William Shatner Still Not In Star Trek Movie - Final Cut Weeks Away August 25, 2008
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Abrams, ST09 Cast, Shatner , trackback
For those who may not have picked up on this yet, William Shatner is not in the new Star Trek movie, yet rumors and conjecture persist that maybe he is. But a new pair of interviews with both Shatner and Star Trek director JJ Abrams denying Shat is in the movie should be the final word on this saga.
Shatner: I know nothing
In the brand new issue of Star Trek Magazine, the original Kirk again recalls that he had some meetings with Star Trek director JJ Abrams, but he still isn’t certain "what those meetings were about." However, he is certain about one thing:
I have no connection with the film whatsoever. It’s the strangest thing. Even my dear friend Leonard [Nimoy] won’t tell me what it’s about.
In the interview Shatner also recounted recently working with Robert Pine, father of Chris Pine (the new Kirk) and that he and Chris exchanged notes of regard. He has nothing but good things to say about the Pines:
It’s a lovely family. I just wish him well, and hope that the movie becomes successful and that he himself is successful in it.
Abrams: Nimoy only — almost has final cut
And in case you are holding out hope that something has happened between the point in time Shatner did the mag interview and today, sorry but you are out of luck. In a press event for Fringe in New York today (reported by IGN), director JJ Abrams addressed the ‘is Shatner in it?’ question by saying:
No, the only cast member from the original films is Nimoy.
Abrams also said that despite others seeing a cut of the film, they were still ‘evolving’ the film, and noting:
I’m hoping the final cut is a few weeks away. But we’re definitely circling.
So there you have it. The final cut (without music, sound and visual effects) is almost done, and it is still sans-Shat. Maybe this will stop the speculation–maybe.
Comments»
I suppose we’ll start seeing stuff on YouTube now… Man, the months are getting very long now.
First?
The speculation will end on Opening night. Until then, people will still want and need the Shat!
cool i was and how much would one have to pay to get a peak at this come on JJ u must have a price =)
I think it’s for the best not to have Shatner in it. It was really sounding like putting him in the movie would have looked forced. I’m not worried about the movie, either. Kevin Smith had good things to say about it, and so did Wil Wheaton. That’s good enough for me.
Shatner’s Star Trek career isn’t over yet.
No need for despair. We haven’t seen the last of Shatner’s Kirk.
But in the meantime, I’ll take Pine’s.
Any Kirk in a storm!
(That one is for you Naval Dude).
Or should I say…
Any Trek in a Storm!
That one is for you, Voyager!
I still think Shatner will probably show up in it. But hey, I figured that Obama would pick Hillary as VP. Giving people what they want doesn’t seem to be in vogue right now.
I just hope it’s a great movie.
If you honestly thought he would be in it you were setting yourself up for disappointment.
JJ likes to surprise people and he likes “twists”. Maybe Shatner will show up as a photo on the wall at Starfleet academy. I don’t think he will be in the movie but I wouldn’t put it past JJ to place Shatner somewhere in a photo or in the background in a commercial or something obscure.
I’ve learned that the secretly filmed Shat scenes will be hand delivered to each theater on opening night.
The again, monkeys may fly out of my butt, too.
I’ll have to wait until the New Trek comes out,,,to see if William Shatner is or is not in the movie,,,
If not ,,,,,,,,,,I’ll start the ,,”Is William Shatner in the second Trek” rumour ..
I’ll be gutted if hes not in this,, I would give my front teeth to see Mr Shatner have a proper send off with the remaining TOS crew.
Im really worried now that this may be Nimoys last film as “Spock”,,theres a real sence of,,we may never see them together again,,,,sort of feeling
I hate that feeling,,,
:-Z
How is this still news?
I don’t understand how the Shatheads are still going nuts over this. Move on.
Shatner is not in film. I repeat, Shatner is NOT in the film.
That is the end of this Public Service Announcement.
Thank You.
Bob#10- LMAO!! Would that be standard chimpanzee-size monkeys or their smaller flying-monkey cousins…
If there is a segment in the film where, say, Spock is viewing a holovid of Kirk made before Kirk’s death (possibly a cut from an original series ep), would that qualify as Shatner appearing in the movie?
I’m surprised they couldn’t reach some kind of compromise… like having Priceline do a little 23rd century product placement? ;)
The more they say he isn’t in it, the more it seems that he is.
Time will tell for sure.
I’d still bet a dollar he’s in a post-credits wait-for-it-while-the-cinema-empties cameo.
I wouldn’t bet a fiver or anything, but I’d venture a single :)
Either way, I hear he’s still locked in as the monster in Cloverfield 2.
That really sucks.
Kirk was given the worst ending of any major fictional character in history.
Let’s hope that Abrams can at least give the character a better ending. If he at least does that I will shut up forever.
At the end of the movie, when old Spock returns to “the future” he arrives at a point in time when Kirk was still alive. I’m guessing we will actually not only see Kirk but also the rest of the surviving actors and the ones who have passed on through CG on the bridge of the starship Enterprise.
Torch passed.
Bring back Shat!
I’m sure I’ll get over it.
HONEST TO GOD “WHY ISN’T KIRK (SHATNER) IN THIS??? I don’t care how good it will be (I think it will be great), I would have been BETTER with Shatner… It was their chemistry (Nimoy/Shatner) that made it so special… What the hell JJ?
Pressure is building for the DVD “Special Edition Extended Director’s Cut Approved By God” to feature William Shatner as Kirk performing “Sex In This Club.”
This is great. The FINAL CUT is just a few weeks away and then it can sit on the shelf for what, eight months?
It will be odd if the plot is to reset the timeline and yet - among a billion other things - Kirk is still dead. I still think a K/S coda would be cool.
He’s not in this one, but will probably be in the next one, probably a cameo.
The Abrams team is right not to bring him back. While Shat is an entertaining actor, he’s a ham. All tongue and cheeck, just what the new team is moving away from, and rightly so.
God love the Shat, but he’s just not a very giving (read: good) actor. He chews up (read: commandeers) every scene he’s in, which must be exasperating for a director. Nimoy’s stillness and gravitas are way more suited to a “good” film, which I hope this will be.
I agree. J.J. is brilliant but as good as it will be, it could be “more” with Bill. For god sakes, he is Kirk! The actor you have playing a young Kirk is going to invoke “Shatner’s performance as Kirk” in some form, whether it be subtle or not. Why would you not have him? This is foolish. Don’t get me wrong, this movie will be solid, no question. I’m sure I’ll love it… but in the back of my mind, I’ll walk away wishing I could have seen BOTH KIRK & SPOCK on the same screen again. You guys could have took the time to make it happen… at the end of the day, it’s still just a movie.
So, he is saying that Shatner is NOT in the movie? Right?
lol
Under no circumstance to we “need” the Shat.
stop saying the shat… are you stupid?
That’s like the “Hoff” which is also completely lame. God, so lame.
Anthony, YOU ARE TOO FUNNY!! This is absolutely hilarious!! I can’t believe this discussion is still going!!
Thanks for giving me a good laugh. Trekkies are, if nothing else, indefatigable.
And yes, I’ve been into the chocolate again…
:-D
kg
Maybe he’ll give a speech before the premiere of the movie?
it’s been now like 17 years since the whole crew was together, the likelyhood of that happening again are unlikely, especially given they were unable or unwilling to do it 14 years ago, and if the new flik is a hit sans original crew I doubt that will make a case for bringing them in after the fact, what might be cool is some sort of gimmick where they bring in the survivors on to an episode of Boston Legal, something clever could be worked out there, and lets all hope for a free enterprise 2, that would be a great venue for a lenny/shat mindmeld
So let me get this straight. The producers tell us they can take artistic freedom and change the uniforms and change the Enterprise interior, and this won’t pose a problem with future Spock and why he doesn’t remember it differently, but somehow, bringing Shatner back as Kirk is this huge canon/story problem that can’t be solved. Let’s be honest folks. The writers, producers and director just didn’t want Shatner back. It’s that simple. I’m not saying it’s right. I’m not saying it’s wrong. Just be honest with the fans about the reasons.
I give up on Shatner being in this. Hell, im still awaiting the return of the Sisko!
I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it.
1) It’s FICTION therefore canon discussions and picking apart a fictional universe is just sad. I used to do it…WHEN I WAS 12!!!!
2) Chris Pine is now the person playing Captain Kirk…end of story.
That is all.
38. EXACTLY. Fiction allows for the suspension of disbelief, such as bringing a Vulcan back from the dead or a starship Captain back.
No Shat No Trek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope JJ comes to his senses and put Shatner in the film!
I love Shatner’s portrayal of Kirk. But…
Kirk died in “Generations”. Shatner looks too old to portray him at any point in time before his established onscreen death. Having him appear in the movie would just be a sentimental gimmick. To shoehorn him in somehow would seriously compromise the credibility of the story for me. Leave him out of it!
It’s funny, people are saying that this movie would automatically be better if Shatner were to turn up, but no one is willing to suggest the possibility (however remotely) that Shatner’s exclusion might be his own doing. J.J. and company might very well have felt that Shatner’s presence in this film might not have worked to the movie’s benefit, but who’s to say Shatner’s totally inocent in this matter? We don’t know the whole story. If he’s in it, and it doesn’t feel forced in, great. If he isn’t, oh well. It wasn’t the possible last appearance of Shatner as Kirk that drew my interest in this movie, it was the chance to see Trek return in a big way, having been infused with some badly-needed new creative blood.
#36 - hit the nail on the head. I’ve been saying this all along, like when they used the timing of the writer’s strike as an excuse.
Right or wrong about the decision, they haevn’t exactly been square about it.
They couldn’t even be that way with Shatner.
I think he played it the only way he could back in the fall - confused and a little hurt.
He’s human afterall.
definition: “shat” - past tense of sh*t.
Please address him by his full last name. The other is an insult. Or whatever.
TOS, the best of all Treks makes its movie return without even an apearance by the original crew? How low is Paramount and JJ gone not to at least throw in a sequence with the orignal crew, especially in a story that revolves around time travel!
I agree with you #16. This means that Shat is definately in the movie.
This breaking news just in: Generalissimo Francisco Franco is STILL dead!
I suddenly have a sneaking suspicion that maybe just maybe as a result of the time travel element… the movie may end with a post credits nod to the Shat…
Imagine if you will… ala Iron Man ending with Samuel Jackson showing up as Nick Fury… Spock returns to the 24th Century to share a glass of Romulan Ale with an aged but alive Admiral KirK!
C’mon… that would be totally cool, doable, not conflict with the movie, and give everyone a double happy ending…
I’m on board. Quote me Doug L. 8/25/08
45.TL,
The answer is simple: they don’t have to.
Also, in response to your post #40, Shatner is not the be-all end-all of Trek. Trek is bigger than any one actor or series. I’m not denigrating Shatner’s role in Trek, which was pretty important, I’m just saying that for me, Trek does not begin or end with Shatner. If it did, Trek should have ended with Generations.
Trek is bigger than any one actor, but I for one have more faith in Shatner than in JJ.
I cant wait till next year when Shat fans have heart attacks in the theaters.
Shat-Kirk is dead! RIP - already for Sarek’s Sake.
I really have not thought Bill would be in the movie for a long time now. I chose to believe both Bill and Leonard when they said that was the case. While I realize that to some fans it is unimportant whether Bill is in the movie or not; I ask those same folks to realize that to many of us fans who loved Shatner’s portrayal of Kirk, this movie, and the way this issue has been handled, leaves us feeling somewhat left out, and very disappointed.
I feel Bill should have been in the movie and not just in a cameo or some lame photo, stuck in the background of some scene. He should have been given the same opportunity to pass the torch to the new Kirk as Leonard was given to pass the torch to new Spock. This movie may be great, and I will reserve judgement until it comes out, but without Shatner, …well I think there will be something very special missing in the hearts of Shatner fans everywhere. It is an opportunity that is lost forever and that is very sad.
Final cut…ah, but then there will be the screenings for audiences and that might lead to reshoots and I’m betting leaks! JJ better pick is audiences very carefully.
As for Shatner, sigh, I’ve accepted it, gone through the stages of grief and just am sad that such an opportunity of seeing them together again is lost.
Or is he just “pinin’ for the fjords?” :)
But seriously, guys, the voices of reason have something here. Just because JJ Abrams has played things (like Cloverfield) very close to the vest in the past, it does NOT, repeat, NOT follow that every single movie he does has to have some sort of pre-release mind#$%! with the fans.
Until I see otherwise with my own two baby greys, the last we’ll see of cinematic Kirk was in Generations, when they dropped a bridge on ‘im.
The fans long ago accepted that it wasn’t going to happen.
Only Robert Orci kept it going (and JJ himself) post comic-con for at least 5 or 6 months, with Orci resurrecting it as far back as March again saying it was possible.
This isn’t the fans holding out hope. It was one of the writers messing with our hopes.
A movie about time travel and they couldn’t figure a way to get Shatner in it. I agree with the guy who said they should have just been honest and said they didn’t want him in, because the whole production screams of it.
It’s the worst handled piece of misinformation in Trek history.
42 - Totally agree. Also, who’s to say that the story these guys wrote simply didn’t have the older Kirk in it?
If that’s so (which is my bet), and that’s the story/script that got the greenlight, then they’re right to refuse to put him in it just because he’s still popular. If they’re doing this right, the integrity of the story trumps the popularity of a single actor, even if it is Shatner.
We need the SHAT CUT!!!
I agree with some of the posters above, Mr. Abrams will possibly have Mr. Shatner on a viewscreen like Admiral Janeway was in Nemisis.
A quick scene and he’ll be gone. The actors in the scene will not know who they are talking to and Mr. Shatner can come in anytime and film the scene, hell he could film it at home with a blue or green screen in the background.
Only time will tell.
53 - Shatner had his torch-passing already. It was called ‘Generations.’ It was a generally inferior film, but Shatner signed on anyway. Tellingly, Nimoy read the script and turned it down. And now the better decision will yield the better result (assuming ST09 is as good as I think it will be).
VOTE IN THE EW POLL!!!
Which fanboy flick are you most excited about?
Star Trek is currently 4th out of 6, behind Harry Potter, Watchmen and Transformers 2. It’s on the EW homepage here http://www.ew.com
I found a recorded statement from Shatner on being left out of the movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bZKEhgieoc
:-)
Is it really necessary to refer to Shatner as “the original Kirk” and Nimoy as “the original Spock” ?
>>Kirk was given the worst ending of any major fictional character in history.
Yup. Generations was bad enough the first time; who knew it would come back to haunt us all these years later!
Just as Kevin Smith if he’s in the movie.
[Robert April shakes his head in disbelief at this whole thread.]
This just in to our news desk:
The original Dr. McCoy, DeForrest Kelly, is STILL NOT in the next Star Trek movie.
More details to follow on this developing story.
…Both young Spock and old Spock stared into each others eyes for what seemed an eternity, standing at the edge of the platform that held the weight of the small but powerful class-II Vulcan Temporal-Pod, barely a wind to be heard anywhere. With a nod and acknowledgment of the events that had just transpired, and how with a lot of work and a bit of luck, certain events may have been altered ever so slightly, and the universe might be a better and safer place for it, the senior Spock gingerly placed himself in the Pod, the seat conforming quickly around him to take his shape, and with a very slight hum and magnetic push against the surrounding air, the Temporal Pod slowly lifted itself off the cold, blue-steel deck that was once it’s temporary and secluded resting place, and with a nearly blinding light and seemingly impossible speed, it is space-future bound.
The younger Spock carefully navigates his way down the outcropping of rocks and dirt that are the path to his personal and well hidden shuttle platform and makes his way to his three-wheeled cruiser, and heads back to the academy with an hour to spare before graduation. When he arrives, he is greeted by his new friend James Kirk. Kirk notices the bit of orange clay and dirt at the bottom of his uniform and queries “Take a nature hike without me”. “Not exactly” Spock replies in a much wiser voice than he had only three weeks previously. He raises an eyebrow an continues “However, if ever I should find it necessary to take one, I will remember to invite you, if you so desire”. Kirk let out a chuckle “If I so desire, Spock? How about simply because were friends now?” to which Spock placed a hand on his shoulder, and said in a more somber and mature voice “And ever shall I be, Jim”.
A sharp pinging emanated from under the console of the Vulcan Pod to alert it’s passenger that the craft had come out of Temporal Warp and entered the system of it’s destination at the correct positioning and star-date. The craft shot through the upper atmosphere with little effort and found it’s mark on the ground with relative ease, gently positioning itself between two large boulders in some shade. With a slight hiss and snapping of release clamps, the hatch slowly pulled back and away from the rest of the Pod and the older Spock emerged from the cockpit. Standing beside the craft, he took note of his surroundings, a dry arid landscape of rocks and sand, the hot sun beating down upon his wrinkled face, and found his way to a slightly familiar outcropping of rocks. Making his way around the debris, he managed to find the metal girder that once held a small platform and climbed to the top where from that height, he could drop down upon a fallen steel bridge and crawl across to the other side of the platform. Once across, he found the narrow, flat cliff facing overlooking the rest of the ravine that once held a small but important pile of rocks that interred a man that on more than one occasion had the habit of saving millions of people, and the inhabitants of Veridian III here were no exception. However, on this particular day, and in this newly-formed particular time-line, that small, lonely pile of rocks no longer existed, nor was there a body there to hide. The elder Spock felt a great relief flood over him, mentally noting to himself that with a slight alteration to reality as it once was known, he just may have saved a very close and dear friend of his from a fate most undeserving for a man that has saved entire planets from decimation. He knelt down to a knee and gazed upwards towards the sky, barely a cloud above, and smiled. Something he no longer found beneath him, rather, a part of who he was and had some time ago learned to accept and even embrace. With a gentle sigh, he said in a soft whisper “I’ll see you soon, Jim”, released the rest of his breath, rose to his feet, and made his way back to his ship for a quick ride to be with an old friend.
Still don’t buy it…..
Oh, ahh, the above is just me wishful-thinking stuff…
Generations was just a bad dream of Jean-Luc Picard. It never happened.
If I were directing this movie, i would be be very upset at this time. To still be answering questions about this topic would not sit well with me. I do not however feel any sympathy for jj abrams. i would be concerned. whatever damage control or explanations given have not been succesful in putting this to rest. Many of the interviewers are mainstream entertainment reporters. If they are asking this question then they are probably representing the mainstream audience this movie so desperately needs. I guess jj hopes the movie is so good that after seeing it the reviews will be so great that this will finally be forgotten.
Still asking this is not a good sign. I will try to not let this deter the movie for me. I do believe after seeing it there will be a scene or scenes that could have been wonderful had Shatner been there. I still believe in this film. However this whole thing has been a mess since comic con last year. Seems there is more interest in who is not in it than who is in it. As a director or producer you would have to think that maybe just maybe we made a mistake.
#24: It will NOT be “sitting on the shelf” for 8 months. The sound effects, music, and visual effects still need to be done as well as any additional tweaks. Give it time. The last time a Star Trek film was this hyped, marketed, and rushed with barely any time to spare to do everything properly… well… we know what happened there.
We are still about 9 months away. There are always……possibilities!
Captain PIKE IS in the movie!!!!
I dreamt that my grandmother had a dream that she was an Orion slave-girl and she was kissing William Shatner who was only a hundred and twenty kilos so she said to him:
“Gee you’re fat!”
He said to her with a ;) “I know! But I won’t be when you see me in the movie.”
So that means he IS in the movie and you can quote me.
#63:
Is it really necessary to refer to Shatner as “the original Kirk” and Nimoy as “the original Spock” ?
Certainly better than “He who was Kirk” that pops up from time to time.
Given Kirk’s death in Generations, resurrecting him in this film would, to say the least, require much exposition. This exposition is not germane to the origin-story of this film; and it would, in fact, harm such a story. I am a huge William Shatner fan; but the story must take precedence.
Regarding the story, I am a little uncomfortable with the notion of time-travel. First, even granting the possibility of time-travel, does it make sense to say that Spock may interact WITH HIMSELF? I.e., how can one-and-the-same person be in two places at the same time? Second, does it even make sense to say that we could change the past? The present and future follow inexorably from the past. So, in elder-Spock’s present, before he attempts time-travel, he will face the consequences of what he has done in the past; i.e., what he is about to do. What Spock is about to do has already been done; for what he did, he did in the past. So how is it possible to change anything? And why would he try to change anything, given that he has already done what he wanted to do?
Shatner deserves not to be in it after that atrocious DirecTV abomination that was passed off as an advertisement.
Hyperbole, yes, but the disgust you sense is quite real.
“I have no connection with the film whatsoever. It’s the strangest thing. Even my dear friend Leonard [Nimoy] won’t tell me what it’s about.”
LOL, this confirms it for me. He is in it.
There’s no need to refer to Shatner as “the original Kirk” or Nimoy as “the original Spock.”
Shatner is Kirk. Nimoy is Spock.
But now Chris Pine is Kirk, too. And Zachary Quinto is Spock, too.
So, mathematically: Shatner = Kirk and Pine = Kirk. Nimoy = Spock and Quinto = Spock. Does this mean, then, that Shatner = Pine and Nimoy = Quinto? No. This is a new form of math. Equations only flow in one direction, from actor to character, not from actor to actor. It’s called Hollywood Mathematics (copyright Buckaroohawk).
We’ll find out in about nine months if the equations hold up to scrutiny. If they don’t, the error will obviously lie within the “Hollywood” part and not the “Mathematics” part.
See. Math is fun!
#53 … Wow, after reading your post, I don’t even have to say anything, I can just refer people to your post! You’ve summed up perfectly my feelings on the matter. I’ve been cloned!
I shall now retire to the Norpin Colony.
JJ may disseminate but I’ve never heard of him outright lying. This makes it definite, no Shatner.
…the adventure continues…
Bill will be in the next one.
I think JJ Abrams could win first prize in a Lindsey Buckingham lookalike contest.
The Kirk is dead. Long live the Kirk!
“Shatner had his torch-passing already. It was called ‘Generations.’ It was a generally inferior film, but Shatner signed on anyway. Tellingly, Nimoy read the script and turned it down. And now the better decision will yield the better result (assuming ST09 is as good as I think it will be).”
Wow that totally doesn’t reek of misplaced arrogance.
I thought this was done months ago.
He’s not in it.
He and others that KNOW say he’s not in it and I’d think that the fans of Shatner would finally accept that fact. Are you thinking he’d lie to you? I mean really… there are a few “I know he’s in it because…’ statements that are just too funny.
And to the “shame on JJ” group, until facts are known, it’s shame on no one. They didn’t hire him or he wanted too much (Screen-time/money). There were meetings, but he doesn’t know what they were about? Huh?
And it’s not a grand conspiracy to keep him out…. that the best little gem of all.
My point? Trek fans are among the best known in the world and it’s time to show at least a “Wait and see” attitude about this movie rather than argue who’s in and out for the 186,262nd time. This is really old news.
this is not a disaster.
Wow, I was over the hole Shat thing about a year ago!!! Looking foward to the movie. only about half a year to go….!!!
Isn’t Shatner dead?
Anthony P: (respectfully) why ya gotta go stirring things up again? I thought this was ka-put. Now the Shat-heads in are reminded and angry again and anti-Shats are gloating. Have you been drinking again?
What happened to Peace in the Middle East (ern part of the Federation)?
Kirk will be in his own spin off movie, “Kirk’s Guide To Space Women”
Well..
They always can let him sing the end credits song..
:-)
ok ok ok ok… so, will Shatner be in the DVD version?????
After 23 years of intensive research, I have concluded that tha’ Hindenburg fire wuz caused by an airborne static spark which ignited the paint on tha’ skin… tha’ paint bein’ composed o’ aluminum acetate and iron oxide (componants found in rocket fuel)… and NOT by a single phazer blast from behind a grassy knoll… a phazer blast thought ta’ have been caused by William Shatner…
However, deductive reasoning suggests that since he wuz but six years old at tha’ time o’ tha’ blimp tragedy, tha’ shadowy man thought ta’ be William Shatner was not in fact him, and Shatner wuz not at tha’ Jersey airfield at tha’ time…
Oh, tha’ humanity… me life’s work tryin’ ta’prove he wuz thar’…. But I got a new lead… Bigfeets like fires ya’ see…
Arrrrrrrr…
‘course hope (even hopeless hope) is not at it’s end a bad thing so regarding Shatner (wit’ apologies please, due ta’ weight or Khan thinkin’ he be a Moby Dick)… Opening day fur tha’ film: “In what’s sure to be a media circus, the whale gets shipped in!”
Arrrrrrr…
Oh boy, Here come all the Little kids with their “Kirk’s Dead,get over it”
speeches. Listen here Brats, so is Data get Over That!! If he truly isn’t in the Movie, Then I’m sure “The Brams” or JJ Realizes How HUGE of a mistake that was. I know he’s regretting it. All it could have taken was a pick up scene or two, a quick Flash to, or a cameo. That’s it. No matter how Good the Movie is, There’s no Fu%#ing reason it couldn’t have been that Much better. Yes there is Leonard Nimoy and I can’t wait to see him again on the big Screen. When it comes To Bill it all just seems like one Big Missed opportunity, especially with all the time JJ had to do something about it. As for the Kids,
Hey maybe you want to see the original Star Trek get the same Dukes of Hazard, or Starsky & Hutch Big screen Makeover but I don’t.
I knew he wouldn’t be but I love him still.
Yeah, BND!! I was wonderrrin’ Where Ye Be.
Hmmm… How many tickets will be sold by the first weekend just to satisfy our curiosity over whether he is in the movie or not???
Either way, it’s all a CCONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!
This means Shatner is TOTALLY coing to be in this film!!
I knew it.
Even after final cut, they could have reshoots after the entire test audience writes “where’s Shatner” on their response forms! I kid.
The best and missed chance for Shatner to return was on Enterprise as Mirror Kirk (who is not, of course, the dying-to-save-innocent-planets type).
#9.
Yeah, but that won’t happen ’cause Shatner would ask for a boat load of money for his photo to appear in the film. lol!
#50.
Not me. I have 20 times more faith in Abrams than Shatner. Abrams’ worst directed TV episode is better than the FINAL FRONTIER. God what a dreadful movie. Shatner should have been banned from coming close to any TREK film after directing that crap-fest of a movie.
#61
This EW poll doesn’t surprise me one bit. What I find amusing is the fan boys are arguing if Shatner is in or not in the film, and the real point to consider is if anybody cares if there is a TREK film to begin with.
As Admiral Ackbar would say…
IT’S A TRAP!!!
I can’t believe that Anthony believed this might stop the speculation. Unfortunately, that tiresome little game will go on until the movie premieres.
The last scene is Spock and Spock visiting Kirk’s grave site. Young Spock looks at Spock and says, “Well, at least this will be changed.” Old Spock raises an eyebrow. He leaves Young Spock, and walks into a forest where we see Old Kirk waiting for him. They both walk off and the movie ends.
Told ya.
I heard from this guys cousin that was the doorman for this club that overheard a dude that knows a girl that works at this tanning salon in LA say that a guy was getting a tan was really a suit from Paramount and was talking on his cell whist tanning in the bed, unbeknownst to him she heard everything and heard him spill the beans that at the end of the movie there’s a really big set up for Shats return in 12!!!!!! That’s right, the Shat-man will be donning the gold tunic one more time in 2012:^)
#27
I must agree that Shatner has a predilection for hamming it up, as some third season episodes demonstrated. But I think that a good director can control that aspect. For what its worth, I think the best Shatner performance as Kirk was in ST:TMP and if I remember correctly that was because Robert Wise often made him do take after take until ‘the ham’ was on hold and you just got a believable scene.
But once again no real news here. Move along, move along. Nothing to see here. As Frank might say!
#73
Yep! It took 20 years until we got the finally finished motion picture on The Directors Edition DVD. But let’s be honest, was it not worth the wait? Well maybe not, it would have been nice to have it like that originally, but you know what I mean.
Ever since I first saw ST:TMP TDE I think that this is now the best Star Trek film ever made… Wish it could get a limited cinema release in the UK. Sighs….
A side note
For everyone who is using IE to post and gets annoyed at the stupid spelling mistakes they make after reading their (submitted and unalterable) post, may I recommend you download and install ‘ieSpell’, it is free and works really well.
The first cut is just one step with many left to go.
There will be music, sound effects, visual effects, more editing, test screenings. I will be surprised if it is actually sitting on a shelf gathering dust by Christmas. But if we get a great film out of it, who cares? It is not like we can bully Paramount into releasing it when we want.
Lets show how gracious and enlightened we (as Star Trek fans) are supposed to be and let the filmmakers get on with their job. And be thankful they even bother coming here to post from time to time. In my 40 odd years on the planet, I have never known filmmakers to make time like this for us rabid fans(!), we really should be honoured.
I’m sure that they will release some stunning photographs when the time is right to do so.
Patience is a virtue, some say.
As far as we know, Spock travels back in time to meet with the crew in the stages before they were formed, or even contacts his then troubled younger self to jumpstart that formation… this works for me. If ST is a runaway success there is always time for Mr. Shatner to be in the next one. For me it was a nice touch that sold me to TNG to have McCoy send her off in the pilot. And that was at a time when I said “Trek without Kirk and Spock? Never!”
eleventy-first
All right, I typed too slow and missed 111… but talking about Bilbo, here ist Leonard Nimoys fascinating Ballad of Bilbo Baggins…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC73PHdQX04
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I really hope that he will be in the movie, after all this is the guy who made Captain Kirk a legend
I’m really fed up with this cat-and-mouse game now. Don’t wanna be a part of Abrams’ amusement park any longer.
Keep discussing! Bye t’ya all.
Hey. I’m really all right with that. Bill Shatner was quite an ego in his day, still is as a matter of fact. That’s fine but now it’s time for team work. I’m glad they let Mr. Nimoy take the lead. He’s a good leader. He doesn’t feel the need to belittle others to look greater himself. Nimoy is great already and others shine in his light. This movie will be a great un-Shatnered production of Star Trek. I’m looking forward to seeing it.
Get a life Bill! Isn’t there anything else you know but Star Trek?
I can’t belive people are still talking about this. Shatner has had his time now move on people. I mean seriously - move on. Make way for some new talent.
You do, of course, realize this does not prove anything.
I heard that Shatener was in it in a small cameo to be a surprise to the audience. In fact, I heard that he’s not the only one. The cameos are said to be pretty small–i.e. mainly for the old fans.
J.J. Abrams is known for wanting the audience to be surprised while watching the film. He has folks sign agreements not to say anything. Having him say there is no Shatner doesn’t prove anything. Nor does having Shatner saying he doesn’t know anything about the film and that he isn’t in it. If he or Abrams were to say anything else, like “I can’t say,” or “no comment,” then everyone could deduce that he was in the film.
I’m not saying that he will be in it or not. I’m just saying don’t be too idiotically shocked if you see Riker, Shatner as Kirk, Picard, or hell, even Harrison Ford. If they aren’t in the film, that’s fine. But if they are, it wouldn’t be the first time film makers/ TV people told a little white lie.
Remember the whole, “Starbuck is dead,” last year. It was one of the worst kept secrets.
Both Abrams and Shatener say he’s not in it. Yet the rumors are all over the place that suggest that he is and Abrams wants it to be a surprise.
I can wait. If he’s in it, it won’t upset me or shock me in any way. If he’s not, it won’t either. But I don’t count on the word of folks who honestly want the people to see things and be surprised while watching the film for the first time.
#120
“Yet the rumors are all over the place that suggest that he is and Abrams wants it to be a surprise.”
The only “rumours” that are “all over the place” are fanboys who keep thinking “not in the movie” is some kind of code for “in the movie”. This isn’t Bizzaro World where “Hello” means “Good-bye” and words mean the opposite.
“not in the movie” means exactly that……
I just want to know how Kevin Smith got to see a cut of the new movie and Shatner didnt. Seems to me like JJ’s being kind of a dick to Shatner over this whole issue and it seems like at this point if Roddenberry was still alive JJ might even cut him out of the movie completly. I can accept not bringing kirk’s caracter back to life but he should of given Shatner some noticable roll, even if in a flashback or something, and for the love of god even if he didnt have him in the movie not letting him in on the movie is beyond rude.
BRING BACK THE SISKO!!!!! (OLD) KIRK R.I.P.!!!!! YOU’LL BE MISSED BUT NOT FORGOTTEN!!!!! BRING BACK THE SISKO!!!!!!!
Still there´s no reason why he can´t appear as a Holodeck recording. Just like Tasha Yar in her testament.
Gah, it could even be the video from the game “StarFleet Academy” when he says that risk is our business. This could even be the motto of the new movie. “Risk is our business” and drop that silly overdone “Begins” thing.
#37 - Now that is one return I would pay good money to see!
Thank God he’s not in the movie.
1. He’s too old.
2. He’s too fat.
3. He hasn’t played Kirk since TOS (or perhaps TMP).
4. The story of a film should not be changed to accomodate an actor.
Could somebody explain to me how Shatner could come back? Didn’t Captain Kirk die in Generations or am I missing something?
126 Anthony Thompson
I thought they announced he was in at comic con…
Anthony Pascale
Perhaps you should take the “still” out of still not in the movie for this headline.
In the alternate universe, Bill Shatner with a goatee is in the next movie.
Also in the alternate universe, Zachary Quinto plays a character on a TV show where a bunch of superfreaks chase him around and try to eat his brain.
And director JJ Abrams eats his kids’ pet bunnies for breakfast.
Bill will still be in the commercials, selling us the DVD.
#126
Come on, give Shatner a bit of a break here. He can’t help getting older or fatter. After all the alternative is fairly final, no?
Most people accumulate some girth as they age. Usually in places we don’t want. If I am as active as he when I am in my latter seventies I will have no complaints.
Personally, I would love to see him in the movie with a small but meaningful role. But only if it serves the story.
If he is in and JJ and Shatner are feeding us misinformation, so what? It makes the surprise at seeing him all the better. If they are telling the truth, then what have we lost apart from our time reading others telling us it is all a conspiracy…
#126 — you too will be old someday (we all will). From day one I always felt that Shatner should be in this film. Was it a mistake not to inlude him — yes I believe so. As much as it pains to me to say this, no Shatner does not mean this will be a bad film. I believe it will be a good film — how good? none of us will know until we see it. I do know when I watch it, and if somehow this becomes the best Trek movie ever — I will still miss Shatner’s presence.
I believe Anthony and some others have said this - The next movie could really be THE movie to see. And that is the one that may have Shatner in it. But I don’t believe they will. I kind of feel a window has been lost.
C’mon people, if it’s supposed to be a secret, what do you think they are going to say?
“Well, it’s a secret cameo, but yeah, Shatner does show up. It should be a big surprise!. ”
IF Shatner is in it, we WONT hear about it ahead of time. IF he is truly NOT in the movie, we won’t know until May, simple as that.
The movie will be the final word.
¡Viva Shatner!
#68 Green blooded bastard
Maybe Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman would like that!!
….the Movie will be the final word….for that Movie, if he’s not in it….but the speculation and expectations will continue for the sequel if he’s not!….
AAAAAAARGH!!
Personally, I think it would have been UBERCOOL to see a re-teaming of the ‘elderly’ Kirk with ‘elderly’ Spock somewhere, however brief, in this TOS-influenced Movie….EVEN if it’s storyline is a rebooted supposedly ‘alternative timeline’. And if it doesn’t, and it transpires that William Shatner wasn’t overdamanding in his requests, then it’s an opportunity sadly lost.
Iowagirl, I’m with you, and I won’t be getting worked up about this anymore in any future threads like this one….
test
We can’t really believe everything that would come out of JJ’s mouth because of his secret-fetish.
Does anyone have a quote from a previous project where he deliberately lied or misled to cover up a surprise? Because as of now, that is the territory we are in based on what he his quoted as saying above of William Shatner is in fact in the new film.
I don’t know what to believe.
We interrupt this webpage to bring you breaking news from our 24 hour news desk . . . .
James Doohan is also STILL not in the next Star Trek movie.
More details to follow as they come available . . . .
today I’m feeling rather shatner-rific so I say SHATNER WILL BE IN THIS MOVINooooooooooooooooooo *voooiiiiiipppp* … …
Yada yada yada. They doth protest too much.
Shatner’s in it. Wait for the easter egg, babies.
I, for one, won’t stop speculating.
Throughout the past, present and future of television and film, William Shatner has been, is and will be inexorably remembered as the actor who brought the character of James T. Kirk to life.
Chris Pine will not. Pretty simple.
That said, here’s to looking forward to a great new movie worthy of the name, with depth and continuity - not just another in a line of re-tread pieces of junk which are soooo prevalent today.
I’m on the fence with this one.
The Fanboy inside me really wants Generations to be rectified and for Kirk to have a proper send off, but the rational side of me realises that Mr Shatner, no matter how classy and brilliant he may be, may not make this particular movie work. I agree with the comments above that the Shat being included in this movie would seem forced and that its not all about him. However I cant ignore the fact that Spock was saved by Kirk when he died, so surely Spock would do the same for his ‘dear friend’ (surely the Nexus has a loophole??)
The thing is though, we don’t fully know what Spock’s role in this film really is, and we do know that there will be another movie, so surely if the Shat is not involved in this one, he may be in the 2nd one??
The thing that always blows my mind about this, every single time it comes up, is the people who pop up insisting that it’s better if Shatner isn’t in the movie.
I mean - how come? Seriously? How can you be someone who is looking forward to a movie about the TOS characters and simultaneously not be keen on seeing Shatner play Kirk one final time? How is that even possible?
I would like Shatner to be in the movie. I accept that he isn’t - and almost certainly never will be. I’d like him to be in a sequel. I accept that this is unlikely. To actively not want him to be in it seems ragingly illogical, to me. How can you like TOS and not like Shatner-as-Kirk?
I also do not - with the greatest respect to Kurtzman, Orci and Abrams - the film-flam about it being hard to find a way to put him in. K & O were kings of the multiple death and resurrection back on ‘Xena’ and ‘Hercules’. If anyone can do it, they can - and lets face it, even without seeing the script it’s obviously not a horrendously difficult ask.
Obviously there were negotiation difficulties and everyone is now being polite, and quite right too, but the idea that there is some inherent storytelling ‘problem’ here that simply cannot be solved is pretty risible, to be honest.
137
“Personally, I think it would have been UBERCOOL to see a re-teaming of the ‘elderly’ Kirk with ‘elderly’ Spock somewhere”
Personally I think it’d by “ubercool” to have to entire original cast in the movie some way. (On a side note I don’t know why Takei doesn’t pull Walter Keonig on the Stern show with him for some entertaining banter. Keonig is enormously entertaining. Missed opportunity Howard.)
But I’d love to see them in a second movie. Talk about tying all age groups together.
“But a new pair of interviews with both Shatner and Star Trek director JJ Abrams denying Shat is in the movie should be the final word on this saga.”
Anthony, I admire your optimism. However, I suspect that even after the movie is out, and people are in the theater, and we are in the final 5 minutes of the movie with the Enterprise warping off into the distance, there will still be those going “there’s still time! Shatner can still have his surprise Cameo!”
What I would do if it were me is take a page from Ferris Bueller - after the movie is over and the credits have rolled, have Shatner appear on the screen in a hallway and say “You’re still here? It’s over - go home… go!”
#137 “Personally, I think it would have been UBERCOOL to see a re-teaming of the ‘elderly’ Kirk with ‘elderly’ Spock somewhere, however brief, in this TOS-influenced Movie….EVEN if it’s storyline is a rebooted supposedly ‘alternative timeline’. And if it doesn’t, and it transpires that William Shatner wasn’t overdemanding in his requests, then it’s an opportunity sadly lost.”
Right on, brother! It pleases me to see so many posts demonstrating Shat Love. Like #145 …
“How can you like TOS and not like Shatner-as-Kirk?”
Exactly. No reason ever given for why he shouldn’t be in it ever holds up. Coulda been done. And shoulda. Period!
p.s. Does anyone else think the rumored plot of Spock jumping around in time righting wrongs and saving lives sounds similar to the plot of HAMLET 2? ;-)
#36—”The writers, producers and director just didn’t want Shatner back. It’s that simple. I’m not saying it’s right. I’m not saying it’s wrong. Just be honest with the fans about the reasons.”
Based upon what?
According to Abrams and Orci, they did want to include Shatner. Orci told us that “Shatner required a larger role than (they) felt the movie could sustain”, and went on to explain that the source of that was Mr. Shatner’s “I don’t do cameos” comment.
There is no reason to believe that is anything but honest.
“…but somehow, bringing Shatner back as Kirk is this huge canon/story problem that can’t be solved.”
Of course it can be. That is not the question. The question is, can it be solved within the confines of the story they wish to tell, and without coming off as too gimmicky or contrite (not to mention justifying a role large enough to satisfy Bill Shatner).
#56—”Only Robert Orci kept it going (and JJ himself) post comic-con for at least 5 or 6 months, with Orci resurrecting it as far back as March again saying it was possible.”
Wrong. The article was in March. The actual quote you are referring to was from October (”Who knows?”). If you wish to blame someone for Shatner’s absence in STXI, you should look to that article and the reason that discussions ended regarding finding him a place in the film.
“Shatner required a role larger than we felt the movie could sustain.”—Bob Orci, October 2007
Why, you ask?
“I don’t do cameos.”—William Shatner, August 2007
Please try to be more accurate with the timeline, lest you unfairly misrepresent the facts.
Okay, pulled in for one LAST troubling thought and comment on all this….
….as #147 Lyle points out, I and some of my fellow ‘optimists’ / possibly ‘over-optimistics’ could quite possibly be left sat sitting through every bit of the ‘end credits’ with fingers and toes crossed, till the bitter end, lol. I hope the score turns out to be terrific in this case! :)
#145 “How can you be someone who is looking forward to a movie about the TOS characters and simultaneously not be keen on seeing Shatner play Kirk one final time? How is that even possible? ”
It’s no mystery. They are more fond of non-TOS version of Trek, so the character of Kirk means little to them. That and, of course, the fact that there will always be a few Trek fans who simply don’t like Shatner (who knows why) never have, and it really un-nerves and mystifies them that the man is incredibly popular. Hence the cries “PLEASE, NO MORE FAT SHAT!!”
Of course, for the rest of us, Shatner will always be the essence of the character and any chance for him to return to the role, however briefly, via a carefully guarded cameo surprise, would be delightful and welcomed with open arms. :)
followin’ up on post 96…
Dis is really important… while I conclusively dissproved me own theory that William Shatner wuz not at tha’ Jersey airfield in ‘37 and did not take a pot-shot at tha’ Hindenburg, I still have evidence that I’m not crazy or a kook… I mean, thar’ is some history which could link ‘im ta’ blimp-bashin’…
http://deltrame.googlepages.com/blimpconspiracy
Arrrrrrr…
#146—-” How can you be someone who is looking forward to a movie about the TOS characters and simultaneously not be keen on seeing Shatner play Kirk one final time? How is that even possible?”
I am a TOS fan and a fan of the original movies. My feelings about other incarnations of Trek range from disinterested to lukewarm. However, I can tell you that I feel much more comfortable without Shatner in this movie, and here is why:
Shatner as Kirk (TOS-TVH)=wonderful
Kirk as Shatner ( TFF-GEN)=not so good
I have been waiting 22 years for the iconic TOS characters to be recast and once again portrayed in their relative youth. I believe that the appearance of Nimoy as Spock is enough to satisfy my desire for nostalgia, and apparently justified by the plot of the film.
Believe me, it is very possible. For many of us, these characters are much larger than the actors who originally portrayed them.
Shatner said goodbye twice (STVI and GEN). That was enough for me.
“Shatner: I know nothing”
…Ah, that’s it! He can’t be in the new film because he’s practicing to play Schultz on the Hogan’s Heroes remake :-) :-) :-)
Just wake me up next year when this whole thing has blown over, and I’ll run down to Dollar General to get it on DVD. Sheesh!
Whether the Shat is or isn’t in the film, it doesn’t matter, I just want to see this film now!!
98. The Last Maquis - August 25, 2008
No need to blow a vein….or insult people. Leave the name-calling at home.
Prediction:
Just like Superman Returns, This movie will fall FLAT !
Sorry.
TOS already killed off and resurrected a major character. They got away with it but to me more than once would feel like a real cheat. We’ve had enough “reset buttons” in the various incarnations.
Let the dead rest.
#161 “Let the dead rest.”
The beauty of this movie is the dead CAN rest, yet live at the same time…in the alternate timeline. You can have your cake and eat it too. Nothing wrong with that.
Wow — such passion. For those of you who have seen my posts over the past 2+ years, you will know that there is no one more “Old-School” than I am. I always argued that you cannot compare Shatner/Kirk to the plethora of actors who have played James Bond, Sherlock Holmes, Batman,etc. The logic being that for some 40+ years we all have known Shatner TO BE JAMES T. KIRK. Shatner IS KIRK/WILL ALWAYS BE KIRK!!!
Think about it– after just one movie, many people are calling Daniel Craig the best 007 ever! What I’m saying here is that we really need to get over Shatner not being in this movie, if I can accept that, then the rest of you should be able to accept it. Lets also accept the fact that even without William Shatner, we just might be (Please G-d) seeing a great movie — dare I say maybe the best Star Trek movie ever.
So JJ “Mr. Secrecy” Abrahms says Shatner’s not in it, and we are to take his word for it? If Shatner were in it, they are all of a sudden now going to stop denying it? Can you see JJ saying: “Okay you got us - He is in it”?
Someone said JJ wouldn’t lie about it. He wouldn’t? This is the biggest project JJ has worked on to date with a lot weighing on it’s success.
I’m going on the record again and saying it for the 1,701 time: HE’S IN IT!
#162—That’s assuming such a thing would be beneficial to the story in STXI. The indications are that it wasn’t, hence the quote from Roberto Orci (in October)…”Shatner required a larger role than we felt the movie could sustain”, and the clarification (in March) that the statement was in reference to Shatner’s assertion that he does not do cameos (from August).
That suggests that the story could only sustain what amounted to a cameo (perhaps a flashback on the part of Nimoy’s Spock to a time prior to the incident aboard the Enterprise-B).
#151 “Please try to be more accurate with the timeline, lest you unfairly misrepresent the facts.”
Actually I was referring to the facts stated on this website itself.
You will find that Mr Orci’s comments were said to Star Trek magazine March 08:
http://trekmovie.com/2008/06/16/orci-kurtzman-talk-why-chose-tos-prequel-shatner/
And you will find Trekmovie’s Anthony Pascale on comment 8 of the same article, and I quote: “Well Shat said ‘I dont do cameos’ back in October of 07…shortly before filming started. But in May 08 after filming ended he suddenly seemed OK with cameos, even suggesting a voice over. Perhaps he was bluffing”
Both months I quoted in my original message. My facts are from this website. Where are yours from?
SHATNER: Welcome to Raw Nerve where today we’ll talk with internet sensation British Naval Dude. British Naval Dude? What the hell type of name is that?
BND: It’s East Anglian. Hey, what aboot this new film that I talked ta’ Simon Pegg aboot- “Debbie Does Liverpool”?
SHATNER: I have no connection with the film whatsoever.
BND: Fair enough, but surely we can have some fun discussin’ it…
SHATNER: Even my dear friend Leonard [Nimoy] won’t tell me what it’s about.
BND: I see… Well enough o’ this crap then. Please welcome me next guest from tha’ new Debbie film- TJ tha’ hooker…
SHATNER: I’m not going to be on your show anymore.
BND: Wait… isn’t this yer show, mate?
SHATNER: Then why are you calling up a guest? It’s the strangest thing.
BND: We could wrestle o’er whose show it be…
SHATNER: OK, you be shrts, I’ll be skins…
BND: This is not gunna be pretty… Can we go ta’ commercial?
SHATNER: You better stop telling people I hate blimps.
Arrrrrrr…
>BND: It’s East Anglian.
Oooh! I am honoured to be a fellow East Anglian!!!
#166—You are absolutely correct. The interview was conducted in March but not posted here until June. Forgive me for being confused earlier. I stand corrected. My usually solid memory seems to have failed me today, and I apologize.
However, the point remains…if Shatner said “I don’t do cameos” in October of ‘07, and Orci’s comment was from March ‘08, that is still two months prior to Shatner publicly changing his stance on “cameos” with his comments on The View.
I never found Orci’s comments to leave much of a door open for the possibility, and certainly never felt he was “messing with anyone’s hopes”. What I took from those statements was an explanation for why discussions ended among the “Supreme Court” members, and confirmation that a “Shatner cameo” was at one point being considered as something they felt the story might support.
Norfolk or Suffolk?
Arrrr… it be ye’, me, Eddie Izzard, Wessex, Ivar tha’ Boneless, and Lovejoy…
Shatner’d like tha’ countryside thar’…. no dirigibles at all…
Arrrrrrr…
#165 “#162—That’s assuming such a thing would be beneficial to the story in STXI.”
That’s where we disagree. I don’t think a fun cameo needs to be intregal to the story at all. I loved the monkees showing up in The Brady Bunch Movie. And yes, I know. Shatner doesn’t do cameos…depending on when you ask him. There is nothing wrong with a clever cameo, and if that cameo has some interesting bearing on the story, well that’s just more icing on the cake.
One thing you can bet the rent on is this. IF JJ and ORci and Shatner and everyone else wanted to surprise the fans with a a Shatner-played Kirk in this movie, you’re not going to read about it here or anywhere else. (Until May)
162.
“The beauty of this movie is the dead CAN rest, yet live at the same time…in the alternate timeline. You can have your cake and eat it too. Nothing wrong with that.”
That’s not beauty. It’s a gimmick and a cop-out. Because he chose to portray Kirk’s demise in “Generations”, Shatner cannot reprise the role without a lot of convoluted plot gymnastics. It would strain credibility to the breaking point. I would not be willing to suspend my disbelief that far. It would just be absurd.
I celebrate Shatner’s masterful portrayal of Captain Kirk over the years and toast his continued success in other pursuits.
#171—I am of the opinion that a “cameo” could have been beneficial to the story. A flashback scene (from the perpective of Nimoy’s Spock) depicting a conversation between Nimoy’s Spock and Shatner’s Kirk (prior to the events aboard the Enterprise-A of course) which had some relevance to the task at hand could always have fit into whatever story they were trying to tell. The extent of their creative duties then would only be the subject and dialogue of the conversation and making it relevant to the resolution of some conflict in the story.
Orci’s comment in the March interview suggests that STXI could have supported a cameo, and the fact that there were meetings (with and without Shatner) indicates that it was considered.
“I don’t do cameos” obviously makes such a suggestion a moot point, given Orci’s recounting of how that comment affected their creative interest in finding him a role. It is interesting to me that 7 months later, Shatner seemingly pretended as though he never said that. What I was referring to in #165 was a role in STXI large enough to appease Bill Shatner in August-October.
The only problem is that Shatner was never offered a cameo and that interview was after Shatner was told BY NIMOY (since Abrams didn’t have the guts to talk to him) that he wasn’t in the movie.
If you people don’t understand why Shatner fans are mad, I don’t know what to tell you. The bottom line is that not only is this such a touchy issue due to the crappy ending of Generations, but it was made worse by writers and producers coming on this site and acting as if they were trying to get him in the movie, when clearly, that was not the case.
If they had wanted him in the movie, they would have discussed plot with him, which never happened. Abrams said he was desperately trying to get him in the movie, but no contact at all means that’s simply not the case. They had a meeting early on, and that was it, and that was well before Abrams bragged about his desperation.
Not to mention how Orci acted on this site, constantly telling people how possible it was, while knowing full well Shatner wasn’t in the script, and there were no attempts to contact him.
The only person who told the truth the entire time was Shatner himself.
All this, and then one of the actresses actually has the nerve to say this is a movie for the fans. Like hell it is.
The excuses for not putting him in were weak. The whole movie, from what we know, involves Spock trying to keep Kirk alive in the past. You don’t think it would be easy enough to deal with Generations at that point?
Kirk’s death in Generations is a cloud over this movie. It doesn’t matter what happens to Kirk because we know he’s going to be splattered over a mountain because Picard couldn’t figure out that all you had to do was leave the nexus 10 minutes earlier and slap the cuffs on him.
They had a chance to fix Trek’s greatest mistake, and they had Trek’s most famous alumni ready to reprise the role. They fell out of a boat and didn’t hit water.
They may make a good movie, but the way they handled the Shatner situation was an absolute disgrace. I don’t know how much business it will cost them, but it will cost them business, whether it be people who are so mad they won’t see the movie, or people who would have gone to the movie just to see Shatner return to his iconic role.
Had Abrams just said from the get go that he couldn’t work it out for Shatner, it would have been weak, but it would have been far more honest, and there would be far less bitterness.
So don’t be surprised that people are upset. They have a right to be.
The cameo comment was in October 2007.
http://www.livevideo.com/video/ShatnerVision/9498198D549B4433B3AEAA80FC9033CA/is-william-shatner-in-the-new-.aspx
That’s the interview. In the SAME interview, he mentions how a cameo was never offered, never discussed, and well after the original news that Shatner wasn’t in the movie came out.
So please let’s get over the “I don’t do cameos” line, since that was one line of a much longer interview well AFTER the producers decided he wasn’t in the movie.
Is he willing to do a cameo? would they consider it at this point? What would mr. orci say to that? I’m sure Leonard Nimoy would oblige to shoot a gem of a scene with his old buddy.
#172 “That’s not beauty. It’s a gimmick and a cop-out. Because he chose to portray Kirk’s demise in “Generations”, Shatner cannot reprise the role without a lot of convoluted plot gymnastics. It would strain credibility to the breaking point. I would not be willing to suspend my disbelief that far. It would just be absurd.”
Well, granted it would be absurd to you. To the legions of new viewers that the producers hope to attract, paying customers that don’t know Data from shine-ola, it might possibly..and I mean POSSIBLY dust off some bit of trivia buried in the back of their young brains that reminds them that Shatner did play Kirk once upon a time. Or perhaps it would be a revelation. Denny Crane was Kirk? Maybe a “that’s cool” will be uttered here and there, along with the inevitable “so what” shrug of the shoulders. And to fans like myself, who dismiss Generations as rubbish, his death never happened. Therefore a subsequent appearance as Kirk would be just that. The return of Shatner as Kirk. A beautiful thing to be sure.
Damn….this turned out to be a good thread.
And this (174):
“Kirk’s death in Generations is a cloud over this movie. It doesn’t matter what happens to Kirk because we know he’s going to be splattered over a mountain because Picard couldn’t figure out that all you had to do was leave the nexus 10 minutes earlier and slap the cuffs on him.”
…is absolutely correct.
Anyhow - thanks for an entertaining day!
#175—”So please let’s get over the “I don’t do cameos” line, since that was one line of a much longer interview well AFTER the producers decided he wasn’t in the movie.”
You cannot discount that statement, especially since the film’s writer pointed to it specifically as the cause for the “Supreme Court’s” determination that it (putting Shatner in STXI) was not going to work within the story (at least in the type of role Shatner indicated he would require). Obviously, it was still in the air in October of 2007. Go back and read the article linked in post #166. Unless you are going to call Mr. Orci a liar, I don’t see how your contention that it (”I don’t do cameos”) was “well after the producers decided he wasn’t in the movie” can be accurate. Unless you can prove that Orci lied or misspoke in March, it will remain intregally relevant to the discussion…as long as it continues. He has no reason to have his credibility questioned. The only person involved who has demonstrated any inconsistency is Shatner.
#169 no probs, i just wanted to clarify that i wasnt making stuff up lol
I found the comments to be open to interpretation, but always offering hope when most of us had closed the door. They came across as the foot being left in the door. Many took them as gospel that something was happening or about to happen back scene and that it wasn’t over. So much so it prompted numerous responses from Shatner’s people who asked at one point, i recall, that they stopped because it was misleading.
#174—-”Kirk’s death in Generations is a cloud over this movie. It doesn’t matter what happens to Kirk because we know he’s going to be splattered over a mountain because Picard couldn’t figure out that all you had to do was leave the nexus 10 minutes earlier and slap the cuffs on him.”
I beg to differ… Did the knowledge that Brando’s Vito Corleone would die in his tomato garden in GFI make De Niro’s much younger Vito Corleone less entertaining in GFII? I certainly did not feel as if I did not care simply because I knew how he eventually died or that it was a less than “good” death. That argument is absurd to me.
Generations is a “cloud” because it was a bad movie…that’s all. Those scenes should not have been written, and Shatner should not have agreed to do them. He should have followed the lead of his friend, Leonard Nimoy and politely said, “No thank you”.
THIS JUST IN….. Shatner will be in the movie, but it will likely be in just one frame, like in a mind-meld sequence, so we will have to watch VERY carefully to catch it…. Ok, maybe not.
you poor poor sick deluded people, oh how I love you all..
I can tell you now, because I didn’tsign a non disclosure agreement, that Shatner WILL appear in the film. He will be doing a sort of George Peppard role.
shatner will be wearing the Gorn suit… more than that would give way too much of the plot.
now please settle down ;)
Whats the betting that Shatner will be playing George Kirk Snr.?
In fact, I’d bet lots and lots of money on Shatner appearing as his James Kirk’s father.
#183—If you find any takers, bring lots and lots of cash to the premeire…
I bet Shatner will be in the theater watching.
It was my impression back in October that Shatner’s comments increased in frequency and desperation the closer it got to the writer’s strike.
To me, that implies that the door was open in his mind as well, and he was hoping to provoke some closure on the matter.
I believe Shatner when he says he knew nothing - he knew exactly what we did. That JJ. and Orci were leaving the door open, if only slightly ajar.
He was like the rest of us. He was hoping to see Shatner as Kirk one more time.
It was a great opportunity, now seemingly lost.
That said, this is new movie, with so much talent behind it, is the best we could have hoped for Star Trek.
I’m happy regardless over their missteps over my favourite Star Trek actor.
I have to take issue with all those who deride Generations as rubbish. If you don’t like the fact that Generations featured the death of James T. Kirk (lest we forget, in a noble and heroic sacrifice to save the population of Veridian IV), then fine. If (like me) you were and still are upset over the destriction of the proud and beautiful Enterprise-D by a 20-year old Bird of Prey, fine.
But Generations had lots of good stuff in it. Picard’s grief over the death of his brother and nephew, his introspection to Troi, making reference to All Good Things, Data’s emotion chip, Dr. Crusher taking a dip in the holo-ocean, the Enterprise-B, Demora Sulu, Malcolm McDowell’s excellent performance as Dr. Soran, the excellent music and special effects, not to mention Kirk’s impassioned speech to Picard about staying on the bridge of the Enterprise and making a difference - these were all great things about a very good movie. No, it wasn’t Wrath of Khan, but it wasn’t Final Frontier either.
I was sorry to see Kirk die, just like everyone else. But Shatner’s time is over. I’ve been watching Shatner as Kirk since I was a little boy in the early 1970s, and nothing can take those memories away. When the Enterprise-A warped off into the sunset at the end of ST VI, I grieved that there would be no more adventures of the original crew. I didn’t miss Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley, Doohan, Takei, Nichols, or Koenig, as much as I respect them and their work - I missed Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Sulu, Uhura, and Chekov. Nothing could make me more excited in the realm of Trek than the thought of seeing my old childhood friends on screen again. So they don’t look or sound exactly like they did when I was young - I can live with that. Pine et al. have some very large shoes to fill, but I for one am willing and eager to give them that chance.
128. Tom
Actually, my prediction was a slightly snarky joke aimed at the Shatner fanatics. I really did NOT believe that it would happen; I was playing. But if it had, I would have gladly taken credit for it. : )
Oh and one other thing about Generations - let’s say Picard had left the Nexus 10 minutes earlier and “slapped the cuffs” on Soran, or left the Nexus several days or weeks earlier and stopped him on the Amagosa Observatory - what then? Now you have 2 Picards - one on the bridge of the Enterprise-D, and another taking care of Soran - how do you resolve this situation? Having 2 Picards at once would not be a good thing - we already have Thomas Riker out there.
I realize this isn’t a thread about Generations, but I wonder if people have thought about that.
Seriously folks, let’s have William Shatner back to reprise the role just one more time, that death he suffered in “Generations” was not a good way to end the character.
For shame, Paramount.
I don’t think Mr Shatner will be in the movie. As for his “i don’t do cameo’s” statment, I think that Generations was for him. He signed up to take the cheque killed Kirk and now Star Trek is on the verge of a huge (fingers crossed) comback, he wants a pieace of it.
Maybe he is in it. I would love to see how they brought him in. Who wouldn ‘t to see ur child hood hero in action again.
132 and 133. Mark and Sam
Actually, I AM old. I was not critisizing Shatner for his age or girth; rather, I was pointing out that he is no longer well-suited to play a starship captain. I remember Richard Arnold equating the Starship Enterprise with the Enterprise aircraft carrier. Would you expect a 78 year old to be in command of that ship? Of course not!
Shatner is now at the top of his game in Boston Legal, playing a role that is tailor-made for his talents. I want something fresh and new for Star Trek, with just a bit of nostalgia mixed in. Nimoy will provide that. Anything more would be overkill and a huge stretch that the audience wouldn’t accept.
Firstly according to Shatner, in numerous interviews, there was never ANY offers made; so every time this cameo thing comes up I am left shaking my head, wondering why it is people criticize Bill Shatner for not taking such a role (when we don’t even know if it was, or even was GOING to be offered) or ….gasp… criticizing him for saying something that may have “scared” the producers off. In my opinion it would be almost insulting to ask him to do a cameo in a film staring the character that he created and embodied for all these years, especially since the list of people given cameos, and uncredited, or walk on appearances, by the powers that be on this movie, has seemed enormous. Why should Bill Shatner settle for that same kind of role?
As #174 Disappointed said
‘If you people don’t understand why Shatner fans are mad, I don’t know what to tell you. The bottom line is that not only is this such a touchy issue due to the crappy ending of Generations, but it was made worse by writers and producers coming on this site and acting as if they were trying to get him in the movie, when clearly, that was not the case”
I couldn’t agree more.
#193 — If I offended you I’m sorry. I have just read one line too many saying how “long-in-the-tooth” Shatner is. Do I think there could be a role for him in this movie — YES!!! But like I said prior I am way over the fact that he is not in the movie. Shatner is still having an amazing career — and G-d Bless Him for That!
Script leak should pop up soon.
Read every post so far. Not really going to touch this one again except to say how much we truly understand and feel the passion expressed here on all sides of the issue.
A true Kobayashi Maru.
#197
Understood.
So, on to the NEXT movie then?
Still have to finish this one…
;-)
You are alright Boborci!
#201 Agreed.
Hope they get a chance for number 2.
I think that we ought to remember that this movie is not just aimed at Trek aficionados, but at casual viewers and people who are new to the franchise. The causal viewer and the first-time viewer will, no doubt, have heard of Captain Kirk. However—and this is the important point—they are highly unlikely to know that Kirk died over 70 years after Spock, McCoy, Scotty, etc., as a result of being trapped in the timeless energy ribbon, the Nexus, in the 1994 film Star Trek: Generations! If Kirk were resurrected, for it to make any sense, let alone have any impact, you would need to know this long, complicated back-story. And if only the hardcore fans know this back-story, only they will understand and care about the plot. The problem, of course, is that a film that only appeals to the hardcore fans is not going to revitalise the franchise, which is a fundamental purpose of this film.
I am a huge fan of Shatner; however, the story is all-important. Putting Shatner in this film is just too complicated. It would take too much exposition, and would do nothing for the film except to please a vocal section of hardcore fans who are disappointed with the way the character was killed-off in an earlier film. In fact, it would ruin the origin-story of Trek XI. If Alex and Bob give us a fun character-driven story with great drama and action sequences (look no farther than The Wrath of Khan), then everyone will be delighted. The action is key to attracting new fans: this was the success of Star Wars.
My pressing concern, though, is that the writers respect Trek, especially the Kirk-Spock-McCoy dynamic. This is where the story should be. Uhura, for example, should not save the day or start kicking Gorn-butt! This is totally out of character and above her rank. If we want strong female characters, as I do, then we should look elsewhere. Incidentally, Bob, Janeway was not the first female captain: in The Voyage Home, the Captain of the Saratoga is female. We could have more female captains; we could have prominent female instructors at the academy. What we cannot have is a Communications Officer who thinks she is Captain of the Enterprise or the star attraction; i.e., a case of the George Takei syndrome. Why should Uhura be any more prominent than Sulu or checkov? That she is a woman is no valid reason. Also, let’s remember that Star Trek is not just about sexual equality, it is, among other things, about religious and racial equality, too.
So ends my rant. Thanks for reading, especially Bob and the team. It’s great that you care enough about the fans to find out what they really think.
Alec.
With over 200 post I hope JJ and company are keeping notes. Fans are still interested it Shatner making an appearance.
“Incidentally, Bob, Janeway was not the first female captain: in The Voyage Home, the Captain of the Saratoga is female. We could have more female captains; we could have prominent female instructors at the academy.”
203. Alec - August 26, 2008
Yes, indeed. I meant no LEAD of one of the major properties had before been a female captain. I misspoke… thanks for letting me clarify.
Star Trek with Nimoy and not Shatner just won’t feel right.
It’s like a Beatles reunion with McCartney but not inviting Lennon to sing even though he is begging to do a duet. Why just have Nimoy in a Star Trek film when Shatner wants to be involved? Two icons is better than one.
Sorry Bob, but you guys dropped the ball on this one. There had to have been a way to get Shatner involved on some level.
I completely understand the need to get new fans involved with a franchise that has been faltering, but what about throwing a bone to the people who grew up with Shatner as Kirk? A 30 second cameo to show that his character survived that ridiculous death he was given would be more than enough. That shouldn’t be that hard in a film that uses alternate time lines and time travel.
I’m sure the movie will be great + I wish everyone involved nothing but the best, but it’s feels like a huge missed opportunity.
#202:
If Shatner is not in this film, then the reason for this is the same reason why he cannot be in the next, or any other, Trek film. The resurrection would require too much exposition, which would be totally lost on so many people. Besides, what would be the point in resurrecting Shatner’s Kirk? How would it impact upon this new crew? Shatner’s Kirk would have to time-travel back to his earlier self (this continues to confound me). I.e., substituting Nimoy for Shatner, a carbon-copy of Trek XI! This would be bad business. Trek XI will establish this NEW crew. In the subsequent films, they will drive the story: neither Nimoy nor Shatner will then be required to pass the torch.
I’m sad to say that I suspect that we have seen the last of the great William Shatner as James T. Kirk. However, as another person observed, we have already have two send-offs for him: The Undiscovered Country; Generations. Great though he was, I think that is enough.
“Actually, I AM old…”
…So am I. Just put the ‘phones on tigher, crank up Quadrophenia, The Wall or Who’s Next and let the little punks go play with themselves *by* themselves.
:-)
Some people can’t accept that Shatner isn’t in the movie, Some people think it’s better that he’s not in the movie.
I think it’s better that he’s not, HOWEVER, as i indicated in post 48, it would be a cool nod to undo his ignoble death from generations as a simple time travel abberation after the credits role. it doesn’t require exposition, it doesn’t impact the story telling of the movie.
Any fan worth his salt should appreciate the idea. It’s simple and fun and undoes one of the most poorly conceived film scenes of all time. It’s a simple, fun thing to do, and if the parties involved are all legally and financially agreeable to it, I can’t imagine they wouldn’t.
All the denial of his participation, leads me to believe that maybe he has a cameo. The rest of the movie doesn’t need Shat or the “old Kirk” character, it’s unncessary and complicates the story they want to tell.
Not sure why so many people can’t get past it. It’s cool either way.
Doug L.
“The resurrection would require too much exposition”
…Are you kidding? There’s a really simple way to bring back James T. Kirk:
Spock: “It appears that in order to save the universe, I must go back in time and stop Nero before he changes the timeline.”
Q: “By golly, you Vulcans may be humorless, but sometimes your logic astounds even *me*! But you’re going to need help, O Eared One.”
Spock: “Agreed. But what sort of help do you propose?”
[Q snaps fingers]
Kirk: “What th…dammit, Spock! I was busy falling off a bridge! What am I doing here?”
Spock: “Admiral?….JIM!”
Q: “There. That should suffice. And I’ll tell you what, Spock. You and Kirk pull off this errand for me and stop Nero, and he gets to stay alive.”
…There. Simple as that. Granted, there’ll be some wankers out there who’ll whine, but who cares? Kirk would be back, alive and ready to die heroically alone all over again.
#207 “Great though he was, I think that is enough.”
And now that we have reached consensus, this thread will undoubtedly end after this final post.
159. Xai
How P.C. of you, indicative of your generation. Isn’t it past your Bed time Son?
nope 211 not ending yet… I’m waiting for comments on my post.
Shat could have a cameo without even touching on his resurrection or impacting the story over all.
The audience isn’t so stupid that they couldn’t figure out the ramifications of time travel, and the audience newbies he probably never even saw Generations wouldn’t even need to be clued in in the first place.
Just a quirky little end scene that the insiders would get, and the newbies would appreciate simply cuz it was the original captn kirk.
it’s not that hard to swallow. you wouldn’t even need dialogue for a this scene. it’s all impact.
anybody out there feel me on this???!
Doug L.
sorry couple typos, i’m watching the DNC while i type. Doug L
#210
PLEASE do not mention Q. I enjoyed his exploration of humanity; but I hope the script for Trek XI is sound enough not to need a get-out-of-jail-free card in the form of an omnipotent being who can tie up all the loose ends with a click of his fingers whenever the plot needs him to.
Generations is not my favourite film; but it is underrated. The Nexus was a clever, genuinely Sci-Fi concept that united the two iconic captains of Star Trek. The film is part of Trek canon. Kirk’s death is, therefore, part of Trek canon. Perhaps people should accept this and move on with their lives? Kirk died as he had lived: he made a difference. He risked all to prevent a desperate scientist from launching a missile that would have killed MILLIONS of innocent people. That is a heroic death. That is a significant and meaningful death. I think that, because of Kirk’s legendary career and iconic status, fans would have been disappointed with pretty much any death scene.
212. The Last Maquis - August 26, 2008
159. Xai
“How P.C. of you, indicative of your generation. Isn’t it past your Bed time Son?”
My generation?
I’m 47, and I was taught that you stand up for your opinion without insults and derogatory remarks about others.
Apparently that was not taught everywhere.
Doug L
Well, the thing I liked More Than any other Idea was “The Guardian of Fo