I mean I’m not a stickler. I know the object of a show is to convey an idea or concept. Some imagination is required. I was only pointing out the position the creaters of Enterprise was in.

Spock apparently also did not seek a command, and only accepted one after the ship was reassigned as a training vessel, and Kirk had transferred to the Academy.

#337 – In one of those cases of reinterpreting what went on “behind the walls”, the idea of what those little flat things were that the characters used seems to have evolved over time, as technology has advanced. One of the more interesting ideas what that it was a handling/interface case for crystal memory disks like the ones used in the tricorders. That one came from the TOS RPG from Last Unicorn a few years ago.

I mean T’Pow is in the Enterprise series and wouldn’t T’Pol still be alive? I think Enterprise was a great show and didn’t get a lot of repect from a lot of fans. They were in a tuff position. Looking futuristic as compared to 2008 but not to over shadow TOS. I mean TOS still used “Data Tapes” That went out in the 1980’s didn’t it?

then again Riker was commander and EO on the Enterprises D and E for 15 yrs

is this how it is in the military? being commander or 1st officer or EO for 15 or 20 yrs? when do you become capt?

I have an even worse problem with that birth year – that of Spock’s mothers age when she had him. In the old Whitfiled&Roddenberry classic book “The Making of Star Trek” Spock’s mother was listed as 58 and his father 103 at the time of “Journey to Babel”. If Kirk is 35, and Spock is 3 years older, it makes Amanda 20 when she had him. That means an almost 70 year old Sarek was hitting on a teenaged Amanda. Somewhat disquieting. I’ll just assume that Amanda’s age is wrong in that book or changed by later authors.

(ducks)

Only joking. But seriously, this serves to reinforce the point I have made in this and other threads. Canon is not always 100% accurate – it’s like history. They get mixed up over time, distorted as they are translated, misinterpreted and analysed.

Debating a canon ‘warp core breach’ is effectively a moot point – because we have several verifiable examples of canon actually contradicting itself. It’s already convoluted. My discussion re: starship construction earlier is a prime example. Were they built in space, were they built on the ground? We have canonical references to support BOTH arguments.

Likewise, when Kirk says he met Pike, it’s kind of implied that it was just in passing. But the way he talks to him later in the episode impies that they’ve had some form of familiarity in the past, hence Kirk calling him ‘Chris’. There’s evidence there to support both arguments, and therefore Kirk meeting Pine while he’s actually Captain of the Enterprise isn’t such a massive problem after all.

I think the ‘Nero-going-back-in-time-and-destroying-the-Kelvin-and-mucking-up-the-timeline’ theory makes a lot of sense, though. It would certainly be a very effective way of avoiding the pitfalls and beartraps of navigating the all-powerful canon, and just allowing the script to be what it is.

@328:

Oh, you guys must be loving this!

Heck, until the VOY episode pinned those dates down, even the 5-year mission dates were conjecture, and stood in contrast to the on-screen information in TWOK that 15 years had passed since “Space Seed”.

At least Kirk’s birth year could be extrapolated if one took the Okuda dates of TOS to be an axiom (which the Okudas obviously did) and worked back from “The Deadly Years”. The Okudas obviously did not rely much on TAS, since they felt okay with contradicting Spock’s age there. If they had followed that dialogue, Kirk and Spock would probably be listed as even closer in age.

BTW, whether we quibble about the validity of the reference material, kudos to you and the team, Bob O., for doing the research!

In TAS, “Yesteryear”, Spock travels back through the guardian 30 Earth years to an event which took place when he was 7 Earth years of age. Obviously, he was 37 during the time of that episode’s story.

Accepting 2230 as the year of his birth would place “Yesteryear” in 2267, and thus within the timeframe of the second season episodes.

“Yesteryear” must take place after “COTEOF” and “Journey To Babel”, so I suppose that is possible. It just seems so unlikely that Kirk and co. would return to the Guardian’s planet so soon after the horrible experience there before, without so much as a mention of it. It has also been assumed for decades that this story took place after the 3rd and final season of TOS.

This doesn’t, IMO, make it canonically impossible…but (again, IMO) not a very well thought out placement of Spock’s birth year—particularly since Spock never actually says that he was born in 2230 (or Kirk in 2233, for that matter). Star Trek.com or not, I do not consider that source canon, since the information is not based upon anything referenced in an official production of Star Trek on television or film. I think it is not unlike Okuda’s Chronology or some other reference source. The information is obviously not solely based upon established canon, but instead relies upon someone’s conjecture as well.