Chris Pine: I didn’t go to Shatner-ville August 12, 2008
by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: ST09 Cast, Shatner , trackback
In a new interview with Crave Online promoting his new film Bottle Shock, the new James T. Kirk for Star Trek, Chris Pine talked a lot about how he appraoched the role and specifically how he did (or did not) emulate William Shatner’s performance..
Excerpts from Crave Online:
Crave Online: …what did you bring to Star Trek?
Chris Pine: I think what’s new about this particular version of Star Trek and what J.J. and Bob and Alex were able to bring to it that’s new and really exciting is an incredible amount of humanity to the roles. For a project that can be so, there’s a lot of spectacle to it, there’s explosions and graphics and computer graphics and that. There’s a lot of, it is really character driven. You really get to see why Kirk is Kirk, why Spock is Spock, how this crew got together. He, I think they did an incredible job of casting. Bottle Shock is a good ensemble that works well together. You have to believe that these people would fight and die for one another. That’s what made The Original Series so good and I think they did that. When people see what Zach did with the role and what Karl did with his role, what Zoe did with Uhura, she really expanded on a role that I think people will be really surprised and really excited.
Crave Online: Did you try and emulate William Shatner?
Chris Pine: I think what J.J. set forth in the beginning of the whole thing was to pay tribute to what was done before, to respect what these men had already given us in terms of creating their characters and then to bring our own unique take on it. I think that opened up just really myriad possibilities. I never felt in particular, I don’t know about Zach but I’m sure he would say the same thing is, I never felt encumbered. I only felt, "Thank God that we were given such a great foundation for these characters because I don’t really have to do all that much different from what they’ve given us." Then J.J. being the kind of wonderful, positive creative force that he is kind of let us do whatever we wanted.
Crave Online: But are you ever tempted to do the Shatner dramatic pauses, just once?
Chris Pine: You know, really what Mr. Shatner did was very specific and very unique to him. All I really tried to do is do justice to what he did. I think if I went to mimic-ville, I went to try to do Shatner-ville, it would not have been smart. J.J. never really asked for that so it was finding the balance I think between what was done before.
More from Pine about Star Trek at Crave Online.
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It’s been said before…I CAN’T WAIT FOR THIS MOVIE!!!
First. Anticipation builds.
I wouldn’t mind a single Shat-delivery homage line. But other than that, this is good news.
I honestly have no idea what to expect. Mainly because I can’t imagine Kirk NOT sounding like Shatner – it’s the voice I hear in my head when I’m reading Kirk’s dialogue in various Trek books, comics, what have you.
That said, I’m VERY interested in seeing another take on Kirk (besides Cawley’s, which has really grown on me) that gets the character across without Shatner’s mannerisms and delivery…
Ugh, Cawley’s “Jim Carrey-inspired” Elvis impersonator? No, please no!
I think Pine will be just fine.
Why did these goons have to push my happiness back six months?
#4. I too have grown to like Cawley after initially dismissing him because he just wasn’t Shatner but who is? I think he’s done a fine job and his love for TOS definitely comes through. I’m just hoping Chris Pine gives the role the respect it deserves. Everything I’ve read so far indicates he has. Heres hoping…
Enough talk! Time for a preview!
Shatner’s Kirk has been parodied so many times that if Pine did go to Shatner-ville it wold turn the film into Galaxy Quest. Not that GQ wasnt a good film, but that is not the kind of movie JJ is making.
I agree. If he parodies Shatner you might as well bury the franchise.
I was watching the Princess Diaries 2 recently (I know, kind of scary). Anyway, watching Chris Pine, I was like, Yes, that’s Kirk right there. The way he smiled and the way he talked was just Kirk Kirk Kirk.
I think they cast the role perfectly. Of course, we’ll only know for sure when we see the movie.
i wish i had a house in Shatner-ville
I appreciate the fact that Pine is deliberately avoiding a Shatner impression. He has been in the unenviable position of portraying a character that everyone but Shatner (or Cawley) has reduced to a caricarure. I think people are going to be surprised that someone else might play Kirk while avoiding sinking into a bad Shatner impression.
Give me an arrogant/confident captain with some swagger and I’ll be happy.
I like Pine’s sentiment and enthusiam. He really likes this, his thoughts fall through a wormhole. I’m really really glad you ran this, it’s bizarre to read, like a transcript of an Arkham patient. Glad he’s not immitating The Shat, no way to reconcile the start and finish of the same sentence.
#11 you could go fishing in Kirk Creek and have a drink of ROmulan Ale at Bill’s Bar
Thomas — since when had Shatner NOT reduced Kirk to a caricature? One of the big fears of putting him in the movie is that you’d somehow get Shatner vintage STV. Maybe if JJ put a phaser to his head, Shat could call up the introspective, wisened aspect of his famous character for an appearance in 12 or 13. Otherwise, I’m still holding out hopes for a classy voice over, a la “Give me a tall ship and a star to steer her by…,” to take us into the closing credits.
Maybe it’s just me, but can you imagine Trek without Shatner? That being said, with his one performance, I think Jeffery Hunter would have made a great captain but he’s JUST NOT SHATNER!!!
Oddly, I will be driving through Pineville tomorrow – but I won’t be stopping.
“since when had Shatner NOT reduced Kirk to a caricature?”
First Season Kirk was no caricature.
CmdrR,
Okay, I admit that at some point (probably STV) Shatner stopped doing Kirk and it became Shatner as Shatner. I was thinking of Shatner as Kirk in the 60’s TOS era. Anyway, based on StarTrekkie’s recommendation, I might have to watch the Princess Diaries 2 just to see Pine’s performance. I have seen nothing of his acting work.
Pan Always Bored Me-
“..can you imagine Trek without Shatner?”
Yes, I can. I can imagine four Trek television series without him.
You know, even Shatner didn’t do everything Shatner style. It’s not as if every single Kirk line was… WROUGHT… through… draMATIC!… (close up, throaty) …pauses.
This makes me so happy: “What Zoe did with Uhura, she really expanded on a role that I think people will be really surprised and really excited.” I hope this means Uhura’s a major character.
…Yeah, Pine just doesn’t have the guts to be Shatner :-) :-P
…Whoops. Meant that in the singular :-/
@15 yea drink romulan ale and blood wine at bill’s bar and get into fights with klingons,
then tell all women how big my starship is , thats the dream in Shatner-ville
#10:”I was watching the Princess Diaries 2 recently (I know, kind of scary). Anyway, watching Chris Pine, I was like, Yes, that’s Kirk right there. The way he smiled and the way he talked was just Kirk Kirk Kirk.”
Absolutely agreed. You know that last speech his character has, where he’s telling the nobles that if they’re smart they’ll make whatshername the queen and he ends up with “And just think how lovely she’ll look on our postage stamp” – I watched that and I knew this guy’s going to be a great Kirk. :-)
i was bored , so i moved to shatner-ville
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/9378/shatnervilleep8.jpg
http://img360.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shatnervilleep8.jpg
Star Trekkie, I watched Smokin Aces on HBO the other day, and after watching him on top of Ben Affleck playing with his mouth and I thought if Chris Pine can play this part he can do anything. That character was from downtown crazyville. Perfect practice for talking to people dressed up as aliens and keeping a straight face.
Shatnerville’s not so bad, but Shatsburg is awful. My cousin just came back from a week in Cabo San Shatner, and he said it was great, though.
Maybe Pine watched a lot of Denny Crane?
@26 someone should upload Pine’s key scenes from Princess Diaries 2 to YouTube. All i can find there now are sappy music videos made from the movie.
yes, please do
if Shatner was going to be in the movie, you would probably be hearing Pine singing a different tune. Be it as it is, unllike Zack, Pine had very little interaction with sour grapes Shatner, and thus he could take his role with his spin on Capt James T Kirk.
After watching a couple of episodes of ST TOS RM on the plane back from Vegas yesterday, I don’t think anyone could do justice to Shatners performance without having him in the movie.
This movie will be awesome, T minus less than one year to go.
BTW Zack and Nimoy were awesome together in Vegas, u really could tell they seemed to be not just actors working together, but friends as well.
IT’S GOING TO BE HARD ENOUGH…
…for die-hards and the general public alike to accept the new actors once they all walk on the screen for the first time. I imagine it’s going to feel like the umpteenth parody or “SNL” skit of STAR TREK. For the first 5 minutes, I’m sure a good chunk of people will be unconsciously waiting for a punchline!
If Pine WERE to fall into any “Shatner-isms,” the drama would be shattered and the audience will feel that that’s their cue to laugh.
Re #8. Anthony Pascale
“Shatner’s Kirk has been parodied so many times that if Pine did go to Shatner-ville it wold turn the film into Galaxy Quest. ”
LOL!
I have thought for sometime that Kirk would be the hardest role to get right. Too much Shat and people would groan, not enough and the fanboys yell about not respecting canon.
And for the record, I LOVED Galaxy Quest!
Good answers from Pine. No Shatnerisms, please. I don’t want this movie to be a joke.
Pine simply needs to play a brash (perhaps even arrogant), passionate, loyal, and naturally dominant, alpha male leader his who is just as likely to solve problems with his fists and his…well… you know… as he is with his brain.
That’s James T. Kirk!
We also must remember that this Jim Kirk is a younger man, and likely has not yet fully developed into the command-grade officer we knew as the Captain of the Enterprise. I look forward to seeing such a “transformation” onscreen, as well as the development of the relationships among Star Trek’s “Big Three”.
The first trailer will enough to tell if this film is Star Trek or The Emperor’s New Clothes.
#19)
I completely agree with you.
Nobody could touch Shatner in season one. He was young, hungry, eager to prove himself and his acting was top notch.
Watch his face in particular. The subtlety of his expressions are excellent.
But sadly things deteriorated rather quickly to Shatner on all fours imitating a horse on that 3rd season travesty “Plato’s Stepchildren”
It seems that fame can sometimes make an actor become complacent.
Also the hectic schedule of television probably played a part as well.
:)
17
Maybe it’s just me, but can you imagine Trek without Shatner?
No I can’t.
I think a little Shatner-ville would be nice. It’s a nice little town. somewhere between Mount Pilot and Mayberry.
I also think a really fine actor could find the line to do a little of his take and Shatner’s take. But that’s just me.
#39:”I also think a really fine actor could find the line to do a little of his take and Shatner’s take.”
There’s no reason a really fine actor would want to.
>>34. SPB
. . . If Pine WERE to fall into any “Shatner-isms,” the drama would be shattered and the audience will feel that that’s their cue to laugh.<<
No matter, Paramount’s going to be laughing all the way to the bank with this movie, whether Pine does a brand new, never before conceptualized version of Kirk or his version of the old stand-by. But the fact is, the franchise at this current time is dead, and the meager crumbs we are being fed is truly breathing new life into Trek just by the anticipation alone. . . . So for the record, I’ll give Pine a pass on his version of Kirk for now, the same goes for all the other actors and actresses stepping into the same big shoes that they all have to fill, and I’ll save my judgement till after I see it. I’m going in with the attitude that there will undoubtedly be somethings I’ll love, as well as somethings I’ll have to live with, but the fact of the matter is that I’ll be happy because Star Trek is back! I haven’t missed an opening day yet (yup, even TMP!). And hopefully, I’ll get what I paid for and Paramount will make more. . . LOTS more!
Completely off-topic, but there’s something I just noticed that I wantedto point out here:
If you take a look at the poster for the movie Tropic Thunder, look at the tattoo on Ben Stiller’s right bicep. Being the Trek fan that he is, I think it’s obviously an homage to the emblem of the Terran empire. I just thought I’d point it out.
There was an old Starlog article where Mr. Shatner said, “I am Kirk,” and went on to explain (I’m paraphrasing) the Kirk we see on television is embodied by William Shatner, and, therefore, the two could not be separated. Some people may have misunderstood what he was getting at, but, essentially, I think this is why we think Kirk and see Shatner. Being a Sean Connery fan, I had the same feeling about James Bond. Watching a new actor take on a role so closely associated with a particular actor is not always easy. It could be suicide for the actor (remember George Lazenby?)! Yet, I also used to think of Basil Rathbone eternally as Sherlock Holmes, but Jeremy Brett’s portrayal clearly stands on its own, and definitely won me over. From everything the new cast of Star Trek has said, it seems they are pointedly aware of their position/predicament. They seem respectful of the series and the actors and the fans, so this has got to be more than just a gig for them. I’m glad they aren’t going to simply “copy the habits” of the originals, and I don’t think they are going to do any harm to these roles.
I still don’t think delivering a line or two like Shat would be a bad thing. I’m not saying the whole performance.
It’s possible to pay homage to Shatner’s Kirk without imitating Shatner’s Kirk. It sounds like that is exactly what Pine did. Actor’s can be very subtle in their performances, from time to time.
Ugh, Cawley’s “Jim Carrey-inspired” Elvis impersonator? No, please no!
Why are some Trek fans bent on being so mean spirited and so willing to hurt others with their words? I have earned my living as an Elvis impersonator for over 20 years. In all that time I have never been insulted by one single Elvis fan, not one! and I have performed all over this country. Sadly, I can not make that same claim about my fellow Trek fans. I have been repeatedly insulted, for the last 5 years and I just don’t get why.
More than any of you, I was not happy with my appearance in my earlier film efforts, but I had no choice and simply could not cut my hair or there would have been no money coming in to make New Voyages. What I have tried to do with my performance, particularly of late is to echo some of Mr. Shatner in my Kirk, simply because so much of him and what he brought to the character is Jim Kirk, and also because we are deliberately continuing the original show, not re-imagining it, with a new spin.
As I have said before, My hat is off to J.J. for doing this, and for taking the chance to be kicked in the nuts by the likes of some. Chris Pine is a Gentleman. He treated me so well on set, He even told me it was a Pleasure to meet one of the other two Kirk’s. I was elated with his performance.
I just wish my fellow Trek fans would be less insulting, and try to live up to Star Trek’s ideals. Word’s do indeed hurt people, So think before you type.
James Cawley
And anyway…..why is it okay for Yelchin to pronounce all the “W”s like “V”s because that’s the way Koenig did it and not for Pine to do some Shatner?
Again, I’m not saying an exact imitation but I don’t understand the double standard here. Further more I think it’s incorrect.
Hey man, I like your performance and all your endeavors on your projects.
James Cawley – the hardest working man in Space/show business.
James Cawley — you ARE appreciated by fans for your hard work!!!!
As for Pine doing Shatner. Bottom line, whether you like him or not, there’s only ONE William Shatner. It would be parody or worse if Pine tried to immitate Shat’s style. I’m hoping he just captures the essence of the brash and cocky captain. And most importantly for me, that he and Zach have that chemistry like Leonard and Bill did.
I do like that Pine calls him MR Shatner!
Pine shouldn’t imitate Shatner. Shatner should have been in it as well. This movie will be fine and is a great event to look forward to. The only thing that does not make sense was this issue with Bill. They should have waited to see if they could work him in before meeting him. i find it hard to believe a flashback scene with Leonard would not work. A scene with Pine would be nice.
Hi James Cawley,
I’ve enjoyed your work a lot… watching World Enough and Time,
I was surprised to find myself feeling like I was really watching
a new TOS episode. Sorry other people are rude, but there are
always people like that around, aren’t there. Don’t take it to heart,
and keep doing what you’re doing!
gs
wow, fast-moving thread…
Thomas, et al:
I agree that in TOS’ first season, something great was created and all who contributed deserve kudos. Shatner included. The movies were problematic. At times, Shatner’s Kirk became something other than the captain of a starship. The character became a story device, a comedic device, and action hero. The parts became far less than the sum. Under strict direction from Meyer or Nimoy, Shatner focused his considerable skills. We got layered introspection, new revelations. Shatner under Shatner? Chaos. Slapstick. Frankly, junk.
Could Shat be Kirk again? Of course, but it would require one helluva strong director and a realization that any Kirk he does now has to be a nearly 80-year-old Kirk. If all you want is to see the guy put on a gold shirt, you could have Jerry Lewis play the role and the result would be about the same. Genius making chaos.
My opinion. Your warp mileage may vary.
I keep hearing names thrown around like Bond, Holmes and Batman. Let’s not forget that those characters are based on source material that was printed long before they ever made it to the screen.
The source material for this movie is TOS, and the source for Kirk is Shatner. So please enough of the Shatner was a ham and no Shatnerisms junk. If Shatner was a ham then Kirk was a ham.
That being said, I like that he said he tried to find a balance between what came before and putting his own spin on it. A full out impersonation would feel like a parody.
I could see McGregor in the same role as Guinness, but he didn’t impersonate Guinness. He took some mannerisms (and accent) from him and added his own take on it.
There’s also some comments in the full article about the bridge set. When do we get to see that?
If the accepted explanation for Kirk’s….. pauses…. between words is that he is thinking hard about what he is trying to…. express, then it’s perfectly plausible to imagine that as a young cadet he would be more brash (and of course we certainly see the brash side in Kirk as captain and admiral.)
I wouldn’t mind a quick scene in the movie where Kirk says something without first carefully choosing his words and receives a negative reaction or is misunderstood. Even as a minor element that many people wouldn’t even really notice, I think it would make a great transitional moment, showing how Kirkspeech was born.
Just my .02.
#46 James-
I hope Chris and JJ understand, as I think you do, that Kirk and Shatner have become so intertwined that there is this collective “entity” which has developed over the years which is really hard to ignore.
In other words, if one does not “do Shatner” to a degree, one is not “doing Kirk.”
To go against the grain is setting oneself up for audience non-acceptance.
I am just now seeing that James Cawley is/was here.
Sorry Trekkies have no manners. I would say, and have said, to you the same thing that I would say to Chris Pine: Enjoy this. Be Kirk, rather than trying to be Shatner being Kirk. Trust your own instincts to guide you through the things that drew you to the character in the first place.
That’s all.
By the way, if you’re casting, I’d love to take on a roll. My wife says we’ll be rich by the end of the year, so I should have plenty of time. I could just be a blur behind your Kirk’s head.
Eh? Eh? C’mon!
#53 My thoughts, exactly.
Who is the weakest link?
Mr James Cawley. Dont let em get to you. You have done the best job you can to keep trek alive and all of us fans appreciate your hard work. You are not a perfect Kirk but No ONe would be and you know that. I agree that by the time I watched World Enuf and time…I really believed you were kirk. Kirks Character was really affected by the love and the loss. You did great in that episode and I also loved you in STARTREK OF GODS AND MEN and in fact if not for you they could not have made that excellent little tribute to fans. So thank you for that as well…And even in the first episodes you did it was all fascinating and great to see updates on stories with great gues stars….Star Trek Fans especially the picky ones that seem to only like TOS instead of all variations of trek like many of us do, well you guys should be nicer to Mr. Cawley. He has done what he does at considerable expense and time all for the love of TOS just like you guys. I have nothing but admiration for you and I only wish I had dvd copies of all the stories so I could put them on my PSP and watch them and show them off whenever I wanted to..I hate watching stuff online only…but that is the only not fun thing about what Mr Cawley and his many very talented fellow actors, writers and effex and set people do for us fans. Thanks GUY! I am sure there are plenty of fans that apprecate you in many ways!!!!
#38, 19 – Agreed. Shatner did an excellent job of acting in season one, before…the…shatnerisms took over, and I hope if Pine looked at any of Shatner’s work as Kirk, it was that. Pine’s comments are encouraging: I am very cautiously…still ever so slightly…optimistic. >;>}
James Cawley-
“I have been repeatedly insulted for the past 5 years and I don’t know why.”
Because the most viruently hardcore fans think Trek is untouchable and that to attempt to portray these characters with anyone other than the original actors and their mannerisms is considered blasphemous. Which is utterly ridiculous.
Look people, it’s gotten to the point where someone who has worked hard to honor Trek has been wounded for his efforts. It’s things like this that give Trek fans a bad name, and I can’t help thinknig maybe it’s kind of deserved now.
I’ll bet on May 8, 2009 we’ll be saying Chris.Pine… you are… The Weakest Link!
Goodbye.
And a huge search to recast Kirk for ST 12 -if there is one- will be on.
Let’s just say Pine does not impress me as being a particularly good actor so far.
I hope I am wrong.
OK as to what The SHat has said about his acting in Star trek, I remember the Album that Gene Roddenberry made, that was released with the soundtrack to TMP on cd….I had the original album when it came out….Shatner said in that album that doing TELEVISION is back breaking time intensive work that they were on the sets long hours and that FATIQUE sets in and so he was of the opinion that most of the people you see on TV are like the characters they play on tv because as Shat perceives it, he was too tired and the work too hard to be “ACTING” all the time. I think what he meant was that the basic PERSONAS of the people you see on tv may be similar in real life…in other words people hired for specific roles are because they look seem like they would be correct in those roles….he said its not that he is Captain Kirk but aspects of his personality and drive reflect the character and vice versa…..I think what he said has SOME validity but I also know many tv and movie actors do roles that are nothing like their real personalities so I dunno….
James C.#46- I too am surprised, angered and a bit saddened when reading some of the disturbing posts you have noticed. My own opinion: I believe there is some jealousy which abounds in the Trek arena. You are producing a labor of love which many here would trade their right arm for. Unfortunately, a few hypercritical people do not see the long hours, hard work and innumerable obstacles you experience. Rest assured these few do not speak for the majority. You, your entire production team and the lovingly-sculpted product you produce are admired and appreciated.
#46—Mr.Cawley:
I can’t say I have taken the time to personally view your work or any fan productions, but I have seen more than enough posts here to be able to assure you that there are alot more fans who appreciate your efforts and performance than those made by the likes of Darth Quixote in post #5.
He is not even a regular poster, and your voice seems to mean a great deal more to our fellow Trek fans than any insults (probably inspired by his own lack of self-esteem) made by someone who doesn’t have the guts to do what you do. I can recall a collective sigh of relief here at trekmovie.com— not so long ago— when you visited the set of STXI and confirmed for us that the look and feel of the new film met with your approval, so try to remember compliments like that when you see some random slight like that.
With a poster name like Darth Quixote, he probably belongs on a Star Wars fansite anyway—where the conversation is a bit more dumbed-down for the masses…
Do what you do…and I promise to make time to see some of it soon.
James,
In my previous post, I did not express my gratitdue for the hard work you and your team put into NV/P2. I was personally more frustrated with the bile that can show up on these threads. I know that within the last month or so that you hadn’t been feeling well, so I hope you’re feeling better.
As Rodney King once opined, “can’t we all just get along?”
C’mon, let me see you smile…….you know you want to……
It’s interesting how Pine sort of deflect each question. The questions are addressed “you” and the answers are all “J.J.” (or “J.J. and Bob and Alex,” etc) … He seems very cautious about discussing his own contributions and more eager to praise the overall creative direction. Still, upbeat is upbeat. I’ll take it.
I’d be tempted to read into it, but since it’s very possible he’s just scared to death that the “J.J. Anti-Spoiler Police” will come to his house in the middle of the night and drag him away to a secret bunker where he’ll be kept in line by a guy in a rubber “Cloverfield” monster suit, it may just be that he’s being as cautious as he can be :)
I think he’ll be fine as Kirk, and I know it’s blaspemy to say this, but while I’m a huge TOS junkie and I worship at the altar of the Shat … I really do feel that Kirk is the _easiest_ of the characters to re-cast. The core of the character is very classical, very alpha-dog-clean-cut-hero. There are many details that Shatner created in performing the role and defining it, but even with Shatner’s eccentricities he still brough Jim Kirk to life along very classical heroic lines … I think Kirk is defined more by those elements than by the performance details (contrast with Spock and McCoy, who are defined more – IMO – by the things their actors brought to the table, even though McCoy, in particular, has a comparably iconic/classical core). Really, I think as long as you can do a sh*t-eating grin and be a stand-up guy when the time comes, you can do Jim Kirk.
And Cawley: many of us love ya (and all your efforts); never forget. Our affection is much more powerful than the raspberries from the naysayers, even if it doesn’t always feel that way in your gut.
I still wish you’d speak up a little more, though. Sometimes I have to tap back a few seconds to make out what you’ve said (maybe just a sound-mixing issue). Own your Kirk, baby; he’s a fine one.
“princess diaries II” deleted scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erMIbcLUCHo
Chris Pine’s scenes from “Confession”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewWujpC3VAc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2gTy4vd_Hk
Chris Pine’s scene from “Blind Dating”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km3Zytw0Tck
“Smokin Aces” check out 2:12 for chris pine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_7ClB785ns
As long as Chris Pine tries to create a Kirk that echoes the fine performance of Sandra Smith; and adds an element perhaps of a young CHiPs “Sergeant Getraer”… and a touch of the adventure-loving of a young Indiana Jones and the wink of a ‘young Elvis’, I think Pine will do fine.
There’s no need to emulate the more mature Kirk that Shatner portrays: we can all take to heart that the death of Gary Mitchell in WNMHGB aged Kirk beyond his years. I’m sure the O/K script probably even interprets things that way…
Another oo-rah for James Cawley, too, from me. I think the count is something like 47 to 1 now in favor of James. ;) Anyway, we had the same problems in 1980 with our fan film. Our Kirk (strangely, also named James.. Jimmy Skipper… what an appropriate last name!) also had to contend with not mimicking Shatner’s Kirk. Our Kirk was a post-TMP Kirk though, so in direction for him, we went with a bit of Commander Koenig of Space:1999 as a model for this older, wiser Kirk.
Mr. Cawley,
Don’t vindicate the petulance of some so-called Trek “fans” with a response to their shallow, marrow-minded comments. In the anonymous, no-consequences world of the internet, you’ll do nothing but fuel their ire. They are best left ignored.
As someone who puts an artistic product forward for public scrutiny, you know there will be some who spew their bile simply so they can stoke the flames of rancor. They bounce in, figuratively slap someone in the face, then run off because they’re too cowardly (and/or inarticulate) to engage in actual discussion and debate. Then they sit back and giggle at the furor they’ve caused. Unfortunately, others who frequent internet boards like this fall for these banal tricks time and time again, when we really should no better. The best rule regarding these people is “ignore them and they will go away.” If they can’t incite trouble here, they’ll find somewhere else to go. Let them be someone else’s problem.
To your question regarding the demeanor of Elvis fans to Trek fans, I think I have an answer. I’m sure there are a lot of Elvis fans who look at Elvis impersonators as low-rent usurpers of a man they greatly admire. They might not want to have anything to do with you, so they don’t go to see such performances. That’s why you never hear from them. They’ve deliberately removed themselves from that arena. Dabbling in the mythos of Trek is an entirely different beast. Put yourself on that stage, and you’re making yourself a potential target for any Trek fan with a chip on their shoulder. Maybe they’re jealous that you are doing something they cannot do themselves. Maybe they feel that you’re somehow cheapening something that is special to them. Or maybe (as I stated above) they’re just elitist snobs who get off on dissing other people without having to face the consequences of it.
For whatever reason, some Trek fans (and I’ll state here that they are an extreme minority, thank God) have no problem putting aside the higher ideals set forth by that TV show in order to take a cheap shot at someone else. Be assured, however, that their words can only hurt you as much as you let them. If you believe in what you’re doing with “Phase II,” if you have confidence that you’re creating a product that does Trek proud, then the ill-conceived words of a few internet parasites will mean nothing. Continue doing what you love doing and find strength from those of us who support you. Don’t allow their mean-spiritedness cloud your vision. They’re really not worth all that trouble.
All power to the shields, Mr. Cawley. Warp speed full ahead.
James Cawley-
chin up, mate.
Any Star Trek fan would love ta’ do what yer doin’! Seems ST fans like ta’ sit in tha capatin’s chair… many even like ta’ be tha’ Monday Mornin’ Quartarrrback.. My experience from this site shows me how very particular ST fans can be… but that’s no excuse ta’ be rude. Be yerself no matter how many coconuts get chucked at ye’. Have fun doin’ what so many of us would love ta’ do ourselves- ta’ actually be in our own Trek epsiodes and be taken seriously by fellow fans fur our labour o’ love.
CmdrR-
when yer ship comes in and ye’ be rich, remember ta’ contribute generously ta’ tha’ “BND Bail Money Fund.” Besides cash, I also accept live raccoons.
Arrrrrr…
Buckaroohawk
BRAVO!! We don’t hear much from you these days, but you can still knock one out of the park when the mood strikes you! Congrats!!
Mr. Cawley,
A little advice here-let the comments slide off of you!
Being in the position I have been in, I have been thrown my share of insults and second guessing. When you do something that is in the spotlight you’ll have your share of supporters and detractors. It’s all part of the game. You just let the people have their say whether it be nasty, or supportive.
I am willing to guess that you have seen a fair share of people thanking you for your work on New Voyages-and rightfully so. But you must realize that you have accomplished something that many have so long dreamed of-siting in the captain’s chair.
You have used your past work experiences to better yourself and brought enjoyment to a lot of fans out there. Is it really worth letting a few wanna-bes get the best of you? I seriously doubt it.
Mr. Cawley, it is my sincere belief that your success at New Voyages is in some small part a reason why there is a new movie coming out in May. If you would have put all that hard work and it failed, I doubt we’d be where we are today.
Bask in your success. Don’t let the bastards get you down!
Pine hasn’t been seen much, I know, but it be a testament in favor o’ tha’ bonny Starry Trek fans ta’ turn this thread about big-screen Pine inta’ support fur Mr. Cawley’s private efforts as Captain Kirk.
#46. James Cawley
Great minds think alike. I said almost the same thing as Buckaroohawk (#71) in the Chat room to my friends who were annoyed by yet another mindless attack.
“…So think before you type.”
May I quote a famous line from a treasured movie of old…
“…if I only had a brain…”
James, they can’t think before they type. It’s physically impossible to think if you don’t have a brain. Console yourself with the knowledge that you are a better human being than they are and let success be the best revenge.
A fan.
kg
Mr.Cawley. Don’t listen to the idiots. I am in awe of what you’ve accomplished and I very much appreciate every thing you’ve done and look forward to more. Trust us on this… and I know I speak for a lot of fans, those insults are very much in the minority.
#23 and #24 OM
Just read that now. Very clever!
:-)
kg
…Otay, kids, enough ass-kissing for tonight. You’ll give James a Shatner-level ego :-P
OM
Is that humanly possible?
#61. Thomas
I am a hardcore Trek fan and I’d rather not be lumped in with them. (But I do agree with what you’re saying.)
However, I guess anyone can be a Trek fan. It’s just like, anyone can become a lawyer or a officer of the law — that doesn’t automatically make them a person of integrity. We carry our character into our profession. That could be good or bad. So just because some people profess to be Trek fans doesn’t mean they automatically become good people.
‘Nuff said.
Personally I can’t wait to see Pine (et al). I hope for his sake that he does well. Look what happened to Geraldo Rivera after opening the supposed Al Capone vault. He kinda disappeared from the radar screen after that. How embarrassing. All that build-up for an empty vault. Unfortunately he’ll probably be remembered for that one instead of all the other stuff he’s done. As a matter of fact, I can’t remember what else he’s done. (Poor guy.) Anyway, we’ll just have to trust J. J.
I’m still excited about seeing this movie.
kg
#79
Well, depending on the ass, sometimes there cannot be enough kissing of it. But with all due respect to Mr. James Tiberius Kirk Cawley, I will admit that even though he’s a cool Trek dude with newfound legit cred, I’ll leave it at the “good on ya’ mate” level.
So I shall graciously accept your derrier smooches in his stead.
#82. THX
Is it as smooth as an Android’s bottom?
kg
THX, you crack me up!
Katie, off to 69 forward for your answer.
Harry, I’ll not be the butt of another of your barbs.
Glad Pine isn’t in Shanttner -ville but also think most Trek fans can live with someone other then Shat playing Kirk…you do great work Mr.Cawley. don’t let the mad fans get to ya!
I honestly can’t understand a word he says.
81. Katie G.,
I did not attempt or mean to unfairly lump you in with anyone whom you would not want to associate. I was suggesting that there are those who would lash out at anyone who would question or suggest anything about Trek that didn’t meet their rigid approval, at the same time compromising the very principles on which Trek is based. Abandoning the concepts of tolerance and understanding, in the name of “defending the faith”, as it were. I would not make such a suggestion about you since I honestly don’t really know you beyond the fact that you like Trek.
What is it about Star Trek that attracts people who are emotionally immature and rude to others? I mean, I have been around this quadrant of the galaxy for a long time and have been to quite a few conventions since the 70’s. The majority of the people I have met are wonderful. However, there is that element out there that gives us all a bad name sometimes. You know who I’m talking about. You can spot them from across the lobby and you just want to cringe. I don’t want to sound snooty but when I’m in line for the registration table and there is some “fan” in front of me that’s stinking up the whole hotel and has never owned a toothbrush, I’m left asking myself “is our shared love of ST lower me to his level or I do elevate him to mine or do we meet somewhere in the middle?” In any case I’m just hoping he doesn’t turn around and want to hold my Diamond Select phaser or worse yet, engage in a conversation.
Now I’m depressed *sigh*
My point to all his is that whoever made the rude comment regarding Cawley’s portrayal of Kirk is most likely the sort of person I described above.
So much has been said here by various posters regarding how much they like the work that James and his team do at New Voyages/Phase II
I don’t think that there is anything that I can add except that I am extremely envious of what PII has been able to do i.e. “Live the dream” But not, I hasten to add, in a negative way. I hope James and his crew are around for many years to come.
This is one long time ST fan that thinks Phase II is everything that the original Star Trek could have been if it had gone beyond a third season.
James, I hope you have been able to see that there is a lot more positive feeling toward what you do on Phase II than not. It is just that, generally, people will more readily criticise than praise. I don’t even think that poster #5 Darth Quixote is a Star Trek fan, just someone that likes to fling insults on a board, because they would never have the guts to do it to somebody in real life.
The way you put yourself out there in the public eye, doing what you do, takes a lot of courage. I certainly don’t think I could do it.
I tip my hat to you, sir.
JC™,
I know that I am a difficult commisseration.
In any event, I’m with you, no matter what.
I’m going full-on KOJAK™ right here, right now, for you… man.
Who loves you, baybeeeeeeeeee?
Keep doing what you do. PLEASE. Ignore any other of the bull to the shizz.
THE WOMEN!!
=h=
- You know, really what Mr. Shatner did was very specific and very unique to him. -
Yep, and that’s exactly what made Kirk so specific and very unique. Pine is right – he’ll never make it to Shatnerville.
Kirk is Shatner. Fortunately for Mr Shatner’s career, Shatner isn’t Kirk, but this is the piece of casting that I am the most apprehensive about. Shatner never got the credit he deserved as Kirk. His impeccable, rolling judgement as to where the line between integrity and parody is, made and re-made on a scene-by-scene basis, is one of the major reasons for Star Trek’s success.
We underrate Shatner’s achievement if we assume that playing Kirk is easy. It isn’t, like playing any unashamed hero – it’s hard. (Shatner’s experience as Henry V probably helped him here, that’s a part that requires unrestrained heroism in an odd context, and a lot of actors muff it because they try to make it too complex.)
That said, I really like James Cawley’s Kirk – I know he’s been criticized by some, but I think he totally gets the character, when I remember ‘World Enough and Time’ I don’t remember Cawley, I remember Kirk – so maybe I’m fretting over nothing.
Oh, FYI – I didn’t notice James Cawley was actually on this thread when I wrote the above. I wasn’t crawling.. : )
#69, thanks for the links to Chris Pines acting. I think it’s well worth a look at the first clip (from Princess diaries2), it may well alleviate some of your worries because it looks to me like he is going to be a very good Kirk, in fact dare I say it, his style and delivery is very….shantneresque.
Mr. Cawley,
Just remember that these kinds of pople were shouting at passers by in the street from the safety of a shopping cart before the internet was invented.
The labour of love you put into New Voyages is there for all to see, and it’s appreciated.
By the way, I love a good Elvis impersonator. I’ll have to look you up next time I’m in the states.
#93: I don’t think anyone would ever assume that playing the central role of _anything_ is easy (if I’ve missed those posts, I’m grateful). Whoever sits in that center seat has to carry the show on his shoulders at many points in the story, and that’s a hell of a job for an actor.
Shatner created Jim Kirk to a great degree – probably to a greater degree than any one of the show’s writers and to a greater degree than Roddenberry – and it was his acting that made Kirk as memorable as he is.
But I think it’s true that – given an actor with the chops and charisma to shoulder it – the role of Kirk has a lot more latitude in it for alternate interpretations that don’t dishonor the original, making it a role much easier to cast (not to play – to cast) than Bones or Spock. Obviously, the purists will never accept any Kirk but the true Kirk, and I respect that, but beyond purism, I think Kirk is the most accomadating of the trinity to an actor’s own personal spin.
It’s hard to find scenes without some sweet music behind it, but this Deleted Scene…
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3850383929957724261
.. shows Pine in something resembling a Kirk the player scene. I think he does have something of the Shat in his delivery, to be honest. At least, he has that confident look about him.
@ James Cawley:
A bit late, but just in case you’re still reading.
As much as I enjoy your New Voyages work (and yes, in the early eps I did struggle to get past your hair!) your finest hour for me was when you portrayed Mackenzie Calhoun in Hidden Frontier. For me you nailed the character totally. You were absolutely, spot on, exactly as I pictured Calhoun in my head when reading Peter David’s work.
I don’t suppose there’s any chance of you teaming up with some other fanfilm productions and doing some New Frontier work, is there?
Hi James (46)
Sadly there’s a lot of negativity here lately and I’ll be the first to admit that there have been occasions where even I’ve got caught up in the bitching frenzies that can break out here!
The last few days I’ve got excessively frustrated round here with one or two people’s attitudes, so I’m now going to disappear for a week to cool off.
Without question, the NV/Phase II stuff is improving all the time – and I’ll admit that I was mean about them once or twice in the early days of this site, before I got involved in the semi-pro film scene.
And I remember as a child in the early 1980s how frustrated I was that the set designs and costumes in the Star Trek movies weren’t like those of the TV show, so it’s nice to see stories set on the version of the ship I always loved. And, indeed, I’m really looking forward to seeing the 21st century updates of all those designs and characters!
I think I speak for most of us here when I wish you God-speed and good luck with your series! :)
Hear! Hear! Jim Smith! I haven’t seen enough of Mr. Cawley’s work to criticize or judge, but I believe that his heart is in the right place in all his Trek efforts, and it sounds like he has pleased and earned the gratitude of many Trek fans.
As for Pine’s upcoming performance, we’ll have to wait and see. I find the term “Shatnerville” a little dismissive.
People pick on Shatner way too much and it irks me. Say what you will about him, but he has given us performances that shaped one of the most legendary and iconic characters of the golden age of television and beyond. There would be no upcoming “XI” without the classic performances and hard work that he and his castmates brought to these roles over forty years ago.
I am old enough to have watched Trek as a little boy during its original NBC run. I was devastated to hear it was cancelled — ironically during the same summer when humankind first walked on the moon. I just didn’t understand how grownups had such lack of vision. I still don’t — which is especially puzzling since I now supposedly am one.
Trek, to me as a young and idealistic boy, pointed the way directly the destiny that humankind was created for: exploration of this vast, amazing universe. I am grateful to this show, Mr. Roddenberry, Mr. Shatner et al., for the amazing creation they gave us forty years ago and that is still going strong today.
Regardless of what anyone says of these individuals and their MEDIA-hyped-bloated-exploited personalities (and please don’t buy everything you read about them in print or see on Hollywood tabloid shows, folks — bad press and gossip aren’t researched for facts and truth: they’re generated to garner ratings and sell magazines), they all contributed as professional artists to creating a true rarity: a classic, timeless masterpiece of a TV show when television was in its relative infancy. And they proved with some of the series finest episodes, that this medium could at times produce timeless, thought-provoking, heart-lifting, gut-wrenching, lasting art.
I wondering how Pine’s Kirk will turn out. Of course, a Shatner parody would be silly, and, of course, each actor has his own style. But it’s still supposed to be the same person, James Kirk, isn’t it? If Pine’s performance is too different (taking into account that Kirk will be younger), then the new flavor they’re all talking about bringing to the movie, will turn into reimagination. But I trust Chris Pine will get it right, he’s a talented actor.
@ James Cawley: 100% support to you and your work from me!
Mr. Cawley gets to do what i always pretended to do as a kid. He gets to BE JIM KIRK!
(and his bridge isn’t an old coffee table, some folding chairs and a recliner.)
Mr. Cawley,
I, for one, appreciate the work that you and your gallant crew do and then put your labor of love FREE for all the world to see. Especially considering this all comes out of your pocket (including the donations and kindness of others). These people who complain (and almost always can not put up anything better or anything AT ALL) have a lot of nerve to be making comments as if they know better. I, thank you, for keeping TREK rocking!
Darth Quixote and other so-call ‘purists’ : Get over yourselves and keep your useless comments to yourselves. You guys don’t like it, fine. But to reduce yourselves to insulting people you don’t even know when they are sharing their labor of love is just simply childish. Please. And of course, if you can do better, then do it and ’show us how’s it’s done’. Or else, to paraphrase my favorite wrestler:
“Know your role and SHUT YOUR MOUTH!
Phase II; Farragut; Exeter; Hidden Frontier; Intrepid: KEEP ON TREKKING!
I hope JC has been reading all these positive comments….
ODE TO SHATNER-VILLE
Where else can a man overact but also thrill?
Oh Oh Shatner-Ville
Tell me a place that you can have more fun then a pill?
Oh Oh Shatner-Ville
Please Please keep Pine off the grill!
Oh Oh Shatner-Ville
He will please you I’m sure until you can get back to
Oh Oh Shatner-Ville
106-
sounds like a Neil Diamond tune…
Wastin’ away again in William Shatner-ville,
Lookin’s for my lost Romulan ale.
Some people think that William Shatner’s to blame,
But I know [marimba lick] that the film won’t fail.
I can’t add much to the awesome show of support of Mr. Cawley’s performance except to say that when I’m watching Phase II I totally forget that it’s a different actor – it’s 100% JTK on the screen.
IMO this is great news. Kirk was always going to be the hardest character to cast, as the character IS Shatner and anything else is just a parody (With respect to James Crawley of course, ive never seen his work, but i am open-minded) When I heard that Chris Pine had been cast, i immediately thought WHO?? but after reading his comments and watching some of his acting I think he could be an inspired choice.
I don’t want an actor that’s going to “do an shatner” and replicate every single mannerism and of course the famous damatic… pauses, I want a young James T Kirk, arrogant, cocky abit of a chauvinistic pig, but beaming with confidence. I think that its important to note, as some people have mentioned above, that the Kirk we saw in TOS was not the same as Shatner’s later portrayal of Kirk in the movies, it was like Kirk had mellowed abit and grown wiser.
Therefore its only logical to assume that a younger Kirk would be more cocky, more confident and more likely to slip up and make mistakes (alla Kobyashi Maru) and therefore he has to cheat to get his way, (kind of reminds me a little bit of Picards young ginger friend in ‘Tapestry’) Picard himself is a great example of my point, he is an older man, seasoned and mature, yet he was abit of a cocky ruffian in his youth. The Kirk we see in TOS will have started to mature and would have started to create his own mannerisms and character traits due to this maturity and responsibility in command, yet we also see his younger brash and cocky side still shining through. I expect Pine to be a real Jerk and to be in trouble with Starfleet and certain women alot. He will not be Shatner’s Kirk and will have his own mannerisms.
Saying that, Pine is alot like Shatner in his delivery and I can see a real cocky, confident glint in his eye. I’m sure fans will be pleasantly surprised with his performance.
Cawley is a little kid playing Star Trek in his backyard. Shatner , and now Pine are official Kirk’s.
#11 – me too; a house in Shatnerville would be great. Maybe we can get there in the USS SPOCK’S TIME SHIP.
I still do a Shatner action walk when I come down a flight of stairs.
Pine has a strange way of speaking.
Mr. Cawley, I know, first-hand, that when you put your heart and soul into something you love dearly, and then have to hear some people mock you for it, it is very painful. But I think you can rest assured that those mockers are in the minority, and they do not affect the opinions of the rest of us. Certainly, I cannot speak for everyone, but I think (based on many of the posts above) the majority of Trek fans love you, and appreciate you – and your team – for everything you have done in keeping the spirit of TOS going. I have seen your work and I’ve enjoyed it, and I have nothing but respect and admiration for all of you at Phase II. I hope all of these positive posts will help to heal that pain. You don’t deserve to have all of that mean-spirited-ness laid on you.
To those who do not care for Phase II, I urge you to at least live up to the ideals of what Star Trek represents, and act a bit more civil.
#46. James you are right. there are some people who just don’t get it. I have seel all of the new voyages episodes and i think you have done a great job. Im long time trek fan and while im only 39 I have always loved trek since I was a kid. So james you keep up the good work and forget about what some of these jerks say. Oh. Live long and prosper.
#46. James Cawley
We have had lots of “Pine is blue eyed” “I don’t want Spock to go around eating brains” and “I don’t want Scottie to be a clown”.
They are just angry because Shatner isn’t 30 years old anymore and go against anyone they can target in the process.
I’m anxious to watch your Kirk do more things in Phase II, because the guest stars have taken most of the screentime so far!
Oh!, and see you in Sevilla soon!!!
Speaking as a former actor and a trek fan- through what I’m reading, I’m growing more and more confident everyday that these actors truly have a firm grasp of these characters and, as many others have said, I cannot wait to to see this film. Where’s a flux capacitor and a Delorean when you need one!!
#88. Thomas
Oops. Thomas, did I forget to put the smiley-face thingy after that statement? Sorry. I was not offended but thanks for the gentle reply. I know what you mean. (And you were addressing your comment to James so I should have minded my own business.)
:-)
Wasn’t upset. Ask the guys on the chat thread. Really! It was a bad joke and I should be more careful because you do not know me like some of the posters here do.
I totally agree with your comment and realize that you weren’t disparaging us. I don’t know why these people are so angry but they are. It does make me a little reticent about mentioning that I’m a Trekker. Oh well. Maybe the good ones can restore the honour of the name!
Have a great day, Thomas!
kg
Galaxy Quest lampooned us just right. Every little trekker trait they picked on perfectly… and we deserved it.
When watching the various videos of Pine acting, I definitely do see some Shatnerisms here and there, which I’m sure were unintended or subconscious. But actually playing Kirk he might throw them in more. I think we’ll be pleased.
Mr. Cawley — please, you owe no one an apology!!!!
You and your crew do a fantastic job with Next Voyages/Phase II.
Your passion for TOS is simply amazing!
You and the efforts of your crew, are not only appreciated,
But I also say want to say thanks for keeping the spirit of TOS — TOTALLY ALIVE!!!
Why have real second rate actors when you could have Shatner and Nimoy doing the real voices, with all CGI young bodies, everything computer generated, virtual actors…
sorry guys its called animation and disney has been doing it since the 30’s
Now they have reached the point where animation cannot be distiguished from real humans, plus the acting can be better, refined to a fraction of a second in timing.
As you might suspect, I am an animator.
:-)
Shatnerville? Isn’t that a Jimmy Buffet song? Speaking of music. . .
Why can’t we think of Pine as doing a “cover” of Kirk? Or JJ Abrams as making a “cover” of Star Trek? Music fans are accustomed to hearing re-vamps of their favorite tunes by their favorite bands; it allows them to hear it in a new way. Why can’t Trekkers/ies/ettes be the same?
No, Pine isn’t Shatner. But that doesn’t mean he can’t make a fine Kirk. \
And I like James Cawley.
#121. I love animated films, but they’re different. It’s all scripted. You miss out on the brilliant off-the-cuff moments in live-action filmmking – the unexpected (or even mistaken) look on an actor’s face.
#121—-With all due respect to your craft, it’s just is not the same, and it is very distinguishable from live action film.
Pay close attention to how the new Star Wars film does at the box office, and compare those numbers to what the live action SW films (even the poor ones) have done.
It will not even be close.
With that said, I would be all for animated Trek set during the TOS era, and having Shatner and Nimoy voicing those original characters would be fun (like TAS but better)—but I wouldn’t even consider putting such a production in the same category as live action Star Trek.
I would much rather see new actors bringing these iconic characters back to life. I welcome another actor’s take on Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, etc.
Some people think that the original actors are bigger than their characters, but not me.
I do not think Pine should do a complete Shatner impression. And impression is just a characterized performance. It’s usually done in a way that exaggerates the person. It’s kind of like those cartoons with the big heads and small bodies. I have seen people do impressions of Jack Nicholson or Jay Leno and while you can tell who they are doing an impersonation of, it usually wouldn’t fool anyone on the phone or on the street. Because it’s exagerated.
Then there are actors who do a suppurb job at acting the part. It’s like Jamie Fox as Ray Charles. I didn’t think he was doing an impression. He was acting the part of Ray Charles and he did it quite well. It wasn’t funny. It was dead on.
If Pine does some of Shatner’s subtle mannorisms and what not–a pause here a “,misser Spock” there– I think that would be cool. But he shoudn’t do Shatner from the Origianl show exactly. Hell, even Shatner doesn’t do his over the top stage actor acting in films and T.V. now like he did on the original Star Trek.
I stopped in Shatner-ville once on my way up North. Nice bathrooms. What? I had to take a shat.
#125—-”It’s usually done in a way that exaggerates the person. It’s kind of like those cartoons with the big heads and small bodies.”
That’s a caricature. Not all “impressions” have such a quality about them.
“Then there are actors who do a (supurb) job at acting the part. It’s like Jamie Fox as Ray Charles. I didn’t think he was doing an impression. He was acting the part of Ray Charles and he did it quite well. It wasn’t funny. It was dead on.”
The difference is, Ray Charles was a real person. James Kirk is a fictional character.
Now, if Chris Pine were cast to play William Shatner, then you could look for some of the same characteristics of Foxx’s performance in Ray. But he isn’t. He is cast to play James Kirk.
James Kirk is a natural leader. He is a passionate man. He has confidence and a brash presence, bordering on arrogance (with a swagger to boot). His confidence in himself is equaled only by the confidence those under his command have in their captain and the loyalty he shows to them. He has a knack for solving problems with his fists as well as his mind and charisma, not to mention the occasional flirtation– or even seduction. He is at his best only when tempered by the counsel of his two most important friends—Mr. Spock and Dr. McCoy.
With that in mind, those tempering relationships with Spock and Bones will not be completely developed during the time in which Pine is portraying him, and we are likely to see a James T. Kirk who has yet to mature into the man we know as Starfleet’s greatest hero.
This is the man that Chris Pine has been cast to play. It has nothing to do with mannerisms, theatrical dramatic pauses, or melodramatic monologues. Chris Pine’s task is to make such a character come to life for a new generation—to make JTK believable for people who likely were not even born the last time William Shatner donned a Starfleet uniform (I know it’s crazy, but think about it).
PINE will be FINE!
Pine’s no sap. His performance will be pitch-perfect, so we shouldn’t needle him from now ’til Christmas.
“But why?”
#129—”But why?”
lol.
Just seen some of the Chris Pine youtube clips and, my God he sorta sounds like a young Shatner!!! Even the mannersms seem like a young William Shatner when he was still a serious actor, and not haming it up as in later seasons/films. Prior to seeing those clips, and just seeing stills, I couldn’t really see any Shatner in Pine. But now he seems like an obvious choice – I think the good cap’n is in very safe hands!
And Mr Crawley, I have only seen two episodes of New Vogaes bt have been STUNNED by the work that has gone into them – it’s much appreciated by thousands of fans. Part of me wishes they’d NEVER started Star Trek films then we could have had another… who knows…. many years of classic trek to watch weekly. Yours is the next best thing – you’ve totally re-captured the feel and the SPIRIT of the original. Yours has the heart, whereas many of the spin offs of the last 15+ years kinda lost their (Roddenberry) way.
Here’s to you mate!
- Mugsy
TOS was NOT “The William Shatner Show”. I’m glad that Pine is doing his own version of Kirk within the confines of the character’s description. Any attempt to mimic Shatner would reduce the film to farce and parody.
Chris Pine: Tremor Brothers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrv7A0adWuQ
Dang Funny
First! I think Pine’ll be great.
I submit this on the legit part of Trekmovie.com as I feel it is relevant to the topic.
Shatnerville
Livin’ on Plomeek
Learnin’ Klingon speak
All the Starfleeters are startin’ to toil
There’s a new movie
This Pine kids a smoothy
But bein’ left out is makin’ me boil
Wastin’ away again in Shatnerville
Lookin’ for my trip on Priceline.com
Some people say that I’m Denny Crane
But I know
That my name’s T.J.
#132—-”TOS was NOT ‘The William Shatner Show’. ”
Very true. In fact, as important as Kirk was to the dynamics of the show, he wasn’t even its most interesting character. That distinction belongs to Spock, IMO.
Kirk was the same guy (basically) that you could see on any Western you tuned into—only in a different setting. Shatner could just as easily been portraying the town sheriff and given you the same scrupulous hero (albeit with a weakness for the ladies) with a badge and a revolver instead of a gold shirt and a phaser.
Spock, on the other hand, gave us something very different and, for lack of a better term, “fascinating”…
Don’t get me wrong, Shatner was fantastic as the much needed alpha-male leader and the glue that held Star Trek’s “Big Three” together, but it was Spock who brought that “out of the box” element to the show. I cannot thank the likes of D.C. Fontana enough for the depth provided to that character, and the impact he had upon me as a child.
Ironically, as a Marine officer and a self-admitted type-A personality, I probably patterned myself after Kirk more than I did Spock, but it was Spock who drew me into Trek and wouldn’t let go. I think we have all struggled to fit in somewhere, and even possibly struggled within ourselves to deny who we are at some point. For Spock, it was the most elemental of things which we all take for granted—human.
If it had been Kirk in that chamber at the end of TWOK , I can hardly imagine actually shedding a tear in that theater back in ‘82. But it wasn’t….It was Spock. That’s what made that scene so powerful.
Alot of people won’t agree with this (and I don’t care), but IMO, there are a dozen guys you’ve never heard of who could portray Kirk and do a pretty good job. However, I think it is a great deal more difficult to do with the character of Spock what Mr. Nimoy did for so many years…
I don’t doubt the casting of Chris Pine for one second. The self-proclaimed “Supreme Court” of STXI obviously saw something in Pine that they wanted in their take of JTK, and I guarantee you it had nothing to do with how well he could impersonate Bill Shatner—and that’s a good thing…
Didn’t The Shat have some say in who was replacing him as Kirk anyway?? I seem to recall a contractual agreement??
#132 “Any attempt to mimic Shatner would reduce the film to farce and parody.”
Wrong…SOME attempt…like the “Shatner walk” that Pine has apparently mastered, according to his costars, helps sell the fact that this IS the younger version of the same “Kirk” that acted opposite Leonard Nimoy’s SPock in 1966. Nothing wrong with that.
#137—-Given the fact that Shatner had to be told of this project (and the fact that he wasn’t in it) through his friend Leonard Nimoy in a telephone conversation, that seems unlikely.
#138—Probably, except that they called it the “Kirk walk”, and it was Shatner acting opposite Nimoy in 1965’s “WNMHGB”, not Kirk acting opposite Spock.
It seems perfectly natural that, in looking at Kirk as a written character, the director would conclude that he should have a swagger. I don’t think that is what #132 meant.
I’m glad to be getting a new Kirk. Shatner got so egotistical that I started to dislike the character he portrayed. Hopefully Pine will keep his ego in check so I can like the character Kirk again.
#136 — I agree with your post.
#137+139 I seem to remember Bill and Lisabeth looking at Chris Pine’s CV on shatnervision, I would assume they got hold of it because of the contract?
#136 “If it had been Kirk in that chamber at the end of TWOK , I can hardly imagine actually shedding a tear in that theater back in ‘82. But it wasn’t….It was Spock.”
I had never thought of that. That is a fascinating thought. I think if Spock uncharacteristically showed some kind of emotion when Kirk dies, then I think I would have shed a tear. That scene in TWOK was powerful for me because of Kirk’s reaction to seeing and realising that there is nothing he can do to help Spock. It wasn’t just the fact that Spock died.
There is a novel called “Entropy” and in it, something happens to Kirk and I did very nearly cry. But then, that last scene in unification didn’t do much for me…hmmm. I think it would move me if they were both there and something happened to one of them. Unification wasn’t about Kirk and Spock. Maybe that’s why i wasn’t moved that much.
For me it wasn’t any one of them, it was the relationship that the characters shared that really got me hooked. They were all so different and yet shared that wonderful relationship and that’s what I liked.
#109 Well Said!
#112 So does Shatner
It’s nice to read a bunch of stuff about Shatner’s Kirk that is not pure Shat-bashing as usual. I sometimes feel like I’m the ONLY Shatner fan in the galaxy. Even most Trek actors bash him. Most of the time everyone bags on him badly, but now that your TOS captain is replaced, you actually fear that you’ll miss him, or that Pine will screw it up. We never apreciate what we’ve got until it’s gone (or re-cast).
;-)
I support att least 17 minutes of the film to be left to dramatic pauses …
>That scene in TWOK was powerful for me because of Kirk’s reaction to seeing and realising that there is nothing he can do to help Spock. It wasn’t just the fact that Spock died.
TK –YES! For me too. It was the Kirk/Spock relationship that drew me into Trek and kept me there. Kirk’s utter devastation at realizing that Spock is dying — he can barely even talk — just slays me every time I see it. Spock’s acknowledgement of their friendship as he’s dying. Wow. I could get teary eyed just thinking about it. Spock is my favorite character however a lot of what makes him so is the relationship with Kirk and the chemistry between Nimoy and Shatner.
I also really loved ENTROPY. A very powerful novel.
Starfleetmom — you aren’t alone. I’m a Shatner fan from childhood.
NO 22: ‘What Zoe did with Uhura, she really expanded on a role that I think people will be really surprised and really excited’. I hope this means Uhura’s a major character.
I certainly hope not: she is not supposed to be a major character. TOS is, essentially, about three characters. Uhura – like Sulu, Chekov, etc – is not one of these. As communications officer, it will, naturally, be difficult for her role to be ‘really expanded’. I suspect that this means that she is more heavily involved in away-missions. Hopefully she is portrayed as an intelligent, moral person, and not just as someone who can ‘kick butt as well as the boys’. I.e., we can, I hope, have a strong female character, without overtly masculising her. This would reverse the recent trend in Hollywood. I like my characters, male or female, to use their brains, not their brawn. That is true liberation.
I know we have had very little information about this new film, which is a long way a way; however, I have some growing concerns. Chief among these is that, since I was a child, Capt. Kirk and William Shatner have been inextricably linked. Perhaps, for the younger generation, seeing a new guy playing the role is not such a big issue. I will go and see this movie; and, naturally, I hope it does well. If it does not, however, it will not be a disaster. Let us not forget that we have already had six television series and ten movies. That’s enough for anybody, surely? Also, the last few movies and series have been disappointing. Perhaps Jonathan Frakes is correct when he says that Trek has just run its course…
#142 You are not the only Shatner fan in the galaxy. There are only a few of us who will boldly go far enough (to the galactic barrier, if necessary) to admit it.
Shatner will always be the iconic Kirk and his fellow cast-mates the actors most associated with the TOS roles — think Connery’s Bond, Sellers’s Clouseau.
Other actors may give their own interpretations to these roles, but many of these memorable characters were breathed into life because of the nuanced understanding of the character motivations and complexities by truly talented thespians who made the roles classic. For example, I am ordinarily something of a fan of Steve Martin — a very talented performer. But Mr. Sellers was so long associated with the Clouseau role that is harder to accept Mr. Martin’s take. It’s not that he’s not talented, of course. It’s just that he has a very tough act to follow.
So does Mr. Pine (and his fellow castmates). But I wish him success with the role. I believe that Mr. Shatner does also. So let’s all see about welcoming these new interpretations by these new performers with open minds and hearts, even as we cherish and celebrate the original stars of TOS and its creative team that have made this mythos so compelling and enduring for nearly half a century.
Nichelle Nichols once said that Nicholas Meyer told them all on the set of TWOK that he was in awe of being in the midst of “living legends.” Let’s be grateful to them all for making the legend live on in a new incarnation next summer.
#69 Jabba the Hut – thanks for the posted links! I grew a definite smile watching them. Pine looks like an awesome choice for Kirk. Spectacular. He has Kirk in him for sure. I love it!
5. Darth Quixote
Lighten up around here. If possible, an apology should be offered.
121. bo-ring
Don’t go ‘Corby’ on us. TOS was great at stirring deep emotions.
I can’t see a completely animated movie ever achieving that.
I think JJ knows Shatner was great as Kirk (period.) But that does not mean another actor can’t portray the character as well. This is a big budget movie here. I am sure that this crital casting has been handled nicely. Plus, I think it was a wise decision to focus on Spock too. Is it agreed that this is a ‘Spock centric’ movie?
My consolation to Captain Dunsel.
However, I am sure he will continue to have some excellent adventures!
GO Chris!
142
“It’s nice to read a bunch of stuff about Shatner’s Kirk that is not pure Shat-bashing as usual”.
You’re not the only Shatner fan. There are high profile people like Jason Alexander, Ben Stiller, Kevin Pollack, I believe both Mark Altman and Robert Myer Burnett, and a lowly band director from Texas named Andy Patterson. Interestingly we’re all about the same age…..Okay Alexander looks older but that’s besides the point.
I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again. Just the way I said when Arnold was running for governor, and they said they had some disparaging photos of him. I said at the time I don’t care if they show my moving images of Arnold violating the Queen mother because I love Arnold. I wouldn’t have believed it or cared. Shatner’s faults or not…..I love him too.
Shatner was very important to me as a kid and to me is a big part of Star Trek.
I still say….when Quinto raises an eyebrow are people going to say, “Oh, he’s copying Nimoy”. Of course he’s doing Nimoy a bit!
This Yelchin kid has already said he’s going to pronounce words the way Keonig’s Chekov did. I don’t think that’s a bad thing but why are’nt we questioning that then?
I still don’t understand why it’s a bad thing for Chris Pine to be imitating a bit, the character he’s playing. He SHOULD do a little of that. Just as Cawley channels a bit of it. What a silly argument. And no one can convince me otherwise.
Sounds like JJ really Nailed it !!
Chris Pine absolutely should not imitate Shatner. I can’t imagine anybody seriously making that suggestion. Get over missing Shatner already. He ain’t in the movie and Pine doesn’t need to be doing any Shatner mannerisms as any kind of “nod” or “salute” to the role and the actor.
What a stupid argument.
Hey, Anthony, do you think it would cause a meltdown if we had a poll on who had the best Kirk imitation?
Jim Carrey
Jason Alexander
(Can’t think of any more – - it’s 2:05 a.m. and I’m too tired to remember.)
kg
Hmm…….Don’t really have any strong opinions on imitators either way.
when the movie comes out you’ll see Pine everywhere.
#142
- I sometimes feel like I’m the ONLY Shatner fan in the galaxy. -
NO, it’s just that the guys who don’t like him, shout the loudest…:D
#144
- Spock is my favorite character however a lot of what makes him so is the relationship with Kirk and the chemistry between Nimoy and Shatner. -
Well said. That’s what ST means to me, too. I’ve always been a Kirk addict, however a lot of what makes him so is the relationship with Spock and the chemistry between Shatner and Nimoy. Can’t beat that kind of friendship, the emotion, the “package”.
126–
Though Kirk is not a real life character, I completely disagree. Because using that logic, one might as well cast Denzel Washinton as Captain Kirk. The new generation who have never seen Trek will not know any better. Washington is a great actor and he can play those characteristics. Or why not cast Shia Lebough? He looks nothing like Captain Kirk in anyway either, but he’s capable of acting the part.
I don’t expect large pauses and over acting. Just some of his mannorisms would be nice. And apparently some here seem to like that too. I don’t know how many comments have been made of how Pine sounded like a young Shatner in one movie. Or he had a Shatner like expression.
For me Captain Kirk was not a character like Sherlock Holmes, Dracula, Hamlet, James Bond, etc. Those characters are bigger than any actor who has played them. Captain Kirk , however, is a character who is tied to the actor who played him and has been identified as him for forty plus years. Shatner gave Kirk that third dimension. It’s similar to the character Indiana Jones. Ford is the only man who can play him. Anybody else is just a guy pretending to be. Because the truth is those characters needed those actors to breath life to them.
Captain Kirk was just a character to take the place of Chris Pike after Jeffery Hunter said he would not return to the show. The character description, at that point, was identical to what Hunter was told about Pike. That is until Shatner got the role. Hunter played a moody, pensive, dark captain–prone to beating himself up. Kirk was very different.
So, I disagree with your opinion. But it doesn’t matter because who am I? I’m not Bob….I can tell you that much.
#151
“He ain’t in the movie and Pine doesn’t need to be doing any Shatner mannerisms as any kind of “nod” or “salute” to the role and the actor.
What a stupid argument.”
Absolutely. I mean, why on earth should any actor try to bring any mannerisms to the role that might remind viewers of the version of Kirk that acted opposite Nimoy’s Spock for the last 40 years. So what if Nimoy is in this movie AS Spock. So what if they might have scenes together? Why should the actor portraying the SAME Kirk that Nimoy’s Spock served with, try and bring some believability to the scenes that just might invoke the belief that he really IS a younger version of Shatner’s Kirk? Yes, such a stupid argument.
151
“Get over missing Shatner already.”
I never said I missed him. I didn’t even say he should be in the movie. I point out again, if other actors are having so called, “nods” included in their performances of the characters they’re playing,. . . . why not Kirk’s?
As I said….the first time Quinto raises an eyebrow the way Nimoy did…..the first time we hear Yelchin say, “the enemy wessel is coming our vay” the way Keonig might have,….. or the first time McCoy says “he’s dead Jim”, let’s start a debate on that.
Excellent point Andy Patterson!
>>Can’t beat that kind of friendship, the emotion, the “package”.
We are definitely on the same page. I’ve long said that it’s Kirk & Spock that made and keep me a Trek fan. The rest is the icing on the cake.
So, who’s up for a remake of “Barbary Coast” starring Chris Pine as Agent Jeff Cable, and Zach Quinto as gambler Cash Conover?
Me, I’ll just wait for T.J.Hooker Jr. with Chris Pine as the bastard child of T.J. that he had with Heather Locklear’s Stacy Sheridan….
#155—”Captain Kirk was not a character like Sherlock Holmes, Dracula, Hamlet, James Bond, etc. Those characters are bigger than any actor who has played them. Captain Kirk , however, is a character who is tied to the actor who played him and has been identified as him for forty plus years. ”
I think many feel that way only because Shatner has thus far been the only one to portray him. Of course Kirk is currently tied to Shatner, since his face has been Shatner’s for decades. My point is, that if the Star Trek franchise is fortunate enough to last as long as the Holmes series or Superman (and that depends upon how well Pine is received, but I’ll get to that in a minute), for instance, that strict association with a single actor will likely diminish somewhat.
That is not to say that those who are old enough to remember will not always consider Shatner to be “the original Kirk”, or even their favorite. However, you must remember what this film’s primary target audience will be. Much of that target audience was not even alive the last time Shatner portrayed Kirk, so I think that sometimes we older fans have an exaggerated sense of how significant it is that these characters are being recast after being associated with those actors for such a long time.
If Paramount were to rely soley upon those of us older fans who watched TOS in its first run or early on in syndication, and stood in line on each opening day of a Star Trek release throughout the 1980’s, there is no possible way for them to justify that enormous budget. It is going to take kids to make a profit…and lots of them. How many 14 year olds will care at all how much Chris Pine is or is not like William Shatner? How many of them even know who he is without someone having had to explain it to them?
Abrams primary objective (and hence Pine’s) is to make James T. Kirk come to life for them—people like my sons and their friends. Now granted, my boys have grown used to watching their share of “guy movies” with their old man from various time periods on many a weekend afternoon outside of football season (with a healthy dose of Trek to be sure), so they are actually aware of who Bill Shatner is and that he is the original Captain Kirk. But in discussing the upcoming Star Trek movie with them, I got the impression (very early on) that they were excited to see those young faces (some they know, and some they don’t) set to play those wonderful characters. They are very much aware that this one is for them. They are not looking for canon errors, how much this one looks like that one, or what color the Enterprise bridge railing is going to be. They are looking to be entertained. They certainly could not care less whether or not Pine “went to Shatnerville”.
Now, I’m not the smartest guy in the Universe, but I am wise enough to understand that the future of the Star Trek franchise depends a great deal more upon how they react to Pine and the others than how I do…
“Captain Kirk was just a character to take the place of Chris Pike after Jeffery Hunter said he would not return to the show. The character description, at that point, was identical to what Hunter was told about Pike. That is until Shatner got the role. Hunter played a moody, pensive, dark captain–prone to beating himself up. Kirk was very different.”
That would seem to contradict much of the commentary from GR and the other production people who worked on TOS during the pilot years of 1964-65. It is my understanding that due to the reaction of the studio to the original pilot episode, “The Cage”, the role of the Captain was rethought and made into the mold of a more two-fisted action hero capable of playing out the type of scene we saw near the end of “WNMHGB” (when Kirk dispatches Mitchell on Delta Vega).
In any case, I certainly do not discount Shatner’s contribution to the role. IMO, he was perfect as Captain/Admiral/Captain Kirk from about 1965-1986. That is a pretty good run! After that, I think he started to “phone it in” a bit more, and like Connery in the Bond movies—it was time to hang it up—time for new blood. Unfortunately, it has taken a lot longer than I wished for those fantastic characters to be recast. But at any rate, I am excited, and I am sure there was a reason that Abrams chose to cast Chris Pine as Kirk.
Not the least of which his resemblance to young Shatner and his acting style. If he wasn’t interested in making this the same Kirk, he could have hired anybody.
The Spock/McCoy relationship was just as interesting and compelling as the Spock’/Kirk relationship…yet nobody is whining about their replacement actors. If the actor did a good job he created a character – the character did not create the actor. I’m very excited to see young actors again in these iconic roles. I want to see the action, the fights, the conflict, the passion and enthusiasm that youthful actors will be able to bring to these roles.
#144—”Spock is my favorite character however a lot of what makes him so is the relationship with Kirk and the chemistry between Nimoy and Shatner.”
No question. I would also say that the chemistry between Nimoy and Kelley (or Kelley and Shatner, for that matter) was equally great.
I just feel that the character of Kirk is more generic…I hate to put it like that, but what I mean is that he is the prototypical scrupulous hero. Sure, he has his demons and some characteristics which bestow upon him a level of individuality, but IMO, there are at least a dozen actors who can pull off such a character. Kirk is not really the role I would be most concerned with casting.
Spock is a much more complicated role to play, IMO.
#10: That’s exactly what I thought when I saw the movie. Pine already, even without the “Shatner walk,” has the right stuff.
#46: Some people simply have nothing better to do to make themselves feel superior. They use the defence, “This is the internet,” to back up their childishness as if it makes a difference. They’re bullies, in the strictest sense. I assume no one has actually had the balls to insult you in person.
It’s funny that someone mentioned The Princess Diaries (I didn’t read the rest of the comments so sorry if I’m being repetitive) because at first I thought that Pine was a terrible choice to play Kirk. But then I remembered The Princess Diaries (which my GF forced me to watch) and I realize just how much Pine looks like Kirk and that he seems like a very capable actor. I cannot wait for this updated version of Trek, I have a feeling it will be exactly what Trek has been missing these last many years.
#135 – THX
Hah! ‘Zactly what I was thinking. I’m glad you were inspired to write the lyrics.
Presumably, Pine didn’t have to do an impression of Shatner because it’s already written in the script:
KIRK: My … … God, Bones! … … What — have … … I done?
:D
#110: Shatner , and now Pine are official Kirk’s.
I won’t comment on your pointless and potentially insulting ‘backyard’ comments, they don’t deserve a comment.
But here’s a word on officiality. When New Voyages came out, I, too, was thinking ‘Well, this is fun, and it’s well made, but this is not real Star Trek (i.e. official)’. Then I watched how the quality of the show was increasing with each episode. Finally, watching ‘World Enough and Time’ I didn’t bother about ‘official’ or ‘fan made’ after watching for about, well, 30 seconds. This was a TOS episode! And that made me reconsider my notion of officiality. What does that mean, anyway? It means it’s produced by Paramount, who hold the rights for Star Trek. But what do I care about legalities in this respect? What if Paramount had decided to go for a complete reboot, a reimagination with sexy green-haired Mrs. Spock at the science station? This would have been, legally, official Trek, but it would also be total crap, an abandonment of canon and the Star Trek Universe as we know and love it. Well, fortunately and sanely, it didn’t come to that. It remains to be seen if the new movie is really a prequel or sort of a gentle semi-reboot. But anyway, who is more careful about canon and more respectful towards the Trek legacy? ‘Official’ Paramount or James Cawley? To me, the answer is obvious: JC. So in a non-legal sense, Phase II is much more official than Star Trek XI, it would seem, since the canon violations in that movie are foreseeable.
‘Real’ Star Trek, in my view, tries to be consistent with canon and to be faithful to Gene Roddenberry’s positive vision of the future. I don’t care who holds rights, that’s a matter of historical coincidences and money.
Oh, and by the way: In the beginning, I was somewhat skeptical about the new movie and especially whether it’s going to be a reboot still. What made me trust that the new movie will be good and that JJ Abrams is the right guy to do it was… believe it or not… JC’s comments on the dedication of JJ to Roddenberry’s vision after JC’s visit to the set. I trust his judgement because he has already proven that he understands Star Trek.
Everyone keeps forgetting… that Sandra Smith did an excellent job in 1969 of portraying James T. Kirk. She was convincing.
Pine even comes with the correct apparatus. Surely he can handle. Hell, even Jim Belushi with SNL, and Jim Carrey have done a pretty damn good Kirk.
Well, I guess it’s almost the same…
kg
WOW! I just watched the video Harry posted (#98) and I am now REALLY excited about Pine, and about this movie.
In my opinion, Chris Pine IS Kirk. He looks like Shattner, he has Shatner’s presence and confidence, and — to my complete surprise — he actually has Shatner’s voice. He could read a Kirk voice-over and you’d think it was from TOS. He really seems to have the soul of Kirk. I’m imagining him being 5 years older (the film was made 5 years ago) and he just seems absolutely perfect.
I think this film is going to be amazing!
James Cawley,
Just wanted to give you a bit of support. I’ve only seen one episode of your show but I thought you were really entertaining, charming, and had a whole lot of screen presence (something painfully lacking in most fan productions). I was impressed with the whole thing, and I actually think your Elvis background is important in your performance because it’s that kind of role: a role for a big personality. And I think you’ve got that. (After watching Pine, I think he definitely has that, too.)
You just have to bear in mind that people who write cruel comments about celebrities on the Net don’t realise the people will read it. Sadly, in this world, most people say cruel things behind others’ backs. You just have to accept that these things aren’t supposed to be a personal attack, rather, you’re reading something that wasn’t intended for you.
It is a shame, though, that Trek fans can’t be more altruistic and pure-hearted, like their heroes. Alas, Trek is only fiction!
Anyway, all the best to you and the Phase II guys :D,
Jamie
>>I just feel that the character of Kirk is more generic…I hate to put it like that, but what I mean is that he is the prototypical scrupulous hero.
I think it could have been a generic but William Shatner made it more than just the prototypical hero. He imbued the role with charm, humor and strength and of course we were lucky enough that he had that chemistry with Nimoy and DeForest (who rawked as McCoy!). Even Jimmy Doohan who hated Shatner said he WAS Captain Kirk which was high praise indeed. ;) I’m just hoping that Pine and Quinto share a chemistry because no matter how “good” they might be in their respective roles, it’s all for naught if that is missing.
First, to James Cawley: Screw the naysayers. They just wish THEY had a replica of the bridge they could play with anytime they wanted. I know I sure as hell do.
Second, SHOW US THE DAMN SHIP ALREADY!
“Hell, even Jim Belushi with SNL, and Jim Carrey have done a pretty damn good Kirk.”
That was JOHN Belushi. Even Shatner cites his take as one of the best impressions he’s seen (the other being Kevin Pollack).
Jim Carrey, on the other hand, is so over the top as to not even merit discussion.
Bringing this back to Cawley, I look at his Kirk as the parallel universe result of Hawaii Five-O inexplicably tanking after two seasons, Shatner bolting from Star Trek at the end of the third season, and Jack Lord taking over the part of Kirk.
#174 Funny … I seem to recall reading somewhere once that in addition to Lloyd Bridges, Jack Lord was another actor in consideration for the starship captain role. How lucky we were to have gotten Shatner!
#171 – agreed wholeheartedly. Pine is gonna be spectacular in this role. Until now, I never realize…..
175
“…..Jack Lord was another actor in consideration for the starship captain role. How lucky we were to have gotten Shatner!”
He was but he wanted a percentage of the show so Gene hired Shatner.
175 Is that how it went down? I read it somewhere years ago. Was it in Shatner’s “Star Trek Memories”?
Oops. I meant to type 177, not 175.
160-closettrekker
I agree that it may be possible to turn Kirk into a archatype character (actually I think he is, already. I have heard of a “Captain Kirk like pause,” It’s not Shatner who gets the mention. Kirk does.)
But it’s trickier with a character like Kirk–or any of the crew–because the actors who have been identified with them have been so for 40 plus years. I hope that Pine does use some of the Shatner/Kirk mannorisms. I’m not asking for full out impersonation.
Even with Sherlock Holmes, a character who has been around for over 100 years, people still identify Basil Rathbone as being the one. He wasn’t like the Holmes in the written stories, but the majority still seem to think of him when Holmes’ name is mentioned. Here we have Kirk who has been played and identified as Shatner and they are kind of one and the same. The character and the actor who first played him kind of was introduced the the masses at the same time. They have been together for 40 plus years. The same holds true with Han Solo and Harrison Ford. A possible cameo was mentioned for Revenge of the Sith with a young Han Solo, but they changed their minds because as Rick McCallum stated they couldn’t think of anyone who could be a young Harrison Ford–not Han Solo.
“That would seem to contradict much of the commentary from GR and the other production people who worked on TOS during the pilot years of 1964-65. It is my understanding that due to the reaction of the studio to the original pilot episode, “The Cage”, the role of the Captain was rethought and made into the mold of a more two-fisted action hero capable of playing out the type of scene we saw near the end of “WNMHGB” (when Kirk dispatches Mitchell on Delta Vega).”
The thing is the story changes depending on whose telling it, and when they say it. Jeffery Hunter, I read, was wanted back to play Pike. He didn’t have any major fist fights (just the one sword and shield fight in the Cage) because the story didn’t have that in it. They wanted the story to have more fist fights. Hunter would have done it, but he was apparently a difficult actor.
A T.V. Guide article of 15 October 1966 states that, “Before production began on the second pilot, “Where No Man Has Gone Before, ” Jeffery Hunter was dismissed by Roddenberry for behaving like God’s gift to outer space.”
Of course, I don’t know what all is true, but it seems that Roddenberry’s stories differed later than some of his earlier claims. This is not anything against Roddenberry. It’s how things work in Hollywood, where we are told that someone was let go because they couldn’t think of what to do with the character. I know that there was a fight scene in the Cage and I know that Hunter’s Pike would grab a big headed Alien and threaten to shoot a hole in his head. There was action in that pilot. Just not a lot. The character could have done it if it had been written. But Hunter was “difficult.”
Oddly enough, when I see Where No Man Has Gone Before–with the exception of the fight seen–Shatner plays Kirk different from how he would later. In fact, Shatner plays a serious, pensive Pike like Kirk.
Anyway, I hope that Pine does well, and I hope he subconsciously did do some Shatner/Kirk mannorisms. Because for me, Kirk is not like Holmes, Dracula, Bond etc. yet. Maybe Pine will be great–he was in Smokin’ Aces. Maybe the younger crowd will love it. But maybe the film makers and whatnot will make another Lost in Space–a film that was meant for the fans as well as the young crowd. No one seemed happy with that one.
178
” Is that how it went down?
Well according to Shatner it did in his latest book. I have it on CD but I believe his quote was Jack Lord wanted 50 percent of the take. I was cheap. So I was in.
And on another note…addressing Shatner’s pauses or style of acting or whatever we’re calling it this decade: You know, a lot of actors do (did) that. Adam West’s Batman was basically from the Shatner school of acting…just an octave lower. I mean, listen to him in those old shows. I saw an old western with DeForest Kelly other night…he was doing something pretty similar. Richard Basehart was doing something similar in ‘Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea’.
I hear not the cries and insults thrown at the man known as Shatner.
181 – Thanks for the info.
180 – I do remember from reading Shatner’s “Star Trek Memories” (and this is according to Shat) that Jeffrey Hunter’s wife was also making Roddenberry’s life miserable with demands that her husband could only be filmed from certain sides and angles. That was one of the reasons why the Great Bird said space-balls to having him back.
181 (again) – In space no one can you insult! But they can apparently her you scream “Khan!” Long live (and prosper) the Shat!
181 – That should read “hear you insult…”
It wasn’t unusual for the star of a show to get a certain percentage of ownership of that show. In fact, Shatner got a small percentage of Star Trek as a part of his contract (which proved useful in later years when he teamed up with Roddenberry in suing Paramount for unpaid royalties). Whether he still owns a piece of Star Trek is another topic.
Fifty percent, however, for a show that you’ve had very little part in creating, is a bit steep.
#180—”I don’t know what all is true, but it seems that Roddenberry’s stories differed later than some of his earlier claims.”
You’ll get no argument there. Roddenberry’s commentary on Star Trek was often quite “revisionist” later on in life, and there is no reason to believe that his comments about the Jeff Hunter situation would have been any different, so who knows?
As for Pine’s performance, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I just do not believe that the associations that we older fans have with the original actors and those characters will prove as significant as you think to the success or failure of this movie.
Like I said before, much of the film’s target audience was not even alive the last time Shatner portrayed James T. Kirk (or not old enough to go and see it), and it will be that demographic which most likely determines whether the film is successful or not at the box office. I think we older fans (who grew up with a young Bill Shatner as Captain Kirk) have an exaggerated sense of our own importance to the franchise at this point. If I purchase any merchandise (toys, t-shirts, cups, posters, etc.) associated with STXI other than 5 or 6 tickets and a dvd later on, it will likely be because my kids wanted it, and that means that Pine succeeded in bringing the heroic JTK to life for them—which is the biggest point in all of this.
I have no doubt that those of us who are established fans of these wonderful characters can enjoy this film too, but only if we allow ourselves to do so. I think that, ultimately, it is most important for Pine to deliver Jim Kirk’s character traits and presence among his shipmates and peers. To me, Shatner’s mannerism’s are his—not Jim Kirk’s. As much as I love TOS-era Star Trek, Kirk is just as fictional as Bond, Superman/Clark Kent, or Batman/Bruce Wayne. I think that if established fans go into the theaters looking for Shatneresque mannerisms, continuity of set designs, adherence to 1960’s costumes, detail on the ship’s hull, or too much of the like—they are likely to miss the movie!
#185
As good ol’ Bill has been the only person so far to portray good ol’ Jim, it still amazes me how you distinguish Jim’s mannerism from Bill’s. Maybe you once had the pleasure of meeting him – the “real” Jim, I mean. What else did he tell you? Green chicks aren’t really green? It’s just some strange mannerism of theirs? Just curious…;)
BTW, didn’t Nimoy invent the Vulcan salute for Spock? I mean, IRL it’s Jewish, not Vulcan. I think Quinto shouldn’t use it – it’s one of Nimoy’s mannerisms. How about another sign, something more casual, accompanied by a nonchalant “Hi there” instead of the ceremonial “Live long and prosper”?
And Scotty, wasn’t he made a Scottish character because Doohan was a great accent imitator, and his Scottish accent was picked, because it was considered the most authentic? So, the Scottish accent is primarily one of Doohan’s mannerisms he introduced to the role, and it eventually became one of the role’s most important trademarks. Stuff it – I think Pegg should have a Welsh accent for a change – I like Welsh, and the young audience wasn’t even alive when Scotty still spoke in Scottish tongue.
New approach? I’m game!
Just a thought…
The Vulcan hand salute, while thought up by Nimoy, is VULCAN, NOT JEWISH. It is now history. Why undo it? It’s Vulcan culture. Why should that change?
I’m not sure but it looks like you’re doing the same thing you’re asking Closettrekker about – - you’re “distinguishing” Nimoy’s creation as his, as opposed to “Vulcan” culture just like Closettrekker was distinguishing Shatner’s mannerisms from Kirk’s… On the Enterprise, Leonard Nimoy doesn’t exist.
Also, Scotty was Scottish. If this is a prequel, how can he suddenly be something else? The logic behind your ideas is puzzling me. They will be trying to be true to everything already established. Guess I’m in the camp that wants to see them keep it as true to the original as possible. But I won’t get nasty if they don’t. I’m just happy they’re doing this.
So…
Either you’re trying to get a “conversation” going, or… I don’t know what else.
As far as Shatner’s mannerisms being his, it is very difficult to separate the two. (I never had any conversations with Mr. Shatner so I don’t know if they’re his mannerisms or ones he manufactured to portray Capt. Kirk.) Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) those mannerisms were there from the beginning so, just as the Vulcan salute is now established, so are the personalities and mannerisms of the characters. Apparently it’s a very controversial subject but I hope that Trek fans are mature enough to agree to disagree so it stays friendly.
Anyway, it’s just my 2 quatloos’ worth.
kg
What Iowagirl is doing is illustrating absurdity by being absurd.
We all have an idea of how Kirk, Spock, et al, will act and react under certain cirsumstances. The current actors have a bit of an obligation, if they’re going to be true to those characters, to adhere to at least some of those behavioral tendencies.
#186—-”As good ol’ Bill has been the only person so far to portray good ol’ Jim, it still amazes me how you distinguish Jim’s mannerism from Bill’s. Maybe you once had the pleasure of meeting him – the “real” Jim, I mean.”
Then you are easily amazed. James T. Kirk is a fictional character, who yes, has thus far only been portrayed in canon Star Trek by William Shatner, but however Pine chooses to portray him—it will still be JTK. Are Superman’s mannerisms George Reeves’? Do Batman’s mannerisms only appear in Adam West’s portrayals? I don’t remember anyone standing up in the theater in 1978 and shouting, “That’s not Superman! His mannerisms don’t appear to be anything like George’s!”
“BTW, didn’t Nimoy invent the Vulcan salute for Spock? I mean, IRL it’s Jewish, not Vulcan. I think Quinto shouldn’t use it – it’s one of Nimoy’s mannerisms.”
You are talking about a cultural gesture which is distinctly Vulcan. It is not something that only Spock does with his hands. That isn’t even close to the same thing.
“And Scotty, wasn’t he made a Scottish character because Doohan was a great accent imitator, and his Scottish accent was picked, because it was considered the most authentic? So, the Scottish accent is primarily one of Doohan’s mannerisms he introduced to the role, and it eventually became one of the role’s most important trademarks. Stuff it – I think Pegg should have a Welsh accent for a change – I like Welsh, and the young audience wasn’t even alive when Scotty still spoke in Scottish tongue.”
Again, that is completely different. Regardless of why Scotty was written as a Scotsman, he was written that way. The region of Scotty’s birth is not a personal mannerism of James Doohan.
Shatner’s mannerisms are not a written characteristic of James Kirk. They are just some things he did during his performances which ended up on screen, and they have nothing to do with Chris Pine or the written character of James Kirk.
#188—-I agree that they should adhere to “behavioral tendencies” of estblished characters, but that is not the same as the personal mannerisms of an actor. For example, Pine can play JTK effectively without putting both hands out in front of him with open palms to drive home a point and delivering a lectural soliloquy. That would be a “personal mannerism” associated with Shatner’s portrayal of JTK.
Pine just needs to stay true to Kirk’s character traits–like confidence, honesty, loyalty, bravery, integrity, natural leadership ability, etc., etc. Those traits could also be classified as “behavioral tendencies”. None of them, however, could be called “personal mannerisms”.
Did anyone see the Shatner Price Line commercial with Shatner driving a car with someone in the back seat? Is the person in the back seat Chris Pine’s father?
##187,188
Katie, Captain Robert April answered your post for me.
Captain, thanks for that. :)
#189
- but however Pine chooses to portray him—it will still be JTK. -
No, it won‘t. All our heroes from TOS are fictional characters, written in a 2-dimensional way on paper. But this was just the scaffolding. It’s like when you hear or read about a person. And then the actors gave the characters their 3rd dimensions by means of traits, quirks, and personal mannerisms. This is how they became instantly recognizable. By that, they turned from characters, from roles outlined in a script, from mere mind games, into “real” persons and eventually friends we could relate to. That’s what they did for me. If you’re satisfied with the two dimensions, or don’t care for the unique feeling of meeting again an old friend whose peculiarities and idiosyncrasy you’ve come to cherish – there ya go.
Hmmmmmm…
Tongue-in-cheek, with a touch of sarcasm, followed with a chaser of absurdity. Fascinating…
kg
#192—I prefer to think of it as being open-minded toward a fresh approach to the character by a different actor. I will always admire and appreciate what the young William Shatner did with the character of Kirk, but I will not allow my affection for that to prevent me from enjoying new stories and adventures involving that character on screen. That approach and attitude will never make sense to me. I am perfectly capable of enjoying both actors’ takes on the character. I hope Pine is good, but his success (or failure) will have nothing to do with how much he is (or isn’t) like William Shatner. In fact, I would much prefer him to distinguish himself.
195
“I would much prefer him to distinguish himself.”
I don’t have any problem with that but you know the scenes we’re going to be talking about a year from….two, five, ten years from now, – are the scenes where, by infusing a little Shatner at times, he seemed a little like the Kirk we know. For better of worse those are the scenes we’ll discuss.
#194
Just in case your “fascinating” was aimed at my post: Thank you for this extraordinary compliment. ;)
#195
Let’s leave it at that for the rest of the weekend – enjoy! :)
^
Ok, I’ve always had problems with numbers;
It should have read:
#193…
#194…
Sorry;)
189 “Shatner’s mannerisms are not a written characteristic of James Kirk.”
Sorry, I have to disagree. I just watched DC Fontana and David Gerrold talk about how these characters were just names until the series began to progress and the writers started writing to the way the cast was performing. So in a sense, the characters were written a certain way, because that is the way the Shatner and the rest performed them.
It’s a slippery slope. Pine may do a fantastic job. But for every fantastic job there is a Steve Martin trying to play Clouseu. As did Alan Arkin. But Sellers defined the role. Shatner defined James Kirk, and for better or worse, fair or not, all subsequent portrayals of JimKirk will be judged by the benchmark set by Shatner.
#198—Fontana and Gerold aren’t speaking of “mannerisms”. Shatner and the other original actors had a great deal to do with how the characters were eventually developed, but that isn’t the same thing.
“…all subsequent portrayals of (Jim Kirk) will be judged by the benchmark set by Shatner.”
While that may be true for many of us long established fans of that character, it is not likely to be true for the target audience for this film or any of its potential sequels. Those kids sitting in the theater in May will consistent of many who were not even born the last time Shatner performed as JTK. It is absurd to believe that any significant portion of those new fans will judge Pine’s performance against Shatner’s Kirk, any more than new fans of Bond are comparing Craig to Connery.
Those of us who have long been established fans of TOS-era Star Trek often have an exaggerated sense of our importance to the future of the franchise. It is people like my kids and yours who will determine how successful this film and any others will be. There aren’t many adolescents and young teenagers who will care in the least about how similar Pine’s mannerisms are to Shatner’s. If they purchase a ticket, they will only care about being entertained. If it is a good movie, they will like it. It it isn’t, they will not. The opinions of those of us 30-60 year old Trekkies who grew up on Shatner/Nimoy/Kelley might be loud, but in the long run, will be largely irrelevant to the future of this franchise. It is arrogant and rather naive, IMO, to contend otherwise…
199
“Those of us who have long been established fans of TOS-era Star Trek often have an exaggerated sense of our importance to the future of the franchise.”
After having been on this world a few years, and after years of apologizing for my likes and dislikes and sensibilities; I’ve come to believe that diminishing and discounting my views is the same as discounting others opinions too. I think my deep affection and vision of things is just as important as the group buying Hanna Montana tickets or younger. I also think younger generations are smart enough to know when an obvious nod is being given in a performance.
Closettrekker,
You have opened my eyes with your post. I am an “original” Trek fan growing up with the syndication in the 70’s. I’ve honestly never considered the fact that I have felt “entitled” to Trek the way I want it to be. I’ve always had a preconceived notion about the characters and the way they should be played.
In my world, an always 33 year old Shatner would be kicking alien ass and saving the Federation from miscreants and scofflaws.
Let’s face it…a new take on the character is required. Bring on Mr. Abrams,Orci,Kurtzman et al.
Thank you for your efforts and love for bringing such an iconic franchise back to life!
#196. Iowagirl
“Just in case your “fascinating” was aimed at my post: Thank you for this extraordinary compliment. ;) ”
Sorry, I forgot to put your post # and name as I usually try to do. Yes, it was “addressed” to you as a neutral comment – - not “aimed” at you as an attack. (Just wanted you to know…) I was trying to be clever. Guess I should leave that to those who are witty.
kg
Katie, that would eliminate half this crowd!*
*(making them………………………….c’mon, you can do it!)
#202
Katie, my usage of the word “aimed” was just due to my imperfect knowledge of the English language. Sorry for the misunderstanding and thanks for pointing out that your post wasn’t meant as an attack. I would like to stress that I do consider “fascinating” a compliment – thanks for that!
#200—”I’ve come to believe that diminishing and discounting my views is the same as discounting others opinions too. I think my deep affection and vision of things is just as important as the group buying Hanna Montana tickets or younger.”
Andy, in looking back at it, I have come to believe that the wording of my last post may have progressed to the point of being a bit harsh toward the end. In the interest of being absolutely clear, I do not propose that our opinions will be completely irrelevant to the future of the franchise, but that our own sense of importance to it is often somewhat exaggerated.
What I mean is, when someone implies to me that Pine’s performance as Kirk will be somehow “illegitimate” if he does not conform to the same dialogue delivery style or physical mannerisms of his predecessor, it prompts me to put that into the perspective of anticipating how that portrayal will play to different types of viewers (demographics, if you will).
I find it difficult to believe that younger viewers and those who may have never before given Star Trek a chance (a major portion of the production team’s stated target audience) will scrutinize this interpretation of JTK in the same manner as someone who has been with the franchise since its beginning or the early years of syndication. I find it unlikely because it is more than reasonable, IMO, to conclude that a major portion of that new audience has never even seen JTK portrayed by Mr. Shatner.
I think that what is most important is that the chief characteristics of JTK-the hero remain intact with Pine’s portrayal. For example, I think he should be a natural leader who is always firmly in charge of any room he enters, rather smooth with the ladies, loyal to his friends, confident (bordering on total arrogance), and as willing to solve problems with his fists (or even a phaser) as he is with his mind. I also believe he should be at his best only when he is the beneficiary of the tempering counsel given by Spock and Bones.
With that said, I also think we must remember that this JTK has not yet fully evolved into the Captain/Admiral/Captain we have thus far seen on screen. Much of Pine’s portrayal will likely be of a less mature Kirk, and one who has not yet developed those tempering relationships I described before. In any case, I look forward to seeing the evolution of our hero on screen.
The real question is, did Abrams bring in any martial arts instructors who are familiar with the art of Kirk-fu (lol)? If I desire any nostalgic nod to Shatner at all in Pine’s portrayal, it is the trusted double-fist strike to the body!!! J/K…
#204. Iowagirl
Thanks. Glad we’re okay.
Have a great week!
kg
#206
Thanks Katie, the same to you.
205
“The real question is, did Abrams bring in any martial arts instructors who are familiar with the art of Kirk-fu (lol)? ”
Aye…now yer’ talkin’!
I think you all have to get beyond the Kirk parodie thing.
Capt Kirk was about … more than …. dramatic ….. pauses.
He was about giving computers nervous breakdowns and being a horn dog.
Supremely self confident and even arrogant.
There’s quite a lot of info on Kirks character in case you parodie ppl didn’t notice.
Personally, I would be very dissapointed if the new Kirk does not stay true to the character we all know so well.
I will also be very dissapointed if he DOES NOT do a dramatic pause.
Just put it where it belongs, in a dramatic and inspiring speach .
“THAT”S… why we’re ABOARD … her”