Harlan Ellison Wants To Help Out With Star Trek Sequel | TrekMovie.com
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Harlan Ellison Wants To Help Out With Star Trek Sequel November 24, 2009

by Anthony Pascale , Filed under: Star Trek Into Darkness,TOS , trackback

ellisonOnly a month after settling a lawsuit over Star Trek with CBS and Paramount, Harlan Ellison seems to want to make nice, and dive back in…as long as he gets paid, of course. In a couple of postings on his website the famously cantankerous science fiction author has said he would be interested in working with JJ Abrams on the Star Trek sequel.


Ellison Trek again?

Harlan Ellison has a long and rocky history with the Star Trek franchise. It started with the episode "City on the Edge of Forever" which is considered by many to be the best of the franchise. Ellison famously fell out with Gene Roddenberry over that episode over changes made to the script. After that they patched things up enough in the 70s for Ellison to be one of the writers to pitch an idea for the first Star Trek feature film. Most recently Ellison sued CBS and Paramount over royalties related to "City", and that suit was only recently settled.

In the last week it was suggested (and debated) by some fans on HarlanEllison.com that Harlan might want to get involved with Trek again. After some debate, the man himself weighed in with an unequivocal statement affirming that he would certainly be interested.

From HarlanEllison.com:


I would jump at the chance to work with the inordinately-talented J.J. Abrams on a new STAR TREK film. Yes, I would likely try to steer him toward the original film idea I was asked to pitch, by the late Gene Roddenberry and a production exec whose name I have blissfully flensed from memory (but he had been, if I recall, a hairdresser or clothing designer or ex-boyfriend of someone or other, and he kept trying to press me to include the Mayan Calendar).

If the very smart Abrams didn’t want to go that way, I would be wide-open to rethinking such a film from the git-go.

Paramount would, of course, have to pay me from the first meet git-go; but I have absolutely NO attitude that would prevent me from jumping in to work with such a clever fellah. One is NEVER too old to come up with fresh ideas, particularly if one has lived long enough, and cleverly enough, to know WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE to death, sixteen times over.

If anyone out there thinks this melding has legs, let Abrams or anyone else with the chops to get in touch with me DIRECTLY. I am without full-time film-agent representation, by choice, at the moment; so if the job presents itself, I will work for pay.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Ellison also quickly followed up with the following, as a response to the fans on his site who didn’t seem to buy into the idea:


What the hell ARE you guys…nuts?

Where’s the "downside" to getting topside the radar of J.J. Abrams? This guy ain’t Roddenberry! He also ain’t the ex-hairdresser with the jones for Mayan calendars!

He’s a writer I respect, whose work has frequently blown the lid off my box of surpriseability. But, then, he already KNOWS that. It isn’t as if I’d kept my admiration chained in the darkest cell of the basement of Bedlam.

So go, my faithful minions. Fly! Fly! Save the Olde Geezer from croaking without a killer Third Act.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Ellison Talks Trek and pitching TMP Idea in 1976
As noted above, the last time Ellison was involved in a Star Trek film, was in the 70s, when he pitched for the first Trek feature film.
Here are clips of Harlan on the Tom Snyder show from 1976 (along with DeForest Kelley and Walter Koenig). He talks Trek and also how his pitch went.

Will it ever happen?
There can be no doubt that Harlan Ellison is a talented and creative science-fiction writer. He has picked up many awards over his decades long career including eight Hugos and three Nebulas. In his recent interview with TrekMovie, co-writer/exec producer Roberto Orci said he was currently reviewing classic science fiction novels for inspiration, so talking to a ‘legend’ of sci-fi is not out of the question. Ellison may very well have some interesting ideas, and he does understand the Star Trek characters. Also, Ellison’s praise for JJ Abrams is sincere. I interviewed him during the writers strike in 2007 and he spoke highly of the director at that time (as you can see in the video below – NOTE: Harlan uses many ‘colorful metaphors’).

However, Ellison is notoriously litigious. Even in his comments above, he notes how important it is for him to be "paid." The Star Trek film makers may be concerned that they could face a lawsuit claiming they used his ideas, even if they felt they did not. If you listen to the new commentary on the recently re-released Star Trek First Contact on Blu-ray and DVD, Star Trek producer (and sequel co-writer) Damon Lindelof and I spoke about time travel Trek episodes and when ever I mentioned "City on the Edge of Forever", Lindelof joked that we owed Harlan more money. There is also another issue. As evidenced in our video interview (above) Ellison had made an enemy of the late studio negotiator Nick Counter, making many disparaging remarks about him in public. Unfortunately for Ellison, Nick Counter’s son-in-law is Star Trek co-writer/exec producer Alex Kurtzman.

But you never know.  



1. Gigastazio - November 24, 2009

And when his offer gets graciously declined, does he resort to running his mouth once again?

2. The Last Maquis - November 24, 2009

“science fiction author” and Not “Writer” Very good:)

3. Valar1 - November 24, 2009

keep this loon away from Abrams

4. The Invader (In Color!) - November 24, 2009

FIRST!!! I would actually be Ellison working on the next film! I think it would be excellent!

JJ would be wise to at least look into it — I won’t hold my breath though.

5. Scott - November 24, 2009


6. Smilin Bob - November 24, 2009

Wouldn’t it be ironic if it was Harlan Ellison who figured out a way to finally bring Shatner back into Star Trek?

7. The Invader (In Color!) - November 24, 2009

#6 — That would be cool…but I doubt Ellison would want to be hamstrung with anything.

But I’ll believe it when I see it. I don’t care for Ellison’s personality or antics, but it would be incredible to have a real science fiction writer of his calibur working on Star Trek again.

No doubt about it.

8. sean - November 24, 2009

I Have No Income and I Must Grovel

9. CmdrR - November 24, 2009

Harlan — If they won’t let you do a movie script, write a book. C’mon, surely they’ll let you tap out a doozey of a novel. Kill a few of the main characters (again), wreck the ship (again), find God (again.) It’s sci-fi. What the hell!

Hopefully, something good will come. We’ll be waiting.

10. Jim Nightshade - November 24, 2009

I have one quote for that-Lets get Ellison”the hell outta here”. nuff said-I doubt jj would push roberto n alex aside for harlan-he would have to have a hell of an idea i think. Its cool that harlan likes jj though…

11. New Horizon - November 24, 2009

I would like to see him participate to some degree. He’s a classic writer. I would love to see him inject some more sophisticated dialogue into the next movie. With a lot of movies lately, I feel like the writers are really ‘writing down’ so as to not confound the masses. It scares me somewhat to think how society appears to have regressed.

12. ooba joagfjie - November 24, 2009


13. Robogeek - November 24, 2009

Well, I’d hate to be the one to break it to Harlan, but there are already three screenwriters attached to the next Trek as it is, so this strikes me as highly unlikely (if not completely untenable, per some of the issues Anthony wisely points out).

Still, I’d love to see someone unleash Harlan on Trek anew via a novel or graphic novel or anime or something. That’d be an enormous treat.

14. Capes - November 24, 2009

You have got to be freakin kidding me! This guy loses all credibility with anyone who has listened to his rant for the past 30 years! He hasn’t been at it for the love of the art……he lives for the conflict, confrontation, and the clever (yet still smarmy) comments. Now that he won his penultimate battle with Trek, he weeps for there are no new worlds to conquer. Give it a rest, or better still. A Friendly suggestion: Go write something new and original that doesn’t feed off of the negativity of the past. (Clearly, there be scars there!) There is talent in him but it is buried under a veneer of public sourness, and disdain. Good luck with that….

15. Kyle Cawley - November 24, 2009

Cool that such a talented guy wants to get involved – I’m not sure how I feel about it all. It seems like it has the potential to cause a big mess, but it also has the potential to result in a really excellent, creative script written for something we all love!

Hmmmm…. I honestly kind of doubt anything will come of this. Orci/Kurtzman have done nothing but a great job so far!

16. ooba joagfjie - November 24, 2009

“This guy loses all credibility with anyone who has listened to his rant for the past 30 years! ”

unless you’ve actually payed attention to what he was saying and understood what he was trying to say.

17. AnotherQ - November 24, 2009

Please keep him away –
(brief and to the point)

18. Enterprise - November 24, 2009

EFF NO! Eff him! It’s because of him we almost didn’t get this movie!

19. crazydaystrom - November 24, 2009

IF this could happen the result would be, I dare say, the ‘The Dark Knight’ of Trek films!
I don’t see it happening but the idea gives me a tingle. Ellison can be an acerbic jackhole but he’s one hell of a damn fine writer.

20. JimJ - November 24, 2009

I know I’ll get crucified for this, but as great as “City” is…I still say old H.E. is overrated. I don’t think his style would fit with JJ & company. I just can’t see it. Thanks for the memories, Harlan…but now that you’ve been PAID, it’s over.

21. JimJ - November 24, 2009

Oh, and number 16-Shouldn’t your statement read like this:

“unless you’ve actually ‘PAID’ attention to what he was saying and understood what he was trying to say.”

????? LOL

22. DAK23 - November 24, 2009


Thank you.

23. Capes - November 24, 2009

#21 I’m with you!

24. MC1 Doug - November 24, 2009

#18: “… It’s becasue of hem we almost didn’t get this movie!”

Really? Prove it.

25. Jai1138 - November 24, 2009

Harlan Ellison is, I think, a genius and has certainly along with Robert Altman, George Lucas, Joseph Heller, Hunter S. Thompson and David Letterman been a huge influence on my own art. It would be great if he became involved with the ST sequel even as an elder adviser as the franchise has been ingeniously loosened of so many of the constraints that ran against his grain (don’t argue with me on that; it’s a fact in terms of the Abrams-verse). The man knows Story the way the rest of us know breathing.

As a great admirer of Mr. Ellison, I can’t help but think his involvement would give a satisfying sense of completion to his unique involvement with Star Trek at this point in his bizarre and storied life.

26. Willardcanada - November 24, 2009

I have respect for him on the basis that he wrote City on the Edge of Forever.

He probably has ruined his rep with anyone in Hollywood by suing James Cameron for stealing his ideas and using them to create The Terminator, and this whole decades long thing with Star Trek. Who would want to work with someone who would likely sue them later?

27. Enterprise - November 24, 2009

24. The new Trek movie had to be very careful of using certain elements not created by Ellison, or else they’d get sued.

28. MC1 Doug - November 24, 2009


Are you saying Mr. Ellison should not have sought out legal counsel after ‘The Terminator’ was made? IF a producer steals someone’s intellectual property it is only fitting to seek compensation.

That said, I am not convinced Ellison’s ‘Soldier’ or “the Demon With The Glass Hand’ from ‘The Outer Limits’ was the sole influence in making the ‘Terminator’ film. I mean–and before I continue I want to reiterate that I have the utmost respect for Mr. Ellison–but seriously, he did not invent the time travel story.

I do think Ellison could make a valuable contribution to the next movie, but also do not think it an essential one either.

29. Greg2600 - November 24, 2009

Better chance of Shatner than Ellison.

30. dmduncan - November 24, 2009

As a fan and admirer of Harlan Ellison’s talent, I guess I feel vindicated by my vigorous defense of ST.09 that Harlan Ellison actually wants to help with the sequel.

As I’ve said before, the man’s work will stand with few others when people from the future look back to the writers of this time.

And to those who want to cut Harlan down—screw off. Because the man did more to help out Star Trek than you did. It was, in fact, to HIM that GR turned to “save” Star Trek in a writing campaign to popular SF authors of the time, and it was GR who time and again lied or otherwise told untruths about Harlan’s original City script and Scotty “dealing drugs,” even after being corrected over and over again, and promising not to say it anymore.

So if you are going to compare GR to Harlan Ellison for who the more honest man is, the award goes to Harlan Ellison, and that’s probably why so many Star Trek fans don’t like him—because he doesn’t spare their beliefs with lies.

One of the best lines ever written for Star Trek was one which you never got to hear, and it was written by Harlan Ellison:

“No woman was ever loved as much, Jim. Because no woman was ever offered the universe for love.”

31. 4 8 15 16 23 42 - November 24, 2009

I’m game for having Harlan Ellison on board, BUT…

The real question is, how well can he collaborate with others?

It’s one thing to write the script, it’s another to *co-write* it with several other writers, all of whom are MUCH younger.

I want an old hand to be on the staff, but not at the expense of the youthful energy behind Star Trek XI.

32. Balok - November 24, 2009

Ha, go Harlan, go!

33. Mr. Delicious - November 24, 2009

This guy and I were roommates at the Tantalus Colony.

34. Jai1138 - November 24, 2009

Nicely worded #30.

Personally, I’d love to see JJ Abrams take on Mr. Ellison’s long in contention film adaptation of his brain melting “Mephisto in Onyx” as a feature.

35. Will - November 24, 2009

21 x 3. Ellison may be a genius at getting money without working, and for claiming to have shaped other people’s work (from Land of the Lost to Terminator and on to whoever he’s suing next) but beyond all that B.S., his Trek claim-to-fame is for an episode of Trek that was the least Trek-like episode in the series — which was refreshing, granted, but I doubt JJ is looking for a wild tangent type of story.

36. Capes - November 24, 2009

#30 “And to those who want to cut Harlan down—screw off. ”

#34 Nailed it………… “Nicely worded”

37. Chingatchkook - November 24, 2009

Ellison shouldn’t be allowed any where near the next movie. Orci and Kurtzman hit the ball out of the park the first time, why on Earth would Paramount throw a volatile quantity like Ellison into the middle of an obviously successful writing team? Orci and Kurtzman are good. Really good. Let’s not spoil that.

38. Anthony Pascale - November 24, 2009

I added a couple clips of Ellison talking Trek from Tom Snyder in 1976

39. Magicdan - November 24, 2009

Here’s why not: Bad Business

Sorry, good writer / author / etc.

Bad for buisness.

40. Vin - November 24, 2009

Ellison is a very greedy piece of crap and should be banned from hollywood for life. Dont let him get involved with the trek sequel or he will own it for life

41. Mr. Delicious - November 24, 2009

Gotta get me some Star Trek medallions….

42. dmduncan - November 24, 2009

40: And you are a bindlestiff.

Harlan Ellison has never been anything but an asset to Star Trek. And if you don’t know it, it’s because you are a bindlestiff.

It’s to Gene Roddenberry that he’s been a pain in the ass, and Roddenberry returned the agony with interest paid.

I can’t see that Bob, Alex, and Damon will step aside, but it’s perfectly reasonable for them to hear Harlan’s pitch. The man is a master of the art and the genre.

43. Trekluver - November 24, 2009

All I can say is NoNoNONoNONoNONONO! It would be a big mistake! JJ and his team know what they want and to add this guy into the mix wouldn’t be pretty to say the least, there might not even be a ST3 if he got no board with ST2 since he’d sue them for useing…he’s still trying to come up with it! I can say that JJ made a mistake not going with the Shatner sceene, it would have made the film an instant classic!

44. Odkin - November 24, 2009

Better chance of *De Kelley* than Ellison.

Everyone who credits him for “City on the Edge of Forever” clearly has no recollection of Ellison’s whining for decades that the episode was rewritten and ruined. Ellison turned in a MESS and the Trek staff had to pound it into the classic we all love.

45. dmduncan - November 24, 2009

And really, strive for the higher function responses here instead of the SNL Frankenstein parody of “FIRE BAD!!!”

Every time a Star Trek fan opens his mouth and something stupid falls out, an angel that looks like Harlan Ellison gets his wings.

46. Ran - November 24, 2009

Better Ellison than Orci / Kurtzman. The guy is a serious writer.

47. dmduncan - November 24, 2009

@44: Funniest thing I read all night. I’ve read the original City script. The inferior version was the one that got filmed, as far as I am concerned. I will agree with you on one thing, however: Ellison’s original script did get pounded.

48. GarySeven - November 24, 2009

#33. Mr. Delicious – November 24, 2009 wrote:
“This guy and I were roommates at the Tantalus Colony.”

That is very funny. This comment is nicely worded too.

49. jeff - November 24, 2009

what is the upside to involving ellison? he is a fine writer, sure, but his reputation precedes him. his litigious nature could jump up and bite us all on the ass. abrams makes one wrong move, and we won’t see a sequel till the real 23rd century.

plus, abrams and company have a handle on this thing. harlan, they really don’t need the help.

50. Capes - November 24, 2009

Well said #49

51. Chris M - November 24, 2009

Harlan Ellison is responsible for writing what I consider to be the best Star Trek episode ever of any Star Trek Series and for that we as Trekkies will be eternally grateful! Would have been great to to see what kind of Star Trem Movie he would have written back in the 70’s however the simple truth is that Star Trek no longer requires Harlan Ellison, the team behind Star Trek (2009) did an exceptial job and will no doubt do just as well with the next Star Trek Movie! So unfortunately for Harlan his offer to contribute to the next movie, which is very gracious apart from the demand for money of course, will have to be turned down.

52. Jim Nightshade - November 24, 2009

Is harlans original script located anywhere online to read? Id luv to see it or hear from someone who read it as to what the differences are and why the original script was greater than what wound up on the tv episode…

53. Norm - November 24, 2009

NO WAY! The Supreme Court doesn’t need any new justices, leave the team as is!

54. Syd Hughes - November 24, 2009

Anyone who bitches about Ellison hasn’t worked as a freelance writer in show business before, especially in TV. You have no idea what it’s like.

Imagine your own job, except any time you do anything well three other guys run to the boss to tell him they did it. Many many times, you have to fight your boss to get your paycheck, sometimes going months (or in Ellison’s case decades) without seeing a dime of what you earned, which ain’t much compared to the immense amount of money your boss makes off your work. It’s horrible.

Bully to Ellison for not rolling over and taking it. Also, his suit was against Paramount TV/CBS. He had nothing to do with the movie. Also, they settled the suit because everyone agreed they OWED HIM MONEY and had owed him money for decades.

55. Ponzer - November 24, 2009

30. “No woman was ever loved as much, Jim. Because no woman was ever offered the universe for love.”

One man’s “best” is another man’s treacle. Blech.

“Let’s get the hell out of here.” Nothing else needed to be said, in such a florid fashion as that. It was all conveyed as filmed.

56. VOODOO - November 24, 2009

I want Ellison on board so we can come to this site and interact with us. I have a feeling he wouldn’t be as “diplomatic “as Bob Orci and some of the others… It would be worth it for the entertainment value alone.

Beyond that, Mr. Ellison is a very talented guy who always has some interesting ideas. I say hear the man out. You have nothing to lose and maybe a lot to gain.

57. Eli - November 24, 2009

I’m all for writers getting the credit and the payment they deserve for their work, but some, like Ellison just take it way too far.

There was a story in my city this past week where the RIAA is suing a local bar for playing select pop songs in the background without a license when the same songs are played constantly on a radio station in town and could have easily been piped into the bar and the RIAA couldn’t touch them.

There’s so much grey area in some of these copyright cases, it’s almost impossible NOT to violate them.

58. VZX - November 24, 2009

Hey, he’s got to eat! He’ll take what he can get!

59. Pat Payne - November 24, 2009

This “money, dear boy” attitude is getting annoying (not the fact that a writer ought to be compensated for his effort and toil, but the fact that he is so FREAKIN’ BLATANT about it to the exclusion of any other consideration… jeez, you’d think the man has dollar signs for eyes…). Not to mention, “City on the Edge of Forever” notwithstanding, there are only two people I can see who ought to be consulted for writing duties on the new pic, if and they are DC Fontana and David Gerrold.

60. Pat Payne - November 24, 2009

@59: that should have read “if they’re amenable and available to do it, and they are DC Fontana and David Gerrold.”

61. NCC75010 - November 24, 2009

Absolutely NOT! Ellison is a NUT!! Keep him away from Star Trek for at least ten more years (maybe within that time span his clock will run out), and we won’t have to listen to his relentless blabbering anymore!!!! Run JJ, RUN!!!!

62. Bman - November 24, 2009

52. The original script is in Ellison’s book. Here’s a summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_City_on_the_Edge_of_Forever#Original_script

It’s pretty much the same story, with the exception that Ellison had officers dealing drugs and murdering each other. Edgy. Much better.

^ That’s sarcasm, in case no one recognizes it.

63. NoRez - November 24, 2009

Yes. And if it’s not working out (and why do I guess that it probably wouldn’t?), make sure there’s a TON of signed paperwork to ensure it can end amicably and without unnecessary unpleasantness.

Ellison involved in ‘Trek again; just the idea fills me with excitement and great fear.

64. william - November 24, 2009

Watching those clips really makes me miss Tom Snyder. No doubt, one of the best TV interviewers ever.

65. dmduncan - November 24, 2009

55: “One man’s “best” is another man’s treacle. Blech.”

One man’s cyanide is another man’s food. RIP.

“‘Let’s get the hell out of here.’ Nothing else needed to be said, in such a florid fashion as that. It was all conveyed as filmed.”

What are you talking about? What was “all conveyed as filmed”?

66. Shatner_Fan_Prime - November 24, 2009

#46 “Better Ellison than Orci / Kurtzman. The guy is a serious writer.”

Writing/storytelling from one medium to another is very different. If Ellison were left to his own devices to write the ST XII script, I have a feeling it wouldn’t exactly be a crowd pleaser.

67. Bman - November 24, 2009

65. What are you talking about? What was “all conveyed as filmed”?

The impact of what had just transpired. No flowery romantic prose was necessary.

68. cd - November 24, 2009

Let’s let Harlan help Kurtzman and Orci with Transformers 3 first, we’ll see how that goes, and then see about Star Trek 2.

69. Buzz Cagney - November 24, 2009


70. Neville A. Ross - November 24, 2009


Hey, he’s got to eat! He’ll take what he can get!

Then he should learn how to manage his money properly, and write abundantly, so that he can get a lot of money. Suing years afterward like a spoiled baby in need of candy is not the way to go about it. Eli is right, and I’m getting weary about all of these copyright lawsuits, especially Ellison’s.

Also, Ellison should stop acting like the wronged angel-he’s not one, especially after that incident in which he groped Connie Willis on stage at a Worldcon and didn’t even apologize for what he did-he’s lucky the incident didn’t become a major thing that resulted in her suing him, or having him arrested. Bottom line, he’s wronged others, and others have wronged him-let him get on with life and stop trying to fix all of the things he feels wronged about.

And no, I don’t want him writing Star Trek either.

71. ryanhuyton - November 24, 2009

I am not familiar with most of Harlan Ellison’s work, apart from City On The Edge of Forever, but from what I hear he is a talented writer. I believe him when he said how he was ripped off by Paramount over his royalties.These actions happened quite frequently in the sixties and seventies. I am certain many other writers had to sue to get what was rightfully theirs. Unfortuneately, even today, writers have to negotiate hard to get their full share. The internet and DVD and Blu Ray provide additional revenues for the studios and the writers had to go on strike to get their fair share. Having said that, while I understand his bitterness, I don’t think Mr. Ellison should be involved with J.J Abram’s seaquel. The Supreme Court did a hell of a job with a few exceptions. He is a very devisive and controversial figure. In my own opinion, I am not sure he understands today’s audiences as well as the current crew do. He may still be able to write a good story that appeals to Trekkies, but the general audience is another matter. Today’s audience wants fast pace action that feels epic in scope, which is unfortunately why a City On The Edge of Forever type movie wouldn’t do well outside of the sci-fi crowd.

On a final note, I am grateful that Anthony Pascale and co. write articles on Harlan Ellison despite the fact that he is controversial for his colorful personality. It results in a good debate .

72. Jim Nightshade - November 24, 2009

haha cd thats a great idea-with Transformers ellison could indeed improve the script-wait why didnt he sue them for his original outer limits story with the racist robots who deal drugs? demon with a robotic middle finger—

73. Ross the Ensign - November 24, 2009

The only reason he sued so late was because he bought into the fake internet rumor that Abrams’ film was going to use the Guardian. But he does have the right to sue and be paid what is due him. I’m just sick of the constant running of his mouth about it. By the way, who is this former hairdresser he seems so obsessed with? They are so insignificant that he has ‘forgotten’ their name, yet he feels compelled to mention them over and over.

74. Cobalt 1365 - November 24, 2009

I would have to say, I would love to see one of the original writers come back to consult with the current crew. It may give it that extra link back to the original series.

That said, I think Harlan Ellison would be bad mojo for the CBS group, not that anyone at CBS would consider working with him again with so much bad blood between them.
But maybe someone like DC Fontana or David Gerrold would bring the right stuff into Trek Something Something.

75. ryanhuyton - November 24, 2009

Now with the lawsuit with Paramount over, I do hope he becomes a little less contankerous. I understand he still has issues, but he is an old man and it would be sad for everybody to remember him as a bitter old man when he passes away.

76. jas_montreal - November 24, 2009

@ 3

I like this loon. He essentially created the greatest episode in the star trek franchise. Possibly the best story ever told in Star Trek. I wouldn’t mind his input on the star trek sequel.

Its important for JJ’s team to keep things fresh and continously get fresh brains on the star trek movies. If not, then it runs the possiblility of becoming stale again, (AKA, INSURRECTION, NEMESIS, STAR TREK ENTERPRISE, STAR TREK VOYAGER)

77. Jayb - November 24, 2009

I’d love to see Mr. Ellison participate. He’s a very good writer, knows Star Trek well, and willing to help. Let him contribute.

78. Will - November 24, 2009

Pat — David Gerrold indeed would be a better choice, but, I want Gerrold to keep working on the Ch’torr series. Damn, to think I was in my 20s when I started reading it, and now here I am pushing 40+ and I still want the next book! (I’m forgiving his taking time out to direct the Phase II, though).

79. dmduncan - November 24, 2009

67: “The impact of what had just transpired. No flowery romantic prose was necessary.”

You didn’t read Harlan’s original script, did you?

80. Will - November 24, 2009

“it would be sad for everybody to remember him as a bitter old man when he passes away.”

People will probably remember him as a bitter young man. And a bitter middle aged man. Only then followed — in a remarkable display of his range — by his being a bitter old man.

81. ryanhuyton - November 24, 2009

Will, thank you so much for being the first to respond to my post! I’ve only posted a few times and it is so cool when someone reads a post and responds to it.

82. dmduncan - November 24, 2009

I think Harlan has something to contribute. He is an asset to the franchise. But can he work with this writing team? Because I don’t see this team sinking into the background so he can write it by himself. But that he’s interested implies a favorable review of Bob and Alex’s efforts thus far.

I think they should give him a hearing, and not be apprehensive because of reputation or rumors. The question is would they be able to work with him? They might be able to. How do you know unless you leave your fears behind and see what’s what?

What they should do is invite him to pitch and afterwards say “With 2012 just around the corner, do you think you can squeeze some Mayans in there?”

And then wait a few serious beats before grinning.

83. Smilin Bob - November 25, 2009

He reminds me a lot like Roger Ebert, only fatter.

84. Blackout - November 25, 2009


Harlan Ellison Wants More Money

85. Dan - November 25, 2009

Sign Harlan on for the sequel NOW!!!!!

86. Iowagirl - November 25, 2009

– I would have to say, I would love to see one of the original writers come back to consult with the current crew. It may give it that extra link back to the original series. –

Yep – urgently needed.

Well, I for one would certainly remember him as a very talented writer, a scifi constant, and a personality sticking out from the usual Hollywood pabulum.

87. Dennis Bailey - November 25, 2009

The envy of nasty little no-talent “fans” whose primary obsession is to keep the supply of their “Star Trek” drug flowing is…alternately amusing and tedious.

88. Stebo - November 25, 2009

mmmm, not to sure….leave the team as be.

89. Crewman Darnell - November 25, 2009

Harlan Ellison is a braying, money-grubbing jackass, with delusions of Godhood. …With that said, he’s also an extremely gifted writer. Had he been at the writing helm of the recent Trek movie (or any to follow) Star Trek Fans would have (had) a majorly different experience, -probably for the better. I’d love to see a screenplay by Mr Ellison, written for the sequel. Orci & Kurtzman’s writing wasn’t much of what I was hoping for. The last film could have been titled: “Star Trek, Another Summer 09 Movie!!”

90. Selor Kiith - November 25, 2009

Get him as far away from this movie as anyhow possible!

91. S. John Ross - November 25, 2009

I don’t think the idea of having a writer on the film would mesh with the Abrams approach.

92. andrea - November 25, 2009

for the next star trek movie we have JJ & company, and i love it, i hope JJ take the role of director for the sequel! and for the third one TOO

in my dream if there is another guy i would like to see involved in the script, is Richard Matheson.

JJ is a twilight zone fan, me too, i hope he think about it!!!

JJ please call MR Matheson,

i hope the new movie come back to the “where no men has gone before” and strange story feeling roots TOS and Twilight zone have.

i hope in a deep space story, i love in star trek 2009 the feeling of the space shot, deep and dark… amazing! i hope for more of it in the new one!

93. andrea - November 25, 2009

yesterday i saw “Who Mourns for Adonais?” episode, in it there are so many elements about a good star trek story, and the strange feeling i feel in TOS, a giant haned in space, not the conventional space vassel, a GOD Apollo, good and evil in the same time, a vilain mad but not in a conventional way, mad cause of the solitude of century alone, in this episode we have human ancient mithology became a reality in the deep space, i love it.

romance and death, and man in trap!

i love it in star trek i hope JJ & Co. think about it.

mad ancient villains of the our past history, TOS was full of this strange situation, Apollo, in a strange new world where no men has gone before… it’s weird but amazing!

94. Anthony Thompson - November 25, 2009

Well, the guy is brimming with passion and ideas. Let him work with Bob and let’s see the results of their brainstorming. My betting is that a truly great Trek movie would be born.

And… Bob might end up in a psych ward. : D

95. Nuallain - November 25, 2009

To try and be the voice of reason a bit…

Whether or not Ellison is a good writer, or whether he’s right, or wrong, in any court cases he’s taken in the past (or even whether or not his general litigious nature is appropriate or not).

Purely from an EMPLOYERS point of view (which is how Paramount will have to be looking at it) the fact that Ellison (rightly or wrongly) has a perceived history of ‘not playing well with others’ and the fact that he aggressively sues whenever he (rightly or wrongly) perceives an idea as ‘his’ probably makes it a non-starter.

Particularly since he wants pay (and thus some form of contract) from the very first meeting. That means, effectively, that WHATEVER HE SAYS, no matter how generic or obvious, in that meeting could form the basis of a lawsuit if something similar shows up in the movie.

I don’t think that’s a risk that would be very sensible for anyone in Bad Robot or Paramount’s shoes to take.

96. Nuallain - November 25, 2009

Sorry there should be a ‘is besides the point’ at the end of that first paragraph,

97. screaming satellite - November 25, 2009

“Yes, I would likely try to steer him toward the original film idea I was asked to pitch”

Correct me if im wrong but wasn’t the original movie idea Ellison had for TMP called ‘Planet of the Titans’ where the Ent is back in time at the dawn of man or something…

Cant remember where I read it now…

Anyone got the Ellison movie treatment (not script or anything just an overview of what he planned)

98. Jeyl - November 25, 2009

“Yes, I would likely try to steer him toward the original film idea I was asked to pitch”

He gets my vote. :)

99. Holger - November 25, 2009

It would be a good idea. Yes, Harlan Ellison seems to have a cantankerous and maybe even a mean personality. But he knows SF and he’s an excellent writer. JJ, on the other hand, could use any help he can get in producing some quality SF after all. But I’m pretty sure the two egos are too big for a productive cooperation.

100. Holger - November 25, 2009

95 Nuallain: Good point!

101. Admiral Shatner - November 25, 2009


Ditch Orci and Kurtzman!!!!!!!!!!!!
And J.J.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And then get a director who makes all the cast be like Quinto, Urban, and Greenwood.
Then we’ll have a real Star Trek movie. Maybe not the best, but at least real.

102. Colonel West - November 25, 2009

no doubt ol’ Harlan is looking for another character or plot device that he can live off the residuals from! Harlan was one of my literary heroes growing up but by god does he come across as a thoroughly unlikeable man. i didn’t actually think there could be someone more litagous than denny crane in real life but Mr. Ellison gives him a run for his money!

103. Admiral Kent - November 25, 2009

The real question here is why is Harlan morphing into Shelly Winters?

104. Dom - November 25, 2009

Anyone approached by Harlan Ellison with an offer to assist on their film should feel honoured.

Anyone who knew Star Trek from before the TNG era brought in all that OTT nonsense about ‘Gene’s Vision’ is well aware of how important Harlan is to Trek.

105. The Invader (In Color!) - November 25, 2009

#97 — Ellison didn’t write Planet of the Titans. It was written by British writers Chris Bryant and Allan Scott — and later, director Phil Kaufman (Who later served as director of the 1970s remake of Invasion of the Body Snatchers featuring Leonard Nimoy.).

106. Rico - November 25, 2009

I like Harlan as a writer and a person. I like his ‘take no bs attitude.’ But, I think the writing team they have in place knows how to write and even really knows Trek overall better than Harlan. They don’t need him on the next movie. I think they can come up with plenty of good ideas on their own.

107. The Invader (In Color!) - November 25, 2009

#95 — VERY true! That’s why I think it extremely unlikely (as much as I’d like to see his name in the credits of a Star Trek movie) that he’ll be a part of the next film. Plus, that would be extremely tacky and inappropriate to tell Roberto and Alex their services aren’t wanted anymore after the success of the first film.

I’m afraid the ship has sailed for Harlan…with regard to writing any Star Trek movies anyway. Comics, novels…I don’t know why those would or should be off limits but Paramount may have decided they want no part of him after decades of a hostile relationship with him.

108. G - November 25, 2009

He obviously doesn’t like playing with others when writing, so I don’t see how that would work out (creatively).

109. No Khan - November 25, 2009

I say why not if his idea is good.

110. CAPT KRUNCH - November 25, 2009

What a leach!!!!!…he has been bitchin about that lawsuit and Joan Collins for 43 years…and now he has the balz to try to associate himself with the new TREK….
Wasn’t there a story , he created, that TREK was going to use the Guardian…and he would sue!!
I agree that his story was probably the best wriiten and acted…Shatner was awesome in that role, but Ellison is bad for Paramount, CBS, and TREK…
I think this is a good team as they are…he could contibute ideas perhaps, but I’m sure he would sue them if they used them!

111. EM - November 25, 2009

I know that Mr. Ellison is a very talented man. I’m sure that JJ and Paramount recongnize contributions to science fiction as be ing outstanding. Mr. Ellison has, however, created a lot of negative drama around himself. I’m sure that Bad Robot and Paramount don’t want to risk the trouble. To quote The Black Eyed Peas :
“If you touch it I’ma start some drama,
You don’t want no drama,
No, no drama, no, no, no, no drama”

112. P Technobabble - November 25, 2009

Harlan Ellison is one of my favorite writers, and one of the few writers to ever bring tears to my eyes while reading a story. His original script for “City” was a masterpiece, IMO. Some people criticize him and find him offensive. I find him to be true to his principles and blatantly honest. Whether one agrees with him or not, the man does his homework and certainly has an “informed” opinion. I don’t think any artist appreciates someone else re-doing his work. Imagine if your story was finally put in print, but what you read wasn’t your work. You would have a reaction, I’m sure.
This world is ALL about $$. Money drives the world. If higher qualities drove the world, we wouldn’t have many of the problems that exist now. So, Harlan wants to get paid for his work. How many people don’t? He is self-employed, his products are his ideas put in print or image. Why shouldn’t he get paid for that? A musician’s products are ideas put down in sound, and they get paid, and so forth.
So, Harlan can be abrasive. Or maybe some people’s ears are too sensitive… that’s the other side of the coin. In trying to take on the qualities of a more “civilized” society, we have adopted the notion of “political correctness,” so that we do not say anything that is offensive to anyone. At the same time, PC prevents you from saying whatever you want to say, ie. freedom of speech. I’m not making a judgement about the CONTENT of a person’s speech. I think Harlan should say whatever he wants, and, as my ancestors did, I would argue for his right to do so, whether I approve of what he says, or not. From my POV, Harlan is funny. That’s how comedians still manage to get around the PC issue, by criticizing things in a humorous way. Harlan is sarcastic. So what?
I’m not begrudging anyone their own right to comment on Ellison, either, if that’s what you want to do. Harlan is standing up for what he believes is right, what he believes is his due, but his critics are trying to stamp him out of the picture. Everyday human politics at work.
As for Ellison working with Abrams, I think it’s a fine idea. Ellison does not appear to be looking to take over the project. If he had an idea with full understanding that Bob and Alex were writing the script, I’m sure all would be right with the world. In terms of Star Trek, it would be an historic event.
And Ellison could always write the novelization (wink, wink, Harlan), and give it his own touch, so to speak.
With that said, if the Supreme Court will be working on their own, I’ll be just as happy. They did a great job the first time around, and there’s no reason to think they couldn’t do it again. I’m just becoming impatient to see it!! Whatever it is!! Somebody do something!!

113. Barihawk - November 25, 2009

I don’t understand how Ellison still has fans with the way he speaks to them. We don’t need 60’s writers on the New Trek. That will only drag it back and to be honest the screenwriters and players of the day (Roddenberry included) were sleazebags.

His writings in the blogclippings above are teeming with bitterness, kissing ass, and dollar signs. Asking to be pretty much hired from the get-go is brash and unruly.

I don’t care if this guy cranks out Hugo awards from his rectum, his “do it my way or piss off, like what I write or piss off” attitude would ruin an effective writing team.

Let’s keep the numbers of Trek fans going UP instead of going down like the past 25 years.

114. Check the Circuit! - November 25, 2009

He’s had 30 years to think of new Star Trek ideas and he’s interested in pitching the same idea (that didn’t sell) in 1976?

Oh…and who DOESN’T want to be involved in the Star Trek sequel? Let’s see…Shatner, Mulgrew, Frakes, Ellison…I think I read somewhere that the reoccuring extra that played the butch-haired bridge officer in the background of TNG for 7 years wants in too. Although she might have gotten blown up when the saucer section crashed on Veridan III. So if her character is dead, there’s no way to bring her back…Right Mr. Shatner?

115. somethoughts - November 25, 2009

Cool video clips, how much things have changed in 30 years. I was shocked to see the host puffing away on a cigarette and the amount of second hand smoke in the air! The dawn of time idea, seems pretty cool, scary how one of my posts on this forum for the next movie idea was similar to Harlans, spooky. I always loved time travel stories, they are the ultimate sci fi vehicle to tell grand stories. If time travel was possible, it has to be a space farring civilizations ultimate technology and discovery.

116. Andy Patterson - November 25, 2009

I’m all for it. I enjoyed HIS work on Star Trek. Maybe I’d like the next movie.

117. Tony Whitehead - November 25, 2009

yes. Yes. YES!
One of the best screenplays ever for television, although un-shootable in that format, was COTTOF. I highly recommend anyone who doubts that to go back and find his book and original script. Pay the man and reap the profits.

118. somethoughts - November 25, 2009

Would be pretty sick to have Boborci/Alex and Harlan and the court bang out the ultimate sci fi story of all time and beat out T2/Aliens/The Fly.

I want Star Trek to break every Box Office Record! We can dream can’t we?

119. Gatortrek - November 25, 2009

Keep the insane away– say no to the self absorbed H.E.!!!

120. Ran - November 25, 2009

@ 66

“Crowd Pleaser” got you the new Transformers movies….. Don’t you think Trek deserves a better fate than a crowd pleaser type of a movie?

121. Garovorkin - November 25, 2009

Why the Hell not? Harlan Ellison is on of the greatest writers of all time. He could come up with a really terrific story . He is simply the best at what he does.

122. Dr. Image - November 25, 2009

I say bring him in. For old times sake.
Let him stir things up. The publicity alone would be worth it.

123. starfall42 - November 25, 2009

Ellison is a great writer, but he’s impossible to work with. J. Michael Straczynski is about the only one that’s managed it.

124. Shatner_Fan_Prime - November 25, 2009

#120 … Since we’re on a Star Trek site talking about Orci & Kurtzman’s work, I was referring to Star Trek 2009, not Transformers. And no, I don’t think a Harlan Ellison penned Star Trek XII would be “a better fate.” I’d need to see some proof of that. When’s the last time he wrote anything for the screen?

125. The Invader (In Color!) - November 25, 2009

#113 — “the writers and “players” of the day were sleazebags”.

Are you calling DC Fontana, Gene Coon, the classic science fiction authors who helped build Star Trek (not to mention the highly admirable Bob Justman) sleazebags?


That’s a pretty bold statement coming from someone who didn’t know these people.

I wouldn’t even call Ellison a sleazebag. I differ with him on many a topic, his treatment of fans (which I myself have encountered face-to-face, btw) but to call him a “sleazebag” is not your call nor mine.

126. Gul B. - November 25, 2009

JJ, you don’t need that grief.

127. Ran - November 25, 2009


It is not the writing of Ellison that I am concerned about. It is the childish writing of Orci / Kurtzman. In that respect, anything else would be better, hence Ellison.

128. AdamTrek - November 25, 2009

A small part of me kinda hopes for something like this to happen.

But the larger, more rational part of my left hemisphere is saying, “Hell no. Not gonna happen.”


129. Shatner_Fan_Prime - November 25, 2009

#127 “It is not the writing of Ellison that I am concerned about.”

Well, you should be. His one and only contribution to Star Trek, 42 years ago, was heavily edited. And as I am trying to tell you, he is not a Hollywood writer. Writing for the screen is very different from writing books, some people cannot grasp that. The most Ellison could be trusted to do would be to contribute ideas. But as the article states, he hasn’t exactly been on good terms with Paramount or the Kurtzman family!

130. Admiral Crane - November 25, 2009

Hell No! Not even a sit down. If Ellison gets ticked off he will sue and tie up production. We would be lucky to have another Star Trek movie before 2025.

131. JimJ - November 25, 2009

No idea that Harlan has is worth the money he’s gonna want to get paid between 2010-2012, until the movie comes out. Then, he’s gonna milk it for more money via lawsuits until he dies, so he can live off of Trek like Social Security. Just my opinion and I’m sure many think I’m a jerk for saying it. Point is, I love people on here who say they admire the fact that Harlan is frank and says what he thinks, but when we express a differing viewpoint at the site, someone always has to get mad and preachy about it.

132. Scott - November 25, 2009

Err, no thanks. City on the Edge of Forever was a great classic Trek episode but Mr. Ellison as a person is so abrasive that I doubt he’d be able to work with Mr. Abrams and the rest of the production & writing staff.

Really, there’s only two people in the world that I wouldn’t want to see in Trek at this point: Harlan Ellison and J. Michael Straczynski. JMS did a great job with Babylon 5 but he favors stuff that’s just way too esoteric for the general public to enjoy.

133. John Gill - November 25, 2009

LOL, Harlan working on next Trek Film? LOL, surely you jest.
Yes, “City On The Edge Of Forever” is a classic, it’s GREAT, but history tells us that the TV version we fell in love with is completely different than Harlan’s original story, plus he’s been bashing Trek and it’s fans for years, I think he just wants his finger in the pie.

134. Shatner_Fan_Prime - November 25, 2009

Speaking of old timers consulting the new guys…I remember that before Bob Justman passed, he was excited about JJ Trek and said he’d love the chance to talk to JJ about Star Trek. He never got the chance. But that would have been nice; Justman was a man who knew what Trek was all about.

Similarly, I think it would be cool if D.C. Fontana got to visit the writer’s room as ST XII is being prepared.

135. brutus arelius - November 25, 2009

Is this guy still an author? What was the last thing he produced? Quick check of wikipedia seems to show he has not published a novel/novellla/short story in over 10 years. The way he acts you would think he was someone with success on par of a John Grisham or Stephen King when his only real claim to any kind of fame is one well received episode of a TV show that was on the air over 40 years ago (I love Trek in all its’ incarnations but face it Harlan nobody know who you are because your moment was a looooonnnnngggg time ago).

JJ is sharp. JJ needs no help. JJ won’t touch this at all.

136. AJ - November 25, 2009

God, I miss Tom Snyder. Everyone chomping on cigarettes having a real discussion about the state of TV and sci-fi. That was a terrific roundtable which one would never see on TV today, and a great snapshot of a moment in time.

137. John from Cincinnati - November 25, 2009

J.J. Abrams say YES to Ellison!

and bring back the Guardian of Forever!!!!!

138. NoRez - November 25, 2009

Dear P Technobabble,

Marry me?

139. Adam Bomb 1701 - November 25, 2009

#6 – I doubt that Ellison would be the one to bring Shatner back to “Trek”, since he apparently burned his bridges with Shatner a long time ago. IIRC, there was an article by Ellison in a TV Guide special 30th anniversary salute to “Trek” back in 1996. In that article, Ellison stated that Shatner palled up to him, to get a look at the finished “City” script before anyone else. Once the Shat got what he wanted, he proceeded to count lines. He went to complain to the “Trek” producers, and demanded another re-write, because Spock had maybe four more lines than Kirk. Ellison also noted that Shatner left a tire track from his motorcycle on Ellison’s driveway, which, 30 years later, was still there.

#52 – Jim – Go to this website to see Ellison’s original outline of “City On The Edge…”:

140. CJS - November 25, 2009

Dump the Transformers hacks. Hire Ellison and Nicholas Meyer to write the script. If JJ’s too busy, Meyer can direct too.

141. sean - November 25, 2009

I would love to see Harlan involved. If nothing else, as some kind of story consultant or contributor. He’s a very smart fella. Given the respect JJ has given to previous Star Trek luminaries (the original cast esp Leonard Nimoy, many of the production folks like John Eaves, etc.) I don’t think he’d be against consulting with Harlan.

142. Dom - November 25, 2009

140. CJS

Never going to happen. Orci and Kurtsman are really good writers, but writers have to be almost ‘invisible’. They write what the studio, producers and directors require of them. If they go off on their own tangent, they’re unceremoniously dumped and someone else is brought in who’ll do as they’re told. And Nick Meyer, love him as we all do, has only directed a couple of films since STVI. He’s mainly a writer. Much as Leonard Nimoy has said of himself, he wouldn’t know where to start on a 2010-ish major Hollywood blockbuster!

That said, there’s nothing to stop them hiring Ellison as something like a Conceptual Consultant, as JMS did on Bab 5!

143. Brett Campbell - November 25, 2009

Repent, Harlan! You dick-dock man. Love your stuff, but …

Thank you for letting me use your name and a parody of one of your story titles in this post. The check is in the mail.

All kidding aside, I’d love to see what kind of shot in the arm that you could these days give a mythos that is pushing fifty. Good luck.

144. Spockanella - November 25, 2009

I’m ambivalent on this one. I’ve been a fan of Ellison’s for a long, long time, but he sure seems high maintenance and I would be concerned that a project involving him could get tied up in all kinds of mess, not just legal. This is not to disparage his enormous talent or his Trek chops. But it seems to me that Abrams, Orci and Co. have got it together without need of Ellison’s input.

However, where Trek is concerned I’ve learned to keep an open mind. I NEVER thought Chris Pine could pull off Kirk. I had concerns about Abrams, to be honest. So, hell, let whatever happens, happen. Regardless, I’ll be there for the sophomore effort.

145. Charla a long time STAR TREK FAN - November 25, 2009

Sounds like Ellison had his chance in his day and has burned some bridges along the way. Now his reputation for litigation precedes him.

Bob and Alex have proved they have the talent required to make Star Trek a memorable and formidable franchise again. They have made Star Trek “cool” again.

Why try to fix something when it isn’t broke?

146. crazydaystrom - November 25, 2009


“That said, there’s nothing to stop them hiring Ellison as…a Conceptual Consultant, as JMS did on Bab 5!”

Ditto. I was about to post a similar comment.


I’ve wondered about that bridge crewman for years, no decades now. Who is she and what’s her (real world) story? The last time I wondered about some one like that it turned out she was boinkin’ David Letterman! Not implying anything here, I’ve just always wondered.

Back on topic-

I’d love to have an Ellison story idea for the next film.

147. vorta23492392932939230 - November 25, 2009

Ellison could bring the one thing the new Star Trek didn’t really have — great Sci-Fi ideas. JJ and Orici/Kurtzman can handle action, humor, and character moments pretty well, but with out that “where no one has gone before” feeling it might as well just be any old space war movie.

Hopefully someone would at least let him pitch an idea (and fairly compensate him for its use — come on people, these are artists who deserve to be paid for what has helped make some mega-corporations huge profits) and infuse some serious mind-blowing speculative fiction concepts into this otherwise slick and visually sophisticated new franchise.

148. Brett Campbell - November 25, 2009

147 – Hear! Hear! Well spoken.

149. P Technobabble - November 25, 2009

138. NoRez

I’m afraid I’m not on the market…

150. I, Mugsy - November 25, 2009

While Mr Ellison appears to be a somewhat…. cantaknerous character at best, he is a genius. It would be fitting to see Star Trek use a proper science-fiction writer for the sequal.

Or even better – and sorry to mention this again folks – use him to create a TV spin off featuring Spock Prime and the return of Kirk. Think about it – Kirk, Spock, and the writer of The City on the Edge of Forever together for a grand send off. Unlike a film the story could take its time and be a two parter or something. Take the time to tell the best story possible… heck even use the Guardian of Forever again, only this time the Guardian from the ‘new’ secondary Trek universe…

The ratings would go through the roof…. as would Ellison’s pay cheque no doubt ;)


151. I, Mugsy - November 25, 2009

P.S. sorry for the typos – doing 3 things at once ;)

152. AJ - November 25, 2009


Shatner is now breaking the bank as a comic actor/commercial spokesman. And at 78, for him to come back as Kirk in some overly sentimental version of ‘Star Trek; with Nimoy, or anything overtly serious for that matter, would water down what is his most successful commercial period to date.

And the “grand send-off” was Star Trek VI in 1991. Done and dusted.

153. Chang's Gang - November 25, 2009

The beauty of having Hollywood’s most talented director handle your franchise is that you don’t have to give the time of day to such loons like this.

154. p.e.b. - November 25, 2009

probably wont get a response… but does anybody know who wrote the script for trek VI? was it solely nimoy? actually…why dont they get nimoy involved with the writing of the film? he’s always had great ideas that turned into box office success for trek films.

155. Mr. Delicious - November 25, 2009

#154 – Denny Martin Flynn

156. Mr. Delicious - November 25, 2009

He died in 2007.

157. AJ - November 25, 2009


Nimoy was involved in the story and Nick Meyer contributed to the screenplay (with Denny Martin Flynn).

158. Mr. Delicious - November 25, 2009

#114 – Bring Back Mr. Leslie. That guy is The Resilient Red Shirt. Killed by the cloud creature and back on the bridge the next week. Didn’t even need the Geneis Device.

159. Mr. Delicious - November 25, 2009

Oops – I meant “Genesis” Device.

160. Captain Otter - November 25, 2009

I wonder if Mr. Ellison likes cheese with his whine.

161. BigBangTheory - November 25, 2009

Whatever you say about his personality, he is a long time award winning sci fi writer who happened to be the one who wrote what most would say is the best Star Trek episode in it’s history. I suggested a while back they hire him for the next movie, and anything else they can related to Trek!

162. Dom - November 25, 2009

152. AJ: ‘And the “grand send-off” was Star Trek VI in 1991. Done and dusted.’

And wrecked in 1994 with Generations!

163. AJ - November 25, 2009

This is a good question to ponder. “Avatar” is about to be released, and it looks like the Smurfs’ version of “Insurrection” with a $250m fx budget. With Cameron, it will involve hours of exasperatingly dull dialogue which will make you want to kill off all the main characters.

A truly original sci-fi story would be welcome as long as our favorite characters are respected. As has been noted above, Messrs. Orci and Kurtzmann have a solid record of bringing home the bacon in a crowd-pleasing sort of way, so the chances of Mr. Ellison being invited are quite slim.

A “twist” would be nice, a la old-style “Trek” or “Twilight Zone.” Trek’s re-done “COTEOF” is iconic in its perfection. Look at “Balance of Terror” and “Errand of Mercy.” “Mirror, Mirror,” though it’s been copied to death, is just great. If the writers can come up with something as exciting and fresh as those eps, we’re in business.

Trek09 exempted itself as the ‘origin story’ of our crew, and they came up with a pretty good framing story. Trek2012 is going to be the big one, and I truly hope JJ&Co hit one out of the park.

164. Lord Garth, Formerly of Izar - November 25, 2009


Some of you are REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAL weirdos!! I am a weirdo too but some of you should be on the Obama Gov’t watch list with such hateful angry reactions. We’re not talking about heious acts or something truely terrible like the Next Generation or Voyager after all.
Why the personal hate and vitriol for Ellison? Dude was one of the greatest sci-fi writers of all time.
Don’t get you all sometimes, as if you were on the Paramount payroll ass attack dogs. An Ellison assisted script could be brilliant!! The exuberant, Gen X-ish, popcorn, Ipoddy stuff tempered with a brilliant sci-fi thinker could make for one hell of a script.

165. AJ - November 25, 2009



I agree. “VI” should have ended it. But money talks, and they felt, obviously, that putting the TNG crew in a new film solo was a risk.

Shatner got a paycheck, Doohan and Koenig had last licks at a steady gig, and Paramount mauled something which was elegantly ended in TUC.

Kirk dies falling off a bridge in a cheap freeze-frame. Butt-holes.

166. DarthLowBudget - November 25, 2009

What a bunch of reactionaries we’ve got here. Ellison is a genius, and JJ, Bob, Alex, and Damon would be lucky to work with him. He may seem a little out there, but he’s a damn fine writer, and wrote one of the greatest science fiction scripts I have ever read, a version of I, Robot (an adaptation, which shows he can work with others and their ideas) that never got off the ground back in the 70s (and has nothing at all to do with that horrible Will Smith movie).

JJ and crew could do a hell of a lot worse than to give Ellison a call.

167. Mr. Delicious - November 25, 2009

Ellison looks like a collison between Roger Ebert and Dr. Tyrell from Bladerunner.

168. Zebonka - November 25, 2009

HARLAN: JJ, your movie was great and imma let you finish, but …

169. BigBangTheory - November 25, 2009

City on the Edge of Forever
He wrote that! Who cares what he looks like.

170. Trekenstein - November 25, 2009

Why exactly are Orci/Kurtzman/Abrams/Lindelof afraid of Harlan Ellison?

I have yet to see anyone make a convincing argument for what if anything Ellison would bring to the next movie that Orci/Kurtzman have not already accomplished on their own. Is there some lack of faith that the Supreme Court won’t deliver at least equally to what they did for this film? Or they aren’t up to the challenge?

Suggesting Ellision participate as a writer is naive at best. Writing partners have very close relationships which no outside can simply drop into, no matter who it is. These guys don’t adapt other’s stories. They write original screenplays. Inserting another voice, no matter how complimentary, simply doesn’t fit with these guys or their style, nor their proven track record.

Unless you are unhappy with the new guys, or the current movie, I can think of no valid reason to bring in another voice, especially Ellison, who can only bring old baggage to the team. Please, let the sentimentality of the past go and embrace the future . For better or for worse, Abrams is the future of the franchise. Don’t put obstacles in their path.

171. Commander Crooner - November 25, 2009

Everyone of you who read this article owes him money! Those that have posted owe him more!!

Crap, that includes me!!!

172. P Technobabble - November 25, 2009

I am pretty sure more is being made of this than needs to. Ellison was probably just answering questions, speaking off the cuff. I seriously doubt Orci & Kurtzman and the rest of the gang are thinking too much about Harlan Ellison. I doubt they are worried or feel threatened in any way. They are all probably having a laugh over another off-handed remark that gets blown to intergalactic proportions. If the Star Trek sequel has Ellison’s name on it, in any way, I am pretty certain everyone in our Supreme Court would be agreeable with it.

173. Trekenstein - November 25, 2009

#172 – “I am pretty sure more is being made of this than needs to.”

On this site? Are you kidding? LOL

174. Steve - November 25, 2009

No comment…

175. john - November 25, 2009

God, this guy is a megalomaniac, with one foot in the grave.

He wrote a GREAT episode, 40 years ago. Get over yourself, dude.

176. David P - November 25, 2009

i hope he can contribute, especially if it leads to the return of SHAT!

177. djfasj - November 25, 2009

I have very strong feelings about this but they can be boiled down into one word: No.

178. djfasj - November 25, 2009

But if he does manage to work on this movie, I’ll say it ahead of time: this is a disaster!!

179. TheBigCW - November 25, 2009

Harlan Ellison is not only a “Science Fiction” writer,but a great all-around writer.

When it comes to TV,just look at the wide range of shows he wrote for!

When it comes to books, just look at this ‘cannon’ of works.

180. Anthony Thompson - November 25, 2009

I think this may at least light a fire under some quarters. Things have been a bit too “back-burner” for my liking!

181. ryanhuyton - November 25, 2009

As I’ve said earlier, Harlan Ellison is great at creating controversy. Whenever an article about him is posted, so many interersting comments are posted either for him or against him. Keep up the good debate. It’s fun!

182. ryanhuyton - November 25, 2009

OOPS-I mean’t “interesting”. BAD ME!

183. Captain Dunsel - November 25, 2009

To borrow from “Fiddler on the Roof”: “May God bless and keep Harlan Ellison… Far away from Trek.”

184. Anthony Thompson - November 25, 2009

175. john

So Ellison “has one foot in the grave”? He’s 3 years younger than “The Shat”, so I hope you aren’t one of those folks calling for Shatner to be in the next film!

185. McCoy's Gall Bladder - November 25, 2009

Has anyone else noticed the complete LACK of Bob Orci’s input on this thread?

Bob.O does visit here, he does read the articles. If he thought anything about it, he’d have said something.

SO case closed. Orci is writing the new movie.

BOB, if you get this far, think SHAKESPEARE. There is a reason why his plays are still being presented, 500 years later. Aim for that kind of quality, please.

186. Edwin - November 25, 2009

Oh please keep this whining wretch away from Star Trek! Whilst I enjoyed the episode he ‘wrote’ immensely, it is just not worth bringing this guy back. There are plenty of talented writers out there who could contribute to the future of Star Trek.

I had the “pleasure” of seeing Mr. Ellison at a convention several years ago and — before I even knew who he was — he was ‘mouthing off’. I was wondering who this truly obnoxious guy was — I was very surprised when I found out. It is amaxing that such great ideas and venom go hand in hand

187. Dom - November 25, 2009

186. Edwin: ‘It is amaxing that such great ideas and venom go hand in hand’

They call it ‘piss and vinegar!’ Unfortunately most of us lose it by the time we’re teenagers. The most talented keep it!

188. P Technobabble - November 25, 2009

173. Trekenstein

Hard to believe, eh? ;-)

189. BringBackKirkPrime - November 25, 2009

Bring back Ellison and Bring Back Kirk Prime :o)

190. BringBackTrek - November 25, 2009

I think having Mr. Ellison onboard would be essential for the ultimate Star Trek movie featuring Shatner:

What if future Mirror-Kirk (Shatner) discovered a Mirror-Guardian and used it intentially or not to travel to the JJ-trek universe?

I can see the potential for some great scene-chewing and a much more glorious ending for Shatner’s Kirk.

191. dmduncan - November 25, 2009

In another thread Bob Orci stated he would be reviewing TOS beginning to end and also classic SF, and he mentioned Arthur C Clarke by name.

Ellison offering to help is like Heinlein, Asimov, or Clarke offering to help. I don’t know how you ignore that offer. And like Star Trek itself, Ellison came of age in the sixties. He’s one of the few contemporaries of the original show left, and the single greatest, most accomplished, writing talent that ever worked on the franchise.

You don’t like him? He pisses you off? So what. Grow up crybabies.

Yes, Bob and Alex can do the job without him if they so choose. But it’s their call—not ours—and it depends on how they feel about it. It’s absurd to think JJ will throw Bob and Alex under the bus for Harlan Ellison, so if anybody is envisioning that—not gonna happen.

But when they go into their research phase and begin reviewing great science fiction, there’s a good chance Harlan Ellison is a name they will run into. And they will definitely come to that name when they review the best episode of TOS. Clarke is dead. Asimov is dead. Heinlein is dead. Ellison is still around and he’s still passionate and sharp.

And if they are reading classic SF and checking these fan boards to even partly decide which direction to go, why not listen to one of its oldest and most accomplished living fans?

A fan who was there from the very beginning, who did more to “save” Star Trek at the behest of Star Trek’s creator than any person reading this blog and bitching.

Harlan Ellison.

192. BringBackTrek - November 25, 2009

#190 Oops, intentionally. Sorry, I hate typos.

193. Will - November 25, 2009

“Ellison offering to help is like Heinlein, Asimov, or Clarke offering to help. ”

Oh please don’t even put them in the same sentence! He’s nowhere near their level.

194. dmduncan - November 25, 2009

193: Oh you’ll get no apologies from me. I was being charitable towards Heinlein, Asimov, and Clarke.

195. Trekenstein - November 25, 2009

There is a big difference between reading from and being inspired by Ellison vs. inviting his input, much less hiring him. This is NOT the same Star Trek from the sixties. Abrams has already shown a willingness to totally re-invent the series for modern audiences. Ellison would only be a weight tied around its neck.

If there is nothing wrong with this Star Trek movie, why do they need any help from anybody for the next one? Somebody please tell me exactly what Ellison’s participation gets you?

196. Chadwick - November 25, 2009


Bob, Alex, JJ….I would say NO to working with Harlan, lol I don’t even know why such a mundane topic is being brought up in star trek news. I am not opposed to rejecting the including of more creative juices…maybe more is not always better? As a twenty-six year old I started watching star trek at age four back in 1987 when the next generation premiered, but that was another time. As much as I still love and enjoy watching the first ten movie (in all their blu-ray glory) those are movies from the past and another time. Bottom line, Harlan is just too old for something that is so fresh and new in its rebirth. That is the whole point of the new movie is a fresh start with fresh minds, Leonard Nimoy is the only star trek elder which should be brought back in anyway…no Shatner, no veteran directors or writers. JJ and co are the right people for the job!

I love the new group of people writers, director, actors) involved with star trek, they have grown on me and have a fondness for them. As a long time trek fan I was skeptical about the newbies but your all so great. Bob and Alex as writers for star trek are fantastic and with Damon its sure to be superb. Damon, JJ and Brian did fine jobs as producers. And I really hope JJ directs it because I could not imagine anyone else at this point (but less lens flares and shaky cam for the next one, p.s. I loved the behind the scenes on the blu-ray features.)

This movie for me filled a missing part of star trek, never has star trek felt so epic. As fantastic as previous movies and series were they never felt epic. Oh maybe a few episodes or parts of movies came close but the movie did it on a continuous basis as this movie did.

197. dmduncan - November 25, 2009

195: The offer has been extended. It’s their call. I have confidence in Bob, Alex, and JJ whatever their decision.

There may be a distinction between being inspired by words Ellison wrote and being inspired by words he delivers in a verbal pitch, but unless you are insinuating that Bob, Alex, and JJ are too weak to listen to him and still say no, thus abandoning the entire project to Harlan Ellison, then it’s a distinction without a difference.

“This is NOT the same Star Trek from the sixties.”

And who ever said it was? But to say that JJ totally reinvented the franchise for modern audiences is inaccurate. I’m unsure how you conflated reboot with total reinvention—particularly a reboot that was closer to the Sixties version of Star Trek than has ever appeared in the movies starring William Shatner. And both Bob and JJ have expressed an interest in going back to the sorts of themes that made TOS great. So no, this is not a radical reboot.

Further, you seem to be implying that Harlan can’t come up with a startlingly good and original idea that these guys will love and want to do which, given the man’s genius and body of work, is the best reason to hear him out. He’s old, he’s from the Sixties, but you do know that writing is not like playing basketball, that the same expiration dates do not necessarily apply to doing both those activities well?

“Somebody please tell me exactly what Ellison’s participation gets you?”

That’s the question the pitch is designed to answer. No pitch = no answer.

198. Son of a Maui Portagee - November 25, 2009

#26., #28.

There is much incorrect data publish on the so-called TERMINATOR “lawsuit” such that it qualifies as urban legend.

Fact: Ellison filed absolutely no legal actions prior to when the studio and Cameron on their own decided to contact Ellison and amicably agreed to give him the credit they agreed he was owed.

The only litigation that Ellison started with regards to that was when the release of a Laser Disc edition without his credit proved that contrary to the studio’s agreement at that meeting to recall and destroy all prints of the movie not crediting Ellison, the studio had, in fact, failed to do so.

199. Canon Schmanon - November 25, 2009

Oh Lord! I’ve been unfortunate enough in my life to have dealings with Harlan on several occasions. None of them were pleasant. J.J. should be careful, because Harlan will find any chance to sue him and the production company for any imagined slight. His history clearly proves it.

He’ll probably try to sue me for this.

200. Son of a Maui Portagee - November 25, 2009

For the record, this year’s STAR TREK was written by a duo.

The writing team for its sequel has already been expanded to a trio.

Those who keep asserting that there’s no reason to change the script team are arguing a moot point: the change has already been made. The question is whether adding another WGA award winner to the trio will add at least as much to the group as the one.

201. The Doc - November 25, 2009

Most of you guys have been cool, but seriously: why does everyone hate Harlan Ellison? He just calls it like he sees it. That’s all.If he thinks you’re being a s*ithead, then he’s gonna call you a s*ithead. Besides, his script (not the episode, just his script) would have been one of Trek’s best moments. All he ever does is just chill and only gets lawsuit happy when he’s getting screwed over. Y’all should chill out and let the man’s WORK speak for him.
-The Doc

202. Son of a Maui Portagee - November 25, 2009


Exactly how many times has Harlan had his legal representatives serve you?

203. Demode - November 25, 2009

If ever there was a plot device to get Nimoy and Shatner back together, it would be the Guardian of Forever. I definitely welcome Harlan back if something like this could happen!!

204. Son of a Maui Portagee - November 25, 2009

My guess for the mysterious hairdresser is Streisand’s ex, Jon Peters.

205. Capes - November 25, 2009

“Further, you seem to be implying that Harlan can’t come up with a startlingly good and original idea that these guys will love and want to do which, given the man’s genius and body of work, is the best reason to hear him out.”


….and besides, his most startlingly good and original idea for the past 10 years would be?

Oh yeah…….litigation!

206. Trekenstein - November 25, 2009

#197. I read a lot of inferences. I on the other hand infer a lack of confidence in the current writing team that they would need Ellison to come up with a good story.

But you raise a good point. Ellison has positioned himself to bring suit against Paramount if they don’t hire him to consult and the writing team uses any idea that Ellison ever published. But they are no strangers to being sued for plagiarism. And Paramount is used to being sued by Ellison.

207. TD - November 25, 2009

I can see it now…he gives his vision…JJ says “um..NO”
Harlan storms out claiming this child knows nothing.
Movie comes out. Harlan sues for stolen (but altered ) ideas.
Prevent the insanity. They did fine without him the 1st time.

208. dmduncan - November 25, 2009

200: “Those who keep asserting that there’s no reason to change the script team are arguing a moot point: the change has already been made. The question is whether adding another WGA award winner to the trio will add at least as much to the group as the one.”

Right. And it’s really up to them—the Supreme Court. The people who say no are afraid that Bob, Alex, Damon, and JJ would be like they are: wittew scarewty cats whose balls head north at the mere rumor that Harlan is riding into town.

The person who is afraid to listen is afraid to say no.

209. Trekenstein - November 25, 2009

#200 – you are correct the writing team has already been expanded. Now here’s something else to consider. I’m bringing this over from the Playmates article as many may not investigate it otherwise. However, the toys are selling poorly. But, Playmates expects the 2012 Star Trek sequel to be even more “toy friendly.”

Now, I’m wondering what have they heard that none of us have? Last I knew, there was no script, no ideas, no direction, only preliminary discussions. Sounds like internally they have been discussing how to make the next movie even more kid friendly. But of course the studio is not dictating any terms.

Perhaps Ellison will write some nice fuzzy “GuardianS of Forever”. ;-)

210. dmduncan - November 25, 2009

@206: The Supreme Court doesn’t “need” Ellison. They don’t “need” to monitor this blog either, but they do. So that’s a straw man argument nobody is making.

And what is this you are saying here:

“Ellison has positioned himself to bring suit against Paramount if they don’t hire him to consult and the writing team uses any idea that Ellison ever published.”

Oh, so you believe they DON’T need Ellison yet you still worry that they can get sued for using some of his material?

Seems to me you are the who is afraid this writing team can’t hatch a good idea without Ellison.

211. Trekenstein - November 25, 2009

#208, what is that – a dare? I’m certainly not afraid. I’m just saying it’s a bad idea. They can do what they want. But I have complete confidence they will write a film as good or better than the last one without any assistance from anyone. I mean if they’re gonna listen to Ellison, they should just line up great authors everywhere and take pitch meetings. Perhaps even make it a contest. I just fail to see the reverence for Ellison here, or what of any value he brings to the franchise at this point.

212. dmduncan - November 25, 2009

@211: “…line up great authors everywhere”? Are “great authors everywhere” expressing an interest in helping out with the sequel? Because that’s what THIS thread is about.

213. Gothos - November 25, 2009

Yes, I think Mr. Abrams will seek help from the man who called “Back to the Future” a piece of ****.

214. Brent - November 25, 2009

The infamous Paramount studio exec who asked that Ellison put in some Mayans was Barry Trabalus. It was never written down so probalbly Ellison and Trabalus (if he is still alive) know the story as GR is gone.

215. Civil Suit - November 25, 2009

After he admitted that he was only after the money…..more than NO!!!!!

216. Anthony Thompson - November 26, 2009

215. Civil Suit

So Paramount and the current team are in it for the art, not the money?

217. Anthony Thompson - November 26, 2009

Trekenstein asks somewhere above what Ellison would contribute. How about passion, ideas and creative juices? Probably not research. He would put the Trek script on the front burner, not the back of the stove where it’s been languishing for over 6 months.

218. Andy - November 26, 2009

I’m glad Ellison is around. He seems to be the only one in the industry who tells it like it is…it’s about the money. When it comes down to it people need to survive. The biggest way for people to do that now is through money. Now just because that’s the case it doesn’t mean we don’t get creative material. Writers work very hard coming up with the best story to entertain their audience.

If Ellison wants to “run his mouth” good on him. Why do we even care to comment on his actions? Is what he says affecting how we live our lives day in and day out? Is it our reputation that’s on the line? NO it’s his. Let him do his thing. Here’s a guy who wrote the best TOS episode and one of the best Star Trek episodes ever. He’s a writer who’s not afraid to take risks and even though I love Bob and Alex’s writing maybe we need some of Ellison’s “free spirited thinking” for ST:12.

Whatever happens, happens.

219. Trekenstein - November 26, 2009

#210 – The inferences are thick as quicksand around here. I’m saying I think Ellison would sue for the word “The” if he smelled money. Now he has inserted himself into the VERY SUCCESSFUL franchise that climbed back into the limelight without him, or anyone else connected with the series prior, and he’s suddenly settled his lawsuit with Paramount and thrown his hat back into the ring, when nobody asked him to – just like Shatner. And while this article is about Ellison offering his services, the question must be posed, why is Ellison so special – the fact that he offered? And should the Supreme Court entertain every offer which may arise from every author who may also decide to contribute to the success of Star Trek?

And what has Ellison written lately? As far as I can tell he hasn’t written an original work in over 10 years, nor has he written a script or screenplay in that time and what he has written previously has been primarily television scripts. While an old writer’s abilities are not comparable to a similar basketball player’s, there is something to be said for exercising a muscle or practicing a craft. The man has done nothing but sue people for over a decade, much less write a modern feature film screenplay. Is he really the best candidate to contribute anything to a new franchise at this point simply because he used to write good science fiction stories and knew Gene Roddenberry back in the day?

As for the fear factor, even suggesting Orci/Kurtzman/Lindelof should look at another writer to contribute to the script shows a fear that they aren’t capable of writing a good follow-up script without his, or someone else’s help. It demonstrates a complete lack of confidence in the new writers. Only those who cannot let go of the past would insist on such a ridiculous notion. I have no such irrational fears. I fully expect these writers are capable of producing as good a script without Ellison as they did for the first film, if not better. This has never been a question of whether Ellison could contribute good ideas to the film, but whether the current team needed him to. Only someone who questions their abilities and quality of the work on the current film would suggest they need Ellison’s, or anyone else’s input.

220. Trekenstein - November 26, 2009

Also, Ellsion never said anything about working with Orci & Kurtzman, much less Lindelof. He said he would jump at the chance to work with the inordinately-talented J.J. Abrams, going so far as to describe Abrams as “a writer” he respects, though Abrams had nothing to do with writing the film’s script. He said nothing about endorsing the work of Orci & Kurtzman. For all we know, Ellison could have hated the wildly successful script and story and that is exactly why he is offering his services to Abrams, aside from the fame, fortune and, did I mention the money?

221. Chris Fawkes - November 26, 2009

Nothing wrong with the guy wanting to be paid. Getting it all in the contract should be enough to make sure all parties are agreed re what Harlan is entitled to.

He could really bring something substantial to the next film. The new Trek film was great but wether the writers have the edge to make the second film the equivalent of The Dark Knight re substance and story telling gold is in doubt.

I don’t say that as a negative. I think they could deliver as good and i am grateful for the new vision. And perhaps i am wrong. But with no ego in the equation would it not be wise to bring someone like Ellinson to the table, even for initial story ideas.

222. Holger - November 26, 2009

Harlan Ellison is a great SF writer but he’s difficult to work with.
There’s a better option if JJ needs help from someone who unlike himself does understand Star Trek: Manny Coto.

223. Scott - November 26, 2009

No thanks. Star Trek is in great hands right now. They don’t need him.

224. DesiluTrek - November 26, 2009

How can Orci et. al. not at least hear what Ellison might have to offer, even if it costs a modest fee upfront? His role in the legacy of Star Trek has earned him that much, wouldn’t you say? Some “fans” here sound very hard-hearted. “City on the Edge of Forever” is my favorite single episode and considered the greatest by many others, too. (I believe the rewrites made it better still, more true to Trek.)

That said, I would like to know from Ellison why he is clearly looking the other way at the storytelling flaws of the movie to heap praise on Abrams, even knocking Gene Roddenberry in the process. Is this the same Ellison who famously blasted TMP in Starlog back in 1980? Ellison’s own excellent BS detector should go off at the contradiction.

Ultimately for me, if having Harlan Ellison aboard makes the new powers-that-be comfortable in being able to use the Guardian of Forever as the device that allows them to go back and save Vulcan and Amanda, I am all for it!

225. P Technobabble - November 26, 2009

There are FAR WORSE people in the world than Harlan Ellison, who are having a FAR MORE negative effect on the world. I do not understand some of the venom being spit at him.
Not a single “official” word has been uttered in this debate, other than Ellison making some off-hand remark that he’d like to work with Abrams.
Are we all that addicted to drama?

226. dmduncan - November 26, 2009

219: Red herrings and straw men. Now you want to trot off into irrelevant hypotheticals…what happens if great authors crawl out of the woodwork all clamoring to help? Just stick with reality and what’s actually happening right here and now.

Whether you call it a fear, a concern, or whatever, you contradict your own claim of confidence in the writers by suggesting they’ll open themselves up to a lawsuit by Ellison if they use some of his ideas. Why would they be using Ellison’s ideas sans Ellison in the first place unless they really can’t think of their own and don’t want to give him any credit for a contribution he made?

That was what YOU said, not me; I wouldn’t be heartened by that sort of “confidence.” I have no concerns they’ll be exposing themselves to a lawsuit by listening to him. I think that suggestion is insulting to the writers.

My position is simple: Ellison is a master story teller not a chatboard opinionaire.

Something he suggests may inspire a passionate new idea that they will WANT to do. And it’s very clear that Bob really wants to do something special for the sequel, which is why they will be looking at classic SF; they aren’t trying to just crank out a script in time for such and such a date and make some money.

And all public indications are that they haven’t decided much of anything on the story yet, so this is the moment, the moment before ideas have hardened into decisions, to listen to ideas.

And you are wrong: This is not an issue about whether they need him. That’s a straw man. I’ve never said or suggested that they need him or can’t do it on their own, any more than I suggested they need Damon Lindelof’s writing help. But there’s Damon, on the team now, anyway, so it’s really up to them to decide what they need and do not need.

The issue is being open minded enough to listen to what a master storyteller who knows the franchise, who has been it’s single greatest writing contributor, and who has offered to help has to say. That simple.

And to even post a question like, well what has Harlan done for the world of SF lately? Use your Google button if you are that uninformed about what makes Harlan Ellison so special. To ask that of someone who has done what Harlan has done to prove himself yet again, that is beyond the pale. The man is still passionate and sharp, and if he feels a new story coming on, that’s the only thing that matters.

The only problem I see is this: I think the supreme court can work with Ellison, but I’m not sure Harlan Ellison can work with them.

And he would HAVE to work with THEM, because as I said, no one is getting bumped from their seats on the flight to make room for Harlan Ellison.

That’s another non-issue.

Finally of interest is the recent news that Harlan is not the only one with a claim against James Cameron; io9 recently posted a story about how similar Avatar is to a SF story written by Poul Anderson, who is too dead to sue. Right now it seems Avatar is a combination of Call Me Joe and Dances With Wolves.


227. M G B - November 26, 2009

H E belongs in the past every bit as much as H P Lovecraft. HE was fine for his time, but now it’s over.

Larry Niven wrote the ultimate “final” episode for Star Trek that he’s been offering to sell for 40 years. It’s funny, it’s canon, and it’s as true to Trek as anything Gar & Judy R-S have ever written. AND it would have been better than Generations. Larry has finally gotten to the point that the story is offered free on the internet for anyone to read.

IF IF IF someday JJ & Co. are “fired” as they joke about in the commentary of ST09, then they can pay Niven a small fee and film his Death of Star Trek.

228. dmduncan - November 26, 2009

226: “H E belongs in the past every bit as much as H P Lovecraft.”

100 % hyperbole. Like every person living, we ALL belong SIMULTANEOUSLY to the past and present. Don’t believe me? Try getting HP Lovecraft to deliver a story pitch.

229. Capes - November 26, 2009

#227 Don’t believe me? Try getting HP Lovecraft to deliver a story pitch.

So H.E. is alive so that makes him more relevant…..got it.

You can accomplish a lot more in life with honey than vinegar. Ellison is a very sour individual in his public persona. At this point in his life more people perceive him as a duplicitous writer with an ongoing litigious agenda. In short, while people may or may not like his writing, it pales to the fact that this man seems to always be polishing up a new way that he has been screwed over, and why everyone else sucks.

Having said that, this has been an enjoyable thread. Thanks for posting it Anthony, and Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

230. dmduncan - November 26, 2009

228: “So H.E. is alive so that makes him more relevant…..got it.”

Merely being alive doesn’t make him more relevant; still being talented, sharp, and passionate does. Three qualities I don’t think either HP Lovecraft or anyone else who belongs exclusively to the past still have.

231. Trekenstein - November 26, 2009

#225 – it amazes me that you can accuse me of trotting out straw men and red herrings, then infer such wild deductions from my words. You are the only person who suggested Orci/Kurtzman would get sued for using an idea of Ellisons. There are no new ideas, only variations of the same old ones freshened up for a new audience. My statement was more of jab that Ellison would sue over the mere appearance that they used something he said to them, like “the Enterprise visits a planet”, including the use of the word “the” (had you actually read my earlier post). The fact you would beat this into and twist that to be an indication of my fear that Orci & Kurtzman are incapable of writing a new script by themselves is one of the bigger straw men I have seen propped up around here.

If they seriously entertain this guy then I will truly lose confidence in them.

And consider this if you will: how do you say “no” to a living legend who volunteers to work on your movie? Well how do you say “no” to that same legend after he pitches you an idea you don’t want to use. How do you finally tell that same person, “thanks, but no thanks” when they fail to mesh with your style and vision, especially knowing anything he might mention in that meeting that you had already thought of doing in the first place, might become the subject of a lawsuit with such a litigious man?

232. Capes - November 26, 2009

#229 Merely being alive doesn’t make him more relevant; still being talented, sharp, and passionate does. Three qualities I don’t think either HP Lovecraft or anyone else who belongs exclusively to the past still have.

Ok….I know I am spliting hairs, but they belong exclusively to the past because they are dead.

I refer to my previous testimony !

Happy Thanksgiving

233. dmduncan - November 26, 2009

Happy Thanksgiving.

Another possibility is that Harlan could help out in the role of sounding board, advisor. Rather than writing, he could challenge and push this writing team to be even better; and that’s a role he’s played before.

And that’s not a slight to the writers. I do my best work when I am challenged, pushed by other people, and if the views of others were not important, Bob and Alex wouldn’t be considering what these boards say.

As a sounding board the finished product would still be Bob, Alex, and Damon’s writing, but if they followed his advice it would be nudged a bit in this direction or that by the master story teller himself.

And one of the reasons I say Harlan’s work will be remembered is because he’s not a SF writer, actually. His work transcends categories like that—as Star Trek’s best episodes did. And Star Trek is not hard SF, so it would be nice to see a genre transcending influence on the old franchise again.

234. Capes - November 26, 2009


Good points. I don’t disagree with any of them.

But I still question his intent.

Gotta go eat more and take a nap now…….

235. dmduncan - November 26, 2009

206: “My statement was more of jab that Ellison would sue over the mere appearance that they used something he said to them, like “the Enterprise visits a planet”, including the use of the word “the” (had you actually read my earlier post).”

Har de har har. Ellison sues Paramount over the uncredited use of the word “the.” Excuse me for taking you seriously in 206.

And which earlier post are you referring to? I read 170, 173, and 195 as well, none of which modifies your meaning in 206.

If you need any clarification on what I said, you can reread 210 or 225. No need to repeat it all again.

“You are the only person who suggested Orci/Kurtzman would get sued for using an idea of Ellisons.”

Really? YOUR entire post—Exhibit A:

206. Trekenstein – November 25, 2009

#197. I read a lot of inferences. I on the other hand infer a lack of confidence in the current writing team that they would need Ellison to come up with a good story.

But you raise a good point. Ellison has positioned himself to bring suit against Paramount if they don’t hire him to consult and the writing team uses any idea that Ellison ever published.

Recall, #197 in the above quote is my own post; now, my OWN words from 225:

“I have no concerns they’ll be exposing themselves to a lawsuit by listening to him. I think that suggestion is insulting to the writers.”

Who suggested the supreme court could be sued for using Ellison’s ideas and who wasn’t worried about it? Do refresh my memory. The record isn’t clear enough.

236. Greg2600 - November 26, 2009

Frankly, if you want to have someone from TOS writing help out, I’d go for D.C. Fontana or David Gerrold.

237. Trekenstein - November 26, 2009

#235 – what about my statements isn’t clear? Merely reprinting them only takes up bandwidth. Ellison has published a lot of things. As I clearly stated elsewhere, like many, many prolific writers, Ellison has probably covered every idea ever thought up in some novel way or another. If Abrams uses any of those ideas, by example something as trivial as the word “the” (and no NOT literally), then Ellison will be in a position to sue, whether the writers actually borrowed from him or not. I NEVER suggested the writers would NEED to steal from Ellison. You were the one who inferred that giant leap in logic in #210. What I clearly posted was that Ellison has put himself in the position to do it and he has a history of doing it. He could even spout off a common idea in an interview and sue if it turns up in the film, like so many common ideas including the word “the”. (and NO not literally – it’s a joke) And you are right. The record is crystal clear. But thanks for all the attention you have given me for your misunderstanding over an essentially meaningless opinion.

238. dmduncan - November 26, 2009

@237: “But thanks for all the attention you have given me for your misunderstanding over an essentially meaningless opinion.”

First, you are welcome. I’m not elitist. Second, nope. I didn’t misunderstand anything you WROTE. But I will grant that you may not be good at expressing what you really THINK.

What I said in all my posts on this thread stands, and I can defend anything you want to parse, but if you regard your posted opinion as meaningless, there’s nothing more I want to add to what you’ve said.

I don’t express my opinions if I think they are meaningless, but I’m happy to let you tell others what you think of yours.

239. Anthony Thompson - November 26, 2009

Trekenstein has been called out – haha!

As for Harlan, he would give us true science fiction. He would not give us lines such as these: “Are there sandwiches in the future?” and “Can I get a towel?”. ’nuff said.

240. Capes - November 26, 2009

Trekenstein / dmduncan,

It is time to agree that if Ellison accomplishes nothing else…..he does ellicit spirited debate. Time to agree on two things”

1)dmduncan: Likes Ellison
2)trekenstein: Doesn’t like Ellison so much

Let’s talk about my needs for a moment…..I Think Ellison doesn’t go to sleep at night without an agenda !

Ain’t it a great country that we can spend time debating such details?!?

Happy Thanksgiving ALL!

241. Jovan - November 26, 2009

Harlan Ellison may be talented, but he’s got a serious attitude problem.

242. somethoughts - November 26, 2009

Harlan would give us a wicked cop show in space, in the lines of, “the departed” Starring Kirk and Khan as 2 planted moles trying to discover and outwit each other and the Klingon mob leader as Jack Nicholson. Pike can be the only “cop” who knows Kirks true identity.

Star Trek: “Infernal Affairs”

243. Zebonka - November 26, 2009

People are comparing him to Asimov, Clarke?????

Come on folks. He wrote a decent story that got rewritten into a great episode … and has acted like a persecuted wretch ever since!

244. 790 - November 26, 2009

He sounds desperate and crazy,,,

245. Harry Ballz - November 26, 2009

Ellison? No way!

246. Chris_of_ODU - November 27, 2009

I’ve tried to read just about all the comments.

I’m slightly dismayed by some of them who continue to speak mis-truths about Ellison, “City” and even other contributors to Trek (Fontana and Coon especially).

1. “City” won the 1968 Hugo Award for the ORIGINAL script – not the transmitted one.
2. Scotty was not “dealing drugs” as Roddenberry loved to tout for years and years. Just one in a long line of Roddenberry embellishments. He practically took all the positive creative credit from Gene Coon – the guy that really shaped the series.
3. People deserve what they deserve. If some faceless corporation is keeping the money that you earned from you, you sue. If you win the case or if it’s settled out of court because they *do* owe you money then justice is served. It doesn’t matter if you’re a jerk.
4. “Soldier” and “Demon with a Glass Hand” bear striking similarities to The Terminator. It’s not just “they used time travel.” Ellison won the case. I’m not sure if people are mad because he went up against James Cameron and had the gall to actually *win* the case or if it’s something else.

Ellison is one of the best modern writers in the industry. He has a temper, he keeps grudges. But look at the industry – full of “crooks,” petty people and people who are bigger a-holes than Ellison. I don’t want to come across as only supporting Ellison, but I’m sick and tired of the “Scotty Dealing Drugs” Roddenberry-parroting and the “I can’t believe he had the balls to sue James Cameron” lines I *always* hear whenever his name is brought up.

Is he right for the new film? I don’t know. I certainly don’t think the writing styles of Orci/Kurtzman would meld well with Ellison but it’d be interesting to see what kind of story that kind of story Ellison could conjure up. Hire him as a consultant (he’s done it before). Let them pay him what they promise him and they’ll be set.

247. Jim Nightshade - November 27, 2009

Actually Camerons Avatar plot sound a lot like star trek insurrection-but again these days not many new ideas exist anymore-if ellisons original city script had drug dealers in it as well as the enterprise trying convicting and executing crew members none of that was ever in tos or grs utopian concepts of trek so even if it makes trek edgier it was not the trek gr was making–what were more examples of soldiers n demon w a glass hand similarities to terminator? I remember them as great outer limits episodes but dont remember details-i will have too dig em out and rewatch em–Ellison does know trek but so do mr orci and jjs supreme court-do they need his ideas? I remember disney made a movie called watcher in the woods-they were gonna use cgi for the ending but was too artificial looking back then-they solicited ideas from many writers including ellison i believe so maybe if the supreme ct get stuck they can solicit ellisons help-

248. Anthony Thompson - November 27, 2009

246. Chris of O_D_U

I’m a vociferous supporter of Harlan (see my various posts above). However, your Roddenberry-bashing above is off the mark. Roddenberry’s revision of Harlan’s script improved it (I’ve read both) and made it hew more closely to the TOS ethos.

Further, Harlan made unfair and untrue accusations about the whole matter of the script revision in his book on the subject. Any fair-minded reader of the book would come to the same conclusuion. Ellison’s arguments were not “logical”. I believe that Roddenberry bent over backwards to do right by Ellison’s script, which he realized was great. The production values were probably the highest of any produced TOS script. Roddenberry spent the money to ensure the outstanding episode which is revered to this day.

RE: The Roddenberry – Coon comments. Those are laughable. The entire framework, design and cast of TOS was in place LONG before Coon ever came on board. Coon helped flesh it out like any story editor would do. But Roddenberry created or oversaw perhaps 90% of what Star Trek is today. The rest, including Coon, Solow and Justman, etc. were important *contributors* of roughly equal standing.

249. Captain Dunsel - November 27, 2009

Star Trek has always spoken to a positive and effervescent future for mankind. Whatever exceptional content may be present in his writings, Ellison seems to me to essay the qualities humanity has rejected by the 23rd century. It seems that vulgar, angry, bitter folks like Mr. Ellison are first and foremost what we need to evolve beyond before humanity can ever become what Star Trek foretells.

The ushers will now pass the collection plates.

250. Trekenstein - November 27, 2009

#238 – Don’t be intentionally obtuse. You wrote in #208. “it’s really up to them—the Supreme Court.”

That makes this whole debate meaningless. It makes your opinion meaningless as well as mine in context of this article. Obviously you realized that in order to make that observation. In fact most opinions expressed in these forums are moot before they are even posted for that very reason.

But instead of focusing on the relevant points of the opinions being discussed you seem more inclined to debate semantics. It is a diversionary tactic used to discredit dissenting views, and one that benefits no one.

#240. Capes – “Let’s talk about my needs for a moment…..” – LOL funny. You are so right. I am sorry I allowed myself to get dragged into it. You are right nobody wants to see it. And I agree, what a country we live in where President Bill Clinton proved we have the luxury of debating what the meaning of the word “is” is.

251. Al - November 27, 2009

Poisonous midget

252. dmduncan - November 27, 2009

250: “But instead of focusing on the relevant points of the opinions being discussed you seem more inclined to debate semantics. It is a diversionary tactic used to discredit dissenting views, and one that benefits no one.”

This ain’t the first time I had to skin a weasel, bud, so don’t insult me. It just fires me up even more.

First, I don’t have to discredit you. Your own words which contradict each other do that without any help from me.

You accused me of not reading your posts. BS. I read every one of them.

And then you make factually untrue statements and dare to say I’m practicing diversionary tactics? Don’t flatter yourself. Your arguments are not brilliantly spurious enough to make me forget myself and commit blatant fallacies to save face, even if that were the sort of thing I did, rather than just admitting I was wrong, which is a far more likely thing for me to do.

I’ve addressed each idea I disagreed with that you proposed directly and sufficiently. It wasn’t hard. All this that we’re doing now is because you think you can say things that are false—and about me—and be allowed to slide on it.

Let’s review. I’m sure the bandwidth you were concerned about earlier as an excuse for NOT reading your own words back to you, can take it.

Trekenstein @ 231: “You are the only person who suggested Orci/Kurtzman would get sued for using an idea of Ellisons.”

Really? The “only person”? Consider this:

Trekenstein @ 206: “Ellison has positioned himself to bring suit against Paramount if they don’t hire him to consult and the writing team uses any idea that Ellison ever published.”

I’m assuming you know what “only” means. But wait. Not only am I clearly NOT the “only person” to suggest they would get sued—which makes what you said 100 % false—I am not even ONE of a NUMBER of those persons to make that suggestion.

Quite the opposite.

Now dmduncan @ 225: “I have no concerns they’ll be exposing themselves to a lawsuit by listening to him. I think that suggestion is insulting to the writers.”

Not even ONCE did I make the claim they could get sued. Not. Even. Once. If anybody is misunderstanding anything around these parts, it’s you, pardner. Go ahead. Find any of my posts here where I expressed the opinion that they could get sued. I DARE you to find it.

You told a flat out piece of BS.

I never said that at all. And I dare you to show otherwise. Here’s what I think you’ll find is a complete list of my posts on this thread to make it easy for you: 30, 42, 45, 65, 79, 82,191,194,197, 208, 210, 212, 226, 228, 230, 233, 235, 238.

So put up or shut up. I don’t run from BS, and you told a piece of it about me. So in which one of those posts did I say the writers could get sued for using Harlan’s material?

I’ll tell you where it shows up: in # 206, written by YOU, which is what I’d been responding to in DISagreement all along AFTERWARDS. Get it? YOUR post made the suggestion, NOT mine.

Finally, you really ought to watch yourself on all them inferences, cause they’re doing you more harm than good:

250: “That makes this whole debate meaningless. It makes your opinion meaningless as well as mine in context of this article. Obviously you realized that in order to make that observation. In fact most opinions expressed in these forums are moot before they are even posted for that very reason.”

Nah nah nah nah nah. Speak for yourself, buddy, ’cause I don’t regard an opinion as meaningless if it isn’t taken. If it’s given somebody pause to consider the point expressed, then it’s had some meaningful purpose, even if it’s not followed. So you call YOUR opinions meaningless. I don’t feel that way about mine. The things I’ve said are on the record and can be read at any time, which means their meaning is preserved and meaning can be found in them anytime someone reads them—and that’s true EVEN IF the reader is not persuaded.

I’ve made a case for why they should consider Ellison’s offer, and even if the reasons are rejected by Bob and Alex and Damon and JJ, I’ve expressed those ideas in an intelligent enough way, I think, as to be worth considering, and that gives them meaning enough to make it worthwhile to me to do.

253. Capes - November 27, 2009

dmduncan /Trekenstein,

Time to stop weasel skinning! We can now have a leather bound edition of your discussion because it just keeps going. NEW TOPIC: Why Star Wars sucks vs. Star Trek . ( Anthony make it happen! ) Discuss !

Again, as a reminder…..we need to discuss my needs. Just as we did when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, we must take this time to pause and reflect!

Now: CRY HAVOC! …..and let slip the dogs of WAR ! Translation: Make nice and lets move on.

254. dmduncan - November 27, 2009

Capes, I think my record is somewhere up in the # 800’s.

This is me in repose.

255. Capes - November 27, 2009

#254 Beats me by about 750

Understood !

256. dmduncan - November 27, 2009

But do appreciate your humor.

257. Capes - November 27, 2009


258. Cheap Cigars - November 28, 2009

They could have really used Ellison on the last few tv series. The entire franchise had gone stale. Ellison would have given them the kick in the ass they needed to break out of the rut they were in.

259. Trekenstein - November 28, 2009

#252 – good for you.

#253 – I agree, Ellison doesn’t go to sleep at night without an agenda, or as Fred Thompson so eloquently performed in The Hunt For Red October: “Russians don’t take a dump, son, without a plan.” So too with Ellison. He has interjected himself into a situation that does not concern him, completely uninvited to the party, and let his fans become his advocates to achieve his goal. The only question that hasn’t been addressed here is why? Why does Ellison want to be involved with Star Trek, now that it is more successful and profitable than it has ever been before? Where was he when Star Trek was barely scraping by and actually needed his help? If they didn’t need him then, they surely don’t need him now.

260. Commodore Lurker - November 28, 2009

Decloaking . . .
It would take Ellison to make JJ Trek interesting.
Recloaking. }:-D>

261. dmduncan - November 28, 2009

259: “Where was he when Star Trek was barely scraping by and actually needed his help? If they didn’t need him then, they surely don’t need him now.”

You certainly can’t ask that question about his role in the Sixties, when it was “barely scraping by,” and Gene Roddenberry asked him to help save the show and he did help, even AFTER he was pissed at Roddenberry for rewriting his script rather than letting him handle the rewrites himself as he was promised he would be allowed to do.

And it’s so funny how Harlan has become this Star Trek universe bad guy character. Just clone him enough and he could become the franchise’s greatest onscreen villain.

262. Harlan Holsters Lawyer Daggett, At Least Temporarily « File 770 - November 28, 2009

[…] That scene comes to mind every time I read about Harlan Ellison announcing that he’s been done wrong and is about to lower the legal boom. For example, Trekmovie.com gives knows this has gone on for years: […]

263. ME!! - November 28, 2009

Uh, there’s no “hell no” response on the poll.

Seriously, this guy has done nothing for the last 40 years, but complain about how his story for Star Trek was “ruined” and in the same breath he claims credit for its popularity. Which is it Harlan? You can’t have it both ways.

He’s a grouchy, bitter old man who apparently wants one last claim to fame before he croaks besides being the “guy who wrote City on the Edge of Forever”.

I’ve read his original story. It was good, but it wasn’t Star Trek. That’s precisely why it was rewritten. The biggest flaw in his original version is the characterizations are wrong. It was felt by Roddenberry and co. that Kirk would not give up his ship, his crew and jeopardize the future for a woman (which he does in Harlan’s version; it’s McCoy who stops Kirk from saving Edith Keeler instead of the other way around). The Enterprise was his ‘lady’ and he would stop at nothing to save her and his crew as he was portrayed in the series even that early in its run (first season). The character, the way Harlan wrote him in the original version, wasn’t Kirk. I agree 100%. That was also standard procedure on a television series with contributing writers. The material turned in often had to be rewritten to fit in with the concepts and characterizations in the series. That’s one reason why the production crew on The Next Generation had a “bible” for prospective writers to consult telling them what they could and could not do and had a full description of each of the seven main characters.

264. ME!! - November 28, 2009

Incidentally, all of you who defend him and/or support him, you do realize how much the guy has publicly insulted everyone from Star Trek fans to Star Wars fans and that includes all of you. Anything he doesn’t personally like, he trashes and all the fans that go with it. If he doesn’t think it’s great, it sucks. Period. There is no tolerance for differing opinions in the world of Harlan. In that dark and foreboding place, the only opinion that matters is Harlan’s and Harlan had all the original ideas that everyone else has since ripped off.

He’s the Ebenezer Scrooge of science fiction. Now, if only the three ghosts would show up…

265. Michael English - November 28, 2009

Wow. Hearing you people talk, you’d never guess that Ellison is responsible for making Star Trek so memorable in the first place.

More to the point, how many of you have actually read his work? I have. He is consistently better than most of the writers you’ll find on any given bestseller list. Try reading The Spider’s Kiss, or The Man Who Rode Christopher Columbus Ashore. Or ANY of Edgeworks.

Oh yeah, and Babylon 5? That series that should have been no more than a cheap knock-off of DS9? He and JM Straczinski made it what it was.

266. marbpl - December 2, 2009

246. Chris_of_ODU —
I’m pretty sure that the version of CITY that won the Hugo award was the televised one. Ellison’s original won the 1966-67 Writers Guild of America award for best teleplay.

267. DigitalLonestarX - December 6, 2009

bash it for 40 years because he never got paid. then is happy because he wins a lawsuit. hes not in it for the love of trek, hes only in it now cuz he wants the money it’s making,

my freind your now a hasbeen, go back to the closet. and stay there

– DigitalLonestarX

268. T'Cal - December 8, 2009

95. Nuallain – November 25, 2009

To try and be the voice of reason a bit…

Whether or not Ellison is a good writer, or whether he’s right, or wrong, in any court cases he’s taken in the past (or even whether or not his general litigious nature is appropriate or not).

Purely from an EMPLOYERS point of view (which is how Paramount will have to be looking at it) the fact that Ellison (rightly or wrongly) has a perceived history of ‘not playing well with others’ and the fact that he aggressively sues whenever he (rightly or wrongly) perceives an idea as ‘his’ probably makes it a non-starter.

Particularly since he wants pay (and thus some form of contract) from the very first meeting. That means, effectively, that WHATEVER HE SAYS, no matter how generic or obvious, in that meeting could form the basis of a lawsuit if something similar shows up in the movie.

I don’t think that’s a risk that would be very sensible for anyone in Bad Robot or Paramount’s shoes to take.

What he said!

269. T'Cal - December 8, 2009

If by chance The Shat is involved in the next film, there won’t be room enough for both his and Ellison’s heads on one sound stage.

270. M. OWENS - February 4, 2010


271. Kasha Halfmann - April 21, 2011

I am curious to find out what blog system you’re utilizing? I’m experiencing some small security problems with my latest site and I’d like to find something more safeguarded. Do you have any suggestions?

272. Asa Sobeski - April 21, 2011

Howdy! I know this is kinda off topic but I was wondering if you knew where I could get a captcha plugin for my comment form? I’m using the same blog platform as yours and I’m having trouble finding one? Thanks a lot!

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