 seasons 1-4 were great, but they had to wrap the storyline up quickly because of cancellation, season 5 was added because of fan reaction, I just wish MJS had time to tell his 5 year story in 5 years, not 4 and then a fifth season slapped on. Babylon 5 was a great show because of the arc, like BSG has, they are both great shows, with the exception of Bab 5 season 5. Its rare that sci fi fans are treated to shows of this caliber.

22. CmdrR - April 11, 2008

Done right, The Starlost would be awesome! (Wiki all the things done wrong for a good laugh-cry.)

I like ‘some’ of Bab-5’s season 5. Wasn’t “The Deconstruction of Falling Stars” a fifth season deal? Or was that the end of 4? “Sleeping in Daylight” was nearly as good. And the spooky one, “Day of the Dead” was worth the pain of some of the turkey eps.

23. Captain Dunzel - April 11, 2008

From Day One, was the “go to” site for Trek, easily surpassing my previous “go to” site, The baton passed early in the trekmovie life when started quoting scoops from

I still enjoy the retro reviews of, but the blog approach, the all points attack on all things Trek, and the general glee and sense of community that this site engenders, far outpaces anything else out there.

When says, “we’re gonna start providing some BSG content because 1) there’s Trek in its DNA and 2) you really should be watching this , then I say, bring it on. I trust, trust, trust you,

I also say, continue the continuation of brand extension and beam in more frackin’ sci-fi you think we’d be fools to miss. Because Gods know, there are plenty of we fools out here.

24. Captain Dunzel - April 11, 2008

By the way, Ellen is the final Cylon; she’s not really dead; and she’s been fracking with Saul the whole time.

And my evil brother believes that humans and Cylons return to Earth in time to place the latest human/Cylon hybrid in a certain manger about 2008 years ago.

25. Sebastian - April 11, 2008

#13. Very funny; I was going to say it came from another orifice, but ‘sneeze’ worked! Tried to get into B5, but the sterility and car-commercial acting (at least in the early years; re-watch the pilot sometime) put me off….just my opinion; please put your weapons down, any B5 fans out there! And #16, Anthony Pascale; thank you for the democratization of this Trek site! I love Trek (esp. TOS and DS9) and I very much love BSG. It’s like DS9, but without some of the limits of the Trek universe (ships stay damaged; wars inflict very real casualties; not some poor red-shirt). And it’s wonderful that opinions EVERYWHERE can be heard (agreed with or not). And I look very forward to tonight’s BSG (even my non-sci fi friends get into it! Makes for great viewing parties!).

26. Idolwild - April 11, 2008

You guys are WRONG. President Roslin is totally the final Cylon – remember the Three’s line, “My forgiveness – I had no idea”, I think only Roslin would have produced that reaction from her.

I’ve always been a Trek fan, but BSG is of a more consistent higher quality than Trek ever was.

Flame on!

27. Stanky McFibberich - April 11, 2008

re: 6. OriginalFan – April 11, 2008
“Wgen I get onto a site about Star Trek that’s what I want to see. I don’t need updates on non-Trek garbage…especially this! You may as well change the name of the sit to SciFi part 2…”

I agree. Stick to Star Trek…even that movie thing.

28. THX-1138 - April 11, 2008

Anthony! (and staff)

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!

BSG is my favorite TV show. With all due respect to Garo, in my opinion it is at least the best science fiction show ever. Another answer about the ships, Garo, is that the ships ARE Cylons. Like in all sci-fi shows involving machines becoming self-aware, the Cylons probably over-rode their safety protocols as they understood and took over their own programming. The natural progression of events could lead one to presume that they also began to question their place in the universe and their relationship to the Great Architect of the Universe.

For the people who don’t get it, if you’ve seen it and don’t like it, that’s one thing. But to dismiss it out of hand without seeing it is really doing yourself a disservice. I think time will show that this series was a very special thing indeed.

29. THX-1138 - April 11, 2008

And you are all wrong. Adama is the final Cylon. That one Cylon, Leonov (was that his name?) told Roslin in season one.

30. Green-Blooded-Bastard - April 11, 2008

I would love to see a big-budget BSG movie in the theaters.

31. Idolwild - April 11, 2008

THX: Leoban was his name – Leonov was the USSR ship in 2010 :)

And no, totally Roslin!

32. Mike - April 11, 2008

Thank you THX-1138… totally agreed.

33. j w wright - April 11, 2008


34. Dennis Bailey - April 11, 2008

#11: “B5 was amateurish on many levels that distracted from the generally excellent story arcs.”


The story arcs themselves were rather a bit of a snooze. “Get out of our galaxy!” LOL

35. j w wright - April 11, 2008

dunno why, but my posts havent been, posting…


#22 yeah, it should have been done right in the first place, it would have ranked up there with ufo, space 1999 and star trek

there was one excellent episode with john calicos AND barry morse… the contrast between the two actors couldnt have been more apparent

john far out-hammed anything shatner could have done, and barry was impeccable

for historic interests (i cant resist vintage sci-fi) the episodes are worth adding to any collection, i got them (what was available) on vhs, i bet they’re on dvd now…

heres a good starlost page for any youngsters unfamiliar with it, to learn more:

friday trivia time!

anyone remember ‘space academy’ with john harris? can anyone name the star trek connection to that show?

36. star trackie - April 11, 2008

I really don’t get the attraction of this show. It has one of the most un-likable, un-appealing, depressing cast of characters I’ve seen in awhile. The acting is top notch, as is the production… but these characters are the last bunch of humanoids I want to spend an hour with. It gets a D, for D-pressing.

And the soap pera style story telling is just that. Some think that because it uses story arcs and has them hooked that it is the best thing since sliced bread. But really, that style of storytelling that has been used to get people involved in TV and radio shows since the sands poured down the hourglass… and, admittedly, it can be, and often is, very habit forming. But that doesn’t make it great storytelling.

Oh well. A lot of folks enjoy it. I don’t get it but more power to em.

37. boJac - April 11, 2008

Here’s how it’s going to end:

The cylons are gonna get wiped out a jump away from Earth, then, when the fleet enters orbit and everyone celebrates, it just explodes. Like Krypton. Then they all get lost in space. That would be hillarious.

38. Doug - April 11, 2008

ooooh, I know…I know!
Jonathan Harris was in Space Academy, and if you look closely at the shuttles from that show you see the exterior is borrowed from the front exterior of the land vehicle in “Ark II” which also had Jonathan Harris as a guest star several times. Ark II also had an episode with a very very young Helen Hunt, who later starred with Bill Paxton in “Twister”. Bill co-starred with Sigourney Weaver on “Aliens”, who we all know was also in the first two “Ghostbusters”. “Ghostbusters” starred Dan Akroyd and Bill Murray, both Saturday Night Live alumni…which is also where William Shatner did his infamous “get a life” sketch. That connection?

39. THX-1138 - April 11, 2008


Thank you for being an intelligent person who can put into words their reason for not liking BSG. I may be a bit on the fanatical side for the show, but I can appreciate a differing point of view. If only more people could express themselves as well when they don’t like something.

40. Ron Mosher - April 11, 2008

This Trek fan is not a fan of this show.

41. CmdrR - April 11, 2008

re: Space Academy, I was gonna say its was back-to-back with ST TAS on Saturday mornings, when I was a lad.

42. j w wright - April 11, 2008


close… wow! might be time to switch to decaf!


nah, its the actress pamelyn ferdin, who was in the episode ‘and the children shall lead’

who was that red headed kid? he really creeped me out…

and i am certain i read that harve bennet himself actually provided voice talent as some sort of computer on that show as well!

43. Gary the Gorn - April 11, 2008

I’m a huge Star Trek fan and I just started watching the new BSG last week. I recorded a marathon they had the SciFi a couple of weeks ago. All the episodes were from season one. I started checking out BSG because of this site.

The show is starting to grow on me. Much like DS9. I did not like it at first but after about 6 or 7 episodes it is getting fun to watch. Better the Stargate and Stargate Atlantis. I did not like the new Flash Gordon Sci Fi had on. Seemed too low budget.

Any other suggestions for good “New” Sci Fi. My DVR is waiting.

44. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

#25 Sabastian Admitably the acting did have a few dead spots but overall i think in terms od story telling with its 5 year B5 Tops.BSG Look no scif is perfect but I thin k Strazininski overall did better job laying out his series then Ron moore.

45. Cousin Itt - April 11, 2008

DS9 is definitely the father of BSG. Not to mention what RDM wanted to do with Voyager. Lets see…

Enemy hidden among humans that look human? Check.
Special test to find enemy hidden among humans? Check.
Constant wondering who’s human and who’s an enemy. Check.
Major focus on religion? Check.

Grungy ship running out of resources trying to find Earth? Check.
Battle between military and non-military. Check.
Really bad acting? Oh wait, that was just Voyager.

BSG has definitely evolved beyond where it was, but in the beginning I thought it was just a Trek retread disguised in a different package.

46. CmdrR - April 11, 2008

OK, if we’re on this road…

BSG gets points for speechifying.
The writing is there, plus Olmos can really deliver the goods.
Contrast that with the gawdawful “baby gizelle” speech from Enterprise… or the level of “pecked to death by ducks” writing in Voyager.
I give DS9 high marks, as well, in this department. And eps of TNG AFTER the gawdawful first season.

47. Sebastian - April 11, 2008

#31. You are right; and the fictional spacecraft Leonov was named after the very real, first man to walk in space, cosmonaut Alexei Leonov! A real hero. As for the folks on this thread who don’t like BSG; you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. I just know that people in my life who HATE sci-fi wind up LOVING BSG. So, if nothing else, it has (in my experience) brought a lot of non-geeks into the fold. And that’s always a good thing! Yes, BSG is dark and potentially depressing (on one level). But it holds our world to a dark mirror and asks a lot of probing, burning questions. For those who DO take the time and warm up to it, it is often the most rewarding hour of the week as far as entertainment goes; and that includes a LOT of movies I’ve seen lately, too! Whether it’s all planned in advance or not (like B5 was/is) I couldn’t care less (B5 always felt a little “over-starched” to me). Bottom line is; all my friends and myself enjoy it very much and it will be much missed after 2009!

48. Michael Hall - April 11, 2008

Well, tastes can certainly differ. For mine, “Babylon 5″ was an admirable attempt at long-form SF storytelling for television. Few, if any, other shows bear so strongly the mark of their creators’ vision. It certainly has its place in SF and TV history. But I also often found the dialogue excessively cheeky, the production values chintzy, the storytelling muddled. And while Stryzinski’s long-range planning for the series was admirable, bear in mind that external realities still forced many changes upon him, including the replacement of his first-season lead and much of the show’s direction in its final year. The structure of BSG has been much looser, but in many ways that’s turned out to be one of its greatest strengths.

(You might be interested to know, Garovorkin, that in addition to his brief cameos on the show Harlan Ellison had agreed to write a script for B5 that would have also served as a sequel to his famous “Outer Limits” episode “Demon With a Glass Hand.” They had even gotten Robert Culp to agree to guest-star; unfortunately, Ellison never came through with the script.)

When BSG is on its game, it’s simply one of the best shows in TV history, period. And even when it’s not, it’s still mostly worth an hour of your time.

49. Sebastian - April 11, 2008

And as for #43; Gary the Gorn (love the name!), if you liked BSG; have you ever seen “Firefly”? They are so similar in production design they could almost be in the same universe; in fact a Firefly ship makes a cameo in the BSG pilot mini-series (in a window in the doctor’s office on Caprica). A short lived, but brilliant show! Another sci-fi show for non sci-fi fans! The movie sequel, “Serenity”, is a nice wrap up, but the series is more involving! Just a recommendation. Hope you like it.

50. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

#34 you really haven’t seen much science fiction have you to make that statement ? LOL

51. Commodore Lurker - April 11, 2008

Defracking . . .
THX my friend, I’ve been nipping at the internet viewing edges of BSG, and I’m totally enthralled. I see Adama as the Final Cylon also, and that’s the problem.
As a writer, I find Adama too obvious a choice for the Final Cylon. With the twists of this group of writers, it has got to be someone else.

52. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

First of Without Babylon 5 there would be no BSG and Ds9 would not be the show that is is. Those of you that are calling it crude and amateurish really don’t know what the hell you are talking about. If you judging it by its special effects remember in the early 90s computer power and graphics was not at the level it is today, considering what they had to work with a the time quite extraordinary actually he also had to put the show on the united paramount network which supported that piece of crap voyage series over his.This show gave trek its first real scifi competition and it forced trek to ramp up its own story telling, in other words what B5 did Ds9 followed suit and also remember one other thing Strazininski pitched this concept to all of the studios. Babylon 5 story tell, its intrigues,mysteries and battles. The 5 year story arc is so far beyond BSG its not funny, Yeah BSG won a peabody award but so what.. Some of B5 acting was spotty but so was at time Galactica. Im not taking away completely from BSG it does have some very challenging and intriguing themes and ideas.

53. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

#28 THX -1138 and #22 CmdrR and #48 Micheal Im sorry I am very passionate about Babylon 5 and I really cannot be objective about this subject as well, People are B5 and it really burns me up that so many dismiss the great show. BSG is great showbut in my opinion not in the way that Babylon5 is.In terms of over all structire Strazininski though thingso ut with such elegance considering the difficulties that he had to deal with.

Micheal I remember it was supposed to be called Demon On The Run, Simon Trent on B5 that would have been freaky. I remember Harlans Cameo role as a psycop, that was cool. Koenigs’s character was named after scif Great Alfred Bester I loved that bit, he had bit of an influence on that show.

54. ulicqel - April 11, 2008

While BSG may not be relavant to the new movies, its revelant to star trek becasue its Ron Moore’s show. Its not all that complicated. I loved DS9, and its good to be informed about what most of that crew moved on to.

55. Cyberghost - April 11, 2008

anyone who has not seen BSG, do yourself a favor and dont just jump in, start by watching the miniseries, the show has a beginning a middle and soon a end. With a great show like BSG, it must be watched from the beginning, after u watch the mini series with an open mind and are older than 16, you will be hooked.

The show has won about every sci fi award there is….. The show has rewatchable qualities that very other shows have, if you watch from the starting point.

If you have not seen the show, do yourself a favor and watch, then enjoy.

56. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

BSG who is the 5th Cylon, that should be interesting, It not likely not be be one of the main characters. Its curious n the last episode Six claimed that she could sense the 5 being a Cylon that has a certain logic to it. But when Anders and Chief Tyrol were in the landing bay and Sharon a Cylon walked right up to them how come she could not sense what they were. If six could then logic say’s she should have been able to as well.

57. steve623 - April 11, 2008

“myopic geek scum” – wow, Dom, that’s kind of harsh.

58. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

Ander himself went into battle stared down the Cylon and cause the whole fleet to break of its attack, so this beegs the question of who’s side and where do the final five really stand in all this. They are all their own person yet we know that this does not mean anything, key in on Colonel Ty’s projectiion dream fear scenario of him suddenly going boomer on comander Adama, ther may possibly be a duel conscience with in all of them observing and probably waiting for the right circumstance to activate and take over. If such a underlying persona exists then its so far embeded in them that they are not consciencely aware of it. So at a waking level they don’t know really what they are about. We really don’t know whose side they are on and its also facintaing that for some reason all the other models do not know the identities of the five which suggests that they predate the Cylons. ITs curious that you have the final five in the cylons case and the temple of the five for the coloniels, a very disturbing coincidence if you ask me.

59. boJac - April 11, 2008

That’s exactly how I started watching it. Before a couple weeks ago I had only seen like 4 episodes. They confused the hell out of me. Then I read some stuff on the internet and watched most of the third season and now I’m hooked. Trekmovie was the reason I started watching it in the first place. Now I’m trying to get my friends to watch it with me so I can have someone to discuss stuff with.

Thanks for another notch in my nerd belt,!

60. Commodore Lurker - April 11, 2008

Defracking . . .
Garovorkin my friend. I stand in total support of you on Bab 5. I actually missed several seasons of DS9 and Voyager because of time conflicts with Bab 5. As an obnoxious Super-Trekker it pains me a little to admit that. So be it.
I have frequently argued that Bab 5 was the greatest TV series of all time. A good knockdown drag-out always ensuses with fellow Trekkies, Gunsmokers, and MASHites
With what little I’ve seen of BSG, I think it rates with the Trek saga and Bab 5. I think we are all lucky to live in such a Sci-Fi rich time. But, then again we do because of money spending fanatics like us.

61. Josh - April 11, 2008

Thanks for covering BSG…its my favorite show on TV right now.

62. Ron Mosher - April 11, 2008

Hey Anthony if your taking time for this then why not do some stories about Stargate? Both Atlantis and the new series in the works(Stargate Universe) not to mention the movies that have been made. I find them to be far superior to BSG.

63. Spock Jenkins - April 11, 2008

Please take off news about BSG, this is the second Star Trek site that has decided to heavily deal with Galactica ( the other being ). A site called Trekmovie should deal with all things TREK and related to Trek ( okay, I know Ronald D. Moore was involved with DS9 ).

There are literally thousands of unmined Star Trek related items articles that could continuously be written about without needing to explore the goings-on of some other sci-fi space show. It gives the impression that ‘Trek-Movie’ doesn’t believe in its own premise.

Please remove all BSG related items, or file under the miscellanious sci-fi news items – it doesn’t need a week-by-week dedicated article.

If I see Katee Sackoff’s grinning mug one more time, I’m gonna scream!!
It seems I can’t even get away from that new BSG rubbish even on a Trek site – supposedly THE Trek site at that.

64. Michael Hall - April 11, 2008

So what did all of you B5-fanatics wind up thinking of last year’s direct-to-DVD movie? Have to admit that while I did enjoy returning to JMS’ universe, and that the CG recreations of the original sets worked better than expected (probably because I didn’t think too much of the original production design to start with), I found the whole affair pretty claustrophobic and the plot of the first segment damn-near incomprehensible. (Still, if a second DVD is released I’ll probably wind up getting that one as well, since I do appreciate Stryzinski’s commitment to producing thoughtful, literate SF.)

Now, Razor, while not without its flaws–that was a great made-for-DVD release.

65. Dory - April 11, 2008

Hello fellow trekkies!

Anyhoo, I just want to throw my two cents in this epic discussion of the various sci-fi shows we all know and love.

I can easily how Weddle’s comment that DS9 providing some of the long-term story telling applies in supplies the long term DNA for BSG. I also agree with Michael Hall’s views on B5– in that its story arch was certainly admirable but lacked something in its execution. Watching B5 felt like it had the pace and writing of a novel where you expect and you keep flipping through pages waiting to find out what happens next and you could expect to fill in the action somewhere in your imagination. Something gets lost in the translation of watching people act out this type of story in hour-long installments each week (or marathon sittings, thats to be expected too ) on a television. Likewise, some of the more common trappings of poorly done tv (odd dialogue, stiff acting, gimmicky design) didn’t help either. I think that BSG is more successful in applying a long term story to a weekly television format.

Now that I’ve probably offended all you B5 fans, I also want to say that I totally appreciate what its like to be a passionate fan of such a tv show (otherwise, I wouldn’t be lurking around a site called I can put up dating a die-hard b5 fan cause I can appreciate the sci-fi fandom. One thing I love about sci-fi fandom in general is the diversity of the sci-fi series that have been produced. You can always expect each sci-fi show to be weird and different (not all trek clones… usually), and you are free to like/dislike them as you please based on personal tastes. I totally agree with Lurker that we are lucky to be living in a “sci-fi rich time.”

On a side note, anybody think Dualla is the final fifth cylon?

66. weeharry - April 11, 2008

i watched the mini series when it was first on in the uk and didn’t really get into it, never watched the subsequent 3 series despite hearing good things about it. very recently decided to give it a go to see what the fuss was about – totally hooked! i loved the first series in particular, and have now watched the whole lot up to the first episode of series 04 in a very short period of time.

i think when the miniseries first aired i was a bit sentimental about the old show as it was part of my childhood, but am very glad i gave it a chance – some of the most compelling viewing on telly just now regardless of genre and watched, i believe, by more than the “traditional sci-fi fan” – aren’t there some people running around in california trying to achieve the same feat just now?

i agree with the earlier post that said for best results you should watch from the start, but if you only watch one episode to have a look, my personal favourite is called ‘Flesh and Bone’ (series1 episode 8) which if i recall should stand alone pretty well

67. Ian B - April 11, 2008

The thing that got me was- Starbuck says she’s been to earth and seen fluffy clouds and the like, and the Moon and Saturn, yet she didn’t drop down below the cloud deck and look for cities, people, that kind of stuff? Wouldn’t that be what everyone is interested in?

Why didn’t anyone ask her about that?

Final Cylon is looking like Roslyn, if it’s not Starbuck.

I love the series to death. It’s the best sci-fi around at the moment, the perfect sci-fi for our time, just as TOS was the perfect sci-fi for the late 60s and B5 was the perfect sci-fi for the 90s. But I’m a little nervous regarding how it’s going to end up; I’m praying it’s not “they land on Earth in ancient times and the descendents of humans and cylons become us”, because that would be really rather cheesy.

68. Dom - April 11, 2008


Yeah, it can seem kinda harsh, but Trek fans who exaggerate their hobby to the extent that they get pissed off at a website for dealing with non-Trek material and go to Patrick Stewart’s performances of Hamlet in TNG costumes are exactly the sort of people that Trek doesn’t need if it’s to be relevant to normal people!!!!

69. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

#64 Michael I would give the B5 movie a B, not perfect but worth the time, It was good to see the familiar characters r and the old station again. I am hopeful that the second movie is better though. It is sad that both Andreas Katsulas and Richard Briggs are no longer with us they were both wonderful actors and the characters they played unforgettable. Kasulas G’gar especially ,he was trulylarger then life.

70. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

#63 and why can’t we have some non trek news? this may be a trek related website but trek is by definition science fiction, you can’t isolate trek from the rest of the scif universe. Beside a lot of people here like occasionally talking about no trek science fiction. a change once in awhile won’t hurt the site at all.

71. steve623 - April 11, 2008

“Yeah, it can seem kinda harsh, but Trek fans who exaggerate their hobby to the extent that they get pissed off at a website for dealing with non-Trek material and go to Patrick Stewart’s performances of Hamlet in TNG costumes are exactly the sort of people that Trek doesn’t need if it’s to be relevant to normal people!!!!”

Well, there have always been Star Trek fans who seem to orbit on the fringes of normality, yet Star Trek has been relevent to a lot of people for a long time. I assume you consider yourself a “normal person” and you haven’t been put off by people wearing costumes to Hamlet or to jury duty. There seem to be a lot of fans who are embarrassed by the Trekkie stereotype and are kind of desperate for Star Trek to seem “cool” to “normal people”, whatever that means. I just think marginalizing people who like Star Trek, on a Star Trek website, who may be off-putting to a segment of the popular culture, isn’t the best way to go. Maybe I’m wrong, but I am generally content to let Star Trek fandom be what it is – good, bad and ugly. But I definitely think referring to people as “myopic geek scum” is taking it too far. Geek, for sure. Mypoic, in your opinion. But scum? I just don’t see where that anger comes from.

72. Thorny - April 11, 2008

DS9 and BSG both had radical shifts midway through their respective runs.

– DS9 brought in Worf and a lot more action, and became a better series because of it.

– BSG had its instantaneous one-year-later leap ahead, and has been in decline ever since, both creatively and in the ratings.

I really enjoyed BSG in the first two seasons, especially the early first season, which was essentially one long episode taking place only over a few days of real time. But I became very bored with the planet-bound episodes of early Season 3, after the “one year later” shark-jump. If I want to watch Stalag 17, I’ll rent Stalag 17.

I still watch BSG, usually thanks to TiVo season pass, but I’m not very excited about it, and “Razor” was relentlessly uninteresting. “Caprica” I might sample, but what’s the point… we already know how it’s going to turn out.

73. starfleetmom - April 11, 2008

I love the crossover stories! In some cases…like the death of Kamel….I didn’t realize he had even been on Trek, but I’m a big Monk fan. I love to see the links between shows…actors, writers, directors, producers, FX guys, whatever….there seems to be a Trek connection in just about everything Sci Fi, Fantasy or Comic! In many cases Trek was the door that opened for many careers.
As for BSG I thought is was so cool when Ensign Ro turned up and was an Admiral with bigger balls than Adama! Ha!
Sometimes SciFi Channel runs Outer LImits back to back on Mondays and I record them for times like this when almost nothing is on. I love seeing Trek actors and Stargate actors in those episodes. It’s almost more fun to try and identify all those crossovers than to watch the story. :0

74. Karlore - April 11, 2008

Seasons. In America we call them seasons.
Frakin British…

75. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

BSG would not have survived a year on any of the big 4 networks because simply put this show would not generate the kind of numbers that shows like CSI and ER and Lost generate. They were lucky o get 4 seasons on the scifi channel. Caprica may not happen as a series with the decline in Galactica’s numbers the scif channel my not be willing to commit money or resources to it.

76. Sebastian - April 11, 2008

Just saw tonight’s BSG; it took a while to fire on all thrusters, but the second half hour was great. To all those who don’t watch BSG, you’re missing something special. And a thank you,again, to Anthony Pascale for denying the naysayers and giving news on ALL science fiction; good or bad (a point of view, really). And if this site only reported on Trek, it’d be a very limited “free forum.” And if there were news on a new B5 (which I’m not a fan of) or even a Space:1999 project (doubtful, but hey…why not?), I know where I’d go for my “rumor control.”

77. SciFiDrive - April 11, 2008

Hello Trekmovie!

The new BSG is a welcome addition to SciFi TV I hope more well written SciFi shows are developed there’s a demand that needs to be satisfied.

Love how BSG has been revamped. Hope for the best in the years to come.

78. yo - April 11, 2008

34> [re: B5] “Get out of our galaxy!” LOL

… reminds me of “By Any Other Name”:
“The galaxy isn’t big enough for both of us.”
“Sorry, this galaxy is already occupied.” lol

79. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

Well this episode seems to answered my question about the How the Cylons could have rebelled., simply put some damned fool(Caprica ) helped them, looks like they have become the latest victims in the cycle of repeating history, remember the old adage” it has happened before and it will happen again,’ and on tonight episode it just did. The Cylons got a taste of their own medicine. I think this will bring about a coming together of both the Human Model Cylons and the the Coloniels. It will be most entertaining to see how this situation works out. I still think that both coloniels and cylons are actually to groups of machines and that the humans if any are the ones that comprised the 13th tribe that made it to earth.

80. Garovorkin - April 11, 2008

correction 2 damned fools helped them Caprica 6 and Boomer.

81. sean - April 11, 2008


Actually, if you recall Boomer sided with 1, 4 & 5, not the 6’s. They were on opposite sides. And Caprica 6 is on Galactica, so she had nothing to do with it.

Though interestingly all the 8’s (Sharons) were missing from that final confrontation between the 6 and the Centurions. Wonder what that means? And why does Cavil know so much more about the Final Five than all the other numbers?

Also, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this is the first time it’s been confirmed that there are ‘millions’ of each model (as per Cavil’s line), and that Cavil, Simon & Dural’s actual model numbers are 1, 4 & 5, respectively. It also raises the question as to why the Final Five are in sequential order EXCEPT Sharon. Plus, the 7 models would appear to be ranked in near-chronological order according to age (Dean Stockwell being the oldest and # 1, down to Grace Park & Tricia Helfer’s almost identical ages as #’s 6 & #8).

82. sean - April 11, 2008

And actually, it could be that #6 is the midpoint, and at that stage the Cylon age’s began to reverse.

So it would go oldest to youngest for model’s 1-6 – Cavil, Leoben, D’anna, Simon, Dural & Caprica…then youngest to oldest for models 7-12 – Seven, Sharon, Tory, Anders, Tyrol & Saul. Maybe? Tory could be #7, and then who knows where the final Cylon fits in the age cycle.

Yes, I realize the fact that I’ve given it this much thought makes me a nerd of galactic(a) proportions! ;)

83. Ryan Spooner - April 12, 2008

When you post videos on to this site, can you please remember that is read by fans all over the world and using video hosting sites that only work in the US does a very good job of annoying alot of your users!

84. Garovorkin - April 12, 2008

#82 Interesting I never thought of that one, might be clue as to who the final Cylon is maybe? The situation for th Cylons is ironic, they wanted to achieve humanity and they have, complete with their own machine rebellion. The way things were going from a story stand point, a Cylon civil was was inevitable at some point. It has happened before and it will happen again so things seem to go, I don’t think that things in end are bode well for either human or cylon

85. Garovorkin - April 12, 2008

#60 Commodore Lurker thanks for the support on B5 .What People don’t realize is how important and significant Babylon 5 truly was, it raised the bar not only for science fiction on television, but on television as a whole. As i said before, It forced Star trek to get get better. Yes Battlestar Galactica no doubt owes a debt to Deep space nine, but it owes an even bigger debt to Babylon 5 as do shows like Lost. B5 successful run of 5 seasons showed that long story complex story arks could work on television. I know B5 did not pull huge ratings but it got to five seasons, something that BSG won’t be doing.

86. [The] TOS Purist aka The Purolator - April 12, 2008

I’m one Trek fan who doesn’t like the new BSG. It’s baloney, pure and simple, in my opinion. Melodrama, overacting and forced drama really give it a cheap, overly-serious nature that’s just a joke. What’s even more of a joke are its overzealous attempts to achive “realism,” which just means creating cheap intensity by shaking the camera around and by adding a lot of gritty violence and graphic sexuality. Oh yeah, and they don’t use energy weapons because that’s somehow “unrealistic,” while faster-than-light travel totally is, of course. What Ron Moore in his infinate fan-appointed wisdom doesn’t seem to realize is that his show will look incredibly, laughably dated in a decade or so, since the planets and such look EXACTLY like today. The new BSG has none of the timeless qualities that gives any classic sci-fi a soul, like TOS or the original BSG. It lacks any elements that would give the viewer a grand, enjoyable, memorable yet intellegent outer space adventure. Oh, it makes some people feel smart to watch it because of the nitty-gritty elements to it, but when you come right down to it, the show stinks.

87. Garovorkin - April 12, 2008

# 86 Purist are you aware that the original Star trek is on TV land? BSG though not without it’s flaws. Has far better writing then trek ever had., you want to talk jokes lets look at the crap that was season 3 of the original series or the crap that was almost the entire run of Voyager. BSG is far more realistic and better acted then just about every thing trek ever did.

88. sean - April 12, 2008


Garovorkin, I can see what you mean about B5 forcing DS9 into strong storytelling territory, though I think really both shows were forced to be less alike. A lot of the B5 writers & DS9 writers (Ron Moore among them) expressed admiration for eachother’s work while the shows were on the air. So I think the positive effect of ‘competition’ was felt and beneficial to both shows, not just DS9.

I think when people credit DS9 for BSG moreso than B5, it is because BSG feels a more natural progression from DS9 than B5. And with Ron Moore essentially at the helm of both shows, it only makes sense that the connection will be made. Plus, BSG takes the realism that Rene & Ron tried to introduce to Trek in DS9, and takes it 12 steps beyond. Even though I admired the theatrical & literary quality of B5, it never felt like a particularly ‘realistic’ show to me. I think that’s likely where the distinction is being drawn.

89. THX-1138 - April 12, 2008

The Colonials and the Cylons will return to earth in our distant future after the demise of our civilization. They will start a new civilization and eventually expand and explore the universe again. One side or the other will start to feel repressed and eventually will break off or rebel from the rest of the established society. A war will ensue and thusly, things that had happened before will happen again. What did they call that in TNG? A causality loop? Not really the same thing, but similar events unfolding repeatedly.

And I’m still going with Adama as the 12th. Although it could be D. But not Baltar. Or maybe it could be Baltar. He sure “sees” a lot of interesting stuff. No, too obvious. It’s Adama. Or Roslin. Or Callie. The Chief seems attracted to Cylons.

The previous is but an example of how conversations on Friday nights in our house go after a new episode is aired. The wife and I had a date night last night, but you could be darn sure we made it home in time to see the 9:30 episode.

And Purolator, you certainly are entitled to your opinion. It is always welcome. But don’t get your feathers ruffled when someone calls you out for being rather narrow-minded in your expression of them. I mean seriously, are you actually crapping on the use of realistic planets? As compared to TOS’ use of the same shot of the moon with a different colored filter used over and over? Perhaps you are confusing campiness with classicness. TOS had classy in spades. BSG is not threatening TOS’ status as the grand old master of American televised sci-fi. I think that’s where a lot of the dislike stems from. Feelings of threat. Did you not like Alien because it went for a more or real edge? Or Bladerunner?

90. Michael Hall - April 12, 2008

“The new BSG has none of the timeless qualities that gives any classic sci-fi a soul, like TOS or the original BSG.”

LOL. Actually, I did follow this site’s link to NBC’s archive of the original BSG pilot and found it both better and worse than I remembered. Better, because there actually was a fairly well-written scene or two before the ragtag fleet gets to Casino Planet–there was even a moment I’d forgotten about, when Adama expresses doubts about his ability to lead humanity in its dark hour, when Loren Greene actually got the chance to show he could act. Worse, since for all the unprecedented budget, the show is incredibly, undeniably tacky, with its production design and settings far more dated than the original Trek, the endless replays of stock battle footage even in the first two hours, and worst of all, the direction and cinematography, which like so many ’70s TV shows is just dreadful. Say what you will about the new BSG, B5, or the original Trek, but whatever their faults and limitations, at least those shows have a sense of style that makes them unique.

91. sean - April 12, 2008


The interesting point with Tyrol is that if Callie isn’t a Cylon, then isn’t their child just as important as Helo & Sharon’s? And if she IS a Cylon, then what exactly is their child? As far as I can tell, there’s never been reference to Cylon-Cylon reproduction in the show. Or maybe Callie cheated on the Chief on New Caprica and we just don’t know it.

92. Garovorkin - April 12, 2008

#88 Sean in terms sheer gritiness and stark realism BSG does have a decided edge in that category. It just annoys me to no end so many people don’t respect B5 for its very accomplishments and Its equally gauling that there are a lot of trek fans who think so little of DS9. common these are all great shows.

93. Rick - April 12, 2008

Hey I enjoy BSG, B5, DS9 and STAR TREK! All have their flaws in different ways, but I have enjoyed them all for what they are. I am glad B5 and DS9 started telling story arcs. We get to have Scifi type television novels and the like. Many of these shows can provoke some good discussion, especially BSG of late. It is interesting reading all these theories of how the show will conclude. I am sure the end will bring in more controversy.

94. Rick - April 12, 2008

One more thing it is funny all this discussion about TREK and BSG. Well I am flipping across the channels last night and on Jay Leno who should be the main guest but William Shatner (Kirk) and Tricia Helfer (6). That was actually a fun Leno with those two guests. Shatner is amazing with his energy for someone of his age.

95. - April 12, 2008

My signal cut out right after Conan interviewed Patrick Stuart

96. Garovorkin - April 12, 2008

#94 Triciia Helfner beautiful and a terrific actress, the way she Plays all various incarnations of her character on BSG its a joy watch her act.

97. Dom - April 12, 2008

Hi steve623 (71)

As I stated at the beginning of my post, I really don’t give a damn what people get up to: y’know, what ever gives them a happy!

But when people start drawing limiting lines around what Trek fans can like and read about; when people start throwing hissy-fits over a Trek website featuring work outside the Trek-verse by its former writers and producers, they’re being dorks, pure and simple!

Trek was created as a mainstream sci-fi fantasy adventure show: it was intended to capture the biggest audience possible – that’s not being ‘cool;’ rather it’s being relevant and meaning something to the majority of people rather than a peculiar sub-set of obsessive fanboys.

One of the reasons Trek arguably suffered later on – as Jeff Abrams rightly pointed out – is that Trek disappeared up its own jacksie and became this peculiar Star Wars-ey sub-universe outside our reality with its own peculiar dialects, speech patterns (mostly aping Patrick Stewart’s Peter Cushing-esque delivery) and rules that ignored all the TV shows and movies that had come and gone since 1987!

The Trek ‘bubble’ has burst and Trek is now back in the real world battling all the other TV shows and movies. That’s good: Trek has to raise its game and compete with a lot of superior shows. If a new Trek film can be half as impressive as the new Galactica has been, then it has some sort of a future!!

98. me - April 13, 2008

“B5 was amateurish on many levels that distracted from the generally excellent story arcs.”
It had a low budget- so who cares. TOS also hadn’t the best special effects, settings… and was great though. The story is important, not the packaging.

” The story arcs themselves were rather a bit of a snooze. “Get out of our galaxy!” LOL”

Äh? I hope you got the inner meaning of why the shadows/vorlons left the galaxy and what this war was about. It was almost TNGlike, an end not with weapons but with a deeper meaning.

B5 and DS9 had the best Scifi Storyarcs ever, BSG stands a little bit behind them, coz it hasn’t as much space for development as the bigger B5 and DS9 universe had with its many aliens and places.
Though I love BSG and have nothing against it to hear from it here.

99. trekee - April 13, 2008

I love BSG, partly because I love shocking surprises (no, not ‘Nemesis’) so I shall be avoiding this thread from now on if I can force myself to :-)

It’s too tempting to speculate on it all and I feel a media blackout approaching when we get near the dénouement…

I have to say though B5 certainly had it’s moments but the fifth series didn’t really include that. And didn’t a certain R D Moore have rather a lot to do with DS9? You can see the similarities all the time. BSG is what DS9 would have been like if it wasn’t set in the Trek sandbox.

They made DS9 as awesomely dark as they could at the time.

Oh, and as for the Sopranos… 5 seasons of perfect, perfect TV, one patchy start to season 6 and what is quite possibly one of the most amazing endings of any series ever. Just loved it. The kahoonas* of those people ending the way they did? Fantastic.

(*a burger with pineapple and cheese if I recall?)

100. Sebastian - April 13, 2008

And a long overdue reply to #65; Dory–Dualla was my choice from the beginning of the show! Think about it. She always positions herself near people of influence; the Adama boys, dating the President’s aide (even picking his brain for insider stuff). She elicits trust in people. And she is very capable, technically. She was, and is, my front-runner for the role of final Cylon. She even got Adama to reunite the splintered fleet in “Home”, parts 1 and 2. And I totally agree with you on B5. I watched in the beginning and I tried to like it. I just couldn’t get past the uninteresting actors and the overall “blandness” of it. I’m sure it got better later on, but by then I was hooked on DS9; a lot more warmth and better actors (Colm Meaney, Nana Visitor). But, these days…..BSG is the hands down favorite with me and the missus (and all our friends, too)!

101. Michael Hall - April 13, 2008

See, that scene this week between Adama and Roslin, where two characters who admire, respect (and yes, love) each other nevertheless manage to wound each other more deeply than robotic automatons could ever hope to do? That’s what I meant by great television.

Now, I’m off to the Grand Slam. Haven’t done one of these in many years, so it should be agreeably weird. :-)

102. Garovorkin - April 13, 2008

#101Michael In BSG you always hurt the once you love or pretend to love ,Starbuck pulling the great expectation move on Lee, sleeping with him on New Caprica then Marrying Anders,then what does Kara ?do she turns around and dumps Anders, Lee on the rebound Marrys Duella for reasons both wrong and in the end selfish, forces her to risk her life save Kara on the algea planet. Then when lee needs support the most Duella does not stand by him. And of course the Baltar for all of his declarations in the end loves no one put himself and hurts everyone who tries to love him both Cylon and Human. Great drama indeed.

103. Garovorkin - April 13, 2008

#101 Lest i forget the most important one of all Ellen and Sol Tigh. Those two as much they loved each other fed off of each others misery. Ellen sells her body, soul to save tigh, In the name of a very misguided and poisonous love she betrayed the resistance to save Soul and of course he rewards her love and loyalty by Killin her. Thats probably the closest thing to a good dded that Ellen Tigh ever did in her miserable existence. In the name of love also betrayed Tigh and what he was fighting for. so you have case of both of them severely hurting on another. BSG As the Knife Blade turns.

104. colonyearth - April 13, 2008

DS9 gave birth to BSG? LOL! That’s funny! Babylon 5 gave birth to both DS9 and BSG! It was the first “novel for television” like BSG. DS9 had a relatively light arc compared to B5 and BSG. Ask any critic or anyone who studies such things and they’ll tell you that Babylon 5 was one of the most groundbreaking series in the history of televion, much less sci-fi, because it was the first dramatic series (other than soaps) to have a solid arc, a beginning, middle and an end. B5 was the first series to say ahead of time that it would run for 5 years, no more; that it had a set ending. DS9 didn’t start running a more arc-like story until B5 was successful at it. In fact, Berman stated when B5 was growing in popularity that he didn’t think such arced series would work and that episodic tv was the only way to go.

If you’re going to credit another sci-fi show for the type of show that BSG is…let’s do it fairly and accurately. The biggest credit goes to B5, which anyone in the biz will tell you, changed tv forever.


105. colonyearth - April 13, 2008

Oh and by the way, Anthony, I fully love the fact that you’re doing a BSG article! I stand by you 100%! An open forum, an open sci-fi discussion it what sci-fi itself is about. Over at other sci-fi show sites, there are tons of threads about other shows, including Trek.

I’m so confused at the ignorance of some so called Trekkers. You all do watch Trek, right? You understand its message, right? Tolerance and humanity, not close-mindedness about other ideas.

I’m just so disillusioned about Trek fans. B5 at least was a truly tolerant show and had truly tolerant fans. A lot of which were Trekkers once.


106. Rick - April 13, 2008

Right on with all that you said colonyearth! Right on!

107. AJ - April 13, 2008


I think many remember B5 as a big sleepfest, and you would be hard pressed to find too many who think it “changed TV forever.” Because it did not, and most people do not know it exists. Compared with peers “The Sopranos” and “Sex and the City,” I would say “B5″ never actually made an impact at all. I gave it a try, having bought and watched 2 seasons, to no avail.

There was lots of bad blood due to the concept’s similarity to DS9, and JMS spent lots of time deriding Trek so that his little show would sell, and ride on mighty coattails. No one gave a crap about “5 years” Just about revenue and profits.

I believe B5 may have had a recent direct-to-DVD release of new material while Star Trek has a $150m film in production. Big Difference.

108. Garovorkin - April 13, 2008

#105 Colonyearth well said and very true Babylon 5 did bring a sea change to Television. When B5 and trek were on the air there was some acrimony between the two franchises. There were Trekies who resented the fact that Babylon 5 was the new kid on the block and it was winning over the hearts and minds of so many science fiction fans, including trekies who found trek to wanting in comparison to she more sophisticated Babylon 5. The competition with B5 was the best possible thing that could have happened for trek.

109. weeharry - April 13, 2008


you could also add that –

leoben whispered to the president ‘adama is a cylon’ during the first season
leoben is into the ‘happened before happen again’ thing and sometimes claims to know what’s going to happen
nowadays Dee’s name is adama, but it wasn’t then
so the last cylon is her

personally, i don’t think it will be her, i have no idea who it will be, but am looking forward to finding out

110. Sebastian - April 13, 2008

#104 Colony earth, a fact check; just how did B5 give birth to DS9?? They were in production on separate lots at the same time. They premiered the same month of the same year (Jan. 1993). And having an arc does not make a show ‘better’ than an episodic show (as long as the episodes are well done). Ron Moore has said before that DS9 (of which he produced) did lay the groundwork for much of what was done in BSG. But BSG pulls from many sources; it has many mothers. Even the rapid-edit post credits teaser was inspired by Space:1999! According to RM’s commentaries, anyway.

111. Sebastian - April 13, 2008

And #109. Good call! But I gleaned from Lee’s “you got the house” line in the latest BSG, that the Adama’s are divorced (?). Could be wrong. Maybe they’re just separated. If so, she WOULD still legally be an “Adama,” and Leoben would’ve been making a “future-tense” revelation! Excellent logic, Weeharry!

112. Garovorkin - April 13, 2008

#110 because on of the studios that Strazininski brought his concept to was Paramount studios kind of interesting coincidence don’t you think?

113. Sebastian - April 13, 2008

From what I gather, the only element shared by B5 and DS9 was that they were both on a space station. And even if DS9 were a “B5 rip-off” (yeah…SURE), I still prefer it to B5 any day of the week!

114. Garovorkin - April 13, 2008

#109 it could Adama himself but that one would be to obvious It cannot possible be Adama wife, because she is deceased and there is no significant audience connection to the character. It is probably another of Leobens little red herrings or Leoben my be meaning something else altogether. It might even tie in with a theory that I have already mentioned. I think that everyone is a machine, both coloniels and cylons. I keep thinking of the phrase it has happened before and it will happen again ,that has a number of meanings, one that time will reset and that these events will happen all over again exactly, but I don’t think that is what it means.Okay suppose that thousands of years ago, that what left Kobol wasnot humans but machines. Now what if the people of Kobol had built their own race of machines,and they rebelled against them. We know that something dramatic happened on Kobol ,remember the piles of Human skulls,it ties in. There is another interesting coincidence, the Cylons and the Coloniel shave in common are the five, to the coloniels the five are the gods and the Cylons revere them as well. The coloniels of course built the Cylons who rebelled against them and now the Cylons have had their own little machine rebellion repeating history. The thirteenth Tribe? I suspect that they might comprise the real humans who survived tthe Rebellion on Kobol. The final five obviously have the answers to this one,but its curious that the four we know don’t seem to know anything beyond the fact that they aer 4 of the remaining models

115. Garovorkin - April 13, 2008

#113 Still you have to admit the timing here is a little curious. I Consider Ds9 to be one of greatest science fiction series of all time and easily the best trek series.But i love B5 best of all. I say respectfully to each his own Sebastian.

116. colonyearth - April 13, 2008

AJ said “I think many remember B5 as a big sleepfest, and you would be hard pressed to find too many who think it “changed TV forever.” Because it did not, and most people do not know it exists. Compared with peers “The Sopranos” and “Sex and the City,” I would say “B5″ never actually made an impact at all. I gave it a try, having bought and watched 2 seasons, to no avail.

There was lots of bad blood due to the concept’s similarity to DS9, and JMS spent lots of time deriding Trek so that his little show would sell, and ride on mighty coattails. No one gave a crap about “5 years” Just about revenue and profits.

I believe B5 may have had a recent direct-to-DVD release of new material while Star Trek has a $150m film in production. Big Difference.”

First of all I’m not trying to start a Trek versus B5 argument. B5 is highly regarded in the industry as a benchmark series that did, in fact, change television. The idea of an arced story (which we see all the time now) wasn’t done when B5 came along. It was the first if its kind. And yes, DS9 followed suit when B5’s arc was doing well and began to further arc its own story, something that Berman didn’t believe in. It was Behr who began a more arced storyline for DS9.

B5 on more than one occasion beat out Trek, BTW, for sci-fi awards including the Hugo (twice). While B5 was shot on a much lower budget and was a set-centric series (meaning the entire series was shot on a soundstage), it was praised by futurists and scientists at the time for being the most realistic vision of the future. (And on a side note, B5 has given the gays nods when Trek still refuses to.)

JMS is now considered Hollywood A-list and is even receiving oscar buzz for his script for The Changling, which is Clint Eastwood’s latest film (out later this year). When B5 was on the air, JMS was called one of Hollywoods most influential writers. B5 truly faced diversity and faced it in a human way by saying, “we don’t always have the answers, but the journey there is part of being human.”

Some people can’t get past the FX (no, B5 didn’t have Trek’s budget but they still did miracles with what they had and still managed to show more and better battle sequences than Trek did). Some couldn’t get past some of the poorer quality acting by, usually, day-players. Yet the main cast was highly praised for its performances and the main characters of B5 grew more and changed more than all of the Trek characters from TNG through ENT combined. They hurt, they changed permanently, who they were at the end of the story was not who they were at the beginning. And you hurt with them, you laughed with them, you felt with them.

Andreas Katsulas (Trekkers should know him, he’s been on TNG and VOY) who played G-Kar stated that the role of G-Kar was an actor’s dream come true. To be given such incredible lines that spoke volumes was a true honor. His words alone in B5 make it worth the watching.

Here is the probably the best example, the Declaration of Principles for the new Interstellar Alliance (best when spoken by Andreas):

“The universe speaks in many languages, but only one voice. The language is not narn or human or centauri or gaim or minbari. It speaks in the language of hope.”
“It speaks in the language of trust. It speaks in the language of strength and the language of compassion. It is the language of the heart and the language of the soul. But always it is the same voice. It is the voice of our ancestors speaking through us and the voice of our inheritors waiting to be born. The small, still voice that says: ‘We are one.
No matter the blood, no matter the skin, no matter the world, no matter the star. .. We are one. No matter the pain, no matter the darkness, no matter the loss, no matter the fear. .. We are one.’ Here, gathered together in common cause, we begin to realize this singular truth and this singular rule that we must be kind to one another. Because each voice enriches us and ennobles us and each voice lost diminishes us. We are the voice of the universe, the soul of creation, the fire that will light our way to a better future. We are one.”
“We are one.”
— Sheridan / G’Kar in Babylon 5:”The Paragon of Animals”

If you stopped in 2nd season then you should’ve kept going. Yes, B5 had a rough first season (as did TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT), but there was soooo much being set up in S1 that is crucial to the series. Things you don’t realize until you reach the end. You are, in fact, in the minority of those I’ve encountered. Most people who get into S2 can’t stop watching and in the end find B5 was truly one of the best series ever made.

As for the early animosity between Trek and B5, JMS admits that he started some of that and long time ago backed away. Why? Because in the end he was vindicated. You see, there’s a story that JMS doesn’t really like told any longer about how he submitted to Paramount a science fiction series idea about a space station…a United Nations of the stars (B5). It was rejected. Note that this was about a year or so before DS9 was ever created. JMS moved on. WB eventually went with JMS’ Babylon 5 series. But as they were moving forward, Paramount suddenly announces a new Trek series about a space station set at the opening of a wormhole that makes it an intergalactic hub. Sounded awfully familiar.

If you watch both series and pay attention to when events happened in B5 and when they happened in DS9 you’ll begin to see that DS9 was, indeed, a pale imitation of B5, which was always (and I mean always) there first. Yes, it had more money, but the story, the arc, the characters just were nowhere near as deep and reaching on DS9 as they were in B5. Watch them both and you’ll see the almost exact overall ideas mimicked in DS9. I say mimicked from B5 because B5 was as I said always first on the ideas. “Sleeping in Light” (the final episode of B5) was so extremely similar to the last hour of the DS9 finale it’s scary. And due to PTEN folding and B5’s finale season being uncertain (not to mention JMS knew from the start where B5 was going to end and has the B5 universe mapped out a million years in either direction), “Sleeping in Light” was not only written over two years before DS9 ended, it was filmed over a year earlier as well.

Both shows had their pilots in 1993. B5 ran until 98 and DS9 until 99.

The same elements in the end of the B5 Shadow war are almost mirrored in DS9’s Dominion war ending, with B5’s Shadow war ending 2 years before DS9’s. Even VOY “borrowed” from B5. Kess’ “becoming” and the words she says at the end regarding the only gift she can give (not the gift itself) are almost word for word what a character in the first season of B5 stated…a character who had been tested on by the Psi-Corps and was “becoming”; from a B5 ep years before VOY’s ep.

Watch both shows and you’ll see it. DS9, whether intentionally or not was liberally “borrowed” from the B5 treatment sent a year earlier to Paramount. JMS doesn’t discuss this any longer. Why? Because B5 became its own justice. It changed television and was and is considered a landmark moment in TV history. It is why we have strongly arced shows like BSG. It is why, whether you choose to accept it or not, DS9 became more of an arced story (though never as arced as B5).

Harlan Ellison was deeply involved in B5. Even RM has stated he has a deep respect for JMS and B5 and what he accomplished, especially against the odds he faced day-in and day-out. Yet JMS still managed to bring B5 in for less money than Trek, under budget, ahead of schedule and Babylon 5 has now grossed well over 500 million for WB on DVD alone. And it’s still growing. The new direct to DVD anthology series The Lost Tales was in the top 10 before it was even released. WB has shown deep interest in more Lost Tales and eventually a B5 feature film.

Why hasn’t B5 had a feature film? Not because WB doesn’t want one. It’s JMS that has put the hold on the feature. For only two reasons, Rick Biggs (Dr. Franklin) and Andreas Katsulas (G’Kar) both passed away within the last 3 years and JMS just can’t face a feature without their voices. It’s a testament to each character and their importance to the B5 universe. Especially G-Kar, one of the best science fiction characters ever created.

There’s a story Vir tells in the final episode about Londo that fits this situation, because it’s about wonder and beauty in places some refuse to or would never think to look for it:

“You know, Londo never liked the Pak’ma’ra. I mean, they’re stubborn, lazy, obnoxious, greedy–”
“They kinda look like an octopus that got run over by a truck.”
“That too, but .. one day Londo and I were walking past their quarters .. and we heard them .. singing.”
“Singing? They can sing?”
“There’s nothing about that in the literature.”
“Apparently it’s something they only do certain times of the year as part of their religious ceremonies. You may not believe this, but .. it was the most beautiful sound I’ve ever heard. I couldn’t make out the words, but I knew it was full of sadness and .. hope and wonder and .. terrible .. sense of loss. I looked at Londo and — this is the amazing part — there was a .. tear running down his face. I said: ‘Londo, we should leave. This is upsetting you.’ He just stood there and .. listened. And when it was over he turned to me and he said: ‘There are 49 gods in our pantheon, Vir. To tell you the truth I never believed in any of them. But if only one of them exists, .. then god sings with that voice.’ It’s funny. After everything we’ve been through, all he did, .. I miss him.”
— Sheridan, Franklin, Garabaldi and Vir in Babylon 5:”Sleeping in Light”

And I miss Babylon 5 for its power, its grace under fire, and its ability to move me and make me think on levels no television show, including Trek, ever did. When the final episode “Sleeping in Light” originally aired I watched it with my roommate. As the credits began to flash across the screen, both he and I were stunned…wordless. I stepped silently into my kitchen to get a paper towel with which to wipe my face. Minutes passed in silence between us. Finally, I spoke with sadness-cracked voice saying, “I feel like my best friend just died. I won’t have these people in my life any more and I just can’t imagine that.” No TV show or film has ever moved me like that…to feel as if a close friend or family member was gone. That is the power of Babylon 5. And if you watch it all the way through, becoming engrossed with the characters, their flaws and triumphs; the story, it’s depth and its breadth, and don’t feel something by its end…then, well, you missed the point.

You might not like the FX or be able to get past the lesser paid day-players, but don’t denegrate Babylon 5’s accomplishments just because it wasn’t your cup of tea. I can’t stand the SW prequels, but I will acknowledge how they changed cinema. I hated what B&B did to Trek, but I praise Behr and Cotto for work under that tyranny.

I’m sorry for the long post, but my heart was stirred. And as Delenn would say, “I must follow the calling of my heart.”


117. Garovorkin - April 13, 2008

#116 Colonyearth damned impressive reply !!

118. THX-1138 - April 13, 2008

I agree colonyearth. That was a great post. It was nearly as long as B5’s run on television.

I kid.

119. Sebastian - April 13, 2008

#116, CE: I respect your passion to B5, but you realize trying to change anyone’s mind on the subject is more or less futile (I like what I like; as I’m sure others do). But, you stated your case VERY well; and I applaud your prodigious effort on that post (whether I agree with you or not). Nice job!

120. SciFiMetalGirl - April 13, 2008

I be loving me some BSG from the get-go!

And I love being able to find all of my sci-fi updates all in one place: right here on! No need to jumping all over the internet playing scavenger hunt for a few tidbits and morsels. Also, I know I can rely on to have reliable sources and information, so I’ll be staying right here!

And a big thank you once again to Anthony and the staff! Please keep the good info coming!

121. Garovorkin - April 14, 2008

Winner and still champ by a knockout, Babylon 5 , best scifi show ever, bar none. Ds9 great show but would never have been the show it was without B5

122. Lena - April 14, 2008

#104 ColonyEarth, I think you just proved an opposite point. Your comparison of which came first is flawed. In terms of overall story arc with Beginning, Middle, End, the original Battlestar was first (destroy people, find clues, find Earth).

In terms of a set timeline of events, B5 has that honor of being first but neither Battlestar shows followed that pattern. Whether DS9 may or may not have set a specific timeline for their new overall story arc, I can’t say, so I’ll leave that out for now. But the fact is that the new BSG definitely did not have one.

It started as a miniseries (which demands a beginning, middle, and end) with no thought of an actual series, then SciFi begged for a series for as long as they could get it to run but never change that it would follow the original show’s ending.

123. Kevin Caulfield - April 14, 2008

#122 Your description of how BSG began is not exactly true. The miniseries was made with the thought in mind that it would go to series. In fact, Sci-Fi was hardly begging; despite it’s ratings, they were very much on the fence about whether to pick it up. In fact, while they were waiting to see if Sci-Fi would pick it up, UPN began to show interest, which got RDM to sit down and write the first episode, 33, as a way of showing that network what a regular episode would be like.

It’s true many of the general mythos were thought out during the first season, but to simply dismiss it as always being flying on the seat of their pants isn’t quite accurate. RDM has always said he enjoys a mix of planned-out storylines and improvisation, and for better or worse, BSG is that mix.

124. Garovorkin - April 14, 2008

There is one thing, now when B5 went off the air in ran on the scif channel for a while and then disappeared. Its fallen into almost obscurity in scif fandon I am wondering if the same fate awaits Battlestar Galactica when it finally finishes its run on television? Is it going to just disappear from sight?

125. sean - April 14, 2008


The miniseries was quite clearly developed with a series in mind (how you could view it any other way is puzzling). That’s why it’s called a ‘backdoor pilot’.

126. colonyearth - April 14, 2008

Garovorkin and THX-1138, thank you for your kind words. As I stated, I spoke from the heart. A heart that B5 has, I believe, made better.

Sebastian, I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. I was simply verfiying B5’s accomplishments and that they are fact, whether you liked the show or not. Thank you as well for the kind words. I believe we can all have open and honest discussions without deriding each other or trying to knock what each other likes (or who they are as in the “gay” thread). I prefer a mature debate to flaming or attack. However, debate requires, first and foremost, that facts be accepted as such.

I’m not trying to slam DS9, I think it had some great moments. I think VOY suffered about as badly as ENT did from B&B’s constant interference and attempts to be creative when they weren’t. Trek, under Berman, Pillar, Braga and Co. suffered from a serious lack of vision and passion. And that upsets me terribly. I love Star Trek and for years under B&B and Co. I would find myself screaming at the screen in frustration for how bland and processed it was all becoming. No one was more upset than I was. I grew up with Trek…hell…I was born the year it began.

Now…I want everyone to realize that while we all make mistakes, I do my research on things as best I can. When it comes to film and tv, I’m a filmmaker and do read the trades and reviews and all manner of industry info. I bring that to my posts whenever possible or needed. And if I’m ever proven wrong on a fact…I’ll gladly acknowledge my error and adjust any points I may be trying to make.

I do tend, sometimes, to post long posts (just ask the folks over at JMSNews and B5tv…LOL). I can be pretty passionate at times.

Again, I want to say that I think it’s fantastic that Anthony is running a BSG article! Why is it wrong? We, as science fiction fans should welcome all sci-fi! We should be happy when we get more and good sci-fi; not fight about it.

Over at other sci-fi forums and sites we discuss all things, from sci-fi to great books to politics to war. Science fiction fans are usually the most enlightened and love to talk about philosophy and ideas and hopes and events and movements. Why shouldn’t we be able to talk about other shows or ideas?

BSG is arced when you look at the series as a whole, despite whether it was arced from the beginning or over time with some improve along the way…it’s still an arced story. They have the ending planned out and yes, RM likes a mix of planned arc and improv. (To be truthful, while JMS knew where he was going, he had to improvise a number of times, himself.)

Thanks Kevin for clarifying on the truth of the new BSG and its beginnings. The series was planned from the moment the mini-series was greenlit. The mythos was inspired by some of the ideas from the original series, but that’s it. Over the seasons the creators knew they would bring Galactica to earth (though very early on it was said they wouldn’t find earth, which changed quickly). Knowing how it would end, at least the overall idea of how and where it would end, meant the writers and show-runners had a beginning, middle and end to BSG. While not set so much in stone as B5 was…it is what it is and is able to be what it is because of what B5 accomplished. That’s my point.

Oh and I will admit that on some level the first BSG did have some very vague idea of a beginning, middle and end. But it was not in the forefront of their thinking at the time. Hell, if you know anything about the first series, they were constantly running just to get episodes on the air because they were rushed into production sooner than had originally been planned. They weren’t thinking much about anything except how fast can we turn out some eps. But the problems of the first BSG are a whole other discussion.


127. Garovorkin - April 14, 2008

Anthony this column and others definitely proves that trek and non trek stories can co exist on this column with no problems at all and they do generate significant debate and discussion, on this alone look att the poiints that people have raised about About DS9, BSG and B5. The comparions of the shows point by point, fun stuff to talk about.

128. colonyearth - April 14, 2008


I fully agree. And while B5 isn’t running anywhere right now, it’s not vanished. TLT part 2 is just waiting to be made and JMS has said that WB is VERY interested in B5.

BSG will have Caprica to keep it alive.


129. Garovorkin - April 14, 2008

#128 Colonyearth correct me if Im wrong but the last time Warner Brother and JMS tried to seal the deal on a feature film, it fell through, because Warner wanted to recast all the major parts with younger actors. If it could be made the way JMS wants it, then I would love to see it come to pass. There might be one small hitch Steven Briggs who played Dr Franklin and Andreas Katsulas who played J,kar have both passed away, then again JMS will have easy solution to this one

130. Lena - April 14, 2008

If the series was planned, why did they openly describe how they had to change Helo’s fate to add an arc to the series explaining the Cylons’ motivations. If I remember correctly, a few of the actors also stated, behind the scenes, that they did not expect more than the mini-series. Perhaps Sci-Fi had the expectation of a future series but there are behind the scenes descriptions that made me believe otherwise for all others involved.

#123, I didn’t describe the show “always being flying on the seat of their pants” but that it did not have a set timeline within which all of the events must happen. The set timeline vs loose timeline was all that I compare.

131. Sebastian - April 14, 2008

#130. Lena, if you recall the miniseries clearly ended with a cliffhanger (the revelation of Boomer as a Cylon) and the Cylons preparing for the day the humans seek revenge. I remember from its earliest conception leaks onto the Internet, it was described as a back-door pilot. Helo’s fate was changed as a result of his unexpected popularity with viewers during studio and fan screenings. Nothing more. But watching the mini, it not only leaves the door open for a series, it BEGS for one. One interesting note: watching the mini again, I noticed the Colonials polytheism was not worked out yet. You hear many characters say, “God” instead of Gods, and not just the monotheistic Cylons. Personally, I like BSG’s rather looser structure. Reminds me of Patrick McGoohan’s The Prisoner; a show with a beginning, middle and an idea of an ending. But judging by the surreal finale it was not etched in stone! Works for me; I like surprises! And #123 Kevin? I think Lena in post #122 was referring to the original 1978 Battlestar Galactica storyline; which influenced the 2003 remake at least in concept. On that point, she was quite correct.

132. Garovorkin - April 14, 2008

#125 Sean the sense that i got was that the scif Channel probably did not figure that Galactica would draw the kind of numbers that it did. But When I watched it was obvious to me that it was written with the series in mind. Ron Moore had this series planed out from day one. I think probably the best thing that ever happened to Galactica was when Bryan Singer bowed out of the original project, because his version of Galactica was more a continuation of the original series. I doubt that that version would have survived even two seasons.

133. colonyearth - April 14, 2008

“#128 Colonyearth correct me if Im wrong but the last time Warner Brother and JMS tried to seal the deal on a feature film, it fell through, because Warner wanted to recast all the major parts with younger actors. If it could be made the way JMS wants it, then I would love to see it come to pass. There might be one small hitch Steven Briggs who played Dr Franklin and Andreas Katsulas who played J,kar have both passed away, then again JMS will have easy solution to this one”

You’re thinking of the ill-fated attempt by a third party to make a B5 feature film. The film was to be called The Memory of Shadows and would’ve dealt with leftover Shadowtech.

First, JMS holds the rights to any B5 feature film while WB owns B5. What this means is that JMS can shop around a feature if he wants to, though WB would most likely distribute it.

When TMoS came up, it was from a group of investors who approached JMS and wanted to make a B5 feature. JMS wrote the script and even did some rewrites. It looked as if the film was a go when suddenly JMS was hit by the investors with the idea of recasting the cast with younger, more “hip” actors. Word of this got out quickly and the B5 fans ennudated WB and the production offices in England with “B5 Bucks” which were to represent the money the investors would loose if they recast. The movement received a lot of notice. At this time both Rick Biggs and Andreas were still living. Another issue with the film was that if the original cast were kept, the investors’ offers to them were insulting. JMS was vehemently on the side of the cast and told the investors he didn’t want to have anything to do with it if that’s the way they were going treat them or if they were going to recast them. No JMS means no B5.

It’s a good thing that that film fell through since A) the investors had no real respect for B5 and were only looking for a money vehicle and B) they had hired 13 Ghosts director, Steve Beck to direct it. If you look at ole Steve’s body of work it is far from impressive and he most likely would’ve ruined B5.

When the deal finally fell through (B5 fans were informed by JMS, who’s always been in contact with his fans from the very beginning and has been actively conversing with them — we B5 fans have had what Trek fans have in Orci from the start), anyway, when it fell through the script, which had been commissioned and paid for by these investors, remained their property, however, nothing B5 is theirs. WB never had anything to do with TMoS and hadn’t even agreed to distribute it.

However, due to the overwhelming DVD sales (as I stated over $500 million and climbing) and due to the amazing fan response (WB was deludged with B5 Bucks as well), WB once again began to realize what they have in B5. In fact, according to JMS, every couple of years WB calls him in and asks what can we do in the B5 universe?

Unfortunately, within about a year/year and a half of TMoS falling through, first Rick Biggs died unexpectedly of an aortic tear (the same thing that killed John Ritter) and Andreas Katsulas died on 2/13/06 of lung cancer.

Not long after TMoS fell through and both Rick and Andreas passed, WB called JMS in again and asked, “what can we do in the B5 universe?” You see WB is very aware of what they have in B5 and desperately want something more. They asked JMS if he wanted to go ahead with a theatrical feature film and JMS, still stinging from Rick and Andreas’ deaths, told them he just couldn’t conceive of making a B5 feature without them right now, the wounds were still too fresh. To quote him, “maybe in a couple of years.”

He then stated he would be willing to make a direct to DVD anthology series (yes direct to DVD was JMS’ idea, not WB). The idea would allow JMS to work on B5 and get used to not having Rick and Andreas around while giving WB more in the B5-verse. It would also allow JMS to tell some smaller stories that he always wanted to tell in the verse. WB went for it. JMS told them he wanted absolute control and that he wanted to direct the first one (so he could personally make sure it was started the way he wanted it to be and with the right tone set for it — he wanted to give it a good send-off). WB agreed without hesitation.

JMS also wanted to make the new anthology series much like he did the series, on a tight budget to prove it could do well and make more money. The series would be called The Lost Tales and small portions of the B5 sets were rebuilt in Vancouver as well as new sets. Greenscreen would be used wherever possible to keep costs down (at least to begin with…later productions most likely will get bigger). Each DVD would consist of at least 2 stories that are linked in some way. The first one, set on B5, is linked by nothing more that the fact that Sheridan is on his way to B5 to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the IA and is only mentioned. Same for the second story, set on the new Presidentail Cruiser on its way to B5 for the ceremony.

Funny thing is, once again B5 is on the forefront with Babylon 5: The Lost Tales being now the first sci-fi series released directly to DVD.

Unfortunately, WB had lost all of the CG models for the entire B5-verse. The files were gone. So the new FX house (the same one that does BSG’s FX) had to seek out pictures and toys, etc., in order to recreate all the ships, including Babylon 5, herself. Fans once again stepped up to the plate and sent in tons of fan owned pictures and memorabilia from which all of the models were painstakingly reconstructed.

TLT was made not just because of the devotion of the fans, but in a big way it couldn’t have been made without them.

On July 31, 2007 Babylon 5 The Lost Tales – Voices in the Dark was released and from the moment it became available for pre-order became a fast shooting star, moving from the bottom of the pre-order sales into the top 10 in 2 days. There is an audience for B5.

Babylon 5 has repeatedly shown it has a huge international fan base. Thought we may sit quietly awaiting more B5, we are out there in droves. The fan sites continue to see new members join, some who just found them and others who only recently discovered the wonder of Babylon 5.

The fans were last told by JMS that prior to the writer’s strike (all B5 fans were extremely active on behalf of the writers during the strike because of their unique insight of the situation and the industry thanks to their Great Maker, who is always there to inform and educate his fans on how things work in the biz. He’s probably the most active Hollywood writer and creator with his fans and always has been and is more than willing to teach them how things work in the industry, so they’re very informed as fans.)….anyway, sorry got off the train of thought there, the fans were last told by JMS that prior to the strike WB had a meeting with him to discuss the next Lost Tales DVD about which they were very excited. In fact they wanted to begin work on it immediately. JMS told them they better fast-track it before the strike hit to which they responded (to a writer no less) that the writers wouldn’t be a problem and that the studios could handle them and that there wouldn’t be a strike, to which JMS just responded (after being insulted) “ok.” Before any movement could take place though, the writers were on strike. Can’t say he didn’t warn them.

Since the end of the strike, JMS has been an extremely busy man, being now one of Hollywoods “got to get him to write our film” guys. He’s finished the Silver Surfer feature script, the feature World War Z screenplay and at the last con he attended he stated that now that the writer’s strike is over he’s got seven other feature films lined up, two of them genre from film and print. When asked for hints, he simply mentioned how nice it was that Ron Howard had acquired the rights to the “Lensman” series. Others are Ninja Assassin for director James McTeigue and They Marched Into Sunlight for acclaimed director Paul Greengrass. As for the rest, JMS is shy about announcing anything until it’s signed and sealed pretty much now ever since the TMoS debacle. He always felt he let the fans down a bit on that one and now is more careful on when he says what.

All of that as well as a possible new series (he won’t say what), all of his Marvel work as well as his other comics and JMS is starting his own production company named “And the Horse You Rode In On Productions”. I believe that he’s looking to bring “Midnite Nation” and “Rising Stars” (both critically acclaimed comic series created and written by JMS) into this company.

Well, considering all of that, it’s clear that JMS is seen for the amazing creative soul he truly is. Unfortunately, since B5 is his baby, it also means that there will most likely be a slight delay on more Lost Tales until JMS has time to take part, though he’s already got one of the next DVD’s two parts written and has stated he will not direct the next one. So, we’re all just waiting on pins and proverbial needles for the announcement of more B5! Until then, we B5 are resting…we’re standing behind our Great Maker and looking toward The Changling with excitement! Oh and his WWZ script has received huge praise industry wide!

JMS has also been called the busiest man in Hollywood. He wrote the majority of Babylon 5 himself. As JMS said in 1996 after only 3 seasons of B5 (he went on to write almost all of the remaining eps except I believe 2): “Actually, the scary thing is…I wrote 12 the first year, 15 the
second, and 22 the third, so that’s 49 out of 66 altogether. That’s
about 2,400 pages in 3 years, equal to 5 full-length novels.

Suddenly I have the overwhelming urge to take a nap….”

And that doesn’t count everything else.


134. colonyearth - April 14, 2008

Ok…enough B5 and JMS. If you guys want to talk more about it, come on over and visit us at or (b5tv is more active while JMSNews is the archive of everything JMS has ever posted on the internet…ever).

When the BSG mini was made I had someone on the inside in Hollywood give me the “skinny.” Before the mini was even finished, they were already planning the first 13 episodes. Mostly what was up in the air, due to the high cost of the series, was whether BSG would be made like more U.S. series and have 20 to 22 eps or if it would be made more like a British show and have only 12 or 13 eps a season (LOST is now closer to the British style and will only have about 13 or 14 eps per season until its end in 2010).

It was finally decided that BSG would be made for a full season after the series premiered and did so well. RM did not have the series planned out any any detail but did have an idea of where he wanted to take it. As with anything with an arc, you make adjustments and have new ideas along the way that alter the arc, whether for the better or for the worse we, as fans, will never really know since most times we never hear what the other plans were.

I do know that RM only recently announced that after having BSG’s final episodes perculating in his brain whilst on strike, he had a better idea of how to close it out and when the strike ended (they still had about 9 eps left to write and produce post-strike) he pulled the writers together and they worked through his idea and how to move there from where they already had filmed in the first 11 eps of the last season. Sound to me like Ron had a bit of an epiphany. I can’t wait to see it! It also may mean that any speculation based on anything in the first 11 eps could be pointless. Argh!


135. Lena - April 16, 2008

Obviously I was way wrong about the miniseries/series connection, but I don’t think that diminishes the fact that it cannot be said that B5 was the model of story-telling used by the new BSG. The new BSG used the original’s model, period.

In my opinion this does not in any way change the significance of B5 and its contributions to Sci-Fi and TV. In essence, B5, DS9 (no matter the reasons), and BSG broke away from the formulaic trap that other tv shows fall into by creatively taking risks and that’s what true art really is. And let’s face it, whether people accept the show or not, they have to be respected for that. is represented by Gorilla Nation. Please contact Gorilla Nation for ad rates, packages and general advertising information.