ST09 Trailer Countdown: Taking A Look ST: Generations’ Trailer November 9, 2008
by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Feature Films (TMP-NEM) , trackback
Well we have our first spy leak about the new Star Trek trailer, but we still must wait until next Friday to see for ourselves. Until then we count down the days with our retrospective of past theatrical trailers, and today we look to the first TNG film, Star Trek Generations from 1994.
The torch of adventure is about to be passed
Theatrical trailer for Star Trek: Generations.
Commentary:
Although the trailer does contain some mysteries like ‘why is Data laughing?’ it continues the tradition of the previous trailers and gives away much of the movie, including showing the Enterprise D being destroyed. Pushing the mad scientist angle of Soren and his Nexus (with a sprinkling of evil Klingons), the trailer portrays Generations as a another action romp in the Trek series. The trailer also makes it seem like there is going to be a great deal of tension between Kirk and Picard, although in the actual film they mostly make breakfast together. "Dillweed" cries Kirk! All in all, a pretty good trailer that entices the audience to want to watch the film.
Teaser: Two generations will meet…
The earlier teaser trailer has a surprising amount of footage from the film and even introduced the notion of the ‘nexus.’
The DVD features no trailers or commercials. In fact, the release of the DVD was delayed to correct the text on the packaging which had promised the inclusion of trailers.
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Comments»
“It was fun.”
The problem with Generations are many and varied… but the basic one that always bothered me was… this wasn’t Kirk’s “paradise” fantasy… this wasn’t what he would spend eternity doing. This is Bill Shatner’s fantasy… riding horses, chopping wood, making breakfast in a log cabin. Shatner’s paradise was commanding a starship. On the bridge of the Enterprise. That’s where we should have found him… that’s where he should have died. At the conn. it was he who should have commanded the “D” and had to make the choice to crash the Saucer section… and he should have died saving the crew. But instead, he died stupidly… and out of character.
Well, it wasn’t that great.
I always thought that the Trailer promised more than what we got. When you see the Enterprise D get fired on you see Kirk fall back against the wall as if he were on the ship himself when it’s been attacked. I always thought it disappointing that he wasn’t on the bridge with the crew while they fought the Klingons. Whoever made the trailer must have thought the same.
Sound cuts out of the trailer halfway through. FAIL
where did the reliant come from
Sound’s trailing off a bit at the end for me; could be local trouble on my machine, though? Not sure. Interesting trivia about the DVD delay!
One of the things I like most about this trailer is that it establishes the Trekkishness of the “villain” – that Soren isn’t there just to chew the scenery and be bad-for-bad’s sake. I remember being encouraged by that, because I wasn’t 100% sure I wanted to see this film. This is one where the trailer sold me.
I have few strong feelings about the film at all, though … it passed the time. Didn’t feel the ticket price was wasted. I’ve only seen it since when work required me to, though … I’ve never re-watched it for “… fun.”
TNG was, in my very unpopular opinion, always the weakest series, and the movies did nothing to change that view. “Generations” and “First Contact” were tolerable at best. Thing is, the trailer…and the film itself…accomplished what they needed to with me. They got me in the theatre because of the inclusion of the TOS characters. Otherwise, I wouldn’t ahve bothered. The TNG characters have always seemed very bland to me compared to the other series.
#6
That was the Bozeman, not the Reliant.
Technically, the title should read “Generations’” not “Generation’s” Trailer.
But the movie had enough misplaced issues, so it’s rather appropriate to misplace the apostrophe!
#2 I think you meant to say that *Kirk’s* fantasy would have been his being back on the bridge of one of the Enterprises… perhaps constantly rerunning the Kobayashi Maru… or the Genesis incident…
However, a young Kirk (as we’ll soon see) might well have enjoyed camping in a cabin and riding horses. I think the interpretation was that his new “paradise” was partly the result of the woman he was involved with. But again, I think that just proves your Shatnerian paradise point. Meh!
Ah, if only boborci had paid attention and had young JT Kirk swiping a Mustang instead of a Corvette! ;)
Say all you want about TMP, ST:V, Insurrection, Nemesis. This film as we say in Scotland, is a jobbie (poo). The worst Trek in my opinion.
Great atmospheric lighting and an ok villain but not much else. As daren doc says, this is not the end kirk deserved or wanted.
The nexus is a terrible sugar-coated clunker of a macguffin, total nonsense. Nobody has a good story arc in this film, even Picard’s bereveance is flat and Data’s emotion chip is cliched and rushed.
Rick Berman has a lot to answer for, i hope he’s cleaning toilets in KFC.
I wished Shatner had passed on this, i mean he slips off a bridge!!!!!!!!!!!
Roll on ST:XI ! We love you Captain Kirk!
#8: For me it was similar but from a different angle: I always liked [most of] the TNG characters well enough, but felt let down by the TNG *stories* … I always felt the characters were under-used. TNG usually felt very timid to me, more timid than the characters might let it be if they were allowed to grow freely and not just mouthpiece for the series’ ethos.
A few select episodes were, of course, brilliant and memorable exceptions. I just wish there’d been more of those.
And yeah, both of our opinions are bound to be unpopular ;) Ah well.
The movie just lost steam with the crash of the enterprise and they never successfully got it back up and going again. the first half of generations is pretty darn good, in my opinion, although i can see why so many didn’t like it.
Bill Shatner needs money. Bill Shatner has final script approval. Bill Shatner does crappy movie. Bill Shatner kills Captain Kirk. Bill Shatner learning to live with regret at this very moment while his good buddy Leonard Nimoy is about to release what could be the best Star Trek movie in the history of the world. Bill is sad. Sorry, Bill.
#2
mad agreement over your alternate Generations plot. It might have made the movie worth seeing more than once
Oh, yeah… almost forgot. This movie sucks so bad, it’s the reason why I actually watch Star Trek V. LOL!
…and from this point on, I never felt the same way about Trek.
Completely hated this movie, Sorry.
That freeze frame of Riker in the “Voyager era uniform” reminds me how much I disliked those uniforms. Glad they changed them for First Contact.
#2 – very well said. That death is like a still-rotting gangrenous wound, perhaps the only thing in Trek that seems like it NEVER can or will be rectified. I don’t know about you peeps, but my love affair with ST ended right there. I’m a total geek of course, and have seen every subsequent ST episode of all the new series (multiple times) and the crap-ass movies, but I’ve been checked out during all of them. None of them do anything for me. And it’s all mostly because of this total bullshit death.
#8 – right on.
Someone tell JJ to write in a scene where the ribbon is found again, and someone uses the residual Kirk presence (like Guinan’s in Generations) to resurrect the dude. Heal this sore, JJ.
I always felt ripped off by my DVD copy. I have one of the copies that says it has the trailers on it. Doh’l! LOL
Strange, the teaser trailer begins with music from the The Motion Picture.
I thought Generations had a lot of potential, but never quite captured it. I guess it’s because they tried to graft TOS action onto TNG, which tended to be more thoughtful than action packed.
I don’t think we should have to take Kirk’s settings as his ultimate choice in life. People are complex and want different things at different times. Kirk had just retired and found himself in a common place of questioning life’s decisions. Had he stayed in the nexus I’m sure he would have visited the bridge often.
Generations isn’t all that bad, it’s handling of Kirk is awful and deeply flawed which mars the film horribly, but it’s still got a lot of positives.
*It has by far the best cinematography of all the films ( with the exception of possibly TMP, but that’s an aesthetic that can leave many wanting).
*It showcased its cast quite well, Crusher was the only one that didn’t really get a moment to shine.
*I think this is the only TNG film that felt like TNG, undoubtedly a by-product of filming directly after the shows run, but none the less. In each subsequent film the crew was increasingly out of character.
*SFX work, though frugal, was great. The nexus looked terrific and the Ent-D has never looked better. Incidentally, while everyone knows they reused the BOP explosion shot from STVI, not many know that one of the close-up flyby shots of the -D was an original stock shot ILM did of the ship from 1987, used on the show numerous times.
#21
That was the problem with all the TNG movies.
I think it was a bad idea to bring the TOS characters into the TNG universe. Don’t you have enough faith in TNG to let them stand alone? And of course, to kill Kirk is the single worst thing in all of Star Trek. Worse than that stupid Sybok character in V. Bad, bad, bad.
Compound that with the destruction of the D and you have a REALLY bad start to your little movie franchise. Perhaps I am alone. but after the Connies, I love the D. This movie did have one thing going for it as she was beautifully shot. Her FX (REAL model ships, BTW) were gorgeous and she never looked better. Then you friggin’ destroyed her and replaced her with that cartoony EE.
Blechh.
One of my favorites. Don’t care what anyones says.
A tip of the hat to Moore and Braga for admiting on their DVD commentary that they screwed up. Its just too bad they didn’t make that realization while they were writing the script.
I actually have the DVD which says it has trailers, I knew about the error but went ahead and got it before it was pulled. Wish they had put the trailers on the SE/DE’s I know the first releases (at least some) had them but not sure about Gen? Will have to look again sometime… This trailer countdown made me think about watching the movies themselves again counting down but allmost there now.
#14: In fairness to Shatner, though, the movie he signed on to could _also_ have been “the best Star Trek movie in the history of the world.” Just about any movie has that potential at the point when the actors sign on (or don’t), since so very little is set in stone at that point … the script can be heavily revised or replaced, the director can change, other casting can change, what once was a musical can become something that isn’t, etc. :)
If actors could leap forward in time and choose their jobs based on the finished product, we’d live in a very different world (admittedly, it would probably be a world with fewer Star Trek movies …)
This was my first Trek movie at the Big Screen, and maybe that makes me bias, but I love Generations. I think the action sequences are some of the best in FILM. I was freaking out when the Klingons attacked, the E blew up, and THEN they had to crash. Just Awesome!
Although, it REALLY pissed me off to see the Enterprise blow up in the trailer!!!!!!!!!
While being one gigantic plothole, the movie’s atmosphere was quite interesting…second best NG movie after FC but too close to the series’ look to impress. They should have given it more thought before making and releasing it!
Yeah…it was my first Trek on the big screen, to…
too
If we credit any of the dialogue in Star Trek V, Kirk has a moment where he says “I’ve always known… I’ll die alone.” I think paying tribute to that line would have been a more appropriate way to approach Kirks ‘death scene’ if we really needed to have that much closure to the character.. which apparently paramount thought it was necessary to have. My only hope, which nobody seems to consider, is that they don’t kill older Spock, Nimoy in this new movie in order to make even more ‘closure’ on the rest of the original cast.
And Please JJ… Make the enterprise as close to the TMP model as possible!
I have very mixed feelings about this one.
It COULD have been among the best of Trek films, with a cool plot idea.
But this is perhaps the missed opportunity of heroic end of a legendary character… instead we get an uneven and useless ending to one of the most heroic men in all of fiction along with a plot that is hard to follow.
I give this a C+
Generations has it’s faults (some of which a major, to be sure), but I’ve always liked the cinematography in this film. The lighting was also excellently done and I found myself wishing the TNG series had that kind of atmosphere to it.
I also liked the redesign of the bridge. It’s a shame they destroyed the Ent-D because the bridge finally looked like a place where people actually did some work. I addition of workstations to either side really helped make it look like a functional nerve center for the ship. On the series, it always looked like it was just too big for the small number of people who were there.
Lastly, I always enjoy watching Malcolm McDowell chew the scenery. The way he delivers the line “Time is the fire in which we burn…” to Picard in Ten Forward is absolutely chilling.
23. THX-1138: “Compound that with the destruction of the D and you have a REALLY bad start to your little movie franchise. Perhaps I am alone. but after the Connies, I love the D. This movie did have one thing going for it as she was beautifully shot. Her FX (REAL model ships, BTW) were gorgeous and she never looked better. Then you friggin’ destroyed her and replaced her with that cartoony EE.”
The Enterprise-E in “First Contact” was a model, built and shot by ILM, just as they had for “Generations”. So were the Borg ships (cube + sphere). The rest were CGI, including the Defiant, which looked just as real as its DS9 model counterpart.. ILM knows how to make CG look every bit as “real” as models do…several shots of the Enterprise-B, the D going to warp, the El-Aurian ships: they were all CG.
I agree with #22, “Generations” may be flawed but it’s far from the worst film TREK. Watch it after watching V and you’ll see.
SHIT FILM! SORRY, HAD TO BE SAID!
Does anyone know why the trailers are not included on the DVD when that is standard fare today? I heard somewhere that it was a rights issue but how can that be when Paramount owns the material?
I love what happens in the teaser when riker fires his phaser, yeah, NOTHING lol
This film wasn’t awful, just very misguided.
I’ll be honest, I grew up in the TNG era, and I tend to not care about TOS as much, but I agree with everyone else that the handling of Kirk’s death was sloppy.
On a serious note, please don’t call this film shit. Malcom McDowell was an absolutely awesome villain in this film.
Undiscovered Country is the film that Kirk should have died in. Heroically saving the Federation president and taking the phaser blast as he flies to push the president out of the way. Then we would not be having the discussion today of Shatner being in the film or not. It would have been a classy ending for the character and would have been foreshadowed neatly by Spocks comments in TNG’s “Unification” about what happened to Kirk being the reason for going alone to Romulus.
Generations could have been done w/oShatner(w a different name). There is a Kirkless Generations available on the internet and it holds up fairly well as a TNG only film
The Nexus…. What horse poop! Very poor S.F. And the unforgivable way Kirk dies… Horrible, horrible waste of a major cultural icon. His death lacked both dramatic gravitas and sadness. The only sadness the fans felt was how a crap film like this could have been green lit into production. It is tragic…
I’m gonna get roasted for this, but: I like Kirk’s death.
So many fans seem him as a god, a hero, someone who can save the world every week. We instantly tell ourselves that none of us could never be Kirk. Well, that’s not the message Star Trek has about humanity, not TNG anyway. In the end, Kirk is a man, dying a mortal’s death. His death takes him out of the clouds and makes him truly human for the first time ever. If I fell off a bridge, I know I’d probably die and so would everyone on this chat board.
Sorry, let me try that again. Typos.
I’m gonna get roasted for this, but: I like Kirk’s death.
So many fans see him as a god, a hero, someone who can save the world every week without risking a hair on his head. We instantly tell ourselves that none of us could ever be Kirk or do what Kirk does. Well, that’s not the message Star Trek has about humanity, not TNG anyway.
In the end, Kirk is a man, dying a mortal’s death. The way he dies takes him out of the clouds and makes him truly human for the first time ever. If I fell off a bridge, I know I’d probably die and so would everyone on this chat board. He was in my reach at that moment… and suddenly Star Trek was possible in my eyes…
Man, that was an unexciting trailer. GEN almost killed off any interest I had in Star Trek at the time because both VOY and DS9 were sucking royally at that time.
By far the absolutely worst Star Trek film and also one of the worst science fiction films I have seen, including many B clunkers of the 1950s. The Nexus story could have been written by a 12 year old.
One of the least satisfactory film experiences I have ever had. Star Trek is total self-parody by now, from the opening moments of the champagne bottle and the cartoonish paparazzi on Enterprise B through to the incoherent plot centred around the Nexus.
The only good things in this film are the acting of Patrick Stewart, Malcolm McDowell and Whoopi Goldberg. I also found the Dickensian Victorian Christmas scene in the Nexus very touching – close to my own idea of eternal paradise – but other than that, this film has nothing of value to recommend it. Worse than that, it utterly grates on the nerves of this viewer.
I saw GEN a day before it opened at a special screening, and the theater was barely half full. A really bad sgn. GEN was kinda fun, but Kirk and Picard’s meeting should have been during an action sequence, not them being all sissy and riding horses. God.
The torch of adventure that was passed should have been thrown onto the final cut of Generations. That would have been the single best idea since Han Solo firing on Greedo first.
#45. The nexus story WAS written by a 12 year old. Braga’s son wrote it for his English class and got a D. Technically, Braga’s a plagiarizer.
#34. “Time is the fire in which we burn”. The negative for Generations should have burned in that fire too.
The ghost of Trek-mess past is haunting Shatner now. He should never have taken that role.
It would have been so cool to have them both.
Still it WILL be great.
Glad Shatner, Doohan and Koenig were in this movie. (though not Kirk’s death)
But, what a missed opportunity to get (all) both casts together. A good script could and should of been written.
48. LOL, mate! :-)
Kirk should’ve died killing Klingons.
Or while doing two green-skinned chicks at the same time.
Either way, that’d be more in character than diving after a remote control.
Braga and Moore’s commentary on this movie is probably the best I’ve ever heard because they point out how many mistakes they made. I recommend it.
never understand why people dislike this film so much. i loved it, must have watched it 10 times in the cinema.
Generations, although not the best movie, was a entertaining movie.
I loved the lighting of the Enterprise D and I loved Soran. The subplot with Data’s emotion chip was fun.
The movie was very sombre in tone which is reflective of the themes in the film. The nexus was a great idea, though the leaving any time you wish was a bit flawed.
“…oh my”
Shame they didn’t save Yesterdays Enterprise for TNGs first film and had the NCC 1701-A coming through the rift instead of the C…allowing for both crews and ships to be on screen…(the Ent A coming through the rift into the 24th Century on its way back to space dock after the events of Trek VI – and finding the Federation at war with the very race they had just established peace with in the previous film – therefore both crews have to work together to restore the timeline.)
they could have read the script for Yesterdays Ent in 89/90 and though ‘whoa this would make a great cross over film when we get around to doing it with the original cast – we better keep it on hold for that.’
Alternatively they could have just done what TMP did and used elements of the episode for the film – not doing it verbatim but similar (e.g. TMP – with Doomsday Machine/The Changeling…TVH – Tomorrow is Yesterday/Assignment Earth…TFF – The Way to Eden)
Or what if Star Trek VI had been part 1 of a two parter leading into TNGs 1st movie??
Trek VI & Generations could have been a two part story with VI ending with the supposed destruction of 1701-A and the loss of all hands as Enterprise was blasted into the time distortion as Chang fired a huge final volley at her. The Federation President is therefore assassinated and all hell breaks loose leading to war with the klingons. Last scene of Trek VI could have been Kirk seeing the Ent D on the viewer….’to be continued….’
Then Generations opens with Picard and Co encountering Kirk and Co and the badly damaged Enterprise A in the war-torn alternate time line of the 24th century…
Could have released it in 1996 thus allowing abit of time in order to come up with a decent script, build some anticipation for TNG on the big screen and also have given the TNG actors and writers etc a bit of a rest after 7 years to recharge..not thrown them into doing the movie immediately after the last ep…Plus 96 was Treks 30th anniversary – the perfect time for a crossover film. Also they could have got Meyer or Nimoy to direct the film (both had directed time travel movies) …Nimoy was offered the existing Generations but turned it down due to the script and lack of time.
It could have been an epic 2½ hour crossover movie – Star Trek VII/TNG The Motion Picture
Instead we got the nexus with Kirk and Picard making breakfast : (
Although I was very disappointed with this movie when I saw it upon release in theaters, it has grown on me since then. However, certain things still irk me:
1. TNG has a lot of excellent spatio-temporal anomaly stories, including the lauded “Yesterday’s Enterprise” episode. The story for Generations is not among them. It goes too far with the predestination paradox issue and runs headlong into some serious logic problems, even taking into account the inherent logical conundrum that is the predestination paradox issue.
2. They underutilize the great potential of Malcolm McDowell as a complex, nuanced villain and reduce his role to a one-dimensional caricature. “Nice try!”
3. As I’m not the first to note: what an incredibly stupid, anti-climactic way to kill off Captain Kirk! Talk about forcing the issue; who says the torch needed to be passed in such a contrived, peremptory way? How presumptuous on the part of the writers to place themselves in charge of this moment in Kirk’s life, only to squander it.
2 – i know what u mean….
Kirks ‘prophecy’ in TFF – ‘Ive always known…I’ll die alone..’ sort of set up a tremendous death scene in a future film (e.g. I’m thinking Kirk..alone..on the bridge of an empty enterprise…saving his crew/earth somehow…the captain going down with his ship…sorta like This Side of Paradise’s alone on the bridge scene mixed with Star Trek IIIs destruct scene)…shame they didnt follow up on it instead of choosing to kill him under a bridge instead of on one..
Quite incredible…. every trailer has come and gone, and every one is rubbished, along with the film it represents…. each series gets rubbished…. oh and the new film, even before we see the real trailer… is rubbished…. what odd “fans” trek has (oh and then they wonder why it keeps nearly getting killed off!!!). For god’s sake, it’s geat fantasy story telling…. is the world so jaded it forgot how to enjoy a bit of escapism!!!!
Really Sucked.
It should have been both Crews, Meeting (completely) Both Enterprise A and D. If Kirk had to Die, it should have been a much better way than in this….”Film.”
I like the teaser a little more.
Oh and Bravo #53. ety3, Bravo.
While this is not my favourite Star Trek movie, it is by no means the worst. It seems to me that Generations was made as kind of a cross over movie. Passing the torch from the Original Crew to the Next Gen crew.
There are several pretty cool moments in the movie. The beginning of the movie was great with Kirk, Chekov and Scotty on the bridge of the Enterprise B (thus every Enterprise from the Original ship to the D had been seen) and Kirk saving the day before he is presumably killed. We get to see Kirk and Picard working together and of course any movie where the Enterprise is destroyed creates a wow moment.
And ultimately we see the death of Kirk! However as we know when someone visits the Nexus they leave part of them behind so really if you think about it Kirk will live on forever!
why did it have to be a crossover movie anyway? The whole passing the torch thing had been done at the 25th anniversary with Star Trek VI (how peace with the klingons emerged…Cornel Worf….Kirks final log entry) & TNGs Unification..They didnt really NEED to do a crossover film…just a full on TNG movie cause TNG was popular in its own right (dunno what story though…maybe just done First Contact for the 1st movie)…Anyway the minute they realised they wouldnt be able to get the 2 enterprises on screen with the 2 complete crews the crossover film should have been scrapped. (one of the writers of Generations even said that as soon as the crossover film was suggested the image that came into his head was a movie poster with the 2 enterprises and Kirk, Spock plus Picard and Data)
The movie wasn’t as bad as many people make out, but it was a bit of a disapointment, the music was weak, the plot was all over the place, and kirks death was an unacceptable travesty. However, the film does look beautiful. The effects were great for the time, and the lighting of the enterprise D sets was fantastic, the scenes in Ten forward looked amazing as did the ones in the ready room, this will look great in HD.
This movie destroyed my childhood. They killed off my favorite captain and blew up my favorite Enterprise. I hate Rick Berman for having done this to me.
I miss the Enterprise D
hmm, why do so many star trek fans here seem to hate star trek? lol so does that mean u hate urself :-)
What a bad trailer. It basically told the whole story of the movie – no need to go to the cinema and watch it :-/
While this wasn’t the best Trek movie by far, I don’t think it was as bad as most people say it is. I think too many people were expecting too much from it. Kirk dying needed to happen because they weren’t going to make anymore TOS movies. The story was a bit thin, more like a two hour episode than an epic movie story, but it’s hard to come up with a Wrath of Khan caliber script every time.
“Now, the torch of adventure is about to be passed.”
That tag line is wrong on so many levels. If there was ever a moment I would classify as “Passing the torch” for the Next Generation it would have been McCoy walking through the corridors of the Enterprise D with Data on the first episode of The Next Generation. Generations for me marks the end of the Next Generation era, so why the heck say this is where the torch gets passed?
Over the past week, viewing the countdown of trailers, i’ve noticed every star trek film has more than a few comment’s here along the lines of “Worst Movie Ever”! and far too detailed descriptions of why they suck, really if u find that a movie was’nt great u usually just view it once, maybe twice, not study and dissect its suckiness ,… and comments on the original series, why it sucked, next generation, suck suck suck…….yea get me… anyways, i hope JJ Abrams really doesnt read any of these posts, i’d be embarrassed….. Welcome to the utopian world of star trek fans JJ… :=))
I like this film I rank it in that mid range it’s no First Contact but good.
I was upset at the death of the Durass Sisters and the destruction of the Enterprise D but my main hangups were the flawed Nexus Temporal Logic, Picard’s Family BBQ, oh and Data’s Emotion chip seem to contradict Decent and abit of a cheat. Otherwise though it was a great film.
Yes, it could have been so much better, but it’s not the worst ST film.
Nemesis is by faaaaaar the worst ST film because it’s such a stupid story with such a stupid director.
Not a bad movie at all (Insurrection & Nemesis are much worse) but TBH Kirk, Scotty, Chekov & ILM save the movie from utter failure.
In 1994 as soon as the opening 17 mins with the TOS crew is over the jarring dissolve from the Ent-B to a holodeck sailing ship is one of the worse ideas in the history of modern cinema. Berman just did not have a clue about cinematic Trek. He even gave interviews at the time and said fans would not notice the reused FX shots from ST6 (like it was that hard to notice them!!). The difference in tone for me sank the movie there and then. I only sat through the TNG parts to see what Kirk’s fate was but the boredom was extreme.
Originally the TOS crew was supposed to have the 1st hour of the movie then hand over the Nexus mystery to the TNG crew to resolve and officially pass the baton. Maurice Hurley wrote this script. Much better idea but Berman obviously nixed it in favour of the story we got as he was determined to bury TOS once and for all by killing Kirk off anyway he could.
Nimoy declined an offer to direct the movie and told Berman the script needed more work!! (how right he was).
Nimoy & Kelley both declined to appear in the opening 17 mins so they went to Dohan & Koenig instead.
Berman axed the Kirk orbital skydiving scenes with additional Scotty & Chekov dialog when it highlighted the strong TOS characters but said it was axed for pacing reasons (yeah right!!).
Berman had to panic reshoot the ending after shooting Kirk in the back did not go down well with test audiences (you don’t say!!). But still managed to shoot a poorly realised ending which was hardly an improvement.
An echo of Kirk is still alive in the Nexus.
JJ tell me you knew this right as your the man in the Star Trek driving seat right now but could not use this simple plot point to give Kirk one final hurrah could you!!
I remember the Two Generations Will Meet trailer for 2 reasons:
1) I instantly recognized the re-purposed (aka ripped-off) sequences from TNG…
2) I thought, Jeez, they’re blowing up another Enterprise.
There’s a lot to like about Generations. But, it’s also clear it REALLY needed another year’s worth of development and enough budget to make the effects special.
Oh, and AN ENDING THAT DOESN’T ENRAGE ME STILL AFTER 14 YEARS!
Daren –
Hmmm… now THAT would have been a good ending.
As Shatner would say (mispronouncing it) “C’est la vie!”
I didnt like the way that Kirk died in this film. I think he deserved to go out fighting instead of being crushed by a bridge. I also think they should have found a way to have the captains meet in ship to ship battle or something. I appreciate the movie because Kirk and Picard met other than that, it was okay. Not my favorite but okay. I think the way Kirk died was extremely problematic. After all those years and battles that is the best they could come up with?
Confused Bozeman, please check “Ship of the Line” by Diane Carey. The books won’t explain why Capt. Morgan “Frasier” Bateson flew his ship through the trailer, but it is a very good read.
new imrproved grammar:
Confused Bozeman fans, please check “Ship of the Line” by Diane Carey. The book won’t explain why Capt. Morgan “Frasier” Bateson flew his ship through the trailer, but it is a very good read.
68 – amen! Although for me, it ruined my adulthood.
42 – you can still portray Kirk as less-than-immortal without some hokey death sequence on some god-forsaken planet. You’re right – we’d all die on a falling bridge (BTW, we’d all be dead long before Kirk was, too, if you want to look at that bridge fall literally). But the bridge didn’t need to be there in the first place. Kirk should’ve rammed a ship into something and died. Period. Humans can do that and not be immortal, you know.
The best thing I can say about this movie is that it had a great opening. Otherwise, it was as dull as TNG in general. What crap.
Here’s another possible roasting invitation: I think Riker is a total pussy. He had a zillion chances to show us some balls (in the episodes and movies). The closest he came was acting tough when he had no other choice (ie: when his ship was about to blow up). He’s horrible. What a poor Kirk replacement (and don’t tell me that’s not what his character was supposed to be). I hate that guy. Oh, and now that I’m on a tirade, Geordi is a hermaphrodite, Troi has no freakin’ business on board a starship, and Wesley needed a slap. Horrible people.
Uh, I’ve had a lot of pent up anger about TNG, obviously.
Well this movie had a lot of promise. It had action and adventure and the makings of a good story. But it failed in the story.I can see why they had kirk die on Veridian 3. Kirk said in Trek 5 he would die alone. But that was not the way anyone suspected he would die. I thought he would die not being with his crew.if he had died on the Enterprise D then that would have meant more and made his death more meaningfull and not on Veridian 3. All in all on a scale of 1 to 10 Generations scores a 6. But barly.
#68 & #69
I couldn’t agree more. It astounded me that this was the second time that the writers decided to blow up the enterprise. Picard made the comment in one of the latter movies that “there are plenty of letters in the alphabet…”, I just hope that future writers weren’t listening to that comment. They should be slapped on the side of the head if they decide to follow this lousy trend.
At least they did not go with the original ending, which had Soran shoot Kirk in the back.
After seeing this ending, I believe the one in the film was better
Generations is good sci fi. I felt that the movie was more of a TOS than a NG story.
I like that Picard’s secret life was one of the victorian era. Shows also that Christmas and family were still very important to him.
As for Kirk, well we all have secrets that we keep, and perhaps that was what Kirk kept away from anyone.
Yet again, we fanatics go to the movies expecting what WE want to see and most of the time that doesn’t happen.
Generations was also the 1st NG movie, so what were you expecting, remember what you first thought of TMP?
Star Trek is entertainment. It gives us fictional people to look up to.
So relax and enjoy the ride, quit being so judgmental.
I remember there was a push for Shatner’s ‘The Return’ novel being made into a movie as a direct sequel to Generations. It was absolutely magnificent and I liked how it crossed over all 3 eras of the time (TOS,TNG & DS9). It would have made an immense movie.
would people stop bitching TNG. TNG became a great show in its own right.
I love all five shows. I feels that the spin offs are all being wrote off because of this new movie
I’m surprised at the level of venom for Generations. It’s actually my favourite TNG era film. If you get past the slightly ludicrous Nexus concept, the film’s quite a rollicking fun ride. As has been mentioned the cinematography is amongst the best in any Star Trek film, I love the music, and I love the variety and colour of the locations and settings in the film. All the following films seemed fairly limited and grey and small – Enterprise and Montana village, Enterprise and Baku village, Enterprise and Baldie’s Starship. Boring. At least Generations has colour and excitement.
Why do people insist Kirk fell off a bridge? He didn’t! He made a heroic leap onto a collapsing bridge to save an entire solar system. If he hadn’t decloaked the missile, it would have launched and killed millions of people.
Despite the film’s shortcomings, this period represented the absolute height of my love of Star Trek–and the prospect of Kirk and Picard together on screen was incredibly exciting. The summer after this film’s release I got married and we had a fun Sci-Fi themed honeymoon in Vegas complete with a trip to where Kirk’s death was filmed (Oops, spoiler! ;), and a visit to Rachel, Neveda (just down the highway from Area 51).
Good times.
This movie was the beginning of the end. Kirks death and the destruction of the Enterprise were also highly illogical and useless. After that Star Trek has become more and more childish and lost its depth.
I have always loved Generations. Something about it seems very epic. And the ship shots are all very nicely done. Will never forget the moment the Klingon torpedo punches through the Enterprise shields.
Though it was fill with plot holes, and the death of Kirk is unforgivable. But still, it wasn’t all bad.
Okay, killing the iconic fantasy character of Kirk off (without having an intended way of undoing it in place) was just such a bad idea in the first place. Talk about a downer!!!
I still remember looking forward to going into what I thought was going to be an uplifting Star Trek Movie at the time….but coming out of it depressed as hell….
I’ll always consider ‘Generations’ to be the nadir of the franchise rather than ST:V. As someone previously said, great fictional characters are hard to come by, and it’s a real shame this one was killed off at all.
When this movie came out, I couldn’t believe how dark… litterally… it was, compared to TNG. My vision of the Enterprise is a place where there is a lot of light, but it was just so dim. It made it feel like a long, but poorly shot TNG episode.
Not a great start to the TNG films. But not the worst of them either.
THIS MOVIE IS A MESS.
Characters and story are all over the map. A crushing disappointment.
To all of you bitter about Kirk’s death in Generations…
I’ve always taken solace in the fact that, to those closest to him, he “died” as he said he would: alone. A hero. Saving the Enterprise and her crew, yet again.
“My god. Was anyone in here?”
“…Aye.”
WHAHAHAHA!!!!!
This trailer is better than picture!!!!! xD
This film is interesant, but very disappointing.
Oh, I almost forgot.
- Enterprise D gets owned by a SINGLE, defective Bird of Prey.
- Spread of Photon Torpedoes = Single Torpedo
- The death of Picard’s family. Was that even needed?
- Too big of a “margin of error” to shoot down a missle heading towards the sun because the phasers would take between 8-15 seconds to get a lock. How many times in any Star Trek series was there ever a “Phasers locked on target” moment where it took longer than just two seconds to lock onto anything?
- If the echo of Guinan can’t go back with Picard because she’s “there already”, does that mean that there’s a second Picard when Kirk and Picard go back?
- How was it that the re-shot ending is better than the original ending?
- Uh, Picard…. You just left a completely priceless artifact that you were so honored to accept on the floor of your room while looking for your book.
- According to the trailers, saving a planet we’ve never heard about that has a pre-industrial humanoid society = SAVING THE UNIVERSE!!!!
Yeah I loved the Enterprise-D and was grown up with TNG. I never got along with the Enterprise-E and I never felt the same good vibe by comparison with the TNG series or the classic movies. Such a great mess the writers did! Believe me, this new style implemented by ST:Gen was the beginning of the end in 2005!!!
And I don’t want to talk about the epic potential they wasted with this movie (think of the word “Crossover”!!!!). So it was just a bad joke…
#70 & 74 – mikey – I know your questions are probably rhetorical, but I have an answer for you. The people we have the most fights with are the people we love the most. Star Trek is incredibly important to a lot of people. We’ve invested a lot — probably way too much — of time watching and thinking about these characters. Of course we’re going to see ways that things could have been better, and wished they could always be the absolute best all the time.
We gripe because we care.
Scott B. out.
P.S. Add me to those who think Generations, like the Final Frontier, was a terribly wasted opportunity.
It occurs to me, do you think the line “I don’t need to be lectured by you” was inspiration for Kirk to say something similar to Spock in the new movie…assuming the trailer description is accurate?
Funny how they reused footage of the Bozeman from “Cause and Effect” in the teaser. Wait, till you see the teaser of “First Contact” containing nothing else than stock footage! :-)))
Kirk’s death is one that people expected to be epic. The problem was the trailer gave them false expectations. Plus for all of you saying Kirk fell off a bridge, he did not. He rode the section of bridge down as it collapsed. If it had not hit the outcropping and started the bridge section into a spin, inverting it, I’m sure Kirk would have had a better chance of survival. But, even the close-up shot of Kirk’s face before he jumps shows that he knows he most likely won’t be cheating death this time. It works for me; he sacrifices himself so that Picard’s crew and the inhabitants of the Veridian system will survive. I think that his death, though not the epic demise we were expecting, was fitting for a man who was willing to sacrifice everything to make a difference. Now bringing Kirk back from the dead, I couldn’t care less one way or another, as long as the story is good and its not cliche. Using the Nexus is out because he left it (the echoes can’t leave). Cloning is not valid. I’m sorry but even a legendary character such as Kirk is only a mortal Human being, not a Vulcan with the ability to transfer his soul to another so that it will be eventually rejoined with his body. Once he’s dead, he’s dead, and Kirk’s death fits his character whether you liked it or not. Sure the womanizing and the tough as nails attributes are Kirk’s, but they don’t fit the situation. As for the comments about Nimoy’s Spock dying in JJ’s film, I think that if they make it work within the context of the story and with the characters motives, it will work.
Guinan should captain her own ship….
check out the fan edit torrent kirkless generations ;)
Generations – what a terrible movie!!!
#2… you’re forgetting something…as kirk got older his priorities changed..after the klingons killed david kirk began reevaluating hus life and by his retirement he just wanted to have a somewhat normal life and leave the saving the galaxy to the ‘next generation’ lol, (read shatner’s post-generations kirk novels for more on this—running theme: kirk wants to settle down but keeps getting dragged off to save the galaxy once again…
#100…LOL…yup the same thing happened with the torpedoes in nemesis…but in nemesis’s case are we to believe that the enterprise-e, which was a warship built to fight the borg and the dominion (how interesting we never saw any sovereign class ships in the dominion war fleets in ds9), after firing about 40-50 photon and quantum torpedoes, has exhausted its’ complement if torpedoes? LMAO
and about the supposed second picard…yup ur right…KIRKS DEATH WASNT NECESSARY..moreover…what happened to that other picard? if he still existed by nemesis, couldnt shinzon have pursued the duplicate picard as a backup plan for his blood problem?
I loved the old TOS style engineering and computers onboard Soran’s research station.
109.
Tell me something I dont know……..
“it was fun” errh.. what..how.. why did they killed Kirk like that????
OMG they killed Kirk.. you nerds!.
Actually now i really hope ST XI is a reboot :)
does anyone know why the trailers were not on any of the dvd releases?
i still have a vhs copy of the trailers if paramount cant find one…
this was the first trek movie i saw in the cinema at 2pm in the day- the saucer crash had me shaking in my seat!
i walked once around the mall and went back to the cinema to see it again- first and only time i ever saw the the same film back to back at the movies.
it was the same day as the Oklahoma bombing in the us.
Never saw the longer trailer — interesting that it incorporates music from Holst’s “The Planets” — my favorite!
Also, both trailers seem a little deceptive in suggesting that there is on-board ship time spent between Kirk’s generation and Picard’s.
I read the J.M. Dillard book version before I saw the film and it benefits enormously by having a scene with Soran meeting his dead wife. That really sold me on the Nexus and when I saw the film, I was disappointed with the way it was executed.
I think this video sums up what it was wrong with the second half of the film and Kirk’s death.
Sorry, this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_5h0BRO5O4
I wonder if the trailers give away a lot of the movie because they know how us fans have probably been gobbing up all the spoilers we could find already! No point being coy!
Something that has always bothered me was when Kirk says about not needing to be lectured by Picard because he was saving the galaxy back when Picard’s grandfather was in diapers is simply not possible. According to TOS Kirk was out “saving” the galaxy in the 2260s. Picard was born in 2305. So let’s say that his mother was in her 30s or so when she had him. That would put HER birth at around 2270’s so I doubt very much Picard’s GRANDFATHER (from either parent) was in diapers a mere 10 or so years before the birth of his mother.
What was with that quick scene in the teaser trailer that has a ship that looks like same class as the Defiant from TWOK?
There were no echoes of Kirk or Picard remaining in the Nexus. Guinan explains that she’s in both places because she was pulled away, thus creating the two entities. Kirk and Picard both left of their own volition, so there wouldn’t be the duplicates/other halves, what have you.
Regarding Kirk’s death: at the time, the Trek folk may have had it in their heads that killing off Kirk would make a statement that the TNG cast was it and would add some finality to the TOS movies. I think the actual death itself was a missed opportunity, but it wasn’t as bad as some make out.
I hope to see QOS this weekend, and would happily provide a description of the trailer.
Out of the next generation movies i feel the urge to watch Generations most along with Insurrection because of the emotional journey picard was on.
the film was about something mortality/imortality family change…
I saw this movie with a friend the day it came out. We were in shock and disbelief to see Kirk dies on screen. We were sure that it happened in the Nexus and that Kirk is still alive. It was the most pointless scene in Trek history. Killing Kirk served no purpose.
Ran
120
Don’t you mean the “Reliant”?
two generations stand together
sounded like fun.
Here is the fan edit where Kirk LIVES:
Part I:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=M2JeKeVynbY
Part II:
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=hOopmLt3X_U&feature=related
Pretty cool if you ask me.
Stupid to kill KIrk off like that, just plain stupid.
This was my favorite of the TNG movies… I though it was a lot of fun. I’m a big fan of Malcolm MacDowell as well.
I can’t get over the death of Kirk. It was my favourite character and the way he died is hardly acceptable for me. In my opinion the screenplay could have been better…. There two things why I don’t like this movie: the death of Kirk and the destruction of Enterprise D. It is senseless for me.
#115
That’s actually Cliff Eidelman’s Star Trek VI score. He used ‘The Planets’ as a central theme for that film.
It was a few years after its release that I saw Generations on television.
It was as goofy as I expected it to be. The characters never had any personality I could warm up to or identify with enough to root for.
Shatner’s portrayals of Kirk had been sinking into more “James T. Kirk as William Shatner” than “William Shatner as James T. Kirk” since 1989, IMO, and this one was the worst as far as I am concerned.
The death scene was bad, on the part of the writers, director, and William Shatner (his entire performance as Kirk in this movie looked like he could barely keep a straight face).
Captain Harriman takes his place as one of the worst Starfleet captains ever portrayed to that point. He has no command presence or dignity whatsoever, and appears completely lost in a crisis situation.
The only scene I really liked at all in this movie is the battle between the Enterprise-D under Riker’s command with those goofy Klingon girls in the Bird Of Prey. That scene was fairly well done.
This is not a movie that I would ever recommend to someone else, or that I would ever consider watching again.
Why weren’t there two Picards after he “returned” from the ribbon? Why would he even need Kirk to help him, if he was already in the past ready to help himself? For that matter, why would he return to a point where there was only minutes to spare to try for a redo? Why not go back further, give himself more time?
My theory is that Picard never left the Nexus, and that Star Trek ended the moment he entered it, having lost his ship and crew and having failed to save a star system. He’s in there in retreat from the reality of his awful failure, dreaming up alternate futures where he single-handedly saved history from the Borg, found love on an alien world and had an evil twin nemesis….
What I love most about this movie: The Enterprise-D. She looks absolutely stunning on screen (for the few scenes she’s actually seen) and she was wonderfully shot. Galaxy Class starships really are quite beautiful in my opinion.
Which leads to the thing I hate most: The destruction of the Enterprise-D. What a waste!
122 Trekboi- I agree.
This film has its merits, and Insurrection is very underrated.
Unlike INS though, GEN was a very depressing movie.
Also, the scenes with Kirk and Picard were horribly written.
Killing Kirk? Biggest blunder ever, with reprecussions that stand today.
Thanks a lot, Braga.
I think that the reason Kirk’s fantasy was about his old house et al was because that was what he wanted at that point in his life (when he entered the nexus). But he slowly realizes that its not, he wants to be out saving the galaxy and commanding the enterprise, and that’s why he leaves.
A few things about Generations:
* Off all the Trek movies (aside from TVH), this was the one my friends that hated Trek most liked.
* The Soran character would have benefitted greatly if they’d left a number of cut scenes in the film. One such scene involved torturing Geordi with nanoprobes to find out exactly what Picard knew about Soran’s plan. Interestingly, it was in the comic adaptation of the film. There were also planned sequences in the Nexus where Soran is given his family back. I think the movie suffered from poor story editing.
* From a visual standpoint, I think this is one of the best looking Trek films. The use of natural lighting on the ship didn’t make much sense, but it gave the film a very unique look. Also, the blended use of CGI & models prevented it from looking too cartoony, as a lot of modern Sci-fi has suffered from that. The Nexus – while being a strangely contrived plot point – looked great.
* The reuse of effects from previous films was annoying and definitely noticeable for any Trek fan, though hardly the first time it happened (see: Star Trek II, Star Trek III, etc.)
* A lot of the foundational elements of the story are solid, so at times it’s hard to know what went wrong. I mean, a villain so consumed with loss he’s willing to destroy an entire civilization just to get his wife back? How the hell do you mess that up and make it seem trivial?
* Rushed rushed rushed. If Rick Berman had just waited a year, they could have worked out the kinks and presented us with something that I think we wouldn’t feel such apathy for.
* Gene R was right – the two crews shouldn’t have mixed like this. Especially Kirk & Picard. They represented different times, different attitudes. It was too much of a culture clash. I think it would have been better to kill Kirk on the Ent-B, then somehow reflect on that event later as a clue to Soran’s origins. Something. Bringing the guy 80 years in the future just to kill him 5 minutes later seemed kind of pointless. I mean, I personally would have preferred Kirk’s fate to remain an unknown, but apparently Berman & Shatner were determined.
I’m afraid Mr Shatner MUST take alot of the blame for the sloppy nature of Kirk’s death, not just Rick Berman et al.
He COULD have bowed out in style with Star Trek VI and – in our imaginations – still be on the bridge of a ship somewhere flying around the galaxy. But nooo….. he just couldn’t resist the temptation of being involved in ONE… MORE… film…. Mister! (lol!). This should have been a completely FRESH start for the Next Generation on the big screen…
People act as if he was forced into doing this or something. FACT – Shatner READ the script and ALLOWED his death scene to be filmed twice… and VERY badly! I think it shows how much he really cared about his character at that point… The first he was just shot in the back… the second… well we all know how much better that demise was….!!! Mr Shatner could easily have weighed in on this and said I’m not playing a death scene like THIS, and politely refuse to be involved, like Mr Nimoy… instead he went into it FULL WELL knowing what was expected of him, and the fact this was the end of his character.
I get angry now when I hear him moaning about not being in the new film… I’m sorry Bill, but you should have thought of the future when you signed on for Generations. Seems to me he is tired of Star Trek (and who can blame him if you think about it), but also cannot handle the idea of not being involved in someway in each movie series…
I’m afraid (Trek) history does “consider you dead”.
The trailer for this makes me very cross – it reuses battle sequences from the TNG series and slots them in to make the film look more action-y than it really is. It borrows quite heavily from ‘Best of Both Worlds’, for example.
Grrr…
The film itself wasn’t that bad – Malcolm McDowell was good as Soran, and it was good to see Lursa and B’Etor again, even if they were drastically under-used.
I loved the Enterprise-B, but as Closettrekker pointed out, how did the Captain ever get a command? He was frickin’ useless! And as if Starfleet Command would ever send a ship out on a shakedown cruise with key components (like the tractor beam) missing? Publicity stunt or not, they wouldn’t do it.
I was gutted by the destruction of the Enterprise-D – the ship was taken out before it’s time, and it was done so cheaply, and so callously. Watching that scene hurt more then watching the destruction of NCC-1701 in ST:III. It hurt even more in First Contact when it was replaced by the characterless Enterprise-E.
And Kirk dying – that sucked. Surely there was a better way to kill him off than that? Not the worst Trek film, but certainly not one of the best in the franchise.
#42 – 43 Cagmar
Shazam – you’re roasted!
I find it weird that the Enterprise B is the only ship in range to save the two refugee ships… in our own solar system!?
When I see this movie on TV I do a Capt. Kirk , that is I dive for the remote control!
As a movie, it was no worse than TFF or INS. As a two-part episode, it was medicore at best. GEN is best watched on television because that’s where it plays the best– as an extended episode of TNG.
What a stinker. ALthough it did at least put to rest the ridiculous argument that Stewart is a better actor than Shatner. Despite the fine British accent, every scene which featured Picard and Kirk ended with Shatner stealing the scene. Shatner has an onscreen charm and charisma that poor Patrick was no match for.
Too bad the movie didn’t end when the E was exploded by that Nexus nonsense. That would have been a great ending to the entire mediocrity of TNG!
Back to the trailer: when Kirk says “Let’s cheat death together”… where is that in the film or deleted scenes? That’s an interesting line given the outcome of the movie.
#143
Seriously? I thought it went the other way. Shatner was mugging for the camera in this film, A LOT. Including Trek V, it really put me off his later performances of Kirk. Stewart had some actual meat to chew on in the scenes involving his family and the Nexus.
#145—-I agree.
I definitely like the character of Kirk as Captain better….far better, but Shatner’s best performances as James T. Kirk were a few years behind him for sure.
TOS-TVH=William Shatner as James T. Kirk=great
TFF (TGTTO89)-GEN=James T. Kirk as William Shatner=not so great
Kirk is a much better character than Picard, but I wouldn’t say that has anything to do with who is a better actor. Furthermore, Shatner’s scenes portraying Kirk in GEN are extremely far removed from his best.
#143
“Seriously?”
Yep, the charm of Shatner’s Kirk blew Stewart off the screen in my opinion. Shatner was always the one to watch when the two were together. Stewart is always good, he just comes off as rather cold and uninteresting….great voice though.
And while Picard has never ever been a man of action, he did fall down the rocks rather well (when he wasn’t stuck in them!)
#131 “Shatner’s portrayals of Kirk had been sinking into more “James T. Kirk as William Shatner” than “William Shatner as James T. Kirk” since 1989, IMO, and this one was the worst as far as I am concerned.”
No surprise, but I have to disagree, Closet. Although the script was mediocre and Kirk’s death ruined the movie for many fans, I think Bill did a very nice job with what he was given. I saw this movie with DVD commentary from Moore & Braga a few years back, and they gave him his due props for his acting. You have to remember, the Kirk in Generations was a retired man over 60 years of age. There was no reason for him to be as serious and intense as he was 25 years earlier, when he was in command. I think the slight wistfulness with which Bill played the role was just right for the character at that stage of his life. Kirk had mellowed a bit. And he had some great lines!
“Risk is part of the game if you want to sit in that chair.”
And I loved the too brief interaction between Kirk & Scotty:
Kirk: “Sulu. When did he find time for a family?”
Scotty: “It’s like you always say, if something’s important, you make the time.”
I always found it amusing that all the cast members start the film in their TV costumes and then one by one start appearing in their new movie costumes. It’s like the uniforms just arrived from the cleaners and everyone changes into them as soon as they get some R&R!
BTW, I totally agree how silly the whole Nexus thing was. Picard’s fantasy is to be a daddy in some kind of weird Victorian Christmas Carol reality? Kirk’s fantasy is to live in a cabin in the woods with his horses? Perhaps Picard really would have loved to have a family but I agree with the notion that Kirk’s fantasy should have been on the bridge of the original Enterprise, boldly going where no one has gone before.
126# That is a great fan edit of Kirk lives in Generations endings part 1 & part 2. How about if Paramount and Rick Berman use this fan edits of Kirk lives part 1 and Picard’s new Enterprise part 2 in Generations to give it a better ending and go right to DVD and call it “Generations Kirk Lives”?
#147 “Yep, the charm of Shatner’s Kirk blew Stewart off the screen in my opinion. Shatner was always the one to watch when the two were together. Stewart is always good, he just comes off as rather cold and uninteresting….great voice though.”
I agree. Shatner definitely killed in the likability dept!
“And while Picard has never ever been a man of action, he did fall down the rocks rather well (when he wasn’t stuck in them!)”
Haha! True. I always loved the way Kirk first appeared to Soran. His heroic stance. Confident, head held high, slight smile on his face. Not a trace of fear. He was ready to kick some ass! :-)
I guess the torch has to be passed eventually…average trek movie…i think second best of the TNG films
#147
Fair difference of opinion, then. See to me, it wasn’t so much charm as smarm.
I went to see Stargate (the movie) just to see the GEN trailer, and I left feeling quite optimistic about the new film. The trailer certainly promised a lot more interaction between the two crews than was delivered…. Before the premiere I had also picked up an issue of EW that featured a Star Trek retrospective which included interviews with Berman and Shatner about GEN; it was suggested that the ending was being reshot in order to make Kirk’s death more meaningful. While he did have a hand in stopping Soran (I could never understand the whole process of exiting the Nexus at any point in time or space by free will…) I didn’t quite buy the “new ending” and was disappointed at the demise of such a central character. The scenes on the Enterprise B are probably my favorite (although Harriman certainly does not come across as a very good Starfleet captain); perhaps that’s where Kirk should have really died.
I went to opening night of this film which included several fans dressed up as Klingons – they booed when the Bird of Prey was destroyed. Perhaps they should have saved their boos for something (not) meaningful.
Oh, I do love the Nexus music and Picard’s scenes in the Nexus. And even if it wasn’t Kirk’s fantasy, Shatner’s explanation of the horse-riding scene as a metaphor for how Kirk decided to accept Picard’s proposal for leaving the Nexus makes that scene worth watching.
Did Generations DVD without its trailers get pulled then re-release with it’s two trailers in them?
What was that scene with Dr. Crusher coming out of the doorway in the teaser? She had a ST VII combadge on, I dont remember seeing that?
Weak, like half brewed tea.
Tuber out.
Ohhhhh…. shit!
2. Daren Doc –
“The problem with Generations are many and varied… but the basic one that always bothered me was… this wasn’t Kirk’s “paradise” fantasy… this wasn’t what he would spend eternity doing. This is Bill Shatner’s fantasy… riding horses, chopping wood, making breakfast in a log cabin. Shatner’s paradise was commanding a starship. On the bridge of the Enterprise. That’s where we should have found him… that’s where he should have died. At the conn. it was he who should have commanded the “D” and had to make the choice to crash the Saucer section… and he should have died saving the crew. But instead, he died stupidly… and out of character.”
I totally agree. Kirk (and Scotty and Chekov, too) seemed out of character throughout the whole film to me. It was glaringly apparent that Braga and Moore didn’t really know the character that well — he felt out of sync. And yes his Nexus fantasy simply made no sense given what we all know about James T. Kirk.
Thought it was lazy that they recycled Scotty’s “I was out flying starships when your grandfather was still in diapers” line from “Relics” but had Kirk saying it to Picard this time. And then put it in the trailer.
#148—-”I think Bill did a very nice job with what he was given. ”
That depends upon the goal which he set out to achieve as an actor.
“I saw this movie with DVD commentary from Moore & Braga a few years back, and they gave him his due props for his acting.”
Forgive me if I don’t afford Moore and Braga the expertise on judging what a good James T. Kirk performance is…
“You have to remember, the Kirk in Generations was a retired man over 60 years of age. There was no reason for him to be as serious and intense as he was 25 years earlier, when he was in command. I think the slight wistfulness with which Bill played the role was just right for the character at that stage of his life.”
First of all, what stage in his life is actually being depicted is hardly clear.
In fact, the period in his life depicted in the “nexus” (his relationship with Antonia) is considered by the contributors of Memory Alpha to be after TMP and before TWOK. If, as Memory Alpha suggests in Kirk’s biography, his relationship with Antonia takes place shortly before TWOK, it doesn’t work. While it isn’t concrete canon, I think it is the best working interpretation.
He talks about the decision to “return to Starfleet” and his anguish over telling Antonia of that decision.
The Khitomer Conference depicted in TUC and the incident aboard the Enterprise-B are chronologically close (according to MA—in the same year).
The whole “retirement and return to Starfleet” really only works, IMO, prior to TUC…not after it. If it were only “retirement”, without the “return” part of the equation, then I could see it….but it is what it is.
I could see it taking place between TFF (TGTTO89) and TUC, I suppose, but it works better as a brief retirement sometime during the years between TMP and TWOK.
If this is the case, Kirk is rather poorly portrayed in Generations by William Shatner. That would have been a more somber and regretful Kirk, IMO. How would he go from the very cliche ranch-type atmosphere to the urban bachelor pad in TWOK-TSFS?
In any case, I think the whole lifestyle Kirk is depicted as enjoying in Generations is more reminiscent of Christopher Pike’s fantasy (or William Shatner’s)on Talos IV than anything James Kirk would partake in amidst a retirement. Of course, whether that is a result of Shatner’s input or purely the concept of the writers is unknown.
Plot holes, incoherence, the worst Jim Kirk in history. Let’s forget this movie.
Just think if they had sat on the script to Yesterday’s Enterprise and used THAT for the basis of Generations…man, that would’ve rocked!
Sorry if someone has already pointed this out…it’s a big thread!
Addendum to #161:
The whole “accomplished equestrian” angle to the character of James T. Kirk is something invented by William Shatner in STV and explored in Generations.
Where the heck did that come from?
I didn’t like it. That was Christopher Pike (and Bill Shatner)…not Jim Kirk.
There were so many better options for the first crossover story — first one that jumps to mind is YESTERDAY’S ENTERPRISE. Would have been better to shelf that story and save it for the first film. Hindsight is 20/20, of course.
138 James: “I was gutted by the destruction of the Enterprise-D – the ship was taken out before it’s time, and it was done so cheaply, and so callously. Watching that scene hurt more than watching the destruction of NCC-1701 in ST:III. It hurt even more in First Contact when it was replaced by the characterless Enterprise-E.”
I couldn’t have said it better myself. The loss of the ship seems like a triviality tacked on to the B story. Unlike in TSFS, there was no honor in her demise. No real regret shown by the crew for the loss of their friend and home. Taken out by a single, outdated BOP after barely firing a shot. Bleh.
#159—”It was glaringly apparent that Braga and Moore didn’t really know the character that well — he felt out of sync. And yes his Nexus fantasy simply made no sense given what we all know about James T. Kirk.”
What was ‘glaringly apparent’ to me is that they relied on Shatner for direction on the character. The equestrian angle was something that BIll dreamed up for the character in STV.
When Shatner is given too much creative leverage, the character suffers, IMO. I think he failed to understand that people were paying to see Jim Kirk—not William Shatner. There’s a difference.
Like Nick Meyer implied, Kirk is best portrayed by Bill when under the watchful eye of a strong director. Shatner is the tail wagging the dog in this case, I think.
140. Brad –
“I find it weird that the Enterprise B is the only ship in range to save the two refugee ships… in our own solar system!?”
Lol! Yeah I remember thinking, “Uh oh, they used that same scenario in STV. This could be bad…” The Enterprise is the only ship in range! And she’s a mess! Spock, get your rocket boots!
166. barrydancer –
“138 James: “I was gutted by the destruction of the Enterprise-D – the ship was taken out before it’s time, and it was done so cheaply, and so callously. Watching that scene hurt more than watching the destruction of NCC-1701 in ST:III. It hurt even more in First Contact when it was replaced by the characterless Enterprise-E.”
I couldn’t have said it better myself. The loss of the ship seems like a triviality tacked on to the B story. Unlike in TSFS, there was no honor in her demise. No real regret shown by the crew for the loss of their friend and home. Taken out by a single, outdated BOP after barely firing a shot. Bleh.”
Strange, isn’t it, how both the mighty James T. Kirk and the Enterprise D are so ingloriously killed (and two deaths for Kirk!) in this movie. You’d think after Tasha Yar’s pointless death on TNG these two main writers would’ve known better. If you’re gonna kill them, make it big!
By the time this movie came out I was very, very tired of seeing that same Klingon Bird of Prey. It’s destruction here never looked more like an exploding plastic model.
167. Closettrekker –
“When Shatner is given too much creative leverage, the character suffers, IMO. I think he failed to understand that people were paying to see Jim Kirk—not William Shatner. There’s a difference.”
Closet, that may be the best argument I can think of for not including Shatner in the new film. He stopped being James Kirk sometime after STIII and had been more Bill Shatner with each outing. By the time of Generations he was just Shatner — enjoying (at the time) semi-retirement on his horse ranch with a big ‘ol dog.
Must say, I agree with post # 43 completely. I’ve always viewed Trek as one big, sprawling and on-going metaphor for humanity and indeed, life itself.
Kirk’s death may seem anti-climactic to some, but anyone who’s ever lost a loved one before their time knows that death can and will come whenever and however it comes. We have no influence over it. To orchestrate some grand “blaze of glory” finale for the legendary Kirk would have seemed contrived and ultimately would have had less of an impact on me. Death is shocking. Why should Kirk’s be any different?
- I really like this movie..it’s a great ending to a great trek series : T.N.G. .. although the move has certain mistakes..
Dr. Soran and those two klingon sisters are my favorite evil characters from trek movies…
That’s one of the mistakes in the TNG movies. Real Star Trek doesn’t represent classic villains….you always had and have an antagonist, but actually that villain thing is an absolutely no-go… – another reason why it all ended in 2005!
My feeling regarding Generations is that it should have been a stand alone movie. They didn’t need Shatner at all, or Kirk. (ditto with XI. It doesn’t need Nimoy.)
Also Nexus plot didn’t make any sense at all and i find it really hard that general audience understood it either.
watch Generations crappy ending review from Youtube
watch?v=u6bqtbNl00E
p.s. how in hell did Harriman got promoted to Captain(WHF) . If Kirk hadn’t intervene i wouldn’t be surprise that Harriman had ordered self-destruct order hoping the shockwave would somehow move Enterprise B to safety.
#164 “The whole ‘accomplished equestrian’ angle to the character of James T. Kirk is something invented by William Shatner in STV and explored in Generations.”
So, Closet, is what you’re saying that wild horses couldn’t have dragged you to see Generations?
Hahaha. :-)
A total missed opportunity. Kirk was terribly written and not in character. I am a TOS and TNG fan but this movie really fell short on my expectations. Antonia who the heck is she, it should have been Carol Marcus or at least a recognizable gal from Kirks known past. But even that wouldn’t have repaired this. Kirks death was very poorly handled. No wonder all the Shat fans feel they want a redemption.
#174—”So, Closet, is what you’re saying that wild horses couldn’t have dragged you to see Generations?”
….or any TNG-era movie.
:)
Next Gen was a quality TV series, and far from bland. I grew up on TOS, it was my favourite show from early as I can remember. I resisted Next Gen at first, but after I watched a few episodes, I saw just how great it was. Well written, and thought provoking. It wasn’t TOS, but that was kind of the point. It was nice to see that despite being different, it stood on its own legs.
Given the success of Next Generation as a T.V. series, there was no need to sell out and do a cross over movie.
Apologies to all Enterprise-D fans, but I never thought of her as ‘beautiful’. Her oversized saucer and stubby nacelles made her just appear awkward and front-heavy to me. But like a past girlfriend of mine who wasn’t a beauty queen, she won me over with her character.
Now the Ent-E was a HUGE improvement. Sleek, sexy lines and legs that go on forever…I wish we had more screen time to get to know her. She’s a beauty!
Lousy garbage movie. Burn the negatives!
Blowing up the Enterprise D was a huge mistake. I always thought they should have just blown up the secondary hull, and had the saucer section survive. That way, we could have had a “new and different” seconday hull added to the saucer section for the next movie. One that had longer warp nacelles, and a little more kick ass. the saucer section could have had some modifications made to it too, but at least it would have still been the NCC-1701-D.
44. Enterprise –
“Man, that was an unexciting trailer. GEN almost killed off any interest I had in Star Trek at the time because both VOY and DS9 were sucking royally at that time.”
Lol, you’re right! It’s actually surprising that Trek didn’t loose mometum about that time instead of around Nemesis. TNG had ended strongly with “All Good Things…” but otherwise season seven was a bore with a lot of who-cares episodes. DS9 was in the middle of season 3, handsdown it’s weakest season, when Generations debuted. I’m a big fan of DS9 but that season was just awful. It’s unfortunate since, for half a year, it was the only Trek on tv. Then VOY debuted a few weeks after Generations and it was a real mess. Talk about Trek oversaturation.
I would have liked the movie if they hadn’t killed Kirk.
But Data’s life forms song makes it slightly redeemable. ^_^
177, I couldn’t agree more. Paramount was nervous for no real reason. TNG was already well-established as its own entity. The crossover was a cheap gimmick that assumed there was a vast, separate audience for TOS movies. The gross for First Contact (a marked improvement over Generations) kind of proved that there was only one audience for Star Trek, despite the many tastes of its fandom.
That said, Generations is a flawed, but underrated and admirable effort. Great cinematography, a solid score, good work by Patrick Stewart and thematic and character elements that were worthy of Star Trek make it a film that stands head and shoulders above the careless, bland efforts of Nemesis and Insurrection. It is the one true TNG movie, as it captures the aesthetic and emotional vibe of the series for the last time. I think for most diehard TNG fans, Generations is our Final Frontier. A middling effort that still holds a special place in our hearts.
“Lets try and cheat death together..”
What a great line from Kirk. Why did they cut that from the movie? It adds a lot to the trailer.
#175 completely agree
i went to see this film out of curiosity and naivity. i dont really count this movie at all. the baton was handed over beautifully in trek 6. there was no need to hand over this again especially in a botched up story line like this. there was also no need to kill off james T kirk in that rediculous ending.
I think this was a cynical move to stick bums on seats – they knew that fans like me would go and see it because having loved kirk all our lives, we wouldnt want to miss his funeral. they didnt really care about what the fans wanted. its done and they got the money. shareholders and investors happy.
im also dissapointed that the shat took part in this and must have agreed to the killing of the character. im sad about that.
i have all the movies up until trek 6. i didnt bother after that. no disrespect to the NG. they just wernt for me. im extremely excited about this new venture though. on a positive note, i do love the music to the movie which i think is among the best of the series.
so its a big thumbs down for me.
Greg UK
@#37
Yes, it’s a right issue. I suppose it’s caused in the many scenes they used from the TV show in a trailer for the movie franchise. Movie rights are owned by Paramount and TV rights by CBS. This might be the reason. Could anyone confirm this?
Trekmaster,
Thanks for trying to clear that up but I think my point still hold water. If you’re right they are still two different wings of the same conglomerate. I’m sure there is some kind of shared policy between the two.
The fact that they (Berman and Co)made Lursor and Be’tor the villians in the movie showed how they had a comic book mentality toward Star Trek. The story was forced and didn’t work at all and Kirk deserved a much better ending. If they couldn’t have done better than this then they should have waited a couple of years to do the movie right than rush it and produce this saturday morning matinee. Oh well, gripe, gripe, gripe. Let’s just hope Star Trek XI blows them all away.
One problem I had when I saw Generations was that I had already read Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens fantastic STAR TREK FEDERATION novel the summer before, and I sorely wanted THAT made into a movie. In fact, when I first picked up the novel, all I knew was that the movie would bring the two crews together, so I sort of assumed it WAS the story for the movie. (Coincidental that Zephram Cochrane, one of the central characters in FEDERATION, went on to become a central character in FIRST CONTACT).
GENERATIONS was overall a let down although I really enjoyed some particular themes. Picard’s grappling with the emptiness of not having a family and “what could have been” kind of reminded me of “A Christmas Carol,” which is probably my favorite story. I wish they had carried that further.
@#186
Yes, but remember that they never showed us the Enterprise-E in DS9 during the dominion war, and this ship was pretended to be build just because of this war (and the borg incidents). Maybe the Enterprise-E as a part of the movie franchise was legally protected of being used in one of the TV shows.
@189 From what I’ve read in the past, it was a music rights issue, at least for the trailer. The beginning of the trailer uses music from Holst’s The Planets. Not sure if that’s the particular music that caused the rights problem, but it’s likely.
@190; I don’t think The Planets would cause a rights issue. Isn’t that public domain?
Do we know that they had to pay a fine because of using the music in the trailer?
#179 … Don’t hold back, TJ, tell us how you really feel.
The Remastered DVD Edition Star Trek Season 3, I haven’t seen “The Cage” listed on it anywhere. I thought Remastered “The Cage” was to be on the remastered season 3. Has anyone heard about “The Cage” remastered out on DVD?
#181
Season 3 of DS9 the weakest?!?! That’s when the show really hit its stride with eps like ‘Defiant’, ‘Past Tense’, ‘Visionary’, ‘Improbable Cause/The Die Is Cast’, ‘Adversary’. You consider those weak? They lay the foundation for so many events in subsequent seasons!
#119 – Although I never thought for a minute that Kirk was speaking LITERALLY, he could have been referring to adult diapers, supposing such a thing exists in the future.
#134 – Depressing indeed, and I don’t think it needed to be, to be effective. Zut, alors.
I always felt Kirk’s part in the film was a bit silly, but I think the blame for that can be shared between the writers, director, and actor and not lais solely at the foot of one. It was just a silly, gimmicky idea to begin with. Although there’s a lot I like about this movie, I think it delved too far into “OMG look at us we’re making a MOVIE!” territory and not far enough into the storytelling that was the strength of TNG.
#89—-”would people stop bitching TNG. TNG became a great show in its own right.
I love all five shows. I feels that the spin offs are all being wrote off because of this new movie”
I’m glad you like them all, but this is a thread involving the TNG characters, so of course there will be opinions which vary from yours.
Some of us do not care much for TNG. The thing is, TNG does not need any individual’s validation. It was very successful as its own variation of Star Trek, surviving 7 seasons and 4 feature films…not my cup of tea, but so what?
Anytime there are comparisons made, you seem to get upset.
Why is that?
Do you need your opinion to be validated by everyone else?
130 – Sean: Could’ve fooled me! That sounded like Holst to me for sure. “Neptune the Mystic” if I am not (further) mistaken. In fact, it sounded like it note for note…
#190, 191
The music is actually from Cliff Eidelman’s Star Trek VI score. He used ‘The Planets’ as a basis for that work.
#198
I used to have the CD soundtrack to Trek VI, but I have no idea what I’ve done with it. But I assure you, the music in the trailer is from that soundtrack. In fact, I remember the CD had a brief introduction by Nick Meyer, where he talked about ‘The Planets’ being crucial to the film.
I thought Cliff Eidelman’s work in ST6 is based on Igor Stravinsky’s “Firebird”!?
This film probably played better for people who were only fans of TNG and the film series as it existed then. The more “mainstream” crowd as it existed back then. People who watched TOS reruns and DS9 as well were probably disapointed.
Just looked at the poll on the right.
88% (approximately 221 out of 252 answers) unhappy with Kirk’s death in Generations to some degree…
They really screwed the pooch on that one, didn’t they?
@#203
Instead of ST:Gen I would have liked to see a story like Shatner’s “The Ashes of Eden”.
@200 Actually, the music that plays for the first 30 seconds of the trailer is from the Neptune movement of the Planets.
The music that plays after the TNG theme, from about 0:50 onward, is from Eidelman’s Star Trek VI score.
Kirk’s nexus fantasy makes perfect sense to me. At the moment he entered the Nexus, he was in the middle of a tense and dangerous situation, getting blown up. It would make sense for him to want a minute to come round before he did any more adenturing. Presumably if you spend eternity in paradise, you do take SOME breaks?
Personally, I really like Generations. Don’t get me wrong, there are SO many things I would change about it, but I like the film because of its atmosphere. It has a kind of “quiet sentimental warmth” to it. For me, it’s not a “space battles” film, it works more as a psychological film about time and mortality. And then, I love everything about the Nexus: the mystery of it; the way it’s both dangerous and heavenly, violent and beautiful; I adore the stellar cartography scene and the concpet of bending its path (ingenious and epic), and most of all the Nexus looks very convincing — they did a great job with the graphics, and seeing this space phenomenon quietly approaching in the blue sky of the planet, that to me made it seem more realistic than most space films. I also think the soundtrack to this film is terrific and, for me, that makes a big difference. (First Contact’s was too, of course!)
#205
You’re right of course. Doh! My brain went on vacation. Eidelman did use ‘The Planets’ as a basis for his Trek VI score though. I distinctly remember reading that.
@206
Yes he did. As I recall, Nick Meyer even looked into licensing The Planets to use for the soundtrack of Star Trek VI but it was too expensive. That’s when he turned to Eidelman to create something similar.
#204—Not me.
Once they did TUC, and implied that the bulk of the original characters were to be retired, that was it for me.
I think it was a mistake to go in the direction they did after TVH.
I would like to have seen a new 5 year mission under Captain Kirk aboard the Enterprise-A depicted on screen…if only a few adventures.
—Kirk would be Captain, of course.
—McCoy would stay on as Chief Medical Officer.
—Spock would remain Kirk’s best friend, but go on to resume his career as a teacher (unless he could convincingly take a demotion back to Cmdr. in order to remain with Kirk), and would be replaced by Saavik (although could be included in a story or two) and a new First Officer.
—Scotty would either retire or remain as Chief Engineer aboard the Enterprise-A, either way.
—Sulu would assume command of Excelsior, perhaps even with Cmdr Chekov as First Officer.
—Uhura would be assigned to SF Headquarters.
At the very least, Kirk would need fresh young faces at the helm, navigation, and communications positions. This would have afforded the opportunity to cast some new actors/actresses that would appeal to younger viewers, and would of course—have made more sense than 2 Captains and 5 Commanders all serving aboard one ship.
Just my opinion.
Interesting that this board hasn’t devolved in to dueling screeds on Kirk’s lousy death. I have, for my own sense of continuity, concluded that what happened in the ribbon didn’t really happen in the real world.
Has anyone paused to consider how unbelievably lame it is that Picard just happens to be present for both Sarek and Kirk’s deaths?
The real pisser is that, while Kirk technically died saving 230m people, we have no emotional connection to those people. Had it been 230m Klingons or something of that nature, where his death is the healing of a wound, a closing of the breech, making him a hero even to his greatest enemy… now that would have been heroism. That would have explained Worf’s presence on the D.
Just picked up a nicely used and tattered copy of Diane Carey’s BEST DESTINY, which I’d skipped back in the day. I’m more and more convinced that KO used the books like concept art.
195. sean – November 10, 2008
“#181
Season 3 of DS9 the weakest?!?! That’s when the show really hit its stride with eps like ‘Defiant’, ‘Past Tense’, ‘Visionary’, ‘Improbable Cause/The Die Is Cast’, ‘Adversary’. You consider those weak? They lay the foundation for so many events in subsequent seasons!”
You name the *only* redeemable episodes of the season. Even “Defiant” is kinda lame (none of the space battles are seen, only talked about; Tom Riker’s appearance was a stunt to bring over TNG viewers). The producers must’ve felt the same way as I do since they retooled the show even further in season 4 by adding (fresh from TNG and Generations) Worf to the cast. Sorry, but I still feel season 3 is DS9’s weakest. Dare I mention “Equilibrium”, “Meridian”, “Life Support”, “Heart of Stone”, “Prophet Motive”, “Facets”, “Second Skin”, “House of Quark”, hell, any of the eps you didn’t mention? Mediocre at best. Again, don’t get me wrong, I love DS9 (think it’s far too underrated and has the absolute best ending to any Trek series — every loose thread is tied up), but season 3 is the weakest of the 7. Terry Farrell is still awful in season 3 (really feels like she took some more acting classes during hiatus before season 4). The writers and the actors really hit their stride in season 4. It’s apparent from the season opener. When Quark compares Starfleet to root beer in “Way of the Warrior” I really felt we’d turned the corner and it was gold from there onward.
@#209
That’s what they should have done with Picard in the TNG movies after ST:Gen and not just after ST:Nem. That was too late for character development
206. Jamie –
“Kirk’s nexus fantasy makes perfect sense to me. At the moment he entered the Nexus, he was in the middle of a tense and dangerous situation, getting blown up. It would make sense for him to want a minute to come round before he did any more adenturing. Presumably if you spend eternity in paradise, you do take SOME breaks?”
I kind of see your position (and, by extension, the writers’ as well, I imagine). But as a dramatic devise in a (largely) action-adventure movie seeing Kirk contentedly cut wood in the Nexus made little sense — and apparently the Trekfans largely didn’t “get” it either. Plus, add to it the timeline confusion — Kirk died after his 2nd retirement after STVI and his Nexus fantasy apparently takes place during his first retirement between STI and STII (but he still looks a *lot* older than he did in STII) — and the whole thing is sort of derailed.
Kirk lamented in “The Naked Time” that he had “no beach to walk on” since he was married to the Enterprise but his Nexus fantasy goes one further and focuses on a time in his life when he’d, apparently, completely forgotten about the Enterprise and moved on. It’s just the most bizarre thing to imagine a twice-retired Jim Kirk returning to that particular time. Again, I know the dialogue and know where the writers were headed, it just did not resonate for me knowing (as I feel I do) what the core of Jim Kirk is.
I had big concerns about the film based on all the behind-the-scenes cockups. The trailer did nothing to assuage these concerns. The result was a film that had me depressed leaving the theatre.
What did we leave Generations with?
Kirk pointlessly dead. The Enterprise pointlessly destroyed. Lursa and B’Etor pointlessly dead. Soran dead. Picard’s family line wiped out. Data an emotional basketcase.
I hoped the novelisation would be better, but the talented Jeanne Dillard’s book with its appearances by TOS characters managed to make it even more depressing.
Star Trek: Generations pretty much killed Star Trek for me. It took Abrams’ arrival to bring me back fully to the fold!
@#214 – Dom
FULL ACK
Ugh, what a CRAP movie. All of the TNG movies suck majorly. So long as the new one is nothing like these clusterf**ks I’ll be happy.
I like how the teaser implies that Kirk was going to have more involvement in the film than people realized. When I was a little kid (I think I was about 7 years old when ‘Generations’ came out), I was disappointed because Kirk’s appearance seemed like an afterthought, and when Rick Berman killed him (not Soran), I was crushed. ‘Star Trek Generations’ was very middle-of-the-road, and in my mind was one of the worst films of the series. It didn’t work as a ‘Next Generation’ movie and it certainly didn’t work as a sequel in general. In that regard, ‘First Contact’ was a true return to form, and then…you know…’Insurrection’ and ‘Nemesis’ happened.
#213—-”…it just did not resonate for me knowing (as I feel I do) what the core of Jim Kirk is.”
Nor did it for me.
Am I the only one who thought the crash of the saucer section went on too long? There was one side view that made it look like it was on rails and the crew was just sitting their bobbing their heads instead of wondering why they seemingly weren’t slowing down. That saucer must have had a heck of a wax job on it!
Just to add something to my post in #213, if it was the writers’ intent to show Kirk at his most relaxed cutting wood on his uncle’s farm then why in the name of holy hell was he doing it in a Starfleet uniform??
I think that this film wouldn’t be so hated if the original idea of First Contact, bring Kirk back with the borg, had been done.
#221—-I think that FC, as it is, is the only watchable TNG-era film. Even that one is only mediocre at best. I suppose we’ll get to that tommorow.
Bringing Kirk back with the Borg sounds very lame to me. It happened, and that should be the end of it. Contriving a way to undo it is even worse, IMO.
I really can’t tell, from the first trailer, what travesty the film actually was.
It’s a good trailer, in that respect.
Some of the cheesy dialogue creeps into the second trailer, but still, it succeeds in misrepresenting the overall quality of the film.
I remember reading an article, before Generations was released, in which Leonard Nimoy explained why he wasn’t in the film.
That sent up red flags, the significance of which were, of course, born out by the film.
222. CommonSense –
“I think that this film wouldn’t be so hated if the original idea of First Contact, bring Kirk back with the borg, had been done.”
I disagree. Then both Generations *and* First Contact would be hated, instead of just the one. Few people want to see a sequel to a crappy movie if it’s purpose is only to correct the mistakes of the first film. I’m glad FC had nothing to do with GEN.
YUCK
Generations was the beginning of the end for Star Trek and a HUGE wasted opportunity.
Besides giving Kirk the worst ending of a major character in modern film history, the film was a convoluted mess that stretched all credibility and showcased some of the most egregious examples of lazy writing I have ever seen.
This should have been a big fun film that passed the torch from one generation to another. Instead we got a half baked plot about something called the nexus where you can wish yourself and what amounted to a depressing story about death…WTF were tptb thinking? Nobody wanted to go to a funeral when Kirk and Picard met.
This should have been a rousing adventure where Kirk,Spock etc..could interact with Picard, Data etc at the height of ST’s popularity.
Star Trek’s slow demise can be traced back to the day this film debuted. It went nowhere but down (with the single exception of First Contact) since then.
Generations was and is a major disappointment.
Hmm. Well…
(posted by “Admiral Nelson” at http://www.aintitcool.com)
Word from my Contacts at Paramount…who are genuine fans of ST:TOS is that this film is going to infuriate long-time fans, for a bunch of reasons. A.) the script plays like “Top Gun in Space.” B.) The production design (including the exterior of the Enterprise” is absolutely abysmal. People who’ve seen it says that “Galaxy Quest” has better set design; the Enterprise interiors look variously like “a sci-fi theme restaurant” or “the cosmetics counter at a department store.” The Enterprise exterior is atrocious — the ship has been enlarged to BSG size (it’s way bigger than 1000 feet), and the proportions are awful — a tiny secondary hull and gargantuan engines. (As my friends said, there’s a reason Paramount isn’t showing the whole thing yet — the fans are gonna hate it when they see it.) C.) J.J. Abrams isn’t a Star Trek fan — he’s a Star Wars fan, and it shows. D.) The scriptwriters have no love for TOS — they grew up on The Next Generation, and their take on the characters is simply wrong. And finally, here’s a plot detail that you read here first, to prove that I know what I’m talking about: there’s a scene where the Enterprise does an atmospheric drop just like the Galactica in the “Exodus” ep (Abrams is a big BSG fan.) I’m seeing this film, but mainly for the ILM effects, the Michael Giacchino score, and because of Simon freaking Pegg as Scotty. (And don’t get me started on how stupid it is to have a pre-teen Kirk driving a vintage Corvette 200 years in the future.)
#212
Hmm, I guess I just disagree. The only true stinker amongst those, for me, was House of Quark. Then again, DS9 did suffer from time to time with its Ferengi obsession.
I dunno, I like ‘Defiant’ a lot. It allowed Frakes to play a different character, and was certainly no more a stunt that having the O’Brien’s from Season 1 on or Worf from Season 4 on. Or having Picard & Worf visit DS9 on TNG. The story was interesting, I liked the insight into Dukat (missing his son’s birthday, etc.) and seeing more of Cardassia.
I also really liked ‘Second Skin’ for similar reasons, as well as introducing Kira’s relationship with Ghemor, which would come to a head in ‘Ties of Blood and Water’. Plus you were reminded of just what a cold-hearted killer Garak could really be. ‘Heart of Stone’ was great because it forced Odo to deal with his feelings for Kira, and we find out that’s the real reason he hasn’t joined his people. ‘Through the Looking Glass’ was an excellent mirror universe episode, before they started going to that well too many times in the last few seasons. ‘Fascination’ was hysterical, a nice comedic break in an otherwise fairly serious season. ‘Life Support’ was instrumental because of Bareil’s death and its effect on Kira. ‘Explorers’ was a great father/son episode.
I guess in the end, DS9 was always more about the characters than the space battles, for me, so I enjoyed even the slower-paced stories because at least you gained new insights into the various characters.
I was three when this movie came out. The first scene from any trek movie or tv episode was the scene where the Enterprise D crashes on Viridian III. Since then I have grown to hate TNG, (for some reason I prefer ENT, TOS, and DS9), but I love this movie (the soundtrack is awesome and the end has some REALLY amazing quotes from Picard and Riker during the scene where they are on the wreckage of the bridge). This one and First Contact are the two best TNG movies. I would have liked to see Kirk survive, but, as the saying goes… All Good Things…
#61
it is far easyer to be negative and criticise than it is to support someting and stand up for ur beliefs or even just your likes because there are so many people ready to tear u down too.
sad.
we should be supporting each other and sharing the things we like instead of just being negative because its safer.
comon people show trek some love – lol
The first scene “I saw” from any trek movie or tv show was the crash scene from this… sorry i left the “I saw ” part out. any way, I was three and it scared me.
@#232 – mjmjr91
You should watch the whole TNG series from the beginning. Friendly idealistic people with the best intentions and behaviours humans could have.
#211: “Interesting that this board hasn’t devolved in to dueling screeds on Kirk’s lousy death. I have, for my own sense of continuity, concluded that what happened in the ribbon didn’t really happen in the real world.”
In my personal version of Star Trek, everything after Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is well-meaning fanfic :)
Hmm. Except maybe Star Trek V, which I’m not entirely sure is well-meaning.
one thing that aways bothered me about this movie is that picard never mention kirk at the end!….like he saved the day by himself….a simple….picard saying …thanks to kirk we?…….or something that would have been great!!
actualy i found kirks bridge death horrible- as soon as u saw the bridge fall i closed my eyes the the first 5 or 10 times i watched the film before i realised they didnt show the bridge hit- lol i was young though…
I think what’s missing from Generations and what makes kirks death seem so empty is we never see or know the people he saved- we needed crowded alien city shots- mothers with their kids in parks like the scenes in Terminator 2 before the bomb dropped.
we needed a familiar face/race to be threatened for kirk to save and for us to feel it was worth it.
what did we get a desert rocket launcher and a faceless number too big to understand and see in real human terms.
Does anyone agree?
hmmmm…. not as bad a many say, but not very good. There are some parts I like, many I don’t…
Things I like…
- Data, many don’t like his schtick in this movie, but I thought it was quite enjoyable.
- The Klingon sister chicks were entertaining.
- There must be something else, but can’t think of it…
Things I didn’t like…
- Kirk retired? He should have been #1 Admiral in Star Fleet.
- The Nexus thing
- Enterprise B hack job on the Excelsior, various reasons given to why they did this, but pretty lame.
- Capt. Harriman, handing over the keys of the E to Ferris’ buddy Cameron, a real slight to the stature of Star Fleet…
#35 Simon
I’m fairly certain you missed my point.
My problem with Generations, like most of you – I wanted to love this movie. The trailers were awesome and VERY MISLEADING. I expected to see 2 crews from two different eras working together side-by-side. I expected to see more of Kirk and Picard together, not for barely 10 minutes towards the end of the film, This could have been a great movie, but it was a letdown. There were a few bright lights for me, I thought the score was just as good as any of the scores in the movie series. I enjoyed seeing Kirk and Picard working togther, albeit for just a limited time. I can also COMPLETELY understand why Nimoy declined to be in this film.
RE: 236
You are correct!
All I felt was that the only thing at risk was a deserted planet that looked like an arid environment! Nothing for our hero to save!
And just WHY was Kirk chopping wood in his Starfleet uniform?
It doesn’t seem logical either in real life or a fantasy unless he really had regrets that weren’t expressed in the film!
#228 Dennis
If that’s true then I have officially become worried.
Kirk’s death was as pointless as the one Tasha Yar suffered at the powers of the vile tar creature Armus!
Very pointless…and without meaning.
Lame.
206 – Thanks. I thought for certain that that was Holst’s “Neptune the Mystic.” Glad to know I’m not going too senile — yet.
#228
Based on that little rant, he sounds like a bitter old TOS fan that can’t handle the revisions. Plenty of people working at Paramount claimed Nemesis would be good, so I don’t know why we should trust anyone there that says this will be bad.
Life forms,
You tiny little life forms!
You precious little life forms!
Where are you?
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo!
Generations got me hooked on Star Trek. Thus, I LOVE IT!
I had heard that Eidelman had used The Planets as inspiration for the Trek VI score but I never knew they used the actual music in the Generations teaser. Just heard some pieces from The Planets. Wow. Great stuff. Definitely gotta put it on my Christmas list.
I guess it was music copyright issues that kept the trailers from appearing on the DVD. From what I know of how this works, Paramount would have had to pay an additional royalty to include the music in the trailers on the discs. Anyone who owns any Married with Children DVDs past the 2nd season is familiar with this. The Sinatra estate wanted too much money to keep using “Love and marriage” on the DVDs, so Sony cooked up a new jingle… it’s pretty lame, btw.
228- I really, really hope you are wrong. But I fear you may not be.
The real problem was the Nexus itself. The characters had total control of time travel. When it looked like they were going to fail against Soran, why not wait for the nexus and go back to try again? Why not have Picard go back to the Enterprise and arrest Soran in 10 Forward? For that matter, why not go back and keep his family from burning in the fire? And while I am on it, how do we know they even left the nexus? Perhaps them working together to defeat Soran was just another Nexus fantasy?
Even with those giant holes, it was still fun to see Kirk and Picard together. Only the Shatner scenes were the interesting ones. And unlike in STIII, I was thrilled to see the USS Hilton (Ent-d) blow up. I never like that ship.
Anthony,
So, why werent the trailers and t.v. commercials included with the DVD and all the other movies had them?
Everyone at Aint it not cool always slams every movie no matter what it is, but they praise pieces of crap like Saving Sarah Marshall or the latest Kevin Smith bomb.
@233 I own every episode of every Star Trek series and all the movies to date on DVD, and agreed. Riker, Worf, and Data are my personal favorites. I do like Picard (although I am a big Archer and Sisko fan)
#228 Dennis Bailey
If that report proves to be accurate….and I repeat IF….then that’s a scary kind of indicator of how lots of TOS fans are going to feel about the look of the changes to so many things.
If these changes seem TOO contrary to the look and feel of the original TOS series design ethic, a lot of TOS fans will not appreciate them, regardless of how good the standard of effects, and materials used.
As much as I wanted to see a certain kind of TOS style brought back for the big screen, the fact that a TNG-orientated Writer and a Star Wars-orientated Director got the gig, makes me wonder if it hadn’t been better if the just ‘rebooted’ the Trek franchise with a completely new and unseen era…
What was with the uniforms? DS9 had different uniforms because they were federation observers. Why did VOY and this movie have DS9s uniforms? I never understood why they when back and forth in the uniforms during this movie. That has bugged me ever since it came out.
I realize that the D was blown up for 1 reason: so they can make a new ship for the next movie. TMP got away with a “refit”. If it had to go, that was the way to do it.
Was very sad to see the Duras sisters go. In the words of TNN, “I would”
What is up with the lights? Are they on backup power? I’ve never understood that. After watching that ship for SEVEN YEARS, we know how it should look.
And why does it take the ENTIRE movie to transition uniforms?
They should’ve just started with the new ones. I’m sure the non-Trekkie audiance was lost.
Umm… I saw V and Kirk has to die alone. He wasn’t alone. He’s burried alive under a pile of rocks.
What’s up with the new Captain of the B? Do his leadership skills show up on Tuesday too?
The marketing department needs to stop giving away deaths.
I hear they wanted to (very early on) have the poster showing both E’s (A & D) locked in battle.
Obviously marketing didn’t come through with a Kirk v Picard script.
I’ve been watching Trek since I was born (yes, in the hospital) but this movie is what made me see Insurection on DVD and not on the big screen.
233. trekmaster said: ‘You should watch the whole TNG series from the beginning. Friendly idealistic people with the best intentions and behaviours humans could have.’
Or . . . Neo-liberal space Nazis who are so arrogantly convinced of their superiority that they travel from planet to planet claiming that humans are better than anyone else, mocking the android because he has no emotions, mocking Barclay because he isn’t ‘one of us!’ allowing a planet and its inhabitants to be destroyed rather than move them to a new world.
Oh yes! What an idealistic friendly bunch of people they are! I’d love to have that bunch watching my back! :p ;)
#254 re: Uniforms:
I didn’t view DS9 uniforms as “observer-specific”, just the latest Starfleet design (for commissioned officers – Sisko, O’Brien, etc.). I know that on the “Star Trek: Generations” DVD commentary, writers Braga and Moore say there was some concern from costume designer Bob Blackman that the TV uniforms wouldn’t hold up on the big screen (seams, etc. visible) so they transitioned to the DS9-style (at that time, anyway – DS9 style itself later changed, too) uniforms. It’s been noted that in “Generations”, Frakes is actually wearing Avery Brooks’ DS9 uniform (!), and having to roll up the sleeves because it didn’t fit quite right. They don’t explain why there’s some TNG TV style uniforms (like Picard) visible – but myself, I always got the personal impression that budget and timelines were tight so they did a little “mixing and matching”, some had old uniforms, they begged, borrowed and stole (Frakes wearing Brooks’, etc.).
I’ve seen some companies with uniforms (mail carriers, utility companies, whatever) have a mix of old and new style uniforms while they transition and the old ones come up due for replacement. Maybe the scenario was supposed to be similar. :)
Can you just see Moore and Braga sitting around writing the script saying hey did you see “The Fugitive” you know the train wreck lets do that to the Enterprise and to make it more special lets kill Kirk and not let him back into the Nexus. Wow what a really stupid idea. This could have been a great film instead its barely entertaining. Kirk had stated he always die alone they should have kept it that way. The whole production was rushed with the ending of the seventh season and the movie and the fans suffered because of it. The story of the two generations could have been epic instead it was just OK. The Bermbragamoores wasted almost unlimited potential. How sad how very very sad.
257 uniforms:
If you watch the DS9 first episode Sisco and the other officers came on with the gen 2 TNG uniforms. Then they changed into the new DS9 ones to show they were observers.
Thank you for your explanation of why they did it behind the camera, but from a continuity stand point it drives my crazy. First, they turn off all the lights on the ship and now the crew is mixing and matching uniforms?
#195 It will be on there. I promise.
Of course it has its myriad of flaws, already discussed here. But I do want to say I probably have the fondest memories of this movie. Seeing it opening night, getting all the toys for christmas, the feeling of the time, the excitement of seeing the next generation on the big screen…for a long time I deemed it my favorite simply b/c it was the flavor of the moment. It was in many ways the zenith of my personal fandom. I was shocked for the destruction of the big D, shocked at Kirk’s demise, thrilled at the alterations to the sets and costumes. I know its not a perfect film…or a great film…or maybe even a good film, but I have nothing but great memories of it and the time it was released.
Such a disappointment.
‘Dillweed’ indeed!
Its called getting a life. It was appropriatly Generation. Who cares where the apostrophe is! In any case yes he died stupidly and Kirk didnt have to die to make a great film. If Shatner had complained enough they would have changed it so he lived…….