Orci & Kurtzman Talk Star Trek Lessons & Sequel June 16, 2009
by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Orci/Kurtzman, Star Trek (2009 film), Star Trek sequel (2012) , trackback
Roberto Orci, Alex Kurtzman, and Damon Lindelof have yet to dive into the script for the sequel to the Star Trek movie (aka "Star Trek: Something Something"), but they have until Christmas to deliver it. Before they do, they are still taking stock of the first one. In a new interview, Bob and Alex talk about the lessons learned from Star Trek and the big question for the second.
Full interview is available at SciFiWire, here are some excerpts:
Lessons from first Star Trek
Orci and Kurtzman said that initial tracking for Star Trek looked like it may fall short of expectations, but that at the last minute there was a surge that Paramount attributed to world of mouth. And Orci feels that fans helped fuel that word of mouth to make Star Trek the hit:
Orci: It was the first time we had seen word of mouth in action, so that was fascinating. And we’re so grateful that most of the fan base was open about it, and that new people were willing to risk being in a room with people who speak Klingon.
Orci also talked about some lessons they have learned::
Orci: I think the major lesson we learned is that fans were willing to accept differences and surprises, provided that they were somehow echoes or inspired by canon. We still have to be true to Star Trek the next time around, but we’ve also been blessed with being able to be unpredictable. And that doesn’t mean we can just be shocking for no good reason and just throw everything away. … It still has to echo everything that Star Trek has been.
The big question regarding the sequel
As for the next movie, Orci agreed that they are having the same debate that the fans are having
SFW: In thinking of a story, the inclination for a fan would be to see a new version of a story that’s been told in some fashion. Or to pick up tropes from one of the TV episodes or the films and maybe combine them. Or is your inclination to do a completely original story this time?
Orci: Well, that is the debate, literally. And that is going to be one of the first conversations that we have. But that’s exactly the question.
That question is at the core of what to do next. This weekend TrekMovie will be running an editorial on this issue, but what do you think? Let us know in the comments below and in the current poll (right sidebar).
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Comments»
Make it original, please!
New stories with tiny crossovers and old references = HIT MOVIE!
I vote new story, with some threads echoing events of TOS. I also hope for something exploration or first contact based.
And of course, Jolene Blalock as T’Pring.
Please Please Please make it original, I agree. We have had all these alone with the pre-existing Star Trek universe, its episodes, themes, characters, etc. That was all truly great- but when we finally get something new, why would we want rehashes of the same stuff? I don’t even understand why this is a topic.
It’s about exploring, seeking out new life and new civilizations, and boldy going where no one has gone before…So why in blazes would we want to rehash things?
I had hoped to hear that Orci & Kurtzman had realized how important the long established Trek fan base has been to this movie’s success and perhaps move in a direction back toward a more traditional Trek film in its style and pacing.
I agree Weerd1. No more bad guys out to destroy the earth. You can keep it true to the meaning of the words “Star Trek” and still have it be exciting. Give it a try.
Character developement and more about how the crew forges their friendships. I agree with #1, #2 and #3 – New story
Just make it good, either way. And (it almost pains me to say this) don’t let JJ Abrams hand off the director’s chair. His pacing was essential to ST09 being enjoyable.
5 -Wouldn’t moving back toward “a more traditional Trek film” be counter-intuitive because the movie WAS successful with fans new and old?
5: “and perhaps move in a direction back toward a more traditional Trek film in its style and pacing.”
In other words: A boring film that no one outside of Trekkies will bother to go see.
Originality is key. It will be Star Trek, even if the villain is one we’ve never seen before.
They should discuss the Vulcan diaspora as well. And enough with the time travel!
We need a new story, but keep away from the whole “This giant ship/being/device/god-like creature is going to destroy Earth” story line, they’re getting old. Definitely a new story with a focus on exploration with a bunch of little TOS tidbits. The first movie obviously needed an urgency to it because of who was threatening them and what had to occur, but the next film can slow down a little.
And we need more beauty shots of the big E!
I think it should be something new.. Since we are now in an unpredictable universe with the new timeline and all, I just think rehashing an old episode or combining elements would be too easy. Do something original, and good, with nods to canon, but make it different. As a long time Star Trek fan, I think we need to see something new and fresh. I’ve seen all the episodes from all the series, so in my opinion, I would want something very new and different.
My one gripe though is this size issue that keeps coming up. I know this new ship is supposed to be the size of a Star Destroyer, but having it that big makes the ship seem almost invulnerable and less intimate.Add to the fact that whatever Abrams wants to say about the size, many, many scenes just don’t prove it out, so I guess the ILM guys didn’t get the memo. I just think that haveing the ship stay around the size of the original gives it a more intimate setting, making the crew come together as a family more. It’s kind of like growing up in a small town as opposed to a big city. When something happens in your small town, you care more. When it happens in a big city, it’s far more impersonal. I think that would translate to the story as well.
Hopefully someone from the “Supreme Court” is listening…
The single biggest error Paramount -ever- did with the Star Trek franchise… is hand it off to a new director every other movie.
“And that doesn’t mean we can just be shocking for no good reason and just throw everything away.”
I guess destroying Vulcan for no good reason doesn’t count…
Wookiees. Give us more Wookiees this time.
Original story. Also, as much as I love the guy………NO SHATNER!!!! Don’t want a theme with these, you know, bring in Uhura or Chekov for the third. Please, no guest stars…….just the new crew.
16
It could be like the Love Boat.
I agree with #8 – just make it good, either way. Though please make it something deeper. Put in enough action and viz effects to blow my mind during the film, BUT put in something deep and thought provoking that makes me think about what I saw after the film.
And nothing against the composer…but I’d like something that sounds more “Star Trek” like…or create a more memorable theme. The only music I can still hum in my head from the movie is the ending – and that’s music that’s been around for over 40 years! I want a new theme for my new Star Trek!
If Star Trek cannot tell original new stories, then it is dead, so let’s see something we haven’t seen before, please. In particular, I don’t want to see a movie based around a rehash of an old TOS character like Harry Mudd or Khan.
I’d prefer it not be about saving the Earth again either, there was too much of that in the previous TOS movies and it all ended up a bit parochial. The original TOS galaxy was big and largely unexplored- the Enterprise was very much out on the “frontier”. So I’d like something that encapsulates that spirit.
I’m interested to see what roles the rethunk cast will play as a cohesive crew, which we didn’t see properly this time around as it was their first time out, Kirk wasn’t captain etc. Particularly as Chekov has been perhaps the most re-imagined as the boy genius. Traditionally Spock was the genius, and I’m surrpised actually that there hasn’t been more discussion of the scene in which Chekov was the one to tell Spock what was happening to Vulcan and how long the planet had to live- in a TOS episode Spock would have been the one to make the pronoucement, “minutes”. I’m not criticising, just pointing out that this makes for a considerably different dynamic. We now have Scotty the engineering genius, Spock the genius, and Chekov the genius too. This is actually going to make Spock’s role on the bridge a little less well defined, though I actually like Spock being a bit “depowered” in this sense. In the original, he was smarter and stronger and longer lived and had telepathic powers… having somebody else at least be the clever clogs spreads the powers around a bit.
Anyway I’m looking forwards to the new movie, but I hope to see development in a new and engagingly original direction, not a remake of The Doomsday Machine, which is a fabulous episode but should be left that way. Or if I see a discussion a year from now about “who is going to be playing Khan”, well, I’ll feel very very disappointed.
Re-do Catspaw, except with nudity.
I would keep the story original but yet expand on something not dealt with too much in the prime timeline.
With all the different incarnations of Trek (including the novels), all the backstory woven into franchise, and the differences established in the alternate reality – there just seems to be little reason to go with retelling an old story. In other words, do we really need a retelling of Kahn? How about taking an unexplored event in the prime timeline, see how it fits in the alternate reality, and then take it from there?
The writers have taken the liberty of not pressing the reset button at the end of this time travel story. They should take advantage of that. The sky’s certainly the limit..!
OK. Put Carol Marcus in the sequel, pregnant with Kirk’s son, but she goes on the Enterprise with Kirk. Federation about to go to war with Klingons. Big battle. In a scene parallel to opening of first movie, Carol goes into labor during attack and is evacauted, but the shuttle is destroyed by the Klingons. Kirk is out for vengenance against the Klingons. Kirk and Spock go under cover on the Klingon’s base on Organia. Kirk is conflicted between his mission to gather intelligence for StarFleet’s attack, or just kill as many of the Klingons (lead by Kang) as he can right there. He is also compelled to help the Organians, who don’t seem to be want to help themselves…
18- Really? I love the new music- the orchestral arrangement when the E comes out of warp to destroy the missiles heading for Spock is epic- lots of good brass. I’ve had it playing in my car for weeks.
Cinefex magazine has an article from Alex Jaeger (sp?) saying they designed the new E to be 366 meters long, but upsized when they saw the size of the physical shuttle models. I vote we call that the inconsistency and keep the new E more homey.
Oops, I meant Kor.
For those who are clamoring for something “original”, be careful what you wish for. “Original” ideas brought us Insurrection, Generations and ST:V.
Don’t just go with “original” for “originals” sake. Please. Go with what works. ST092 has to feel like a movie, not an overcooked episode. I’m not going to plunk down $11 to watch our protagonists gape at a view screen for two hours straight.
@19
I’m sure Spock would have been so on that if he’d been at his station. But I do agree with you, Spock was a bit OP in TOS =)
I agree with #2
Another vote for something new for the next film. Lets see some actual exploration for once. And no Khan. Frankly no actor can do Khan like Mantalbon, so its best to leave that character be. I like Mudd and wouldn’t be upset if I saw him again, but as others said I’d like to see something different for once.
#23- Are you serious? Do you really want to see another movie about battles again? Almost every other Star Trek movie was about that, not to mention how ever many tv episodes. Space battles are getting old and overdone. I vote for something completely new and that we haven’t seen yet.
it has to be completely original… please no khan just because he’s star trek’s main established villain. Original stand alone story and an original never before seen villain.
New story. Explore the relationships you started in the current movie i.e. Kirk/Spock, Kirk/Spock/Mcoy, Spock/Uhura (this one in particular has sparked a lot of YouTubes and is popular among women), Pike/Eveyone.
Sorry I love Bill but please no more old cast – we have DVDs for that and fan based episodes for the canon obsessed.
You can have a more meaningful or deeper theme if you you would like but you still need to keep the action piece in tact.
The next story has been my concern since seeing the new film. We don’t want a Quantum of Solace- a decidedly average film following a very good one. Roberto and Alex have truly got a big task on their hands.
I find it easier saying what I don’t want rather than what I do want. I don’t want Khan. I don’t want Borg. No cameos. No threats to Earth.
Yeh, like others have said- Harry Mudd would be interesting. A new big screen villain like Harry would have possibilities. Beyond that I’m not sure!
@ 29
I agree. Id like to see some actual exploration too. A classic away-team-finds-something-weird-redshirt-dies-first kind of movie. No dwelling on past events.
But wait. Keep in mind that this is 10, 15 years before the TOS pilot, before Cage, before Talos iv… So who knows.
I’m going to have to go with the so-far unanimous vote (I think, at least. I honestly haven’t read every comment so far. But it seems that way) and say “new story.”
“Space, the final frontier…
These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise.
Her ongoing mission: to explore strange new worlds,
To seek out new life forms and new civilizations,
To boldly go where no one has gone before.”
“Where no one has gone before.” Please note that, Boborci. New stories are key to telling Trek. But yes, it also needs to be deeper than a vengeful Romulan bent on galactic destruction. That was good as an intro, but now it’s time to deliver some meat onto the franchise.
Maybe they could write a movie where a scruffy extroverted Vulcan hijacks the Enterprise to go find God, and they can have an $11 CGI budget and Kirk Spock McCoy and Uhura can wear combat uniforms that look like pajamas and oh wait….
The new movie was crazy. The enterprise as big as a sovereign class, Checkov an ensign (when he was supposed to be still a small kid by the time), Kirk becoming captain fresh out of the academy, spock just happened to end up on delta vega, where scotty was… the crew just happened to end up together so early? As if it was fate. Maybe it was. And Nero doing nothing for 25 years? Is he crazy? he could have taken over the entire federation if he wanted to, or even destroy it.
JarJar Abrams wanted to make this his own. He could have made a better movie. Why change the look of the enterprise. It could have been great. I mean when you at the kelvin bridge, its akin to the old trek design only upgraded. That bridge could have been the enterprise bridge, only a bit brighter, with one big window/screen. Fewer Pipes and brewery, of course.
I want a sequel to the “Star Trek-Enterprise”-series.
Why not in a movie with Captain Archer and T´ Pol?
For me the one thing missing in Pine’s Kirk that Shatner’s Kirk had in droves was a sense of wonder about the universe and exploration, which to me was the core of the character. I understand in an origin story you only have so much time for exposition but a 2 minute scene with Kirk and say…a girl with Kirk dreamily looking into the night sky(as she dreamily looks at Kirk ;) with a look of fascination and wonder on his face,(something Pine could easily pull off) a few poetic words later from Pine, and you have established an important quality in Kirk’s character.
Kirk is an explorer (who also happens to like hot girls and fighting!- but they are simply the icing on a bigger cake)
It was the explorer in Kirk that attracted me to the show as a child in the first place. I would look up at the stars at night and imagine what was really out there and how incredible it would be to poke around up there. Perhaps the next film could at least touch on that as the Kirk character grows and matures. I absolutely loved the film by the way, everyone did a fantastic job, but I would like to dig a little deeper into these characters and their core motivations for being out there in the first place.(and lots more fights as well!)
: )
I think the next one has a few tall orders:
- About something found during Exploration, something completely unknown to them.
- Give them a MYSTERY to challenge them. Someone or something that they do not fully understand.
- Have some high stakes and a fast pace. Perhaps placing one of the crew in need of rescue?
I think first some issues regarding size need to be resolved. The Enterprise is not that big. You can even tell in that pan shot when the camera zooms out from the window of the bridge.
Also by the end of this series the time line needs to be fixed. I know this is a new time line for new stories, but in the end it needs to be resolved
So Mr Orci and Mr Kurtzman, get into your cars, drive to a secluded spot on a clear night and lay on the hoods of your cars and look up at the sky and wonder.
I guarantee you, you’ll be inspired by the real thing.
I vote for a retelling of “A Piece of the Action” with James Gandolfini as Krako and an aged JJ Abrams as Oxmyx!
I am a Trekkie/Trekker from the very first episode and have absorbed every version of Star Trek since. Was part of the letter writing campaigns to bring back TOS & name the Space Shuttle Enterprise. Star Trek was a major influence in my choice of careers. Played a Vulcan in a MUSH version of ST:TOS (textbased RPG).
Please please please please DO NOT remake any of the old stories. We KNOW the old stories like the back of our hand, it is canon and it is set!
What I hunger for in future Star Trek is new adventures, new worlds and new civilizations… boldly take us where we have not been before.
Come on guys. I cringe every time I hear of a new ‘remake’ of an old classic. I don’t know about others… to me there are tons of untold tales of our future in Space. How many generations has Star Trek touched? It is time for new blood and new tales, not retelling the old ones.
Just dont do an Insurrection 2…Pleeeeeaaaassssseeeee….
I want something original! There could be some fun elements of older stories worked in but I don’t want it to be the main plot.
I definitely want a new story.
Also, to whoever is doing this, please stop with the Jar Jar Abrams B.S. It makes you look completely ignorant.
And I’ll keep saying this. Most of the hard cores wouldn’t have even known that the engine room was a brewery unless you had been told.
How about a Klingon story. A Mirror Mirror story. Or something that is later than where the original show ended. Maybe a Mirror Mirror story from our side of the mirror.
I liked Insurrection. :P
BUT PLEASE Original!!! Why go out of your way to bitch about how all how Klingons and Romulans and their overuse was KILLING THE FRANCHISE and that was why a new TOS UNIVERSE needed to be created – and then turn around and just rehash the same stuff – that you bitched was killing the franchise?!
New please and original and maybe…could ya lay off the cliches the next time fellas?
By the by, I love the new movie, well done, actors well chosen to match the adults pretty well, better than I expected frankly. Only problem I had was the Spock & Uhura thing.
I just cannot see the young Spock giving in to emotions when fighting that very thing so hard all the rest of the time. Could be worked out maybe to be explained in the future why Spock & Uhura never expressed any knowledge of each other in that way.
Rubs the Vulcan in me the wrong way. :)
JJ, Bob & Alex Read this
- No Saving the Earth and/or the mighty federation plot.
- No rehash of Characters/Plots from old episodes (khan, mudd, talos)
- No romulan, vulcan, klingon, and earth major plots
- Not too much lens glare. A few is okay.
- No pipes and brewery
- More epic-looking Starships floating in space (view outside the viewscreen of the other ships warping out)
- More alien babes
- More Exploration of New worlds and civilization.
- Its time to distance this new Trek from old Trek. Kill off Old Spock. (He has served his purpose as a transitional tool from Prime Timeline to New Timeline.
- Kirk doesn’t have the experience of the Prime Kirk post-academy. Make him more mature.
- Change chekov’s hair
- Nurse Chapel
- Weird spatial anomalies
- Less Apple-like designs
- Explorations, Good dialogs, Good Characterizations, Actual good Plot = Good Movie.
new stories, with references, hints and nods to previous Star Trek is fine by me.
IMO there is no need for Khan 2.0 or the like
A good sequel idea(IMO) is an exploration of the Laurentian system. WHY is the majority of Starfleet engaged there, what’s SO important about winning, if it’s a prolonged battle, and WHAT happens with all the black holes that were opened up in ST09?
Please, no Klingons, Tholians or god forbid, Romulans. Past 2 movies, Romulans, i’m done with ‘em.
@TerilynnS I like the cliches! They’re part of the whole feel of the thing.
I’m a fan not a doctor!
Wyn*.
I think that the next one should be done like an Indiana Jones movie in space. A rollicking adventure of planetary exploration, with a main villain/conflict to tie the whole thing together. Maybe even open the film with a retelling of the end of a TOS episode, but make the main story and conflict original.
Don’t nix the lens flares. They’re a cool filmic element and add a sense of realism to the film.
FIIIRRRSSTTTT!!!!!!!!
Bring on twice the lens flares and make the sequel a retelling of Spock’s Brain1 I just watched that one today and don’t udnerstand why people don’t like it!
FIRST! YEeeaaAAH!!
(my dream sequel)
A J.J. Abrams production …
A Nicholas Meyer film …
STAR TREK: THE DOOMSDAY DEVICE
Reinvigorate Matt Decker as you did with Christopher Pike, but throw out the plot outlines of the original. Let’s face it, in this new, alternate reality, the planet killer should be on its way to our galaxy regardless. It doesn’t care about Nero or Spock Prime or black holes. It just consumes planets.
If you like, leave out Matt Decker. But there’s never been anything in theaters like the planet killer. It can’s be reasoned with, bargained with or otherwise made to veer from its primary function.
It’s a Maguffin and villain all in one, and a great slate on which to project action, real scientific inquiry and mystery, and an opportunity to plumb the depths of these re-invigorated characters.
# 37+ 51
chronic
I congratulate you on being so eloquent in your points about the franchise and movie……well done!!!
Please, everyone, go back and read what was written in those posts…………….profound!!
15
There was good reason.
#60
I’m sure it was………………….logical!
@ 56. SChaos1701 – Lens flares add realism? Time for new contact lenses dude. ; )
Do a remake of Amok Time… Oh wait, Vulcan is gone.
I’m sure they’ll come up with something original like putting the 10,000 surviving Vulcans in a ragtag, fugitive sub-light fleet, on a lonely quest—for a shining planet known as Romulus.
42
Good suggestion!
I was under the impression that the reason for setting the new Trek in a parallel universe was so that we wouldn’t be “stuck” with what happened in TOS.
So for goodness sake – NEW story!! Otherwise you undermine your own argument about why you messed with the timeline in the first movie!
And I agree – no threats to earth this time, please. Go seek out new life and new civilisations.
I’d like a thoughful piece, dealing with complicated issues and showing depth of characterization while keeping the humour and warmth of the last film.
With massive effects and gritty realism please.
Nods to TOS are fine though. But original story is a must imho.
The first movie shows a lot of potential, considering. The biggest test of this formula would be to make something new. Go original, fellas, don’t shirk from the challenge either!
A Re-Make of the Space Hippie episode
#66
M’yeah!!
I really hope they don’t choose to do a retelling of an episode. They have a huge, new field to play in now, there’s no need to stick with the old playbook.
The new movie is set seven years before TOS even begins, so they really don’t even need to worry about stories set during TOS right now. That said, there’s no reason they can’t include a villain or two from TOS; I wouldn’t mind seeing Kor or Harry Mudd making an appearance, or even the Romulan commander from “Balance of Terror.” Just as long as it makes sense for the movie.
One thing I would like to see in the new movie (though it doesn’t necessarily need to be the prime focus of the film) is how the events of the first movie impacted the Federation’s relations with the Romulan Empire. I would also like to see some Klingons make an appearance (maybe even Kor, Kang, and/or Koloth).
However, I think it’s important that the new movie somehow focus on humanity’s exploration of space. It should also have a lesson to it, as Star Trek is known for. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be fun and thrilling like the first movie, but I would like the new movie to also serve as some kind of allegorical statement about some contemporary issues. That’s one of the reasons Star Trek was created for, after all.
Also, for the sequel, the writers need to be really careful with the plot holes. A few extra bits of dialogue to explain some things would have done wonders for the first movie. The writers shouldn’t have to explain plot elements to people who have already seen the movie (although we much appreciate that they took the time to do so!).
Now, I’m not saying we should be spoon-fed every bit of information … I like movies that make us engage our brain … but if it’s something that is detrimental to the story or the characters, I think it should be explained. Why and how did Starfleet connect the “lightning storm in space” with the seismic activity on Vulcan, as evidenced by Chekov’s announcement? Why does Nero think destroying Vulcan would prevent genocide? How does one star going supernova threaten an entire galaxy? Yes, I know the last two questions were answered in the comic, but A.) that not canon, and B.) most audience members don’t know about the comic. But these are plot points which involve the advancement of the film’s plot and the motives of the characters and they should have been better explained on-screen. For the sequel, the writers need to make sure they explain everything that *needs* to be explained.
And I here I am, a total amateur, giving “advice” to professional writers. Sorry, I just wanted to voice my opinion. Don’t get me wrong, I love the movie, I just think a few more lines of dialogue to explain some things would have avoided some of the story issues people seem to have with the movie. Again… totally just my opinion. :)
By the way, still hoping for an extended cut of the first film. Bring back Sam Kirk and Rura Penthe! Oh, and Baby Spock! (I still think the latter scene could be added as a flashback for when Sarek arrives to talk with Spock in the transporter room.)
Ok, I’m done with my rant. Moving on… :)
Random thoughts on the next film…
Resolve the thing between Spock and Uhura early on.
Concentrate heavily on the further character development of Kirk and Spock, and of their friendship.
Kirk cannot remain an adolescent jerk; something besides command of the Enterprise is needed to pull him out of that…
One direction: Kirk is looking for a mentor, the father figure he never had — let Pike fill that role, then kill Pike off and have Kirk confront the choice of destroying or sparing the life of Pike’s killer. (Kirk spares him, but the killer is dispatched by something else later on.)
Make sure to use the Enterprise in battle. Place her in peril, and let her sustain some damage.
Retain a high level of physical combat, like the present film.
Use Keenser sparingly but allow him one significant scene.
#69
Well said, Charles!
60: “But Vulcan is a peaceful planet…”
First, make those ridiculous, bright shiny phasers go away.
Then have the Borg show up, assimilate everyone and put this suffering beast out of it’s misery.
Have the beginning be the end of a mission that we know then branch into something brand new.
#72
Hey, if you can’t get your hands on Krypton, Vulcan will have to do!!!!
69: “And I here I am, a total amateur, giving “advice” to professional writers. Sorry, I just wanted to voice my opinion. ”
You don’t have to be a chef to know if the soup tastes bad.
>;>}
#70: “One direction: Kirk is looking for a mentor, the father figure he never had — let Pike fill that role, then kill Pike off”
Only rename Pike “Obi-Qui-Gon-Wan. That’d be cool.
s>;>}
It would be fun if the sequel’s opening vignette dropped us into a familiar story, like we first cut to the Big E as they’re escaping the Tholian web, perhaps with a different outcome. But then move on to an original story.
But maybe I just want to see ILM Tholians on the mega screen.
Lets hope we don’t end up with an Edsel here! lol
This is good information. I have posted this poll on “The Empire” Forum.
I gave credit to Trekmovie.com as for the source of it.
I don’t want a straight redo of space seed. Start with a foundational story about Kahn starting out as an olympic athlete (GR failed to realize that the olympics would become our proxy wars). His later development as a “just” leader of India would be really cool though. Sordove the rise and fall we all should have seen to Star Wars preq. but never did.
Just don’t get bogged down in dates(1992-96). If the Federation later outlaws cryogenetics it would have to born of several bad “public” examples in Earth history. Not this silly ret-con crap fans try to sell me. Have it be 2050 or so and have it be the reason WW3 was fought.
#45. abcde50 wrote: “Just dont do an Insurrection 2…”
But why? They did such a good job fixing Nemesis with this one. ;-)
I’m with the crowd of make it original people. If we wanted to see a newer version of something TOS we would…well watch TOS remastered.
Cameos galore are for fan fiction. Mr. Orci, please keep Trek original and unpredictable.
Please have it be theme over action
#60 – I’m sorry, Bob. If there was, it didn’t make it to the screen from where I sat. Of the changes that I have real problems with, Vulcan is at the top of my list. I was almost willing to tolerate the whole alternate universe thing, but a Vulcanless alternate universe? Thanks but no thanks. :(
(Not in the movie proper, but the second highest on my list has become the huge resizing of the Enterprise. Making the ship vastly larger than its original counterpart makes no sense to me, so if the sequel could rather pointedly treat the ship as roughly the same size as the original and refit-1701, that’d be appreciated. It mostly looked that way in this film, anyway, so it shouldn’t be a big deal.)
All that said, count my vote for an original story. As a few other folks have said, if all this effort was put into reviving the Star Trek franchise just to do remakes of other stories already told, what was the point? Tell us a new tale, preferably one which does involve actually exploring and boldly going where no one has gone before. (And if you could see your way clear to structuring it in such a way that it could potentially take place in either continuum, I’d be rather obliged, though I concede that’s a long-shot.)
Thanks for reading!
Brand new story with tiny hints to TOS i agree!
It’s a new timeline, so things can change. Maybe Kirk’s next challenge in the captain’s chair is the borg… you never know! Well, that may be going a little too far out of canon, but I’d still want to see it. I think no matter what this sequel is about, people will go and see it.
I know a few people who want to see Khan in the new sequel. I’m not so sure about that. I myself would like to see Shatner in the sequel, but perhaps playing a new character / supporting role instead of the old Captian Kirk, who’s dead by the way. He should be in there in some shape or form, or maybe it’s just me…
Long story in short, I think the sequel should have an original, new and exciting story with lots of character moments. I liked the internal tension / conflict within the crew of the Enterprise in the new Star Trek movie, and I would like to see it continue. Maybe Uhura gets with Kirk in the sequel and this love triangle between Spock, Uhura, and Kirk, distracts them from the new mission at hand. Maybe Pike gets with Kirk’s mom, and Kirk no longer sees him as a source of guidance / inspiration, and a subplot of the new movie could be how Kirk copes with this new change in his life, and in the end, it only strengthens his relationship with Pike.
But new story ideas aside, if they want to call it “Star Trek”, there has to be in some way, shape, or form, some reference/s to TOS era. I personally like the idea of taking an individual story from one of the T.V. episodes and re-imagining it and modernizing it to a new level.
One last thing, I love time travel, and I love seeing familiar faces. Maybe it’s just me again, but if there was another familiar face besides old Spock in the sequel, like Shatner or even a member of TNG era crew (I don’t know how that would fit the story / make sense but I would still like to see it). That’s just my personal preference though. Majority rules!
@20
“We now have Scotty the engineering genius, Spock the genius, and Chekov the genius too”
Hey man! Don’t forget Kirk, the genius level repeat offender.
Like most people I’m all for a completely new story. Have it be smart and exciting. Keep the style of the new film, but don’t let it be more of the same.
A good space exploration story would be the solution, the new film shattered people’s perceptions of what Star Trek was. A new film could move into more familiar terrain without risk of being shunned now.
And despite telling a new story there could definitely be room for elements of the known Star Trek canon, it is set in the same space after all.
Or how about finally telling the story of The Planet of the Titans?
Also, since Vulcan was a major part of TOS, maybe part of the plot of the new movie (kinda like The Search For Spock) is getting Vulcan back somehow – maybe it comes back not intentionally, but instead as a pleasant surprise from some of the risky choices Kirk and crew face. I know people who would like to see this happen, somehow.
Consider answering some of the mysteries that have been hanging out there. What about Carol Marcus? She was a brand new item in TWOK, probably added to make the story more interesting, then dropped. Why not provide the back story? What are the Vulcans doing now? Can the Enterprise be involved in resettling them, and overcoming unexpected difficulties? (this has the advantage of allowing another Nimoy guest shot)
Definitely Orci and Kurtzman should go with a new theme. What made TOS great were several points: a willingness to tackle topical issues, an inherent optimism about humanity while recognizing our weaknesses, great AND BELIEVABLE characters, great writing (calling DC Fontana). It was never about great special effects; it was about the essentials of good story telling.
And if I may offer a couple of humble opinions: Some have criticized the new Kirk for being a self-obsessed punk. The movie did not provide for his emotional maturing during his years at the Academy. He spent 3 years in a challenging, demanding and disciplined environment, and he obviously thrived there. Undoubtedly he found the home he did not have in Iowa. The writers may want to flesh this out a little bit, to add depth to his character and to ensure the audience that Kirk is not a snot-nosed punk. Second, please do settle the size of the Big E, and get it more like the original. The new E is a half-mile long? And they gave it to a kid? Come on! The points made about it being smaller and more family-like ring true.
I want to see a dogfight between the Enterprise and its’ Mirror Universe counterpart!
Don’t re-tread Khan, make up yet another revenge-driven maniac, or threaten the universe with another Macguffin/V’ger/Whaleprobe. Give the new actors themselves a chance to star – to chew the scenery playing their evil counterparts.
Quinto.
Goatee.
Profit!
Another lightning storm in space! This time, Doctor Sevrin comes through the wormhole on a quest to find Sybok. Then…
But seriously, I loved the new film, I’ve seen it many times so far and am a huge fan.
1. No more product placement (for me Trek has always been suggestive of a cultural, economic and overall social advancement that doesn’t mesh well with icons of consumerism and branding).
2. I know it is a movie for the masses and maybe they could care less about some random planet but as a person who grew up watching and reading Trek the treatment that the destruction of Vulcan received in the movie was almost an insult. Quite frankly, I don’t know how one could handle an event of that magnitude in a film without it coming of as trivialization. That was something that always ticked me off about the Lucas pictures. Leah witnesses the utter destruction of her entire planet and within minutes she’s through worrying about and on to pondering Harrison Ford’s hotness. In my opinion the destruction of his world would be at least as formative of his character as the whole “child of two worlds” bit (it was for Nero apparently). I suppose I’m just saying that I hope this is dealt with in some way although I admit that I don’t have anything concrete in mind.
I have many more thoughts on the matter but I’m sure others will voice them (if they haven’t already). And once again, I love the new film, it went beyond my expectations and I don’t think that’s ever happened before with me. I’m usually afraid to get too excited about a movie because it usually ends in disappointment.
Trek lives.
I guess Boborci’s not around, after all.
To quote Charlie Brown… RATS! :-P
Why do you even bother coming around here if that is all you have to say? Most of the folks here a looking forward to the future of the franchise and there are just some people out there who can’t be pleasant for one second, or at least keep it to themselves.
All you need to do is stay home and watch the crew go where Nomad has gone before, i.e. TMP, on VHS with a 20″ Tube TV and stay in your own little world.
We get it, your childhood is ruined, now please move-on!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
37. chronic_pon_farr – June 16, 2009
The new movie was crazy. The enterprise as big as a sovereign class, Checkov an ensign (when he was supposed to be still a small kid by the time), Kirk becoming captain fresh out of the academy, spock just happened to end up on delta vega, where scotty was… the crew just happened to end up together so early? As if it was fate. Maybe it was. And Nero doing nothing for 25 years? Is he crazy? he could have taken over the entire federation if he wanted to, or even destroy it.
JarJar Abrams wanted to make this his own. He could have made a better movie. Why change the look of the enterprise. It could have been great. I mean when you at the kelvin bridge, its akin to the old trek design only upgraded. That bridge could have been the enterprise bridge, only a bit brighter, with one big window/screen. Fewer Pipes and brewery, of course.
73. Charles H. Root, III – June 16, 2009
First, make those ridiculous, bright shiny phasers go away.
Then have the Borg show up, assimilate everyone and put this suffering beast out of it’s misery.
1) No time travel.
2) No villain hellbent on revenge (this includes Khan).
3) No Borg.
I’m still hoping for something along the lines of “Errand of Mercy” and “A Private Little War.” There would be Trek philosophical discussions about the Prime Directive, fighting Klingons on land and in space, and — if you throw in a hot villager — someone for Kirk to get with.
I want ot see Mandala Flynn.
I loved how the new team handled the Star Trek legacy and took it to a new frontier. The action, the story, the characters we all love and of course the ship.
As for a sequel i can only say to the writers: surprise us! :D
Be bold, dare to expand the universe, but stay true to cannon Trek.
About what should the next movie go? Well, give us Klingons! Kang, Kor Koloth for starters would be nice.
How about a cameo for Shatner? Not wanted nor needed, i would say…but if you want to bring him back, maybe as Kirk’s grandfather in one scene ;P
Timetravel? It’s been done in the first movie. However: a scene with an investigation from the Temporal Investigation Committee can be a nice arc through all new Trek movies…
Other dimensions? Well, Trek is now in another reality, so we knów about that too.
Threathen Earth? It’s been done too much…
Divine beings then? Deity’s are always interesting to play around with.
Khan? Interesting enough for a remake in the new reality universe.
How about the Andorians, which after the destruction of Vulcan want to expand their territory in space?
Or another unknown advanced race that explores space, reaches Earth (ST:1 & ST:4), but now with double motives? Repopulationg their homeworld by kidnapping entire cities from Earth?
Remaking all previous Trek movies is not interesting enough. Pointing at previous movies or episodes from one of the many series is always fun.
But as a 40+ fan, i dare the writers to surprise us all. This new reality is (like Scotty says) ‘exciting!’
Besides all that, one other thing: TNG deserves a good send-off movie.
Promote Picard to admiral, show us Riker’s ship the USS Titan, and do it in style like the end of ST:6, and send them off with dignity. Or do one final cross-over TNG/DS9/VOY castmembers as a last farewell to that era.
They deserve it, the fans want it and with these talented writers on board Paramount must give the green light for one more movie on that era.
get someone else to write it.
Nicholas Meyer will do.
I wanna see some Q. SERIOUSLY.
You know how awesome that would be? Imagine the crazy things that could happen in either a sequel to ST09 or a final TNG movie. Q in a last farewell to TNG could be absolutely EPIC.
#100 :: “…How about the Andorians, which after the destruction of Vulcan want to expand their territory in space?…”
THAT IS A REALLY GOOD IDEA. O:
No, I’m serious.
Tensions between the Federation and one of their oldest allies could make for a fascinating plot. Provided there’s, ah, enough firefight and awesomeness to keep everyone’s attention. xD I don’t want people, my senior year, to go see ST11 (heh, I guess?) and be disappointed ’cause it wasn’t as action-packed and fast-paced as ST09. And frankly, I’d be disappointed, too.
I agree with Bob. The embracing stance Paramount, JJ and Company, and input from the fans helped make this film a great success.
Here is my take on certain things:
1. The fans don’t wish to be left out, even when two opposite viewpoints are expressed, there are usually epiphanies which follow suit, those are very necessary to maintain innovation and a fresh-perspective.
2. To keep fans and non-fans interested in the whole idea, a multi-prong approach of viral marketing, early and interesting saturation, attention to detail of niche and mainstream markets, a very high production value, and very critical and interesting story-line, WHICH is relevant or will become relevant to NEW fans is just few of the required things necessary to leverage the reboot’s success.
3. An always keeping-mindful of a massive cultural icon as Star Trek Canon, but this is not always so, as evidenced by the alternate timeline. This formula worked but used too many times, unnessarily, or fueled by a weak-plot, will sink a film, no matter how many bells and whistles you add to it.
4. Always keep your ear to the ground when dealing with Star Trek, never ever forget the fans, they know the series as well as anyone on Terra Firma, who are some of the most forgiving and skeptical fans out there in any genre. When we disagree, we do so with tenacity and fervor!
5. We don’t mind if you change things, if you bounce it around first, shove it down our throats with disregard and it’s over, and please remember, we like to voice our opinions, even if it is down to the tiny detailing or filigree of the hull lettering over an airlock. Yes we are as watchful as a Romulan which is loitering cloaked near a Federation outpost. I guess you could say vigilant.
It’s a fine tradition to uphold, this wonderful Star Trek, I think all involved have done an excellent job, even though there were a few bumps on the path, but we are at Warp 11 and we will go faster yet!
I think Star Trek is on the right path. The alternate timeline may not be what everyone expected, but it works, and it works damn nicely. Don’t lose your heads fellas or go half-cocked with sloppy storylines and if something does pop-up as an inconsistency, it would serve each one of us to remember we are not perfect but if we can have honesty, it is much much easier to overlook mistakes…that goes for everyone I would think.
Well, I have said my two-cents. It’s honest opinion with a personal tie-in.
Thanks Bob, when I am amazed at how in-touch you guys are with the fanbase I am amazed again when something like this post happens to increase community involvement…fascinating.
You all rock…in my book!!!
Trekwebmaster
@19: I know it’s not a popular opinion for some reason (maybe people are just too conscious of toeing the party line, denying any flaws in the new movie out of hope for its success?), but I agree about the soundtrack. Despite some great cues during the course of the film, Mr. Giacchino also inexplicably wrote the single worst “main theme” motif I can remember hearing in at least the last decade, and easily the worst by far in any Star Trek movie or TV series — and it was still somehow greenlighted. It cheapens the entire movie, and I hope that if we *must* have Giacchino again (due to buddy-buddy ties to JJ or whatever), someone will have the common decency to kick his ass into gear and prohibit him from submitting any failed throw-away material as part of the score this time.
@56: Not when you can only catch glimpses of the actual movie through them. :P
I want to see something new. Let them explore the galaxy and meet a completely new race or races. And as much as I like our lovely planet, hopefully the sequel won’t include Earth at all. I like to see them out there, exploring new worlds and civilizations. Earth was already shown in enough Star Trek movies.
And I must add, NOT ANOTHER TIME TRAVEL STORY!
#105 :: That sounds good and all, but it has to have a certain… epic-ness to it. Otherwise, it feels less like a film and more like a two-hour-long episode, which is not exactly what they’re aiming for. That’s one thing I can commend ST09 on… It really felt like a film.
A khan story would be a sure fire hit. I think that is what paramount is really after,.
Insurrection was an attempt to be original and so was the final frontier, and look what happened.
My Take On Previous Star Trek Films:
ST: TMP – Very nicely done, but I sure wish we could have seen the director’s cut for the release…I felt short-changed when I saw the DC.
ST: TWOK – This movie was the BOMB! I watched this on VHS and DVD countless times.
ST: TSFS – I liked this film but it felt too much like a set-up for a SEQUEL!
ST: TVH – I really liked the “Green Message” but a giant probe who talks to whales in a Klingon rattle-trap was reaching a bit, don’t you think?
ST: I don’t recall the title…oh yes, Kirk and Company go looking for a religious deity held captive by a mad Vulcan…I didn’t care for this film.
ST: TUC – I really liked this film, too bad it was the last voyage of the original crew, but also has a neat tie-in with Captain Sulu, an unexplored sector of the Star Trek franchise in both timelines…I really liked this film.
ST: GEN – A blending of time, and as the title suggests, generations. Has some good plot points….ok I guess, but not as good as TWOK.
ST: INS – I liked it but it felt like filler TNG material at best.
ST: FC – A good birth of the federation kind of things with a popular Borg enemy….I liked the last finale of Voyager better, it had a more powerful story to me…now that’s an alternate reality story done well…too bad it couldn’t be made into a movie.
ST: NEM – I liked this film alot but it had some scenes like the Argo that felt contrived and scanning for android parts seemed dull to me. I loved the deeper feeling of knowing more about the characters. I really don’t see why this film failed, but I guess too much change did it in.
****ALTERNATE TIMELINE BEGINS****
I loved this film….ST: XI or ST: The Beginning really lures me in. It’s amazing at the accomplishments this film has made and will continue to make. Ship sizing inconsistencies and exploding planets notwithstanding, I really like the path this film is traveling. The universe is truly wide-open for new beginnings.
ST: XII This will be the true test and now that the shakedown is over, let’s see what she’s got.
“Sonny Boy, remember to treat her like a lady and she’ll always get you home.” ~ ADM McCoy
KUDOS to Bob, Alex, JJ, and Crew!
I don’t know if I’d like a Khan story. I mean, Khan’s really awesome, but… Ricardo Montalban owns that part more than I think Shatner owns Kirk. xD;
I don’t want to see a recreation of a villian I already know about. I want someone new, someone I haven’t seen a million times before…. Or one time, for that matter.
Well, I think if Mssrs Orci and Kurtzman and JJ are reading any of this, the concensus seems to be a new story with some neat continuity references in it. Let’s keep boldly going where no-one has gone before!
I also agree that it needs to be a little more thought-provoking – give me all the special effects, lens flares and action sequences but also add a little more depth. And let’s not forget that Trek is about exploration – of space and the human condition, not mad men trying to destroy the Earth.
And I’d like to add my message to the writers – I loved your first film, keep up the good work (and battle hard to persuade Paramount to keep up the budget and JJ as director!)
One question – as the cast are signed on for another two films, could we have a continuing epic storyline over these two films? Film em back to back perhaps?!
I want something new.
No more “Saving Earth, The Federation, The Galaxy, The Universe” storylines. Try for something new, something never done before in Star Trek. Try to have story which is deeper and more profound, don’t go for an easy action movie, try to challenge the audience, perhaps with a morality tale.
No more members of the old cast, unless you do an opening sequence which deals with old Kirk, Spock, etc. No more cameos, please! If the role is meaty enough, yeah, by all means go ahead, but I don’t want to see a trend where each new movie has a member of the old cast.
If the desire and focus is to retell an old story, go ahead and re-tell Space Seed, but NEVER touch the storylines of the original movies.
If there is a villain, develop him, take a look at the great villains in the previous movies, they were all more than just cardboard cutouts, Nero was too shallowly portrayed.
No more “Kirk being chased by deadly alien creature”. Star Trek is not and should not be “Pirates of the Caribbean” in Space.
More fun, adventure and sexiness, keep the doom and gloom away, there’s enough of that in most the movies today, I want a Star Trek which is fun, adventure filled, with a deep, emotional storyline, but I don’t want a depressed Star Trek.
Don’t simply rehash, re-interpret, re-design, re-tell, re-boot the old Star Trek elements, how about something NEW?
I would love a movie with the storytelling and thematic depth of The Motion Picture but with the fun, action and visual style of the new Star Trek.
More things for McCoy, Sulu, Chekov, Uhura and Scotty to do.
I think the message is loud and clear on this thread: ‘Please, we want an original story.’ And I wholeheartedly agree. Predictability is not drama. Roberto and Alex obviously understand that, or they wouldn’t be the successful writers they are!
I for one would like to see original material. If people want to see recycled stories, they can search for Star Trek Phase II.
102: I wanna see some Q. SERIOUSLY. You know how awesome that would be? Imagine the crazy things that could happen in either a sequel to ST09 or a final TNG movie. Q in a last farewell to TNG could be absolutely EPIC.
Hear, hear. Q for Star Trek 2.
The thing about Star Trek movies is each one seems to need that one signular villain (1 and 4 being the apparent exceptions). Personally, I don’t understand why, since most of my favourite episodes don’t feature villains (political enemies, perhaps).
But if you’re gonna have a villian, have Q
And not Khan.
My preference is for a new story set deep in space, where Starfleet and the Federation are only contactable via subspace radio, where the crew are relying on their wits and each other as they travel to a strange new world meeting a new civilisation and boldly going where no man has gone before.
And, while I’d like the key team of Kirk, Spock and McCoy to stay intact, I have no problem with members of the ancillary cast – Scotty, Chekov, Uhura, Sulu – getting killed off in the course of the adventure, proving how dangerous it is in deep space.
When I read books like Master & Commander (and look at the film) I think of Star Trek. Indeed, ironically, Master & Commander is one of the best Star Trek films I’ve ever seen!
First of all, do an original story with loose ties to Trek “history.” Remain most accessible to those who saw the most recent film. The next movie should shift away from the one-dimensional villain. If a unitary villain, make it someone truly sympathetic to the audience–who dwells more in the gray area of human morality. Recent villains have been so obviously insane and evil (Nero is no exception). Please no Khan!!!
As for story, “Dr. X” is right that the Vulcan Diaspora should feature prominently. The most significant change to Star Trek history should have broad ramifications.
Pick up with Leonard Nimoy’s Spock and the crew of the Enterprise leading much of what is left of Vulcan civilization to a new colony on the edge of the Romulan neutral zone (called Titus). It is there that the Vulcan people must come to terms with the destruction of their planet and begin to rebuild in a strange land. Divisions and tensions among the remaining Vulcans must exist as to how their new society should take shape–perhaps with some renouncing their Vulcan heritage to follow the Romulan way. Others must blame the Romulans for the destruction of their planet.
Other conflict could include Spock-Prime’s continuing quest to reunify the Vulcan and the Romulan people. Better yet, it might be interesting to see Quinto’s Spock take on elder Spock’s quest for unification all on his own. There could be an emerging conflict between the Federation and a Romulan/Klingon alliance similar to the one in TOS. Or some new threat with the Vulcan colony in the middle. I’m not sure Nimoy would be interested in reprising Spock, but even if he’s not in the film, I think the Diaspora is a fertile place to start. It should at least be touched upon.
Star Trek has always EXPLORED current affairs and social issues. How about an earlier-than-Prime-timeline encounter with the Ferengi–their capitalist bent contrast with Earth’s post-cash society would be a good way to tackle the economic crisis Trek-style. I’d love to hear Kirk and Spock hashing our “ancient Earth history” and debating the merits “of Earth’s ancient system of greed that almost led to mankind’s destruction.” Maybe they introduce universal healthcare to the Ferengi. Maybe Michael Moore could play Mudd!
How about a film similar to Star Trek 2 , that leaves you on a cliff hanger
and they leave it open to do the trilogy…
I am not sure but the idea of revisiting Talos IV keeps coming into my head. Kinda like an “echo” from “The Cage,” but with a meaner and different approach. Starfleet has always forbidden us to go there, it is only logical to be curious about it. But not like in TOS, something more ominous, evil, and very different.
Pike is Admiral now, would he not be in command of a new ship? It would seem like a waste of resources to put him behind a desk. Pike is now more interesting to me in the new timeline, since he never has gone to Talos IV….yet.
Gary Mitchell also has me wondering of what he is up to in the new timeline.
What about Captain Garrovick? The Kzinti, a never-before seen race on screen, virtually never explored in a movie. I think Romulans need to take a shore-leave for a bit. I am not so sure about a re-do of TWOK, Mantalbahn owns that, it would not do the role justice to cast another actor this soon after his death. Kahn should not be touched, I don’t think…or at least it’s how I feel about that subject.
I want to see something new but with echoes of the prime timeline or perhaps a rediscovering of sorts with a twist.
By all means, please, no timeline major plotlines, let’s go forward, into the unknown, the undiscovered, with the human equation divided by conflicts which are as ingenious and innovative that will never for a second seem cliche or added for the sake of making something else work. Try for the 98 percent efficiency rating…or higher.
Another two-cents…lol.
Trekwebmaster
If you really think about it, there was not a whole lot of space battles in the new movie otherthan the opening, scene in the middle (between the Narada and the fleet of the federation, which we dont see sadly), and the final confrontation.
I agree with staying away from time travel and Khan.
Enter the Klingons..
The Klingons are the most popular and recognizable villain in Star Trek. Ever though they were overused in the movies, im pretty sure JJ and Company could recreate them in a very unique way.
Here we go.. My idea!
We start the movie with the klingon emperor being overthrown by the main antagonist (Kor???) after a breath taking battle above Qro’nos. Kor has gained allegiances in the Klingon Empire after discovering “Tri-lithium crystals” on a nearby Kilingon Moon, which could boost warp drive capibilites beyond warp 10. Power over this energy source has torn the Klingon empire apart. Admiral Pike has been sent to mediate negosiations between the factions. Kor’s son Keran (I Dont know, just a name) grows up being at odds against his father and steals a large quantity of crystals and escapes Klingon Space, while being pursued he comes across the Enterprise. Kirk and Co. save Keran and fights of his pursuers. Kirk and Spok learn of this new energy source. Meanwhile a number of federation ships are sent to assist in humanitarian efforts on Gro’nos. One of the ships crew is taken hostage by Kor. We introduce Carol Marcus. The enterprise arrives and Kor demands exchange of Keran and the crystals for the crew of the federation ship and Carol. During the crisis Kirk attempts a rescue mission but fails and is taken captive by Kor. Kor then adapts the crystals into his warp engines and warps away. It is here that Kirk and Carol meet and develop a relationship while being captives. As the enterprise detects the warp signature, Scotty and Spock adapt the crystals into the enterprises engines. Admiral Pike joins the crew and takes command, they and Spock fallows his friend Kirk into the unknown…
Anyone care to finish this story… eh??
I can’t find that comment, but I echo that an encounter with a mirror universe counterpart could be an interesting premise. I particulary liked the novel ‘Dark Mirror’ where the Enterprise D got pulled into the mirror universe, where their counterparts tried to hijack the ship, out for conquest in the ‘prime’ universe..
It could be an interesting premise.
I also echo the sentiment that we need a more memorable score. I can hear multiple tracks from several other Trek films in my mind on command, but the only track from the new film I remember is ‘Hella Bar Talk’. The theme for the Enterprise itself was.. weak.
As much as I liked the composer’s score for the Incredibles, the style used for this film was rather, misplaced in a lack of better words.
They should tell an original story featuring established characters. I’m majorly in favour of an appearance by Carol Marcus to show her romance with Kirk blossoming. With only one movie every few years it’s a bit pointless to portray him as a womaniser at this stage. I think he probably became one as a result of this failed relationship particularly if she is indeed the lab technician that he almost married.
As a planetary scientist she might have good reason to be helping the Vulcan people re-settle too. An appearance by T’Pau is also called for.
Oh and Rand – we’ve got to have Rand.
I don’t mind any product placement as long as the ones in charge at NOKIA and BUDWEISER don’t mind being nationalized by United Earth in the 23rd century…
Back to topic:
1. NO saving the universe
2. NO saving Earth. Not that there are no other planets worth fighting for…
3. NO revenge (or anything else) seeking super villains with Deathstar defying mega starships or superweapons… Leave that to comic adaptations or past James Bond movies…
4. If you wanna make a movie for movie fans, do not waste any energy in Comic prequels whose content is essential to the understanding of the antagonist’s motivation…
5. NO summing up of “What happend so far” (aka “briefing the ones who did not read the comic”) in the middle of the movie. Sophocles would do that in Athens 2400 years ago due to the limitations of his medium (just one example). If you wanna make Star Trek for the stage then go on. But not for the big screen if I dare to ask.
6. Enhance a few parts in the production design. Keyword “pipe”! Keep them, but not that many…
(I like the french meaning for numbers sake – but then we would have the first official X-Rated Trek movie, maybe NC-17 by licking someones knee)
7. Telling a already told story from another angle would not piss me off that much but I would prefer something else. If you dare to enter Indiana Jones territory, then let the crew explore the remains of a lost civilization. Not that original, but I’m sure you can make something out of it if you add a Gorn-Klingon alliance which is also interested in some relics…
From a true fan’s point of view, of course I want to see something original. Rumors of another Star Trek 2 featuring Khan would and could never live up to the original classic Wrath of Khan. Here’s some of my ideas:
1. Don’t use Romulans as the main bad guys. The last two films featured them as the main bad guys (okay, okay, technically Nemesis featured Remans but you get the jist) … the point is none of them were very good.
2. Re-introduce Klingons. Be interesting to see if the powers that be follow ST:ENT and TOS canon in RE: to their appearance.
3. No more individual or races hellbent for revenge. It’s been overplayed.
4. No more time travel. It needs a break as well.
5. No NEXUS to re-introduce William Shatner as Cpt Kirk. Find another way if you are to bring him back.
6. Be cool to re-introduce TV style format: teaser, opening credits (and this time actually have opening credits instead of just simply putting the title), act 1, 2, 3, etc.
7. Introduce Gary Mitchell and Carol Marcus somehow into the storyline. They, afterall, played a very important part in Kirk Prime’s life so it be cool to have them play a part in Kirk Alternate’s life as well. Also introduce (since you deleted him out of the first one) Kirk’s older brother.
8. No alien probes hellbent on destruction. No humpback whales facing extinction.
9. No Vulcans (or anybody else for that matter) seeking out God.
10. Continue Spock Prime and Vulcan Re-Colonization storyline (even if just brief mention.)
11. Introduce Nurse Chapel!! Pay homage to Majel Barret-Roddenberry’s character in memory of her and her work.
12. No Harry Mudd, No Eddie Murphy!
Okay, I think I’m rambling on now. Sheesh, I can go on forever. Orci and Kurtzman make hit movies. I don’t always agree with everything that they re-worked about Star Trek and Transformers, but I also can’t deny that they make hit movies. So, Orci and Kurtzman, here is your challenge: Provide us with a story that No Man Has Never Heard…. Before!!! If anybody can do it, you can! Or if not, I can, but hey … in the industry I’m a nobody so they won’t even give me the time of day.
Original story – no rehashes of old scripts. The last 2 seasons of VOY were effectively TNG re-writes. No more!
Good villain with a tangible threat – ‘destroying Earth/Vulcan/entire Federation’ is a bit too big to fully grasp. Threats that are more personal seem more daunting. And NOT Harry Mudd. Or Cyrano Jones. If you’re gonna have one, kill ‘em in the first act.
NO KHAN. NO KHAN. It’s been done, it’s been done well – let’s leave it there.
It would be nice to see some Klingons – Kang, Kor and/or Koloth would be good. It would be good to see some Romulans – perhaps in this timeline the Romulan Empire is more diplomatically involved with the Federation. Maybe they belong more as background colour than primary villains, though – same applies for Cardassians and Bajorans – it would be good to see them in passing, but wouldn’t want to delve too deeply.
A Mirror Universe tie-in could work… needs careful consideration.
I would like to see an exploration of the Vulcans as a refugee race. I always thought that was a powerful thing with the El-Aurians in TNG, but it was never fully explored. We only saw two of them – a bartender and a psychopath!
No Ferengi – they got handled very nicely in DS9. Don’t think any further exploration is needed there.
Maybe the Breen… they were in the Dominion War, but they’ve never really been explored as villains. A Breen antagonist could be interesting…
#101 “get someone else to write it. Nicholas Meyer will do.”
Nicholas Meyer is a director, not a writer.
#127
Correction: he is a writer, too. But the main writing work in Trek 2 was not from him. Maybe Meyer had something to do with the screenplay.
I prefer a original story myself. I really don’t want to see the “cheap” brewery crap again. It didn’t mesh well with the rest of the ship and to me it even felt the guy playing scotty didn’t even know where the heck to go. Plus concrete on a starship?.. come on…
No earth under attack, this is way over done in most sci-fi.
Show Andorain women cause their hot! :)
No super weapons of any kind.
No stargate transporters. I know this has been talked about but still.
No the big E is the only ship in the entire galaxy. I know the E and the crew are supposed to be the best but I like to see them need help time to time either by being in a fleet etc.
No turbo lifts going in the wrong direction lol.
Show other parts of the ship, does this star trek use replicators way ahead of their time, have a mess hall? (please don’t make it look like a dennys or anything either..)
Yeah, would love to see something new.
Really, really look at the great genre sequels and why they worked: Wrath of Khan, Empire Strikes Back, Aliens, T2, X-Men 2, The Dark Knight. All of those movies were more about expanding older characters and introducing a few memorable new ones rather than trying to make an overly complicated plot for the sake of it. I know they made a ton of money, but think of why no one REALLY likes Pirates of the Caribbean 2 or Matrix 2 – They forgot character and just became about overly complicated bs “plot” contrivances.
Make this movie about what the credits of Star Trek say the show is supposed to be about, but only seldom ever was ” ..to seek out new life and new civilizations….” etc.
DON’T re-hash old movies or episodes. We do not need to see Khan again. Unless your idea to bring him back is BEYOND brilliant, don’t bother. Same goes for almost all the other classic series characters (with the exception of Carol Marcus, as we never saw that relationship in it’s early happier years)
At the same time, find new ways to introduce elements that are part of Star Trek mythos (The Klingons, The Romulans – Nero doesn’t really count-maybe even TNG races like the Cardassians ) and find a way to fit them into a brand new story. Make it new AND familiar at the same time.
NO MORE saving Earth. Not for a long time. In fact, I don’t even wanna SEE Earth.
Find ways to include Easter Eggs and nods to the previous continuity without it being confusing for new fans, but would bring a smile onto the face of old school fans like me (example: Having someone like an earlier Dax symbiote host be a new crew member instead of a random nobody. It won’t mean anything to a new fan, but us old school fans will love it, as long as it doesn’t affect story)
I would like to see characters developed better than the shows and previous movies were able to.
So i want to see Klingons who really are capable of taking body parts off. Or Borg that really are scary.
In the new movie there was no explanation as to why the vulcans who are known for their scientific advancements had no weaponary on the planet that could take out the drilling rig.
Even earth were helpless until spock arrived. I would have liked to have seen attempts to take out the drill being thwarted and Spocks only advantage was the fact that his ship was more advanced.
As it was it worked in the context of a trek film requiring us to fill in blanks with our imagination but this has always been one of those things that alienates non trek fans.
That scene though we knew earth could be destroyed certainly was not as powerful as the threat by aliens in Independence day.
I loved the film and have seen it seven times but i felt the stakes could have been raised and will need to in order to sustain the new audience over time.
Shatner and khan please.
New isn’t good necessarily. Look at trek v and nemesis for proof.
As long as it’s a decent script with high stakes and emotionally compelling that’s all you need.
“do whatever feels right!”
More exploration like TOS, but original stories, we’ve had enough “about to destroy The Earth” themes. Need more of an “awe of The Universe, exploration and love of the ship” by the Kirk character…
Original!
The slate has been wiped clean. Take full advantage of it.
Good Luck!
I want something new…but done with an TOS villian
i think u know who i mean….
KHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAANNNN!
and klingons
couple of star cameo/supporting roles
do the math
No Gaila=No Star Trek!
No Mugatu= No Peace!
I think one of the biggest lessons you can learn about this movie is that you can tell a Star Trek story in a different way, and that you can tell a different kind of Star Trek story. The TV shows had a wide variety of different types of stories, not all of them had villains. I’d be open to a villain if it were a Harry Mudd or otherwise unconventional villain, but it would be interesting to see a story that featured action without battles perhaps. Or a story that, as you said you wanted, explored the consequences of the timeline changes, its effects on the characters. Though perhaps it might be a little too silly in tone, I think Star Trek IV is a good model (as are Star Trek VI, DS9, and even ENT), for what to do next.
“It still has to echo everything Star Trek has been?”
Yeah, nice job guys…you failed the first time around.
The next movie needs to be a NEW story. The first movie was a very entertaining exercise to bring all the pieces of the altered Trek universe together, in a way that was true to the original, yet allowed for new adventures that are not dependent on any previous Trek. Well, at the end of ST09, the pieces are in place and ready to go. Let’s not waste it by falling back on a previous Trek story line. Buckle-up Bones; it’s time to have a new adventure.
There is no way I’m going to actually suggest a story, because the people in charge are much better at that than I am. But I will happily suggest some elements that I think would be interesting.
As part of the overall story, this movie should show Kirk’s journey. At the end of ST09, he is a talented but inexperienced leader who is suddenly given command of the best ship in Starfleet. How does he go from that tenuous starting point to becoming the Captain Kirk we know from the original series? If that can be portrayed in one movie as part of the actual story, it would be fascinating. It would be like a Horatio Hornblower story, where Horatio always goes on a journey of personal growth. One of the best aspects of Star Trek II TWOK was Kirk’s journey from feeling old and worn out to feeling young and alive again.
The cast obviously needs one more strong female character. Instead of inventing a new character, add “Number One” from the first original series pilot (the one with Pike as Captain). Since we never knew her real name, it does not need to be obvious to the casual viewer, but it should be obvious to a “true fan” that she is that same “Number One.” A strong female second-in-command was very progressive for a 1960’s TV show (too much so to survive into the second pilot apparently), so it would be fitting to acknowledge what Gene Roddenberry was trying to do by reviving that character. Obviously, she does not need to come on-board as second-in-command. She could even serve as a disruptive influence, to keep things a bit off-balance with the original characters.
And if there is a desire to put William Shatner into the second movie, he should play Tiberius Kirk, George Kirk’s father and Jim Kirk’s grandfather. The character should not be integral to the story, but it would perhaps be a fun way to either begin or end the movie. Since neo Kirk has issues with never knowing (or even meeting) his father, this element involving his grandfather could give him some closure regarding his father’s death.
New campaign:
BBG = Bring Back Gaila! … the Orion, not the Ferengi…
;-)
In a wierd twist of fate, Kirk’s exposure and departure from the Nexus made him a Q. The next film should feature an epic battle between Kirk Prime and the Squire of Gothos.
i think the next film include these 2 things
—originality (an original story) nothing redone
— a message (showing humanity at its best and worst) dont be afraid to make the audience THINK :)
Flanked by Tribbles.
Shatner and Nimoy together please. Shatner as Kirk, not as some other character that would confuse the audience and be a disappointment for people who have waited so long for some better final appearance than Generations. It would be cool to see not only older Kirk and Spock together, but more scenes with younger Kirk and Spock interacting with their older counterparts. Some kind of epic story that may even get an out for Kirk Prime.
Hell, you could even establish that Kirk Prime lives and that Generations is the natural progression of the NEW timeline. THAT would be a twist.
I think you guys set in motion some things and didn’t explore the ramifications. Orci is the canon expert and likely knows this. Billions died that did not die before. That has to have consequences that affects the future. And that could be the basis for Shatner Kirk returning to the past and seeking the help of Spock Prime. Plus, Spock Prime shouldn’t need much convincing to save Vulcan. Not only that, the characters in the new timeline are STILL Kirk and crew, and they would help do the right thing because that is their heroic nature.
So please put Shatner and Nimoy in this one together.
No Khan either.
Who is this interviewer? They are completely wrong if he think the Trek fans want to see a remake of some previous story. MAKE IT NEW & ORIGINAL. It will be a huge mistake to go over old ground. Come on guys – stay smart!
oh, and as much as I like to see the ST sequel tomorrow:
Take your time! Do it right! ST09 was an awesome start, but I’m sure that you can do better! Make ST12 to StarTrek what Dark Knight was for the Batman franchise!
I think the next movie should be bigger, and focus on THESE characters first and foremost – rather than trying to go back and look at an episode Shatner appeared in.
I think they should steer away from adding any Trek alumni in the sequel and do something amazingly spectacular and fresh with the new characters in this new universe they’ve created – however i think perhaps having some of the most memorable bad guys back would be very cool, the doomsday machine is one that automatically springs to mind but i’d love to see Kor and Koloth too. and maybe the Gorn.
So i think yes borrow from the original but do a Dark Knight and don’t just copy an epsiode of the Original.
Since Hollywood’s lack of originality seems to be a plague for the industry, I would vote for a truly new story. Let’s let those “writers” stretch those wings a bit and show us some true skill. Much of what we’ve seen on the screens these days can be topped by fans online here.
Just no monster plot holes like the coincidental meeting of Kirk and Spock prime who just happens to be walking distance from Scotty. Please. Trek is science fiction, not science fantasy. I liked the movie – not a purist. Just could have been a great movie instead of a good (and marketable) one.
There are still plenty of untold stories, or stories that are only hinted at, in the Star Trek universe, so there’s plenty of room for new stories or a fleshing out of details. For example, the Carol Marcus/Kirk’s son story comes to mind, and you’d think that a major relationship like that and the fallout of its end would be an influence on Kirk that would help shape him into the Kirk we saw on TOS, which would give the writers room to play and do some good dramatic storytelling. Another example – we know Kirk knew Matt Decker, in the past, called him a friend – what’s the story behind that? And so on. Just lots of stuff.
But I agree with others – no time travel, no save the Earth/save the universe stories. Especially no time travel. Please.
How about seeking some strange new worlds and new civilizations and boldly going where Trek hasn’t gone before?
Khan weds Carol Marcus. Kirk no likey. ‘Nuff said.
More Ewoks!
And Gungans. Definitely, definitely more Gungans.
An all-new story is the way to go.
But seriously, I’d prefer a new story. For Kirk’s arc, I think he needs to be faced with a tragedy that is at least in part due to his own action or inaction. Perhaps something Edith Keelerish. I do think it would be interesting to revisit one or two characters from TOS in small roles. As long as they serve a cool new story. Pike & NimoySpock can mentor. Plus lots of action & humour as in the first. And play up the beauty and wonder and terror of exploring the final frontier.
I’d love to see guys like Harry Mudd in next Trek movie, but only as a small cameo. The movie should have Klingons among the main bad guys, and they should be portrayed as a kind of “western bad guys”.
Just like the original Star Trek did, Star Trek TNG (in my opinion) was the only other tv series to maintain a certain “magic” that endeared it, and it’s characters with viewers. I loved the movie, I love the original series, and I also loved TNG (never could get into DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise.
Using this post to just toss in my own two cents, I would LOVE to see the next movie include not only the crew from the first movie (by all means, don’t omit them!), but perhaps some folks from TNG as well. I love seeing Patrick Stewart as Jean-Luc Picard. He’s such a good actor anyway, but I really believe it’s the best work he’s ever done.
Harry Mudd could get a cameo on an Orion pirate hub world. Maybe a rescue mission, vulcans and scientists incl. Carol kidnapped so Enterprise has to do a CSI investigation?
I think they should do a new story all together but maybe have some smaller stories in there from the series but have the main story be new and different and big. With Great fx and a great story that Gene Roddenberry would love. I think everyone here wants to see more of the big 3 and especialy Karl Urban as Mccoy. But stay away from time travel as that has been done so many times. Lets see the crew in action and lets see more of the big E as well. Buit also bring in some of the chareters in like Lt Boma and Dasalle and Lt Oneil and Janice Rand and Lt Palmers and have them in some small roles. Lets see another Big Epic Trek that will take our breath away and a story that will pull us all along right with it.
21. Baroner
“Re-do Catspaw…”
CATSPAW w00t!! LOL!
I vote all new story involving the ramifications from the loss of Vulcan and the shift in the balance of power. Introduce a new alien threat that had an armistice with Vulcan but now reveals themselves as a power to be recognized and demands respect from the other major alien races.
And as always I enjoy reading Orci and Kurtzman interviews. They have so much respect for the fans and Star Trek.
P.S. Love love love the image at the beginning of the article!! :D
Kudos Trekmovie!
No Cross overs no Tng or Anything like that. Maybe have an apperance by Scott Bakula as Admiral Archer as he gets on to Scotty about Porthos. But other then that no cross overs from other series as this needs to be a Tos Story with some mention of the NX 01 Enterprise since it was before Tos.
Harry Mudd?? well how bout Cyrano Jones?…I loved his character..has anyone mentioned him?…cameos would be great…got to get Klingons in there somewhere…how about Khan?
My idea involves the search for Khan..a race to find him before the Klingons do, and on the way they encounter a few of their old friends like Mudd, Jones, etc… Jack Black as Mudd or Jones…Tom Hanks as Decker or April?
Or maybe something original would be nice with no time travel plot…..please! …though how would Shat make it back with no time travel involved?
Khan would be TREK’s “Joker” …and if done as well as Heath Ledger played it ..well you get it..
I would like to see a new, original story for the next movie. No Khan. No Harry Mudd. No re-imagining/retelling/re-writing of an episode of TOS or one of the TOS films. Something New. No Borg. No Romulans. Okay, maybe some Klingons for good measure. Maybe–if it makes sense in the story. But I’d like to see our crew on the edges of known space, on the frontier, and have them encounter something mysterious–that mystery box JJ is so in love with (not literally of course but you get the idea).
P.S.
And though I’m in love with the idea of getting Patrick Stewart’s Picard in there somewhere, please NO TIME TRAVEL stories. And really, even though I love Picard, No cameos from the other shows. That means no Shatner. Sorry Bill. Let our new crew shine.
15. cd – June 16, 2009
“And that doesn’t mean we can just be shocking for no good reason and just throw everything away.”
I guess destroying Vulcan for no good reason doesn’t count…
Well said, this has been one of the things I as a long time Treker have question to other fans!!!!
Lets travel back to TOS, and watch how the young Kirk and Spock lean from Capt. Pike on a serries of missions. Put the crew on a quest to stop the “Romulan War”. The crew find clues that lead to “Talos IV” but Pike will not return to Talos IV. In the end, the crew fails to stop the outbreak of war.
Pretty obvious. The next movie will be mirroring the Nolan-Batman.
Since they can’t call the next one Star Trek 2 or Star Trek 12, they will leave “Star Trek” completely out of the title. My bet is “Where no one has gone before”.
And they will be reviving Khan. And he will be played by Javier Bardem. It worked for the Joker, and that particular movie made a billion, so Paramount/Abrams will surely try this.
All this “reboot”, “fresh start”, “clean slate” talk is rubbish. They are definately going to rehash a story that has already been told in TOS.
But most of you guys will swallow that anyways, so go for it.
And I swear to you, at one point there will be the rumor of Bollywood actor “Shahrukh Khan” playing the part of Khan.
Sorry for my english
It will be good to see friendship of Kirk, Spock and McCoy. And if there is alternative past, so old Kirk wouldn’t die on Veridian 3. And he can use temporal gates to come back and to help saving Vulcan (with Genesis, for example)
What do you think?
New story. New characters. NO retreads! We’ve had enough of that already.
I vote for something completely original. Get the Enterprise way, way out in outer space. We should never see Earth. The audience should be able to feel the loneliness of space, the quietness of space. We should experience the weeks and months it takes to get anywhere in our small galaxy, even with warp drive.
Put the crew in an incredibly vulnerable position, and let the audience experience the incredible dangers of being so far out there, relying only on your wits to keep you alive.
We also need to meet something alien and learn from it/him/her, and at the same time learn something about ourselves and the tiny beings we really are.
Not in JJ’s “cool” universe.
Have the crew go back in time and take out Achmenijad, Kim Jong Il and Osama Bin Laden. Then make Barack Obama Ruler of Earth.
142. Sebi
If they didn’t want to spend time on creating a canon explanation to bring back Shatner’s Kirk from the dead, I doubt they’re going to spend time resurrecting Gaila for the sequel. ;)
I really don’t care what they do for a sequel so long as they get rid of the bleeping factory in the bowels of the Enterprise!! (oh, wait, what that supposed to be Engineering? Where’s the warp core? Where’s the antimatter inducers? Where’s anything you can’t find in today’s pipe-laden factory?!
And get rid of Spock+Uhura, and Chekov the wonder boy.
And more Orion women!
Fortunately when it came to the Enterprise’s 5 year mission, we only seen 3 years of it. It would definitely be interesting to see what happened in those 2 missing years. 1 missing year if you include the animated series.
Oh, the love affair between Spock and Uhura will be so horrible.
Everyone shouted “Bullshit” when they gave Superman a son, though.
I may have missed this point if made by someone else in this sea of opinion and suggestion: Have a “new Vulcan” in the next movie and make it look like the one from ST3, or an original series Vulcan “look”….red sky and all. May be a nice nod to the fans and make it feel like home to us. Maybe it could be called Vulcania since Spock referred to himself a few times as a “Vulcanian” in the original series early shows. ;-) If you use this idea, I won’t ask for royalties, I promise. I’ll just be grinning like a little boy in the theater (even if I am in my 40’s).
Also, I voted for an original story with an original villian/threat…BUT, if a known villian, please make almost everything else be new regarding the story. As I said in another post, the chains have been taken off, let’s have some fun with Star Trek again instead of worrying about every minor detail messing up “history”. It’s a new timeline/relality. GO FOR IT!!!!
Absofrakkinglutely NO Borg. No mention of them, no allusions to them.
However, seeing a “K” type space station would be cool. :-)
Please do not go back and have a “do-over” of episodes/movies we have seen before. Let them stand on their own. A reference here or there to the original series is fun, but you have a whole new set of actors, as well as a large new audience who might be willing to embrace Star Trek for a lifetime. Let the movie be something fresh, but still heartwarming to the fans who have been there from the beginning.
I think they should go someplace alien. Very alien. There was a species in one episode of TNG called the Sheliak. I imagine a first contact with them would be a rather harrowing experience.
As to the question of Nero’s 25 year hiatus between destroying the Kelvin and destroying Vulcan: while it is true that he has a large and powerful ship with which to harass the galaxy, he didn’t have the planet destroying red matter until he captured the Jelly Fish, which came through the black hole time displacement only a few hours before Vulcan was destroyed. Apparently they also spent some time on Rura Penthe.
It would be nice to have a mystery connected with the next movie — a whodunnit of galactic proportions with a twist ending. :-)
New stories would be great but what do you do about the obvious established plot lines?
1. Vulcan was destroyed for God sakes. Along with Spock’s mother. Do they just ignore that and go on their merry way exploring the galaxy?
2. Spock Prime exists in the new universe and has first hand knowledge of the potential threats to the Federation. (Khan, V’ger, Borg, Kelvins, etc.)
Spock Prime also has expertise in regards to 24th century technology.
I should think that that alone would thrust Spock Prime into the spotlight in the next movie (for better or worse film making wise.) Sure, you could SAY that he is off helping the Vulcan diaspora cope with their loss (Wouldn’t that be a job better suited for Sybok though? j/k) and have him never return-just as he did with his reunification efforts-but still…
3. Kirk is a NEW ship captain and has a LOT to learn as he matures.
Make it REALLY original.
Make it without violence and NO villain.
124. cinemadeus: ‘I don’t mind any product placement as long as the ones in charge at NOKIA and BUDWEISER don’t mind being nationalized by United Earth in the 23rd century…’
Fabulous! So you think it’s a positive future where people aren’t allowed to start a company and run it themselves? Maybe in TNG that sort of nonsense is acceptable, but in the TOS era, Earth hasn’t yet been taken over by the Nazis who run the 24th Century Federation.
In Mudd’s Women, for example, the Enterprise was going to have to pay the hardworking miners for the crystals the ship needed to power itself. Commerce is alive and well in the TOS era and, in the new universe, long may it continue to be!
Oh and a couple other suggestions:
Janice Rand-DO get her on the ship and in Kirk’s head.
Spock/Uhura-Find a logical way to tone this down to the point of it being a friendship with loads of respect and a bit of flirting (all done by Uhura, only). Perhaps after visiting with Prime Spock, young Spock will realize how important it is for him to concentrate on his Starfleet job fully. It would be logical.
Put a few more original series aliens on the ship (in the corridors, etc.). NO post TOS aliens, please!!!
Nurse Chapel-Maybe, if done right. Nothing wrong with her and Uhura having a very subtle competition for Spock, even though neither will “get him.”
Star Trek needs to be believable, yes. BUT, as much as I loved the movie and overlooked engineering, you HAVE to do something with engineering. If I recall, there was talk of Scotty helping with some of the Enterprise designs in TOS. Perhaps now that he’s in charge, Scotty spends some time “between movies” upgrading engineering. Remember, he wanted to “get his hands on her ample nacelles.” Why not make the fans happy? I don’t ever recall any non-Trek fan who attended a Trek movie leaving the theater saying…damn, would have been a great movie but that engineering was SOOOO FAKE! However, there are TONS of Trek fans that really dislike this new take on engineering.
Keep the bridge as is, with a few small subtle changes. Maybe add a little more color (as a tribute to TOS) and be sure Spock gets his “blue scanner thingy” that he always looked into. Uhura’s earpiece was great, so this would be too.
In fact, give Sulu his little “pop up in battle” scanner thingy, too.
Lt. Kevin Riley might be fun, even if totally unecessary-lol Maybe he could be running the bowling alley on the Enterprise.
I could do this all day, so I’ll stop now! LOL My thanks and sympathy to all who read these suggestions.
Two, one hour “episodes” like TOS. Two different stories, one based on character development, the other perhaps more action – adventure. Each with their own separate plot and each one concluded after one hour.
Judging from these comments, the votes are in. The new screenplay should boast:
1. An original story.
2. Tidbits from and references to the original series.
3. More emphasis on the friendship between Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
There you have it, boys and girls. It ain’t rocket science — just good “Star Trek”!
It doesn’t matter in the long run if it attaches to an old episode or is entirely original. There is still a major chunk of Trek missing, and that is the morality.
The setting of the show was often simply a veil to convey topical opinion, or storeis on humanity. This is something that really really needs to show up again, and I felt was greatly lacking from the new film (don’t get me wrong, this die-hard loved it!)
But no… no Khan, please. Mudd, Koloth, Kor… sure, but no Khan. Gary Mitchell BIG yes. It’s really the only one of the original series I’d care to see “remade”.
Bob Orci and Court. If you use the Klingons then use the ones from the Tos. In the series Enterprise they did answer why the Klingons look more human like with the Augments. So use them in the Movie. But not a big role. Go into your wild Immangination and get into your Scifi self and let go and give us a Scifi Story with great action and suspense and drama and make it an even bigger epic then the last movie. But keep to Gene Roddenberrs vision. I know you can do it. We all believe in you.
They have a blank canvas. If they were to revisit a story from TOS – it should have a radical, unexpected twist – and not just a retread of an old series episode. The whole plot line should change. But overall my advice to them would be to continue with the fast pace and action to satisfy the masses, but make it intelligent for the original fans too. The world has enough mindless action movie franchises – I hope they don’t dumb down the franchise in moving forward. Think – what’s a worthy first mission of the newly formed crew of the Enterprise? Make the stakes personal and high – they don’t have to save the whole Universe every single time. Just write a great film script that blows everyone’s mind and deliver it by Christmas.
Something new. Please – otherwise what was the point of ‘resetting’ the timeline?
Please give the ’supporting’ cast/characters something important and interesting to do (we’re not ALL fans of “the big three”). Try to treat Uhura as the serious, skilled, professional officer she was in TOS, and not as a hot babe who got where she is by sleeping with her instructor; and please – please! – stop giving Scotty the stupid “comic relief” stuff. Kill off that ridiculous creature in the monkey suit, and let’s see some trained engineers and technicians in a 23rd century engine room next time. If you want to give Scotty an assistant, why not hand the role to the guy who was standing next to him in the Transporter Room :-)
#188-It would have to be under much different circumstances. Maybe when he gets assigned, Kirk doesn’t know him, but they begin to build and friendship or maybe a wee bit of competition between them (perhaps over Rand?).
Might be funny showing them eating a meal and chatting…..Kirk mentions his experience on Delta Vega and Mitchell gets this strange dazed look , like his mind is somewhere else. KIrk asks, “Gary, are you with me?’ Mitchell responds, “Yeah, I’m just a little weak, for some reason.” Then his eyes suddenly begin to glow!!!! LMAO, perfect way to end the next film-lol
I am teasing…but it would be fun to see Kirk mention Delta Vega and see Mitchell’s mind go elsewhere for a moment.
Mr. Orci and Mr Kurtzman…
#187 pretty much summed it up.
However i would add one more small thought. When youre thinking of an “enemy” for the new film, think more along the lines of “the undiscovered country.” Sure there was Chang…but he wasnt the true antagonist. He was just the face of a much larger enemy….prejudice. Think big…make the true enemy of this film and IDEA. Lust…greed…jealousy…terrorism. Whatever you choose…be sure the tie the idea back to our current conditions here in the real world 2009/10. Thanks guys…i know you’ll do well.
Wow i’ve been going to this site for a year now but its only my second time to post here! :) Anyhoo, after listening to the End Credits track by Mr. Giacchino, it got me thinking:
Mr. Orci, Kurtzman and Abrams, how bout for the teaser trailer, you guys redo the intro for TOS with Chris Pine doing “Space the Final Frontier” as a trailer. At least we get the chance to hear him do the famous monologue and at the same time continue your style of secrecy!
Live Long and Prosper
Discussions of morality are fine, so long as we aren’t bludgeoned over the head with the point. A lot of the old TOS episodes liked to try to put bows on things and explain things to us. Different time; we probably needed it.
By the time we got to that disastrous ‘Volcano’ movie with Tommy Lee (Jones, not the drummer) with everyone covered in ash and the little boy who looks around and says, “Look. They are all the same color.”, I wanted to tear my eyes out. I don’t like being preached to like I’m 5.
If you want to tell an introspective story about the human condition in the next Trek, that’s fine, but might I suggest placing a phone call to Mr. Penn regarding his adaptation of ‘Into the Wild’ for some pointers about how to do that effectively.
It doesn’t matter what they do for the next movie, because these characters don’t matter. They’re from an alternate timeline. Maybe if they did a movie that showed how the Prime Universe Enterprise Crew got together for the first time it would be worth watching.
Actually, just turn the franchise over to James Cawley. New Voyages/Phase II is where it’s at.
Original, please. No extra crispy.
I think “traces” of an original series episode weaved into a totally new story is the way to go. Give us Matt Decker who, in this timeline, survived the Doomsday Machine and now is involved with Kirk and company in some new imaginative adventure. Or something similar. Don’t recreate what we’ve already seen, just remind us here and there.
They have the realism and characters down, just don’t ever forget the amazing imaginative storytelling that is synonymous with TOS.
60- I do believe the destruction of Vulcan serves a VERY important function in this film. It isn’t an insult, but it is a very visceral way to make sure the fanbase knows the new film is playing for keeps. It’s an enormous reminder there will be no temporal reset button, and though the universe may tend toward a certain history (hence everyone coming together), that history will NOT be a carbon copy of the Prime universe. If you can destroy Vulcan, you can destroy Earth. If you can kill Amanda, you can kill ANY of the characters. It’s a demonstration that we cannot expect the age old prequel problem of knowing how it will all turn out.
If Vulcan as the original planet is restored somehow, you will lose that. I miss Vulcan, but it was sacrificed to enable new stories. Very important from a dramatic standpoint.
I am not sure why everyone thinks Chekov’s age is way off in this film. Well, yes I do know- we’ve all been following the Okuda chronology, which was great but occasionally a little off. If the Prime Enterprise under Kirk launched in 2265, we know Chekov was on board (whether we saw him or not, he was there for Khan). So, it’s safe to assume he had finished the academy and was 22 in 2265. This is six to seven years before that, making Chekov around 16 in 2258 in the Prime universe, regardless of the conjectured Okuda birthdate of 2245. Depending when his birthday falls, we are only talking a difference of months from the onscreen evidence, not years. Indeed- do we KNOW Ensign Chekov was fresh from the Academy in TOS? Did he serve as a wiz-kid on someone else’s ship? Walter Koenig BTW was 30 when he played Chekov.
I agree with the above posters, especially 51. – make it something new, with some minor crossovers and references to the prime ST universe (or else why create an alternate reality and then go back again?). No Khan, no Borg please (been there, seen that).
Add a tiny bit more of science, exploration, some kind of conflict would be interesting (maybe between Romulans and Klingons with the Federation as mediatior). Maybe a cold war or something (more in the direction of tension than open battle). No single villain or destroy the Earth plots, we’ve seen that in the first one, make it to a more general evil (like some dangerous desease, race or technology).
Spock should become less emotional, more self-restrained, now that some time will have passed, maybe he should feel kind of ashamed for his previous outburst, and choose to control his emotions stronger. This would also keep in check his relationship with Uhura. Their relationship should not go more than what was in the last movie.
Give Bones more screen time (a medicine/biology related plot would be just perfect for this).
I don’t personally care about technology, but I’d like to see more ineresting costumes and planets.
And please if you’ll have the lense flares, please keep them off people’s faces.
And no Kirk, please, oh, and no Sybok:)
Seeing Kirk’s family would be interesting though
Clearly, the cast needs more women. I would love to see, for example, a young Carol Marcus show up at some point, but not necessarily be enamored of Kirk.
As far as Spock/Uhura goes, it’s going to be like walking a tightrope. I know that storyline was really popular with women, so it needs to have a full, believeable arc. It’s not the main course of any story, but it should be an important thread running through any sequels.
Why not bring Joss Whedon aboard to write some good female characters?
#20 “If Star Trek cannot tell original new stories, then it is dead, so let’s see something we haven’t seen before, please”
While, as a fan, I agree with that, I have to point out that, to the hoards of NEW fans, retreads ARE new stories.
We’ve been watching reruns for 40 years. GIVE US SOMETHING NEW!
All new and original stories with some references to TOS. Perhaps one or two TOS characters (no more Khan please) like Cyrano Jones or Kor. I would love to see relationships grow and develop amonst the new cast. I liked the Spock/Uhura relationship. I would also like to see more of the characters backgrounds. That could probably be done in flashbacks.
Oh, and Nick Frost for Cyrano Jones please! I think he would be awesome.
please please please NO LENS FLARES
NO LENS FLARES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From my standpoint, the Gorn could serve as the perfect new adversary for the crew. For starters, they are almost like a new species because we know so little about them. This gives the writers lots of room to invent new things about them and generally make them more interesting. All we realy know about them at this point is that they’re highly territorial. Moreover, they can be made to look truly “alien” something the Romulans never really obtained in the first movie. All this could be gained by simply inventing a new adversary, but the why invent a new alien if you can get the same results from an existing alien? The “Lizard-man that fought Kirk” is almost as much of a Trek legend as “Kirk and the Green Girl” so it would serve as a connector for someone who has never seen Star Trek. What do my fellow TrekMovie readers think?
I’m in favor of something new, with just some touches of familiar elements (very similar to the way the current movie handled things). For instance, I wouldn’t have a problem with Harry Mudd being a character, just not involved in a remake of Mudd’s Women or I, Mudd.
I didn’t read the whole thread as its pretty long BUT did anyone consider the fact that Spock (prime) mind melded with Kirk, so now Kirk knows everythink Spock knows? So, my point is that all this stuff that will happen beyond the control of the Nero time screwup, Kirk will already know about and how to handle it. For instance: He already knows how to kill the planet killer when it shows up. He knows where Zephrem Cochran is……he knows those assho#s from the other galaxy that push that button and turn you into a cubey thing are coming and what to do about it. See, I think it would be funny as hell for everyone in Star Fleet to be shitting themselves about this miles long killing machine showing up and kirk just swooping in and setting off a ###megaton anti matter explosion and saving the day, all while eating an apple and gawking at Uhura’s ass. See what I mean? Brilliant.
When the first movie is a complete reboot, where characters are different, I´d like to see some TOS story retell – it is not only Khan, but some Gorn action movie would be a nice sequel for me.
I’d really like to see something totally original. Maybe with an existing TOS villain, maybe something new. But please, if you use an existing TOS villain, Don’t go with Khan. Anything you’d do would have to retell Space Seed anyway, and Khan was much better in TWOK. Kang or Kor or the Romulan commander from Ballance of Terror would be interesting though.
Also, whats Spock Prime doing now? Is he hung up about the Temporal Prime Directive, or is he saying “The laws of time and space, Who gives a Smeg?”
206- I think you’re on to something. Fully rendered modern Gorn could be pretty interesting. The Enterprise may be exploring and accidentally encroach. Hmmm….
Oh- and don’t forget Jolene Blalock as T’Pring.
If the sequel movie follows on “Quantum of Solace” style then it should be a new story because in the new time line the TOS crew are actually on the Enterprise a few years earlier because of the events in the 1st movie.
There can be a new adventure that takes us to TOS places earlier because we’re in a different timeline.
We could visit “The Cloud City” on the way to another mission. We might visit TalsoIV where Kirk may be tempted to shack up with Vina. What of Ben Finney? He must be spitting even more chips since Kirk is promoted even earlier the before!
We could visit many places visted in TOS but tell a different story because we will be there years earlier then the events in the prime time line.
At the end of the day though, just write a good character developing story with a few exotic backgrounds from the original series and I’ll be happy.
1) Explore strange new worlds
2) Seek out new life and new civilizations
3) Boldly go where no man has gone before
-
Wonder. Unique and mysterious adventures. Crew as “family” that experiences the challenges…together (with touches of humor).
–
Please, no brewery shots.
Klingons please. If we want to keep “non-fans” interested, then we should have Star Treks most famous (apart from Vulcans) aliens.
Everyone knows what a Klingon is and we’ve never really had a real badass Klingon bad guy in a movie. Chang was devious and cunning like a Romulan and quoted Shakespeare… Kruge was abit badass but not very scary.
Star Trek ‘Something Something’ needs a good bad guy, we’ve established the crew and their relationships, which needs to be built on, but the biggest thing we need is a real badass bad guy, and a bad guy that has alot of screen time, one thing Nero lacked.
I think the next movie should have the Klingons seeking revenge for the destruction of their fleet and gearing up for a big war with the Romulan Star Empire. The Federation, knowing what really happened, try and settle things peacefully. Sh!t goes down and the Federation are drawn into a war with the Klingon Empire (they are accused of supporting the Romulans)
Something like that??
I have, thankfully, gotten good reviews on the Trek book just published. (”Troublesome Minds.”) It’s a classic Trek “episode” that has action, character and moral dilemmas. If I can do it, I know for a fact these guys can. Go original story, and the characters we know/love and they can’t lose.
• Keep JJ in the Directors seat
• Keep Michael Giacchino in the Composer seat. There is a theme (especially track Enterprising Men).
• Make entire movie of an Exploration Theme.
• Keep the pace (Do not slow down)! Slowing the pace to what Start Trek movies were would be a mistake.
• Open movie with a situation that requires involving entire cast getting out of a situation (fast paced, Action, Humor). This would pull people into main story.
• Movie should focus on entire cast’s synergy. Working together. Needing each other.
• Make McCoy less angry. Focus on the main three’s chemistry (Kirk, Spock & McCoy).
• Allow Kirk to win more fights. Have him become sneakier, cunning.
• Allow Scotty to show his Scottish side. I liked when he butted heads with Spock (ex. Tholian Web, The Paradise Syndrome, etc.) and displayed his love for good scotch.
How about:
-Begin the new movie at the thrilling climax of an orginal series early episode, re-imagined/enhanced as you see fit. THEN launch into your real, brand new story for the movie.
-”Explore strange new worlds, go where no man has gone before” – a good approach. New is good.
-Could you give Scotty a more modern looking place to work? Perhaps an engineering control area with your new bridge aesthetic, overlooking the brewery? I say this with humble respect, but the brewery ain’t workin’ for me.
Loved the first movie guys, I’m sure you’ll knock it out of the park once again, and thanks for being open to some fan input.
New story. New (original) villains. New and exotic worlds. Complete sentences. Good time to set up a series of flixs. Good time to use english properly (points at self). Grammar gets an F. Remember your mantra Orci: Space, the FINAL frontier… FRONTIER.. wild yo. Make it so.
ORIGINAL STORY!!
I’m sure you guys are being paid a butt load of money–come up with an original idea, don’t retell an old adventure!
#203 “GIVE US SOMETHING NEW!”
Hear! Hear!
My vote is for an original story with familiar secondary characters and as many nods to what-came-before as you can cram in there.
Good luck, Gentlemen. Please respect the past. I’m sure it’ll be great.
New story please and I beg you…not another revenge storyline.
I’m reading the “Mere Anarchy” novel now and LOVING it. Not that they could or should do that, but a great story like that. A prime directive story perhaps.
Maybe a story that parallels our world today.
Get the Enterprise back to its primary mission.
And while you’re at it, write in a great briefing room scene where Kirk, Spock and McCoy are having one of their great “trinity” discussions.
The writers and actors have hooked us all with the portrayal of these three characters. Now please give us more time with the three of them together next time.
I’d love the next movie to really explore the developing union between Kirk, Spock and McCoy.
Can we not make the characters a bunch of a**holes?
# 184:
You’re confusing Nazis with Communists dear friend…
What’s wrong with a company working for collective good instead of just trying to sell crap that’s already dated in a few months?
Is that not honorable?
The company’s name stays for the quality of the product, though.
It’s not my fault that the authors messed with the system during the first 20 years of Trek…
Quote from STAR TREK : THE VOYAGE HOME:
Gillian: “Don’t tell me they don’t use money in the 23rd century?”
Kirk: “Well, we don’t.”
I’ve got to go with brand new story, give us something we haven’t seen. I don’t want to see a new version of Khan or anyone else.
I like Oz’s (218) idea of starting with the climax of a big epsiode with mad effects, dommsday machine or some such crazy device, then lead into a new story.
Hopefully everyone is now satisfied that this is a Mirror Universe style Alternate Reality and we’re all along for a great ride, with new fans exploring this and following us into the Prime Universe adventures on Blu-ray, books, comics, a new TV series perhaps?
Star Trek is back, relevant, fun, big, brash, and cool for all to see, and I’m loving it! I actually saw kids in a video store looking at TOS movies on Blu-ray and got chatting to them about the new movie. They loved it and wanted to know about the discs they had in their hands. A brief run through of Trek history and 3 sales of TOS 6 movie collection later, I left a happy man with 3 new Trekkies converted.
Sequel can’t come soon enough!!
Orci & Kurtzman have their work cut out for them. I’m sure the numbers aren’t all in, but I’m willing to bet the majority of fans are looking for something new and original. The fact is, Star Trek fans haven’t had much to be excited about until this new film, and most fans do not want to see Trek get bogged down again by traveling familiar ground. The new battle-cry is, “Give us something new!” Now it will be all about “new.”
There’s really nothing “new” under the sun, and, as I’ve commented before, what EXACTLY would “new” be like? We have a starship, a cast of characters, they have to get into some kind of trouble, and then they have to return home safely by the end of the movie. NOT an easy framework to come up with something new. So, what we’re really looking for is something unexpected. The new film worked in many ways because we were given a lot that was unexpected (unless you read all the spoilers, of course). When you are thinking “this” is going to happen, and then the rug gets pulled out from under you and “that” happens, then you are surprised, stopped in your tracks, and have to see things from a new perspective… that often amounts to a successful film (Sixth Sense, for example).
As for a villain, it would be interesting to see an antagonist that is not someone looking for revenge, or is simply a criminal/evil-doer, or a threatening piece of machinery… but what would that be? Kirk must confront some sort of adversary; that’s just essential story-telling. Even if it’s a shape-shifting cloud creature, it’s got to give Kirk a nasty headache, or else people are just gonna fall asleep.
It would be very easy to look over some old TOS/TNG/VOY/etc. episodes and steal this, that and the other thing, and piece together a story. Do we really want to return to Beta III to find out that Landru has been reconfigured by traveling Bynars, and the planet is on a collision course with the Doomsday Machine? NEGATIVE!
I’m sure your eyes are glazing over by now, Mr. Orci. But here goes …
- No time travel.
- No revenge plots.
- No Big Threats headed toward Earth.
- Yes to an intricate, dense (and hole-free) plot with unexpected twists.
- Yes to a personal story with bigger ramifications (”City…Forever,” “Doomsday Machine,” Journey to Babel”).
- Yes to encountering an alien antagonist that requires guile and intelligence — and some solid science, not technobabble and maguffins — to overcome (”Corbomite Maneuver,” “Arena,” “Balance of Terror”).
FWIW, besides most of the casting, and most of the performances, I really didn’t like much of anything about the new movie. But I like you personally, and I like your spirit. I have hope that the next movie will be more my cup of tea. I wish you all the best (and no writer’s strike this time! :-))
Scott B. out.
I like the engine room on the USS Enterprise in JJ’s film. I had no problems with it. I thought it looked fine. The only other USS Enterprise engine room I liked was the Motion Picture (which I think they also used in Wrath of Khan). All the other engine rooms (especially TNG and beyond, which includes the Enterprise show) looked fake to me.
“And that doesn’t mean we can just be shocking for no good reason and just throw everything away.”
15. cd – I guess destroying Vulcan for no good reason doesn’t count…
60: Boborci – There was good reason.
Hopefully since you’ve chosen this road to go down, the consequences of having Vulcans refugees wandering around without a homeland will play into the sequel you’re working on.
As far as story structure goes, I see where you’re coming from. Nero got his vengeance against Spock, then attempting to do the same to the Federation. Vulcan imploding upped the stakes and showing audiences in no uncertain terms, what Nero had in mind for Earth.
My rationalization of those facts, doesn’t mean I have to like it though… :( much like the whole AU created because you all thought a traditional prequel was never going to cut it.
My knee jerk reaction would be to see something from the TV show…. But when you think about it, you just can’t go there. Fans already know how that story was dealt with. It needs to be an original tale. At best, they might throw in an element of a story from TOS, but the main story HAS to be original.
Let’s explore something new and or strange!
However, Talos IV would play well into the new mix…
I like that people seem to want something new. No Shatner-love Bill but not for the movies now. I’d prefer no Khan or Mudd. And it’s a difficult task for these big box office movies need to have the obligatory battle in space but that’s been done so many times…they need to be careful. Critics will be ready to attack to overcompensate their love of the first film. Character development, story, creative CGI sequences….
Khan and Shatner Khan and Shatner Khan and Shatner Khan and Shatner Khan and Shatner Khan and Shatner Khan and Shatner Khan and Shatner
Shatner and Khan.
oh oh! and Jean Luc.
Please, please, please give us a new story! Sure, classic references can be there, but why would we want to see a story we’ve ALREADY seen? That’s just…boring. This new film gave us a new story, and that was great! As much as I’d like to see someone like Javier Bardem play Khan, I’d rather see a new villain who completely TRUMPS Khan, for example.
Always go with new. Believe me, the audience will feel much more satisfied with that in the long run. =)
BobOrci-
Do a new take on the original episode “Arena”. The battle on Cestus III would be a great opener to a movie kind of like the D-Day scene from ‘Saving Private Ryan’.
Also? I REALLY dig on Giacchino’s new Star Trek theme; strange how I find myself humming it sometimes when I’m driving. =)
Message to Bob Orci
Thanks for the job you did and everybody did on Star Trek
Please keep it about the characters.
Explore the Kirk/Spock/Uhura triangle
Develop the Sulu/Kirk relationship they saved each others life on that platform!
Pike/Kirk relationship.
If we feel the need for a blend of prime/au universe Use Spock prime to reminisce about adventures
Spock Prime/Spock
A new Prime Directive for Spock Prime. He isnt allowed to reveal info about prime/au differences.Put him in a conflict
No flashback with Shatner – Pine is Kirk now
And of course Kirk/Spock/McCoy develop that relationship
Please modernize the engine room to the level of rest of ship. It looked like the titanic in there.
I could do without that little troll hanging out with Scotty
Please more shots of Enterprise
Again thanks for bringing Star Trek back to all of us.
Cheers
If you think about it, there HAS to be some references to the original episodes for this reason: Spock said the original characters were behaving as he remembered them because the timeline was trying to correct itself. If that is the case, then events must still happen or at least, attempt to happen.
Bob O. -Have Prime Spock use the Guardian of Forever to correct the timeline.
#217-{said}
• Keep the pace (Do not slow down)! Slowing the pace to what Star Trek movies were would be a mistake.
I wholeheartedly agree, with one exception. You MUST have the Kirk/Spock/Bones relationship expanded upon with briefing room discussion(s), comments bantered back and forth, etc. It is a real TOS strength.
Also, I agree about keeping Giacchino as the composer. He did some nice stuff in there. I think it is just fine keeping that theme he established when the Enterprise was revealed, However, he really needs to NOW use (and I know why he didn’t in the last movie) A. Courage’s Star Trek theme throughout the movie as well. Base some of the music on both themes, but crank out new stuff as well.
My ONLY complaint about his music was that the tones used on the Enterprise reveal were basically what was used in over 60% of his entire musical score. Do more original stuff. Heck, the end credits overture had LOTS more good stuff than the movie itself did. I swear, there were several things in that End Credit overture that never appeared in the movie (perhaps stuff that was editied out?). I liked that stuff!!!!
Hi, Mr. Oci
Wouldn’t it be awesome if, at the start of the sequel, we get a brief reflection on something from the first film? Say, Spock and Kirk having some kind of heart to heart conversation and they mention something that happened or something Spock Prime told them. I think it would make for a sweet little tether to the first movie you guys did.
And then, for this sequel, please give us some true exploration, even if it is during a portion of the film… even if it is like the scene when Chekov and Captain Terrel discovered The Bottony Bay on Ceti Alpha V. Something exciting and new and fascinating.
And one last thing – omg please consider doing a cliff-hanger to set up film number three… (shades of SW:TESB). I know it would double or even triple the drama and cause a feeding frenzy leading up to #3…
Thank you
15. “I guess destroying Vulcan for no good reason doesn’t count…”
Ha! No good reason that YOU could think of!
60. BobOrci…
Alternate timeline = alternate stories.
There is no reason why new scripts and stories couldn’t be written borrowing from the past and altered for the new timeline. I would be interested in seeing Kahn as a good guy thanks to the threat of Nero, yet still somehow wind up a villain, as though it were simply his fate.
May the live long and prosper be with you.
#37, great post. How about in the beginning of the next movie Spock Prime finds a way back to his universe so he’s not around to help alternate Kirk, Spock, and starfleet cheat. Maybe new Data and Enterprise-E find a way to open a new wormhole/anomoly and send a new Jellyfish thru to rescue Spock Prime.
Then go on to a new story in the alternate universe and let CBS make direct to DVD stories in the “Prime” universe.
225. cinemadeus: ‘You’re confusing Nazis with Communists dear friend…’
The Nazis were diehard socialists when they started out: national socialism. They were effectively the Labour Party with racism.
And the quote from TVH is clearly a joke that was misunderstood by the people behind TNG. There’s obviously finance in the Federation in the TOS era – perhaps not handheld cash, but maybe electronic money transfers – and some people are clearly wealthier than others.
Do you think everyone’s apartment is as nice as Jim Kirk’s? And do you think the guy cleaning the floor at Starfleet Academy in TWOK was doing that job ‘for the greater good’ of a commie collective?
And remember, in ST09 young James Kirk was stealing his dad’s car because his dad was going to sell it!
TNG’s approach to finance was straight out of the potheaded mind of a hippie commune. It deserves utter contempt! Just think, Federation citizens wouldn’t be able to travel beyond the ‘Iron Curtain’ of the Federation without money. No freedom there.
Imagine the scene in a bar on a non-Federation world:
‘Evening guv’nor. I’d like a pint of Budweiser Classic and an Alderbaran Whisky chaser.’
‘There you go sir, that’ll be 10 Grotzits!’
‘Sorry, but I’m a citizen of the Federation. We believe that we are made of better stuff than you neuroses-of-the-week-with-bumpy-foreheads-and-silly-noses-types, so we don’t have money.’
‘Really? ‘Ere Alf! This geezer thinks he can come in ‘ere for a free-for-all!’
‘I say! But I’m evolved! We’re better than you lot! We travel round the universe for no pay telling other races how we used to be like them and how much better we are than them now!’
‘Tell you what mate! Since you’ve got no money and you want some beers, you can go round the back and wash some dishes!’
‘How dare you! We don’t wash dishes! We put our plates back in replicators and recycle them as food!’
‘Fine! Alf, take this one round the back and chop one of his legs off. We can sell it to one of the cannibals down the road. We’d normally take a buttock, but you Starfleet types are too tight-arsed!!’
I think they need to provide some continuity with the previous movie. It would be inconsistent with everything we know about Romulans to think that they would not try to take advantage of the fact that Vulcan is gone. Maybe deal with Romulan warmongers wanting to take over the Federation now that it’s weakened, opposed by Romulans who would rather have peace now that Vulcans are not a threat. Something in the spirit of ST VI. Maybe a metaphor for what’s happening with North Korea and Iran.
Hey, I’m new here but love the ideas expressed here- definitely go for a new adventure!
I like the idea of Pine Kirk maturing into the Kirk we knew in TOS with his the sense of wonder and tolerance, and I like the idea of new Spock having to come to grips with the loss of Vulcan and his relationship with Uhura.
However, I want Orci & Kurtzman to know that as a LOST fan, one of the things I love about LOST is the fact that it’s a mystery that takes time to figure out – someone here mentioned getting the new crew into solving a mystery – that’s the best idea I’ve heard yet!
Please be inventive in the new story – we viewers like to be challenged!
Let Kirk be Kirk. let him use his wits and cunning. like using the fake device Corbromite and have Kirk and Spock play chess in the next movie. In fact that was the first scene in Tos of Kirk and Spock Playing chess. So if you can open the new movie with those 2 playing chess. Would love to see Quintos Spocks face as he looses to Pines Kirk. Maybe have that a bit of theme with Kirk using chess like manovers in takeing on the bad guys.
Memo to BobOrci
Go Buy DS9 Seasons 1-7 watch them all then brain storm ideas
#229. BaltarStar Galactica – June 17, 2009
I like the engine room on the USS Enterprise in JJ’s film. I had no problems with it. I thought it looked fine. The only other USS Enterprise engine room I liked was the Motion Picture (which I think they also used in Wrath of Khan). All the other engine rooms (especially TNG and beyond, which includes the Enterprise show) looked fake to me.
For me it was to much steam in the engine room for a starship. There must be a lot of water dripping from the consoles, because the rooms have only circuits inside the ship and the air condition has a lot to do with drying the air. So the crewmembers will be dried like an antipasti tomato, too. Also, modern ships with a present time diesel engine have no steaming valves (and they are cooled by liguid with water) – why must be steam in a ship with a futuristic engine?
In the next movie JJ Abrams has to show an engine room with a lot of rust and water on the consoles. And the consoles have to be weathered.
Ok, Mr. Abrams, please be kind and show us a futuristic engine room with no steam, no huge tanks with tank caps and chains (for me it was in the very first scene of the engine room clear that it could be a beer brewery or somthing similar). Otherwise it looks too artificial.
Memo to Boborci (2)
If there is a science concept that is hard to understand you don’t have to explain it! The characters can be confused by it too
#245 VERY nice touch. The Kirk/Spock chess games are an important part of TOS history (I wonder how many games they actually played on screen though).
If you’re going to reuse an old idea, ask what the changes in the timeline would do to it and twist it that way. Perhaps an old ‘bad thing’ becomes a new ‘good thing.’ The main story can be new, but you can use echos of the prime timeline, since it will be different but not entirely the same.
For example, Spock’s half-brother Sybok tried to seek out knowledge that was forbidden by Vulcan teachings. Let’s say he was offplanet during the movie. Instead of researching forbidden knowledge which leads to him seeing visions of ‘God’ and going nutters with that, he instead devotes his life to recreating and protecting the Vulcan knowledge that was lost. Since Sybok’s mother also died, perhaps he now has a deeper connection to Spock that he never had in the prime timeline and helps him cope.
Have the Mirror Spock (Spock-M) and Spock from the Alternate Mirror Timeline (Spock -A -M) cross through a spacial anamoly and meet Spock-Prime and Spock-A (Quinto), all this during pon-farr, and then throw T’Pol into the mix. Let’em slug it out, Vulcan Death Grip style :)
Horta!
“I don’t envy your job at all” Bob Orci: “yup”
Seriously though, that job would be pretty stressful.
249. Bart – June 17, 2009
#245 VERY nice touch. The Kirk/Spock chess games are an important part of TOS history (I wonder how many games they actually played on screen though
I can recall them playing chess only in that first Episode. It was talked about a few time latter though in the Corbromite manouver and of corse Kirk also played Poker. Of corse theres my all time faveroite game of Fisbin.
Isn’t that funny Mike (254). One scene at yet we all feel we’ve seen hundreds of games between them.
I loved the new film.
I’m sure the guys will come up with something great for the sequel. I don’t care which direction they go with it as long as it is another quality film.
Finding a direction to go with the sequel is going to be a daunting task when you think about it… Is it better to go back to the future with a character like Khan or is it better to do a totally new action packed story that the general audience (which made this film a major hit) is expecting. Or would an exploration film be best after so many “bad guy” movies in a row?
I think they will be fine whichever direction they go as long as
they just stick to the basics and make a quality film about these great characters and not try and get too fancy with huge special effects that take away the humanity of characters… Remember, it’s the characters that makes this series great not big fx.
-From a selfish point of view I would hope that they could get William Shatner involved somehow and if the story allows give Kirk prime a better ending.
re: 247 Aggi
I think you’re just one of those nitpickers, which is fine. There’s nothing wrong with that. But I’m not a nitpicker. I just enjoyed the show. I wasn’t wondering where the antimatter inducers were, or where the dilithium crystals were stored, or why there were giant pipes with filled with water. The movie was great and it allowed me to suspend my disbelieve and buy what was presented onscreen. I didn’t sit there and go, Oh my God! That’s the Engine Room! I was like, Oh My God, Scotty got beamed into that tank of water! And I watched Kirk’s reaction. And I enjoyed it.
Job well done on the whole enterprise, Orci & Kurtzman and crew. I saw the movie twice and I want to see it again.
Mr. Orci and Kurtzman,
If you’re lurking, you now have the opportunity to tell the kind of “Star Trek” story that’s been burning in your guts.
The universe has been wonderfully reset. Now it’s time to take that and boldly go where no man has gone before, taking Kirk and company to farthest corner of the galaxy, where they are truly alone and only have each other to defeat the antagonist or solve some alien mystery.
Earth does not always have to be in danger for a Trek to be epic. Give us a truly alien world, a truly alien mystery, and a truly alien antagonist.
But more important is how our heroes are affected by this. It still must be their story. It still must matter to us and them.
For example, how does Kirk fail at first so that he can succeed later. Things shouldn’t be so easy for him in the second film. What about Spock? How does his logic guide him the situation and how does that logic serve Kirk? Or how does this alien/whatever bring them into direct conflict with each other?
I am confident that “Star Trek” is in good and capable hands. Whatever you come up with, I’ll be there in the theater on opening night. Trek is fun again thanks to you guys.
Okay my 2-cents!!!! I would LOVE to see an original story — NO RE-HASH of Kahn, etc. etc. And PLEASE no killing off Captain Pike. Bruce Greenwood did an outstanding job — new universe — KEEP HIM ALIVE!!!
NO Shatner cameo. Yes, “re-introduce” Gary Mitchell, Rand and Chapel!!! Let’s face it no matter how good the next one will be, it will be a major challenge top this movie!! As most of you know I am as old-school as they come, and no one WAS MORE skeptical than me — I ended up LOVING THIS MOVIE!!!! So please you nit-pickers, lets go off the “genious stuff” with Scotty and Chekov — I had no issues with that. Truth is if we wanted to there is a great deal we can nit-pick, but Abrams and crew must be commended for DOING IT RIGHT!!!! Respecting the “old” while mixing it with the “new”. Again I was a huge skeptic — the fact is (and just look at critical and box office success), Abrams and crew have “done the impossible” making a 45 year-old franchise RELEVANT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BobOrci,
Let Kirk win a fight or two in the next movie. He seems to be loosing every fight he’s in until someone else (Enterprise / Sulu) comes along.
He also seems to like hanging off of ledges :-)
To Bob Orci:
Read the novel THE KLINGON GAMBIT by Robert E. Vardeman and be enspired. It has some very good sci-fi-ideas that could be expanded, twisted and used for a philosophic theme as well as for pretty hard and fast action and pure fun.
#19—”…please make it something deeper. Put in enough action and viz effects to blow my mind during the film, BUT put in something deep and thought provoking that makes me think about what I saw after the film.”
To be fair, I think this film has more heart than some are willing to afford it.
The Human Condition:
—-The psychological significance to a young man of a paternal relationship (regardless of whether or not the father is alive or dead) is explored through both of the story’s two main characters.
Social Commentary:
—-We also see the blatant racism depicted in Vulcan society in its treatment of Spock, and that arrogant bigotry is only mildly toned down (in the form of underhanded praise) in the council scene as compared to the Vulcan equivalent of the schoolyard playground. Indeed, Spock’s biracial heritage is perhaps even more socially significant today than it was 43 years ago—particularly given that such a large portion of the population (including the US President) now deals with similar cultural issues in their lives.
Philosophy:
—-Add to that the philosophical ground covered in the fatalistic/deterministic manner in which certain events and relationships in the story are almost naturally predestined, and I would say that this film gives the audience more than enough to chew on besides a couple of hours worth of action.
And just what was so “thought-provoking” about the earlier Star Trek movies, really?
They had themes, sure, but I’m at a loss at the notion that they were somehow more intellectual or thought-provoking. The truth is—they were always things which are quite obvious anyway, and ultimately spelled out in a rather elementary manner in every case.
I think that ST09 holds up quite well in comparison.
I still like my idea of the new crew fighting a race of flatulent lizards. It could be epic and the movie’s title would be…………………
GORN WITH THE WIND!
20. Ian B -
I always said that Chekov was one of the smartest and capable of the original crew… Just think: he was navigator, he did weapons, he frequently took Spock’s science station, he was probably down in engineering because Khan recognized him from “Space Seed”, in STTMP he was security chief…
#263 “I still like my idea …”
Glad to hear someone does.
It really has to be an exploration episode.
The ‘new life’ episodes on film are pretty crappy, so I’d vote for a dispute with the Klingons over a ‘new civilization.’ Old School. Keep in mind that AVATAR is going to raise the bar for alien worlds and aliens themselves.
The one TNG-era ghost that hasn’t been busted by the new movie is the rubber forehead humanoid “alien.” The aliens in the new movie were cool and inventive, but after AVATAR they’ll look quaint.
I wish this were a TV series so that we could get some of both actually – fresh new stories with our beloved crew and some new takes on the onld stories… sigh. But, if I had to choose, I’d go new for the 2nd one. If we get a third… go for a remake of an episode.
# 242 Dom
My goodness, you really seem to have a problem with TNG and the 24th century…
I don’t think the “no money”-issue in TVH was a joke. Since the arrival of the the crew in San Francisco 1986 it was suggesting that they don’t know what money is. I guess you’re right with the suggestion of electronic money.
We don’t know how the economy in 24th century works. The statement that humanity no longer reach out for wealth or greed don’t mean they haven’t any money. Remember DeepSpaceNine: Every crewmember had to pay in Quark’s! So, there must be a payment-system around in the 24th century.
BTW: replicator technology make everything available at any time for nothing more than a “please”. With such a technolgy at hand, there is no need for greed or wealth. Everyone could have everything. I never heard in any episode that it was forbidden to found a company or produce things. The opposite was the case: Hand made things had a greater falue than replicated things for the characters (like Sisko).
A personal note: I think your Nazi-statement is not very fitting and a bit harsh. I guess you’re a very emotinal man, so this was perhaps a very emotinal erruption? And before you compare TNG with the Nazis, read some books first. Company owners in Germany between 1933 – 1945 get very, very, very rich because of Mr. Hitler (an he becomes very, very, very rich because of them).
A further suggestion for Mr. Orci and Kurtzman:
No space-nazis please!
i want to see a 2 film arc that would conclude with the disablility of captain Pike and the expense of those baffle plates that ruptured onboard a J-class training vessel, the delta ray radiation leaving him paralyzed, mute, badly scarred, and confined to a wheelchair at Starbase 11…
..and the big E starting it’s 5 year mission under Kirk’s command
the thrust of the sequals could be about Pike/Kirks relationship, sacrifice for the greater good, heroism, teamwork, and the triad bonding that forms between K/S/B due to Pike’s accident.
play this out behind the backdrop of a GREAT Klingon war scenerio which can be tied into ST-09 because the klingons are a little peeved at the destruction of all those cruisers.
we could have space battles galore, intrique, character development and glimpses of some famous background characters to boot like Gary Mitchell, Janice Rand( though I still think she was in the trandporter room in ST-09.. or someone had her exact hairsyle!!), Nurse Chapel, ensign Reilly, Captain Garrovick, commander Koloth and a Klingon empire that is slyly stylistic and way COOL. not Worfy stodgy or Krugy stupid.
hey… maybe i should write this thing!
I think that the irght thing to do is to begin the movie just as they are wrapping up a story from one of the episodes and then they are called to this new adventure.
Kirk and Koloth met before Trouble with Tribbles. I want a Klingon episode with Tom Hanks playing Koloth. Tom is campy enough to play a great Koloth. Tom is a top trekker too!!
It is obvious from TwT that Kirk does not trust Koloth. Maybe a story where Kirk and Koloth end up working together. It does not go quite right. To save his skin, Koloth lies to his crew and the High Council and blames the failure on the treachery of James T Kirk. This is how Kirk ends up with a Klingon target on his back.
Bob Orci name-checked Diane Duane’s “Spock’s World” as an inspiration, a novel which had T’Pring as a fantastically ambitious and conniving antagonist. I think she is the next great ST movie villain actually, not least because of her romantic entanglement with Spock, giving a built-in ‘human’ interest angle with Uhura.
With the Vulcans now scattered around the Federation as a displaced diaspora, the political analogies (a Trek hallmark) that could result from this are just too rich to pass over. Where TOS’s generation argued for racial integration, today’s political struggles have to do with tribalism and the fallout of colonialism. This is fertile territory for Trek-style dramatic metaphor, as well as kick-ass battle scenes.
What if T’Pring leads one faction, Sarek another? Puts Spock in a mighty awkward position, being the senior (only?) Vulcan in Starfleet. And such scenarios lead themselves to putting Kirk into the right kind of drama, i.e. fateful decisions — pitting friendship against duty, career against principle.
#258—-”Earth does not always have to be in danger for a Trek to be epic. Give us a truly alien world, a truly alien mystery, and a truly alien antagonist. ”
While it’s certainly true that many (certainly those of us around here) might find such a tale to be one worthy of taking a look, I think that’s overlooking one of the great benefits of the classic “Earth is in danger” story. It does give the non-traditional Star Trek fan something tangible (and I know I’m using that term very loosely) with which to relate and identify. Despite all of the rest of this being so far-fetched and unfamiliar to all but a serious Trek fan, a grave threat to something inherently familiar is one in which every member of the audience can share.
This is the one thing that really differentiates the respective approaches to Star Trek on television and film, and in fairness, I think that’s good reasoning on the part of those who unfortunately cannot depend on established fans alone to carry the film at the box-office.
#73
Speaking of phasers … was it just me or were the phaser beams richocheting in that shootout scene? I always thought the phaser weapons were optical so they would have no physical mass to thud on impact.
JJ in the chair………………………………….. Check
Original story with Trek references…..Check
No Khan, whales or Kirstie Alley………Check
A few less lens flares……………………… Check
Yea, that would do it.
4. Rehash? Why rehash? ‘Cause this is Hollywood, baby! Home of came and went to a theater near YOU: Starsky and Hutch, The Beverly Hillbillies, Land of the Lost, The Brady Bunch Movie, Transformers, Lost in Space, The Addams Family, Get Smart, ad nauseum! Why burn a brain cell when you can ride off someone elses!
We need to see much more of this new mighty Starfleet and its XXL size ships! It would also be nice to see more of the Federation in this new universe and New Vulcan, of course!
Dear Boborci,
Please ignore all the fans and come up with another round of T.R.U. Trek. It worked last time.
What I would like to see is a James Bond-style stinger at the beginning that suggests a retelling of a story from the original show, and then move on to a new adventure that feels like an updating of elements of the original series.
“Captain, the planet killer is now out of power.”
“Man, that giant Nabisco bugle sure was a pain in the ass.”
“Sir, message from Starfleet — they want us to head to the Omicron Persei system…”
I’m not completely against a re-telling of a TOS episode but would rather have a new story I think, at least for the first sequel. Romulans are great and I wouldn’t mind seeing more of them. Klingons have been done to death and if I never see another Klingon it will be too soon! Unless we have an all-out war with the Klingons. I’m tired of the story where they have to go up against one renegade Klingon like Klaa or Kruge. Lets do a story that deals with the first major conflict between the two races. A couple more points:
Definately put Carol Marcus in the movie!
Put Gary Mitchel into the movie
I would love to see Shatner in the new movie but have the same concerns with many of the other views expressed. Unless it really makes sense, it would just seem like a trend to have an original cast member and the new franchise should set itself apart. It would almost make more sense to have Leonard Nimoy back.
#265 “Glad to hear someone does”
Oooooh, clever! :>)
How about a story where Q pits Kirk against an enemy (choose one, old, new) and basically it is a game with high stakes, like if Kirk wins Q snaps his fingers and Vulcan is re-created… if Kirk loses, Q snaps his fingers and destroys Earth and Andor. (nobody said Q was fair!)
This would have echos of say both “Gamesters of Triskelion” and “Arena” without strictly being a re-hash.
I find it hard to believe that with the Q-continuum’s interaction with humanity going back to the apple hitting Newton and Riker’s grandfather & Woodstock (Voyager episode “Death Wish”) that the Q’s would have overlooked Captain Kirk of all people among humans.
How about the idea that Q accidentally destroyed the planet near Khan Ceti Alpha VI, which actually may have set things in motion, or destablilized the star in “Countdown” to go nova near Romulus?
You could actually have a movie where Kirk faces off against Khan early and loses, and before Q can destroy Earth as part of the bet, another Q shows up (Corbin Bernsen?) and reveals that since Q destablized the timeline in the first place, then the bet was invalid, and then Q2 restores Vulcan?
271 – I don’t think Spock is the Senior/Only Vulcan in Starfleet. Remember, T’Pol has been part of Starfleet (she left the Vulcan High Command after the Xindi Incident) so it is safe to assume she is still alive, and still involved with Starfleet. If Archer is alive – she probably is too. Wouldn’t mind seeing her in this new movie, even if in a small role.
I think the story has to focus somewhat on the demise of Vulcan. I mean – we’re talking about an entire planet being destroyed, and a civilization being scattered across the universe.
Imagine Spock, hijacking the Enterprise with the help of Spock Prime, to find yet-to-be discovered Guardian of Forever, in an attempt to save Vulcan from destruction. He did the same for Pike in TOS – why wouldn’t he do it for is own people? Maybe with a little help from T’Pol?
Have to admit – I’m still in the camp that the Khan story can be told in a new and original way – that has nothing to do with Kirk/Revenge. Search for that post if you’re interested.
I think a story can maintain originality – and still be tied deeply to what we know from TOS.
Ok, I didn’t read all the above, but here’s mine: (sorry if it’s been repeated)
3 different little stories/adventures/episodes in 1 movie. I miss having a weekly show and that would make me happy for a while, waiting for the next movie.
How cool would that be? 3 complete little adventures in the Star Trek universe.
Don’t even tell anyone that there are 3 stories, it will blow our minds trying to figure out what’s going on in the trailers.
Explore a strange new world and discover a new race, have a little war with another different new race (Andromeda?), and solve a mystery in the outer worlds. (Mudd doing something bad somewhere?).
It would be so easy. You could even tie the 1st and last adventure together somehow if you wanted.
Every member of the crew could be focused on that way, and it would be so much fun.
Just my 2 cents……..
My vote is for new stories!
Perhaps the star that goes supernova and threatens Romulus was the star the was in the Mutara nebula in Star Trek II the Wrath of Khan… so Q accidentally causes Khan’s planet to degrade, which causes the events of STII, causing the Genesis device to also make the unstable, which a century later explodes.
My son and I agree that if you PLANNED on doing a trilogy, then you should follow the example of Star Wars’ original trilogy concept:
The first story is the introduction and let’s you know that the adventure is about to begin. Obviously the destruction of Vulcan is the conflict that the first movie has set up to be resolved. The second movie should be the climax of the story and leave the viewers wondering if there will be any way our heroes can get out of the mess they are in. Sort of like “This is our darkest hour” kind of thing. LOTR did it and Empire Strikes back did it.
The third story should be a resolution of the established conflict and possibly resolve other issues that were foreshadowed in the first movie. Like maybe a re-alignment of the timeline. I know that that is a sensitive subject for Trek fans, but isn’t Star Trek supposed to be a little controversial?
Here’s the villainous species I want to see: GORN. They were seen in two episodes total, one of which made them look ultra weak, one of which made them look ultra bad***! Bring on the lizard-men!
Just sort out engineering…….please
Thanks all!
I think the new movie should echo TOS, but in storytelling spirit, and not in specific storylines. One thing the writers of TOS weren’t afraid to do was use their imaginations. I would say that if Orci and Kurtzman wanted to remain true TOS, they should excercise their imaginations in creating a new story.
# 280. Harry Ballz
Ah, Harry, truth be told, your posts often make me laugh. They remind me of my corny uncles and grandfather, whose material is so bad you can’t help but laugh! :-)
My random thoughts and desires. (The order is arbitrary)
1. Original story with classy and meaningful tie-ins.
2. Perennial Star Trek themes dealt with in a fresh way.
3. Budget and talent fully utilized to create a new level of epic Trek (not saying this wasn’t achieved in the 2009 film, it was, and I’m eager for more).
4. I always come away from the movie wanting some “strange new world,” “new life and new civilizations” type of satiation.
5. Obviously the core relationship dynamics are a must and really works.
6. A story, or some story element(s), that is capable of engaging the real-life existential situation of the audience on a philosophical-emotive level. Some of the best episodes of any Trek series had this quality imo.
#288 You are most welcome Boborci.
New Stories, please!
Where’s the excitement of a story that’s basically already been told? Not just in Star Trek but within the world of story telling in general, be it Books, Movies or TV. There’s nothing worse than when a movie-goer says something along the lines of, “I liked it [the movie] better when it was called Spartacus”. There’s nothing worse then when a story is predictable where you’re sitting in the theater and you already know where the story is going before it happens because you’ve basically seen it before in some rehash or other. Recycling old story lines it not the best idea if you’re trying to create suspense or tension in a story.
The sequel should be approached in the following ways, if at all possible:
1. No gimmicks involving former characters or villians as PRIMARY story drivers. Please, no Khan, Borg, Harry Mudd, Doomsday Machines, etc. No Shatner, no Stewart, and no crossover stuff. Make this a good, original Star Trek story.
2. Approach the villian from a true ANTAGONIST standpoint. Do not continue the pattern of “we have to stop the maniac from achieving XYZ goal.” Instead, have the villian standing in the way of a critical action the crew needs to take, or something of that nature.
3. Adjust the pacing / editing SLIGHTLY in favor of narrative / character / story over action stuff. For example, in the current film…cut the “Scotty caught in the pipes” scene in favor of the “Nero in Klingon prison” scenes. Don’t get me wrong…I love the action stuff…but don’t sacrifice a smooth logical story to get a few laughs or gasps.
4. Mantain the great focus that was placed on the characters and their relationships with each other. This is what made Star Trek great.
5. Continue to stay away from the heavy-handed, hammy, preachy crap that dragged Trek down in later years. Star Trek can be fun and engaging without making thinly-disguised social or political statements. Just keep it positive and thoughtful and everythign else takes care of itself.
Bob/Orci/ Abrams I hope you are reading this!!
First J.J Please direct the other one. You have done something so good with Trek. Trek Has so much potentiel, dont let it in the hands of an other team like so many other movie sequels. It’s your baby , make it grow. People loved it, Trek is back and cool.
Second Bob/Orci, i loved the first movie, You know what trek is about… Even if some old timer fans said that, that wasent trek, they are right … it was a good movie period.. good acting good directing and writing.. So yes it wasent a Trek film… It was The star trek i have long waited for. Please do not redo an old storie. They are so many thing that we have heard about but never seen… Romulan War( but i think that was before this movie??? Check it out) The war with the klingons?? Make it original, maybe ther were some aliens we never saw because they didnt have the budget or made them look like plastic puppets ( Gorn, tholians) . There is over 700 episode there’s alote of materiel to choose from in the backstories. The core of Star Trek was to explore, fine, lets see a new world that look’s amazing on screen, Alien, even magical ( Lord of the rings for example) Lets be amazed by something we havent seen before. Spock is going to repopulate an other world for the vulcan people… Follow that up. THE PRIME DIRECTIVE… Thats a cool subject an unique to Trek. Dont Forget to let your Characters grow, kirk-spock-Mckoy, The friendships, and aslo there fights and disagreements. See a crew member make a mistake that has repurcussions and get’s lectured. Maybe let see more of Earth but not in jeopardy this Time,, that has been done by everybody not just trek. But stay true to your comedy of the first one , the Characters and the adventure. See the crew go out in the unknown… it good even be freaky… star Trek can be anything as long as the crew is together.
Dont let people tell you what is trek cause the real fans are open minded, the other’s dont speak for the majority, look at the box office.
Special request… the action was good, Its was a great first movie, but the bar has to be raised adventure wised For the 2nd. I would loved to see the biggest space battle of all time. I would love to see more than two ships. The fleet for once, they are always alone. Maybe alote of little ship against the enterprise. The camera was always to close to the ship i found. it would be nice to see the big picture and make it feel real. ( In my opinion Battlestar gallactica succeeded very well in that domaine)
Anyways, congrats on the first one and the box office… i’ll just be glade to have another if it’s as good as the last one or better i hope. Even the non Trekkers loved it.
Live long and prosper, and i think it will!
The new movie set up the stage for the characters beautifully, now it’s time to really play on it.
Make Kirk’s development the focus of the story: he has shown that he is courageous and decisive, but he has still to show us that he is a true leader, that he commands respect. He IS the youngest captain in Starfleet now, he has a full crew under his command – that means that he has to convince about 80% of them of his worth! Let him make mistakes and learn from them. He shouldn’t stay “Captain Ken” for much longer. Develop the Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship further.
Ol’ Pointy Ears is, and always has been, my favorite character. But Spock had the whole “Am I human or Vulcan?” thing in ST09, he got the girl, and he was even allowed to fly in, phasers blazing, and to shoot Nero’s ship to pieces (Kirk “only” got to save his surrogate father, Pike). So, he doesn’t have to be as central to the plot as in ST09. And keep the Spock/Uhura relationship, I really like that, but don’t overdo it, it’s Star Trek, not “Desperate Spacemen”.
But introduce more interesting female characters – a love interest for Kirk would be welcome, too.
Don’t repeat the mistake most TNG movies made: they were mostly about Picard and Data, and the rest of the crew was just standing around and had hardly a reason for being there at all. Give everybody a good scene, but explore one or two of the crew a bit more deeply. Whether it’s Bones or Sulu or whoever should depend on the story!
I want an original story: the best TOS-episodes (like “The City …”, add your other favourites here) should not be remade, because they stand on their own as true classics, and the not-so-good ones – why bother? (But I dare Boborci & Co to make sense of “Spock’s Brain”! … Hmmm – maybe Sylar could steal it …;-))
Anyway, some nods to the old series would be nice “Easter eggs”, but we should admit that it is a new timeline – with new fans …
Somebody suggested a mystery story – good idea. And the Gorn have potential…
Finally, I want to join the BBG squad: bring back Gaila – she was fun!
295
I agree!
#282—-”I don’t think Spock is the Senior/Only Vulcan in Starfleet. Remember, T’Pol has been part of Starfleet (she left the Vulcan High Command after the Xindi Incident) so it is safe to assume she is still alive, and still involved with Starfleet. ”
Although she may very well be, I don’t think it’s ’safe to assume’ that she is either alive *or* still involved with Starfleet. There is an enormous gap common to both timelines between the events depicted in the ENT finale and 2233, and both she *and* her Starfleet career would have to surivive an additional 25 years *and* the destruction of Vulcan in order for that scenario to play out.
However, even if Spock is the only Vulcan to graduate from Starfleet Academy, that has never precluded other Vulcans from being members of Starfleet. It is quite possible that some Vulcans, particularly those who have received educations from the Vulcan Science Academy, might be awarded commissions without ever having attended SFA—instead completing some sort of brief Starfleet indoctrination course to supplement their VSA degrees. After all, it is difficult to imagine that the command and crew compliment of over 400 Vulcans aboard the USS Intrepid did not include any members of Starfleet.
297
Good point!
NEW STORIES!!!
With hints of some of the old ones..
You’ll do fine.
I’d like to see the movie start with THE END of one of the previously known adventures like “The Doomsday Machine,” kicking off the movie with a BANG with a beefed-up version of the climax of that episode, and then move on to a new adventure. Like the new movies are bookended by the episodes we already know. That way we get a glimpse of what they might have been, but only as an exciting jumping off point for the new, and the original events are preserved.
I thinks with the fact that the timeline has been changed drasticly (with the destruction of Vulcan), then you have to approach things new.
I would like to see a little bit about how the Vulcan’s come out of the whole destroyed home world bit, and how that plays out.
Overall I think that there should be new stories, but they should hold all the same elements the old stories did. My vote is for a movie that does not involve the destruction of earth, or the fate or mankind itself, but mabey a story based on exploration and discovery.
well there you go my two cents worth
One way to do what some people have suggested — Shatner/Nimoy appearing together, riffs on TOS episodes or even TNG-era characters popping up — would be to try what Pixar does: a short film at the beginning of the feature. It could be about five minutes and stand entirely alone. For fans, it would be not only a gift but a possible reference to a backstory only they would know; for nonfans, it would be fun to look at, perhaps a bit cryptic, but would not affect the main feature at all. Another reference point to this: “Hotel Chevalier,” the “preview” featurette to Darjeeling Limited, which featured Natalie Portman and tied in with the full feature.
When was Star Trek ever about the space battles? This is Star Trek not Star Wars. How about exploring strange new worlds???
They need to get the movies away from the TWOK model. If they are going to dip into episodes for ideas, or take some of the other characters, how about we see Kor, Kang, Koloth, etc. They could do Errand of Mercy, or something like it, or a Private Little War, etc. They need to stay away from time travel as well.
I haven’t seen the “Trek Made Me Wonder” moniker lately, but I’ve felt that epitomized how most fans feel about Trek. It expanded our horizons. So, I am really hoping for a fresh, new story. Bob and his writing partner are more than capable of giving us a great one!
#290 “remind me of my corny uncles and grandfather”
Thank you! I appreciate the sentiment/compliment!
#50……Amen!……I mean whats next a catfight between Chapel and Uhura?
…..remember that love interest between the two(Chapel and Spock) Was an underlying factor in Canon in both TAS and TOS…..”Amok Time’ and “Mudds Passion”….Spock still has time to “BECOME” more logic based.
Leave the past in the past and write a completely original and fresh story. When watching the original show as a kid for the first time, part of the fun was the mystery of the unknown.
I know some die-hards just can’t let go of the past because the past is so familiar and cozy, but enough of that.
NEW adventures please… we’ve had 40 years on reruns!
I think it should be an original story, but throw in little “blips” from the history background. Basically, little quick refenances that if you never got into the series, it won’t matter, but if you did, it’s like a nod to them.
#305- when was STAR TREK ever about space battles?
when it became a MOVIE instead of a glorified television show, that’s when.
you think that 233 mil was made by stories about guys with white/black paint on there faces as an alagory for racism??
heck no!
it was the kick butt action and special effects that drove them in, and the character interplay that brought them back.
if an audience wants social commentary, they arent doing it at 10 bucks a pop during a summer blockbuster.. they can watch the view and do it for free.
My only advice to them would be:
-Try to steer clear of the ST movie cliches. Don’t destroy the ship, don’t eject the warp core, don’t kill a major character, don’t have a maniacal villain, etc.
-The prime motivator of the film doesn’t have to be the destruction of a planet. STV and VI are good examples of successfully (maybe) basing the film on problems encountered in the pursuit of peace and enlightenment. It can work, and it would be a nice contrast to a lot of what’s on screen today. If you have to remake an episode, the one with the Babel conference could be your model.
-Slow the film down a little. TOS didn’t just have witty dialogue; it had great exchanges of dialogue, sometimes lengthy. I think the audience can handle it, even if they’re not used to it. The audience can also handle a little visual splendor… These characters are looking on unworldly places for the first time with human eyes… Let them and us appreciate it a little.
-Personally, I like a little allegory in my Star Trek films. I don’t know if ST09 had that (I caught a hint of waterboarding in the Pike interrogation scene… Does that make Nero a Dick Cheney proxy?), but I think there’s enough going on the world that the next movie can meaningfully comment on the human condition today without hitting the viewer over the head with moral lessons.
Anyone seen the trailer for ‘Moon’? Or, even better, the movie? (I know the trailer only, so far.)
Genuine SF like that, not an action-movie set in outer space, that’s what I would like the next Trek movie to be.
Yes, I know, that won’t happen. And so it probably won’t happen that I watch the next Trek.
#305
“When was Star Trek ever about the space battles? ”
Let’s see, The Corbomite Maneuver, Balance of Terror, Arena, Errand of Mercy, The Doomsday Machine, Journey to Babel, The Ultimate Computer, The Enterprise Incident, Day of the Dove, The Tholian Web, Elaan of Troyius, Star Trek TMP, TWOK, TSFS, TFF, TUC, Generations, FC…
I know there’s a call among certain fans to have a really through-and-through sci fi story, but it’s just not likely. The films have always been at their best with the swashbuckling adventure stuff. Leave the deeper explorations to a tv series, where there’s time to experiment.
#316
“The prime motivator of the film doesn’t have to be the destruction of a planet.”
But the plot of VI is driven by the destruction of a planetoid and the impending destruction of a planet (Kronos)! :)
319 sean: I’d say most of the shows you list *featured* battle and action, but they weren’t *about* battle and action.
# 305
I agree with you in that Star Trek “was never about the space battles” – if I want to watch ’splosions, I can always play a video game and don’t have to buy a movie ticket …
But I think you’re citing the wrong example here: what I like most about TWOK is that is has so much STORY! It has a lot of subplots (e. g. Spock/Saavik; Kirk/David and more), and a good space battle to boot! And when you think it’s over, the “Death of Spock” plot thread starts…
Unfortunately, telling more than one main story in a film seems to become a lost art – which isn’t even Good Business Sense, because those subplots give you a good reason to view a movie repeatedly, whether in a theatre or on DVD.
268. CaptainRickover
Oswald Mosley, Hitler’s great buddy, quit the Tories and joined Labour when they rose and from there later founded the British Union of Fascists. There was a large element of left wing ideology in Nazism, even if their eventual alliances came from the right. Indeed, although not anything to do with Nazism in any way, the ‘right wing’ ideology of neo-conservatism also has origins in disaffected liberals who shifted to the right.
Indeed, look how left wing, liberal middle class ‘champagne socialists’ with their intellectual theories are often the ones who want the most repression for the population because they feel they know better than the rest of us.
Personally, I find it terrifying that anyone can say the Federation of 24th Century Star Trek represents a positive future. It has all the hallmarks of a dictatorship. The 23rd Century of Star Trek, for all its many dangers is the sort of future I’d like to live in. The 24th, in contrast, is horrifically repressive. TOS showed space hippie dropouts with their godawful ‘music’, miners who legally pay for mail order brides, loonies like Doctor Adams and Kodos exist and can be called out for it. There were freaks and outsiders. Thank God there can still be hippies and thank God they don’t run things then!
The 24th Century, meanwhile, has Picard blithely allowing the genocide of the Boraalans in ‘Homeward’, because it might affect the socio-political structure of races in the vicinity. Put that into a present day context: a volcanic island is about to explode and the Americans won’t move a primitive tribe who live there because of its effect on the local economy. Quite rightly, there’d be global outrage and someone like Greenpeace organise volunteers to go in and save them.
One has to ask: in 25 seasons of Roddenberry/Berman 80s-2000s Trek, among the humans when did we ever really see any real drop-outs from society? Beyond the mildly dysfunctional Reg Barclay who was looked down on as something that someone stood in by mistake where were the misanthropes? Other than the Maquis, who are so pussified that they are other wiped out or turn into Starfleet brown-nosers at the drop of a hat, where are the anarchists, the rabble-rousers, the troublemakers.
When did we ever here about a human pressure or interest group? When did any equivalent-of rock musicians cause a scandal that made the news in the fleet? Did any Enterprise-D crewmembers ever have a p***ed up party playing heavy metal and have band practice between shifts? When did anyone watch a TV show or a news item? Did anyone watch pornos or have girlie posters in their lockers or quarters? When did we see a crewmember with a Playboy lying around on his desk? When did someone put up a poster on the noticeboard with a funny caption on? Did anyone vote in an election for the Federation president? The impression you get in the 24th Century is that there is no true civilian government, merely a bunch of corrupt admirals.
TNG humans are like something out of North Korea, brainwashed to worship the Prime Directive, abuse it to commit genocide, have no tastes in music outside those prescribed by the state, have replicators that cook and arrange food for them (also rubbish, incidentally: they might be able to manufacture the food, but there’s no way they could cook it to someone’s own taste!) Humans in TNG have lost their humanity. Pike fought against the Talosians and their prisons of illusions, yet TNG humans lock themselves on holodecks.
That’s why I’ll take James T Kirk, playing godawful loud music on his Nokia phone/iPod thingy, stealing his dad’s car from his stepdad and getting drunk on Budweiser while wearing Levi jeans over the horrifying 24th Century dictatorship anyday.
TNG’s universe represents all the worst aspects of communism and fascism under a veneer of liberal intellectual self-righteousness, thinking inaction leading to mass slaughter is justified and assumes it knows better than anyone else. I just don’t understand why more people don’t see it. 24th Century Star Trek is the Federation gone horribly wrong. It’s Star Trek’s ideals perverted. TOS was about exploring and learning. TNG is about going to strange new worlds and evangelising the Federation’s view of existence.
Ironically, Nero might have done a good thing: shaken the Federation out of its slide into totalitarianism and leaving Admiral Pike alive to fight for the human race’s belief in freedom.
And yes, I am emotional: I’m a 20th Century-born human, who has been nicknamed Spock before for seeming a touch detached and un-panicked in times of crisis, bizarrely enough! And no, I don’t take things that seriously. My lip isn’t quivering or my body shaking as I write the above. I take it all in fun. Take care. I’m off out for a pint! :)
(Not Budweiser . . . yuk! . . . foul stuff. The 23rd century can keep it!)
Some good, very good ideas here. There are a few that are seriously lacking, good vs. great storytelling takes careful thought not just plotlines stacked up like bricks.
Imagine if you could wipe out all that stuff in the Star Wars Universe, what you would have to work with = TONS OF NEW MATERIAL. But Star Trek doesn’t have YEARS like Lucas had to rewrite, Star Trek must be top-notch or this Alternate Timeline would be an exercise in futility.
Make the sacrifice worth it, Weerd1 has a good point about Vulcan being sacrificed in order to tell new tales. I agree that Vulcan (the original planet) should stay gone, it would dilute the whole alternate timeline plotline to restore it. It’s gone, that alone adds conflict to the entire reboot and it sticks…let our new characters have to deal with it. There is no telling how many things which might crop up due to Vulcan being gone, no more skirmishes with the Andorians, no more Vulcan logic to temper the universe. It’s a very “wild” universe out there and not warm and fuzzy which is easily tied up and packaged into a 2 hour film.
There are great favorites from the past to explore and how the new timeline changes them or leads them into a new direction apart from the Prime Timeline like Gary Mitchell, who never gets “zapped” to become a god-like being, who is to say he doesn’t have a great future in the new timeline?
Dr. Dehner, as well, who is to say she doesn’t have to die? Bring Chapel into the new mix, you could even make her a doctor, which could be a great conflict for Bones to deal with earlier while he is still young and less seasoned.
Matt Decker, I always liked this one, who says he has to die from the Doomsday Device? You could even show Will Decker as a youngster and there is still more.
Talos IV has alot of potential, who says Pike has to be crippled while rescuing cadets in a J-Class starship? I would rather have Pike being an Admiral and being one of the most influential Starfleet admirals around. The idea of having Kirk “lean” on Pike has a great potential to show his inexperience and youth. Great ideas here to glean from.
I am not sure if I like the idea of Carol Marcus being around. She was exposed in the Prime timeline, why do we have to have her around, but if you choose to, use her in a fresh way, who says Kirk even has to like her? What if she were some evil-scientist, to challenge the new crew with some gone-wrong ideology of a perverted Genesis Device? Use her a different way that does not mirror the Prime timeline, it has been done before…let’s do it different.
Romulans really need a rest for a bit, let them stew in their own juices or have them pose a threat to the new Vulcan Colony, perhaps a take-over plot when Spock Prime tries to re-unify the two races?
Klingons needs to be in the new film, I think they really need to be shown in this new timeline, who says they have to be the same? They could have altered temperment, you could make them more violent or shed some backstory on their culture which we have never seen before. Something different and new is in order.
Use all of this to your advantage, I am sure that in time, the plot will jump out at you (the writers,) but it takes necessary “going through the motions,” and trial and error to expose the epiphanies and moments of clear insight as how to proceed. I don’t envy you (the writers,) but I would give my eye-teeth to be involved in writing the second film’s script. And this is coming from a Digital Film major with a minor in Mass Comm, this is right down my alley. I am really enjoying how much potential this reboot has to the franchise.
Don’t ever forget, RISK is our business. And what a great business to have exploring an entirely new universe and it being called STAR TREK!
AWESOME!
Trekwebmaster
@216:
I purchased Toublesome Minds from Amazon UK. I haven’t read it yet. The reviews looked good.
I am currently reading Mere Anarchy. I am halfway through the book, and I am enjoying it immensely. The interactions between the alien Payav and the Federation over a 30 year period is handled in an interesting way. I highly recommend it.
Like some of the previous posters, I think Bob and company should check out some of the TOS novelisations for inspiration.
Just walked out of my third screening thinking about this.
I’d suggest a teaser, James Bond/Indiana Jones/U.S.S. Kelvin style, that revisits/re-imagines an encounter from an original episode (Gorn Fight! Gorn Fight!) (or, perhaps the Enterpirse ropping off a certain Superhuman on Ceti Alpha…) and shows us the crew working together. With that out of the way, shoot the film off in directions as inspired as the first one.
I am not saying I want Khan but to say no actor can do Khan like Mantalbon, is like saying no actor can do the Joker like Nickolson, and we all saw how that turned out. everyone myself included said Heath Ledger as Joker that is going to be a train wreak.
Plus if you did it with Khan the first 15 minutes could be him fleeing earth or better yet it could set up a prequel of a Khan movie ala Scorpion King (sans the Rock or maybe not) .
Never the less I will go regardless and I am sure it will be a great movie with the team they have in place
I’m for something new.
I’d like to see a story where the isn’t in dire peril, where the crew just goes to a planet, explores it, and learns about themselves.
That’s one complaint I have about most of the ST movies – the universe is always about to unravel unless the crew of the big E saves it.
How about a blue colar approach? What’s daily life like on the Enterprise?
I have been able to convert several of my friends and relatives to trek through the new movie (well, I just had to convince them to see it and the movie did the rest), some of whom used to make fun of me for digging trek (and who now own TOS on DVD). Based on my limited experience (and according to my amateur analysis), there seem to be several major elements behind this, for what it’s worth:
1. Family themes and father figure type stuff. The George and Winona sequence (and the uber cool birth/death motif); Kirk’s nasty step father; Kirk the troubled punk; Pike as father figure etc. Secondarily: Spock’s ordeal; McCoy’s divorce; Spock Prime; even Robau since he is a bad ass unlike the non-Kirk captains in the previous original crew films; and of course the core Enterprise crew as a family (even including the quarrelsome aspects), with Kirk/McCoy’s friendship being one of the cooler aspects of the 2009 film imo (they seem like brothers). For whatever reason I believe that father figures and related themes resonate with a great many people.
2. Ennobling displays of heroics. George Kirk taking the plunge for crew and family; Kirk leaping before he looked on behalf of Sulu (on the drill platform); Spock beaming down to save his family; Kirk and Enterprise crew going after Nero despite impossible odds; Kirk and Spock infiltrating the Narada, rescuing Pike, et cetera; the description of Starfleet as humanitarian in nature.
3. Cool action stuff. Sulu kicking butt; Kirk’s bar fight; truly awesome space battles; combat on the Narada; neat monsters on Delta Vega; the momentum inherent to the film’s style (I don’t know the correct lingo but I’m sure you know what I mean).
My personal list (as an extreme trekkie) would differ, but this represents some of the reasons why I believe many of my non-trekkie, or even anti-trekkie, friends have jumped the fence as a result of the new film. Obviously it was simply a fantastic movie, but I found some of their comments to be interesting and perhaps revealing.
I know for me it was exciting to see a sibling who has made fun of me all my life wanting to borrow the prequel comics. lol.
Would love to see a Khan origin story of some sort. Maybe Khan’s initial encounter with Kirk happens much sooner than it should in this new universe, and Spock Prime, who is obviously alive and well in this universe, picks up on how improper that is and reluctantly decides to interfere and warn Kirk and crew… I’d also love to see Guinan in the next picture! She’s alive and well in the 23rd century!
As for the current film, I’m proud to say that i’m an old school Trekkie and have seen this film 10 times! It’s a REMARKABLE achievement!
#321
Agreed that they feature action, but my point was that the new movie isn’t ‘about’ action, either.
Please go where no one has gone before.
No Shatner. No Nimoy. No Khan. No time travel.
Klingons. Prime Directive. Watch “Errand of Mercy” and “A Private Little War,” and you’ll see what I have in mind.
#330
If you’re going to go that far why not have Spock Prime on the ship and orchestrate that THIS time Spock Prime dies again (once and for all) by sacrificing himself while killing Khan to save the galaxy?
The old fan base would pee their pants!
Some more tidbits from my little perspective:
1. In “The Immunity Syndrome” Spock has a clearly traumatic emotional moment of a telepathic nature when a Vulcan ship is destroyed. You would think that the complete destruction of Vulcan, billions of Vulcan people, Mount Seleya, etc. would have some major and lasting effect on all Vulcans apart from mourning and such. Vulcans (including Spock) ought to be very different from the Vulcans we knew in the prior timeline. I don’t imagine they would become all emotional, or some kind of emo Vulcans, but maybe they would become even more extreme in their logic and traditions because of the fear of being annihilated as a culture and the extreme temptations towards despair that all living Vulcans would no doubt be facing.
2. Sarek was super understanding and cool to Spock in the movie, even before the death of Amanda and Vulcan. I liked the traditional issue of Spock being alienated from his father even till his death. Perhaps Spock’s choice to remain in Starfleet after the destruction of Vulcan could generate some flack for him and this type of tension could be introduced anew.
3. I think the destruction of Vulcan could be instrumental in bringing about some very different dynamics between the Federation and the Romulan Empire. Given their shared origins and cultural similarities I doubt even the Romulans could fail to empathize with the Vulcans’ situation. Maybe in this alternate reality the Romulans would become more amiable and Federation-friendly rather than being the paranoid and scheming isolationists of the prime timeline. Perhaps they would even feel some responsibility for the tragedy considering that Nero was a future Romulan. The living Vulcans would form a relationship with their contemporary Romulans and maybe the Romulans would even become protective of the Vulcans in some way. Just a random thought.
Cheers
I’m just gonna throw this out there: Perhaps Sybok can make an appearance?
It’s amazing to me so many people want to see new stories….yet
We still have NCC-1701 USS Enterprise
Capt. Kirk
Capt. Pike
Spock
Dr. McCoy
Scotty
Uhura
Chekov
Sulu
Hmmm…interesting in that this new alternate universe still has all the main players, but somehow all the minor characters (Chapel, Rand, Lt. Riley, Dr M’Benga) and villains (Mudd, Kahn, Kor, Koloth, Squire of Gothos, Apollo, Flint, The Gorn, The Doomsday Machine, etc) have all disappeared. That is not at all logical, or believable.
#336 “I’m just gonna throw this out”
Your instincts are bang on………..throw that idea OUT!
my Idea for a prequel
a race of genetically altered super humans Rule the mid to late 1990’s only to be summoned to Congress to answer for there crimes against humanity.
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Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Mark McGwire
“I don’t want to talk about the past……”
BIG MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Has anyone seen Big Mac lately. I think he fled on a space ship.
Here’s my suggestions (in no particular order) for the next movie:
1) Do something original.
2) No more TOS guest cast.
3) NO MORE FRAKING TIME TRAVEL.
4) No more Earth in peril and only the “E” can save it stories.
5) No long story arcs spreading out over multiple movies.
6) No more main character resurrections from the ‘dead’.
LL&P
340 – they did that already it was called Star Trek: Insurrection
Cripes, something totally new please (maybe a few passing nods to interactions, like WNMHG chess game, from TOS). Also, send Chekov back to the academy for the next 4 movies, and bring in Gary Mitchell or Jose Tyler.
So I take it that Checkov is the “NEW” Wesley Crusher…lol.
I think we need to see more of the backstory fleshed out that has always been alluded to, but never shown. Such as Gary Mitchell, Carol Marcus, Finnegan, etc. We could certainly have some sort of original story carved out that includes some of those characters!
#290 “I know that that is a sensitive subject for Trek fans, but isn’t Star Trek supposed to be a little controversial?”
Nope. That is fan induced mumo jumbo that the 24th century stuff took way too seriously. It just needs to be exciting and fun…just witness JJ’s movie.
The elusive TOS formula for fun has FINALLY been decoded.
Just more of the same please.
I think it’s safe we call this a landslide:
The fans have spoken, and they want an ORIGINAL plot this time.
# 333. ety3
“Klingons. Prime Directive. Watch “Errand of Mercy” and “A Private Little War,” and you’ll see what I have in mind.”
Two of my all-time FAVORITE TOS episodes!! RIGHT ON
32 – I agree that the characters are more important for the sequel; a development of the various relationships amongst all the characters would be enjoyable. I was impressed with all of the crew and I would be interested in Admiral Pike returning only as a mentor role for Jim. I really loved Sulu’s fight sequence. He was awesome.
I also want to see a socially relevant script. TOS was so good at that. I loved the action sequences but they don’t have to be quite as much in the sequel (although I was thrilled with every one of them in this movie).
I loved the musical score. It added so much to the story. I bought the CD and it is amazing.
And I also agree that although William Shatner is amazing, I don’t want him to be in the next movie. And as a woman, I would really like to make sure Chris Pine’s hair is blonde and short in the next film. Sorry I keep repeating this but on him red hair doesn’t do it.
JJ Abrams and the screenwriters MUST return. Let’s keep the same style, substance and visuals of the current film for the sequel. Everything about this movie was perfect, we just need a different story to keep us happy.
Mr. Orci,
I don’t know why this is an issue, in the next film all you have to do is:
Explore strange new worlds, and seek out new life and new civilizations…
The decision was made a long time ago.
Oh and more Nurse Chapel.
And while i would love to see a Tholian web tribute, I’ve noticed Enterprise, the show, already had some CGI Tholians…so never mind i guess.
A story like “taste of Armageddon” would be nice.
I think some kind of conflict with the Prime Directive would be good.
346 – If we listened to the fans myself included “Star Trek 2009″ would have never been made.
I’d like to see a new story which follows organically from ST-2009.
The last movie has introduced huge changes for the characters and the Universe, it begs to be explored further.
To forget everything that happened and go merrily on the brand new adventure would be a letdown. I’d love to see a real trilogy connected by the common threads.
What I’d like to see i the sequel:
- Vulcans picking up pieces, finding their place in the world. Spock Prime, Spock, Enterprise crew dealing with it. Maybe new cool Vulcan characters.
- Spock Prime continuing his tragically failed quest to reach out to Romulans. After all, Romulus still needs to be saved from the future supernova.
I can see Spock Prime trying to redeem himself at least in this timeline, trying to overcome Romulan hostility and Federation mistrust to make it happen.
I can see young Spock trying to redeem himself in the similar vein, after giving in to his “dark side” in the end of the movie. He killed and refused mercy – this is huge for Spock as we know him, and there should be a pay-off for him.
- The above conflicts should provide a good vehicle for character exploration. More K/S/B friendship! And what’s gonna happen with Spock/Uhura? I’d like to see it resolved and fizzled out somehow and friendship being emphasised more than romance.
Please no K/S/U triangle, at least not for long!
- Kirk coming to his own, maturing, making tough choices. His relations with Pike and Spock Prime as father figures.
- Err… Pon farr for the lady movie-goers? ;)
I’ve mentioned my idea in an earlier discussion, but I’ll propose it again here.
While Starfleet is exploring uncharted space in search of suitable Vulcan colony location, a starship discovers a rich source of protomatter. Protomatter could potentially supply all of the Federation’s energy needs for centuries, but needs further study. The Enterprise is assigned to return to the Protomatter Planet with an up-and-coming scientist, Carol Marcus onboard for the mission. In the meantime, the Klingons have learned of the discovery of protomatter and have sent their best ship, under the command of Kor to stop the Enterprise and sieze the Protomatter Planet for the Empire.
I just want to see the new Kirk, Spock, and McCoy beam down to a planet together.
#352
Damn. Not too shabby, mister!
317- You are SPOT ON!!!
We want the exact same movie.
#337
Chapel was in ST09, actually. And just because we didn’t specifically see Rand or Riley doesn’t mean they aren’t there or won’t be in the future.
The original Star Trek was science fiction made accessible to TV viewers at the time.
So, instead of rehashing old TV episodes for stories, why not dig the SOURCE of those TV episodes, the science fiction books from the time period.
Give us Harlan Ellison and Isaac Asimov, give us something larger than life, pulp, fun and intelligent.
Star Trek minutia is the cherry of the cake, can´t be the whole substance of it.
# 323 Dom
enjoy your drink (I hope it’s not green)! :)
You made some very good points and I have to admit, that you thought deeper on this matter than the writers or producers from TNG ever did I guess.
I also can’t see the repression or the dictatorship of the federation in any episode. As far as I can see, inviduals have every rights and freedom. The members of the federation can life their cultures free, even the one with some weird or brutal manners (killing old men more than 60 years old for example; but I have to ask HOW they ever could have joined the federation?). So much freedom wouldn’t be possible in any form of facismn or communismn, where everything and everyone has to be uniformend and enforced. But Star Trek is not the portayal of the Federation but of Starfleet and Starfleet is an military science and exploring organization. Of course there have to be a certain point of conformity (even in the 23rd century exits regulations how you have to style your hair!).
But if you want to draw a picture of the 24th century you can’t count TNG alone, you also have to include everything shown in DSN and VOY as well (as you have to count the six original movies to the TOS-background).
“When did we ever here about a human pressure or interest group? When did any equivalent-of rock musicians cause a scandal that made the news in the fleet? Did any Enterprise-D crewmembers ever have a p***ed up party playing heavy metal and have band practice between shifts? When did anyone watch a TV show or a news item? Did anyone watch pornos or have girlie posters in their lockers or quarters? When did we see a crewmember with a Playboy lying around on his desk? When did someone put up a poster on the noticeboard with a funny caption on? Did anyone vote in an election for the Federation president? The impression you get in the 24th Century is that there is no true civilian government, merely a bunch of corrupt admirals.”
I’ve never seen that in TOS either – except the crew go crazy like in “Amok Time”. We never saw much of the private life of Kirk, Spock or McCoy in TOS or the movies. So I would say the life in all three centuries of Star Trek (22nd, 23rd and 24th) are equally boring. DSN showed more of the private life, the thoughts and the behaviour of the crew than any other Star Trek show. Humans in the 24th century are not as flawless as portrayed in TNG – and yes, it has some bad or mad Admirals – like in 23rd century, where every other Captain besides Kirk is either obsessed, incompetend or mad (Ronald Tracy, Matt Decker, Garth of Izar, Styles, Esteban?).
That the federation has indeed a council (with many Admirals in it!) and a president, we only know since TVH. In critical situations (crisis or wars) two ambassadors (one of them from a sworn enemy) and many, many Admirals are the president’s advisers, no secretary of defense, no secretary of the state, nor security adviser. I’m not sure, but one could see the 23rd century federation easily as a military dictatorship with a puppet president in lead. At last, Jaresh I’noyio (hop I spell it right), federation’s president during DSN mentioned he was elected – we never heard anything equal in TOS or the TOS-movies.
The handling of the Prime Directive is another issue. In TOS it was roughly mentioned and Kirk’s mission was in most cases to repair damages in sense of the PD some crazy Captains, Klingons or Comissioners had done. We don’t know how the federation treat the Prime Directive and how many alien tribes they left dying, because their homeworlds are exploding. But such cases were never seen or mentioned and so I won’t go further in that matter.
In TNG the Prime Directive was still the “highest of all laws” of the federation. I have to admit that it speak against every form of humanity to let people die because a planet is exploding. That is clearly a aspect that can’t be seen positive – even you twist it or argue against it. In this case, I fully have to agree with you: The federation is brutal and inhuman in this case and Picard acted inflexible and stubborn in that matter – following the laws he must – as do every Captain in every Navy, even if it’s ment to destroy the entire world (submarines with nuclear missiles for example. When the president gives the order, the Skippers would execute it). In fact in DSN or VOY the Prime Directive is not handled so inhumane as in TNG and one could assume that the federation council woke up from that nightmare and changend the “highest law” and allowed more flexibility (otherwise Janeway would have been impriosend for the rest of her life after Voyager’s return). But that Prime Directive-issue leaves a very bad taste of the 24th century would-be-paradise.
Suggestion no. 4443 for Bob and Alex:
Don’t make a Prime Directive movie!
I wish for a new story – “to explore strange new worlds; to seek out new life and new civilizations; to boldly go where no one has gone before” i.e. exploration, mystery, and a sense of wonder about the universe. That is, after all, what the premise of Star Trek is all about. Certainly there could/should be back references. Also, as others have stated, develop the relationships among the characters. You don’t need a villan or space battles to produce drama – some of the best TNG episodes didn’t have them.
Maybe we could catch a glimpse of Leila Kalomi from the “This Side of Paradise” episode. She was the botanist who apparently knew Spock from six years earlier and had fallen in love with him. Her character Leila was played by the lovely Jill Ireland.
I wouldn’t want to see a plot developed around her, but she would make a nice “pop-up” cameo.
#357 YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since there has been so many ideas, might as well as one I had while reading the book of ideas.
How about the Obnipitant Beings Wars. The Q and the Omicron Beings have a God like war, The Q get trapped into another Dimension but just before getting trapped they change the Universe into the 60’s Trek style Universe. Then the movie is Kirk trying to bring back his Slightly alternate Universe. In the process of bringing back his Universe the two GOD like entities come to peace so does the Time Space Continuum, but each side has a Section 31 like team and these forgotten divisions. Become known as the Devil.
So in turn Kirk creates the Devil that can go anywhere in time and mess up things.
There is much more to be thought out on the idea, it was just a idea flash in my brain as I was reading the many ideas presented.
The new Star Trek had a Generations feel to it. Passing the torch from one generation to the next. The main antagonist hell-bent on revenge on a group of people (example: the Duras Sisters wanting to recounquer the Klingon Empire and take their revenge out on Gowron.).
The Narada was honestly a bad concept for a ship. First Contact, Insurrection, and Nemesis all had larger ships than the Enterprise [the Borg have always had larger ships and Romulan D'deridex-class Warbirds have been too.] Its like ALL the bad guys have larger ships these days and that is all they really have going for them.
The last of the greatest concepts for a villan was General Chang from Star Trek VI. He had nothing against any of the characters, just an uncertain future. The first being Kahn.
There hasn’t been a lot done with either conspiracy or pirates in Star Trek. There was the Cartwright Conspiracy in Star Trek VI. The Next Generation Episode Conspiracy delt with an alien infiltration of Starfleet. Not really much else. As far as pirates go, Enterprise delt with Orion Pirates and the Cartel numorous times.
What about Q? With the development of this new timeline, the first encounter may occur at a different time. How would Kirk deal with Q?
What about the Mirror Universe? With this new movie, the Mirror Universe could really be explored in a new way.
To quote Spock, “There are always possibilities.”
293. Boborci – June 17, 2009
Thanks all!
Hey you are very welcome. But please lets see Kirk and Spock play a little Chess.
Common Bob, explore! No villians for a change! STIV made cash so if you do it right it can be even more popular then a villian movie! And besides we just had Nero!
Save Khan for 3 :)
My random thoughts – many reflect others mentioned.
New story with old twists and Easter eggs. Alternate timeline still has all the old characters just in altered situations.
Carol Marcus.
Where is Gary Mitchell??? Kirk and Mitchell were long time best friends and most fans think the “blonde lab tech” he refers to is Carol Marcus. If she comes back – he MUST come back – no glowing eyes yet. Perhaps that incident should just be a prime timeline event???
No Kahn, save the Earth etc. Explore the strange new worlds and get out of com range of home base from time to time.
NO MORE TIMETRAVEL – It’s been played out.
Please leave Harry Mudd in the prime timeline.
An intersection with the Mirror universe is a strong possibility – it too may have changed. For that matter how about an intersection with the prime timeline.
Please drop the Star Wars style of Warp/Hyperspace convention where you don’t know what is happening at your destination until you drop out of Warp. This is my biggest beef with the otherwise fantastic new setup.
Nurse Chapel needs to be introduced. Mark her relationship with Dr. McCoy more dramatic with conflicts – she is after all destined (or was) to become a doctor herself. Make her very smart and sure of herself. Keep the sexual tension with Spock.
I love Enterprise – a tie-in would be nice. I especially liked the Andorians.
Might be too late for now but The Cage would have expanded out to a really good feature. Those Telosians should popup somewhere.
Was Trelane a Q????
Doen’t just redo old TV episodes, but PLEASE stay true to the idea behind Star Trek. as long as you do that and don’t just make some space action movie I am on board.
#317 – AND – #355
Make that three of us. I must have missed that post earlier (#317) …… very, very well said and thank you.
Just brainstorming here..
01.) Investigate whereabouts and actions of [mysterious antagonist], only to find something bigger at work.
02.) Rumors about the Klingons looking for advanced technology are spreading like wildfire in the Federation. The Federation sends the Enterprise along with another ship to investigate. Then something happens and point 01 takes precedence. The other ship gets destroyed and the movie ends with the [mysterious antagonist] being killed.
Then the following movie [Star Trek Something Something Something] can have the Enterprise (still damaged from [mysterious antagonist]’s attacks from the previous movie) looking for the technology the Klingons were after. But thanks to [mysterious antagonist], the Enterprise arrives too late.
Trilogy, perhaps?
Seriously – - – the more I think about it, the more I agree with this statement regarding a sequel:
From post #317
“Slow the film down a little. TOS didn’t just have witty dialogue; it had great exchanges of dialogue, sometimes lengthy. I think the audience can handle it, even if they’re not used to it. The audience can also handle a little visual splendor… These characters are looking on unworldly places for the first time with human eyes… Let them and us appreciate it a little.”
Also, don’t be afraid to look at fledgling franchises like “Mass Effect” for inspiration. :P
# 337 “That is not at all logical, or believable.”
Well that’s about par for the movie though.. ZING!
Seriously though.. once you go down the dark path of trying to rationalize events/characters in this *new* Trek universe you’re going to get called out for including certain things and not others. It’s best if they just stayed away from all that mess.
It’s a big universe out there with many NEW things to explore.
The more I think about it, the more I want the film to be an original story. I don’t know if I just want to see a re-telling of things that have come before.
Star Trek is better than that. There’s plenty of room to explore new things, which was one of the reasons for creating an alternate timeline to begin with.
I say, new situations + familiar characters = a winnner.
How about throwing a torpedo (or 5) at engineering for the blu-ray?
Ergo, new engineering section in sequel :-)
Like the chess statement earlier, sounds dull, but always good for strategy and out-thinking the “enemy”, whoever that may be…
Definately MORE McCoy with Kirk. This was totally under done in this movie but they had great chemistry.
In my opinion it has to be a new original story, but with splashes and nuances of some of the familiar elements we know. I hope JJ directs as well. I think this is the magical team that will continue to do right by Trek.
After many viewings of the film I think it was truly perfectly done, even if it wasn’t perfect, if that makes sense…
Well, they should definitely make Kirk an even bigger jerk than he was in the last film. Same goes for Uhura too. She wasn’t mean enough in the last film either.
gary mitchell isnt due to be on the enterprise for 5 years at least, but probably wont be assigned to the enterprise anyways, and mitchell probably was killed by nero at the attack over vulcan. would be nice to see sarek and spock prime having a beer as a deleted scene.
T’pring and stonn are gone with vulcan, so no one will have stonn. (or however its spelled) please no tribbles.
Kor and/or kang would be cool!
carol marcus would be nice.
and i agree about chekov’s age…for example in the episode”who mourns for adonis” chekov state’s he is 22 years old.
“Q” would be an interesting twist but “Q” belongs with the TNG era shows.
I vote for an original story that provides for more character development. while they encounter new unknown danger and action during their initial missions. There’s a great opportunity to show Spock still struggling for control of his emotions in the early years of his dealings with Kirk and McCoy. Likewise, the development of Scotty in to a brillant engineer and Kirk in to his Captaincy.
Let’s see unpredictable encounters with new species (and/or maybe some only hinted at in TOS) and cultures. A mission to survey new systems for Vulcan resettlement, or new resources to rebuild Starfleet. Maybe some info on what happened during the 25 years Nero was here could be slipped in or referred to to further connect the two movies. Maybe through some interchange with the Klingons over the course of the sequel.
I realize coming up with an original idea that hasn’t been recycled from one of the previous shows or movies, or other classic movies or books is tough. But that’s what we need IMHO.
Uhura and Spock grinding on the transporter pad clearly “echoes” and was “inspired by” the canon established in The Man Trap in which Uhura was mortified by Spock’s emotionless response to his closest-thing-to-a-friend’s possible death leading her to proclaim her lack of surprise that Vulcan was without a moon. Good work Orci.
Wow, I really don’t envy these guys, but maybe, in some ways I do. They have a great challenge in front of them. I have every confidence in them after seeing the new film several times. And after I read the article I was more impressed. They admit (minor) mistakes were made, and realize what needs to be done.
The old Star Trek is dead. Long live the new Star Trek. Let’s face it, we are in our own alternate reality. Star Trek films are no longer fanfests, produced for $30 -40M and grossing $80 – 100M. Thanks to this rebirth as a summer blockbuster tentpole franchise, the dynamics have changed (for better or worse). No longer is it good enough to thrill the Trek fans (which for the most part this film has done). You now have to make new Trek fans (which this film has done). Then, you need to appeal to even more new fans, even Trek haters, to put their butts in the seats (which the next film needs to do).
So they need to keep the old time base happy, keep the new base happy, and entice another new base! So expect lots of action, explosions, SFX, and romance. And hopefully we’ll see real (not forced) drama and character growth/development, and maybe a message or two. Quite a tall order and a fine line to walk. But as I said, this film impressed me. I saw all of the above in this 2 hour summer movie. I think the sequel is in very good hands.
Shatner should be the villain! Old Mirror Universe Kirk should return with a vengeance. Cute young Kirk vs. crazy, angry old Kirk. Shatner could be like Brando in The Godfather. Just a thought!
Wirh a whole new (young) cast of TOS characters, they can tell dozens of stories based on facts (for want of a better word) from the TOS TV series or just fill in the blanks of what could have happened before or after a particular episode. Not so much as re-tell the same episode but to add to it by a back story, even continue from a episode.
You got Klingons, Organians, Gorns, Beta Ioians, Talosians, Romulans, etc. I think they will have enough to work from of they want to to so.
In the sequel, show how the new Enterprise blows up when Scotty’s space monkey presses the “Do not press” self destruct button.
Due to this horrible accident, the Federation will have to activate the prototype TMP Enterprise ahead of schedule.
325
loved every word ;)
324
loved every word ;)
sorry 325
#380 – I agree.
I feel the whole Spock/Uhura relationship was dead on, realistic, well written and well done. I don’t understand the naysayers. To say the Spock in the OS would never act like that is illogical ;-) I always thought Spock’s human half was underplayed in the OS, to make him more “alien” I guess. It always seemed 75/25 to me, leaning toward the Vulcan side.
Let’s see: Your home planet is destroyed before your eyes. Your beloved mother dies before your eyes. Gee maybe that might just push you a little over the edge? Maybe toward your human/emotional side? Your full-blooded Vulcan father admits he actually “loved” your human mother (in other words it’s ok for a Vulcan to feel “love”)
As I said, IMO, very well written and performed. And very believable.
from #15 : I guess destroying Vulcan for no good reason doesn’t count…
and the reply by Bob Orci, #60 : There was good reason.
I think Mr. Orci’s reply reflects not only the above Spock/Urhura relationship, but possible future storylines. Just MY opinion of course, I would never presume to speak for Mr. Orci.
1) I thought the new movie was great.
2) I would also like to see a new story.
3) I agree it would be more interesting if the next villain wasn’t trying to destroy / enslave the Earth.
I can only hope the Bob Orci is still reading some of the many constuctive comments here. First let me breathe a HUGE sigh of relief for the good majority of the fans that want to see something new and original. For a short time after the new movie came out, there were lots of giddy fans calling for Khan and/or Mudd. I agree that we should NOT be rehashing Star Trek’s “greatest hits” and it is so critical to have an original story.
May I recommend humbling yourselves a bit and talking to some credible science fiction authors for some inspirtation? I always enjoyed Trek episodes that left me thinking or had the inspirational Twilight Zone conclusion. It’s not easy to write an episode like this, granted. It will be even more difficult to do so for a motion picture. But a few examples come to mind.
In the first season of TNG, one of the very rare examples of an episode that couldn’t have been shown on network TV was “Conspiracy.” The whole idea of being taken over by those slugs and a Federation-wide problem was well done, if not a tad gory (though I’m one of the few who liked it). I got chills at the end when Data says they sent a homing beacon. This episode had conspiracy, violence, action, double-cross, paranoia, and a whole bunch of cinematic elements.
Other clever shows with science fiction and creativ themes include the show where the crew was “out of phase,” the show where some of the population of a planet were evolving faster than the rest of the population and becoming new lifeforms, some original series episodes about diseases or catastrophes such as “Deadly Years” and “Miri.” I guess try to think outside the box.
Obviously any motion picture needs to be so much bigger than TV, and you succeeded enormously with the latest movie. I agree with 98% of respondents who don’t want: Earth in peril, time travel, Romulan threats, or Borg. As for what I would like to see, (aside from the major storyline for which I have no clue!) are a few nuggets from TOS such as Chapel and/or Rand, Scotty becoming more serious and not just comic folly, the Enterprise off far from Earth somewhere and surviving using their wits, McCoy’s medical beds with the fluctuating scanners, Chekov with straight hair, Lt. Kyle, a good ‘ole knock-down, drag-out fist fight between Kirk and someone, some minor characters or red-shirts getting killed in the line of duty, and most of all: BETTER MUSIC!
Thanks for listening!
A totally new story, but maybe Gary Mitchell, Kelso and a few familiar faces would be nice. A familiar but little used race like the Tholians or Kzinti might be nice also. No Klingons, Khan, Harry Mudd, Tribbles, Organians, etc.
If there HAS to be a retelling of a story, let’s see an epic struggle with the Doomsday machine…but of course, with more detail than the original, ie: more background on the machine, some exploration of the Decker character, and the antiwar message intact.
Part of the problem here is a lot of you keep referencing TV episodes. We’re talking about a movie, not a television show. Better to save the slower paced fare for a television series. Film is a different animal and you don’t want to lose all those new Trek converts by slowing to a halt and getting too talky. Doesn’t mean you can’t tell an intelligent or thoughtful story, of course, but some of those deeper explorations will likely have to wait till there’s a regular series on.
More thoughts.
In addition to the TOS-referencing James Bond-esque opening stinger, I, too, would like to see a “where no man has gone before” story. They did that more often on TOS than most of the TNG-era shows (percentage-wise), but all the shows other than VOY and, to an extent, ENT, tended to stay “in the neighborhood” more often than not. Let’s see a story that actually lives up to the classic opening narration.
Strange new worlds.
How often have we actually seen those?
Very rarely.
If Klingons are used, I would like a return to the TOS-era attitude of the Klingons. In TOS, the Romulans were the noble, honorable warriors — staying, for the most part, behind the Neutral Zone, honoring the treaty — the Romulan commander in “Balance of Terror” was very uneasy about the stealth mission he was on.
But the Klingons? Ah, they were the sneaky, opportunistic, imperialistic conquerer race, greedy, underhanded, seditious and malicious. Kor in “Errand of Mercy” only bore passing similarity to Kor of “Blood Oath” or “Sword of Kahless”.
At some point between STAR TREK III and “Neutral Zone”, the Klingons and Romulans switched personalities. I’d like them to switch back, please.
Finally, remember that James T. Kirk was not a lady chaser — they chased him more often than he chased them — and he didn’t violate the Prime Directive so much as he used the Prime Directive as a reason to take action (unlike Picard, who used it as a reason *not* to).
Thanks for listening, Mr. Orci. Keep up the good work.
What # 143 said above.Also, someone else mentioned “epicness”of the story(it IS the big screen,with a big budget; it MUST BE a big,grand,epic story,with many starships,many planets, & a cast of thousands-CGI of course).
Give us Pike/Kirk/Spock/Bones(Wisdom/Action/Head/Heart).
One of the main themes should be based on something Pike said:the Federation,it’s important,a peacekeeping/humanitarian armada.That should echo in the background,thruout the movie.
If it is to be an exploration movie, then it should be a stand-alone, epic story,on an “Indiana Jones” scale of production(perhaps a “Master & Commander”-type of exploration/war movie,where the Federation decides to protect a fascinating, newly-discovered planet,from some new antagonist who wishes to expand its empire, & claim the planet as its new colony?)
What story do YOU GUYS want to tell?You did great with ST09.Follow your intuition.
Nearly forgot.
Remember that the best of Star Trek always has something to say about the human condition and the problems we face today. Morality plays for the 21st century. Not heavy handed — but something that is smart and makes us think while at the same time entertains us. On one level, WOK is a rousing space adventure and revenge tale. On a deeper level, it’s about friendship and loss. On an even deeper level, it’s about confronting one’s own mortality.
Give us something multi-layered. Have something to say.
Thank you.
#388 – Interesting choice of TNG episodes.
I certainly agree with the more “strange new worlds” sentiments and I also agree with the idea of some highly thought provoking elements. When you were mentioning TNG episodes I recalled “The Measure of a Man” which made a pretty big impression on me when it first aired (I was around 10 years old too so I think such things may have a more universal appeal than it often admitted).
And it wasn’t even the fact that this episode contained philosophical and ethical reflection, it was that to some extent, but what made it brilliant as a story was the way it was framed within the interpersonal relationships of the characters (mostly Picard but also Riker and Data). It was a great piece of entertainment and I believe a good example of the philosophical side of Trek.
TOS was an alagory to what was happening in the world at the time. There is plenty of events happening now the writers could use. What about a world that is about to have elections for a new ruler. The federation backs that ruler, while the Enterprise crew discovers the truth and works to stop it from happening?
Please do a new story. I really don’t want to see my beloved TOS remade and rehashed. If that is done, it will just serve to further muddy the Trek waters. No Khan. NO Carol Marcus (to me that whole plot line was waaaaay more than contrived and ridiculous the first time around).
Orci and Kurtzman established a new kind of “reality” for Trek in the new movie so they should stay there and use it. Just like this time, I think it would be best to “echo” the past, without reliving the characters or plots we have seen before.
YES, YES, YES, YES, YES!!YES, YES, YES, YES, YES!!!!!!!
347. JL – June 17, 2009
# 333. ety3
“Klingons. Prime Directive. Watch “Errand of Mercy” and “A Private Little War,” and you’ll see what I have in mind.”
Two of my all-time FAVORITE TOS episodes!! RIGHT ON
—————————–
NOW!
talk to orci about placing an old episode in the film and have it wrapped around a totally new story, and it will be much different because of the alt time line. have that tos episode complicate the main story. = NUTS! INSANE! AND BEAUTIFUL!
Gee…all of these ideas on how the next movie should be.
Too bad that none of you are writing it.
Lots of fun ideas! It’s so nice to see Star Trek alive again!!!
Write 2-3 scripts(Khan, Remake of TOS idea/story, New Story)
Decide which one you want to do first, save the rest for Star Trek 3 and 4.
Or combine it all and make a 3HR film.
I hope they do not feature the Klingons in the next movie, that was all we ever got from the original series of films. Let’s see some Andorians or Cardassians… yes I noticed Uhura ordering a Cardassian drink at the bar. If they want to move away from the humanoid aliens, how about they feature the Tholians in the next film… I’d love to see them in a feature film. They are truly cool looking and that is what this next movie needs. they possess powerful weaponry which is hard to understand… web spinners?!
For what it’s worth, some of the touches I got a real kick out of were the little touches that implied that certain things will always happen to certain characters, no matter what timeline you’re in: Example: Pike still ends up in a wheelchair.
I think that really worked, and I’d be inclined to hang that aspect on an original story (that may be thematically similar to an old episode, but isn’t a re-run, though that’s less important.)
That way fans will always be trying to guess, which elements are constant for the characters, and which elements change. Example, is the Kirk Spock fight from Amok Time always supposed to happen? No one really remembers the episode outside of fandom, but casual viewers do tend to remember iconic moments.
#399 – I kind of wonder if you’re serious, hehe. I’m believe that Orci and Kurtzman will surprise us with a story better than anything yet presented here. If the movie were written by random fans it might be something like this:
The crew is forced by an alien race to go back in time to 2009 in order to stop global warming. Kirk has to teach Spock how to use profanity and the new iPhone (which will have more Beastie Boys tracks on it). There will be a comic relief scene featuring Kirk and Spock in the Apple Store cracking jokes about the bridge of the Enterprise. There will also be a scene with the crew drinking Slusho in front of a Cloverfield poster.
Spock Prime will have gone with (gotta have the Nimoy cameo) and tells them to bring back a couple of humpback whales. When asked to explain why there will be one of those, you’ll see, *wink, wink* moments. I think the movie would be good with a laugh track too; a bit of movie making experimentation if you will.
John Cho (Sulu) can revert into his Harold & Kumar character and Jack Black will replace Chris Pine as Captain Kirk (there will be a prequel comic to explain Kirk’s new characteristics).
Kirk ends up in a relationship with a woman of this era and there will be a pivotal scene in which Spock and McCoy insist that Kirk stay away from her so as not to pollute the timeline which culminates in Kirk delivering the line, “don’t tell me what I can’t do!”
Geez, I think it’s reasonably obvious the next movie could answer one of my most pondered questions in Trek lexicon;
What prompted Starfleet to assign their new flagship Enterprise to a 5-year mission of deep-space exploration?
Something about her crew qualified them above all others to cope with first contact scenarios. Likely a unique encounter unlike any other. Something so challenging and dangerous that it’s successful completion convinced Starfleet to send our heroes deep into uncharted space for 5 long years.
Tell that tale, and you will have a winning sophomore film.
Fire Orci and Kurtzman. Hire science fiction screenwriters, not staff writers.
#406:
Orci, in particular, has been extremely generous with his time here with us and seems like a geniunely nice, quick-witted guy that really cares about Star Trek and the quality of his work. It is for those and similar reasons that I’ve never said what you just said, even though it screams out from behind my eyes demanding voice.
Er. I mean. Shame on you!
#406-No way…no door openings at all for B&B again. Keep these guys!!!!!
The first thing I would look to do is close up the plot loopholes, make the reasons for everything that happens very tightly explained and justified. My brother-in-law is no Trekker, and he pointed out some really glaring holes in the plot that Trekkers were willing to overlook but would have been inane in any well-writtenfree-standing movie.
As just one example, toward the end of the movie, Kirk and Spock go it alone to the Narada. Maybe that works with a TV series where they can’t afford the extras, but there was time to assemble security, why would they go alone with so much at stake? It’s a good point. No good leader would dream of doing such a thing in a parallel situation, even with Kirk and Spock’s need for righteous vengeance.
As a Trekker, I was willing to suspend my disbelief. My in-law wasn’t.
Besides, wouldn’t that have been a better situation to buzz some redshirts?
408 – “No way…no door openings at all for B&B again.”
Sir, 406 said hire SCIENCE FICTION WRITERS.
Spock’s Brain 2 Electric Boogalu
Original = No time travel! No Kahn. No Shatner…. UNLESS its for a brief comic relief nod to “The Deadly Years”. Thats all he deserves.
I just saw shat on the Tonight Show and of course, not one mention of the movie.
GORN! Bring back the Gorn!
#406:
Oh, and in these situations, where there is a long-standing working relationship, one does not “fire,” one … promotes! … to … “Executive Script Consultant.” :)
#409
That’s not really a plot hole. And given that the 2 commanding officers were relatively young/inexperienced, it’s not all that far-fetched. And that’s ignoring the fact that nearly every episode of TOS had Kirk leading the landing party. If your bro-in-law really has an issue with that, he must have a dickens of a time sitting through most any science-fiction/action/adventure film.
369 Trelane! I dont think he was too popular but I loved him! He was DEF Q before Q… he could be remade into something tough!
I vote for a completely new story devoid of any references to the Prime Star Trek Timeline. New Trek…new direction…same great feeling.
oops I meant 366 :)
Yes, new and original plot lines please.
You cant have crossovers or references to TOS as they effectively haven’t happened yet!
It needs an original story. But there could be references to some episodes, for example Kirk getting a commendation for his great efforts on Organia etc.
But the story needs to be original!
And NO KHAN!
And, bring back Shatner as old Kirk from the prime timeline – with his memory erased by some evil guy who is using resurrected Prime Kirk to kill young Kirk, and only Prime Spock can bring Prime Kirks memory back and together they battle the true villain!!! :)
You guys should be writing fanfics, so many wonderful ideas and drabbles! This thread is a compliment to the ingenuity and creativity of Trek fans everywhere.
#421: “You guys should be writing fanfics [...]”
I wouldn’t be surprised if a number of folks here already have.
I agree that Trek Utopia is delusional at best. I thought Picard was exceptional but politics is politics. Some of the most interesting Trek stuff looks at the difficulties within political alliances: the Klingon/Romulan episodes, Garak episodes in DS9, Romulan alliance against Dominion etc.
23rd century currency isn’t money, it is electronic credits and energy production. Replicators (which DID exist in TOS although only food replicators are mentioned) convert energy to matter but the energy has to be produced somehow (disintegrating other matter for conversion is one way but energy conversion is not going to be . They couldn’t build starships entirely from replicated materials so resources are a bit issue (how many times have we heard that the Enterprise is the only vessel within range?).
Voyager suffered because it largely ignored issues like this (unlike Battlestar Galactica). Less utopia and more of a flawed optimism is what we need to see.
In that regard I would very much like to see what T’Pau and T’Pring might do in the wake of the Vulcan destruction. T’Pau refused a seat on the Federation council – she was a traditionalist – there could be some interesting conflict there – hinted at by Sarek when he alleges that his marriage to Amanda was logical (you can envisage him justifying it to T’Pau in those terms).
I agree with 423. Paul – i’d like some politics in the sequel too, or at least somethign that would make me not only enjoy the FX, but also to think.
Also, as someone above already said, there should be more females besides Uhura, so maybe introducing Chapel wouldn’t be such a bad idea. Maybe in a ‘the (male) crew gets their medical exam’ scene or so ;D
I’ll keep hoping for a couple of scenes with the crew at their leasure time, off-uniforms (that is, what they do when there’s no emergency around), that could be set at the very beginning of the movie.
Oh, and some more normal lines for Scotty, as in this movie he was just a bit over the top.
Whatever the next Trek in the JJ timeline is gonna be, I’d love to see this ending: Old Kirk (played by the Shat, of course) and old Spock (Nimoy) are walking out of a holodeck and Kirk says: ‘Woa! This was the silliest simulation we ever did!’
How about at the end of the 3rd Trek movie, they have Prime Spock wake up in his quarters & hears the shower running.
He goes up, opens the door, and it is William Shatner Kirk in the shower, and Spock realizes that Kirk dying on Veridian III and Vulcan blowing up was just a bad dream!
#392
“Finally, remember that James T. Kirk was not a lady chaser — they chased him more often than he chased them.”
WHAT? There are a whole bunch of TOS episodes that clearly depict Kirk approaching and/or flirting with females. Only a few instances I can recall when a female approached him.
Obviously, the solid relationship between K & S has to deepen, along with the needed presence of Bones this time.
Then bring familiar elements into a fresh story. Obviously, it cannot be ignored that a battle is brewing between the Klingons and the Romulans, so the ‘E’ shouldn’t be hunting down hippies while the quadrant heads toward Armageddon. Perhaps, that is the backdrop for an original story.
#410-I gave you the opportunity and you took it! Thanks for letting me be your straight man and B&B being the joke! However, my point is that these new writers ARE geniuses compared to B&B.
#409-They were trying to “covertly” beam aboard and get the job done without being detected. remember, Scotty THOUGHT he was putting them in a cargo bay where there wouldn’t be a soul around. That’s no harder to figure out than Kirk & Spock being alone on the Romulan ship hunting up the cloaking deice in TOS.
#430 Don’t mention that aberration! I have no issue with beaming onto a ship at warp, and they even allude to being able to beam greater distances between planets with adequate sensors but exactly how far away would the Enterprise be after at least 40 minutes at Warp 3 (I forget how far away the Federation base was from the crash site)? How could 23rd century transporters on a shuttle beam that far when 24th century transporters have a range of about 40,000km? It’s an affront to Federation technology I tells you! And Spock’s I’ll just punch in this little formula line was lame – methinks it would take more than that to beam onto a ship that far away while still at warp.
More to the point, why wasn’t Scotty responding to the crash and distress call and leavig Kirk to his fate. Don’t they have sensor alarms?
427. Then I respectfully suggest your memory is faulty. Usually the women approached him. I blogged about it a few years back, breaking it down episode-by-episode. My conclusion was that in total, Kirk really only ever pursued five women on the entire 78-episode run, and one woman casually in one of the movies. Three died (or were destroyed), and the other two were crazy. However, we have fourteen instances of women throwing themselves at Kirk, three or four of which Kirk used to save his ship or crew. Oh, and one instance of Kirk deliberately manipulating an alien female’s emotions so he wouldn’t have to fight cavemen and andorians for the amusement of brains in a jar.
Here’s the links if you’re interested in the full blog, but be aware that the language can get a little salty:
http://uncle-twitchy.livejournal.com/16916.html
http://uncle-twitchy.livejournal.com/17312.html
http://uncle-twitchy.livejournal.com/17434.html
Oh, in the interest of fairness, I did forget that Kirk quite obviously got, uh, familiar with the space slave in “Bread and Circuses”, so add one to the other *two* onscreen instances that Kirk actually ever got lucky on the original series.
…And here’s the page of someone else who came to a similar conclusion:
http://www.thecaptainkirkpage.com/kirksex.html
Make it original and fix the timeline issue, by creating a new timeline in my mind you have partially destroyed all of the previous movies and previous TV shows which does not pay true tribute to anything that was done before even though you guys say it does. I am open to new ideas, new ship looks, but FIX THE MESS. ITS SFI
#337—”Hmmm…interesting in that this new alternate universe still has all the main players, but somehow all the minor characters (Chapel, Rand, Lt. Riley, Dr M’Benga) and villains (Mudd, Kahn, Kor, Koloth, Squire of Gothos, Apollo, Flint, The Gorn, The Doomsday Machine, etc) have all disappeared. That is not at all logical, or believable.”
For one thing, Nurse Chapel is already aboard the Enterprise. Unless Dr. McCoy is barking orders to someone else named “Nurse Chapel” in ST09, that much has already been established.
As for those you deem to be “villains” (from which I would exclude the Gorn), it is true that the altered timeline does not preclude their existence. However, that hardly means that the Enterprise is likely to encounter them. In some cases, it took a very specific set of circumstances to allow that to happen in the first place.
Moreover, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that they have all “disappeared”—-just that it isn’t necessary to tell yet another story about them, nor is it necessary to suggest that the Enterprise is the only starship capable of encountering them for the first time.
In many ways, the writers are damned if they do—and damned if they don’t, much as they were when they took on the task of reintroducing the iconic 23rd Century characters in the first place.
I will say that of all those you mentioned, the one which strikes me as most worthy of a screenplay is the “Doomsday Machine”. However, there would be a large faction of fans who would once again cry foul—-as the antagonist would yet again be a large scale threat that the Enterprise is charged with confronting.
But what I think alot of fans are discounting is the fact that the story in ST09 (for whatever reason) ends in 2258, some 8-10 years prior to the time when any of those you mention were first encountered in the Prime timeline. So unless the sequel is going to advance our primary characters in age by nearly a decade, they probably *shouldn’t* encounter those same foes. No?
# 434
“…And here’s the page of someone else who came to a similar conclusion:
http://www.thecaptainkirkpage.com/kirksex.html
Hey Uncle, I went to that page and while I did not have time to study every example, I did notice one definite mistake and one event which I believe is incorrect.
First, in By Any Other Name, Kirk DOES kiss Kelinda… to “apologize.” Second, in A Private Little War, it is heavily implied that Kirk had sex with Nona. There was a sequence where everyone woke up in the cave… McCoy was in another room… Non and Kirk had been sleeping together in the same bed, while Nona’s husband was laying alone across the room. I’d say Kirk got summa that! (Nona was really hot, one of the most beautiful TOS girls of all, IMO)
Anyway, maybe I was wrong regarding my “Kirk going after the women” estimate. Haven’t gone to your page(s) since I’m not sure they are safe for work. Are they? I’ll have to check it out further. Thanks
More Kirk-McCoy. Keep Spock-Uhura. More classic adventure with clashes of people meaning the best in moments in which there is no optimal solution.
You started a new road: Spock more emotional (less conflicted per se, but one major weakness afais); McCoy not just a sweet country doctor but someone who we could see fly shuttles and kick asses, most often Jim’s for being an ass (and still being his best friend forever); Kirk not as mature as in the old series, bound to make more – and different – errors on the way.
Pike was great too.
I’m both looking forward and being nervous for the next movie…until then, I’ll enjoy fandom being revived like never before. There’s hoping it will go boldly for another 40 years.
Oh, and I second the idea of a doomsday machine remake, because it had great conflict and adventure and no enemy with a face (I’m so tired of Klingons and Romulans). Could work very well on a big screen, with more crew moments and side plots.
I want to see new things. I’d like to see how Spock copes with the loss of Vulcan and his mom, and how his relationship with Uhura progresses. I’d like to see a ’small’- character driven film, maybe focused on how Starfleet has to rebuild its people and its ships.I liked the genuine military twist it was finally given. How about a bigger taste of that?
I want to see how the Vulcans do, as well- do they create a single colony, or scatter themselves around in a diaspora? Do they start to die off as their pon-farr cycles hit them and they have no mates? Maybe McCoy can ‘cure’ that problem- especially if Spock gets caught in his own cycle.
We can honor the old show with ‘easter eggs’ scattered like they were in the movie. But we don’t need Khan, the Borg, or rehashes of the original universe. Sure, having “Q” pop by might be fun- but maybe his powers are not quite as formidible in this universe.
I am looking forward to whatever is created. The writers have won my trust.
392. Uncle Twitchy: ‘If Klingons are used, I would like a return to the TOS-era attitude of the Klingons . . . Ah, they were the sneaky, opportunistic, imperialistic conquerer race, greedy, underhanded, seditious and malicious. Kor in “Errand of Mercy” only bore passing similarity to Kor of “Blood Oath” or “Sword of Kahless”.’
I’d argue that the Klingons were like that all the way up to TMP. For all their ridged forehead look, the Klingons seen in TMP with those cool contact lenses were ruthless, quick-witted and intelligent. Mark Lenard’s Klingon commander had a very sly, devious look about him. In TWOK, the Klingons’ ruthlessness was alluded to, not that they’re mad warriors, but that they’re the merciless.
STIII: TSFS is where the Klingons went wrong: a bonkers, rogue Klingon pirate and his gang of thugs turned up and unfortunately TNG’s writers made Kruge his gang the template for all future Klingons.
In TVH, even, John Schuck’s Klingon ambassador was no meatheaded Viking wannabe. Sadly, by the time of TUC, the numbskull Klingon idea had gone mainstream and they were badly played there too!
That said, I don’t want Klingons in the next film, unless there’s a Klingon crewmember.
440. Sunfell: ‘I want to see new things. I’d like to see how Spock copes with the loss of Vulcan and his mom, and how his relationship with Uhura progresses. I’d like to see a ’small’- character driven film . . .’
All that would be fine in a TV show, but a movie need to get down to Trek basics: action, humour, sex and sci-fi witha dash of philosophy!
440 AND 442
I think you can address all of these elements in a big film if you do not eat up too much screen time with it.
You know that at least they’ll touch further on the Spock/Urhura deal…
#441—-”STIII: TSFS is where the Klingons went wrong: a bonkers, rogue Klingon pirate and his gang of thugs turned up and unfortunately TNG’s writers made Kruge his gang the template for all future Klingons.”
Wholeheartedly agreed.
I had no issue with the notion of Kruge being a rogue acting on his own, but the TNG/DS9 writers seemingly chose to look upon TSFS as the basis for all future depictions of Klingon behavior (and adding such ridiculous elements as an addiction to ritual and the pursuit of honor, live food, heavy drinking, singing, howling, etc.).
These were “not your father’s Klingons”—-who were the likes of Kor, Kang, Kras, Koloth, and Korax…
Please lose Spock/Uhura, as it never should have occured to begin with, IMHO.
And why has an Andorian woman never been featured in an ST film? Blue skin, long white hair and antennae lazily moving back and forth… could make for a very sexy scene…
437 — hey, JL. I’m pretty irreverent in my analyses of the episodes, so you might want to wait until you get home, just to be on the safe side. Nothing as scatalogical as, say, an Ain’t It Cool News talkback thread, but not as polite as one of these threads. It’s a LiveJournal page, and my audience back then was mostly people in their 20s.
And I’d argue that Nona took advantage of Kirk while he was drugged, if anything went on at all. Clearly she was the aggressor towards him in that episode and he was under her influence, both chemically and otherwise. But I don’t remember any implied sex going on between them.
And, again, anything Kirk did with Kelinda was solely in the interest of protecting the ship and crew. Not womanizing. It was the same, effectively, as the mind games he played on the robots in “I. Mudd” or convincing the Landru computer to turn itself off.
I still contend that Kirk was not a womanizer as he is stereotypically played out to be.
Uncle Twitchy#445- When the scene in the cave started, Nona was asleep on the bed, with Kirk huddled next to the bed, not on the bed, as was suggested earlier in the thread. I have seen this ep numerous times and never got the feeling that anything physical took place between them until she used the native plant to try to seduce him, and that was, of course, interrupted…
And you are right in regards to your opinion on Kirk’s stereotypical “womanizer” label. Most of the time he was merely flirting or using a woman to help himself or his ship out of the situation of the week.
#434, this is a handy little chart to reference how Kirk’s sex drive directly related to the number of deaths of red shirts (and others). In a nutshell, the more sex Kirk had, the safer everyone else was.
http://www.sitelogicmarketing.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/star-trek-graph.png
http://www.sitelogicmarketing.com/blog/02-analytics-according-to-captain-kirk
If I had a wishlist (okay, I so totally have a wishlist, with Jen Garner as Number One right there at the top) I’d say:
1) No more invisible Disney mothers. Where did Winona Kirk disappear to, and what is her relationship with Jim like? We already know how his father’s absence shaped this Kirk as a person. But what did he gain from Winona? She deserves to be a fully realised Starfleet officer in her own right, not just someone who gives birth and then disappears completely.
2) Find a way to not just tell us, but SHOW us how awesome Uhura is at her job. (Bonus points for her going on an Away Team, the way Uhura Prime used to). I know communications officer does not have built-in visual shorthand of Chekov’s maths or Sulu’s mad piloting skills. But it would go a long way to quelling a lot of the (some justified, some not so much) grumbling re: Uhura’s role I’ve seen in fandom.
3) The first film was very much about how the changes to the timeline affect Kirk and Spock. Now I want to see more of an ensemble adventure, showing the group dynamics of the senior staff as a whole.
4) As much as I love the first film, the giant crab on Hoth, and Jim’s repeated allergic reactions both felt unnecessary–instead of action set pieces and gratuitous humour, the stuff that work best for me as a viewer were the character-driven stuff. Not so much “go bigger” as “go more tightly focussed”.
5) GAILA ON ENTERPRISE. I love the tiny brief second we saw of her and Uhura’s friendship. It even passed the Bechdel Test, until nekkid Jim popped up from under the bed. We didn’t see where Gaila was posted–*please let her have survived* so that MORE GIRLS SURVIVED. Not enough fantastic chicks. And Gaila has really caught the imaginations of the fandom. Plus it gives Uhura a relationship outside of her romantic one with Spock.
6) I like Klingons. I’m just sayin. But First Contact missions are WIN. Everything that could possibly be done with the Klingons and Romulans over the last 40 years has pretty much been done.
7) The submaine battle in Wrath of Khan is awesome. More “there is no ‘up’ in space” space battles = FOR THE WIN.
8) I like Alpha Quadrant politics. I like a Starfleet and Federation with depth and breadth and shades of grey. The total massive fail of Jellico’s armistice, the first and second Cardassian wars, and the Maquis were some of my fave storylines from DS9. Anything in that vein would be AWESOME.
9) If your villian only makes sense and is compelling because you read the comic book prequel, then erm… that may be a problem.
10) You guys produced an entertaining movie that left me craving MORE of these people and this world. Please make another one. And I’ll show up and pay $10 to see it. Promise. Cross my heart.
P.S. MORE CHRIS PIKE IS GOOD. Chicks dig Admiral Pike. Nanotech can fix him. His brand of cowboy is a nice reminder that Starfleet is about Exploration FIRST, and Defence second. And you already know my thoughts on the awesome that was Number One.
Since stealing from the cheesetasticly 80’s Top Gun was so successful for supplanting Kirk’s backstory, I expect the next movie to be a Voyager reboot featuring Janeway as a dancing steel town girl à la Flashdance.
439. SD – agreed about “Doomsday” as an incredible big screen remake subject, especially in this universe where one could do anything differently.
Sadly, like TVH, “Doomsday” can’t just be a pointless killing machine sent by who knows who. In a movie, it has to have a reason for being and a purpose which the whale probe did.
Also, for Trek audiences, it’s a little too much like TMP’s V’ger (which also had a point). It also does something similar to TWOK & TSFS’s Genesis device in that it destroys planets. Speaking of which, that was more or less the plot of the current film for new audiences. Then there was exploding moons in TUC, destroying stars in GEN, destroying planets in INS & NEM. In fact, only two of the 11 films have nothing to do with destroying planets.
Unfortunately, Doomsday would be too much of a re-tread of previously explored ideas to really fly as a fresh new story, unless they came up with a staggeringly new revelation for its existence that helped push the story beyond the rather narrow parameters the planet destroying plotline otherwise presents.
I like to see an alternate Kahn in the next movie. The movie should start off explaing the background of Kahn and why he left Earth. The sleeper ship reaches its destination but it is awaken by a federation survey team where they are exploring a planet with deep mysteries and wonders. As part of the survey team, Carol Marcus and Winona Kirk become friends. During the survey, the team discovers on of the Bajoran Orbs which has the ability to show a person’s alternate timelines. This where Kahn learns about his fate at the hands of James Kirk. This starts his quest to lure the Federation and Kirk to the planet to ensure that he survives his fate.
The other part of the movie deals the forging relationship of Kirk/McCoy/Spock and Kirk/Pike. Kirk goes to the planet with Enterprise to rescue the team but encounters Kahn and some of the mysteries of the planet (good and bad). He also learns about the Orb and has an encounter with the Prime Kirk
This is a rough sketch of an idea. But, I think there are some other great stories out there.
#448
#1 I understand what you’re saying, but the entire movie was about fathers/sons, so it makes sense that the mothers took something of a back seat. I would definitely like to see Winona Kirk in the sequel.
#2 When did Uhura go on away missions in TOS? IIRC, that was one of Nichelle Nichols biggest complaints – that Uhura never got to go anywhere or do much of anything but say ‘hailing frequencies open’. IMO, the character was given more to do in ST09 than she ever did in TOS.
#3 Agreed.
#4 Disagree. The hands things has elicited boisterous laughter from the audience every time I’ve seen it in the theatre. Also disagree about the creature. I want *more* aliens that are actually alien. Goodbye to paper plates stapled on foreheads! Give us some Denebian Slime Devils or Medusans!
#5 Agreed. I’m pretty sure you can see Gaila in the final scene with Kirk receiving the commendation.
#6 I think First Contact is a tall order for a feature film. After all, the only Trek film to have ever dealt with it in a significant way was Insurrection (FC doesn’t count because it was US experiencing FC), and we don’t want to dig that turkey out. FC is a lot of talking and watching, and not very much in the way of action. I think that’s a problem for a Trek film.
#7 I love those sequences, but they are very, very slow. I doubt we’ll see a return to that kind of space battle.
#8 That’s another tricky one. Even real life politics can get very talky and ponderous. You’ve won over a new generation of fans with a tight, inclusive, fast-paced storyline, and you wouldn’t want to lose them by getting mired in Alpha Quadrant politics and treaty disputes.
#9 No one I saw the movie with read the comic, and none of them were confused by Nero’s motivations. I’m always puzzled when this one comes up.
#10 Agreed!
# 436 Closettrekker
“But what I think alot of fans are discounting is the fact that the story in ST09 (for whatever reason) ends in 2258, some 8-10 years prior to the time when any of those you mention were first encountered in the Prime timeline.”
And therein lies the problem playing the ‘fate’ card.
Isn’t it fair to say that if ‘fate’ was what brought this crew together years before they initially should have, that same fate can explain anything you want (or don’t). The ‘fate’ card allows one to accept that which is illogical as logical hence being able to bring in villains or blow up vulcan without ‘true’ temporal discombobulation. The same logic that allows Pike to end up in the wheel chair allows for any other non-logical pairing of the universes. Basically it gives them a free pass.
Yes I know the mirror mirror argument but you know what that was a one-off episode and just shows how over-scrutinization of canon can be bad policy.
I for one hope they bring something new to the table and leave nostalgia on the door step.
As someone else mentioned earlier in the thread, I think a plot centering on a parallel universe or parallel dimension would be cool. The crew encounters strange, unknown beings (mission statement: check) … it could be a wicked, thrilling way to go. Maybe they need to stop the dimensional creatures from doing something which would reverse the “Big Bang” or something.
I mean, sure, there are a million story possibilities but that, to me, would be fascinating!
#455—”Isn’t it fair to say that if ‘fate’ was what brought this crew together years before they initially should have, that same fate can explain anything you want (or don’t). ”
But the question is—how far does “fate” extend in the lives of these people?
Does “fate” (and I’ll personify it here) consider our heroes encountering a rogue named Harry Mudd to be as significant or important as James T. Kirk ending up in command of the Enterprise with certain individuals by his side?
If the “fate” is ‘course-correcting’ the Universe in the wake of alterations to the timeline, how much of what occurred in TOS is actually crucial to its agenda?
I don’t think “that’s not fair” is a valid argument, since one would think that the survival of Vulcan should be more significant than Kirk and company meeting up with the likes of Mudd, Trelane, or Koloth—-and ‘fate’ seemingly had no problem allowing Vulcan to be destroyed.
$457
“If the “fate” is ‘course-correcting’ the Universe in the wake of alterations to the timeline, how much of what occurred in TOS is actually crucial to its agenda?”
and
“and ‘fate’ seemingly had no problem allowing Vulcan to be destroyed.”
I guess that is the point. The criteria for the ‘fate effect’ are conveniently at the hands of the story tellers; hence the free pass.
#458—”The criteria for the ‘fate effect’ are conveniently at the hands of the story tellers; hence the free pass.”
But isn’t that always the case with those who are telling any story?
After all, everything is in the hands of the storyteller—-including the motivations and actions of the characters. And in this context, since “fate” has intervened to ensure that these people come together as they have—isn’t “fate” (for all practical purposes) a character in the story as well?
The bottom line is that “fate” can have any agenda the writers see fit to give it. I suppose that the storytellers would simply have a more difficult time convincing me that “fate” would be as interested in Kirk encountering the likes of Harry Mudd as it would be in ensuring that he takes command of the Enterprise with certain key people by his side. If that were the case, why would it take no such interest in preserving the planet Vulcan?
#459 “But isn’t that always the case with those who are telling any story?”
Yes but it’s not usually passed off as canon.
“I suppose that the storytellers would simply have a more difficult time convincing me that “fate” would be as interested in Kirk encountering the likes of Harry Mudd as it would be in ensuring that he takes command of the Enterprise with certain key people by his side.”
In the ‘fateual’ context I would agree. But the crux of the problem is deciding that fate fate was so interested in our beloved crew and not the beloved crews of all those Klingons or Vulcans who bought it is a little hard to swallow.
“If that were the case, why would it take no such interest in preserving the planet Vulcan?”
Exactly. Illogical.
But this argument is exactly the reason I want more of a clean break because we’ll be having these arguments for years and years with no logical outcome except for the logic of wanting to appeal to the fanbase (ahhh the capital “C” Canon) :)
#460—”Yes but it’s not usually passed off as canon.”
On the contrary, canon is always in the hands of the storytellers.
“…the crux of the problem is deciding that fate was so interested in our beloved crew and not the beloved crews of all those Klingons or Vulcans who bought it is a little hard to swallow.”
I’m not sure why. I think that Earth is key to the way the Universe is supposed to play out (the Federation ultimately becomes the dominant force in the Alpha Quadrant, and Earth is the dominant force in the Federation), and are Jim Kirk and company not responsible for saving Earth (literally) on multiple occasions?
Makes sense to me.
439 SD: I’d like a Doomsday remake, because it’s my favorite TOS episode. But it won’t happen, I believe, exactly because of the faceless, impersonal enemy. Remember that even the Borg were considered too impersonal for a feature film, and so they had to introduce that silly Borg Queen, and they didn’t even care that this ruins the whole Borg concept.
Well, maybe if there’s a malignant AI at the helm of the Doomsday Machine. You know, it’s gone insane after billions of years of traversing the intergalactic void. This could actually work.
@ Bob Orci: I won’t sue Paramount if you use this, but I want to be in the end credits ;-)
I do agree with the notion that old stories shouldn’t be rehashed (or even necessarily reimagined) as a general practice.
With that said, there are certain canonical absolutes common to both timelines.
The Doomsday Machine, V’Ger, and the Whale Probe are good examples of that. Without question, those things are still out there regardless of the interference with the timeline on the part of Nero and Spock Prime. However, that doesn’t mean that these things must be dealt with (yet again) on screen—-particularly since the Enterprise (or the Federation, for that matter) would not come into contact with those things for another 8, 13, and 24 years respectively.
The SS Botany Bay, however, is another matter. Although the Enterprise wouldn’t come into contact with it until 2267 (in the Prime timeline), it is entirely plausible that another ship (or even the Enterprise) might do so prior to that due to the changes in the timeline (and the inevitability that different ships would therefore be in different places at different times).
#461 “I think that Earth is key to the way the Universe is supposed to play out ..”
So we as earthlings are “fated” to be the guardians of the alpha quadrant eh? Careful sir. We as humans have already seen the dangers of such thinking.
to quote Q: “Humans. I’d have thought by now you would have scampered back to your own little star system. ”
“On the contrary, canon is always in the hands of the storytellers.”
Creating a plot device that allows one to do whatever they want in the context of canon negates the need for a logical plot in said canon.
#464—-”So we as earthlings are “fated” to be the guardians of the alpha quadrant eh? Careful sir. We as humans have already seen the dangers of such thinking. ”
That’s not from me. That’s from DS9—-as all of the Dominion alliance members view Earth as the central body in the Federation, and the Federation as the “key to the Alpha quadrant”. Take it up with the Berman/Braga era writers—-not with me.
#464—”Creating a plot device that allows one to do whatever they want in the context of canon negates the need for a logical plot in said canon.”
Lol. That is principally no different from using such devices as “The only starship in intercept range is the Enterprise”, or “We’re the only ship in the quadrant”—- both of which also eliminate the need for finding logical reason in why a starship handicapped by a “boatload of children” is sent to investigate a potential problem on Regula One, and sent to deal with the menacing V’Ger despite not even being “tested at warp power”.
This is a Star Trek movie. Contrivances come with the territory.
@ Berman/Braga era writers:
So we as earthlings are “fated” to be the guardians of the alpha quadrant eh? Careful sirs or madams. We as humans have already seen the dangers of such thinking.
#467—”@ Berman/Braga era writers:…”
Lmao!
#466 “This is a Star Trek movie. Contrivances come with the territory.”
They have to be plausible. Having the only starship in intercept range being the Enterprise is plausible. Having Pike end up in a wheel chair given 2 entirely different sets of circumstances is less plausible (notice I didn’t say not plausible). Having Kirk and crew together on the Enterprise given 2 different sets of circumstances is less plausible. Being the only ship in the quadrant is plausible. The stated cases are clearly, principally, different.
#468
Well at that point I was committed.. :)
$233,000,000 later…
We’ll take whatever they give us and we’ll like it!
While I don’t want to see a Wrath of Khan, a redone Space Seed would be interesting.
#469—-”Having Kirk and crew together on the Enterprise given 2 different sets of circumstances is less plausible… The stated cases are clearly, principally, different.”
Less plausible? Given that those are the two random examples I threw out there, maybe. But how plausible is this:
Of all the people who could have beamed down to Ceti Alpha V (apparently without noticing that there was one fewer planet in the system, by the way) and run into a pissed off Khan—it just so happens to be a former member of the Enterprise crew recognized by him. But the contrivances are just getting started. Khan just so happens to gain control of yet another starship and get to an area of Space (which is big, by the way) where just the man he’s looking for happens to have taken command of “the only ship in the quadrant” (despite otherwise “flying a computer console” on a daily basis) and appeared conveniently for Khan to take revenge upon him. Furthermore, Khan has gained knowledge of a powerful device he covets which just so happens to have been created by none other than….get this—-the former lover and illegitimate son of the same man upon whom Khan wishes to exact that revenge! No, I’m serious….that really happened in the movie. :)
In any case, the principle is the same. Telling a good story often means stretching the bounds of plausibility—-especially within the historical context of the Star Trek film franchise.
#473
Let me put it this way. I cannot give you a good reason why your ST2 plot couldn’t happen.
I CAN however give you a reason why Pike shouldn’t end up in the chair: he was never “severely injured while rescuing several cadets from a baffle plate rupture onboard a J-class training vessel, the delta ray radiation leaving him paralyzed, mute, badly scarred, and confined to a wheelchair at Starbase 11″ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Pike_(Star_Trek))
That Pike still ends up in the chair (albeit not paralyzed) is more than stretching the bounds of plausibility; it’s making a statement. All these coincidences in the movie make a statement: Look how much the universe stays the same given a different origin (Kirk as captain, Pike in the chair). It also states how much the universe can change given a different origin (bye bye Vulcan).
If the writers are conscious of these statements it can enhance the storytelling and make it more plausible. The less conscious they are the bigger the chance that more implausible actions will occur.
We have to take it on faith that the similarities in the timeline (given different origins) were done for a reason and some of these reasons should be apparent (in some way) to the astute viewer to maintain that faith.
It is this faith, this contract, that will be tested in the next movie.
#472—”…a redone Space Seed would be interesting.”
While it (”Space Seed” with a twist) certainly could be, there would inevitably be a substantial portion of the fanbase that would rip the writers and accuse them of not being capable of a completely original story idea.
I think it is probably a good idea to go in another direction in the 2nd installment of the Bad Robot Star Trek film series and dispell that notion right away. If there is still a desire on their part to revisit Khan, why not do it in the 3rd installment?
I realize that this may run contrary to Bob Orci’s thoughts on saving anything for an uncertain tommorow, but that’s my take.
But, all things being equal, I would probably enjoy a story in which another vessel (in this timeline) encounters the SS Botany Bay, and—once Khan and his followers have overtaken the ship—the Enterprise must ultimately deal with them. There is no question to me that such a story has the potential to be very exciting and entertaining for a broad audience (which is key to the continued success of this film series).
As long as they don’t use this to construct the new movie:
The Star Trek: TNG Movie Plot Generator
http://www.thecaptainkirkpage.com/tngplotter.html
#472, 475
Wouldn’t it be cool if a different set of circumstances this time around made Khan a dear friend of Kirk instead of an enemy?
#474—”Let me put it this way. I cannot give you a good reason why your ST2 plot couldn’t happen. ”
And yet it isn’t likely at all that so many convenient circumstances could occur. The only reason you cite against the plausibility of the no more convenient coincidences in ST09 is that they, too, are unlikely.
“I CAN however give you a reason why Pike shouldn’t end up in the chair: he was never ’severely injured while rescuing several cadets from a baffle plate rupture onboard a J-class training vessel, the delta ray radiation leaving him paralyzed, mute, badly scarred, and confined to a wheelchair at Starbase 11.’ ”
But that suggests that this is the only way one can end up in a wheelchair, and that couldn’t be further from the truth.
“That Pike still ends up in the chair (albeit not paralyzed) is more than stretching the bounds of plausibility; it’s making a statement.”
I think it was merely an amusing nod to those of us who have long been established fans and would be likely to recall that Pike ended up in a wheelchair in the Prime timeline.
Moreover, as you’ve pointed out, he is presumably not paralyzed in this case—nor is he only capable of communicating by a series of ‘beeps’ indicating yes or no only. We also have no idea of his health status. Is his confinement to a wheelchair temporary or permanent?
“If the writers are conscious of these statements it can enhance the storytelling and make it more plausible. ”
At the very least, Bob Orci is conscious of them. He made very clear the story’s intentional use of ‘fate’ in a recent Q & A session right here at TM.
But again, I am not sure that Pike’s placement in the wheelchair was anything more than a fanboy nod.
I was always intrigued by the T’Kon empire from TNG’s “The Last Outpost” and its advanced technology. Have Kirk and Co come into contact with a species (or what remains of it) that can move stars, reshape the galaxy, etc. A little like the Q but based on machines, not on snapping your fingers.
Also, teach Kirk a lesson: Put him in a situation where everything seems simple to him (e.g. “Errand of Mercy”, and countless other TOS episodes), but turns out to be far more complicated in reality. (But don’t make it a lame surprise, like “They’re the same species!” from “Insurrection”.)
In TOS, Kirk was the fighting man and the identification figure for the audience, and he often “got” things last. (Spock always seemed to figure everything out before him, as in “Devil in the Dark.”) Many of the best episodes of TOS had Kirk somewhat humbled somewhat in the end, because his prejudices and preconceptions turned out to be misleading. This would also be a good way to have the Pine Kirk grow up a little more.
Also, many (early) TOS episodes had Kirk state in his log that the Enterprise was “at the edge of unexplored space”, etc. Bring back that feeling! Episodes like “Arena” and “Balance of Terror” really gave you the sense that everything depended on Kirk’s decisions because Starfleet was too far away to be of any use.
In short, look at the first seasons of TOS and TNG. They were not necessarily the best, but they were creative and unpredictable and tried to expand their respective universes. Later seasons were more slick but also more timid and predictable, because e.g. the typical behavior of the Borg or the Romulans was pretty well established by then, so the element of surprise was gone.
#454
I forgot that “Squire of Gothos” and “Plato’s Stepchildren” both involve the bridge crew being kidnapped. But if we’re looking at, say, Hoshi Sato as a precedent, there are plenty of instances where the comms officer went on Away Teams. But just because Uhura Prime didn’t (due to television politics of the day), doesn’t mean Uhura *can’t*. And that’s one of the ways this 21st century Trek can expand upon the original. And it’s important to show her being awesome as well as telling us she’s awesome. (And for the record, that goes for McCoy and Scotty too.)
As for the giant hands, yes it’s funny and got a laugh. I just don’t think it *needed* the laugh. One of the biggest issues I’ve seen with how fandom has perscieved Kirk is that he’s more of a frat boy, when in fact he’s just as sharp a tactician and strong leader as Kirk Prime, and displays that over and over again in STXI. I think scenes like the numbtongue, while funny, undercut that more than they need to, tho obviously in this case, it was there to give McCoy a role outside of Sickbay.
As for first contact, think of how many TOS episodes involved actually exploring strange new worlds and meeting new civilisations. There’s a LOT of story to tell in this new series that doesn’t rely on TOS villains we’ve seen before.
As for Alpha Quadrant politics, I just ean that I enjoy seeing shades of grey in how the Federation and Starfleet is portrayed. It doesn’t always have to be in the right, as GR insisted during the TNG days. I much preferred the textured and layered depiction of the Trek universe we got in DS9, because conflict could come from within, rather than always being brought by the Aliens Of The Week, which is just a weaker story to tell.
Think about how much of STXI is about the conflict between Spock and Kirk. Neither of them is a good captain of the Enterprise *alone*. It’s only when they work together and balance each other out that they achieve greatness, as it were. And even then, there’s still that push-pull. Plus it extends to McCoy and Uhura. Bones is there to back Jim up, Nyota is there to back Spock up, and challenge Spock and Kirk respectively. That to me is why I’m interested in this new dynamic so much, because we’re seeing new sides to these characters, and a relationship dynamic we never saw in TOS.
#478 “But again, I am not sure that Pike’s placement in the wheelchair was anything more than a fanboy nod.”
I agree. I think fanboy nods are distracting.
#477—”Wouldn’t it be cool if a different set of circumstances this time around made Khan a dear friend of Kirk instead of an enemy?”
I think that Khan’s nature (and ironically, Kirk’s own nature too) would preclude that from ever happening, but the general concept of Kirk developing an entirely different relationship with someone he knew in the Prime Timeline is in itself an interesting thought. After all, the natures of our relationships (as interactive human beings) are often derived from something which seemingly occurs quite randomly and they could often easily go the other way.
I think fanboy nods are distracting… especially at the cost of plausibility.
#480—”But just because Uhura Prime didn’t (due to television politics of the day), doesn’t mean Uhura *can’t*.”
Although her presence certainly wasn’t all that important, she did beam down to the Guardian’s planet, did she not?
She was also part of the landing party that beamed down to negotiate with the Halkans (and as a result, ended up in the Mirror Universe with Kirk).
And yet another kidnapping incident occurs in “The Gamesters Of Triskellion”—in which Kirk, Uhura, and Chekov are all taken.
#482 “I think that Khan’s nature (and ironically, Kirk’s own nature too) would preclude that from ever happening”
That’s what makes it interesting.
That’s what made Vader coming back to the good side after all that evil interesting.
#482 “After all, the natures of our relationships (as interactive human beings) are often derived from something which seemingly occurs quite randomly and they could often easily go the other way.”
.. which is why I don’t really have a problem with the Uhura/Spock thing.. though I did feel a little embarrassed at the transporter snogging scene..
#481—”I think fanboy nods are distracting”
Funny how that works. You found it distracting, yet I thought it was great. I definitely felt like I was the beneficiary of an in-joke that much of the audience wouldn’t get—and I am pretty sure that was the intent.
‘This isn’t plausible’ was the furthest thought from my mind.
My issues with that scene were entirely focused upon the absurdity that the young Kirk would be promoted to the permanent rank of captain right then and there, and questions as to why the writers deemed it necessary to leave that point in the story presumably in the year 2258, rather than pushing the story forward a few years and thereby removing that issue from the equation.
I think I would prefer an original story, but with perhaps a sub-plot that involves some seminal event from TOS timeline incorporated into the larger story. Maybe we get to see a behind-the-curtain look of the TOS event, or maybe the immediate aftermath of some event that is tied directly into the new story. Maybe it begins with some act that Kirk, Spock and the Enterprise did in the TOS timeline that they THOUGHT was positive, but maybe in THIS alternate timeline, it turns out not even remotely as positive as they thought it would, and leads to something extremely ominous and threatening.
Just some thoughts.
Easter Egg Shatner! Shat could be in drag! Shh, don’t tell anyone
#487 “I definitely felt like I was the beneficiary of an in-joke that much of the audience wouldn’t get”
I guess I don’t like it when the magician gives me a little wink-and-a-nod whilst performing the trick (see what I just did! and nobody suspects!).. I’d rather enjoy the magic.
#487 — Considering the Fleet has just lost a *minimum* of 3000 experienced officers and crewmen (closer to 7000 if they were all carrying crew compliments equivelent to the Enterprise’s 1100) and most of a cadet graduating class, and 7 ships, I don’t find Kirk’s brevet rank/battlefield promotion being approved nearly as surprising as I might otherwise. Something tells me Starfleet is going to be seriously hurting to crew ships for a while… And Enterprise was brand new, and therefore the only ship who didn’t have a full crew compliment and had a large cadet crew in the Battle of Vulcan. So it makes it slightly more plausible for me.
#475: “I guess I don’t like it when the magician gives me a little wink-and-a-nod whilst performing the trick (see what I just did! and nobody suspects!).. I’d rather enjoy the magic.”
Well put. The parade of nods also contributed to the “created by checklist” feel of the film. “Red shirt killed … check … McCoy makes the I’m-a-doctor remark … check …” That stuff was already front and center, and the various in-jokes, while certainly well-intentioned, just seemed to highlight the cracks and seams, enhancing the sense of artifice. We’ve got spacemen with ray guns. There’s enough artifice without _adding_ any :)
#491: “Considering the Fleet has just lost a *minimum* of 3000 experienced officers and crewmen (closer to 7000 if they were all carrying crew compliments equivelent to the Enterprise’s 1100) and most of a cadet graduating class, and 7 ships”
So let’s make the stowaway first officer? What I’m saying is: If the next movie is yet-another-dipshit-scenery-chewing-revenge-motivated-why-can’t-we-just-hire-real-writers-villain, it should be a furious Finnegan with a whole crew of pissed-off cadets who feel jilted :)
#493: #491: “Considering the Fleet has just lost a *minimum* of 3000 experienced officers and crewmen (closer to 7000 if they were all carrying crew compliments equivelent to the Enterprise’s 1100) and most of a cadet graduating class, and 7 ships”
…seven warships lost to a mining vessel… full of miners.
I for one would like to see a big screen version of “Return of the Archons.” I think they could make a fabulous movie about that episode. They’d be able to make some changes to it because of the changed timeline. Plus, it has a real philosophical issue which could raise some interesting debate. Should they interfere?
And it would have no time travel or angry villain – thank goodness!
Joy be with you friends, peace and tranquility.
You…
You’re not of the body!!!
#493
Pike knew the stowaway’s academic record (he was set to graduate afetr only 3 years, and for all we know, based on the “genius level” exam results from his days as an Iowa juvenile offender, there’s no reason to believe he *wasn’t* getting top marks) and knew what sort of man he was, he promoted him to XO. Then given Kirk’s actions during both the Battle of Vulcan and the Battle of Earth, the board voted to ratify the rank.
Yeah, it’s wacky–but speaking as someone whose grandfather made his way up the ranks of the British army much the same way in WWII, I don’t think it’s impossible. merely hyperbole for dramatic effect.
And on top of everything else, we don’t know how long after the Battle of Earth that tag is meant to be. Long enough for the cadets to graduate and be commissioned, and the Vulcan Colony project to be organised. Could have been 3 weeks. but also could have been 3 months.
(And given the loss of Vulcan, it could have been done as a political move, promoting the hero of the hour from Lieutenant to Captain, and giving him teh ship they can’t crew without pulling a senior officer off another ship with no notice for the sake of morale.)
Since the altered time still gravitates characters back together, what about Pike’s prime crew? This movie on the E takes place when the Cage crew should have been there. Gravitate Jose Tyler and Yeoman Colt back onto the E (save Rand for the 5th movie, and (send Chekov back the academy) bring back Chekov in the 6th movie). That would be a great nod to Trek history, and make the altered time-line concept seem a little more believable…
#494 “seven warships lost to a mining vessel…full of miners”
Funny, I thought they looked older than THAT!
I don’t have time to read all of these comments, but I hope they make the Enterprise herself more of a character in this next film and more relevant. The Enterprise was the star of the TV show and the movies that came before.
I thought the big E was kind of an afterthought in Abrams first Trek film.
#500, I think Abrams thought alot about the E, basically make it a cross between TMP E and Voyager. I generally like the movie, but the new E is crap, and the less time they spend showing it, the better.
Please make sure that WIlliam Shatner is in this next film!!!
Shatner shagged me back in the sixties.
Too much LDS.
Shatner can play himself in the next film. Maybe he finds a dusty old book and as he is reading it becomes clear that he is Captain Kirk. Basically a Neverending Story twist on Star Trek to throw off the fans once and for all.
#491, #493 – actually that’s the best and most logical explanation I have heard. I still don’t like that Kirk was seemingly promoted so quickly, but you are right, enough time has passed so that it wasn’t ridiculous.
I would add this to your explanation as well:
1) Pike may well be on the ship when Kirk warps them out at the end, or he may have told Star Fleet he would supervise Kirk, knowing full well he wouldn’t have to. Whether on the ship or not, he’s just a sub-space all away.
2) The Enterprise never had a maiden voyage much less a shake down. Considering the damage sustained during the defeat of Nero, certainly they are not about to send the Enterprise into harm’s way. What better chance to test the metal of the new captain and put the Enterprise and it’s young crew through its paces. They may not be planning on letting Kirk keep the Enterprise at all after the shakedown (I hear the barley and hops are making the ant-matter bitter and Scotty needs to work that out, which may take some time). Of course, once the Enterprise finds itself the only starship in the sector capable of answering a distress call again, Kirk will once again prove himself worthy of keeping the command.
#58- I am with you. The Doomsday Machine would make a great movie.
Original story please. And get Shatner in it.
Retell Space Seed. That way I can keep my TWOK, and they can spend 2 hours without sh***y stunt doubles and clay phasers. Unleash that bad boy, and make it work hard for our love.
#497: I respect your skill at rationalizing (it’s a time-honored fan tradition), and yeah, I personally have been going with the “it’s political” thing in my own apologetiverse, but … I am curious to know: are you consciously rationalizing the crappy script, or are you (for your own peace of mind) choosing to believe that these are things the screenwriters actually had in mind?
#491 & 497-I like your ideas. Only makes an outstanding movie seem even better-in my opinion. Going to see it for a 7th time tomorrow night and will for sure see it an 8th time on my birthday (July 28th). I’m betting it will still be around on that day, if even in the “cheapy theaters.”
#508
I don’t see it has a crappy script, first off. I think a lot of things were would have liekd to have seen (including scenes written adn filmed) were sacrificed for pacing, because you really can’t not introduce the main plot and action over 35 minutes in. Because pacing is everything, and I imagine STXI was edited to be as streamlined and lean as it could possibly be.
But secondly, YES, I am looking for plausible in-universe explanations, rather than going at it from the “audiences who are only familiar with the basics fo Star Trek will not find the ending emotionally satisfying unless it ends with Kirk and the bridge crew on Enterprise” viewpoint.
But delivering an ending that will satisfy the mass audience, even if it ticks off a tiny handful of die-hard fans is not the mark of a crappy script. It’s the mark of a commercially successful relaunching of a franchise which has had its brand value diminished by a succession of sub-standard films and the declining quality of the television series spin-offs (Manny Coto’s tenure on ENT notwithstanding).
Do I wish the ending was tighter, and managed to work for BOTH types of fan? Of course I do. I’ve been a Trek fan since childhood. I’m the one who came out of the Chicago AICN screening going “Wow! That was great! I wanna see it again! But where the hell was Sam Kirk? That’s the only thing that the alternate timeline doesn’t fix and is the only continuity error that busg me”.
But in addition to being a borderline aspie trainspotting fangirl, I’m also a realist, and frankly, I’ll take what I can get. And if that means fanwanking it? Not as if, as you mentioned, it isn’t a long-standing fannish tradition. But I maintain that what seems an nearly impossible and implausible leap to you I still see as not that far a leap–more of a nudge.
(Me, I await the dvd deleted scenes with GLEE. And not becasue we’ll probably spend the next 5 years arguing whether or not we consider them part of the canon.)
OK. Here’s the thing: ‘Star Trek’ was in many ways an incredibly original take on classic / canonical / moribund ‘Trek’. It dared to suggest that these beloved characters, these comfortable relationships, this oh-so-familiar universe might NOT be “the same”, in certain circumstances and in the wake of specific stimuli. That Roddenberry’s singular — some might say, narrow — vision of future humanity might NOT wind up QUITE the way he insisted it would. ‘Star Trek’ deigned to introduce unpredictability, to hint that not all outcomes were predetermined by the inexorable march of progress, to paint a picture not immediately, inevitably recognizeable even to the casual fan. However, ‘Star Trek’ was in most other respects an exceptionally traditional ‘Trek’ story. Once again, the Enterprise is the only ship in the quadrant. Once again, its actions and those of its crew are largely taken as if Starfleet was, as Capt. Robau implied, on the other side of forever. Once again, the Enterprise faced down a staggeringly capable foe with weapons and capabilities beyond any that Starfleet possesses. Once again, Kirk is opposed by an implacable, slightly mad foe who will stop at nothing to complete his diabolical mission, to fuel his own selfish emotional needs at any cost. Once again, defeat seems certain until, at the eleventh hour, victory is snatched from its jaws.
Yawn.
I loved this film. However, upon repeated viewings I came to a sudden (and unwanted) realization: ‘Star Trek’ — ANY ‘Star Trek’, in feature film form anyway — is just like ‘Rocky’. The David-like crew square off, in single combat, against their Goliath-esque adversary, are certain to be annihilated, and then — through an unlikely amalgam of luck, pluck, perseverance, ingenuity, and photon torpedoes — come up with an eleventh-hour grand slam to close the deal. Been there. Done that, bought the DVD. (In fact, nine of ‘em, ‘Undiscovered Country’ excepted.)
Next time, let’s see something different. Here are some suggestions:
First, LET’S SEE A REAL STAR FLEET. We got a taste of what it means for the Enterprise to be part of — yes, in fact the “flagship” of, but still just a single expression of — an actual “armada”, with half a dozen other starships peeling off from the nascent Space Dock and then their doom high above Vulcan. I want more. We’ve seen, many many times, the Enterprise come to the rescue. We don’t need to see the same old Underdog “Here I come to save the daaaaaay!” scenario AGAIN, do we? At least, not for a couple more movies. Let’s see the Enterprise COORDINATE, for once, with other — perhaps not equally, but certainly potentially — capable vessels manned with intrepid, ingenious, sacrifical crews. Let’s see that mighty fleet the Klingons were so impressed by, the Romulans were so stymied by, the Cardassians were so wounded by.
Next — IT’S TIME KIRK SUFFERED SOME AGAIN. The last time Starfleet’s “great man” had to overcome anything, really, was in ‘The Search for Spock’ (I am deliberately ignoring the existence of ‘Final Frontier’), and it was then and in ‘Wrath of Khan’, when he was facing down his demons and confronting life’s most horrible truths, that the character was at its best. We KNOW Kirk has the potential to be a larger-than-life, even mythical, figure, but, as Spock insisted, a horse “has to be broken before it can reach its full potential.” And being marooned for fifteen minutes on Delta Vega is hardly the sort of noble suffering the most revered characters have to endure before they TRULY rise above the sea of potentially outstanding human personalities. Odysseus would throw his head back and laugh at such a weak “challenge”. So, I believe, would Zachary Quinto’s Spock. I don’t care if it’s his older brother George, his mother Winona, his girl Carol Marcus or some other ancillary and resonant character from the series’ data banks… Kirk needs to be put through the wringer in the next film, if only to earn Spock’s respect as something more than a cunning rebel.
Third, DON’T TAKE US DOWN FAMILIAR ROADS. The easy thing to do, in the eyes of the fans and the studio, will be to show us not-quite-Khan, or not-quite-Mudd, or not-quite-Edith Keeler, or something, but that’s a cheap and pathetic way to flesh out this new, ingenious, liberating reality you’ve provided us. Sure, throw in a few knowing references from time to time, like you did in ‘Star Trek’: Nurse Chapel, Admiral Archer’s beagle, and the like. But you’ve invested SO much effort in creating this new universe, unfettered by Roddenberry’s beautiful but, in so many ways, retarded worldview. Let’s see you take some risks, chart some unknown territory. Make the second film truly YOUR OWN. You’ve busted your asses getting all of us to buy into a ‘Trek’ free from so many of the old, familiar, wearying “rules”. Don’t take the easy route now.
Lastly, get back to ‘Trek’’s original (series) brilliance: Providing a lens through which the greatest and most irresolvable issues of its time could be explored, discussed and — perhaps idealistically, but, heck, the world NEEDS idealism sometimes, and right the now’s certainly one of ‘em — even, potentially, resolved. Take a look at what Ron Moore and co. did with the latest incarnation of ‘BSG’. We don’t necessarily need black-and-white aliens, but an “Aha!” moment or two wouldn’t necessarily be out of order. Nor would using the next ‘Trek’ film as an incentive to get people talking about something more relevant than revenge or survival. Explore some less-than-adequately-charted MORAL territory to go along with the vast tracts of space the Enterprise will be navigating, and you’ll have gone an awful long way toward making this series at once your own and at the same time worthy of its nigh-subversive history.
You guys have some thinking ahead, some tough decisions. But I have faith in you. Hell, you pulled THIS off. I can’t wait to see what’s next. Since my customary farewell would be oddly self-serving, I’ll simply leave you with this: Good Luck.
P.S. Oh, and figure out a way to let us know if Gaila survived, willya? [Grin]
I for one have no problem with re-visiting old characters like Harry Mudd. Though Khan has been done and we don’t need to do that again. Taking a story like “Mudd’s Women” and fleshing it out, no pun intended, could be a great story and a fun movie. Hot chicks, designer drugs, dylithium crystals… add some Klingons & Tellerites and you’ve got another hit movie.
Of course now that I’ve written it, I’ve probably jinxed it. Oh well.
Yeah baby – I want to see more women eating jelly babies to get an instant make-over! We don’t even need the make-over actually; Dr Who just used to eat jelly babies.
#494—”…seven warships lost to a mining vessel… full of miners.”
Point of clarification:
Full of former miners (they have basically been terrorists for 25 years by that point)… armed with technology from the year 2287. The Narada hasn’t been “just a mining vessel” in a long time.
#508—-”I am curious to know: are you consciously rationalizing the crappy script, or are you (for your own peace of mind) choosing to believe that these are things the screenwriters actually had in mind?”
Although I have some issues with the script of my own, I think it’s a long way from being “crappy”.
To be fair, some of Tara’s rationalization (in particular, that of what I consider to be the problematic promotion scene) is indeed part of what the screenwriters had in mind (along with the “reward factor”)—-at least according to one of the screenwriters himself. You were around that day too.
I don’t think that it holds up particularly well though, as the need to replenish the ranks actually into question the reasoning behind promoting Pike from Captain to Admiral. If Starfleet is in need of captains, why compound that need by voluntarily giving up one of its experienced ones to the Admiralty? In my mind, Pike should have remained captain for awhile. In fact, it is common military practice to freeze promotions above a certain grade in time of a shortage in manpower. I can see Kirk’s commission being accelerated (along with a large number of more senior cadets), due in part to a need on Starfleet’s behalf, and of course because Kirk has indeed demonstrated a particular aptitude for decisive action and leadership. However, “cadet to captain in 2258″ is still more than a minor stretch to me. The promotion scene in ST09 ranks with the TWOK training scenario and the STV “3 Captains and 4 Commanders aboard the same ship” scenario as one of the more questionable instances of Starfleet personnel assignment (at least from this former Marine officer’s perspective).
$487 – “My issues with that scene were entirely focused upon the absurdity that the young Kirk would be promoted to the permanent rank of captain right then and there, and questions as to why the writers deemed it necessary to leave that point in the story presumably in the year 2258, rather than pushing the story forward a few years and thereby removing that issue from the equation.”
I wasn’t 100% sure they’d actually done that. It could have been that that particular scene jump really did move things forward. The movie’s a bit unclear on that point, and in one interview, Bob Orci said that it was deliberately so. (He, of course, could speak to that, if he’s still reading. :) )
If it is the case that some time has passed, and maybe that scene really was happening in 2263 or ‘64, I thought it was rather touching to have Spock Prime watching from the upstairs balcony as Kirk fulfills that aspect of his destiny.
#500 – “I hope they make the Enterprise herself more of a character in this next film and more relevant. The Enterprise was the star of the TV show and the movies that came before.”
Considering what the behind-the-scenes folks are saying has been done to the Enterprise, I’d love to see an on-screen refutation of those claims…or the less seen of a supersized Enterprise, the better. But, then, I’m part of the school that says you shouldn’t radically change the characters, and I do see the Enterprise as one of the characters, as you say.
You know there is a way to tell an original story and yet tie it into the original series and that is to do a story using the way the klingons looked in TOS then involve them and their planet, along with the enterprise in some kind of story line that ends up changing them into the way modern klingons today. I think a story line like that would appeal to many fans who always wondered what happen between to the klingons between the end of the orginal series and the first movie. But it would also be original enough and big enough to appeal to all the new fans that the new movie has brought on board.
#516—”I wasn’t 100% sure they’d actually done that. It could have been that that particular scene jump really did move things forward. The movie’s a bit unclear on that point, and in one interview, Bob Orci said that it was deliberately so. ”
I don’t recall that interview, but I’ll take your word for it, Alex. I’m not sure what the benefit of ambiguity would be in that scene. It seems very likely that, if the filmmakers had wished that to be conveyed, something like “2265″ would have appeared in the corner of the screen.
The story’s timeline is quite clear in other instances where the filmmakers wish to convey the passage of a significant amount of time. For example, the dialogue establishes that the Kelvin attack takes place in 2233. The year “2255″ appears on screen during the time of the Iowa barfight and Kirk’s recruitment into SFA. The transition “3 years later” appears during the time of Kirk’s 3rd attempt to pass the KM test. However, there is no other attempt to convey the passage of any significant time (although I would suspect that the Enterprise would be in need of some repair time prior to the final scene).
Also, the notion that the amount of time passed between the Narada’s defeat and Kirk’s promotion scene can be measured in years rather than weeks or a few months suggests that Pike’s confinement to a wheelchair is longterm—if not altogether permanent. It will be interesting to see if he remains in that chair in the sequel. It also suggests that the uniform Kirk is wearing during the promotion scene is something other than that of a cadet. While not impossible, that seems unlikely.
Thank you, Bob & Alex.
And to everyone @TrekMovie – In the article, they attributed opening weekend success to word of mouth – great job everyone!
(So far I’ve taken 35 people to see it with me!)
NEW STORY – Kirk, Spock and McCoy always set the tone, and given that this is an almost entirely new Kirk, informed by a new timeline, and that Spock has now learned, through tragedy, lessons about emotion far earlier in life than did Nimoy’s Spock, I don’t think retooling an old episode or reusing an old villain (as is) would work – at all. I also think Kirk is likely to make more mistakes since he’s become Captain almost by virtue of a fluke, and has become such far younger than Shatner’s Kirk. He’s obviously still a CAPABLE character, but as Spock says in about the older Khan, “He’s intelligent, but inexperienced.” I think that’s going to, and should, apply to the new Kirk in at least the next movie.
Also, I’d like to see McCoy take center stage at some point, at least have a major subplot revolve around him. Urban is such a surprise success in the role that it’d be a real shame if they didn’t take advantage not just of Urban’s talent, which was evident to them during filming, but literally everyone’s (hardcore fans included) acceptance and even praise of him in the role. In terms of an emotional arc, I’d like to see something akin to season 3’s “For The World Is Hollow, And I Have Touched The Sky” – definitely NOT the same story, but something with similar themes.
As for the Enterprise, I don’t know why anyone is complaining. We all knew there would be a few changes, but if anyone feels so beholden to the old design, they should be grateful that SO FEW changes were actually made. I mean, if they duplicated the model from the television show, we’d be complaining about that for certain – as is, it’s a nice compromise of the TV show’s design and Star Trek: The Motion Picture’s. As for its size, why is that an issue? I’d think bigger would be better if only for the fact that it’d be more realistic. The only thing I’m concerned about is how in the world (literally) they got the Enterprise off of the Iowa fields and into space. The only way I can think of is that some big space barge utilized a massive tractor beam to pull it up the way wrecked ships are sometimes pulled up from the bottom of the sea.
NEW TIMELINE demands NEW ORIGINAL STORIES. I believe that I speak for the majority, Greenwood’s Captain Pike is a fantastic character to continue exploring — so get him out of the DAMNED WHEELCHAIR and keep him as a major player in future movies!!!!
I don’t think years would have passed–my money is on weeks or months. The new AOS timeline is such that Kirk is getting what would have been Pike’s first five year mission–so the new timeline, Kirk takes command in 2258, and Robert April and Chris Pike never commanded Enterprise for a shakedown cruise of 5 year deep space missions. The timeline is accelerated so everything’s been moved up 8 years. No Farragut posting for Kirk, no Enterprise command for Pike.
As for Pike being in the wheelchair, since his injuries were wholly different from Pike Prime (and may have been weak legs relating to lack of spinal fluid, rather than actual permanent spinal damage and full paralysis) I don’t think it’s permanent. At least, I hope not. He may have been in the wheelchair for the ceremony only because he was still recuperating from his injuries (in-universe explanation), and for the (fannish “Easter Egg” explanation) visual callback to Pike Prime’s fate in “The Menagerie”.
#521 “so get him out of the DAMNED WHEELCHAIR and keep him as a major player in future movies!!!!”\
My thoughts exactly. Pike felt the most like what I expect from Star Trek.
#518 – “#516—”I wasn’t 100% sure they’d actually done that. It could have been that that particular scene jump really did move things forward. The movie’s a bit unclear on that point, and in one interview, Bob Orci said that it was deliberately so. ”
I don’t recall that interview, but I’ll take your word for it, Alex. I’m not sure what the benefit of ambiguity would be in that scene. It seems very likely that, if the filmmakers had wished that to be conveyed, something like “2265″ would have appeared in the corner of the screen.”
In general, I agee with you. I’m just trying to give them every possible amount of wiggle-room to get out of one of what I felt was one of the more idiotic conceits in the film…the cadet-to-captain-in-one-shot thing.
I don’t recall the exact date of the interview, but I remember them saying they’d left it just open enough for some varying interpretations.
#520 – “As for the Enterprise, I don’t know why anyone is complaining. We all knew there would be a few changes, but if anyone feels so beholden to the old design, they should be grateful that SO FEW changes were actually made. I mean, if they duplicated the model from the television show, we’d be complaining about that for certain – as is, it’s a nice compromise of the TV show’s design and Star Trek: The Motion Picture’s.”
I had a few aesthetic nitpicks, but in general I was willing to go with the ship as detailed and portrayed on the screen, one comparable to the original and TMP versions, even if not identical.
“As for its size, why is that an issue? I’d think bigger would be better if only for the fact that it’d be more realistic.”
So to be realistic, a thing has to be huge? Sorry, I’m not buyin’ that. I gotta tell you, those ships are pretty immense, even at their original size. I’ve blueprinted some interiors of Trek ships, and they have a *lot* of space!
To me, it does make a difference, because so much of how we perceived Trek’s world was built on such things as how big the ship was, because, in turn, that was our first window into that world beyond a few of the characters. Moreover, from the point-of-view of someone who came to see the ship as “one of the characters”, keeping it consistent is at least as important as keeping the humanoid characters consistent, and making it ten or more times larger by volume just doesn’t do that.
Of course, there’s also the fact that the vast majority of the design details, as we see ‘em in the film, don’t support a supersized ship, anyway, and it’s not even like the story depended on such a thing.
“The only thing I’m concerned about is how in the world (literally) they got the Enterprise off of the Iowa fields and into space. The only way I can think of is that some big space barge utilized a massive tractor beam to pull it up the way wrecked ships are sometimes pulled up from the bottom of the sea.”
Pretty much. Big industrial antigravs and tractor beams would make lifting the ship relatively straightforward. The more complicated issue is why have the ship fully-assembled on the ground in the first place, ’cause a lot of buttressing would be required to hold up heavy things like the primary hull and engines. It would have made more sense to see the components being built on the ground and then final assembly on orbit, but oh, well…
522 et. al. I really like your posts, Tara, they’re spot on.
511 / 520 I totally agree with the characterization of Kirk as “intelligent, but inexperienced”. He WILL have to suffer (but not necessarily by losing family members).
Just once I want to see the crew accepting the old “The needs of the many …”-rule, regardless of the pain this may bring. Especially from TNG on it was always: “Even if the captain ordered us not to, we have rescue him at all costs!! … Oops, there goes a planet with a billion sentient beings on it! But we saved the captain and 2 redshirts – we won the day after all!”
Kirk should be forced to make really hard decisions, like his father before him. (And maybe even realize that the opposite of a “no win-scenario” isn’t necessarily a “win it all-scenario”). The person he has to sacrifice or abandon could even be Pike.
There would be the additional bonus that Kirk would loose the slightly annoying “I’m great, I’m cute, all women want me” attitude faster (he’s almost 30, not in high school).
McCoy taking center stage in the next movie is a great idea. Urban is nearly perfect as Bones without copying Kelley.
I have no problem with the Iowa shipyard. After all, ships are initially built on land. After launching, they are towed by strong tug boats to the place (mostly a pier) where construction is completed. So: Several tug shuttles (with very strong tractor beams). Orbital dock.
Maybe we’ll get to see the launching of the Enterprise-A in the 5th or 6th movie …
And to get a little fannish here: I have rationalized how Gaila could have survived! When the Enterprise drops out of warp at Vulcan, there is half a saucer section floating in space. As segments of starships can be automatically sealed off from each other (and have independent emergency life support), there could have been survivors in it, including Gaila. Yay! (The “sealed segments” construction is a) logical and b) described in the TNG Technical Manual).
525. Gul B. wrote: Kirk should be forced to make really hard decisions, like his father before him. …The person he has to sacrifice or abandon could even be Pike.
Please let it be Chekov.
_
#510: “But delivering an ending that will satisfy the mass audience, even if it ticks off a tiny handful of die-hard fans is not the mark of a crappy script.”
I agree entirely, and I’ve never suggested otherwise that I can recall.
I just want to see KLINGONS in the next movie.
IMO it’s a no-brainer for the next movie to feature the Klingons as villains. I know that, typically, the expectation in a Star Trek movie they have to save the planet Earth — but that hasn’t been the case in many of the movies.
I don’t really care. I just want another movie!!! I mean, I care about the quality but I think these guys are smart and will do well whether they rehash some older villains or plotlines or start something completely new. Either way, engage damn it, engage!!!
I want the sequel to the prequel to be more character driven with occasional amazing action sequences like in STXI. I went back to watching TOS episodes this week and really like the slower pace like TOS for the serious or comical dialogue sequences.
Definitely develop the Kirk & Spock relationship with a side of McCoy. The story should be meaty so all the main cast can get involved, developing their friendships and working relationships along with getting involved in some alien culture. I agree that Kirk should make mistakes as part of the learning curve for his new responsiblities. He is really young to be Captain.
As much as I loved the really fast pace of STXI (I’ve seen it 13 times), I want the next movie to be deeper and a bit slower. I want to feel what these characters are going through as they grow into being the finest crew as well as ship in the fleet. They are a gorgeous cast and they all deserve to get their moments to really shine. Thank you Orci & Kurtzman for not only the birth of James Tiberius Kirk but for the rebirth of Star Trek.
I know Khan is not a particularly popular option for a sequel among Trek fans, however I think it would open up great possibilities for some footage of the eugenics wars/ launch of the Botany Bay etc. Good story arch leading to its discovery by kirk. And Chekov will be in it this time!
I would like to see the crew looking for a way to “restore” the time line and accidentally open the mirror universe. I think that would be an interesting movie. maybe Khan is a good guy there.
I see a introduction to the Kligons
Some tie into the events from Enterprise series
I also see that we are still in the period before the TOS series
#532: I think we haven’t explored *this* alternative universe enough, to immediately introduce another one in the form of the AOS Mirror Universe. As for the infamous ‘reset button’ of old, I’d rather see the AOS timeline continue on its merry way, with no-one attempting to change it ‘back’ to the Prime universe.
That said, I wouldn’t be opposed to elements from the Prime universe continuing to show up–be it the Cardassians, Tholians, Organians, etc. But I want to see new stories, rather than AOS versions of TOS stories. It needs to evolve in its own direction, not unlike how the Mirror Universe evolved over time, as each spin-off series had their own Mirror Universe episodes, culminating in the cracktastically awesome ENT entry which introduced Empress Hoshi (it may be my all-time fave Mirror story, after the original).
As for the Klingons… their fleet was if not completely wiped out (I mean, seriously, 47 ships), it was nearly wiped out. Tho one does wonder, if the Narada crew were in prison for 20 years, how was their ship not taken apart and reverse engineered by the Klingon Empire? And what does that say for the Klingon/Romulan Alliance?
I mean, if there would be new film with the Klingons as bad guys, this would seriously tip the balance of power in their favour because the future-tech would still be a serious threat.
(I’d hate to see the Narada storyline dragged out over another film, but it could be an inetresting element to explore, someday.)