Exclusive Video Interview: Orci and Lindelof Talk Star Trek Sequel (+ Fringe & Lost) | TrekMovie.com
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Exclusive Video Interview: Orci and Lindelof Talk Star Trek Sequel (+ Fringe & Lost) November 20, 2009

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: DVD/Blu-ray,Interview,Orci/Kurtzman,Star Trek (2009 film),Star Trek Into Darkness , trackback

For the sequel to Star Trek, the writing team of Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman will be augmented by producer Damon Lindelof. At the Star Trek DVD/Blu-ray launch party TrekMovie talked to Orci and Lindelof about the next Trek, getting a status update, thoughts on their approach and what research they are doing. Bob also talked Fringe and Damon talked about the final season of Lost. See video interview below 

 

Bob and Damon Talks Star Trek sequel, Star Trek TV (plus Fringe and Lost)

Video taken at the Star Trek Blu-ray/DVD Party

Highlights

Orci on Trek

Orci On Fringe:


Bob Orci and wife Melissa Blake at the Star Trek DVD/Blu-ray release party

Lindelof on Trek

Lindelof On Lost:


Damon Lindelof at the Star Trek DVD/Blu-ray release party

More Star Trek DVD/Blu-ray Party video interviews coming up
Look for more interviews from the party from cast and crew of Star Trek.

Photo by Carla Van Wagoner

Star Trek available now

Blu-ray DVD
3-disk set

2-disk

1-disk

 

 

Comments

1. Pat D. - November 20, 2009

>>”watching The Original Series again front to back”

Awesome!. Thanks you Bob Orci.

2. Allen Williams - November 20, 2009

I totally agree that they need to bring back Manny Coto if they are going to make a TV show. Season 4 of Enterprise was awsome and I understand he was a big part of that.

3. NCC-73515 - November 20, 2009

Sounds more like BTTF2 ;)

4. siphunclekaiju54 - November 20, 2009

I really like Lindelof’s last statement about going off the beaten path and having it not just be a traditional “MORE MORE MORE” or “ULTIMATE VILLAIN” sequel. At this point I’m pretty open to anything these guys want to throw out there, especially if it’s something unexpected.

5. FlyingWok - November 20, 2009

I hope they don’t feel super compelled to make the sequel “bigger” with “more more more” as many sequels do nowadays. Looking at the original Star Trek movies, the sequels weren’t about giving more and more and more — something like that’s simply unsustainable after more than a couple of movies — but just giving us a new story. Sure, budgets fluctuate, but can you really say that Star Trek III was bigger than Star Trek II? Or Star Trek VI bigger than Star Trek III?

Orci, Kurtzman, Lindelof, JJ — just give us a good story, with good characters, and a compelling theme.

6. Alec - November 20, 2009

If the guys are looking at great, classic sci-fi, then I would very much recommend ‘Solaris’ by Stanisław Lem and the film adaptation by Tarkovsky. There’s certainly not a huge amount of cross-over between a Star Trek blockbuster and this novel/film; but it should inspire creative energy nonetheless.

As for the elapsed period of time between Star Trek and Star Trek 12, I reckon that they’ve settled on 5 years. It can’t be too long a period because the actors clearly haven’t aged that much; and the team (plus the studio) presumably still wants to leave room for many possible sequels with this same crew. Making it 5 years lets the crew mature a bit and we can believe them being thrust into more complex scientific, personal, and inter-personal problems. As for the title of the film, I see no real need to include the words ‘Star Trek’. We all know that it’s a Star Trek film. But their leaving those words out might appeal to the mainstream; and it might give the title more ‘punch’. Either way, I’m not terribly bothered. I’m interested to see any aesthetic changes between the current and the new film: will they keep the same uniforms; will they keep the same bridge design? Will they please change engineering!

7. Flake - November 20, 2009

I like what Lindelof is saying..

I think Aliens is the classic example of what he is trying to say Re: Sequel.

Alien and Aliens are two completely different movies, yet it is still a sequel. One was a claustrophobic horror and the next was all out action. Perhaps we will see this played in reverse? Trek 2 might be more cerebral or something? More intelligent? No villain but rather some sort of 2001-esque happening? V’ger?

8. Flake - November 20, 2009

Indiana Jones comes to mind… there is a puzzle that needs solving (Iconians? V’Ger? Dysonsphere?) and its not just the Big-E trying to piece things together.. the Klingons (AKA Nazis, AKA Russians) are also trying to solve it.

The Chase (TNG) springs to mind as its a similar concept.

9. Shatner_Fan_Prime - November 20, 2009

”watching The Original Series again front to back”

I also appreciated that comment by Orci. :-)

Nice scarf, Damon.

10. dmduncan - November 20, 2009

“Orci is preparing for writing sequel by looking at “classic (non-Trek) great epic sci-fi stories”, including works of Arthur C. Clark, and “watching The Original Series again front to back”

Bob: Larry Niven, the Mote in God’s Eye. One of the best “first contact” SF novels ever, with action, adventure, and a subtle “message” that isn’t in one’s face. And obviously heavily influenced by Star Trek, with characters and equipment that can transfer nearly whole from one universe (Niven’s) to the other (Star Trek’s).

11. boborci - November 20, 2009

dmduncan – November 20, 2009

Agreed!

12. dmduncan - November 20, 2009

YAY!

13. C.S. Lewis - November 20, 2009

Dear Editor,
Please be reminded, there is no such thing as, “The Original Series”. There is merely the original Star Trek from 1966. Do others not think this anachronistic construct disingenuous in its purpose? What is the fanword? “Retcon”?

Sincerely,
C.S. Lewis

14. NCC-73515 - November 20, 2009

A scene that’s been running around in my head since Saldana said she’d like to kick someone in the sequel:
(Kirk and Uhura are alone, he’s trying to seduce her again.)
Kirk: “Forget for a moment that I’m the captain, okay?”
Uhura: “Aye.” (She kicks him.) “Sir.”

15. CmdrR - November 20, 2009

Star Trek : Ectomy.

Oh, come on! Which Arthur C. Clarke stories? Is a raise going to ascend with the help of dudes who look like the devilled ham guy? Will we see the Enterprise raised into orbit on diamindium lines and electro-magnets… and then rendezvous with a city in space full of three-legged spidersbots?

Apparently, there’ll also be a Mugatu, only he’ll be REALLY big.

Can’t wait.

16. CmdrR - November 20, 2009

BTW, Bob… re: Melissa.

Giggity.

17. CmdrR - November 20, 2009

If you guys have time, please read some of Iain M. Banks’ Culture books. They each stand alone. ‘Excession’ is great, and there’s a cool, very Trek short story: “The State of the Art:” from the collection of the same name. Good reading in any case.

18. dmduncan - November 20, 2009

Kirk is the Captain. He can’t go around hitting on Uhura (one of his bridge crew) like he’s still at the academy.

But I would like to see some conflict between Kirk and Uhura that gets resolved on the mat in the ship’s gymnasium during a martial arts workout between them, that puts Uhura on notice that he is the Captain now, and he’s not going to be acting like a cadet anymore, so that she has to adjust her image of the guy she knew at the academy into something very different.

19. OprahOmicron - November 20, 2009

OPE!
RAAAAAHH!

SHES CALLIN IT QUITS Y’ALL!

FO REAAL!

Also, ”watching The Original Series again front to back” is such a positive thing. Just like Harve Bennett prior to developing TWOK.

OPE!
RAAAAAAAHH!

20. Bill Peters - November 20, 2009

I have full Faith in Orci ,JJ ,Kuzman and the others to get this right and make a awesome Squeal. Doesn’t matter to me if it is in 2011 or 2012 as long as it has a good scrip and has stuff that we expect of Trek!

21. Bill Peters - November 20, 2009

I just want some nods to TOS, Good Characters, good theme and lots of Character moments!

22. somethoughts - November 20, 2009

Sounds like they may drop us into the missing 25 years then push forward to the end of the first movie. With the Klingons having cracked Nero’s computer and aware of the future, this will be very cool indeed. The Klingons will be more fierce and more advance than they were in the prime universe!

Hybrid Human-Romulan-Klingon race (theme: genetic engineering/cloning)
The benefits and dangers/morals/ethics behind this.

Flashback scene to Kirks very first attempt of the KM.

23. somethoughts - November 20, 2009

What was Kirks initial solution the one he tried so hard and failed, while thinking, “I do not believe in a no win scenario.”

A key battle scene he can reflect upon this.

24. Trek Lives - November 20, 2009

Reading Arthur Clarke and watching TOS seems like a good idea.

25. Diggin' up Bones - November 20, 2009

There’s always the theme of people being ruled by a computer, so Kirk has to teach them the value of having free will, and then destroy the computer by confusing it with irrationality or out-logicking it. That always makes a good story. Or, how about meeting up with a “superior” race who puts humanity to the test, and end up being impressed. Or, how about a good ole’ Klingon fight? (They’re nasty, they fart in airlocks, you know.)

26. Steve - November 20, 2009

I think the time frame should be like very shortly after. It can be about their first exploration mission. The mission of the Enterprise and Starfleet is to explore, and the first movie it was about saving earth, etc and the characters meeting each other and coming together. The next movie should be where the characters are pitted against the unknown, they learn more about each other as they go out learning the unknown. I don’t know they can do a lot. Maybe they can bring in something about the prime directive and not interfering with other cultures while making contact and maybe contrast the Federation’s way of building its alliance versus the Klingon’s way of conquering worlds. Maybe they could start the movie with a flashback where something went wrong meeting the Klingons for the first time and that is what led to first contact missions in the first place. So many thoughts!!!!

27. SirBroiler - November 20, 2009

Many Coto running a new Trek produced by JJ, Orci and Kurtzman? I think I just e-jayed in my jeans.

28. somethoughts - November 20, 2009

If JJ had his way, the first scene would start off with Spock ordering the words, “Fire!” Sorta like when Riker ordered Fire upon Locutus in the 2 part series, “best of both worlds.”

The cam pans to the viewscreen showing a bloody Kirk with the two ships about to destroy each other. Star Trek theme/logo scrolls and the film starts.

Very similar to what he did with MI3 opening sequence, with Ethan tied up and being tortured and his “wife” about to be killed.

29. Dalek - November 20, 2009

Bob, let us know what you think once you’ve watched the original series…

Come on, someone had to say it, hehe.

I was one of the guilty few who initially gave you a hard time about the movie but thoroughly enjoyed it when I saw it. I will not make that mistake again. I trust you guys to get it right whether that’s Khan or any other subject. I will not be as judgemental this time round.

Peace and long life!

30. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - November 20, 2009

Hey Bob Orci. When you watch the Tos Series again are you going to watch it on the Blu Rey Remastered or in the orignal form. I hope you pay a little attention to Miror Miror. The Terran Empire would be a nice little thing to explore. The 3 others I hope you pay attention to is Assingment Earth. Theres a Series there if you realy wanted to tackle a new series. A Private Little War is a great one with the Klingons and the Federation. Errend of Mercy. A good one with the Organions. War with the Klingons and the Federation and an all out fight. Maybe a little combo with a Private little war.

31. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - November 20, 2009

Hey Bob Orci. A great Idea for a new Series that could be based on Star Trek is one that has Gary Seven and Roberta Lincoln and there exploits and there main foe will be Khan and his race of Super Human Men and Women. What would you think. I think if done right would work realy well.

32. Kevin Rubio - November 20, 2009

Dude, two words (well one hyphenated word) stedi-cam ;-)

33. Eli - November 20, 2009

I wonder if it would be a good idea to retain links to the first film in the sequel?

I like the idea of encountering the Klingons with advanced tech culled from the Narada, but also, what about the Romulans?

Perhaps we could see a sequel inspired by “Balance of Terror” but this time it’s the Enterprise crossing the Neutral Zone trying to make a peace offering to expedite relations between the two powers so that the Federation can help them either prevent the Hobus Supernova from ever happening or to preemptively evacuate Romulus. But, of course the Romulans don’t believe them, and thus the encounter sets off a battle that almost reignites the earth-romulan war all over again.

34. Kirk's Kid - November 20, 2009

I love TOS, but I am not really a fan of science fiction. To me TOS was about something bigger than most science fiction.

35. Anthony Pascale - November 20, 2009

Rubio!!!!

Not all of us can be fancy Hollywood directors with fancy cameras!

it’s hard being your own cameraman and doing the interviews (especially in the crush of the red carpet), but i will endeavor to do better next time

unless you want to volunteer to be my camera guy?

36. Capt Mike of the Terran Empire - November 20, 2009

Hey Anthony. I would but Im in Texas. Oh and hey Bob Orci. I and some others think that you should get Anthony a Roll if even a small one in the next Star Trek Movie. Come on and get him in it.

37. tenfingersofdoom - November 20, 2009

“On if Star Trek could work on TV again, Orci states: “I have to say yes…good stories are good stories and some of the stories in the Trek vault are the best stories around. It is just a matter of the energy and the context of putting it in there.” ”

PUMP SOME CASH CAWLEY’S WAY SO WE CAN GET MORE RELIABLE RELEASE DATES.

38. Craiger - November 20, 2009

#37 Cawley should not be anywhere near real Trek TV Series. I would rather have Coto than Cawley.

39. TNC1701 - November 20, 2009

Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman: I know you guys said that you read these boards, so I just wanted to throw out a wish (again) I’m hoping you might be able to grant for the next movie. Bill Murray’s a great actor, I think he’d be great in a Captain’s chair. I don’t know whether necessarily what was previously suggested (Commodore Robert Wesley), but I really believe he’d be great. I think he could be a powerhouse of a Captain.

Okay, that’s all I have to say, probably the last time I’ll say it. Thanks.

40. Gary the Gorn - November 20, 2009

Hey Bob,

I vote for something with Gary Mitchell or Talis IV or the Doomsday Machine. Those are awesome episodes. I really like Assignment Earth too. An update on that story would be awesome.

I loved the new movie. I’ve been a Trek fan since 1970. I used to watch Star Trek after school every day on reruns.

41. Ashley - November 20, 2009

Manny/Bob Trek series please! :D

also, Bob Orci, I assume the Klingons have studied the Narada when Nero and them were captured… would they have obtained future tech from it? could that advance their tech in a similar way as the new Enterprise? just something to consider if maybe you haven’t. I don’t imagine that would be something you’d want to gloss over! :P

oh and I agree with #36. cameos and extras from the rest of the trek community are great. :)

42. BigBangTheory - November 20, 2009

I’d like to see Khan the hero saving humanity somehow through a twist of fate/circumstances. After all, in the first movie Spock was actually responsible for the destruction of Vulcan. If he didn’t create the red matter, there would be no destruction of Vulcan. Maybe Khan could be put in a position to save the Earth/Federation??? I’d like to see him go up against the Klingons!!! Too bad Arnold Schwarzenegger is too old to play a young Khan. Haste la vista Kirk!

43. NCC-73515 - November 20, 2009

Everyone watch Blood and Fire II, out now – It’s a great story! Something like that would be nice ;)

44. Paul Fitz - November 20, 2009

#43
Just went on the Phase II site, and I cant find it? Is it released somewhere else?

45. Trekluver - November 20, 2009

@ Mr. Orci

All I can say is Khan,Khan,Khan!!! Khan is a must, Its like makeing a Star Wars movie without some refrence to Darth Vader or Batman with out a Joker reffrence. Khan I’d a Star Trek classic And Goldden Villan and is a wonderful dish to serve to an audience!

46. nx01 - November 20, 2009

I just noticed that no one commented on how Damon Lindelof Dressed for the DVD Party. I don’t have anything bad to say. It just struck me as other worldly and unusual. It is an Anomaly in Star Trek talk.

47. cjmcguinness - November 20, 2009

I have only one request in relation to the Star Trek sequel: Please, please, please, PLEASE lose the ‘lens flare’ lighting/cinematography approach.

It wasn’t too bad the first time I saw the move, but now that I’ve watched it again a couple of times at home it is incredibly annoying and distracting and, in my opinion, detracts immensely from the whole visual of the film.

Oh, and more Scotty. Simon Pegg was very underused in the first film and his appearance for the last 40 mins (or so) definitely raised the tone of the movie and made it more light-hearted.

I’d love to see a ‘Mirror Universe’ based theme for ST:2 – Zachary Quinto with a goatee beard gets my vote. What better adversary than ‘evil’ versions of the crew :)

I know, I said I only had one request, and that’s three, forgive me.

48. CarlG - November 20, 2009

“There is something people come to expect from a sequel to a movie like this which is, bigger, badder, louder, more bad guys. I think the idea of saying ‘do we have to do that? Is there something else we can do that is off the beaten path?”

I like this. I like this very much. :)

@14: LOL! That would work almost too well!

49. Elim37 - November 20, 2009

I just want the writers to address my biggest problem with the first movie, which was the idea of the federation having access to Transwarp Beaming. It takes all the fun and adventure of space travel if such an invention exists. Even in Picard’s time, when elderly Dyson Sphere-Rehabilitated Scotty maybe came up with the technology, it’s truly outrageous. It’s like James Bond having a car that can cloak in Die Another Day. Where do you go from there? Nowhere. Time for Daniel Craig.

So I propose that in the TNG era the Federation finally developed the technology for transwarp beaming, but then the old Organians stepped in and forbade them from using it because, like the cloaking device, it would change the balance of power in the galaxy so drastically that all hell would break loose. The peace-loving Federation got no business running around with invisible ships, nor does it have any business being able to beam into the Delta Quadrant for five minutes to tell Neelix he’s not Quark and then beam back.

BUT…when Spock goes back in time he knows he’s in a space/time frame BEFORE the Organians caught wind of the Federation using the technology, so he figured he can get off ONE transwarp beam before they noticed it and stepped in to forbid them from further using it. This way, the transwarp beaming scene in the movie is no longer to outrageously insulting to our Trek Intelligence, and also fixes what will otherwise grow into a pretty big flaw in any of the sequels — namely, why don’t they just beam all their troubles away after Plot Point 1 drops, and then spend the rest of Acts 2 and 3 on Risa?

Come to think of it, why didn’t they just beam off Nero’s head and be done with it? If you can beam into a ship doing warp in the other direction probably in a whole different sector by now — maybe or maybe not still on the same heading you saw them on when they left — then you can do it through shields and beam off Nero’s faulty-logic-having head.

I know the writers will most likely never address the transwarp beaming fiasco, but I just wanted to share my “solution” it with fellow fans who might be having a hard time swallowing the beaming thing like I did. Organians. Done. And I’m happy to report that the beaming thing was the last of the movie’s major plot holes/contrivances that was keeping me down and I can finally relax and just let the otherwise-excellent film entertain me.

50. Ran - November 20, 2009

I don’t care if they are reading Arthur C. Clark or Mark Twain. Just give us a good story with a solid script.

51. Charla- Trek KUDOS to JJ, BOB and ALEX!!! (and Damon) - November 20, 2009

What great interviews! Thanks for the update- It is so exciting to hear what is being contemplated, and with such great care and thoughtfulness. I especially like the fact that they won’t be concerned with having to “out do” the first one.

As long as JJ, Bob, Alex (and Damon) are doing this, I believe after seeing these interviews and others, that all will be well for the next movies.

I have satisfaction/closure LOL now after seeing these interviews, and now know that Star Trek will be handled with great care. I can sleep well now- heehee, but seriously, I loved the movie, thanks for taking care of Star Trek so well guys!

52. Jim Nightshade - November 20, 2009

I like that pix of roberto with his wife-she is very cute, great smile-i bet she has quite a sense of humor-they look great together! I wonder how long they`ve been together-Hey bob have u read any ee doc smith-he basically invented space opera-his lensman series is awesome and his skylark spaceship series too-another great scifi inspire would be frank herberts dune and cs lewis’s space trilogy,out from the silent planet,perelandra, and that hideous strength-lewis did great at the ultimate battle between good n evil…ive wondered why the cs lewis trilogy and ee smith creations have never been made into movies–

53. Jim Nightshade - November 20, 2009

Forbidden Planet the movie from the 50s is a perfect trek type story-in fact i think gene r got more than a little inspiration from it-its a great smart story done perfectly-way ahead of its time-i believe based on shakespeare-the tempest-leslie nielson as a no nonsense no humor captain haha–robby the robot–and fp is paced just like a typical tos episode even with a sexy barely dressed girl haha-

54. fansince66 - November 20, 2009

A big YES to Manny Coto for a new Star Trek TV show(a long story-arc, with lots of little canon details. He can pull it off,with an emmy.).

The O&K crew will come up with a great story for the next star trek movie.Play Pike, Kirk,Spock,McCoy to the max,whatever your story might be.

55. Alex Rosenzweig - November 20, 2009

#37, 38 – I’d love to see Manny Coto as a Star Trek showrunner again, especially doing a Primeverse-based series.

However, I wouldn’t be dissin’ James Cawley. The man has been doing some pretty amazing stuff, considering the budget and other constraints he’s got. And right now, he’s really the one carrying the torch for a true continuation of Classic Star Trek, which puts him way up there in my book.

I wish I had a few tens of kilobucks I could give him to do even more Trek.

56. ted - November 20, 2009

Do Not Bring Back The Organians! Worst story idea EVER.

57. MarkF - November 21, 2009

Some anime science fiction might be good sources of inspiration for Orci and Kurtzman. I would recommend Katsuhiro Otomo’s Freedom, Planetes, and Starship Operators. They have nicely detailed mechanical designs and regular people living and working in space being hassled by governments and corporations.

58. TheMightyBruce - November 21, 2009

Please, a big NO to Manny Coto, don’t involve anyone from Berman’s team- they already destroyed Trek once, they will do it again if given the chance!

59. 790 - November 21, 2009

Let the Trek 12 movie angst begin !
Cool post btw!

60. Dan - November 21, 2009

The sequel has to be a great film, that’s it!

61. ChristopherPike - November 21, 2009

Manny Coto. Heck yes!

I watched three episodes from Enterprise’s 4th Season last night, back-to-back for my own movie night…

The trilogy set on Vulcan if anyone’s interested –

“The Forge”
“Awakening”
“Kir’Shara”

Still makes me sad, the potential TV let slip through it’s fingers.

Why don’t CBS test the waters… by taking the best episodes from later ENT and let them out for a little air. Show them on a mainstream US channel and gauge the reaction to Star Trek right now….?

62. Will_H - November 21, 2009

I think Many Coto would be great. He took Enterprise from something that was stumbling all over thanks to Berman and made it something awesome, something that had Paramount not been idiots probably would have finished last year. He makes good TV and good Trek, I’d totally be in favor of it. I would like to see a return to the prime universe and I think a new show would be great. Please, though, lets move forward, as in post-NEM.

63. Chasco - November 21, 2009

Bob Orci is actually going to watch the original series? Thank God!

Bob, do us a favour – would you please pay attention to Scotty’s character while you’re watching, and note that he IS NOT THERE FOR LAUGHS? Thanks.

Oh, and do take a peek at the engineering set while you’re there, and pick up a few ideas for improving the one on the new ship (steam vents and water pipes! Gah!)

64. JACathcart - November 21, 2009

C’mon Chasco (#63), give Orci a break.

No, Scotty wasn’t always comedic, but there were several episodes when he was ENTIRELY comedic (“The Trouble with Tribbles” and “Wink of an Eye” come to mind).

Don’t panic just because they hearkened back to some of those great classics. And, keep in mind, Simon Pegg IS a comedic actor.

65. Alientraveller - November 21, 2009

#11. Bob, if you really like Larry Niven, I hope you’re aware of the Kzinti and how Jimmy Diggs has been trying to get them to make a reappearance for years. The Gorn and Tholians are also fascinating characters who’ve never had the budget to have the big role they deserved.

Meanwhile, everyone suggests what it’d be like if Khan or Kor, Koloth and Kang became allies of Kirk in this reality, but are we forgetting the Romulan commander? “In a different reality, I could have called you friend.” I am saying Vulcan-Romulan reunification should be dealt with and not shoved away thanks to Spock saying he’s found a suitable planet for a colony.

Lastly, since people are divided on a good old political plot vs. a classic one of exploration, why not make that your theme? Kirk is the young captain of the flagship, he may want to lay low and just be an explorer making first contact with the Gorn or whoever, but events in the galaxy force him back in the centre of the interplanetary struggle between the Feds, Klingons and Romulans.

66. Dom - November 21, 2009

63. Chasco

Yes, because writers are always kept so busy designing an building sets! Without pipes, how are the crew supposed to get water? ;)

As for the Manny Coto suggestion kicking around here, how about a prequel set in the new universe about young Captain Christopher Pike set in the years following the destruction of the Kelvin? I’d love to see the series made for someone like HBO: fewer episodes of higher quality.

Oh and LOTS of lens flares and regular shooting at the Budweiser plant please. I loved all that stuff: it gave two fingers to the flat, boring look of the 1987-2005 Trek shows!

67. Holger - November 21, 2009

It’s a promising idea to review classic SF.

68. somethoughts - November 21, 2009

The next film will be very much like how First Contact was for the TNG crew.

With Generations having Shatner to pass the torch to Picard

Similair to how Star Trek 2009 had Nimoy passing the torch to the new folks (Pine, Quinto etc.)

The next film will most likely deal with one of the best stories in the TOS series and that will either be Mirror Mirror, The city on the edge of forever, or Space Seed. Very similar to how TNG’s very own movie dealth with their best series, “best of both worlds” and the Borg.

If the time frame for the next movie is say 1-5 years after we last saw them, the next movie will most likely deal with Khan and/or Mirror Mirror.

The problem with Mirror Mirror and The city on the edge of forever is that they already used the alternate reality/time travel plot in the last film, the only logical choice remaining is a theatrical version of space seed in this new reality. Backstory of Khan or Backstory of Klingons in this new universe.

69. Pat D. - November 21, 2009

I want to know what timeframe it is going to take Bob Orci to watch the original series, front to back!

I think it is fantastic that he is going to do that. Wouldn’t we all want to get paid to watch all 79 episodes of TOS again? It will be thoroughly enjoyable, but that is what I call COMMITMENT!!

Bob Orci, I salute you!

70. Jason spriggs - November 21, 2009

Yup,

Classic and high concept sci-fi is the way to go. There’s still room for lensflare, chases and explosions as long as there’s an amazing mysterious IDEA at the center of it that can inspire interesting and real character interaction.

Another ‘evil starfleet admiral’ or conspiracy or another political Klingon-family-honour-coupe, or time travel and alternate realities has been done to death.

Honestly i think ST:TMP was the only trek film that got close to attempt the ‘exploration’ aspect of trek, and the only one with any kind of grandeur.

oh yeah, and add light sabers.

71. P Technobabble - November 21, 2009

Bob O: I wonder if there is a way to incorporate every single suggestion you’ve been given?

A bit silly, isn’t it?

TOS seasons 1 & 2 had some truly fabulous stories, while season 3 had a few great moments, here and there (but most of the stories weren’t that good), IMO.

72. dmduncan - November 21, 2009

I love Niven’s books because he has some spectacular science fiction ideas, like the Ringworld, or the Moties.

A criticism against his books is that his human characters are weak. But that is precisely where Star Trek is strong.

So the complementary fit is obvious: Niven provides true SF spectacle, and Star Trek provides great characters. Not only that, but the fantastic aliens and ideas in his books seem prepared for a Star Trek adaptation.

Of course, I don’t know how feasible that is (maybe not at all?), but yes, not only would Kzinti be cool to see as part of the Star Trek universe (again(TAS)), but imagine the Enterprise discovering the Ringworld, or uncovering the secret of the Motie threat. COOL!

And all these years there is still no movie on Ringworld or the Moties; I’ll bet a borrowed and far less spectacular idea like Halo does make it to the screen before Ringworld does. But hey, if it takes Star Trek to get Niven’s ideas in the movies—something I recall Niven himself wanting, and also for his mother, to see—and with Star Trek’s distinctive character contributions and situations, I wouldn’t complain. In fact, I’d love it.

Again, I don’t know how feasible it would be to get the rights to do a Niven book, or even if that’s the sort of thing Bob wants to get involved with, but right now—playing a bit of fantasy football in here—it’s a fun thing to think about seeing for real.

If nothing else, reviewing the series and looking outside the series at hard SF for inspiration is a great idea, and the thing to do.

You go, Bob!

73. KD6DXA - November 21, 2009

I would like to see a story about genuine exploration (strange new worlds, and all that) and not just another story about a “bad guy.”

74. Jim Nightshade - November 21, 2009

Yes jason spriggs i agree-tmp was the ONLY trek movie to attempt a high science fiction concept and about the only one that was truly going where no one had gone before and the only one that truly was cosmic in story and scope- Bob and Alexs trek is the other one that counts as being an epic grand adventure-it was nice to see a big screen trek again-not that the other movies were lousy or anything,i just like high concept science fiction epics in my movies-sometimes-so i am feelin good about their choices for sci fi research for the new movie.

75. Steve - November 21, 2009

I don’t think the next movie should be set 5 years later because the Enterprise was on a 5 year mission, unless that has changed in the alternate timeline, it really is not stated if the Enterprise is on a 5 year mission to explore, do humanitarian stuff, etc. Of course the year is 2258 and not the year when Kirk took command in the original timeline. I don’t know it is so confusing

76. dalek - November 21, 2009

#63 Chasco I agree on the Scotty bafoonery comment. Although he has been known to be the fuel for comedy, we really need to see Scotty to be a more 3 dimensional character like he was in TOS.

Bob when you watch TOS notice how formidable Scotty is when Kirk leaves him in command of the ship. A great example is A Taste of Armageddon, where he refuses orders from a Federation Ambassador. This is a side to Scotty that can compliment his crew banter and doesn’t have to replace it. He can be a laugh and quite a serious poker player as well!

77. Cafe 5 - November 21, 2009

I can’t give Orci and Kurtzman a blue ribbon for their screenplay for Star Trek because there were far too many holes in the story line they came up with. Just because its written on the page doesn’t make it believeable. JJ made some of their ideas work others just fell flat. Good scripts are not written but rewritten until they tight and are true to the characters they are telling a story about. The biggest point is plausibility with concepts and technology. Things function a certian way even in science fiction ,that can’t be just tossed aside just to make a story move faster. Its like tearing pages out of a novel to make it a faster read.

78. screaming satellite - November 21, 2009

what was that film Spielberg was gonna do – ‘Intersteller?’

it sounded like it was gonna be a massive 2001 style space epic

what happened to that?

79. Kirk's Girdle - November 21, 2009

I thought of a potential side plot for the sequel that feels so right in the alternate universe, but would also probably get me lynched.

80. Kirk's Girdle - November 21, 2009

Re: 76. I agree on Scotty. I always got the impression that Doohan’s character was eminently capable of commanding the Enterprise, but engineering was his true passion.

81. Joe Sidney - November 21, 2009

Why is he climbing a mountain?

82. Kirk's Girdle - November 21, 2009

Because it’s there….

83. Trekenstein - November 21, 2009

#65. – “Bob, if you really like Larry Niven, I hope you’re aware of the Kzinti and how Jimmy Diggs has been trying to get them to make a reappearance for years.”

Ah yes. “Cats” in space. Pass.

84. dalek - November 21, 2009

#80 Doohan’s Scotty also delivered sublte comedy when the situation was serious “Aye, the Haggis is in the fire for sure!”

85. G - November 21, 2009

Lindelof on Trek

* …… Could this be something that pre-dated some of the adventures they had in the first movie? ……

————————————————————————————————–

A “prequel” to the prequel??? Come on. Don’t do that. The last movie was already (technically) several years earlier than the original 5 year mission (because Pike and Spock were supposed to be together on the Enterprise for several years, but Pike only had command 1 day in this movie.. so, I assume Kirk took command way earlier this time than he did in the original time line).

I don’t see how/why you would go back any further. Move forward.

86. boborci - November 21, 2009

39. TNC1701 – November 20, 2009

Bill Murray. Noted.

87. MarkF - November 21, 2009

#74 I agree about TMP, and would like to see the aborted memory wall sequence finally done in some setting.

88. screaming satellite - November 21, 2009

86 bob orci

also Harrison Ford as a Starfleet Admiral giving Kirk his orders…(or something like that).

and if you can manage it Megan Fox as Number 1 (although she probably wouldnt be number one in this timeline)

89. Spike47 - November 21, 2009

A few things occur to me:

Wouldn’t the destruction of Vulcan leave a void in both political structure and defense capabilities of the Federation?

Would the Klingons want to take advantage of this?

Do the Romulans know that there’s a dangerous nova in their future?

If they do, would that make them more aggressive or less?

I have more, but I’ll begin with this.

90. P Technobabble - November 21, 2009

The new timeline opens up an infinite number of new possibilities which do not have to adhere to anything that happened in the “original” timeline. For example, in Spock Prime’s world, Kirk knew his father… but in the altered timeline, he did not. This is the kind of indication that things are not happening as they did, so whatever happened in the original timeline does not have to be viewed as “the way things were.”

There is only NOW… a new now, in fact.

I have no problem with a Trek universe that has been turned upside-down, and this is precisely what will allow the writers to come up with something that is actually NEW. Sure, you can have all sorts of “echoes” from the “past,” but the new crew has no knowledge of HOW things worked out before… apart from anything Spock Prime might elaborate on. Otherwise, it’s an entirely new game.

This is the main reason I am against seeing some of the rehashes that have been suggested here, like Khan. Much as I love TWOK (and Montalban’s work), I’m actually getting sick to death hearing about Khan.

Science fiction is also about suspending disbelief. Refusal to participate in such suspension puts one in the position of nitpicking and criticizing everything, simply because one refuses to participate. Better to simply go along for the ride. Of course, in order to even take the ride, one must be willing to climb aboard… open-minded, and without predjudice.

Now that there is a new “playground” to play in, I do not see any absolute need for all sorts of plot-points, or other alterations to be explained. I much prefer to see the new Trek carry on, have some fun, and see what kinds of things can arise in the new universe. Perhaps the new universe will be better than the old one. Both of them are probably better than our own present universe, anyway, so I don’t know what anyone could bitch about…

91. P Technobabble - November 21, 2009

77. cafe

Which concepts and technology are you referring to? It all made pretty good sense to me. And how many holes are there in the story? The only thing that bothered me was Kirk finding Spock Prime in the cave, which seemed awfully coincidental. Other than that, I thought it held together rather well, considering any story that involves black holes, time travel, and alternate universes is entirely fictional, anyway. In other words, how do you have a more “believable” time travel story, when the very concept of time travel is entirely theoretical in the first place?

92. dmduncan - November 21, 2009

I think whether or not you find Kirk and Spock’s encounter in the ice cave too coincidental depends very much on your view of how the universe works.

I thought that sequence was great, and I think it may also represent some of Bob and Alex’s own views of what is possible and how the universe works. The concept of destiny, for instance, was mentioned several times in the movie.

Whether you agree or disagree with it, it does represent an interesting and debatable philosophical position.

In the 2002 film adaption of HG Welles Time Machine, Alex goes back in time to try to save his fiancee’s life. When he manages to save her from the circumstances that killed her in their own time, she still ends up dying, but by different means—Alex then understands that she is going to die no matter how many times he saves her, if not by one means, then by another, and he gives up trying.

It wasn’t coincidence that she still died—she was destined to.

In other words, if we imagine a pathway of her life into the future represented by a single line, and that line is intersected by a series of other lines, each one representing different actions that will result in a different mode of death each time, then by preventing the death represented by the first point of intersection does not save her life permanently, it merely saves it for a brief time until the point where the next line, representing another death causing action, intersects her future.

Save her from that death, and yet another one awaits in the new future that your saving her opened up.

In the case of Star Trek you can replace the death of Emma with the rising of James Kirk, in which case his meeting with Spock as the means whereby he finally gets to become Captain was no coincidence, but merely another causal pathway that leads in this new universe to the same result as the one achieved in the Prime universe.

And what better way to push the imagination than through science fiction or philosophy?

If you think it’s just a silly coincidence, you aren’t thinking about it enough.

At the very least, even if you end up disagreeing with it, it isn’t something obviously absurd, because it does offer mind stretching possibilities to consider before you can say that with any honesty.

93. Charles Trotter - November 21, 2009

Nice! Just one thing, though — most of Bourne Ultimatum takes place prior to the end of Bourne supremacy, not Bourne Identity. :)

94. Jim Nightshade - November 21, 2009

#74 Mark F, I hear ya bud…that memory wall sequence coulda been awesome…but since it wasnt added to Wises directors edition I doubt it ever will be…

95. P Technobabble - November 21, 2009

92. dmduncan wrote:
“…I think whether or not you find Kirk and Spock’s encounter in the ice cave too coincidental depends very much on your view of how the universe works. I thought that sequence was great, and I think it may also represent some of Bob and Alex’s own views of what is possible and how the universe works. The concept of destiny, for instance, was mentioned several times in the movie…”

I also thought it was a great sequence in terms of what Spock Prime needed to say to Kirk. I also understand your point about destiny… I believe destiny implies a certain predisposition that things will happen in a certain way, as if there is some kind of grand design. On the other hand, the very nature of a “multi-verse” implies there are an infinite number of possible outcomes, or pathways. It’s paradoxical.
Yes, it is certainly possible, in terms of the story, that Kirk finding Spock was one of the pathways that opened up because of the intervention of Nero and Spock Prime into “this” timeline.
At the same time — in terms of storytelling — I felt this was an instance that should have had a bit more explanation… why, of all the places in the galaxy, Kirk would have been stranded on the very planet Spock Prime had been stranded to. I don’t necessarily think it’s a “silly” coincidence, but it is coincidental on the surface, and we don’t get any information beyond that. I’m not complaining about the scene because I understand the necessity of the scene, and Spock Prime is something of a catalyst attempting to “correct” the timeline to whatever degree possible… as when he tells Kirk something like, “We must get you back on the bridge of the Enterprise.”
There are so many bizarre coincidences in life, and they are very real. When you are writing a piece of fiction, coincidence is something you try to avoid because sometimes the audience can only suspend disbelief so far. I believe I do understand the purpose of the cave scene, however. Of course, the very fact that we are dealing with a paradoxical situation does allow for many possible explanations. In any case, my questioning of Kirk finding Spock Prime in the cave did not spoil my enjoyment of the film at all.

96. dmduncan - November 21, 2009

@95: While we are on the subject of coincidences, Eric Bana, let it be remembered, starred in not one, but two movies this year in which he was the time traveler!

“At the same time — in terms of storytelling — I felt this was an instance that should have had a bit more explanation… why, of all the places in the galaxy, Kirk would have been stranded on the very planet Spock Prime had been stranded to. I don’t necessarily think it’s a “silly” coincidence, but it is coincidental on the surface, and we don’t get any information beyond that.”

Well, the Enterprise and the Narada were both in the stellar neighborhood. Nero deposited Spock Prime on Delta Vega BEFORE he destroyed Vulcan, and Spock deposited Kirk on Delta Vega afterwards.

Both ship’s captains deposited their people on a livable planet that had to be near the same place where both ships were located, which was the same star system. The Enterprise was on its way out of the system, and otherwise, Spock could not have seen the destruction of Vulcan in the sky. So that they ended up on the same planet doesn’t strain credibility. That they found each other seems more of a coincidence.

But there’s a problem: The baggage we carry with us into the film. In other words, we KNOW Kirk, and Spock, and Scotty are all going to end up together, but we don’t know the circumstances surrounding their meeting.

Now, what if Nero marooned a troublesome female crew member named Tamara on Delta Vega, and instead of Scotty there was a guy named Bruce, and they all met up together. Would we then say it was too much of a coincidence?

I don’t think so.

Is it, in other words, the fact that persons a, b, and c all met on the surface of Delta Vega that makes some say it was too much of a coincidence, or that those persons were Kirk, Spock, and Scotty?

And if it’s the latter, why would it matter what the quantities of a, b, and c are?

If it wouldn’t seem coincidental if Kirk met Tamara and Bruce instead of Spock and Scotty, why does it seem coincidental when he meets Spock and Scotty?

I would argue that it’s because we expect them to get together, as they did in the Prime universe, but since this is a new universe it would seem unlikely for them to find each other in the same way—hence, it would be too coincidental for them to get together some other way, which brings up the point I made about The Time Machine in that altering an event at one point along an individual’s time-pathway merely pushes what is inevitable, by completely different circumstances, a little further into the future along the same pathway; the circumstances under which Kirk becomes Captain will change, but it’s still going to happen, just like Emma is still going to die, and it won’t be “coincidental” when she dies again in a completely different way. The fact that Spock Prime and Scotty are part of the impetus in getting him where he is going to be, is relevant and “too coincidental” if you compare the new way they got together to some hypothetical way in the Prime universe they first got together, and in that measurement you think it’s impossible for them to get together by multiple but completely different pathways, which is exactly what The Time Machine example disputes.

But that’s the fun of it. That’s the part that stretches your thinking. That’s the Twilight Zone metaphysics showing up in Star Trek, as much as it shows up in our own world. It’s not fake, it’s real. A 23rd century universe where nothing weird happens would be fake. So I had no problems with that scene, and I am actually grateful that they didn’t try to “technobabble” an explanation, because it let’s me have fun thinking about it without getting any solid answer from Bob.

97. Kirk's Girdle - November 21, 2009

There was supposedly a conversation in the cave about the role of fate and predestination in events. One could argue that Spock and Nero both being sent back through time was destiny’s way of balancing out. Nero arrived initially to alter the timeline, whereas Spock arrived later to help set it back on course (at least as it applies to Kirk).

98. Trekenstein - November 21, 2009

#96 – “I would argue that it’s because we expect them to get together”.

Most people I’ve spoken to who knew little about the franchise prior to seeing the film also found it far too full of coincidences. They definitely enjoyed themselves and found a new appreciation for Star Trek, but nevertheless offered that criticism almost universally.

While your theory might apply to the original fans, it doesn’t apply to a wide audience who have no such expectations. Now perhaps everyone I heard this from are unintelligent couch potatoes who have no interest in expanding their minds and prefer their entertainment to be mashed up and spoon fed to them, but they are also part of the same new audience responsible for Star Trek’s unparalleled resuscitation.

99. dmduncan - November 21, 2009

@97: That’s another way of putting it, but some people want more detailed explanations than that. If you start graphing out what I’m talking about on paper, with lines radiating from a central point and then a thousand such points with all the radiating lines intersecting at millions of points, and then you eliminate one line to see how it affects any given line in the pattern, or the entire pattern itself, the possibilities become mid bogglingly large—too large to grasp. The criticism of what is too coincidental then largely becomes meaningless.

One of the fine things about speculative fiction is that it pushes the imagination. How boring to build stories only on what is currently known to be true. What kind of lunkheaded criticism against the genre would that be?

Example: Hyperspace was imagined in 1930’s SF writing, where it was just a plot device, like red matter, having no scientific theory to support it. But with theories of a multiverse, it suddenly acquired more respect as the interstices between universes where normal physics did not apply. So you might be able to jump to hyperspace, travel faster than light, and pop back into your universe light years away (that is different from warp travel, by the way).

100. Kirk's Girdle - November 21, 2009

Well, don’t forget these guys are Star Wars fans. I’ve always been a little skeptical of how Luke lost power and crash landed on Dagobah within walking distance of Yoda’s hut. Then again, that whole series is full of ridiculous coincidences – especially when you get to the prequels.

101. Anthony Pascale - November 21, 2009

G,

RE: prequel to the prequel

I can’t speak for Damon or Bob, but I do know these guys like non-linear storytelling. Just look at Lost for god’s sake. And how many episodes of Alias started with some big action scene then cut to ‘two weeks earlier’, which is how Abrams, Orci and Kurtzman did MI3.

I can easily imagine them throwing a scene into the movie that takes place sometime during the ST09, like maybe during the 25 year gap. However, they are going to set the movie after st09. Abrams has talked about how the film will explore the characters more now that they have got to know eachother, something you could not do in a ‘prequel to the prequel’

so relax. What damon was saying is that they like to play around with the audience’s perception of time. I am surprised they didn’t do more of that with ST09. It is probably the most linear thing these guys ever did.

102. dmduncan - November 21, 2009

98: Not my experience at all. Four people I know who are now fans did not care about that at all, and the fans I did speak to about it didn’t mark it as an issue. I suspect most people who liked the movie don’t find it an issue. Just like me.

And every person can take away from the film what the degree of effort they put into thinking about it produces. That’s a reason why it’s so good, because it works successfully on multiple levels. If you don’t want to think about any of the implications, you don’t have to. The film works great as a SF action adventure. And Bob’s not going to come over to your house and twist your arm. But if you want to, it gives you room to stretch your legs.

And that’s exactly what the best episodes of TOS did for me. Heck, I STILL think about the premise portrayed in Wink of an Eye.

103. dmduncan - November 21, 2009

And your reaction to those “coincidences” is actually a confession of your own beliefs of what you think is possible and of how the universe operates.

When faced with your own incredulous reactions you can do one of two things: Laugh at the coincidences as impossible, or get curious about why you reacted the way you did and quite possibly discover something about yourself you weren’t quite aware of in the process.

And that’s what good art does—it provokes a reaction. The choice is yours what to do with it. Get off the couch and reflect on it, or sink deeper into the cushions and unconsciousness.

104. MarkF - November 21, 2009

#94 I did not mean adding in to TMP but as an inspiration for a similar situation where Kirk and Spock do exploring. It’s like the Star Wars prequels using conceptual ideas from the original movies like a battle on the wookie planet, a painting of a blockade runner in a docking bay.

Since casting ideas are being thrown around how about Summer Glau as a vulcan or romulan (Saavik?).

105. dmduncan - November 21, 2009

And when I say “you can do one of two things,” I don’t mean your range of possible responses to the SCENE is laughter or not laughter, I mean your range of possible responses is to react to what you’ve seen and then not think about it, or react to your own reaction.

106. somethoughts - November 21, 2009

When you play the slots and hit 777 do you say that is impossible?

Do you cry foul or say poker is rigged when someone hits a Royal Flush?

If it is probable chances are it will become reality sooner or later.

Heck we are here aren’t we? I mean what are the odds of having a planet far enough from the sun to allow for water, with a atmosphere that sustains life and everything is perfectly balanced from the trees to the bacteria. Grand design or chance?

107. Blake Powers - November 21, 2009

The fact that Arthur C. Clarke is in borci list of things to read makes me so much happier. Rendezvous with Rama is one of the greatest books I have ever read and I would love to see that influence in Star Trek.

108. Michael - November 21, 2009

Well that was 9 minutes(of non-information) of my life I won’t get back!

109. dmduncan - November 21, 2009

98: “While your theory might apply to the original fans, it doesn’t apply to a wide audience who have no such expectations.”

The point regarding when something seems like too much of a coincidence in this film is not whether you know how they originally got together, but when something happens that seems unlikely to you.

And what seems unlikely to you is going to seem that way because of the prejudices you bring to the movie. I mean, why did I not even once have the reaction that it was too coincidental?

Well, I’m not making the same assumptions about the universe that those who find it too coincidental are, that is for sure. (And a movie, by the way, about time travel and branching alternate realities is the perfect vehicle in which to introduce such timeline related “coincidences” as those we saw; it’s fitting, appropriate, whereas it isn’t appropriate in a junk movie like 2012 which has nothing to do with the same ideas, and yet which had so many more coincidences than Star Trek).

And why would their getting together in the way that they did in the movie seem unlikely at all—too coincidental—unless you expected something different? So you confess what you expect by your reactions, nor do you need a background in Trekology to cause your skepticism.

(Even though you don’t know how they originally came together, you DO know from the movie itself that an “alternate reality” was created when Nero went back in time and changed the expected unfolding of events from that time forward into the future, so knowing little else but what the movie tells you, you still know that how they got together during this movie was not how they got together in the prime universe timeline, which is really all you need to play the skeptic card).

So, fan or no, we often have expectations of which we are not aware, and which cause the reactions we have.

110. somethoughts - November 21, 2009

Hi Boborci,

quick question regarding Star Trek 2009;

When Spock (Quinto) tells Pike the energy pulse from the drilling rig is emitting some sort of communications interference with Star Fleet, how did Star Fleet get the distress call from Vulcan regarding the geological problems in the first place? The Narada activated the drill and energy pulse and then Vulcan sent the distress call, but according to Spock(Quinto) when the drill is deployed and activated it jams all communications? Was this already pointed out and answer provided?

Thanks in advance for clarification.

111. montgomery - November 21, 2009

So we’re debating the location along the timeline for the next movie? As long as the bulk of it is going forward, I actually really hope they continue using flashbacks and events from the past to develop these characters and fill in a colourful and exciting story — as was done so brilliantly in Lost (season 1). That’s my two cents.

112. T'Cal - November 21, 2009

Let’s get Joel Schumacher to direct it! Then he can add all the good guys and all the bad guys into one movie because more is ALWAYS better. Then we’ll see not only Kirk and crew, but Finnegan, Gary Mitchell, Khan, Kor, Chang, and V’ger. It’ll be awesome!

113. dmduncan - November 21, 2009

110: “When Spock (Quinto) tells Pike the energy pulse from the drilling rig is emitting some sort of communications interference with Star Fleet, how did Star Fleet get the distress call from Vulcan regarding the geological problems in the first place?”

Bob already answered that in the Q&A: Interstellar warp speed traveling homing pigeons.

Just kidding.

I’m not Bob Orci, but that’s a very good question that got me thinking too!

I’d say it was probably some proprietary or ad hoc Vulcan technology rapidly put together out of desperation at the Vulcan Science Academy (those Vulcans are smart) capable of weakly penetrating the interference— and a smidgen of luck that the message got received at Starfleet.

What does Bob say?

114. Spock with a Crowbar - November 21, 2009

I’m not just saying this because Bob chimed in.

#39,

Bill Murray as a captain? Brilliant!!!!!!! I’ve never thought of that before, but it would be phenomenal. Few actors have such a subtle gravity, even during all the funny stuff.

Failing that, I’d like to see him in Trek in any capacity.

115. boborci - November 22, 2009

110: “When Spock (Quinto) tells Pike the energy pulse from the drilling rig is emitting some sort of communications interference with Star Fleet, how did Star Fleet get the distress call from Vulcan regarding the geological problems in the first place?”

———-

It was a fake transmission from Nero’s ship. A trap. Hence the Romulan accent that Uhura detects.

116. boborci - November 22, 2009

Love the coincidence debate. We know in the Prime Universe that they all met, right? Who is to say Kirk didn’t meet Scotty on an ice planet during a mission? Just like, who is to say that Kirk and Spock didn’t meet in the Prime Universe when Spock accused Kirk of cheating on the Kobayashi Maru.

Also, back to good ole’ quantum mechanics — theory says some things are more probable than others, and in the multiple universe interpretation of the theory, THERE ARE MANY MORE UNIVERSES OF THAT WHICH IS PROBABLE THAN THAT WHICH IS NOT. Since we already have the Prime universe, we assume it is a universe with a high probability of existing as it does, and therefore, there are PROBABLY many alternate universes very similar to it. No fate required with this theory.

117. somethoughts - November 22, 2009

#115

Very nice! Thanks for the clarification boborci :) Those Romulans are sneaky!

I should have known, thinking back to when Kirk (Pine) was telling Pike, “We are flying into a trap!”

I guess what confused me was when Ayel was worried and ran to Nero and told him 7 Federation ships was on their way and Nero looked worried/surprised. Nevertheless, I accept what you say and keep rocking!

If you can do a flashback scene for the sequel and show us Kirks initial solution/first attempt at the KM simulation, that would be awesome.

118. screaming satellite - November 22, 2009

flashfoward scene = Shatner?

119. fansince66 - November 22, 2009

Hi Mr. Orci,

I wonder if other fans(new & old / young & old)feel the same way as I do,about ST:TMP.When it hit the big screen in ’79’,I was thrilled ST was brought back-to-life & on the BIG SCREEN for the 1st time.

I now own ALL the ST movies,EXCEPT that 1st one.It’s a mind-numbing snore-fest, in retrospect.Call me an idiot, or whatever,but I think an “exploration movie” along the lines of TMP would be a catastrophic failure.

just sayin’.

120. Dom - November 22, 2009

The transmission from Vulcan: I simply figured the Narada’s rig activated and started seismic activity. Communications from Vulcan became thready then completely failed. The blackout wasn’t instantaneous.

As for a series set prior to the main events of the movie, technically, if they were set after the Kelvin incident, the series would be an ‘interquel.’ If a series started, say five years after the Kelvin incident, Christopher Pike would be about 33 (based on Bruce Greenwood being 53 in the main part of ST09).

He could Captain of the Yorktown by then or even Captain of the Enterprise (maybe there was an Enterprise that looked closer to that of the The Cage and maybe Starfleet simply kept the same ‘NCC-1701′ designation after decommissioning it and building a new Enterprise and didn’t bother with the ‘-A’.)

You could do a series with a younger Captain Pike, Tyler, Boyce, Number One and so on quite easily, I’d have thought, even if you have to play a bit fast and loose with the exact dates in comparison with the old series. Then again, it’s a parallel universe, so what the hey!

I don’t know why people insist on demanding explanations for all the holes in the different iterations of Star Trek. Isn’t it fun making up your own ideas and discussing them with people who have different ideas? Why do we have to have definitive explanations?

121. fansince66 - November 22, 2009

P.S.,Mr. Orci,

An “exploration movie” along the lines of Master & Commander(with its’ Galapagos island moments),would be an outrageous success.

just sayin’

122. Dom - November 22, 2009

121. fansince66

Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World is one of the greatest Star Trek movies ever made IMHO!

123. Jim Nightshade - November 22, 2009

fansince66-yes even those of us who loved tmp realize its flaws and if mr orci and jj do decide to to lean in a similar direction they know not to make the mistakes-tmp was what it was for various reasons-last minute rushes to finish tmp in time,having to redo the effex, flaws in pacing of story,lack of characterization etc…were some of the problems-in one of the interviews bob orci stated he was one of those that enjoyed watching the enterprise for ten minutes when it was first revealed-I was the same way-after such a long wait it was a miracle to see the enterprise looking better than ever and her wonderful crew-i think an exploring/adventure style story could be done and still be popular with jj and orci and all behind it-another villain after revenge even khan i think would be too much the same thing yet again-i am hoping for something different-the writers do have a challenge-the story is always the hardest thing to come up with-best of luck and godspeed to roberto n alex! Go Boldly!

124. Dom - November 22, 2009

123. Jim Nightshade

i think one of the problems TMP has is the circumstances in which we first saw it. At the age of about 9 in 1984, I saw it on a top-loader VHS recorder, pan and scan on a 20-inch 4:3 TV on a reasonably bright Sunday afternoon.

Strangely enough, I couldn’t get much sense of grandeur from that. All I could see was a movie where nothing looked like the Star Trek I knew from the TV shows and the characters all seemed humourless and alienating (excuse the pun!)

I didn’t really appreciate TMP until I saw the Director’s Edition a few years ago. Someone who eventually gets to see the Director’s Edition on Blu-ray on a good-sized Full-HD TV will be very lucky if that’s their first ever viewing.

I still think TMP reflects its messy production and is a badly flawed film but it’s not hideous.

There are two things I really like about it:

1: It’s vast in terms of the scale of the menace, as V’Ger’s vessel utterly dwarfs the Enterprise. In fact, on a 20-inch 4:3 TV I couldn’t see the Enterprise in many of its fly-bys over the vessel.

2: It’s scary. Vejur is utterly alien. The sound FX are jarring and disturbing. The Ilea-droid is downright creepy. Vejur when revealed as Voyager 6 remains alien, not speaking in a comprehensible language and we don’t see what the Decker/Ilea/Vejur hybrid looks like. There’s no smiley alien wanting to give a liberal group hug to the crew. Essentially, Vejur is a big ****-off AI with a big spaceship that goes to Earth and holds the planet hostage until Kirk and Co manage to pay it off, then it leaves, barely giving the landing party a chance to get back to the ship.

125. Admiral_BlackCat - November 22, 2009

Anthony
“…they like to play around with the audience’s perception of time. I am surprised they didn’t do more of that with ST09. It is probably the most linear thing these guys ever did.”

The mind meld was completely non-linear thinking. Spock gave us a FLASHBACK into an alternate FUTURE. From Kirk’s perspective it was a flash forward into an alternate future. It maybe not be the “2 weeks earlier” but IMHO works better with playing around with the perception of time.

126. Admiral_BlackCat - November 22, 2009

boborci
STXI still suffers from “prequelitis” because we know they get together, and anything would have been seen as a coincidence. But I like that you tied into the idea of destiny as touched upon by Star Trek in the past.
But good call with Vulcan’s destruction. Destiny brings them together, but what is their fate?

127. dmduncan - November 22, 2009

@116: And I want to emphasize that the type of movie you guys wrote, dealing with issues of time and alternate realities is the appropriate vehicle in which something like Kirk meeting Spock Prime in an ice Cave would occur. It’s not out of place in this movie. It doesn’t feel (to me) too coincidental.

I think whoever it was who initially said that it was because the universe was trying to correct itself probably did more harm among the coincidence critics than good. And it was sharks smelling blood in the water after that.

And the point I am trying to make, without visual aids here, is that there may be multiple pathways to the same event. The number of possible confluences can be staggering. Maybe in the Prime universe Kirk does meet Scotty on an ice planet, BUT Kirk isn’t on that ice planet because Spock ejected him from the ship, but for a totally different reason, so that amongst all these universes there may be keystone events that are all the same (Kirk meeting Scotty on an ice planet, Kirk becoming captain) and yet they are the same in different universes by different causal pathways, and in ST.09 we merely saw a different causal pathway which involved Spock Prime, because Nero caused an alternate reality and changed the linkages and confluence points in a possibilities network.

Further, both Spock and Nero made DECISIONS to cast away Kirk and Spock Prime on another planet. For different reasons, yes, but they did make DECISIONS. If Spock didn’t decide to eject Kirk, Kirk would not have met Spock Prime that way; and if Nero hadn’t decided to maroon Spock Prime, again they wouldn’t have met that way.

So, far from being a just series of coincidental natural events, their meeting was also due to choices Spock and Nero made which put both those men on the same planet in close proximity to each other, choices which they did not have to make, but did.

Also, both Spock and Nero wanted their castaways to survive, and the surface of that planet was quite dangerous. How do you know they weren’t marooned so close to each other (and that the Starfleet base wasn’t put exactly where it was) because it was the safest part of that planet, thus even further increasing the odds of a meeting? Further still, Nero would have expected that Spock would try to make his way to that Starfleet outpost, as the same thing could be expected of Kirk, regardless of what that recording in his pod told him to do, thus sending both of them towards the same place, again possibly increasing the odds of a meeting.

128. dmduncan - November 22, 2009

@125: Oh cool: What if Kirk picked up more about the future in that mind meld than Spock intended him to have and more than we were shown in the movie? Stuff that sunk into his subconscious and slowly bubbles up to the surface?

129. Dom - November 22, 2009

Funnily enough I hoped for a brief 2-frames-per-character barrage of images of the original cast as seen in STVI to hit Kirk in the last second before the end of the mindmeld!

130. dmduncan - November 22, 2009

That has good acting possibilities for Chris Pine written all over it.

131. Trekenstein - November 22, 2009

#128 – that would be horrible. Now Kirk has an edge over everyone and everything because he’s seen the future and knows what’s coming? That weakens Kirk as a character. The reason Kirk works is because every unknown situation he encounters he makes a gut decision tempered by his trusted advisors and has the balls to act on that decision. He embody’s the best of us. What couldn’t any of us do with knowledge of the future, without any of the character traits Kirk otherwise brings to the table?

132. Dom - November 22, 2009

131. Trekenstein

When you flick through a book, you don’t remember every tiny detail, but a few things will stick in your memory. I suspect something similar could have happened to Jim!

133. screaming satellite - November 22, 2009

129 – i was half expecting the Prime Timeline alternate future to play more of a part at the climax beyond the ‘I know your face…from earths history..’ line

e.g. Kirk on a computer consol or something and catching a fleeting glimpse of his alternate future but cant take it all in before all the fighting starts ….or Spock 2.0 catching a glimpse of something in Spock Primes ships before he had to beam out

when Kirk and Spock 2.0s go over to the Narada and aboard Spock Primes ship they were basically going into the ‘Prime Universe’ and messing about with TNG stuff…. (anyone with it on BR know if that was the Vulcan First Contact ship next to the jellyfish or was that just a rumour?)

134. Mr Phil - November 22, 2009

Hi Bob,
I remember hearing a few years back how there was talk of Tom Hanks being in a Trek film as he was a fan. I watched Road to Perdition (again) last week, he’s such a great actor and he would be a massive audience draw for Trek either in a main role or a cameo.
It’s always easy to throw around big names for casting choices, but it’s one my dream castings. And I’m sure he’d love slapping on some heavy prostethics :-)

135. P Technobabble - November 22, 2009

116. boborci & 127. dmduncan

I love the coincidence debate too, in the sense that I love thinking about the kinds of questions that quantum matters, in general, have produced. Some physicist (can’t remember his name) said something like, “If quantum physics doesn’t shock you, then you don’t understand it.” I completely admit I don’t understand it to any immense degree, but what I do understand sets my brain reeling, and I begin to think, “If THIS world is made of THAT, then what the hell is ALL of it? The line between quantum physics and mysticism is becoming increasingly blurred.

136. Trekenstein - November 22, 2009

#109 – There’s a lot of Freudian psychoanalysis of the audience going on here. And a lot of arguments explaining events in the film which can only be subscribed to as “fannon”. Anything can be explained in a film, even a bad one, and most often logically. But I don’t think it is fair to put the entire burden of understanding the film on the audience. At best you and I are offering anecdotal evidence for our observations and opinions and much of yours is your reaction alone. While I have only offered my input as a consideration, you seem to offer yours as an absolute. And that’s all well and good, you are entitled to believe that. But in my opinion, the filmmaker must accept some responsibility.

To say, everything in this film make sense if you are willing to work to understand it, takes all of the burden off the creators and puts them above critique. To say critics need a good turn on a psychologists couch to overcome their prejudices really elevates the filmmaker to an exalted status. Obviously this film did a lot of things right to be so well received. But it is hardly above criticism. Most people go to see a movie to fill a couple of hours of their lives with some simple escapism. They will likely see it only once, even if they loved it. And if they loved it, if something doesn’t make sense to them, then it didn’t work on all levels. The goal of a filmmaker should be to make something work on all levels (at least for a film like Star Trek). If they fall short, any criticism that requires an elaborate explanation to resolve should at least be considered – not dismissed as the viewer’s problem. And simply because there is an elaborate explanation to resolve the smallest concern, doesn’t mean the explanation will be any more satisfactory or above criticism itself.

As for coincidences, there are many more strange coincidences in life than have ever likely been presented on screen. The phrase “if you made a movie about it, nobody would believe” is rightly applied to some of them. And that’s the situation here. At some point, a movie has to fulfill the expectations (or “prejudices”) of the audience. Does the filmmaker have to pander to them? No, but there is an obligation to respect them even if they desire to challenge their preconceptions. Insulting your audience by implying they need to work harder to understand their film is not the way to fill seats.

137. P Technobabble - November 22, 2009

I have also been wondering what it will mean to the Star Trek universe to now contain 2 versions of Mr. Spock? Will they continue to interract with each other? Does Spock Prime’s knowledge (from his own universe) have any relevance to Alt-Spock, in this new universe? Will Alt-Spock, and even Sarek, be affected by the presence of Spock Prime, just knowing he is there?

138. dmduncan - November 22, 2009

131: “#128 – that would be horrible.”

Nope. It would be cool. Dom at 132 has the right idea about how to do it.

Besides that, it’s an alternate universe and as Spock points out in ST.09 you CAN’T predict exactly how it’s going to turn out in THIS universe, so then how does what Kirk gleans from the mind meld transference affect how Kirk reacts when something similar begins unfolding in this new timeline? It might actually be a hindrance that he has to overcome rather than a help.

@135: I think that paraphrases Neils Bohr. Here’s an even funnier quote attributed to Erwin Schrodinger: “I don’t like it [quantum mechanics], and I am sorry I ever had anything to do with it.”

136: “To say critics need a good turn on a psychologists couch to overcome their prejudices really elevates the filmmaker to an exalted status.”

That’s not even close to anything I said or meant. I think you are conflating the different levels a piece of art works on. As I clearly stated, you really don’t have to think about it at any deeper level, and the film works fine as it is. But if you want to it ALSO provides you with levels to explore and as is the case with any piece of art, even a painting on a wall, the choice is yours what to do with your reaction. You may not go any deeper into it, which is what I think most casual observers of this movie do, or you may choose otherwise. Art gives you the choice and reflects you to yourself; it provokes reactions and by doing so shows you yourself. But although it does present you with an opportunity, it can’t force you to do more.

And art does not have to be great to provoke reactions. It doesn’t even have to be art, as most often than not it’s peoples own experiences and interactions which provide those same opportunities. However, when the art comes to you in a form that you love—which as ST fans it does here—then it inspires you to think about the things portrayed in a way that you would just dismiss if it came in the form of something that you thought was just junk.

“Insulting your audience by implying they need to work harder to understand their film is not the way to fill seats.”

I see things just the opposite. Having an expectation of your audience to have to work a bit to access the deeper layers of the story and its implications isn’t an insult but a compliment to the audience’s intelligence that you think they can get it. All they did was include intellectual Easter eggs in the plot for those who wanted to look for them. Does NOT mean the film doesn’t work unless you find the eggs. It does.

And for me that’s actually part of the fun of the experience. Heck no I don’t want it all spelled out clearly for me. No way, man. Give me something to do too. That’s what I’m paying for. And that’s exactly what TOS made me do.

139. dmduncan - November 22, 2009

Like Kirk running around and repeatedly getting shot in the neck with a syringe unexpectedly, the repetitious and sudden eruption of Spock-memories in his consciousness may be a great annoyance that screws with Kirk’s head and throws him off balance, giving him yet one more issue to deal with at a moment when he doesn’t need any extra trouble.

140. Trekenstein - November 22, 2009

#132 – and how does that mitigate my concerns? If you flick through a book and learn who a murderer is, then what happens when you sit down and read it? You know what’s coming and it lessens the impact. Kirk now knows about Khan lets say … he doesn’t know what i means, but that information influences how he handles the situation from the moment he meets Khan. Therefore Space Seed is completely dissipated before the story even gets started. But as you say, it all depends on what specific glances Kirk takes away from the meld.

Anything can be worked into a plot device any way you want, but giving Kirk glimpses of the future which can affect his decisions is detrimental to building the character. Just like having Prime Spock hanging around to volunteer info about the future which may still apply here. It’s just a bad idea. Having the information cause conflict because it makes him second guess himself is an interesting plot element, but what does it ultimately get you in overall character development? I personally don’t want to see any more interference form the past or the future. Let’s let these characters live in the present and make their own decisions for a change without having to contemplate destiny or fate. They’ve done time travel, let’s not turn this into ST:Enterprise.

141. Dom - November 22, 2009

140. Trekenstein: ‘and how does that mitigate my concerns? If you flick through a book and learn who a murderer is, then what happens when you sit down and read it? You know what’s coming and it lessens the impact.’

To stretch the metaphor, rather than discovering the murderer, how about if you flick through a book and know who is going to die, yet can’t seem to stop it from happening?

I suspect Spock Prime will try to lie reasonably low in the new universe. After all, politically and militarily, the 23rd century was much more dangerous and the Federation’s borders far more exposed than in the Prime Universe’s 24th century. I suspect Spock Prime would do the logical thing and fully disclose all details of the future known to him to the surviving Vulcan elders and possibly Section 31, as otherwise they’ll likely kidnap him and mindrape him to get every bit of information possible.

I mean, c’mon, you’ve got a guy from 150 years in the future who’s seen a different version of history, who knows the Borg will wipe out millions of people, who knows the whalesong probe and Vejur are on their way and you wouldn’t give them a heads-up. I mean, this is a massively compromised timeline anyway, so it’s not like it can make things any worse.

As much as anything, Vulcan’s lost future would be something important to their race!

So does anyone think we’ll get a Shatnerverse novel detailing Kirk Prime, McCoy Prime and Scotty Prime following Spock Prime into the new film’s timeline? Imagine Karl Urban’s McCoy and Deforest Kelley’s McCoy meeting: ‘Dammit man! I’m a Doctor, not a doppelganger!’ ;)

142. Son of a Maui Portagee - November 22, 2009

96. dmduncan proposed “Now, what if Nero marooned a troublesome female crew member named Tamara on Delta Vega, and instead of Scotty there was a guy named Bruce, and they all met up together. Would we then say it was too much of a coincidence?”

Most definitely too much of a coincidence – in fact even more than the original exposition. How did Tamara, a Romulan miner from 129 years forward in the future deposited with no tech, know there was an active Federation outpost within a long trek from the cave?

I think the other thing making the too coincidental bells ring in peoples’ minds is Kirk’s trek from the pod to the cave. That really sets up in the mind that the odds are more likely on that planet that one of them would end up dead before meeting.

And what kind of Federation big shiny new spaceship has an escape pod,, with onboard AI incapable of safely landing the thing within a hairsbreadth of a facility on a Federation planet more capable of sustaining its inhabitant’s life than Kirk’s landing spot? A facility which turns out to be a Federation outpost that more than likely has a landing pad (The facility has to have been there at least 25 years for Spock Prime to be certain of its existence in this universe.) more able to handle less than ideal landings as well.

143. Son of a Maui Portagee - November 22, 2009

#98. Trekenstein overstated “While your theory might apply to the original fans, it doesn’t apply to a wide audience who have no such expectations. Now perhaps everyone I heard this from are unintelligent couch potatoes who have no interest in expanding their minds and prefer their entertainment to be mashed up and spoon fed to them, but they are also part of the same new audience responsible for Star Trek’s unparalleled resuscitation.”

Those of us who actively participated in keeping the patient alive after it was first declared most sincerely dead in 1969 might take umbrage at your contention that whatever happened in 2009 was “unparalleled”. In fact, Paramount would most likely have not even bothered if they hadn’t the expectation that it could have been “paralleled”.

144. luke montgomery - November 22, 2009

great interview. Learn how to hold a camera on the subject’s face.

145. Son of a Maui Portagee - November 22, 2009

124. Dom

“I still love my movies to be seen in the cinema. That’s where they’re meant to be shown.” – Robert Wise, Director

I think the majority bad rap against TMP comes from those who were only introduced to it on a format for which it was never intended.

It was never for the small screen. During its initial run it came out on 70mm as its FX were every much the immersive experience that 2001 before it was.

This is not a movie that’s going to be appreciated on your iPod.

And before everyone tries to draw analogies to this year’s IMAX. JJ for purposeful artistic reasons mastered his movie entirely onto 35mm and the BIG IMAX presentations were blown up and transferred from those 35mm masters onto the larger film needed for those presentations. TMP’s FX footage was all done on 65mm and the 70mm prints were made from those and the 35mm live production footage.

I’m not even certain the redone FX are up to that experience:

http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117916654.html

but I look forward to finding out definitively one day.

146. Son of a Maui Portagee - November 22, 2009

#128. dmduncan enthused “@125: Oh cool: What if Kirk picked up more about the future in that mind meld than Spock intended him to have and more than we were shown in the movie? Stuff that sunk into his subconscious and slowly bubbles up to the surface?”

Perhaps you might be interested in my “award winning” comment that I posted to SCIFIWIRE on 11/20/09?

http://scifiwire.com/2009/11/the-hottest-stories-and-b-7.php

“How about unbeknownst to Kirk he took more out of the Spock Prime mind fusion than he was supposed? He miraculously gets out of scrapes like Kirk Prime but on a subconscious level he pits Prime’s antagonists against each other in accomplishing that. We get mashups:

1. Nomad versus The Doomsday Machine
2. M-5 versus Landru & Baal
3. Norman versus Ruk
4. Khan versus the Kelvins
5. Apollo versus Plato’s Stepchildren
6. Talosians versus the Melkotians
7. V’ger versus The Whale Probe
8. Janice Lester versus Marta

Epic confrontations! Twice the BOOM!”—Son of a Maui Portagee

147. dmduncan - November 22, 2009

140: “Anything can be worked into a plot device any way you want, but giving Kirk glimpses of the future which can affect his decisions is detrimental to building the character.”

Not at all. That’s because those glimpses are not of his own future. “The” future loses it’s meaning in a MWI series of alternate universes.

“It’s just a bad idea. Having the information cause conflict because it makes him second guess himself is an interesting plot element, but what does it ultimately get you in overall character development?”

Well, just like any challenge that the hero faces and which threatens to ruin a desired outcome, it’s something the hero has to struggle against to overcome. In SF stories the things that the hero has to overcome often follow from extremely unusual and atypical events. Indeed, it might also be a way of naturally inserting William Shatner into the film. And it could be done without bringing in Leonard Nimoy again. The more I think about your question the more answers I could probably give to it.

142: “Most definitely too much of a coincidence – in fact even more than the original exposition. How did Tamara, a Romulan miner from 129 years forward in the future deposited with no tech, know there was an active Federation outpost within a long trek from the cave?”

The same question applies to Spock or anyone else, but it’s irrelevant. Who cares how, and why do you care? I can come up with several means of answering each of your questions, but the answers really do not matter, because you are actually making my point for me in that you are stating all sorts of disappointed expectations to support your position that it’s too much of a coincidence, but not working just as hard to explain how it might happen without being too coincidental.

That’s also the point I was making about what art makes you do, and how you have the choice to look exclusively at the film OR HOW you are looking at the film, which in turn can actually modify your initial position about the film itself and how you see it, rather than just maintaining a static position.

It’s really not the writer’s job to answer every question every person is capable of raising. That would be pointless.

I don’t know how much of a SF fan you are but if you are a fan of Dune you’ll see Frank Herbert do this trick often, where the technology is often hinted at, it’s described as if you have an understanding of what it is, so he includes a lexicon to give you a little more information, for example, about the Holtzman Effect, and how it is responsible for glowglobe, suspensor, and foldspace technologies. Sure, it’s hand wavy because it has to be. Otherwise he’d be describing how lightspeed travel really works, and of course no one really does know how to travel faster than light.

Lastly, the only difference between accepting Kirk running into Spock Prime in a cave, and accepting that the Enterprise can virtually move faster than light is the viewer’s own desire to be nitpicky about the former but not the latter, because there is plenty of room to be nitpicky about both.

Although one idea tests your tolerance for what you consider coincidental, the other tests your tolerance for stretching and even violating what we know. In both cases one’s BELIEFS are the things being tested. And if you can provide it in one case, you can provide it in the other. And if you can’t, the inconsistency belongs to you, not the film.

Art.

At the very least, look at the discussions the movie is causing here. A stupid movie? I think not.

148. dmduncan - November 22, 2009

The only movies in which you play a passive rather than an active role are movies in which you fall asleep.

So the question isn’t should the writers have expectations of the audience, but how much expectation is appropriate for them to have?

But “appropriate” can’t be defined in a vacuum; it’s relative to some objective you have, e.g., in the view from the box office it’s preferable that you not have a one-size-fits-all single-layer movie. In the interest of filling seats you want your movie to have as wide an appeal as possible, which means appealing to people who like to think as well as those who merely want to be entertained while expending minimal thought-energy.

Judging by the box office, Star Trek did well enough in that regard. Not only was it a critical success, but a box office success as well.

Let’s contrast Star Trek to another SF film: 2001: A Space Odyssey. Brilliant film. Not without flaws, but still brilliant. Also, a single-layer one-size-fits-all movie. It was like a video game that has a one level of difficulty setting: Hard. Because if you weren’t very active in that film you had no idea what was going on, and even afterwards you had plenty of homework to do and a novelization to read to completely understand what the heck you just saw.

But because Star Trek wasn’t as complicatedly simplistic as 2001, it didn’t have that problem. It appeals to different members of the audience on different levels and works well on all levels at the same time. And I think you really get a sense of that even if you can’t put words to it.

Except for some people who are so cranky that it wasn’t exactly what they expected, that they can’t feel anything towards it but their own disappointment.

I feel bad for those folks, and if I had Gem from The Empath (episode 67, TOS), I’d point her in their directions.

149. Stephan - November 22, 2009

@boborci:

Since the name Bill Murray has been dropped, whom I would appreciate by the way, I have to add Tom Hanks to the list. I know, he is a fan of Trek and it would draw in the audience here in Germany because Germans love Tom Hanks and his movies!

Greetings and thanks for a great Star Trek movie!

Stephan

150. somethoughts - November 22, 2009

I bet Bill Murray could pull of a 5min scene of Mudd in the next Star Trek

151. dmduncan - November 22, 2009

Bill Murray and Tom Hanks in any capacity in the film would be cool. As would Harrison Ford and Billy Dee Williams.

Not as seriously, I’d also like to see David Hasselhoff playing a drunken Captain Garth laying on the floor of the bridge eating a cheeseburger, with the crew locked out.

152. MarkF - November 22, 2009

A sequel that is a mix of TMP and The Voyage Home is what I would like to see. You get something like the movie “Contact”, with it’s cosmic sequences and passionate scientific/philosophical debates. But hopefully better than that movie turned out.

153. Charla a long time STAR TREK FAN - November 22, 2009

Wow you all have some great thoughts!!! I love the

#88 NO MEGAN FOX- No class here- wouldn’t deserve to be in the same room with the Star Trek crew! She is meant to be eye candy and the way she was depicted in the cheesy poses in Transformers screams that.

I think most of us women just rolled our eyes with most of her shots. It is so obvious why she is on set. I liked Transformers and would have liked it more if not for the cliche roles that I was expected to believe.

Have a beautiful woman in the movie, but make her role valuable beyond that of eye candy for men! Like Uhura. (Sorry guys, JJ and crew, girls LOVE sci-fi too but not when it makes us women just there for boobs and butt!)

154. Charla a long time STAR TREK FAN - November 22, 2009

OOPS! I was interupted on my previous comment and didn’t finish LOL I was going to say I like the suggestions of possible story lines and actors. There are some great imaginations here!

155. dmduncan - November 22, 2009

Just watched the casting part of the Blueray, and man the actors all just look happy to be there and like they all really enjoy each others company, like a solid team. The planets were in alignment when they sent out the casting notice. I mean, talk about weird coincidences—finding such fitting actors for the roles and who work well together was extraordinary.

And Bob—JJ seems to love Bruce Greenwood so much that Bruce is going to be hanging around the set of the sequel anyway. So it’s only logical that you guys give him something cool to do in the movie itself. What a great character he turned Pike into. I would love to see him as a lasting part of the rebooted franchise.

156. dmduncan - November 22, 2009

@146: I think the basic idea is a good one. I didn’t think of any of the stuff you did, which shows how different people can take a premise and come up with lots of ways to run with it.

157. DonDonP1 - November 22, 2009

I say let Manny Coto, Bob & Alex and J.J. team up with CBS Television Studios to make a new “Star Trek” TV show, whether in a post-“Nemesis” prime timeline or the “Star Trek XI”-era alternate timeine.

158. Charla a long time STAR TREK FAN - November 23, 2009

157 OOH — Now that is what fans would love to see!

159. screaming satellite - November 23, 2009

153
i was half joking about fox…but i thought she would have that aloof quality that Number 1 had

160. doug_skywalker - November 23, 2009

@157-

great idea!

if they do the post-Nemesis, maybe they could actually film the Countdown comic as first few episodes or something, and then the rest of the series is about the aftermath of the Hobus star destroying Romulus, Spock’s disappearance, and what that means for the Federation. They could even get into the Klingons annexing Romulan territory and thus starting what was hinted at in ST: TNG All Good Things.

personally, i would LOVE to see a series about…wait for it…the adventures of Captain Robau, Lt. Commander Geroge Kirk and the intrepid crew of the USS Kelvin! only this seriesd would be set in the Prime universe, and we can see the rise of George Kirk, he interactions with his sons George Jr and Jim, his wife, and his stint as second in command of the USS Kelvin and eventually the USS Enterprise under Captain Robert April!

and the best part is, they can make this supposed ‘new series’ actually accesible to a new audience. i mean, that’s what’s hurt Trek ni the past, it’s the feeling that you can’t watch the show without having seen EVERYTHING before it.

161. dmduncan - November 23, 2009

I wouldn’t be watching any Trek TV show post TNG that mimics the TOS premise.

TOS did it best.

I wouldn’t mind a show set in the Star Trek universe, though.

I would love seeing a radical reboot of TOS on TV, completely separate from the movies, having its own sets and production design and Enterprise. But for various reasons, I doubt that will happen.

A TV show in the present that sets up the Eugenics Wars and ends with a bang could have a lot to say to us here and now about current politics and the misuse of science.

162. Bart - November 23, 2009

“There is something people come to expect from a sequel to a movie like this which is, bigger, badder, louder, more bad guys. I think the idea of saying ‘do we have to do that? Is there something else we can do that is off the beaten path?’”

THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! That’s the thing I hate most about sequels. God, I really believe Star Trek has been left in caring hands. I love these guys. I loved them before, but quotes like that just seal it with a kiss, lol

163. Charla a long time STAR TREK FAN - November 23, 2009

159- Ok your off the hook now! LOL :)

164. Chase - November 24, 2009

| Kurtzman will be augmented by producer Damon Lindelof.

Augmented… like Khan?

165. Trekenstein - November 24, 2009

#147 “you are actually making my point for me in that you are stating all sorts of disappointed expectations to support your position that it’s too much of a coincidence, but not working just as hard to explain how it might happen without being too coincidental.”

Star Trek fans do this all the time, it is called fannon. They come up with plausible explanations for the most absurd on-screen discrepancies, even if they are simple continuity problems. At least with this film it takes little effort to find the overt the coincidence, whereas it takes quite a bit more to justify some of them.

I suffer from no such problem. I took the film for what it was and had a perfectly enjoyable time watching it. But I certainly can see both sides of the coin and when people tell me they saw too many coincidences, I don’t tell them they need to work harder to enjoy the movie or learn to leave their negative baggage at the door. Instead I admit that parts of the film do expose holes which have no concrete explanations. One could also say rationalizing everything in the film is just as big a problem as finding fault with everything.

The bottom line for me is that the filmmakers cannot be above criticism. I certainly never suggested that they had a responsibility to answer every single question in story that a person may raise. But the vast majority of the questions raised here are pretty standard fair for ANY film. If the answers are not on screen, and there is still a reasonable question remaining about a basic story plot (as one might find in any film), then the filmmakers have failed on some level. Simply responding that all the answers are there if you are willing to work hard enough is not an acceptable answer. It takes ALL of the burden off the filmmakers and puts it all on the audience. Again, no one is saying they have to anticipate every question a person may have, but they must take some responsibility for some of it, especially the major plot holes that more than just a few fanatical die hards have raised.

And why do you keep bringing up box office? Just because a criticism has been voiced that there were too many coincidences doesn’t mean people didn’t otherwise like the film. The fact it did well does not justify problems with the story, unless you want to give the same pass to Transformers 2, 2012 and Moonlight, all of which will make much more money than Star Trek. And I think we all know, there is no comparison.

166. Gerchte ber ST Zukunft (6te und 7te Serie) - Seite 87 - SciFi-Forum - November 24, 2009

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167. doug_skywalker - November 24, 2009

@165-

Well put!

It’s funny you mention fannon and trying to come up with explainations for absurd stuff. For example, i was watching an episode from season 2, and Lt. Kyle had his typical red shirt and then inexplicably changed to a gold shirt. the answer for that is simple: a gaffe. they happen.

168. Son of a Maui Portagee - November 24, 2009

#167.

I prefer to think the reason was it just was not yet his time.

169. marianne - December 8, 2009

Hei, Orci, Kurtzman; please undo the destruction of Vulcan and future Romulus by the end of the 3rd movie, pretty please;-) ?

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