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	<title>Comments on: Spiner: I&#8217;m Too Old To Play Data</title>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/comment-page-3/#comment-1118863</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/#comment-1118863</guid>
		<description>Data’s mind is a computer. It can perform complex operations much faster than a human’s. If Data knew the ship was a bout to blow up, he would have time to do something — even during the explosion. If he had some way of transmitting the contents of his mind, he might have done that.

Or, Data could backup his mind every day on board the Enterprise. There are always ways to bring him back.

I would think it “harder” to bring him back if his body had been physically destroyed, but they kept a body preserved for him (B-4) so that isn’t a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Data’s mind is a computer. It can perform complex operations much faster than a human’s. If Data knew the ship was a bout to blow up, he would have time to do something — even during the explosion. If he had some way of transmitting the contents of his mind, he might have done that.</p>
<p>Or, Data could backup his mind every day on board the Enterprise. There are always ways to bring him back.</p>
<p>I would think it “harder” to bring him back if his body had been physically destroyed, but they kept a body preserved for him (B-4) so that isn’t a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Schmoe</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/comment-page-3/#comment-1115391</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Schmoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 23:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/#comment-1115391</guid>
		<description>I guess there is an extremely small possibility that when Shinzon&#039;s ship blew up, in some strange way all the particles that were Data randomly collected and just so happened to recreate the body and mind of Data.

You know, about the same chance that I can swallow a Humpback Whale entirely whole.  And come out the other end totally intact.

And about the same chance that all the matter exploded from the Big Bang, and now we randomly have people who can walk and chew gum at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess there is an extremely small possibility that when Shinzon&#8217;s ship blew up, in some strange way all the particles that were Data randomly collected and just so happened to recreate the body and mind of Data.</p>
<p>You know, about the same chance that I can swallow a Humpback Whale entirely whole.  And come out the other end totally intact.</p>
<p>And about the same chance that all the matter exploded from the Big Bang, and now we randomly have people who can walk and chew gum at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Tekolar</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/comment-page-3/#comment-1113225</link>
		<dc:creator>Tekolar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/#comment-1113225</guid>
		<description>Let Q bring him back. Let the Fairy Godmother make Pinocchio a real boy... got my drift?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let Q bring him back. Let the Fairy Godmother make Pinocchio a real boy&#8230; got my drift?</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/comment-page-3/#comment-1109743</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/#comment-1109743</guid>
		<description>There would be no problem with Data physically ageing. It is not firmly established that Data can’t age, in fact, LaForge briefly mentions Data’s “ageing chip” (or program) in a TNG episode (I think it was in the 6th season). Yes, there is information to contradict this, but it’s certainly not clearly established that Data can’t age. The android of Data’s mother (Juliana Tana) had an ageing chip, so it’s certainly something Soong was capable of doing.

Izbot &amp; Closettrekker,
Thanks for the recommendations. Based on your comments, perhaps I have overlooked the best Trek films. I will have to see 1–4 (director’s cut of TMP of course).

I was always a TNG fan, although my appreciation for TOS has grown quite a bit this past few years, especially with TOS-R coming out, which I have been really excited about. The fact is, I didn’t arrive on earth until 1977, so to my eyes, TOS has always looked a little old fashioned and cheap. But after watching a lot of Trek, and seeing one or two of the spinoff series completely flop, I had started to appreciate the original for the great show that it was, despite the age of the production.

Then when TOS-R came along and brought it up to date, that was a tremendous thing for someone like me. I’m not nostalgic about grainy old film: I am strongly in favour of remastering and retouching of old things. As long as the aim is purely to enhance the original vision, compensating for the limitations of the original budget and technology — not to change the story or the style. (For this reason, I would imagine that I will like the director’s cut of Star Trek TMP.)

It’s strange how my description of Data’s return to duty was so similar to the corresponding scene in The Search For Spock. I cannot ever remember seeing that film, although maybe I saw it years ago on TV as a kid and I was tapping into my subconscious memory?

Or… perhaps a more plausible explanation is that I am trapped inside a loop of  time — an earlier incarnation of myself at a later stage of the loop has determined the only way to break out of the loop and I have sent a message to myself, embedded in my subconscious, which is causing me to keeping thinking about The Search For Spock, which is, presumably, the key to breaking the loop?

I wasn’t kidding when I said I wish I could direct a film. The fact that I recreated a key scene from a popular film might suggest I think like a pro… or that my work would be highly derivative! Anyway, I’m a graphic designer and I live nowhere near a big city, so I guess I’m in the wrong career and the wrong place. Shame though. I have a really strong sense of the way I would shoot things.

Jamie :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There would be no problem with Data physically ageing. It is not firmly established that Data can’t age, in fact, LaForge briefly mentions Data’s “ageing chip” (or program) in a TNG episode (I think it was in the 6th season). Yes, there is information to contradict this, but it’s certainly not clearly established that Data can’t age. The android of Data’s mother (Juliana Tana) had an ageing chip, so it’s certainly something Soong was capable of doing.</p>
<p>Izbot &amp; Closettrekker,<br />
Thanks for the recommendations. Based on your comments, perhaps I have overlooked the best Trek films. I will have to see 1–4 (director’s cut of TMP of course).</p>
<p>I was always a TNG fan, although my appreciation for TOS has grown quite a bit this past few years, especially with TOS-R coming out, which I have been really excited about. The fact is, I didn’t arrive on earth until 1977, so to my eyes, TOS has always looked a little old fashioned and cheap. But after watching a lot of Trek, and seeing one or two of the spinoff series completely flop, I had started to appreciate the original for the great show that it was, despite the age of the production.</p>
<p>Then when TOS-R came along and brought it up to date, that was a tremendous thing for someone like me. I’m not nostalgic about grainy old film: I am strongly in favour of remastering and retouching of old things. As long as the aim is purely to enhance the original vision, compensating for the limitations of the original budget and technology — not to change the story or the style. (For this reason, I would imagine that I will like the director’s cut of Star Trek TMP.)</p>
<p>It’s strange how my description of Data’s return to duty was so similar to the corresponding scene in The Search For Spock. I cannot ever remember seeing that film, although maybe I saw it years ago on TV as a kid and I was tapping into my subconscious memory?</p>
<p>Or… perhaps a more plausible explanation is that I am trapped inside a loop of  time — an earlier incarnation of myself at a later stage of the loop has determined the only way to break out of the loop and I have sent a message to myself, embedded in my subconscious, which is causing me to keeping thinking about The Search For Spock, which is, presumably, the key to breaking the loop?</p>
<p>I wasn’t kidding when I said I wish I could direct a film. The fact that I recreated a key scene from a popular film might suggest I think like a pro… or that my work would be highly derivative! Anyway, I’m a graphic designer and I live nowhere near a big city, so I guess I’m in the wrong career and the wrong place. Shame though. I have a really strong sense of the way I would shoot things.</p>
<p>Jamie :)</p>
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		<title>By: B-who</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/comment-page-3/#comment-1109652</link>
		<dc:creator>B-who</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/#comment-1109652</guid>
		<description>I always got the impression that Data&#039;s memory wasn&#039;t *completely* duplicated in the transfer to B4, or that B4&#039;s &#039;faulty&#039; programming either didnt compensate to preserve everything from the transfer intact, or was insufficient to access the memories in their complete form.  Sort of when you back up a program or files on a hard drive but the new disk is imperfect, so you end up with fragmented data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always got the impression that Data&#8217;s memory wasn&#8217;t *completely* duplicated in the transfer to B4, or that B4&#8217;s &#8216;faulty&#8217; programming either didnt compensate to preserve everything from the transfer intact, or was insufficient to access the memories in their complete form.  Sort of when you back up a program or files on a hard drive but the new disk is imperfect, so you end up with fragmented data.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/comment-page-3/#comment-1108342</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 06:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/#comment-1108342</guid>
		<description>Spiner is NOT too old to play data again! Just look at him in the video, those head movements and the way he talks... He would be as brilliant as a Data as anytime before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spiner is NOT too old to play data again! Just look at him in the video, those head movements and the way he talks&#8230; He would be as brilliant as a Data as anytime before.</p>
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		<title>By: Ramulon</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/comment-page-3/#comment-1108153</link>
		<dc:creator>Ramulon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 04:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/#comment-1108153</guid>
		<description>Why couldn&#039;t Geordi and Barkley bring Data back as a hologram? The technology exsist. Could open up the door to a lot of possiblities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why couldn&#8217;t Geordi and Barkley bring Data back as a hologram? The technology exsist. Could open up the door to a lot of possiblities.</p>
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		<title>By: Izbot</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/comment-page-3/#comment-1107712</link>
		<dc:creator>Izbot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 23:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/#comment-1107712</guid>
		<description>123. trequer - 
&quot;I agree with the “wise old android” theory. He should have grown up in the movies (with help from that emotional chip)&quot;

The thing about Data was he was supposed to &#039;live forever&#039;, that he could conceivably be around for hundreds if not thousands of years. His death in Nemesis should&#039;ve been particularly painful given his unique potential. I didn&#039;t get that from the film, instead he&#039;s mourned just like any other dead human -- mourned even less than short-timer Tasha Yar. I do believe that had Data lived a century or so and we were able to visit him in another Trek taking place in the 25th century or later (thanks a lot for ruining any chance of that happening, John Logan) we would&#039;ve seen a much more humanlike Data along the lines he was progressing as proposed in &quot;All Good Things&quot;. 

Killing him off because Spiner felt he was too old to play him much longer or just to add some emotional punch to Nemesis was just a poor decision. Motion-capture cgi and other existing technologies could easily allow Data to live on using Spiner&#039;s voice only for many years to come. There was no good reason for killing him off in the first place. And even less sense in telling everyone it was going to happen before the movie even came out (just like they did with Kirk in Generations). 

And regarding the emotion chip: It seems Moore and Braga intended for Data to evolve in the movies and that&#039;s why they gave him emotions right away in Generations. However, writers of the subsequent films had either no interest in furthering this development or no ideas where to carry it which is really a shame. In the second film Data suddenly has the ability to turn his emotions on and off but in Insurrection it&#039;s clear that backward-looking Michael Piller had no interest in dealing with its existence at all. The only mention of his emotion chip is in a throwaway line saying Data &quot;didn&#039;t bring it with him&quot; on that mission -- despite the fact Generations makes it explicit that the chip had fused with his software and could not be removed. By Nemesis all mention of the chip had disappeared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>123. trequer &#8211;<br />
&#8220;I agree with the “wise old android” theory. He should have grown up in the movies (with help from that emotional chip)&#8221;</p>
<p>The thing about Data was he was supposed to &#8216;live forever&#8217;, that he could conceivably be around for hundreds if not thousands of years. His death in Nemesis should&#8217;ve been particularly painful given his unique potential. I didn&#8217;t get that from the film, instead he&#8217;s mourned just like any other dead human &#8212; mourned even less than short-timer Tasha Yar. I do believe that had Data lived a century or so and we were able to visit him in another Trek taking place in the 25th century or later (thanks a lot for ruining any chance of that happening, John Logan) we would&#8217;ve seen a much more humanlike Data along the lines he was progressing as proposed in &#8220;All Good Things&#8221;. </p>
<p>Killing him off because Spiner felt he was too old to play him much longer or just to add some emotional punch to Nemesis was just a poor decision. Motion-capture cgi and other existing technologies could easily allow Data to live on using Spiner&#8217;s voice only for many years to come. There was no good reason for killing him off in the first place. And even less sense in telling everyone it was going to happen before the movie even came out (just like they did with Kirk in Generations). </p>
<p>And regarding the emotion chip: It seems Moore and Braga intended for Data to evolve in the movies and that&#8217;s why they gave him emotions right away in Generations. However, writers of the subsequent films had either no interest in furthering this development or no ideas where to carry it which is really a shame. In the second film Data suddenly has the ability to turn his emotions on and off but in Insurrection it&#8217;s clear that backward-looking Michael Piller had no interest in dealing with its existence at all. The only mention of his emotion chip is in a throwaway line saying Data &#8220;didn&#8217;t bring it with him&#8221; on that mission &#8212; despite the fact Generations makes it explicit that the chip had fused with his software and could not be removed. By Nemesis all mention of the chip had disappeared.</p>
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		<title>By: trequer</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/comment-page-3/#comment-1107608</link>
		<dc:creator>trequer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/#comment-1107608</guid>
		<description>I agree with the &quot;wise old android&quot; theory. He should have grown up in the movies (with help from that emotional chip)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the &#8220;wise old android&#8221; theory. He should have grown up in the movies (with help from that emotional chip)</p>
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		<title>By: Izbot</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/comment-page-3/#comment-1107437</link>
		<dc:creator>Izbot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 20:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/2008/10/02/spiner-im-too-old-to-play-data/#comment-1107437</guid>
		<description>Jamie -
I agree with Closet that TMP is largely underrated and it is also my personal favorite of all the Trek films. It is now only available in the Director&#039;s Cut on DVD which is the best version. The theatrical version was famously rushed to meet it&#039;s locked-in opening date and badly needed a final editting (and even some of the special effects weren&#039;t completed in time for its&#039; release). As a result it got the reputation for being overly long, repetitive and a little boring. But the Director&#039;s edit fixes all these problems marvelously and even includes some new effects.

It is the most thought-provoking of all the films, which appeals to me, but some people find it&#039;s still a bit short on action. That, in contrast, is addressed in TWOK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jamie -<br />
I agree with Closet that TMP is largely underrated and it is also my personal favorite of all the Trek films. It is now only available in the Director&#8217;s Cut on DVD which is the best version. The theatrical version was famously rushed to meet it&#8217;s locked-in opening date and badly needed a final editting (and even some of the special effects weren&#8217;t completed in time for its&#8217; release). As a result it got the reputation for being overly long, repetitive and a little boring. But the Director&#8217;s edit fixes all these problems marvelously and even includes some new effects.</p>
<p>It is the most thought-provoking of all the films, which appeals to me, but some people find it&#8217;s still a bit short on action. That, in contrast, is addressed in TWOK.</p>
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