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BSG Preview: “Sine Qua Non” May 30, 2008

by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: BSG , trackback

Battlestar Galactica is back after taking a week off with “Sine Qua Non” which has Adama and Tigh not exactly seeing eye to eye (and that would be Tigh’s left eye of course). More info and vids from that episode below, plus news on more webisodes, TV movies, deleted scenes, and Ron Moore’s other projects below.

Airing on the Sci-Fi Channel tonight , May 30th at 10 PM (9 Central)
[note: this episode aired on Tuesday in the UK on Sky One]

“Sine Qua Non” [Season 4 Ep. 8]
Synopsis: A power struggle among the Colonials results when one of their leaders is abducted.

Note: Sine qua non is a Latin phrase meaning “without which it could not be” said famously by Andrew Jackson, who famously said: “E pluribus unum, my friends. Sine qua non.”

TV Spot


(YouTube)

Sneak Peek


(YouTube)

Watch first 10 minutes online
SciFi.com streams 10 minute sneak peeks starting every hour, on the hour, between 9AM and 4PM Eastern (CLICK TO WATCH). Also recent episodes of BSG are available online (ad supported) at SciFi.com and Hulu.com

Battlestar news of the week:
Video Q&A Pt. 2 w/ Edward James Olmos (Adm. Adama)

Video Q&A Pt. 2 w/ Rekha Sharma (Tory Foster)

Moore on religion of Trek and BSG
BSG co-creator Ron Moore has an extensive interview at Wired, covering his past with Trek his present with Battlestar and his future with Virtuality and Caprica. Here is just one small part with Moore talking religion on Trek and BSG:

I was raised Catholic, and I’m a recovering Catholic now. I became interested in various Eastern religions, and now I’ve sort of settled into somewhat of an agnosticism and sort of a general interest in the subject. I think in the show I felt it was a part that was really noticeably missing from the Star Trek universe. Gene Roddenberry felt very strongly that by the 23rd and 24th centuries that all the major religions had vanished and it was all regarded as superstition. That was his view of the future. I just never quite bought that. I thought, that’s part of who we are, it’s part of what it is to be human, to seek to answer the questions of: Is this all that I am? Is there nothing more? What happens after you die? It didn’t seem like that was going to go away.

So I sort of felt its absence in the Star Trek universe, and then felt like that was something I would really portray in Galactica. And then as the Cylons became human-looking, when we decided that they would look like us, it just raised a whole host of issues that went in this direction: How they thought of themselves, why they wanted to kill humanity, that they saw themselves as humanity’s children but felt they could never really come into their own until they had killed their parents. Already You’re dealing with these metaphysical and physical arenas.

And then there was that moment in the miniseries where I just saw on the page that had Number Six say “God is love” to Baltar and one network executive just seized on it and said that’s a great thing, I’m just shocked, you should play more of that. I just took the chance and went with it — decided that that was going to be a big part of the show, and the show just lent itself to it.

Mojo blogs on lost shot
Battlestar CG artist Adam ‘Mojo’ Lebowitz has an interesting post on his blog lamenting a pre-visualization shot that he made for the last episode that ended up on the cutting room floor. He has a full breakdown of the scene with images and video.


Unseen shot of Prometheus headed towards Cylon baseship.

More webisodes and TV movies on the way
This season of BSG is going to be broken up into two sets of 10 episodes, which means after this week there are just two more to go before the BSG drought begins again. Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune reports that Sci-Fi are planning on a series of webisodes to tide you over and bridge the gap between the two halves of the season. Ryan also reports that it appears that plans are afoot for three more prequel BSG TV movies, but nothing is final yet on those. No word on when any of these TV movies or Webisodes will air. The second half of BSG may not start until 2009.

Frakkin’ Links


Col. Tigh gets the LOLCats treatment

A NOTE ON COMMENTS
The comments section below is for the majority of Trek fans who are also BSG fans. It is to discuss the series, the week’s episode and anything else related to the preview article above. If you are not a fan of the show, then why are you even reading this far down into this post? There are plenty of Trek stories so just move on. Any flaming of BSG will be considered trolling. If you have issues with this site having one BSG column a week, then make a note in the site feedback page.

 

Comments

1. The Guy that Never Posts on an Empty Stomach - May 30, 2008

The original BSG was based on LDS myth.

The whole Greco-Roman-Egyptian classical civilizations.

The 12 tribes of Israel.

Catholicism incorporates all the classical religions because it evolved from them (plus Judaism) There’s no mystery if you cut out all the mystery. Pun intended. (yes I’m Catholic, whatever you’re thinking, nip it)

So when is everything going to be revealed then???

We’re waiting.

I still say Shatner is the final Cylon and he sings “Hey Mr Tambourine Man” Or better yet, “I wanna sex you up” and steals Baltar’s (Mudd’s) Women.

What’s Klingon for “Booyah”

2. Sirmartman - May 30, 2008

Yeh Im a big fan of Battlestar Galactica, from the early days ,,to the new.

and yeh,, I watched Battlestar Galactica 1980 too,,, *Gag*

I always wondered why the bigger stars like Lorne Greene had anything to do with it.

It must of been tough at times working hard on a great tv show,,and then watching it getting trashed like that.

3. The Guy that Never Posts on an Empty Stomach - May 30, 2008

Most pre-Christian Old World religions have myths where the local Hero goes out in search of his or her gods and is not rewarded the way he expects.

Very common in Greek Myth, Norse Myth, the Grail Legends, that sort of thing. Hindu too.

Introspective religions like Judaism and Buddhism teach that God is found within.

Where is the Cylon god?

Que’s que se, “je ne sais qua?”

4. The Guy that Never Posts on an Empty Stomach - May 30, 2008

Final post & I’m done:

The more I think about it, if you watch the characters, the Cylon god is a fertility/sex god. Probably Inanna or Ishtar. Shatner in drag then?

They’re obsessed with sex, especially Baltar & Six, Helo & Sharron. How do they explain away the second hybrid child, Nick??? Obviously they made Chief Tyrol a Cylon at the last minute.

Too many plot holes

oui, quoi non qua c’est la vie

5. trekee - May 30, 2008

Amazingly, Sky showed it in the UK this week so for once we can read this without worrying about someone spoiling it.

So all I’ll say is that I thought this was another notch up in this story arc and if you’ve been enjoying it so far, this won’t dissapoint. The only criticsm is that a certain scene didn’t ring true for me but a minor quibble in an otherwise shock-full episode.

6. Ali - May 30, 2008

Meeow is all I can say

7. jmdiaz - May 30, 2008

Love this show….Roddenberry would be proud of Moore….

8. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

This series is not going to have a happy ending, at least thats the way it seems. The problem is that that it would kill my interest in the Caprica series.but we’ll see on this.

9. Chain of Command - May 30, 2008

BSG is a pretty cool series. I just wish Scf-Fi would run a complete season without taking a year off in between. Seriously, it kinda kills the mood when they take upteen number of months or years off in between.

I mean, I love the show, but the way it’s aired annoys the frak out of me.

Also, why in the world are they showing something like “Dr. Who” BEFORE BSG? That makes no sense at all. I mean, showing BSG at 10 o’clock on Friday nights??? If Sci-Fi is trying to get ratings they’re not programming very well. Pretty crappy programming decisions if you ask me.

10. Dennis Bailey - May 30, 2008

Great series. :)

11. KennyB - May 30, 2008

Great episode tonight folks lotsa good stuff….only gripe….not really a spoiler..no sight of the basestar AT ALL. Just makes me drool for next week even more……..The big break is REALLY gonna suck. Hope Sci-Fi airs the final ten before 2010.

12. Green-Blooded-Bastard - May 30, 2008

1. The Guy that Never Posts on an Empty Stomach
“What’s Klingon for “Booyah”

*Belch…*

13. JohnnyMoo - May 30, 2008

Why does there need to be a huge break anyway? Haven’t they already shot most of the episodes? At the very least, I know the cast have read the final scripts.

14. Dr. Image - May 30, 2008

Why I’m now an even bigger fan of BSG:
Rekha Sharma.

15. CmdrR - May 30, 2008

I fess up. I’m hooked on Lost and BSG… I will avoid future single arc shows like the plague. I love BSG but am glad there’s an ending in sight. As for Lost, I can’t believe I have to wait two more frakkin seasons and still they won’t let Ben stay dead. Ugh.

Love the BSG LOLCats… esp. the one where kitty’s complaining about being “boxed.”

As for prequel movies, they could be cool if the cast is used properly. Razor was good, but it had the feel of being uneccesary since we’d already seen the results of that incident. I liked it, but the whole lesbian angle didn’t add anything. (Except for the Quiznos commercial, that is.) Would love to see the movies be stand alone ‘away team’ missions or something. Anyway, I’ll be watching.

16. Dom - May 30, 2008

I wouldn’t sweat the writers-strike-induced break too much. There’s talk of up to three BSG TV films filling the gap. The current run is leading up to a big cliffhanger, so we’ll have something major to look forward to next year!

17. THX-1138 The Fandom Menace - May 30, 2008

BSG has become my Star Trek (don’t take that the wrong way). I enjoy it so much that I overlook any weaknesses.

I have found the story telling pretty tight this season, without much wasted motion. I thought Razor was great and I, for one, would love to see more of the first Cylon war as Moore would envision it. Instead of Caprica, that’s the show I would like to see.

And much respect to my friends across the Atlantic for not letting the cat out of the bag on this weeks ep. Thanks, pal-o’s.

18. sean - May 30, 2008

Oh god, the lolcats were killing me. ‘I luvs Kara Thrace. Now letz boxes!’

19. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

Why does it have to have a sad ending? after all that hell wouldn’t at least a bitter sweet ending be more satisfying? I like the show bads it’s become the live action equivalent of Full Metal Alchemist where lots of bad and tragic things happen o people. How much gloom and doom should the audience endure, should not the payoff be worth it. Im not asking for and they lived happily ever after. but if tis sad ending why even bother to rewatch the episodes after the show finishes it run.Why even bother to See Caprica?What is the point.

20. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

Please I do like the show its writing is top notch, but a downbeat ending after all of ththis, to me would not be satisfying.And again I ask the question why even bother with Caprica knowing what the outcome is going to be for the coloniels. A down eat ending is a cheat, pure and simple.

21. THX-1138 The Fandom Menace - May 30, 2008

Garo, why do you think the ending is going to be a downer? My feeling is that it’s going to be positive and revelatory for just the same reason you brought up; that the series has been so dark up to now.

22. Irishtrekkie - May 30, 2008

…….Amm i like star trek ? (lol meh i was bored) , and yea just the way BSG is going i have a feeling it will either be a bad ending or something really sureal , oh well should be fun to watch .

23. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

check out the Syfy portal there is a write up on the show you might find of interest. The cluesto to the story seem to poin tto that possibility. Guys check it out. tell me whatyou think.

24. THX-1138 The Fandom Menace - May 30, 2008

Read it, Garo. Olmos is obviously a person in the know, but I have a hard time believing that he gives away the ending of the show, essentially, but not the final Cylon? The conspiracy theorist in me says it is subterfuge.

25. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

ThX -1138 maybe im jumping the gun on this . If well awritten series comes to unsatisfying conclusion, then it just was not worth the trip. Edward James Olmos had said previously that he would not be surprised if everyone ends up dying, then there was Hera saying good bye to Sharon and the vision of Hera with Baltar and six which the door closed. This to indicates tragedy for almost all of them. By again check out the Syfy Portal.

26. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

If some of them die but not all. I can live with that kind of ending. Your right it could all be a red herring to throw us all off. But considering the dark nature of this show you can’t dismiss the everyone dies ending either. There is one other possibility lke the 12 tribes they wondered for 40 years till the generation that sin was no more, maybe that is what he means about everyone dying off , I would have absolutely no problem with that kind of an ending.

27. Gorn Captain - May 30, 2008

Hey it’s about the journey, not the destination! I think Baltar may be one of the only human survivors. Colonials will die. A lot of them. I don’t see BSG having a happy ending, maybe one that will make you think a little bit though.

28. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

To bleak, to dark , what’s the point in caring? You have to like the ending or the journey means nothing.

29. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

Gorn Captaian I don’t think the people on the Titanic would have shared your opinions about the journey being more important then the ending.

30. THX-1138 The Fandom Menace - May 30, 2008

#29

But it made a great movie.

31. Mike - May 30, 2008

I love my BSG

32. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

#30 yes and the poor ship was cheated out of the category of best Performance by inanimate object, it lost out to Keanu Reeves (LOL)

33. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

How many of you would be happy with a sa ending to BSG? To me that is not a satisfactory payoff for this series. I know< Ron Moore is the creator and he can do what he wants, but to me its kind of pointless way to end a series. With no hope for those few who suvive because their decendants if any are stuck in an eternal loop of history repeating itself. That’s just a tad to gloomy for my taste. In a short story or novel or even an episode of a show a sad ending is fine. But somehow for a series ,its not fine. But this is just my opinion on the subject. For the time that we invest in the show, should we not get satisfaction? The show Full Metal Alchemist,great show, well written and I cannot bear to look at en episode of it, to sad ,to dark. By the way the Whole notion of its not the end but the Journey that’s important. That to me is overrated.

34. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

Here’s another Question, what ids the point of a series of Caprica other then back story filler for BSG. we know what Cylons are are going to do, and become so really whats the purpose of it? There is no insult intended by this question, just simply a question, the drama and suspense that such a series would have would be rendered moot by what we know will unfold in BSG.

35. radii - May 30, 2008

Caprica soap opera an iffy proposition. If they focus a lot on the development of the artificial intelligence aspect and the first Cylon model(s) then it has a chance with sci-fi fans given the level of talent that will work on the show. But let’s not forget what a huge misfire Bionic Woman redux was.

For thos interested in the Last Supper image, I’ve found something major hidden in the image and many other clues (“It’s all right there” Ron Moore said) …

http://www.bsglastsupper.blogspot.com

36. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

If we know how its going to work out then what is the point of it? Answer none.

37. Thracefan - May 30, 2008

Why does a story have to have a happy ending? Some of our most celibrated stories have trajic endings. Shakespeare quickly comes to mind. I, for one, love a story with an ending that makes you say, “well what do you know….” BGS rules!

38. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

This is a television series not Shakespeare and no Im not asking for and they live happily ever after ending. A bittersweeries television,et ending will suffice. Especially after all of this misery that the characters have had to endure. If it it has a sad ending no one is going to bother with the show in syndication and fewer still are going to bother with a prequel connect the dots sci fi soap opera like Caprica.

39. THX-1138 The Fandom Menace - May 30, 2008

Keanu Reeves line was great, Garo.

I hope it’s not a bummer ending either Garo, but I don’t think it will diminish my enjoyment too much.

My wife, on the other hand………

40. Gorn Captain - May 30, 2008

Well then, what do you guys think a “happy ending” of BSG would be like?

41. Dom - May 30, 2008

Doubtless, now the team know Caprica is happening, there will be a few crumbs thrown to the fans to tie in the prequel with current BSG. The three TV films, should they happen, will almost certainly help to establish Caprica.

Hopefully, if Caprica becomes a series, we’ll get to see more of the first Cylon war, either in a spin-off from that show or from more Galactica films! Ron Moore has said that there’ll be no sequels to BSG, but there are lots of opportunities for ‘plug-in’ stories!

42. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

Whats the point? the Caprica series is going to be little more the a glorfied story filler for BSG. To me it serves no purpose. #40 Gorn Captain Im not looking for a sacarine sweet happy ending , bitter sweet is fine. If it the future then all died along the journey and its their decendants then that would be fine as well. Im not condemning BSG. just the direction its going.

43. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

Also keep in mind this in mind Galactica’s ratings numbers have been dwindling .When the last episode of Galactica is finally broadcast , the show will go into syndication where it will probably disappear very quickly especailly if it has down beat ending. Now Caprica if it even makes it to full blown series will disappear even quicker without Galactica, because its simply not a viable series, and as concepts it sounds like a very bad idea for a series.

44. The Guy that Never Posts - May 30, 2008

This episode is one of the worst.

OF COURSE Lee is going to be President (Interim). I saw that coming when he resigned from the service. “There’s a position opening up.” Remember that line?

But what I dont understand: Did Romo starve his cat or kill it just before he confronted Lee? Did he kill his cat just to prove a point to Lee? Or did he have a backup dead cat in his quarters the whole time?

Talk about LOLKATZ !!!1! ( lol ;-) )

Killing the cat was as lame as killing Cally. Kali? Kali Ma?

Please let the next episode be as good as the 2nd season eps

Oh, Frak!

What about the Cylons cant impregnate other Cylons plot device that put Sharon with Helo in the first place?

Suddenly Ty can get Six preggers? WTF?

The next Episode had better be great or I’m getting a life…

45. Garovorkin - May 30, 2008

Yeah but but the fact that tigh could get he with child does prove that they may have passed the threshold and become fully human. Its possible that once the resurrection ship is destroyed that as a compensitory survival mechanism they will be able to reproduce.

46. sean - May 30, 2008

I think it’s also safe to say that Laura is NOT the final Cylon, since they make it appear that way in next week’s preview. I’d wager Lucy Lawless is talking to Anders, and they just edited the clip to make it look otherwise.

#44

I guess I was watching a different episode…I really liked this one. As for the cat, I suspect it had been dead for some time, and its appearance was only in Romo’s head. I think that tied into Lee tripping on the bowl and saying something about him never feeding the cat. I dunno, but that’s how it came across to me.

Six being pregnant…interesting. But they’ve always said the Final Five were ‘different’ than regular Cylons, so I don’t think that contradicts anything. I’m still wondering about The Chief’s kid, because it should theoretically be just as important as Athena’s kid. Unless Callie is one of the Final Five too. Who knows.

47. SciFiMetalGirl - May 30, 2008

Just finished watching, and wow, another great episode!

I frakkin’ love this show!!!

48. Dom - May 31, 2008

Garovorkin (43) I don’t know what your problem is with the new Galactica, but you seem to be desperate to spell out doom and gloom for it. I remember a certain other sci-fi series that ran for about 80 episodes then got canned that became rather successful in syndication!

You cannot possibly know that Caprica will be dumped. Hopefully, Caprica will spin a whole new story, with the rise of the Cylons being part of a larger backdrop. You never know, people might actually like it!

It staggers me how miserable, bitchy and whiny certain people are being about this show. It appears to me to know exactly where it is going and and set to round off the story properly. I reckon it’s probably the old Galactica 1970s fans still doing their best to bad-mouth the show, picking on any random bit of an interview to justify their case! Oh and the weirdo brigade of Trek ‘fans’ who don’t think we should talk about anything other than Trek!

There’s absolutely no evidence that Galactica’s going to have a miserable depressing ending. And even if there is tragedy, well-written tragedy can actually be uplifting!

The show has a great deal of potential for an afterlife in syndication because it is a complete entity in itself with a beginning middle and definitive end. Also, it does very well in the home video market: given the half-assed nature of the DVD releases in the UK, a lot of us will probably double dip on the Blu-rays in time, if we get the extra features.

Garovorkin, I suggest you don’t watch Galactica anymore if you hate it so much. And I hope the anti-depressants kick in, soon before you slit your wrists and drive everyone else to do the same!

As for me, I can’t wait to see the next episode on Tuesday on Sky whose lack of confidence in the show is evident . . . ahem . . . except for their web pages, multiple start time options, simultaneous HD broadcast and multiple reruns, not to mention considerable promotion time! ;)

49. Garovorkin - May 31, 2008

Cosidering the downbeat nature of the series , is it out of the realm of possibility that the show is going to have a downbeat ending ? There is an article l on the syfy Portal that you might want to check out regarding Galactica. Dom I don’t hate Galactica I never sated that I did . I believe this forum about expressing opinions, If Im not mistake? fostering discussion which i am attempting to do, and its gotten some responses which was was point of my expressing my opinions. you don’t like my opinions Dom, thats not the point. Caprica to has a bit of been ther done that feel to it. To me it does not sound like a promising concept, But then again it may succeed. who knows. But in the end I think numbers will dictate things here.

50. Doug L. - May 31, 2008

I’m a huge fan of the original and current incarnations of Galactica, but i got to say, I don’t know what happened last night to the writers last night. Galactica hasn’t always been pitch perfect, but it’s never been bad. Last nights episode was BAAAAAD. Really bad.

Given that they have limited episodes to finish everything up, why are we dragging out minor characters, with retarded new story arcs, and why are our existing characters behaving like impetuous 2 year olds. Cmdr. Adama was sooooo out of character in last nights episode. It was just awful.

Doug L.

51. Dom - May 31, 2008

Garovorkin, you sounded like you were stating fact, not opinion. Subtle difference, but a risk on a board which doesn’t handle smileys! I’ll happily discuss them with you anytime, but your tone seemed patronising, which I’m sure you didn’t intend, so sorry if I seemed snippy. :)

I read the article you mentioned. Edward James Olmos is well known to say a lot of stuff about the show and a lot of it is taken the wrong way, but like I say, tragedy can be poetic and uplifting.

My current theory is that Baltar (who is supposed to become the guardian of the new Cylon/human hybrid race) Caprica Six, Hera and Nicholas will get to Earth. Caprica is pregnant (I suspect with a boy). Effectively Baltar and Six could be Adam and Eve. Nicholas and Caprica’s son could be Cain and Abel.

Alternatively, Adama could be Noah and the Galactica could crash on Mt Ararat!!

52. Garovorkin - May 31, 2008

Dom not liking the direction of a show does not constitute hatred of a show. You don’t like my opinions , fine. im not telling yo or anyone else what they should think. the’s no malice intended here, this is a forum for discussion and we are discussing things. Last nights episode of BSG, Lee becomes president,after nearly getting kiled by Romo grieving about his deceased cat which he keeps in a suit case, Adama has decide to look fo Laura whom he loves?and find himself,Coloniel Tigh is a daddy to be and large and in charge again. And what was Sharon singing to Hera and did it pertain to the story? For these and other cliche questions Tune in next week for another exciting episode of As The BattleStar Turns. Last night episode left more questions then answers and I would not exactly call it one of BSG’s finest moments. Next weeks Episode, Dan Bher’s telling Laura She is the 5th? Naw to easy and it somehow does not fit. But again who knows maybe the obvious seeming answer is the correct one here.

53. Dom - May 31, 2008

Hi Doug L.

I didn’t think the latest episode was bad. I get the feeling the characters know that their time is almost up and they’re emotionally frayed. Adama is at a pensionable age and possibly beginning to crack up. Tigh, now he’s a Cylon, might actually be becoming the stronger of the pair. Thinking back, I can’t recall seeing him throw back much alcohol lately!

I get the impression Lampkin is going to have a reasonable-sized role to play in the coming episodes.

54. Garovorkin - May 31, 2008

Dom my Apologies then, I did’nt intend to sound patronizing. Omos has said this whole doom and gloom ending as possibility on a couple of occasions. It may be a red Herring. Their way of throwing us off of the trail. I had thought of that possibility.

55. Garovorkin - May 31, 2008

Every sho has a disappointing episode or two, Next weeks episode with Dan Bhers doing the revelations thing, that should be interesting I get the impression that Adama finds the Baseship. I wonder if there are an story or revelations from that event?

56. Garovorkin - May 31, 2008

So any ideas on next weeks episode? Is laura Cylon number 5 or is William Adama going to be the surprise revelation? again with the plot line red herrings being thrown about who can say? A more serious possibility is is the show loosing some of its focus in all of these side plot lines? Next weeks episode is again going to leave us with lots of questions.

57. Dom - May 31, 2008

In my experience with Galactica, the side plots often have considerable bearing on the main story. Who’d have thought that that storyliine with Tyrol having nightmares in season two would have led to the arrival of Dean Stockwell’s Cylon and Cally giving birth to the second known Cylon/human hybrid?

Maybe Lampkin’s the twelfth Cylon? When Lampkin arrived on Galactica for Baltar’s trial, the music began shortly after. After he made sure that Baltar walked free he left the ship and Tyrol, Tori, Anders and Tigh were all triggered. He’s ruthless and manipulative, claims to have known Joseph Adama, who helped finance the first known Cylon and has a habit of disappearing when it suits him to. Now he’s made sure Lee gets the presidency, leading to a Cylon becoming leader of the fleet. Also, what’s the betting Tyrol is immediately restored to Chief?

58. Sena - May 31, 2008

#35, that was a very interesting breakdown of the picture. A little too Christian biased for me but that’s just me.

Personally, I think many are going to die. We can see that even now but there should be some light at the end of this very dark tunnel… I don’t care if it’s the size of a pinhole. I think D’Anna would sit in the seat where the chalice that represents the final Cylon is located. She knows who it is and so that cup is hers.

I’ve always thought Doc Cottle was the final Cylon because he always seemed to be watching both sides but never taking one on his own. Would make sense why he was not “called” with the other four (because he already knows) but I’m hoping not. I would rather be surprised on this one.

59. CmdrR - May 31, 2008

I liked this ep. I like things blowin’ up, but if they did that every single episode, you’d have Voyager. (ooo — dig!!)
This was a character-driving episode, and I felt it worked well.
Still freaking about the ghost/imaginary/daggit cat.

60. The Guy that Never Posts from the Pulpit - May 31, 2008

Religious intollerance

#58 and all others

First off: Just because some representatives of any religion are “bad” does not make every follower of that religion or the religion itself bad. Consider this: Technology is neutral, it’s how you use it that makes it good or evil.

To that point: BSG is deeply rooted in religion. As I reminded everyone at the start of this thread, the original BSG was based in Mormon myth. Look it up in your Funk & Wagnals.

“too Christian” Adam & Eve are Jewish, not Christian, get it straight. Both Christianity and Islam build upon Jewish Myth. Jewish Myth borrows from other Middle Eastern Myths. Christianity borrows from Pagan Europe. Islam borrows from Christianity and Middle Eastern Pagan Myth.

The basis of all three Religions really is Social Justice and Love Your Neighbor. There’s a lot of add-on material, but as I said, if you know to trim the fat, you get the meat of it.

There have been some wicked evil Pagans and Atheists throughout history, so don’t go feeling superior. Was Attila evil because he was a Pagan or because he was evil? How about Stalin and Hitler? Are all Atheists mass murderers?

Get off the Christian bashing

61. CmdrR - May 31, 2008

Can anyone confirm the blurb on the radio during Zarek’s address — have they been in space 5 years now? I thought it was 3.

62. Mike - May 31, 2008

#61 – The Battlestar Wiki agrees that’s a mistake, and says that they’ve been in space for 3.5 years, which makes more sense, as they spent (I think) 9 months in space running, then a year plus 3 months (Again, If I recall) on New Caprica, and then season 3 and almost half of season 4.

I just watched it and damn this show is just so good, I’m going to miss it when it’s gone. The confrontation between Adama and Tigh was just perfect. The search for the new president is an intriguing story line which does credibly support the decision made in the end, featuring one of the best guest characters (who is now a regular, yay!) I’ve seen in a long time. As much as I loved this show the past three years running, it’s been amazing the whole way through, it’s gotten so much better since it began. The characters are so much richer, more complicated, interesting and better drawn than on other shows. Throw in real, tangible, and at least for me, highly relatable moral, political and philosophical overtones, and wow, I’m sold. BSG is the new standard for Sci Fi. imho.

63. Sena - May 31, 2008

#60, my comment referred to #35′s blogged breakdown of the picture where I did find a comment telling of their inclination of outlook towards monotheism. This description describes them as bathed in light and refers to “seeing the light”, an expression that denotes the realization of truth after discussing how the group in question is moving toward monotheism. This would imply that their change to monotheism is truth.

I believe all religions are equal in the quest for individual spirituality and this comment says otherwise and therefore I disagreed with it. With this and reading my last post, you will see there was no Christian bashing.

However, there was one thing you did bring to my attention that was wrong. I should not have stated specifically Christianity but monotheism instead.

64. Gorn Captain - May 31, 2008

So would this ending be sad or bittersweet? Only Baltar, Six, and Hera make it to Earth (just like they make it through the doors of the Opera House)?

65. Dom - May 31, 2008

Sena (63) read Ron Moore’s interview on Wired. The Cylon’s monotheist religion is intended to represent Christianity driving out the pagan Gods from Europe, only our ‘heroes’ are the pagans!

I know around a lot of science fiction forums there’s a liberal utter loathing of any religion: the revolting stereotype that anyone who believes in God is a nutter with a machine gun on his or her arm and an explosive belt wrapped around his or her waist persists.

But I’d remind people that the atheist states of the last century killed more people in 100 years than all the religious wars in history put together! Science itself is just another religion, using physics as the basis of its belief system.

The Cylon religion has aspects of the Egyptian religions and the three desert religions: Christianity, Islam and Judaism. All along, we’ve had characters ‘seeing the light’ which ties in with Judeo-Christian beliefs and the conversion of the Roman Empire to the Holy Roman Empire.

So, like it or not, the imagery and concepts draw heavily from Judeo-Christianity – Ron Moore comes from a Catholic background and acknowledges its influence.

That said, the show’s theme tune is a Hindu prayer – Hinduism being to all intents and purposes a monotheistic religion that acknowledges the existence of other Gods. Baltar’s moments away from reality where he talks to head-Six could tie in with Buddhist meditation.

However, I’m afraid the Christian bashers are going to have to accept that their religious intolerance will be severely tested by this show. Galactica has done all of us a favour by genuinely addressing religion’s good and bad sides in an intelligent manner. For too long, Star Trek put forward an unrealistic view of mankind’s future: a negative view where people’s freedom to believe in God has been abolished.

Galactica has reinvented science fiction on TV. Even though the naysayers think it will be forgotten, its impact among people in the TV business has been considerable and it will affect how future TV shows are made.

66. Garovorkin - May 31, 2008

Dom Trek wanted nothing to do with Organized religion of any kind, it never did. Glacatica embrace religion and it makes more then a few people uncomfortable.

67. CmdrR - May 31, 2008

Thanks, Mike. Nice to know I’m not losin’ my frakkin’ mind.

68. Garovorkin - May 31, 2008

Everbody what if Adama is in fact the 5th Cylon? i know that Ron Moore has alluded to the idea that it will be a peripheral character, but with all the red herrings that the cast has been throwing out whose to say that this is the case. We know Adam makes it to the base ship, we see the scene where Danna are togherther and it seems that she is identifying Laura aas the 5th but what if she is talking to some else who is in the room with them, why not Adama? the fith Cylon has to be someone on the base star and its not the other usual suspect kara there that rules her out. think about the scene for next week .

69. Dom - May 31, 2008

66. Good. Trek’s great failure was not to address one of the most fundamentally important aspects of human culture. That makes me and a lot of other people uncomfortable – partly because one wonders what must have been done to stop people having religious beliefs! If Galactica makes people ‘uncomfortable’ because it acknowledges how important religion is and implies that there might indeed be deities, angels and demons, then I’m glad! Maybe it gives people something to think about.

I actually find it hilarious if people are made ‘uncomfortable’ by a sci fi show that accepts religion and, indeed, includes what is possibly an angel in the version of Six that only Baltar sees. I noticed that when Head-Six hauled him to his feet when the guards were preventing him entering his home the other week, you could see her hand prints raised on Baltar’s suit as he was lifted up by her invisible force.

Actually, TOS was far more positive about religion than the later Treks, because TOS reflected the less dogmatic stance of Gene Roddenberry and his then-collaborators. It was in the late 80s when Roddenberry had very different, stronger views on the subject that Trek became militantly atheist.

I would love to have seen a padre on the Enterprise, in times of desperation, handing out cigarettes to injured crewmen and praying over the dying and the dead. I’d love to see a Muslim praying to Allah at the windows of the observation deck. I’d love to see Hindu crewmembers in their traditional celebratory dress when off duty. I’d love to see a crewmember with a crucifix above his or her bed who attends Church on Sunday. I’d love it if the Enterprise had a chapel. I’d love to see all the human and non-human belief systems co-existing as part of the debate as the seek greater knowledge in the universe.

For all Trek’s claims of Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations, it’s got a deep hypocrisy at its core, where human religion is concerned. Hopefully that’s something that the new Trek team will address at some point!

70. Garovorkin - May 31, 2008

Good dramas tends to make people uncomfortable . Like i am with the deep dark abyss of ending which is going swollow up the entire cast at the end of the series. (LOL)

71. MrRegular - May 31, 2008

#69 Dom
Good points. Don’t forget there was a chapel in “Balance of Terror”. Too bad it wasn’t used more often.

#70:
WTF??If you don’t like this site, why are you here? Nobody’s forcing you to go to mass, BTW.

72. sean - May 31, 2008

#65

I think you’ve picked the wrong opponent in your discussion. #58 didn’t bash religion. She/he merely stated that the blog mentioned had filtered its view of BSG through a (primarily) Christian lens. She later clarified that she was really referring to monotheism in general (Judeo-Christianity is obviously the best-known of the monotheistic religions). And reading that blog, I don’t think her statement is too far off. Of course, it also makes sense, given the image is an obvious tribute to The Last Supper, a definitive Christian image. Still, that doesn’t mean they hate Christianity, or that they’re atheist. They could be Islamic for all you know. The statement was merely that it was ‘too Christian biased’ in their opinion. That’s open to a great number of interpretations as to their belief system.

As for this statement: “But I’d remind people that the atheist states of the last century killed more people in 100 years than all the religious wars in history put together!”…at best, that would require a VERY selective interpretation of history. And just to be clear, I am not atheist either.

73. MrRegular - May 31, 2008

Oops…my reply to #70 was not intended for you Garovokin but for a poster who has been deleted.

74. Dom - May 31, 2008

72. Whoa whoa whoa! I wasn’t attacking no 58! Indeed, I pointed out that Galactica uses elements of countless religions, so was agreeing with him/her to some extent.

As for the remark about the atheist states . . . think about it: the world’s population’s bigger than it ever was before and in a tiny amount of time, they systematically persecuted, murdered, or left to die literally hundreds of millions of people.

75. Garovorkin - May 31, 2008

#73 Don’t worry MrRegular I saw the post 70 before it was deleted.

76. SoSayWeAll - May 31, 2008

I’m about through with this show now- i’ve been a huge fan but i just cannot stomach the geriatric love fest any more. First hot cylon Sharon starts dancin naked and making out with older-than-dirt cavil; a couple of weeks later, super-hot cylon Six starts necking with older-than-cavil tigh. I can’t help but to think the next step is ancient doc coddle porking starbuck, or graff goin’ at three a week later. Gerontology is not for me, not when super-hot babes are programed to frack old dudes. RDM has lost a fan.

77. sean - May 31, 2008

#74

Dom, you are 100% right. I mistook you and #60 as being one and the same, and clearly you are not. I’m sorry about that. Those comments were really directed at him.

I understand what you mean about population growth, but take into consideration the billions of people who have died in religious conflicts in the last 5000 years or so. My god (no pun intended), the Spanish Inquisition alone lasted nearly 400 years! The Crusades went on in various forms for at least 500 years. The Spanish conquistadors killed an estimated 15 million native South Americans. True ‘atheist states’ have only existed in the last 100 years, and whatever awful things some of those regimes have done, there’s no way the death toll is matched by 5000 years of very, very bloody history.

78. The Guy that will NEVER post again - May 31, 2008

Last post, possibly forever

If I get banned, I get banned defending myself and my beliefs. I get banned as an American

Those men that killed may have been nominal Christians, but they did not act in Christian ways. What I hate more than anything is people who tell only part of a story to “prove their point” and leave out the entire scope of history.

Lots of Christians died fighting other “Christians” bent on conquest. The Byzantine Christians (Eastern Orthodox ) Died fighting the Crusaders. What was the real reason the Crusades happened? Trade with China was suspended when the Muslims took Jerusalem. Richard the Lionheart settled for the tiny port city of Acre, why? Trade with China. Same reason Bush invaded Iraq, they wanted to control trade. If the Muslims had NEVER taken Jerusalem or denied Europe trade with China, there would have been no incentive to sail west to find China and America would be still be in the hands of it’s natives.

No one ever remembers the monks that came to America to help the Indians. No one remembers it was Catholics who wanted to liberate the slaves from the “god” fearing and Christmas-hating “Protestants” Even Thomas Jefferson was a “man of reason” and not a Christian except when it suited him. Franklin was openly atheist. So was Robespierre.

Whites, are you tired of “White Bashing” and “White Guilt” that certain comedians are constantly hitting you with? Why is it okay to hit Christians with “Christian Guilt” ???

I certainly never killed anyone in the name of God. I’ve never even been in a fight. I’m not calling for the conversion of the heathen. You and others are painting the entire Christian faith with the actions of a few bad apples, who aren’t at heart Christians. It’s not okay to say all Muslims are terrorists, then why is it okay to say all Christians are subjugators? Are all whites Misogynistic Slave Owners?

Enough with the BS already

Anthony, the site overall has been fun, but I don’t belong here

Peace

Out

79. Garovorkin - May 31, 2008

#78 Oh yeah like Fray Diego De Landa He was bishop of the Yucatan in th 16th century he burned all the Mayan Books, destroyed so much. he was ignorant and Cruel man. How many lives did he ruin I wonder, how much cultural heritage of native was lost was because people like him. What did the natives get in exchange for what they lost a new religion, Hardly a fair trade if you ask me.

80. Garovorkin - May 31, 2008

Back to Galactica, my question still stands, why can’t Adama be the 5th Cylon? does anyone have any thoughts on this one? Im not convinced that its a peripheral character, II think that it is a case of misdirection, but who knows. Ron Moore, David Eick and the whole Galactica cast, but not us.

81. John_Pemble - May 31, 2008

Wonderful program. A Wonderful compliment to Trek. Another universe and great quality. Hope for the prequel movies. What a great opportunity the writer’s strike may have provided for BSG.

82. Anthony Pascale - May 31, 2008

i feel like the discussion has gone a bit off topic here. I know religion is in Moore’s comments but lets not get personal with regards to it.

and Garovorkin I think half the posts are from you, including a replying to your own posts…that is spamming. I appreciate enthusiasm but you do not need to dominate the discussion with such a volume.

As for the episode last night, i liked it. They left the mystery of the other base ship unresolved which I prefer to not spell everything out the political stuff was fun. The whole thing with the cat was weird and didnt make sense. And Starbuck has transformed back into a model officer a bit too quickly after her whole captain Ahab routine.

but i continue to look forward to BSG as one of the smartest shows on TV.

83. sean - May 31, 2008

#78

I would certainly hope you stick around, and don’t leave over this one conversation. I only spoke up because I felt you had taken #58 out of context, or had viewed their comment in the wrong context. Sena didn’t bash Christianity; they merely expressed an opinion that the blog referenced used a primarily Christian frame of reference when interpreting BSG. I don’t think that if you take that comment at face value, it automatically translates into atheism or an anti-Christian bias.

As for my references to the Crusades, I wasn’t implying that Christians were alone in starting or participating in religiously motivated warfare (besides, the Crusades themselves were equally the fault of Christians AND Muslims). They were just common examples that most people would be familiar with. Your reference to Christians being pitted against Christians in the Crusades is well taken – it’s an all too common truth that members of the same faith often find themselves on opposite sides on a battlefield. How often does that happen in war? How religious leaders can reconcile such things is puzzling.

That aside, I think another point you’ve made is very valid – it’s often the leaders making decisions for others that fail to show the basic tenets of their faith. I think the majority of religious people throughout history have been good-hearted folk. I also happen to think most atheists are good-hearted folk. Sadly, the people in charge often are not. And just because someone kills in the name of a god, doesn’t mean that god approves or that their fellow believers do, either.

In fact, state-sponsored atheism isn’t really about a true belief as much as it’s about control. Stalin knew the church had considerable sway over the people (which is part of why he never completely disbanded the Orthodox church), and he didn’t want to share his power. So he had to replace god/the church/faith with something under his control. HItler recognized the same thing, even though he was a ‘quasi-religious’ person. And hey, it’s not as though Constantine didn’t recognize the equal power of state-sponosored religion.

I didn’t mean to imply religious individuals are any more prone to violence than those who aren’t. Really, I just wanted to make it clear that neither necessarily has the advantage. Ultimately, if you took all the religion away, I guarantee you people would still find things to fight about. Heck, half the time I think people on this site are going to tear eachother in half over what color the chairs on the Enterprise will be!

#82

Anthony, I just wanted #78 to know I wasn’t insulting his beliefs, so hopefully this comment doesn’t exacerbate anything.

84. Dom - May 31, 2008

What do they say? Never bring up religion and politics in civilised conversation? ;)

G’night guys! It’s been a pleasure chatting with you! :)

85. Gorn Captain - June 1, 2008

I think the things against Adama being a cylong now are:

-Lee is his son, so he would have to be a human/cylon hybrid, but Hera is said to be the first, and seems very important. Lee would lessen her importance.
-Adama is in the “Last Supper” picture, and RDM said (well of course it could be a lie) that the 5th isn’t in the picture.

However, Leoben did say “Adama is a cylon”, but it is likely he was lying. The S7 do not know who the F5 are anyway, so Leoben must have been making that up.

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