ST09 Trailer Countdown: Taking A Look At ST: Nemesis’ Trailer November 13, 2008
by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Feature Films (TMP-NEM) , trackback
The new trailer for JJ Abrams Star Trek hits theaters tomorrow (and some will be catching it in the wee hours at midnight movies). So today we bring an end to our retrospective look at Trek’s past trailers, with the final film for the TNG crew, Star Trek Nemesis from 2002.
For every good…There is an evil
Theatrical trailer for Star Trek Nemesis
Commentary:
The film may have been a financial failure, but you can’t fault the trailer for Nemesis for hurting box office receipts. It is a fantastic tour de force of music and images, stylistically rendered. The trailer begins with cool edits of eyes morphing into various shapes and comments by Shinzon. The trailer is the first since The Motion Picture to not feature music from Star Trek itself (the music is from the promotion of Tim Burton’s Planet of Apes). The style is also based on what is known by some fans as "The Episode I" style which is to feature short, almost unconnected dialog and scenes from the film at first, with text instead of narration, followed by quicker edits of action scenes. There are brief moments which are in the trailer, yet not shown in the theatrical feature film. Like The Wrath of Khan, which obviously is riffed in Nemesis, the trailer is mostly about the relationship between hero and villain, with a bit more emphasis on Shinzon than Picard. The trailer essentially gives away the reveal that Shinzon is Picard’s clone and even reveals the Enterprise and Scimitar colliding which is the big action scene of the film.
But all in all this is a very good trailer.
Teaser: A Generations Final Journey
The teaser for Nemesis is also quite good and shows a surprising amount of the film, including a number of effects shots (rare for teasers). It has action, humor, and even a little sex. And with the tagline, it set up the expectation that this would be the last TNG film.
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Comments»
The new enterprise looks like The enterprise E.
oh it seems just like yesterday….
It would be funny if Nemesis outgrosses the new star trek movie
I watched it again after reading all the vitriol directed at it. Not as bad as I remembered, but not the most memorable installment either.
The script is solid, but perhaps its execution didn’t present it in its best light.
I still didn’t find it as heinous as most people say it is.
It’s sad, I can barely remember anything about what Ins and Nem were about. I have the DVDs, perhaps I should go watch them to see how bad they really were.
#3
No.
Teaser much better than trailer inho. I wish they hadn’t larded it with the Data/Lore thing. It was just one moving part too many.
And talk about cheapening the destruction on the Enterprise!
Data’s jump in to space is the coolest thing in the movie.
Also, the inherent nature trumping nurture argument of Picard’s clone being able to outsmart the Federation, despite different parenting, life experience and training is just a total head-scratcher. Too bad, because the writer cashed in his GLADIATOR chips to take this assignment and ended up getting flamed.
Despite failing with Insurrection, I think Frakes should have been given the director’s chair on Nemesis. It’s just a damn shame.
Absolutely abysmal movie, horrid pacing, character moments & story. I really really wish this movie never existed. Picard running around with his dune buggy was complete senseless moment, I could go on & on.
Perfect example of a cool trailer and a stinker movie. Let’s keep this in mind this weekend…
Teaser was pretty good…. gave a lot of hope.
Everyone seemed to be coasting along (acting wise)… Sirtis was the only one that I thought really earned her paycheck!
LOVE the battles. Enterprise E kicks ass.
I actually found Nemesis quite watchable. It felt like a movie rather than an extended TV episode at least, and it didn’t bore me. It was just one of those movies where afterwards it hits you that you just watched something kinda lame.
My big beef with the TNG movies was the overconcentration on Picard and Data, not least the need to give Data those noteworthy lines that Spiner always signposted with a pause (the cringeworthy Lock And Load line from Insurrection springs to mind here). I just never personally found Data that engaging a character; fine as part of the ensemble but I never understood why he was particularly a “star”. And of course the TNG movies always wrestled with what to do with Riker when they’d decided to give Picard action stuff to do.
The worst thing about it for me though was it completely destroyed the Picard character as being worthy of any admiration whatsoever. When he collapsed in a wreck at the end, leading to Data’s demise, then, with a devastated ship (presumably awash with casualties) he just stumped off the bridge for some being-with-himself time, it seemed that yes, this had to be the last movie because they’d destroyed their lead character. All I could wonder was when this useless captain was going to face a court martial for his ineptitude and derogation of duty.
Bad script.
Oh, it also had me wondering again at that perennial Trek problem; we know what the Bridge Crew are doing during this exciting crisis. What are the other hundreds of crew doing? Playing scrabble? Watching excitedly through the windows? What are they up to?
What about the horrible fight with Riker and the ‘henchman’ perfect example of how not to stage a fight and lose any sense of danger or excitement..one of many examples..
#9
I definitely agree. Whenever I see the deleted scenes from the film, I think that those were the types of character moments missing from the final cut of the film. They were there in the script and they were even filmed, but it was that bastard Stuart Baird who cut them out cause he wanted to make an action flick. The deleted scene with Picard and Data after the wedding was especially nice.
Hopefully the new film can find a could balance between action and character.
This is the first Star Trek trailer that really failed to get me excited for the movie itself.
The whole thing just looked dull and dreary and visually uninteresting, and looked less like an “event” than just another routine mission for the Enterprise crew– which, no surprise, is exactly what the movie itself felt like.
Thank god Abrams is finally bringing that “event” aspect back to Trek with his movie.
OH and the bad guys ship…OMG completely stupid design, like it was drawn by a kid?!? Waaaaaaay over powered it has a thousand photon launchers and a million lasers *Weeeeeeee* (in kids voice) STUPID STUPID STUPID
I always thought this movie might have been better if some of the deleted scenes were left in. IMO, would have added more congruity. But, oh well, the movie was long enough as it is……
#14
From what I heard, Picard was more stoic and, well, Picard-like about it in the script. It was apparently something Stuart Baird changed last minute and Patrick Stewart hated it.
Part of the reason people are so derisive about star trek, is there is too much expectation; people have a lot invested in the movies and shows. This zealot investment breeds disappointment. Most of the movies are at least as good as a decant episode—I mean it would be nice of them to ditch the time travel narrative, or just rename the franchise Time Trek. I remember hating Nemesis, then re-watching it and wondering why I hated it, so passionately. Even if Abrams move is good, Trek fans will not embrace it. Here is hoping that the general public watches and likes it. Though, maybe some things are better left dead. I hope this movie doesn’t become a symbol of the times, vein bailouts.
You know what I found was bad in this movie? The ENTERPRISE references! All the phasers in the movie have the same ammunition red power cell that the crew of the NX Enterprise use. What was wrong with just clicking a button and having it go ‘vroom’ like in First Contact?
Doesn’t help the fact that when Picard grabs his phaser rifle that they use a stock “cocking gun” sound as well.
It’s been stated by a lot of people involved in this film that poor choices were made in the direction and editing of this film. I also fault a part of the writing, specifically the “mandatory” Data sub-plot(in every TNG movie). The whole B4 thing is superfluous and seems a little contrived. At the time, I thought it would have been cool to use Lore instead…without all the dune buggy stuff. Also, if this was to be the “final voyage” of this crew, where’s the ensemble cast?
IMHO, not a great film, but not as bad as most people claim. I give it a “B-.”
I’ll alwaya remember being at convention here in Michigan and when Richard Arnold screened this trailer the crowd booed. Then they seemed more excoted to talk about Smallville of all things instead of Trek. And this was at a Trek convention. A sad sign of the state of fandom at that moment.
I still dug this movie. hell no its not perfect but I still like a LOT more then Generations or Insurrection. Went to the 1st show opening day and the woman sitting in front me cried and cried HARD when Data died. I’ll admit, I had a lump in my throat too….
What I didn’t like about the TNG movies is that they are all about Data. Generations’ plot hinges on Data’s emotion chip. Likewise First Contact. Insurrection kicks off with Data going haywire. And Nemesis is yet another chase for a Soong-type android, and Data’s swan song.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Data as a character. “Measure of a Man” is one of my top favorite episodes. It just seemed weak to me that each movie had to hinge a great amount on some aspect of his android-ness. One movie would have been fine, and they should have done more to develop the other characters in others.
You could argue that the TOS movies were all about Spock, but there was some serious development of the other characters as well. Scotty heads up engineering on Excelsior, Checkov first officer of Reliant, Sulu captain of Excelsior, Uhura and her transporter station post in STIII. They and others had vital roles to play in the development of the plots of those movies, but in the TNG movies, the other characters just sort of did their regular jobs, including Geordie’s regular job of getting captured so his visor could be used to spy on the Enterprise.
Don’t get me started on how they stopped even justifying Worf’s presence on the Enterprise, the one character who had actually moved on.
I sometimes wonder if Patrick Stewart had played his own clone as opposed to Tom Hardy. Would the film have worked better? Food for thought.
Things that make me go urggh…!
Data’s space jump
That SUV car
The crash (a starship capable of the stresses of warping space crumples up like paper at a few mph??!!)
The casting
The direction
etc…..
I had alot of fun working on this movie.
The TNG cast were a great group and it was a pleasure to have a front row seat with them.
But they wouldn’t let any of us go over to the Enterprise sets – that would have been neat.
I think the most horrid thing about Nemesis is that the crew didn’t get a proper send-off.
Riker’s move to the Titan was long expected, but Data’s death and replacement by B4, and Picard left in limbo sucked.
“All Good Things” reigns as the best TNG film.
Such a missed opportunity. I can’t even watch this when it comes on TV. If it weren’t for the effects being halfway decent, this would fall below Trek V for me.
Imagine how much better this would have been if B-4 had been Lore? If he had been deliberately working with the Remans and there was a *true* showdown between brothers? If Data had retained his emotion chip from FC and actually, I don’t know, EVOLVED as a character? If Riker had been promoted to the Titan B4 (har har) the encounter on Romulus, and then came to Picard’s rescue during the climactic battle with the Remans? If Crusher or LaForge had actually been given *something* to do? If Troi hadn’t merely been used as a galactic divining rod/Ouija board? If Worf hadn’t been shoehorned into the plot just because? If the Remans hadn’t looked like poor versions of Count Orlok? If there had been a real sense of closure? If they’d had some real guts and killed Data permanently instead of going for the poor man’s Katra trick? It’s like watching a succession of missed opportunities and calling it a movie.
I can watch this movie but the plot and the acting was definitely phoned in….
#26 Yes. Stewart would have been MUCH better in a dual role as Shinzon.
Of course, having Sela as his “sponsor” would also have made sense.
Having both of them the result of Romulan genetic engineering would have tied up a lot of loose ends.
Further, they could have found a way to have Nimoy in it…. and if only Vreenak had a brother!
Now if Shinzon played by Stewart and Sela had a son… and his name was Nero… then wouldn’t that have worked out well….
#26, YES, it would have worked better. I have been saying this since the movie was released. In fact, the first time through the story I was so confused that I didn’t really understand the whole clone thing at first. Even though they specifically say it in the film, LOL. However, if they didn’t edit it correctly, it would have been a total failur and a little corny, but the potential was there.
#30, You care completely right, this film totally ignored the Lore story line. I mean I know Lore is supposively “dead”, but there’s been worse storylines than bringing Lore back. I mean WTF is a B4.
Generations is still my fav TNG movie. This falls as my 2nd fav. Best part of the movie was the battle sequence at the end. 1st 15 min of First Contact is the only part worth watching. Insurrection was a total failure.
@29
I think that is the one thing that I really didn’t like about Nemesis: it didn’t feel like we got any closure. In Star Trek VI’s final moments, even though they took the Enterprise out for one more spin, you knew that you had just seen the last cinematic adventure of the original series crew. It tugged at the heartstrings, it was bittersweet, and it was a proper way to say goodbye to a group of legendary characters.
Nemesis didn’t have that. Data was dead, they said their goodbyes, Picard had a heart-to-cybernetic-heart talk with B4, and Riker went on to his new command. That’s it? That’s all we get for the Next Generation crew’s final adventure on the big screen? It’s not like they didn’t know Nemesis would be the last movie; that’s how the film was marketed.
A tragically lost opportunity, all in all.
BEST MOVIE EVER!
PERFECT ACTING
PERFECT SFX
PERFECT! PERFECT! PERFECT!
HOW A MOVIE SHOULD BE MADE!
THOUGHT PROVOKING
A MASTERPIECE!
WILL MAKE YOU THINK ABOUT THE WORLD DIFFERENTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
#14 well said. well said.
#34
Not only that, they don’t even mention Lore. They almost act as though this is the first time they’ve found a replica of Data. At the very least, there should have been some anguish (or the android equivalent) from Data about not wanting B4 to turn out like Lore did. Again, just another missed opportunity to have made this movie really mean something to fans (since apparently they were the only ones in the theater anyway).
The Enterprise A and E were best hands down.
C sucked.
B was blah
NCC-1701 from TOS sucked cause of the shield on the engine
and Bizzaro NCC-1701 from Star Trek 90210 just looks like Rachel Ray dumped all the previous enterprise models into a bowl, stirred it and said YUMMO we have a starship…BTW why the heck does the new enterprise look like something from the 24th century? It suppose to look like a constitution class dang it!
I like Nemesis, except for that whole B-4 subplot that I never felt really fit in this movie. The whole planet dunebuggy ride was just ridiculous. They should have cut those out and put in the deleted scenes. If they needed another Soong android perhaps reviving Lore somehow would have indeed been better. Well it’s all behind us now but I think this was easily better than Generations or Insurrection.
Oh, and I wasn’t at all inspired by the teaser trailer. All the lines used in it sounded to be delivered while the actors were sleeping. I’ll never forget seeing that and wondering what I was supposed to be excited about if the characters were not.
I liked Nemesis…
…for me to poop on!
Kidding aside, it was a decent film except for most of the plot.
I was really hoping for the post-ending credits outtakes of the Betazed wedding ceremony scene.
b4=Corky from life goes on.
#39 well said. This was a cheap combo of TWOK & ST VI. Hmm…ship that can fire while cloaked + vendictive psycho with a ship in a nebula = NEMESIS. lol
One thing i never understood about Data – maybe someone can help…
In TOS ‘What are Little Girls Made Of?’ & ‘I, Mudd’ – android technology had advanced to the point that they were indistinguishable from real humans. Why then did Data look so… “androidish”???
(I am a much bigger TOS fan than anything else, so maybe there was some expalantion of Dr. Soong having a reason to make Data look less human that i just simpy missed.)
#30 – YES YES YES! Riker coming to the rescue in the Titan would have been excellent! But I guess they couldn’t afford another starship after they blew their wad on that crappy Simi-, Schimi-tard, or whatever.
I wondered when this trailer would show up.
Never could figure out this one. It felt wrong from beginning to end. Like Star Trek V, the idea was interesting but poorly executed.
If its any consolation to those already upset about Trek XI, bear in mind the series always manages to recover from these occasional misfires. There has to be the odd “Spock’s Brain” episode in any series.
As I recall, many Trek fans were (and continue to be) critical of TMP. I maintain that the series could not have rebounded as it did without TMP.
I like the idea of revisiting the theme of an imperfect Kirk. The fact that the story takes place in a universe that is both familiar yet markedly different than traditional Trek may serve to enhance the way in which we can better understand the depth of the characters and their relationships. We need to break through two dimensional perceptions to recognize and appreciate the history, personal strengths and flaws that define character.
In the end, writers, actors and producers have to take risks with characters for the story to engage its audience and the series to evolve. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. Nemesis didn’t for me, but I still respect and appreciate the characters. Hopefully Trek XI will hit the mark, but I am encouraged to see that it has been approached courageously, rather than pandering to those that fear change.
#45
Soong did make at least one adroid that was indistinguisable from a human – Joanna Soong, his late wife. He essentially transferred her conciousness into an android body (similar to several TOS plotlines). It seemed Data was something of an intermediate design, and Soong wasn’t finished perfecting his designs before he died. Plus, his attempt at giving androids genuine ‘feelings’ went wrong with Lore, so Data was created without them to avoid the pitfalls of Lore. Then later, he developed the emotion chip that would presumably be stable in Data.
Of course, the real reason was that Rodenberry and others wanted Data to be easily recognized as ‘alien’ or ‘different’ from the standard crew. It was a big visual clue that effectively informed the audience without a lot of expository dialogue.
I’m one of few Trek fans that actually liked this film, but to this day it still bothers me that there was absolutely no mention of Lore or why Worf was all of a sudden no longer an ambassador.
A pale and inferior remake of The Wrath of Khan. Even ST5 is better.
…and the adventure continues….
The entire romulan senate wiped out by a lame bomb-like device. My suspension of disbelief showed some cracks. You see, TNG movies are full of this kind of cheesy premises that I was never able to accept.
#46
I agree, the Reman ship looked like some sort of combat shuttle gone wrong. After bringing us intriguing ship designs like those of the Cardassians, The Breen, The Dominion, etc., you’d think they could have offered up something better.
Of course, I don’t want to get started on how bad the ship interiors were in this film. The Scimitar corridors reminded me of that Dr Who skit where they just run down a succesion of identical corridors for five minutes. It felt like they built those things in my high school gymnasium.
51.
Thank you for wording what I couldnt word myself! TNG movies are so 90’s!
#50
Bad plot points, bottemless pits and wasted opportunities aside, Star Trek V is still worse. At the very least, this thing is watchable for the special effects. Trek V doesn’t even have that.
With “Nemesis,” Trek fans finally got an answer to the question, “Where is the bottom?”
The Enterprise E and The Scimitar, my FAVORITE Starfleet and Alien vessel! The battle scene rocked. The rest of the movie was bleh.
Great trailers.
Dull movie. Except for the parts that were stupid. Sorry, but this one needed a LOT of work and it didn’t get it. Baird should never direct anything again. You get the feeling of a director talking to you all through the film and you just want to say: “I got it. You also took 8th grade English Lit. You also know about foil characters, irony, and tragic flaws.” Problem is, what’s artsy is all so obvious it’s boring. The coolest thing is the E ramming the Scimitar… and that’s just the dumbest maneuver ever. Oh sorry; second dumbest. The dumbest is building a gigantic ship with a super weapon that takes four hours to deploy and blows up when you pee into the power stream.
Good CGI though. The new Romulan ships were way cooler than the Lion Fish Scimitar. (Looks like it escaped from Picard’s tank — was that more symbolism?)
“The dumbest is building a gigantic ship with a super weapon that takes four hours to deploy and blows up when you pee into the power stream.”
Best. Comment. Ever.
#55
Indeed. And apparently it’s a pit roughly 30 decks below the lowest level of the ship. They must have used some Timelord technology to hide that thing inside hull of the Enterprise-E.
I liked Nemesis, it rivals First Contact as my favorite TNG movie. Yes, there were some minor contrivances like B4, and I never thought about it, but reviving Lore would have made more sense. I thought it was a terrific action movie with that terrific philosophical bit thrown in to chew on as you leave the theatre. The dune buggy scene was awesome, (think about it, tire tracks are less Prime Directive violating than flying-saucer like suttle going all over the place) and it’s much more interesting than beaming down. All in all a very good movie. Not my favorite but fun.
Seriously though, how on earth did they settle on that scene with Riker kicking the Viceroy down the bottomless pit? I mean, I know this movie mined nearly ever Trek before it, but I’d love to hear the meeting where someone goes ‘Hey, we should have Riker kick the Viceroy into a pit a la The Search For Spock!.’ ‘Didn’t they have a huge volcano and a decaying planet to make that work?’ ‘Yeah, but why don’t we just make a bottomless pit in the Enterprise? You know, one that makes no sense, designwise? Plus, we could put it on the very lowest deck, and make sure we make lots of reference to that fact in dialogue.’ ‘Genius! THE MOVIE IS SAVED!’
I have always been at a loss to understand why everyone wants to spit all over this one. Sure, it’s not WOK, TUC, or even FC. But it certainly is better than TFF, TVH, I and G.
The B-4 stuff was indeed lame. It would have been more palateable had they not done the stupid “Data’s evil twin” stuff on TNG already. Doing it yet again was a tiresome bore.
And the entire Argo stuff was pretty dumb and made no sense.
But once they got to Romulus, the film was cool and very watchable.
I guess we were supposed to feel bad when Data “died”. But I was never that attached to that character. I was more affected when the Enterprise blew up in TSFS than when Data bit it.
the thing that frustrated me to no end was the fact that data was supposed to be killed off due to Brent Spiners age, yet they kept him alive through another android that he plays…seriously…wtf?
I liked Nemesis, a different director would have made all the difference as well as somehow tying Sela to Shinzhon.
I defended this film a hundred times before and i’ll go on defending it.
This is not a bad film. It’s not a bad Trek film.
i like this movie. i like much better than Insurrection.
I know this is a seemingly very unpopular thought around here….but it just makes me want one more TNG film. Get the Titan involved. Get Q involved. And get peace with th Romulans involved.
And more importantly than all of that….bring some closure the “Picard wants a real family/children” arc that we watched for so many years and has never been completed. It’s just hanging out there.
The tagline says that a Generations final journey BEGINS. Let’s finish that journey with a spectacular send off.
go ahead. i’m prepared to hear what a dumb idea it is.
#57: I second #58. I was going to add a comment, but now I’m too busy laughing.
Gary – 26
seemingly that was the original idea!
I sometimes wonder if Patrick Stewart had played his own clone as opposed to Tom Hardy. Would the film have worked better? Food for thought.
Worst Star Trek movie EVER. Yes, worse than Insurrection.
by the way…nice touch with the square pic at the top. The half-way morph screen capture between shinzon and picard looks cool.
#36…technically nemesis wasnt planned to be the final film…it was my understanding the plan was to make a sequel that would be an integration of characters from various series….but yea…sigh….nemesis was the hair in the drain for the old guard…
so many alternate possibilities…but thank you #32…that does get one thinking…what if nero IS shinzon and sela’s son???
on another topic why did we see no female remans in nemesis??? are remans one-gendered, reproducing asexually?
also yes the deleted scenes wouldve made nemesis better, but this new film’s budget also wouldve helped lol
The Scimitar was waaaay too powerful in my opinion. Taking out the Enterprise’s shields after only ONE torpedo hit? Rendering them with only impulse power? God! John Logan, you’re a great writer (co-writer Gladiator and writer of The Aviator) but seriously, you can’t write Trek.
I liked nemises to a point. The Action of the Big E was great and i sometimes only Watch nemises for that only. The story was Dull and well Been there and done that so many times with the Clone thing. The story was just to soft and to used. The action was great and the Fx was solod. But in trek You need a Solod Story and that was Missing. On the new Movie in May Im sure the Fx Will be fantastic. But it has to have a solis Story or it will go the Way Of Nemises and be an End to Trek. I hope it has a Great and Solid Story as thats Whats Trek Is all About.
- 62. ML31 – November 13, 2008
“I have always been at a loss to understand why everyone wants to spit all over this one. Sure, it’s not WOK, TUC, or even FC. But it certainly is better than TFF, TVH, I and G.”
Better than TVH? I don’t think so. The characters were ‘out of character’ in Nemesis. The voyage home was an excellent film that managed to entertain the masses without selling out. It was still Star Trek. I don’t know what Nemesis was. Liked the trailers though.
#69
Garen, liking Nemesis doesn’t make you a bad guy. I just think a lot of us fail to see what there is to like.
And sadly, this was it for TNG. Done. Kaput. Ain’t happenin’. I loved TNG, but their movies really ended any chance of continuing the adventure. We have a new TOS-based franchise now, and that’s just how it is. Frankly, I’m more comfortable with that than seeing TNG raked over the coals in yet another feature.
All it needed was a Joystick. Then it’s failure would have been complete!
#73
Agreed. How could the most popular Trek movie be considered worse than Nemesis?
Yikes!!!!!!!!!! Terrib……………. Oh forget it
You know, honestly, I really, truly enjoyed this movie. I liked the plot, the storyline… everything! I thought it was absolutely fantastic. Now, I understand, to each his own, but I honestly think it was one of the best Star Trek movies.
It reminded me a bit of “The Wrath of Khan”, but I still found this one highly enjoyable… Aside from the fact that the ending felt really… rushed. Like they didn’t drag it out enough. Made me sad that Data died at the end; he was certainly my favourite of the TNG characters. :3
And, that’s my opinion!
Ok. I can’t Type Sometimes. I kept wanting to say Solid and kept Misspelling it. I guess i have to check into th Agoniser Booth.
I do think there are parallels to be drawn between Nemesis and The Final Frontier – in that they both essentially spit in the face of their respective series’ fans. Characters are way off, huge plot holes and truly unsatisfying resolutions.
#78 Good Job Christine!
i’m glad to see someone so proudly declaring their love for this film.
I’m jealous of your ability to do that.
I’ve been scoffed at enough in the past…that now i sorta downplay my positive feelings for the film.
I now proudly join you! “absolutely fantastic!”
The combat scenes in this movie are well done and exciting, I liked them. But, you see, a lot of fans are bashing JJ’s trek for being too action oriented, and TMP is hated for being the motion-less picture… there are many contradictions in what fans expect about the balance between action-plot. Maybe we are very hard to please :)
#82 Paulaner…
“Maybe we are very hard to please ”
LOL, Ya think?
My reaction to that… YES YES Lore is back, Lore is in it :D :D :D can’t wait admittedly I don’t watch trailers for films I wanna watch with sound so I had no I had no idea who that bold bloke was ment to be but Romulans are in it so that must mean the return of Sela and the covent and sinister Tal’Shiar
My Reaction to the movie… The Romulans cloned Picard why? Shinzon want to kill humans why? Argo why? Troy mindrape why? B4 WHY? Nemesis why o why?
This film is a blot on the excellence of TNG and is not IMO a fitting end to TNG and certainly not the grand farewell that TOS got in TUC after the appaulling TFF. I must say I think a large part of my anger for XI is that the TNG story is soo unfinished and that the TNG story was disregarded in favour of action likewise it seem with XI TOS is getting same superficial treatment
Nemesis was not that bad of a movie, really.
The thing is, seeing Data sacrifice himself should have been an emotionally powerful moment.
Instead, I felt nothing. Absolutely nothing at that point.
And that sums up the problem with the movie.
The elements seem correct in a general sense, and the battle at the end had some great stuff, even if the lighting on the ships themselves during the sequence did not match up at all with the environment, the movie as a whole fell somewhat flat emotionally.
When I saw some of the deleted scenes, I though they should never have been cut. They worked well, and they kept the human touch the movie needed.
As it was, the emotional impact was not there as it should have been.
Visually, when we saw the ships, the lighting was very flat, like someone had a single, white directional light, loaded the models into the scene, then clicked “Render”.
Previous movies, the ambient light of the environment was present on the ships, making for a more believable image to the eye.
Flaws aside, I enjoyed it as an adventure romp, and there were a lot of things I liked, certainly the Remans and the new Romulan designs, such as the Senate chamber and the new Romulan Warbirds.
#55. Yes. Exactly.
I actually loved the teaser trailer…it performed its function perfectly: It left me wanting more. Now, in the actual movie, if they would have taken this route instead of the Patrick Stewart-only route/cheesy Hollywood-hack director-blockbuster route, it would have been MUCH better.
Like, why was B4 so boring and useless? It was ridiculous. Maybe it was Brent Spiner’s limitations (he’s getting pretty old afterall), so he couldn’t play an active (spry, if you will) villian, but if that’s the case, then they should have just cut it.
The dunebuggey scene was embarrassingly ridiculous.
I like the actor who played Schinzon, but he didn’t look like Stewart AT ALL, thus ridiculous.
I feel bad for all the “supporting” cast (aka, everyone except Picard) because they got the shaft in this movie — nothing more than token roles (other than Data/B4) — and not a real sendoff. It was actually a bit offensive. Stuart Baird should be left out in the middle of Afghanistan to make movies for the Taliban.
So, to wrap up: teaser good, movie sucked, Baird blows, let’s hope Abrams can bring these guys back somehow, somewhere.
That is one weird image headlining the news. Have you changed it? I seem to remember a different one when I visited earlier.
Stuart Baird is a great editor, but not a great director. And he was absolutely the wrong choice to direct a Star Trek feature. He does not understand Star Trek and this movie did not feel like Star Trek. I can’t exactly explain why, but I think it is my least favorite of the Star Trek features.
One pet peeve is the dune buggy sequence. In all of Star Trek’s previous films and TV episodes, I do not recall ever seeing Federation technology with wheels. I thought it might even be one of those “writer’s bible” rules… On Star Trek, no paper (except as antique books) and no wheeled vehicles (except as props on primitive planets and holodeck simulations).
And they missed a great opportunity with B4. B4 should have been done with CGI, appearing to be like Data yet more primitive and artificial looking. Brent Spiner could have voiced the part, and even acted the part using motion capture. Then, when Data dies, he actually lives on his download to B4 (truly forever young) and slowly emerges in a future feature films. The actual ending even hinted at this possibility, but Spiner would have been too old to keep playing ageless Data forever.
But those are just minor reason annoyances. I can’t really say why I didn’t like this movie. The overall story was fine. The action sequences look good. The special effects were well done. It’s one of those times when you don’t like something but cannot give definitive reasons.
There are 3 things that I didn’t like about this movie.
#1 The Romulans weren’t even speaking “Romulan,” they spoke english.
Every other incarnation of Star Trek had the “aliens” speaking in their native language when they’re conversing amongst themselves. TMP, TSFS & TUC had Klingons speaking “klingon”, the TWOK had Saavik and Spock speaking vulcan, even during the tv series TNG, DS9, and Enterprise all had the “aliens” speaking their own native language at one point or another.
#2 Data’s retarded brother B4….’nuff said.
#3 The whole “I am you, You are me” argument that they constantly pushed throughout the movie, was pretty weak. I’ve heard far better interpretations of this argument from better pieces of work. And I heard better arguments that render that entire “I am you, you are me” argument total B.S.
Those three things killed the movie for me.
#85. “As it was, the emotional impact was not there as it should have been.”
…I will agree with you there. Now, as I have said, I did think it was really good, but that… that kind of is what made Nemesis not-as-fantastic-as-it-could-have-been. (Oh!! So many dashes! xP) I think with a few tweaks, a deleted scene here, an added scene there, maybe Nemesis would be getting a few more.. positive comments.
#86. “The dunebuggey scene was embarrassingly ridiculous. ”
…It was. I saw that, and kind of went.. “Whaa…?!” It could’ve been done without.
I don’t care what anyone else thinks about this movie, I loved it. B4 was the only thing wrong with this movie, it was a great way to see off the TNG crew and I thought it should not only appeal to a trek fanbase but also to a non trek fanbase which I thought was a welcome change from some of the previous stuff in TNG.
Good trailer. Average movie.
I’m with #91! I liked Nemesis, even though the majority of the population keeps slamming it down as a dismal failure to the TNG films. I also thought it did well enough for Paramount to make another TNG-era film, whether it’d be with TNG cast, or the DS9 or VOY cast or a mixture of all three. I guess I was wrong :-(
Ok, maybe also with #86 about the dune buggy scene :-/
RE: article icon change
yes the article went up with the icon for FC at first but was changed to the morph image of Shinzon/Picard
Nemesis Poll!
there is a new poll on if you thought the Trek film series was over after NEM. My vote was that I didnt expect a new film for at least a decade.
Yes, I agree with that other person posting. Data always seemed so primitive compared to TOS androids.
Well, I am thankful that this film finally killed the rubbish TNG franchise. Hopefully, we will never see another TNG film or television episode made after this, the final installment of four of the worst science fiction films of all time.
Having said that, it was a step in the right direction after its abysmal predecessors, yet B4 was a contrived plot point, the dune buggy was clearly designed to just sell computer games and the Shinzon idea was poorly executed. The whole plan to clone Picard was utterly ludicrous and, if Shinzon wanted revenge, why destroy Earth? The super-weapon was nowhere near as interesting as the Genesis device. This one was “just” another nuclear bomb.
A really interesting psychological study would have explored the concept of goodness. Was Shinzon bad due to his upbringing? To what extent is genetics involved?
His limited lifespan was an ill-conceived homage to Blade Runner, whilst the concept of ramming another ship was a poorly executed copy of a similar scene from Blake’s 7.
If only the film had the guts to kill Data, making his journey to human-likeness complete (by preparing to lay down his life for his friends) some of this story could have been resurrected. As it is, this is just another piece of childish, self-indulgent garbage, like all the TNG films.
Hopefully, Abrams will wipe the slate clean and start again. This “canon” is not worth preserving. Jettison it all and write some good space adventures with a bit more thought and heart and a much more grown-up attitude, please, Mr Abrams and friends.
I never thought we’d get a new Trek series after Nemesis bombed.
I hear originally they were going to make a sequel to “Star Trek: Nemesis”
… hence the tagline “A Generations final journey begins…” remember this: FINAL JOURNEY BEGINS!
To me this means that they were kinda beginning a storyline that wouldn’t necessarily end with this film, and I’m sure I read SOMEWHERE that they were definatly considering a sequel, but then NEM bombed and I believe all those plans were abandoned.
Truly a case of the trailers being far superior to the movie itself.
Nemesis looks cool. It’s well shot. The production design is good. I always like the Romulans, so it’s nice to have a Star Trek film not about Klingons for once. But it’s ultimately a wasted opportunity. You can see that there are elements of a much better story in the film that appear to be truncated. Plus there’s just a lot of ‘dumb’ moments.
- The Agro buggy sequence. Why?
- B4. *Sigh*
- Wesley! What’s he been up to since the Traveler?
- We finally get to see the Remans! Cool! Now why not show them and Shinzon taking over Romulus?
- The Shinzon/Troi thing was awkward.
- Wasn’t Worf an ambassador at this point?
- We don’t get to see Riker transition into his role as captain of the Titan.
- The final battle is just plain dumb. You run out of weapons (how exactly?) so you ram the ship into your enemy. What should you do next? Shinzon’s after Picard, so Picard decides to beam over to Shinzon’s ship alone. REALLY? Basic tactics apply here. You’ve rammed your enemy’s ship! Arm your people and send over a boarding party! Overtake the enemy vessel!
- The Riker/Viceroy fight: The Viceroy plummets into a bottomless abyss in a Jefferies Tube. I could understand if they were in a part of the Enterprise that was damaged from the ship-to-ship collision, with the Viceroy falling through exposed decks, through a forcefield and out into space. Not this. Where do they keep a bottomless chasm on a starship?
Anyway… visually impressive, but in the end it’s pretty dumb.
I agree with the critics here.. Tom hardy does not even closely resemble patrick stewart, so the clone thing was very forced. I also felt nothing when data died..i should have felt sad….
BTW I tried to watch insurrection eariler today and I shut it off after the scene where the crew finds the holodeck ship. I did find data’s humor out of charactor though, especially the missing memory engrams joke.
As for ending the TNG films, THe cast deserved alot better.
Just read this (text is NSFW) and understand:
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html
Does anyone know, Is the trailer only showing on the big screen in the USA??
Re #96: Hear him, hear him! Although I would not say that they were all rubbish, the TNG film series is not at all missed, lacking both the intimate/whimsical character moments that you can afford in television and the impressive spectacle that one expects from contemporary sci-fi.
There’s really no excuse for these failings in Nemesis. For an example of a modestly budgeted space film that looks amazing and is nuanced in its character portrayals, consider Danny Boyle’s “Sunshine.”
I’ve trashed this movie so many times on previous posts I think I’ll try to name the things I *did* like about it (the list will be short).
1.) Bob Ringwood’s costumes, particularly the Reman uniforms. Always loved Ringwood’s work (he did awesome costumes for David Lynch’s Dune and Tim Burton’s Batman movies). Always wanted him to take a stab at Trek. His Romulan uniforms are an improvement over the TV versions, too.
2.) Reman make-up. People may hate the idea of the Remans in general but the makeup design was pretty neat. Especially on…
3.) Ron Perlman as the Viceroy. Wish he’d been cast earlier in a different Trek film. Just glad he finally did one.
And that is it. The Romulan Senate chambers looked kinda cool (but were ridiculously small). I pretty much hated every single other thing about this movie. Especially the weak, predictable, hole-ridden script.
Ok, had to write what I see as an issue that no one else is saying. With the NEW MOVIE coming out and the NEW ENTERPRISE 1701 setting precedence, we see a NEW BEGINNING. SO, wouldn’t successor ships look different now that we know what ship was to begin the line? I mean, take the NEW 1701. It will go on to be upgraded to a new TMP 1701/A. Then on and on and so forth. Makes since to me and I’m all for it. Can you imagine TNG upgraded?
The movie was decent to go along with a large bucket of popcorn, but extra butter would of been better.
I really enjoyed the first three TNG films, including Generations and Insurrection (which was kind of like a TNG Xmas special).
When I saw the teaser for Nemesis, it gave me goosebumps! I was so excited. “In darkness, there is strength…” Great line! Too bad it’s not in the movie. Also not in the movie: a good movie.
i still havent forgiven this film for the ultimate romulan bait and switch. When they promoted it they heavily featured the Romulans and I was so happy at this prospect, finally no Klingons in a Trek film!! Horray! Do we get Romulans? No not really…oh sure theres some scenes with Romulans in it.
Stuart Baird – brilliant editor, but bad choice as a director of a Star Trek film. Listen to the commentary if you dare. He is completely unfamiliar with Star Trek. Does he have to be an expert? No. But frickin Nick Meyers did HIS homework…and look at his results.
The dune buggy scene….well really what else can be said at this point, bad bad…really bad idea…but at least Picard wasnt singing opera while driving it.
I have always enjoyed the space battle scenes though.
It is sad that tng just couldnt pull off their films like we know they could have. First Contact was good, and they were fine in Generations, Insurrection was just not big screen movie material
I like Nemesis a lot. It’s maybe not quintisential Trek, but it kicks some butt as a standalone adventure flick. I’ve noticed that many of my Trek non-fans have found this to be one of the most enjoyable films to watch. The action flows a little faster than in any of the other TNG films, with the exception of First Contact maybe. I think I’ll watch it now.
Obviously I wanted to see a better Movie than Insurrection for TREK# 10
It had to be Bigger, and just Down right Awesome. Finally the Romulans
were put onto the Big Screen, YES!!! I was so sick of Klingons. They actually
Created a Real Villain as well. Interesting but Dangerous. Very cool. for some
time I kinda felt like they should Kill Data off in a Movie too. Not Because I didn’t
like the Character, but because It would’ve been similar to TWOK, and possibly
given us an interesting Story that might continue with a Trek 11. The tone was
Darker, the Threat was scary. My only real Spiel with it is that it just didn’t capture
The EPIC-ness I wanted from it. I wanted to see more of Romulus, More of Their
Society, the People, the World. I liked the way the Klingons were handled in ST6.
and the events had a Very Epic feel. Instead they gave us The Remans, which was
Okay but I always thought they would be just like Romulans. Now They were Vampires.
That’s decent Because as a Cast I guess it’s cool to know they have Bigger warriors
around. The Story focused on Picard, Data, and Shinzon. Perfect now it feels like a
Real movie a not just a bigger episode. People complain About the Dune Buggy, that
sequence wasn’t Soo bad. It’s Better Than Troi Shaving Riker. I really Don’t Understand
what People Hate About this Movie?? Okay maybe the Send off Wasn’t what they had
wanted. It couldn’t be Like The End of “…All good Things” and Data, being Dead and all
But He’s Still not though. If they Did a Next Gen #11 Nemesis wouldn’t have Felt so Bad
For some people. I liked it though. The Next Gen Crew Needed a bloody Nose.
This guy Really Sums up How I feel about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3JaxKHniVQ
This movie finally hammered in the final nail in the coffin of the Trek spinoffs. These characters just were never compelling enough and the cast supporting Patrick Stewart never talented enough to deserve a feature film budget and release. The box office and TV ratings reached enough of a nadir that Paramount scrapped and rethought the entire franchise premise, convincing them to return to the core source material and characters, admitting finally that general audiences don’t care about Klingoon or Romulus political intrigue or clone revenge or who’s going to get promoted en route to the latest wedding reception on Planet 6.
For those of you complaing about Nemesis, why don’t you all petition Paramount to create a directors cut of the film that puts back in all the deleted scenes that gave us the character moments we wanted. Honestly, the movie was decent, but Stuart Baird was directing it as an action film and didn’t want the pace to drag. Had his philosophy been slightly different, I think Nemesis could have been up there with the likes of First Contact and Undiscovered Country. Finally, also petition Paramount to give Shatner a chance to clean up his film and create a new cut with new effects. Final Frontier was all character moments. Action and Special Effects were very mediocre.
#112
With all due respect, while the TNG film outings were admittedly mixed, the cast was infinitely talented. What they deserved was better writing. The very fact that Stewart could actually inject tepid dialogue with such spirit is admirable in and of itself.
This movie was mostly terrible. This was the first Star Trek movie I’ve seen in at theaters, and remember it like it was yesterday.
So trekkies came out of the woodwork to come see this movie…..and so many trekkies hung the heads shame and awkward silence after the end credits rolled.
Nemesis. What a horrendous piece of crap movie. All of the TNG movies are pretty bad, a symptom of the people on charge at the time, but it’s really saying something when a once beloved character finally dies and you find yourself saying “Good riddance.”
THE NEW STAR TREK MOVIE FULL TRAILER IS AWESOME!!!
I’VE SEEN IT, AND IT MAKES STAR TREK FEEL EPIC AND APPEALING TO EVERYONE, NOT JUST TREKKIES. IT HAS A GOOD FEEL ABOUT IT.
#113
I’ve seen the deleted scenes – they won’t help. And TFF is beyond repair. To paraphrase Closettrekker – why should Paramount put up money to polish a turd? To be good, both of these movies would need to be completely reshot and re-plotted.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I for one need Trek. So what if some of the movies aren’t the greatest. You all have to stand by each and every movie or the franchise will be lost. We have to support the new movie, we can’t lose Trek, especially with all the things going on in this world. It brings hope that someday things will be different.
I’d also add that this was the first TREK I didn’t see at the theater. After a lot of hoopla and build-up — I mean, the guy who did GLADIATOR was involved! they were going to “harken back to the spirit of The Wrath of Khan”! battles! action! — the preview just left me kind of flat. I could write a thesis on how you could have done this better, but I digress.
Beyond that, I don’t believe this was necessarily going to be the final TNG outing, but the box office nailed that coffin shut. Regarding an earlier comment, remember that the marketing was done after the film was cut; Paramount let it be known that this was “a generation’s final voyage” kind of crap after they saw it.
Speaking as one who liked INSURRECTION (better than NEMESIS; at least it was like an episode of TNG) and hated GENERATIONS (don’t even get me started), the TNG crew deserved a better send-off. I think they were all just ready to move on, and didn’t push it, like the TOS crew more-or-less did after STV.
#119
“You all have to stand by each and every movie or the franchise will be lost”
No, no, no, and no. I fully support the new movie, but this line of thinking does not work. If a movie is crap, then the TPTB need to know it’s crap.
look in the mirror, see your self.
a mirror universe film between picard and shinzon.
I had never seen those. Really great trailer (and teaser). If only the movie had measured up. I can see those trailers bringing in non-fans. But, I guess my “vision” was flawed.
Great trailer though. Very fast paced.
# 119: Basically you are right. But if a movie is not good enough, it will fail as Nemesis did. There is nothing we loylaists could do about it.
I really didn’t like Nemesis that much (lame story, horrible directing, that Argo crap, B4 *shudder*).
But I’ve seen it FIVE times in theatre just to support the franchise. Didn’t help for Next Gen…It just didn’t translate well to the big screen. FC was the only great Next Gen installment.
That said, I think JJ’s take will be a completely different kind of Trek movie. Young attractive cast, great directing, kick-ass SFX, cool designs (modern and still retro)…the story needs to be great, but even if it’s crap it WILL do much better than Nemesis…
When Nemesis came out, the TNG hype had been gone for more than 5 years…Insurrection didn’t support ist and then they waited far too long with the next movie…there was no mainstream appeal left for Next Gen…DS9, VOY and those messed up first two seasons of ENT had dragged every major interest out of the mainstream by then…
And nobody but the die-hards wanted to see an aging cast of TV actors in a contreived strechted Next Gen episode pretending to be a Trek movie…This one was Berman’s downfall…
After seven years without Trek any on the big screen, 18 years without Kirk & Spock and four years without any new Trek whatsoever, the new movie will do MUCH better…even if it was a pile of crap (which it certainly isn’t!)…
#3
YES!!!!!!
I liked Nemesis. Actually, I liked all of the movies except for V, and it wasn’t too bad. Sometimes good actors and lots of eye candy will make up for other discrepancies…..
#127 : Sorry, wrong thread :))
I strongly urge you to watch and listen to Confused Matthew youtube review of the movie. It’s great at pointing the movie’s strong and weak points (albeit it’s an opinion of a regular viewer, not a trekkie, so don’t count on canon violation related topics)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3JaxKHniVQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pHspoSyDeA
I have only seen this one once.
I rented it.
I don’t care if I ever see it again.
It is Trek in name only.
To me this and ENT are proof of how far removed the series had strayed from GR’s original vision.
Thank you JJ&Co for bringing Trek back to its roots.
Still a better film than Insurection!
As a kid, my first introduction to Star Trek set the bar high: TWOK on VHS!
In the months that followed, I would use my trusty galoob diecast Enterprise D to reenact the battle in the mutara nebula in my room. I would pretend the TNG crew was in the same situation as Kirk and I knew that it would be the coolest thing ever!
Then somebody in 2002 had the same idea for a feature and it SUCKED!
A Generations Final Journey… but it was a whimper not a bang.
One of the things that concerns me about the new Trek film, despite really looking forward to it, is that the writers took inspiration from TWOK much like FC, INS and NEM. While I like TWOK, I think that it is time for a new model of Trek film and that TWOK should no longer be it.
Although, from the recent articles, it seems that the writers have taken only inspiration from TWOK and not based the structure of the film on it as was done with NEM. Hell, even John Logan admits that he originally wanted to make Shinzon the long-lost son of Picard, thus merging Khan and David into one character. In a weird way, they still did.
The trailers are better than the movie.
#26
Yes Hardy did not work for me, Stewart as his clone, or a quality actor
like Ben Kingsley.
The last two films TNG were NOT good enough.
Thank god TOS films did not produce to bad one’s in a row.
Ok I have put alot of time into this and this is how I would have done it:
1. Have Tom Hardy play young Picard (with hair) and as he ages, Stewart steps in and plays his evil clone.
2. Replace Donatra with Seela.
3. Have Lore instead of B4, and have him found by the Remans and sent to the Enterprise, then have him destroyed in battle with data (brothers, opposites end together)
4. Close the Movie with the wedding the cast together one last time, then the Titan going to Warp as Picard watches from his ready room window, pan out to the Big E entering space dock.
5. Cut out the dune buggy race, and that entire planet based part of the movie.
6. Don’t have earth as the ultimate target, have the target as the Enterprise itself and only! more than once Earth has been the target it’s nearly as boring as time travel! Yikes
7. When the bridges gets shot up have the lights go out! I mean come one! The ship is in bits and the bridge is bright and happy! Go back to FC, a darkened bridge = bad!
8. Give the ships real scale! None of the ships struck me as truly huge, even the big E seemed small when compared to FC. And Schzon’s ship did not appear as big as it was meant to be.
Alot of this is small cosmetic things, and slight script reworks, but would have made the movie a winner. And yes I have spent alot of time writing and directing theatre and small films. One thing this film needed was a Gladiator style intro to set the film up, or even a prologue showing the Remans in a small fight with the Dominion and finding Lore in the fight. Then have the clone of Picard be informed that the Enterprise is the Flagship for the sector, that way most of the storyline is clearly linked.
…Nemesis was hindered by two problems:
1) A director who had no business directing material he didn’t care for and/or understand. It’s a known fact Stuart Baird was not a Trek fan, nor was he really interested in anything other than collecting a paycheck.
2) Both Patrick Stuart and Brent Spiner wanted out of their roles for good, so they helped Baird come up with a script that was executed poorly, with everything that could have made it work either left in the Circular File or on the cutting room floor.
…In short, it was sabotaged from the inside, and Paranoidmount should have had enough common sense to prevent it from happening in the first place.
136. OM – November 13, 2008 – And I’m with you, Baird = BAD. The Directors job should have gone to Frakes, Levar Burton or Leonard Nimoy from the Trek franchise, or Robert Wise if he was willing. Baird is an editor and should never have been allowed near the Directors chair.
I always felt that having a non-trek fan/ or only a passing fan as the writer and a Trek fan as the director was the best way to go. The two compliment each other and can keep each other grounded.
I dug the movie. For me it was like a transition movie. I had hoped it would set up a movie where you would have Picard, Riker, Sisco, and Janeway working together in some way. I always saw the Star Trek movies as longer, bigger budget episodes. Why do so many people follow the herd with opinions? It was dark but not horrid, geez.
NEMESIS was a mess- so many derivative moments, so few compelling character scens and one plot device after another robbed this movie of any legitimate dramatic tension. I knew this movie was a failure when I was glad that Data died– because I knew that TNG was done too; a series that I once adored greatly had become a parody of itself.
Look, as Star Trek fans, I think its reasonable to like any Trek material because, like pizza, it’s still tasty no matter how bad the product. But I think the filmmakers really put forth a lazy effort with NEMESIS (like INSURRECTION and actually GENERATIONS as well). Paramount wanted to keep cashing in on the franchise and Mr. Berman (who I think gets a bum rap in general) obliged because that’s what Rick Berman does. I think the focus on Data throughout the TNG movies was forced and overwritten. I think the charm of the supporting characters was squandered. Aside from FIRST CONTACT with its “Close Encounters” reprise, TNG never had its footing in the film series. These movies were mostly brainless and lazy.
Jonathan Frakes was in Trek and he barely could direct Insurrection.
#140: But he did a VERY good job on FC!!! I don’t know what went wrong two years later…
@139 – You’ve obviously never had my pizza… and Trek is the same way – not all good, but 90% good.
I can’t condemn Star Trek for one mis-step.
Well, the INS script went through so many changes, it ended up being pretty bland. In the original story, Picard had to kill Data half way through the movie, and then rebuilt him at the end of the story.
@#139
I must agree. :-(
I wouldn’t even know where to begin… Stuart Baird, B-4, Tom Hardy, the script, Stuart Baird, Stuart Baird, Stuart Baird.
This film is a disgrace to a wonderful series. Stuart Baird raped Star Trek and the TNG franchise. It’s tragedy that this was the end to the series. Yes, Generations and Insurrection had their flaws (even though I love parts of Insurrection) but AT LEAST THEY WERE STILL STAR TREK!!! There’s nothing Star Trek about Nemesis. God, I hate it so much and it still makes me so angry when I think about it. I tell you, if I got my hands on that director… :)
@96 Kerr Avon:
“Well, I am thankful that this film finally killed the rubbish TNG franchise. Hopefully, we will never see another TNG film or television episode made after this, the final installment of four of the worst science fiction films of all time.”
So, why do even bother commenting on this?
Funny, that TNG is such rubbish yet it is still the most popular of all Star Trek series…
First Contact is one of the worst sci/fi movies of all time? You gotta be bleeping kidding me… Have you seen Battlefield Earth? Starship Troopers 1,2,3?
You might also be disappointed to know that it has 7.6/10 on IMDb which is a rather good rating…
#14:
“…we know what the Bridge Crew are doing during this exciting crisis. What are the other hundreds of crew doing? Playing scrabble? Watching excitedly through the windows? What are they up to?”
- ROFL
Such a sad way to end my favorite television series of all time. All Good Things takes a dump on this movie in every way. They should have taken some notes.
While I welcome the new movie, in many ways it still hurts me a little bit to know TNG cast will never get the treatment TOS cast did in TUC. It’s sad too because people try to pretend that Picard and his crew were never as recognized as Kirk, Spock and McCoy, but that couldn’t be further from the truth… Especially to the younger generation of Trek fans. I think one final journey would have been accepted after Nemesis.
Stuar Baird not only ruined that film, but also the final Star Trek experience for the TNG cast. Not to mention my final TNG experience. I grew up on TNG and the Enterprise-D will always be my ship, and I was depressed for days after I saw that film. What a waste.
Never did see Nemesis (not even as a rental later on), and this trailer was one of the big reasons why. I have no critique of the film to offer, but if this trailer represents it honestly, it’s awful and not very Star Trek at all. I hope the trailer is misleading, but I’m not going to spend two hours of my life finding out.
#148, I feel the same way you do and in some ways if I knew they were going to end the journey this way, I would have said “Don’t even bother bringing TNG to the big screen”. Of course if they had done that we would have missed out on FC.
I’m just curious, Stuart Baird keeps getting blamed. Can someone specifically name some things that he had done as the director that “killed” this whole thing??????
It’s funny. Watching the trailers again reminds me of how excited I was about this movie before it came out. If you can remove yourself from the perspective of having seen it already, they really do point toward a spectacular movie.
Out of curiosity, does anyone remember all the press interviews that happened before the movie? I recall them being extremely incoherent. The tagline of the film was “A Generation’s Final Journey” and yet, every time they asked the actors and director and Rick Berman whether or not it was the last TNG film, all we got were hem-haw answers. It was as if they didn’t want to commit to this being the end.
In comparison, “Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country” was billed as the last TOS film (not in the tagline, but the marketing and publicity surrounding the event). The actors and director all acknowledged that VI was the last film, and though they were sad about it, they also knew it was time. As Spock poetically says about the Chagall in his quarters, “All things must end.”
Please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not trying to setup a TOS vs. TNG flamefest. I’m just saying that the concluding film for each series was handled differently, and the box office results did end up where they did accordingly.
Any thoughts on that?
#151
Good point- the Baird-bashing is kind of missing the point. Frakes, who made an excellent movie with FIRST CONTACT also directed INSURRECTION, but lots of fans give him a pass, where they insist on blaming Baird.
A director’s performance is not always determinative of the final film’s quality. I think you have to go back to the scripts. John Logan (BATS) is not a great screenwriter, despite his attachment to some big-named shows. And Baird (while a better editor than a director) may have cut some good character scenes, I think the weight of NEMESIS’ faults are too large to be saved by an extra 15 minutes of footage.
Seriously, someone said in a development meeting for this movie “Let’s make ‘The Wrath of Khan!’” And they tried… and they failed.
Nemesis is flawed from its very concept. I never could accept that a clone would give anybody pause, least of all Picard. It takes very little deliberation to come to the conclusion that DNA only goes so far, and environment is paramount, in shaping what a person ends up being — the key trait of empathy is learned, not innately given. That realization takes about 30 seconds. End of story. Kill the villain and move on.
That’s not what Star Trek is about to me. Star Trek is about meatier SciFi stories than that.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, I agree that the Troi rape and the B4 subplots are weak, windowdressing to a plot that unravels as quickly as it is woven.
Also, the movie indulges in one of my pet peeves: voice-over narration over a montage of Shinzon’s life as a means to bring the viewer up to speed. Cheap.
Among my non-trekkie friends, most of them actually liked Nemesis. It had action in the right parts and the battle sequences were cool. From a Trekkie view point the movie flopped due to the direction. The script was ok in my opinion, it was just executed poorly.
I think they tried too hard to make Picard and Data like the Kirk, Spock dynamic and it never worked for me. B-for was too infantile and too cliche to implant Datas essence . The movie just miss fired on all cylinders.
For months leading up to the movie I was complaining about Romulans being the villans. Kept saying that Romulans were without honor and all.
Then on 12/13, we all witness Worf say to Riker “… the Romulans fought with honor”
EVERY head on our row turned and looked at me.
And of course I cried when Data died, even though I knew it was coming.
Great movie-just not as great as the hype.
I don’t hate it as much as many seem to, but there are some major problems with the film. The film dies on that Road Warrior planet and never really recovers.
I am all for critical minds. However, is it possible for us to agree to refrain from using the verb “rape” when talking about film adaptations that we find excessively distinguishable?
Seems Im the only person in the world that really liked this movie.
Movies faves
First Contact
Nemesis
Generations
Wrath of Kahn
Voyage Home
The only thing that I have a bug about is the focus on Troi, she is a lame character, always has been and Riker gets lamer the more he has to interact with her, Riker was always TNG’s version of Kirk, but then put him with Troi and he sucks, much like the Titan books, if they killed her off it would have been better than killing one of the best characters and would make the post Nemesis books better.
Could have made Data cry that he was giving up his life, he has an emotion chip after all but since its first activation has barely used it.
The movie was really good, not First Contact good but still really good.
Worthless, dreadful, boring, shallow, nasty smelly dungheap of a film.
Nope, didn’t like it.
73. OF course! TVH had a trite and used story. The message kept slapping the audience in their faces. It was poorly written. Badly directed. All the characters were played WAY out of character. (Kelly played McCoy as if he was high on cordozine!) Spock had an excuse. What was the excuse for the rest? It was just terrible overall. TVH was a total sellout. The pathetic plot made it so.
Sure, Nemesis had a few problems. (I pointed them out in my original post) But it was highly enjoyable overall. Particularity for the lesser talented group associated with TNG.
76. Popularity does not = good. Often it means it catered to the lowest common denominator. Look at what is the most popular show on TV today. American Idol? Please….
Don’t really know why a lot of people didn’t like Nemesis. Yeah, it’s definately not my favorite, but it’s still a great Trek all the same.
Horrible movie & worse by far in the series even as a TV episode it would have been forgotten quickly. TNG sealed their own fate as this was the best story they could come up with despite a 4 year development period. Stewart & Spiner were given too much behind the scenes story power to make this and clashed with Berman. At one point the rumour was Berman was getting kicked from the movie as the others did not want to work with him. Then the direction was just awful. Baird is a good editor but never been a strong director. Executive Decision was his best movie. Frakes should have been given another chance as he understood the material better but Paramount had promised Baird a movie as he had saved Tomb Raider and several others by doing some last minute editing duties. This movie felt so tired like they had run out of steam. The ending was a full circle thing really and the money they wasted on the Enterprise colliding was silly as there was no dramatic tension in several million polygons breaking apart. Killing Data was also contrived and only done as the actor was concerned with his age starting to show (it was) and if this film was popular then no doubt he would have been back again. Nothing felt fresh in this movie which was surprising given the 4 year gap. Even the actors appeared tired and jaded. Wheaton got the Berman shaft again as well despite being promised his cameo would not be cut Berman did cut it out as revenge for the incident which caused Wheaton to leave the show (he was offered a movie part which would have been shot around TNG and asked Berman if it was ok and he said no as Wheaton was needed on TNG for a big part in an upcoming episode. Then the actual role was just background scenery non speaking stuff but Wheaton had already declined the movie role. Next thing Berman axed him after he complained about it and went on a tirade on his blog where he gave all the details out!!).
I never hated this movie. TMP and TFF are far worse, in my opinion, but it does pale in comparison to TWOK, TUC and FC.
It was just mishandled. A thorough shame.
Nemesis is not as bad as it has been made out to be! There are a number of reasons for it’s poor performance at the box office. Most notably the fact that the previous movie had not been well received and also Star Trek: Enterprise (which I still maintain is an underrated show and deserved at least a fifth season after what was an excellent fourht season) was also not being well received at the time.
In any event if you look at Nemesis in isolation ranks a lot higher than Insurrection as far as I’m concerned and would probably be the second best (behind First Contact) of the TNG movies.
Nemesis had plenty of action and quite an interesting story.
And who can forget when the Enterprise rammed the Scimitar. How cool was that?!
Nemesis isn’t that bad, but when I watch it I keep on thinking about what I would change to make it better. I normally don’t react that way to a film. I still can’t think of anything to change in Final Frontier to make it even semi-good. To give a more complete answer to the question about the differences between Data and the androids shown on TOS; the TOS androids were either from long dead, highly advanced civilizations (What are Little Girls Made of?/I Mudd) or built by a human who had centuries to work on the design (Requiem for Methuselah) No one in the Alpha Quadrant, during the Star Trek era, had the tech or capability to build one, until Singh created his positronic brain and built his “sons” (Data, Lore and B4).
@ #9- Jonathan Frakes did not fail with Insurrection. He was only the director remember, he did not make up that awful story and the stupid script.
He himself said he was unhappy with the story of ST: Insurrection for the same reason we were all unhappy with it but there wasn’t exactly anything he could do except to try and direct it as well as he could.
As for the nemesis trailer, they make you believe it’s Lore so you get all excited and then you watch the film and it’s some made up prototype which is just absurd and insulting. The trailer’s may be good but the film made no sense whatsoever.
Here’s the thing – Nemesis was aimed largely at the mainstream audience. Usually whenever I watched Trek on the big screen it would just be me and my one other Trekker friend.
For some reason, 3 of our non-Trekker friends decided to join us for Nemesis and the surprising thing was – they ALL enjoyed it! (even tho my Trek bud and I were disappointed by it) One even went as far as saying he had no idea Trek was so cool (he eventually ended up borrowing my Trek movie DVDs and is now a fan and also looking forward to Trek XI). So I would say that Nemesis did do the job on some small level, but 2 other huge reasons this movie failed:
1. MARKETING. Sure, it had a script that sat badly with us fans but had it been marketed properly and widely, I’m sure this movie might have had a decent box office return
2. Bad word of wouth – fans were slamming this movie long before it was even released. So a non-Trekker hearing a Trekker complain about their favourite franchise will automatically discourage the non-Trekker from watching it and making up their own minds. So yeah, fans were hugley to blame to Nemesis’ failure.
The point I’m trying to make here – stop judging the end product based on your blind love for this franchise. Doing so will only discourage potential viewers and others who just might like it from seeing it. I see this happening for Trek XI. It’s being poorly judged before it’s even released, mainstream audiences are going to hear FANS complaining, so if FANS are complaining why should they bother?
Just my 2c :)
Truly woeful movie.
And it’s hard saying that but i found it a massive slap in the face.
The death of Data, no matter how people try and justify it, was complete nonsense.
It served no purpose.
And is it just me, or did the cast age pretty badly?
They all seemed so old and worn out.
With the exception of LeVar Burton of course…..
But in fairness, read LeVar’s comments about the director to see where this movie went wrong.
Such a sad, boring and unworthy way to end such a wonderful epic as The Next Generation.
#163
Oh I agree, popularity alone does not equal a good story. However, it isn’t popular merely among fans or among the public – it’s both. I truly believe that says something. You can’t completely discount a film’s popularity, otherwise every successful movie = rubbish. Maybe you hold that opinion, but I don’t think it’s a very reasonable one.
I firmly believe you will find yourself in the minority when it comes to TVH vs Nemesis. And of course, that doesn’t make you wrong. Though I’ll admit, I can’t relate to your position, at all. TVH was an absolutely lovely movie, and I can’t think of a single moment where anyone is acting out of character. Sure, the film’s message was loud and clear – but what’s wrong with that? Trek has always addressed social issues through its stories. That’s one of the reasons it’s considered classic.
Nemesis, on the other hand, was an insult to everything TNG was ever about. Every character is wasted, and everyone literally is out of character. I *loved* TNG, and I was absolutely appalled at the treatment they received on the big screen. They deserved so much more.
I’m in the ‘Nemesis is OK’ camp. Not outstanding or something I watch on multiple viewings, but its still Trek.
I think that the story was just all wrong. Clones had (and have) been done to death thanks to Mr Lucas. As stated above by so many, if this was the final voyage of the TNG crew it should have focused more on the TNG crew. The whole B4 thing was wrong. I remember thinking “Data has ANOTHER brother….?” and why were his parts strewn around this particular planet. As for the Dune Buggy scene, I can appreciate it for what it is. I remember in pre release interviews Patrick Stewart talked lovingly of that particular plot point and about what a great time he had filming it. Data’s death had absolutely no emotional impact for me. I had already figured out that they were copying TWOK and that Data’s ‘katra’ had already been downloaded into B4. Yawn.
I place more responsibility on this film on the Executive Producer who shall not be named that OK’d the story.
I remember watching Nem in the theater with my wife. She isn’t an avid Trek fan, but liked Next Gen and the characters. At some point shortly after the excrutiating wedding toast and dune buggy scenes, she leaned over to me and asked: “Why is Picard being such a jerk?”
That said (#174), I agree that this film isn’t as bad as some make it out to be. Same with Insurrection. I consider both to be marginal Next Gen episodes, strengthened by generally better special effects and the big screen.
Honestly, I thought Nemesis was OK. I thought it was entertaining, and while certainly not the best of the films, also not the worst. For example, I think it was much better than Insurrection, which was really just a two-part TV episode stuck on the big screen, and to be honest a two-part TV episode which I’d rank as one of my least favorites.
The criticisms people typically have of it I can understand, but I also think are taken to an unwarranted level.
People dislike some of the cheesy humor, but I think that the much of the best of Trek has always had a degree of humor to it, often times of the cheesy sort. Certainly TOS was full of it, the more successful films were not devoid of it.. heck even the darkest and most serious DS9 episodes had a moment of comic relief here or there. The point is that I can understand the disapproval of things like the dune buggy, but I think often times those criticisms are directed towards the very idea of any such humor at all, at which time a given criticism is, in my opinion, invalid. In other words, if someone says “well, you know I didn’t think joke X fit at that point in the film,” or, “They made too much of that joke,” or something like that, that’s fine, but when I hear things like “X was bad because it was a joke,” well that’s just silly.
I also think that the criticism that is often heard that the film didn’t deal enough with the characters or wasn’t a good send-off or that sort of thing is *vastly* flawed. The film was very largely about the characters. It dealt primarily with the lives, purposes, and most importantly the *humanity* of data and Picard. Picard’s interactions with Shinzon and the question of their different developments and destinies was one side of the coin, while the humanity of Data was the other side. Data was finally able to become human in Nemesis, in two important ways. First, and most obviously, he died. His death was very quick and without any great pageantry (as for instance accompanied Spock’s in TWOK), and this is exactly the point. Data died what was, while certainly very meaningful in his sacrifice for the crew, otherwise a somewhat “normal” death – the sort of death any human being could die. That poetic irony seems to be lost on many.
Secondly, B-4 also contributes to Data’s humanity NOT because he left his “katra” behind in a rehashing of Spock’s death, as one poster suggested, but because in B-4 he left behind someone to carry on his legacy, someone to carry on his being, after his death. When a man dies, he leaves behind his children to serve as a memory of him, so to speak – I’m trying to paraphrase something said (I believe) to Data in “The Offspirng” here… or it may have been Picard in Generations, or both. The point is that one of the themes about humanity throughout Star Trek has been that part of being human is that when you die, you leave something – usually some*one* – behind to carry on your life, and your legacy. Throughout Nemesis, Data essentially fathered B-4. He taught him many things, corrected his bad behaviors, punished him. He did what he did with Lal. When Spock left his katra with McCoy, there was no other creature to carry on his legacy, just another man driven crazy. When Data died in Nemesis, that scene at the end with Picard and B-4 pointed out that Data *had* left behind an entirely other life form to live as he had taught him and carry on his life (Data’s) through his (B-4’s).
Now did the film deal a great deal with the destinies and humanity of the other characters? No, not really. But did Undiscovered Country? No, it didn’t. It really dealt with Kirk and Spock, and each of their legacies, their own personal relationship, and their own inner triumphs and tragedies. It didn’t even really deal with McCoy in such a way. Despite this, Undiscovered Country is regarded as a tremendous film, and one which gave a wonderful send-off. The reality is that TOS was really ultimately about Spock and Kirk, with a little McCoy, and TNG was really primarily about Picard and Data, with some greater degrees of focus on the other characters due to it’s long run. In any finale, you’re going to focus on a few of the characters, rather than all of them. That’s just the nature of things. For example, if you tried to send of Uhura with a grand goodbye, it would really seem to be that you’d downplayed the importance of Kirk and Spock… you just can’t do it for everybody without making the important characters seem neglected. The same goes for TNG.
This has been far longer than intended, so I’ll stop here!
The more often I see Nemesis on DVD (it is not that bad, way better than Generations and TFF), the more I get the impression, that it’s writing and production was not well thought and discussed. Here I present the things I don’t like and how I have tried to do it better, if I were the writer/director.
1.) Shinzon: The idea of a Picard-clone was not bad, but the young Tom Hardy was no match for Patrick Stewart and of course no match for Cpt. Picard. They should have cast Stewart fort Shinzon and gave him a grim, dark make-up, perhaps some black lines under the eylids, running down his face, representing something reptile or predator-like. I think it was a mistake not to make clear, that Shinzon IS the bad guy from the very beginning. The lame effect was, we – the audience – allready knew it, but the movie don’t show his evil side. But Stewart vs. Sterwart could have been very, very cool.
2.) The buggy: That entire idea was ridiculous and was poorly executed. And the only surprising element, the jump in the cargoroom, could – thank’s for bad cutting – allready predicted. BTW: Why should starfleet make use of wheeld verhicle on an alien planet. What will the inhabitants say if they found the roots? Prime Directive anyone? Better they had beamed down, get imprisoned by this aliens, stole one of their buggies and flee to the Argo. Perhaps that would have been a bit more interesting.
3.) B4: I liked the idea of a not-advanced Data. They should have kept the scene in the movie, were B4 studied the spoon, instead of try to eat something. There should have been also a scene that revealed his origins and how he get into romulan hands.
4.) The Remans: It was never clear WHY THE HELL the Remans should want to conquer earth. They are enslaved gun-fodder, shouldn’t they bring their revenge first over Romulus? I wished B&B and Logan had kept the Romulans as the true evil guys, using the enraged Remans for attacking the federation. For serveral reasons: Weaken the federation, conquer some planets required for the Empire and have a reason to stop and terminate the Reman Liberty movement. Berman & Co could have made Nemesis to a real political thriller.
5.) The Titan: I was so eager to see Riker’s new ship, but it was only mentioned. Sad. Now, we never going to see it, not on tv nor on the big screen. BTW: The design from the novels is poor. That tiny ships don’t fit the name,
6.) The battle: Was a rush with some really visible CGi. There were no clever tactics, now hide-and-seek-manouvers. This was no big epic battle. It was far too long with too many fire breaks.
7.) The bottomless shaft: Another complete ridiculous scene and an example how few thinking Baird or the producers invest in the movie. It would be better, the Enterprise get a hit an the Viceroy would have been sucked out in space – or Riker beats him and take him prison, so that he could learn that Shinzon and his gang was used by the romulan extremists.
8.) The mind.raping: I don’t know about that. It never seemed heavy for me and I can’t understand, how an experienced telepath like Troi don’t fight back immediatly. Besides that, this was never necessary to the story. It would have been more interesting, if the Viceroy would have tried to spy the Enterprise out, through Troi’s thoughts and eyes.
9.) The Scimitar: A very ugly starship. Way too complicate to get the superweapon ready. That was idiotic, because in Star Trek no things need to enfold and enfold and enfold to get fire ready. Some minutes they could have cut out.
10.) The romulan Warbird Valdore: Okay, I liked that design, but for story reasons, the Romulans shouldn’t have shown up to assist Picard. Some of the other posters suggests it allready. It should have been Riker and Troi with Titan to come to the rescue. That would have given the writers and producers the opportunity to bring in some new characters, like now in the Post-Nemesis-novels. But somehow, they should have also included the new Warbirds, perhaps in a final meeting. The true bad guys decloaking, threatens the nearly destroyed Enterprise and the heavy damaged Titan with destruction. Picard tells the romulan Commander, that the game is over and the Viceroy call his people aboard the romulan vessels. An uprising ends the romulan plans and the romulan commander have to surrender.
11.) The Romulan Senat: That was a poor scene. How many Senators the RSE have? 20? In the Roman Senat there were at least several hundert and so I would have expected from the Romulans as well. It would have also been interesing, if some Senator have survived and been later imprisoned when they found out the true plans of the military extremists.
12.) Cutted scenes: Some of the cutted scenes are pretty good and should have been left in the movie for example: The drinking scene between Data and Picard and some other character scenes as well.
Conclusion: Nemesis had great, very great potential, but however, it don’t become a great movie. I remember the very emty and unsatisfied feeling it left in me on the premiere-night. Sad, the time of TNG and and the ongoing continuity is over now – I don’t hope forever.
172.
I do not hold the opinion that popularity = crap. There are many exceptions. But I find that what is VERY popular, or the most popular of a particular series often falls into that category. Yes, that does say something. It says it was aiming for the lowest common denominator. Not to be good.
I know I am in the minority regarding TVH. But it is just so unwatchable. All the characters were simply not themselves. Scotty came across as so incredibly stupid it was embarrassing for the fans and Mr. Doohan. Really, the entire crew came across as being spectacularly stupid people. I own all the movies on DVD EXCEPT TVH. It’s just plain awful. I can understand why it was the most successful. I can understand why a lot of non Trek people liked it. But I just can’t relate to why a trek fan would like it. At all. There is nothing inherently wrong with making the message so obvious. TOS did it with “Let that be Your Last Battlefield”. Part of it is that since the rest of the movie was so pathetically bad, it is easy to rip on the blatant obviousness of the message. I said before that Trek works best when the message or comment is much more subtle.
I have a hard time thinking Nemesis was a “insult”. I have to admit that I was never a huge fan of TNG. I didn’t hate it or anything. I liked it OK. But it paled when compared to TOS. Of the 4 TNG movies, it was the 2nd best. Much closer to FC than it was to the other 2. No one acted out of character. (Unlike the TOS crew in THV) And felt it to be a worth send off. It did lack the emotional punch the death of a character ought to have. Perhaps if it were Troi or Riker who bit it it would have had more emotion. Well, not Troi. Her character was the weakest of all of them. But it would have been solemn as those two were about to enter a new stage of life together. Data was never more than a tool to my eyes. A souped up lap top. Little more. So his “death” meant precious little. Especially since they have made it very clear that there are other machines like him all over the universe.
This is a pictorial of the movie (think a photo novel) with awesome, hilarious comments on the general stupidity of the film:
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html
The weird thing is that after Insurrection’s failure, I think the studio made good, reasonable choices: to hire a respected screenwriter who was also a fan, to hire an actual director (maybe not a Spielberg of course, but Baird was a famous editor and solid action director. Paramount wanted to get away from TNG television directors -Carson- or TV actors -Frakes, Burton- and have a maintream professional movie made. But it was just a case of those choices — which seemed good on paper — just did NOT perform. What a horrible script. What bland, uninspired direction.
Baird may be a fine editor but he is a barely passable director. He was a poor choice to helm Nemesis. The main written structure of this story was fine it was terribly executed. Having Stewart play both parts made more sense. You don’t have fu%#ing dune buggies in the 24th century. This movie was just inept film making. Far too many cooks for this stew, and it ended up spoiled because of it. This movie is a horrible note for the TNG cast to go out on. Maybe Paramount will allow them a final bow in some other feature.
A cracking film, appart from the rushed demise of Data.. and more proof that Star Trek “fans” are what help to kill the franchise over and over.