Orci & Kurtzman Talk Star Trek Sequel (and the one after that too) June 20, 2009
by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Orci/Kurtzman, Star Trek sequel (2012) , trackback
Next weekend Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen opens and Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman will likely have their second hit of the season. The pair are doing a lot of press, including a press conference on Friday, and of course they are getting Star Trek sequel questions. Below are excerpts on the latest from the writers on the next Trek
Bob and Alex sill debating – talked connecting next two movies
At the press conference Orci was quoted (by HitFix) stating:
We literally have not started to break story yet. We are just getting through all this ['Transformers' press] and then figuring out what we are doing next. We have had one ten-minute conversation the other day, but that is it.
But apparently they did cover some ground in that 10 minute convo. Collider also talked to the pair at the event and they said Paramount wanted to make the film "as soon as possible" and they were debating the two kinds of possible plots, specifically Orci stated
exploration sci-fi plot where the unknown and nature itself is somehow an adversary or the villain model. That’s an active discussion we’re having right now. In terms of thinking about more than one movie, we want the movie to be self-contained in a way, but we’re discussing the idea of having a couple of threads where if the second movie works, you could pick up into a cohesive whole.
Specifically Orci cited the example of Spock giving his katra to McCoy in Star Trek II and how that paid off in Star Trek III.
Star Trek II katra download leading to Star Trek III upload inspires Orci & Kutrzman to think long term
To Khan or not to Khan
Orci also talked to our friend Ed Gross who has an audio clip up at ComicBookMovie, who asked him specifically about Khan, with Bob noting it is "obviously tempting" to use Khan again, and noted what a great villain he is, in the same pantheon as Darth Vader. However, Bob also noted that there are risks of going back to Khan saying they are "of two minds" and asked "why take the chance?"
The Boys of Summer? – KO Envy?
With writing credits on Star Trek and Transformers 2, plus exec producer credits on this weekend’s The Proposal, Bob and Alex are having a big summer. Today on the popular industry blog Nikki Finke’s Deadline Hollywood, there is a post called "I Feel Your Pain Over Orci & Kurtzman" Apparently the boys ability to get more work than can be listed is causing some to get a little green. From the blog:
We all know that Hollywood envies others’ success. So if Michael Bay can have a Hate Club, maybe Alex Kurtzman and Bob Orci should, too. That’s because, whenever I mention their names to bigtime screenwriters and producers who can’t get anything going now, a lot of teeth-gnashing and profanity-spewing ensues.
You know you have made it, when they form the hate club.
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Comments»
Klingon Warriors, we need Klingon Warriors. We are better than any Romulan.
Xindi, we need Xindi. We are better than any Klingon.
I think Khan should be left to R.I.P. Lets not “new age” the great Khan with another actor.
It doesn’t need to be done.
How about Roberto and Alex make their own great villan. Chances like that don’t come along every day.
It can be done without remaking an original.
The villain model is WAY overplayed in Star Trek. And so are the Klingons, in my humble opinion. I’d be truly excited to see an adventure plot that revolved around the exploration nature of the mission, which never got its fare shake in any of the movies to date.
I would strongly prefer a female villian that is somthing you dont see very often and would fitt in Star Trek context of female power very well. Alls for the next film i would like to see a what would have been story. Maby somthing like a political vacum caused by the disposal of Vulcans, a race that woulndnt have caused any problems in the normal timeline, but now becase of the changies that happend they do they, eg Andorians.
But in the case of Trek everybody seems to like the movies with the strong villains. Khan, the Borg Queen. That’s the mistake McG made with T4. He took the face of the enemy away. Everybody remembers the T-800, the T-1000 and the Terminatrix T-X. But in the new movie the enemy consists only of faceless machines.
On the other side, if they are able to make a movie in the style of “The Undiscovered Country”, I would be more than happy.
4.
“The villain model is WAY overplayed in Star Trek. And so are the Klingons, in my humble opinion. I’d be truly excited to see an adventure plot that revolved around the exploration nature of the mission, which never got its fare shake in any of the movies to date.”
Agreed 100%.
Let the “mission” continue.
I am all for not having an adversary. That is probably the most overdone storyline in ST movies, even more so than time travel.
How about a nice juicy moral dilemma?
No Kahn in the next movie.
Space seed was a good episode but I don’t think it’s movie material and you couldn’t do the Revenge thing from TWOK without the 15 years of being marooned to build Kahn into the Vengeful, obsessed man he became. The power of the story would be lost and to take the story in a completely other direction would (to quote Spock) A waste of good material.
It sounds really interesting to not have a villain who is a person. Some kind of catastrophe that should be averted would be more interesting. With the standard villain-model we all know what will happen: villain will freak out and die at the end – boring.
But we also need William Shatner as resurrected old Prime Kirk in the movie :)
WHATEVER YOU DO -
DO IT LIKE BATMAN DARK KNIGHT –
LIKE Heath Ledger JOKER
I so much want to see cardassians.. they are the best enemey ever seen in any movie or tv show!
I don’t like what they’ve done with Trek, but I don’t mind the job they’ve done with Transformers, until I see what “Revenge” will be like that is, hopefully there is a better story than the first as well. If you guys do a “Trans 3″ You need to do two things, Unicron!!, and Dinobots!! or the Deal’s off.
Dear #13;
FIne. You don’t like their “Trek”.
Now that you know what their vision is, then don’t go to see the next two movies. This way, I can enjoy them in peace and not have some idiot sit there and critique it.
Because that’s annoying. That and Cell Phones ruin a movie viewing experience.
No Khan! please.
Let’s explore some for awhile… although it would be tempting to do a story that would force the writers to resolve the alternate timeline issue… perhaps the fabric of the universe is unraveling because of the damage inflicted by Nero’s incursion? just a thought.
As to a villain in TREK 2.2, let’s have a lesbian psychopathic drag Borg Queen…. that’d be truly different… and a good example of where no man has gone before. –smirk–
I jest (sorry, just I couldn’t resist– but probably should have– sorry Anthony)!!!
BUT on a serious note… I really am looking forward to Transformers 2!
New story – new villians – with a few klingons for seasoning.
Dont retread old stories please!
Unfortunately, it is singularly difficult to combine epic adventure/action with a moral dilemma, and expect a summer tentpole blockbuster to be successful. Most people go to see these films for the ‘go-bang!’ escapist experience, not to think.
An amusing idea would be to have the feds go to war based on BS justifications (ala the US war in Iraq), and Kirk would take on the role of conscientious objector and side with the Klingons. Of course, this wouldn’t be amusing to some, and it would hit too close at home for others.
Drama requires adversarial relationships, either in the person of an antagonist, or in the template of tragedy. Reading the blurbish comment from the writers, it would seem that they are thinking along these terms of using a environmental “unknown or natural” pretext as the bringer of conflict, which could set up for a nice tragedy…which could then be the ‘hook’ for ST2013’s plot.
Pure exploration films are sadly overlooked. Case in point: this is the 40th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon-landing…and do you see any films coming out commemorating that profound achievement of exploration? In the history of humankind’s exploration, the Apollo effort certainly is one of the ‘blockbuster of blockbusters’. As the 12th century Crusaders looked upon the Hagia Sophia and asked themselves “how the f**k did they do that, because we certainly can’t”, the 60s space program is as equally out of the reach of the 20oughts.
To put Apollo 11 into a Trek film idea: The E is sent to the Small Magellenic Cloud on an exercise of pure exploration, with only enough dilithium to get there. 500 light years away, they realize that they have enough fuel to maintain warp for 501 light years, so they have to pick a system that had dilithium. They chose a system and barely make it, with about 20 secs of warp power left. The environment is so hospitable that survival is impossible with current technology. Over a five year period, they have to *invent* the technology to survive long enough to obtain the dilithium they need to return to Alpha Quadrant. (end of Apollo 11 fictional analogy). (Begin fiction here) Successfully refueled, on the return trip they encounter a hitherto unknown spatial anomaly or ‘physics’ which makes their return unlikely. In order to make it, they have to create a temporal wormhole that they will fly the E through, one that will hopefully convert the E into a 27th century Starfleet vessel, so they can survive the anomaly and return home. Once they get back in Alpha, they are met by Klingons, who have a conniption in reaction to the ‘Enterprise-M’ type starship (ala Kelvin/Iowa reacting to Narada). So the gang has to decide whether to destroy the ship (and the collected data of their exploration) in order to preserve something or other, or fight the Klingons using advanced weaponry. What to do?
And that’s when Q (William Shatner in a comic cameo role) shows up to throw a wrench in their return trip…
Okay, that’s a bit lame, but it illustrates a point. Who cares about the work that goes into exploration when the fun stuff (blowing things up) juices the adrenaline more. I expect the writers to come up with a script a 100x better than the one I just suggested, and it would be nice if they could strike a balance between drama and action without using a TOS veteran as the espouser/expositor of the MacGuffins.
Uh-oh, I’m doing what millions of Trek fans have done: create my own wannabe episode. Laugh on, the Trek continues!
Here’s my pitch, Anthony, feel free to delete if you don’t want it here:
The movie opens with the Enterprise as part of a Federation convoy (3-4 ships) taking Vulcans to their new colony. Suddenly, an ambush! A Romulan fleet squadron (one large ship and two smaller ones) attacks! A battle ensues. A Federation “aircraft carrier”, USS Intrepid, much larger than Enterprise is dramatically destroyed. It was commanded by Admiral Pike, killed in front of Kirk’s very eyes. For Kirk, it is like losing his father a second time. The Romulans are victorious. The Enterprise and the surviving Federation ships are at their mercy. Only the impending arrival of Federation reinforcements stops the impending slaughter. The Romulans vessels kidnap some Vulcan elders (including Sarek), and warp away, all except for a small Romulan scoutship which was itself damaged in the attack.
Federation reinforcements arrive and quickly warp off in pursuit, all except for crippled Enterprise. This is the Hunt for Red October. The loss of USS Intrepid was traumatic for Starfleet, equal to the loss of HMS Hood to the Royal Navy. The Neutral Zone is the North Atlantic. Every Starfleet vessel is hunting for the cloaked Romulan vessel, the flagship/Red October/Bismarck of the enemy fleet. A transmission from Admiral Nogura provides some exposition. The Romulan Commander is a legend, he has the reputation of a Romulan Marco Ramius or Captain Picard. He is cold, calculating and competent, like the Romulans in TNG “The Defector” or TOS “Balance of Terror.” A consummate professional, he is driven by a sense of duty. Once upon a time, he singlehandedly tied down the Federation fleet in the Laurentian System.
While performing its own repairs, Enterprise dispatches an away team to the heavily damaged Romulan vessel. The ship is a wreak. McCoy gets to say, “He’s dead, Jim.” Onboard, the away team finds Saavik! She was one of the captured Vulcan prisoners. She has never met Spock. If she looks closer to the crew’s age . . . well, we were never told what her age was in Wrath of Khan, and Vulcans have long lifespans. Immediately, there is sexual tension between her and Spock, centering around the fact that Saavik is a Vulcan female. To love a human is not logical, not when the survival of the Vulcan race is at stake. Drama follows between Spock and Uhura.
With Saavik’s help and information from the Romulan ship, the crew discovers what they were after: a weapon of infinite power created by an ancient race of “Space Atlanteans.” Their empire existed before Surak, and stretched over all of is now both Federation and Romulan space. Like the Greeks with incomplete knowledge of the Atlantis, the Vulcan elders captured by the Romulans have information vital to finding the secret location of the ancient Space Atlantean capital. While the rest of the fleet is on a wild goose chase, believing this Ramius is trying to escape across the Neutral Zone, the Enterprise becomes USS Dallas. Saavik reveals that he is actually headed for an uninhabited planet in Federation space that holds another clue about the Atlanteans.
The Enterprise arrives at its destination, but the Romulans are waiting. Kirk is beaten again! Turns out that Saavik is (in this alternate timeline) a half Vulcan/half Romulan double agent, and has led them into a trap! Her “rescue” from the derelict Romulan ship was staged so that she could steal some information from the Enterprise computers about the location of the ancient weapon. The second encounter was staged to provide her a means of escape. She kidnaps Spock when she is beamed aboard the Romulan vessel.
But Kirk and Spock already knew that Saavik was a double agent, and allowed her to escape. Uhura speaks all 3 dialects of Romulan. This isn’t revealed to the audience until after the battle takes place, but there are clues littered earlier in the movie. The Enterprise was only playing dead. And even though the Romulan ship is cloaked, Spock is broadcasting a hidden signal that allows the Enterprise to track them.
Spock is now a hostage aboard the Romulan ship. The sexual chemistry between Saavik and Spock continues (think TOS “The Enterprise Incident”). In this alternate timeline, Saavik is like Juliet when she had Jack locked in a shark tank at the beginning of season 3 of LOST. Nice one minute, will beat the crap out of you the next.
The Romulans go the capital of Space Atlantis, a remote planet in the heart of the Neutral Zone. Spock, Sarek, Saavik and the Romulan Commander and some Romulan redshirts go down to the planet in a shuttle. It’s one of those planets where sensors and transporters don’t work.
The Enterprise arrives while they are on the surface. This time the Enterprise does the ambushing. Kirk invents the Picard maneuver, and scores a decisive victory. The battle is all the more dramatic because Kirk (and the audience) does not know that Spock is on the planet. When Kirk fires on the Romulan vessel, we think he killed Spock. Kirk takes an away team down to the planet via shuttle. This victory will be a hollow one if the Romulans get their hands on the Atlantean super weapon.
They land in a ruined alien city. It’s a spectacular sight, revealed as they descend through the clouds of the atmosphere. Kirk and company catch up with the Romulans. With Spock’s help, they overpower most of the Romulans, except for the Romulan Commander, who escapes. There’s some hand to hand combat, Kirk vs the Romulan Commander, Kirk is pretty angry about Pike’s death, but shows mercy in victory. Lucky for him, because once this concludes the planet unveils its secret . . .
There is no Space Atlantis super weapon. The Atlanteans never went extinct, they’re still alive and here! They had simply moved on to “the next phase of their evolution” (Spock’s explanation in Star Trek I) and are omnipotent. They have no use for empire, and have retreated to this planet to explore the universe with their minds. They are far beyond this puny conflict between the Federation and the Romulans, but this alien incursion forces them to to intervene. Had Kirk killed the Romulan, these aliens would have annihilated the human race, but because Kirk showed mercy, they decide that there is hope for humanity after all. Instead, they will eliminate the Romulans. But Kirk saves the Romulan race by pleading for mercy (TOS “Arena”). The Atlanteans impose a truce like the Organians (at least within their system, TOS “Errand of Mercy”) and send everyone on their way.
The movie ends on a positive note. A Romulan fleet is defeated by the Federation fleet off screen and the Romulans sue for peace. The Romulan Commander is replaced by a subordinate who earlier in the film, expressed skepticism about this entire endeavor. Kirk communicates with this man over the view screen. This new Romulan commander was both humbled by the Atlanteans and impressed by Kirk’s mercy on the planet below. He thanks Kirk, smiles and says “one day” (TNG “The Chase”).
Space, the Final Frontier . . . the Enterprise Warps away.
11.
You hit the nail on the head there my friend! That’s exactly what the writers should be looking at doing.
Star Trek 2 needs no villain!
If it absolutely has to have a villain, said villain should be Q!
I’ll repeat myself for the heck of it…
Would love to see: A plot loosely based on a Horatio Hornblower episode called “The Wrong War,” in which the young officer (who was an inspiration for Roddenberry’s Kirk) gets stuck in a bad alliance with the French, only to see the whole thing blow up because of the nasty policies (guillotines for everyone!) of said French. It would be great to see the basis for Kirk’s long admiration/hatred of the Klingons. It would also be great to see a truly 3D Klingon.. NOT Krug! More like Kor.
Klingons please
#11, 19: but, but, but I don’t think the Joke (or Batman, for that matter) belong in a “Star Trek” movie. I mean look at the “X-Men/Star Trek” crossover.. what a piece of Star Wreck that was!
um, I realize you were probably using a TDK as a metaphor… okay, this not being able to sleep until all hours of the morning is really getting old (I never seem to be able to sleep before 6-7 a.m. anymore–ugh!)
I vote for the “exploration sci-fi plot where the unknown and nature itself is somehow an adversary.” This type of plot has never really been done in one of the films. Both V’Ger and the Whale Probe were constructed by some race, and all the other movies used the “villain model” (Khan, Kruge, Sybok/”God”, Chang, Soran, Borg Queen, Ru’Afo, Shinzon). I’d say we’re way overdue for an adversary that is NATURE itself. Of course, that doesn’t mean you can’t have living people as secondary villains. :)
Anything has to be better then what was put on the screen this time? It can’t get any worse can it?
I think if we suggest here or elsewhere, they’ll go out of their way to not do it that way, therefore, I’m willing to wait to see what they come up with. That is of course, unless they ask me directly :)
I think the sequel needs to be bigger and lead into a third installment – people might get bored especially a mainstream audience if it’s just a stand alone movie.
If you look at it the only stand alone movie in many a franchise is the first one: Iron Man and Pirates of the Caribbean are two examples of this.
I think the next one needs to have big ideas, cool ideas and Klingons, no Khan yet. A story that involves a lot of current day issues; terrorism, disease.
I really want to see how the destruction of Vulcan effects the federation and it’s enemy’s such as the Romulans as word spreads of how Vulcan came to be no more.
I want to see a big ass prelude to all out war and maybe have more than just the Enterprise – I liked how in the 1st film the Enterprise wasn’t the only ship sent to deal with the Vulcan emergency so I’d like to see something like that again.
either way i want to see Hot Toys have a license to make 12 inch figures. :P
At first i dont want to see any Borgs or Xindi in the next Movie. I would prefer a villian but not a tipical one maby another Captan with some new unexpected motives. Maybe a klassical first contact with a new unknown species or empire, which goes horible wrong
and also – Star Trek II needs to be The Dark Knight of Star Trek.
maybe one of Kirk’s friend’s like Garry Mitchell could make an appearance as someone who goes off the rails suggestive of the first TV pilot WNMHGB
Exploration, wonder, creative situations which expand our thinking and our horizons- That’s what makes Star Trek special and better than almost all other science fiction movies. A recycled villian story, such as Khan? How uninspiring and pedestrian. Mr. Orci and Mr. Kurtzman, please give us a story that at least attempts to convey the themes pertaining to why we became Star Trek fans in the first place.
Better to reach for the stars, even if you don’t do it perfectly, than “settle for an ordinary life.” Please at least try to give us “somethin’ special.”
Javier Bardem for Khan!
In other (and well-written) words:
“I dare you to do better.”
I think a wonderful villain for the sequel would be a ‘Panty Brat’ queen, who presides over a planet of genetically-engineered ‘Panty Brats’; that would be awesome…
How about no villain this time?
And no Khan, please. If ST needs to reiterate stories, *THAT* means ST is in fact DEAD.
Or maybe comandore Decker.?
But i would dislicke a story of a huge war with a huge enemy and somthing like that. People are getting tiered of this huge epical scale adventures. This can be seen in the second james bond a quantum of solace or the third spider man.
I would prefer a personal conflict, like Kirk and Uhura are stranded on a planet or somthing else and Spock as Captain of the Enterprise must decide if he wants to triy to safe or to sacrifice them in order tho avoid a konflikt, you know The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.
iIprefer a strong personal conflict!
Paramount shud team up with Fox and do Star Trek v A L I E N S
http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryRoom.asp?GSub=37499
That would be higly unlogical!
I’d love to sit in on the genesis of the new movie.
:::sigh::::
Around some brewskies and pizza. No better combination.
#14. Gummy
Oh I’m NOT going to watch anymore of their Star Trek Movies.
that way “I” don’t have to sit there with an Entire Theater Full of Idiots that would enjoy anymore Trek movies like this one.
Because it sucked.
Yes Gary seven or in other well written words
“to boldly go where no one has gone before”
No Villain would be a very serious problem… now that the Movie was THAT spectacular and even Non-Fans are liking it etc. you can’t turn 180° and say “Sorry… this time no action, just lame and boring “What is out there” Bla bla”
That would kill Star Trek again…
42- Agreed
One of these stubborn trekkies understands that Hollywood is unable to please everyone. It’s a miracle that Star Trek was so popular with both trekkies and non-fans, and some originally haters that I know. They can’t do a: “Lets go explore the edges of our universe and fight a one million year old space cloud that is Zeus and Abraham Lincoln, and Paul McCartney (who’s actually dead, those lunatics were right)! Come on kids it’ll be ‘exciting’.”
Because that would suck, be boring, make no money, be boring to make, be boring to act, be boring to write, be boring to see posters of, be boring to hear about, be boring to hear a list of what would be boring about it…
Get it.
I think one of the main characters should betray the crew and it’s captian only to be revealed at the end that he or she was doing something heroic! ;)
My main argument against reviving Khan is that Nero already was a poor man’s Khan. Stir-crazy villain with a hint of inner nobility, who, in the very end, goes to his death willingly? Check. Madness caused by natural disaster which led to death of wife? Check. Plotting revenge against Federation/ members of Enterprise crew because they didn’t prevent losses of life by said disaster? Check. Unhealthy habit of inserting psychotrophic insects into his victims’ body orifices? Check. Larger than life? Khan: yes. Nero: close, but not really. So, please no Khan.
I like the idea of Nature as opponent (”Apollo 13″ is one of my favorite films.). The problem (and the challenge) is that it can’t be phasered, can’t be punched, can’t be bullied or convinced by a rousing speech to give up and/or self-destruct. You have to endure natural conditions, adapt to them, find a way to “outthink” Nature. But Star Trek is an adventure-drama, so it needs, IMO, inter-personal conflict, too. On board the Enterprise we need to explore the relationsships further. The core crew needs to learn to work together (they had a good start in ST09). The rest of the crew would have to learn to respect Kirk as captain – they could even come close to mutiny until this happens! (Why not an opponent who is a former member of “Ensign Cupcake’s” gang – not as a “villain”, but someone who just doesn’t trust Kirk to do the job, and not entirely without reason? This could add a nice “Lower Decks” perspective to the story.)
Additionally, there could be a (seemingly) minor villain trying to constantly sabotage the efforts of the crew: a “Mudd” character (space pirate/ smuggler) or some Klingon or Cardassian renegades (”renegades” being the official version) – because without an outsider to do battle with the internal conflicts among the crew could become to much of a soap opera.
And when these conflicts are solved, then the real threat behind them should be revealed – a conspiracy, some major power trying to start a war or a major, Borg Queen-level, villain! And this should be the story of the last part of the trilogy – a confrontation on a scale the Enterprise couldn’t have handled without their experiences during Film #2.
@ 4. I agree. I really think they even said that they wanted to explore the unexplored in the next movie. So who knows…
I agree with 4. Eric et al. regarding exploration as a possible plot. Again, Star Trek IV is a good example of how it can be done in an engaging way, by focusing on the characters’ reactions to the situation and the related interplay.
One other option is to explore the intra-galactic politics of this alternate timeline given the aftermath of the events of this first movie. What is Vulcan’s role in the UFP now? It went from first friend of Earth to reluctant mentor figure in the ways of the galaxy to a society that found rebirth in its Surakian ways to ally in the Earth-Romulan War to founding member of the UFP to its current state.
The Romulans of this time probably still haven’t ventured back into Federation space, and who knows what the other empires are up to now?
A third option would be to have a rogue villain like a Harry Mudd or a Q or a Trelane. Someone who simply has good chemistry with the actors and characters but conflicts with the crew’s mission.
That you’re even considering option one is an excellent departure from past films.
Please DO NOT let these guys write the next movie. Like the current one it will be all style and absolutely not substance. They wouldn’t know a serious intelligent sci-fi plot if it bit them. I am sick of reviewers saying this is the best Trek movie ever. It’s not! it may look better than TMP, it may even be more entertaining than Voyage home, and as exciting as Wrath of Kahn. But it’s plot is nowhere as good or as intelligent as any of these. Why does this not seem to matter to anyone?
Abrams has made a Trek film for Star Wars fans. Fine JJ, go make Star Wars for Lucas, but leave our Trek alone!
how about…..The Deadly Years 2.0….cue Shater, Nimoy, Takei, etc….
It needs to be exploring strange new worlds, that is Trek! Villains and space battles are Star Wars and tired old hat.
“exploration sci-fi plot where the unknown and nature itself is somehow an adversary or the villain model. That’s an active discussion we’re having right now. In terms of thinking about more than one movie, we want the movie to be self-contained in a way, but we’re discussing the idea of having a couple of threads where if the second movie works, you could pick up into a cohesive whole.”
EXCELLENT!!!! Please, please, PLEASE go in this direction!!! It could still be an alien behind whatever situation the crew finds itself in…I just would like it to be one of those random alien races of the kind they ran into on TOS week in and week out (but aliens we’ve never seen before).
I think they should have the Doomsday machine and have a great battle and then find out where it came from and who built it and give us many surprises along the way and after the mega surprise and after the Big E is coming Home they come up on another ship. A Derelect. S.S. Botney Bay and we hear the Music and the Movie Ends. A Great way for the next Movie. In the Tos Ep Doomsday machine all we know is that it came from outside our Galexy and we know nothing of it or who made it or what it’s real purpose is other then to blow planets up and chop it to rubble and intake it for Fuel. But why and who launched it. i bet the Court can have a lot of fun and throw us a lot of incredable surprises and leave us gasping for more and then have the S.S Botney Bay come up at the end.
Or how about this. The Big E comes up on a world of Evil Tribbles hell bent on destroying the Galaxy. it takes the Entire Klingon and Federation fleet to stop them. Lol
Sybok Begins
just throwin it out there
Hopefully they’ll stay the “No Khan” course and chart some beginnings of the 5 year mission. Tell us why Kirk got a voyage that important, in the new context of him being so inexperienced. You can still have Romulans and Klingons hiding behind every nebula… even flesh out some unexploited TOS bad guys. Just more intelligent and scheming than Nero or Khan, who only had one dimension… that of vengeance. Star Trek nu2 needs Mark Leonard’s Romulan Commander, or General Chang. A loyal solider on an opposing side to Kirk’s explorer.
18.
I like this. You manage to capture the essence of exploration with star trek idealogy. You also allow for big budget battle sequences and character drama. It’s almost like a Indiana Jones adventure in space, factions searching for the great power, each with their own intentions and use of said technology., ie. Klingons/Romulans want it for power and weapons, Federation wants it to prevent shift in power/search for knowledge and Vulcans want it to help restore their home world.
They could do something like the Doomsday Machine. I think it would be cool if they found a massive alien weapon that destroys planets that Starfleet itself accidentally activated (Maybe a landing party from another ship finds it deactivated in space and makes it “wake up”)…and couldn’t stop until a lot of ships and planets were destroyed. That would make the dramatic effect far more potent….
Here’s what I have to say to the Supreme Court: There were a lot of people who doubted you when this project first began. First, there were complaints about a reboot, and then there complaints about this, and then there were complaints about that. What you did though, in the end, turned out a masterpiece. If the same level of creativity can be applied to the sequel as was to this movie, then I say do whatever you want to do. I look forward to seeing it in the theatres.
Since the movie is trying to recreate the qualities of the original series, look to that. The series was about exploration, there weren’t always Klingons or Romulans in every episode. I believe the statement is.. “To boldly go where no man has gone before!” So go explore and see what you can find!
No Khan.
No revenge-bent villains.
No time travel.
Exploration, please. If you use an established bad guy, Klingons, please. And make their leader (Kang, Kor, etc.) a Klingon who’s just doing his job.
#48. You are entittled to your opinion. But the rest of us hard core fans love the Movie and i thought it was the best trek Since Trek 2 and even better. orci and the court did a fantastic job on trek 09 and can’t wait for Trek 2011. It will be even better.
Hello, all.
I hope there is a story here on the transition of John Lesher and Brad Weston at Paramount, both of whom helmed Star Trek at Paramount. Both were allegedly asked to resign. Does this change things for Star Trek?
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i34e2ede5adb7e1e85dd94be7d5378f60
Am I nuts if I suggest that it’d be cool to see the Crew face some Lovecraftian Old Gods? Would be a nice contrast between the most optimistic sci-fi and the least optimistic sci-fi.
I love the movie, and look forward to more with this cast – and an energy and sense of fun and adventure Star Trek hasn’t had since the original crew!
Yes, I like depth with my ST, but it doesn’t have to hit me over the head. I am capable of understanding subtlety – as Orci and Kurtzman have shown they are more than capable of writing and JJ directing (I’m so hoping he comes back to direct!)
The cast is obviously well able to show these characters’ nuances and bring more to them.
All together, they show the optimism and vision that always made me love the ST universe.
So I will be at the sequels no matter what, fully expecting I’ll love what I see, whether it’s Khan or something new. (I’m perfectly happy to return to familiar ground, as long as its not cheapened the way “Enterprise” flattened everything that came before it.)
I’m happy that Star Trek is with us again and in good hands!
If we’re free to post sequel plot ideas here, I do have one. It’s below:
*Bring back the beagle (please?)
-Spock Prime helps to settle the Vulcan colony, then joins Admiral Pike, Ambassador Sarek, and the Federation in efforts to establish peace negotiations with Romulus
-Spock Prime has shared future technological development with the Federation because: 1.) Intelligence reports that Nero apparently already shared this information with the Romulans by way of a signal with an encrypted message that only Romulan vessels were equipped to decypher. 2.) Christopher Pike encourages the Federation to put Roosevelt’s “Big Stick” policies for diplomacy in to practice before meeting at the negotiation table.
-In the meantime, the V’tosh ka’tur show up on the scene. Their leader (Sybok?) takes notice of the society’s vulnerability and resulting instability while they try to find their footing after loosing everything. This group begins to slowly plant questions regarding the value of established tradition regarding logic into minds of those who are already inwardly angry, and feeds a hatred toward the Romulans. This ultimately leads some surviving vulcans to join the V’tosh ka’tur and form a terrorist group bent on destroying Romulus under the belief that if Nero and his cohorts will never be born, Vulcan would never have been destroyed.
-This results in the Enterprise being called in to apprehend or destroy these terrorists before things are made worse than they are, and treaty discussions fail
-This makes for a moral struggle for all vulcans
-Many angles of this make for emotional and moral struggles for both Spocks
-This opens an opportunity for the story to address the values of humility and forgiveness, as opposed to hatred and revenge
By the way, some people may not know the V’tosh ka’tur are. It’s all explained, below in the wikipedia reference. They are Vulcans who claim to have learned to exist without continually repressing their emotions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_(Star_Trek:_Enterprise)
#48-Always someone around to spew for the “I hate Kurtzman & Orci club”. Obviously, you are in the minority because this Star Trek is going to be the most attended, watched, and bought (on vdeo), and rented Trek movie of all time.
Frankly, I think it is brilliant and I am SO GLAD to have Kirk, Spock, Bones & company back. The REAL Star Trek is back, with all due respect to the other incarnations (and a little disrespect for one or two).
Last night I went to our local community theater which has been converted to a “movie theater” as well to see the movie again. I’d say the place was 75% full, with showings still to come on Saturday night, a matinee on Sunday and another showing Sunday night. The people openly showed enjoyment for the movie throughout…and they cheered and clapped at the end.
That was my 7th viewing of the movie and I still don’t even remotely get tired of it. It is just a fun and entertaining ride with many messages about humanity…if you really think it through. Sure, it doesn’t hit you on the head with a preachy message, but that is refreshing, too.
Wow great stuff Sarah!
I hope that Orci and Kurtzman are reading this by far now the best idea !!!
#62-Yeah, I saw that last night and it concerns me. However, we are talking about a movie that is probably going to be in the top 5 for 2009, so I doubt Paramount chiefs or any merger of the company is going to change the fact that there will be a sequel. How much they’ll be willing to spend? That could be the real thing to watch out for.
It kinda blows me away that they did this. Frankly, in the last 2 years, Paramount has made a LOT more movie money than they had in more recent years. I find it quite illogical.
Nero wasn’t working for me. Shinzon was worse.
I totally don’t like one super-villain out to destroy the galaxy. Too cheesy like the old James Bond films.
I totally like the dealing with the unknown and the human drama and dilemma thing. I think that is at the heart of Star Trek. That is what made FIRST CONTACT work. The friendship btwn Picard and Afrie Woodard’s character. And all the deep stuff about humanity that we were able to explore through the lens of that relationship.
That is what made that first ep of TOS work. Will Bones see through the illusion/seduction of the woman he thinks he loves, to save the day or no?
Kirk and Spock beam down to a planet of Amazon women dressed in corsets and bustiers. Amazon women all look like Megan Fox. Amazon women will not allow our heroes to leave. How do our intrepid heroes escape (or do they want to?)?
Ok. the Big E responds to a Distress call from the U.S.S Constalation in command by Commodore Decker.(Played by Tom Hanks) The Big E gets there and they see the Constalation in a Fight with a long coned shaped ship that Kirk calls the Doomsday Machine. Commadore Decker has beamed half of the crew to the 3rd planet but the Big E arrives and beams some of them to the ship before the machine destroyes the planet and kills over 11 crewman from the Constalation. Decker is just crushed and he orders Kirk to help in destrying the Machine. Kirk seeing that is not possible tells Decker that they can’t win and so they find a new way to fight the machine. But Decker is hell bent on destroyng the machine and tries to relieve Kirk and of corse Kirk and Spock won’t go quietly. the Machine all of a sudden warps away and it’s all the 2 star ships can do to keep up. Spock says that the machine is on corse for New Vulcan and they realise that that havt to find a way to stop the machine from reaching there or the last remaining Vulcanse will Die. Uhura gets comms back and they contact prime Spock and tells him what happened and prime Spock tells them how they can defeat the Machine. So they get the rest of the crew off the Constalation and they ram it down the Machines throt. But not before the Machine sends out a Subspace message to where ever it is it came from. Decker demands that Kirk and the Big E follow that message and find out where it came from but Kirk is just not willing to since the Big E has Sustanind some damage. But he relents and off they go. After a few days at High Warp they arrive at there destination and they are all Shocked at what they see. An old Space Ship called the S.S Botney Bay in command by Khan Who is aided by Dr Soong played by Brent Spiner The Ship is in orbit of a very old and dying planet whos inhabitants are long dead but have many high techonology still there and they are now in control..They also have 2 more Machines and Kirk and Spock and Decker havt to find a way to stop Soong and Khan from launching the next 2 planet Killers. But also on the way is a Fleet of Romulan Warbirds that have some of the advanced weapons from the Narada that Nero gave them and there on there way to see about the machines since thet were listning in on seeing what happened with the first doomsday machine and another fleet of klingon Ships are also on there way as well. But lurking near by is a entire new race that have never been heard of and they also want the machines. it is up to kirk and Spock and Decker to find away to stop khan and Soong and the rest or the entire galaxy will be in deep peril.
lorin hansburry
I’d much rather see a situation where a “moral decision” could be the villain.
The cookie cutter approach to having an actor wearing a “villain” nametag is a bit tired.
Bring back Nomad.
But, instead of “him” being a small floating machine, “he” could be a Chevy Nomad that is attacking a small deepspace outpost.
http://richardlewis.org/pictures/thumbs/images/chev/59chev/1959_Chevy_Nomad.jpg
Isn’t that scarry?????
Or, “he” could be a vicious dog that has the crew trapped in an isolated farm house.
See, there are plenty of ideas.
Dear Bob and Alex:
Sounds like a plan to me…I like the “force of nature” idea, it reminds me of the Star Trek Novel, “The Entropy Effect.” This novel hooked me and I loved every page. Check it out.
Oh, about the hate club, just do what you do best. You know how people act when you raise the bar for them to jump a little higher, they have to strive to do better. Complacency is never a good thing where an artful craft is involved! I am sure you both will do just fine.
Rest assured, we will all be here “camping” on TrekMovie to bounce ideas around as usual (serious Trekkers concerned with helping with feedback and perspectives on this end.) I am sure you guys will do fine!
Warm Regards,
Trekwebmaster
Hey Bob and Alex. I hope that some of our ideas here on Trek Movie can be usefull to you. But you are the pros and I as well as most others here on Trek Movie truly believe in you 2 and know that you will come up with a story that will blow us all away the way you did on the current one. Ignore the haters and go with your gut and we will all be well entertained.
In Star Trek XI, The E. never goes further than vulcan. Where are the strange new worlds, the new civilizations ??? I Hope that the second movie won’t forget this part of the Trek Myth.
There were also some interesting episodes about the Prime Directive in the second season of TOS… would’nt it be nice to think about that ?
The next film should be a “coming of age” story. Kirk is a new captain. While he proved he has the skills to excel in the first film, he is young and inexperienced. That, in and of itself, could provide a great baseline plot. Kirk should face a galactic unknown, be forced into a no-win scenario and then, with great effort and sacrifice, find a way to win. In the the process we get to see him mature into the competent captain we know and love. The human adventure of a young starship captain coming of age and a no-win exploration based crisis (perhaps with emphasis on the prime directive?) would be great drama. NO more revenge obsessed villains out to destroy humanity and NO retreading of a TOS episode, please!
No Kahn in the next movie please.
I’d also be truly excited to see an adventure plot that revolved around the exploration nature of the mission etc
77: These ideas on this board are just ideas. I don’t think anybody really expects for these folks to use their idea in full, but these are great ideas for more ideas to grow from. In any case. I agree with you. I believe they went with their gut last time, and turned out a great movie. I look forward to the next one, no matter what the plot is. I just hope the haters will quiet down at about that point.
And please, no TIME TRAVEL!
I would like to congratulate Bob and Alex on their wild success. I don’t know if it’s enough to get me into see The Proposal… we’ll see……
Has anyone ever explored the idea of using the transporter as a villain or a tool other than what’s already been done? What if someone started using transporters to enslave whole groups of people (cloning them if you will, building armies, etc.?)
@79 and 80:
I like both of your ideas! No more evil villians and definitely no Khan. I hope the writers keep the pace of the last movie but with elements of exploration and perhaps some political intrigue included to keep things interesting.
Why can’t it be a space exploration story with a villain in it?
Also, I agree with 11 on the Khan thing. I remember how pissed people were about Heath Ledger taking over such an iconic role as the Joker. “He’ll never be as good as Nicholson!” they cried. We all know how that turned out.
Swing for the fences, boys!
I assume the next movie will feature Kirk and Crew embarking on their first 5 year mission. It would be interesting to see the destinations and tasks Kirk receives from Starfleet Command.
EXPLORE, SUPPLY, CREW ROTATION, MYSTERY, CHALLENGE, CONFRONTATION, THINKING, ACCEPTANCE OR SURVIVAL, RESOLUTION, SOLUTION, LIMITED KNOWLEDGE, DOUBT, LOGIC, CONCLUSION, RESOLUTION, ISOLATION, TEMPORARILY UKNOWN.
Fascinating!!!
Trekwebmaster
People said the Movie Titanic would flop. They said Dark Night was a mistake. They said Harry Potter would not catch on. They Said Trek was dead. Those same people are saying do it there way or Trek will Die. To quote Spock in Trek 6. To hell with those orders. Bob and Alex. Do it your way and go for the Grand Slam. We all know what happened to Titanic and Potter and Dark Night and of corse Trek 09. They were mega Blockbusters.
Why couldn’t a “thing” or “phenomena” be a villian of sorts? V’GER was that sort of villian, cold and logical, the audience didn’t connect emotionially with it, but when ILIA was introduced as the “probe,” suddenly there was a new facet to the “villian,” especially when she would have flashes of her “real self” in the programmed data patterns, but would suddenly squash the audience connection when she reverted to being logical and cold again.
I loved how Persis Khambatta’s eyes showed this, you could literally see it in her facial expressions, but mostly in the eyes!
You don’t necessarily need a person or alien to portray something villainous.
Trekwebmaster
If nature is to be our enemy, then what better force of nature than Q.
“In a different reality, I could have called you friend”.
This brings up so many possibilities… but it would HAVE to be done right.
Kahn is really inconsequential. Right now in the alternate universe Kahn and crew is on the Botany Bay in stasis. A good joke would be to see the ship and just pass it by…
Also, lets not forget historic events. We are still about 6 years prior to the original 5 yr mission. (As an aside, Vulcan is destroyed, so Tuvak probably will never be born). George Kirk Jr. may not have to die (if he is not dead already). All that really needs to happen is the V’ger probe in the 2270’s and the Whale probe in 2286. Both of those probes take place irregardless of the time change. Unless Nero somehow destroyed those in the missing 25 years….
Well, at least it won’t be difficult to have a stronger adversary than Nero in the next movie. Plus, with all the credibility straining “year-one” nonsense out of the way I might actually enjoy this one.
Hypothetical interview for McCoy’s admission to Starfleet Academy:
“I see that you’ve gone through 4 years of college at Ole Miss, 4 years of medical school, a year of internship and a few years of residency. Now that’s not enough training for Starfleet. We need you to go the Academy for 4 years because although you’re already a physician, well frankly, Jim Kirk needs a buddy.”
Oh if I might add…it would be nice to have Gary Mitchell return and live. A great addition to the existing crew. Kind of Kirkesk…. a great character for Kirk to get into trouble with….
Most of the ideas I have read here have been “mash-ups” of previous TOS episodes or movies….CLICHE…the universe is “new and wild.”
Seriously, after all of the hard work done with the “reboot,” why waste time redoing an older TOS or TMP storyline?
If the story can be done from a MAJOR TOS / TMP+ episode or film, make it unique, even to have a few things which are the same makes it CLICHE. We don’t want cliche!
INNOVATE and THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX!
Keep the thinking cap on!
Trekwebmaster
A big vote for exploration. Seek out strange new … stuff.
There was a moment in the ST:Ent 3rd season, in which the ship really felt like it was going somewhere new, and there was a tingly feeling of anticipation … something is out there, long-range sensors can’t say what it is. It could be anything!
That cool feeling was a staple of the old TOS. Of course, you watch the shows over and over again and the surprise is long gone, but some may remember that feeling as a kid, when you really didn’t know what kind of weird thing would be discovered next. JJ likes puzzles, right?
Enough with the Star Wars comparisons boys.
And you’ve already skewed off the time line and away from what we all know so don’t bother messing with a Khan story line. Leave that alone. Maybe visit Ron Tracy.
Looking at the comments here, we all have our own idea of what we want to see in the next movie. As I will say until I am green in the face, I want Jolene Blalock to play T’Pring….
…however, there is no story going to make us all happy (any more apparently that ST09 did, since it has some vocal detractors) and we need to be careful not to get hung up on what we want, and make sure we see the next film as what it is. Though I want the exploration piece with some man versus nature, I recognize that kind of story is better suited to small screen story telling, and usually does not make a successful film. If they go with the villain motif (and I vote against Khan) I may not have gotten my desires fulfilled, but I do hope it is a well written well produced villain-motif film.
I guess I am just saying, let’s see what they can do. They impressed this old-time Trekker with the first one, I am on board for another. Time to see if the first was a fluke!
Oh, and Jolene Blalock as T’Pring will guarantee my support. Just sayin’.
I think there is one of the elements that would make a shipboard storyline suck is being stuck on the ship for too long. Another would be something only hinted at and which was never done, like blowing the explosive bolts on the saucer section or any major damage done to the ship which seriously affected survival or ability to get back to home-base, I know you can always replace a dilithium crystal, but what about an entire necelle?
TNG did the saucer-sep but wouldn’t you have rather seen that on the TMP ship? I have always wondered about how that would have looked. By no means use that example, I am bouncing ideas around of things I thought were cool or could have added dramatic elements.
There is so much we have to work with, I am surely glad for the room the reboot gives us.
Here’s to the “wild and new” universe!!!
Trekwebmaster
Hmm Tpring and Uhurha in a cat fight. Hmmm.
Come on. Leave Khan be, Boborci! For now, anyway. You need to show respect to Montalban.
Khan belongs to the ages. Plus, Montalban owns the role. Absolutely owns it. Vader? You can get a Disney employee to get into costume and play that guy, but only ONE MAN can play Khan.
And he’s dead. Leave Khan be, for now. The Botany Bay is out there somewhere. You don’t need to bring him back until the climactic film of the series: THAT’S when you bring back Khan-and you get the best actor you can to play him.
To 98, Weerd1:
Did you mean as Jolene Blalock as T’Pol?
It would be cool to see a story line or two from Enterprise, since it would appear to that it is part of this time line (unless something else has happened earlier in the timeline to change all that). I’d like to find out who the future guy is.
I must respond to some of your thoughts above. I am a huge purist and I loved the movie. It is an alternate timeline …. Certain things must take place in the future because they are part of a chain of events that happened irregardless of what Nero did in federations space. The universe is huge. Yes there are ripple effects, but I would think that those changes would be localized.
As Orci said, “the universe wants to correct itself!”
Let me just get this out of the way: No Khan, no Shatner in any way, no time travel, no revenge-seeking villain. They’ve all had their moments in the spotlight; it’s time to move on.
I think it would be fascinating to see how Vulcan’s loss affects the balance of power in the galaxy. Vulcan was a founding member world of the UFP; its loss should have far-reaching consequences. That incident, combined with the loss of several of Starfleet’s vessels and hundreds of cadets and officers at the hands of Nero, would give the enemies of the Federation incentive to strike while the iron’s hot. Maybe the Klingons would see that time as a golden opportunity to strike.
Or, would it even have to be the Klingons? What if a brand new enemy force came onto the scene, having silently observed and seeing the right moment for their siege? A race so fierce, so ruthless, so dark and ominous in their efficiency that the Federation wouldn’t know how to handle it?
I think the new movie needs a big name actor to guest star in the next one. Someone along the lines of Tom Hanks or Denzel Washigton. That would be huge to this franchise and the next logical step in my opinion.
to 103:
I like that story line a lot.
I’d like to see…
THE BORG
THE BORG
THE BORG
THE BORG
THE BORG
THE BORG
THE BORG
THE BORG
The timeline has changed and it’s now possible. Also Khan could be brought back and brought back well. I have total faith in this team.
In the article it was stated about a possible story: “exploration sci-fi plot where the unknown and nature itself is somehow an adversary or the villain model”. I rather like this idea even though I would love to see an untold story w/ the Klingons (still pushing for Kang myself).
I do think though Khan should be left alone.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again NO KHAN REMAKE. The original was a great adventure. Leave it that way!
As I also said before, you guys are making a butt load of money–come up with an original idea–I know you guys are capable of it!
#40. The Last Whatever…
You must be one o’ those jealous screenwriters Nikki Finke was writing about… The overwhelming popularity of Trek 09 would tend to disprove your rather shallow remark that the movie “sucked.”
#107, I agree, Khan should be left alone.
This last movie was great, but now they need to make a movie about what Star Trek is really about. “Our ongoing mission, to explore strange new worlds.” They need to get back to the exploration aspect of Star Trek. If they continue to pump out villians one after another who’s goal is to destroy the Federation and only the crew of the Enterprise can stop them, then that gets old.
“That’s because, whenever I mention their names to bigtime screenwriters and producers who can’t get anything going now, a lot of teeth-gnashing and profanity-spewing ensues.”
Well, not only that, bu also because they can’t write either.
Who’s to say they would even be in the same part of the galaxy to detect the Botany Bay? What if some other ship picked it up and Kirk heard about it in normal Federation chatter. That would be interesting even though he would never pursue Khan or even have any real feelings about it….kind of like how McCoy liked Spock when he first met him and Kirk didn’t.
I like Capt. Mike’s idea of the next movie ending with the Enterprise coming across the Botany Bay, the way “Batman Begins” ended with Gordon showing Batman the calling card from a new nutcase calling himself The Joker. That doesn’t mean the third movie has to be about Khan (we already know how that story ends), but it would be an “oh, cool!” moment to end Trek XII.
Trek XII should have a topical subject matter and a sprinkling of familar names (Gary Mitchell, Carol Marcus, Matt Decker, what-have-you) and it probably does need a villain… Paramount will never green-light another Trek movie where the enemy is a cloud. :-)
A natural phenomenon and a villain can work in the same movie… it almost worked in “Generations”. That movie really needed one more re-write but Paramount demanded it be ready for Thanksgiving ‘94, so we got Chekov saying McCoy’s lines, Data turning into a cowardly fool, and other travesties. But the basic premise of “Generations” was actually pretty interesting.
I think that they need to comment directly on the Shatner issue early and often. If they are not going to use him, please say so by the time the script is done at Christmas. Likewise, if they are going to use him, please say so by the time the script is done at Christmas.
What happened in the last movie was handled very poorly. I understand the need for secrecy, but given how passionate the fanbase is on the Shatner issue, please don’t put us through that “will they are won’t they” crap again–especially when you know well in advance.
I am 100 percent in favor of seeing Shatner in the next movie, preferably with Nimoy. A great plot that could follow the current movie exists and Orci and Kurtzman certainly know how to write that story.
It’s a question of whether they want to. If they do, I would be the first on line to see it. If they don’t, just say so. I may not be the first on line, and I will be disappointed, but at least there won’t be the same bitterness I had with this movie because of what I felt was a mistreatment of both Shatner, and the Shatner fans.
Honesty. It’s a good thing even if it isn’t good news.
LEAVE KHAN ALONE.
Don’t screw with perfection!!
Well i think not that the klingons will be in the next film because they know look like the tos klingons again. if you noticed in the rura penthe shot the klingons where hidden under a mask. i dont know how much Orci and Kurtzman care about the canon. But i think that woulndt be a wise dession to simple do the old films again because old trekkies wouldnt go to the cinema if and maybe “normal” people either. I would prefer the Gorn the would target the taste of the average and Trekkies would enzjoy too see them again.
But why should the villian shouldnt be Human, a Human bad politcs who try because of a crisis to the transform the Federation in some sort of dictator ship. I always thougth that star trek was best if it refers tho current developments.
I still say Paramount needs to slow their roll with the release of the next film. I say 2012 is a better release year than 2011. I know Paramount is trying to capatilize on the success of ST09 but I think with the release of the DVD later this year it will still be fresh on the mind of fans into 2010.
I just don’t want them to rush into the next with some half-assed rush script. I say have fans drooling for the next film and 2012 would be perfect IMO.
.
Take a really good TOS episode and add to it.
Elaan of Troyius could be a good example. Here the enterprise is sent to mediate all the while the klingons are in the background trying to screw stuff up. Next thing you know Kirk is lured into love with Elaan, while the klingons start their mock attact runs, Kirk almost orders the attack just barely realizing in time they are not going to attack. Kirk’s understanding of klingon tactics improves and he comes up with a plan.
The sabotage of the enterprise fails but they pretend it did to figure out what exactly the klingons position is.
If T’Pring will be in the next film, I think they should cast Kristen Kreuk (Lana Lang in Smallville).
Others have mentioned it, but I wanted to chime in – “Doomsday Machine” has no villain.
It has a “thing”, and Decker’s opposition provides dilemma, but there’s no tooth-gnashing villain.
If the next film were something like that, I’d be all for it.
http://geektrek.today.com/
how bout angry shatner from nexus gets pissed and tries do destroy everything because Chris pine is better then him
Star trek 2 or whatever they call, it will not happen to soon because Abrams is busy with Mission Impossible 4.
What ever story of the new film will need two things
A Class well nown akto, oh i would love to see Jack Nicholson as a badass Romulan Empor, and time. Hopfully Paramount had learnt the lession of Star Trek: First Contact and Insurrection
Jack Nicholson?! I can totally see it! LOL!
Let’s see a big scale conflict on an intergalactic level!! The Alpha & Beta Quadrants on the brink of war…….Tensions between the Federation and Klingons. Throw in some Romulans, Cardassians, and other major powers in the quadrant.
Let it fly with that big budget!!!
Actually 10-20 years ago, I could easily see Nicholson as Matt Decker….
“I don’t recognise your authority to releave me!”
“Your bluffing.”
OK I’ve got it:
We open with a distant shot of the Nexus, then the movie proceeds through the final 20 minutes of Generations to get the audience up to speed (this also has the advantage of sparing the budget). Right before Kirk’s death, Crewman Daniels appears and whisks him back to the 22nd century to help fight in the Temporal Cold War against Future Guy. But something goes wrong! Daniels head explodes Remmick-style, and Shatner-Kirk ends up stranded in the alternate timeline 23rd century on Rigel X, a desert planet in orbit of Earth. We’re now about 90 minutes into the movie. The nuEnterprise detects Kirk’s lifesigns, picks him up, and takes him to the nearest subspace anomaly where he can return back in time to fist-fight Future Guy to death. In a brilliant twist, we never actually find out who Future Guy really is but it’s hinted that he could be a vengeful Romulan. In the climactic battle, a Bird of Prey explodes, something audiences never tire of seeing.
I’ll expect my consulting contract in the mail any day now, thanks guys!
Let’s see the Enterprise out in deep, deep space, months away from any subspace communication from Starfleet. Bring back that feeling from the series that the ship is on a patrol/exploration mission and is so far out there that they are on their own…
Space is too busy in the 24th century. In the 23rd let’s see the Enterprise take care of itself all alone and test the crew in solving the problems set before them.
It would be interesting to see if they could evoke some of this feeling from the original series.
What if, in this new timeline, the Botany Bay is discovered by someone else other than the crew of the Enterprise?
4 words –
The Guardian of Forever.
how about Prime Kirk as the arch-villain? ;)
come on, it’d give the Shatman one last hurrah… and I don’t see him turning down something like that.
it’d be a history-making, world-shaking smash. it’d really, really, REALLY piss the old-timers off (except yours truly) but they’ll see it… oh, they’ll come see it… over and over.
mission accomplished. :p
come on, Bob and Alex, do it! ;)
The problem is….there will probably only be 2 more films with this crew. AND there is sooooo much to fit in, it’s an impossible task that I don’t envy.
128:
“Let’s see the Enterprise out in deep, deep space, months away from any subspace communication from Starfleet. Bring back that feeling from the series that the ship is on a patrol/exploration mission and is so far out there that they are on their own…”
No Star Trek series ever evoked that feeling for me. We knew the ship was on an exploratory mission simply because we’re told so during the opening credits. However, almost all the missions were assignments or chance encounters. Even ‘First contact” missions such as “The Apple” and “Mirror, Mirror” were Federation assignments for mineral rights and dilithium crystal trade, respectively.
The “exploration of space” thing is a metaphor. Exploration of humanity’s possibilities was always the real theme throughout all the series.
You know what they should do? Bring in the BORG!!! That will have the community reeling in their seats!!
Yeah…I was joking, no Borg please. Though I’d like to see Klingons (not as the main story..maybe a subplot), and an original story! (I know I said either original or not a fewdays ago…but I’ve been converted ;] ) But what I really want is something that makes me excited while I’m in the film, but keeps me thinking after the film. One of those deeper lessons that really make us think about what’s going on today, like the original series!
#130—”4 words –
The Guardian of Forever.”
6 words—
Harlan Ellison… Not going to happen. :)
to 132, MORN SPEAKS:
When LOST is over, JJ and crew are gonna do Star Trek….it won’t be over…. Its just beginning…..
I can only hope…..since LOST is the best TV show ever…
Here are some ideas:
Romulans are great, but keep them in context. Perhaps further explore the Romulan/Klingon alliance, which was a largely unexplored plot device during TOS.
I’d like to see the Iconians, simply because they have that strange interporter technology, and they were sort of explored early in TNG but abandoned, so very little is known about them.
I’d really like it for the E to become trapped in the (mirror, mirror) universe, giving an opportunity for us to see a bearded Zachary Quinto and an evil Capt/Adm Pike. Confused, they unwittingly go to Terra and are taken prisoner, where it is learned that Nero’s “Red Matter” time-hopping has left the fabric of the multiverse dangerously thin in a number of places. The mirror universe crew poses as the ST09 crew in order to infiltrate their timeline. The crew eventually escapes– while they themselves are prisoners, their exact duplicates are starfleet officers with high security clearance. Scotty, Chekov and Uhura devise a way to contact their counterparts in our “prime” universe, and give them the coordinates of the black hole that opens onto a multitude of different timelines, including their own. The original enterprise (which is commanded by Capt. Pike and sports an updated, but faithful TOS design) and the uss farragut break through and intercept the ST09 Ent, and though outmatched, manage to defeat them. The farragut is carrying a crew of green cadets, including Kirk, and both ships are heavily damaged, resulting in Pike nearly being killed. The Farragut has to be abandoned and its crew rescued by Ent Prime. Using their mirror counterparts’ tactic, Kirk commands a mission back to Terra, where they rescue the ST09 crew, returning the mirror crew to terra. Big emotional moment when the two crews meet and say their thanks and goodbyes. That’s all I got for now. Pay up and I’ll wirte you a script.
NO KHAN !!!!!!!
Roberto and Alex,
Do not have Khan in the next film.
Come on, another Star Trek 2 with Khan….
Think outside the Box, guys.
How about William Shatner as a hell bend, battle-torn Mirror Kirk that travels alternative universes to find and kill the Kirk who turned Mirror Spock against him in Mirror, Mirror.
ohhhh i got it!! The Botany Bay is found by the Borg.. and turns Khan into a superBorg.. hell bent on destraying Earth when the run into Kirk!
LoL…. JUST KIDDING…. I’d like a new adventure. Yes, some nods to the original still with refernces and characters.. but an orginal idea again.
I don’t mean this as offensive to anyone, really, but I think all you guys who want these “high concept” stories for the next Trek movie need a reality check.
Like it or not, movies have to be “BIG” and “WOW” and “BAM” these days to be a summer tentpole film. If you want Trek to go back to being a “meh” December release franchise, then yeah…do a “nature against itself” type of story.
I loved the new Trek movie and don’t think there’s anything they did wrong. It was stellar and they need to just do whatever they think is right. I have faith in Orci, Kurtzman, JJ, etc.
A film adaptation of the Star Trek novel “The Rings of Tautee” would for example be cool. It is about a catastrophe which a not so advance race accidentally caused and which destroys most of their solar system and their race. It also threaten to destroy the whole universe. There are also Klingons but although they are the enemies, they even help to prevent the destruction of the universe in the end. And there is also a discussion about the Prime Directive. All in all I think that book would make a good movie. The destroyed planets would look good on a big screen. It has Klingons which aren’t your typically barbarians and also morally problems. So in short a lot of action with a few morally problems and messages throw in. And there isn’t a real typically villain in sight which is the best of it because I think villain stories were made often enough in Star Trek movies.
I don’t care what you guys do, I’m content with the first movie, but please include Klingons. Seriously, that was a big disappointment for myself and many others. They have been so important to the Star Trek story and for you to include Romulans and Vulcans, but no Klingons doesn’t sit right.
Orci and Kurtzman deserve to be envied. If you can make Transformers into an actual Plot you deserve to get paid a ton. And have work. Let’s just say I definitely didn’t go see Transformers for the plot and I was pleasantly surprised.
No Need to have another Khan! The last film opened doors so the writers could tell new stories, why do that, to go back? Pointless. Something new, fresh and exciting continued please.
Dear Robert and Alex;
Please don’t indulge any of our understandably wet appetites to see a modern spin on the doomsday machine, Khan, Klingons, or Borg or whatever has come to pass in the last 40 years. You have cleverly wiped the slate clean. As a creative person myself I understand how that big blank page can sometimes be a little daunting, especially when you’re surrounded by a gaggle of Trekkies offering their advice. Be strong, and don’t lean on past glories, stand alone. Take a tip from Michelangelo who said: “I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free”
The perfect Star Trek story is already out there waiting for you to set it free. All you have to do is open your minds, work hard, and believe you will find it.
And remember those immortal words…”To explore strange new worlds”
#133—Yeah. The notion that Star Trek should “get back” to being about exploration is flawed, to say the least.
Nearly every episode involves the Enterprise being dispatched to investigate something (often the disappearance of another ship or person/persons), ferry passengers, act as a diplomatic force, etc. Rarely are the characters doing any genuine exploring.
Let’s look at the first ten episodes of TOS, just as a sample:
“The Man Trap”: The Enterprise is sent to provide supplies and perform a routine checkup on Dr. Crater and his wife on planet M-113.
“Charlie X”: The Enterprise is ordered to pick up Charlie Evans from a small survey ship and transport him to a nearby Federation colony.
“Where No Man Has Gone Before”: The Enterprise is responding to a distress signal.
“The Naked Time”: The Enterprise is sent to observe the disintegration of a planet.
“The Enemy Within”: The Enterprise is on what Captain Kirk calls a ’specimen gathering mission’.
“Mudd’s Women”: The Enterprise is in pursuit of an unregistered vessel.
“What Are Little Girls Made Of?”: The Enterprise is tasked with investigating the fate of a scientist and his team not heard from in five years.
“Miri”: The Enterprise is again responding to a distress signal.
“Dagger Of The Mind”: The Enterprise is on another supply mission, this time to a penal colony.
“The Corbomite Maneuver”: The Enterprise is actually charged with mapping an unexplored region of space!
So, to recap the first ten adventures depicted in TOS—we have two instances of the Enterprise acting as a cargo ship, one in which she is a taxi, two responses to distress calls, two purely scientific missions, and two police/investigative actions—all before the Enterprise is finally charged with exploring an unknown region of space in a single instance. In other words, after 10 episodes, TOS is 10% exploration and 90% something else.
My question is how many years before the 5 year mission are these movies and in this alternate timeline will there even be a 5 year mission especially with a good part of the fleet destroyed by Nero at Vulcan?
Someone else in a post a few weeks ago stated that after a trilogy of new movies are made it should at the beginning of the (first?) 5 year mission so if that’s the case this would be too early for Khan, The Doomsday Machine, or any of the TOS stuff.
The writers should come up with a new problem or adversary, something we have not seen before.
Maybe the new Trek crew crash land a shuttle on a mysterious Lost planet with a giant three toe statue worshipped by a group called the others and have to fight off Cloverfield monsters while awaiting John Locke, I mean Admiral Pressman to rescue them with a phase cloaked starship that can pass thru planets? I could be a update of Galileo Seven.
#137—”Perhaps further explore the Romulan/Klingon alliance, which was a largely unexplored plot device during TOS.”
Actually, it wasn’t a “plot device” at all. It is merely a fanon notion derived from a single line of dialogue in ‘The Enterprise Incident’—–”Intelligence reports Romulans using Klingon design.”
Nothing in that bit of dialogue actually supports the notion that there was any sort of alliance between the two empires. The Chinese were no particular “allies” of the Soviet Union, yet they illegally copied many of its weapons and aircraft designs for much of the second half of the 20th Century.
I think espionage and theft is far more likely amongst the two than any alliance.
142. EFFeX – June 20, 2009
I don’t care what you guys do, I’m content with the first movie, but please include Klingons.
—————————————————————
I know!
How about William Shatner as a hell bend, battle-torn Mirror Kirk that travels alternative universes to find and kill the Kirk who turned Mirror Spock against him in Mirror, Mirror. The Mirror Kirk crashes on a JJ-verse Klingon world and meets some JJ-verse Klingons. The Mirror Kirk teams up with the JJ-verse Klingons who have had some run-ins with Chris Pine’s Kirk and Hate him.
We’re hated!!!
I like to thank my mother and God.
145. SPOCKBOY – June 20, 2009
Are you trying reverse psychology on us?
#150—-Don’t sell yourself short. Damn the humility! You should say, “I would like to thank myself, without whom none of this hate would be possible.” :)
48
Speak for yourself because you damn sure don’t speak for all of us.
No Khan
No other revenge driven madman villain
Yes please to the idea of something related to exploring strange new worlds
No Klingons, Romulans, or Borg
Yes to Shat if not cheap or forced
Keep it fun and funny again!!!
152. Closettrekker – June 20, 2009
LOL!
Khan is too soon. Maybe at the very end on the next film show the derelict sleeper ship as a teaze going into the credits. Then for Trek III we can do Space Seed with a juiced up Javier Bardim as Khan.
Next film I want to see some unknown Twilight Zoney Cosmic Menace like a Vger or Space Madness or maybey even the neferious Bailey entity
#154—”Yes to Shat if not cheap or forced”
I think that pretty much kills it….
150
Bob…don’t listen to those haters. You helped bring Star Trek back to life. Most the of the haters couldn’t write a decent birthday card let alone a summer blockbuster. Kudos to you sir!
#155—I’m here all week, and available for parties…
159
Cool…my niece’s birthday is coming up in a couple of months. What are your rates.
Bob, you should find a way to bring in a double red alert. :-P
133-disagree. there are a number of time the Enterprise is in trouble, and sending an SOS back to Starfleet would take weeks. That happened a lot on the old show. TNG not so much, but that’s what the poster said so…
128—Agreed. I think that would merge well with the tone they’re established in the last film. It’s hard to stay realistic AND show space filled with a clutter of star ships.
G*d damn I wish we had a spellchecker or editor function on these posts!!!!
Uh oh,.. Orci’s here time to watch me P’s and Q’s. Don Orci, what do you think of my brilliant idea above
and how about a remake of White Heat directed by Marty, starring Mickey Rourke as Cody. You and Alex get to writing. Period piece but this time set it 1941 instead of 1949.
62. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar – June 20, 2009
We actually considered an after credits moment of the Botany Bay floating in space, but thought better of it!
150–hey, you’re writing star trek now dude,
Its should read: “i’d like to thank my mother and…the preservers.” Or you could thank those “seeding” people from “the chase”.
#14 Capital punishment should be used on people who use their cell phone during a movie. Seriously, theatres should be signal free zones and ushers should escort anyone out with the audacity to have a cell phone out during a movie.
Herr Orci
Gotta do it in the next one.
And a period Scorsece remake of White Heat must get done. Maybe followed by an updated Angel’s with Dirty Faces. I’d like to see you boys work with a Marty or Ridley. Now get to writing!! Top of the world!!
There are many good ideas here, I liked #18’s idea, but minor flaws, Admiral Archer in the Time of Kirk, that would place him like Mc Coy in the first episode of TNG, Mc Coy as he is wondered at Lt. Data’s knowledge of his 137 years of age, might be a little to old to Captain a Star Ship at (guessing) 142 years old.
Then the part of Battles, the reason it gets attention is the actions are based deep in any brain newer than a Reptilians brain. It gathers more attention that what Star Trek is meant to be aimed at, the Human frontal lobes. If you do not know what those are, it is where Humanity thinks and creates. With out them we would still be in the trees with bananas.
The Undiscovered Country while very active also had much to think about in it’s content. It even has a friend of mine (his personal name and the character name he played slips me mind right now (I could just go in the other room and look at his autographed STM #6 photo to recall his name, or even read the signature, but he played a Klingon Squad leader with some but not big script parts).
I would love an intellectual plot for the next story line, but will not complain if it is one aimed at the Reptilian brain, even better if the two could mix but not not be dominate.
I’m sure the future in space will not all be roses and will involve some death, be it via mechanical or aliens is the big question. But if we do not use our Brains what we drive out there and where we drive will kill us quicker yhan a Phaser ever could.
I still like the idea of a future movie pointing out the weaknesses that we have but do not seem to notice daily. Some thing along the lines of what Darwin pointed out with his Evolution Therum, dependency on one (i.e. government/star fleet) will weaken us, but being able to do it for yourself means survival not extinction.
I think it’s possible to combine the combat story with the exploration story. Look at Master and Commander – there are battles between the ships, but the movie is just as much about the fact that the ship is a fragile micro-society in which various human and natural forces are in constant tension with one another. If anything, I’d say that this exposure to the humanity of the crew causes the viewers to empathize in a way that dramatically increases the effectiveness of the relatively few combat scenes. I’m not saying that ST11 should remake Master and Commander, but I would suggest that the villain story can coexist with (and be enhanced by) the exploratory story.
I would also humbly suggest that the movie embrace time and distance as elements of space travel. The mystique of the ship captain comes in part from his discretionary authority. I think that is weakened somewhat when we have instant subspace comms and (apparently) instant warp travel.
#163—”We actually considered an after credits moment of the Botany Bay floating in space, but thought better of it!”
Good call.
I would say that might have boxed you guys in a bit.
I hope that if the decision is eventually made to revisit Khan, it is another starship which initially picks up the sleeper ship. This way, Khan and his followers could win control of that starship and fulfill what they consider to be their destiny, but ultimately be dealt with by Kirk and the Enterprise. But (as tempting as it is to bring back “Khaaaaaaan!”)please consider putting something like that off until the third film (hopefully you and Alex will still be aboard then), and use this opportunity (the second installment) to produce a completely original story.
Hook ‘em, Bob.
102- nope, I mean Jolene Blalock as T’Pring. She’d be age appropriate and let’s face it Sarek is going to want Spock marrying Vulcan…
120- I can’t stand Lana! Jolene must be T’Pring!
Hi boborci- ball’s in your court, let’s see what you guys got! My vote’s for something new… except of course the T’Pring part ;)
I’m going to see White Heat at the Brattle in just a few hours! Good movie, but I gotta love the trailer for “Each Dawn I Die” better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ2bvo5S6Y4
“Two sticks of human dynamite thrown into a man-made inferno!”
171
Awesome!! Tonight for me it’s either Petrified Forest or Little Caesar
This Warner Gangster Film Boxed (vol1) set is F-ing amazing!!
Know My try
First Scene
A remote Astroid Field
Comodore Decker on the Bridge of the Uss Constitution, on screen a Romolan Konsul (Jack Nicholson). Decker screems “You will never get trough with this”!. The Konsul loughs, it has alrady starterd the alliance is contracted, the days of the Fedaration is over, the lordship of the Empires has begun. Cut
The Astroid Field
The Constitution tries to escape and made somebreth manovers trough the Astroids but suddenly countless Romulan and Klingon birds of Preys declocing, the Constetution is hit by a overwelming number of Desruptorsand torpedos, she explods
The Konsul grins and turns around in his Chear. A joung Klingon Female becoming vissible (Jessica Alba, who wears the decent make up of the Tos Klingons) She sais Jou will take kare of the Federation and i will take care of this Capiain called Kirk, Kappla!
Cut
The Delta Insiga Apiers the Star Trek theme is Playing
Enterplis is flying at warp speed trouhg the space.
The Voice of Kirk is herable:”Captians log subplemantal the enterprise is comissiond to investigate the dissapierience of the Uss Constitution……
Any Feedback is very welcome especily if Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman are Reding this ;)
Mmmmm,…
Yikes
#18 – mynameisgorn – The movie opens with the Enterprise as part of a Federation convoy (3-4 ships) taking Vulcans to their new colony. Suddenly, an ambush! A Romulan fleet squadron (one large ship and two smaller ones) attacks! A battle ensues.
I love your entire synopsis. It was great! Loved the Saavik angle also. So what of Spock and Uhura? This would make a great ST book.
#172;
They’re BOTH great but Petrified Forest is amazingly good. Bogart’s big break into stardom doing a sort of a John Dillinger type character. Bette Davis and Leslie Howard are fantastic. I loved little Caesar too but the some of the acting is hilariously bad. Pay close attention to the cop who’s after Edward G Robinson (and the way he talks) Robinson is awesome though.
Oh…and……Star Trek rocks!
;)
Some poster on another thread suggested the best way to get Shatner involved. The best i’ve heard so far:
Have William Shatner play Tiberius Kirk, the grandfather mentioned in the films teaser. Not sure where you’d put him, but if you have to have Shat, that’s the way to go i think.
#4- I agree totally. Lets get back to exploration and stop with the bad guys all the time. What ever happened to “explore new worlds, to seek out…and boldly go where no man (or script) has gone before”.
Hey Bob Orci. If you havt to got to an Tos Ep. Then do it wih the Doomsday Machine. Oh ok. You are the Pro. use your Imagination and let it go.
Heres an Idea. How about Anthony Pascale be the Bad guy bent on takeing over the universe and it takes the Big E to find him and stop him from Destroying the Earth. Lol
#178—”Lets get back to exploration and stop with the bad guys all the time. What ever happened to ‘explore new worlds, to seek out…and boldly go where no man (or script) has gone before’. ”
See posts #133 and #146.
It is a myth that Star Trek was ever really doing that to begin with. As AJ pointed out, the only reason we know that this is the primary mission of the Enterprise is because William Shatner says so before the opening credits in a given episode. We certainly wouldn’t think that if all we had to go on is the stories actually told in The Original Series.
#48. Agent 194
I know how you feel
#181—-Really? Just how is ST09 any less intelligent than its predecessor films?
The Human Condition:
—-The psychological significance to a young man of a paternal relationship (regardless of whether or not the father is alive or dead) is explored through both of the story’s two main characters.
Social Commentary:
—-We also see the blatant racism depicted in Vulcan society in its treatment of Spock, and that arrogant bigotry is only mildly toned down (in the form of underhanded praise) in the council scene as compared to the Vulcan equivalent of the schoolyard playground. Indeed, Spock’s biracial heritage is perhaps even more socially significant today than it was 43 years ago—particularly given that such a large portion of the population (including the US President) now deals with similar cultural issues in their lives.
Philosophy:
—-Add to that the philosophical ground covered in the fatalistic/deterministic manner in which certain events and relationships in the story are almost naturally predestined, and I would say that this film gives the audience more than enough to chew on besides a couple of hours worth of action.
Just what was so “intelligent” about the earlier Star Trek movies, really?
They had themes, sure, but I’m at a loss with the notion that they were somehow more intellectual or thought-provoking. The truth is—they were always things which are quite obvious anyway, and ultimately spelled out for the audience within the dialogue.
I think that ST09 holds up quite well in comparison.
#71. Denise de Arman
Brilliant!!
Absolutely, fantastic.
and seconded!!
oh and Uhura should attempt to rescue them but after beaming down is captured and um…
180–
I have no idea what you guys are talking about. How is exploration in trek a “myth”? If you are referring to the fact that often the E would visit a planet that had already been visited before, yea that happened a lot. But there are more than a handful of eps featuring a planet or alien creature as yet unknown to the federation.
It’s not a myth if it happened.
well i guess it can be turned into a myth.
173. tiberius1000
you spell funny.
#184—The point is simply that the overwhelming majority of stories told in the Original Series had nothing to do with exploration. Remove the opening Shatner soliloquy from each episode, and you wouldn’t even know that was the primary mission of the Enterprise—since 90% of the time, that wasn’t even what they were doing.
#135. Never mind that The Guardian of Forever does not conform to Orci’s application of MWI QM which he says he will never stray from as long as he’s on the team. Ellison notwithstanding.
#188—Or the fact that Lindelof has already stated that they are finished with the element of time travel, as it has already served its purpose.
BORG TRIBBLES! Through replication and assimilation, they could conceivably overrun the galaxy with the span of a two-hour movie!
No, seriously….
MIRROR UNIVERSE. The best villains are always the heroes’ evil twins. And the actors will love the writers for the chance to chew the scenery.
YES! Let them EXPLORE again!
187-
Again, confused. And it seems like we’re dealing with a difference in subjective viewing experiences (only explanation so far). It’s almost a discussion of semantics.
In almost every episode something new was discovered, even if it was on a planet already visited by humans or starfleet or the federation. Take Devil in the dark for instance. or Taste of Armageddon or What little girls are made of. The E wasn’t the first to arrive, but in all cases, they were the first to learn and bring back vital info on the culture, or type of life of the planet.
187- Tha majority of episodes?- then even more the reason to not reuse the same tired idea. Im not saying to not have a protagonist or someone who puts the E crew in jepardy, just no more villians and space battles. If I want to watch space ships battle it out all the time, I’d be watching Star Wars non stop.
In general I hope they don’t take any cues from the ST:III trilogy unless they want to experience a similar falloff at the box office. For fans, TSFS offered a nice little transitional movie, for a general audience it really didn’t fill in enough blanks, you really needed to be invested in the character of Spock vis-a-vis the previous film or TOS, whereas the final chapter: TVH was a stand-alone movie. In a lot of ways it was like the Back to the Future trilogy in which the 2nd installment was unavoidable to tell the story, but left the audiences flat. TSFS in hindsight seems much more like a nod to the fans than a real movie.
Certainly a few threads can be continued from one movie to the next, but assuming they are only doing a two film arc, to do something on the scale of Kahn and TSFS with a massive cliffhanger and the need to recap is to potentially leave some extremely unsatisfying feelings with the audience. Not to mention, there’s no guarantee they will be back for the conclusion, especially with all the executive shuffling and talk of mergers over at Paramount, nor if the studio would want to continue the story cycle should they not return.
#192—”In almost every episode something new was discovered…”
But in almost every episode, that was not the reason for being there to begin with.
In “The Devil In The Dark”—the Enterprise is responding to a distress signal (once again).
In “A Taste Of Armageddon”—the Enterprise is on a diplomatic mission.
And in “What Are Little Girls Made Of?”—the Enterprise is investigating the loss of contact with a science team.
#182. Closettrekker
how about Kirk making a gun with his Hand and shooting noises like a little kid
during the Kobayashi Maru test. That’s certainly what I envisioned when it was Mention in ST II.
there’s no Philosophy in this. like “Stupid Kirk” stupidly says “Either We go down or They do.” and that’s it. Oh and Spock the supposedly “Enlightened Guy” on the crew says….”Oh sure Fu&% it!!”
when Kirk was a kid in the Car scene, why did we have to see that? they didn’t do anything else with that area of his life…..it could have been removed from the movie entirely and not had an impact on it. we know how “Rebellious” he is during the bar fight.
Nero God, what a dumb character, is bent on revenge for losing his planet…Spock tried to help them!!!! but gets sucked back in time, okay so now your planet is still there, but it’s 150 years in the past…..okay so why didn’t they play up the whole “we’ll never see our families the way the were again” angle instead of “You Not save our planet, We say You try and Destroy it, we gonna destroy your planet”
I can see now why the writers wanted to Destroy Vulcan, there’s no logic in this movie, there was no logic making this movie and that’s how they seem to like it, cheers
186. Captain Cameron goes Berserk!!
Yes! sorry i know English is not my first language and am to lazy to double check it, but what did you think of my story?
92,
“Irregardless” is not a word.
#193—-” then even more the reason to not reuse the same tired idea.”
That isn’t the notion to which I was initially responding. What I am questioning is the notion that an exploration story would constitute “getting back” to anything, since that was never really where even a strong minority of stories in TOS (or the original films, for that matter) placed the characters to begin with (a mission of exploration).
I *liked* the new movie (ranking it just under ST2:TWOK and ST4:TVH). However, this movie got the maximum time and attention from the studio and creative team, as there was great pressure not to fail and destroy a valuable, proven franchise.
I think everyone involved (especially the writers) were forced to play at the top of their game. Meaning that this is the best they can do.
When you see “Transformers” again, or it’s sequel this week, keep in mind that these are the SAME writers, performing at probably their typical level. Presumably the level of talent and effort that we would see applied to a Trek sequel.
In the words of Captain Pike – I challenge you to do better. And the person I am challenging is the director and producer, JJ Abrams.
It is up to him to force the next script to be STELLAR. Not “good”, not “clever”, not “exciting”,but all of those things… PLUS Intelligent, Inspiring, Heroic and Nostalgic.
I like Giacchino a lot… but the score fell flat. I think Orci and Kurtzman need to go work permanently for Michael Bay.
Note that I am not bitching about the way Bones parts his hair, or pipes in the Engine Room or other such obnoxious nerdery. I am worried about the heart, brains, and soul of the next movie.
I want the next movie to win an Oscar, be the top grossing Trek movie, and replace TWOK in our hearts as “the best”. I won’t be satisfied with it just being another come-and-go summer hit, or outperforming Transformers 2 or Crystal Skull or Superman Returns.
JJ – either upgrade the talent or demand that they perform at an all-new level.
#199 – I would support this notion:
Ultimately, how does one do a simple exploratory episode on the big screen? Why would Paramount allow a script to come to fruition that did not at least feature a similar formula to this one that saved Trek and performed so well? Any new film must have an abundance of action, both terrestrial and space, with lots of explosions and a fast moving storyline. By definition, exploration is a very slow thing. A biographic film about the very compelling story of Admiral Byrd going to the South Pole doesn’t need the VFX budget of Trek, so doesn’t need to make as much money or be as exciting to be made. Trek does.
Even in the series, very few of Trek’s episodes were built around a purely exploratory mission. Of those that were, none of them rank in the top favorites that come to mind. In fact most of those considered in the top 10 deal with the key characters conducting diplomatic assignments or other “distress” related events. Of all the episodes on the lists, “The Enemy WIthin” comes the closest and an exploration that results in dramatic consequences. But those events are hardly exciting enough for a $150 million film.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Original_Series#Best_episodes
Of the episodes that specifically dealt with exploration, I’d start it with this list, none of which are particularly feature film material, at least not in the vein of Trek:
WNHGB
Enemy WIthin
Corbomite
Shore Leave
Galileo 7
Archons
Who mourns For Adonis
The Apple
Catspaw
Immunity Syndrome
Return To Tomorrow
By Any Other Name
Omega Glory
Paradise Syndrome
Spectre of the Gun
Plato’s Stepchildren
Wink of an Eye
That Which Survives
Savage Curtain
The point is, of those episode which involve purely exploratory missions, like The Apple, the stories tend to involve very little Summer Blockbuster action, which is why the Trek films almost always involve something as major as the destruction of the Earth or some other civilization. Perhaps that’s why ST V failed – there was a never a threat dramatic enough to drive or sustain the events of the movie.
The Apple may come the closest as not only is the landing party in jeopardy, but so is the Enterprise as well as the civilization itself and there’s a fair amount of action for TOS. But who really wants to see The Apple retold?
Either way, Abrams has a lot of options to consider for a sequel and I think a pure exploratory mission film is unlikely.
This won’t make me popular, but I like the idea of a Star Warsian crisis/conflict/war of some sort – or something Raiders-like questy/ Lost epic with or without nazis or smokey. No Xindi, borg, ferengi or cardassians please – boring. My fave episodes — the cage, the menagerie, where no man, a taste of armageddon, court marshal, balance of terror, the conscience of the king, devil in the dark, errand of mercy… essentially whole 1st season, fave movies Trek I, II, III — turn all that into one awesome movie please (I’m kidding, mostly). I do like the idea of something that ends darkly, like with a handful of survivors on a shuttle.
#196—”Spock the supposedly “Enlightened Guy” on the crew says….”Oh sure Fu&% it!!” ”
There must be another version of the film in circulation. Spock never says anything of the sort.
So in other words, exploring the human condition, philosophical doctrines, and racism/bi-racial social issues indicate a lack of intelligence? Compared to what?
Once again, just what was so “intelligent” about the earlier Star Trek movies? I didn’t see an answer to that question—-only a nearly incoherent, rambling mess.
What about continuing with the character backgrounds, without repeating the same story. In the new movie Spock and Kirk have their new backgrounds introduced, and in a way those backgrounds set the stage for the present day. What if they continue with that route, and use backgrounds for Sulu and Chekov to help set the stage for the next battle, against a pissed off Klingon armada, that is aggresively expanding to compensate for the attack by Nero.
I don’t think the next movie should bring any of the major TOS villians back (Kahn, etc.). Nero destroyed many Federation and Klingon ships. That should mean lots of opportunity for the other kingdoms such as the Cardassians and even the relatively minor threats to rise and become major problems for Kirk and crew.
#198 wrote: 92, “Irregardless” is not a word.
Of course it is:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless
“200. Odkin – June 20, 2009
I *liked* the new movie (ranking it just under ST2:TWOK and ST4:TVH). However, this movie got the maximum time and attention from the studio and creative team, as there was great pressure not to fail and destroy a valuable, proven franchise.
I think everyone involved (especially the writers) were forced to play at the top of their game. Meaning that this is the best they can do.
When you see “Transformers” again, or it’s sequel this week, keep in mind that these are the SAME writers, performing at probably their typical level. Presumably the level of talent and effort that we would see applied to a Trek sequel.
In the words of Captain Pike – I challenge you to do better. And the person I am challenging is the director and producer, JJ Abrams.
It is up to him to force the next script to be STELLAR. Not “good”, not “clever”, not “exciting”,but all of those things… PLUS Intelligent, Inspiring, Heroic and Nostalgic.
I like Giacchino a lot… but the score fell flat. I think Orci and Kurtzman need to go work permanently for Michael Bay.
Note that I am not bitching about the way Bones parts his hair, or pipes in the Engine Room or other such obnoxious nerdery. I am worried about the heart, brains, and soul of the next movie.
I want the next movie to win an Oscar, be the top grossing Trek movie, and replace TWOK in our hearts as “the best”. I won’t be satisfied with it just being another come-and-go summer hit, or outperforming Transformers 2 or Crystal Skull or Superman Returns.
JJ – either upgrade the talent or demand that they perform at an all-new level.
”
Agreed. I would love to see something on the level of Lord of the Rings but I, too, am concerned that the writers aren’t up to the challenge. I wish they would rope in a really good, morally strong writer. Not a TV or movie writer. A novelist. Too bad Kurt Vonnegut is dead because someone with that ability and foresight is what the next movie needs. I want to see philosophy, not just action.
The way to have an epic, galaxy spanning adveture that could span two or three movies and most of the major powers in the galaxy would be to take “Price of the Phoenix” and “Fate of the Phoenix” and adapt those around Omne and the Phoenix process holding the galaxy hostage. With the young Kirk and Spock, plus the current showing of Spock being closer to losing it emotionally, this would really work well I think. Omne is the villian that could do all this. It has moral implications, political intrigue, and very personal character interactions at a deeply emotional level. Of course it would need changes to certain permises, but to me it was still the best Trek novel premises. Now the technology is there in movie makin to make it happen.
195-
I know, that’s why i mentioned those specific episodes.
I”m saying that their primary mission was exploration, and even when they were faced with or given another mission, exploration and new discovery always followed.
That combo of the familiar and the new and unusual is why i love the show. Or at least it’s a big reason.
If you’re just saying it wasn’t right in our faces every episode, then yea i agree. But my point was simply that their primary mission is always there to some degree.
Two Words: “NO MUDD!!!!!”
Liz and Odkin,
Talk about a raging case of “what have you done for me lately…”
200. Odkin
How right you are but this is impossible, some things are unique and can not be repeted. Gene Roddenberry and his vsion are one of these things. so let as just enjoy “The City on the Edge of Forever”. And not compere this Movie to thigs which are incomparble.
Although we complain the new Star Trek meets his audience, it is an sucsess. So why should they change somthing.
The best solution to this kind of dilemma is some sort of Star Trek the low budget series, produced in Canada, everything very cheap but the storie brilliant
Closettreker,
I”m actually a big fan of your posts. They’re hard not to miss sure, but i like how consistent you are on this site. It’s comforting. You’re probably the one poster i agree with most often.
And i wish you’d go over to AICN and help defend the new movie over there. Those talkbacks seem dominated by just three or four extremely vocal “hater’s” who love to call the new film “dumbed down.” Which we both know is a short sited assumption, or observation rather.
Anyway yea, we disagree on this issue, but today is a rare occasion.
#146 – in fact, Closettrekker, I seem to recall you making this point in another thread and similarly listed the plots of the 6 TOS movies as examples of how there was no exploration in the films at all. The same continued into the 4 TNG films as well. In fact in Insurrection, Picard even muses directly:
“Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers?”
Of course the irony is that the answer is: “No”. No one can remember it because that was really never the mission in Star Trek episodes and films.
200-
I think the Transformers films are the best they can do under the conditions they are in.
Oh, and “Conditions” is just a euphemism for Michael Bey.
See, the transformers movies offend me in the exact same way every Michael Bey movie does. The one other movie these guys wrote for him was the island, and that one was the lest offensive out of all of Beys films.
214-
films yes.
but we’re talking about the eps, and see 210 for a list of original series exploration episodes.
I
#213—I appreciate the compliment. But AICN is not my thing. TM is much more my crowd. And if the ones you refer to have ever peaked over here, they know where to find me. :)
Kirk: “Irregardless” is not a word.
Spock: Of course it is!
This dialoge shoul be be in the next movie
#214—I think AJ says it best:
“The ‘exploration of space’ thing is a metaphor. Exploration of humanity’s possibilities was always the real theme throughout all the series.”
And;
“Star Trek is at its best when exploring the human condition.”
#216 – yes I know. I posted a list of pure exploration episodes at #201, which is what I think you meant. I simply pointed out that the movies did not improve upon the history of exploration in the series. However, similar arguments could be made for the films … the Enterprise might not have been on a mission of exploration, nevertheless they learned something. That’s true of ST09. Hell that’s true whenever I go to the grocery store. It doesn’t improve the situation.
The thing about Trek is that “exploration” is their primary, day to day business. The best stories are not spawned of them directly “exploring” something. The best stories come from when something goes wrong, or something new is found that warrants a search.
Exploration on its own is actually…. kind of boring. Unless of course the star they’re exploring blows up, the away team is unable to beam back to the ship, a redshirt dies, or an alien species makes a hostile move.
If we watched a movie about the E taking notes on a solar system, we’d be bored to tears. That’s why it should start with exploration, but something needs to go horribly, horribly wrong to make the movie good.
151. boborci – June 20, 2009
RE:145. SPOCKBOY – June 20, 2009
Are you trying reverse psychology on us?
_____________________________________________________
Actually no Bob, I was trying to encourage you to be original which I realize is a scary concept in Hollywood these days ; )
I was one who suggested you look up at the stars for inspiration.
Now go in peace.
That’s what i love about star trek.
In seeking out and exploring space and other cultures they end up exploring themselves. It’s almost the text book description of trek, only wouldn’t use my exact phrasing as it is a bit clumsy.
217- I gave up on that site as well. It’s just way too harsh. No one can discuss anything without resorting to name calling or shock tactics.
Oh, and too much casual racism and misogyny (hey, an average Michael Bey film!)
1. They must go where no one has gone before.
2. Klingons should be the main villains and the story should show how Kirk develops his hatred for them.
3. Story should heavily involve Carol Marcus to provide a very emotional storyline for Kirk.
Hi BOB & ALEX;
Like 86 said; how about an exploration/villain combo?
It’s too early in “New Trek” to rely entirely on exploration/natural phenomena/etc…to carry a story.Not enough WOW & thrill & such(this isn’t Discovery Channel.It’s Star Trek.)Such stories come LATER,after getting established.
My mind keeps going back to what someone said the other day:MASTER & COMMANDER,where they have their “Galopagos island” moments in the midst of a war story.
Like;an explorer-class ship studying an awesomely fascinating planet (& dwell on this for, at least, the 1st half of the movie;it’s a 3 hr movie).IE.:a dozen island continents, all lush green paradises;bigger than Earth;humaniods of comparable 19th century technology live on 3 of them;pastoral or hunter/gatherer cultures live on a few of the others;the rest have only animals & dinosaurs & such;no sea-faring activity at all;an advanced amphibian/humanoid culture lives in the ocean(in air-pocketed ,phospherescent,cavern worlds that enter into the world ocean) & sinks any shipping,to discourage sea-faring;the 19th century cultures are just beginning to explore the technology of air-faring(ballons,blimps,etc…)to see their world & solve the mystery of complete failure of sea-faring;etc…just develop an exotic back-story for exploring this planet.MEANWHILE…
The(new villain/antagonist) EMPIRE is literally into “the conquest of space”& has their own “exploration team”(ie.re-enforced recon group)on-planet,for several years now,(this may bring in our trio, with an away team,to assess the military situation for Star Fleet).They’re making plans on how best to take this prize for the EMPIRE.They know the Orion Crime Syndicates,and are working out a plan to sell off the native inhabitats to them(a couple of billion humanoids).They are a hundred years behind the Federation in tech development,but when they take a planet they arrive with thousands of starships & millions of occupation troops.
They’re enroute; Starfleet’s informed;the Federation decides to prevent this massive “crime-against-humanity”;Admiral Pike commands aTask Force of several dozen starships(with Kirk, & the big “E” as his lead ship) & a fleet of troopships carrying Federation Troopers,to bring an end to this EMPIRE’s”war-of-the-worlds” invasion of this planet.
So, this is just a “BIG SCREEN/BIG BUDGET” sort-of-an-idea, for an exploration/villain scenario.
Again, I KNOW i’ll love whatever you guys decide to put on-screen.You’ve already proved it with ST09.Do it again!
#178—”Lets get back to exploration and stop with the bad guys all the time. What ever happened to ‘explore new worlds, to seek out…and boldly go where no man (or script) has gone before’. ”
Ummm….I seem to recall exploring strange new worlds and exploring deep space is where they actually met the bad guys.
Give me a good nasty villain any day over some goofy space anomalie. The crew, especially our good captain, science officer and doctor shine best when they have good villain to play off of. Space vampires, greek gods, Gorns, crazed Roman-like emperors, Klingons, Thasian teenagers, gamesters and gangsters and yes, genetically engineered supermen. Let them explore the unknown and the the villain will show itself.
Bob Orci, give a cool villain that we love to hate!
#146
Yeppers, I think it odd that that there is so little to represent the a lot of the ‘routine mission gone awry’ aspects of TOS in much of the exploration\nature discussions.
I’d always figured that some form of mundane exploration was the norm until a crisis diverted the Enterprise crew into an adventure that was thrilling enough to make an episode out of.
It makes one wonder what the show might have been like had TOS writers penned episodes between adventures.
They would have probably featured a lot of chess, coffee drinking, Class II probes, McCoy bridge loitering, Yeoman Rand needed Kirk’s signature 2384729384 times, and probably a lot of open-mouthed gaping at the viewscreen over the billionth-or-so gaseous anomaly\black hole\quasar\space jellyfish of the week – Robert Wise style.
I’m not knocking the exploration based stories or anything, just that it was always my impression that exploration was what they were up to all along – hence the show’s intro – so the great “return” to the “exploration roots” of Star Trek seems – to me at least – non sequitur.
Either way – the Orci\Kurtzman team has another challenge on their hands in terms of how to apply a fresh threat\conflict model that can keep solid pacing over 2-or-so hour hours.
And that solid pacing is the REAL issue as I understand it – and one that even the great (and aforementioned) Robert Wise had a doozy of a time handling.
STIV worked without a villain (AND viewscreen gaping) thanks to its rock-solid character-based story, and if Orci & Kurtzman are looking to go that route (i.e. villainless) they may want to give it a watch if they haven’t already done so.
Suffice it to say that I don’t think that simply “going back to the roots” is as easy (or even viable outside of theory) as it sounds considering the financial returns the studio would be expecting – and the lessons learned from the oh-so tenuous line between a character-based, whale-tastic classic (STIV) and the viewscreen gawking, pacing disaster that was ST:TMP.
It’s definitely something that we’d WANT Orci & Kurtzman to take some time on hashing out, that’s for sure!
-24thCRS
How about a race to find something before the Klingons do?
Something is discovered by a Federation ship, the Enterprise is sent to investigate it, to explore the unknown, and the Klingons see a potential weapon or prize in the same unknown.
In the end, the unknown could be beyond any of them, and they then have to work together to stop something far worse from happening.
This is a classic Star Trek setup, while giving the opportunity to test the crew, display the value of co-operation between former enemies, and to show something completely original and previously unseen.
227-
Sound kinda like the slaver weapon from TAS. That’s a good idea, that hasn’t been done to death in the movies.
Well, the genesis device but that was made by the federation. They’d have to make the “discovery” that could be a weapon very unique so as not to draw comparisons.
#221. That One guy wrote: “The best stories are not spawned of them directly “exploring” something….Exploration on its own is actually…. kind of boring.”
I’m not sure about that either. Case in point, the “Indiana Jones” franchise (also Parmamount), or “National Treasure”. Both of those film franchises fuel a fascination for archeological exploration, proving if done correctly, exploration does not have to have the dry somnambulistic effect of a Discovery channel documentary. In both cases the films are specifically about exploration and despite things going wrong to slow them down, exploration remains the primary motive of the films until the climax when they deal with the revelation of what they have discovered.
So, yes it can be done. Surely it can be done in Star Trek, but I think the point here is that the essence of Star Trek stories are something else.
Should the movie begin with exploration? Well, that would be a welcome departure from what we have seen in the previous 10 films and most of the 6 series’ episodes.
Bob Orci….
What Star Trek 12 needs is a BIG BAD ASS VILLAIN…
Dark Knight (The Joker) – AMAZING MOVIE!
ST: TWOK (Khan) – Best ST Film??
ST:FC (Borg Queen) – Best TNG Era Movie!
Star Wars (Vader) – REALLY POPULAR AND GOOD!
Star Trek 11 (Nero) – Not my fav villain, but a popular and good film!
Lord of The Rings (The Ring, Sauron, Sauruman) – Top Class Movies
EVEN TOP GUN had a BAD ASS BADDY!! (Iceman [ok im pushing it there]
These films are some of the best films ever made, and they all have BIG BAD ASS VILLAINS!! – This is why they are popular [and the fact they have a good story too] but audiences relate to big villains, everyone loves and hates the bad guy/girl and that is what Star Trek needs, another Khan-esq character.
Give us a real BAD ASS Klingon bad guy who wont FOAD!! A bad ass with real screen time and prescence as well as a good story, a bad ass that we love to hate!!!
It’s a good thing I’m not a trillionaire, or I’d buy Paramount and make the next movie an adaptation of HOW MUCH FOR JUST THE PLANET? just to see K. Urban stuffing a blueberry pie down a Klingon’s pants.
For me even the movies are about exploration. As mentioned previously, in the end they’re exploring the human condition.
It doesn’t matter what they explored. They are still exploring.
#220—I would remove seven of those episodes from the list, such as:
WNMHGB: Responding to an old distress call
The Galileo Seven: Transporting High Commissioner Farris
The Return Of The Archons: Investigation into the disappearance of a ship
The Immunity Syndrome: The Enterprise is headed for rest on a starbase
By Any Other Name: Responding to a distress call
The Omega Glory: Investigating a derelict ship
Plato’s Stepchildren: Responding to a request for medical assistance
And sadly, yes—with a couple of exceptions, most of the 19 episodes you listed are indeed among the worst of TOS.
And while the stories in those episodes may eventually lead to the establishment of first contact or exploration of an unknown world—that isn’t the task which the Enterprise is assigned to begin with in those episodes.
I would reduce that list to the following:
The Corbomite Maneuver
The Enemy Within
Shore Leave
Who Mourns For Adonais?
The Apple
Catspaw
Return To Tommorow
Paradise Syndrome
Spectre of the Gun
Wink of an Eye
That Which Survives
Savage Curtain
So I only count 12 out of 79 episodes where the Enterprise is actually on a mission of exploration when the story begins. I have even expanded my criteria to include “The Enemy Within”—where the Enterprise is on what Kirk calls a “specimen gathering mission”.
Since Shatner tells us every week that the primary mission is exploration—the ratio of stories that are exceptions to that function versus those that reflect it is more than 6.5 to one.
It can only really be a Klingon… Star Trek needs to keep its popular mainstream image, and apart from Khan, the mainstream audience have all heard of Klingons, they know what Klingons are… and in the TOS-Era Klingons were the BAD ASS VILLAINS!!
We’ve never had a really scary “I WILL RAPE YOUR DEAD CARCUS” Klingon villain before… and I think we should make it so!!
Its Logical Bob ;)
We all know the one about not being able to please all of the people all of the time, but (some) Star Trek fans (if they even ARE truly fans) can be the most ingratiating collection of creatures on this planet. Talk about snobs…
I had no idea there were really dozens of actual, produced, million-dollar-generating screenwriters posting in here… I’ll stand up and say I’m not one if you will, but then again I’m not the one throwing tomatoes at Orci and Kurtzman.
As some famous writer once said, “A writer is a person who writes.” Notice, he mentioned nothing about “people who only wish they could put 2 sentences together…” Orci and Kurtzman ARE writers, who actually have a track record, actually sold some projects, and actually got produced, and actually got paid. So, here’s a nice image to really bum out all the sour pusses: Orci, and Kurtzman giggling all the way to the bank.
You know, it’s one thing for someone to take responsibility for their opinion by saying, “I THINK this,” or “I THINK that…” It’s a totally different thing to say, “This guys stinks, that guy’s a hack, or this movie sucks,” as if this sort of opinion holds any water.
No artist produces work because he/she thinks it’s no good.
(WRITER: Mr. Scorcese, I’ve just finished the script and, man, it’s a piece of garbage!
SCORCESE: Great! Let’s do it!)
Every artist does their best to produce work that is true to their heart, and, therefore, hopes to be appreciated for it. No artist expects everyone to like what they do, but no artist is going to let someone’s dislike of their work define what they create, or how they create it.
There are many fans here who really liked ENTERPRISE. I watched all the episodes, and I didn’t care for it. NOTE: I said “I” didn’t care for it. I didn’t say the show sucked, or was lousy, or was horrible, because if YOU liked it, then who am I to question YOUR preference?
And so, who are you to question my preference (and the apparent preference of millions of people who made Trek09 a hit)? My advice for you of sour grapes is to get on with your life (whatever that is), maybe do some writing of your own, sell a couple of scripts, sit in a theater to watch YOUR name on the screen, and hope the audience isn’t full of people like you.
The valiant Enterprise bridge members beam down to a hithertofore unexplored planet. Upon completion of beaming they discover they have CHANGED SEXES!! Spock doubles over with cramps and grabs McCoy to pass along his Katra because he thinks he is dying…Kirk is, of course, wondering what the Big O would feel like in a woman’s body and formulating a plan whereby he can find out…Chekov, Sulu and Scotty pull Uhura aside and ask her/him worriedly how a woman can wear these stupid pantyhose all day long…
Finally, Ensign Slacker aboard the Enterprise admits to having eaten a chillidog over the transporter console just before the crew beamed down, and it seems Ensign Slacker dropped chilli through one of the Heizenberg compensators… Scotty orders said chilli to be cleaned up, and our brave adventurers are reverse-beamed back up to the ship with their original genitalia… Oh, and Kirk DID find out, because he is Kirk, and that is how he rolls…
*Sigh* You guys are missing the point. I could list all the original TOS episodes and list all the ones who dealt with exploration but that is NOT the entire point. For one thing Closettrekker you are being far too literal. I think the two scientific surveys you listed fall just fine under the exploration umbrella.
I could also point out that exploration is only part of the preamble. “SPACE…THE FINAL FRONTIER…These are the VOYAGES of the Starship Enterprise, whose five year MISSION is to EXPLORE NEW WORLDS, to SEEK out NEW LIFE and NEW CIVILIZATIONS, to BOLDLY GO where NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE.”
I think I am not being too liberal to suggest that the majority of Star Trek episodes have some of that involved in their plots.
The bottom line is that I think what is being called for here is not to REPEAT the formula of the first movie or Wrath of Khan. To get the Enterprise in DEEP SPACE and doing interesting things away from EARTH or VULCAN.
And I love who everyone uses WOK and FC as the only barometers as TMP and VH made way more money than WOK and just as much money as FC. Having a super villain is NOT necessary for success for a ST film.
And also, why does everyone assume that an “exploration” film precludes any antagonists or action or adventure or excitement?
I don’t get it, I just don’t get it.
But thankfully I have more faith in Alex and Bob than I do some of you folks. Yeesh.
#238—-Oh, Denise….
225. jonboc wrote: Bob Orci, give a cool villain that we love to hate!
YES!
That is exactly what I was missing with Nero for me. I simply did not care one way or the other what happened to him. He was just not bad or evil enough to “love to hate”. That was my problem with Owen Davian in MI:III, too. Both were just kind of “meh”. Complicating it was the fact that you kind of felt bad for Nero and a sort of sympathy for his plight.
These are just kind of everyday guys who had bad days, or answer to an even higher bad guy. Neither carried the weight of classic villains like Kahn, or Ernst Stavro Blofeld, or even The Joker.
197: The Last Maquis, The Kurtzman/Orci Official “Hate Club” Founder and Member
Since you have enough talent to create a hate club on two professional writers, I’m calling you out. Write a 10 page treatment (with screenplay and lines) on what you think is a better plot. If you actually create something decent, I’ll let it go. If you can’t then you just admit that you’re talking out of your backside.
Closet#240- (giggles manically) Yes, my dearest?
#239—”For one thing Closettrekker you are being far too literal. I think the two scientific surveys you listed fall just fine under the exploration umbrella. ”
Which I conceded in a later post.
“I think I am not being too liberal to suggest that the majority of Star Trek episodes have some of that involved in their plots.”
I wouldn’t dispute that. What I suggested is that in the vast majority of episodes, exploration wasn’t the task to which the Enterprise had been assigned in the story.
” Having a super villain is NOT necessary for success for a ST film. ”
Agreed.
My favorite four Star Trek films are :
ST09
TWOK
TMP
TVH
(the rest range from decent to poor, IMO)
Only two of those 4 films present the audience with a truly ‘villainous’ antagonist for the story.
“…why does everyone assume that an “exploration” film precludes any antagonists or action or adventure or excitement?”
I don’t think that anywhere near “everyone” assumes that. I think you might be looking at some of the comments on this thread outside the context of a specific discussion within it, and coming to a flawed conclusion about the posters behind them.
#243—I’d say that you’re up to no good, but….are we headed back poolside later? :)
Please Mr. Orci, bring us something (mostly) new. A proper sequel should bring forward the esencial flexibility of the Trek formula (a ship and a big universe out there, anything can happen). I guess you should adress the struggling of the surviving Vulcans, and it would be fun to add more references to classic episodes (or their variations in the new timeline), but just messing and playing with what is already established (even if you are really clever about it, as I´m sure you would be), will hurt the scope of the future stories you could tell (even more at this early point of the tale). My wish list for the next movie: I understand these days you can´t go so weird in movies as in tv but it would be great to have something in Trek as creepy, mysterious and mind bending as you, Damon and JJ have in Lost or Fringe.
“212. boborci
Liz and Odkin,
Talk about a raging case of “what have you done for me lately…””
Bob, you work in HOLLYWOOD and have a problem with “what have you done for me lately”? Boy, are you in the wrong line of work. I’d like to introduce you to Woody Allen, Richard Donner, Orson Welles, Nick Meyer, and countless others with far more cause to object to that attitude than you.
What you have “done for me lately” is Transformers 2. Who gets peed on this time?
Better get used to hearing that phrase around town.
xoxo
Have a great rest of the weekend, everyone. I’m taking a break from too much technology until Monday.
@36. Tiberius1000
Good idea – actually, what about properly realized Planet Killers as the threat?
Get rid of the traditional “villain” – in a way it would be more of a force of nature.
maybe throw the Klingons in as well – a miss understanding about what destroyed a colony or something.
#235 – You are correct, as usual, but I would reconsider these:
WNMHGB: I thought the point was that they had been ordered to cross and explore beyond the galactic barrier and came across the old style distress signal on their way. Purpose of mission: exploration.
The Galileo Seven: The Enterprise was exploring Murasaki 312, though arguably, only as a sidebar to their mission to transport medicine. However, the Enterprise chose to stop and study. I would have to lean toward putting this one in the exploration column as that is what they are doing at the opening.
It does not improve them as candidates for a feature film script however. What they were thinking with the decidedly TV oriented script of the TMP is beyond me, especially with Star Wars as their model. Clearly Rodenberry was modeling his story on the equal box office success of Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
207/RD:
From Wikipedia: ” ‘Irregardless’ is a term meaning ‘in spite of’ or ‘anyway,’ that has caused controversy since it first appeared in the early twentieth century. It is generally listed in dictionaries as “incorrect” or “nonstandard”. “
AJ#251- Meet me in Chat!
Yes to Khan, but with a twist. It’s high time we have a female villian.
The Enterprise finds the Botany Bay adrift, and follows along the lines of the Space Seed episode. The crew meets, and so on. However, I thought it would always be neat if one of Khan’s followers decides that she is more suited to the role of ‘bearing’ a new race of humans; a second chance at building her empire. She could have been a princess in the eugenics empires and married Khan for political purposes. Now she decides this is her opportunity to strike. So, she kills Khan…and the rest of the story unfolds….
#251. And your point? It’s still a word. Wikipedia even uses the word “term” to describe it – a word by any other name. Besides my link to Webster’s trumps your link to Wikipedia any day.
AND
#244 Closettrekker wrote:
My favorite four Star Trek films are : ST09 TWOK TMP TVH … Only two of those 4 films present the audience with a truly ‘villainous’ antagonist for the story.
Isn’t it funny how the other two feature giant nebulous devices of mysterious origin that threaten the destruction of the Earth if they don’t get the answers they are seeking? ST09 seemingly combining both of these traits.
Mr. Orci.
I feel i need to give you an apology. I laid into you pretty hard about the new movie. I finally went and saw it and I must say, Bravo!
I know you probably don’t remember my comments but I would like to say to you that I apologize.
Thanks
Papa Jim
253. bolianbob wrote: “It’s high time we have a female villian. (sic)”
Uh … the Borg Queen?
255. Papa Jim – June 20, 2009
No apology necessary, but thank you nonetheless! Thanks for seeing the movie.
A war picture with moral concerns. think COTEOF without the time travel.
#14 – Right on!
#13 – We know how you feel already! Why do you come here thread after thread and spew your misery?
LET IT GO! THERE ARE PLENTY OF TOS EPISODES ON VHS AND BETA FOR YOU TO ENJOY!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
13. The Last Maquis, The Kurtzman/Orci Official “Hate Club” Founder and Member – June 20, 2009
I don’t like what they’ve done with Trek, but I don’t mind the job they’ve done with Transformers, until I see what “Revenge” will be like that is, hopefully there is a better story than the first as well. If you guys do a “Trans 3″ You need to do two things, Unicron!!, and Dinobots!! or the Deal’s off.
14. Gummy – June 20, 2009
Dear #13;
FIne. You don’t like their “Trek”.
Now that you know what their vision is, then don’t go to see the next two movies. This way, I can enjoy them in peace and not have some idiot sit there and critique it.
Because that’s annoying. That and Cell Phones ruin a movie viewing experience.
#148
Actually, it wasn’t a “plot device” at all. It is merely a fanon notion derived from a single line of dialogue in ‘The Enterprise Incident’—–”Intelligence reports Romulans using Klingon design.”
Good point– I had always accepted it as canon, but you’re right. The concept has appeared in several written works, but has yet to be “proven.” The closest I can come to backing up my initial statement would be the Sela’s aid of the House of Duras, which occurred generations later. The only canon material that I can say definitely supports this is the following line lifted from Memory Alpha (which, by the way, largely agrees with you):
The only real indication in the series as shown that an alliance was ever in effect is in “Reunion”, where Riker says in response to a suggestion that the Klingons and Romulans were working together: “A new Klingon alliance with the Romulans?” By saying “new” it implies that there had been an “old” one at some point.
I do feel that it is somewhat implied throughout Star Trek history, though I suppose my view could be considered somewhat biased, having read a fair amount of fan fiction.
Now, I’m curious as to what you think about the mirror universe plot. I’m sort of surprised something like that hasn’t been brought up here. Keep in mind that I’m going, not for intelligence/believability, though those are very important to me personally, but the kind of mass appeal that made ST09 watchable. I don’t think ST09 is the best -Star Trek- movie, but it is the best and most appealing -movie- among them (excepting perhaps II and VI, which were masterpieces).
Last Maquis, we got it, you didn’t like it and have not been shy about reminding us… over and over. Some people did enjoy it. Must you rain on this particular parade?
To those comparing “Transformers”…well that franchise is completely different, a movie based on a TV series based on toys…you don’t expect it to be “2001″ with giant robots. I went in with low expectations (not being a fan of the show…the terrible animation was such a turn off) I was pleasantly surprised by what we got!
While “TREK 12″ has a clean slate, there’s nothing wrong with taking elements from the original show and putting a new spin on them, “The Dark Knight” did this exceptionally well with the Joker. I don’t see why it can’t be done with Khan or The Doomsday Machine or something else.
#260 – The Mirror Universe does not conform to Orci’s application of MWI QM which he says he will never stray from as long as he’s on the team. Therefore, no Mirror Universe stories.
If the Mirror Universe were possible, then “Prime” Spock could go home too
Think they’ll hold the camera still a few seconds in this one?
I’m sure you guys realize that any plot point you put on this forum guarantees it will never be used.
“No Khan Do”
Get enough people to chant it :)
Here’s hoping for the exploration, perhaps even joint exploration, with someone who was more of an adversary in the Prime Universe, but is shaded to follow the line of the Romulan Commander… “in another… called you friend.”
#100: “Hmm Tpring and Uhurha [sic] in a cat fight. Hmmm.”
No!!! No catfights! No catsuits! What do you think this is, Dynasty?
download, upload….t’peer to t’peer katra sharing
Captain Mike, be careful of making unwarranted generalizations. While many so-called, “hard core,” Star Trek fans loved the new movie, not all of them did.
While I would not call myself hard core, I did not like the new movie.
In my opinion, the movie did not work for me:
• The plot was weak and in many ways a retread of tired old ideas– man driven only by his vengeance, an enemy with a super-weapon, the Earth in danger of being destroyed by an alien threat, only Kirk and the Enterprise can save the day. (And how many times does Kirk have to be hanging off of the edge of something?)
• The characters were poorly fleshed out and developed. We know Kirk was a rebel, but we saw nothing to know what caused his rebellious nature. Spock is a momma’s boy but we don’t know why. Other than upstaging and reprimanding him, we are given nothing to know why Kirk and Spock can’t get along. It is never developed or explored. Moreover, we aren’t given anything (other than Spock Prime’s words) to know why Kirk and Spock can suddenly get along.
In a review of the film score for Star Trek XI, in comparing it to the other film scores, the reviewer notes that the score sounds like the score for a comic book super-hero movie. And that is the kind of movie this was.
Star Trek was at its best when it was exploring the human condition. (That is when sci-fi in general is at its best.) And you don’t need a vengeful, megalomaniac hell bent on the destruction of Earth to explore the human condition.
Kirk on Talos IV!!!!!!!
Many people calling for something original, but so much of what keeps coming up here is hardly original… which, I believe, proves my point: there isn’t really anything original to be done… at least with Star Trek. Even in this new, alternate time-line, there are still limits to what sort of story can be told. You have a starship, a crew and 2 hours of time to fill. That, alone, puts limitations on what you can do. Kirk/Spock/McCoy are our heroes, and they have to be put to the test by something or someone, and come out on top in the end. More limitations. Kirk has to come up against a real challenge, and figure his way out of it. Limitation.
The thing is HOW you work within these limitations. Orci and Kurtzman will not be using any of the plots proposed in this thread… there’s nothing really NEW here, and they certainly don’t want someone chasing after them with a lawsuit after Star Trek:SomethingSomething comes out, saying, “That was my idea!!” Besides, I think the main thing is not so much plot as characters. We care about Star Trek because of Kirk/Spock/McCoy, etc., not because of “the Enterprise is ordered to Orgon IV to investigate…” The plot is almost inconsequential, in this sense, because the characters, themselves, are far more important to us. And if those characters are forced to act in unexpected ways BECAUSE OF the circumstances they confront, our attention and curiosity will be surely fixed.
The sequel needs to build on several things:
Consquences of the destruction of Vulcan both personal and practical
Spock’s relationship with Uhura (leave this bit in for the non-Trekkie chicks)
Kirk’s development as a leader
Building on the brief post-it note personalities of the supporting crew
My undying love for Janice Rand
To this end they need an overall plot that links into these elements. My call would be to invlove a Vulcan survey team (involve Sarek, T’Pring, T’Pau, and Carol Marcus in the plot). T’Pring is there to remind Spock of his obligations to his people and heritage and provide some angst for his relationship with Uhura. T’Pau is just too cool to ignore a second time around. Carol is there to give Kirk a love interest and a personal interest is saving the damsel in distress. Sarek or T’Pring can provide a similar impetus for Spock.
So the plot involves the survey team being imperiled (Orion pirates would be my favourite as piracy and terrorism are topical but the Klingons and/or Romulans can be involved too/instead)
The Enterprise has to track down and rescue the prisoners involving a search on an Orion pirate outpost (like in Enterprise) with maybe a space battle at the end.
As part of the epilogue, we can see some Klingon mercenaries buying spare parts at the end of the film, including an old derelict – the Botany Bay… and leave that thread hanging for a future showdown involving Khan and some Klingon henchmen.
Whatever else happens, bring in Janice as Kirk’s Yeoman and personal security guard and lets see a woman getting in on the hand-to-hand action for a change. A bit of friction between her and Carol would be fun too.
i think it was N Meyer or Denny Martin Flynn or maybe H Bennett who said that star trek (movies) always work best when they are action adventure in space (like star wars)….where as when it tries the full on sci fi exploration/the unknown/2001 thing where you spend two hrs telling the audience ‘guess whats around the corner…’- it never seems to pull it off (whoever it was said it also brought up The Abyss as a film that although was superbly paced and built up – still felt like a let down at the end)
maybe its best to stick with what works…and maybe its best that the Star Trek villians gallery should be brought out on the big screen like the batman villians gallery
so:
Star Trek 2 – Khan v Klingons v Federation (Nero disrupting the timeline so the Botany Bay gets discovered by the Klingons or another Federation ship…cue mass ‘Khan’age..itd be fun to mix up Khan with the klingons as opposed to one or the other being the villian…would even hark back to Khan referenceing the ‘old klingon proverb’ – he was clearly on the same wave length )
Star Trek 3 – something else popular – the Borg? (yeah why not…..First Contact will be nearing the 20 year mark by then and itd be fun to see how Kirk and Spock deal with what is essentially Aliens meets Terminator)
or maybe (as has come up repeatedly) – save Khan as a joker-esque tease in 2 – leading on to his full blown apperence in 3
so many possibilities of what to do…its crazy…i envy boborci but at the same same dont…it must be hard deciding what to do…what to go with
#269 We know Kirk was a rebel, but we saw nothing to know what caused his rebellious nature.
I would have thought that the horror of what Kirk saw under Kodos’ rule in the original timeline would have been far more traumatising than losing his Dad before he knew him. Making Kirk a rebel without a cause just because of this was an American Cliche I’m afraid. The original Kirk was a much more endearing character but I think he’s still there if they can just tease him out.
#24
“I vote for the “exploration sci-fi plot where the unknown and nature itself is somehow an adversary.” This type of plot has never really been done in one of the films. Both V’Ger and the Whale Probe were constructed by some race, and all the other movies used the “villain model” (Khan, Kruge, Sybok/”God”, Chang, Soran, Borg Queen, Ru’Afo, Shinzon). I’d say we’re way overdue for an adversary that is NATURE itself. Of course, that doesn’t mean you can’t have living people as secondary villains. :)”
but didnt we get NATURE as the villian to some extent in the new film? The supernova….
Well, Spock -did- take the Kobayashi Maru test, with Vulcan going bye-bye and all… Which I thought was very interesting.
To Bob Orci: A female villain would be very nice.
Personally, I’d be interested in seeing some story inspiration from the Mass Effect universe/franchise.
#190 I am definitely not suggesting another time travel story.
I just came across another novel which has mixture of adventure and exploration
The Brave and the Bold
“265. mr. mugato – June 20, 2009
I’m sure you guys realize that any plot point you put on this forum guarantees it will never be used.”
I was thinking the same thing, I don’t know how the studio’s lawyers and his agent allow Orci to read these ideas. I for one, waive monetary (but not credit) rights to any idea I post. It seems to me that if Orci adopts any of the ideas here that he is exposing the franchise to some litigious nerd. Said nerd could easily prove that he posted “the idea” while Orci and JJ were hashing out plots and while Orci was actively reading and posting here.
In the sequel, the Vulcans will settle on a swamp planet. Spock will try to achieve Kolinahr there but will be compelled to go and save his friends who are being held on the cloud city by the Calrissians, er umm, Klingons.
And Kirk will be encased in corbomite and taken away by Harry Mudd.
>;>}
#269 – agreed!
WHAT I’D LIKE TO SEE IN THE NEXT ‘TREK’ FILM (and the one after that, and the one after THAT)
I’ve given this quite a bit of thought, and so this may take awhile. Apologies to the attention-deficit-disordered, the casual readers and the underzealous.
[1] GROWING CHARACTERS. One of the truly great, even courageous, things about ‘Star Trek’ is that it dared to offer up characters that, far from personifying the sort of ‘Starfleet Academy, 90210′ carbon-copy caricatures so many of us spent so much time biting our nails over, were in reality incomplete and in some cases only minimally formed, prototype versions of beloved familiar, even cliched pop-culture icons. And — even better — Orci, Kurtzman and Abrams had the balls to, in small ways at least, REINVENT some of the most enduring characters of the modern age. For example — Pine’s Kirk is far less refined, less competent, less authoritarian than Shatner’s commanding, capable, paternalistic Kirk. This new Kirk is arrogant rather than pompous, cocky rather than confident, slick rather than smooth, and it shows. He’s a brawler, not a tactician; a cad, not a charmer; more dervish than diplomat. He’s been in bar fights aplenty, but that makes him a fighter, not a strategist. He’s got genius-level aptitude tests, and can do well when he applies himself, but he’s easily distracted (especially by the opposite sex) and has NEVER stayed the course long enough to actually complete ANYTHING (being given a battlefield commission to First Officer after the entire Academy is prematurely “graduated” doesn’t count, folks). He is, in fact, far more like TOS’ Bones than its Kirk; he is COMPLETELY DOMINATED by emotion, whether that emotion be comprised of positive ones like enthusiasm or loyalty, or negative ones like rebelliousness or revenge. Command will not sit easily on this man’s shoulders; he will tire quickly of the tediousnes of administration, rail ineffectually against the confines of bureaucracy, pine (heh) vainly for those few moments of excitement and terror and action that only punctuate the vast, overweaning tapestry of routine that is life aboard a scientific and exploratory vessel only tangentially intended for front-line combat duty. Kirk is a man who needs a war, who needs to be needed; a good man in a storm who, in the absence of one, will make one on his own. Starfleet will stick him on missions and saddle him with responsibilities that will require him to check in every fifteen minutes lest he provoke an intergalactic war. In Admiral Pike he’ll find an ally and a potential benefactor at first, but ultimately Pike will tire of being a flag-rank babysitter to an intergalactic hero who can’t wait to hop galaxies but who resents escort duty, who he frankly can’t fire for political and public-relations reasons. (What, you mean you relieved EARTH’S SAVIOR of his COMMAND?) Kirk is going to be, not to put too fine a point on it, a royal pain in the ass for Pike and for Starfleet… The 23rd Century’s very own Douglas MacArthur, a renegade military legend who is, to use contemporary vernacular, too big to fail.
This is something Kirk will have to overcome, this burden of being far too successful, far too famous, far too powerful, far too early. He will overreach, make mistakes out of pride and ignorance and impatience that will soon alienate his betters, such as his First Officer and even his best friend, McCoy. He will have to be put in his place — repeatedly — and will suffer the judgments of his peers and even his inferiors, all of whom — with the possible exception of Chekov — are far more mature than he. He won’t be popular. No one will sit next to him at the officers’ mess. Careerists will consider him, at best, an opportunist who got lucky… at worst, a dangerously unpredictable cancer influencing a new generation of Starfleet officers who think they can, like him, short-circuit the system to achieve greatness.
I have much, much more to say, but it can wait. Be back tomorrow or the next day. In the meantime, I’d love to hear what y’all think…
I am with the Khan bandwagon- if Heath Ledger can reinvent the Joker for the Dark Knight then someone like Javier Bardem would make a badass Khan. That’s a guaranteed blockbuster right there- leave the exploration stuff for the tv series, people go to the movies to watch good guys versus bad guys and lots of explosions…
“Exploration sci-fi plot where the unknown and nature itself is somehow an adversary.”
If they are truly building toward seeding some threads to be tied up well in the third film, then they should start with an exploration sci-fi plot where the unknown is an adversary. But plant some seeds for an additional villain for the third. See a good character turn bad.
The curious thing about Khan is that it could turn out very differently this time. Khan may never be marooned on Ceti Alpha V and all that. With that instinct for conquest, it could be a far more menacing to have him roaming space on the loose. Oh, the possibilities are endless. What a fun script to write.
I’ve read,on other websites, that, legally,any idea posted on websites such as this one, becomes the property of paramount/CBS etc…so don’t worry about speaking your mind on what you want to see in a Star Trek movie,if you’re not looking to make money from your ideas(which is the mindset of genuine,non-mercenary fans).Those who intend to make money from their ideas will,naturally, “hold their cards close to their vest”,so-to-speak,& not freely state them on a public website.
So,throw in,what do you want to see in a Star Trek movie?You know that YOU will NEVER be able to produce it,so let JJ,BOB, & Alex KNOW what you would like to see.
Also,give any verification on whether or not I’m correct in what i’ve just said.I think it’s true.
#281 – Wow.
I think I’d like to see how things turn out for that kind of Kirk – AND pay 7 or so bucks to do so actually.
- 24thCRS!
@282: If you’re planning on seeing Star Wars.
the only problem with Khan returning is… right now, he has no “revenge” factor toward Kirk. Space Seed hasn’t happened yet (and might not.. depending on the mojo of this new Trek Universe.)
Jesus flippin Christ, drop all the Kahn talk. Please come up with something creative and new. I guess after hundereds of trek episodes and many movies, maybe every possible story hasd been told.
#232: “EVEN TOP GUN had a BAD ASS BADDY!! (Iceman [ok im pushing it there]”
Yuck! Don’t put “Top Gun” and “Star Trek” in the same stream of consciousness!
The end of the universe will be at hand if that were to happen. -ugh- what a horrible horrible film! I bury my head in disgust ever time I am exposed to that poor excuse for a film.
I want someone to tell me a bunch of Navy jocks really hang around nearly nekkid save a towel in a locker room. It all sounds like a bad porn fantasy to me… Iceman wasn’t a baddie, he was just a dude with a misplaced superiority complex (i.e., a jerk!)… but then the same could be said for Maverick (Tom Cruise’s character) too.
#235: I would add “The Cage/The Menagerie” and the “City on the Edge of Forever” to the list. In the latter they were, after all, investigating a planet because of its mysterious time displacement properties…
uh, I hope Harlan isn’t reading this (grin)… KIDDING.
Speaking of Harlan, my son and I were talking afew days ago about Mr. Ellison’s visit to Notre Dame years ago when my son was a senior. He said Harlan was gracious, witty, and quite engaging. Methinks he all too often gets a bad rap because he won’t take anyone’s s**t.
In the sequel, would the uniforms be the same ones they are wearing at the end; blue, gold, red or will their be a transition to the red uniforms with the white collars worn in TWOK and TUC.
My favourite uniform in the new movie was during the cheating hearing, that close up shot of pine wearing that red cadet uniform owns. Too bad we didn’t get to see more of Pine in that red cadet one or the classic Gold one. Pine wearing the black muscle shirt for most of the film was meh, should have gone with the one he wore in the KM sim or the red cadet one.
Alien taking the form of Kirks Father bring back (Chris Helmsworth) and spocks Mom (Winona Ryder). Promising wealth, power, lost loved ones in exchange for their souls/moral dillema.
Spock beats Kirk in 3D Chess and Kirk beats Spock in NL Texas Hold’em. Showcasing the power of logic vs risk and risk vs logic. Spock and Kirk debating about logic and risk.
Kirk contracts aging illness from away mission and turns old (William Shatner time)
The no win scenario rears its ugly head, but this time, it’s for real. I would like this to be done right, not some homage joke. Real chance for Pine to show his command/tactic handling ability and for you to wow us again.
Reference Obama as the first black president in earth’s history.
Kirk’s father (Chris Helmworth) is not dead but captured by Nero/Klingons/Alien, flashback scene explaining what happened.
The Federation needs dilithium crystals and goes after the precious resource by calling the Klingons a terrorist state, full invasion to take the crystals what is in Klingon Territory. (60’s style TOS with messages and comments about our current political affairs and who we are as people and where we are going). Kirk objects and a proper insurrection movie is made, invasion led by Khan (who was found years ago by Star Fleet and advanced far into earth’s command). Enterprise faces off with the Federation and forges peace with the Klingons after, much sooner than int he prime universe. Kirk is commended again with crew.
#281 – I think you put a lot more thought into it than O and K did.
No Borg.
No Khan.
Landru!!!
Remember when Kirk and crew are running away from all those people brainwashed by Landru? It was super creepy – and almost zombie-like.
I think that’s what they should do for the new movie. There is so much potential – and plenty to fill two hours.
I would like a movie to be made about how awesome I am, and how everybody loves me (Bob Orci should write it).
Then when the public’s appetite for me has been whetted thoroughly, I should be cast as a pair of female crew-members underpants, or perhaps as Uhura’s exercise bike seat. I would be the new “it” boy, until of course, my out-of-control spiral into drugs and cheap hookers and the Food Channel marathons.
Can you say Academy Awards?
Cogito cogito, ergo, cogito sum.
I think I think, therefore, I think I am.
#17: “Unfortunately, it is singularly difficult to combine epic adventure/action with a moral dilemma [...]”
Considering how many millions of dollars are being spread around, it should be moot that any part of the process be _difficult._
But I take consolation that no matter what the writers decide, it will (again) be irrelevant to how much fun (or how successful) the film is. As long as Abrams sticks to his existing method and runs it past the audience at double speed, with no breathing or thinking time, a few laughs, a few explosions, lots of lens flares … then the script will continue to have no real impact on how much fun the movie is.
“…exploration sci-fi plot where the unknown and nature itself is somehow an adversary or the villain model. That’s an active discussion we’re having right now.”
Y – E – S
I just know these guys can find the perfect combination with something like this.
A lot of people on this board have been asking for the “explore new worlds, etc” thing for the next film……..
My god, could it be they are listening to us……?!
: )
Thanks CRS (#285)! Me, too… That’s why I’m writing this, in fact. I have it on good authority that TPTB are monitoring this and other Websites, very very closely, and are — very much unlike the Berman / Braga-era ‘Trek’, in the last few years of their stewardship at least — EXTREMELY interested to “hear” just what the fan base thought of ‘STXI’, and just what course THEY think the franchise ought to chart going forward. I’m writing what I want to see, and, not coincidentally, what I believe we just MIGHT. JJ’s ‘Star Trek’ fulfilled very nearly ALL my expectations and hopes, and rebooted my enthusiasm for and faith in the franchise as a whole. Why NOT have lightning strike twice?, is my thinking…
Anyway, continuing…
The Kirk I describe above (post #281) is NOT a Kirk that’s terribly familiar to us, naturally, outside that is of certain Mirror Universe, printed and Web (fan-)fiction of arguable canonical value, and brief representations in TOS wherein the character was either “altered” or operating under some terrible and irresistable strain. I believe this is not a matter of mere choice, but necessity. This is not, to coin a phrase, your father’s James Tiberius Kirk, nor should it be. That James T. Kirk, veteran starship captain even at the outset of the Enterprise’s five-year mission under his command, was not only a product of the circumstances present in the Roddenberry ‘Trek’ universe that, for all intents and purposes, ended with the annihilation of Romulus and Remus by the Hobus supernova, but, far more importantly, was a natural reflection of Roddenberry’s OWN life, his experiences and the influences working upon him as a product of Twentieth-Century Western culture. Roddenberry, maverick and idealist though he was, came of age in an era that saw the end of colonialism, with its well-heeled career professional military leaders steeped equally in philosophy and martial studies, and the rise of a world order dominated by two powerful and ideologically opposite empires. His Starfleet reflected the actual Terran military of the age: bold young men, equally well versed in classical literature as in contemporary armaments, commanding machines, not armies; ingenious devices awesome in their size, their complexity, their abilities to detect and discern, and positively terrifying in their capabilities to destroy. His United Federation of Planets emulated the nascent U.N., a coalition of exotic but peacable cultures perhaps not united, exactly, but certainly committed to furthering common knowledge and understanding through self-interest. His 23rd- (and 24th-) Century Earth represented a progression from a 20th-Century Earth that had been very nearly torn asunder by limitless war, exceptional devastation and boundless cruelty, and therefore encapsulated the very best hopes and ideals of his generation, the very same generation that ripped the world in half and was working so diligently to piece it back together into a more humane and evolved whole.
We are not that generation, and this new ‘Star Trek’ should not attempt to be a mimeograph of its previous incarnation(s). It should reflect OUR reality, OUR time, OUR thought processes. Pine’s Kirk should (and does) do likewise.
There are, simply put, no more Grand Old Men of our military, no more warrior poets, no more philosopher kings. Gone is the era of the commander who could liberally quote both regulations and Robespierre. Dead is the tradition of the professor of rhetoric who, called to the sword, changed the course of history in an afternoon. Lost is the spirit of the Renaissance man who feels compelled to don the uniform in the hope of putting his coffee-shop moralizing into action with his very own hands. Abandoned is the romantic notion of the university-educated aristocrat charging the guns. Shatner’s Kirk is a man of reason who pulls on the gold command uniform in the hopes of bettering his universe through the specific employment of his own idealism. Pine’s Kirk is a man of desperation who enters Starfleet because he has no place else to go. He doesn’t quote ‘Hamlet’’s lavish poetry; he speaks in snide, clipped, pithy one-liners that might as well be text messages for all their resonance. He doesn’t collect ancient weapons; he collects cheap trollops he stabs with his own. He doesn’t read Dickens; he plays the Beastie Boys.
What I’m saying is, this Kirk didn’t start out in the same place the previous one did. Nor should his trajectory be similar.
Continued later…
I think I’ll name my kids Landru.
I’m still digging that Jessica Alba as naked klingon villain idea, posted by someone way up there.
Michelle Yeoh as Admiral Nogura, baby.
I said this in a couple threads back also, but I think the episode of “Space Seed” was a week way to introduce such the menacing character that he becomes in ST:II. I know how unpopular the idea is around here to reintroduce him, but with a great actor like Javier Bardem playing Khan I think the “taking over the Enterprise” story could really be gripping. I think that part of the reason Star Trek First Contact was so good was because it was a contained problem within the ship. There wasn’t a tremendous battle outside the vessel, but the ship was being transformed and people were dying horrible deaths. It was about the humanity and the human conflict – only it took place in outer space onboard a starship.
Aside from introducing Khan on the botany bay, we could also start the film off with a scene from the eugenics wars which would really introduce khan in his position of power and give him a chance to show off how much damage he really did… like the Rock in the scorpion king. I think there is a tremendous story and a missing chunk of the Khan story in the trek universe as it exists right now.
Bring Back KHANNN!
297. Is the “good authority” the comments section on this website, where Bob Orci posts pretty darned regularly?
“He doesn’t collect ancient weapons; he collects cheap trollops he stabs with his own.” Ouch. Can’t he be all of these things? Perhaps in the 23rd century, Beastie Boys songs are considered as classic as Dickens etc.
Come up with something new and original.
No re-makes, no cameos of shorelines gone-bye.
You screwed-up, I mean changed the star trek universe – now get on with it! Tell NEW Stories about Kirk and crew.
“151. boborci – June 20, 2009
Are you trying reverse psychology on us?”
Bob, you’re a funny guy. ;)
I’m sure the “New story with little Prime ST tie-ins” approach will serve you well for the sequel, however I do have one personal request, if I may. Shields! :D
P.S. The Kelvin lift does indeed go in the wrong direction. Caught it on my 3rd watch.
A real threat that isn’t another Khan (Montalban isn’t going to be beaten by any other rendition so it’s a futile thought) – or another pissed off Romulan, or the done to death Klingons or Borg.
Hmm – easy. The Doomsday Machine. That planet killer – maybe one of many – is still out there! And Spock Prime knows that – and maybe so does Kirk after his mind-meld.
Now that would be stunning!
Dear Mr Orci and Kurtzman,
Whatever happens in this new sequal, can we PLEASE have something new and original? i.e. no Klingons, no Romulans, no starship battles. Let the universe be somewhere to roam, rather than just a backdrop for ships to have battles in etc etc. Lets up the ante and make sci-fi movies INTELLIGENT again as well as fun (remember The Andromeda Strain, Westword, Silent Running, 2001 etc etc? THEY were neat!). A real ride which makes you think about the story for weeks after you’ve left the movie. Star Trek at it’s best always managed that.
No offence, but lets not turn Star trek into transformers…..
Star Trek – now it’s up and running again thanks to your great movie – NEEDS to be fresh. It’s a hard job to do for sure, but the next movie needs to totally move forward and explore strange NEW worlds (NEWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!). I still feel strongly that one should come up with a strong story first (consult with some well respected sci-fi writers – proper sci-fi not Star Wars type fantasy) and THEN work on the characters and FX and all that.
Let Star Trek by the torch bearer for a (hopefully) new generations of fun, spectacular and INTELLIGENT summer blockbusters, the kind we used to get in the 70s and early 80s. Today it’s all spectacle, explosions, and toilet humour gags and not much else… it doesn’t have to be like this and it would be cool for Star Trek to raise the bar for everyone else to follow. Heck maybe be daring and not feel the need for tons of FX…
Here’s hoping ;)
- Mugz
#40
It always helps your cause when you accuse everyone that doesn’t agree with you of being an idiot. Yeesh.
If your still here after over 300 posts
1: adress “Vulcan destroyed, what now” in some way
2: proceed with the crew character development
3: a new adventure/story (don’t use old ones & limit yourself)
Would love to find out more about Keensers Aliens or the others seen in Star Trek XI.
a cameo by Andorians and Denobulans would be cool aswell
the icing on the cake obviously would be Archers dog to return and a short cameo from Scott Bakula…
Bring back Pon-Farr!
Alright, here’s my pitch for the Star Trek sequel: You heard it here first!
BORG!!!! Klingons!!! KICK-ASS!!!! That sums it up. Details? Here you go:
I read in IDW’s prequel to the new film that the Narada (Nero’s ship) was enhanced by Romulan augmented Borg technology. Now what if the Narada, floating around for 25 years, alerted the BORG to the Federation early and accidentally, just by its very presence? I’d say a Borg invasion of the Federation nearly 100 years too early is terrifying… and awesome. Kirk VS Borg Queen!!!
So have the 23rd century Borg shoot for Earth, and the Federation being totally outmatched sends the Enterprise to lead in a desperate search for allies: leading them to the Klingons!!! That’s right, send Kirk to go and try to convince the Klingons to turn their disruptors away from the neutral zone and towards anything cube shaped!
Then the Borg attack the Klingons and the Klingons start to really hate Kirk for bringing the Borg to their doorstep. Have the movie end with the Federation still on the defense but the Borg stalled or defeated with the Klingons blaming Earth (and Kirk) for nearly annihilating them by Borg proxy.
This sets up a third movie between Kirk and a Klingon villain who fought the Borg in the second film, a sort of Vendetta plot. It’ll be sweet!!!!
And for all of those who want an exploration type movie, sorry. The film media doesn’t work that way. Save it for the next t.v. series. No one goes to the movies to watch Nature shows, and even March of the Penguins only pulled in a few million $$$. Give us big, loud, and epic, and it’ll fuel interest in the t.v show, books and comics that can give our beloved exploration themes their due.
Have to say I wasn’t a big fan of anything Enterprise, so to make this one fan happy — no Denobulans please. Just thought I’d ask.
308: With all respect, nope. Just what exactly is new about Borg or Klingons that we haven’t seen a zillion times before?
Really, the only time Star Trek has had a consistent, overarching theme of space exploration was in the first two seasons of ENT- which many people disliked, for whatever reason. There you go.
What’s new about any of it? It’s all in how it’s told.
But the Borg threat would be compelling. Part of the tension in the Enterprise episode with the Borg was that you knew how overwhelming the threat was, but they had to skirt continuity so carefully. Now, they can go for broke. It may not sound new on paper, but how did this movie sound before we all saw it?
With these writers, this cast and crew, it’s all up for grabs and the old becomes completely new, and unexpected.
Yes, yes, yes to: “exploration sci-fi plot where the unknown and nature itself is somehow an adversary or the villain model”!
Enough bad guys.
I think t’s importnt to make the plot very different fro the first movie while maintaiing the continuity of the characters, thei growth and relationships.
And pleas, no direct references to the prime timeline.
I just want to know if the new Enterprise got a little bit of a boost of technology as a result of the Kelvins scans of Nero’s ship.
Why all the Khan interest? Been there done that. Let’s finally have an exploration film! One can create drama, mystery, thrills and action from that situation ! You could mix in some other race or Klingon’s to act as villain force if need be.
I just want to know if the new Enterprise got a little bit of a boost of technology as a result of the Kelvins scans of Nero’s ship. Please can someone answer this? I just want the new look of the Enterprise to be justified in canon.
i liked the idea of utilizing the orion syndicate
Yes, #316. Allow me to offer an answer. “No, they did not get a boost of tech from scanning Nero’s ship.” All of the technology is consistent with the original series and none of it is really new. It does, however, look new. New enough that some might argue that it is inconsistent. The difference is that instead of Gene Roddenberry handing some prop guy a $5 and a stick of Wrigley’s to build a set, we now have a budget and CGI. Thank you, 21st century. Thank you.
Why does the look of the new enterprise have to be justified? How is it so dramatically different from the original series? Must it be made of cardboard to be justified? It has nacelles, a saucer section, a deflector dish, a bridge. If I hold up my model of the new ship to the original while flying them around in my bedroom in my underoos, I can’t tell the difference. So they ended up putting blue lighting and sleeker lines on the ship. Maybe the boring unimaginative engineer who designed the original ship died on the Kelvin, and thank god he did, because his replacement did better. Way better.
As for stuff like holographic imagery, etc. well, they tried to do that in the Original Series, but a lot of times we had to use our imaginations along with the TV. I mean, c’mon, the Doomsday device was a paper cone hanging from fishing wire. Why do we have to be so dogmatic as fans? Everyone blasted the show Enterprise when it came out but it was so good. They complained about the theme music, the design, the continuity. ARGH!!!
In conclusion, Thomas, if you like the Enterprise, like it. Don’t feel the need to reconcile it with the dead weight of canon. Because there’s not a lot that has to be reconciled. It all meshes rather well when we lighten up and think creatively about how it can simply be.
After seeing ‘Transformers 2:Revenge of the Fallen’ now, add me to the names that wish to be admitted to these guys ‘hate club’!
And I thought some of their PREVIOUS storylines / dialogue was dire….
Oh, and PLEASE lay off any thoughts of any further ‘timetravel’ / Klingon / or ‘rebooted’ Khan storylines. Just give us something exploring where we’ve never been before, for a change.
@ #318 Dane:
Thanks for the information. I actually love the new movie and the new Enterprise’s look. I was just hoping that there was some sort of explanation for it. I like it better than TOS. I do recall Orci saying that it looks different because of Nero coming back in one of these interviews here on this site, but I was just hoping he meant because of the Kelvin rather than the difference in construction dates. As far as in the story. Obviously in real life, it is because of money and advancements in our technology making TOS look feel irrelevant. I just wanted something that puts the new Enterprise over the old one. But thanks again for the information.
A hate club for O&K?
Oh Please.
Any problems were minor. It was a masterstoke to manage a reboot/reimagined story that still follows canon and the timeline. They honored what they could and shined up the rest. I only disagree with Scotty’s sidekick and some of the engineering sets.
@#320 Thomas:
No prob. I’m one of those “hang onto every word of info” type fans who, when I bemoan the dogma of intense fans, I’m really shouting from a mountain of my own hypocrisy. I guess that, from my point of view, they did a brilliant thing with how they steamrolled over continuity. They focused on story and plot, and in fact everything they did was actually commensurate with continuity (well, mostly…) and they had the guts to not waste too much time bogging things down explaining it. They leave that to us fans to do, which, let’s be honest: any real fan loves to do what we’re doing, picking over the details.
And that’s what we get to do. The reason I say it’s commensurate is because it really does gel with everything that’s come before. The old existential enmity between the FEDs/Romulans, the temporal cold war, time travel timeline changes, even the Romulan holoship from Enterprise season 4 looked like a prototype Narada. It all felt like it built up to this. And so, while they didn’t explain too many details, they obviously considered those details, because the action and outcome could only be this consistent as a result of such deliberation. We got the fruit of their efforts.
So, the only real complaint I have about this prequel is that there is a huge Jar Jar Binks deficit. When will the Federation make first contact with Naboo? If they don’t do the Borg or Klingons in the next movie, I want Gungans!!!
There is no reason this movie shouldn’t be bigger and even better than the first.
Force of Nature AND Villian, including B-story villians for good measure, like Klingons or rogue Andorians or something.
Villian should be a new alien related to said Force of Nature, driving the Enterprise to its wits end trying to solve the problem. As close as you can get to a no-win scenario, but with a little bit of luck and savvy, Kirk & Co. save the day, yet again. But with bruises. Lots of bruises. That’s what I want to see.
=A=
Lets not forget Ms. Ryder.She wants to be a villain(ess).I vote ;an Orion “Green Godess” Crime lord, of one of the Orion Crime Syndicates.
NOT as a main villain, but ,as a recurring character in “New Trek”, & a perennial thorn-in-the-side, of the Federation,(& Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire, etc…).
I have the perfect ending for movie II… sets up a personal vendetta story for movie III.
The Enterprise has taken a battering at the hand of _____, unable to go to warp, a device will soon detonate that will consume the E along with much of the local system.
Kirk is desparately giving orders to try anything, but the mains are offline.
Spock, hearing the reports, steathily leaves his station without the captains notice.
The view shifts to other scenes: Uhura trying to contact star fleet, Checkof trying to pronounce the letter V, McCoy being a doctor, not an engineer.
Kirk being captain. “Capt’n, the mains are back, but you better get down here.” Kirk turns and realizes that Spock is not there.
“Sulu, best speed out of her and you have the conn”, Kirk exclaims.
He runs, slides down ladders and ultimately arrives in engineering to find scotty and mccoy standing a looking at a small antechamber filled with smoke. Someone is in there. “It’s Spock, Cap’n. I told ‘im not to go in, but he dinna pay me any mind. You canna’ go in there, sir. You’ll flood the whold compartment.”
“I’m sorry, Jim, there no way he could survive that.”
Reaching for the comm panel, Kirk shouts, “Spock!”
A raspy voice replies, “Yes, Captain. You know I never took the Kobayashi Maru test. What do you thinkg of my solution?”
“Spock…”
“It is for the best. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. I am, and shall continue to be your friend.”
(A person crawls toward the glass barrier… It’s Spock Prime.)
“Live long … and prosper.”
A moment later, Spock comes from behind one of the engine components. “He disabled me, then joined his Katra to mine. I must get it to new Vulcan…”
What do you think?
269. fubamushu – June 20, 2009 I agree with your points. However, and this is very important, the people who made the new show were very clear that they were not making a science fiction movie. They don’t like science fiction.
278. Odkin – June 20, 2009 Correctamundo.
284. fansince66 – June 20, 2009 Are you an attorney? Are you saying a person who posts some plot point on this board automatically relinquishes all rights to it simply by making it “public.?”
I think they should re-do “Spock’s Brain.”
Wasn’t it cool the way Spock was so emotionally compromised he had to give up command only to show up two minutes later ready to go on a rescue mission? That was awesome.
329
I think they should have Spock smooch on the transporter pad right before they go down to save the universe. They could incorporate that again into a remake of “The Way to Eden” (which is an episode I still like by the way)
I’ll leave it to these guys to write a great story. They have my confidence.
What concerns me are some of the tidbits thrown out there:
The studio wants a completed script by Christmas. With these guys already busy scedule, that might not be long enough for a good, well thought-out script.
The studio wants the next film “as soon as possible”, presumably May 2011. Why rush it? Timelines are not always good for the creative process. Wouldn’t Christmas 2011 work as well?
As evidence, I point out the new film being pushed back from Christmas 2008 to May 2009. I would love to know the refinements that where made during that 6 months. Perhaps it made the difference between an ok/good film and the very good film we were given.
#326,327,328,329
mr mugato, you’re a troll. And an idiot. I don’t use that term often on these boards, but it fits you.
Yes Anthony, the O&K hate club is up and active!
What they should do is obvious to me:
Have the M5 computer which was installed on some other ship
destroy the Botany Bay and many other Federation ships, before being destroyed by the Enterprise.
All in the teaser.
And of course, Kirk finds a way to beam any Lifeforms off the ship first.
Then the awesome exploration story can begin.
Ooh! How about we kick the Vulcans while they’re down. Have someone mention that they’re building New Vulcan on Ceti Alpha 5!
325–Wow. The ending blew me away! Bravo!
Back tot he question. The ONLY way I’d like to see Khan is if the Enterprise runs across the Botany Bay and Kirk screams, “SHOOT IT!”
I say, bring in the Romulan Commander from Balance of Terror, the one who told Kirk before he self-destructed, “You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend.” Show them picking up the pieces from Nero, making sure that the Federation doesn’t blame the present-day Roms, and that the Roms don’t start a pre-emptive strike. All the while, have the decimated Klingon fleet (47 ships lost!) make a big noise, wanting to swoop in while the others are weak. That could be the thread that carries over into a third movie.
“314. Thomas Tanner – June 21, 2009
I just want to know if the new Enterprise got a little bit of a boost of technology as a result of the Kelvins scans of Nero’s ship.”
The most commonly held belief on the internet is “yes”. In addition, the destruction of the Kelvin caused Starfleet to adjust their design philosophy somewhat. For example, the Enterprise in the new ST launched much later due to being larger, technologically superior & more heavily armed than she was in the TOS series. It’s a shame her shields don’t really work though. :(
However, Bob has yet to directly confirm any of this, even after two related questions were asked of him in the Q & A. For what it’s worth, I believe one of the answers was “Butterfly Effect”. :)
i like #5 idea.
Lets see a story where the vulcans have been given a planet that others felt they had claim to.
Those others see the destruction of the vulcans as a race as the only solution to the problem otherwise they will simply do the same thing to someone elses planet.
Because earth sides with the vulcans various attacks on major cities are enacted by anti vulcan terrorist.
The capture of these terrorist leads to a full scale war that last for three years.
The movie deals with the crew of the enterprise and their part in the war over that time.
Why not have a contest? Say fans submitt ideas and the best 10 are selected….then the best 5, etc…..
A couple of thoughts about Star Trek II (A)…Two words: More McCoy. Two more words: More Pike. I’d love to see more mentoring for Kirk. He went from cadet to captain in…what?…a couple of days? I’d also think we’re set up well for a sequel based on the destruction of Vulcan. what would that do to the collective psyche of the survivors? Would the refugees be able to maintain control of their emotions and logically agree on the direction of their future? I doubt it. Seems ripe for dramatic possibilities. Would a Vulcan “villian” naturally arise? not one driven by revenge but one with a more extreme POV? (Has there ever been a GREAT Vulcan villian?) Finally, I’m in the camp that the next movie should be original but would be cool to reference things that might have taken place between the movies. For example, we see the ship from the Corbomite Maneuver and Balok is an ambassor between the federations. Or we see a Horta or a Gorn. maybe McCoy jokes about the transporter accident that split Kirk into two beings. Or other first season key events. It would be nice to acknowledge the passage of time and that the new timeline isn’t completely divergent from the prime universe.
#332. Brian Kirsch – June 21, 2009
” #326,327,328,329
mr mugato, you’re a troll. And an idiot. I don’t use that term often on these boards, but it fits you.
Yes Anthony, the O&K hate club is up and active!”
Funny how mr. mugato never once in those posts calls somebody a troll or an idiot or associates anybody with a ‘hate club’.. in fact #327 contains one word: Correctamundo.
And now for my next trick I will comment on how I think the concept of an environmentally centered villain is waaaay cooler than the next Khan or Nero or Sybok or whatshisfacejeanlucclone..
carry on..
#250—”WNMHGB: I thought the point was that they had been ordered to cross and explore beyond the galactic barrier and came across the old style distress signal on their way.”
I’ll consider that an excuse to watch it again sometime in the next couple of days (as if I needed one!), but my memory of it, as of now, is that the old distress call is what causes the Captain to order the Enterprise that close to the barrier to begin with.
“The Galileo Seven: The Enterprise was exploring Murasaki 312, though arguably, only as a sidebar to their mission to transport medicine. However, the Enterprise chose to stop and study. I would have to lean toward putting this one in the exploration column as that is what they are doing at the opening.”
I think it is, as you describe it— a “sidebar”. And that is really the extent of my point. My intention is not to suggest that the characters do not end up in an exploratory role within the story—only that it isn’t the specific mission to which they are assigned in the episode, as the story begins.
#254—”Isn’t it funny how the other two (TMP and TVH) feature giant nebulous devices of mysterious origin that threaten the destruction of the Earth if they don’t get the answers they are seeking?”
Yes, but more interesting than the similarities are the differences, IMO.
In one instance (TMP), the crux of the story is formed by the solving of the ‘mystery’—while the resolution itself is quite quickly constructed within the story once the protagonists begin to understand the question. In the other case (TVH), it is the ‘mystery’ which is solved quite quickly—and it is the protagonists’ execution of the resolution which provides the bulk of the story. But in both cases, the protagonists are (even if only eventually) somewhat sympathetic to the motivations of the antagonist.
In TWOK, the protagonists have no sympathy for the antagonist—as he is a pure villain, despite naturally having provided himself with justification for his vengeance. I have never bought into the notion that Kirk had any responsibility to “check on (Khan’s) progress”—-as Khan made a conscious choice in “Space Seed” to accept exile on Ceti Alpha V rather than face imprisonment in a rehabilitation facility. I think that the obvious hindsight that Kirk should have forced the latter upon him has nothing to do with concern over Khan’s welfare or that of the twenty people who died on Ceti Alpha V. In the telling of TWOK, the audience is afforded no olive branch of sympathy for the villain—as Khan (even though his loss is real) is culpable for his own predicament.
In ST09, only Spock Prime (due to his own feelings of guilt and responsibility over his failure to save Nero’s homeworld) has any sympathy for the antagonist. Unlike Khan, the pain inflicted upon Nero is unsolicited by his actions in the backstory provided by the film. But while the audience is allowed to empathize with him to some degree, it is quite clear from the beginning that he is not seeking justice, but vengeance and an avenue for making others suffer as he has. He may succumb to villainy by tragic circumstances, but it is true villainy he embraces nonetheless.
Compare these four stories with “Arena”. In that story, the Gorn are initially perceived as being villainous. It is only the belated dialogue made possible by the Metrons which causes Kirk to concede that their motivations might have been that of self-defense and self-preservation (something with which he can identify)—-at which time Kirk begins to understand the flaw in his initial response. There is, in fact, ultimately no clear villain in the story. As is often the case when there is conflict, both sides regard themselves as morally just—and the other as morally unjust.
Bob,Alex,et al.;
The only criticism I have is that ST09 wasn’t a television pilot. Thanks for a great experience that my whole family enjoyed thoroughly. We’re looking forward to seeing Transformers. Good job.
Please no more Khan!
Just out of curiosity, did anyone see the news article with the Russian “scientist” who thinks the Tunguska blast was actually caused by an alien ship throwing itself in front of an approaching asteroid? At least, that’s his theory, and he says that discovered in the blast area recently were some strange hunks of what look like quartz with strange engravings on them….
Of course, the scientific community claims it’s a hoax, but hey, it sounds good, right? (Here’s a link to the story: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/tunguska_event_040812.html. Copy and paste into your browser, ‘cuz I’m not that good with HTML.)
So, how’s this for the beginnings of a plot – the Big E has to find the race that essentially saved our planet in the early 20th Century and say thanks, but as usual, things don’t work out as planned. (And since when did facts ever get in the way of a good story? I’m just sayin’……..)
Let’s see what happens to the poor Vulcans in the sequel. Will they fade away like the Tolkein elves, or take another track? Will they start going insane without their homeworld, or become terrorists, committng ’suicide by cop’? Or will they pitch their old ways and scatter like dust to various places, including Earth?
And what of Spock? Sure, he’s Starfleet- but when the stuff starts hitting the fan, how will he react? And Uhura? Let’s see more ladies! Please!
Let’s also see how the impact of losing so much of Starfleet’s people and ships affects things. Lots of green people in important positions- will Pike have to be recalled to space service? Will he become a real father figure to ‘padawan’ Kirk?
Since you guys are dealing with pre-Where No Man Has Gone Before, how about a little more backstory on the life of James T. Kirk?
I realize it won’t be the “prime” Kirk backstory, but I’d like to get a little more info on George Samuel Kirk Jr.
It actually leads to a question I have for the writers, since I know they read this…
Why wasn’t Sam Kirk in the movie? Worse, you actually PUT him in briefly, but changed it–at least based on something I just read.
Apparently, the kid young Jim yelled at while driving the corvette was supposed to be Sam Kirk. In the novelization, it IS Sam Kirk. I even heard that there was more footage filmed with that actor, who was supposed to be Sam Kirk. Yet all those scenes were not only cut, but Jim yells out “hey Johnny” when he was driving by. Why? Even if for pacing purposes the Sam Kirk scenes were cut, how come you changed the name of the kid Kirk passes? If Jim yelled out, “HEY SAM!” instead of “HEY JOHNNY,” what’s the big deal? The long time fans would know exactly that we’re dealing with Jim’s brother, and the newbies would have just figured it was some friend. Why the change?
Curious.
#341. Not to remove your excuse to re-watch WNMHGB, but Memory-Alpha has the answer in Kirk’s opening log:
“Captain’s log, Stardate 1312.4. The impossible has happened. From directly ahead, we’re picking up a recorded distress signal, the call letters of a vessel which has been missing for over two centuries. Did another Earth ship probe out of the galaxy as we intend to do? What happened to it out there? Is this some warning they’ve left behind?”
It seems pretty clear that the mission was to “probe out of the galaxy” and that they came upon this probe which was there only to set up an explanation for ESP and the choices Kirk would later have to make re: Mitchell.
What I find interesting is that despite the premise of the series being one of exploration, the premise of “The Cage” is that they receive a distress call. It is fitting then that the premise of WNMHGB is one of exploration, despite the fact it was not the first episode aired, and a premise very few succeeding episodes tended to duplicate.
no offence guys but if i had written Transformers 2 i would not admit it in public or show my face…what a stinking soulless one-dimensional piece of brain dead trash!!!!!!!!
I WANT MY MONEY BACK!!!!!!
#347—-Agreed. The phrase “as we intend to do” suggests that the Enterprise was already tasked with crossing the Great Barrier before discovering the signal.
#348—If you were looking for something more than a relatively mindless action film, why on Earth would you choose ‘Transformers’ to begin with?
I saw the first one with my kids, and it was pretty much what I expected it to be and a little more. I actually was surprised to find it mildly entertaining.
But then again, I wasn’t expecting to see the next Academy Award winner for Best Screenplay either. Michael Bay movies are what they are, and I’m sure that writing for him means a pretty good paycheck. No one should be ashamed of making a good living.
“no offence guys…”
Yeah…right.
350 – I liked the first one, it had a nice charm about it…but the second one has none of that…I know you don’t go to see this type of movie for the acting or script or character, you go for the robot fights, but come on give the audience SOMETHING CLOSE to characterisation or plot… it can be done star trek had great action and great character moments…
#352—-I haven’t seen the second one, and may not until my kids inevitably want the dvd. I took them to see the first one, but they are old enough now to be dropped off to see it on their own. From the trailer, it looks like just more of the same with bigger explosions.
353 – your right about that…it seems very clear…..star trek is the movie of the summer…maybe the year!
The sequel to STXI should be about a completely alien culture that our crew has to get to know and help them resolve some internal conflict that reflects in some way what is going on here on Earth in reality. This is wagon train to the stars after all. It would be great to have a very meaty plot with lots of character development, with perhaps a tragic romance for Kirk. Certainly have some terrific special effect sequences but let our favorite crew really do something to help another society on another planet. Let them get involved and show their acting chops. They are up to it.
355.
Perhaps have a rogue planet/race not abiding by the Federations demands for no cloaking research/technology, as this will create a arms race.
The rogue planet/race does not listen and is defiant, continues to test the technology in the face of of the Federations demands, sanctions are imposed and the enterprise is sent on a peace keeping mission where Kirk starts the war with the Klingons. How the crew came together was explained in part 1 and in part 2 you have how cloaking technolgy came to be and how/why the Klingons are at war with the Federation.
If Gene was alive today, surely he would have wrapped star trek around the North Korean/Iraq crisis and make a comment about the govt and society as a whole.
One of the things that made trek so successful (as far as movies are concerned) is the chemistry of the cast and crew which developed over a long period of time,they got to develop friendships and grow with thier characters from 77 hour long television shows,22 animated half hour shows,literature,comics, and conventions…..in which WE as an audience got to grow with those characters as well……in other words:….they paid serious dues……I ve got an Idea……lets put the new crew to a test….let them do an animated series…..STAR TREK. CGA….. STARRING THE VOICE TALENTS OF: Chris Pine as Kirk
Zachary Quinto as Spock
Karl Urban as Dr McCoy
You get the Idea.
boborci,
Are you coming to the Star Trek Las Vegas convention? To me it seems as if everyone (sans Mr. Quinto) are avoiding the convention scene. It would be awesome if you could make an appearance. Thanks.
#335 – Thank you.
Regarding #325 …
I didn’t see this as anything to do with Khan, rather just a symmetric ending to that movie. It would make fans of ST:TWOK weep, and new fans .. .well … surprised.
Of course, I don’t know if Mr. Nimoy wants to repeat that scene, but it would be very interesting.
Another twist would be to have Sarek on board as well, and have both Katra’s in young Spock’s head.
The next picture could then be about Young Spock’s need for revenge against whoever caused Spock Prime and his father’s death.
Mr. Orci … what do you think?
1600 hrs per character to develop……..It is logical to assume that authenticity becomes far more potent than monetary and technological means.
#359 Fascinating
#356—”If Gene was alive today, surely he would have wrapped star trek around the North Korean/Iraq crisis and make a comment about the govt and society as a whole.”
He may have made a general allegory toward the overall state of international relations, as he did in TOS, but I don’t recall GR ever taking a side on a foreign policy issue. Gene wasn’t as politically controversial as he is sometimes made out to be. In fact, his stance on American foreign policy seemed to be quite conservative (as would be expected of a WWII veteran and former police officer).
Take “A Private Little War”, for instance. Kirk’s ultimate decision with regard to Neural pretty much echoed the then-current U.S. policy toward arming anti-communists in Southeast Asia. He even references it directly in his debate about it with McCoy (who, although fearful of the consequences, admittedly has no alternative solution which to offer his captain).
Star Trek’s stance on such issues wasn’t controversial at all. It was completely in line with the Truman Doctrine.
Let’s cross two plot lines… a Borg Khan would be magnificent! :D
no…i’m not serious :)
#348 –
Just curious, but when did pay to see it. It doesn’t open until Wednesday?
I also won 2 advance screenings to see Transformers 2, but decided to give the tickets to a friend. Wasn’t feeling well and wife did not want to go either, she is a transformers fan. We discussed it and there is no urge to see it, it seems all the ssame. I just hope star trek 2 does not end up like transformers 2 from all the reviews, I have read. My friend will tell me tonight if it was good…I don’t blame orci/k more than I do Bay, he seems awfully burnt out from making these kinda films.
I love the idea of a trek movie with no villain. I think these guys can pull it off. Honestly, do they have to save the universe *every* time?
Well first thing’s first in my agenda: Put out a complete director’s cut of the new Star Trek. (and of Generations with the original opening, torture scenes and the original ending plus a new cut of Trek V!) With the $ being made from this film, there will be demand and a buyer’s market for these flicks to justify Paramount (and other parties) to do so to make a little extra on the side.
I feel the new film was wonderful, a great step forward yet keeping the characters and magic alive. Reminded me of watching VI on the big screen and half of Generations. TNG films just didn’t cut it IMO. Anyways, back on track. After finding info on the deleted scenes, the new film would benefit greatly on home viewing. James Kirk’s scenes with his brother, the birth of Spock and of course the whole Rura Penta (sp) subplot with Nero and the Klingons. Definitely add more backstory leading up to the next..
I agree that a trek film without a so called villain will not be a $ maker in today’s CGI market. Even though I love TMP, it was what it was. A masterpiece for its time which made $ because it was the first live action trek in 10 years! A classic. However, a film with a stereo type villain such as in revenge/world conquest will be very tiring! These have been done too many times in the films. Khan was great (Montalban’s performance did it!), Kruge was decent but not great, Klaa was a joke and Chang was underdeveloped. Soran from Generations was wonderfully played by Malcolm McDowell, but reminded me of Khan. The sequel should have these elements:
- The aftermath and fate of the new vulcan
- spock’s and uhura’s relationship
- sarek and spock’s conflict
- federation and romulan treaties (Nero brings them closer from his actions perhaps)
- scene with Pike & Kirk
For all these doubters, I do think Khan would be a wonderful “villain” if done right..such as in “Space Seed.” I have yet to watch this episode again, but from memory the whole conflict was not about a klingon or romulan empire but was based on what HE THOUGHT WAS RIGHT. Not based on a political body but on what he believes in. I can see why Khan’s a hot topic. In this film we find out why he becomes so revengeful in the ‘82 classic. (damn TWOK is older than my ‘86 mustang! That’s old!) But done right, he can become a villain who we actually CARE for instead of hating.
Ok this is long. Sorry folks. The next film no time travel! The Gorn and/or Orions would be a plus indeed! I say make the director’s cut with the new film, leave the klingons out of the next one!! (leave them for the third) and make this more character driven/villain driven so that we don’t know who to vote for. Gorn would be nice, Orions also.
One more thing: Hell’s Guard (Romulan) and Saavik!
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I don’t think Bay is hated because his films have been financial successes. He is hated because the films he makes are complete and utter piles of crap.
#370—-”I don’t think Bay is hated because his films have been financial successes. He is hated because the films he makes are complete and utter piles of crap.”
In that case, alot of people seem to enjoy his “complete and utter piles of crap”—hence the financial success which follows most his his work.
Lots of people in the industry make ‘crap’. That doesn’t make them hated.
Agreed that ‘hated’ is probably too strong a description to be used.
Let’s just settle for ’strongly disliked’…..
Imagine if Bay did Star Trek, the Enterprise would have red flames around it and Kirk would be a UFC fighter, Spocks hair would be dyed blue or green. Bay is a great director but sometimes he just doesn’t understand how to preserve what worked or be modern without pissing off the fans. There are some things you can do and somethings u can’t and Bay, I felt always chose the latter. Fugly looking robots that is like playing with plastic toys versus metallic, and that any grade 6 can draw in their sleep. You don’t see people complaining about Star Trek like how people thought Transformers was disrespectful to the original designs and storyline.
Pity the toy designers of the 80’s are no longer around, the toys of today suck. Give me a 80’s transformers versus a Bayformer any time.
The Klingon’s are looking to strike back at Romulus after losing so many ships from JJ-ST. They approach the Federation and don’t believe the stories about “future Romulans”. They vow an unending bloodwar against the Federation. In a subplot, the Andorian Government (compromised by Romulans) are trying to exercise more control of the Federation in the absence of the Vulcan presence. As war breaks out between the Federation and Klingon Empire. The Andorian and Romulans lauch their joint plan to wrest control of the sector. The remants of the Federation and Klingon Empire must now join together to stop the Andorian/Romulan alliance as it launches an armada to destroy Earth. Beyond all hope the crew is ordered on a suicide mission to destroy the Andorian Government. Kirk finds a sympathetic ear in the former Andorian Government who is convinced she can end the conflict once her voice is heard. Kirk then against risk of mutany and Federation reprisal for disobeying orders sets out to restore the Andorians to the Federation.
Bring back the DOOMSDAY MACHINE!!
As a Star Trek fan, it would be great to see them ditch the villain archetype, and go into some kind of morality/philosophical tale driven by the exploration and discovering of new worlds. After all, that’s what TOS was all about.
But from an objective point of view, as much as Star Trek XI was character driven, it was also an all-out villain-driven action movie, which lent itself really well to amazing action sequences and special effects. If they go with exploration/philosophy them, it would have to calm down. I don’t think many non-fans would be very happy with a toned-down film, they’d want a movie that upped the ante. So I think they are stuck with having to use a villain-archetype if they want to top Star Trek XI. Otherwise, all the new fans they gathered with XI will be lost, which defeats the purpose of the whole re-boot.
Hmmm..for the future film i think they should check out the book Star Trek: The First Frontier by Diane Carey and Dr. James I. Kirkland. It is an EXCELLENT reading…
Hmmm..for the future film i think they should check out the book Star Trek: The First Frontier by Diane Carey and Dr. James I. Kirkland. It is an EXCELLENT reading…
They could try to do an exploration plotline, but the’ll have a better chance of financial success with a genuine antagonist.
On the subject of Klingons, I think that while there’s plenty of reasons to try and create new villains, we also need to reintroduce critical elements of Star Trek. I suggest that the next film should not only feature Klingons, but they should play a critical role in the plot.
One feature that distinguishes the Klingons from other “classic” alien enemies in sci-fi such as the Daleks or Goa’uld is that they can also be allies. Therefore, the conflict in the next film should essentially be Good Klingons & Enteprise v. Bad Klingons. Perhaps we could introduce one of the “classic” Klingons – Kang, Koloth, or Kor – as a Klingon commander who fights alongside Kirk and comes to view him as a friend. He would then be a recurring character, similar to Shran on Enterprise.
why is everyone saying “i want the bad guy to not be a person and be something like nature, cause its never been done before.”
it has. in TMP. Vyger was a machine who obtained a conscience and searched for the meaning of life. He was pure logic and defiantly NOT human. i thought there were smarter fans out there than this.
TWOK is my favorite followed by ST. But please. No Khan. it would be impossible. though i do agree that kirk and khan were destined to meet, just not again please.
why not have a species like the xindi reptilian who still thinks that needs to be destoryed in order to save his own species, it would be cool to see species like that appear in the next movei
Hawaiowa said”
As the 12th century Crusaders looked upon the Hagia Sophia and asked themselves “how the f**k did they do that, because we certainly can’t”,
Just a little history lesson…the Crusaders would have NEVER asked how did they do that…because they DID in fact do that…for a 1000 years before it was a mosque it was an Orthodox Church…the Church of the Holy Wisdom. The christians built it…not the Muslims…just an FYI
It seems to me that Klingons are required… given that they have had 20 years to study the Narada. Even though they aren’t known for their engineering prowess, the Klingons should be able to utilize the Narada tech for a decided technological (if not tactical) advantage… which would require a “superior intellect” (KHAAAAAN!!) to truly overcome.
The decision to deal with Khan could easily drive a wedge between Spock and Spock Prime… and you’ve got the 3 hours of fistfights and ’splosions we all want..! :D
I would absolutely love to see nature as the villain. Something obviously from great theory, but “M-Theory” would be my vote, only because it is so fascinating.
M-Theory. Need I say more :)