Comments on: TOS-Remastered Review of “The Cage” w/ Video & Screeenshots http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/ the source for Star Trek news and information Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:53:45 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: MKSTEEL http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/comment-page-4/#comment-2267836 MKSTEEL Fri, 23 Oct 2009 14:05:54 +0000 http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/#comment-2267836 Nice remastering and CGI work, sad to hear that scenes were clipped for broadcast though. I own the restored color TOS DVD version and it plays the FULL episode, hopefully they include the full episode in the TOS-R Blue Ray/DVD release for season 3 remastered. Nice remastering and CGI work, sad to hear that scenes were clipped for broadcast though. I own the restored color TOS DVD version and it plays the FULL episode, hopefully they include the full episode in the TOS-R Blue Ray/DVD release for season 3 remastered.

]]> By: Adam Bomb 1701 http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/comment-page-4/#comment-2195418 Adam Bomb 1701 Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:22:19 +0000 http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/#comment-2195418 The syndicated run of the re-mastered episodes appears to be over, after three years. "The Cage" was repeated this past weekend, and any more re-mastered "Trek" is nowhere to be found on my local (NYC) schedule. I'll miss it, even though we had three stations running it in those three years. The syndicated run of the re-mastered episodes appears to be over, after three years. “The Cage” was repeated this past weekend, and any more re-mastered “Trek” is nowhere to be found on my local (NYC) schedule. I’ll miss it, even though we had three stations running it in those three years.

]]> By: anonymous http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/comment-page-4/#comment-1808165 anonymous Sat, 09 May 2009 16:08:03 +0000 http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/#comment-1808165 I agree with the rest of you. It is annoying that the syndicated version was edited into a standard 60 minute episode. The original running time of "The Cage' is 64 minutes. It is just the right length for a 90 minute timeslot (with commercials). I don't understand why CBS didn't just syndicate it as a 90 minute episode instead of cutting it down to 60 minutes. I agree with the rest of you. It is annoying that the syndicated version was edited into a standard 60 minute episode. The original running time of “The Cage’ is 64 minutes. It is just the right length for a 90 minute timeslot (with commercials). I don’t understand why CBS didn’t just syndicate it as a 90 minute episode instead of cutting it down to 60 minutes.

]]> By: Matt Wright http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/comment-page-4/#comment-1799738 Matt Wright Wed, 06 May 2009 16:40:50 +0000 http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/#comment-1799738 Finally watched the syndicated version on my DVR, man is it chopped up, looks nice though :-) Finally watched the syndicated version on my DVR, man is it chopped up, looks nice though :-)

]]> By: RD http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/comment-page-4/#comment-1798148 RD Wed, 06 May 2009 02:11:56 +0000 http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/#comment-1798148 #169. swh1939 – PLEASE make youtube videos of the changed sections and post them like these scenes deleted from "Where No Man Has one Before" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xe5SUxq25I I would love to see it issued in its original pilot format as well. #169. swh1939 – PLEASE make youtube videos of the changed sections and post them like these scenes deleted from “Where No Man Has one Before”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xe5SUxq25I

I would love to see it issued in its original pilot format as well.

]]> By: swh1939 http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/comment-page-4/#comment-1795928 swh1939 Tue, 05 May 2009 12:38:40 +0000 http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/#comment-1795928 167. GNDN - May 4, 2009 Asherman’s book, which formed the basis for a generation’s understanding of Trek, has been sadly exposed. Many of the claims made were spurious and without any support. Books by Solow, Justman, Shatner, and Nimoy agree on many of the production details that contradict Asherman’s 168. RD - May 4, 2009 MALACHI THRONE DID IN FACT OVER DUB THE KEEPER’S VOICE IN THE CAGE AND THEY PITCHED UP AND RESUED THE VERY SAME TRACKS FOR THE MENAGERIE. The audio evidence analysis is overwhelming. Not to mention the fact they could not have pitched up the Keeper’s voice to match the Menagerie processing in the “restored” sections of the “re-mastered” Cage without individual elements. ------- I love you guys. Finally, I've seen evidence that I'm not the only one who has realized this. For myself, I re-edited "The Cage" using the original Keeper's voice from a tape I made in 1985 at a convention where Gene Roddenberry showed the all black and white print. Sometimes I could use the voice from "The Menagerie" that I had pitched down myself, other times I used the convention recording (sometimes with the audience being a little noisy, lol). I also corrected several music cues and restored two lines of dialog, all of which have yet to see the light of day through Paramount. Please Paramount, now that you've given us the best quality versions, now please give us the raw materials: the entire B&W print and the entire "found" color print (which apparently has no soundtrack). We won't care if they're 'inferior quality' ... we want them anyhow. 167. GNDN – May 4, 2009
Asherman’s book, which formed the basis for a generation’s understanding of Trek, has been sadly exposed. Many of the claims made were spurious and without any support. Books by Solow, Justman, Shatner, and Nimoy agree on many of the production details that contradict Asherman’s

168. RD – May 4, 2009
MALACHI THRONE DID IN FACT OVER DUB THE KEEPER’S VOICE IN THE CAGE AND THEY PITCHED UP AND RESUED THE VERY SAME TRACKS FOR THE MENAGERIE. The audio evidence analysis is overwhelming. Not to mention the fact they could not have pitched up the Keeper’s voice to match the Menagerie processing in the “restored” sections of the “re-mastered” Cage without individual elements.

——-

I love you guys. Finally, I’ve seen evidence that I’m not the only one who has realized this. For myself, I re-edited “The Cage” using the original Keeper’s voice from a tape I made in 1985 at a convention where Gene Roddenberry showed the all black and white print. Sometimes I could use the voice from “The Menagerie” that I had pitched down myself, other times I used the convention recording (sometimes with the audience being a little noisy, lol). I also corrected several music cues and restored two lines of dialog, all of which have yet to see the light of day through Paramount. Please Paramount, now that you’ve given us the best quality versions, now please give us the raw materials: the entire B&W print and the entire “found” color print (which apparently has no soundtrack). We won’t care if they’re ‘inferior quality’ … we want them anyhow.

]]> By: RD http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/comment-page-4/#comment-1794818 RD Tue, 05 May 2009 05:05:20 +0000 http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/#comment-1794818 #141 Magic Al, you could not be more wrong, for reasons as pointed out above and as follow: MALACHI THRONE DID IN FACT OVER DUB THE KEEPER'S VOICE IN THE CAGE AND THEY PITCHED UP AND RESUED THE VERY SAME TRACKS FOR THE MENAGERIE. The pertinent detail you are missing from your argument is that B&W work prints do not have sound striped on them. Further they discovered the 3 workprint sound elements which is why the sound is still so bad (workprints are several generations away from the originals). The audio evidence analysis is overwhelming. Not to mention the fact they could not have pitched up the Keeper's voice to match the Menagerie processing in the "restored" sections of the "re-mastered" Cage without individual elements. Go to this link and starting about entry #114 ENGON to the LAST you'll get all the details: http://trekmovie.com/2009/04/29/exclusive-interview-with-mike-okuda-talking-the-cage-tos-r-on-blu-ray-more/ #141 Magic Al, you could not be more wrong, for reasons as pointed out above and as follow:

MALACHI THRONE DID IN FACT OVER DUB THE KEEPER’S VOICE IN THE CAGE AND THEY PITCHED UP AND RESUED THE VERY SAME TRACKS FOR THE MENAGERIE. The pertinent detail you are missing from your argument is that B&W work prints do not have sound striped on them. Further they discovered the 3 workprint sound elements which is why the sound is still so bad (workprints are several generations away from the originals). The audio evidence analysis is overwhelming. Not to mention the fact they could not have pitched up the Keeper’s voice to match the Menagerie processing in the “restored” sections of the “re-mastered” Cage without individual elements.

Go to this link and starting about entry #114 ENGON to the LAST you’ll get all the details:

http://trekmovie.com/2009/04/29/exclusive-interview-with-mike-okuda-talking-the-cage-tos-r-on-blu-ray-more/

]]> By: GNDN http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/comment-page-4/#comment-1794745 GNDN Tue, 05 May 2009 04:24:35 +0000 http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/#comment-1794745 I remeber the G4 cut of this episode and it was really, really funny. It made no sense, but it was a hoot. This current iteration at least is coherent. By excising the entire Rigel sequence, the episode is at least intelligible. It also allowed for at least portions of the so-called lost footage to be shown. Any time you try to shoehorn a film originally meant as an hour and a half special into a 60 minute slot, editorial choices must be made. While losing Rigel was regrettable, the greater good of an intelligible presentation was maintained. As an aside, I saw the Roddenberry work print in Detroit in 1980. That was Malachi Throne on that print and it is Malachi Throne, albeit pitched up and otherwise modified, in "The Menagerie" and the restored print. As if the actor who voiced the Keeper was coincidentally hired to play another character in the two-part episode. Logic alone dictates that since you are already paying Throne for "The Cage," it would make sense to pay him for the few extra lines needed as the Keeper in addition to his work as Mendez. Asherman's book, which formed the basis for a generation's understanding of Trek, has been sadly exposed. Many of the claims made were spurious and without any support. Books by Solow, Justman, Shatner, and Nimoy agree on many of the production details that contradict Asherman's I remeber the G4 cut of this episode and it was really, really funny. It made no sense, but it was a hoot.

This current iteration at least is coherent. By excising the entire Rigel sequence, the episode is at least intelligible. It also allowed for at least portions of the so-called lost footage to be shown.
Any time you try to shoehorn a film originally meant as an hour and a half special into a 60 minute slot, editorial choices must be made. While losing Rigel was regrettable, the greater good of an intelligible presentation was maintained.

As an aside, I saw the Roddenberry work print in Detroit in 1980. That was Malachi Throne on that print and it is Malachi Throne, albeit pitched up and otherwise modified, in “The Menagerie” and the restored print. As if the actor who voiced the Keeper was coincidentally hired to play another character in the two-part episode. Logic alone dictates that since you are already paying Throne for “The Cage,” it would make sense to pay him for the few extra lines needed as the Keeper in addition to his work as Mendez.

Asherman’s book, which formed the basis for a generation’s understanding of Trek, has been sadly exposed. Many of the claims made were spurious and without any support. Books by Solow, Justman, Shatner, and Nimoy agree on many of the production details that contradict Asherman’s

]]> By: Daoud http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/comment-page-4/#comment-1794736 Daoud Tue, 05 May 2009 04:21:10 +0000 http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/#comment-1794736 #165 Interesting, but I think Chris Doohan can dispel that theory. #147 Maybe it wasn't Mendez, but just an illusion! ;) Actually, I was there, that wasn't Mendez, it was Senator Pardek in disguise as a human! ;) #others Having Malachi come in and redub all of the Keeper voice would have been an interesting concept. Wonder if the Okudas considered it!? Mike? you still around? Leads into the idea before Shatner, Nimoy, Takei and Nichols aren't available of redubbing and adding lines and expanding TAS with CGI and using Remastered type space scenes... what a fun project that would be... but unlikely now. At least if more McCoy lines were needed... Urban's shown he can channel! #165 Interesting, but I think Chris Doohan can dispel that theory.

#147 Maybe it wasn’t Mendez, but just an illusion! ;) Actually, I was there, that wasn’t Mendez, it was Senator Pardek in disguise as a human! ;)

#others Having Malachi come in and redub all of the Keeper voice would have been an interesting concept. Wonder if the Okudas considered it!? Mike? you still around?

Leads into the idea before Shatner, Nimoy, Takei and Nichols aren’t available of redubbing and adding lines and expanding TAS with CGI and using Remastered type space scenes… what a fun project that would be… but unlikely now.

At least if more McCoy lines were needed… Urban’s shown he can channel!

]]> By: Jeff Bond http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/comment-page-4/#comment-1794667 Jeff Bond Tue, 05 May 2009 03:48:33 +0000 http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/02/tos-remastered-review-of-the-cage-w-video-screeenshots/#comment-1794667 Conspiracy theories notwithstanding, it would cost Paramount incredible amounts of money to convincingly colorize black and white footage, probably at least as much as they spent redoing effects for this project. Here's my conspiracy theory--I'm willing to bet James Doohan redubbed the voice of the Keeper. The new Keeper voice is similar to some of Doohan's alien voices done both for the original series and the animated series--Doohan was "on staff" and available to do this sort of thing and was quite good at it. Conspiracy theories notwithstanding, it would cost Paramount incredible amounts of money to convincingly colorize black and white footage, probably at least as much as they spent redoing effects for this project.

Here’s my conspiracy theory–I’m willing to bet James Doohan redubbed the voice of the Keeper. The new Keeper voice is similar to some of Doohan’s alien voices done both for the original series and the animated series–Doohan was “on staff” and available to do this sort of thing and was quite good at it.

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