Exclusive Excerpt From Upcoming Nicholas Meyer Star Trek Memoir June 22, 2009
by John Tenuto , Filed under: Books, Feature Films (TMP-NEM) , trackback
A generation ago a young upstart director had the temerity to shake things up in the Trek franchise, and result was the classic Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, beginning a decade long relationship for Nicholas Meyer. This summer Meyer will recount his years with Trek in a new memoir, and TrekMovie has an exclusive excerpt, along with more Meyer summer 2009 news.
Meyer’s Star Trek
In the 1996 Official Star Trek 30 Years Collector’s Magazine, the editors listed the 100 most influential people to the success of Star Trek. Rightly on the list was director Nicholas Meyer who is described as bringing "unconventional" style to Star Trek with a philosophy of "design for the future with an eye to the past." Meyer wrote (without credit) and directed Star Trek II, co-wrote Star Trek IV, and co-wrote and directed Star Trek VI, all considered to by many to be the best of the classic crew films. And although Meyer is always happy to talk about Star Trek, be it at lecture halls or on DVD commentaries (the new Blu Ray discs includes not only a new commentary track but a very moving tribute by Meyer to Ricardo Montalban), fans have never had a definite telling of his experiences with Star Trek. That changes this August when Viking Press publishes "The View From The Bridge – Memories of Star Trek and a Life in Hollywood" by Meyer,
which can be pre-ordered now from Amazon.
Viking Press describes the book Thusly
An enormously entertaining account of his involvement with the Star Trek films: STII: The Wrath of Khan, STIV: The Voyage Home, and STVI: The Undiscovered Country, as well as his illustrious career in the movie business. The man best known for bringing together Sherlock Holmes and Sigmund Freud in The Seven Per-Cent Solution had ironically never been interested in Star Trek until he was brought on board to save the film series. Meyer shares how he created the script for The Wrath of Khan, the most revered Star Trek film of all, in twelve days — only to have William Shatner proclaim he hated it. He reveals the death threats he received when word got out that Spock would be killed, and finally answers the long-pondered question of whether Khan’s chiseled chest is truly that of Ricardo Montalban. Meyer’s reminiscences on everyone from Gene Roddenberry to Laurence Olivier will appeal not only to the countless legions of Trekkies, but to anyone fascinated by the inner
workings of Hollywood.
MEMOIR EXCERPT
Excerpt of "The View From The Bridge – Memories of Star Trek and a Life in Hollywood"
Star Trek II – Shooting part ii
Interestingly Kirk and Khan (how did their names both happen to start with the same letter?) never get to play a scene together in the film. Did I notice this would be the case? I can’t say I did—nor did anyone else ever comment on or worry about it during the shooting, though Bill Shatner remembers a long discussion about the need to have a physical fight scene between the two men that he says was eventually scrapped for budgetary reasons. I can’t say I miss it. Kirk and Khan do have a “phone” conversation of sorts of the type now common on iChat, and it was interesting to compare their styles and to learn how I could contribute to Shatner’s performance.
On Star Trek VI, Christopher Plummer told me that he could tell that Shatner would be a star when he watched him subbing for him in Henry V one night at Stratford, Ontario. “He did everything different from me,” Plummer recalled, “and that’s when I knew . . .”
And if there was one thing Shatner knew, it was Captain Kirk. But the Kirk of Star Trek II was a bit different from the character of the TV series and the first film; he was aging, he was off his game, he was depressed (Captain Kirk depressed? This really was going to be different), and now he was in the fight of his life, up against a superintelligent opponent whose only weakness was his obsessive hatred of Kirk. Khan has given him a minute to surrender the details of Project Genesis. Kirk, forced to put on reading glasses beneath the contemptuous glare of his implacable foe on the forward viewing screen, plays a desperate gambit and stalls until finally turning to Khan and telling him, “Here it comes,” before he proceeds to hammer Khan’s hijacked vessel with torpedoes.
The first time Shatner delivered “Here it comes,” his sneer dripped off the lens. “Bill,” says I, “this guy is some kind of über genius. You telegraph like that, he’s gonna raise his shields in a second. Let’s try it again.”
The second take was similarly heavyhanded but, as it happened, no good for sound. (A stratagem I had contrived beforehand.) The third take, I think the focus was soft—and so on. Eventually Shatner became bored and when he got bored he got good. He dropped the attitudes he was prone to strike and instead became Kirk, with no trimmings. It was a good trick to stumble on and it happened early enough in the shoot that I was able to make good use of it throughout. (The only difficulty was ensuring that Shatner, who got better with every take, did not have to appear in a two-shot with someone who was at his best on take one and thereafter deteriorated.) When all’s said and done, however, a director can only do so much; Shatner’s triumph in the movie is his own, the product of his own intuition and his gift.
Montalban knew he was not a good judge of his own work (“I don’t know what I’m doing out there . . .”), but many actors are convinced they are. And this despite the fact that so far from being objective, actors frequently pick the wrong roles in which to appear, let alone the wrong takes. Shatner was no exception. He would come up after the shot and say softly, “Take three was best for me.” I would always nod and make a note of it, regardless of whether it was the take I wound up selecting. Similarly, if an actor wants another take and I have time, enough daylight, and I’m not blowing up a bridge behind him, I will always give it to him. Why should an actor have to go through the movie feeling his best work is getting away from him, even if he’s mistaken? There’s always the possibility that (a) it will get better or (b) he’ll feel he’s not been cheated or (c) it may not be better, but it may give you an idea for something you hadn’t thought of that will be better.
William Wyler, Stanley Kubrick, and Warren Beatty are known for doing scores of takes, John Huston and Clint Eastwood for doing very few. Which is correct? Can you tell the difference watching their films?
Nimoy had long since figured out how to play Spock. “I never played Spock as a man with no emotions,” he explained to me early on. “On the contrary, I always played him as a man of deep passions who was continually struggling to keep them in check.”
I didn’t need to say a word.
—————–
Reprinted by arrangement with Viking, a member of Penguin Group (USA) Inc., from THE VIEW FROM THE BRIDGE by Nicholas Meyer.
Copyright © 2009 by Nicholas Meyer
"The View From The Bridge – Memories of Star Trek and a Life in Hollywood" by Nicholas Meyer is due out in mid August. It can be pre-ordered now at Amazon.com. In August TrekMovie will have an author interview and early review of the memoir.
Meyer Book Tour
This autumn, Meyer will tour to support the book at these locations:
- August 25 at 7:00 PM Book Passage (Corte Madera, CA)
- August 27 a 7:00 PM Book Soup (Los Angeles, CA)
- September 2, 7:00 PM Borders Northridge (Northridge, CA)
- September 10, 7:30 PM Warwick’s (San Diego, CA)
- September 14,7PM Prairie Lights (Iowa City, IA)
- September 15, 7PM Barnes & Noble, East 86th St. NYC (New York, NY)
Book Soup offers those not attending the signing event a chance to get a signed edition of the book. Details are at booksoup.com.
MORE MEYER NEWS
University of Iowa Meyer Collection Star Trek Exhibit
Nicholas Meyer is a graduate of the University of Iowa and the library there houses an amazing collection of his papers. From now until July 1st, the library is having a special exhibit curated by Greg Prickman called "Where Many Have Gone Before: Relaunching Star Trek." The free exhibit includes items such as the first Star Trek fanzine from 1967, Spockanalia, early fan club material, and highlights from Nicholas Meyer’s work on the Star Trek movies: a script, storyboards, and correspondence from Star Trek II, Meyer’s reactions to the first draft of the Star Trek III script, an early version of the Star Trek IV script, and concept art from Star Trek VI.
TrekFest Tenuto Presentation on Meyer
Speaking of Iowa, next week (June 26-27) is the annual TrekFest in Riverside, Iowa which is about 20 minutes from the University of Iowa, and TrekMovie’s own me (John) will be presenting rare Star Trek photos from the The Papers of Nicholas Meyer Collection before introducing stars Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols, and George Takei on June 27th.
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Comments»
First! How cool – great director.
I like Nicholas Meyer and his work. He’s a very interesting story teller who isn’t afraid to talk about his works, but like a respectable magician, he doesn’t give away too much information.
Nicolas Meyer-
“Sound dominates picture. There are no exceptions.”
GREAT excerpt from the book. Among the most thoughtful and interesting pieces I’ve read about the actors, approaches, and characters.
“Nimoy had long since figured out how to play Spock. “I never played Spock as a man with no emotions,” he explained to me early on. “On the contrary, I always played him as a man of deep passions who was continually struggling to keep them in check.”
I didn’t need to say a word”
Seems like most everyone knew better than to tell Nimoy how to play his character.
Wonderful stuff on directing Shatner.
A shame NM didn’t become more ubiquitous in Hollywood as a writer/director. We got him for 3 Trek films, and we’re fortunate.
“…and finally answers the long-pondered question of whether Khan’s chiseled chest is truly that of Ricardo Montalban….”
That was answered in Nimoy’s autobiography, “I Am Spock”, in the section on TWOK. x3
YES, HIS PECS ARE REAL. Really.
I will definitely have to at least flip through this. Looks really fascinating. =)
Would’ve been interesting to see his version of StarTrek09, or at least hear what he would’ve done. I’ve always thought that VI is one of the best, but if he’d been given a budget like JJ’s, I can’t imagine how great it would have been, let alone what he could do with today’s tech.
Interesting, but much of this is mentioned in his commentary on the DVD. I am more interested in his IV and VI comments. Haven’t seen those.
Have to say that, while I enjoyed VI. I didn’t love it. Some of the politics was a bit heavy handed. The whole “this president is not above the law” is a real doozie. Wow! He’s not a bad gut like that Nixon! We get it. The idea of Kirk being Nixon going to China was brilliant, and sufficient. And the pompous-ass military guys were a bit too over the top. I find gross stereotyping of “hardline-nincompoop-military-bad-guys-that-want-to-take-over-the-world-unless-their-civilian-betters-keep-them-in-check” trite. How great would it have been to have a character more like Dryden from Lawrence of Arabia? The world weary but wise diplomat hiding his cynicism behind some solid realpolitik and advice? Memo to JJ for the next one: Kirk encounters a Federation version of this character.
And I thought the ending went too fast. I would have liked to spend a bit more time on the bridge one last time.
Interesting, could be a good read :)
I have a hunch he probably enjoyed the newest movie, for the same reason(s) Star Trek 2 worked so well. Can never say for sure, though.
I always loved his commentaries in the DVD directors edition. I always felt like they needed to give him more time to tell the stories.
Big budgets usually are not the whole story in the end. It is ironic (at least to me) that the film that cost the least of the entire series is probably the most beloved… and in a lot of ways, I feel today’s mega-hundred millions of $$ budget movie directors/producers could learn a thing or two from the likes of Mr. Meyer.
For my money, I will still take STTMP for Gene’s vision, but for pure action and excitement both TWOK and ST09 are hard to beat.
I’ll look forward to reading Meyer’s remarks. If he writes prose as well as dialogue and as he directs, this read should be.. dare I say it? …. fascinating.
What I’ve heard of his TWOK DVD commentary was brilliant. I may have to check this book out…
#10
are you kidding me? TWOK and trek 2009 were two TOTALLY different movies and if I were Meyer I would be insulted to compare Abram’s Trek with his.
Now…that Nicolas Meyer book sounds fascinating. Talk about a teaser there.
And I don’t really think it’s fair to say he had all that much temerity. Other than the uniforms he didn’t stray away from what we all knew.
#14: Dude, chill out.
Of course, the two films are different. I would hope the 27 years separating them would lead to two different kinds of film product. Heck, to some degree, we have a totally different audience with different sensibilities and expectations today. If “Star Trek” were to lay stagnant for that amount of time, it would deserve to die.
Why should Meyer, or JJ Abrams for that matter, be insulted? That is like saying Arthur C Clarke (were he alive today) should be insulted by the works of Isaac Asimov (same remarks) just because they were different.
Quit creating emotional controversies where there are none.
—
One thing I have enjoyed about listening to Nick Meyer’s film commentaries are that they actually are about filmmaking…
I think this shall join Dan Brown’s upcoming book on my “to buy” list!
#14-It’s always nice to have someone come out, phasers blazing!
Meyer sounds like a very talented and generous man and Director. No wonder his movies rocked.
Does anyone else out there want to see this man involved in Star Trek again??
Seriously, I would love it if Nick Meyer got involved in something related to Star Trek. Even if it was just a consulting job. The man created (hands down) the best Star Trek film of all time.
This does look like an interesting read. I’ll look forward to it.
20 – I think that would be a great idea.
20
They should get him involved without question. I think I read somewhere Roberto Orci said he would love to see more movies in the prime timeline (or was it another TNG movie?). Let Meyer direct his own Trek movie in the PRIME timeline, be it another TNG movie or something post spock disappears into black hole..
they could throw him 30 million and he would probably make the best TNG movie to date, send them out with a proper exit.
Yeah, Meyer did a great job with his Trek movies. Shatner actually asked him to write “Star Trek V”, but Meyer was unable to because of his schedule. And Rick Berman actually approached Meyer to direct “Nemesis” at one point, and Meyer said he would take the job only if he could re-write the script. Berman already promised John Logan that his script would not be altered, so Meyer passed.
Oh the possibilities…..
Shatner hated the script for Khan. What do you Shat lovers have to say about THAT???
I love William Shatner. His Capt. Kirk was my boyhood hero, and still, to this day, his TOS and movie performances resonate with me deeply.
I’ll never know firsthand what he’s like to work with , but when so many of his ST fellows have lodged the same complaints about his behavior on set, and when he, in turn, has repeatedly professed his innocence and ignorance of where such reactions could possibly have come from, well … it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that something’s rotten in the state of Shatner.
I enjoyed the above excerpt from Nick Meyer’s book, even as I sat here shaking my head in disbelief at the number of takes it took to get Shatner to deliver “Here it comes” as memorably and perfectly as he finally did. It’s hard to read and accept the sorry truth about an actor who has brought so much to my life through his performances.
Nevertheless, I look forward to Meyer’s account. Through his work and his commentaries, it’s clear that he’s an excellent judge of character and knows exactly how to extract brilliant performances from the actors in his charge.
#26
- …It’s hard to read and accept the sorry truth about an actor… -
Why “sorry truth”? Sometimes, the scenes that look the most simple are the most difficult to perform. And the fact that eventually it was delivered that perfectly, speaks in Shatner’s and Meyer’s favor.
Nicholas Meyer has a very keen eye for handling actors…great psychological directing!
I love it…thanks for this fantastic article.
Trekwebmaster
#27
It’s not about the number of times it took Shatner to deliver the performance he finally did. I was commenting on Meyer’s assertion that it was only when Shatner became “bored” with repeating the scene over and over that he dropped his “attitude” and “became Kirk.”
“Sorry truth” speaks to my reluctance to accept that Shatner, the man I idolized for his performances as Kirk, wasn’t himself an idol. He was difficult to work with. He wasn’t perfect. He was human. We all are. I was just saying that it’s hard for me to reconcile the “two Shatners.”
For the bulk of actors, it’s all about them — it takes a particular kind of person to want to be in the spotlight. But they need good writing and direction. The first season of TOS (except when he was called upon to emote) and movies I, II and III were Shatner’s best Kirk for me. He had a ridiculous idea for the fight that didn’t happen between Kirk and Khan in one of his books — although it’s hard to tell when Shatner’s joking — where he thought Kahn shoul d have a glove that turned into a panther claw and then an eagle or something (these were the Beastmaster years, methinks). Them not meeting was probably the best part of the movie — the fight in Space Seed (where he beats Khan with a PVC pipe) was weak.
Later, Shatner just started playing himself. Even in TWOK, there were some dodgy attempts at sarcasm that didn’t work that well… still an awesome movie and performance.
I’ll get killed for this — but I actually find Nimoy’s Spock fairly uneven from episode to episode and in the different movies, beyond the differences called for in the script (like Kohlinar and the resurrection). HIs TWOK Spock is probably my favorite.
God, I love Nick Meyer.
Isn’t it ” It’s coming now, Khan.” ?
@32
Yes, at one point he says… “it’s coming through now Khan”
but just before attacking, he says… ‘here it comes”
Would love to hear Shatner’s reaction(s) to Meyer’s evaluation of how to get the best performance out of Shatner.
Meyer is a very intriguing gentleman – a Renaissance Man. Plus he gives off a Harlan Ellison vibe too.
The book should be a real treat.
#34 Shatner’s well aware of it. Practically everything said in that extract, is in the book Star Trek Movie Memories by William Shatner.
It’s not a new revelation. I believe Meyer himself is quoted on it.
30 – i think shatner only played shatner in Trek V and Generations…one where he directed himself and the other the first time film director probably just let him get on with it
Looking forward to reading the book. After finally seeing the new TREK film this past Sunday night, I can say without any doubt that Meyer directed and wrote the best movie in the series, THE WRATH OF KHAN.
I think Meyer’s observations are spot-on regarding how to get the best out of Shatner.
If you go back to first-season TOS episodes, the very best, most compelling Kirk episodes were one where Shatner delivered a measured, deliberate performance, as if that tendency to ham it up were creatively and constructively redirected and tempered. Conversely, think of some of the worst of the franchise, and many of those were where Shatner was, well, arguably more Shatner than Kirk.
Shatner’s measured performance was arguably the best of any of the movies. By taking away the hamminess, he was arguably a more intense, more compelling character…
I think it goes to the credit of Meyer as a director to recognize it, too. As I recall, he watched all the Trek episodes to get a feel for the series when he was signed on, and I suspect he recognized the same thing.
25. Anthony Thompson: ‘Shatner hated the script for Khan. What do you Shat lovers have to say about THAT???’
Before you get too excited by Nick Meyer’s remark (what is the weird, almost sexual thrill Shatner haters get when they hear anything that could be construed as bad about him?) remember that following that meeting with Shatner, Nick Meyer tweaked the script draft and Shatner left a message on Meyer’s answerphone calling him a ‘genius!’
Shatner, like anyone sensible, was concerned about being in a cut-price Trek film being made by some blokes who had no connection with Star Trek. Nimoy was no more keen and only did the film on the condition that, Janet Leigh-style, he get abruptly killed off in Khan’s initial attack on the Enterprise.
Meyer has proven himself to generations of Trek fans with three Trek movies. Back then no one knew who the hell he was!
Can’t wait to get a hold of this!
I adore The Shat, but hey, I adore Ellison as well. I figure I don’t have to work with either one, I can just concentrate on the aspects I like and push the other stuff into the background. Life’s too short to deal with the emotional foibles of people you don’t actually associate with ;)
“Shatner hated the script for Khan. What do you Shat lovers have to say about THAT???”
He had the same concerns that a lot of fans had when they heard about the plot. Spock dying? A depressed Kirk? A more militaristic Starfleet? **I** was seriously concerned myself and I read the script while they were still filming it. But there were obviously tweaks and the actors and director delivered marvelously. Please remember that they had gone through numerous scripts for this film and nothing was working. Meyers used the best elements from several and came up with TWOK in a matter of days.
I’ve always been a Meyers fan so I’m really looking forward to this book.
#39/Dom — “what is the weird, almost sexual thrill Shatner haters get when they hear anything that could be construed as bad about him?”
Ain’t it the truth. It’s so funny — Niimoy does no wrong and Shat nothing right. And yet, Nimoy was a pretty tough cookie in the day. HE is the one who sued Paramount over royalties. HE is the one who only did a Trek movie if they killed his character off (TWOK). HE is the one who refused to do a cameo in Generations. All good choices IMO, but gosh, imagine if Shatner had done those things!!!!
[Oh wait, he didn't want to do a cameo (that was never offered anyway) in the latest movie and got skewered for it.]
I know this goes against the grain of popular Trek culture, but I didn’t like Meyer’s directing. I think he took something that only needed to be enhanced (Star Trek TOS) and instead, he changed it to make it HIS. Bulky uniforms. Bulky hardware. Long, drawn out scenes (Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan). Overall, Nicolas Meyer’s Star Trek. Dull, boring and visually cumbersome.
However, I suppose his book will have some interesting anecdotes, as he was there. Wasn’t he?
Nicholas Meyer, what a thoroughly bloody nice chap he seems as well as being very articulate and intelligent. Ultimately in my mind this is the man (along with Harve Bennett) who saved my beloved Star Trek from it’s near death throws after TMP and whilst I have enjoyed Abram’s, Kurtzman and Orci’s new vision – I will be forever grateful for what Meyer did for Star Trek!
Live long and prosper…
The quote in this except expands a little on Meyer’s rather glib version on the commentary track (where he pretty much states that he would wear Shatner down by asking for multiple takes.) This version sounds kinder and more respectful. Meyer was certainly a wunderkind – this shows his maturation as an individual, to my ears.
It would be good to give him another ST movie, with the Next Gen or even the Prime K/S.
i was kinda surprised they didnt get him on the new film in some capacity (consultant, exec producer, script etc)
#25 “Shatner hated the script for Khan. What do you Shat lovers have to say about THAT???”
Typical for Shat bashers to jump to conclusions. Shatner actually DID like the film after Meyer did a re-write..hence his eventual signing on to do the movie.
The difference in performances and how Shatner benefits from being reigned in, are easy to see between II and V. In V he directed himself, the worst case scenario where he’s concerned.
25 et all, Oh how i laugh at people having a pop at the guy (Shatner), who for 40 years has been the center of Trek.. if you don’t like the guy, how can you like Trek, and the Character of Kirk… grow up..
49. That’s easy. The Shat’s, well, often not a nice man, but he plays Kirk, Denny Crane, etc., very well. I don’t like Shat but love some of his characters. So… get over it.
Can’t wait for this book!!!!
Fans of Nick Meyer and Sherlock Holmes should also pick up his excellent Holmes novels: West End Horror, Canary Trainer, Seven Percent Solution and the terrific Baring Gould Holmes Encyclopedia that Meyer references in his novels.
As much as I loved this New Trek I would love to see Meyer somehow involved in the sequel as a writer with O and K, producer or if JJ can’t do it for some reason, director.
2 and 6 are my absolute favs. 4 has the humor. Yes, Nic gave us the superstition that the even ones are the good ones.
Thank you. I will pay cash money for your book, sir.
Nicholas Meyer is a tremendous novelist; with his gift for writing, this should be a great read. He’s also director of my all-time favorite film, and it’s not one of the Star Treks! It’s Time After Time, his brilliant H. G. Wells vs. Jack the Ripper in 1970’s San Francisco film. Such a wonderful, wonderful movie.
#48 “The difference in performances and how Shatner benefits from being reigned in, are easy to see between II and V. In V he directed himself, the worst case scenario where he’s concerned.”
Hardly. In fact, the on-screen evidence proves quite the contrary. Compare Shatners very subtle yet endearing performance around the campfire in Trek 5 to the ridiculously, over- the-top, blood curdling yell of “Khaaaaaaaaaaan!!” in Trek 2. In fact, compare ANY scene of Shatners from Trek 5 to his mad-man scream in Trek 2. if that’s being “reigned in”, then I’m your Aunt Fanny!
#14—” TWOK and trek 2009 were two TOTALLY different movies…”
As they should have been. One was a product of the early 80’s with a mediocre budget (and is arguably one of the greatest B-movies of all time), while the other is a big budget 2009 Summer hit.
“…if I were Meyer I would be insulted to compare Abram’s Trek with his.”
I’ll bet that Meyer is more sensible than that.
It’s hard to deny the similarities between them, particularly the “non-traditional fan” approach, their writing and television backgrounds, and the hardcore fan fears/reactions in some circles to some of the bolder choices each made in his addition to Star Trek–the reaction to what was perceived by some as the “militarization” of Starfleet, and the audacity to suggest that Kirk would ever have cheated on a command test are two things which quickly come to mind.
I think some fans (those who are old enough) tend to forget just how controversial these concepts were in fandom more than a quarter century ago.
#20—”Does anyone else out there want to see this man involved in Star Trek again?? ”
Certainly not as a director, given his aversion to any use of CGI. As good as his contributions were, this is a man whose time on Trek has come and gone. Like Nimoy said of himself, I don’t think Meyer would even know what he was doing in today’s world of bigger budget Trek.
I like his current contributions where they are…nostalgic memoirs and such.
I am a much bigger fan of TWOK (writer/director) and TVH (co-writer) than I am of TUC(writer/director), but Meyer’s contribution to the Star Trek film franchise is undeniable. The former two are among my four absolute favorite entries to the film series—ST09 and TMP being the other two.
#14—” TWOK and trek 2009 were two TOTALLY different movies…”
As they should have been. One was a product of the early 80’s with a mediocre budget (and is arguably one of the greatest B-movies of all time), while the other is a big budget 2009 Summer hit.
“…if I were Meyer I would be insulted to compare Abram’s Trek with his.”
I’ll bet that Meyer is more sensible than that.
It’s hard to deny the similarities between them, particularly the “non-traditional fan” approach, their writing and television backgrounds, and the hardcore fan fears/reactions in some circles to some of the bolder choices each made in his addition to Star Trek–the reaction to what was perceived by some as the “militarization” of Starfleet, and the audacity to suggest that Kirk would ever have cheated on a command test are two things which quickly come to mind.
I think some fans (those who are old enough) tend to forget just how controversial these concepts were in fandom more than a quarter century ago.
#20—”Does anyone else out there want to see this man involved in Star Trek again?? ”
Certainly not as a director, given his aversion to any use of CGI. As good as his contributions were, this is a man whose time on Trek has come and gone. Like Nimoy said of himself, I don’t think Meyer would even know what he was doing in today’s world of bigger budget Trek.
I like his current contributions where they are…nostalgic memoirs and such.
I am a much bigger fan of TWOK (writer/director) and TVH (co-writer) than I am of TUC(writer/director), but Meyer’s contribution to the Star Trek film franchise is undeniable. The former two are among my four absolute favorite entries to the film series—ST09 and TMP being the other two.
I really think Generations killed Shatner for me. That wasn’t Kirk on screen, it was William Shatner. His performance in Trek V wasn’t much better. Kirk’s nexis fantasies wouldn’t be sitting around and frying bacon and riding horses. What a joke.
I, too, am a fan of Meyer. He has consistently put out solid, quality work. I became aware of him after reading his best-selling novel “The Seven Per-Cent Solution.” And “Time After Time” is still one of my favorite films, a fabulous little movie that displays the intimate style that, IMO, made TWOK work. Of all the Trek films I wish he’d had a hand in, TFF (to improve the story), and GEN (to do Kirk’s death some justice) are the two I would pick.
As for being involved in future Trek’s, I would have no problem, but I don’t think it will happen.
Glad to hear Nick has a book on the way. The excerpt was excellent.
#57 – Agreed! I think you hit the nail on the Big Giant Head.
#57—”That wasn’t Kirk on screen, it was William Shatner. ”
Yep. At best, it was a case of the line between actor and character being stepped over. At worst, his performances in TFF and GEN were more “James T. Kirk as William Shatner” than they were the other way around.
“Kirk’s nexis fantasies wouldn’t be sitting around and frying bacon and riding horses. What a joke.”
I wouldn’t think so either. That fantasy seems far more fitting for Jeffrey Hunter’s Pike than Kirk…but unfortunately, Shatner added a “new dimension” to the character in TFF, and carried it into GEN. Obviously, he was the director in TFF, and he was afforded alot of influence over the character in GEN.
Shatner is immensely talented, but I think his best performances often require a firm hand in the director’s chair. As Meyer alluded to, that’s probably true of a great many actors—to be fair. But I don’t think that’s limited to his delivery of lines. As you suggest with your analysis, it may apply to his understanding of the character as well.
Of course, some fans find nothing unusual or questionable in Shatner’s performances in TFF and GEN. All I can say is that it wasn’t what 79 episodes of TOS and four previous films had led me to expect from the character. I was a bit taken aback…and out of the story.
But then… Kirk had just arrived there in the Nexus when Picard showed up so he was a bit disoriented and confused.
I love N. Meyers work on ST 2 & his writing on 4. The movie Time after Time was great. But ST6 was a total dud to me. I just watched it again in the bluray set i bought last night & every joke was a bomb. The changes to the ships I hated. The uniform designs are horrible. The story was a bore. It has to rank next to ST5 as the worst.
To all those talking about how Kirk was best when he wasn’t hamming it up…
Shatner himself has said on a number of occasions that he decided that he was underperforming Kirk in TMP. He had deliberately tried to avoid “hamming it up” and acting as he would in any other Realism/Naturalism film, but it actually didn’t work that well for the character. Subsequently, he made the deliberate decision to “over-play” Kirk in later films.
I think this is because Shatner recognizes that Star Trek is not a psychologically Realistic series. Rather, Star Trek is a melodrama, a form that requires a certain amount of “over-playing,” of “hamming it up.”
The issue is how far to ham something up. Not, “don’t chew the scenery,” but, how much scenery to chew. Shatner’s instincts as an actor performing in a space opera are to go too far at first. Meyer recognizes that it needs to be toned down — the best Shatner Kirk is somewhere in between the low-key Kirk of TMP and the high ham of STV. A little bit of ham, but not too much.
And that doesn’t reflect poorly on Shatner, either. He recognized a legitimate need, and did his best to correct it. Most actors simply are not capable of recognizing when they’re giving too much, but that’s fine — it’s the director’s job to tone them down once they’ve given the director their all. An actor who gives too much at first is a far better performer to have than one who never gives enough.
57/61 – was it bacon he was frying? i thought he was cooking Catarian eggs..the mysterious antonia’s ‘favourite’….
but yeah that was Shatners nexus…the big dog ‘Butler!’ (Shatner likes big dogs) and all the horse stuff….Picard had landed on planet Shatner…if GEN had been made today Picard wouldve encountered ‘Kirk’ at a charity horse show wearing a large cowboy hat, shirt and jeans….
TOS and Treks I, II, III, IV & VI = Captain/Admiral Kirk
Treks V & VII = Captain Shatner
the opening credits on Generations should have said ‘and starring William Shatner as William Shatner’
#65—-”was it bacon he was frying? i thought he was cooking Catarian eggs..the mysterious antonia’s ‘favourite’….”
No, it wasn’t actually bacon. As you say, it was “Catarian eggs”.
“Picard had landed on planet Shatner…”
Lol!
Oh my.
50… Ah the wamrth of some folks.. thankyou.. I am over it (it was a nasty case of hey feaver)..thanks for the concern..
“On the contrary, I always played him as a man of deep passions who was continually struggling to keep them in check.”
That’s a great quote from Nimoy.
And it’s a perfect description of Quinto’s characterization.
#63, yeah, count me among people who find ST VI OK but would rather watch III.
The only thing I can say in defense of “Planet Shatner” (I love that term BTW) is that Picard had a similar cornball fantasy in his nexis experience. So maybe both Captains are repressed Walton Family Members or something.
I have to say that Picard’s nexis fantasy was probably thought of after Shatner’s input was known as to his fantasy nexis, because can you imagine the brooo-hau hau that would have occurred if Picard’s fantasy was more daring than Shatners.
What really bothered me about Shatner’s nexis fantasy is that – based on the movies – couldn’t they have revisited a life with David? Wouldn’t that be the logical choice given the events of II and III and VI?
Wouldn’t him leaving David to join the fight (and ultimately dying) be a lot more dramatic and powerful than him leaving his eggs and horses? What a wasted opportunity.
Uugghh.
All the Shat / Kirk worshippers. I got over this adoration by the time I was 14. Grow up people. He’s an actor – and not I repeat NOT a great one. He is a bonafide ham and a prima donna at that, and not a very good director.
58 – Time after Time is a great flick. No doubtabout it.
One of the best lines about actors is from My Favorite Year.
“I think Alan Swan’s beneath us.
Of course he’s beneath us. He’s an actor.
No, I mean he’s actually below us. ”
As Peter O’Toole is hanging from a fire hose trying to crash a party going on in an apartment below.
#50
You know Mr. Shatner personally? I’m impressed. So you hang out with him, party with him and know from personal experience that “he’s not a nice guy”.
Do you know this first hand are or are you just jumping on the “Shatner bad anyone else good” bandwagon.
This get’s old after awhile.
Agony Booth just posted a hilarious review of Trek V:
http://www.agonybooth.com/recaps/Star_Trek_V__The_Final_Frontier_1989.aspx
Personally, I think Shatner acted Patrick Stewart off the screen in Generations. Kirk had humour, charm and nobility – a perfect movie starship captain. Picard was fusty, uptight and boring – everything that Patrick Stewart had worked so hard to move Picard away from in the TV show!
Certainly, Shatner was the best thing in Generations. It was deeply stupid to kill off Kirk in that film!
Someone correct me if I’m mistaken, but I do believe that the actor who had played David had already died of AIDS by the time Star Trek Generations was in production.
#70 and #71—The actor who played David Marcus had already succumbed to Aids, by that point. And unfortunately, the actress who played Carol Marcus was in a battle with breast cancer, one she would lose by 1996.
But in fairness, we never saw the mysterious “Antonia” either in that sequence. Either previously established character could have used.
In any case, Carol Marcus (”my life that could have been”) would have been the obvious choice to me for Kirk’s nexus fantasy. But that would have required “thought” being put into the process—something we all know was lacking to begin with.
They really should ask Nicholas Meyer to direct a final TNG film. He gave us an amazing sendoff for the crew in Star Trek 6, and I think he could do the same for the TNG cast. The deserve a happy ending!
#72 “Grow up people. He’s an actor – and not I repeat NOT a great one. ”
As far as his acting abilities go, forgive me if I put a little more credence in the opinions of his fellow actors, who awarded him with an emmy, than the opinions of a disgruntled fanboy.
55. Closettrekker wrote: “[TWOK] was a product of the early 80’s with a mediocre budget (and is arguably one of the greatest B-movies of all time), while [ST09} is a big budget 2009 Summer hit.”
You’ve said this numerous times before. I know what you mean, but it’s hard to think of it that way when it was produced for approximately the same budget as “Star Wars” was, with much of the real costs of the film (in those days) already existing (uniforms, sets, etc.) and ILM did the visual effects.
Also, in direct comparison to ST09, in 1982, TWOK was Paramount’s Summer tentpole, and earned the #6 worldwide and domestic top box-office grosser, earning only $30M behind the top #3-5. This is likely the same company ST09 will end up.
While I realize hind-sight is 20/20, for all practical purposes, TWOK and ST09 were equal relative to Paramount’s vision for each at their respective release dates. In fact, an additional comparison can be made in that Paramount was not expecting to make ST09 their Summer tentpole until they saw what Abrams did – only then did they move it to Summer. ST09 was merely going to be a Winter TV franchise revival for the big screen by a TV director who had done well with the last film they gave him. I’m not sure that Meyer’s film hadn’t always been planned for a Summer tentpole, signifying greater confidence in him and the franchise. (They might have been better off in 1982 keeping that Christmas slot, rather than opening against ET).
#80—”I know what you mean, but it’s hard to think of it that way when it was produced for approximately the same budget as ‘Star Wars’ was, with much of the real costs of the film (in those days) already existing (uniforms, sets, etc.) and ILM did the visual effects.”
But Star Wars (1977) wasn’t a big budget movie either.
TMP (especially bearing the costs of Phase II) was a big budget film.
Star Trek (2009) is a big budget film.
Whether planned as a Summer tentpole or not, Meyer was asked to make his movie on a fraction of the budget afforded to TMP. He complied, and the result is a great piece of work done on a relatively mediocre budget. I’m probably stretching the bounds of the term “B-movie”, but if an “A-movie” is a big budget feature, I feel good about it.
61. Closettrekker: “#57—’sitting around and frying bacon and riding horses.’… That fantasy seems far more fitting for Jeffrey Hunter’s Pike than Kirk…it wasn’t what 79 episodes of TOS and four previous films had led me to expect from the character. I was a bit taken aback…and out of the story.”
Three words:
“The Paradise Syndrome”
This is pretty much the definitive episode where Roddenberry got to bring to Kirk some of Pike’s qualities, which were clearly misplaced in a pilot, originally intended for the character. if nothing else, this episode sets up the entire character arc that emerges in STII, whether Meyer was aware of it or not. If it’s not clear enough from canon, they add emphasis by comparing the sacrifices of command with Picard’s fantasy. Given what we were shown, I would not say Kirk’s initial actions in the Nexus are out of character at all – just a lousy way to send off James T. Kirk.
Sadly, TMP ended the same way ST09 did, yet skipped over all of the potential that movie set up. They clearly realized their mistake in TVH and set it up again, only to revisit the same old themes from the previous three in TFF and then called it a day in TUC and maintained the status quo in GEN. Extremely sad way to end the lives of these classic characters. ST09 truly has the opportunity to take us where no TOS film has gone before.
#61 & #57 – and judging from the size of Kirk’s gut over the years, yeah, I’m pretty sure he fried a lot of bacon. ;-)
How does Paradise Syndrome establish anything? Kirk had no idea who he was.
#82—”Given what we were shown, I would not say Kirk’s initial actions in the Nexus are out of character at all – just a lousy way to send off James T. Kirk.”
By that point, it is difficult to call it “out of character”, since Shatner had already added this dimension somewhat to the character in STV. The Kirk we see in GEN is an extension of the one we saw in TFF.
I think that “my life that could have been…but wasn’t” would have been a far better expression of Kirk in “The Nexus”. That line in TWOK suggests that Kirk made a choice to leave Carol, in search of something else in life.
#84—-I agree. I think that Kirk, in “The Paradise Syndrome”, is acting much like a newborn child, over time adapting to the environment in which he finds himself. He finds some degree of happiness because he doesn’t know any different. But at the same time, he also has a suspicion that something isn’t quite right.
#83—Something like that!
#84 & #85 – not the body of the episode per se, but the teaser prologue:
Spock & McCoy have trouble pulling Kirk away as he gazes off at the idyllic setting, prompting McCoy to ask: “what’s wrong Jim?”, to which he finally romanticizes: “what? oh nothing, just so peaceful, uncomplicated, no problems, no … command decisions, just living.”
As for Kirk’s amnesia, he may not have known who he was vis-a-vis Kirk, but the essence of who he was is evident. Kirok was Kirk without Starfleet. He nevertheless readily accepted this life of simple joys rather than to pursue any other course of action (not that he had a choice even if he remembered who he was). Had circumstances unfolded differently, he would have likely gotten bored with this life and set out to explore and lead here as well (indeed he had already begun to build an irrigation system), just as he would have eventually done in the Nexus.
#87—-I still don’t think that any of that suggests that his fantasy in the nexus would have been what we saw in GEN. It’s not that it is a completely illegitimate choice (particularly after TFF). I just disagree with the creative direction.
When Kirk complains to McCoy (who of course, is not fooled) about where he would rather be, it isn’t about horses and big dogs.
“I wish I were on a long sea voyage somewhere; not too much deck tennis, no frantic dancing – and no responsibility.”
I still think better of “(Kirk’s) life that could have been…but wasn’t”—meaning a life together with Carol. It’s a natural direction to go.
Butler and the horses were all Shatner. Berman let Bill have his way with Jim Kirk. No question in my mind.
In the end, the result would have been the same. Picard would still have coaxed him out by the same method. He is who he is—a man of action by nature. But I still would have had trouble accepting any scenario where Kirk took a backseat to a bald guy who drinks Earl Grey tea…
:)
Meyer is a great director who understood the dynamics of Trek without knowing much about Trek going in, and he churned out some outstanding entries because of it. I really wish he wrote (and directed) the new Star Trek film.
Please. A brief respite from command duties does not mean we discovered the real Kirk in the two minute prologue of Paradise Syndrome. I think anyone would agree Its nice to sometimes be relieved from the pressures of duties (see vacations) but to say that is the essence of Kirk is ridiculous. What Paradise Syndrome does stand for, is that if the circumstances were different, perhaps Kirk would have been happy to live off the land. Even during Paradise, Kirk realizes something isn’t quite right and tries to take command of those people.
In my view, McCoy’s comments to Kirk in Trek II are the essence of Kirk, and one of my favorite parts of the movie :
I’m your doctor and I’m your friend. Get back your command. Get it back before you turn into part of this collection. Before you really do grow old.
Do you think the Trek II Kirk’s would be happy chopping wood and cooking bacon? I doubt it. I doubt it and I think it was a bad decision.
jeeze guys – for the last time Captain Shatner wasnt cooking BACON!!…it was catarian eggs – ‘her favourite’….he even got Picard to search for the origono and got him to stir them….
oh and Shatner DID realise something wasnt quite right in the nexus…there wasnt any toast until it magically appeared!
seriously though – in regard to Kirk being content to chop wood and fry bacon instead of whatever idilic scenario that was suggested in TOS or TWOK…as people get older their wants and desires change…where once Kirk wanted nothing more than to command over people by ‘Generations’ he wanted the life that command and duty and obligation had taken from him….chopping wood, cooking eggs and riding horses!
^70,71,76,77, indeed Merritt Butrick died two years before the production of TUC, which unfortunately gave reality to the scenes of Kirk looking at the black-framed picture of David Marcus in his quarters.
^64. I hadn’t read of Shatner being self-critical about TMP but I agree with his assessment: Kirk is very stiff in that movie. On the other hand, TFF has Shatner mugging unbelievably, for example the face he makes to show Kirk’s disapproval when McCoy teases Spock. Shatner does create a newly energized and happier Kirk in TFF, but there are a lot of awkward moments that could have been more nuanced.
We all know Shat owns a bunch of horses & he wanted to show his riding skills & it something Shat loves & he added it to Kirk.
Can he direct the next Star Trek, or is he retired? I wonder if it would pull him out of retirement. JJ had mentioned that he might not direct it. right?
#91—”…where once Kirk wanted nothing more than to command over people by ‘Generations’ he wanted the life that command and duty and obligation had taken from him….chopping wood, cooking eggs and riding horses!”
Only because that is the direction Shatner took the character beginning in STV. Prior to that, we had no indication that Jim Kirk’s fantasy was really just Bill Shatner’s.
:)
#94—-Meyer, like Nimoy, wouldn’t know what to do in today’s world of big time moviemaking. Making a film like “Star Trek” today is a world apart from what it was 18 years ago. Meyer has even expressed an aversion to CGI. As good as he was, his time on Trek has come and gone. Let it rest in peace.
Christopher Nolan has expressed an aversion to overreliance on CG, I guess he is past his prime in your mind as well?
Geez, if you are the target audience, it is just as well that most talent is going to HBO instead of making theatrical features.
#97—-That was totally uncalled for, and completely off the mark.
What I said was that his time on Trek has come and gone. And that doesn’t mean that I have any less appreciation for his work (he’s still working now). The point was simply that making a film like Star Trek today involves things which Meyer (like Nimoy) has no clue about.
And there is a big difference between Nolan’s (and Abrams’, for that matter) aversion to “overreliance” on CGI and Meyer’s vow never to use it at all. That was a poor analogy…
Makes you wonder how the BSG that Meyer was going to direct for Brian Singer a few years ago would have been done, doesn’t it?
If you mean making a trek film today includes having to check your brain at the door, then Meyer would be a bad choice. Hell, Meyer has done flicks with only half his brain in gear (TUC for one), but at least that half has got something of interest and value beyond dubious eyecandy.
You probably did get the trek you deserved.
#99—”Makes you wonder how the BSG that Meyer was going to direct for Brian Singer a few years ago would have been done, doesn’t it?”
Since it obviously never did get done….not really. It’s no wonder at all.
“If you mean making a trek film today includes having to check your brain at the door, then Meyer would be a bad choice.”
There was nothing more intellectual about Trek when Meyer was directing it back in 1982, nor was TWOK (which Meyer wrote and directed) a story with any fewer weaknesses and contrivances to it.
As for ST09, it hardly requires leaving your brain at the door.
“You probably did get the trek you deserved.”
The Human Condition:
—-The psychological significance to a young man of a paternal relationship (regardless of whether or not the father is alive or dead) is explored through both of the story’s two main characters.
Social Commentary:
—-We also see the blatant racism depicted in Vulcan society in its treatment of Spock, and that arrogant bigotry is only mildly toned down (in the form of underhanded praise) in the council scene as compared to the Vulcan equivalent of the schoolyard playground. Indeed, Spock’s biracial heritage is perhaps even more socially significant today than it was 43 years ago—particularly given that such a large portion of the population (including the current US President) now deals with similar cultural issues in their lives.
Philosophy:
—-Add to that the philosophical ground covered in the fatalistic/deterministic manner in which certain events and relationships in the story are almost naturally predestined, and I would say that this film gives the audience more than enough to chew on besides a couple of hours worth of action.
Meyer’s themes about aging and life/death in TWOK, as well as his transparent and elementary post-Cold War allegories in TUC fail to solicit any more thought from the audience than ST09 does.
Star Trek’s intellectual value has always been dramatically exaggerated by much of the fanbase. Get a grip. If I deserved anything more thought-provoking from Abrams, then I deserved more from Meyer too.
This was just a Star Trek movie. Get some perspective.
I have perspective … DISTANCE, in fact, since I have no interest in paying to see this movie with the TREK name on it. They’ve disregarded both surface and core elements of what made TREK work for me, and it seems they have replaced them with pseudo-mythological claptrap, plus, based on the trailer, a batch of soundNfury to cover the design and cinematic errors.
Making TREK over into some latter-day TOP GUN with STAR WARS-style it-is-ordained arbitrary plotting … I’d HAVE to leave my brain at the door, along with my heart, if I were to appreciate that kind of assassination.
And what Meyer did with a batch of pre-existing scripts in a matter of days to get TWOK made seems better, much better, even now, given that these folks had a lot longer and a ton more resources at their disposal. More evidence that art usually thrives on restriction (not that this excuses many of TUC’s failings, I’ll grant that.)
#101—Your loss.
By far the most entertaining film of the year.
And no…the ‘core elements’ of Trek have not been replaced.
It is still very much an optimistic vision of Humanity’s future in which Mankind does not destroy itself, but instead, unites to conquer the social ills which plague it today…
…All the while getting back to what really made TOS such wonderful entertainment to begin with—-action, adventure, romanticism, sexuality, humor, drama, rich emotion, and—what’s that word again? Fun?
Too bad you missed it.
103,
Ahh, go rent WATCHMEN. Entertainment value + a brain + some measure of respect for source material.
There’s a dif between ‘fun’ and ‘dumb fun’ too.
And I hope someday soon people point to this as the single most annoying and moronic use of chromatic distortion in the history of motion pictures.
Did you all know that Nicholas Meyer will be a panelist at the West Hollwood Book Fair on October 4th? (12:45-1:30pm)
He’s also doing book signing at the Dark Delicacies booth!
http://www.westhollywoodbookfair.org/