TrekInk: Wrath of Khan Comic Adaptation Preview June 3, 2009
by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Comics, Feature Films (TMP-NEM) , trackback
Fixing an oversight from 1982, IDW will is finally adapting Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan as a comic book. The three issue series written by Adny Schmidt with art by Yang Ong Chee kicks off next week. IDW has provided us with five page preview for the book, check it out below
Preview of Star Trek II Comic Adaptation
A & B covers for TWOK #1
Retail incentive cover for TWOK #1
First four pages of TWOK #1
Pre-order TWOK Comic Adaptation
Pre-order the three-issue series at TFAW
Out Today – Crew #4
Arriving in comic stores today is the fourth issue in John Byrne’s "Star Trek Crew" series.
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Comments»
oooo reboot of Khan, do it JJ, ppl will eat their words again.
1
please no JJ kahn movie.
ok
why is spocks thumb not pointed out in that TWOK #3
“Wrath of Khan” can’t be redone yet. We have to *find* him and maroon him first.
#2 – Just want to know why so many people mess up spelling “Khan”, especially when it’s right there on the title of the article, or the covers in the article…
Cool! I already have the Wrath Of Khan adaptation. It’s in black and white and very well made. I got it more than 10 years ago. But it’s not english
Sounds like Saavik has something new to think about!
Kirk is the wrong badge. It has him with captain rank? did I miss something here?
hmmm, Saavik doesn’t look like Kirstie Alley there. She looks more like T’Pol (Jolene Blalock) LOL
Why did we see external shot of the Enterprise in the Kobiashi Maru simulation?
A space seed two hour movie would be cool…
PLEASE FOR GOD’S SAKE NO JJ WRATH OF KHAN. Let some things remain sacred.
They’ve got Sulu in the Navigator’s chair, not the Helmsman’s chair! Did the artist not watch the movie?
Also, the simulation used K’Tinga-class battlecruisers, not B’Rel-class scout ships.
Good grief!
Long before movies on VHS could be purchased at realistic prices (think $90 each) I had the “Photonovels” of both TMP and TWOK. Basically stills from the movie with all the dialogue as speech bubbles.
Inexplicably, TWOK was in black and white. I loved those things.
Boring art. Why not just watch the movie?
I know. If it’s a line-by-line painting of the movie, what’s the point?
Yup.
This one looks like it’s worth a miss. Wrong battle cruisers, etc. are just ’sauce for the goose.’
It’s a simple case of a comic not being able to measure up to a film by virtue of its format. The art looks fine, if a bit less accurate than the great “Countdown” comics.
I can call up any scene of this film in my head and run it like a DVD, as I am sure many of us can. I will only be disappointed if I buy this. TWOK is very much about how our actors/characters interact, and about atmosphere. The “cold” of space and the sub-like battles near Regula 1, and in ILM’s beautiful mutara nebula. Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley are at their best here, and a comic can’t truly reflect that.
Maybe I’m just being sentimental.I hope IDW makes something off of it,and that they write the sequels (TSFS/TVH) to attract new interest to these films. I will pass.
Why do I get the feeling that the next story that Abram does is a rebooting of Space seed. Since the time has been changed what if The enterprise runs into the Botany Bay earlier then it did in the original.
#16- right on. At least add a few extra bits of action or cute lines. And um why would they show the Enterprise being hit from the outside? It’s a simulation with no external POV. Also when Kirk enters he looks more like a drunk Denny Crane than ‘82-era Shat.
Wow.. the art on the character’s faces makes them look so darn ugly. it’s distracting.
Looks like the editors did not want to go anywhere near Kirstie Alley’s likeness for the Saavik character.
14.] Packed away in a box I just found a couple Star Trek photonovels, including “Metamorphosis” and “Amok Time”. Those were a good concept for that era.
7 & 13
OMG! Let’s burn down the comic stores in protest for them taking artistic license!
Is that Captain T’Pol er Saavik? – is that supposed to be Sulu turned around warning her of the neutral zone? I was looking forward to this comic, but after seeing the art I will pass on it.
I wouldn’t mind seeing a reboot of Space Seed for ST12. Those arguing against reusing characters what about Batman? What if they didn’t use the Joker in Dark Knight? Is the Penguin off limits? I’m sure that character can be improved upon as well as other “classic” characters. Sure I’d like to see new ideas. I’d rather see a new Space Seed than a STIV, I’m not sure redoing a movie like that is possible, but certainly reusing characters within the “universe” is.
Young minds, fresh ideas :)
Comic looks good. And NO KHAN MOVIE!!!!!
22
Ha ha, agreed. I don’t regularly buy Trek comics, but this one I might actually pick up– after seeing TWOK told one way for the last 27 years, it’s actually kinda cool seeing it from a slightly different perspective.
And so what if we see the Enterprise during the simulation? Is that really any less ridiculous than seeing a bunch of senior officers like Spock, McCoy and the rest participating in a TRAINING program for new recruits??? LOL
For the love of God folks, when will some of you realize that remaking a Khan story is NOT a good idea and that reason for this “reboot” is have new stories. For the love of all that is good and holy, LET KHAN GO!!!!
You can count me among those who wouldn’t mind seeing the new crew’s take on running into Khan. I bet it would be cool!
For crying out loud — I can’t tell which of you are lampooning the “They made a mistake/changed stuff, now it sucks” tendency of some of the fans, and which ones of you are actually serious. So Sulu’s in the wrong chair. So the ships are wrong (The wrong rank badge on Kirk? Yeah, that one bothers me a little… in the same way that it bothers me when people use the wrong real-world rank insignia in movies… a little research, folks… :) ) It’s still probably a solid comic. I’m liking the artwork.
And, yeah, no Khan reboot. Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman ought to be free to develop new Trek stories rather than have to do a “greatest hits” reunion tour of the best Trek moments warmed over.
The comic is exciting…it’s good to see classic trek getting so much love. It’s also cool to see the Enterprise get blow’d up during the Kobayashi Maru…and the artist uses some new angles rather than a scene-for-scene, frame-for-frame recreation of the movie. HOWEVER, I’m not overly impressed with the artwork. It looks nice from a distance (ie: in thumbnail form) but up close it’s horrible! The likenesses are awful and it just generally looks like the artist took lots of shortcuts…like he was in a hurry or something. I’ll buy it if it’s not too expensive. :-/
I really hate TWOK, and I am really tired of constantly hearing about it as if it’s the best movie EVER made.
Not only are the klingon ships wrong, but Kirk is wearing a captain’s insignia instead of an admiral’s.
Normally I’m not a huge stickler for canon, but those seem like pretty rookie mistakes.
Look, Sulu is using his V’ger face!
Why are we seeing the exteriors of the Enterprise getting attacked?? We’re in the simulation… the only exteriors we should be seeing are on the viewscreen…
odd…
#33 Indeed! That’s really a major snafu… more than a rank pin error!
#KAHN/KHAN. For some reason, that was a major typo since the late 60’s. I know that for a long time I’d write Kahn before Khan. Not sure why, but it was a *more* common error before The Wrath of Khan came out.
I’d love to see a twisted Khan in the sequel or the threequel. Have him found by Klingons… or, erm, Pakleds. Or have him resuscitated without the near-death experience we saw in Space Seed. Maybe that “damaged” him? We could see McCoy do something different this time… or they could wake Joaquin first… Of course, Prime Spock may have prevented this incident: which would be wise.
Ugh… not a fan of the illustrations in those preview pages. Looks very sloppy and loose. No offense to the artist of course, just not my style.
I am ambivalent about Khan showing up in the new films. It would be funny to have the Botany Bay show up, and then get blown up by a punk Klingon a la ST:V before any of the crew can be awakened. I think I’d rather see NEW adventures of the classic crew since we have that luxury now. Perhaps elements of some old episodes, but no outright remakes.
Looks nice, but shouldn’t they do a prequel comic first so we know how Worf and Data fit in? :)
holy hell does this thread read like dialogue from a movie mocking Trekkies for being anal retentive know-it-alls who still think their own script involving Carol Marcus, Finnegan, a spot-on replica of the 1960s cardboard Enterprise, inside and out, and making sure all 7524758927458927348957 pieces of already written Star Trek minutea, down to the color of the lavatories aboard the Excelsior, Dr. McCoy’s allergy to shellfish, and the evolutionary advantage that having a snout nose serves for a Tellarite.
“You can’t please all of the people all of the time, boy,” my grandfather used to say to me. And holy shit was that man right.
I just want one, solid, well thought-out, rationally composed answer that tells me why the hell you people can’t sit back and enjoy FICTION without stripping it down to a meandering blob of whiny, nasty, hateful bile, and screaming “Not good enough!. NEXT!!”
Shatner was right.
Nimoy was right.
ok. so breaking new ground here in terms of fan consultation as we humbly ask for your best opinions on wether or not we should see the big K in a sequel (knowing that it would not be a remake of the original movie, but continuing on in this Universe where things can be different).
Thanks in advance for well articulated opinions.
Please NO JJ WOK redux. I don’t think I could survive the lens flares on Ceti Alpha V. Besides, the new Trek movie is in a way Spock’s “Wrath of Khan”. Think about it.
As for the comic – I’m not impressed with the artwork, and the errors shown thus far just put me off from wanting to pick it up. Sorry, I’ll pass on this one.
Enough of Khan. Am still hoping for the story Gene Roddenberry always wanted to do more than any other, time travel back to Dallas on November 22, 1963. TIC.
41 Preach on brother! Would love that, but which way would you go — lone gunman or military industrial complex?
or mafia?
my vote is for something new in “2″ with a teaser for khan in “3″
but i think khan should definitely be seen in the the new timeline… that would be awesome.
I’d get it, but I’ve seen the movie 100 million times and don’t see much point in having a comic as well. XD
Boborci,
There is a huge part of me that wants to see Khan. A huge part. As much as Mr. Montalban made that role iconic, I would relish the chance to see a new take on the character. Just as Heath Ledger made the Joker his own, whil still harnessing the inherent iconic touchstones of that character, I would love to see someone do the same for Khan. You guys have written for Mr. Banderas before, have you not….?
Also, it seems to me that “Space Seed” would provide a decent inspiration point for the sequel. Those of us that would love to see Pine’s Kirk in a tactical face-off with a strong antagonist can’t help but think Khan is a natural choice.
However – You guys have successfully rebooted Star trek. There is a brand new shiny universe at your mercy, and as the fan on me salivates for Khan, the rest of me feels compelled to urge you to go ahead and make this universe count on its own terms. Create a distinctive, threatening, iconic villian or villains yourselves. Ones that will become so famed and effective in their own right, that in 30 years, people will debate whether THAT should be brough into future iterations of Trek.
Wow, my apologies, that was a long winded way of saying “maybe, maybe not”.
#39 Boborci – No to the Big K, for one totally unemotional (logical?) reason: we don’t get a weekly diet of Trek any longer. Right now we’re in a “wait every few years” mode. So when those times come, I would much rather see some new and, to date, unimagined. Let this new crew stretch their wings against challenges we’ve not see before. That means no Doomsday Machine 2K, no Time Travel, no Spock’s Brain: But Serious! All of that is, IMHO, fodder for Pocket Books for decades to come.
I will say this… go for the Other Big K: Klingons. There must be so much more to them than we’ve actually seen (AU or not) in the 23rd Century. Give us something new that honors the old. We “know a man by his enemies”… what kind of young James T. Kirk will we see when he faces the Klingons for the first time? Could that encounter define his interpretation of the Prime Directive (title for your next Trek film, btw)? What to do with 10,000 Vulcans searching for a new home if faced with a morally ambiguous (but sexy and action packed!) situation?
Quickies: no giant earth/galaxy/universe threatening challenge. It doesn’t have to be *that* big to be big. Also, please hire a science technical consultant to review the next script. And be sure to tell us how big the Enterprise is ;)
Good luck, thanks for asking!
the one thing i didn’t like about khan in STII was that we _heard_ about his intelligence in dialog, but it never really manifested in his actions.
first, when spock says “if we go by the book, as lieutenant savak says, hours would seem like days”, to which kirk responds “i’m reading you commander”… kahn should have broken that code easily, especially when the code definition and coded transition are so close together.
secondly, khan is bested by a simple we-realize-that-space-
is-3-dimensional-and-kahn-doesn’t move seemed a little anti-climactic. there could have been more scenes where we see khan’s intelligence, and not just taken it as a given
i just watched balance of terror, that’s a great duel…
From a business point of view, I think the inclusion of Khan would give the sequel a further “must see” quality in the mainstream. Especially if he were played by a star.
Sci-Fi Bri,
It’s true that Khan never seems to face the same kind of nit-picking that people insist on subjecting to movies these days. If WOK was released now, people would have a jolly old time time with the “science” of the Genesis device, the reliance on coincidences (Kirk’s former lover and son being caught up in the battle with Kirk’s old foe, Chekov discovering the Botany Bay) as well as those issues you mention.
hah bob orci-maybe norma jean was the shooter on the grassy knoll?
My opinion-no on khan even tho you guys could come up with a fresh original and exciting take on it–in many ways trek09 had a similar antagonist–I think it would be too similar to the 1st movie-just like the movies kinda redid nomad and the whale probe was almost kinda similar–we wanna see bold new adventures of our fave characters-i would love a more cosmic storyline and after watching tom hanks profess his love of trek last nite-put him in the next movie too—ohh and thanx mr orci for your contributions to a great trek movir! Ive seen it 5 times now and brought others with me every time and everyone has loved it-
Jim Nightshade,.
Don’t forget, unlike Nero, Khan wouldn’t be vengeful in Alt-Trek. Not against Kirk anyway. Presumably, his first order of business would be to steal the Enterprise and set himself up as Earth’s leader.
44. Sci-Fi Bri – June 3, 2009
Smart.
47. Matt D – June 3, 2009
No apology necessary. We are in the same boat.
48. Robert Saint John – June 3, 2009
Noted. Good thoughts.
. Sci-Fi Bri – June 3, 2009
I know what you mean, but when I saw that as a teenager, i was like, ‘WOW”
– but I still know what you mean. The spirit of that idea would have to be updated.
Bob, save Khan for the third movie. It would be a crowd pleaser, but lets see the gang kicking klingon buttski first. Maybe set Khan up with a cameo?
50. Matt D – June 3, 2009
I think you are right. The fact that media i already speculating on the possibility of the big K indicates the amount of free marketing we would get for going down that road, and that is no minor consideration. Thanks for the opinion.
No leave Khan alone – lets see fresh new story
52. Jim Nightshade – June 3, 2009
Thank you for weighing in. Your opinion is truly noted.
53. Matt D – June 3, 2009
Yes indeed!
Javier Bardem from No Country For Old Men would be awesome as Khan.
63. Bugs Nixon – June 4, 2009
Yup.
Ooh, Javier Bardem. Great choice bugs nixon.
Boborci,
From a personal point of view, and forgive me if I am being too simplistic here, but is it particularly appealing for you to write for a character that was played by such a famed and celebrated hispanic? As a hispanic yourself, as well as a Star Trek fan, that must be near impossible to resist isn’t it?
66. Matt D – June 4, 2009
Good question. On the one hand, it is appealing for the reasons you mention, but on the other hand it is safer to avoid it and not risk screwing it up!
I can imagine, thanks for your response.
Mr Orci,
Put me down on the side thinking we shouldn’t “see the big K in a sequel”…
Although I can think of ways it could work cinematically (even knowing you have to work from the same starting point as “Space Seed”), and I’m sure you’ve already played out a few hypothetical scenarios in your own mind, you’re better off (in my opinion) taking full advantage of the possibilities a new timeline has to offer.
After all, don’t you want to add even more of your own creations to the Star Trek pantheon? ;)
The fascinating thing is, even though there are many of us who hope to see something new for the sequel, we would ALL lose our sh*t with excitment if it were announced that Khan was going to be the main villain.
I would like to see elements that ended up in TWOK – like, say, Carol Marcus. But I would not go anywhere else near Khan. It was Ricardo Montalban’s acting that gave that character life. Why touch on something that was so good, just to crap on it. Kinda like T4. Why? Oh yeah. To make money. I’m sure somebody will eventually say something like “Heck, they could just CGI Ricardo like they did Arnold in T4″. Yeah. But why?
DJT
T4 is one example, but Heath Ledger’s Joker is another. As is Pine/Quinto/Urban.
Beloved characters CAN be recast and reinterpreted. Alt-Trek has proven that.
The adaptation will be really good if they take the timt to include a few scenes from the novelisation covering the backstory of Peter Preston, Saavik, and the staff at the Regula One station. If it is just the movie it will be less interesting to me but I will probably still buy it.
Bob,
The big problem with villains in star trek is that they completely put the ship’s mission (and the driving thesis of star trek) on hold. To seek out new life, civilizations, and to go where none have gone before. This is true especially if the enterprise destroys the villian in the end. They’ve made no progress in the mission. They’ve just survived. I loved it when in the new movie kirk offers diplomacy in order to further relations with romulus. If there must be a villain then lets have a story where the antagonist in the end becomes the hero, and the federation has a new (formerly undiscovered) ally.
I’d quite like to see a bit more espionage showcasing the wider cast a bit more as opposed to too many starship battles. Maybe a plot featuring Orions would be fun.
Another day.. and another show of creativity, and another thing for people, far less creative than those who put time and effort into “Making something”, to nit pick and rip to shreads… ah the life of being a “fan”
74 – Yep, I to enjoyed how we saw Kirk offer diplomacy… but I think buying the guy who has killed billions a beer, and every one sitting down for a nice chat about things.. maybe sretching it too far… lol
Bob Orci
I think more fans than you think would be up for a reinterpretation of Khan.
Look how much resistance there was when the idea was first mooted of a prequel and look at the success now.
Khan is one of Treks most Iconic characters, and I see no reason why he shouldn’t be used in this new movie. Doesn’t have to be a riff on TWOK. I can see the botany bay drifting into Klingon Space, where they join forces and spoiling for a fight – attack earth.
Montalban WAS Khan, doesnt mean someone else can’t own the role. Jack Nicholson WAS the joker, yet look how Heath Ledger ran with it and made it his own.
I think you should seriously consider using Khan.
It’s interesting. Wade through Superman or Batman message boards and no-one there is advocating a brand new villain. They all want Zod, The Riddler and Doomsday.
Is that because superhero properties are frequently re-tooled with new interpretations?
Oh, and I know some people think we should go down the “no baddie” route in the next movie – go back to exploring strange new worlds etc, but this is a big budget movie action adventure hollywood blockbuster movie!
I can’t think of a big budget action adventure hollywood blockbuster movie in the last 10 years that DIDN’T have some sort of bad guy or evil force that must be destroyed.
Better to go with an established baddie than a Shinzon, Ru-afo or Soran.
Using an established character gives a handle for the uninitiated too.
#30 “I really hate TWOK, and I am really tired of constantly hearing about it as if it’s the best movie EVER made.”
Totally agreed.
In regards to the Boborci topic – I would say a ‘PROVISIONAL no’ to a Khan revisit.
Well, hear me out for a sec Trekmovie gang – first let us take a moment to explore the last several Star Trek movie villians.
Nero (ST) – sought revenge against Spock\The Federation to channel his overwhelming sorrow and bitterness following the tragic events prior to the film (with some wonderfully operatic flair I might add).
Shinzon (STX) – sought revenge against all humanity for his cursed nature
Ru’afo (STIX) – sought revenge against the Ba’ku for expelling him from paradise
The Borg Queen (STVIII) – sought revenge against The Federation\Picard\Locutus after the events of ‘The Best of Both Worlds’.
That is a WHOLE damn lot of revenge.
We have to go all the way back to stories previous to 1994 – being Star Trek: Generations – to find an antagonist character that isn’t motivated by vengeance – Dr. Soran: motivated by desperation to the point of committing genocide, go back further and General Chang of Star Trek VI was motivated by fear of change. IMHO – I think a lot of the antipathy toward seeing a Khan redux comes from the notion of it being a Star Trek II (the MOTHER of all Star Trek revenge plots) redux specifically – which is most definitely a no-no.
While a Khan story equals insta-press, not to mention being instantly identifiable by mainstream audiences, Trek fans seeing another Khan\revenge plot may judged as being a bit too far into the realm of reinventing the wheel – hence my provision: no ‘Khan wants revenge’ plots.
The original series makes many references to Kirk being something of a young, obsessively-focused, over-achiever – much like Khan really. If we’re talking about Khan redux – bring it back to what Space Seed touched on and turn it on its side. I admit it would be quite enticing to see what would have happened if Khan’s rhetoric of glory and great dreams fell on the ears of a younger, less seasoned Captain Kirk. What might have happened between the two of them under different circumstances? I’m not talking about making Kirk, Khan, and a Pizza Place – I’m talking about exploring both the light and darkness in both characters in ways much like the temptation of Christ in Matthew Chapter 4 – an in-depth character contrast\analysis the 50 minute confines of the original series TV format wouldn’t allow for.
Provided you brought the characters together by alternate means, you could leave the plots of Space Seed and Wrath of Khan alone entirely.
Wouldn’t it be a wonderful tale of the accountability of leadership versus danger of the unbound human ego to see how these characters (who both share nigh-unbridled ambition as a motivator) tempt the best – and worst aspects in each other?
I gotta say, it sounds pretty exciting!
- 24th CRS!
What do we need this for?
Bob Orci any chance you can nudge JJ to do Superman and you to write it?
Also I’ve said before I don’t want Khan but..
We want Hanks
We want Hanks
We Want Hanks
What about Hanks as President of Starfleet?
Just to add if there is no way out and somehow we have to Khan can we not take 3 movies over it.
Please no Khan!
Come on Bob, you’re a good storyteller, give us something new, not the rehash of the old.
Hi Bob Orci.
Hmm, I’m very torn about a Khan Redux. On one level, he’s among the most magnetic characters in Star Trek, arguably the equivalent to the Joker to Kirk’s Batman. I’d love to see the Space Seed story again in some way shape or form, but there are a couple of things that hold me back.
One is that in Star Trek (2009) we’ve had Nero as Spock Prime’s version of ‘Khan’, so another revenge-driven loon (or seeing a loon getting set up to be driven to revenge) so soon might be pushing it a bit.
Also, the next film allows us to see a classic old-school Trek setup we haven’t seen with the TOS crew since the 1960s: the Enterprise in deep space, far away from the convenience of Starfleet, the Federation and familiar friends and foes, exploring a strange new world, being presented with a moral dilemma and coming away from it learning something. In amidst all that we can still have a badass villain, space battles, fist fights, Kirk sleeping with beautiful alien women and so on.
The beauty of the new Star Trek film is that it opens the door to so many new possibilities and it would seem a shame to return to the what’s been done before so quickly.
I’m not saying ***never*** feature Khan again or Project Genesis (arguably one of the greatest ethical dilemmas the Federation brought upon itself) or Lord Kruge. Maybe in a third or fourth film these sort of characters could be tackled.
But for the first ‘neo-Trek’ sequel, we could have a big budget story that could more or less stand alone and effectively fit into either Star Trek ‘universe’ telling an absolute classic-styled Trek tale.
Outside of that, maybe an animated series could ‘retell’ some of the old Trek stories in a ‘neo-Trek’ way, giving fans some backstory, while the movies concentrate on the big events.
Thanks for asking. :)
Boborci:
The problem with introducing Khan and using him in a film is you would have to fast forward the alternate timeline a LOT in order to make it work. Khan in ‘Space Seed’ was a baddy, sure, but he wasn’t hell bent on destroying Kirk until he’d been marooned on a dead planet for 20 years. Why would Khan have it out for Kirk at this point in the timeline? He’s still in cryogenic freeze– someone’s going to have to find him and wake him up first, which pretty well pins you into doing ‘Space Seed’, and even then the ruthless motivation just won’t be the same. Being driven to take over everything is one thing. Having watched your beloved wife die because you and your crew were dropped off in the middle of nowhere and left to stew for 20 years… that’s personal. That’s what made TWOK and ST09 work; the primary antagonists had a deep personal grudge at work.
Keep the idea on the back burner, but you’ve got plenty of time to play that card. ST09 was awesome– you opened the door well to rewriting, well, everything, because this universe hasn’t happened yet. That means there’s a whole new universe at your fingertips, with lots of new stories to tell. Furthermore, you’ve got a young cast to work with, and lots of time to tell the Khan later.
However, there is an element of this universe where the clock is ticking, and you’ve only got a limited time to take advantage of having that resource at your disposal. Leonard Nimoy as Spock Prime is alive and well in this timeframe. Mr. Nimoy’s not getting any younger. Another good meaty Spock/Spock Prime role would be excellent, if Mr. Nimoy is so inclined. If you did something with the energy ribbon/nexus from Generations, you’ve got a way to get Shatner in as Kirk Prime, possibly Whoopi Goldberg as Guinan, and Patrick Stewart if he’s at all interested. AND the entire new cast.
While it would be a huge smash when it shows up, Khan can (and to a certain degree, has to) wait.
@Bod Orci
I would rather like to see Mark Lenard’s romulan character from “BoT” again
This episode cries for a reinterpretation, since the character self speaks
of alternate realities:
“In a different reality, I could have called you friend.”
I would love the new universe to be that reality
@ 90. Odradek
Great idea! I’d even have Ben Cross play the Romulan Commander, just for the fun of it!
khan kill’s a knocked-up carol marcus, bones saves the baby, kirk seeks revenge, spock helps kirk conquer the darker side of himself, and kirk becomes a single dad in the end. khan is exiled to a prison world…
here we see in the alt universe a kirk that sought and failed revenge against khan, and a kirk that couldn’t run away from david (as he did in prime) , he has to take care of his baby boy.
__
bad fan-fic, i know. lolz, someone flame me
-92.. like it mate! now if we could just get Shat in there and Scot Bakula’s Archer… advising on his run in with the Augments….
Why do I get The feeling that You guys would Arrogantly attempt Kahn in the Sequel anyway, regardless of What you say you feel here Bob. All JJ would have to say is “Hey guys Ya Know If We try it from this way, I think we can pull it off!!” then you’d see all those stupid Entertainment Tonight reports like…
..And the Search is on for the Hunky Mc Hunkerson Latin actor guy to be the New Kahn in the Sequel to JJ Abrams “Hit” Star Trek, that’s due to start filming in the Summer…”the Iconic character Kahn will be sure to make lots of trouble for the New Crew Of the U.S.S Enterprise.”
……………….Look long story short just DON”T PUT KAHN IN THE NEXT ONE!!
I have to chime in with my favourite concept: Khan ending up as Kirk’s ally against a common enemy. Perhaps even Kirk helping him to set up a nice little Augments colony afterwards… on Ceti Alpha V, of course. :D
#92 – Well, your plot DOES have the advantage of steering away from the bad-guy-wants-revenge rut! XD
I DID like Nero though. As villains go, Eric Bana gave him the kind of emotional depth I could actually buy in to. I didn’t really need an extensive back story on him – Bana sold it to me on raw animus. Shinzon was so convoluted it was hard to identify with him on anything, Ru’afo was driven to genocide because his parents threw him out of the house when he was a kid (and if THAT’S all it takes to join the ranks of super-villainy, my teenage self WAS a slacker – I should have been blowing up planets), and The Borg Queen – for all of the menace of The Borg – came off as something of a cosmically jilted ex-girlfriend.
#90 – Speaking of fantasy remakes – being a huge fan of Where No Man Has Gone Before, I think my favorite TOS baddies are Gary Mitchell, Khan, and The Romulan Commander from BoT. Any one of them would be killer to get an alternate take on!
Runner-ups would be Trelane, Kang, and The Salt Vampire. They’re fun characters, but not big, nasty, heavy-hitters like the first three – after all – Trelane just a kid who wandered away from his parents for a while and got into trouble, Kang was unknowingly manipulated into fighting Kirk and ended up laughing it off later, and The Salt Vampire was just desperate for love and survival. The Salt Vampy is up here just out of the sheer creepiness of its disguises – plus The Man Trap is one of my top fave episodes.
- 24thCRS!
Bob:
Thanks for the chance to offer comment on the “Big K.” It can be done.
One element to keep is that he is from 1996. Flashback to the time period and show how he and his followers escape in the DY-100 cryo-ship from a secret base or something. In the case where canon has been killed by real life (Eugenics wars didn’t happen per se), it would be a nice nod for the fans.
“Space Seed’s” major flaw is that Kirk’s abandonment of a group of such historically significant people on an uninhabited planet would probably get him court-martialed. Write him and his followers a better fate.
And don’t forget about “his beloved wife,” Marla.
Boborci:
This is a no-brainer. Just re-envision “Space Seed” but with “Godfather II” style flashbacks to grand, epic scenes of the Eugenics Wars and Khan’s rise to power sprinkled throughout. Take Lt. Marla McGivers out, plug Carol Marcus in (she’s a molecular biologist aboard the ship who studies abiogenesis and RNA/DNA genetics — perhaps like McGivers, she knows about the Eugenics Wars and Khan). The Enterprise is studying a planet where life is emerging for the first time (in the Ceti Alpha system?). She and Kirk are falling in love with one another when they discover the Botany Bay nearby, but they try to conceal their love affair because he’s the Captain. After they revive Khan, Kirk and Carol have a falling out and she becomes obsessed and drawn to Khan. In the end, after Khan is defeated and killed (perhaps by Spock?), we learn that Carol is pregnant with Khan’s child(!) and she must decide (with input from Kirk) whether to abort the fetus or raise it as their own. This would turn both “Space Seed” and “Wrath of Khan” on their heads, so to speak and give Kirk a son (or daughter) that is totally out of left field and unexpected.
One caveat: You must approach Nicholas Meyer (Nimoy-style) and have him write the Khan flashbacks. This will insulate you from fanboy “wrath” and provide a lot of great dialogue for Khan. You could also bookend the film with William Shatner as Kirk dealing with the recent death of Carol and perhaps his estrangement from his mixed-heritage son/daughter.
Bob, I know it’s been said here many times already but I’m saying it again:
NO KHAN PLEASE :)
New adventures, new villians. Or something NO Trek movie has ever done before (except for TMP to some extent) and that is: To seek out new life and new civilisations, boldy go where no one has gone before ;-)
Bob,
Clearly, much of the prima facie opposition to doing another Khan film comes from our (and your) love of the original. In the same way that some people, including I have to say myself, were quite concerned, originally, with the recasting and the rebooting of the TOS era. But you’ve won almost all the Trekkies over; and a great many mainstream fans, too. So take this into consideration when weighing the opposition. It all depends on story. Do you have a fantastic script (perhaps in nascent form) utilizing Khan? Do you have some good new ideas on how to introduce the character, his hatred of Kirk, and his revenge? As other posters have said, this story is extensive; consequently, it may need to feature as a sub-plot in the next Star Trek film, before being the main plot in the subsequent Trek film. Remember, even TWOK had a whole episode of back-story for the film. And, whilst you could understand TWOK without Space Seed, the episode really was helpful in explaining the back-story and antagonism between Khan and Kirk. That cannot be rushed!
The alternative universe that you’ve created permits you enormous creative freedom. You can write any story you like. There are hardly any canon restrictions. If you really want to revisit Khan, one advantage is that you don’t have to mention the Eugenics Wars of the 1990s. Star Trek is meant to be our future; but, of course, these things never happened. It’s the same with the ‘Third World War’, which also bugs me. But do you think that you can improve on the original Khan story? I really would be surprised, pleasantly of course, if you could. Considering the place this film has in the hearts of many fans, you would be setting yourself up for a big fall, potentially, if this film is not as good as the original; or worse, disappointing. On the other hand, as a great man once said:
Risk is our business, gentlemen; that’s why we’re aboard her [the Enterprise].
Also, remember that the attraction of a Khan story may only extend to the Trekkies. Mainstream fans may not know about Khan; so they may not particularly care if he’s in the next film or not. In short, Khan may not be a crowd pleaser, for either Trekkies or mainstream fans: Khan may not be a money-maker. It all depends on story…
PS., I trust that there would be no legal problems regarding the re-use of ‘Khan’, ‘the Genesis Device’, ‘the Botany Bay’, ‘Ceti Alpha V’, etc? Harve Bennett was partly responsible for the TWOK story (really it was Nicholas Meyer) and he threatened to sue over an academy plot, didn’t he? If Khan take-two uses all these elements, Bennett may not be happy. A Khan movie that didn’t make use of these elements (bar the character Khan) would certainly be interesting. But perhaps it would not be as good as the original.
Boborci,
In my opinion, a loose remake of Star Trek V: The Final Frontier would work better than a ‘Khan’ remake. I always thought that movie had strong themes and a memorable villain (Sybok) but ultimately came short of its potential.
However Star Trek II, for me, is pretty much Trek Movie Perfection (TMP!) :P
Anyway, you could expand on the idea of the ‘devil’ entity fooling Sybok by giving him these healing powers. And the idea of humans kicking the devil’s ass is cool. You could also deal with McCoy’s father’s death, which was a powerful scene in the original film.
Thanks for reading.
hi boborci – heres my 2 cents……one part of me says ‘yes! please do Khan for the sequel!’…and another says ‘no – its been done – please do something else’…however this is KHHHHHAAAAANN!! we’re talking about…the most popular Trek villian (yes even more than the Klingons) and this new series of films *IS* a reboot (yeah i know its connected to canon and all but its first and foremost a reboot at the end of the day and the sequel should have no time travel etc linking it to previous incarnations – like the way First Contact was TNGs first ’solo’ movie) so theres no real reason Khan cant be in it and he hasnt been exactly overused (one episode, one movie and a mention in the ‘Enterprise’ Augments episodes) – and as for rebooting classic villians from two or more decades ago, well…The Dark Knights joker didnt turn out too bad did it. (and for those saying ‘how do you recast Khan after Ricardo?!’…they didnt do to badly with TOS cast)
if you do khan for the entire movie…have another Federation ship pick up the Botany Bay earlier than it was discovered in Space Seed (new timeline and all)…Khan and Co take it over like Reliant (maybe all that could happen off screen, i dunno whatd work best for the movie)…Kirk and the Ent sent to investigate by Admiral A list star (Hanks or Ford etc)…attacked, Federation ship v Federation ship carnage, mass slaughters, killings, feriocious tempers, etc etc….all plays out differently to Space Seed and TWOK (but with the odd similarity/homages)…no Genesis – something else this time…maybe throw Carol Marcus in there for good measure…and as lots have been saying – the ‘No Country For Old Men’ guy as Khan….regarding Khans origins – maybe have a flash back scene or even a lenghy prologue showing him created/grow up/take over earth in the 1990s? (probably have to change that – or not mention the date and just refer to it as earths past…interesting dilema of how to handel the 1990s issue with canon etc)
either all that or (as someone mentioned in a previous thread) maybe start the movie with the end of the last adventure (a la Bond/Indy) and have Kirk defeating Khan? (hmmm..maybe not as thatd waste khan)….or maybe (again as someone mentioned in this thread) do something else like klingons for ‘2′ (as we’ve already had a Khan like villian in Nero…plus klingons havent really been used properly in a movie since Trek VI) but set Khan up for the villian for Star Trek ‘3′ (something similar to the way the joker was set up at the end of Batman Begins)
wow i wrote more than i intended there…good luck with the sequel whatever it is anyway
I hate remakes of classics
DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT remake Khan
Khan is a classic and a remake would be injustice to this great movie.
Find your own niche with this new alternate universe Trek, don’t rip off the proper universe Trek.
Find your own direction and do exploring of the galaxy.
It’s interesting that people keep saying that a Khan story would have to start at the exact same point as it did in the TOS timeline/storyline.
For a moment, let’s work off the premise that the new movie did: The attack on the Kelvin by the Narada launched an entirely new series of events from that point forward. Thus, we can assume that the discovery of the Botany Bay plays out differently than it had in TOS.
Now…imagine Kirk and crew in a long-fought battle with the Klingons – and at a moment of near-defeat – the leader of the Klingon ship is revealed to be Khan – who had been found years earlier by a Klingon crew. Or Romulans. Or the Borg. The possibilities are endless.
Khan doesn’t have to have a personal beef with Kirk to be a strong character. But I agree – a new interpretation of Khan should include demonstrations of both his physical and intellectual prowess. They could take a few notes from the presentation of the augments from ENT.
Khan has tremendous potential. The story possibilities are endless. He’s probably the only Star Trek villain who has name recognition amongst mainstream audiences – so it’s a sure bet to draw a large audience – which is the key to getting more and more trek to enjoy. Isn’t that what we all really want?
‘Crew’ is great! Byrne is GOD (…but he doesn’t need a starship!!!)
Crew is what the ‘ENTERPRISE’ tv series should’ve been! A true ‘year-one’ approach to the enterprise NCC-1701!!!
As far as TWOK comic? I will wait for the trade. Looks good, though…
104 – yes indeed! why would a Federation ship have to find the BB in the alt timeline…Khan v Klingons v Federation…
Call it “Star Trek: Khanage” starring Pine, Quinto, Urban, Greenwood etc with Javier Barhem as Khan, Reese Witherspoon as Carol Marcus (plus Hanks or Ford etc cameos for the overseas box office)
105 – i dont think there will be a trade pb for just Khan…the trade will include all 6 films
Bob Orci,
I think a fresh look at Khan could play out in a really dynamic way. One thing I’ve thought about recently is that now that the timeline has changed, you have a great opportunity to see old characters faced with new choices. Example, instead of the USS Enterprise finding the SS Botany Bay, perhaps someone else could discover it…
A great villian match-up might be Khan and Klingon’s (Kang?) in that some of their motivations aren’t too far apart. There is also an opportunity to introduce Kirk to a young Carol Marcus. Tying the Klingons/Khan to Kirk/Marcus before TWOK sets up the story for Kirk’s later years regarding Khan, his dislike of Klingon’s (which is obviously exacerbated in TSFS), and his son David.
Obvious, just like with your first film, you’ll have naysayers, but I think it would be really cool to see Khan brought out in a new light ( a la Joke) and mixed with some familiar foes.
Boborci,
You know what, I believe that Khan would work. Space Seed was a first season episode (thus a good option at this point), completely self contained. The thing about finding a bunch of super humans in suspended animation since the 20th century, the whole back-story, all of that was pretty cool, and very “Star Trek”. Considering that Khan probably became iconic with the movie, not the original episode, and that most people only know the character from there (ST II), I think it would be very nice to finally show his origins on the big screen. Besides, the third act in the original episode is kind of weak, so that is your change to reinvent the story and make it a lot more epic.
I must confess that initially my opinion was to leave Khan for the 3rd movie, perhaps use the Klingons in the next one, since they still need to be introduced to the new audience. But then I completely understand that in order to get us a 3rd movie, the 2nd one needs to be a success, and I believe Khan would do that happen. I saw go for it and make ST 2011 a monster hit.
BobOrci, thanks for taking the time out for feedback.
I like Khan, but I very firmly believe that this new incarnation of Trek should have a NEW story with some familiar elements, say the Gorn or Tholians. I also feel the epic nature of the movie should be maintained within this format. What we have never seen in the movies is a great “quest” storyline (like STNG’s The Chase), or even a political/war story such as STNG’s “Redemption”, or DS9’s Dominion arc. I realize you couldn’t go all-out in a 2 hr movie but these are elements I think would go over well.
RAMA
Any movie with Khan would not be a remake of Wrath. It would be a different story entirely, starting with Khan’s release from the Botany Bay. History was changed by the destruction of the Kelvin, an incident which may have changed the patrol routes of Starfleet vessels and led to an earlier encounter with the BB. Khan may be out there already, biding his time, building his forces, allying with Klingons or Orions. He may have been killed by a lucky Starfleet officer, and Joachim will show up as the primary protagonist leading a group of genetically engineered supermen in their quest for revenge against the Earth that exiled them. There’s a million different ways the story could go from here, but there’s no reason to not explore every possibility.
@41
There’s a reason the Kennedy assassination story never got the greenlight…How it ends can never be a satisfactory resolution. The whole story is a red herring.
Coincidentally, I was just rereading Star Trek Movie Memories by The Shat over the weekend. Very interesting book…not because of the anecdotes but because of all the politics going on behind the scenes. It’s a miracle Star Trek ever made it to the big screen. And there was some really interesting insight into just who Gene Roddenberry really was and what talents he did (or didn’t) bring to the table. Sounds like STTMP was a debacle that almost left the Enterprise in mothballs for good…and Roddenberry’s role in future Trek films GREATLY diminished.
Nice preview. I guess it’s easier to do an comic book adaptation in the era of DVDs and 25 years after the movie has come out. Look like the artist just drew frames from the movie. It looks great…don’t get me wrong. But it’s closer to the old photostory books they used to sell before we had VCRs.
(And amazingly, The Shat’s hairpiece looks fake even in drawings!)
Khan has been a rumored potential future storyline. Back when the TOS ‘Space Seed’ episode aired Ricardo Montalban did an amazing job portraying the East Indian character of Khan Noonien Singh. Of course, back then there was a short supply of talented Indian actors in the U.S. If you guys chose to go the Khan route, would you consider casting an Indian actor for the part? One neat thing I hope you guys would kick around is a major bollywood star. Amitabh Bachchan is a name well known throughout most of Asia and would increase viewers of Trek immensely throughout the entire region. His presence in advertisements alone in India is profound itself. The man is simply a legend in Asia.
Check out this video with him in it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9POtcSGa6gQ
Doesn’t that just scream Khan to you? Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amitabh_Bacchan
It could be Trek’s Heath Ledger to the Joker.
Back to the simple question though, Are you guys open to consider Indian actors? I think it would work out better than attempting to recast Ricardo Montalban.
1st: The comics look nice, i like the artwork. Maybe i’ll pick up a trade paper back if made available.
2nd: RE Khan in new movies. I say yes, if done correctly. Unfortunately the entire Eugenics War backstory MUST be changed. In order to connect and resinate with todays audience it must be based on our current society and possible use of genetics, not a fictional 1996 history. Keep the spirit and intellegince of Khan and his gang, but the backstory has to be re-written. The big problem is what would be Khans motivations, how would his actions threaten not only our crew, but the rest of the galaxy, and finally the sequel has to deal with the 10,000 Vulcan refugees and might not be able to focus properly on Khan and gang.
In short, re-doing Space Seed or even TWOK, NO!!
Re-inventing Khan in a purposeful and organic way that it feels like he belongs in this new universe and has a dramatic impact (especially in regards to the Vulcans) then YES!
Putting Khan in Star Trek XII would require re-writing “Space Seed,” and since the last film proved they are not scared of doing something original and new, rather than a rewrite of something old, I doubt Khan will appear.
Besides, who could be as over-the-top as Ricardo Montalban without being clownish?
Hi Bob,
Thank you for asking us fans about our thoughts and opinons on the matter. Transformers have megatron/fallen/unicron, Batman has Joker, Riddler and the Joker, Superman has Lex Luther. I think the problem you and everyone face in hesistation is because everyone forgets this is not a remake of st2/khan but rather the same canon villian just with a different actor and story/choices. If you wrap Khan in a story that makes us cry, laugh, cheer and hold our breath and create that sense of wonder and epic scale, it’ll work. Perhaps even have Khan join starfleet and take the Kubisharu Maru test and he turns his back on the Federation due to his greed like in Kung Fu Panda, steals cloaking device from the Klingons and starts a war between the Federation and the Klingons and have Khan join the Klingons to duel it out against Kirk and Crew…
Cheers,
Bob,
“We’re all with you, sir. But, consider this. We are free. We have a ship, and the means to go where we will.”
I would agree with some of the suggestions above — do something new for the second film, with a slick segue into turning the third (knock on wood) into a Khan blockbuster. The free marketing from the media and fandom, while absolutely not a reason to include Khan in a script, would be tremendous. In my opinion, a well-done Khan film, distinct from the original and yet familiar, would be the coup de grace in the Trek trinity that you and the rest of the Supreme Court have embarked upon.
I would sincerely love to see your take on Khan with this new cast. I was extremely impressed with the new film, and I can’t remember the last time I’ve been so thrilled with new Star Trek. I would need to invent new superlative adjectives to describe how epic such a film could be.
That said, I’d have my reservations about plot repetition. While Khan and Nero couldn’t be more different, there would be certain topical similarities that the naysayers and media would lock on to: both are inextricably associated with revenge (thanks to Khan’s backstory from TWOK); both are physically superior to humanity; both are known for beating Kirk up with impunity; both are singular villains with a slightly more rational sidekick.
I say do something completely new — not revenge, not the single villain in a single powerful vessel. Go explore and find something new. Throw Kor or Kang in there with some Klingons for added peril.
And then, maybe, as the film is closing, our heroes find an old-style Earth sleeper ship, pitted and battered. On the hull, in barely-visible lettering, read the words “Botany Bay.”
No Khan remakes PLEASE!! Would someone just please explore the galaxy? Surely there must be some imagination left for exploring uncharted space? A story that is fun and cool and engaging and inspires people to grow up to be astronauts, doctors and engineers.
I hated the current movie for all the recycling of tired plot elements but I could really get behind a movie that actually told a NEW story about a mission of the Enterprise that didn’t have a crazed revenge seeking villain or a big space thing about to destroy the Earth. I want to hear Spock say “No Federation ship has been out this far” and then take us into a voyage of true discovery.
Mssrs Orci & Kurtzman – you’ve already screwed continuity to enable a bunch of pretty young cadets to replace an originally experienced TOS crew in their 30’s/40’s, who didn’t get where they were overnight. Irrepairable damage has been done to that credibility now as far as I’m concerned, so I trust you have more than the slightest idea how to make this “alternate reality” work. Make sure you concentrate on how the 5 year mission of exploration is established. How in the name of the Great Bird, a twenty-something could be put in charge of that I’m frankly not sure about. Pissed off a few Admirals maybe, so pack him off to the outer limits with the distinct possibility he’ll never be seen or heard from again. Sure throw in some Romulan or Klingon skirmishes, with their ships lurking around the corner, but while your crafting the script keep in mind one thing. Namely the original opening speech about strange new worlds and seeking out new life and new civilizations… Stick with that and forget about retreading villains with revenge fixations. :(
Spock dies at the end of the comic.
Regarding the opinion of whether to use Khan, I say, don’t bother. A lot of people are already pissed about the whole wiping out of canon thing. The Khan story worked in part because of the great acting on all sides, and in part because of the circumstances behind the character.
First, let’s face it, just like you did with the Enterprise, you would want to modernize the sets, and would never rebuild the Botany Bay to match the 1960s version. The costumes would be different too, and you would get grief over that.
You would get grief if the wrong people were in the wrong spots in the cabin or if Khan had a different ribbon in his hair.
Khan is not the Joker, who was some recurring villain for Batman. He is not Lex Luthor, or Sinestro, or some other bad guy who keeps coming back.
He’s not the Borg or the Klingons. He was a guy who had a specific story, and that story was told–brilliantly.
It was a two part story–
1. The guy is a physically enhanced dictator with a group of enhanced people who believed they were superior in every way, and were looking for a world to rule. Khan craved power and wanted to be a king. In Space Seed, Kirk gave him that chance at the end, and all was well, despite the whole taking over the ship thing.
2. Due to an unforeseeable accident, the planet became virtually uninhabitable. No one bothered to even check on Khan and no one noticed, and Khan, especially after losing his wife, was only kept alive by the hatred of Kirk, who he blamed for everything. The character went from a conqueror/king to Captain Ahab looking for Moby Dick.
Star Trek II was an incredible story and an unbelievable followup to Space Seed.
But there’s no need for more Khan.
In Space Seed, we saw Kirk outsmart the genius, and even kick his ass with Khan killing props. In Star Trek II, we saw that Kirk’s experience in ship to ship combat once again beat the superior intellect.
And we saw the price Kirk paid for that victory–a scene that is impossible to top.
The ramifications of TWOK were felt in the next 2 movies.
You can’t do better with Khan, and you can only do worse.
I’d much rather see a followup to this movie that involves you coming up with a way to bring in Kirk Prime than a Khan movie. I don’t expect you to actually give Shatner the true swan song to the character he deserves, especially given the last movie, but I would love to see Shatner back.
Absolutely though, please, do not bother with Khan. Create your own villain/dilemma. Use the Klingons. Something cool, but Khan’s story has been told.
I say go with the Klingons in some way, shape or form. As others have said, the possibilities are endless here.
*If not the Klingons, some other villain known to existing Trek fans, but made so much more cutting-edge and sinister, said villain(s) would appeal to the masses. * Again, endless possibilities.
That said, if Khan were to reappear, I’d be the last one to complain.
It’s all about the writing, and Mr. Orci and Co. have proved themselves (in my view), as more than capable to spin another excellent Trek story.
Bob,
I have no doubt that Khan could be incorporated into a great, exciting new story. A Khan-led Cardassian fleet. Or Khan establishing a new world with his original followers and others who have joined them — should Starfleet intervene, believing that Khan will eventually try to establish an empire. (Ye ole prime directive story). Lots of possibilities.
But for #2 I’d like the bulk of the story to be fresh. Just peppered with a few TOS winks, similar to #1. From a biz perspective, save Khan for #3 or #4, to goose the franchise in case it falters. Keeping Khan for a later episode would also (I hope) further entice you, Alex, and Damon to remain involved beyond #2!
Cheers. And thanks again for Star Trek 2009.
In a day and age where every film that comes out is a sequel, prequel, reboot, remake, adaptation or retrofit of a previous work, can we at least have an original villain in the next film?
I promise you all, doing Khan will only ignite an inferno in the Star Trek community that could never be put out, even if you dumped that water world Paris got court martialed for interfering with back in VOY “Thirty Days”.
You’re not going to like it. Half the Trek community hates this film, and they did what everyone’s been screaming for for years – they got Nimoy back under contract to be in the movie, they fired Rick Berman, and there was no mention of an emotion chip, the Nexus, or Reman clones.
Just imagine what will happen if a bad TWOK remake comes out. It will taint the original film. Trillions of Trekkies will now be unable to watch it without being reminded of the abortion of a film they made from this masterpiece.
And if it’s a success, it’ll be like MASH, The Thing, or The Office. The new version will be lauded by untold droves of critics, fans, and casual viewers alike. But the originals that inspired these new-age masterpieces of their day… they’ll wind up forgotten and overlooked, foot notes in bar trivia games.
Maybe I exaggerate… but if it’s bad or if it’s good, but I’ll wager 400 Quatloos on three inevitable outcomes that a “Wrath of Khan” remake/reboot/reimagining/attempt to get even more regular people to the theater will bring:
1) A large, vocal number of the fans will hate it, though the remaining half will love it.
2) NO ONE — not JJ Abrams, Martin Scorcese, the older, non-Lucas corrupted, pre-CGI Steven Spielberg, or the reanimated corpse of Orson Welles — can, could would, or will ever do Nicholas Meyer’s original 1982 film, and that precious, irreplacable nostalgia surrounding the first time (or first 300 times) you watched it, due justice to satisfy it’s being remade.
3) William Tiberius Shatner is GUARANTEED to cry for another 18 months, privately but mostly publicly, if he’s not written into the plot some how.
But I’m just one person. I was able to forgive the coincidence that fate placed Spock-Prime on a snowy Delta Vega, then later Sylar-Spock marooned Kirk there, as it is likely one of the few uninhabited, Class M planets retardedly close to Vulcan to maroon a person or two on, be it out of revenge or haste.
It would be nice if the characters in this comic book remotely resembled the characters that appeared in the film. Saavik was never that ugly. Pass on TWOK comic book.
I really like Yang Ong’s art!
Hi, (#39) Bob Orci-
We’re not worthy! We’re not worthy! We’re not worthy!
…OK, we apparently are! :-)
I think that it’s way cool that you consider our sometimes fractious opinions to be important! And I have a bazillion ideas- probably better for a TV or miniseries than another movie.
But- I don’t want to see Khan again. Seriously. I have already seen Khan. Rolling him out again- even in this fractured new ‘verse- would let the air out of the tires of this wonderful thing you’ve created.
And darn it- I don’t want to see that happen. Sure, I know you and your partners could pull it off- but why do that when we have a young punk Kirk just waiting to massively screw something up, and have a marvelous genuine adult in the guise of Pike (as well as Spock!) ready to school him? If you want to bring some badasses into the picture, why not use an alt.universe version of the Borg- and have them start attacking and assimilating the Klingons and/or Romulans (or the remaining Vulcans)? The Borg would be almost like a biological or even a nano- virus- chewing its way through these civilizations, infecting not only people, but also the networked systems and machinery they use.
Then- it gets into the FleetNet, maybe through an outpost or something that is monitoring the growing chaos.
You all could have tons of fun with this. Kirk messes up, the crew use their individual skills and specialties to help pull his butt (and the Federation) out of the fire. All the hoops and doodles would make for another kickass ride!
Hmm…
Guess I’ll weigh in as well.
I’m in the no big K camp for a multitude of reasons, the biggest being that we just came out of a revenge seeking antagonist kind of story. I know that this would be Space Seed Redux, but, essentially, even in SS, Khan is seeking revenge against a planet/people that deposed him. He wants to return to earth to rule, obviously revenge plays a little bit into that desire.
Anyway, I don’t believe the new crew is “seasoned” enough to take on Khan–in his space seed form or otherwise. I would say let them get another adventure under their belt, get a little more experience and MAYBE we’ll see about Khan after that. I don’t think the new Kirk is ready to have sweeping debates, historical, political, philosophical or otherwise with a mind like Khan’s. Unless something serious happens between this movie and the next (years?), I just don’t see the new Kirk growing or learning enough to have those conversations–conversations I would really want to see/hear, and I think Orci and co. could write to great effect (this is what ST is all about, and I think Orci is quite conscious of this and respectful of it) . The new Spock as well isn’t very seasoned, and is a bit compromised at the moment so I don’t think he could add weight to those debates either. I think the only character ready is McCoy–but isn’t he always ready for a good [moral] debate?
So, my vote, if Bob is still reading, is to MAYBE revisit Khan in the third movie and leave this second one for growing, exploring and learning so that, when the confrontation comes with Khan, Kirk and Co. are ready to live up to the great dialogue I’m sure you’re ready to write for them.
I like the idea stated by another poster about Kirk being relegated to the fringes for pissing people off with his flying up the promotional ladder. Maybe co-opt that idea–gives you a good reason why they stumble upon new challenges and unfamiliar faces (not a TOS episode).
-P
YES enterprise fires on Regula 1
That’s how Kirk rolled.
Get a girl pregnant. Blow her up. ROFL
98 / 104
I think a combination of those ideas would make a great movie.
121.
Nice.
Agree with most of your points. My Khan gauge is moving more towards No Khan at all. If we do HAVE to see him though, save it for movie 3, if you must. I do like your points on why we shouldn’t see him at all, though.
-P
Why are they drawing an ugly Saavik? Bleh. Glad I passed on this one.
I think the Klingons can wait till ST 2013. Klingons are a whole empire, a movie showing them would have a very large scope, larger than Khan with graver consequences too.
BTW, why do people keep mentioning latino actors for the role of Khan. Khan was supposed to be Indian, wasn’t him?
59 Boborci
Regarding commercials, the fantastic reception of this first film is probably enough to keep the coffers full for #2 domestically. A part in #2 for a star with some international clout may be a better way to go to try to improve the international take next time around. I’m not sure that the presence of Khan would necessarily entice folks who are new to the franchise.
Bullet points:
1) This is the artwork??? Erk.
2) As much as I welcome a comic adaptation of TWOK, isn’t it simply wrong – given the scenario – to show exterior views of the ’starship’ (i.e., simulator, no real ship) since none of that sort of thing was really going on??? Bad…
One more small point: I don’t think Khan should just be dropped into a just mediocre story solely for the purposes of marketing. Mainstream folks knowing his name doesn’t a good movie make. I think marketing potential should be thought of AFTER the merits of the actual story. I think it’s backwards logic to think of it FIRST. It should be “hey, I’ve got this great idea about having Khan in the next movie…it’s SO good we HAVE to do it.” “AND we could sell it easily to mainstream audiences since they have a familiarity with that character.” “Hey, you’re right!”
If we follow the idea of thinking about “marketability” first, then we might as well have Khan making out with the borg queen while riding a humpback whale while being chased by William Shatner, smoking a denny crane cigar, on a flight he booked on Priceline.com.
Wait, that sounds awesome.
-P
I think I read someone else suggesting Kor/Koloth/Kang.
THAT is a much better idea, because it brings in the Klingons, and I think with Koloth, there was some history (as implied by Trouble with Tribbles). However, we didn’t SEE Kirk’s first meeting with Koloth.
That gives you the Klingons AND a familiar adversary. Just make sure you watch the Tribbles episode a few times to get an idea of what Koloth is like if you go that route.
If you use Klingons, consider either making them the ridgeless kind (as seen on the original show pre TMP).
Unfortunately, your predecessors really made things difficult by first, making a lame joke about it in a great episode of DS9 (Trials and Tribbleations), and then following it with a horrific episode of Enterprise that actually tried to explain the ridgeless Klingons.
If they were smarter, they would have just left the thing alone and we could live with the Roddenberry intention that the ridges were the result of not having a budget in the 1960s and having that budget in the movies. The idea was that Klingons always had those ridges.
Unfortunately, that was blown. So that’s another thing for you guys to deal with. The ridges.
#22:
For starters, no I didn’t read through all 134 posts to see if I am repeating anything.
There is no sense in which artistic license can be reasonably invoked here. It’s been clear as day since that movie came out: it was a SIMULATION. No suich views were available or needed. It’s nonsense. If you wanted to push the artistic license excuse then show these sorts of shots on a background computer screen replaying the simulation from an exterior POV or something while the characters are flailng themselves about in the SIMULATOR. Even though something like that was never shown in the movie either, THAT is the sort of artistic license I can deal with, one that dovetails with the situation at hand.
I don’t care if IS a comic book, whomever had that comment about arson. This is point blank dumb.
Hi again, Bob-
I’m polling my own very modest braincloud at my LJ about the Khan sequel. You’re welcome to check it out.
boborci,
I would respectfully suggest that we *not* see Khan in a sequel. I think TWOK stands out among the Trek movies and, even in our new alternate timeline, would be perceived as some type of remake. I think the new Trek creative crew has done a masterful job of creating for themselves a blank screen (the image of a freshly-shaken Etch-A-Sketch is inescapable), and I think it serves as a great opportunity to tell new stories.
A foundation story about the resurrection/recolonization of Vulcan would be one at the heart of the “blank slate” motif. I recall the possibilities of a JFK assassination retelling as an early movie concept story. I think that kind of story has to be done with *extreme* care, however. I’m probably not a good person to ask about a JFK story, because I’m firmly in the lone-gunman camp. Oliver Stone has created sufficient cinematic fiction around that incident to suit me.
There is also a possibility of exploring a story involving Kirk’s relationship with Carol Marcus, and the later birth of his son, David, which would obviously be an adjunct to material established in TWoK, but only in a very thumbnail sense.
I would also respectfully advise that any film involving *any* kind of villain must engender some sort of adversity that the audience cares about. No one really cared about Shinzon in Nemesis. No one really cared about the 60’s throwback community or the bad guys in Insurrection. You’ve already hit a home run with Nero, because if anything is recurring about him is that people wanted to know *more* about him. That meant the audience found him a compelling villain, which created good, sound conflict, and that created good drama to couple with the great action.
One possible new concept story could involve Kirk and crew encountering an early incarnation of the Borg, or perhaps the Cardassians, who for my money were the only compelling villains out of the Next Generation era. I think the creative use for Klingons in an adverse way is very limited in the TNG era; however, you have the blank slate that suggests that future could be different.
Finally, a very wild concept story that might provide a means to incorporate some element of a “Kirk Prime” story could involve the “new” Enterprise’s discovery of the “old” Enterprise in some sort of rift, borrowing a notion from the TOS episode “The Tholian Web,” and discovering Kirk as an old man aboard her, with the “new” Enterprise finding a way to send it back to its proper timeline. It could also assuage some notions about the fact that the “prime” timeline still exists, with “Shatner Kirk” still in existence….
All that said, I’m confident that the next Trek movie will be just as gangbusters as this one.
Hope these notions make sense. Many thanks.
-ATVNPF, aka Dave
And please, no Khan in the next movie. I loved this new movie, but if they’re going to rehash old scripts I am in no way, shape or form interested in putting up with it.
Ok, so if JJ does a TWOK reboot, which Spock should get killed? Spock Prime or New Spock?
What’s the point of a line-by-line adaptation? Show us what we haven’t seen. Give us some extra-canonical nuggets. Use an artist that adds texture or pov. This is useless. The covers are ugly.
What exactly does, “Written by Andy Schmidt” mean in this situation? He’s a frieken stenographer.
Bob, I worked at Paramount for over 12 years, and have been a fan longer than that. re: Khan, my best suggestion would be to either lead in or out of the story with him should you choose to tread there. Setting him up for the 3rd film might be the best choice structurally, giving audiences something to look forward to and giving you and the supreme court latitude to make this 2nd film primarily an original adventure, and hopefully not one dependent on a singular villian, but a mission like that presented in IV, and a problem (relevant, big enough and relatable to a mass audience) to solve, but letting the fans and audience focus on our crew and seeing them in action.
Thanks for being so open, and if all else fails, ignore every post including my own and do your own thing! You guys have done a superb job bringing the franchise back to life. Best regards, Russell Meyers
I’d like to see Khan re-done eventually, but I think it’s a little too soon.
Personally, I think if the “Supreme Court” was going to retread a TOS character/episode, the most logical choice at this point would be Gary Mitchell/WNMHGB. I can see how this character would be compelling on the big screen. He could be a Big, Omnipotent Baddie, but a tragic, sympathetic character at the same time (I would assume they would have to retcon the friendship between Kirk & Mitchell @ SF Academy with some additional flashback scenes). There would also be a much needed “gee-whiz, exploring space” factor with Enterprise being out at the Galactic Barrier, actually showing them doing some space exploration (when was the last time a Trek movie did that?). The strain on Kirk & Spock’s still-fledgling partnership would be interesting. If they threw some new elements into the story (one word : Klingons), it could be a lot of fun. Perhaps after Gary’s transformation has begun, the Klingons show up (there’s your space battle), and Gary uses his new powers to do something really creepy & evil to them, tipping off Spock that something is wrong. There is a lot of Kirk/Spock conflict like in the orginal ep, but this shows them cementing their relationship by the end. The other thing I like about using the WNMHGB idea is that it shows a certain synergy with the Prime Universe, where the same things are happening, but coming out differently much of the time. Instead of Kirk killing Gary in the end, there could be a new twist, perhaps with Gary escaping.
I know, it’s fanwank, but hey, I’m a fan, so what do you expect?
bobocri – Please no K. It’s a new universe with new adventures. If I want to see Khan I’ll pop in the DVD. I’ve seen ST09 five times so far, but if ST11 is a retread it’ll be difficult to see it even just once.
Dazzle us with something we haven’t seen before.
124:
Telly:
“Half the Trek community hates this film.”
Which half? On this board, most people are thrilled with it.
“Just imagine what will happen if a bad TWOK remake comes out”
Bob says in #39 that they are not considering making a remake of the film.
Why do you people keep mentioning “The Wrath of Khan remake” and “revenge”? Boborci said in his first post: “knowing that it would not be a remake of the original movie…”. This is the original 5 years mission period we are talking about, isn’t it? A new Khan movie would be more like Space Seed redux, nothing to do with revenge.
Wikipedia has a nice article about Khan, including some interesting info on early drafts of Space Seed…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Noonien_Singh
Javier Bardem as a villain – that’s a great idea.
BUT NOT AS KHAN.
Hi Mr. Orci,
Thanks for the great film you guys have made!
I’ve gotten a strong sense from Star Trek fans around the internet that Khan isn’t desired for a sequel. And I agree with them.
Personally, I’m not saying that something cool couldn’t be done with the character at some point in this movie series, but to me, Star Trek is much bigger than Khan. There’s a lot of great stuff that can be done with the Star Trek universe without the need to reintroduce him.
I also don’t believe that Khan is needed to make the sequel a strong success from a box office standpoint. The new movie is generating a lot of great new and YOUNG fans who don’t care about Wrath of Khan in the least (as good as it was).
There are also potential pitfalls with doing another Khan movie. For one, it is widely considered the best film, so you may be setting yourselves up for being unfavourably compared with a sci-fi classic, i.e. no matter HOW good your new movie is, they may say…well it was no Wrath of Khan. To me that’s not an advantageous position to potentially put yourselves in.
Second, a lot of what made Khan work was Ricardo Montalban himself. I’m not saying that another actor couldn’t do a great job, but Montalban was something quite special and it wasn’t just him that made it work, but his interaction with the equally scenery chewing Shatner.
Have you ever considered other great villains from Trek lore? There’s a lot to choose from that are lesser known, but could be reinvented into something new and fresh.
But, whatever you guys decide, I wish you good luck!
Trekkiedude
David Carradine died. RIP
Da waath of con? Did he get rejuvenated as well in the Genesis wave? So, they could conceivably use a younger actor to portray Montelban/Khan as a young man and get away with it. But what would be his motivation?
Maybe 1-hit wonder Ricco Suave’…I’m too sexy for my ceti eels..my ceti eels, it’s what is my appeal!……on the cat walk!
For a sequel to work, you need to build on what you saw fit to do to the Star Trek universe in the first place. Deal with the consquences of the destruction of its most iconic world, Vulcan… or else frankly, what was the point of doing that in the first place? Then there’s a 23rd Century in which everybody is now aware of what the Romulans look like. I got the feeling the attack on the U.S.S. Kelvin opened up a whole pandora’s box with that race during the ensuing years. Again something I didn’t like at all, but with the damage done, you can’t ignore it or leave it as is. :(
You need to the next villain be a Romulan again… But not a blue collar worker with a grudge like Nero, but a real tactician from the Empire. Why not go for an anti-hero whose best intentions go wrong? That could be old Spock now he’s trapped in this place. He could be keen to avoid the endless years of conflict between the Federation and the Romulans and help get the refugee Vulcans a homeland into the bargain.
The artist pretty completely misses the point of the KM *simulation* by showing EXT. SPACE points of view of the Enterprise engaged in combat with Klingon vessels. None of this, of course, is “actually” happening; the encounter is taking place only within the confines of the bridge simulator at the Academy.
In the film, the opening sequence aboard the bridge was directed in a static fashion with subdued pyrotechnics and sound effects compared to what would be used later during the movie during the “real” combat sequences. There’s a deliberate contrast, there, which is lost in the comics adaptation.
OK, can I make a request? Can some of you who keep referring to Khan as “the big K” please stop?
The big K, to many of us, is K-Mart. And that is definitely NOT something I want to be thinking about when I think of TWOK.
I think it might have also been a burger at Burger King at some point.
Put my vote down for no re-visiting TOS stories. What the heck did you remove yourselves from TOS if you were just going to retell stories from the original series? This should be about new adventures. I also would vote that there be no madmen bent on revenge. How about coming up with an inventive conflict? Really test your skills as writers and do an exploration story that is exciting and captures the imagination without having to rely on the same things that the previous 11 movies did for antagonists?
A Khan movie could work if it fit into a larger story…get the Klingons involved…make it a search for Khan story where the Klingons are seeking Khan as well for his advanced genes etc…blah blah blah!!!…only Kirk gets to Khan first and then all hell breaks loose!!
Did I just write “previous ‘11′ movies”? Wow. I should tell you what the extra movie was about so you could write it.
I think I missed something. Has Abrams even suggested “re-booting” Wrath of Khan? I’d thought there was just a possibility of introducing young Khan as a character. The events of WOK can’t very well occur until everyone’s older & grayer, anyway.
Anyway, I doubt JJ’s quite that cocky. ST:II remains, in my book and many people’s, the best Trek film ever. It never gets old.
While TWOK is a very entertaining movie in its own right, I’ve always had problems with the concept behind the movie because to my way of thinking, it really flew in the face of what the writers of the original Space Seed episode envisioned.
Kirk’s resolution to the problem of what to do with Khan and his people was very true to Trek’s idealism: put them on an untamed planet and give them a chance to reach their potential. That old show was called “Space Seed” for a reason: the idea that the crew of the Enterprise had planted this seed on an alien world and who knew what would come of it in a 100 or even a 1000 years. It was very much in keeping with Roddenberry’s optimistic viewpoint that even these egotistical supermen could evolve into something better if their energies could be properly harnessed.
Then Harve Bennett comes along, and blows that whole idea to hell. He gave us a very entertaining action movie, one that I’ve enjoyed watching many times. But if you stop to think about what he did, it really betrayed the core idea behind the original episode.
I think this progression from Space Seed to TWOK gives us a lesson in why it might not be such an easy or sure thing to revisit Khan for this next movie. In pursuit of reaching a wider audience, the thoughtful debate of ideals and philosophies from the show gave way to more visceral action in the movie. Kirk’s idealistic decision to spare Khan was replaced by a violent space battle. And the ultimate solution was simply to blow it all up. If you’re going to do a Khan story, then I think you have to present the character as he was in Space Seed: a noble but flawed conqueror who operated according his own moral code. If you just give us a one note borderline madman like TWOK (Ricardo Montalban’s amazing performance really saves the part; some of his lines could have sounded ridiculous if they were uttered by someone else) it will be a real disservice to the character.
Personally I hope the new cast gets a chance to find their own voice and tell their own stories. While it would be fun to see characters from TOS reenvisioned and popping up here and there, I would hope that this new cast can experience their own new, original adventures. After reviving a basically dead franchise, I think they’ve earned that right. I also think it would feel more organic to introduce new antagonists specifically written to fit into this new template for Trek than to try to retrofit classic villains from the TV show (especially someone as well realized as Khan) into what by practicality has to be a more action-oriented version of Trek to stay relevant with as wide an audience as possible going forward.
My guess is that the whole series folds after 3 films anyway, so if they wait too long to do Khan, they’ll be no Khan. One thing that’s not going to happen is a nice little story about a bunch of explorers in space. Big summer movies need big summer stakes and no studio is going to finance a 100 million dollar picture about mapping protostars.
#30—”I really hate TWOK, and I am really tired of constantly hearing about it as if it’s the best movie EVER made.”
No—just the best Star Trek B-movie ever made (IMO). That’s not the same thing.
re#88: “One is that in Star Trek (2009) we’ve had Nero as Spock Prime’s version of ‘Khan’, so another revenge-driven loon (or seeing a loon getting set up to be driven to revenge) so soon might be pushing it a bit.”
Agreed, and wholeheartedly. I don’t want another “madman bent on the destruction of Earth/Federation/the universe”.
Take a look at the current TNG Reboot going on in the novel series — after a decent start (Death in Winter, which would have made a pretty good TNG ep), we fell back in to, you guessed it, the Borg. The Borg are now part of every story in the TNG reboot line. I won’t be buying any more of the new novels.
(And on that note; NO BORG IN THE NEW TIMELINE YET, please.)
I go back and think to myself; what did I love about TOS? I’m reminded of what Fry said in a really good ep of FUTURAMA (which everyone should see if they haven’t), when Fry encounters Nimoy’s head, and tries to get him to admit he was on STAR TREK (a show that had been outlawed by the year 3000):
“You know, “STAR TREK”? 79 episodes, maybe a dozen good ones?”
http://www.tv.com/where-no-fan-has-gone-before/episode/137264/summary.html
Love that episode. But a good basis for the next STAR TREK would be taking elements of those “dozen good ones” and weaving them in — maybe as side stories, maybe as main story.
What I remember most about Trek is the humor, the friendship, and the general hope that the show put forth. I didn’t start watching it ’til reruns in the 70s (b 19 Aug 1966, so I was a bit young for first run) but I remember watching the crew — black, white, Asian, Russian, etc — all work together for a greater good and for each other. That to me was the crux of what Gene’s STAR TREK taught. It was a message of hope in the best sense of the word.
And, fwiw, more Karl Urban. Criminally underused in the film; he was spot-on as McCoy. One of the best eps, THE THOLIAN WEB, really brought the Spock/McCoy banter to the forefront. Watch that one again, Bob.
By far one of my favorite Kirk/Spock moments, though, was just a moment; it was the one with Methuselah (sp?), where Kirk falls for a woman who turns out to be an android (of course, eh?) and, when Kirk and Methu start fighting over her, it breaks her heart and kills her. At the end, Kirk is in his quarters, talking to Spock, berating himself for his behavior, closing his eyes and putting his head down on the desk. Spock approaches his friend, begins a mind meld and whispers, simply: “Forget.”
That to me is the Kirk/Spock friendship.
119. ChristopherPike – June 4, 2009 Mssrs Orci & Kurtzman – you’ve already screwed continuity to enable a bunch of pretty young cadets to replace an originally experienced TOS crew in their 30’s/40’s, who didn’t get where they were overnight.
I’m glad I wasn’t the only one offended by the High School Musical in Space vibe. I can cope with a bunch of cadets operating alongside a few more experienced crew but I’m not sure that promoting a cadet to the captain of the Federation’s flagship for what essentially amounted to a security operation wasn’t stretching credibility further than they needed to. If Spock were promoted to Captain and Kirk his first officer it would have been more logical, given his efforts in Spock Prime’s vessel but even this would have been largely because Spock was a full commander instead of a lieutenant alongside Number One’s Lt-commander.
They should have ended the filn with Kirk as a Lt Commander and Pike’s first officer and Spock promoted to Lt-commander. Then in film 2, advance the timeline and promote Kirk to captain – it would have made far more sense.
No to Khan. Yes to Klingons. Yes to Carol. Yes, yes, YES… to Rand.
One thing to add: I liked the new cast quite a bit. I was actually feeling some regret that this *wasn’t* going to be a weekly series.
Agreement with #162/Paul:
Yes to Klingons.
Yes to Rand.
Yes to Carol (more of a maybe for me).
Yes to Christine Chapel.
And where’s Number One? It would be a fun little quirk to get an actress to play *both* Christine Chapel and Number One, eh?
Mr Orci,
First let me say I really did enjoy STAR TREK (2009). A good film with only one or two fine points that I found to be a bit off. I won’t get into them here. You asked for a well-reasoned answer to the question of the big K.
My answer would be no. At least, not yet. You folks have gone out of your way to create a new universe where anything can happen. Granted, in the past, writers have not had the best of luck in coming up with new protagonists for the STAR TREK universe (Son’a, Remans, Soran), but in my opinion, the STAR TREK universe itself had gotten poisoned beyond it’s core enjoyability (then again, I’m a TOS fan and those were TNG movies).
In my opinion, Khan was a good villain… probably the best villain in the TOS universe, but why was that? The original episode painted him as a dictator who was like the scorpion, doing what he does. He was memorable because he actually tried and succeeded to take over the ship. The movie is what truly elevated him because of the idea of vegnegnce. The MOVIE was good because it explored OUR characters the way we liked them. Humor mixed with action mixed with a pinch of morality mixed with some sorrow at the end and the possible promise of a brighter future.
The movie was great with Khan but not necessarily because of Khan. As such, I think you might be able to come up with a better villain. I almost challenge you to do so. Simply because you wiped the slate clean anyway.
IF, and only if, there was a need to redo any of the original stories, the most dynamic for me is THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE. With current technology we can open the scope of this story up tremendously. Both galactically (showing the devastation that the machine causes) and technically (showing the ship/ships that it destroys).
Or, if I may humbly suggest, to combine it with elements of THE CORBOMITE MANEUVER. You’re no longer beholden to any particular story. Much like Cirque Du Soleil’s LOVE and what they did to the Beatles music with George Martin, you have the ability to go back, and literally re-mix these stories to create better and possibly newer stories.
I don’t know that this necessarily helps answer your question. But I will say this. The only real way to do a Khan movie would be to combine SPACE SEED and TWOK into one movie, which won’t work for a few reasons. One because the time jumping from their first meeting to a few years later will feel too much like the movie you guys just made, and mostly because one of the better underlying stories of TWOK was the story that these people were getting older.
#39(Bob)—I’m all for something completely original, but the story should involve the Enterprise crew actually doing their primary job (exploring strange new worlds, seeking out new life, etc.).
Or perhaps we can see the Federation having to deal with a problem it inadvertently created due to its own short-sided policies in the past. Let’s see the characters have a perspective-altering experience (I smell a humanistic McCoy moment).
I know you guys can do it.
I WAS excited about this comic till seeing the preview–how many errors already on what little we have seen? Kirk-Captain, Sulu-nav seat, outside Enterprise view for a sim, Spock giving an incorrect Live Long and Prosper, poor artwork. What a shame!
PS–NO updated Khan movie–the TV episode and movie are classics, leave them alone!
Dear Bob,
Whatever you do, I’d rather see a Khan-like human villain than a Klingon doing the campy Klingon thing.
It’s no coincidence that Trek’s most memorable bad guy is from Earth, like us. He’s driven by recognizable human flaws. It was a wise decision in Trek ‘09 to put the kibosh on the alien rituals and council meetings that had taken over the TV franchise and scared off the public.
Nero was fine, Eric Bana and Clifton Collins, Jr. turned in good performances. But any Klingon or Romulan or Borg heavy automatically brings with them this baggage of being an guy in makeup on a bridge whose “alien-ness” invariably means looking like some sort of goth club…and then asking the audience to treat them as believable in the same way human beings are.
Khan never had this problem.
Sorry if this is already posted, didn’t see it:
Back when the TOS ‘Space Seed’ episode aired Ricardo Montalban did an amazing job portraying the East Indian character of Khan Noonien Singh. Of course, back then there was a short supply of talented Indian actors in the U.S. If you guys chose to go the Khan route, would you consider casting an Indian actor for the part?
One neat thing I hope you guys would kick around is a major bollywood star. Amitabh Bachchan is a name well known throughout most of Asia and would increase viewers of Trek immensely throughout the entire region. His presence in advertisements alone in India is profound itself. The man is simply a legend in Asia.
Check out this video with him in it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9POtcSGa6gQ
Doesn’t that just scream Khan to you? Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amitabh_Bacchan
It could be Trek’s Heath Ledger to the Joker.
Back to the simple question though, Are you guys open to consider Indian actors? I think it would work out better than attempting to recast Ricardo Montalban.
@ Boborci
No Khan. No evil villain seeking for revenge. I’d like to see some good sci-fi mistery, wrapped with the inevitable sfx and fireworks and action sequences that a blockbuster movie cannot avoid. I’m ok with space battles. Trek movies have to deal with crysis situations, I know that. But please, give me a mistery that is not strictly tied to the evil villain of the week.
Why would anyone ever read that when they can just watch the movie.
Boborci
Not sure i’m entirely keen on Khan in the sequel, but if you guys can make it work then I have faith in you. Javier Bardem would be freakin excellent as Khan.
But I would love to see the Klingons really well done, with a really sinister but charming commander, like Kor was in Errand of Mercy. Would love to see the new Kirk and Spock going toe to toe with the Klingons.
Failing that you could always bring back the Gorn haha!
And Please Please Please give Urban some big chunks of Meat in the sequel He made the new movie for me.
Mr. Orci,
I think you should combine “Space Seed” with “The Trouble with Tribbles”, and costar Jack Black as Cyrano Jones and Jackie Chan as Joachim. :)
[ducks]
But seriously, like has already been said, I don’t think you can do a TWOK-style Khan because he doesn’t have the motive for revenge yet. (Although it would be interesting if Kirk and Khan became friends in this timeline…)
All I ask is NO Borg, haha.
How about the Iconions?
ps. – loved the movie! thanks!
Hey Bob Orci. If you read this i think the next one should have the Doomsday Machine. A lot of questions need to be answard. Where did it come from and who made it. Spock did say it came from outside our Galaxy but thats all we know. I did read the Novel that had it as a weapon to be used against the Borg. But would love to see it on the big screen and have Kirk and Spock track down the ones who made it. Theres so much that can be done with a great story like that. We would have great action and suspense and im sure all kinds of surprises. Just think about it.
Boborci:
How about the next movie opening with the end of Space Seed; Khan and company in court, then dropped off on Ceti Alpha V.
Afterwards, Kirk and crew continue to seek out new life and new civilizations. Of course they run into a “situation” they cannot resolve easily and come to the conclusion that in order to solve said “situation”, they need to retrieve Khan and company for their assistance. Khan helps Kirk save the day! New and old at the same time……
The “seeking out new worlds” bit that some are requesting is a rare thing in Star Trek. Indeed, if William Shatner hadn’t mentioned it during the opening credits, we wouldn’t know they were on an exploratory mission short of a few references (e.g. “Corbomite Maneuver.”).
Usually, the crew encountered the strange and the new via distress calls, while on the way to somewhere specific, or hidden behind the mundane. “The Apple” comes to mind as a “strange new world” story where the Federation wishes to secure mining rights. Go to hell, Prime Directive.
Indeed, in “Measure of a Man,” Data is considered a “a new life form” bereft of rights. Years ago in real life, it could have been a woman, a black man, or an immigrant.
The ‘exploration’ motif is a metaphor for humanity’s instinctive desire to grow beyond our current boundaries, both individually and as a race. If Bob and the guys can make a good story out of that, they’d be respecting Trek 100%.
I do love TWOK and have seen that movie more then any other movie. I just do not think a reboot of Khan would be good. I do think the Doomsday machine updated and it’s origins and give us all kinds of surprises would be awesome. But stay away from the Ultimate computer or anything like that. Nomad is still out there and doing it’s thing but would not make for a good movie. I hope you guys stay away from time travel and such.
Sick of Khan.
Let’s move on!!
Agree with those who point out a Khan-based story would not be another “revenge” story, like Nero’s.
And after seeing how this latest movie went, it’s easy to see it wouldn’t be nearly as “simple” or ship-bound a story as Space Seed. I’m sure our intrepid writers would throw in lots of complications to keep things exciting. They stumble across Khan but at the worst possible time, so not only have to outsmart/beat him but under extraordinarily difficult circumstances. As I said above, it would be cool.
For my part, I love the idea of revisiting all TOS was to me, but with a budget, great (and respectful) writing, and this amazing new spin and remarkable cast!
I think Khan should be STIII ( new Trek ) … just think of the ending of the next one ( similar to Batman Begins ) … ship seen just off sensors, names Botany Bay …. end credits … Fans go crazy with 50% anticipation 50% rage …
Still, as most people would admit Ricardo ( RIP :( ) was Khan and you would need someone kick ass presence wise to fill those boots. But Khan gave a great human story in a sci-fi universe …
Q would be fun as would Doomsday … however Spocks Brain redux would be the best :P
Why is Denny Crane in TWH comics? :-D
OK, I’m saying it again until it stops:
Stop calling Khan “the big K”. That is what K-Mart is called.
#176—”The “seeking out new worlds” bit that some are requesting is a rare thing in Star Trek.”
I agree, but there is no reason that a story cannot begin with the Enterprise crew doing just that—at least documenting some previously unknown phenomena in space or charting/observing newly discovered worlds, etc.
I just think it wouldn’t hurt to see a minute and a half or so of the Enterprise functioning as a vessel of exploration and scientific discovery before some epic crisis inevitably diverts their attention.
Oh, and if you do a “Khan” movie, be prepared to be accused of not having any original ideas. For it shall surely rain down upon you.
I don’t normally buy adaptations of movies–I’d rather see them again with that money–but I will buy this one. Talk about a stroll down memory lane.
By the way, I saw TWOK 13 times in the theater. That’s because the theater in the next town made Tuesday Dollar Day, and that’s where you could find me then.
I was sitting in the theater watching the heart-breaking death of Spock when a woman in the next row turned to another woman and said: “He should be throwing up. That’s one of the symptoms of radiation poisoning.”
I leaned forward and quietly said: “Vulcans never vomit.”
Bob Orci
Once again thanks for reading all our posts, instead of Khan create an enemy that makes Khan look like a baby who has lost their rattle.
Create a situation where Kirk and co face two enemies perhaps one physical being and an alien entity and Kirk must use his brawn on one and Spock must use his knowledge to defeat the other.
Make a problem that makes Khan look pale in comparison, make enemies that will be remembered as greater problems then Khan ever was.
Dear Bob,
Please don’t listen to some of these people. Rehashing old stories would not be a good thing to do. Let your creativity go wild and give us some new stories. If people want to see Khan, they can just go to their DVD’s and watch him.
How about whales in Star Trek II(A)?
Kidding! I’m kidding.
Seriously, it’s probably best to let a sequel stand on its own. IF…and that’s a big IF…you’re going to look for inspiration from what’s come before, don’t use something from the 11 films. There are 78 other episodes.
How about:
Kor
Kang
Ron Tracy
Doomsday Machine/Matt Decker
M-5
The Kelvins
Gary Mitchell
The Talosians
Space Hippies
Kidding! I’m kidding on that last one.
Bob,
Here’s the thing. You and Alex and JJ have all talked about how the current film is character-driven, and it is. Even those of us who abhor some of the plotting and the abuse of science, enjoyed the characters immensely.
In TWOK, the character story is about Kirk turning 50, meeting the son he never knew, and confronting his past choices.
You may be able to retell that story someday, but not in the next movie.
#180 Great joke about Spocks Brain. We could have Charlie X or Gary Mitchell become a God or The Children shall lead. But do not take a bite out of the apple.Leave Elan of Troyus at home and Stay away from the Jones and Mudds. But let that be your last Battlefield could be good with Loki on the Run. Or have the Romulan Commander do his thing or her Thing. Depends on which one. But be on a Salt free diet and let Dr Corby to his Reserch. But be ready for the Errand of Mercy as Tommorow is Yesterday or you may have return of the Archons in this side of paradise but watch out for the savage curten and go for a visit to the City on the edge of forever but be carefull that witch survives and look out for spectere of the gun. But take some shoreleave and leave your troubles with tribbles there.Work on the Ultimate Computer and have it take on Nomad and then we can Mourn for Adonis. iI thats not enough you can always go where no man has gone before to the cage and then the meneriage and of corse have the good Dr give you a shot for the immunity syndrom and then you havet to avoid the Thoilian web and stay away from the Enterprise Incident or you may be tried for a court marshel if you do not avoid the deadly years and a piece of the action.
Make Gary Mitchell the Captain of another Starship Class ship on a mission with Kirk,who dies in the line of duty. Gary Lockwood could cameo as an Admiral.
Yes! Please have the next film fileld with Space Hippies! C’mon, show Charles Napier some luv!
#192 Hippies. Hey are you a Klingon Herbert.
#189—In fairness, reintroducing Khan and remaking TWOK are two very different things.
Perhaps you should revisit the actual request (from post #39):
“…we humbly ask for your best opinions on whether or not we should see (Khan) in a sequel (knowing that it would not be a remake of the original movie, but continuing on in this Universe where things can be different).”
Such an endeavor would more likely be a revisitation of “Space Seed” (with a twist), not TWOK.
Khan could be revived by another ship which discovers the SS Botany Bay adrift in space, comandeer that ship (as he once did the Enterprise in the prime timeline), attempt to assert his people’s “superiority” in the 23rd Century, and ultimately be faced down by James T. Kirk and the starship Enterprise.
I’m not advocating that as a sequel, but that’s more along the lines of what’s being talked about here.
It goes without saying that it would be a far different film than Nick Meyer’s 1982 classic B-movie.
We reach!
no, please, Mr. Orci. Aside from everything else, I cannot for the life of me imagine anybody else in the role. I know, I know, young minds, fresh ideas.. Star Trek 2009… yes, I know. still… I am experiencing a complete knee-jerk reaction to this one.
hey, look, there’s a poll going on TrekBBS about this (i.e., if you haven’t seen it already :p)
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=95200
#39 … I say YES, Bob.
I like the idea that has been put forth here about Khan appearing briefly in 2 (maybe being discovered and revived), but not becoming a major force until 3. Finding Khan in the Botany Bay would get just as many audience cheers as the appearance of the Joker card in Batman Begins; everyone in the audience would leave the theater excited for part 3!
As I said in another thread, Khan last appeared on screen almost 30 years ago. Since then there have been 9 movies and something like 700 hours of tv Trek. Khan is a classic character who didn’t appear nearly as many times as Sarek, Q, the Borg, etc, etc. He has only appeared twice, and everyone remembers him fondly, even non-Trekkies. I want to see him, so do all my “mainstream” friends who enjoyed ST 09.
And a new Kor or Kang would be great too. :-)
Hi Bob!
Thanks for asking!
I am not sure to be honest about Khan in XII, but there was one thing that used to really light my imagination when watching “Space Seed” :
Spock’s little speech about returning to see what crop had sprung from the seeds they had sown that day…
Lots of possibility there.
Bob,
Dear Bob,
Mr. Orci,
Hey Bob,
I love you Bob,
Sir Bob,
GOOD LORD people! Give the man a break. He posts around the forty comment mark and the rest of the comments are do this, do that, I love you Bob!
They gave us a great movie and I am sure the next one will be even better. Relax and enjoy the fact that we aren’t quite as nerdy as we were before.
Bask in the glow boys, bask in the glow.
Mr. Orci,
I love that you want to include our input and it’s one of the great things the Internet enables. I also want to say I really enjoyed the movie despite all my concerns. Once I accepted the new time-line and understand the way it keeps Trek’s core and frees you up as writers I’m ready for more.
To answer your question: I would rather not see a remake of “Space Seed” or TWOK. As you say, new universe, anything can happen. But, TWOK has been done and has A LOT of back-story. I believe too much would be required to make it work in a single movie. And much more of the crew friendship needs to be established/developed, especially if the events were to unfold, more or less, as they did before.
If I may suggest: We have yet to see any Klingons in this time-line. Perhaps you could pursue the Kirk/Koloth rivalry that was planned for the 4th season of TOS? Harry Mudd would be fun to see too. And now that there is a relationship between Spock and Uhura, what happens if Christine Chapel becomes interested in Spock? Or maybe T’Pring survived the destruction of Vulcan? A different take on “Amok Time” would be interesting and allow us to see how the Vulcan race is adapting to its situation.
More Kirk/Spock/McCoy scenes that show the continued development of “The Big Three” would be a joy to watch. You guys really seem to understand and know how to write these characters!
Lastly, please let Scotty redesign the engineering section! I just don’t get pipes and such in a 23rd century warp-driven starship. Now that the warp cores were blown into space along with the other damage the Enterprise took, you have a good reason for the redesign…..
All IMHO…
FYI Scifi channel is having a Land of the Lost marathon today….Surprisingly Walter Koenig has written episodes, Herman Zimmerman, David Gerrald, are listed on the credits…lots of tos names involved with this Sid and Marty Kroft Series….interesting….
201. Jim Nightshade…
TSK TSK
we are soon supposed to be calling the channel “Syfy” lets not confuse anyone
hee hee
Worst Name Evar
Mr. Orci:
With this new movie, you purposely positioned yourselves to be able to move forward in a new direction which I thought you did very well. I’m a long time fan and I thought the movie was awesome, done with affection and respect to what Star Trek is.
Bringing characters like Chapel and Rand, for example, into the next movie is one thing. But I, for one, would not like to see you retread Khan, Prime Kirk, or anything else that’s already been done. Another time-travel movie bringing Kirk back would be cheesy now.
Boldy Go! You’ve earned it. Regardless of the next plot, remember the heart and remember the characters and relationships and you’ll be fine.
@194
The backstory to explain Khan, for non-fans, could be easily handled as a classified briefing for Kirk’s benefit.
“Captain. The following briefing materials about the Eugenics conflicts and the individual Khan Noonien Singh have been classified since ____ (date)… and…” and there you go.
BOB ORCI
Regarding Khan in sequel:
I’ve been pondering this for a while now. I think it would certainly be interesting taking a new spin on the Khan character. It is risky though. You’d have to have the perfect actor in the part that also has at least some resemblance to Montalban and everything would have to be handled very carefully. I have mixed feelings, but I think that if done right, it would be very cool.
I’ve actually thought of an interesting plot. Let me just put it this way: You’ve got older Spock in this universe, the same Spock that encountered Khan in the original timeline. Also, Spock has mind melded with Kirk as well. To the interesting part: Old Spock knows that Khan is responsible for his own death, but in this universe, there is no Vulcan and therefore no way to restore Spock to his life after death, assuming that he will even die in the first place because of the timeline change. Knowing this, the logical thing for Kirk to do would be to kill Khan instead of marooning him on Ceti Alpha V, preventing Spock’s eventual death. But maybe trying to prevent Spock from dying could put others in jeopardy of death as well. Hmmmm…
Then again you could not do Khan at all and take the safe route. Of course what’s life with out a little risk involved?
Take it for what you will. I think there is some other cool stuff that could be included in this as well. For instance, Gary Mitchell, the prime directive, the Gorn, the Tholians, the Klingons, Carol Marcus, and even David Marcus. There’s a long list of things.
Hope that I was helpful.
@99 – He did ask us for input.
and I am totally basking – they will do an awesome job with XII…
oops – I meant @199
oh, I am basking alright… no question about it. he asked, though, and he shall receive.
Mr. Orci,
I really enjoyed this year’s film because it broke new ground instead of revisiting what we’ve already seen. The third movie might be the time to start introducing more elements from the original series, but my feeling is that the second movie should offer fresh new enemies and plot elements.
You guys did a great job with ST09. You gave us a TON of winks and nods to what came before, but you still made it your own. So please keep up the good work! Don’t give us Khan, or any of the known Klingon foes… we’ve been there and done that. Instead… just boldly go where no screenwriter has gone before!
Since we’re on all this talk of fantasy bad-guy remakes – Kang is one of fave TOS guest characters. Has anyone here seen (or heard i guess) Michael Ansara’s (Kang) work as Mr. Freeze on Batman: The Animated Series? That guy seriously has one of the awesomest voices ever – I’d listen to him read the phonebook! XD
- 24thCRS!
I should also add that regarding the production design, many here are 100% opposed to the Enterprise’s “beer gut”. I actually liked it to the degree that it made the innards look functional and real (sort of). HOWEVER, if I understand correctly, there were designs created for the Engineering section before they found it to be too expensive and went the brewery route. So my suggestion is that they build this set as the “main” engine room, but also use the brewery to film other parts of the Enterprise’s bowels. Put simply, I vote half and half. That way you’ll satisfy the supporters of both.
can we leave Star Trek 1.0 lay now. ST 11 wasa nice send off.
And I’m hearing horrible rumors that they might bring Khan Back for ST 12.
Please, Adonai, no
#39: I vote no Khan, and while we’re at it, no villain. Give us a threat that means more than scenery-chewing and speechifying.
As a side note – it’s really interesting to read about the 50\50-ish fan split on Khan as a sequel heavy-hitter. Even MORE interesting is to read about how averse a lot of the fans are about more revenge plots – I touched on that waaay back in comment #83 – and it looks like it just might be the best thing to take away from this whole k-razy thread.
Ooooh – as a interesting challenge – and I do like feedback – I’d like to take a sec to challenge the whole “Boohoo, the Enterprise doesn’t seek out new life or new civilization no more” perspective that I’m seeing, just for the sake of putting a different angle on things.
I submit that the characters in ST09 WERE in fact exploring a new civilization – the alternate timeline.
That’s right folks – THE UNIVERSE was the new civilization! XD
I dunno, there’s always the chance that the argument could be a weak one, but I thought I’d throw that angle into the mix seeing as that I haven’t seen anyone really take things from that side.
After all, who ever said you needed latex on your forehead to qualify as being a new lifeform, eh? :P
- 24thCRS!
Mr Orci:
Please don’t do Khan again.
Space seed was a good episide, TWOK was a pretty good film..no disrespect intended but what could you add to it? Let’s explore some strange new worlds, not revisit old ones.
I don’t think Star Trek has ever been done to its full potential. The episodes of the classic series that really had me glued to the set as a kid were the ones that blew your mind a little – in those days, going back and changing the past, meeting aliens who wanted you to think they were gods, or whole cultures that modelled themselves on gangster era Chicago because they got the idea from a book… these were fresh and exciting ideas to mass TV audiences in the 60s. They’re a little tired now but it’s a big universe… let’s find some fresh science fiction ideas that do justice to a 21st century audience – an audience that is used to getting its head round new and exciting ideas on a daily basis in the real world but is so seldom challenged to do so in its entertainment.
Let’s get out there and do what the damn series always promised but so seldom did – explore strange new words,seek out new life and new civilizations, boldly go where no man has gone before. There’s the challenge you face – find an idea that will blow the audience’s mind and excite them once again with the thought that space is huge and full of things we could never imagine, but which we will have to learn to deal with if we want to go out there and grow up as a species – and we will, because we’re up to it and because humans can be great when we decide to be.
Please don’t turn down that challenge and that opportunity because some fans think it would be way cool to do Khan again. That would be such a copout.
@214 and, really, everyone else :-)
As with most prequels or redos, ST09 did the right thing. The film ENDED with “Space… the final frontier…” etc.
This film wasn’t REALLY about exploring new life and new civilizations, though I do like your rationale from an audience perspective. It was about US exploring this new “civilization” as it were.
The original series did it’s fair share of exploration, though more times than not they found higher-level beings who felt we weren’t mature enough to share their toys or thought we needed a beat down (with the possible exception of THE CORBOMITE MANEUVER).
An exploration into the unknown isn’t a bad idea. First encounters are OK, though may actually be better suited to a TV episode than a full-length feature.
TMP did it right, but also proved that it wasn’t viable for a feature film. We spent 2 hours staring wide-eyed at the unknown (which was too long to stare, in my humble opinion), and the pay-off just couldn’t… well, pay off.
193 – Not I! However I work in a building with a bunch of Herberts.
Yes, Kang would be a great villain!
TWOK novel – best novelization ever, enhanced the film story beautifully.
This new comic here – for completists only. And is it just me, or doesn’t Kirk (in the last panel shown) look like Sid James, the knobbly-nosed guy from the “Carry on …” series?
Obviously thee are many who are absolutely no questions asked dead set opposed to having Khan back again. I understand there feelings, but it would be foolish to not consider all options. Originally I was completely opposed to seeing Khan again until I started thinking about how that might be done, which brought about some interesting story ideas. Besides, I doubt ST12 will be the last Trek film. Perhaps do something new and different for ST12 and Khan in ST13 or vise versa? I think its safe to assume that there will be two more movies. But I know that these guys like to focus on one movie at a time. Hmmm… well, its a tough one. I just don’t know.
#197—-”I like the idea that has been put forth here about Khan appearing briefly in 2 (maybe being discovered and revived), but not becoming a major force until 3. ”
If the character of Khan is to be revisited at all, I think that’s a good way to do it. I’m not sure how such ‘foreshadowing’ towards a third installment should be placed within the film, but it is a good concept.
I say Tom Hanks (not a cameo, but a real “guest role”) and some Klingons in the 2nd film, and if we have to revisit KHAAAAAAAN! in the 3rd, so be it.
A nice twist would be that the SS Botany Bay is discovered by a ship other than the Enterprise, and that vessel’s crew is not so successful in preventing Khan’s attempt to comandeer it…although I’m sure what such a story would have to offer besides a ship-to-ship battle, perhaps one that ends in a pitched fight between Kirk and Khan (without the poorly disguised stunt guy or the plastic thingy from “Space Seed”).
The story has to have more than that, IMO, so perhaps it could continue the broader storyline of the resettling the Vulcans, Spock’s struggles, etc, etc.
But I definitely think the 2nd film should be a diversion from the epic villain type. I would rather see something else there.
ATTENTION!!!
Good, now that you are listening;
May I please direct you’re attention to post #205. I would appreciate some feedback.
The other strength of a “Space Seed” type story is that we could have a villain with mad plans to take over the Enterprise, instead of a villain out for revenge.
The crew’s too young for anyone not from the future to want revenge on them. I think we could afford to reverse the Shinzon-ization of Trek, where every bad guy has a personal grudge against the captain of the ship.
Nevertheless I always love the moment that a crazy alien captain recognizes the USS Enterprise, the “Federation battle cruiser.”
@222
Without getting too into the weeds here, let’s take the simple route.
Spock’s death resulted from a very specific set of circumstances which are not guaranteed here… including, but not limited to:
1) The state of the Enterprise at that point in the fight in the Mutara Nebula (i.e. the warp drive not working)
2) The fact that they were even in the Nebula to begin with (outside the nebula, the ship would have had shields AND sensors and the fight would have gone a bit differently)
3) The trainee crew (which was only there due to the time in which the story took place in the Enterprise’s history)
4) Jim Kirk and Carol Marcus having a son (which is also not guaranteed in this timeline) who helped his mother develop Genesis to begin with… (which then leads to)
5) The U.S.S. Reliant being sent to Ceti Alpha V (VI) to find a test site for Genesis and finding Khan to begin with.
My point is, sorry to say, I think it’s too nebulous (no pun intended) for Spock Prime to really consider it much of a threat given his analysis of the situation.
Also, it could be said that even without Vulcan, the Fal Tor Pan could still be performed. Though it does raise the question of where do Vulcans go during Pon Farr…
I say “no” for celebrities. They cost too much money that can be better spent on sets and FX. Besides, ST 2009 proved that we don’t need them. ST can be successful with fairly unknown but good actors…
Remember when the original actors for both TOS and TNG started to ask so much money that each movie looked cheaper than the previous installment, even though it had a bigger budged? So IMHO keep the celebrities away! :)
I think the operators of this website should start a thread where we can make suggestions for classic Trek episodes we’d like to see remade in the new reality and who we think should play the non-regular characters from that episode. I’ll start:
City on the Edge of Forever
Megan Fox as Edith Keeler
224. Captain Dunsel
Thanks for the feedback. You have some good points.
The question still remains whether Khan should be revisited or not. I’m leaning more towards no for now. Maybe in ST13, but I think something new for ST12 would be more acceptable, unless of course the writers have come up with some crazy good way to bring him back.
226 – CJS,
“Megan Fox as Edith Keeler”
It’s a joke, right?…
Please no more take over the ship stories! That’s the most done to death plot of all. Surely the next movie could do something different, that’s the whole point of this “alternate timeline” isn’t it?
#214: “[...] that the characters in ST09 WERE in fact exploring a new civilization – the alternate timeline.”
The _audience_ gets a new one, sure. The _characters_ already lived there, and haven’t explored it yet (unless “trying a new bar in Iowa*” or “visiting a remote outpost” counts as exploring).
* And I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a new bar to Kirk :)
I guess Spock Prime at one point explored the ice a bit, but we didn’t get to see that.
222:
STAR TREK
Kirk: “Hi, Spock! Did your older self join the Vulcan settlers?”
Spock: “Yes, Jim. But before he left, he gave me a list for of ‘79 things to avoid.’
Kirk looks over the list.
Kirk: “Hmm…No beaming in an ion storm….Don’t go with Spock during Pon Farr…Janice Lester…Organia’s not worth the trouble…blow up any DY-100 class ships we may accidentally encounter…Good list, Spock!”
Spock: “He also mentioned to stay away from something called the ‘Enterprise B.”
Kirk: “Well, fine. But Janice Lester and I have a date tonight. Too Late!”
FIN
Señor Senior (pun intended) Orci…
As much as I’d love to see a revised Khan, it’s hard not to see Montalban. Although Bardem’s a great idea, and Banderas if Bardem’s not interested is super too. (Not sure about Lou D. Phillips…). Which means essentially that you’ve got some tough choices to make!
I’ve said elsewhere in other threads that it has to be Khan with a twist. (Not Bronson Pinchot’s lemon twist!) My favorite concept is that the Klingons happen upon the Botany Bay, and recognize the DNA of Khan is similar to theirs and assume that Khan might be Kahless, the Klingon Messiah returned. Khan among Klingons.
Then again, maybe the Klingons blast his compartment and instead wake the beautiful woman brunette sleeper (cast Freida Pinto for an epic win win win: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freida_Pinto) and let her lead the Augmented supermen.
Now, admittedly, I agree Khan would be best for the threequel, not the sequel… but if you end the sequel with the Klingons discovering him… and “one year later”… Emperor Khan declaring… “now we take the Federation, and we take Earth”
Unlike the Romulan Commander, who SHOULD turn up now as an ally, not an enemy (fulfilling the line Mark Lenard delivered so well, about calling each other friend in another life)… there’s just really no version I can see where you could twist Khan into a *good* guy.
It makes sense that in the sequel that you followup on the Enterprise exploring some new worlds… perhaps helping in establishing New Vulcan, along with the new Romulan allies.
Watch the fourth season of Star Trek: Enterprise for some inspiration. Manny Coto did a really good job with the writing on the Eugenics-Augment, Romulan, Vulcan and Klingon-involved stories. After all, those parts of the greater Star Trek universe shouldn’t have changed.
As great as “exploring strange new worlds” can be…. well, when Cameron’s Avatar comes out this fall, we’ll see how receptive movie-goers really are to that concept.
Anything you write this summer…. is going to compete in the minds with impressions of Avatar. If it tanks, a “strange new world” is going to be a tough concept to pitch. If it succeeds, then many will be trying to imitate it.
Time travel, that’s a no go. Flashbacks are good though. And that allows to see Khan on Earth… but it also allows to see Mitchell in the Academy as a cadet one year behind Kirk. It also allows us to go back to more of the Academy interaction in flashback.
There was a recurring undercurrent of genetic/planetary manipulation throughout Star Trek. Janet Wallace (the proto-Carol Marcus after all!) and Carol Marcus could be young science whizzes that interact with the Enterprise…. looking for these “strange new worlds”. A romantic triangle going through the new movie will continue to draw the demographics that love Star Trek now because they like Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto (my four teenage daughters, for example.)
But do whatever you like, and remember you can always throw in a touch of “Section 31″… or even expose a different alternate universe Khan as a good guy. Where’s the mirror Khan after all? :) What was he like? :)
228
Well that’s part of the fun of the exercise, to imagine someone totally wrong for the part that you know the Hollywood Exec Types would love to have in their movie.
I believe that in the end what matters is if the writers have a good story for Khan. Since we don’t know all the possible stories they are considering for the next movie, it’s hard to decide. So, Bob, my opinion is go with the best story you can come, no matter if it is Khan or something else. A good story is always a good story, if it is about Khan, great; if it isn’t, great too. I totally trust you guys…
233 – CJS,
Oh, ok, good, it was a joke… :)
I stay away for a day and suddenly Bob Orci is asking screenplay advice. %$#@!!
Well, this is one more vote for no Khan. Not because I don’t love him, but because I do.
In fact I think the whole Khan model has sometimes shackled Trek movies since II. The desire to find the next Khan, the next Great Villain, has given us a lot of bad guys who echo Khan, but no one as compelling, or to feel as fully realized. The Xerox is never as good as the original.
It’s an obviously dramatic way to structure a movie and it can be great when it works, but there are so many possibilities with Trek. The new movie has created a lot of possibilities and clout for its creators. I hope they do something amazing and unexpected with that power. I hope they take the next movie — dare I say it — where no one has gone before.
Bob, Bob, Bob…
Anthony, we need a plot poll for ST12!
What a decision. I am split. As much as everyone wants new, uncharted Trek, not having Mr Khan given the option is like seeing a tasty doughnut and not drooling. Or something.
I love the idea of Khan seeing new opportunities in this altered timeline after being “woken”, getting discovered by a different ship/captain, going a different route and greasing his way up the political ladder at the Federation, but with a decidedly dodgy glint in his eye…
A bit like most politicians then.
Even better, keep his character as a sideplot, a bit of a mystery, don’t mention his name till the end of the film, leading into the sequel…
(He could be quietly developing a new weapon – the lensflare device…yak yak.)
I would love to see Kirk meeting Carol Marcus in the next film, giving him some emotional depth. Hey, you want to appeal to the ladies, gotta have a love story in there… :-)
Have fun with it Mr Bob, we wish you well with whatever story you choose.
42. Boborci – June 3, 2009
41 Preach on brother! Would love that, but which way would you go — lone gunman or military industrial complex?
43. Boborci – June 3, 2009
or mafia?
Depends on what day and time it is. It changes continuously. Which is of course why it endures.
Allegory.
Some of the best don’t have good and bad easily defined and the endgame is left open. Tough to do in the box you must work in.
Have Kirk sh*t talk a super computer into destroying itself while you’re at it.
PS: I just figured out why you don’t do the initials thing like JJ and JRO. :-0
Don’t worry, Home BO did well. Cheers.
GN
BOB ORCI :
I personally wish for :
1. More andorians! :)
2. No more “You’re the only ship in the sector, go get us some milk”
3. Something fresh (I.E No Khan/Shatner)
4. A story that relates to current events (In terms of the theme, ex: Xenophobia), like they did before… Those made the best stories (I’m thinking about DS9’s Far Beyond the stars right now :)
\\//_ LLP Bob & Alex
@ Mr. Orci: Khan can stay frozen for a few more years, he’s not getting any older in the meantime.
I would love to see a completely new adventure. About what, I’m not sure. Maybe the discovery of some kind of ancient alien technology that has everyone up in arms? This could also be a way to introduce new alien species. ;)
Sorry, I don’t get it. Why make a comic book of the movie? The whole thing looks and feel constipated… this is just not very good.
Oh, I know. Maybe it’ll be useful for an attention deficit audience that can’t sit still for 3 seconds, like STXI was aimed at. So instead of making them sit through the modern “bore-fest” of TWOK, we can stick a comic in front of them. Heeyyy, now I’m getting it. But– oh… wait… youth don’t read these days either.
Dang. It’s a no-win.
#119 I’m glad I’m not the only one that has a problem with an inexperienced crew. It made no sense whatsoever. No one in their right mind would leave a crew full of raw cadets on a ship. They would be assigned to different ships to gain experience. As for Kirk, he might have gotten a promotion for his heroic deeds but a Captain’s chair. PLEASE!! This is why half of the Trek fans out there are bitching. JJ Abrams just threw any believeability out the window. No wonder. He has stated that he didn’t know anything about Star Trek and was a fan of Star Wars. I know he didn’t write the script but I’m sure he had a lot to say about what he wanted. Hey, who needs canon when you can just change the future and do what the Hell you want. Abrams didn’t do the alternate future to make fresh stories, he did it so he could do as he pleased and what he didn’t like Screw it! This is a slap in the face to the fans. He didn’t make this movie for the long time fans, but catered to the teeny boppers who’ll be on to the next thing that comes along (Transformers?). I have seen the movie twice and there are things I liked but I’m not kidding myself. I just love my “Trek” any way I can get it. I just feel you don’t have to screw with “canon” to get a fresh and different story. And also, no KHAN! Please!!!! Let our original Trek lie in peace.
If they listen to any of these story ideas from the fans, they might as well flush any profits they made on this film right down the drain.
I said it before and I will say it again:
They did not listen to the fans for the first film and it will probably end up being the most successful project in the Star Trek Franchise.
The sequel will hopefully not include one fan suggestion in it and everyone who saw this film will see the sequel and love it, including those who never saw this film. Let us not forget it was pandering to the fans that killed Trek in the first place.
Perhaps this speculation is fun for some, but seriously, people are addressing “Bob” & “Alex” directly, like script consultants or something. For those on the outside looking at all of these conflicting laundry lists of silly requests, it just looks ridiculous.
As for this article … why are they turning the Wrath of Kahn into a comic? There was already a photnovel. Is there really a market for such a thing? What can a comic do for that story that has not already been done superbly in what is arguably the best film in the franchise? Is there really anything else that can be said to enhance the story?
I agree with the ‘no-galaxy-shattering storyline’ for the next one. I’m also rather over the villainous-bad-guy-with-lame-agenda plot. A clone of Picard??? Why a clone??? The frakkin’ doomsday machine or the Horta was far more interesting to me – and still is – than Vgers and whale probes and more Starfleet officers on the take…
I have a suggestion for inspiration for the next movie: has anyone here ever read ‘The Stardust Voyages’, ‘The Ramsgate Paradox’, or ‘The Merry Men of Methane’ (the latter appearing in the May 1980 issue of Astounding Science Fiction & Fantasy Magazine) by Stephen Tall? First off, recommended reading. The blurb on the paperback edition of ‘The Stardust Voyages’ likens the stories to STAR TREK, where alien worlds are discovered and explored and there is always an interesting reason for all the weirdness they find on some of these planets. Sounds like our guys (except in the books one of the three ‘guys’ is a gal). Any one of the six stories in the first book and the ‘Merry Men’ story* could easily be translated to the STAR TREK universe… EASILY.
Although I advocate the idea that in similar alternate universes things like the doomsady machine or the Horta or even Khan could be found, I’m not sure if I want to do them again.
#242—-”I’m glad I’m not the only one that has a problem with an inexperienced crew. It made no sense whatsoever.”
Compared to what? The dozens of other contrivances prevalent in every other ST film (at least the original ones…I’m not as familiar with the TNG stuff)?
The cadet-to-captain trick made me wince a bit, but it’s really the only thing I had a problem with.
“This is why half of the Trek fans out there are bitching.”
Considering we’re talking about Star Trek fans, if only half (and I don’t think it is that much)of us are bitching—that’s a resounding success!!!
“Hey, who needs canon when you can just change the future and do what the Hell you want. ”
The filmmakers have always done pretty much ‘what the hell they want’ in Star Trek films. That’s nothing new.
“I just feel you don’t have to screw with “canon” to get a fresh and different story.”
And as for needing or not needing canon—whether they needed it or not, they still utilized it. The potential for the creation of an alternate timeline due to interference with the past is in itself canon—-and has been since the very first season of TOS.
They could have just totally disregarded everything that came before and offered a “Batman Begins”-style reboot. But they didn’t, even though that seems to be the trend. Instead, they *canonically* created a brand new avenue for storytelling involving modern style incarnations of my favorite characters. I loved it, and my kids loved it. Even my wife loved it (and neither one of us are “teeny-boppers” by any stretch of the imagination!).
I am sorry that you are so resentful, but I don’t think Star Trek has been this fun in decades. I wish it made you as happy as it did me, but it was never going to please everyone.
#205:
Um, how do you know that Kirk was made aware of ALL this info when Spock Prime mind-melded with him? I would think Spock’s discipline would allow him to only share what he needed to share at the time, and stuff about Khan could be fairly meaningless in the exchange.
Yes? No?
246. Mark Achterberg
Possibly. Who’s to say? Sarek mind-melded with Picard and Picard knew that Sarek loved Spock.
The hell with it. Forget I ever brought it up.
#226:
Ooh, I can play that game:
“The Doomsday Machine” w/ Hugh Lorrie as Decker.
#246—I think it’s pretty safe to assume that Kirk would not be able to process every memory of Spock Prime’s in that brief meld. And even if he caught an image of Spock’s death, it is almost unreasonable to fathom that he could place it in the appropriate context—-meaning being able to deduce something to the effect that boarding a DY-100 class ship in 2267 and reviving its occupants would lead directly to that death.
But ‘The Governator’ still brings an interesting point into the discussion.
Would the altered Kirk make the same decision regarding what to do with Khan as Kirk Prime did following the events depicted in “Space Seed”? Would he really exile him to a nearby Class-M planet? Or would he deal with him more harshly?
I don’t think a mind-meld with Spock Prime would be necessary to suggest that things wouldn’t likely play out precisely as they did before, even given the otherwise exact same circumstances (which in itself would be a stretch).
I don’t suppose anyone thinks we ought to bring back any of these?
Harry Mudd (ROBBIE COLTRAINE)
Gary Seven (how about DAVID BOWIE?)
The Guardian of Forever (Dunkin’ Donuts roadsign?) tee-hee
The Romulan Commander from “The Enterprise Incident” – (Demi Moore)
just funning…
#247—”Sarek mind-melded with Picard and Picard knew that Sarek loved Spock.”
I think the difference is that was a pretty broad thing to take from the meld, whereas the details of what led to Spock’s death in TWOK are a bit more intricate.
“The hell with it. Forget I ever brought it up.”
Why? I thought it was a legitmate issue to explore and discuss.
OK. Well, lets assume that Kirk has been suffering from these flashes of images from the prime timeline due to his mind-meld with Spock, revealing Khan and Spock’s death, which causes him to go and consult with Spock Prime about this to which Spock Prime refuses to reveal anything. But Kirk still believes from these visions that Spock will die at the hand of this man. Suddenly, he encounters Khan on his sleeper ship, blah blah blah, and Kirk obliterates him in the end instead of marooning him on Ceti Alpha V.
#247:
Another ‘umm’:
Don’t you think that Picard – scratch that, ANYONE – would know that a father actually did love his son, even knowing what is known about Vulcan society? It wouldn’t take a mind-meld to take that on faith.
IMHO…
243:
RD:
“The sequel will hopefully not include one fan suggestion in it and everyone who saw this film will see the sequel and love it, including those who never saw this film. Let us not forget it was pandering to the fans that killed Trek in the first place.”
In 1968, the fans rescued TOS for a 3rd season. And then grew Trek in syndication.
In 2005, the fans were all that were left after the downhill slides of VOY, ENT, INS & NEM.
Orci is a fan, and he peppered the new film with interesting tidbits for us. You are right in one sense. If he gets an idea off this site, that’s a writing credit and a check for whoever wrote it.
How about Joan Collons as Edith Keiler. Oh wait. Wrong Year. Ok how about Jom Carrey as Decker. Wait. Bad Idea. How about Drew Carey as Finigan. Ok Bad idea as well. All right. How about Kristen Dunst as Carol Marcus. Hey thats a good one. How about Miley Cyrus as Scottys younger sister. Small role.How about Brittney Spears as a red shirt. Lol
Oh. Jim Carrey. Bad typing.
We could get Mark Hamill as a bad Guy. Also we can have Harrison Ford as a good guy Admiral.
257. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire
Don’t forget to include Zach Efron as Khan!
#252—To me, that’s one legitimate way of treating the effects of the meld (since there is nothing previously contradictory that kind of result being a possibility).
I just don’t feel that establishing a link to the altered Kirk’s meld with Spock Prime is necessary for him to treat Khan differently.
If you recall, Kirk Prime had a tough time (as indicated in his log) deciding what exactly to do with Khan after restoring control of the Enterprise in “Space Seed”. I would actually have a hard time buying that the altered Kirk would come to the same decision in the end as it is—mind-meld or not. Wouldn’t you agree?
Boborci:
Khan is still out there. Somewhere. Spock prime knows this. In fact Spock prime is of invaluable importance to the survival of the Federation. There are still no Humpbacks, V-Ger is still looking for his Maker, the Borg, Kelvins, etc.
Wanna REALLY go where no one has gone? Intercept the Kelvins BEFORE they get to our Galaxy. Trans Galactic travel anyone?
#254 AJ wrote: “In 1968, the fans rescued TOS for a 3rd season. And then grew Trek in syndication.”
So you’re saying the fans gave us “Spock’s Brain”, not Freddy Frieberger? LOL
I doubt in those days the fans reached very deep into the writer’s inner sanctum, the way they can today. Saving a show and contributing a show are vastly different things. Obviously the fans did not save Trek to give them Spock’s Brain. Of course I’m not saying fans don’t have good ideas either, but listening to the cacophony of ideas offered up here and elsewhere, do more than potentially entitle one of us to a WGA credit, they dilute the creative process and encourage pandering to the personal requests of the fans, possibly to the extent of the alienation of the new non-trekker fans Paramount is desperate to attract. Is it merely a coincidence that the rise of the internet and the decline of Star Trek coincided?
I doubt Orci or Kurtzman will listen to any fan chatter, at least seriously. If Abram’s MO continues unchanged, the story will be nothing like one the fans have begun to imagine. He likes surprises and mystery and if he does Kahn, which is a little too obvious and therefore unlikely, you can bet it won’t be based on a story or ideas reflected anywhere in this forum or any other.
This is not to say the fans aren’t important, but honestly, I don’t think any two Trekkers can agree on the way to even present an idea, much less the idea itself. So I go back to this axiom: filmmaking is a not a democracy, it is a benevolent dictatorship in which the filmmaker gives the people what it needs, not necessarily what it wants.
259. Closettrekker
I agree. I just thought the mind meld made things interesting. Although there’s nothing to say that Kirk needs flashes from a mind meld to change what decision he makes. In fact I would be surprised if he would make the same decision. Decisions are influenced by one’s experiences. Since this Kirk has lived a different life than the one in the prime timeline, then it is likely he would make a different choice. After all, the original Kirk went into the Academy. Kirk 2.0 had no reason to and didn’t even want to until Pike came into the picture to remind him of his potential.
#258. Missed that one. Good one. How about James Earl Jones as the Voice of Nomad.
2 Observations on the TWOK comic:
1) The Kirstie Alley likeness is very bad. Saavik was WAY hotter than that in the movie.
2) It makes absolutely NO sense to cut to an exterior shot of the Enterprise during the Kobyashi Maru test, as they aren’t actually on a Starship. A great example of something the movie got right. Bad storytelling on the part of the comic’s creators.
And Bob Orci, please mark me down as a big NO on Khan for the 2nd film. TWOK is tough to top, and it would be wise to not invite the comparisson. Let’s see some strange NEW worlds, NEW life and NEW civilizations!
261
RD:
“So you’re saying the fans gave us “Spock’s Brain”, not Freddy Frieberger? LOL”
LOL
The fans gave us season 3, and got back Friday Nights with Freddy. Crap in the death slot.
I’ll take my “Enterprise Incident,” “Day of the Dove,” and “Tholian Web” with relish and consider the others as warm childhood memories.
@ The Governator
Thank you, muchly! Always up for some thinkin’!
266. Captain Dunsel
My pleasure.
This comic looks fine but I wish they had dropped the “II” from the title. I hope they do The Search Spock and The Voyage Home…
An adaption of Shatners vision of The Final Frontier would be great too.
Happy Weekending to all
(”,)
Boborci
If you are seriously contemplating Khan – consider using it as an opportunity to flesh out the Eugenics Wars and firmly place Star Trek’s 1990’s in an alternate timeline because there’s a few people who think Trek’s 1990’s should be the same as our 1990’s (or Voyagers!).
And use the Pepck-c gene as the basis for the Eugenic movements supermen.
http://blog.case.edu/case-news/2007/11/02/mightymouse
41. 238.
The JFK storyline was never more than a brief synopsis. Unless I missed the big story.
Anyhow, if your interested I’d listen to Saint John Hun on the matter.
He was in a prime position to know.
See…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlpL7qZxPhA
Should’nt we ALL be on the same page concerning this by now?
Dear Mr. Orci:
You have a unique opportunity, created by the film you and Mr. Kurtzman wrote, to truly go where no man has gone before. The universe has been born anew, and it would be travesty to retread such familiar territory so soon in your sequel.
TWOK has, and for good reason, been the gold standard for Trek movies. It has also for far too long been the model, your movie being the latest and, perhaps, the most successful at using TWOK as a guide.
It’s time to create the next model of Trek film. With this new ‘verse, I am once again excited by “Star Trek” and want to boldly go into the far reaches of imagination and exploration with this new crew.
Go “The Dark Knight” in the sequel, but do it with originality, which you and your fellow co-writers are more than capable of doing. I have faith in that. Take us to the edge of space, strange new worlds, new life, and new civilizations. Give us the character drama of TWOK but not the same villain or his thinly-veiled proxy.
And if you must do Khan, leave him for a third movie. I for one could do without him at all.
MR. ORCI:
I vote YES on Khan.
I trust you guys to do an excellent job with the character, and I’d love to see Star Trek’s greatest villain return for the next film.
And if you do, please throw in a TOS-style fist-fight at the end between Kirk and Khan!
Thanks Bob, Alex, JJ, DL BB. Who ever else was involved. I love the movie, and i look forward to the new one. I think everyone is getting a bit carried away, jus cos we’ve had a New trek, why do we think all of a sudden that trek 2 is going to have Khan?
Chill out folks!!
Skimming some of these posts, I’m pretty shocked that so many fans here seem to be against the idea of using Khan in the sequel.
A two-hour plus epic with a 150 million dollar budget (or more) version of KIRK vs. KHAN….and people here are skeptical of it????
Did someone put Ceti Alpha V eels into your ears and using “suggestion” to influence your opinion????
I totally trust these guys with the franchise now. They gave us an awesome Star Trek movie that respected what came before…
I’d give my left testicle to see their take on Khan Noonian Singh!
I like DOM’s comments #88. On the dot for me.
Just read the Alan Dean Foster novelization and would really like to know whether all the bizarre dialogue in it is from an earlier draft of the script, or Foster’s invention?
Boborci
Bob, hola es Gary Neumann desde Caracas.
No vayas a forzar a khan antes de tiempo, es mas interesante ver la reaccion politico-militar de los klingons y romulanos sobre una federacion sin vulcano que rehacer a Khan.
Un saludo y excelente pelicula
Gary
‘Land of the Lost’ was 18% on RT last I checked. Should be a quickie. What a summer of crap! Thank God for Pixar for keeping ‘Up’ their high standards.
Or maybe we should just kill all the critics?
Boborci,
200+ posts later, do you still think it was such a good idea to ask for input? :)
To get this many heated answers about how sacrosanct TWOK is (when you clearly stated that the idea wasn’t to remake TWOK), how Montalban cannot be replaced (they said the same thing about the original TOS actors) or suggesting Latino actors for the role (when Khan was supposed to be Indian, btw, I am Brazilian, so nothing against Latinos).
A thing I have learned is that in the entertainment industry consumers don’t know what is best for them. Art is a creative process, and most people cannot see beyond what they have already experienced. Had you asked for input about the new movie two years ago, which kind of answer do you think you would have got?
The problem with many ST fans is that they think of ST as religion, not entertainment. You cannot get any coherent reasoning from religious fanaticism.
280. opcode – June 4, 2009
I would’ve gotten the input anyway. Thread was heading there!
I think Khan is a great idea, but only if his introduction is completely different (and also if he’s not the driving force behind the plot).
Maybe someone else finds him instead? Another Federation starship. Then Khan can take over that ship and start causing problems, haha.
Or, in the case of a Klingon-Romulan War (which I hope happens), if Khan is found he could provide advise, especially considering his genetic enhancements and intellect.
I think introducing Khan is a good idea not only as a throwback to the ToS, but also because of the hot-topic of eugenics (especially in today’s media). Could provide for some interesting discussion…
280:
“The problem with many ST fans is that they think of ST as religion, not entertainment. You cannot get any coherent reasoning from religious fanaticism.”
Opcode, I don’t know what planet you live on. Star Trek fandom is similar to fanatic local sports team fandom. Imagine sitting in front of a 5-hour double-header dressed in a Yankee jersey with the name ‘Jeter’ or Rodriguez’ on the back. Nuts to the extreme, but more acceptable in society.
Trek extreme fandom is far less widespread and is a tiny demographic, insignificant to box office. Please understand that some of the opinions here may have been left by normal people as well.
271
271
See 41 again, “TIC” = Tongue In Cheek. I do believe GR was fairly serious about it, however I may well be completely wrong.
271
“Should’nt we ALL be on the same page concerning this by now?”
I think there’s a better chance that Kim Jong-il will turn himself in at Betty Ford.
Cheers.
Comic books will be fine, they aim more for grade school kids. Back in the 1920’s Movie theathers were rare, and most parents back then did not value movie entertainment as much as books (reading was educational).
But if they try to go for a reboot of Khan, deicated fans will rename the move to “The Wrath od Gone” and the dedicated fan base will begin to fade. This is because it will not be new and that entertaining.
If JJ wishes to go down the road that Gene created he needs to pick a topic that educates ts about the wrongs of today that we fail to see right in front of us, the solution is done in the future, but we will learn what the problem is and how to fix it if we have enough brains to translate it in our times.
I’m not a big fan of the idea of bringing Khan back. All it would lead to would be an either fair or unfair comparison to the original, and in a lot of people’s minds, it would seem like unnecessary rehashing. I don’t agree with it, but that will be the perception. For example, that was one of the biggest criticisms of Nemesis…too similar to TWOK, just not as good.
I have a lot of faith in you Roberto to deliver an original story that doesn’t necessarily rely on a previous storyline.
My ST11 Dream Movie…
I’d like to see a Journey to Babel plotline with several other TOS classics thrown in along the way. Like the Dooms Day Machine, Galileo 7 (an important and early test of Spock’s character) or the Kelvins (it would be fun to see Kirk save the E from exiting the Galaxy) or even include Nomad, or Daystrom, or a stop at K-7 (C’mon, I know you want too!).
And when they finally get close to Babel, they see Klingons capture and claim the planet “For the Empire.” The Enterprise attacks and there is a battle, but It just so happens that Babel resides in a planetary system that includes an “inferior” planet named Organia.
The Organians, of course stop the space battle between the Enterprise and the Klingons and then test Kirk, and the commanding Klingon, with a duel. Just like in Arena!
My thoughts, feel free! It would be fun to write! I think “some” of the early eps could be a included as threaded plotlines that span the movie. It would certainly make for fast paced action. Include a good protaginist diplomat. They were always a problem for Kirk and his true sense of duty.
Just as long as the new movie isn’t a “villan team-up” like the first few Batman movies… like Khan teams up with Harry Mudd or something like that… lmao.
But seriously… I’d like to see what the 23rd century representative of the Soong family would be up to… or Harry Mudd would be interesting to at least touch upon, but I don’t see a whole movie made based on his character. Q would be interesting to see, or maybe even Crewman Daniels (but NOT Captain Braxton), especially given that they both obviously know that the timeline has been “screwed with”. What about Colonel Worf??? First contact with the Cardassians/Bajorans??? Sybok? Definitely all sorts of possibilities there. And my pick for Khan, should the next movie be a “big K” movie, remains Oded Fehr.
Would really love to see “Spock Prime” give Khan the axe this time around…
Ok, enough rambling from me.
#287. TrekMadeMeWonder
Definitely interesting that you mentioned the Kelvins, I was going to mention them in my previous post, but couldn’t think of the name. Wouldn’t it be REALLY interesting if they somehow rigged the new E’s engines to actually make it to the Andromeda galaxy almost instantly… the crew having to find a way to get back to the good ol’ Milky Way… that’s a crazy possibility right there, but really right there allows for none of the “usual suspects” that we’re so fond of in most of the film. So yeah… double edged sword there. Really insanely cool plot device, but none of the aliens we’re used to seeing that were so sorely missed from ST ‘09. UNLESS they get there by way of some awesome wormhole that some Klingon/Gorn/Tholian/Cardassian/etc. ship gets sucked into after the Enterprise by mistake.
Ok, really done with the rambling that time.
Reflecting. The use of Old TOS plotlines does make the movie a bit predictable. That is whre the REAL challenge of reusing TOS stories lies.
As a viewer I already know the ending. That pretty much goes for all of the above post ideas.
What if Nimoy’s Spock Prime sticks around for one more?
Would’nt his master plan include pointing out the more perilous adventures to StarFleet? It would be interesting to see Spock Prime’s solution to the many problems and adventures they are in for.
The new movie could be a kind of cleanup mission for all of the early problems that all of StarFleet survived. Nomad would make the list, as well as the Klingons, Organians, and the Dooms Day Machine for that matter.
Nomad vs the Doomsday machine would be a good matchup.
I am sure Kirk could swing that one in five minutes.
Well I think bob orci asked a great question for this thread and everyones varying responses were fascinating and mr orci probably feels the same-and i appreciate that he is here listening to see what characters we may be interested in seeing next. imho the brief mind meld kirk had with spock prime would not have given him all of spocks memories-only the details spock wanted kirk to see-vulcan minds are very disciplined and spock was directing the meld-not the same as spock putting his katra or whole being into mccoy in twok–i suppose some leakage could occur but wouldnt be anything kirk could rationlize about or use they would just be memory fragments if anything at all-
Boborci:
If Khan is a serious consideration, there’s a way to bring him in, and further acknowledge “Enterprise”.
Since the timeline has been altered, the Enterprise is no longer where they were when they encountered the Botany Bay. You could set it up that either another Federation ship or even the Klingons find it and get taken over. The Enterprise is dispatched to intercept this rogue vessel.
The Klingons would be interested because of their encounter with the Augments. They may even see this as an opportunity to “get it right” with fresh living material with their genetic experiments.
In the end you have the opportunity to show fan favorite villians, and plenty of opportunity for space action and Kirk & Khan dueling personalities.
Just a thought. =]
I agree that I’m not hugely in favour if using Khan next time round but if he is brought back I think an alliance with the Klingons is the way to do it.
270. wkiryn – June 4, 2009
“f you are seriously contemplating Khan – consider using it as an opportunity to flesh out the Eugenics Wars and firmly place Star Trek’s 1990’s in an alternate timeline because there’s a few people who think Trek’s 1990’s should be the same as our 1990’s (or Voyagers!)”
I think that’s really interesting. I’ve thought that TOS timeline was an alternate to ours with City’s Edith Keeler, and the alternate 1990’s (and therefore no Khan in our timeline???) and that just maybe the new film is in our (correct?) timeline where their past is our correct timeline, no Khan, no Edith Keeler etc. A nice “Lost style” twist on things…? if you’re still there Bob?
I must get these.
End of the day, I’m not in favour of Khan for the next film (but not against him appearing in a later film) but if the Supreme Court decides to do a Khan story next, I’m sure they’ll do a bang-up job, I’ll certainly go to see it and I’m sure I’ll have a blast.
As I say, though, I’d rather see Khan introduced in the third or fourth film.
39. I loved the new movie. I thought what made it great was, in part, how it used different storytelling methods, yet stayed true to the material, and injected it with more emotion. For the sequel I’d rather there not be any villain at all, but a character-based story involving science fiction elements.
[...] So, in proving the adage that it is indeed never too late to close the barn door, even after the horse has escaped, found bliss, gotten its groove on with a nice lady horse and been buried for a decade, IDW is “fixing an oversight from 1982” and producing a three-issue adaption of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. [...]
Please, no Khan! I enjoyed the occasional winks to the old continuity in the movie, but I’d be pretty disappointed in the sequel if the best the creative team can come up with is rehashing old plot lines. They have a huge opportunity to tell *brand new* stories with the alt universe. I think relying on backstory from TOS would be kind of a cop-out, lazy. Of course, I’m not the one who has to come up with something completely new…;)
291:
Well, if they re-visit Nomad I hope they actually design it like it’s part alien… I can see something a little – or a lot – more spookier, perhaps something that reminds one of the Sentinels from ‘The Matrix’. Imagine Nomad half-gliding, half-jumping from bulkhead to bulkhead to get around (or something weirder)…
And the doomsday machine? My ante-up idea is that it is up to more than just wrecking planets (which it still has to do): it is a ‘collection’ device that teleports living things back to Where-It-Came-From (ominous music cue here)…
…but then, we’ve already had planet-wrecking, and I don’t think I want to see that again.
No Khan I also say. Can’t they think of anything new – this was bad enough- just lucky it was well done. Try moving forward. Even though we are now stuck with the same old characters, pick some new adventures- though since we are going this route, it would be ok to have some of the old other characters in it in timeline stories, like Spock just was in this, to add a little jazz to it.
#302 “we are now stuck with the same old characters”
Yeah, “stuck” with Kirk, Spock & McCoy. More like, Paramount finally wised up and got back to its most iconic characters. A new crew is not what I wanted to see. There have already been 4 “new crews” after TOS, and that was quite enough.
And I don’t understand anyone who says using Khan would be rehashing an old storyline. No it wouldn’t be. It would be bringing a classic character into a NEW storyline. Which is exactly what the movie that’s a hit in theaters now has done.
Somewhat on topic, have you guys heard about this book? Can’t wait for it!
http://starfleetlibrary.blogspot.com/2009/04/nicholas-meyers-view-from-bridge.html
#302—”Even though we are now stuck with the same old characters…”
Lol.
From my perspective, we have been “blessed” with the same old characters!
Since around 1987, I felt both “stuck” with new characters that never measured up (TNG and beyond), and “stuck” with an old cast with rather tired legs (TFF and TUC).
For those of us who have had a distinct preference for one set of characters over another—-it seems that someone is inevitably going to feel “stuck”.
#303 – “And I don’t understand anyone who says using Khan would be rehashing an old storyline. No it wouldn’t be. It would be bringing a classic character into a NEW storyline. Which is exactly what the movie that’s a hit in theaters now has done.”
Right, it would basically trying to do what Star Trek 09 did already , plus Khan. Don’t get me wrong, I loved TWOK. I just feel that we have already had one great story (two, if you count space seed) with Kahn as the main antagonist. Even if they set it up differently, have him in league with some klingons or something, it will still come down to Kahn as bad guy threatening Kirk and/or the Enterprise. I feel like I’ve seen that movie already. Sure, he’d have a different beef this time around, but so what? I’m not sure if the considerable talents of the creative team could come up with a big enough twist to make it seem something more than a retread.
I am glad that we are back following the original crew, they were always the most compelling characters, IMO. Now, let them boldly go where no ST franchise has gone before.
Drop the Khan talk!
#307—Oh…it’s not going away. This could very well end up being a watered down revisitation of the “Shatner in ST09″ debate.
307
You wish…
Obviously, nobody really noticed that ST09 made Star Trek “Khan-proof” for a while: by using a villain that, by motivation and appearance, was sort of a love child of Khan&Shinzon. And then there was the “insect down Pike’s ear” thing, an obvious homage to TWOK.
If you remade the Khan story (with those Ceti eels) in a sequel, earmuffs would be a mandatory part of the Starfleet uniform from the third film onwards…
You know, since JJ is up for reimagining things, why not have one of the more interesting characters in all of Trek – “Q”?
I think Kevin Spacey would rock as “Q” and the character’s powers would lend themselves well to the magic of special effects.
Khan has been done.
Im in the tease Khan and set him up for an epic showdown in the third movie camp.
I would add though, to considering using the bulk of the story from ’space seed’, I think that was a great story and would benefit greatly from the possibility of adapting it into a major motion picture
I know this is coming in late, but I have to agree – no to Khan in any sequels. You guys wrote this move with the concept that is should be friendly to the non-fan, so why abandon that for the second flick? Knowledge of Khan implies you need some insider info for a couple of reasons:
-Not that many non fans have seen the origonal series
-Trek has had a very bad habit of killing off the bad guys, or nutering them.
Young Captain Kirk has just taken the chair. Surely there has to be a developmental arc here somewhere that is preparing him for the “five-year mission”? You all hinted in the movie that Starfleet was struggling with it’s mandate. Why? Seems to me like there is plenty of opportunity to tell new stories here without having to mine the tailings…
#310—No. Please….no.
310
No Q or other omnipotent character, please.
In an ongoing TV show, they are useful for the standard “…and now for something completely different” episodes: they turn the cast into Robin Hood’s Merry Men, show them a different life, “Christmas Carol”-style, or maybe make them burst into song …
This often works in TV and can be great fun, in a movie it’s just ridiculous.
#310 Racer X June 5 ..
Q?
Yes please! but who? Nice thought Kevin Spacey? although wouldn’t Tom Hanks be a mercurial Q [too]?
#309 Gul B June 5 said “earmuffs would be a mandatory part of the Starfleet uniform ” .. …
Yeah, and a few decent pockets to keep something to eat. like a nice crunchy apple every time you beat the allged “no-win scenario”,
you know, like in ST:TWOK as Shatner/Kirk beams out of the Genesis Cave or ST 09 as Pine/Kirk’s reporgrammed simulation brings the Klingon shields down.
#315 sorry for typos .. It’s a shame my fingers gofaster than my ideas .. allged .. & reporgrammed ?? oh well.
Tom Hanks would be great as a “Harry Mudd/Cyrano Jones”-style character (could be a good B-plot).
Bob Orci,
I hope you’re still checking this but…
Another vote for NO Khan, and my reasons are about the same as everyone else who feels the same way.
I recall in an interview you said something along the lines of , “we’ll save the Moral dilemma story for the sequel.”
It would be great if you could pull of the standard TOS set up, where we visit a planet or planets who are dealing with some real world issues I.E. Taste of Armageddon, Devil In the Dark (Horta is kind of the Spotted Owl of the 23rd century) The Cloud Miners (lower class being s@#t on)…The real trick would be keeping those issues masked, you don’t want to end up making Star Trek: The Deep Message Movie.
Oh, but if you end up with a gun, or phaser, at your head and everyones like: write Khan or die Orci.
I would cast Naveen Andrews (the guy who plays Sayid).
I hear your director already has a connection.
All of this latin casting is cracking me up. We’re casting Khan, not Montalban.
And this may sound familiar:
(more) Nurse Chapel
and
Tholians.
# 317 Gul .. Tom Hanks .. “Harry Mudd/Cyrano Jones”-style .. as I was writing comment at #315 and thinking about Q it crossed my mind that Tom Hanks might make quite a mischevious Mudd but I’d already provisionally cast him as Q.
Of course what would be interesting would be to see an alternative timeline story with our dear old friend the Squire of Gothos, [according to the book "Q-Squared" he's a Q too which I kind of suspected anyway].
Then I re-read your post, Gul .. you prefer not to have Q around anyway, so Mudd or Jones would be great alternatives for Tom Hanks.
Oh, Mr Orci, would you kindly stick a post-it somewhere to remind you that we could have a new version of the Mirror Universe.. [Quinto with a goatee??]
boborci, did anyone ever tell you that you look like the owner of the Dallas Mavericks, Mark Cuban? :)
I say go for Khan, just pretend you’re asking the fans if you should reboot star trek and what do you think they will say? You heard them complain about the same thing few years ago and here we are again. Different universe/reality with same character/actor/storyline or save Khan for 3 and just do something original in the sequel/Klingons. Just don’t give us a big budget Insurrection. 3-D chess, submarine battles with torpedo cams w/impact, shakespear villian lines, exploration, betrayel, murder mystery, logic vs risk, moral dillema, good of the many outweigh the good of the one etc. We want to cry, laugh, cheer, fist pump and film orgasm. No pressure :) I can see William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy playing chess in San Fran/New Vulcan and thinking back to their second mission after Nero…
One of the biggest reason I do not want a Space Seed retelling is because of the lack luster Engineering set designs of ST09.
Ha, ha!
Seriously. After the second viewing of ST09, it really was not that bad.
Kudos!
Sigh… all I ever wanted from Star Trek was for what is now labelled a “the Prime Universe”, to remain a going concern with screen adventures to look forward to.
EDIT: There’s a stray letter – “a”, in my above post. I just missed it on my first pass.
For me the alternate reality should simply have been a way to introduce these characters, not be the end product. But since I have no influence on returning Star Trek to its original continuity, all I can do make suggestions that fit the new rulebook. So use Khan, Gary Mitchell, The Doomsday Machine… but make the story worthwhile, more than a “Frankenstein’s Monster” of plot cobbled together from pieces of previous movies/episodes, used to almost identical effect, as I firmly continue to believe Star Trek 2009 was nothing but.
Maybe I need to take some comfort in “what goes around”… sometime years down the road, they’ll be a new producer explaining to aging cheerleaders how their boxset of JJ Abrams movies will still exist despite plans to start all over again. :(
#324 … “plot cobbled together from pieces of previous movies/episodes, used to almost identical effect”
Really? Guess I must’ve missed that episode where Kirk grew up conflicted following his father’s death, the whole crew came together, and Vulcan was destroyed. What season was that?
“sometime years down the road, they’ll be a new producer explaining to aging cheerleaders how their boxset of JJ Abrams movies will still exist despite plans to start all over again”
LOL. Yeah, I’m sure. Paramount is already worried about how to keep all the new fans this movie has garnered. What a burden!
CP: “plot cobbled together from pieces of previous movies/episodes, used to almost identical effect”
#325 … “Really? Guess I must’ve missed that episode where Kirk grew up conflicted following his father’s death, the whole crew came together, and Vulcan was destroyed. What season was that?”
A spark of originality or simply changes which were wholly unnecessary?
I tried resigning myself to treating this as an alternate reality, so they could bring everybody from Kirk to Chekov together (younger, Muppet Babies-style) for a new audience. But even with the shock divergences, it felt strangely formulaic at the same time. Potted moments from the other films… or “easter eggs” as they’re called. Had the Kirk promotion scene had a Wookie growling in the background, it would’ve been pure Star Wars. I was disturbed to hear Christopher Pike say “Punch it” Han Solo-style instead of “Engage”.
I don’t dispute that it was a fun movie, but clearly designed to be just that, cherrypicking moments like a Greatest Hits package, then reassembling that into a meaningful script.
Spock quoting Sherlock Holmes to back up a theory, and Delta Vega replacing Rura Penthe for epic icy panning shots – The Undiscovered Country.
Controlling Pike with eels, in a complete retread of The Wrath of Khan.
Romulan henchmen standing in for Reman ones, and a gigantic CG superweapon from Nemesis.
An opening assault on the U.S.S. Kelvin with more than a passing resemblance to several battles seen during Enterprise’s Xindi arc, right down to a villain with knowledge of the future.
As you say, there were a few stray curveballs such as the destruction of an iconic Star Trek world, just to finally drive home in an act of flame thrower redecorating, how the writers are intent on ensuring their work can never fit seemlessly in with the Original Series.
At this point, I’ll probably be forever defending to the death a return to the prime Star Trek timeline. Sure there would be contradictions, chief among them set design but then that’s just window dressing for someone like me… I don’t think designers have ever slavishly stuck with a previous look anyway, especially when there’s a time gap between productions. Likewise canon has never been at the top of my list, although it is nice when enough events gel with dialogue spoken about in the past tense… particularly the broadstrokes.
I don’t buy into the current mantra trotted out by the new film’s writers at all: Star Trek is so impenetrable a franchise, it was incapable of drawing in a new audience because of its supposed intricate backstory. That depends how you craft the tale and how in depth (read irrelevent) you want to explore. I certainly don’t believe a whole alternate universe needed to be created to achieve the goal of drawing everybody in. All they’ve done is craft a story that justifies rushing well established characters into their most famous roles in one hyperactive step, without regard to the kind of life experiences that went into earning those positions in the first place. But of course, none of that matters when there’s millions of dollars at stake.
We are told how bad prequels are because our beloved characters would never be in any real danger. That their futures are already defined. If you’re new to Star Trek would this really enter your head? An exciting tale would surely distract you, draw you in, and make you care for these characters… even if someone had told you how Kirk was going die. It’s not how they died that matters. It’s how they lived. Take bio-pics about real historical characters. You may only vaguely be aware of where these people ended up. Or take for example The Godfather II. Does splitting the narrative between past and present devalue it, knowing Vito was gunned down buying oranges in Part I? Does having seen Generations, mean you can never happily watch an episode of 60’s Trek ever again? I hate this mentality in Hollywood producers….
326. Just be happy they wipe the canvas clean and we are getting new star trek movies. Just look how bad Star Wars prequels was, nobody cares about how Anakin became Darth Vador as we knew the fate of this character, which made for a very boring prequel.
They would also be trying to create a story that fit everything that has been established and quite frankly that would deter from the goal of the movie, which is to entertain and make money. You see Batman fans never say wait a minute, Batman (Michael Keaton) defeated Joker (Jack Nicholson) in this movie and how can Joker (Heath Ledger) come back as a different actor. It’s a movie, same characters are being retold by different creative minds and be acted out by different talented actors, get a grip.
Star Trek 2009 is a box office success and has received very high reviews, I rather have this a successful movie and enjoy future films than have then do a movie that made 5-10% ppl happy.
It would be interesting to see this new reality unfold to the era of TNG where you have new actors taking on Picard and Data and telling even more entertaining stories that make you think, ok, now I see why they did that.
#327 – I have been saying all along this is a reboot. Simply trying to reconcile old canon with the new makes it simpler to just accept that fact. Why indeed can the DC Comic & Marvel fans accept a rebooted movie (Batman & Hulk), yet some Trek fans consider it the ultimate insult. The whole unofficial alternate timeline idea rings as hollow a marketing ploy as “buy now and we’ll throw in this free toolkit”.
In fact I would go farther and say they should have taken a page from the BattleStar Galactica reboot playbook. Did we really NEED Checkov? Keep the basic character but make it more relevant. Let’s face it, in 1967 when he was introduced, it was the height of the cold war with the Soviet Union and the popularity of the Beatles. So, Trek’s producers made the pragmatic decision to introduce a Beatles-like young heartthrob who simultaneously expanded Roddenberry’s vision of diversity, by inviting the United States’ very nemesis into the crew – if we could have a Russian in the crew in 200 years, there truly was hope for mankind! Sadly the producers turned him into a walking stereotype of everything the American people perceived about the Soviets, boastful, impulsive, undisciplined.
Abrams would have done well to re-imagine this character, by leaving the canonically mis-placed boy-genius out, and re-introducing Checkov as a more relevant figure. Trek could have used another woman on the bridge for starters, with Uhura the only significant woman, beside the platinum blonde nurse Chappell who’s contribution to the series is limited to medical related stories and only adding to the number of WASPS on board. Make the Checkov character more culturally relevant. How about a Latina as navigator? Or an Indian, or if you really want to parallel the role as conceived in 1967, an young sexy Islamic – WOMAN! (Guess Paramount would have to cancel those screenings in Indonesia and the Middle East).
But we have Checkov now. They would do well to re-think nurse Chappell as a doctor (”for the last time Dr., I’m an internist, not a nurse”) to replace the position McCoy originally held under the chief medical officer when assigned to the Enterprise, and offer something other than a white platinum blonde Barbie doll. Yeoman Rand is probably a bad idea, given the origins of the naval Yeoman class and as a “secretary” for Kirk. Let’s face it folks she was only around for the first few episodes of the first season. There’s no real need for this character in the modern world, except for the female factor. I would opt for a significant new character instead who bridges some racial and/or gender demographic gap that doesn’t evoke a stereotype. Perhaps even a lesbian or gay male character. But let’s keep the alien characters to a minimum since Trek is ultimately about “us”. The last thing we want is another Wookie or Jar Jar Binks – and no androids lest we get a C-3P0 or God forbid another Data! Those characters may be fun, but don’t parallel and help us aspire to anything greater in our lives today, which is why Trek is ultimately so different than Star Wars.
Frankly I would not be disappointed if the producers decide to “surprise” us in this new unpredictable universe with the death of Checkov in the next film.
RE: Khan
Orci, Kurtzman, Abrams, et. al:
You have managed to very credibly reboot Trek. Now boldly go where no one has gone before, and (continue to) impress the hell out of us with the next movie. Leave well-explored subjects like Khan for fanfic, novels, etc.
If the next movie was about discovering something new and big and dealth with character and dillemas, that will work also.
The origins of life, and introducing a new race. I remember a TOS episode where a probe talks about the origins of life on earth and how they would go around seeding the galaxy/universe with life, if you can expand on this idea and make it grand and epic, that will work also.
You can wrap in there a message about humanity and the moral dillema, Kirk redeeming himself after making a mistake, prime directive violation and Pike mentors him while Spock and McCoy provide their advice/support. You must also allow Bones to say, “he’s dead jim” maybe another red shirt guy. Scotty’s sidekick or pike? I know Pike’s death would make me cry if done right.
Since Star Trek Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, Nemesis and Star Trek 2009 dealth with villains/revenge perhaps go with something new as a result of the new time line/5 year mission. Something along the line on V’ger/Alien Probe/God but with your teams fast pace/suspense style. At the very end of Star Trek 2011 the ship encounters the Botany Bay and the credits roll, which can allow you to do the villian thing again in 2013.
The other idea was that Nero’s Narada borg modified ship repairs itself, pushes forward in time a few years resulting from re entering the black hole, assimilates Vulcan (which re emerged a few years into the future, including Spocks Mom who becomes the Borg queen, and you now have a pissed off Borgfied Nero that says, “Hello, Resistance is Futile” and Spock must now kill her Mom. Winona Ryder would make a kick ass viillain/borg queen. Federation must team up with Klingons to defeat the Borg in a Star Wars like trilogy. Then the Enterprise at the very end with the Klingons locate the Botany Bay, credits roll and Star Trek 2013 you have The Federation vs Khan who is leading the Klingon empire…sorry for the mental lapse.
That is if you wanted to work the Trilogy angle.
Wow a lot of responses about this comic series which I bought because I fell for their advertisement in Previews:
“KHAN BLOWS UP THE ENTERPRISE TO SMITHEREENS”
It didn’t happen!!! This was a comic book version of the best Star Trek movie (in my opinion) out there.
I thought “COOL! A remake!” just like when Dark Horse did Star Wars Infinities.
“Star Wars Infinities??!?” You ask.
Yes SWI. Everything is the same until Luke shoots his proton torpedoes at the Death Star and MISSES!!!!!
I was hoping for something like……
“He changed the prefix code” or Kirk can’t get a hold of Enterprise when he got stuck inside the moon thing.
Yes the new Star Trek movie was cool but get this…(spoilers..but then again I’m sure you’ve seen it already)
IT’S JUST LIKE THE WRATH OF KHAN! Ok in some ways…
Khan and Nero (both villains have four letter names, the obvious)
both out for revenge
both have a ship more powerful than Kirks
both use bugs to put into peoples bodies
a captain dies in both
both give the good guys time to surrender or plan an incredible comeback
both refuse to surrender at the end
both have planet destroying weapons okay Genesis remakes planets
both know the enemy extremely well
anyways here’s to hoping that someone actually DOES do a “What if?” Star Trek II comic book.