On Saturday TrekMovie.com reported that the former MST3Kers at RiffTrax.com released a comic commentary for the Star Trek Phase II episode “World Enough and Time,” but that STP2 producer James Cawley was not happy about it being available as a synced video download. Today Cawley informs TrekMovie that Rifftrax and Phase II have worked things out and WEaT will be available as audio only.
According to Cawley, although he does not own the rights to Star Trek, he does own the video and contended that anyone selling it would be violating Phase II’s agreement with CBS Paramount. Cawley says that as soon as he contacted the Rifftrax team, they immediately complied with his request to stop offering the video downloads. The RiffTrax.com site was updated today and only the audio file version is available.
Here is a sample of the WEaT w/ RiffTrax:
Cawley says there is no enmity between the parties and that he was actually a bit flattered to learn the Riffers were fans of Phase II/New Voyages. Cawley noted:
I suppose it is really cool. I guess it shows that you have ‘arrived’ when you get made fun of like that.
And the Rifftrax team agrees. In an email, Bill Corbett (one of the ‘Riffers’) tells TrekMovie “James Cawley was a great sport about the whole thing.” He also joked (showing his Trek geek cred):
James Cawley has challenged Mike Nelson, Kevin Murphy and myself to a duel, invoking kal-if-fee. He looks like a pretty fit guy, so we’re not too happy about this development. (Gulp!)
As for the future of Rifftrax Trek, they have already recorded a commentary for the Phase II episode “To Serve All My Days” and so that should be released soon at RiffTrax.com.
Next up for RiffTrax
More Trek from RiffTrax
RiffTrax has already done three Star Trek features (V, VI, & GEN) [available individually or as a three pack at RiffTrax.com]. Corbett tells TrekMovie it is possible they will do more but they are taking a break from Trek and “don’t think that far in advance.”
A sample from STVI:
I understand Cawley needing to cover his rear end. Hopefully he really finds it amusing.
eh… who would wanna listen to just the audio track?
i mean you really have no idea what is going on without the video. alot of the fun is looking at the actors facial expressions or mannerisms since the parody plays alot off of that..
however i must agree that it was not ok for them to just use the film without permission
I would love to see an intentional collaberation between Cawley and the MST3K loons. It could be wonderful, if done with a bit of restraint.
you listen to the audio track as you play the video…that’s how rifftrax works. at the beginning of the rifftrax it tells you how to sync up the audio to the video…it’s pretty easy. i bought rifftrax for star trek V, VI, and generations…all audio tracks that i play on my itunes while on my tv plays the video.
@Steve-o, you watch the mp3 in sync with the New Voyages video. There are instructions on how to do it contained within the actual mp3 itself (while you listen to it). It’s quite easy to do :)
We look forward to working with the New Voyages cast!
How come my comments keep getting deleted?! I was just helping you guys out with constructive criticism.
Cawley invoked kal-if-fee…hmm.. Since koon ut kal-if-fee is a mating challenge, I wonder who the Cawley’s blushing bride would end up being – Corbett, Murphy or Nelson… Now that would be a good parody!
*thumbs through vulcan dictionary*
koon ut kal-if-fee is “marriage or challenge”, i.e.
koon = marriage
ut = or
kal-if-fee = challenge
so i would assume that corbett’s usage of the word would be meant to infer only a challenge, one unrelated to mating of any kind… or at least we could hope. lol.
love the rifftrax guys (and of course their magnificent work on MST3K) and can’t wait to hear their take on NV!
=/\= James
I’m really glad this was sorted so quickly. The Rifftrax guys are awesome and certainly never meant any deliberate harm.
Glad I downloaded the DVD version!
Yancy
Part of the hilarious commentary for Cloverfield
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOJQIrEvizA
James#8- LOL! Note to self: go to Barnes & Noble and pick up a copy of Webster’s Vulcan Dictionary…
I love Rifftrax, New Voyages and MST3K!
Glad they worked it all out.
I’m not quite sure how to express my reaction to this news. I really love Phase Dos, and think the world of JC for making it.
Therefore at this time, while being somewhat concerned about the overall direction of the new voyages in recent times… I will leave my comments at that.
And again, to state my appreciation for that which has brought me so much joy.
BEST!!
=h=
So you’re saying that the vulcan word for marriage is used as a racial slur on earth??
Glad to read that things have been worked out.
#12 – Denise de Arman
Along with “Webster’s Vulcan Dictionary”, you might want to look for the new bestseller “Plomeek Soup for the Vulcan Katra”.
And remember that when you pick up either of these titles at your local bookstore 10% of the proceeds go directly to The Vulcan Academy of Surak!
;-)
=/\= James
This is be the good news of the day.
And fan filmdom survives another weird and unexpected legal hurdle, thanks once again to the bold pioneers at STP2. Thank you, James Cawley and Co.
Hey, it’s 5 AM. I’m allowed to wax poetic at this hour.
I think people should stop refering to rifftrax as Parody, and look up what parody actually is. Because rifftrax aint parody. It’s just bad middle school gag humour.
Well, I’m glad that both sides are fine with this, but I’m going to miss those “no syncing required” videos. They actually did a good job with this one.
I’m just glad I nabbed it before it was taken down.
>:)
RiffTrax has done….
“The Star Wars Holiday Special”
That alone makes it parody of the highest order….
Take everything that was bad about the 70’s put Star Wars on top of it let sit for 2 hours, put it on TV, then over the next 30 years watch George Lucus want to take a hammer to ever single bootleg copy of it that’s out there.
#21
George Lucas actually still has the original masters locked up in his vaults. He just hasn’t released any of the material.
I personally don’t find these MST3K or RiffTrax particulary funny.
I have a sense of humor like everyone else,but this seems to me like clever-dicks who are jealous of other peoples works and want to take the mickey out of it.
We can all be high and mighty,take the p**s and all,but it comes across a bit childish.
BUT!! James Cawley does seem a bit naive that if one makes a piece of work,which will go on the internet,there will be someone out there to mock,parody,etc.
#23 – Its not about the parody aspect. James Cawley has a legal binding agreement with Paramount. These fan produced episodes can only be produced as long as they don’t sell them. RiffTrax syncing the audio to a video file and selling it put that agreement in serious jeopardy and if the practice had continued, it could have shut down all fan productions.
I just love the whole attitude of JC is this and JC is that and if JC think this or that then he must be crazy. If some people had actually bothered to read the article at the top of this column instead of skimming it, all the important details of why this is a big issue would have been crystal clear.
It the same reason we can no longer download the New Voyages episodes. Some *ss was burning them to DVD and selling them at conventions… also a violation of the agreement with Paramount. Due to one fans greed… none of us can download these episodes anymore.
Good on Cawley for working things out. This Rifftrax IS a compliment. As someone in the earlier thread pointed out, this is the equivalent of having Weird Al parody your music.
Now to buy and download the track.
#19
There are a lot of things that fall under the definition of parody that I don’t like, either. Yet, I’m not allowed to declare them ‘not a parody’ just because I feel like it.
re 24. Biodredd
This is where I am getting lost in the argument and where my concern is. It is one thing for JC to produce and then sell Phase Dos™ – which he is clearly not.
The argument makes about as much sense to me as saying that Metallica and Lars Ulrich himself will be liable for anyone pirating and Metallica mp3s on the interweb.
I’m not sure what your legal background is, and perhaps you are more in the know in terms of intellectual properties than I. However, I do have some experience and that just does not sound right to me. And it very well could be an easement to Paramount no matter the legal implications(which I maintain are none).
New Voyages should continue providing free downloads as they always have. The new policy seems to be an overcorrection. And don’t get me wrong – I’d have the same reaction were I JC™ and saw someone selling what I was making for free. I might even be so pissed off as to stop making new episodes altogether.
New Voyages is getting BIG, no doubt about that. And as they say, “You buy the land, you get the Indians”. I sure do hope that JC™ does come to the more reasonable conclusion in the long term. The needs of the many outweigh the deeds of the few.
BEST!!
=h=
hahah.. whoops i guess sync the video does make an awful lot of sense my bad
James#17- Chicken Soup for the Vulcan Katra – very good, made the ShiKahr Times Bestsellers list in 2006. The best one out right now is Pon Farr for Dummies written by, you guessed it, Spock of Vulcan.
Captain, I spilled gravy on the warp drive….
Blowback#30- LOL!
What was I thinking – Vulcans do not eat chicken… Plomeek Soup for the Vulcan Katra. My apologies, James.
# 26. My point was that rifftrax doesn’t fall under the definition of parody. Parody is when SNL or MadTV dress up and do a skit on a current TV show. Rifftrax is just a audio track with a couple of bozos making unfunny gags.
#33
And again, just because you don’t define it as parody doesn’t mean it isn’t parody. Parody is not confined to the visual medium.
“Rifftrax is just a audio track with a couple of bozos making unfunny gags”.
I couldn’t agree more.
Man, those voices…. Somehow it just isn’t the same without the Crowe and Tom Servo silhouettes.
Good to read that almost everything can be solved in a civilized manner.
hey # 33 & #35
“Rifftrax is just a audio track with a couple of bozos making unfunny gags”
“I couldn’t agree more.”
And Star Trek is filled with loudmouth geeks who take their fluffed gizmos and alien dictionaries wayyyyy too seriously….
In Shatner’s words, “Get A Life”
Rifftrax is stupid, not funny or clever. What I DO find hilarious is that Cawley is asserting rights over a production which is a 99% ripoff of someone else’s work! The one percent which is not a ripoff is Cawley’s pompadour, which didn’t appear anywhere in the original series. : )
#39 —
Your thoughts on RiffTrax is entirely your opinion and you have the right to like it or not. I personally like it (and have always loved MST3K)
However, Mr. Cawley’s interest in stopping the video/audio combo was not so much the fact that he was asserting rights over his production, but he was trying to save his production (and his own ass) from the wrath of the mighty Paramount. They’ve made it more than clear that they’re looking for ANY reason whatsoever to shut down his production just because they’re not making a cool buck off it. Any monetary exchange for his product would violate the agreement Mr. Cawley has with Paramount that the “Star Trek” name and properties will not be used to gain any profit for ANYONE.
Rifftrax has the right to sell their commentary as a separate entity, but when they’re charging for the video (rather than simply providing a link for people to download the episode for free to synch with the audio) that’s a clear violation of Paramount’s agreement and a threat to Mr. Cawley and his production.
=/\= James
re: =/\= James,
You said that Paramount is “looking for any reason” to shut down JC™ “just because they’re not making a cool buck off it.” May I ask how you obtained this information?
You also state that even though there is “an agreement” with Paramount, “Any monetary exchange for his product would violate the agreement Mr. Cawley has with Paramount that the “Star Trek” name and properties will not be used to gain any profit for ANYONE.”
Questions:
1. Why would Paramount “agree” to let JC do anything with their property if they are simply looking to shut him down? Would not simply refusing to “agree” accomplish the same?
2. Isn’t what you are referring to more of a “blanket policy” that Paramount has adopted for all fan films and not a specific “agreement” with Phase II?
3. “will not be used to gain any profit for ANYONE?” ANYONE? Has anybody ever heard of a binding legal agreement which infers liability upon the contracting parties for 3rd party actions?
Let’s go back to my previous example where the record company has a “contract” with Metallica that states that the band would be responsible for the actions of internet pirates.
No, let’s not because that’s completely ridiculous. What the record company CAN put in it’s “contract” with Metallica is that they are the exclusive distributor of their music. Metallica cannot sign another record contract, let another record company sell their music, and Metallica cannot even give away their music at their website in “record” format. Live bootlegs are entirely different animal though which is of interest to note here because I think the RiffTrax is prob the same equivalent in this case.
The contract does not address consequences for Metallica, or liabilities of Metallica to the record company, IF old hitch1969 is torrenting their cds on the internet all the live long day. hitch1969 is not a party of the contract. A contract is a binding agreement between parties. hitch1969 was not privvy to the contract. How is Metallica liable for hitch1969? No way. Just… no way this would ever happen.
Dude… give me something that I can understand, that makes sense. If Phase 2 is being allowed by Paramount to do what they do… Man, I can’t just keep rehashing the obvious flaw in the argument here. I’m sorry but what you are saying makes absolutely no sense, and with all due respect because I am interested to hear your response and see which piece of the puzzle I am missing here. I do realize that it is likely possible that you know something that I do not, so I await your response.
BEST!!
=h=
One other quick point about this “Evil Paramount” argument:
“RiffTrax has already done three Star Trek features (V, VI, & GEN) [available individually or as a three pack at RiffTrax.com]. ”
Why is Paramount allowing the freaking movies – their FOR PROFIT venture – to be made available by RiffTrax????
But not New Voyages?????
Is any of this making sense to anyone????
BEST!!
=h=
I was wondering the same thing Hitch old man…why allow the actual movies, but not the fan movie??
Methinks the problem lies not so much with the studio as it does with Cawley. Which is certainly his right, it’s his show..if there stands the slightest risk of action from Paramount/CBS I can certainly understand Cawley wanting to take measures to prevent it.
re: 43. star trackie
Agreed. It is totally within JC’s purview to take the action that he did in the matter. And if someone were selling what I was giving away for free (in addition to financing) I think that I’d be all over it, too. Especially if they were doing this in a way that made mockery of me. I wouldn’t have even allowed the .mp3 audio download.
So JC™ is Christ-like in that regard, hence the initials as well. He has turned the other cheek when stricken, and embraced with love the evil doers who plot his demise while collecting taxes outside the temple. Sure, he cast their tables over in disgust. Perfectly understandable. Yet in the end he demonstrated Tender Mercies™ upon thine enemy and not only forgave them but also the trespassers who trespassed against him.
JC™ is a humble man from meager beginnings. This much we know. But at some point the growth of this Phase Dos™ must be controlled lest it become a cancer is what I am saying I think. Let it not become the franchiseed corporate cash cow from which it stemmed in the waning days of Berman Braga.
The franchise is starting over now, and JC’s Phase ii is a large part of that vision for me, personally. As I stated on his site over there, I love it so much that I want to marry it. I love the notion that its a grassroots effort, fully available to the masses via many internet formats and completely done FOR THE LOVE OF GAME. That is the vision that I hope… sincerely hope.. that JC is able to maintain as this thing gets bigger and bigger.
BEST!!
=h=
Gents,
CBS/PARAMOUNT has been nothing but Gracious to me and all the fanfilms, they are not looking to shut us down. I made an agreement years ago when this project started that we would not make money from it. And by that rule, If I , the guy that spends the money to make the episodes can’t make money, then by God no one will make money from it, until and unless Paramount/CBS ever licenses fan films. Period. I will do everything I can to enforce that rule. My word is far more important, than my popularity with anyone.
James Cawley
JC™,
I now understand, my sincerest wish for you is that Paramount someday will license Phase II. In thinking about this thing with the RiffTrax, and also the decision to stream the latest episode and not offer a download… certainly these are prudent paths to accomplish that, while enforcing your sole ownership of your property. I really do appreciate your honesty and candor in responding to the questions.
Are there other ways to accomplish this as well? My concern is that lacking the phase 2 mirror download and torrent sites… well, I spose part of this is my self-centeredness in wanting a decent copy to watch on the old plasma, but still, in how it affects Phase II is the ability to reach new audience. I don’t know that a few years ago when I was curious enough to check out New Voyages that I would have been as interested in a stream as I would a download. Streaming has that bubble-gum YouTube flash in the pan clip of the day sort of connotation to it, not to mention the issues of quality – both in format and due to connection. Downloads are much more appealing, I think especially to your audience… and a download page or torrent represents a staying power and presence that an agreement with dragonfly just doesnt. With all due respect to your new partner, by the way. The stream that I watched was actually pretty good, I way impressed.
I am rambling a bit, and I know that you are wise enough to have already weighed these pros and cons of the formats and have made your decision. I guess what I am saying is that there will always be those folks out there who are going to try to bootleg and sell your stuff, man. As an artist, we can see that you are dealing with that frustration as many other artists have. JJ Abrams is going to deal with the same thing when a camcorder shot version of the new movie hits the torrents just a few hours after it opens.
And maybe that’s my point in asking you to reconsider the downloads. The evildoers are not going to go away, and what if someday you hit a convention where they are selling camcorder shot versions of the streaming Phase II. Now, not only have you not accomplished your goal, but as an artist you are being totally disrespected and misrepresented with a totally inferior product that does not represent your work.
JC, Hollywood didn’t abandon home video when VHS bootlegs hit the market. They got Macrovision. And as soon as that was cracked… well, you get my point. Nothing’s foolproof.
AND I understand that you being a man of principle… just the thought of these fools making $1 off your work, when you paid to give it away for free… it’s a principle thing. I’m with you, man.
But still… Hollywood found a way to get past the idealistic phase and make things BIG. JC, I want YOU to make Phase II BIG. Please don’t limit yourself when there are other ways that you can minimize the work of the evil doers. Please reconsider medium def downloads for the diehards. Or perhaps … dude, I don’t know. There are a million ways that you could try to regulate the piracy. Let’s get creative and make them happen!
BEST!!
=h=
Just to clarify (once again) – neither James Cawley nor Paramount have ‘let’ RiffTrax keep the audio files up for sale. They are parody (even if you don’t think they’re funny, even if they don’t dress up in costumes and video tape it), and protected. It doesn’t matter if they make money off of it or not. Making money off a parody work is also protected under ‘fair use’.
The problem was the audio/video combination. RiffTrax wasn’t charging for the video or raising the price to include it, they were offering it because it was already freely available and they didn’t think it would ruffle the feathers it clearly did. At best the whole thing was a misunderstanding, and the guys at RiffTrax were not only very complimentary of the New Voyages production crew in their own forums, but they immediately removed the video link when asked.
My only comment is:
MST3K was funny. This is not so much. You pay for this, huh? After watching that link above, I feel someone owes me money.
I guess that was more than just a comment, but you get my drift.
sean – are they not using the audio from Phase II to do the parody mp3?
And from I can see over there… using both audio and video from the Star Trek feature movies? Do they have some sort of agreement with the studio to do that? If so, how much?
There are too many variables here that I am unaware of.
And it looks like nothing is free over there… they charge for everything.
ay caramba.
=h=
No, they aren’t using both audio and video for anything. The only time they did that was the aforementioned New Voyages ep. They merely provide links to purchase the individual DVD’s on Amazon (which is a bummer, but their only option since they no longer have a studio to purchase the movie rights).
If you’re referring to the video sample clips, since those are under a certain length they don’t violate copyright. It’s a bit like the 30 second MP3 clips on iTunes – the reason they’re 30 seconds is that’s the time frame that you can sample a song without having to pay for it, legally, for either previewing purposes (iTunes) or podcasts, etc. Otherwise, iTunes would have to pay the labels/artists every time you listened to that 30 second stream.
Also, no, they aren’t using audio from Phase II or any other production. The RiffTrax files are merely the commentary from Mike, Kevin, Bill, etc. There is an audio cue in the files containing bits of dialogue from whatevever movie is being riffed, called Disembaudio. It’s just a synthesized voice that says a line of dialogue so you can make sure the audio riff lines up with your movie.
That they charge for it is actually another protected aspect of parody and fair use. If you look over previous legal precedents, courts have protected parody even when it is sold for profit and contains a significant portion of the original work.