William Shatner Wants To Be In Star Trek Sequel + New Shat/Trek Skit + Urban Talks To ShatnerVision May 25, 2009
by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Shatner, Star Trek (2009 film), Star Trek sequel (2012) , trackback
The new Star Trek movie is a success and so people are already thinking of sequels, and of course the subject of William Shatner is already being talked about in the media. And it should come as no surprise that this time Bill is again saying nice things and talking about how he wants to be in it. We have that plus a new Shatner/Star Trek sketch and a ShatnerVision interview with Karl Urban.
Bill hears Star Trek is wonderful + wants to be in sequel
In TrekMovie’s recent interview with JJ Abrams, the director said that the hardest decision for him was to not include William Shatner in Star Trek and that it was "a possibility" he could appear in the sequel. JJ repeated this even more recently in an interview with MTV.
And apparently Bill is ready to suit up as well. In an interview promoting Raw Nerve in Australia, the subject came up (or course), here is an excerpt:
Shatner is nothing but warm with his words about Abrams and the new Star Trek movie.
"No, I haven’t seen the movie yet," Shatner gently responds during a phone interview.
"I’m looking forward to it. I hear it is wonderful and it has received some wonderful reviews."
With the success of Abrams’ first effort, there is talk of a Star Trek sequel.
Shatner says he is open to being cast in the sequel.
"I would be delighted to be in it," Shatner responds.
Shatner is also open to inviting Abrams on Raw Nerve, but don’t expect Shatner to use his talk show to attack Abrams. Again, he wants to take the friendly route.
"I would love to," Shatner says when asked if he would invite Abrams to be a guest on the talk show.
Read the rest of the interview at Sydney Morning Herald.
Ferguson’s Shatner Star Trek Sketch
As an example of how ubiquitous the Shatner/Abrams/Star Trek thing is, here is yet another sketch about William Shatner and the Star Trek movie, this time coming from last week on the Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson, with what may be the world’s worst Shatner impersonation.
Urban: Star Trek is sexy and back
And rounding out our Shatner/Star Trek news, one of the guests of William Shatner’s Horse Show Charity dinner a month ago was Karl Urban. The ShatnerVision guys were there to do a brief video interview which covers familiar ground, but there is a great Urban as Trekkie moment at the end:
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Comments»
Ahh Urban probably the only good thing to come out of this crap fest of a film, even Spock prime was dumbed down for Gen Y.
Star Trek is truly dead and gone, now watch this post get deleted because only positive posts are allowed on this website.
Urban is greatness.
I think it is wonderful that Abrahms and Shatner are on good terms. And yes, now that the alternate realty timeline has been established, Shatner should be able to appear in the sequels. I really think he has been humbled by JJ’s going through with the film without him. So here to a reunion yet to be, I hope.
By the way, Craig Ferguson is really sick.
shatner! shatner! shatner! shatner! shatner! shatner!
well, you get the picture…
Honestly, I don’t think Shatner wants to see the movie, or else he would have seen it in the first two weeks.
I kind of have mixed feelings on Mr. Shatner being in the next movie. If this movie wasn’t a alternate reality, we could have had Spock Prime return to the future and found that Kirk survived the events in Generations and was alive and well in the 24th century. Now Spock is trapped in a alternate timeline and this isn’t his universe.
Plus, how would the writers explain the old Kirk showing up? It would be too much after Spock Prime being in this movie. If Spock Prime goes to the future there will still be two Spocks.
The Shat just sees the dollar signs…
Well of course Bill wants to glom onto the sequel.
I don’t see what the problem is. It’s Science Fiction. You can do anything you want with Sci-Fi. JJ already proved that.
Gosh, Urban’s personality is quite a contrast from the character he plays in the movie. I’ve seen it 6 times now and then to watch Urban on this Shatnervision clip is rather interesting.
Oh, and that Craig Ferguson guy is GAWD-AWFUL.
Max #1: Your a fool! And please elaborate on how Spock was ‘dumbed down’? And why was it a ‘crap fest of a film’? It was excellent. And just how is Star Trek ‘dead and gone’. Seems it is stronger than it has been since The Voyage Home. It was because of ‘fans’ like you that Trek was allowed to croak, because you were picky about if Data did this in an episode or that Nemesis was this way or whatever, instead of supporting the franchise people like you got picky and it died. Now it is thriving and you want to kill it again!
omg that was amazing – “no, this is Mr. Sulu’s assistant!”
Brilliant
Bill screwed up in 1994 and now wants to have a re-boot of himself! LOL!
I respect Shatner for all he’s done on Trek, but, seriously, he needs to stuff it. He died in Generations. He accepted it, and now he wants back, suggesting they canonize his novels, which weren’t that great, to be honest.
Unless he play’s Kirk’s stepdad, I, IMO, can’t see him in Trek again.
I don’t want to have old (prime) Kirk in the sequel. It would again call for some kind of time travel story. Although this kind of story was necessary for this movie, the next one should about a straight, plain adventure of the new crew. I would be open to a Shatner (not portraying Kirk) cameo, though.
Oh and this is the only trek film to elicit a tear from me, at the beggining when Kirk’s dad sacrifices himself, yesterday, I saw it for a 4th time and had tears rolling down my cheeks! And not for a bad reason either!
Wes W
Warning for flaming, disagree without namecalling please
“He accepted it, and now he wants back, suggesting they canonize his novels, which weren’t that great, to be honest.”
His novels, Ashes of Eden, The Return, Avenger, were excellent! I loved them! They were certainly better than the crap that was Voyager at the time.
#16
Same here. That, along with Data’s death in Nemesis, is one of the most emotional scenes ever in Trek, IMO.
Well, Anthony for that guy to say that Trek is ‘dead’ and ‘gone’ that is foolish to say, it was a sci-fi story, very classic, and had enough of a story and action to make it good. And I loved their costumes back in Nov. ‘07, when I was cast as an extra! As well as the rest of what they were doing. And you could feel electric around Paramount, they knew it was going to be a big hit. Caugh, I mean ‘Corporate Headquarters’! LOL!
@Max Hmmmm! Star Trek dead and gone?! Have you checked the box office status for this weekend? 191M domestically not to mention the global scores? Oh and Anthony only deletes a comment after a warning, considering you haven’t gotten that by now shows how open he can be!!
Having Shatner be in a sequel is a bad idea. I agree with the writers and Abrams that having Shatner in this film would have felt forced. Spock Prime is what made the alternate timeline story in the movie work. Kirk in his Spock Prime’s timeline is dead. No reason for him to be there. Do the events change Kirk’s death? I would say yes since Nero and Spock Prime’s intervention in time and the destruction of Vulcan had a lot of repercussions in the timeline. Kirk’s future could very much be different which works for the writers.
However, that being said, having Shatner appear in a sequel wouldn’t work for me. Another movie dealing with time travel? That’s the only way Shatner could make an appearance. As mush as I love TOS, the movie franchise needs to move on and focus on the new stories of the crew. Plus, time travel, as interesting a sci-fi plot device as it is, can be done to death and everyone would see through that in a sequel.
Message to Abrams and the writers: Boldy Move On….
I think we should move ahead and let the young continue with the new adventures. If however they do bring back a part for Shatner & Nimoy let it be that they return them both back to the Federation retirement home and take away their spaceship license & keys to any time travel ship and let them enjoy those golden years.
I say give Bill a chance. They were going to kill Kirk off whether he was in the movie or not. It wasn’t his choice to kill him.
Whenever Kirk appears without Spock and vice versa, it always just seems slightly off to me. Even in ST09, as good as it was really needed Bill to complement Len.
There’s a million ways to bring Original Kirk and Spock back together if they tried hard enough. Orci and Kurtzman are not the greatest writers out there even though they have had some massive popcorn hits recently (which I’ve enjoyed) I just don’t feel like they have oomph to do prime Kirk’s return justice.
Is Shatner humbled enough by his exclusion from the first film that he could be talked to frankly about this? Something along the lines of “Hey, Bill, with all due respect, we’d love to have you in the movie if we can recapture some of what you used to do with the character.”
It shouldn’t be too hard to suggest that Shatner play the role more like he did in the earlier films, more straight up, less ham. How you ask him to slim down is a tough one.
Karl Urban totally nailed McCoy. Would like to see more lines for him in a sequel.
There’s no good reason for Shatner to not be in the next movie … (altered timeline: Picard and Data keep Soran from launching his trilithium probe – Kirk Prime sill in Nexus – Spock Prime convinces Kirk Prime to leave Nexus for 2258)
#1 says, “Star Trek is truly dead and gone”. Question for you – Can you count to 400 million? Hardly the definition of “dead and gone”. Keep watching your re-runs if you don’t want to stay young at heart or as Young Spock would say, “Live long and prosper! (you conceited piece of —)”.
Canonizing the Shatner novels would be brilliant. Just the first three would be enough. Then you COULD use Kirk prime.
24- How could they kill Kirk off without Shatner? Offscreen, presumably?
28 – I think that would have been the plan.
They’re not going to use the Nexus. There were comments made by Abrams that were made available on this site confirming that they didn’t want to do that.
The sequel is going to have the same dynamic as this one – in other words, accessible for the casual fan. The Nexus, apart from being a dubious story element anyway, would confuse the hell out of the average moviegoer.
And before you say too bad for the average moviegoer, consider that they are the difference between an average Trek box office and the major hit that this one is, and the powers that be are not going to overlook commercial considerations.
More good vibes…nice. I would love TrekMovie to become TrekSequel…I look forward to following all the upcoming bits, rumors, and news in hopes of following the production of TrekXII. Good stuff here, except for Ferguson, who I remember had Shatner on his show a year or two ago…probably won’t see that again…
This might be weak, but what about a Shatner as Kirk role using the motif of the movie Frequency? Shatner doesn’t time travel, but has something to accomplish in the alternate timeline future that ties in to something going on in the new cast’s era.
I’m pretty sick of hearing from Shatner and his misguided sense of entitlement with this new series of films. It also takes a lot of gall to feign interest when he can’t even be bothered to watch this movie. Probably best that he hasn’t, otherwise he’d see that Chris Pine outshines him on every level as an actor. I don’t get why this site keeps reporting this stuff as news…
It would be nice to see the original cast one last time on the big screen. All of them. Well you know, Shatner, Nimoy, Nichols, Koenig and Takei. But I know that it’s not going to happen. Too bad.
Allenburch (Comment 26) has an idea that intrigues me.
Since the Nexus is a non-linear phenomenon, it’s possible that it’s existence, and subsequently it’s inhabitants, isn’t/aren’t(word choice?) pinpointed into one specific reality and that Kirk(Prime) could exit in the Altered Reality just as he did the Prime reality.
I still don’t want Shat in the next Trek, but if O&K wanted to do it, i’d say give Allenburch a chance to further that thought.
All they have to do is another Comic Book Prequel to get Shatner in the next movie.
…comic could be a Nexus thing…a Borg resurrection thing…anything…
Main-stream peeps wouldn’t have to know how Kirk Prime get’s there but lotsa lotsa people love Shatner.
33 – I don’t get why this site keeps reporting this stuff as news…
because not everyone agrees with your view of shatner. It’s great that you have an opinion, but feeling strongly about it doesn’t make it fact. There are a lot of people who grew up watching William Shatner as James T. Kirk and want to see him play the role one more time.
And comments by a potential cast member, or the director of the movie regarding potential casting is by definition news about Star Trek.
I agree, the Nexus is not an option. I’m sure if the guys over at 24 can bring Tony back, then J.J. can bring Kirk P back a hell of a lot better than that or using the Nexus.
TBH though, maybe the best route would be to let it go. I don’t want to see the next film be time travel / alternate universe (unless it’s mirror) and by the time they did a third film Bill would be in his 80’s.
The one thing I really hope they don’t do after this series of films is finished is recast. It was hard enough accepting it once. I love the Star Trek universe and love the way it evolves and want to know more post Nemesis. I’ll never forget when TNG started and the Klingons were at peace with the federation and even had one serving aboard the Enterprsie! It’s this ever changing canvas, the characters and the history it holds that I love.
I hear the sequel will involve time travel again. The Enterprise travels back in time to save the sperm whale. Shatner will play the whale.
He could play Pine’s grandfather Tiberius otherwise it would be an obvious attempt to appease the “Bring back Kirk” crowd. The only other possibility is a revisit to the Nexus but that would also be contrived.
As far as the sequel goes, I hope it keeps the action and the epic scale of the current one. If Shat is on board then that would be cool too, especially if they can make up for his lame/unnecessary death in Generations.
But I REALLY hope that they can avoid the many plot holes that plagued this one (and I’m not talking about canon stuff, just things that really should have been avoided). That was the only thing that disappointed me about this one.
Shatner doesn’t need to be in the sequel…I don’t think it would work, but if anyone can make it work it will be Orci, Kurtzman, and JJ Abrams.
34 – That’s what Star Trek VI was.
Anthony Pascale #17, Wes W.
Are you remonstrating with Wes W for calling Max a ‘fool’? Was that the name calling?
Might I postulate that anyone who can incorrectly state in writing, that ‘Star Trek is truly dead’, when all eveidence suggests the reverse to be the ‘truth’ (truly) actually qualifies as being foolish?
Just an alternative observation.
Live long and prosper.
I love this new film and it was great to see Nimoy play Spock once again. However, I don’t think Shatner is capable of playing Kirk again. He hasn’t been Kirk since TWOK. If they are misguided enough to put him in the next one, he better not play Kirk like the pansy twit he was in Generations.
Including Shatner would tend to make me avoid the next film, rather than look forward to it. They’ve proven Trek can be a success without him, why risk their formula just to please some hardcore fans?
Please, PLEASE, no Bill.
Thank god at least one character stayed true to the source material….I think Urban out shined all of them and hopefully he plays an even bigger role in the next film…His dead-on Kelly impression would impressed his superior who left us all those years ago…and as you can see….he’s a trekkie…this film needed a fan’s touch in some way and thankfully it was from him…you can tell in his other interviews that he actually cares
William Shatner is THE MAN.
But I have to say no Shat in the next film. Bob — keep it fresh, keep it original…please…
For Shat to be in it, the whole plot would have to be written around him — otherwise, it would just be a kind of lame cameo.
Please. No.
24. Chris
I have to respectfully disagree about Nimoy needing Shatner. There is so going on in the movie that I think he could’ve ended up falling by the wayside, and I personally think the movie was awesome as it was. In fact, the first thing that came to mind when I walked out of the theater was “Wow, Shatner wasn’t is this movie, was he? Huh.” I realized that I didn’t miss him. I’ll agree that Shatner could be in the next one, but it has to serve the story “organically”, as boborci is so fond of saying.
So, if Shatner is kicking himself for killing Kirk off in Generations, and now wants in on the sequel, does that mean the Shat has been through his own kind of reboot?
No to Shatner in the new movie. Sorry, Bill. As much as I love your Kirk, it’s time for new actors.
God, I love how Quinto, Pine and Urban are at least well-spoken during interviews! Most of today’s actors can’t even string a sentence together unless they have a script!
They still could always redo the episode “The Deadly Years”. Who’s better to play an elderly Kirk than William Shatner. No time travel required. Or maybe they could film an ending for the third film where 100 something years in the future we see an elderly Kirk alive and well in Picard’s time that would be a cool bookend ending if all they do is a trilogy. That would leave thing open for new movies in TNG era! There are many possibilities. Maybe even Tasha Yar might still be alive and well!
Comments»
1. Max – May 25, 2009
“Ahh Urban probably the only good thing to come out of this crap fest of a film, even Spock prime was dumbed down for Gen Y.
Star Trek is truly dead and gone, now watch this post get deleted because only positive posts are allowed on this website.”
Anthony should delete it, just for the insults. His call.
Get over yourself and actually SEE the film with an open mind and a closed mouth for about 126 minutes. Consider it an investment in character development.
I can see it now…….the young crew in the new, accepted, alternate reality travel to the Prime universe, only to find they must now enter a realm called the Nexus in order to rescue the older version of the Kirk character…..
Oh, yeah, THIS could work!
Puh-lease, no Shatner in the next film!
#1 – Sorry you didn’t like it.
Been a fan since 1965 and feel energized with the new movie. Sorry that the new movie doesn’t grab you in the same way, as I can’t wait to see what they’re going to do for the next one. The bar has been raised!
And I am also excited at the potential for a new TV series. Can you imagine a rebooted Next Generation? I can’t wait…..!
I love that we’re right back where we started with the Will-Bill-Shatner-Should-Bill-Shatner-Be-In-The-Movie question. It’s like the TNG episode Cause and Effect… we can just keep doing this till the end of time… or till Kelsey Grammar pops out of a nebula. Maybe he’ll be in the next movie?
#51 – did you like the movie? Curious to find out
I grew up on Star Trek TOS and while I’d love to see Shatner as Kirk one more time, the reality is that he probably isn’t up to it. His acting style has really changed over the years and the Shatner of today is largely a hammy parody of his former self. About the only thing I’ve seen him do in the last decade is self-deprecating commercials and his offbeat Denny Crane. Add to that the fact that he’s put on a lot of weight and his facial structure is so different and I just don’t see how he could be taken seriously anymore.
Also, if he really wants to be in a new movie maybe it would help if he actually tried watching the new Star Trek for himself to see just what they’re doing. His comments about wanting to be involved are really meaningless since he seems to know so little about the new creative team or the franchise’s direction. Compare that with Nimoy’s careful, measured decision to come back after being appraised of the story and creative staff and it looks to me like William Shatner is just doing what he always does: trying to drum up more publicity for William Shatner.
Kirk being dead is not an issue in the new timeline. Shatner can play the old version of Chris Pine.
Just because they didn’t have tons of scenes of them explaining what’s going on science wise doesn’t mean they dumbed it down. They still had scenes of that, but if you look back and the movies you didn’t have all the technobable in TOS movies like you did in the TNG movies.
To be honest from what it sounds like you want it to be what it became more than what it was. This, to me, pays homage to what star trek was as opposed to what it became.
I loved TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, but the format of the TV shows were a lot different than the movies. The movies were more fun and exciting, where as the TV show was a little slower paced because they had more time to play with the story lines.
Max you’re not looking past your nose with this. Seriously take a look at the movies and tell me that they are anything like the newer shows. I don’t think you honestly could.
I LOVED the first movie.
The only way I wouldn’t see the sequel is if that arrogant egomaniac Shatner is in it. What a disgusting self-promoter he is.
#54
David, I LOVED the new movie!! It was so much FUN, it reminded me of the flavour of TOS 1966-9!!
Sure, the story had enough loopholes in it to fly a Klingon Bird of Prey through, but who cares? It was 126 minutes of fun action that never let up!
It’s the kind of movie I could watch 4 or 5 times! That’s good enough for me!
Sadly, the Star Trek that you knew would never do so well at the box office. This new trek is meant for a new Generation of fans. For me, it was a great movie. Watched it 3 times so far. I feel it did bring out the old feeling of Trek, just in a new skin. I pray the sequel will be even better than this one!
NO NO No! The next film should be entirely about the NEW cast and the NEW adventures.
As for sequels, how many do you think this crew will hang around? Any more than three will be a miracle. Unless they all end up having the same kind of careers the original crew had, the new crew wont want to play spacemen every 2/3 years for the rest of their lives.
I can just see the paramount execs now:
exec #1 “hey, the fans and public sucked up and loved the Kirk and co’s earlier adventures. Why don’t we do the same for Picard?
exec#2 “Great idea, we’ll have him in the academy with Riker, Troi and a pregnant Bev Crusher who’s secretly haviung his child!”
exec#1″were geniuses!”
#1. Max
You are Correct!! PREACH!!!! brother PREACH.
Oh and HELL Yes to Shatner/Kirk in The Next Trek Movie!!
#34 Regrettably, I think the only scenario in which we could ever believably see the TOS actors in their original roles would be if JJ were to have another version of “The Deadly Years.” Kirk, Spock, Sulu, Uhura, and Chekov age while Scotty and Bones would experience an adrenaline surge, thereby keeping them young as Chekov was in the original episode. Bob Orci, et. al. feel free to use that for a sequel!
I’d like to see Shatner in the sequel. I hope they find a couple of Real hotties for Chapel and Rand too!!
Hayden Panettiere for Janice Rand I say!!!
Don’t put Khan in the Next one, that would just be Horrible. If the Shat wants to come back I say Let Him.
What would Shatner add to the sequel in terms of storytelling that we haven’t seen before? Does Shatner really matters for the new expanded audience? Wouldn’t that confuse or bore them? Would they (and ST fans) enjoy seeing an old Kirk played by the guy whom they recognize as the bloated clown from the Priceline Negotiator ads?
If we were talking about Batman, the question would be like: Would anyone want to see Adam West in the next Batman just because he played the caped crusader for so many years?
Shatner was a great Kirk, but his days as the great captain are gone. IMHO if the new movie proved anything was that ST can live without the original actors.
Guys, it makes even less sense for Shatner to be in the sequel now that the time travel business has been put to bed. No more cameos, just give us a juicy story with our new crew.
No Shat. NO KHAN!
Let’s see something original.
Well, it looks like the door is shat, er, I mean shut on the issue of Shatner appearing in the next film!
Shatner will be a Klingon in the new movie, perfect compromise an nod to the TOS
#66 RT Son Of Sarek — That would be nice, however, it wouldn’t make sense for them to age AND all gain weight. :D
#64 Well, they are under contract for two more movies… so they are good for at least two more.
As far as the Shatner issue… please leave him out of it. I want to see the new crew going boldly on a new adventure. No Kahn, No Doomsday Machine, No Guardian… Please give us something new.
William Shatner can come as some evil Kirk from the new future. It’ll shock everybody and imagine how difficult it would be for Prime Spock to bare.
I know how to fix this, declare everything after Trek 6 non-canon. Then you have Kirk not dying and Data not dying. Two for one. No B-4, No Nexus, No Soran. Everything is fixed.
I agree with #72, let Shatner be in the movie if he does a cameo of an alien or something, please no “Kirk Prime”.
Shat was the greatest in TOS. I hate to say it again, but better to not find a way to put him into the new movies…
You COULD bring back the Shatmonster, but only if he were to commit to serious weight loss so Abrams would have to go all Industrial Light and Magic on the Shat’s midsection.
Personally, I’m all for bringing back Gaila so the Future Shat and Older Gaila can confront Young Pine and Young Gaila.
Gaila sez: “I married that?”
I didn’t realize how crappy Ferguson was. pitiful.
On the other Hand Urban had Deforest spot on, and really shows respect to trek and the fans. refreshing.
I want to see Shatner and Nimoy one more time.
Their characters desreve to walk off into the sunset together with a sense of dignity. I don’t want my last memory of Shatner’s Kirk falling off a bridge to a useless death.
#79
Hey, listen, they’ve come a long way with special effects, galaxies forming, ships blowing up, but depicting Shatner as slim and younger? C’mon, there are limits!!
Shatner in the 21st Century is perfectly primed to play Cyrano Jones: Tribble Negotiator
ROFL @ 83
If they wanna ruin Trek 2, then by all means, bring in Shatner’s fat ass.
Don’t forget it was high cholesterol and a heart attack that killed him on Veridian 3, not by surfing a plunging bridge!
Shatner era is loooong gone. Wake up people! … it’s 2009.
Thumbs up to JJ Abrams and the new Enterprise crew.
Great vid… I actually loved Urban’s portrayal of Bones… he was totally true to the character as played by the late great Deforest Kelley… the characters were all great homages to the originals but the storyline of the movie was not in keeping with the other series…. the timeline changes made no sense and left many holes in the future of Star Treks history, it was the only thing about the movie that made totally no sense, other than that… loved it and would definitely watch it again!!
This movie was a runaway hit without you, Bill. It’s over.
#86-I would say the actors did a good job with what they were given. Quinto could make a great Spock, if given the chance, which he wasn’t in this movie. Spock in this movie was a grumpy fit thrower; it was pathetic that he could be induced to nearly kill Kirk, the only thing worse being the Spock Prime suggested it. Totally out of character does not even begin to cover it.
The destruction of Vulcan seem to be an exercise in “let’s see how much in Star Trek we can slash-and-burn in order to make it like Star Wars”.
Urban was very good as Bones, but was only used for comedic effect: he did not serve as Kirk’s conscience. One could argue that relationship had not formed yet, but still it was missed. It appears that they went through the motions with these characters, but really didn’t understand them, or understood them but didn’t care. It was really very disappointing.
At least Will Farrell wasn’t in it.
Let me clarify, I was referring to the writers not understanding the characters: I think the actors did a fine job, with what they were given.
The only way they could make it worse is try to shoehorn Kirk into the sequel.
In meant Older Kirk, Kirk Prime?, Shatner as Kirk, is what I mean. The scene in this movie might have worked, but I can’t see a good way to put Shatner in a sequel.
Kirk died a pathetic death and that’s that. We don’t need Shatner waddling around like an overfed tick, threatening to burst from his uniform, just to “set things right.”
The next film belongs to the new guys. Shatner would just be an annoying intrusion. He doesn’t deserve a spot in the movie simply because of his connection to the series, nor the stupid way in which Kirk died. Especially if it would harm the film. Putting him in would be the cinematic equivalent of cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face. I’m tired of Star Trek killing off its characters only to bring them back again and again and again. I can’t believe some of you are demanding that kind of lazy crappy story device. Ain’t it been used enough?
I would hope J.J. and the crew are smarter than to even conceive of doing this.
I’ll say it here first, if Bob and Alex take my idea, I get a cut of the sequel proceeds.
The only way I see Shatner in the sequel would be as a cameo, like where Kirk and Spock reminisce about their advetures of old, like a big flashback to an old adveture.
Alternately, young Kirk and Spock could somehow travel into the future and meet up with their older selves to save the day!
hmmmm.
66. Son of Sarek — What a GREAT way to get them all in the film! But that would make a great episode, not an entire film, imho.
#60 “The only way I wouldn’t see the sequel is if that arrogant egomaniac Shatner is in it. What a disgusting self-promoter he is.”
No one will miss your 9 bucks. Bye!
It blows me away the amount of hatred some of you guys have for William Shatner. I never thought Trek fans could be so mean. Sure I understand you may want to keep him out of it so the new crew can shine on their own, but to resort to insults and name calling…wow, in a sad way.
Urban was fantastic. I wonder what influence he would have gotten from DeForest Kelly were he still alive.
I think Quinto played Spock the way Nimoy would have as a young man if he had the chance to do it again, knowing what he knows now. I think that’s the point of Spock Prime’s advice to young Spock. He really isn’t speaking to Spock. He is talking to US, the audience. He is telling us not to hold on to our old notions of how these characters were. He is telling us to let them grown with these new actors and wishing all of us Good Luck.
I don’t think JJ should bring Shatner back into the fold. Wasn’t it Bill who said the famous “Get A Life” line? Maybe he needs to take a bit of his own advice here.
“67. Captain Cameron goes Berserk!! – May 25, 2009
I’d like to see Shatner in the sequel. I hope they find a couple of Real hotties for Chapel and Rand too!!
Hayden Panettiere for Janice Rand I say!!!”
That would be too weird. Seeing Quinto and Panettiere in Star Trek together. No, better to keep Heroes references separate from Star Trek references.
#86 “Don’t forget it was high cholesterol and a heart attack that killed him on Veridian 3, not by surfing a plunging bridge!”
And my diagnosis is that you became a “Spectre” due to a fatal shortage of neurons in the brain.
If the Supreme Court is reading the “votes” cast here by opinions on some key questions/issues…then my vote for William Shatner in the Star Trek II(A)….NO WAY….and I’ll try you why:
The most hard-to-shallow moments of the new film involved time travel and alternate realities. Forget about this stuff and move on. The slate is now clean for TOS characters in the new timeline.
Kirk is dead. The Shat took the big payday back in 1994. Sorry you’re bummin’ now.
Trek in the last 10 to 15 years was watered down and mostly uninteresting because of the much-maligned “re-set button.” Writers/producers became so afraid of upsetting the suits and fans than their most dramatic work had to undone by the end of the episode or movie through some use of the “re-set button.” The most exciting Voyager story ever told…IMHO…never happened. Exhibit A: Year in Hell. One of the most poignant moments in Nemesis should have been Data’s death. Who didn’t see the “fix” coming by the end of the second reel? Exhibit B: B4. For those of you suggesting that Kirk’s death in Generations can be “fixed” through time travel, alternate time-lines or the Nexus…please stop selling so hard! Vulcan and Amanda Grayson are gone!! This new creative team seems committed to abolishing the “re-set button”…much to their credit and critical/financial success. I wonder what the reviews might have been like and if word-of-mouth would have been as strong if JJ and Team had wimped out and found a way to neatly undo the fates of Spock’s mother and home planet. (To be honest…I was expecting it. After all, I’ve been “trained” to believe the re-set button was an acceptable form of storytelling during the waning end of the Berman-Braga years. NOT ANYMORE! WE ARE FREE!)
Star Trek II(A) has to stand on its own. How silly would to be to have some contrivance that would allow an original cast/character to appear in the second film as well as the first. Suspension of disbelief is one thing….but come on.
William Shatner has meant more to the history of Star Trek than just about anyone else, but I’m sorry to say…again IMHO… in his current physical condition and reputation, he doesn’t make for a believable Capt. James T. Kirk. He’s become a parody of himself and is better off playing The Negotiator.
I throw myself on the mercy of the Supreme Court…no Shatner (or other TOS cameos) in the sequels. You pulled off the miracle by making black holes, time travel and alternate time-lines actually work. Don’t push your luck…and boldly go forward!
Max is probably just complaining because he thinks it’ll make him look cool, although I’m sure he’ll try to deny it.
I like William Shatner, I really do… But he needs to let the appearing-in-a-new-Trek-movie thing go. It would be awkward and ham-handed, and we as fans deserve better.
The reason the franchise has been on the rocks for so long is that, for the past several years, The Powers That Be thought they could serve up a steaming pile of crap (Enterprise, anyone?), and as long as they slapped a Starfleet insignia on it, we’d slurp it right up. Well, guess what — we won’t. We want well-thought-out plots, good acting, and solid action, and, sadly, that doesn’t include squeezing in a particular actor just so he can have his ego stroked.
Bringing Nimoy back made perfect sense for the plot of this movie. Bringing Shatner back makes no sense at all.
And besides, complaining just makes you look like a whiney butt.
Shatner should only be crew #2 in the next movie
It does if you whine on and on like you’re going out of your way to trash a movie that most people think is awesome.
Tiberius Kirk, George’s dad, was mentioned in the movie. Bill could play that role.
This new movie is so good why do all you people want to go back to the campy crap the Moore, Braga, Berman would do.
This movie is letting trek go forward and this letting shatner in the new movie will start the slide into crap again.
#109 “why do all you people want to go back to the campy crap…”
Maybe you should take it up with JJ? In case you haven’t followed along, he’s been saying in new interviews that Shatner could be in the sequel. Everyone needs to remember that this is NOT all coming from Bill.
109 – Freddy. Moore, Braga and Berman did a hell of a lot of good Trek. Sure some was bad but for the most part it was more than servicable and in quite a few instances classic. I’ll admit Berman did grind the franchise into the ground with too many wrong decisions, but lets not conveniently forget the good stuff just because it’s now cool to hate on anything TNG era.
109 – Lets not forget Moore brought us the new BSG, surely the best true reboot of a franchise ever.
#94: “I can’t believe some of you are demanding that kind of lazy crappy story device.”
We’re pitching our hopes at the creative team’s apparent comfort zone.
All of the series had good episodes. TNG and DS9 had the best, as far as I’m concerned. But storytellers have only so many stories in them. Berman and co. should have been replace before Voyager. This changing of the guard we see in the films will also have to be done on TV. Or so I hope. I’d really like another Trek series.
114 – I agree. It’s only a matter of time methinks.
#110 “Everyone needs to remember that this is NOT all coming from Bill.”
Um that’s just JJ being shrewd and polite. Or is the Shat’s ham-handed way of doing showbiz how you think everyone does it in Hollywood?
#115 A very long time I hope! Why water the product down again. Less is more. Quality over quantity I say.
Since this is now a parallel timeline, Kirk might not die in the future as he did in Generations in the prime timeline. So with time travel it’s quite easy to have him in one of the sequels. But that would create yet another parallel timeline that branches off from the newly established alternate universe. So even if bringing back Shatner is not really a problem, do we need that? Do we need him? I don’t think so. We have a new Kirk. Shatner’s Kirk should only be included in a sequel if he’s to play a pivotal part in the story like Spock Prime in ST09.
117. Buzz Cagney
I’d agree with that. Trek was hurt by oversaturation. That said, I wouldn’t mind seeing a new series, to be honest.
If Boborci reads this, have you guys talked to/been asked by Paramount about developing a new trek series?
To say Shatner can’t be in the sequel because he died in Generations is ludicrous. They just created a whole new parallel universe for god sakes! If we are going to accept that, we can accept an older Kirk popping up from some other dimension.
Please, no more Shatner. Nimoy was enough. If introducing Shatner in ST11 was not “organic” it certainly won’t be in the sequel. Even having Nimoy in ST12 will feel forced. It’s time to let the NEW cast take over.
Iam sorry but It doesnt have to involve time travel, to feature shatner as an older kirk in the new movie.
i for one am hopeing that Nimoy returns for trek xii, if thats the case there is no reason why they couldnt use shatner as kirk via, a flashback(or would that be flash forward) to an event or encounter between ambassador spock(wish they would have listed him in the credits as ambassador spock instead of that spock prime crap)
and the Elder Captian kirk sometime prior to the nexus that has relavence to something in Trek XII.
LOL!
Love Craig Ferguson (from my home country)
The idea of Shatner showing up on movie sets trying to get hired however is an idea I came up with (and recorded about 6 years ago)
In this one he meets the Simpsons…
http://tinyurl.com/r6f6ew
: )
While the style is one of hurling invectives, the first post has a point. This new film is indeed dumbed down for the current generation. I watched TWOK tonight. Like with reading, the older movies made you THINK as you filled in the slower pacing with your mind and concentration. The new movie is meant to go by so fast that you cannot THINK.
I like the new movie very, very much, actually. It’s a lot of fun with some good character development. But I do miss Thinking. Star Trek used to be about thinking.
And I agree with the posters who pointed out how Shatner can’t even be bothered to see the film. I love his James T. Kirk. I have no use for William Shatner, however. I heard him referred to as a bloated, buffoon pitchman. Works for me.
we have a new start, we had a passing of the torch, and we had timetravel which the writers said they wouldn’t want to revisit, so how would they bring shatner in…
bill the old man has no dignity, unlike nimoy.
sorry if it offends others, but the I don’t want yet another Shatner has to be in the movie saga.
#125 is correct. I love Shatner, I even own the Encyclopedia Shatnerica, but watching him tonight in “Patterns of Force” I felt like I’d rather be watching Chris Pine.
I don’t see how old Kirk would fit in the sequel without having a contrived plot. The reboot needed time travel. Ok. Done. Now let Trek go on, please.
#124 – well said.
#124
I see your point about slow pace and thinking. My fav Trek movie is TMP, just to let you know. But the “dumbed down” matter is something that I keep hearing more and more from people of my age (35+). It’s like “when I was young, things were better”. My father keeps telling me that his 50s movies were far better than mine.
#124 – even though the movie has been widely assumed to be “dumbed down”, many people still can’t understand the storyline properly! and questions like
“if Narada was capable of time-travel, why wouldn’t Nero just save Romulus by going back one day instead of 154 years”
“Kirk rejected Pike’s offer, so why did he enlist after all?!”
seem to pop EVERYWHERE.
Is it really “dumbed down” then?
The next film should be something fresh and exciting…here’s an idea – ACTUALLY seek out new life and new civilizations!
That’s what’s been missing in every trek film! Honest-to-goodness STAR TREK!
William Shatner will alwyas be Kirk
Chris Pine was excellent but best Kirk will always be WIlliam Shatner
I loved the new film (seen it four times) but I treat it separate from the rest of Trek. Only Elder Spock is canon to me.
The new film captures the spirit of Trek, but I do agree it is dumbed down. But the whole movie is a parellel timeline and to me I am including the Kelvin as a parallel.
The Kelvin is an excellent opening, I am in tears everytime I have seen it.
But please JJ, don’t use a Budweiser brewery for Engineering in the next film.
#131 “seek out new life and new civilizations!. That’s what’s been missing in every trek film! Honest-to-goodness STAR TREK!”
Actually, imo TMP was the only one to follow that theme. And it was the best one :)
@ 21
I think what he meant was that Star Trek’s soul is gone. It’s heart, soul and integrity sold out. So in that sense he is right. It truly is dead.
What I saw in the theatre was a Star Wars movie.
@130
yeah, the movie is really dumbed down. There was nothing to reflect on after the movie was over. It was just instant gratification with all the action. When the movie was over i was like “man, that was a great action movie!” But what did I come away with it when I saw it? I couldn’t think of any theme or philosophy that illicited any thought in me whatsoever. The movie was brainless. The plot may be complex to some. But watch Trek I, II, or even Trek V. There is no comparison with this movie.
@135
So what did you walk away with after watching First Contact then?
#134 “I think what he meant was that Star Trek’s soul is gone. It’s heart, soul and integrity sold out. So in that sense he is right. It truly is dead.”
That’s a bit of an exaggeration. The last movies and the last series were quite mediocre. I didn’t see much soul and integrity in them.
#83
Exactly.
Shatner in STXII as Prime Kirk alive and kickin’ post Generations. Hell, I think this could even make me go see an Abrams movie… :)
#136 “So what did you walk away with after watching First Contact then?”
Hey, zombies can be killed by holograms! :)
Ok so lets skip time travel – and get into a real good adventure story for the next film! With no original cast in it at all!
Подойдя к второму обзацу необходимо будет побороть в себе желание его пропустить
Still think Paramount should give Harve and Nick a call, but hey, what do I know! ha
I’m a big Spock/Nimoy fan but this movie made me really LIKE and care for Kirk for the first time. Pretty please don’t ruin that with bringing on Shatner in the next movie.
143. Black Fire,
I just realized the same thing. I never really cared about what happened to Kirk before, because you always knew he would be alright in the end. In a sense, the end of each TOS episode was a sort of reset, with each week a new set of circumstances to be dealt with and then put behind them at the end as if it didn’t happen. Chris Pine’s performance made me care about Kirk in a way I hadn’t before.
#130: “Is it really “dumbed down” then?”
It’s both dumbed-down and overcomplicated; the two aren’t mutually exclusive, since complications can themselves be dumb and “dumb” need not equal simple or comprehensible.
“The more they overwork the plumbing …”
But hey, it’s fast and it’s funny and it’s action-packed and it has Zoe Saldana’s legs in it. So, it’s good for what it is.
@135
I remember leaving the theatre after watching First Contact ( I was still in high school) feeling a lot of things:
I felt bad that I wasn’t going to see the TNG crew for another 2 years or so.
The struggle with Data trying to be human. I thought about that a lot during the next generation and it was great to see that struggle of what it means to really be human ultimately told in the finale with Data.
And that scene with Stewart and Woodward arguing about blowing up the ship. What a great scene. Going into the psychology of what makes Picard tick, and hating the borg so much. And finally finding the reason within himself to see past that hate and do what he needs to be done. That scene was done perfectly. It was a theme that really resonated in the movie as it did with Khan in Trek II. You went into the psychology of Picard just as you did with Khan. And it was intelligent, other than this movie where it was just…well…not. The new trek movie moved so quick and was just action action action, there was nothing really there when all the action was over. It seems like it’s made just for kids.
But hey, if you like it, kudos to you. I’ll just stick with the first 10 Star Trek movies…even Insurrection over Trek11.
#1 — What a moron. What movie did you see, dumbass?
Comment to #30 Andrew C – “And before you say too bad for the average moviegoer, consider that they are the difference between an average Trek box office and the major hit that this one is.”
That is definitely true, but accessibility to the average moviegoer is also the difference between a great story and a mediocre one. If you have to be a Trekkie to care about the plot, that’s writing with low expectations, and it’s not even going to be good Trek.
This latest movie was a great Star Trek story because they remembered those average moviegoers. Thanks goodness!
It’s all OK, but PLEASE, put Shatner on a serious diet first!
Please please please please lets focus on the new actors. How contrived would a story have to be to shoehorn any of the original actors (not just Shatner) in now?
Even as a cameo as another character wold be such a “me! me! me!” moment it would detract from the rest of the film. Nimoys role in this film was essential, but leave it there.
#1 Oh how you have made me laugh… It’s not even worth repsonding to such rubbish.
I would love the Shat in there, for me it would make the “new” timeline complete… love the film,and would love the sequal all the more for the Shat in there.
#1 – Max, you knob-head. A trek hater I’m sure – Star Wars lover perhaps? A little steamed that a Trek film shows you CAN have action, effects AND heart. Maybe George can learn from this…
ST09 is about Spock, in my opinion. The constant fight between emotions and logic. The look in his eyes when he loses her beloved mother is really moving. The loss of his planet. The loss of his civilization. Sarek admitting the love for Amanda. The movie was about characters, no doubt about it.
#147, #152:
What’s the point of the name-calling?
#151:
If it’s not worth responding, why respond?
136 – What I came away ith from First Contact was “wow, what a great remake of Aliens just not as good as the Camerons classic” Every single part of that film except the time travel was ripped straaight out of Aliens.
#154… I think we are allowed to voice an opinion on another opinion… just as you have now chum.
WOW now we are onto slagging films gone by.. oh well makes a change from slatting the new one… makes me wonder why some “fans” are so..
The Wild Man of Borneo -
I don’t think Star Trek is great cinema. If you want something great to chew on, then watch something like The Third Man or Citizen Kane. Trek is interesting for entirely different reasons. The series carries with it some nice themes, but Data’s quest for humanity in First Contact was hardly exploited as well as it was in, say, Blade Runner. The storytelling wasn’t as masterful, nor do I expect it to be. For one thing, there was hardly a sense that Picard had anything to lose. I mean the Borg were advancing, but I think it at least needs to attempt to show lasting consequences born out by Picard’s bad decisions, and all it had was the questionable death of a barely named officer no one cared about. TWOK was endearing partly because it was willing to make the hard decisions – Spock’s death (even though they were going to bring him back, they wrestled with the opposite idea).
The thing I do like about this Trek is that it was willing to pull a very big punch. It tried to be evocative. And to counter Max’s point – I think that style can be substance if it is done evocatively and in service to the story. After all, beautifully stylized movies are often remembered. This movie doesn’t attempt to reinvent the entire way action movies are stylized, but there are some wonderful decisions here. I love the lens flare. I love (from an evocative perspective) the beautiful image of Spock watching in agony as his planet is destroyed. The space shots are done most amazingly of all. There is no sense of direction in space. Numerous shots are done upside down or from the side. Some scan an entire ship completely askew. The opening shot of the movie alone is amazing. I also love the wide shots in space, denoting the vast emptiness. And, of course, no one will forget the image of the crew member being sucked into space. These examples aren’t vacuous at all. I would say that they are part of the reason of why I love cinema so much to begin with.
No, you’re not going to find any sweeping philosophy in this movie, but this film works better if you think of it as snapshots of individual character moments held loosely together by several interconnecting themes – the battle of the human and Vulcan sides of Spock, the emerging friendships, the way in which Kirk finds his destiny by respecting Pike and finding out what it means to bear responsibility. It’s not perfect. I don’t like the way they fast-tracked Kirk to captaincy, as I thought that there was a lost opportunity with character building. But I think that the film does a lot of interesting things that should stir some emotion within most people.
#158 “I think that style can be substance if it is done evocatively and in service to the story”
Totally agreed. Look at paintings in an art gallery, it’s all about evoking emotions. Art is a subtle balance between mind, heart and stomach.
I have lost all respect for the Shat just lately. We dont need him back in Trek, he’s tooooooooo old and FAT !!!!
Agreeing with #26 re/Karl Urban; great stint as McCoy. That would be my main complaint with the new TREK; not enough screen/story time for McCoy, and criminal lack of use of Urban.
#158/Great thoughts and points. One thing I’d like to bring to the debate is, well, did they always plan to bring back Spock?
As I recall, Nimoy didn’t want to do the character anymore, as I according to my very pre-internet readings (Starlog, Cinefantastique, Omni, etc.). He came back for a movie (TMP) but was not going to come back for a weekly series again (ST:P2). When TMP made a lot of money, but left many feeling a bit un-Trek with it, a sequel (not called “Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan” by the way; there was no “II” and it was either “Revenge of Khan” or “Vengeance of Khan” depending on which magazine you read). The purveying rumor was that the only way Nimoy would come back is if they killed off the character (and some reference was made to Heston in “Planet of the Apes”, who said he’d only return for the sequel if they killed him; which they did, but they fleshed it out a lot).
Nimoy returned for STIII via landing in a director’s chair. What if they hadn’t offered him that? Would Spock have stayed dead? Meyer had been quoted that the shot showing the “soft landing” of the torpedo tube was essentially an afterthought. Was it really always the plan to bring him back? I really remember there being talk that TWOK was seen as more of a proper Trek film (at the premiers, people didn’t ask “Is it good?” to those leaving, they simply asked “Is it STAR TREK?”) if there was going to be no more Trek.
Again, it’s been many many years and stories are prone to revision. As you guys in my age group (born during TOS’ original run) or older may recall, George Lucas originally tagged STAR WARS “From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker”; he had no grand backstory no matter what he said *after* he made a few bazillion dollars off the initial film. Wish I still had those Starlog and Bantha Tracks issues to quote; lost to the ages and one big hurricane.
re/#161 — Sorry for a lot of half-sentences and run-ons; it’s early yet and only on one cup of half-caf coffee.
As much as I love Shatner…it’s just seems like pandering to allow him to be in the next movie/// Takei will want to be in the third one and Nichelle in the 4th and so on and so on…I would n’t mind the others as much maybe playing the characters parents or grandparents etc, but without a time travel story,(which they have already said they would not do again), or some lame return to the “nexus”, it would be far fetched to have him join the cast…reaching, pandering,or just lame…take your pick…
On another note…wow to the weekend take.. 3rd in it’s 3rd weekend to premiers like T4 and Stiller is pretty awesome…Stiller, like Hanks is a huge Trek fan, so he probably hopes Trek does well…
Monsters and Aliens, at 193 mil+, is in sight after today…and Trek can take it’s place as the #1 grossing movie for 2009!!!!
200 mil by this weekend!!!!
Shatner is still Kirk
Pine is a great Successor but Shatner is the one and only Kirk
As a huge Shatner-as-Kirk fan, I have no objections to seeing him in the sequel. Of course he would want to be in it — 1) he’s an actor; 2) he will always be best remembered as Kirk; 3) it would make for a lot of hype and publicity.
That said, I feel strongly that the idea of putting Mr. Shatner in a film simply for the sake of putting him there would be a terrible mistake. You don’t create a plot around wanting to include an actor in the show. This is why he wasn’t in the first film, after all.
Also, it seems to me that including Shatner in the sequel would tend to make part of a new trilogy… since we saw Spock Prime in the first movie, seeing Kirk Prime (or some resurrected form of Kirk) would be going along the same line, creating a common thread between the two films. And so the 3rd film in the series should include all the remaining members of the original cast? (Hmmmm…. perhaps there is some strange collision of parallel universes going on.) But I’m not really hoping for a trilogy.
The one thing that does work is that Kirk no longer needs to have died in the Prime universe… which still exists, but doesn’t… sort of…
But if anyone could pull it off, I’m sure the Supreme Court will.
Here’s to continued success!!!!
The only way I could see it happen is if the plot had the characters rapidly aging, similar to that old TOS episode which I can’t recall the name of now. So instead of corny make-up or CGI, they could put Shatner in to play an elderly Chris Pine. But to have yet ANOTHER time travel/alternate reality plot in the sequel would just be contrived and transparently obvious as a means to get Shatner on screen again. I just don’t want it at all. I love Shatner’s Kirk, but I don’t want to see an elderly, out of shape Kirk on screen. Give the character dignity, he had a heroic death in Generations, as befitting the character.
I didn’t have as much problem with elderly Spock, since that was already established in TNG, it MADE SENSE since Vulcan’s live longer, and Nimoy is able to portray Spock at that age with grace and dignity. On the other hand, I don’t think we should see what Captain Kirk might look like at 80 years old! It just doesn’t fit the mold of the character at all. We were lucky enough to get Shatner for all those years when he was in his prime and could do the character justice. Really. It’s time to move on.
Nimoy and Quinto are believable in ST09 because they actually look like they could be Spock and Spock Prime. Chris Pine does not look like young William Shatner. And that is fine. As long as the original actor and the new actor do not appear in the same movie, there is no need to have a close resemblance. Maybe Shatner can be in the movie playing another character, but not “Kirk Prime.” Maybe he can play new Kirk’s grandfather (George’s father), Tiberius. :)
NO! THIS CHARACTER WAS KILLED-OFF IN GENERATIONS DO NOT BRING HIM BACK! IT WOULD BE CATERING TO A BIG MAN (READ OVERWEIGHT) WITH AN EVEN BIGGER EGO….
OH man, So many ways you could bring Shat back. And after seeing his range on Boston Legal, I’d love to see emmy winning Shat dig into some superb writing under JJ’s fantastic direction. And the best part is the creativity involved in making it happen. SO many doubting Thomases out there love rain on the thought that it can’t be done. I prefer to look at how these fantastic writers and JJ would creatively weave a story that would and could organically unfold naturally, where Shat’s presence fits like a glove.
It IS possible. Naturally, the Shat bashers will poo-poo the idea. But that’s just their nature. lol. Whether or not he should be in it all depends on the story. Simple as that. If they can tell that tale, and I have every reason to believe that they can, I say bring it on!
OH
MY
GOD
PLEASE, NO SHATNER. For heaven’s sake, no Shatner, no Khan. Are we all living in the past? Are we frightened of shiny new things?
NO!
Bring on new stories, new adventures, and boldy go where no man has gone before.
Agree with you Wes. W., #11. Max is a fool. Star Trek is not dead. It never died.
This is too easy. They should stick with Orci’s original idea for Shatner in the first film, just revise it a bit.
Perhaps, Spock Prime is getting nostalgic about his old friend, watching young spock and young kirk run around the galaxy together. So he pulls out the video Kirk (Shatner) sent him right before he left for Romulus. Same thing. This way A. Shatner is in the movie; B. Shatner never died in the prime timeline C. Wouldnt confuse anyone.
Sounds good to me.
170
No one is asking for Star Trek starring William Shatner. I fail to see why a 1-2 minute scene with Shatner in it would bother and ruin the experience for you. I think thats a bit silly.
I too think its not yet time for Khan. If they want to do a Khan story, maybe save it for a 3rd movie. I dont know that you really want to remake the best trek film of all time (still the best, IMO).
168
That excuse to keep Shatner out of the movie isnt valid anymore. We are no longer in the prime timeline. Pine’s Kirk is alive, and there is nothing to say he didnt live past Generations.
#168
…seems the letters on you keyboard are the biggest of them all… :D
Alright, let me pose the question like this, one Trekkie to another.
Do we love the character of Kirk, or the guy who played him? For me, it’s the characters, not the actors that make the part. James Bond is a case in point.
Shatner is 80, he’s fat (no offence Bill, I’m none too lithe), he’s a caricature of himself!
I Honestly doubt if anyone will read this far down, but if O & K or JJ are reading this far “HI”
I have an idea, how to bring back Kirk, and appease that element of fandom, but NOT have it impact the movie.
go watch who farmed rodger rabbit ;)
it starts as a cartoon, I remember thinking at the time “wow, cool, they are showing a cartoon before the main feature like they used to” it turns out that its not quite a cartoon in that film.. so, heres my idea.
get some 10-15 mins worth of script for shatner to be in, like the end of an episode/adventure that the new crew are having WITH Shatner (and Nimoy) in it,they laugh or whatever like at the end in TOS etc., then “stardate some time later, these are to voyages of..” we start a new adventure, with the new crew and don’t hear from Shat ever again, because we need to move on.
kinda the way a number of the James bond films start too with Bond finnishing off a story as we enter the new film.
or at LEAST shoot it for one of the extras on the DVD/BD, with the option of inserting it into the main feature.
it couldn’t hurt the budget THAT much if Shatner REALLY wants to do it one last time.
oh yeah, one last request/ suggestion please no returning characters from the old films or ANY of the series, please, pretty please :)
Thanx
Shatner let the team behind Generations (who have no respect for TOS) kill off his character in a less than heroic way and NOW he wants to be back in a movie after Nimoy pulled it off beautifully? C’mon, sorry but that ship has sailed. If he was going to be in a movie, it would have been this one but if he’s in the next, its just not going to work for me (and some other fans as it appears). I mean, the average joe in the theater might even yell out “Priceline Negotiator!” when he comes on screen. I say that to make this point: Shatner has made people take his version of Kirk less seriously than they should. (Remember Generations? A lot of fans and media said he didnt even LOOK like the Kirk they had grown up loving) Im sorry but I just dont take him seriously enough and I dont want this next film to be a fanboy’s wet dream. We need to all aim high i.e. The Dark Knight, Empire Strikes Back, etc… Oh and by the way, with Nimoy’s successful scenes in the movie, and Shat not being in it, could we call this cosmic karma for those “get a life” remarks to the people who loved and supported him since the shows begining? Just wondering…
Please, please, no Shatner in the sequel. I grew up with Shatner’s Kirk, and no one will ever play Kirk the way he did.
However, the torch has now been passed. It’s time to let the new crew forge ahead with their new adventures. It’s time for some new missions (although I love the little tidbits from previous Trek such as were all throughout STXI, more please). It’s time to let the past be the past and move Star Trek into the future as a healthy franchise. STXI was a great start, now let’s move forward, not backwards.
My only suggestion for Star Trek XII: More Urban!
Shatner could be in the next film because the time line has changed. On the other hand, Shatner should not play Kirk. I just don’t know if it could work. Shatner has done well for himself as Denny Crane. As for the books, I prefer Kirk being alive in the world of Books. I could see that happeing in the Alternate Universe where Kirk dies, but is brought back.
But for the next film, it would be far too soon. If you’re going to have Shatner appear in the next film, than you have to think about having other Trek Alumi as well. They could appear in the films with the new crew, but NOT as themselves. The problem with that though, is that the actors are ICONS and we see them AS THOSE CHARACTERS and it makes it difficult for other people to step into those roles. I think Shatner could have been placed in this first film. He could have done the role of young Kirk’s Uncle (not step father) and appeared not as a voice but as an image on the screen in the car. Or he could have played the role of George Kirk.
Even so, Shatner, he seems to want to play a larger than life role, it may not be enough for him. It seems William Shatner cannot let go of the Character of Kirk since he was the first to play that role for many years (and I can understand it). Placing him in any of the new films (if they are done) would be difficult and would take a well written script to do it and it would have to make sense for it to happen. Leonard Nimoy, we may see him again, but than again we may not. You must also understand that Spock knows that if he is with his younger self, he might be tempted to reveal events that may or may not happen. Spock can be in two places at once, but not together unless there was an absolute need for it to be that way.
It will be interesting to see these relationships unfold once more, this time in their early years. This literally is the maiden voyage of a NEW Enterprise (Not April’s Enterprise and not Pike’s). Perhaps we will see them on the SMALL screen as well as on the BIG. We can only hope.
It would be great to see Shatner in the next movie. But honestly, I don’t believe Abrams will do it. Given how Abrams and co. handled it this time, there’s really no reason to believe it is possible unless he actually announces Shatner is signed.
I would love it and to see as many of the original actors as possible while they can be used.
And for the record, I think Karl Urban was the best part of the movie. They wrote McCoy better than any character, and Urban’s performance nailed it.
I really hope to see more McCoy next time. And that’s NOT a knock on the other actors. I think all the actors were good, and the writing was good except for the actions of Spock Prime, the over-brilliance of Chekov (done to force him into the movie), and Scotty, who I think needs to really be treated differently in the next film. Scotty is SOOOOO much more than comic relief.
I think having Shatner come back would be a mistake now, much as I would love to see him appear. The new film, ironically for a story about an earlier era, is about Star Trek’s future. Leonard Nimoy’s Spock and William Shatner’s Kirk appearing in subsequent films would be handcuffing the new films to what went before. The next film really needs to be about the new cast only, with perhaps a cameo by Bruce Greenwood!
Maybe, since this is becoming an increasingly common practice, they could make a cartoon short as part of the publicity for the sequel with Shatner an Nimoy performing the voices. Even better, make a small-scale straight-to-DVD film starring the pair of them to tie in with the new movie!
Please…
I ABSOLUTELY LOVED THIS MOVIE…
Going forward now…
No Shatner in the next movie. No time-travel, no Khan, no redux of old shows, no uber-villians….. Go back to what Star Trek does best; look at our world today and the issues we’re facing and create an original, epic story with loads of character development, humor, and lots of action.
you think Craig Ferguson would have made a good Scotty?…Maybe he can play Scotty’s uncle in the 2nd movie!
Maybe Shatner can play Kirk’s crazy uncle that was cut from this movie.
Maybe Kal Penn could play Khan in the next movie…have a Harold and Kumar reunion!!!
#176 “Alright, let me pose the question like this, one Trekkie to another.
Do we love the character of Kirk, or the guy who played him? For me, it’s the characters, not the actors that make the part. James Bond is a case in point.”
I like Kirk BECAUSE I like the way Bill Shatner played him. Kirk was nothing but words on a page until Shat brought it to life. The character is WHO he is because of the traites Shatner brought to him. The writers developed and found the “voice” of Jim Kirk by watching BIll Shatner. Had Buddy Ebsen played the character, I dare say I wouldn’t have like him as much.
Chris Pine brought to the table the characteristics that Shatner brought to the table. But make no mistake, with the wrong actor it could have gone wrong. VERY wrong. It’s all about who is breathing life into those words and how.
#185, well put. As a huge Shatner fan myself…
There’s no way to make everyone agree on this subject, especially. Question is, can Shatner be placed into the movie in a believable and enjoyable way? With intelligent and carefully-crafted writing, I say, why not?
People that compare Pine and Shatner are wasting their time. There’s no way to compare the two, especially as to who played Kirk better. Shatner has been Kirk for over 40 years, made the character, shaped the character; Pine played him once – played him well, sure! But…once. C’mon.
…and to those with the low-blows to the man – ie, fat, old…..Shatner is 80. I dare ANY of you geeks to look that good at that age, let alone make it that long. You guys just have no class, and no respect.
“I would be delighted to be in it,” Shatner responds
Shatner responds, does anyone get that?
clearly he is being asked the question. what is he supposed to say. If he says no way then some will say he has sour grapes. if he replies as he did others bag the guy also.
He can’t win
#185
I respect your opinion, but I personally do not agree. Having read endless Trek books, containing far more words and far more characterisation than Shatner ever put on screen, then for me Kirk is in those words, that life. Don’t misunderstand me, I love watching Shatner in TOS and the movie (well some of the movies), but it’s always (for me) a guy playing a character.
I always identified more with Spock anyway.
I really just feel, now that the new time-line is in place, let’s move forward with that. I LOVE the movie (although hate the story to bits, oddly enough), and want to see where the CHARACTERS go next.
#185
- I like Kirk BECAUSE I like the way Bill Shatner played him. Kirk was nothing but words on a page until Shat brought it to life. The character is WHO he is because of the traites Shatner brought to him. The writers developed and found the “voice” of Jim Kirk by watching BIll Shatner. -
Well said – Kirk became Kirk with Shatner’s portrayal. If not for Shatner, nobody would know whether we love the character of Kirk or not, cause there wouldn’t be any shaped characteristics, traits, quirks, visual nature; there wouldn’t be any identity and personality at all. Kirk would be a faceless and voiceless name on a slip of paper.
#189
So… all the people in books written for hundreds of years before they may have been portrayed on screen, they had no character?
It does not require a physical performance to make a character.
Burn the world’s books if you disagree.
#190
Books:
To be read, imagining the protagonists
Characters from TV scripts:
To be watched, seeing the characters being shaped and brought to life
Apples, oranges, strawberries…:)
I apologize for posting it here, kind of off-topic, but considering the success of the new movie and the Countdown comic book mini-series, I thought that maybe a few of you would like to hear that IDW just announced STAR TREK: NERO, a new mini-series coming in August. Here is what they said about it:
“Written by Mike Johnson and Tim Jones, art and cover by David Messina.
From Star Trek writer/producers Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman and the creative team behind the prequel comic Star Trek: Countdown comes an all-new story set within the events of the film! Not an adaptation, this exclusive story follows the villainous Nero as he seeks to destroy the Federation. An essential chapter in the rebirth of Star Trek!”
So supposedly they will cover Nero’s doings during his 20+ years wait…
#192
Given that Amazon just cancelled my prequel comic and apparently there are no more, I have no hope of getting this either.
#191
I give up, but respectfully disagree
#186: Danpaine,
“…and to those with the low-blows to the man – ie, fat, old…..Shatner is 80. I dare ANY of you geeks to look that good at that age, let alone make it that long. You guys just have no class, and no respect.”
Shatner and Nimoy are the same age. However an old Spock work well because he is more of a thoughtful character, so being older means he is probably wiser and so. Kind of a Yoda of Star Trek…
Kirk on the other hand was always the action hero, and seeing he old and fat just doesn’t work for me. It isn’t Shatner’s fault, it is just the reality of the character. Just my 2 cents…
#194 – absolutely, no doubt there.
#193 – ucdom. Strange, my local comic book store still has plenty of them. Do not give up, that comic book is worth reading…
BTW, did you guys see that Countdown is currently #2 in the New York Times best seller list? Star Trek is hot again…
Shatner was the Original Kirk. That will never change. (Even though IMHO He was best as Denny Crane).
I think bringing Kirk Prime into the next movie could only be done if the entire purpose of the movie was to bring Shatner into it. That does not sound like a good thing to me. Besides, let’s not forget that there were 3 people in that relationship, and without DeForrest Kelley, that can never happen again.
I liked the new movie, and appreciated the preservation of the old timeline as well as the creation of the new one.
Perhaps eventually they could have Spock Prime die, and the last thing he sees is a vision of his old friend Jim saying “Welcome home old friend.”
#190 “So… all the people in books written for hundreds of years before they may have been portrayed on screen, they had no character?
”
Of course not. But naturally, the books written featuring James Kirk, were written after the fact and with the voice of William Shatner’s portrayal in mind. He wasn’t a literary presence, he was portrayed on a television show. The books base their universe off of that series and, likewise, the character of Kirk is based off of the performance of Bill Shatner on that series. And that’s as it should be.
True, anyone can perform as Jim Kirk. But as JJ well knew, the benchmark had been set over the past 40 years. Whoever reads the lines written for James Kirk, darn well better have the swagger, charm and humor of Bill Shatner or it would have been a disaster.
@#1 Max
Sorry re-hashing the first post some 190+ posts later, but I have to take issue. I don’t think Spock Prime was dumbed down at all. In fact, the softer, more balance, reflective and yet emotional Spock we see Nimoy play is in line with decades on Romulus and given his acceptance of his human half.
Given what would be for us multiple lifespans to wrestle with the call to logic on the one hand and the gravity of emotion on the other, with a wealth of unbelievable life experience behind him, I would expect a humble, understated elder-statesman more that I would expect a calculating machine-like intellect. And that is exactly what Nemoy delivers.
At the risk of sounding like a jerk, Max, I’m not sure you grasp the complexities of Spock if you truly expected anything other than what you got. Given the full scope of the source material, especially Reunion, I think the writers and Mr. Nimoy delivered in spades.
#1:
Thank God someone else agrees this film was a crapfest. “Dumbed down” is putting it lightly.
196:
opcode:
“BTW, did you guys see that Countdown is currently #2 in the New York Times best seller list? Star Trek is hot again…”
Just checked it. Can’t find it.
#154
My friend, you’re wasting your time defending someone that *wants* the insults. Max deliberately stirred the hornet’s nest, and if folks want to feed his need for a reaction, let them. I assure you that he’s enjoying every minute of it! :)
#201 – AJ,
Here:
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/graphic-books-best-seller-list-april-18/#more-9561
Scroll down a bit to the paperback list… :)
Actually I just noticed that the list is from April 18th. Anyway…
#201 – AJ,
I found a more up-to-date list, from May 16. Countdown is #3…
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/22/graphic-books-best-seller-list-may-16/?scp=1&sq=best%20seller%20list&st=cse
Oh and people, if you want ‘dumbed down’, go no further than ‘Let That Be Your Last Battlefield’ or ‘The Enemy Within’. TOS was full of ‘dumbed down’ concepts and ideas (heck, take a peek at the rewrites on Harlan’s COTEOF). I’m often amazed at the amount of revisionism that runs rampant when discussing exactly how ’smart’ TOS was. TOS was meant to entertain, first and foremost. Deep thoughts were secondary.
Moore is a crappy writer whose ego is even bigger than shatners.
BSG only last 4 years on a cable station- less anyone forgot that !
#1, #200.
I have to ask, what was so smart about Star Trek?
I know someone is going to say social commentary but come on, that was hardly a consistent element.
Are you saying it is dumb because they didn’t reverse any polarities on any sort of complexly-named fictional gadgets? If so, that isn’t smart, it is just lazy writing.
#1, This site does post negative comments. This place was loaded with them before the movie came out. As for negative comments after the movie came out, I think that the overwhelming consensus was that this movie was enjoyable and well-liked. I don’t think many find much to complain about – except for the recycled cries of it being dumbed-down from a select few.
Wow two more years of this LOL
There’s nothing that Kirk did in trek 2 that shatner couldn’t do still now. Get him on board. Nimoy was one of the best things about this film.
I didn’t care much for his Shatner but I thought Craig Ferguson’s rant leading up to the skit was hilarious!
#205 “TOS was meant to entertain, first and foremost. Deep thoughts were secondary.”
Amen. It’s great to have StarTrek that is fun again!
In the 1970’s, TOS fans didn’t care too much about the ‘messages’ of the different Trek episodes. Racial and sexual integration were considered normal on the show, and THAT was the high-flying message. It was not spoon-fed to the audience by lots of talking. There were several good (and bad) eps that dealt with issues of the day, but what fans always came back for was the ‘Big 3,” of Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
The three together represented the internal workings of a human’s mind and soul, and the inner conflicts which lead us to make decisions.
I think TNG gave many young people the impression they were watching something ‘intellectual’ because of its English captain, and his reliance more on consensus than on his gut. But, still many of its best stories had no ‘commentary’ at all.
I didn’t read all the posts, just jumped in to add my two cents:
The next Trek movie needs to stand on its own without any stunt casting like Nimoy or Shatner. It’s a new world. Live in it. The new cast was amazing as the characters they were portraying.
Another freakin’ time travel story involving Kirk “prime” showing up would just be ridiculous.
Stop going “back to the well” and come up with a completely original Trek story involving our new, young crew. No Shat, no Nimoy, no Kahn, no Borg…OK, you get my drift.
Ferguson is the best talk show host, but his skits leave something to be desired.
#206- Moore’s decision to create a firm story-arc and write towards a definite end was a refreshing statement of artistic integrity. The BSG universe will still be explored by Caprica and, no doubt, other venues.
Let me also point out that Moor’e creation lasted a season longer than TOS and went out on Moore’s terms, not on the whims of the studio or network. By your standards, the Great Bird would be a hack because TOS only lasted three seasons and he lost almost all control over the third season.
Of course, we know that ol’ Gene was a genius and his creation was worth while- short run or no short run.
Also, you make it sound like having a show on cable is a negative. Once upon a time, that would have been true. Not so anymore. If you knew what you were talking about, you would know that NBC/Universal actually considered moving BSG to NBC because they knew BSG could help their ratings. In the end, leaving BSG on SciFi allowed them to push the envelope in ways not possible on public air waves.
In other words, having a show on cable isn’t a liability at all. Imagine The Shield or The Sopranos on a network. It wouldn’t work. Cable is an equal if not superior platform for artistic expression and entertainment.
Every tenant of your case is flawed. Thus your argument has no merit on any level.
#65: “As for sequels, how many do you think this crew will hang around? Any more than three will be a miracle. Unless they all end up having the same kind of careers the original crew had, the new crew wont want to play spacemen every 2/3 years for the rest of their lives.”
Well then maybe the “Star Trek” franchise becomes something akin to the James Bond 007 venue and we have new cast members along the way… but then we’d have new over-protective canonistas demanding a say so in whether they’d be good for the role or not.
Oh, the horror, the horror of it all.
“I have to ask, what was so smart about Star Trek?”
How about the fact that it almost invariably had antagonists rather than villains?
(The purpose of a villain is to be evil until blown up, and no other outcome is permissible. Imagine TWOK suddenly shifting gears back to TOS thinking in the last reel–they capture Khan, use the Genesis device to regenerate Ceti Alpha V, and drop him off in paradise again. Imagine a version of TUC where they capture Chang in the transporter pattern buffer and hand him over to the KHC for trial. And so on. The masses would never go for it. They will accept only DIE HARD IN SPACE.)
“Star Trek dead and gone?! Have you checked the box office status for this weekend?”
WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT made about $600M (inflation-adjusted) while bearing no resemblance to its source material.
#1—”…now watch this post get deleted because only positive posts are allowed on this website.”
So much for that nonsense.
216 posts later….and it’s still here. Whaddaya know?
#6 MIKE TEN:
I think now Kirk no longer has to suffer the fate he did in Generations… kirk might now live longer.. or they can just get old kirk from before the whole nexus Enterprise-b bit…..
who knows . they know have FULL creative access to anything in the star trek universe because on ST09!!!!
i love it! it is soo mind blowing!
how powerful
this new movie is a 10! for sure! i feel sorry for those who ahvent watched it yet..
WHY SHATNER? WHY!!! ? GO WATCH THE DAMN MOVIE!!! lol
My god man!
-loovee Urban!!!!
#212, same thoughts from me exactly, the appearance of Shat would require another time travel plot, and we all are sick of those already. They need to come with something totally new, they’ve introduced a great new cast, so use it. As much as I liked Shat, he’s doing trek is OVER. What’s done is done.
Pine/Kirk meets his future self and goes, “WHAT the HELL happened to me???!!!”
Seriously JJ- This may be the LAST chance ever to get Shat and Nimoy back together.
If you don’t, you will probably regret it forever.
Don’t blow it. (And pray they both stay healthy.)
#37—”There are a lot of people who grew up watching William Shatner as James T. Kirk and want to see him play the role one more time.”
…and just as many people who grew up watching William Shatner as James T. Kirk who are perfectly fine with not seeing him in that role again.
If they are done with time travel, as Lindelof suggested, and Abrams has no desire to revisit the idea of “The Nexus” (as he has also indicated), Shatner’s appearance as Kirk makes no sense.
(Unless we are revisiting “The Deadly Years”…lol)
Firstly — how can anyone say anything negative about this movie, yes we can nitpick a few items here and there — but this was ONE OUTSTANDING MOVIE!!! I totally loved it and each of the cast-members did justice to each of their roles. Regarding Shatner, Chris Pine, said it best “Shatner will always be Kirk and Kirk will always be Shatner”. There is no bigger Shatner fan than me. Having said that, especially with the wild success of this movie — it is time to MOVE ON!!! Please no gimmicks with the Nexus, Time Travel (and I LOVE Time Travel), Hologram, etc. Please NO SHATNER!!! Let this new brilliant cast stand on its own!!!
No Shatner. Please.
I have to say, before I saw the film I was all for getting Shatner in and having Kirk un-Nexused.
However, after I’ve seen it, I just think they earned the right to go and do the next one without having to YET AGAIN pay homage to the old crew.
What they did with Nimoy was great, really gave them them that gravitas and showed respect, but I think they earned the right to do a film all on their own now.
I don’t want an episode writ large, we got that with the Motion Picture and Insurrection thanks very much. Let them go do something epic without having to be chained to the Shat.
They have already unwritten the Nexus when you get right down to it. So in the new timeline, it may not happen after all. Now how warm and fuzzy is that? :)
#144: ” because you always knew he would be alright in the end. In a sense, the end of each TOS episode was a sort of reset, with each week a new set of circumstances to be dealt with and then put behind them at the end as if it didn’t happen…”
Isn’ that the case with ALL series television?
#225-
Prior to the late 90s, yeah, I’d say so. Now-a-days, with long arcs, anti-heors, and dark twists and turns, not so much.
See Breaking Bad for an example.
#174 – sure, let’s bring in Shatner Kirk from the alternate-reality (aka Abramsverse) 2293 (for instance) into, let’s say 2260, and create an alternate-alternate-reality this way (since, as established by Orci time travel creates alternate reality).
That shouldn’t be confusing to ANYONE, it will be completely “ORGANIC”, let’s TOTALLY DO IT
Hey, I love the Shat as much as anyone but his day is done.Putting him in a sequel would just make it seem stupid and would convince everyone who though Trek had been reinvigorated that it hasn’t. The writers, cast and crew have really earned the right to go on without any of the original cast now. And as for #1 Trek is NOT dead, it is very much alive and kicking thanks only to this movie. Get a life!!!
Um, Star trek followed pattern with TMP of course, but also ST5 (yea i know many of you dont like it.. but it was a NEW life form),, ST insurrection were new life forms..
even the probe in voyage home was a new life form (btw the book follow up to voyage home called “the probe” gives a great backstory on that device.).
everyone should relax and just remember their personal fav parts of trek… and not discuss the parts they dont like.
227
Its called a flash forward scene. Really isnt that complicated.
No offense to anyone in particular, and with no intent to flame…
Does anyone here actually read the stories posted to Trekmovie.com? (I won’t go into the area of reading comprehension.)
Does anyone actually ever click on an off-site link to additional content?
If you do, perhaps you came across the story where the writers of the film talked about their idea for including Kirk in the film. Perhaps you watched the MTV interview with the writers who go into detail about their concept for having Shatner in the film.
Then you would know that Shatner could be in the film quite easily without violating any canon. (It is called a pre-recorded message for Spock.) Then you would know that the writing team and producers were at odds over how effective this could/would be and how it appears one of the writers really wanted it to happen but the other not so much.
Then you would be able to discuss the merits of whether or not Shatner should be in the film, without having to waste time on arguments about canon and time lines and crazy ideas involving the Nexus.
Maybe JJ could bring Shat where he comes out of the Nexus long enough to just beat the ever-living crap out of Rick Berman for having killed him off in he first place….
And by the way, I LOVE Khan, but no…please STAY AWAY from that story in the next film. Trek has other baddies to pick from and I just dont think it would be smart to put yourself in a position to be compared to STII. But Orci and crew proved to be a smart team so I dont have any worries there. We have great films in the Trek vault, lets add to that, not try to re-do them.
#216
“I have to ask, what was so smart about Star Trek?”
“How about the fact that it almost invariably had antagonists rather than villains?”
Villians ARE antagonists, not all antagonists are villians.
I was asking what was so smart about Star Trek in response to #1 and #200 who comment that the new movie is dumbed-down. Clearly they feel that classic trek has something this new movie does not. Since the new movie has an antagonist, who might also be considered a villian, your answer doesn’t really help.
Shatner, if included, should play the role of a holographic family movie of Tiberius Kirk that Jim watches at some point, maybe sent in a “letter” from home by Mom that was originally sent to George when he was first assigned to the Kelvin. Maybe some words of wisdom or something along those lines…
Or, maybe the movie series could just move on, and live off of it’s own story and universe. I love The Shat and all, but it will seem contrived at best if he plays James T. Kirk again.
I think those of you are so against Shatner being in the sequel are going just a little overboard. No one (I think) wants a Trek movie based on Shatner.
However, I fail to understand why it would bother some of you SOOOO MUCH if he was in a scene for 1-2 minutes?!? This would ruin a film over 2 hours in length?!?!
Without giving it ANY thought, they could:
A. Do a flash forward scene (since Kirk CAN live to be older in the Abramsverse)
B. Revise Orci’s original idea ( Have Prime Spock show/watch an old holographic video of his old friend, played by Shatner).
Now, if you want to go on with NO ONE from the prime universe (Spock or Kirk), then I do understand the whole move on attitude. BUT I STILL FAIL TO BELIEVE A ONE MINUTE SCENE COULD MAKE YOU HATE A MOVIE YOU WOULD OTHERWISE HAVE LOVED?!?!
So, if the Shatner scene was in this movie as written by Orci, would that have changed all your minds? Would this movie have gone from great reviews to bad due to that 30 second written scene?!?!
Sorry for the rant, but most of you are going overboard. As I have said this was an OUTSTANDING movie and the next one will likely be outstand as well, with OR without Shatner!!
Sorry folks, the most emotional death in Star Trek was Spock in TWOK. Not even close.
I liked this movie. Knowing it’s in an alternate universe alleves a lot of problems in it for me. The fact that Prime Spock exists in this alternate universe is proof the original universe happened.
What about those of us who prefer Kirk’s original backstory? The U.S.S. Enterpise being built in space above San Francicso (it was still never explained in the movie why it was built in Iowa), Kirk earning his way up through the ranks, planet Vulcan existing, 40 years of Trek history. What about us?
I still contend Star Trek movie could have been made by honoring canon and what came before. This movie wasn’t successful because they changed Kirk’s backstory, or that they destroyed Vulcan, or that Chekov was an officer before Kirk. It is successful because it was filmed in a high octane fashion, had great special effects, had great nostalgic moments from the original.
#211 – AJ,
I said the same thing a few days ago but people here didn’t seem to agree with me in that occasion.
I said that most of the best TOS episodes didn’t have any relevant “message” on them, like “Balance of Terror”, “Trouble with Tribbles” and “Amok Time”, just to list a few. People then argued that Balance of Terror was about racism or something like that, which I still don’t agree. That wasn’t the point of the episode, the whole “Spock is a Romulan” thing was just for dramatic purpose and I don’t see the producers of the show using that as a way to seriously discuss racism. Then someone told me that Amok Time was about friendship, but then I would say that almost all TOS episodes were about friendship. Come on, I saw a couple of episodes of Land of Lost yesterday I would also say that they were about family and friendship, so what…
I saw the interview with the writers and they discussed the scene in which they almost included Shatner. As a fan who long opposed Shatner in this film, the scene sounded very cool and I think it would’ve worked.
SPOILER ALERT (is there really anyone here who hasn’t seen it yet??)
For those who didn’t see it, the video is posted here. IIRC, the scene was near the end when the two Spocks meet. Younger Spock is skeptical about what elder Spock is saying, especially how he and Kirk will become great friends and do many great things together. So, the older Spock plays a recording that old Kirk made as a goodbye when Spock was leaving for Romulus to begin reunification and Kirk was retiring (sometime before TNG’s Unification episode). The audio of Old Kirk’s would continue as a voiceover as young Kirk is at Starfleet Academy receiving his commission as captain at the end.
As much as this sounds like it could’ve worked, I don’t want Shatner in any sequels. Nimoy? Yes.
Shatner does not belong in the new film. My current g/f who hated Trek, but now loves it thanks to the new movie would have not seen the movie if Shatner was in it. He’s done!
If you read Th’ Shat’s book ‘Star Trek: Movie Memories’ which was published in ‘94, Shatner expressed his wholehearted enthusiasm to close out his connection to the Kirk character once he heard they were killing him off. He goes on and on about how he felt it was finally time to say goodbye to James T. Kirk.
A year later, he writes ‘The Return’ along with the Garfield-Stevenses! Many more books followed as Kirk Prime 2.0 ws gallivanting around the galaxy, hobknobbin’ with Spock Prime, McCoy, Scotty, Uhura, Picard and co. in the 24th Century. C’mon now….
IF they had to bring back THE Kirk [or a version of him] to the Trek U, I’d prefer it if they brought him back in the 2387+ era to interact with Orci and Kurtzman’s post ‘Countdown’ versions of Captain Data, Ambassador Picard, General Worf, etc. And also, have him be the rugged, youthful Kirk of TOS (heck, why not?).
Why not have Shatner cameo as Cyrano Jones in the Trek sequel? Perhaps his hairpiece could be a tribble in disguise, enabling him to control tribbles; tribbles that can combine to form one ginormous gestalt tribble ala the animated series episode and/or a furry Devastator or Voltron.
Pehaps the next movie should be a galactic pandemic of tribble flu….
anyone else having Deja-Vu?
Bob,
Tell me you have an idea. I understand you won’t say what it is, but please say you have a workable idea.
Say what you will about him but one thing is clear, The Shat is a lightning rod of controversy. :)
Every time a major bit with Shatner comes up on this site it leads to hundreds of comments.
Fascinating.
#243
Yeah, we’re in a time warp we can’t escape unless…:)
#230 – I think it’s actually called a “forced cameo”
#243 – boborci, please: no Shatner. Dare I even say: no Nimoy (even though I loved his performance in ST XI)
The new Trek has to stand on ITS OWN, without supporting TOS cameos.
I still don’t buy it that we didn’t see Shatner in the new film because JJ thought it wouldn’t work. Even if it had been just a voiceover in the end, I believe it would have been a win-win situation, don’t you think? Fans would have loved and non-fans wouldn’t have cared much, so in the end everybody would be happy.
But something just doesn’t sound right about this whole story at all. The writers/producers said that when they contacted Nimoy they were afraid that he could say no, because he was vital to the story. So I understand that they had a story outline when they contacted him. In this case didn’t they have an outline when they contacted Shatner? Why bother contacting Shatner just to say something like, “you see, we are going to have a new Star Trek film, how do you feel about that?”, or then, “yeah, we would love to have you part of it, we just need to figure out a way to include you that feels organic…”
You see, just doesn’t sound right to me.
IMHO Shatner isn’t in this movie because either he refused to make a cameo, demanding a bigger part than they were willing to give him, or because he asked too much money for a 2 minutes scene/voiceover. Once he realized that his plan was just not going to work, he tried to use the fans to publically pressure the producers to put him in the movie, thus accepting his terms.
All speculation, no facts, I agree. But I still think that was what really happened…
I believe that one day, perhaps in 10 years, Bob Orci will tell us the truth… ;)
248 – Jean Luc:
Don’t be silly. The next movie doesn’t HAVE to avoid Shatner. It doesn’t HAVE to include Shatner. It can stand on its own either way.
#243…oh yeah…either that or it’s 2007 again.
Want more controversy? Put another TOS original in the movie that isn’t Shatner…that’ll get things going. But in all honestly, I don’t care who’s in the new movie (as long we’ve got the main cast returning), as long as it’s even remotely close to the last one. If Shatner will be Kirk in TrekXII, the Enterprise better be pulled into the nexus and come out with the Enterprise-B or else I just don’t see how it works, unless SpockPrime has a certain video recording…anything else (or probably even this) would seem a little “out there”, but hey, it’s Star Trek…we’re all about “Out There…”
I love Shatner’s Kirk, and that’s precisely why I don’t want him to appear in any new movies. My preference is to remember him as a vital young man who commanded the center of the action. Not a footnote shoehorned into a story for old time’s sake.
Shatner’s work is done, and a fine job it was!
well, about the nexus idea….same story as the tom paris thing from voyager and the guardian of forever from TOS…it’s about paying royalties to the writers of generations and that will most likely be avoided to save money. I didnt like the 2009 movie so much at first, but it grew on me alot when i saw it the second time with my son. I still hate the bridge (IBridge)
Good to see ShatnerWatch 2011 in full swing three weeks into TrekXI. As…enjoyable…as ShatWatch ‘09 was, I think we’ve got a long 2 years ahead if this is fueling the TrekMovie fire right now, though it is a slow
news day. Shatner or no Shatner, TrekXII should have some mystery and actual space exploration of the unknown…now thats some good Star Trek…oh and I’d really like to get a “He’s dead, Jim.” out of Urban in the next one. That’s my Star Trek wishlist.
Max must be confusing this movie with “The Voyage Home”. That was the crap fest movie where not only Spock, but EVERYONE was dumbed down.
252,
I guess you skipped Generations?
For the record I think 250 hits the nail on the head here. The rest of you seem to be arguing from extremes.
Just my two cents — but I think Shatner stopped playing Kirk and started playing himself (and didn’t seem to see the difference, although maybe he did and it was a calculated decision) around Star Trek IV and had lost Kirk entirely by Generations. Suddenly Kirk loved horses and Great Danes and much, much younger women — as Shatner does…
A ‘The Deadly Years’ sequel of sorts was done by New Voyages with Walter Koenig.
This will likely be called Shatner-hating, and I loved the guy’s Kirk, but I think Shatner would be miscast as an older James T. Kirk now. They’re ACTORS… they read other peoples lines and do what they’re asked. But who knows, his 3rd season Kirk was pretty Shatnery too, but he bounced back for TMP, the original cut of II and III (and arguably in VI) where he mostly underplayed the character, as he did in the first few TOS episodes.
That was always my favourite Kirk.
So Shatner in the sequel would be a distraction and nothing more. I loved that Nimoy was in this — but his scenes definately took me out of the story (How’s he aging? Who’s his denturist? Is he on Fringe in three weeks? Wow, his and Quinto’s eyes seem to be different colors?)
Shatner’s a master self-promoter (I’ve known folks who’ve worked with him… and his tongue in cheek doesn’t always translate) and interviewers seem to be constantly asking him this question — to stir up a feud — so of course he’s going to keep answering. I would.
And it’s exactly not like he needs the work or the exposure.
So yes. Please. No Khan. No Shatner. A villain or villains who aren’t the center of the plot. Make Klingons and Romulans interesting again (Sorry, TNG onwards). Very careful thought of introducing any other TOS guest characters. No cameos.
257: Yeah, let’s not discuss anything.
I don’t think thats gonna happen anytime soon. There have been negative posts before. it should be below you to provoke in such a obvious way.
keep smiling and keep posting. :D
243–I hope it’s handled better this time–either way.
#243 “Sssssssspock!”
By the way. I’m all for Nimoy coming back. Totally interesting character possibilities.
Or maybe, on second thought, Shatner as a glowing visage next to Yoda and Hayden Christenson.
256. John James
No, I didn’t skip Generations. While IMHO, it was one film too many for Shatner’s Kirk he at least played a significant role in moving the plot forward, such as it was. A footnote like we’re discussing here is more of a disservice than the dubious end he was granted.
The fate of characters like Kirk is best left unknown.
sorry, christensen.
225. MC1 Doug
I’d agree with you that there was a time when such occurrences were much more prevalent on television. However, I would say that aspect of storytelling on television is changing somewhat. TOS never have a recurring storyline, events tended to be contained within their own episodes, background references were rather sketchy and seemed fit for the purposes of a particular episode. That style of storytelling, especially in genre TV, is starting to fall by the wayside. Now, everything that happens on such shows seems to have a greater significance in the scheme of things, and show runners are more willing to take chances with their characters.
Although, if I can go back to my post #144, my thing is that after seeing this movie, I cared about Kirk in a way I hadn’t before. Maybe because, under the Big Three, Kirk was the character I related to the least. That’s all.
Buried here past the 260’s, but just was thinking of the romulan commander’s line: “in another reality, I could have called you friend.” Well, we have another reality now, don’t we?
#156: I never said you weren’t. Maybe your comments would make more sense if you actually paused to _read_ the post you’re responding to. If you have difficulty reading it, have a smarter friend read it slowly aloud for you, explaining what the words mean.
Shatner could have had his part in this one, but he didn’t want a cameo. So fine, he had his chance. Let’s move on without him. It’s not about the older Kirk and Spock anymore; it’s the new younger versions.
In no way does older Kirk need to come back to create any drama in the tales to be told. In fact, just having Shatner in a new movie would preclude it, as presumably the purpose of him being in it would be to bring back Kirk. That’s a story for a TV movie, not a feature film.
Besides, Kirk’s alive again and he’s now 28 years old in this version. I find that refreshing.
#1 No shatner in any new trek movie – Craig Ferguson would do a better shatner. Next everyone will want Wil Wheaton also.
#2 Ron Moore sux – BSG was cancelled not because he wanted to finish it.
#3 No more cameos of any of the old trek actors. Next movie should be bigger and better (trek version of TDK)
#4 Go see this movie over and over.
#176: “Do we love the character of Kirk, or the guy who played him?”
For my own part, neither. I see Kirk as critical to Star Trek, but I’ve never loved the character. I love McCoy (both incarnations); I love Spock Prime; I love Sulu and Chekov and Scotty and Uhura (both incarnations of each) … but I’ve never loved Kirk. But I do see him as necessary … Spock is the brain and McCoy is the heart, and they need someone to steer straight.
“For me, it’s the characters, not the actors that make the part. James Bond is a case in point.
Shatner is 80, he’s fat (no offence Bill, I’m none too lithe), he’s a caricature of himself!”
Arguably, the new Kirk is also a caricature of Kirk.
#270- you are just flat out wrong. Moore and crew always wrote BSG to have an ending. At most, they could have squeezed a 5th season.
Let me ask you this: if NBC/Universal pulled the plug on BSG because they think it and Moore both suck, why are we getting a BSG telemovie and another BSG-universe series in Caprica?
Check your facts before you post.
#271
You know I always loved Picard, Data and Spock. I guess I just identify with emotionally introverted types…. I cannot think why…. ;p
Whatever decision they make, I hope it is defined by the story the want to tell, and that it enhances as and doesn’t take away from that story. I also hope that the next story has more “thinking” time in it. I agree that this movie is a little dumbed down, but in order to do what they wanted in the time they were allotted, I think they performed adequately. The purpose of this story was not to make everyone think so much, but to connect, or re-connect, with these characters, and establish a relationship with them. It was more of a movie about interpersonal relationships and character introduction/development (though I would’ve liked to have seen the young kirk and spock portions that they apparently cut). If the next movie is 100% action and is comparably paced (without reason), I will probably enjoy it much less. I think there were a couple of good thinking moments in this film, though no one was given time to actually consider them (the impact of not having a father, Spock’s new relationship with his, etc.).
We’ll see. To take anything off the table now (even shatner–would’ve liked to have seen the scene they had for him in the movie; the voice-over–as long as it makes real sense) would be a little premature, I think, especially when we’ve been shown that putting more things on the table can result in a pretty good movie.
Meh.
My opinion.
-P
26 et al…
I’m an old guy. Having cleared that up, we all really do need to move on from the old guys. Shat would be 80 years old by the time the next movie lenses- they could blow the whole special fx budget on making him look credible- or even alive.
The new cast has been accepted in the main. Let’s go forward, not back.
273.
Word.
-P
#272 Moore, Berman, Braga – all but kill trek
you must be moore himself, why don’t you try to make some decent tv for once.
BSG sux eggs for the most part…..
Wow, fred. Your grasp of logic and rhetoric is astounding. I bow in the presence of an argument-making master. You should consider becoming a lawyer or running for political office. You’d defiantly rock the house. Really. A wordsmith like you can go far in this world.
They should redo the classic Trek Episode Court Martial for the next movie. Shatner could play the young Kirk’s lawyer – Denny Crane!
i just have to weigh in on the idea of working Shatner into the next movie –
honestly, the guy has become a joke in the entertainment world and in the media – he’s a great comedic entertainer at this point, but he has moved on from Trek and we should move on from him – it would just erode the credibility of the new movie to try to work him into the movie – it would come off as such a gimmick that would make the movie seem too silly
(i contrast this with Nimoy, who has remained a high integrity figure, both in appearance and demeanor, and he was a great fit for this film!)
“Given that Amazon just cancelled my prequel comic and apparently there are no more, I have no hope of getting this either.’
No more? I saw plenty of copies yesterday at Barnes & Noble.
#281
Tell Amazon.co.uk !!!!!
No wonder Bill uttered the infamous SNL line.
The shatman rules!
He can easily pull it off just like Nimoy did.
Whew – what a thread! One thing you can always count on here at trekmovie is a raging William Shatner debate!
Back before ST’09 was released, I had hoped that Abrams, Orci and company would find a way to work him in. Having now seen the movie, I can better understand how there wasn’t much of a role for him, given the plot. I do think the recorded message scene that Bob Orci described would have made a great film just a little bit better and perhaps a touch more poignant, but it omitting that scene certainly didn’t hurt the final product in any measurable way.
So now, the debate has flared up again. This time, I find that my opinion is remarkably… unchanged. Casting Shatner will neither make nor break the next film. Casting him poorly, certainly could, but then major script problems can ruin a movie faster than any cast ever could. In the end, I’d love to see Shatner as Kirk again – I grew up watching the guy – but only if it makes sense and serves the interest of the story.
There are a few ways they could work him without resorting to time-travel (ugh) or the stupid Nexus (double ugh), some of which have been mentioned here. I believe it is possible. I also believe it’s probably pretty unlikely. I concur with Opcode’s comment @ 249; there does seem to be some missing info from the equation and if Shatner tried some behind the scenes power-play, it may be unlikely that he’ll ever work for this production team.
I would like to point out to some of the more obtuse individuals posting here that Shatner answers questions when reporters put them to him. Often, when Shatner or anyone is quoted, the question is omitted if the answer makes sense without hearing the question. So they can ask him, point-blank “There is talk of a sequel, will you be in it?” His reply, “I would be delighted to be in it”, turns into the headline: Shatner Wants To Be In Star Trek Sequel. The headline is accurate, but lots of people seem to be inferring that this is some kind of big Shatner-orchestrated effort to squeeze himself in, when all he really did was answer the question, and in a way greatly similar to my own; indeed, who would NOT want to be in the next Star Trek Movie?
I know that there is lingering bitterness over his decision to be a part of Generations (though that is somewhat unfathomable to me; Nimoy did the same thing to his character in WOK, but nobody told him he was an ass for wanting to do STIII). I agree that Generations was a lack-luster film, and I also agree that Shatner was very un-Kirk-like in that. But I don’t understand the vitriol. He’s an actor. He originated the role of Kirk, sometimes with great panache, other times he was cringe-worthy (To this day, I can’t watch Plato’s Stepchildren). But given a good script and good direction, I think he’d be an asset to any production he had a role in.
Anyway, that’s what I think. Flame on.
#283—-”He can easily pull it off just like Nimoy did.”
Two time travel movies in a row? No thanks.
Nimoy’s appearance in ST09 was great, but the novelty is gone now. The new cast has established themselves well in these roles. There is no reason for them not to stand upon their own feet in the sequel and beyond.
#284—”I know that there is lingering bitterness over his decision to be a part of Generations (though that is somewhat unfathomable to me; Nimoy did the same thing to his character in WOK, but nobody told him he was an ass for wanting to do STIII).”
I think the obvious difference (in the eyes of the bitter fans) is in the quality of the death scene in TWOK versus GEN, and in the fact that actors choose to either participate in projects or pass on them.
Please, no Shatner!! He had his time in the sun, let’s move on. Some of you seem to forget that when this current movie was in the early planning stages Shatner was mentioned in a cameo role. I believe his response was that he was NOT interested in doing a cameo role at all. He wanted more of a starring role, or nothing. Well, he got nothing.
Besides, those of you wanting to see Shatner play Kirk “just one more time” may not remember that we had that in STVI. That was intended to be the swan song of the original cast, and was treated as such. Then, in a misguided attempt to link the old crew with the TNG crew, we got yet another poorly written swan song for Shatner as Kirk in the dreadful Generations. You may remember that the whole “death scene” had to be re-written and re-shot after the fim had wrapped, at Shatners insistence and at great expense to the studio. It still sucked, lol! So how many swan songs for Shatner as Kirk do you want? How many times will you say “just one more time” ?
That being said, I’ll contradict myself slightly here, lol. It would only work if you could get Shatner to agree to do a 1-2 minute cameo ala the original script idea of a pre-recorded video or hologram message that Spock Prime views on his deathbed. Or, I actually like the idea of Shatner playing Kirk’s grandfather ( “you know Jimmy, I was a lot like you when I was younger, but…..”) Then Kirk learns later in the film that his grandfather has died. Both scenes should be short and sweet, and early in the movie, and clear the way for new adventures with the new cast only. Wipe the slate clean, respectfully, of both Nimoy and Shatner. That train has left the station. Just my two cents worth.
The only way I see shatner in next film is his big face on an asteriod that enterprise must blow up – eat you heart out ron moore.
Both Shatner and Nimoy have each now appeared in 7 Star Trek feature films, some good—some not so good.
There is a new cast in these roles now, the members of which are being almost universally praised for their fitness in the roles.
I would much rather see them stand on their own from this point. Sadly, I don’t think that Shatner has anything beneficial left to offer Star Trek—-beyond his own good wishes, anyway. Any unless the sequel’s story involves the Vulcan displacement storyline, I’m not sure that Nimoy does either.
I think it is time to move on. I have more than 90 hours of both of them on dvd.
thanks to Bob, JJ et al for a great movie.The cast was spot on and believeble as 10yr.younger versions of the group in TOS
Due to a combo of work,family stuff and vacation I didn’t seee the film until today(a 1:30pm show with 30 or so people)
As a fan from the from the early 70s I had some fears, but they were unfounded. Can’t wait for STXII
Man, that old guy is desperate.
NO, NO and NO!!! And this is coming from a TOS fan “of a certain age”. The new crew has established itself nicely. No need for Shatner (or even Nimoy) to make an appearance in the sequel.
I know I will face ridicule for this statement, but it is as simple as including the book where the Borg resurrect Kirk in the sequel, and somehow, he returns to the past to retrieve Spock Prime.
Just one question: Would the Borg resurrect Kirk as an old, chubby, buffoonish Negotiator? As I said earlier, that train has long left the station. Accept it and move on.
The guy is nearly 80, and has probably achieved more in life than you 294.. insults, aint really very nice.. about whoever.. they certainly aren’t needed about any guy of that age, the Shat or otherwise..
There is just not a way to include Shatner in this new series that wouldn’t be incredibly cheesy and forced. And if there’s one thing JJ has demonstrated is an ability to make a good Trek movie above pandering to the more unfortunate aspects of Trek fandom. I wouldn’t want to see Adam West as Uncle Batman with Christian Bale either. Or Roger Moore as Grandpa Bond with Daniel Craig.
I think the knocking, and the “oh you can’t do this” is one of the “more unfortunate aspects of Trek fandom”
#286 – “I think the obvious difference (in the eyes of the bitter fans) is in the quality of the death scene in TWOK versus GEN, and in the fact that actors choose to either participate in projects or pass on them.”
Agreed. TWOK did it exceptionally well, Generations, not so much. HArdly something to lay at the actor’s feet, though. At the beginning of a given production, there is no guarantee that the end result will be satisfactory. I remember reading that Spock’s death scene in TWOK changed several times during the course of scripting and shooting that film. Nimoy had no way to know that his character’s death would play well or badly. He was fortunate that it went quite well, but it was certainly not a foregone conclusion when he signed on. I agree that the idea of showing Kirk’s death AT ALL is a questionable notion – it definitely steals some of the character’s mystique. But, I don’t blame Shatner for not being sensitive to that. He didn’t grow up watching Kirk on TV. He just took what appeared to be (and likely, was) his last chance to play the character again and perhaps do something new with it.
#287 — “…another poorly written swan song for Shatner as Kirk in the dreadful Generations. You may remember that the whole “death scene” had to be re-written and re-shot after the fim had wrapped, at Shatners insistence and at great expense to the studio. ”
This is the first time I’ve heard that they re-shot AT SHATNER’S insistence. Not calling you a liar or anything, but can you tell me where you heard that?
I’m with those who are calling for an all new, never-been-done, never-been-seen Star Trek sequel, but for all those nay-sayers, never say never. There are some rather clever people doing Star Trek who, no doubt, are taking every option into account, including — as JJ said — the possibility of seeing Shatner in the sequel. If he’s in it, these guys are sharp enough to know what they are up against, and what they would have to do to make it not only reasonable, but necessary.
Everyone tried to “prepare” for Shatner’s appearance in the first film, since the film-makers couldn’t really talk about the film. Some claimed that he was in the film, in spite of all the denials. Some claimed the denials were a red-herring, and it would be a big surprise. The denial that Shatner was in the film was proof that he was in the film.
This same sort of teasing and tormenting will probably go on for the next two years, though nothing really new can be said about it, anyway.
My sentimentality makes me want to see Shatner as Kirk again. Is that a good reason to put him in the next film? I don’t think so…
If he does wind up in it, I’m sure there will be a damned good reason to tell that story.
#298
You would call me on that, lol.
It’s been too many years, and my memory fails me. But I do remember reports at the time that after seeing the first cut he thought the death wasn’t “heroic” enough and wanted a more “heroic” death for Kirk.
Jean Luc, of course we can discuss! I take it since your against “foced cameos” (and since you havnt seen the new movie since it hasnt been written yet, unless Bob is really, really fast) you dont know how forced the cameo would be! NOW, if your against ALL cameos (An older Archer seems like a no brainer?), then your just against all cameos.
But done right they can be a nice treat. Cmon, your name is JEAN LUC, would you be against a TNG cameo? Maybe an early version of Data we never saw?
But if your against them all then I think your throwing a lot of nice possibilities out the window!
You don’t have to have “Kirk Prime” travel back in time to be in the next movie. Just have the film end in the late 23rd century of their established time. That would be an easy way to have an older Kirk and Spock in the movie. Just have them at the end of the movie, and have a subtitle that says “40 years later”. Wouldn’t be hard to make a scene like that work, although in all honesty, I kind of hope they save that for a 3rd film. If JJ is smart though, he should film a scene with those two sooner rather than later.
Shatner was great as a young James T. Kirk. Even in the first few movies he pulled it off, but starting with The Voyage Home, something bad started to happen. Drama went out the window in favor of comedy. Each movie was more absurd and farcical than the last. Then Shatner’s Kirk gets killed off in the insanely bad Generations. Years go by and Shatner, outside of Trek, embraces a new chapter in his career playing a bufoonish clown in Boston Legal, commercials, etc. He makes a very nice living by, in effect, lampooning his own image.
Here is the critical part: I would suggest that if William Shatner had filmed Generations and then retired to his horse farm, not to be seen in public, the collective audience out there would be clamouring for his return to the screen as Kirk. But, no, we’ve been subjected to his overexposed posturing as a bloated clownish caricature of his former self. THAT is why the majority of people out there don’t want to see Shatner back in the next Trek movie. Perception is everything, and as far as accepting the Shat in a performance as Kirk again? Sorry, but that particular starship has sailed!
You people who are so excited about this film are Star Trek fans? Really? Star Trek?
Uhm……
Well i ve watched it.
It is far far worse than i feared. Star Trek is dead.
Uhm plot? No.
Uhm makes sense? No
Uhm character development? No
Uhm any sort of depth full acting or characterization in any way? No,except slightly from Quinto
there are too many specific terrible things for me to even begin to go into.
It is the biggest pile of steaming @#@$ possible. Far far worse actually than i feared. it is nothing, and i mean nothing but a brainless, busy, stupid, imbecilic summer roller coaster ride. I really and truly have no clue how an intelligent person could watch this and actually be moved in any way at all. None of it, and really if you think about it NONE of it makes any sense what so ever.
what mindless imbecilic drivel.
The new uniform shirts are Horrible, ill fitting, throw over things.
Music , like from a tv show or something. no theme at all really. just lame ass.
Who the $%%^& is nero? how did he get the biggest most powerful ship ever, that uh, has water on the floor?
Black hole, what?!?
No planet has any defense what so ever!!!!!!!!!???!!!!!!!!!! Against a ship with an f Drill!!!!??????????? that all you have to do is shoot the , uh, chain of the drill and break it. and neither earth or vulcan has any defense what so ever (ship, missile, laser anything!!!!) to possibly do that?!?!?
Scotty is on an ice planet with a retarded sidekick and kirk who is acting first officer is jettisoned of the ship with no hesitation to that same planet and old spock is there too?!? Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Time travel like snapping your fingers?!?!
Old spock is everywhere, just whenever?
Any time uhura feels like it, she just leaves the bridge and kisses spock?!?!? What ???!?!?
Checkov, the ridiculous sounding, jar jar binks, cringe inducing genius super cute boy? WHAT?!?!?
Im jim kirk, so, well, yeah im taking over now, ive been in star fleet academy for 3 whole years!!! Way less time than, uhm, every body else on the bridge, who are all better at there jobs and more experienced than me. Yay!!! Oh, but wait, Pike made him first officer…Oh but wait, nobody cared about that when spock jettison him off of the ship!!!! WHAT?!?!?
It just never stops…………..
I cant even begin to get into how bad the characters and acting is. Really. so ridiculous. truly. Even Nimoy is barely checked in. Quinto is the only one who comes anywhere close to having any depth at all. And Pike is good.
And any sense what so ever of actual military discipline or command or chain or respect or protocol. anywhere? at all?!? it is so bad i am amazed really.
it is just endless. really.
what a piece of nonsensical steaming, insulting nothing. Its like a paper bag. there is nothing nothing there.
Yes, by all means bring back Mr. Shatner back to Star Trek one last time.
Sheesh, and enough with the personal insults of the actor, please. Harry – where did you get the “majority of the people” factoid?
Guess I should make up a few myself. Say it on the Internet and it must be true.
Regards
304 – wtf? this sounds like a star wars fan who didn’t even see the movie
GET A LIFE
PS – shatner no more….
304. Michael
Wow. You leave me speechless. Next time you go see a movie, try enjoying it. Maybe then the end result will be much better.
I don’t know if anyone is reading this thread anymore, but I’d like to add an outsider’s perspective. As someone who had never seen the original Star Trek series, watched a little bit of Next Generation in elementary school, but held the general view that Star Trek as a whole was stale and nerdy (i.e. appealing to a small niche of people who are interested in space and robots for their own sake), I was not planning on seeing this movie. When I first heard about it, I thought it was a very bad idea, especially since it was attached to J.J. Abrams (good ideas, but they don’t always satisfy like they could) and the guys who wrote Transformers, which I really disliked. Add that to what I perceived as a cast hired for their pretty faces and cheap paychecks, and yet another studio trying to squeeze yet more pennies out of a rightfully-retired franchise when I felt the era of big comic book/sci-fi/superhero movies was just about played out. I hadn’t seen a thoroughly entertaining movie in probably 5-6 years and this was the last movie I thought would break that trend.
But boy did it. I loved it so much. I’ve seen it three times, and I don’t even remember the last time I did that. Before this I was seeing maybe 1-2 movies a year in theaters, total. It was even better on multiple viewings. How rare is that? I don’t know how they did this. I can’t even explain why it’s so entertaining. I just loved every single one of the characters, and there’s not a single moment where I was bored or taken out of the story or thinking something was dumb (even when, in retrospect, some stuff *was* kind of dumb… it just didn’t seem to affect my enjoyment at all). Good characters are most important to me, so it probably has a lot to do with casting and direction. And also tone. It was completely fun and funny, without undermining its heart.
Anyway, I actually started out this post to weigh in on Mr. Shatner’s interest in the sequel. To me, it seems like he’s a quirky, diva-ish actor who wants back into the Trek movies now because they’re popular. I could understand it more if he had seen the movie and decided his most famous role was in good hands, but obviously that’s not the case. Perhaps I should have more sympathy, or admiration for what he is to the Star Trek series, but being removed from it all, this is how he comes off to me. But more importantly, I would worry that a sequel whose story had to be molded around Old-Kirk’s inclusion would suffer creatively. I think it would be difficult to not make it feel gimmicky. I think they quite successfully avoided that with Leonard Nimoy in this movie, but they would be hard-pressed to do that again. In this movie, it felt like a nice bridge between the past and the future, a passing of the crown, and to go back to the past once again would mar that renewed, forward-looking feel, and the sense of closure for that era of Star Trek.
Whatever forces came together to make this movie so transporting, I hope those who made it have a better understanding of them than I do, so that they can keep it going into the sequel. I hope they understand that for this movie-goer, it’s not a dazzling action scene that really captivates me, though it’s certainly the icing on the cake; it’s what the people involved in the action mean to you. And I think that’s something that has to be re-earned in every subsequent movie.
Uh, Freddy?
I am certainly a star trek fan. For sure. And for my entire life.
and right, why bother to adress my specific point, which rally are only the tip of the iceburg. Lanse flare everywhere anyone!!?? :)
This new “Star Trek” is practically Star Wars, right down to the exact copy of the last scene. that is a big part of my point, and a big part of this movies problems. Star Wars(well reallyonly the first two) is quite great on it own. But this is Star Trek.
Boy oh boy. Me, “get a life”? funny, way funny.
I have a life, thats why a ridiculous mindless roller coaster nothing ride, that does nothing but sully what was once great, is not something that i need to aquiesse to , just because it is now, uh, back in the spot light and “popular” again. Bad is bad. and this movie is just bad.
go kiss a girl for the first time or somthig wont you?
#305 “majority of the people”
I was referring to all the opinions posted here which seem to weigh heavily toward NOT wanting Shatner in the next movie.
My weird theory? Shatner wasn’t in the 2009 film because the guys wanted to ’save’ him to be used in the next one. Just think of the draw of a 2011 film with both Shat and Nimoy, and maybe a couple other TOS crew reprising their roles. Actually, it would probably not add too much if the film steamrolls like this one did…
And just for fun’s sake, I remember when SW came out in ‘77, people were saying “this is nothing more than Star Trek in different clothes” and “this is a Trek episode, only two hours long and on the big screen.”
It’s all relative. Actually, I like “Hidden Fortress” much more than I liked Star Wars. Actually, I like “The Sinking of Japan” much more than 90% of the sci-fi flix currently on parade out of LowwyHood…
#307,
re #304
Some people don’t enjoy movies without tearing them apart.
T´POL could appear as a hologram.
Archer could appear as a hologram.
They are from the past.
But no Prime Kirk, after all SPOCK Prime was marooned without gadgets, like a holorecorder which could play Shatner as Kirk.
And Spock´s little ship from the future was destroyed as well.
I love Shatner, love his books, i have them all “Avenger” “Ashes of Eden” etc. even if we could accept his books as canon, he is trapped in the PRIME timeline.
I love Shatner and was more than a little miffed that he wasn’t in the new film- until I saw it! Now I’m clear. No Bill, No Stewart, No Nimoy. NO to any of the older stars being in the next film.
Lets give the new cast a chance to shine.
#310
What, 200 people from this board, aka “Out There”, don’t want Shatner in the movie?! Ah, ST will be doomed forever should they still put him in, Harry…:D
#307: “Next time you go see a movie, try enjoying it.”
It helps when the filmmakers do _their_ part too, you know.
I liked Star Trek 2009; I thought it was fun.
But I haven’t seen a single complaint among those who _didn’t_ like it that I couldn’t see the reason for. It’s very easy to see why some people would loathe it. It’s a fun film, but it is also lazy, cheap, over-convoluted, dumbed-down, noisy, shallow, and lacking in heroism, humanism, and determinism. Heck, even many of the “good” reviews say as much; it’s hard to find a film damned by so much faint praise. “It doesn’t make a lick of sense, but hoo-boy what a ride!” sums up at least a quarter of the critical response.
I went in “trying to enjoy it,” and enjoy it I did. It’s a fun thrill-ride of a popcorn rollicking romp-thing. And lookee here, it’s been branded “Star Trek” by those with a legal right to do so. Bonus.
Let me reiterate what I said on May 7. I am an old timer. I love Star Trek TOS and TNG. ANd I really liked this movie. And I thought that Pine, Quinto and especially Urban were first rate.
As to #1 and the few who have jumped on his bandwagpn, all I can do is offer the comment made several times over at Rottentomatoes: Welcome to the 5%.
I wouldn’t like to see any references to old episodes in the sequel simply based on that the events of the new movie started the Big E and crew into space roughly 3-5 years ealier that they were supposed to. Thats why Chekov is 17 and Pike’s E adventures never happened. Basically Kirk and crew are doing Pikes adventures. Kirk should be on the Farragut. So it would be several movies down the line before paths were to cross so to speak. So no rehashing of old episodes for the next movie please. As for The Shat not seeing the movie yet,YEA RIGHT. I’m sure he saw it the first day if not wayyyyyyyyy before it came out. As proud as I am of the Sales numbers I’m wondering how much it would have done if not for us UBERfans that have seen it 3-6 times already. That would really change the amount. Not that I’m complaining, just curious.
Wow. SO little confidence in the ability of Bob and Alex to craft a good tale that would include Shatner’s Kirk! Amazing, epecially, in light of the success of this movie. I, personally, have no doubt, that IF Shatner was to be included in the next film, that Bob and Alex, along with JJ’s input ,would treat the character with respect, creatively place him in the film and make a great imaginative, fun story to go with it.
Of course, the Shatner bashers will hear none of it. They are too busy hurling childish insults, dealing with petty jealousy issues, or still livid because the man stole one of George Takei’s lines in 1967, to be open to the idea. The sad fact is, IF he were in it and the movie won an academy award for best picture, they would still have an axe to grind. They simply don’t like the man they’ve never met…for whatever reason, and will never get behind his inclusion.
But rest assured that, if handled correctly, a LOT of people would welcome it, if not relish it, both old fans and new.
See, the problem with characters like “Michael” is not so much that he disliked the movie, but rather that his opinion is presented as THE absolute truth, THE final opinion, THE ultimate criticism…. shall I go on?
Millions of people have seen this movie, by now, and the vast majority have spoken. And we like the movie, warts and all. Many opinions. Not just one.
Any bidding wars over your screenplay, Michael, hm? Keepin that director’s chair nice and warm, hm?
without shatner in movie @$250 M, with him in it @ $75 M maybe. which on will the studio want.
319–I don’t think it’s so much lack of ABILITY but lack of desire. After how they handled Shatner in this movie, and how they falsely got people’s hopes up, I can’t believe a word they say about it. If Shatner actually is signed, THEN, and ONLY THEN, would I start to have faith.
The scene Orci talked about involving Shatner wasn’t all that good, but at the same time, it never got out of the writer’s room, and I really do think that they DO have the ability to do something should they seriously go for it.
I just don’t think that they will.
As for Michael who hated the movie, I don’t think he should be bashed. He has a right to hate the movie and express his opinion. Too often on boards like this one, people who dissent are treated poorly, or worse, banned, and that’s not right.
I’m one of the biggest Trek critics I know. It’s very hard to make me happy. And for me to not hate this movie, says something. But that doesn’t mean this movie was flawless. It was far from it.
THINGS THAT DIDN’T WORK FOR ME:
1. Erasing canon. I don’t care how many quantum physics theories Orci recites–in STAR TREK, while there are many universes, there is only one timeline. See City on the Edge or Yesterday’s Enterprise as two examples of that. This wasn’t a NEW universe created by Nero’s actions. This was the universe we followed being permanently altered by Nero’s actions. Could there be an alternate universe that works identical to the prime universe except Nero didn’t travel back in time? YES. Absolutely. While there is only one timeline, there are infinite universes. However, that’s not the SAME universe–the one we followed. I understand WHY they erased canon, but I didn’t like it. I also think that a movie dealing with the consequences to the future due to the absence of Vulcan would make a GREAT sequel idea. If they do that, and restore the canon universe, it would be a brilliant sequel. Plus, since the characters ALL exist in the prime universe, your third movie can feature them all anyway, so there’s nothing to lose except some set designs. Hell, some of the characters could even be killed valiantly restoring the prime timeline, where of course they’ll be ok.
2. Some of the changes they made were awful. The Spock/Uhura romance was just a bad idea. It felt thrown in there just to make a statement that things are different. It just didn’t work at all. It’s one of those things I really hope they simply ignore come the next movie.
3. Destroying Vulcan–same thing. It felt disrespectful to the decades that came before it. It felt like someone just trying to put his stamp on the movie, and it would be great to see this remedied in Trek 12.
4. Scotty and Chekov. While 5 out of the 7 characters were well written, I thought they really missed the boat here. I almost thought the movie might have been better had their roles been reversed and slightly rewritten. Some of the jokes may have been different, and Spock Prime’s revelation of Scotty’s theory would have been different, but it’s not like these writers couldn’t handle that. Scotty really felt like pure comic relief here. But the character was just so much more than that, especially in the TOS series. He was a serious character, a genius, and a bit of a badass. He felt more like Lucky Charms than Scotty. When Kirk and Sulu were falling to their death and no one could lock on him, I couldn’t see Chekov stepping up and saving them. THAT was something SCOTTY should have done. Scotty is the transporter guru, not Chekov. It felt out of place. Chekov should never have been in the movie at all, let alone some prodigy. It was forced. It might have made more sense if Kirk found a young Chekov on Delta Vega, and ended up convincing him to join Starfleet by the end of the movie. It would have made more sense to me, and we could have even got some good Russian jokes about the cold.
5. Spock Prime–While the writers’ goal was to create a new Trek canon, it was beyond out of character for Spock Prime not to slingshot back another 25 years and stop Nero at the beginning. This is a guy who risked his life and career for 1 man (Captain Pike). No WAY would he EVER allow Vulcan to be destroyed by a time traveller.
6. Some of the humor. Star Trek has humor, but slapstick is not part of it. Scotty’s Ewok friend, and Kirk’s gigantic hands–just stupid jokes that fell flat for me.
7. One missed opportunity–one of the people in the bar fight should have had a very Irish accent and be named Finnegan. Would have been a nice in joke.
8. Spock ejecting Kirk from the ship. It was a ridiculous moment in the movie and made no sense. They have a brig for crying out loud.
9. The aftermath of the Kobayshi Maru. Kirk was supposed to get a commendation for original thinking. Yes, different timeline, but I think the scene should have had that in it before the red alert.
THINGS THAT DID WORK FOR ME
1. I said Spock Prime, Scotty and Chekov were poorly written. But Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura, and Sulu were well done. I didn’t even have too much of a problem with Sulu’s piloting error. Sulu was a LITTLE off, in that he started out as a botanist, and they missed a chance to maybe have the movie do a little transition, but I thought the scene with the sword was cool. Hard to go wrong with sword fighting.
This wasn’t the Kirk I would have pictured in the Academy–the stack of books with legs, but he had a different childhood. In the end though, he isn’t quite the badass he was in the other timeline, but he’s still Kirk. I hope the next movie explores the man’s uncanny ability to lead and his brilliance as a captain.
While I didn’t like the Spock/Uhura romance, I did like Spock and Uhura, the people. I don’t know why Kirk couldn’t just look up Uhura’s first name in the school directory like any normal person, but Uhura acted in character for the most part for me.
I can’t compliment the writing of McCoy enough. Combined with Karl Urban’s acting, it was the best part of the film. I’m confident the role will be expanded in the next one, no matter what they do.
2. Casting–while I didn’t like Chekov and Scotty as written, the actors were not the problem. Pine works as Kirk, and Quinto was the right call. Urban was brilliant. All of them were really good.
3. The Kobayshi Maru–while I didn’t like the aftermath, I thought the way Kirk reprogrammed the test was well done. It wasn’t quite the same technique Kirk used in the prime timeline (if you go by the book Kobayshi Maru or the game Starfleet Academy), but it was the same general idea, and it worked. Now THAT was an example of humor that hit the mark.
Overall, the movie succeeded in its goals. But they CAN do better. There IS room for improvement.
While I want the next movie to deal with the consequences of the historical changes, I don’t think they will tackle that. It WOULD make a remarkable chance to see Shatner and Nimoy together, but it’s one of those “too good to be true” things for me.
I just hope they do NOT bother with Khan.
#322—”Too often on boards like this one, people who dissent are treated poorly, or worse, banned, and that’s not right. ”
They may happen elsewhere, but no one has ever been banned here for expressing dissent.
#304—”You people who are so excited about this film are Star Trek fans? Really? Star Trek?”
Yep. Go figure, huh?
I mean—it makes no sense that people reading and posting on a site called “Trekmovie.com” would be Star Trek fans…. Right?
“there are too many specific terrible things for me to even begin to go into.”
And yet you do just that for about half a page! Lol.
#322—” Erasing canon. I don’t care how many quantum physics theories Orci recites–in STAR TREK, while there are many universes, there is only one timeline. ”
It’s funny that you would mention MWI/QM as things that didn’t work for you—since it really isn’t even part of the story. This is something which was intentionally left ambiguous.
It doesn’t work for me either, as applied to the Star Trek Universe, but since it isn’t on screen—it isn’t canon. Fortunately, the door was left open for varied interpretation.
As for canon being erased, it isn’t. The timeline made up of everything we knew before as “canon” (ENT-NEM) is precisely what leads the broader story to this point. And the potential for an alternate timeline to be created due to interference with the past is in itself canon—and has been for more than 40 years. Everything depicted over the last 45 years (5 television series and 10 previous films) still happened in this fictional universe, albeit in another timeline.
You don’t have to buy into MWI/QM. I don’t either (again, at least as applied to Star Trek). However, nothing in this story is precluded by previous canonical material, since MWI/QM is only addressed off screen by one of the writers.
Actually, you’re right that if it isn’t onscreen, it isn’t canon. So we go by what’s onscreen, and we’ve seen multiple times that in Star Trek, time travel changes erase the timeline. This is not left open. It is what it is.
Everything may have happened, but all of that resulted in only one thing–the memories of Spock Prime. Everything else is gone from existence.
The only person to whom the 45 years of Trek happened to, is Spock Prime. It’s arguable that this even erases Enterprise, from a timeline that existed after Picard stopped the Borg–something that may not happen now.
The point though is that the original universe, as we watched for decades, is gone. A copy of it may exist, and I can buy that it does, but it isn’t the exact SAME. The SAME people are now living different lives, with different experiences.
The attempts by Orci to say otherwise are admirable, but ultimately, they are just a way to placate what should be an angry base of longtime fans.
Newer fans won’t care.
#326—I’ve been a fan for more than 30 years (although never much of a spinoff fan), and I am not angry at all. I found this to be a clever way of restarting the franchise.
I’ve been waiting over twenty years for these characters to be recast.
#326 As said in the movie.. .the universe has a way of repairing itself. Didn’t you see that onscreen? Many things will play out essentially the same, as the souls of the characters remain the same. We got to see Kirk and crew end up together, albeit seven years early. Where they go from here is unpredictable, yet so it was in 1966 when we sat down to watch Star Trek.
1985 still exists. We’re just in 1985A. Ol Doc’ Brown always explained it better. :)
If Bad Robot ends up making a CGI TNG movie, or an actual TNG movie set after Countdown, will that reassure you? I’m sure there’s a small chance that after these three films are made, we might see just such a film.
I’m more of a TNG fan myself, so I’d like a TNG cameo (which would make sense story-wise: The Federation -Prime- sends an expedition to discover what happened to Ambassador Spock). However, I think the best course of action would be to let the new crew carry on the Trek legacy. Have them do 3-4 movies and then reboot TNG.
Btw, for all those people saying that they want entirely new adventures: Take a look at the other reboots. The Batman movies use the Joker, not a new villain. People love familiar stories with a fresh perspective. If a TNG reboot were to happen, I’d want to see the Borg, not some random alien race.
#131 “seek out new life and new civilizations!. That’s what’s been missing in every trek film! Honest-to-goodness STAR TREK!”
#133 “Actually, imo TMP was the only one to follow that theme. And it was the best one”
MY 2 CENTS ON “SEEKING OUT NEW LIFE, ETC…”
It is my belief – - has been for years – - that you CAN do Star Trek right – - you CAN have suspense, wonderment, and action all in the same film!
No matter how much you or I enjoy TMP, the fact is, it has an extremely slow pace throughout 80% of the film. Slow-moving science fiction spells death at the box office no matter how you want to paint it.
Also, I disagree that no other Trek films had any “seeking out” – - Chekov and his captain beamed down to Ceti Alpha V in TWOK… and the creatures in their “bo-deez” were interesting too. Plus, the element of the unknown was given to us in the form of “Project Genesis.”
But like I said, if you do it the right way, Trek can “seek out new life and new civilizations, etc” – - and have guns-a-blazin’ when it needs to. It is a delicate balancing act for the writers but it can be done, absolutely.
Michael,
I feel bad for you. You cant just go to a movie and enjoy it without taking out your pen and paper and trying your hardest to find plot holes, errors, and just anything you dont feel like liking.
Oh, boo hoo, they could shoot down the drill!! Oh, THE UNIFORMS arnt right!?!?! And YOUR telling people to go kiss a girl???? LOL what a joke your post was.
For the record I have no problem with people of differing opinions on any film. We are all entitled to it. But clearly this is a guy (in the 5%) that went into this movie not wanting to like it, regardless of what he says.
You, Michael, need to put the pen and paper down next time you go to the movie theatre. Maybe bring a girl instead? You might be happier and leave the theatre with a better experience.
I am a huge William Shatner fan, and he will always be Captain Kirk, But he needs to let go. For Star Trek to survive and continue develop a brand identity that is appealing to large box office draws, the rest of the TOS crew needs to be left out of the near future films. I would never ever want to disrespect the fine actors that started this all, that made me a fan over 20 years ago. But as fans who knows that it is ticket sales that drive film industry, we need to move on and embrace the new world JJ Abrams has recreated without William Shatner.
As for Mr. Shatner, I am sorry. You are a cultural icon, that can never be replaced. But if you love this franchise as much as you say you do then let this new crew fully develop and reach it’s potential without having to cater to the past.
As for my fellow Trekers, quit being so damn nit-picky. This film was great. It’s time to let go, this was a whole new universe the moment the Kelvin was destroyed.
To the whole team that made this new film, thank you. I can’t wait for more.
#326—”The point though is that the original universe, as we watched for decades, is gone.”
It is no less tangible now than it was prior to ST09;
” A copy of it may exist, and I can buy that it does, but it isn’t the exact SAME. The SAME people are now living different lives, with different experiences. ”
But those same fictional characters still “lived” in the fictional timeline formed by previous canonical material, and I have the dvds to prove it! Now we have the opportunity to see how their lives turn out under altered circumstances.
If that is worth little to you, then you have every right to turn away (as I did for the most part with the spinoff series/films beginning in 1987). Or, you can enjoy the adventures of these characters in this alternate timeline.
But make no mistake—-you didn’t lose anything. ENT-NEM still happened, albeit in another timeline (of which the new one is a byproduct).
Closettrekker, fair enough. There will be long time fans with your reaction. I think the majority of people like you would be the same people that still was fairly satisfied with the franchise when Berman and Braga were running it and actually liked Enterprise.
I have no issue with the recast. I also thought that was long overdue. But I do take issue with completely destroying canon.
328–I get that. There are some things that can’t be repaired though. I actually liked how no matter what, fate brought the crew together. Of course, you KILL one of them, and the timeline can’t repair that. I agree that these ARE the same people we followed, albeit with different adventures behind and ahead of them. There will be no Balance of Terror, Amok Time, Journey to Babel, and many more adventures.
Some adventures can be similar. Kirk certainly can still bamboo bazooka the crap out of the Gorn.
Keep in mind that timelines don’t work the same exact way in Trek as they do in BTTF. If they did, Spock Prime would have disappeared. But one similarity is that the timeline, once changed, is erased. There was no 1985 and 1985A. There was only 1985, which was affected by the actions in 1955.
As for Shatner, there is absolutely no evidence that he is not capable of playing the role of Kirk again, assuming age appropriate of course. Shatner IS a cultural icon, and cannot ever be replaced. He’s a legend. And people aren’t dumb enough to NOT KNOW that the guy was Kirk.
Shatner only would have HELPED the sales of this movie. Yes, the movie was a success. It would have been THAT MUCH more of a success with him and his promotional abilities.
The movie was good, not great. Good is better than garbage, which has been the state of the franchise for many years. So for that, the writers should be commended. And I agree–this was a whole new universe the moment the Kelvin was destroyed.
Do not get me wrong. I think Bill is a great actor and still has tons of appeal. I just think that if this reboot is going to work, it needs to be a fresh start. It needs a chance to grow on it’s own merit. Look at the James Bond franchise, is a great example of this.
Understood, but I don’t think the two are comparable. I’d love to see them do something that gives Shatner a proper goodbye to the character–preferably something with Nimoy–that is better than the awful Generations sendoff.
He deserves that. Whether it will happen is another story. But he deserves that. So do the jilted Shatner fans that still are pissed about Generations. If they WANT to do it, it will happen. But I don’t expect it.
#21, 26, and others… since when does $$ equal anything? Blade Runner only broke even. Transformers made over 700 million worldwide. Even The Crystal Skull – which I know a lot of you did not like, made nearly 800 million. I don’t think I need to explain the problems with your suggestions in relation to each of these examples. Money is not a measure to go by as far as film quality or Star Trek’s survival. Money will mean they’ll make more Treks, but it doesn’t mean Trek’s spirit or wisdom will come out on the other side.
Abrams et all have pushed money and the hegemonic authority of capitalism back into the Trek universe, but that doesn’t mean money’s everything. Sorry.
Even so, I am absolutely sure that with this new team, the next Trek movie will be even closer to the spirit of the show I have loved all my life… I have faith, they will do even better.
Bottom Line – You need revenue for anything to survive for long – Bottom Line
I’m thrilled for Star Trek box office success because it gives all things Star Trek more life……
I really hated Kirk’s death in Generations, but if we want to see more of the original style of the TV show, Shatner has to go. No more looking at the past, this is a chance to see something new, while yet maintain the flavor of the TOS and the Star Trek Universe we love. “To Boldly go…” means Shatner’s Kirk must remain dead.
#334—”I think the majority of people like you would be the same people that still was fairly satisfied with the franchise when Berman and Braga were running it… ”
I don’t think that either of us can claim to speak for any “majority”, but for my part, I was never a particular fan of Berman/Braga Trek—-or for that matter—-Roddenberry’s revisionist do-over (aka TNG).
“But I do take issue with completely destroying canon.”
I just cannot get my head around the notion that canon is somehow destroyed. The possibility and potential for the creation of an alternate timeline due to interference with the past is in itself a canonical concept, and has been since the very first season of Star Trek. Star Trek’s storytelling possibilities have never been limited to strictly linear grounds. This concept has always been there. “The City On The Edge Of Forever” and “Tommorow Is Yesterday” are examples where this concept was explored more than 40 years ago, and (non-canon)offscreen commentary on MWI/QM aside, nothing in this film does anything to steer away from the manner in which this has been treated all along, as far as I am concerned.
It is events in that timeline (the 5 television series and 10 previous films) which lead to the story and the alternate timeline (created the moment the Narada appears to the USS Kelvin). It would be as if Kirk and Spock had never located the focal point in time which caused the altered timeline depicted in TCOTEOF, as if Spock had not re-entered the Guardian in an attempt to save his own life in “Yesteryear”, or as if the Enterprise had not returned Captain Christopher to his aircraft in “Tommorow Is Yesterday”.
The only difference is that the story did not end tied up in a neat little bow where the heroes have managed to restore everything where it was supposed to be. What a concept!
“The movie was good, not great.”
In my mind, there have been 4 truly fantastic Star Trek films (each fantastic in its own way)—TMP, TWOK, TVH, and ST09. None of those four films are anywhere near perfect. I could rip apart any one of them in a heartbeat. But what’s the point? Is it not merely to be entertained?
No Star Trek movie is ever going to be “The Godfather Part II”. It just isn’t going to happen, and it was never going to. ST09 is what it is—a Star Trek movie—and as far as Star Trek movies go, this one is great, IMO.
Star Trek hasn’t been this fun in decades.
I don’t know about the “Godfather Part II”, But certainly it can be done to some degree, look at “The Dark Knight” A Batman movie thoughtfully considered to be a nominee for a best picture nomination.
City on the Edge actually supports the notion that one timeline exists, and when changes are made, the original timeline is wiped out. So does Yesterday’s Enterprise. That’s exactly what happened here, except no one bothered to protect the natural timeline.
And I will admit that this was the best movie since 1991. I just take issue with the idea that they decided to completely wipe out the known Trek universe to do it. I don’t think this movie needed to do that to be as successful, even WITH Nero as a villain.
#343—”That’s exactly what happened here, except no one bothered to protect the natural timeline.”
There is plenty of reason for Spock to logically deduce that attempting to correct the changes in the timeline is not a good solution here, and neither is offering up the necessary knowledge for others to do so (slingshot effect calculations).
In all other examples of Trek time travel, the heroes basically had nothing to lose by attempting to do so. The worst possible outcome of a failed attempt was the status quo.
That isn’t the case in this story. The likelihood of making things much worse outweighed the potential benefits of success.
Take the notion that Spock Prime should have simply travelled back in time again to prevent the destruction of his home planet.
Not only would they have to be successful in saving Vulcan, but they would also have to be able to count on being able to recreate the same set of circumstances that allowed them to defeat the Narada before 9in the altered timeline). And there would be no guarantee that they would be successful in either case.
They could actually end up making things much worse instead. At that point (where Nimoy’s Spock emparts the future knowledge to Scotty and to Kirk), the objective is to make sure Kirk assumes command of the Enterprise, and gets to Earth in time to save it. They were fortunate to stop Nero and defeat him permanently in the process.
It should go without saying that they wouldn’t risk not being able to do the same thing all over again.
And holding up their efforts further by trying to convince the younger Spock to buy into the slingshot effect (which, in the original timeline, was discovered by accident later on) could have so delayed them that the Narada would have been lying in wait for the Enterprise in the Sol system (having already destroyed Earth)…and of course a head-on encounter with the Narada would likely have been the end of the Enterprise.
Just because you have the knowledge to try—doesn’t mean it is a good idea, especially if you could end up making things worse in the process. We have actually seen this theme dealt with previously in Trek.
In this case, “cutting his losses” was the logical decision.
Fans have an easy out either way. Either you believe (in accordance with MWI/QM) that he cannot simply “slingshot around the Sun” to correct anything and accept the retconning of Star Trek time travel, or you can reason that—although he can try—it isn’t the logical choice in this case (if, like me, you place more value upon canon than modern scientific theory).
Either way, it can be reconciled quite easily.
Moreover, there is also substantial reason to believe that the previous timeline wasn’t a “natural” one at all—-but that’s an entirely different subject…
:)
Hello everyone, the “original” timeline is intact except an alternate timeline was created by the movie – did anyone bother to pay attention!!!!!!!!
…..even the most dim-witted individual with an advanced degree……
PS
Shatner no more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shatner would blow doors as Emperor Tiberius bent on revenge– oops, not revenge again. Love Mr.Shatner as Kirk, but there’s no place for him in this actionfied, instant-captain Star Trek. With due respect to Mr. Pine. The producers would likely bury Shatner under age makeup or severely limit his role. I wish “The Return” had been prduced, however that isn’t likely now. I thought the new movie was OK. action, not such great Trek. It was nice seeing the original series on screen.
#345—-”Hello everyone, the “original” timeline is intact except an alternate timeline was created by the movie – did anyone bother to pay attention!!!!!!!!”
I think you might be the one who failed to pay attention.
Even the writers concede that their offscreen commentary is not canon.
For many of us, so long as it does not appear onscreen, it isn’t canon. That is the way it has always been, and nothing depicted in this film has changed that.
The discussion that Mitch and I are having is based upon the notion that MWI/QM is not canon—-and it isn’t.
#346—”I wish “The Return” had been (produced), however that isn’t likely now. ”
Thank god for rejected ideas!
If I knew a film was based upon that story idea, I wouldn’t have paid to see it—that’s for sure!
“Love Mr.Shatner as Kirk…”
TOS-TVH=William Shatner as James T. Kirk=great
TFF (aka TGTTO89)-GEN=James T. Kirk as William Shatner=not so good
But that’s just my opinion.
#342—”A Batman movie thoughtfully considered to be a nominee for a best picture nomination.”
I liked TDK too, but that might be overstating it a bit. It was never going to happen…nor should it have, IMO.
For those who haven’t been around long, “TGTTO89″ stands for “The Great Theatrical Trek Of ‘89.”
#350—-”For those who haven’t been around long, ‘TGTTO89′ stands for ‘The Great Theatrical Trek Of ‘89.’ ”
Lol.
Hey, if you have to go to the post office in The Heights, where do you go?
And that’s “The Great Trek Turd Of ‘89″ for all those trekmovie newbies out there… Don’t let my buddy Prime fool ya!!!
Row, row, row your boat…
#351 … There’s one on Heights @ 11th St. Also one on West Gray between Waugh & Shepherd. Those are the closest two I can think of.
And where you see a turd, I see cinematic potential!
#352—The horror….the horror…the horror…the horror…the horror…the horror….
:(
a close second is Data’s “Blue skies …”
#353—-”And where you see a turd, I see cinematic potential!”
Now there’s a notion I never thought I would see expressed in any form whatsoever…
:)
1) Bill….go away. Your time on deck is long gone.
2) More McCoy next time…….DAMMIT!!
#353—Speaking of cinematic potential, did you ever get a chance to catch ST09 in IMAX?
I went to the last midnight showing over the weekend at the Edwards, and it was absolutely packed! That was my 2nd IMAX viewing, and 3rd overall.
And the music playing in the theater before the previews was all TWOK score!!!
Would love to see more of McCoy in the next film, Karl Urban nailed it. He was hands down my favorite in this film.
I never thought I would see the day where I would say I want a “Shatnerless Star Trek”. Bill for the good of the many…
dammit bill, you’re dead in generations!!!
The smartass that is me would never forgive myself for not saying…
at least Shat’s hands got a cameo.
(Sorry.)
#339: “Bottom Line – You need revenue for anything to survive for long – Bottom Line”
Your bottom line is dark fantasy, friend; it’s demonstrably un-true on thousands of counts out in the real world.
The franchise dies without revenue, but Star Trek, long ago, earned an identity beyond the franchise.
Sometimes I think if I hear the words “I love Shatner, but…” once more, I’ll cry. :D
#362. I simply typed a quick comment from what I read in #337. Your right about the enduring aspects of Star Trek. I’m just trying to say that I missed being entertained by new prime-time Trek productions and am glad the box-office success will lead to more….cerebral Trek…humerous Trek…action Trek…all of it. (btw..remember anything about Gilgamesh?)
154. S. John Ross – May 26, 2009 said:
“#147, #152: What’s the point of the name-calling?”
Dude, it was not name calling. It was stating a fact! :-)
No please go back to kindergarten where everyone is NICE! :-)
correction: “You’re right about the enduring aspects of Star Trek.”
344–There is NO logical reason for Spock Prime to allow someone to time travel and destroy the lives of billions. It certainly was never explored in the movie, and it is out of character.
He just accepted it and moved on. It was illogical, irrational, and just not Spock Prime.
Would there be RISK? Of course. But a wise man once showed Spock that RISK is their business. Everything involves risk. Logically, the point to engage Nero would be at the point where Nero attacked the Kelvin. Nero’s ship was advanced, but it wasn’t a Borg cube. Under the right circumstances, Nero could have been stopped. And at MINIMUM, Spock could have got some people on Vulcan to shoot at the giant drill bit.
Cutting losses could not have been the logical decision at all. Heck, at worst, they are in NO WORSE of a position because Nero was already defeated 25 years later. If Spock Prime dealt with things after Nero died, logically, the only risk would be to Spock Prime and any allies he amassed. But I don’t see how Nero could have defeated the entire military might of Vulcan, which Spock could easily have mobilized.
If the point of this movie is to create a new canon within canon, then some things cannot be changed. Events can be changed, but not the way things operate, and absolutely Spock could slingshot around the sun and get to Nero at a more appropriate time. He had the knowledge, the time, and the logical reason to do so.
#367—-I totally disagree.
They were incredibly fortunate to be able to defeat the Narada in the altered timeline, 25 years after the USS Kelvin incident. If Spock Prime were to go back in time in an effort to prevent this tragedy, he would have to create the same luck and circumstance that allowed the Enterprise to do so in the first place—extremely unlikely to say the least. This is the difference between ST09 and previous time travel stories. In past stories, the worst possible outcome for failure was the status quo. In this case, the worst possible outcome is, instead of just Vulcan’s destruction, the destruction of Earth and the rest of the planets in the Federation—as well as the deaths of the time-travelling heroes (since Spock Prime would also have to convince others to help him), precluding any second attempt if the first one failed.
It is not “logical” to choose the likelihood of failure and *trillions* of deaths just because there is a small chance to prevent the deaths of billions. Obviously, trillions of deaths is a far worse outcome than the deaths of 6 billion.
TCOTEOF presented a scenario where there was no risk at all in trying. ST09 presents a scenario where everything would be at risk!
Apples and oranges.
If Spock Prime assumed *that* kind of risk—-he would need his head examined. Talk about out of character!
And of course it isn’t addressed in the film, since the writers do not believe in the classical sci-fi treatment of time travel to begin with. In their minds, and in the minds of modern quantum physicists—-each time one travelled back in time, another independent thread would be created.
IMO, if you cannot see the difference in this and past scenarios involving Spock and time travel, then you probably have no wish to reconcile it anyway. I have no trouble seeing the difference (an abhorrent degree of risk), and it made perfect sense to me right away.
Closettrekker, you is one eloquent dude!
Bill will probably outwit the naysayers like Kirk did the Kobayashi Maru
(with the help of the great new cast & crew of course ) and even get back into shape too.
Prosper and Live Long
I’m going to wait to see how Shatner is brought in before I make any judgements. No matter how retarded an idea is, there’s always a way to make it work. The question is if they FIND it.
#371—”No matter how retarded an idea is, there’s always a way to make it work. The question is if they FIND it.”
The question to me is “why should they be looking for it?”. I think that Shatner’s appearance should have to accomodate the story…not vice-versa.
This cast is quite capable of standing upon their own feet.
i want to see the nest genrations story now it’s time for the enterprise e crew to return i think that jj adams new star trek movie shows that the tos are the new kids on the block whilst the tng crew are the big dogs and that the tng crew are the ones who have to fix the timeline again like first contact.
and was i the only who thought that the enterprise e was going turn up on the begining of the film or the end of the film to save the day it just seemed to me that the ship kilven was going to be saved by the enterprise e and the enterprise e destorys the romulan ship but nero somehow espapes by a small ship or somthing making picard think that they stoped him and going back to there timeline there is just so many things that could or should have been done in star trek 11 but i only like the tng films and 3 of the tos this film woul of been a complete waste of time if it didn’t have ambastor spock in it
At #1: Get a life.
Oh heaven’s sakes Shatner – you’re STILL keen on getting a part in the sequal, and yet you 1) did not attend the premier of this new film ANd had the (raw) nerve to sell the unused tickets for the premier AFTER the premier (how nice of you) and 2) have STILL yet to see it. It’s….. shameful! The universe does not revolve around you, Sir! You had your chance with Generations and frankly blew it. The sequal belongs to the new crew of the Enterprise.
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see Kirk back – if only to render his silly death in Generations obsolete – but this shouldnt interfere with the new movie sequal. The sequal should follow the new crew going where no man had gone before – and this time I hope it is something truly new/unique…
Instead, I’d love to see a made for TV movie with Spock-Prime getting back to his proper time-line, and somehow saving Kirk. This could be aired a month before the new movie sequal and it would BLOW RATINGS SKY HIGH, AND create more of a buzz for the sequal.
Everyone is happy!
Ahhh dream on……
P.S. a new Star Trek TV series featuring Shatner and Nimoy would be ace!
#373—”and was i the only (one) who thought that the enterprise e was going turn up on the begining of the film or the end of the film to save the day (?) ”
Yes, you were the only one who thought that. Picard couldn’t shine Jim Kirk’s boots.
#377…LOL. I’ve always liked ol’ JL Picard. But Kirk will always be my #1 fictional hero!
Re: Closettrekker #344: I’ve been thinking along the same lines. They had their hands full defeating the Narada at all.
Also, Spock Prime seems to be seeing evidence that the time line is already acting to correct itself. I believe he takes a leap of faith – as his old friend was wont to do – that it will continue to do so.
I also wonder if Spock Prime, having just come through a rather spectacular failure, and “emotionally compromised” in his own words, isn’t entirely sure that he could pull such a save off without his own Kirk at his side. Supporting this, he tells young Spock how much better he and Kirk will be together.
Re: Shatner being in the sequel. I trust the makers of this amazing movie to make it good if there’s a way to do it. I’d love to see Nimoy and Shatner together again as Spock and Kirk. I also realize it might not be organically a good idea – and I have my DVD’s – and my memories.
Putting Shatner in the new Star Trek would actually be simple and easy – Kirk is dead and gone in the original time line, but he’s not dead and gone in the new time line – He has his whole future ahead of him and Shatner could have a fantastic “send-off” playing the new time line “future Kirk”…
Time travel doesn’t even need to be involved – Something happens that creates an older version of Kirk (which would be funnier than hell, with Shatner playing the “smart ass” he does so well…)
Imagine the older Kirk being a royal pain in the ass, getting into all kinds of mischief, creating all kinds of obstacles young Kirk has to deal with – a lot of good comedy could come out of young Kirk having to put up with all of the older Kirk’s antic’s…
While the old Kirk has the time of his life doing all this, at the same time there’s another side that helps young Kirk adjust to his new command and (through a bit of humility) become less of a smart ass and more of a leader…
yes, whatever the plot of the sequel will be, the new spock and new kirk live their adventures with the rest of the enterprise crew building up their life long friendship.
at the end of the movie, an older spock (nimoy again) and older kirk (shatner, of course!) converse at how right spock prime was about them!
I personally feel that the new Trek film was totally perfect as it is. As far as a sequel is concerned, I don’t think I am quite ready to see the Shat play Kirk again. I personally love Spock and nearly sheaded some serious tears when Spock Prime encounters young Spock at the end of the film. Nimoy’s appearance just seemed to work, because he is and always shall be Spock.
As far as Shatner is concerned, I have so much respect for what he has contributed to Trek (I mean he was amazing as James T. Kirk in the original series and films), but I feel that he has gone past that. And I am sure that he himself no longer feels as if he can continue to call himself James T. Kirk. I think that in a way he has sort of “outgrown” the character. I mean, I don’t really blame him for wanting to appear in the new Trek films, but I feel that it just would not be right. It would feel forced and out of place. Nonetheless, it would only be fair if the Shat fans got their chance at glory as well.
First off…I LOVED the movie…despite obvious holes in the plot (true trek fans overlook this…as the Star Trek Universe is FULL of them!).
For me..the most enjoyable and memorable shows in any of the Star Trek genre since TOS…has been where the original characters have made appearances (Reunification was my favorite simply because of Leonard Nimoys role)
William Shatner will always be James T Kirk for me. Im torn between having the new crew forge boldly on as they are, without any appearances from the original cast, and seeing Shatner as Kirk (yes…one last time…lol). His death in Generations was a complete joke. James Kirk should have gone out in a blaze of glory (much like George Kirk in the new movie)…not by falling down a stupid rock! Kirk deserves a much better death….what were they thinking????
If they do bring Shat back as Kirk (one last time), anyone who knows the Star Trek universe knows that we dont need yet another time travel story (been wayyyyy overdone) and Im sure if it was done well…it wouldnt make or break the next Star Trek movie.
With or without William Shatner (cameo or otherwise)….cant wait for the next movie!
My 2 cents….or…as Im Canadian…1.3 cents….heheh
cmon already what kinda of universe exists without Capt James T Kirk