Wheaton Talks More Trek + Added To Comic Con Book Panel July 8, 2008
by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Feature Films (TMP-NEM), Star Trek (2009 film), TNG , trackback
In May former TNG actor and professional geek Wil Wheaton blogged (here and on his site) about the state of Star Trek and the future with JJ Abrams. Some of Wheaton’s controversial views kicked off a lot of talk amongst fans. Now in a new interview with our friends at Geek Magazine, Wheaton talks about the controversy and the fan ‘backlash’.
Excerpts from GeekMonthly.com
Geek Monthly: You’ve been fairly vocal about the idea of director J.J. Abrams wanting to reinvent Star Trek. Obviously, it’s difficult to work on a beloved franchise and not get some kind of backlash from the die-hard fans. Are you excited or apprehensive about the next phase of Star Trek?
Wil Wheaton: It’s something we’ve all heard before—”Long time fans of the franchise are going to be served and everyone is going to love it. But people who have never watched Star Trek before will also have fun. Even if you hate science fiction you will love this film. This movie is perfect for everyone!” And it just becomes this marketing thing.
But the people working on this next film have a very unique and daunting challenge. Star Trek is a phenomenon that spans generations. It has one of the most passionate, entrenched fan bases in the history of media. The truth is, over the last several years, Star Trek was run into the ground and the franchise was nearly destroyed by the films and the television series that were not being guided by a good hand.
J.J. Abrams is a pretty good filmmaker. Cloverfield and the first season of Lost were great. So you have this guy who’s really creative and has a pretty good track record of making science-fiction related programs and you put him in the right seat and say, “Now fly this franchise and recreate it.” The pressure that he must be under to deliver something magnificent, and the amount of studio interference must be enduring, has got to be nearly indescribable. So I have a lot of sympathy and understanding based on those things.
But as a sci-fi fan, we live in a post Phantom Menace world. That movie was a huge kick in the nuts to a lot of people. For those of us that Star Wars meant more to us than just a movie, it was devastating. I think the same thing with Star Trek. It means more to people than just being a TV show. If you look at the track record that Hollywood has making lifelong properties that really matter to people into movies you see a string of failures. Star Trek fans really want this to be good.
Geek Monthly: That makes sense considering a lot of the older Star Trek films have been pretty bad.
Wil Wheaton: Oh, they’re horrible! There are two really great mainstream films, and two that are really enjoyable for Star Trek, fans, and the remainder are unwatchable. If we’re going to be Star Trek fans and hold J.J. Abrams to a certain level of excellence we have to be willing to admit and acknowledge that we’re even lucky this is even happening at all.
For much more with Wheaton, check out the from GeekMonthly Blog or pick up the latest issue on newsstands.
Wheaton on Comic Con Panel
In our Comic Con update last week we noted there would be a “Star Trek without a blueprint” panel with the Trek publishers IDW and Pocket Books. Today Wil Wheaton has been added to the panel, representing Tokyo Pop (publishers of the Star Trek Manga). Wheaton wrote a story in the second volume of Tokyo Pop’s Star Trek Manga which came out last September and also has a story in the third volume which should come out next week.
Second and third volumes of Star Trek Manga (featuring Wil Wheaton) available at Amazon:
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Comments»
I think Wil makes some good points, and these are similar to his past observations. I don’t envy Roberto, J.J., and the others their task of trying to freshen up Trek while stating true to the source material and the long-time fans.
well I’m sure he’s going to have a great review on the new movie….
I’m curious about which two films that Wheaton thinks are great “mainstream” films and which two are enjoyable for “fans”. My guess is:
Mainstream:
Wrath of Khan
First Contact
Fans:
Voyage Home
Undiscovered Country
Y’know, I’ve never really understood the whole “enjoyable for people who never saw the TV show” concept.
Only once have I ever had an interest in going to the cinema to see a movie based on a TV show I had never seen or wasn’t already interested in. I enjoyed the movie, but I’m not going to say what it was because people who WERE fans of the original show were unanimous in saying that it completely desecrated the property it was based on.
So, although I can understand from an economic standpoint why studios want to appeal to a broader audience than the existing TV fan base, but I’m not sure if that ever actually works. Anyone else?
3,
I think that Voyage Home is really more of a mainstream one. You don’t have to love Star Trek to enjoy the bizarre tale. Most of my friends, who all have never seen an episode Trek, have seen Voyage Home, and have loved it.
3: The Voyage Home *not* mainstream? It was the biggest grossing Trek film of all. It was definitely more than a fanwank. Sorry… I’m just a little taken aback by your assessment.
My picks:
Mainstream:
The Voyage Home
The Wrath of Khan
Fans:
The Undiscovered Country
First Contact
Unwatchable:
Final Frontier
Generations
Insurrection
Nemesis
Better than Wil thinks they are:
Search for Spock
The Motion Picture (Director’s Edition)
#6
I think you nailed it perfectly.
Yes, most of my friends say “I don’t know anything about Trek. Oh, but I liked the one with the whales.”
First contact was the best…
Say what you want, but I don’t think any Star Trek film is “horrible”. Sure some are way better than others, but at the very least they’re entertaining. These movies hold up against so much crap out there. And I’m not just saying that as a Trek fan but as a fan of movies.
How to describe this?
such a sheltered and privileged youth… wanting so badly to be not only taken seriously as a writer, but also an insider. Such radical and extreme statements, every time you hear from the guy. “Maybe I’ll show that I have the Cajones, if I say what everyone REALLY thinks, but are afraid to really honestly say”.
So opinionated and controversial.
Well, kiddo… let me show you how that’s done! * proper *
First of all, I’d suggest we learn ya some ALT codes. Because we’re gonna be T®adema®king™ and ©opywriting™ everything along the way, just to pretty it up a bit. And don’t forget the RANDOM CAPS® when you REALLY™ need to make a point.
Willy Wheaton©, my boy… it is I, the grate h69. I am the greatest writer that ever was, or will be. This is a fact.
And do you want to know why that is? BECAUSE me do it for free on the interwebs, simply because I am able. Not for da fame or fortune©. Just because it blows your mind. Oooops me did it again, Britney™.
Me gots brain Veeeeahhhgra™, WillyBoy!!! Aiiiighht? Speeee-lunk!
BEST!!
=h=
I am going to reserve judgment until i see the movie. I though the new BSG was going to be awful and it is the best Sci-Fi on TV today. I thought the new Bionic Woman was going to be bad ass and it was terrible. I was leery about the Sarah Conner Chronicles and I LOVE that show and I was doubtful the Sex and the City movie would re create the magic and they did way beyond my expectations.
I am going to quit “guessing” as to whether the new movie is going to be good or bad since I have learned I won’t know until I see it.
Team JJ not only have to live up to the history of Star Trek, but all the great movies that have come out in recent years. Movies like Iron Man and the Spiderman franchise have raised the stakes. Fans want and expect good storytelling, great acting and amazing special effects. I for one, hope team JJ hits a grand slam.
Wil rocks. Haters to the left already.
I still don’t get why Insurrection was so bad. Generations was pretty bad, from a TOS perspective. Admittedly, it has a very badly-written script involving Kirk. Had it just stuck to the Klingons, it would’ve gone better. I’m still rejoicing that they got rid of that THING known as 1701-D. The E is so much better.
The only TNG movie that “unbearable” is Nemesis.
Save the whales!
# 6
The real sadness there is that the unwatchable ones consist more of TNG movies. It’s a shame, but the TNG movie kinda tarnished the show.
I would include The Search for Spock in your unwatchable list. The first movie was very successful for it’s time. The third movie is just a stinker through and through.
I don’t see why people could be angry with his statements. I’m a long time fan (over 50) and watched from the beginning of the series.
What he says it true. It’s been run into the ground.
If Abrahams can reinvent the series, keep the core components, but reinvent the excitement, then what’s wrong with that?
deleted by admin
#10 You are a complete jerk.
I thought Nemesis was just the biggest pile o’crap!
Generations and V’ger are my faves.
If Trek can keep it up to that level, I’ll go see ‘em!
hitch…final warning for trolling
this site is not all about you, it is about Trek. banned for a week
Cindy
warning for flaming
Damien
banned
…people. Keep it civil
# 10 uh Whatever the Name Was….
I agree about Wheaton. as Far the Greatest Writer that ever lived, Uh there is this one guy on here, “British Naval Dude” I believe you might have to get in line After. Not to mention that “Mongo” character.
Thats the second time Wheaton has said that there were 2 mainstream movies and 2 that were good for fans. When will he just come out and say what the hell they are? Every Trek fan has there own opinions on the movies why can’t he admit his openly, exactlly?
#14: The Search for Spock a “stinker through and through?” Oh, no. Not by a longshot.
That film isn’t perfect, but it’s filled with memorable moments:
The destroyed Enterprise streaking across the sky
Kirk’s grief over David’s death
Spock’s realization of who his friends are
Uhura and “Mr. Adventure”
Sulu: “Don’t call me ‘Tiny’”
The Transwarp failure screen: “Good Morning, Captain.”
and finally…a Kirkgasm for those James T fans out there:
“I. Have. Had. Enough. Of. YOU!”
Definitely way better than Wil thinks.
19: Thanks. Appreciate all your hard work.
Note: I hate this submission form – it just trashed my entire first post.
While I disagree with Wil on specific films, I heartily agree with his overall comments.
Personally I find the Wrath of Khan – Search for Spock – Voyage Home Trilogy to be epic.
Motion Picture was epic fail.
Final Frontier could’ve been alot better then it was.
Nemesis tanked and I put sole blame on the cutting of Wil’s scenes.
Honestly I thought Undiscovered Country was a great way to send off the TOS crew, and Generations was a great way to introduce the TNG crew to the big screen. Plus they totally wouldn’t have crashed the 1701-D if Wesley was at the helm.
Wil = writing and being published
Haters = writing and not being published
He’s a genius, and you’re living in your mom’s basement.
What the hell #10? You’re a jerk.
Missouri gal
warning for trolling
Hicks
warning for flaming
lets stop with the attacks and labeling of each other
19
AP
Bravo!
#20
Mongo thank. BND know Mongo have trouble with dialog. And wardrobe. Mongo think it funny if Wil Wheaton mans get cast as bad guy in Trek movie XII.
I think I’m more forgiving than Wil on the number of unwatchable ones. Certainly 2, 4, 6, and 8 were top quality entertainment. 1 I consider pretty unwatchable now, 3 is actually pretty good though not top tier. 5 I always say is most like the TV show, with all it’s strengths and weaknesses both. 7 was a little lackluster though it was nice to see Picard and Kirk together. 9 once again suffered from a poor script, and while 10 was marginally better, it certainly isn’t top tier. The trend I see is that when you have Nicholas Mayer doing at least the script, you have a good film. When any of the TNG tv writers attempt it, you have something disappointing.
Glad to see Wil’s getting to Comicon. Hope to see him down in TX someday to talk a little geek :)
Oops – - Anthony, shouldn’t the poll read
… Star Trek XI … as opposed to IV
or have I missed something?
kg
Very little studio interference. They have been nothing but supportive of everything we wanted to do.
The fact that Wil thinks Lost season 1 was the only decent season of the show invalidates most of his comments about Abrams & Co.
Of course, Orci and Kurtzman didn’t have anything to do with Lost, so really, that comparison doesn’t make much sense in the first place.
I liked the pilot of Fringe (sort of), so here’s hoping that when given a sandbox to play in which doesn’t involve huge robots, Orci & Kurtzman (and Lindelof and Abrams and etc etc) put something together that’s worthwhile.
And, since everyone else is doing it, what the hell, why not:
“Popular appeal:
- Voyage Home
- First Contact
“For the Trekkies”:
- Wrath of Khan
- Undiscovered Country
And movies which Wil probably doesn’t like, but are still solid:
- Search For Spock
- The Motion Picture
Star Trek III is ridiculously underrated — and while there were a number of missteps (Robin Curtis, the lack of Bibi Besch, the silly protomatter way they justified the death of David, etc.), it’s certainly better than Insurrection, Nemesis, Generations, or Final Frontier. IMHO, of course.
THIS POST HAS BEEN A DISASTER
I think there is something to love in most of the Star Trek films. I think it’s been said before about certain Trek movies “it may be bad but it’s Star Trek” and as a star trek fan I’ll go and see it.
I like Will Wheaton but I disagree that all but two of the movies suck. I love all the original movies and yes including the Final Frontier, there where some great character moments in that movie. Also the The Motion Picture (Director’s Edition) has recently opened my eyes to how good the movie really was and should have been first time around.
The next Generations movies are ok as well, First contact was great and is the best for sure but I don’t dislike Generations either, it had some nice moments in it. When I first saw it I thought it was a mistake to kill off Kirk, over the years that passed I changed my mind and understood the decision and saw it as a passing of the baton so to speak. But it’s only the last few years I changed my mind again and wished they hadn’t as I would have loved to see him in the new movie but as we all know now it’s not to be.
The other TNG films “Insurrection” and “Nemesis” were and probably are the weakest of all the Trek movies. I would say “Insurrection” is probably the worse and my least favourite. But as I said before I still find something to enjoy when repeat watching them. As I said its Star Trek and I am a Star Trek fan.
I am not saying you can’t say they suck if you think they do its just I choose to look hard for something I like in all of them. And yes that means I looked very hard when I watched “Insurrection”.
Bob,
you mean Paramount didn’t try and force you to put Eddie Murphy in as a ‘jive dude’? They must be losing their touch
I’m really going to have to disagree with Wheaton here. “Unwatchable”? That’s a bit extreme. Only Star Trek V and Insurrection make me wince, but there are still great moments in those films. What really fills me with confidence is that we’ve gotten a whole new team to take on Trek. While the Berman era produced some excellent Trek on television, they fell short in the films department. Even the Harve Bennett era got old after awhile.
I’ve always considered ST movies 1-4, 6, 7, and 8 to all be excellent movies, although some of them have had a few things I’d change. My only real beef is that I’ve never cared for the Enterprise E. The destruction of the Enterprise D was an awesome special effects sequence, but I wish they had worked the script somehow to keep her alive at the end. Perhaps something to do with the Nexus, I dunno. The Enterprise D was graceful and beautiful, the Enterprise E just looks like a big spoon as far as I’m concerned.
Even 5, 9, and 10 had their moments, though they were all pretty weak. Even though 5 had the worst effects of the bunch, I always did love that shot of the Enterprise A hanging in orbit with the moon behind it. Beautiful!
I personally can watch and enjoy all of the Trek movies except for Search for Spock and Insurrection. I just can’t sit all the way through them…so boring…
IMHO,
1) ST II: TWOK
2) ST VI: TUC
3) First Contact
4) TMP
5) ST III: TSFS
6) ST IV: TVH
7) Insurrection
8) Generations
9) Nemesis
10) ST V: TFF
I’m hoping ST XI moves into the #1 spot!
#20
Since the subject of writing has sprouted up amongst the usual (and expected) multi-directional tangents and fodder we all so lovingly seek out in electronic forums, I think I shall pause, ask pardon for neglecting the focus of the thread, and reply to a thought expressed. A thought which, failing non-verbal clues, falls without context and is as such merely prey to individual interpretation. I shall assume all context herein is but gentle nudging, hardly ever out of anything venomous. After all, we all share a common passion. But I ramble- my point thus then:
My linguistic capabilities are rather well honed and they serve me well as I translate thoughts, dreams, and wonderments into organized communal symbols upon humble pages. (Sound priggish, don’t I?)
More important than myself, however, is the notion that one’s honest, open, well intentioned imagination and fancy are not lashed to restraints- at least not within the kingdom of the written word. For nothing is cost prohibitive and nothing is too grand or opinionated or unruly to be dismissed as unattainable by thoughts spread out upon the page. Words are rain droplets altering the cursed sand into soothing mud; blessing any barren soil into a rich, dark birthplace.
But there is one singular point of guidance a good writer will never allow themselves to be led apart from in their trek along corridors of ideas, souls, and sense… and that bastion, that foundation, that very essence of what conjures the black marks on white screen into a communal ether of action, love, hope, and, quite frankly, everything else dear and deplored during life; that one rule of writing, that lone lighthouse that keeps the void of nothingness at bay is this:
Use tha’ term “arrrrrr” as much as ye’ bloody can, mates. Bangke foo-lingerin’ hunda poo! I didn’t type dis wit’ me hands, be fair warnin’ thar…
I chide to manifest my earnest endearment.
Hey- Why does Wil Wheaton just bring out tha’ worst in us all? I be gettin’ tha’ boot next fur such gangly-poo frakten… arrrrrr… that’s tha’ interwebb fur ye’ , folks… never know what’ll come up next… she-male demandin’ ta’ leave BND alone…
Anthony,
Don’t even joke. Though, it would still be better than Will Farrel….
The casting is perfect for this movie. I wouldn’t have it any other way. Only maybe if Zach Quinto played every character rather than just Spock.
WW: The pilot in command flies from the left seat.
BND,
Mother of pearl…. your writing is like poetry… In all the time I have been with TM, I have never seen that side of you. Bravo, indeed.
Well, none of us knows which movies Wheaton was talking about. Maybe he’ll clue us in sometime. But, it seems to me that the two times the Trek movie franchise was “reinvented” it was a success – STII and STFC. In TWOK, Nick Meyer was brought in to shake things up. It worked. In First Contact, granted, it was the same team who brought us Generations, but again, the entire “look and feel” was changed – new ship, new uniforms, darker storylines.
All this happened using the same characters we know and love. That’s what JJ and Co. are here to do. Bring a fresh perspective and update the visuals and storytelling technique, while keeping the core values and characters of Trek alive. Whether they can actually bring in a new audience, or be successful with more than one movie remains to be seen, but unlike Mr. Wheaton, I have no doubt this “reinvention” will be good for Paramount and good for the fans.
Hi Bob, glad to see you still hanging around here!
For me Insurrection easily is the worst film of the bunch.
All of TNG actors appeared “tired and relativly uninterested” in that film and it just had no energy.
Trek V wasn’t bad until the ending on the “Delusions of Godhood” planet. Poor Shat gets blamed for having his special effects buget slashed in the middle of production. Not really his fault, blame Paramount people!
Bob, If your still around, I want you to know that I have complete faith in Team JJ to make a excellent movie. Lost, Alias, and MI-3 should be all that’s necessary to say, to know that JJ knows how to do action-adventure, tinged with sci-fi!
Especially after that other site published some spoilers pertaining to some clips that JJ supposedly showed someone, which got seriously high reviews if you can believe that it actually happened.
Oh, and please tell JJ that we the fans NEED a new trailer to help make it till next summer!!! Please, Please, Please!!
Until Next Time,
FM!!
re: #40
Anthony mans! Send help! It look like someone kidnap BND mans for part of his comment! That thought cogent and artful. Great skill in communicate. And good use thesaurus. Mongo inspired. Will study word more gooder to use.
ARRRR!
Wil and I have been trading emails today. I will be doing a TrekMovie interview with him to promote the new Manga in a couple of weeks. I will be sure to ask him which movies are on his list.
Unwatchable is a pretty strong word to use for any Trek on a Trek board. I have even sat and enjoyed or tryed to enjoy all the early TNG episodes featuring a fairly unlikeable, yet precoucious character.
Even bad trek is better than no trek at all…….
I generally find him quite annoying and arrogant about his geekdom, but I do find some merit in what he says here:
“If we’re going to be Star Trek fans and hold J.J. Abrams to a certain level of excellence we have to be willing to admit and acknowledge that we’re even lucky this is even happening at all.”
That’s hitting the nail on the head. Some fans foget to be grateful that someone is doing anything at all on the big screen with the franchise, much less that Paramount is actually pouring $150 million into it…
…On the other hand, I disagree completely with the preceeding statement:
” Oh, they’re horrible! There are two really great mainstream films, and two that are really enjoyable for Star Trek, fans, and the remainder are unwatchable.”
I can watch 5 of the 6 Star Trek films featuring the original iconic characters just about any time and be entertained. Only one of them was “horrible”(TFF), and 2 of them were fantastic, IMO (TMP and TWOK).
Anthony, I know you like Will Wheaton and supposedly he is a Trek fan – however, I want to phaser him slowly when I hear those comments. All but two of the Trek movies are unwatchable? If that were truly the case, Paramount would have thrown any and all Trek scripts in the dustbin long ago, as no one would have filled the theatres to see them. Oh, and all the VHS and DVD copies of these unwatchable movies produced by Paramount, why would anyone bother to buy them? My opinion: Mr. Wheaton needs to borrow a quarter and buy a clue.
#32 BobO- That’s good to hear. They left the DS9 crew alone and what got produced was THE very best of modern Trek.
(Hope you guys checked at least a few eps out…)
BND#40- Come live with me, and be my love… O coz, coz, coz, that thou didst know how many fathom deep I am in love! But it cannot be sounded; my affection hath an unknown bottom, like the bay of Portugal…
#47 – Anthony – thanks. It’ll be interesting to hear. For all his accused “geekiness” he’s doing a good job of putting himself out there and bringing attention to his work.
MONGO#46- le giggle…
arrrrr… thanke thar’ folks, oh, and as ye’ like it…
geez- had an odd dream did I… awoke quite afright wearin’ Wes Crusher underoos…
Arrrrrrr some morrrrrre….
I just got a copy of will shatners book autographed to me personally how awsome is that!
#7
Yes, most of my friends say “I don’t know anything about Trek. Oh, but I liked the one with the whales.”
You just quoted about 5 or 6 people I know incl. my girlfriend of 2 years.
V – Is the only one that is unwatchable. It reminds me of those bad movies that the Sci-Fi channel shows on Saturday night.
My fav is First Contact followed by Voyage Home and then the Wrath of Khan.
The others I would rate 2 or 2 1/2 stars and I do enjoy watching them because it is Star Trek.
My gut instinct, not hope but real instinct is that JJ’s Trek will certainly not be a Phanton Menace. My feeling is more of a Casino Royal/Batman Begins-style potential to be a great relaunch. But then I know that I can sometimes be very wrong…!
@ Boborci:
I have good faith that you’ve done solid work with the TREK 09 script but even then it all depends now on the final cut.
(still waiting to be invited, Mr. Abrams… I can keep my mouth shut)
# 59
What you said. Those 2 films franchise remakes certainly helped open the eyes of the bean counters at Para, along with MI 3.
Phantom Menace was indeed a “kick in the nuts” to many. The prequels essentially destroyed some major iconic SW characters, and were horribly written and acted.
in Corporate America, the fans will always be ignored in favor of the least common denominator. A CEO’s job is to the shareholders first.
You could see between TVH and TFF that the studio was highly involved. Humor worked then, so do it now. Hence, the useless light banter amongst key characters, and the Scotty/Uhura affair.
Anthony, thanks for the WW update. Always like to hear what he has to say.
When will talks about bad movies i agree to a point. of the 4 tng movies 2 were realy bad and only first contact was good.Generations was so so.Rick berman almost sunk star trek with his bad choices.Will Wheaton made his biggest mistake in leaving the next generation and only appearing for a brife moment in nemises. The tos actors were inpressed they were with the new movie and jj abrams. Even james cawley who is a very vocal tos purest is inpressed and he is even in the movie as well. You have nimoy himself acting in the movie and he does not do movies unless he loves the script so that alone should be enough for every one.so what trek has will wheaten done except for a very small role on nemises.He is more of a fan then an insider. For all the tos actors and tos purest like james cawley of new voyages and now phase 2 are all on board with the new movie and in hearing how jj abrams and comp are treating thre new movie with respect and in respectin Gene Roddenberry is the best thing for them to do.So as a Tos purest i think the new Star trek movie is in good hands and i for one can’t wait till next year for the new and Star trek movie.
The death of the 1701 in Search for Spock stands as the greatest moment in silence in theatres around the nation. Even the most minor of Trek or Science Fiction fan lost part of thier heart at that moment.
Un bearable films? the only ones to me truly unbearable are Nemesis and Insurrection. Those are the newspapers lining the cage of the Great Bird of the Galaxy.
Everyone knows Star Trek 5 and Star Trek: The Movie are the best. Those film’s have load’s of explosion’s.
Will is quite right…..everyone loves those films. Did you know he played Wesley in the original series (anyone remember that show I think his mom was the coucillor!)
Explosion’s rox lol!
Denise,
Only phasers? I was thinking more like quantum torpedos full-spread.
I love all of them, I have found value in each and every one (including Insurection). I understand why people had qualms with them, and I also understand that they didn’t draw fans or make a whole lot of money, but I have everyone of them on DVD and watch them. I saw Generations again for the first time in about 5 years and I loved it.
The proplem is none of these movies tried to recast any characters, and they weren’t rewriting history.
But the end-all is that I will probably enjoy this movie too, and in a couple years I’ll have it on DVD.
RE: 6. Marvin the Martian
“… picks:
Mainstream:
The Voyage Home
The Wrath of Khan
Fans:
The Undiscovered Country
First Contact
Unwatchable:
Final Frontier
Generations
Insurrection
Nemesis
Better than Wil thinks they are:
Search for Spock
The Motion Picture (Director’s Edition)”
MTM, you listed the movies exactly as I would have.
Anthony Pascale:
Thanks for the policing of the board.
I like a bit of banter, attempts at humor, and even controversy, but sometimes the flamers and out of control egos bother me. I’m sure you sometimes feel like a grade school teacher at recess. Anyway, the job you do here is respected and appreciated by those of us that often visit and post here.
Thanks again.
Older Trek films bad? Uh yeah, has he ever seen Insurrection or Nemesis?
i guess mainstream he means = TVH and FC
and the 2 trek fans enjoy – TWOK and TUC
but cmon!! TSFS is awesome
TMP is thought of quite highly now…
and although GEN is a big letdown it aint terrible…
only bad ones are TFF, INS and NEM
I rather guess that his view is more like:
Mainstream: 2 and 4. #2 has Montalban chewing it up. #4 thar be whales.
For the fans: 3 and 6. #3 bridges well from 2 to 4. #6 has ‘not in front of the Klingons’.
1 is tough to watch *in its original state*. The ABC version, and the directors’ version are really different movies.
5 is the Unfinished Trek. Let the Remastered team have a crack at it, please!!!
All the TNG movies fit Wheaton’s unwatchable. “All Good Things…” was the perfect bookend to TNG. 7 has a boatload of continuity errors. 8 has a ton more of continuity errors and outright nonsense with Picard Borg again. They made a 9 and 10? ;)
I disagree. Generations and First Contact are good TNG films
I don’t hate the previous movies (except for Insurection) But I do like Will.
His opinions are a litte extreme at times, but everyone’s entitled to an opinion (As scotty would say)
Wil’s comment about being in a “post-Phantom Menace world” was absolutely right on. I wanted to stand up and cheer when I read that. I’m cynical as hell about Hollywood in general when it comes to re-makes, sequels and the like. First Star Wars, then Indiana Jones – one by one we are watching franchises that were the cornerstones of great moviemaking fall prey to those in Hollywood who claim to to have their best interests at heart. I pray that J.J. Abrams is sincere and will succeed. The thought of seeing another one of my favorite movie franchises turned into something with all the sophistication and glamour of a mediocre video game really scares me.
The Search for Spock is a very good film because of emotional moments in the film. It shows a closeness of the original crew as never seen before. Consider:
1) Rescuing Dr. McCoy from a mental hospital.
2) Stealing the Enterprise.
3) Sacrificing the Enterprise to save Spock
4) Spock and McCoy in the Bird of Prey sickbay. (The finest scene in the film!!!!)
5) Spock recognizing Kirk and the crew gathering around him at the end.
Whatever story weaknesses there are, the emotinal impact of the film cannot be ignored.
#75
I’m sorry, the film just bores me. After the ship is destroyed, I turn it off. Sometimes, I can’t even make it that far.
I think Robert Wise did a wonderful job cleaning up his TMP with the “Director’s Edition,” yes there are still flaws but it’s quite an aweome movie.
The II-III-IV trilogy is wonderful of course. Yeah III wasn’t as good as the other two but it was a solid film nonetheless.
Yeah, V is pretty bad. That erotic Uhura dance scene can REALLY make you cringe, as does the whole Sybok thing and such. I don’t blame Harve Bennett for this atrocity.
VI was a wonderful sendoff for the original crew.
Generations – this is also pretty bad. Plot holes, as well as perhaps the worst way to destroy a starship – for kicks. I’d have to quesiton Picard and RIker for this…I’d have Riker busted down at least one step in rank and refuse for over a decade to give him starship command.
First Contact – Pretty much the only good TNG film of the bunch.
Insurrection – I used to like this movie, but it’s not really that great. They overdid too much in the humor department with some questionable lines: “Boobs firming up?” PULLEAASE!! And yes, the joystick was also very stupid. (One of the reasons I’ll never get an SCE of this).
Nemesis – EASILY the worst of the bunch. It’s a horrible clone of TWOK. Shinzon stunk as a villain, the whole cheap Data/B4 thing, the dune buggy (which was WORSE than the joystick), I know there was a website that pretty much illustrated how much of a joke this movie was. OK the battle scenes were a bit fun to watch, but that’s about it.
My turn.
TMP: Much better once they let Robert Wise actually finish the thing (should go down in the record books and the longest test screening in cinema history). Much more rewatchable nowadays.
TWOK: Fun popcorn movie, but hasn’t aged well. Not as rewatchable.
TSFS: Pretty much for fans and those who can put up with ‘em. Could do without the attempted pon farr moment, since it added absolutely nothing but a nice closeup of the lovely Robin Curtis. And, as a letter to Starlog pointed out at the time, there probably weren’t two bolts left from the original ship when Kirk blew her up, so the pain has eased somewhat. No problem rewatching it from time to time.
TVH: Since it’s essentially a period piece, it doesn’t matter that it’s a bit dated. Still fun.
TFF: Clunker with its heart in the right place. With the budget woes and the studio meddling, it’s a wonder it’s not any worse. Only really watchable in the form of the MST3K parody some fans made several years ago (available on DVD; I’ll try and dig up the link).
GEN: An abomination against all of Star Trek and the reason so many of us are clamoring for Shatner to be included in the current film, TO UNDO THIS TRAVESTY AT ONCE!! Only reason I bought the DVD was for the tribute to Matt Jefferies on Disc Two.
FC: Not bad, plays a bit fast and loose with the canon, but at least they do it smarter than the last venture. No problem rewatching this one every so often.
INS: Really a lot better than the bashers give it credit for. If this had been put out as a TNG two-parter, it would’ve been hailed as a great couple of episodes, but as a movie, it comes up a bit short (mainly because after all these films where the stakes are so damned high, this one doesn’t really have all that much hanging on the outcome). Still watchable.
NEM: Where the wheels finally come off the wagon, and rightfully trash Stuart Baird’s directing career (stick to editing, Stu). Just one stupid moment after another, (a clone of Picard that looked nothing like him, a dirt buggy ride in blatant violation of the Prime Directive, etc.) with a director that never got it and didn’t care that he didn’t get it. When I saw it in the theatre (a very sparsely populated theatre), I was able to manage a bit of a MST3K thing going myself, it was getting so predictable (and nobody in the theatre seemed to mind). And any time you have Dina Meyer in the cast, YOU DON’T HIDE HER UNDER A POUND OF FREAKIN’ LATEX!!! Baird should be slapped for that offense alone! Frankly, I think Nemesis’ lousy box office take owes more to the fans being disgusted with how things were going with “Enterprise” at the time, and torpedoing NEM was the only real way to make their displeasure known; what kept the film from rebounding in later weeks was the fact that it was a lousy movie. Utter crap and rewatchable only in the most extreme circumstances. Like researching for a paper on how NOT to make a Star Trek movie.
71
If “continuity errors” were a valid criteria for judging ST episodes and films, then very few of them, including most TOS eps and films would get a passing grade. And, what’s wrong with Picard/Borg? They were among the best ST eps and certainly one of the top 4 ST films. You are in a small minority when you dismess First Contact and Best of Both Worlds is consistently ranked in the top five TNG eps of all time.
78
What was the canon with which FC played “fast and loose”?
Again, most TOS and TNG eps and films were loose with canon, so what’s the big deal?
Is Wil not entitled to his opinion?!?! I don’t completely agree with him, either; however, I do value his opinion and listen to what he has to say. And he’s been closer to parts of Star Trek that I can only dream of. I enjoyed The Motionless Picture when it first came out, but never paid to watch it on the big screen again. My feeling about it have only worsened with time. Unwatchable? No. In the top ten thousand of all time good films? Hardly. Embarrassingly, I’ve not seen the Director’s Cut, but based upon comments herein, I will rectify that omission ASAP. Then maybe I’ll change my mind.
Not interested anymore in knowing Wil’s opinion about how “horrible” some Star Trek films were to him. I can make up my own opinion, frankly, and it’s different from his.
#80: “What was the canon with which FC played “fast and loose”?
Again, most TOS and TNG eps and films were loose with canon, so what’s the big deal?”
Yeah…I guess you could even say they were *loose cannons*…
(ba dum bum tsh!)
I’m sorry…I just had to say that. :)
Anyway, getting back on topic, I can enjoy all the movies, but the best of the best in my opinion are the Bennet/Meyer Trilogy (Wrath of Kahn, Search for Spock, Voyage Home), The Undiscovered Country (which is basically an extended epilogue to the former), and First Contact.
In the good-but-not-great category are Generations and, possibly, Insurrection (I haven’t seen this one in a loooong time, though, so I can’t really speak about with much authority), bad is The Motion Picture and The Final Frontier (though I have something of a soft spot for this film…), and the worst of the worst, in my opinion, is Nemesis.
Got all that?
My favourites are First Contact Insurrection Generations TUC and for some reason I find myself watching Nemesis from time to time lol.
In regards to unwatchable movies, Wil must have been referring to the TNG movie where the bad guy has a big nasty weapon that is going to kill a lot of people, but they manage to stop the countdown with just a second or two left.
Oh wait, that was Star Trek movies 7, 9 and 10!
Talk about originality, LOL!
P.S. Even The Wrath of Kahn had the same rift, but it was the first and it was executed very well. No complaints there.
I like that Wheaton is savy enough not to take all the usual PR stuff at face value – “it honors the past in a totally new way that will make people who never liked it, love it! Its everything to everyone!” If the movie ends up being all that its being built up to be, I’ll be happy to drink the kool-aid then, but not before.
Trek V for all its flaws paints an inspired encounter with the “Godhead” which continues to move me deeply whenever I see it. That and the death scene of McCoy’s Dad-powerfully acted. Believe me it’s tough to see parents who were once vital, active, successful professionals reduced to vegetative states due to fatal diseases.
He is as bad as he said Shatner was to him when he was on the set of TNG.
(BND)………….See? and you guys thought i was being sARrrcastic…….
I think Trek III Beats the Odd# movie curse. definitely. hopefully XI will too.
I get the feeling That It’ll either reverse the Odd and Even # movie curse for the next….. however many, or dispatch it completely. Gee It sure is a lot less hitchy In here.
I’ve always liked that Wheaton’s bluntness, even when I don’t always agree with him. He’s interesting to talk to at cons and very accessible which is nice.
I’m with you Steve623. I’ll drink the cool-aid after I see the film, not before. Been up and down too many roads with Trek over the years with the near tv-shows, the movies, the TV shows and TNG films.
I am Wil Wheaton made his comments. I actually agree with all the points he made and I am glad that someone within the Star Trek television universe spoke up and said what alot of us feel.
TL, I’m with you!
Star Trek The Motion Picture The Directers Edition is a Great New old Movie. When i first seen the directers edition it was like watching a new movie inside of an old movie.They did away with that annoying computer voice and made the klaxen sound more like all the other sirens in star trek and the fx was much better. the music sounds more crisp and It has a newer feel to it. What can you say about The Wrath of Khan then by Saying KHAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. The serch for spock was a good movie and remember it’s the second of the triogy and was great in it gave us klingon language and a decent fight and was the first movie to have the Bird of prey.The Enterprise blowing up the Kirk Disobeying orders was kinda kool. The voyage home is a classic and Saving the Whales is always a good cause. Ok the finanal Frontier Was a huge disapointment. it had some great scenes like mccoy say to kirk he liked spock better before he died.The Death of mccoys father was and is a Tear jerker. Number 6 was fantastic. With Kim Cattrail as a vulcan And she is a sexy one at that. The story the action and gen chang Was wonderfull. OK generations to me was ok but Mostly a joke to me. The Music was good and some of the action was good. But Thars it. First contact Was great and had everything a Trek movie should have. A great story and action and great value. The only thing Nemesis had in it was the Starship battles and thats it. The story was bad the acting was Not up to par and The directing was margenel. But the fx was the only saving grace. Heres to Trek 11 and lets hope this is the best of them all.
ahhhh… The Last Maquis, me mate… this be a nice place our over-seer Lord Anthony has provided for us ta’ share ideas and comments… glad ta’ see yer reply… I hopes as well that tha’ “odd man out” syndrome be reveresed wit’ JJ’s film…
Uh, oh… I’m movin’ inta’ bad Trek as I begin ta’ sing:
I’ve got faith!
In me heart!
That JJ’s not gunna bend or break Trek
I’ve got faith!
In me heart!
That we Trekkites will somehow gunna’ like it
I’ve got faith!
(I’ve got faith, also got scurvy and crabs)
Faith that Anthony’ll keep us all on course, yay
So, what can we pour in tha’ ear o’ our receptive and bonny Lord Anthony ta’ ask Wil Wheaton?
Come on, mates! Despite tha’ whiny, annoyin’ traits o’ his character, who hasn’t wanted ta’ be him- a young know-it-all on tha’ Enterprize? “Kirk, try ta’ speak in a normal cadence. Gotta potty now.”
Actors have their own views, however silly, and Wil-boy may be able ta’ speak o’ secrets from tha’ set o’ old TNG… stand by me wit’ yer flubber , Wil… tell me this boy wonder., what was A.R. like? (A.R. akin ta’ A.D.) A.R.- After Roddenberry’s passin’ and tha’ childlike but lovely, hopeful ta’ a fault but bonny vision o’ tha’ lovely future, did yer character get discarded cuz Berman wanted more boobies? How do ye’ handle bein’ such a despised (outta envy from us wankers) character in this cult phenom?
Geez… tha’ sea do funny things ta’ a man… next I’ll “ask” George Clooney how his aunt affected his life… canna sing but I can fling… some folks are only here fur fun… nothin’ wrong wit’ that…
Arrrrrrr…
Oh, ta’ be clear here… actors are largely wankers…
Fur Wil, like Nimoy did after his “I Am Not Spock”, ye’ have ta’ embrace and not deface that which brought ye’ ta’ fame…
I’m proud o’me scurvy fur makin’ me tha’ better man I be today…
Arrrrrrrr….
I do not recall where or when I heard or read this statement from JJ but it was him stating that the best things about Enterprise was it showed how things came to be.
And I have a feeling that this will be what he brings up in the Movie, or at least how he thinks thing happened in the Trek Universe.
If we ever get over trying to make Genetic Perfection, My GOD can be more evil than your GOD (Terrorism) and Energy is best from Dinosaur Soup (Oil), I can not wait until we move onto Subatomics, learn hot to behave the way we want, and figure out how to Warp space into smaller distances to break the speed of Light the only way Einstein said it was possible we may one day end up in the Better Universe of The Great Bird of the Galaxy of his dreams.
The Trek Universe is far better than the way we are going now, a less free world that is dependent on taking what others earn and giving it to fat ass Small brained 2 + 2 = 5 emotions over logic people whom think everyone has the right to everyone stuff because they live and do not need to earn it because they were granted life.
As Darwin said those that depend on other perish, but those that provide for themselfs survive and evolve. When we get from 5% provide to 95% provide then the Trek Universe will arrive.
WARNING- BND becomes boring as he addresses Spockish. Skip this post unless you think you can find Spock’s Brain and have fun. BND has become a “spammer” and thus enjoys en’flagre delicto with swine.
So, is Trek exepcted ta’ be more than a fanboy ejaculate or is it really supoosed ta’ be a vision o’ tha’ bonny future? – wherein race, religion, and politics subside ta’ make tha’ frakkin’ universe a good place?
Again, Trek speaks o’ struggle, denial o’ an easy Utopia (Kirk dunna want illusion but a real and lovely hope)….
Soooooo… are Trek fans able ta’ take tha’ reins and make tomorry-ow a better place? Will JJ just think blockbuster wit’out substance? Or is struggle all we be aboot? I know me cell phone mates wanna me ta’ text them… how come I can can only text tha’ F and C and K keys? Me piggish hands me too large fur me ta’ change… but ye can!
Tha’ new Trek film will be bonny. If JJ takes tha’ case o’ Trek ta’ make a better world thru’ sacrifice and honour, then will be all tha’ more bonnier.
As glad as I am wit’ me Thai hookers who, by the by, charge too much quatlooo… Tomorrow be a problem only we can solve, mateys…
Arrrrrrrrr….
I have to stick up for generations, I liked it , the only thing i ddnt like about it was the saucer crash when it started hitting trees and seemed to have wheels as it plowed endlessley through the landscape…and at the time, everyone involved with the film (including shatner) believed that kirk’s death was noble. and I agreed.
I fell asleep during insurrection.
I fell asleep during the Vger flyover in star trek 1
I watched star trek 5 in an almost deserted theater
Tom hardy and patrick stewart dont look alike at all and everyone knows it!
…and that it mainly what killed nemesis.
I do enjoy wil’s opinions.
A little story from back in the day…
When TMP came out, me and my friends in the geek and nerd filled FANTASY AND SCIENCE FICTION CLUB at Los Gatos High stood in line all day at the Century theaters in San Jose. We just knew it would be an awesome movie and it almost was.
Sadly, we left …almost all of us bitching about how slow it was.
But then one of my friends said “Star Wars was better…”
Big mistake for him.
… the rest of us poked and teased him and otherwise gave him a hard time because we all liked an “okay” Trek movie better than almost anything else. He didn’t “get it”…
The point was that Trek was ALIVE AGAIN! …and despite the flaws, it was new Trek and we all knew that there would be more…
…as it is again now.
I just hope we get a more than an “okay” movie. Actually, I don’t fear the worst anymore…
I know we will be satisfied because Roberto, JJ, etc. have me excited once again!
…and so again…
STAR TREK LIVES!
…and a tip ‘o the cigar to Bob Wilkins!
Is it me or is Wil still trying to establish true credibility? I know he has the brilliant TNG image to overcome like many child actors but his approach is still a bit off (like piloting a shuttlecraft effectively when a newbie).
I think Wil Wheaton is really harsh with the movies, none of the Star Trek movies are horrible. The majority of them are excellent with only a few duds. The duds being The Final Frontier and Nemesis, however I still enjoy watching The Final Frontier and Nemesis as they still have great moments in them.
The best ones being Wrath of Khan and First Contact. I think Wil is wrong about the movies. As I said even the lesser ones are enjoyable.
I always love going to see my fav characters on the big screen.
However, he is right about his comments about JJ Abrams. Its scary when JJ uses phrases like ‘fans will be servd but we making this for fans of movies and people who don’t like scifi’ or ‘this will be different than the star trek you know’ phrases like this make me wonder “What the hell is he doing to Star Trek?” is he screwing with the fans to get the mainstream audience, is he changing the look of everything or is he commenting on SFX never before seen? I am excited by a fresh approach but I dont want this film to be alien from what we love.
I feel that The Voyage home was probably more mainstream than Wrath of Khan. A friend of mine who doesn’t like Star Trek liked TVH. I love WOK of course. First Contact, my personal fav, is the only Trek movie that I can recall ever getting “two thumbs up” from critics which is why I would put it in the mainstream category.
#101. I think Wil is on the money with his assessments. He may be trying to milk his Trek connections a bit but I think he speaks like a level-headed reasonable fan.
I dont think this movie will take the place of Wrath of Khan as the best Trek movie.
I am pleased that Paramount is supportive and has given the movie a budget that a Trek movie deserves but it seems a bit diserespectful they have more faith in these new actors than they ever did with the original actors when they did the movies.
I think Wil is just a bit pissed that he was written off TNG and wasnt in any of the movies… except for like 2 minutes in a wedding scene…
Dont get me wrong, I loved the way his character was going on TNG, but I completely disagree with his assessments of anything.
I think that Wil Wheaton gives an honest assessment of the what’s happened and what is happening to Star Trek.
Some people love the franchise so much that they have a hard time finding any faults with it, even when they are valid.
Whether or not Wil Wheaton gives a “good” review of the new film, I can be pretty sure that it will be an “honest” review.
I honestly think that Star trek should not be reinvented. There are alot of stories to be told. Let’s start with a different ship from the TOS era and a different crew, tell their story but keep it in that era. If they want to reinvent it, start over with another set of players. Now that to me would be interresting.
105 – Paramount, in the past, has always wanted a lot of control over their Cash Cow (Star Trek).
Since Enterprise, and Nemesis, they probably realized that they need to let someone else take creative control and break the mold a little.
The faith they have is probably more in JJ, and the cast by extention.
Paramount is basically giving control to Bad Robot and JJ, rather than doing things themselves.
JJ Abrams carries a LOT more weight than other directors or producers involved with Star Trek in the past.
This is the first time since Star Trek: The Motion Picture that an A-List director has taken control of the franchise, and a LOT has changed since 1978-79.
108 – They tried that twice. Voyager was okay, Enterprise wasn’t so good (though there are things I like about it).
Paramount basically had given up on Trek until Orci, Kurtzman, Lindelhoff and Abrams came together with a fresh approach.
#109—I think ENT was good “based upon Star Trek” entertainment.
Unfortunately, by the time of its debut, Berman Trek had been running for 15 years or so. Alot of TNG-era fans could not embrace something so different with that “based upon Star Trek” description attached to it, and newer and younger audiences had too many preconceived notions about Trek to give it a chance. Beyond that, it suffered from limited access on the UPN (I did not see it until it was released on DVD). When I did see it, I rather enjoyed it, and don’t see what people find so wrong with it. Here we finally had a Star Trek spinoff series with the same kind of frontier/unknown feeling of the original series, something that only DS9 (sometimes) had even come close to producing. ENT was handicapped from the beginning by the failure of VOY to capture the hearts of Trek fans (Berman burnout), closed-mindedness on the part of traditional Trek spinoff fans, the lackluster results of the TNG movie series, as well as its limited availability. I found it to be the best Trek since TOS…but that’s just my opinion.
As for your response to #105, I agree wholeheartedly. Well said.
109:
I’m not sure JJ Abrams in an “A-list director.” MI3 wouldn’t make him one. Martin Scorsese, Ridley Scott, Steven Spielberg, etc. are “A-list.”
However, the man is mighty creative, and hopefully can pull it off, and he is taking over the franchise.
I think Wil Wheaton has a good point regarding the “post Phantom Menace” world, and how multi-decade franchises can be destroyed for long time fans for all the wrong reasons. The problem is, the original SW trilogy made a mint (US $2.5 billion worldwide gross), so the studio was satisfied. IJ4 is already over $730m worldwide. All piles of crap.
The message from Mr. Wheaton is a good one. Crap sells, and JJ could become a hero if he poops out a big-budget flick with lots of explosions and action scenes, and no substance, and then it becomes a Six-Flags attraction, etc. And yes, the PR machine has been all-too smiley for STXI.
However, this time, I’m of the impression that the fans are being listened to, and that the writers are personally interested in creating something that they would love as fans of the show. I’ll wait and see.
And I think some here should cut WW some slack.
Closettrekker:
As with you, I watched ENT primarily on disc, and it has started to grow on me. I wish they had handled the temporal war with a well-defined arc.
What happened was, to “avoid confusion,” Voyager goes to the Delta Quadrant, and ENT occurs prior to TOS to wipe the slate clean after TNG and DS9. Just like Joey left his “Friends” in NYC for California. Or who remembers “AfterMASH”? It’s a trap which probably makes sense to corporate green-lighting types, but ends up alienating many loyal viewers.
Also, these are unproven ensembles who usually need a season to get into a groove, but with an ever expanding choice of viewing since the late ’80’s, they don’t get the chance.
AJ#111- I refuse to cut any slack – my phaser is loaded and aimed, but like Khan, I…Just…Keep…Missing…The…Target…
P.S. See my post about W on the Chat thread, my love.
#112—Agreed. I think that I was able to enjoy it better than most because I never really was a fan of the other spinoffs. I was always strictly a TOS-era guy, so I had a much fresher fan approach to ENT. I gave each spinoff series a fair chance, and ENT is the only one I can rewatch with any regularity. Everyone has their favorites and lists, but mine are as follows:
1.TOS
2.ENT
3.DS9
4.TNG
5.VOY
1.TWOK
2.TMP
3.TUC
4.TVH
5.TSFS
6.FC
7.TFF
8.Take your pick of TNG movie bombs
So what exactly did Will say that is so controversial, anyway? He was spot on – on every point. I just may have to re-assess how I felt about ‘Mr.Crusher’.
Only thing I didn’t agree with too much is how he felt about Phantom Menace.
I liked it. I would’ve preferred a couple of things were done differently here and there (cough*jar jar*) but overall, it was an enjoyable film.
My pick for fan favorite would include TMP near the top if not the first choice. Directors Cut of course. TFF always gets the lowest vote but if you search around the net for a certain fan edit (can’t remember who did it at the moment) it becomes a pretty damn good film.
no.108
‘I honestly think that Star trek should not be reinvented. There are alot of stories to be told. Let’s start with a different ship from the TOS era and a different crew, tell their story but keep it in that era. If they want to reinvent it, start over with another set of players. Now that to me would be interresting.’
Interesting, I’ve often asked myself the question – why do all these adventures and events seem to only happen to one crew on one ship? Surely there are other ships that have similiar adventures. It would work given the right ensemble cast, the right script, the right producer/director, the right budget but it would be one tremendous gamble and the studio would most probably not do it based on that risk assessment.
Fan wise, if you wanted to get a glimpse or a taste of that, one only has to look at fan produced Starship Exeter and Farragut productions.
1.- ds-9
2.-tng
3.-voy
4.-ent
5.-tos
1 first contact
2 generations
3 st 4
4 st 5…………….
Personally i think that the movies from the tos era are very ..old at this time. ALIEN..PREDATOR…STAR WARS..are that kind of movie watchable even now without a new ‘make-up’…the only trek movie from that kind is..GENERATIONS..
#117—Old? That depends on your own point of view, I guess…I like old movies…Patton, The Godfather, Raging Bull, Jaws, The Caine Mutiny, Superman:The Movie…Timeless… I’ll take an “old” movie with interesting characters and storylines over a “new” one with bland characters and bland storylines anyday. But that’s just me.
You can even get away with a mediocre storyline (like TSFS and TVH) if you are featuring iconic characters like Kirk, Spock, Bones, and Scotty. In 6 feature films, there was only really one misfire (TFF)…
The TNG movies only came close once (FC), and even then it played out like a sci-fi channel original…IMO.
On a loosely tied topic, I believe I have a “Conspiracy Theory” re: Paramount, Star Trek and Comic-Con 2008.
As many know, there is a leaked Thursday schedule, and those who have been there before know that Hall H is the place where the Studios have their BIG announcements, usually on Thursday.
Last year, Hall H on Thursday morning was where Zachary Quinto and Leonard Nimoy were officially revealed as the 2 spocks for the new movie.
After looking at the Leaked, and likely-to-change Thursday schedule, I noticed that there was nothing in Hall H on Thursday Morning.
Combined with the Comic-Con/Star Trek banners plastered around the Convention Center and parts of San Diego, it is possible that Paramount have that space for the morning, and we may be in for a big surprise of some kind on Thursday Morning, in Hall H.
It’s a very long shot, but as Spock says, “There are always… possibilities.”
Food for thought … ;-)
#117, #118. Please, please, PLEASE let me interrupt this discussion with a reality check.
Brothas, if you’re calling the original series movies “old” — and “The Godfather”? “Superman?” OLD? — you all have to sit down and watch some REALLY old movies.
See Fritz Lang’s “Metropolis” — a silent movie from 1927, for crying out loud — and understand that sci-fi is MORE THAN THE EFFECTS. That one movie alone spawned more ideas and visual cues (the evil femme-bot, for one) than any science fiction film in the 81 years since. And it’s black-and-white. And almost wordless. And completely outdated in its visual effects. Yet it endures.
Sci-fi is a conceptual, profound, human genre that transcends obsolete moviemaking technologies. You don’t think the CG’d movies we’re seeing today won’t look dated in 20 years? Please. We’ll all be watching “Iron Man” (or something) and thinking, “Ew, that looks so tacky. I can’t believe how crappy the effects were then.”
What will lift a movie beyond its effects and carry it through the years is a foundation of character, plot and the spirit of inquisitiveness that questions and informs our understanding of what it means to be human. THIS is science fiction. It’s what gave the original series its staying power despite the salt-shaker props and styrofoam boulders. My hope is Abrams & Orci & Co. will release a film that lasts through the decades for just those reasons.
So, no, guys. The old Trek movies aren’t truly “old.” But even if they are, why should we care?
Thanks for hearing me out.
#129—Of course there are movies alot older than the ones I listed, but given that the youngster felt that the TOS-era movies were “old”, I simply rattled off some of my favorite films which are even older (with the exception of Raging Bull, which debuted a year after TMP) than the original Star Trek films. I think you missed the point of my post, which was that when the film came out makes no difference at all.
IMO, 5 of the 6 original films were anywhere from decent to great, and only one of them was bad.
Abrams has a potential lynching coming up. ‘Bad enough he has the unenviable task of having had to recast the original characters – of which I suspect only Quinto’s Spock will be remotely accepted because we already know he looks it and, after all, how many different ways can you play a vulcan? Anyway, he’s also NOT an original Trekker – more a Star Wars fan, so he’s likely going to be accused of trying to give Trek a Star Wars image when they never had the same purposes. Trek was pure futuristic sci-fi, Wars was more myth and fantasy. Also, he’s got a cast made up of mostly relative-unknowns and, of the ones in the key roles, enough, including Chris Pine as Kirk, are younger than I am, and I was born in 1979. Don’t even mention the fact that if you stayed true to canon and the ages of the characters, there’s no way you could fit characters like Chekhov and Uhura in with either Kirk OR Pike before the timeline of the original series as he is rumored to be doing.
Admittedly, I’m not the biggest Wheaton fan, nor am I a fan of some of the things he’s said about Trek in the past, but I have to agree – this movie will NOT get a fair shake, either way, and the fact that it’s even being done the way it is is something I still can’t believe. While the teaser trailer was promising earlier in the year, it didn’t really reveal anything about the movie itself, which won’t even be released on the date represented in the trailer. The whole concept feels like a $200 million dollar Saturday Night Live skit from, like, the seventies with Leonard Nimoy hosting and playing himself in his most famous role.
As for the other Trek movies, I think they did okay until after The Voyage Home, then they got lazy. Shatner’s support on the fifth film was miserable – his producers didn’t want to do it, nobody REALLY wanted him directing but they were contractually obligated to let him, and either the budget or the union situation stuck him with some unknown and definitely way, way below-par visual fx shop. I’ve always liked UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, but there’s undiscovered potential in that movie that I think the writers know / knew (Meyers’ co-writer died recently, I think) about but couldn’t exploit. If you listen to the DVD commentary and read the original script, you’ll see it. The Motion Picture gets a bad rap because of its pacing and poor narrative concept, but otherwise, it’s a good translation to the scope of cinema and fairly true to Roddenberry’s vision, or at least the euphemistic best-case-scenario version of it. The budgets after Khan, which is probably the best because it had a crew overhaul behind it and a lot more thought put into it, though higher, were not enough except on Voyage Home to make up for uncharacteristically and often poor, jokey writing, thin plots and stale, overused effects shots. Per the Next Generation films, they all should have been grittier – except for Nemesis, which tried, but way too late and with a bad story. I think Generations actually got the VISUAL translation of the show to cinema beautifully but, as happens often in Trek, had a story that suffered from certain studio and fan expectations forced up on it.
I think the movies Wheaton refers to are:
MAINSTREAM
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Star Trek: First Contact
TREKKERS
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country
(BOTH MEYERS FILMS)
The series were run into the ground because everyone on them started working in a vacuum – virtually know significant “new blood” on any of the shows from, like, 1992 until 2004, when they hired Manny Cotto to exec-produce the fourth season of ENTERPRISE. By then, though, it was too late – damage was done. Trek’s biggest weakness is its conceit that it can survive on “good ideas,” but those ideas, if not executed well, won’t matter to an audience that doesn’t have anything to hook them, make them and keep them interested in the vehicle carrying those ideas. My only real hope for the new movie coming out in May is that Abrams, as a filmmaker and a film fan, seems so far removed from not just previous Trek crew but the franchise itself that he could be the Nicholas Meyer of the 21st century, saving it by essentially disrespecting it and bending the rules.
I read Wil every week on his blog and usually I can identify with his fanboy/gamer opinions. I think he’s about right on the Trek movie front. I think he’s wrong on The Phantom Menace.
No I’m not saying TPM is a great film. I’m saying take off the rose colored glasses and have an objective look at the original Star Wars films. The acting and dialog was not that great at times. Plot holes abound (How does the Millenium Falcon get from Hoth to Bespin with a busted Hyperdrive?) and there are plenty of kiddyfied moments (ewoks).
Looking back on TPM with the perspective of 10 years past, I think its as good as any film in the franchise. Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor are better actors than anybody from the original films (Except Alec Guiness of course) and Jake Lloyd is miles better than Hayden Christensen as young Anakin.
Could it have been better (without so much Jar Jar)? Sure.
A kick in the balls? Only if you were an SW fans with unrealistic expectations.
123:
Wow, Captain. I do not know how old you are, but lots of the disappointed older fans found their dreams deflated after TPM.
Liam Neeson sucked all the passion out of the Jedi. He was wooden and useless next to Ewan MacGregor, who tried his best to spit out the poor dialogue. In fact, all the Jedi were passionless prozac-laden bores.
Jake Lloyd was simply a videogame posterchild, and he was was hardly able to show the emotional range required for his role. But he was blonde-haired, blue-eyed and cute. I don’t think Darth Vader was totally destroyed for us long-timers at the end of TPM, but “Clones” did it for me.
Its a bit harsh to describe some of the ‘older’ movies as unwatchable. For my money the only one that is unwatchable is the most recent one- ironically the only one that Wheaton (however briefly) appears in. Irony or what.
125:
Buzz: Wheaton’s performance as a party guest in Nemesis has no bearing on th crapiness of Nemesis.
Unwatchable is neither of the movies. I even watch Nemesis from time to time (and that is really the worst of them all).
My list:
1.) First Contact
2.) The Wrath of Kahn
3.) The Undiscovered Country
4.) The Voyage Home
5.) The Search for Spock
6.) Insurrection
7.) Generations
8.) The Final Frontier
9.) The Motion Picture
10.) Nemesis
The most of the TOS movies are great. TWOK is superior entertainment (even if the movie is 26 years old by now). TUC is a real polit thriller and TVH is funny, but the humor is changing from decade to decade (for me). I like the dialogs from the crew more than the visual humor. The story from TSFS is a bit silly, but the most parts are excellent. In no other movie you get to see the huge spacedock and the feeling how big and powerfull starfleet really is. TMP is boring, even after the 101st time. It don’t get better. TFF is silly, crazy, with lame SFX, but – again- the dialogs of the crew are superb and really funny (that’s why it’s better than TMP and NEM).
FC is the only really successfull TNG movie and as this far, the best of all Star Trek movies. It combines the very best elements of Star Trek in around 115 minutes and has a great visual conception and this far the best SFX of all Star Trek movies. But GEN and INS are two entire different things. The story from GEN is desastrous. The Nexus is as lame as it is stuipid. The Enterprise-B sequenzes are far too short and Harriman had his worst day. The destruction of the Enterprise-D is laughable (not the saucer-crash but the space battle). The Duras-sisters are a waste. And the final of als desasters: They killed Kirk. Well, one day the Captain of all Captains have to die. When not in battle, then in his bed ’cause of very old age (150 or so). Killing him in a huge battle, saving the entire universe… Okay, everyone could life with that I gues. But killing him, because he’s falling from a bridge? Man, that’s xxxxx! But I like the ligting and the look of that movie and, beside of all that mistakes, it is entertaining and for the most parts not boring. INS suffers from the same problem as GEN and all other TNG movies: It’s the team behind the cameras: TV producers, TV writers, TV directors and at last a lousy budget in comparsion to other potential blockbusters. INS is boring, the humor don’t suit the movie’s theme and the action sequenzes are… well… what action sequenzes? I think INS would have played out well as a season’s finale of the TV-show, but it’s not really a thing you would like to see on the big screen. That makes one think Berman & Co just had luck with FC.
I could say enough about Nemesis to fill a book. But for general: I don’t like it’s greenish look, the SFX look to much like CGi, Shinzon is the most boring and lame enemy ever in Trek and the director did everything but a decent job. In short: It’s a DESASTER. But I like it more when I saw it on DVD…
So, I hope that J.J.’s Star Trek will capture the dimension a movie need when it runs on the big screen. I hope the story is intelligent, the plot twists are clever and the actors are not made from wood. Let’s hope for May 09.
FTI, The Comic-Con web site has the OFFICIAL Thursday schedule up.
Mr. Pascale, are you going to be present at Comic-Con this year?
If so, I hope you’re on one of the panels.
Also, I wonder if CBS is doing anything for Star Trek: Remastered?
Or perhaps, if there is a Debriefing on the project of some kind?
#122–Anyway, he’s also NOT an original Trekker – more a Star Wars fan, so he’s likely going to be accused of trying to give Trek a Star Wars image when they never had the same purposes-”
Robert Wise wasn’t an “original Trekker”, and neither was Nick Meyer. As far as Trek goes, JJ is a TWOK fan, and that’s fine with me. It’s more of a Trek background than Meyer or Wise had prior to directing a Star Trek feature film. As for Trek credibility, it’s probably more important that the writers have it than Abrams, and Orci and Kurtzman have that credible fan background. If the movie flops, it won’t be because of that.
And although I completely agree that SW and ST are completely different animals, what exactly does the term “Star Wars image” mean to you? Don’t get me wrong…I’m a Star Trek fan first and foremost…but a little bit of mainstream appeal will not, in itself, hurt Star Trek. Better action scenes? Groundbreaking special effects? If JJ adds a touch of that, as expected, it won’t make OR break the film. It still has to be a good tale, and the director still has to get a believable performance out of the cast and set a good storytelling tempo.
It really won’t matter much to the long term future of the ST franchise if a few old canonite fogies get upset because the Enterprise bridge has a different color on the hand railing…What matters most is that a new and younger audience (like my kids) gives the iconic characters of classic Trek a good look. That is the demographic that will make Paramount’s investment a successful one— or a failure.
So, (within reason, of course) canon be damned!
Closettrekker, I agree with your comments, but since they have to give the bridge railings a colour ANWAY, why CAN’T it be red?
130 – There are railings?
They might not make them Red if they are not there ;-)
Actually, I wonder what color they were in The Cage?
The bold reds and blues were not present in The Cage the way they were in Where No Man Has Gone Before and later…
Closettrekker, good points all.
Part of the fun, even before the movie comes out, is in the speculation.
I don’t know about everyone else, but I’m having a blast guessing, from everything we see and hear from the Supreme Court and the Cast/Crew, what things will be like in this movie.
What will be the same? What will be different? What kind of homages to the Original Series might we get? How will the new actors portray our beloved icons? How will our favourite Constitution Class Heavy Cruiser look?
In defense of Wil Wheaton, I have to say that I was just as skepticle as everyone else at the time. He really was the oddball n the bridge, never wearing a uniform, never went to Starfleet Acadamy, no real training whatsoever, and yet there he was, not only flying the ship week after week, but actually saving it just as often as not! Sheesh!!!
While I have to admit a certain amount of jelousy and envy at the time, since I was not fling the ship and he was, I chalked it up to the producers at the time trying to draw in a younger crowd, and I could try to suspend my disbelief by trying to convince myself that he was in some kind of ROTC program or something.
However, after having gone to a convention where I had a free moment to spare, and he was giving a talk at the time, I decided to give him a moment of my time… and boy was I surprised at how well he spoke and presented himself!
Not only was this kid a grownup now, but he was very well articulated, and he addressed some of the issues that he had to face at such a young age, including the whole “kill Wesley” campaign, and his relationships, or lack there of, with other cast members, both past and present.
Bottom line… he did the best he could with what was given to him at the time. It certainly wasn’t his fault he was given the hand that was dealt to him, yet he made the best of it! He is a huge fan of sci-fi in general, and Star Trek in particular, and I have to say that he impressed me more than I can say, and made a believer out of me that day, and I have been a fan ever since! I wish he’d have been given a better role, and a better set of circumstances to deal with, and things might have been better for him and Wesley, but they are what they are, and yet he he made a fan out of me.
I’d love to have a chance to see him again someday! Quite a talented young man!
Oh, that’s rich, that Phantom Menace comment.
Sure, it was a bit of a kick in the nuts to long time Star Wars fans. However, how can HE say that????
He was involved in the re-boot of the Star Trek franchise, TNG. THAT show (especially seaons 1-3) were a HUGE disappointment to a lot of Trek fans at the time. I remember walking away from “Farpoint” thinking, “what have they done?!?!?”. It was, to me, a much bigger disappointment than Phantom Menace.
Now I see TNG and Episodes I-III as comfortable parts of the whole franchise. Not the best parts mind you, but important ones. But the first 3 seasons of TNG are still (largely) unwatchable. That’s not all Wil Wheaton’s fault…..but it’s pretty ironic that he’s casting stones at other franchises.
It would be like Ahmed Best (aka Jar Jar Binks) coming out and saying JJ Abrams killed his beloved Star Trek!
Jar Jar was the thing people hated about Ep.1 and Wesley is the thing people hated about TNG.
#133—-”He was involved in the re-boot of the Star Trek franchise, TNG. THAT show (especially seaons 1-3) were a HUGE disappointment to a lot of Trek fans at the time. I remember walking away from “Farpoint” thinking, “what have they done?!?!?”. It was, to me, a much bigger disappointment than Phantom Menace.”
I agree completely. I was so excited at the prospect of new Star Trek at the time, and ended up extremely disappointed. It took awhile after “Farpoint” to get me to watch again, but it never became anything more to me than just ok. The only episode of TNG now that I will go out of my way to watch is “Yesterday’s Enterprise”. The rest of it never grabbed me, and I never again got my expectations that high for “new Star Trek”.
While I actually found ENT to be very entertaining (especially the “shout outs” to TOS), and admired the last couple of seasons of DS9, it’s still not really Star Trek to me without Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Scotty…
Will Wheaton is entitled to his opinions, but I’m not obligated to agree with them. Aside from the abyssmal STV, I’m not sure what he has a problem with in the original Star Trek films.