All this talk about respect for old fans is BS. The universe has been remade and the old fans dumped on by the new ones as well as the producers of the new movie series.

This should never have taken place in a new time line. The new actors should have been permitted to join the existing universe. It is only the laziness of Abrams that they did not. A skilled writer can make a good story out of anything. Rebooting the series show the new producers are creatively bankrupt. The new movie shows this as this is another revenge story where the bad guy gets it in the end- yet another remake of the wrath of khan.

Besides, if this were the same universe, Spock could have returned to the future and Kirk would have been waiting for him- one consequence of an altered time line.

It seems everyone is behind this reboot. I guess all that people want are special effects and revenge stories and action over and over and over and over again. Seems more like a rerun than any of the old TV shows. At least they had variety.

As for Kirk, Closettrekker is right. There is no way to mitigate his ignominious death without marginalizing his character further, in what could only amount to an insignificant cameo which would only have meaning to some fans. The same goes for Spock. He would have to have even less screen time in a film which needs to otherwise devote its entirety to showing us what Star Trek can really do now … not dwell on what we’ve had for 40 years.

We did get closure with Shatner’s Kirk…disappointing as it may have been.

This last movie destroyed Vulcan as a major part of the plot. It would be extremely interesting to see the storyline begun in the first movie continue….and at least a portion, even a small portion, of the movie devoted in some way to showing where the reconstituted Vulcan people settle.

So, I for one would like Nimoy to be involved again …. how about in way that would somehow allow us to also get closure with Shatner’s Kirk?

I believe you have just summed up the entire nature of the Star Trek fan base!

LOL!

Which is precisely why we shouldn’t assume they have gained any advantage over their corresponding position in the Prime Timeline.

“Orci has already said Scotty will not be able to use warp-beaming because it is just too dangerous. Spock made the calculations so it is one-time only.”

Even if they cannot make regular use of the technology due to its impracticality, knowledge of the formula alone would encourage and aid advancement in the field of physics and transporter technology far ahead of where it was prior to Spock Prime’s decision to empart with it. At the very least, such advancements would be accelerated.

And of course, Orci’s commentary on the matter isn’t “canon”. Unless something like that becomes part of a future story that Orci writes, other future writers would not be hampered by anything like that. He can, should that be important to him, make it canon by writing it into the sequel—but until he does so, it is fair game. We’ve seen it done already, and the imprecision of it on that occasion can be attributed to Scotty’s current lack of experience with it.

“To support your claims about Spock you are giving the Federation the benefit of the doubt while completely discounting the changes which may have affected the Romulans and Klingons.”

I’m afraid that is a result of having quite a bit of information about what it has done for the Federation, having very little information about what it might have done for the Klingons, and no reason at all to believe that it has done anything whatsoever for the Romulans.

We’ve seen tangible results for Starfleet, while we have seen nothing of what it has done for the other powers in the quadrant. I am willing to assume that the Klingons have benefitted (since they did hold the Narada captive for an as yet unspecified amount of time), but I also have to temper my assumptions with facts: 47 Klingon “warbirds” were still defeated/destroyed by the Narada in 2258; and Klingon scientific research is canonically established as lacking in attention, prestige, and resources.

“Considering the Federation knows about the Romulans suggests the nature of the relationship is considerably different.”

The Fedartion already “knew about the Romulans” some 77 years before the attack upon the Kelvin, since they not only fought a war bewteen 2156 and 2160, but verbally negotiated a treaty to end that war. The only thing clearly different about the nature of their relationship by 2258 is that the Federation is formally aware of the apparent similarity to Vulcans—and presumably, all that required was a routine debriefing of the Kelvin survivors and an investigation into the attack. Anything beyond that is not only purely speculative, but without any basis at all.

While the Romulans *could* (theoretically) have been affected in some way by the appearance of the Narada which expedited their techonological advancement—-we simply have no reason (unlike the tangible proof with Starfleet and substantial reason to believe with the Klingons)at all to believe it happened.

“…what does PS say? “Sorry guys, you’ll have to work this out on your own?”

Essentially—-yes.

“I’m sorry, but however you slice it, PS’s presence in this universe is a problem. The sooner he goes away the better.”

As always, it is only a question in need of answering if the writers allow it to be in the first place. Just as has been done in Star Trek for decades, a convenient plot device will no doubt rear its head in order to prevent our heroes from using an intergalactic “lifeline”.

“Communications are down”, “transporters are currently inoperative”, “we’ve lost warp power”—–whatever it should end up being, Trek stories have often managed to get around the “why don’t they just…” questions by premptively eliminating the option to begin with….and it doesn’t require killing Spock Prime to do so.

1) We don’t know anything vis-a-vis the Romulans about what happened in the alternate timeline between 2233 & 2258. In fact there may not even be a Romaulan Nuetral Zone anymore. Considering the Federation knows about the Romulans suggests the nature of the relationship is considerably different.

2) Orci has already said Scotty will not be able to use warp-beaming because it is just too dangerous. Spock made the calculations so it is one-time only.

While you suggest I assume too much about what we don’t know about the Klingons and Romulans, I think you assume too much about what we don’t know about the Federation. To support your claims about Spock you are giving the Federation the benefit of the doubt while completely discounting the changes which may have affected the Romulans and Klingons.

Finally, it has already been established in previous canon that the Federation is not above corruption nor a hawkish branch of pro-war expansionists. Clearly a black-ops division must exist in this Federation especially considering the addition of significant unknown threats. To that end, I find it highly unlikely they will let him go free with the knowledge he has in his head. Whether we ever see Spock again or not, it may not be his choice whether he divulges this information or not.

Nevertheless, your entire argument hinges on something we don’t know … which is how strong the Federation is and how strong their adversaries are. So suffice it say, we can debate the evidence for both sides, until we have calluses on our fingers, but will get no closer to an answer until we are shown canonically what the state of affairs are in this universe.

Either way, Prime Spock will still be around in this universe. Whether or not he feels his knowledge of the future will be applicable due to the weakened state of the Federation, or will only harm the respective partie’s “growth”, does not discount the fact that the Federation, or even Kirk or Spock will feel compelled to ask questions. If Kirk and Spock come upon an undefeatable 20th century bad guy named “Khan” who is to say they won’t phone in a question to their buddy PS and ask what he knows. In which case, what does PS say? “Sorry guys, you’ll have to work this out on your own?”

I’m sorry, but however you slice it, PS’s presence in this universe is a problem. The sooner he goes away the better.