Star Trek Now 2nd Highest Grossing Film of 2009 Domestically & 4th Highest Globally May 20, 2009
by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback
Star Trek continues to battle it out with Angels and Demons at the domestic box office, with the movie coming in a close second on Tuesday with $3.4M vs. Angels & Demons $3.6M. This brings Trek’s domestic total up to $155.5M which means it has passed Wolverine for total sales and is now the 2nd highest grossing film of 2009.
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Star Trek headed to top of the charts
For domestic box office Star Trek has been the fastest big earner of the year, taking just seven days to cross $100M and 11 days to cross $150.
Here are the top 5 films of 2009 so far (via BOM)
| 2009 movies | Domestic box office (Millions) |
| Monsters v. Aliens | $191.3 |
| Star Trek | $155.5 |
| X-Men Origins: Wolverine | $153.5 |
| Fast and Furious | $153.1 |
| Paul Blart: Mall Cop | $146.1 |
Even though two big movies are opening this Memorial Day weekend (Terminator Salvation and Night at the Museum: Battle at the Smithsonian), Star Trek could still go over the top to be #1 by this time next week (possibly over $200M). Of course mega films like Harry Potter, UP, and Transformers (and possibly Terminator) will end up in the final top slots, but Star Trek has a good chance of being in the top 5 by the end of the year.
One thing working in Star Trek’s favor right now is the first reviews of Terminator Salvation (opening at midnight shows tonight) are not very good. Rotten Tomatoes rating for Terminator is 38%. Night at the Museum 2 isn’t faring much better, garnering a 50% rating. Star Trek’s rating is still at 95%.
Different story globally – Trek strong in some markets but struggling in others
Although Star Trek is a hit ‘with legs’ domestically, so far it has been a mixed bag internationally. Star Trek is currently in 4th place for 2009 global box office, when you add in its international sales of 67.7M.
| 2009 movies | Global box office (Millions) |
| Monsters v. Aliens | $334.3 |
| Fast and Furious | $323.9 |
| X-Men Origins: Wolverine | $276.5 |
| Star Trek | $223.3 |
| Taken | $220.8 |
Although Star Trek is performing better than any previous Trek film overseas, it is still struggling in many big markets. Star Trek has performed very well in the UK, Germany, Australia and New Zealand, all of which have been traditionally good for Trek. But in most other countries Star Trek has not performed like a summer blockbuster tentpole (with Wolverine outselling it 2-1 in many markets). In France, Korea and Italy, Star Trek opened in second place and in Spain it opened in 3rd place behind the Hannah Montana movie and the 2nd week of Wolverine.
Star Trek still has more markets to open internationally, but it is likely to make around 1/3 of its money overseas, which is about the same as the last few films in the franchise.
IMAX REMINDER: Star Trek limited run ends this week
Star Trek is playing at IMAX theaters around the world, but that all ends with Night at the Museum opens on Friday. Some theaters will be running Star Trek midnight shows over the weekend, but if you want to be sure to see Star Trek on IMAX (and trust me it is worth it), then you better hurry up.
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Way to go!
Monsters vs. Aliens was incredible. xD Hysterically funny.
But I’m so happy to see ‘Trek as numero dos! Fantastic! ^__^
I heard that the promotion overseas was rather piss poor compared to here in the states.
I wish they could have had more IMAX screens in Canada. I missed out seeing it there.
Saw it a 3rd time last night. Gets better with each viewing. Might go one more time in a weeks time before its out of theaters here.
I’m going tomorrow, 5th time, 2nd in Imax, 1st in an Imaz Dome. This movie deserves the business. I wonder if it will earn anyone outiside of the tech categories an Oscar Nom?
Any news on how it is doing in Japan?
The Promotions here in Ireland i thought was very good, there where posters everywhere, competitions on the a few radio stations that ran for weeks , pullout magazine in the papers , of course the breakfast ceral and burger king stuff , decent amount of ads on tv. Plus other small things like normal book shops putting all there star trek books on display in the window , or dvd shops getting lots of the old movies in .
so yea the movie go the promotions of a big summer blackbuster here anyway.
Star Trek hasn’t opened in Japan, not until next friday
I just saw that here in Wellington New Zealand the Embassy theatre (where they had the massive Lord of the Rings ROTK premier) is increasing it’s run of ST:09 as it was initially only there for one week only but is “back by popular demand” this week and has equal showings with A&Ds.
It would be rude not to go see it again there (tally so far is 3 including Sydney premier)!!
If anyone has the chance to come to Wellywood this is the cinema to go to!!
Does it look any good in IMAX dome? I saw it in normal Imax, but there is a dome near me too. It is great for documentaries and all, but I’m not sure how it would look for normal movies.
Again, best trek movie of all time!!!!!
For all of the lip-service the franchise pays to diversity, Star Trek has always been fairly “ethnocentric.” As such, it isn’t terribly surprising that the movie is doing far better in the Anglosphere than in areas with other cultural influences.
This is all too surreal to me! Trekkies are spreading faster than Swine Flu!
The key is it’s done extremely well and guaranteed a sequel.
That it isn’t the highest grossest movie matters not.
That the franchise is alive and financially viable, does!
News for folks like me
IMAX here are going to show Star Trek until end of the first week of June. Individual IMAX’s may differ but this is for certain for the one in Glasgow (the ONLY one in Scotland :( )
So you have a bit more time over here
#15 Well said dalek!
Yes, it’s always nice to be in the same company as Paul Blart: Mall Cop. Sort of takes a little of the wind out of one’s sails.
it will be interesting to se what the final box office tally will be, then there is the dvd sales after wards should be nice an profitable fo the studio and the franchise.
We might get another 2 or three sequels out of it.
@15 Well said, bring on the sequel!
I see this bringing in the same numbers as ‘Batman Begins’ did, around $250 million domestically.
I’m goin’ to see it for the fourth time friday…….here on Brazil the movie didn’t fared so well in the box office….
but everytime I went to see it, people came out talking very high of the movie, and my brother and cousin are on the way to become Trek fans, especially my cousin. I showed her Return of the Archons and she loved it! she wants to follow Landru now! LOL.
Anxious for my 4th time no Trek
\\//
(sorry for the rather bad english……)
Anxious for my 4th time ON Trek
sorry…….
I love this movie! I am hoping that we get a Second Chance to see the New Enterprise in Action! I for one at least hope the next movie has Nurse Chapel in it and a Mention of the Prime Directive!
McCoy did yell at Nurse Chapel off screen, next movie scarlett johansson can play her, shwing.
Yes Gustavo, but is she of the body?And where can we meet for festival?(Not to be confused with Seinfels Festivus for the restvof us ha ha!
#7
Erm . . . .What promotions?
Sporadic TV ads, magazine pics, though the magazines were british. Radio spots? Jerry Ryan. . . I really thought the promotion was piss poor here. Espically in comparison to Wolverene.
Yeah, Wolverine was still #1 here in my side of the world during Trek’s opening weekend. But I noticed Trek was on 40 less theaters than Wolverine here, so that may have contributed to it. I think Wolverine (X-Men) is still a more recognizable name/brand here. Kids are more inclined to drag their parents to see it, same as with the likes of Transformers. It’s quite sad, really, because I hope that more of the younger generation will see Trek and get into the franchise, as it still remains to be one of the best examples of good science there is.
Eep, I meant Science Fiction in my post (#27.) Sorry.
In Venezuela the movie had no real publicity so that might explain how it is doing. But anyway the WOM has been great. People talk about it and I’m impressed, I feel like I was the only real Trekkie in the city, lol
20. Fletch Gannon — Batman Begins only made $205 million domestically, not $250 million. Worldwide, it made $372.7 million. Star Trek should make around $230 million domestically and another $140 million from foreign markets, for a total of around $370 million worldwide. So, globally, Trek looks like it will do about as well as BB. :)
Go Star Trek, Go Star Trek!
Seeing it on an IMAX is amazing. I did 4hrs of driving to see it a 2nd time on IMAX and it was worth it. It makes normal theater screens and sound systems feel like small TV sets. If you have to take a day off work to go see it at an IMAX, do it. You’ll never have the opportunity again and it is beyond words how much better it is on an IMAX screen.
Let’s not get carried away here. I am just glad ST is back, is well done AND is successfull. It’s been years since that was the case.
Although maybe more $$$ at the boxoffice might hasten the return of ST on the small screen. (Bob, hows about it?)
Saw Trek on IMAX dome as second viewing. Do not recommend it. Too much going on in some of the scenes that it was hard to concentrate in the domed IMAX. Couldn’t get the full picture. I’ve seen shorter, calmer (?) documentaries there but the 2 hour movie gave me a headache. I might have to go to an IMAX theater with stadium seating to get it done right (but the sound–OMG!!!).
#3 As a UK citizen I would certainly say the coverage and publicity was good here- but it wasn’t great. I think word of mouth made the big difference. Plus many long time fans went more than once, so that will have helped the numbers.
My real worry is the next movie. Unless they can come up with something quite spectacular to cover for the diminishing novelty value of seeing a new group of actors, then I fear we could end up with the usual slide in interest. They have a far bigger load on them for the next movie.
There was almost no promotion here in Singapore. A couple of TV spots running up to opening day, a couple of newspaper articles trying to play up a Trek-Wars rivalry (most that felt forced), nary a contest to win tie-in merchandise. It’s almost as if the movie’s been forgotten here, even though it was #1 in it’s opening week, and #2 in its sophomore.
I’m glad to say good word-of-mouth is allowing it to maintain steam though! Many of my friends are now looking to me to provide them with further info about Trek.
Not to be a killjoy or anything, but this Memorial Day weekend is going to be brutal for Trek’s box office take. With Terminator: Salvation and Night At The Museum 2 coming out this weekend, you can pretty much guarantee that Trek will be pushed down to #4 in the top 5, MAYBE #3 if Angels and Demons has a big drop-off. T4 is the new shiny object everyone’s going to be distracted by, even though it’s getting abysmal ratings on Rotten Tomatoes and other review sites, and NatM2 is the kid-friendly feature for the holiday weekend.
So, yeah…Star Trek’s going to have a LOT of competition this weekend. Let’s hope it can retain a top-5 spot.
Just saw it for my second time again in IMAX (first time was opening night!) and loved it even more the second time around! What a truly spectacular movie. IMAX is a must!
Wow! Comments on TREK from Venezuela? from Brazil? UK, Canada, Singapore, New Zealand, Scotland and countless others in previous threads on this web site. paraphrasing Scotty, “ees exciting!!!”
I am so pumped reading comments from so many other countries. It truly is amazing that Star Trek has been a part of our culture (both here and abroad) for the past 43 years!
That is so exciting!!!!
I’ve said this before, but am repeating it again. Anthony, you have to be proud seeing how your site is so internationally read; having such international participation; and providing us with such international insight.
Just saw Terminator Salvation.
Star Trek has nothing to worry about.
#3. Devon – May 20, 2009
I heard that the promotion overseas was rather piss poor compared to here in the states.
Promotion overseas?!?! What promotion? What is Star Trek???
41. Santos (Portugal) – May 21, 2009
In Portugal there was virtually no promotion. Only in cable networks..no promotion in national channels. Angels and Demons was all over the place…
In my city (Funchal – Madeira island), almost no one went to see the movie…
Just saw it again for the 4th time at the Imax in Fort Lauderdale. The 11:00 showing was 2/3 full, the one before at 8PM was sold out and they said it was selling out all week. NATM is starting on Friday but the guy in the ticket booth said that they might add some late night showings of Star Trek because demand is still so high.
Got to say.. the prmotion here in the UK (IMO) was awful, I have seen two bill boards for it, and the TV adverts only came (in any real quantity) around 3 days after release. The publicity that there was, seemed mainly down to newspapers, and TV reporting on it, rather than any push by Paramount… felt very much that Paramount just counted on the UK as being a “safe” market.
I am still waiting for my copy of the trade paper back of Countdown to be delivered.. and release here in the UK is now stated as the 29th of May! I appreciate that Paramount have no control over this, but you would figure that the “publicity machine” would maybe work a tad more in unison with other parties.
That all said, the IMAX in London, has been completely sold out with each screening between release and the 4th of June (so much so that they have introduced 02:30AM! and 05:30AM! screenings).
I went to my local VUE cinema (in Staines) last night, to watch the film for the 3rd time (loved it all over again), and was very pleased to see the cinema full, not bad for a Weds night!..
NO movie deserves to open in third place behind the Hannah Montana movie.
Well… maybe Insurrection.
still going strong in the Uk, went to see it again last night and every showing was fully booked! shame i got in late and had to sit in the front row.
Im sure it will stay a strong film for a while yet from word of mouth.
I hate to be harsh but the reason for the poor results in those countries is because they simply don’t get Star Trek and never will unless it was a brainless movie like Wolverine and called something other than Star Trek.
I’m not too surprised about the “overseas” box office results. Paramount knew they had an uphill battle and the did try some new things, like the premier road show. If “Star Trek” does as well as previous movies in the series then at least it has not slipped in popularity and can, hopefully, continue an upward march.
As far as I know, First Contact was (an maybe will be) the biggest Trek-hit in Germany so far. It seems not, that Star Trek will top that.
# 47
So, why Illuminati runs well then in this countries?
I think it’s just not the right time for Star Trek in this countries. That’s all.
#47… I do get part of what your saying, but to say these countries “just don’t get it, and would only like something brainless”, is just arogant, and quite insulting to people from them countries.
The fact is, tastes around the world vary, and maybe in some territories, Trek isn’t to local taste, as much as it is in other countries where it has more of a following…. as the Vulcans would say “infinite diversity”… It’s not a comment on them countries, and to make it so is just wrong, and to infer they are some how lesser for having different taste, is also… wrong.
#47… Hi to all, here some feedback from a “brainless” country. ;-) In the Czech Republic, it can be really hard to promote Star Trek but everyone who wasn´t a trekkie and went to see it was satisfied. And the official promotion wasn´t the best. But especially for European cuntries – word of mouth works very well – and for a very long time! It happened here with Ironman last year. So talk about the movie with your family, friends, colleagues and then you can see it ten times everytime with different people. That should do something for the box office score. :-)
PS: A Czech speciality by watching – trekkies take an apple instead of popcorn to cinemas. Can you guess when you should eat it? ;-)
this film gets better each time i watch it! it really does.. I’m a bit miffed I haven’t seen it on Imax though.. perhaps if someone would be kind enough to move an Imax theatre closer to me?
Oh and I’m impressed with boborci – this is a guy who it would seem has enough on his plate, yet still finds time to have a chat with us goofs!
well done on the flick sir, you must be so chuffed!
Saw a new TV spot over here in Australia – this one focussing on audience’s reactions after the film. Goes along the lines of:
“Was better than I expected.”
“Lots of action. Even a romance for the girls!”
“I wasn’t a Star Trek fan and I loved this”
“You don’t have a been a fan of Star Trek to like this..”
Intermixed with one or two shots from the film. Interesting!
I WANT A SEQUEL RIGHT F*CKIN NOW !!!!!!!!!
I agree with Geoffers and the other UKers on here.
The publicity in the UK has been virtually non-existent. If I wasn’t a Trek fan I don’t think I’d even be very aware the movie had been released. Most of the publicity has come from tv reports at the premiere (which was ages ago and probably long forgotten, if it registered at all to begin with for most), newspaper reviews and really positive word of mouth.
Bit of a missed opportunity, considering a lot of people who initially wanted to see Wolverine could’ve been swayed towards Trek if they’d been made aware how much better it is.
No numbers available for Japan? I thought Japan has been a good market for Trek in the past.
55- Hit the nail on the head…
As an example, where I work.. a work mate asked me what I did last night.. I said I went ot the Startrek film (this is a guy who is in his early 30’s), his reply was “really? there is a Startrek flm out?, knew about Terminator.. but then I guess you check out the Trek websites to know it was out.. thought that was all finished up a long time ago”… f
Feels a bit like Paramount kind of sat back on the UK side of things and knew the fans would come see it…. A shame as I reckon going on the amount ive seen in the cinemas, that if the publicity was there, they’d have even stronger figures.
#35… Agreed, I think a lot of the publicity that did come over in the UK this time, was down to news coverage of “a new gang reprising the old favourite roles”… Maybe it’s just me… but I kind of think (and don’t groan folks), that if they bring Shater into the next one, it will give it that “news worthy” publicity again to bring it into “general view” (and of course please a lot of us fans to boot!)..
Regarding the international numbers, maybe Trek will be one of those movies that picks up momentum once it hits DVD. Too much baggage in certain markets and a lot of people didn’t want to risk an investment of a big night out at the theater…but will check it out on video. Once word spreads it has the spectical of a Transformers film, it may pick up some steam and there will be more of an appetite for Star Trek II(A).
I’m sorry to say this but The Shat is more of a parody of himself now than he is a believable Captain Kirk. Bringing him into the sequel sends the wrong signal and could hurt all the efforts that have gone into re-launching Trek as a more realistic (and less cheesy) sci-fi adventure series. And his lack of participation in the new movie certainly doesn’t seem to have hurt the box office…as he claimed it would.
Of course that’s just my humble opinion.
200 million baby….It will happen!
I think Up will be our only major comp…T4 and Museum will start off well, but I don’t believe they have the legs over the long haul….T4 has got some horrible reviews..and they finally catch up with you…Wolverine?
35-58…It just seems that if they bring in Shat, they would be pandering to the fanbase, which they said they didn’t do…and they said no time travel in the next movie…so if it done correctly his appearance would be something!
56. Holger – May 21, 2009
No numbers available for Japan? I thought Japan has been a good market for Trek in the past.
Holger,
As has been stated several times in the past few weeks (as well as this thread) Star Trek opens in Japan on May 29… So unless you have purloined the Narado or Jellyfish…
Narado!
Obviously i meant Narada
21. Gustavo… your English is fine. In fact, your spelling is better than many of our native writers on this board. :-)
Regarding the term “sequel”. Let’s drop that forever in regard to Star Trek!! Star Trek is about continuing voyages. New adventures, boldly going, all that good stuff. Sequels are generally lesser faire, saying and doing things the writers/directors didn’t get to the first time, usually “B” list stuff.
From here on out, let’s call the next movie in production the “New Adventure”. And, this next one is going to have to kick arse, as it is the 13th (for you Trekkie-triskadekaphobes). No rehashes of old TOS stories. We’ve got a whole new universe to explore!
#55, 57
Agreed. A few posters on the underground – not a sausage where I live (Medway), but plenty of Wolverine posters on billboards and buses.
Paramount should’ve worked harder on UK marketing, and it would’ve payed off big time. I just got back from France – nothing at all there, and no posters on Paris metro.
#65
LOL does that mean the next one is duodeka-Trek?
I saw Trek at the IMAX in Glasgow. It was sublime. Fantastic. sleek. humorous, cool, and in most parts intelligent character study for a blockbuster movie. I’m optimistic that it will end up in the top 5 by the end of the year.
#56 – I was of the understanding that Japan was not a good market for Trek. I don’t know, maybe they’re collectively miffed that Sulu is not an actual Japanese name? Hopefully the new Trek will turn things around. My Japanese wife is a huge TNG fan, thanks to me.
I wonder how many of us here have seen the movie multiple times?
I have seen it twice. I might see it again, possibly for a matinee. Have encouraged multiple people to see it.
I saw FC 3 times, and consider that a slightly superior film (for a few reasons I won’t go into, so no mud slingning).
I wonder how much of this is from repeat viewings?
I think Paramount knew it could make money off of ST again, if just from the fans and their circle of friends that they convince to see it. I think some of the media blitz and word-of-mouth has made it succeed beyond that, however. At least I hope so. I’d love to know how much of an impact previous fans are making by repeat viewings though.
-P
The promotion here in Brazil was PATHETIC! Hugh Jackman came here to promote Wolverine, and there were tv spots everywhere for his film. For Star Trek NADA!! Only a few TV spots on cable!! I was surprised to see that they put Star Trek in more theaters than Wolverine here in Rio de Janeiro. But without promotion, exclusive interviews, etc., it´s difficult for a movie to be successful. And and to top it off, because of piracy, summer movies can´t open in the summer in Brazil. They open in the winter. Star Wars, for example, opened in January 1978, when the kids were on vacation. Millions went to see. Piracy IS a problem, even though downloaders and uploaders of video camera recordings don’t seem to agree. If Star Trek could open in OUR summer, it would certainly rock, like all TOS feature films, but US distributors only see the domestic gross. Too bad. But that doesn´t change the fact that it was a very good film, with great reviews in the Brazilian press.
IMAX MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA – STAR TREK SEASON EXTENDED! Friday, Saturday and Sunday this weekend only,
Don’t miss it!
Boston Globe gave terminator a poor review; I don’t think the film will be much competition for Trek once the newest dies down. Going to see Trek for the third time Friday night :)
Guys ,
Beware of fake IMAX screens.
IMAX has loaned its brand name out to AMC and REGAL theatres.
that means those two chains can slap the name “IMAX “on any of their digital screens but its NOT IMAX .
and they charge you$5 more for these phoney screens.
Be careful out there .
Wow. Those reviews for Terminator Salvation are brutal. I’m going to skip that one.
Ok. Star Trek. Lock phasers on target and fire on any movie that thinks it can pass you up!!!!!!. Fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Target Destroyed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Success is the best revenge. Unbelievable how many “fans” pissed on this film before it was even released. Well, you were wrong! Wrong, wrong, wrong!! Told ya so!! Told ya so!!
Edwards IMAX in Houston is also extending Star Trek :The IMAX Experience through the holiday weekend too.
ST09 is burning a hole in my wallet.
I went to see it for the fourth time last night. Third in IMAX. Both late shows were sold out. And I noticed something interesting, the average age was definitively younger than when I saw it in week 1, mostly sub 25, and lots of women too. So it seems like WOM is indeed working.
About promotion outside NA, I have this theory that maybe Paramount decided to concentrate their marketing money in the domestic market this time around (after all they had this difficult battle uphill to not just let people know that the movie was coming but also convince them that it was a different ST and worth seeing), and concentrate on foreign markets in a later date, probably during the DVD release or next movie. As someone that was born in Brazil (and now living in the US), I can tell that the problem with ST there isn’t as much that Brazilians don’t like it, but rather that they don’t know about it. For example, as far as I know the only ST we (Brazilians) got on open TV in the last 20 years were TOS and TNG season 1.
I am telling that because I believe that in today’s world “exposition” to a name, brand or intellectual property is everything (that is why we have so many sequels, adaptations, remakes, etc). A studio would need to spend an insane amount of money to convince people go watch something they never heard about, and sometimes even a lot of marketing won’t convince them. But with all the positive reviews and WOM, and then the DVD release, people from foreign countries will start to discover ST, and by 2011 they will come to see the sequel in far greater number.
The movie is addictive!!
Wife and I have to see it again- 3rd time.
Something about it lends it to repeat viewing.
Whatever it is, it works!
GO TREK!!! (”Canonic warts” and all, I might add.)
So great to have something to celebrate after all the years of mediocre crap we’ve had to put up with.
How true!
I just took my Dad to see it and he loved it. He watched TOS when I was a kid and I can thank him for loving Trek. It was his first time and he loved it, it was my third.
If you haven’t done so, see it a second time. I picked-up more music cues from TOS than I initially thought, plus even more nods to canon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
79. T’Cal – May 21, 2009
Success is the best revenge. Unbelievable how many “fans” pissed on this film before it was even released. Well, you were wrong! Wrong, wrong, wrong!! Told ya so!! Told ya so!!
#75 – I agree with you. Went and saw IMAX at a Regal theatre. It seemed more like a large 70MM screen to me, but hey it was still pretty awesome. But not the traditional 5 story screen one expects of IMAX.
-82.. I agree, having seen it 3 times, can say I notice more and more in it every time.. and when I watched it last night (3rd time).. I REALLY could see Kirk there…Next week I am off to viewing number 4!
I don’t think bad reviews of T4 will affect turnout at the boxoffice. Look at Wolverine. The reviews for both read almost identically: Main characters and meaningless secondary characters run around, and there are loads of explosions, but the films are not “about” anything. Shame. Terminator, especially.
I think we’re lucky that Star Trek is as good as it is. But, in my opinion, beginning with SW ep.1 10 years ago, it’s become clear that no one cares whether or not a film is good. The punters will line up anyway. Hopefully franchises like “Batman”, “Iron Man” and “Trek” will continue to excel even though, economically, it no longer matters.
Seen it twice. No IMAX here (Edmonton Canada) so sat up close second time. Actually had no choice, sat down late within another packed house (Sunday night of a long weekend). Got a bit much during the action sequences but otherwise was fine.
IMAX film is Monsters Vs. Aliens. Didn’t get it until I saw it’s box office take. Who knew? (Not me, having no kids).
#86—Agreed.
People will always turn out in droves to see good explosions. But while those horrific reviews will do nothing to stop TS from raking in big bucks, they *will* keep me from paying to see it in a theater.
I might have seen both Wolverine and TS in theaters this year if I thought they might be any good. Instead, I’ll just see ST09 3 or 4 times instead of 2!
It takes alot to get me to go to a theater, as I have a substantial amount of money invested in “home theater” already. Truth be told, Wolverine and TS won’t be *that* much better in a theater, IMO. I can wait.
So many parallels between Star Trek 09 and Batman Begins…..
Prior to Star Trek we had the very terrible Nemesis and the lacklustre Insurrection….. and before that the good First Contact…
Prior to Batman Begins we had the very terrible Batman & Robin and the lacklustre Batman Forever….and before that the good Batman Returns…
So many parallels with Trek and Batman….2 popular and similar TV Series in the 60’s, A massive number of spinoffs (yes, look at how many Batman Animated TV Series have been released, Batman: The Animated Series in the 90’s was essentially the TNG of the Batman Franchise to the 60’s Batman which was esentially TOS). And of course look at all of the Trek spinoffs.
Both are well known franchises with later poor films and both franchises that have recently been re-booted and are making similiar numbers at the Box Office… Mind you Trek has been getting better reviews than BB…
Lets hope the trend continues and that we have a massive sequel that is on par with The Dark Knight…. Instead of using Star Trek with a subtitle in the Sequel: They should just call it “The Continuing Mission” or something along those lines….. or “Space: The Final Frontier”
paramout has nobody to blame but themselves for poor int performance- they have done nothing “tent pole” like in their promotions of trek…
I’ve only seen it twice so far, but do plan on seeing it at least once more in the theater.
Once it’s on DVD, no telling how many times I’ll watch it! :-)
Trek will finnish in the Top 10 both domestic and worldwide this year…perhaps even in the Top 5….more so for domestic….
The DVD/Blu Ray will make a killing tho….. With Rura Penthe…hopefully some completed battles…Narada vs. 47 Klingon Ships and Narada vs. the 6 Star Fleet ships and the rest of the Deleted Scenes restored into the main film as an extended edition… it will be something to look forward to.
If they leave the deleted scenes seperate, some or all…I will still be happy too….
I wouldn’t be shocked to see ST09 have a really good Memorial Day weekend, especially since it looks like alot of IMAX theaters are extending its run up to the holiday.
I think the NATM followup and TS will do better, but I’m not sure about A&D (at least domestically). I didn’t expect such a strong showing for Trek against A&D so far, so the continuous “word of mouth” effect might place ST09 ahead of it this weekend.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Trek shows up this weekend strong and ends up #3, behind only NATM and TS—-although a close 4th would still be great.
We do need Khan in the sequel….. and/or the Klingons…..
Khan is to Kirk as to what the Joker is to Batman…
Both are timeless, iconic villians and foils to each respective protagonist…..
If they can have 3 actors play The Joker in live action – Caesar Romero (1960’s Batman Series, 1966’s Batman: The Movie), Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger, why can’t they have an actor re-cast as Khan…. Sure – Ricardo Montalban was iconic in TOS: Space Seed and of course TWOK….yet a new spin on Khans legacy would be sure to be a success…
They did recast the original crew do not forget, plus fans of the 89 Batman were probably skeptical that Jack was going to be succeeded by Heath… And yet Heath’s Joker is now acknowledged as being the most memorable and iconic now…. So if Khan was recast, well if they do it right we can have a great adventure….
Trek will be number 2 or 3 this weekend. I think it will do at least 25 to 30 Million. maybe even more. I am going to see 3 Movies on Sunday. Termanator and Musium and of corse Trek. I just hope that i do not get sick of Popcorn. lol.
And the Klingons need a new spin…..a mix of ridged or ridgeless or a hybrid of both…or something even more Alien…like extra eyes, sharper more deadlier teeth…something a little more barbaric and predatorial… A true threat, perhaps something that could even prey and literally feast on other races….
Trek is definitely worth repeat viewings. There is so much going on, and the pace is pretty relentless. But the main thing, for me, was being with these characters again, like I was watching old friends. The actors are outstanding in this film, and really made me feel like I was seeing Kirk, Spock, McCoy, etc. It’s been far too long since we’ve seen them on the big screen. I’m really glad they are back.
I thought it would be near impossible to think of anyone besides Shatner as Kirk, Kelley as McCoy, and so on, but the new cast really pulled it off. The original cast will always be near and dear, but these youngsters did a fantastic job.
I can’t wait to see what the Supreme Court does for a follow-up (assuming the same team is in on the sequel). I’m sure they must realize this film is gonna be a hard act to follow…
86, Mr. or Ms AJ:
You´re so right… Unfortunately, for the so-called seventh art. But luckily, for us trekkers, trekkies and occasional fans, ST was indeed a great piece of art. I was amazed to see how a movie with such a load of special effects coud focus so much on the characters and how J.J. Abrams could get such good performances from every bit role. Remember the doctor assisting Winona Kirk? His small line was “…and the baby, too…” spoken while running, with special effects explosions around him. And yet, the believeability of his acting was amazing. It is just a small example. I must congratulate Mr. Abrams for his sound directing. A new director for a new cinema.
The Klingons need to be re-imagined……just what was under those helmets in the Rura Penthe deleted scene ? Were they ridgeless ?
Or was it deleted because the producers will change the look in the next
film….will there be a re-invented background story….or a more clarified and interesting one that jettisons years of bogged down canon…
The Klingons need to become true killers, true conquerors, true barbarians, truly feared….they need to be modled on the Mongols, the Dark Age Barbarians the caused the Roman Empire to Fall (W. Empire since the E. Empire became the Byzantine Empire), the Soviets and even the Vikings…. No more of this noble warrior race (TNG) or coward – espionage or comedy relief race (TOS, TOS Films) The Klingons I truly feared ever were the ones viewed at the start of TMP… they were bad ass….taking on V’Ger… We need Klingons that present a true threat to the Federation where lives will be lost, many ships will be destroyed and planets conquered and even crew members will die…..
And even klingons that literally feast on federation members as hunted trophys of war, that being they would be the main course at Klingon banquets celebrating victory, over gallons of blood wine….
#95—”We do need Khan in the sequel….. ”
I wouldn’t be surprised, but I don’t think it is a “need” at all.
Damon Lindelof, Bob Orci, and Alex Kurtzman are quite capable of creating their own interesting characters, IMO.
Now that they have successfully reintroduced the iconic original characters and provided an alternate timeline in which anything can happen, there is a whole universe out there to delve into.
What I would like to see more than anything is a bigger role for Dr. McCoy. the first installment was very Kirk/Spock-centric, and now it is time to give “Bones” his due (which is being more involved in the story).
And we need Khan….in film 2, with the Klingons – or just Klingons in Film 3 or vice versa…Klingons in 2 and Khan in 3…..
I think ST will do well this weekend. I am amazed at how many non Star Trek fans have seen the movie and LOVED it.. They only went because of WOM and now they are telling everyone how great it is. I think ST will continue to do well during the week and for the next couple weekends.
I agree that it is addictive. I have seen it 3 times and will go at least one more time. I do believe the repeat viewing is a huge factor in the Box Office numbers.
#97, 100, 101—I think you’re going a bit overboard.
I always preferred the cool and cunning Klingons of the TOS-era to the “cavemen in space” we saw depicted in the 24th Century spinoff series.
Calculating villains….not beasts.
Please—no more howling, feudalism, obsessions with imaginary honor, singing, live food, bloodwine, ridiculous rituals, and preference for swords and daggers over modern weapons.
Ronald Moore ran in the opposite direction from the classic Klingons like Kor and Kang in the original series. The spinoff series made Klingons into figurative caricatures, IMO.
And please—no more “Klingon birds of prey”. I would rather see the classic battlecruisers shown in the KM test scene in ST09.
I doubt I’ll get Klingons without the silly characteristics of the TNG-era, since Lindelof and Orci grew up on TNG, but a guy can wish…can’t he?
And Hellraiser for the third film. And Predator for number four!
We just gotta get them in there.
Just gotta!
I’m on the other side of the fence when it comes to wanting to see Khan, Klingons, whatever has been done before. I do not feel it is necessary to re-do anything that we’ve already seen, alternate reality or not.
Mind you, I’m sure if the producers have this idea for the sequel which involves Klingons, or Khan, or whatever, I’m confident they’ll do a good job with it, but…
I believe this is the perfect opportunity to really do something new and different… at least as much as possible. Why resort to bringing back Khan, or Kang, or the Doomsday Machine, or whatever, when something new, unknown, surprising could be done? Every Trek series that brought out the Borg made me want to tear my eyes out (I settled for changing the channel). And, surely, you all remember TNG’s rather lame remake, “The Naked Now.” My feeble mind would think, “Can’t these guys come up with something new?”
This is precisely how I would feel seeing a film sequel that is based on something that’s already been done. I’m not knockin anybody who feels the opposite, I’m just looking for something unfamiliar, rather than the familiar. I think Orci & Kurtzman did a wonderful job of breaking Star Trek out of its overgrown (and overblown) mythology, freeing the original concept from those shackles. Star Trek can now go anywhere it wants to. I say, “Out there… thataway…”
102….we do need a larger role for Bones…..perhaps delving more into his backstory and past, and even making him a more important hero in the next film would be perfect…and Scotty too…a bigger role at that…
And I disagree, Khan is the most recognizable villan in Star Trek….it took one TOS stand alone episode and a movie produced by the Paramount TV Department to make him iconic. He is equivalent to the Joker in the Star Trek franchise, just like Kirk would be the equivalent to Batman…heck they mentioned Khan in TNG (”A Matter of Time”), DS9 (Dr. Bashir, I Persume”) and in a large way ENT Borderland, Cold Station 12, Augments to boot….. Plus Augments were a big part of why the Klingons lost their ridges and had personality shifts….ENT Affliction, Divergence….
Khan was also the star of 3 TOS expanded universe novels….Eugenics Wars 1 and 2, To Reign in Hell…
It is essential that Khan is in the Sequel…..
What if they were to discover Hannibal Lector in cryogenic freeze aboard the SS Starling?
Showbizdata.com is reporting that Trek did $3.12M yesterday with A&D doing $2.97M. Looks like Trek is cutting into what could have been a good week-day take for A&D
$158.65M And Counting!!
Just as it is essential that the Klingons will be in the next film or even 3rd film…..
If the Joker (The most iconic and recognizable villian in Batman) can return in a Batman film and be re-cast and have the performance surpass those of the past (eg. Batman 1989), why can’t the most iconic Star Trek villian (besides the Romulans and Klingons) be recast and have a shot at surpassing the previous performance….and becoming even more memorable and timeless…. If The Dark Knight succeeded with The Joker, why can’t it be done in the sequel to Star Trek ????
And no Borg in this universe – They have been done to DEATH as villians….thanks VOY and ENT…. The Klingons are different, they were heroes and anti-heroes in TNG and DS9…. They Make Better Villians then heroes/anti-heroes and are more interesting than a bunch of Drones….They are also TOS, unlike the Borrrrinnggg Borg….. The Klingons need to Become Villians again and if evidence shows in this film they are the enemies of the Federation again (eg. Kobayashi Maru)
#108—I agree that Ricardo Montalban’s character is iconic among Trek fans, but why is it “essential”?
I’m not even saying that some fusion of “Space Seed”/TWOK with a twist (obviously minus the revenge angle)is even a bad idea, but these guys can really tell stories about anything they want. It isn’t necessary for them to reimagine a story (at least not at this point) about a guy who was really only a nemesis for Kirk over a period of days. I would hardly equate that to The Joker vs. Batman.
Damon Lindelof has come up with some really good characters that audiences become invested in on his own already (LOST), so why not let him bring that skill to the table with Star Trek?
The SS Botany Bay is out there, floating around in space 9 years prior to the point when it was stumbled upon in the original timeline.
Why should they be in a hurry to stumble upon it again?
Regarding Terminator and Night at the Museum II, I don’t think either has the “will see it more than once” factor that Trek has. Anyone seen it more than ten times yet?
BTW Anthony, gotta say it at least once a week: THANK YOU for this site and all you do.
If there was ever a truly recurring nemesis for James T. Kirk, it was the Klingons as a whole—whether it was Kor, Kras, Koloth, Kang, Kruge, or Chang.
Khan showed up briefly, stole the show for an episode, and was never seen again for 15 years.
107…..
Okay then, why did they have to bring back the Joker in TDK when he was already played by Jack Nicholson in a very well known film and had an iconic role in 1989’s Batman…..which came out 18 years before TDK….
They could have picked many other Batman Villains….but they took a gamble and re-cast the Joker. Re-imagined him and voila – it was an immense gamble that paid off in full… Plus they re-cast Two Face, who was last on the big screen 12 years in Batman Forever. The new Two Face blew Tommy’ Lee’s performance outta the water….
By the time the next Trek film rolls along (2011)…it will be nearly 45 years since Space Seed aired and nearly 30 years since TWOK hit the big screen…
Time for a Khan re-imagining…..take note JJ and Supreme Court….it IS time to bring back Khan…he is just tooooo awesome…plus look at How great TDK did…. And on top of that time for a Klingon Re-imagining and return…..by the time the new film roles along it will nearly be 6 years since the Klingons (in person) appeared on screen since the last season of Enterprise… Mind you they were mentioned several times and their ships were seen in a simulation in the new film…
#105 – closetrekker,
I completely agree. Too bad they already started it with the wrong foot: they called the Klingon cruisers “warbirds” in the new movie, and also mentioned that they have “cloaking” capability, which make Klingons almost the same as Romulans in this new universe. I also think that I heard something about a Klingon neutral zone, which wasn’t supposed to exist until “Errand of Mercy” (there were a lot of mistakes in a sequence no longer than 3min. Was Bob Orci involved with this part of the script at all?!).
But while I think they should present the Klingons as they were in TOS, I also think they need to give them a new spin, just like they did with the rest in the new movie. Make them more realistic, less of a caricature villain of the week, just like Nolan did with the Joker in BB.
If we consider that we got a reboot, a reintroduction of the ST universe with the new movie, then using the Klingons in the next movie would make a lot of sense. There is now a new audience that knows little or nothing about them
47. KIRK, JAMES T. WROTE: “The reason for the poor results in those countries is because they simply don’t get Star Trek and never will unless it was a brainless movie like Wolverine”
OH, IS THAT WHY “PAUL BLART: MALL COP” Is in the top 5 domestic ranking with Star Trek (behind “Fast & The Furious” I might add) – because we are SO much more intellectual in this country?
Yes…
The Best Villians in Kirks History and TOS History were:
1. The Klingons – They will be his protagonists in one of the 2 sequels to this film…
2. Khan – Must be done in the next film – it worked in TDK with The Joker….
3. The Romulans – the villians for this film – not needed as villans in future films – can now be checked off the list….
No machine villians….please !!! No Nomad, V’Ger, Doomsday Machine, Landru, Whale Probe – and NO BORG
No evil mad scientist villians – eg. Dagger of the Mind, Garth of Izar….
No evil cult villians – The Space Hippies from Way to Eden….
No weird alien villians – Immunity Syndrome, Cloud Creatures, Brains…
No human/alien villans – Space Nazis, Space Romans, Space Chicago Mobsters…
Stick with Iconic, Fool Proof and Recognizable………Klingons and Khan, since the Romulans fulfilled their Villian duties for this Film…
I see a trend, going by original Airdates….
ST 09…..Ballance of Terror…..Romulans appeared first before the Klingons
Then came “Space Seed” – Introduced Khan
And finally “Errand of Mercy” – 1st Appearance of the Klingons…and the best one of them all – Kor….
Order of Appearance in TOS Season 1
1. Romlans
2. Khan
3. Klingons…..
My Prediction for the New Trilogy – if it ends up going that way due to the actors 3 film contracts
1. We already had the Romulans
2. Khan
3. Klingons….
Another prediction…that mirrors the TOS films….
1. Narada = V’ger – A ship much larger than the Enterprise
2. Khan = TWOK
3. Klingons = Search for Spock
And no return of Balok…I do not want to see a re-imagining of Corbormite with a grown up CLINT HOWARD…that would be scary within itself….LOL…
#116—”Okay then, why did they have to bring back the Joker in TDK when he was already played by Jack Nicholson in a very well known film and had an iconic role in 1989’s Batman…..which came out 18 years before TDK….”
One has nothing to do with the other.
However, if you feel that you must make such comparisons, Khan is not the recurring villain to Captain Kirk that The Joker is to Batman.
The Klingons (as a whole) are far more similar in that regard—Kor, Kras, Koloth, Kang, Kruge, Chang.
While Khan showed up to bother Kirk twice (”Space Seed” and TWOK), the Klingons appeared (as an adversary to JTK, anyway) in “Errand Of Mercy”, “Friday’s Child”, “A Private Little War”, “Elaan Of Troyius”, “The Trouble With Tribbles”, “Day Of The Dove”, TSFS, TVH, TFF, and TUC.
Klingons 10, Khan 2.
If there is any need at all to revisit something so familiar in a potential sequel, I would think that Kirk developing some sort of overwhelming disdain for the Klingon Empire would be the way to go.
But again, none of that (Khan, Klingons, etc.) is “essential”. What is the point of opening the door for new and original ideas involving these characters if all you are going to do is rehash old tales?
The Joker has been Batman’s nemesis for 60+ years. Khan was in an ep and the great TWOK.
They cannot tell the TWOK story yet if his ship is still floating around, but they could intregrate him. Have the Klingons find him, for example. But it’s been done. “Oh no, an Augment has a Klingon ship. BAM! BAM!”
JJ also has expressed that he feels the Klingons have been done to death. They are mentioned in Trek09, however, so they are out there. It’s a shame, because Kirk’s reputation in the Empire as public enemy no. 1 was always part of the chemistry between him and any given Klingon commander (except in TFF).
I think exploration has to begin figuring in when they write the sequel. The “five year mission” should begin.
JJ and Supreme Court Members…..I suggest that you view my posting #119 for sequel guidelines and all of my postings arguing for Khan and the Klingons to be future antagonists in the next 2 films…well at least the next one :)
I feel that I made some very strong points and arguments…
122…
The Klingons have been done to Death in TNG and Ds9 as heroes….
Not done to death as villians in TOS….
Done to Death…..well that award goes to THE BORG…..
121….
The Dark Knight was a rehash of 1989’s Batman…Joker tries to become top crime kingpin in Gotham… Joker nearly falling to his death from a building….etc… Batman making a run at the Joker with the Bat Bike/ Batman Making a Run at the Joker with Bat Plane etc..
And look how TDK Blew the Batman 89 film outta the Water…
124.
No offense to what you want to see in terms of ST movies, but I hope you are completely wrong. I would like something new with my new ST–that was the point of the alternate timeline, right? Not to rehash *antagonists* of old. Been there, done that, next please.
-P
#122—interstingly, one of the few reviews out there that wasn’t so good included a glaring complaint about a lack of Klingons. I disagree with him that it was any kind of weakness in ST09, but I think it shows that even among mainstream moviegoers, there is an expectation to feed.
JTK’s relationship with the Klingons is part of the “mythology” of Star Trek. If Abrams feels right now like they’ve “been done to death”—-well, so has time travel (also a significant bit of the Trek mythos)!
Lindelof and Orci/Kurtzman just need to school him a bit. That’s all. And I am sure that if/when Abrams is convinced to revisit the Klingons, he’ll approach it in his own fresh way.
I don’t think that reintroducing the Klingons is an immediate need by any means, but eventually they are neglecting a big part of ‘Kirk Trek’ if it isn’t done at some point. And it doesn’t even have to be a major part of the story, IMO—just reintroduce them as more than just a couple of simulated battlecruisers on a viewscreen.
If they do Klingons, they should veer more towards the direction of old TOS:
1. No ‘honor’ (take hostages, efficient, genocidal conquerors a la Third Reich)
2. Ruthless imperial ambitions
3. Classy and intelligent
4. Respect one another (no macho Captain/First officer crap on their ships)
5. Deep down, they can be like “us” (humans).
The TNG/DS9 versions became like Bozo the Clown after a while, and have too deep a backstory, and no mystery left in them.
124.
Let me temper that a bit. A mention of familiar places, characters, ships, etc. is great. If you can incorporate them into a NEW story, then great. But to utilize them as the main plot driving force–not sure I am comfortable with that. I hope they leave Khan alone. If we run into Kor and have some great viewscreen banter, then awesome. However, I don’t think I would like to see Klingons as the main antagonists unless it is done with great care and is clearly fresh and exciting. Please, no TMP klingons.
-P
127.
Exactly.
I found the Klingon angle (which, oddly enough, JJ really wanted in the film–nice instinct) of the new film (Nero on rura penthe) really interesting and would’ve loved for it to have made it into the movie (at least in theory–we’ll see what it looks like on DVD, hopefully awesome). I think it would’ve worked in many ways, especially in terms of filling in that 25 year gap.
-P
#125—-A potential Trek sequel is already set to bring in huge dollars, with or without Khan.
And Khan is not The Joker. If Trek has an equivalent to The Joker at all—it’s the Klingons, not Khan.
Don’t get me wrong—-if Bad Robot decides to reintroduce either villain, I am sure they will do a tremendous job. I just think that your assertion that this is any kind of “must” is grossly overstated.
Star Trek doesn’t need to imitate the formula of TDK to that extent, nor does doing so necessarily assure the same kind of impact upon the BO figures.
Star Trek is not Batman. In many ways, Trek’s storytelling possibilities are far greater, in fact.
Perhaps we’ll see JTK earn some of the following (as depicted in “Court-Martial”):
Palm Leaf of Axanar Peace Mission
Grankite Order of Tactics
Prentares Ribbon of Commendation–First and Second Class
Starfleet Medal of Honor
Starfleet Silver Palm –with Cluster
Starfleet Citation for Conspicuous Gallantry
Karagite Order of Heroism
I wonder which (if any) of these awards was pinned upon him at the end of ST09…perhaps the “Starfleet Medal Of Honor”?
I think the key for us fans to remember is that the sequel we are fantasizing about has to be a big screen, feature length motion picture, or of more epic proportions than what we would see in any of the tv series. What adds to the allure of this new film is that it is really a MOVIE, not a blown-up episode, not a made-for-tv, or a movie-of-the-week. As terrific as TWOK was, it really could have been a tv movie, or tv mini-series, in terms of its scope. I prefer the big, epic scope we see in the new film. Whatever story is to be told in the sequel is going to be of the same nature… a massive, epic adventure. This new film raises the bar for all future Treks.
And I agree with Closettrekker in response to #116… Khan was not the sort of recurring villain the Joker was in Batman’s history. Why the producers of that film chose to re-do the Joker is more obvious (since the Joker was a regular Batman nemesis), than if the producers of Trek decided to re-do Khan. I think they’d have to have one helluva clever story to out-do TWOK, anyway. And, essentially, that’s all they’d be doing in bringing Khan back… they’d be trying to out-do TWOK. Surely, there’s no need to do that.
We can certainly speculate and fantasize all we want about what’s in store for the next Trek, but, ultimately, we do not know (nor should we want to know) what’s going on inside the minds of Orci & Kurtzman… (I’m not implying there’s anything wrong with them!) But we do know they’re listening to us… they probably get a sense about some things, by reading all of our petty bickering… nudge nudge wink wink. But art by committee sucks. Under no circumstances should they listen to us as a measure of what, or what not, to write about. Again, I am always hoping to be surprised.
119. Trek: That really is narrowing down things a bit isn’t it?
As for Klingons, yes they will eventually have to show up. And when they do I certainly hope they are more old school. And perhaps they can “pre-build” a history with Kirk and them somehow so the Kirk-Klingon vibe is there at the start. Perhaps his mother is killed by Klingons or something.
Regardless I know Roberto and Alex are likely squirming with anticpation at the prospect of “creating’ the Klingons of this universe. I know I would. :)
Oh and I whole heartily agree with Closet that we need much more Bones in the next one. And some more Scotty too.
JMN
Interesting… I was checking the foreign box-office for all ST movies and, according to imdb, here are the totals (inflation adjusted):
- TMP – $159
- FC – $95
- G – $76
- I – $75
- TVH – $44
- TWOK – $44
- TFF – $33
- TUC – $32
- N – $30
- TSFS – $23
Now, ST 2009 is in route to outdo Generations and Insurrection this week. It should eventually outdo FC too. Now check the TMP numbers! Wow, that is going to be hard to beat…
The wed box office totals are in on MovieMojo.com…
Trek $3,117,839 #1 !!!!! again over 4 million above Wolverine for the yr!!!
A/D $2,947,014
Wolv $956,416
We are the champions again!!!!!…bring on T4!!!!
Ok. I say get Harry Mudd as a crazy antagonist for Kirk. Or we can get seryno jones with the Tribbles. Or Elan of Troyus. But my pick would be the Doomsday Machine. But not the Ultimate Computer. But Nomad who is still out there would be a force to recon with. Veger for maybe a latter time. The probe a latter time as well.
I love Trek Movie !!!
Other than that I am thinking that re-doing or re-imagining the Klingons is in store and is a must – erase the krappy klingons of years past (TNG, Ds9, Voy, Ent) – it has to be done….. It must be done….they must become villians again…..and more treacherous, evil and barbaric…. I think the movie hinted that they are enemies with the federation – neutral zone, kobayashi maru etc….
They already re-imagined the battlecruiser – warbird, and in rura penthe deleted scene they look a little different…. yet they were hidden by masks/helmets with TMP style ridges engraved in them…. What is underneath – faces of pure terror and brutality…..the stuff of nightmares…
I would like them to become more like the reavers from Firefly/Serenity – more like Pirates, Vikings, Cannibals/Headhunters, Mongols etc…
137…
No Nomad, No Whale Probes….terrible…. No Mr. AtoZ, No Balok (we don’t need Clint Howard), No Doomsday Machine and especially NO Harry Mudd or Cyrano Jones…they are comedic releif…..more like anti-heroes….
No space hippies, chicago gangsters, nazi’s, computer wars etc…. No Mirror Universe…Done to Death !!!!
Khan and Klingons Re-imagined all of the WAY !!!! They are Iconic
128….
The Klingons need to become what the Mongolians were during the time of the great Khagnates…. Ruthless expansionists who conquered with brutality…. No cowardice like Koloth in Tribbles….
135.
Nice numbers. Wow, TMP was a hit worldwide (in comparison to other ST films). The TNG-era did quite well too, it seems. I agree with your assessment about reaching GEN numbers and *possibly* FC numbers (slightly skeptical, but cautiously optimistic) as well–I’d like to see it. That would for sure cement a serious budget for the next installment, and possibly more international push.
-P
Khan sure acted like the Joker of old……putting Ceti Eels in peoples ears, trying to blow up the Enterprise….etc… He was ruthless !!!
#142 Ok Khan or Klingons. But i think the Doomsday machine if done right can be great. We do not know where it came form and who made it. Only that it came from outside our Galaxy.
It will beat the TMP overall world wide adjusted record….and the indivdial records for domestic and international….
However I forsee the new Harry Potter – Half Blood Prince is it ? winning overall domestically and worldwide…
142.
That was AFTER he lost it on ceti alpha…
Prior to that he was ruthless yes, but also refined and honorable (even in TWOK he gives kirk more time for his “valiant crew”). The Joker has no scruples at all. Completely different motives and character all the way. Is he iconic? Sure. But we wouldn’t see the TWOK Khan in a movie now, it would be space seed Khan. Would spock prime jump in to stop the ceti alpha debacle?
Not sure a Khan movie would work. I like TWOK just fine the way it is. New stories, please. And NO animalistic Klingons. TMP had the grunting like pigs with no personality. Actually TOS movie klingons were inconsistent (which is OK). Showing a people as X thing ONLY is not good, in my opinion, unless you have a great reason for it.
-P
#140—”The Klingons need to become what the Mongolians were during the time of the great Khagnates…. Ruthless expansionists who conquered with brutality…. No cowardice like Koloth in Tribbles….”
Those Mongolians would never have made it into space!
Klingons should be as diverse as human beings are.
Koloth—Not a coward. I’m not sure how you got that. He is simply placed in an awkward situation where he ends up embarassed by the fate of Arne Darwin and his own government’s failed attempt at sabotage. He also apparently has a prior familiarity with Kirk, as their dialogue exchange suggests.
Kras—A dishonestly cunning and scheming wretch. He does demonstrate a hint of cowardice at one point, particularly when challenged to single combat by Captain Kirk on Capella IV.
Kor—A somewhat romantic Klingon warrior. He is as intelligent, well-spoken, and level headed as he is ruthless and cold. A worthy adversary.
Kang—Mistrustful and fierce, but ultimately a reasonable man. Again, a worthy adversary.
Kruge and Chang bring very distinct personalities as well. The former is all brawn, while the latter is as intelligent as Kor and as caniving as Kras.
Each of them brought their own personality traits to the table, and each of them used his own strengths to accomplish a particular one of the Empire’s goals with which he was charged (or in the case of Kruge and Chang, their own goals). This is as it should be.
i don’t know why you wouldn’t want such diversity in Klingons, or why you would have them be depicted as thoughtless beasts instead.
146.
Word.
-P
Silly as it seems to be talking sequel already, I’ll jump in, LOL!
I want NONE of the above. They re-booted this whole thing for a reason, after all. Going backward and re-doing old tv episodes and films would be a disaster, IMHO. A certain portion of the “old” fans would be ecstatic to relive their childhood, the general public would yawn, and the film might do $50M. Star Trek would die, yet again……
I think the whole idea is to present Star Trek in a new, refreshing way, with new exciting stories, to a new generation (no pun intended). Otherwise, why bother with a re-boot? Besides, to be logical, to have Khan in the next movie can’t be done. You would first have to remake Space Seed (a tv episode), wait 20 years, then remake TWOK. All in a 2hr movie. Not something I would want to see. Give me something new now that you’ve gotten of to such a great start.
146….bowing and apologizing to Kirk at the end of Tribbles is certainly cowardice….
A real Klingon in that situation would have slain Kirk with a Bat’leth…same with the bar brawl – true klingons would have slaughtered everyone in that bar… I personally would have LOVED to see Cyrano Jones get diced by a Bat’leth and that efeminate bartender too….
True Klingons would have blown K-7 and the Enterprise to Bits too…. Proceeded to Shermans Planet and slaughter/and enslave the population…I would have loved to see Commissioner Baris get hacked with a D’tagh Knife too.. Now THOSE are what Klingons should be….!!!
135. opcode – the problem with those kinds of comparisons is that a lot of information is missing. While I would put TVH at $48 adjusted for inflation, it also opened on half the screens that ST09 has. Since those screens are not broken down into foreign vs. domestic, you have to ask yourself, were the numbers not higher because fewer people could see it within a particular market, or it wasn’t as good a film? Either way, the most important thing to consider is that TVH had a budget of $27 million against $133 million box office earnings. The unadjusted foreign box office almost recouped the production budget by itself! Even with marketing and distribution and all the ancillary costs, this movie recouped with half it’s box office earnings. Meaning approximately 30-50% profits. For ST09, to equal that kind of ratio, it would have to make over $740 million. So it’s no wonder Paramount kept making movies based on these numbers, no matter how low the foreign audiences may have been. Obviously the stakes have been raised considerably, but so far so good.
Not running away like cowards from K7 with Tribbles aboard….
146….
Because as Kirk said in ST 6 … They’re Animals….
146….
The new Klingons would be as Diverse as the folks in the Mongol empires, the Soviet Union, Communist China….etc…
#149—”bowing and apologizing to Kirk at the end of Tribbles is certainly cowardice…”
Koloth never apologizes. He bows as a means to excuse himself. That’s not cowardice. It’s embarassment.
“A real Klingon in that situation would have slain Kirk with a Bat’leth…same with the bar brawl – true klingons would have slaughtered everyone in that bar… I personally would have LOVED to see Cyrano Jones get diced by a Bat’leth and that efeminate bartender too….True Klingons would have blown K-7 and the Enterprise to Bits too…. Proceeded to Shermans Planet and slaughter/and enslave the population…I would have loved to see Commissioner Baris get hacked with a D’tagh Knife too.. Now THOSE are what Klingons should be….!!!”
I think you may have some issues. I think you want a slasher film…not Star Trek.
The Klingon Empire and the UFP are not at war in TTWT. In fact, both entities are under the terms of the Organian Peace Treaty (it is even referenced in the episode). Those terms are at the heart of the reason the KE is trying to sabotage the grain shipment, rather than conquer Sherman’s Planet.
What you are suggesting makes absolutely no sense.
#152—”Because as Kirk said in ST 6 … They’re Animals….”
You seem to have missed the point of that story too.
#135, likewise for FC. The budget was $47 million against a take of $146 million in half the theaters as ST09. The foreign take was $54 million. Again, foreign BO more than covered the original production budget by itself. In order to achieve the same status as FC, ST09 will have to gross over $466 million, which I think is about what Paramount is expecting.
Insurrection did similar numbers against a slightly higher budget, and I personally think its poor story helped quash any enthusiasm for Nemesis. To put it in perspective, to equal Insurrection’s performance, ST09 will have to earn $300 million worldwide, which I think we all agree it will do. It may be harder to equal FC’s performance without a foreign boost.
So you see, ST09 isn’t really doing that much better than its predecessors at the moment in terms of budget. Only Nemesis did so badly in relation to its budget that no future investment was immediately warranted.
150….
True Klingons would have blown K7 with a Bird of Prey….
That would have been awesome !!!!!
Sorry CloseTrekker….154
True Klingons would have Blown K7 apart with a fleet of Battlecruisers and Bird of Preys….
True Klingons would NEVER sign a Peace Treaty…..I don’t even think there is a word for peace or treaty in their language…
That would have been SWEET !!!! Quite memorable…
Okay 156 RD….Are you saying this movie is barely out-perfoming as weakly as Nemesis both domestically, critically, internationally and worldwide total ??? When you look at adjusted inflation ???
Are you saying that Insurrection and FC were better films because they have made more after adjusting ???? They Both Sucked…..not even in the same league as this Film… This is the Best and most successful trek film EVER….
156 RD
Are you publically stating that this movie is a Critical and Financial Flop, A Box Office Bomb……you know nothing foo…. Sorry bud but your sacred TNG films and B&B Trek are DEAD !!!
156 RD
Your Sacred Nemesis is DEAD…stop defending it….
154…only cowards would sign peace treaties…..and poison grain…
True Klingons would have destroyed Organia…..and the medieval cities of that episode…
154……Klingons are Expansionists and Conquerors…..
RD is a wannabe studio executive. And, apparently a closet Star Trek hater. He will pull stuff out of his butt to “prove” his point. Ask him about advertising budgets for all of the films. He seems to forget that factor sometimes while convenient, while claiming that this film cost $150M to produce AND $150M to promote, thus his $300M base figure to break even.
And Klingons are thoughtless BEASTS !!!
164…..
Hell Ya Bro…..
#164. It is NOT my claim that it cost $300, it is the LA Times (which I didn’t realize originated in my “butt”). I’ve provided all of the links you asked for to help you better understand my “position” and am still waiting to see a few links from yours. Yet all you seem to want to do is personally attack me.
Here’s the LA times article regarding the numbers. The rest of your attacks are simply beneath rebuttal.
http://theenvelope.latimes.com/la-fi-ct-boxoffice11-2009may11,3,3372044.story
167 RD…..
Are you stating that the film will be a flop if it doesn’t hit 300 mill worldwide or just breaks even ???
Does it have to make 600 mill worldwide (double its overall cost) to be considered a hit ?
Granted….it will pick up internationally once it opens in India and Japan and other markets… And in the weak markets it will pick up once word of mouth and praise spreads…. I can also see a Christmas Re-Release to honour its original release date…. That would be awesome….
Ok RD-
I’ll accept for the time being your $300M figure. A 30% profit is $390M. A 50% profit is $450M. Worldwide. Both well within reason, I think. The other numbers ($740M?) you did pull out of your butt., frankly.
I know you’re a TDK fan from your previous posts, but this is not a competition with your precious film, though you’d like it to be. It’s only you that seems to downgrade the success of this film, constantly, on numerous and every thread. Why???
From RD: “The rest of your attacks are simply beneath rebuttal.”
In other words, he has no credible response. A troll is a troll……
#135 Opcode, I have really enjoyed the work you have done on your various tables, adjusted for inflation. So I’d like to return the favor in terms of relative performance for all of the Trek films to date and it paints a very interesting picture. Essentially I have take the original BUDGET and divided it into the GROSS Boxoffice take for each film (not adjusted for inflation). That provides the RATIO which can be multiplied by ST09’s budget to get the amount it must earn to achieve the EQUIVALENT performance of the earlier film’s box office. This is probably the most accurate way to look at a Trek films’ performance given the varying ticket prices and other variables. I have included the total number of screens as well for comparison. I’m not sure what that tells us though. First, I think these figures may only be US screens, not international screens. Second, theatres were much bigger in 1979 and through the 80s than they are now, but also not as convenient, so it is unclear whether the earlier smaller release translates to equal numbers of tickets. However, it is interesting to observe where a film performed better while showing in fewer venues and vice-versa. It would also be interesting to see how long each film’s run was, but that information wasn’t available for every film.
AGAIN, these numbers have NOTHING to do with whether a film is successful at the box office, merely how well a film recouped its own production budget and in that regard how ultimately successful the previous films were by comparison. Many more factors go into consideration of a film’s success, including DVDs, TV, and merchandising. Films seem to have become a lot more like cars, in that they cost more to make in relation to the lower profit dealers can make. But in looking at these numbers it become clear how much profit Paramount made from Star Trek films over the years and why they would be so eager to revitalize it.
Film Gross/Budget=Ratio Screens ST09Eq.
———————————————————-
TWOK 97/11=8.8 1600 $1.4 Billion
TUC 97/17=5.7 2100 $855M
TSFS 87/17=4.8 2000 $720M
TVH 133/27=4.9 2000 $735M
GEN 120/35=3.4 2700 $510M
FC 146/45=3.2 2800 $480M
TMP 139/46=3.0 1000 $450M
TFF 63/27=2.3 2200 $345M
INS 118/58=2.0 2600 $300M
ST09 231/150=1.5 4000 $231M (Current)
NEM 67/60=1.1 2700 $165M
RD – so your saying that ST 09 is not that better than NEM…you are stating that TFF is BETTER than ST 09
Honestly……what are you trying to do….piss people off….I’m raving mad BTW…..
RD – does that stand for Ronald D. btw…as in Ronald D Moore….one of the biggest allies of Berman and Braga….. Of course you want to flame this film and state that your holier than thou TNG films are better….
Shame on You Foo….
Well Guess What RD…….Generations was one BIG Plot Hole….it SUCKS…..
It was so borring and a mess, actually Disaster fits the bill, and how dare you that you killed Kirk……..you, Berman and Braga should be convicted with Murder……..the evidence is on the screen……not only did you, Berman and Braga kill kirk so effectively – you killed TOS, TNG (the tv series was great, movies – not so much) and The Franchise as a whole…….
Everyone – it is time to BAN RD (aka Ronald D. Moore) from Trek Movie for LIFE……….. He assisted with Berman and Braga’s utter destruction of the franchise…….
And his box office figures are coming from left field……just like some of his scripts…..terrible…..and botched…
RD – Ronald D. Moore….
GOOD BYE AND GOOD RIDDANCE…YOU ARE BANNED FROM TREK MOVIE FOR LIFE !!!!
169…Brian….
RD’s precious film is actually Generations….
RD:
All interesting.
Recall that, in 1979, successful films often spent 6 months to a year in the cinemas (Star Wars, Crocodile Dundee, Jaws I remember specifically), and cinemas were far larger and less accessible. Multiplexes started appearing in the ’80s, and soon it was no longer necessary to wait in a line for a film.
Also, in Europe, a major factor affecting BO was that, after 1989-91, the COMECON, or Communist European countries opened their economies to investment, and cinema multiplexes developed quite rapidly.
In that context, you can see on BOM that the foreign (mostly European) component for Trek09 is currently running at 31.3% of total BO. Nemesis ran at 35.7%, and Insurrection at 37.7%, TUC ran at 22.7% (!)
The foreign earnings of Trek09, in percentage terms, of worldwide gross, are far below what they were for the TNG films, in an environment where more and more Europeans go to the movies in an increasing number of cinemas. The European marketing campaign rates a premature fail if they cannot get some numbers before the traditional July/August holidays.
It also shows that Europe likes the Next Generation more than TOS, which is illuminating.
AJ……are you Berman…??? or Braga ????
I think it is B n’ B – you guys SUCK……
#178, thanks for that background on European cinemas. That is most interesting. However, can we assume that it’s they like TNG better than TOS, or that as the cinemas grew, so did Paramount’s interest in exploiting that market with more advertising dollars?
Either way, they may have liked TNG, but the jury is in, based on #135’s chart, NOBODY liked Nemesis! LOL
What is also interesting about that chart is the fact that the film that brings the lowest foreign revenue is TSFS! That is particularly fascinating to me considering how well that film otherwise did at the box office, not to mention the fact they kill Spock at the end. I mean really, if you were into Star Trek, wouldn’t you want to see if Spock lives and how they bring him back to life? Obviously these numbers provide an interesting picture of a film’s performance, but they either need to be taken with a large grain of salt, or something else is going on not reflected by the numbers alone.
174-
I enjoy watching Berman and Braga squirm as much as anyone. By the time we got to Enterprise, it was clear that the franchise had lost any creative impulse or relevance it once had. But calling them murderers?
That’s a tad harsh, don’t you think?
#171 – RD,
We can spin the data as much as we want. But in the end which matters is how much profit the movie made, not the ratio profit/budget. It doesn’t matter if a movie cost $1billion or $100M, in the end a profit of $200M is better than a profit of $100M, though a movie costing $100M is surely less risky to make.
#178 – AJ,
Again, we can spin data the way we want. Foreign percent of a box-office doesn’t mean that much per se. You say that TNG did better in foreign countries than ST 2009 because of the foreign percentage. In my view ST 2009 is doing better both domestically and internationally than any TNG movie ever managed to do because of the absolute numbers (which is in fact true!). It is just that the proportions are different. Or you can think that TNG never did as well domestically as TOS (which is true if you check the adjusted numbers), so that is why the foreign percentages were bigger.
#183. No you are absolutely right. I’m sure in 1982 Paramount was ecstatic that they earned 890% over what they spent, which led them to feel secure in spending more assuming similar earnings. But in the end, I’m sure spending 10.5 million, the would have rather made the $793 million “E.T. The Extra Terrestrial” made, or 7500% return over initial investment.
Nevertheless, the more money you spend, the more money you have to earn. I don’t think you can dismiss the performance of a film in relation to it’s budget. In adjusted dollars TWOK made roughly $194 million, of which $172 million was technically profit. ST09 on the other hand has so far only earned $231 million, of which only the last $81 is technically profit. If ST09 made no more money, TWOK would more than double the earnings.
To be clear, I actually see this new way of looking at the film’s performance as hopeful. ST09 has only been in theatres half a month and it is already made half the total take of TWOK, which took over 4 months. If Trek continues to perform as well as TWOK, not only will Paramount get a huge return on its initial investment, it will make more money than any trek before it. On the other hand, there is a direct relationship between the initial budget and earnings ratio. As it is, ST09 will easily pass the INS $300 MIL mark, essentially doubling Paramount’s original investment. After that, performance is less of an issue, because as you point out, in the end more money is more money, regardless of how much more.
#149:”A real Klingon in that situation would have slain Kirk with a Bat’leth…same with the bar brawl – true klingons would have slaughtered everyone in that bar… I personally would have LOVED to see Cyrano Jones get diced by a Bat’leth and that efeminate [sic] bartender too….”
Slaughtered? Effeminate? Diced? Sir, I think you have issues.
The scenario you described surely isn’t the “Star Trek” I grew up with.
Even in the 1960s version we were never shown a Klingon race that acted with such wanton violence as you advocate… perhaps you’ve mistaken it for Friday the 13th (or any of the other nasty senseless slasher films).
184….Okay I am starting to think that RD and AJ are truly Berman and Braga tooting their own horns saying that the TNG films were better than this one……
Sorry Guys I know its you – ITS OBVIOUS….
Here is my proof
Mr. Berman (RD) stating that the TNG films did better internationally and his pet lackey Braga agreeing with every thing he says (just like always)
Stop defending what you destroyed….you created CRAP…
Stating Solid numbers and stats and each one of them bouncing similar numbers….sitting at the same computer guys perhaps ??? Only experts in star trek stats with earnings etc…would know this… Only folks who have EXPERIENCE in producing films and managing budgets….cough cough cheapskates cough cough would know this…especially Trek productions…
Berman and Braga you are on trial for the following unforgiveable crimes….punishment will be harsh….
Crimes:
1. Killing the Franchise with your uncreativeness and blandness
2. Murdering James T. Kirk in your crapfest Generations
3. Making Scotty speak Technobabble in Generations “so
uncharacteristic”
4. Totally ignoring TOS
5. Botching ENT with “These are the Voyages” TNG Finale
6. Creating too many TNG Clones – VOY and ENT
7. Ignoring DS9
8. Airing that Terrible “30th Anniversery Special” in 96 – the one with the opera singer and all of the casts getting awards…..
9. Releasing the TNG Films – All of Them !!!!!
10. Creating Technobabble
11. Creating Neelix
12. Creating “The Holo Doctor”
13. Killing Data
14. Nearly ruining TNG…thank god there were others to keep it strong…and barely save it by the finale….
15. Trying to create an earth romulan war movie prequel….we already have star wars yo !!!
That is all…punishment will be determined and it will be harsh….
#172: “Honestly……what are you trying to do….piss people off….I’m raving mad BTW….. punishment will be determined…????”
Dude, chill.. we’re talking about a movie here… take a deep breath, count down 10 to one, slowly… it’s just a movie, just a movie, and surely not worth all the venom you are spewing.
185….MC1 Doug and all people saying that the Klingons are Cute and Cuddly Honor Filled Dorks from TNG….Or espionage filled comedic foils from TOS, especially the cowards from Tribbles…
You think my depiction of what I want to see from Klingons causes me to have “so called issues”
Here is an excerpt from the Premier Episode of DS9 Season 5 Apocalypse Rising – A direct reference of the actions of the Klingons on a StarFleet Ship during the 2nd Klingon Federation War….
“Captain Laporin was a Benzenite Starfleet officer who served as a starship captain during the Federation-Klingon War (2372-73). While attending Starfleet Academy, one of Laporin’s classmates was future fellow Starfleet captain, Benjamin Sisko.
In late-2372, the Klingons boarded Laporin’s starship during a bloody skirmish. The boarding party was merciless to Laporin’s crew, as Laporin would witness a Klingon behead his Tellarite helmsman. Moments later, the same Klingon would tear off Laporin’s breathing device, killing the captain.
In 2373, Captain Benjamin Sisko would learn of Laporin’s fate while on the Klingon outpost, Ty’Gokor, as told by the Klingon soldier who committed it. (DS9: “Apocalypse Rising”) ”
I would say that describing the beheading of a helmsman with a bat’leth and ripping the breathing tube from someone and hacking them with it is pretty brutal, graphic and TRULY the actions of a Klingon….same with conquering systems and whole empires….eg. Cardassia, taking over federation territories and blowing ships up like the Farragut are truly klingon actions…Its what they DO….They are Warriors…. Thats what they were doing in TOS…..killing entire populations like on Organia….blowing Federation Ships up like the Grissom….etc….
These my friends are how Klingons Truly ACT…..Barbaric, Conquering, Bloodthirsty Murderers…..who enslave and kill races and expand their territories and enact their totalitarian “Soviet Style” and even Mongol Empire Style regimes….
The Klingons Embrace Violence…it has always been stated…
I must have been watching a different TOS than you….I seem to remember Kor massively butchering whole populations of Organians, Kor firing on the Enterprise…. Klingons poisoning grain to attempt to starve populations… Klingons giving arms to primitive peoples…
Klingons killing Kirks son on screen, Klingons trying to blow the Enterprise out of the sky many times….ya sounds like wanton violence to me…..
I am not spewing venom btw…. B and B did destroy the franchise…
And JJ and the Supreme Courts actions have risen it from the Ashes…it is Alive Once Again :) Completly and successfully resurrected…. Hell Ya !!!
The new film is what only matters in Star Trek now !!!!
Trek,
appreciate the enthusiasm, but please stop spamming the thread…dont you think 40 comments in this thread is enough? at least stop replying to your own posts
I normally prefer not to get dragged into the mud with those I see as inflexible… in fact, I won’t here either, however, as this is my last point with you Mr. TREK, since you are SO correct and the rest of us so utterly completely wrong, I concede that in your own mind you are right, always right, never wrong.
You’ve acted like a bully to RD, to AJ, to Closetrekker — and to a lesser degree Berman and Braga… it really takes a brave man to call people names when they aren’t even here to defend themselves (the very fact that anyone in here would defend your behavior is incomprehensible to me).
You say it was Berman who wrought the changes you disdain regarding the Klingons in TNG-era. So wrong.
It was Gene Roddenberry himself, at the urging of David Gerrold, to bring the Klingons into alliance with the Federation. Roddenberry, not wanting to repeat himself, didn’t even want a Klingon presence on TNG.
The 1960’s Klingons were a metaphor of the Soviet Union. Now with an uneasy friendship existing between us and Russia, it seems only natural that TNG Klingons might mirror our current relationship.
Just for the sake of argument, if Klingons were so one dimensional as you seem to feel, what is to say that they could not evolve (plenty of evidence supporting that is provided in the excellent “Yesterday’s Enterprise” — but wait, you despise TNG episodes, don’t you, which naturally invalidates any point of discussion)?
Roddenberry wanted the new show (in 1986) to be about exploration, not total war, not a hateful ideology and not about calling our perceived enemies animals. I think, in his mind, the Cold War, which was so prevalent during 1960s TREK, was over.
Klingons have, IMO, never acted out without cause, not just because it was in their nature to be bad asses as you state. Closetrekker’s excellent points raised in post #146 better describes the TOS Klingons, in my opinion, than in anything posted here in this thread.
The only time I saw Klingons acting without mercy was in “The Day of the Dove,” and even then they were not acting on their own accord, but of an alien influence that thrived on hate.
You state true Klingons would never sign a peace treaty yet they did just that in “Errand of Mercy.”
For a more complex definition of what Klingons are, go to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingons
Sir, if you do not wish to have an honest to goodness debate where not everyone agrees, then go watch your “Firefly/Serenity” as you indicated in one of your earlier posts.
Lastly, you can quote lines all you want, but that necessarily doesn’t make them so. When it comes down to it, your opinions, as are mine and every other person posting here, are of value. That is until someone attempts to bully those who do not agree, then it is time to go play with your (collectively speaking) own toys.
You remind me of certain members of the religious right who seem to equate big voice with righteousness, with raising your voice spewing violence and venom as a means to quell discussion; and with stating your opinion as the only truth.
Fortunately, the rest of us live in the real world. Again, I say.. it’s only a movie (or TV show).
—
[Anthony, I apologize now for such a lengthy posting, but I really do get a bit miffed when I see posts in here that attempt to stifle any kind of healthy discussion]
Trek:
You’re entitled to your opinions about Trek. I am not in the film business, but know quite a bit about sales analysis, , and RD and I are trying to look at the new film based on historical trends, both foreign and domestic.
RD, opcode, Closettrekker and I (and others) are interested in cutting through the hype, and understanding why the film is falling short abroad, and what benchmarks the studio may use to consider the film a success. The analysis is dispassionate, and our back-and-forth is simply an exchange of ideas.
I’d ask you to calm down with the Berman/Braga/Moore references. We are not those people (at least I’m not). Otherwise, you’re entitled to your rants. Now…on to my next project…A Klingon version of “The View.”….
195.
And that is different from the current “View” how?
I’d kill to hear “and now we have Khaless, back from his targ hunting trip on…” Maybe we’ll see that in a sequel?
And Trek, dude…
Someone call Dr. McCoy for a mild sedative, Sheesh.
Maybe you should just do as you said in a previous post and watch ONLY this continuity. Then you wouldn’t have to post or discuss anything about performance of this movie in comparison to other ST movies because they wouldn’t exist for you.
Also, and I don’t mean this it be, er, mean, but I think you need to re-watch a LOT of previous ST episodes, preferably with one of those “Guide to Star Trek” books that have come out recently. I don’t think you have understood a moment of ST up to this point. Each of your points concerning Klingons, TNG, ST Movies, etc., have been more than off the mark in terms of what the creators of ST have said themselves.
Dude, not trying to be mean, but you say other posters (all of which haven’t shown any discernible emotion in discussing their numbers) are Berman or Braga, maybe someone should check to see if you work for Paramount’s marketing wing, or make sure you aren’t picking through the garbage at JJ Abrams’ house. You seem to love this movie a little too much. Calm down dude, and maybe switch to decaf.
For the record, I like it as well, and hope it succeeds and more are made.
-P
Opcode, AJ, fair enough. Since I see the initial investment in a movie (the production budget) as vital against actual performance in terms of profit earned, I’ve taken the worldwide grosses (adjusted for inflation) and deducted the production budgets for each. As a result we now have a more accurate picture of how ST09 compares with its predecessors once we account for its significantly higher budget. The closest film in the franchise was TMP which had an adjusted budget of $136M. How much money ST09 must recoup in order to ultimately make a profit, is mostly irrelevant as the first film in a re-launch of the franchise, just as it was with TMP. However, the film must at a minimum make back its production budget to be successful, which it has done. I found the B.O. duration info at showbizdata.com for added comparison. Since most of these films earned their grosses in 4-8 months, ST09 is doing fantastically well as the 8th highest ranking Trek in only two weeks.
FILM AdjGross-Bdgt=Profit Dur.
——————————————–
TMP 407-136=$271M 4-5 mo.
TVH 258-52=$206M 5 mo.
TWOK 214-24=$190M 4 mo.
TSFS 178-34=$144M 4 mo.
FC 198-61=$137M 7 mo.
TUC 152-27=$125M 5 mo.
GEN 172-50=$122M 14 mo.
ST09 231/150=$81M .5 mo. (Current)
INS 155-76=$79M 8 mo.
TFF 108-46=$62M 8 mo.
NEM 80-71=$9M 8 mo.
ST09 worldwide gross box office numbers tell us one thing only when compared to adjusted gross BO of the other Trek films – That it is currently the 3rd most POPULAR film in the franchise, just behind TVH and over halfway to TMP in 1/10th the time. But that’s not the whole picture.
#80 “Edwards IMAX in Houston is also extending Star Trek :The IMAX Experience through the holiday weekend too.”
That’s good to know! I still haven’t seen it in IMAX, and as I said, I plan one more viewing.
#149 “A real Klingon in that situation would have slain Kirk with a Bat’leth”
No. He would have TRIED to slay Kirk with a Bat’leth. When it comes to besting Klingons, Kirk has a perfect record.
RD:
But what does PP actually put to its bottom line once the theaters and distributor have been paid? Spyglass financed it. What do they get?
The rough estimate which has been bandied around is that $300m is ‘break-even’ for all stakeholders. Then you have DVD and merch, which must be pure profit.
I went to see ST09 at the IMAX in Raleigh NC last night (05/21/09) with my son (who by the way is 21 and not a Trek nd he loved it).
All the IMAX shows in Raleigh for Thursday were sold out!!!!
#110. I just realized that A&D made slightly less than Trek during the American Idols night. My working theory there being that A&D represents much more of the “housewife” culture which AI also strongly appeals to. Perhaps that’s one reason for the decline. We’ll soon find out though.
Variety is also reporting Terminator also grossed $3 MILL last night at midnight showings which Wolverine earned $5 MILL. Could be bad news for Terminator if the rest of the numbers run accordingly.
201:
New York City was already emptying out yesterday for the long wknd, so that could have an effect around the country. People in transit. Trek got $4m on its Thursday pre-opening.
#199 – well that’s the billion dollar question isn’t it? Everybody gets something, but typically not off the gross earnings, except the money lenders. $300 MIL is a good place to start, especially considering all the ancillary income this movie is sure to make. But there’s a big difference between “actual” recoupment and “prorated” recoupment. DVD and merch. are NOT “pure” profit either as everything costs money to make and distribute and in this economy the profit margins are significantly diminished. But money is money and this movie is sure to more than recoup over its life. That’s why I wanted to look at Trek against the other films in the franchise. It’s already made more “real” money than Insurrection which got a sequel, and that number is climbing everyday. Given the cost of the film, I was mainly curious to see how well it was actually going to do against what had been the previous high benchmarks. In other words, Trek is clearly more popular than it’s ever been, but is it ultimately more profitable than it ever was in terms of a revenue maker for Paramount? If it’s as good as the best, then who cares if it’s not better? Paramount will make more.
I think for anyone who is curious about what the bottom line actually is, one must start by removing the “actual” costs, starting with the initial investment itself from the boxoffice numbers. The next easiest thing is the marketing budget, which at the moment we think is equal to the budget. So there’s your $300 MIL. Then there’s the reduction of the BO take by the amount the distributors and theatre owners retain. Then there’s the actual cost of the film elements and transportation, which is not cheap. After all of that, the company must first pay back a percentage to anyone who financed the film with loans. Finally, the studio can start recouping its development costs and apportioned overhead. After that, then the producers and production companies can start getting a taste of the back-end.
While all of that sounds like a lot, and it is, at the same time, books, music, video games, toys, promotional tie-ins, and eventually DVDs and TV distribution will all contribute to the bottom line, though in addition to all of the above-the-line participants’ (actors, producers, writers) residuals, there are “real” costs which must be deducted from those things as well. But they wouldn’t do it if there weren’t a lot of money to be made. Plus, the next movie should not cost as much to advertise thanks to the fantastic word of mouth from this effort to get butts in seats and theoretically, they look to the subsequent films to truly amortize the debt across an anticipated franchise (never mind the stream of revenue from previous films in Paramount’s library which also presumably goes into that pot).
@7:
completely agree mate, not sure whereabouts you are but in Dublin Cineworld in Parnell St. was (and still is) wall to wall Trek posters with screenings every half hour, the other cinemas were the same. Also I haven’t seen that many Trek books on display in Eason’s in about 5 years!
My uncle who is a lapsed TOS Trekkie from the original run and a complete Luddite rang me to go see it with him last week after seeing all the promotion over here. (By the way, he loved it, he left the cinema smiling like a kid and he got all the little nods and nuances throughout.)
It seems to me as much as the talk about pushing the film where Trek hasn’t traditionally done well wasn’t actually the case and Paramount concentrated the marketing where Trek has done well internationally.
I think at this stage we can call it and say mission accomplished, anything on top of the box office already achieved and success wise is the icing on the cake.
Damn, double post, apologies.
@Trek:
RD is just trolling, you’re giving him the reaction he wants, he’s a WUM. Also no way in hell he’s Ron Moore, if you think you know your stuff then you’d know that Ron never got on too well with B & B, after himself and Ira got left to their own devices on DS9 (thank god I add), he went over to Voyager and got the hell out of dodge sharpish.
No way in hell he’s RD and the accusation is more of a compliment to RD than he deserves. Besides I think Ron Moore has far better things to be doing than trolling a trek site.
#157—”True Klingons would have blown K7 with a Bird of Prey….”
Only Romulans had ships painted like giant birds of prey in TOS. The Klingons did not, nor did they have bat’leths, fangs, or questionable notions of honor and an overwhelming desire to die in battle.
#158—”True Klingons would NEVER sign a Peace Treaty…”
If you recall “Errand Of Mercy”, they really had no choice in the matter. The “peace” was forced upon them by the Organians.
But you’re wrong. They did sign peace accords, both at Khitomer (TUC) and in the DS9 series on at least one occasion.
I have no idea who these “true Klingons” are that you keep mentioning.
#162—”True Klingons would have destroyed Organia…..and the medieval cities of that episode…”
I wonder if you have actually seen “Errand Of Mercy”. They had no capability to destroy Organia. And those “medieval cities” weren’t even real, nor were the corporeal bodies the Organians used in the story.
The Organians were, on the evolutionary scale, so advanced that comparing them to Klingons would have been like comparing human beings to chimps!
#162—”…only cowards would sign peace treaties…..and poison grain…”
The I guess “true Klingons” are cowards, since that is precisely what they did.
#162—”……Klingons are Expansionists and Conquerors…..”
They are also saboteurs, plotters, and schemers—-if the situation calls for it. Like everyone else, they are diverse.
#198—”That’s good to know! I still haven’t seen it in IMAX, and as I said, I plan one more viewing.”
I’m going to be there for the 12:05am showing on Sunday morning.
193….Anthony…
No worries dude :) I will chill out a bit :)
comingsoon.net just reported Terminator grossed 13.3 million yesterday. If confirmed, that’s less than half of Trek’s opening day! Good news indeed for Trek if the numbers maintain that relationship.
showbizdata confirms 13.3 million for Terminator (that’s all day plus midnight showings Wednesday, compared to Trek’s $4M for 7PM Thursday showings only) and Trek and A&D slipping slightly but holding steady at 2.9 and 2.6 million respectively. Excellent news.
207….
Closetrekker, I loved Errand of Mercy…
And yes – the Klingons acted they way they did in TOS because they had Augment Human DNA in them….not only did they lose their ridges, yet they had neural re-ordering which caused some major personality changes – improved ambition, a small improvement in intelligence, the worst human characteristics (scheming, sabotage, plotting), cowardice, fear, enhancement of their already violent tendencies etc…
However you seem to have forgotten their actions when they were the enemies of the federation in DS9…..
Blowing up starfleet ships, conquering cardassian space, invading cardassia, conquering and invading federation planets, ripping breathing tubes out of benzenites resulting in death, beheading helmsmen with bat’leths…
RD…….you are full of lies…smoke and mirrors….I know you hate this Trek….
It is evident…you love the TNG films only and you want this new Trek film to fail…
You want every film this summer to pummel it – AD, TS, HP, TF2….I can see you want it to be a flop and that is what your underline message is and you are savouring it foo…
RD…..why are you trying to be-little this film ??? What is your point ???
Mad that it is actually a hit – both critically and financially ???
Stating how Terminator Salvation and Angels and Demons is better – IT SUCKS…. Just like you, your precious TNG films – YES IT SEEMS YOU LOVE ALL OF THEM…EVEN NEMESIS….WHICH SUCKS… YOU SUCK…
And stop defending your heroes Berman and Braga…THEY SUCK and they DESTROYED TREK… JJ and the Supreme Court have brought it back from the dead with this film and now trek will LIVE LONG AND PROSPER….
Live with it foo….
212
RD
That’s all pre-opening data. The film opens officially today.
Closetrekker..
Augment DNA of course introduced into Klingons in Affliction and Divergence….ENT….
And stop supporting RD him AJ… You 2 are the new Berman and Braga I think…. Trying to destroy the franchise…
However this time you will fail…..
#216, of course. But Trek did not pre-open until 7PM on Thursday and still made $4M. Imagine if it had been open since 10AM on Thursday. Nevertheless, they are only predicting $70 million for 5 days of Terminator, which averages around to around $13.3M/day. I think it’s still a good omen for Trek.
RD:
Well, there’s a long weekend ahead. Whether that’s good or bad for these films remains to be seen (more people outside flipping burgers, etc). I am sure the under 12 demographic will choose “NATM” with mom and dad, as the Terminator series has always been quite violent, and “R” rated. I hope this ‘Trek’ has legs.
As for “new” Klingons,
I thought Worf was the bright spot on TNG and through his run on DS9. Kern was a cool addition as well.
However, the general population were made out to be drunken rabble-rousers with no subtleties of personality. ‘Houses’ and ‘honor’ and a government so useless you wonder how they manage to run a planet of several billion people.
Preferring Kor, Koloth, Kang, Kras, etc., as I do, and seeing how they live in a police state-type society, I’d prefer to think their gov’t is quite efficient.
And, Trek, whatever ENT says about why the TOS Klingons are the way they are is irrelevant. When Kor, Koloth and Kang showed up with ridges, it sucked the life out of me (though Michael Ansara was as ‘Kang-ish’ as ever).
#220, 221—-I think Trek will do well this weekend. Reelzchannel is still advocating Trek on their “must see” lists, while ripping apart its competition.
Just last night, they were hammering TS (as they did Wolverine) and touting Trek. I was surprised that they were even still talking about ST09, but the message was something like—”Now, if you want quality entertainment where the special effects and action do not serve to mask the lack of a coherent storyline or likable characters, then go see JJ Abrams’ Star Trek.”
NATM will be huge, but I’m no longer convinced that TS will outdo ST09 this weekend (if you had asked me a couple of weeks ago, I wouldn’t have doubted it).
ST 2009 is now $161M domestically, only $2M behind TSFS inflation adjusted. I am predicting $195M~$191M domestically for week 3.
223:
It’s funny. 2 weeks ago in Penn Station in NYC, I was walking by a TS poster, and two 20-something guys walked by and one says to the other, “What? They made another Terminator movie?”
It definitely has had a quieter PR run up until now than ST09. However, I still think TS will take the teenage mallrats, and NATM will take the mom/pop pre-teen kids crowd, which are all part of the ‘new’ demographic of Trek.
If TS does get outdone, I’ll be surprised.
Also, strangely, TS is in 500 fewer cinemas than Trek and NATM. Is that lack of IMAX?
#203 – RD,
“Plus, the next movie should not cost as much to advertise thanks to the fantastic word of mouth from this effort to get butts in seats and theoretically, they look to the subsequent films to truly amortize the debt across an anticipated franchise (never mind the stream of revenue from previous films in Paramount’s library which also presumably goes into that pot).”
That is exactly what I believe.
And I was reading an article the other day that said that most movies today make as much as 60% of their total profit from DVD sales.
Closet, 12:05am or pm?
227:
Star Trek still requires investment overseas, I believe. TDK grossed almost half a billion outside of the USA, to match the other half billion here. Trekk needs more exposure abroad.
#229 AJ,
I agree, and I believe the best way to prepare for the sequel is to invest on the foreign release of the movie on DVD later this year. Again, I think it is a misconception that people overseas don’t like ST. The problem is that they were never properly exposed to the series, so promoting the movie on DVD is one of the best ways to do that.
#228—am, unfortunately.
While they will continue to show it in IMAX tonight, Saturday, and Sunday—it will only be midnight showings.
My plans were to see it after lunch on Sunday, but I can’t resist taking my wife to IMAX. The kids and I were blown away by that last time.
So I’ll see it Sunday at 12:05am with my wife(my third viewing overall, second in IMAX) at the Edwards in Houston, and then probably catch it in the afternoon on Monday at the Alamo Drafthouse in Katy over a beer or two…or three…or four…while the wife is out of town with our youngest and her mother.
4 total viewings should be enough to hold me over until the blu-ray release.
:)
#224 and of course $161M – $150M = ONLY $11M. You can’t avoid the real costs of production. Trek cost over twice as much as any other Trek since TMP. As my chart shows, Trek is still only 8th on the WW list behind GEN in terms of actual box office net after paying off production costs. That is not to say during Trek’s 5 month run at the box office won’t put it in the top spot – and I expect it will. For now, it has a ways to go. FWIW, when I first heard they were making a $150 MIL ST feature, that was thing I was most concerned about. I never doubted for a moment that a re-cast, reboot would do gangbusters.
#227, I can imagine a situation where 60% of a poorly grossing movie at the box office makes a significant portion of its gross from DVD sales. However, a film that does extremely well? Hard to imagine. Assume 1 DVD per customer and they don’t cost that much more than a movie ticket. With Trek you have some fans going more than 8 times already! So there is no way even if every person who saw the movie bought a DVD that they would make more than 50% of its revenue and of course it doesn’t work that way, usually 1 per family. Personally I think anyone who would buy the DVD will also see the movie, leaving very few additional buys outside of the box office. But that is way down the road. It also needs to be a box office success and it will be.
#213—”However you seem to have forgotten their actions when they were the enemies of the federation in DS9…..”
They were not opposed to signing treaties in DS9 either. And “non-augment” Klingons had already signed a “peace treaty” with the Federation as depicted in TUC as well.
And wasn’t the reason they became enemies with the Federation again (briefly) in DS9 due to being infiltrated by a changeling?
#217—”Augment DNA of course introduced into Klingons in Affliction and Divergence….ENT….”
Yes, that was Manny Coto’s well-intentioned (however unnecessary, IMO) attempt to reconcile the physical differences seen in Klingons between those depicted in TOS and those seen in TMP/beyond.
You can use that to justify the behvior of TOS Klingons vs. their TNG-era counterparts, but you cannot say that “true Klingons” wouldn’t sign a peace treaty—-because it isn’t true. They were depicted as doing so well after the “augment Klingons” had faded away.
Moreover, a lack of “augment DNA” would not have enabled them to slaughter the Organians. Ridged Klingons would have been equally powerless.
Furthermore, what of the “House of Duras”? Did they not behave cowardly at times as well? How about the Klingon BOP commander who bowed his head and apologized to Capt. Kirk in TGTTO89? Where do those characters fit in your definition of “true Klingons”?
The bottom line is this—-”true Klingons” are the ones depicted in all 5 television series and films. “True Klingons” are diverse and multidimensional….as they should be.
The “codes of honor”, etc. were never more than a good old fashioned crock of shit…
#230: “I agree, and I believe the best way to prepare for the sequel is to invest on the foreign release of the movie on DVD later this year. Again, I think it is a misconception that people overseas don’t like ST. The problem is that they were never properly exposed to the series, so promoting the movie on DVD is one of the best ways to do that.”
Opcode, I’d have to disagree with you to a certain extent. If, as we TREK fans have been led to believe, “Star Trek” (at least, TOS) has been incredibly popular through the 70s and 80s. I’ve read dozens and dozens of articles that addressed TREK’s universal appeal (Unless you are referring to the movie series, and not the TV series).
I’ve seen many articles talking about the various names TREK has had in countries such as Brazil, Argentina, Russia, Germany, Spain, Italy * and Japan. These articles have even detailed how actors have dubbed their native language substituting theirs for *our* original crew (which is only natural-not everyone speaks English, naturally).
* I even picked up a “Star Trek” novel (a TNG novel) that is written in Italy’s native language when I visited there in 2006.
It might be better if some of our foreign correspondents here address this theory, though, and I ask this: Has “Star Trek” had a noticeable presence on your country’s television networks?
I will say that SF is apparently alive and well in Europe, While staying in Italy the summer of 2006, I had a room in a hostel named the “Anakin Stargate,” and while walking the streets of Rome, I saw posters everywhere advertising a sci-fi convention (I think) that had a visage of a male Vulcan (very Spock-like) in his 30s, holding something that looked remarkably similar to a light sabre.
That said, if the many reports that have been on this site are true, I’ve never understood the apparent lack of success with the film franchise overseas.
I do think to some degree I can explain that, though. “Star Trek” on the big screen, to me, bears little resemblance to its TV roots.
Let’s be honest, the films, for the most part, lack the TV’s penchant for exploring new frontiers and moral issues, substituting instead our hero’s bravada, larger than-life villians, explosions, galactic danger, etc.
And again to be honest, I am not sure a talkie “Star Trek” would be the success that the current film is, which, to me, is why I prefer that TREK stay on the small screen– and yet I do very much enjoy the films on the big screen, especially ST09!
zoiks! Can we call a moratorium on the acronyms a bit, please?
I do have a funny story regarding our American military’s penchant for its use of acronyms. Last fall, while covering an CSTC-A SSI ceremony (Combined Security Transition Command – Afghanistan shoulder sleeve insignia ceremony…sorry, I had to do it.. LOL, in which our servicemembers adopted a new patch to be worn on our uniform’s sleeve that, for the first time, bore the colors of another nation–Afghanistan’s, in this case), the Afghan Minister of Defense delivered a speech in flawless English.
In his comments, Minister Rahim Abdul Wardek said, and I quote… “You Americans have so many acronyms in infinite combinations, that it makes one’s head spin (to which he got a good laugh and a round of applause from Afghans and Americans alike).”
Point is, not everyone knows what FWIW, TDK, WOM, NATM, BO, (which easily could be for body odor), etc., and countless other acroyms are. (and yes, I do know what these stand for, but the object of a good writer is to put out a message that everyone understands, otherwise you lose your reader.
#234—”If, as we TREK fans have been led to believe, “Star Trek” (at least, TOS) has been incredibly popular through the 70s and 80s….I’ve seen many articles talking about the various names TREK has had in countries such as Brazil, Argentina, Russia, Germany, Spain, Italy * and Japan. ”
And yet in many of those countries (Brazil, in particular), Star Trek’s only appearance on television at all was in the form of TOS and one season of TNG. Moreover, the movies have seen only extremely limited release in the past in some of those markets.
Germany also has always had a strong Trek fanbase, and ST09 has not done poorly there (as it has in our fellow English-speaking countries). It also does not open in Japan until next Friday. Mexico’s release (as we all know) was delayed.
But as I have said before, the investment in non-traditional markets should not be expected to produce overnight results. The effects of marketing are always cumulative. As long as Paramount’s marketing people continue to put resources into it (as they began to do with the promotion of this film), it will happen. I expect a better showing (post-dvd release and with continued marketing efforts) in those markets when the sequel hits theaters in a couple of years.
Closetrekker….
You win !!!! Klingons are very diverse….. The TOS Klingons afflicted by the modified Levodian Flu with Augment DNA did change their personalities and way they governed – like a totalitarian police state….. Just like Khan wanted to govern…it makes me wonder if the chancellor during the time of TOS was a ridgeless Klingon and the ridged Klingons were actually a minority due to millions and generations of Klingons being affected by their physicial and psychological changes…
As per my BOP comment, Klingons were probably using their BOP’s during TOS, however they were never shown on screen… They used them in ENT and they used them in the TOS movies up until DS9..
And Klingons do have fangs, remember worf used a Ferengi tooth sharpener in DS9 during Nog’s auction of his personal good prior to departing for SF academy…. However the Augment Klingons lost their fangs when they became afflicted by human DNA…. They lost more than their ridges, whole internal vital organs were lost or mutated into more human forms, their rib cages physically changed to appear more human, their bone structures changed (human like feed, no more spine ridges)skin tones became more human (very evident in Koloth and Kras as opposed to Kor and Kang), they became physically weaker as muscle structure and mass became more human, their way of governing changed (adopting more totalitarian police state styles), they became allies with the romulans – sworn enemies, change in teeth structure…etc…
Somehow that was all cured by TMP…..that is why they are more animalistic in that film…and more daring to destroy an unbeatable opponent…V’GER
The chancellor during TOS was probably an Augment Klingon….Their whole society changed…. And it shifted back to the house and honor system after they were cured prior to TMP….just like pre ENT Affliction and Divergence… My bets anyways….
Augment Klingons were the Majority during TOS…..while unaffected ones were a very small minority….
#235—That’s funny.
I am a former officer in the USMC, and I served aboard an LPH and LSD (seriously) while in the FSSG of a CAG MEU…I also commanded a PRC at GNB while attached to 2BN2REG2MARDIV out of CLNC!
I can’t believe a post regarding box office has turned into a debate about Klingons….I love Trek Movie !!!