Possible Dates For Star Trek DVD and Blu-ray Releases For Fall 2009 | TrekMovie.com
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Possible Dates For Star Trek DVD and Blu-ray Releases For Fall 2009 June 7, 2009

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: DVD/Blu-ray,Feature Films (TMP-NEM),Star Trek (2009 film) , trackback

In April and May CBS and Paramount put out a total six DVD and Blu-ray sets, mostly around the release of the new Star Trek movie, but they are not done yet. There are a number of additional sets for the new Star Trek movie, TOS, and the TNG era movies on the way, and now the first indications of when we will get them are starting to hinted at.

 

A big Fall for Star Trek on DVD and Blu-ray
So far the only official announcement from CBS and Paramount Home Entertainment is that they will be releasing Seasons 2 & 3 of the remastered Star Trek The Original Series on Blu-ray, which are said to be "coming soon". However TrekMovie has already reported that there will also be a Star Trek The Next Generation movie box set on Blu-ray (like the TOS movie set released last month). Like with the TOS movies, the TNG set will include new special features and audio commentaries (more on that below). In addition it is expected that the home video release of the new JJ Abrams Star Trek movie will have three versions: standard widescreen DVD, special edition 2-disk DVD set, and special edition Blu-ray (probably 2-disk).

Our friend Bill Hunt at The Digital Bits is now reporting (in the ‘rumormill’) that TOS Season 2 will arrive September 22nd. The Bits is also reporting that the JJ Abrams Star Trek sets will come out "sometime in November or December" with the TNG movie set coming out at the same time. They are also reporting that the movies inside the recently released TOS era movie Blu ray box set will be released as individual Blu-ray films. However TVShowOnDVD is reporting that the JJ movie sets may actually come in October (possibly the 27th). A TrekMovie source has also said to expect those releases in October, but nothing is firm yet.

As we learn more, we will provide updates. Regardless 2009 is shaping up to be a huge year for Star Trek on DVD and Blu-ray.

TrekMovie’s Tony on the TNG set!
By the way I participated in some of the special features for the TNG Blu-ray set. I, along with Larry Nemecek and Jeff Bond, did a kind of video fan discussion of each film, which will appear on each of the movie disks. In addition, I recorded the audio commentary for Star Trek First Contact along with Damon Lindelof. Both were very fun experiences and I hope you all enjoy them.

Comments

1. Brian - June 7, 2009

Yes, I can’t wait for all the deleted scenes from the movie… first!

2. BadBunnyMike - June 7, 2009

Niiiice! I can’t wait for Season 2 on BluRay, AND the new movie!

3. Harry Ballz - June 7, 2009

Suh-weet!!

4. Charles Trotter - June 7, 2009

Extended cut! Extended cut! Extended cut!

:-D

As for the release date for the movie… I was expecting it would be October 6th. That’s about the same time from theatrical release to DVD release that Iron Man had last year.

November and especially December is too late. Definitely won’t be either of those months.

Regardless of when it comes out… can’t wait!

5. The Original Animated Next Generation Deep Space Voyager Enterprise - June 7, 2009

*sigh*…what kind of millionaire does Paramount think I am? First they pressure me into having to buy expensive equipment I won’t be able to afford any time soon, and now they’re releasing all this media that requires said equipment in order to watch?

It’s madness I tell you, MADNESS!!!!! It’s a conspiracy to rob all the common trekkies of their hard-earned cash so they can rule the world! BOYCOTT!!!!

Either that, or I just need to win the lottery ;)

6. Gabriel Bell - June 7, 2009

Anthony … Based on your reasoned and concise commentary on this site, I’m thrilled to hear you will be providing your perspective in some of the extras on the TNG releases. Congratulations to you! Extremely well earned.

7. naHQun - June 7, 2009

I can’t wait to see the Klingons!

8. SebiMeyer - June 7, 2009

The Damon Lindelof commentary for FC definitely sounds interesting.

9. The Governator - June 7, 2009

Awesome news!!!

And congrats Anthony

10. Charles Trotter - June 7, 2009

I wish I could was the vid and listen to the commentary Anthony worked on. Alas, if it’s only on Blu-ray, that won’t happen, unless I’m able to check it out online or at a friend’s house or something. Assuming the friends usually hang out with decide to actually buy a Blu-ray player. Most of them, like myself, absolutely hate Blu-ray and do not intend on wasting the money to buy not only a Blu-ray player but a suitable television for it. Oh, and the discs, too, of course.

Of course, in the unlikely scenario that DVDs are no longer being made and Blu-ray discs are all that’s left, then I guess we’ll break down and buy a Blu-ray player. Seeing as how Blu-ray sales are still in the crapper (though very slowly rising), I doubt that will happen, at least not in the foreseeable future. It’s more likely that some nifty, new device will come along and take out first Blu-ray and then DVD.

The bottom line: Blu-ray sucks. Sorry, Blu-ray fans. (I’m assuming there are some out there.)

11. Charles Trotter - June 7, 2009

Havign said the above, congratulations on the video/commentary, Anthony. Hopefully I get to check it out eventually. :)

12. Ben - June 7, 2009

looking forward to the ST XI DVD with the Extended cut.

13. Michael - June 7, 2009

I have to honestly say that I loved this movie so much, it may actually be THE movie that gets me to enter the world of blu-ray…

14. Sci-Fi Bri - June 7, 2009

an extended cut would make Nero’s klingon prison stay cacon… leaving it as a deleted scene could open he way for novels to explain it non-canon.

15. Jason - June 7, 2009

@10

I realize now that blu ray sucks because Charles Trotter and his friends can’t afford to upgrade. Here I was, thinking that it was worthwhile for the amazing picture and audio quality, but because some d-bag named Charles Trotter can’t afford it, it obviously sucks. F— you, Trotter

16. AJ - June 7, 2009

Charles:

I agree re: Blu-Ray. I invested in HD-DVD only because Paramount was behind it. And now, it seems that the picture quality of the Trek movies on BR vs. DVD is not too different as they’re just stamping the existing DVD masters onto BR, revealing warts and all (TWOK,apparently, excepted).

But there is a Samsung BR player for $199.95 out now (I checked on Crutchfield), and I am sure prices will tank before Xmas. The issue is, if the film is not specifically cleaned up and remastered for HD, your existing DVD player with upconversion will make your existing DVDs look marvelous on a plasma.

If you’ve invested in the new HD sound formats, you lose with DVD. And if you do not get a BR player, you lose out on the max potential of the TOS-R series.

My current favorite DVD player cost me $24.95 at Walmart, and has more features than a $700 player I purchased 6 years ago. Picture is identical. Patience is a virtue.

17. MC1 Doug - June 7, 2009

I’ve yet to take that leap to go Blu-Ray. With over 1,000 DVDs in my library I don’t really want to switch over (mostly because I think Blu-Ray costs too much compared to a perfectly goood format).

Yes, I do realize a BR player will play the old format… so I assume at some point I will switch over; I just haven’t felt the necessity… yet.

That said, hearing AP doing commentary comes close to making me switch… Congrats, Anthony, that has to be a big honor to perform such duties (hey Anthony, I’ve asked this in the past, but seriously… is this blog your day job or what??? If so, wow!!! envy…)

18. shawn - June 7, 2009

I would love to see all the trek tos movies remastered, like the they did with the tos series. imagine twok with new didital battle scenes. Also the tng series remastered. It would be cool to see best of both worlds with good sfx this time around.

19. Charles Trotter - June 7, 2009

14. Sci-Fi Bri — Assuming they do an extended cut, I definitely hope they add the prison scene back in. I also hope they re-add the scene with Kirk’s brother. This way, they can also fix the otherwise pointless shot where Kirk’s bro became a random hitchhiking kid named “Johnny.”

It would be cool if they could work in the scene of Spock’s birth, too. If I understand things correctly, though, that scene was originally supposed to be the scene that opens the movie. If they do re-add it, I hope they don’t insert it at the beginning where it normally would have been. The way the movie began with the attack on the Kelvin followed by the title card was perfect.

A good place to include Spock’s birth would be as a flashback when Sarek goes to see Spock in the transporter room after Spock relinquishes command of the Enterprise. He walks in, sees Spock, and remembers when he was born. When the flashback is over, it goes back to the transporter room, with Sarek telling Spock to “speak his mind.” I think that would work beautifully, if done right.

Not sure what other deleted scenes there are, but if those are the only ones that are added, that would be fine by me. Any deleted scenes not added to the extended cut can still be included on the DVD among the bonus features.

20. Craiger - June 7, 2009

So will Paramount do the movie series first and see how that does before thinking about doing any new TV series?

21. AJ - June 7, 2009

15:/Jason:

That’s not nice.

Trek films apart from TWOK and ST09 have little to gain from BR except better sound and new special features.

Blu-Ray is NOT a successful format, as most are satisfied with DVD. DVD was so much better than VHS, that major studios just printed money rolling out existing masters onto disc. Then came special features and extended editions. The key is to get you to re-buy your current collection in the new format.

Studios are not investing in upgrading their current portfolios for true HD. Consumers are still happy with their DVD’s. Most don’t care about additional content, and upconverted DVD’s (if a consumer even knows what that is) look fine. Hell, the average widescreen TV owner sets all programs to wide, temperature to “vivid” and “sharpness” to maximum, killing the benefits HD almost entirely.

And everyone expects a new format to come down the pike soon.

22. Sean4000 - June 7, 2009

I hope these aren’t DNR’d to death like the first set. But I am not holding my breath.

23. craigkeith - June 7, 2009

guys im not sure if any of you are aware of this buy certain films from the original blu ray collection our already out to buy seperatly ….. the wrath of khan and the underscoved country can be brought anywere that sells blu ray in the UK

24. RD - June 7, 2009

“TOS Season 2 will arrive September 22nd”

I am somewhat surprised to hear TOS-R Season 2 won’t be out until September, considering Season 1 came out in April. 5 months between releases suggests it will be February 2010 before Season 3 is released. I would have expected more of an August/November timeframe for 2 & 3. Perhaps they will still release 3 in time for Christmas (after all they still need to clean up a few mistakes ;-)

25. Simon - June 7, 2009

#21 – Blu-ray outsold DVD year to year (1997 vs. 2006, etc) and you call it “unsucessful”?

Back in the 90’s people were more than happy in VHS. DVD’s title selection was pitiful.

Expecting a new format? 10 years between BD & DVD.

As far as TREK on BD is concerned, you “think” the BDs don’t look great, but then turn around, put in the DVD version and see what an improvement the BDs are…and how lousy the TREK DVDs look now.

26. Brad - June 7, 2009

Danging, several websites were advertising Star Trek 2009 as coming out on DVD and Blue Ray at the end of July. I am now a sad, sad panda. :(

27. Chris Clow - June 7, 2009

Extend Nemesis on Blu! Do it! :-)

28. kosmopol aka Merzmensch - June 7, 2009

I very hope, there will be some ARG contents on the DVD.

29. EricAD - June 7, 2009

I’m sorry…but the new Trek Blu-rays, whatever problems they may have, are WAY better looking than the regular standard definition DVD’s. This is a given. If you can’t see it, maybe you have glaucoma or something. True, there are a lot of Joe Six Packs and Sally House Coats who aren’t cinephiles who aren’t ever going to care about the improved picture quality and are just going to be fine with regular DVD (not to mention many, many people still don’t own flat screens, making Blu rays a moot point) Blu Ray may never have the penetration that standard DVD had, but right now it is one of the only bright spots sales wise for the home video industry.

30. Charles Trotter - June 7, 2009

15. Jason

Don’t push it, or you will be banned. (Yes, I can do that.) In any case, I never said blu-ray sucks because I can’t afford it. I said it sucks because there’s really no difference in terms of picture quality and to even get an iota of difference, you need to get a TV that’s capable of doing the job. Why spend more money on media that does pretty much the same thing as DVD? Ok, sure, blu-ray can fit more crap on it, big whoop. Put three or more DVDs in the box, we’ll live.

One thing you need to remember: this is all my opinion. If you do not like it or agree with it, that’s fine, but if you react that way again, you will be banned.

31. Loran Alan Davis - June 7, 2009

I will stick with DVD for now, thank you. I’m not ready to ivest in a HD television and a Blu-Ray player just to see an image only a little better than what a DVD offers.

Oh, and #15 – you are walking on thin ice. Please reconsider your attitude.

32. Sean4000 - June 7, 2009

It’s okay Jason just be careful next time. they WILL ban you. I know, I’ve been close to the big red button a few times myself. i realized that making one last flash in the pan statement was not worth losing my voice on the site. I hope you think the same.

Peace out man.

33. madtrekfan - June 7, 2009

Nah don’t bother with Blu-Ray wait for the films to come out on isolinear optical chips, that the ticket laddie, just like that transparent aluminum malarky – like garlic bread, the future….

And talking of garlic bread, where’s that damn replicatore when I need it most??

lol

34. RD - June 7, 2009

#26 LOL, not only sad but naive! LOL

ST09 won’t even be out of the theaters in July. Unless ST09 was the worst film ever in terms of box office performance, the DVD wouldn’t be out in less than 3 months after it left theatres. A Summer release of a successful film translates typically to a pre-December holiday release.

#25, Not sure where you get your figures. DVD is still the most popular format between it and DVD, not counting downloads.
http://news.cnet.com/is-dvd-movie-pricing-holding-blu-ray-back/

That said, there is not likely to be a significant format change to delay a consumer into the market anytime soon. Broadcasters are unlikely to go beyond the ATSC 1080i/p HD standard for the foreseeable future. While HD DVD may improve compression codecs and 1080p image clarity, it is not likely to advance much beyond that for the masses even after 10 years. Like the Criterion Laser Disks before it, niche markets may develop for certain releases for 4K, 2540p, or Super-hi resolution monitors. But like SD CRT TV’s of the past, this will be lost on most of the installed HD screens in the world for many years before it becomes a viable format with sufficient content and affordability. 720p sets in fact dominate most of the installed market as it is, who don’t even enjoy the benefits of 1080i.

VHS reigned supreme over DVD due to more than a lack of content. VCRs were a major source of time-shifting programs and there was no need to invest in another format for pre-recorded movies until home-theatre systems became affordable at Wal-Mart and DVD players and media dropped into the realm of affordable luxury to warrant an additional playback device – mainly for the 5.1 surround sound it offered and not the improved picture. It is no surprise that as DVR gained in popularity and affordability that the VCR began to simultaneously disappear. Picture quality holds little advantage over price for the average user. Only in the homes of avid home-theatre users do I find properly calibrated HD sets. Most HD sets I see in the average home, suffer from SD only content, stretched pictures to avoid black bars, and little or no HD access. The pictures are actually worse than on their old CRT sets, yet few notice in the presence of the otherwise lighter, slimmer, and hi-tech looking set itself.

35. Charles Trotter - June 7, 2009

33. madtrekfan

Ha! Well, the next step will probably be to release movies and TV shows on some form of storage device like a flash drive. They already did it with Ghostbusters, releasing a flash drive with the movie preloaded on it. Of course, the flash drives would probably need a bit more storage capacity before they can be distributed ala DVDs/Blu-ray. Oh, and they would need to be much cheaper than they are now. After that, I would imagine isolinear chip-like technology wouldn’t be too far away. :)

36. Anthony Pascale - June 7, 2009

No its not OK Jason, that kind of language and personal attack is not done here. You are warned

37. Sean4000 - June 7, 2009

Yeah, you’re right, “okay” wasn’t the best word.

38. LoyalStarTrekFan - June 7, 2009

A while back a debate started about BR vs. DVD in which people who had Blu-Ray looked down upon those who didn’t and those who had DVD took offense and sometimes went over the top with their counterattacks. Let’s please not do that again.

Some people cannot afford the newest and greatest gadgets, for example, unlike most people my age, I do not and I have never owned an iPod, iPhone, or any other iThing that Apple comes up with. I don’t have a HDTV or Blu-Ray player, and I don’t have a state-of-the-art computer with unimaginable power and processor speed. Not because I don’t want some of these things, I would love a new computer, but I can’t afford it. However, there are two nice things about entertainment BRs or DVDs. 1: The prices decrease over time and 2: The BRs or DVDs are able to be purchased for years after the original release date on sites like Amazon.com. Therefore I’m not worried and will look forward to getting some of these things whenever I can. Until then, I’ll look forward to the great reviews on TrekMovie, and the great screencaps on TrekCore. And of course, enjoy the entire Trek franchise on DVD. As for the new movie, I will likely get the Special Edition 2-Disc DVD. I have to say though that DVD still looks pretty good to me, even with the HD Screencaps of TWOK on TrekCore. The DVD still looks pretty good. Sure BR has some higher quality but I still think that the DVD looks good.

Now, with all that said, can we please have a civil debate here on this topic. Let’s all practice basic civility.

39. Unbel1ever - June 7, 2009

I also would like to see an earlier release, but that won’t happen. I was expecting October after I looked up the release date for the Iron Man DVD. So it’ll be another long wait until I can watch it again, since it’s out of the cinemas here.

40. Chris - June 7, 2009

I hope ST XI will be out by my birthday!

41. Justin Olson - June 7, 2009

@ Charles Trotter

“[I] absolutely hate Blu-ray… there’s really no difference in terms of picture quality [compared to DVD]… Blu-ray sales are still in the crapper… some nifty, new device will come along and take out Blu-ray… The bottom line: Blu-ray sucks. Sorry, Blu-ray fans.

One thing you need to remember: this is all my opinion.”

******

And not a very well informed one, at that.

What is the source of this absolute hatred — of a home video format, of all things? If Blu-ray is so bad, no better than DVD and such an unmitigated disaster, then answer me this: why is Mr. Abrams and Paramount bothering to release their new blockbuster film STAR TREK on the format? For that matter, why do they release any of their product on Blu-ray (Lost, Fringe, Transformers, M:I:III, etc.)? Do you know something they don’t?

Have you ever seen a new release Blu-ray on a properly calibrated 1080p display… or even a 720p front projector on a screen that is bigger than you are? I’m not talking about strolling through a Best Buy and looking at their HDTVs with their color saturation and contrast turned way up to attract people who don’t know any better. Have you listened to a lossless 7.1 or 5.1 DolbyTrueHD or DTS-HD-MA soundtrack before? This is great stuff you are missing. Far from sucking, Blu-ray is the best home video format we’ve got right now and it comes the closest to reproducing the cinema experience in our homes.

Reconsider your opinion.

42. LoyalStarTrekFan - June 7, 2009

Charles Trotter, I agree with you in regards to not seeing the hype over Blu-Ray. I’ve looked at the HD Screencaps of TWOK on TrekCore and compared it to the DVD screencaps of TWOK. I don’t see the big deal. Yes there is some increase in picture quality, but not such a huge difference that it makes DVD look like crap. In my opinion, DVD picture quality is still very, very good and since I own the entire Star Trek franchise on DVD, I don’t see the need to double dip for a little extra picture quality, plus the HDTV to “really enjoy it” and a whole new type of player. Especially since, if at some point in the future Blu-Ray players are sold and DVD players aren’t, DVDs will still play on Blu-Ray players. So, in short, I will not be double dipping. I also can’t afford all that new stuff. :)

Well, that’s my opinion, people can agree or disagree. All I ask is that it is civil.

43. Unbel1ever - June 7, 2009

#34

That article is really dead on. I would like to switch to Blu-Ray at some point, but it’s way to expensive in every aspect. I don’t have the money to buy a fancy HD tv or even HD projector so I can actually notice the difference. Also the players are way to expensive compared to DVD. Sure the picture would be superior, but a visible yet not “amazing” difference between the formats does not justify these prices. So I’ll stick to DVD for now and maybe skip the Blu-Ray hype entirely. Flash cards may be the future and I can wait.

44. LoyalStarTrekFan - June 7, 2009

I would love to see an October release date for the new movie. But, we’ll see.

41, perhaps but if you can’t afford it, you can’t afford it. The main problem I have with Blu-Ray, other than it’s price, is the fact that to “truly enjoy it” you need to get an expensive HDTV, special Blu-Ray player, etc. So, add in even more expensive items. The price tag could be hundreds and hundreds of dollars! Also, when I compare the screencaps from Blu-Ray TWOK and DVD TWOK, I don’t see the huge difference that you describe in your post. Is there a difference? Sure, there is some increased quality in Blu-Ray. Enough for it to be a big deal? Not that I’ve seen.

45. Charles Trotter - June 7, 2009

41. Justin Olsen

The reason movies are being released on Blu-ray is obvious: companies are hoping it will replace DVD. You can fit more stuff on one Blu-ray disc than you can on a DVD disc, and, with a proper HD television, you might be able to actually hear and see a difference in the quality of the sound/picture. I watched the first Pirates of the Caribbean on Blu-ray at a friend’s brother’s house, after which we popped in the DVD (on a DVD player) to see the difference. All of us, including my friend’s brother (the owner of the Blu-ray player) were disappointed to see that there was not a huge difference. And this was a 40+ inch widescreen plasma TV.

I am not saying Blu-ray does not have advantages over DVD in terms of storage capacity and, to a lesser extent, sound and picture quality. I am merely saying that, as of right now, there is no reason to abandon DVD and start investing in Blu-ray. So Blu-rays have more space? That’s nice, if you care about having a few more special features and commentaries. Companies can easily put those features on an additional DVD (a second or third disc depending on the movie), and it would be cheap to do so, but they won’t because they want to give people more incentive to buy the Blu-ray. So far, it’s only working to moderate success, but I really don’t see it making more of a splash than it is now (i.e. being outsold by DVD by around 90%).

So, I maintain that, to me, Blu-ray sucks. That’s just all there is to it. You like Blu-ray. I respect that opinion. I ask that you respect mine, as well. As LoyalStarTrekFan stated, though, should I change my mind, Blu-ray discs will always be available for purchase via Amazon and similar sites. But I just don’t see that happening.

46. Charles Trotter - June 7, 2009

Addendum to #45

For the record, I do care about additional special features and commentaries, hence my point about them being added to an additional DVD disc.

Okay, I’m done. :-P

47. Irishtrekkie - June 7, 2009

i love HD anyway, first off you can see the differents lol, i was not mad that blue-ray won , as its kinda like sony wanted to control all ends of the market , i do now have a blue drive on my computer as it was cheap and use my my computer as a media centre to watch stuff i download and blue-ray movies i buy, on my big television.

i do think it wont be too long till we see flash drive movies ,or Holo dvds ( or one of the many other formats they have in developement coming out soon. is there not talk of special burning techinque and 8x layers dvds that can hold hd quailty movies , plus what happens when people want super hd res stuff , will we be buying all this stuff again , oh well
we are all just slaves to new tech .

48. Michael - June 7, 2009

Just some perspective here. Studios and media merchandisers will always want you to buy. VHS only this year was abandoned and no more blank tapes are being produced to record tv shows…what’s in your local stores on the shelves is it, fini.
I have hundreds of vhs tapes and in all those years, I’ve only 1-2 bad vhs tapes. Would you like to hear how many defective dvd’s I’ve returned due to video/audio freezing, hiccups, etc.?
True be known, thw wholoe world does not own an HD tv. many will be drug kicking and screaming to purchase a new HDTV when their analog set and analog tv antenna converter box become land fill fodder many years from now. The world has changed. many get unfortuantely, their movies, tv shows online and burn them, illegal yes!
Many use Netflex and don’t purchase anything.
Remember vinyl records..yes they still them, but how many of you even buy CD’s anymore when you can download an album on your i-pod?
I’ve seen Bluray in store demo’s…they have an unnatural glow and look to them, that I find odd. They have an artificial feel to the video image, and again, I own hundreds of DVD’s, and see no real reason to upgrade to Bluray at this time, as they’re still producing titles on standard dvd too.
I had JUST bought a brand new HD DVD player, and within a few short months after buying my 249.00 player and getting TOS-R hybrid dvd season 1, I’ll be danged if they jestisioned the format for Bluray.
To say I was pissed is an understatement.
many films on dvd played on a Bluray reveal a horrid playback revealing all sorts of stuff, you’re older player/tv set never brought to the foreground.
My HD tv makes my analog vhs tapes which looked studio quality in video look like crap. I’d wished I had an older set to play them on.
Even first generation dvd’s w/ older titles on them are painfully limited in their playback images in resolution aspect.
Unless a film has been restored, remastered..it will be sad looking, if all you’re getting is a transfer of old negatives straight to BD. I’m 51 and have re-bought TOS 4 times! 2 ep. VHS tapes, 2 ep. standard dvd’s, season sets, and again, TOS-R! I’m so through w/ purchasing TOS I can’t tell you.
Am I thoughly annoyed w/ CBS for waiting till Bluray to branch both the old and new TOS episodes on the same disc, and forcing me to buy classic trek and TOS-R separately? YES! Did I feel cheated the TOSR sets had no newly produced next week teaser’s, just the old un-restored ones? YES! I waited ang got all 10 films on SE/Direct. Cut and own all 6 series…I’m so done, stick a fork in me I’m done!

49. Jason - June 7, 2009

Charles Trotter — dude, ban me from posting comments but it won’t stop you from being misinformed.

50. Justin Olson - June 7, 2009

@ 44. LoyalStarTrekFan

“Perhaps but if you can’t afford it, you can’t afford it.”

******

But that’s not the argument Charles was making. In fact, he explicitly said otherwise:

“I never said blu-ray sucks because I can’t afford it. I said it sucks because there’s really no difference in terms of picture quality.”

This statement is factually incorrect. The screencaps from TrekCore alone prove it. Look, neither of you has an HDTV display or a Blu-ray player. This comes down to whether you (or Charles) think that the upgrade is worth the price. You have both been clear that you don’t think so. That’s fine, I don’t have a problem with that. On my 720p DLP front projector which I got refurbished a few years ago for $850 and my DIY 8 foot screen, Star Trek II is a revelation on Blu-ray. At 13 feet seating distance, it’s like watching a 35mm print in my home. And the 7.1 sound isn’t bad either.

What can I say? I like movies, and I like watching the best way I can.

51. Jason - June 7, 2009

Actually, I apologize to Charles. I was out of line. His statement was incorrect, and it upset me — WAY more than it should have. Sorry, Charles — I love your contribution to the site and I’m embarrassed by my behavior. But you *are* wrong about blu ray.

52. Allen - June 7, 2009

Charles you either only have an SD tv, 720p tv, or you are blind. Granted there isn’t much of a difference between something as old as “the hunt for the red october” on blu vs dvd, but there is a HUGE difference between transformers on blu vs dvd. Unfortunately I still have a lot only on dvd it its painful to go back. I just hope they can figure out a way to get me all 700+ episodes of star trek on blu-ray soon.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that i’ve been upconverting dvds on my computer for over a decade. The difference is so good on most movies that I am 100% blu ray from this point on and will never buy another dvd again.

53. Charles Trotter - June 7, 2009

51. Jason

Apology accepted, mate (I replied to your e-mail, too). And again, your opinion regarding my opinion is noted. :)

I would also like to apologize for making the comment which began this whole thing. Looks like I need to watch what I say, too. Instead of “blue-ray sucks” perhaps I shoulda just left it at, “I don’t like Blu-ray.” :-P

54. Charles Trotter - June 7, 2009

52. Allen — It wasn’t my TV, it was the brother of my friend’s. And I’m fairly certain it was HD. I’m not saying there was no difference at all, I’m just saying we were all kind of underwhelmed at the difference.

Like I said, at this point, I just don’t see why I should stop collecting DVDs and start buying the more-expensive Blu-ray discs. DVDs suit my purpose just fine… for now, anyway.

Having said all that, I apologize for making a comment which sent this forum off-track. That wasn’t my intention. This is supposed to be about the Star Trek releases, not a battle of DVD vs. Blu-ray. Let’s just keep it on-topic from now on. :)

55. Joshed - June 7, 2009

I can’t wait for the TNG set!

56. Daniel Shock - June 7, 2009

I can’t wait – for CBS to say – “we’re remastering TNG, the series for HD”

but I have a feeling I’ll be waiting… a long time.

57. tom v inelli - June 7, 2009

theres a lot of misinfromation around the bds of the 6 movie set.
1.they did not use dvd masters.this bs was floating around the internet even before the movies came out.
2.true they could have looked better but there not bad.
3.watch one of the movies,then pop in the dvd and you see how bad the dvd is.
as i said they could have looked better and paramount had 2 years to work on them,but there worth a look at rent them

58. mumbles3k - June 7, 2009

Anthony,

Who recorded the commentaries for the other 3 movies? Thanks.

59. tom v inelli - June 7, 2009

jason you are so wrong about bd.it looks 10 times better then dvd.
i find more people that say that need to consider a eye exam.
no doubt some blu-ray movies look bad,but thats not blu-rays fault.
its the studio’s applying to much dnr.i find that true on older movies.
most new movies look great.

once studios cut back on dnr or restore older movies bd is going to look even better.you can hate bd if you must,but don’t try to sway people.
if you hate bd that much you shoundn’t even be here.

60. Charles Trotter - June 7, 2009

Guys, let’s stick to the topic of the Star Trek DVDs/Blu-rays, not on the whole issue of DVD vs. Blu-ray. I apologize for taking the discussion off course, but now it’s time to bring it back on-topic. So no more DVD vs. Blu-ray talk.

61. LoyalStarTrekFan - June 7, 2009

59, are you saying people who disagree with you aren’t welcome? If so, perhaps you should reconsider your attitude.

56, the problem with remastering TNG or any of the later Trek shows is that those shows all relied on visual effects a lot more than TOS and they all had a lot more episodes. In short, that means a whole lot more work and a much longer time to get the work done. Compare the amount of visual effects in “Encounter at Farpoint” compared to “The Cage,” or “All Good Things…” compared to “Turnabout Intruder.” In each case, the TNG episode has much more visual effects. Also consider that right now all the rage is about TOS. As a result, why would CBS put in an investment in a product that there is currently little or no buzz about (which is a shame, imo). Also they would have to sell a very large number of DVDs and Blu-Rays in order to break even, let alone make a profit. Therefore, I do not believe that TNG will be remastered, the likely scenario is that the film will be simply “cleaned up” for a Blu-Ray release and the visual effects will remain un-remastered. That’s my theory anyway.

50, sounds good. You’re right, I don’t think the upgrade is worth the price, especially considering my vast library on DVD, from Star Trek to James Bond, to some of my favorite TV shows like NCIS and JAG. Consider, we’re talking 22 Bond films, 10 Star Trek Films, and 28 seasons of Star Trek. That’s a lot of double dipping. I may reconsider when the prices of the various required equipment (player, HDTV, and Discs) come down in price though. I’ll probably buy the equipment (when it comes down in price and I have no other choice if and/or when they stop selling DVD players) and not double dip on the various products as DVDs will play in Blu-Ray players. In any case, I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. For now though, I’ll stick to DVDs. However, I respect your opinion and hope that you enjoy your collection.

62. LoyalStarTrekFan - June 7, 2009

What’s great news is that Star Trek is releasing new products on DVD/Blu-Ray. That shows that there is confidence at Paramount and CBS that people will buy Star Trek. This is good news and hopefully this confidence will continue for years to come.

63. LoyalStarTrekFan - June 7, 2009

Oh, and I forgot to mention in my post #61 that CBS released the whole series on DVD just a couple of years ago with new special features and commentaries. Therefore, a Blu-Ray release would probably include even more new special features and commentaries. Other than that, and a cleaned up film, I wouldn’t expect any visual changes in TNG or any other Trek show released on Blu-Ray.

64. RD - June 7, 2009

#56 – I’m not as up on this as Anthony obviously is, but a good friend of mine is the operations manager of a major Hollywood post facility that did the transfers for the re-mastered project. He told me last Fall that CBS had been shopping around for bids to do TNG, which he hoped to get again. So do not listen to all the speculation and mis-information that has circulated around even this board. CBS is actively seeking to remaster TNG and the success of this movie should only speed up the process. My guess is the re-mastered HD first seasons of TNG will hit syndication packages sometime next Fall and be Blu-ray released in time for the sequel in May 2011. That would be my guess to capitalize off of the current hype.

65. Sean4000 - June 7, 2009

Well, I hope EdenFX gets the TNG-R project. I think we talked about this a while back, RD. I hope that it comes to fruition.

66. Daoud - June 7, 2009

I think I’ll hold out for the Violet-Ray discs in the late 2010’s, or the UV-Ray discs in the 2020’s. Then again, when PlayStation 9 comes out, we can just breathe in the movies! :)

I still enjoy my TMP and TWOK VHS tapes. And my original 1987 VHS tapes made off air of TNG. They’re holding up very well.

64, 65 TNG-R will be an interesting project. Here’s hoping they can tweak a few things… such as making O’Brien’s pips right! ;) Just watched the 1991-92 season “The Loss”, and must say the “cosmic string” looked ridiculous. Even if they just redo the space scenes, it would be nice. Just as long as they get the Okudas involved!

67. Sean4000 - June 7, 2009

64/66. The FX house I was the CTO of, Lucid SFX, contacted CBS-Paramount In November 2008. They knew of what we getting at but could not give u s a timetable. Everything was dead serious. You get my drift? kinda lol? It felt like a more or less “neither confirm or deny” type thing. Sit tight, I think at least a best of TNG-R is on its way. 80% sure at this point.

SideFX Software is the company we are close friends with and they were going to be the “big name” behind our bid; well them and the swarm of amazing artists the CEO is close with. I, Sean, would have been promoted to full time CTO, and would have probably hand built every upgraded super high-end station as well as a new render farm.

There would have been a “no excuses” attitude under my administration that’s for sure. The CEO shared my attitude as well.

But, my time with them is now over. Jason read this. Like in ST IV, when the man said “respect in any chain of command”or something like that. Don’t let a situation or one little thing blow up not matter how you feel about the other person, or their viewpoints. Especially if they are “above you” as in rank. You want to keep Charles, Matt, and the others, esp Anthony on your good side no matter what the circumstance. I did not respect this chain and the higher ups showed me that the CTO answers to all of the other COs no matter what I thought. My time ended and the relationship only grew worse with my technical arrogance. Although the evidence showed me to be right, I thought having a one up was more important. Now my once promising position is no more and my career in the FX industry is all but gone. All because I ran my mouth.

So, make peace and play nice. That certainly is OK.

Peace out.
Sean Burns
“Sean4000″

68. Your Friendly Neighborhood Mobile Emitter - June 7, 2009

Honest question – Lindelof had nothing to do with “First Contact.” Why is he recording an audio commentary for the film? I’d rather hear something from Jonathan Frakes, or someone who was actually involved in the production of the film.

Just my humble opinion.

69. CaptJake - June 8, 2009

charles trotter you are obviously in need of visit to the eye doctor,if you cant see the the major improvement in picture and sound quality of bluray over dvd.
then you are blind as a bat.

you are very misinformed,and spreading a lot of FUD about a format you dont own and obvisouly know nothing about.

or is it you are a person who feels burned that they picked hd dvd and it lost the format war.

in this day and age, you can get a great bluray player for under 199.99 and a decent hd tv for a reasonable price as well.

70. Dom - June 8, 2009

I’ve already got TOS season one Blu-ray on its way in the post and I’ll be grabbing the next two sets and Blu-ray ST09 like a shot. I wonder if there’s any discussion going on about an optional ‘special edition’ of ST09 reinstating some of the scenes cut for time/pacing in the theatrical cut.

No interest in the TNG films at all, I’m afraid (well, it’s a shame I won’t hear Anthony and gang’s commentary, but otherwise really not bothered.) Now I’ve got Kirk, Spock and McCoy back, I don’t need any other Trek!

71. Dom - June 8, 2009

TNG-R would be a huge and expensive undertaking. You’d have to go back the source rushes negs, re-telecine them, then reconform the episodes, possibly matching them by eye and replace all the special FX.

Crikey! Imagine all that work on seasons one and two of TNG, which even TNG fans admit aren’t very special. If you’re doing that big a reconstruction, you might as well do a recut of the episodes to improve pacing and story issues and replace the ‘sonic wallpaper’ music scores!

72. Trekee - June 8, 2009

I have to confess, I just got a massive bunch of overtime for last month so caved in and bought myself a PS3 to compensate for the exhaustion.

I was one of the suckers that bought an HD-DVD player partly for the TOS boxset and I’m doing this again because I can’t wait to see the new Trek film in high definition. I’m not going to buy tons of films in HD though, but Trek looked so very, very pretty in IMAX that Bluray will love it.

Given my track record with technology though, I’d expect Bluray to be declared obsolete in about a month’s time. Just warning you all.

73. Dom - June 8, 2009

Blu-ray’s doing pretty well for a ‘high-end’ format that reflects a technology that a lot of people are still buying in to. Thing is, a lot of the benefits of Blu-ray won’t be felt unless you buy a 1080p 24p-compatible TV. Most people have 1080i 60i/720p HD-Ready TVs, so they’ll see an improvement, but not as massive a one as if they have a full-HD TV.

For me, living in Europe, I’m getting a 1080p TV (there’s a Toshiba 32″ down to about £450 on Amazon) because we have the ‘PAL speed-up’ issue, where material shot at 24 frames per second is sped up to 25fps, which the PAL system runs at.

Unless the audio is pitch adjusted, everything runs with sound a bit higher-pitched than it should be. And, of course the performances are arguably effected, when, say, a dramatic pause is five per cent shorter than it should be.

For years, we’ve had this issue with US TV shows and movies and HD allows me finally to see the original Star Trek, for example, the way it should look and sound.

74. Joseph Coatar - June 8, 2009

i’m spoiled by blu, i can’t look at dvd anymore, bring it on please paramount

75. Dubb - June 8, 2009

Hey, let’s all buy PS3s… then, we can all play Mortal Kombat against each other online: BluRay lovers vs. BluRay haters! Then once we’re done playing, we can all use our PS3s to watch either DVDs or BluRays… so everyone wins! What d’ya say?

76. Sunfell - June 8, 2009

I’m starting to look into doing a major upgrade to my own AV systems and media. Haven’t decided if I am going to jump on the BluRay bandwagon yet or not- but I might get an external drive for my computer just for giggles.

Since prices have dropped so dramatically on HDTVs and similar gear, I’ll probably wade in and get myself a nice Samsung monitor and a decent home theater audio system. (I want to hear those bullets pinging in Trek’09!)

I just wish that CBS would quit milking us for every dime. I noticed the ‘best of’ DVD they put out in advance of the movie, and wonder why they only had 4 episodes on it? And I haven’t decided if I want to shell out for the remastered TOS set- but I might just for the home movies it has.

Sigh… the Star Trek Cash Cow is in the milking bay!

77. DavidL - June 8, 2009

May I ask a question? Why does every single news article spark such bitching sessions? I thought that Star Trek fans were supposed to believe in Gene’s ideals of life. You know the vulcan IDIC, and what not. I myself have a Blu-Ray player and I find them better then DVD. I have an upscaling DVD player and the movies thre look pretty good too. So what is the reason for the name calling, and rude statements? If someone wants to stick with DVD then good for them. It’s their right. If it is a movie I really like sometimes I will buy both, that way I can play the DVD in the portable DVD player for trips, and the blu-ray for home. Live and let live people. I think it’s really giving trekkies a bad name. Just look at some of the other threads too right now. Geez

78. DavidL - June 8, 2009

oh excuse me trekkers I dont want to start something else going lol

79. ChristopherPike - June 8, 2009

68. Because each of these sets carry a new commentary from so-called “uber fans”, in addition to the one from production personale carried over from the Special Edition sets.

80. Dom - June 8, 2009

77. DavidL

IDIC was about selling tacky hippie medals!

81. ChristopherPike - June 8, 2009

What are the chances of the first 10 Star Trek movies being released together as a set? Is the TOS/TNG divide a permanent marketing strategy within Paramount?

82. RD - June 8, 2009

71. Dom wrote: TNG-R would be a huge and expensive undertaking.

What makes you think they didn’t have to do all of that with TOS, or that TNG would be any more expensive?

The fact is, there is a huge syndication market for the TNG era shows. Everything from TNG, DS9, VOY & ENT have been sold all over the world and will continue to be sold for a long time. That catalogue is a major asset to CBS which is in the TV distribution business. Blu-ray is just icing on that cake.

TNG in particular was likely edited and composited on the state of the art Beta SP at the time, which only has a slightly better resolution than broadcast TV at 340×480 lines. That is not enough to even make a reasonable quality up-res to SD, much less HD or Blu-ray. The only way to preserve the series is to re-master them. Thankfully this series was shot on film so the final picture with new CGI effects will be stunning. Also, the CGI requires less work because unlike the original series, there is no need to significantly improve the old effects. The technology existed to show almost anything they wanted the way they wanted, so they merely need to copy existing shots. Sadly it will be less fun to work on than TOS was from that perspective.

But I assume you were joking because you don’t like TNG. This will eventually be done to every major syndicated series currently delivered in SD still in active distribution, from “I Love Lucy” to “Malcolm In The Middle”. Sadly the only shows that will never surpass their original NTSC broadcast resolution for future media were those shot on video tape like “All In The Family”, which will likely fade from syndication and into the history books.

83. xanman - June 8, 2009

Nemesis: Extended Edition.

Make it happen!

84. ML31 - June 8, 2009

Here is a vote for the deleted scenes from ST:09 to be integrated into the move. Preferably as a theatrical cut and one that includes the deleted scenes. This can be done on the same blu-ray!

85. CaptJake - June 8, 2009

I will be skipping the dork commentary tracks, on the tng releases but i am glad they are keeping all of the production commentary tracks ffrom the prior dvd releases.

I dont need to waste 6 to 8 hours of my life listening to a bunch of dorks talk about star trek, i think these commentary tracks done by Dorks add nothing to a release, except provide fodder for the average joe to make fun about. paramount should drop these and use the extra space for some new tracks by cast members or other production staff we havent heard talk abou tthe film yet.

86. Gilbert "Bud" Brazil - June 8, 2009

Unfortunatelly, TNG will never be HD because it was edited in SD, making it IMPOSSIBLE to be remastered in 720p or 1080p. It can be upscaled, but that is done with tandard DVD players. So, I think no one should buy TNG in BR. As to wether or not buy HD equipment, I believe it will only be a matter of time, because what we call now BR, Full HD, HD Ready, etc., will be obsolete. High Definitin WILL BE Standard Definition anytime soon. I chose to upgrade now, buyng a PS3 and a 50 inch Plasma TV (Playstation 3 is a MAJOR choice for its flexibility, like downloading films in High Definition in multiple formats). It was a lot of money (here in Brazil this equipment costs at least 3 times what it costs in the US!), but I did it because i like to enjoy myself. Life is short. I had a friend who always said he would wait for Plasma Tvs to be cheaper, but he died at 53 and didn´t enjoy anything. That´my opinion… Trek Kisses to all!

87. Lore - June 8, 2009

I recently pulled out my collection of DS9 dvd’s. When I bought them I still have a standard definition tv. I watched them on a 61″ HDTV and was dissappointed with the picture quality. When they release my favorite trek shows (AKA all of them) on Blue Ray, that is when I’ll be hooked into making the investment. Until then, as we say on Earth, So Be It.

BTW: I think the real battle is not BR vs DVD. It will be digital downloads vs both disk formats. In other words, convenience vs top quality. I’m betting on convenience. We will have our favorites on a menu on a hard drive of some kind. Of course I could be wrong.

88. Lore - June 8, 2009

#75 You’ll have to buy an xbox 360 to battle me online. Oops, am I starting something here.

89. RD - June 8, 2009

#86. I doubt Paramount will release TNG in Blu-Ray before they re-master. Though if they do, I would agree it would be a bad move and would avoid it like the plague.

However, since most of the exteriors are models shot on 35mm film not CGI on video, TNG re-mastering mostly means re-compositing as long as the model shots still look convincing. Only the optical effects added digitally, like phasers and transporters, would have to be re-created since they existed in video only. In theory TNG should go faster than TOS because the negatives are in better shape and fewer effects have to be re-created, or redesigned. If they decide to CGI all exterior shots as in TOS, then it will definitely be a more complicated project. However, they do have a pretty good CGI model of the 1701-D created for the Enterprise finale, so that’s half the battle. In which case they could produce 16:9 vfx as they did with Trek in anticipation of a 16:9 re-framing of the negatives. Otherwise the same re-cut in TNG would involve the exteriors as well and may not be as effective.

90. COMMANDER KEEN - June 8, 2009

“It’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas!!”

Can’t wait for all the goodies…..now I have to get a BR player :O

I hope the TNG BR comes out good qualitywise.

91. Scott Gammans - June 8, 2009

Blu-Ray sucks! HDTV sucks! Let’s hear it for stone knives and bearskins!

Sorry, couldn’t resist. :D

92. Dom - June 8, 2009

RD:

When TNG was shot on 35mm film, the ***rushes*** were telecined on to video tape, THEN edited ***on tape*** to create the finished episode. The 35mm rushes remain rushes and the identifying key numbers bear no reference to videotape timecodes.

TOS was a different matter. The shows were cut the old-fashioned way: using actual film to create a final print that could be used for broadcast, meaning the final cut episode exists on 35mm film stock. To reconstruct an episode from the earliest available materials, all they need is the key numbers on the film stock. Videotape isn’t involved.

All they needed to do to get a finished TOS episode on to HD for the TOS-R version was to scan the completed episode (I think they used an interpositive, but I might be mistaken.) Then they could do whatever they wanted. With TOS you have essentially 45 minutes of film to telecine, which is far less expensive than tracking down all the rushes.

TNG, unless they somehow telecined the key numbers on to the tapes and kept meticulous records, has no reference to reconform using key numbers from the negatives and to re-telecine all the elements would excruciatingly expensive. It would mean an extensive cataloguing job searching through all of the film material to identify the takes used on the original tapes and reconstructing them by eye.

With TNG, you’ll have hours and hours of raw footage and, believe me, telecine is a very, very expensive process, especially in HD, so it’s unlikely they’d consider doing that for all the elements of 179 shows.

As for TNG’s original FX, let’s be brutal, they look pretty naff. Many of them, especially from the early days of TNG, look little better than 1960s TOS: indeed they often look worse with an interlaced video look as a result of their compositing on video. Even later on, the ship is still an overlit, cheap-looking model by today’s standards. And the paucity of different ship shots means eyerolling repetition of the same flybys.

TOS-R has raised the bar for how the lighting, texture and detail on the ship should look. TNG’s original materials simply aren’t detailed or dynamic enough to pass muster after TOS-R and would require just as much effect replacement. TOS-R was created as a cost-effective way to make TOS marketable again in the HD age. A hypothetical TNG-R would need to be of a similar standard.

Even with the considerable fanbase for TNG and its stablemates CBS/Paramount would have to consider whether what is now little more than archive schedule filler is worth investing that much money on. Even with a large fanbase, can they make their money back from effectively restarting post-production on seven years of TNG from scratch in HD? Possibly not: the labour costs will be horrific!

As for other shows you mention and I know are available in HD: I Love Lucy, The Twilight Zone and so on, these all exist as fully cut episodes on film stock. There’s a particular period between the 1980s and 1990s where everything was cut on SD video from film rushes telecines rather than on good old-fashioned Steenbecks. These productions represent an unfortunate transitional phase in the business and suffer from the usage of an inadequate tape format. I doubt a lot of TV shows from that era will ever get genuine HD versions, simply because of the expense.

And, just so you know, this isn’t a ‘Dom doesn’t like TNG so he’s stamping his foot and huffing!’ thing with me. I’m not stupid or arrogant enough to think I have any sway with anyone and why would I want people not to watch something they enjoy?

I’ve been interested in restorations of old shows for years. I read the Doctor Who Restoration Team website for all their fascinating technical reports on the magic they’ve worked on the original Doctor Who series. I work in the TV business and I was completely in favour of TOS-R from the start when many screamed ‘Heresy!’ having been appalled at the state of the episodes on the DVDs from the early 2000s.

I would love to see an HD version of some of TNG: stuff like The Best of Both Worlds with new FX, HD picture quality and a fresh colour grade: yum! But the expense is probably prohibitive for nearly 200 episodes. Wait and see is probably the best approach: uprezzing technology is improving all the time!

93. Sean4000 - June 8, 2009

That’s why a “best of” set is a good option.

Like you said, let’s wait and see.

94. RD - June 8, 2009

Dom, there is no way to upres a 340 horizontal line resolution off Beta SP or D1/D2 and have it look good. Ever. If the resolution wasn’t there to begin with, it never will be.

Granted I do not know exactly how TNG was finished. Do you know for a fact that’s how it was done? I also work in television and most TV is produced the same way today as it was in the 80s, the rushes are telecined to digital files (instead of Beta SP) which are then edited in an Avid, rather than dozens of decks. Meticulous records ARE kept for eventual color correction, also an extremely expensive process, and conforming the original negatives to the edited changes. In the case of TNG, my guess is the vfx team did the same with the models. Then the digital layer was created. The final conformed prints, though not physically assembled on 35mm was likely on D-1 or D-2 which was then composted with the additional effects layers, which would suffer no quality loss.

My point is, they would have had to go back and conform the original negatives in a color corrected master video due to the quality loss from editing on Beta SP. If they did not do this, then you are right it would be a terribly expensive process to catalogue everything. Then again they would be the only TV show I’ve ever seen that did it. Considering the state of the art vfx at the time, I would be surprised they would create their live action master from a multiple generation edited video.

As for the models, I don’t know that they would not hold up since I have never seen the original footage. As you say all I have seen is the relatively poor NTSC composites, more than likely 340×480 upres to 720×480 (SD), which is going to make anything look bad. Nevertheless, if they don’t work, then they’ll definitely have to do more work in CGI.

I do know CBS has been getting bids from post houses in Hollywood, which make sense if they are going to have to go back to the individual elements and re-conform a new color-corrected HD digital master, rather than clean up a finished 35mm print (my understanding is they did that for a number of TOS shots as well). Either way, not sure why CBS would shop such a prohibitively expensive project unless A) It wasn’t prohibitively expensive, or B) they are complete morons and didn’t realize it would be prohibitively expensive. I would have to go with option A.

Otherwise, CBS might as well throw away hundreds of episodes of product which will never earn enough money to justify the expense, after all, it costs a lot over time to store the elements in the salt mines too.

95. --Mandalore-- - June 8, 2009

@87
Of course the problem with that is bandwidth. Maybe in a few years, sure. But not anytime soon.

Look people you can pick up a HD projection tv for relatively cheap.
I purchased one a year ago, a 52′ 1080p projection tv for a little over $600.
Of course its more bulky than a LCD or plasma but it works just as good.

Well thats my two-cents.

–M–

96. Spock - June 9, 2009

“By the way I participated in some of the special features for the TNG Blu-ray set. I, along with Larry Nemecek and Jeff Bond, did a kind of video fan discussion of each film, which will appear on each of the movie disks. In addition, I recorded the audio commentary for Star Trek First Contact along with Damon Lindelof. Both were very fun experiences and I hope you all enjoy them.”

That sounds positively dull.

97. CaptJake - June 9, 2009

spock you are right, it does sound dull, and kind of gloating on his part.

like is said dork fan commentary tracks like these appear to be add nothing but fuel for the average joe to use to make fun of trek fans

98. Dom - June 9, 2009

94. RD: ‘Dom, there is no way to upres a 340 horizontal line resolution off Beta SP or D1/D2 and have it look good. Ever. If the resolution wasn’t there to begin with, it never will be.’

Frankly, I think TNG’s quality was always pretty dreadful: I remember, as a teenager, peering at the screen trying to figure out whether or not it was video.

‘I also work in television and most TV is produced the same way today as it was in the 80s, the rushes are telecined to digital files (instead of Beta SP) which are then edited in an Avid, rather than dozens of decks.’

Trouble is, the scanning nowadays is sorted so we have an HD image in the first place. Digital editing back when TNG started was in its infancy – Avid/1 didn’t even enter stage left until the end of the 1980s.

Records from even 10 years ago are often surprisingly sparce and prone to misfiling and corruption. Believe me, I’m working on a compilation show at the moment and the lack of information and distortion of information is terrifying!

‘Considering the state of the art vfx at the time, I would be surprised they would create their live action master from a multiple generation edited video.’

They would presumably autoconform from the rushes tapes at the end of the job: that’s what I started out doing in the 1990s! It’s also possible that the master is a now a D3 tape. Remember, Digibeta didn’t even show up until 1993, so we were all pretty much dependent on analogue back then. I was dealing with Beta SP (horrible format that gets worse year by year) all the way until 2000-ish. The BBC in the last decade or so spent a fortune transferring all of its archive materials to D3s.

‘As for the models, I don’t know that they would not hold up since I have never seen the original footage.’

Compare the CGI Enterprise-D models seen in subsequent shows and Generations with the materials from the original show. A CGI makeover would be essential, given TOS-R’s improvements.

‘not sure why CBS would shop such a prohibitively expensive project unless A) It wasn’t prohibitively expensive, or B) they are complete morons and didn’t realize it would be prohibitively expensive.’

The fact that they’re shopping it around shows that they know it’s a huge and expensive undertaking and that they’re looking for the best deal. They might have to do that for a long time. That they’re looking shows that there’s the willingness to consider doing the job, but not necessarily the determination, if it does turn out to be prohibitively expensive. If it was definitely cheap, they’d have launched TNG-R as soon as TOS-R finished (although I’d have gone for a TAS-R first ;))

‘Otherwise, CBS might as well throw away hundreds of episodes of product which will never earn enough money to justify the expense, after all, it costs a lot over time to store the elements in the salt mines too.’

They’ll never get rid of the film elements (actually, I qualify that remark with the knowledge of how much material has been maltreated, lost, misfiled or stupidly junked down the years!) in order potentially to exploit them in the future, but the time and financial viability is now or some years off is another question.

My guess is that if they get a decent deal, they’ll pick a story like The Best of Both Worlds which can be marketed as a standalone film (‘The Prequel to Star Trek: First Contact!’) to test the waters in terms of time, budget and sales. If it looks viable, they can go ahead with it. If not, it’ll still be something they can consider in the future.

Nice talking to you, btw. :)

99. Daniel Shock - June 9, 2009

Dom, RD, LoyalStarTrekFan – thanks for all the info! I really hope TNG-R happens…. I do see that its a huge task. But, I would think, worth the investment in the long run… to continue to realize any value from the TNG series.

100. RD - June 9, 2009

#97. Dom, I have been looking for detail about how TNG was done for years. Now that you say it, I suspect you may be right about conforming the rushes, however, that is an awful lot of careful telecine and color timing for a lot of what will ultimately become unused footage. The shows I worked on in that period re-conformed to the original shots used and did brand new telecine transfers and color correction, and therefore detailed EDLs were kept. Then again they were not heavy vfx shows. However, even if this were so for TNG, there is no guarantee that those handwritten lists were maintained with the original elements once the final show was conformed to a video master.

I did come across this article last nigh which highlights some other problemst:
http://digitalcontentproducer.com/mag/video_tales_hd_trenches_2/

Evidently the show was finished on analogue 1″ and later D-1 (which is surprising because D-2 was the standard from 1988 onward). That’s why the early shows in particular look like video. The quality of the original master was only equivalent to 340×480 scan lines, slightly better than broadcast TV. When I view the SD episodes on my HD set, it actually looks better if I view it as 4:3 which removes about half the doubled horizontal scan lines added when upres-ed to 720×480. The later D-1 masters supported full 720×480, though it was likely teleceined via the standard analogue NTSC broadcast resolution, but has held up better having a digital master, one generation removed, rather than an analogue-to-digital, 2 generations removed.

The Moore interview makes it clear that the vfx were not consistently conformed to 3:2 pulldown which is what the live action footage is. Which means, even if they chose to go back to the original video elements, clean them up and re-composite them, they wouldn’t be able to in all cases. This most likely means CGI would be more cost effective than reusing the original 35mm model shots, especially since they almost certainly were telecine video masters given their final disposition and never went back to the original negatives.

I would tend to agree regardless of what condition the original film elements are in, or how good the corresponding EDLs are that CBS’s strategy would be best served by taking the TNG fans list of top episodes and start creating new masters from it. In particular the 2-part episodes which would make good stand-alone movies if they decide to pull the plug on a full re-mastered syndication package.

However, I think you underestimate the value of TNG and DS9 to CBS. At a bare minimum, even if EDLs don’t exist to re-create the final live action cuts, they will need to transfer those negatives to HD for preservation. At that point it is a matter of finding cheap labor to re-edit the show from those HD elements. Who knows, perhaps we have a whole new export to Bollywood in much the same way we ship our tedious animation to China and corporate data input to India. Though time-consuming, how difficult can it be to match edits? CGI would mostly be academic as well. Perhaps even a routine could be written that scans the existing scene and automatically duplicates it using new models. In the end, it is in CBS’ best interest to preserve the property which 20 years from now should be every bit as valuable as TOS has been. And the sooner they do it, the sooner they can begin exploiting it. Besides, I seriously doubt that we’ve seen the last of video tampering on TOS. There will eventually be the 16:9 version which has been re-framed. Then the new and improved re-mastered episode which improves the vfx and fixes all those things that were too expensive to touch this time around. Perhaps even a version down the line which maps Chris Pine’s image over Shatner’s for today’s ST09 fans 40 years from now.

101. Dom - June 9, 2009

Hey RD! Thanks for the link. I’ll give it a proper look later on when I finish work: I’m going to end up doing about 15 hours today (grrr!)

102. Markus McLaughlin - June 9, 2009

Blu-Ray’s successor IS coming, wait 3 more years for it, it can hold 100 times BD and 1000 times DVD quality, patience is a VIRTUE!

Markus McLaughlin
linuxglobe at twitter.com
Hudson, MA, USA

103. tom v inelli - June 9, 2009

i can tell you startrek movies bd vs dvd big jump.as bill hunt pointed out
40” screen or less your not going to notice all the dnr.52” to 110” you start to see dnr.bill also pointed out studios are looking at bd movies on very large screens.and that means cutting back on dnr.

104. tom v inelli - June 9, 2009

44 get use to it,any new technology from here on out ,you will have upgrade something.its always been that way.hd is here to stay in one form or another.as i said you’ll always have to upgrade to get it.
the other thing is blu-ray as a technology is wonderful.its the studio’s that put out crap looking blu-ray movies.but blu-ray itself can be 10 times better then dvd if the studio’s stop screwing around with dnr ,ee and just give us great looking bd s

105. CaptJake - June 9, 2009

rd hate to break it to you but there is no way in HECK that anyone would buy a star trek tos with friggin chris pine face mapped over shatners.

if that were to ever happen i would never buy any trek series ever again.

106. RD - June 9, 2009

#105 and yet some people will only watch the colorized version of “It’s A Wonderful Life”. Go figure. I wasn’t serious by the way …

107. Dom - June 10, 2009

102. Markus McLaughlin

I’ve had enough of waiting. I know the new discs have been developed, but the question is whether we ***need*** discs that big. Most movies fit comfortably on a BD and look great when properly encoded.

We’re reaching a plateau for now where, while the technology drives ever forward, the home user is probably going to be sorted. I sincerely doubt that the new discs are going to be necessary for domestic viewing. DVD has lasted over a decade and been mainstream for less than that, mostly because of the drive towards high definition.

Obsolescence of DVD is related to other equipment improving rather than a flaw in DVD itself. Had HD not come into play, DVD would likely have continued for years more. Blu-ray isn’t going anywhere for a while. Uptake is pretty good and people are only just now starting to move towards full-HD, rather than HD-Ready.

For professional storage and backups, the new discs will probably find their niche. I doubt that we’ll see 4K TVs for easily another decade and certainly the TV industry won’t be looking to upgrade after the expense and complications still dogging it in light of the ongoing move to HD.

108. Unbel1ever - June 12, 2009

Amazon.de lists Star Trek for a October 30th DVD release.

109. Simon Hanson - June 20, 2009

Acording to a reliable source official website The Next Generation Movie Boxset, Star Trek TOS Season 3 on Blu-Ray and Star Trek XI will be released sometime in October, but no exact date has been set yet.

Star Trek TOS Season 2 however has set a release date which is September 22nd

http://www.releaselists.com/BLURAYNorthAmerica.html

I got this above link apparantly this is a website which lists Releases acording to their present releae date.

110. Christle - July 10, 2009

Just have to briefly add my two cents about Blu-Ray versus normal DVDs, then I’ll get talking about the movie.

I’m a DVD fan, but my grandparents are Blu-Ray fans, if I want to watch extra special features, I’ll just watch one of their films, if not, I’ll rent or buy it on normal DVD and watch it on my player, that way I can watch on my laptop as well.

Okay, now that I said that…anyone got any ideas on special features for the movie, any theories on if there’ll be deleted scenes and commentaries? Those are always my favourite part of any DVD, I love watching the movie once, then seeing it with commentary as well.

111. Chris Weir - August 7, 2009

I don’t understand what there isn’t to like with Blue Ray. We’ve just revampted the house, and invested in a Samsung HD 1080p TV and Blue Ray and it’s night and Day compared to DVD, Anyone who says otherwise either hasn’t set it up right, or is too blind that it wouldn’t matter anyway. The quality is far superior to DVD.

Also, it doesn’t stop you using your current dvd collection so how is this a way for the studios to milk more money out of you?

I remember the skeptics when DVD 1st came out, this is just a repeat and Blue Ray will be the default tech within 5 years, guarranteed. Especially when HD becomes the norm, DVD will be defunct.

I”m looking forward to ST’09 on blue ray, was a fantastic trek movie and did a decent job of bringing trek back without upsetting too many trekies (including myself), and once out, I hope to get all the movies on BR.

112. Walt - August 13, 2009

I have a Sony XBR 52″, and I find that regular old DVD’s look good enough.

BluRay discs will not work in my portable DVD player, nor will they work in car’s DVD player. And I am NOT about to buy both the DVD and the BD copies of the same title. It would be insane to even think of doing that.

Unfortunately, 5″ video discs in general, regardless of format, will become defunct long before BD could ever overtake DVD’s in sales. That means BD is predestined to be another short-lived format.

When the new Star Trek movie comes out on Nov 17, I will buy the regular DVD version.

113. Donnetta Bingle - April 21, 2011

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