Orci & Kurtzman: Star Trek Very True To Canon – Even Books September 19, 2008
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Books, Orci/Kurtzman, Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback
Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman have a lot of things going on right now with their new show Fringe, the new movie Eagle Eye (opening next weekend), the next Transformers movie and a little thing called Trek. The pair talk about all of it in a new interview with Crave, and regarding Trek, they make some interesting comments about canon.
Excerpts from Crave Interview
Crave Online: When you write a Star Trek script, how awesome is it to see J.J. built the set?
Alex Kurtzman: It’s insane. It’s just insanity. The fact that somehow we’ve inherited that mantle is insane. It’s such a responsibility. We take it so seriously and between all of us, Bob and me and Damon Lindelof and Bryan Burk and J.J., there are different degrees of fandom and different degrees of knowledge and different perspectives on what Trek is. It’s a really good mix of people because I think it will ultimately allow us to stay very true to canon and also bring something new.
Crave Online: Are you tempted to write in dramatic pauses for Kirk?
Alex Kurtzman: [Laughs] No, because the tricky part about it, and this is actually hard I think on all the actors, is the actors who played those parts in the original series and established those characters, are legendary. Everybody knows those actors and everybody knows those characters. So you have to be consistent with that if you are going to cast new people in those roles and yet, you have to bring something new to the mix. So the actors were walking this very tricky line of not giving a cartoony performance that’s really mimicking the original actors, and bringing their own thing to the table.
Crave Online: J.J. was marveling at how you established Kirk and Spock’s bond
Alex Kurtzman: It’s the most gratifying thing I think for us about the movie is watching that.
Crave Online: How did you conceive of it and how was it never explored before?
Alex Kurtzman: We did a lot of reading of the books. I think we consider the books canon to a large degree so it’s very important to us to stay consistent. But there is a bit of a hole and there’s actually different mythologies about their history so it’s a matter of staying consistent but also figuring out how you can play around a little bit anchored by the rules
Much much more from the pair on Trek, Transformers 2 and Fringe at Crave.
Books?
Unlike Star Wars, the Star Trek books have never been considered part of the official canon, but this is not the first time the subject of how the books relate to the film has been brought up. In an interview with TrekMovie last year (before filming started), Orci talked about how important the books are to him. Here is the exchange
TrekMovie.com: In another interview you mentioned Trek books. So have you read many of them?
Roberto Orci: Tons of them. I have them all in my room.
TrekMovie.com: Is that because Paramount sent you all of them?
Roberto Orci: No no no, these are things I have read for pleasure. Some of them I have read many times, never imagining I would be a part of it. When I found myself being paid to re-read those books – you don’t get luckier than that. That is a blessing.
TrekMovie.com: So what are a couple of your favorites?
Roberto Orci: My favorite one is "Prime Directive" and I would say "Spock’s World" is my other favorite. I saw your interview with Judith and Garfield Reeves Stevens and I think they are great. I have read "Prime Directive" three or four times and I think it is one of the best Star Trek stories ever…period. Here is an interesting tidbit. In casting we have to give sides out to actors [scenes from scripts]. But since we are being so secretive we don’t want to give real scenes from the movie so a lot of the scenes we have been using are from their books.
TrekMovie.com: Of course the books are not officially part of Star Trek canon, but as fans of the books are you guys going to grab any elements and give them little mentions in the film…essentially canonizing them?
Roberto Orci: We are actually still pouring through and we are going to do stuff like that for sure. Because it would be an homage to my and Damon [Lindelof]’s view of Star Trek.
There is actually already evidence influence of the novels on the film. Jennifer Morrison is playing James T. Kirk’s mother and her name ‘Winona Kirk’ was established only in Trek novels.
Kurtzman and Orci at at the TV Guide Fall Preview parties – Fox at the Paley Center on September 5th (WireImage)
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Comments»
Thanks for the article, Anthony.
On the lighter side…’MORE’ tag, where are youuu? ;-)
I am so encouraged by this news. Sheesh, these guys are harder core fans than many of us!
Since they’re incorporating the books, one has to wonder whether McCoy’s ex-wife and daughter, Joanna will be mentioned or even featured in the film
My saying of the day:
Don’t think about canon so much…. just make us feel Star Trek!
Cheers,
amb
The books probably contain many different ideas as to how things started or played out.
I’m not a fan of the books personally, and don’t consider them Canon.
Wherever the inspiration comes from, lets just get a good story on the big screen.
Even books? Oh no!
Cool, Making Canon out of something that isn’t Canon or even comeing up with Ideas from the books…
Bill
Hey. These guys are real Hard core trek fans. I have read over 150 Trek Novals and i loved all of them. I consider my self to be hard core as well and I also loved the Book Prime Directive. Though there are some differences in that book and First Contact. But thats ok. These guys are true Fans of the show and if anyone says trek is in trouble then we need to get the guys in white coates because you need your head examined.This is going to be fantastic. Long Live The Terran Empire.
This is the first thing I have heard about the movie that has actually made me feel like it is in good hands.
OK, I’ve just purchased Prime Directive at Amazon…. :)
Seriously,
I’m getting tired of hearing them hype this film up to become the second coming in Hollywood… Can’t they just for ONCE tell us when to expect the Trailer that will make us decide that everything they’ve been saying might be right or wrong?
Take that, haters! Awesome to read this. The Reeves-Stevens are a Trek national treasure. Having the ’supreme court’ heap such praise upon them makes my day.
I used to read a lot of Star Trek books when I was younger, they had a lot of good stuff in it, but after a while all the contradictions and plot holes got to me and I never looked back.
PS Reeves-Stevens have brought a lot of great work to Trek!
11. The Insider –
“Seriously,
I’m getting tired of hearing them hype this film up to become the second coming in Hollywood… Can’t they just for ONCE tell us when to expect the Trailer that will make us decide that everything they’ve been saying might be right or wrong?”
Oh relax. They don’t have any control over when trailers are released. They’re *writers* not in marketting!
11. The Insider -
And just how can we decide — from a friggin’ 30-second spot — “that everything they’ve been saying might be right or wrong”?
Damn it, I’ll say it: I have a total “I’m not gay but I wish I were” man-crush on Roberto Orci.
The genies out of the bottle – I can’t take it back!!!!
I’m glad there’s a little ‘book influence.’ Among my fondest childhood memories is regular trips to a local bookstore during the time when James Blish was novelizing the TOS scripts, or when his thought-provoking ‘Spock Must Die’ original novel came out. When I couldn’t get there on my own, I’d scrape up 60 cents from my allowance and have a buddy pick up the latest tome because the school bus dropped him off right in front of the bookstore. : )
Granted, Blish’s work was based on canon Trek, but he took liberties here and there — sometimes for dramatic license, sometimes because he was working from early drafts of the scripts. It will be fun to see how much ‘written Trek’ shows up on the big screen.
The guys behind Star Trek 11 have a lot of canon to research. 40 years of canon. Even though I want their jobs, something like that sort of turns me off.
At least they didn’t say they think the Peter Pan records are canon.
Diane Duane!
Whoop!
I am so excited to see Eagle Eye. I can’t wait for it to come out next week. I find that I like Bob & Alex’s writing style. And seeing these interviews just make me more excited for May 2009.
Any chance for a trailer during Eagle Eye? They say the movie will be in the can within a couple weeks. They must have a trailer by now. It doesn’t have to show much from the movie, but be a teaser with the cast would be great.
As long as they aren’t incorporating any of the slash fiction I’m good…
\not that there is anythin wrong with that. :)
Roberto Orci: “Tons of them. I have them all in my room.”
Time to move out, Bob!
I am sure you must have more than enough money for a bigger place. Perhaps one with a library? ; )
@ 15 & 16
First of all, I’m relaxed unless you’ve been gulping a barrel of your usual coca cola, I don’t see why you’d consider me as being tense.
All I’m saying is that it would be NICE to hear some news about the trailer… and while you think you know what it is to be in the movie business, I can tell you that they know full well when to expect the trailer, but probably isn’t allowed to say so. You’re partly right in that it’s got something to do with the marketing dep. They need to assess which movie would fit the bill. So… that’s correct, but for them NOT knowing anything about it is wrong. They are a very big deal of this picture, unlike in the old days when the writers more or less exited the project when it began, here they are on from day one to the final release date.
@ 16…
And what we can decide from a TRAILER (you must be talking about a TEASER which is in fact nothing but a 30 or less teaser)…
Anyway what we can decide from a trailer is the scenes which would add to the texture, feel, acting, style, effects, overall atmosphere… etc. But I guess you don’t much understand trailers. You can make a dumb trailer or an intelligent one… Trust me… this one will be worked on so that it will say more than most do… This trailer will probably run for about 2 min and will have to have enough info and meat in it to keep the fans calm but at the same time very excited. After all… you seem to have forgotten that the movie was pushed to next year and not this year… this also adds to what they need to show in order to ensure the hype lasts that long.
They can’t be spending all their time answering rumors… They’ll release a trailer that will make people happy, excited and it will serve as a cure for all the tense anticipation on this film.
I’m sure I’m wasting my time telling you this anyway…
I finally feel that this project has been in good hands.
Bob has read some great old-school Trek books. Hopefully, “How Much for Just the Planet?” made the cut.
I just have more and more faith in this team, I I cannot wait to see the damn thing!
Interesting! Prime Directive is one of my favorite books too, so that’s a good sign to me.
I’m very glad to hear that the writers are so into canon, especially after reading JJ’s statement about how he wasn’t all that into sticking perfectly to canon. But these statements give me some hope.
I for one, am hoping to hear the Romulans call themselves “Rihannsu” for once. That’d be enough to make the movie worth my money.
SPOCK’S WORLD is one of the best ST books I’ve ever read–and I’ve read about 80% of what was written before the mid 90s.
One theory: I believe SPOCK’S WORLD describes a connection between Uhura and Amanda Grayson–that they both developed the technology behind the Universal Translator. Kevin Smith’s remark that they’ve made Uhura interesting actually made me think of this the other day.
Isn’t there also a mention of education by injection in this book–McCoy gets a shot of Messenger RNA that gradually fills his brain with the Vulcan language?
Can anyone confirm this or offer up memories of SPOCK’S WORLD?
‘Prime Directive’ is definitely a good one.
These interviews make me very impatient to see the final result.
#28 – Wouldn’t the universal translator automatically translate “Rihannsu” to “Romulan,” though?
I’m more of a “Federation” guy than a “Prime Directive” fan, but the fact that they’re fans of the Reeves-Stevens and Diane Duane is good. Personally, I’d love it if the new movie takes something from Mike W. Barr & David Ross’ DC Comics Star Trek Annual #1 (A version of Kirk’s first mission on the Enterprise). If that happens, I’ll have a geekgasm right there in the theater. :)
#31 – No more so than it automatically translates “Qapla’!” into “Success!”. It seems to somehow realize when the actual word needs said in its native language.
I sooooo cant wait to see this,,
:-D
arrrr…
true ta’ canon be it?
maybe this time they blow up tha’ death starrr a might quicker…
Arrrrrrrr…
I’m glad they are staying true to canon I suppose, but I really don’t get all upset over it. If it’s a good movie, I wouldn’t care if this was a complete reboot with no connection to old canon or not.
“Alex Kurtzman: We did a lot of reading of the books. I think we consider the books canon to a large degree “
;…Just as long as it’s not the original version of Killing Time!
If Chris Pine doesn’t have dramtic pauses as Kirk…won’t Nimoy as Spock think the captain is possessed by Janice Lester or some such??
Books? Gene Rodenberry is prolly flipping in the grave.
#18
I remember buying all the old Bantam ST books when they came out. I haven’t bought any in years. I think the last I bought was “The Eugenics Wars”, which I really liked.
As I recall, the Blish books were almost like a Readers Digest version of the episodes. Very compressed.
I also enjoyed the novelizations of the animated series episodes by Alan Dean Foster (Star Trek: Log 1 – 10). I found it amusing that the first books in that series had several episodes. As the series went along the author was forced to stretch the episodes out. But he did an excellent job IMHO.
Logs 1-6 featured three episodes, while 7-10 were one episode each.
In the early 70’s I was working at a Texas radio station and attended a Star Trek convention in Dallas (featuring David Gerrold, George Takei and Ted Cassidy). I remember interviewing Gerrold and asked him how he felt about Foster novelizing his TAS episode “More Tribbles, More Troubles”. His initial response was he didn’t think anyone other than the original author should novelize an episode.
He later tracked me down and asked that I not air that particular response and I obliged.
Those were the days. I think I still have that interview (and Takei’s) on cassette some where.
Regards.
I’m glad he mentions ‘Prime Directive’, I actually think that and ‘Probe’ are two of the best Trek books written. I didn’t care much for ‘Spock’s World’ but I know it’s a fan favorite.
Hmmm.
The mention of PRIME DIRECTIVE is the most encouraging thing I’ve heard so far about the upcoming film.
FEDERATION and THE ASHES OF EDEN are also favorites.
I totally loved Trek books as a kid.
I hope that for future generations, those books are translated into full digital medium. Maybe, putting ALL the books on a DVD or BLUE Ray disc wouldn’t be a bad idea. I know I’d certainly dish out a few bucks for an easy to handle index of Trek literary works that I could take on a plane and throw on my laptop or other media device.
Maybe even adding the audio books as well.
That would be a nice gift for any Trekkie.
@29 – Yeah, McCoy took a chemical learning course in Vulcan in “Spock’s World.” Said it made him sicker than a dog.
Well, if more and more books find some way into canon like ST:XI, I just might start to find interest in them…..
But only if they transform all that plain text into say…….moving pictures… …and also how’bout…..sound
“Prime Directive” is superb. There are many excellent Trek novels, but I agree with these writers and with many of you here that “Prime” is among the best Trek stories ever (on page or screen).
A modified version of it would make a heck of a movie too…
My Faveroite is the Invasion series. Make 4 movies based on the invasion series. The first is called Invasion first Strike from the tos series. . The second is from tng called Invasion The soldiors of fear. The 3rd is from ds9. Invasion Times enemy. The 4th is from voyager and is Called Invasion The final fury. This is the best of all the Books on Crossover of the 4 series. (This was before Enterprise) Now that would be a great series of Movies with 4 Of the series on The Big Screen.
If you have not read these books then you should. Very entertaining books.
@ 37. Jeffrey S. Nelson: Nice.
Hey Mr. Orci,
Have you read Federation by Judith and Gar Reeves Stevens? That was a good one too.
I always thought if they decided to do a DS9 direct-to-video or TV movie, the Millenium books by the Reeves Stevens would provide a great basis for a storyline.
It’s interviews such as this one that put my concerns about this movie to rest. It’s always good to hear that they are respecting Trek’s past and canon. I look forward to 2009 when all these interviews are done and we can finally see the film!
Still cautiously optimistic… but now looking forward to it more! :-)
@29: I loved “Spock’s World” — anything written by Diane Duane is instant win. Remeber the bit with the glass spider? Or when McCoy threatened to bite a guy in the leg on Federation-wide TV? Good times.
Oh, and to all those who don’t like the idea of taking inspiration from books for whatever reason: Trust me, you’d much rather J.J. et al. to be inspired by “Spock’s World” than “Spock’s Brain”. :)
I read a bunch of the James Blish books back in school and I would often read one right after I’d watch the episode on TV. I seem to remember the Doomsday Machine being an awesome novelization. “Spock Must Die!” was also amazing.
I also remember reading Vonda McIntyre’s “Enterprise” and I’ve wondered for a while if any elements from that story will make the film… it is about the E under both Pike and a young Kirk… right time frame, Sam Kirk is in the book too as I recall…
Can we get the damn trailer please I’m dying to see what this is like.
I like the idea of bringing in some good stuff from the novels. It worked well for Star Wars, too. Coruscant for example is a concept taken from the novels.
I like Spock’s World. My favorite is the short story collection Constellations, though.
i think i figured out their angle now…. we all know spock had a very tough relationship with sarek, to the point where he basically “ran away” and joined starfleet. this was explored through spock/sarek dialog in the movies, and of course Journey to Babel in TOS and the sarek & Unification eps in TNG.
so, now in the JJ Abrams movie, kirk gets a drunk and abusive uncle/father figure. seems to me that this is the angle they are going to use to give kirk and spock something serious to identify with and make them “brothers” in that sense.
i hope they do not gloss over the fact that spock served on the enterprise 12-13 years PRIOR to kirk under captain pike. (TOS: The Cage/ The Menagerie) i don’t think they will, but that’s a fairly long gap of time over which their friendship can’t really develop easily. how will they overcome this?
kirk was serving on other ships (TOS: Obsession) while spock was serving under pike. how often could they actually spend time together building a brotherly friendship? spock was obsessed with being vulcan all throughout these years, so it makes it tough to see how they could have bonded so tightly before serving on the Enterprise together.
i always assumed that spock was much older, even though very close to kirk in friendship and command, that kirk “inherited” him on the enterprise along with scotty, sulu, etc. after Pike was hurt. i wouldn’t mind them explaining how kirk becomes the youngest (or at least one of the youngest) captains in the fleet.
I always liked Margaret Wander Bonano’s stuff, especially Strangers from the Sky (her proper version of Probe is on her website, btw!) Diane Carey’s early stuff like Battlestations! Dreadbought and especially Final Frontier were good fun. I loved her characterisation of George Kirk, Robert April and Sarah Poole. Vonda N McIntyre’s movie novelisations were also good reading!
I’m really glad they’ve used details from some of the novels. I feel that there are far too many Trek books on the market now and they often contradict each other. Those early days, especially pre-TNG were a great time for TOS books, as there were no restrictions on how big and wild the Trek universe could be and what could happen in it. Inevitably, TOS-related material became more limited when it was made a historical period.
It’s good that they haven’t ignored the novels. Whether Paramount considers them canon or not is fundamentally a financial decision made to free the hands of future script writers.
But if something uniquely established in the novels can be smoothly brought into a film, why not?
I’d disagree with #58 (Dom). The number of Trek novels actually in print at any time is not that dramatic. People have been writing Trek books for 40 years,however, so the Trek stacks in, say, a used bookstore can reflect that. From my readings, I don’t believe the novels contradict each other. The series are supervised by a very small group of editors whose control of consistency and canon-in-the-novels is really quite effective. The stable of Trek authors appear to cooperate and collaberate well with each other to ensure they are laying out a consistent look at Trek. Finally, with exceptions, almost all new Trek novels are written as part of one of the so-called relaunchs, advancing the storyline into the future beyond the last time it was depicted on screen. To my eye, those novelsare building canon that is as legitimate as anything done on TV or the movies, especially since the chances of seeing the original casts reassembled for any new shows is essentially zero.
I loved Prime Directive, definately one of the best (if not the best) tales ever told for the TOS crew. I’d rate Strangers from the Sky a pretty close second.
I find this very reassuring. If the new movie has a good script, that’s certainly a large part of the battle. Go Team Abrams! :)
BOOKS ARE NOT CANON, ONLY SERIES AND MOVIES.
Perhaps the alternate universe or universes that have been rumored to be part of the next Star Trek film will be explained as having taken place in the books?
Maybe that is a way they can make those books canon from a certain point of view?
I agree that “Spock Must Die!” was a stunner. Might make a good movie someday, there was a lot to it if I recall.
#6 Voodoo:
I don’t think we’re going to see anything in the film that requires a lot of backstory or narrative before it makes sense to people who have never watched Trek on TV or seen a movie. That would certainly include throwing in the alternate univese gambit.
The novels can, and the old series could, assume the audience’s familiarity with the characters and conventions of Trek. This movie can’t.
For my money, Yesterday’s Child was one of the best Trek books…
Oh for the poll…I think Orci and Kurtzman should be in charge of any new Trek series…
#57 — i always assumed that spock was much older, even though very close to kirk in friendship and command, that kirk “inherited” him on the enterprise along with scotty, sulu, etc. after Pike was hurt.
One problem with your thought here: Kirk didn’t assume command of Enterprise after Pike was hurt. It’s said in “Menagerie” that Pike was injured a few months before that episode. Pike was promoted to Fleet Captain and handed the baton to Kirk, as it were, a couple of years prior to the accident.
I don’t follow, are Star Trek books considered canon no matter who wrote it?
Another book from the authors of “Prime Directive” that I highly reccomend is “Federation”. Judith and Garfield are masters at capturing the feel of the Trek universe and the dialogue of the characters. Their books would have made phenominal episodes or movies. I’m glad to hear that the new team t the helm are using these for reference material.
By the way…what happened to the Countdown clock on this site? I haven’t seen it during my last few log ins.
Wonderful article, Anthony…as always.
Please excuse my typos in my previous post and disregard my question. I see the countdown is only on the main page…duh!…blonde moment. :-)
the books are horrible IMHO nothing but fan/author ’service’ “OH WHAT IF KIRK WENT BAD YEA LETS WRITE A BOOK!!”
uhm no..
Some of the books are very good indeed. Inevitably, many are churned out and average.
Got to admit though, I’d have thought they’d ditch most of the book series after the new movie. To my twisted mind, it would make far more sense to ditch all the Shatner/Nimoy TOS books, 24th Century Trek books and Enterprise books next year and market heavily on spin-off books from the new movie!
25. The Insider –
“@ 15 & 16
First of all, I’m relaxed unless you’ve been gulping a barrel of your usual coca cola, I don’t see why you’d consider me as being tense.
All I’m saying is that it would be NICE to hear some news about the trailer…”
Well then if you’re so relaxed maybe you could stop YELLING and DEMANDING the trailer you’re acting like you DESERVE. You should realize by now that all this impatient foot-stamping isn’t going to make Paramount release a trailer any quicker. Bob and Roberto have been giving interviews and visiting us here for a year now, they know everyone wants to see a trailer…and the Enterprise…and a cast photo. They are not going to cave in and say “okay, you guys have worn us down enough, here’s what you want”. Again, it’s not their decision. As to at least telling us when to expect a trailer I am sure they are enjoying the buildup and it will be sprung upon us very shortly before it appears in theatres — probably the very week before. And again, they are no doubt sworn to secrecy in the meantime as they have been about everything else.
I am sick to death at how every thread on one of these articles turns into whining and demanding of trailers, Enterprises and cast photos. I want to see them too but all this bitchin’ and moanin’ is irritating as hell.
The novels always get a bad rap because, historically, they have not allowed true character development for the series’ main characters. So an author would create “Ensign Joe Bloggs” and bring him in for a massive character arc while Kirk and Spock, etc., go through the motions. I’m told that things have changed of late.
But the books must still bow to the aired episodes as canon. which means “When the Bough Breaks” is canon, but “Spock’s World” is not.
72.
(I meant Bob and Alex).
72, Izbot
Way to go!
I have to imagine that writing for Star Trek is the most grueling thing a writer could ever do, because of the immense demands and expectations Trek-fans tend to have. I’m not into Star Wars the way I am with Trek, so I don’t know if SW fans have the same high expectations and criticisms ST fans display. I think ST writers are right up there with other great risk-takers (military, police, firefighters, etc.), because if they don’t write a home run, they could be in big trouble! I wonder if Messrs. Orci & Kurtzman have lost any sleep over their Star Trek-baby, hoping and praying we Trek-fans will consider it a home run? I know I wouldn’t be able to sleep until May 2009… To think you’d have to go through this all over again, because the sequel has to be better than the first… I feel bad for you guys…
All expectations, criticisms, and kidding aside, I think it’s safe to say there are lots of folks like me who just love Star Trek, and we love you guys for taking this on, and we’re all very excited about this, and we’re sure it’s gonna be great!
Ooooh! I’d love to see a Deadnought Class starship on the big screen…
Um, if books are being considered canon, Kirk was brought back to life in a book, no?
58. Dom
” Diane Carey’s early stuff like Battlestations! Dreadbought and especially Final Frontier were good fun. I loved her characterisation of George Kirk, Robert April and Sarah Poole. ”
I agree. One of my favorite authors and Final Frontier is an under appreciated novel in my opinion. I liked the character of Drake as well.
Others might not agree, but I would highly suggest readers to search these out.
The character of George Kirk, as shown on the cover of the novel FInal Frontier, is spot on with Chris Hemsworth.
I don’t think that they are saying all books would be canon. That would be a nightmare trying to keep up with all of that, not to mention that since they are not considered canon, a lot of books now contradict what’s been seen on screen. The same goes for TAS.
However, there are some books that don’t violate canon, and over the years many of the things introduced in books and TAS have been used as canon.
One of the fun things about reading TOS books is that you don’t need to worry about SFX and when written today, there’s just better understanding of technology and science.
You know though, if we consider books canon, then Kirk’s alive in the 24th century =P
I liked that part about the actors going off of what came before but still putting their own spin on it. I was worried some of them might be completely ignoring what the other actors had done. But at the same time, I don’t want this to be “A Very Brady Movie” either.
Here’s hoping they don’t go against anything established in more recent trek novels, especially the ENT, TNG, DS9 and VOY relaunches, VGD or Titan. I mention the 24th century era novels since we know part of the story takes place then.
Are Kurtzman and Orci a couple???
#81 – They’re a [couple of GREAT WRITERS], and thankfully, fully-versed Star Trek fans who RESPECT what’s come before. That can only be a good thing, inasmuch as all of us have so many (millions of?) preconceived notions on what makes “good ‘Trek” nowadays.
Go ahead: beam us aboard, Bob and Alex!
I’ve gotta say, these guys sound pretty squared away. Impressive. Like others who’ve said the same here, this is the first real example (to me)that the franchise is in good hands.
Looking forward to May, and trying to convince my wife to go see a Trek movie. Should prove interesting….
#81 – not for nothing, but that pic does lend itself to that possibility…..
…not that there’s anything wrong with that.
I guess if they decide to use some material from the books as Canon then “The Return” would negate the necessity of coming up with a big explanation for Mr. Shatner to appear as an elderly Kirk, right?
Aw, these guys are charming. So nice that they like the books.
72:
Izbot.
We’re fans, first and foremost. I don’t think screaming about trailers will get one out faster. I also think that, if we didn’t scream about the trailer, JJ & Co. would be concerned, especially as they have an eye on this site.
It’s frustrating to wait, especially as we all had to stomach the 6-month delay. But if you can’t rant about the Trek trailer on a fansite called “Trekmovie.com,” then what’s the point?
81
I always introduce Alex as my first wife.
I’m LOL and choking on my beer. With Diane Duane chiming in as well! I was going say how much I loved “The Romulan Way,” but Bob Orci’s blown it (no pun intended).
Diane Duane, Chris Bennett, Bob Orci, JJ Abrams, David Mack….
All sorts of great people show up around here, huh?
Btw, Diane, just finished Rihannsu. Now THERE’S a good series for ya’! Though, I still don’t know how to pronounce half the names in there….
Excellent. I’ve read a lot of the books, and they shaped my view of the Trek universe quite a bit. Some of them are very rich and textured. Well done fellas, nice touch.
Diane Duane THE WOUNDED SKY one of my favorites!
I’m very psyched that they’ve worked hard to include material from the novels. IMNSHO, Trek in print–irrelevant of whether it’s considered canon (and I try to incorporate the material from the books and comics as much as possible, canon or no)–has been, on balance, considerably superior to Trek on film for a long time.
Bob Orci, you and I definitely share a love of both Prime Directive and Spock’s World (Hi, Diane! Nice to see you here. :) ), and the respective authors of each. I was delighted to see elements of both those novels brought into canonical Trek, especially in the 4th season of ENT, and I’m also very happy to see the novels’ influence in the upcoming film, too.
95,
True that. I’m really hoping that some of the post-Nemesis stuff shows up in the movie. President Bacco methinks? Nah, but that’d be a nice reference. There’s a lot of material to work with, Bob, hope it’s as epic as you say. Well, after Fringe, I’m POSITIVE it’ll be amazing.
The books have always been a great part. I’m one of the younger members of our small little society, so I’ve always tended to go for the more recent works and re-releases. I have yet to dig up “Spock’s World.”
61. Earl – September 20, 2008
“BOOKS ARE NOT CANON, ONLY SERIES AND MOVIES.”
Despite the CAPLOCK, which I assume you mistakenly had on and weren’t shouting… I read your post.
Your definition is correct, but did you actually read what he said?
Alex Kurtzman: “We did a lot of reading of the books. I think we consider the books canon to a large degree so it’s very important to us to stay consistent.”
He’s expressing an opinion of the writers, not stating an absolute.
Another opinion… For what I’ve seen, you seem to be a relatively new poster. First, welcome. Second… you seem to post with a “chip on your shoulder”. Why?
The “Insider” and Izbot.
Orci and Kurtzman are not only the writers, but 2 or the 3 executive producers. I think they know the “what and when” of this movie.
I do agree with Izbot.
Demands for a trailer, over and over get old and likely do little good. Bad Robot and Paramount have a timetable and no amount of a “I’m a fan and I deserve it” attitude gets it closer to today.
#80, I agree. Diane Carey’s Final Frontier was a fantastic story. Definately up there with Prime Directive.
“I guess if they decide to use some material from the books as Canon then “The Return” would negate the necessity of coming up with a big explanation for Mr. Shatner to appear as an elderly Kirk, right?”
Bingo!
Now, SHOW US THE DAMN SHIP ALREADY!!
Remember how they said they’d ‘be inspired by but not beholden to’ canon in some ways? i suspect that its possible they might make pike enterprise’s captain in the alternate timeline, which would be ironic given that aside from menagerie pikes enterprise run is in a way, another timeline…plus remember wat the head of starfleet said to kirk in st3, ‘the enterprise is over 20 years old…we feel her time is over’…he said over 20 years old, not over 40…
and in the mentioning that theyre canonizing elements of the novels thats how they could undo kirks death onscreen…by having nimoys spock mention or touch on events in shatner’s post-generations trek novels
101,
Again with the Caps Lock. As Xai said, yelling about it will not make the trailers and movie come any faster. Sit back and wait. Contrary to popular belief, time travel is not possible with our current level of technology. It is also impossible to change the rate at which time flows at.
Relax. Wait. Be patient. Use logic.
Prophets,
40 years is older than 20 years. Also, we will probably be seeing the construction of it at some point, perhaps.
Shatner is not coming back. Kirk died in a bad script. Such is the way of life.
yes technically 104, it is…although my point is i was stating how jj most likely approached things, not MY OPINION of hiw it should go…as for the kirk thing…I WAS NOT IMPLYING SHAT WAS COMING BACK…merely that by mentioning things they might SAY that kirk was resurrected by the romulans as shat did in his novels…and it was previously said in another thread that thered be 2 enterprises in this film, one much like the tos version and another, much more warlike version in an alternate timeline and pike would be in command of one of them
although i can see how you can think i did imply shat was returning given 101’s comment, which i ignored in making mine
What about “Entropy Effect”? I think that was the first Pocket Book novel. As I recall, it started with the murder of James Kirk. Spock spent the rest of the book jumping through time trying to undo it …
Actually, the line was , “The Enterprise is 20 years old…We feel her time is over.”
Obviously, it was a mistake in the dialogue—not the first, and probably not the last.
Spock served aboard the Enterprise under Pike’s command over a decade (13 years, I think) prior to the events of “The Menagerie”, and TSFS is 15 years after the events in “Space Seed”. Do the math, and it doesn’t add up.
Furthermore, some people (not me) accept the TAS contention that there was another captain of the Enterprise NCC-1701 prior to Chris Pike. Either way, the TSFS dialogue was a “canon” contradiction.
105. Thank The Prophets! –
“and it was previously said in another thread that thered be 2 enterprises in this film, one much like the tos version and another, much more warlike version in an alternate timeline and pike would be in command of one of them”
Whoever said that there would be two Enterprises in the movie doesn’t know what they’re talking about. That’s purely speculative.
108. Closettrekker -
I always choose to believe that the admiral didn’t even know how old Enterprise was — it further proved his indifference to Kirk, his ship and ‘Vulcan mysticism’.
>> “the books must still bow to the aired episodes as canon…”
And, why is this a problem?
Screen presentations of Trek need to maintain internal consistency for obvious reason. Since the same company owns all rights to the novels, that company gets to decide which parts of the novels are canon, and which parts are not. For all we know, Paramount might someday decide that everything written in the novels is canon.
If you can’t bring yourself to read a Trek novel because someone told you it isn’t canon, you are missing a lot of good Trek. Frankly, most of the Trek novels address times that the movies will never address.
It’s all make believe. Go with the flow.
102. Thank The Prophets! – September 20, 2008
“…and in the mentioning that theyre canonizing elements of the novels thats how they could undo kirks death onscreen…by having nimoys spock mention or touch on events in shatner’s post-generations trek novels”
They never said they were “canonizing” anything.
Alex Kurtzman: “We did a lot of reading of the books. I think we consider the books canon to a large degree so it’s very important to us to stay consistent.”
Kurtzman gave an opinion, not a rubber-stamp to the “books are canon” thought process. They found inspiration in some ST novels, not legislating canonical facts.
Izbot/109
The “2 Enterprises” thing was stated here a while ago by someone of authority, though who would command was not. Be nice if someone could find it.
I would assume that Kirk is successfully killed, and that the alternative timeline created by that event somehow leads to Pike’s warship, shown, perhaps during what would have been the Five Year Mission. Then, Spock-o comes back and fixes it so that Pike gets to rendez-vous with his Delta rays, and Kirk gets command in the timeline in which old Spock exists. Basic Trek!
Prophets, my apology. I did think that you were implying that you want Shat back. That is one of those things that I don’t want to even talk about. Every time that a Shatner thread pops up, everyone goes berserk over it.
Forget I said anything.
As for the Enterprises….. ya’ never know. There could, and probably will be, a nod towards ST: Enterprise (to sure up canon, or something like that). I’m not saying there will be, or that I know anything, just that there is certainly a way that it could be mentioned. The NX-01 might be a museum ship, since it was the first Warp 5 ship. Could’ve been kept for posterity.
DISCLAIMER:
Again, I am merely speculating and throwing out a possible theory as to how there could be 2 Enterprises shown in the film. These are not my personal beliefs, but rather a logical means for someone else’s speculation to exist. In no way do I represent Paramount Studios, JJ Abrams, Robert Orci, Alex Kurtzman, or the cast and crew of “Star Trek.” To my knowledge, there is only one (1) Starship Enterprise, NCC-1701.
Please don’t kill me.
#114. You are safe from the I.S.S Enterprise. We will not put you in the Agoniser booth. For now. My Faveroite Books Is the Invasion Series and Federation and Star Trek Enterprise The first Adventure. Those were great books and a lot of fun to read. In the Star Trek Enterprise we see How kirk Took Command and with Gary MItchell as His Best frend and they Get thrown Back to the 22nd Century. A good read and Could be Cannon if Done right.
” I remember interviewing Gerrold and asked him how he felt about Foster novelizing his TAS episode “More Tribbles, More Troubles”. His initial response was he didn’t think anyone other than the original author should novelize an episode.”
…Read: “He’s getting paid for it while I’m not.” Typical David Gerrold.
“Relax. Wait. Be patient. Use logic.”
…Screw logic. Most of us are sick of Abrams’ jerking us around by holding the trailer far longer than it should have been kept under wraps, and especially by not at least giving us a view of the Enterprise, just to ease our fears that he’s screwing things up. This is the same stunt he pulled with Cloverfield, and as we saw there was a *reason* he kept the monster under wraps – it sucked. Unless he gives us at least one complete beauty shot of the Enterprise, we’re going to think that maybe he’s fracked this up as well.
117. OM – September 20, 2008
“Relax. Wait. Be patient. Use logic.”
“…Screw logic. Most of us are sick of Abrams’ jerking us around by holding the trailer far longer than it should have been kept under wraps, and especially by not at least giving us a view of the Enterprise, just to ease our fears that he’s screwing things up.”
-Huh? There’s a deadline for previews?
And it’s up to Trek fans to make sure he’s not screwing things up? OM, be realistic. It comes when it comes and we’ve seen parts of the Enterprise already. And if he did show an Enterprise you thought “sucked”.. what then? Yell louder on Trekmovie.? I am sure he’s sitting at home making plans on how next to jerk around Trek fans.
“This is the same stunt he pulled with Cloverfield, and as we saw there was a *reason* he kept the monster under wraps – it sucked.”
-”We”? Your opinion. I had a great time. Some people like surprises. If you didn’t see Cloverfield…you didn’t see the monster until late in the film. It’s called suspense.
” Unless he gives us at least one complete beauty shot of the Enterprise, we’re going to think that maybe he’s fracked this up as well.”
-Well that’s gonna fix it. Threats and derogatory remarks.
My birthday is in May. I don’t expect previews or hints about my gifts in September.
AC Crispin — One of the best Trek writers ever.
#110—”I always choose to believe that the admiral didn’t even know how old Enterprise was — it further proved his indifference to Kirk, his ship and ‘Vulcan mysticism’. ”
A valid opinion. My only problem with that is that if Admiral Morrow would be invoved in the decision to decommission a storied vessel such as the Enterprise (and his position would seem to indicate that was the case), it seems rather implausible that he would be so ignorant of its age and history.
#117—”Most of us are sick of Abrams’ jerking us around by holding the trailer far longer than it should have been kept under wraps, and especially by not at least giving us a view of the Enterprise, just to ease our fears that he’s screwing things up. ”
“Jerking us around”? lol. Not giving you a photo 8 mos. in advance of the movie constitutes being “jerked around”? I’m glad my clients are more mature. I have custom pieces due here in 8 weeks that they haven’t seen photos of yet, and they’ve paid in advance! You haven’t even purchased a ticket yet, and still you feel that you are owed something. Wow.
Be careful when speaking so presumptuously. You do not speak for “most” fans, IMO.
And with that attitude, considering you are basically already presuming that he’s “screwing things up”, it is no wonder why he’s in no hurry to show it to you. It’s funny that your attitude is one of “fear” that he is screwing it up, rather than one of faith until given reason not to demonstrate it.
What is it exactly that you are afraid of?
It would seem to be an unwinnable scenario for Mr. Abrams. If you really did represent “most” fans, he’d be much better off not showing you at all prior to May, and simply forcing you to view it within the whole context of the completed film.
Even my kids have more patience…
ouch
All right, everyone, let’s stop going at each other’s throats. The internet is no place for that!
Yes, I am attempting to stifle my own laughter. I am failing.
Point aside, let’s all try to play nice, no matter how much we may STRONGLY disagree with opinions. IDIC, and whatnot.
#122—Fair enough. Are things back to normal in your neck of the woods? I know you were stll without power the other day. I have power at home, but not at work. It’s making things difficult.
As far as the books go, they always seemed very hit and miss to me. I stopped reading them when the bulk of them ceased to be centured around the TOS and original movie era, for the most part. I did read The Dominion War series, which was basically a rehash of relevant DS9 episodes. I also read “The Good That Men Do”.
I don’t read alot of fiction at all these days.
centured=centered…sorry.
Battle of the Typonians again?
123,
Aye, that it has. Power came back on about 3 days ago, fortunately. Doesn’t matter much since I move into the dorm in just a few hours. I don’t things are going to be “normal” for quite some time. And what is “strange” will eventually become my daily routine. Such is the way of college life, I suppose.
The books have been pretty good. I liked most of the TNG Relaunch stuff. The only one that I have avidly opposed is “Before Dishonor.” It was just…. bad. I have nothing good to say about it. “Greater Than the Sum” is fairly good, for what I’ve read of it. I’m actually looking forward to the “Destiny” series. It’s just strange to see the characters change so much. When you consider things, the series only lasted for 7 years at a time, then the books go WELL beyond that when you tie them in with the movies.
My favorite saga right now is the “A Time To…” one. Those were some good books. At the moment, I’ve headed back to the older S.C.E stories.
125,
Yes, and they’re winning. A list of ships lost:
Massachusetts
New York
Riviera
Knox
Carson
Clinton
Freedom
da Vinci
Intrepid
Lincoln
Jar Jar
Yorktown
Pink Margarita
Appletini
The only ship that I don’t regret losing was the Jar Jar. But the Appletini and the Margarita…. those will be sorely missed….
Aaammmaaaaaaa-zziiiiing graaaaace…. How sweeeeeet the sound…..
Canon to the right of us…canon to the left of us…
Sounds like the Pinot Noir went down too..
DAm, BND is gonna be in here in a second, talking like a pirate a day AFTER the official day.
#129—-Down the hatch, that is…
She’s the sister ship to the Pinot Grigio.
This is my first post on this site, or any ST site for that matter. I was a huge fan as a kid and I “left” it after Generations killed my man Kirk (in the lamest of all possible ways – on a stupid planet with no one around but a french bald guy, instead of at the conn and ramming his ship into some enemy or something. Bastards.). It’s been years since I kept up with anything. I read this article, though, looked behind me at my bookshelf, and saw Prime Directive and Spock’s World among only 10 or so ST books, tech manuals, etc. that I’ve kept from years ago (I used to have over 100 of the books).
Every time I try to get out, they pull me back in. I’m freakin’ psyched for this freakin’ movie!
# 133 Baroner
I agree with you. Once they killed Kirk is the lamest possible way I left the series as well.
Let’s hope this film somehow gives Kirk a better ending. Or as Bob Orci said “a fighting chance to live”
Is it me or was the music much much better in TOS than any other incarnation of Trek? I always felt the music in TOS had much more gravitas. The music in TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT were all wispy and boring. I’m not talking about the main intro music at the start of the show. I’m talking about the background music throughout the rest of the show.
I sure hope they get the music “right” in the new movie. Meaning, not what Dennis McCarthy and Ron Jones did. Their music absolutely did not add anything to the show, at all. The TOS music really raised the tempo durig action, or was funny during funny scenes, or the heavy drums raising the importance of a situation (see: Arena).
#135—”Is it me or was the music much much better in TOS than any other incarnation of Trek? I always felt the music in TOS had much more gravitas. The music in TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT were all wispy and boring. I’m not talking about the main intro music at the start of the show. I’m talking about the background music throughout the rest of the show.”
It’s not just you. I love the scores in TOS. There is nothing like it in any other incarnation of Trek. When I think of standout scores in TOS episodes, I think of “Friday’s Child” and “Amok Time”…two of my favorites.
#135
Absolutely it’s not just you. If you’ve ever seen “Cable Guy”, Jim Carrey is bellowing the TOS fight music at the top of his lungs while jousting at the Medieval Times arena. Probably the best scene in the movie!
@135 & 136: I very much agree about the music. TOS music was so magnificently over-the-top. C’mon, how can you not love the Doomsday Machine theme? Or the green slave girl dancing music?
I have to defend Ron Jones and Dennis McCarthy, though — I read that Rick Berman pretty much kept a stranglehold on their creativity. they weren’t allowed to write recognizeable themes for characters, they were forced to keep the music mixed extremely low, there were lists of instruments they weren’t allowed to use, etc. Eventually it got so bad that Jones quit.
If you listen to TNG’s first and second season episodes, you’ll notice that there’s some surprisingly rousing stuff written; Jones scored “Heart of Glory”, and it was one long (awesome) homage to Jerry Goldsmith’s Klingon theme. And his score for “The Best of Both Worlds” is pretty much as epic as he could get away with. ;) McCarthy’s score for “Encounter at Farpoint” is definately worth a listen, too.
Anyways, whatever concerns you might have about the new movie, music should definately not be among them — go listen to Michael Giacchino’s score for “The Incredibles”, or “Roar!” from Cloverfield and you’ll know exactly what I mean.
Yeah. It was Rick Berman who Killed the Music for the Tng series and the others. The Composers did the best they could with what they were ALLOWED to do. Berman is the one Who Killed Trek and thank god that J.J and the Court came in and saved it. The Music is so kool in the Tos And it was good in the first couple of seasons and in the best of both worlds in the tng but that was it. I believe the Music will be great in the new movie because Michael has the leeway to make a great score for the movie thatnks to J.J
I hope they are taking a few of the best IDEAS from the better novels and putting them into the film. The novel’s stories themselves should stay non canon but if they pick and chose the really good ideas from them we will have some new, fresh, exciting elements in this film. I hope they add a few ideas of their own too. If so, the film will be loaded with one of Trek’s hallmark traits – things that make you think long after the film ends. If I leave the theater with some mind boggling ideas that I never thought of before, it will feel like great Trek again.
The Berman Trek ‘music’ was beyond hideous. I honestly wish they could rescore most of the shows. One of the reasons TNG and its fellows are seen as rather remote and cold is the lack of decent scores. Indeed, the music is perhaps my biggest disappointment with the spin-off shows.
118. Xai.
You hit the nail on the head. Good job!
133. Welcome, Baroner! Please continue to post
137. I agree. I still laugh when I think about that scene.
I’m a worrier. I used to be worried that the Trek XI team was going to completely change the Star Trek that we’ve all come to know and love. However, I now worry that they’ve gone in completely the opposite direction. Some change is good. The key point is that, whilst the much-discussed Star Trek ‘philosophy’ or ‘essence’ is inviolable, the show itself needs a major revamp to offer a convincing imagination of the 23rd century. In the couple of decades between TOS and TNG, the show transformed itself, visually. I worry how the team will keep continuity with the latter series and yet make this film look futuristic. Let’s face it: this is a big problem. In TOS, the team has taken, what many believe to be, the most interesting period in Trek history. However, the ship, bridge, aliens, props, etc., do not now look particularly futuristic. If this film is to be taken seriously, it must be believable. It must look modern. Otherwise, it will lapse into parody. I don’t know how the team intends to deliver, if it is adhering steadfastly to canon. The ship itself and its bridge are particularly problematic, not just because they look particularly anachronistic, but also because they feature so very much in the show. I would not be opposed to a pretty major redesign, certainly of the bridge.
Thank you boborci and Trekmovie for confirming what I said in a differernt thread earlier this week.
I’ve read most of the novels, some are good and some aren’t. But there is a nice universe there and I am glad to see some incorporated in the new film.
»111
“it’s all make believe. just go with the flow.”
right on yo
now where did i put that blog..
ok so its time to read prime directive finally… if its on the kindle ..
#143 – I think much of what concerns you is in the realm of what we haven’t seen so far but what little we do know suggests that the sets, especially, have been given a pretty thorough updating. I hope they don’t change *too* much, but by the same token, they can’t treat the sets like they’re still in the ’60s, either, and I didn’t get the sense that they have. Thankfully, Jefferies’s basic designs are very solid and can stand up to modernization without having to be thrown out along the way.
Guess we’ll have more to discuss on that front once we get some pics, ’cause then we’ll know if they went too far, not far enough, or just right. :)
i really dont care about Trek’s canon, i really want to see Trek as real. so dont hate me for not caring about Trek’s 40 year old canon thingy.
i always lked Star Trek as a hope for our future so to me Star Trek is actually good influence to some people.
So i think Star Trek 2 is the best Trek movie out there and when i 8 or 9 kid i used to watch Star Trek TNG at friday night after sauna :)
So Star Trek will be always in my heart, but i really dont want to collect all that DVD:s seasons or toys.
I have Trek 1 – 10 movies on my movie collection and XI would be great on collection too :)
Um, I hate to beat a dead starship, BUT:
WHEN are we going to see the new ship in its entirety? I know we got to see all the other ships way in advance of the film/series releases.
This is ridiculous.
That’s had better be one jaw-dropping fangasm inducing ship design for all the wait and buildup we are enduring.
C’mon JJ…Orci…Kurtzman…I know you’re out there.
Give the people what they want! All these lame pseudo interviews are boring. They basically say the same things over and over just using different words to say it.
Show the fans you TRULY care: Reveal the ship!
Redjac…
This IS ridiculous.
Thanks Xai! :-)
Sorry, bud… But I am not agreeing with you.
Your “Show the fans you TRULY care: Reveal the ship!” sounds vaguely like… “Show me you love me..” etc, etc
#143—Personally, my view of ‘canon’ has nothng to do with the asthetic appearance of the ship, its bridge, or anything else aboard. To me, ‘canon’ is about the progression of events in the timeline (and the films often did a poor job of that too). It cannot be any worse than the canon goofs in he dialogue of TWOK or TSFS, for example, or some of the gaffs from one TOS episode to another.
I guess it’s all in how you define “canon”, and whether you include props and set designs in that definition or not. I choose not to, but some others do.
Either way, “canon” is supposed to be fun…not something to “worry” about.
:)
Considering the books canon is a big can of worms to open – there’s a lot of crap out there mixed with the good stuff, and a lot of books that contradict each other. I guess I can trust these two to be choosy, though.
As is often the case for a compulsive worrier, I’m probably worrying about nothing. The Trek XI team is composed of very clever chaps who will know that a film about the future needs to be futuristic in aesthetics and everything else. However, with Star Trek, this is potentially problematic. To expand on my earlier thoughts:
First, there is the issue of aesthetic continuity: TOS precedes TNG, DS9, etc., and so ought to look less futuristic than those shows. However, as time passes, our technology improves; and so, in many ways, those shows now look old-fashioned. Personally, I wouldn’t be too bothered by aesthetic continuity. Though, since we believe that at least some of this film takes place in the 24th century, that period must look more futuristic than the 23rd century, which must, in turn, look very futuristic to today’s audience. This is no mean feat, especially the last point.
Second, and a related point, is that since this is a re-boot (re-invigoration, or whatever-you-want-to-call-it), we ought to consider the original show. This provides a framework in which this new film can operate. However, there are only so many things one can change before the show changes. The ship, bridge, uniforms, props, etc., are central to TOS and will feature prominently in this new film. If the team doesn’t modernise these aspects, the film will be a laughing stock: like a villain who’s supposed to be menacing but is instead funny. But if they does modernise, there are many vocal fans who may be upset. I hope such fans are ignored; nevertheless, there is only so much one can do to modernise, e.g., the NCC-1701. The uniforms may become fashionable because they are simple and retro. However, the ship cannot look old-fashioned. It would be a disaster. And the original ship does look old-fashioned…
The books, too, huh? I’m not surprised. If that film’s rumored storyline is true, the plot for it came right out of one of them, so it’s only proper to pay lip service to them, I suppose, if for no other reason to avoid a lawsuit for copyright infringement.
120-Be careful when speaking so presumptuously. You do not speak for “most” fans, IMO.
Neither do you.
He has valid points. That trailer aside, most of you are going to wish that the film was released sooner than later before it’s said and done. Mr. Abram’s making a big mistake sitting on a film that long and playing this cat and mouse game with people; especially people who aren’t really inclined to be all that pumped for Trek anyway.
Cloverfield.
Oh, well…
#154—I agree with everything you say, and it has already been made clear that everything will look more realistic and functional…not parodic. It sounds to me that their approach is just what you hoped for.
#156—-”Neither do you.”
The difference is, I do not claim to.
“Mr. Abram’s making a big mistake sitting on a film that long and playing this cat and mouse game with people; especially people who aren’t really inclined to be all that pumped for Trek anyway.”
First of all, it was not Abrams decision to “sit” on the film. The film was supposed to be released in December, in which case you would probably have already seen a full trailer, publicity shots, and everything else that goes along with a full-blown marketing campaign. As we all know, Paramount made the confident decision to make STXI its Summer Movie for 2009. Abrams and co. have expressed both pride and disappointment to various degrees over that decision.
Secondly, it sounds like you have little or no experience in marketing (not that there is anything to be ashamed of in that). As someone who deals in it each and every week, I believe no mistake has yet been made, particularly with the target audience you speak of. The mainstream attention span for Star Trek is historically less than stellar.
There is only, IMO, about a 3-5 month period of time before the film’s release in which mainstream hype for something like STXI can be sustained. I think the right strategy for marketing this film is an aggressive campaign from about December to May, beginning no sooner and no later. I expect to see a full trailer during the holiday movie season, and an aggressive campaign to escalate from there, in order to maximize the potential interest in the mainstream moviegoing audience by the time of its actual release. To succeed in the stated goal of attracting the average moviegoer and younger viewers to a niche franchise like Star Trek, the marketing campaign must be at its peak in the first two weeks of May 2009.
When I am debuting a new line in Spring, I do not start marketing it in September. It will be forgotten or at least less impressive to its target audience by the time Spring comes around. That is basic “attention span psychology” in marketing, particularly when preconceived notions in the public such as those surrounding Star Trek must be overcome.
But that is just my opinion. I do not claim to speak for “most fans” as he does.
I just don’t think his points are as valid as you do.
We haven’t seen a marketing campaign yet because it is not supposed to begin for awhile, IMO. What little we do hear is due to people involved in STXI being out there marketing more immediate releases and being asked side questioons about Star Trek.
You are not, IMO, really asking for a smart marketing strategy. I think you, like many fans here, just want to see something to satisfy your curiousity and perhaps (like #117), something to attack for being outside what you think you would like them to do at this point.
That’s not a clamour for marketing….That’s old fashioned fanboy angst.
I havent read many of the books since the 80s and i really dont care if they incorporate details from them into the movie, but its nice to know 1)_ that theyre going to the books for ideas and inspiration, and 2) they wont be making stuff up out of thin air – meaning, that theres a familiar basis for anything that’s not taken right from the series ; and i’m sure that anything they use from the books won’t be contradicted elsewhere, so that will be a relief.
It must not be lost on the makers of this movie that the anticipation for this movie may run out as was stated on a few of the notes above. I wonder if anyone associated with this movie has determined that risk to delay the movie out ways the benefit? It may backfire and turn some or more people off, than they would like to. I wonder how they plan to keep our attention for so long? Any ideas? The anticipation for so long may allow all of us to pre determine what the move will be, so by the time we see we will think that it will be a huge blockbuster answering a years worth of our questions, only to have our estimation of what we though the movie would be and dislike it based on our pre-determination of what we though it was, and by word of mouth turn other people off.
157-
I’m versed enough to know that movie’s a non-starter right out of the gate. Speed Racer had a great marketing campaign, too, and we all know how that turned out after it failed to cross the finish line at the box office.
You’re not going to sustain the required level of expectation in the general public for a film basically anticipated within a specific niche within a niche genre for that period. Period.
Anything more, you’d need a complete reboot, coupled with an epic story arc I would’ve told in a trilogy which would’ve detailed Kirk’s formative years aboard the Farragut and the first Klingon War ending with his promotion to captain of the Enterprise.
Case closed.
Prediction for posterity: $150-170 million total US Box Office, tops. World Gross: 215-225 million.
#159—”It must not be lost on the makers of this movie that the anticipation for this movie may run out as was stated on a few of the notes above. ”
How can the anticipation for this movie “run out”, if it has yet to begin?
The only people talking about this movie are established Trek fans. No one else cares. Mainstream audiences could not care less what’s coming out in May of 2009 when it is still September of 2008.
Don’t expect an aggressive marketing campaign until the Holiday season…That’s about 5 mos. prior to the film’s release, and that’s about all the all-out hype this film will sustain. The trick is to peak the average moviegoer’s interest around opening weekend, thus ensuring that the largest number of them give it a chance and spend the money. Even if they were out there actively marketing the movie now, the mainstream moviegoing public would get bored with it by May. There are too many preconceived notions about Trek out there, and the only way to combat that is to strike while the iron is hot…It’s still ice cold.
Expect a trailer in the December movie season, and an aggressive campaign to escalate from there. It should peak around the first week of May…and that’s the whole point.
Don’t confuse “good marketing strategy” with the satisfaction of fanboy angst…That’s two very different things.
#160—”I’m versed enough to know that movie’s a non-starter right out of the gate”
Based upon what?
“You’re not going to sustain the required level of expectation in the general public for a film basically anticipated within a specific niche within a niche genre for that period. Period.”
Again, based upon what?
Star Trek hasn’t gotten the blockbuster treatment since 1979, and then it was with a director (albeit a good one) that was well beyond his prime. Even then, the movie made money. STXI approaches with an up and coming A-list Hollywood name in the director’s chair that has proven enormous mainstream success with the one of the highest rated television shows of all time (and in a flooded market of hundreds of cable and satellite channels), along with a massive budget and the promise of special effects–the likes of which have never been seen–and action sequences that Star Trek has never brought to the table. This movie has more potential for mainstream appeal than anything ever branded with the Star Trek name on it.
You have no frame of reference from which to draw that conclusion, since there has been nothing similar to compare it to. Bad Robot has never before produced a Star Trek movie. Whether you like Abrams or not, denying his mainstream appeal is not an option…
The low-budget ‘Cloverfield’ made money. ‘Transformers’ made alot of money, and has prompted the studio to invest in a film series. MI3 made money as well. ‘Alias’ was successful. ‘Lost’ has seen record breaking ratings. ‘Fringe’ is currently the Tuesday night champ in its timeslot.
“…an epic story arc I would’ve told in a trilogy which would’ve detailed Kirk’s formative years aboard the Farragut and the first Klingon War ending with his promotion to captain of the Enterprise.”
That’s fine for a straight-to-dvd fanboy film series or a set of novels, but as a massive budget feature film trilogy—right off the bat, that suggestion suffers from the same ills as Lucas’ Star Wars prequel trilogy (not to mention, it’s basically a ripoff of the same). Where’s the jeopardy? The audience would already know for certain that Kirk, Spock, and McCoy end up okay and aboard the Enterprise for its famous five-year mission. Where’s the beef?
At least in Orci and Kurtzman’s story, you have the potential for alternate timelines which might (according to Abrams) place even the leading characters in jeopardy. The outcomes of events we know are no longer certain, and solely dependent upon Nimoy’s Spock success in defeating the villainous plots of Nero and his cohorts to disrupt the past.
You get the “jeopardy”, as well as the vehicle to tell the origin story in epic scale.
A “non-starter”, you say? What’s the problem? I don’t see it.
#161, 162 Closettrekker
You are in fine form tonight.
“Sorry, bud… But I am not agreeing with you. ”
Yeah, I suppose I *was* jumping the phaser thinking such a momentous/historic occasion of agreement with Xai might have actually occurred.
Silly me.
I just wanna see the fracking ship. Is that so wrong?
#162:
I agree with you that Trek XI is far more likely to appeal to the mainstream audience than any other Trek film. To your comments that this film has, by far, the largest budget, and promises plenty of action and great special effects, I would add a few comments of my own. First, the TOS characters (especially Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Scotty) are iconic. Many, many people have heard of them, as they are part of popular culture. A mainstream audience is, therefore, more likely to care about these characters than any of the subsequent characters, who are far less well-known. I think that there is a genuine interest in these characters; and a story of their origins would appeal to a lot of people. And this is the perfect story to introduce Star Trek, for, quite literally, that is what this film is about. A viewer doesn’t need to know the entire Trek back-story to enjoy this film; and this back-story and Trek chronology probably disinclined casual viewers from watching the later films. I agree that Abrams’s name (along with those in his great team, who don’t get mentioned enough) will be a bonus. I also think that the cast is strong and will draw in causal viewers willing to give Trek a try. In particular, Eric Bana, Nimoy, Winona Ryder, Ben Cross, Pine, Quinto, Urban, and Pegg are well-known. This will all help to dispel the preconceived notions of Trek that the ‘unenlightened’ may have. I’m really interested in what the marketing campaign may involve. How does one make Trek cool? Perhaps through association with celebrities who like Star Trek; e.g., Ben Stiller, Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise, Eddie Murphy, etc. If the causal fan sees these guys at the premiere, they may themselves decide to give it a try. Just a thought: marketing isn’t my area.
#166—Great post. I agree 100%.
165. The REAL Redjac – September 22, 2008
“I just wanna see the fracking ship. Is that so wrong?”
No. It’s not wrong.
And it’s not for me to decide when they release anything. My point is that the “begging and demanding” and (some posters) calling TPTB “stupid” for not having a trailer out there is old, makes fans look bad and is somewhat pointless.
166. Alec – September 22, 2008
” How does one make Trek cool? ”
I agree. Good post.
I’ll have to think about the “cool”. That’s a very interesting thought that intrigues my advertising brain. I think it worthy of it’s own article here as we get closer to premiere.
They wouldn’t need to go any further that “Strangers From the Sky” to capture the true essence of Trek.
It isn’t canon (because of First Contact), but damn, that is a fine book. It’s the only Trek novel (though I have enjoyed a few) that transcends the genre.
Spock’s World was pretty good too.