Star Trek Writers Talk Marketing and Fan Interaction January 14, 2009
by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Orci/Kurtzman, Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback
Yesterday we pointed to the first part of a FirstShowing.net interview with Star Trek scribes Orci and Kurtzman talking about the origins of the new film and more. Today FirstShowing has more from the pair on their other projects and also their thoughts about the marketing of their films and fan interaction (including interacting with fans here at TrekMovie.com).
Excerpt part 2 of the interview at FirstShowing.net:
FirstShowing: How much marketing say do you have in The Proposal and Star Trek?
Orci: The Proposal, we’ve not been very involved in; on Star Trek, quite a bit.
First Showing: I guess I’m just curious because being who I am, the journalist and working on all this, all we see is the marketing side of things, so it’s something we have to criticize a lot, I’d say. With Star Trek, I want it to be successful and we’re all hoping that they get trailers out and posters out on time and people like them and that everything’s marketed well because if it’s not, we’re trying to defend a film that people aren’t liking, which is why it’s interesting to learn how much involvement you have with that.
Kurtzman: We’ve learned how important it is, that you can have the best movie in the world and if you don’t sell it right, it doesn’t matter.
Orci: The crazy truth is that movies get greenlit without a vote from the marketing department saying "we know how to put this out there," especially on movies that are big like Star Trek or Transformers. When you are staking so much of your success on the way a movie’s put out there, as the producer, it’s your responsibility to be involved as much as possible. And also, it’s your responsibility to listen to people who are smarter than you about how to do it.
FirstShowing: Is this why you guys like getting really involved with the fans? I know you’re very active on the TFW2005 forum and the TrekMovie forum. I think with you guys and a few other people in this industry finally connecting with fans on that level, I think it’s really benefiting these films in the end, especially very franchise-related films.
Kurtzman: These movies are not ours. We’re not making them for ourselves. We are, of course, but we’re making them for people to go see. I think especially with something like Star Trek, we’re so lucky to have inherited that mantle and we are just doing our best to preserve the incredible legacy of Star Trek and to keep bolstering the amazing work that’s already been done. So this is not something that we can claim we created in any way.
Orci: Right. In particular when it’s a franchise that has belonged to fans for as long as it has, that’s when we feel a particular responsibility to be open about it. Some people don’t subscribe to this — Alex and I tend to like demystify the process. We maybe are open to a fault about how things work but some people don’t like to see how sausage is made. It sometimes hurts their perception of a movie. We don’t like to create false mystery. We like to be kind of open about it. That’s just how we operate.
…read much more from Orci and Kurtzman at FirstShowing.net (especially about Transfomers 2)
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Comments»
Interesting stuff.
Its nice to see them interacting with the fans. Serenity/Friefly had a lot of creator interaction on the browncoat website and promotion and marketing leading up to the release, and it did not fair too well domestically by what big studios want movies to make to be deemed a success. If its not the next Titanic or Dark Knight its called a “flop”. Serenity, like the new ST movie was also supposed to be accessible to non-sci-fi audiences. While it was a great movie with a strong fan following it still was not enough for the big studio execs to make another one. Here’s hoping that this movie is a big hit. Or at least a big enough hit to keep more movies or series going.
I agree that it’s nice they take the time out to read and post on the forums (like on hear). Bob, Alex, if you’re listening, it’s much appreciated you’re listening to us! If only more were like you!
I’m looking forward to Transformers 2. I enjoyed the first film.
You talk about “smarter” people. I just hope you don’t fall into the trap of trying to out-think your audience. Sure, some films that are about very contemporary male characters have made big bucks. That doesn’t mean Kirk needs a refit into that paradigm. (Ooh Mommy, I used a big boy word!) Kirk is swagger and utterly inappropriate when it comes to respecing women’s personhood. But, in a good way. I honestly think sci-fi geeks are ahead of the curve in recognizing a movie that’s built and marketed according to formula. Many of us have learned to steer clear. (Though I dearly loved the first Indy film, I would never pay money for the new one. I read the reviews. I read the comments here.)
Anyway — at least the marketing gurus knew enough to put the two sex shots in the trailer. (I doubt that decision derived from their brains, though.)
Even though I am not totally into the AU/origins story device, I am into seeing this movie. And I do want to express my appreciation to Bob Orci for coming on here and talking with us. I think for the most part, yesterdays discourse on opposing viewpoints and desires for the movie were quite civil and enlightening.
“We don’t like to create false mystery. We like to be kind of open about it.”
Like spending 6 months trying to convince everybody the movie isn’t a reboot when its obviously a reboot. oooookay.
“Kirk is swagger and utterly inappropriate when it comes to respecing women’s personhood”
Woah woah woah. I think that’s a complete misconception. He may have liked the ladies, but I was never under the impression Kirk didn’t respect them. In fact, I’d say his behavior toward Uhura, Ariel Shaw, etc. showed great respect for them as human beings, not just sex objects.
I really appreciate how much Bob, Alex have kept us all “in the loop” and how they have intereacted with us in such a positive way.
And thanks to Anthony for making that possible! I just wish I had done a site like this first.
So, is there going to be a Viral marketing campaign or ARG for ST?
#2
Well, I enjoyed Serenity. However, while Serenity wasn’t a big success, it was also less of a gamble. Production cost was less than a quarter of the new Trek movie. The risk, however, is a calculated one. Let’s face it, Star Trek is far bigger than Firefly ever was and/or will be. People have a basic idea about what Star Trek is. The marketing campaign also has kicked off nicely, so I expect it to at least bring in the money it cost. Yet I must say, I am a little uncomfortable with the notion that Lenovo could have built any part of the Enterprise. Damn thing’s going fall apart. I miss the IBM Thinkpads *sigh*
… back on topic …
I am really impressed by Mr Orci and Mr Kurtzman. They do at least have the guts to come here and face the fans, especially people like me, who care about the integrity of the timeline :). Unlike the lurkers, they also try to convey their point of view, which indicates to me, that they put thought in it and are convinced it is the right road they’re taking with ST. I may not be convinced it is, but at least they care.
That is something that some guy named Baird should have done before he agreed to mess with a universe he knows nothing about.
Well I appreciate Bob taking his time and coming out here:)
These guys are OK…
I an all seriousness, the access to Bob Orci on this site has been amazing. He has certainly been in the 5th circle of hell with us for some time, and still manages to glean from it that which helps him do his job.
Our city newspaper had a full page ad for STAR WARS in 1977. That and the soundtrack double album certainly got my attention.
For a moment I imagined this site without boborci’s involvement. It didn’t get this busy at all and made me think of it looking somewhat like what TrekBBS has become. :(
I’m really looking forward to the release date in May, if only in that Bob and Alex can talk openly about all parts of the movie, and don’t have to worry about spoilage! The “Making Of ___ Trek ____” works and books and all are now here ‘in progress’ on the net, and I’m sure when Bob can disclose much more he will. At least I hope he’ll still come back!
Aye, Bob and Alex, you’re a class act!
I know you’ve probably heard this before, in fact, you probably wrote the original line, but to paraphrase it:
“I like this site, it’s exciting!”
And it’s always better when they come around our corner. Curious, though, we’ve seen “boborci” a lot around here, but does Mr. Kurtzman have a TM name?
BobOrci,
You know, as much as we bitch, complain and moan about this or that, I suspect that just about everyone here is very grateful to have this kind of interation with the creative minds behind the movie.
It shows that you guys really do care what we think, feel etc., and are really trying to do this right.
This is something that Peter Jackson and Guillermo Del Toro are doing for Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit too, and it is something very much appreciated.
I would like to personally thank you guys for this level of interaction, right down to the dragged out, dirty battles on fundamental issues.
I for one am looking forward to seeing the movie you wrote.
“Woah woah woah. I think that’s a complete misconception. He may have liked the ladies, but I was never under the impression Kirk didn’t respect them. In fact, I’d say his behavior toward Uhura, Ariel Shaw, etc. showed great respect for them as human beings, not just sex objects.”
Yep. In fact, the official Writer’s Guide for TOS made it clear that, while Kirk was pretty compulsive about playing hard while on shore, this was as much about the self-imposed distance between himself and his crew he observed while on ship as anything else. With all due respect, typecasting him as a swaggering lech is really a fundamental misunderstanding of the character.
Alex and Bob really sound like they just ‘Get It’ They might not do everything us fans like but they really are trying hard, so sight unseen I give them an ‘A’ for effort – no question.
I look forward to the DVD commentary where they can discuss why they made the choiches they did and they can talk openly about the movie. That will be a great conversation!
This is really looking like Star Trek II for this generation of fans.
Dear The OrcSter™,
How’s Cowboys and Arabians® coming along? I still say that you ain’t yella. Trekmovies dot com rewlz the YOUniverse!!!
the women…
=h=
Off topic abit but since this is an alternate reality to TOS is there a chance that we could see Khan again in a future movie. Who could play him?
21:
As silly as the concept seems, i actually started thinking about it.
Khan is Asian, but Ricardo imbued him with that Latino machismo and smugness with which we are all familiar.
Antonio Banderas?
Haha! Thought the same thing!
It might not make a good theater film, but it might make a good direct-to-DVD movie. I’d really like to see what happens in between Space Seed and TWOK. I have a book that says it all, but I haven’t gotten around to reading it.
I said it before and I’ll say it again. I am impressed with them talking to us. It really shows a lot of character. And the fact that they continue to come back and answer questions from both folks who are happy as well as those who criticize what they have heard.
I also hope that they’ll take into considerationsome of the comments like if Gary Mitchell is not in this movie, it would be cool if they try to fit him into the sequel somehow–at least mention him. I think that is one of the obvious ways to show the old fan base that while these characters may be in a different universe than the one we have seen in the old show, some things….some situations…are concrete. You know….mention the salt sucking creature of “The Man Trap,” one of the first shows. I figure by the sequel they will be starting or have started their five year mission.
Hell, they can even reintroduce Kahn and have another prequel type movie with a slightly altered storyline. You know, tell the story of how they find Kahn. Maybe change some of the small details like have Kahn and crew sent off to deep space in 2090s or something like that. Reintroduce Harry Mudd, maybe. The story continues and is expanded.
22. AJ – January 14, 2009
Xavier.
What if Gary Mitchell in this reality ends up not turning into a “barrier alien”? We could see a whole new storyline with him in different situations maybe even learn about him more as a character. Hell, he might have been a starship captain himself had what happened to him not happen.
#18: “In fact, the official Writer’s Guide for TOS made it clear that, while Kirk was pretty compulsive about playing hard while on shore, this was as much about the self-imposed distance between himself and his crew he observed while on ship as anything else.”
Which neither really explains or justifies anything,
“…it’s your responsibility to listen to people who are smarter than you…”
one sign of a great manager! and one who has some humility. Bravo!
“…some people don’t like to see how sausage is made…”
well I do! and I love the fact that they were open with us about how they were making it! and maybe even allowed us to help in some way…
Thanks for all you do Roberto! LL&P
#18- Michael Hall…
yes if the kirk we were seeing in this film was as evolved as he was in the series then your observation about they not understanding the character would be true……but a) its not and b) its an alternate timeline, one where kirk had to deal 1ith an abusive uncle, so this kirk is different…for now…
oh, now they want interaction…
say, how about offering up a set of designs of the new 1701 for the fans to vote on?
d’oh!
So….Transformers 2 will be on HD-DVD and not Blu-Ray, right?
j/k
31,
Actually, they’ve been around here for quite some time.
26:
Sorry, Bob.
Who’s Xavier?
This just in: Actor Ricardo Montalbon has died at the age of 88.
R.I.P.
Ah, sorry to hear it. He had a good, long run, but it’s still sad. Best movie villain ever, and nobody else could have pulled it off with the same style.
Yet another Star Trek icon gone for good. The new year starts like the last year ended, with the death of a great Trek actor.
Ricardo will be missed.
I was also lost on the Xavier remark bob…..I do like the idea of Antonio Banderas as Khan.
Khaaaannn!!!!
Ricardooooo!!!!!!
R.I.P.
Wow thats weird, was just talking about him. Maybe I should stop talking about other characters that are still alive.
Adios Ricardo!
Rest in Peace, Ricardo.
Fantasy Island is now closed (for us).
That’s creepy we were talking about a new Khan, and Ricardo died.
“Revenge is a dish best served cold”
Rest in Peace Ricardo Montalban.
Rest in Peace Mr. Montalban :(
I think Bob meant Javier Bardem from No Country for Old Men.
BobOrci, – Speaking of S Spielberg (im assuming the meeting where he went ‘I steal from myself all the time‘ was about TF 1?) – could you possibly tell us anything about Spielbergs involvement on Trek? I read on this site he visited the set and liked the script…maybe anything he said – if he revealed what his fave trek film was…his thoughts on Trek…if he helped shoot a scene etc? – no problems if its confidential info ;)
Mr. Orci, as hard as many of us are on you sometimes, your presence at TrekMovie.com and your interactions with fans have been of incredible value. That you talk to us and read our input no matter what the content, is truly validating. You have my greatest respect.
If STXI does turn out to be good, you will be a hero to me.
34. AJ – January 14, 2009
26:
Sorry, Bob.
Who’s Xavier?
He may be talking about Javier Bardem, who would be very interesting, IMO.
Damn it, I’m still pissed that Mantalban died today. :(
Edit: Yeah, like Galileo said. :)
I am going to guess Bob is referring to Javier Bardem who won an Oscar “No Country for Old Men”…which would be great!
48. screaming satellite – January 14, 2009
When he read it, he graciously told JJ that he HAD TO DIRECT IT (and he gave us a few notes for clarity).
And in one particular action sequence that we needed help on, he came to the set and we sat with him (we being JJ, Alex, Damon, and Matt Reeves who happened to be there as well) in the halls of the Enterprise to talk about some gags. He was amazingly helpful.
53 – Thanks for the response mr orci – Thats really great…Its amazing to think that Spielberg actually had some involvement in a star trek movie! (think there may have been rumours he was approached for TMP as well…not sure..)
Come to think of it he’s never actually directed a space set movie…CE3K, ET, WOTW plus AI & Minority (& Indy 4) are all earth set sci fi..(although I read he came close to directing Return of the Jedi or a prequel)..I wonder if he’ll ever direct a space set film eventually? I hope so…
“…some people don’t like to see how sausage is made.” – J. R. Orci
Good one, JRO.
JRO is my bro. I’m just RO.
21 – yeah as its a new time line (but undoubtedly some or most events will occur as they originally did) maybe for Star Trek ‘2′ they could redo Space Seed and have the NCC 1701 encounter the Bontany Bay once again and Kirk and Khan could do battle although in a different fashion maybe even with a diff outcome – sort of a remake of Space Seed and Star Trek II
How funny would that be – the new Trek ‘2′ would deal with Khan as well…after all Khan is the most popular Star Trek villian (and a very popular Sci Fi villian in general) rip Ricardo..
OK RO. Sorry `bout that.
Any skinny on a Viral Marketing campaign or ARg for the new movie?
Mr. Bailey:
“Which neither really explains or justifies anything,”
Oh, really? Care to cite any examples (taking, of course, the context of the era TOS was produced in to account) of Kirk treating the women under his command as sex objects?
A Writer’s Guide (or “bible”) sets the tone of the show and broadly defines how the characters will act and react. If Kirk was always such a straight-arrow aboard ship, what reason would there be to think that didn’t happen because the character was specifically designed to act that way?
#53 – Will he get any credit on the film? Would be cool.
“The idea that we could’ve gone online and talked to people who were making movies when we were kids, would’ve been a dream. We used to be amazed when we could get hold of a script after a movie came out, forget about actually interacting and possibly even having some influence over the material.” –Mr. Orci
It’s *still* a dream, which is why watching this movie come together with Mr. Orci hanging around on TM.com has been so darned cool!
52. Anthony,
Shut up about that!! I already have enough Star Trek anticipation. Planting that seed in my brain about the dude from No Country playing Khan is not fair!! (yet awesome…you bastard.)
54. screaming satellite
Have you heard about Interstellar?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0816692/
God, I hope it happens. It has the potential to be the next 2001.
I’ve read a few blurbs about Speilberg’s Interstellar, and I’m hoping for something really significant. I must confess, I was not really touched by his version of War of the Worlds, and I still prefer the original. It wasn’t a bad movie, but it lacked something… the innocence (?) of the original…
With the new Star Trek, I’m expecting something very today, with the tremendous spirit of TOS looming overhead… We can look at ST from an artistic standpoint, but we cannot deny the business part of it. ST needs a facelift in order to be relevant to the times. And in order to maintain a place in the entertainment industry of future generations, it must adapt and change… because ST will always be about the future, and the future will always be something re-imagined and re-invented.
I feel a young energy being pumped into ST, and I think that’s a good thing. What I think is cool, my kids think is stupid, so a person of my generation is NOT going to revitalize any franchise. That takes young minds, fresh ideas, so be tolerant.
I think the coolest thing of all has been the opportunity to interact with the makers of this film, the opportunity to hear things from the horse’s mouth, to get a sense of them at work, and so forth. It is tremendously fascinating to me, and this has all been incredible fun.
In a very perverted way, I’m going to be sorry when the movie opens because the cat will be out of the bag, and this forum just won’t be the same….. sniff… sniff…. sniff……
#17: Amen to that. While I retain a healthy skepticism about the film, I’m certainly very grateful for Mr. Orci’s participation here (and I remain hopeful that some day … perhaps some day in the summer of this year, for example … I can count myself among his fans).
“We maybe are open to a fault about how things work but some people don’t like to see how sausage is made”
Bob, this fits well with this line from Damon:
“You know, when I was a latchkey kid and had to fix my own dinner, I would eat these [Hungry Man dinners]. I would buy a baked fish dinner because it had a cherry pie. I never ate the fish, I would just eat the cherry pie.”
I see a screenwriting guide coming here… “Sausages and Cherry Pies”
;))
I was actually a bit shamed when I realized that they post here, as I have been direct and assertive in voicing concerns. Hopefully, has been done well and will do well at the box office.
Javier Bardem would rock as Khan, for sure. He’d scare the bejesus out of the audience, and certainly chew up the scenery real good, just as Ricardo Montalban did.
Of course, Faran Tahir would fill the bill as well, and he is actually from the vicinity of Khan’s home.
So it’s agreed? STXII is a remake of Space Seed? ;-)
Serenity was an amazing movie. It respected the original series, gave the women equal importance to the men, and it gave some characters some great death scenes. It even won a sci fi award in the UK. I suppose its impact wasn’t greater because relatively few people were aware of the series and couldn’t place the movie into context.
Wow, if the Trek plot was as good as Serenity, I’d be really enthusiastic! I don’t expect that it will be quite as good – only TWOK can compare so far – but I don’t doubt that the franchise’s pedigree will lead it to do far better at the box office even if the plot isn’t great.
The Star Wars prequels had a lot going for them, but they weren’t great movies overall and they were still awesomely popular.
Yeah, if the new movie is any where near as good as Serenity, I’ll be a happy camper.
64 –
That sounds awesome – lets hope it gets made..if not maybe he’ll want to direct Star Trek ‘2’ he he (if JJ dosnt do it) – not unheard of for big name directors to do sequels to others films (Hannibal)
STAR TREK II: SPACE SEED
Directed by Steven Spielberg
Starring Javier Bardem as “Khan”
Actually, the problem with that is that “Space Seed” was essentially a “bottle” ep., i,e, it all takes place on the ENT or Botany Bay, and has few SFX.
As much as it’s a coup having Abrams direct the thought of Spielberg directing a star trek movie is the stuff of fanboy dreams…maybe it isn’t as ‘out there’ as it seems…he never got to direct a star wars despite stating he wanted to plus he wanted to direct a bond film but never did (probably for the best as would we have still had Indiana Jones?)- so dosnt appear to be adverse to directing in an established series (and ST is classic sci fi space opera like SW and SW is over in terms of any new movies for now) Plus he had some input into the new Trek and maybe hes a big trek fan and has always wanted to do one..but the opportunity has never arisen before as although there were movies and saw some mainstream movie success with Treks I-IV it was still fairly cult based and became primarily a tv show again in the late 80s onward…but if the new film is a big hit and trek gets totally accepted by the mainstream star wars style perhaps it wont be so implausible.
Probably wont happen but would be amazing if it did….you never know…I used to think of how cool it would be if they did a mega budget trek film with big stars and a fresh big name creative team behind it…but never thought it would happen…
Hey, I like to see the insides of a sausage. It’s called haggis!
Is till maintain that although Nemesis obviously had its artistic problems, it would still have been a relative box office success if it had gotten semi-competent marketing.
@73…
Yo, AJ… nice thought! What about if Khan and his folks manage to steal the Enterprise with a little help Marla McGivers. Kirk and the core crew are left behind on the Botany Bay and are saved by Cyrano Jones (James Gandolfini). They catch up with the 1701, big space battle and later crashlanding of the saucer section on Ceti Alpha V…
Oh yeah and Khan steals all the female crew members’ uniforms, leaving them only space bikinis cos that’s the kinda guy he was – a red-blooded 20th Century man (probably used to read FHM and Nuts)
BONES: It would be most effective if you would cut the carotid artery
Just under the left ear.
KHAN: I like a brave man.
BONES: I was simply trying to avoid an argument.
Timeless lines for Urban and Bardem…
BONES: It would be most effective if you would cut the carotid artery
Just under the left ear.
KHAN: I like a brave man.
BONES: Hey, big boy. You’re pretty cute yourself.
KHAN: If I said you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me?
BONES: Maybe we could have a drink first?
END
@77… correction…
crash landing of the engineering section… we don’t want to repeat what that other movie did in the 90s…
Khan surfing on a single warp nacelle, like Dolittle in Dark Star…
I need to fire up Final Draft!
80.
BONES – I’m a doctor, not a go go dancer! …..I get off shift at 18.00.
I really like the idea of a Space Seed movie. And I like the idea of having either Javier Bardem or Antonio Banderas as Kahn. But I think that the space seed story should only be part of the story. Make it a key element to something bigger. And find a way to have Harry Mudd in it too. Because he’s a character that seems would have come back more if they could find a way. He’s a criminal in the future. A space pirate/ smuggler/ thief con artist. He can fit in any story, I think.
I think Seth Rogen is the only man who could play Harry Mudd.
By the way, does anyone know where Uhura’s station is on the new bridge? Is she one of the standing posts behind the captain’s chair? If so, which one?
Also, does anyone know if Spock has his scanner in his post on the bridge? You know that scanner that Spock would hunch over and look into, that glowed blue light?
I’d like to see a Eugenics War story. I like Gary Seven vs Khan!
Damian Lewis as Gary Seven.
84
I was thinkin’ Nick Frost as Harry Mudd.
I’d like to register my shudder at the very thought of a remake of “Space Seed.” So far, I seem to be the only one who finds the idea stupid, trite, and–above all–unnecessary when there are so many NEW stories to be told in the Trekverse, but I’m sure I’m not entirely alone.
Plus, how would you make a version of “Space Seed” that’s *better* than “Space Seed”? It smacks of the worst kind of fanwank that I hate so much in certain members of the canonista movement, only this fanwank springs from the rebootistas–a group that has so reliably and effectively decried fanwank in the past.
Now, all this being (rather vehemently) said, Javier Bardem would make a *great* Khan.
Ha ha! Thread killer!