ST09 Trailer Countdown: A Look At The Search For Spock Trailer November 5, 2008
by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Feature Films (TMP-NEM) , trackback
The new Star Trek trailer arrives next Friday. While we wait, we continue our journey through Trek’s past, today TrekMovie travels back to 1984 to look at the cinematic trailer for Star Trek III: The Search for Spock.
The final voyage of the Starship Enterprise
Theatrical trailer for Star Trek III: The Search for Spock.
Commentary:
This trailer presents Star Trek as much more mythological than the previous trailers, which is appropriate as that is what Leonard Nimoy states was the intention of the film itself. The narration discusses their sacrifices and what the crew represents. Compared with TWOK, the Star Trek III trailer is much more about the crew of the Enterprise and their mission rather than the villain, although it does highlight the action/battle angle quite a bit. The trailer spoils that this is the last voyage of the starship Enterprise, and even shows some of the destruction. The logo at the end is reminiscent of the Superman-style lettering.
The Star Trek III DVD features this theatrical trailer, with no TV commercials or teaser trailer.
UK Trailer
There was also an alternative trailer in the UK which doesn’t give away the destruction of the Enterprise.
Where have you heard that voice?
Interestingly, the narrator of the trailer is also the narrator of many of the Buena Vista read-along books on tape or record, including Star Trek III.
Part 1
Part 2
Thanks to YouTubers WackeyEarthling, TvFilmMedia audiofun818
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Comments»
Underrated movie! Love the stealing of the Enterprise!
I never really liked the trailer for ST III. It gave too much away.
Oddly enough, Nimoy didn’t quite understand the fans’ reaction to the destruction of the Enterprise.
Somehow, he never got the memo on the Enterprise being a character as much as Kirk and Spock.
Hopefully, the STXI trailer doesn’t make the same mistake. I never did like the way David Marcus died. It was almost as bad as the way Tasha Yar died, or even Kirk himself.
To be brutally honest……..I think TWOK+TSFS, watched as a back-to-back double bill, is probably the best 3.5 hours of TREK (in the movie series) ever produced!
There, I’ve said it and I make no apologies!
First Trek movie I saw in the theater. Was hooked instantly. Saw every sequel since then on opening night.
Wow, I’ve never seen this trailer before, and I can’t believe they spoiled the fact that the Enterprise is destroyed in the trailer. It’s the freakin Enterprise, it could have been one of the biggest “OH MY GOD” moments ever if it had been kept a secret.
I guess it makes you think that the crew dies, too, so at least you had to go see it to see that they’re all OK.
#6 me too once I saw it I was completly hooked.
I would be freaking pissed if I had seen that before I saw the movie. Totally giving away that the Enterprise blows up. Good grief.
I think STIII was the second-closest to being like a TOS episode, probably because of Leonard Nimoy’s influence. I think his direction was just right, because he went for the characters. There was plenty of wham-bam stuff, but the characters, the camaraderie, the willingness to sacrifice is what Nimoy focused on. The story was a perfect continuation of TWOK, and watching them back-to-back actually works pretty well (overlooking a few minor discontinuities). William Shatner was superb, and never looked more comfortable in the role of Kirk. On the down side, the “Saavik/David scenes” left me flat. They didn’t have any chemistry together, and they should have. I also thought the “pon far” scene was rather uninteresting.
Altogether, it’s a decent film and has taken a little more criticism than it really deserves, IMO.
My God, Bones, what have I done?
Absolutely adoring the lack of a secrecy fetish in this trailer.
The Big E blowing up has to be one of the biggest WOW moments in the history of Star Trek! To this day whenever I watch the movie I still think to myself OMG they just blew up the Enterprise!
And Kirk’s son, David being killed by the Klingons has to be one of the Klingons has to be one of the most vulnerable moments for Kirk. The pure heartache and dispair at losing a son he had only just barely begun to know.
11 – Turned Death into a fighting chance to live.
12, 13 – The destruction of the Enterprise lost a lot of it’s impact when the trailer spoiled the surprise.
I think Harve Bennet said something to that effect on the Special Edition DVD.
I actually cried when the Enterprise bridge exploded.
I watched II and III for the first time back to back. Due to that first impression, I tend to view them as one long movie. Star Trek III is hoot. I never understood why people would bang on about the odd number curse when I always thought this was an entertaining film.
10 – I’m very glad you found the pon farr scene uninteresting. I would be a little freaked out by anyone saying “that scene where Saavik has sex with a mentally vacant 14 year old was awesome!”
just saying.
More seriously, I am also one of those whose first theater-trek was TSFS and I’m glad this movie seems to be getting marginally more respect then it used to when it was just thought of as an ugly middle child between TWOK’s boldness and TVH’s humor.
A great movie, but if I was a Trek fan back then and had seen this trailer, I would have been PISSED to see them show the Enterprise destruction scene. As I was when I saw the Generations trailer ARGH!!!!
Classic. Makes me go =)
I wish Kirstie Alley would have stuck around, though.
I can’t wait for the new trailer.
I want to see what kind of goodies ILM has cooked up for us this time.
Yeah, baby.
For a solid film like ‘Search’ was, the trailer has always seemed like a hashup. We get an idea about what happens in the film, and a few mildly intriguing moments from its run… but it feels somehow ‘tired.’
I always get a message from this that is not ‘you have GOT to see this movie!’… but, rather, ‘oh, well, it’s another Star Trek movie.’ To me, it’s the weakest of the trailers of all the 10 films, with lousy voiceover, lousy copy, and adequate use of the Horner score.
Too bad; ‘Search’ isn’t my favorite by any means, but it has no obvious flaws to me; rather, it is just a solid, reliable, engaging Trek film.
But the trailer? Well, I await tomorrow’s offering — one of my favorites!
I remember seeing the trailer. And back then I thought it was a gimmick, that it was another starship that was going to blow up. So it did catch me by surprise when it actually happened. I just didn’t think they would do it.
I remember practically crying when I saw the E in flames in that trailer. We had all seen Kirk, Spock, and assorted others croak then come back, plus we’d heard Spock was coming back to life… so his death was small potatoes. But… the E! Noooooo!
Also — God bless the Reverend Jim. I wish they had looked harder to cast that roll. Lloyd looks like Trek’s Jar Jar Binks.
I too saw III on opening day, as I have every Star Trek movie since 1979. I’m honestly glad to see that someone else came away with the impression that they killed a main character in Star Trek when the ship was blown up. I saw the ad and was aghast! It seems very odd that 1984 was so long ago now. . . .
calling this series the ‘STO9′ trailer countdown is very confusing! the new film is ST11! they are not commonly identified by their year of release.
I wasn’t too heartbroken when the Enterprise went up. I was more concerned about Spock coming back. I knew they could always get another ship. The TV series Enterprise had changed so much, I was kind of indifferent about it.
I read somwhere that Roddenberry was furious about that trailer, as he indeed intended the E’s destruction to be a big surprise. Seems in those days the production crew didn’t have much influence on marketing. I guess its different today. At least I hope so.
#26, I think the film should be just “Star Trek”
No bloody I…II…III..IV…….etc.
…and the pain of seeing the Enterprise go down in flames
Captain Robert April (#3),
Where have you heard that Leonard Nimoy didn’t understand the importance of the Enterprise’s destruction? He’s gone on record publicly stating that he was very upset that Paramount decided to give that information away in the trailer precisely because he knew how much impact it would have. I’ve heard him say it myself at conventions. I’d love to know your source for that bit of information, because it directly contradicts everything I’ve ever heard or read about that scene’s inclusion in the trailer.
Secondly, viewing the trailer again brought back a funny memory. Way back in 1983, Walter Koenig was the guest at one of the first Creation Conventions held here in Pittsburgh. Shooting had just wrapped on TSFS, and during his stage appearance I asked him if the rumors were true that the Enterprise was going to be destroyed in the film. Mr. Koenig looked at me with pity in his eyes, then got down on his knees, turned his eyes to the heavens, and said “May God strike us all dead if we ever had the audacity to destroy the Enterprise.”
A few months later, I saw the trailer and sat in stunned disbelief as the Enterprise was blown to bits. I shook my fist at the screen and yelled “Walter Koenig lied to me!!!” This brought some hearty guffaws from the audience and my friends teased me mercilessly. I was so angry that I honestly can’t even remember which movie the trailer was attached to, but I do remember seething in my seat the entire time, furious that I had been so dramatically deceived.
Ah, the lessons of childhood. By the way, some of my friends still, to this day, use Koenig’s response when I question the veracity of something. I’ll have to thank him for that if I ever meet him again (grumble, grumble).
I’ve seen every Trek film in the cinema. Must say that I am so glad that I never saw the trailer for TSFS before going to an advance screening of the movie. It would have spoiled everything for me. I still remember how my jaw literally fell open when the Enterprise was destroyed.
In all honesty I am glad that Abrams is not giving anything away for the new movie. Hope it continues with the contents of the trailer.
I don’t Hate STV. Don’t love it, but It had it’s moments.
TMP I recently watched the Directors cut, but even without it, I still dugg it.
When it comes to STIII I Have to agree with Ballz on this. The Best of the Odd numbered Trek Movies.
and yes, I do mean SO FAR………………..
Even though i love the film i try avoid it alot these days as when tv ever shows a Star Trek film its always this one and i’ve seen it too many times so i’ll only watch it when i’m in the mood for it now but a fave scene of mine is the stealing of the Enterprise.
“The word sir?”
“the word is no but i am therefore going anyway”
Such an under-rated film! The destruction of the Enterprise should go down in history as one of the iconic moments of cinema. It’s just as powerful as ‘Luke, I am your father’. Cannot believe they blew that in the trailer.
I never saw the trailer for this, and didn’t see it at the cinema. Watched it on my Grandad’s VHS taped off the TV right after watching ST:II, so I got the full impact of the unexpected destruction of the Enterprise. I WAS GUTTED.
Classic film. I remember thinking how aggressive and mean the Klingon Bird-of-Prey looked, how sleek and sexy the Excelsior looked. The ’stealing the Enterprise’ scene is absolutely fantastic!
Shatner actually does some reasonable acting in this, and you really feel for the character. He loses his son and his ship within the space an hour. Really get the rage when he’s kicking Kruge in the face…
‘I… HAVE HAD… ENOUGH OF… YOU!’
That bit makes me howl with laughter every time – even when Kirk is raging mad with revenge and bloodlust, you still get those Shatnerific pauses!
The only things I wish were slightly different about ST:III – it’s kind of implied that Saavik ‘helps’ Spock through his Pon Farr, but a lot of it is lost. That should have been clarified – added an emotional dimension to Saavik’s character.
And there’s a bit of a continuity error – when Kruge is watching the Genesis presentation, it’s Kirk presenting it. In ST:II, it was Carol Marcus. Picky, picky, I know.
#5 Harry Ballz, I’ll go further than that, put TWOK, TSFS, and TVH together as a Star Trek trilogy, and watch them back to back, absolutely awesome. What a voyage.
#29
On the official Star Trek Site it is called “Star Trek The Movie”
#All
I love Star Trek III – Best scene is the stealing of the enterprise “May the Wind be at our back” the star trek family was never so good as in II, III and IV.
About the Pon Farr scene…if you look the DVD with comments you know that they just had … sex.
#34
I always wondered about that too. The only thing that occurred to me was that Kirk had to make a report to his superiors about the Khan incident and rather than just tack on her recording, he plagarised her presentation.
My take on it. Others may differ.
STIII is an interesting Trek film. It has a bunch of great moments in which the sum do not add up to a great movie. A good movie but not great.
Basically any of the scenes with Saavik and David on the Genesis planet are painful to watch. All the scenes with the original cast rocked.
‘Jim. Your name is Jim.’ plus the raised eyebrow at the end always get me.
…and the adventure continues….
@35:
ST:II, III, IV and VI – watched back to back, makes a fantastic 4-part saga.
@37:
Yeah, I kind of presumed they did, I just wish it made it a bit clearer in the film. I’m not talking about seeing them at it in the bushes, but a little more clarity would have helped.
@38:
As good an explanation as any! I’ll go with that.
#34
I hardly think that Kirk doing the Genesis presentation was a continuity error. I always thought that perhaps Carol convinced Kirk to re-do the presentation to add a bit of legitimacy to the project.
Or rather, as #38 points out, it was Kirk making a report to his superiors. Since it has become a top secret military project, having civilian Carol Marcus doing the presentation would be a bit inconsistent, don’ t you think?
In reality, it was probably the quickest way to establish that the Klingons knew that Kirk was involved.
i thought this movie looked great!
the new klingon ship, the awesome space station, seeing vulcan homeworld. really great looking and expensive looking film. it was the last good one…they really dropped in quality and budget after this
@41:
There are several explanations that we can come up with in hindsight. My point is that I felt it was a particularly weak plot element, especially given the fact that a different character presented virtually exactly the same presentation in the previous film.
If, as #38 pointed out, it was actually Kirk’s report to Starfleet Command on the Khan incident, it shouldn’t have been almost verbatim for Carol Marcus’s original presentation. It would have been more a report on why the Reliant was destroyed (along with the Regula 1 station, presumably) with a loss of all hands except Chekov, why the Enterprise got such a walloping and most importantly, what had happened to the Genesis project. I personally thought it could have been done better.
This is my only pedantic (and I know it is pedantic) observation in what I otherwise consider one of my favourite Trek films.
Apart from Saavik. I thought both Kirsty Alley in ST:II and Robin Curtis in ST:III and IV did OK, but I’d prefer it if the character was played by the same actress across all films. And it should have been Saavik instead of Valeris in ST:VI – played by the same actress.
Now, I have only one question.
WHERE THE HECK did all that extra battle damage on the Enterprise come from? Even as a toddler watching this movie constantly on VHS I noticed that a lot of the battle markings didn’t belong there.
Oh, and the commentary track is a great one if you have yet to own the collector’s edition. As #15 said, Harve Bennet actually recounts the reactions of the crew when the trailer department came out with their preview for the movie. “We almost cried.”
My favorite moment in the commentary is when Leonard talks about Michael Eisner (Head of Paramount at the time) and how they were at a party just after the screening. MIchael is talking to one guy and Leonard is talking to another with their backs to each other. Leonard over hears Michael’s conversation where the person he’s talking to asks “How did it come to Leonard directing the picture?” and Michael says, without knowing that Mr. Nimoy is right behind him answers “He told me he was going to direct the movie or I could go f*** myself!” lol. The later ruler of Disney ladies and gentlemen!
Strange…I’ve never seen THIS trailer. I’ve got another, longer trailer which I’ve taken for the one and only trailer…
All hail the greatest of the odd-numbered TREK movies!
Terry Pratchett was a guest at a UK convention where TSFS was screened in the main hall in about 1989. He gave a very endearing little speech at the closing ceremony where he said how wonderful it had been to meet all the fans and get to know them, and how sorry he now was that he’d laughed when the Enterprise blew up.
in my own humble opinion STWOK was the best of the original crew, but the only film to come close to it was First Contact, it had the humor and fun of startrek, but still managed to have a gritty human side to it.
As others have noted, this was Shatner’s best film outing as Kirk, all of the hero with a lot of emotional depth. Despite the highly predictable outcome — certainly they wouldn’t go searching for Spock if the idea wasn’t to find him — a solid, fun romp.
I got a little scared at the end when the movie title came zooming on the screen. I thought it might be a trailer for Xanadu :(
I just realized that this trailer is the reason why I NEVER watch trailers for ST movies. Seriously, since then, I’ve shut my eyes and ears in theaters, and in my living room. every time a ST trailer comes on. It takes enormous self restraint, but it’s so much better to walk into the movie knowing nothing (except in the case of ST V – had I watched those trailers I probably wouldn’t have been so angry after seeing the film. Even the trailers, I recall, indicated a sucky movie. We’ll see in a bit when it’s posted I guess). Of course, this is all blown to hell this time, thanks not only to the internet but also the long drought of real Trek – I couldn’t resist reading everything this site has put up. Damn this blog!
The weird zany romp of the stealing of the Enterprise always felt way out of place stuck in the middle of this incredibly somber and serious plot of finding Spock. Not sure if that’s Harve’s fault for writing it that way or if Nimoy took liberties with the script and directed the whole sequence with a light touch. Regardless, that, along with the flowery dialog by Bennett makes this outing one of my least favorites.
Harve Bennett (in Shatner’s “Star Trek Movie Memories” book) said he didn’t know what the trailer looked like until he saw it on TV at home – he’d been wanting to keep the destruction of the Enterprise a secret, then boom! It blows up on his TV! He couldn’t believe it.
#52: “The weird zany romp of the stealing of the Enterprise always felt way out of place stuck in the middle of this incredibly somber and serious plot of finding Spock.”
Well, compared to the outrageous TOS episode where music singing hippies take over the Enterprise, I’m not going to complain on this scene. If those childish characters could steal the Enterprise, I’m pretty certain that Kirk and company could to. Plus, stealing the ship was pretty much the climax of the film where there was no going back after Kirk gave the order to go into warp.
Someone forgot to memo the trailer editing team that the E blowing up was supposed to be a secret. Inter-office communication is important in these matters. Imagine the first trailer for Planet of the Apes showing the Statue of Liberty!
I found this on youtube just a couple of seconds ago and it shows Leonard Nimoy and someone else watching what appears to be an alternate trailer that was never released.
It comes in at 00:17
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTPxB2cBgGo
#50 – And what is wrong with Xanadu? :P
I always felt ST:III was mainly for the fans. It’s one that I love but my non-Trekkie friends fail to appreciate, and I can see why. You have to understand and care an awful lot about the Trekiverse (pon farr, Vulcan mysticism, everything that happened in Wrath of Khan) to really grok it.
Which I do, of course. But it has a narrow appeal.
Lots of problems, should have been longer. But STILL a very worthy Trek film IMO.
I think the number-one gripe I have is that the most thrilling sequence (for me) happens too early in the movie: when Kirk takes the Big E out of spacedock. That sequence was so well executed in fact, that it was hard to beat from that point forward.
For me, anyway.
#5
Harry I must agree with you there. That really is hard to beat.
#5:
“To be brutally honest……..I think TWOK+TSFS, watched as a back-to-back double bill, is probably the best 3.5 hours of TREK (in the movie series) ever produced!”
Ditto from me. If ever in the mood for a TREK film, I will carve out enough time to watch TWOK and TSFS back-to-back.
#35:
“…put TWOK, TSFS, and TVH together as a Star Trek trilogy, and watch them back to back, absolutely awesome”
If the music score of TVH had been composed by Horner, I’d agree.
Hmm.
“Join us on this! The final voyage of the Starship Enterprise!”
Ok. Let’s put that phrase “Join us on this!” into perspective for the entire movie saga.
:::::::::SPOILERS!:::::::
ST:TMP: Join us on this! Kirk and crew confront a 200 year old Earth Probe that intends to destroy all life on Earth!
ST:TWOK: Join us on this! The final mission of Mr. Spock!
ST:TVH: Join us on this! Kirk and crew bring extinct whales back to the 23rd century to save Earth!
ST:TFF: Join us on this! Spock’s renegade brother forces the crew of the Enterprise to confront a fake alien god!
ST:TUC: Join us on this! Kirk and crew save the day one last time!
ST:G: Join us on this! The final voyage of the Enterprise D and the death of Captain Kirk!
ST:FC: Join us on this! Captain Picard finally gets his revenge!
ST:I: Join us on this! Troi shaves Riker’s beard while they take a bath! (Seriously, that’s all that really happens in this movie)
ST:N: Join us on this! The death of Data!
Since the trilogy thing has been brought up, I have a question for everyone. What would you call this trilogy of Star Trek movies?
The Genesis Trilogy?
Death and Rebirth?
I remember disliking the fact that the Enterprise came to such an end in this Movie at all….and REALLY disliking the fact that it was given away in the trailer in the first place! I just hope we don’t see J.J.’s new Enterprise blowing up in the forthcoming trailer….
Sure would love his new Bridge to have somewhat similar ‘electronic hum’ and ‘emergency alert’ sound effects to TOS one by the way.
The other thing I forgot to mention re: STIII
Christopher Lloyd did a commendable job in the role of Kruge – he had a couple of good moments – but he never really had a fighting chance to make the character ultra great. How could he impress us in that role after we paid witness to one of THE greatest villains in all of Star Trek: Khan.
Again, I’ve watched it a dozen times and to this day I have felt this film needed to be at least 10 minutes longer. It would be several notches better in my book if they had injected a couple of more locales/environments featuring Kruge. Whenever I watch this movie I always feel as if Kruge just sort of “shows up,” does a few maneuvers, and then beams down to the Genesis planet – - it just goes by way too fast. Not enough meat to this character or his motivation.
Anyone else agree with me on this?
It’s funny that Nimoy and other producers, etc. didn’t GET that the Enterprise itself is a BIG character. We’re not talking of the caliber of Sulu or Nurse/Doctor Chapel…we’re talking more like Scotty or Bones at least. Possibly even as big as Kirk or Spock, so why show it’s demise in the trailer. In fact, I was so ticked off about it that I almost skipped the movie. I was more ticked off about it than Spock’s Trek 2 death, because at that time I wasn’t too thrilled with Leonard (I am not Spock) Nimoy after he almost held out of Star Trek: The Motion Picture. It never quite felt the same after the big E blew up (no bloody A, B, C, or D’s).
Prediction: More people will be upset if they mess too much with the interior and ESPECIALLY the exterior of the Enterprise, than they will with any of the characters in the upcoming movie.
Loved the SFX in STIII, new ships, space stations, planets, explosions.
Remember the ILM book The Art of Special Effects ( http://go.time-safe.com/117lb54j – Amazon link ) had a great 3 page spread of the E in Spacedock which in the copy in my local library got removed / fell out somehow ( sorry, I was young and less moral than I am now )
And as said earier, STII,III+IV makes a great under-rated triology.
Re: Nimoy, Bennet, the others concepting Trek III
They probably sat around thinking up ways to excite the audience. One of ‘em says, “How do we possibly top Spock dying? What can we do to shock the audience?”
Someone else answers, “Hey! I know! What if we blow up the Enterprise? Just blow the whole damn thing up?!”
Or something along those lines.
Maybe for Nimoy it was all about whether Spock was going to be in the film at the end, as the big surprise, rather than the Enterprise blowing.
Kirstie Alley was too emotional for a Vulcan in TWOK. Vulcans don’t get teary-eyed and gasp as she did. Robin Curtis was more Vulcan-like, stern, and abrasive. I considered her a rather hottie back in the day, too.
Glad I never saw the trailer until AFTER the movie. That clip would have pissed me off.
It’s a shame that in all future Star Trek movies, most capital ships seem to blow to bits like a small space ship, hardly leaving any trace behind. This explosion seems to be the most real and heartbreaking scene for a ship of this magnitude. Not every ship has a warp core breach right before destruction, for God’s sake.
Trek 3 was a great movie and had a great music score. we realy got to know the Klingons and see how vicious they could be. it had hart and drama and action and suspense. The Big E blowing up was a hart wrencher. As kirk said. My god Bones what have i done. And Mccoy says. What you have always done. Turn death into a fighting chance to live. Very profound moment and very hart wrenching.
For me, the greatest point in this film was there at the very end – when Spock says “Jim… Your name is Jim!” – Kirk’s smile, the celebration of the crew, and the famous raised eyebrow, accompanied by the theme music from the TV show – still can bring a tear to my eye after all these years…
Marcus’ character was killed off at the request of the actor who portrayed him, the late Merritt Buttrick. He was later quoted as saying he didn’t want to be known for the rest of his career as, as I recall, “the guy whose daddy was Captain Kirk,” or words to that effect.
The destruction of the Enterprise was hardly a surprise to those who followed the rumor mills during production of the film.
Ah yes, the destruction of the Enterprise. I remember it in the theaters. It was the first time I had heard the destruct codes. As Kirk and company said them to the computer more and more people in the theater began to recite them. When the final code was given, the entire theater (except me) said it. Then I remember looking around as the ship burned up and I remember people were crying. That was day I realized how big a deal this Star Trek thing really was.
“..you Klingon Ba*tard!”
I’ve always thought that Kirk stealing the Enterprise was the epitome of his ballsiness and really one of his defining moments. It showed there was nothing this guy wouldn’t do if he thought it was the right thing.
Anthony, thanks for putting these trailers up. It’s great fun watching them again!
Love the story being a tale of life and death and rebirth.
I can’t watch WOK without watching this one immediately afterwards – what a great four hours of escapism….
Did Merritt Buttrick die recently? I must have totally forgotten but it does sound familiar like I must have read it somewhere.
I thought Kirstie Alley was the better Saavik. True she shouldn’t have shed a tear or gasp but She was a definite hottie back then and her eyes gave the character an even more exotic look than just the ears. Plus Kirstie’s a better actress IMHO, even as a Vulcan.
As for Savik and the pon farr, I have always assumed she got pregnant from it with Spock and that’s why she didn’t return with the crew in STIV.
#74: I remember the destruction of the Enterprise too. When the crew were giving the destruct codes, people in the theater were just waiting for the moment Kirk would cancel the sequence. Then when the ship exploded, for the first few seconds the people were cheering because the Klingons were getting blown up along with it. Then they realized what was happening, and no one was cheering. Dead silence and I swear I heard sobbing (besides myself). Sad moment…
OK, I googled Merritt. I don’t think I ever knew that he died from AIDS complications so long ago, on March 17th, 1989. RIP.
I love ST:III. Mythic is exactly the tone and why not? I love what Nimoy did. Star Trek III proves thar the odd numbered movie curse is not true.
I agre that it is totally under-rated, brilliant sequel to ST:II, yet different.
Emotional turmoil, kill Kirk’s son, Sock’s a vegetable, blow up the ship!
I love the ship stealing scene.
I was 7 and horrified, and I loved it and still do.
I think they had their sh*t toghether for 2 & 3 & bits of 4.
Crap trailer for 3 though.
According to the Art of Star Trek, there was a scene cut from 4 wher Saavik was shown as pregnant.
Ok, pros:
- Many new ships, space stations, etc
- Nice Horner’s score, not as good as TWOK, but still very good
- Klingons are nice, though I still prefer the TMP Klingons
- Stealing the Enterprise was cool
The cons:
- Dialogs are as awful as they can get
- Movie has a completely irregular pacing. Probably the movie is more exciting halfway than during the last 20 minutes.
- Special effects are ok, but TWOK was better. The way they lighted the ships was awful. The Enterprise was brighter than a 200W lamp
- Robin Curtis was a really bad actress. Just because she was incapable of convey any emotion to the role doesn’t mean that she was doing a great Vulcan interpretation. Wooden performance isn’t the same as great Vulcan impersonation
- Sets were all too small or just bad
- Too many big plot holes: why in name of God does Kirk want to go to Genesis? What was he expecting to find there? A rotten corpse? Why does Spock remember his lines from TWOK after the point he had already transferred his katra to McCoy?
ST 3 rules and is underrated
In one of the later articles I named TSFS as one of my last favorites.
That was perhaps a mistake. The movie has some really good and great elements, most of them visual and the TOS-humor was finally back. I loved the Excelsior, the Bird of Prey and the giant Spacedock, also I found the destruction of the Enterprise impressive. But I really don’t care much for that ship, because it’s not the TOS-Enterprise, just the refit (That “cold heart” of mine might have to do with the fact, that I watched TVH months before TSFS on VHS. I knew Kirk will get a new ship looking exactly like the lost one).
The stealing of the Enterprise was fantastic (that hilarious breakdown of the Excelsior for example), also all Klingon stuff in the movie. The vulcan ritual at the end I found a bit boring, because really nothing happend there. The starship-effects where superb, they never looked better and perhaps never will (as far as the Kelvin pictures shows us a glimpse of the new “CGI-quality” of XI)
The first time I saw this, I couldn’t watch Trek re-runs for weeks. I was devastated to see the Enterprise go down in flames. Having said that, this movie I think is better than was given credit for. Between the death of the Enterprise and David, I think it was too much bad stuff for people to take and that’s why it got such a negative vibe. The stealing of the Enterprise, busting McCoy out of jail, and the initial fight with the Klingon ship are really cool scenes. Can’t wait until May!
I love Star Trek III – it’s the most ‘startrek’ of all the films and the 2nd best Trek film imo – behind Khan/in front of First Contact and contains the best scene in ALL the films – the crew watching the Ent fall from the heavens….it gets a bad rap due to the faux even =good/odd = bad rule
Its like The Empire Strikes Back of the ‘Genesis Trilogy‘ (just as good as the original SW trilogy actually) Plus – as people have mentioned its close in tone to TOS (plus has tos stuff like Tribbles, Kirks climatic fight etc) And it contains the best FX in all the films (even the TNG ones – heres nothing better than actually physical models) It also introduced a truckload of new vessels etc that became a staple in the trek universe (BOP, Excelsior, Grissom, Mushroom space dock – I hope we see that space dock in the new film)
Two things that would’ve made it even better – Kirsty Alley as Savvik again which would’ve really connected it to TWOK and made stuff like Davids death all the more dramatic – instead she did the Tom Selleck/Michael Crichton (rip) film Runaway?! It would’ve been great to of had her in TrekVI as well as Meyer intended – Savvik betraying everyone would’ve been a massive shock twist…Also shooting some scenes on Genesis outdoors in a jungle or a national park etc would’ve given it a bigger sense of scale..
Silly to give away the ent blowing up in the trailer LOL…thatd be like having Spock in the radiation chamber saying ‘live long and prosper’ in the ST II trailer!
# 84 Too many big plot holes: why in name of God does Kirk want to go to Genesis? What was he expecting to find there? A rotten corpse? Why does Spock remember his lines from TWOK after the point he had already transferred his katra to McCoy?
- He didn’t remembered this! This where the questions which he had in mind last – he didn’t know he saved the ship. His mind awoke at this point again. So he had to ask for this!!!
- What did Kirk expect to find on the Genesis and why did he go there? Easy! Remember the scene with Saavik…he asked Kirk “Why did you left him on Genesis?” and also Kirk said “If there is a CHANCE” he didn’t know Spock was alive….when he arrived at Genesis he asked “And this Vulcan…is he alive?”
I saw TSFS in Portland, Maine, and when Christopher Lloyd showed up as Kruge, the whole cinema erupted in laughter.
Happened the other two times I saw it as well.
Lloyd was fine as Kruge, but just too well known as Jim on “Taxi.”
It’s a great film. I especially loved Mark Lenard’s return as an emotionally distraught Sarek.
FOR ANTHONY:
Alternative Star Trek 3 Theatrical Trail from UK:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc3Nqa4SL8c
#89 Remember the scene with Saavik…he asked Kirk “Why did you left him on Genesis?”
That was Sarek.
Hokey. Bad. The next worst right after V.
I remember seeing this when it showed for the first time in front of “Indians Jones and the temple of Doom” and people were still reacting to the trailer 10 minutes into the Indy movie. TSFS is the exception to the “bad odd-numbered movie” and was an exceptionally vibrant, exciting, visiual movie and great companion piece to TWOK. The trailer should not have said “final voyage” but the enterprise visuals were amazing–we wanted to see more!
AWESOME movie, great trailer
I like TSFS alot. As has been mentioned earlier, it is an excellent companion piece to TWOK.
Nimoy does a fantastic job directing, and the theft of the Enterprise is one of the most well done scenes in all of Trek cinematic history…right up there with Spock’s death in TWOK.
With that said, there are some warts on it, IMO…
The dialogue induced canon gaffe in the exchange between Admiral Morrow and Admiral Kirk (”The Enterprise is 20 years old…”), for one.
The chronological progression of the ST Universe places TSFS 15 years after “Space Seed”, a 1st season TOS episode. “The Menagerie” is also from the 1st season, and the dialogue in that episode suggests that Spock served aboard the Enterprise 11 years (and some change) prior to that time. 15+11=26.
For those who consider TAS to be outside the realm of canon, the Enterprise would be a minimum of 26 years old at the time of TSFS.
For those who consider TAS, “The Counter-Clock Incident” to be canon, it would be a minimum of 36 years old at that time.
I find it difficult to believe that Admiral Morrow, a man who just participated in the decision to decommission a vessel with a history as storied as that of the Enterprise, would be so unfamiliar with its age as to make that kind of mistake. It certainly wouldn’t help his effort to drive home his point to Adm. Kirk to “round down” her age, especially 6-16 years.
I also never liked the use of Klingons as the villains (although Christopher Lloyd is fantastic as Kruge), when clearly, the Romulans were the more appropriate antagonists.
I know that “fanon” derived the notion of a mutual trade of military technology between The Klingon Empire and The Romulan Star Empire out of one single line of dialogue in “The Enterprise Incident” (”Intelligence reports indicate Klingons now using Romulan design”—Spock), but the use of a vessel “painted like a giant bird of prey” by Klingons did not sit well with me. That, according to “Balance Of Terror”, is a practice which distinguishes Romulan ships. Even if the Klingons had ‘purchased’ scoutships designed by Romulans, why would they paint them in a Romulan manner? It couldn’t have been an effort to disguise who they were, since Sulu and Kirk both instantly register it as a “Klingon” bird of prey. It seems unlikely that the Romulans would have surrendered their most precious tactical advantage (the cloaking device) over their rivals (the UFP and the Klingons) for the use of Klingon battlecruisers. Moreover, it seems unlikely at all that the notoriously xenophobic Romulans would enter in any such agreement with the Klingons in the first place.
Furthermore, if the villains (as planned) had been Romulans—the opportunity would have been there to make Saavik’s presence on the Genesis Planet more significant (given her “almost canon” backstory in the Vonda McIntyre novelizations of TWOK and TSFS).
Despite the continuity issues and missed opportunities, it’s still a very entertaining film, and a worthy companion piece to the more heralded TWOK.
I make no apologies for loving this one! So many great moments. As De Kelley once said, “Star Trek is a series built on moments.”
A few such great moments…
-The mindmeld between Sarek and Kirk always gives me goosebumps! Especially when Sarek’s voice morphs into Spock’s! And Kirk having to relive the pain of Spock’s death, “No…”
-McCoy’s confession to comatose Spock: “It seems that I’ve missed you. And I don’t know if I could stand to lose you again.” :-(
-The brief appearance of the TOS theme when Kirk and Spock look each other in the eye in the final scene.
-This is the movie that truly brought the humor back to Trek. “That green blooded son of a bitch. It’s his revenge for all those arguments he lost.” “How can you be deaf, with ears like that?”
-A good old fashioned Kirk fist fight – blood out the side of the mouth and all!
-Kirk being heroic enough to still try and save Kruge, after all he was responsible for, including David’s death.
-Sarek: “Forgive me, T’Lar. My logic is uncertain, where my son is concerned.”
And many more!
#96—-All great moments…
It would have been great if something like Uhura’s evasion of Starfleet Security and escape to asylum at the Vulcan Embassy under Sarek’s protection could have been incorporated into the film. That was a rather thrilling passage in the book. I especially like Sarek’s “May I help you?” approach to the Security Officers who had been chasing Uhura.
#92
Oh yes sorry…I meant Sarek ;) Thanks for the correction!
89: About Spock remembering lines from after the point he transferred his katra: it couldn’t be possible to Spock to remember that he had fixed the reactor or even died after that, so why ask about the ship, with the exact same lines? Besides, Kirk ask him: “You saved the ship, don’t you remember?”. Of course he doesn’t remember, and just shows that the whole thing was flawed.
About going back to Genesis, ok, Sarek asked Kirk to go to Genesis, but for what? Retrieve a dead body, take it back to Vulcan and what? Was the katra going to be transferred back to the dead body and then lost forever? If so, what is the point of transferring the katra for someone else in the first place? Or was the katra going to resurrect Spock’s body? Lets admit, all of that sounds like a very lame plot device to go back to Genesis. I think Harve could have come with something smarter. But then, considering the dialogs he wrote, maybe not…
That’s funny that when I first saw this movie (I was 14) I thought it was the coolest movie ever. Today I find it barely watchable…
#97 … It does seem, based on what we’ve heard, that Uhura’s largest role to date will be in the upcoming flick, doesn’t it? I’ll give JJ and the writers a lot of credit if they manage to make the new story a true ensemble piece, but still focused primarily on the Big 3.
I’d have to do fact checks on this, but I remember hearing that the original plan for TSFS was to use Romulans – which is why the ship is a Bird-of-Prey. Somewhere along the way, Klingons entered the mix, but no one changed the type of ship.
I also recall seeing an interview with Nimoy at the time the trailer came out, and he said, “I don’t know why they’re calling it the last voyage of the Enterprise, because it’s not.”
I think the destruction of the ship is the ultimate illustration of what Kirk has to go through because of his loyalty to Spock, and to his other friends. He’s always pulling a rabbit out of his hat, and this time it cost more. I thought it was a great plot point.
The Genesis tape with Kirk giving the report was shot in front of the same background as the Carol Marcus version, so it’s a tough sell that this is his report to Starfleet. As a film producer myself, I’m guessing they shot it both ways because they weren’t sure which version would end up in TWOK – depending on how Genesis gets introduced. The Kirk version in TSFS meant that they didn’t have to pay Bibi Besch for another movie.
There’s been some speculation that Saavik stayed on Vulcan because she’s pregnant with Spock’s child. This is hinted at with the shot of Amanda standing with Saavik as the E crew leaves. I seem to recall that Amanda took Saavik’s hand? Or it was shot, but cut.
Admiral Morrow’s comment about the age of the E fits with the refit timeline, so it’ s likely he means the “new” ship from TMP is roughly 20 years old.
As for Kirstie Alley’s “too emotional” performance – as has been noted here, and in several novels (so it might as well be canon… fanon?), Saavik is half-Romulan from the planet Hellguard. Rescued by Sarek and Co., raised (for a time) by Spock. She’s got a great back-story, and it would not have fit the plan to use her in ST VI. Saavik has too much loyalty to Spock and to Starfleet to do anything like what Valeris did. Valeris always struck me as having been decieved by Cartwright and Nanclus anyway. She just didn’t strike me as being the activist type, unless she was convinced she was doing the right thing.
“You’re name is Jim.” is probably one of the most emotional moments in all of Trek history. Just that one moment says that all is still right with the universe.
Alexander Courage’s theme HAS to be in the new movie. I’ve always felt it was under-utilized. Props to Jerry Goldsmith, but Courage’s theme was first.
#99—-” Sarek asked Kirk to go to Genesis, but for what? Retrieve a dead body, take it back to Vulcan and what?”
If I remember correctly from the novelization, there is some pseudo-religious ceremony involving the presence of the body and the placement of the ‘katra’ into some kind of storage device on Mt. Seleya for permanent record. It would be important to Vulcans because this special place records the ‘katras’ of important figures in Vulcan history. As T’Pring noted in “Amok Time”, Spock had become something of a legend among their people. Surely a “legend” would warrant a place there.
Sarek’s intention is for Kirk to retrieve Spock’s remains and bring both them and McCoy to Mt. Seleya for the ceremony and merely record Spock’s katra and presumably dispose of or bury his remains in an appropriate Vulcan manner. It is a surprise, of course, to learn that Spock’s body has been regenerated by the Genesis effect, and the ceremony to be performed then becomes the Fal-Tor-Pan (”refusion”). The film may not do it as much justice as did the novelization, but the premise is not all that bad, IMO.
This is the beginning of the end of Star Trek. Although I like the look of Space Dock, the Excelsior interior looks cheap, the Klingon interior looks cheap, the interior of the spacecraft that gets destroyed near the beginning looks beyond cheap, like it was filmed on a boat with a bunch of extra nets and cargo boxes used for backdrop, Shatner’s hair gets a perm. Klingons become caraicatures. The Genisis planet is a poorly constructed backlot, don’t even get me started on the actors portraying David and Saavik I remembering laughing out load at their acting in the theatre (even as a teenager I realized how bad their performance was). This film had potential but went south pretty fast, and since that time I have been disappointed more often than not with each passing film in the series, First Contact is the only film afterwards that did not continue to mostly suck in the series. The Undiscovered Country was OK but the very cheap effects and redressing of TNG sets to look like the new Enterprise made it unwatchable. I blame both Paramount and poor writers and directors since ST ii for the destruction of the series.
Great underrated film. Though it was obviously produced on a tv show budget from a production values standpoint. (Sets not the excellent effects) Maybe Kirk’s finest dramatic moment ever. One of cinema’s best ever desperate savage fistfights (Better than Connery Vs. Shaw on the Orient Express)
I thought Christopher Lloyd did a fine job. Of course a Klingon was a lettdown after Khan better many non Trekkies argue that Khan was the best movie villian ever so I think it’s more than a bit unfair.
This movie had all the elements. Music was terrific as well
AND I think this is still the best Trek trailer ever.
My Third Favorite Trek behind TMP and Khan
Already saw it in HD
#101—”I remember hearing that the original plan for TSFS was to use Romulans – which is why the ship is a Bird-of-Prey. Somewhere along the way, Klingons entered the mix, but no one changed the type of ship.”
That is correct.
“Admiral Morrow’s comment about the age of the E fits with the refit timeline, so it’ s likely he means the “new” ship from TMP is roughly 20 years old.”
Not even close. It would only have been 7.5 years since the completion of the 18 month long refit. That hardly equates to “roughly 20 years”.
TMP is 7.5 years after the beginning of the 5 year mission, according to that film’s dialogue. TWOK-TSFS is 15 years after the beginning of the 5 year mission (or at least the first season episode “Space Seed”), according to the dialogue in TWOK.
You do the math…
It is a ‘canon’ gaffe, not sufficiently explainable…It’s simply a continuity mistake on the part of Harve Bennett and Leonard Nimoy.
my god… those were great movies, the original crew is amazing and what about the music……!!!hope that will make a good soundtrack for the new movie but i dont believe ill feel the same again….
Christopher Lloyd is still my favorite Klingon….
My favorite moment in this film:
“Kirk…”
“You do this and you’ll never sit in the captain’s chair again…”
God that was a great delivery and so dramatic – gives me chills every time I watch it.
The destruction of the Enterprise is still one of the better special effects that a Trek movie has had since they began. It was a beautiful way to show it’s doom. I loved how they showed it burning from the inside out before the saucer section imploded then blew up. Also, it was cool that the entire ship did not obliterate as this is probably more realistic. I would think that sooner or later the matter-anti-matter would mix and create a final explosion, probably as it entered and started to burn up in the atmosphere. But, seeing the crew watching their beloved ship and home-away-from-home become a fireball in the Genesis planet evening sky was a final image that I’ll remember forever, as did our famous crew.
#103—-I don’t know that I see it as the beginning of the end for the Star Trek film series, but I do agree with you to some extent…particularly about the Klingons.
It has always been disappointing to me that the late decision to cast the Klingons in place of the Romulans as villains was the catalyst for TNG’s ruining of the Klingons.
It is unfortunate that the TNG-era Klingons used what I always looked at as a somewhat rogue group of Klingons under Kruge as a template for their interpretation of the Klingon race moving forward. The TNG-era Klingons became unrecognizable from their TOS-era ancestors (far beyond their physical appearance).
It seems clear to me that the inspiration for the Klingons (post TSFS) was solely the dozen or so aboard that “bird of prey”, and the classic Kor (”Errand Of Mercy”), Kang (”Day Of The Dove”), Kras (”Friday’s Child”), and even Koloth (”The Trouble With Tribbles”) were all but forgotten as a template for who the Klingons were.
They went from being every bit as sophisticated, thoughtful, cunning, efficient, and intelligent as they were ruthless and violent, to being basically ‘cavemen in space’ who stink, eat live food, howl, growl, drink too much “bloodwine”, spend far too much time in practice of ridiculous ceremony, sing chanties and “opera”, and predicate their lives upon some severely flawed notion of honor—none of which is inspired at all by TOS.
It is hard to imagine them as even being the same race, with or without the ridges, fangs, and long, unkept hair…
Arrrrrrr…
I recall this trailer I does… seein’ tha’ “last voyage” o’ tha’ Enterprize and it blowin’ up and all- quite thrillin and dsad and effective ta’ get ye’ in tha’ theatre. Spectacular.
Trashin’ tha’ Enterprize in Generations wasn’t as spectacular- I mean how did no one got seriously hurt in tha’ crash even wit’oot seatbelts? Even tha’ pussycat got through unscathed.
But Starry Trek 3 wuz grand and never had I seen such a spectacle ta’ bring back a dead character…
What’s tha’ lesson we learn? Try? Cuz, despite such loss and meetin’ Reverand Jim as a great Klingon foe (first o’ his kind like that) if ye’ do not try then tha’ cost would be yer’ soul? If only Generations had crashed on Yoda’s planet and smooshed that speech-impaired smug little puppet who claimed thar’ be no try, only do.
Great film… I should see it again soon… anyone got a spare betamax tape o’ it?
Arrrrrrrrrrr…
TSFS is certainly the most underrated Trek film. And that has everything to do with how great TWOK is, and our collective emotional connection to Spock’s self-sacrifice.
But in fact, watching these films back-to-back, the cinematography, the iconic dialog, the creation of the ‘modern’ Klingon culture, TSFS is a significantly better-produced film. Consider the shots of the Enterprise in spacedock seen in the trailer, the somber scenes on Vulcan, and the painterly scene of the Enterprise’s contrail as it enters the atmosphere of Genesis. I’m a big fan of TUC and its Shaksepearean ambitions, but Kruge is far and away the greatest Klingon villain of all time. The tragedy of David’s death, in the context of Kirk’s entire life, gives Kirk that much more gravitas. It deepens his humor. Indeed, I’d argue that the death of David is what once-and-for-all solidified the familial relationship between the bridge crew. My heart stirs just writing this.
“Klingon bastard… you’ve killed my son.” [Any questions that Kruge is the all time greatest Klingon villain?]
Again, I do think TWOK is a full measure grater than TSFS. But TSFS, with the death of Kruge’s dog, the great character moments for Uhura and Sulu:
“Don’t call me tiny.”
… and the shear audacity of stealing the Enterprise, it’s a deeply satisfying motion picture and incredibly influential installment in Trek. Think for a while how many things that we take for granted about Trek came from that film: The Bird of Prey, The Excelsior, Modern Klingons, the Enterprise family… I’m sure y’all can think of more.
And what made the ‘death’ of the 1701 so incredible was its slow disintegration, the death spiral, view ground-level view of the ship’s plunge into the atmosphere of Genesis… and most of all, that Kirk not only enlisted his ‘family’ to sacrifice their careers [quite willingly] for the needs of the ‘one’ Spock, but that they also sacrificed their ship/home and beamed down to a dying world. It’s just a stunning scene that’s a hair’s width short of Spock’s death scene.
I do wish that Kirstie Alley hadn’t punked out on TSFS. Of course they had sex, but what few people remark on is that they had to do it at least 5 times to bring Spock’s body up to his TSFS age.
I wonder why Trek writers have never picked up the thread of Spock and Saavik’s son?
Also, the fact that elder Spock’s physical body in the new film is in fact not the same body as younger [Quinto] Spock’s physical body may explain how they can occupy the same timeline.
Can’t frieken wait.
I… have had… enough, of, you!!
#52
You and I are watching two different movies. The theft sequence isn’t a zany romp. It’s light-hearted in parts, certainly, but the dramatic tension is underscored by Stiles last words to Kirk ‘You do this, you’ll NEVER sit in a Captain’s chair again…’ You can see in Shatner’s (Kirk’s) eyes that the weight of what he’s doing hasn’t hit him until that very moment. The whole thing crashes into him right then and there…he realizes he’s giving up the one thing that has meant the most to him his entire life.
It’s that moment, coupled with David’s death and the destruction of the Enterprise that make this one of my favorites. The emotional impact and cost was never higher than in this film. Kirk loses his son, his ship and his command, all for the flimsiest of hopes that he can repay a debt to his best friend. The film, at its core, is what Star Trek has always been about.
#112—”I wonder why Trek writers have never picked up the thread of Spock and Saavik’s son?”
“…in your condition” (Kirk to Saavik on Vulcan), was a line cut from the script of TVH which would have emphasized the possibility.
Since Saavik is missing from subsequent Star Trek films, the potential for offspring is still there, however never explored since.
#43 Reliant wasn’t lost with all hands. I just watched TWOK again the otehr day and if memory serves Checkov says that Khan abandoned her crew on Ceti Alpha 5…which makes one wonder what happens to them, because we never see Enterprise returning to pick them up.
I’ve always thought the best line in TSFS, and some of the best acting I’ve seen from The Shat, was when they’re all watching Enterprise burn up in the atmosphere and he asks “My God, Bones, what have I done?”
Regarding Admiral Morrow’s line about the age of Enterprise, I rememer reading once upon a time that the producers chose 20 years so as not to confuse the casual Trek fan who would notice that it’s only roughly 20 years from 1966 to 1984.
Then again, that could have just been a fanon explanation. Pinning down the actual age would take in a number of factors, such as whether one accepts Robert April as the first commander. In any case, the 20 years is obviously wrong. Assuming “Space Seed” was in the first year of Kirk’s command, it’s 15 years between that episode and TWOK. Spock stated in “The Menagerie” that he had served under Pike for 11 years. Add a 1 1/2 year refit, and the youngest age you get is 27 1/2 years. A number which likely doesn’t include construction, testing, and shakedown time.
I think Closettrekker has gone into this in more detail in numerous other threads, so I defer to him in this matter. :)
For you guys who still insist that going back to Genesis to retried Spock’s body makes sense, remember that when the USS Grison found the coffin-torpedo thing still intact they were kind of surprised, because it was supposed to have burned up entering the atmosphere or crashed into the planet, but didn’t due to some “gravitational fields”… So Kirk shouldn’t have assumed he was going to find a body there, neither should Sarek, who had just mind-melded with him. Lets admit, bad plot device…
#43 James
I like what you are saying with the Saavik continuity thing.
I have read somewhere that the powers that be originally planned for Saavik to be the betraying Enterprise crewman that Valeris was in STVI, but they eventually decided that Saavik would never betray the Federation in that fashion, ergo the creation of the Valeris character.
#114—” Kirk loses his son, his ship and his command, all for the flimsiest of hopes that he can repay a debt to his best friend.”
All true, however it is important to note that the only ’sacrifice’ Kirk planned to make for the possibility of Spock’s “eternal soul” was that of his career.
“He’s saved my life a dozen times….Isn’t that worth a career?”—Kirk to McCoy (TOS, “Amok Time”)
Certainly, the loss of his son and the destruction of the Enterprise were quite unintended.
116: D’oh! Scratch that add a 1 1/2 year refit…it’s obviously part of that 15 years from “Space Seed” to TWOK. Math never was my strong suit…
With regard to Kruge – I’d have to agree with others who’ve said he suffered under the shadow of Kahn. Otherwise, he was a fantastic nemesis. He was one of the last clever Klingons, even seeing through Kirk’s standard bluff that has confounded many-a-Star Trek villain. Even if the dog wasn’t an entirely convincing puppet, Kruge’s rage at its death chills me to the bone every time I watch it. “EMERGENCY POWER!!! FULL THRUSTERS!”. Lloyd is seriously unhinged at that moment. It’s fantastic.
Best music by far of any of the Star Trek movies IMHO. James Horner’s scores are hauntingly moving, and capture the essence of Star Trek better than any other music created for it. I still hum this music in my head to this day, when I think of Star Trek.
This film along with ST II and TMP are the best of the TOC Trek movies. IV comes next, then VI, and lastly V.
Again, the fact that Nimoy is involved with the newest movie holds alot of weight for TOS fans I think.
#119
True, but as Sarek said to Kirk upon arrival at Vulcan – ‘At what cost? Your ship, your son.’ ‘If I hadn’t tried, the cost would have been my soul.’
Kirk may have only intended on sacrificing his career (something incredibly important to him), but he was willing to sacrifice everything.
105
Well reasoned posts as always but you need to add two years to the age of the Enterprise. Spock says TWICE in his court martial that the events being protrayed on the viewing screen are from 13 years past. That puts the minimum age of the E-Nil at 28 years not 26 as you state. Otherwise I agree with you on this completely.
A question I’ve always had about III (perhaps for Jeff Bond if he’s around): If you listen to the CD of James Horner’s score, during the “Stealing the Enterprise” track there’s a brief portion of music (from 2:58 to 3:11 in the track) that falls between where Uhura beams Kirk and company over to the E and when you see the exterior lights turning on on the ship. Since (as I understand it) most films are scored to final or near-final cuts, was there a scene or effects shot missing here? The jump in the music is almost noticable even if you haven’t heard the score separately.
I also wonder where all of the extra damage (particularly on the starboard side) of the E was supposed to have come from. ILM went overboard with the black airbrush?
Another thing I find interesting is that the original concept for the destruction of the Genesis planet was for it to spiral into the sun. This was actually shot with the sun appearing larger and larger in the sky as Kirk and Kruge fought but was deemed unconvincing. A still of this discarded effect is (I think) on the 2-disc DVD set.
Damn I love me some Star Trek, and I consider myself to be fairly hardcore when it comes to my full appreciation/enjoyment/attention and knowledge of TOS – but some of you guys put me to shame!!
#124—That’s quite correct. I’ve included that before in addressing this subject, but for some reason it slipped my mind today.
The minimum age of the Enterprise 15 years after “Space Seed” would have to be 28 years if “The Counter-Clock Incident” is not to be considered canon.
If it is, then the Enterprise was under the command of Captain Robert April in 2245, meaning it was already 20 years old by the start of Kirk’s historic 5 year mission.
Morrow cannot simply be referring to the age of the ship since its refit either. That would be the passage of only 7.5 years or so.
Morrow’s mistake would be less significant had he not just participated in the decision to decommission the Enterprise. It seems far too unlikely that he would not have done his homework. He would have to know how old she was.
I always felt the enterprise blowing up was cool as hell!
(granted I was only 4 when my parents recorded it off tv :P )
The Enterprise (as we’ll see in Star Trek next May) undergoes a massive internal and engineering refit after Pike’s mission wraps up in 2263. Kirk is appointed to the Enterprise after his gallant service in defeat of the unknown tattooed intruders when Pike is temporarily incapacitated due to Rigellian fever.
So, if Kirk oversees the 2263 refit, then by 2283 at the time of TSFS, the Big E is 20 years since Kirk took it over from Pike.
If the Starfleet Academy Commandant happens to be named Morrow, then the 20 years remark will suddenly all make sense.
I expect great things like this from the Supremes under the leadership of detail-attentive boborci.
I haven’t done the math, but the “20 year” comment would fit with the age of the ship at the time Kirk took over, right? Perhaps that’s the refit that Morrow uses as a basis for this comment. There are noticeable differences in design between “The Cage”, “Where No Man…” and the rest of TOS, so there had to be at least two refits done in that time. It could mean anything, if we want to retcon the comment badly enough…
I’ve never noticed a jump in the score at the point Joe Atari references, and I’ve listened to the soundtracks scores of times. (yes, that was a pun…) It’s possible there’s an edit point there where two different recordings of the score are spliced together…
And has it ever been established how long April had the ship? We know he was the first captain, but if we go with “Final Frontier” (Diane Carey), April may never have commanded her past the initial shakedowns.
In Kirk’s log entry at the end of TWOK, he mentions that they’re on their way to Ceti Alpha 5 to retrieve the Reliant crew. It’s likely that Starfleet dispatched another ship to this task and ordered Kirk home post haste to report on the top secret project that had gone awry.
#127
The refit would have to be much longer than 7.5 years. Where’s that number coming from? Or are you assuming TMP was only 7.5 years before TWOK? Every other source has always put it at least 12-14 years later.
I remember seeing this movie the weekend it opened. I had just graduated high school the previous weekend and a fellow classmate of mine and I decided to head down to Moscow Idaho to visit a girl he had met earlier in the year at a science fair in Missoula, Montana. We arrived in Moscow on Thursday and proceeded to hook up with this girl he was in love with. My friend and I were huge Trek fans & we knew that ST III was opening on Friday @ a theater in Pullman, WA and had planned on going with my friends girl and a friend of hers. Thursday night this chick dumps my friend and tells him she has a boyfriend. He is just sick & wants to immediately head back home. I convinced him to stay and we ended up getting drunk with some dudes staying at the same crappy motel. The next day we got up about 2 in the afternoon and found a place to eat and then headed over to Pullman. We had to stand in line for about an hour and the theater was packed full. I thought the movie was excellent. My friend thought so too. Helped him forget about being dumped. As far as I could tell the rest of the theater liked the movie as well. We headed back to the crappy motel in Moscow & crashed and got up the next morning and headed home. Star Trek III is my favorite movie and I will always remember that trip to Idaho.
#11. Daniel Broadway
“My God, Bones, what have I done?”
That scene was my favorite of the entire movie.
I remember watching it in the cinema (having never saw a trailer) and being completely shellshocked that they destroyed the Enterprise. I still think it’s a very under-rated film. One of the best
TSFS has some clasic moments for sure.
Stiles filing his nails (!)
“Yellow Alert! Captain to the Bridge!”
“How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock?”
“Sir! Someone is stealing the Enterprise!”
“I’m on my way.”
Captain Stiles readying the Excelsior for pursuit with Miguel Ferrer as his helmsman…”Full power available!” And James Horner’s score as the “great experiment” prepares to pursue Kirk, and then “Kirk! If you do this, etc.” And then she putters out as the E goes to warp. Great stuff.
The Spacedock was one of the worst ideas in Trek History!
1) It was ugly
2) It was too big for its function
3) And it just came out of the blue!
121 Sean
Thanks for making that point about Kruge being ‘one of the last clever Klingons.’ I’m not going to go on a hater rant. But there was a gradual devolution of Klingon culture into a scifi version of pirates walking around going “arrrr.”
Comparing Kor and other TOS Klingons to the TSFS/TNG Klingons, they’re just so much more wicked. The TOS Klingons engage in slavery, mass murder… and truly heinous acts like insulting the Enterprise.
Some worthy contributors to this site may not be old enough to appreciate that Klingons were always Soviet Russians. The images presented in TSFS of Kruge and his men were to my eyes then and now representative of the Soviet Union’s decay–the darkness, the the brutality, the cramped non-futuristic bridge.
I believe TVH was the last Cold War-era Trek film and the next time we see the Klingons in a significant way is TUC, where their characterization foreshadows the rise of the new Russian oligarchy. Take a look at TUC’s Klingon’s–beautiful uniforms, refined manners… they’re a bit dandy. Like the Russian nouveau riche, Chang and Gorkon are seemingly eager to prove their civility.
And that’s where the break occurred: because every representation of Klingons in TNG was a caricature of TSFS’s Klingons. I’m not here to piss on anyone’s affection for the DS9 Klingon mythology, but it’s nowhere near as complex as what it could have been had TSFS not been so damn influential.
I never saw the trailer before I saw the film. However…
I bought a black market script for TSFS at a convention before the film was released… and almost had a heart attack when I read the E blew up.
I thought to myself– nah! it’s just an early draft of the script. I’m sure they rewrote it. There’s no way they’d blow up the E, right? (After all- the script had Romulans as the villains–not Klingons)
So my big surprise wasn’t the E blowing up.. it was that they stuck to the script.so closely.
#114 “You and I are watching two different movies. ”
Nope, we saw the same movie, you’re just more forgiving! lol
It’s the same one that followed the tense beginning with a romp…yes, a romp, where Sulu is called tiny, where Bones is fruity as a nutcake, where Uhura tames a wet behind the ears adventure seeker and where the Excelsior putters out like an old Model T running out of gas….sound FX and all. It’s a romp, right smack dab in the middle of a very somber film filled with death and hopeful resurrection and it just doesn’t fit in with the tone of the rest of the movie. It’s a drastic shift in tone and feels horribly out of place and way too cute.
Trek 3 has some great moments, but hokey un-character-like dialog like “We’ve paid for the party with our dearest blood” and the theft of the Enterprise isn’t among them.
#131—That’s easy. It’s no assumption at all.
According to the dialogue in TMP, the V’Ger incident is 2.5 years after the end of the 5 year mission.
TMP:
“Sir, with all due respect, you haven’t logged a single star hour in 2.5 years. That, in my opinion, seriously jeopardizes this mission.”—Decker
“5 years out there dealing with unknowns…”—Kirk
“2.5 years as Chief Of Starfleet Operations may have made me a little stale, but I wouldn’t consider myself untried.”—Kirk
2.5+5=7.5
TWOK:
“There’s a man out there I haven’t seen in 15 years who’s trying to kill me.”—Kirk
TWOK (and therefore TSFS) is 15 years after “Space Seed”.
15-7.5=7.5
The “other sources” you mentioned are not canon, and contradictory to the dialogue in the films.
TMP is 7.5 years after the beginning of the 5 year mission. TWOK-TSFS is 15 years after “Space Seed” (a first season episode). It could be argued that the first season may not represent the first year of the 5 year mission, but if it is, then there is 7.5 years between TMP and TWOK.
It is all there in simple addition and subtraction, utilizing the actual information in the dialogue.
Little off topic but has anyone seen neros wife WOW she hot ! but looks young maybe kirk kills her and nero goes back to save her
My only thought her when I first saw TSFS was “They just blew up the Enterprise? How could they do that!? Hey the planet regenerated Spock, maybe the ship can come back too.” I was a kid. I saw the trailer in the theater and on TV before seeing the movie and I STILL didn’t put two and two together that it was the Enterprise they were showing and that indeed, it was going down in a ball of fire. Maybe I subconciously thought that they could repair it after it had half the saucer section blown away.
Have to agree with others here. This trailer…um…well…
…..it kinda sucks.
#129—”So, if Kirk oversees the 2263 refit, then by 2283 at the time of TSFS, the Big E is 20 years since Kirk took it over from Pike.”
If Morrow put so much stock into the refit as to consider it not even the same ship, then why would he discard the fact that it was refitted yet again (even more dramatically) only 7.5 years (when the refit was complete) before he made that comment?
By that logic, he should have said it was 7.5 years old…not 20.
#130—”…the “20 year” comment would fit with the age of the ship at the time Kirk took over, right? Perhaps that’s the refit that Morrow uses as a basis for this comment. ”
Why use ‘that’ refit as a starting point and not the later, more dramatic one?
I don’t buy it.
It was just a mistake. That’s it. Bennett and Nimoy went to sleep on that one.
For many years STIII was first TOS movie I’d pop in my VCR or DVD if I wanted a Trek fix. I really liked the movie. And still do.
But since it’s the one I’ve watched the most, there a few things that I can nitpick about it. In other words, after about the 30th time watching the movie I started thinking a little more about . . . .
1. Spock’s body is made of the same stuff as the planet. There’s no logical reason why he stops aging when he got off the planet. He should have fell apart, just like the planet.
2. Spock put his mind into McCoy before he went into the glass chamber in the engine room. Hence, the dialog of the death scene with Kirk and Spock shouldn’t be in revived Spock’s memory (The only way around this is to say that Spock’s meld was to prepare McCoy for his mind after he died).
3. Kirk steals the Enterprise to go get Spock’s dead body. The only problem is, from his perspective he shot the photon torpedo into the atmosphere of the planet with the expectation that it would burn up in the atmosphere. After all, David and Saavik are surprised to find out that the tube had soft landed. So when Sarek asks Kirk to go get Spock, Kirk’s response should have been, “I can’t. There is no body.”
4. The ship should have blown up from the engine room, not starting at the bridge. Furthermore, it should have just gone “BOOM!” and been done with it. I like the final scene of the Enterprise, to be sure, but it defies logic.
5. A few sloppy scenes / cuts:
There is no one at the controls of the Space Dock at night?
A big chuck of tree / earth erupts with a Klingon inside of it before the Klingons reach Saavik and David, followed immediately with Saavik saying in subtitles nonchalantly that it’s time for Spock’s pon far.
It’s still one of my favorite movies, to be sure, but you have to overlook some things from a logic perspective.
I don’t have a comment, I just want to know if Anthony got my e-mail with the Spock Pumpkin pics I sent?????
I seem to remember reading in one of Nimoy’s autobiographys that Paramount wanted to pay Kirsty Alley less money than in TWOK…so she split.
Mark Lenard steals the show again.
Kirk in the Genesis tape? All about money too…that way they wouldn’t have to pay Bibi Besch!
144 Schmoe
1. The planetary transformations and the aging of Spock are caused by the Genesis wave. Once Spock’s body is removed form the Genesis Wave [an energy field of some sort] the aging stops.
2. McCoy was just over Kirk’s shoulder watching Spock’s death scene and a mind-meld goes both ways. Once Spock’s katra is returned, it’s returned with the elements they shared while melded. I suppose we can debate whether a katra is like a back-up tape or a master recording of one’s soul, but once you add in the two-way street of a mind-meld, I believe this is explained within reasonable scifi limits. [I’d go with the back-up tape, since Spock’s soul is still present while talking to Kirk.
3. I don’t see a textual basis for the idea that Kirk expected the tube to burn up… it’s pure speculation. On the contrary, Kirk’s line makes it pretty clear that Kirk was turning death in to a fighting chance to live:
KIRK
Starship Enterprise departed for
Ceti Alpha Five to pick up the
crew of the USS Reliant. All is
well. And yet, I can’t help
wondering about the friend I
leave behind. there are always
possibilities, Spock said. And
if Genesis is indeed “life from
death,” I must return to this place
again.
4. That’s a reasonable point, but consider the circumstances of a self-destruct: the ship has been compromised and as a matter of security, the entire ship must be disintegrated. The anti-matter cooling vent leads directly to the saucer section and it’s equally reasonable that the bulk of the data storage and computers are in the saucer section, so the sequence wouldn’t leave the destruction of these elements to chance.
5. Are you seriously questioning Montgomery Scott’s ability to sabotage Federation technology?
144 – Some thoughts…
1. You could argue that Spock’s body isn’t made of the same stuff of the planet, as it existed before it landed on the planet, and therefore, it was the so called “genesis wave” which re-animated his body. His body aged rapidly, because, as david admitted, he mucked around with the genesis wave (I forget how) to make it work. Therefore, much like cooking something in a microwave oven, Spock stopped “cooking” when he was removed from the planet – and removed from the influence of the Genesis wave. It just so happened that our heroes got him off at just the right age that he was when he died!
2. I never viewed it as Spock “putting his mind” into McCoy – like making a digital copy or backup – which, as you suggest, would only have the information up to the moment of the transfer. I always looked at it more as opening up a conduit between the two, so that Spock’s katra could travel to McCoy upon the moment of death. HOWEVER, if we were to be truly literal and assume that, yes, Spock “backed up” his conscious mind into McCoy, you could suppose that because McCoy was awake when Spock and Kirk had their “goodbye/Ship out of Danger” moment, he was an observer, and since both minds were in McCoy’s head, both minds would have memory of that discussion. I think my head is going to explode.
3. I don’t think they ever expressly say that Kirk expected the photon tube coffin to burn up in the atmosphere. But you’re right, the “soft landing” line does seem to indicate that it was unexpected.
4. It doesn’t defy logic, if you assume that the destruction was the result of multiple charges placed over various places on the ship, as opposed to some sort of engine room explosion. That would be logical, as any time any real ship is scuttled, it usually is done so with explosive placed at various key points in the vessel. As for it starting on the bridge, we could make the assumption that if a Captain is going to blow up his ship, it’s probably because of a significant threat to it being taken over by hostile forces, so where better to start the destruction than at the command center – the bridge? That’s the first place you want destroyed so it can’t fall into enemy hands. So it possible that the auto destruct sequence sets off a chain of explosions that begin at the Bridge.
Just some possible explanations…
#140
The other sources I refer to are the Star Trek Chronology by the Okudas, as well as statements by Rodenberry and other writers as well as the films & shows themselves. I know if it isn’t on screen, it tends not to count. But their assumptions make sense, in some respects.
Your math still confuses me. If the line Decker threw out there is literally true, then TMP takes place 2.5 years after the final year of the original 5 year mission. From everything we understand, Space Seed takes place in the 2nd or 3rd year of the original 5 year mission (based on uniform changes from WNMHGB). Therefore, time elapsed from Space Seed to TMP = 5-6 years after TOS (assumed). If you assume Space Seed takes place in the first year of the mission, I guess I can see your number, though I’d still put it a 6.5, at best (given that the episode takes place late in the season).
Voyager established that the original 5 year mission ended in 2270 (I’m not a big fan of that show, but it did clearly establish it), and we know this film takes place at least 13 years later, given the age of the Romulan Ale (and most likely takes place later, otherwise the discussion between Kirk & McCoy about vintage would make no sense).
If we assume this film takes place in 2272 (given the date for the end of the 5 year mission and Decker’s line), then TWOK takes place at least 10 – 11 years later (the Romulan Ale being 2283). More likely 12-13 years later, so that the age of the ale makes sense.
In that context, it seems like Kahn was making a rough estimate when he said ‘15 years’. Of course, I didn’t see any clocks on the Botany Bay, and a sundial wouldn’t have been of much use after Ceti Alpha VI exploded, so maybe he really was guesstimating! :)
147 – You beat me to it! Damn my slow typing! ;)
For me the most powerful exchange in this film is Kirk’s brief discussion with Sarek when they bring Spock back to Vulcan.
“Kirk, what you have done–”
“What I did, I had to do.”
“At what cost… your ship, your son.”
“If I hadn’t tried, the cost would have been my soul.”
This film was a nice flip on the themes of Trek II and Spock’s death. Logic and mathematics dictated Spock’s sacrifice, while compassion and friendship drove Kirk’s. Great stuff there!
#144 & 148
If I remember, the novelization addressed this issue. The idea was there was a ‘Destruct Zero’ and a ‘Destruct One’ option. Destruct Zero ejected the warp core and destroyed charges place throughout the ship when it was too close to a planetary body or other object for a full matter/antimatter reaction/explosion.
Frankly the weak villain killed ST III for me. Kruge seemed to come off as a buffoon instead of a serious threat. Part of that was Christopher Lloyd unable to disappear into the role and part was the writing. Imagine Christopher Plumber in this role and we would have seen a much stronger villain who could stand up to Kirk.
The line “you’ll never sit in the captains chair again.” ALWAYS gets me. Kirk, who had lost the Enterprise and then got it back, was willing to sacrifice it out of friendship. (Watch TMP scene where Kirk and Scotty shuttle over to the Enterprise to understand just how much he loved that ship/command)
A lot of people are referencing the “You’ll never sit in the Captain’s chair again” line. I always loved the fact that it was puncuated by Kirk doing EXACTLY that. He sits in the chair right after Capt. Stiles threatens him!
:-)
#153
“Kruge seemed to come off as a buffoon instead of a serious threat. Part of that was Christopher Lloyd unable to disappear into the role and part was the writing.”
omg, this is so true. Really, honestly, I have always thought the same exact thing, Frank. 110% acurate right there
#139
The movie needed the humor though. Otherwise, it could have been an incredibly bleak film. And I disagree about the dialogue – this movie contains some of Trek’s best lines.
Never picked up on that before, Shat Fan – I’ll have to catch that next viewing
Holy, that trailer is awesome. In Nemesis, they talked about “a generation’s final voyage” and it made me so sad. I so love TNG and to think this might be their last adventure was heartbreaking. What’s worse is that it did turn out to be their last. And it still hurts.
But seeing this trailer, “the final voyage of the starship Enterprise” brings up that same feeling of loss. But what makes it feel so wonderful is that I know it was only a tease. I know they still had hundreds of adventures to go…
I heard Nimoy et al. were not pleased with the choice to show the enterprise’s destruction … but I actually like it, having seen it. How could you not go to see that movie?
#96
Great moments, indeed.
I think my all time favorite will always be:
Spock: My father says that you have been my friend. You came back for me.
James T. Kirk: You would have done the same for me.
Spock: Why would you do this?
James T. Kirk: Because sometimes the needs of the one… outweigh the needs of the many.
Spock: (Spock begins to remember) I have been and ever shall be your friend.
James T. Kirk: Yes. Yes, Spock.
Spock: The ship …. out of danger?
James T. Kirk: You saved the ship. You saved us all. Don’t you remember?
Spock: Jim …. your name is Jim.
James T. Kirk: Yes.
You just can’t beat these lines. They don’t pale, no matter how often you listen to them.
#123
Exactly.
What’s funny is that ST3 exists because a test audience didn’t react well to Spock’s death in TWOK.
So they went back and did the “Remember!” scene to pave the way for ST3. Thus was borne the idea of the Katra. Well done, but a decision based solely on market research.
My guess is the marketing guys used the destruction of the Enterprise as a way of making sure more butts were in the seats. 3rd movies often drop off at the box office. Artistic integrity was thrown out for door for the bottom line. Typical. I think they went to that well for almost very movie. The FINAL Frontier. ST:VI was billed as the last voyage of the crew of the Enterprise. I remember seeing James Doohan on Entertainment Tonight saying it was all a ploy. Unfortunately it didn’t do enough box office so Paramount went the route of TNG…so it turned out to be the swan song after all. And what was nemesis? “The beginning of the final journey of the starship Enterprise?” I don’t think anyone ever really thought it would be the last TNG movie when they came up with that tag line…oops.
#159
See, I knew you and I agreed on something! :)
I’m with you – that last exchange is great. And certainly not dull.
116. Barrydancer… “Reliant wasn’t lost with all hands. I just watched TWOK again the otehr day and if memory serves Checkov says that Khan abandoned her crew on Ceti Alpha 5…which makes one wonder what happens to them, because we never see Enterprise returning to pick them up.”
Kirk’s Captain’s Log at the end of TWOK states that the Enterprise is departing for Ceti Alpha V to pick up the crew of the Reliant.
#149—”The other sources I refer to are the Star Trek Chronology by the Okudas, as well as statements by Rodenberry and other writers as well as the films & shows themselves. I know if it isn’t on screen, it tends not to count…”
Particularly when it contradicts the actual dialogue.
“If we assume this film takes place in 2272 (given the date for the end of the 5 year mission and Decker’s line), then TWOK takes place at least 10 – 11 years later (the Romulan Ale being 2283). More likely 12-13 years later, so that the age of the ale makes sense.”
Here is why I choose to ignore the inherent contradiction in the dating of the Romulan Ale vintage…
Why would a bottle of Romulan Ale be labeled with a vintage measured in Earth years? For all we know, 2283 in Romulan terms could mean 1950 in Solar terms. It isn’t solid enough (and is in fact heavily flawed), IMO, to outweigh the ‘actual’ discussion of the passage of time in TMP and TWOK.
These are the facts.
VOY “Q2″ (I know…I know) once and for all places the 5 year mission as ending in 2270 (assuming it is an actual 5 years, and not an estimate).
TMP establishes (twice) that the V’Ger incident is 2.5 years from the end of the 5 year mission, and therefore somewhere between 2272-2273.
TWOK establishes (twice) that the battle in the Mutara Nebula is 15 years after “Space Seed”.
It is true that you cannot canonically and indisputably place the events of “Space Seed” any more accurately than between the years of 2265-2270, since it is never made clear onscreen how far into the 5 year mission it is.
We know this, however. “The Deadly Years” is a second season episode. Sulu says that he has served with Kirk for two years (and he is present in the 2nd pilot episode). Given that, I think it is reasonable to place first season episodes within the first year. Agreed?
So if “Space Seed” takes place between 2265-2266 (year one), then TWOK can take place no later than 2281, and no earlier than 2280 (which is about 7.5 years after TMP).
Memory Alpha places “Space Seed” at 2267. I could accept that as a good estimate, but there is nothing canon to support that.
I thought Star Trek 3 was a great film. Like all good Star Trek it was filled with great Star Trek moments.
My only problem with it was the HUGE plot hole…
When Sarek told Kirk that he “must bring them both to vulcan” He meant McCoy and Spock’s spirit inside of him.
None of them knew Spock’s body was alive again. The last time they saw Spock he was being fired in a photon tube into the Genesis planet (presumably to burn up in the atmosphere)
So why go back to Genesis in the first place?
Why not just hire a ship and take McCoy to Vulcan to have Spock’s catra released?
I think the Captain of the Grissom informed Starfleet that Spock’s tube was found, but why(from Kirk’s perspective) bring the dead body to Vulcan?
What’s the point?
: )
I think they should have shown Kirk and company discussing that they heard Spock’s body was found with a hint of hope that something may have happened to the body because it should have burned up in the atmosphere, which would(sort of) explain the reason for sacrificing everything to go to Genesis in the first place.
Thanks for letting me rant.
: )
136
No it didn’t come out of the blue.
It was built on the ground and launched into space like the Enterprise (hehe.)
#163: I stand corrected. I should pay closer attention. :)
It strikes me that, if ST11 is anywhere near as good as TSFS, I’ll be extremely happy.
There are lots of crappy expensive profitable films. Look at IJ4. A sh*t script with a long history, and a billion in revenue. Highly paid idiots writing crap for Joe the Plumber and Joe Six-pack. Winner!
TWOK, TSFS and TVH represent the highpoint of Trek as a film franchise.
From Bob Orci’s personal input to this site, I would say that we’re in good hands. He would dis a crap script just as seriously as we would. Even his own.
I just hope that NewTrek is not dumbed down from market research or corporate idiocy.
thanks dalek, added that
I agree with #1. Star Trek III is SO underrated.
#164
Normally I find myself in perfect agreement with you, but I don’t quite understand your reasoning on this one. And in a thread where I found myself in agreement with Iowagirl – what the devil is going on around here! ;)
We know from the opening sequence that the film takes place in the late 23rd Century. Given that context, it only makes sense that Kirk’s reference to the vintage of the ale should be viewed through that prism. It makes far more sense – to me – that he would be speaking about it in Earth years, rather than Romulan years (something he’d likely have no idea about).
Or, think of it this way – since Romulan Ale is illegal in the Federation, wouldn’t it be more likely that the third-party vendor McCoy got his bottle from would label the contents in English (Federation Standard, whatever they call it), for benefit of who he’s selling it to? It would be a bit like buying a Chinese beverage and saying ‘Oooh, the Year of the Rat’. That only means something if you are familiar with the Chinese calendar. McCoy wasn’t even an expert on Klingon anatomy (and not even fully versed in Vulcan anatomy, based on Journey To Babel), so do we really believe Kirk is intimately familiar with the Romulan datekeeping system? Enough to translate it into Sol years in his head and remark on the vintage? That seems far less likely, especially given the ‘mysterious’ nature of Romulan society at the time (and even 100 years later, in The Defector).
It seems far simpler and more sensible that he’d be speaking in Earth years, and that the writers simply hadn’t worked out yet precisely how much time had passed between the films & show. To excuse Kahn’s line about 15 years (and Kirk’s) one could easily reason that they were speaking in general terms, or rounding it off. That makes a lot more sense to me than Kirk discussing a drink in Romulan years.
How come they never actually do any exploring in ANY of the Star Trek movies? I’ve always found that to be rather odd.
164
Agreed why would a bottle of Romulan ale that was SMUGGLED across the border have a Terran date? Something that was legitimately imported I could see but smuggled?
160:
In Nimoy’s second book “I Am Spock”, he recounts how the “Remember” scene was developed. As they were getting ready to shoot the death scene, Nimoy started feeling twinges of “Am I making the right decision?” worries. He and Harve Bennett and Nicolas Meyer all knocked heads together on a solution (and Bennett has addressed this in interviews as being an “escape hatch” in case they needed to bring Spock back somehow). That’s how the scene came to be.
I think the question of how Spock could remember things that happened after the mind-meld could be explained by the meld serving to establish a channel from Spock to McCoy, so that AT THE TIME OF DEATH, Spock’s katra could make the transition to McCoy.
Just one possibility among many.
159 Iowagirl, Thanks for that, above. Those lines still raise goosebumps. Shatner’s acting in that scene is soulful and sweet.
173 Purolator, I’m right there with you.
TMP is new life. [VGer]
TWOK is new life. [Genesis]
TSFS is new life. [Spock]
TVH is new civilizations. [Humpbacks]
TFF is where no man has gone before. ["God"]
TUC is arguably WNMHGB. [peace with the Klingons]
… but there’s really never been a movie that’s about exploration and the crew making first contact. TVH is a pretty weak excuse for a ‘new civilizations’ episode.
I’d love to see JJ&KO give us a straight up “new life and new civilizations” installment, with the crew duking it out with clever, smooth-forehead Klingons.
Thank you for those people who responded to my first point about possible “plot holes” with the movie.
In regards to the reanimated Spock: The Genesis wave takes matter and reorganizes it. David used Protomatter, which gunks up the new matter, so to speak. So the same Protomatter that gunked up the reorganized planet should have gunked up the reorganized Spock.
Further proof that Spock is remade with Protomatter is that he screams and ages right along with the same matter that the planet is made from. It’s because they are made of the same stuff. Getting off the planet doesn’t change a thing.
If it were the case of some wave that was causing him to age, then David and Saavik who were exposed on the planet would have been aging as well!
In regards to Spock’s tube soft landing, David and Saavik did seem surprised that this had happened, as the gravitational fields were in flux. And even if Kirk didn’t intend for the tube burn up, as a projectile it was more likely to crash into an ocean, a tree, the side of a mountain, etc. Not a lot of hope there for an intact body to be found.
In regards to blowing up your own ship . . . One can go back to the first movie when Scotty says that blowing up the ship would take out Vger with it. Because of the merging off all the matter and antimatter.
Hey don’t give me wrong, I love this movie. But some of the science in this movie was a little shaky, that’ all I’m sayin’.
Sorry for a couple typo’s in my above post, I had kids talking in the background.
The only thing I would add is that you don’t need charges around the ship in order to blow it up, you just drop the containment in the warp core. Which is in the engine room.
And think about it for a minute . . . . Whenever a ship is destroyed in battle, the matter and anti-matter in the the engine room are going to mix and go BOOM! So depending on the size of the supply of the matter and antimatter, any ship that is destroyed in battle or be self destructing could very well be a huge explosion. Unless they have some sci-fi explanation that the anti-matter is somehow dissipated before it can create a huge explosion.
Great film-really glad the guys at Paramount hired Marc Okrand to create the Klingon language for the film and really glad that Nimoy was overruled and the Klingons kept their ridges.
Can’t wait for the Krudge/Maltz action figure 2 pack to come out.
Really a great film to expand the Klingons.
Oh, and I started skimming after a while, but Kristie Allie (sp?) asked for more $ to be in later films and was turned down. She wanted more than they were paying Shatner.
I think the whole Pon Far scene was nicely done. Just enough to let real fans know what was going on without being explecit.
#178
Joe again – and keep in mind this isn’t canon because it wasn’t on screen – I remember reading the explanation that if the ship was too near a planetary body to safely allow an uncontrolled matter/antimatter reaction, the core would be ejected and specially-placed charges would be detonated to ensure the ship was useless to any enemy force.
Just imagine how much more impactful TUC would have been were it Saavik that betrayed Spock. Too bad Rodenberry won that argument. Meyer clearly knew what he was talking about.
I miss the refit movie Enterprise. She was a thing of beauty on the big screen.
Schmoe, take a look at the novelization-based answer to your points above. It makes a lot of sense and provided an answer to your TMP/Scotty line above. And I still think there are more and less important parts of the ship to destroy–transporter banks, computers, data storage, etc. In any event, it’s logical that the Warp Core was safely in orbit of Genesis when Kirk beamed up to the Bird of Prey.
The protomatter thing is a good point, hadn’t thought of that. But at best, protomatter was a small part of the Genesis device. It would have had an effect on the wave itself. We have to assume that the wave was still strong enough to affect Spock’s body, but not David & Saavik, who showed up some time later.
#5 – totally agree with you, it was truly the best of times. :)
I totally loved the British trailer! Especially that it (duh) didn’t reveal the destruction of the Enterprise.
177. Joe Schmoe –
“Hey don’t give me wrong, I love this movie. But some of the science in this movie was a little shaky, that’ all I’m sayin’.”
TMP had some shaky science too. That notion of the Enterprise’s autodestruct taking down V’Ger didn’t really add up — especially with both being in earth orbit at the time (what the hell would that’ve done to the planet?!). Plus V’Ger was *big*. In the theatrical release V’Ger was described as being eighty-two AUs in diameter (an AU, or Astrological Unit, is the distance from the earth to the sun — 82 AUs would be ridiculously massive, the size of several dozen solar systems). Later versions chopped this down to a mere two AUs (still friggin’ gigantical) — but disapating rapidly as we were told.
‘Couse that measurement was for the cloud portion of V’Ger, not the ship itself. Still…
Still loving the delightful absence of the secrecy fetish in the trailer, now increasingly amused by the responses of the secrecy fetishists here on the board :)
A movie is either good or it isn’t. No “spoiler” has the power to change that.
I will never understand why the Excelsior sputters and chokes like a car…
Catch the deleted sequence on Vulcan at the base of the stairs to Mt. Seleya? I’ve seen photos, but never in a trailer…
185
In regards to TMP, it is the cloud — and not Vejur proper — which is originally 82 AUs in diameter and later 2 AUs wide. Based on the E’s flyover, I got the sense that Vejur proper was maybe 50 miles in diameter and a couple hundred long at most. Still gi-normous but destroyable by a massive AM-M explosion.
As for doing the self-destruct in Earth orbit, it was a better alternative than letting Vejur wipe out every human as it was planning to do. Maybe only slightly better, but still better.
#189
It wasn’t a deleted scene, just different in the original. The Director’s Cut makes the statues more impressive, and gets rid of those excess moons that weren’t there in Star Trek III.
After reading about the first 70 or so blogs, I felt compelled to stop and write this before I lost my train of thought. The fact that the scene of the Enterprise destruction appears in the final trailer should not come as a surprise to most people who were were alive and cognizant back in 1984. Harve Bennett’s spec script for the sequel “Return to Genesis” was shortly penned after ST2, and leaked…a copy of which I have :) It was leaked that the Enterprise was destroyed but that the resulting explosion caused a black hole. Anybody remember that? Looking at the blogs so far, no.
Another interesting bit of trivia is that ILM had already done an Enterprise destruction shot that looked too much like the climax of Return of the Jedi. Now, why this was not included in the extras and any cut scenes or alternate takes from this movie in the special edition DVD is an odd thing. Hopefully, when the BlueRay version comes out, this will be corrected.
My favorite TSFS trailer was the one (final final one) they tacked on to the 70mm prints of that other summer 1984 blockbuster called Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Now that was a cinematic experience, in itself, because it had the benefit of being not only in glorious widescreen 70mm, but had the finished effects sound and visual. I remember this guy in front of me whoooping and hollering as the Enterprise warped by almost as loud as the sound effect! It also had a scene at the end of Kirk saying to Kruge, “if we don’t help each other, we’ll die HERE.” Then it ended with the narrator mentioning some along the lines of..”and the last voyage of the Starship Enterprise.” People were mad thinking it was the crew were all going to die but they misheard the words..it was the SHIP’s last voyage.
I’ve never been one to agree with the dumb movie critic who started the saying that the even numbered Treks are the best and the odd ones are the worst. Thats absolutely false. I’m thinking now of the scene where Kirk breaks down as he finds out his son was brutally murdered. I’ve never seen Shatner give such a deep performance..crying even..or since. And the way Nimoy frames the subsequent shots of the cast..all teary eyed and in equal shock..was cathartic for me. What made me not like TWOK so much was him NOT tearing up at the loss of his friend. It was plain wrong. Shame on whomever decided not to include a Kirk crying at the end of II.
The supporting cast here and in TVH are better utilized than in either II or TMP. Uhura does more than hail frequencies, Scotty has some great lines and Sulu gets a little action, though he deserved more on screen fighting time.
The 70mm presentation I saw made the Genesis scenes so realistic with the burning fires and wind machine effects. It felt almost like you were there..my favorite shots were the point of view shot when Kirk sees the sun amidst the volcano eruptions and fire, and of course, when Kirk kicks Kruge into the hellish muck. On tv today, it looks so cheap. Then, of course, is the destruction of the E, herself. After David’s dramatic death, the scenes of the E’s melting saucer section skin..like metallic flesh to the BIG BOOM of the saucer and subsequent streak across the Genesis sky was an brilliantly done sequence. Kirk’s words after were so poignant and dramatic..”My God, what have I done..” I was thinking the same myself but in the context of what just went on, the sacrifice had to be made.
Of the Bennett produced films, this is probably my favorite dramatic Trek. And what a Trek it is.
#191
Er, scratch that. I got mixed up and thought we were talking about TMP. I need some sleep. Haha.
#192
This is another one of those situations where I feel like I must be watching a different movie. Kirk DOES tear up during his eulogy for Spock in TWOK. And his breakdown in the engine room is just as powerful as the one for David in TSFS. It’s a different reaction, in that in TWOK he’s in shock, totally stunned by what’s happened. In TSFS, the impact is instantaneous, as I think the weight of the entire situation hits him all at once (not only is his son dead, but Spock & Saavik are in danger of being killed, alongside his entire crew). It’s different, but I think equally powerful.
192 – Awesome entry. And you’re completely right–TSFS’s effects were much, much better in 70mm than on the TV screen, where Genesis looks very soundstagey.
I don’t recall…. but was Shatner in that film?
194
From my recollection, Kirk doesn’t shed a teardrop or emotionally react with the same resonance as in the death of David. In TWOK, Spock is going down talking about friendship, finally dies and all Kirk says is “noooo.” No tears. Next shot is Kirk and Spock facing opposite each other separated by that glass with a look of exhaustion and exasperation. No tears.
Now if it were me and if it were my best friend or brother dying, believe me, I’d be crying the minute I saw Spock in the matter-anti-matter reaction room. Its not just the horrific sight of his green blooded crisped skin, but for the loss, itself.
In the eulogy, Kirk has his closeup in glorious 70mm on that 50 ft movie screen..he pauses and stumbles on the word, human, describing Spock’s soul. The words are filled with irony and sadness but, again, I didn’t see a teardrop fall down Kirk’s cheek. Perhaps, the direction should have had his eyes slowly well up with tears and then the tear drop fall as he stumbled on the word human. I would have been satisfied with that.
On the other hand and from a military standpoint, to see your CO breakdown would be a sign of weakness would it not?
I could go further..heck, I will..they further ruined the solemnity of the moment by Scotty playing those bagpipes. Now don’t get me wrong. Its a great character moment but he starts off playing off key. Of the many times I’ve seen this movie in its original theatrical release, there were many in the audience that either chuckled or laughed out loud ruining the moment for the rest of us..and me. The subsequent orchestral strains of Amazing Grace is fine though.
Anyway, given the above mentioned scene deconstruction of Shatner’s performance, I still feel he went to some depth to convey a sense of raw emotion…anger..”you Klingon bastards..you KILLED MY SON!”…the accidental stumble..and the already mentioned reaction shots of the crew, that resonate in my mind. Come to think of it, they should have replayed a short snippet of this scene in ST6 when Kirk is recording his log entry. The scene would remind fans and bring new moviegoers up to speed as to why Kirk felt the way he did about the Klingons.
My wife never was in never into Star Trek growing up. I had her watch II, III and IV and VI all on a Saturday and now she watches anything Trek.
Those four movies with plot points that carry from one to another were perfect.
Next Generation should have been as good after First Contact but they squandered that chance…
# 177
We actually don’t know, how the genesis wave works with Protomatter. It ages fast and fall apart within the genesis wave, outside of the wave, it could hold out for another 500 years, before it falls apart. Enough for Spock to life and aging normally for a half-vulcan. Unalterd matter like Saavik, David or the Klingons might not be effected by the genesis wave, maybe as planed from the Marcus’ gang (what would happen with all the colonists on genesis-created worlds?)
About the age of the Enterprise:
5 year mission = 2265 – 2270. TMP = 2273 (if we guess, that the five-year-mission not ended in the first half of the year 2270). Spock serves under Pike for 11 years, but the records of “Menagerie” are 13 years old. So, that suggests that “Menagerie” takes place 13 years after the first year of Spock’s service under Pike and very likley the second year under Kirk, in fact the second year of the 5-year-mission = 2266. Space Seed takes place after Menagerie, in 2266 too. But it could also be possible, that it’s 2267 already, nearly at the end of the second year of mission (based on the possibility, that the 5-year-mission started not in January but in September, when the tv show started. The first year would include 2265/2266, the second year 2266/2267, the third year 2267/2268, the fourth year 2268/2269 and the fifth year 2269/2270). TWOK takes place 15 years after Space Seed. Not only Khan gives us this date, Kirk also does. Khan could be possible wrong, because of the chaos on Ceti-Alpha-5, but Kirk surley not. TWOK = 2282. Compares to the year 1982, when the movie was made. The date on the Romulan Ale must be wrong, as Closettrekker already sayed in one of the upper posts. The events of TSFS would also taking place in 2282. A 20 year old Enterprise would have been build in 2262 then, but there are 11 Pike years before 2265. So, Morrow IS wrong, what leaves this possibilities:
A: The Enterprise of Kirk is not the one of Pike. Perhaps there was an incident between 2260 and 2262 that caused the destruction of Pike’s Enterprise and they build another one and gave her the name and number of Pike’s one (what’s very unlikley, because Kirk’s Enterprise would already wear an A behind 1701 then).
B: Morrow simply don’t care. His statements makes clear, that he doesn’t care much for the fate of the Enterprise. She should be scrapped instead of preserved as a museum ship. In the 23rd century this should be not a matter of money anymore like in the 21st century. And so it doesn’t interest him how old the good old Enterprise really is. 20 year, 30 year, 40 years. She’s old and that’s enough for him to places her out of commission. Besides that, Morrow seems to be a man, that doesn’t care for many things. Nor for the Enterprise, nor for some vulcan mystics. As supreme commander of Starfleet, he can’t know the comission dates or the ages of all his starships and his “I don’t care/understand”-politics doesn’t allow him to name Kirk the correct age of the Enterprise.
#172
- And in a thread where I found myself in agreement with Iowagirl – what the devil is going on around here! ;) -
Ah, the mistery and magic of Star Trek…Don’t try to explain it, sean, just enjoy it! ;)
This episode seems to be very much inspired by the famous Blake’s 7 episode, “Terminal}, which is ironic as Blake’s7 is famously the anti-Trek.
However, consider this:
1. Both feature artifically created planets;
2. Both planets have accelerated evolution;
3. The heroes hijack their own ship to hunt for a missing friend
4. The heroes’ iconic spacecraft is boarded by the enemy;
5. The heroes’ iconic spacecraft is destroyed;
6. Both involve the search for a missing companion on the planet;
7. Both end with the heroes marooned but with the option of taking the enemy’s inferior spacecraft.
“Terminal” went to air four years before ST3 was released so it must have been on the minds of the writers during that time.
#89
If I remember correctly, Horner was asked to do a soundtrack last minute so he used much of Wrath of Kahn soundtrack with slight changes. They are both very similar without the “Kahn” part of the soundtrack. Love both soundtracks.
This was a great movie, Nimoy’s debut as a director, right?
The inclusion of the bagpipes was Bennett’s idea, if I recall. He’d been to a funeral of someone who’d served in the military, and the bagpipes were part of the service. So Bennett included it with Scotty offering the honors.
I also recall James Horner had said at one point that he didn’t want to continue “Amazing Grace” outside the ship, as he always thought it brought religion into “Star Trek” – and religion didn’t belong there, or some nonsense like that.
I always thought it was a nice touch.
#172—-”We know from the opening sequence that the film takes place in the late 23rd Century. ”
Actually, the opening sequence simply tells us “In the 23rd Century…”
If I am not mistaken, the notion that it was the “late” 23rd Century is not actually canonically established until TVH.
“It makes far more sense – to me – that he would be speaking about it in Earth years, rather than Romulan years (something he’d likely have no idea about).”
He certainly wouldn’t have any idea about how time is measured in Romulan terms. That is not what I am suggesting.
The problem is, he is actually reading a label…A label on an illegal alien beverage (which would have to be smuggled into the UFP) which mysteriously and inexplicably measures its vintage in terms of Solar years. What I am saying is that a bottle of Romulan Ale might have a label on it, but it would most certainly ‘not’ have an Earth year vintage. I just look at this as something which was not particularly well thought out and should be ignored in favor of the dialogue which actually discusses the passage of time in TMP and TWOK. But that is my own opinion.
You suggested that in order for it to ‘make sense’, TWOK would need to be chronologically placed a while after 2283. I submit that it already doesn’t make sense, and choose to ignore the whole Romulan Ale vintage gaffe altogether.
If TWOK were to take place in 2283, that puts “Space Seed” in 2268 (the 3rd year of the 5 year mission). That would contradict (IMO) “The Deadly Years”, an episode a season after “Space Seed”, in which Sulu claims to have served with Kirk for 2 years. Sulu was present in “WNMHGB”, so conventional wisdom is that he was there in the beginning, no?
“Space Seed” has to take place within the 1st year of the 5 year mission, which we have somewhat established is 2265-2266. That puts TWOK in the 2280-2281 range.
If the 5 year mission ends in 2270, then TMP must take place 2272-2273 (2.5 years later).
By my math, there is somewhere between 7-9 years passed between TMP and TWOK.
Prior to “Q2″, I would have said that TWOK took place in 2282 (300 years after its debut), and that “Space Seed” took place in 2267 (300 years after its first airing).
However, that was dependant upon the 5 year mission ending in 2271, not 2270.
VOY and the Bermanverse seem to have screwed that up…oh well.
#199, 204
You’re both right, of course, that writers simply screwed up the dates. I guess it just depends on our own personal points of view as to which interpretation we’re willing to accept. Since Kirk pointedly makes reference to that date on the bottle of ale – and since there’s no dialogue that suggests to me he’s speaking in anything other than Earth years – I’m more comfortable with the notion that Kirk & Kahn were simply rounding off.
Some like to place the 4th & 5th year of the original 5 year mission as TAS. Personally, the only TAS episode I consider worth its weight is ‘Yesteryear’, so I go with the other line of thought that the first season of TOS is essentially the 2nd or early 3rd year of the 5 year mission. Sure, there’s a certain leap required since it isn’t specifically mentioned in dialogue, but it does mesh better with the dates mentioned in TWOK (if Space Seed took place in 2267-2268). Then it could be between 16-17 years, which wouldn’t be unreasonably close to 15. People do frequently refer to events happening a certain number of years ago, when the actual number could be a few years off. Plus, stardates in the first season (actually, all 3 seasons) tended to go backward and forward without rhyme or reason, so who is to say when that episode actually takes place, chronologically. I always keep in mind that ‘The Paradise Syndrome’ covers at least 2-3 months, so it’s hard to say at times how much time passes between episodes.
Anyway, that’s just me. I’m sure we all have our little justifications for our personal ‘fanon’. None of it holds up very well under intense scrutiny anyway. I still have fun with it! :)
#205—I don’t think there is any right or wrong. Any of these “interpretations” can be justified.
The only thing which cannot be reasoned, IMO, is Morrow’s assertion that the Enterprise is 20 years old during the events of TSFS (which is what started this discussion in the first place, I think).
As you are already aware, I share your opinion about TAS. “Yesteryear” is difficult to ignore since it is repeatedly referenced in live action Trek (and I like it), but I think the rest of it remains non-canon, and in the same category as the novels, comics, and reference books.
#206
You’re definitely right there. Morrow’s line is just nonsense. Even *if* you could somehow stretch that the Enerprise’s last major refit was 20 years before (and I don’t see how that works under any interpretation), he would know the ship was older. It could have been fixed with a simple modification to 40, which would seem more reasonable, but somebody fell asleep at the continuity machine on that one. I guess we could just say Morrow is ignorant, or just flatly mistated the facts. He wouldn’t be the first ‘bad’ admiral we’ve seen in Trek! Nor the last. Haha.
I drove 20 miles to be part of the first showing of this film. It was and still is a rousing adventure..I know of no modern films that generated as much anticipation that the TREK films did. I look forward to the new Star Trek film and hope that it brings back some of that enjoyment in the cinema experience. There are very few newer films I’d stand in line for hours just to see.
my post has gone! can anyone see it?
greg
UK
# 207:
Morrow IS a bad admiral. He nearly don’t care for anything, not even for the rituals and mystics of one of the federation most important members: The Vulcans. He not only obvious know not the right age of the Enterprise, he don’t allow Kirk to return to Genesis – for no real reason. Why should he (or how could he) think Cpt. Esteban will handle that matter with his tiny ship better than Admiral Kirk with the Enterprise or the even the brand new Excelsior under his command? The next, he sends spies from the security service after McCoy (Isn’t that a bit KGB-style?). Or was it realy luck, that there was one agent in exactly the same bar as McCoy? Morrow was so inapt, that he placed this joke of a captain (Styles) on the centerseat aboard the brand new Excelsior. IMO, Morrow is responsible for all the disasters in TSFS. He should have been fired right after (and perhaps he was. There was no Morrow in the hearing of TVH).
#197
Well, I’m not sure who these people are that were so calloused as to laugh during that scene. Scotty missed a note – who cares? That’s hardly detrimental to the scene’s emotional impact in any significant way. He’s a Scot, and he’s playing in tribute to his fallen commander. Doesn’t seem in the least bit inappropriate to me. Whenever those bagpipes start to play, I find myself moved in a very real way, even all these years later.
And again, I’d argue that the emotional impact of TWOK is why Kirk breaks down more significantly in TSFS. He’s clearly intensely effected in TWOK – he stumbles on the word human, finding himself choked up. He’s still tormented later when we see David visit him in his quarters. And at the beginning of TSFS, he states in his log entry that ‘the death of Spock is like an open wound’. After he enters the turbolift, he very nearly collapses from the weight if it all. Just because he doesn’t openly weep in front of his crew doesn’t mean he isn’t devastated. He clearly feels defeated, almost hollow after he falls to the engine room floor after Spock’s death. Crying wouldn’t have given any greater depth to the loss he’s clearly feeling at that moment.
Consider this – by the time Kruge has David executed in TSFS, Kirk has lost his best friend, risked his command and finds himself and his closest friends in danger of being killed by Klingons. Add to that the sensless murder of his son by Kruge, and his more outward reaction is totally understandable. He’s not just crying for David, but for all the loss he’s been forced to endure. He’s moved into a different stage of grieving. Just because he expresses the grief differently doesn’t mean the grief is of a greater or lesser value than the other.
“There was also an alternative trailer in the UK which doesn’t give away the destruction of the Enterprise.”
I dunno. I think the shot of the Enterprise in flames, falling toward the planet and then streaking across the sky in a ball of fire was a pretty big giveaway.
# 58
What does “grok” mean any way?
where does it come from?
i remember seeing it in pictures from the 60’s “I grok Spock” but never worked out what it meant?
Can someone please tell me?
Oh and nice trailer for a nice film- but ST:III does have a bit of middle child syndrome…
I saw all the Real Trek (TOS) movies in the theaters on opening night. Was driving cross country with some buddies in 1984 (college road trip!), and caught TSFS in San Diego.
Back in the eighties, we would go see movies many times in the theaters. Don’t think people do as much of that today.
At our fifth or sixth viewing, at the end of the film, during the ceremony on Vulcan, a gong is struck repeatedly. One of my buddies yells out “Divert all power to the Chinese Vulcan!!”. The whole theater laughed, since we all had seen the movie many times already.