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	<title>Comments on: ST09 Tidbits (T+4) Spock Prime Image + Bill/JJ Hug + Church&#8217;s Enterprise Art + Post-movie Analysis + more</title>
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	<link>http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/11/st09-tidbits-t4-spock-prime-image-billjj-hug-churchs-enterprise-art-post-movie-analysis-more/</link>
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		<title>By: MrSpock</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/11/st09-tidbits-t4-spock-prime-image-billjj-hug-churchs-enterprise-art-post-movie-analysis-more/comment-page-5/#comment-1823880</link>
		<dc:creator>MrSpock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 03:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/?p=3314#comment-1823880</guid>
		<description>I think It was very good over all. But I do agree with 127 on a few points...especially with Kirk&#039;s character....Its a little unreasonable ...one minute hes some bar brawling punk...the next hes sitting in the captains chair...ridiculous. Also, Would like to have seen some connection with Nero to the new nacelle design. Furthermore, why the heck would they SEND 200 YEAR OLD SPOCK BY HIMSELF TO SAVE ROMULUS (and presumably Remus though not mentioned). Finally, I hope they realize that their little trick they used to get around Trek Doctrine (ie the &#039;Prime&#039; universe) does not affect what happened in Enterprise. Also messy is how it works with the paradox of past excursions into the past...This aint Star Wars...these things have to be explained....carefully to the physicists and engineers that make up the ST fan base!
I disagree with 127 about Spock, Kirk and Scotty all being together...I think the script made clear (especially through Spock Prime) that *Fate was afoot.(though Im a little worried about putting a concept like fate in ST unsupported with logic...but I think It was done right)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think It was very good over all. But I do agree with 127 on a few points&#8230;especially with Kirk&#8217;s character&#8230;.Its a little unreasonable &#8230;one minute hes some bar brawling punk&#8230;the next hes sitting in the captains chair&#8230;ridiculous. Also, Would like to have seen some connection with Nero to the new nacelle design. Furthermore, why the heck would they SEND 200 YEAR OLD SPOCK BY HIMSELF TO SAVE ROMULUS (and presumably Remus though not mentioned). Finally, I hope they realize that their little trick they used to get around Trek Doctrine (ie the &#8216;Prime&#8217; universe) does not affect what happened in Enterprise. Also messy is how it works with the paradox of past excursions into the past&#8230;This aint Star Wars&#8230;these things have to be explained&#8230;.carefully to the physicists and engineers that make up the ST fan base!<br />
I disagree with 127 about Spock, Kirk and Scotty all being together&#8230;I think the script made clear (especially through Spock Prime) that *Fate was afoot.(though Im a little worried about putting a concept like fate in ST unsupported with logic&#8230;but I think It was done right)</p>
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		<title>By: Forrest</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/11/st09-tidbits-t4-spock-prime-image-billjj-hug-churchs-enterprise-art-post-movie-analysis-more/comment-page-5/#comment-1821053</link>
		<dc:creator>Forrest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 17:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/?p=3314#comment-1821053</guid>
		<description>My reading comprehension&#039;s fine, thanks.

Imagine Nero destroying the Earth first, and O/K still declaring &quot;no, we&#039;re done with time travel even though it&#039;s possible&quot;. It&#039;s manifestly ludicrous, but no more so except to the audience; the characters won&#039;t see it that way.

As to those other debatably rollback-worthy events -- they are indeed debate-worthy. So long as it&#039;s a known option, it must be considered. To ignore it is a defect, perhaps forgivable but a defect nonetheless. (TOS, of course, had more or less deliberately random stardates, meaning one can never be entirely sure that the time-travel episodes didn&#039;t happen after all the others, and the consequences never known. ASSIGNMENT: EARTH might well have been the last episode...)

To paraphrase Douglas Adams, &quot;Time travel: loathe it or like it, you can&#039;t ignore it.&quot; Hence the desirability of doing a clean reboot with time travel declared off-limits from start.

But of course they can always count on the fans to patch things for them. I myself just figured out a credible way for those post-apocalyptic cavemen in BATTLEFIELD EARTH to fly thousand-year-old Harriers, and I didn&#039;t even like that movie...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My reading comprehension&#8217;s fine, thanks.</p>
<p>Imagine Nero destroying the Earth first, and O/K still declaring &#8220;no, we&#8217;re done with time travel even though it&#8217;s possible&#8221;. It&#8217;s manifestly ludicrous, but no more so except to the audience; the characters won&#8217;t see it that way.</p>
<p>As to those other debatably rollback-worthy events &#8212; they are indeed debate-worthy. So long as it&#8217;s a known option, it must be considered. To ignore it is a defect, perhaps forgivable but a defect nonetheless. (TOS, of course, had more or less deliberately random stardates, meaning one can never be entirely sure that the time-travel episodes didn&#8217;t happen after all the others, and the consequences never known. ASSIGNMENT: EARTH might well have been the last episode&#8230;)</p>
<p>To paraphrase Douglas Adams, &#8220;Time travel: loathe it or like it, you can&#8217;t ignore it.&#8221; Hence the desirability of doing a clean reboot with time travel declared off-limits from start.</p>
<p>But of course they can always count on the fans to patch things for them. I myself just figured out a credible way for those post-apocalyptic cavemen in BATTLEFIELD EARTH to fly thousand-year-old Harriers, and I didn&#8217;t even like that movie&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: LordCheeseCakeBreath</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/11/st09-tidbits-t4-spock-prime-image-billjj-hug-churchs-enterprise-art-post-movie-analysis-more/comment-page-5/#comment-1818429</link>
		<dc:creator>LordCheeseCakeBreath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 16:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/?p=3314#comment-1818429</guid>
		<description>224, True.  They are pretty funny!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>224, True.  They are pretty funny!</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Image</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/11/st09-tidbits-t4-spock-prime-image-billjj-hug-churchs-enterprise-art-post-movie-analysis-more/comment-page-5/#comment-1818413</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Image</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 16:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/?p=3314#comment-1818413</guid>
		<description>#224 Barcode scanners- They&#039;re there to give us something to laugh at!
Remember- it&#039;s all about entertainment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#224 Barcode scanners- They&#8217;re there to give us something to laugh at!<br />
Remember- it&#8217;s all about entertainment.</p>
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		<title>By: Closettrekker</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/11/st09-tidbits-t4-spock-prime-image-billjj-hug-churchs-enterprise-art-post-movie-analysis-more/comment-page-5/#comment-1818362</link>
		<dc:creator>Closettrekker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 15:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/?p=3314#comment-1818362</guid>
		<description>&quot;Relatively little, most likely, as John W Campbell pointed out decades ago in an essay titled “No Copying Allowed”, and as Arthur C Clarke put more poetically later, unless technological progress had slowed down considerably.&quot;


I&#039;m not sure how that would preclude Starfleet from making use of the recorded telemetry from the Narada (no doubt brought aboard one of the shuttles by one of  the 800 survivors from the USS Kelvin) and the debris salvaged from the area of the attack over the next two decades.

&quot;Imagine the Warren Commission discovering that Lee Harvey Oswald was from 2063 and considering it an unimportant detail.&quot;

Who says that Starfleet would consider any of the details of these events to be unimportant?

What  I said was that one of the writers of the sequel has made clear that they won&#039;t be telling another story involving time travel. That is not the same thing as suggesting that Starfleet is going to pretend it did not happen or ignore the potential scientific ramifications of these events.

Suggestion: reading comprehension.

Try reading the post to which the response was made. That may help you to view the statement in its appropriate context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Relatively little, most likely, as John W Campbell pointed out decades ago in an essay titled “No Copying Allowed”, and as Arthur C Clarke put more poetically later, unless technological progress had slowed down considerably.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how that would preclude Starfleet from making use of the recorded telemetry from the Narada (no doubt brought aboard one of the shuttles by one of  the 800 survivors from the USS Kelvin) and the debris salvaged from the area of the attack over the next two decades.</p>
<p>&#8220;Imagine the Warren Commission discovering that Lee Harvey Oswald was from 2063 and considering it an unimportant detail.&#8221;</p>
<p>Who says that Starfleet would consider any of the details of these events to be unimportant?</p>
<p>What  I said was that one of the writers of the sequel has made clear that they won&#8217;t be telling another story involving time travel. That is not the same thing as suggesting that Starfleet is going to pretend it did not happen or ignore the potential scientific ramifications of these events.</p>
<p>Suggestion: reading comprehension.</p>
<p>Try reading the post to which the response was made. That may help you to view the statement in its appropriate context.</p>
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		<title>By: Closettrekker</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/11/st09-tidbits-t4-spock-prime-image-billjj-hug-churchs-enterprise-art-post-movie-analysis-more/comment-page-5/#comment-1818340</link>
		<dc:creator>Closettrekker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 15:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/?p=3314#comment-1818340</guid>
		<description>#194----Actually, I was referencing &quot;Yesteryear&quot;, an episode of TAS written by Dorothy Fontana and generally considered canon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#194&#8212;-Actually, I was referencing &#8220;Yesteryear&#8221;, an episode of TAS written by Dorothy Fontana and generally considered canon.</p>
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		<title>By: So-Much-Cooler-In-Person</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/11/st09-tidbits-t4-spock-prime-image-billjj-hug-churchs-enterprise-art-post-movie-analysis-more/comment-page-5/#comment-1818324</link>
		<dc:creator>So-Much-Cooler-In-Person</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 15:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/?p=3314#comment-1818324</guid>
		<description>#132

I know this is fiction, but some of the points I&#039;ve made are about as contrived as a really bad slasher film.  This is the creative team behind the series &quot;Lost&quot; which is the most incredible plot-storyline-continuity effort there&#039;s ever been, especially considering it has spanned 4 seasons.  I&#039;m disappointed because this brilliant group of talent couldn&#039;t be more imaginative with their plot points in roughly 2 hours with well-known establisged characters--and believe me--I&#039;m not a fan with an obsession for canon.  Kirk&#039;s portrayal as a delinquent who has to have his own way is the equvalent of Annikan Skywalker&#039;s spoiled rotten brat.  I don&#039;t care what kind of timeline tampering you have it just doesn&#039;t ring true.  Now unless there was a large amount of exposition left on the cutting room floor, ther&#039;s some holes in the script you could drive the Enterprise through.  I wanted this to be the greatest movie of all time &amp; it wasn&#039;t.  In fact, despite all the money &amp; talent, it&#039;s not even the best Trek film.  However, like many of you--and Spiderman 3 is a good example--dood Star Trek is not as good as great Star Trek, but it&#039;s better than no Trek at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#132</p>
<p>I know this is fiction, but some of the points I&#8217;ve made are about as contrived as a really bad slasher film.  This is the creative team behind the series &#8220;Lost&#8221; which is the most incredible plot-storyline-continuity effort there&#8217;s ever been, especially considering it has spanned 4 seasons.  I&#8217;m disappointed because this brilliant group of talent couldn&#8217;t be more imaginative with their plot points in roughly 2 hours with well-known establisged characters&#8211;and believe me&#8211;I&#8217;m not a fan with an obsession for canon.  Kirk&#8217;s portrayal as a delinquent who has to have his own way is the equvalent of Annikan Skywalker&#8217;s spoiled rotten brat.  I don&#8217;t care what kind of timeline tampering you have it just doesn&#8217;t ring true.  Now unless there was a large amount of exposition left on the cutting room floor, ther&#8217;s some holes in the script you could drive the Enterprise through.  I wanted this to be the greatest movie of all time &amp; it wasn&#8217;t.  In fact, despite all the money &amp; talent, it&#8217;s not even the best Trek film.  However, like many of you&#8211;and Spiderman 3 is a good example&#8211;dood Star Trek is not as good as great Star Trek, but it&#8217;s better than no Trek at all.</p>
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		<title>By: LordCheeseCakeBreath</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/11/st09-tidbits-t4-spock-prime-image-billjj-hug-churchs-enterprise-art-post-movie-analysis-more/comment-page-5/#comment-1818247</link>
		<dc:creator>LordCheeseCakeBreath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 14:29:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/?p=3314#comment-1818247</guid>
		<description>I looked and didn&#039;t see a use for the barcode scanners.  My brother asked me &quot;what do those upc scanners do&quot;  

Anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I looked and didn&#8217;t see a use for the barcode scanners.  My brother asked me &#8220;what do those upc scanners do&#8221;  </p>
<p>Anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: Hat Rick</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/11/st09-tidbits-t4-spock-prime-image-billjj-hug-churchs-enterprise-art-post-movie-analysis-more/comment-page-5/#comment-1818224</link>
		<dc:creator>Hat Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 14:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/?p=3314#comment-1818224</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll be looking forward to the new technical manual as well, Mr. Sternbach.  It will be nonstop hours of reading on the day I buy it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll be looking forward to the new technical manual as well, Mr. Sternbach.  It will be nonstop hours of reading on the day I buy it!</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Sternbach</title>
		<link>http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/11/st09-tidbits-t4-spock-prime-image-billjj-hug-churchs-enterprise-art-post-movie-analysis-more/comment-page-5/#comment-1818200</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Sternbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 14:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trekmovie.com/?p=3314#comment-1818200</guid>
		<description>#214 - That&#039;s interesting; will be looking forward to seeing it. I suspect that it&#039;s a collaborative deal because Simon &amp; Schuster can&#039;t afford to do it on their own. They&#039;d been whining over the last 5-6 years that &quot;the market isn&#039;t what it used to be,&quot; which is probably true, but they never did a lot to promote products either. Classic author vs. publisher thing. Ah well, mark your calendars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#214 &#8211; That&#8217;s interesting; will be looking forward to seeing it. I suspect that it&#8217;s a collaborative deal because Simon &amp; Schuster can&#8217;t afford to do it on their own. They&#8217;d been whining over the last 5-6 years that &#8220;the market isn&#8217;t what it used to be,&#8221; which is probably true, but they never did a lot to promote products either. Classic author vs. publisher thing. Ah well, mark your calendars.</p>
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