Orci and Kurtzman Give An Update On Star Trek Sequel August 7, 2009
by TrekMovie.com Staff , Filed under: Orci/Kurtzman, Star Trek sequel (2012) , trackback
Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman were at the Television Critics Association annual Fall preview event this week to talk about Fringe, but of course the Star Trek sequel came up to. In a new brief interview, the pair gave an update on where they are at with the next Star Trek, details below.
Next Trek still in research phase
IGN talked to Star Trek co-writer Robert Orci about the sequel at the TCA event in LA this week, and it seems that there has not bee a lot of movement since Comic Con a couple of weeks ago, where Orci talked about how there has only been one fifteen minute meeting about the sequel with the Supreme Court (Abrams, Orci, Kurtzman, Lindelof, Burk), but he did add that Khan did not come up in that conversation.
Orci noted the current progress:
We’re still in the re-reading and taking it all in phase before we actually sit down and start designing [the film].
With Orci’s writing partner Kurtzman adding:
We have to comb through everything and make sure that we leave no stone unturned because that was the approach that I think we were looking for on the first movie.
Regarding linking the next two films, Orci stated it was just an idea floated and they aren’t leaning any way yet. The pair did confirm that the phrase "he’s dead, Jim" will likely appear, and that Greg Grunberg is pushing for Mudd (something he first talked about in an interview with TrekMovie).
For more read the full IGN story.
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Comments»
Interesting
Thank god they are not discussingKhan
The new movie has to be original and unique, a story thatonly Star Trek can do.
However are these writers able to do that and make it mainstream?
Mudd would be interesting but I want them to do exploring.
I could get into a Klingon story if it was fresh and interesting. I dont want a Khan story at all, or another Romulan plot. I hope they keep some surprises to themselves for a change, too, rather than spill everything before the movie is even shot.
I would again like to push for something akin to “Errand of Mercy” crossed with “A Private Little War.” There’s opportunity for space and land-based action plus weighty Prime Directive conundrums (conundra?).
another Romulan plot ? nemsis does not count that was a clone plot , so there has been only one romulan plot and far too many klingon ones, but i dont really care once they dont do Khan .
As much as I’d like to see Khan, I think that’s going back a little too deeply into the well – RM delivered the goods for posterity in ST:II. That role should be retired, like a Hall of Famer’s uniform number. Now Harry Mudd, on the other hand, is a character that could really be explored (exploited?) in depth. A consummate shyster, blowhard, comic relief, and all-around pain in the ass for Kirk. He’s a guy who could start an interstellar war just by skipping out on a bar tab. LOL
I’m saying not another Romulan plot meaning we just had one, so we could wait awhile for another. And I would sarcastically say that clone or not, Nemesis was a Romulan Empire vs. Earth story.
I’m hoping for a Star Trek / Austin Powers tie in, where Doctor Evil is thawed out out of cryogenics and holds Earth to ransom with a giant death ray device while demanding they pay him One…Million…Credits……
Yes, Mudd would be cool. I still think I’d like the film to be an anthology story, perhaps with Mudd as a throughline. Story structure-wise, it would be Master and Commander in space.
I would like to see the film take up the thread of the homeless Vulcans on a journey to their new colony world, begin to get them settled, and then anything can happen. I hate it when threads are picked up and then dropped….(Ba’ku, anyone?)
Okay, okay…we all would rather forget the Ba’ku…but I hope you get my point.
We’ve got a whole major civilization trying to get their act together again…I just hope our favorite writers revisit ‘em. Who knows, maybe the Vulcans can open up and show some real emotion after this tragedy…would be traumatic for them as a race, I would bet.
Then again….let’s see somebody get BLOWED UP REAL GOOD!
Mudd??? Please no. Not that I was a big TOS fan, but Mudd interested me 0%. I hate to say this but I’d almost rather them do Khan, at least he’s interesting. Still, neither would be best. I dont care if they make someone new, go with the Klingon’s, what ever, I just dont think redoing TOS stuff is a good approach.
Some people have said this before, and I think the Andorian idea (and it doesn’t have to be some ‘evil Andorian’ they have to defeat, just have them involved somehow) would be interesting, especially politically. As the Vulcan people have to rebuild, the power has shifted dramatically. Definitely something to think about there.
Mudd would be fun, but as someone pointed out a few months ago, it would work best, again, if he was ‘involved’, but not the central focus of the story.
And please, Lord, kill that thing that was hanging out with Scotty that looked like something left over from Lost In Space.
I think the next Star Trek Movie should be about how the Vulcans are progressing in there new home and also how it could tie in with the rest of the series also do an origan story with the Borg as well
re: Greg Grunberg is pushing for Mudd
i think they should be careful with their casting… we don’t want Trek “2′ to be a Heroes reunion special.
15: No, it will be. 110%. Clearly. You’re right on the money.
I just hope they write a good sequel
Transformers 2 is not a good omen for these writers.
I would love the Romulans to be done properly but its best not to do Romulans after being in 2 films in a row.
I dont have as much faith in these writers as everyone does especially after the pile of crap which was Transformers 2.
But if they do a unique story line and don’t rehash a classic episode or movie then they willlprove me wrong. But the problem I see is to make it mainstream it is probably going to go the Star Wars route morethan Star Trek.
This doesn’t sound encouraging to me. I know its only been a 15 minute talk, but to me it sounds like they have no clue in what direction to take the next movie in, and therefore no story idea yet.
The Romulans were more important and interesting during TOS than the Klingons.
It would be natural to deal with the aftermath of the Nero affair in the new movie: The Federation would blame it on the Romulans, who have no idea where Nero came from.
So, conflict is guaranteed. Bonus: this would make one or two scenes with Spock Prime possible – he’s the leading expert on Romulans (in TNG he has lived among them for decades; in ST09 backstory he had become ambassador to Romulus). But the only people who would know this are nu!Spock and Kirk!
# 10
Mudd as throughline – good idea
#14
We should leave the Borg in the Delta Quadrant and the future – I can’t think of any story with them that hasn’t already been told.
Trek 2011 should be a massive Klingon story which blows the whole Ron Moore “headbutting alcoholics” depiction out of the water. They must be like real Nazis, occupying planets and murdering/imprisoning the population as they were originally envisioned in “Errand of Mercy,”
how about the andorans deciding to prove they are better then the vulcans by offering them a new homeworld and the protection of the andoran empire.
naturally the vulcans will think the andorians are trying to trick them somehow.
then we bring in a third party, probably romulan becouse the klingons would think it is dishonerable to make an honest andorian gesture into a plot to destroy the remaining vulcans to pit the andorians against the federation.
nothing better then a twisted plot to confuse everyone ;)
I’m a fan of new ideas and keeping the best of the original series as was done in the new movie. I’d like to see bits of original Star Trek and Orci & Kurtzman’s version come together again in the next film.
Linking all the movies together in a minor way giving small notice to ‘what went on before’ is a lot of fun. I’d like to see more of the original series events referenced and/or reworked in the next one.
And if the story requires linking the two/three movies together, that would be fine as long as the execution of the idea(s) are interesting and fun for the viewer.
Transformers 2 would have been 10 times better (and less offensive) if they had stuck to the script these guys wrote. Fight the power!
Sorry I am not down with Greg Grunberg as Mudd. He has started a campaign to play classic Trek comedic villain Harry Mudd? Harry Mudd is not a character that translates well in the 2000’s or 2010’s. Unless he becomes a little more ruthless, I feel that the character of Harry Mudd is a bit dated and belongs to the 60’s, not today. Unless he makes a BRIEF appearance I just don’t want him in a new trek movie. These new incarnations can do far better. Besides most episodes took place “a year or a month apart” so who knows what else happened to the crew.
we already have a borg origin story… ST:TMP
5. “I would again like to push for something akin to “Errand of Mercy” crossed with “A Private Little War.” There’s opportunity for space and land-based action plus weighty Prime Directive conundrums (conundra?).”
You are right on the money, ety3! I so love it when someone agrees with me. IF they want to link the next movie to the first (not that they have to. The writers accomplished their goal of assembling the crew. The galaxy is now their blank canvas), the next movie could be the Romulans doing a pre-emptive strike against decimated Federation and Klingon fleets, just in case we blamed them for Nero’s actions.
Oh, wait. I thought you said “Balance of Terror.” Well, toss that into the mix. Those were great episodes.
And along the way, have them blow up the SS Botany Bay, V’Ger, Nomad, the whale probe, the Doomday Machine and the brain parasites that are probably just about to leave Ingram B for Deneva.
21
I happened to like the honour bound Klingons.
And in TOS they were an allegory for the Russians.
Something tells me that the next movie will be tough for these writers. They do Khan they enrage fans, they do another villain out for revenge then there will be eraged fans. And unfortunately doing a unique story for Trek might not sit well with the mainstream audience.
the new film could turn into a Kobayashi Maru. Despite not being a fan of these writers I do hope they ‘change the conditions of the test’ and be able to please all groups.
21, I love your idea.
in the original series the klingons were cold war enemies, no outright war but lots of sable rattling.
so lets have a klingon federation war, or maybe bring a border empire into it, like a vietnam, klingons invade a third group and the federation fights the klingons in the third empire while trying not to go to outright open war bringing the entire sector into a bigger version of a world war.
well that is what is giving me a little more faith in these writers is the fact that the other writer and Bay re wrote it. But reading Orci and Kurtzman’s interview on Transformers 2 it seemed they were talking about a completely different film.
But these writers aren’t as good as DC Fontana, Brannon Braga, Michael Pillar, Ron Moore Ira Steven Behr etc
Harcourt Fenton Mudd would be a great character if they were able to write him well and like the casting of Star Wars an unknown would be better for the movie.
As for the Borg, with the risk of mucking up canon at a minimum now, it could be feasible but once again the writing makes or breaks the film.
Personally I would like to see a return to the more traditional Roddenberry principles of the original series as I found the movie to be little more than an action movie in a Star Trek uniform. Saying that though I will admit I enjoyed the movie but it wasn’t Star Trek as I remember it.
How about getting back to the roots of the show, which was exploration of the galaxy. There have to be other races, entities, besides Klingons, Romulans, etc. and great NEW stories with the crew. Harry Mudd wouldn’t be my first choice for a movie. A funny t.v. episode, sure, but lets cover new territory and boldly go where… you know the rest.
heres an idea, have a poll to decide the most popular episodes of the last several series then bring those writers together to colaberate on an entirly new story
31
agreed in fact I would argue that it was not pure Star Trek, it was a fun Trek movie but the ideals were toned down to fit a mainstream crown.
Star Trek however is the best film this summer and I mean that
32
I want exploration of the galaxy but unfortunately that aint what the mainstream audience will like.
I watch the mainstream films these days and I feel they really speak down to audience these days.
The mainstream audience prefers shiny things over a good plot
well not all of them but I hate the switch off your brain notion that a lot movies have even more these days.
”he’s dead jim !” … very nice !
I really want a mind-blowing Sci-Fi Adventure movie !
Regarding Khan…. they can surely save him for a 3rd or 4th movie. Or maybe have in this 2nd movie, but not such a large role. The ”thread” that would connect the 2nd and 3rd movies could be Khan himself. Who knows….
T.’.
I would love a new version of the Cage/Menagerie plotline. Then we get Gary Mitchell, Talosians, and maybe even Number One via Pike ‘flashbacks’.
T.’.
T’Pol should show up if Vulcans are mentioned in the next movie. Perhaps she would meet Kirk Pine somehow, and drop a line allowing as to how Trip didn’t die in 2161.
Except…wait. The timeline is different now, with different laws of physics in this alternate reality (read: different take on time travel). So, obviously, there was no Temporal Cold War in the Abramsverse. …Hm. So how is ENT different? Mr. Orci, Mr. Kurtzman? An answer to the question of how ENT differs in your new universe would be greatly appreciated.
#5 Errand of Mercy I think is one of the most overlooked and one of the best of ST-TOS episodes. I am with you on that, but I am afraid we will see Harry Mudd, he is a funny, sneaky character, just like bringing back Kahn would bring in the Trek fans and the general public. How about a fresh idea, not some rehash. Make the movie serious, a bit dark, like EOM, with some consequences. Like Balance of Terror, another of my fav’s. No, please no tribbles, other than maybe one laying on a desk somewhere. Plus it would be nice now that we have been introduced to the characters, for the second movie to have a hook, a possible small hook for the third. I only saw the movie once in IMAX, so maybe when the blu Ray comes out, I will understand the necessity for an alternative universe. I wonder if they bring back ST 11 for another small run at the theaters before the next movie. But I guess this is all wishfull thinking and not terminator 1 or Alien. Get ready for Mudd or Kahn, JJ please prove a lot if trek fans wrong.
37
no Khan period
If I want to see Khan I will watch Space Seed and TWOK. Redoing Khan will seem like these writers don’t have an original idea and therefore playing it safe and rehashing the good stuff.
Hm…I can’t stand the amount of hatred being spewed at Orci and Kurtzman over Transformers. Considering that there was hardly any time for rewrites thanks to a little thing called a Writer’s Strike, I would imagine that a good deal of blame for the down-sides of Trans2 rest entirely on Michael Bay’s shoulders. Also, Star Trek and Transformers are two entirely different things being done for entirely different audiences. Star Trek is, or at least should be, moderately intelligent writing dealing with a group of beings that should be killing each other coming together to explore, to save civilizations, and to go boldly. Transformers is, at its heart, a movie about gigantic robots blowing each other up. Transformers shouldn’t be expected to have deep storytelling, a moral center, or even a simple, sellable plot. And we got what it should’ve been. The plot was very G1-Transformer-ish, what with the plot to drain Sol in order to obtain energon, the robots were big and beat the crap out of each other, and there were plenty of explosions.
Ultimately, Star Trek and Transformers are two different franchises, so I wouldn’t expect Star Trek: Something Something to have the same gross humor that Trans2 did.
And NO MUDD!
Cardassians. I want blood thirsty, no mercy, Bajor Destroying Cardassians.
But no Kardashians.
Thats it.
I hope they don’t bother with an enemy but rather feature adventure and worthy problems to solve. Since we have a new Star Trek universe thanks to Orci et al, Let’s go see it.
Sincerely,
C.S. Lewis
Ugh, Mudd was so annoying! I can’t believe they would seriosly think of him as a big part of the movie.
As a cameo I wouldn’t mind him.
As for sequel not started yet -come on the 1st movie is still in the theaters. And it’s good that the writers will have time to think, to soak up old TOS and let it all sink in. There’s no hurry.
I would love a follow-up story on Romulans and Vulcans, how they would deal with Nero fall-out.
But I realized that the story I wanted was already there: ST-6, The Undiscovered Country. There we also have Federation enemies coming around after natural disaster…
Still, they started so much in ST-11 it would be a shame to drop all those threads.
Bardem as Khan!
I want to see him with that crazy haircut from NCFOM again!
I want to see Chris Pine shout, “KHHHAAAAAAAANNNN!!!!”
How surprising they would come up with Mudd for a sequel to the Star Wars overhauled Trek. Lando Calrissian anyone? Probably Abram’s idea.
I think Mudd is an Interesting Idea! as a side or Main Character he would be interesting! I also hope that they put Nurse Chapel on screen and have Scotty do a little more Miracle working! Yea having And Andorians and Klingon’s in the mix will liven things up but we also have to remember this story has to sell well to mainstream audiences as well as us Trek fans who are growing in number because of the last film!
I’d like to see the antagonist(s) be from some of the underrepresented Trek races, like the Tholians, or a character that butts heads with Kirk over an issue (a natural disaster, bad guys about to attack, whatever). Carol Marcus or Mudd would be a good choice for the latter, but otherwise I really don’t think he would fit in the film unless he’s portrayed as darker or as big an ass as possible.
Anthony, just a suggestion… your polls are far too often too limited in choices. How about (in this particular case)?
* The Art of Star Trek
* The Making of Star Trek
* Both
* Not interested in either
I am interested in both!
–
Thank God, no Khan was mentioned. I think they should do a story with the Gorn or another Romulan story (the consequences of Nero’s intrusion) or something like that!
Am off to DC for two weeks… Navy training, thank god.. I am bored to tears after nearly five months of unemployment…. otherwise I would have probably gone to the Vega con (mis-spelling intentional). LOL
Ugh…. Mudd is just annoying. I mean, it made for a nice TOS episode or two, but please let it stay there. I would MUCH rather see Khan than Mudd.
My personal favorite story line that I can think up right now is Klingons vs. Romulans. Since the Narada destroyed 42 klingon ships it kinda makes sense that the two empires would be ticked off at each other.
If they want to keep up the new universe while keeping it “public friendly,” Klingons would be the way to go. And to be honest (once you discount Enterprise [which I think most people do already]), we really haven’t had that much Klingon stuff for quite some time.
Eh, we’ll see here soon enough. I just want some REAL news about this! All we’ve had is “we’ve had one 15 minute conversation about it” for the last few times! Nothing against TrekMovie staff, it’s the writers that I’m irked at. I guess after having a good year or so with stuff constantly pouring out once the secrecy let up spoiled me….
How about this for a plot… a male version of “Elaan of Troyius?” Capt. Kirk touches his tears and becomes an obssessed concubine!
No?
Of course, I am kidding.. Sort of.
LOL
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Harry Mudd is absolutely the last character I would want to see in a Trek movie.
We get 2 hours every 2-3 years and to waste any time on Harry Mudd right now would be obscene- no matter who was cast in the role- even Jack Black, much as I love him.
It is still far too early in the reboot to ‘lighten up’. A couple more dramatically themed movies are needed before that happens.
Go classic Klingons as bad guys. If we are starting from the beginning of the franchise as far as timeline goes, we have to establish that the Klingons really are bad in this new timeline.
I wonder if when Nero came back, if that screwed up the time line of the smooth headed Klingons? Of course that all started back with Archer so maybe not.
I was surprised when I found Star Trek still playing a theater in the next town down the road. Took the kids and myself to see it one more time on the big screen before it leaves theaters for good. I believe it is only showing on a couple of hundred screens now.
I want another time travel story, this time to go farther back, restore the planet Vulcan, bring back Amanda and reverse every other bad move in alterna-Trek.
ST Supreme Court, if you’re reading this… I just saw the movie in theaters again. Please update the engine room! I don’t care if it looks a “little” less realistic, all it looked like was a real-life beer factory. Didn’t really work for me. I know it’s a little late for this but please, that’s the only real nitpick I had about this movie and I know a lot of other fans are with me
@9
Paramount present
STAR TREK Alternate Universe 2 or (STAU 2)
DR. EVIL, menacing the federation for a bizilion trizilions qatrizillions platinum gold bars………..
After he was unfrozen by the Ferengi , he create the most deadly weapon for Evil and profit …….. what can the federation do against this Mighty Alliance of EVIL ( MAE )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs&feature=related
I HATE Harvey Mudd. Please don’t go for more humor. That usually sucks in Trek.
Garth. Axanar. Klingons.
TOS has already laid out what would be a great situation to visit… we never got much on Garth’s battle at Axanar with Klingons that led to his going mad….
And, with Garth as Pike’s contemporary, it’s a great chance to have Greenwood’s disabled Pike involved again. Simply have Garth having gone off with half the fleet from the Laurentian System to engage the Klingons at Axanar…
ST (2011): Opening scene: a filmed version of the final passage in the NOVELIZATION of ST (2009): with Scotty’s experiment finally rematerializing on the transporter pad – with Admiral Archer there to greet him. Then, someone kidnaps the beagle…..
(Just kidding.) LOL!
As a subplot Spock Prime needs to get Kirk Prime out of that freaking Nexus since it exists outside of normal time.. Kirk should never have been killed. Except for ST XI I haven’t watched Trek since.
I like the terminology that Bob uses: he’s “designing” the movie, not writing it. That thought process makes sense because Star Trek is as much about grand imagery as it is about the spoken word.
Cyrano Jones > Harry Mudd
Commodore Garth of Izar & Capt. Kirk vs. the Romulans (post destruction of Vulcan)… then in the third reel… Crazed Garth of Izar vs. Kirk. Dupe the new fans into the twist that the real villain of the next movie is a Federation Officer.
Harry Mudd would also be a welcome inclusion.
I laugh when I see “I want to see a movie about them exploring”. Might be ok for a tv episode, but that statement doesn’t scream “box office triller”. Regardless if you think exploring sticks to Star Trek ideals or not, you have to think what would sell. Action sells. The latest movie proved that beyond a doubt and they are going to try to repeat that success.
A “Private Little War” story wouldn’t cut it to the general audience, which AGAIN is what the next film is pointed towards. Same goes for political stories. Haven’t we learned anything from some of the past (bad) Trek movies?
And every good movie needs a villian. Every Trek movie has had one to some degree (even Voyage Home).
I think that the new movie should at least give us an update on how the Vulcans are doing. I still have a feeling that even though they have had their numbers cut down severely, they will still hold the same amount of power in the Federation that they held before… maybe more. After all, the elders were saved and they need to make some big changes in order to save the race.
I know this probably won’t happen but they had (have) a HUGE opportunity on their hands with this Spock Prime thing. Just think about it. He knows what is SUPPOSED to happen in the universe for over the next coming 100 years!!! Could you imagine what some violent alien race outside of the Federation (Klingons and Romulans welcome) got word of his existance!?! They may try to get him; hence, starting a huge war! Maybe the Klingons and the Romulans would team up to get him! (Okay, now I’m getting carried away. ;) Star Trek has a habit of doing that to me!) But hey, it’s a decent idea!
Must contact Abrams and team immediately…
66 – Have them go exploring and then end up meeting a villain and having action scenes. No need for mind-numbing shit.
And whats with all the whining about Mudd? Has anyone on here ever watched Star Trek? Its a silly show! He fits right in! Besides, he would never be the “main villain.” He’d be like Ray Winstone in the last Indiana Jones.
Also, would you seriously prefer that cardboard engineering set from the 60s?
Something I hope to see in the next movie, I remember Spock saying in an episode that he “for one” didn’t believe in angels. I’d like to see something happen for him to say that in the next movie, and then I’d love to see something happen which would bring him to take back those words.
Sorry y’all. I don’t think this group has the chops to do a really great sci-fi “exploring” movie where an outside element throws the crew into a journey that takes our emotions (and the characters development arc) with them. So far all I’ve seen is summer popcorn plot devices that pit good vs. evil. I’d love it if they’d blow our minds with more but I just haven’t seen it. I’m crossing my fingers and hoping…but not expecting greatness either.
Hey, BobOrci — remember what Russell T Davies learned making new Doctor Who, which is the same lesson Joss Whedon learned on Buffy. Don’t listen to the fans and give them what they want. Give them what they NEED.
(They need Mudd, by the way, Grunberg is right. ;) )
Boborci, remember to tape every conversation so we can have a 10 hour making off documentary!
And to keep telling us all through the production how much fun and joy everyone is having all along without really telling us anything about it. You did it great last time (No joking. Check around, it is exactly what I asked you for the last time and what you did. I’ve been very happy all the time)
Also, I asked endessly on the first days for a HD image of everyone on the bridge as soon as possible, and it was one of the first things we received, so…
Harry Mudd was not one of my favorite characters. No Mudd please; too clownish and silly. I would prefer a more exciting story, not a farce.
Orci and Kurtzman have never written an acceptable script. I hope, this will be the first. But i don`t expect one.
if theres no Khan at all ive a feeling ‘Bontany Bay’ will probably get a nod in some capacity…..either a set up at the end a la the joker in batman begins or a throwaway line or text on a computer screen
kind of a nod to what people thought was gonna happen – like spocks death in the ‘arent you dead’ line at the start of TWOK
66 – unfortunately as Abrams made it more mainstream the ideas that I would love to see won’t happen because everything has to be dumbed down to appeal to the mainstream audience.
Which is a shame.
I know action sells but I want a unique story with that action. Do you want Star Trek film with a great story along with thhot action or a thin plot with shiny things like most other mainstream summer blockbusters?
The latter is not what Star Trek is about. What I loved about Star Trek XI was that the new actors were able to capture the essences of the original actors but I still prefer the origianls.
To me in the new movie character was stronger than plot and the plot for Trek XI was one of the thinest plots. But it was saved because of the characters and therefore my fav film this summer.
#76 sez “[...] everything has to be dumbed down to appeal to the mainstream audience.”
So folks keep saying, and yet I can point to so many high-profile, recent blockbuster films that demonstrate that this isn’t true. Quite a lot of films that achieve huge mainstream success aren’t dumbed-down … Spider-Man and Spider Man 2 weren’t dumbed-down (in many ways, Spider-Man 2 was smartened up!). The first two X-Men movies weren’t dumbed-down. The first two Shrek films weren’t dumbed-down. The Harry Potter movies are _watered_ down a bit, but they’re not _dumbed_ down (dumbledored down?) The first two Pirates of the Caribbean movies weren’t dumbed-down. Absolutely no Pixar movie EVER has been dumbed-down. Neither of the recent Batman films were dumbed-down, nor was Iron Man. These are not quiet little indie features that barely covered their production costs; they are genre movies producers sit at home wanking to pie-charts of.
Of course, quite a lot of mainstream blockbusters ARE dumbed-down, but to find one that’s dumbed-down as FAR as Trek09, you have to start paging through the catalogue of Uwe Boll or Michael Bay (and with apologies to Uwe Boll for implying a comparison).
Action = GOOD. Sexy = GOOD. Funny = GOOD. Fast-Paced = GOOD. Lack of Preachiness = GOOD. But the Stupid is prerequisite for none of those things; a movie can be all those things and still have brains, ideals, and a beating heart.
77- Also The Dark Knight is also an exception to the rule as well.
I take back what I say but it s more often than not more so these days.
77- I still enjoyed the new movie despite the fact it was dumbed down. the characters were engaging but it was far from Trek’s finest.
Granted there are a lot smarter blockbusters out there than I made out, Guess I was venting it out due to this summer having many dumbed down fims especially Transformers 2.
The Dark Knight is one the best comic book adaptations in recent years, agreed about Spider Man but dont forget the third one was clunky and clihed.
No Mudd. He’s not epic enough for the big screen.
#79: “The Dark Knight is one the best comic book adaptations in recent years, agreed about Spider Man but dont forget the third one was clunky and clihed.”
That’s why I carefuly excluded it (and sadly, many other thirds) from my list :( Sadly. But the first two show that the third one didn’t _have_ to be that way, and neither does Trek.
bob and alex have my 100% approval. i think this needs to be said to balance some of the haters out there.
Ive noticed that a lot of the comments are about the Andorians, but people seem to be forgetting that this movie doesnt take place during the Enterprise era but almost a century later, well into the time of the Federation, which Andoria is a part of. I think its safe to say that the destruction of Vulcan isnt going to cause a political shift as they are part of the greater whole that is the Federation. So they’ll be taken care of.
And Ive seen a lot of doubt on the part of the writers due to Transformers 2. Yes, Transformers 2 for me was like throwing away $8 and over 3 hours of my life that would have been better spent passed out, but I dont think its fare to blame it entirely or even mostly on the writers. It was a Michael Bay film, and I think he’s determined to ruin any film. Makes me think of that Pearl Harbor sucks song from Team America. But point is, I think had they given him a good script he would have told them to dumb it down. I just hope they make the next script a bit more Trek, get their stuff right, maybe bring in a Trek advisory.
Given ST09, I seriously doubt they can come up with something, with anything, which motivates me to watch the next movie. I give it a 10% chance that I’ll show up at the movie theater.
The next movie should be a two hour long pretentious, over-wrought and poorly defended monologue on human equality. The Enterprise should look exactly like it did in the 60s. Everyone over 40 will masturbate quietly in the theater and stain the carpets.
After the movie fails commercially, we won’t have to entertain any of these inane debates and the so called “REAL Trek fans” will have to confront the reality that they’re old, washed up and about to pass on into the great oblivion. Trek will die, as it deserves to – and some realistic, interesting, new science fiction that dares to ask tough questions while still being entertaining will replace it. Anyone remember the last good Trek show? Yeah, its too bad BSG is over.
I for one, found the last Trek movie to be fairly entertaining. I realize that on this site I’m a minority and likely considered an idiot because I can understand the concept of parallel universes. But clearly “REAL Trek Fans” don’t want Star Trek to be popular or enjoyed by people outside their exclusive club. Fine, whine and moan and scream until you scare away all the people who were drawn back to the franchise.
Please? Its so entertaining to watch.
Please no Khan or Mudd.
There are already bits in Star Trek 09 that are leaning toward spoof territory if you bring in Mudd it will become more stupid which isn’t what I want at least.
I think if Simon Pegg’s scotty is toned down a bit, the whole thing will become Star Trek Fuzz or Spock Of The Dead.
We are suppose to believe its real not wink at the camera every five minutes with jokes.
Also wasn’t it stated there were about 4 or 5 tingly moments in ST09?
I counted one, The Kelvin being destroyed and Kirk’s father saving the crew.
What else was spine tingly?
88: Yeah, there were a few spine-tingly exciting action sequences and character moments.
And the franchise becoming Hot Fuzz? I think your problem is you didn’t actually watch the new Star Trek movie. Either that you’re another pissed off old fart who can only get a boner by yelling at people on the internet.
Mudd is a terrible idea… Khan is also a terrible idea. There is no need to retread old ground here. Harry Mudd is certainly not going to be an audience draw.
Doug L.
Also… to the point of following the story of the Vulcans now that their homeless…. Vulcans suppress their emotions, but I think the destruction of their homeworld is going to warrant some serious bad ass retaliation on the Romulans!
Vulcans take on the Romulans! BIG TIME COOL ASS STORY POSSIBILITIES HERE!
Doug L.
I just watched the Transformers sequel… what a horrible jumble of noise and I liked the first one. So I hope they do a better job with the Star Trek sequel.
89: It would be cool if they could intelligently deal with the aftermath of the destruction of Vulcan. It would be a nice plot line to pick up, and they could take it many different ways. It would also make watching the whole new film series as a whole more enjoyable – to see the new continuity play out.
90: The first film was a jumble of noise that made me want to vomit. Thank goodness I didn’t have to pay to see the second one. (But why did I see at all? I don’t know. I wish I could have those hours back to watch a sunset.)
I just seen Trek 09 for the 14th time and I always catch something that i missed the first 13 times. I think the Next Movie should be an orignal with a smattering of things from the series to keep everyone happy like they did in the First Movie. Have harry Mudd in it but as a minor role but maybe a pivitol role. Maybe throw in Cyerno Jones as his Partner in crime so to speak. But the main plot should be fresh and new. Also. A bit more action of the Big E would be great and please Finish up the Engeneering section.
Great that they are not discussing Kahn.
Bad bad bad that they are discussing Harry Mudd. What a juvenile character for the series. You may as well have Ronald McDonald appear as a character too. Or how about Ja ja Binks.
85, 87
Zhi, pal, aren’t you being a bit harsh? Masturbating nerds and pissed-off farts?
I don’t think everyone hated the new Trek. Yeah, some did; some are still being cranks about it; some sorta liked it but just found it lacking in one way or another.
But even Anthony’s polls (if I remember correctly) indicate that most of us enjoyed it & saw it multiple times. Right? Yes?
Also, I have to say, I REALLY can’t stand self-pleasuring jokes. They lack imagination, and they’re just a lazy way to shock people.
In an unrelated subject, I’d meant to add:
FLYING LEG KICK!!
That’s all I want from the sequel.
forget Khan, Borg, Klingons etc – we need Balok as the main villain – the big question is can Clint Howard still play him? or will they have to get the Harry Potter guy or the hobbit guy….
No Grunberg please. I’m starting to get pretty annoyed at his whole “it’s an Abrams movie, I am for some reason owed a part in it” thing.
Also, no Mudd. Stupid character in the first place and I genuinely can’t believe how many people want to see a bumbling fat loser with a terrible stereotype nagging wife. How is he a character worth exploring in any way?
If they don’t do Khan, they definitely should not do anything with Klingons or Romulans. Talk about overdone.
I think going back to Talos IV or an exploration of the Gorns are in order with a sprinkling of Andorians and Orions.
#94: “But even Anthony’s polls (if I remember correctly) indicate that most of us enjoyed it & saw it multiple times. Right? Yes? ”
I enjoyed it and saw it twice, myself, and I’m vocally critical of it :) Still a good flick for what it was. Mind you, what it needs most is either Mike or Joel and a couple of robots.
#91: “It would be cool if they could intelligently deal with the aftermath of the destruction of Vulcan.”
It certainly would meet all of the basic needs for the sequel if they used the Vulcan recolonization effort as a jumping-off point. If they’re settling a Strange New World, and on that Strange New World there’s suddenly a threat or problem of some kind (possibly involving new life, or even a new civilization), then they could manage to pay lip-service (convincingly!) to ‘exploration’ and still have their lets-fight-the-bad-guy way. If they spun it just right, heck, I’d Boldly Go.
Vulcan aftermath sounds like a good idea. I want the Gorn in a movie.
But does Spock Prim really know what’s going to happen. The future has been changed. Still, i suppose his guesses would be better than most.
I want to see the ship go on an exploration mission. I’m kind of sick of seeing the crew of the E save the universe every movie.
judging by Bob Orcis comments about sequels in general a few reports back – ive a feeling Trek XII will be an altogether darker installement with an unresolvded ending – leading on into Trek XIII…like TWOK, Empire etc
I don’t mind elements from TOS but if you go to the trouble of rebooting the series in an all-new universe then you should do all-new stories set in that universe. We’ve already seen the original stories. How about something new?
105.
It’ll be a mix like the first, I imagine. We’ve never had any intention of REMAKING anything.
awesome. i’m glad they’re so thorough and aren’t rushing it.
^ Phew!
*wipes brow clean of sweat*
Mr. Orci, thanks for your continual presence here. If I might make a suggestion, it would be that you not feel bound to have villain in the classical sense in every film, a la Nero. I would really like to see a return to the exploration aspect of the show, with the dilemma being other things, like time or circumstance.
Thanks again.
No Khan, No Mudd. Lets do something fresh for a change.
102.
I just want to say, Mr. Orci, that I really love the typo: “Spock Prim.” I suppose he *is* rather — compared to the hot-headed new version of him (”Spock Uninhibited”).
And while I have your attention:
FLYING LEG KICK!!
20:
Doesn’t Kirk & Co. – including the Federation after the report is filed – know where the Narada came from, or better yet when? The Feds have no reason to bother the Roms.
#21 I agree. I would like to see the Klingons like in TOS, not the barbarians Vikings we got in the B & B era.
114 – agreed – best Klingons were in TOS movies (esp Trek III…)
B&B era klingons were pretty boring
mudd for the 2nd one and khan for the 3rd would be awesome. I think the 2nd should NOT focus on Mudd, tho. Have him in it, let him play the sneaky goofy loveable Mudd, and make the main villian some type of mission (STIV Voyage Home). Then make 3 alllll about Khan. Maybe introduce him or some elements of khan in the 2nd…
just my 2 cents
Why do Romulans or Klingons have ti be in it? If you look at the original series I’ll bet 90% of the episodes where about new situations and conflicts, not about Romulans and Klingons. So… boldly go where no man has gone before.
something new please, forget Klingons, Romulans and Khan, get something fresh.
Don’t drag an old enemy back to please fans that dont have an imagination.
Please no Carol Marcus infact she never meets Kirk in the new timeline & that way we don’t have to deal with Kirk having a kid ala Superman returns! I don’t want to see a vulcan update either. I’m sure they will find a new world & will be fine.
I think they need to go to the City on the Edge of Forever & send Spock prime back.
Whatever the story itself turns out to be (I’ll trust the talented writers and producers on that part), one key story element needs to be the personal journey Kirk takes.
The movie should start out where we left Kirk in the last movie, a talented but inexperienced leader given command of Starfleet’s newest and probably best ship. He should experience some serious leadership challenges, and through the course of the actual story, overcome them. So the adventure not only tells a story, but also shows Kirk’s journey to become more like Kirk-prime from the original series.
If any of the writers and producers have not read C.S. Forrester’s “Horatio Hornblower” novels, it would be a good source for inspiration. After all, Horatio Hornblower was part of Gene Roddenberry’s inspiration for Star Trek. The great thing about those stories is that they show Horatio at different levels in his career, and Horatio takes a journey to grow as a leader while overcoming the challenges presented by the story’s adventure.
68 – In that case exploring would be just a few minutes “backstory on why they are where they are”. Not what I was talking bout. Don’t see how your description, which is fine in my book, statiifies that group I was talking about… the group that wanted the next movie to explore “the exploring and not-shooting” side of Star Trek (like many of the tv episodes).
76 – Of course I would want a great story. Who wouldn’t? But you actually agreed with me when you liked the new movie – I didn’t think personally it had a weak plot at all. It had a good mix of action and emotion. But you have to think what “dumbed down” means for you as a Star Trek fan vs. general population. It might not be you, but many Star Trek fans think they need a complex plot (with less “mindless” action sequences) for a great movie.
As much as I hate to say it, Khan is a possibility because even non Trek fans know who Khan is basically (Kirk’s nemesis). Either the writers have to create another villian to be Kirk’s nemesis (which fans here will say it’s a “copy of Khan” or “copy of [fill in the blank]“) or actually have Khan “re-invented” (which fans will say… well, look what people are already saying here). People have already compared Nero to Khan for crying out loud.
So either way, it’s close to being a “damned if you/don’t” thing.
And no Harry Mudd.
All I have to add is that actions have consequences. What is the fallout from the events of the first film? That has got to be your starting point for the new movie.
For example, there should be people within Starfleet who resent Kirk for ascending to a captaincy at such a young, inexperienced age. There should be resentment toward Spock Prime for precipitating the events that led to the destruction of Vulcan. The Romulans and the Klingons are probably on the verge of all out war, with the destruction of 47 Klingon ships in the last film. Not to mention the entire rebuilding of the Vulcan civilization.
What about the toll the relationship between Spock and Uhura takes on their careers? And, yes, Uhura will probably suffer more from the perception she’s sleeping with her superior officer. Not fair, but pretty common. What about Kirk’s relationship with his mother? Will we ever see her?
There are many more things that could be incorporated into a new storyline, but you get the idea. I do give Orci and Kurtzman a lot of credit for setting up a future for these characters with so many possibilities and so many opportunities for conflict.
Mudd & Kor!
This should be a no brainer; Mudd’s hucksterism leads to a declaration of war from the Klingons & the Enterprise is assigned to prevent the war before it starts.
It writes itself. It’s a new story told with classic characters from the series, just like Trek ‘09.
Orci & Kurtzman, there you go, now sit down & start writing.
Let’s save Khan for part 3, with a rewrite of Space Seed.
Again, I don’t think there’s any point in discussing specific story ideas, plots, characters… I believe what matters is the stuff that makes Star Trek STAR TREK. Things like Kirk’s nature as an explorer, his motivation to investigate the unknown, and his self-sacrificing command; Spock’s turmoil, being of two different worlds, the struggle to control his emotions; and so forth. It doesn’t matter whether Kirk’s adversary is Khan, Mudd, Kor, or Mr. Clean if Kirk doesn’t possess the qualities that make the character a hero, a man to be admired and respected. Same with Spock. When I was a youngster back in ‘66 – ‘68, the things that got me about Star Trek were the characters more than anything else. Sure, there were some great stories, but those stories would have simply been an idea without the characters, and the chemistry between them.
I feel the new cast has some great chemistry together, and they’ve done a terrific job of re-capturing the famous starship crew. THEY are what will make the film, not this villain or that villain, this plot idea or that plot idea.
Just my opinion, of course…
Mudd is a narrative dead end. At best he’s a peddler of trite scifi humor. I really want exploration, a new civilization and Klingons.
The redux of Khan only makes sense if the Enterprise doesn’t pick up the Botany Bay and Khan’s able to amass more power [ships, a planet] in the 23rd Century than he did in the prime timeline.
122 – I kind of get the feeling that no one is particularly fond of the Uhura/Spock thing. I was okay with the idea at first but it doesn’t really add to the plot (unless she gets pregnant in the next one or something ridiculous). I always saw it as Kirk and Bones who helped with his emotional problems, which I think made them closer and was a big part of their friendship(which needs to start taking form). I could almost equate the Uhura/Spock relationship as a hinderance.
121 – “As much as I hate to say it, Khan is a possibility because even non Trek fans know who Khan is basically (Kirk’s nemesis). Either the writers have to create another villian to be Kirk’s nemesis (which fans here will say it’s a “copy of Khan” or “copy of [fill in the blank]“) or actually have Khan “re-invented” (which fans will say… well, look what people are already saying here). People have already compared Nero to Khan for crying out loud.”
good point…if they go with another Kirk nemesis villian it may as well be Khan…
i think Mr Average Joe non Trek fan Friday/Saturday Night moviegoer knows about Khan, the borg, the klingons and giant killer whale probes (and now the romulans and nero)
126- We’re going to have to agree to disagree. I think the Spock/Uhura thing made the movie more attractive to women and contributed to some of the film’s success. Uhura is not just a placeholder for the male characters. She needs to be given her own challenges, her own problems to resolve. And anyway, the point is moot. It’s already happened and has to be dealt with in some way or another.
128 – I 110% agree with you that Uhura needs a more important role. I just think that putting her in a relationship with someone in command was a cop-out way of going about it. I absolutely loved that they showed us that she is a strong, powerful woman who is the best in her field. Not just put there so there would be a woman on the Bridge. :)
“#21 I agree. I would like to see the Klingons like in TOS, not the barbarians Vikings we got in the B & B era.”
HEY! >:-(
j/k
can there be a crossover between the prime uiverse and this new alternate universe?
The idea of the Borg origin interests me. I’d like to see something like the story describes the origin of a particularly nasty species but the crew is oblivious to its threat, although the audience understands it. Then in the 3rd film, the crew must deal with it. Perhaps it is responsible for Pike’s death or that of another character that is re-introduced in STXII.
131
what you think of crossover between the two universes?
THOLIANS! I want Tholians to be the major part in the next movie! :D
134
How about THOLIANS + DOOMSDAY MACHINE? Imagine the Enterprise stumbling onto the Tholians attempting to construct their anti-phasic web around a Doomsday Machine…it’s been decimating their solar system and so now we have a wobbly Federation/Tholian alliance to help destroy it.
They succeed, of course, and send the Doomsday Machine into…MIRROR UNIVERSE for the next film :D
I’d see that movie.
species 8472…
Maybe the voth or how about the Kazon, and some how tie in Kivas Fajo???
Perhaps we could get all of the lamest cultures and protagonists to appear in the new film next to mudd.
#26. I’ve always wondered why V’ger evolved so fast to the ultimate of its being compared to The Collective. What factor is stunting their “growth”? I mean, if they adapt so fast why haven’t they “adapted” beyond the need to assimilate since they seem to have been around for as least as long?
Heck, even the Nomad/Tanru collective of old seems vastly superior in weapons and power to anything the Borg has been represented to have “adapted” and/or assimilated.
obviously no one likes the crossover idea. LOL
#133. If Lazarus could connect two incompatible universes and crossover, I don’t see any reason the writers could come up with to preclude it.
This is far outside my science expertise but if I understand the popularizations correctly, it doesn’t matter what causes the creation of the new universe, i.e. whether by time travel or not, the laws of physics can vary subtly in the birth? And thus in one universe time travel can appear to behave as was explained in prime Trek while in the other it follows MWI?All that is needed is a traversable Einstein-Rosen bridge to cross over and that the alternate universe allows matter to exist in a stable form.
In fact, one could argue that a subtly-changed universe is precisely the one the new movie went with.
Where’s the love for Garth?? The classic title from TOS of “Whom Gods Destroy”…. so much promise!
There’s *so* much unexplored potential in a Garth storyline. It would be a shame not to utilize it. A “fallen hero” tale could be an excellent plot vehicle to test the new Enterprise crew and please the audience (old and new) with an exciting story and situations that are true to the Star Trek universe.
They need to get Kirk out of the nexus. Other than that there are so many possibilities for story lines.
Enough of the Transformers 2 bashing!
Both Orci and Kurtzman worked under a DIFFERENT process to deliver that script. Yes, their names are attached. However, Michael Bay had heavy input into what he wanted. Both men delivered.
As an action film, it’s fun. For a Shakespearean epic, it was lacking.
We saw the magic within “Star Trek” (2009). Give them a chance to deliver anew. I think they’re more in their natural element with the TOS universe.
And guys (esp. Roberto) let’s start seeing more nods towards Joseph Campbell, please. This is modern day mythology after all. :-)
BOB.
No, forget the space exploration / cerebral stuff. That would be a one way ticket to box office disaster. People want 2 hrs of EPIC space war and great characters not supreme being crap (see: TMP/STV/Sunshine etc etc…all flops).
Oh, Harry Mudd, if he was in it for about 30 seconds. God how cheesy is that character in 2010/2011. Lets not turn the new series in a comical farce.
Hard sci-fi just DOES NOT SELL. I really don’t feel like sitting through a Star Trek version of 2001/Solaris/Rendezvous with Rama and neither would 99.9999% of the general population. It would end up very dull and a huge box office flop and would once again bury Star Trek.
Gives us a huge, HUGE Klingon war movie. Maybe an awesome Hoth style land battle, a space batle that blows away all Star Wars films. Make it EPIC, massive and take to George Lucas proportions.
#144: “Lets not turn the new series in a comical farce.”
Given “Kirk’s” inflatable hands, “Scotty’s” ride through the brewery pipes, and everything about Nero, I think it’s a bit late for warnings along those lines.
#97. RenderedToast wrote: “Stupid character in the first place and I genuinely can’t believe how many people want to see a bumbling fat loser with a terrible stereotype nagging wife.
Anyone who views Mudd this way only remembers the character from “I, Mudd”. To all of those people, you NEED to go back and watch “Mudd’s Women”. Mudd is a ruthless, ethics-less, con-artist in the worst sense of the word. There are moments in Mudd’s Women where I would put nothing beneath this man. He is a dark soulless individual for whom life is meaningless.
Sadly, like the assumption a Khan remake would be of the 1982 TWOK film and not the TOS episode Space Seed, the last produced installment seems to be what sticks in the mind.
I’m not saying I would like to see a Lando-Calrissian-inspired-Harry-Mudd-sequel-story, just that the way Mudd was originally conceived was as a far darker and complex character than often given credit for.
Lando-inspired, really? Lando never seemed that complex to me – kind of a riff on Solo. But I agree with the view of Mudd in Mudd’s women. He was a dangerous guy. Other Trek “villains” — Q, the Borg, the Klingons started out similarly and became kind of harmless and silly ultimately, often due to over-explanation.
Even with the death of Vulcan, there’s still sort of that sequel-itus thing… where you kind of know everything will ultimately be all right because it has to be. I was thinking this while watching GI Joe (for free) and Storm Shadow apparently dies (sorry) – my thought was “okay, how will they bring him back for the sequel.”
But maybe it doesn’t have to be. The Dark Knight has been mentioned — and it was a great example of knowing the general fate of the characters, sort of, and yet having no idea of how it will play out (at least for me).
I still wonder about the Master and Commander nature thing and was trying to think of good sci fi where there wasn’t a villain, even Silent Running sort of had one. Did Moon? Maybe the company? And Sunshine was kind of ruined by having a villain.
It’s funny, but the much maligned TMP was actually a pretty smart concept — even though the execution wasn’t perfect. It generated way more suspense and character drama then it could have.
BOB
Please do something unique to Star Trek
#147: “I still wonder about the Master and Commander nature thing and was trying to think of good sci fi where there wasn’t a villain, even Silent Running sort of had one. Did Moon? Maybe the company? And Sunshine was kind of ruined by having a villain.”
I’d say that the vast majority of good sci-fi is villain-less. But I make a sharp distinction between antagonists, generally, challenges and obstacles, more broadly, and _villains_ specifically.
A villain exists only to be _defeated._ He isn’t a rival to be competed with, a foil to play against, an alternate viewpoint to argue against, a mistake to be rectified or a problem to be solved … he’s a Bad Guy who does Bad Guy Stuff for (usually paper-thin or even insane) Bad Guy Reasons, and the way to deal with him is to Defeat him (or her, or it, or they, etc).
The real world has no villains; never has, never will. Real people – even very destructive, vile, powerful, selfish and cruel people – are always _more_ than that. Villains are a pulp contrivance that can only survive suspended in a solution of brightly-colored simplicity. In the real world (or in substantive drama, even a good action movie) they’d just evaporate from lack of observable causality, or topple forward revealing themselves to be cardboard standees.
I think a good _recent_ example of villain-less sci-fi that did just dandy at the mainstream box office is Wall-E, which was about a problem (a problem born in innocence) to be solved, not a villain to be defeated. Even the autopilot, while it served the narrative function of an _opponent_ when the time came, was just a particularly dark facet of that original innocence, that original mistake … doing what it had been instructed to do in a time when those instructions had become dangerously irrelevant to humanity’s needs.
Mind you, I’m not suggesting that the Star Trek film series has to break its cheap villain habit only to replace it with a “more well-thought-out and substantive opponent” habit … that’d be a step up, sure, but a missed opportunity. There are lots of challenges and dangers worth facing that aren’t focused in an opponent (one of the more successful Star Trek film examples was Star Trek IV, where the planet was being wrecked by – as with Wall-E – the innocent repercussions of man’s own missteps; the Whale Probe showed no signs of malevolence at all, let alone villainy; it just didn’t know its own strength and missed hearing from its pen pals). :)
Re: 143 – I’m not bashing. I’m stating my critical opinion. Transformers 2 was terrible. The first one was much better. That’s just my opinion. GI Joe is better summer popcorn fair. Transformers 2 was saddled with overly contrived exposition, crude ethnic stereotypes, and vulgar sexual slapstick (a little Transformer humping Megan Fox’s leg–come on, really?) and you can’t blame all that on the director. Yes, he shares the blame and so does the editor, but the writers wrote it.
I hope that they do a better job with the next Star Trek movie. I mean they did a great job with Star Trek 09 (they also did a great job with the first Transformers) and I hope the quality of their work doesn’t drop off.
Dear Mr Orci/Kurtzman,
Rather than being sucked into having to resurrect another original series character to please those stuck in a time warp…. how about something toally new for a nice change?
Off the top of my head, how’s about not letting the story thread regarding Vulcan be left hanging… how’s about setting up a story about them searching for New Vulcan, and a break away contingent starts encouraging some Vulcans to abandon the ways of Surak and embrace emotion…
Meanwhile in space another solar system is discovered (accessable through some gadget discovered in some ancient Lovecroft-ian ruins somewhere…) which appears to be an exact duplicate of our own, except all the planets (that contained life) are strangely devoid of it… including a duplicate of Vulcan. The splinter Vulcan group holds hostage the Federation group guarding this ‘portal’ and settle on Vulcan.
But all on Vulcan is not as it seems……
Well it’s a start hahaha! I’d much rather see something like this than some character yet AGAIN from a past episode or movie. Please NO Harry Mudd or Khan. Surely there’s more than enough NEW ideas which can be mined. I’m sick of Hollywood in general just remaking everything at the moment, and generally lacking any original ideas.
Lets see what’s out there with this new movie.
Pretty please with tribbles on :p
I, Mugsy.
Klling off Uhura, Chekov or Sulu would be refreshing.
The new film is going to require a “bad guy” or some sort of adversary in order to get butts in the theater seats. Besides Klingons and Romulans, Trek lore (TOS) is already stoked with unexplored avenues of such.
(Hint: Garth of Izar)
I have nothing against a Klingon war story, but please, no Khan or Harry Mudd! – At least not yet.
94: Get your hand out of your pants, and pay attention.
I’m really not sure about most of these “suggestions” people are tossing out for a sequel. I know Mr. Orci, in particular, is sifting through all of this (in order to get a sense of what the fans are thinking), but I imagine he’s shaking his head in bewilderment…
…. ok, let’s take something out of all 79 episodes of TOS and squeeze it all into the sequel…
This is utter nonsense, IMO. There is absolutely NO NEED whatsoever to bring anything of TOS (or any Trek series OR film) to this new film series (other than the fundamentals of Star Trek). What is the point in that, really? We’ve already seen Mudd, Doomsday, Khan, Marcus, and on and on and on and on and…. Are some fans completely incapable of envisioning something new, untried, never-before-seen, and only capable of envisioning the return of this character, that character, this story idea, or that, etc.??? Whatever happened to “young minds, fresh ideas — be tolerant?”
If we see Klingons, for example, in the next film, that is fine, since Klingons are part of the Trek fundamentals. But to have to bring back Kor or Kang or Koloth, specifically, is simply not unique. I believe this is the sort of mentality that sits around a table in Hollywood and says, “I’ve got a great idea!!!! Let’s do a remake of ‘Starsky and Hutch!!! And to make it new, let’s make it a comedy!!!” We all know how history will remember that decision…
Let’s have some vision, some imagination, and let go of the past…
Exploration is what we need in the next movie.
Perhaps exploring the galaxy for the new Vulcan home-world?
And the kilgons/romulans/new bad guys through a monkey-wrench into the works.
And make certain Pike is involved!
How about if a young Khan is discovered on this exploration for a new Vulcan home world? It would explain them finding him ca. 10 years earlier.
I can’t imagine a new Star Trek without Khan. He’s as important as the good guys, and the time line would “need” to bring Kirk, Khan, and Spock together. It’s their last best destiny.
P Technobabble
In some ways, including a previously known character is a tribute to “Star Trek’s” ability to create memorable characters for a great show. Your reasoning even begs the question ‘why have Kirk and Spock?’ We’ve seen them already, after all. The reason is they are wonderful characters with existing depth of back-story who become more than the some of their parts when they are together.
I’d love to see Kang or Kor, Chapel, Rand, Khan, Gary Mitchell (though McCoy has already replaced him in ST09) or Garth of Izar. All memorable characters which are as much part of Trek’s “fabric” as any we’ve seen in the new film.
We don’t need to visit previously-used storylines in anything other than reference, but my opinion is to use the rich tapestry of characters if it enriches the story. Khan obviously implies a certain storyline, or does he? Anything is possible.
how about harry mudd finding botany bay and selling him a load of tribbles which he uses to throw at kirk
I have a question:
Couldn’t Spock Prime just give the alternate Universe all his futur knowledge. Like star maps and technology. That way, he could form a Super Federation and have the whole galaxy.
LOL. Just joking, but its true.
And to all who want new villans or new exploration, have you forgotten that the Federation of Kirk’s time was smaller then that of future Prime Spocks?
Everything NEW to them, is OLD to us. Just a thought.
#147. Jack wrote: Lando-inspired, really? Lando never seemed that complex to me – kind of a riff on Solo.
Sorry, this was a recall of my earlier post #47, where I sarcastically remarked that the concept of a self-serving con-artist would be a consideration for the Star Wars re-vamped Trek franchise. If Abrams continues with his Wars inspired reboot, the sequel must involve a not-to-be-trusted, swashbuckling con-artist, who sells out Kirk while lying to his face the whole time, no?
Considering that Kirk is a riff on Solo, too, I can see a Young Guns sort of approach with Mudd as a younger more dangerous profiteer.
But you are right, originally, Lando took Solo’s place while he was in suspended animation. Then they sort of ran out of things to do with him in Return of the Jedi. Solo wasn’t exactly the most forthright of individuals either, until he finally found his conscience in Leia. which is why this new Kirk is much more closely related to him than the original.
144- You want Epic space battles? Haven’t we seen enough of that? This is not Star Wars. Star Trek has way more range in story telling then sticking to blowing up ships all the time.
can we have the nxt star trek film in 3D
how good will that be – star trek at the imax in 3D
that will take trek to the next level!!!!!!
They would have to do Khan Farther down the line then the second movie. After all they short circuited the universe, Captain Pike never led the Enterprise on a 5 to 10 year tour of duty. In Prime Universe Captain Kirk was on his first 5 year mission when he found Khan. I’m not sure how much time he spent as a Lieutenant in the Farragut. I’m sure someone more knowledgeable could tell us how many years from Ensigns Kirk’s Captaincy till they find Khan. Its likely to be a long wait though.
#157., I’m not sure how you could get Khan young. He was in a sleeper ship that suspended him as the adult he was when he fled. If you wake him up now he’s not going to appear age equivalent to Kirk and his mental being is going to be far more mature and battle experienced – at least when it comes to conflict within the confines of a ship with gravity (Khan’s inexperience in submarine 3 dimensional warfare being duly noted in TWoK.)
It’s too soon to introduce Khan. Kirk needs more experience under his belt before he should be ready to go head to head with him.
Now in ST:SS if you want to forward the notion that Nero’s attempt to destabilize the Federation was successful, in that, war has broken out between the three factions, you might set up a situation where Kirk’s conflict experience is accelerated so that he’d be ready to find Khan in the 3rd movie installment. But I think that would be a HUGE mistake as Kirk’s ascendancy to the captaincy was far too accelerated as is.
It is one of the most confounding things of ST09 that Spock Prime, even though he knew things were very different in this universe, just “knew” that this universe’s young Kirk was ready to be captain before the mind-meld.
I don’t know…maybe since the movies make the mind-meld the closest thing to magic Trek has, Spock Prime used the meld to let the Kirk’s mind “resonate” with whatever essence of Kirk Prime his mind retained from the numerous melds of their friendship? Maybe gave him a jump start for the captaincy?
That was another odd thing about the plot: young Spock had to arrive at their “freindship” on his own but Kirk knowing about it in advance is peachy-keen?
#165
I like your ideas – very good. But I didn’t mean to imply Khan would be younger, just that Kirk would meet him ca. 10 years earlier than in the original time line. That would make Kirk younger, not Khan.
But I also think that Kirk is a different person in this movie. His experience is different. He might be a tactical genius without much experience. I wouldn’t mind him making a few mistakes in battling Khan. Talk about learning the hard way!
In regards to Spoke Prime knowing Kirk was destined to be capatin. If I went back in time and met Mozart as a young boy, I think I’d know he was destined to be a great composer, despite the fact that he might not be at the time.
And I don’t know about your reasoning i.e. Kirk and Spock’s friendship. Spock prime told them both that they are destined to be friends.
#64
I concur. Cyrano Jones only got one shot at TOS, and Mudd, what, two or three? and he was a way more interesting character. If you gotta bring one in, give us Cyrano Jones!
#165. Son of a Maui Portagee wrote: “I’m not sure how you could get Khan young. He was in a sleeper ship that suspended him as the adult he was when he fled. If you wake him up now he’s not going to appear age equivalent to Kirk and his mental being is going to be far more mature and battle experienced”
I don’t believe canonically there is anything that suggests Khan’s age, except Ricardo Montalban who was in his 40s at the time (which doesn’t make it canon either). I doubt these guys are going to make lead actors anything but young to further entice their target audience. Part of what made the Khan/Kirk thing work was the parallels drawn between them, intentionally or not by Marla McGivers. There was a direct rivalry brought on by Kirk’s and Khan’s respective egos … whose was bigger – genetically engineered super-human, or William Shatner? LOL So this works better if they are otherwise the same men except for their backgrounds.
Sorry folks, but these movies are all young, young, young. Which actually plays extremely well in the case of Khan, much in the same way Soong’s children in Enterprise had just barely become adults when they left the net and started trying to take over the galaxy. Logically I would expect it – Khan had ruled for about 5 years before being run off, so that’s considerably more experience with direct battle confrontation than Kirk, which if you think about it makes a lot more sense than the seasoned Kirk falling victim to Khan, especially after finding out who he is.
Youth also works well with the Lando Calrissian approach to Harry Mudd, similar to many ways to a character Billy Campbell played in TNG. The only way Khan would be in his 30s or older is if he were played by a star name for box office, like
What about Trelane? He was a Q-like Being, Or what about Charlie X? Any of the original episodes could be expanded upon. Or what about the Solians from Enterprise? Or what about the Kelvins? There is a wealth of material out there for the 40+ years. You even have all the novels that were written during the TOS era. And what about Fan Fiction? Khan isn’t a bad idea, but would they be rehashing the same old stuff. RM did the best job for that role and I do not think the writing team could do it any better. They would have to change the whole story, start from the very beginning when the Enterprise came across the Botany Bay. True, the time line has changed, but has it really changed? Would those same things happen again with Kirk back in that center seat? If the writing team is going to keep the new ST fresh, they are going to have to come up with well researched material, and take from that material ideas that can be fleshed out into something new.
They did just that with the new movie, now they have to build on what they started. Revisiting the Vulcans is something that they will need to do from time to time, but not as a major idea. it can be part of it, but I would hate it if they went and had more than one story line and try to work in too much. Each story must feed into the other and make sense. The one thing that I hated about Next Gen was it’s soap opera like story lines where you had more than one story line, and they often weren’t related to the main story. Why are they dealing with this relationship which has nothing to do with what is happening? They need to focus on one story, and what happens to each of the characters that feeds into that one story. They did it beautifully with this movie, now they have to do it with the next.
KHAN? Get Kirk Prime out of the Nexus and let him tell his younger self exactly what to do about Khan. Blow the SS Botany Bay out of space! Do not pass go, do not collect $200 – just take them out!
#166.
There’s a BIG difference between knowing that a 4yo Mozart is eventually going to compose “Eine Kleine Nacht Musik” and telling him that he’s ready to compose it at the age of four. Or let’s really drive this point home: would you have swallowed it if in the opening scene of the movie at James Tiberius Kirk’s birth, if Spock Prime popped in and told Kirk’s father to let his baby boy captain the Kelvin because he’s destined to be a starship captain?
Re: Spock Prime’s friendship revelations
Spock Prime told Kirk in the cave on Delta Vega that they were friends and that he was a future version of the Spock he knew. But he also told Kirk an exaggeration that young Spock could know nothing of Spock Prime’s existence and their destined friendship. Spock Prime later explained that he told Kirk the exaggeration because young Spock had to come to trust Kirk on his own.
My point was why didn’t the same also apply to Kirk? But I suppose temporal mechanics being the headache that they are you’ve caused me to arrive at the answer on my own: Young Kirk did come to trust Spock on his own – it just was he did it with the older version, Spock Prime, first.
#171: “would you have swallowed it if in the opening scene of the movie at James Tiberius Kirk’s birth, if Spock Prime popped in and told Kirk’s father to let his baby boy captain the Kelvin because he’s destined to be a starship captain?”
Pike’s behavior wasn’t far off from this, really, and he didn’t even have the advantage of Spock Prime’s perspective — just some kind of superstitious belief in the potency of the magic Chosen One bloodline of Kirks.
Orion Synd.. period.. about time they get screentime
Hey, if we are going to pie in the sky it, I must admit ever since this film established this Kirk has driving skills, I’ve been curious whether they’d take them to the planets with autos to throw in a Kirk car chase?
Let’s see there was Iotia, Zeon, and what was that planet in BREAD AND CIRCUSES?
Iotia would be a good excuse to get Mira Sorvino into a Trek movie.
And a visit to Iotia would be consistent with my contention that a rational Starfleet would only assign this captain and his crew milk runs until they proved they could consistently work together as a cohesive unit, i.e. that the Nero victory wasn’t just some sort of fluke.
Of course, if The (alternate) Federation finds Spock Prime a valuable asset they may allow him to influence Enterprise’s assignments. I wonder which assignments in the prime universe would Spock have ranked as the most important for the ship and its crew?
I hope that science is part of that research. Those blackholes and white holes in the 2009 movie seemed to ignore the scientific rules that the other shows and movies tried to respect. There was also the atmospheric entry of Vulcan by the heroes where science is ignored, our heroes should have burned up in the atmosphere. I hope they consult some science buff this time around. Revisting established characters is one thing that I am not interested in, who cares about Mudd or Khan. I want to see Tholians or Gorn involved in the next story. They are alien creatures with alien motivations. I also want to see more alien solar systems not just the typical ones… 1 star, 1 planet + moon ratio. Let’s see some more interesting things out there in space amid an engaging story that explores more of the character dynamics. The current dynamic leaves a lot to be desired and it they never got the Vulcans right. Enterprise depicted Vulcans as pricks, this movie pretty much follows that route as well. I could imagine that that Vulcan children would be assholes prior to learning discipline but the prejudicial depictions of the Vulcans during the scene with Spock and the VSA Council was cringe worthy. I imagine this was only done to allow Spock to jettison all sense and rebel by joining Starfleet. Sarek is also lame in this incarnation, he comes off as not SAREK enough. If they wanted to emotionalise Spock, killing his daddy would have been the ticket. Spock having no father figure and leaning towards others, maybe mom who is human to influence his human side more so than before would have led credance to his uncharacteristic behaviour. Let’s not forget the mess they made with Uhura. She is depicted as pretty much snogging and shagging her way into a higher seat of power. That scene where the crew are being assigned by Spock was another mis-step. She came off as a do anything to get to the top kind of gal. My opinion of the movie goes lower with every time I think about these things. I am no way a die-hard Trekker or Trekkie but those issues are legitimate concerns about the future course of this relaunched universe. Especially since they went out of there way to get Nimoy to reprise his character to convince us this was still the same universe.
I think the reason the original ST worked was because it pushed boundaries. I think it would be a wasted opportunity for a new movie to rehash old ground. Forget Mudd, forget Kahn and every other old story line. This is a new crew and a new time line. It would be nice to get into the science more. The cool thing is every character (including Uhuru) is fresh and engaging. I say to let it play. It’s a big universe out there with infinite possibilities. Why limit it to things we’ve already seen? I’ve been watching ST since the original series and the most annoying thing about it is how the true believers gnash their teeth and beat their breasts about how the current film/project/whatever doesn’t mesh with the old story lines. New means new.
To me, new means having originality where everything onscreen should have been clean slate new. If the movie had that in mind what was the point in depicting established characters? That would be like making a Superman where he turned out to be a hermaphrodite or just a figment of the world’s imagination or some other silly twist. The new star trek movie made it a point to have Spock v1 go to great lengths to convince young kirk that he and young spock were to hit it off. To me, the movie is great to look at for a while but the characters are there in form only. They are blurry versions of characters who were for the most part, effective. What is left is sort of unfocused but I worry what will become of these characters. The film was also too loaded with characters here and there. Motivations were all over the place. It is silly that some people will say that people gnash their teeth over details but these details create realism and love for the character. Simply having the character with a dysfunctional personality trait is just plain lazy, I love Star Trek in all its forms, even this new one I do kind of like but I feel that it could have been better. I simply feel that the product that was presented was simply undercooked in some parts and overcooked in other areas. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement. I hope that all of this isn’t taken as an attack but rather a grade card. I do look forward to the next trek.
#176: “I think the reason the original ST worked was because it pushed boundaries.”
I absolutely agree.
“I think it would be a wasted opportunity for a new movie to rehash old ground.”
Indeed it was. Lots of recycled references, a hackneyed paper-thin plot, a cheap Khan-knockoff scenery-chewing cheeseball villain, a lack of overall moral and social conviction and even within that envelope of easy-does-it cinematic cowardice, the movie still lacked the balls to explore what few themes it raced past. Nothing but tilling the same old dry soil – soil that could be very rich indeed, with the courage and skill needed to bring it back to life.
Instead, we get same-old-same old, with a spray-painted sheen of phony newness.
lol, love the guys who say:-
“lets get into the science more..”
…please, come back to reality. 99.9% of the general public are not IT geeks/comp science nerds and are not into science and would not pay money at a cinema to watch a 2 hr movie with hard core science as the theme…
…why do you think universities have trouble getting science students??? Cause hardly anyone likes science apart from frigging geeks.
257 million did not come from a bunch of science loving ‘big bang theory” fans.
#179: “…please, come back to reality. ”
Or, more to the point, come back to Star Trek which, last I checked, is a matinee-style space-adventure featuring a force fields, rayguns, chicks with beehive hairdos and a green-blooded alien with psychic superpowers.
The only sciences that really matter in Star Trek (well, in properly courageous Star Trek) are the social sciences. It’s about people, not the snoozy mathy stuff. Whether or not the Horta could exist is never the question; the question is how the miners and the Horta interact. That’s Trek.
The biggest, bravest part of the plot of ST XI was the destruction of Vulcan. I loved the movie and saw it three times, but in all honesty, the basic plot–bad guy has to be stopped by good guys–was nothing new.
The rebirth of a culture, on the other hand, is not a plot we get to see every day. And considering the rapid changes and serious problems that our own culture must deal with, I think it’s a plot that would resonate with a lot of people, not just Star Trek fans.
Let’s see more of the struggle to rebuild Vulcan!
#26,
THANK YOU!!! I was beginning to think I was the only person who though that the Borg came from Vger! It’s like everyone I tell that to just dismisses me.
# 1 81
That’s a cool idea, but it would be an idea better explored over many episodes of a television series rather than in a movie. I don’t think that a movie would be able to allot enough time to fully explore that story. Just my opinion though…
Concerning the Movie:
Has ANYBODY mentioned that the ALL IMPORTANT Space -Time Continuim was and IS, broken by actions in the movie ?
The “Parallel Universe” is “OFF”… The movie ends O F F …
The 2 Spock’s CANNOT Meet in/at the same time ? Remember ?
Why did Kirk “happen’ to land on a planet where Spock “Happens” to be stranded ?
There is a Federation Space Station on the Planet; Why thru all of these years has Spock not gone there Himself ?
Didn’t in “Real” Trek History, Ensign Kirk lead a Landing Party from the Farragut where he didn’t shoot at the “Murderous” gasious cloud while several members of the team died. Only after he is Promoted to Captain of Enterprise does he deal with that “Being” and his personal demons.
What are all of the more than slight “Hints” that something iss wrong. ? Old Spock smiling like a Billionaire at meeting his younger self? – Using Kirk’s famous line: “Trust Your Gut?” – And giving the Vulcan hand greeting and saying with a huge grin; Good Luck” ???
Why does the movie end with Elder Spock looking very ominously over the Promotion and crowd at Kirk’s promotion ? He almost turns full fledged into our eye frames with concerned look om his face… Why is nobody mentioning these and even more “hints’ that ’something’ is VERY WRONG in the ALL Important Timeline of TIME ?
Spock nearly tells us at the very end of the show!