Orci & Kurtzman Q&A On Star Trek, DVD/Blu-ray, Writing Process & Sequel | TrekMovie.com
jump to navigation

Orci & Kurtzman Q&A On Star Trek, DVD/Blu-ray, Writing Process & Sequel October 14, 2009

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Interview,Orci/Kurtzman,Star Trek (2009 film),Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

Last week we put up a partial transcript of the Bob Orci and Alex Kurtzman Q&A from the Paramount Home Video press event promoting the upcoming Star Trek DVD & Blu-ray releases. That focused on the sequel and other projects. Today we have the rest of the Q&A, with discussions of the Star Trek movie, the DVD & Blu-ray, their writing process, and a bit more on the sequel as well.


 

Q&A WITH ROBERT ORCI AND ALEX KURTZMAN, Part 2
`

More from Bob and Alex on Star Trek sequel

Question: Now that you have Spock Prime who has actually boldly gone everywhere, is that going to be a problem with the exploration of the next film because you have a character that can say "if you go that way you will hit the Denobulans, and if you go that way…"?

Alex: No, because Spock came back into a different timeline where everything is….the circumstances on those planets could be entirely different than what Spock is aware of.

Bob: Spock may decide it is wrong to tell them everything.

Alex: Even going back in time is a violation of the prime directive for him.

Question:  Does the success of the first movie sort of embolden you guys to take more liberties as you’re coming up with ideas for the next one? Or does it put more pressure on you to go further to explore canon?

Bob: I think it is the exact same pressure as the first one. It’s like, “Great, I’m glad we had a nice victory, but now we’ve gotta do it again.” There’s the same amount of trepidation and reverence for Trek.

Alex: But, the excitement is knowing that we have everything in place. Going into the first movie, we had no idea what the actors were even going to look like. Now, knowing what the feeling was and who’s playing the parts, will definitely be helpful.

Question: In Star Trek, you hear Greg Grunberg as the stepfather, but you don’t see him. Will you see him on the DVD?

Alex: You will see the stepfather on the DVD, but not Greg. You’ll see a scene there that we ended up losing.

Bob: Greg wasn’t originally cast as that, and then he came in as the voice. There is a scene that was shot with another actor.

Question: s there room for Greg Grunberg to fit into the Star Trek sequel?

Alex: There is always room for more Grunberg. It’s whether or not he can find the time. He’s one of TV’s heroes. We’ll see how that goes. If he has the time, we’d love it.

Question: Grunberg wants to play Harry Mudd, what about that?

Bob: Maybe, he can fight it out with Jack Black.


Bob and Alex at Paramount press event
 

Bob and Alex on Star Trek movie

Question: JJ [Abrams] spoke earlier about the importance of Leonard Nimoy’s involvement in Star Trek, so I was wondering, from a writer’s point of view, how important was his involvement.

Alex: We couldn’t have made the movie without Leonard. We knew early on that so much of what was going to be required in re-imagining Star Trek, and also in staying true to everything that came before it, was going to hinge on Leonard, in a way, blessing us moving forward. And telling the audience that it is OK, you can make this transition now, I am here to help you. And we knew without him, we were never going to be able to have a movie.

Bob: We didn’t agree to do the movie until we had the idea that if we could get Leonard to agree to be in the story, that is a way to do both pleasing old fans and having him him, the soul of Star Trek, be the plot reason for the changes. So we we needed his blessing…it wasn’t until we hit upon that, that we said "now we know how to do it." So, it was pivotal for us.

Alex: Pitching the fate of Spock, to Spock, was a bit unnerving. [Bob interjects "and then your planet blows up, you like that?"] But, it was great and actually gave us the confidence. He didn’t commit right away, but he gave us the confidence to move forward, knowing that he liked the direction we were going in. So I think both creatively and in our hearts where we wanted the movie to be could not have happened without his ‘OK’

Bob: We took a big risk. We spent five months writing it, with him in it, without knowing if he would say ‘yes.’

Question: Someone sent me a letter saying that the fact that Spock had to stop the movie to explain to Kirk was some sort of break point script-wise. Do you agree with that? That you had to stop and explain to the audience, everything that has happened?

Alex: I think that we tend to be drawn towards structures that are very mysterious, for at least and hour, or hour and fifteen minutes. As an audience member, I always really like to be wondering, “What’s happening here? I don’t understand it. It’s really intriguing. Where is the punch line going to go?” But, when you incur that debt, then you owe the pay off, and the pay off is always the moment where someone comes in and says, “Okay, here’s some of the answers to the questions you’ve been asking for the last hour and fifteen minutes.” The trick with those kinds of scenes, is to make them really interesting and to make them very character driven, because what you don’t want is a scene where someone is just telling you plot. That’s really boring, and the audience tends to just check out. The ace that we had in the hole there was that we knew that it was a very emotional story for Spock to tell, because he was telling the loss of his planet and he was talking about his
responsibility in that.

Bob: And it is a mind-meld. It is not just an information dump. It is an artistic element from Star Trek.

Alex: That’s right And It’s literally a new Kirk, who doesn’t like Spock, realizing, “Oh, wait, Spock is a much broader character than I ever knew.” So we were very lucky in that case, to have so much character stuff infused in that scene

Bob: We wouldn’t change it.

Question: Can you talk about, with Star Trek, what was the first moment, whether in the writing or once you start to see it come together in the editing room or on set, where you began to feel you had it?

Bob: You get it twice. You get it once when you know you have the right story, and I think we did feel that that,  very strongly, as we were writing it. The “Ah-ha!” of having Leonard Nimoy in it was big for us. But then, you have to actually shoot it, and cast it. Can you really replace icons? What’s that going to be? Even in the middle of shooting, when you go onto a set, you’re hoping it’s looking cool and not like Saturday Night Live, or something. I think it was after we saw the first cut, probably. So, once when we wrote and once when we saw the first cut and realized, “Oh, man, these actors are great, and the production design actually looks great.” We saw it come together then.

Alex: I think that writing   was probably the most emotional experience we’ve had, in the actual writing part of it, because you are dealing with, not only these iconic characters, but the responsibility that you are suddenly bearing, of bringing them back to the world in a new way and then telling a story that is deeply deeply emotional.

Question: You are fans right?

Alex: Exactly. It’s like, take this thing from your childhood and make it someone else’s childhood. It is very daunting. That is the kind of thing where you have to tune everything out. We literally locked ourselves in a hotel room for weeks and weeks and just scene for scene, line for line. You don’t always get the luxury at the pace that we work at, to luxuriate in every dot and comma, and in the Star Trek it really was that and we really loved that.

Question: When you’re writing characters that are that well-established and on the other hand, but with Star Trek the Original Series, some of that dialog is a little iffy. How do you capture the sound of it, without having dialogue that is 60′s clunky?

Bob: We were lucky in this one when we came up with the idea, because we we knew it was going to be them young and them turning into who they are, so it prescribed a very natural arc that they don’t arrive at the people you see in the series, until the end of the movie, so it freed us up to not have to mimic them exactly, and be able to tell a growing up story.

Alex: Also, because these characters were so ingrained in our minds from childhood, they are already a live in your head, in some way. So, once you are sitting down to actually write them, you’re listening to your childhood voice, coming back up for you and that  becomes your best compass when you are writing dialogue because we all knew that there were certain key traits about all the characters that had to be represented, but the question became, “How are you going to do it in a new way?” We hadn’t cast any of the actors that we had in the movie, when we were writing the first draft, so it was very much about knowing their personalities, but then finding a way to make it fresh.

Bob: And, reading the novels helped, a lot of Star Trek novels.

Question: The opening sequence of Star Trek was very surprising. How did that evolve, and how did you approach that?

Alex: Interestingly enough, that was not the first scene of the movie that we wrote. That was the second scene of the movie, and the first scene of the movie is actually on the DVD. The first scene of the movie was the birth of Spock. We knew that the way these characters were born was going to define everything about who they would become. Knowing that Kirk was going to be a renegade, knowing that he was going to have father issues, knowing that he was going to be lost, knowing that he was going to have to come into his own as captain, prescribed a series of things that allowed us to think about, “What would create a man like that?” Rising to the challenge of, “Are you going to be as good as your father, who literally died in the service of keeping you alive? Are you going to rise to that challenge?,” was a very emotional place to begin.

Also, one of the things that we heard a lot was that women do not like sci-fi because there is no emotion. We were like totally offended by that and thought, “Well, okay, that’s bullshit. Let’s show them how wrong that is, from the word go, and then everyone will be equalized. Then, we can all go forward from there.”

Bob: I think the first kernel we had of that was that we thought, “Kirk should be born in space. He’s on his dad’s ship, and he’s in battle.” It started that he should be born in space…and not Iowa.

Question: You spoke about your childhoods. Do you have any specific memory of the first time you encountered Star Trek, as a child?

Bob: For me, it was being with my uncle and he did the kid’s version of relativity, why going faster than warp was a crazy cool concept. I just remember, that was the first time I heard the name Einstein, and I just realized there was a larger physical, scientific, magical world, and it was through family, my uncle.

Alex: The Original Series was what I knew, it already in re-runs on KTLA, when I was growing up. Then the big bang–I liked that, but I didn’t lock in, in the same way that I did when I saw Wrath of Kahn. Watching that, in the theater, and watching that Ceit Eel go in Chekov’s ear and going, "Oh my god, what is this?" And the friendship between Kirk and Spock, that was so beautifully drawn in that movie, it just touched me then and it was a huge compass in terms of what we wanted to get out of the movie.

 

Bob and Alex on Star Trek DVD and Blu-ray

Question: JJ talked about taking the opportunity [on the DVD] to sort of explore or examine some of the logical questions that even fans of Star Trek had. Was that important to you, or was there even a possibility, with Star Trek, of sort of making some of the logical leaps or logical explanations for the story on the DVD?

Bob: Yeah. As we said earlier, we tried to be open about what we’re aware of at the moment. Certainly, some of the decisions that we made, scientifically, in terms of canon, and all that are there, yeah. That’s what the whole movie is about. Is it canon or isn’t it?  And where do you fall on it, if you’re a fan? You can’t avoid that conversation.

Question: There’s a lot of deleted scenes on the Star Trek DVD, and there were even scenes deleted from the script before it was shot. What was the hardest scene for you guys to lose?

Bob: There wasn’t anything because our original script didn’t include the scenes that ended up getting cut.

Question: What about the whole Klingon thing?

Bob: We added that later. We knew it might be long, but we just went for it. So ,we were fine with exactly how it ended up.

Question: Can you talk about some of the the differences in your approach  to the Star Trek DVD and the special features on the Transformers DVD? Is there a difference in overall approach?

Alex: No, we tend to sit down and talk very loosely about the experience of making the movie. I think the differences are in the way that the movies were made, but not necessarily in the approach of the DVD extras. What’s really cool about the DVD extras is that, in both cases, they documented everything we were all doing together, from the minute that it started, to the minute the movie was released. So, tt’s pretty extensive.

Bob: We tend to try to just be as open in how we came to things as possible. It’s not just, “I remember that day.” It’s more of an interpreting of what we did.

Alex: We grew up having nothing like this at all. For example, there was one screenwriting book when we grew up. Only one! Now, there are DVDs, you can go online, and you can see everything. There is so much there. I think we feel like, “How cool is it for people to actually have the thing that we didn’t have?” So, we try and give as much to the DVD extras as we can.

 

Bob and Alex on their writing process

Question: What was the screenwriting book you grew up on?

Alex: Well, there was actually one screenwriting book that was interviews with screenwriters, and one that was just format.

Question: How did you learn your craft?

Alex: A lot of writing badly for a long time.

Bob: We met in high school in senior year and we just just wrote in every year in college. And by studying movies. We would watch a movie and write down every scene and stare at it and outline it to see what are the structure looked like on paper and you reverse-engineer from that.

Question: JJ has this great working relationship with Michael Giacchino, and I was wondering if music was a critical part of your writing process and at what stage?

Alex: It is almost the first thing, actually. I don’t have anything in my car or my iPod that isn’t a soundtrack, which is very sad, actually. It is how the ideas get dreamt up. All of Michael’s stuff is on there, along with a million other composers.

Question: How do guys work with each other? Who comes up with the ideas? Do you have roles between the two of your?

Alex: Our writing is a dialogue. It is a process of debate back and forth. I’ll be like "what if we did this, or did that?"

Bob: We sit across table from each other, both at computers, and we decide what is the right line.

Alex: We started writing pre-Internet, with both of us on the phone, and that is how we developed our voice. That back and forth became how we write.

Question: With the relationship between Spock and Kirk, does it resemble your relationship?

Alex: We were in the middle of writing the fight scene on the bridge, after the destruction of Vulcan, and realized that we were writing about ourselves.

Bob: I realized that a lot earlier.

Alex: Yeah, but Bob didn’t say anything.

Question: Which one of you is Spock and which one of you is Kirk?

Bob: I think Alex is Kirk and I’m Spock.

 

More to come
Look for more coverage on the Star Trek home video releases coming November 17th. You can pre-order your copy or copies below.

Title Blu-ray DVD
Star Trek 2009 3-disk set

3-disk set w/ replica

3-disk set w/ badges

2-disk

1-disk

 

 

Comments

1. Jeyl - October 14, 2009

“Also, one of the things that we heard a lot was that women do not like sci-fi because there is no emotion.”

Makes perfect sense since there are hardly any women at all in this movie.

2. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - October 14, 2009

Wow. What a great interview. I loved that they had Nimoy in mind and that they were praying that they could get him to be in the Movie and the way they are fans of Trek. Great job guys and heres to the next Trek.

3. CarlG - October 14, 2009

@1: You’re right, next movie they should balance things out by adding in the planet of the bimbos from “Spock’s Brain” That would even things out…

Right?

Right?

*chirping crickets*

4. sebimeyer - October 14, 2009

Awesome interview. Many thanks for that!

I can see what you say about scriptwriting. I am trying to get into radio drama writing (in Germany that’s a market that thankfully still exists) and reading interviews like this, along with commentaries (Ron More, you are a god) really helps getting the “feel” for the thing you are trying to pull off.

5. CmdrR - October 14, 2009

No real insights into what’s in the sequel. Can we assume that it’ll be action first, character second, science/social commentary… on the cutting room floor?

6. OneBuckFilms - October 14, 2009

Thanks Bob and Alex. Thanks Anthony.

Good, fun read.

7. Jeyl - October 14, 2009

@3: @1: “next movie they should balance things out by adding in the planet of the bimbos from “Spock’s Brain” That would even things out…”

It’s possible. I’m just waiting till someone brings up the tiny little fact that women can’t become Captains in the Federation.

8. skylark - October 14, 2009

Nice interview, Anthony.

Some great answers and feedback from this pair of writers. Great stuff. Now make the next one that much better !

9. somethoughts - October 14, 2009

Great interview, looking forward to the blu ray and Star Trek 2011.

More emotional scenes please; Kirk holding onto Pikes dying body as Pike whispers into Kirks ears his final words with his last breath…make us proud.

Same music from Star Trek 2009 where Pike Lectured Kirk.

Bones: He’s dead Jim.

Tears fall from Kirks face and Spock comforts his friend.

Chekov: Incoming vissles

Dramatic Music hits, exit space: 5 Warbirds decloaking and powering up weapons.

Red Alert Klaxxon sounding.

10. TD - October 14, 2009

Those guys get it.

11. Anthony Pascale - October 14, 2009

Thanks for the thanks, but although I transcribed it (which I really hate doing), I only asked a couple of the questions. This was a press conference style event with Bob and Alex in the front of a room of entertainment reporters, maybe 50 total or so.

12. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - October 14, 2009

The Scene where george Kirk makes the ultimate sacrefice and saves the lives of his crew and wife and newborn. That was a very powerfull and very emotional scene and brought tears to my eyes and my G.F who had never seen any Trek. These guys do get it and in getting the blessing of mr Nimoy himself who was with Star Trek from the very begening tells me that they have great reverence for all things Trek. Also that they read a lot of Novels also says that. The fact they feel like the next movie will be equaliy challenging is great as they will come up with the best script and story. Way to go guys. As TD says. You truly get it.

13. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - October 14, 2009

#11. Thank you Anthony for Transscriing this interview. We know you hated doing it. Thank you!!!!

14. AJ - October 14, 2009

9: somethoughts

I’ll go with it:

“More emotional scenes please; Kirk holding onto Pikes dying body as Pike whispers into Kirks ears his final words with his last breath…”I thought I told you to get off the damn bridge!” Throws up.

Same music from Star Trek 2009 where Pike Lectured Kirk.

Bones: “He just threw up on you, Jim.”

Tears fall from Kirks face and Spock comforts his friend.

Chekov: Incoming vissles

Dramatic Music hits, exit space: 5 Warbirds decloaking and powering up weapons.

Red Alert Klaxxon sounding. Kirk is still crying, now sobbing uncontrollably. Spock is now REALLY comforting him….

Oh forget it…

15. Anthony Pascale - October 14, 2009

I don’t really hate doing anything, but it is just a time suck. I need to get one of those slaves interns.

But, can you tell which questions above and in the last Q&A put up last week, are the ones I asked. And which questions I asked JJ?

16. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - October 14, 2009

#15 Anthony. I hear you on the Slaves. or Interns. Lol. I havt to be honest. I could not tell. I think you are a true professional when it comes to doing interviews and you are as good if not better then most of the so called main stream. But if I was to guess it would be the question about Mr Nimoys involement in Star Trek and how inportant it was for them as writers. That would be my guess.

17. Admiral Waugh - October 14, 2009

Something I have been wondering is: could Kirk have gotten more out of that mind meld than just a history? Did he get any sense of the bond from the past? Any memories of Spock’s death? The man he was? It would have been pretty amazing to have gotten, if not as much as Picard got from Sarek, something more emotional and relevant to the characters.

Have the writers answered this question before?

18. Daniel Q - October 14, 2009

Jack Black would be a sweet Harry Mudd!

19. CmdrR - October 14, 2009

I know it can’t be done, but I’d really like to pin Bob and Alex down on whether the next movie will aim towards the thinking part of Trek, or whether we’ll continue on with the movie tradition of, as I said, action and character. I have no problem with ST09. None. I just would like to see a nicely balanced ST11, with some thinkin’ mixed in.
Just sayin…

20. antodav - October 14, 2009

@7 WTF? Janeway?!?!

I really hope Harry Mudd isn’t in the sequel, no matter who plays him. I really am frustrated tho with the lack of information coming out about the movie. I know the DVD for the first one isn’t even out yet, but still…they’ve got to at least have some idea where they’re going by now.

If they can get Shatner into the movie without it being totally ridiculous, that would be good. If they could get some of the TNG actors/characters in there too…nah, too much to hope for. They might not even exist in this timeline, for all we know.

21. Jai1138 - October 14, 2009

As much as I love ST (09) — it’s one the best films of the year and my personal outright favorite — I wouldn’t say it’s any where near as good as the original Star Wars (follow me here) which I consider one of the best films ever made, but I think what Mr. s Orci, Kurtzman, Lindelof and Abrams have on their hands in terms of the sequel is making their The Empire Strikes Back, a film that may lack the novelty and creative high-flying genius of the first one but a chance to make something richer in theme and more developed in terms of character thus raising the dramatic (or even comedic) stakes.

I say bring on elements from the original series and films and all the spin-offs, work them in as successfully as before in the present film but don’t make them the engine the drives the car. Make it about Kirk, Spock, McCoy, etc. as you’ve reimagined them. They’re great. But, as a favor, let’s see at least one confrontation and space battle with Abrams’ styled Klingons. I’d love to hear a Giacchino Klingon theme.

22. Gene Hoyle - October 14, 2009

I think the next movie should bring in Commodore Decker. That story would be terrific!

23. somethoughts - October 14, 2009

#15

You can be like Letterman…oh wait nevermind ;)

24. somethoughts - October 14, 2009

#21

I have a feeling they will explore The Klingons and give fans some easter eggs like Khans Botany Bay floating in space, I have that Undiscovered Country intro music stuck in my head.

Would be funny to learn that young Kirk received more than we thought via the mind meld, perhaps this is part of the reason he is such a kick ass captain, he knows all the enemies/potential outcomes from spock primes alternate reality. He would know Kirk/Spock primes 5 year missions/encounters/v’ger/Khan/genesis/Klingons/whale probe/great barrier/peace with Klingons/Nexus. I think this will make for a boring story telling element, where the protagonist has access to such a god mode, boring. The alternate reality reboot is suppose to make it unpredictable so that in itself should cancel out the above notion.

To resolve the 2 spocks, there should just be a 1min explanation that after helping the Vulcans rebuild, he went back to his reality. Prime Spock is gone, he went back home, explains the younger Spock, there.

25. RD - October 14, 2009

Alex Kurtzman said: “Even going back in time is a violation of the prime directive for him.”

What part of the Prime Directive is Spock violating?

26. somethoughts - October 14, 2009

#14

Ha, nice

27. somethoughts - October 14, 2009

#25

Interfering with another alien culture.

As the right of each sentient species to live in accordance with its normal cultural evolution is considered sacred, no Star Fleet personnel may interfere with the healthy development of alien life and culture. Such interference includes the introduction of superior knowledge, strength, or technology to a world whose society is incapable of handling such advantages wisely. Star Fleet personnel may not violate this Prime Directive, even to save their lives and/or their ship unless they are acting to right an earlier violation or an accidental contamination of said culture. This directive takes precedence over any and all other considerations, and carries with it the highest moral
obligation.

28. Boborci - October 14, 2009

25. RD – October 14, 2009
Interfering with the natural development of less advanced cultures!

29. Boborci - October 14, 2009

or what 27 said!

30. somethoughts - October 14, 2009

Hi Bob! /waves

Keep rocking!

31. Shadowcat - October 14, 2009

@ 1:

I am so sick of all the stereotypes about women not liking science fiction. There are many well-written science fiction, books, movies, and televison shows like Star Trek where there is a lot of emotion. I love the characters and their relationships as well. I am not a “Twilight “fan. I don’t care for the typical romantic crap peddled to women. I have been into science fiction for many, many years and way before Star Trek was ever “cool”. I was ridiculed by my peers because I read Issac Asimov and Stanislav Lem instead of Seventeen magazine. Women in general and Black women in particular aren’t supposed to be interested in science fiction. There are a lot of female fans of science fiction franchises like Firefly, BSG, Dr. Who, Torchwood, and Stargate. I am amongst them.

I am sure there will be more female characters in ST XII. I hope they are not stereotypical.

32. somethoughts - October 14, 2009

#31

Carol Marcus played by Gwyneth Paltrow.

33. GarySeven - October 14, 2009

To: Bob Orci
From: Supervisor 194, code name Gary Seven
Dear Sir:
I am glad you guys are going to make the next film a little deeper, in line with the Trek’s history of commenting on the human condition and our society. One other request, if I may be so bold:
Kirk was great, not because he was “the one” like Neo in the Matrix, but because he was exceptionally clever and had out-of-the-box solutions to seemingly impossible problems. Think of the bluff in “Corbomite Maneuver” or how he outwits every supercomputer (Nomad, Landru, etc.), for some examples. In the 09 movie, he mostly just seems to be “destined”” to be great. Let’s see more actual examples of how Kirk is great in the next one.
Best Wishes for your Continued Success,
Supervisor 194

34. Red-Shirted Monkey - October 14, 2009

“Bob: I think Alex is Kirk and I’m Spock.”

Yeah, you almost have the hair style matched perfectly.

35. Chasco - October 14, 2009

“Also, one of the things that we heard a lot was that women do not like sci-fi because there is no emotion.”

And you heard this rubbish where, exactly, guys? Ever been anywhere near a Star Trek (or Sci Fi) convention? There are (gasp) lots of women there! Do you have the remotest idea how much fan mail all the original cast (esp Nimoy) received from women?

Oh, and please – please! – stop reading the blasted novels to gain “insights” into the characters. There are very, very few novels that actually come close to getting them right (Prime Directive is probably the best of them). GO AND WATCH SOME EPISODES!!!

36. Jai1138 - October 15, 2009

Man, I wish Bob Orci commented on my comment!

(Seriously, I am very glad he’s here. I got the chance to speak briefly with him about Trek when he was in T.O. shooting the Fringe pilot and he’s a very good, talkative guy at least in my experience.)

But I actually do wish he commented on my comment… which I think is relevant.. #21.

37. Jai1138 - October 15, 2009

I kid, I kid…

38. Cowboy Steve - October 15, 2009

Bob, I appreciate very much what you and Alex did with Star Trek. The movie was very much in keeping with the spirit of the Original Series, and I feel confident that you two will continue in that spirit in the future.

Are you accepting ideas on the script for the next movie? How can fans share thoughts or ideas for future movies?

Live long and prosper!

39. FATMAN BRUNO - October 15, 2009

QUESTION FOR BOB!!! During the writers strike JJ Abrams stated that he had a great idea for a scene in the movie but couldn’t film it because of the strike, any ideas what this scene was and if it in fact ended up being filmed anyway

40. Dom - October 15, 2009

Re: The Prime Directive

On the other hand, since Spock, Nero and co created this quantum universe just by being there, that kind of makes Spock the God of that universe! ;)

Besides, if he didn’t come forward willingly, Section 31 would probably have their wicked way with Spock! Either way, Starfleet will be well-informed!

41. Odradek - October 15, 2009

Philip Seymour Hoffman for Harry Mudd !

42. Jeyl - October 15, 2009

@20. antodav

Janeway reflects a period of Star Trek that has changed over the decades where women’s roles were much stronger and more important. The original Star Trek rarely gave women roles of authority, like there being no female captains.

Remember how Majel Barrett’s role on Star Trek changed from being the highly experienced First Officer of the Enterprise to the ship’s assistant nurse? Remember in Turnabout Intruder where Janice Lester’s character remarks how women cant become Captains in Starfleet? Or most blatantly, how the standard issue uniforms for women were very short skirts (The nurses are even worse). This was an element of that Star Trek moved on from as the years went on, but now we’re back to it in full force. Uhura is the only female character currently in the Star Trek saga and her role isn’t any better. Seeing the men go off to save the galaxy while she stays behind and does nothing is not an improvement.

43. Zebonka - October 15, 2009

Not every TOS episode was golden, in fact some of them were damned awful, but on a good day it had the best dialogue of any Star Trek. “60′s clunky” is definitely a term I can’t appreciate.

44. jsam09 - October 15, 2009

“…women do not like Sci-fi because there is no emotion”

No, Bob and Alex, if women do not like sci-fi it is because women in sci-fi are treated as props, not as interesting, intelligent characters. I read in an interview that JJ Abrams wife and several other wives liked the Star Trek script because of the strong female characters. I must have missed those characters – perhaps I blinked.

If you want more female fans, try incorporating interesting female characters (like Captain Janeway or Ripley from Alien for instance).
I am really hoping you can accomplish this in the next film with Uhura. You had a good start with her character, but then she just seemed to become arm candy for Spock. Please do better.

45. P Technobabble - October 15, 2009

Great stuff. I could listen to them all day…

46. Lore - October 15, 2009

Blu-Ray and Home Theatre buffs. The state of California is debating banning energy sucking big screen hi-def TV’s. TV manufacturers believe they can improve their products to meet California energy standards, but it may take a while. DON”T BE FOOLED! Once they have us all paying more for our low wattage electronic devices, guess what happens. Since we’re using less energy the utility companies revenue goes down. They must therefore RAISE THE RATES. Therefore, the public ends up paying more while utilities have to produce less. Progress? You be the judge.

47. Check the Circuit! - October 15, 2009

@7

Turnabout Intruder was a pretty lame script written for, what was then, a lame duck series…at a time when women’s roles in society were ABOUT to change dramatically. The idea that there was a rule banning women from the captaincy was a throwaway line to easily drive the hatred/jealousy plot by a lazy writer.

It’s one of those CANON moments that has been ignored ever since. The captain of the NX-02 was a woman…was she not? Captain of Enterprise C? Rachel Garrett. Of course there’s Voyager. Lots of other female captains seen or referenced over the years. So I doubt you’ll see any reference to the “tiny little fact” that seems to have you so upset in future Trek films.

48. Dom - October 15, 2009

Maybe M’Ress could be in the next film to rebalance the gender issue!

49. doug_skywalker - October 15, 2009

@ Jeyl-

Wow, great point brining up Turnabout Intruder, I totally forgot about that episode and the comment made by Ms. Lester.

That’s one of the many social drawbacks that ‘Star Trek’ had to contend with in the sixites. I guess that’s just the result of the time in which the show was created. Thankfully today, those standards don’t dictate the types of stores that are on television (Saving Grace, The Closer, etc.).

Maybe they could introduce Carol Marcus and maybe even baby David in the sequel as a source of drama for Kirk (after all, in TOS it was stated that McCoy set him up with a girl at the academy who Kirk almost married).

I for one would be DELIGHTED to see Admiral Pike reuinted with a Commodre ‘Number One’ (from the John Byrne comic series) and those two would play an integral part of the sequal, helping our young heroes.

But then, who could play such a part and convey the late Majet Barret Roddenberry’s poise and intelligence?

My Top Three picks for New Number One:

1) Marg Helgenberger (anyone who watches CSI knows why)
2) Holly Hunter (again, from watching other performaces, this could work)
3) Mariska Hargitay (a little young, but her strength on SVU shines)

50. Dalek - October 15, 2009

The sequel could not come soon enough.

One fan’s wishlist:

- Kirk’s shirt ripped in a fist fight and Kirk actually emerging victorious in hand-to-hand in the sequel

- Gary Mitchell Kirk’s best friend.

- Kirk using his personal terminology of “Landing party” as opposed to the 24th century “Away Team”

- Spock and Uhura relationship disintegrated. It’s still the one thing I couldn’t buy about the first film

- More McCoy and Scotty. I’d like Scotty to mellow in his humour a little. Let’s see the formidable side we saw in the original series whenever he was left in charge of the ship.

- If using Khan, let him stare at Chekov so that in 20 years time he can legitimately say “I never forget a face… Mr Chekoff”

- Bill.

- A battle scenario where Kirk is on the bridge and has to use his intelligence and an unorthodox tactical manouvre to save the day. (along the lines of what Gary Seven mentioned in post 33).

- Admiral Pike to return.

- Destroy the Enterprise (Don’t listen to Paramount) and then replace it with the 1701-A that we saw in the Motion Picture :D

Don’t know if I ever gave my review of the film, but I would have given Star Trek a solid 9 out of 10. Oh and the Shatner cameo that was leaked online in the script, was fantastic! Really well written and brought a tear to the eye!

51. Eli - October 15, 2009

Katherine Keener might make a good Number One too. Or Sandra Bullock.

52. Jeyl - October 15, 2009

@46: “The captain of the NX-02 was a woman…was she not?”

Yes, indeed. That is one element that the show Enterprise did which I have great respect for. But did this movie try to do anything different for women compared to the original series? No.

Compare Hoshi’s roll as the communication’s officer to Uhura’s role in this movie. Hoshi could translate languages and actually put the comms station to good use. Remember the episode “Minefield”? She actually translated part of the Romulan language! Uhura’s knowledge of the Romulan language, including knowing “All three dialects” and her unmatched skills as a communications officer did not serve the movie when she manned her station. All she did was be Spock’s love partner while everyone else did her work. What? You didn’t notice that it was Chekov that hailed Nero in the end?

@46: “Turnabout Intruder was a pretty lame script written for, what was then, a lame duck series / plot by a lazy writer.”

Which just so happens to have been written by the creator of Star Trek itself, Gene Roddenberry.

@46: “at a time when women’s roles in society were ABOUT to change dramatically.”

So why go back to that time when women didn’t have that much of a role?

- Kirk’s mother is written out of the story after the opening credits, and Kirk makes no mention of her at all in the story because it’s not about her, it’s about his father.
- Amanda is killed so she can be Spock’s “woman in the Fridge”, in which case Sarek is brought in to speak with Spock which results in Spock feeling all better. Not the mother, the father.
- Gaila’s role is now just for fan service since her role in the Kobayashi Maru was deleted. Also note that she also gets killed by the Narada since she appears at Kirk’s hearing, but not at his ceremony.
- A lot of the Romulan crew get lines except for the lone female crew member who’s appearance is so short that it barely makes up for one second of screen time. If you blink, you will miss her.
- There are two communication’s specific tasks that is given out while Uhura is in charge of the comms station (Informing Starfleet on Vulcan’s Destruction, Hailing the Narada), but she does neither of them.

Suffice to say, I don’t like where this new Trek is headed.

53. Dom - October 15, 2009

49. Dalek:

‘Kirk’s shirt ripped in a fist fight and Kirk actually emerging victorious in hand-to-hand in the sequel’

Definitely.

Gary Mitchell Kirk’s best friend.’

Too late now: Spock and McCoy are Kirk’s best friends.

Kirk using his personal terminology of “Landing party” as opposed to the 24th century “Away Team”

Agreed. And ‘Where No Man Has Gone Before’ rather than ‘Where No One . . .’

‘Spock and Uhura relationship disintegrated. It’s still the one thing I couldn’t buy about the first film’

Funny: watch Charlie X and it’s obviously going on there!

‘More McCoy and Scotty. I’d like Scotty to mellow in his humour a little. Let’s see the formidable side we saw in the original series whenever he was left in charge of the ship.’

Certainly. Karl urban was superb. I got a bit annoyed with all the publicity focusing on Kirk and Spock, forgetting McCoy.

‘Admiral Pike to return.’

Not so sure. I kind of want Kirk to be the numero uno boss in the next one, the way he mostly was in TOS and the movies.

‘Destroy the Enterprise (Don’t listen to Paramount) and then replace it with the 1701-A that we saw in the Motion Picture :D’

No. Destroy the Enterprise and replace it with a brewery. Free beers for all audience members!

54. Buzz Cagney - October 15, 2009

Always a pleasure reading Bob and Alex interviews. Thanks.

55. Dalek - October 15, 2009

lol Dom. Is that Budweiser?

I forgot about the “Where No One” . “Man” stood for Mankind but the politcally correct stuff crept in there.

I recall Uhura saying in The Savage Curtain, “In our century we have learnt not to be afraid of words!” I suppose the argument could be made it was Spock Prime who’s been contaminated by his exposure to the 24th C ;) But I’d like to hear at least 23rd C Kirk or Spock use the traditional classic

I wouldn’t go so far as to say Spock was Kirk’s best friend. They certainly earned each other’s respect in the first movie. But I don’t feel it went deeper than respect, with Spock open to developing a friendship. There was a key scene where Spock finally accepted Kirk as at least an equal and that was when he referred to him as “Jim” on board the jellyfish. That was the first signs of a developing friendship. There is room for Gary Mitchell to form a friendship with Kirk also, it’s not mutually exclusive :)

As for Charlie X nothing serious was happening between the two. It would have been more convincing if Uhura was chasing but Spock unrelented until he had an emotional crisis when his mother died. There’s no evidence to suggest Spock was open to any intimate relationships unless under alien influences. Lala Kalomi (sp?) was certainly someone he brushed off romantic affections at the Academy. I can buy that this would change when the timeline changed for him, but from Spock’s perspective nothing really changed until Vulcan was destroyed.

And referring to Pike, there’s usually Admirals in most Trek movies giving the big orders. Of course having him on the ship in command would be wrong. But it would be nice to have the father figure around to relish in his achievements. Might be fun to have Kirk do a very Kirk thing, and disobey orders to save the day, and have those orders be Pikes.

56. Trek Nerd Central - October 15, 2009

#31, #35.

Thank you.

I don’t know what’s more idiotic: the stereotype that claims women don’t like science fiction, or the stereotype that claims science fiction lacks emotion.

Interestingly, it’s always men who say this. I have never heard a woman make either claim.

57. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

As much as I like Jack Black, I can’t see him as Harry Mudd. Who I can see as Harry Mudd is a funny actor who can be convincing either as someone like Obadiah Stain, or yes, The Dude himself—the LITTLE Lebowski—Jeff Bridges.

Jack Black is too much of a comic actor. But Jeff Bridges is a guy who can make a serious role funny, and I think that’s what Harry Mudd calls for. Not a comic star, but a serious guy who is unintentionally funny, like Harry Mudd himself whose plans always seem to backfire on him.

58. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

@27 & 29: Well let me play Devil’s Advocate here and propose something different:

Spock was accidentally sucked into the black hole, which black hole caused the branching off of a new universe which Spock became a part of. Spock did not interfere in the past of the prime universe but JOINED the present of a branched off universe which the black hole created. For all practical purposes, Spock Prime is now a member of that new alternate universe, so what normally would have happened in his absence cannot be a factor in claiming he is violating some temporal prime directive, since his black hole caused that universe to split from his own and its future path of development cannot be the same as the future path of development of the universe he left. Only if it were HIS ORIGINAL universe which had a known future outcome which he could change would he be obligated to not do anything to change things.

In effect, Spock Prime is the father of this new universe and as such is equally as much a part of it as any other member, because without him it would not have existed, so he cannot change how the future unfolds because he is part of that future of this new universe, no matter what he does or decides to do. The future of this new universe is unwritten, so he has as much a right to act within it as any other member.

59. Dom - October 15, 2009

To be honest, there’s potential in the next movie to ignore pretty much everything in the previous film and make a pure Star Trek movie: Kirk, Spock and McCoy on the Enterprise in an adventure in deep space, far from the Federation. No Klingons, Romulans, Pike or anything else. Potentially, although we have different sets, costumes and designs from before, you could tell the giant-sized story featuring the TOS characters we’d have like to see in the 1960s but couldn’t be made then!

60. Lando - October 15, 2009

And he was the one who proposed time travel to save Earth from the whale probe, guys.

61. doug_skywalker - October 15, 2009

And it was nu-Kirk who said it was cheating…

62. Lando - October 15, 2009

Thanks for deleting my post without notice.

“Alex: Even going back in time is a violation of the prime directive for him.”

Spock has no problem with accidentally killing 6 billion Vulcans, which is basically screwing the Prime Directive’s behind, but he has moral problems with doing a time travel to undo the damage he caused? That is not logical. Not at all.

63. Dalek - October 15, 2009

#59 not to mention he always went along with Kirk when Kirk disobeyed orders. He values one thing more than being a model officer, and that’s loyalty and friendship. If Spock was nothing more than a product of Starfleet rules and regulations he wouldn’t have been much of a friend to Captain Kirk.

64. Darren - October 15, 2009

#50 “Oh and the Shatner cameo that was leaked online in the script, was fantastic! Really well written and brought a tear to the eye!”

Are you saying the script page for this was leaked online? Or just a description of the scene? I’d love to read what was written word-for-word in the actual script.

65. sean - October 15, 2009

#52

To be fair, you’re presenting a somewhat skewed view on this. Hoshi was a bland as can be character, who inexplicably lost her shirt for laughs in one episode. In fact, Enterprise relied on naked women far more than any Trek I can think of (including this new one).

And as I recall, it was Uhura’s knowledge of Klingon and Romulan that allowed her to know that Romulans had destroyed a Klingon fleet, which was in turn vital in motivating Pike to believe Vulcan was a trap. If you recall, it was the combined voices of Kirk, Uhura and Spock that convinced Pike something was afoot. She also more than held her own against Kirk’s unwanted flirtations. Just because she was in a relationship with Spock in the movie doesn’t mean she was defined by that relationship. In fact, that relationship defined the Spock character far more than Uhura.

The story was about fathers and sons, so of course there was a focus on the male leads. The reality is that the original Trek had 6 male leads and 1 female, so the cards were stacked by the origins of the story. It’s not as if they had women running around ship, screaming hysterically a la ‘War of the Worlds’. Uhura was calm and collected, regardless of the situation. And lest we forget, it was a female doctor’s calm head that saved Kirk and his mother on the Kelvin.

And while Kirk’s mother lacked much definition (after all, you can only fit so many plotlines into a 2 hour movie), Amanda was shown as a strong counterpoint to Sarek, and if anything Spock seems far more influenced by her than his father. I think you’ve really discounted some of the female performances in the film. I’m not saying it was perfect or that I wouldn’t like to see a greater role for women in the next film, I would, but Uhura certainly had more to do in 2 hours of Nu Trek than she did in nearly 79 hours of Old Trek.

66. Nelson - October 15, 2009

Great transcription of the press event!

I’d be interested in Bob and Alex explaining why they had to have Kirk’s father die and Kirk grow up the way he did. I know Nero alters his life by the destruction of the Kelvin. But why have Kirk’s past be so different? I realize it’s the catalyst for how he becomes the great leader he does, but he did that the hard way in TOS and had a father and brother and went through the ranks serving on other ships before getting the Enterprise.

I also realize, in the span of 2 hours in one movie, you had to make Kirk go from punk to Captain to establish the new film franchise. But how can anyone do that? I did like how Pike is re-imagined in this film and his pushing him into Starfleet and that Starfleet needed more captains like Kirk.

67. Jeyl - October 15, 2009

@65: “but Uhura certainly had more to do in 2 hours of Nu Trek than she did in nearly 79 hours of Old Trek.”

The classic Uhura took command of the USS Enterprise and saved the day for Kirk and crew. That’s gotta count towards something.

@65: “And as I recall, it was Uhura’s knowledge of Klingon and Romulan that allowed her to know that Romulans had destroyed a Klingon fleet, which was in turn vital in motivating Pike to believe Vulcan was a trap.”

Which accomplished what? Kirk didn’t need Uhura to convince Pike of anything other than to let him know that Vulcan was under attack. If you recall, the Enterprise had a whole minute to react before Nero open fired on the Enterprise. Of course, you might bring up the debris field, but I would also point out that the shields didn’t do anything. If you watch, fairly moderate moving debris hits the Enterprise and causes dents, with a huge saucer section ripping panels off of one of the nacelles. The shields didn’t do anything. So even if Pike wasn’t convinced that Vulcan was under attack, he still had a whole minute to call red alert, which probably would have happened automatically if the Enterprise detected the destruction of Federation Ships.

68. RD - October 15, 2009

#66 – duh! Kirk was always destined to be the captain of the Enterprise. Bob and Alex have already more than addressed this issue – the universe is trying to repair itself from the damage Nero caused. Just like Bob and Alex were always destined to resurrect Star Trek. It is simply destiny. Free-will is an illusion. In fact, there is a parallel universe somewhere in which nobody had heard of Bob or Alex (who were not even friends) and Abrams hired another writer. In that universe, that writer had so enraged obsessed fans with his hack ideas, that he and Abrams were attacked at a convention prior to making the film. But Bob and Alex (who were both separately attending) rescued Abrams (sadly it was too late for the other writer), and calmed the audience. Abrams was so impressed, when he found out the unknown duo were writers he hired them on the spot to write the new script for the mega-budget film. Bob and Alex hated each other at first but after locking themselves in a hotel room for weeks, came to be fast friends and wrote the best Trek script ever created and thus saving the franchise. See? The universe always finds a way to mend itself.

69. Captain Rickover - October 15, 2009

# 52
Interesting point of view. Never recognized that before.

# 65
“after all, you can only fit so many plotlines into a 2 hour movie”

What means, the movie was too short. I wish it was longer like LOTR, Harry Potter (at least 140+ minutes). Many things in Star Trek seemed very rushed, like the meeting between elder Spock and Kirk.

70. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

67: “Which accomplished what? Kirk didn’t need Uhura to convince Pike of anything other than to let him know that Vulcan was under attack.”

Oh, but it did get Pike to take Kirk seriously as the only person who put it all together, which quite possibly made all the difference to Pike when he promoted Kirk to First Officer in Pike’s absence, and placed him next in line to the Captain’s chair.

And everyone knows that if you put Kirk THAT close to the Captain’s chair, you might as well just get the hell out of the way completely.

71. Rick Carthew - October 15, 2009

Star Trek sequel-

To: Mr. Abrams, Orci, Kurtzman, and Lindelof
As a fan of the Star Trek franchise since 1966; having watched every incarnation of Trek on television and all of the films (and read several of the highly regarded Trek books as well). – And, following the release of Star Trek, you have all stated you would welcome and had hoped for fan feed back… I offer my following comments, for your consideration, regarding possible script elements for the highly anticipated sequel(s).

 Reconsider formulating the arc… with the “Main Threads” established in your film, merged into the next two films creating a Trilogy. (As set-up for the forth film beginning the new 5 year mission).

Thread – The destruction of Vulcan has caused an immense power-vacuum within the Federation. Not only has Earth lost it most powerful allies within the Federation… Earth /Star Fleet Command, has also lost all the natural resources and advanced technologies provided by Vulcan. This plot element alone is ripe with opportunity for you to exploit. This power-vacuum is quickly ceased and filled by the Andorians. One of their many demands, outlined at the summit at UFP Council, Paris, requires a command rank Andorian to stand on the Bridge of all Federation Star Ships. i.e. [As other fans have suggested – the addition of a new strong (sexy) female lead character to the Enterprise bridge; to be the new in-house antagonist to play off our protagonist Kirk and to be a true rival to Spock, would allow for continued conflict on the bridge and greater exploration of all our human emotions.] > Lieutenant Commander “__?__ ”, a Andorian / Human hybrid > https://market.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1648565&member > graduated second in her class to Spock from Starfleet Academy – current posting, first officer aboard the Andorian Federation Flag Ship – but she has been obsessed with a command post on the Enterprise since her construction began.
{Possible Canon – This new character could be the great grand daughter of Commander/ General Thy’lek Shran- http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Thy%27lek_Shran the grand child of his daughter Talla Shran— and her human Star Fleet officer husband?} As just one emample…

72. Jeyl - October 15, 2009

@70: “Oh, but it did get Pike to take Kirk seriously as the only person who put it all together which quite possibly made all the difference to Pike when he promoted Kirk to First Officer in Pike’s absence, and placed him next in line to the Captain’s chair.”

Ah, so the only female character is used solely to get the male character in a higher position while she mans a station that doesn’t do anything useful.

That’s not an improvement.

73. Zebonka - October 15, 2009

I’ve got a great idea for allegory. The Vulcans, having been displaced from their homeworld, are given a new planet (Palestine) under the impression that it’s okay to live there. Chaos ensues. Spock must think of a solution.

Solutions stare us in the face – in film form they might be easier for the stubborn old guard to swallow.

74. Nelson - October 15, 2009

#68- Well, I guess I missed all the times they spoke of destiny. Sure, that line of thinking is reasonable that any changes Nero caused would repair itself in the new timeline. But then, this is an alternate time line. So whose to say things will turn out the same. It’s sort of like the Mirror Universe we’re in now. : )

I just had a little issue that Kirk gets handed the Enterprise that fast.

75. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

72: “Ah, so the only female character is used solely to get the male character in a higher position while she mans a station that doesn’t do anything useful.”

Uh yeah. And after she did that she disappeared for the rest of the film, right? That’s ONE of the things she did. Uhura had a bigger role in this film than McCoy, Sulu, and Chekov.

If your complaint is that she wasn’t THE star of the show, well ya got me there.

I kinda figure it’d be hard enough credibly taking Kirk from rebel to Starship Captain in one movie over a span of 3 years, without also giving every other character 15 uninterrupted minutes in the spotlight too.

Don’t get pissed because this ONE movie did not deliver EVERYTHING that every fan wanted to see in it. Just imagine the mechanics of that actually happening. A movie that lasts a solid week long and makes no sense because its primary focus is to depict a thousand competing ideas so all the fans can have everything they want in one film instantaneously.

That would taste like a dirt sandwich.

76. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

“Bob: I think Alex is Kirk and I’m Spock.”

I dunno. Bob could pass for Vulcan, but Alex looks more like a redshirt, painfully aware of the life expectancy of redshirts.

77. No Khan - October 15, 2009

Whats with all the Greg Grunberg questions. Who cares that much whether he’s in the darn movie or not!

78. Dalek - October 15, 2009

#64 Darren the whole script with various revisions and deleted scenes was leaked online a few weeks ago. Unfortunately it is no longer available at the link and I think posting a link here would only go on to annoy the writers who didn’t choose to have it online. But yes, the whole Shatner cameo was in it and it was more than a cameo it was actually made to be a key scene which convinces Spock that his friendship with Kirk is worth staying in Starfleet for. Alex and Bob really nailed the friendship between Kirk Prime and Spock Prime in that scene, and everything Kirk said (except singing) sounded like it would have come from the Kirk we know and love. In fact it showed Kirk wasn’t happy with retirement and craved one last adventure with Spock, adding Symmetry to the events of the movie.

79. Son of a Maui Portagee - October 15, 2009

#.75

Obvioulsy, you aren’t the intended audience for a stage production of NICHOLAS NICKLEBY.

theater2.nytimes.com/mem/theater/treview.html?html_title=&tols_title=NICHOLAS%20NICKLEBY%20(PLAY)&pdate=19811005&byline=By%20FRANK%20RICH&id=1077011430904

80. Jeyl - October 15, 2009

@75

I think you’re more upset than I am.

81. boborci - October 15, 2009

39. FATMAN BRUNO – October 15, 2009

No idea. Was not filmed.

82. boborci - October 15, 2009

35. Chasco – October 14, 2009
“Also, one of the things that we heard a lot was that women do not like sci-fi because there is no emotion.”

And you heard this rubbish where, exactly, guys? Ever been anywhere near a Star Trek (or Sci Fi) convention? There are (gasp) lots of women there! Do you have the remotest idea how much fan mail all the original cast (esp Nimoy) received from women?

——–

We’ve said before in interviews that our experience with Trek was that women did like it. All we were saying is that in terms of the industry, the common thinking is that Sci-fi is cold and women do not turn out the same way as men. Wether or not that is true, our approach had to deal with that perception.

83. boborci - October 15, 2009

62. Lando – October 15, 2009
Thanks for deleting my post without notice.

“Alex: Even going back in time is a violation of the prime directive for him.”

Spock has no problem with accidentally killing 6 billion Vulcans, which is basically screwing the Prime Directive’s behind, but he has moral problems with doing a time travel to undo the damage he caused? That is not logical. Not at all.
—–

Certainly is was not Spock’s intention to see Vulcan destroyed. The experience of losing his planet could easily lead him to logically conclude that any interference is inherently unpredictable and dangerous. Also, since we are not using classical physics rules of time travel (relativity) and are instead using Quantum mechanics, there is no such thing as being able to “fix” the timeline.

84. boborci - October 15, 2009

60. Lando – October 15, 2009
And he was the one who proposed time travel to save Earth from the whale probe, guys.

—-

On a secret mission in which they made it clear they were to interfere as little as possible.

85. boborci - October 15, 2009

67. Jeyl – October 15, 2009

As a result of Uhura’s actions, their shields were UP unlike any other ship, and thus they survived.

86. ChristopherPike - October 15, 2009

85: Bob. Please glance over my post (#43) at -

http://trekmovie.com/2009/10/15/library-computer-review-of-star-trek-enterprise-the-romulan-war-beneath-the-raptors-wing/#comments

Thank you. :)

87. Jeyl - October 15, 2009

@85

Bob, I didn’t ask you to reply to my comment specifically, so thanks for going one step beyond.

However (And this is most likely not your fault), in regards to the shields being up, I’m still not entirely convinced of that. Maybe it was the way the film was edited in the final version or something, but I just did not get the impression the Enterprise was in any danger in the debris field. I saw the film three times and I truly did see chunks of debris hitting the Enterprise and leaving big marks on the hull, not to mention that slow moving saucer section that ripped off those nacelle panels. Aren’t shields supposed to ‘protect’ the Enterprise from harmful objects such as debris?

Maybe If the Enterprise came out of warp and was instantly met with a barrage of the Narada’s torpedoes and had survived thanks to the shields being up, than the whole point of warning Pike before they entered Vulcan would have had a much more better payoff. But as it is, the Enterprise had an entire minute to react before Nero ordered his weapons to be fired on the Enterprise since the shields depicted in the film didn’t protect the Enterprise from any of the debris.

88. boborci - October 15, 2009

87. Jeyl – October 15, 2009
We did a different take on shields where it STRENGTHENS the hull, instead of an invisible egg shaped force field. Imagine the damage. Also, the Narada DID IMMEDIATELY FIRE. That’s how the other ships were taken out so fast. Sulu says, “we can’t take another hit.”

89. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

Nero fired on the Enterprise once and then countermanded his order when he realized it was the Enterprise.

Now Bob will need to put HIS shields up for changing how the shields worked from TNG.

INCOMING!!!

90. Lando - October 15, 2009

boborci, why are you always jumping between 1. “Spock doesn’t want to” and 2. “Spock can’t” undo the damage? 1. doesn’t fit the character, because he did it before, and undoing the destruction of Vulcan that shouldn’t have happened and that just happened 3 days ago would be better than anything, and 2. doesn’t fit Trek time travel. Voyage Home, First Contact, Yesterday’s Enterprise…

Picard followed the Borg because they were changing the past. “We must follow them back to repair whatever damage they’ve done!”. Same rule should apply to Spock. Nero was changing the past. Spock’s mission would be “Undo the damage!”. Even if they screwed up “just” a parallel universe. They had no right to screw up a parallel universe. Prime Directive. So his mission would be: “Undo the damage!”

And he can undo the damage, because obviously time travel is possible in Star Trek. They have been doing it for 40 years in the franchise, and for 200 years in that fictional universe they live in. From the first episode of Enterprise to the last episode of Voyager.

91. Lando - October 15, 2009

#89. No, he actually got that right, because the shields in The Undiscovered Country, AND Star Trek Nemesis, worked the same way.

92. Lando - October 15, 2009

But neither Kirk nor Uhura had ANY effect on the Enterprise’s survival. The Enterprise didn’t slow down. She reached Vulcan at the exact spot and the exact time she would have reached it without Kirk’s intervention. And then Pike would have seen the wreckage, ordered red alert, shields up and so forth. The Enterprise had a full minute before the Narada saw her.

It’s in the movie, I saw it. Kirk’s effort was actually pretty pointless, because he didn’t change anything.

93. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

@80: Trust me. That’s not upset.

@79: You mean eat breakfast. Go in to the show. Come out of the show. Eat dinner? That’s what a stunt double is for.

94. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

91: “#89. No, he actually got that right, because the shields in The Undiscovered Country, AND Star Trek Nemesis, worked the same way.”

But it doesn’t work that way in TNG or TMP. It seems to change willy nilly, which is just one of those things you have to accept when the universe you are watching isn’t real. Heck, I never even thought of the depiction of how the shields worked in THIS film as a problem at all until Jeyl tried to make it one. I still don’t see it as a problem.

95. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

92: “But neither Kirk nor Uhura had ANY effect on the Enterprise’s survival.”

Excuse me? The shields were up because of Kirk/Uhura. Nero fired on the Enterprise ONCE while her shields were UP. Sulu noted how powerful the Narada’s weapons were. Had the E’s shields been DOWN, she would have been rubble like the rest of the fleet. After hitting the E once, Nero countermanded his order to destroy her because he recognized the Enterprise as Spock’s ship. Therefore, Kirk/Uhura saved the E from being obliterated by that first shot.

96. Jeyl - October 15, 2009

@88

Bob, thanks for clarifying the new approach on the shields (Though how does that affect Transporters?), I must contest your “the Narada DID IMMEDIATELY FIRE” defense.

I would like to point out the word “IMMDEDIATELY” which means “without interval of time”. Something that happens like *SNAP* that. Was that how it was depicted in the movie?

No.
I’m sorry Bob. Really! But I did not getting that impression.

Here’s how the sequence played out. When the Enterprise comes out of warp, it ends up in the middle of the debris field. This sequence than goes on for about a minute showing the Enterprise maneuvering through the debris before the crew spots the Narada. We than cut to the inside of the Narada where a crew member says “Captain, there’s another Federation ship!”. This comes a whole minute after the Enterprise came out of warp over Vulcan.

The Narada firing on the Enterprise was not immediate.

97. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

90: “Even if they screwed up “just” a parallel universe. They had no right to screw up a parallel universe. Prime Directive. So his mission would be: “Undo the damage!”

No, man. That’s not how MWI works. Spock didn’t “screw up” a parallel universe. His actions CREATED that parallel universe, and once it was created, once the offshoot went it’s separate direction, the entire future Spock knew and came from became unwritten and different for this new universe.

The only Prime Directive in effect is the same Prime Directive that’s always been in effect in Star Trek. The offshoot universe which Spock created and inhabits was itself a creation resulting from his “interference.” So how can he be held to some temporal version of the Prime Directive when the offshoot itself is the interference? What would interference mean in this case?

There is no restoring the timeline because the timeline Spock came from is intact. Nor is there any “restoring” of the parallel universe because there was no parallel universe before Spock’s actions created it.

What would you restore it to? Nonexistence?

98. Lando - October 15, 2009

#95. LOL, you didn’t even read my post. I made clear that the shields would have been up without Kirk/Uhura’s interference, because the Enterprise had a full minute before the Narada saw her.

99. boborci - October 15, 2009

97. Jeyl – October 15, 2009

You know how in a car wreck, two seconds is a life time? Certainly you would agree that coming out of warp to find all your school mates dead and half the fleet destroyed while coming face to face with a giant killer ship as you “turn the wheel” to avoid being killed by debris is a car crash moment, no?

100. Lando - October 15, 2009

#97: If anything, Nero’s action created that parallel universe, and Spock landed in it.

And why the hell am I arguing with you? You aren’t Orci.

101. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

96: “Here’s how the sequence played out. When the Enterprise comes out of warp, it ends up in the middle of the debris field. This sequence than goes on for about a minute showing the Enterprise maneuvering through the debris before the crew spots the Narada. We than cut to the inside of the Narada where a crew member says “Captain, there’s another Federation ship!”. This comes a whole minute after the Enterprise came out of warp over Vulcan.”

And unless my memory is off Pike ordered the shields up BEFORE they arrived at Vulcan directly because of Kirk/Uhura.

“The Narada firing on the Enterprise was not immediate.”

Well now that depends on which two particular points in time you are measuring between, doesn’t it? As soon as Ayel informs Nero that another Federation vessel has arrived Nero orders it destroyed too.

I can hardly expect Nero to immediately order the ship destroyed BEFORE he has become aware of it. The NEXT set of words out of his mouth after Ayel tells him about the ship is an order to destroy it.

102. Lando - October 15, 2009

Pike would have ordered shields up anyway as soon as he saw the debris field. Heck, shields are probably raised automatically when somebody yells “Red Alert!”

103. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

98: “you didn’t even read my post. I made clear that the shields would have been up without Kirk/Uhura’s interference, because the Enterprise had a full minute before the Narada saw her.”

The shields went up because Kirk/Uhura alerted Pike to a trap. If there had been no Kirk/Uhura warning, or if Pike hadn’t listened—umm, I DO recall Pike seemed to be on his way off the bridge as he ordered Kirk back to sickbay?—what would have been the result when the ship came out of warp in a debris field completely surprised and expecting to find nothing unusual with Pike off the bridge and having to get back to find out what had happened?

104. Jeyl - October 15, 2009

@99

This is fun, Bob! However, I believe you’re misinterpreted me. I’ll try to be a bit more clear in my wording so excuse the excessiveness.

I was referring to the time it took the Narada to realize when the Enterprise was there. As an earlier scene demonstrated, the Narada was able detect the other Federation Ships *before* they entered Vulcan and thus were prepared to deal with them before they exited out of Warp. The Enterprise’s situation was completely different in that the Narada didn’t even know the Enterprise was there until a whole minute passed *after* it came out of warp, thus putting it in different circumstances than the earlier Federation Ships.

105. CmdrR - October 15, 2009

So… Nero and Spock crossed from one parallel universe to another.

Bob Orci, could you track down my 8th grade geometry teacher and tell him he got the whole ‘parellel lines never intersect’ thing wrong? Oh, and find my algebra II teacher and tell him it’s been 30 years and I still haven’t used that crap. Thanks, Bob.

BTW — Seriously now. Do you think you’ll try to get some TOS-style social commentary in there? I mean, along with the ‘splosions and other fun… I’d really love to see it.

106. boborci - October 15, 2009

While we’re on the subject, it seems to me that in the climax of
Star Wars, they start to fire that death star beam starts it takes A LOT longer than the first time around, and it just seems like Luke’s shot coulda’ never taken out the Death Star in time to keep the one second burst of killer ray from shooting off.

And in JFK, it just seems like Kennedy coulda ducked and gotten the hell out of there, cuz when Garrison is describing the events, it takes like a minutes or two between the first shot and the one that killed him when we know it had to be six seconds.

Simultaneous action in film is almost NEVER depicted through split screen, which would be the only way to actually depict it in a way that might satisfy some here.

107. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

104: “The Enterprise’s situation was completely different in that the Narada didn’t even know the Enterprise was there until a whole minute passed *after* it came out of warp, thus putting it in different circumstances than the earlier Federation Ships.”

AND when there is a relevant difference there could also be a different response. Ayel was the informant to Nero on the matter. Why did it take a “minute”? Maybe Ayel was dong something else briefly, which is not an unreasonable expectation since the entire fleet had been blasted and they may have thought that was all of ‘em. A minute is not a lot of time. Maybe he had to pee.

108. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

@106: AND in Star Trek 3 when the Klingons board the Enterprise and make their way to the bridge they used a LOT more screen time than the countdown clock on the bridge said they had available.

109. boborci - October 15, 2009

90. Lando – October 15, 2009
This website contains archives of this very discussion. enjoy!

110. Jeyl - October 15, 2009

@106

Bob, I am by no means done with this argument, but I’m going to let it go because you’re just so freaking awesome coming here and chatting with us in the comments section. I just don’t want you to leaving here feeling uncomfortable about chatting with us.

Good night and it was an honor to chat with you good sir.

111. dmduncan - October 15, 2009

Just about all films require some suspension of disbelief. Romantic comedies do probably even more than science fiction! That’s the art. All you can reasonably expect from any film is that it not outrageously contradict it’s own verisimilitude and internal logic. And that this film did very well. But if you want to pick at it until you find something that makes you feel miserable about it, you have that option. I just don’t know why some people find that more enjoyable than the movie itself.

Go back to TOS. The Enemy Within. Good episode, right? Okay, so Kirk can’t beam Sulu up from a freezing cold planet where he is in danger of dying because of the transporter malfunction. But why no shuttlecraft recovery? What do they store on that hangar deck anyway? Segways?

112. Anthony Pascale - October 15, 2009

by the way, I added a nice picture of bob and alex from the event, see above

you can see all the audio recorders between them, mine is the little red one. Bob and alex were generous for those who still use tape, picking up their recorders when they ran out and letting them know.

113. Anthony Pascale - October 15, 2009

RE: deleted post
I have not deleted any posts in quite a while and I don’t know anyone who has. However this site automatically deletes posts with offensive language or posts it deems as ‘spam’, either with certain types of links or based on IP ranges.

Lando, I suspect it was the language filter, so keep it family friendly, and i suggest toning down your anger level, i think you are going to give yourself an aneurysm or something, it is just a tv show and movie thing

114. Trek Nerd Central - October 15, 2009

#106. boborci.

It’s worth mentioning that the original series ALWAYS distended time in just such a fashion, especially when the Enterprise was on the verge of blowin’ up. I particularly enjoy watching the that retro “digital” clock count down the last 5 seconds in about a minute and a half. Fun stuff.

I am amazed, amazed, amazed that people get so tied up in knots over these things. They’re just storytelling conventions.

115. somethoughts - October 15, 2009

#96

Kirk saved the Enterprise from the initial Narada torpedo. He remembered the lightning storm and associated with the Romulan/Narada and cross checked with Uhura that the intercepted message was Romulan and that the Klingon Armada was destroyed.

Kirk warns Pike of the Romulan Trap awaiting them and verifies the intercepted message with Uhura, they cannot communicate with their fellow ships, taking into consideration all facts, Pike orders Red Alert and raises shields.

The initial plan was simply responding to a geological distress call, with the additional information provided by Kirk. The rescue mission became a potential Romulan Trap/Space battle.

Therefore, Kirk saved the Enterprise by alerting Pike about the impending danger and surviving the initial Torpedo. Had Kirk not been on board, the enterprise would have been destroyed by the first Torpedo and Nero would not have had time to recognize that this final ship was indeed the Enterprise containing the golden egg, younger Spock. If he had found out afterwards, he would have been like opps @#$!

The villain now has both the Elder Spock and Younger Spock to punish.

By a twist of chance/fate, the Enterprise was also saved by Sulu who “left the inertial dampers on” Thus giving them that extra minute to survive the onslaught of the Narada.

116. Chingatchkook - October 15, 2009

I’ve only glanced through some of the posts here, but I notice that there are a fair number of them from Mr Orci….one wonders how he will find the time to write a sequel script, lol!

117. RD - October 15, 2009

There… Are… Four… Lights!

118. Lando - October 16, 2009

“109. boborci – October 15, 2009
90. Lando – October 15, 2009
This website contains archives of this very discussion. enjoy!”

LOL. Geez…

119. C.S. Lewis - October 16, 2009

“Alex: The Original Series was what I knew, it already in re-runs on KTLA”

Dear Editors,
There is no such thing as, “Star Trek: The Original Series”. The name of that program is simply “Star Trek”. I am sure the speaker said, and fully intended, this: “The original series was what I knew …”

In this true transcription, “original” is merely an adjective to “series”, a common noun. This is accurate grammatically and historically as you will never find a program entitled, “The Original Series”.

Sincerely,
C.S. Lewis

120. Jeyl - October 16, 2009

@116

Don’t you get it? We’re writing the script!

121. C.S. Lewis - October 16, 2009

Dear boborci,

Many of us hope you will tell a meaningful story with your second chance at a Star Trek movie. While there were many interesting — and highly entertaining — moments in your first attempt, it says nothing in particular to the audience.

The introductory story of the Kelvin is one of the best pieces of science fiction drama produced by Hollywood. The concept of of man’s sacrifice for his family is timeless, poignant and worth telling again.

Unfortunately, that promising study was buried under the noise and chaos of the rest of the film, unduly burdened with “we need to include this, we need to do one of these, and we need a few character gags” additions. I left the cinema without a clear take away and I’m sure many others did too. Was this a thoughtful portrait of sacrifice for the greater good or was it a mindlessly noisy effects bonanza?

Sincerely,
C.S. Lewis

122. Bill Lutz - October 16, 2009

Let’s hope that this sequel is less like the Empire Strike Back as the first ‘reimagined’ Star Trek was SO similar to Star Wars….

123. doug_skywalker - October 16, 2009

@ 109- boborci:

Since this is a thread about writing the ‘Star Trek’ script, could you clarify something for me?

I’ve been wondering this for a while, and while it may sound a bit redundant or even a tad nitpicky, it’s still been something I’d like to hear from the person who actually WROTE the movie:

What is George Kirk’s offical rank? He wears Lieutenant Comander stripes, yet is referred to simply ‘Lieutenant’ by Spock. Did I miss something in terms of how the rank insignia works?

Thank you.

124. VZX - October 16, 2009

Bob Orci:

As a physics teacher, I really wish that you’d stop dropping that “Quantum Mechanics” theory of alternate universes as a reason for this new timeline. Quantum Mechanics is such a vast subject, the alternate universe thing is just a maybe, not even really a theory. (Although, I guess in the fictional world of sci-fi, you can call it anything you want.)

I don’t know, I guess I just cringe everytime I read or hear someone say “It’s cuz of quantum mechanics.” Hey, I’m at least glad you got rid of most of the sounds in space.

125. boborci - October 16, 2009

124. VZX – October 16, 2009

As a physic teacher, you should be happy I keep mentioning the theoretical physics we relied on.

126. ger - October 16, 2009

LOL, when will you ever realize that the “science” and “theoretical physics” in your script are total nonsense?

127. Dalek - October 16, 2009

126 – you can only prove a theory is nonsense by disproving it. So go on, create a black hole and see where you pop out. Until you do you have zero evidence to back up your conclusion that it is nonsense.

128. Closettrekker - October 16, 2009

#126—-”…when will you ever realize that the “science” and “theoretical physics” in your script are total nonsense?”

The validity of the theoretical physics applied in ST09 means about as much to me as the virtue of the scientific theory applied in “Where No Man Has Gone Before”.

The real question to me is, “Was it entertaining?”.

The answer is yes (in both cases).

129. Closettrekker - October 16, 2009

Abd Bob, in case you haven’t heard it lately—-thanks for helping to make Star Trek fun again.

And quit stalling! Get to work on the next one!

I want a script (for Star Trek: Something Something) in hand by Thanksgiving…..:)

130. dmduncan - October 16, 2009

126: “LOL, when will you ever realize that the “science” and “theoretical physics” in your script are total nonsense?”

Why don’t you be more specific, Ger? You mean MWI? Perhaps you should send a note to Dr. Stephen Hawking who counts as just one of its many supporters, and whom I am sure you could “school” on a few things in his field of expertise. Maybe you should also school David Deutsch who regards this film’s depiction of MWI/QM events “okay as a speculation.”

Same goes to Mr. Physics teacher. The MWI of QM is a very popular alternative to the Copenhagen Interpretation. But even if the MWI is totally false, this is science FICTION, not SCIENCE.

Knock, knock. Anybody home?

Don’t forget that all important second word boys. Because there’s a certain amount of (apparent) BS in ALL science FICTION, even in what is considered hard science fiction, which this film would probably not even be classified as, same as rest of Star Trek wouldn’t.

So why reserve the science criticisms for this movie in particular? Star Trek has been violating science common sense since the 60′s, yet this is the first time I’ve heard such vitriolic nonsense about an issue which Star Trek has always had.

How has the Enterprise been beaming people all over the place without a receiver to recompose matter at the destination? Answer: Don’t know, don’t CARE.

So let’s stop the mean spirited hyperbole and start naming some names. Please do point out an example of a perfect Star Trek movie or episode which hit the sweet spot on every level, which was flawless in every regard such that even if you WANTED to bitch about it the way so many WANT to bitch about ST.09, you simply would NOT be able to. And if you DO manage to find that episode, well then I’m going to congratulate you my friend. You deserve an honor for becoming a fan of the entire franchise based on that one or two episodes, for you are certainly bearing a heroic amount of misery to have to put up with the other 99% of the less than perfect franchise and which, to be consistent, you must dislike as much as ST.09—for the same reasons you complain about ST.09—while still calling yourself a fan.

I think it’s really cool that Bob comes in here to respond. He doesn’t have to do that. And I’m pretty sure that he probably doesn’t appreciate being the target of trolling hyperbole anymore than anyone else would enjoy being told that what they worked so hard to do was nonsense.

I can’t imagine that with the level of conversation people like ger bring that Bob would long maintain an interest in posting here. Even if you don’t like everything they did in the film, he should be treated with the respect of a guest. That doesn’t mean you can’t ask him tough questions. But you probably shouldn’t sound like an angry 12 year old raised by two drunk parents, unless you are one.

Don’t take advantage of Bob’s obvious concern, as if he HAS to visit and post here, to troll him.

131. devon - October 16, 2009

I am confused by the uniforms worn on the Kelvin? Blue for command? Green? As well, white medical uniforms on the Enterprise and Kelvin? I know Medical is under Sciences, so blue makes sense, and white was used in the movies for medical as well, so this is a blending of the two, or just a case of variant uniforms within divisions! But, Green???? The only green used was for Kirk’s off-duty smock, not a divisional color! I know over the years Red and Gold have alternated for command, so is this a case of blue for command, with Blue, green and white being the Kelvin’s divisional colors, as Gold, blue & tan were used for the Original series pilot with no red whatsoever? Anyone know the answer? Thanks

132. AJ - October 16, 2009

124/126

I just watched “Matrix” with my 7 and 9 year old kids. The absolute wonder when they started realizing the premise was astounding. It’s all BS for sure, but it’s a mind bender.

In Star Trek, things like transporters, warp drive and time travel, regardless of physics theory, are the things that inspire young people’s imaginations and motivate them to explore science further.

I just happily suspend disbelief, sit back and enjoy it.

133. dmduncan - October 16, 2009

131: “Anyone know the answer? Thanks”

Probably not the answer you want, but the differences are due to two factors:

1. The series has always been a work in progress; its look was never “perfected” in the preproduction phase, so changes were made during the actual run. And,
2. There never was, and still is, no central Star Trek authority in charge of consistency, with veto power over production decisions across all films and series made by different people with different visions.

Regarding the green tunic. You correctly noted the command green that Kirk wore in TOS. Personally, I find the green more interesting. Green completes the third primary color in addition to red and blue. Red, green, and blue, being the primary colors, can be used to make every other color in the spectrum. A nice bit of Starfleet philosophy, perhaps, to embed in the symbology of the uniform colors. Unfortunately they went heavy on the gold and lost the possible meaning.

134. Captain Rickover - October 16, 2009

# 131

MCoy’s shirt under the red jacket was indeed greenish in the movies.

135. Captain Rickover - October 16, 2009

# 133

No, sir. You are wrong at all.

Primary colours are:
Red
Blue
Yellow

If you mix blue and yellow you get green.

136. ger - October 16, 2009

Wow, guys, are you born dense or does that take practice?

Nothing of what happens in this movie is backed up by any scientific theory, because it’s pure nonsense what happens in this movie.

137. ger - October 16, 2009

Of course the scientific theories make sense, but apparently, Mr. Orci doesn’t understand any of it. When I asked him how a supernova could possibly threaten the entire galaxy, he directed me to an article about a gamma ray burst. Which, of course, is NOT threatening an entire galaxy, and of course, NOT what happens in the movie. The depiction of the black holes in both the script and the final movie are totally laughable, because they ignore everything. Orci figured “well, it’s a black hole, it sucks things in”, and it seems that’s the only bit of “research” he did. And his claims that the time travel portion of this script is true to theoretical physics… whoa… VZX is right, whether he is a true teacher or not, that Orci should please stop with these claims because it’s obviously wrong.

138. AJ - October 16, 2009

136:

I guess we’re all dense.

“Nothing of what happens in this movie is backed up by any scientific theory”

1. The main characters grow from childhood to adulthood
2. Booze makes Kirk drunk
3. Kirk is attracted to Uhura
4. The characters can breathe on Earth and Vulcan, and in their ships
5. Gravity makes the characters fall during the ‘chute scene
6. Frodo’s sword glows when orcs are near

Have a bit of fun, man. It’s a pop TV/Movie series.

139. ger - October 16, 2009

And of course it’s nice that Mr. Orci is discussing stuff on a fan board, but why should that stop anybody from pointing out that what he says makes no sense?

140. trojan64 - October 16, 2009

I just wanted to say that I hope Mr Kurtzman’s comments about toys that should not be movies wasn’t directed at Transformers, because if it was I find that patently disingenuous and, as a fan of Transformers from its inception as well as Star Trek, rather offensive. If you thought that Transformers was beneath you as a writer, than perhaps you could have made that stand before you exploited it for profit. It may have been targeted towards a more juvenile audience from its beginnings, but the characters and stories of the original Transformers certainly aren’t void of the traditional archetypes that make for great storytelling. I realize that that may not have been what he was alluding to in those comments, but if it was, that certainly raises concerns that those same quality archetypes may go unappreciated as Star Trek goes forward.

141. somethoughts - October 16, 2009

#137

I think you are confusing documentaries from entertaining movies.

Bob can say whatever he pleases and if you don’t like it go cry in a corner.

Ready? Quantum Mechanics, Theory of Relativity, Event Horizon, Unified Field Theory, Alternate Realities, Time Travel, Paradox, did I touch a nerve yet? lawl@u troll ger.

Transformers are real and so is Luke Skywalker, get a grip.

142. McCoy's Gall Bladder - October 16, 2009

Now wait just a damn minute!

Hasn’t anyone yet understood that there is no STORY in the movie?

It’s all flash, bang, gee whiz. Read Roger Ebert’s review. Read other reviews.

Granted, It was a fun movie. It was a reboot. It was necessary to be a shallow film.

The best Star Trek Episodes and Movies were deep. They explored the human condition, they mirrored life.

This next movie has to be oscar ready. This next movie has to be Shakespearian. We cant allow Star Trek to devolve into ID4. Hold their feet to the fire.

And will somebody tell me what the vagina monster was all about? What kind of message was that to put into a family film? Vagina with teeth is out to eat Kirk, infamous lady’s man. Is that Freudian or Jungian? It’s blatantly feminist. Castration fantasies? Sacre Merde!

143. somethoughts - October 16, 2009

Threatening the galaxy can be interpreted as either shifting the balance of powers for the factions that control each quadrant and or the literal translation, consuming everything in its path. Perhaps the shockwave/gamma was so unique it really did pose a threat in that literal sense.

144. somethoughts - October 16, 2009

BTW don’t be afraid of perfection that you end up writing nothing, just go with what feels right and see where it goes. Don’t worry about making that perfect film, do what everyone one of us wishes we had the chance to do.

145. dmduncan - October 16, 2009

@135: No, I’m not. RG&B are the additive primaries. Cyan, magenta, yellow the subtractive primaries.

136: “Nothing of what happens in this movie is backed up by any scientific theory, because it’s pure nonsense what happens in this movie.”

Nothing of what happens in the above statement is backed up by any facts, because it’s pure nonsense what happens in the above statement.

Let’s sort a few things out here, genius. If you want to say that the movie was not a completely accurate depiction of scientific events, fine. Neither was the rest of Star Trek. So do you also go around in a fit about the rest of the franchise or just this one movie?

I have to infer you are doing the latter because you are specifically mentioning “this” movie. But then by inconsistently measuring out heaping clumps of critical justice you look like a whiny butt head who is picking on this film as though it was some radical departure from previous Trek. On the contrary, I think it paid MORE attention to science than most of its predecessors.

137: “Of course the scientific theories make sense,”

No actually, they don’t either because no one really understands how it all works. If we finally get a Theory Of Everything, THEN it will all make sense, and we’ll know which ones were right and which ones were wrong, but right now there are a whole host of competing and conflicting theories, most of which are speculations, and they are not all compatible.

As a screenwriter, Bob does not have an obligation to make a boringly accurate scientific portrayal—which WOULD be a radical departure from Star Trek—but he does have a responsibility to balance a number of different aims, one of which is to tell a good story which 100% accurate science does not always serve the best interest of, but which does serve the best interest of the franchise. So are YOU that dense really? Do you think it’s coincidence or accidental that so many films get the science only partly right?

“When I asked him how a supernova could possibly threaten the entire galaxy, he directed me to an article about a gamma ray burst. Which, of course, is NOT threatening an entire galaxy, and of course, NOT what happens in the movie.”

Wrong again Superboy! Gamma Ray bursts are indeed produced when stars go supernova, and there is indeed theoretical speculation that a powerful enough one could cause galactic mass extinctions, along with speculation that a GRB was responsible for a past mass extinction on Earth. I learned that way before the film since it was one of those terrifying possibilities that made the news and which I think I headlined in my news site at the time.

The science doesn’t have to be perfect. It’s enough that it be a current theoretical speculation, and even if it’s wrong, it’s like AJ says: It’s sure cool to inspire kids’ imaginations, which is what TOS did for me when I discovered it in reruns.

So the only thing “obvious” to me in all this is that you don’t do much research before you say dumb things to a talented screenwriter who is so cool that he likes to consider even what the CLUELESS fans have to say—even when they ignore his previous explanation and are too lazy to use Google to see if what he said had any merit, before treating him to another generous serving of RUDE.

146. dmduncan - October 16, 2009

@144: I’m afraid that Bob is going to take some of the skate park commentary he reads in here too seriously and turn into Barton Fink.

Alex and Damon mysteriously go missing and we get a Star Trek script, meant to be shot in black and white, where each character gets a 20 minute internal monologue.

147. dmduncan - October 16, 2009

And another thing. When Spock says the Supernova threatened the galaxy, was he speaking literally or figuratively? Did he literally mean the entire galaxy, or might a vast region of known space also be generically referred to as “the galaxy” in the vernacular of that time period?

In TUC after the Enterprise fires on the Klingons and Chang comes on to announce that he will blow Kirk “out of the stars,” was he speaking literally or figuratively? As far as I could tell, Kirk was not IN or even NEAR any stars, now was he?

148. dmduncan - October 16, 2009

And if there hadn’t been a TOS would there be needeless injectors today? Would we have tricorder like devices in the works? Would Motorola have invented the FLIP phone, and would that curious M logo look curiously like two Star Trek Delta Shields next to each other? (Coincidence? Yeah, right) Would we be doing teleportation experiments? Would invisibility cloaks be a real possibility? Would we have figured out clever ways to reduce the amount of mass-energy needed to warp space and consequently brought warp drive that much closer to theoretical possibility than it had been before?

Star Trek is as much a dream of the future as anything else, and dreams do not stay focused on only what is possible or may happen now.

149. VZX - October 16, 2009

125: Bob Orci

You’re right, Bob. I do realize that you did some homework on the subject. It’s just that quantum mechanics is such a vast topic that it doesn’t really make sense when you justify the validity of alternate timelines by saying: “It’s cuz of quantum mechanics.”

Whatev, no big deal. It’s just a nit-pick.

BTW: Yes, Ger, I have been a physics teacher for over ten years.

150. boborci - October 17, 2009

49. VZX – October 16, 2009

Well, I don’t always just say “quantum mechanics.” I’ve actually discussed specifics on this web page. Do you really want me to go into the Copenhagen vs. Many Worlds interpretation every time someone erroneously asks me why Spock Prime doesn’t “fix” the timeline? After all, you were the one complaining that I bring it up at all. Should I just say , “no comment?”

151. Darren - October 17, 2009

#78 Okay I’ve found “it”, and you are right… it’s amazing. They way Kirk Prime’s words about “going one more round” mirrored the “re-birth” of himself and the rest of the crew as they start their new adventures was wonderfully fitting and poignant.

I kinda feel now that this was too much of an important scene to not have approached Shatner with, even though the ending we saw worked in it’s own way. The alternative ending would have been so special. A final moment with the original Kirk in the most positive light the character embodies. I hope the writer’s release the screenplay pages, so that everyone can see for themselves what could of been…

152. somethoughts - October 17, 2009

#146

LOL Would be funny to see other unique directors take on Star Trek.

Quentin would have the snazzy 70′s logos and music blarring in between fight scenes.

John Woo would have Kirk dual wielding phasers and leaping into the air slow motion killing multiple Klingons at once.

James Cameron would have the Borg enslave mankind and have Kirk/Spock as the saviors of mankind, with incredible special effects and would rival aliens and T2.

Spielberg would have Kirk and Spock holding onto each other on a bike flying towards the moon, running away from the Klingons.

Michael Bay would paint the enterprise with flaming hot red logos and have slow motion pass by of shuttlecrafts over our enterprise heroes walking out towards the amazing music of Bruce Springstien, Megan Fox can be some Andorian babe who is designed to fluff Kirk once a while.

Did I miss any other directors?

153. josepepper - October 17, 2009

Don’t take this the wrong way but these two are so close, are they lovers???

154. dmduncan - October 17, 2009

@151: I actually agree. I think that would have been a very special moment.

Is it really too late to do that? Shatner’s softened up a bunch over the years. Maybe if enough fans bombard Shatner (and JJ) with personal pleas to do that scene, he might buckle under too much fan-pressure, and that might be something he would be willing to do “if asked.” Then we could see it in a re-release of the movie in the future, the way Spielberg re-released CE3K with new scenes. How much more money would that film rake in when advertised as having a new ending involving William Shatner?

The more I think abut it the more I think that would have been a (philosophically) awesome moment of the film. One of the film’s best moments, and it didn’t get shot.

155. VZX - October 17, 2009

150: Bob Orci:

No I wasn’t. I only ever had two complaints about the movie that I posted on this site, and it was never about Spock Prime.

I get it, you have went into detail before. I guess I just haven’t checked all the messages you posted. How about, instead of trying to justify the alternate timeline with QM, you just say that it’s simply an alternate timeline and leave it at that? Do you think that it puts the fanboys and critics at ease with a type of scientific proof? I mean, there are so many other things that are not possible that happens in all sci-fi movies (especially Trek) that are not explained away with modern physics theories, why is this one such a big deal? Is it to justify the new storyline?

Well, one thing I enjoy is offering explanations for Trek tech and science, and how the writers get around it (inertial dampeners? lol). It’s neat fun. Keep it up!

156. somethoughts - October 17, 2009

#154

I hope JJ and Paramount shoots and releases that William Shatner scene with the deleted Klingon scenes and run it in theatres again for 2 months, that would probably yield at least $100Million and more overseas. The special DVD/Blu Ray version could also net another few million.

Star Trek Movies directed by Nimoy or spock central has always been more successful than Shatner/Kirk directed movies, hmmms.

157. Son of a Maui Portagee - October 17, 2009

#127. Dalek,

You (and apparently several others) are obviously confused about how science works. In the scientific method, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence to PROVE a proposed theory or conjecture. Till then it remains unproven and doesn’t rise to become accepted, i.e. a part of science.

It is the obligation of the proposer to provide a method in their intellectual exercises to test and via that the evidence to prove – not the other way around.

158. sean - October 18, 2009

#155

I think he’s saying those theories function as a springboard, not necessarily as a justification. Valid science has inspired many, many science fiction stories that subsequently extrapolate it in a way that works for the drama/plot, but that is not necessarily accurate.

So when he references Quantum Mechanics, it’s merely to explain the source of his particular take on time travel, not to say ‘This story is 100% accurate according to QM and current science’.

159. Tara O'Shea - October 20, 2009

#51: Number One inside my head continues to be Jennifer Garner.

TrekMovie.com is represented by Gorilla Nation. Please contact Gorilla Nation for ad rates, packages and general advertising information.