Orci Talks (Again) About Linking Next Two Star Trek Movies + Saldana Says Script ‘Half Done’ | TrekMovie.com
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Orci Talks (Again) About Linking Next Two Star Trek Movies + Saldana Says Script ‘Half Done’ July 25, 2009

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Orci/Kurtzman,Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

All indications from Paramount over the last few months have shown they are anxious to keep the ball rolling with the Trek franchise and get another movie out ASAP. Now it appears they planning for the long term and want the creative team to be thinking two steps ahead. The latest news comes from a comment from Bob Orci at Comic Con. Also at Comic-Con, Zoe Saldana says the next Star Trek script is ‘half done.’

 
The new Star Trek trilogy takes shape
The latest indication of forward thinking comes from a comment made by Star Trek co-writer Roberto Orci at a party at Comic Con to io9. When asked if he could give an update on the latest meeting with Paramount about the next film, he said:

Nothing was decided [at the last meeting]. It was really about, hmmm. You know what, I’ll give you a tidbit. [They said to us] ‘We thought maybe you could do that as like 2 and 3.’

This is actually not the first time Orci has talked about the third film from the new team. Back in June he told Collider that the team were thinking about linking the next two films, saying:

In terms of thinking about more than one movie, we want the movie to be self-contained in a way, but we’re discussing the idea of having a couple of threads where if the second movie works, you could pick up into a cohesive whole.

At the time Orci cited the Spock/McCoy ‘remember’ scene in Star Trek II, which was picked up in Star Trek III.

Of course it has been reported before that the new crew are all up for options for two additional films, so it makes sense for the studio to be thinking long-term. Studio bosses have been touting Trek as one of their key franchises moving forward.

The question now is, how far will they take this link between the second and third films? An extreme case would be to go as far as filming them back to back, which has been done before, like with the Lord of the Rings films or the last two Back to the Future films.  One thing is for sure, it looks like there is more Trek in our future.

UPDATE: Saldana Says new script half-way done
And in another development, Zoe Saldana (Uhura) tells SciFi Wire that the script is "half-way done". This doesn’t mesh with what the writers have been saying, but Saldana offered this:

I do know that they are germinating a script. That’s what they told us a month and a half ago, which actually means—in that kind of talk it means that they’re probably halfway done with a script. They just can’t present it to anybody. But they’re very excited, and there is a lot of pressure, because now it’s like, ‘Oh, do you do The Wrath of Khan or do you do this or whatever?’

Saldana also noted she believed production for the second Star Trek film would commence in 2010. Others, including Bruce Greenwood (Pike) have also suggested a Summer 2010 timeframe for production on the Star Trek: Something Something sequel.

 

 

Comments

1. mdbchud - July 25, 2009

One epic story filmed back to back……dare we hope to have 2 summers in a row with Trek???!!!!

No Khan!!

2. zanzibar - July 25, 2009

It doesn’t get much better than that.

3. Jeyl - July 25, 2009

After the Transporter, what fun Treknology will they screw up next? A hand phaser can penetrate a star ship’s shields?

4. Loskene - July 25, 2009

This sounds like a cool idea. I personally prefer the option of an ending which hints at a sequel but doesn’t necessarily require one, like the ending of the first Matrix film

5. Son of Spock - July 25, 2009

This is relevant to my interests.

I Vote Yes.

6. John from Cincinnati - July 25, 2009

I would like to see the third movie finish off right before season one from TOS is supposed to begin. Then, Prime Spock goes to the Guardian of Forever to restore the timeline.

7. Kilo-Three-Zero - July 25, 2009

I think the “remember” thread is a good way to start ideas for linking Star Trek: Something Something and Star Trek: Something Something Else. I always thought that was the absolute most subtle way of making a sequel without specifically mentioning anything like a sequel.

@1: I too don’t wish Khan a major role in ST:SS, but maybe a mention would be good. If it fit into the plot, that would be fantastic. If not, then a nice little throwback.

8. Anthony Pascale - July 25, 2009

@Kilo

“Star Trek: Something Something Else”

I love it!

9. Kilo-Three-Zero - July 25, 2009

@6: Care to explain why Spock HAS to fix the timeline? I don’t remember anyone claiming Kirk HAD to fix the Mirror Universe, or why no one’s complaining about how different it is to the Primary timeline, like the Abramsverse is.

10. jas_montreal - July 25, 2009

”‘We thought maybe you could do that as like 2 and 3.’”

They were referencing wrath of khan and search for spock there. Now that would be incredible. But these movies MUST be self-contained in a sense. Thats sometime Orci just stated. Which i should say is gratifying !

Now the question comes… the BIG QUESTION fans are asking themselves….

‘What Story do you use , that will be worth telling through two movies ?’

Now thats the million dollar question. Possibly starting a Khan storyline can be interesting…. but it may alienate some ‘new fans’ or the ‘mainstream’ audience. If they choose to pick up some old ideas from the trek universe…. They really really need to balance it well. Otherwise… it can be a huge disaster… it’ll just look like a fan-boy’ish movie…. Now thats the fine line Robert Orci and Alex Kurtzman have to be carefull with at the moment. Good luck to them on the story development !

11. Schultz - July 25, 2009

I’d go for a completely autonomous sequel, because ST09 was more or less only the introduction to the new timeline. We need a good and *real* Star Trek film next, something that can stand on its own, with a monolithic plot. After that they could do parts 3 & 4 as two closely tied sequels, shot back to back. In the TV series they’ve written huge arcs, so it could be interesting how this works in the movie realm.

12. Datalore - July 25, 2009

I doubt that a villain will take up two movies…More like what they did with the old trilogy (2,3,4) when the fallout and circumstances from each movie will carry over in a larger arch. That, if anything, is what I really missed from all of the TNG movies. All were self contained episodes, and when they finally tried to show some progression in their lives in Nemesis, the movie sucked big time.

13. N - July 25, 2009

I don’t like this idea. They just can’t stop trying to mirror TOS movies. If one of the movies is bad whose going to look forward to the next one. Or vise versa. Plus it forces you to watch the bad movie just to connect it to the better one. They need to be stand alone movie episodes. I don’t care if they film them both at the same time just keep them separate.

If we get the Space Seed for #2 & TWOK for #3. I’ll skip them!

Just imagine if ST:TMP was linked directly to TWOK. I can’t watch TMP as much as I can TWOK.

14. screaming satellite - July 25, 2009

Star Trek 2 – Klingons/Romulans v Federation….end the film with the klingons or a starfleet vessel finding the botany bay (like when Gordon hands the joker card to batman)….

Star Trek 3 – Khan vs the klingons/romulans vs the fereation…

you know youd love this so dont pretend otherwise!

15. jas_montreal - July 25, 2009

@ 12. Right on !!! You took the words from my mouth !

16. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - July 25, 2009

We”ve thrown this around. You Know Khan’s sleep ship will be seen into the closing credits of the next film. Guaranteed. That will likely be the link with a Bardim Space Seed in the Third film. I want to see some sort of Cosmic Twilight-Zoney phenomina in the next film. Not a cardboard villian of the week. If you want to set it against the backdrop of war with the klingons then fine (Maybe the Organians?) then we can return to villian of the week with a Juiced up Bardim-Khan in the third

17. David B - July 25, 2009

NO Khan please.

What should the films be about, look at the past week and figure it out.

Man’s ability to explore and undertake the impossible and make it possible. Taking the giant leap, achieving the unachievable and showing us once again the reason we look to the heavens for our next adventure.

Star Trek is not about villiains, please do more than just that.

18. jas_montreal - July 25, 2009

@ 16. You thought Nero was a ”cardboard villain” ?

19. Scottm - July 25, 2009

I’ve written this before, how about an epic with space battles, Federation wins but at a huge cost so that in the future it’s weaker and isn’t the “all powerful, technobable empire”. This way there’s the possibility in future movies that the Federation can loose – instead of us always knowing that they’ll win in the end. When the outcome is believably doubtful, story telling is so much more fun.

At the end show the burned out hull of the Botany Bay drift by, collateral destruction of the battle. All hands lost. No Khan this time around, New Adventures! New Voyages! Go Boldy Where NO ONE Has Gone Before!

20. tman - July 25, 2009

Following a thread from 1 film to the next is very easy to do if the conflict in the first movie is more intimate in scale and fits into the conflict within the 2nd.

If you look at Bond, Casino leaves some unanswered questions but is closed ended in terms of it’s story, Quantum puts the events of the first film in a larger context. It’s easy to envision many stories in Star Trek that would look like that. You could have for example a break out of hostilities between the Klingons and the Federations in the 2nd film with the Enterprise on a scientific mission being diverted to a “Kobayashi Maru” scenario that Kirk’s inexperienced crew barely survives, then have the Enterprise rapidly repaired for nominal battle-readiness and sent to secure a planet that has strategic significance either as a diplomatic overture or to defend the settlement (classic trek). The planet itself could have wierd stuff going on (think Solaris or Forbidden Planet) or political machinations (though it would be good to get into sci fi for a change). After resolving the issue and surviving, Spock and Kirk realize that the event fit into a larger context of the conflict with the Klingons and follow that thread into a 3rd film. You could have the internal conflicts of Kirk’s dealing with self doubt and Spock deailing with his brutal Vulcan nature in his relationship with Uhura pursued continuously through the 2 movies. Frankly, this is not a particularly creative way to do it, but an example of what could be done.

21. N - July 25, 2009

What happened to Explore Strange New Worlds, Seek Out New Life & New Civilizations To Boldly Go Where No Man Has Gone Before? Instead all we are getting is Space Battle movies. As an TOS fan I want more of Gene Roddenberrys concept. And as an TOS fan I never felt like TOS movies ever really got it right.

22. Angry Trek Fan - July 25, 2009

FOR GODS SAKE—NO KHAN. Dont even TOUCH IT.
Let the fan boys go off and make their own crappy Youtube version with horrible acting and bad 3DS Max animation.
The end of the last movie promised to boldly go..so live up that promise.

23. urbandk - July 25, 2009

This is great news. If anyone involved in the production is reading: DO WHATEVER YOU DAMN WELL PLEASE!

Ignore the haters.

I will go see your new movie five times! You guys are doing an awesome job!

24. TJ Trek - July 25, 2009

I aggree No more space battles. While cool, Trek is so much more then battles and fighting. Let us have a movie that involves a mystery, whether it be a completly sci-fi idea or a traditional type mystery set in star trek. You know something weird, not cool happens; why does it happen; follow the clues;

What I was use for a ‘for instance” is the two parter UNIFICATION, and also THE CHASE. two great episodes that involved more of a mystery then anything else. What is spock up to. What are these genetic puzzle pieces leading us too?

I’ve also said that this would be a good premise for a game. Maybe some fighting, but in the context of the mystery at large.

What do you guys think?

25. CanOpener1256 - July 25, 2009

Why all this talk about Khan, or other 1st season episodes? Am I the only one who notices that at the end of the 1st movie they are in the same year as Captain Pike’s first mission in the Prime Universe? What happened to Number One and the older doctor??? All of Pike’s missions now never happened. Even Mitchell is missing from the 2nd pilot, Kirk’s “best friend”. We have at least 10 years of missing history (perhaps 15) before the Khan time frame. I want to see more of the early years, not a rehash of season one. Development of the real ship phasers, upgraded engine room, the building of the 11 other Constellation class ships (mentioned in Charlie-X), exploration, first contact, Tholians, Andorians and other early things. If we don’t see all that (or at least that type of Universe in the next few movies) .. than we will have a really messed up, and I think unrealistic re-invention of this new Timeline. I loved the first movie … but I want Star Trek: The Early Years to be the subject of the next few.

26. captain_neill - July 25, 2009

these writers better not rehash Trek classics as it would be a waste of the reason they chose to do a alternate universe in the first place.

I love the new film but if they go Transformers 2 with the sequel then I will scream.

I want original ideas, to quote Picard in Insurrection “Remember when we use to be explorers?” Non coporeal entities would be cool.

Khan is one of my all time fav movies, it does not need to be redone, if I want to see Khan I will pop the film on.

27. Spockish - July 25, 2009

With the next Star Trek movie only a outline script right now, continued bugging for the plot may damage the writing. What would please use fans for this holiday season is some thing as simple as the movies title. Thus the spring of 2010 all the fans can then be speculating as to how the plot will fill the title.

If we just leave the script authors have their privacy they then are able to spend their energy maturing a great script and we can be more than proud at the birth of this next beauty.

But if you know the money hungry Media jerks they will try to feed their addicted minds so they can try to get money to feed their addiction. Who wants to see a drug addicted media become an unfortunate star for a few minutes to a few days, and intern rubbing the shine and beauty of the new movie.

Now how do we fix these drug addicted media their drugs so they do not go through withdraw. My best guess is to pretend that we are fans of the other stuff that comes out so the drug infected media hunts down an hurts other films.

You know that addicted fools first hurt their friends, then end up destroying themselves. What we need to do is protect the Star Trek Movie Universe from being damaged by these drug infected Media fools.

28. Kevin from Akron - July 25, 2009

On the economic side of things the money they could save in doing both movies at once would be pretty decent. And there is precedence in this. Back To The Future II and III were filmed at the same time. Getting the next two Trek movies in my opinion is a great idea!!

29. thebiggfrogg - July 25, 2009

14. I’ll bite: I’ll pretend otherwise.
Leave Khan out of it. Do something new, but in the old Trek explore new worlds tradition–please! Enough already with the space wars (dare I say Star Wars)?!?

30. thebiggfrogg - July 25, 2009

24. I think, yes! Exactly!

31. Scott Xavier - July 25, 2009

borg…

32. Dunsel Report - July 25, 2009

Speaking of conjoined sequels–I urge the creators not to make the mistake of the last two Matrix movies. Which would be to buy into their own awesomeness, over-reach in terms of “being epic” and deliver something bloated instead of human.

33. I, Mugsy - July 25, 2009

For the love of God, NO FREAKING KHAN!!! He’s been DONE in a tv episode and a movie already!

MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!! DO SOMETHING NEW! Stop satisfying a small minority of fan-boys/girls wet dreams who can’t move beyond the original series/films and come up with an original idea. Please!

FFS!

34. screaming satellite - July 25, 2009

17, 21, 24, 28 – i think it was Harve Bennett or Denny Martin Flynn or Nick Meyer who said Trek works best when its action adventure as opposed to the more cerebal Sci Fi…and thats especially true of the films

theres no reason why they cant interject some serious thoughtful sci fi (like genesis in Trek II) but its best to keep it first and foremost action adventure, which means space battles, fisticuffs, fast pace etc

and why should there be no Khan in 2 or 3? just because a few fans say ‘NO KHAN!’?…

Khan is the most popular Trek villain and one of the most popular villiains in Sci Fi movie history, only been used twice before 40 & 30 years ago, and this new timeline is the perfect oppertuinty to resurrect him (although in diff circumstances), sure Montoban was great and it seems impossible to think of anyone else as Khan — but so were Shatner, Nimoy, Kelly etc and they’ve all been recast to perfection.

35. Dennis Bailey - July 25, 2009

#3:”After the Transporter, what fun Treknology will they screw up next? ”

Nonsense. That “fun Treknology” is made up and the “science” behind the way the transporter and ray-guns function is nearly non-existant. New writers don’t “screw it up” – they *change* it.

I notice that Saldana didn’t actually say the next script is halfway done – she’s just guessing based on conversations: “they’re *probably* halfway done with a script.”

36. Selor Kiith - July 25, 2009

@24 While it would be a great Fangasm… it would kill the new spirit right where it stands!

After the bombastic movie that was delivered to us you can’t through it completely away and go back to the Past (that unevitabely WILL fail)…

Such a thing like The Chase etc. is great for one Episode but not for a 2 hour feature film….

37. braxus - July 25, 2009

Well here we go again with the suggestions. All can say is: no space battles and no Khan. Thanks.

38. Trey - July 25, 2009

yeah i want to see the whole crew fight somebody when i said the whole crew i mean Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura….everybody. Even lil Chekov.

39. John Gill - July 25, 2009

While I love a good battle in space, the original series did NOT have a space battle in every story, I’d really be overwhelmed (again) to see the next film focus longer on the character’s personalities and the human factor in all this “Seeking out of strange new worlds” and exploration, that’s a key word in our Star Trek world, EXPLORATION!!! I miss Gary Mitchell…

40. Brutus - July 25, 2009

WHY WOULD THE DO KHAN. By the time theEnterprise and crew arrive at that scenario they’re in their 50′s. So instead of having a bunch of 50-somethings trying to look 40, we will have 20-something-years-olds looking 40???

41. screaming satellite - July 25, 2009

@24, 33 etc – What if Nolan had said ‘NO JOKER!! HES BEEN DONE ALREADY…TWICE! (66 and 89)’

Thing is theres no getting away from the fact that Khan is an integral part of the Trekverse and the thought that the botany bay is out there…waiting to be discovered once again…is tantalising in the extreme

You go ahead and pray for The Chase or Tin Man to be given the big screen treatment…me? I want some KHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAN!! again

42. Brian Kirsch - July 25, 2009

I won’t get into plot suggestions, that’s been done to death – other than to say that the “fans” have spoken, at least on this site. No Khan!! As an interesting side story, maybe, but not the main focus.

But let’s face reality. This is no longer your Star Trek, or even your father’s. This Star Trek, thanks to the success of the current film, is now in the action/adventure/popcorn movie/blockbuster territory. While intellectual, mysterious, exploration stories might make for good TV episodes, they don’t make for good blockbuster movies. For better or worse, that’s where Star Trek is at right now………

So expect another fast-paced action/adventure film, with even more special effects. Anything else would be considered a disappointment by the mainstream movie-goer, and it would gross less than the current film. That would be a big blow to the re-birth of Trek, and to Paramount’s hopes of a tentpole franchise.

The best we can hope for is a film with the right balance of drama, character development, and good storytelling mixed in with lots of action, adventure, and even more SFX. I think The Team did a very good job of that in the current film. Instead of trying to please some of the people (the die-hard fans) all of the time, they chose to please most of the people (the mainstream movie fan and most of the die-hard fans) most of the time. I think they hit on just the right balance in the current film. I have every confidence they can do the same in the next film.

43. JML9999 - July 25, 2009

Last Harry Potter book split into two movies. Simple mechanics they have too much material too many plot points to squeeze into one movie.

44. John from Cincinnati - July 25, 2009

Nero was more of a cardboard villain than Khan ever was.

45. JimJ - July 25, 2009

If you are going to visit any Star Trek villian, make it something that has no personality: like the Doomsday Machine, for example. Maybe at the end of the 2nd movie, have the Doomsday Machine show up before the credits roll, or maybe even after they roll. Hard to mess up something totally that has no personality.

Khan has a personality and frankly, though some say things like, “look how good the Joker was in Dark Knight”…you’re playing with fire if it is Khan. Forget Khan, for now. There are better and more ingenous things to do. And for God’s sake, even though they are my favorite Trek villian of all time, NO BORG!!!!!

46. John from Cincinnati - July 25, 2009

9.

Why? Because it is almost obsurd that you have a franchise as huge as Star Trek, one of the tentpoles for Paramount pictures and having ‘multiple universes’ exist. Existing as a franchise and existing as a stand alone plot for one episode are totally different animals. I could see using a parallel universe for an episode like ‘Mirror, Mirror’ I just don’t see how it can work for a franchise. What about future projects? What universe will they exist in? What about what happens in the Prime universe after Spock Prime entered the black hole? The company making the Star Trek MMO is struggling with this problem as we speak. According to Robert Orci, he believes in the multi universe theory of quantum mechanics, meaning multiple universes exist, meaning the Prime universe is still out there. Now, from a logical point of view, how can Paramount say, we will live in this universe from now on, especially in a science fiction series that brought dead people back to life? They can’t just jettison the prime universe and leave it out there, Prime Spock is a living, breathing reminder of that universe. Can you imagine Indiana Jones having multiple parallel universes? Re-cast Harrison Ford and here we go! Woo hoo! How about a Star Wars alternate universe? I think fans like coherency and consistency and alternate universes don’t offer either of those things.

47. LJ - July 25, 2009

I’d like to see Captain Garth in a future film. As the events of the new universe take place prior to those of TOS, I’d paint him as a highly successful, yet arrogant field commander. He is jealous of Kirk’s success, in that he believes the young gun will steal his fame. Garth is British, giving rise to his pretensions of rank and title: He sits in the House of Lords. He sees himself as a latter-day Nelson.

However, I’d have Garth as a supporting character – a drive, or motivation for Kirk….for Kirk is really the latter-day Nelson.

Much of Star Trek is based upon British naval history (the use of Number One, the duties of a starship captain, etc.), and I always saw Kirk as a bit of a Thomas Cochrane (I’m interested in naval history). However there is also a lot of Nelson in Kirk.

I’d love to see a starship battle (I know some of you will be groaning now) led by Admiral Pike. However the reason for this is that I’d like to see Nelson/Kirk’s coming of age: I’d love to hear Pike utter the words that Admiral Jervis uttered when he spoke of Nelson’s actions at the Battle of Cape Saint Vincent:

“…if ever you commit such a breach of your orders, I shall forgive you also.”

If you are reading, please use these words Mr. Orci.

48. Picard's Barber - July 25, 2009

As much as I appreciate original thinking and new stories, I’ve always wondered what some of my favorite movies would be like with today’s special effects and movie making abilities. This is true with the Batman movies, James Bond movies, and I’ll even go as far as to say the Superman films. All of those have been remade using characters from the originals but not a direct copy of the source material.

Space Seed was a good episode from TOS, but I don’t think it was great. I think that with today’s technology a better and more thought-out and epic movie can be made using characters and mythos from the show. Khan included. Would people still scream bloody murder if Genral Chang showed up as a villain with a Klingon fleet seeking war? Maybe. I know I would appreciate seeing him again as I would appreciate seeing Khan or any other character from TOS, but that’s just ‘easy going me’.

Whatever happens with the next movie, I’ll still see it. I’ll most likely enjoy it as well just as I enjoyed the worst of the previous films. So remember kids: opinions are like @$$ holes, everybody has one and they usually stink.

49. John from Cincinnati - July 25, 2009

I would like to see extensive use of the Talosians in the next movie. Their mind powers of illusion can open up many new locations and situations for the characters to encounter. The time is almost lining up perfectly for when ‘The Cage’ occured.

50. dmduncan - July 25, 2009

I’m all for filming back to back movies and for the next film to be a cliffhanger in the model of Empire Strikes Back. It also sounds like they’ve made their decisions regarding the next two films, so cries of Khan or no Khan are at this point irrelevant. I think it’s wise to link the next two films, and not to follow the purely episodic model of small screen TV shows. It will give them an opportunity to create an epic story line suitable to big screen Trek, while possibly giving us 2 straight years of Star Trek films.

Whatever they chose, I just hope they make it as good as the first movie, and better if they can.

Now the question becomes who will direct?

After seeing Valkyrie, I’d again like to nominate Bryan Singer as the perfect choice to pick up where JJ Abrams left off.

I am more convinced of this after reviewing the attitude of his films, Valkyrie, Superman Returns, X Men, X Men II. And after doing a Google search I discovered on Wikipedia that Singer is described as being a lifelong fan of Star Trek!

Not only does he have the solid directorial chops to do Star Trek, and do it good, but he’s a fan of the franchise who gets what it’s all about, and who is actually far more likely to focus on character development than JJ Abrams.

So if JJ isn’t coming back to direct, I think Singer is the wisest choice to replace him if they can get him on board.

51. devon - July 25, 2009

I agree #42, Star Trek is now Blockbuster material, and as much as we can all hope, wish & pray for our own personal favourite ideas to come to fruition, the reality is… although Sci-Fi, Trek will now be more Action/Adventure to please the mainstream audience, and that’s okay as long as they achieve balance as they did with the 1st movie: action, adventure,humor,romance,SFX,etc. I just hope they don’t mess up as they did with Transformers II ( a real pity: the seed of a good idea overshadowed and trampled to death by FX!) Star Trek has always been about the characters,as long as the characters evolve, bring on the action!!!

52. Pat D. - July 25, 2009

2 AND 3!!
2 AND 3!!

I hope they actually do this and _plan_ to make more than 1 movie instead of losing 6 months like they did between all the TOS films.

@kilo & Anthony– something something else IF it isn’t

something something _more_.

53. Nemesis4909 - July 25, 2009

I can’t believe noone’s suggested this so far.

Next movie plot is so obvious:

it could be called something like “Star Trek: Strange New Worlds”. they find this fascinating planet and in true TOS style, Kirk, Spock and McCoy beam down, they come across a problem and are stuck there. Meanwhile starfleet orders the Enterprise to go and deal with the klingons/romulans or whoever, doesn’t really matter. so Scotty’s in command and has to take the Enterprise to do that, that way you get exploration AND action, perfect.

54. Andy - July 25, 2009

ANY idea be done well and even “rehashed” well with the right creative team: if the first film is any indication, then we have less to fear than we have to celebrate!

55. Mr. Delicious - July 25, 2009

Star Trek 2.0 II: Bones Vs. The White Rabbit

56. SerenityActual - July 25, 2009

I would love to go back to exploration or problem solving. What about taking the Vulcan Diaspora to New Vulcan and finding some kind of problem there that they need to figure out?

Or Kodos the executioner?

57. Jeff - July 25, 2009

The only time back to back filmed sequels has worked well in the history of movie making was with Lord of the Rings. Unless they finish BOTH scripts before filming, it’s a bad idea. The studio gets greedy and makes more demands, the writers lose focus by trying to please everyone, etc. It happend with Matrix. It happend with Pirates of the Carribean. To an extent, it happened with Back to the Future. DON’T let it happen with Star Trek.

58. I, Mugsy - July 25, 2009

PLEASE…. There is only ONE thing to be done with this sequal

“Explore STRANGE NEW worlds and NEW civilizations”

How can we call this Star Trek if it NEVER honors these immortal words???!?

Seriously?

We never DID explore strange new worlds in the feature films… with perhaps some of V’ger which at least was science-fiction in the main. Now’s the chance to blow people away with things we really haven’t ever seen before, and to make us THINK again. For all it’s comedy moments, Star Trek IV made us THINK. I sincerely hope this is part and parcel of the next sequal rather than a thinly disguised action/adventure of the month which just happens to star the Star Trek crew.

Avatar is going to really show NEW worlds, and it’s a shame it will beat Star Trek to it. Lets regain that ‘pioneering explorers’ type crown again huh?

- Mugsy,

59. Xai - July 25, 2009

53. Nemesis4909 – July 25, 2009
“I can’t believe noone’s suggested this so far.

Next movie plot is so obvious:

it could be called something like “Star Trek: Strange New Worlds”. ”

Dam, beat me to the punch. I thought of that title the other day too and rather like it. I suspect we’ll see a portion of the story devoted to New Vulcan and it’s settlement.

60. LetKubrickMakeTheArtMovies - July 25, 2009

Here’s what would be different: they never go into space for the whole movie. They are just on a planet having tea for two hours. Now that would be something new.

61. ProperTrekkieUK - July 25, 2009

Firstly, in the newest Star Trek, if you actually think about it, there were few space battles…infact the Enterprise only fires its phasers once, at the very end! Therefore anyone chirping on about no more space battles is barking up the wrong tree!

Secondly, strange new worlds don’t work in the context of big budget films! Action adventure is the only real way to go. If we want a third or forth trek then ST:SS has to include action elements and capture mainstream audiences! ST: Something Else will also have to be action adventure if we aim for a forth. Its just the way it goes. Now the quality of the script will have a profound impact on how noticable the action adventure is, or whether exploritory elements can be included within it effectively!

I personally think a Master and Commander style film, with Kirk facing of against a major Klingon Commander in a distance part of space, perhaps with the Enterprise discovering a mysterious planet with strange aliens on, being similar to the Galapacus exploring in M&C, would work very well indeed. That would include the obvious action adventure elements with the good addition of some discovery along the way!

Finally, it is more the posibly that No. 1 exists. The Enterprise is finished whilst Kirk is at the Academy…and Pike is in command. It is plausable that the Nero event takes place after the Enterprise has had a period of activity, with Pike in command and No. 1 as first officer, and therefore No. 1 exists, somewhere, perhaps with her own command during the Nero event. The only reference to how new the Enterprise is comes from Pike’s comment about her commissioning, but it is equally as plausable to suggest that he is referencing her commisioning as fleet flag ship, and not as a Star Fleet vessel. Just saying, it is possible she was active before the events of ST09!

62. Brett Campbell - July 25, 2009

#6 – “Then, Prime Spock goes to the Guardian of Forever to restore the timeline.”

He’d have to be able to get past Harlan Ellison’s lawyers first.

63. RD - July 25, 2009

46. John from Cincinnati wrote: The company making the Star Trek MMO is struggling with this problem as we speak. … They can’t just jettison the prime universe and leave it out there, Prime Spock is a living, breathing reminder of that universe.

You are kidding yourself.

Pine and Quinto ARE the franchise right now. They are signed up for 4 features, one more than Star Wars. As long as the next two films are profitable, they will make a 4th. If Pine & Quinto aren’t too big for their britches after that, they will negotiate for 5, 6 & 7 as well. And as long as Pine & Quinto are in the films, there will be no going back to the “Prime” universe. In fact, I doubt any director or producer would ever want to go back there with TOS, only to assume the same baggage Abrams left it for in the first place. They might go back there for TNG, but none of those actors are getting any younger either, which means those stories will have to be re-cast as well. So more than likely Star Trek, at least as far as feature films are concerned will remain in the alternate universe (unless someone goes back to do young Kirk & Spock at Starfleet with completely different actors). By the time Pine & Quinto finish their run, the new fans will not be interested in Shatner & Nimoy. And a decade of new canon will make the last 40 years obsolete for telling new films, since it will only confuse new fans and casual audiences alike.

Finally, there is no going back to the Prime Universe, or Mirror Universe, etc. from this Alternate Universe. As long as Orci is around, there is no way to traverse the quantum boundaries without splitting off yet another new universe. Spock will die in this universe, or possibly another one, but he will never go back to the one from which he started.

64. Brian Kirsch - July 25, 2009

#46 –

Sorry, but I think maybe you need to accept the fact that the “JJverse” will be the focus of the (at least) 3 film cycle. The prime universe will still be there, for future TV series, books, fan productions, etc. I highly doubt the PTB would go to all the trouble of a reset/reboot, only to find a way to go back to the Prime timeline. Let’s just see how the “JJverse” plays out. You just might like it….. but I doubt it. ;-)

As a side note, that’s why I’ve said in other threads that Spock Prime must die, sooner than later. Cut the ties, let the “JJverse” breathe and develope. We need closure in order to move forward.

65. Third Remata'Klan - July 25, 2009

I’d rather not see a “To Be Continued” at the end of the sequel.
But if they do, they’d darn well better not release them more than a year apart from each other….

66. RD - July 25, 2009

#62 – LOL, Ellison’s lawyers aside, sadly The Guardian of Forever does not exist in this universe – it can’t, since it doesn’t conform to Orci’s MWI QM tenets.

67. The Last Maquis - July 25, 2009

They Need to do “this or whatever?”

68. Douglas - July 25, 2009

No more khaaaaaaan crap or any other brainless copying , its a new 5 year mission of unexpected story line. Thats why JJ and the writers said they would do this movie it allows them to write a whole new mission

69. Sickly Sweet Cloud Creature - July 25, 2009

What I and my friend would like to see is a two-movie bridge sequel with the end of the sequel(s) being the crew/USS Enterprise finally starting its first 5-year mission with a renewed/rejuvenated Federation…you can have the secondary story line of Vulcans finding and settling “New Vulcan” as well as an unification (partial) or detente with Romulus (thanks to the efforts of Spock Prime, young Spock and Sarak)

The key incident kicking off the sequels and tying the two movies together could be pushing up the events/encounter between Kirk/Enterprise with the Romulan Commander in “Balance of Terror” (“In a different reality, i could have called you friend…”)

Spock Prime’s passing (of old age) at the moment of the alternative timeline’s first five-year mission would be perfect…knowing at the end that he’s straightened the destinies of young Kirk, young Spock, and the Federation as well as his goal of Vulcan reunion with the Romulans…

Leave the alternative Khan, et. al. for the second trilogy…

70. RD - July 25, 2009

#61. ProperTrekkieUK – careful with the Pike dissection. His canon has always been particularly troubling ever since Mendez uttered those words to Kirk: “he’s about the same age as you are”, which would have made Pike 22 at the time of The Cage. I personally think they’ve done the right thing by making Pike a father figure, since in reality Pike would have been about Kirk’s age when he took over the Enterprise in 2254, i.e. 35, about 14 years older than Kirk, making him roughly 50 at the time of the Menagerie. But then there’s the rub. Since Pike was born before Nero showed up, Pike would have been 35 in 2255, not the clearly 50 year old man he is, unless we are to accept that Pike in The Cage was 50-ish and in The Menagerie was 63!

Now the real problem becomes Number One. The actress was roughly 32 in 2254. But now that we’re in the alternate universe, is she aged up to match Pike? Or is she the age she was in the Prime Universe?

Either way, it’s been 22 years in a universe where many things have changed, both Number One, Boyce and many others could have easily died, or taken other career choices in this reality by 2254, too. Perhaps Pike is even married to Number One. The movie wasn’t ABOUT him. So I really don’t see the problem.

As for the Enterprise, it was theoretically built in 2245, but definitely by 2251 when Pike took command. However, since Star Fleet changed the way they built their ships, the new Enterprise could have easily been delayed 10 years. Was there an Enterprise between the NX-01 and NCC-1701? More than likely, meaning one could have been in service prior to 2245-ish when April took over the NCC-1701. But there is nothing in canon to note it or refute it. If one existed, it would have perhaps been pressed into service longer in the alternate universe.

71. CJC - July 25, 2009

NO KHAN!!

72. EFFeX - July 25, 2009

Please no Khan, that’s not even necessary. However, can we PLEASE have some Klingons in the next film. I really missed having them in the first one, even thought they “technically” were included. Also, in the third film, I know this is a long way to go, but can we please tie in the Prime Universe one last time.

Thanks.

73. dmduncan - July 25, 2009

46: “I think fans like coherency and consistency and alternate universes don’t offer either of those things.”

Star Trek has never been coherent or consistent. That’s why canon is ultimately a load of BS. Try to enjoy it without turning Star Trek into a religion.

The consistency of stardates and other minor details don’t matter, because Star Trek never has been nor ever will be a franchise that does NOT require the willing suspension of disbelief to accept so many of it’s portrayals of scenarios.

Sounds in space, transporting whole people without a receiving pad on the other end, and artificial gravity—which is obviously not due to centrifugal force, linear acceleration, or the mass of something like neutronium, which poses plenty of credibility issues by itself—are just two examples where drama and storytelling must supersede scientific accuracy.

And the MWI interpretation of QM (there are plenty of other interpretations of QM besides the MWI), which has NO evidential support and which I think will eventually be shown to be a load of bunk anyway, is as far as I am concerned a quasi-scientific storytelling mechanism the writer’s used to free themselves from the canon created by the bad writing of Star Trek’s past, e.g., Generations.

Even the visual portrayal of the events in Trek ’09 was incoherent. The black hole that Nero entered first would have had to stay open for 25 years while Spock Prime made his way through it after Nero. Instead Spock created one black hole that apparently opened twice 25 years apart to a location that was predictable by Nero, which makes no sense at all. Not only that, but you don’t get OUT of a black hole, you go INTO them. That’s why the existence of WHITE holes has been theorized, because it’s the opposite of a black hole and spits things out rather than drawing them in, which is what you’d need if you were ever going to go into a black hole in one place and come out somewhere else.

That’s called poetic license.

74. Flake - July 25, 2009

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN is going to be in the sequel and I can’t wait!

Who will play Capt. Terrell ?

75. Rick - July 25, 2009

No Khan just some cool STRANGE NEW WORLDS adventure, mystery, and cool character development in the mix. That is all. Beaming up!

76. Captain Dad - July 25, 2009

I know it won’t happen, but I think a version of Prime Directive would fit the bill. Plenty of action, a showcase for the characters, AND a story both of and about exploration.

77. Trekwebmaster - July 25, 2009

Wow! This is VERY GOOD NEWS!!! Godspeed Bob and Alex! I can’t wait until production starts…won’t be long now!!!

78. Ran - July 25, 2009

Maybe now they can find some writers that understand and respect the Trek universe.

79. capnjake - July 25, 2009

How about this, what if Instead of Kahn, why not see the Kirk and the Enterprise go up against one of the classic Trek Klingon advesarys Kang,Koloth,or Kor. I think that is the best thing to do if we are going to be revisiting a classic villian. Honestly a remake or reimagineing of wrath of Kahn would be a terrible idea, the whole reason why wrath of kahn works is because of the passage of time that occured from space seed till star trek II. even if you were to introduce kahn in star trek XII and then have star Trek XIII be the new version of TWOK it still wouldnt work.
plus its one thing trying to find someone with enough talent to make you get past anyone but shatner playing kirk(which pine managed to pull off) its another finding someone talented enough to also make you imagine anyone able to pull of kahn besides montalban.

i mean think about it shatner and montalban didnt act against each other in one scene in TWOK, but by there talent alone they pull off one of the best hero/villian showdowns of alltime.

80. T'Cal - July 25, 2009

Some of my favorite Trek episodes ended with a kind of a cliffhanger that were or should’ve been followed up on. Two that come to mind are TNG’s “Conspiracy” and the “Q Who?” In the former, the lingering question is what those creatures were and where they come from. Data indicated that before Remmick was killed, he was sending a signal toward a distant quadrant of the galaxy. It appears to be a homing beacon, perhaps to guide something to Earth. Not the best TNG episode but a great ending that they failed to follow up on. In the latter, we first learn about the Borg. At the end, Picard and Guinan surmise that it would then only be a matter of time before the Borg arrived at Earth. Of course, that led to BoBW and FC.

The point is, the story in STXII can have a self-contained story that ends with a kick in the stomach lead-in to the next film. I’m all for that.

81. Keenan - July 25, 2009

Yes Khan! it should start in a battle with Romulans or Klingons and the Enterprise warps off in a hurry or gets lost. Crew find the Botany Bay by accident. Khan helps fight them and then tries to take over the Enterprise. Spock Prime finds out that Khan has been found and goes to help; Khan kills Spock prime. Kirk takes back the Enterprise and Khan is marooned. Kirk and crew then have to fix the mess Khan started as the temp captain of the Enterprise. There you have a second film and a start for a third. There i just helped the writing team and made them millions! lol!

82. Wastedbeerz - July 25, 2009

Have the Borg assimilate Khan, whose “superior intellect” is too much for the assimilation process, overwhelms it, and Khan becomes the new leader of the Borg collective, the new “queen” if you will… LMAO.

83. Tony Whitehead - July 25, 2009

First of all, this is potentially GREAT news, if only for the fact that the production team has a larger palette to work with in terms of story and character development with the grand story spread out over two films.

Secondly, the writing team is walking a fine line with this franchise, in that they have to serve several masters…(A) follow up with an action-packed epic that will put the same amount or more of audience tails in the seats, and (B) still make it a thought-provoking journey that lives up to the expectations of older TOS fans.

They’ve proven they have the chops to make it happen. With the string of successes that the entire team has put together, we should give them a break to play in this uncharted territory. However, here’s a couple of unasked for suggestions from the peanut gallery.

Give the next picture a bit more time to breathe. Yes, I know you have to keep the pace rolling ahead to avoid the trap of ST:TMP. Although I happen to love that film, today’s audiences won’t sit still for “think pieces”, at least in the numbers that the suits at Paramount want to see. I also understand that a two hour long flick circulates the audience through the theater faster, thereby filling the studio’s coffers rather than a longer motion picture.

Star Trek 2009 was an incredible thrill ride with a lot of great moments, some of which are more than likely to be lengthened or restored in the home DVD versions, which will probably soothe my concerns, but it would have been nice to give some of these great character moments, especially the George Kirk back story a bit more screen time or hopefully a series in the future that follows their missions prior. Another element was the whole “red matter” angle, which needed explanation from a whole different medium, comic books, to flesh it out.

There is a great hook to get the ball rolling in the next film, that of the refugee Vulcans, that could be exploited. Say the Big E is leading a convoy to Spock’s new colony world when [something happens]. I cannot say what, because that’s a bit above my pay grade, but drama on the level of the TOS classic “Balance of Terror” with more ‘splozions would be cool….on second thought, what if the colony world was in space claimed by, oh say, the Gorns or something?

Oh, and on the way out to colonize the new Vulcan home world, the Enterprise comes out of warp directly in the path of the S.S. Botany Bay, can’t stop in time and completely obliterates Khan and company, thereby negating the need to remake a completely fine motion picture.

Live Wrong and Improper….

84. Chris M - July 25, 2009

This is AWESOME news!!!!!!!! :)

To think it was only a few years back Star Trek was in serious trouble and here we are now with it a massive franchise again!!!!

If all goes well the trilogy in total could make $1Billion world wide!

85. dmduncan - July 25, 2009

Damn. Looks like Bryan Singer is in talks to direct a movie called Prisoner to be released in 2011, which would pretty much make him unavailable for the next Star Trek movie, unless a miracle happens, talks fall through, and Paramount/Orci/Kurtzman/Abrams tosses the Star Trek project at him.

If he’s as big a fan of the franchise as Wiki makes him sound, that’s not beyond possibility, but something would probably have to be done fast to make it happen or he’ll be out of reach, and the right director is REALLY going to be important for the next film. Singer is the only guy I can think of who could actually do a better Star Trek sequel than JJ Abrams.

86. Andy - July 25, 2009

#3

What’s your beef with the Transporter? For Christ sakes, give it up!

87. Green-Blooded-Bastard - July 25, 2009

I like grilled cheese sammiches.

88. VOODOO - July 25, 2009

I’m sure tptb will do a grat job with whatever they come up with.

From a selfish point of view I would love to see more of Mr. Nimoy and have Kirk prime (a.k.a. Shatner’s Kirk) be given a better ending.

89. Crusade2267 - July 25, 2009

It’ll be good, but please NO KHAN.

Also, I realize that this will be the second film in a new series of Star Trek films, but calling it Star Trek 2 is eerily similar to Star Trek II. Again, NO KHAN please.

90. Jorg Sacul - July 25, 2009

I don’t care if the next 5 movies are about Scotty diddling with the transporter making random beagles appear from different universes…

NO BORG. NO BORG. NO BORG.

Please!

91. Ben - July 25, 2009

In the sequel Sulu and Chekov should fall in love.

92. Aragorn189 - July 25, 2009

It will be interesting to see what they come up with. Personally, I’d like to have Amanda Grayson brought back to life some how. I gave up on canon after I saw the new movie. I treat canon extremely loosely now. Hopefully, Orci and Kurtzman can fill in the gap between 2258 and 2265 with some really nice stories. It will an interesting few years watching new Trek on the big screen.

To Bob Orci if you still read the boards,

My reccomendation is to stay away from Khan unless you can get a good spin on the original Space Seed episode. Also, I wouldn’t go the Borg route either, as I consider TMP to be Kirk’s encounter with the Borg. I heard in an interview that JJ was disappointed the Klingons weren’t in the finished film. Why don’t we tell a story about the Klingons or the diplomatic fallout with Romulus due to Nero’s actions. Or bring the Gorn back into the picture somehow. Show us some races that we don’t necceesarily see to often. Or create an entirely new race. Just a reccomendation. Good luck with the script and I look forward to what you all come up with.

93. Wastedbeerz - July 25, 2009

Here’s the sequel… have Kirk get accidentally beamed back to ancient China… where he is stranded for several years, more than enough time to learn Kirk-Fu!!!! When he returns to the future, the Enterprise coincidentally encounters an alien planet strangely emulating ancient Chinese culture, and thus the Kirk-fu comes in handy.

94. Wastedbeerz - July 25, 2009

Oh yeah, almost forgot, redshirt Ensign Ricky gets transported back with him, but doesn’t survive more than 5 minutes once there.

95. JM Enterprise - July 25, 2009

Wouldn’t it be cool to have a completely oringinal story, maybe some alien force that affects the crew and at the end as a prolog, the crew discovering the ‘Botany Bay’ in outer space with Checkov saying the immortal words ‘ Botany Bay ‘ and maybe even a glimpse inside to see Khan lying in stasus, roll end titles.

96. Finding Nimoy - July 25, 2009

Let it go…really…please let it go. Trek 2009 is now canon and has it’s own set of players who will do their best give us good sequels. Just like the latest film, the sequels won’t make everyone happy, so live with it.

If it makes you happy, put on your velour uniform tunic (with girdle), sit in front of your altar made of styrofoam rocks and pop-in a copy of “Spock’s Brain” or “Catspaw”. It’ll make you feel better.

3. Jeyl – July 25, 2009

After the Transporter, what fun Treknology will they screw up next? A hand phaser can penetrate a star ship’s shields?

78. Ran – July 25, 2009

Maybe now they can find some writers that understand and respect the Trek universe.

97. Hurray for more of the same! - July 26, 2009

Khan is the most reasonable choice.

If there’s one thing we all know about people in general, and Star Trek fans in particular, they want the same thing over and over and over and over and over again, which is precisely why there’s been 6 “different” Star Trek TV shows and 11 films.

The sequel will be a Khan-story.

Star Trek: Still Boldly Going Where It’s Already Been. Again. Still.

98. Wes W. - July 26, 2009

Do they mean half done or half baked? LOL! I loved the new film, but, it was because it was fresh, no retreads of old stories please! No Khan, Nomad, Bele, etc. Write one on your own!

99. Chasco - July 26, 2009

#53

I love this idea! For one thing, it gives Scotty command of the ship, which might help prevent the writers turning him into an idiot comedian for the duration.

100. tman - July 26, 2009

My take:

1. Space battles is something people expect of a sci fi movie where people fly around in a armed space ship. Whether it is brief or long, is another question but it seems incomplete I would suspect for a modern audience to see the Enterprise and not see some amount of space battle (albiet short). If you look at TOS, there are quite a few space battles (not every episode) and those tend to be more memorable in the long run than low budget seemingly silicone blobs that stick to people and kill, kids who die early and do the lord of the flies thing, salt eating sucker babes, greek gods who need to give it a rest, or insects who have let their extreme power get to their heads.

2. The more successful Dr WHo episodes are in genre more truly horror,. Suspense and fear are a great alternative to action/adventure. If they do do sci fi, there has to be an aspect of horror to it (again Solaris and Forbidden Planet come up as examples in my mind of what it should aspire to). I think they can easily do an exploring strange new words episode so long as there is an element of horror to it. Many of TOS episodes aspire toward horror (sometimes hitting camp squarely between the eyes due to their low budgets). Still I suspect ship battle will be shoe horned in somehow, even if the rest of the plot has nothing to do with it.

101. Will_H - July 26, 2009

Sounds cool, would be nice if they were half way done, the sooner the better…at least as long as its quality. But yeah, Ive said it before but i’ll say it again (hoping that they really do read some of these) and I’ll say NO KHAN. You dont outdo TWOK for one, and as others have said, its already been done. Half the reason this last movie worked is because it was a new story. It managed to keep most of us Trekkies happy despite numerous cannon issues and such because it was quality, but I’m pretty darn sure if they go and do Khan again it’ll piss most of us off badly enough to avoid it. And sorry, but even if the general public goes out to see it in droves, they’d notice a box office hurt if they alienated the Trekkie army.

102. David B - July 26, 2009

NO KHAN
NO BRYAN SINGER
Bryan Singer has already screwed up one of my favourite characters in Superman do not let him screw up another one of my favourite concepts in Star Trek.

He is a frigging hack and I will never get over what he did to Superman.

103. Charla - July 26, 2009

I am sooo happy about the second and now THIRD film coming, but I don’t think I can wait until 2011!!! I hope we can get it sooner than 2011 but I am happy just the same that there will be more.

104. raffie - July 26, 2009

2 words: THE MATRIX. Making 2 movies at once doesn’t work, case and point, The Matrix sequels; Reloaded was 3/4th the original tops, while Revolutions was like 1/4th the original (and then I”m talking bout the last half hour of the film)
But yes, from a business POV I guess it works, because ppl are going to watch/buy all 3 movies anyway, no matter how luch the last movie sucks, you’ve invested into watching the first 2, it’s only human to want to see how the story wraps up…

105. T'Vek - July 26, 2009

Qo’noS – The film opens with the Klingon capital, First City, under attack from within by Klingon Rebels, attempting to instigate a Klingon Civil War and overthrow the current High Council.

The Capital is under ground, aerial and orbital bombardment, a massive battle ensues. The rebellion is headed by a former Klingon General – Kaarg

Kaarg is a traditionalist and popular General – Supportive of a hard line policy of expansion and conquering to supplement the homeworld’s weaknesses in natural resources.

Kaarg, once a loyalist has become disillusioned with the current governments policy of consolidation. He fears for the diminishing might and status of the Empire, and increasing emergence of the Romulans and the number of worlds waiting to join the Federation

High Council – Within the Great Hall two dozen representatives of the most powerful houses within the Klingon Empire and The Chancellor, are devising a plan to crush the rebellion.

Suddenly Kaarg and his forces storm the Great Hall, without warning the Kaarg kills the Klingon Chancellor and proclaims himself the new Chancellor of the Empire

Main Film Titles

USS Enterprise – The crew of the Starship Enterprise are enjoying the hospitality of a strange, new world on a shore leave like planet.

Kirk is taking part is an Olympic like combat game event. McCoy is having a heated ethical debate regarding the planet’s current healthcare policy of patients having to pay for medical care and the ethics of ill and needy people being prevented from medical treatment.
Scotty is enjoying his shore leave reading volumes of technical journals including one entitled the “Great Experiment” and how in thirty year’s time all starships will be powered by Transwarp Drive.
However, Spock is having emotional turmoil over his feelings for Uhura and his duty to help rebuild the Vulcan people and take a Vulcan wife and produce Vulcan offspring.

Federation Council- Meanwhile, The Federation is in crisis, the destruction of Vulcan, one of the foremost founding worlds of the United Federation of Planets has created tensions and uncertainty. There are genuine fears that a traditional enemy might try and take advantage of the situation or indeed that the Federation itself may splitter and break.
From his wheelchair, Admiral Pike is addressing the council requesting resource funding for new classes of starships and increases to existing shipyard production to protect and patrol boarders

Ambassador Sarek updates the council on the progress of the Vulcan resettlement effort and the Marcus idea. During the meeting it is concluded that the colonization of the new Vulcan World will have a stabilizing affect

Starfleet disagrees with this assessment – Worried that the Klingons in particular may sense a weak Federation and launch a pre-emptive strike
Suddenly, the meeting is interrupted with news that the Klingon High Council has been overthrown from traditionalists from within.

There is suddenly a real prospect and fear of a full scale war Klingon/Federation Tensions

Since Kaarg overthrew the Klingon Council, all Federation diplomatic overtures have been unanswered. The new Chancellor is a shrewd Klingon and quickly redirects hostilities outward to immediately gain support of the military and focus civil discontent elsewhere.

The Klingons issue a warning and break all formal and diplomatic contact with the Federation. Secretly it increases its shipyard production and begins testing prototype weapons and technology.

Federation Research Station – Ark 7- Meanwhile, a prominent and high-flying molecular biologist, Dr Carol Marcus, is requesting Federation funding for the development and testing of a new, radical and potentially dangerous Terraforming Device. Codenamed “The Resurrection Device”
The Device itself will have the power to alter the existing climatic conditions of a planet from manipulating and changing its atmosphere. In doing so, reshape and modify the ecology of a world, to make it more habitable to specific life forms and for the settlement of future colonies.

She is proposing using the technology to create a tailored made New Vulcan, transforming a planet to become an almost perfect copy of the original Vulcan homeworld.

In attendance is Spock Prime, who gives a recommendation for the scheme. However, he gives a warning on the devices potential for destruction and how it could be harnessed into a weapon of mass destruction, destroying a planet atmosphere and all life on it.

Dr Marcus is awarded the funding, however, because of the project’s potential destructive ability, the project is classified.

Resurrection Device – Testing

Spock Prime and Dr Marcus launch the resurrection device into the atmosphere of a planet. Within moments the once green world, transforms into a brownish red and orange. The test is a great success, with Spock Prime, unofficially calling the new world “Vulcania”.

After several months of preparation New Vulcan is declared habitable and Spock Prime co-ordinate the relocation and settlement effort
Dr Marcus leaves to continue with her research and returns to Ark 7
Ark 7

Dr Marcus and her team have perfected a probe like war head to launch future versions of the “Resurrection” device. She requests a Federation vessel to aid in future deployment of the device

A science vessel arrives and Marcus and a party of her team board the vessel and begin selecting suitable planets, moons and bodies to test the device.

USS Edison – Ice World

The science vessel USS Edison, under the command of Lt Cmdr Markel, is in orbit of a lifeless ice planet, launching a series of robotic probes, testing whether the planet has stable land mass under the sheets of ice.
On board is Dr Carol Marcus who is supervising the testing of the device.
If successful the Edison will launch the “Resurrection” Device into orbit and alter the climatic conditions of the planet for settlement for a future colony.

Without warning a magnetic space storm suddenly engulfs the ship. The storm begins to cause serious electrical damage to the Edison, databanks are accessed and severe power fluctuations follow.
The magnetic disruption is making the warp core appear unstable and critical. Markel orders all hands to abandon ship.

A distress signal is activated and life pods are ejected. The pods enter the atmosphere of the ice world

The magnetic storm immediately disappears and the Edison is left intact.

USS Enterprise – Enterprise receives a distress signal from the Research Station – Ark 7. It is under attack from the Klingons
Klingons board the Station and begin access its computers. They are looking for Dr Carol Marcus; they do not believe the Station’s personnel who insist she is no longer on board the Station

Enterprise arrives in the sector and immediately engages the Klingons in battle. After a short skirmish the Klingon vessels cloak and withdraw
Captain Kirk informs Starfleet Command of the incident – Enterprise is then ordered to the escort the Vulcan refugee fleet which is heading towards the Vulcania in case the Klingon’s attack.

Vulcan Refugee Fleet – From across the entire Alpha Quadrant a mass Vulcan Fleet formed of a variety of Vulcan vessels and Vulcan’s who were not on the Planet following the destruction of the Vulcan homeworld heading towards the new colony.

Spock Prime is on the leading command vessel coordinating the relocation

USS Enterprise joins the Vulcan Fleet and escorts it the new Vulcan homeworld

New Vulcan – “Vulcania”

Shown are various settlements and construction works. In orbit new Space Dock is under construction Formal Opening Ceremony of the new Vulcan Home World – New Vulcan is formally welcomed and inducted into the Federation – Moving Speech referring to this new world as a second “new awakening”.

Spock Prime is appointed leader of the Vulcan people.

USS Enterprise- Enterprise is preparing to leave orbit of New Vulcan, when Kirk receives a communication from Admiral Pike, vital Federation defence plans and technological data have been stolen and is on the open market for the highest bidder – Kirks orders are to retrieve those stolen plans.

The Enterprise is in pursuit of a craft, and is firing to disable, Enterprise locks on a tractor beam and beams the sole occupant onto the Enterprise.

The Enterprise has been trying to find a notorious con-artist Harry Mudd suspected of acting as a “go-between”, smuggling and selling Federation technology and secrets and even trying to sell the Enterprise for the highest bidder.

Kirk, Spock and McCoy interrogate Mudd

Mudd informs Capt Kirk that he was to sell his information to Cyrano Jones on Deep Space Station K-7, near the Klingon Boarder. Mudd is thrown into brig.

K-7- Enterprise arrives at newly commissioned trading outpost of K-7 and finds out the Klingon’s are the bidders purchasing the stolen information. They are aware of the new Terraforming device and view it as a part of wider offensive strategy for fast expansion along the Klingon/Federation boarder and see potential for using the technology to alter climatic condition where Federation worlds currently exist.

Federation Colony and space station in orbit. The mysterious magnetic storm appears and makes its way towards the Space Station. Within moments, the entire Space Station is rendered powerless and inactive and its orbit begins to decay.

The magnetic storm suddenly disappears and a massive fleet of Klingon ships emerges from warp and decloaks.

Kaarg is informed that the Colony has successfully managed to establish its infantry trenches and powered up its energy shield to protect them from the Klingon orbital bombardment.

Kaarg orders a surface attack, but is furious that the Klingon Fleet decloaked too soon and gave away their element of surprise. He kills the messenger for dishonor.

The Klingon forces land their ground forces and assault vehicles. A fierce battle ensues, however the superior Klingon forces eventually overpower the Federation Colony and the destroy the generator powering the energy shield, capturing the Federation Colony.

Those Colonists which are able to scramble to which ever space worthy vessel they can get to and flee only to intercepted by the Klingon blockade in far orbit.

Starfleet Headquarters- Starfleet command is in emergency session – Key Outposts, Colonies and Vessels near the neutral zone have either been disabled, destroyed or simply vanished.
Amongst those attending are the C-in-C of Starfleet Adm Robert April, Head of Operations, Adm Pike, and Commodores Enwright, Decker and Barstow

Admiral Pike is a to address the Federation Council on the situation
In the meantime Pike orders Commodore Matt Decker is to command the Constellation and begin preparing a fleet of Federation Starships to patrol the Klingon Boarder

Federation Council – Earth, Paris

Federation President and Council are being briefed on the situation. Admiral Pike is presenting his recommendation for a task force of 50 starships along the Neutral Zone as a show of strength.
The presentation is interrupted with news of the latest Federation Colony to be destroyed.

Then a message statement from the Klingon Empire is transmitted into the Council Chamber. The Klingon Empire has formally declared war on the Federation and plan to conquer the entire Alpha Quadrant.
The Klingon’s blame the Federation for what it perceives as its aggressive colonization, terraforming and re-enforcement along the neutral zone.

They claim the testing of the Resurrection device as a powerful weapon which has the potential to destroy the Klingon Empire

Starfleet makes preparations for a galactic war

USS Enterprise- Adm Pike contacts Capt Kirk, Enterprise must retrieve the stolen plans, locate the Edison and Dr Marcus and stop a galactic war before it starts and to convince the Klingons the Resurrection device is not a threat.

Enterprise has received information that the Klingons have been testing a new electrical interference weapon and appears like a storm used from the Empire’s contact with Nero’s ship and future/borg technology, when deployed it can quickly deactivate all power systems it comes into contact with. But the prime aim of the latest Klingon offence is to obtain all data and material on the “Resurrection” device.

Enterprise then receives a Fleet wide Red Alert and is informed of the declaration of war.

Captain Kirk wants all information on Dr Carol Marcus and her research. The Enterprise crew set course for the last know position of the Edison.
Spock begins examining the nature of the new space storm and begins devising a defence.

Enterprise is now on a mission to evade all Klingon forces and discover the whereabouts and fate of the Edison science crew and to rescue Dr Marcus

Ice World – Eventually the Enterprise locates the Edison in orbit of a newly discovered system near the neutral zone. All voice hails contact having yielded nothing, a landing party is beamed aboard to see if the deserted ships log and computers could provide any information

Suddenly 2 Klingon vessels decloaks and begin firing on the Edison
Enterprise moves to intercept and a battle ensues
Enterprise eventually destroys one of the Klingon ships but other destroys the Edison and the landing party on board and cloaks and flees the system

Captain Kirk orders a full sensor sweep of the Ice Planet. Escape pods and emergency survival shelter and 30 life signs are detected. Captain Kirk, Spock, McCoy and a redshirt security detail beam down to the planet
Kirk meets Carol Marcus, there is an immediate attraction

USS Enterprise- Scotty is in command of the Enterprise, while the landing team is on the planet below

Suddenly 4 Klingon War birds decloak and start attacking the Enterprise. The landing party and the scientists beam back up to the Enterprise
With clever tactics and strategy Kirk manages to destroy 2 Klingon vessels and critically damages another. The 4th cloaks and retreats, commanding the vessel is a young Klingon warrior Chang, who cannot help but admire whoever was Captaining the Federation Starship, and proclaims one day he would long to meet the Federation Captain in person.

Kirk – Marcus

Kirk is talking with Dr Carol Marcus about the “Resurrection” Device and its potential for a weapon of mass destruction
Kirk gives Dr Marcus a tour of the Enterprise and both share a moment
A romance quickly ensues and Kirk leads Marcus to his quarters.

USS Enterprise- Enterprise is ordered to rendezvous with a massive fleet being formed by Commodore Decker near the neutral zone.
A fantastic battle between 50 starships and over 100 Klingon battle cruisers rages across the neutral zone

Suddenly the lead Klingon command vessel unleashes the Magnetic Storm weapon. Federation ship after Federation ship is rendered powerless. Including the Constellation

Enterprise and Kirk take command of the Fleet

Spock has devised a way in which a pulse can be emitted from the main navigation deflector dish to counter the magnetic field used by the Klingons.

Having destroyed the storm weapon, the battle takes on a counter point. After a lengthy and costly battle, the Federation Fleet emerges victorious

Kirk – Marcus

Towards the end of the movie, Dr Marcus informs Kirk that she is pregnant, carrying Kirk’s child.

Neither will sacrifice their respective careers, Kirk offers to marry Carol Marcus. However, given the recent battles and conflicts the Enterprise has encountered, Marcus feels life onboard a Starship is no place to raise a child, and begs Kirk to stay away from her Child. Reluctantly Kirk agrees

Marcus tells Kirk she has a new idea for rapid terraforming of a dead or lifeless planet or moon, reducing it to subatomic particles and using a pre-programmed Matrix to reassemble it into a desired configuration.
Kirk jokes she is playing God, literally creating worlds like the Bible and wanting to play Genesis. Marcus replies perhaps one day I will. Kirk and Marcus share a final embrace, and Kirk asks Carol to at least see photos and have information on their child as he/her grows up. Marcus agrees.
Enterprise sets course for the new research base, Regula 1. Dr Marcus leaves the Enterprise for the Station

McCoy and Spock go to Kirk in his quarters and help their friend

Movie End

With war adverted, Enterprise continues with its mission to explore strange, new worlds, and sets course for unknown deep space.
Movie ends with Uhura informing Kirk that a vessel has been detected, adrift in space. According to her readings, it is the SS Botany Bay.

106. Dan - July 26, 2009

102 I agree!!!

107. Malcolm Walsh - July 26, 2009

Ok Ok Ok….enough with the Khan debate, screw Khan…and no ‘re-do’ of any shows whatsover…
Here’s an idea: Why not do a cosmic-level Jim Starlin type of Star Trek story?
The one thing that really makes Star Trek so boring and unavailable to the casual veiwer is how political and stuck to one planet the show became…like really…I never cared abotu the Klingon culture or get into what made the Borg tick (which was so bad, they became pushovers and lost their ‘threatening’ presnce) or even the given workings of alien governments…but I can see why they did it: to keep the budget down.
The old Star Trek had the Enterprise crossing paths with god-like beings all the time, we met them, didnt get to learn too much of them, but they were there and way more powerful than anyone…now, combine that with a (DC) Crisis-level (Genesis, anyone Genesis?)universe shaking threat that only the crew of the Enterprise can stop, an you got a great bigger than big movie.
Now that’s more interesting imo
STAY AWAY FROM ALIEN POLITICS AND GIVE US A CRAZY HIGH STAKES ADVENTURE!!!!

108. That Nutty Fanboy - July 26, 2009

Holy *””$§%”, Batman!
It’s like the negaverse has sat down and taken a dump in here Oo

109. Fabio - July 26, 2009

Oh, yeah, gods. You mean blonde actors posing like roman senators and freezing the Enterprise with his powers… (bore!)

110. Dom - July 26, 2009

Great news! Personally, I’d like to see a standalone sequel with a couple of threads that go into the next film. I think the coolest ending of the second film would be to have the first new universe appearance of Khan Singh, leading into the next film.

111. Pauln6 - July 26, 2009

14 – I think a teaser leading to Khan and the klingons is a possiblilty too, although I’m not sure I’d want klingons in 2 and 3.

I’d quite like 2 to involve some fall out from the vulcan mess – resettlement efforts that go awry – I wouldn’t mind seeing orion pirates causing trouble maybe kidnapping a science team to make use of Sarek and Carol Marcus.

Harry Muss or Cyrano Jones could provide help negotiating with the pirates and maybe at the end of the film they flog Botany Bay unopened to some klingons.

Khan would be a terror with kligon tech especially if some of it has been reverse-engineered from future romulan tech.

If I’m honest though I want to Rand way more than I want to see Khan!

112. Pauln6 - July 26, 2009

Whoops – I meant Harry Mudd obviously!

113. spark - July 26, 2009

59. Xai – July 25, 2009
“”53. Nemesis4909 – July 25, 2009
“I can’t believe noone’s suggested this so far.

Next movie plot is so obvious:

it could be called something like “Star Trek: Strange New Worlds”. ”

Dam, beat me to the punch. I thought of that title the other day too and rather like it. I suspect we’ll see a portion of the story devoted to New Vulcan and it’s settlement.””

Yes! It could be called this but, what about just Strange New Worlds?

I don’y personally want to go back to the old Star Trek: (Colon) method of film titles.

Calling it just Strange New Worlds would be cool imo.

114. DonDonP1 - July 26, 2009

To T’Vek: Good idea. To spark: “Strange New Worlds” may be a perfect subtitle for the upcoming 12th “Star Trek” motion picture. Here’s my suggestion/idea: CBS Films should co-produce the 12th “Star Trek” motion picture with Paramount Pictures, Spyglass Entertainment and Bad Robot Productions.

115. Alan - July 26, 2009

No Kahn please. Hey, anyone notice an error in the movie. I thought Vulcans had green blood. How come when young spock was hit by the other kids, he ws bleeding red and had a red sore on his lip???

Anyway, I loved the movie, I’ve seen it a few times, can’t wait til the sequel. I would love to see shatner in it too, but I guess that is too much to ask for.

116. ChristopherPike - July 26, 2009

6: I agree. Being old school, I tend to believe alternates should not be replacements for.

117. dmduncan - July 26, 2009

102: “He is a frigging hack and I will never get over what he did to Superman.”

Wah.

104: “2 words: THE MATRIX. Making 2 movies at once doesn’t work, case and point, The Matrix sequels; Reloaded was 3/4th the original tops, while Revolutions was like 1/4th the original (and then I”m talking bout the last half hour of the film)”

Making them together had nothing to do with the end result. They would have been the same movies if they had been made years apart. And as far as I’m concerned, the sequels weren’t worse, they were about equal to the first movie, which I was not a huge fan of anyway. I wasn’t “blown away” by The Matrix any more or less than by its sequels.

118. STEMBOB - July 26, 2009

Im 29 and a big star trek fan of old and new … i just hope they DONT do a khan story and create their own double movie spectacular.

119. Wastedbeerz - July 26, 2009

#114

Dude I don’t know where you got Spock with red blood… maybe there was an error with the color of whatever you were watching it on… because I specifically remember green.

120. Richard Daystrom - July 26, 2009

105- I hereby acknowledge you as having the longest post ever (I Think)

Whatever they do, PLEASE redo engineering. I was in the Navy 4 years in the late 70′s and early 80′s and the movie engineering section didn’t look very much different from that. That really is my only gripe about JJ’s version. I will shut up now.

121. Simon - July 26, 2009

I’m reminded of all the folks that didn’t want a new “Joker” film before “The Dark Knight” came out…and proved everybody wrong.

It’s been over 25 years since we’ve seen Khan in any form, I’m confident the writers can put a contemporary spin on one of TREK’s greatest villain.

And just maybe people will be able to spell his name right (looking at #114 and many others)!

K-H-A-N. Khan. As in “Wrath of”.

122. NCC-1701 - July 26, 2009

You guys crack me up. On one hand, it’s ‘what happened to exploring space’. And in the next breath you complain about how lousy and unwatchable TMP was. TMP WAS an exploration story in line with Gene’s vision. It had it all – an unknown threat, the evolution of a life form and the need for a human spirit to tie it all together. That is textbook Roddenberry. But by and large, people don’t like it. The two that are generally considered the best, TWOK and UDC, had battles in them (along with FC), fights and little exploration. Hmmmm..

This isn’t TV. They are writing what will hopefully turn out to be another block buster. Making the story about “non-corporial beings”, or some other nonesense, is not the stuff of a block buster. Explosions, battles and fights ARE the stuff of a block buster and with any luck, the next movie will have plenty of it.

My hope is for a NEW story with lots of action, emotion and humanity. Ya – much like the one we just got. I don’t want to see Space Seed again, I want to see a new story from a talented pair of writers that will utilize the new crew and universe to it’s fullest. Whats the point of all this re-booting, recasting and effort to establish that this isn’t the same universe if all you’re going to do is tell stories that have already been told in the original universe?

Good luck, Bob. Trust your own ability to create someting new and exciting and I’m sure you guys will come up with something great.

123. Bob - July 26, 2009

Believe me, they’ll find a way to screw the new movie up.

124. Phoenix - July 26, 2009

I would actually want Bob and Alex making their own vilains up….to boldly go where no story plot has gone before?

Whatever the crew has in store for us, I SUPPORT YOU GUYS!

125. John - July 26, 2009

Please do something new!!

126. sean - July 26, 2009

#46

The alternate reality thing is a dead discussion. It’s done, the majority appear to have either not cared or accepted it. Why on earth would they go back when they spent an entire movie getting out of it? The Prime Universe received 40+ years of attention, and now that chapter is closed. Like Batman, like Bond, like Shakespeare, people will simply view it as another interpretation. If anything, I think the movie proved that people were fall less sensitive to this issue than previously thought.

127. Al - July 26, 2009

How about a time travel story to save JFK? Trufans will know of what I speak

128. Quatlo - July 26, 2009

Film the next two movies at the same time – can do.

No Khan do.

129. Quatlo - July 26, 2009

The hell with saving him, just find out exactly all that really happened.

130. RD - July 26, 2009

#12 sean wrote: I think the movie proved that people were fall less sensitive to this issue than previously thought.

Actually, I think it proves that most Trek fans have no idea what they want. Therefore, it is best just to ignore them and do what is best for the story. Which is exactly what they did.

Unless half the box office came from disgruntled Trek fans who will not see a new film from Abrams, I fully expect ST:SS to make about an equal amount of money at the box office (still not sure Trek can have the same popular mass appeal as Star Wars, or even Batman).

Frankly, I do not believe there is a Star Trek fan anywhere in the world that did not see this movie, no matter what they said publicly or anonymously on a forum. Nor do I believe there is one who will not likewise see the next film in this series.

131. Michael - July 26, 2009

What’s with the generation X and Y? Do they have 1 lone original idea in their head? Music artists steal and sample from past musicians cause they’re not cle\ver enough to come up with their own hook.Do we really want Wrath of Kahn meets The Jonas Brothers ala Clone Wars?
I hunger for a script that has a unique and original twist that’s NOT predictable. I want an ending that leaves you unsettled and wanting more..not a nicely wrapped bow or reset.
Trek has/had become rehash, retread and been there, done that, got the t-shirt @ the last con tripe.
It needs more than calling mac n’ cheese…..cheese n’ mac!
Taking risks causes less tedium in interest, than same song, different dance. I welcome Trek revamped…..I’ve got 44 year and a whole dvd library of 6 series and 10 films of the same ol same already.

132. Michael - July 26, 2009

It’s beeen Just Announced..the title for the new film!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Spock’s Brain Takes Over the Galaxy! Special guest aliens are The Singing Midgets! Follow the yellow treked void! We’re off to see a Wormhole!

133. Al - July 26, 2009

I always wonder at the guys who post entire scriptments here – do they think anyone will actually care?

134. TNC1701 - July 26, 2009

Wow, great (and welcome) update!

135. patrickaga - July 26, 2009

An “EXPLORE STRANGE NEW WORLDS” Star Trek movie would do one thing successfully: TANK massively at the box office.

99.9% of the general population DESPISE hard SCI-FI and have zero interest in it: this is a fact. Paramount are not interested in losing money with the franchise.

You guys have to just stop with the “IT MUST BE AN EXPLORATION MOVIE” because it is NEVER going to happen.

It will be action/adventure, even maybe a little be fantasy, however a hard Sci-fi “Rendezvous With Rama” Star Trek film is the REAL fantasy, unless Paramounts goal is a huge flop at the box-office.

This is a business, first and foremost. Cerebral Sci-fi films have a very limited audience and turn most people right off.

Kiingons will be in it and Khan will be in it. I would put down 254,00,000 on that.

136. fansince66 - July 26, 2009

Oh boy! An on-going saga, in trilogy form!I believe the O&K team will do great.

Since we’re in a “post-Nero”,changed universe,you guys have a blank canvas in front of you.Screw canon.Follow your “story-teller” instinct.WOW us again.

137. Wastedbeerz - July 26, 2009

How about this… an exploration movie that also deals with Khan ‘n the Klingons as villans. I’m also betting if they do this the Klingons won’t be too pleased with Khan (if they would meet) since he’s an Augment and all, and what happened back in Enterprise NX-01′s time (yes, they should DEFINITELY acknowledge this.). Also, throwing in a few of the known TOS-era Klingon commanders (Kang, Koloth, Kor… hell, maybe even a younger Chang or Gorkon) wouldn’t hurt either. I would really love to see Cardassians in this one, too.

138. Keenan - July 26, 2009

Having Khan in the new movie would make Star Trek 2 even better. It would finally do the original show justice by opening the Khan story up and showing it on a cinematic canvas. Carol Marcus would be a great addition to the story and would really make the relationship between Kirk and his 3 friends more interesting. Having Khan be the main bad guy would give the second movie a chance to be small and character focused while allowing the writers a chance to put the small story in front of a great backdrop-klingon war or a romulan war. The larger war could then be picked up in the third film. Theres so much potential but it will be hard to stay away from the original series. So much of the original was genius material but due to a low budget, well it came off a little cheesy. Now they can re-tell some of the relevant stories and do them justice. Marketing is what it will all come down to; can they market Khan? Can they market a cheesy God figure? Remember Star Trek 5…. Didn’t do too well. I hope at some point in the next two films they show the Gorn because it would be great to see them on the silver screen. Tholians wouldnt be a bad choice either; but both could be incorporated into a huge klingon/romulan war like DS9 had with the Jem H’dar. Enough of my rambles what do you fellow fans think?

139. N - July 26, 2009

I’m so sick of the Joker comparisons. The Joker has a 69 year history with Batman starting in Batman #1 & in many many comic books. Khan appeared in TWO. One Episode & One movie! Major difference! Now if the argument was for the Klingons I could understand it.

140. jonboc - July 26, 2009

…just a reminder for those who are saying no old stories…no doomsday machine, no khan…etc. You all say you want new stories. Well, the fact is, to the millions of new fans recently brought into the franchise , all of the old stories ARE new. Us old school fans are no longer the hub of which all trek revolves…there is a whole new mainstream out there, we might as well get used to it.

141. Scott Gammans - July 26, 2009

^^^ Maybe, but “Wrath of Khan” is arguably the second or third most well-known Star Trek adventure (after this summer’s blockbuster) and it would be too well-known to be rehashed now… right??

142. CarlG - July 26, 2009

@140: True, but that also means that there’s an entire backstory for new fans to explore.

We have a whole new, clean-slate universe to play in. No re-runs, please!

I’m still kind of rooting for the next film to have no villain at all…

143. Rosalie - July 26, 2009

@patrickaga

Thanks for reminding me of “Rendezvous With Rama”. Hard sci-fi is too small a niche audience to build a blockbuster on.

144. Dom - July 27, 2009

People seem to be getting their knickers in a right twist about Khan Singh appearing in a Trek film. They seem to be forgetting that this wouldn’t be a film about an Ahab-like lunatic obsessed with killing James T Kirk stealing a starship: this would be about a young, powerful, charismatic, arrogant man convinced of his is inalienable right to rule the universe based on his supposed genetic superiority and doing whatever he can to get it!

I’m essentially indifferent to Khan appearing in a subsequent film. If he does appear he could be great or he could be average. But Khan is a draw to the public: they are aware of him as if he’s the equivalent of the Joker to Batman. Ask any average member of the public to name a Star Trek bad guy and they will likely name Khan. Who outside of fans remembers the names Kruge, Shinzon, Chang and so on? Even I can’t remember the name of the bad guy from Insurrection!

So people can be really sad and chant their ‘No Khan please’ mantras on this website, but the studios will look at the figures for the first Trek film and want more. Khan makes sense on that level!

Whatever the case, I enjoyed the first new Trek film and look forward to whatever comes next!

145. Janice - July 27, 2009

No Kahn. Something original please

146. Captain John C Baron - July 27, 2009

Linking two and three makes perfect sense – just hope they boldly go in a different direction away from the black hat heavy madman out bto destroy the universe – it’s been overdone. Let’s boldly go and actually explore something!

147. me - July 27, 2009

Kang, Kor, rescue us from all the Kahnbabble.

148. james vincent - July 27, 2009

All I have to say is:
Some want space battles, and some want exploration of strange new worlds.
Look at the series Enterprise. First we had exploration without space battles, and it was heavily criticized as bad. Then in season 3 and 4, we had more action and space battles, and everyone loved it.
People need to get priorities straight in my opinion.
I’m not that happy to begin with, with the new movie, but let the writers write and hope they get the right balance. If they want Khan, then Khan it is. They want exploration or space battles, then go for it. As long as it’s good.
It’s a whole new universe to play with and a big buget to do it with.
Good luck and wishful hopes.

149. S. John Ross - July 27, 2009

#78: In all sincerity, I think they really do respect it; it’s just the “understanding it” part that’s a bit dodgy.

#144: That’s because, really, Khan _is_ the only Star Trek bad guy. All those that followed have just been two-a-penny Khan knockoffs to varying degrees, and before Khan, Star Trek wasn’t about “bad guys” at all, but rather foils that needed to be understood and defused, rather than defeated (including Khan himself, before he became a “villain” for the movies). Nero is just Khan dumbed-down, cheesed-up and elevated to high camp.

I agree that sequel’s “creative” decisions are likely to be based on cashflow potential above any kind of storytelling concerns, but as long as they’re doing that they could (I hope) look at Star Trek IV, which made very good bank for the time and wasn’t about “beating up a bad guy.”

150. S. John Ross - July 27, 2009

#148: “I’m not that happy to begin with, with the new movie, but let the writers write and hope they get the right balance.”

It isn’t in our power to let the writers write, or to prevent them or impede them. This is the peanut gallery; all we get to do is comment :)

151. USS Manila NCC-99232 - July 27, 2009

This really brings back the old days of Kirk, but a new timeline alright.
I just want Star Trek to succeed and be popular again since its previous ratings dropped at the entry of the year 2000.

152. The First Son of Krypton - July 27, 2009

I dunno, I keep getting this image in my head of seeing the Botany Bay floating through space at the end of ST: SS, thus, the thread for the third film

153. jobryant - July 27, 2009

133. Al – July 26, 2009 Wrote
“I always wonder at the guys who post entire scriptments here – do they think anyone will actually care?”

When I read those posts, I actually picture Bob Orci reading it and saying “Wow, that’s a pretty cool idea”. He then follows up with “too bad I can’t use it. Not no interested in giving that guy half my salary”

154. captain_neill - July 27, 2009

I am sure there are many like me who like the film but still prefer the originals. I buy the fact that there is now two timelines, two universes would be better. I like the fact there are two universes now, it is no different than having another mirror universe and how many times has Trek done alternate realities.

The orignal time line is still intact, Vulcan is still intact is still there.

There is no way in hell that I am letting JJ Abrams tell me that TOS -VOY is now the equivalent of the Dream season of Dallas.

155. KingDaniel - July 27, 2009

As long as they don’t to a Matrix Reloaded “to be continued”.

I will be furious.

If they “fix” the timeline (i.e. back to TOS) to appease a few OCD Trekkers it would be the worst thing imaginable. Trek needs to move on! It has! Get on the bus or stop crying!

156. captain_neill - July 27, 2009

The reason I dont want Khan is that I dont want Trek to go the way of other films and have them all be remakes.

I thought the whole reason of doing a parallel timeline was to get away from canon issues, not remake them

157. KingDaniel - July 27, 2009

Also the sequel needs the brilliant Mr Arex in it.

Arex has been overdue a return for decades. We now have the technology to bring him to life in a big-budget Trek movie.

Bring back Mr Arex!!!

158. doug_skywalker - July 27, 2009

In terms of sequels, or ‘Acts II and III’, why not have Kirk find the Guardian of Forever and have him take the REAL Koboyashi Maru by replacing his father George on the bridge of the USS Kelvin with himself during Nero’s attack?

That way, he could ‘right’ the timeline by allowing himself to know his father…

159. doug_skywalker - July 27, 2009

and then the third film could be called ‘ST: Race to Forever’ or something…

160. screaming satellite - July 27, 2009

152 – i dont think they’ll do that now as everyone kind of expects it

161. screaming satellite - July 27, 2009

159 – no itd be Star Trek: The Wrath of Ellison

162. james vincent - July 27, 2009

150. S. John Ross:
It isn’t in our power to let the writers write, or to prevent them or impede them. This is the peanut gallery; all we get to do is comment :)

I understand. I just felt that I would comment, that a writers job is to write, and that we let them. Which we will. I just wanted to make the point that the writers will write what they fell is right, even if it’s not what we like. (Although hopefully we like it) And this is a good enough place to give ideas. As I said before, everyone has their opinions, and not all will be taken by the writers.
I’m just glad that Trekkers still feel Star Trek enough to give opiniones. And I’m proud to be a part of this community.

163. I, Mugsy - July 27, 2009

No Khan, or Klingons, or Rumulans or anything else that we’ve ALREADY SEEN!!!

Star Trek SHOULD be breaking new Frontiers (forgive the pun). As I said earlier, Avatar has ALREADY beaten Star trek (by the looks of things) in it’s depiction of a strange NEW world. Star Trek is being beaten at its own game here! Now that the new crew are in place, lets MOVE FORWARD, not re-explore old enemies/situations that made Star Trek stale over the years in the first place.

Star Trek ISN’T Star Wars – it is about exploration! For all it’s brilliance, The Wrath of Khan is a war movie and took Star Trek in the wrong direction in my opinion.

I’ll say it again – Star Trek is about EXPLORATION! It’s about optimism (well OK most of the time haha!) Lets explore the galaxy and

“see what’s out there!”

- I,Mugsy

164. wowseruk - July 27, 2009

I suggested that to the team here in a message after seeing the new star trek. Even making an epic three parter which franchises seem to love these days especially after the insane success of LOTR.
Now – Put me on the writing staff! :)

165. screaming satellite - July 27, 2009

163 – “No Khan, or Klingons, or Rumulans or anything else that we’ve ALREADY SEEN!!!”

I’ll have a rumulan ale please!

hey if theyd applied that rational to ST09 thered have been no Kirk, no spock, no Bones, no NCC 1701, etc etc

so you want Trek does Asimov by way of Arthur C Clarke…. a TMP style film or Star Trek: Solaris

aint gonna happen bud ~ see #34 and #135 for why

166. dmduncan - July 27, 2009

1. To all those still crying about Khan: You can stop now. They’ve made their decision to do whatever they are going to do one way or the other and crying about it or casting your votes isn’t going to change anything.

2. Unless Paramount pays Harlan Ellison, there will be no Guardian of Forever stories ever again in Star Trek. Ellison is litigious, holds a grudge against Paramount and Star Trek, and already threatened to sue over the mere mention of using what he considers to be HIS Star Trek material without compensation, which Paramount will probably not want to give or waste time in court fighting about, over the mere rumor that the Guardian would be used in Trek ’09.

So the Guardian stuff ain’t gonna hap’n cap’n.

167. Son of a Maui Portagee - July 27, 2009

#126, “Why on earth would they go back when they spent an entire movie getting out of it?”

Perhaps if I paraphrase it you will seer: “Why on earth would they resurrect Spock when they spent an entire movie getting him out of it?”

168. Mitch - July 27, 2009

I would just like to avoid a repeat of the mistakes of the last movie regarding Shatner. Of course, I want him in the movie. But if that can’t happen, or they don’t want to go that route, just say so early and often.

You have the option to do either this time. But please, you can still have all the secrecy you want without dragging along the “will Shatner be in the movie” issue and giving fans false hopes when there is nothing written for him.

And by the way, for what it’s worth, I think Khan is a terrible idea. You’ll never TOP the Space Seed/TWOK story. Khan is a single individual, whose story was brilliantly told.

You COULD however, explore many other TOS characters, including Gary Seven, who actually might even serve as a link between timelines and may even provide that bridge to Shatner.

Oh, and killing a main character just because you can? Bad idea.

169. screaming satellite - July 27, 2009

165 – if they ever slipped up and used the GOF or Edith Keeler in a future movie without Ellisons permision hed sue and sue and sue..and just when they thought he was done…hed sue some more…

170. Mitch - July 27, 2009

Thing is though–how much could those rights for the Guardian be worth? We’re talking a movie that, barring a severe failure by this team, is going to do well. Even if it doesn’t do what ST11 did, it will certainly do well enough to justify paying Ellison for the rights to his story. Ellison is all about the money. He doesn’t do anything for free. So what? He does have a right. If they feel the Guardian can enhance their story, then USE it.

171. Son of a Maui Portagee - July 27, 2009

#169.

As Paramount would do you if you ever slipped up and made any of their copyrighted properties available for download. Your point being?

#170.

I’m sure Brad Weston and Gail Berman would tell you that the future is never certain in Hollywood.

“Point being, for all the justified rejoicing, the Star Trek reboot will still depend on DVD/Blu Ray sales to actually make a profit.” – Scott Mendelson, HUFFINGTON POST

huffingtonpost.com/scott-mendelson/harry-potter-and-the-half_b_240244.html

172. RD - July 27, 2009

#161 & #159 – 

Forget Ellison. If Abrams wanted to do the Guardian of Forever, Paramount would back him. Paramount is not afraid of Ellison as they would win any lawsuit Ellison brought without blinking an eye. The publicity would only help them sell videos & merchandise “COTEOF” related and promote the new movie. If Ellison is owed royalties, he’s owed them regardless of whether Paramount or CBS continues to exploit a property they have legal rights to.

The reason there will never be another “Guardian of Forever” as long as Orci is writing and producing is because based on his use of the theory of MWI QM governing time travel, which he promises to adhere to (until it’s replaced by a more respected theory), the Guardian of Forever CANNOT exist in this alternate reality, because it doesn’t follow current majority thinking about how time travel might work in quantum mechanics.

Therefore, there can be no stories revolving around that kind of time travel. At best, The Guardian of Forever could merely be a quantum portal which creates new branches of the universe allowing those who step through to exist in an alternate reality where they did not before. It would be a one-way portal only at that.

Further, there is no point in doing a time travel story since the result would only be to move the characters into a new universe and alternate reality. Then again, that would be a good way to get rid of Prime Spock. Otherwise, everyone they know will actually be different people, just like Pine and Quinto are a different Kirk and Spock. The point is, they can never go back to the universe from which they originated, and what’s the point of that? How many universes do we want to exist in Star Trek?

173. screaming satellite - July 27, 2009

#105

Man that was a long read (well skim read)…but it was actually pretty good! sort of a prequel to TWOK and also quite similar to TUC

i guess it that turns out to be Trek 12 you gonna find urself in a difficult postition!

174. Son of a Maui Portagee - July 27, 2009

#130. “Frankly, I do not believe there is a Star Trek fan anywhere in the world that did not see this movie, no matter what they said publicly or anonymously on a forum. Nor do I believe there is one who will not likewise see the next film in this series.” – RD

That’s an extremely sweeping generalization. And easily proven false by the fact that there are blind Trek fans.

Long before the film franchise launched, Trek fandom had splintered and fractured. All united in their love of STAR TREK but each slavishly devoted to what they perceive as its true essence. Believe it or not there are fans who would never cross the threshold of a theater as they fervidly believe that their Trek could never ever be found there. There are fans solely devoted to Trek in print form and even that splits between illustrated and non-illustrated.

If history should teach Paramount anything, it may be a big mistake to take as long as two and a half years to ride such a wave to the next movie. Spring something novel after a long drought of Trek and a lot of them will sit on the fence, err on the side of optimism, and go, but give them over 2 years to argue and debate about it and it may not matter how much better the next Trek movie might be, the attendance wanes (TMP->TWoK).

175. Son of a Maui Portagee - July 27, 2009

#172.

I think I get what you are trying to say from the pov of the writers. But you appear to be seeing MWI as limiting whereas I would tend to think of it is anything but.

The Guardian is clearly something that is to be thought of as exceeding even our civilization’s most advanced theories. But even when we fit it to our limited thoughts, it could be thought of as a Hades ruling a Quantum Mechanical Trap.

Exceed the parameters of whatever rules it goes by and you are trapped in a new universe almost literally a hell of your own making. Straighten out the new universe and it returns you “home”.

Actually, I think the biggest problem for MWI in the new Trek is Orci’s own violations of it. Once Nero destroyed the Kelvin, he created new quantum possibilities, i.e. a new universe other than the one sprung into existence by his mere time travel. It should have been extremely hard to at least darn near impossible for Spock Prime to “accidentally” have found his way into it – let alone 25 years after the fact.

I mean that two time travelers could go back into a universe’s time stream at different points and eventually catch up is guiding principle of CotEoF’s time eddies and not MWI. Is it not?

176. John from Cincinnati - July 27, 2009

There is a reason the original is called Prime and this new universe is called alternate. I agree the next few movies are going to exist in the jjverse. What I am saying is, the way they set this up means there is an unavoidable reconciliation between the two universes that will have to happen one way or another at some time. The two universes can not co-exist forever. Please, stop being such haters.

177. John from Cincinnati - July 27, 2009

172.

But the Guardian was a two-way portal, Kirk and Spock proved that in ‘City on the Edge of Forever’. Unless, the guardian created a new universe when they stepped back with McCoy, essenially mimicking their original universe before McCoy destroyed it and then sitting out there in another universe are the original Kirk, Spock, Uhura and Scotty still stranded on the planet of the Guardian of Forever.

178. RD - July 27, 2009

#175 – as has been pointed out, Orci can always change his mind and say so when called on it. However, the Guardian may be technologically advanced, but Spock understands what it does. In other words, it still uses established laws for time travel as it was popularly understood in 1967. Spock says the Guardian should not do what it does, but he correctly asses what it does as confirmed by the Guardian. Since this is the case, it means the Guardian uses the most current science available at the time the story was told. What it does is science fiction but the principles are based on our understanding of science. In other words MWI QM currently defines physics for the Trek universe as decided by Orci. Since the laws of physics are absolute, the Guardian must conform to them. Since the Guardian can alter a linear timeline, it can no longer exist to serve that purpose, because that is not one of the laws of physics in Orci’s universe.

As for seemingly breaking his own rules … well he is “cheating”. That’s where the science fiction comes in. Nobody knows how a quantum event would actually manifest itself. So Orci has said, by applying MWI QM a new universe has branched into existence by Nero & Spock’s incursion. But without explaining it, he’s indicated something akin to a time dilation event on the destination end of the quantum event/wormhole. Nero came out of the wormhole at the beginning of it and the wormhole stayed open for 25 years and Spock came out before it collapsed. Even though the event only took a few seconds in the Prime universe … there is nothing in MWI QM that contradicts my explanation from happening because it is just a theory, yet the net result of applying the theory results in an expected outcome. Further there is nothing in the film that contradicts that explanation, which is one of many the fans have had to supply themselves to make up for an extremely weakly constructed script full of plot holes.

So, unless Orci changes his mind, or the majority of theoretical physicists develop another more preferable view of QM before the next movie, then there will be no linear time-travel stories, Mirror universes, or bidirectional travel between alternate universes.

179. John from Cincinnati - July 27, 2009

172 said “How many universes do we want to exist in Star Trek?”

EXACTLY my point. Having more than one universe is already obsurd. Can you imagine Star Wars existing in multiple universes? Kids at school talking about it, who is your favorite character? Mine is Han Solo from universe 1, Luke Skywalker from universe 14 and my third favorite is Leia Vader from universe 1B2B3. Ridiculous. Paramount pictures has a money maker on their hands but eventually this hit will burn out eventually. What happens after Pine and Quinto’s contracts are up? I doubt they are going to make a dozen Star Trek movies over the next 20 years. Then what? The Prime universe is still out there. Someone might want to revisit that. Someone might want to reconcile the two universes eventually.

180. RD - July 27, 2009

#177 –– The Guardian of Forever doesn’t exist in this universe, at least not in the same way. Orci does not concern himself about previous canon or retconning it with current canon. He is on record as saying some canon will not work with the new movie, in the same way stories told when it was thought the Earth was flat will not work with stories told now. Therefore, no Guardian in the new universe, or at least if there is, Orci likely will not visit it for the reasons I have stated. In any event, you can’t apply anything you know about how it works to this universe as long as Orci is in the driver’s seat.

#179 –– and this is one of the reasons. However, you made your point for completely different reasons than did I. As long as Trek is making close to $400M worldwide per picture by the 4th installment, I fully expect Pine and Quinto to sign up for more movies. I expect them to make at least 6, which gets us 12 more years. But to speculate on your question, since the whole point of the alternate universe is to rid themselves of 40 years and 715 hours of canon, it is unlikely they would leave the alternate universe for the prime, even after Quinto and Pine walk away from the franchise. But I think Nimoy and Shatner have shown, nobody ever really walks away. That said, with only 12 hours of new canon, no producer in his right mind would want to go back to 715 hours worth of canon. If anything, they’ll give us young Jim Kirk and the academy days for 10 more years. Then they’ll get Pine and Quinto together for a reunion film. If they are really smart, they will spin off some new characters along the way to do TV, or other adventures like those aboard the Farragut in the same way they created such an amazing cast and spinoff with DS9, but with feature films. If they develop a new TV show, they may even be able to do the TOS/TNG film transition, but much more effectively.

But go back to the Prime Universe? Not likely. Change Orci’s observed laws of physics so they can visit the Guardian of Forever? More likely. By that time, no one will care how we actually got into the Alternate universe, Orci will be gone and they can do anything they want free of 40 years of stale canon.

181. Son of a Maui Portagee - July 27, 2009

#178

Well, I don’t think you can read too much into The Guardian’s responses as it claimed to respond as best for your limited understanding and not necessarily with the absolute truth.

I also suppose since you are concerning yourself with what a writer might or might not do, it might be best to stick with what Ellison says The Guardian can or can not do?

Unfortunately, there doesn’t appear to be much from him with regards to The Guardian(s):

http://harlanellison.com/review/forever.htm

182. RD - July 27, 2009

#181 –– Ellison has nothing more to say about how The Guardian functions, unless he is hired to write another script. Even then, there is nothing the Guardian can do that isn’t depicted on screen. SInce it is unlikely Ellison will ever be hired by Paramount again, he has provided all the canon regarding the Guardian he will ever give. CBS now owns the Guardian of Forever lock, stock & barrel. They can give the concept to anyone they wish to do anything they wish. In this case, Orci, if he so chooses. My only point about The Gurdian is this: Orci won’t use it since it doesn’t fit with MWI QM.

But here’s the rub. MWI QM is not canon. Until it is depicted on screen, it remains simply the idle ramblings of one of the writer/producers. In fact, no matter how much ancillary material is “officially” produced concerning the Prime universe, there is no canon that proves it exists –– only that it once existed. At this time, no one, not even the writers can say there is an Alternate universe and a Prime universe, because it has not been demonstrated on screen. Until that time, The Guardian could easily be alive and well working the way it always has. But once MWI QM becomes an incontrovertible part of canon, then The Guardian will no longer be viable in the alternate universe.

Either way, whatever unseen properties Ellison imbued The Guardian with have no bearing on how the Guardian behaves beyond what was depicted on film and definitely have no effect on what future writers may choose to give it. All I know is that The Gurdian violates Orci’s stated writing tenets for Trek and thus he will not incorporate it into a story line he writes. What a future writer may do is another story.

183. S. John Ross - July 28, 2009

RD sez: “on his use of the theory of MWI QM governing time travel, which he promises to adhere to (until it’s replaced by a more respected theory)”

Oh man. Have I got a bridge I want to sell you.

184. S. John Ross - July 28, 2009

#179: “EXACTLY my point. Having more than one universe is already obsurd. Can you imagine Star Wars existing in multiple universes? Kids at school talking about it, who is your favorite character? Mine is Han Solo from universe 1, Luke Skywalker from universe 14 and my third favorite is Leia Vader from universe 1B2B3. Ridiculous.”

Maybe the filmmakers are fans of old DC comics :)

185. Mitch - July 28, 2009

Given that this movie is supposed to take place within Trek canon, even if it did rewrite it, nothing Nero could have done would affect the existence of the Guardian of Forever.

If they can’t live with the rules established in GR’s Star Trek, then why work on a movie called Star Trek? Create something and see if they can equal or even top it.

But since they did choose to work in the Star Trek franchise, they are bound by its rules unless they want to bastardize it.

The bottom line is that nothing in the movie regarding time travel actually supports anything said in interviews, and interviews aren’t canon.

186. RD - July 28, 2009

185. Mitch wrote: “But since they did choose to work in the Star Trek franchise, they are bound by its rules unless they want to bastardize it.

Hey S. John Ross, I’ll take the bridge, but you might want to unload that swampland on Mitch! LOL

Mitch, you said it, I didn’t. I think it is obvious what they are doing: In their first movie they blew up Vulcan – who needs it.

IF the Guardian of Forever works the way it always has, THEN the Prime Universe is GONE. You can have it one way or the other, but not both. If it’s classical time travel, then everything we’ve known from 2233 forward is gone forever, replaced by the new timeline and there will never be any “going back” to the “Prime Universe” after 2233. If the “Prime Universe” still exists, then you have to accept the off-screen explanation offered by Orci and apply MWI QM to everything including the Guardian and Prime universe canon.

Once again, Orci likens this to stories told about a character before it was accepted that the Earth was round. Once you accept the latter, those stories still exist, but any that directly contradict the modern perception cannot be reconciled with canon (and essentially ignored). Orci never signed a contract to be “bound by [the] rules” of the franchise. In fact they’ve made it pretty clear they want to be completely unencumbered by them.

The bottom line is that Orci has said he will not write a story that contradicts MWI QM and therefore, he will not write a story about The Guardian of Forever, just like he will not write a story about Spock sling-shoting around the sun to save Vulcan. I sincerely doubt the question of MWI QM or the existence of the Prime Universe will ever be canon – it is simply NOT in anyone’s best interest for all the reasons I proposed above.

187. Joseph - July 28, 2009

How is the Guardian of Forever not consistent with quantum mechanics? After all, Kirk and the rest of the landing party continued to exist after the timeline “changed”, which means that the events that created them must have still happened. It’s logically impossible for the Enterprise to have never existed if they’re on the planet. And you can’t argue any kind of shielding or so forth, because any such device wouldn’t have an effect until they arrived. And if it extended all the way back to every circumstance that lead them to arriving there, you couldn’t change the timeline to begin with.
Consider this: the Guardian of Forever (and quite possibly the entire planet) is designed not to change time, but to engineer new universes for its creators. When McCoy went back into the past, the Guardian pulled everyone on the surface of the planet into the “new” reality that McCoy had created. Which means that Spock and Kirk’s job wasn’t to restore time, but rather to steer the Guardian back towards their own universe.
Such a device would actually make a lot more sense, and I’d argue be a much more interesting technology from the dramatic and symbolic standpoint, than a time machine that allowed you to wipe out your own history. It would allow you to engineer external circumstances with impunity, knowing that your civilization’s history would be intact. It’s the ultimate expression of xenophobia. Of course this raises the issue of what the Guardian does with the other versions of its creator’s planet that it displaces. My guess would be it uses them for fuel, which might explain why the planet is a dead world when the Enterprise finds it. The creators of the Guardian might have just kept hopping from universe to universe in search of some utopia where they could thrive.
…You know, that might actually make a pretty cool plot for these films.

188. Son of a Maui Portagee - July 28, 2009

#185.

That’s pretty much where I was steering our conversation. Except, I wanted to explore RD’s “what a writer will or will not do” against what one would have had done.

I would have also got around to the point that Gail Berman, Brad Weston, John Lesher, and Paramount’s 2Q can all attest that the future is never as certain in Hollywood as it is in a production’s script.

#182.

Ellison already had experience in selling scripts to shows such as THE OUTER LIMITS by the time he sold CotEoF. He didn’t go with a standard studio contract, i.e. he didn’t abandon all rights. It is perhaps more accurate to say that Mr. Ellison is a partner, albeit silent – and that only as long as they compensate him for the uses CBS so chooses to make of same, in the ownership of the things he created in that script. To that end, he currently has litigation to determine if the other “partners” have been upholding their end of the deal which he contends they haven’t.

That lawsuit and the injunctions it may engender are liable to currently carry more weight in keeping The Guardian out of any immediately foreseeable Trek than a writer’s musings about what he won’t be inspired to do or CBS’ whims.

189. RD - July 28, 2009

#187 –– Joseph, you are retconing the way The Guardian canonically works to conform to Orci’s universe, which I have said all along is a requirement in order to use it. What I have also said is such a use is problematic since it branches into a new universe upon each trip, creating brand new alternates for each character. The way The Guardian works in canon most definitely violates MWI QM.

#188 –– whatever the specifics of Ellison’s claims, CBS most certainly has a responsibility to honor the terms of the contract. If they aren’t paying him, then they will be compelled to by the courts. It is a black & white issue. This is a similar situation with any writer who is due appropriate royalties through the WGA contracts with a studio. If the studio fails to pay them the WGA can sue them. What I would almost guarantee is that Eliison is not entitled to enjoin distribution or otherwise restrict production of material surrounding the property, but rather the studio is only obligated to compensate him, which the courts will decide accordingly, if they are derelict. Has his contract been made public? If so I would love to take a gander at it … Otherwise, CBS might encourage Paramount to avoid the property, but considering the money Trek is making, unlikely to be a deterrent should the production team come up with a compelling story they want to use – CBS will just have to pay what they owe Ellison and take it out of their license fee from Paramount.

My point is that it is a moot argument anyway since the Guardian does not conform to MWI QM. When asked if Orci ever considered The Guardian of Forever he had a one word answer: “No”.

190. Son of a Maui Portagee - July 28, 2009

#189.

Apparently Ellison holds a much stronger hand than anyone could have imagined given this history of litigation:

http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/08/29/Harlan_Ellison_Wants_Paramount_To_Beam_Up_Royalties_For_Star_Trek_.htm

“”Ellison signed a contract with Paramount’s predecessor in interest, DesiLu Studios, when he wrote the 1967 screenplay. However, DesiLu never registered its copyright of the episode, and didn’t even register the episode as having been broadcasted. After Paramount took over the rights to “Star Trek,” it registered a significantly edited copy of Ellison’s episode as having been produced in 1975. But Ellison had already registered his own copyright, using the original screenplay without editing.
Since then, Paramount issued two agreements to pay Ellison royalties for the “City on the Edge of Forever” episode. Ellison has also received part of a Writers’ Guild of America settlement with Paramount that the guild filed after Paramount authorized earlier novelizations of “Star Trek” episodes.
Now, Ellison says, Paramount is again withholding payment after licensing the rights to his “City” plot to Simon & Schuster.
Ellison wants damages, interest, accounting and costs. He is represented in Superior Court by John Carmichael.”” – Karina Brown, COURTHOUSE NEWS SERVICE

If that reporting is accurate, apparently Ellison is the only one with copyrights to be asserted on 16mm distribution prints of the episode produced prior to 1975. CBS would be wise to keep him happy as apparently he is the only thing standing in the way of a legal flood of copies of those prints entering the market.

It does seem odd that given that history that more isn’t in the public record.
And I have to wonder if the 1975 copyright had anything to do with TAS’ YESTERYEAR?

191. Keenan - July 28, 2009

Kang, Kor, Koloth are all good ideas and would fit perfectly in any story involving Klingons big or small. I hope they put them in somehow. Kahn would fit in perfectly in any story because they just stumble upon him in the original. Gorn, Tholians, etc are two i would love to see re-imagined. The guardian…. It could be done but then we’d have yet another movie about time travel/alteernate universes etc. I thinks its better to go off of whats going on in this universe. My personal opinion is that killing Spock off in the next movie would really drive any story forward and it would give mr. Nimoy a chance to go out on top. Shat showing up in one of the new movies wouldnt be bad but…. it would be hard to pull off unless it was a flashback sort of thing. Carol Marcus should be in it to give Kirk a deeper character and would really compliment the first movie as far as what happens to his father. What was the episode with the planet killer? that wouldnt be a bad idea. A lot of the Original series had such wonderful moments and i really hope to see some of those elements in the new movies. Regardless of what story they choose Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are a winning formula.

192. RD - July 28, 2009

#191 –– Sounds like they need to resurrect Roddenberry’s original script idea for Star Trek II: the crew of the Enterprise travel back in time to set right a corrupted time line after Klingons use the Guardian of Forever to prevent the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

Wow. Is it any wonder Paramount replaced him with Harve Bennett?

#190 –– definitely sounds more complicated than I previously understood it. The key is what is in those agreements and whether Paramount actually forfeited its copyright to the underlying rights. The copyright issues from first publication and the standard studio agreement has language to the effect that the writer will execute whatever documents are necessary to enforce the studio’s copyright. But as you say this is an extremely sorted situation. However, I’m sure you’ve read the original Ellison script which bears little resemblance to the finished episode, which Ellison detested and tried to distance himself from – so I’m not entirely sure how he was able to copyright it. Sounds like a mess, though I would expect the studio to ultimately prevail. Obviously without either of us knowing more, it’s difficult to make any assumptions about it. What’s interesting is that his own letter mentions nothing about the copyright issue, which would seem to be a very big feather if accurate.
http://harlanellison.com/heboard/visitors/startrekpressrelease.html

So I return to my original thought that any Gaurdian plots are rendered moot by MWI QM.

193. Christine - July 29, 2009

I want to see something in this that we haven’t seen in something TOS related. I want ORIGINALITY. I don’t care if you have to bring in the Dominion 150 years early or namely “antagonize” the Andorians like in ENT, I want something different!

And thus is my rant. xD;

194. S. John Ross - July 29, 2009

#193: “I want ORIGINALITY.”

And I want a pony.

But hey, at least this time there wasn’t a plagiarism lawsuit. That’s progress, right?

195. John from Cincinnati - July 29, 2009

One can not invent their own reason as to how the Guardian works just to keep it out of the jjverse. Besides, like Spock says “there always are, possibilities.” Other time travel methods include slingshotting around the sun, the Atavacron from ‘All our Yesterdays”, and Q. It is an invalid argument to say just because one resides in an alternate universe that the normal laws of physics don’t apply. Can you give me ONE example from any of the alternate universes where the laws of physics are different from one to another? The slingshot effect may be the best course of action to avoid Ellison’s lawyers and to restore the universe and Vulcan. Orci and team created this whole alternate universe from a black hole. So in science fiction, anything is possible and since most fans on here don’t care about consistency, even more possible in the jjverse. A lot of haters love to point out TOS was never consistent, therefore changes made in jjverse are justified and new stories are required. That is like saying mankind is flawed, therefore no reason to continually trying to improve ourselves. Obsurd.

I also suggest the entire Vulcan race is destined to go mad in jjverse. Pon farr says Vulcan must return to their ancestral breeding grounds or die trying. Without Vulcan around, they are destined to go mad or die.

196. John from Cincinnati - July 29, 2009

RD.

You are also wrong on another point. The alternate universe is mentioned on film in the new movie. When they were all on the bridge they were talking about Nero and him coming through the black hole and Uhura says “we are in an alternate reality”. Also, there was a dialog between new Kirk and Prime Spock in the caves, this is from Bob Orci, where Kirk describes his friends and Prime Spock says ‘fascinating, they sound like how I remember them, perhaps this is the timeline trying to repair itself.” This line was removed from the movie as it implies there is only one timeline.

197. John from Cincinnati - July 29, 2009

Whether one wants to believe in the multi universe theory or the single linear timeline theory is moot. The fact is time travel methods exist in whichever theory ones wishes to believe. Also, I contend Prime Spock would be HIGHLY MOTIVATED to go back in time and restore the universe as he knows it. Prime Spock blamed himself for Nero’s actions. Prime Spock blames himself that his mother died earlier than she was supposed to and that billions of Vulcans and the entire planet got destroyed and the entire timeline got forever changed. If I were Prime Spock, I would find the Guardian of Forever or slingshot around the sun with a superior ship and blast Nero the moment he comes through the black hole. Of course, all of this to happen after a few more movies and possibly another Tv series to Paramount can milk this baby for all they can.

198. John from Cincinnati - July 29, 2009

Let’s also explore the importance of the words that are used. It is canon as merchandise has already been created . “Prime Spock” for instance. Paramount has to approve all merchandising so you know they approved of the use of the words Prime Spock.

Prime – adj. – of the first importance, demanding the fullest consideration
– of the greatest relevance or significance
– best quality

Alternate – adj – second of a series
– reciprocal; mutual
– being in a constant state of succession or ROTATION

So, just as Paramount itself, as well as the writers themselves have described the two universes, this new alternate universe is inferior in relevance and significance to the Prime universe. Notice, they didn’t use the words original and new, but Prime and Alternate.

199. RD - July 29, 2009

John from Cincinnati – were that Closettrekker were around to tear you a new one ;-)

My friend you have totally missed the point of what has been discussed for months on this forum.

Orci has stated that MWI QM is theory which provides for time travel. There will be no more linear timetravel as long as he is writing. Therefore, no Gurdian, no slingshotting around the sun, no Atavacron. And yes, it is a different application of physics than understood for TOS.

The fact that Lt. Uhura said “an alternate reality” on camera only confirms that Spock’s reality is different from her own. Not that they are living in an alternate universe.

Calling Spock “Prime” does nothing to establish his importance vis-a-vis canon. Canon = On Screen, NOT cut scenes, dialogue, merchandise, novels or writer’s elaborations. All I infer “Prime” to mean in this case is “first”.

Bottom line, nothing you’ve proposed matters as long as:

1) Orci does not make MWI QM canon and/or
2) A future writer does decide to go back to the traditional method of time travel.

For now, there will be no more traveling through time or universes, probably for a decade or more. I contend by that time, Pine and Quinto will have supplanted Shatner and Nimoy and not only will future producers NOT go back to the “Prime” timeline, the “alternate” timeline will have supplanted the “Prime” timeline as the defacto Trek universe for all future generations. But that of course IS speculation.

200. james vincent - July 29, 2009

It’s fiction. It’s whatever we want it to be.

Would you not watch the movie “The Time Machine”, because it’s version of time travel isn’t real?

For me, every time travel scene counts. You can’t just forget about all that came before. There are various ways of time travel in the “TREK UNIVERSE” (fiction).
I believe (in trek universe) that you can time travel with guardian of forever, slingshot around sun, blackholes, wormholes, and advanced and future technologies and lifeforms.

ITS FICTION. NOT REAL.

I must agree with *John from Cincinnati*

I also think that Prime Spock dosen’t have to fix anything, he just has to go back to his universe. And FIN.
We already have the new actores in their new roles (new faces for old characters). Now they can be in the Prime universe without problems. They are just the new faces introduced for all our benefits. They can make the Pre-Trek now without having to use Alternate universes as new Prime universes.

Its all Fiction. Science FICTION at that. I don’t care about the tecnologies as much as I do for the incredible stories told.

ANY and EVERY thing should count.

201. LIS Fan - July 29, 2009

How about this for a story. The enterprise crew find the Jupiter 2 from Lost in Space and the Robinsons and Doctor smith are in suspended animation. they thaw out the Robinsons, and Doctor Smith sabotages the enterprise. The robot says Danger Will Robinson a few times and all is well.

202. RD - July 29, 2009

#200. I don’t disagree with you, or John from Cincinnati. But that is not the point.

The point is as long as Oric is driving, the plots are going to adhere to MWI QM. Which means, Spock cannot go back to his own universe, No Guardian of Forever, No slingshotting around the sun, etc.

I personally see this movie as a reboot. Period. For me this is no different than Batman Begins. I could care less if all the pieces from the old series & films fit together with the new. I’ll just enjoy whatever they see fit to offer up (and criticize accordingly ;-). Afterall, it’s not real, it’s just fiction.

But unless Orci changes his mind, there will be no new fiction involving time travel, or inter-universe travel. So, there’s no need to worry about whether The Guardian works the same way or not, or if it even still exists.

203. james vincent - July 31, 2009

202. RD

OK. I understand what your saying. I just think Orci isn’t the one to decide to change whatever he wants in Star Trek. If he decides that only his way is the way, then for me, he has crossed the very fat line that Star Trek has between good and bad. And I for one want him to know that he has.

WTF? Is he the only one who can call the shots now. Does he make the rules? YES and NO.

If he tried so hard to not break canon with Star Trek 2009, then he can’t just break canon now forgetting that time travel in Star Trek exist, and not just his Red Matter time travel.

To Mr. Orci:
You do not make the rules for Star Trek, so stop it. The Guardian exist and you can’t do anything about it.

Don’t take offense to my comments. I just want you to know how I (and probably more fans) feel about your decision to disregard all that came BEFORE you.

204. RD - August 2, 2009

#203 – I doubt anyone will see this response to your last comment considering how far from the top of page one news it is, but here goes:

1) Everything Orci has said, o/b/o himself and Kurtzman, indicate that he will not change his position regarding MWI QM. Since they, Abrams and Lindelof are calling all the shots, their vote certainly weighs in heavily. Interestingly, Lindelof is using traditional time-travel rules on his show LOST: i.e. the past effects the future. I don’t believe Abrams has weighed in, but has supported Orci as the keeper of Trek canon.

2) Trek has not made MWI QM canon. At anytime, Abrams and Lindelof could override Orci if they wanted to make a story using the Guardian, or the Mirror Universe. This would have the effect of making Orci look like an idiot, but otherwise does not violate ANY established canon.

3) We are engaged in idle speculation here. If Abrams doesn’t do a film about The Guradian, or Mirror universes or Time travel, then there is no need to worry about what physics laws Orci personally thinks are in play in this universe. There have been plenty of effective fan retcon explanations of why Spock Prime does not behave as I would expect him to, or why Daniels or some other time police don’t come back to fix the problem, the least of which is Spock Prime is formulating a way to most effectively fix the timeline, which won’t happen until a new team takes over the franchise and permits traditional time travel. With any luck Mr. Nimoy will be alive to make that movie that finally returns Spock to his own universe.

4) The reality is that as long as Abrams makes money at the box office, the current producers could go on for 10-15 years. I would expect at least 6 or 7 films with this cast due to their age and based on the sustained success of the franchise and ability of the actors to do other work which keeps them coming back. What’s sad, is that adhering to MWI QM means no more time travel stories. Who cares if Trek’s traditional view of time travel doesn’t adhere to modern scientific theory? Time travel is good clean fun. Audiences enjoy it and it makes for good dramatic story telling. It’s escapism at its best and is particularly relevant to Sci-Fi. There’s great irony that it is used to good effect on LOST yet disdained in Trek. The most successful films in the series involved time travel: TVH & FC. ST09 doesn’t really count since the time travel is not the point of the film – there’s no fixing the polluted timeline. Some of the most popular episodes in the franchise are time travel related. It’s because it’s a good dramatic device which has the same effect for the audience as the enormously successful Christmas classic “It’s A Wonderful Life”. Sadly, if Orci had his way there would have been no Jimmy Stewart classic, as Jimmy could have never gone back to his own universe to learn his lesson after visiting the Mirror Universe.

205. Son of a Maui Portagee - August 2, 2009

#204. “The reality is that as long as Abrams makes money at the box office, the current producers could go on for 10-15 years.” – RD

Well, I’d say the 2Q definitely shows this ST did not and will not make a profit at the BO. I’d say that awaits your projected $400 million in disc sales. And the only other thing to note is that Spyglass isn’t going to see any money until long after Paramount recoups all its “expenses” – not to mention CBS if you are right about the profit participation.

And as Orci takes on more and more projects, e.g. LICENSE TO STEAL, chances are his involvement in ST:SS’s actual writing will diminish. It will be interesting to see if he makes it to the final draft.

206. Kenz - January 2, 2010

Am I the only one who wants to see Spock and Uhura’s relationship develop even more? I want them to get married or something. A pointy eared baby would be fricking sweet.

Sock FTW!

207. Kenz - January 2, 2010

SPOCK lol sorry for that

208. Larry - June 25, 2010

Since they bridged the existing ST universe, what about that ship featured in Voyager that sits outside the timeline to correct any incursions? Might be good to see them play a role and have old ST vs. new ST. Could also have some good guest appearances.

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