Well, I don’t blame him for the death scene — that was the evil writers. :) Well, I DO blame him for doing the dang movie, so I guess I do have some issue there. What’s scary is that the original death scene was even worse.

I never read any of his books, but that is certainly true of his later portrayals of the character onscreen.

Somewhere the line got blurred (in his mind) between Shatner and Kirk, and that wasn’t a good thing for his performances. Bill was given too much creative control and/or influence, and the character suffered.

He was great when kept in check by a strong director, like Nick Meyer or Robert Wise (who I think, despite some fan opinions to the contrary, got a great performance out of him that really put the character where he was supposed to be at that awkward point in his life). It is clear to me that the equestrian angle of Jim Kirk towards the end was all Shatner. I could have done without that…and the goofy death scene.

Good point. I’d forgotten the 15 years after Space Seed timeframe.

But they are not canon.

I will say that some of the material in the novelizations, had it been incorporated in the films, would have made them better.

Example(1): Saavik’s backstory in TWOK and TSFS explaining her heritage and the reasons her emotions were so close to the surface; Kirstie Alley actually plays the character with that backstory in mind, all mention of which was cut from the film. If you didn’t know that backstory, you might think her performance was poor, and certainly “unVulcan-like”.

Example(2): Uhura’s evasion of Starfleet security and escape to asylum with Sarek at the Vulcan Embassy in TSFS was thrilling and fantastic. It would have made a great scene, IMO.

As for the TMP novelization, I find it to actually be rather poorly written, GR or not. The director’s cut of the film is vastly superior to the theatrical cut or the novelization (in my opinion).

Some of them would be fine by me as canon, but it’s hard to justify arbitrarily cherry-picking some, while leaving others alone.

It’s best to say that none of it is canon. The best portions of them can be described as “fanon” (like the Saavik backstory for example).

I keep it simple. I only consider live action Star Trek to be ‘canon’, with the lone exception of TAS “Yesteryear” (which is far too often referenced in live action productions to be ignored canonically).

and

#218-Closet–”"But you hit the nail on the head with #1.

Sybok is a definite candidate for excommunication from the church of Star Trek canon. They could have “taken a mulligan” on the whole movie, as far as I’m concerned.”

I like that actor but gosh, that character grated on every nerve I had. Plus the whole Sarek married a princess nonsense….sheesh. The studio was so out to lunch to greenlight that film.

As for the whole horse thing…that was just Shatner’s RL intruding on our Trek. It’s like his books — whatever was going on in his life, ended up in Kirk’s too.

Big bugaboo to me. Klingons are Klingons. Romulans are Romulans. That and the Morrow dialogue gets a sneer from me every time I see TSFS.

But you hit the nail on the head with #1.

Sybok is a definite candidate for excommunication from the church of Star Trek canon. They could have “taken a mulligan” on the whole movie, as far as I’m concerned.

I’ve had better experiences getting a root canal than I did watching STV: The Great Trek Turd Of ‘89.

Beyond Kirk’s death in Generations, I didn’t much care for him basically (and very suddenly) becoming Shatner the equestrian either. I know that can be traced to STV as well, but I got the feeling (seeing Kirk in the nexus) that he was living Pike’s “what if” inspired illusion in “The Cage”/”The Menagerie”….not anything that belonged to Jim Kirk.

Sybok a bugaboo? I think STXI, the whole film, should’ve been a prequel explaining his life and origin! C’mon, who’s with me? It would’ve made a great movie! As Sybok himself would say, “You KNOW I am right!”

;-)