Kurtzman Answers The Question – What Is Up With Nero’s Ear? | TrekMovie.com
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Kurtzman Answers The Question – What Is Up With Nero’s Ear? July 23, 2008

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Orci/Kurtzman,Spoilers,Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback

Last week in our first article about the new Star Trek posters which revealed characters for the first time, TrekMovie.com asked "what is up with Nero’s (Eric Bana’s) ears?" Today our friends at UGO point us to a new interview with Star Trek co-writer and exec producer Alex Kurtzman, where they ask him that question. [SPOILERS]

From the UGO article:

We asked Alex Kurtzman what was up with Nero’s ears!  If you’ve seen the recently released Star Trek poster, you’ve seen Eric Bana, who is allegedly playing a Romulan, with what looks like war paint or a tattoo on his face and NO POINTY EARS.  What kind of a Romulan doesn’t have pointy ears?  “Nero isn’t necessarily a Romulan,” Kurtzman said, but wouldn’t give anything further than that.  He simply smiled and said, “It’s all part of the plot.” 

More from Kurtzman at UGO.

Not Romulan?
TrekMovie (and other sites) have reported that the film’s villains are Romulans. For our part, this has been confirmed by multiple sources who worked on the film, including some who played Romulans. It isn’t clear if this is a ‘non denial denial’ from Kurtzman, a head fake, or possibly revealing that maybe there is something different about Nero. I hate to bring it up as a precedent, but Shinzon (Tom Hardy) was human (or a human clone) and leader of the Romulans and Remans in Star Trek Nemesis. It all goes into that big thing that is the mystery of this movie, which is exactly how Kurtzman, Abrams, Orci, Lindelof and Burk like it.


Eric Bana as Star Trek’s Nero…
still wondering what is up with that ear

 

 

Comments

1. Khadka - July 23, 2008

I’m betting Nero is a defector giving the Romulan’s info.

2. Harry - July 23, 2008

Nero is FutureGuy!

3. Ensign Ricky - July 23, 2008

Maybe he’s the reincarnation of a certain famous artist who cut off his ear? Ehhhh…..maybe not :-)

4. Doc - July 23, 2008

He’s obviously a romulan who wants to distance himself from his vulcan cousins!

5. Danya Romulus - July 23, 2008

It’s pretty clear from the poster that whether he had a pointy ear to begin with or not, someone went Tyson on it. So I don’t think Kurtzman’s answer really explains much.

6. Bobby - July 23, 2008

Let me guess…Mr Blonde got really upset and chopped off only the top part. “Hello…can you hear me?”

7. SPOCKBOY - July 23, 2008

Nero is definitely alien, check out the top of the bridge of his nose how it connects to his newly inflated brow.
Looks great!

8. SPOCKBOY - July 23, 2008

Oh, I almost forgot….
SHOW US THE ENTERPRISE!!!!!!!!!!

thankyou.

:)

9. pinky - July 23, 2008

hmmm… when I was a little boy, I used to hear lots of stories about elves that were slaves getting their “prick ears” melted down as a form of punishment and humiliation. Could be that. Or, it could just be Nero wanting to abandon his roots?

10. GO - July 23, 2008

If only his name wasn’t Nero… I would be willing to bet that’s Abram’s new look for the Klingons!

And yes. Fer cryin’ outloud… send the Enterprise out for a spin around the neighborhood already!

11. Ruger - July 23, 2008

I’m betting he’s a rogue Vulcan. Look at the eyebrow curving up; very vulcan/romulan.

12. pinky - July 23, 2008

and by “when I was a little boy” I mean back in the day when I played a lot of Dungeons and Dragons… :)

13. J_schinderlin56 - July 23, 2008

When he was younger he got his head caught in a mechanical…..
Rice Picker. Fortunately there was a very good plastic Surgan who lived nearby.

14. CaptainRickover - July 23, 2008

Perhaps he is a half Romulan/Human. Or he is a Klingon. Or he is a Human working for the Romulans. Or he is a member of an entire new species, enslaved by the Romulans (like the Remans).

15. Harry Ballz - July 23, 2008

If it ends up that he IS Romulan and they simply have his ears chewed off so he can interact with the younger Enterprise crew without screwing up continuity of Balance Of Terror, that is pretty CORNY and AMATEURISH writing!

As if a younger Spock, with his razor-sharp telepathic skills, wouldn’t “twig” to recognizing someone with Vulcan heritage!

God, I’m such a geek!

16. JWM - July 23, 2008

Ear looks mangled. Brow is all Bana IMO – that looks just like lighting accentuating the ridge.

17. montreal paul - July 23, 2008

I read on imdb full credit list of this movie that there are Klingons in it as well.. lists Klingon prison guards and prisoners.

Maybe Nero is Klingon??

18. I'm Dead Jim! - July 23, 2008

One thing’s for sure… HE’S PISSED!!!!!

19. OneBuckFilms - July 23, 2008

17 – IMDB is not the most accurate source.

20. DFG - July 23, 2008

Or maybe Nero has been surgically altered like human.

21. Captain Hackett - July 23, 2008

Hmm… very interesting!

BTW, last night I saw the Terminator 4 (T4) trailer before the feature presentation of the Dark Knight. What has bothered me is how come we do not have the new Star Trek trailer available as the T4 is BEING FILMED!

22. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

I first thought the ear to be a battle injury, and perhaps that is still true and Kurtzman is just being a bit cagey in his answer…You know they have got to be having fun with this…

23. Charles Trotter - July 23, 2008

Bushy eyebrows, wide nose bridge… definitely not human. Doesn’t rule out the possibility of a defector, though; there are more than just humans in the Federation. :)

But he’s most likely a Romulan and Kurtzman is just playing coy. What other species could have a member with the name “Nero”? :-P

Oh, wait, we had a Nero didn’t we? Hmm…..

24. montreal paul - July 23, 2008

19 – it may not be the most accurate source.. but it is something to consider.

Anthony, any thoughts on this?

25. Brian - July 23, 2008

Nero… couldn’t they come up with a less… “human”… name? I mean really, its bad enough that Romulus and Remus are straight out of Roman lore, but c’mon. Nero, the crazy Roman Emperor?? Yeesh.

26. CmdrR - July 23, 2008

13 – you beat me to it.

or…

Nero is Chakotay’s great-grandpappy.

or…

Nero likes to make happy, fuzzy, warm YouTube videos with his former pet lion.

or…

We’ll all find out in 288 days. grrr.

27. The Underpants Monster - July 23, 2008

Someone said, “Friends, Romulans, countrymen, lend me your ears,” and he took it literally. I wonder if they’re ear-replaceable.

28. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

#27—badumbum!

29. Izbot - July 23, 2008

Captain Archer isn’t in the movie?! This is a disaster!!

30. The Underpants Monster - July 23, 2008

Yeah, it was kind of lobe-brow humor.

31. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

#30—You’re on fire!

32. Ensign Ro- (short for Roland) - July 23, 2008

Regarding the name “Nero”….yes, it is a name any literate human is familiar with. However, Trek has always greatly relied on human history, i.e., ther Roman Empire, Shakespearean literature, etc. for sources of information and inspiration. If one can accept hundreds of humanoid cultures in the Trek realm, than a simple 4-letter name should be no problem. A little suspension of disbelief please…after all, it IS science fiction.

Ragardless, Nero appears to be an ominous villian…based on this one pic. And who knows…his other ear may be intact. lol

33. richpit - July 23, 2008

Tom Hardy, not “Handy”. Just sayin’.

34. British Naval Dude - July 23, 2008

As I find meself of late riddled wit’ apathy towards tha’ new film, I also find meself obssessed wit’ anatomy…

So, since guessin’ Nero be dis or Nero be dat, which can be fun, I’m just gunna say what Nero couldn’t be…

Nero Is Not:

A clone enginneered from Kirk’s dna when Rommies scavenged his rock-grave

Just a Rommie gent who had some ear accident… like when I use tha’ clawin’ cat’s tail ta’ clean out me hearin’ tunnels… screw Balance of Terror then.,.

Just some gent tha’ Rommies hired, gave a ship to, and say- “Hey, we dunna wanna re-start tha’ Romulan War which just ended, but you, Nero of undefined species, go and kill some captains fur us ta’ weaken them Fed blokes. Hey- here’s some future crap fur ye’ ta’ use that TOS-era Valtrex gave us ta’ change Rommie history.”

A dogcatcher.

The re-set button pusher.

That Aussie actor who owes me a $1,500 in hospital bills cuz o’ when he slugged me fur tryin’ ta’ make ‘im angry and thusly green. Told him I thought that whilst I’ll lounge in tha’ sun, he’d make me a good Ca-Bana Boy.

And surely Nero is not… well, ye’ all finish it up fur me…

Arrrrrrr…

35. THX-1138 The Fandom Menace - July 23, 2008

Maybe Nero was just fiddlin’ around with his combination razor/home tattoo kit and roamin’ around the house when he had an accident and cut off the tip of his ear. He bought it from that Scandinavian sounding grooming implement company. He is upset and about to yell:

BBRRRRRAAAUUUUNNNNNNN!!

36. Beam Me Up - July 23, 2008

I bet He’s the Mirror Spock!

37. mojonaut - July 23, 2008

Bana, being Australian, has obviously been playing tight-head prop-forward for the New South Wales Waratahs.

38. Ali - July 23, 2008

Kirk-Romulan hybrid, but made the old fashioned way by JTK

39. Ali - July 23, 2008

And if Kronos can become Q’OnOs, then Nero can become N’HeRo

40. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

Please…The name “Nero” is not an issue…Romulus, Remus, Praetor, the use of the term “Senator”…The list may go on… The Roman parallels within Romulan culture are traditional in Star Trek dating back to their first appearance in 1966—and that’s enough said…

I have no doubt that he is Romulan. This statement by Kurtzman is just fun and games…that’s all.

He is a Romulan who is missing part of his left ear, and I’m guessing that the “war paint” (or tatoos) represent membership in some rogue Romulan faction which does not support the fruits of Spock’s reunification efforts (actually, I not-so-secretly wish that he was the “love child” of Spock and the Romulan Commander in “The Enterprise Incident”, and his purpose is a much more personal quest for vengeance against his absentee father and the crew of the Enterprise, but alas, I have resigned myself to the conclusion that this is very unlikely).

But a “fanboy” can still dream…

41. cite - July 23, 2008

Doesn’t he look a little too much like Darth Maul??

42. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

#41—Not to me, he doesn’t.

43. Dom - July 23, 2008

He’s Spock’s son by a Romulan woman! ;)

44. Harry Ballz - July 23, 2008

#35 BBRRRRRAAAUUUUNNNNN!!

THX………you da man!!! FUNNY!

This whole argument reminds me of the old joke,

“Hey, I hear Blackbeard paid two dollars for those earrings he’s wearing!”

“Yeah? I guess that would make him a BUCK AN EAR!”

45. OneBuckFilms - July 23, 2008

A little theory as to how the Romulans could be in the film without breaking Canon:

One thing that is missed is that the film jumps to different times, and I think this is key.

Although the plot may include a time when Kirk is at the Academy, it is possible that when the Romulans are revealed as being behind the Big Scheme, or whatever the issues are, they are revealed AFTER the events of Balance of Terror.

As for Bana not necessarily being a Romulan, he might be Human, but brought into the Romulan fold (Perhaps kidnapped as a Kid and trained as a Romulan infiltration tool, vaguely similar to Shinzon but without the Clone part of his backstory).

This would enable him to face everyone in disguise, and possibly walk within the Federation without revealing his true nature.

He could also be made a conflicted character with regards to his heritage, but with a bent towards conquering all regardless.

46. Dave in RI - July 23, 2008

It could be battle a scar. Maybe his other ear is fine.

47. ster j - July 23, 2008

40. Closettrekker, this sounds like the premise of a novel:

“He is a Romulan who is missing part of his left ear, and I’m guessing that the “war paint” (or tatoos) represent membership in some rogue Romulan faction which does not support the fruits of Spock’s reunification efforts (actually, I not-so-secretly wish that he was the “love child” of Spock and the Romulan Commander in “The Enterprise Incident”, and his purpose is a much more personal quest for vengeance against his absentee father and the crew of the Enterprise, but alas, I have resigned myself to the conclusion that this is very unlikely).”

There are lots of venues for fan fiction. Write on, dude! I’ll read it.

48. Norman - July 23, 2008

I heard Corey Feldman was hired a Bana’s sunt double…

LONG LIVE HARRY MUDD!!!

49. S. John Ross - July 23, 2008

No matter what he is, he’s clearly made of 100% all-dairy, real cheese :)

50. Jeffries Tuber - July 23, 2008

after EMPIRE STRIKES BACK’s “I am your father”
after WRATH OF KHAN’s “I am your gay son”
after SEARCH FOR SPOCK’s “Klingon bastard, you killed my son”
after THE FINAL FRONTIER’s “I am your brother”
after NEMESIS’s “I am your prototype/I am you”

… it would be nice if Nero were just a brilliant bad ass, consumed with righteous indignation, like Khan.

51. The Underpants Monster - July 23, 2008

#44, you made ginger ale come out my nose.

52. Arathorn - July 23, 2008

“Nero” could be a Federation code-name for a nameless Romulan agent.

53. girl6 - July 23, 2008

Romulan ear tip lost in battle. I’ll bet his other ear is perfectly pointed.

54. Jeffries Tuber - July 23, 2008

the coolest thing, thematically, about Nero is that he forces Kirk at a young age to pay for the bad karma of his entire lifetime. perhaps this is why Kirk is such an incredible Captain–he paid his Karmic dues at the door.

55. Harry Ballz - July 23, 2008

#51

Then my plan worked!

56. British Naval Dude - July 23, 2008

hmmmm… certainly sparks a lot o’ speculation, some of it here very creative at that…

mayhaps I suggest ye’ are all overthinking this and (warning: BND get all pissy and uppity here) ye’ may be expectin’ a great deal outta tha’ gents – as successful as they have been, God bless ‘em – but nonetheless tha’ gents who penned such a simplistic film as “Transformers”…

I know, I know… they wrote many other things… like Zorro and that one wit’ Cruise as a super agent… OK, OK… I sure am no screenwriter and it not be hard ta’ be tha’ critic arrogantly denouncin’ this and claimin’ he have taste as he noshes down his Skittled-kippers wit’ Honey Spam… but… well… I’d suggest Nero just be another cookie-cutter baddie…

… as in a villian that’ carves ginger-breadmen shapes in his foes… those ain’t tatoos, mates, them be impressions o’ holiday biscuits on his dome…

Bonny idears here…

Arrrrrrrrr…

57. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

#43—See post #40.

#47—Thanks. That made me feel good. I just thought it was a story that I would like to see.

58. Drew - July 23, 2008

Hey guys…I saw this picture at ComingSoon.net’s Comic-Con preview pics, and I was wondering…is this suppose to be the new movie’s USS Enterprise?

http://www.comingsoon.net/imageGallery/Comic_Con_2008/large/hr_Comic-Con_2008_58.jpg

59. Sean - July 23, 2008

I’m too lazy to read all the comments in this thread, but assuming Nero and his buddies are Romulans going back in time to a period before when the Federation knew what Romulans looked like, couldn’t he have just sloppily mangled his ear intentionally? As a means of disguising himself? That seems the most obvious answer.

60. Blake Powers - July 23, 2008

P.S. You cannot tell that is Eric Bana.

61. Mr Lerpa - July 23, 2008

I think that he IS a Romulan who wants to take out Kirk because he’s a pain in the rear to their star empire, only he doesn’t want the Trek Canonistas to know in case they get really angry because Kirk and the Federation shouldn’t know what Romulan looks like yet (even though they’ve had a war) and write some nasty comments about continuity/Romulans on some message boards in the 21st century! Ouch!

62. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

#59—I think what seems to be forgotten is that an “alternate timeline” could mean that Nero and his comrades appearance in STXI (assuming it predates the events in “BOT”, which is not a given) could then become the first sighting of a Romulan by humans and their allies on which someone lived to report. If Romulan villains are travelling back in time to change the past, why would the evnts in “BOT” be a constant?

63. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

Can I buy a vowel?

evnts should be— events. Sorry.

64. Quatlo - July 23, 2008

Well, Rick Flair IS retiring, so wrasslin’ needs a new bad guy, Darth Nero.

65. Dom - July 23, 2008

Hey Closetrekker (57)!

Guess we crossed posts! :)

66. GaryP - July 23, 2008

haha #20 – I was always amused at how Dr. Crusher/McCoy had to ‘surgically alter’ humanoids in order to make them look Romulan or Klingon. Why didn’t the Enterprise have a costume department or prosthetic makeup department? It’s just funny that aesthetics that can be done with 20th century prosthetic and make up technology requires surgery in the 23rd/24th century.

67. cite - July 23, 2008

64 he DOES look like Darth Maul!!!! Right? Somebody please post comparison pics.

68. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

#65—I guess great Trek minds do think alike.

#66—That’s an easy one. They were surgically altered because a makeup/prosthetic can easily fall off under duress. Surgically altering them made their disguise that much more realistic and stable.

#67—I guess… if you think Darth Maul was just a bald William Wallace with bad teeth and Sith training. They both have painted faces and villainous tendencies, but that’s about the extent of their similarity to me.

On the other hand, if Nero produces a lightsaber, I’ll be furious…

69. Marshall McMellon (Inventor of the Marsh-Mellon) - July 23, 2008

#17- My thoughts exactly. Take a close look at the eybrows as well as the facial hair. And the Tattoo? Well, perhaps this is JJ’s re-thought answer to the ridgeless TOS Klingons.

70. Captain Otter - July 23, 2008

OK- I see that the implications of time travel are STILL lost on many people on this board.

The very act of Spock and Nero traveling back to a pre-TOS time CHANGES THE STINKING TIMELINE!

The events of Balance of Terror exist in a timeline where old Spock doesn’t go back in time to meet young Kirk and young Spock. That timeline is not relevant to anytime timeline where old Spock DOES go back in time to meet the young Spock and Krik.

So by definition, a time-travel narrative does not need to preserve the canon timeline. It creates a new timeline- practically a mirror universe of its own.

Physics will set you free, people. THINK!

71. Trekkie16 - July 23, 2008

Hmmm JJ Abrahms drives me crazy with LOST and all those unanswered questions and now he had taught Kurtzman how to be vague. I think JJ has a class he teaches and all those that work for him have to pass.

I am getting excited for this movie to come out. I wish they would give us more. The poster is nice but it just inspires more questions and not a lot of answers.

I am going to SDCC. Maybe I will find JJ and use my “truth” lasso like Wonder Woman on him.

72. Steve - July 23, 2008

“When he was younger he got his head caught in a mechanical…uh…
Rice Picker.”

I wonder if that can be said now days? Given how PC we have gotten. It was funny thing but it sounds a bit “wrong” to me know. (just me, I bet).

73. BrF - July 23, 2008

Maybe Nero is an earthling who delivers to the Romulans all of that Imperial Rome nomenclature which they use for reasons I’ve never been able to figure out. And maybe he’s using/collaborating with the Romulans, but we never actually see the Romulans in the movie, thus preserving canon. Oh, yes.

74. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - July 23, 2008

He’s the Mad Detective !!!! Many of you won’t get that. Those that do I commend you on your exquisite film taste!!!!!

75. Green-Blooded-Bastard - July 23, 2008

He’s a Vulcan that cut his own ears off?

76. Galaxy Quest 2 - July 23, 2008

He hacked the points of his ears off

77. WOWTREKWARSNUT - July 23, 2008

Considering that trek deals with todays issues, Im willing to bet that Nero is a rogue romulan , an extremist taking matters into his own hands to wage all out war with the entire galaxy!! Im willing to bet that Nero goes back in time to setup his rule and spread his ideals to the point where the earth-romulan war peace agreement never was signed. That is why spock is sent back in time in hopes to restore time.

I think this is a mirror universe movie very similiar to first contact So whats up with the ears? Nero disowns himself because he has pointy ears like a vulcan and he doesnt want anything to do with them only the new empire he has created and he makes himself unique with the new romulan extremist tatoo on his forehead. IM smart!

78. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

#70—Well said, and that was the point I was trying to get across in #62.

#73—Forget about preserving the canonical timeline. Nero and Spock travelling back to the 23rd Century makes the events of “Balance Of Terror” somewhat altered, or even altogether non-existent.

If any confrontation between the younger Enterprise crew and Nero’s boys involving face-to-face contact occurs prior to the BOP’s attack on the Earth outposts along the border of the Neutral Zone, then Kirk/Spock will already be aware of the physical appearance of the Romulans (which does not mean that it will automatically become “public” knowledge).

This will not violate canon because the previous timeline will no longer prevail.

There is also the possibility that only “Old Spock” will know the identity of the time-travelling villains. But either way, the basic premise behind this film means the implementation of an “altered timeline”—whatever happens afterward is canon. The previous timeline is irrelevant (except to our dvd players).

79. M.C - July 23, 2008

- Maybe a little alien bear eated his ears…

80. Multitrek - July 23, 2008

Maybe Nero is human and immortal like Flint from “Requiem for Methuselah”. Maybe he really is Nero from our own Roman era. He could be the link that brought Roman inspiration to the Romulan culture. After being abducted from Earth by Vulcans, for temporary research, he manages to escape and become the leader of Vulcan extremists leaving Vulcan to later become the Romulans.Instead of changing his identity like Flint, he becomes a historical figure on Romulus for milleniums.

81. Greg2600 - July 23, 2008

This guy looks like Kevin Federline!

That tattoo on his chin looks like the Ferengi logo.

82. Mike T. - July 23, 2008

I bet we will not see the Enterprise till late December around Christmas.
It would make sense for Nero and other Romulans to alter their appearance since Romulans were not seen by outsiders until the later part of the 23 century. In case whatever they are doing in the past goes wrong they could deny that they are Romulans and no one would know what type of alien they are.

83. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

#82—Once again, “Romulans were not seen by outsiders until the later part of the 23 century”…

Only in the previously dominant timeline. The very fact that someone is travelling back in time changes that altogether. If the Romulans appear to humans prior to the attack on the Earth outposts along the Neutral Zone, then BOT is irrelevant (at least that part of it).

Why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

84. Sean4000 - July 23, 2008

#4″””He’s obviously a Romulan who wants to distance himself from his Vulcan cousins!””””

That’s exactly what I thought from the instant I saw this image!

85. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

#84—It’s interesting how multiple people can see the same image and get something completely different from it.

The first thing I thought was—-I wonder what the other guy looked like after that fight…

86. DesiluTrek - July 23, 2008

Maybe Nero is just his first name, and his last name is Stiles.

He’s the great-grandson of the Stiles that was in the Romulan war. A hothead like his distant cousin, he shares that bigoted attitude — but in his case against Earthers, and he has revenge on his mind.

87. Jordan - July 23, 2008

He could be a Romulan with a mutilated ear…. ?

88. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

#87—Thank you…

89. K. M. Kirby - July 23, 2008

Looked at from the side, the ear probably is pointed.

90. Bob, the Evil Klingon Frontline Leader - July 23, 2008

SPOLIERS

The reboot is built around a WWE cage match between Spock and Nero. It ends with young Spock and Kirk beating Nero down with a ladder. This plot expalins previous reports of Scotty hanging out with a dwarf.

91. Jay - "The Real Jim Kirk" - July 23, 2008

I agree with the majority, its probably a battle scar and his other ear is allll good. I also agree with the remark about him possibly being part of a romulan cult movement…. intriguing!!

Either way, he looks bad ass and i sooooo cant wait for this flic!

92. Chris Roberts - July 23, 2008

Neo probally has had his ears mutialed to keep It a secret he and his group are Romulans.They are trying to chance history and want people
to not know they are Romulans.Plus It allowes the filmmakers to keep
Continuity and also have a Kirk Neo showdown.

93. PromoBoy - July 23, 2008

Could Nero be a human who’s defected to the Romulans?
Was it he who supplied all the vital tactical info to the Romulans, allowing them to attack outposts in “Balance of Terror”?
If Kirk and co. are dealing exclusively with Nero in the new film–
continuity would not be compromised: the Vulcan-Romulan link
would remain a secret. Nero’s human! Clever! My compliments to the writers for navigating thru that mine-field.

94. Beam Me Up - July 23, 2008

Perhaps the unfortunate incident with the mechanical rice picker will be explained.

95. sean - July 23, 2008

I said this in another thread, but you are NOT going to see the Enterprise till a trailer comes out, and I doubt we’ll have one of those until November. It’s silly to expect anything before that.

96. jr - July 23, 2008

Mabey he got his head caught in a ‘rice picking machine’ as a child.

97. Benjamin Sisko - July 23, 2008

NERO IS THE FUTURE GUY

98. Eric Bana IS Poida - July 23, 2008

NOT CANON

99. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

#93—“Was it he who supplied all the vital tactical info to the Romulans, allowing them to attack outposts in ‘Balance of Terror’?”

I guess you’re assuming some temporal paradox—as if Nero and Old Spock were present prior to BOT in the previous timeline, and everything is still as it was.

I think you have to throw out the previous timeline the moment Nero and Old Spock go back to the 23rd Century. There is no “continuity” to jeopardize in an “alternate timeline”.

If Nero is even partially successful in altering the course of ST history (and the earlier spoiler suggesting that 24th Century Spock interacts at some point with young Kirk/Spock indicates that he is), then the events in “BOT” never unfold to the exact conclusion we know. Spock and Kirk will not be shocked at seeing Vulcan-like humanoids on the bridge of that Bird Of Prey, and Starfleet Intelligence will already be somewhat aware of the connection.

As for the possibility of Nero supplying vital information to the Romulans, I find that unlikely. They are able to surprise and devastate those outposts for one reason— because of their tactical advantages at the time—the cloaking device and the flawed but formidable plasma weapon. And Nero’s knowledge of some 100 years or so of subsequent history would probably alter the Romulans strategy somewhat anyway. Why would they still need to “test” the strength and resolve of their former enemies by attacking them with one lone expendable BOP?

It is far more likely that Nero’s venture is not entirely sanctioned by the RSE, the political climate of which has been significantly affected by Spock’s aid to the dissident movement on Romulus in the late 24th Century. He is more likely the leader (or at least a significant member) of a rogue and more militant Romulan faction acting autonomously.

100. Beam Me Up - July 23, 2008

We did see the Enterprise in the first trailer.

101. THX-1138 The Fandom Menace - July 23, 2008

Maybe Nero travelled back in time and saw the pics of Jolene Blalock and Megan Fox that Anthony has posted and it caused him to chew his own friggin’ ear off.

I’m obsessing, I know.

102. diabolik - July 23, 2008

Perhaps the renegade Romulans voluntarily mutilated their ears as a sign of solidarity with each other and to mark themselves as rebels from the Romulan norm.

103. Harry Ballz - July 23, 2008

How about Blalock and Fox, wearing nothing but smiles, in a mud-wrestling match? How many would buy a ticket to that?

104. Marshall McMellon (Inventor of the Marsh-Mellon) - July 23, 2008

I suppose the Belgians will be the first to know for sure.

105. Harry Ballz - July 23, 2008

Maybe the rebels chopped off the tip of their ears to proclaim, “there’s no point in being Romulan!”

106. THX-1138 The Fandom Menace - July 23, 2008

Harry, that would be perfect except remove the mud and substitute me and I would be all smiles. I wouldn’t sell tickets but I am always willing to take turns.

Banned for sure.

107. British Naval Dude - July 23, 2008

101… homina homina homina!!! I can’t even go back ta’ tha’ linky post wit’ Megan fur fear of being hardily flushed inta’ madness meself…

gotta take me a cold shower afore I chew me own lobes off…

Arrrrrrrrr…. thar’s a point ta’ that Megan pic fur sure…

BND is now obsessing….

Arrrrrrrr….

108. Katie G. - July 23, 2008

Don’t you remember the episode (in season 6 of TNG, ep 14 “The Face of the Enemy”) where Troi wakes up and fnds she looks like a Romulan? She had been kidnapped and forced to help some important Romulans to defect.

And some guy who defected to the Romulans (Ensign Stefan DeSeve) “is beamed aboard after risking his life to return to Federation space. Commander Riker immediately places him under arrest for treason. DeSeve says it is urgent that he speak with Captain Picard. The ensign tells Picard that Ambassador Spock would like the Enterprise to rendezvous with a Corvallen freighter and take its cargo back to Federation territory. Unbeknownst to Picard, the rendezvous point is in the same sector where Troi has ordered the Romulan warbird.”

He had the Romulan haircut and clothing but not the ears because he was human.

Maybe that is what’s happening with Nero. Maybe he is someone who admires the Romulans so he emulates them but, not being Romulan, doesn’t have the ears…

kg

109. Norman - July 23, 2008

maybe Nero was part of a genetic expirement gone bad. they were trying to fuse piranha with tribbles, and things went bad…

HARRY MUDD LIVES!!!

110. herrmeister - July 23, 2008

^^
^^^
…..^
&))^
..>
U

ONLY THAT IS CANON

111. NOT J.J. Abrams - July 23, 2008

deleted and banned

112. Joe Schmoe - July 23, 2008

Yeah, he’s Chinese and his ears got caught in a mechanical rice picker.

113. Bob, the Evil Klingon Frontline Leader - July 23, 2008

109 – Tribbles?! That’s just plain silly. It’s a cage match! Old Spock and New Spock team up on Nero and use the famous Vulcan Groin Crusher until he submits.

114. Norman - July 23, 2008

‘piranha’ tribbles…

115. hubertis bigend - July 23, 2008

um, maybe he IS nero. i mean the original one. the roman one. we are talking time travel. wouldn’t be cute if the romulans went back to ancient earth to find out why their entire culture is based on an old earth empire that now is only good for sunglasses, pasta and leather shoes?

116. THX-1138 The Fandom Menace - July 23, 2008

THIS IS A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:

The Chinese rice picker joke had been done to death on this thread.

117. Lou - July 23, 2008

romulan-reman hybrid??

118. BrF - July 23, 2008

Closettreker:

First of all, I think there’s a chance the movie will just say the hell with BOT and not worry about canon and timelines and that will be that.

Having said that, I don’t get your timeline argument. Are you saying that when, in this movie, Spock goes back in time (assuming that he does), that what he does in the past will invalidate… every filmed moment of Star Trek that we’ve seen so far? We’ve seen a lot of time hopping over the years, and it’s never worked like that, right?

119. captain_neill - July 23, 2008

I like the idea of Nero as Future Guy

120. BrF - July 23, 2008

115: I think you’re on to something. The Romulans travel to Earth to get in touch with their roots, meet Silvio Berlusconi, and BAM: intergalactic war. I see it!

121. The Underpants Monster - July 23, 2008

Maybe’s he’s wearing some sort of trompe-l’oeil hat.

122. Wolf Trek - July 23, 2008

#70
Your statement (see quote below) is flawed.

“The events of Balance of Terror exist in a timeline where old Spock doesn’t go back in time to meet young Kirk and young Spock. That timeline is not relevant to anytime timeline where old Spock DOES go back in time to meet the young Spock and Krik. ”

Your assumption is that the BOT timeline is one where there is no visit by Old Spock. There is nothing to support that assumption.

And we don’t know what happens in this new movie, so we don’t even know if there is any interaction between Nero and Young Spock – which would support BOT Spock’s reactions and statements. Additionally, we don’t even know if Old Spock reveals his true identity to Young Spock. He may repeat his actions from the animated episode “Yesteryear”.
I guess that I can say in summary – until the new movie comes out, we just don’t know.

123. NOTBOB - July 23, 2008

“Nero isn’t necessarily a Romulan,” Kurtzman said, but wouldn’t give anything further than that. He simply smiled and said, “It’s all part of the plot.”

When the interview was done, Kurtzman said, “crap, give me the phone. i NEED TO CALL J.J. We need to change the plot.”

Seriously, the lack of one pointed ear was no big deal to me. Quinto has no dangling ear lobes in his pick. That’s because he has connected lobes and Nimoy does not. And if my memory serves me right, the article I read said that Quinto wears fake points and lobes in the film. Just not the poster.

And Kirk is apparently gone insane in the poster. He has that Full Metal Jacket look of , “Hi Joker!”

But I want to see the uniforms damn it. Not just half of a face.

Is Nero a romulan? I don’t know. I can wait for the movie. What I want to know is he “amazing,” and “funny?” Were’s Abrams? He’ll let us know that Nero is amazing and funny. And not a parody. He’s just so….amazing. It’s funny. And when he is funny, it’s so amazing. Your gonna love this movie. And if you don’t then, that will be amazing. And ten or fifteen years from now he’ll do an interview were he will tell you how this movie was not amazing or funny. But what was funny was how amazing the funny actors were. But not so funny ha ha but more…..more….amazingly funny.

124. Gorn Captain - July 23, 2008

Nero cut his ears, to distance himself from the Vulcans like others have said.

I think that Nero’s rogue group of Romulans is like a terrorist group trying to preserve Romulan culture and trying to prevent unification. That is how they will keep the story “with the times.”

125. montreal paul - July 23, 2008

124 – I like that theory. but the ear cutting could be just to “belnd” in with the humans while on earth trying to kill kirk.

Was it ever clearly mentioned for sure that Nero was Romulan? Maybe Klingons?? I don’t know. But too much speculation right now… can’t wait to see the actual movie!

And.. please… no more rice picker jokes.. it’s been done to death. And.. that was used to explain why Spock HAD pointed ears. Not the other way around anyway.

126. WOWTREKWARSNUT - July 23, 2008

105. Harry Ballz – July 23, 2008
Maybe the rebels chopped off the tip of their ears to proclaim, “there’s no point in being Romulan!”

RE: HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

127. WOWTREKWARSNUT - July 23, 2008

124. Gorn Captain – July 23, 2008
Nero cut his ears, to distance himself from the Vulcans like others have said.

I think that Nero’s rogue group of Romulans is like a terrorist group trying to preserve Romulan culture and trying to prevent unification. That is how they will keep the story “with the times.”

RE: YUP well said, thats what its all about and that final………….NEW PICS PLEASE!!!

128. Xai, Inventor or the Chinese Rice Picker, (Ah-soooooooo) - July 23, 2008

I vote that JJ, the cast and the writers speak no more on the subject of their movie until November. Anytime they do, several fans find something to take exception to. A word, a phrase…. next, Quinto will cock an eyebrow during an interview and it will be immediately non- canonical and heresy.

And yes, I understand it’s in a Trek fans blood to nit-pick, but some of you need to go pro and let the amateurs move up in the ranks.

;-)

129. AJ - July 23, 2008

C’mon, guys.

Nero is old Spock’s estranged son from his tryst with the Romulan Commander in TEI. The ears come from Spock’s human half.

He’s going back in time to make his pop’s life miserable, and restore his mom’s honor after her disgrace for having lost the cloaking device to Kirk and Spock.

It’s improbable, I know. But a decent flex of the imagination never hurts.

130. Dom - July 23, 2008

118. BrF said:’ Are you saying that when, in this movie, Spock goes back in time (assuming that he does), that what he does in the past will invalidate… every filmed moment of Star Trek that we’ve seen so far? We’ve seen a lot of time hopping over the years, and it’s never worked like that, right?’

Depends on how you look at things. The TNG era did a superb job of wrecking the timeline [coughVoyagerfinalecough]!

The TNG timeline was irrevocably altered by Yesterday’s Enterprise, for example: after the Enterprise-C returned to its correct timeline, Sela was born, K’mpec was murdered, the Kingon Civil War happened, the Duras family was wiped out and Gowron was ultimately assassinated by Worf.

After YE, TNG is set in a completely different timeline from before.

The timeline has often been altered in Trek, but only superficially, as certain characters have disguised their presence. For example, the Bell Riots still happened with Sisko taking Bell’s place.

The thing is, if Nero goes back in time and does something major, everything changes. If he blows up Vulcan, the effects of that will echo throughout the timeline! If Spock goes back in time and interacts with the past, at the very least, everything else will be altered.

Stephen Hawking’s theory, IIRC, is that, if any major modification happens, the universe has a safety mechanism that makes it split into parallel universes to keep it intact.

So if Nero and Spock travel back to the TOS era and bad things happen, the original TOS/TNG etc timeline will stay intact. All that should happen there is that Nero and Spock vanish never to be seen again.

Meanwhile, Spock and Nero will remain in a completely different universe, whose timeline will be at variance with their own experiences. It means that the future lives of TOS era Kirk, Spock, McCoy and co could be completely different. They could live for different periods and die in different times and places! Also if Spock and Nero attempt to return to the future, it will be the future of the altered universe, not their own.

Back to the Future 2 shows this the best!

131. Marshall McMellon (Inventor of the Marsh-Mellon) - July 23, 2008

But what color will the Golden Gate Bridge be? ;)

132. petitspock - July 23, 2008

Maybe Kirk and company don’t know that Nero is a Romulan. Remember canon says they don’t know what Romulans look like at this point.

133. montreal paul - July 23, 2008

130 – my head hurts now

134. Beam Me Up - July 23, 2008

Maybe there’s different Romulans like the Klingons and some have pointy ears and some don’t?

135. Gorn Captain - July 23, 2008

yeah, the ear cutting has to be either to reject the vulcan look or to blend in with humans.

I’m willing to be it all that he is the head of a Romulan terrorist group! lol

136. IronKing - July 23, 2008

No worries. I’m sure that Gary Seven will be trailing behind them all to clear up any discontinuity issues with his pen gizmo.

137. IronKing - July 23, 2008

Or crewman from the USS Relativity.

138. The Underpants Monster - July 23, 2008

#131 – Clear!

139. IronKing - July 23, 2008

Here’s a thought: what if Nero is a Klingon/Romulan hybrid? Their territories do border one another, and they’ve allied in the past (to exchange technology, etc.).

140. Joe Ames - July 23, 2008

Hahaha. I think it’s hilarious that so much effort and energy is spent on the meaning of a flat ear.

I thought all physical distinctions were without meaning — at least in the PC world of Gene Roddenberry.

:-)

“Nero” looks like a Hollywood tough guy. He will kill people and break things. We’ll root to see him die. IDIC goes down the memory hole.

141. Gorn Captain - July 23, 2008

139- I guess anything is a possibility!

142. Chris fawkes - July 23, 2008

Look at the ear, it has been chewed off at the top.

Too bad he does look like shinzon in the poster though.

143. Gamingboy - July 23, 2008

Kurtzman, if it ends up that Nero is a clone of Kirk, I will break my DVD of Transformers in two and send it to you piece by piece.

144. MORN SPEAKS - July 23, 2008

All I know is, I better have a legitimate answer for the “Romulan” look. I’m already not too happy about them not having bumpy heads. (I know some people are in favor, but I’m not). Romulans are my favorite villains, but this just seems like a totally different race to me. If you’re going to dramatically change something like that, just give me a new race instead. Having said that, I still have faith in this production.

145. jdawg - July 23, 2008

I think he looks creepy and like less of a cliche character without the pointy ears. I like it A LOT!

146. Sam - July 23, 2008

It looks like its been hacked off……maybe he is some type of social outcast or political prisoner.

147. DEMODE - July 23, 2008

I think the old time line will still be valid because (for all we know) nothing really changes, because it HAD already happened before. It was destined to happen, and the timeline we saw on the 60s show was because of what happens in this movie. Call it the “John Conner” (Terminator) effect.

148. Adam E - July 23, 2008

KURTZMAN: “Nero isn’t necessarily a Romulan,”

So to me this means that he is both a Romulan and not a Romulan – somehow.

So we have to figure out how this can be.
Do we know of any other species from Romulus?

I really hope Nero has nothing in common with Shinzon.
No Cloning!
I’m not Saying Shinzon was a bad villian (although I believe he didn’t reach his full potential).
I just want something original.

149. Captain Otter - July 23, 2008

#122-

Cast members playign bridge crew have made comments about working w/ Nemoy. Thus, old Spock DOES interact with at least some primary figures which DOES change the timeline.

More to the point, who says the old Spock in this movie is the Spock from the timeline we’ve watched for 40 years anyway?

Again, quantum theory will set you free. Free from canon anyway.

150. Out There - July 23, 2008

Nero goes back in time, goes crazy and becomes an abstract painter.

Changes name to Van Gogh.

151. galemazuma - July 23, 2008

Nero is bred from DNA extracted Shinzon and tasked to go back in time

152. Closettrekker - July 23, 2008

#118–“I don’t get your timeline argument. Are you saying that when, in this movie, Spock goes back in time (assuming that he does), that what he does in the past will invalidate… every filmed moment of Star Trek that we’ve seen so far? We’ve seen a lot of time hopping over the years, and it’s never worked like that, right?”

Then why did trekmovie.com confirm reports of an “alternate timeline” resulting from events in STXI?

Why does Rick Berman insist that due to the events in FC, that there is already an altered timeline?

As for whether every filmed moment of Trek will then be invalidated, that is not exactly what I am suggesting (although if the changes are significant enough, that is certainly possible). I was responding directly to concerns voiced here that canon would be violated if there is visual contact between humans (or their allies) and Romulans prior to the BOP attack on the Earth outposts along the border of the Neutral Zone.

It is very simple. If there is earlier contact, that particular bit of previously canon information will be irrelevant, given that this is an “alternate timeline”.

#122–“Your assumption is that the BOT timeline is one where there is no visit by Old Spock. There is nothing to support that assumption.”

Actually, there is… Abrams and co. have confirmed that STXI forms an “alternate timeline”. If, as you are suggesting, old Spock’s visit to the 23rd Century is a temporal paradox (like in “Yesteryear”), then why has the timeline been altered at all due to events in this movie?

#147—Once again, if what you say is true, then why the earlier (months ago) suggestion of an “alternate timeline” as a result of this movie? It cannot be both a temporal paradox and the catalyst for an alternate timeline. “Yesteryear” involved a temporal paradox. According to Rick Berman, FC produced an alternate timeline. From the information we have so far, the same is true of STXI. That doesn’t mean that the changes will be all that significant. It may very well be that the changes are very subtle—but there nonetheless.

153. sean - July 23, 2008

#144

They started out with no bumpy foreheads, so all they’d be doing is a compromise between TOS Romulans and TNG Romulans. I don’t see how that’s such a big issue.

154. IronKing - July 23, 2008

Further fodder for thought: In the Shatnerverse, it is said that Shinzon wasn’t the only clone produced. In point of fact, a Kirk clone was produced as well.

As for smooth-headed Romulans, many credible explanations have been proffered for their existence, so there’s no reason to change that.

Berman likes to claim “alternate universe” as his excuse for mutilating canon on Enterprise. I don’t buy it.

I caught word quite a while ago of Abrams & Straczinski (sp?) presenting a new series to Paramount involving a revision of the Trek universe (much like the darker reimagining of BSG). Perhaps this movie, like that proposal, will hold less to official canon than we expect?

155. IronKing - July 23, 2008

#152: Perhaps the only true alternate timeline is this newest movie, which would allow Abrams the greater flexibility he wanted for his proposed new series?

156. Wheeli - July 23, 2008

to say that the time travel never altered the time line is just wrong. we don’t know what the future would have been had they not gone back in time. If we throw ENT into the mix and the time line has been all messed up. If I were to go back in time tomorrow and change something in my past I would come into a different future and might or might not have memories of the original time line. I think the best example of the effect was “Butterfly Effect” every time he went back and changed a seemingly small thing, it had drastic changes in his future.

157. TL - July 23, 2008

Maybe he is a clone of the captain of the Enterprise and……oh no, wait wasn’t that Star Trek Nemisis?

158. GeekmasterPete - July 23, 2008

Just a hunch, but reading a few of these articles has given it away. My theory: The Romulans are Vulcan outcasts / militants. Their ears chewed off or clipped as punishment as someone else commented. Apparently, they are pretty angry about their abolishment from Vulcan for their non-peaceful ways.

159. MrChristian919 - July 23, 2008

Might I point out that it’s perfectly Romulan to engage in deception and misdirection?

Orci just wants us to question Nero’s race… which is very Romulan of him, planting that little hint. Which has lead this geek to assume Nero is, in fact, Romulan.

160. T.'. - July 23, 2008

How about…

Nero is a 1/2 caste Reman/Romulan, despised by both, but able to find a place with his followers as ultra-extremist followers of the Romulan Way? This leads them to take drastic measures to prevent the eventual re-unification with Vulcan instigated by Spock and, voila! You have our new movie.

Just a theory.

161. KevinA Melbourne Australia - July 23, 2008

It’s not the first time Bana has had his ears chopped off. See Movie “CHOPPER” about fellow Aussie and gangster Mark “Chopper” Read.

Maybe Nero is “disguised” by having his ears hacked off which is why no one will know he’s a Romulan thus preserving the TOS timeline. Cool! and very smart writing!

162. NotBob - July 23, 2008

A Long time ago in a galaxy near by there was once a Romulan artist. His name was Nero. He was not just any artist. He was what psychologists refer to as a nutcase. How nuts? He cut off the tip of his ear and sent it to his girlfriend. She rejected him. So, what’s a crazy badguy to do?

The answer is obvious. You go back in time and wipe her off of the timeline. But that was not good enough. He had to make sure that not only was she wiped out, but her great grandfather James Kirk. I know. You were shocked! But it’s not like you think. I mean, Kirk did have a reputation with the ladies, but it’s not what you think.

Kirk had a son. David. And David was traped on the Genesis planet while Spock was being reborn. And he was with a vulcan chick whose name escapes me (hey it’s the Kirk in me). They were sort of the Adam and Eve of the Genesis planet. I mean, one guy, and one girl. Those are pretty good odds. Add to that that David was a Kirk. David got killed, but the Vulcan chick had a baby. You didn’t know that, but you will. So Kirk was now a grandfather and he never knew it. But that’s alright because he was a father and didn’t know that.

Of couse this is all just crap. Though I do like the idea of making Nero a crazy reject artist wannabe who is hellbent on destroying the world. That just reminds me of….something. Hmmmmmmmmm.

163. Thomas - July 23, 2008

159. MrChristian919, that’s the best theory I’ve seen on this thread. It’s the only one I can recall that doesn’t involve some convoluted explanation for one mangled ear in one teaser poster. Considering the large scar on his head and the gash on his cheek, I just assumed his ear was damaged in battle. That would help explain his other injuries. I think this thread just goes to show that people would give creedence to the most complex explanations, but may rebuff the simplest one.

164. NotBob - July 23, 2008

PS. I know I can’t spell.

But all kidding aside, I kind of like my idea of the Adolph Nero story line. I mentioned the Genesis story with the Adam and Eve deal and had David and the Vulcan lady having a kid. Who was killed by his brother and that bad brother got marked. And that mark is just like the tatoo on Nero’s head. And Nero learns that he’s his own grandfather! And he has a brother Seth who was edited out except for a few lines. And he’s the harbinger of death. And the Final Cylon. They’re coming to take me a way! Ho Ho!

165. The Last Maquis - July 23, 2008

His ears? Too Much Oo-mox, Baby.

166. Iowagirl - July 24, 2008

Pointless.

167. e2 - July 24, 2008

what about if nero is an alien akin to Lazarus from TOS—an alien who assumed the roles of various historical figures on earth? this alien (possibly an El-Aurian) was Caesar Nero, then faked his death, left earth, took his knowledge of the Roman Empire and built the Romulan Empire? thousands of years pass and in the post-nemesis era, nero goes back in time to kill kirk…thus echoing soran in an abstract way?

another theory is that nero is a shinzon-like clone, but not of picard…OF KIRK

168. e2 - July 24, 2008

btw have u noticed how much bana’s nero looks like a bald, mutilated, badass version of pine’s kirk? hmmmmmmmmm……

169. e2 - July 24, 2008

think…kurtzman said ‘its all part of the plot..’….and that means more than just the movies plot, but also could refer to the romulan plot—(see above…)then……below…

who better to try to kill kirk than kirk himself?

170. neonknights - July 24, 2008

169. Well, actually that Clockwork Orange guy was quite successful killing Kirk…

171. Daz uk - July 24, 2008

Possibly the bastard offspring of a Klingon and Romulan. A person with severe idententity and psychological problems. He probably has the worst personality traits of both races…bad combination. But the making of a very interesting character.The top half of his head in the picture could be concealing Klingon-like ridges of some sort. Kurtzman stated he isn’t necessarily a Romulan. That means he is a Romulan in some form but not an exact definition of one.

172. captain_neill - July 24, 2008

Nero looks cool. I was miffed about the ears but I can see a jagged uneven mark at the top of the ears which looks mutilated.

The eye brows are arched which is good

Perhaps JJ has a class in which you do writing but you to pass you must make sure no one sees it or it is spoiled and you have failed.

I seriously hope the Romulans have more screen time than they did in Nemesis and that Nero doesn’t turn out to be like Shinzon.

I

173. captain_neill - July 24, 2008

black background, shifty eye, tattoo

all the ticks for the classic “SpPot the bad guy ”

it is a cool poster

174. The Underpants Monster - July 24, 2008

#165

Momulan: *knocks on space-bathroom door* Son, what are you doing in there? You;ve been in there for hours!

Young Nero: Nothing, Mom! Leave me alone!

Momulan: Are you doing what I think you’re doing? Too much of that and you’ll go deaf!

Young Nero: Mo-om!

175. Decker's Stubble - July 24, 2008

From Wikipedia:

Nero may refer to:

People:

* Nero, a Roman emperor
* Nero Caesar, a Roman royalty
* Caius Claudius Nero, a Roman consul and hero of The Battle of the Metaurus in 207 BC
* Robert Nero, a Canadian biologist

In fiction:

* The Adventures of Nero, a Belgian comics series
* Nero Wolfe, a fictional detective
* Nero (DC Comics), a supervillain opponent of the Green Lantern
* Nero (Devil May Cry), the main protagonist of the video game Devil May Cry 4
* Vice Principal Nero, a character from Lemony Snicket’s A Series of Unfortunate Events
* Nero, a minor villain in the British cartoon DangerMouse
* Nero the Sable, a member of the fictional Tsviets of Deepground in Dirge of Cerberus -Final Fantasy VII-
* Nero, a character in Boktai 2: Solar Boy Django
* Nero, a character from the manga and anime One Piece
* Nero Chaos, a villain in the Tsukihime visual novel game series

Software:

* Nero AG, a German software company (formerly known as Ahead Software), and its products:
o Nero Burning ROM, a CD/DVD authoring application
o Nero Digital, a suite of MPEG-4-compatible audio and video compression codecs
* Nero, a chess engine
* NERO – Neuro-Evolving Robotic Operatives, a video game in which soldiers are evolved with the NeuroEvolution of Augmenting Topologies algorithm

Entertainment industry:

* Nero (record label), a Swedish record label
* Nero Bellum, lead singer of the musical group Psyclon Nine
* “Nero”, a song by the Mexican rock group Molotov

Places and locations:

* Lake Nero, in Yaroslavl Oblast, Russia
* Caffe Nero. A chain of coffee houses
* Nero Island is an island in the Dodecanese archipelago, in the Aegean Sea
* Nero, Mozambique

Other:

* NERO is an acronym for New England Role Playing Organization, a live action role-playing game
* Nero, the word for black in Italian
* Nero, the word for genius in Finnish

176. Michael Adams - July 24, 2008

If the time line is changed the way they are making it sound like then (who said?, “It didn’t happen like that) TOS, TNG, VOY, DS9, and movies 1-10 would become irrelevant and unwatchable as Star Trek cannon. I know I’ve said some crazy things but this is bothering me. With the stroke of a pen they make our favorite fiction obsolete. The Wrath of Kahn needs to happen. Where is Vegr? if “The city on the edge of forever” never happens then The Federation would be winked out in an instant, have Orcizman (there new name) even seen ALL Tos episodes? All I’ve been saying ya’ll is that we should be worried a little. It will be a great movie and sell well, but at what cost? Does the good of the one….

177. BK613 - July 24, 2008

Me I am hoping the whole time travel thing is smoke and mirrors. Tired of TT in trek. However it should be pointed out that TOS time hopping always restored the timeline.

178. Michael Adams - July 24, 2008

The characters in the posters look super good, Pine looks great, and Quinto I can’t even get started on that. The whole ear thing? Kurtzman is just being mean to us, Nero is Romulan.

179. Closettrekker - July 24, 2008

#176—“…if “The city on the edge of forever” never happens then The Federation would be winked out in an instant.”

Actually, it would never have been put in jeopardy to begin with…

Calm down, as subtle changes in the timeline have already occurred in Trek. As a result of events in “Yesterday’s Enterprise”, for example, or First Contact.

The changes in the timeline do not necessarily have to destroy everything or become all-encompassing. Spock will likely be mostly successful in stopping Nero and his henchmen. I don’t think we should assume that all filmed Trek will become irrelevant. It is also likely, however, that there will be at least minor changes as a result of their interference.

180. e2 - July 24, 2008

170—technically while fighting soran LED to kirks death in generations, it was not soran who killed kirk; it was the fall when the bridge gave way that killed kirk…

plus the kirk we’re dealing with in the film isnt the kirk from generations and not just becuz shatner isnt playing him…he’s not yet become kirk the legend…but what if the romulans of the post-nemesis era created a clone of kirk (nero) which would figure since kirks middle name is tiberius, and gave the clone kirks memories, then sent him back in time to kill kirk, but subtly twisted thru mind control, nero’s kirk memories to make nero transpose kirks hatred of the klingons after they killed his son, to be for kirk himself instead, and for those who think this theory is unlikely, you obviously don’t remember what jj did with alias—

181. Closettrekker - July 24, 2008

#180—That is not why I think it is unlikely.

I do not believe that Nero’s time travelling mission would be sanctioned by the RSE. For one thing, if all they wanted to do was kill Kirk, why not just send an assassin or a fleet of ships to accomplish that. And what would the Romulans have against Kirk personally (that kind of thing would make more sense with the Klingons)?

More likely, Nero and his group are a militant and rogue Romulan faction, perhaps disillusioned with the changing political climate on Romulus (and Spock’s involvement in cultivating that new climate), or bent on personal revenge of some sort –more likely against Spock than Kirk, whether for his involvement with the Romulan Commander in TEI (and the potential “fruit” of that involvement), or because they blame his influence for the success of the dissident movement on their homeworld.

I just don’t think what you are suggesting is a good story for STXI, and it sounds far too much like Nemesis, particularly since it involves Romulan cloning and Starfleet captains of ships called Enterprise. I’m sorry, but I just can’t see it.

182. AJ - July 24, 2008

e2/180:

The logistics of explaining all of this may make sense in an episodic TV show, but it would muddle a 2-hour film in the canon dreck that the writers want to avoid.

And you can bet the farm that there will be no references to Nemesis (cloned captains and Remans, etc.), which was the only Trek film to gross less than its production budget.

183. e2 - July 24, 2008

WOOOAAAAHHHHHH….#50, after my reading your comment about khan i must amend my earlier clone theory—WHAT IF NERO IS A CLONE OF KKKHHHAAAAAANNNNNN!!! with all of khan’s memories? yes some part of it is dicey as khan died in a way so no one wouldve had the chance to take his dna UNLESS there was a futuristic romulan or klingon ship cloaked in the mutara nebula during khans battle with kirk, one with a sophisticated cloak in the vein of shinzon’s scimitar cloak in nemesis, and they beamed someone in at the last moment, extracted khans dna and beamed out b4 the reliant exploded?

184. e2 - July 24, 2008

to closet trekker and aj:

first to closet trekker: jj abrams is notorious for weaving complex storylines into tight timelines so its more likely than you think—moreover jj is already referencing nemesis, aj, as with the nero’s, and the romulans’ bald heads…and the vaguely reman-looking eartips…

moreover if it didnt intend to reference nemesis then why is the 24th century part set post-nemesis and not, say, in the early days of the dominion war, when the romulans had a non-aggression pact with the dominion, and seeing the federation getting ponded by the dominion and feeling boxed in, try a plot that might tip the power balance in their favor? and the idea of the romulans being disillusioned with unificationesque elements within romulan society wouldve also applied in some ways better, in the pre-nemesis days…such a story isnt wholly beholden to a post-nemesis timeframe

185. e2 - July 24, 2008

moreover just because nemesis failed doesnt mean they wouldnt redo it…part of what made nemeris fail was WHO DIRECTED THE FILM…a guy who cared nothing for trek…even the tng cast said so in interviews…the concept of nemesis was a wonderful idea, like if jj and his trek xi team had developed nemesis it would’ve been even more popular than first contact…

however i never explicitly said the empire sanctioned neros trip…theres where your rogue faction idea comes in…

186. AJ - July 24, 2008

e2:

Because it’s too much for Joe and Jane sixpack to handle without a collossal Star Wars style text-crawl at the beginning.

And Spock may be on Vulcan, for all we know.

We are assuming an audience with no recall of DS9, Romulans, or unification, etc. I am sure there will be only a small amount of time spent in the 24th century. The story is about the young characters and early adventures.

187. NOTBOB - July 24, 2008

176. ” If the time line is changed the way they are making it sound like then (who said?, “It didn’t happen like that) TOS, TNG, VOY, DS9, and movies 1-10 would become irrelevant and unwatchable as Star Trek cannon.”

First of all, I doubt that is what they’re gonna do. If they change the timeline in anyway, they’ll probably resort to what Trek episodes that used time travel tended to do–only altering small details. They did this the time when time was altered when Tasha Yar went back to the past. And the past was changed only slightly. And I do say “slightly” because if you alter certain facts, in reality you should have some serious changes. Like certain people never existing. That would have been interesting. Tasha goes into the past, Wesley is no longer born, Data was never found, and Worf was stationed on another ship. They did not make changes like this. They never do. In fact, they don’t do this in other shows usually either.

As for them changing things slightly so that “TOS, TNG, VOY, DS9, and movies 1-10 would become irrelevant and unwatchable,” based on what I have read they are no gonna do that. But even if they did, how would those shows become unwatchable? They still exist in the real world. And whose to say that there world would not just become another parallel universe? I mean, if you really want to you can say that the original show takes place already in a parallel world to ours. There was no World War 3 in the 1990s. We did not have the tech or science to send Kahn and crew into deep space in 1996 (I was hoping that the remastered shows and remastered Wrath of Kahn would change the years the 2096, or something like that).

And if they change things, they can have Kirk not get killed in such a rotten way. Kirk said he always knew he would die alone. They should have had him die alone. Pike may not get hurt so bad.

But trust me, I seriously doubt they’ll do any of that. If anything is changed it will just be stuff for the next sequals etc. Except for Kirk not dying. They may change this. The movie may end with old Spock returning to the 24th century and he sees Captain Kirk–played by William Shatner– is alive and well in the 24th, and we’ll find out later( in sequels) that he lived through the events of Generations.

188. NOTBOB - July 24, 2008

I mean ” who’s” not whose. Bare with me. I am an idiot. But I also don’t read the crap before I post.

189. e2 - July 24, 2008

aj—it boils down to this—for the concept to work only a couple lines need to explain it—

nimoys spock to quintos spock: ‘neros a clone.’

quintos spock to nimoys spock: of who?

nimoys spock to quintos spock: of kirk.

the rest fans will get on their own, and nonfans wont deem important.

190. Closettrekker - July 24, 2008

#184—“moreover if it didnt intend to reference nemesis then why is the 24th century part set post-nemesis and not, say, in the early days of the dominion war, when the romulans had a non-aggression pact with the dominion, and seeing the federation getting ponded by the dominion and feeling boxed in, try a plot that might tip the power balance in their favor? ”

They (Orci/Kurtzman, Lindelof and Abrams) have already addressed that, stating, as one of their objectives, tying in the post-Nemesis time period with Star Trek’s beginnings. Nemesis is the last Star Trek we see in the 24th Century. They wish to tie it all together. That is why Spock is not travelling from the pre-Nemesis period.

“moreover jj is already referencing nemesis, …”

He referenced Nemesis as where 24th Century Trek left off, and as something he acknowledges (along with ENT) as canon. That’s about it.

“and the idea of the romulans being disillusioned with unificationesque elements within romulan society wouldve also applied in some ways better, in the pre-nemesis days…”

I disagree. The dissident movement would likely be much stronger in the wake of cooperation between the Federation and the RSE against a common enemy, making a rogue Romulan faction that is disillusioned with it that much more desperate.

“such a story isnt wholly beholden to a post-nemesis timeframe”

That is irrelevant, since that IS where the story begins.

What you should ask yourself is what your idea has to do with “revenge”. Why would Romulans have a need for revenge against James T. Kirk at all?

To be fair, I don’t believe that my “fanboy wish” for Nero to be the more-than-slightly angered “love child” of Spock and the Romulan Commander in “The Enterprise Incident” to be much more likely. Such a story would be too beholden to knowledge of Star Trek history, IMO. Abrams and co. are trying to tell a story that people who have never seen Star Trek before can show up and fully appreciate. While AJ, Harry, The Vulcanista, Denise, myself, and the rest of the TOS fans at trekmovie.com would get it completely, it would be a much tougher sell to the average moviegoer…

Still, at least it would conform to Nimoy’s assertion that the movie is about revenge on some levels… and Nero’s quest for revenge would certainly make more sense if that were his backstory.

191. BrF - July 24, 2008

@ 130:

Dom, you wrote: “The TNG timeline was irrevocably altered by Yesterday’s Enterprise, for example: after the Enterprise-C returned to its correct timeline, Sela was born, K’mpec was murdered, the Kingon Civil War happened, the Duras family was wiped out and Gowron was ultimately assassinated by Worf.

After YE, TNG is set in a completely different timeline from before.”

That actually wouldn’t be my read of how that worked. I would say that YE revealed for the first time what had happened back at that battle that involved the Enterprise-C. So all of the events of YE (and Sela’s birth, etc.) had already happened before Enterprise-D met the C; Enterprise-D just didn’t know they had happened, until their encounter with the C, which was necessary for those things to happen. Does that make sense? Sort of like how it was necessary for Data to have gone back in time and to have left his head in San Francisco in order for Data even to have a reason to take the steps that led to him going back in time and leaving his head in San Francisco — and so on and so on. These things form these M.C. Escher loops that double back and rely on themselves, but the result is still only one real timeline. At least that’s always been my read.

And Closettreker: I hadn’t seen that Abrams himself said he’s setting up a totally alternate timeline. Really?

192. NOTBOB - July 24, 2008

I read that Abrams is creating a totally alternate timeline before, but that was not from anyone involved in the movie itself as much as it was just speculation from some posters–on other sites–who were bashing this movie when it was announced that it had elements of time travel. This was back when others mentioned the City on the Edge of Forever–and right before Harlen Ellison threatened to sue anyone who used his creations without his permission.

So, I treat the allternate timeline as just pure conjecture. At first, it was speculation that did not sit will with me. But after thinking it over I liked the idea. Because it would be a way to honestly have a fresh start without ignoring the 40 plus years that have been created. And neither universe is the right one, or the only one. It will just give writers of future movies and or shows a chance to write stories without being held back by established facts.

However, if this IS true, then the sequel can be a two hour long version of Space Seed and the next one the Wrath of Kahn. The third movie will be a remake of what many consider the first good Star Trek film.

193. Closettrekker - July 24, 2008

#191—“And Closettreker: I hadn’t seen that Abrams himself said he’s setting up a totally alternate timeline. Really?”

Actually, I think it was Orci who confirmed that with this site.

“After YE, TNG is set in a completely different timeline from before.”

That actually wouldn’t be my read of how that worked. I would say that YE revealed for the first time what had happened back at that battle that involved the Enterprise-C. So all of the events of YE (and Sela’s birth, etc.) had already happened before Enterprise-D met the C; Enterprise-D just didn’t know they had happened, until their encounter with the C, which was necessary for those things to happen. Does that make sense?”

You are talking about a temporal paradox, which does make some sense to me. However, it was Rick Berman, Ron Moore, etc. who claim that both YE and FC resulted in alternate timelines.

By the same token, the fact that Gillian comes back with Kirk in TVH could also have affected the timeline. Conversely, preventing Capt. Christopher from retaining any memory of his experience aboard the Enterprise prevented an alternate timeline.

194. Closettrekker - July 24, 2008

#189—“aj—it boils down to this—for the concept to work only a couple lines need to explain it—

nimoys spock to quintos spock: ‘neros a clone.’

quintos spock to nimoys spock: of who?

nimoys spock to quintos spock: of kirk.

the rest fans will get on their own, and nonfans wont deem important.”

That’s all well and good, but what does that have to do with revenge? Why are Romulans angry with and seeking revenge against a man who has been dead and moldering for such a long time when the story begins in the post-Nemesis era? For stealing a cloaking device 100 years before? That’s pretty weak.

195. Captain Otter - July 24, 2008

#176-

Many timeline theorists (including Hawking) saw that all possible realties actually do exist.

So an alternative timeline does not render any other time “irrelevant.”

Right now, there is a universe where I hate Star Trek and I am posting on a Stargate sight right.

Right now, there is a universe where I hate all science fiction.

Right now, there is a universe where I was never born. And another universe where I died young.

Right now, there is a universe where humans never evolved and there is no such thing as sci-fi.

The existence of those alternative realties do not negate the value of this reality.

Open your mind.

And for Pete’s sake, even if you cannot accept timeline theory in real life, STAR TREK IS FICTION, DUDE!

If JJ goes all BSG on us, every single Trek you’ve ever loved will STILL be there on DVD and in syndication. NOTHING will become irrelevant or unwatchable.

196. Closettrekker - July 24, 2008

#195—Good points.

197. The Underpants Monster - July 24, 2008

Maybe “Nero” is short for “No-eared one.” ;-)

198. BrF - July 24, 2008

So let’s say that Spock goes back in time and Orci et al. set up a new timeline — perhaps one in which Kirk didn’t die falling off a spindly bridge. Then Shatner runs the sequel, and all problems solved.

199. Closettrekker - July 24, 2008

#191—“After YE, TNG is set in a completely different timeline from before.”

The reason this is true, IMO, is that the kind of paradox you have suggested is impossible to rationalize without some external altering factor.

Think about it this way:

If an older Spock must be present (and disguising himself as a fictional cousin–Selek) in order for the young Spock to survive the Kas-wan, then how does the young Spock ever survive to become an older one to begin with?

I understand the difference in “YE”, but since the writers acknowledge the alternate timeline resulting from those events, it is difficult to argue against the intent. What you are suggesting is that the whole of TNG is an alternate timeline, and the original one would have had the Federation losing a war with the Klingons.

200. NOTBOB - July 24, 2008

Maybe, as a child, Nero got his ear caught in a rice picker.

201. BrF - July 24, 2008

@199:

I don’t know the incident you’re referring to (damn!), and also I try not to worry about writer’s intent, which I find beside the point to what they actually write.

Having said that, let me try to play along. The younger Spock survives because the older Spock is there, and then the older Spock can be there because the younger Spock survived. It’s as simple and as complicated as that. I mean, I get why in some ways that doesn’t make any sense, but these conundrums and paradoxes have ever been the true joy of time travel.

In fact, what’s more confusing to me is when a timeline DOES get altered. Consider Ray Bradbury’s A Sound of Thunder. The hunters go back in time, foul up the timeline, and then you’re left wondering, well, if these guys came from the future that will never happen, then where did they really come from? It’s always made more sense to me that the timeline basically can’t be changed, that if somebody goes back in time, what he’s going to do there has already been done, and that’s how the present has came about.

I feel like I’m back at a late night dorm bull session, but, anyway, that’s how I’ve generally approached these things.

202. Closettrekker - July 24, 2008

#198—-“Then Shatner runs the sequel, and all problems solved.”

If Shatner gets another shot at “running” a Star Trek movie, you’ve just got a whole other set of problems to solve (see STV: The Great Trek Turd Of ’89).

“…perhaps one in which Kirk didn’t die falling off a spindly bridge…”

Nero’s altering of the timeline having any effect on Kirk’s experience aboard the Enterprise-B would be a heck of a stretch. That would seem to necessitate Spock (very unethically) polluting the timeline on his own somehow, putting at risk events he knows to be crucial to the timeline he knows. I am assuming that Spock is doing everything he can to “protect” the timeline—not alter it. Assuming that he is at least partially successful, he would obviously strive to avoid giving (even his friend) knowledge of the future which could put important events and lives in jeopardy.

If their experience with Edith Keeler taught them anything, it is that even the best of intentions can have a negative effect on history. If Generations-era Kirk survives, who is to say that his presence in the timeline could cause something unforseen to happen, or unwittingly prevent something which must happen to preserve the known order of things? I do not think that Spock, of all people, would be so arrogant as to rationalize preventing his friend’s death (which he knows is supposed to happen in the future) and, in effect, “play God” autonomously. More likely, it will be the villains who “alter” the timeline, and causing Kirk’s death to be prevented is not a likely result if Spock is even partially successful in defending it.

However, without knowing the full extent of the changes in the timeline, anything is possible…

203. e2 - July 24, 2008

#201…that paradox a la a sound of thunder is actually part of a mobius paradox where a bad timeline exists, one goes back in time, changes it, then in the new timeline someone unknowingly makes the very changes which lead to the bad timeline in the first place….universal irony at work, in these cases its usually ones own alternate self who makes those changes

another mobius variant is people go back in time innocently, screw up history accidentally, get stranded in the past, then in an alternate timeline theiralternate selves discover clues to wat happened left by their originals in the past then the alternates go back in time to fix wat was screwed up and go ba k to the future

204. Closettrekker - July 24, 2008

#201—“The younger Spock survives because the older Spock is there, and then the older Spock can be there because the younger Spock survived. It’s as simple and as complicated as that. I mean, I get why in some ways that doesn’t make any sense, but these conundrums and paradoxes have ever been the true joy of time travel.”

I think a better explanation is that, at some point, there was a constant within the equation which allowed young Spock to initially survived. However, that constant was removed, necessitating the presence of “Selek” (maybe in the “original” timeline, Selek was not Spock, but an actaul cousin whom Spock had to take the place of in each repetition of those events). That constant’s removal would have been facilitated by some other form of interference with the timeline (after all, the Guardian is not the only method of TT in the ST Universe). There is no “chicken and egg” question, or any form of conundrum or paradox in that case.

205. JP - July 24, 2008

Perhaps he is a Romulan/Reman hybrid?

206. sean - July 24, 2008

I read an article that said JJ was planning on driving out to each of our houses and personally smashing all of our Trek DVDs & videos with a sledghammer to ensure they never existed and won’t plague his new Trek films. We’ll also have to submit to genetic alterations that will chemically alter our brains so we can’t remember they ever existed.

;)

207. rehabilitated hitch1969© - July 24, 2008

Nero is obviously Borg.

BEST!!

=h=

208. Frank B. Chavez III - July 24, 2008

Here’s an idea: Let’s all shut up about it so we can be surprised when the movie comes out.

209. Harry Ballz - July 24, 2008

Maybe Nero is the leader of the…

No
Ears
Romulan
Order

It’s their way of saying, “Unification? We won’t hear of it!”

210. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - July 24, 2008

I’ve got it! — He’s a closet Ferengi cross-species fetishist, and made the mistake of asking for oo-mox from a Nausicaan…!

211. Harry Ballz - July 24, 2008

Uh, could we BE bigger geeks???

212. Thomas - July 25, 2008

212. No, not really.

213. Notbob - July 25, 2008

Nero is obviously a plain old human. He’s ticked off because while he was passed out, someone had a little fun with the marker on his forhead. That someone…..Mr. James T. Kirk.

I’m 213!

214. ken - July 25, 2008

nero is a vulcan. note the eyebrows – not human. ear is mutilated. he probably wants to reunite vulcans and romulans… but under his… guidance…

215. The Underpants Monster - July 25, 2008

#209, c’mere for a big, sloppy kiss.

216. Out There - July 25, 2008

In regards to alternative timelines:

We’re living in an alternate timeline now. In the “real” timeline, I am emperor of the universe and have a harem of 300 beautiful women.

Oh, and the Cleveland Browns win the Super Bowl every year.

LOL

217. Closettrekker - July 25, 2008

#216—Only 300? …I say “Shoot for the stars!”…It’s your fantasy.

218. Out There - July 25, 2008

#217

Well the problem when you get too many is they start to cat fight.

In regards to TNG being an alternate timeline after the events of Yesterday’s Enterprise: I’m a believer that when something happens to change history, it had always happened that way. So in other words, Tasha Yar always came back in time and changed history.

Same goes with the Borg going back to stop the first warp flight.

The loop is part of the timeline, not a different timeline.

If you start to think too much about these sci-fi time travel scenarios, your head will explode. They don’t make sense, so just watch the movies or TV shows and enjoy them as entertainment.

Because common sense suggests that when the Borg tried to go back and change history, if they failed they could try it over and over again. Any enemy could go back in time and wipe out Earth at any point in our history. They haven’t.

I kind of like how the show Heroes handles changing history. Hiro tries to save the waitress from being killed. He succeeds, but she dies anyways. Because time and the universe demanded that she die, and she will no matter what.

219. Closettrekker - July 25, 2008

#218—“I’m a believer that when something happens to change history, it had always happened that way. So in other words, Tasha Yar always came back in time and changed history.”

I can’t get on board with that. To me, if not for the interference of Picard in the natural course of history, the Federation would be losing a war with the Klingon Empire.
Unbeknownst to Picard, he is living in an alternate timeline due to his own interference under different circumstances. Of course she always comes back and changes history. Picard is going to make the same decision every time. But to me, unless the natural course of events is allowed to progress, then the result of the interference is indeed an alternate timeline.

The Borg are the ones who alter the timeline through the events of FC. Even though they are prevented from disrupting the birth of a human/Vulcan alliance, their very presence alters things somewhat–if only very subtly (the presence of Borg drones on Earth in the 22nd Century). Things will be slightly different in that timeline, as now Starfleet Intelligence will have some limited knowledge of the Borg.

I don’t disagree completely with your “loop theory”, but that does nothing to dismiss the existence of different timelines.

“Because common sense suggests that when the Borg tried to go back and change history, if they failed they could try it over and over again.”

But would they know exactly what failed and change their plan accordingly, assuming the enemy did not survive the attempt and return to the future? They could try the same thing over and over again and still get the same negative results. In fact, all things being equal, they would. That enemy would always come to the same conclusion and make the same attempt in the exact same way–getting the same result. In the case of the Borg, the Queen did not survive the trip. How could she then make a decision to change her tactics and try again?

220. NOTBOB - July 25, 2008

OK…I GIVE.

If when the timeline is changed all that happenes is an alternate timeline is created or parallel universe is born, why the hell is the federation always making such a big deal of not interfearing the the past events?

I mean, using that logic then it would not be a big deal for Nero to go into the past and do….whatever….kill Kirk’s father, destroy the Enterprise, blow up Vulan, etc…. for Nimoy’s Spock. It would not effect Nimoy’s Spock. It would cause an alternate timeline or parallel universe to form.

I think that maybe this is the classic case of fans thinking about it maybe a bit more than the writers.

This is clearly an issue that still needs to be cover more clearly in the Star Trek stories, thus I dare say time travel has apparently not been done to death.

221. Closettrekker - July 25, 2008

#220—“I think that maybe this is the classic case of fans thinking about it maybe a bit more than the writers.”

Can’t argue with that…but what else have I got to do? (LOL)

222. The Underpants Monster - July 25, 2008

This discussion is the very reason that sci-fi writers should exercise a tasteful restraint in using altered-time storylines.

223. Closettrekker - July 25, 2008

#222—The controversy is more fun to me. I like debate, as long as it is fairly respectful and in good nature.

224. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - July 26, 2008

In regards to discussion #218-#220, I am of the persuasion to think of “alternate timelines” in terms of the concept from logic/philosophy known as “possible worlds” (look it up on Wikipedia; links don’t work for me on these boards).

Very sketchily, I’ll represent it like this: there is a possible world in which, let’s say, Hitler was not born, a possible world in which humans did not evolve, a possible world in which this universe did not come into existence, etc. Each of these possible worlds is successively less like the actual world that we inhabit, but they all are equally valid as possible worlds, and in a sense they all exist. So, it’s like parallel universes, kind of. Basically, you have to imagine an infinite cluster of infinitely diverging causal chains, where one possible world is one particular course along one of these causal chains; the ‘actual’ world is only actual in so far as it’s the one that we inhabit, the one we care about. But you can say, like I said before, that certain causal chains are ‘closer’ to each other than others.

Okay, so with regard to the fictional cases that are in discussion, there is a possible world, call it A, in which the Borg do not go back in time, one, call it B, in which the Borg do go back in time and “change history”, and another, call it A*, in which the Borg go back in time but our heroes stop them. Is A* closely related to A? Yes. Is A* identical with A? No. The causal chain in A to a great extent overlaps with the causal chain of A*, but from a logical standpoint, the two are distinct. You can call that “parallel universes” if you want, but I prefer to say that causal chain A* is the actual universe, because it’s the one we ‘inhabit’, the one we care about. I would make the same argument in regards to Tasha Yar & the Enterprise-C of Yesterday’s Enterprise.

As to #222, in general I think this stuff is fun, but I do believe Star Trek, as a franchise, has just about tapped out on it. The only reason I am enthusiastic about it being done again in STXI is that Bad Robot is doing it, and I think that team has done a great job with the subject on Lost.

225. dood - July 28, 2008

What “Dave in RI” said.

226. Doc Strange - April 17, 2009

Nero (and his crew) mutilated their ears after the time travel so that the Federation and Vulcans would not recognize them as Romulans. The tattooing is an old Romulan custom of honoring and mourning the dead.

227. robert - June 19, 2009

according to abhrams theres several cut scenes involving neo and his people being inprisoned in the klingon prison planet rura penthe…and there was a scene where nero fights a klingon and the klingon dammages his ear plus if you look close you will see a line of wounds near the right eat also inflicted by klingons…who in this movie so far wears riddged heard armor

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