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Star Trek Villain Spoilers May 16, 2008

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Spoilers,Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback

There has been a lot of talk and speculation and even hints about who the bad guys are in the new Star Trek movie, including another hint from an interview with Anton Yelchin today. So TrekMovie.com has done a little digging to confirm what we all should know by now, and found a few interesting tidbits. Details below.
[SPOILERS BELOW]

Romulans!
The involvement of Romulans has been reported before by this site, IESB and AICN. There is also evidence from a couple of the film’s actors themselves. Last summer Zachary Quinto told SciFi Wire to prepare for Trek he was “learning a lot about Vulcans and a lot about Romulans.” And in a new interview, Anton Yelchin (Chekov) talked about it being fun to “sit on the bridge screaming about Romulans.” And this isn’t the first time Yelchin has talked about screaming at Romulans. Also in an interview with TrekMovie.com last year, co-writer Roberto Orci stated that “Balance of Terror,” the classic TOS episode that introduced the Romulans, was one of the key episodes they ‘referred to’ while creating the movie. Lastly we have this photo from Orci’s behind-the-scenes on the Star Trek shoot collection:


Even Romulans got to eat

So even though it has yet to be officially acknowledged, as far as TrekMovie is concerned (and this is confirmed with multiple sources), the new Star Trek features Romulans and they are the primary antagonists, lead by Nero (Eric Bana) and his 2nd in command General Ayel (Clifton Collins, Jr.).

Romulans: hairless…and ridgeless
When Eric Bana showed up on the Tonight Show with a shaved head the same week he was to start shooting for Star Trek people took notice. But TrekMovie.com has learned that it isn’t just Bana who has gone Kojak. According to sources close to the production, all actors playing Romulans, including Collins and even background performers, were required to shave their heads. TrekMovie.com has been told that the reason the Romulans are bald was at least partly to help distinguish them from the Vulcans. It has also been confirmed that the Romulans in the new Star Trek do NOT have the extra forehead ridges seen in the TNG era (both on film and TV).


Bana and Collins spotted hairless (both pics from February)

Romulans are up to no good!
So what is it the Romulans are doing? Well TrekMovie.com has already confirmed rumors that time travel plays a part in the film and the Romulans are knee deep in that as well. But once back in time what do they do? Well as it happens we have already seen part of their dastardly plan. Back in February we reported that a local traffic news helicopter flew over a large rusty object which was being filmed in a parking lot around Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles (we later reported that JFX got some shots of John Cho and a bald actor at that location). Initial speculation was that this object was some kind of ship, and the bald actor was a Klingon. However, TrekMovie.com has learned the object is actually a ‘drilling rig’ being used by the Romulans and that it is related to an attempt to destroy a planet. The practical location is just part of the larger rig that will mostly be done in CGI by ILM. the bald actor is, of course, a Romulan who Sulu (Cho) fights. Although he wasn’t seen by the paparazzi, apparently Kirk (Chris Pine) will also be in that scene, but not part of the fight.


Romulan bad guy for Sulu to fight


and part of the Romulan drilling rig

Romulans…the other Star Trek villain
Not all a total surprise, but it is interesting that the Star Trek team went with Romulans. Although Romulans have been featured in all five Trek TV series and both the TOS and TNG film series, Klingons are the more traditional Trek villain and much better known to the general public. In fact, the original draft for Star Trek III: The Search for Spock had Romulans as the antagonists but Paramount had it switched to the more familiar Klingons. However fret not, TrekMovie has already reported that we will see Klingons in this film…and we all know how well Kirk gets along with them.

Of course “Balance of Terror” sets up some canon issues that the film makers are surely aware of (e.g. seeing the Romulans for the first time). But the prequel series Star Trek Enterprise figured out a way to use Romulans and keep within canon (some debate this), so Abrams and his team may have some of their own tricks up their sleeves. Or the Abrams ‘Supreme Court’ may have made a ruling on this issue.


Romulans first seen in TOS episode “Balance of Terror”

Comments

1. odiin - May 16, 2008

Nice. Romulans with bald heads > Romulans with ridges

2. NaeZ - May 16, 2008

I can’t wait to see the movie!!!

Greets from the Netherlands

3. Dennis Bailey - May 16, 2008

So, basically we’re going to have Kirk and company squaring off and fighting with the Romulans years before “Balance Of Terror.”

This movie is going to be a lot of fun – but all of the complaining about (apparent) canon violations concerning “no one has ever seen a Romulan…” between now and then will provide its own kind of entertainment. LOL

4. DIGINON - May 16, 2008

Nice!

5. martin - May 16, 2008

Ok… Romulans. That seems very problematic. I think we expected that Nimoy Spock would probably start with something Romulan based, but if you get the original crew too involved with Romulans, isn’t that a big problem? At Balance of Terror, Kirk & Crew didn’t know who the Romulans were related too– just rumors. Even Enterprise handled this fairly well, so I would assume the timeline can remain intact, but it does cause a problem with storytelling I think. I would rather see Klingons myself– and I can’t wait to see what they go with for a Klingon look now that DS9 and Enterprise established a backstory explaining the TOS appearance of the Klingons.

6. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - May 16, 2008

Thank god no stupid ridges always hated that, the goofy shoulder pads and the dumb fright wigs they wore. Hated that alot!!! Bald Romulans should be interesting I suppose

7. CmdrR - May 16, 2008

OK — prequel? So… they can’t see the Rommies unless it’s a flash forward? Oh, my head hurts. Cool stuff, even so. Thanks, Anthony.

8. jabba the hut - May 16, 2008

horray! No silly ridges!!! Whooo hoo

Thank God!!

9. Tom - May 16, 2008

If they are watching Balance of Terror, then JJ & Co know the canon. But remember they are the “Supreme Court” when it comes to violating canon for dramatic purposes.

I’m glad they are going back to ridgeless Romulans. It was silly in TNG episode Unification that everyone but Spock had ridges. Wouldn’t that have singled him out for not being a Romulan? Would’ve made it hard for him to blend in.

10. Battletrek - May 16, 2008

This has plot hole already! Kirk never met the Romulans til Balance of Terror.

11. Heywood Jablomee - May 16, 2008

Well, at least the Klingons get to put their feet up for this one, I’m sure they’re happy to have the blame shifted elsewhere. And what’s with the balding Romulans? Ain’t they heard of Rogaine in that part of the galaxy? Mugatu says he swears by it…

12. Captain Otter - May 16, 2008

OK, Battletrek, here’ the deal: the plot is about time travel. Anytime someone goes from the future to the past, some elements of the timeline will be disrupted. The time traveler can keep these changes to a minimum, or the changes may be massive- but there will be some changes.

For instance, prior to First Contact, who was on the flight with Cochran? Certainly not Riker and LaForge, right? So time-travel created an altered timeline.

In other words, by changing canon, they are actually keeping canon. Think about it.

13. Jeffrey S. Nelson - May 16, 2008

Ruffles have ridges…Romulans shouldn’t. Bald? Doesn’t mean they’re all bald…maybe an elite force that has this distinguishing look.

14. Charles Trotter - May 16, 2008

It’s been established that the film jumps around in time… how do we know the Romulan/Sulu fight scene *doesn’t* take place after “Balance of Terror”? Also, how do we know the Starfleet crew knows the aliens are even Romulans? Maybe they think they’re Vulcans gone bad, or some evil race that just happens to have pointy ears? We don’t know and won’t know until the movie comes out, so let’s not raise the red canon flag yet, folks. ;)

15. Charles Trotter - May 16, 2008

btw, awesome spoilers, Anthony. I look forward to more! :D

16. Izbot - May 16, 2008

6. Garth

My sentiments exactly! I’ve always disliked the bad wigs (Vulcan wigs, too) and that unneccessary forehead thingy. This is a welcome step in the right direction.

17. sebimeyer - May 16, 2008

What if the fact that the Federation had not met the Romulans for x amount of years was altered and that is why Nimoy Spock has to go back in time?

just saying. Just because you can’t think of a solution offhand, it doesn’t mean it won’t make sense in the end.

18. Denise de Arman - May 16, 2008

Man, the whole Romulan thing cuts right into the bone of Balance of Terror and blows the whole episode apart. Kirk even made a little speech to the ship explaining how Romulans had never been seen by the Federation, including the fact that the peace treaty was signed and the Romulan Neutral Zone established over a hundred years before. Perhaps an alternate universe story? Mr. Bob, I cannot wait to see how you handled this pretty big bump in the Trek road…

Well, at least the Romulans do not have ridges…

19. Cato the Llama - May 16, 2008

I suspected Nero would be Romulan . . . Nero was a Roman Emperor, and all references to the Romulans had something to do with Rome. (Praetors, Senates, Romulus and Remus, etc).

20. Sean - May 16, 2008

If time travel is involved in the movie then all canon is available to be changed. As a diehard Trekker I hope they don’t change too much, but I’m open to changing enough to breathe new life into the franchise.

21. Denise de Arman - May 16, 2008

Chuck#14- Okay, perhaps your shifting time theory might work. Sounds like it might be viable.

22. captmike - May 16, 2008

Well it seems to me that the romulans will be doing some pretty bad things. Hey maybe even the older spock will meet the younger spock in the movie. Now that would be kinda cool. But as much as i like time travel shows and movies i am a little tired of them as they have been done a lot. But heres to another time travel movie and i hope it’s a great one. Star trek 4 was fantastic as a time travel movie and first contact was a great seconed. The best time travel episode of all treks is the city on the edge of forever and the second was tommorow is yesterday. Third on the list is assingment earth.For the next generation the best is Yesterdays enterprise.There are others but to me those are the best time travel episodes. I just hope the new movie lives up to those listed above and be better.

23. captmike - May 16, 2008

One more. The next generation episode cause and effect was a great one as well. Great to see kelsey grammer as capt batesman of the starship bozeman.

24. Garovorkin - May 16, 2008

Great story but the the Cannon fanatics are are going to be crying foul on this one, but you what? I don’t care, the movie sounds like a lot of fun.

25. Eric Cheung - May 16, 2008

Maybe all artifacts from the future will be erased from the memories of the 23rd Century characters’ minds with an MiB neuralizer or that special surgery by Dr. Pulaski or something. History can be changed, but the crew won’t remember meeting people from the future and the Vulcans can still deny time travel until the crew gets surprised by it after escaping Psi 2000, etc.

26. Quatlo - May 16, 2008

I don’t care if the Rommies are Coneheads as long as they lose the cheap Moe Howard wigs.

27. DEMODE - May 16, 2008

I remember in Star Trek 6 that when they showed the Romulan Ambassador, he had no ridges at all. So having no ridges is definitely canon, as far as the TOS movies are concerned. It makes me wonder though why Romulans have ridges by the time of TNG. I know that they did it to make them look “more alien” on the show, but I would like to hear some explanation created for it. Best bet: genetic manipulation to create better, stronger Romulans.

28. girl6 - May 16, 2008

Thank gods no ridges! Hopefully no wig caps either…

29. DEMODE - May 16, 2008

27 continued…

Romulan government is also the type of power I could see making it mandatory for all Romulans to undergo genetic manipulation. They wouldn’t give their citizens a choice.

30. Danya Romulus - May 16, 2008

It was interesting how TNG seemed to make Vulcans and Romulans more different than they were in TOS, with the ridges and whatnot. I thought it was unfortunate that they also established that internally Vulcans and Romulans are quite different, even though it was necessary for the plot of one of my favorite TNG episodes, “The Enemy.” I thought it would have been more poignant if Vulcans and Romulans were identical physiologically.

31. Son - May 16, 2008

Certainly plenty of reason to be concerned about having Romulans pre-Balance of Terror. That said, I’m not. I think it’s good to take the focus of the franchise on the Romulans. After all, the Romulans DID come first in just about everything. First major interstellar war for Earth. First major antagonist aliens introduced in Star Trek. They are related to the Vulcans, the first species humans met.

This is the way to go. Klingons are recognizable, yes. But the Romulans are priceless. That’s a great way to go to get to your fan base. However, when you consider cannon, there may or may not be a conflict. Considering someone IS jumping back in time, the timeline is effectively altered. Which, from what we’ve heard, is what is being established in some manner. Star Trek-B : virtually the same as A, but some changes that are noticeable.

Also, someone mentioned First Contact and who flew on the ship. Clearly, it was Riker and LaForge. It has to be. After all, the Enterprise in Enterprise is (most likely…I believe mentioned in a throwaway line at the beginning of the series that Cochrane named the warp 5 ship himself…) named for the Enterprise-E. And then the Enterprise in the upcoming film is (most likely) named for the NX-01. And then the A is named for the original, B for A, C for B, D for C, and E for D. (Can’t leave out the Enterprise-J!) So if the E is named (presumably) for the NX-01, and that ship is (presumably) named for the Enterprise-E, then Riker and LaForge had to be on the Phoenix when it flew. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be a ship named Enterprise. It’d be the Phoenix or whatever.

32. Garovorkin - May 16, 2008

If its a great film who really cares. this obsession with perfect continuity becoming a royal pain, just forget about. its not that important. If it’s a great film that pleases the audience no one is going to raise the issue except the die hards.

33. Xai (CaNNons are for Pirates, caNon is for Trek) - May 16, 2008

31. Son – May 16, 2008

Sorry, but….huh?

34. the guy that never posts - May 16, 2008

More non canon nonsense:

So many books have purported to know what Vulcan is like or Romulus. I always imagined Vulcan as Las Vegas with 1950′s-1960′s style architecture. Vegas used to have some swank digs and I always imagined Sarek and Amanda living a quiet Zen/Rat Pack lifestyle. The swingingest couple on Vulcan. Remember Cochrane’s pad in “Metamorphosis” that’s what I’m saying, baby.

What’s that have to do with anything? Nothing. We are all free to use our imaginations.

What we don’t have and the Trek 11 team does is a team of experts to fact check and make things provable, not just believable. Why? Because Remus as presented in Nemesis can NOT exist. A planet heavy enough to have gravity without rotation would have all its atmosphere frozen in layers heavy to light on the night side and be completely barren on the day side. Azimov was the science guy for TOS. Too bad Berman & Moore never hired a professional scientist to fact check their soap operas.

Why don’t the Romulans have ridges? There’s probably a damned good reason for it and not “just because it looks cool” Pointy ears are enough for looking cool. Remember Kirsty Alley refused to shave her eyebrows for Khan. Robin Curtis was happy to shave her eyebrows for Spock & Home. I dont remember if Curtis had brow ridges for her guest appearance in TNG.

What I don’t like about Trek canon is how if something is presented on screen it becomes immutable fact and cant be changed. Was Ilia bald or are all Deltans bald? The Klingon Bird of Prey in Spock was a stolen Romulan ship. It even fired a plasma torpedo. BUT: Little kids with little imaginations incapable of accepting any but their own ideas turned the BoP into the wackiest and most over used Klingon ship in all of Trek. Is it a little scout ship with 12 officers and crew or 12 officers and unspecified number of crew. Throughout all of Trek, the BoP changes scale. How big is it? How small? Were the ships stamped out in a factory like Checker Cabs? (Checker used the same stamps for its entire run, even when engines and other parts changed to fit more streamlined cars)

I don’t care if Trek 11 is “canon” or not, as long as it makes SENSE. This is TREK rooted in science not Wars rooted in LOTR fantasy.

Now if Spock plucks his lyre and starts singing “The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins” that, would be awesome!

Not

Shatner should cameo as a hologram singing “Rocketman”

Yeah, baby

35. Garovorkin - May 16, 2008

This whole year is going to very unpleasant. and the outcrys of the diehards are going to get louder as film premier gets closer, im not even sure its going to abate even after, Maybe not, by the sound of things.

36. the guy that never posts - May 16, 2008

I think it would be coolest thing ever if as the credits roll, Shatner sings “Rocketman”

We should start a write in campaign.

Who’s with me?

37. Scott Xavier - May 16, 2008

Isnt this a reboot?

38. hitch1969© - May 16, 2008

I’m with you, the guy that never posts©.

BEST!!

=h=

39. Charles Trotter - May 16, 2008

#37 Scott Xavier — Not exactly, no. The filmmakers have stated that the movie will be set in pre-existing canon, but they won’t let canon interfere with telling a good story.

40. Irishtrekkie - May 16, 2008

Romulans are bald was at least partly to help distinguish them from the Vulcans

and wait they dont !!! have ridges ? why not i kinda like them , and it was
way easyer to tell the different , at the very least would it not have been better to
have some of them with the ridges or something

so all romulans are bald now thats kinda annoying i think i loved the romulan/vulcan type hair cut .

meh i guess i will get over it since the romulans are my fav aliens , and always wantet a movie with them in , and not a create a race remans and a picard clone that was nemisis,

they better keep the romian imperial undertones , but expand on the culture that would be cool .

41. ster j - May 16, 2008

Hmmm… How can we explain away those ridges???

The Roms didn’t show up again until the end of Season 2 of TNG, stating that they had had some internal issues for 60-some years, but now they were back. Perhaps those ridges were the result of some a rampant illness or radiation poisoning that affected their DNA. OR, perhaps the Praetor required that all Roms wear cranial implants so that the government could trace each of their people or that they could more easily control/communicate with them or that the people could more easily interface with their computers/ ships. That way, if they were running out of soldiers, a citizen could be pressed into service with no need for training. Just activate his/her implant.

Just a thought after too much caffeine. Whee!

42. Charles Trotter - May 16, 2008

#41. ster j — That doesn’t explain why they had the ridges in the 22nd century (on Enterprise), then they didn’t have ridges in the 23rd century (the original series & movies), only to get them back in the 24th century (TNG, etc.).

I always thought the ridged Romulans were those that were born and raised on Romulus while the ones without ridges were Vulcans like V’Las (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/V%27Las) who defected to the Romulan Star Empire. Or something like that. :)

43. Phaserman - May 16, 2008

Maybe in the next movie or this one as well the Klingons will be ridgeless.

44. Joseph Brown - May 16, 2008

I’m a little leery about the Romulans being bald, if all of them are, that is. However, I trust Abrams, Orci, Kurtzman, etc. and the film hasn’t been released, so, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt for now, at least. Plus, as long as the change can be explained away in a canonical way, it won’t bother me once I get used to the new look. But, I will admit all Romulans being bald is a bit disconcerting to me and it will take a good while for me to get used to this new look.

45. the guy that never posts - May 16, 2008

Last thought of the day, then I’ll leave everyone alone

After they remake Trek, do you think they can remake “The Black Hole” or “Unidentified Flying Oddball”

46. [The] TOS Purist aka The Purolator - May 16, 2008

The fact that they’re Romulans is something we’ve known for a long time, but thanks for filling in the details, ESPECIALLY the part about the lack of ridges. Dammit I hated those, particularly when they had the ridged bastards in “Enterprise!” But that show always spit on canon anyway (and then trampled on it…then crumpled it up and flushed it down the toilet, where it was eaten and digested by a crocodile in the sewers) so it didn’t really surprise me. I’m happy to see that Abrams is at LEAST doing that much. Maybe there is hope for this movie after all.

47. Charles Trotter - May 16, 2008

#45 the guy that never posts — There have been rumors that a Black Hole remake is coming, but there’s been nothing official. As for Unidentified Flying Oddball… um, I wouldn’t count on it. :)

Actually, strike that… given Hollywood now-a-days, look for a remake of Unidentified Flying Oddball to be in theaters around 2012. :P

48. the guy that never posts - May 16, 2008

John Travolta and Samuel L Jackson star in Quentin Tarantino’s Disney’s The Black Hole Co-Starring Uma Thurman Bruce Willis and Earnest Borgnine with Harvey Keitel as Dr Hans and Ving Rames as Max

Hilarity ensues!

I’ve had it with these MF asteroids on this MF Black Hole!

49. Sean4000 - May 16, 2008

This ridge-less Romulan thing sounds like honoring canon more than bending it.

50. fakesteve - May 16, 2008

Sounds cool to me. And canon is in good hands with JJ and Orci, I am sure.

51. KiMaSa - May 17, 2008

It only tangles existing canon if anyone in the 23rd century but Spock knows they are Romulans as opposed to Renegade Vulcans (Which ARE known to exist) or various other Vulcanoids.

52. Bill Peters - May 17, 2008

Sounds Really cool and Son #31 I love the time explanation. I think I am going to love this movie and hope it does well!

53. KiMaSa - May 17, 2008

The Baldness may; infact, be to keep them from looking too much like ROMULANS IE We the audience may KNOW they are Romulans but to paraphrase Captain Kirk “How will we (They) know what a Romulan will look like? They aren’t going to call ahead and identify themselves.”

54. STBSGBoy - May 17, 2008

Don’t know if anybody has mentioned this but if time-travel exists, then the possibilty of the Enterprise being pulled into a alternate universe at the end, might give way to a slight/greatly altered federation history and canon which could also spring a new TV series where they are free to make up a new canon like BSG. I’d welcome this personally Star Trek needs new life not just growth.

55. The Angry Klingon - May 17, 2008

Seeing as its a time travel episode I speculate that these Romulans are hybrids…from the picard clone Shinzon and…having introduced male pattern baldness in to the Romulan culture Nero travels back in time to make sure that a young Picard is never born thereby saving the Romulan Empire from a follicularly challenged future…

56. Enc - May 17, 2008

ok ill debate it. maybe
#5
VOY had told us that Quinn was responsible for a Romulan Vulcan war.
but ENT didnt do their reserch and have T’Pol state that the Vulcan havent had any problems w/ the Romulans (untill now).
(we’re not even going to get into the TNG looking ver of a TOS ship style operating in a pre-TOS era).

#6
I know it was a bit of a cute little observational funny. But. I mentiononed a few yrs back on the AOL board a comparison of romulans/vulcans and chimpanzee/bonobo. and ridges were a part of it.

#10
thats the why the Romulans this time are bald so you cant see the low forhead (like their vulcanian cousins). and kirk not in that fight.
sorry i was just being silly :)

#11
LMKAO

#14
for now ill agree to that.
we already know that their are other vulcanian species out there proto and otherwise. the entire picard gambit eps, wwtw, not to mention the chase and the preservers.

57. Spoilerhead - May 17, 2008

I know why Romulans don’t/do/don’t have ridges–but we don’t discuss it with outsiders. :P

58. number 3 - May 17, 2008

um..ok.. I didn’t read every post…but get this…what if the young Kirk & Co. dont know that these guys are romulans…canon problem solved.

59. S. John Ross - May 17, 2008

I don’t care what they do or don’t do to canon (obviously, with a time-travel story they can change whatever they feel like without actually contradicting anything), but if it does turn out that they’re openly contradicting TOS episodes, it’ll be very amusing to watch them try to keep peddling the “Shatner isn’t in it for story reasons” schtick ;)

Either way, a fine way to pass a year. Somebody pop up some popcorn for this :)

60. shat hands - May 17, 2008

Im glad the romulans are getting a chance. If you look pass the self-righteousness of the federation the romulans are pretty similar

61. Cheve - May 17, 2008

In TNG we see an episode in which they are studying a planet with “proto-vulcans” or a diferent brand of vulcans less evolved, and their ridges are more prominent than in romulans (and yet, they are called a “proto-vulcan” race, not a “proto-romulan” race)

Maybe there are diferent races in the planet, as happens with humans, where there are people that looks more “simian” than other people.

(I’m not saying that there is people less evolved than other people; I’m only saying that there is people that looks very very simian and people that doesn’t look simian at all, and we are all yet the same species and equally evolved)

Is perfectly possible and enough for me. I don’t even need any movie or future series to mention it at all or even show both brands together.

62. FredCFO - May 17, 2008

The “reboot” process has begun.

“Your vessel, your beginning, all that you knew is gone.”

63. SPOCK - May 17, 2008

It things like this from J.J.’s star trek which are making me like Star Trek: Enterprise, more and more.

64. Cato the Llama - May 17, 2008

Skimming through this I am seeing bits of talk of Canon and baldness and all of that.

I think we might be over analyzing baldness a little bit here. Who’s to say whether that’s canon or not? For all we know, Nero and his little crew do that as a sign of solidarity. Or maybe it’s just the fashion at the time. Romulans can change fashion, too — after all, Star Fleet uniforms went through how many changes in really short periods of time?

65. JJ broke the canon - May 17, 2008

If they can find away to have Romulans pre-Balance of Terror, why can they find away to have Shatner in the film.

Shatner isn’t in it for “story reasons” and so Romulans should not be it for “story reasons”.

66. AJ - May 17, 2008

#11:

Nice moniker.

I hope these Romulans have interesting personalities, and don’t walk around saying “Honor!” and “Battle!” That turned the Berman-era Klingons into Johnny-one-note idiots. His Romulans never seemed to have a defining characteristic, except for scheming and acting e-vil. Nothing like the honorable folks in TOS.

67. AJ - May 17, 2008

Anthony,

If the big bald guy with Sulu is, indeed, a Romulan, can we confirm that he has pointy-ears?

68. That One Guy - May 17, 2008

You know, I’m personally more accustomed to seeing Romulans with the pointed black haircut. I don’t know… I grew up with TNG, DS9, and Voyager, so I can’t really picture the “old-style” of Romulan.

Well, I hope that they look cool and have the good old-timey ships. People have been talking a lot about the new Enterprise, but what about the other ships? We’ve still got Klingons with the old D-6 Cruisers and Romulans with the Bird of Prey. What are THOSE ships going to look like? And are we going to see other classes of ships other than the Constitution? To my memory, I don’t remember ever seeing any other ship other than a Constitution-Class in any TOS episode.

Maybe it’s time to embark on the Saladin, maybe an early Miranda?

69. Charles Trotter - May 17, 2008

#58 number 3 — already covered that, see #14. :)

70. CanuckLou - May 17, 2008

The drilling rig bit is new to me. Fascinating!

As to the Romulans – never liked the TNG look. The fact that in the TOS series that Vulcans and Romulans were indistinguishable was a story opportunity never explored unfortunately. Maybe in ST XI it will be.

….the adventure continues….

71. RTC - May 17, 2008

I’m not a ‘canon fundamentalist,’ but Federation folk seeing the Romulans before “Balance of Terror” is one canon point I’d have a very hard time ignoring.

Still … I choose to trust JJ, Roberto and Alex. If BoT was a huge inspiration for them, it’s difficult to imagine that they’d just pooh-pooh that point. I’ve always believed that blowing off major points of canon is a result of laziness and lack of creativity — and we know these guys are brimming with creativity and energy.

Here’s to what will certainly be a great film!

72. eagle219406 - May 17, 2008

#12 For instance, prior to First Contact, who was on the flight with Cochran? Certainly not Riker and LaForge, right? So time-travel created an altered timeline.

In other words, by changing canon, they are actually keeping canon. Think about it.

Interesting theory. But how do we know that the flight and First Contact didn’t originally happen BECAUSE they were there and helped him? That happens sometimes in time travel stories.

73. eagle219406 - May 17, 2008

Many people are complaining about the ridges on the romulans but think about this, how do we know that it wasn’t that some had them and some didn’t. Looking at episodes of TOS that had Romulans, some of the crewmembers wore those dorky looking helmets. How do we know that they didn’t have ridges underneath them?

74. J C - May 17, 2008

POTENTIAL SPOILER ? Elder Spock , as ambassador to Romulous post TNG, must have stumbled on the Romulan plan .

75. Dom - May 17, 2008

Look at this way: the Romulans had ridged foreheads in the Berman Treks because the makers had a fetish for silly foreheads and noses on their non-human characters! Abrams doesn’t share that fetish and neither did anyone on TOS or the TOS movies.

As for the gang meeting the Romulans before Balance of Terror . . . well . . . ahem . . . time travel anyone?

Isn’t the drilling rig the gadget that apparently destroys Vulcan? The whole point of this film, I thought, is that Spock goes back in time to minimise damage to the timeline. Some things will inevitably change though, effectively creating a ”Universe-2″ for subsequent Treks to exist in.

76. The Last Maquis - May 17, 2008

I’m down with the No ridges thing, But Romulans (even in TOS) Had Hair!!
Jeez, If it were just Nero, That’d be Perfect, he’d be like “Chang” in STVI. but all of them, I’m sorry that’s just F*ckin’ lame. what about The Different colored tunic cape things, Red? Blue? Or is it the Same Old BORING silver Grey like In TNG? You Know They Could Be Bald but wear the old Gold helmets… that might be fine. oh and a Drilling Rig? What Are you F*ckin’ kidding me?? That’s Stupid. You’re Stupid. Let me guess, “Well the original trek was appealing Because Of the Social commentaries on our society at the time.”
Oil Drilling, I get it. (yawn.)

77. Cervantes - May 17, 2008

No ‘bumpy foreheads’ = Great!

But no hair? What the hell is wrong with hair? Bring back the hair!!

78. Captain Amazing!! - May 17, 2008

Thank God!!! No ridiculous ridges for the Romulans!!! YES!!!! Good Lord I hated that garbage. They looked…well, fake. Never understood why they did that…and I don’t buy the whole pile about how people would somehow have been too stupid to know the difference. Would that also include them being too stupid to pay attention to the story, dialog and costumes? Give me a break.

J.J., Rob, and company…you guys have my full confidence. If I could buy my ticket now I would.

79. That One Guy - May 17, 2008

Hmm…

It can still be considered canon to have humans meet Romulans prior to Balance of Terror because there was the Earth Romulan War which took place before The Original Series. If I’m not mistaken, didn’t it take place shortly after Enterprise?

80. DJ Koloth - May 17, 2008

No hair?

So what? What if they have helmets or fancy wigs on?

Also, what if Kirk and Co. don’t know WHO they’re up against? No canon problems…

81. Alex - May 17, 2008

Maybe Nero and his gang are some sort of religious cult or something. Many Vulcan priests were bald, too. Plus Shinzon, but I guess he doesn’t count. :-)

82. GUy from ARG - May 17, 2008

The ridged foreheads was a detail added by michael westmore to make the romulans more primitive, thereby more aimed to war , violence and conquer, than the vulcans counterparts.
This movie gonna rock!!!!

83. AJ - May 17, 2008

Has anyone here seen:”Lord of the Rings, How it Should Have Ended”? After the Council of Elrond, Gandalf hails an Eagle, and he and the hobbits fly directly to Mount Doom, and cast the One Ring into the top of the volcano and Sauron dies. Frodo says “that was easy!” And then they all fly back home. The End (Find it on YouTube).

JJ has to avoid the a scenario where Nero goes back in time, and Old Spock follows him to prevent him from killing Kirk.

Here are Spock’s choices: Go back and get involved with the whole rigmarole of meeting the young crew, and himself as a young man, and prevent Nero from hatching his plot.

Or, he goes back briefly in time and pushes little Nero’s pram into traffic.

No mess, same end result.

84. Heyberto - May 17, 2008

Forget the specifics of Canon… They’ve arleady set up many diferences in this movie… the fact that you have different actors playing these parts and overall, a new look then I feel its ok to take some liberties (god knows Berman did) as long as it serves the story and the broad strokes of Trek History.

The notion that each incident, dialogue, etc. must tie in exactly with what happend during the series is ludicrous. If it were a direct prequel, I’d feel differently…. but its not.

85. Xai - May 17, 2008

65. JJ broke the canon – May 17, 2008
“If they can find away to have Romulans pre-Balance of Terror, why can they find away to have Shatner in the film.

Shatner isn’t in it for “story reasons” and so Romulans should not be it for “story reasons”.”

We don’t know all the details of Shatner’s absence or how we’ll see Romulans pre-BoT. But maybe they’ll explain it all in a bout a year and if they don’t you may lead the chorus of “I told ya so’s”. Until then may clearer heads prevail.

86. Ack! My Leg Is Asleep! - May 17, 2008

I think they should permanently can the ridged foreheads – it could be a side effect of the time travelling. I hated the ridges…I liked it so much better when the ‘aliens’ weren’t deformed in the face – and ‘deformed’ rather uniformly.

ST’s answer to new alien species: “Bring out the face putty!!” Yuck.

I <3 the Romulans and think they’re incedibly under-used and under-developed, so I’ll take what I can get. =D

Just don’t find a way to sneak Denise Crosby in, PLEASE!

87. KJTrek - May 17, 2008

no ridges=good, no cool hairpieces=awwwww

88. Kurt - May 17, 2008

Has anyone ever considered that Kirk and co. meet the Romulans in old Spock’s timeframe? Why are we assuming that old Spock goes back? Why can’t the young crew go forward?

89. Vulcan Soul - May 17, 2008

They want to blow up a planet? My – how original ;)

90. The Quickening - May 17, 2008

Excerpts from 2045 Science Fiction Dictionary:

time travel–
lame, clique sci-fi gimmick, used as an easy and lazy story device to dumb-down material to make a story more accessible to the widest possible audience; overused device in late 20th century and early 21th century science fiction movies and TV series.

bald aliens–
usually appeared in second rate films and television series to create a different “look” to aliens when the production lacked money or creative and imaginative minds.

Romulans–
an uninteresting antagonist in the STAR TREK science fiction franchise; too cerebral an enemy to be menacing and were too passionless to create fear and tension; they did like to talk a lot though; appeared in the 2002 movie STAR TREK NEMESIS, a bomb nobody was interested in seeing, and certainly made good sense to use them again in the 2009 film, STAR TREK.

91. Q - May 17, 2008

Isn’t this the black dude from StarGate SG1? I’m talking about the black bold romulan for Sulu to fight.

92. Cervantes - May 17, 2008

#90 The Quickening

Scary when it’s put that way…fingers tightly crossed then!

93. sherlockfreak - May 17, 2008

No V-ridge, thank god…

not sure how I feel about them all being bald, though.

But mostly, hooray for Romulans!!! I’ve missed them…

94. eagle219406 - May 17, 2008

#79 Hmm…

It can still be considered canon to have humans meet Romulans prior to Balance of Terror because there was the Earth Romulan War which took place before The Original Series. If I’m not mistaken, didn’t it take place shortly after Enterprise?

It is true that they did encouter Romulans. But they never saw one face to face. They saw their ships and spoke to them Audio only. It was like the Vorlons on Babylon 5. They encountered them all the time, but they didn’t know what they looked like because they always wore a special suit. In Enterprise, there were a few episodes with Romulans. The first one, “Minefield,” we saw only their ships. In a fourth season episode, we did see the Romulans, but the humans never did. And the Andorian that piloted the drone was blind, and he died at the end. The only time that the Romulans saw the humans aboard the drone, they were wearing space suits, so other than the fact that they were bipeds and the build was similar to them, they saw nothing. By the time the humans were able to remove their helmets, the Romulans visual link was out. I can’t say that nobody ever saw a Romulan. Who is to say that a few have seen Romulans, just nobody lived to tell about it?

95. eagle219406 - May 17, 2008

#91 YOu mean Teal’c?

96. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - May 17, 2008

Locke and Ben timeslip the Enterprise which is being built on the island(that’s why we see it being built on Earth it’s the island in an alternate timestring) moving it and the crew forward past Balance of Terror (hence Sulu fighting a Romulan) When an elder Spock finally helps Ben and Locke set the timeline right which folds into the beginning of the five year mission (after seeing timeline jumps of Kirk and Spock’s academy days, Kirk and Spock’s youth and family and the future TOS fight with Romulans) Spock helps timeslip the island back in time to the early 1880′s where Locke wakes up surrounded by scraggly looking pirates who call him Jacob and hail him as their leader. Locke can not remember who he is or how he got there

97. Ves - May 17, 2008

Romulans always had ridges, but following the events of the Enteprise Romulan Drone Ship arc, they decided to build manned ships that could twirl around and do acrobatics like the drone ship. Unfortuantly the inertial dampeners failed, and all the Romulans smashed their heads against the consoles so hard they crushed their ridges and they didn’t pop back up for another 200 years.

There. Two canon issues solved.

98. Dennis Bailey - May 17, 2008

“Enterprise” did a great job with the Romulans; hopefully this movie will do even better.

99. VOODOO - May 17, 2008

“the object is actually a drilling rig being used by the Romulans and that is related to an attempt to destroy a planet”

Does this report back up the story on AICN last year that suggested that the planet Vulcan was destroyed?

100. Eric Cheung - May 17, 2008

Romulus is presumably a big planet and a lot of time has passed since they left Vulcan. Perhaps there are environments similar to Vulcan on Romulus, so people there look basically the same and perhaps there are environments that caused the Romulans evolve the ridges. There’s plenty of room for both. I like that Romulus would have both. I loved that Star Trek III showed Vulcans played by people of different races. There needs to be more diversity within each alien species in Star Trek, not less.

And I agree with the theory that Nero’s men shaved their heads out of solidarity. They could be renegade Romulans not officially sanctioned by their government similar to when Dukat had his Klingon Bird of Prey, or the Klingon enemies in Star Trek III and V. BTW, I wonder if the Romulans became more friendly with the Federation after their alliance in the Dominion War and the Battle at Bassen Rift in Nemesis.

But again, I don’t think seeing Romulans pre-five year mission is too big a deal if their memory gets wiped somehow at the end of the movie. It would also solve the problem of the crew being shocked at the death of Spock as discussed earlier. Spock could even reveal how he comes back to life only to take that information away at the end of the film and go back to his home time.

101. Eric Cheung - May 17, 2008

98. Agreed!

102. Lurker - May 17, 2008

So much talk about “Ridges…” …Are we talking about Romulans here, or Potato Chips??

;-)

(Excuse me if someone’s already made this joke…)

103. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - May 17, 2008

#5—”…but if you get the original crew too involved with Romulans, isn’t that a big problem? At Balance of Terror, Kirk & Crew didn’t know who the Romulans were related too– just rumors.”

In the original timeline…absolutely. However, with the Romulans being “knee deep in (time travel)”, that could all change very quickly. Whether the original timeline is eventually restored or not, who knows, but even if not, I’m not so sure its a BIG problem at all.

“I would rather see Klingons myself…”

Not me. That has been done, overdone, and overdone again. The only real attempt to visit the Romulans as villains in a ST movie was NEM, and it was poorly done.

Like the article states above, “…the original draft for Star Trek III: The Search for Spock had Romulans as the antagonists but Paramount had it switched to the more familiar Klingons. ”

I would have preferred they stick to the original plan. The whole idea of Klingons in a ship painted like a bird of prey was a huge canonical mistake in TSFS. It is clear in BOT that decorating warships like that is a ROMULAN cultural practice, not a Klingon one. It is one thing to infer that Klingons and Romulans are sharing ship designs (TEI) and cloaking technology, but asking me to buy the notion that Klingons would also paint those ships in a Romulan fashion is a bit much. Klingons in the TOS-era were very sophisticated and undoubtedly had their own ideas and cultural practices. I wish they would have paid more attention to that.

Anyway, Klingons have been done to death, and rebooted as a race to the point that they are not even recognizable as the same villains seen in TOS (and not just because of the ridges).

On another note, I am also of the opinion that Romulans should not have ridges. They are not SUPPOSED to be so distinguishable from Vulcans! I understand the theory that the ridges appeared as a result of Romulans continuing to eveolve on a different planet than the Vulcans, but I never liked the idea.

104. Trekkie16 - May 17, 2008

My theory: The Romulans could not stop Spock in the future from reunification of the planet. A rogue group that does not want peace, goes back in time to destroy Spock and/or earth to prevent Spock from becoming a great ambassador and unifying Romulus.

105. jeffNdallas - May 17, 2008

Have you never seen a group of Army Rangers? They certianly seem to have similar haircuts….could be a military unit thing…shaved heads is very common for elite military units…

As for canon, I could care less…BSG has made a believer out of me for reinvigorating something dated… I think JJ and the crew will do their best to honor TOS but give it more of an edge and some reality….If I wanted to go on a cruise, I would call Royal Caribbean and sail on Freedom of the Seas….I don’t need an Enterprise of the Seas (TNG carpeting and wood grain…lol)…those spy shots from the refueling station certainly gave the appearance of BSG type reality versus everything being so clean and neat….

While I enjoyed the new Speed Racer because it brought back fond memories…It was basically a live version of the cartoon…I don’t want XI to be like that…I want something new and exciting and I think JJ is going to deliver on this….

So, give it a chance guys…Any Trek is better than no Trek…

106. sean - May 17, 2008

Hey, here’s a crazy explanation for the disappearing/reappearing forehead ridges – DIFFERENT MAKEUP ARTISTS. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Gee, that wasn’t hard at all! ;)

Seriously though, you guys are going to go crazy trying to explain away every error and inconsistency in Trek. Just accept each movie/episode as that particular director’s take on Trek, and you’ll live happier, far less stressful lives. I, for one, could have done without Enterprise’s goofy explanation for ridgeless Klingons (which still failed to explain a great deal).

As for the baldness factor, who says all Romulans are bald in JJ’s version of Trek? All we know is that Nero’s unit are bald, and for all we know that might have something to do with them being an elite battle squad or something. There’s no need to jump to conclusions.

107. Vulcan Soul - May 17, 2008

I’m surprise no one has pointed out YET ANOTHER similiarity with “Nemesis”: supposedly “fresh air” with new directors and writers, lotsa action, Romulans, baldies, blowing up planets, a rugged dark look… what is next?

108. SChaos1701 - May 17, 2008

How bout we wait until the movie comes out and we see this for ourselves before making any premature judgments. Calm down canonistas.

109. Dom - May 17, 2008

My theory: Nero and his cohorts travel back in time committing a series of acts of temporal terrorism, including destroying Vulcan, possibly killing Kirk’s father and causing Christopher Pike’s accident, resulting in a modified timeline. All future Treks ***can*** still possibly happen, but not quite in the same way!

So Balance of Terror can still happen, but the background to events will be silghtly at variance to before. We’ve seen ‘canonical reboots’ before many times in comics (notably most recently in Spider-Man.)

As for the bald Romulans, army officers often have very short hair and many shave their heads. Not to mention, there are tons of neo-fascist ‘skinheads’ out there. The shaved head look might just be part of their military discipline.

I’m just relived that the ‘deformed’ look for non-humans has gone. I’ll be interested to see how the Klingons look. With a little luck, we’ll get something closer to the Klingons of TMP, with the scary contact lenses and obvious cunning and intelligence.

The whole ‘drunken Viking’ Klingon thing came from Christopher Lloyd’s rogue Klingon crew (who were obviously scumbags and pirates and not representative of all Klingons) being mistakenly used as the template by later production teams.

110. DGill - May 17, 2008

Hahahah, with bald Romulans in the mix, I bet Picard and Sisko feel less special now. :D

111. diabolk - May 17, 2008

We still don’t know for sure that old Spock tells anyone who he is. He could use the name Selek for all we know.

112. Admiral_Bumblebee - May 17, 2008

There seems to be a purpose for the Romulans having no ridges. When they travel back in time, to a time no one has ever seen a Romulan, everyone will just think that they are bald Vulcans. If they had the ridges, everyone would suspect that they are some kind of “new” alien.
So, when Sulu and Kirk fight Nero and his gang, it could well be that they do not know they are Romulans. They could just think that they are some kind of renegade Vulcans.

As for the drilling rig that is meant to destroy a planet: Some time ago I posted my “idea” that Nero is trying to blow up Vulcan in the past in order to prevent the Federation and Vulcan to make peace with the Romulan Empire. Hmmmm…. ;)
At first he could succeed, changing the present (24th Century). Only Spock is aware of the changes and travels back in time in order to prevent Nero from blowing up Vulcan.
That would make sense as Orci said that one of his favourite TNG episodes was Yesterdays Enterprise in which something similar happened.

It even would allow for Shatner to appear as old Kirk as in the changed timeline he could still be alive… ok, one can dream…

And in some report it was stated that we would see more than one Enterprise and one would be a warship. Maybe some kind of Enterprise-F in the changed 24th Century being at war with the Romulans?
Maybe old, alive Kirk is the captain of this warship Enterprise… ok, ok, I stop :)

113. Bryan with Pointy Nacelles and a Large Dish - May 17, 2008

I am happy the Romulans with be the antagonists…Klingons are soooooooo passe’
I am so hoping to like this movie. I hope they don’t change my Trek up too much.
1966 does seem like such a long time ago.

114. Rastaman - May 17, 2008

So what if JJ violates canon on the Romulans! I would much rather he included the Romulans and violated that one sentence of Trek lore for two solid hours of Trek entertainment. Certainly better than using Klingons … again. Anyways, it’s time travel, so seriously, canon is out the window.

115. RoMario - May 17, 2008

-Then..what is the difference between a vulcan and a romulan…?

116. Norm - May 17, 2008

I pray there are no Remans in this. That whole idea was horrible. Romulas & Remus should have been ocuppied by just Romulians.

117. sean - May 17, 2008

With regard to alien looks, I’d prefer a balance between TOS & TNG, with someone finally showing us an alien-looking alien, instead of yet another human that spilled shoe polish on his face (TOS) or a humanoid that fell face-first into playdough (TNG). Let’s have some Hortas, Species 8472 & the like.

118. VOODOO - May 17, 2008

Trekkie 16 # 104

AICN reported this last year. Vulcan is destroyed.

Isn’t this old news if it is to be believed?

119. Norm - May 17, 2008

I’m also not wild about the Klingons in the B&B years. They’ve turned into nothing but wild long haired Cavemen on a ship. You wonder how the heck they ever got into space to begin with. I hope JJ goes back to a more cunning militaristic Klingon like TOS with a more civilized look with short hair & bumps.

120. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - May 17, 2008

#115—Their cultural development, and nothing more. they both originated on Vulcan. A group of Vulcans left the planet and eventually founded the Romulan Star Empire. Vulcan history and civilization is far older than our own, and so is their warp capability. The group which left Vulcan so long ago maintained the pre-Surak martial philosophy and never felt the need to “control” their emotions and passion. They are—distant cousins…

#116—I did not like Nemesis, but is it really unreasonable to believe that their are conquered peoples within the Romulan Star Empire who might fill in a subservient role? It is, after all, an empire. There isn’t much of anything about NEM I cared for at all, but I can respect the intention of showing some of that type of thing. I think that is what the Remans were. The Romulans had to conquer someone when they reached Romulus and Remus. They obviously intended for the Remans to be cannon fodder and slave labor. That’s okay with me. That does not justify the crap that is Nemesis, but there is nothing inherently wrong with that part of the concept, IMO. Are we to believe that the Romulans simply exterminate everyone they conquer. That is quite impractical logistically, and a bit demeaning to the Romulans, as I have always seen them as a sophisticated race, albeit ruthless. Surely they have a need for a lesser class of laborer within their imperial society, and conquered peoples would seem to fit the bill for that purpose.

121. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - May 17, 2008

#119—It is not the look that bothers me so much, aside from the fact that TNG-era Klingons always look as though they have some kind of aversion to bathing. TOS-era Klingons were cunning and sophisticated. TNG-era Klingons were portrayed as feudalistic, hair-brained barbarians. TOS Klingons like Kor and Kang were ruthless opponents, but they were quite capable of as much cunning and intelligent thought as any human being. On that, we completely agree. The TNG-era ruined the Klingons, with all the emphasis on “honor” and being a warrior, etc. They were originally the technological and military equals of the Federation. Are we to believe that the Praxus incident sent them into such regression that 75 years later they are numbskulled savages in spaceships?
Did the Chernobyl incident reduce the Russians to the stone age?
Please. TNG, DS9, etc. went much too far with the de-evolution of the Klingon.

122. Barry - May 17, 2008

This film will be the biggest ever- OR the biggest FLOP.

Don’t think there is room for in-between. I still worry.

123. Norm - May 17, 2008

#121 Well B&B had no idea where to go with their look in Enterprise because they were wearing skins in that series. Which really made them look like Neanderthals on ships.

124. Jamie - May 17, 2008

What I love about the Romulans is that they always seem so sneaky and clever and a bit slimy. To me, a bald head doesn’t say this, it says “tough guy”, not clever and slimy.

I liked their black hair and all that. Made them look like a real unified species (like the Cardassians). Surely just shaving off humans’ hair is just going to look like humans, with no uniformity or ‘colour coding’?

125. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - May 17, 2008

Poopey Pants, much like Lord Garth is right on target once again!!!! Good lord though I hope we get at least one Klingon Navajo Viking tea ceramony and I hope they where those cheezy fright teeth that makes the actors lisp heavily when they talk.

126. Gorn Captain - May 17, 2008

Ok heres my complete speculation and guessing!

I say that Nero leads a group of 24th century extremists. These rebel Romulans are like terrorists that don’t want the Federation and Romulus being all buddy buddy after the events of Nemesis. So Nero’s extremists all shave their heads, since they are cool like that. So they go back in time to stop Kirk/Enterprise/Federation and they…perhaps hijack a starship. So these romulans are like ‘terrorists’, mirroring the extremists of today…since Star Trek has always done that kind of thing. Now Orci needs to tell me how close I am! haha

127. diabolk - May 17, 2008

The idea of Romulans corrupting the timeline is not original. It happened in a big story arc in the DC comics some years ago. Let’s hope this is not too similar.

128. COD bigredone - May 17, 2008

I don’t care what or how the Romulans are portrayed. I still want to have sex with that hot Romulan Commander that Kirk got to kiss. Man,,,after 40 years I still dream of her.

129. AJ - May 17, 2008

121: Mr. Poopeyface (LOL):

I agree with regard to the Klingons. TNG, I believe, had something with “Heart of Glory,” which was an attempt to make them seem noble. The two “old-style” renegades and that cool-as-hell Captain who balanced understanding of the old ways with duty. Cool. No wide-eyed Gowron on Red Bull or ugly Klingon women (Lursa and B’etor) trying to install a teenager as Chancellor.

The final poop was the retcon of the three superb TOS Klingons in DS9 into 24th century cartoon characters.

In general terms, DS9 was the deathknell of Trek. Reasons:

1. Dumbed down the Klingons
2. Over-used the mirror universe
3. Never defined the Romulans except to make them annoying and inconsistent (cloaking device on Defiant. Remember that woman? “I’m not here to make friends!” Where did she go?)
4. Made Odo’s people into Johnny-one-note whiners who wouldn’t listen to reason, so they hired a fleet of morons from the Beta Quadrant to do their dirty work (Good thing Jeff Combs was in charge).
5. Section 31

There was also a lot of good stuff in DS9, but it was a nail in the coffin for the Trek.

130. Cayce Pollard - May 17, 2008

I haven’t read all of the comments but i have to say here that I am sure the issue with the Romulans will be addressed in the movie. I have faith.

I think the Romulans are such a great and relatively under-explored adversary for our crew, that no matter what, it is worth bringing them into the theatrical realm. I think it’s pretty cool.

131. Junker Jorge - May 17, 2008

Great. I think instead of the Starship Enterprize they should all cruise around in a 92′ Ford Aerostar. Scotty could live in a trailer in the back. Also Kirk should be a black woman. Who is gay.

132. Junker Jorge - May 17, 2008

And has cancer.

133. sean - May 17, 2008

#129

I’ll have to disagree with you on DS9, aside from the fact that the mirror universe did get overused (by about 2 episodes). But to me, DS9 treated the Romulans & the Klingons with a great deal of respect (far more than VOY). And how could you not enjoy Kang, Koloth & Kor in DS9?? The episode where Kor fought something like 12 Jem’Hadar ships with one Bird of Prey was excellent.

134. Cranston - May 17, 2008

NO RIDGES!

I am now happy.

135. Heywood Jablomee - May 17, 2008

Junker Jorge…LOL!!

136. Dennis Bailey - May 17, 2008

AICN never reported that “Vulcan is destroyed.”

Never. Reported. That.

What did happen was that “Moriarity” wrote a piece based on a conversation with someone he had who supposedly knew the plot of the movie. “Moriarity” reported that the continuity of the “Trek Universe” might be permanently altered by time travel.

He then suggested, “Maybe this timeline features dramatic differences. Like… say… if Vulcan were to be blown up. If the Vulcans in the series were suddenly the last of their kind, alone in the universe, it would change who they are and maybe even redefine their strict rejection of emotion in favor of logic.”

It was an example, a f’rinstance. Even if he knew it to be true, he didn’t report it as a rumor about what *would* happen in the film but as the *kind* of thing that *might* happen in the film.

The article is here:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/33832

137. Tal-Shair Major Lorina (with hair) - May 17, 2008

Ridges – sure, get rid of them.

Hair – Really?!?!? Bald?!?! Oh. oh. :( I think the hair has been one of my favorite things besides the ears. If I don’t get to see one Romulan with a full head of hair in this movie, I’m gonna be sadly disappointed. I don’t mind a change back to a more natural cut, but bald?!?! The hair is one of the things that have characterized the Romulans. The TOS haircuts reminded me of a Roman theme (as in our planet). When I think of a bald Romulan, I keep picturing a Vulcan monk, and I’m not really feeling the enthusiasm. I had pictured Eric Bana as a Romulan WITH hair.

I know this sounds really whiney, but I just can’t help it. Please say this is a bad rumor.

138. Tal Shiar Major Lorina (with hair) - May 17, 2008

Whoops, that should have been Tal Shiar.

139. Dennis Bailey - May 17, 2008

Yul Brynner would have been a badass Romulan.

140. Xai - May 17, 2008

90. The Quickening – May 17, 2008

wow, glad you clued us in on how bad this film is. I thought no one had seen it yet.

141. Mr. Poopey face (the poster formerly known as Closettrekker) - May 17, 2008

#133—I enjoyed some of DS9, but I hated the way in which the Klingons were portrayed. Kor and Kang were depicted as dumbed-down as the rest of the TNG-era Klingons were. As I said earlier, Klingons were never supposed to be as barbaric, feudalistic, and disgusting as portrayed in the 24th Century. TOS-era Klingons were as sophisticated and intelligent as their counterparts in the UFP. I realize that the Praxus incident weakened them somewhat (economically), but to regress their entire culture to that degree was awful. The original Klingons cared nothng about “honor”, did not eat live food and drink bloodwine, sing ridiculous drinking songs, or participate in animalistic rituals. Watch “Errand Of Mercy”, “Day Of The Dove”, or “Friday’s Child”. Those Klingons were fearsome and ruthless, but also quite intelligent and cunning. They did not prefer dated swords to disruptors or eat the hearts of their enemies, as in the later wild interpretation of them as a race. They were out to conquer and plunder for the benefit of their empires, but Kor and Kang were originally depicted as the intellectual equals of JTK. Seeing Kor in DS9 and the way his character had regressed was insult added to injury for the Klingons. I couldn’t care less about the physical changes, but if I had not heard them called “Klingons”, I wouldn’t even recognize them from their culture and behavior. It is funny how so many worry about the new film being a “reboot”. Didn’t Berman and co. already do that with an entire species of TOS villains?

I’ll say it again…The TNG-era ruined the Klingons. But that’s just my opinion…

142. Cranston - May 17, 2008

#139 – Truer words were never said.

143. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - May 17, 2008

Tor Johnson as Romulan enforcer
Telly Savalas as Romulan detective numero uno baby
Lt. Ilea as Romulan spy
Gordon Liu as Romulan kung Fu master
Sinade OConner as Romulan Socialist meloncolly singer
Michael Jordan as Romulan Basketball All Star Point Guard
Barry Bonds as Romulan Steroid dealer

144. sean - May 17, 2008

#141

Hmmm, I have to disagree, for the most part. I don’t think Kor or Kang were ‘dumbed down’ in any way, shape, or form. Kang was just as commanding and threatening as he was in ‘Day of the Dove’, as was Kor (let’s face it – Koloth was about as threatening as a Care Bear in ‘The Trouble With Tribbles’). The guy went out fighting overwhelming odds.

In fact, watching the episodes with Kor reminded me of what I did enjoy about the original BSG – John Colicos. He could be both frightening and appealing at the same time, which I think underscores what I like about the Klingons when they are done right. I agree there were some episodes that neutered the Klingons to a degree, or treated them poorly. But DS9 – for the most part – showed a great fondness for the Klingons as a culture, particularly in the form of General Martok (plus DS9 actually treated Worf with greater respect than TNG ever did).

Even TNG had bright spots for the Klingons – ‘The Enemy’, ‘Sins of the Father’, ‘Reunion’ & ‘Redemption’ all contained strong portrayals of Klingons, and they weren’t just shown as being stupid or dumb. They were multi-faceted – sometimes honorable, sometimes treacherous, unpredictable and ruthless. Really, it was Voyager that had nothing but contempt for Klingons, personified in B’Elanna’s complete distaste for her culture. She was the worst Klingon, like, EVER. As far as hybrids go, give me K’Ehleyr, any day of the week.

145. Joseph Brown - May 17, 2008

#141, I totally disagree with you. For one thing, Klingon culture and society in TOS was one dimensional along with most of the Klingons. Only Kor, Kang, and Koloth had any depth and they were only two dimensional. In TNG and DS9, the Klingons had so much more depth. Also, while their culture in some ways was barbaric that’s because it was based on a mix of Samurai and Viking warrior culture. TOS Klingon culture was just based on a very stereotypical view of the Russians. Another thing is I don’t think the Klingons were dumbed down one wit. DS9 made Kor, Kang, and Koloth three dimensional. Okay, Kor was made into an alcoholic whose age had also diminished him, especially his mental faculties. Even so, he was a very compelling and strong character, eventhough he sometimes acted like a fool.

Still, this is just my opinion.

146. The Last Maquis - May 18, 2008

116. Norm, what’s a “Romulian?” and Where’s “Romulas?”

147. AJ - May 18, 2008

145 Joseph:

“Viking warrior culture” was as much built on the fine Scandinavian art of consensus building and community service as the hewing of sinew and consumption of mead.

The only thing the latter-day interpretations of Kor, Koloth and Kang had going for them were the performances of the actors beneath the latex. The “albino” story was lame, and Kor was turned into an alcoholic because DS9 was essentially a big bar in space, and Klingons seemed relegated to drinking and fighting there. Gowron was reduced from a character of some modesty and wisdom in TNG into a wide-eyed screaming idiot in DS9. Though, I must say, I have some lingering good memories of Martok.

148. AJ - May 18, 2008

146:

WE NOW RETURN TO STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION

Alien: “Your presence is not wanted. Do you understand my meaning, Captain? We… are back.”

Picard: “Smashing. And just who the hell are you anyway?”

Alien: “We are…the Romulians!”

Silence.

Picard: “Mr. Data?”

Data: “Romulians is a technical term for a festering genital wart on Cestus III, and is also currently a featured Pasta dish at “Guido’s Family Place” in Brooklyn. No reference to a race or species.”

Picard (to Alien): “I don’t believe you. Where do you come from?”

Alien: “Romulas…?”

I am sure it’s just a typo.

149. Dom - May 18, 2008

Hi Dennis (136)

Well you’ve gotta admit, the planet killer device does chime rather well with the whole ‘destruction of Vulcan’ concept. ;) Personally, I hope it is true.

150. The Quickening - May 18, 2008

140. Xai wrote:
wow, glad you clued us in on how bad this film is. I thought no one had seen it yet.

No, I clued into some poor decisions that I think the production has made so far. I didn’t say a thing about whether the film is good or bad. How could I, I haven’t seen it yet?

I happen to be sick to death of time travel stories. Is this the only science fiction theme people in Hollywood can do? Nor, am I a fan of Abram’s and crew’s decision to give us 60s go-go boots with mini-shirts; bald headed aliens; and Romulans, who have just never worked for me. Klingons are just more interesting as villains and have never been given a detailed treatment in the TREK movie series. Rather, they have just been used as shallow, evil foils to the plot. Romulans have appeared twice and have left no lasting impression in my book.

151. Tango - May 18, 2008

If they change around canon–it would be nice if they “hang a lantern on it”–that’s movie term for having the characters acknowledge it in the script.

152. Dennis Bailey - May 18, 2008

#149:”If they change around canon–it would be nice if they “hang a lantern on it”–that’s movie term for having the characters acknowledge it in the script.”

You watch “Stargate?” Cool. LOL

153. Charles Trotter - May 18, 2008

For the record, I think the Romulan in that set photo is actor Bill T. Brown. He announced he was playing a Romulan officer on his website.

http://billtbrown.com/news.php?item=18
http://billtbrown.com/news.php?item=22

154. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - May 18, 2008

For the record the best Next Gen era portrail of aliens were the Narn and Centauri. And Poopey pants is right on the money baby!!! And I never saw and episode of Stargate or any of the spinoffs, Bailey, guys, am I missing out???

155. Mark in PA - May 18, 2008

As I said in and earlier post, could Nero be James Tiberius Kirk’s son? I don’t immediately recall the name of the episode, but Kirk posed as a Romulan to steal the cloaking devise and had an encounter with a female Romulan commander. Old Spock would be torn. Nero would Kirk’s only living offspring (remember Kirk already sacrificed one son to save Spock). In addition Nero would be a halfbreed and have been ridiculed by his fullblooded peers just as Spock would have been as a youth for being half human

156. Mark in PA - May 18, 2008

Nero would be Kirk’s only offspring. Sorry I omitted “be.” If the villians were all half human and half romulan that might explain why they were hairless and ridgeless.

157. Brian - May 18, 2008

You guys need to relax. Who cares if it’s canon or not.

Look what sticking to canon has gotten Star Trek so far….cancelled shows and BOMB movies.

I look forward to a new vision of Star Trek.

So shut up and enjoy it. Because if this doesn’t work…we won’t see Star Trek again until we’re all retirement age. ;0(

158. Mr. Bob Dobalina - May 18, 2008

No Frankenstein brows on the Romulans? No bad Moe Howard wigs?

Excellent.

159. Bert Fersner Happy Fun Hour Rodeo Clown Codpiece - May 18, 2008

It’s called a Redux, people. It can change anything they want to, being unbound by canon. Hell, they could even have Data beam in from the future and meld with V-Ger if they really wanted to.

160. MORN SPEAKS - May 18, 2008

I prefer bumpy Romulans, but if it is a TOS story they can change it, BUT part of the movie is in TNG time so if the Romulans are shown then, they SHOULD have bumpy heads!

It seems stupid to debate this, but they’re my favorite villians. Don’t MESS IT UP!

Also, this seems to be an age thing, I’m sure older trek fans want the sans bumpy heads, whereas “newer” fans prefer the bumps.

161. RoMario - May 18, 2008

# 120 ..If i remember well..the romulans are more related with klingons…anyway in tng..more species..like klingons ,vulcans humans and romulans have common ancesters..anyway i don’t like the returning to TOS because personally i grew up watching ‘the adventures of Data’ ..’not the
adventures of Spock’..and Ds-9 is my favorite show..

162. Laserlover2254 - May 18, 2008

#109:
More like they liked and followed what the rogue Klingons in “Heart of Glory” believed in as “the True Way”, even though it was what made them criminals in the first place.

#34:
Hmm, you have a point, there. I saw TSFS, and I think I can see what you mean: I knew that the Bird-of-prey was a Romulan model, but now I can remember how that torpedo effect DID resemble a Plasma Torpedo. …Rather interesting.

163. eagle219406 - May 18, 2008

I am wondering why people keep talking about the Romulan ridges. I mean DO all Humans look alike. NO. Some of us have lighter skin than others and some like asians who look a little different around the eyes. Humans come in different shapes and sizes and races. Why can’t aliens be the same? In case nobody gets what I am saying, why couldn’t it be the fact that Some Romulans had Ridges, and some didn’t? Even in TOS, there were Romulans who wore those dorky looking helmets. How do we know that they didn’t have the ridges underneath them?

164. Denise de Arman - May 18, 2008

Mark#155 & #156- Go back and watch The Enterprise incident again. Kirk did not have an encounter with the very beautiful, intelligent and scheming Romulan commander – Spock did. She was drooling over Spock from the moment he and Kirk stepped onboard the Romulan vessel, and Spock was amazingly hot as he pretended to betray Kirk and accept her seductive advances… one of my favorite episodes, as Spock’s character showed a totally different side, a very yummy, sexy side.

165. Jack - May 18, 2008

More importantly, if ruffles potato chips are a sponsor/tie-in, will ruffles still have ridges?

166. Thomas - May 18, 2008

159. With a screen name like yours, you must be the ghostwriter of all the Red Hot Chili Peppers’ songs, right?

167. Adam Dickstein - May 18, 2008

At this point I’m so stoked that there’s going to be a Kirk/Spock/McCoy-no bloody A, B, C, D or E film that I’m not worried about or expecting any attention to canon. At the same time, why go out of your way to have Romulans in a prequel-like movie when even generally familiar fans know about the ‘Balance of Terror’ element to the story?

Also…didn’t we just see the Romulans? I mean, in the last movie, forgettable as it was, the Romulans and Remans were the main antagonists. Oh well, until the films comes out I suppose we won’t know how it plays so I guess I’ll just sit back and enjoy the ride.

168. Daoud - May 18, 2008

Am I missing something?

Nero, Ayel, and their ilk are Romulans from the post-Nemesis era. They could be a rebel group in the aftermath of Shinzon… perhaps they decide that if it weren’t for the Federation: they’d have never suffered under Shinzon’s putsch.

When they go back in time, they have no reason to call themselves “Romulans”. They could call themselves something else.

Furthermore, Oldie Spock (after already knowing full well how to travel in time, viz. Selek in Yesteryear) is unlikely to tell Youngun Spock and his crewmates anything about Romulans.

And also… it’s the Romulan *STAR EMPIRE*. We already know there are Romulans and Remans, and some hint of the Debrune. Clearly, there are many Romulan races: we’ve seen varieties in Nanclus, Dar, Tal, the TNG era, etc.

There’s no canon violation of Balance of Terror here.

169. Star Trek XI with Romulans? » Jumbabox - May 19, 2008

[...] That’s right! It looks like TrekMovie.com has confirmed some more interesting news about the new Star Trek movie being released early 2009 which has Romulans staged as one of the foes in the new movie (see the post here). [...]

170. Spaceman Spiff - May 19, 2008

>>”Well TrekMovie.com has already confirmed rumors that time travel plays a part in the film”

*Groan* as if time travel hasn’t been done to death in Trek already…

171. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - May 19, 2008

#144, #145—I understand that there are some who do not mind the fact that Klingons were portrayed as “cavemen in space” by the TNG-era producers, but I didn’t like it.
TOS Klingons were, to the Federation, a representation of what the Soviet Union was to the West during the Cold War. The explosion of Praxus in TUC was a direct comparison to a similar event which occured at the end of the Cold War….Chernobyl.
Just as things changed within the Soviet Union after Chernobyl, I understand that things would have changed within the Klingon Empire post-Praxus. However, Ron Moore chose to delve into “Klingon culture” in the TNG-era, and instead of the cunning, sophistocated, and efficient Klingons we see in TOS, we get feudalistic morons who eat live food, prefer batleths to modern weapons, talk of imaginary honor, practice idolistic worship and ridiculous rituals, and behave (as a species) in such a manner as to invite scepticism as to how such a people ever even made it into space in the first place, much less developed warp capabilty and became an empire once the technological equals of the Federation.
Consider the era of the Organian Peace Treaty. Spock and Kirk describe the Klingons as “most efficient” when discussing the competition between Starfleet and the Klingons over the development of planets in the disputed zones. Kor and Kang are well spoken, intelligent, and display none of the character traits we see later in TNG-era Klingons. My question is, where did Moore base his development (I use that term loosely) of Klingon culture? Is this regression over 75 years after Praxus a result of a weakened state? I don’t buy the “neanderthal in space” thing. TOS-era Klingons were brutal, but they were also as psychologically and mentally formidable as their level of technology would indicate. I think Moore looked at the renegade Klingons led by Capt. Kruge in TSFS, and ran in that direction, when there was obviously a great deal more sophistication in Klingon culture inferred by TOS.
I won’t put all the blame on TNG and the 24th century spinoffs. TUC Klingons adopted some of that behavior as well, and TSFS confused the Klingons with the Romulans (I much preferred the Klingons without the BOP). I just wish they had not gone in such a hard-to-believe direction, given their status within the Alpha quadrant. It never sat well with me. Star Trek TNG could easily have made the Klingons stick to the Russian allegory, with their politics and culture obviously evolving after the disaster on Praxus and seeing then a need for greater cooperation with other powers historically viewed as enemies rather than partners. Some of that was done, but I saw no need for the near comical cultural behavior and simple moronic nature of the Klingons. The howling, the live food, the swords, the rituals…it got very ridiculous, IMO.

172. Eric Cheung - May 19, 2008

The Klingon’s religion based around Kahless was firmly established in TOS. Also, they are hardly mature in episodes like The Trouble with Tribbles in which they just start a barroom brawl out of nationalistic pride, what they might defend as…honor (I’ve often thought that “honor” gets really twisted to justify actions just as “logic” is used to justify actions by Vulcans). In TMP, it’s not just the look that reminds one of Klingons as they’re now known. They’re clearly aggressive and territorial as a matter of course. These are not renegades. In TSFS blades are introduced, as are the targ. Early in TNG stuff like the death growl and gagh, all before Ronald D. Moore even submitted “The Bonding.”

But to the greater point, to have a species on Star Trek serve as allegorical is good as a starting point, but they must find their own voice or Star Trek would essentially suffer from what Law & Order-like ripped-from-the-headlines type stories, which are inherently self-conscious and in Star Trek’s case would surely be preachy.

I also take issue with the idea that the Klingons in the TNG era are not somehow intelligent. I would consider Martok and Worf to be tactical geniuses. They’re clearly very smart, but their culture has shifted their priorities away from what humans are used to. They certainly are efficient since they use violence as a means to change the hands of power. So much for counting hanging chads.

Anyway, in Star Trek we only ever get to see a segment of a species’ population. Just because all we ever see are warriors does not mean they don’t have brilliant scientists and engineers and architects and doctors who built their ships and government buildings and take care of their soldiers.

I think that the culture as presented in the TNG-era was a fairly logical extrapolation of the stuff laid down in TOS and the movies.

173. ozy - May 19, 2008

Ridgeless Romulans!
Hairless Romulans!

S-T-U-P-I-D !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

174. sean - May 19, 2008

#171

I don’t think that TSFS ‘confused’ Klingons for Romulans just because they decided to switch races prior to production. The use of the Bird of Prey always made sense to me, in light of the technology exchange first mentioned in ‘The Enterprise Incident’. The Klingon cruisers always seemed rather ‘birdlike’ to me, so that a Klingon might decorate a ship in a fearsome way doesn’t seem out of step to me. And why would ritual or food make them any less believable? There are areas of the world where they eat things I wouldn’t step within 10 ft of. Why wouldn’t the same hold even more true for an alien race? I agree the Klingons eventually incorporated aspects of Feudal Japan with the Soviets, but I don’t know why that’s such a bad thing. At least we had some expansion on their culture. TOS really gave us nothing other than Klingons = bad. Honestly, what did we know about Klingons beyond a desire to conquer the galaxy in TOS?

And I never quite understood where we got the notion that Kruge & crew were some kind of renegades. Sure, we have the line from Kruge that mentions peace talks, but other than that, we follow up in Trek IV with the Klingon ambassador not only seeking justice for Kruge & company’s death, but he fails to deny that the Klingon Empire wasn’t aware of what Kruge was doing. In fact, he defends their actions as an attempt to ‘preserve our race’. How do we know Kruge wasn’t acting under the authority of the Empire, with the peace talks being nothing but cover? Given he’s one of very few Klingons we’ve ever heard referred to as ‘Lord’, one might assume he was one of the ruling class descended from Kahless.

I don’t know about the regression either, because I don’t think they regressed. I think TNG & the TOS-era movies just built upon what we already knew of Klingons – they were brutal conquerors, known for inflicting tranny upon their subjects, as well as being efficient opponents. Plus, I don’t think that we saw every class and even race of Klingon in the various shows. Certainly, an empire built upon the subjugation of other races would be made up of quite a few conquered peoples. Class seemed to play into Klingon culture as well, so there may have been a ‘worker’ class that made ships, farmed, etc.

175. Eric Cheung - May 19, 2008

The ambassador in Star Trek IV/VI was a zealous politician with his own motives for spinning the encounter with Kruge’s men into a case for the punishment of Kirk & Co. His stance on the events must be taken with a grain of salt since we don’t know the official position of the Klingon government, only that of one of their representatives. If he was Chancellor, or some kind of majority leader on the High Council, it might be different.

It is also not a safe assumption that Lord meant Kruge was part of any ruling class. It could simply mean that his crew either worshipped him, feared him, or both.

176. Mr. Poopey face(formerly known as Closettrekker) - May 19, 2008

#174—I don’t disagree that the producers had every right to develop a culture for the Klingons. I just did not like the one they chose. And I did point out that this did not start with TNG. It started with TSFS. I don’t think TMP had anything to do with it. Attacking V’Ger head on is a strategy that Starfleet might have tried too if they had not witnessed the Klingons fail (see TOS, “The Doomsday Machine”).

I have no issue with the Klingons using a vessel or cloaking device obtained from the Romulans in an exchange (although such an exchange was never actually said to take place. Spock says, “Starfleet Intelligence reports Romulans now using Klingon designs”, that’s all). It is the practice of “painting the ships like birds of prey” which is culturally Romulan. We had never seen Klingons having painted ships before (and certainly not painted like birds), and it is difficult to believe that they would adopt such a practice all of a sudden. The Soviets sold MIG-21′s all over the world, and they were never painted beforehand. Why would the Romulans sell or trade ships which were already painted like one of their own?

The idea of live food and the ridiculous rituals do not, by themselves, cause me to question how such a culturally primitive race made it into space and bacame the technological equals of the Federation. It is the whole thing. I am well aware that Kahless The Unforgettable was first introduced in TOS, “The Savage Curtain”. However, his hair was not unruly, he was not drooling beyond his “fangs”, nor was he sloppily drunk on bloodwine and eating food that moves. He was also a historical figure from a thousand years before.
I am also aware that one of Kruge’s men produced a three-pronged dagger for an execution in TSFS. However, that is a far cry from carrying a Bat’leth into battle where the dominant weapons are disruptors and phasers, and actually PREFERRING to do so.
TNG-era Klingons are absolutely a regression, IMO. TOS Klingons were well-spoken, disciplined, and neat in appearance. Their females even wore makeup and fixed their hair in an attractive fashion. TMP Klingons, in their brief scene, were shown to have ridges and to wear armor, but that is about the only difference. We never see them really interact with one another or a Starfleet opponent.
i know I simply had a preconceived notion about Klingon culture as being, albeit a martial one, one of richness and sophistication. TOS Klingons were brutal, but also cunning, deceptive, and very intelligent. They cared nothing of honor, or even the imaginary kind. They were sophisticated villains who were quite formidable. They were not Neanderthals in space. I prefer the TOS view of the Klingon. For me, the TNG-era examination of their culture was very disappointing. Seeing Kor look like a slob (drinking or otherwise) was even worse. I will say that, of the 24th Century spinoff series, I did like DS9 the best, but it was despite the caveman Klingons, not because of them.

177. Eric Cheung - May 19, 2008

I still don’t think that eating live food or having rituals you deem ridiculous makes them a primitive people. I mean the Vulcans routinely fight to the death as part of a mating ritual. You could argue that’s pretty primitive. There are cultures here on earth that will surely endure into the 23rd and 24th centuries that seem exotic to the Western world but to call them primitive would be condescending at best. Even intelligent citizens of the Western world enjoy eating live insects.

The only thing required of a culture to be part of the space-faring universe of Star Trek is that they have the knowledge to build such ships. Who’s to say what cultures would develop that knowledge? Who’s to say where a culture’s priority’s lie? It’s a dangerous slippery slope to suggest that only people like those from Modern and Post-Modern Western cultures would inherit that knowledge. For example, the Ancient Egyptians had computers. It’s not really our place to judge any more than it’s our place to use the Prime Directive in a wanton fashion. In fact the conflict with the Klingons in the 23rd century may have been partly our own human flaws that failed to respect the vastly different culture of one of our neighbors in this galaxy.

And the attitude of the Klingons in TMP very much informs my view of their culture henceforth. It’s not so much the actions they took against the V’Ger cloud, it’s more the body language they made while doing it. They moved in big theatrical movements teeth frothing at the energy being that would dare invade Klingon space. It was their aggressive posturing that informed their decisions even if the actual tactics would have been identical to Starfleet regulations (which I doubt in any case anyway).

Plus I don’t think that guns are neccesarily a mark of higher culture than blades. Perhaps the Klingons view combat as something fairly intimate. Their daggers were most likely standard-issue for the Klingon Defense Force, they seemed consistent with that agency’s design. Perhaps they need to know their opponent and engage them directly. To konw them is to empathize with them, to learn about them, to engage in combat in a way that shows respect and honor for the enemy but boastful pride in the glory of their wars. Only being inches away can provide that kind of knowledge.

From their point of view Starfleet is perfectly fine detaching themselves emotionally from battle, shooting at nameless and faceless foot soldiers seeing them more as ideological enemies and not as people.

I think just the fact that they’re a culture as fleshed out as they are is unprecedented in fiction. They even have arguably the most popular fictional language in the world, created post-TOS. Any culture that has people that audaciously claim Shakespeare as one of their own can’t be too primitive.

Of course I’m just playing the Fek’lhr’s Advocate.

178. sean - May 19, 2008

#175

My only point about the Klingon Ambassador was that given his position, we just don’t know if Kruge was acting with or without the authority or permission of the Klingon government. Certainly the Klingons would find the Genesis Project a cause for concern, at any rate. As for Kruge’s title, yes, it’s possible they called him that because they feared him, but given the fact that I recall very few (if any) other Klingons being referred to that way, one could assume it had a special connotation.

#176

Not to harp on it, but if Starfleet reports Romulans are using a Klingon design, doesn’t that sort of imply there was an exchange? Plus, TNG later verified there was an alliance between the two powers around the time. As for the cultural signifigance of the bird, we only really saw, what? Maybe 2 actual Klingon ships in TOS? Most of the time when they referred to Klingon ships it was just a blur of light on the screen. So who knows if that particular aspect of Romulan ship design wasn’t already shared by the two races. Plus, if they DID get the ships from the Romulans, why would the Romulans repaint them? If the design was so well-known, what would be the point in trying to hide the fact it was Romulan? Wouldn’t it be obvious? The crew of the Enterprise seemed to instantly recognize that the Romulans were using Klingon ships, whether they were painted or not.

I don’t see Kor as you do, even in his DS9 appearance. He wasn’t a slob. He had obviously become an alcoholic, but I don’t think that was such a bad development in terms of his character. He was a warrior that had lived passed the prime of his youth, and he was drowning sorrows in a bottle. He was still fierce and cunning, as was clearly demonstrated in his 3 appearances. As for preferring a fight with a blade, I guess much like the rest of Klingon culture, you either accept it or you don’t. The Klingon’s used disruptors when necessary, and I certainly don’t remember them bringing a knife to a gun fight. I think it was just a preference to look at an enemy right in the eyes, and the skill necessary to use the bladed weapons.

I do understand what you mean about ‘filling in the blanks’ in your imagination as to what Klingon culture was like. I was sometimes disappointed at what writers decided to ‘change’ from what I’d established in my own mind.

179. ozy - May 19, 2008

# 178- Not to harp on it, but if Starfleet reports Romulans are using a Klingon design, doesn’t that sort of imply there was an exchange

Not.
( Romulan D-7 are copy of klingon D-7 class )

180. AJ - May 19, 2008

I have to say this.

I saw TSFS first-run 5 times in the cinema in America.

I wasn’t watching “Taxi” at the time, but when Christopher Lloyd appeared as Kruge, there was, every time, an eruption of hysterical laughter. But I thought his Klingons were true to TOS.

The Klingons are not about honor when it comes to other races. One of the most important characteristics of the Trek Klingons, is that the Empire favors extermination over negotiation or battle. The Genesis weapon will wipe out a planet and a race, and I will phaser thousands of villagers every 30 minutes until the rebels are found.

Why did that change?

181. Dom - May 19, 2008

My big issue with the ‘drunken Viking’ Klingons is that TNG-style borderline cavemen couldn’t have made into space. Based on their TNG portrayal, can you honestly see any possibility of Klingon scientists, academicians, computer experts, Klingon Einsteins, Klingon Stephen Hawkings amongst that rabble?

And the Klingons didn’t have a Kahless-worshipping religion in TOS: he was simply an ancient hero of the people – a great leader! Mark Leonard’s Klingon commander in TMP is clearly highly intelligent and cunning. He fires photorps into the cloud in part to see how far they’d get. Had the Klingons not done that, Epsilon and the Big E might have fired phasers and photorps themselves.

Even Worf didn’t go all animalistic until season two of TNG. Kruge’s gang were clearly rebels trying to buy a bit of power in the empire by trying to steal information on Genesis – what would inevitably be seen as a new planet-killer weapon by powers outside the Federation. If Kruge could get hold of Genesis, it would give him a massive bargaining chip within the Empire.

And John Schuck’s Klingon Ambassador, like Gorkon and Colonel Worf , clearly had intelligence and sophistication.

TNG and it’s 90s ilk, for all their feigned high-mindedness, were utterly bigoted: robotic, ‘perfected’ humans travelling through space sniggering at androids that couldn’t handle emotions and patronising the likes of the Ferengi: the sickest Jewish stereotype committed to celluloid since the Nazi era!

I hope Abrams and his team, in whatever capacity the Klingons feature, do something to redress not only the portrayal of that race, but also the later Star Treks’ approach to other cultures!

182. AJ - May 19, 2008

Wow, Dom.

I think Rick Berman and Gene Roddenberry may have been Jewish as well.

DS9 was the dumbing down of the series. It destroyed the Klingons, exalted the utter stupidity of the Ferengi (though Armin Shimerman is a riot), and gave Odo’s race the honor of being bigots who hired drugged slave labor without actually providing benefit to anyone. And then, Star Trek Insurrection actually shows the Feds supporting one of the major suppliers of Ketracel White to these slaves, etc.

I have said that actors’ performances saved the Klingons from true self-parody. Kor, Kang and Koloth were juicy morsels, eh? They could have occupied DS9 in 5 minutes out of sheer gaul.

183. sean - May 19, 2008

#179

Huh?

184. sean - May 19, 2008

#181

Isn’t it more offensive to make the assumption that the Ferengi ARE a Jewish stereotype? I’m just saying.

#182

DS9 was ‘dumbed down’? I have to vehemently disagree.

As for the Dominion, they were a modern day Roman Empire. They were imperialists, and looked for any opportunity to expand their empire. And they made errors. I don’t think that makes them stupid or a dumbed down concept. I agree that the Ferengi were used too often, but in such a serious series you needed the comic relief from time to time. And they hardly ‘exalted’ their ill behaviors – they were often shown to have undesirable qualities.

The Klingons – eh, to each their own. I hardly think DS9 ‘destroyed’ the Klingons, they just showed different sides to them. Most of the Klingons in the series were shown to be clever, resourceful, and occasionally treacherous. Worf, Martok, Kurn, Kor, Kang, Koloth…they were all shown in a mostly positive light.

185. Dom - May 19, 2008

184 sean. No it isn’t offensive to make that claim! Nice of you to claim I’m a racist for pointing out something that many of us have said for years. And please don’t use expressions like ‘I’m just saying!’ They’re patronising and basically meaningless. If you don’t write ‘I’m just saying!’ does that mean you’re not saying anything? ;)

It’s amazing the Ferengi didn’t break out singing ‘Pick a pocket or two’ sometimes, given they all seem to be based on Shylock, a character Dickens felt deep embarrassment over. Remember the fuss about Jar-Jar? It’s not far off that!

Rather than have individual characters, TNG tarred entire races with single brushes. In effect, the TNG approach was: arrogant ‘perfected’ humans travel through space sneering, as every other race depicted has a trait that resembles a ‘bad’ thing that humans supposedly used to be like. It’s a pretty contemptible approach compared with TOS, which gave even the guest characters a semblance of individuality! Even DS9 acknowledged this with their approach to the arrogant crew of the Odyssey!

A Private Little War highlights the critical difference between TOS and TNG. In TOS, the characters made mistakes and learned things; in TNG the characters were already ‘perfect’ and went around telling other people how to live their lives!

186. ShootTheM14 - May 19, 2008

I enjoyed some of the spin offs, particularly Voyager and, to a degree Enterprise, but for me the “canon” is the TOS and I’d be happy to see any of the later plot items ignored. I found TNG boring and TS9 tolerable. I felt Enterprise and Voyager captured the spirit of exploration the other spin offs lacked. I too found the ridges silly and the ideal of Vulcans and Romulans as sister races is clearly established in TOS (The Enterprise Incident #59) and IMO the later spin offs are the ones that violated canon.

I hope they continue along these lines with future Trek movies and perhaps we’ll even see more prequels set pre TOS.

JJ Abrams is a great choice and I’m sure he’ll do a fine job.

187. 790 - May 19, 2008

I have a feeling that due to time travel canon will be changing right before are eyes.

188. Markq - May 19, 2008

In my opinion, the Dominion are more like British colonialists than Romans

189. sean - May 19, 2008

#185

I wrote a lengthy response, but apparently TrekMovie hates me and lost it. I’ll just say I’m honestly sorry if you felt I was implying you were a racist. That was not my intention. I have never heard anyone say that they felt the Ferengi were a commentary on Jewish society, so that completely threw me. I’ve never felt they were, but if you feel they were I doubt I’ll be convincing you otherwise.

In terms of TOS & TNG – Kirk was the king of telling people (entire societies, in many cases) how to live their lives. In fact, the strict interpretation of the Prime Directive in TNG was a direct response to the constant ‘interference’ of Kirk & crew in TOS. And TNG & DS9 certainly offered more facets to say, the Romulans and Klingons than TOS ever did. In TOS they were the bad guys, with little explanation as to why. Whereas TNG offered us Klingon scientists, Romulan peacemakers & even Ferengi altruists. They showed that these societies were never governed entirely by one principal or set of principals.

I’ll admit, some races tended to be painted with a broad stroke, but TOS was equally guilty of that. And truthfully, it was usually for storytelling purposes rather than an attempt to depict a realistic society.

190. Dom - May 20, 2008

Hey sean (189)

Yeah, there’s nowt so frustrating as a lengthy post that goes astray! Sorry if my earlier reply was snippy: I was six hours into a ten-hour night shift. oftentimes you don’t appreciate that tiredness is getting the better of you!

The Ferengi weren’t a ‘commentary’ on Jewish society, but were very reminiscent of a stereotypical portrayal Jews from years back, much as Jar-Jar angered people for talking like a stereotypical black man from years back!

I always felt that Kirk, who certainly liked telling people what to do was often in error and often in the right. As I say, that was part of TOS’s journey of learning. Remembering that TOS was a cold war allegory, it would be more likely that Kirk would meet ‘bad guys’ or at least opposite his opposite numbers in the military than TNG which was set in the aftermath of the Klingon Cold War.

Unlike TNG, where the characters were diplomats, the TOS characters were soldiers in an era where the cold wars between Humans, Klingons and Romulans could turn hot at any time.

It’s down to preference. I prefer that era: I grew up in a military city in the later days of the Cold War and connect with it on that level. I felt that Kirk’s actions were expediency in pressured circumstances, with a strong streak of old fashioned military honour.

On the other hand, TNG actually telegraphs some of the mistakes made by governments in the West since the fall of the Iron Curtain: an arrogance that assumes our way of life is best or everyone and tries to force it on them. I mean . . . a psychotherapist on the bridge! Really!!! :0

Still, we could go on forever discussing the pros and cons: part of the fun of being a Trekker, I guess!

All the best, Dom :)

191. Captain Otter - May 20, 2008

#72- the original flight could not have included Riker and LaForge because without the flight, there’d be no Riker and LaForge to come back in time and make the flight happen. The only reason Riker and LaForge were on the flight was because Borg interference kept Lily from being there in the first place.

In other words, Cochrane flight 1.0 was TNG-cast free. The Borg come back and pollute the timeline which must be set right by LaForge and Riker.

Remember that while in the vortex, the Ent-E crew see and all-Borg earth- meaning that the Borg were successful. Thus Cochrane flight 2.0 w/ Riker and LaForge is a third timeline presented in the film- the “canon” time-line, the victorious Borg timeline, and the modified “canon” timeline.

192. Dom - May 20, 2008

One of the theories purported out there is that in order to protect the timeline, the universe will split, creating a parallel universe, in the event someone tries to change anything.

Normally one assumes time traveller would seek to blend into the timeline and become part of history, as Riker and LaForge did when they accompanied Cochrane on his flight – after all, had the Borg not shown up, things would have followed a similar path.

On the other hand, if Nero goes back and nukes Vulcan and commits some other acts of temporal terrorism, the universe will split, trapping them in the new timeline, which is presumably what they’d want! If they could travel into the future, it would be the new universe’s future (remember all this from Back to the Future 2?)

So, that being the case, we know that the original Trek universe will carry on, but it’ll be a one way trip for the Romulans and for Leonard Nimoy’s Spock.

193. sean - May 20, 2008

#190

No need for apologies! I didn’t phrase myself in the best way.

I completely understand where you’re coming from though, I think each show was a reflection of its time. The pioneering spirit of the 60′s being replaced with the diplomacy of the 80′s. Then we had the blurred lines of the 90′s in DS9.

194. Dave - May 21, 2008

yes but remember seven of nine in “Relativity” saying that First Contact was a predestination paradox so the event was supposed to happen and is part of that original timeline. The whole predestination paradox theory in temporal mechanics allows for all those events that created the timeline up until the 29th century where they can scan time, to be unalterable events that are part of history. That is why the time police don’t interfere with all those other temporal incursions that already occured to create that future. As far as this Movie is concerned the original crew could have easily met Romulans or perhaps only Spock from the future actually meets them in the movie. There is no indication that the original crew will actually see the Romulans or know them as Romulans. After all the Ferengi in Enterprise were not know as Ferengi and thats why Picard thinks he had the first contact with Ferengi.

195. Dom - May 21, 2008

Yeah, but the history shown in TNG and its stablemates is always the ‘control’ version, where we’re shown the closest revised timeline to the original.

As we know from stories like ‘Parallels’, there are many divergent histories out there. If Old Spock travels back in time and finds himself in a majorly divergent universe, he’ll be there to stay.

Anyway, it makes it more interesting having a universe without temporal police keeping everything TNG PC! The future Trek scenarios were a major limiting factor on the later shows, so good riddance to them!

196. startrekfan - May 21, 2008

I think they’re just trying to throw us off. It probably all has nothing to do with Romulans. If Romulans are involved than I’m excited to see what they’re going to do. I could do without the Klingons.

197. MammaKin - May 22, 2008

I think he’s going to change some stuff or mix it up a bit. but that’s good. The old formula was getting a little stail and to keep S.trek around it needs some mixing.
I never notices the ridges…who cares. It’s people making a movie and someone said hey they’d look cool this way or that.
The Klingons looked that way in TOS becuase special affects sucked back then…PERIOD!
Look @ the first movie. They all had the SAME FACE. hahaha.
Calm down and enjoy the movie don’t get to pickie it’s a MOVIE be glad their making another one after that last few TURDS

198. Filme pode mostrar romulanos com novo visual « Startrekbr’s Weblog - May 23, 2008

[...] o site The TrekMovie, os novos romulanos, vilões no filme de Jornada nas Estrelas, não se parecerão com seus [...]

199. Zocky - May 23, 2008

Ok, i was reading some comments and all i can say is WTF? I really sometimes asks myself, are those diehard fans planning to ruin the whole startrek frenchise? Whatever happens to ST, they jump right away like some piranhas on it. What the hell dudes? What’s wrong with you? Can’t you wait and enjoy the movie as it is? You are seriously ruining the movie. If there will be any reason, that this movie will fail, it’s going to be guilt of those die hard fans. One day JJ abrams and others will just say “f*ck ST, whatever you do, you cant please fans, no matter how hard you try, so what even bother?”. Seriously, stop it, right now, with your stupid details. I’m great fan of st and i even think TOS was best, but really, give them a chance. So stop complaining already, get a life, wait for the movie to be release and enjoy it.
Sheesh, people like this is driving me crazy. “UUUU, spock had 0.1 mm longer hair OMG BAN THE MOVIE IT’S TERRIBLE!!!”.
Sheesh. Get a life dudes.

Hopefully movie creators don’t listen those kind of fans too much.

200. Colonel West - May 23, 2008

All the time travel first contact/ Phoenix flight stuff have valid points but mostly its been over analyzed to death. The same thing will apply to trek xi and thats the grandfather paradox which is:

Say I create a time machine, go back in time, kill my grandfather which means my father isn’t born. Therefore I’m not born to create the time machine so I don’t go back in time & kill my grandfather….

Which means that my father is born, I’m born & grow up to create a time machine & go back in time & kill my grandfather which starts the loop all over again.

The tng ep with the bozeman did this fantastically well, coined the term temporal causality loop & the theory has been knocking about for decades.

So if we apply this theory to First Contact & possibly to trek xi, depending on how they go with it, it’s clear that both possibilities can co-exist with equal validity one loop after the next and so on so it can fit in with canon if they do it right, as has been mooted Universe 1 & Universe 2. Remember in Enterprise Archer banging on about something Cochrane said about visitors from the future which he later recanted. Its all interconnected & fits in with canon. (& I’m a stickler for it!)

As kirk said to Spock: “time travel gives me headaches!” :D

Cheers.

201. Raff - May 23, 2008

Romulans suck ass! The villans should be the Borg — the origins of the Borg and how they relate to V’ger and Nomad.

202. Roadie - May 26, 2008

As someone has already pointed out, there was a Romulan War prior to “Balance of Terror”, they just hadn’t SEEN Romulans, they had however, encountered them. All this bashing and argument is like saying you don’t like the way someone makes your favorite food, before you have even tasted that version. Give it a try, THEN spit it out if you don’t like it.

203. Blaine - May 26, 2008

I’ll forward to anything J.J. Abrams and his team are about to release as opposed to the garbage Rick Berman and his ilk produced.

204. marianne - July 10, 2008

I hate the idea of bald Romulans, but I would LOVE for the Romulans in this movie to incorporate something from Diane Duanes Rihannsu books… So please, make my day!

205. e2 - July 17, 2008

why is everyone missing the obvious reason: it was established in enterprise that the kingons tried to create klingon augments, thus creating the human-looking klingons—given that the klingons and romulans were allies at this point its cough logical to assume the romulans tried it too

206. LAB1663.NET » Hell. Yeah. - July 18, 2008

[...] Purported (actually, all-but-guaranteed) to be a Romulan, Nero sports neither brow ridges (we knew this would be the case – warning: very minor spoilers in that link) nor particularly pointy eyebrows or ears (in fairness, [...]

207. Random Guy - August 23, 2008

I think the Romulans should have their TNG ridges, its always pissed me off that according to star trek the universe is populated almost entirely by humans with pointy ears, it seems pretty lazy if you ask me, at least the ridges made them a little different. Got to say though the bowl cuts were stupid.

But I’ve enjoyed the TV show regardless so the movie will probably be great too.

208. Romulan #1 Fan - September 5, 2008

This film won’t Be canon and is just trash. Thanx a lot jj. Romulans have ridges because they look cool and more evil, not to mention their evolution on another planet. They also should not have facial hair because Romulan culture considers it barbaric.

They just did everything they could to make the Romulans look as dumb as Klingons. The shoulder pads were great too, but the forehead SHOuLD distinguish them. That was the whole point…… would a Romulan really try to look like a chollo? I think not.

209. SPOCK 000282756 - October 15, 2008

I have my doubts about the whole “will be canon” “wont be canon” thing.

The story is that a rouge group of Romulans in which some have pointed ears, and some like Nero himself dont are using this drilling machine to take away every planets energy and use it to conquer to universe.

Perhaps Old Spock has to come back in time because the future is being ruled by Nero and his Romulans and join with the Enterprise and meet his younger self to set things right. Also, maybe Nero is from the future, and Old Spock has to come from a post Star Trek Nemesis time period and take bald Nero and his rougues with him. Or, Old Spock goes into the past because the future is being ruled by Nero, get to the Enterprise and together use time travel go to the future and stop Nero. That could explaind why Bana himself said that his role is like a “cameo apperance”, and not a big role like Kahn in Star Trek 2.

Just some thoughts.

210. Star Trek Movie- Romulan Identified! « Health And Survival Blog - October 17, 2008

[...] Star Trek Villain Spoilers [...]

211. Frank - December 9, 2008

Well the last Star Trek movie had a bold “Romulan”……………….

212. Trekfan - December 14, 2008

I was a Trek fan from an early age, and my favorite episode was “Balance of Terror”. I always thought the Romulans weren’t used enough, especially in the movies. The episode focused on racial prejuduces and a key point of the episode was the fact that no one had ever seen a Romulan before. It was said that early ships were very primative, lacking view screens, and fighting with nuclear weapons. Then along came “Enterprise”. Not only does this “first” starship have a view screen, it certainly doesn’t have nuclear weapons. Bye bye canon! Although I liked the interior of the ship, It’s exterior looked more advanced than the ship in TOS. Perhaps most of you will find these to be minor sticking points, but it ruined the show for me.

213. Random Guy - April 21, 2009

To be honnest it doesnt bother me that Enterprise didnt really stick to canon, it was well written on its own and the less rubbery looking alians really helped me get into it more than the other serieses.

And from what ive seen the new enterprise for the film looks pretty similer to the ship in Enterprise

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