STAR TREK HAS NOT RECOUPED ITS NEGATIVE COSTS, even ignoring P&A.

I love how you take my quote out of context: “whether your gut tells you Kirk was doing just fine, we NEVER saw it.”

If you read your own post, you’ll know I was responding to Kirk’s dating prowess, not his selflessness.

You know what I really love about this site. Anybody who disagrees with those who loved the film, gets branded as someone who went in wanting to hate it.

“You didn’t see it because you didn’t want to.”

Please.

“Alluded? You’re just making stuff up…. Kirk got her because he had the goods.

First, I am not. The green chick specifically said Urhura was mad at her for bringing guys back to the room to have sex with them. Even Kirk is taken aback and asks “how many guys have you …”. Are there that many guys who have the “goods” Kirk does? If so, he’s not so special. Also, Orci has already explained that there was supposed to be a scene that explains Kirk was using her to get the test changed. Her role in the movie was as a bimbo. Besides the definition of an Orion girl is oversexed.

“In the fight with Nero & Ayel, he was overpowered, but still used his cunning to kill Ayel.”
It was hardly his cunning, but Ayel’s stupidity. Though technically a win, I would have liked to see Kirk “actually” win.

“So he did the heroic thing to save his shipmate.” Yes he did, and I would have done it too. But nobody would make me captain for it. It was not heroic, there was no risk. I’ve done as much myself skydiving, though no one’s life was at risk. I did it for fun.

we never saw Mr. “Risk is our business” Kirk take huge gambles before?! Please. I only recall Kirk taking well thought out risks.

Not if they wanted to move about the ship undetected, which was their intent. The ship was two miles long. You could have beamed a platoon over there and been undetected.

And the final scene indicated that “the Kirk you remember” is indeed headed our way.As I said, you only saw what you wanted to see.
Funny how Spock was the way I remember him, except of course for the public make-out sessions with Uhura. As much as you seem to think I saw things that were not there, I would suggest you saw what you wanted to see as well. I sat back and let the film entertain me and thought about what the screen showed me afterward. And, I really don’t care for the explanation that this is a nascent Kirk who doesn’t yet know how to win a fight, or makes rash decisions without some thought. It is already a problem for many people (including non-Trekkers) that Kirk was promoted to Captain so quickly, it’s worse that he didn’t really exhibit at least some of those superior qualities on film.

You’ve promised that I will see a fully formed Kirk in the next film. I’m gonna hold you to it. LOL, hell I don’t even remember why I made the comment in the first place. It certainly wasn’t to start some geeky debate about how great Kirk was.

“whether your gut tells you Kirk was doing just fine, we NEVER saw it.”

I saw it. I saw it when he lead the way and showed Sulu how to disable the drilling platform. I saw it when he prevented the Enterprise from coming under sneak attack at Vulcan. I saw it when he out-shot numerous Romulans aboard the Narada. And I especially saw it when he and he alone made the decision to pursue Nero, a decision that resulted in everyone on Earth surviving. You didn’t see it because you didn’t want to.

“Uhura specifically alluded to the fact that this green girl was a nymphomaniac who routinely brought back horny dumb guys to their room constantly. Yes anybody could get that.”

Alluded? You’re just making stuff up. Who said Gaila was a nymphomaniac? Not Uhura. Where I come from, hot single chicks always get the most suitors. It doesn’t mean they select them all. Kirk got her because he had the goods. By the way, that place I come from is called Earth (Texas, specifically).

“You did not satisfy the argument that, while he sometimes held his own, he ultimately got his ass kicked every time.”

In the first fight, he “held his own” pretty well for fighting 4 men AND being wasted! I don’t think we ever saw Kirk Prime have to fight while drunk. In the fight with Nero & Ayel, he was overpowered, but still used his cunning to kill Ayel. The fight against Kruge in ST III wasn’t really all that different. Kruge had the total upperhand, until the ground beneath him gave way.

“Would Kirk have jumped after Sulu if he had not had a shoot, which he did not know would malfunction? Who knows. But it would have been suicide if he did.”

Don’t see your point there at all. He did have a chute. Last he knew, it was functional. So he did the heroic thing to save his shipmate.

“Taking command of the Enterprise was a huge gamble (but that’s not Kirk’s fault, it was a poor storyline).”

Right, because we never saw Mr. “Risk is our business” Kirk take huge gambles before?! Please.

“Also only he and Spock beaming onboard by themselves was another huge gamble. And an idiot move.”

Not if they wanted to move about the ship undetected, which was their intent. In that case, it made sense for as few as possible to beam aboard. And I seem to remember numerous episodes of TOS where Kirk beamed into a dangerous situation alone or with just Spock, including “The Enterprise Incident,” when he beamed aboard the Romulan ship alone. In that instance, too, the intent was to sneak around.

“we never got to see Kirk be the guy I remember from TOS. Here’s hoping this changes.”

This was a prequel. How many interviews do JJ and the actors have to give about ‘the journey towards becoming the classic characters?’ This Kirk was 25, not 34. And the final scene indicated that “the Kirk you remember” is indeed headed our way.

As I said, you only saw what you wanted to see.

#125 What movie did you watch?
…Something tells me young Kirk was not hurting for admirers of his own.
…Anyone could get that? Next, please!!
…By the way, he still managed to kill one of those Romulans.
…all of which he accomplished.

I saw the same movie you did. And I’m talking about what was being said and done on screen.
1) whether your gut tells you Kirk was doing just fine, we NEVER saw it.
2) Uhura specifically alluded to the fact that this green girl was a nymphomaniac who routinely brought back horny dumb guys to their room constantly. Yes anybody could get that.
3) You did not satisfy the argument that, while he sometimes held his own, he ultimately got his ass kicked every time. The original Kirk would have won at least one of those fights without help.
4) He was picked to jump on the platform. He only saved Sulu after Sulu saved him. And frankly, they should not have survived. Would Kirk have jumped after Sulu if he had not had a shoot, which he did not know would malfunction? Who knows. But it would have been suicide if he did. Taking command of the Enterprise was a huge gamble (but that’s not Kirk’s fault, it was a poor storyline). Also only he and Spock beaming onboard by themselves was another huge gamble. And an idiot move. They should have both been killed and if either had, Earth would have been destroyed. But I will give you this one, since he only technically ran away from the monsters. However, everything else he made up as he went along and got lucky. To say he was then promoted to Captain for being reckless and lucky is even more insulting. The Kirk I remember thought things through before he leaped. But my point remains, we never got to see Kirk be the guy I remember from TOS. Here’s hoping this changes.

“So far, Kirk lost the girl (to Spock!)”

I didn’t particularly want to see Uhura romancing either one, but even in TOS, the women were occasionally drawn to Spock or even Bones rather than Kirk. Something tells me young Kirk was not hurting for admirers of his own.

“the only girl we saw Kirk get was the one any guy in Starfleet could get”

Anyone could get that? Next, please!!

“he lost every fight he was in”

You mean when he was fighting 4 guys at once and, later, superiorly strong Romulans? What a wimp! By the way, he still managed to kill one of those Romulans.

“and spent most of the movie running away”

Except for that part when he space jumped onto the platform and disabled it. And then jumped after Sulu and saved him. Oh, and then took command of the Enterprise so he could chase after Nero in order to save Earth and rescue Pike and defeat the bad guys, all of which he accomplished.

#127 – Michael, yes the production budget numbers are also adjusted for inflation. It would be pretty useless otherwise.TMP only cost $45M in 1979 dollars. At the time, it was the most expensive movie ever made! Imagine that, a Star Trek film was the most expensive movie ever made at the time! That’s how valuable the franchise was and is to Paramount.